Sony Marketing Man Tweets PS3 Master Key

An anonymous reader writes "Sony Marketing Man, Kevin Butler's official Twitter feed retweets a post by @exiva that posts the PS3 Master key. Kevin Butler who has over 69,000 followers tweet read (The tweet now deleted): '@TheKevinButler Lemme guess... you sank my Battleship? RT @exiva: 46 DC EA D3 17 FE 45 D8 09 23 EB 97 E4 95 64 10 D4 CD B2 C2 Come at me, @TheKevinButler'" Here is a screenshot of the tweet.

Comments

Well, this just goes to show ...

[krzysz00]

... why marketing should hold all the crypto keys. They leak accidentally. The IT nerds leak would probably leak "accidentally", if they ever got this stuff.

Re:Well, this just goes to show ...

[Nadaka]

69000 new IPs to subpoena?

Re:Well, this just goes to show ...

[jemtallon]

http://search.dilbert.com/comic/Marketing%20Liquor

Re:Well, this just goes to show ...

[grantek]

From what I can tell, the marketing team did in fact implement the security in the PS3...

I think

[redemtionboy]

Sony is just farking with us now. That or all future games are going to have online-connection necessary DRM. Xbox 360 and Wii were cracked ages ago, yet only Sony is behaving like a 2-year old about it.

Re:I think

[drunkennewfiemidget]

First the rootkit, now this. It's not difficult to boycott Sony for me.

Re:I think

[Zelgadiss]

Then just do.

I keep see people like you posting in Sony related news threads.

What does it matter to you if you are boycotting them already?

Re:I think

[SighKoPath]

Raising awareness of a boycott and getting more people in on it makes it a much more effective boycott.

Re:I think

[Zelgadiss]

Can't be helped.

If console makers give up on securing their consoles with these fairly non-intrusive DRM and leave their consoles wide open like the PC, it's only common sense to expect PC like DRM from games.

Even if Sony, Big-N and MS does nothing to enforce copy protection, the game publishers will add their own.

IMO it's kind of a pick your poison situation.
Have the console maker do it via locking down their console or have the game publishers make a crazy mess of it.

Re:I think

[Zelgadiss]

Fair enough.

Re:I think

[redemtionboy]

Microsoft has handled the situation appropriately, by putting in fixes and banning consoles and user accounts that break the EULA by hacking the system. Such behavior doesn't end piracy (something that is impossible to do, See: The Fallacy of Perfect Security), it only makes it less convenient, but it doesn't get in the way of honest individuals who purchase content fairly. I fully support Microsoft's behavior as it is a much more reasonable response that keeps both gamers and studios as happy as possible. It may not be as ideal to me as a consumer who wants to do what I want with the console and run homebrew and custom hacks on it, but it never gets in the way of me using the console as Microsoft presented it when I purchased it.

Re:I think

[The MAZZTer]

Nintendo keeps patching the Wii to block homebrew attempts calling them "stability updates" and blocking use of the Wii Shop until you update for no good reason. So they're not much better. Sony's Other OS option seemed to make everyone happy though, and I only started hearing about the PS3 being broken after that option was removed. If all consoles had something like that I bet piracy would go down just because people developing homebrew wouldn't have to punch holes that pirates can crawl through.

Re:I think

[Zelgadiss]

I don't keep up on 360 hacks but to my knowledge MS didn't have their signing key compromised though.

The only hacks I know of are messing with the DVD drive to play pirated games. Has anyone really gotten homebrew to run on that thing?

by putting in fixes and banning consoles and user accounts that break the EULA by hacking the system

I believe Sony would have fix it if they could - they did it with the PSP and the various hacks (etc the first PSP hack that exploited a bug in the TIFF viewer lib).
With the signing key in the wild, custom firmware that can evade detection won't be hard. Banning will be of limited effectiveness.

Re:I think

[Zelgadiss]

If all consoles had something like that I bet piracy would go down just because people developing homebrew wouldn't have to punch holes that pirates can crawl through.

In theory, that is.

See Geohot.

Re:I think

[redemtionboy]

Right, but that actually is much better, because it doesn't get in the way of you using the Wii as Nintendo sold it to you. If I never crack my Wii, I never notice any issues. Sony is making it inconvenient for you to use the PS3 no matter what you do. Hacking should come with certain risks and understandings that this is not what the manufacturer intended it to be used as, but that's the game and most of us that do so understand that going into it. Running homebrew and pirated copies of games is in general counter-productive to the business model these companies have set up. Now granted I'm not saying I agree with that model, and it should change, but it is what it is, and it is never inconvenient to someone who just purchases a Wii/Xbox 360 and never breaks the EULA.

Re:I think

[DrXym]

Where "now this" is preventing the PS3 being used to play pirate games.

Perhaps you should make a stand by buying a 360 or Wii instead, where they welcome pirates with open arms. Or not.

Re:I think

[DrXym]

And Sony will likely be doing pretty much the same as Microsoft. Surreptitious checks for mods when you sign in or play certain games. I doubt they'd give a crap about mods if it were just some guy wanting to install XBMC or an MKV player. Reality says it's because 99.9% of mods will be used to facilitate piracy. So obviously they're treating it seriously. The whole drivel about a "backdoor" last week was probably preparation for an additional challenge / response step during PSN signon.

Re:I think

[slapout]

"If all consoles had something like that I bet piracy would go down just because people developing homebrew wouldn't have to punch holes that pirates can crawl through."

The XBox360 seems to help your argument. They have a program in place to let homebrew developers write for the console -- and as far as I know, the 360 hasn't been hacked yet. Of course, it could be that they just have better security than the others.

Re:I think

[hackwrench]

What exclusive? http://www.google.com/#q=xbox+360+Final+Fantasy

Re:I think

[arth1]

One thing is denying access to services if the user doesn't follow the EULA.
Another thing entirely is to modify the user's system if he doesn't follow the EULA.

Technically and logically, that's no different from end-users modifying and disabling the manufacturers servers if they find the manufacturer in violation of an agreement.

Re:I think

[feepness]

but it never gets in the way of me using the console as Microsoft presented it when I purchased it.

Exactly. Don't expect Linux to ever be presented on a console again. Ever.

Re:I think

[Nursie]

I think they gave up on that. They have released homebrew-blocking updates several times but the latest version of the firmware has been out and compromised for a long time now.

With the Wii it's actually quite involved to get games running off the HD, involving multiple steps, multiple component installs, and you need to start with one of about 3 possible games that contain a glitch (there was a gameless one, but that got patched).

The ps3 is different in that respect - install custom firmware, install game manager, away you go.

It'll be interesting to see what happens to the 'scene' now that the firmware has been updated again and PSN usage is blocked. I suspect it will probably wither down to a small core of people that either care a lot about homebrew or care a lot about piracy.

Until/unless the new firmware is compromised. And with all the major players on the wrong end of a lawsuit at the moment it's probably going to stay quiet for a while.

Re:I think

[commodore6502]

>>>I keep see people like you posting in Sony related news threads.

If people have the right to say "I love my PS3" or "I heart Sony" then other people have the Equal right to say, "I boycott Sony." That's how free speech works - both positive AND negative thoughts get expressed.

Re:I think

[perryizgr8]

Sony is making it inconvenient for you to use the PS3 no matter what you do.

how am i inconvenienced if i never run a pirated game, or try to hack ps3 to run homebrew software (something it was never supposed to do)?

Re:I think

[Nursie]

Meh, vaio are good, but not the only decent laptop.

The tvs are expensive compared to the likes of Samsung

There's honestly not much to pick between Xbox and PS3 IMHO.

DS and derivatives have WAAAAY more market than PSP...

In the current market, you can easily get away from Sony products without much compromise.

Re:I think

[Mister Whirly]

Except for the fact that boycotts against major corporations are rarely effective at all. Sony stocks are up about $10 from where they were at a low last July. And over the last 10 years (people have been talking boycott of Sony for years now) the price of the stock has hit a high of $80(2001) and a low of $17(2009) and is currently at about $35 a share.

Re:I think

[hedwards]

Making those sorts of blatant false dichotomies isn't really helping your case. Some of us genuinely want to be able to do whatever we like with our PS3s, and I don't think that other people pirating material makes it any less reasonable to expect to exercise some control over our own property.

Re:I think

[redemtionboy]

Removal of features like install otherOS and online connection required DRM in several games.

Re:I think

[hedwards]

Appropriate? If they're damaging the end users console by taking away features and preventing it from being fully utilized then no, it's not appropriate and MS should be sued. You can't just ban consoles because you don't like what the owner was choosing to do with it.

Re:I think

[Lumpy]

It's hard for me. the ONLY pro video editing app out there that is worth a damn for the pc platform is Sony Vegas. The adobe garbage is a great toy for amateurs, but when you shoot with pro AVCHD cameras sony vegas is the only choice on the PC. I would love to go bac kto mac and Final Cut, but I cant justify $5800.00 for the computer alone. I can buy a super high end Generic PC from dell + sony Vegas pro + another pro AVCHD camera for the price of JUST the Apple tower.

Re:I think

[Lumpy]

Best pro Video? yes sony.

Best consumer? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Panasonic or LG Plasmas and LCD's blow the doors off of sony in fact LG utterly owns by continuing to have rs232 control for those of us that have real home theater setups (crestron,AMX,Control4), Sony BLuRay players are bottom of the barrel. Sony Vao pc's and laptops are craptastic compared to panasonic, toshiba, lenovo, and even dell.. they are better than HP, but even ASUS is better than HP.

There is NOTHING Sony has that is "better" even in headphones sony is utter crap compared to senheiser and other brands that are known for levels of quality that sony wished they could achieve.

Re:I think

[Zelgadiss]

If you are referring to "Other OS", it's not targeting specific users because of EULA violations, it was patching of a "security" hole that effected all users.

Sony probably rather not do it, but it was either that or let people like Geohot do what they want with the hypervisor.
Game developers will not be happy, neither will gamers when they see rampant cheating online - both are their main source of income BTW.

They picked their poison, and frankly I don't blame them for the choice they made.

Re:I think

[Lumpy]

Someone did not take his lithium this morning...

Re:I think

[samjam]

If you boycott something properly you have to talk about it 8 million times. It's no good boycotting quietly.

Re:I think

[Zelgadiss]

As I said, in reply to the previous poster, "Fair enough.".

Was just puzzled why you would care so much that you bothered posting, since you don't use/own Sony products any more, ergo it doesn't in anyway effect you.

