A Letter On Behalf of the World's PC Fixers

Barence writes "PC Pro's Steve Cassidy has written a letter on behalf of all the put-upon techies who've ever been called by a friend to fix their PC. His bile is directed at a friend who put a DVD bought on holiday into their laptop, and then wondered what went wrong. 'Once you stuck that DVD in there and started saying "yes, OK" to every resulting dialog box, you sank the whole thing,' Cassidy writes. 'It doesn't take 10 minutes to sort that out; it requires a complete machine reload to properly guarantee the infection is history. No, there is no neat and handy way I've been keeping secret that allows you to retain your extensive collection of stolen software licenses loaded on that laptop. I do disaster recovery, not disaster participation.'"

Comments

whine

[Xtravar]

The only reason people even want to talk to you is your tech skills. Be grateful you took 10 minutes away from your Pokemon collection to learn those skills.

Re:whine

[mkiwi]

Hey, Some of us play Magic: The Gathering. Don't lump us in with those pokemon losers!

Re:whine

[morari]

Hey, some of us play Call of Cthulhu! Don't lump us in with those Magic losers!

Re:whine

[spun]

You feel better about yourself now that you've insulted every geek and nerd in the place? Personally, I see an antisocial rant like this, I think "projection." And now you can't even get mad at me for insulting you, or you will look like a hypocrite.

Re:whine

[Wyatt Earp]

That was a very whiney "letter", its why some technology people sit at home in the dark on the weekends alone.

And home is Mom's basement.

Re:whine

[Locke2005]

It was a perfectly rational decision; I decided since I didn't have tits, I'd better learn tech skills or nobody would talk to me!

Re:whine

[Anonymous Coward]

My Mom is dead, you insensitive clod.

Re:whine

[chromas]

Don't you think it's about time you moved out, then?

Re:whine

[tinkerghost]

Don't you think it's about time you moved out, then?

Who will comb his mother's hair & make sure she's taken care of?
[cue shower scene]

Re:whine

[compro01]

No. What kind of idiot would sell a dwelling in this market?

Re:whine

[Anonymous Coward]

painfully true. there was once a girl i liked (no, i still like her). the only time we really talked was when she asked a "technical" question. what was that key combo (3-fingered salute) again to restart the computer? is this how you ...? and I'd launch into an overlong explanation of how there's another way to do it. but the minute we tried talking about something else there was a monosyllable or two, yes, no, an uncomfortable smile and then silence as she turned back to her terminal.

(i hope i ticked the anonymous button correctly. i hate this going into my record)

Re:whine

[secretcurse]

Your astounding rhetoric has convinced me. I now realize that Pokemon is the best thing in the world.

Re:whine

[Anonymous Coward]

Pull diglett out of your ass dude it was a joke.

Re:whine

[mug funky]

if only i could post slowpoke...

Re:whine

[Anonymous Coward]

[cue fapping]

Re:whine

[ComaVN]

Female: GO SUCK A GIRLS NIPPLE!!!

This is sound advice, no matter what your opinion about pokemon is.

Re:whine

[Anonymous Coward]

I herd you liek mudkips?

security though obscurity

[musikit]

while security though obscurity is not security it can be used as one pick of a larger puzzle to make it harder for possible infectors of your computer. i use 4 web browsers each with different security settings and plugins enabled to limit possible attack vectors.

Re:security though obscurity

[Anonymous Coward]

What? What is your point?

Re:security though obscurity

[micheas]

Actually, you may be increasing your attack surface, as only one of the four has to be vulnerable in order for you to get compromised.

It also depends on if you isolate each browser to certain websites, or all the sites you visit get each of the browsers with less frequency.

The idea that it is harder for attackers if no browser has 10% market share, is defeated if you use all 50 browsers to visit their website.

Re:security though obscurity

[Lazareth]

So essentially you have 4 angles of attack instead of 1, each with security settings deliberately set to something different instead of something, say, secure? Tell me again how this in any way would limit possible attack vectors. Actually, tell me if you even know what that word means.

Re:security though obscurity

[SudoGhost]

i use 4 web browsers each with different security settings and plugins enabled to maximize possible attack vectors.

Re:security though obscurity

[idontgno]

i use 4 web browsers

airplane rule: n.

"Complexity increases the possibility of failure; a twin-engine airplane has twice as many engine problems as a single-engine airplane."

By analogy, in both software and electronics, the rule that simplicity increases robustness. It is correspondingly argued that the right way to build reliable systems is to put all your eggs in one basket, after making sure that you've built a really good basket.

Jargon File

Re:security though obscurity

[Grishnakh]

While this doesn't apply to the fool running 4 browsers, having multiple engines is generally better than having a single engine in an aircraft, because of redundancy. It's just like RAID, in fact. Yes, your possibility of a failure is doubled with two drives or two engines, but all drives and all engines fail at some point, and by having two of them, catastrophe is avoided. With a single-engine aircraft, an engine failure can be disastrous if you can't find a good place to land in time. This is especially true in a helicopter where you have only a couple seconds to react properly and start an autorotation in the event of engine failure. With a dual-engine aircraft, however, you simply keep flying, albeit with much-reduced power. Now you can just fly back to your base and get the bad engine repaired, instead of hoping you can land safely on a road or in a field (you're screwed if you're over mountains).

Similarly, with RAID-1 using mirrored drives, your possibility of failure is doubled. However, if one drive does fail, you still have one good drive, and can keep working until you replace the bad drive. There's no downtime, and no data loss. If you only have one drive, and it fails, you have both downtime, and data loss (at least everything that's changed since your most-recent backup).

Redundancy costs a lot more, and increases failure probability, but makes things much easier when (not if) failure does occur.

It is correspondingly argued that the right way to build reliable systems is to put all your eggs in one basket, after making sure that you've built a really good basket.

Anyone who argues this way is a moron. No one's figured out how to make a basket that good; that's why redundancy is necessary. Our own bodies even have redundancy: lungs, kidneys, eyes, ears, etc. Even if you DO make a basket that's ultra-reliable, you never know what kind of damage it's going to suffer while in use. Aircraft engines, for instance, have a nasty habit of occasionally sucking in birds. Military equipment has to worry about people shooting at it. And other equipment sometimes has to endure conditions that weren't planned for: severe weather, for instance.

Re:security though obscurity

[Culture20]

No, no. He uses them in series, not parallel. Web pages are so sanitized he might as well just use lynx.

Re:security though obscurity

[HTH NE1]

Similarly, with RAID-1 using mirrored drives, your possibility of failure is doubled. However, if one drive does fail, you still have one good drive, and can keep working until you replace the bad drive. There's no downtime, and no data loss. If you only have one drive, and it fails, you have both downtime, and data loss (at least everything that's changed since your most-recent backup).

Except that, with RAID's requirement that drives be identical in capacity (or you waste space), you tend to have a set of drives that have the same age, and thus the same time to failure. One fails and you're immediately stressing out the remaining drives, accelerating their failure to possibly before you return to a protected configuration.

The moment you're saved by redundancy, you're no longer protected by redundancy.

Re:security though obscurity

[Grishnakh]

One fails and you're immediately stressing out the remaining drives, accelerating their failure to possibly before you return to a protected configuration.

Incorrect. In a mirrored configuration, there's no difference between reading/writing one drive, or two drives. If one drive goes down, you're just back to a regular single-drive configuration, at least until you plug in a fresh drive and do a rebuild. Now, that rebuild operation will stress the old drive, but before that, there's no difference at all. Same goes for RAID-5: when one drive fails, you're only stressing the CPU (or dedicated controller) more.

The moment you're saved by redundancy, you're no longer protected by redundancy.

Yeah, so? It's better than not being protected at all. Plus, there's nothing saying you can only have two of something. It's perfectly possible to have a 3-, 4-, or more-drive RAID-1 mirror. Obviously, the storage efficiency sucks, but if you want excellent redundancy, you can easily mirror 4 drives, and suffer 3 failures before you're not protected.

