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Bradley Manning Charged With Aiding the Enemy
Hugh Pickens writes writes "The Washington Post reports that the army has brought twenty-two new charges — including the Article 104 offence of 'aiding the enemy' that carries a potential death sentence — against Pfc. Bradley E. Manning, a former intelligence analyst accused of leaking hundreds of thousands of classified military and diplomatic documents to the anti-secrecy Web site WikiLeaks. The new charges, filed under the Uniform Code of Military Justice, include wrongfully causing intelligence to be published on the Internet, knowing that it will be accessed by the enemy, that US officials have asserted could put soldiers and civilians at risk. However the prosecution has notified Manning's attorneys that it will not recommend the death penalty and the charge sheet, like the original set of accusations, contains no mention by name of the enemy to which the US military is referring. Manning's supporters reacted to the new charges with dismay. 'I'm shocked that the military opted to charge Pfc. Bradley Manning today with the capital offense of 'aiding the enemy,' says Jeff Paterson, project director of Courage to Resist, which has raised money for Manning's defense. 'It's beyond ironic that leaked US State Department cables have contributed to revolution and revolt in the Middle East, yet an American may be executed, or at best face life in prison, for being the primary whistleblower.'"
Manning sold out his own country for nothing more than self-satisfaction. I'm glad to see him getting charged with aiding the enemy.
I hope he gets the death penalty.
Rules are made for a reason. He knew the rules. He did the crime, and he's going to do the time.
And I don't believe for a second that 1) he was doing this for some higher cause, more like blatent teen narcissism; or that 2) disagreeing with a law morally entitles somebody to break it.
I hope he gets his arse kicked.
That "enemy" being the American people.
It'll be interesting to watch the prosecution try to weasel out of this simple question.
Something bad is coming when people are suddenly anxious to tell the truth.
did anybody think he would get off with a warning? at least the prosecutor said he would not seek the death penalty. guess the US doesn't want a martyr's blood on its hands.
If there's one thing the business of government will not tolerate, it's competition -- especially when that competition exposes government as the incompetent, self-serving elite which they are. The plain fact is that Manning and Wikileaks did what government could not -- and in the process exposed their corrupt objectives -- and now the elite at the top of the pyramid are absolutely fuming.
I don't know if there's anything I enjoy more than watching the power pyramid squirm with jealousy and embarrassment.
That's what you get for embarrassing the communist republicrat party. Freedom of speech, bah, if you embarrass the wrong people you don't have no right to it, it says it right there in the patriot act.
Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
Taliban?, Al-qaida? Wikileaks?. The Public Opinion?.
It does not matter what the content of the leak was or what supposedly beneficial effect it had. Breaking faith with your country and failing to follow orders cannot go unpunished.
Hes not going to get the death penalty, but he better get the book thrown at him and along with everything else AND the kitchen sink. on a side note.. with all the info he leaked what no info on the states having UFOs or stuff on the MIBs geez. at least leak something worth while to read.
Just as in the previous two Bush administration (this being the third Bush administration currently), the "enemy" is whoever is not "with us". Anyone who did not aid in invading Afghanistan or Iraq can be counted as an "enemy". Anyone who doesn't view tax breaks for the rich as the pathway to economic salvation is an "enemy". Anyone who uses a god-forsaken and wholly Un-American "socialized" single-payer health care system can be an "enemy".
Sure, Manning aided someone from at least one of those categories.
Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
Remember that to stand any hope of getting their sticky mits on Julian Assange they have to say
"honest, we sure ain't gonna shoot him".
UK extradition LAw (An afaik European as well) states that extradtition is not on the card where the death penalty is involved.
So Pfc Manning has to avoid the death penalty just so the judges over here can say, "off you jolly well go Mr Assange".
Then they sentence both of them to 999years without parole in Gitmo after a 30min sham trial in Cuba having given the EU two very big fingers and a dose of 'we don't care'.
then Pres Obama can tell the Americans, 'Job Done'.
YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE THRUTH
He provided raw operational and tactical data to groups shooting at his fellow soldiers and people cooperating with them.
"...'It's beyond ironic that leaked US State Department cables have contributed to revolution and revolt in the Middle East, yet an American may be executed, or at best face life in prison, for being the primary whistleblower.'"
The ends do not justify the means. The guy took a risk for his beliefs, and got called on it. Now he can go be the virtual martyr he wanted to be, by rotting in prison for the rest of his life.
I disagree, if you have clear evidence of a crime, you are obligated to disclose that information. If not by US law, then by the 'be a fucking human being' law. Let the courts sort it out later.
I have not read the leaked documents, so I can't comment about how many, if any, fall under the above.
as soon as they find one of themselves who can talk, or write, they will be submitting their list of intentions for US. they surmise of course, that as the by far highest # & most valuable of the population, they will not be dissed. there is a little more to it than that, but it might be a good idea to pay attention (which is very affordable, even in 'these times') to THEM, & possibly avoid a whole bunch more murder & mayhem as only we are able to conjure up. one thing is crystal clear. majority rules in this case, & their #'s are staggering. probably why they're so interested in being in crowds, helping us laugh, staying alive/undamaged, stuff like that.
It's amazing that even after so much corruption in government has been exposed, the common man simply brushes it off and reverts to blindly trusting authority. If that doesn't illustrate the power of indoctrination, I don't know what does.
While I applaud the new charges I am dismayed that they opted not to have him executed. If we get lucky we can expect that someone inside the prison will execute him for us after a long and thorough introduction to PMITA prison life. Pfft ... justice is strange though. He deserves a painful existence with a swift but equally painful execution but will likely be put up in some supermax solitary confinement, safe, sound and forgotten.
Hopefully they can get a hold of the wikleakers and have them charged too.
Hurricane Island Outward Bound
OB
Failing to name "the enemy" is standard military procedure. Referring to them by a name would humanize them more than a generic noun like "the enemy" would.
http://alternatives.rzero.com/
How could his supporters possibly be "shocked"? They are dimwitted as he if they cannot see the connection. This guy has committed treason, any country has very very stiff penalties for such an action. However, it is curious the accusation completely ignores just "who" the enemy is; though that should be obvious and I do not mean Wikileaks.
My karma is not a Chameleon.
And the highest rule is: uphold the constitution and protect america from enemies foreign and domestic.
If keeping the rule about shutting up breaks the constitution or aids domestic enemies of american people to get away with, literally, murder, he goes with the conscience.
The war crimes that the USA signs up to also insists that a serving member of the millitary must refuse an immoral command or become equally liable.
PS WHAT enemies did he help?
Wow, a lot of dumb posts for this article. I'm not a lawyer of military justice, but releasing sensitive classified documents onto the internet is certainly, in layman's vernacular, "aiding the enemy". We are currently fighting two actual declared hot wars, and we have enemies in each of those, and in each of those the enemies gained operable knowledge they otherwise wouldn't have. How is that NOT aiding the enemy?
To me it is a plain case of treason and capital punishment seems reasonable, but a life sentence could also be reasonable if the prosecution is feeling generous.
A mere forty years ago a great whistleblower did his work and risked all, but did not get placed in brutal imprisonment and danger of death for putting his country's moral character to a test, and even a corrupt President would voluntarily resign upon the revelation of his lawbreaking. I speak of course of Danny Ellsberg and President Nixon.