Re:I think

[DrXym]

There is nothing blatantly false about it. Do you think Sony would really give a shit if all that was stake was some box tinkerers? Of course not. What they DO give a shit about is their reputation going down the toilet if they allow piracy on their platform. It will mean less premium games and less revenues. Pirates might also try to compromise PSN, such as cheating in multiplayer games, hacking trophies and so forth. So they are obviously going to to do everything they can to minimize piracy. If that means hurting the feelings of modders, so be it. The best thing modders can do for themselves is cut loose. Mod some other box, e.g. media boxes which are $100 these days, or develop XBMC for the PS3 or run CFW and forget about PSN and new games entirely because you're not going to be able to have it on a modded box. Period.

Re:I think

[Schadrach]

Then they should be checking for modified game executables and LV2 syscall hacks and little else. Checksum game data files as well if you want to check for cheats beyond piracy. Use one of those rootkit features supposedly added to 3.56 to do so, if you'd like.

Any pirate game is either going to have an LV2 syscall hack in place (to redirect /dev/bdvd to another folder, this is how backup managers work) or have a modified executable (to make it look at some other location in place of /dev/bdvd). Anything else isn't currently in use for piracy.

Ideally, they'd patch the system as hard as possible, release a "homebrew" signing key with minimal restrictions (runs at same privilege level as any other userland PS3 app with full access to anything that entails, maybe with an extra splash screen saying that this software is not licensed by Sony, is not licensed for commercial sale, and Sony is not responsible for yada yada yada on startup). Then go after anyone left, since there's not a legitimate reason to be hacking the machine left.

Re:I think

[Mister Whirly]

So when companies are increasing their profits, you take that as a sign boycotts are working. Brilliant. Any other thoughtful insights on life you want to share with the group? We are all breathlessly waiting to hear them...

Re:I think

[Schadrach]

Wasn't geohot's original hack to get at the video hardware that was explicitly disabled in OtherOS, which involved a hole that pirates could crawl through and geohot knew that?

As in, Sony inherently crippled homebrew, people developing homebrew punched a hole that pirates could crawl through, so Sony removed the ability for homebrewers to do anything by removing OtherOS entirely, causing new holes to be punched?

Re:I think

[JackOfAllGeeks]

Have the console maker do it via locking down their console or have the game publishers make a crazy mess of it.

The better option is to have an open console and force game publishers to do DRM if they feel it's necessary. That way, you have an open console that you can do what you like with, and game publishers will either (1) wisen up and realize that DRM is an inefficient money sink that their customers don't want and pirates don't care about, or (2) they'll die off. It's been shown repeatedly that quality content doesn't need to be protected by DRM to be successful.

Re:I think

[i_ate_god]

Nikon DSLRs are better than Canon's? I dunno, the 7D is pretty nice...

Re:I think

[commodore6502]

>>>since you don't use/own Sony products any more

Not sure where you got that idea. I still have a Sony stereo, Sony PS2, and Sony proprietary CDs. I am boycotting their future products though (i.e. no PS3 in my future).

Re:I think

[lluBdeR]

Vegas? Pro editing? You're joking, right? Maybe if you think "offline editing" means you turned your camera off. If you're a pro you're cutting with Avid. Period. Premiere Pro or Final Cut will do in a pinch but if you're using Vegas you might as well take your ass back to Youtube. Also, I think it should be pointed out Sony didn't make Vegas, they bought it from Sonic Foundry.

Re:I think

[Zelgadiss]

Crippled yes, but it was still there.

If you want an uncrippled platform, feel free to buy a PC.

You have to understand they are not a charity, they have to make money off the device somehow, and that "how" was through licensed games - the video hardware was how they got people to sign up for licenses.
Consoles work on the razor and blade model, it's the way things evolved.
Consoles have to be cheap (look what happened with the $600 PS3), so they are sold either at a loss or barely break even (manufacturing isn't the only cost mind you; R&D cost billions) in order to push adoption. A good chuck of the R&D cost is recoup through game sales.

If you don't want to take part in this model, just buy a PC - but you can't complain about the price in comparison to consoles.

Re:I think

[dmacleod808]

I think lawsuits may result from that. There are a lot of people who may not use PSN or have the appropriate internet connection, now they cannot play a physical game they bought at the store??

Re:I think

[Zelgadiss]

I know. :)

The harder it is the better. As you mentioned, you need an extra PC and all sort of other hardware + software. It would put off a lot of potential cheaters.

Now every Tom, Dick or Harry can just download a "trainer".

Re:I think

[XorNand]

now you can disagree with me that sony products are usually better, but you can't ignore them.

Er, why not? I've ignored Sony for years and I still buy a fair share of electronics. I would strongly disagree with you that they make the best of anything (except maybe gaming console, but I've still never owned a PS of any kind). 20 years ago, they used to make the best TV's. That's not the case anymore. And they've never made the best MP3 player, audio equipment, photography gear, or PCs.

I'm not sure how any reasonably well-informed person could swallow Sony's marketing angle. What they're really good at is projecting the image that you've bought into.

Re:I think

[willy_me]

The other reason for having DRM is to ensure that all games pay royalties to the makers of the associated console. Without DRM, any company could make a game and sell it without having to pay Sony/MS/Nintendo a licensing fee. Requiring online-connections doesn't help in this respect so you can expect the console manufacturers to keep on implementing DRM in their products. They will never be open like a PC.

Re:I think

[dmacleod808]

the WII has not been updated since July... i think they have given up at this point.... Statistics say there are over 600,000 people using HBC with the WII... thats a big bases to piss off.

Re:I think

[Zelgadiss]

I suppose my view was, since you are swore off buying their stuff, what they do / will do to their products should matter much to you - well except of course if it's something you are already bought.

The "Other OS" situation was kind of a special case... I have posted about it in other parts of the thread, and would rather not repeat it here.

People can bitch about that I suppose, but I don't think it's completely Sony's fault.

Re:I think

[Plekto]

In terms of price, the Canon and Sony are better, but the Nikon is still currently the best DSLR you can buy. And, for the inflated price, it had better be. I'd rate Sony virtually tied with Canon as it's really a re-badged Minolta. Myself, I own neither. I don't like Bayer pattern sensors, so that's a whole other discussion ;)

Re:I think

[Anonymous Coward]

Except that they stole from me. They sold me a device that I OWN that did two things... play games and ran Linux. BOTH of those things. Now I have a device that can't do both... and it wasn't my choice to limit my device that way, it was Sony's. You can say you don't blame them, but I sure as heck do. It's not MY problem that someone else wants to play pirated games, and Sony shouldn't be fucking ME as a consequence.

Re:I think

[dgatwood]

Mostly agreed. Except that I wouldn't put them in the top three on most products.

For example, in addition to the headphone brand you mention, I'd also put Koss and Sennheiser noticeably higher than Sony in terms of headphone build quality. My last pair of Sony headphones developed a rattle rather quickly.

I'm of the opinion that in many areas, Sony scrapes by on name recognition and brand loyalty.... If people really looked at life expectancy for products before they bought them, I suspect people would choose many, many different brands over them. Or maybe I've just gotten particularly unlucky.

Regarding why geeks are complaining about not being able to jailbreak their PS3s, I think it has more to do with the fact that Sony took away a feature of their hardware that they were using, then forced them to upgrade in order to continue to play most games, then when people went out to try to find a new way to do what they were previously allowed to do with their hardware with Sony's direct knowledge and support in previous firmware versions, Sony suddenly got all pissy about it and started suing people.

Frankly, the whole thing stinks. Sony needs to remember that those geeks they screwed tend to be the people who recommend products to all their friends---particularly when it comes to electronic gadgets. If every geek vows to not just boycott Sony, but also to tell all their friends and relatives to do so, that will make a noticeable dent in their sales.

Re:I think

[chefmonkey]

If you are referring to "Other OS", it's not targeting specific users because of EULA violations, it was patching of a "security" hole that effected all users.

Whoa. I'd like to see the security hole that actually brings users into existence. That would be sweet. It is some kind of condom manufacturing machine defect?

Re:I think

[blair1q]

That or all future games are going to have online-connection necessary DRM.

Angry Birds does this. I don't think it's intentional, but if you don't have a working connection, parts of it* don't load. At least, the first time.

(In particular, they implemented the xmas portion of Angry Birds Seasons as a sort of advent calendar, where you got each sublevel on a different day; if you didn't have your Internet on (and I don't because when you go Airplane mode it can't load ads and you don't see them), you didn't get the level.)

I see no reason for any game maker not to rely on a working internet connection any more.

Re:I think

[Zelgadiss]

Noticed that after I hit submit. :(

Re:I think

[billcopc]

Best ?

With the exception of my PS2, I haven't owned any other Sony product since my old Discman ESP2, back in the 90's. The damn thing had to be repaired (more like rebuilt) three times during the warranty period. The data ribbon between the two halves of the clamshell kept shearing, largely because it was a dinky freakin' ribbon clumsily snaked around the most high-stress areas of the device. The kicker of course, is that the pinout ensured that any short-circuiting due to wear on the outer edges of the ribbon would FRY the transport controller! Yes, let's put the most sensitive components on the traces most likely to get damaged by our retarded design.

TVs ? Sure, if you can ignore that they cost twice as much as the Samsung they rebadged.

Home audio is an utter joke, 9 times out of 10 when a receiver is brought in for warranty service, it's a Sony, typically with a blown fuse next to a marginal solder point. Worst QC I've ever seen. Old Sony receivers from the 70's were (and still are) awesome, but today's junk is, well, junk. Compare with even Panasonic, which I'll only see once in a blue moon - they just don't die.

Laptops ? A Vaio is a bargain-basement board in a shiny metal shell. Oh, and like all things Sony, it costs twice as much as any other brand. But hey, if you like paying Apple prices for Acer-grade laptops, that's your thing.

Headphones ? Okay... do you know why Sony headphones are favoured by certain DJs ? It's not because they sound particularly good, no. It's because they're relatively cheap, unusually durable (for a Sony product), and they exaggerate the bass which helps with beatmatching. Or maybe they're into hip-hop, in which case dulling the high frequency filth would be a good thing. For the best audiophile headphones, if price is no object you want Grado ($1000+). If you want something more reasonable, I'd recommend studio headphones from AKG or Beyer-Dynamic in the $150 range. Scour any audiophile boards, you won't see any mention of Sony headphones at all, because they don't make anything worth hearing.

Cameras ? Please. They insist on using their own memory format, which costs 5 times more than any SD card. The best point-and-shoot cameras come from Canon, Fujifilm and, to a slightly lesser extent, Panasonic. Everything else is at least one generation behind in terms of quality, ease of use and battery life. DSLRs are a different beast, largely dominated by Nikon and Canon again, though Sony arguably trails not too far behind them, at least in the prosumer range. So they don't entirely suck, for once.

So, to recap, yes it is entirely possible to ignore Sony and still have the best gadgets in every class. Sony markets squarely at the very goofy "high end consumer" segment, which is the consumer who shops at big-box stores and doesn't know about, or is afraid of, prosumer products, thanks to those magnificent creatures known as minimum wage sales associates. That fresh-out-of-high-school kid with the branded shirt and tie ? Yeah, he don't know jack, but he knows that Sony is an easy sale and the high sticker price nets him a bigger commission.