Re:security though obscurity

[tomhudson]

Our own bodies even have redundancy: lungs, kidneys, eyes, ears, etc

How's that second heart, second liver, second penis, second uterus, second vagina, second mouth, second rectum, second esophagus, second stomach, second large intestine, second small intestine, second gall bladder, second spleen, second pancreas, second spine, second larynx, and second bellybutton coming along?

The heart and liver are good examples of the "all your eggs in one basket" approach - not 100% perfect, but if taken care of, should last the normal warranty period (and until recently, the warranty was "for the life of the owner" by definition).

Re:security though obscurity

[Grishnakh]

Humans are products of evolution, not design. Unfortunately, we haven't yet evolved any redundancy for our heart or liver, and as a result, those two organs are responsible for a large portion of our fatalities. Heart disease is the #1 killer of Americans, I believe. Also, mechanical devices such as airplanes and computers have external repairpeople who can replace faulty parts when needed; humans didn't evolve with the assumption of doctors available to transplant bad organs. If we were to redesign our bodies with modern assumptions (medicine being available, the types of foods modern people eat, etc.), we'd do many things differently. Dual hearts with circulatory systems that automatically shut off parts in the event of rupture (in case you sever an artery or get a limb cut off) would probably be part of the new design, to improve survivability. But obviously, somewhere along the way, it was found that organisms with dual lungs and kidneys survived longer than ones without, so we have them now as a result.

Many of the other organs you mention are not critical anyway. Gall bladders and spleens are non-essential, and people can live quite well without them, just like they can live without an appendix. Bellybuttons aren't organs, nor are they necessary or even useful; they're just a by-product of the "manufacturing process". They cease to be useful as soon as your umbilical cord is cut. As for spines, some things simply can't be feasibly made redundant. A parallel to this in aviation is the rotors on a helicopter. Once your rotors are damaged, you're done for, and there's no feasible way to design around that. In the future, however, it might be possible to make a 3- or 4-rotor helicopter with automatic control, so that if one is damaged the others can continue to work, but as long as humans are the pilots, it's not possible (it'd be like trying to have fully manual antilock brakes, with individual wheelspeed sensing and control, at the driver's feet).

Re:security though obscurity

[tomhudson]

it's not possible (it'd be like trying to have fully manual antilock brakes, with individual wheelspeed sensing and control, at the driver's feet).

Heavy equipment has had this for decades. Individual brake pedals for left and right sides, and a little slider so you can lock them together if you don't want to "play the brake pedals".

Also, heart failure was far and away from being the major cause of death for most of humanity's existence. Disease, exposure to the elements, starvation, war, accidents ... these all killed humans in great numbers.

Or how about these snapshots:Murder being the #1 cause of death for pregnant women in Maryland, and the #2 cause nationally, behind accidents, or the #2 cause of death for infants/a

Re:security though obscurity

[Grishnakh]

Heavy equipment has had this for decades. Individual brake pedals for left and right sides, and a little slider so you can lock them together if you don't want to "play the brake pedals".

Wrong. Separate left/right brakes on tractors are nothing like ABS, and certainly made for the purpose of retaining control at speed in bad weather. Tractors don't usually even go over 5-10 mph, and drive on dirt or mud, not paved roads. It's not possible for humans to control four wheels simultaneously, with millisecond response times.

Also, heart failure was far and away from being the major cause of death for most of humanity's existence. Disease, exposure to the elements, starvation, war, accidents ... these all killed humans in great numbers.

Wrong again. Before humans became overpopulated and created agriculture, societies, cities, etc., these things weren't major problems. It wasn't until humans reproduced so much that they had to live in communities and farm their food, instead of being hunter-gatherers, that these things became problems. The development of agriculture was a giant leap backwards for humans, and they were better off as hunters and gatherers, and it was only overpopulation that forced them to grow their own food and suffer for it. Did you know humans lost a full foot in height when they changed to agriculture, due to poor nutrition? It's only been in the last century or so that we've gained that foot of height back.

When you get to old age, it's frequently your heart that gives out first.

Or how about these snapshots:Murder being the #1 cause of death for pregnant women in Maryland [now.org], and the #2 cause nationally, behind accidents, or the #2 cause of death for infants/a [benbest.com]

Obviously, whenever you look at a select group of people, the causes of death will change. I'm sure the leading cause of death for inner-city males (in east coast USA cities like Detroit) under the poverty line is also not heart disease, but that just shows the problems with poverty, lack of education, gang mentality, etc. For the population as a whole (where access to education and avoidance of a violent lifestyle isn't much of a problem), heart disease is the #1 killer, and cancer is #2, IIRC. I think auto accidents were #3, which shows why everyone having a car and there not being any decent public transit in this country isn't working out too well.

Re:security though obscurity

[kevinNCSU]

The development of agriculture was a giant leap backwards for humans, and they were better off as hunters and gatherers

He typed on his computer from the comfort of his house using the electricity produced by society ;)

and it was only overpopulation that forced them to grow their own food and suffer for it. Did you know humans lost a full foot in height when they changed to agriculture, due to poor nutrition?

Are you completely sure it wasn't because without agriculture the short and frail people were more likely to fail at hunting and die of starvation before being able to pass their genes on?

Re:security though obscurity

[SaroDarksbane]

while security though obscurity is not security it can be used as one pick of a larger puzzle to make it harder for possible infectors of your computer. i use 4 web browsers each with different security settings and plugins enabled to limit possible attack vectors.

Indeed. I determined that my front door was the weakest point in my home's security, so I put two doors in every wall to foil any would-be attacker. That'll show 'em.

Re:security though obscurity

[Anthony Mouse]

Yeah, so? It's better than not being protected at all. Plus, there's nothing saying you can only have two of something. It's perfectly possible to have a 3-, 4-, or more-drive RAID-1 mirror. Obviously, the storage efficiency sucks, but if you want excellent redundancy, you can easily mirror 4 drives, and suffer 3 failures before you're not protected.

Plus there is always RAID-6. A six or eight disk RAID-6 has better storage efficiency than normal RAID-1/RAID-10 and you still need three simultaneous disk failures to fall over. Or if you have a large number of disks and you need an exceptional level of redundancy, RAID-15 or RAID-16, which has only slightly worse storage efficiency than RAID-10 and is pretty much only going to fall over as a result of a lightning strike or some other force of nature.

Re:security though obscurity

[AlienIntelligence]

and second bellybutton coming along?

Dude, you were doing pretty good til bellybutton?

Were you purposefuly trying for 17 examples? Do
you have a Perittosarithmosform OCD?

-AI

Re:security though obscurity

[Zembar]

I'd say evolution has favored redundancy, or there'd just be one human. If one fails, there's almost 7 billion more to pick up the slack. I think this goes for pretty much every species on earth.

Next step: more planets in case the one we're on breaks down.

Re:security though obscurity

[tomhudson]

Well, I *could* have said 2 umbilical cords, but bellybuttons are funnier. After all, we all know the purpose of bellybuttons is to collect lint so it doesn't accumulate in the clothes dryer.

Articles of clothing that are too far from the bellybutton accumulate too much lint, and the clothes dryer tries to eat them. Think of it - how many socks does the average dryer consume, compared to shirts?

Re:security though obscurity

[Anonymous Coward]

"having multiple engines is generally better than having a single engine"

Very true! In a twin, the second engine is there to take you to the scene of the crash ... ; >)

Re:security though obscurity

[lgw]

Before humans became overpopulated and created agriculture, societies, cities, etc., these things weren't major problems. It wasn't until humans reproduced so much that they had to live in communities and farm their food, instead of being hunter-gatherers, that these things became problems.

Farming led to higher populations, not the other way round. And disease, exposure to the elements, starvation, war, and accidents (and simple murder) were all problems for hunter-gatherers, though war was mostly your farming neighbors taking your land and killing you, thanks to their higher population density.

which shows why everyone having a car and there not being any decent public transit in this country isn't working out too well.

It's working out quite well: freedom is more valuable than safety, and cars == individual freedom in a very real way (also, public transport outside of dense population centers is a joke, but that's a different discussion). Safety is not and should not be the highest goal a society aims for - that way lies slavery for all.

