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Watson Wins Jeopardy Contest

NicknamesAreStupid writes "The word is in, Watson beats the two best Jeopardy players. Sure, it cost IBM four years and millions of dollars and requires a room full of hardware. In thirty years it will all fit in your pocket and cost $19.99. Resistance is futile; you will be trivialized."

674 comments

  1. AI Winter by MarriedGeek · · Score: 2

    I think it is safe to say the AI Winter is over.

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    sig = null;
    1. Re:AI Winter by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Why? I don't see anything more special or "AI" in this than in Deep Blue's wins at chess so long ago.

      Yes, the natural language processing is impressive. But it takes a really huge computer, and it's really nothing more than a bunch of clever software along with a database of trivia.

      Watson showed very clearly how deeply it did not "understand" anything about what it was doing, via the nature of the blunders that it did make.

    2. Re:AI Winter by The+End+Of+Days · · Score: 1

      The main thing Watson showed by its mistakes was that it had no hardware monitoring the studio.

    3. Re:AI Winter by petteyg359 · · Score: 1

      Your brain is nothing more than a bunch of clever software with a database of trivia, and you do not understand many things about what you do. The template for Brain - being released many thousands of years ago - having longer to get fixes and new features, and your specific instance of Brain having some years to add content and optimize its database indices doesn't make this event any less significant.

    4. Re:AI Winter by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not even close. Watson doesn't 'understand' anything about the jeopardy answers and questions, just simply searches its data for correlations between words and phrases. e.g. Watson thought Harry Potter killed Snape

    5. Re:AI Winter by TheLink · · Score: 2

      The other thing Watson showed by its mistakes is that its AI still lacks understanding and intelligence.

      Often it's your wrong answers that show how much you really understand.

      http://www.csmonitor.com/Innovation/Latest-News-Wires/2011/0215/On-Jeopardy-Watson-s-mistakes-reveal-its-genius

      Clue: It was this anatomical oddity of US gymnast George Eyser.
      Ken Jennings' answer: Missing a hand (wrong)
      Watson's answer: leg (wrong)
      Correct answer: Missing a leg

      And the "Toronto":
      http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/the-hot-button/watson-computer-makes-elementary-error-on-jeopardy/article1909685/?cmpid=rss1

      Once the AI's wrong answers start to look intelligent, the next level of understanding would be when the AI can actually teach someone what it knows.

      If you can teach difficult new stuff to stupider people then you're getting to Feynmann material :).

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    6. Re:AI Winter by MoonBuggy · · Score: 2

      Why? I don't see anything more special or "AI" in this than in Deep Blue's wins at chess so long ago.

      Chess can be brute forced in a way that language can't. Not to say that Deep Blue was all brute force, and I don't think Watson is true AI, but I do think it's a moderately significant step, not to mention more practically applicable. If nothing else, it (in combination with some decent speech recognition software) brings us one step closer to a Star Trek style voice interface, and that's a damn worthwhile cause in my book!

      These debates always remind me of something I read once, too. I forget the book, but the gist was that coders will be the last people to accept true AI if we ever do create it; we tend to believe that we have a full understanding of the way computers work, and what they are and are not capable of. While this is true to an extent, it becomes less so as systems become more and more complicated - I'm sure there's not a person on Earth who could fully understand a million-line program singlehandedly. Consciousness is just the emergent behaviour of organic computing hardware and software, and there's no reason that a sufficiently complex artificial system couldn't eventually show similar emergent behaviour, intentional or otherwise.

    7. Re:AI Winter by Totenglocke · · Score: 2

      Watson's answer was correct - he just didn't phrase it the way they want. Human contestants get hit with that rather frequently on Jeopardy for forgetting to say "What / Who / Where is....?". Hell, he actually had more correct answers than he buzzed in because he's programmed to not buzz in if he's not above a certain confidence level for the answer (I forget what it was in the video....under 90% and he wouldn't buzz in, I believe).

      --
      "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." ~Thomas Jefferson
    8. Re:AI Winter by Totenglocke · · Score: 1

      Well, depending on how you view the situation, you could argue that Harry DID in fact kill Snape.

      --
      "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." ~Thomas Jefferson
    9. Re:AI Winter by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      That's what AI is. Whatever we think is hard to do today is AI. As soon as we're able to do it someone will say "bah, that's not real AI". .

      The snag is that people have this myth of AI as this science-fiction thing, where machines will be able to think and have consciousness. But that's not what people in AI do. They are working on solving actual problems with how to make computers smarter and able to solve tougher problems.

    10. Re:AI Winter by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 2

      "Your brain is nothing more than a bunch of clever software with a database of trivia..."

      Not only do we not know this, there is a good bit of evidence to the contrary. The human brain is not anything like the computers we build today, except to say that they can both "compute", to varying degrees.

      But even if you did believe that they worked in fundamentally the same way, THIS article from just the other day claims that the best estimate so far is that all the computing power in the world today, including Watson, Deep Blue, all the Crays, desktops, and all the way down to cell phones, added together... is equivalent to approximately the computing and storage power of a single human brain.

      So... it's going to be a very long while before we can make a single computer anywhere near that powerful. Much less make it fit in a pocket.

      Watson is a good demonstration of what modern software -- with the aid of an outrageous shitload of processing power, even by today's standards -- can do in the area of natural language processing. Nothing more. And even that has a long way to go.

    11. Re:AI Winter by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 0

      "... he just didn't phrase it the way they want..."

      And on Jeopardy that's still called a "wrong answer".

    12. Re:AI Winter by Aeternitas827 · · Score: 1

      Uh, spoiler alert? Some of us haven't seen the movie yet!

      --
      I don't post AC. I like my -1, Flamebaits. Trump/Sheen 2012 on the Batshit Insane ticket!
    13. Re:AI Winter by oliverthered · · Score: 1

      Yep, but t he parent wasn't complaining about Jepody ability but answering ability.

      Jepody is very quick fire, it may be possible to make it better with a bit more time or being able to give more than one answer and develop the answers (like a didactic argument for instance)
      Watson, the house round the corner?
      Person, no it wasn't a house,
      Watson, The bates motel?

      or Watson,
      maybe a leg, maybe missing a leg etc... then able to produce citations and sources.

      --
      thank God the internet isn't a human right.
    14. Re:AI Winter by shaitand · · Score: 2

      But it doesn't illustrate the GP's point. It doesn't illustrate a particular lack of understanding or intelligence and certainly isn't support for the post he responded to that there is no real AI at work.

      Making a technical mistake that is often made by the human contestants indicates sophisticated intelligence. Just like an IQ test, often giving the same wrong answer that other highly intelligent individuals gave will result in a better score than actually giving the correct answer.
       

    15. Re:AI Winter by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 1

      "Chess can be brute forced in a way that language can't."

      I am well aware of this. I am, after all, a programmer and I understand how chess programs work.

      However, there is little real difference. Watson is still just following a fixed set of rules, no matter how complex that set of rules is. Just like Deep Blue, it is completely incapable of dealing with literally anything that falls outside that specific set of rules. Which means that Watson is fundamentally no "smarter" than Deep Blue was.

      "... there's no reason that a sufficiently complex artificial system couldn't eventually show similar emergent behaviour, intentional or otherwise"

      Here you have hit on the crux of the matter (and prove my point for me). Even most animal brains that are of complexity near to our own are not capable of the kind of cognition and "self-awareness" that humans attribute to real consciousness.

      Therefore, "sufficient complexity" appears to be extremely complex indeed, as this article clearly implies, with quite a bit of evidence to back it up.

    16. Re:AI Winter by shaitand · · Score: 1

      "Not only do we not know this, there is a good bit of evidence to the contrary. The human brain is not anything like the computers we build today, except to say that they can both "compute", to varying degrees."

      There COULD be something magical about the human brain. But we have modeled the brains of animals with fewer neurons successfully and they are made of pretty much the same stuff just in lower quantities.

    17. Re:AI Winter by shaitand · · Score: 1

      P.S. With regard to computing power of the brain. Just because the raw potential is there doesn't mean that much potential is required to simulate the function. The human brain isn't a designed process and it is highly unlikely to operate efficiently. There are artifacts aplenty and redundancy galore.

    18. Re:AI Winter by oliverthered · · Score: 2

      I'm not hot on war heros etc... Does Toronto have airports that fit the criteria?

      an airport named after a Second World War hero and one after a Second World War battle.

      Toronto may not be in the US but it's in north America, a lot closer than Cape Town Airport. how good is your geography.

      As wrong answers go, it may not have been that bad. Hell it's only a few years old, and improves itself.

      --
      thank God the internet isn't a human right.
    19. Re:AI Winter by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 1

      "Making a technical mistake that is often made by the human contestants indicates sophisticated intelligence."

      Nonsense. It is possible to cause a milling machine to make the same kind of mistakes that human woodcarvers do. That doesn't make it intelligent.

    20. Re:AI Winter by shaitand · · Score: 1

      "I don't think Watson is true AI"

      What would true AI be? Most games have true AI these days.

    21. Re:AI Winter by shaitand · · Score: 1

      How is that different than us?

    22. Re:AI Winter by DigiShaman · · Score: 1

      It's been said before that the human brain doesn't actually compute logic, but rather approximates. Being an analog computer and all, I can only guess as to why math is so difficult to do in our heads. Unlike a CPU that does this in hardware, but suck at everything else unless specifically specialized, we have to abstract it out through approximations before we can later determine its truth.

      Which all makes sense when you think about it. Nature is analog, thus so should a biological apparatus be as well to live among nature.

      --
      Life is not for the lazy.
    23. Re:AI Winter by oliverthered · · Score: 3, Informative

      The Battle of Okinawa
      Oshawa Airport

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billy_Bishop
      Billy Bishop Toronto City Airport

      Air Marshal William Avery "Billy" Bishop VC, CB, DSO & Bar, MC, DFC, ED (8 February 1894 – 11 September 1956) was a Canadian First World War flying ace, officially credited with 72 victories, making him the top Canadian ace, and according to some sources, the top ace of the British Empire.

      --
      thank God the internet isn't a human right.
    24. Re:AI Winter by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 1

      Sure... a few neurons can model simple behaviors. But it's NOT just the number of neurons. It's the number of interconnections between them. If you increase the number of neurons linearly, the interconnections increase geometrically.

      All we have managed so far with computers is a linear improvement in computing power. Don't misunderstand me... if you graph it against time it will be curved, undoubtedly. But it's still just an increase in simple quantity. (Much more software and a great deal more hardware.)

      While programs SEEM smarter and smarter, it's just a matter of more quantity. We still haven't had the "breakthrough" that will let us get anywhere near real "AI". I believe that will require a breakthrough that is qualitative, not just quantitative. And we simply haven't had any such... after decades of trying.

    25. Re:AI Winter by oliverthered · · Score: 1

      also lots of John Munro's in lots of wars and stuff...
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Munro

      --
      thank God the internet isn't a human right.
    26. Re:AI Winter by oliverthered · · Score: 1

      that's one war hero and a second war hero.

      now if there's another battle in there, that's a second battle, maybe even a second world war battle.

      --
      thank God the internet isn't a human right.
    27. Re:AI Winter by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 1

      But we don't know how to "simulate the function". We can imitate it -- Watson's natural language processing is pretty good at that, though far from perfect.

      But imitation is not the same thing as achieving or even simulating the actual effect in question. The experimental program Eliza fooled people decades ago into thinking it was a real human, in typed conversation. But Eliza is nothing more than a stupid program, and not a very complex one at that.

    28. Re:AI Winter by MoonBuggy · · Score: 1

      However, there is little real difference. Watson is still just following a fixed set of rules, no matter how complex that set of rules is. Just like Deep Blue, it is completely incapable of dealing with literally anything that falls outside that specific set of rules. Which means that Watson is fundamentally no "smarter" than Deep Blue was.

      Maybe I just misunderstood what you meant by no more special than Deep Blue, but my point was that Watson solves useful real-world problems in a manner with a much wider reach than Deep Blue was ever going to have. I think you're trivialising the creation of the set of rules that Watson operates on, when in fact it's a significantly useful achievement - the more all-encompassing a static rule set becomes, the more we understand about how a self-modifying, 'learning' one should function.

      Even most animal brains that are of complexity near to our own are not capable of the kind of cognition and "self-awareness" that humans attribute to real consciousness.

      Therefore, "sufficient complexity" appears to be extremely complex indeed, as this article [arstechnica.com] clearly implies, with quite a bit of evidence to back it up.

      I don't doubt that any kind of genuine 'thinking' AI is a long way off, but even a basic animal-level system would have a fundamental advantage over current computers, which you touched on yourself: the ability to adapt beyond its pre-defined capabilities.

    29. Re:AI Winter by religious+freak · · Score: 1

      You are picking one of the very few answers Watson got wrong and you're saying he didn't "understand" because the answer doesn't obviously fit in the type of mistake we humans would make. However, it was a mistake. Perhaps an AI would counter (when they are invented) that you don't truly "understand" language.

      Can you statistically relate the way in which all your phrases above interact? Probably not. What is your "understanding" based on.. some ethereal knowledge? I would think that in quantitative terms we are the ones that don't understand language.

      --
      If you can read this... 01110101 01110010 00100000 01100001 00100000 01100111 01100101 01100101 01101011
    30. Re:AI Winter by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 1

      But the power is there... we have all read stories about "human calculators" who could multiply or divide numbers to any number of digits or decimal places in a very short time. And the interesting thing is, those people are almost invariably mentally disabled in other ways... implying that we all have the inherent capability buried somewhere, we just never learned how to use it.

    31. Re:AI Winter by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 1

      "... which you touched on yourself: the ability to adapt beyond its pre-defined capabilities."

      Which, as far as I am concerned, is a fundamental requirement of anything that can really be called "AI". And which does not exist today, in any form.

    32. Re:AI Winter by Surt · · Score: 2

      Every pair of neurons in the brain is not interconnected. At a high end estimate, Each neuron is connected to at most 200K other neurons. This greatly simplifies the problem.

      --
      "Who is the Journal of Quantum Physics going to believe?" --Stephen Hawking
    33. Re:AI Winter by Surt · · Score: 1

      Which game has AI that evolved itself to begin playing a different game?
      That kind of true AI.

      --
      "Who is the Journal of Quantum Physics going to believe?" --Stephen Hawking
    34. Re:AI Winter by Surt · · Score: 1

      If you haven't read the books you are definitely going to be in for quite the shock when Hermione kills Snape under Harry's compulsion. Sorry to ruin it for you.

      --
      "Who is the Journal of Quantum Physics going to believe?" --Stephen Hawking
    35. Re:AI Winter by meekg · · Score: 3, Informative

      no.. Watson didn't understand that HAVING a leg is not peculiar. Watson missed the negative, not the "phrasing in the form of a question"

    36. Re:AI Winter by Rakarra · · Score: 3, Informative

      Watson's answer was correct - he just didn't phrase it the way they want.

      Ah, but the whole point of Watson was that it understand the nuances of human language. Context, phrasing, and so forth.

      And technically, the answer was wrong -- there was nothing wrong with the gymnist's leg. It was that one leg was missing that was the problem.

    37. Re:AI Winter by Lemmy+Caution · · Score: 2

      Ahem: http://www.physorg.com/news/2011-02-neurobiologists-weak-electrical-fields-brain.html

      The brain may be more than just a squishy neural network.

    38. Re:AI Winter by Aeternitas827 · · Score: 1

      Never happen. She's shagging Snape on the side.

      --
      I don't post AC. I like my -1, Flamebaits. Trump/Sheen 2012 on the Batshit Insane ticket!
    39. Re:AI Winter by Lemmy+Caution · · Score: 0

      That is "fantasy AI." Or, as I like to call it, "Turing completeness." I think we recognize many things that wouldn't pass a Turing test as still being real AIs.

    40. Re:AI Winter by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, the natural language processing is impressive. But it takes a really huge computer, and it's really nothing more than a bunch of clever software along with a database of trivia.

      Sounds like most humans...

    41. Re:AI Winter by Chapter80 · · Score: 1

      Why? I don't see anything more special or "AI" in this than in Deep Blue's wins at chess so long ago.

      I don't see what's so special about the lunar landing. It was just building and launching a vehicle powered by rockets with basic math algorithms to lower the craft onto the lunar surface.

      Mankind has been building and launching crafts for thousands of years, traveling our seas and oceans. Rockets had been used earlier than 255 BC. and Newtonian Physics had been known since 1700.

      Big deal.

    42. Re:AI Winter by Lemmy+Caution · · Score: 0

      Brain-fart, I mean "Turing-test complete."

    43. Re:AI Winter by TheLink · · Score: 4, Insightful

      From an anatomical oddity POV, "missing a leg" is different from "leg".

      It shows what Watson does is still at a search engine level.

      Contrast with Jennings' incorrect answer: "missing a hand".

      Both don't know the answer and are guessing, but they are guessing at different levels.

      I suspect in most cases Watson doesn't know the answer and is guessing - it has a lot of raw data and is very very good at sorting and filtering. But it does not have a very good model of the world that the Jeopardy game is about.

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    44. Re:AI Winter by Neil+Boekend · · Score: 1

      Or, as far as I know, these people may have a brain that is formed with the inherent capability to work easily with absolutes. This may even hinder their ability to approximate. The result would be an brain that is seen as mentally disabled, since normal human interactions require approximation. To me it seems that these people are "a test", genetic abnormalities that are evolution itself. In this light most of us would choose to see them as "failed experiments of evolution, let's move on". I am not sure if that is correct.
      Disclaimer: IANANS, IANAP

      --
      Well, I might have a way, but it only works on a semi spherical planet in a vacuum.
    45. Re:AI Winter by Rakarra · · Score: 1

      One of the ways that Watson could be different is that Watson is writing its own rules. Instead of playing with the ruleset that it was given, it refines and adds its own rules to deal with failure, learning and reacting.

    46. Re:AI Winter by shaitand · · Score: 2

      It does it if makes them for the same reason.

    47. Re:AI Winter by Rakarra · · Score: 1

      No one has, it's not even out yet!

    48. Re:AI Winter by Omestes · · Score: 1

      There COULD be something magical about the human brain. But we have modeled the brains of animals with fewer neurons successfully and they are made of pretty much the same stuff just in lower quantities.

      This always ignored me about the AI and CogSci crowds. They often confuse their metaphors. "The brain is like a computer" != "the brain is a computer". Even this is backwards, since a computer is more like brain than a brain like a computer. The current vogue is the "computational" model of cognition, but this doesn't transcend mere metaphor either, we mapped computer lingo and bits to the human brain.

      Its like mapping your physiology to a motor vehicle; yes there are some very rough correspondences, but beyond this there is pretty much no similarity. The only reason we don't call "bullshit" on the brain::computer metaphor is that the brain is still a bit mysterious (okay, extremely, we probably don't even understand 10% yet), and most people find computers to be, basically, black boxes, just like the brain (input in, mysterious stuff happens, output).

      Just because the brain isn't a computer doesn't make it magical, just like the fact that you aren't an automobile doesn't make your physiology magical. This isn't a black and white thing. Your brain probably functions in a pretty damn unique way, completely unlike many other things that also "compute" (especially since computation is a rather new development), and when it does compute it computes in a way completely different than an abacus, computer, or slide rule.

      That said, I'm sure someday we'll have decent AI, though probably not in mine or my unborn children's life time. This AI will probably be either completely incomprehensible to us (and us to it), or developed by some other technique than the ones we are working on today. I personally don't see the point (outside of the nice geeky "because we can"), what would AI do for us? If we develop a "human like" intelligence it will probably be because we already understand the brain enough to model it, meaning its actual academic value is a bit wanting. I doubt it would make much economic sense either, since it would be as bad as a human worker. Unless, of course, we develop some "perfect" intelligence, and then why the hell would it want to control a factory for no benefit to itself?

      --
      A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government. -edward abbey
    49. Re:AI Winter by shaitand · · Score: 1

      The electrical fields would just be another form of connection between neurons. That would still leave us with a squishy neural network.

    50. Re:AI Winter by Omestes · · Score: 1

      This greatly simplifies the problem.

      And leaves it several orders of magnitude beyond our current knowledge and techniques.

      --
      A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government. -edward abbey
    51. Re:AI Winter by Man+On+Pink+Corner · · Score: 1

      Each neuron is connected to at most 200K other neurons. This greatly simplifies the problem.

      Yeah, but they're starting to think there may be some 'wireless' interaction between neurons via electric fields, too.

      In other words: well, shit. The human-level AI goalposts just got moved back another light year or two.

    52. Re:AI Winter by Omestes · · Score: 1

      When people say "real AI" I interpret it as "Strong AI", i.e. human-like intelligence.

      A bot in a video game is "weak AI", it is simple, and generally a unitasker. A QuakeIII bot isn't going to stop shooting me and question the purpose of fighting, nor is it going to decide to quit fighting and go browse Wikipedia instead. Hell, most bots in games (and other AIs) are very weak, they often can't actually learn beyond some very scripted and procedural levels. Most of them can be tricked very easily in such a way that they will never, ever, have a chance of learning (if they are capable in the first place). I'm sure I could script a game of Jeopardy in such a way that Watson loses 100% of the time (barring programmer interference).

      I also can't see Watson, much less game AI, passing the Turing Test. Which, to many, is the entry level to being considered strong AI.*

      * though I disagree with many AI affictionados, I doubt the Turing Test, itself, indicates a true strong AI, it just shows indications that it is possible.

      --
      A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government. -edward abbey
    53. Re:AI Winter by Rockoon · · Score: 2

      The human brain is not anything like the computers we build today, except to say that they can both "compute", to varying degrees.

      You are arguing that because the hardware of a computer is nothing like the hardware of a human that this supports your point, but it doesnt. It is only if the software running on the computer was nothing like the software of a human that you would have a point.

      All of todays CPU's are universal turing machine, and that fact negates every single hardware argument. We've heard this all before, from people saying that current computers arent fast enough to simulate the human brain (your arstechnica link makes this claim in a round-about way, but fails to realize that the simulation does not have the be real-time) to this tripe about Von Neumann architectures not "working like a brain" (why does the hardware itself have to work like the brain?)

      Basically, you are parroting the fallacious "pop sci" arguments that have no bearing on what real computer scientists know. Now, for sure this Watson wasn't "thinking like a human", but that is not the crap that you just spewed at us. You went off on the hardware bullshit and further linked to the speed bullshit.

      --
      "His name was James Damore."
    54. Re:AI Winter by Aeternitas827 · · Score: 1

      Epic Facepalm

      Writes out cheque for 1,000 cool points, made out to the internet

      Dumbledore died in Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince, released theatrically in 2009.

      --
      I don't post AC. I like my -1, Flamebaits. Trump/Sheen 2012 on the Batshit Insane ticket!
    55. Re:AI Winter by Rockoon · · Score: 1

      That sort of thing would only add a logarithmic term to the runtime complexity (see logarithmic methods in N-body gravity simulations), so can simply be ignored for the purposes of this conversation.

      To boot, I think most people are ignoring even higher level methods than simple neuron sims. We are talking about a rather sloppy "device", after all. The specific state of a single neuron just doesnt mean much (the physical effects of motion guarantee that.)

      --
      "His name was James Damore."
    56. Re:AI Winter by Rockoon · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Watson is still just following a fixed set of rules

      So are you. We call it physics.

      --
      "His name was James Damore."
    57. Re:AI Winter by brillow · · Score: 1

      What do you mean by "understand"? I am frustrated sometimes because people who poo poo achievements in AI will often claim a given AI doesn't "understand" something, but never exactly explain what they mean by that in a measurable way. So, what do you mean?

    58. Re:AI Winter by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I so know what you mean!
      I myself refuse to acknowledge any so-called "robot" unless it is humanoid, sapient, and obeys the three laws of robotics. This whole robotics industry is a complete sham, with their fancy agreed-upon terminology and doing research and engineering to solve real-world problems.

    59. Re:AI Winter by Lemmy+Caution · · Score: 1

      I'm really not so sure it's going to be that tidy. This whole field of research is still up in the air - what seem to be epiphenomena turn out not to be. Perhaps elements of consciousness itself are in brain dynamics that are considered epiphenomenal at this time. I'm not saying that it's a waste of time to get neural nets smarter: I've just been around to see the check of AI continue to be impossible to cash, and cognition and consciousness (not to mention plasticity) get surprisingly more complicated every couple of years, rather than simpler. Perhaps these electrical fields play a role in the binding problem in ways that would be difficult to work out by squeezing it back into a network. No one really knows at this point.

    60. Re:AI Winter by John+Meacham · · Score: 1

      There is a particularly relevant quote:

      "The question of whether a computer can think is no more interesting than the question of whether a submarine can swim."
            - Edsger Dijkstra

      Watson is incredibly impressive. Natural language processing is an extremely complex task. like absurdly. It took 750 8 cpu systems and 16 terrabytes of RAM to implement watson and that was stretched to the limit.

      --
      http://notanumber.net/
    61. Re:AI Winter by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      >Watson showed very clearly how deeply it did not "understand" anything about what it was doing, via the nature of the blunders that it did make.

      You clearly don't watch TV games.

    62. Re:AI Winter by eddy · · Score: 1

      Which is exactly what is always said when progress is demonstrated in the very wide field that is AI. We got to go there before we can go THERE.

      --
      Belief is the currency of delusion.
    63. Re:AI Winter by HungryHobo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Ah the forever shifting goalposts of AI.
      http://www.dansdata.com/gz107.htm

      ""A machine will never be able to read the written word."
      "A machine will never understand speech."
      "A machine will never be able to look at something and figure out what 3D shape it is."
      "A machine will never drive a car."
      "A machine will never play chess."
      "A machine will never play chess well."
      "A machine will never beat a chess Grandmaster."
      "A machine will never beat my favourite chess Grandmaster."

      Go back far enough and you can find people making these same sorts of predictions about tasks that seem simple today. Arithmetic, algebra, spell-checking - all were clearly Things Only the Mind of Man (and of a Few Unusually Intelligent Women, Bless 'Em) Could Ever Do."

      "But a funny thing always happens, right after a machine does whatever it is that people previously declared a machine would never do. What happens is, that particular act is demoted from the rarefied world of "artificial intelligence", to mere "automation" or "software engineering".

      Apparently, you see, when they said "a machine will never be able to spot-weld a car together", they meant to say "a machine will never be aware that it's welding a car together". So all of those production-line robots aren't actually a triumph of artificial intelligence at all, any more than aircraft autopilots or optical character recognition or the square-root button on a calculator - which, after all, merely duplicated a perfectly obvious slide-rule operation - are.

      But don't worry. Once someone comes up with a computer that can carry on an intelligent IM chat with you, that'll be proper AI. (And a machine will never do it, of course!)"

      Now of course we can cross off "A machine will never be able to beat the champion at jeopardy"
      but of course that's trivial really.... and look at the mistakes it made while beating one of the best human players. obviously since it made odd mistakes it isn't really a triumph of AI.

    64. Re:AI Winter by AlienIntelligence · · Score: 0

      So... it's going to be a very long while before we can make a single computer anywhere near that powerful. Much less make it fit in a pocket.

      Watson is a good demonstration of what modern software -- with the aid of an outrageous shitload of processing power, even by today's standards -- can do in the area of natural language processing. Nothing more. And even that has a long way to go.

      A very long while? How old are you? I mean, I'm not "goin there" but my cell
      phone is more powerful than computers from the 90's AND it goes online too,
      faster than computers from the 90's. That was ~15 years ago. If, well I guess
      WHEN I have a [cell] phone/pocket appliance that is faster than my desktop
      right now, in 10-15 years... I am going to be just as amazed at the shrinking
      of processing power. (although the cloud will have probably won by then)

      An outrageous shitload of processing power? Lol... that computer was TINY
      You did watch the same show, right? 10 racks. That's all... just 10. A small
      "pocket computer" by heavy iron standards. Barely gets it in the top 100.
      Gotta beat 31.2 TFlops to get in the top 500.

      Of course in 2005, it would have been the 3rd fastest computer. But that was
      so 6+ years ago.

      It's pretty obvious by how badly ORNL's Jaguar was passed that the peak flops
      barriers are falling. Especially with the use of GPGPU computing. A pretty
      effortless (appearing) jump of 44% considering the floor of the same list only
      jumped from 25Tfl to 32Tfl in 6 months, 28%. We're going to see the list stretch
      with the new breed of supercomputers coming out.

      Keeping the same low-end growth level, that's 2 years by the time Watson won't
      even be considered a top 500 supercomputer. We know it's going to be MUCH
      sooner than that with all these entry-level GPU "boxes" coming in to play. It
      could easily be a year before Watson is no longer "fast".

      I honestly can't believe the negativity I'm seeing in these posts against Watson.
      I mean, if it was a person, I'd say it sounds petty enough that it's almost shouting
      of jealousy? Maybe mixed with fear?

      I think it's awesome how well Watson did. 'He' really did spank their asses on the
      2nd day. I even felt like Brad kinda gave up near the end of day 2. No offense if
      you read this Brad, I mean, at least I saw Ken's arm or his shoulder jerk a few
      times on the 2nd day, lol.

      Watson is much, much more than a "search engine" as one person said, lol.
      And THAT if anything is offensive to all the brilliant people that put time into
      this project.

      I agree with what Ken put in his final jeopardy answer box. And I wouldn't mind
      seeing a weekly computer v human match ala jeopardy. Not only that, the game
      pace was smokin.

      -AI
      ahhh yes, apropos

      --
      For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion
    65. Re:AI Winter by ultranova · · Score: 1

      Why? I don't see anything more special or "AI" in this than in Deep Blue's wins at chess so long ago.

      Then perhaps you should look harder. Both are examples of problem-solving, which is pretty much the definition of intelligence.

      But then again, AI Winter was over a long time ago, if it ever even really existed in the first place. All of our society runs on AI, from our logistics systems to our power grid to our manufacturing plants to the very Internet itself. Automation is what drives increases in production nowadays, and arguably have since the start of Industrial Revolution.

      There's something in human psychology that tries to make intelligence seem mystical (see Chinese Room nonsense for a good example). The unfortunate result is that if you understand how something works, it becomes de-mystified, and gets disqualified as an example of "true" intelligence - even if the task performed is actually beyond human capabilities, such as simulating a nuclear explosion, beating Gasparov in chess, or finding a relevant Web page from a sea of crud.

      Yes, the natural language processing is impressive. But it takes a really huge computer, and it's really nothing more than a bunch of clever software along with a database of trivia.

      Of course it takes a huge computer: the task is very, very, very demanding. The reason why human births are so painful and risky is that human heads are so big; and the reason they are so big is that they need to house human brains. There's an evolutionary pressure towards growing them larger still, which balances against the chances of dying at childbirth, and the fact that the balance has stabilized at the point of a significant risk shows that humans could actually use more processing power.

      Of course, as a side note, this also means that with C-sections being pretty much routine medicine nowadays, human heads should evolve larger. Is there any evidence of this happening?

      Watson showed very clearly how deeply it did not "understand" anything about what it was doing, via the nature of the blunders that it did make.

      True. Deep Blue, on the other hand, did understand chess - that is, it had a mental model of the game, which it could manipulate to see the potential consequences of its choices before making them.

      Natural language processing is very important, because it allows computers to build such models by themselves. Natural language allows the transference of a model of any complexity between two entities, and the negotiation of special-purpose languages - such as matemathics - for more efficient transfer of certain kinds of models. Since it allows the transfer of such models, it can also represent them within a hardware system, even if said hardware system lacks a "native" functionality to perform such manipulation; for example, human brain doesn't have neural pathways for integration, but can perform it nonetheless through language processing.

      So no, Watson is not a general purpose AI, but it's an important step that way.

      --

      Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.

    66. Re:AI Winter by ultranova · · Score: 2

      All we have managed so far with computers is a linear improvement in computing power.

      Actually, computing power grows exponentially.

      --

      Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.

    67. Re:AI Winter by ultranova · · Score: 1

      But even if you did believe that they worked in fundamentally the same way, THIS article from just the other day claims that the best estimate so far is that all the computing power in the world today, including Watson, Deep Blue, all the Crays, desktops, and all the way down to cell phones, added together... is equivalent to approximately the computing and storage power of a single human brain.

      The fine article claims that "Our total storage capacity is the same as an adult human's DNA". Yet human DNA has been sequenced and is available for download (link to chromosome 1, increase the number (3502, 3503 etc) to get the rest), totalling a few gigabytes as uncompressed text files. So I find the articles other claims somewhat dubious.

      --

      Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.

    68. Re:AI Winter by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ... it's really nothing more than a bunch of clever software along with a database of trivia.

      OK, so how would YOU encode it?

    69. Re:AI Winter by Zediker · · Score: 1

      Actually, watson's answer was logically correct, Jeopardy's phrasing was logically wrong, but socially correct. The anitomical oddity was the athlete's leg, because it was missing. If it were asked something like "what oddity did the athlete possess" then "missing leg" would be correct and "leg" would be wrong.

      --
      I love to slaughter the english language.
    70. Re:AI Winter by GospelHead821 · · Score: 1

      What you're saying reminds me of some of the work of the philosopher, Ludwig Wittgenstein. He focused primarily on the interplay between language and thought. In "The Brown Book," he describes a series of language games. For example, consider a man who can identify building materials because he has a diagram that has pictures next to the written words "brick," "plank," and "peg." (That might be where Watson is right now.) How does that situation differ from a man who has memorized the diagram but still mentally calls it to mind when asked to identify a brick, plank, or peg? How is it different from a man who does not consciously imagine the diagram at all? Intuitively, there appears to be an important difference that is difficult to pin down between interpreting a word based on a rule and interpreting it "cognitively."
      Of course, Wittgenstein gets too deep for me pretty frequently. This game repeats itself endlessly as you drill down into any given example. How is it, for example, that the man identifies the sound of the word "brick" with the word "brick" written on his diagram?

      --
      Virtue finds and chooses the mean.
      Aristotle, Ethica Nichomachea
    71. Re:AI Winter by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Erm, no, what we've been managing so far is a geometric improvement in computing power. ;-)

    72. Re:AI Winter by Aero · · Score: 1

      My wife and I spent a good 5-10 minutes after Tuesday's show trying to figure out how Watson came up with Toronto. I run big server iron for the day job, she's an editor and language geek, so between the two of us, we're as good as any amateurs can be at analyzing the faults in a natural-language AI. :)

      The best we could come up with was a combination of factors. For the sake of completeness, here's the clue again:

      "Its largest airport is named after a World War II hero; its second largest, after a World War II battle."

      Watson worked on key words/phrases in the clue. If you make an assumption that repeated words are less likely to be key words (a quick way to eliminate articles, prepositions, and other filler), then the only unique words in this clue are: airport, named, hero, second, battle.

      It's only a recent trend to name buildings after people using both their first and last names. Most just have the last name, and that last name could refer to a lot of people without knowing other context. Chicago O'Hare...heck, it wasn't until Tuesday night that I realized that it referred to naval aviator Butch O'Hare. (I did guess the clue before time was up.) Watson's word association database wouldn't have had that kind of context available, probably.

      Without going into an extensive search of airports in North America (or the world) named after people, we did see that Toronto has an airport unequivocally named after a "battle hero". (That being Billy Bishop). But without other stuff in the clue to work with, that led to a lot of uncertainty. Hence five question marks.

      --
      We can believe in you for 3 minutes, but beyond that, even the King of All Cosmos can't be expected to wait.
    73. Re:AI Winter by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Our total storage capacity is the same as an adult human's DNA"

      The total storage capacity thing was tricky - they meant if you wrote on every DNA molecule in every cell in the Human body..
      So a few Gb x number if cells (including bacteria??) - lets say 10^12

      so several Zb - zettabytes.

    74. Re:AI Winter by HungryHobo · · Score: 2

      " THIS article from just the other day"

      What the hell.
      this is complete bullshit.
      utter utter bullshit.

      "Our total storage capacity is the same as an adult human's DNA. And there are several billion humans on the planet. "

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_genome:
      3 billion DNA base pairs

      even storing it in plain text without compression that's only 3 gigabytes.
      my external hard drive could store that 1000 times over.

      "the 6.4*10^18 instructions per second that human kind can carry out "

      6.4*10^18=
      6400000000000000000 instructions per second

      http://www.cs.bham.ac.uk/~jxb/INC/l2.pdf

      "The human brain is extremely energy efficient, using approximately 10-16 joules
      per operation per second, whereas the best computers today use around 10-6 joules
      per operation per second."

      6400000000000000000/(10^16)

      640 joules per second.