Re:I think

[brit74]

Considering that Modern Warfare 2 had piracy rates of 94% on the PC vs 16% on the XBox 360, I can't blame console makers from trying to stop their consoles from devolving into the PC-situation. (My guess at to why the XBox 360 has low piracy is because it's more difficult and riskier to pirate than on a PC -- it requires a mod-chip, and even if you do that, you might get banned from the network, as Micorsoft did to a million+ pirates right before the launch of Modern Warfare 2.)

Re:I think

[billcopc]

Mike Lochman, is that you ?

Re:I think

[h4rr4r]

Not completely their fault?
They are the only ones who had the power to do that. No one forced them to do a damn thing.

Re:I think

[realityimpaired]

the best mp3 player

My smart phone would disagree with you. In terms of storage capacity it beats anything Sony offers by a very wide margin (since I can swap out the SD card), and in terms of features, you're not even on the same planet. Audio quality is very good, and it has a standard headphone jack so I can use any headphones I please with it.

the best laptops

That's a matter of opinion. Brand loyalty is a fickle thing, but historically, Dell has a much better reliability rating on their laptops. Of course, neither Dell nor Sony come close to the quality ratings for Acer products. (and the main reason I buy Dell instead of Acer is that I actually get an OS disc with my computer, not some cheesy recovery disc, and not a burner with the expectation that I'll build my own recovery disc, with media that I supply myself)

the better gaming consoles

In terms of accessibility, and mass market appeal, I would argue that the Wii is better. I'll concede the point on two grounds, however: one, that the Wii doesn't have a Blu-ray player, and two, that the Wii doesn't really appeal to the hardcore gamer market.

the best handheld gaming consoles

What are you smoking, and where can I get some? There's a reason that Nintendo dominates the handheld market.

the best tvs

Sony doesn't actually manufacture any of their LCD's. They put a Sony brand on it, with Sony electronics, but the LCD itself is a resell, usually either LG or NEC, but they've been known to put Samsung panels in their product. Why on earth would I pay a premium for a Sony TV when I can get exactly the same LCD with better speakers if I buy something with the LG mark on it?

one of the better ebook readers

That's a market I don't know particularly well, so I'm not going to argue the point. I will, however, point out that my smartphone (that was mentionned above) functions as a plenty adequate e-book reader. A larger screen would be nice for reading books, but there's apps you can get which will read the book to you through the headphones. My partner is quite happy with her Kindle, too.

one of the best sounding audio shit (earphones, speaker systems)

Sony headphones don't even come close to the sound quality available from companies like Sennheiser, their speakers don't even come close to the quality you can get from companies like Tannoy or Klipsch, and while you didn't mention it, their component stereo equipment isn't even close to the quality you can get from Marantz or Harmon Kardon. Of the brands you can get at Future Shit, or Worst Buy, yeah, they're pretty good. But set foot in a specialty audio shop, and you'll realize that most of the high end audio shops don't even carry Sony, because their product is so poor.

one of the best cameras, the best video cameras

Have they fixed their optics problems, then? Last time I picked up a Sony camera (about 6 months ago) there was a very noticeable distortion from the poor quality lenses they were using. They could have the best CCD in the world, but coupled with crappy optics it'll still take a crappy picture. There's a reason most professionals use Cannon or Fuji.

decent cellphones

The last two cell phones I have owned were LG (the current one) and HTC. I have yet to see a cell phone from Sony that comes close to either of them in terms of quality and feature set.

It's actually quite easy to avoid Sony products without sacrificing at all on the quality. I've been doing so for years. In fact, I've been doing so for years without even actively boycotting Sony, because I am in the habit of doing research before I buy, and buying the product that offers the best quality for the price point, and at the price point that Sony targets, it's been decades since they were tops.

Re:I think

[marcansoft]

They didn't pull OtherOS in response to the security break, they pulled OtherOS because they were itching for a half-assed excuse to do it. What made it obvious is the fact that OtherOS would've just run on the Slim automagically had they not put in extra effort to disable it. Since they explicitly disabled it (costing them money to develop the changes to disable it on the Slim), that means they had a reason well ahead of geohot's break. They made it seem like OtherOS on the Slim would've cost them extra money to maintain, but it turned out to be the exact opposite, so they were trying to hide the real reason why they removed it. What the reason was is anyone's guess, but there clearly is one and it's not an academic hilariously unstable hardware-based glitching attack.

Re:I think

[UnknownSoldier]

LG is making Panasonic Plasma panels now ??

Since when?

Re:I think

[billcopc]

Well then, maybe the razor and blade model needs to be replaced with something more sustainable.

Make the console $800, but the games $40. Then Sony doesn't need to worry about licensing and royalties... oh, but wait, this is Sony we're talking about. They love royalties, fuck.

Re:I think

[VGPowerlord]

Didn't Microsoft ban an autistic kid because he was so good they decided he must have cheated, and then tell his mom there was nothing that could be done and the labeling as a "Cheater" was irreversible?

No, they banned him because he asked a friend to use his account to "earn" several achievements, and it turns out those achievements were earned in an order not possible in the actual game without the use of some sort of unlocker.

Which is... cheating.

Re:I think

[Moryath]

The PSP even has games still coming out for it?

Wow. I haven't even turned mine in in a whole year. I guess the lineup for it was really that crappy.

This guy actually talked about Sony having "the best mp3 players" and "the best audio shit"... what? Sorry, nobody in their right mind buys a Sony MP3 player, and Sony audio stuff is overpriced and underpowered too - Sony barely ever registers beyond a blip at the usual places...

I think I know what @TheKevinButler's Slashdot name is now though! Come on down and take a bow, Kevin... I mean "perryizgr8."

Re:I think

[VGPowerlord]

Consoles have to be cheap (look what happened with the $600 PS3)

Well then, maybe the razor and blade model needs to be replaced with something more sustainable.

Make the console $800, but the games $40. Then Sony doesn't need to worry about licensing and royalties... oh, but wait, this is Sony we're talking about. They love royalties, fuck.

*whoosh*

Re:I think

[Lumpy]

Right....

Final cut edits more pro tv shows than Avid. In fact it edits more Movies than Avid now.

From a industry expert... names changed to protect the innocent....

"Greg Morton, 28-year veteran of NBC as a Senior Editor and segment producer, had been using Vegas to cut together significant segments for "Dateline" the top-rated news show in its slot.
In an interview with me, Greg said that "He loves using Sony Vegas because of the time it saves him." The station has a LOT of Newscutters (not even officially supported by Avid any longer).
In fact, while I was interviewing Greg, the Pope died and they had only minutes to cut together a montage different than what they had. They'd built content for the "dead pool" but it didn't cover certain things...so we cut it in Vegas, sent it live to broadcast from the SDI port of the Vegas system. I have a photo of me at the 'puter, Greg looking over my shoulder, and the clock showing it's airtime. it was a big deal in the Vegas/major broadcast world at the time.

Well...his show/channel is owned by Friendly, a family network/corporation. They're a major stockholder in Avid.

Within hours of my online story being published, a Senior VP at Avid was on the phone to a Senior VP at Friendly, who within seconds was on the phone to a Senior VP at NBS, who then sent it down the chain of command to the managing producer of Daytime.
Who then fired Greg Morton, just two years away from his retirement. Simply because he told people he liked Vegas and someone at Avid didn't like that. The guy at Avid, BTW, also called me and demanded I change my story. "kiss my a** didn't go far with him, but he was let go from Avid not too long after that."

ABC edits on Sony Vegas. Several shows on Discovery are edited on Vegas, although most are done on Final cut. 20th annual stellar awards were offline edited on vegas and then assembled on the avid. 99.97% of everything on TV is offline edited.

I am just guessing you don't have anything that has been broadcast on national or network TV, nor do you have any real contacts in Network TV.... So I take your comment with very, very little value. Feel free to post your qualifications to add more validity to your opinion.

Re:I think

[VGPowerlord]

Removal of features like install otherOS

Doesn't affect most users in the slightest, me included.

online connection required DRM in several games.

Two things:
1. That's Capcom's doing.
2. That would be in response to the system being broken by Geohot, et. al. In other words, this is an effect, not a cause.

Re:I think

[TrancePhreak]

GeoHot was originally trying to get GPU access in Linux for OtherOS. He happened upon a hole that allowed it and other stuff. Sony removes OtherOS and hackers line up to break it even more.

Re:I think

[Schadrach]

So, what you are saying is that you are perfectly OK with buying equipment that you are not allowed to work on, modify, or use for whatever purpose you desire. Doesn't sound like it's actually been "bought" at that point, does it?

Re:I think

[HiThere]

I don't believe you. I can't be certain, because I'm not going to try their product, but I still don't believe you.

If you were to claim that they used to make the best electronics, I'd agree. Then I'd point out that you could say the same thing about HP, and it's not true of them anymore either. Sony lost their "best quality" a very long time ago. Before the rootkit. At that time I was still buying them because they usually weren't much worse, and I kept hoping they'd recover. Now....

If they went bankrupt tomorrow, I wouldn't buy a newspaper to read the details. I consider their desirability to be down near Taco Bell, but their prices are, as you may have noticed, significantly higher. (OTOH, this is just how *I* rate them. As I mentioned, I don't even consider their products anymore.)

Re:I think

[HiThere]

Sony's reputation went down the toilet nearly a decade ago. (Possibly a bit more.)

They used to make the very best electronics. I still remember a dynamite cassette recorder I once bought. When I tried to replace it (after an unfortunate bath in the ocean) I couldn't. They didn't make them anymore. I bought other things from them, but the quality kept declining. Now.... Well, to be honest I haven't looked at them since the root-kit, but extrapolating, they ought to pay me to take the equipment off their hands.

That's what Sony's reputation is: Maker of shit and retailer of lawsuits and rootkits.

Re:I think

[HiThere]

Yeah, it *CAN* be helped. Provide a programmer interface to a DRM interface, but DON'T LOCK THE SYSTEM. I, myself, wouldn't buy such an interface, but I rarely buy games of any sort. (And then I prefer single player games like Civilization.)

I've got nothing against a game requiring that the system be booted into single-application mode, and using DRM. This doesn't bother me at all, and the provision of system capabilities to allow that to be done is fair. To require that the system be operated in such a mode makes it nearly worthless to me, and if I has bought a PS3, I would be furiously angry with Sony, instead of just disgusted.