Re:security though obscurity

[lgw]

It's very true to say "The development of agriculture was a giant leap backwards for humans, and they were better off as hunters and gatherers - at first". Early agriculture led to many, many problems, including more starvation than hunter-gatherers faced (because the bad years for farmers were very bad indeed). The only reason agriculture took off is that the higher population densities it supported (in the good years), and community organization it forced, allowed farmers to conquer their neighbors.

Re:security though obscurity

[idontgno]

Well, first, although the quote from The Jargon File is unattributed, most of the contents of that document are from MIT or CalTech lore, and edited (and commented on) by Eric S. Raymond. If I were to consider whom I'd trust more to general matters of technology, I would have to weigh in their favor, rather than some random slashdotter who has to borrow the name of a minor Tolkien character. Therefore, I think we can dismiss the validity of the entire "Anyone who argues this way is a moron" argument.

Ok. I've gotten the ad hominem part of the discussion out of the way. Now for the part where I tell you what you're clearly not understanding.

Redundancy for robustness is terrific. But it doesn't change the fact: increase the number of participating components you are automatically increasing the number of possible component failures. High-availability design masks the overall system impact of component failure by allowing non-failed components to carry on and preserve system function, but not every system has the right kind of redundancy for that. In the airplane example, if the twin-engine aircraft is heavily (but permissibly) loaded, it will be within performance specifications with both engines functioning, but fall outside the envelope if one engine fails. That's a redundancy design not for reliability, but performance; if your system functional behavior is dependent on all redundant components simultaneously (A "and" B), redundancy isn't for reliability, and the "better basket" argument applies.

So yeah, you're definitely thinking about the "redundancy for robustness" thing, and you're right as far as you go. But.... not every redundancy design is for robustness (think multiple CPU cores on a single chip... where's the robustness redundancy there?)... and also, designs that start with high-availability redundancy often cannibalize the redundancy reserve for performance (bad management decisions, but that's what management is for).

On balance, it's still better to have a single super basket.

Re:security though obscurity

[rerogo]

Go back and read the rest of the comment before you complain about it.

Re:security though obscurity

[kevinNCSU]

What specifically do you think I missed? I don't disagree with his larger claims, just the one that agriculture was a step backward and people got shorter because agriculture led to society being malnourished rather then shorter/frailer people having more survivability.

Re:security though obscurity

[kevinNCSU]

I guess I can see it in that context, but I feel that's like saying the automobile was a giant step backwards because now when people had a bad accident between two cars it was a much worse accident then when horses were involved when clearly the benefits to society far outweighed the "step back" of increased danger when things went wrong.

Re:security though obscurity

[Coren22]

Except MTBF is a statistic, not a counter.

Re:security though obscurity

[tomhudson]

You haven't got a clue. Tractors can go a LOT faster than 5-10 mph, and drive on paved roads. Take a look at snow clearing in any industrial country. 20 mph is not a problem, some can go a fair amount faster.

Second, I never said that this was like ABS - I was writing about how there are vehicles that already have individual wheel brake control (which the OP mistakenly said didn't exist).

Third, heart problems still kill only a minority of the population - and the #1 cause of heart disease is smoking. Stop smoking and both heart disease and cancer rates drop. Duh!

Disease, exposure to the elements, starvation, war, accidents ... these all killed humans in great numbers.

Wrong again. Before humans became overpopulated and created agriculture, societies, cities, etc., these things weren't major problems

Well, nice way to try to slip in an outright lie. So what killed humans before we started living in cities? Or did they just live forever, never breaking a leg, immune from drought, storms, cold, never having an accident, never fighting with another tribe ...

Gee, imagine that - there were no diseases before we invented cities! Nobody ever slipped on a wet rock while crossing a stream. The weather was always perfect. And there were not enough people in the world to fight. Sorry, but the Garden of Eden and similar "creation myths" are just that - myths.

And BTW, ABS sucks if you really know how to drive on ice.

Re:security though obscurity

[lgw]

Yeah, the transition to farming was a really counter-intuitive step backwards (execpt in terms of military might, which turns out to be the one thing that mattered). It just shows how hard it is for an economy to move past a local maximum, even if that local maximum is pretty low compared to the alternatives.

Re:security though obscurity

[HTH NE1]

A statistic tied to time, such that as time passes, the probability of failure approaches certainty asymptotically.

I dare coin another phrase: "Imminency approaches certainty."

One thing is for certain.

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't see the Amish having problems like this.

Re:One thing is for certain.

[fuzzyfuzzyfungus]

Apparently word hasn't gotten out that you "know horses"... Those fuckers are about as fun to fix as eMachines, and substantially more likely to attack you.

Re:One thing is for certain.

[Reverand Dave]

Sir you haven't been working on the same eMachines that I have if you think they won't attack you.

Re:One thing is for certain.

[PitaBred]

I don't know about "substantially". I've got a couple of scars from those cheap as shit cases that must have been made by Schick or Gillette.

Re:One thing is for certain.

[AntEater]

The problem with horses is that you can't take any of the good parts from a non-functional horse and use them to upgrade your existing horse. I don't see the Amish building new horses out of spare parts in their basement. On the other hand, horses are a good excuse for having hot grits in the house in case anyone asks.

Re:One thing is for certain.

[sumdumass]

Your right, those Emachines are vicious.. I gave up working on them when one kicked my dog, crashed my pickup truck, and ran off with my sister's netbook. I was lucky to escape with my IPOD alive.

Re:One thing is for certain.

[element-o.p.]

Yeah, but "fixing" an animal requires a somewhat different skillset than fixing a machine. I know if someone tried to "fix" me, I'd probably attack them, too :D

Re:One thing is for certain.

[Culture20]

Apparently word hasn't gotten out that you "know horses"

If word spreads in an Amish community that you "know horses" no one will ever leave you alone with their horses.. Or talk to you.

Re:One thing is for certain.

[HTH NE1]

Your right, those Emachines are vicious.. I gave up working on them when one kicked my dog, crashed my pickup truck, and ran off with my sister's netbook. I was lucky to escape with my IPOD alive.

The owner was illegally downloading country music, am I right?

Re:One thing is for certain.

[fuzzyfuzzyfungus]

Thanks for nothing, King James...

Re:One thing is for certain.

[Sloppy]

I don't see the Amish having problems like this.

That's because the bible doesn't say mounting a filesystem is supposed to make a computer immediately try to load and execute code from that filesystem. Back in biblical times, nobody ever thought of doing anything so ridiculously stupid with their computers. Unlike today, all they had was rampant mysticism, ignorance, and blind hatred and violence (good thing we finally conquered all those things) .. but nothing approaching the awe-striking dim-wittedness of "hey, the user inserted some media, QUICK!! LET'S EXECUTE IT! AS THE USER, TOO!"

Re:One thing is for certain.

[sumdumass]

How did you know?

Re:One thing is for certain.

[Merls the Sneaky]

On the other hand, horses are a good excuse for having hot grits in the house in case anyone asks.

How do you explain Natalie Portman?

God I can relate!

[Anonymous Coward]

And the look of crestfallen woe when you can't pull a rabbit out of the hat, it's priceless.

Re:God I can relate!

[fuzzyfuzzyfungus]

It's a perfectly reasonable response. All the computers on TV have a nigh-magical, unerringly task-specific UI (magically only available to the team's 'geeky tech genius') that can do anything the plot requires. In this case, the plot of their personal psychodrama requires magically fixing their machine. And you, the team's geeky tech genius, have just failed....

Re:God I can relate!

[Quiet_Desperation]

It can be worse. I'm an EE, and people I know think I can automagically fix *any* electronic device ever created.

One guy wanted me to fix his neon beer sign. I know just enough about neon signs to know I don't want to mess around with voltages like that.

Sometimes I get lucky. One friend called me and said the ceiling fan he installed is working oddly, and wondered if I knew what was wrong. From 10 miles away. :-/ A sudden brain wave made me ask if he had connected it to a dimmer switch. Sure enough, he had.

Re:God I can relate!