Anyone who could become privy to what Pvt. Manning did, that is that the USA conducts thinly veiled torture with electric shock, waterboarding, psychological torture, and that it renditions prisoners to regimes like the recently deposed one in Egypt which engage in blatant torture including drills,
anyone who could see that this is a blatant exercise of power meant to subdue the disadvantaged of the world and mold the economics to the advantage of America's elite to the detriment of everyone else, including future generations,
anyone who could see the brutality of willful shoot-ups of civilians and journalists by snickering, racist Apache gunship crews,
anyone who could see the contravention of international law and agreements we are assigned to and to which our national honor is affixed by deliberate scheming,
anyone who could see that the nature of our government's policies is hidden, distorted, or misrepresented to its constituents
and hold their peace, working in silent assent to atrocities, and not speak out, would have been convicted at Nuremberg, would have made themselves directly share responsibility for monstrous crimes, and would be no guardian of liberty or law, but a tool to those who corrupt both. If the letter of the law is all that is right and Bradley Manning is a criminal for blowing the whistle on the corrupt exercise of power, then everyone who signed the American Declaration of Independence ought to have hung too, and apologies are due for this nation's existence altogether with its rights and wrongs, and a ridiculous and futile exercise - thus the powers that would have Manning punished are discredited.
They who would sacrifice essential freedom for a little security will gain neither, and lose both, quoth Ben Franklin.
They who would sacrifice basic humanity and law for obedience to tyrants are heirs to tyranny and the stain that brings, and none of the things that have ever made this country worth fighting for. We'll need more people like Manning to get our country back from the plutocrats and propaganda that have already plundered its wealth for their wars.
Whistleblowers fit this basic description:
1) They see a specific act of crime or a whole culture of crime.
2) They see what their options are for working within the legal system to address it.
3) They gather the evidence needed to prove their case.
4) They release it to outside sources if they can't work within the system.
What Manning did:
1) Couldn't deal with Don't Ask, Don't Tell.
2) Got very angry at having to be a closet homosexual, even though the military is generally not interested in punishing people who are "discrete homosexuals."
3) Grabbed 250k pages of documentation from a classified network.
4) Dumped it on the public.
His supporters are being emotional nutjobs about this. He did what he did as an act of revenge against a policy he disliked. There was no "crime" for him to reveal, no unethical behavior, and he certainly did not try to either work within the system first or limit the amount of damage his leak would cause. It was indiscriminate in a "you screwed with me, so I'll screw you right back" way.
All he did was make it that much easier to tarnish legitimate whistleblowers and make their supporters look like unpatriotic people.
unless your smoking the same stuff which Krugman of the NYT is because he claims its because Obama is President and our audacity and courage to elect him empowered the people of the Middle East to revolt.
As for aiding the enemy, well, pick one. I am sure we can make one up if we need it. There were certainly documents and such that put the lives of many soldiers and civilians in danger but I understand how quickly many here dismiss them. Its far better to portray it as Us vs The Man even though half the place is willing to hand over all rights and money provided they think someone else gets the shaft.
* Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
I note that opinions expressed in support of the charge are marked as trolls, while opinions expressed in opposition to the charge are modded up.
I was wondering the same thing.
If anyone has any information to substantiate the claim of "It's beyond ironic that leaked US State Department cables have contributed to revolution and revolt in the Middle East" I'd like to see it.
Purely curious here. I feel like I missed something huge.
The Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ) supersedes civilian law when dealing with members of the Armed Forces: Army, Air Force, Navy (Marines included here, even though they hate being told that they're in the Navy :P ) & Coast Guard.
When enlisting or accepting a commission, you swear an oath to uphold all of these laws and much, much more. You forgo your Constitutional rights -- this is one of the reasons that military service is considered making a sacrifice. You accept a new set of rights which are outlined in the UCMJ. What a Private First Class thinks is of no concern -- Privates are for doing, Sergeants are for making sure things are done, and Officers are for thinking (in a nutshell). His only obligation is to follow the lawful orders given to him by his seniors.
Whenever something is done by a Soldier, it is often covered by multiple Articles of the UCMJ. For example, mouthing off to a senior NonCommissioned Officer may violate the following:
Article 91. Insubordinate conduct toward warrant officer, noncommissioned officer, or petty officer.
Article 92. Failure to obey order or regulation.
Article 117. Provoking speeches or gestures.
An interaction as simple as "Private Smith, take out the trash." -- "Fuck you Sergeant Jones!" is clearly more complex than one guideline, and is that NCO or Officer's duty to interpret and punish accordingly.
The same laws which protect the United States and its allies also protect each service member. He will receive a fair trial through Courts Martial, and may be found guilty or not. If he has been found to (intentionally or unintentionally) disclose sensitive or classified information, he will pay accordingly. Each charge will be looked at both individually and collectively as to its intent and results. The military takes care of its own.
What else can happen when an unstoppable force collides with an immovable object?
'I'm shocked that the military opted to charge Pfc. Bradley Manning today with the capital offense of 'aiding the enemy,' says Jeff Paterson, project director of Courage to Resist, which has raised money for Manning's defense.
I fully expected the prosecution to throw the book at Manning. Waving the threat of capital punishment serves as a great way to make future Mannings think twice before replicating his actions. (or at least to remain sensibly quiet about doing so)
This has been asked-for many, many times on /.
Nobody here ever makes the effort to substantiate this claim.
However, lots and lots of people here repeat it, nonetheless.
"if someone has something you want, make them the Enemy".
seems to me there are no leaks, a leak would happen before the Action takes place, which could change outcomes, put people in danger and be a traitorous act.
all the stuff I seen on WikiLeaks came after the Fact, exposing governments cover ups, Crimes, untruths and wrong doings. now I understand not wanting to get caught by the people that governments are lying too and should be working for and governments being afraid the people will force it out of existence (which really needs be done)... a government afraid of being open and honest should be shut down.
Let's see, we've got a disgruntled Army private violating the laws of the country he's sworn to protect, funneling classified documents to an anti-Semitic accused rapist. Leave it to slashdot to advocate for criminals.
WTF is going on with people? He's now in detention, can he still leak documents? Then why the hell are you treating him like he's a threat to all human beings? Damn the US authorities.
Everyone who has ever been granted a security clearance understands what the consequences of disclosing classified information to unauthorized parties. If he didn't think he would get caught, well that's his problem. History is full of people serving life sentences or given the death penalty for unauthorized disclosure or espionage (Lonetree, Ames). He did the crime, he must face the consequences.
He fought The Law; The Law Won.
Some people think that he's guilty because he was charged. Some people think he's innocent because he was charged. I think I'll let the due process play out.
Or is it wither, Obama? It's past due for the US alleged "commander in chief" to emerge from his bunker and put an end to this demented travesty.
This is just typical of a nation of hypocrits that could not organise a pissup in a brewery after 10 years of teaching.
Someone exposes what a bunch of tossers the government is and the government threatens to carry out murder to create silence
Nuff said know what i mean
Manning is accused of creating pretty much all major US military leaks published in 2010. Within months of these leaks which focus on the Middle East to a great part, a cascade of popular revolts sweeps through most Middle Eastern nations.