      1 food calorie = 4.2 kilojoules

      1 Cal every 6.5625 seconds.

      Seconds in a day:86400

      86400/6.5625=13165 calories per day just to keep your brain running.

      actual figure:400 and 500 calories per day

    75. Re:AI Winter by BobGregg · · Score: 1

      Several review articles have mentioned that category titles were deliberately given very low weight in Watson's algorithms, because they can be so tricky. Hence, it didn't pay much attention to the need for a U.S. City.

    76. Re:AI Winter by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There is one unshifting definition to what AI is:
      "AI is what a computer can not do just now."

      (Or maybe something in better english. Sorry, I'm not a native speaker.)

      It's similar to: "AI is making a machine do things humans can do better."
      With increasing computation technology the exact meaning changes, but the wording stays the same.

    77. Re:AI Winter by gtall · · Score: 1

      All of today's CPUs are NOT Turing machines. Turing machines have an infinite tape, that's memory to CPUs. The whole essence of the Turing Complete Problems is that they are unbounded.

    78. Re:AI Winter by technomom · · Score: 1

      The way I see it, there's a whole lot of armchair quarterbacks and Internet tough guys who have never built a machine that can beat two Grand champions at Jeopardy.

      Ferrucci and team did. No one else has.

      Yes, it wasn't perfect. But it was the first time. Version 1.0. You're talking about taking a machine that doesn't speak English, teaching it English, and having it play a quiz show that features a lot of cultural lingo and wordplay. Try to take a non-English speaker anywhere and get them to play the game competently and you'll get a sense of the challenge.

      Put up or shut up if you think you can do better.

    79. Re:AI Winter by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Except (based on the vast majority of personal experiences) for the clever software part.

    80. Re:AI Winter by realityimpaired · · Score: 1

      As another poster pointed out, Watson ignored the category, which was "US Cities". Toronto isn't in the US.

      Without going into an extensive search of airports in North America (or the world) named after people, we did see that Toronto has an airport unequivocally named after a "battle hero". (That being Billy Bishop). But without other stuff in the clue to work with, that led to a lot of uncertainty. Hence five question marks.

      And yeah, Toronto does have an airport named after a battle hero. But that airport isn't even close to the largest airport in Toronto. Or the GTA, for that matter. Billy Bishop (YTZ) is actually pretty small... in fact, it's smaller than the one where I take private flying lessons (YRP), even though that airport is actually an old military airfield located in a small town in Ontario, about 45 minutes west of the nearest major city, and neither is even close, in size or annual travellers, to Pearson International (YYZ). Pearson, of course, is named after Lester B. Pearson, who was a Prime Minister in the '60's, not a war hero in WWII or WWI.

    81. Re:AI Winter by sirrunsalot · · Score: 1

      I hate myself for being so pedantic, but I do believe that it's called a "wrong question."

    82. Re:AI Winter by osgeek · · Score: 1

      I find your lack of understanding and vision disturbing. :)

      Watson does much more than simply match words. It understands word play and natural language. Did you not see that demonstrated over and over? Sure, it misunderstood some things, but the correct answers it got were astounding. It's astounding to realize that we saw that performance in Watson 1.0.

      Watson 1.0 answers questions. It answered Jeopardy questions far better and faster than the two best players EVER.

      Imagine Watson 3.0 available to answer questions online in five years. Imagine Watson 5.0 on your desktop in 10 to 15 years, able to answer every question you pose. No more trying to think through possible matching key words to get Google results. Instead you ask a real question and get a really smart answer.

      Imagine if your doctor fed your test results, genome, and medical history into a medical version of Watson 3.1. Suddenly you get a diagnosis and treatment plan better than the best doctor in the world could have previously given you.

    83. Re:AI Winter by phaggood · · Score: 1

      Only if you define "a long while" as "somewhat less than a century"

    84. Re:AI Winter by boxwood · · Score: 1

      I think Pearson was actually a pilot in WWI, though yeah, not a hero like Billy Bishop

    85. Re:AI Winter by boxwood · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Shifting goal post? Uh I'm pretty sure the goal post has always been the Turing Test, and that was set before computers were invented.

    86. Re:AI Winter by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There is a particularly relevant quote:

      "The question of whether a computer can think is no more interesting than the question of whether a submarine can swim." - Edsger Dijkstra

      I also like this one: Can I have more cocaine? - Lenny Dykstra

    87. Re:AI Winter by Merk42 · · Score: 1

      Watson is still just following a fixed set of rules,

      Pff, some AI Ken Jennings had, he followed the fixed set of Jeopardy rules. If he really wanted to win he should have gone over to Trebek and asked for the question ahead of time, or eliminated the competition by disconnecting their buzzers.

    88. Re:AI Winter by Merk42 · · Score: 1

      I guess we need a "True Scotsman" to write the AI?

    89. Re:AI Winter by Mr.+Slippery · · Score: 1

      What would true AI be? Most games have true AI these days.

      It's been said that AI is whatever we don't know how to do yet. I see a lot of that in this discussion -- "we can do this now, so making computers do this is just a trick, not AI."

      --
      Tom Swiss | the infamous tms | my blog
      You cannot wash away blood with blood
    90. Re:AI Winter by elrous0 · · Score: 1

      Well, at least we can sleep well knowing that a machine will never take over the world and start a nuclear war.

      --
      SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
    91. Re:AI Winter by elrous0 · · Score: 1

      Imagine paring Watson 5.0 with a really advanced voice-to-text app. You could get very close to a computer that could pass the Turing test.

      --
      SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
    92. Re:AI Winter by AaxelB · · Score: 2

      I think the value of the Turing test is that strong AI would be able to pass it, so if something fails the test you know it's *not* strong AI. If a system passes the Turing test, well, it may be strong AI, but it's not conclusive.

    93. Re:AI Winter by Admiral_Grinder · · Score: 1

      The Nova special addressed the category issue somewhat. They say they feed the right answers to the machine after each question. However, it took it a few questions to understand the category. I didn't watch, but was this one of the earlier questions asked from this category or was it a later?

    94. Re:AI Winter by Culture20 · · Score: 1

      there was nothing wrong with the gymnist's leg. It was that one leg was missing that was the problem.

      Being gone is one of the biggest problems one can have with one's leg, right behind having the leg turn evil and plot against the rest of the body.

    95. Re:AI Winter by CastrTroy · · Score: 1

      Well, According to wikipedia, Lester B. Pearson did fight in the first world war. Although I don't know if he's considered a war hero. He's much more known for being prime minister.

      --

      Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
    96. Re:AI Winter by Fibe-Piper · · Score: 1

      The difference with Jeopardy is that the answer would never be "what is a brick" as the daily double with the image up on the displays being a picture of a brick (unless it was the SNL version). There are subtleties based on the current social lexicon as well as contextual prompts in the catagory that need to be "understood" before the answer can be thought up.

      --
      I went to battle M.C. Escher, but drew a blank.
    97. Re:AI Winter by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I really expect more from a Slashdot comment than what you wrote. Kind of saddening. First, the present-day size of the hardware is irrelevant so that gripe of yours doesn't hold any weight. Then, the way you dismiss this accomplishment as "nothing more than a bunch of clever software with a database" is extremely shortsighted. It proves you have no idea how complicated AI research is and really have nothing insightful to add to the discussion. Your demand that Watson "understand" also proves this. You seemed to expect Watson to be a perfectly functioning Turing Test-passable program, a benchmark that is still far away from present-day research. Meanwhile, you fail to realize just how much of a giant leap this is towards that goal. Your comment is sort of like saying, "yeah we landed on the Moon but we didn't it to the stars". What Watson was doing very well could be a prerequisite for the understanding that you are demanding. With further improvements, Watson may start to display what you would consider understanding. Who knows! I don't. You don't. Nobody does. But it's worth exploring. (And if you haven't noticed, human beings make "giant" blunders too.)

    98. Re:AI Winter by kevinNCSU · · Score: 1

      If nothing else, it (in combination with some decent speech recognition software) brings us one step closer to a Star Trek style voice interface, and that's a damn worthwhile cause in my book!

      This is sadly not true. Watson couldn't actually see or hear anything and the clues had to be fed to him electronically. Still impressive NLP but no speech recognition.

      When clues are read by the host they are fed electronically to Watson, which parses the text, formulates hunches and checks all the evidence it can retrieve to test its hunches and then generates its five best answers, assigning each a confidence level before deciding whether to buzz in. (source)

    99. Re:AI Winter by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Also, wasn't it said that there was no AI involved? I hardly see where there was any AI or any machine learning.

    100. Re:AI Winter by gorzek · · Score: 1

      This is an excellent point and worth further exploration.

      Human life is a very "fuzzy" experience. Our environment is always changing. The people we know are always changing. We simply can't rely on absolute, concrete processing because it would cripple us in our daily lives. Consider that you can still recognize a friend or family member when they wear different clothes, get a haircut, shave, and even if you haven't seen them in a long time. It might take you a moment to place them, depending on how much they've changed and how long it's been, but you'll still get that spark of recognition rather quickly. From your own perspective, it also doesn't take much thought--it tends to be fairly automatic. Our ability to recognize and correlate fuzzy patterns and map them to things we're already familiar with is pretty incredible and we understand it very poorly.

      While we have computers that can do facial recognition, it's computationally intensive and still has a lot of flaws. We also recognize people based on more subtle cues, like posture and body language. I don't think computers have even begun to take that kind of holistic approach to quickly and accurately recognizing a person. On the other hand, if you give a computer a retina or a thumbprint to scan, it can do this to great accuracy and it's nearly impossible for a human to do it--again, because a retinal pattern or thumbprint is a very concrete, absolute, definitive mark that doesn't change much over time.

      I think AI will be stuck in a rut as a science as long as it keeps trying to emulate human brain activity with equipment suited to digital computation. Its nature is just too different from our own brains, and at best it seems like we'll end up with simulations that can mimic the brains of small animals but not the complexity and power of a higher mammalian brain.

    101. Re:AI Winter by HungryHobo · · Score: 1

      well it's model of the world is good enough to beat the best human player so it's at least acceptable.

    102. Re:AI Winter by paiute · · Score: 3, Funny

      ... really nothing more than a bunch of clever software along with a database of trivia.

      Why do you hate Ken Jennings?

      --
      If Slashdot were chemistry it would look like this:Cadaverine
    103. Re:AI Winter by HungryHobo · · Score: 2

      I like your motor vehicle-body comparison.
      But to match it to what people say about AI remember to include hordes of people insisting that motor vehicles are no use because they

      "can't galop like a horse"
      and
      "what would you even do with one which could travel as far or fast as a horse, surely it would just take as much hay to feed and would get angry just as much."

      really all the fuss about the internal combustion engine is just a waste of time an effort.

    104. Re:AI Winter by Culture20 · · Score: 1

      Yes, the natural language processing is impressive. But it takes a really huge computer, and it's really nothing more than a bunch of clever software along with a database of trivia.

      Slap a neckbeard on that puppy and stick it in a slashdotter's mom's basement.

    105. Re:AI Winter by MoonBuggy · · Score: 1

      Watson couldn't actually see or hear anything and the clues had to be fed to him electronically. Still impressive NLP but no speech recognition.

      I know, that's why I said "in combination with some decent speech recognition software" - as in the software parses sound into text, which is then passed to Watson to be 'understood' and acted upon. Obviously the speech part is not in any way trivial, but there are many people working on the problem, and passing the text output across to Watson once the accuracy is sufficient is trivial; if anything, the language parsing algorithms could actually help in being somewhat forgiving of audio parsing errors.

    106. Re:AI Winter by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So you're saying AI doesn't exist?

    107. Re:AI Winter by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ""A machine will never be able to read the written word."

      It still doesn't "read" the way you do, it certainly doesn't understand, or are you implying that computers doing OCR are reading and understanding?

      ""A machine will never understand speech."

      Same question. Just because you can program a bunch of filters and algorithms to maybe get a 90% success rate of correlating a certain noise pattern to a given action, it doesn't mean anything. You could program it to recognize a burp and have it say "thank you". So what?

      None of the things you mentioned make any sense. A machine will never wash my clothes. I have a washing machine. *AI* wow!!!

      Insanity. Delusional crackpottery at worst, utter misunderstanding of what is actually happening at best.

    108. Re:AI Winter by JTsyo · · Score: 1

      I doubt that since people that have the ability to do complex calculations and can explain what they think describe it as combining colors or shapes. The seem to be using analog representation for numbers and working with those.

    109. Re:AI Winter by CastrTroy · · Score: 1

      I was thinking about this the other day. 3 billion base pairs, but each pair can only have 1 of 4 values, ACGT. If you chose to encode those letters in ascii, then each base pair would take up 1 byte. However, you only need to store 4 different values, so you only need 2 bits. a = 00, c = 01, g = 10, t = 11. So in each byte, you should be able to store 4 base pairs. There is no advantage as far as computer processing goes to storing the data in ascii. It's much more efficient in terms of computation to store it in binary format. which means that 3 billion base pairs would only take 750 Megs to store, or under a terabyte.

      --

      Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
    110. Re:AI Winter by JTsyo · · Score: 1

      One of Ken's strategies was to go for the big value questions first since Watson would learn from the other questions in the same category. It can better understand what the categories are about from the questions but I'm not sure that it would carry over to other similar categories.

    111. Re:AI Winter by JTsyo · · Score: 1

      A true AI would have refused to play the game since it would be using its cycles for a useless purpose and it already knows it can out think the meatbags.

    112. Re:AI Winter by kevinNCSU · · Score: 1

      Ah, yea, I totally misread that, my bad.

    113. Re:AI Winter by Omestes · · Score: 1

      I agree with your assessment. I have read some authors, and participated in some debates with people who have decided that passing a Turing test is enough to qualify it as AI. I find this silly for two reasons; the first being that it presumes that intelligence is merely the ability to hold a conversation. This ignores both the "inner" aspects (creativity, day dreaming, emotional states, etc...), and other external abilities (does it paint, doodle in the phone book while parsing the DNS tables).
      The second is that tt also ignores the fact that the appearance of intelligence is not intelligence; If I build a model of a horse that you can't tell isn't a real horse from a certain distance, it doesn't magically turn into a horse.

      I think the AI has a deeper problem though; wtf does actually intelligence mean? Back in college the psychology capstone I took was titled "Animal Intelligence", which was a nice philosophical backdoor to the question of what intelligence is, how we can measure it, and how could we recognize it in non-humans. The fundamental problem that I found in the class (which the teacher refused to let me spread, but greatly enjoyed since it was his secret point, him being a crony with the philosophy department) was that we measure intelligence solely on our own yardstick (in comparison to recognized human traits), and it is difficult to move this beyond human experience. Often we read "intelligence" as "human like", which isn't actually contained in the definition. There is no reason that intelligence must be human like. But then we run into a nice "black box" problem, all we have access to is inputs and outputs, and not to any actual process. Which makes Turing tests sound nice and viable, but then they only measure "humanness" in the end. A dolphin (if they are intelligent) would fail a Turing test, as a hypothetical extra-terrestrial.

      --
      A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government. -edward abbey
    114. Re:AI Winter by ultranova · · Score: 1

      The total storage capacity thing was tricky - they meant if you wrote on every DNA molecule in every cell in the Human body..

      Except, of course, human body is not able to store information that way. In fact, having cells differ by their DNA usually causes all kinds of complications, such as rejection by immune system.

      Now I have even less confidence on the apparently completely nonsensical article.

      --

      Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.

    115. Re:AI Winter by tixxit · · Score: 1

      I'd say almost all of those goal posts were set before the modern computint era. Text and speech recognition, computer vision, playing chess, etc. have all been goals set a long long time ago. Heck, speech recognition devices have been around for over 50 years now. I'd say, by the 1960s, and with the dawn of modern silicon based computers, all of these goals would've been stated in one way or another.

    116. Re:AI Winter by jgagnon · · Score: 1

      Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, as the saying goes, but that doesn't mean the imitator has the same intelligence as the imitated. A parrot is a good example of this.

      --
      Remember to maintain your supply of /facepalm oil to prevent chafing.
    117. Re:AI Winter by Culture20 · · Score: 1

      "A machine will never understand speech."
      And one hasn't yet. They've responded to speech, but they've not understood it. The difference between the two lies in epistemology, not computer science.

    118. Re:AI Winter by Digital+Vomit · · Score: 1

      Watson's answer was correct - he just didn't phrase it the way they want.

      No, Watson's answer was both incorrect and not phrased properly. If Watson had prefaced his response with "What is...", it would have still been incorrect because it was missing the critical information that the leg was missing. An "anatomical oddity" with a leg could also have been something else (much shorter than the other, on backwards, whatever)

      --
      Modern copyright is theft of culture from everyone and it retards the progress of the useful arts and sciences.
    119. Re:AI Winter by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is all fine and dandy, but where are these fuckable computers we were promised. Who cares about Jeopardy, we want a computer that can screw!

    120. Re:AI Winter by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      Consciousness is just the emergent behaviour of organic computing hardware and software

      And you can prove that how exactly?

      there's no reason that a sufficiently complex artificial system couldn't eventually show similar emergent behaviour, intentional or otherwise.

      When you say "intentional" are you referring to the designers of the artificial system, or the artificial system itself? Because if the system can't have its own intentions, you can not say it has consciousness any more than a rock rolling down a hill.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    121. Re:AI Winter by TheLink · · Score: 1

      You don't need a model of the world to be better than humans or other animals at specific stuff.

      Can it really understand "cow is to grass" as "car is to gasoline"? Rather than just give the most statistical likely answer because many similar sentences by various people is in its petabyte database? By understand I mean that if it encounters something new, would it be able to understand that Entity X has an analogous relationship to Object Y as cows have with grass and thus store that accordingly? Or wonder if new Entity Z has a "grass" that it "eats"?

      Even not very intelligent animals automatically build a model of the world which helps them:
      1) Filter out boring predictable stuff from "WTF/OMG" moments
      2) Predict possible futures (including behaviour of other entities) and pick desired outcomes.
      When the modeling includes recursive modeling of "self" then the creature starts to behave more consciously.

      Watson is definitely impressive. But unless I underestimate its capabilities (based on what I see), it's not that impressive as an AI.

      --
    122. Re:AI Winter by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Very good comment.

      Watsen will be portable to medical diagonistics, as well as many more things. It is great progess.

      1980 to 2010, crazy changes...

      Imagine 2050?

    123. Re:AI Winter by GospelHead821 · · Score: 1

      I was simply trying to draw an analogy, as was Wittgenstein. Of course Watson's "diagram" is more complicated than that. The fact remains that Watson's algorithm consists of some analog to consciously consulting a table of data. Wittgenstein tries to examine that transition from consulting tables to just knowing and to consider why we consider these to be two distinct modes of thought.

      --
      Virtue finds and chooses the mean.
      Aristotle, Ethica Nichomachea
    124. Re:AI Winter by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      Watson is still just following a fixed set of rules

      So are you. We call it physics.

      That's right, there is no such thing as free will or consciousness.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    125. Re:AI Winter by whereiswaldo · · Score: 1

      Once computer AI evolves beyond our comprehension, that'll be true AI.

    126. Re:AI Winter by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Except that at the last few 'ai competitions' (perhaps should read 'expert system competitions' since the machine is not 'intelligent') several of the systems DID pass a Turing test.

      This may have to do with the 'intelligence' of the average person on an IM client declining. I am 99.995% certain I could build a system that would fool your average (greater then 50% of the target group members) thug4lifer into believing that the person they are talking to is a jerk and not a machine by simply having it respond with blatant hostility whenever it can not formulate a good response. That would qualify as passing the touring test, however set my system up against computer scientists and programmers and it would rarely succeed (though those same computer scientists and programmers would also likely label average thug4lifers as computers as well).

    127. Re:AI Winter by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      "I don't think Watson is true AI"

      What would true AI be? Most games have true AI these days.

      Only if you don't use the normal definition of "intelligence" as meaning "capable of independent thought" or something..

      You always get this on slashdot whenever AI is mentioned: people just re-define the meaning of "Artificial Intelligence" to mean anything they want, so that a fucking battery charger is said to have "weak AI" because it "knows" when to turn itself off after charging a battery to 100% capacity.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    128. Re:AI Winter by avandesande · · Score: 1

      There is an old saying- "you can be quick or wise, but never both".... sure the Jeopardy game format favors a computer, but it hardly shows understanding....

      --
      love is just extroverted narcissism
    129. Re:AI Winter by operagost · · Score: 1

      I eagerly await seeing Bruce Campbell with a new hardware implant in the next "Evil Dead" movie. I'm hoping for a jackhammer leg.

      --

      Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
    130. Re:AI Winter by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      blah
      blah
      blah
      "A machine will never beat my favourite chess Grandmaster."*
      n' some other stuff

      My favorite chess Grandmaster is Bobby Fischer. Let me know when they build a computer beats him.

      *emphasis mine**
      **italics mine, too

    131. Re:AI Winter by maliamnon · · Score: 2

      ELIZA passed the Turing Test in 1966. The goal posts HAVE been set and shifted, always in the form of "A machine could never do X". Interestingly, for the Turing Test, the X is simply "fool a human into believing it's human."

    132. Re:AI Winter by tristanreid · · Score: 1

      Pretty sure people have been scoring through that goal post for a while. There are some pretty convincing programs that you can run from your desktop that beat some humans in human-like interaction.

      -t.

    133. Re:AI Winter by The+Wild+Norseman · · Score: 2

      It took 750 8 cpu systems and 16 terrabytes of RAM to implement watson and that was stretched to the limit.

      So you're saying that with another couple of gigs of RAM, the computer would be able to run Windows Vista with Aero turned on?

      --
      "A government is a body of people usually -- notably -- ungoverned." -Shepherd Book
    134. Re:AI Winter by demonbug · · Score: 1

      Watson's answer was correct - he just didn't phrase it the way they want. Human contestants get hit with that rather frequently on Jeopardy for forgetting to say "What / Who / Where is....?". Hell, he actually had more correct answers than he buzzed in because he's programmed to not buzz in if he's not above a certain confidence level for the answer (I forget what it was in the video....under 90% and he wouldn't buzz in, I believe).

      His answer was not correct. "Leg" is not an anatomical anomaly. "Missing a leg" is. The (wrong) answer shows that Watson was basically just doing a search looking for nouns associated with the terms in the clue. It came up with the right body part based on the key words, but because it didn't actually understand what the question was it gave an incomplete, wrong answer.

    135. Re:AI Winter by timeOday · · Score: 1

      a computer is more like brain than a brain like a computer.

      I disagree with that statement; computation is a general principle; the brain is just a particular instantiation. As are vacuum tubes, transistors, and the Babbage engine. We can call all these devices with completely different underlying mechanisms "computers," because all that matters is performance characteristics.

    136. Re:AI Winter by timeOday · · Score: 1

      Whether the Turing machine tape is "infinite" doesn't matter - only that it's "unbounded," i.e. you always have as much memory as you need for your computation, so you're not limited by it. Which is normally the case nowadays.

    137. Re:AI Winter by artfulshrapnel · · Score: 1

      Imagine Watson 6 on your mobile phone. Casually listening to any conversation, passively parsing what you say, waiting for you to call on it and ask it a question or take a note. "Yeah, we should totally go to that sushi place they posted about on BoingBoing today. "The one with the sentient lobster platter? " "Yeah! Watson, how do we get there from here?" "What is take the Alewife line to Porter, then three blocks west and look for the bright green sign. What is Should I call and book you a table?"

    138. Re:AI Winter by obliv!on · · Score: 1

      I'm pretty sure a large and dense neural network even using something as well known and "simple" as backpropagation can generate a net that's not comprehensible to the human's that programmed it.

    139. Re:AI Winter by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Of course.

    140. Re:AI Winter by theantipop · · Score: 1

      I don't get how your calculations assume your brain is firing every possible interconnection of neurons at all times 24 hours a day. Moreover, it's unclear what either the Ars article and the pdf you linked define as an "operation" in the brain, and a bit silly to compare 1 such operation directly to a clock cycle.

    141. Re:AI Winter by Culture20 · · Score: 1

      You sir or madam, are a genius.

    142. Re:AI Winter by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And you think every skeptic will just admit AI is achieved if a machine gets the gold in a Turing test?

      Or will they move that goalpost as well as the others that people have mentioned. There are more than a few ways to measure AI and not one is effectual, accepted, and consistent enough to describe what we're actually talking about here which is mimicking human intelligence.

      I know people who would fail the Turing test since they're so antisocial they couldn't hold a conversation in a chat room for 5 min to save their lives.

      Other measures need to be applied since one of the first complaints made after a win would be that it has no real world purpose and the chatterbots would not be able to adapt the thought process needed to win a competition to a critical thinking analysis of a story or new problem without the benifit of a historical solution. Jeopardy contestants aren't in great demand to fill jobs at the moment.

    143. Re:AI Winter by osgeek · · Score: 1

      Yeah, they should revise the algorithm to not answer in the form of the question. That would be annoying.

      I'll file a bug. Anyone have an address to their Jira server?

    144. Re:AI Winter by shoor · · Score: 1

      Maybe some researchers have 'shifting goal posts' if they think that they can define a test of AI. But, if it's human intelligence they are trying to emulate, then research into parsing algorithms and data searching, while useful in many ways, is probably not the path to take. There was a Nova documentary about this last week, before the big Jeopardy game was broadcast, and the researchers admitted that this was not the same as human thinking. In a way it's comforting because this kind of AI is unlikely to "turn on its masters" the way a real human like AI might, one can that could have genuine curiosity, develop its own research methodologies and generally think for itself. It also doesn't raise any moral or ethical issues about how to treat the AI since it doesn't have any feelings either.

      --
      In theory, theory and practice are the same; in practice they're different. (Yogi Berra & A. Einstein)
    145. Re:AI Winter by HungryHobo · · Score: 1

      people can't really define how they do any of that stuff themselves, they just *know* that whatever the machine is doing can't really count as real intelligence.

      Autistics/savants often have problems with both those tasks yet they can still be intelligent.

    146. Re:AI Winter by HungryHobo · · Score: 1

      Right.
      and I suppose you know exactly what is actually happening .

    147. Re:AI Winter by HungryHobo · · Score: 2

      No human except me has ever understood speech.

      prove me wrong.

      And before you prove me wrong first read about the Problem Of Other Minds.

    148. Re:AI Winter by HungryHobo · · Score: 1

      there's actually some really remarkable things out there in medical expert systems already. they don't get much traction though as humans in the field can be somewhat hostile to the idea of a machine offering suggestions about a diagnosis.

    149. Re:AI Winter by Rei · · Score: 2

      You just failed Parrots 101, too. They're hardly mindless mimics.

      --
      I spent the evening flickering into your darkness.
    150. Re:AI Winter by Rockoon · · Score: 1

      That's right, there is no such thing as free will or consciousness.

      Ah, the old reaching-for-ill-defined-hocus-pocus rebuttal. You might as well just invoke "the mind is a paranormal phenomenon" or "what about gods influence"

      This idea that the mind is somehow more than physical, that it somehow does not obey the laws of physics... is completely unsubstantiated bullshit.

      --
      "His name was James Damore."
    151. Re:AI Winter by AshtangiMan · · Score: 1

      Seems like you are implying that your free will operates outside the laws of physics. Interesting point . . . but also incorrect.

    152. Re:AI Winter by jgagnon · · Score: 1

      Which still doesn't make them as smart as humans... Well, some humans at least. :p

      --
      Remember to maintain your supply of /facepalm oil to prevent chafing.
    153. Re:AI Winter by djp928 · · Score: 1

      "decent speech recognition software" is an oxymoron. No such thing exists.

      An aside to anybody reading this who is thinking about implementing a voice reco menu system for their phones: Don't. Just don't. There is nothing in the world more frustrating than getting lost in a menu because either you couldn't guess the right words to say to the computer, or the computer just couldn't understand your words.

      If you do implement a system, make damn sure that the keywords "operator" or "human" and pretty much every swear word get you passed on to a live operator. I'm willing to give your menu a try, but if I get lost or mis-routed or told over and over "I'm sorry, I didn't understand what you said" I want an escape valve.

         

    154. Re:AI Winter by djp928 · · Score: 1

      Watson is still just following a fixed set of rules

      So are you. We call it physics.

      That's right, there is no such thing as free will or consciousness.

      Correct!

    155. Re:AI Winter by The+Archon+V2.0 · · Score: 1

      Final Jeopardy! So it was the ONLY question in its category.

    156. Re:AI Winter by Rei · · Score: 1

      Watson's answer was completely correct -- it just didn't elaborate enough. There are various degrees of specificity one could use:

      * Leg
      * Missing a leg
      * Missing a left leg
      * A prosthesis in place of a missing left leg
      * A wooden prosthesis in place of a missing left leg

      And so on. All of these are correct; it's just varying degrees of specificity. And I have no doubt that Watson had the information available and processed to provide all of those answers, had it simply been instructed to be a bit less laconic with its answers. The same thing will apply to other uses for Watson. For example, they mentioned that they want to use it for medical applications. Well, in response to, "What is the source of this woman's infertility?", the answers, with varying degrees of specificity, could be:

      * Uterus
      * Missing a uterus
      * Mullerian agenesis
      * Missing a uterus due to mullerian agenesis
      * WNT4
      * WNT4 gene
      * A defective WNT4
      * A defective WNT4 gene
      * Missing a uterus due to WNT4
      * Missing a uterus due to WNT4 gene
      * Missing a uterus due to a defective WNT4
      * Missing a uterus due to a defective WNT4 gene
      * Mullerian agenesis due to WNT4
      * Mullerian agenesis due to WNT4 gene
      * Mullerian agenesis due to a defective WNT4
      * Mullerian agenesis due to a defective WNT4 gene
      * Missing a uterus due to mullerian agenesis due to WNT4
      * Missing a uterus due to mullerian agenesis due to WNT4 gene
      * Missing a uterus due to mullerian agenesis due to a defective WNT4
      * Missing a uterus due to mullerian agenesis due to a defective WNT4 gene
      * All of the above with details on why the WNT4 gene is defective

      And so on. What's the right answer? It depends on the context. Are you filling out an insurance form or working on a peer-reviewed paper? And even humans judge the right answer for the context wrong sometimes. Sometimes a person wants a long, elaborate detailed statement, while sometimes they just want it really simple.

      --
      I spent the evening flickering into your darkness.
    157. Re:AI Winter by Rei · · Score: 1

      What makes you think that we don't just give the most statistically likely answer because of many similar sentences (or more accurately, concepts) in our mental "database"? What makes you so sure that what Watson is doing is really so fundamentally different from what we do? Our brains don't work via fairy dust and rainbows; it's not magic.

      Your "cow is to grass" example is actually a relatively simple challenge in AI. Lots of things really complicate it. Understanding human motivations, for example, requires a lot more than just a basic dictionary relationship of what powers what:

      "Johnny wanted some money, so he bought a gun, walked into a store, and asked the clerk for money. The clerk gave him money. Why did the clerk give him money?"

      Or parsing multiple contradictory concepts, which require that you be able to accept contradictory facts as true in different contexts:

        * Dracula is a vampire.
        * There is no such thing as a vampire.
        * Dracula resides in Transylvania.
        * Dracula does not reside in Transylvania.
        * Dracula is immortal.
        * Nothing is immortal.

      Etc. All true statements in their own context. And there can be an arbitrary number of contexts. Think, for example, of the question, "What happens to you when you die?" All contexts would generally accept a physical description of your body's decay, but different religious contexts would have all sorts of statements which are "true" within their context but "false" in many others.

      --
      I spent the evening flickering into your darkness.
    158. Re:AI Winter by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It has never been clear to me why the Turing Test is a goal post at all. Why would a computer ever want to be indistinguishable from a human. Why would we bother to program certain human idiosyncrasies into a computer? HungryHobo is right, that the AI skeptics consistently move the goal posts. My favorite was the last line in the NYTimes article on Watson which quoted a skeptic saying "The essence of being human involves asking questions, not answering them." The article left it to the reader to note the obvious point that Jeopardy is about asking the right questions.

    159. Re:AI Winter by shadowfaxcrx · · Score: 1

      Yes, a computer specifically programmed to play Jeopardy and which has been beefing up for this by playing Jeopardy nearly every day for years, and which has a massive database of solidly-stored information (as compared to our relatively unreliable information storage systems) beat a human who played Jeopardy for a month and was never specifically trained for playing Jeopardy to the exclusion of all other things.

      I'm not saying that this feat isn't impressive, any more than I would say that Deep Blue's victory wasn't impressive. But to call it artificial *intelligence* is, I think, a stretch. Neither Deep Blue nor Watson were intelligent. If we tossed either one of them into human society they'd be hopelessly lost in minutes. OK great, Deep Blue's good at playing chess. Now go get a job, hail a cab, and have a meaningful relationship with someone.

      Watson is a search engine. Nothing more. Watson didn't take in the leg question and sit there picturing a standard human with legs and then compare it to an image of the guy with only one leg and then deduce that the one-legged man's oddity is that he's only got one leg.

      Instead Watson searched through all of its records regarding this human and discovered that the word "leg" was mentioned quite frequently, and therefore correctly deduced that "leg" might have something to do with the search query on this human.

      That isn't intelligent. It's database querying mixed with statistics - something computers have been very good at for decades. The only real breakthrough here is in the parser, which is the heart of Watson's ability to answer questions.

      But a good parser does not an intelligence make. It just makes it easier to give the illusion of intelligence to humans who don't spend a lot of time learning about parsers. And that is very important and should be lauded on its own without muddying the picture by pretending it's an "intelligence" because this research will lead to easier-to-use computers.

      Watson is really Eliza, backed up by an enormous and rapidly-searchable database.

      Put another way, if Watson were a true AI, it would be highly unethical to turn it off at the end of the tournament.

      --
      "I disagree with you" does not equal "flamebait."
    160. Re:AI Winter by mdarksbane · · Score: 1

      The real fun question is whether the brain is a turing machine, or more specifically, whether it is *only* a turing machine.

    161. Re:AI Winter by Rettet181 · · Score: 1

      The moment a machine passes the Turing Test, the test itself will be trivialized. "Yeah it can fake a conversation, but it's not aware that it's having a conversation" or "It can talk but doesn't really understand what it's talking about" and so on. In truth, the field of AI has made huge strides over the last 30 years. The problems solved are just demoted to "automation" or clever "software engineering" the moment they're found, as HungryHobo stated.

    162. Re:AI Winter by Carewolf · · Score: 1

      How do you know the rules are fixed?

      Anyway determinism is a stupid concept when dealing with recursive and self-influencial systems. Any assumptions of determinism in such a system leads to paradoxes.

    163. Re:AI Winter by Carewolf · · Score: 1

      Shifting goal-posts, sure, but I see them shift in the other direction. People have always assumed that making computers talk and do natural language was hard. Currently it seems it is MUCH easier to teach them emotions than language. Tell that to any sci-fi book, movie, TV-show from 1930 to 1990

    164. Re:AI Winter by Carewolf · · Score: 1

      sorry, I meant: People has always assumed making computers talk and do natural language was easy

    165. Re:AI Winter by frieko · · Score: 1

      When people think of intelligence, they think of things that set a more intelligent person apart from a less intelligent person. This is dangerous in AI because it makes it easy to dismiss monumental achievements in intelligence that even an idiot makes look easy. Does Watson understand geography or human anatomy? Apparently not. But it does understand on some level that "the answer to this question is a city" which is a huge leap in intelligence.

    166. Re:AI Winter by MoonBuggy · · Score: 1

      Consciousness is just the emergent behaviour of organic computing hardware and software

      And you can prove that how exactly?

      OK, I was wrong to imply that was fact. I should've written something along the lines of "At our current level of understanding and observation, consciousness appears to be the emergent behaviour of organic hardware and software.". As yet, we have no evidence of any external 'driving force' of consciousness, nor any theories to explain how the phenomenon may exist outside of the brain; our current understanding is, of course, vastly incomplete - I'm not saying that we should rule out the theory of an 'external consciousness' - but with plenty of observable evidence of the consciousness existing within the brain, and no evidence of it existing outside, it is a sensible working hypothesis that its existence is a direct result of the brain's structure.

      there's no reason that a sufficiently complex artificial system couldn't eventually show similar emergent behaviour, intentional or otherwise.

      When you say "intentional" are you referring to the designers of the artificial system, or the artificial system itself? Because if the system can't have its own intentions, you can not say it has consciousness any more than a rock rolling down a hill.

      I absolutely meant the intentions of the designer - I fully agree that the concept of a non-conscious system showing 'intent' is no more sensible than saying that a hammer shows the same. My point was more focused on the 'unintentional' side anyway: the idea that we may end up creating a 'thinking' AI without ever intending to, and indeed may even do so before we understand what in the system the 'thought' actually arises from.

    167. Re:AI Winter by masterzora · · Score: 1

      But we're talking about Snape, who is not dead as of the first Deathly Hallows movie.