[Vegemeister]

60 mA at 60 Hz? Hell yes that's dangerous. Neon sign transformers don't have enough energy for arc-flash or serious heat damage, but they can drive plenty of current through your heart. They can, however, be trouble-shot safely. If you can draw an arc form the transformer and the short-circuit current is in spec, the problem is the tube or the insulation somewhere in the system. Resistance at the terminals of the transformer (as measured with 10 volts or more) should be at least several Mohm. If it's less than that, replace rotted HV cables and wipe case of transformer and sign tube with isopropanol.

If you can't draw an arc, the transformer is potted in tar and the labor to repair one (if it can even be done) is far more expensive than the replacement. If neither of the above fixes it, you'll have to get a new sign.

The behavior of a switch-mode supply when driving something other than the specified load is somewhat unpredictable, so testing the power supply in that case requires replacement with a known-good part to see if the problem is fixed.

Re:God I can relate!

[Quiet_Desperation]

Bullcrap. I had an old sign transformer when I was in college and we built a Tesla coil with it. The manufacturer's own data stated that the conditions at the output terminals are sufficient to cause fibrillation.

Re:God I can relate!

[Taibhsear]

The terminal?

Re:God I can relate!

[oDDmON oUT]

"And you, the team's geeky tech genius, have just failed...."

Failure is not an option.

Strategic retreat on the other hand...

Re:God I can relate!

[Vegemeister]

That is, the resistance the transformer sees, not the resistance looking into the transformer.

Tough luck

[BSAtHome]

Well, one more reason to take away the computers from every stupid person. Boy, that'll be the day of comfort and silence. Can't wait for it to happen.

Re:Tough luck

[BlackSnake112]

Well, one more reason to take away the computers from every stupid person. Boy, that'll be the day of comfort and silence. Can't wait for it to happen.

But then, Dell, Apple, HP, every other computer maker, will bitch from lack of sales.

Re:Tough luck

[hajus]

We are. We're giving them a nice soft padded ipad.

Re:Tough luck

[geekoid]

And what would BSAtHome do after their computer was taken away?

Re:Tough luck

[i-linux123]

THIS^^^^^ _ and; Lock them down as much as possible. Add push-button resets. And make Linux user-hateful again.

Get over it.

[drunkennewfiemidget]

Newsflash: there are douchehats in every profession.

Computer fixers deal with people who click 'ok' on all the addons their favourite 'free' download site suggests.
Computer programmers deal with specs and users that want features they don't understand, and will never use.
Mechanics who deal with people who figured the 'little oil can light' wasn't anything serious and kept driving.
Accountants whose clients figure they didn't need to file their taxes for the last 3 years, or that it was acceptable to write off that hooker as a 'business expense'.
Teachers whose students are dumber than bricks, and have parents who insist its your fault.

If you don't like it, get a factory job.

Re:Get over it.

[spun]

Generally, programmers are not asked to program for free by relatives. With mechanics, people know they need pay, they generally don't ask for free services unless you are immediate family, or an old friend who owes them. Accountants never do anyone's taxes for free, and you wouldn't ask a teacher to tutor your kids for free. Do you see the difference? It's not the "people are stupid" part that's the problem, it's the "your skills aren't worth anything" part that upsets the PC fixer.

Re:Get over it.

[jimicus]

Mechanics who deal with people who figured the 'little oil can light' wasn't anything serious and kept driving.

Mechanics generally draw the line at fixing the results of that for free. Yet computer repairers are often expected to do exactly that.

Re:Get over it.

[Macgrrl]

If you are doing this professionally, fine. You're getting paid to deal with the headaches, you generally get paid an hourly rate to sort it out.

The referenced article refers to someone telling a friend that their problem is not something they can fix in 10 minutes for free. I feel this is totally reasonable.

Ive lost count of the amount of free support I gave to friends and family when I used to fix computers for a living. Some of it I was happy to do either due to the relationship I had with the person or the amount of good will they had generated through our personal history. Others were imposing on what was little more than an acquaintance to avoid paying a professional when they had no intention of ever repaying the favour.

Re:Get over it.

[Anonymous Coward]

"Newsflash: there are douchehats in every profession."

Are you also expected to do all the work for free? No? Then I detect a rather significant difference!

Re:Get over it.

[TheRealMindChild]

It is simple to write off those people, but that makes you the same part of the whole that these folks come from. Their disparity, and the struggle against it, is what keeps us all going.

Imagine if you will, you find a lamp with a genie in it. You get three wishes. Most people wish for selfish things, for which only a bad outcome can happen (or so says TV). But you thought this through... you only need one wish! You wish for everyone to be happy, always. Great. Now you, nor anyone else wants material things. Great, right? You're out of food. What compels you to get more? After all, you are happy with no food. You will be happy dying from not eating. People will be happy to watch you die from not eating.

The point here is, you need the yin for the yang, or it all falls apart. Griping "Get over it and do x" only makes you part of the problem, not the problem solver.

Re:Get over it.

[fuzzyfuzzyfungus]

I think the point of particular bitterness, for the "computer fixers" is that there is something about computer fixing that seems to completely annihilate the social norms concerning asking people to exercise their job and/or job-related skills for free, because of some(sometimes rather tenuous) interpersonal connection.

When it's strictly business, lousy customers and messy problems come with the territory. For whatever reason, though, anybody whose profession remotely touches computers(even if your background in SAN architectures makes you no more qualified than anybody else to reload windows on a hosed box) is liable to be asked to perform a multi-hours slogging match under impossible constraints by assorted acquaintances and relatives of some distance...

Re:Get over it.

[Anonymous Coward]

Newsflash: there are douchehats in every profession.

I think the important word there is "profession". The author of TFA (yes, I read it) gave someone a computer for free and is now dealing with their incompetence. The author has every right to bitch in a snarky article because the story demonstrates that no good deed goes unpunished. If the claims in the article can be trusted, the author is being used by an ungrateful, irresponsible sponge who doesn't know what the hell they're doing, blames others for their own incompetence, and expects free tech support on top of their free hardware.

Mechanics who deal with people who figured the 'little oil can light' wasn't anything serious and kept driving.

Oh, a car analogy. Good. A mechanic who gives away an old car for free should not be expected to offer a lifetime of free repairs (or to go around syphoning gas) for the benefit of the whiney new owner who drives the car into a ditch.

A lawyer should not be expected to give free legal advice at cocktail parties on demand either. And I'm sure many doctors can tell you stories about meeting people and having them, within seconds, complain about their bad knee or the color of their shit the previous day.

One could be rude to their faces and tell them to fuck off. Or write an article. I prefer the first, but hey, I guess the author is a softie.

If you don't like it, get a factory job.

(eyeroll) Seems like you're the exact person who should be reading TFA.

Re:Get over it.

[Anonymous Coward]

As an accountant, I can tell you that I get asked all the time by friends and relatives if I can do their taxes for free...

As an accountant however I never do anything for free...

Re:Get over it.

[Mordok-DestroyerOfWo]

I would say that part of the reason is that the tools needed to fix a PC are typically portable and/or highly available. If I need help fixing my car I need to find a friend with the right tools, and a proper place to do the work. Having a teacher tutor involves them spending a predetermined (usually) amount of time with a student and that typically resonates in a person's mind as an act that requires pay. I've found saying "no" helps a lot, as does being in a relationship since I'm no longer allowed to fix things based solely on the hotness of the user.

Re:Get over it.

[peragrin]

Mechanics who deal with people who figured the 'little oil can light' wasn't anything serious and kept driving.

Mechanics generally draw the line at fixing the results of that for free. Yet computer repairers are often expected to do exactly that.

Mechanics also have real world expenses like the actual OIL to go into the engine.
  all software is invisible and infinitely copyable with no degradation. Since 90% of computer repair is literally waiting for the software to be copied and the computer is generally only able to install one item at a time computer repair people actually spend 10 minutes to do something then wait while the software copying takes an hour.

Yes I know repair shops often do more than one job at a time for this reason. we aren't talking about at the shop, but at someone's home.

Re:Get over it.

[fishbowl]

I click on everything. Then, if anything at all goes wrong, I simply restart my virtual machine from the read-only image.

I *do* have a factory job. I develop systems for manufacturing automation :-)

Re:Get over it.

[sdguero]

I've found that people who are "PC fixers" and work for free, tend to screw up more than they fix.

Re:Get over it.