No, I do not accept that they have *ANY* justice on their side. If they win in court that just means that I'll believe that either they've corrupted the judge, or that the laws are corrupt and don't deserve to be honored. Sony is clearly guilty of defacing their goods AFTER they have sold them. This is, at minimum, vandalism on a grand scale. IANAL, so I won't pretend to tell you just exactly which laws have been broken. To me it looks like grand theft, but I could accept that they laws might say they should be convicted of something else with a similar punishment. There isn't much question as to what they did. They stole property back after they had sold it. (I could understand an argument saying that it wasn't stealing, because they didn't end up with the property, but not one that claimed they didn't unjustly deprive their customers of the capabilities that they had purchased.)

Sony is the villain of the piece. That's the simple end of it. Anyone who trusts them should expect to regret it bitterly.

Re:I think

[HiThere]

I blame them. They had no right to make that choice. It was blatantly unjust to those who had purchased the system for the otherOS option.

Re:I think

[bloodhawk]

Of course they can, it is there service, they are not disabling your console or damaging it in any way, simply banning you from use of the Xbox Live subscription service which when signing up to you agreed to ONLY use unmodified consoles on. You are in breach of your agreement and hence they are well within their right to discontinue your access to their service.

Re:I think

[Scarletdown]

Now granted I'm not saying I agree with that model, and it should change, but it is what it is, and it is never inconvenient to someone who just purchases a Wii/Xbox 360 and never breaks the EULA.

I don't know about the 360, but the Wii does not present a EULA in any way shape or form in order to use it.

There may be one for the Shopping Channel (don't know for sure, since there is nothing there I am interested in buying, so don't use it), but for just general usage of the console, there is no license agreement you have to accept.

Re:I think

[Teun]

Sony makes a nice battery charger...

Re:I think

[FluffyWithTeeth]

It's more that they've lost territory, but are winning the war. You can't break the latest update on the Wii without owning specific, unpopular games. The old ones used incredibly common games or required no game at all, but how many people are going to buy an obscure game just to install a software hack?

You could buy a modchip for the same price, and that will always work.

Re:I think

[LordLucless]

I know CAD is not usually a /. source, deferring to the more prestigious journals such as xkcd or Dilbert, but:

http://www.cad-comic.com/cad/20110209/

Re:I think

[Dogtanian]

Sony's DSLR is just a re-branded Minolta in any case. Just like how most of their TVs are re-branded Samsung units with different software and menus.

That's misleading- the DSLRs *aren't* simply rebranded products made by someone else in the way that their TVs are.

In fact, Sony bought out Konica Minolta's entire photographic division around 5 years ago. While it's likely true that Sony's DSLR range was originally based primarily (if not entirely) on Minolta's DSLR designs, I don't doubt that Sony have developed it quite a bit since then. (They'd have had to if they were remotely serious about competing with Canon, Nikon et al).

As for the OP's assertion that Sony makes the best MP3 players, I don't see any basis for that. They may have been the byword for portable audio in the 80s and through the 90s, but they totally blew it by stubbornly resisting the MP3 revolution, sticking to their proprietary MiniDisc technology, to the extent that even when they *did* decide to go for it, their first "MP3" players were ATRAC (MiniDisc codec) players which required MP3 files to be converted using their software! They lost that market, and deservedly so.

I get the impression that even in their heyday, Sony products were generally good or very good, and often innovative, but even then they weren't *quite* as consistently outstanding as the hype suggested. Still, I'm extremely happy with my 17-year old Trinitron portable that has never had to be fixed once yet still looks as crisp as new. Best £200 I ever spent.

Nowadays I've seen the Sony name used on totally badge-engineered versions of mediocre products made by other companies, and I doubt anyone here would take them to be a manufacturer of "quality" goods any more, given some of the stories I've heard about their stuff.

Re:I think

[Dogtanian]

I'd rate Sony['s DSLR range] virtually tied with Canon as it's really a re-badged Minolta.

As I mentioned elsewhere, "re-badged" suggests straightforward relabelling of products already being made, designed and sold by another independent company, which is misleading here. Sony bought Minolta's camera division outright a few years back, and on top of that have probably developed Minolta's early DSLR designs quite a bit since then.

Re:I think

[Dogtanian]

Frankly, the whole thing stinks. Sony needs to remember that those geeks they screwed tend to be the people who recommend products to all their friends---particularly when it comes to electronic gadgets.

Doesn't make me happy to say so, but you overestimate the importance of the angry geek. For one thing, the large mainstream of tech-buying "geeks" aren't the Slashdot type, but simply tech-oriented consumers who like the latest gimmicky "boys toys". Some may have good technical knowledge, but they still don't really care about freedom or any higher principles. Some will unlock the device- if possible- *after* they bought it to run pirated software (free games!!!!!111), but that wouldn't be the driving motivation- they wouldn't not buy it in the first place because it was locked-down or anything.

And you also overestimate how much your average Slashdotter's principle's count for when push comes to shove.

Let's be honest here- even on Slashdot there are way, *way* too many people who whine and complain about the behaviour of companies like Sony, and make half-baked threats about boycotts etc... but when the next shiny gadget comes out they'll line up to hand over their money anyway. Then bitch and whine again about something later on. Not saying that everyone here is like that, but there are way too many that are.

If even the tech-nerd geeks can't stand up for what they supposedly believe in, they're sure as heck not likely to convince their mainstream friends to avoid buying the latest electronic must-have goodie.

Your average man on the street does not give a toss about DRM per se, or the Sony rootkit or whatever.

Re:I think

[The End Of Days]

You know, there's just no logical sense in the position that you would buy a platform known to be locked down so that you can "do whatever you want with it."

Face it, your position doesn't stand up to a second's worth of scrutiny, even if you manage to repeat it often enough that you believe it.

Re:I think

[AK Marc]

Sony probably rather not do it,

They already did it on the newer models, and were just waiting for an excuse to force the same on the older models, and that was long before anyone said they'd exploited anything.

but it was either that or let people like Geohot do what they want with the hypervisor.

They do not have the right to damage my gear under threat of extortion because they fear what some idiot who calls himself "geohot" might do to his own console. A security hole in their security of a system they no longer own is not a security threat. The threat could *never* be used against the owner of the box (unless they choose to use it themselves, thus opening up themselves to it). Thus, it is not a security threat to the people Sony harmed.

It was a threat to them, and their response was violence and extortion. If I made the same demands of my neighbor (let me into your car so I can disable your radio, or else I'll pour sugar in your gas tank), I'd be in jail. Sony does it, and people like you rise to defend them.

Re:I think

[Dogtanian]

Have they fixed their optics problems, then? Last time I picked up a Sony camera (about 6 months ago) there was a very noticeable distortion from the poor quality lenses they were using. They could have the best CCD in the world, but coupled with crappy optics it'll still take a crappy picture. There's a reason most professionals use Cannon or Fuji.

I was under the impression that the first choice of the professionals was Canon or Nikon, not Fuji. (*)

Anyway, assuming the camera in question was a DSLR (**), I remember reading reviews of Canon's low-end consumer DSLR a while back which stated that it was a good camera very badly let down by a crappy kit lens. (Its cheaper Nikon rival, by contrast, was praised for its lens). Yet professionals still buy Canon.

Not defending Sony or saying that their lens wasn't crap, but if it was a low-end model, you can't draw inferences from that alone about what professionals do (or don't) use. I suspect the reason that Sony's range isn't as widely used professionally is because Canon and Nikon are the 1000 lb gorillas with a well-established range of lenses and support and are serious about the professional market, whereas Sony's range is less-established and derived from Minolta's (who I don't think were that big at the time they got out of the market), and Sony appear to be starting at the lower end of the market first.

(*) Fujifilm's first DSLR's (around a decade ago) were even based on *Nikon's* F60 film SLR body, likely because their background was as a film company, not a camera maker.
(**) I sure as heck wouldn't consider the lens in (e.g.) a low-end compact as even a legitimate starting point on discussing the totally different professional DSLR market. I'm sure even Nikon's cheapest compacts have relatively crappy lenses.

Re:I think

[Dogtanian]

If you boycott something properly you have to talk about it 8 million times. It's no good boycotting quietly.

Except that as the OP points out (and I've already criticised myself in this thread and numerous times on Slashdot) the vast majority of those people go on... and on... and ON about how they're going to boycott Sony or whoever- but when it comes down to it, they always cave in (*) and hand over their money anyway whenever the latest shiny geek toy is on sale.

(*) Actually, I don't even think that "cave in" is a good description here. It implies that there was at least a token effort or even a simple pretence of standing up for what they go on about.

Re:I think

[AK Marc]

If they don't want me to own the hardware, they shouldn't offer it for sale. Once they sell it, they no longer own it and, like I can replace the exhaust on my car (a protected right by law, so long as emissions rules are followed), I should be able to replace their firmware or hardware as I see fit.

Laws are there to protect the people. Governments do not exist to protect profits of corporations. That the laws seem to place the Right to Profit above all other freedoms is both anti-capitalistic as well as unAmerican. The US is turning into a communist country where the government doesn't own the corporations, but the corporations own the government. The road to get there may have been different, but the results are all the same.

Re:I think

[hurfy]

*sound of needle*
Wait...

Now that you mention it i do have a great sounding Sony turntable...

As for any of the above in the last quarter century...not so great ;O

(I never realized my pawnshop purchase in the 80's sounds better than the highly rated high-end Pioneer setup i got much later til i ran them side-by-side recently... )

Re:I think

[jcd2025]

There is a JTAG hack for the 360 which allows you to run your own applications on it. It only works on non slim models that havent been updated to the latest firmware though.

Re:I think

[blacklint]

I'm fine buying equipment that does exactly what it says. If I buy a system with the knowledge that it is designed for games, and isn't sold as a general purpose computing device, then I'll be perfectly happy that steps have been taken in order to prevent other uses. (If it's advertised as supporting other uses and then those uses are removed as with OtherOS, yes, I'd be pissed. That's a different story.)

With games, since one person using cheats can ruin other people's experiences, I expect that measures will be taken in order to prevent the execution of modified games during online play. I'd call this restriction a feature.

Re:I think

[MikeBabcock]

Its amazing to me how many people lambast Sony when neither Microsoft nor Nintendo has ever offered the option to use their consoles as legitimate computing hardware running Linux, and Sony's done it twice (PS2 and PS3).

Sigh. To rebut someone else's comment, Sony only removed OtherOS after it was apparent that GeoHot was using it to figure out his workarounds for the system. OtherOS was still enabled back when he did that work. As soon as he published his findings on his blog, Sony announced removal of OtherOS. I blame GeoHot, and yes, I'm pro-hacker, but if you're laying blame, its at his feet.

Re:I think

[MikeBabcock]

Sure you can. You're banning access to a private network the user does not own. The user can do what they like to the console, but they may not access Microsoft's XBL. Plain and simple -- you don't own or have ANY rights to Sony's or Microsoft's online services. They get to revoke those anytime they want.