Naturally, the promotion of actual democracy in these nations threatens the strategic position of the US as the sole bringer of Iraq-style "freedom". It's hard to force a regime change in democratic countries (well, the US did that during the cold war, but that was before the internet). Freedom in the Middle East is the enemy. Manning and Wikileaks aid the enemy.
That's news to me. Please enlighten us: exactly when did congress formally declare war as the constitution requires? Oh, that's right -- they haven't actually declared a war since WW2. Stop spouting bullshit.
I was wondering the same thing.
If anyone has any information to substantiate the claim of "It's beyond ironic that leaked US State Department cables have contributed to revolution and revolt in the Middle East" I'd like to see it.
Purely curious here. I feel like I missed something huge.
It is my understanding that the dirty little secrets did, in fact help break the camel's back at Tunisia. Not because they revealed any great State Secrets, but simply because they provided confirmation of what everyone believed all along - that there's an awful lot of corruption in international relations and that it works to the benefit of corrupt leaders and despots. For example, it's been pretty much a given that all a Fidel Castro-type revolutionary had to do to receive buckets of cash and arms from the USA was to declare that he was Anti-Communist. Seeing actual mechanisms in play, however, was just too much.
WikiLeaks didn't single-handedly start the dominoes falling for freedom anymore than Twitter did. The dominoes were set up long ago. They just provided the extra fuel to the fire.
(No, I refuse to use the euphemism "capital punishment").
Seems your nick-name ("myopic") is well-chosen, then :-(
Will some one give him a Code Red?
If he felt that his action was morally necessary, he must accept the potential consequences.
Truly gross amounts of information that should be in the public domain are classified by the US gov't. Some of us are working to change that system. Going 'vigilante' and deciding to release that information yourself (and let's assume he did it for moral reasons, and not primarily attention-whoring), well, you play the game and take your chances.
I know if I or someone I knew was put in danger by their names being leaked, I'd want the death penalty, too.
I'd be curious how many of his "free information!" supporters were faux-outraged by the 'leaking' of Valerie Plame's former covert status? (ie motivated primarily by politics, not ethics)
-Styopa
The cables weren't the reason, but they *were* the catalyst.
The unrest started in Tunisia as protests against the ruler's immediate family who were making out like bandits. The corruption had long been known about (it wasnt subtle) but the spark was the wikileaks release which showed a bunch of cables from US embassy in Tunisia that detailed the corruption. http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2011/feb/02/wikileaks-exclusive-book-extract
The government responded by shutting down wikileaks access which resulted in Anonymous group taking action against official Tunisian government sites and defacing them (with the same cables, amongst other things) which also had a pronounced and under reported effect on people's urge to actually protest.
So, Bradley Manning has probably done more to unleash the wave of democratization hitting north Africa than any other single individual. That doesn't make what he did legal but if everyone stuck to what was legal, we would all be living as serfs to feudal barons.
http://rareformnewmedia.com/
Damage/problems created by Manning's activities are not necessarily the same as any damage due to posting wiki-leaks. I wasn't thinking of Wikileaks in particular. They released a subset of the data but Manning actually downloaded a lot more than that. The entire data set will/has make it into the wild.
I wouldn't be so sure of that.
Hang the son of a bitch.
Yep - one man with a match and some gasoline is the reason for the current unrest, protests and rebellion. And to think that the Al Qrapola spent all these years blowing people up, raping, torturing, dismembering people, blowing up mosques, funeral processions, schools to try to get the same thing to happen. One match and a dollar of gasoline - that's all it took.
My understanding is that the cables showed the level of duplicity in certain regimes and that that contributed to the final straw that broke the camel's back. Though I've also read commentary that said it was the Fed's policy of exporting inflation that was the real tipping point, so who knows? We're much too close to the action, historically speaking, to have enough perspective on the whys and wherefors.
God invented whiskey so the Irish would not rule the world.
As with any case, the purpose for punishment is not to "get even" or any nonsense like that. It is to set a precedent that will deter the next asshole who thinks about doing the same thing. Regardless of how you try to rationalize what Manning did, giving away state secrets to foreigners cannot be tolerated. It must result in execution now and every time it happens.
"throw a lot of stuff against the wall and see what sticks". It's a common tactic when one side has limitless funding and resources. Also called "Steamrollering". The Army's first set of charges were too weak and full of holes. As the wiki leaks story progressed (and stories of Manning's torture), the Army realized that they would lose if they went to court with what they had - none of their accusations held water. So they came up with as many charges as they could, and "re-charged" Manning. Trouble is, like the first set of charges, these are weak, too, but the Army is banking on "prosecution fatigue" where the court will get tired of wading through the prosecution's BS and pick SOMETHING that they can get a guilty verdict on. Let's hope Manning has good representation who sees through this and will stop this tactic in its tracks.
Republican leadership = Idiocracy
Some here feel that Manning is a traitor and hanging's too good for him. Some here feel that the guy is a hero, and should be awarded the Nobel Peace Prize.
There are many arguments for and against. Regardless, Manning is only so far CHARGED with various "crimes". I haven't seen that the prosecution has any actual evidence to convict.
Consider the financial meltdown for a moment. Do you realize that NO ONE has gone to jail for that? Nobody. Nada (don't reply about Madoff, that's not related).Sure, there were some guys from Bear Stearns that were charged, but the convictions didn't happen because the prosecution couldn't convince a jury, because they just didn't have enough evidence.
Lately, prosecutors haven't even been pursuing charges unless they are sure they can make it stick. Of course, the military is different in that they think they can railroad anyone they like, to make an example and keep the rest of us in line. But the truth is, when Manning comes to trial, the prosecution may have a hard time making the case stick.
In the meantime, put the noose away and give the dude a little more breathing room. After all, we are supposedly living in a country where you are innocent until proven guilty. Unless you guys with the noose in your hands want to change that about the "land of the free" as well.. Yeah America. You're number one.
If telephones are outlawed, then only outlaws will have telephones.
Way of the new world, folks.
It's spineless brown-nosers like you that are part of the problem - traitors to the people.
Manning is a hero, he should get a Nobel Prize at least.
Unless they can prove that Manning deliberately intended to aid the enemy, the charge won't stick. If intent were unnecessary, they'd have to also charge Rumsfeld with aiding and abetting, since his bungling and obfuscation of fact did more to aid Al Caida than any terrorist ever will.
Apparently the gov't need to put the fear of God into the PFC. Probably their case is weaker than they hoped, probably because they're unable/unwilling to reveal background evidence that's necessary to prosecute their principal indictments.
After all, what we're talking about is the ultimate oxymoron: Military Justice.
But the results speak for themselves. In one fell swoop, Manning and Wikileaks have done for the rest of the middle east what thousands of American soldiers' lives and trillions of dollars were lost trying to do for Iraq and Afghanistan.
So yeah, charge Manning up the wazoo on anything you can come up with, but Obama should pardon him as a show of thanks from a grateful nation and world.
THANK YOU BRADLEY MANNING! A TRUE MODERN HERO!
> more to unleash the wave of democratization hitting north Africa than any other single individual
Sorry, I meant to add, except for the guy who set himself on fire.
http://rareformnewmedia.com/
Hey, fucking moron...yeah, I'm talking to you. Krugman never said that. So what shit are you smoking? Given your level of idiocy, I'd say you're huffing paint fumes.