[nick357]

I think the problem is that if someone needs work on a $20,000 car, they can justify going to a "pro" and paying someone for 5 hours at $100 per. Or if they have a house worth $300,000 - then paying a plumber or electrician $1000 for a day is justifiable. But if you have a problem with your 4 year old computer that you paid $500 for, everyone knows its worth less than $100 now - how can anyone justify paying a "pro" to spend a couple of hours troubleshooting it. Its better to just go buy a new computer... unless you can con your friend "who knows about these things" to fix it for free.

Re:Get over it.

[spun]

Right, and THAT is why we keep getting stuck with this crap: we keep doing it for free. Stop selling yourselves short, when someone asks you for free services, just say no.

Re:Get over it.

[Reverand Dave]

Yeah, but at that point I'm wasting my time waiting around for some thing that could have been easily prevented if the user would have just followed my recommendation, or if my idiot mother in law would not have jammed that DVD between the two disc drives instead of putting it in the fucking tray. The point is not that it costs me to fix people computers, the point is that it wastes my time so in essence people are saying that my time is worthless or at any rate worth less than theirs and that, my friend, gets tiring after a while.

Re:Get over it.

[Anonymous Coward]

Please add professional photographers to that list of the abused. We are constantly asked for "favors." I farking hate it!

Re:Get over it.

[Spazmania]

That's not really true. My step father is a mechanic. When it's time for me to buy a "new" used car, I ask him to help me find a good one. This mostly involves me giving general parameters for what I want and then sending him a check to cover it after he trawls the car ads, inspects a few and picks a good one.

He always worries that when something goes wrong with the car 6 months later I'll be upset with his pick, but I never am. Sure, stuff goes wrong with it. It's a car. Not only that, it's a used car with many miles on it. But I know for damn sure he did a better job picking a car in good shape than I could have.

Re:Get over it.

[vlad30]

for those I feel are just in for the freebie I point to the queue of waiting to be fixed for free machines when I have time or they can join the pay for service line they invariably pay after they find some of those machines have been there for months

Re:Get over it.

[spun]

What, you mean rebooting it and reinstalling the operating system is not the first, last, and only solution to computer problems?

Re:Get over it.

[Anonymous Coward]

... or that it was acceptable to write off that hooker as a 'business expense'.

I can't? But I work for a sex toy company. We need to find out if the toys work well. And the hookers all left happy and got free samples.

Re:Get over it.

[vlad30]

Generally, programmers are not asked to program for free by relatives. .

I've lost count of the number of web sites I've been asked to do because I'm a programmer and this should be quick. I point them to the many web site programmers that do entire web sites for $99 and kindly point out that I'm in the middle of a big project and won't be able to do it for 3 months. After 3 months experience elsewhere they are usually willing to pay the proper rate. if not wash rinse repeat.

Re:Get over it.

[spun]

I'm beginning to see a pattern. If others consider your profession a "hobby" rather than a "real" profession, then they may be more likely to ask for free help.

Re:Get over it.

[Anonymous Coward]

Based on my experience, your generalizations don't generally apply.

Re:Get over it.

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes. But let's not pretend that technicians that uninstall malware are anywhere near
as qualified as mechanics, teachers and accountants. I would never ask a 14 year
old to fix my car, teach a class or file my taxes but they could very well be able
to do whatever low-level support does.

Re:Get over it.

[sco08y]

Generally, programmers are not asked to program for free by relatives. With mechanics, people know they need pay, they generally don't ask for free services unless you are immediate family, or an old friend who owes them. Accountants never do anyone's taxes for free, and you wouldn't ask a teacher to tutor your kids for free. Do you see the difference?

You really underestimate how many cheap bastards there are. All mechanics get bugged by people for free advice if not to look at their cars. Pretty sure you can't tell someone you're a lawyer or a doctor without someone trying to get a free consult. And I know a few people who have done free tutoring for friends; they're not teachers, but still.

That said, a lot of people do stuff for each other for free to help out. Moving is the biggest one, since it's pretty universal, and it's a good way to help someone out. My problem isn't that people want me to do computer stuff for them; I'd be happy to do barter. The problem is that I'm not a sysadmin, so it's better for them to hire someone who's set up to do it. Hell, I don't know how many times people asked me what brand was better, and they're always surprised when I say computer specs are completely boring to me.

Re:Get over it.

[element-o.p.]

It's more than that, though. After spending 40+ hours per week fixing computers at work, when I get home, I don't particularly want to touch another computer until I get back to work. I want to ride my motorcycle, snuggle with my wife, play games with my daughter, etc. I don't work on computers because it is my biggest passion in life; I work on computers because it foots the bill for a reasonably comfortable lifestyle for my family and me.

Re:Get over it.

[Maestro4k]

I would say that part of the reason is that the tools needed to fix a PC are typically portable and/or highly available.

But this applies to other areas, the tools for working on cars (except really major repairs) are highly available and portable. Granted good ones cost a lot, but you can do minor things on your car (replacing spark plugs, changing oil, etc.) with stuff you buy at Wal-Mart. The difference is that you're paying a mechanic for their knowledge of how to use those tools. Why don't people realize it's the same thing for computers? Sure many of the tools are available for free, and are extremely portable, but knowing how to use them is the difficult part. It's quite easy for a novice to completely hose their computer using the same tools a skilled PC repair-person would use to fix it.

Having a teacher tutor involves them spending a predetermined (usually) amount of time with a student and that typically resonates in a person's mind as an act that requires pay.

So why do people not have the resonance when it takes 2 hours or more to repair their PC? And why do so many of them, despite obviously not knowing how to repair it themselves (or they wouldn't have asked you), seem to think it should have taken you only 10% of that time?

No, the problem is a lot of people, for some strange reason, think because they can successfully turn their PC on and browse the web that they're qualified to judge how easy and how quickly people can fix their PCs. They won't do the same thing to mechanics simply because they can turn their car on and drive it around. They won't do the same thing to a tutor even though they can read and write. But when it comes to PCs, many, many people are total jerks to those they want (often darn near demand) fix them. And as any IT worker can tell you, this attitude transfers to the office as well. Everyone's encountered numerous employees who think you're taking too long to fix their PC, even though they have no clue what you're actually doing.

But yes, a good solution is to say no. I only fix PCs for people who have treated me fairly in the past now. Everyone else I either politely put off (say I'm too busy, or I don't know what's wrong), or I just politely tell them I don't do PC repair. But I still boggle at the attitudes so many people cop when it comes to PC repair. It just makes no damn sense.

Re:Get over it.

[Anonymous Coward]

"If you don't like it, get a factory job."

This is the United States. What factory job?

Re:Get over it.

[psithurism]

it's the "your skills aren't worth anything" part that upsets the PC fixer.

Personally I'm already upset at the "Your skills" part of that quote: I've had brief periods in my life where I had a dedicated personal computer I could screw with and those were some time ago. I'm probably worse off here, than your average 'free computer fixer' but everyone has a similar story, which, unfortunately, the open letter did not cover.

So now my friends think somehow, years of studying design patterns and programming languages, this somehow gives me insight into why your browser, that I've never heard of, running on your mac, an operating system I've barely used, is going kinda slow. What do they want me to do? gdb it? I'm often offered money to help out with peoples computers, but I have to reject it, because I will make no promises. Just because someone said I was a 'computer guy' does not mean I can fix every random glitch a computer makes anymore than being a plumber can help someone diagnose my electrical problems. If you want to pay me for being a smart guy or even just literate enough to read your manual to you, then maybe I'll come over and take your money, but if my brainpower makes the problem worse, well this isn't the first time.

Re:Get over it.

[geekoid]

" programmers are not asked to program for free by relatives."
Maybe, maybe not. But they are all asked to fix the computer because they are the computer person.

"With mechanics, people know they need pay, they generally don't ask for free services unless you are immediate family, or an old friend who owes them."
Just like computer techs.

". Accountants never do anyone's taxes for free, "
My mother offers to do my taxes for free.

"..and you wouldn't ask a teacher to tutor your kids for free"
You may not realize it, but we do. Teacher are always asked t put in extra hours and often bring in supplies.