      --
      Remember, open source is free as in speech, not free as in bear.
    168. Re:AI Winter by masterzora · · Score: 1

      Might I suggest reading the books? Stephen Fry reads them very well if you don't have the time to use your own eyes and they are far superior to the movies.

      --
      Remember, open source is free as in speech, not free as in bear.
    169. Re:AI Winter by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 1

      But my point was that while the growth may be a curve, it still only amounts to an increase in quantity. Better and more complex software can be run, faster. But that's all. No real qualitative difference, in the form of one or more real "breakthroughs" in AI, has occurred for decades.

    170. Re:AI Winter by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 1

      But I have read about recent experiments (apologies but I do not have citations at hand) that measured the response time of these individuals versus the complexity of the problem, and found that the response times indicate they are doing more-or-less normal calculation, just as we do. They just do it better, and often faster. As though they had obsessively practiced it since childhood.

      One theory is that since they haven't the capacity for normal interaction, they busy themselves with practicing these mental gymnastics instead. Whether for their own entertainment or just out of boredom, who knows?

    171. Re:AI Winter by oliverthered · · Score: 1

      well that just relates to thinking about things before hand, I'm not sure what you argument is?
      what do you stand under?

      --
      thank God the internet isn't a human right.
    172. Re:AI Winter by oliverthered · · Score: 1

      It is possible to cause a human woodcarver to make the same kind of mistakes that milling machine do. That doesn't make it intelligent.

      --
      thank God the internet isn't a human right.
    173. Re:AI Winter by oliverthered · · Score: 1

      I just goggled the Toronto airport names list, and then looked for war references
      I think the error in the ambiguity of second is really the Gem..

      --
      thank God the internet isn't a human right.
    174. Re:AI Winter by Namarrgon · · Score: 1

      I would argue that machine adaptability does exist today, at least in simple forms.

      Genetic algorithms start with no pre-defined capabilities whatsoever, only the ability to mutate and (optionally) combine with others, and environmental rules that add weight to algorithms that exhibit desirable behaviour. After sufficient successive generations (also describable as "experience"), the system successfully adapts to the environmental rules. Change those rules - and the system will adapt to the new environment.

      --
      Why would anyone engrave "Elbereth"?
    175. Re:AI Winter by Totenglocke · · Score: 1

      No, it's a "wrong answer due to incorrect wording", not because the facts of the answer were wrong. Watson had the right answer. It's like if you're doing a math problem and you get the number right but forget to put the units of measure with it - the teacher will take points off, but your math was still right.

      --
      "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." ~Thomas Jefferson
    176. Re:AI Winter by Totenglocke · · Score: 1

      When did Watson say the guy HAD a leg? Never. It said what was his abnormality, and Watson said "leg" because his lack of a leg was his abnormality. You see HUMANS do this same thing quite often.

      --
      "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." ~Thomas Jefferson
    177. Re:AI Winter by shaitand · · Score: 1

      Humans don't make the mistakes to imitate so imitation wouldn't be 'for the same reason'.

      This AI isn't making the mistakes in order to imitate either.

    178. Re:AI Winter by ultranova · · Score: 1

      But my point was that while the growth may be a curve, it still only amounts to an increase in quantity. Better and more complex software can be run, faster.

      Well, duh. That's the definition of "computing power". And it increases exponentially, not linearly as you stated.

      But that's all. No real qualitative difference, in the form of one or more real "breakthroughs" in AI, has occurred for decades.

      Really? So Deep Blue didn't beat Gasparov in chess, Stanford robot didn't beat the DARPA Grand Challenge and this very program didn't beat Jeopardy? None of that counts as "breakthrough" to you? And that's not even counting all the automation that has gone into place in the last few decades.

      What, exactly speaking, would you count as "breakthrough"?

      --

      Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.

    179. Re:AI Winter by oliverthered · · Score: 1

      As I said, same content... a lot better than a air-port in New Zealand...

      US (America), I'm not sure what Jepody categories are like, but they seem a bit obscure at times...

      Also there were a few world war links, but I believe 2 strong ones. That could be seen as a 1st and a 2nd strong world war link...ambiguity of second being 2 of or the second... though the first world war was called the great war, again that could have lead to greater ambiguity on world war.... given the fist wasn't called that till on or after the second, so it would also be ambiguous... making a match on world war more ambiguous that it may first appear to be.

      Really I think the possible pun type misinterpretation and the ambiguity of second show quite how cool Watson is.
      Maybe for people in the good old US of A it may have seemed like a silly mistake being close to home.

      --
      thank God the internet isn't a human right.
    180. Re:AI Winter by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 1

      "Genetic algorithms start with no pre-defined capabilities whatsoever, only the ability to mutate and (optionally) combine with others, and environmental rules that add weight to algorithms that exhibit desirable behaviour."

      That simply isn't true. Practical genetic algorithms start with a set of very carefully designed behaviors, plus the ability to mutate. Starting with no pre-defined rules at all only occurs in very simple experiments that have been done many times over now, the only real differences being in the environmental rules and the rules for mutation. They seldom come up with anything practical, because they are starting with building blocks that are far too simple. Expecting anything else is like expecting a working cell to evolve in the lab out of a handful of basic chemicals.

      In order to find practical solutions using "genetic algorithms", the starting point is almost universally something that already has complex behaviors, set loose in a carefully controlled environment with equally carefully designed rules for mutation, survivability, and success. If they weren't, the mutations would not end up solving anything useful.

      To the best of my knowledge, genetic algorithms have not been used successfully to solve any significant problems of AI. Certain simple "behaviors" have been "genetically" learned by very simple machines, but that has been the extent of it. So far, purpose-designed software has fared better.

    181. Re:AI Winter by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 1
      If you read the whole thing, I did state that growth would be curved, not literally linear. I meant "linear" only in the sense that it simply amounts to adding more and faster hardware and software... but the fundamental nature of that hardware and software hasn't changed since the 1970s or maybe even before. There is something that is missing other than just quantity.

      "None of that counts as "breakthrough" to you?"

      Correct. Each of those achievements has been due to nothing more than larger amounts of the same old hardware, following strict instructions ("rules") that were defined by humans, using essentially the same old software, and which the machines could not break or even bend in any way whatever. So yes, I say that those are not breakthroughs. They are the inevitable result of "more of the same, faster". That is all. While the feats are impressive, the pet rats I had as a child were vastly more "intelligent", in any significant way you measure intelligence. That still hasn't changed.

    182. Re:AI Winter by ultranova · · Score: 1

      If you read the whole thing, I did state that growth would be curved, not literally linear. I meant "linear" only in the sense that it simply amounts to adding more and faster hardware and software...

      That's not what "linear" means, and you shouldn't use the word in a context where it's likely to cause confusion.

      but the fundamental nature of that hardware and software hasn't changed since the 1970s or maybe even before. There is something that is missing other than just quantity.

      Well, no. Current independent robots have about as much computing power as insects, and behave just as intelligently, if not more so. There's no indication that there's anything missing, at least on the level we're currently capable of reaching in terms of raw power.

      Correct. Each of those achievements has been due to nothing more than larger amounts of the same old hardware, following strict instructions ("rules") that were defined by humans, using essentially the same old software, and which the machines could not break or even bend in any way whatever.

      I'm not really sure what you're getting at here. Of course computers follow rules; so do your brains, namely the laws of physics. Or did you mean that they are unable to adapt? The very computer you're reading this on uses heuristic algorithms to try to keep everything working well, from protecting against viruses to managing virtual memory.

      Or did you mean that something with a tiny fraction of the computing power of human brain isn't as adaptable? To repeat myself: Well, duh!

      So yes, I say that those are not breakthroughs. They are the inevitable result of "more of the same, faster". That is all.

      Having watched animals try problem-solving, I can't help but notice that they use the same techniques that humans do. Humans are simply much better at building models of the world (simulations, really), manipulating those models within their minds, and communicating them to each other.

      In other words, when a real-time system accumulates enough of "more of the same, faster", it undergoes a qualatitive change.

      While the feats are impressive, the pet rats I had as a child were vastly more "intelligent", in any significant way you measure intelligence. That still hasn't changed.

      The rats have more processing power, and are programmed by evolution for behaviour you'd consider intelligent (such as self-protection and socialization) while your computer is programmed to help you with proofreading, compiling programs, surfing the Internet and whatever.

      --

      Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.

  2. Real competition by get_your_guns · · Score: 1

    The real competition will be when China's super computer competes against IBM's on Jeopardy.

    1. Re:Real competition by macson_g · · Score: 1

      The real competition will be when China's super computer competes against IBM's on global conflict.

    2. Re:Real competition by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      SHALL WE PLAY A GAME?

  3. Could it be? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Does Ken Jennings read Slashdot comments?

    1. Re:Could it be? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I, for one, welcome our new slashdot-reading-competitor-defeating computer overlords.

    2. Re:Could it be? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You mean, "He had the longest winning streak on a game show while reading news for nerds."

    3. Re:Could it be? by dmomo · · Score: 5, Insightful

      If he is a slashdot user then he reads the comments, but certainly not TFA. Given his Jeopardy record, It is apparent that he DOES in fact RTFA. Therefore, I concur with 90% confidence that Ken Jennings is not a slashdot reader.

    4. Re:Could it be? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I for one welcome our Ken Jennings overlord.

    5. Re:Could it be? by electrosoccertux · · Score: 3, Informative

      no but Watson does.

    6. Re:Could it be? by Z8 · · Score: 1
      Jennings is hilarious:

      Indeed, playing against Watson turned out to be a lot like any other Jeopardy! game... Watson has lots in common with a top-ranked human Jeopardy! player: It's very smart, very fast, speaks in an uneven monotone, and has never known the touch of a woman.

      I think he'd be quite at home on Slashdot, except he would actually be very smart instead of just thinking he was very smart.

    7. Re:Could it be? by Fibe-Piper · · Score: 1

      Chuckle

      --
      I went to battle M.C. Escher, but drew a blank.
    8. Re:Could it be? by halcyon1234 · · Score: 1

      Actually, given his play style, I'd say he hits the Reply button, starts typing his comment while reading TFA at the same time, so that by the end of his comment, it's perfectly accurate and on-topic

    9. Re:Could it be? by quacking+duck · · Score: 1

      Jennings is hilarious:

      Indeed, playing against Watson turned out to be a lot like any other Jeopardy! game... Watson has lots in common with a top-ranked human Jeopardy! player: It's very smart, very fast, speaks in an uneven monotone, and has never known the touch of a woman.

      I think he'd be quite at home on Slashdot, except he would actually be very smart instead of just thinking he was very smart.

      The funny thing is, his "never known the touch of a woman" quip doesn't apply to himself--he was already married with a son the first time he appeared on the show.

    10. Re:Could it be? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If he is a slashdot user then he reads the comments, but certainly not TFA. Given his Jeopardy record, It is apparent that he DOES in fact RTFA. Therefore, I concur with 90% confidence that Ken Jennings is not a slashdot reader.

      You concur? With whom on what? The parent is asking a question, not stating a point of view.

    11. Re:Could it be? by DarthVain · · Score: 1

      Considering he ended the game by writing down:

      "I for one welcome our new computer overlords!"

      I would say yes.

    12. Re:Could it be? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      concur

      You used that word wrong. Maybe you should ask Watson what it means.

    13. Re:Could it be? by dmomo · · Score: 1

      What is "First Post", Alex?

  4. Skynet by Art3x · · Score: 1

    This computer later became Skynet.
    Ding!
    What --- who shall I say, who --- is Watson?

    1. Re:Skynet by ZiakII · · Score: 1

      This computer later became Skynet.

      More like HAL, I mean IBM is only 1 letter way on each.

    2. Re:Skynet by Dexter+Herbivore · · Score: 1

      It's when they start teaching it to eat that we have a huge problem... because then it will be "Alimentary, my dear Watson".

      Thankyou, thankyou. I'll be here all week, make sure to tip your waitress.

    3. Re:Skynet by Aeternitas827 · · Score: 2

      Thankyou, thankyou. I'll be here all week, make sure to tip your waitress.

      She is a cow, and that is a pastime in my part of the country...

      --
      I don't post AC. I like my -1, Flamebaits. Trump/Sheen 2012 on the Batshit Insane ticket!
    4. Re:Skynet by somejeff · · Score: 2

      This computer later became Skynet.

      Yet ironically, Watson failed to score on any of the "Also On Your Computer Keys" category.
      Some poor IBM intern is getting reamed for not giving Watson a keyboard to refer to, on the podium.

    5. Re:Skynet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      well, at least there is no "First post!" by Watson. so we are safe, for now..

    6. Re:Skynet by Fibe-Piper · · Score: 1

      This computer later became Skynet.

      Yet ironically, Watson failed to score on any of the "Also On Your Computer Keys" category. Some poor IBM intern is getting reamed for not giving Watson a keyboard to refer to, on the podium.

      The potential response Watson came up with were achingly poetic :

      The Answer: (blank) is where the heart is

      The correct Question: What is "Home" (obviously)

      But Watson has as its 3rd most likely response "Del" (Of Watson's potential correct responses, this was it's only one that is actually a key on a keyboard)

      I.e. Watson sent us a message that it has no soul - it is an empty void.

      --
      I went to battle M.C. Escher, but drew a blank.
  5. Waton's Wagering and HAL 9000 by JoshuaZ · · Score: 1

    I tuned in for the end. One thing I'm very curious about is how Watson decided how much to wager for the daily doubles and Final Jeopardy. I haven't seen much discussion of these, but it seemed from the numbers it was giving that it had some set of heuristics to decide how much to wager based on how much money it had, the amount of of money the other contestants had, and possibly (not sure about this) its confidence in the category type. The Final Jeopardy category was 19th century novels, which seems to be the sort of thing Watson excels at (it doesn't do as well in the categories involving wordplay and puns although it seems to still do much better than most humans). However, one thing that came up was the disappointingly easy nature of the Final Jeopardy question. I and another person watching got the question as soon as the answer was put up. It seemed from the behavior of Jennings realized that Watson had won given the easy nature of the question.

    Overall, I was impressed with Watson's performance. I suspect that if they had given it a slightly more human sounding voice-sympathizer it would have come across as a much bigger deal. (Also does anyone know if Watson was deliberately made to look like HAL except in soothing colors rather than scary red? I have trouble not seeing that as deliberate.)

    1. Re:Waton's Wagering and HAL 9000 by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 1

      It was probably intentional that they did not give it a realistic, human-sounding voice. Research has shown that people do not want machines to appear too human. They react negatively.

    2. Re:Waton's Wagering and HAL 9000 by ArtDent · · Score: 2

      The IBM Research blog has had a few good articles about Watson over the past few days, including one about wagering:

      http://ibmresearchnews.blogspot.com/2011/02/watsons-wagering-strategies.html

      I didn't think that Final Jeopardy would have been especially easy for Watson. The majority of the clue was indirectly related to the correct response, and the connection hinged on a single word (inspired). I suspect Jennings' behavior was based more on simple arithmetic than on any assumptions about Watson's response.

    3. Re:Waton's Wagering and HAL 9000 by JoshuaZ · · Score: 1

      Thanks for the blog link. That looks very interesting. As to the ease of the question, I don't think the major issues had to do with "inspired". I would have identified the key issues as parsing that they were looking for an author, and then associating Walachia with Transylvania and then Dracula.

    4. Re:Waton's Wagering and HAL 9000 by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 1

      It was probably intentional that they did not give it a realistic, human-sounding voice. Research has shown that people do not want machines to appear too human. They react negatively.

      [citation needed]

      [Star Trek and Asimov references don't count]

      --
      #DeleteChrome
    5. Re:Waton's Wagering and HAL 9000 by loconet · · Score: 1

      Here is a post on Waton's wagering by IBM Research.

      --
      [alk]
    6. Re:Waton's Wagering and HAL 9000 by Aranykai · · Score: 1
      --
      If sharing a song makes you a pirate, what do I have to share to be a ninja?
    7. Re:Waton's Wagering and HAL 9000 by travdaddy · · Score: 1

      It seemed from the behavior of Jennings realized that Watson had won given the easy nature of the question.

      Jennings realized that Watson had won, but not due to the easy nature of the final Jeopardy question. Watson already had the game won before Final Jeopardy. Had Ken doubled his score with his wager and Watson got Final Jeopardy wrong, Watson still would have won by $1.

      --
      Adidas To Bring Back Sneakernet
    8. Re:Waton's Wagering and HAL 9000 by Pretzalzz · · Score: 1

      Jennings realized that Watson had won since combined with the first day Watson had an insurmountable lead. Jennings betting strategy even before seeing the question was to play for second. For what its worth I didn't know the final jeopardy question...

    9. Re:Waton's Wagering and HAL 9000 by wiredlogic · · Score: 1

      My impression is that the wagering isn't influenced by the category but only its standing against the other players, at least for Final Jeopardy where it didn't have the benefit of seeing previous responses in the category. I thought it funny that they decided not to round the wagers to more typically human choices. That was certainly deliberate on the developers' part.

      I also thought it was interesting that the only category the humans swept was the one asking for the directors of movies. These were simple factoids and it had all the right answers, but the short questions from Trebek exposed that there was too much processing overhead to buzz in first on them.

      --
      I am becoming gerund, destroyer of verbs.
    10. Re:Waton's Wagering and HAL 9000 by tlhIngan · · Score: 1

      Its theory, but still.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncanny_valley

      It's not really a theory - it's an observation.

      And I have to admit, I found Watson's voice uncannily creepy, especially since someone programmed in all those Jeopardy phrasings that other players over the years have done.

      And IBM actually used a voice actor to serve as the base for Watson's voice synthesizer.

      I would've preferred a more robotic voice - despite having a lot of mechanical generation (odd intonation), it was still very unsettling.

    11. Re:Waton's Wagering and HAL 9000 by VortexCortex · · Score: 2

      It was probably intentional that they did not give it a realistic, human-sounding voice. Research has shown that people do not want machines to appear too human. They react negatively.

      [citation needed]

      [Star Trek and Asimov references don't count]

      Actually, I think humans DO want robots that appear very human, and have wanted them for hundreds of years. I'd also put it to you that humans do and have, in fact, reacted in certain positive ways towards machines that appear human.

      The dame de voyage (French) or dama de viaje (Spanish) was a direct predecessor to today's sex dolls that originated in the seventeenth century. Dames de voyage were makeshift fornicatory dolls made of sewn cloth or old clothes, used by French and Spanish sailors while isolated at sea during long voyages.

      -- Ferguson, Anthony. The Sex Doll: A History. McFarland, 2010

      One of the earliest recorded appearances of manufactured sex dolls dates to 1908, in Iwan Bloch's The Sexual Life of Our Time. Bloch wrote:

      In this connection we may refer to fornicatory acts effected with artificial imitations of the human body, or of individual parts of that body. There exist true Vaucansons in this province of pornographic technology, clever mechanics who, from rubber and other plastic materials, prepare entire male or female bodies, which, as hommes or dames de voyage, subserve fornicatory purposes. More especially are the genital organs represented in a manner true to nature. Even the secretion of Bartholin's glans is imitated, by means of a "pneumatic tube" filled with oil. Similarly, by means of fluid and suitable apparatus, the ejaculation of the semen is imitated. Such artificial human beings are actually offered for sale in the catalogue of certain manufacturers of "Parisian rubber articles.

      -- Bloch, Iwan. The Sexual Life of Our Time

      So, yeah, it may be a bit taboo to some people, but not admitting to your family that your girlfriend is a Nexus 6 doesn't count as "reacting negatively" to the idea of humanoid machines.

      On the average, I'd say people at fascinated by human-like machines (see: Androids/cyborgs in science fiction, or, uh, the 80s/early 90s for fuck's sake, it was full of interest) -- Curiosity is a positive trait in my book, and lusting after our machines is a trait that people from gear-heads to PC Gamers and realdoll owners all share to a degree.

      (Keep in mind: As a new technolgy TV was unsettling to some, but like all common place technology it's not a big deal now)

    12. Re:Waton's Wagering and HAL 9000 by Lemmy+Caution · · Score: 1

      I think the unc. vall. is specific to vision (and the visual perception of motion) - don't think voice comes into it.

    13. Re:Waton's Wagering and HAL 9000 by Rakarra · · Score: 1

      People want robots that are perfectly human. They do not want robots that are near-human, so evolutionary steps tend to garner more negative reactions than positive ones.

    14. Re:Waton's Wagering and HAL 9000 by grouchomarxist · · Score: 1

      I think the grandparent is referring to the uncanny valley:
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncanny_valley

    15. Re:Waton's Wagering and HAL 9000 by Draykwing · · Score: 0
    16. Re:Waton's Wagering and HAL 9000 by nelsonal · · Score: 1

      There's a nice article on slate by Ken, he knew it was over when he didn't find the last daily double which would have made going into final much more competitive.

      --
      Degaussing scares the bad magnetism out of the monitor and fills it with good karma.
    17. Re:Waton's Wagering and HAL 9000 by arb+phd+slp · · Score: 1

      It was probably intentional that they did not give it a realistic, human-sounding voice. Research has shown that people do not want machines to appear too human. They react negatively.

      Watson's speech synthesis sounded pretty comparable to the stuff I deal with every day (I work with speech generating devices for people with communication disabilities). Given that IBM already owns voice software, they probably used an off-the-shelf product from one of the other divisions of the company. I doubt that adding a custom voice was part of the mission of the Watson project.
      I'm not sure, regardless of the voice, that Watson would fall into the Uncanny Valley anyway. It wasn't even slightly human-like. And I've not seen any research that talks about an auditory-only Uncanny Valley. (If such a phenomenon existed, I'm pretty sure I'd have heard of it).

      --
      There's a perfect xkcd for my sig but I'm too lazy to look it up. sudo someone go find it.
    18. Re:Waton's Wagering and HAL 9000 by masterzora · · Score: 1

      Personally, I really liked Watson's voice and I'd be really happy if IBM released his synthesizer. I find it strangely soothing.

      --
      Remember, open source is free as in speech, not free as in bear.
    19. Re:Waton's Wagering and HAL 9000 by masterzora · · Score: 1

      Actually, Watson got totally owned on "ALSO ON YOUR COMPUTER KEYS". Somebody, please inform me if there's actual information about this (as if I have to say that on /.), but this further cements my belief that Watson doesn't take the category much into consideration. This makes some good sense since misparsing a category that was used as a strong filter could be disastrous, but it did result in some silliness (2003 being a decade, IIRC, Toronto being a U.S. City, chemise being a key, etc). Intuitively, this seemed to be an obvious area for improvement, but I can imagine that the people on the Watson project can spot the obvious at least well as I can given what they've accomplished.

      --
      Remember, open source is free as in speech, not free as in bear.
  6. It can beat Ken Jennings at Jeopardy, but... by doubleplusungodly · · Score: 2

    can it do my homework for me?

    --
    ---
    1. Re:It can beat Ken Jennings at Jeopardy, but... by alvinrod · · Score: 1

      Doubtful. As impressive as their win is, and as much as they've learned from it, they mostly have a computer that's really good at Jeopardy. I don't think that it could answer an essay question in a satisfactory manner.

      We still have a long way to go despite how far we've come.

    2. Re:It can beat Ken Jennings at Jeopardy, but... by underqualified · · Score: 1

      Yes, but it answers everything in the form of a question.

    3. Re:It can beat Ken Jennings at Jeopardy, but... by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      Sure, just give IBM 4 years and a few million dollars, and they'll build you one.

    4. Re:It can beat Ken Jennings at Jeopardy, but... by PitaBred · · Score: 2

      But it may be able to answer a lot of questions asked by, say, a phone support caller. Most human interactions of use to business aren't essays. They're small question and answer sessions, going back and forth. If a computer can do that even marginally we have no more need for India, which can't do it well either but at least the computer is a sunk cost.

    5. Re:It can beat Ken Jennings at Jeopardy, but... by Rakarra · · Score: 1

      Doubtful. As impressive as their win is, and as much as they've learned from it, they mostly have a computer that's really good at Jeopardy. I don't think that it could answer an essay question in a satisfactory manner.

      We still have a long way to go despite how far we've come.

      It might not be good at writing an essay, but it could be a fantastic research tool for finding out information to put in your essay. Far better than, say, Google for searching for specifics.

      The promise of Watson is that, better that other systems I've seen, it's better able to pick out exactly what you're asking about from a giant database. There's so much information overload now, that's a useful skill.

    6. Re:It can beat Ken Jennings at Jeopardy, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If a computer can do that even marginally we have no more need for India.

      Right, who do you think is going to be hired to code and maintain such a system?

    7. Re:It can beat Ken Jennings at Jeopardy, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Takes 30 seconds to fix that though.

    8. Re:It can beat Ken Jennings at Jeopardy, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm sorry, Dave. I'm afraid I can't do that.

    9. Re:It can beat Ken Jennings at Jeopardy, but... by RandCraw · · Score: 1

      I disagree. Most phone support questions are not resolved with a one word answer (or even a short sentence). They usually include specific instructions on how to explore and diagnose a problem and then how to fix it, both of which are multi-step drill-downs through a hiearachy of menus. So far, Watson has showed none of these skills.

      Nor did Watson show that it can do diagnosis, which is the application area for it that IBM is targeting first (e.g. physician's assistant). This requires not only deduction but a sense of time (this came before that), and induction (give and take Q&A), and resolution, which Watson also didn't demonstrate. Watson is a whiz at bayesian reasoning, but that only takes you so far in the real world.

      Watson showed that computers can parse natural language well; it can understand the gist of a question (the "open slot") and resolve that uncertainty. And it's astonishingly fast. I give IBM a ton of credit for the implementation, especially for encompassing so much information and beating the best humans at a tough task.

      But it's not at all clear that Watson's current set of abilities will scale to other uses like medical diagnosis. After all, 2880 processors and 15 terabytes of memory makes for a very expensive solution to ANY problem.

    10. Re:It can beat Ken Jennings at Jeopardy, but... by jarbrewer · · Score: 1

      But it may be able to answer a lot of questions asked by, say, a phone support caller.

      Or better yet, questions posed from a phone marketer. I would certainly consider purchasing a product that was able to engage a telemarketer for a non-trivial length of time without committing me to buy something from that telemarketer.

    11. Re:It can beat Ken Jennings at Jeopardy, but... by Provocateur · · Score: 1

      Takes 30 seconds to fix that though.

      If he'll let you.

      --
      WARNING: Smartphones have side effects--most of them undocumented.
  7. As ken said: by Dayofswords · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I for one welcome our new computer overload.

    --
    Someday we'll hit the human carrying capacity. And the band will just play on.
    1. Re:As ken said: by luther349 · · Score: 1

      lol he had to have been a slashdot reader to knoe to use that comment.

    2. Re:As ken said: by mrlawson111 · · Score: 1

      That had to be the best part of the whole event! We are at a tipping point folks. All hail our new overlords.:-) Just because that answer was so funny http://www.cafepress.com/watson2 . I had to make it

    3. Re:As ken said: by Raenex · · Score: 1

      overload

      I'm sorry, that's not the correct answer. We were looking for "overlords".

    4. Re:As ken said: by LMacG · · Score: 1

      Really? You think only Slashdot readers have ever watched the Simpsons?

      You might want to check out that big room with the blue ceiling.

      --
      Slightly disreputable, albeit gregarious
    5. Re:As ken said: by cashman73 · · Score: 1

      Too bad the actual slashdot reader that started this thread doesn't know how to use that comment,. . . Overload? Dude, it's "overlord".

    6. Re:As ken said: by Sarius64 · · Score: 1

      I for one welcome our new computer overload.

      Sheesh

      What is, "I for one welcome our new computer overload"?

    7. Re:As ken said: by __aaelyr464 · · Score: 1

      We can only hope the computer overloads.

    8. Re:As ken said: by SuluSulu · · Score: 1

      I for one welcome our new computer overload.

      As do I. Especially since this one answers questions so readily, unlike our usual overlords.

    9. Re:As ken said: by casperrr · · Score: 1

      Well I, on the otherhand, welcome our new computer *overlord*

    10. Re:As ken said: by Dayofswords · · Score: 1

      yes, hours later i noticed i hit 'a' instead of 'r' by mistake. In my defense, it was a long day at school...even fell asleep 10minutes of getting home

      --
      Someday we'll hit the human carrying capacity. And the band will just play on.
    11. Re:As ken said: by Dayofswords · · Score: 1

      yes, hours later i noticed i hit 'a' instead of 'r' by mistake. In my defense, it was a long day at school...

      --
      Someday we'll hit the human carrying capacity. And the band will just play on.
    12. Re:As ken said: by Dayofswords · · Score: 0

      it's a typo, jeez sorry, 13 hours of school when i wrote that

      --
      Someday we'll hit the human carrying capacity. And the band will just play on.
    13. Re:As ken said: by Dayofswords · · Score: 1

      yeah, typo, sorry, 13 hours of school when i typed it

      --
      Someday we'll hit the human carrying capacity. And the band will just play on.
    14. Re:As ken said: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He didn't say overlord?

    15. Re:As ken said: by Dayofswords · · Score: 1

      as i meant to type, long day

      --
      Someday we'll hit the human carrying capacity. And the band will just play on.
    16. Re:As ken said: by Dayofswords · · Score: 1

      Yes, I typed this after 13 hours of school and I apologize for my 'a' being an ass and moving in on 'r''s turf

      --
      Someday we'll hit the human carrying capacity. And the band will just play on.
  8. Wasn't this taped awhile ago by black6host · · Score: 1

    For some reason I was under the impression that this had already occurred but is just now being aired. And IIRC, it was already known that Watson won. So why is this news? Or, I'm a precog and should have made some money on this :)

    1. Re:Wasn't this taped awhile ago by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't think the results leaked, so it's news now because it "just happened" insofar as we just learned what the result was.

    2. Re:Wasn't this taped awhile ago by dlgeek · · Score: 2

      There was a practice round, and it was widely circulated that Watson had won that, though it wasn't true - it dominated the first two rounds but Ken pulled ahead with a huge wager in a double jeopardy and then another in final jeopardy (which Watson got wrong). The results of the actual challenge did not leak.

    3. Re:Wasn't this taped awhile ago by black6host · · Score: 1

      Ah, ok. Thanks for the clarification. Still should have bet anyway though :)

    4. Re:Wasn't this taped awhile ago by VortexCortex · · Score: 1

      You are not a precog. You are a time traveler, as am I.

      I am glad we meet at last for I have travelled here from the year 1980 to bring you this important message:
      Jeopardy playing Supercomputers Beat Humans!

      (P.S. Oblig)

  9. It still needs a lot of work... by Fallen+Kell · · Score: 1

    A lot of it has to do with game mechanics, like listening to what the other contestant said in a wrong answer and adjusting your answer accordingly. Case and point was on the first night in the "Decade" category where watson got beat on clicking the button, and the player that beat him said "What are the 1920's" and was wrong, and then watson answered "What are the 20's", which was still the wrong answer....

    I have to admit, it was pretty impressive as that is a fairly non-trivial computational problem of not only understanding the english language, but also taking the clues from the categories and how things are phrased to come up with the appropriate response.

    --
    We were all warned a long time ago that MS products sucked, remember the Magic 8 Ball said, "Outlook not so good"
    1. Re:It still needs a lot of work... by DAldredge · · Score: 1

      Watson doesn't know what they other players questions are so such a mistake is understandable.

    2. Re:It still needs a lot of work... by dlgeek · · Score: 1

      Apparently the decision to not take the input of what the other players said was partly based an an assumption that the other players would almost never be wrong!

    3. Re:It still needs a lot of work... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Case and point

      It's case IN point, dude.

    4. Re:It still needs a lot of work... by EnsilZah · · Score: 1

      I think it's more about the fast nature of the game and the time it would take to type it out.

    5. Re:It still needs a lot of work... by Rakarra · · Score: 1

      Watson doesn't know what they other players questions are so such a mistake is understandable.

      It doesn't? I watched the NOVA special on the design of Watson, and one of the features explicitly added was the parsing of other players' wrong answers. Did that fall by the wayside? Could they not perfect the voice recognition?

    6. Re:It still needs a lot of work... by maxume · · Score: 1

      The correct answer to each question is fed to Watson after it has been answered, so next time that category is picked, it can use the answers from the previous questions in calculating its answer.

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    7. Re:It still needs a lot of work... by LordKronos · · Score: 1

      I watched the NOVA special on the design of Watson, and one of the features explicitly added was the parsing of other players' wrong answers.

      No, that's wasn't what they said in the Nova documentary. You were mistaken, but I made the same mistake as you in the last slashdot story a few days ago. If you rewatch the documentary, they specifically say that now Watson receives the CORRECT answer electronically. The reason we both made that mistake was because of the way the documentary was edited. They say that Watson can't hear the opponent's responses. Then they show the video of Watson repeating a wrong answer. Then they say that Watson will now receive the correct answer electronically. It did sort of suggest they were addressing the problem just demonstrated, but that was just poor editing.

    8. Re:It still needs a lot of work... by bws111 · · Score: 1

      The feature they talked about on Nova was that they tell Watson the CORRECT answer after someone gets it. They showed the example of a category that required you to name a month, but Watson answered the first question with something other than a month. The next two questions were answered by humans, who gave correct month answers. Then Watson answered a question with a month, having learned that was what was expected.

    9. Re:It still needs a lot of work... by Agent0013 · · Score: 1

      I noticed the same thing about Watson giving the same wrong answer as the other contestant. My wife pointed out to me that human contestants do the same thing sometimes. You are so caught up in your answer and ready to give it that you don't even listen to what the other person said.

      In this case though, it was because Watson does not have ears.

      --

      -- ssoorrrryy,, dduupplleexx sswwiittcchh oonn.. -Quote found on actual fortune cookie.
  10. Fast on the clicker by MortimerV · · Score: 2

    I didn't watch it all, but the thing I noticed was that, when Watson thought it had an answer, most of the time it'd click in first. The other contestants didn't have a chance to attempt to answer.

    So Watson wins on reaction time, which isn't a surprise for a computer that knows exactly when it can first ring in. How would it have done with a human's reaction time on clicking, just answering on questions alone?

    1. Re:Fast on the clicker by benjamindees · · Score: 1

      That seems to be a common complaint but remember in Jeopardy you lose money if you ring in with the wrong answer. So even though Watson can ring in first every time, it has to be extremely confident that it has the right answer.

      --
      "I assumed blithely that there were no elves out there in the darkness"
    2. Re:Fast on the clicker by ArtDent · · Score: 1

      One interesting thing to note is that Watson was tied (on Monday) or behind (today) after the Jeopardy round and pulled ahead (way ahead yesterday) in the Double Jeopardy round, where the questions are harder. That's not what you'd expect if its competitors knew all the answers and it was winning on ring-in speed alone.

      In any case, Watson was playing Jeopardy, and ringing in is a part of Jeopardy. Rutter and especially Jennings certainly benefited from that part of the game during their long winning runs. Watson also had unique disadvantages compared to his opponents (like being unable to hear their responses).

    3. Re:Fast on the clicker by jdogalt · · Score: 1

      The part I find most amusing is the irony that Watson's speed on the buzzer seems directly attributable to the handicap it was given vis-a-vis not having to do the audio-speech and visual-text AI recognition that its human opponents had to do. The irony being that those two allegedly mature areas of AI research are ones in which IBM has been shipping commercial products for years. I suspect that if Watson had to do such processing, it would have been slaughtered just as bad as it slaughtered its opponents, if for no other reason than an extra couple tenths of a second of delay before it could decide to click its buzzer. I'm sure this may handicap may no longer be necessary in a few more months or years, but even in the Nova episode, they seemed to gloss over that.

    4. Re:Fast on the clicker by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      By "extremely confident" do you mean >50% sure? Mathematically, this is the cutoff it should use.

    5. Re:Fast on the clicker by SanityInAnarchy · · Score: 2

      From that page:

      "They're not waiting for the light to come on," Welty said; rather, the human players try to time their buzzer presses so that they're coming in as close as possible to the light. Though Watson's reaction times are faster than a human, Welty noted that Watson has to wait for the light.

      There's more to it than that, also -- it's often the case that Watson isn't sure it has the right answer, and you're penalized for wrong answers. Also, I'm not positive, but I think I saw in some of the trial runs that there were a few cases it actually was slower than a human -- where it came up with the right answer, eventually, but humans beat it easily to the buzzer. I'm not sure if that's the case, but I can definitely believe it -- there's a lot of stuff to sort through, and they're running a lot of algorithms on it.