Maybe PFC Manning is guilty of a crime, maybe he isn't. Either way, this is obviously a big deal to the DoD, among others. Why is no going after the policy-and-decision makers that created an environment such that a lowly PFC could take and leak so much sensitive data?
He fully expected to spend decades in a Federal prison for releasing the Pentagon Papers and was fully prepared to do so.
That he did not was a result of gross misconduct by the Nixon administration resulting in his charges being thrown out
If your children ever found out how lame you are, they'd murder you in your sleep
Yes the enemy. Hmmm...you mean the enemy like those innocent people in the video on youtube being shot from an attack helicopter??? The real enemy to the US government is it's own people finding out the truth about what their government is up to. What you talkin bout Willis? I'm talking about shielding those in power taking kickbacks to push laws and wars that screw ordinary citizens just so they can support their friends and own high lifestyles. The TRUTH...you can't handle the TRUTH!
onsidering the nature of what was allegedly done, and the position held by the defendant, I think it's perfectly reasonable to go for the maximum punishment. IMHO, It really doesn't matter what the documents were that were leaked. Hell, they could have been a top secret souffle recipe, and I would still want to see the offender properly prosecuted!
P.S. Mmm, souffle. http://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/alton-brown/cheese-souffle-recipe/index.html [Food Network – Alton Brown]
P.P.S. Maybe I shouldn't have skipped breakfast this morning...
My sausage tree didn't grow, does that make me a bad mommy?
Dude is guilty, dude needs to stand trial and stay in prison if found guilty. Divulging secrets when you are in a position of trust is a serious matter, Manning did put lives in danger, might have directly had people murdered because of his actions. And if that is the case he needs to face the death penalty for his crimes. He very well may have decided to impose his own version of morality by his actions, the problem for him is that the world does not revolve around him and his decisions and actions will face the rules made for the rest of us.
Enjoy your Karma, after all you earned it. Feel your Karma Joe, feel it burn.
Interesting read. Thanks!
You're right the danger to soldiers and citizens is easily dismissed, because its fairly obvious those are not real concerns of our foreign policy.
1) Soldiers volunteered. If they don't want to die for shallow and vain reasons they chose the wrong occupation. Shit for a long time we sent them into battle unarmored.. Sounds like a really important resource to me... Meat shields.
2) It overlooks the fact that the primary danger to our soldiers is the occupation of enemy territory. And the primary danger to citizens in occupied territory is from the war we wage. It's a bit hypocritical don't you think then to chide leaked documents for "putting lives at risk"?
It doesn't matter that the leak had results that may have been positive. I might be on Manning's side if his intention had even been whistleblowing in the first place, but it was actually just self-aggrandizement, same as that prick Assange. For that, he needs to be made an example of. Breaking one of the most important laws there is for fame comes with a steep price.
This.
That and the government has spent so much time on the investigation they will find it difficult to discard charges.
He will be fortunate if released prior to his 40th birthday.
There is one lucky golden ticket to his release Put your coffee or any other beverages down ( wait for it..) The Nobel Prize.
Do i owe you a keyboard???
Has anyone considered that he will face the consequences of his actions (you know, like an adult) because he simply thought his country's ideals were that important? He would have understood better than any civilian the consequences of going up against the US military's torture regime and show trials. Manning made the world a better place even knowing the abuse he would suffer after being caught.
The prosecution in the case will not recommend the death penalty, so you can breathe easy there. It's not like they're tone-deaf to how bad an execution would look to the world in this case. Prosecution will, however, not be hard-pressed at all to prove the charge of aiding the enemy, since under the Uniform Military Code of Justice, Article 104 (2), his offense is as follows:
"(2) without proper authority, knowingly harbors or protects or gives intelligence to or communicates or corresponds with or holds any intercourse with the enemy, either directly or indirectly;
shall suffer death or such other punishment as a court-martial or military commission may direct."
WikiLeaks could very well be used as the prosecution's evidence for an indirect transmission of intelligence to a foreign enemy, and Manning knowingly posted intelligence to the site. As much as passive citizens are using the site, you cannot pretend like enemies with active grudges against the United States didn't at least drop by once or twice. As far as people asking "what enemy will they prove?", that doesn't have to be specific. That's all they need to prove the charge. You can always hope that a future administration will grant him pardon, but at this point, I don't see a way he's getting out of these charges.
This post just smears him, making a ton of assumptions/accusations about his reasoning, based on nothing, when Manning himself (in the chat logs) described his reasons for releasing the information:
"Lamo: what's your endgame plan, then?. . .
Manning: well, it was forwarded to [WikiLeaks] - and god knows what happens now - hopefully worldwide discussion, debates, and reforms - if not, than [sic] we're doomed - as a species - i will officially give up on the society we have if nothing happens - the reaction to the video gave me immense hope; CNN's iReport was overwhelmed; Twitter exploded - people who saw, knew there was something wrong . . . Washington Post sat on the video David Finkel acquired a copy while embedded out here. . . . - i want people to see the truth regardless of who they are because without information, you cannot make informed decisions as a public.
if i knew then, what i knew now - kind of thing, or maybe im just young, naive, and stupid . . . im hoping for the former - it cant be the latter - because if it is were fucking screwed (as a society) - and i dont want to believe that we’re screwed."
http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2010/12/14/manning
What the fuck is going on to get slurs like this modded up so high? Is the moderating system being abused?
Anyone else notice the tags change from having "republicans" to having "democrats" in the list?
What is with that?
while(1) attack(People.Sandy);
The military has laws which make it very illegal to do what Manning allegedly did. At the time he allegedly released the documents, he was sworn to obey those laws. Assuming for a moment that he is indeed guilty, he should have to pay the price for his actions. As for whether or not his act was noble, that is for history to decide. Most heros pay a high price to earn that label. Often the price is their life.
Having a bookmark to Google does not make you an expert on everything.
his NAME is Mohamed Bouazizi
In Project Mayhem, you are awarded a name when you are captured or killed.
You think it a coincidence that Allstate's current advertising campaign revolves around Mr. Mayhem?
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
The POINT is that the elite at the top of the pyramid did a run-around on the constitution in order to make it happen. Why? Because they KNEW that they couldn't make the war happen using the formal process of declaration as the constitution requires -- because at the bottom of it all, the wars are unjust.
When they've got billions of dollars on the line, and the one thing standing in their way is the supreme law of the nation, what does the business of government do? They route around the supreme law of the nation. There's a reason why the constitution has been mitigated by the elite to mere "suggestions" rather than laws -- because the business of government is infinitely more profitable when there are no limits to what they can do.
I am all for people being held responsible for their actions, be it government officials or any one else.
Manning, a former intelligence analyst, should have known better. End of thought. Sometimes
intelligence is not what it seems.
"(2) without proper authority, knowingly harbors or protects or gives intelligence to or communicates or corresponds with or holds any intercourse with the enemy, either directly or indirectly; shall suffer death or such other punishment as a court-martial or military commission may direct."
When you get a security briefing, such things are made apparent to all. He was apparently not listening or selectively listening. If it
was the latter, he deserves whatever he gets. If it was the former, he is not a candidate for the kitchen police. How did this person
get any clearance? Should not the people who granted this clearance be held accountable also, on an equal basis?