"Do you see the difference? "
no, because there isn't one.

You know who else gets asked for help by family members? Doctors, Lawyers, plumbers, chef's, bakers, .. and, well, everyone.

If you don't like being part of your tight community called family, then stop socializing with them, and pay your parents back.
What? you don't think their skills are worth nothing because they didn't charge you room and board, do you?

"it's the "your skills aren't worth anything" part that upsets the PC fixer."
They are plumbers with less grace, apparently.

Re:Get over it.

[markass530]

Yea I got shit for gratitude from my parents for building and maintaining a computer for several years - not until I didn't live in the same city anymore and they had to fork over 300 bucks to some geek squad schmuck.

Re:Get over it.

[psithurism]

I've found saying "no" helps a lot, as does being in a relationship since I'm no longer allowed to fix things based solely on the hotness of the user.

I find at the relationship point your instead forced to fix things based on whether the user is your significant other. And the user is, quite often, and your relationship depends on your fix being satisfactory.

Re:Get over it.

[Anonymous Coward]

I am about to the point of saying "My living room needs painting." or "My yard needs raking." or "My car needs to be washed and vaccumed out". When they look at me funny, I will say "I have to do all these things, or pay someone to do them for me. If I am fixing your PC, I am not doing these things for myself or my family."

Your skills are not worthless unless you let them become worthless.

Re:Get over it.

[Anonymous Coward]

You must be kidding. People who actually get paid to fix PCs only do it because they aren't skilled enough to get a real technical job.

If you can find a "PC Fixing" job that pays the same 200K a year that my software pre-sales job pays I'll happily switch as I enjoy fixing PCs

Re:Get over it.

[Anonymous Coward]

It may not be the first and only solution. But it's the safest bet on ruined machines like the one described. Secure the important data, reinstall only the software that stems from a safe source. Explain how to stay safe. Make it clear that malware usually doesn't install itself on a safe and regularily updated machine.

If you ask someone to help you with your car for free, you don't igmore EVERY advice he gives you to keep the car in shape. You don't install cheap, look-alike-brakes that cause an accident TWICE. When he fixed your crashed car once for free, you use safe replacement parts and try to play nice so he continues to fix your car.

Same goes here:

I fix a computer once and give instructions, provided I like the person. If the advices are followed and the person is nice, I help from time to time. But if he ruins the perfect installed system by installing every crap he could download on the net and gets infected AGAIN because of that (having multiple toolbars or unpatched, pirated software is a good sign for such losers), the person is on its own.

Re:Get over it.

[Anonymous Coward]

I know of someone who stopped getting asked to fix computer by intentionally causing issues when working on them.

My favourite line was 'Photos? I didn't see any photos on your computer when I worked on it.' .....Pure evil.

Re:Get over it.

[Anonymous Coward]

Mechanics also have real world expenses like the actual OIL to go into the engine.

Next time you get your car repaired have a look at how much of your bill is parts and how much is labor. Hint: Parts are cheap. If even a quarter of the bill is parts you got a steal.

Yes I know repair shops often do more than one job at a time for this reason. we aren't talking about at the shop, but at someone's home.

Which is exactly why (cost of guy at home > cost of guy at shop).
Economies of scale
Computers do this too to maximize their productivity rather than waiting on disk operations.

Re:Get over it.

[workbench]

The fact that you refer to people who "click 'ok' on all the addons their favourite 'free' download site suggests" as "douchehats" is precisely why the rest of the world thinks IT heads are assholes. And the rest of the world is right to think so. This applies to all your other examples.

So let me rephrase your conclusion:

If you are unable to help and educate your users, your customers, or your students, if you are not willing to make your software, your service or product or whatever it is you provide friendly to non-expert, then my self-righteous friend you should get out of your field and get a fucking factory job, because you are the problem.

Re:Get over it.

[Anonymous Coward]

I had a conversation on money just last night. Due to unemployment boredom, I've fixed a few PC problems and found that it is MUCH HARDER to wave the fee --3 people have forced me to take money, which I always managed to wave off before. Like TFA's writer and his having been the old owner of the machine, when we charge friends and acquaintances, we're forever tied to a machine because people think computers trouble is like mishandling old second-hand cars.

When I do not charge for repairs, I can quit at any time, giving me freedom to seek endeavors that do pay for my repair stress. I can also choose to enjoy time off. Fixing tends to take two afternoons when you're inexperienced --one to realize you DO need to wipe everything after tiring but ineffective passes of anti-spyware tools, and the next to bring all the backup gear, purchase that RAM you will sell the owner, and bring some tools to remove unneeded screws or install new cable runs and random things like that. Nowadays I carry tons of things in my bag. I would still prefer not to charge, and to take the experience as more skill testing and upkeep, since it happens no more than 2 times a year.

Re:Get over it.

[Anonymous Coward]

I think the problem is compounded. Computer professionals are generally experts at finding and applying information. We wouldn't call someone to do something for free without making a serious effort to solve the problem ourselves and the vast majority of the time are able to do so because we know how to find information.

Muggles do not seem to have these problem solving skills and also have a bad habit of not reading the screen in front of them. They will come to you with problems like "It says if I click here it will draw a circle, what should I do?" What are you trying to do? "Draw a circle." Hmmm... lemme google for 12hrs and get back to you on this.

Re:Get over it.

[Lehk228]

i take it you do not and have not worked for an auto shop

every business type has fuckwit customers, in fact most have the same fuckwit customers who drive to the computer store to complain about the machine they bought used from a friend of a type not ever sold by that store in their SUV which has never had an oil change and just gets topped off with "whatever" weight oil when the oil pressure light comes on, then on the way home they stop at the supermarket and complain that "they" are always hiding the "good" eggs and milk in the back,

Re:Get over it.

[shri]

>> something about computer fixing that seems to completely annihilate the social norms concerning asking people to exercise their job and/or job-related skills for free

Not just computer fixing... pretty much everything IT related. Free pirated software, free e-books, torrents, name it and you'll see the same guys who're complaining about no one paying them for their time, enabling John and Jane Doe to rip the rest of the industry off. Want to bet that the guy who is ranting installs Adblockers, uTorrent, DVD rippers and burners so that his "clients" can get everything for free on the internets?

Lets see if any other profession encourages this free culture? Doctors? Lawyers? Car Mechanics?

Re:Get over it.

[microphobe]

The skills are worth something otherwise they wouldn't be needed, the basis of economic value is the desire for something grants it value. Anyway that is a side point, I have always found that outside immediate family, tech work grants favours among friends if that person has no marketable skills then they buy you a six pack.

Re:Get over it.

[Lehk228]

these days i just tell people to make sure they get a dual core or quad core, and to look at battery life on laptops. dual and better core gets rid of the busy or runaway process locking up the UI and that is what most people associate with a "slow" computer

Re:Get over it.

[tomhudson]

Imagine if you will, you find a lamp with a genie in it. You get three wishes. Most people wish for selfish things, for which only a bad outcome can happen (or so says TV). But you thought this through...

Yes, I have. I wish for an infinite supply of wishes.

I could never understand why people didn't just do that in the stories.

Re:Get over it.

[EdIII]

Accountants whose clients figure they didn't need to file their taxes for the last 3 years, or that it was acceptable to write off that hooker as a 'business expense'.

To be fair, some of those hookers are quite good and increase productivity while relieving stress. Not to mention... nothing helps close that deal faster than a meeting in Las Vegas that you can't remember.

It's really a business expense... not just an expense that you can explain in polite (read female) company.

OTOH, I can understand why Uncle Sam does not want to allow it as a business expense. It's an expense where it's almost impossible to determine the real value, or even a reasonable one. It can range from a couple of quarters to a bajillion dollars.

Re:Get over it.

[Fulcrum of Evil]

You may not realize it, but we do. Teacher are always asked t put in extra hours and often bring in supplies.

I never understood this - you get shit pay and they want you to spend some of it on work gear? If my boss did that, I'd get his CC and use that. As it is, these things are reimbursed.

Re:Get over it.