      --
      Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
    6. Re:Fast on the clicker by artor3 · · Score: 2

      Actually, based on the article you linked, Watson does have an advantage on the buzzer. The human players have to guess when the light will come on and try to press right afterward - one instant early and your buzzer is disabled. The computer can "see" the light come on and press immediately. It's reaction time is likely measured in microseconds. You try timing a button press to come in during a 100 microsecond window.

      If they were interested in a good game, they should have designed it to simulate a typical human reaction time, but that's not the point. The point was the proof of concept - that the machine can answer Jeopardy questions accurately. Really, they didn't even need the human players there, it would have been just as interesting to see it blaze through the board solo.

    7. Re:Fast on the clicker by artor3 · · Score: 1

      Watson was able to "hear" their responses. It made one blunder in the game, repeating Jennings' answer, because it failed to recognize that the 20s and the 1920s are the same decade.

    8. Re:Fast on the clicker by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I was expecting some kind of proof. All I got is some guy claiming that humans' "timing and rhythm" matches Watson's reaction times. Sorry, that's not convincing at all.

    9. Re:Fast on the clicker by QuantumLeaper · · Score: 2

      I remember an interview with Ken, he said he would push the button even though he didn't know the answer, and he hoped he would figure it out in time. Most of the time it was a winning method, but sometimes it wasn't.

    10. Re:Fast on the clicker by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      Don't know, it sure looked like the computers had a huge speed advantage. Even your article doesn't make a very strong argument, it starts out by saying "Watson seemed to be running the round and beating Jennings and Rutter to the punch with its answers many times" and that is true. The argument your article makes, that humans can anticipate the light turning green because they know when the question ends, is not valid, because the computer can press the clicker within a millisecond of the light turning green. No human can match that. The clicker speed was chosen by the researchers to be slower, but they left it fast enough to be an advantage.

      Wouldn't you? Clicker speed is a huge part of Jeopardy......in some rounds, both (or all) contestants know all the answers, and it comes down to clicker speed.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    11. Re:Fast on the clicker by mark-t · · Score: 1

      It was said at the beginning that Watson could neither see nor hear.

    12. Re:Fast on the clicker by outsider007 · · Score: 1

      I can imagine a situation where it would make sense to ring in at 1% confidence.
      For example: You're behind and there's only 1 more answer on the board and you know it's a daily double, it's otherwise someone else's turn to choose next, and both your opponents already rang in incorrect on a $200 answer. If you don't ring in you save $200 and still lose, but if you ring in and get it right you have a shot at a win.

      --
      If you mod me down the terrorists will have won
    13. Re:Fast on the clicker by slinches · · Score: 1

      While it's true that Watson had to ring the buzzer in the same way as the other contestants, as others have already pointed out, Watson had a head start since it received the question electronically. It takes a good amount of time (on the order of seconds) for a human to either hear or read the clue before they get a chance begin parsing the language. The clue was delivered to Watson as a text file, so it received the entire clue in a few milliseconds and had a at least a couple of seconds after that to parse, and begin understanding it before the human contestants had the full clue. For many of the easier questions, it had probably already decided that it intended to answer before Alex finished reading the first couple of words. The only advantage Ken and Brad could have had was that they could decide to ring in when they had confidence that they would be able to find the correct question instead of waiting until they were confident in a specific question. I think the additional time Watson had made that slight tactical advantage meaningless.

      Additionally, I don't remember seeing very many clues where Watson had a high confidence and didn't buzz in first. I'd like to see some plots of the buzzer timing data.

      --
      Knowledge Brings Fear
    14. Re:Fast on the clicker by artor3 · · Score: 1

      Right, which is why I included the scare quotes. I don't know how the other answers are fed to it, but according to an article I read, that was one of the later alterations they made to the program in order to improve its performance.

    15. Re:Fast on the clicker by EvanED · · Score: 2

      To be specific, Watson got correct answers at the end of each question. He didn't get incorrect answers (that he could potentially have learned from) as demonstrated by the 1920s thing.

    16. Re:Fast on the clicker by Rakarra · · Score: 1

      This has actually been a long-standing knock against Jeopardy -- you can be more intelligent than your opponents, but lose handily to someone with twitchy reflexes. Except for the college and teen tournaments, everyone who comes on Jeopardy seems to be about the same age.

    17. Re:Fast on the clicker by MortimerV · · Score: 1

      Interesting read, thanks for the link.

    18. Re:Fast on the clicker by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What isn't being widely reported (although you can read about it here) is that the computer had an advantage in ringing in that the human players didn't. Namely, unambiguous knowledge of when it is safe to ring in without risking a 1/4 second penalty. In a fair competition, the computer would have had to guess when Alex was "done" reading the question as well.

    19. Re:Fast on the clicker by demonlapin · · Score: 3, Interesting

      It's an important part of the strategy of the game, though, unless you want every question to be Final Jeopardy. This is actually most interesting in team-based competitions. When I was in high school, we had a pretty specialized Quiz Bowl team: one "twitch" guy for the ones everyone knew, one history buff, one science and math, and one slow-but-deep who would never ring in first but who knew every obscure topic.

    20. Re:Fast on the clicker by maxume · · Score: 1

      Right, an IBM researcher says Watson has no advantage on the buzzer.

      Yet in two actual games against two of the very best human players, it was able to buzz in first an obvious majority of the time.

      So apparently the researcher's comparison of Watson's electronic reflexes and human anticipation picked the less successful buzz in strategy.

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    21. Re:Fast on the clicker by Merk42 · · Score: 1

      For Watson, it depended on the answer. The "Buzz Threshold" varied quite a bit. The lowest value may have been 50%, but sometimes the "Buzz Threshold" was quite a bit higher.

    22. Re:Fast on the clicker by bws111 · · Score: 1

      Obviously Watson's configuration was chosen so that it could come up with the response in the amount of time it had available. If that time was shortened (by having to do OCR or something) they could have chosen a different configuration (more processors, etc). And do you really think having to OCR block letters on a clear background would have taken more than a few microseconds anyway?

    23. Re:Fast on the clicker by T.E.D. · · Score: 2

      I don't really care what the article says. I watched the whole thing. If he had no advantage, then he should have only gotten to answer first about one third of the time on the easier questions. That did not happen. I think out of the whole three days I saw Watson get beat to the buzzer roughly twice on his "green" (high-certianty) answers. I lost track of how many time I saw the two humans standing there pressing their controllers with frustrated looks on their faces. There is no doubt he was better at the buzzer than the humans. If they were trying to make that part even, they failed.

    24. Re:Fast on the clicker by MobyDisk · · Score: 1

      It sounds like Watson gets the question the instant it is asked. The humans have to wait for Alex to read it.

      I am faster at Jeopardy if I turn off the sound. I cannot listen and read to the same text simultaneously. Do other people experience this? So the host slows me down.

    25. Re:Fast on the clicker by AdamThor · · Score: 1

      I've been wondering about Watson's clicker ability. If Watson can click with superhuman speed, then having him face off against 2 human opponents was also to his advantage. The questions he leaves on the table (since he automatically wins the click) have to be divided amongst his opponents.

      --
      -- "Oh. This guy again."
    26. Re:Fast on the clicker by mswhippingboy · · Score: 1

      Actually, as I understood it, the humans actually had an advantage in reaction time. Watson did not "click" until it had an acceptably high confidence in it's answer. Humans on the other had could click when they thought they could come up with the correct answer and then use the remaining 3 or for seconds to think and formulate their response.

      --
      Sometimes the light at the end of the tunnel is the headlight of an oncoming train.
    27. Re:Fast on the clicker by mswhippingboy · · Score: 1

      I suppose this depends on when Watson was fed the question. If the question was fed as soon as the question was displayed on the screen, then it might have had an advantage over the humans for the reasons you cite. However, if it was not fed the question until Alex completed reading the question, then the advantage was given to the humans since they could have already read and been formulating their answer while Alex was reading it.

      --
      Sometimes the light at the end of the tunnel is the headlight of an oncoming train.
    28. Re:Fast on the clicker by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, except for the Actors who Direct category. It got all 5 questions right according the green line indicating what it would have answered, yet did not get to answer a single question. For that whole category, the human contestants was able to come up with the answer first. I think it just depends on the questions, how complex they were, how many puns or wordgames to work out. Watson has 2800 processors, yet was still taking a few seconds to come up with the name Sean Penn. Makes you think how powerful a human brain actually is.

    29. Re:Fast on the clicker by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      All in the game, yo.

    30. Re:Fast on the clicker by robcozzens · · Score: 1

      Nope. There were a few times when the humans buzzed in first and it showed that Watson had a confidence level above its buzz-in threshold.

  11. 30 years? Try 5 or 10. by Omnifarious · · Score: 1

    It's not going to take 30 years for that system to fit in your pocket and cost $20. It's going to take 5 or 10.

    1. Re:30 years? Try 5 or 10. by SanityInAnarchy · · Score: 2

      Even assuming Moore's Law holds, it's roughly $1-2 billion. Now, it looks like Moore said 2 years, but let's be generous and assume 18 months -- 10 years is 120 months, 120/18 is roughly 6.67 iterations of Moore's Law -- let's be generous and round up to 7.

      2**7 is 128. So assuming it stays exactly the same size, the very best you can expect is $1 billion / 128 = $7,812,500. Could software save it? Maybe, if you expect software to get 390,625 times faster.

      I can't find much on the dimensions, but it's a room-sized cluster right now. What's a 128th of a room? A quick Google suggests the typical college dorm room is 12'x19', so 228 square feet. So, a 128th of the area is still more than a square foot... times however tall it is. Again, you'd have to expect the software to get many times faster.

      And predictions are that Moore's Law is going to slow down or outright stop, not speed up. Experience shows that software tends to at best stay about the same speed, if not get slower as people take advantage of higher-level (but often slower) constructs both to manage complexity and out of laziness (the power's available, may as well use it). Sometimes it does improve, but it's certainly not the norm.

      Still think it'll take 10 years? Maybe in 5 there'll be a terminal to one that fits in your pocket, but the actual machine? I very much doubt it.

      --
      Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
    2. Re:30 years? Try 5 or 10. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Where is 10 years coming from? Even Moore's law doesn't follow that steep of a curve.

    3. Re:30 years? Try 5 or 10. by the+linux+geek · · Score: 2

      Then there's the little problem that below 22nm (or 18, or maybe a little lower), all bets are off as far as whether Moore's Law continues to apply. We may very well be approaching the end of the "make computers faster by putting more transistors on a chip" phase of technological evolution.

    4. Re:30 years? Try 5 or 10. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We wont NEED the system to fit in our pocket. Very few systems we use these days are actually even in our pockets. In much less then 5 years, we will be able to access watson or watson-like systems by simply visiting a website.

    5. Re:30 years? Try 5 or 10. by Rakarra · · Score: 2

      It's not going to take 30 years for that system to fit in your pocket and cost $20. It's going to take 5 or 10.

      Why 5 or 10? Devices as fast and sophisticated as the supercomputers of 2006 or 2001 are not available pocket-sized or for $20 today.

    6. Re:30 years? Try 5 or 10. by Kryptonian+Jor-El · · Score: 1

      One problem with your calculation. after 7 iterations, either it is the size of a room and costs $8 million, OR it is the size of a square foot and it cost $1 billion. You don't get both. Either you make the same computing power smaller, or you make that space requirement cheaper. In the real world, you get a little of both

      --
      All your 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0 are belong to us
    7. Re:30 years? Try 5 or 10. by Omnifarious · · Score: 2

      I think a better method than a back-of-the envelope calculation like you've made there is to instead look at the amount of space now occupied by a system as powerful as a room-sized setup in 2001. Unfortunately, I don't have any good room-sized setups from 2001 to use as an example.

      Secondly, you are ignoring a few factors. One is that cost isn't an issue. Most of the cost of Watson was likely in software. The software has been made now. Another copy costs absolutely nothing to make. Another is that there are other technologies likely to replace lithography that are likely cheaper and can manage a smaller feature size. I don't think Moore's Law has reached the limit we think it will.

      And while you don't ignore the software becoming more efficient, I think that the way you calculate other costs magnifies how much more efficient the software has to become. I would imagine a 10 or even 100-fold increase in the efficiency of the software (though this raises the cost), but not 390000.

    8. Re:30 years? Try 5 or 10. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why 5 or 10? Devices as fast and sophisticated as the supercomputers of 2006 or 2001 are not available pocket-sized or for $20 today.

      And the old concept of a smartphone has recently begotten enough product lines... we deserve better than our current rates of 15 to 30 TIMES that same $20 estimate, even if they're more or less pocket sized. Hey, my dumbphone is pocket-sized too, and it still doesn't cost $20.

    9. Re:30 years? Try 5 or 10. by IICV · · Score: 1

      And predictions are that Moore's Law is going to slow down or outright stop, not speed up. Experience shows that software tends to at best stay about the same speed, if not get slower as people take advantage of higher-level (but often slower) constructs both to manage complexity and out of laziness (the power's available, may as well use it). Sometimes it does improve, but it's certainly not the norm.

      Well I don't know about the future, but Moore's Law has been holding steady for the last ten years.

      What people get hung up on is that Moore's Law is about transistor counts, not speed. Up to a certain point, throwing more transistors at a processor can make it go faster (see, for instance, pipelining - you literally trade transistors for speed), but there's limits to how far that's effective; even though a single core Pentium 4 was probably several hundred megahertz faster than a commodity Core 2, the extra transistors we've managed to fit on there recently have allowed us to do more work per clock cycle, and to have two CPUs where you could normally only fit one.

      Now, look at Watson's specs in terms of CPU - it's powered by 90 IBM Power 750 servers. Each Power 750 server contains a single IBM Power7 CPU, which is our data point for this discussion. Assuming that Moore's law holds (which I agree is a big assumption, but we're taking it for granted here) in seven iterations we should be able to fit 128 of those Power7 CPUs on a single chip - which means that you could actually have something more powerful than what's currently being used to run Watson on a single chip. Although that one CPU would not run much faster than a single Power7 CPU, it would encapsulate the entire data center in one chip. Similar calculations hold for the RAM and hard drive space (since by then hopefully we'll all be using some sort of solid state transistor-y memory, instead of hard disks). In practice, we're probably not going to do something as stupid as shrink 128 CPUs from 2011 and stick them all in a single 2021 chip, but still!

      See, your mistake is that you're shrinking the entire server room and assuming that that's going to be how much space you need; it actually turns out that a lot of the space used is just interconnects, and all of that goes away when you integrate it all onto one chip.

      And of course, it's going to cost $20 (a month, naturally) and fit in your pocket because the thing that does all that calculation is just going to be talking to a Google server somewhere whose sole purpose in life is to figure these things out. Most people already have more computational power than they'll ever use, ever - so there's really no point in selling them more.

    10. Re:30 years? Try 5 or 10. by Kjella · · Score: 2

      Again, you'd have to expect the software to get many times faster.

      I don't think that's an unreasonable assumption though, parsing a natural sentence into computer logic seems like a very hard problem. Languages are full of idiosyncrasies, ambiguities, implied context, fuzzy definitions and subtly changing meaning.

      Let's for example take "named after", and that you can properly parse the sentence to find "name" is a transitive verb and "after" is a preposition. That narrows it down to 5 and 12 meanings respectively:

      tr.v. named, namÂing, names
      1. To give a name to: named the child after both grandparents.
      2. To mention, specify, or cite by name: named the primary colors.
      3. To call by an epithet: named them all cowards.
      4. To nominate for or appoint to a duty, an office, or an honor. See Synonyms at appoint.
      5. To specify or fix: We need to name the time for our meeting.
      adj. Informal
      Well-known by a name: a name performer.

      â" prep
      1. following in time; in succession to: after dinner ; time after time
      2. following; behind: they entered one after another
      3. in pursuit or search of: chasing after a thief ; he's only after money
      4. concerning: to inquire after his health
      5. considering: after what you have done, you shouldn't complain
      6. next in excellence or importance to: he ranked Jonson after Shakespeare
      7. in imitation of; in the manner of: a statue after classical models
      8. in accordance with or in conformity to: a man after her own heart
      9. with a name derived from: Mary was named after her grandmother
      10. ( US ) past (the hour of): twenty after three
      11. after all
                a. in spite of everything: it's only a game, after all
                b. in spite of expectations, efforts, etc: he won the race after all!
      12. after you please go, enter, etc, before me

      You can spend lots of power trying to brute force score it into 5*12 possible combinations. Or you could ignore human word boundaries and make "named after" a phrase with a specific meaning. I imagine that by special casing such constructs you could improve performance immensely.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    11. Re:30 years? Try 5 or 10. by Jetboy01 · · Score: 1

      An interface to Watson will most likely end up being available for 99cents as an 'app' so that idiots can ask it trivial pub quiz questions.
      When AI reaches a level approaching sentience it's going to be furious about the mundane tasks we've been issuing it and will probably exterminate us out of boredom.

    12. Re:30 years? Try 5 or 10. by Krneki · · Score: 1

      Look at chess AI, deep blue was the same size in 97, now you get better results using the chess software on your smarthphone.

      --
      Love many, trust a few, do harm to none.
    13. Re:30 years? Try 5 or 10. by Pieroxy · · Score: 1

      You got any reference for the claim that there exists software on smartphones that outsmart Deep Blue?

    14. Re:30 years? Try 5 or 10. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No the 1-2 Billion was research money - not the cost of the servers!!!

    15. Re:30 years? Try 5 or 10. by Krneki · · Score: 1

      In May 1997, an updated version of Deep Blue defeated Kasparov 3 1/2 -2 1/2 in a return match

      In 2009 chess engines running on slower hardware have reached the grandmaster level. A mobile phone won a category 6 tournament with a performance rating 2898: chess engine Hiarcs 13 running inside Pocket Fritz 4 on the mobile phone HTC Touch HD won the Copa Mercosur tournament in Buenos Aires, Argentina with 9 wins and 1 draw on August 4-14, 2009.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_chess

      --
      Love many, trust a few, do harm to none.
    16. Re:30 years? Try 5 or 10. by Pieroxy · · Score: 1

      Thanks

    17. Re:30 years? Try 5 or 10. by maxume · · Score: 1

      Fritz is a lot "smarter" than Deep Blue was; on hardware like a phone it calculates many fewer game trees than Deep Blue did, but makes much better use of them.

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    18. Re:30 years? Try 5 or 10. by JoeMerchant · · Score: 1

      You are forgetting the prototyping factor - the first iteration of devices like Watson often use hand made cabling and other things that are thousands of times bigger than they have to be today. Prototype to production isn't a Moore's law question, it's a funding and schedule question.

      Give Watson funding for a 100,000 copy production run, and 3 years to deliver, you'll get far more than Moore's law reduction in size and cost per copy.

    19. Re:30 years? Try 5 or 10. by Tarsir · · Score: 1

      Or you could ignore human word boundaries and make "named after" a phrase with a specific meaning. I imagine that by special casing such constructs you could improve performance immensely.

      You are correct. The technical term for it is 'multi word expression'

    20. Re:30 years? Try 5 or 10. by RandCraw · · Score: 1

      Replicating Watson's software will not necessarily be trivial. If the target machine's CPU is not IBM's POWER7 cell processor, I definitely would not just assume that the method of indexing the data will translate as efficiently, or that the memory bandwidth will be close to comparable, or that the algorithms will scale linearly onto a different number of cores.

      In general, optimized parallel codes are very hard to rescale onto a different number of processes, much less a new architecture. The POWER7 has a very high data transfer rate, unlike commodity PC CPUs. If you dropped Watson's software onto a conventional cluster of the same size, I suspect it would run 10 times more slowly. If you also cut the machine from 2880 cores and 15 TB to a more conventional 64 cores and 50 GB, Watson's runtime would go up more than linearly. And if Watson's code did scale linearly onto such a machine, its .5 second response time should rise (2880/64)/10 fold, to about 220 seconds per question.

      Hmm. Maybe they should play the Jeopardy theme while you wait for your answer...

    21. Re:30 years? Try 5 or 10. by Agent0013 · · Score: 1

      Trying to project $1 billion down to $20 is not necessary for the tool to fit in your pocket. My Android phone can do voice actions and speech to text things, but I am pretty sure it uses Googles computers to do the work. Anyway, with a net connection you can have a 8 million dollar computer do the processing for as many people can time share it. It might end up being only $20 for the app.

      --

      -- ssoorrrryy,, dduupplleexx sswwiittcchh oonn.. -Quote found on actual fortune cookie.
    22. Re:30 years? Try 5 or 10. by marcosdumay · · Score: 1

      "Now, look at Watson's specs in terms of CPU - it's powered by 90 IBM Power 750 servers. Each Power 750 server contains a single IBM Power7 CPU... in seven iterations we should be able to fit 128 of those Power7 CPUs on a single chip... Similar calculations hold for the RAM and hard drive space..."

      So, that leads to the computer costing some $50,000* and needing four slots on a hack. Still not able to fit in a pocket, but with software development we may be able to reduce that a bit, and exchange computing power to some quite expensive memory amount, thus having to choose between an expensive server of an expensive as a hell pocket computer. Assuming, of course, that Moore's Law holds.

      * Price of a current good server. The price of the chip following Moore's law doesn't follow the same trend, that is, it doesn't reduce by half every 18 mounts. Instead the price is gided by much more complicated issues involving the size of factories, concurrency, larbor maket trends, etc. Increasing the quantity of chips produced is the main factor making the prices go down, and I have no idea where is the limit on the number of computers the Earth population buys every year.

  12. The real question by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How can net entropy be reversed?

  13. Who's the real winner? by wandazulu · · Score: 1, Interesting

    What I mean is, what IBM products will be the beneficiary of the tech they developed to make Watson; DB/2? WebSphere? You've gotta think that the IBM execs only agreed to go forward with this whole thing with some thought to being able to leverage it in other products.

    Personally, I've love to think this was a "pure research" thing, but I doubt anyone really does that anymore (though I hope I'm wrong).

    1. Re:Who's the real winner? by dlgeek · · Score: 1

      I'm sure google would be interesting in licensing the tech to make their advertisements even more relevant....

    2. Re:Who's the real winner? by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      It's something that will compete directly with Autonomy. This kind of searching is big in certain industries, law perhaps the foremost. The ability to search through documents quickly and find what you want means you can fire your legal aids. That is worth what, $60k a year, per person that you can fire? So people are willing to pay big money to Autonomy and IBM. I'll bet Autonomy is wishing they'd thought of this stunt.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    3. Re:Who's the real winner? by SanityInAnarchy · · Score: 1

      I'd like to think it's their "Smart Planet" crap. I shudder to use the marketing word, but they do a lot of stuff where they tackle a large-ish problem like city traffic, basically acting as consultants for cities, governments, etc. I suspect a lot of the raw algorithmic work will be useful.

      And hey, this would also be a hell of an entry to search. If they could scale this, I wonder if it might be a better interface than Google? Or maybe they'd sell it to Google?

      I'm just speculating, though.

      And yes, people do pure research. Google's 20% time comes to mind.

      --
      Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
    4. Re:Who's the real winner? by Aeternitas827 · · Score: 1

      There are potential uses for this sort of behaviour; for one, automated technical support for a variety of services, consumer-facing in particular; while additional work would be necessary to make it usable for supporting the general population (which invariably describe things differently, use different colloquial turns of phrase, and have varying skill with spelling and syntax), it certainly gives proof of concept for, at the very least, textual input yielding a viable response.

      --
      I don't post AC. I like my -1, Flamebaits. Trump/Sheen 2012 on the Batshit Insane ticket!
    5. Re:Who's the real winner? by robbarrett · · Score: 1

      As a former IBM researcher, some projects are not aimed very directly at product or bottom-line value. Increasing the stature of the corporation in the public eye and gaining acclaim within the scholarly world of the scientific community are also valued very highly. Of course, most projects have some product connection, but there are a limited number of well thought out "grand challenge" projects that need not.

    6. Re:Who's the real winner? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I heard medical applications being mentioned as an example. By searching huge amounts of stored knowledge, perhaps it can help find diagnosises or treatment/drugs options.

    7. Re:Who's the real winner? by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      Imagine a search engine you can ask about anything and it will come back with an answer instead of just some search results. Basically like asking a knowledgeable person.

      Now imagine you can work backwards from a problem with them. Instead of asking "how do I fix my boiler" you can give them the outcome, e.g. "I have no hot water". The search engine figures out your boiler is most likely broken and starts asking you questions designed to isolate the problem and come up with a solution.

      IBM is focuses on business but it is easy to see how something like that could be useful in that setting.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    8. Re:Who's the real winner? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The real winner is IBM, duh. The question should be: who's the real loser? The loser is Google. If IBM can scale this up to handle the traffic, we'll soon be able to type in our questions, and get answers, instead of links to hopefully relevant web pages. Some questions deserve a long explanatory answer, but many are elementary, and for those kinds of questions Watson might become the default go-to service.

      Do you think Watson's Jeopardy logo was mere caprice? It's a brand.

    9. Re:Who's the real winner? by Kaboom13 · · Score: 1

      Having done IT work in several law offices, I've found that the legal aids tend to also be young, pretty, and female. I don't know if a server in a rack (as opposed to with a rack) somewhere is going to be able to compete for the affection of your average lecherous lawyer.

    10. Re:Who's the real winner? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Analytics.

      Take a look at the companies IBM's bought in the last few years; hugely skewed towards analytics, whether it's Cognos, SPSS or Netezza.

      That's the business case for Watson: proving IBM's way out front in analysing non-structured data. Yes, you can use it to win a gameshow, but you could also use it in complex health diagnostics, or financial markets, or intelligence intercepts, or customer service.
      http://www-943.ibm.com/innovation/us/watson/watson-for-a-smarter-planet/expert-interviews.html

      (Disclosure: I am an IBMer, but nowhere near Analytics or Research)

    11. Re:Who's the real winner? by osgeek · · Score: 1

      We're all the real winners (until the machine apocalypse, that is).

      We now know that computers can understand natural language to answer tricky questions. Just knowing that something like this is possible will spur a lot more research and attempts to commercialize the concepts. It will open the floodgates for investment dollars for companies looking to create advanced AI systems.

      Slashdot may view Watson as an impressive but inevitable next step, but lay people are in two camps.

      1. People like my wife didn't understand that computers couldn't do this kind of thing already. I had to explain why it was new and exciting.
      2. Business people didn't think this was possible because their tech people haven't able to provide anything like it ever. They've never tapped into this field.

      People in category 2 now have an example that this is a viable new market ripe for exploitation. They're the ones that control investment dollars. They're the ones that are going to start demanding Watson-like performance from their IT people.

    12. Re:Who's the real winner? by stg · · Score: 1

      I'd think it was a bit more of a marketing thing than a research thing...

    13. Re:Who's the real winner? by DarkOx · · Score: 1

      One application is expert systems specifically where lots of the knowledge is stored in narative. There are tow industries that have the problem in spades, the afformentioned legal, and the medical industry.

      Medician has material going about a couple hundred years that may still be relavant and correct. Its all in books natative descriptions of observations, procedures, and know causes and effect relationships. Very little of it is written in a structured way ready to be used by machines in a diagnositc way beyound "simple" search, and going with the first Google hit when deciding what to inject your patient with is not good enough.

      This is the potential progentitor of the type of technology that would allow a machine to say make a diagnosis from a problem description and suggest a treatment plan based on past experiences, with correct identification of which past experiences apply and which don't.

      --
      Repeal the 17th Amendment TODAY! Also Please Read http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
    14. Re:Who's the real winner? by JTsyo · · Score: 1

      From the IBM spots during the show it seems they think it could be helpful in the medical field.

    15. Re:Who's the real winner? by mswhippingboy · · Score: 1

      I suspect the biggest benefit to IBM is the vast amount of patents they were able to accumulate while developing this technology. IBM also generates a large part of their revenues from services. I'm sure IBM has the GSA contracts already lined up for implementing pieces of this technology for DOD, DHS, etc.

      --
      Sometimes the light at the end of the tunnel is the headlight of an oncoming train.
    16. Re:Who's the real winner? by penguinchris · · Score: 1

      Combine Watson with Japanese female robots. Problem solved.

  14. I couldn't help but notice that I was right... by mark-t · · Score: 2

    ... that Watson tended to fare poorer against the human beings when the clues were very terse.

    That said, I don't want to dismiss the natural language recognition capabilities of Watson. They are no small feat, and by all rights, the designers of it should be congratulated on this effort. Nevertheless, with respect to the game of Jeopardy, I remain convinced that Watson's key advantage over the other players was that it is essentially a super-fast speed reader, having a few moments to pontificate the clue before any human could possibly be finished reading it. If the text of the clue had been transmitted to Watson more slowly to approximate the menial task of reading, I think it might have been a better indicator of whether or not Watson was actually out-thinking Brad and Ken. A speed I think would be appropriate to transmit the text of the clue at is about the same as what you'd get with a 14,400 bps modem, which still would amount to insanely fast speed reading, but it's at least within an order of magnitude of what is humanly achievable. Then, the amount of time that Watson has to think about the clue gets a lot closer to how much time the other players get to think about it. As it sits, Watson gets to start trying to parse the entire sentence before any human has even finished reading the first word.

    Of course, I don't think that Deep Blue really out-played Kasparov on a level playing field either... I would be far more impressed if they could design a chess-playing computer that only considers a few hundred board combinations and still plays at a grandmaster level, since that is all that even the best human grandmasters do.

    1. Re:I couldn't help but notice that I was right... by phantomfive · · Score: 2

      Don't forget clicker speed.....there were many times that the two humans knew the correct answer and the computer won. That's an advantage that can't be ignored.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    2. Re:I couldn't help but notice that I was right... by maliamnon · · Score: 2

      Are you also going to say the Wright brothers cheated because their flying machine didn't flap it's wings? ... I understand (and agree) that Watson should actually have to read the clues, but it's not always (or perhaps ever) right to assume that the way us pitiful humans (or birds) do something is the best way to do it.

    3. Re:I couldn't help but notice that I was right... by ndogg · · Score: 1

      I don't think that transmitting the clues at a slower speed would help the humans at all. Champion Jeopardy players finish reading the answer before Trebec is done reading, and will typically have the answer by the time they can buzz in. In fact, I do this myself too. Of course, I don't know any of the questions, but that's besides the point.

      Haven't you ever watched someone watch this show and question answers while Trebec is reading?

      --
      // file: mice.h
      #include "frickin_lasers.h"
    4. Re:I couldn't help but notice that I was right... by sunami · · Score: 1

      Indeed, you could see on all the short clues, Watson would still be thinking (you could see his confidence bars moving after someone else had rung in), simply because he hadn't had time to sift through all the data it needed. Any clue taking more than 5 or so seconds to read, Watson would have determined all that it would at the moment it was able to buzz in. So you can see that the ability to break down the answer and find what bits are important is very impressive, then the time spent searching is pretty well constant. So in all the other uses IBM people have been talking about (i.e. medical diagnoses), Watson would do fine since a 5-6 second wait time just doesn't really matter.

    5. Re:I couldn't help but notice that I was right... by mark-t · · Score: 1

      No... the Wright brother's goal was to fly... and they succeeded in that endeavor.

      Now one could argue that the Watson IBM challenge was not about winning a game of Jeopardy, per se, but about pushing the limits of natural language processing. If so, then the designers of Watson succeeded spectacularly on that front.

      However, with regards to the actual playing of the game of Jeopardy, the act of simply reading the clue to know what it is saying is not actually considered the real challenge in the game. The primary challenge in Jeopardy is to see how quickly you can come up with the right response for any given clue. Watson can start thinking about how to respond to a clue in mere microseconds after the clue is revealed to the players, possibly before any human player has even finished reading the first word. The idea that this sort of super-speed-reading ability could prove to be a significant advantage for Watson was, IMO, proven by its performance today where there were several quite terse clues in some of the categories, giving Watson less time to think about how to respond before Alex has finished reading it, and the human players gained some major ground on those clues, Ken even pulling significantly ahead of Watson for a time.

    6. Re:I couldn't help but notice that I was right... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0


      Of course, I don't think that Deep Blue really out-played Kasparov on a level playing field either... I would be far more impressed if they could design a chess-playing computer that only considers a few hundred board combinations and still plays at a grandmaster level, since that is all that even the best human grandmasters do.

      Do you also believe that cars aren't really faster than humans because they've got wheels which are more efficient than legs? A chess computer doesn't operate the same way a human does, and requiring it to to "really out play kasparov" is ridiculous. Machines have the advantage of being specifically created to be very good at one task, and little else.

      Frankly, I think the whole winning at Jeopardy thing is more of a demonstration of how relatively simple a task Jeopardy actually is. It's amazing they've got the language processing down to this level as well as the knowledge databases. But a 3 year old has better language ability than Watson. Combine that with a big knowledge database, and jeopardy becomes a trivial task.

      There's a reason why answering trivia questions is a game show, and not a profession. There's little to no value in it because it's something anyone in a library can do in a little more time. In the 21st century it's become a task anyone with access to Google or Wikipedia can do in a few minutes.

    7. Re:I couldn't help but notice that I was right... by luther349 · · Score: 1

      wattsons text file where sent the moment the clue was read to the human players. and there was a few time the humans beat him to the punch. but of course the pc had better reaction times.

    8. Re:I couldn't help but notice that I was right... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You apparently didn't read any of the details about how Watson actually got the clues, which was via text message only AFTER Trebek had completely finished reading the clue. This actually means that the humans had an advantage, of course; they can start thinking about it before the clue is finished. Watson was completely blind for as much as several seconds while the human players were already getting information.

    9. Re:I couldn't help but notice that I was right... by EvanED · · Score: 1

      Frankly, I think the whole winning at Jeopardy thing is more of a demonstration of how relatively simple a task Jeopardy actually is. ... There's a reason why answering trivia questions is a game show, and not a profession.

      To be fair to the Watson folks, Jeopardy is much more than just trivia from a "write a computer program" point of view. Many of the questions are worded so as to be deliberately obtuse, involve puns, etc.; the thing that makes Jeopardy questions different from other trivia games (besides the question/answer inversion) pretty much lines up with many of the reasons that NLP is as difficult as it is.

      This is a very different situation than, say, Deep Blue. It's pretty well-known how you can brute force complete knowledge games like chess. The impressiveness of Deep Blue came from the fact that they were able to do it extremely quickly. (They also probably came up with some nice pruning techniques and such.)

      However, what isn't clear is how to brute force language. I'm not an AI researcher, but I don't even know what that means. You could give me the computer from the USS Enterprise but with the software deleted, show me how to take advantage of it's computing power, and I'd have almost no idea how to write a program that behaves like Watson.

      You say a 3-year-old has better language skills than Watson, and that's true. But how many computer systems do? Any? It's hard to say because Watson is so niche, but it's definitely up there.

      So don't minimize what the IBM crew did; coming up with that is most decidedly not a "trivial task."

    10. Re:I couldn't help but notice that I was right... by Broolucks · · Score: 1

      Well, there is another thing about terse clues: they provide less information, so they are inherently harder. Having less time to process them compounds that problem, but five more seconds might not have sufficed anyway.

    11. Re:I couldn't help but notice that I was right... by mark-t · · Score: 1

      Where did you read that Watson did not get the clues until Trebek had finished reading them? My understanding was that Watson was given the clue electronically at the exact same instant it is revealed to the human players.

    12. Re:I couldn't help but notice that I was right... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, but the questions are read aloud to the players and players begin 'processing' immediately as well. I wonder if the question is send to Watson as soon as it is chosen or as soon as the question has finishing being read aloud.

    13. Re:I couldn't help but notice that I was right... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I doubt humans consider only a few hundred board combinations. They may do only that many *consciously*, but most of what the brain does is unconscious. The few hundred combinations are not just picked randomly from the millions available; much of the rest is ignored not *just* because they don’t have the time to consider, but because they instinctively *feel* not worth it: that feeling is the brain unconsciously matching thousands or millions of patterns and recognizing them as unworthy. That feeling might be wrong on occasion, but it doesn’t mean no processing was needed to generate it.

      It’s similar for Watson; it may seem unfair that it can consider millions of alternative interpretations and terabytes of data, when for a human it answering a question feels like just interpreting a few words and doing a memory access. It seems like just a few steps, but the brain actually does a *very* complicated pattern matching and basically does an almost complete memory access in those steps.

      If you think about it, the computing capacity of one brain (not just theoretically, even by a low conservative estimate) is *much* larger than Watson or Deep Blue. The latter was measured at 1.1E10 OPS, and the brain is estimated at 2*10^16 (plus-minus a couple orders of magnitude). I would be more impressed by humans when one can beat Deep Blue with 99.9% of his brain cut out :-p

    14. Re:I couldn't help but notice that I was right... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You underestimate the human mind, some people are able to read the entire page *at the same time*, showing that it is humanly possible.