Simply put, the claim that Manning exposed corruption can't save him. If he had only exposed corruption, he'd be golden. Whistle-blower laws would have protected him. Probably would have had his life turned upside down for a while, but come out the other side.
But he didn't just expose corruption. He also chose to release unrelated documents that he shouldn't have. He left himself wide open for prosecution doing that. The law doesn't look at two acts and balance them. You can be a saint of a person, helping the poor for decades, etc etc. Kick one of them in the nuts and you still go to jail for assault. The law doesn't go "Hey, you've been a good guy, we'll look the other way on this one."
Now he can hope that the judge(s) will take the sum of his deeds into account and have mercy, but that's unlikely. The judges can rationalize it as "You discounted the harmful side-effects of your actions. Therefore we will discount the helpful effects."
As for "aiding the enemy", it will be an easy argument for the prosecution to argue. There doesn't have to be any actual aid or enemy. They just have to show he had reason to believe it could aid the enemy. Not "believe", "reason to believe". His reason to believe? He would have been told releasing documents could aid the enemy. Doesn't matter if he accepted that reason or not, he was given that reason. He just had to be told divulging the documents could aid the enemy.
Even if not told, he was releasing secret documents which by definition are not released so as to not aid the enemy. What enemy? Doesn't matter. Doesn't even matter if the enemy was real or hypothetical.
He's screwed.
The world is made by those who show up for the job.
If you engage in an illegal war, invade a couple of countries, kill hundreds of thousands of innocent people, break US law, violate the constitution, and completely ignore international law, including the Geneva convention treaties put in place after the atrocities of WWII, and you THEN proceed to cover it all up, there's nothing wrong with what you're doing, and you are even considered heroic and patriotic, and nothing happens to you except maybe getting more funding.
However, if you BLAB about it and release documents that PROVE it, THEN you're a horrible, horrible person who needs to die.
God, the people in this country are fucking stupid.
Exactly what enemy are they referring to? Them? Adjusts Tinfoil hat.
He's not a whistleblower... he's a traitor.
That's what happens when civilians try and push their frame of reference on the military. You're better at sitting in a Starbucks coffee shop talking about how things would be different if you were running the country (or coach of a sports team).
Reality is, it wouldn't be better... and you can't understand what politics and military are really about. I know, you think you do... but you really can't.
Btw, we won't know if the revolution in the middle east is good or bad for years to come. You say it like it's a good thing, but you have no way of knowing that yet. We could be looking at new Irans, etc given a few years for this to sink in.
Once again, people make alot of assumptions based on their frame of reference in life. Those often don't turn out to be accurate.
The data faucet needs to be available to all those that might even remotely need it. Never mind that it will flood the house one hundred times to stop a single destructive fire. They can always easily jail or hang the careless or malicious person.
Dear Bradley is doomed. send a few dollars to his prison can-tine account he will appreciate it.
First, Manning was a PFC in the Army, not a private citizen, and there wasn't a draft on, so he enlisted. When you enlist, you essentially concede the rights you might have as a private citizen where those rights are superseded by military law. You essentially sign away most of your rights when you join the military, and allow yourself to be held to a different standard of conduct than civilians. So the guy had an obligation to treat classified information as such, and not dump it out into the public realm in the name of whatever.
Second, let's say that there's this huge paper trail of horrible things that the State Department and the Department of Defense has on record that would make any right thinking human being cringe, and that justice demands sees the light of day. Does it seem likely that, after nearly ten years and any number of the horde of intel analysts that work in the military and have seen these documents, only one guy does anything? What seems more reasonable: that a PFC, the lowest rank in the Army IIRC, with a beef and an inferiority complex, gets bitter and decides to play Deepthroat, or; that a massive government conspiracy of hellish torture and insidious political manipulation across the globe is finally uncovered by the noble, dedicated efforts of Gomer Pyle. I mean, I know this is Slashdot, but take the tinfoil hat off for just a minute and think this through.
Third, what enemies? Well, there are the specific enemies such as al-Qaeda and various other terrorist networks and foreign nations that might want to use the information for propaganda or to target informants. There are also the enemies that we don't necessarily know about, meaning parties unknown which may want to use the information in these documents to harm the US or our allies.
Fourth, for someone who seems to have a fairly low opinion of the US, Mr. Paterson seems to have a wildly inflated sense of our influence over foreign peoples. Again, which seems more reasonable: that the release of documents which contain some candid opinions and interviews with regional leaders has inspired four (five?) separate revolutions in the Arab world, or; that dictatorial regimes which have been hamfistedly combating political dissent for decades have finally reached the breaking point. I mean, have you noticed how little the revolutionaries in these countries have mentioned the US or the west at all? We're not even on the radar, except in Libya where they'd like us to bomb Qaddafi again. Sorry, conspiracy theorists and neocons, this is mostly an in-house thing.
And finally, Mr. Paterson seems to believe that Manning should get a medal for inspiring a new Arab awakening. There's no reason to believe that any of the governments which may form (or reform) in these countries will ally themselves to the US or our interests. In fact, there's a good reason to believe that, particularly in Yemen, religious fundamentalists will dominate the political scene, which would not be an optimal result from an anti-terrorism point of view, and at the very least will be hostile to US and western interests. So don't give PFC "Lawrence of Arabia" Manning a medal just yet.
Here is Art. 104 of the Uniform Code of Military Justice: http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/uscode/10/A/II/47/X/904
Any person who - (1) aids, or attempts to aid, the enemy with arms, ammunition, supplies, money, or other things; or (2) without proper authority, knowingly harbors or protects or gives intelligence to, or communicates or corresponds with or holds any intercourse with the enemy, either directly or indirectly; shall suffer death or such other punishment as a court-martial or military commission may direct. This section does not apply to a military commission established under chapter 47A of this title.
Looks like the procecution will need to prove intent to assist those against whom we are at war.
I have a hard time being sympathetic. If there were some particular issue of malfeasance addressed by these documents then that's one thing. "Entity X has done something wrong and here are the docs to prove it." No problems. However I just can't believe anyone actually read 300000 documents before casting them into the wind. That goes for Manning and Wikileaks. They seem to think that every secret is something evil that needs to be exposed, which is just not true. All tech companies have proprietary info that they keep under wraps etc. If all secrets are bad, then I want Assange's personal info: credit cards, phone numbers, bank accounts and physical location tracking every 5 minutes. What is he trying to hide? He must be doing something bad!!!
Sorry, but gray text on gray background is making my eyes bleed.
You mean the warmonger Friedman, not the Nobelist Krugman.
There is no "certainly" that the released documents compromised any soldiers or our assets. Only 5000 documents of the 250K have been released, and they were redacted with the help of the news outlets that published them.
Well, apparently, you only have to fool the majority of people for a little while.
That's because the "enemy" the government is referring to is the public. They obviously can't admit that in a court filing.
Liberty in your lifetime
There were certainly documents and such that put the lives of many soldiers and civilians in danger but I understand how quickly many here dismiss them
Got a decent fer'instance? Even one single solitary document containing even one fact that you can demonstrate might have even theoretically endangered a single life?