[LordLimecat]

A computer is a heck of a lot easier to fix than a screwed up engine. Id be willing to bet that if steve had fired up GMER, or Combofix, or one of Kaspersky's dedicated removal tools, the issue could have been resolved in less time than it took him to write his rant about how stupid she was for not understanding something that clearly isnt her area of expertise.

I tend to get friends and family who give me dinner or gift cards etc when i fix their machines; but perhaps not being a total douche about it has some bearing on the matter.

Re:Get over it.

[Anonymous Coward]

A computer is a heck of a lot easier to fix than a screwed up engine. Id be willing to bet that if steve had fired up GMER, or Combofix, or one of Kaspersky's dedicated removal tools, the issue could have been resolved in less time than it took him to write his rant about how stupid she was for not understanding something that clearly isnt her area of expertise.

BZZZZZZZTTTT!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Fail detected.

If you have a system like the lady presented to Steve Cassidy, where a scan sets off all sorts of bells and whistles and flashing red warning lights and reveals that you've been infested with a laundry list of nasties that reads like a Who's Who of the malware, rootkit, and trojan social set; then merely firing up GMER, or Combofix, or one of Kaspersky's dedicated removal tools is going to do fuck all to salvage the situation.

Such a system is hopelessly compromised and has to be nuked from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

Re:Get over it.

[Anonymous Coward]

Well that all depends on what problem your trying to fix. The computer problem or the problem of them asking for your help.

Re:Get over it.

[mywhitewolf]

problem is most people learn how to fix computers from trial and error and experience, most of the early experience comes for free and is given to family and friends. its harder to say "no" to a "simple virus clean" when you spend 3 hours building them the computer 5 years ago for free as your first "unofficial" client.

Re:Get over it.

[Anonymous Coward]

Honestly, that is the only worthwhile solution.

Digging viruses out by the hair is not profitable on a computer with nothing of value but portable media files. It's easier to just reinstall than it is to do a half ass job of "fixing" the problem. Unfortunately, it's an actual solution instead of make work and since there's only so many elderly people for computer mechanics to bilk, you see them making temporary "looks difficult" fixes instead of the cost effective reasonable long term fixes.

Re:Get over it.

[mywhitewolf]

I'd like to point out that sales isn't a technical job. in fact its about as far away from a technical job as you can get. also 200k a year wouldn't be impossible if you ran your own business.

Re:Get over it.

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't think so. A burned out oil can light is sort of like a lightning strike. Melted metal is pretty persuasive.

Re:Get over it.

[mywhitewolf]

a technician (by reputation not trade) that uninstalls malware is about as skilled as a backyard mechanic is, why are you treating a car and a computer differently? they are both machines that people specialize in, neither are more or less complicated than the other. a qualified mechanic is someone who has been a mechanic for 4 years, I'd expect someone who has spent 8 hours a day 5 days a week fixing computers to have the same level of competency after 4 years.
Also, you think the mechanic fixes your car? you should be thanking the 16 year old first year apprentice just out of school getting paid $2.50 an hour to fix your car.

Re:Get over it.

[Myrddin Wyllt]

Imagine if you will, you find a lamp with a genie in it. You get three wishes. Most people wish for selfish things, for which only a bad outcome can happen (or so says TV). But you thought this through...

Yes, I have. I wish for an infinite supply of wishes.

I could never understand why people didn't just do that in the stories.

Because that would be a meta-wish, and before you ask, you can't wish that it wasn't because that would be a meta-meta-wish, and genies don't do those either.

Re:Get over it.

[dasherjan]

begin sarcasm--> It may not be the only solution. Most of the time it is the quickest. Well Quickest for the one doing the fixing. Run manufacturer recovery program and walk away. Muhahahaha! ---end sarcasm

Re:Get over it.

[tomhudson]

Can I beg to differ? First, your link says nothing about meta-wishes.

Second, a meta-wish makes about as much sense as the semantic web. Automated agents will never "understand" the web, just as Watson doesn't "understand" the questions on Jeopardy.

I have a dream for the Web [in which computers] become capable of analyzing all the data on the Web – the content, links, and transactions between people and computers. A ‘Semantic Web’, which should make this possible, has yet to emerge, but when it does, the day-to-day mechanisms of trade, bureaucracy and our daily lives will be handled by machines talking to machines. The ‘intelligent agents’ people have touted for ages will finally materialize.

– Tim Berners-Lee, 1999

Keep wishing. It will never happen. Computers don't "analyse".

Analysis is the process of observing and breaking down a complex topic or substance into smaller parts to gain a better understanding of it.

Computers cannot "understand." It's only when you realize that it's not possible that you can overcome the problem. And it's certainly not necessary for machines to have any "understanding" of what they're doing when data-mining, any more than your car needs to "understand" how it burns gasoline.

This anthropomorphism of objects, which we seem to have dragged with us from the times when we lived in caves or trees, makes us blind to the real possibilities. It's just one example of trying to classify something by fitting it into a pre-existing framework, "because we can". Same as saying it's a "meta-wish". Wishing for an infinite supply of wishes can be both a "wish about wishes" AND a wish ;-p

Re:Get over it.

[Macgrrl]

At one stage when I fixed computers professionally, our largest regional competitor shut down (they ran 3 or more workshops), the overflow of their customers in combination with half our staff quitting in the same 2 week period meant our repair queue went from approximately 4 days to 6-8 weeks almost overnight. It was ugly.

Re:Get over it.

[hedwards]

That reminds me of a story I heard a long time ago about a technologist. I've got no idea if it ever happened as I can't recall where I heard it. He was brought in to fix a mainframe that had started to go wonky. He looks the machine over and asks some questions. Then he goes over and wonks the thing with his fist. This of course solves the problem, but the person that hired him wants to know why he should pay for so little work. The technologist replies, you're not paying me to hit your machine, you're knowing where to hit your machine.

Which is the point, the tools are out there, there's lots of free ones that do the job, but what you're typically paying for is the knowledge of which part of the system to wonk.

Re:Get over it.

[hedwards]

Of course not, some computers don't run Windows at all.

Re:Get over it.

[Culture20]

Please add professional photographers to that list of the abused. We are constantly asked for "favors." I farking hate it!

I'm beginning to see a pattern. If others consider your profession a "hobby" rather than a "real" profession, then they may be more likely to ask for free help.

And the bad part is if you enjoy your line of work enough, it might be a "hobby" in your off-hours, or truly was a hobby before you started getting paid for it. They more you enjoy your work, the more people assume you'd enjoy helping them in your free time.

Re:Get over it.

[Bacon Bits]

I find that it's most similar to the complaints I've heard from friends who are doctors/nurses, lawyers/legal aids, or therapists. People have a surprising ability to ignore the fact that those who make their living based upon knowledge and skills might not want to be treated like a walking manual. People do not consider expertise valuable, for some odd reason.

Reminds me of the famous "Knowing which screw to turn" parable:

A manufacturer had a problem with one of the older machines on their line. It shut down the line and held up production, costing many thousands of dollars in lost production. Since it was older equipment it was hard to find someone knowledgeable in repairing the machine, and nobody on-site knew what the problem could be. They found a technician with knowledge of the machine and hired him to come in and fix it.

When the technician arrived on site he listened to the client’s description of the problem, examined the machine, opened a panel, and turned a single screw. He restarted the machine and it was back to full function. The line was up and running and the manufacturer was happy.

A week later the manufacturer received a bill for services: $1000. They called the technician and demanded an explanation - after all, they reasoned, he had only turned one screw to fix the problem. He agreed to re-bill, this time with itemized charges. The next bill contained two lines.

Turning the screw $1
Knowing which screw to turn $999

Re:Get over it.

[chthon]

That is why I bought her a Mac. I use Linux only.

Re:Get over it.

[Vectormatic]

never mind said user wanting vista because "windows 7 isnt out for another year, and vista wasnt that terrible on my previous computer...."

i tell you, that OS recuded the quad-core 8GB ram system i built her to the equivalent of a pentium 4 based celeron running XP, with 256mb ram

Re:Get over it.

[jimicus]

Absolutely.

Far and away the safest option is to take an image of the machine in a known-good state and restore to that. It'll take about 15 minutes. I've tried what the GP suggested, but there's quite a few bits of malware where quite frankly, the time involved to get all its nasty claws out of the system would cost the customer (were you charging them a realistic rate) substantially more than the PC was ever worth.