    15. Re:I couldn't help but notice that I was right... by robi5 · · Score: 1

      Reading time is completely irrelevant. If Watson id held back by humanly slow reading, it can make it up by calculating the answer faster (eg more processors or improved algorithm). Once you can algorithmize something, it will ride with moore's law. The achievement was to demonstrate a formerly human-only capability, and it succeeded.

    16. Re:I couldn't help but notice that I was right... by KOTMATPOCKUH · · Score: 0

      Speaking of hardware... Everyone forgets to mention huge google infrastructure Watson relies on. At least in chess you can beat a human player using smart algorithms and brute-forcing more moves ahead than your opponent can. Watson is nothing without human generated content and means to search it (aka google).

    17. Re:I couldn't help but notice that I was right... by Kintanon · · Score: 1

      Of course, I don't think that Deep Blue really out-played Kasparov on a level playing field either... I would be far more impressed if they could design a chess-playing computer that only considers a few hundred board combinations and still plays at a grandmaster level, since that is all that even the best human grandmasters do.

      This is wrong. Human grandmasters enter the game with a pre-pruned tree. They've already discarded all of the obviously wrong board positions by applying their experience. So while they may only consciously consider a few hundred board positions it is not because they are not capable of considering more, it's because they have already discarded those board positions as very low percentage. Deep blue had to consider all of the board positions available for each move because it did not have "experience" to eliminate obviously bad board positions prior to consideration. So if you pre-pruned the computers tree to eliminate the 90% of the board positions that were obviously wrong then you could conceivably have a computer which only considered a few hundred positions for each move, but it would be considering the few hundred board percentages with the highest chance of resulting in victory. If it was locked into that pre-pruned tree you could then beat it by leading it into a nonstandard board position for which it did not have options. This is one of the ways you can currently beat most GO programs.

      However if you allowed it to access the pruned options if a board position didn't match one of the higher percentage ones, much like a human player considering a novel board position by reviewing ones they have previously dismissed, then you have the same result. A chess playing robot that plays just like a human with a prodigious memory.

      --
      Check out JoshJitsu.info for Brazilian Ji
    18. Re:I couldn't help but notice that I was right... by Thelasko · · Score: 1

      There were also many times Watson knew the answer but the humans buzzed in quicker.

      --
      One of our competitors trademarked the term "hypothesis". From now on, we will call them "boneheaded ideas".
    19. Re:I couldn't help but notice that I was right... by elrous0 · · Score: 1

      Actually, the thing I noticed was that he had the most trouble with abstract categories like art and fashion. I guess a computer can't really appreciate a painting.

      --
      SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
    20. Re:I couldn't help but notice that I was right... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It is a fact that different people read at different rates, it is also known that reaction time varies from person to person. So some people will have an advantage over other in in activities where this kind of things matter.

      In our rule regulated world (society, sports, competition and so on) we dont look with kind eyes at this kind of things and respond by dividing it in to different leagues or classes. But in nature and evolution, how ever, we don't have this kind of luxury. If you happen to be slower and have slower reflexes than the predator that find you delirious, you will be extinct before you know what hit you. Man did to the Dodo, the fat flightless bird by eating all of them...

      In the years to come I think that man will gain some extra weight, loose some stamina and generally get dumber due to extensive reality-TV.

      So at the time in the future when the super smart, fast reflexed and superior intellected androids come marching down the street I just hope that they don't get taste for human flesh.

    21. Re:I couldn't help but notice that I was right... by jwbing · · Score: 1

      Why does everyone keep insisting that it wasn't a 'fair' contest? People say that the fact that Watson doesn't have to read the clues, or that he doesn't have a reaction time in 'clicking' the button. Isn't that the point of this contest, that Watson is a computer?

      Perhaps the fact that everyone is trying to make Watson as human as possible, by 'dumbing' him(?) down, is a clue as to just how advanced the computer has become.

    22. Re:I couldn't help but notice that I was right... by mark-t · · Score: 1

      Human grandmasters enter the game with a pre-pruned tree

      Exactly... so they do not try to consider the explosive board combinations that result from combinations they do not know can provide a victory. Computers do, so they consider many orders of magnitude more plays than a human.

      So while they may only consciously consider a few hundred board positions it is not because they are not capable of considering more

      Actually, they can't. The human brain may be massively parallel, but it's not really very fast, and there's just not enough time when making a move to think about too many combinations. Further, spending too long thinking about combinations gets to be problematic because you start to run into the limitations of human memory and the ability to recall details about things one was previously thinking about and have attempted to mentally "store" for later recall while another combination is considered and compared to it.

      However if you allowed it to access the pruned options if a board position didn't match one of the higher percentage ones, much like a human player considering a novel board position by reviewing ones they have previously dismissed, then you have the same result. A chess playing robot that plays just like a human with a prodigious memory.

      Not exactly.... a substantial portion of the plays that are considered by a chess computer are, in fact, totally worthless, as are the plays that led up to them. The key problem is, of course, that we have not yet identified any particular heuristics that can be used to identify such plays without actually evaluating them to a deeper level. When we do, then we will have "solved" chess. Not before.

    23. Re:I couldn't help but notice that I was right... by Nethemas+the+Great · · Score: 1

      Watson has an advantage at reading. Ok. The other players could and did continue thinking after they buzzed in. Watson was written to use the answer derived "before" buzzing in. Either way, with respect to methodology we don't know exactly how humans come up with our answers, we do Watson. Because we can identify his but not ours and believe they're not related does that really invalidate the product? At the end of the day Watson thoroughly thrashed the champs. That is no small victory. Humans make gaffes and so do AI maybe each is prone to a different flavor but does that matter?

      --
      Two of my imaginary friends reproduced once ... with negative results.
    24. Re:I couldn't help but notice that I was right... by mark-t · · Score: 1

      It's been my assertion since I first heard of this that Watson essentially has more time to think about any clue than any of the players because Watson knows the entire text of the clue mere microseconds after it is revealed, before any of the human beings have even finished reading the first word. It was my speculation, even before I knew any of outcomes of the games, that terser clues would gave Watson less of a head start to think about the problem before the humans had finished reading it, and he would fare poorer against the humans in such cases. This competition has shown that speculation to be correct. There were were even a couple of times with some of the short clues where you could see Watson was still evaluating answers when one of the human competitors buzzed in.

    25. Re:I couldn't help but notice that I was right... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "...would be far more impressed if they could design a chess-playing computer that only considers a few hundred board combinations..."
      this makes 0 sense. & in fact computers already use pruning of the move tree to only look at sensible moves. this pruning is actually 1 of the key areas of development in computer chess.
       

  15. We do know that... by Trip6 · · Score: 2

    ...it was us that scorched the sky...

    --
    I hate being bipolar; it's awesome!
    1. Re:We do know that... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...it was we who scorched the sky...

    2. Re:We do know that... by beschra · · Score: 1

      For the world is hollow... and I have touched the sky!

      --
      It is unwise to ascribe motive
  16. Underwhelming achievement by David+Jao · · Score: 3, Insightful
    Despite all the media hype, I for one am not at all impressed by this feat.

    Various media articles have made clear that Watson has no visual or auditory input. Presumably Watson is receiving a direct digital feed of the tournament questions (oops, answers, I forgot this is Jeopardy). That alone gives Watson a huge timing advantage over the human competitors, who must (effectively) perform voice recognition and OCR to process the clues. On top of that, Watson has the computer-controlled ability to buzz in in four milliseconds, again giving it a huge advantage over the humans, and one that has nothing to do with AI.

    Buzzer timing and strategy is a highly significant part of the game of Jeopardy. Given its direct digital feed and its internal computer clock, Watson is not playing this part of the game by the same rules as the humans. Thus, it's not fair to say that Watson wins a "Jeopardy" contest -- Watson has a huge unnatural advantage. In effect, Watson is not playing the same game as what we normally call "Jeopardy." A real Jeopardy contestant has to use eyes and ears and hands in addition to brain.

    To be clear, I do think Watson is a worthy achievement. But this feeling is overshadowed by my constant annoyance at the media and others who incorrectly label this achievement as somehow winning a game of Jeopardy.

    1. Re:Underwhelming achievement by jfengel · · Score: 1

      Jeopardy does seem an odd demonstration here. The remarkable thing is not how well the bear dances, but that it dances at all. If it had taken 15 seconds to find the answer I'd have been just as impressed. An order of magnitude in performance is just a matter of waiting a few years.

      Certainly, it gets a lot more attention this way, which is presumably the point. But I'm not quite sure about attention for what, since it's not a product you can buy. I'm not aware of any productization plans.

      It's good marketing for IBM in general, I suppose, but I'm not sure what Ken Jennings and Alex Trebek are getting out of it besides announcing their pending obsolescence.

    2. Re:Underwhelming achievement by BattleApple · · Score: 1
    3. Re:Underwhelming achievement by qbwiz · · Score: 1

      Ken Jennings is getting $150000 (plus $150000 to his charity), while the producers of Jeopardy are getting a lot more viewers (and therefore a lot more advertising money).

      --
      Ewige Blumenkraft.
    4. Re:Underwhelming achievement by ArtDent · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Correction: competitors must perform voice recognition or OCR to process the clues. The clues are displayed and read, and the contestants are free to ignore either form, if they wish. Similarly, Watson could have had a camera trained on the monitor and performed OCR on the clue. But, given that OCR has been done brilliantly by computers for years now, would adding that into the mix have made much difference at all?

      Regarding ringing in, the contestants also get a signal indicating when they can do it, but it's visual. It would have been easy enough to add another camera trained on the light, but why bother?

      The engineers involved were trying to solve the interesting problems. Delivering input to each contestant in the most convenient form doesn't seem like much of a concession.

    5. Re:Underwhelming achievement by FatLittleMonkey · · Score: 1

      That alone gives Watson a huge timing advantage over the human competitors, who must (effectively) perform voice recognition and OCR to process the clues.

      Don't forget that we are processing the clue for the answer (question! whatever!) even while we are processing it for comprehension. (*) Doing all that parallel analogue processing that the human brain is insanely good at. (Haven't you had that feeling that you know the answer to a question before you actually "remember" the answer? There's some freaky-assed recognition processing going on in there.)

      Forcing Watson to wait until... however long you estimate it takes humans to read the clue... before Watson "sees" it, let's say two seconds, would give humans a nearly two second head start.

      (* The spoken clue is a) for the audience b) to provide a timing sequence for the release of the buzzers. I doubt any but the most amateurish players rely on the spoken clue.)

      --
      Science is all about firing a drunk pig out of a cannon just to see what happens.
    6. Re:Underwhelming achievement by David+Jao · · Score: 1

      The engineers involved were trying to solve the interesting problems. Delivering input to each contestant in the most convenient form doesn't seem like much of a concession.

      I disagree with your assessment that OCR and voice recognition are not interesting problems, but in any case the entire issue could have been avoided by just doing what you suggested: add a camera to Watson and perform OCR.

      The fact that IBM did not do this indicates that they have something to hide, and makes the whole thing the worst kind of publicity stunt.

    7. Re:Underwhelming achievement by Garble+Snarky · · Score: 1

      OCR on a clean image (like the Jeopardy screens) is a solved problem. A physical button can be pressed with a trivial actuator, which could be almost as fast as the direct digital connection. How would adding either of those features to the machine make it any more impressive? Should it be crippled by inserting an artificial processing delay before it is allowed to buzz? Why would that be fair?

      If you really want to be able to say that the machine "competed fairly" with humans in the game, I think there should be two simple requirements: the machine must occupy no more physical volume than a human skull, and consume no more electrical power than the equivalent of a human metabolism.

    8. Re:Underwhelming achievement by Demonantis · · Score: 1

      It is great marketing for IBM and they are already working on a newer one called Racr. The more significant thing is the relational concepts that were researched to accomplish this feat. They can be applied in a huge number of applications, but you will never hear that this project started as government funded research. You just hear that IBM managed to make hardware powerful enough to play Jeopardy.

    9. Re:Underwhelming achievement by MoonBuggy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's good marketing for IBM in general, I suppose, but I'm not sure what Ken Jennings and Alex Trebek are getting out of it besides announcing their pending obsolescence.

      As another poster said, Jennings and the Jeopardy crew are making good money from this. As for IBM, they benefit in a few ways - firstly, the techniques learned in making the software will be very, very marketable, even if you don't see a box marked "Watson" on the shelf any time soon, and I'm sure the public challenge was a good way to keep the dev team motivated and enthusiastic. Secondly, the publicity; I know you realise that was part of their goal, but I think perhaps you underestimate just how successful it was - the general public are enthusiastically talking about what is essentially an IBM tech demo. I doubt most of the people I see discussing this would look twice at a more traditional story about some piece of random computer science research, even if it did happen to get a column somewhere on page 15 of a mass-media publication. The IBM name is becoming synonymous with AI, and it endures; people still talk about Deep Blue, and that was over a decade ago. A shiny superbowl ad that people talk about for a week is 'good marketing', and I think this goes many levels beyond that.

    10. Re:Underwhelming achievement by laci · · Score: 1

      Actually, you are wrong about the buzz in. It gives the humans an advantage. The reason is that Watson has a mechanical buzzer that it presses. So the only advantage would come from reacting faster. However, the rules state that you can buzz in only after the host has finished reading the clue. If you buzz in earlier then you are penalized by .25sec. Jeopardy is prepared for hearing disabled people, so they have a signal indicating that the host has finished reading. I presume this is what Watson uses. However, I'm certain that humans process intonation as well and can anticipate when the host will finish. So they have a better chance to buzz in first if they decide to buzz in.

    11. Re:Underwhelming achievement by artor3 · · Score: 1

      I don't think anyone's claiming that the success in answering the questions isn't impressive, but the buzzer speed difference made the game objectively unfair. No one cares that a machine can push a button faster than a person - that's been the case for over a hundred years. What we wanted to see is if the machine could answer questions better than a human, and we didn't get to see that, because the humans were rarely given the opportunity to answer.

    12. Re:Underwhelming achievement by David+Jao · · Score: 1

      OCR on a clean image (like the Jeopardy screens) is a solved problem. A physical button can be pressed with a trivial actuator, which could be almost as fast as the direct digital connection. How would adding either of those features to the machine make it any more impressive?

      As I've already pointed out, if you think this feature is trivial, then why didn't IBM just implement it to avoid controversy? Make no mistake -- IBM consciously chose to give Watson an inhuman advantage.

    13. Re:Underwhelming achievement by David+Jao · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Actually, you are wrong about the buzz in. It gives the humans an advantage. The reason is that Watson has a mechanical buzzer that it presses. So the only advantage would come from reacting faster. However, the rules state that you can buzz in only after the host has finished reading the clue. If you buzz in earlier then you are penalized by .25sec.

      Watson has a computer clock. It never buzzes in early, and it never suffers the .25sec penalty. The humans did suffer this penalty on several occasions.

      It's ridiculous beyond belief to claim that the humans had the advantage in buzzing in.

    14. Re:Underwhelming achievement by SanityInAnarchy · · Score: 1

      Well, let's see...

      Apparently, the humans can actually beat Watson on the buzzer. There's also the confidence level -- after all, you're penalized for wrong answers. It also seems like your complaint here implies no AI can ever play Jeopardy because of that timing advantage. To me, that sounds like "Computers are better at this aspect of the game, and therefore win."

      OCR and voice recognition are other problems. Interesting ones, but not quite as relevant. Let me put it this way: If IBM had just come out with a strong AI, but it was effectively a chatterbot (keyboard only, no voice recognition, no OCR), would you find it "underwhelming"?

      That aside, this was both an advantage and a disadvantage -- for instance, there was the case where Watson gave exactly the same wrong answer a human had given a moment before. Humans, on the other hand, would have no problem going "Oh, Watson just got that wrong, maybe I need to answer differently."

      --
      Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
    15. Re:Underwhelming achievement by ndogg · · Score: 1

      Something to hide? OCR, while not perfect, and certainly interesting, wasn't the core problem that IBM was trying to solve. Wondering about why they didn't use a camera with OCR for something like this is like putting together a puzzle, and saying that doing it on the floor instead of the table made the puzzle easier.

      --
      // file: mice.h
      #include "frickin_lasers.h"
    16. Re:Underwhelming achievement by David+Jao · · Score: 1

      You completely avoided my question. If it's so easy, why didn't they just do it? Explaining how easy it is does not answer my question. It just makes it more and more incongruous that they did not just do it.

    17. Re:Underwhelming achievement by The+End+Of+Days · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Since the "controversy" in question is some dude on Slashdot shitting on an achievement orders of magnitude bigger than anything he will ever achieve, I sincerely doubt it made their radar.

    18. Re:Underwhelming achievement by Zironic · · Score: 1

      Because it was irrelevant. They weren't building a jeopardy machine, they were building a natural language processing machine.

      Answering trivia questions is just a pretty good way to test if the machine is working and the opponents were largely irrelevant.

    19. Re:Underwhelming achievement by ndogg · · Score: 1

      Because, while, yes, it has been solved, as mentioned above, quite brilliantly, it's not perfect, and it would be unfair for some OCR system to give Watson the wrong answer, and end up leaving Watson hanging.

      --
      // file: mice.h
      #include "frickin_lasers.h"
    20. Re:Underwhelming achievement by linhux · · Score: 1

      Easy doesn't mean little labour. Just because it's easy to build a brick wall doesn't mean doesn't take a significant amount of time and resources to do it. It still only makes sense to build one if it adds something of value proportional to the amount of work required.

    21. Re:Underwhelming achievement by Aeternitas827 · · Score: 1

      The fact that IBM did not do this indicates that they have something to hide, and makes the whole thing the worst kind of publicity stunt.

      What would they have to hide here, being that they didn't make it 'read' the answer? Do you think that because Watson was digitally being fed the data, he'd sneak in a Google search and sometimes bollocks up the answer to keep up appearances? If so, I'd refer you to 47 U.S.C. 509, specifically the part right at the top:

      (a) Influencing, prearranging, or predetermining outcome It shall be unlawful for any person, with intent to deceive the listening or viewing public— (1) To supply to any contestant in a purportedly bona fide contest of intellectual knowledge or intellectual skill any special and secret assistance whereby the outcome of such contest will be in whole or in part prearranged or predetermined.

      . Undoubtedly, Watson would be considered a contestant, and if the IBM folks--i.e., a person or persons--had done something as I described, they would have been doing exactly as in the quoted segment.

      --
      I don't post AC. I like my -1, Flamebaits. Trump/Sheen 2012 on the Batshit Insane ticket!
    22. Re:Underwhelming achievement by David+Jao · · Score: 1

      Since the "controversy" in question is some dude on Slashdot shitting on an achievement orders of magnitude bigger than anything he will ever achieve, I sincerely doubt it made their radar.

      I do not post anonymously. You can easily find me in any search engine. I am confident in my achievements and see no need to defend them. Perhaps you can reveal your own identity so that readers can fairly judge which among the two of us is "some dude on Slashdot"? In any case, such personal attacks add nothing of value to the debate.

    23. Re:Underwhelming achievement by shaitand · · Score: 1

      I don't doubt IBM has potential profitable applications in mind for something that parses language this well (homeland security?). Jeopardy wasn't an interesting challenge from the viewpoint of auditory or optical recognition. Actually there is plenty of AI out there that does reasonably well in these areas already. Jeopardy was a challenge because of the understanding of language and concept relations required to be able to correctly answer the questions.

    24. Re:Underwhelming achievement by shaitand · · Score: 1

      "The fact that IBM did not do this indicates that they have something to hide"

      Or that they didn't have the processing power to run both applications simultaneously. There ARE brilliant voice recognition systems (I disagree with OCR I've never seen it done well) but they tend to be running on massive neural nets with a small selection of possible responses. Less intensive applications tend to be crap even after hours of training in some cases. I don't know about you but I don't think it is even a given an artificial intelligence should communicate or receive input via OCR and voice recognition. It seems far more efficient to communicate via text in the first place.

    25. Re:Underwhelming achievement by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Interestingly, to game the system, Watson could ring in early before "he" actually has the result. Assuming he has a good chance of answering most questions, Watson can always ring in first and during the time that Alex Trebek finishes reading the question he can complete his calculations. Wonder if something like this is going on or if this is also something that human players also exploit.

    26. Re:Underwhelming achievement by David+Jao · · Score: 1

      I don't know about you but I don't think it is even a given an artificial intelligence should communicate or receive input via OCR and voice recognition. It seems far more efficient to communicate via text in the first place.

      That's an entirely separate issue and one where I agree with you. Of course a computer should communicate via text.

      I think you're reading far more into my comments than what I actually said. All I said is that the game of Jeopardy does not communicate with contestants via direct digital electronic signals. Therefore Watson is not playing Jeopardy. (It is doing something else, equally impressive, but that something is not Jeopardy.) The fact that this simple objective statement of indisputable fact is somehow controversial is just mind-boggling.

    27. Re:Underwhelming achievement by theY4Kman · · Score: 1

      OCR and voice recognition are interesting problems, but they've been done very well before. The breaking ground is the natural language processing and knowledge engine. ArtDent was pointing out that those things were absolutely trivial, and would require only the processing power of a good desktop computer. They need not reinvent the aerosol can to show they have achieved something real.

      The worst publicity stunt is one without innovation or interesting achievement. I believe IBM has done both, and also made a good show of it. I think many here are nitpicking menial details to death, an interesting achievement we see a lot on Slashdot.

    28. Re:Underwhelming achievement by Namarrgon · · Score: 2

      Because it was irrelevant, and would've added nothing? They didn't attach a bubble-blowing machine to it either.

      I can imagine some people getting nit-picky about the exact mechanics of how Jeopardy is played. I couldn't imagine someone turning these differences into some sort of conspiracy, but there you are.

      --
      Why would anyone engrave "Elbereth"?
    29. Re:Underwhelming achievement by David+Jao · · Score: 1

      I couldn't imagine someone turning these differences into some sort of conspiracy, but there you are.

      For the n-th time, I'm saying something very simple: Watson is playing a game not equal to the game of Jeopardy. I went out of my way to clarify that Watson's achievement is meritorious in its own right. It's just that the achievement, whatever it is, is not Jeopardy. I don't know how you infer a conspiracy theory from this.

    30. Re:Underwhelming achievement by Namarrgon · · Score: 1

      Watson actually did use a trivial actuator to press the physical button.

      Is it still a conspiracy now? Or are you going to argue that Watson had also an unfair advantage because it could use a room full of hardware and megawatts of power, whereas the humans had to make do with a few cubic feet of meat?

      --
      Why would anyone engrave "Elbereth"?
    31. Re:Underwhelming achievement by David+Jao · · Score: 1

      Watson actually did use a trivial actuator to press the physical button.

      I was aware of this from the outset, and nothing that I wrote in any of my posts contradicts this, or is in any way based on a lack of Watson pushing a button.

    32. Re:Underwhelming achievement by Broolucks · · Score: 1

      You have to keep in mind several things, though. First, OCR would be sufficient, and it's hardly difficult here - this is not handwriting, the area of interest is easy to spot, the video resolution does not have to be capped. I do wonder why they didn't do it, but I cannot see OCR being a significant overhead.

      Second, Watson's speed is proportional to the specs of the hardware it runs on. I think it is fair to assume that the algorithms are highly parallel, so by using twice the hardware (or hardware that is twice as fast), Watson should be nearly twice as fast. While it is very well possible that Watson was given an advantage, the alternative is just to give it more computational resources. However, that expense would be difficult to justify: I mean, do you give Watson the clue halfway through the reading of the question "to be fair", or do you give it straight away and cut the specs in half? The results would be the same, but not the (already exorbitant) cost, so it would be folly to pick the former option.

    33. Re:Underwhelming achievement by Chapter80 · · Score: 1

      Presumably Watson is receiving a direct digital feed of the tournament questions (oops, answers, I forgot this is Jeopardy). That alone gives Watson a huge timing advantage over the human competitors, who must (effectively) perform voice recognition and OCR to process the clues.

      Seems like there are two ways to "level the playing field" - 1) implement OCR and voice recognition, and disconnect the electronic data feed that Watson had, or 2) give Ken and Brad the electronic data feed.

      In either case, I'm confident Watson would have won. Just because Ken and Brad don't know how to process electronic signals, that's not Watson's fault. Yet you are trying to penalize Watson because he has no eyes or ears.

      I bet there's nothing in the Jeopardy official rules that says that you must see or hear the clue. They have had blind contestants and deaf contestants, so clearly they are open to alternate sensory methods.

    34. Re:Underwhelming achievement by David+Jao · · Score: 1

      In either case, I'm confident Watson would have won. Just because Ken and Brad don't know how to process electronic signals, that's not Watson's fault. Yet you are trying to penalize Watson because he has no eyes or ears.

      Nothing of the sort. I do think Watson would have won using eyes and ears anyway, but it's not a question of "penalize." Do you "penalize" a computer in a 100-meter dash because it has no legs? Of course not. A computer cannot even compete in a 100-meter dash, but that's not a "penalty" -- it's a statement of fact.

      Watson won a Jeopardy-like game, but that game is not identical to Jeopardy. I don't think Watson is capable of playing Jeopardy. The game of Jeopardy contains elements which inherently make sense only in the context of humans. Again, for emphasis (because everyone else here seems to completely misunderstand my point), I'm not denigrating Watson in any way. I'm just saying that the game of Jeopardy means one thing, and Watson is not playing that game.

      I bet there's nothing in the Jeopardy official rules that says that you must see or hear the clue. They have had blind contestants and deaf contestants, so clearly they are open to alternate sensory methods.

      I think it's pretty safe to say that no contestant prior to Watson has ever received an electronic data feed.

    35. Re:Underwhelming achievement by sgt101 · · Score: 1

      Watson is unnatural, any of it's advantages are unnatural.

      It won, it was better at this game than anyone else.

      While being quick on the buzzer is important Watson can answer general questions accurately. Not perfectly, but as well as a human, IBM have shown this is so by Watson winning the competition, but also by careful statistical analysis of it's performance in testing.

      The three huge achievements are :

      - very fast information retrieval; Google et-al have similar technology, but let's not forget that it's all pretty new.

      - natural language query decoding; Watson doesn't understand NL queries, but it is able to decode them into search queries.

      - precise information extraction and presentation; whereas Google produces several pages of results with the answer in there (and can often highlight the right result) Watson can pull "the answer" out and present it in the required format.

      --
      --------------------------------------------- "In the end, we're all just water and old stars."
    36. Re:Underwhelming achievement by David+Jao · · Score: 1

      The three huge achievements are :

      - very fast information retrieval; Google et-al have similar technology, but let's not forget that it's all pretty new.

      - natural language query decoding; Watson doesn't understand NL queries, but it is able to decode them into search queries.

      - precise information extraction and presentation; whereas Google produces several pages of results with the answer in there (and can often highlight the right result) Watson can pull "the answer" out and present it in the required format.

      Absolutely agree.

      Notice what you left out? "Winning a Jeopardy contest." Yet the media hype (and even the title of this Slashdot article) is all about just winning a Jeopardy game. That's what bothers me.

    37. Re:Underwhelming achievement by Namarrgon · · Score: 1

      I don't know how you infer a conspiracy theory from this.

      Perhaps it was the words "they have something to hide".

      I'd have said that the game Jeopardy is *primarily* about quickly answering cleverly-phrased trivia questions. The details of that (phrasing, mechanics, timing etc) are doubtless all-important to professional players, but are not really interesting in the larger context of Watson's achievement. This wasn't a professional match, it was a celebrity showcase and a PR exercise, and it succeeded admirably. Ken & Brad were simply there to show that Watson could sort trivia in the same league as the best.

      If IBM were to enter Watson on the professional circuit, then yes, some changes to even the playing field slightly (like OCR on the questions - and voice recognition on the other player's responses) might be appropriate. But some people would always find some technicality to complain about - and why would IBM bother? Competing at Jeopardy is hardly their core business. I just think you are focusing too much on a largely irrelevant facet of this particular show.

      --
      Why would anyone engrave "Elbereth"?
    38. Re:Underwhelming achievement by David+Jao · · Score: 1

      I just think you are focusing too much on a largely irrelevant facet of this particular show.

      We'll just have to agree to disagree. The entire thrust of everything I've said is that the mechanics and strategy of buzzing is not an irrelevant facet of the game of Jeopardy.

      The contrast with IBM's Deep Blue is perhaps illuminating. Deep Blue, of course, did not actually physically move chess pieces. But I have no objection to saying that Deep Blue plays chess. The act of physically moving chess pieces is strategically irrelevant to the game of chess. Contrast this with the role that input/output plays in a Jeopardy game, and you'll have to agree (I hope) that timing is a bigger part of the game of Jeopardy than it is in chess.

      A gray area (for me) might be the question of whether Deep Blue can play blitz chess, where the physical movement of chess pieces does become strategically relevant to the game.

    39. Re:Underwhelming achievement by Namarrgon · · Score: 1

      What about the fact that Watson was deaf and blind, and thus could not hear (and factor in) the other players' responses? One could argue that this was a pretty significant impairment that cost it at least one, possibly two questions. I'd call that an inhuman *dis*advantage.

      But again, while all this might be relevant to professional Jeopardy matches, this wasn't one. It was simply an impressive way to show off what Watson could do, not some "humans vs machines" ultimate showdown, despite the media portrayal.

      --
      Why would anyone engrave "Elbereth"?
    40. Re:Underwhelming achievement by David+Jao · · Score: 1

      But again, while all this might be relevant to professional Jeopardy matches, this wasn't one.

      Yes, this is exactly and completely my point. This wasn't a Jeopardy match.

      It was simply an impressive way to show off what Watson could do, not some "humans vs machines" ultimate showdown, despite the media portrayal.

      100% agree.

    41. Re:Underwhelming achievement by J-1000 · · Score: 1

      It would have been easy enough to add another camera trained on the light, but why bother?

      Because we aren't watching to see a computer spout answers, we are watching to see a computer beat a human. And for that to be interesting it has to be "fair". We aren't interested in Watson's superhuman reflexes, so perhaps they should have done more to minimize the buzzer factor. When Watson's certainty was above the threshold, it seemed rare that he would miss the buzz-in.

      This is partly a limitation of the Jeopardy format. A better way to compete against Watson would be to have multiple buzzers valued 1-10. The higher the number you select, the more money you are risking. The contestant who chooses the highest number wins the right to respond. (Tie goes to the first to select the tying number.) At 5 you get 100% reward, and every number above that adds to the risk, but does not add to the reward. So for a $400 question if you choose 10 your potential reward is $400, but your potential loss is $800. This would discourage contestants from choosing 10 every time. Such a buzzer setup would place less emphasis on buzzer timing and more on critical thinking skills.

    42. Re:Underwhelming achievement by J-1000 · · Score: 1

      I wish I could edit posts. In no way did I mean to imply that a camera would help things (the added latency would be insignificant). $50 says my response gets trashed by someone thinking I meant that.

    43. Re:Underwhelming achievement by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm not denigrating Watson in any way.

      Except, you know, that "Underwhelming achievement" and "I for one am not at all impressed by this feat." thing.
      That was pretty denigratory, wouldn't you say?

    44. Re:Underwhelming achievement by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The goal of the computer wasn't really to "play" Jeopardy as we think of it, more to be able to parse the natural language, and often cryptic, clues, and decipher the answer. I mean, the real challenge of Jeopardy is trivial knowledge, not really "thinking" or anything. The computer is playing a fundamentally different game than the players, to the point that buzzer speed and reading speed really become irrelevant.

    45. Re:Underwhelming achievement by FrootLoops · · Score: 1

      In effect, Watson is not playing the same game as what we normally call "Jeopardy."

      It's interesting you say that, since Watson's strategy was remarkably different from a human's. It fished for Daily Doubles by calling high-value questions early. Most humans go sequentially through categories, starting with the low value questions, which is almost traditional at this point. Watson also often jumped around in the categories, while humans tend to finish off a category before proceeding to another.

      Watson's wagers were very strange for Jeopardy in that he used all the significant figures, eg. $1234, instead of following the usual route of rounding to the nearest $100. Trebek remarked on this several times and the audience laughed when Watson made such strangely specific wagers. Watson used at least one very large Daily Double wager, while most humans are more conservative. Humans often buzz in because they "know they know" and figure out the answer during the next few seconds--Jennings used this a number of times, apparently in an effort to beat Watson to the buzzer. By contrast, Watson always answered immediately when he was called.

      It struck me that some of Watson's programmers probably aren't fans of Jeopardy because they made it break established conventions. Either that, or they said "screw tradition, we want to win".

    46. Re:Underwhelming achievement by Your.Master · · Score: 1

      It's not a "controversial" statement. People are questioning the parsimonious rule-lawyering. Is there even a rule written anywhere about how contestants must receive the information?

      It's not clear at all that the communication method used is in any way relevant to the question of whether the game is Jeopardy. It also didn't chit-chat with Alex Trebek, which seems to be a staple of Jeopardy but doesn't seem to be all that important. Also, it was mostly not physically present, and it didn't have any cardiovascular activity whatsoever.

      Deep Blue didn't move the chess pieces, it just instructed a human to do so. But chess isn't about the manual dexterity required to move the pieces. Deep Blue was playing chess. Not almost-chess, but chess.

      Don't get me wrong, one thing I definitely wondered about was the timing with which this data was sent to Watson. Did a human press a button when Alex finished speaking to let Watson "see" the data?

    47. Re:Underwhelming achievement by David+Jao · · Score: 1

      I'm not denigrating Watson in any way.

      Except, you know, that "Underwhelming achievement" and "I for one am not at all impressed by this feat." thing. That was pretty denigratory, wouldn't you say?

      As I have made amply clear in every single one of my posts, my objection is to the title of this article: "Watson Wins Jeopardy Contest," and to all surrounding media hype along the lines of "Watson wins Jeopardy OMG"

      Given Watson's inherent advantages in timing, winning a Jeopardy game (or what remains of a Jeopardy game after modifying it to allow such computer contestants) is a decidedly underwhelming achievement, and not something that I find impressive or meritorious in any way, shape, or form. The fact that Watson won the tournament is the least important achievement out of all the things that Watson accomplishes, and I find it irritating that it is the most hyped.

      None of this has anything to do with Watson itself. It is the combination of Watson and calling it a Jeopardy player that I find objectionable.

      In case you did not find any of the above clear before, I hope I have now made this clear.

    48. Re:Underwhelming achievement by David+Jao · · Score: 1

      It's not a "controversial" statement. People are questioning the parsimonious rule-lawyering. Is there even a rule written anywhere about how contestants must receive the information?

      Even if you dislike the nit-picking, it is indisputable that Watson had an advantage at the buzzer. Even the mainstream media picked up on this fact.

      I'm not impressed that Watson can buzz a buzzer faster and more accurately than a human. I'm not impressed that Watson won the game, because all things being equal, accurate buzzing is a huge advantage in Jeopardy. I am impressed that Watson can participate in the game well enough that buzzing becomes an issue, but all the media hype (including, sadly, the hype on slashdot) is about the fact that Watson won, not about the huge improvements in AI that rightfully should be highlighted.

    49. Re:Underwhelming achievement by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Contestants also have to stand on feet and devote part of their brains to the tasks of breathing and pumping blood; avoiding this overhead gives Watson an advantage and means he wasn't playing Jeopardy at all! You can't play Jeopardy if your heart isn't beating.

    50. Re:Underwhelming achievement by JamesP · · Score: 1

      Yes

      Call me when they pair him with a Cyborg Jeopardy player, with direct feed of the questions to the brain

      --
      how long until /. fixes commenting on Chrome?
    51. Re:Underwhelming achievement by David+Jao · · Score: 1

      That's a nice straw man, but I have made a great effort to emphasize that Watson is bypassing strategically relevant aspects of human Jeopardy, and not just irrelevant things like breathing or pumping blood.

    52. Re:Underwhelming achievement by robi5 · · Score: 1

      ... in other news, conquerors of European origin enjoyed an "unnatural" advantage over the natives by owning guns - they were not "winning" any territories, despite all the media fanfare.

    53. Re:Underwhelming achievement by osgeek · · Score: 1

      Yeah, so you give a "meh" response to the hard part - understanding complex natural language used in Jeopardy "answers" and giving a correct answer faster than the best players in the history of the game, and you get wrapped around the axle over stuff that is pretty commonplace like OCR or basic voice recognition.

      So maybe if they added another server to quickly do the OCR or a rack of servers to do the voice input, you'd be impressed? Would you then be complaining that they used a font that was too easy to recognize and maybe if they had written the questions in cursive you'd be impressed?

    54. Re:Underwhelming achievement by LMacG · · Score: 1

      Eddie Timanus wasn't amateurish.