Seems nobody else has managed that challenge yet. There were one or 2 half hearted attempts months ago, but the best they could do was documents showing where troops were many months before the release. They couldn't seem to find any cases where the troops were still where the documents said they were.
So there it is, show us here a single solitary instance where even one life might reasonably be believed to be endangered and we'll all quit dismissing the endangerment argument so easily.
contains no mention by name of the enemy to which the US military is referring.
The main motivation of Manning/Wikileaks has been to inform the public about the goings on in the Pentagon, State Department, and various theaters of war. And in that sense, they have succeeded. So I guess Walt Kelly said it best;
"We have met the enemy and he is us."
Have gnu, will travel.
Motivation is critical to many crimes. Heck, the whole concept of a mens rea which is fundamental to many felonies, is based on the state of mind and motivation of the individual.
Manning cannot attach a legally reasonable connection between his motivation and his chosen course of action which would motivate a non-brain dead jury to say "this man clearly acted to uphold the spirit of the law or protect the public."
If you don't get the difference between leaking specific documents that you know show clear criminal acts and dumping a volume of documents that would take a small army of readers to verify out of sheer spite, then you are the moron. The difference between that is the difference between shooting someone in self-defense under legally questionable circumstances and gunning down an entire public space while claiming you did public good because a few of the victims just so happened to have warrants for their arrest.
he was helping the US establishment in their [not so] covert battle against the citizens of the USofA. Funny, I thought he was fighting for the freedom of all USofA'ers.
Should we not start a fund to help him pay for an attorney?
If you can, just for a moment strop to imagine something...
In WW2 if a disgruntled PFC on the German front pulled a truck up to his office and proceeded to load the entire back end with every single sensitive document he could get his hands on, and then drove it across the the combat zone and delivered it to the Nazi's personally, then returned back to his unit and said "I have done this in the name of freedom to expose the evils of our government. Btw, that list included a list of vulnerable strategic assets critical to the success of the war but I'm sure Hittler will only look at the diplomatic cables." What do you think would happen?
Now, imagine this... instead of using a truck he found a way to get all 250,000 documents into the hands of every one... every German officer, soldier, Hittler himself, AND the Japanese... and you can't forget these papers include wonderful details like the US and UK's private discussions about the possible war with Russia as soon as Germany fell... lets Give that to Stalin. And when asked WHY he sent his papers to every single enemy in the world his answer is now "I felt the american people had the right to know!"
How is this in ANY way different from what he has done today? I have spent 4 years in Iraq as a soldier and contractor. I have seen personally the horrors that terrorists subject their own civilian populations to. I promise you Al Qaeda is every bit as bad as the Nazi's, and would love very much to kill every one of us on this topic. PFC Manning intentionally delivered as much sensitive information as possible to a venue where he knew EVERY enemy of the united states would have immediate unrestricted access to it. It is not necessary to say WHICH enemy because he gave it to ALL of them. The documents he delivered did in fact include lists of vulnerable strategic assets critical for NATO operations abroad and at home, that's not whistle blowing at all, it's not revealing a crime or mismanagement, fraud or abuse... it is intentional reckless endangerment of peoples lives. I am appalled at what he did and I am ashamed that anyone could possibly support his actions.
*IF* He had leaked information specific to crimes committed by this or any administration by identifying specific documents tied to those crimes and revealing them to enforce the moral standards we demand our leaders uphold, I could condone his actions. There are systems within the US Gov specifically designed for whistle blowing, but if he felt those were corrupted as well then I could understand his choice to release these sensitive documents to the public so that justice can be demanded... I would still send him to Court Martial because every action must be held accountable. Whistle Blowing isn't a crime, but publicly revealing classified information is. With a strong moral argument his sentence would be light, probably demotion and discharge from service. However, that's not in any way similar to what he did... instead of revealing evidence of abuses he released everything, knowing that some of it was of life or death significance. Sure, there are certainly crimes hidden away in those documents... all I've heard from them is a lot of diplomatic cables that should have been kept private, but I'm sure there may be a crime or two buried away, right next to the list of vital strategic assets.
He admits what he did and his only defense is "But it was the right thing to do... oh sorry, I hope you don't die because of it." I was in Iraq when he leaked the documents.
He wasn't forced into the military, he willfully joined up. So he knows the rules (he learned OPSEC on day one) and broke them anyway, which makes him a traitor. His actions endangered the lives of soldiers around the world and undermined their effort (regardless if you agree with it or not). It's an insult to anyone who has worn the uniform. But of course all you armchair warriors will disagree because you know nothing about what it's like to serve a single day let alone in combat, well except for maybe Call of Duty. Let me be clear, a soldiers life isn't a political pawn!
... contains no mention by name of the enemy to which the US military is referring
There isn't one in the War on Terror ;) They are everywhere, all around us, *lurking*
the rest of the US doing whatever the hell they want
You mean the US government doing whatever the hell they want. If recent events have proven anything, it's that the government and the people are NOT one and the same. (After all, if you were the same person running the government, then why do they need guns and a special right to use them against you?)
but that is how the government thinks about its citizens whats wrong with it being the other way around?
We've held him in jail without a trial and have tortured him every day of his imprisonment.
Now we want to kill him?
As a Democrat who hated Bush and voted for Obama, I'm noticing that Obama is going to very extreme measures to protect his secrets. I have to ask, what's so important that he needs to kill an American citizen to protect? Is this how we treat whistleblowers from a president who promised transparency and the "truth"?
Torture and murder. Thanks Obama, for doing Bush's job better than even he could.
Since this was leaked to the World, is the World now our enemy in the eyes of the military?
War is hell.
Which is exactly WHY you shouldn't enter it without just cause - which is exactly what we did. I have never seen a good reason as to WHY the US invaded Iraq.
Yes, we've been there a long time and some may say that is irrelevant now. But NONE of this would have happened if we a) weren't there or b) had any kind of how/when we were going to leave.
Amazing how that one horrible decision has led to so many others. It has cost this country, and others (among other things) loss of money, credibility, and lives.
My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.
US Government confirms that the US population is its enemy.
it was each citizen's duty to disobey illegitimate rules ?
paying your dues to aristocracy, was a rule back in 18th century. so was subjectship of the king.
i see you talking very comfortably and smugly, while enjoying the benefits of the rule-disobeying, your ancestors have done ?
isnt there a contradiction there ?
Read radical news here
So very true. I've posted the same thing a few days ago. Plus, the members of the military are overseas specifically to coerce and kill. That adds yet another layer of hypocrisy to the "OMG! think of human lives" argument.
and which 'lives' were these secrets saving ? the private cia contractors which ran torture camps ? those who aided kidnappings all over the world ? double agents which have been delivering wedding locations to cia so that cia strikes could kill hundreds while trying to kill a few random mid ranking commanders ?
precisely what lives were these secrets saving again ? these 'innocent' people who have consciously contracted with cia to effect murders, kidnappings, torture in exchange of money ?
dont give us bullshit.
Read radical news here
so, kkk was a majority back in 1930s ? or a local majority which was trying to go medieval on people ?
and, rule of majority, is tyranny ? so then, we should allow local tribes in south america and africa, to continue cannibalism tradition, which was banned ?
dont be a witless moron. there are moral and ethical standards at any given time. some rules and laws are set to observe these. you cant go saying 'majority is tyranny' and go about ritual sacrifice, or cannibalism, or lynching.