Re:I think

[Plekto]

The old Sony electronics were quite nice. But so where the old Pioneer receivers as well - I still hope to own a SX-1980 some day.

Re:I think

[Khyber]

"If you're a pro you're cutting with Avid. Period."

Ha! HAHAHAH! AAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!

No, real 'pros' cut with SCISSORS ON FILM.

You digital people aren't 'cutting' shit, so quit fucking up the industry terminology.

Pardon me while I go smell my wonderful nitrocellulose.

Re:I think

[Omestes]

I was just shopping around for a low-end ($600-700 range) DSLR, and Sony didn't even place, it was basically Nikon and Canon (mostly Canon, Nikon has a bit of a "Nikon tax"), and, oddly, Pentax. The Sony models, up until the high end of that range, were complete crap. They were all stripped down feature wise, and worse, they felt like crap (in the very low end $400-500, you could actually feel the frame flex a bit, and you could, with light pressure, feel the lens mount stress).

I don't know about the high end much, I'm just entering the hobby. They might be awesome, but everyone I know has a Nikon or Canon at that range (professional or semi-professional).

I went with the Pentax, btw. Mostly because I can use all my mom's old lenses, albeit only on manual. No complaints so far.

Re:I think

[Eunuchswear]

Yeah, he's got an iPhone.

Re:I think

[KClaisse]

Yes there is another hack which compromises the entire system, allowing homebrew software to be run on it. This hack is difficult to do and is limited to only a certain number of older systems which have an older dashboard software version on them. This hack is easily detectable so once you have it you can't go on xbox live. Its purely for people who want homebew.

Re:I think

[Blue_Wombat]

And that's precisely why people aren't angry with Microsoft or Nintendo, but are furious with Sony. Microsoft and Nintendo never offered it in the first place - so if you bought an Xbox or a Wii you got what you paid for. Sony did more than graciously "allow" something, they incorporated it into their marketing as one of the attractive features of the box. Then, after they had sold it to you and taken the cash, removed funcationality they had just promoted and sold to you. It's called fraud!

Perhaps there should be a class action suit to make Sony fully refund the purchase price of all ps3 consoles that had been sold as otherOS capable and then had the feature removed? Arguably, since they have taken away enjoyment of the product, they should have to refund full retail on any games etc surrendered with the console!

Re:I think

[Blue_Wombat]

So if Ford sold a cheap car and got $1 a gallon every time you filled up at Exxon (which is "how their business model works") they would be justified in specially locking the gas tank so you couldn't fill up elsewhere, and putting sugar in your gas tank if you tried? Or prosecuting you if you buy a better radio from an after-market vendor, or dared to get an oil change at an independent garage? That's more or less what Sony has done.

Re:I think

[tehcyder]

Why do you have to be able to hack the PS3 though, and why do you think Sony should help you?

I know you want to, and it may be intellectually rewarding, technically challenging and so on, but if you can't it's really not the end of the world, just go out and find something else to experiment with.

Re:I think

[tehcyder]

Sony's hardware is still fine, their cameras, laptops, TVs and so on are among the better quality items out there.

The rootkit thing didn't register on the radar of most consumers.

Re:I think

[tehcyder]

So, what you are saying is that you are perfectly OK with buying equipment that you are not allowed to work on, modify, or use for whatever purpose you desire. Doesn't sound like it's actually been "bought" at that point, does it?

Wah! I can't get my new toaster to run Xbox games, I'm gonna sue Microsoft and Kenwood.

Re:I think

[Nyder]

I don't keep up on 360 hacks but to my knowledge MS didn't have their signing key compromised though.

The only hacks I know of are messing with the DVD drive to play pirated games. Has anyone really gotten homebrew to run on that thing?

...

Yes, there is a jtag hack for the xbox 360 requiring an xbox that hasn't been updated since like august 2009 or something.

But there isn't anything like the PS3 hacks, so really Sony has more to lose, but since they were kind enough to include the masters keys in the console (or whatever it was), they really messed up.

So...

[Aeternitas827]

Does this mean that Sony have now published the key? Its not as though the person running the Twitter account had to retweet. Reply or dm would have been sufficient to get the quip in. A simple Google search would have told what this was, after all.

Re:So...

[Dalroth]

No. It means that somebody who works at Sony published the key and will likely be fired for misuses of company resources.

Re:So...

[cultiv8]

It means that someone at Sony is probably having a bad day.

Re:So...

[Goffee71]

Its just a marketing man, you can't expect them to have actual brains

Re:So...

[Matt.Battey]

Actually, it probably means that his Twitter account was hacked, and the key posted. In another article Sony indicated that they would be going after every web site hosting the key to remove it from the internet. Now that key is posted on Slashdot.

Re:So...

[NETHED]

Honestly, I doubt the poor shlub about to be fired from marketing had ANY idea what he was doing. He saw the @-reply towards his account, didn't know what that meant, and decided to make a funny. Someone else at Sony saw the "you sunk my battleship" tweet, and after a mild heart attack and stroke, ran to the aforementioned shlub and told him to remove the tweet. What does this mean? It means that Sony's legal position is now much more tenuous, but I highly doubt if that will stop lawyers who are working on a per hour basis, and not a per won case basis.

Re:So...

[miknix]

I think the guy behind TheKevinButler twitter account thought the twittered PS3 master key was some kind of coordinates, that's why he replied "you sank my Battleship?". After someone from Sony realized it was in fact the master key, the marketing team must have removed the related post. Makes sense.. no?

Re:So...

[Anonymous Coward]

Unfortunately, this isn't "the" key. It's a key, used for factory service dongles, which as of 3.56 is utterly useless (even dangerous), old (this is from before the christmas presentation), and boring. It would've been a lot funnier if the person who started the twitter-streisand thing about the PS3 actually picked an interesting key to tweet (such as the metldr "root" private key, C5 B2...).

Re:So...

[PitaBred]

Doubtful. Not many people could tell what a private key is when looking at it, especially not a marketing type who doesn't deal with that shit. I'm betting it was just an ignorance mistake on the part of whoever was manning the Kevin Jack twitter account at that time. Just because you see an encryption key doesn't mean 99% of the rest of the world will know what it is.

Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by stupidity.

Re:So...

[squallbsr]

Anybody who might be a party to a lawsuit regarding the publishing of the key should download that screenshot RIGHT NOW and keep track of it in case of a lawsuit. Make sure your lawyer knows about its existence.

Re:So...

[Dunbal]

But in a way, his battleship was most certainly sunk...

Re:So...

[TheCarp]

Actually.... it looks like he didn't know what it was at all, I am pretty sure that the battleship quote was just a snarky comment.

Though this reminds me of implementing a notification system. It was a web page that allowed notices to be posted, and also to have them be pushed out onto email and usenet (yah, it was a while ago). Lets never mind that my boss had me write the thing before he sent me (alone) to the design comittee with instructions "don't let them know its written already, try to resist any fundamental changes they might want to make"....

Anyway, they wanted an ability to "delete posts". I pushed back because well... you can't delete an email or usenet post. In the end, we settled on a "double secret" function that would allow an admin to make a post dissapear from the main site. Of course, the posting and email functionality was supposed to be "turned on later", and never got turned on (for reasons of organizational disorganization not a rational decision), so I guess it turned out to be enough :)

Re:So...

[Cruciform]

I tweeted all the keys yesterday and people didn't know what the heck was going on.
2 realized they were encryption keys. Another thought I'd lapsed into Martian.

Re:So...

[KeithIrwin]

I'm not sure it means that they've published the key per se, but it would definitely make it way harder to argue in court that it was a trade secret.

Re:So...

[tomhudson]

They were already going after slashdot (see the reports on groklaw.net), which is one reason to green-light this story. The only protection for a trade secret is secrecy. If someone steals the trade secret, it's still legally a secret, but if an employee publishes it voluntarily, sorry, that's it. No more trade secret status.

It's like the formula for Coca-Cola back in the days before Pepsi broke it. Pepsi was about to start selling an exact copy of the "Old Coke" when Coca-Cola figured out that "New Coke" wasn't such a hot idea after all, and brought it back under the name "Coke Classic".

Re:So...

[praxis]

Because your version of the headline, while probably more accurate, is not something we know at this time. The actual headline, while not necessarily as detailed as it could be, is factually true.

Re:So...

[Kashell]

You mean the key that is:

46 (the atomic number of palladium)
DC (the comic book shop)
EA (the horrible DRM ridden game company)
D3 (the Nikon camera)
17 (the element Chlorine)
  FE (the element iron)
45 (the gun caliber)
D8 (the technology conference)
09 (the year sony released a new PS3 model with Other OS disabled)
23 (the atomic number of sodium)
EB (the game store)
97 (the element Berkelium)
E4 (the pay television channel)
95 (the interstate, I-95)
64 (the Nintendo 64)
10 (the hidden message in the 10th xkcd comic http://xkcd.com/10/)
D4 (the programming language)
CD (the dead media format)
B2 (the bomber)
C2 (E=mc^2)

This key tells an interesting story!!!

Re:So...

[HiThere]

What is this programming language "D4"? I've heard of "The D Programming Language", but not of "D4".

Re:So...

[HiThere]

Well it was someone acting as an agent of Sony. And they were doing so in a context where it is reasonable to presume that they were representing Sony with Sony's knowledge and consent.

That, I think, is what is important for the trade secret status. (Caution: IANAL)
OTOH, it's fairly clear that he didn't know what he was saying, and that may also be significant.

Re:So...

[FrigBot]

It's an older code, sir, but it checks out.

Re:So...

[Jainith]

when do we get too...

"...Show them the power of this fully operational battle station"

and

"Its a trap!"

Re:So...

[Dogtanian]

What does this mean? It means that Sony's legal position is now much more tenuous

Are you sure of that? IANAL, and I'm sure you aren't either, but does the fact he was scammed into repeating something that was already public *plus* he didn't actually say "this is the secret key to unlock your playstation" alongside it, so you'd have had to already known what it was anyway.

Re:So...

[AK Marc]

Bullshit (not you personally, but the system). You can't pick and choose whether some employee working in an official capacity for Sony is an official representative of the company one second and not the next. If he's ever represented Sony for anything he's ever done, then, as long as he's acting in good faith, he is a representative of Sony until they terminate him. "Some employee" didn't leak it. Sony Corporate officially published it, because there is no other option when a paid spokes person says something over a company-sanctioned medium. You can't have corporations pick and choose who and what gets certified later. When the CEO signs a contract, it's binding against Sony regardless of whether they fire him for signing it (again, so long as it was done in good faith). The same is true of any actions of any employee authorized to act in a manner according to their position, such as this marketing gentleman was.

Re:So...

[MikeBabcock]

Judges aren't that stupid, and the law isn't that black and white.