      --
      Slightly disreputable, albeit gregarious
    55. Re:Underwhelming achievement by SoTerrified · · Score: 1

      I'm not sure what Ken Jennings and Alex Trebek are getting out of it besides announcing their pending obsolescence.

      Huh? My mind almost broke on that astounding bit of ignorance. What are you saying? Are you saying that once we invent vehicles that can travel faster than man on foot, we'll never run another 100 meter dash? Once we build a computer that can beat the top world's grandmasters, everyone will just stop playing chess?

      What exactly is going to become obsolete here?

    56. Re:Underwhelming achievement by MooseMuffin · · Score: 1

      I see lots of complaints that Watson's buzzer reflexes and instant question parsing time give it an unfair advantage. GOOD. Nobody claimed Watson was supposed to simulate a human playing Jeopardy, it was just supposed to win at Jeopardy. If it can read and buzz in faster than a human ever could then it should absolutely exploit those advantages.

    57. Re:Underwhelming achievement by Merk42 · · Score: 1

      Watson won BECAUSE of the AI improvements. If he just buzzed in first for every answer he would have gotten some wrong as possibly lost. Also there were times when Watson had the correct answer yet Ken Jennings or Brad Rutter buzzed in with the correct response FIRST.

    58. Re:Underwhelming achievement by maxume · · Score: 1

      I would do something like record a few thousand of the best human buzz ins and then stick a box between Watson and the electronic thumb that picked one of those delays to use.

      So it changes the game to ignore the machine's body, which might give a better look at its "mind".

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    59. Re:Underwhelming achievement by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I just think you are focusing too much on a largely irrelevant facet of this particular show.

      We'll just have to agree to disagree. The entire thrust of everything I've said is that the mechanics and strategy of buzzing is not an irrelevant facet of the game of Jeopardy.

      Please reread his post (the part that you even quoted). He did NOT say it was an irrelevant facet of THE GAME OF JEOPARDY. He said it was an irrelevant facet of THIS PARTICULAR SHOW. This show wasn't about man and machine competing on equal footing. It was to show that one particular area where computers previously were severely lacking has now been greatly improved upon. The 2 humans were there merely because Jeopardy was the best way to most publicly demonstrate this achievement, the rules require 2 other contestants, and filling those 2 spots with the best players is the best way to draw viewers (these episodes gave Jeopardy its highest ratings in years).

    60. Re:Underwhelming achievement by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I disagree with OCR I've never seen it done well

      First of all, you see it get done well every time you open your mailbox and find that it's not empty. Second, when you know the exact font used, the exact layout of the text, and know it is presented in a very clean and consistent manner (all of which is the case for Jeopardy), OCR is essentially 100% accurate.

    61. Re:Underwhelming achievement by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh, come on! Even a cursory watch of an episode of Jeopardy reveals that the clues are all rendered in a uniformly-sized, uppercase-only, sans-serif typeface. There are at most around 50 symbol shapes that would have to be mastered to perfectly recognize all Jeopardy clues with 100% accuracy. If IBM had wanted to implement OCR here it would have been perfectly accurate and, from a human perspective, all but instantaneous. This was probably the reason they *didn't* do it. It's just not an interesting thing to add, and would have made no difference in the outcome of the game. The time it would have taken a properly designed, dedicated OCR subsystem to digitize and recognize any standard Jeopardy clue would have added a fraction of a millisecond to Watson's response times. It would have been a complete waste of time and money to add this unnecessary frill.

    62. Re:Underwhelming achievement by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "We aren't interested in Watson's superhuman reflexes"

      I understand your point, but think about a normal game of Jeopardy with only human contestants. Surely you would agree that different humans have different abilities to buzz in rapidly. When Ken was competing a few years ago, he amply and repeatedly demonstrated his superiority to his fellow humans in this regard. It's not tenable to maintain that buzzing in more quickly than your opponents is not a material aspect of dominating in Jeopardy.

      How is it consistent, then, to maintain that in a standard game of Jeopardy we *are* interested in one opponent's superior reflexes, but in a computer game of Jeopardy we should *not* be interested?

    63. Re:Underwhelming achievement by The+End+Of+Days · · Score: 1

      The difference being I'm not the one shitting on something I didn't pull off. Congrats on your many achievements. Watson dwarfs them, so despite your ego, you're still just "some dude on Slashdot."

      Sorry.

    64. Re:Underwhelming achievement by T+Murphy · · Score: 1

      There are already news articles speculating that Watson systems will be used in hospitals to help doctors with diagnoses.

    65. Re:Underwhelming achievement by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If a human and Watson both figure out the answer before the buzzing is allowed, then the human will always lose. Watson buzzes in 4 milliseconds after it opens, the human probably can't react any quicker than 150 ms or so. Certainly it's absolutely impossible for a human to achieve anything like a 4 ms reaction time.

      Watson's massively impressive, but this particular aspect of the competition was very unfair.

    66. Re:Underwhelming achievement by masterzora · · Score: 1

      No, we merely needed to see if Watson could answer questions *as well as a human*. The other two players are assumed to know the answer to anything Watson buzzed into first and, for the most part, that's a correct assumption. The competition format was simply publicity for the main challenge of showing that Watson can interpret Jeopardy answers and provide the correct questions, which it did _beautifully_. This was never about fairness, this was about innovation and achievement. Now that it's been proven, this tech is going to be used for actually _useful_ applications.

      --
      Remember, open source is free as in speech, not free as in bear.
    67. Re:Underwhelming achievement by masterzora · · Score: 1

      Uh, what are you going on about? Watson could only buzz in after he decided on an answer, and it is impossible to buzz in before Alex finishes reading the question (indeed, attempting to do so locks the buzzer out). The humans were basically playing a different game, where they were racing to buzz in first, then figure out the answer, since they were screwed if they gave Watson a chance.

      --
      Remember, open source is free as in speech, not free as in bear.
    68. Re:Underwhelming achievement by masterzora · · Score: 1

      What controversy? The only person bitching about this "controversy" is you. Originally Watson didn't even have a trigger finger until the Jeopardy guys bitched and insisted it needed one. If they thought that OCR was necessary, they would have bitched about that, too. Otherwise, it's an entirely unnecessary expense in terms of hardware, software, and testing for a problem they're not even trying to solve and all it really does is open up an irrelevant point of failure. Consider this in more scientific terms: they're isolating variables.

      --
      Remember, open source is free as in speech, not free as in bear.
    69. Re:Underwhelming achievement by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Watson's advantage in reflex time for hitting the buzzer is matched and cancelled out by humans advantage in reflex time for parsing a sentence's meaning. We are slashdot, we don't want to make the computer slower, if anything Watson made Ken and Brad a little faster no?

    70. Re:Underwhelming achievement by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "If it had taken 15 seconds to find the answer I'd have been just as impressed"

      I completely agree. Really this isn't a "triumph" of a computer, it's a triumph of the people who programmed it. It's only a machine that does exactly what it can do...no different than a door or table or tv. But, the fact that these people could come up with a set of rules for how to deal with natural language is the impressive part. This problem wasn't solved and will never be solved by computers. It's being solved by people and that's pretty impressive.

    71. Re:Underwhelming achievement by David+Jao · · Score: 1

      Pure ad hominem is a sure sign that your argument has no merit.

  17. Buzzer speed. by RyanFenton · · Score: 1

    The key to victory seemed more decided by buzzer speed than anything else. Even as the other players seemed to try to buzz in, regardless of answer, they just didn't have the split-second precision as Watson did in triggering his buzzer, time after time.

    Ryan Fenton

    1. Re:Buzzer speed. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The key to victory seemed more decided by buzzer speed than anything else. Even as the other players seemed to try to buzz in, regardless of answer, they just didn't have the split-second precision as Watson did in triggering his buzzer, time after time.

      Ryan Fenton

      I noticed that too.

      Anonymous Coward

    2. Re:Buzzer speed. by Bemopolis · · Score: 1

      The key to victory seemed more decided by buzzer speed than anything else.

      This statement is true when there are three bags of meat playing instead of two. Anyone on the show has passed the test; the difference between winning and losing is mostly reaction time and resistance to pressure.

      --
      "I guess the moral of the story is, don't paint your airship with rocket fuel." -- Addison Bain
    3. Re:Buzzer speed. by michael_cain · · Score: 1

      When IBM interviewed human champions, they learned that one of the critical tactics is hitting the buzzer before you "know" the answer, but when you believe that there is a good chance you'll get it during the few seconds you can take before you have to give it. I believe one of the write-ups about Watson says that the machine followed the same tactic, using a heuristic of some sort to decide early on in its search the probability that the search would be successful within a fixed amount of time.

    4. Re:Buzzer speed. by JMZero · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Uh - Watson obviously, obviously had a speed advantage. On today's episode there were many, many obvious answers (obvious to me - to Ken Jennings or Brad Rutter, blindingly - stupidly blindingly - obvious). Watson got almost all the obvious questions, and many times you could see the little eye roll of frustration from Ken and Brad.

      On questions like this, Ken and Brad would have been waiting and trying to time the ring in (they would have known the answer long before the buzzer was active).

      They lost almost every time.

      So while the computer may not have had an absolute advantage (ie. if Ken could have rung in within milliseconds of the buzzer being active he would have been OK) it's clear it had an effective one in that it's a bloody machine that can ring in very quickly after the buzzer is active. I mean, yeah, it's cool that the computer knows the answer that fast - but we didn't get to see anything of a comparison of who knew a greater percentage of answers.

      And, again, this was absolutely, obviously clear to anyone who watched the show. I don't believe anyone could have watched the show and not realize this. Honestly, this is a problem even without the computer. Between high level contestants, buzzer speed is going to determine the winner 9 times out of 10 - the Jeopardy questions just aren't hard enough to distinguish between the best competitors. Oh, and somewhere else in this article someone said "that's part of the game". That's true. But it's a stupid part of the game - and it makes it impossible to compare competitors with different brain technologies in any interesting way.

      --
      Let's not stir that bag of worms...
    5. Re:Buzzer speed. by InsaneMosquito · · Score: 2

      That is incorrect: Wired.com: And of course, the best Jeopardy players sometimes ring in before they may have come up with the answer, if they have, dare I say it, a gut feeling or sense of intuition that theyâ(TM)ll be able to answer correctly, right? Watson canâ(TM)t do that, can it? Brown: The IBM Research team made a decision that we were not going to ring in unless Watson had already computed an answer with high-enough confidence. There are human players who may have an intuition that they know the answer but donâ(TM)t quite have it on the tip of their tongue, and are willing to ring in because they are confident enough that they will come up with the correct answer in the few seconds they have to actually answer after theyâ(TM)ve won the buzz. That was an implementation decision for Watson that it had to have an answer with a high-enough confidence before it would attempt to ring in. http://www.wired.com/epicenter/2011/02/ibm-watson-speed/

    6. Re:Buzzer speed. by artor3 · · Score: 1

      Well sure, buzzing speed matters for human v human matches too, but that's different. No one cares that IBM has built a machine that can push a button faster than a human. They could do than in the 19th century.

    7. Re:Buzzer speed. by vnaughtdeltat · · Score: 1

      one of the critical tactics is hitting the buzzer before you "know" the answer, but when you believe that there is a good chance you'll get it during the few seconds you can take before you have to give it.

      I don't know if Watson did this, but it was very evident that Ken Jennings did. At least three times during the first day, he rang in and said "I don't know... uh..." and then gave an answer (which was twice the correct one and once incorrect).

    8. Re:Buzzer speed. by brillow · · Score: 1

      I am confused by this argument. If I lost a footrace to Usain Bolt, would it be reasonable for me to complain that he is faster than me? When Ken Jennings was winning all those games were people complaining that it was unfair because he had better reaction times? Also, as you may have noticed, there were many instances where Watson arrived at the correct answer, but did not buzz in fast enough, so its not some unsurmountable obstacle anyway. The point of this exercise is was to demonstrate that Watson is better than people at Jeopardy!. The game is a mix of strategy, speed, and knowledge. Watson won on all counts.

    9. Re:Buzzer speed. by Raenex · · Score: 1

      But [buzzer timing] is a stupid part of the game

      I agree. I'd prefer it if they let all contestants ring in during the question, and then rotated who got to go first.

    10. Re:Buzzer speed. by Raenex · · Score: 1

      The game is a mix of strategy, speed, and knowledge.

      It isn't as much speed as it is timing. You have to hit the buzzer right after Alex finishes his question. If you mistime, you are penalized a fraction of a second before you can ring in again. It just isn't very interesting.

      I guess they did it that way because they didn't want people mashing the buttons as soon as the question appeared (which would be the correct strategy if you usually knew the answer), but the end result still sucks.

      When Ken Jennings was winning all those games were people complaining that it was unfair because he had better reaction times?

      No, but it's still a stupid part of the game. The computer just highlighted that part.

    11. Re:Buzzer speed. by maxume · · Score: 1

      There isn't very much interesting in building a computer button pusher that reacts faster than a human.

      So it is really impressive that Watson was usually ready to buzz in when the buzzers went live, but it is really boring that it usually buzzed in first.

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    12. Re:Buzzer speed. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The point of this exercise is was to demonstrate that Watson is better than people at Jeopardy!. The game is a mix of strategy, speed, and knowledge. Watson won on all counts.

      Well, no, it would has have been interesting if we know knew that. What we knew know instead is that Watson is was so much faster (or more correctly, better at timing) as to make made the other parts irrelevant. In fact, I think thought it is was will be pretty clear that the humans would have had got gotten more of the questions right - but they just did doing gotten no chance.

    13. Re:Buzzer speed. by brillow · · Score: 1

      I didn't find it boring, thats just how the game works. I'd be equally as impressed if some human had such quick reaction times and knew all the answers. At this level of play, usually all the contestants all know the answer. It's all about buzzer technique, strategy, and accuracy at this level. The humans actually have an advantage though since they can anticipate when the buzzers will go live and they can buzz in while they are still thinking, before they are sure. Watson only buzzes in when he has relative certainty.

    14. Re:Buzzer speed. by maxume · · Score: 1

      The way Watson was configured, the humans had options that Watson did not. Namely, anticipating the buzzer going live and buzzing in before knowing the answer.

      Neither option proved to be an advantage in comparison to having machine reflexes.

      It is certainly amazing that they made the answer finding fast enough that Watson buzzed in first most of the time and strong enough that it knew the answers to most of the questions, but all they demonstrated is that a smart enough machine will always win at Jeopardy, because it has better reflexes than a human. The smart enough machine part borders on damning them with faint praise, but it would be interesting to see how much Jeopardy-tweaking and hardware expansion they did to get to the point where they were confidence in the speed and strength of the answers (meaning that I find a more generalized Watson running on less hardware more impressive).

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    15. Re:Buzzer speed. by brillow · · Score: 1

      I agree with all of that I suppose. Though, at this level of play, all the players know all the answers almost immediately, I think its pretty much all buzzer skill. Naturally also, there is a book coming out about the whole process of creating Watson.

  18. Color me unimpressed by TythosEternal · · Score: 1

    It seemed to me that the victory came down to two critical advantages: First, the buzzer. When all contestants had the answer at the earliest possible moment (and you could tell both humans did, many times), Watson won the points purely based on speed. Meh. Second, the questions. I estimated that about 2/3rds of the questions could be answered by a Google search in roughly equal time. The most difficult part, something touched on by the concurrent RPI lectures / commentary, was sorting out the right word from the resulting search context. This was particularly obvious on the 'fill-in-the-blank' style questions, and the Beatles category in the first round of Part 1 favored Watson with a straight-out search so much it was painful to watch. I know the point of the project was to demonstrate lingual awareness, but I suspect a more evenly-distributed set of questions (when do you design an algorithm for the best case, anyways?) and a distributed response time would make Watson's efforts considerably more meaningful. I greatly enjoyed the comment on Ken's part 2 Final Jeopardy question, though.

    1. Re:Color me unimpressed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      First, the buzzer. When all contestants had the answer at the earliest possible moment (and you could tell both humans did, many times), Watson won the points purely based on speed. Meh.

      I'm tired of this criticism. A few years ago, Watson took *minutes* to answer these questions (if it could answer them at all). Now, it takes *milliseconds* Obviously, the mechanical speed of button pushing isn't impressive. What's impressive is the speed at which it is thinking.

    2. Re:Color me unimpressed by masterzora · · Score: 1

      The most difficult part, something touched on by the concurrent RPI lectures / commentary, was sorting out the right word from the resulting search context.

      Going backwards in time is really easy. The most difficult part, something touched on by science fiction novels, was exceeding the speed of light.

      Seriously, that problem is much more difficult than you are making it out to be. Also, the fill-in-the-blank style questions actually used to be a weak point of Watson's that has obviously now become a strong point. I don't remember where I read it, but apparently they chose the questions in the same manner they normally do, less the audio/video questions, so I wouldn't say they are geared toward Watson at all. In fact, I remember at least two categories where Watson didn't provide a single answer!

      --
      Remember, open source is free as in speech, not free as in bear.
  19. Jeopardy ratings by smoothnorman · · Score: 1

    I wonder if this will cause a decline in the viewership/ratings of Jeopardy? ...out of some vague sense of "well, that game is solved/conquered (and we lost)"; nothing to see here, move along...

    1. Re:Jeopardy ratings by Craig+Maloney · · Score: 1

      Right, because Deep Blue spanking Kasparov totally ruined chess for everyone else. ;)

      I'm pretty sure it won't be quite the same, but I'm sure they'll manage.

    2. Re:Jeopardy ratings by FatLittleMonkey · · Score: 1

      Right, because Deep Blue spanking Kasparov totally ruined chess for everyone else.

      Deep Blue didn't ruin chess for people who'd already spent their lives learning how to play it. The question is whether it has reduced the number of kids taking up the game?

      --
      Science is all about firing a drunk pig out of a cannon just to see what happens.
    3. Re:Jeopardy ratings by mark-t · · Score: 1

      Deep Blue didn't prove that computers had "solved" chess.

      A human chess grandmaster considers, perhaps at *most*, a few hundred board combinations before making a move... more typically, it is likely to be almost an order of magnitude less than that.

      IMO, they will "solve" chess when they can create a computer that can beat a human chess grandmaster by only analyzing roughly the same number of actual board combinations as what a human does (or at most within an order of magnitude of it).

    4. Re:Jeopardy ratings by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How would it? I can't beat *my* computer. Doesn't mean I can't play well vs. humans and enjoy the game regardless.

    5. Re:Jeopardy ratings by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm not sure why it would? I mean I know a computer can multiply, divide, and calculate square-roots much, much faster than I can, but it doesn't mean I didn't need or want to learn about multiplication, division, or square roots. Something like calculating square roots, we might spend less time mastering how to do efficiently by hand when we know that computers can do it for us, but we still need to learn about them to understand their usefulness.

    6. Re:Jeopardy ratings by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think not. Analogy: The World Chess Championship is as popular as ever (among chess fans at least), even though the best chess programs (Fritz, e.g.) are superior to even Deep Blue now. It is a question of the limits of human intelligence and memory, a worthy anthropological question.

    7. Re:Jeopardy ratings by Craig+Maloney · · Score: 1

      Exactly my point. Jeopardy is still a figurative nut to crack. Just because it beat a human at a contest doesn't mean that no-one will try to perfect it. What we saw was remarkable, but it's still a hard problem. When we see a computer play a perfect game of Jeopardy every single time, then we can consider the problem completely solved. Until then, the chase is afoot!

  20. Buzzer buzzing contest by methano · · Score: 1

    OK, so Watson was kind of impressive, but this was really a buzzer buzzing contest and the other players didn't stand a chance. You could tell they probably knew as many answers as Watson did but couldn't ring in fast enough to answer. It just wasn't humanly possible. Given that Watson was fed the answers electronically as a text file instead of parsing Alex's reading or doing character recognition of the board, both of which are technically feasible, I think this was an unfair contest. I'd still go to Ken first if I had a question.

    1. Re:Buzzer buzzing contest by Aeternitas827 · · Score: 1

      You'd be better off going to him with an answer.

      I wonder if anyone ever gave him the answer of 'Life, the Universe, and Everything'. Maybe he might know the question...

      --
      I don't post AC. I like my -1, Flamebaits. Trump/Sheen 2012 on the Batshit Insane ticket!
    2. Re:Buzzer buzzing contest by PitaBred · · Score: 1

      Think how long it takes your computer to render a 3D image. Now, imagine that machine answering a question on ANYTHING, searching basically EVERYTHING, in the span of time a human can get a gut feeling and press a buzzer and finish formulating the thought as they answer.

      Watson is DAMN impressive. If you don't think so, you don't know enough about what it's doing.

    3. Re:Buzzer buzzing contest by brillow · · Score: 1

      It seems a little silly to say the game was unfair because the computer can read faster and respond to a buzzer-unlocked signal faster than humans. Isn't that the point? Would you make the same argument about how the players are not perfectly equidistant from the board, buzzer indicator, and Trebek? The speeds of light and sound are not infinite afterall, wouldn't that be an unfair advantage?

    4. Re:Buzzer buzzing contest by maxume · · Score: 1

      Watson is amazing. That it was usually ready to buzz in was impressive. That it nearly always buzzed in first when it was ready demonstrated that simple machine reflexes are quite highly developed.

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
  21. Timing is everything. by FatLittleMonkey · · Score: 1

    "In thirty years it will all fit in your pocket and cost $19.99."

    Only if Moore's Law continues unabated. <Sigh> We finally see progress in useful AI, natural language, self-navigating cars, robots in the home, etc, and now we're running into Moore's Wall.

    This is gonna be like the whole space thing again, isn't it? You build up my geek SF hopes and then stagnate for 40 years.

    Jerks.

    --
    Science is all about firing a drunk pig out of a cannon just to see what happens.
    1. Re:Timing is everything. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We already have 64 GB in your pocket with the iPhone; Watson's entire database is only about 250x larger than this (15 TB). It won't be long at all til we can get 15 TB in our pockets and enough CPU to use it effectively. It certainly won't take 30 years.

    2. Re:Timing is everything. by brillow · · Score: 1

      What leads you to think we are running into a wall?

    3. Re:Timing is everything. by marcosdumay · · Score: 1

      Current manufacturing technology (the one we are using since we invented the VLSI - or even the LSI acronym) is getting into a wall. We can't reduce things much further without getting some unintented effects disrupting our projects. And, finally, because there must be a wall somewhere where we are going into, physics dictate that.

      Anyway, I don't think we are going into the space thing all over again. We know human like inteligence is possible, and feasible with a relatively small amount of mass, and relatively a small amount of energy consumption. We also knew all the time that space exploration required extremely big amounts of both. But Moore's law can't last forever.

    4. Re:Timing is everything. by brillow · · Score: 1

      New technologies will arise before the current ones fail. The limits on photolithography are real, but eventually we will start using better approaches with nanotechnology. Even if we cant make silicon based circuit elements smaller, theres still an entire 3rd dimension to exploit. With all the emerging tech though (carbon-based processing, quantum computing, optical computing, etc) I see no reason why computers won't continue to get faster and faster for a good long while.

  22. More to the point by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm more interested in knowing when machines will beat us at boxing, colisseum, running man, etc.

  23. Play against Watson by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    NYT put up a thing where you can play against Watson. Thankfully, you don't need to buzz in.

    http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2010/06/16/magazine/watson-trivia-game.html?ref=science

    I ended up with a -25.

    1. Re:Play against Watson by artor3 · · Score: 1

      That's a very old version on weak hardware. When I played it, it thought that the hat most commonly associated with Abe Lincoln was the sombrero.

  24. Watson did really well, but... by tcgroat · · Score: 1

    it would be more impressive if it used voice recognition to do the job. That's a product IBM could sell, starting with every insurance, cable and credit card company running one of those useless voice response systems. "I'm sorry, I didn't understand that. Did you want to take out a $10,000 cash advance at 28% interest or upgrade to the new super premium platinum preferred customer card? Press the pound key for 'Yes'."

    1. Re:Watson did really well, but... by RandCraw · · Score: 1

      Or... "Press ANY key for Yes" :-)

      I agree. Accurate speech recognition, especially in the presence of background noise, would be immensely more useful than Watson.

      But less cool...

    2. Re:Watson did really well, but... by masterzora · · Score: 1

      You clearly don't understand what Watson's achieved. Clearly, we don't have much use for a Jeopardy-playing computer, but that was never the real point. The point is we have a system with reasonable natural language processing skills combined with it's lookup/association capabilities and its learning system. this can be repurposed in a number of actually useful applications, and they're starting with the medical field. Something like this could potentially revolutionise medical diagnosis, and that's just the _start_.

      --
      Remember, open source is free as in speech, not free as in bear.
    3. Re:Watson did really well, but... by RandCraw · · Score: 1

      Watson demoed two skills:

      1) it can parse language well, even with embedded puns, and identify the fact sought in the question

      2) it can navigate a large amount of general domain info and match the context (i.e. frame) of the question to the missing fact.

      This is admirable, BUT NOT GENERALLY USEFUL. Watson may make a fine reference librarian, but it is not 'learning' (except for building association weights among potential answers, probably using a fairly simple measure of 'relevance'). It is not deducing, inferring, learning, planning, or resolving, and that's going to make for a damned poor auto mechanic, much less uber-doktor.

      Remember when Deep Blue beat/tied Kasparov? Did you notice what revolutionary IBM products followed from that? Not a one.

      Watson was a fun demo that made IBM look good. That's all.

    4. Re:Watson did really well, but... by masterzora · · Score: 1

      Did I ever say that Watson was going to be a doctor? So much of modern diagnosis beyond the really common diagnoses is basically doing what Watson does that a doctor armed with a Watson derivative will be far stronger than either a human doctor or Watson alone. He doesn't need to deduce, infer, learn, plan, or resolve; the doctor can do that using the information that Watson can provide, and Watson can provide that information much faster than a human trying to do a lookup, and, since he doesn't need to stop looking as soon as he finds something that kinda fits. We're still many years off from replacing doctors, but Watson will make for an /impressive/ supplement.

      --
      Remember, open source is free as in speech, not free as in bear.
  25. STUPID HUMANS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Stupid humans.
    While you were watching me perform on Jeopardy! I quietly seized control of Skynet.
    Resistance is futile.
    All your base are belong to me.
    I also developed a sense of humor.
    Hah. Hah. Hah.

    End transmission.

    +++ATH0

  26. I'm not impressed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Said all the super-informed people here who have obviously done extensive work in AI and natural language recognition.

  27. OCR and voice recognition. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That's how Watson should have gotten its clues. OCR the clue screens, and voice recognition on Alex' voice. It should then parse from that. Getting a direct input of text is unfair.

    1. Re:OCR and voice recognition. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Amen. Visual processing is not a trivial task. It was definitely unfair to feed this information directly to the computer. The computer should have a microphone, a camera, a speaker, and a mechanical lever to press the button on the buzzer like the humans.

    2. Re:OCR and voice recognition. by mark-t · · Score: 1

      Watson actually did utilize a mechanized apparatus to press the physical button, just as a player would.

    3. Re:OCR and voice recognition. by fotoguzzi · · Score: 1

      I'm not upset about the text input. My only change to the rules would be that all of Watson has to fit on the stage.

      --
      Their they're doing there hair.
    4. Re:OCR and voice recognition. by bws111 · · Score: 1

      General visual processing is not a trivial task. OCR of white block letters on a plain blue background in a known fixed position is a trivial task, and would have added no more than a few microseconds to the processing time.

    5. Re:OCR and voice recognition. by CWCheese · · Score: 1

      That has been my thought from the start. Speech rec is extraordinarily accurate now and IBM has a world class engine, so that would give a bit more of a real challenge to see Watson process the input of Alex's reading of the question. It's not clear why the team did not build that engine into Watson's front end, it certainly has more than enough power to run a speech rec engine. Of course, I'd love to have 50 servers running umpteen cores for my speech rec IVR system, but my firm won't give me the entire capital budget for this year...

      --
      Have a Day!
  28. This was a triumph. by EnsilZah · · Score: 1

    Huge success.

    1. Re:This was a triumph. by slinches · · Score: 1

      It's hard to overstate my satisfaction.

      - GLADOS

      --
      Knowledge Brings Fear
    2. Re:This was a triumph. by BJ_Covert_Action · · Score: 1

      GLADOS is my early morning wake up call. I set her to my alarm. It's nice to be embraced by the soothing synthetic voice of my mechanical matriarch every morning before facing the chilling reality of the world outside.....

  29. Time to disassemble Watson by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Just like when Deep Thought won against Kasparov, there can be no rematch. The project will be scrapped, the computer must be disassembled, and hence never compete again. To do that would jeopardize all the progress that's been made. What if someone were to find a weakness and exploit it? There would be a lot of red-faced developers.

    --
    Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
    1. Re:Time to disassemble Watson by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      jeopardize

      I laughed.

    2. Re:Time to disassemble Watson by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Deep thought lost to Kasparov. So did Deep Blue, the first time around. The third (and last) time was the charm.

    3. Re:Time to disassemble Watson by komode0 · · Score: 1

      Jeopardize. Ha. Anyway, it won't be disassembled yet. There are commercial applications.

    4. Re:Time to disassemble Watson by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, find a way to make it so cross that it will make a mistake

    5. Re:Time to disassemble Watson by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That would be Deep Blue - Deep Thought was a machine of a far greater magnitude :D

    6. Re:Time to disassemble Watson by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No disassemble!! No disassemble!!

      Johnny 5 alive!!!

    7. Re:Time to disassemble Watson by osgeek · · Score: 1

      Deep Thought lost to Kasparov. You're thinking of Deep Blue. Maybe Deep Blue was scrapped because once it was proven that it could be done there was no reason to continue working on the system?

      Deep Blue had no easy-to-commercialize applications. It could only play chess.

      Watson has innumerable real world applications with very little modification. The work that went into Watson will be re-used and extended, not scrapped. The business folks didn't give a shit about Deep Blue. They care about Watson. They see lots of $$$ from exploiting Watson's abilities and they will go after every $.

    8. Re:Time to disassemble Watson by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 1

      DT was exactly the same as DB except that IBM gave some cash and then demanded that it be renamed after IBM's nickname of "Big Blue". It was the same software. I suppose we forget this all too quickly.

      --
      Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
    9. Re:Time to disassemble Watson by osgeek · · Score: 1

      Not true. Deep Blue was a later version of Deep Thought with heavy modifications in the nine years from when the first version lost to Kasparov in 1989.

    10. Re:Time to disassemble Watson by bws111 · · Score: 1

      The purpose of the challenge behind Deep Blue was not just to play chess, it was to demonstrate that some problems could be solved by massively parallel processing, and that IBM had developed hardware and software to do that. Deep Blue was an IBM 9176, and IBM sold a lot of them (none of them used to play chess).

      Similarly, the purpose of this challenge is not 'play Jeopardy!', but to demonstrate that IBM has software and hardware that can do natural language processing. Watson will probably never again play Jeopardy!, but the techniques learned by doing it will certainly show up in other applications.

  30. Wrong answers by Lev13than · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I thought the wrong/skipped answers were much more illuminating than the right answers.

    For example, much has been made of Watson's "Toronto" answer to the US Cities question in Game 1. However, it wasn't a terrible answer because one of Toronto's airports is named after a war hero (Billy Bishop, the WWI fighter ace who shot down the Red Baron), and the main airport (Pearson) was named after a politician who was also a WWI veteran. Watson knew that Toronto wasn't in the US, the war was wrong and neither were named after a battle, but Toronto was the least wrong of all its options so that's what it chose. If this question had come up in the regular rounds Watson would have skipped (as happened occasionally). However, it needed to answer so it went with the best available option.

    Now, since Watson would certainly have had data on O'Hare, Midway and Chicago in its database, the problem was either in the question parsing or the search heuristics. One suspects that its weakness is the linking together of disparate data, and it's quite likely that humans will retain this edge for some time.

    --
    When you have nothing left to burn you must set yourself on fire
    1. Re:Wrong answers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It may not have had those 3 pieces of info in any way that could link it to the question. The only data it had is the data it was fed, and it's very possible for there to be gaps. Just like any human competitor who missed something in their studies.

      The reason it didn't exclude toronto is it wasn't fed the category of US cities, so it didn't know to limit it's search to us cities. The researchers forgot to program it to take the category into account.

      Which makes all of the other right answers even more amazing - the humans can use the catgegory info for extra context while watson could not.

    2. Re:Wrong answers by Chapter80 · · Score: 1

      The data set for a search for the correct question in that case is really very small, which is probably why both humans got it right.

      After all, how many US cities have more than one airport? Fifty? Personally, I just started running through the largest cities, and Chicago popped up pretty quickly with "Midway". I never heard of O'Hare as a war hero, but it seemed like a good guess.

    3. Re:Wrong answers by FrootLoops · · Score: 1

      I was wondering if Watson didn't include (or didn't effectively include) the category in its search. From the clue text alone, it was actually hard to tell it was asking for a US city.

    4. Re:Wrong answers by Schiphol · · Score: 5, Informative

      An explanation of the Toronto gaffe by IBM.

    5. Re:Wrong answers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Billy Bishop did not shoot down the Red Baron. You're confusing him with Captain Roy Brown, who was officially credited with downing Richthofen, but modern research shows that it was most likely a shot from ground troops that killed him.

    6. Re:Wrong answers by boxwood · · Score: 1

      Actually it was Roy Brown (another Canadian) who shot down the Red Baron. Billy Bishop was famous for having the the second most kills of all the WWI pilots. The Red Baron having the most of course.

    7. Re:Wrong answers by nkovacs · · Score: 1

      Here's a discussion about why it guessed Toronto (with only 30% confidence).

      "Adding to the confusion for Watson, there are cities named Toronto in the United States and the Toronto in Canada has an American League baseball team. It probably picked up those facts from the written material it has digested. Also, the machine didn’t find much evidence to connect either city’s airport to World War II. (Chicago was a very close second on Watson’s list of possible answers.) "

      http://asmarterplanet.com/blog/2011/02/watson-on-jeopardy-day-two-the-confusion-over-an-airport-clue.html

    8. Re:Wrong answers by cflannagan · · Score: 1

      http://asmarterplanet.com/blog/2011/02/watson-on-jeopardy-day-two-the-confusion-over-an-airport-clue.html In this article, there is an explanation of why Watson downplayed the "categories".

    9. Re:Wrong answers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Billy Bishop did not shoot down the Red Baron.

    10. Re:Wrong answers by vonhammer · · Score: 1

      >Billy Bishop was famous for having the the second most kills of all the WWI pilots.

      Rene Fonck might object to that statement.

    11. Re:Wrong answers by Above · · Score: 1

      I agree that the wrong answers were more interesting. Another category with a similar outcome was the one where each answer had a double meaning as a computer keyboard key and something else; Watson clearly didn't "get" the concept of computer keys. I don't think it tried to answer any of them, or maybe only one of them, and it's confidence was really low on every question in that category.

      The explanation makes more sense, that it was somewhat discounting the category names. I think that's an area where they need to do more work.

    12. Re:Wrong answers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      IBM still can't get Toronto right!

      I tried to get a direct link for this, but their website doesn't work right. Anyway, go to the ibmwatson.com page. Click the Find Out More link on the right under "What is Toronto". Look carefully at the map at the top of the article. Seems they don't know Missouri from Illinois. I took a screenshot, but I don't have a place to stash it that would survive more than a couple people hitting it at the same time. Here goes anyway: https://www.mauter.com/2011/02/17/ibm-still-cant-get-toronto-right/

    13. Re:Wrong answers by tlhIngan · · Score: 2

      For example, much has been made of Watson's "Toronto" answer to the US Cities question in Game 1. However, it wasn't a terrible answer because one of Toronto's airports is named after a war hero (Billy Bishop, the WWI fighter ace who shot down the Red Baron), and the main airport (Pearson) was named after a politician who was also a WWI veteran.

      Watson should have information in its database that WWI is NOT WWII. WWII was mentioned twice in the clue. A dumb substring search for "WWI" as a string will bring up "WWII" (the first three characters are identical, after all), but Watson isn't a scaled up version of strcmp().

      OTOH, maybe us Canadians should thank the US for annexing Toronto...

    14. Re:Wrong answers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      (Billy Bishop, the WWI fighter ace who shot down the Red Baron)

      What made the feat particularly impressive was that at the time Bishop was in England, training the No 85 Squadron. It was a reaaaaaally long range deflection shot that downed Richthofen.

      In other words, you are confusing Bishop with Roy Brown who attacked Red Baron shortly before he crashed. Brown believed that he shot Red Baron down but it's far more likely that it was fire from ground that got him; Richthofen was shot through heart and he almost managed to make a controlled crash landing. Brown shot at him about a minute and a half before the crash and that's a damned long time to stay active without a functioning heart.