'state secrets' has not even been the want and desire of the majority. it was invented and perpetrated by government agencies, and the private interest backers placing their candidates in front of the people as multiple choices.
Read radical news here
Hang that mother fucker.
So you would agree that Bradly Manning is responsible for every single civilian death in Northern Africa (Tunisia, Egypt, Libya, etc.)?
And the "wave of democratization" is likely going to be usurped by already-organized groups with political aspirations in these areas. Note that the folks that actually started both the French and Russian revolutions were nice, friendly people that never envisioned what was going to come out the other end. My guess is that the only organized groups there are in these places are Islamic fundamentalists that will institute a pan-Islamic calphate. After all, the borders of these nations are completely arbitrary and have no basis in history or geography. So why wouldn't they unite?
I don't understand why this isn't more clear cut. He broke the law by releasing classified documents. If someone who worked for your billion dollar company suddenly decided that he was pissed off and would open-source all of your proprietary code, people shouldn't suddenly say that he is innocent. Now he's also in the military and the laws in the military are way more strict about doing anything harmful to your country. He broke the law and now he will be punished for it. Prosecuting Assange is a much less clear-cut case because it is unclear whether or not he broke a US law.
the reality is that it's infected the chain of command
Like all aspects of government, the military is controlled in a pyramid fashion from the top down, not the bottom up. Therefore it is not possible, or even logical, that corruption "infects" the chain of command from the bottom up. The elite near the top of the pyramid either choose for themselves whether to engage in corruption, or they are mandated to engage in corruption by yet even higher elites. But never do they "fall victim" to corruption from the bottup up.
If this is true, Obama his cronies needs to go, preferably be on trial for treason against THE AMERICAN PEOPLE and malpractice.
What a "change".. Get rid of your Godawful politicians already.
Because, in this case 'enemy' is people'. their own people. imagine - what would the people do with the information that their government is betraying country's ideals and hiding stuff through the wall of secrecy !! what blasphemy. what treason ! how could, 'the people' know what their government is doing !!!! outrageous ...
its rather impossible to come up and say 'hey, we are doing shit behind our people, and so we dont want them to know. so, our enemy is people'
Read radical news here
But, the question is, whether WE, as 'the people' have to accept that, or not.
let me tell you as one of those people - we dont. we own the government. not government us. government, cannot define what's right, or what's wrong, without us.
and i dont remember defining doing filthy shit behind country's back, and then hiding it behind a wall of secrecy, as an allowable act.
Read radical news here
Now we can stop moaning about how he has been held without charge for months in horrible conditions.
No doubt you would claim those 9 children obliterated the other day by Nato gunship crews were also "armed" as they would picking up wood for a cooking fire.
Damn the ENEMY, but they are sneaky, huh? Frankly, the "Apache community" should stand trial the way Lt. Calley once did, but we know that's not about to happen, especially not in the lawless rogue empire nation of the United Skynet Almagamated (USA).
Perhaps you are related to the vice-prez of the USA, Joey Bin Biden. No doubt we should seek his wise counsel on the matter, just as we wonder what he would say about whether Gadhaffi is an actual dictator, or even a psycho dictator, something which evidently appears to have caught our banksters, pharmaceutical lobbyists, Monsanto lobbyists, and Exxon-Mobil lobbyists, like Susan Rice and the other neocons on Obama's administration, completely by surprise!
We do know of vice-prez Joey Bin Biden's recent sage declarations: that Mubarrak of Egypt was "NOT a dictator" and that "Julian Assange is a high-tech terrorist" --- you go, Joey Bin Biden, man of many achievements (such as that op you were a part of, together with Anita Hill, to get Clarence Thoms seated on the US Supreme Court --- you go, Joey!!!!).
I've know a variety of military pilots over the years; some stalwart and of absolute integrity, such as Maj. Fritz Meyers, who refused to take the path of least resistance and retired early to publicly denounce the "official version" of the surface-to-air missile shootdown of Flight 800 (which the radar data, released some years later under an FOIA request, has proven).
But those Apache crews, and the Nato crews, aren't among them.
One can reasonably argue that the leaked cables was the match that lit the powderkeg. Wikileaks' revelation of the extravagance and corruption of the Tunisian governing elite is what motivated the Tunisians to finally revolt. That revolt would not have occurred if the strong desire wasn't already there, if there wasn't already a long history of simmering resentment. And Tunisia's revolution (or revolt if that's what you call a revolution as it's occurring) obviously motivated Arabs across the rest of the region to do the same.
There are many, many, actually countless, numbers of laws congress has and is now in violation of. The vast majority of them should be dangling at the end of a noose for crimes against the people.
> So you would agree that Bradly Manning is responsible for every single civilian death in Northern Africa (Tunisia, Egypt, Libya, etc.)?
Would you agree that Jesus is responsible for every death committed in the name of a Christian god? That Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, and George Washington are responsible for every death from every bomb dropped by a US plane or bullet fired by a US soldier?
> My guess is that the only organized groups there are in these places are Islamic fundamentalists that will institute a pan-Islamic calphate.
Rather than guess why don't you use the wonderful resource known as the Internet to educate yourself? As far as Egypt and Tunisia go, the people are fairly well educated and a lot of the necessary institutions for democracy are already there, as well as a strong sense of nationalism. The threat of Islamic fundamentalism is just the latest boogeyman, like the communists in the 1950s.
When the My Lai Massacre was first reported, a Col. Colin Powell, of Americal, was instrumental in covering it up.
Which is how those clowns reach general and admiral rank (see the background of douchey John McCain's father and grandfather).
Only after the gunship crewman became a civilian, and continued to pursue the matter did it ever reach the light of day.
But with endless duty and service in today's nonconscripted slave military, and partially-privatized, how could Manning know when, or if, he would ever be separated from service?
A lot of posters today simply can't locate their genitals....
You are confusing the rights of public and private entities.
Public entities report to their citizens, and should be transparent in their activies.
Private citizens and companies have should have certain rights to privacy.
46137
In case you didn't miss the next response to your parent, check it out: http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2020186&cid=35368210
He links to an article that answers your question: http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2011/feb/02/wikileaks-exclusive-book-extract
I'm sure if you looked you could find more articles that strengthen the association, but the cables definitely had an effect in confirming the Tunisians' suspicions about the extravagance and corruption of their ruling elite and pushing them further toward revolution. Maybe they would have revolted without the leaked cables, but the leaked cables definitely helped.
'It's beyond ironic that leaked US State Department cables have contributed to revolution and revolt in the Middle East, yet an American may be executed, or at best face life in prison, for being the primary whistleblower.'"
There's nothing ironic at all about the situation. The State department cables may contribute to revolution and revolt in the Mid East BECAUSE a traitorous American RELEASED them. If the American wasn't a TRAITOR, then those cables would never have come out, and perhaps we would not be seeing this level of turmoil right now.
I find it ironic how someone could totally misuse the word irony, and yet not perceive that it was a traitorous act that caused the situation to come about, NOT the mere existence of diplomatic cables, that have always had a Machiavellian nature since the dawn of statecraft.