Doing things on purpose and doing them by accident really is different in a courtroom. That's why we have both manslaughter and murder charges.

Re:So...

[LingNoi]

When it comes to technology judges are the worse and they really are that stupid. Why do you think that the SCO case took ten years over the "infringement" of a header file?

Re:So...

[MikeBabcock]

If you followed the case closely you'd realize it has nothing to do with judicial intelligence but with procedure. At no point did the judge in the case have the wool pulled over their eyes, but the entire process had to be dealt with properly or it opens venues for retrials. At what point do you believe the judge was being stupid? Feel free to cite a day on Groklaw for easy lookups.

How about

[jsnipy]

Not really the guy's real twitter account?

Re:How about

[Anonymous Coward]

Not really the master key for the latest firmware, but the master key for dongles in v3.41?

Re:How about

[Zelgadiss]

Actually the guy is not even real. :P

Re:How about

[Daetrin]

You are entirely correct, that is the not the real Kevin Butler's real twitter account.

(It is however the "real" Kevin Butler's "real" twitter account.)

Re:How about

[SimonTheSoundMan]

The master key is hard burnt in to ROM inside PS3's. There is no way firmware can change this key.

Re:How about

[BumbaCLot]

Mod Parent up! This is about the only important post on this topic.

Re:How about

[blair1q]

Twitter's pretty unreal.

Or...

[Deimos24601]

His twitter account probably got hacked.

Re:Or...

[franciscohs]

I never understood this "account hacked" thing. You mean that twitter service has a security vulnerability and someone was able to tweet with his account without the right credentials, OR someone used his account logging in with his weak password?, because that's not hacking on my book.

Re:Or...

[kristofme]

Kevin Butler is a character made up by Sony's marketing department (his Wikipedia page says his twitter account is run by the marketing agency that invented him). Some behind-the-scene marketing basically replied without knowing what he was replying to -- whoops..

Re:Or...

[maxwell demon]

Maybe his password was the PS3 master key? After all, that should be a perfectly safe password ... ;-)

Confused...

[bradgoodman]

I'm very confused about this story. I think there are a few plausible explanations:

Has anyone actually verified that this is indeed the key?

Sony really wanted to leak it - why else would a marketing guy even have the key?

He doesn't actually work for Sony. I have some posts that say he is not. (a-la Colbert)

Can anyone clarify any of these thoughts?

Re:Confused...

[Bill Dimm]

My (perhaps incorrect) understanding is that exiva tweeted the key to Kevin Butler (the marketing guy) followed by the words "Come at me." Kevin Butler then retweeted it with "Lemme guess... you sank my Battleship?" because he didn't know what it was. So, Sony didn't give the key to a marketing guy, someone outside of Sony (exiva) did.

Re:Confused...

[doconnor]

I think the simplest explanation is that the marking person behind that twitter account has no idea what a root key looks like, so he retweeted it without knowing what it was. That's why he thought it was Battleship moves.

Re:Confused...

[Anonymous Coward]

My (perhaps incorrect) understanding is that exiva tweeted the key to Kevin Butler (the marketing guy) followed by the words "Come at me." Kevin Butler then retweeted it with "Lemme guess... you sank my Battleship?" because he didn't know what it was. So, Sony didn't give the key to a marketing guy, someone outside of Sony (exiva) did.

Also, Kevin Butler isn't "a marketing guy". He's a fictional marketing character played by Jerry Lambert.

I don't understand. why did this happen?

[goombah99]

Why did this happen? A few theories:

1) an unintentional auto-complete disaster
2) disgruntled employee
3) Hacked twitter account used to launder code in to public domain
4) A diversion: A secondary easily revoked key, not the master, being used to take the piss out of efforts to to find the real master ....???
what is your guess?

Re:I don't understand. why did this happen?

[zill]

1) an unintentional auto-complete disaster

Yeah, don't you just hate it when you type 46 and 46 DC EA D3 17 FE 45 D8 09 23 EB 97 E4 95 64 10 D4 CD B2 C2 get suggested.

Re:I don't understand. why did this happen?

[Anonymous Coward]

This is the real key. It's been known for a few weeks now. Sony has been trying to suppress anyone who reposts the key. Obviously a futile effort.
The marketing guy was tricked into tweeting the key as he responded to another tweet.

Re:I don't understand. why did this happen?

[amicusNYCL]

I think you missed a major possibility:

5) As a marketing guy, he has no clue what he was looking at.

Look at his reply: "Lemme guess... you sank my Battleship?" He's guessing, he doesn't know what the string of characters is. He's in marketing, not engineering. That's why the message got removed, because someone who did know what they're seeing contacted him about it (and he's now probably hoping that he doesn't get fired for it).

Re:I don't understand. why did this happen?

[M8e]

Or when you want to write 46 DC EA D3 17 FE 45 D8 09 23 EB 97 E4 95 64 10 D4 CD B2 C2 and 46 DC EA D3 17 FE 45 D8 09 23 EB 97 E4 95 64 10 D4 CD B2 C2 don't get suggested until you typed 46 DC EA D3 17 FE 45 D8 09 23 EB 97 E4 95 64 10 D4 CD B2 C.

Re:I don't understand. why did this happen?

[commodore6502]

I hope he does get fired.
And then sues Sony for several million in lost wages, damage to reputation, and just general punishment by the Government towards the corporation.

I would laugh like this:
Mu-ha-ah-aha-aha-haha!

Re:I don't understand. why did this happen?

[Goaway]

There's no need to speculate, you can just look at the image to know.

Somebody posted the key and referenced his account. He replied, repeating the key, beacuse he didn't know what it was.

Re:I don't understand. why did this happen?

[OakDragon]

Yes, that guy's a complete idiot. I mean, have you seen him in the commercials?

Re:I don't understand. why did this happen?

[brainboyz]

Well you have to differentiate between 46 DC EA D3 17 FE 45 D8 09 23 EB 97 E4 95 64 10 D4 CD B2 C2 and 46 DC EA D3 17 FE 45 D8 09 23 EB 97 E4 95 64 10 D4 CD B2 F2

Re:I don't understand. why did this happen?

[mwvdlee]

The very first code in the string, "46", isn't even a valid move for Battleships.
You don't need to be an engineer to know that.

Re:I don't understand. why did this happen?

[Samantha Wright]

But then we wouldn't have Kevin Butler! You need to understand the brilliance of the character in order to comprehend how hilarious and in-character that tweet was.

Re:I don't understand. why did this happen?

[AngryNick]

1) an unintentional auto-complete disaster 2) disgruntled employee 3) Hacked twitter account used to launder code in to public domain 4) A diversion: A secondary easily revoked key, not the master, being used to take the piss out of efforts to to find the real master ....??? what is your guess?

5) Based on yesterday's story, this could be an attempt to increase litigation-related revenues at Sony by including everyone in the "Twittersphere". From the FS:

"...the company is demanding that a federal judge order Google to surrender the IP addresses and other identifying information (PDF) of those who have viewed or commented about the jailbreak video on a private YouTube page."

Re:I don't understand. why did this happen?

[vivin]

I made a pretty version of the key.

Re:I don't understand. why did this happen?

[Moryath]

Kevin Butler's twitter account is now talking about "awesome PS3 exclusives" for the next year.

Someone needs to get him to actually name one. The PS3 hasn't had a "killer app" yet.

I'm also surprised Sony hasn't fired this ridiculously ineffective marketing hack years ago.

Re:I don't understand. why did this happen?

[idontgno]

The PS3 hasn't had a "killer app" yet.

Sure it has. There was the app that killed "Other OS", and the app that killed the ability to run games completely offline...

Re:I don't understand. why did this happen?

[maxwell demon]

Sounds like the right time for a massive rickrolling for that video ;-)

Re:I don't understand. why did this happen?

[Samantha Wright]

That really depends on how you feel about sackpeople.

Re:I don't understand. why did this happen?

[PyroMosh]

Little Big Planet. But honestly, there's noting else that is interesting to me that's exclusive. I'm not buying a PS3 just for Little Big Planet.

Re:I don't understand. why did this happen?

[Kitsune Inari]

Free Speech Flag-style

Re:I don't understand. why did this happen?

[Anonymous Coward]

5) As a marketing guy, he has no clue what he was looking at.

I wouldn't be surprised if most of the engineers wouldn't recognize that number. Where I work (a processor/hardware-design company mentioned fairly often on /. so I'm posting AC) one of the low-level hardware-controlling s/w tools is encrypted, and even the people who manage the tool aren't allowed to know the encryption key. They have to do their thing, then send the data to one of the 3 or 4 people in the company with the info to do the encrypt. I imagine Sony does (or at least tried to) do the same.

Re:I don't understand. why did this happen?

[rogueippacket]

Demon's Souls. Unless you're a little girl and can't handle getting yer arse [sic] handed to you by a video game =D

We're all going to jail!

[SirBitBucket]

Oh great! Now Sony will subpoena all of /.'s web logs and sue all of ./'s readers for disseminating the key.

What's next..

[BattleApple]

Is Milton Bradley going to file a lawsuit against Sony?

Re:Marketing man has sense of humor - lawyer doesn

[Hatta]

I'm not sure Kevin Butler actually understood what he was doing. He's a marketer, he probably wouldn't recognize an encryption key when he sees one.

A clever dupe!

[LordStormes]

Look at the reply - "Lemme guess, you sank my battleship!" - The marketing guy had NO IDEA what he was reposting, he was simply trying to figure out why some guy dumped a random string of characters on his Twitter. With the spaces in there, it looks like a log of a Battleship game. The original tweeter simply confused a non-IT guy who had no idea that was even a hexidecimal value, let alone the significance of that particular one, into replying to a tweet. In short, absolutely brilliant.

Re:A clever dupe!

[Nemyst]

The irony of the situation is how appropriate that response is, even in the new context.

Re:A clever dupe!

[TaoPhoenix]

The problem is we have now "wasted" this meme such that "any information coming from an inbound message in social media that gets repeated is either not intentionally repeated as an authorized communication", or else all info from an inbound message must be vetted by legal before being included in a reply.

Re:A clever dupe!

[smelch]

You're an idiot, he didn't really think it was battleship. Every comment I read from somebody who thinks he really thought it was battleship makes me want to punch somebody. He thought it was random bullshit, thats what makes his response a joke and not a conversation. Has Kevin Butler ever said anything (except maybe at E3) that wasn't a joke? Shut up.

Re:A clever dupe!

[Pheredhel]

No matter why he retweeted it, I think it gives a legal way to share the masterkey. Sharing the screenshot of that tweet, for whatever reason can't really be banned, as it is officially posted by sony... At least that is my limited understanding of this. (ianal) Could anyone who knows more about this explain if it is so, or why it might not be?