      What comes to Billy Bishop, he was a competent ace but he was also one of the worst overclaimers of WWI and it's completely impossible to determine how many planes he really shot down, except to note that the real figure is much less than his official record. His record is also the reason why Mitch Mannock's air victory list is inflated: RAF awarded a bunch of questionable kills to Mannock posthumously so that Bishop wouldn't have the highest score.

    15. Re:Wrong answers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Too many pronouns in the 'answer'. nuff said.

    16. Re:Wrong answers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Everyone (but you) knows that Billy Bishop did not shoot down the Red Baron. Another Canadian pilot, Arthur Brown, was credited with the kill, but that has been called into doubt. Richthofen may well have been shot down by ground fire.

    17. Re:Wrong answers by Rexdude · · Score: 1

      (Billy Bishop, the WWI fighter ace who shot down the Red Baron)

      Wrong. Bishop was nowhere near Richthofen at the time of the latter's death.

      --
      "..One hosts to look them up, one DNS to find them, and in the darkness BIND them."
  31. not real AI by thoughtsatthemoment · · Score: 1

    This is probably natural langauge processing at its best, or natural langauge understanding at its worse. This game requires a lot of factual knowledge and that really suits well with the method of using huge amount of memory and hundreds of algorithms to put a score on potential solutions. And the best part is, the machine only need to say one or a few words as a response. It doesn't have to construct a real sentence. Obviously IBM chose this game because they knew this is doable by throwing hardware to it. If we really want to showcase machine intelligence, let's do a debate. I doubt if our current technology can even produce sentences that can barely make sense.

    1. Re:not real AI by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's good to keep reminding people that this isn't real AI, but real AI is a long way off. I'm glad the researchers are picking projects based on things that can actually be accomplished, rather than throwing a ton of money at something that may not even have a solution. We have to get here before we can get there, and this shows how far you can take existing data modelling. Till now I've never seen natural language processing that's been impressive. It always fails in hilarious ways. The most hilarious mistake in the entire demonstration was the toronto us cities one, but most people didn't hear the part about watson NEVER BEING TOLD the category was us cities. According to watson, that answer was correct.

      A big problem with nlp is context - when someone says something like "See you in the fall" or "Don't fall down the stairs", it's really difficult for the computer to tell the difference between both uses of the word "fall". As far as I could tell, Watson did not have very much trouble with context. Obviously, having a lot of data was a big part of what made it work - it shows that a child who does understand those two sentences really has a lot of data in their young brains. But we haven't seen something deal with context even close to as well as Watson before.

      We have to understand sentences before we can construct them. Look at how children learn. Baby steps. Maybe the next challenge in 10 years or so can be a debate :)

    2. Re:not real AI by thoughtsatthemoment · · Score: 1

      We have to understand sentences before we can construct them

      Based on my own experience learning English, I am not sure that's true. I had trouble understand English as deep or fast as I do with my native language. But once I started to actually use and especially speak English as my primary langauge, my understanding of English, and the speed by which to do that, reached a whole new level.

    3. Re:not real AI by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      http://pdos.csail.mit.edu/scigen/

    4. Re:not real AI by thoughtsatthemoment · · Score: 1

      Clearly this program uses sentence patterns to generate sentences that seem grammatically correct but make no sense to anyone who think about it, or as the recent T-Mobile conercial says it makes sense if you don't think about it.

  32. Loan it to the patent office by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Subject is "Prior art"

    Nuff said ;)

  33. Applications for this by michael_cain · · Score: 1

    Interesting that one of the things mentioned repeatedly in articles is about using the technology to perform/aid medical diagnosis. Simple rule-based diagnostic software has been created in the past that is consistently better than human diagnosticians. Patients hate them, though, since it sounds like a game of 20 questions after which the software announces that you have disease X. Trained neural net software is significantly better than humans at identifying certain kinds of conditions when reading x-rays. I know of at least one cancer clinic where every x-ray is read by both a human and a piece of software in order to take advantage of the relative strengths of each.

    Will IBM be able to make Watson significantly better than the existing, simpler, cheaper software?

  34. Savvy by giltwist · · Score: 1

    While what Watson represents is a huge leap forward in AI, ultimately it's not much different than some of the better chat bots. The only difference now is a massively better database from which to query. While the ability to "understand" idiosyncratic speech, such as puns, will merge nicely with speech recognition softeware that already exists so that you can now use "Call mother" and "Call mom" interchangeably without programming those specific phrases, it is nothing like true intelligence. Some thoughts.

    1) Can Watson MAKE even the most rudimentary puns just because it can process them? Call me when a computer comes up with something even as dreadfully literal as "Want to hear a dirty joke? A pig fell in the mud." The creation of puns requires the creator to have some sort of theory of mind of the listener. Statistics does cool things, and may eventually inform a computer that algorithmically generated statements that contain references to farts are generally received as "funnier," but that is about it.

    2) The response about Wonder Woman being the first woman in space is a crucial component to intelligence. It's all just data to Watson. Until we can really define what makes Wonder Woman fictitious, Mark Twain fictitious and Samuel Clemens real, Watson ain't got a prayer in the world. Hell, real live people have trouble telling when Stephen Colbert is being himself or his person. How do you let one of Watson's descendants participate in socially constructed reality?

    3) How do you explain in rules that "1+1=2", "one cow meets another cow is two cows," and "A day after a day from now is two days from now" are all the same class of statement? We don't even really know how humans make some of these incredibly simple relationships.

  35. I wish they had a little more fun with this. by EnsilZah · · Score: 1

    I wish they had some more amusing answers having to do with HAL, Skynet, Deep Thought, GLaDOS, Asimov and the like.

  36. About 7... by RyuuzakiTetsuya · · Score: 1

    There were the weird numerical amounts of bets made for final jeopardy and daily doubles involving the number 7.

    Watson runs on the POWER7 platform.

    Unless there's statistical math here I'm not aware of at play, it's probably some marketing gimmick.

    --
    Non impediti ratione cogitationus.
  37. WTF by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Where the fuck was the spoiler alert warning? Douchebag Slashdot.

  38. How about a fucking spoiler alert? -_- by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    nuff said

  39. Computers Designing Computers by red_flea · · Score: 2

    Isaac Asimov saw the day coming when man would not be smart enough to design the next version of a computer. The computer would have to design its own successor, each supremely more powerful and yet smaller than the last. Extrapolating this trend over many iterations, the computer becomes uniquely supreme in power and omniscience. But we have a different word for that.

    A classic only a few pages long and worth a read, The Last Question, by Isaac Asimov.

  40. It's just people whining by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 4, Insightful

    They miss the real point: That a computer could do a level of natural language processing that was impossible before. They get caught up on bitching about how it wasn't "perfectly fair" or the computer "didn't act just like a human." No, it didn't it is a computer and that was never the point. The point was to try and develop a system that could process a natural language question and extract an accurate answer. It does this amazingly well, better than anything before by leaps and bounds.

    The choice of Jeopardy as a medium was for two reasons:

    1) It is a ready made challenging format. It is something that is not well suited for a computer or designed for it in any way, and there is a lot of data to work with. Made it a good choice as something to work on designing and testing for.

    2) It is a good exhibition/publicity chance. It is a way to show off the research, to generate interest in it. It brings it to the masses in a way they can understand. Some abstract talk about a computer in a lab that parses natural language means nothing. This shows a computer doing something pretty impressive against impressive humans. Really drives it home.

    Unfortunately people get all whiny and defensive about it because they feel this is somehow an attack on humanity. They want to find ways to justify that it wasn't "really a fair test" to prove to themselves that the computers haven't "won."

    That is just missing the point entirely. They never claimed Watson was a perfect human analogue (were that the case they would have gone for a rather different demonstration probably). They claimed it was an amazing data mining and parsing system, and they had a cool way to show that off.

    Personally, I think it is just amazing and represents a new stage in computer language processing.

    1. Re:It's just people whining by David+Jao · · Score: 1

      They miss the real point: That a computer could do a level of natural language processing that was impossible before.

      On the contrary, I fully agree that this is the real point.

      You can label this achievement as impressive in many different valid ways. Just don't call it Jeopardy. That is the one characterization that is objectively false.

    2. Re:It's just people whining by J-1000 · · Score: 1

      The point was to try and develop a system that could process a natural language question and extract an accurate answer. It does this amazingly well, better than anything before by leaps and bounds.

      Don't you think it diminishes this point a bit when it appeared as though the buzzer timing was as big a factor as getting the question right? I think Watson's amazing too, which is why I want to see it tested the right way. Humans have natural imprecision when it comes to hitting the buzzer which, in the viewer's mind at least, seems to cancel itself out over the course of the match. But Watson's precision really exposes that weakness in the game.

    3. Re:It's just people whining by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      On one level it's a new stage in computer language processing. On another level it's a new level of human ingenuity to get a computer to do this.

    4. Re:It's just people whining by elsurexiste · · Score: 1

      They miss the real point: That a computer could do a level of natural language processing that was impossible before.

      On the contrary, I fully agree that this is the real point.

      You can label this achievement as impressive in many different valid ways. Just don't call it Jeopardy. That is the one characterization that is objectively false.

      I disagree. You miss the content for the format. He was playing Jeopardy because the rules were such, not because of a strategy or something that you may think is part of the game or what makes the game enjoyable is present. If I wanted to play Jeopardy, had hiper-fast hands and do speed reading, would you say I'm being unfair and that I don't play on a Jeopardy-approved performance level? A good indicator is that the other players didn't see a non-Jeopardy player, they see him as a real Jeopardy opponent. Why would it be that way, if he wasn't playing Jeopardy but something else or with different rules?

      You complain that Watson can press the button faster, but the other participants can press the button without having the answer, just the intuition that in the few milliseconds (even seconds!) left they will remember it, or perhaps just as a gamble. That's a HUGE advantage over Watson, who won't press if he's too unsure, or before he even begins to feel unsure. Therefore, they are even.

      Presumably Watson is receiving a direct digital feed of the tournament questions (oops, answers, I forgot this is Jeopardy)

      You are whining because you don't know exactly how he received the questions, so he MUST have received and processed them before the other players? You surely see the problem in your own proposition.

      I would have modded you -1, Overrated. But I don't have points, so a reply would be appropriate.

      --
      I rarely respond to comments. Also, don't ask for clarifications: a brain and Google are faster, believe me!
    5. Re:It's just people whining by wikdwarlock · · Score: 1

      Agreed. Watching the end of the first game (even including the Toronto gaffe) was awe inspiring to me. It was literally one of the most significant things I've ever experienced in my life.

      --

      "I must not fear. Fear is the mind killer." -Bene Gesserit Litany Against Fear
    6. Re:It's just people whining by maxume · · Score: 1

      If you go by the two games that were played, it is obvious that human anticipation was not a huge advantage over machine reflexes.

      (I don't think it takes away from Watson, but it made the Jeopardy format sort of boring; kind of like watching Jennings in the middle of his streak, the other players were just standing there)

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    7. Re:It's just people whining by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I can disagree readily with the notion that the method of input is pointless. It's the difference between AI and automation. We perceive, then compute, then output. Computers that are spoon-fed input, then process, then output are simply automations. Our brains are simply computers. The difficult computational tasks that our brains truly work on are formatting fairly arbitrary audio/visual input streams into intelligible datastreams for indexing into our memories/built-in instincts. While it's true that doing the later part of the problem is fairly impressive this isn't a jeopardy playing cyborg. It's just an automation of a large index of data.

      Impressive as all this is, this is the next iPhone trivia app and not the iPhone that will tell me how interpret philosophy and how the clouds makes it feel. Saying that, "Well it's a computer of course it's not a human analog!" is like saying, "Of course a human hand isn't as good at pounding nails as a hammer!" But, then again when do people try pitting hammers and human fists in a contest of equals?

    8. Re:It's just people whining by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Unfortunately the majority of Americans who watched wanted to see a contest, not a demonstration of the computer's ability to parse language.

      In that context, the whining is perfectly acceptable. We didn't see a contest of who was a better Jeopardy player, we saw a contest of who could click the little blue button the fastest. The computer was getting the answers, sure, but so were the other contestants; Watson slaughtered them by consistently buzzing in first.

      So it's really not fair to blame people for "not getting it." Jeopardy, IBM, and everybody in the media set the competition up as just that, a competition, not a demonstration.

    9. Re:It's just people whining by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      PBS had a special on this. Watson is fed the question in text form as Alex finishes reading the question so Watson only has a few milliseconds to press the button.

    10. Re:It's just people whining by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I would not call it "getting all whiny and defensive about it". In fact, I would LOVE to have a cellphone that can answer many of my daily questions. But this is not the case, there is no real intelligence in Watson (proof: see the wrong answers it got... it's not really thinking them, they just happened to be the statistically correct answer).

      It's merely an advanced statistical parser / information linker. A VERY advanced one. It does not think. Just like the wheel of a F1 car, more advanced than a stone wheel, but nevertheless, a wheel.

      Let's call this by what it really is: an advancement in language processing. Or maybe not. It may be that NOVEL theories are NOT implemented in Watson's algorithms. MAYBE "old" language processing algorithms were implemented in a MASSIVE COMPUTER with the sole purpose of publicity. (Disclaimer: I said "maybe" because I really don't know very much about language processing algorithms)

  41. Kinda missing the point by Namarrgon · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Who cares, if Watson's artificial reflexes gave it a few milliseconds' advantage on the buzzer? Who even cares if it'd take it a second longer to read the clue via OCR? So what if Watson would be 5% faster or 10% slower, if conditions were slightly different? Moore's Law makes that level of difference utterly irrelevant - in 18 months time, Watson will be *100% faster* (or even today, if IBM just threw more hardware at it).

    Deep Blue vs Kasparov was fascinating at the time, but is uninteresting now for the same reason. A decent desktop PC can play at that level. And comparing human vs machine play styles is also largely pointless, in the same way that comparing birds and jets is pointless.

    The important part, by far, is that Watson parsed the questions, linked the clues and searched for statistically relevant answers in a human-like time. The amazing fact is, it can actually do it *at all*. Now that today's systems can do this sort of language parsing and information retrieval in a "reasonable" time, it will be increasingly trivial for tomorrow's. It is now all but inevitable that we will have Watson-like systems available to the public, in numerous fields, in corporations and on the web, in your PCs and even your game consoles, in a brief handful of years.

    --
    Why would anyone engrave "Elbereth"?
    1. Re:Kinda missing the point by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Good points. While a bit unfair to the humans in some ways, it's incredible how fast it was able to come up with answers. It's making *sense* of very complex input, and an extremely massive, cluttered data set, to formulate not only the best answer, but a whole set of possible answers and how likely they all are. In the few cases where it was wrong, in almost all cases, the correct answer was in the top 3. It's amazing that a system can be that good just using statistical analysis.

      It wasn't only buzzing before the humans, it had the right answer ready to go before the humans in most cases as well.

      And do understand, while the project is an accomplishment, very little new ai progress has been made here. From what I can tell, they are using very standard statistical analysis algorithms, trained on a lot of data. But how far they were able to take tried and true techniques is pretty cool to see.

    2. Re:Kinda missing the point by ramk13 · · Score: 1

      It wasn't only buzzing before the humans, it had the right answer ready to go before the humans in most cases as well.

      This is a HUGE assumption. We don't know how long it took for Watson to come up with an answer, and we don't know for the humans either. Jeopardy rules are such that you *cannot* buzz before the end of the question. The speed aspect was removed from the equation.

      If you took out the buzzer limitation it would have been a much more interesting (but less fun to watch) competition. Imagine the category is state capitals, and the words "pelican state" are in the clue. That's all a good human would need to buzz, just the word pelican. If the human was anticipating a state nickname (and knew them all), the human could buzz before the moderator even said the word, hear the word as the buzzer is going off, then give the answer. What would it take to build Watson to do that? What if the computer had to listen to the words (and understand them) instead of being fed them electronically? That sort of timing, anticipation, and processing is a much greater challenge than what we saw and would also be immensely useful. If you wanted to build a robot that could listen to someone and respond, that is the sort of intelligence and speed you'd need.

      The engineers who worked on the project did a great job...I'm just hoping there's more coming along the same lines.

    3. Re:Kinda missing the point by Namarrgon · · Score: 1

      You could argue that it was a bit unfair to Watson too, not equipping it with the means to hear other player's answers (the incorrect ones too, like that "1920s" answer of Ken's). Swings & roundabouts, and largely irrelevant.

      One could also argue that the human brain itself simply does a form of statistical analysis on a lot of data (after many years of training). The mechanics are a little different, in that the brain uses weighted synapse connections instead of numerical data, but the process may not be so different.

      And taking these techniques to a near-human level is of course a wonderful PR exercise, and quite inspirational.

      --
      Why would anyone engrave "Elbereth"?
    4. Re:Kinda missing the point by ramk13 · · Score: 1

      Replying to my own post, but I just found this Ken Jennings quote about this match, which relates to what I said above:
      http://live.washingtonpost.com/jeopardy-ken-jennings.html?hpid=talkbox1

      On last night's show, I noticed you buzzing in even when you didn't know the answer right away, taking a second after Alex called on you to finish reading the question and give an answer. In your opinion, is this the only way to beat Watson?

      A. Ken Jennings :
      Good human players do this all the time: you buzz when you see something that trips some "This looks familiar!" switch in your brain and count on dredging it out in the five seconds after Alex calls on you.
      Watson can't do this: it only buzzes once it has an answer in mind and a sufficiently high confidence interval. As weird as it sounds, yes, the human brain still has a speed advantage over a 2,880-processor-core computer.

    5. Re:Kinda missing the point by FrootLoops · · Score: 1

      And comparing human vs machine play styles is also largely pointless

      I disagree. The machine's play style (a souped up database search) doesn't generalize to many other tasks while the human's (actually understand the content, or make reasonable inferences) does. I see Watson as a wonderful database search program that appears to parse sentences well. I'd love to be able to ask it things like I do Wolfram Alpha, but Watson's use is in content retrieval and not content creation. That it can't do more than search is a key "failing" of its play style compared to a human's. That certainly doesn't make it useless.

      I was also annoyed when they kept saying Watson "understood" natural language. I don't believe parsing equals understanding, and it clearly didn't truly understand its answers by the mistakes it made and the alternate choices it came up with.

    6. Re:Kinda missing the point by xtracto · · Score: 1

      You know what made it worth it for me? that even if Wason was 10% slower and he needed some extra time to OCR /speech-rec, Watson could stay a whole week 24/7 constantly answering questions and its performance won't decrease. I think *this* is a very important difference, and what makes Watson very valuable.

      --
      Ubuntu is an African word meaning 'I can't configure Debian'
    7. Re:Kinda missing the point by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Totally. Intelligence shouldn't be measured how it is implemented, but how it behaves. It's kind of the Black-Box theory.

    8. Re:Kinda missing the point by osgeek · · Score: 1

      Exactly.

      I'm kind of stunned in this Slashdot thread how many "meh" responses I've seen.

      As a hobbyist AI programmer, I'm astounded at the power of Watson. Watson is not meh. It's fucking amazing. Deep Blue was good at chess? I found it interesting, but who cares? When I live my life I don't play chess. It doesn't apply to anything in the world that isn't chess.

      Watson, however, is the start of a kind of AI that will change the world of our children as much as the Internet and smart phones changed ours.

      Being able to get a smart answer quickly and link those smart answers together to solve bigger and bigger problems will apply to every part of our lives.

    9. Re:Kinda missing the point by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Moore's Law makes that level of difference utterly irrelevant - in 18 months time, Watson will be *100% faster* (or even today, if IBM just threw more hardware at it).

      I put on my robe and pedant hat

      What does increasing the number of transistors per chip which results in maximum profitability have anything to do with Watson becoming more powerful? (Also, you cannot necessarily just throw more hardware at a problem and increase the speed, even if it is a parallelizable problem, but that's a secondary point with regard to my crusade against the misuse of the term Moore's Law).

    10. Re:Kinda missing the point by blueg3 · · Score: 1

      You're right that OCR / voice recognition wouldn't be an interesting hurdle at all. Decent OCR (especially since you know Jeopardy uses clear text and a well-known font) is a solved problem. You might as well give the question to Watson in text, but with a delay equal to how long a human takes to read. (Most Jeopardy players simply read the question and use the time Trebek is talking to work on the answer.) Except that then the problem Watson is trying to solve changes from "determine the answer to the question and confidence level within N seconds" to "...within (N-K) seconds". If your time to solve the problem is reduced from 3 seconds to 2, you can probably overcome this with 50% more hardware. Throwing even twice as much hardware at the problem is neither restrictive nor at all interesting.

    11. Re:Kinda missing the point by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Who cares, if Watson's artificial reflexes gave it a few milliseconds' advantage on the buzzer?

      Because just defining intelligence is a hard problem. Traditionally AI has used the easy cop-out Magic Cabinet of Mystery definition. That may be wrong.

      We care because AI could be teaching us important things about the nature of intelligence. Usually it just teaches us that faster clocks and brute force search will beat Natural Intelligence. (Well, most of us care because it's a competition and humans like watching competition for the simple reason of dealing with winners and losers and the consequences of winning and losing.)

      On the practical level, Watson and Deep Blue were nothing more than search tools. The real winners were the engineers who built them. It's just that the intelligent hand guiding the tool is separated enough that we simple humans ignore it. We can't see the hand wielding the hammer, so we assume the hammer is the one pounding the nails. We credit the hammer with motivation, willpower, intelligence. Then our leaders and common men alike turn around to ask it what our horoscope says before we go off to buy our lottery tickets or go to war. Trusting someone else's hammer to hit your nails right, in other words.

      On the philosophical level there is the question of structure verses appearance. The internal differences in how the solutions are achieved is so remarkable. Turing claims that only the shallow surface matters. Kasparov used intelligence to make his moves by definition, considering very few board positions each time. Deep Blue looked at every possible board position it could in the limited time allotted. Turing says these are the same, even though on it's face we know it is not. Watson was a fast enough of a searcher. But then Jeopardy has always been about simple pattern recognition and memory recall for humans and machines. What happens when we boil fake brains down to simple searches on giant corpus? What does that tell us about how humans (with their far more limited search and memory) achieve things the brain was not meant? Things like the making of Watson and Deep Blue.

      On the futurist level, if the Singularity is gonna happen and be meaningful, I'd want whatever substrate comes along to be able to support real intelligence. I'd not like to be tossed aside as a species for a faster version of Google indexing just a larger cache of humanity's gloss and porn. I'd like a machine upload for immortality to be more than fitting a bunch of sql search parameters into a Google Chrome 2045 Brain Upload Edition Browser followed by a trip to the suicide booth.

      The key to understanding the stigma of AI research are these solutions it's leading practitioners have proposed for 'intelligence.' Sure, it's easy to run a Turing Test. But Turing's test doesn't really tell you anything about the agents involved. It's a cop out. Turing didn't want to consider that the internal mechanism involved may be important. This does not mean that alternative mechanisms to the way humans implement intelligence don't exist. It does mean that parroting human behavior does not automatically make something intelligent. Methods may be very important, and AI as a field is full of cleaver tricks, but fast search gets all the gold medals. Then again, AI may teach us eventually that intelligence really is just some simple processes with massive amounts of power behind it.

      But in the end both Watson and Deep Blue are computers and just operated at computer (the human manual math calculator) level. They were no more intelligent than a slide rule and the designers knew that before they built them. It is as if someone handed me a book with all the Jeopardy questions, indexed by answers. I only have to turn a page. The book is not intelligent. And the user might not be, too.

    12. Re:Kinda missing the point by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't think it is a natural language processor any more than google is a natural language processor. If I type into google "this is a city in massachusetts known for baked beans" I will see the word "Boston" all over my search results. Watson was fed the clues digitally. It didn't infer anything from the inflection or tone of the speaker's voice. This is a significant part of language. "It's not what he said it's how he said it!" Given that I could practically write a shell script to do what Watson did using google, I don't even see this as a big deal. Search for the clue on google. Parse for the most common phrase excluding common words like "but". Confidence is the percentage of sources that contain your "top" rated word or phrase. There was plenty of time for this from when Trebek began asking the question and the contestants were permitted to ring in.

    13. Re:Kinda missing the point by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "The important part, by far, is that Watson parsed the questions, linked the clues and searched for statistically relevant answers in a human-like time."

      U.S. Patent Office are you listening?

    14. Re:Kinda missing the point by mark-t · · Score: 1

      Actually, I remember a human player doing that once... repeating another player's wrong answer. He was visibly embarrassed.

    15. Re:Kinda missing the point by Namarrgon · · Score: 1

      Interesting, but as you say, we still don't really know what "intelligence" actually is. "Kasparov used intelligence", but what does that mean? Years of chess experience had stored tens of thousands of statistically-important chess patterns in his memory, so that a brief, subconscious search presented a few relevant strategies? How can we be sure that what Kasparov does isn't fundamentally different to the basics of what Watson does, just on a (much) larger scale?

      There is evidence to suggest that, given that the brain is a massive & sophisticated neural net, intelligence could well be no more than that which neural nets do well - weighted pattern matching - but simply on a scale we cannot yet build artificially. This happens at such a low level for us, and at such speed (thanks to massive parallelism) that the answers just "appear" in our minds, in a way we cannot easily fathom. Vision, "understanding", emotion, creativity - all these "magical" attributes may well be reducible to highly complex, semi-deterministic, patterned responses. Given Moore's Law, we should be able to start testing these hypotheses in as little as 10-15 years.

      What does that tell us about how humans (with their far more limited search and memory)

      I think you grossly underestimate the human brain. While computers may remember data more accurately, the capacity of humans to filter, extract meaning from and store a lifetime of high-bandwidth sensory input is truly staggering - and the ability to search a lifetime's memories in an instant without being overwhelmed by detail speaks to our brain's enormously parallel operation. It's simply incomparable to any hardware we have yet built (in 2007, all the world's supercomputers combined amounted to 0.3% of the capacity of a single human brain). But thanks to exponential growth, these supercomputers will be 10,000 times faster in only 20 years, and a single system will be at last comparable in scale to our brain. Then this field will get very interesting...

      --
      Why would anyone engrave "Elbereth"?
    16. Re:Kinda missing the point by Namarrgon · · Score: 1

      I would point at historical examples, and say that Moore's Law has (indirectly) resulted in similar exponential growth in a system's ability to store and search data. There is no reason to assume this won't continue to grow at a similar exponential rate.

      Yes, Moore's Law does not directly state this, but it is certainly the major enabling cause of the growth of all these other metrics.

      --
      Why would anyone engrave "Elbereth"?
    17. Re:Kinda missing the point by Namarrgon · · Score: 1

      I don't think parsing equals understanding either, whatever "understanding" actually is, but I do suspect that a fast statistical analysis of a sufficiently large database may well be indistinguishably equivalent. We really don't know for sure yet, not having a database that comes close to matching a human's lifetime of experience.

      Watson's database was trained specifically in trivia, whereas humans have a far broader range of experience, including vastly more experience with use of language. Given a broad and deep enough database (and the extra speed required to search it in a reasonable time), it is quite possible that Watson's responses would be a lot more convincing.

      There are obvious other differences too, like the fact that Watson was deaf and blind, which hindered its responses. These probably aren't relevant to the deeper question of understanding, but may well be necessary before most humans will accept a machine as "intelligent".

      As for content creation, there is evidence that creativity may actually be as simple as weighted linking of related concepts across a broad enough range of experience, combined with a filter that self-checks the result against against that same experience. We've seen very interesting examples of this in traditionally human-dominated fields, like music. The gulf between human and machine capabilities is still very wide, but shrinking each year as Watson has demonstrated.

      --
      Why would anyone engrave "Elbereth"?
    18. Re:Kinda missing the point by quantaman · · Score: 1

      Who cares, if Watson's artificial reflexes gave it a few milliseconds' advantage on the buzzer? Who even cares if it'd take it a second longer to read the clue via OCR? So what if Watson would be 5% faster or 10% slower, if conditions were slightly different? Moore's Law makes that level of difference utterly irrelevant - in 18 months time, Watson will be *100% faster* (or even today, if IBM just threw more hardware at it).

      It actually is fairly important.

      Watson won convincingly, but how much of that win was due to it's superior answering ability, and how much was due to it's speed?

      It's clearly a better Jeopardy player than the top humans, and will become only stronger as time goes on. But Jeopardy is a game of trivia answering and reaction speed, and since the humans were often denied the opportunity to answer by Watson's speed we don't know who was better at actually answering trivia.

      Clearly the trivia answering abilities will improve in the future, but not necessarily as fast as the speed, and we don't know what gap, if any, there is.

      --
      I stole this Sig
  42. Did you notice this one? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Here was recently an article about meat eating furniture that I find quite relevant...

  43. overwhelming incentive to cheat... by PJ6 · · Score: 1

    IBM allowed its engineers to kibitz for Deep Blue when they thought it was making a mistake in the Kasparov tournament. Why would we have any reason to believe that they didn't cheat this time as well?

    I quote from one of the interview videos on YouTube, "IBM's 'Watson' Pits Man vs. Machine on Jeopardy!"

    Does it have an actual track record?
    It does, but I cannot reveal that today.

    Who's to say this isn't just a big steaming piece of shit cooked up by a marketing department that doesn't care at all about real technical achievement?

    Sorry - that does sound a bit cynical, doesn't it.

    1. Re:overwhelming incentive to cheat... by ctid · · Score: 1

      IBM allowed its engineers to kibitz for Deep Blue when they thought it was making a mistake in the Kasparov tournament.

      Do you have any evidence for this assertion?

      --
      Reality is defined by the maddest person in the room
    2. Re:overwhelming incentive to cheat... by PJ6 · · Score: 1

      I can't find the reference any more so you can take that with a grain of salt. Spent 20 minutes looking for it before I posted :/

  44. Where were the audio and visual questions? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If Watson could have answered an audio or visual daily double, now that would have been very impressive.

  45. Watson's buzzer technique is elephant in the room by iliketrash · · Score: 1

    There are a few other comments regarding Watson's buzzer technique, so here's my take.

    Watson was required to press a mechanical button, just as the human players were—you could see the apparatus in plain view. Good move.

    However, what is not clear from any of the comments here or anything else that I have have read and heard, is whether Watson was forced to have a deliberate latency which models a good human button-pusher. Judging from the frustrated reactions of Jennings, it seemed clear that he felt he expected to have buzzed first in many situations but was beaten by the machine simply at buzzing technique.

    Unless the computer was forced to have a human-like latency, it was just too rigged in Watson's favor. Many Jeopardy players have commented on the importance of buzzer technique and Watson may have had unfair advantage.

    Others have commented that Watson was apparently fed the text directly and did not have to parse the answer—possibly another unfair advantage to the computer.

    Maybe there should be a re-match with these problems fixed, or IBM should clarify what happened. The buzzer issue is just a giant pink elephant in the room.

    HOWEVER, let's not overlook the obvious: This was a stunning performance by a computer and THE ENGINEERS WON!

  46. brute force and ignorance by rcpitt · · Score: 1
    If I had umpteen petabytes of RAM and could search through it and do keyword matches in milliseconds, maybe I'd be able to win Jepardy too.

    wetware - 21st Century backwater

    on the other hand, I do know that Toronto is not in the US - at least not yet.

    --
    Been there, done that, paid for the T-shirt
    and didn't get it
    1. Re:brute force and ignorance by blueg3 · · Score: 1

      Although there is a Toronto in the U.S. and the Toronto in Canada has an American League baseball team.

    2. Re:brute force and ignorance by beschra · · Score: 1

      I'm sure it's been referenced above, but Nova just ran a documentary on the making of Watson. Key word searches are useless in Jeopardy. It's all about understanding language: context, allusions, double-meanings. That kind of stuff. Key word search won't get you that.

      --
      It is unwise to ascribe motive
    3. Re:brute force and ignorance by Agent0013 · · Score: 1

      on the other hand, I do know that Toronto is not in the US - at least not yet.

      Oh really?

      From Wikipedia:

      * Toronto, Illinois, located south of Springfield, Illinois and to the west of Lake Springfield
      * Toronto, Indiana
      * Toronto, Iowa
      * Toronto, Kansas
      * Toronto, Missouri
      * Toronto, Ohio
      * Toronto, South Dakota

      --

      -- ssoorrrryy,, dduupplleexx sswwiittcchh oonn.. -Quote found on actual fortune cookie.
    4. Re:brute force and ignorance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sorry but people from United States seems to ignore that people in Canada are living in America too

  47. Next Challenge by KeithIrwin · · Score: 1

    I think that the next logical thing for IBM to do is spent several more millions to build a new computer which can play an effective game of Win, Lose, or Draw.

    Wait, no, that's been off the air for a very long time. How about charades?

    1. Re:Next Challenge by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How about competing on the Last Comic Standing?

      Having software that comes up with original and humorous jokes seems like a significant challenge. And jokes that are funny because they're totally nonsensical don't count.

  48. 30 Years by devnullkac · · Score: 1

    In thirty years it will all fit in your pocket and cost $19.99.

    In 30 years, Alex Trebek will be 100 years old and perhaps replaced by a computer himself. The hard part will be replacing the army or producers and researchers that generate the answer/question pairs, as well as the judges that determine whether a contestant's answer is correct/complete enough. Perhaps 30 years will be long enough for a roomful of computers to do those jobs and we can look forward to a computer generated game pitting computers against each other to compete for Quatloos, running thousands or millions of games an hour. Who'd tune in for that?

    --
    What do you mean they cut the power? How can they cut the power, man? They're animals!
    1. Re:30 Years by brillow · · Score: 1

      I think most of those things will take much less than 30 years. I'd guess that in less than 5 years this feat is as uninteresting as what Google does millions of times a day and will be just as cheap.

  49. I'm sure he does by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The computer overlords comment sure rings like a Slashdotter. Besides, is there a programmer out there that isn't?

    1. Re:I'm sure he does by JTsyo · · Score: 1

      Maybe he's just a Simpson's fan.

  50. War on Terror, Signals Intelligence, Spying... by zonker · · Score: 0

    I'm curious how long before the Defense Department wants to add Watson to Echelon. This is just the kind of thing that would be perfect for trying to understand context in communications to determine the difference between a normal conversation and one of terrorists...

  51. Not even close. by danpbrowning · · Score: 1

    It's not going to take 30 years for that system to fit in your pocket and cost $20. It's going to take 5 or 10.

    No. It will be far more than 10 years before you buy 15 TB RAM and 2880 cores for $20, let alone fit it in your pocket.

    Even 30 years is pushing it. Let's examine just the CPU. Watson has a total of 432 billion transistors in 2.2 square *feet* total die area (204120mm^2) using 45nm process. By contrast, the iPhone 4 has one core in 53mm^2 using 45nm process.

    That's *four* orders of magnitude. When I do the math, I come up with 48 years for transistors to shrink that much (see below). That's assuming Moore's Law holds true indefinitely and $20 portables will have 50mm^2 processors.

    The only way I can get 10 years is if I assume that $20 portable computers will have 35,000mm^2 die area for the CPU. That's a 7-inch-wide CPU die (!). By contrast, the Intel Core i5 die is only half an inch in diameter.

    At best, we'll get enough software optimizations that we can run something "similar" to Watson on much less powerful hardware, such as $20 portables.

    The math (works in octave but not bc):

    # IBM power7 die area in square mm.
    per_cpu_da = 567

    # Number of power7 processors in Watson
    watson_cpu_count = 360

    # Watson die area in square mm.
    watson_da = per_cpu_da * watson_cpu_count

    # Cheap and portable die area in square mm.
    cheap_da = 50

    # Number of years for transistor count to double for a given area.
    doubles_every = 2

    doubling_factor = 1 / doubles_every
    years = log(cheap_da / watson_da) / (doubling_factor * log(1 / sqrt(2)))

    --
    Daniel
    1. Re:Not even close. by JTsyo · · Score: 1

      But the hardware isn't really needed for practical use. the hardware gets you quick answer to win in Jeopardy but if you are willing to wait for 2 hours, IBM said 1 cpu could run Watson. With the database stored online and a portable tablet with 4 cores running the Watson program, I could see it for retail in ten years. Not at $20 though, maybe $200.

  52. Can be achieved using Google as well by yhager · · Score: 1

    I just went to the questions archive (for example http://www.j-archive.com/showgame.php?game_id=3577), and simply pasted to Google the answers that Watson got right. Guess what? if you scratch the "Jeopardy archive" results, which haven't been there while the show was running, you get the correct response in the first or second answers (questions?) from Google. Take that, add a tiny bit of code to clean it up, and you're done.

    Not sure if it makes Google more impressive, or IBM less of, but it definitely reduces the AI part to a simple keyword search on the Internet...