There is no America. There is no democracy. There is only IBM and AT&T and DuPont, Dow, General Electric, and Exxon
Seriously - who exactly is the enemy? Everyone who isn't American? In my mind, at this point in time, the American government is clearly an enemy of the people.
BeauHD. Worst editor since kdawson.
That's a BS argument. He didn't release them for that point and probably had no idea what he was releasing.
If you opened fire on a crowed and happen to kill some wanted criminals by chance should you be forgiven for the incident?
I mean, they ousted a dictator in Tunisia for refusing to let him sell his goods. Then that inspired egyptians to rise against theirs in a relatively swift victory. Now we have one of the "Epic bad guys of the world" getting the boot in Libya as a consequence. Imagine they succeed, what would killing your own citizen for telling the truth bring along in America?
Oh wait, americans can't throw stones as they consider it a form of excercise...
Yeah, I saw one.
One of the cables talked about a wealthy fencer from a prestigious family from a specific city in Iran as being an informant to the embassy. Now, it didn't mention his name specifically, but come on, how narrow is that pool going to be? I also don't know if anything has come from it yet or will come from it, but it's pretty safe to say that this dude is less then safe. Maybe, I guess it depends what prestige gets you vs. the spy hunters in Iran.
That's the worst I've seen from the pile. But despite his possible risk, the good that the leaks have done far outweigh the bad. The USA is not immune to corruption or abuse, and sunshine is the best cure.
To be fair American spies around the world are now under investigation. i guess Americans should ask themselves if informing the American people and the international community of illegal actions the government is taking without the consent of the people is something that should be punished.
Manning is getting punished because he snitched on the American gang Government for breaking international law. the international community should put trade sanctions on America for their behaviour.
He may indeed be less safe, but not necessarily since harming him now would lend weight to his allegations.
That cable is odd in many ways. They seem to have done a lot of research into the informant including his hobbies, but they aren't really sure about the company he informed on. The best they could manage is a quick google? Couldn't they have asked him to be specific about the company?
Nevertheless it does meet the minimum requirement in that it could in theory endanger his life. I would like to see evidence of the 'many' military or civilians supposedly endangered.
Anyone who calls a unit of currency the 'loony' or 'toony' can't be taken seriously.
No one will see their attack coming.
Maybe you should read some history such as USA-Tunisian history, agreements and CLOSE cooperation the last 200+ years!
Tunisia was a very important ally and heavily backed by USA. Whatever corrupt government that was running tunisia it has 110% full support of USA.
04:55 Hotel Two-Six; Crazyhorse One-Eight.
05:03 Crazyhorse One-Eight; Bushmaster Seven. Go ahead.
05:06 Bushmaster Seven; Crazyhorse One-Eight. Uh, location of bodies, Mike Bravo five-four-five-eight eight-six-one-seven [military map grid reference].
05:15 Hey, good on the uh...
05:17 Five-four-five-eight eight-six-one-seven [map grid reference]. Over.
05:21 This is Crazyhorse One-Eight, that's a good copy. They're on a street in front of an open, uh, courtyard with a bunch of blue uh trucks, bunch of vehicles in the courtyard.
05:30 There's one guy moving down there but he's uh, he's wounded.
05:35 All right, we'll let 'em know so they can hurry up and get over here.
05:40 One-Eight, we also have one individual, uh, appears to be wounded trying to crawl away.
05:49 Roger, we're gonna move down there.
05:51 Roger, we'll cease fire.
05:54 Yeah, we won't shoot anymore.
06:01 He's getting up.
06:02 Maybe he has a weapon down in his hand?
06:04 No, I haven't seen one yet.
06:07 I see you guys got that guy crawling right now on that curb.
06:08 Yeah, I got him. I put two rounds [30mm cannon shells] near him, and you guys were shooting over there too, so uh we'll see.
06:14 Yeah, roger that.
06:16 Bushmaster Thirty-Six Element; this is uh Hotel Two-Seven over.
06:21 Hotel Two-Seven; Bushmaster Seven go ahead.
06:24 Roger I'm just trying to make sure you guys have my turf [area], over.
06:31 Roger we got your turf.
06:33 Come on, buddy.
06:38 All you gotta do is pick up a weapon.
06:44 Crazyhorse this is Bushmaster Five, Bushmaster Four break. We are right below you right time now can you walk us onto that location over.
06:54 This is Two-Six roger. I'll pop flares [drop flares]. We also have one individual moving. We're looking for weapons. If we see a weapon, we're gonna engage.
07:07 Yeah Bushmaster, we have a van that's approaching and picking up the bodies.
07:14 Where's that van at?
07:15 Right down there by the bodies.
07:16 Okay, yeah.
07:18 Bushmaster; Crazyhorse. We have individuals going to the scene, looks like possibly uh picking up bodies and weapons.
07:25 Let me engage.
07:28 Can I shoot?
07:31 Roger. Break. Uh Crazyhorse One-Eight request permission to uh engage.
07:36 Picking up the wounded?
07:38 Yeah, we're trying to get permission to engage.
07:41 Come on, let us shoot!
07:44 Bushmaster; Crazyhorse One-Eight.
07:49 They're taking him.
07:51 Bushmaster; Crazyhorse One-Eight.
07:56 This is Bushmaster Seven, go ahead.
07:59 Roger. We have a black SUV-uh Bongo truck [van] picking up the bodies. Request permission to engage.
08:02 Fuck.
08:06 This is Bushmaster Seven, roger. This is Bushmaster Seven, roger. Engage.
08:12 One-Eight, engage.
08:12 Clear.
08:13 Come on!
08:17 Clear.
08:20 Clear.
08:21 We're engaging.
You're arguing that in the heat of the moment these pilots didn't know what they were doing. The above audio transcript lays it out very clearly - that they did in fact know they were engaging a civilian vehicle and individuals who were trying to pick up the dead/wounded.
The 2011 "Manning Revolutions" the brought democracy to the middle east.
Not to mention the DOD already put out a statement saying the release of the files didn't put any of the soldiers or civilians at risk
Was destroying the left's (and maybe the right's) ability to think rationally and objectively. This thread is full of derp and whargarble defending a traitor who is getting exactly what he deserved.
Left, i am disappoint. /voted for Clinton, Gore, Kerry and Obama
Utilizing the synergization of benchmark e-solutions to pre-workaround action items!
So why is it so bad to leak those docs? If the leaks merely underscores what the US government thinks in private is what they say in public, why were the leaks decried as harming the diplomatic efforts of the US Government?
Either you're wrong, the government lying or a mix of both.
What the hell ever happened to fact? Truth is for religious people. For intelligent people, we work in things like Fact and theories. Truth is word that allows people to abuse theory by accepting unsubstantiated theory as fact.
On the other hand, I'll take truth if you toss in a bottle of 30 year single malt scotch and a playboy cover model. Then I should be too busy to bother with silly things like fact.
Subject says it all. Totally predictable and unsurprising.
Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
Just typical. They create the War and we are the one's who get the bullets.
Of course it's all about controlling us and getting us to cower in the face of
our enemies. I say expose the mongrels secrets and to hell with what happens.
This World is due for an Enema so that corruption can be eradicated. Our
various Government's should be afraid of Us!!