Re:A clever dupe!

[Fatalis]

I think this is just being uncharitable.

He didn't know what it was

[TheSpoom]

Read the tweet, he though it was a set of Battleship coordinates. I bet it actually was that guy (or whoever tweets for him) that posted it.

Can someone explain what any of this means...

[kaizendojo]

...to those of us that have real lives, friends and girlfriends? Sorry, I've been outside.

Re:Can someone explain what any of this means...

[headhot]

Sony has been suing every one who puts the key on the internet. They key is the master key to the PS3 that has resulted in completely making its DRM system uselss.

Re:Can someone explain what any of this means...

[jovius]

It means that you'll have the playfield for the times to come.

Re:Can someone explain what any of this means...

[Zelgadiss]

The posting of the key on twitter?

Nothing.

The key could be easily gotten off the internet by anyone who has the expertise to use it.

Re:Can someone explain what any of this means...

[toygeek]

Slashdotters don't have lives, friends, girlfriends, or this 'outside' you speak of. You must be new here.

Re:Can someone explain what any of this means...

[ShadoeKnight]

And yet, you're posting on Slashdot....

Re:Can someone explain what any of this means...

[kaizendojo]

Thanks. The OP shouldn't assume everyone knows what this means - I don't play on any consoles so I didn't know. Wasn't trolling, just saying that with a bit of humor, obviously lost on the mod. Once again, thanks.

In the context of trade secrets and the law ...

[perpenso]

I am guessing, but I think the poster was asking if Sony published in the context of protecting a trade secret. My understanding is that if a company fails to protect and/or publishes a trade secret, either intentionally or accidentally, the information loses its trade secret status in the eyes of the law. So in this context it is an interest question, does publicly repeating what an outside has said count as disclosure of a trade secret with respect to the law?

Re:In the context of trade secrets and the law ...

[zerro]

So now that sony has leaked their master key (whether intentional, inadvertent, or not), would certain protections of the DMCA become harder to enforce? Or, put another way, would this help in the defense of those pursuing activities akin like GeoHot?

Re:In the context of trade secrets and the law ...

[Aeternitas827]

I'm guessing it wouldn't help with suits in progress (since those actions pre-date this tweet); but, I can see it being more difficult (not necessary impossible) to go after other people under the anti-circumvention aspects of the DMCA.

Now, if something like this can be subject to copyright (which, I wouldn't think it would be able to, but I can't say for sure--IANAL), there may still be action there to be had.

Snake eats tail

[seven of five]

Sony sues itself for DMCA violation.

Re:Snake eats tail

[blair1q]

That would be silly, but in reality, it doesn't matter if Sony publishes the key. If you use it to steal their product, they can pwn you IRL.

136,000!

[symes]

This really is the Streisand Effect ++ At what point will Sony give up? Surely the resources involved in chasing down every site will eventually cost more than the projected income from keeping this key private. Not that it is private anymore. A quick Google finds 136,000 entries for the key!

Re:136,000!

[DrXym]

This really is the Streisand Effect ++ At what point will Sony give up?

They won't give up. They have deeper pockets than the hackers and can keep them tied up in the courts for as long as they like.

All part of their new marketing plan

[elrous0]

Looks like Sony's new "Hack the Box!" marketing plan got leaked a little early.

oh for F...'s sake...

[MickyTheIdiot]

This marketing idiot retweeted something someone sent him and had no idea what he was doing...

Read the tweet...

He should be fired. He's an idiot.

Re:oh for F...'s sake...

[city]

I think they should make an example of this whole thing and sue the actor who plays Kevin Butler. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerry_Lambert_(actor)

Re:oh for F...'s sake...

[jameskojiro]

The fictional character's twitter account isn't necessarily managed by the actor who plays the character.

Re:oh for F...'s sake...

[MickyTheIdiot]

I didn't realize that the account was a fictional person when I wrote the GP, but I still believe whatever marketing drone that sent the tweet is an idiot that should be fired. They don't even appear to have basic knowledge about their product or what is happening with it.

So

[frozentier]

Does /. now get shut down by Sony for posting the key?

Excuse me?

[Leolo]

Could this post be translated into English understandable by people over 40?

I can't believe I just asked that! But I don't know how to congugate "to retweet" nor how to parse "X followers tweet read."

Re:Excuse me?

[Cerium]

Don't feel bad. I'm still in my 20s and I don't get it either.

Re:Excuse me?

[amRadioHed]

Sorry, you've had your time old man. Report to your nearest Sleepshop immediately.

Re:Excuse me?

[ColdWetDog]

Could this post be translated into English understandable by people over 40?

I can't believe I just asked that! But I don't know how to congugate "to retweet" nor how to parse "X followers tweet read."

This might help, gramps.

Re:Excuse me?

[NitroWolf]

The Kevin guy retweeted (repeated what someone else said) in his tweet the alleged Sony master encryption key for the PS3. Other people are saying it's an old key and thus useless... in either case, it's probably not something Sony wanted to publish publically.

Since it was publically posted now, by an official Sony representative no less, it's going to be hard to claim that the key is a proprietary/trade secret in court.

Re:Excuse me?

[SecurityGuy]

Twitter is a vast bathroom wall where people scrawl things. Writing something on the wall is "tweeting".

Some people erroneously think the things you scrawl are important, so they follow you. Your followers watch your bit of wall to see when you write seomething.

When your followers think you wrote something less irrelevant than usual, they may retweet it, which simply means they wrote it on their bit of wall for people who follow them to see.

Re:Excuse me?

[frozentier]

Twitter is a vast bathroom wall where people scrawl things.

You also just described all blogs.

Watch Out Marketing!

[parse.here]

"The character was created by Deutsch/LA, the advertising agency responsible for the campaign.[3] Deutsch/LA also manages Kevin Butler's Twitter account and wrote his E3 2010 speech."

Unless it's a publicity stunt, the Deutsch/LA relations may go down the toilet. I thought the Battleship reference was a great joke though.

Kevin Butler (character)

Kevin Butler

[a_nonamiss]

Do you people realize that Kevin Butler isn't even a real person? (At least, not at Sony.) He's a fictional character played by an actor. This twitter account is probably manned by dozens of employees in the marketing department paid to do just that. Any one of them could have been tricked or compromised. citation

Re:Kevin Butler

[revlayle]

Do you people realize that Kevin Butler isn't even a real person? (At least, not at Sony.) He's a fictional character played by an actor. This twitter account is probably manned by dozens of employees in the marketing department paid to do just that. Any one of them could have been tricked or compromised. citation

QFT

The actor is Jerry Lambert (at least in the commercials, could be anyone managing the Twitter account). He's done lots of bit work many sitcoms and used to do several humorous commercials for GEICO as the "bland insurance agent".

It gets worse

[Leolo]

Without DRM the games are that much more suspetible to being controled by a script. In online play, this would give an advantage to the better coders (or script kiddies).

Yes everyone could be using the cheat-scripts, but that would spoil the fun. This is a repeat of the steroids (sorry, Performance Enhancing Drugs) debate.

plot?

[X10]

First they tweet the master key, then they sue you. Nice plot.

Yuo sunk mah battleship

[otis wildflower]

http://www.unixslave.com/ysmb.png

Re:Yuo sunk mah battleship

[cigawoot]

+1 Funny, if I had mod points

Re:Yuo sunk mah battleship

[tokul]

:) interesting. I think sunken battleship is USS Arizona. Maybe someone should tell those nerds that WW2 is over, Sony is Japanese and correct photo should show Yamato, Shinano or Yamashiro/Fuso.

XNA

[tepples]

As I understand it, there hasn't been much of an effort to jailbreak the Xbox 360 console for homebrew because Microsoft offers a limited "XNA" sandbox in which to make, run, and even sell homebrew games, and it appears far more committed to XNA than Sony ever was to Other OS.

Re:XNA

[ginbot462]

I don't even own an XBOX and I still like XNA. And as far as "limited" goes, for most people just creating games for fun and the hell of it ... the only boundary has been time. Just understand what you are getting, DirectX level API; don't expect a game engine (though there are bunch for it out there) like Unreal or even Torque.

Re:XNA

[Zelgadiss]

Other OS was also a sandbox, and it was free. The applications you create to run either directly on Other OS or on top of Linux can also be freely distributed.

You must pay for XNA if I'm right, and there are "restrictions" to how apps are distributed.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

Re:XNA

[tepples]

And as far as "limited" goes, for most people just creating games for fun and the hell of it ... the only boundary has been time.

There are plenty of other boundaries. All code must be verifiably type-safe IL, which rules out porting games written in standard C++. (The verifiably type-safe subset of C++/CLI is incompatible with standard C++.) Games may include text only in a handful of languages, which rules out games designed for teaching other languages or RPGs where a character encounters a village of NPCs who aren't fluent in the common tongue and learning their language is a quest. And until XNA 4 introduced the "dynamic sound effect", there was no way to synthesize speech.

Re:XNA

[hyperquantization]

XNA, as a framework and development tools, is completely free (obligatory Wikipedia link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_XNA). However, the XNA Creators Club, the only way to distribute XNA games developed for the Xbox, requires a yearly subscription.

Re:XNA

[TrancePhreak]

And yet that has not mattered to most of the XNA devs.

Re:XNA

[pavon]

Yeah, but the Other OS sandbox prevented it from accessing the GPU which made it completely unsuitable for homebrew games. The XNA dev kit is free, and games created with it can be freely distributed on windows computers. Distributing on XBox live requires a $99/year subscription, but that is pretty cheap for what you get. If you sell your game for $5, it only takes 20 sales to pay it off. Microsoft also does a good job of promoting good homebrew games. My only complaint about it is that it isn't compatible with open source development. Microsoft has done more to support homebrew game development on the 360 than any other console maker since the video game crash of '83.

Re:XNA

[Zelgadiss]

So the XNA was just a different set of restrictions.

In essence you can create, but can't distribute.
I wouldn't consider being able to distribute on Windows computers a perk, since you can do that anyhow.

We can't say Sony didn't support homebrew though, they just did it differently.

Re:XNA

[pavon]

Yeah, "different restrictions" where one restriction allows you to make games and the other does not. Seriously, show me a single decent homebrew game for the PS3. I know of an (illegal) Pong game made for GameOS, and the standard Linux solitare/minesweeper type games. Compared to thousands of XNA games that have been made for the 360.

Re:XNA

[inglorion_on_the_net]

As I understand it, there hasn't been much of an effort to jailbreak the Xbox 360 console for homebrew because Microsoft offers a limited "XNA" sandbox in which to make, run, and even sell homebrew games

Similarly, efforts to jailbreak the PlayStation 3 only really seemed to get off the ground after Sony disabled the Other OS feature.

Re:XNA

[tepples]

How have most of the XNA devs worked around the problems that I mentioned?