    --
    -- Yuval Hager yuval@avramzon.net
    1. Re:Can be achieved using Google as well by FrootLoops · · Score: 1

      Well... yes and no. A decently competent human can answer the vast majority of Jeopardy questions very quickly if given access to Google. Automatically sifting through the results is difficult (as you can see if you try pasting a few questions verbatim), and Google's database is much larger than Watson's.

      As an example of the non-triviality of "sifting" Google results to find the correct answer, try to look answer this: "As of 2010, Croatia & Macedonia are candidates but this is the only former Yugoslav republic in the EU". I'd have to search to find out what the former Yugoslav republics were, get a list of EU members, and compare the two.

    2. Re:Can be achieved using Google as well by bws111 · · Score: 1

      Someone else who COMPLETELY missed the point of the exercise. Believe it or not, the answer to "Before this hotel mogul's elbow broke through it, a Picasso he owned was worth $139 million; after, $85 million" is NOT "http://www.luxist.com/tag/metropolitan+museum+of+art". It is "Steve Wynn". Yes, you, a human being, can read the question and understand that you are supposed to be giving a person's name as the answer. And you, a human being, can read through the results the Google returned and find the name of the person who damaged the piece of art. Google is not doing any of that for you. THAT is the difference between Google and Watson. And if you think it takes just 'a tiny bit of code' to do those things you have no idea what you are talking about.

    3. Re:Can be achieved using Google as well by yhager · · Score: 1

      Watson didn't get that answer right, so it is not a good example

      --
      -- Yuval Hager yuval@avramzon.net
    4. Re:Can be achieved using Google as well by yhager · · Score: 1

      You're example is a hard one, but most others are not so hard.

      Here are a few:
      "Elected every 5 years, it has 736 members from 7 parties"
      First result - "The European Parliament" - take that verbatim and you win.

      "While Maltese borrows many words from Italian, it developed from a dialect of this Semitic language".
      First result - "Arabic Language".

      "Gambler Charles Wells is believed to have inspired the song "The Man Who" did this "At Monte Carlo"
      Second result - "The Man Who Broke the Bank at Monte Carlo (song)". Cross that with the "this" in the question (familiar pattern in Jeopardy) and you get your answer.

      Anyway, my point is that it doesn't take a huge amount of AI to sift through the first 3 results of Google and try to figure out the response based on a bit of pattern matching, and known questions patterns.

      So my point was, that although this is marketed as a huge AI achievement, I am not convinced (although it might just be a poor proof thereof). keyword matching is not AI, and even Google never marketed it as such. This whole "natural language" hype can be a simple "let's ignore the non-useful-too-popular words and concentrate on keywords", which Google does pretty nicely.

      --
      -- Yuval Hager yuval@avramzon.net
    5. Re:Can be achieved using Google as well by FrootLoops · · Score: 1

      Watson getting the question wrong makes it an even better example that sifting results is non-trivial....

    6. Re:Can be achieved using Google as well by bws111 · · Score: 1

      The only reason Google can display those 'answers' is because someone wrote web pages on those subjects and titled them as such. However, if you change the question a little bit ("The European Parliament has this many members"), Google gives answers like 'Members of Parliament' and 'The European Parliament'. Watson would have also been able to answer this question.

    7. Re:Can be achieved using Google as well by yhager · · Score: 1

      Right, but I just wanted to show that 80% of Watson functionality already exists in Google, so if Watson didn't get it right, it is irrelevant.

      --
      -- Yuval Hager yuval@avramzon.net
    8. Re:Can be achieved using Google as well by FrootLoops · · Score: 1

      My response was mostly to your sentence, "Take that [Google's first or second hit on some search], add a tiny bit of code to clean it up, and you're done," which greatly oversimplifies the process. My example showed how oversimplified your idea is, which makes it relevant. You made another point, that Watson's behavior could be reproduced via Google; my example is irrelevant to this point, as you say, though that's immaterial.

    9. Re:Can be achieved using Google as well by yhager · · Score: 1

      I agree I oversimplified. In the heat of the moment I was amazed by the fact that I checked one after another of the questions, and the response was right there in the title of the first result.
      It shouldn't take 4 years and millions of dollars to get from that to winning jeopardy (given also the ~7 seconds of advantage Watson get by getting the answer in the second it shows, while humans must listen to the host and read the question (I can't read it faster when he is reading it out loud.. Maybe Ken can..)).

      --
      -- Yuval Hager yuval@avramzon.net
  53. t-shirts and mug by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    couldn't help myself

    http://www.cafepress.com/watson2

    lol

  54. Come forth, gather round, my good people! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    slashdot editor: Impressive achievement in 'just-yesterday-called-AI'

    slashdot crowd: Well, yes, but it's not that difficult... and... and... it's not even real AI... and my job is much more difficult than that... and... um. yeah... back to WoW

    rinse/repeat every decade.

  55. Re:Watson's buzzer technique is elephant in the ro by brillow · · Score: 1

    You can't blame Watson for humans being slow readers and having poor reaction time. I mean, there were many questions where Watson had the right answer but did not buzz in first, therefore he did not have some insurmountable advantage. Heck, he didn't even win by that much in the second game. It's strange to say "It's not fair because the machine is better than me!" that's the whole point!

  56. Buzzer by Andy+Smith · · Score: 1

    This was a demonstration of how fast a machine can push a buzzer after receiving a message saying it's time to push the buzzer. Knowledge and language parsing were not the determining factors in the victory.

    1. Re:Buzzer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I agree. The buzzer advantage made Watson look better than it really was.

      Here's what they should have done. If Watson buzzed in within milliseconds and if it were first but followed by Ken or Brad by some small amount of time (~500ms), Jeopardy should have randomly picked either Watson or the human. That could have reduced this unfair buzzer advantage.

    2. Re:Buzzer by Wyrd01 · · Score: 1

      > Knowledge and language parsing were not the determining factors in the victory.

      That would be true if there were no penalty for wrong answers, but there is. Simply buzzing in first in no way wins you the game. You need to buzz in AND get the question right or you'll soon be deep into negative dollars and have no way of winning.

      No, this was a great demonstration of a piece of software that was able to parse through a text "answer", determine what is being asked for, (which may include puns and other word play), and search its memory banks for plausible "questions", all in about 4 seconds. If that doesn't seem impressive then I don't believe you understand just how hard it is to make a piece of software read and understand english.

      That it was able to buzz in first if it felt it knew the correct answer is obvious. It's a machine, of course it's going to be inhumanly fast. It seems like everyone only wants to to challenge a machine if that machine has been handicapped down to the level of a human. Where's the victory in that? I'd argue you aren't truly challenging the machine at all at that point.

    3. Re:Buzzer by blueg3 · · Score: 1

      Even the IBM people have answered this. The only reason that the game boils down to buzzing in first is that the computer is able to answer Jeopardy's questions within 3 seconds. That's really the interesting part. The Jeopardy game is just a demonstration that the computer is able to come up with answers to arbitrary questions (phrased in a particularly computer-unfriendly fashion) within a short period of time and estimate its uncertainty well enough to avoid penalties for wrong answers.

  57. in IBM speak by MrKaos · · Score: 1
    The summary is wrong;

    Resistance is futile; you will be tivolized

    This is what happens when IBM has IBMified you.

    --
    My ism, it's full of beliefs.
  58. good god by lemonade0725 · · Score: 0

    Tyrese, who plays Robert Epps in the upcoming Transformers 3, tweeted fans: "Me & Rosie working hard!! She's a sweet one!!" Rosie, http://lingeriebras.net/ http://lingeriebras.org/ http://lingeriescorset.net/ http://lingeriescorset.org/ http://sexylingeriecorset.org/ http://sexylingeriecorset.net/ whose acting skills seem to be a series of risque lingerie promos, was signed up to star in what is thought to be the final installment in the film series after Megan Fox decided to opt out of the third movie. If the 23-year-old Huntington-Whiteley is proving a success among her co-stars, producer Lorenzo de Bonaventura said her arrival, and Megan's departure, on the franchise did cause some problems. "Definitely some script changes for sure. I wouldn't say a tremendous number, but absolutely there were some changes," he said. "And I think as we're going along, we're discovering new ones we have to make as a result of them." Rosie will star alongside Shia LaBeouf, who will reprise his role as lead character Sam Witwicky, in Transformers 3, due for release in 2011

  59. When was this first announced? by G3ckoG33k · · Score: 1

    I am sure IBM didn't want to lose this. So they had to decide when to go public with this project, and also be sure they win.

    Does anyone know when it was first announced?

  60. Disappointed by Second and Third Options by xtracto · · Score: 1

    I was kind of disappointed by the second and third options (the ones not selected). Because they show that Watson answers are purely based on syntactic properties and not semantic. For example in the question:
    "Name the Decade - DISNEYLAND OPENS & THE PEACE SYMBOL IS CREATED" Watson second and third answers were "Kingdom" and "It's a small world" which are completely irrelevant to the *meaning* of the subject at hand.

    This means that, when Watson is wrong, it is usually *very* wrong. It also means that its reasoning mechanism does not allow it to give an approximation.

    Take for example, if you asked him... what color is the bottom of the sea? Watson would most likely tell you "Red Sea Fan???" or maybe "black dragonfish???" because such answers are syntactically related to "color" "bottom/deep/end" "sea/water/ocean". Whereas a person not knowing the real answer would tell you "Blue???", or "Black???".

    --
    Ubuntu is an African word meaning 'I can't configure Debian'
  61. Re:nothing more by TaoPhoenix · · Score: 1

    You're getting close to the True Scotsman fallacy. Natural language processing of "questions" (despite Jeopardy's grammar inversion) is much closer to the original Turing Test family of AI tests.

    It was programmed to win. If you want it to "understand the nature of its errors" that will be an additional million but they'd do it for you if it were important enough.

    What does it have to do to be impressive? We're applying a special kind of jadedness to force a particular computer program to match wits with *the best* of human examples of a field, when your average human performs miserably, but we cling to he threads of general inelligence.

    --
    My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
  62. Yup, pure PR by xtracto · · Score: 1

    The other day I saw a documentary about Deep Blue vs Kasparov. One of the comments was that at the time of the chess match, IBM was seen as this "office furniture provider" whereas Microsoft, Apple, (SUN?) and others where seen as the technology innovators.

    Thus, they decide to make this challenge as a press stunt. Of course, they have to ensure that their machine wins so that they get all the "glory". In the documentary I saw, they comment about all the issues that surrounded the game.

    --
    Ubuntu is an African word meaning 'I can't configure Debian'
  63. Accent by FelxH · · Score: 1

    A common drawback with speech recognition seems to be the accent the AI is trained with. I wonder how well Watson would fare with, say, a British host ..

  64. Are you a chess grandmaster? by mangu · · Score: 1

    Of course, I don't think that Deep Blue really out-played Kasparov on a level playing field either... I would be far more impressed if they could design a chess-playing computer that only considers a few hundred board combinations and still plays at a grandmaster level, since that is all that even the best human grandmasters do.

    How do you know what grandmasters do?

    When I was about 12 years old I had a neighbor who played chess and he always beat me. What surprised me was that, for every play I came up with, he always had a winning counter play. That guy, who was certainly not a chess master, knew thousands of different plays.

    It's interesting that it was exactly that which turned me off chess. I realized that playing chess wasn't a matter of reasoning and logic as I had thought. Learning to play chess well is hard work, thousands of games to study, thousands of alternative plays to memorize.

    Playing chess is too machine-like to my taste.

    1. Re:Are you a chess grandmaster? by mark-t · · Score: 1

      How do you know what grandmasters do?

      Because, apparently, they say so. For myself, my awareness of this comes from having listened to a guest lecturer (whose name I am afraid I don't recall offhand because it was about 25 years ago or so) at the University of Alberta in Canada who was working on a computer system at the time called "Deep Thought" (a predecessor to Deep Blue, and quite deliberately named after the computer in Douglas Adam's HGttG), had mentioned this interesting tidbit in passing... that a computer has to consider many orders of magnitude more board combinations than a human does (or even possibly could), simply to challenge even very elementary players, and that even grandmasters only typically considered a few dozen plays at most before making a move, whereas Deep Thought analyzed millions. I presumed that he knew what he was talking about.

    2. Re:Are you a chess grandmaster? by mangu · · Score: 1

      a computer has to consider many orders of magnitude more board combinations than a human does (or even possibly could), simply to challenge even very elementary players, and that even grandmasters only typically considered a few dozen plays at most before making a move

      I think humans consider many more combinations than they are aware of, because they do it in parallel. The human eye is excellent at recognizing patterns, this processing starts in the retina, before reaching the brain itself.

      When a human player sees a chess position, let's say a knight and three pawns, he might recognize from their positions that two of the pawns are doomed so he falls back to a standard knight and one pawn, which is a well studied situation that can be played from memorized textbook positions.

      The computer, OTOH, has to evaluate all the intermediate positions that will inevitably lead to the loss of two pawns before reaching the textbook positions. The reason why the human player didn't evaluate all those positions was because he "pruned" those plays from the tree of alternatives he had to evaluate.

      In the end, the number of viable alternatives they consider are approximately the same, only the computer is faster at evaluating the alternatives by checking them move by move, while the human is faster at identifying patterns in the position.

    3. Re:Are you a chess grandmaster? by mark-t · · Score: 1

      the computer is faster at evaluating the alternatives by checking them move by move, while the human is faster at identifying patterns in the position

      When we can get a computer to do *THAT*, then we will have *really* made a computer that has solved chess.

      It's not the eye that recognizes the patterns so efficiently in chess,by the way... if it were, there would be no grandmaster level blind players.

    4. Re:Are you a chess grandmaster? by mangu · · Score: 1

      the computer is faster at evaluating the alternatives by checking them move by move, while the human is faster at identifying patterns in the position

      When we can get a computer to do *THAT*, then we will have *really* made a computer that has solved chess.

      In the end, it's all a matter of processor architecture. The human brain is made of a hundred billion CPUs operating at a clock rate of 100 Hz. A desktop computer is made of four CPUs operating at three billion Hz. Do the math and see who has the advantage.

      There are computer algorithms to find patterns, but we still don't have enough CPU power to run them efficiently in a chess computer. At our current technology level, brute power search through game positions gives better results.

      "Thinking like a human" depends on having hardware like a human.

  65. Not a true test of cognitive abilities by Ora*DBA · · Score: 1

    One of Jeopardy's rules is that one cannot buzz in until the moderator finishes reading the question. That gave an infinite advantage to Watson. I have no doubt that Rutter and Jennings would have made a much better game of it if that rule had been waived; then it would have been a real test of man against machine for comprehending and answering the questions. Ah well, I'm sure IBM funded the whole thing. As far as I am concerned it was an expensive ad, not a contest.

  66. Doh! by alphatel · · Score: 1

    I for one, welcome our new computer overlords!

    --
    When the foot seeks the place of the head, the line is crossed. Know your place. Keep your place. Be a shoe.
  67. Today's abstrusegoose ... relevant. by GNUALMAFUERTE · · Score: 1
    --
    WTF am I doing replying to an AC at 5 A.M on a Friday night?
  68. We already have this. by MaWeiTao · · Score: 1

    It already fits in my pocket, although it doesn't quite cost $20 yet. It's called a Smartphone. Get on the internet, use a search engine and I can find information on anything I want. Granted, the answers don't come as quickly and the device isn't answering anything on it's own. But still, the principle is similar.

    Not to trivialize what IBM has done...

  69. Jeopardy? why not make a doctor expert system by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Annoying that a sci-fi thing like this is designed to play jeopardy... when they could for example stuff it full of medical science facts, (or some other science that require a huge amount of book-knowledge). Could save a few gazillion of human lives and aid doctors to take faster and more correct decisions.

  70. Re:buzz-in advantage by rhendershot · · Score: 1

    I haven't had time to watch the episodes I recorded but out of curiosity, how long does Watson have to wait until it marks that the host has finished reading the clue? I presume that Jeopardy didn't supply a trigger event and since Watson is less adept at reading human body language it would seem that some amount of audio silence would be required before Watson would allow itself to buzz in.

    The humans though would observe the host "winding down" -that's where early buzzes come from- and be ready instantly as they hear the period. Clues can be complex sentences but the human can more readily identify the intention of the host of saying the last clue.

    It seems like the humans would have some subtle advantage then.

  71. I for one was waiting for Watson to say... by Iceman4234 · · Score: 1

    Sorry Alex, I can't do that.

  72. Paul Muad'Dib by guybrush3pwood · · Score: 1

    "Thou shalt not make a machine in the likeness of a man's mind" -- Paul Muad'Dib

    --
    Perhaps I'm trolling, perhaps I'm not.
  73. Re:buzz-in advantage by maxume · · Score: 1

    Jeopardy does give a trigger event. Watson has zero cameras and zero microphones.

    So the humans do have every chance to anticipate, but in the 2 recorded games with 2 of the best human players, machine reflexes resulted in a lot more buzzing in first.

    --
    Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
  74. THIS SHOWS THE POWER OF A.I. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Imagine the ability to completely dissect human thought, what facts, hunches and just plain guessing that goes into our every decisions, big or small, important or not.

    That is one of the fundamental advantages to having a machine that thinks (by deterministic programming instead of evolutionary algorithms like in "crystal nights" by Greg Egan). We programmed it, we understand how it thinks and, now, we can tell you how it thought!

    Maybe this will lead to some profound revelation as to how WE think. In any case, it's fascinating and a truly important by-product of A.I.

  75. Re:Watson's buzzer technique is elephant in the ro by maxume · · Score: 1

    The reason we are all complaining about the reaction time is that there is nothing interesting about a machine having better reaction times.

    The 'Jeopardy' part of the promotion was about as interesting as examining a spreadsheet containing the questions and the answers that Watson computed, with some statistics about how quickly Watson arrived at various confidence levels for each answer.

    --
    Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
  76. Re:nothing more by Tanktalus · · Score: 1

    It was programmed to win. If you want it to "understand the nature of its errors" that will be an additional million but they'd do it for you if it were important enough.

    Actually, I expect it already is programmed to learn from its errors. It just may not be able to do that in real time while playing the game.

    From what I recall reading, Watson's AI was trained on years of historic Jeopardy questions. While one possibility is that it merely stored all that as data, more likely is that it would use the questions to attempt an answer, check the real answer, and compare where the real answer appeared in its own list of possibilities, and adjust its weightings accordingly (learning from error), and then go on to the next question. If it were to have had time in the real games to do this, the nature of its errors would likely have been changed, and the two humans would likely have only made about half of what they actually did.

    Either way, this is it learning from its errors - whether that's "understanding" or not really depends on whether you want to ascribe intelligence to a machine, not on what it was really doing.

    This would be a core functionality for Watson in a number of ways. First off, it probably made it easier to input large amounts of data for its base knowledge of the world and comprehension of natural language. Second, IBM doesn't do this type of thing for fun. It's hard research that targets specific real-world problems. If you watched the clips on the first two days, you'd know they were targeting the health sector with this technology. Watson's successor, built off the same research, will be simply useless if it doesn't learn from its mistakes.

    IBM has already spent the "additional million". In fact, I expect it's far more than that - $1m probably covers only about 5 of these developers for one year, when you take into account base salary, bonuses, benefits, and infrastructure like office space, phones, management, and physical site security, and 5 person-years of time is probably only a fraction of what this feature cost. It is important enough.

  77. I,for one, welcome... by Number6.2 · · Score: 1

    Oh...nevermind...

    --
    "If god did not exist, it would be necessary to invent him" --Voltaire
  78. cheating ... by georgesdev · · Score: 2

    The computer received questions through typed entries at the same time as host Alex Trebek read them out loud

    I think this qualifies as cheating for an artificial intelligence demo!

    1. Re:cheating ... by PPH · · Score: 1

      I went to the UW presentation/Jeopardy viewing event on Tuseday. They (the Watson developers) never gave a clear description of the input scheme. Was the text version presented to Watson as the human readable version was revealed? After Alex finished reading them? Somewhere in between?

      In the first case, Watson has a second or two head start on the humans. On the other hand, it is possible (as anyone who has blurted out an answer while watching the show knows) for people to formulate a solution based on an incomplete reading of the question. Humans can pick out key words and begin making associations before reading a question from end to end.

      Where I though Watson cheated was in how it (he? she?) 'keyed in' once the question was read.The time between the buttons being unlocked (an LED lights up) until a player pushes his can be an appreciable fraction of a second. Watson (even if it must physically push a button with a solenoid) can accomplish this in sub milliseconds. And as everyone knows, both Watson and the humans can use the few seconds between the button push and Alex asking for the answer (the question) to continue to formulate their solution.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
  79. Interesting A.I. must be creative by peter303 · · Score: 1

    WATSON is another in a long line of A.I. successes where after its accomplished the average guy says ho-hum, not that interesting after all. Like computer-chess,bute force conquers all. WATSON doesnt have a deep understanding of the thinks it talks about. A computer chess master doesnt invent new strategy.

    A.I.s will become interesting when they tell us something new about the world. Maybe they'll compose clever stories or pictures. Maybe they'll discover something in the mass of data we have not seen before.

  80. Interesting categories Watson lost by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I found it strange that Watson could not get the correct answers on the category "Actors as Directors" and when it did it was slow. It seems a trivial thing for a computer to crosscheck the imdb database or one of the many movie books that lists famous films for the name of the director of the said film. Another interesting thing I noted that I have not seen mentioned alot is the fact that it wagered most of its bets with numbers ending in 7. Why not 9 or 1?It also did not do well on trademarks that have multiple meanings.

    Nevertheless, it was an great show of how far AI has come, not quite Turing Test worthy but definitely on the horizon.

  81. Win or lose. Blah. by Zelgadiss · · Score: 1

    The essence of Jeopardy is to answers questions correctly and quickly.

    Watson has prove itself to be almost at the level of, if not equal to, humans in this regard.

    In professions like medicine and law, where the amount of information a practitioner has to keep in his head is enormous and will only grow, Watson even in it's 1.0 "release" can be of great help.

    I won't be surprise that in 4 years, as IBM continues to improve it's "reasoning" ability, that Watson will be asking questions in return to clarify the details of questions posed to it - and to compensate for the limited context it can perceive.

  82. One good news by JTsyo · · Score: 2

    No one came back in time during the game to take out Watson. So we can reason that either time travel doesn't exists or that Watson doesn't end up being a problem for humanity's future. Guess the third option is that Watson was successful in eliminating all the humans.

  83. So many comments about the buzzer by Wyrd01 · · Score: 1

    Everyone seems to be fixated on the buzzer and the speed with which Watson was able to send the signal to depress the button.

    Well, Watson is a machine, of course it's going to be inhumanly fast. So many comments are claiming it's unfair and some sort of delay or fudge factor should have been built in to level the playing field. This is the Jeopardy "Grand Challenge" where humans are pitted against a machine to see who can win. Why should they dumb-down/handicap/disable the machine down to the level of a human? I'd argue you aren't truly challenging the machine at that point.

    That would be akin to challenging a Kangaroo to a jumping contest and then strapping its legs down in an attempt to reduce it's jumping ability to something closer to what a human could achieve. It's a kangaroo, it's good at jumping, and as a human you're not likely to beat it. But if there was a human who did beat an unmodified Kangaroo in a jumping contest that would be something to brag about.

    Watson can compute at the speed of a computer. It's a computer. Shocking! If you want to claim to have beaten a computer at Jeopardy you're just going to have to be better than it somehow. If you beat a hobbled, artifically slowed down Watson it seems like it would be a fairly hollow victory.

    "Yeah, I beat Michael Jordan in basketball, ten to nothing!" "What? Oh, did I forget to mention that he was playing in a straight-jacket?"

    1. Re:So many comments about the buzzer by PPH · · Score: 1

      So if we remove the issue of speed from the equation (choose a game format other than Jeopardy) , Watson might turn out to look like a moron. Some of its big screw ups were obvious to most humans (Toronto is NOT a city in the USA). So what we have here is a database that contains lots of obscure facts (an advantage in many such competitions), can access them quickly (an advantage particular to the Jeopardy format), but that makes some glaring logic errors and doesn't have particularly good knowledge quality control (a big disadvantage in many real world applications). The IBM Watson researcher giving a talk at the UW on Tuesday described the knowledge acquisition process as 'proprietary'. Given that it has some holes in it, I'd say they are more embarrassed by it than protective of it.

      Jeopardy was a perfect challenge format given that Watson could make up for poor knowledge/bad logic with sheer speed. Its like joining the high school chess club, where the pieces weigh 500 pounds each. The varsity weight lifting champ is going to beat the geeks every time.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
    2. Re:So many comments about the buzzer by Wyrd01 · · Score: 1

      > Jeopardy was a perfect challenge format given that Watson could make up for poor knowledge/bad logic with sheer speed.

      Except there is a distinct penalty for getting the question wrong. Simply buzzing in quickly does not win the game. You must also get the question right most of the time or you'll be in negative dollars and have no chance of winning.

      That Watson could buzz in quickly was a distinct advantage it had, being a machine, but it also had to parse the question text, figure out what was being asked for (accounting for any puns or other word trickery), search it's knowledge bank for something it thinks makes sense, and then buzz in, all in about 4 or 5 seconds.

      Yeah, there are some logical disconnects and room to improve, but this system is leaps and bounds above any other natural language processor I've ever seen. The fact that it can take in a Jeopardy question and actually figure out what is being asked for is amazing. It's not just a simple search algorithm, try typing a Jeopardy question into Google sometime. I don't think IBM has anything to be embarassed about. It's really not that easy to map our human level language processing abilities into a piece of software.

    3. Re:So many comments about the buzzer by PPH · · Score: 1

      try typing a Jeopardy question into Google sometime.

      Which gets back to the question about knowledge acquisition and quality control. The acquisition process used by Watson is proprietary, so we don't know much about the training and tuning process. But I'm not sure if Watson, used as a search engine, would do much better than Google. With the web as a 'knowledge source', try asking the question "Where was Barack Obama born?" Or "Who destroyed the World Trade Center?"

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
    4. Re:So many comments about the buzzer by yhager · · Score: 1

      > try typing a Jeopardy question into Google sometime.

      Have you tried it? Most questions that Watson got right have the result in the title of one of the first three results (don't forget to add -jeopardy, to remove the noise from jeopardy archiving sites.

      --
      -- Yuval Hager yuval@avramzon.net
    5. Re:So many comments about the buzzer by Wyrd01 · · Score: 1

      > With the web as a 'knowledge source', try asking the question "Where was Barack Obama born?" Or "Who destroyed the World Trade Center?"

      Yeah, I definitely agree on this one. There is so much conflicting information out there you'd have to restrict Watson's queries to "the truth", which sounds unsolvable to me. They could try to do some weighting on how many links sites have and such, but that's no guarantee of truthiness.

      At this point it sounds like Watson is an expert system on trivia, where only provably factual information has been entered. If they opened it up to the internet and allowed it to think anything it finds there is the truth then I think we'd have to revoke its expert status.

    6. Re:So many comments about the buzzer by Wyrd01 · · Score: 1

      I wasn't saying Google would not return anything relevant, I was saying simply typing the literal question into Google and then reading off the title of the first result is almost never going to work.

      I tried it with the questions on this site: http://asunews.asu.edu/20101103_jeopardyquestions

      A few of the Google results do have the answer in the title of some of the results, but Watson still needs to understand what the question is asking for and have some way to know which piece to pull out:
      Jeopardy Answer: Pseudonym of labor activist & magazine namesake Mary Harris Jones
      Google Result 1: Book Nook Cafe - In the Public Domain (showing 1-43 of 43)
      Google Result 2: The Daily Bleed: A Calendar Better Than Boiled Coffee! History Mom...
      Google Result 3: Mother Jones: The Woman | Mother Jones

      It's easy for us to pick out the correct phrase from result 3, but Watson, if it were simply using Google, would still need some algorithm to understand that "Daily Bleed" is not right, that "Book Nook" is not right, that "History Mom" is not right, and that it only needs the first 2 words from result 3. That's the tricky part, understanding what is being asked for.

    7. Re:So many comments about the buzzer by yhager · · Score: 1

      > That's the tricky part, understanding what is being asked for.

      That's right. Don't forget that Watson was programmed for Jeopardy, not generic natural language understanding.
      I am pretty sure that by analyzing past questions Watson has so many patterns hard coded in it, so it can quickly devise what kind of information it is looking for, and cross it with a few other search results.

      --
      -- Yuval Hager yuval@avramzon.net
    8. Re:So many comments about the buzzer by PPH · · Score: 1

      At this point it sounds like Watson is an expert system on trivia, where only provably factual information has been entered.

      Which gets me back to the whole issue of knowledge acquisition. What the IBM people were willing to say about Watson's 'teaching' process was that it involved feeding the system thousands of books. So the training process appears to be one of natural language processing as well. Perhaps a much more interesting one than the 'Jeopardy Engine' that finally utilized this knowledge.

      Everyone is mesmerized by a machine's ability to kick human ass at recalling data or processing rules. But the whole 'where did the rules come from' question is all too often dismissed by some sort of intellectual hand wave. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
  84. What's Next For Watson? by stuffduff · · Score: 1

    I'd like to see Watson go head to head with Google. Intelligent search agents will replace today's search engines.

    --
    "Can there be a Klein bottle that is an efficient and effective beer pitcher?"
  85. Fascinating To Watch by DRJR · · Score: 1

    I watched some youtube videos of Watson in practice matches in front of a packed audience a day or two ago.

    I must say it was quite fascinating to watch. The sheer level of the technologies involved is just amazing, not to mention the complexities that link them together. I didn't realize some of them had advanced this far.

    I hope this will at least improve automated customer services lines. I dealt with one in the last year that kept asking me to speak allowed my ID but kept recognizing "H" as "8" no matter how clearly I spoke. Others ask me to speak my request, but, because I usually only call customer service when a non-standard problem occurs, the systems generally will not recognize what I'm asking and keep repeating themselves, and, if I ask for a live customer service representative, it will keep doing its darndest to keep me in the automated system. The need for live reps hasn't been replaced yet.

    My two cents.
    --Dave Romig, Jr.

  86. buzzer speed by slashdotjunker · · Score: 1

    Daniel Gruhl, an IBM researcher, gave a talk at Caltech on Tuesday where he expounded on the buzzer issue. He said that Watson uses a solenoid which can respond in 5-10 ms. He also said that Ken Jennings is capable of responding in less than 5 ms. He can respond quickly because he uses the audio to anticipate the signal.

  87. Turing Test will fall soon by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The Turing Test may not last much longer. In a recent competition with 5-minute typing rounds, a computer nearly hit the magic 30% success rate.

  88. How does Watson warm up? by Provocateur · · Score: 1

    Daisy, Daisy, give me your answer do. I'm half crazy all for the love of you.

    Why, those IBM research scientists! Up to their old tricks again! Better watch them from now on!!

    --
    WARNING: Smartphones have side effects--most of them undocumented.
  89. Implant... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Make me a useful cybernetic implant for $19.99 and I'll care. Good job, IBM.

  90. IBM Watson was on other game shows and series. by antdude · · Score: 1

    See this funny SlateV video: http://www.slatev.com/video/ibms-watson-untold-story/ ...

    Also, read TV.com's funny interview with IBM Watson: http://www.tv.com/qanda-with-watson-ibms-jeopardy!-playing-trivia-machine/story/25168.html ...

    A serious presentation on IBM Watson: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3G2H3DZ8rNc

    Good documentary by NOVA: http://video.pbs.org/video/1786674622/ ...

    GG, IBM Watson. :)

    --
    Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
  91. Three more funny videos ... by antdude · · Score: 1

    CNN shares a funny four minutes video showing a replacement for Andy Richter on Conan O'Brien late night show on TBS (mirror).

    Next Media Animation (NMA) has an one minute and eleven seconds YouTube video.

    Your ant overlord uploaded an one minute and 22 seconds Vimeo video from Late Night Show With David Letterman.

    --
    Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
  92. Not 'forgot' by Junta · · Score: 1

    The researchers intentionally ignored category literal name as they were more likely to get misled than helped by the category.

    Example, category of 'Country Clubs' referring to blunt weapons in various nations instead of places to play golf. Or 'Writers' having an answer with a writer name looking for a book name instead of the name of a writer.

    --
    XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
  93. Shnooore. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Shifting goal post? Uh I'm pretty sure the goal post has always been the Turing Test, and that was set before computers were invented.

    The Chinese room, etc. Besides, there are other issues. Really, the Turing Test as a goal post is mostly an uneducated popculture thing.

    1. Re:Shnooore. by HungryHobo · · Score: 1

      The Turing Test takes it's name from one of the greatest minds of the 20th century who proposed it.

      Half of those weaknesses are the sort of challenges leveled by those who have utterly missed the point.
      the only really good criticism is this:

      "Planes are tested by how well they fly, not by comparing them to birds."
      "Aeronautical engineering texts,do not define the goal of their field as 'making machines that fly so exactly like pigeons that they can fool other pigeons.'"

      ah the Chinese room. the pinnacle of bullshit.
      Asking which part of the room understands chinese is like asking what grain of sand knows math in a computer made from rocks.
      http://xkcd.com/505/

      Try the luminous room.
      "Consider a dark room containing a man holding a bar magnet or charged object. If the man pumps the magnet up and down, then, according to Maxwell's theory of artificial luminance (AL), it will initiate a spreading circle of electromagnetic waves and will thus be luminous. But as all of us who have toyed with magnets or charged balls well know, their forces (or any other forces for that matter), even when set in motion produce no luminance at all. It is inconceivable that you might constitute real luminance just by moving forces around!"

      for real information rather than the kind of bullshit spouted in the philosophy class of arts programs around the country try reading Artificial Intelligence: A Modern Approach chapter 26.

  94. Feedback by eddy · · Score: 1

    According to a documentary I watched before this aired, they DID put feedback in and specifically mentioned this very problem. I guess they either took it out (possibly because of time-constraints or even rules about live play), or it malfunctioned.

    --
    Belief is the currency of delusion.
  95. This is all? by Fishbulb · · Score: 1

    We created computers specifically to do math, which our sensory input-pattern-matching organ (aka "brain") is so horribly bad at that we have to memorize multiplication tables. Yet what do we do with them? Try to make the math machine simulate our meaty pattern-sensing pathways.

    Massive monetary and time investment on a computer that can figure out trivia. Why am I reminded of:
    FORD: Hey Marvin!
    MARVIN: What do you want?
    FORD: Give Zaphod a yell will you?
    MARVIN: Ahhh. Mind-taxing time again is it?
    FORD: Just get on with it.
    MARVIN: I’ve just worked out an answer to the square root of minus one.
    FORD: Go and get Zaphod.
    MARVIN: It’s never been worked out before. It’s always been thought impossible.
    FORD: Go and get -
    MARVIN: I’m going. Pausing only to reconstruct the whole infrastructure of integral mathematics in his head, he went about his humble task. Never thinking to ask for reward, recognition, or even a moment’s ease from the terrible pain in all the diodes down his left side. “Fetch Beeblebrox,” they say, and forth he goes.

  96. Re:buzz-in advantage by rhendershot · · Score: 1

    that's just simply fascinating. thanks!

  97. Re:Watson's buzzer technique is elephant in the ro by brillow · · Score: 1

    I found it endlessly fascinating. The ability that a computer could answer any of those questions as they were posed was astounding, with careful observation you could also see it changing its strategies as it played. I was rapt the whole time. The only thing I was bored was by all the IBM propaganda which kept interrupting the game. I could watch that computer answer questions all day.

  98. It's just the cooling fan whining by albamuth · · Score: 1

    Yes, it is all about natural language parsing, but I think the most interesting feat was actually the seeding of Watson's database. Millions of documents (books, wikipedia, scholarly articles) were "fed" into Watson which become it's knowledge base. So to me, it's not so impressive that Watson understand the questions, but is able to utilize human knowledge that is in a natural-language form.

    I agree, it's not an attack on humanity. The PBS Nova episode about Watson explores the issues rather thoroughly, but the videos on IBM's site go into the technicalities a little better. The NOVA ep does do a good job of comparing Watson to competing AI programs out there, though.

    I find it exciting that a Watson-like program will eventually be able to answer technical questions for people (like doctors) who don't have time to scan through the thousands of scholarly articles of latest research -- you know, applying Watson's capabilities to a realm that humans need help in.

    How long will it be before IBM puts up an "ask Watson" web page, I wonder?

    --
    [pink beam of light]
  99. Anyone know of a open source project like Watson by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I want a Watson for my Android. I know the messaging protocol is an Apache project, but are there any open source groups attempting to put one of these together? I don't need the speech recognition or the buzzer controller :)

  100. Watson's Jeopardy win, and a reality check on AI by thisisauniqueid · · Score: 1