Re:XNA

[Zelgadiss]

From the guy that got it removed in the first place...

I'm so tired of repeating this. You are posting as AC, so I'm not sure if I'm being trolled, hence I really can't be arsed to explain the whole history of this mess from the start.

Re:XNA

[Zelgadiss]

Homebrew != only games

Show me using the XNA to doing video decoding or video compression, or any other non-game application for the matter.

Some Facts

[pentadecagon]

http://www.engadget.com/2011/02/09/ps3-jailbreak-code-retweeted-by-sonys-kevin-butler-no-punchl/

... this sequence actually refers to the USB dongle ID generator key, also used for PS3 security circumvention

this story is stupid and "Kevin Buttler" is stupid

[Thud457]

46 DC EA 17 FE 45 09 23 EB 97 E4 95 64 10 CD are not valid Battleship(tm) coordinates, although D3 D8 E4 D4 B2 C2 are. The Battleship(tm) board is labelled with rows 1-10 an columns A-L . So valid Battleship(tm) coordinates would be always be a combination of a letter and a number.

twitter schmitter

[avm]

A truly amusing hack, and one worthy of being called a hack in the first place, would be to get Sony's DNS servers to return the assorted keys. Twitter foolery is just that.

Public domain?

[bazmail]

So the code is now legally public domain? Aces!

Re:Public domain?

[stinerman]

Yes, for the same reason that everything ever printed anywhere for all time is now legally public domain.

That word does not mean what you think it means.

This just in

[Jason Levine]

Sony is demanding Twitter turn over all of the IP addresses of everyone who follows Kevin Butler. For good measure, they also want the IP addresses of all of *those* followers followers and the followers of the second batch as well.

Sony is also preparing a lawsuit against Google for making the RTs available to the world on Google RealTime: http://www.google.com/search?tbs=mbl%3A1&hl=en&source=hp&biw=1408&bih=851&q=%40TheKevinButler+Lemme+Guess&btnG=Search

Finally, Sony is also suing me for linking to the Google search which lets you see the tweets that let you see the PS3 Master Key.

Maybe

[Adam Appel]

He can see the future and has a good sense of humor?

Theory vs Reality

[Anonymous Coward]

Microsoft is in a much better situation because XBox Live is a vital part of the XBox experience, and if they can ban consoles on XBox live, it provides a powerful incentive for people not to hack their console.

On the other hand, the PS3 is still mostly a solo/non-online machine, so they cannot use the same types of DRM type enforcement to ensure consoles are not hacked.

Until practical hacks are released that allows people to just download a game and play it, this is still for all intents and purposes just a theoretical hack.

you sank my Battleship?

[Andrewkov]

"'@TheKevinButler Lemme guess... you sank my Battleship?"

Yes, yes he did.

Re:you sank my Battleship?

[TheCarp]

"Nah, I just rearranged the controls on the helm, you just sunk your battleship"

Re:this story is stupid and "Kevin Buttler" is stu

[daid303]

These coordinates are for the extended Battleship(tm) game. Battleship(tm) with Nukes(tm) from Orbit(tm)

Nailed it on the head

[Dragon_Eater]

I thing these guys nailed it...

I am not the best at linking things but here it goes:

http://www.cad-comic.com/cad/

Re:Nailed it on the head

[Locke2005]

I especially like the "FUCK YOU CONSUMER" embedded in the registration key.

But seriously, Sony's attitude towards it's own customers is one of the reasons I now refuse to buy any Sony products. In fact, I'd rather give (gasp!) Microsoft my money than give it to Sony.

Has he even played Battleship?

[Quila]

The only pairs that are valid Battleship coordinates are D3, D8, E4, D4, B2 and C2.

That being your only calls, the only thing you could sink is a patrol boat at D3-D4, D4-E4 or B2-C2.

Wrong key?

[Rikiji7]

fail0verflow member marcan42 claims that's not the master key, but an outdated one. so the internet is now waving at useless hex values.

I will miss those commercials....

[jameskojiro]

They were pretty funny... But now I guess the next PS3 commercials will be boring as week old toast...

Master Key (trademark Nintendo)

[billmarrs]

"PS3 Master Key"... is Zelda coming to the PlayStation?!

am i the only one who found this post unreadable?

[buback]

Just because your referencing twitter doesn't mean you have to throw @'s and #'s in front of everything. At the same time they neglected any useful punctuation.

I am NOT a grammar nazi but I do have my limits.

What language do iOS and XNA share?

[tepples]

The XNA dev kit is free, and games created with it can be freely distributed on windows computers.

Say I develop a game in C#, the preferred language of XNA. Now how do I port it to Mac OS X, iOS, Android, or any other non-Windows platform? Ordinarily, I'd develop the game with a multitier architecture, with a fairly clean separation between the platform-agnostic physics and the platform-specific graphics engine. (I've done this before to get a single game working on PC and Nintendo DS, with the platform-agnostic portion written in C.) But this sort of multitier design works only when all platforms can run the programming language in which the platform-agnostic portion is implemented.

Re:What language do iOS and XNA share?

[aaron552]

At the risk of sounding naive (I actually haven't tried this), I'd say that you could try mono. As far as I'm aware, there's mono for Mac OS X (and Linux/BSD), MonoTouch for iOS but I'm not sure about Android.

Re:What language do iOS and XNA share?

[Rallion]

I'm pretty sure that's why the above poster specifically said "windows computers."

Re:What language do iOS and XNA share?

[dwarfsoft]

Pray for ExEn to save you (or donate to help it to happen).

Re:What language do iOS and XNA share?

[dwarfsoft]

Link Fail. Meant ExEn.

Re:What language do iOS and XNA share?

[tepples]

Thanks. Fueled by $50 for now.

Re:What language do iOS and XNA share?

[VMSBIGOT]

I'm currently working on a multiplatform game myself, so here's what I've done:

1) Primary codebase is C# targeted against the .NET 4.0 framework
2) Using ProjectLinkler in VS 2010, I Sync the game logic, and a fair amount of the UI code from #1 to Silverlight for Web and Silverlight for WP7
3) Using "CSharp to Java" coverter tool, I sync #1 to Java (game logic only)
4) Branch #3 into Blackberry and Android codebases
5) iOS has Monotouch which is a Mono implementation for it.

This process is Long winded I admit, but it works to keep the game logic in sync for bug fixes/features added. Now the GUI part is another beast in itself, just due to the vastly different ways each platform handles UI/events. If I can get 60%+ of my code to be take care of by processes instead of manually, to me thats a win.

I admit I haven't worked with Monotouch yet, as I want to be closer to finished before I invest the money into Apple's dev kit (Ie, a Mac)

I haven't spent anytime trying to port it to consoles just due to the nature of the game (Word puzzle). But since I did the codebase in C#, I can port it pretty easily to the 360, and with the PS3's signing key in the open, I guess I could look at porting it to the PS3 as well.

Re:this story is stupid and "Kevin Buttler" is stu

[Nimey]

It's for a secret 3-dimensional Battleship clone I was working on. Now I'll sue you and Sony for violating my NDA!

Re:I think...newfie?

[billcopc]

Mike Lockman, is that you ?

So, is Sony going to sue itself now?

[JustAnotherIdiot]

An article posted yesterday said that Sony was going to "sue anybody posting or 'distributing' the first full-fledged jailbreak code".
Now that Sony has done just that, are they going to stick to their guns and sue themselves?

Homebrew!

[DrYak]

If console makers [...] leave their consoles wide open like the PC, it's only common sense to expect PC like DRM from games.

IMO it's kind of a pick your poison situation. Have the console maker do it via locking down their console or have the game publishers make a crazy mess of it.

There's a slight difference.
In both case players are going to be alienated by DRM (maybe even more so in the second case as there are probably a lot of different DRM-vendors, some of which even better in the "snake oil" department, and thus probably even shittier DRM solutions). ...BUT!...

A non-protected gaming console should be able to run arbitrary code, thus pleasing much more the whole "OtherOS" crowd (homebrew, linux & science, etc.)

(Also, on a side note, look how the massive, fast and successful efforts to crack the PS3 DRM only started *after* the OtherOS options was removed).

You're not kidding...

[Xenographic]

No kidding. They even plan to subpoena Slashdot (not to mention Twitter). I don't know what they'll get out of that except for a lot of "in soviet Russia" jokes, but I guess their lawyers like wasting their client's billable hours on fishing expeditions?

I suggest they try Googling that key. I don't know how many results they'll find, but I'm guessing there will be thousands, if not more. It's kind of futile to tell the judge that you need expedited discovery and such when the cat is not merely out of the bag, but halfway across the galaxy, isn't it? But hey, I guess you guys might see it differently. You could go send a million nastygrams to everyone who reads the news and rack up $200/hr. Fact is, I just hate Sony. I don't have a PS3 because I've been boycotting Sony since the time they infected people with that rootkit, so this hexadecimal number you're trying to censor is utterly worthless to me. I can't very well circumvent the protections on a device I'll never own, now, can I?

Re:You're not kidding...

[JohhnyTHM]

Google says about 133000 results. That should keep the lawyers busy.

What does this mean? It means "09 F9" v2.0, baby!

[KWTm]

Someone else at Sony saw the "you sunk my battleship" tweet, and after a mild heart attack and stroke, ran to the aforementioned shlub and told him to remove the tweet. What does this mean?

It means that someone pointy-haired at Sony is going to yell, "Take that number off my Internet!" followed by a conglomerate of 1,000,000 lawyers who comtransbineform into MegaLawyer and SMASH! all websites that try to post that number. Kevin Rose can try another round of censorship before whining, "Ummm... I never meant to suppress your 4000 posts of the number! It was the bad guys that made me do it!"

Of course, MegaLawyer wouldn't know that it's actually a number, and for those who don't want to display four hundred and four quadrillion quintillion quintillion red dots on their web site in solidarity, a simple line would suffice:

echo "obase=16; 404555974007725459910684486621289147856453481154 " | bc

As for myself, I'm gonna go get a new sig right now.

Proper reply....

[d474]

Lemme guess... you sank my Battleship? RT @exiva

@TheKevinButler No, *you* just sank your battle ship. Muwaaahaa-haa-haa-haaa!

How funny is that

[YokimaSun]

im drunk and this just makes Sony going after PS3 hackers even funnier, what say that bloke is out of a job in the morning :P

this was no accident

[gearloos]

What if this was simply a ploy for SONY to show to the world why we all need DRM on everything in our lives? They now have a reasonable excuse for putting DRM laden movies out.

Archive ? by LoC

[kentsin]

What a historical tweet.

In other news

[MemoryDragon]

The fictional marketing Guy Kevin butler now has gotten a fictional pink slip and tomorrow he will enrolle for fictional unemployment benefits.