Of course, it can make restoring the system while not impacting documents or programs installed since that point pretty difficult - but would you necessarily want to keep them as they are without some sort of scan (from a non-infected system) anyway? Chances are the mechanism used to install the various bits of malware is still stood in a "Downloads" folder and it'll be back on the system before you've even had a chance to close the door on your way out.

Where you wind up stuck is when the customer didn't get a system restore CD (and, feeling adventurous one day, looked at Disk Manager and thought "Hang on a minute - I paid for a 320GB disk. How come 20GB of it's not available for me to use? Soon see about that..."). Your options frequently boil down to "charge them for a new copy of Windows" or "pirate a copy". Guess what? If you won't pirate a copy, then as soon as you walk out the door leaving their computer untouched, they'll be on the phone to their nephew who will. But it'll be you has to pick up the pieces again six months later.

Really what's needed is for the System Restore tool in Windows to be put on some serious steroids. I'm thinking along the lines of "take a snapshot at each boot, make it really difficult to disable, keep snapshots until you really need space, allow the option to restore the system to exactly the state it was in at boot rather than "the state with any programs installed since then still available" and a bootable ISO on Microsoft's website which can check that the boot process and crucial system files all have known-good checksums, replacing them where necessary".

Re:Get over it.

[Anonymous Coward]

That story is way older and exists in many variations, most of which don't have anything to do with computers. One example (first google hit for "one chalk mark"):

http://www.powergenworldwide.com/index/display/articledisplay/45026/articles/power-engineering/volume-103/issue-11/humor/one-chalk-mark.html

Point still stands, though.

Re:Get over it.

[Anonymous Coward]

And what happens when you are the sort of person that doesn't like to ask for help with most things (medical and dental being one obvious exception)?

I don't know why I am that way, but I like to learn to do stuff myself. It might be related to the fact that I think peoples time is worth more than I can afford to pay. Or it might be my experiences with skilled trades people has been less than encouraging. A plumber turned up to look at our boiler and told my wife that it was the PCB and it would cost 200 quid. When I pointed out the flashing lights on the PCB indicated an air flow problem as explained by the big sticker on the back of the boiler cover, he cleared the fault in 5 mins and couldn't get out of the house quick enough. Or the 'professionals' who end up doing a bodge job (which you know you could have done yourself for free) and you stand there surveying the mess that they want to charge good money for!

As a consequence I have learnt to rebuild car engines, car body work, spraying, welding, plumbing, house hold electrics, wood work, brick laying, plastering to name a few of the more notable, practical skills I have taught myself over the years. I have also bought almost all of the tools needed to do this.

People come to me for all sorts of help or to borrow tools. I no longer lend tools to anyone but very close friends and family as it often ends up costing me money with broken tools coming back or tools not coming back at all. (The two recent examples are a chainsaw that came back so blunt that I can't get it sharp now, and a car battery start charger that was used, presumably, to turn the car over continuously until the start charger burnt out).

My day job is Sys admin/network admin, web developer, database administrator and basically configuring/fixing anything that involves a computer or embedded computer.

This results in phone calls, mostly from friends who want help. One problem I find is getting them to articulate what the fuck it is that they want me to do/fix. Then there is the issue of most PC fixes that come my way are long jobs and come with the 'I need my data recovering' caveat. At work when a PC is messed up (a rare occurrence) I just reboot it and re-image it, all the users files are on the server. Even that takes the best part of 4 hours. With personal PCs I don't have the luxury and doing a manual OS install (assuming the user still has the OS disks) without recovering data (assuming the hard drive is working) takes about 6 to 8hours with all the drivers that are missing or need updating and then applying all the latest patches. Then you get all the belly aching about missing applications (legal or otherwise) and you are expected to reinstall them as well, regardless of whether or not the user has the disks or you have to listen to the disbelief when you explain that office actually costs a few hundred quid yet people still turn their noses up at open/libre office. Then add in the fun of configuring all the required services, broadband, wifi, email etc, call of which usually involves the 'have you got the username and password' conversation.In fact I have even asked about this during a preliminary phone call when arranging the time for a visit. Saying 'we will need the username and passwords for your broadband, so if you can dig them out that will save time when setting up the router' and getting there are spending 45 minutes trying username and password combinations. Or spending 30 minutes on hold to the users ISP so you can find out their login details. Where do you draw the line?

To cap it all off, no one has ever paid me for all of my time at a decent rate. When it comes to people I don't know very well I now tell them that it will cost almost as much as a new PC to fix. That seems to keep the calls down.

Re:Get over it.

[Enigma23]

I've found saying "no" helps a lot, as does being in a relationship since I'm no longer allowed to fix things based solely on the hotness of the user.

I'd say that was a perfectly acceptable metric for deciding whose PC/laptop to fix; so would my girlfriend... ;)

Re:Get over it.

[serviscope_minor]

I tend to get friends and family who give me dinner or gift cards etc when i fix their machines; but perhaps not being a total douche about it has some bearing on the matter.

Why do you assume that the GP is being a total douche? Why is it not possible that his family are being total douches? I've stopped fixing computers for my family because they started calling me at all times, even at work and it simply got too much.

If anything, family is capable of being far douchier than friends. You get to choose your friends, but not your family. I seems like you have a good choice in friends and have been blessed with a nice family. Not everyone is so lucky.

Re:Get over it.

[i-linux123]

Hey, can you do my facebook pic please? Just a quick shot since you know the right angles. ;)

Re:Get over it.

[Terrasque]

So, you're saying your time is completely worthless? The only thing in the world you have a finite amount of, and one that you can't do much about?

I recently helped an uncle getting a laptop he just bought up and running. Completely new laptop. Took 3 hours. (Initial setup, removing crapware, install AV, update system) Most of it was waiting, but every 5 to 10 minutes I had to click on something or start something new, so I had to sit there the whole time.

You can always get a new can of oil, but I'll never get back those 3 hours.

Re:Get over it.

[gl4ss]

generally my relatives don't know if the it problem they're facing could be solved with custom code or not, they don't know where coding starts and where configuring ends - and even I don't know.

just be lazy to start doing it. besides, those guys whos computers you're fixing might not be made of money. it's a charity thing to help people like that without sending a bill, sometimes it gets you perks sometimes not. sometimes the perk is that your own skill and professional level goes up.

but if you start to try to make a business out of your friends, sell them drugs, don't just leech them empty by configuring stuff for them that they don't need.

and I'm not even going to read the article, or the rant there, as the blurb already goes to "complete machine reload" which is actually not needed that often and not even wanted. what's usually wanted is to restore the computer to working order which actually quite often means removing av that is not working correctly. and if you're just doing fresh installs that doesn't need any skill beyond a weekend course so wtf... if you're just doing that you don't need to think 2% than if you managed to fix the problems without going to square one.

Re:Get over it.

[gl4ss]

you don't lose the engine with computers if you install the software faulty.

actually making rumours that you would lose the engine if you installed software faulty is what kept many people in the '90s using systems they paid tens of thousands of dollars for.

but you should remember that a car mechanic isn't a high tech job nor is installing windows.

Re:Get over it.

[Platinumrat]

But it doesn't only apply to friends and aquaintances. How many industries, do the bosses expect unpaid overtime, just because they assume that the job should take less than the time it does?

Re:Get over it.

[jimicus]

I don't know if English isn't your first language or something, but nobody said installing Windows is a pain.

The pain is when your cousin Fred comes to you and says "Hi, my computers running slow, can you take a look? Won't take 10 minutes".

Of course you look and there's so much malware on there it's a wonder it can start at all. By this point it's well past the hope of any AV scanner or malware removal tool, the best option by far is to reinstall Windows. But there's a few problems with this:

• Fred lost the install disc some time ago. Or he never had it, but when pressed about the recovery partition confirms that he deleted it because "he paid for a 320GB disk and he won't have 20GB of it wasted". Now, if you're familiar with Windows licensing you'll know that this is immediately a huge problem. Some OEMs will sell you a new disc, some won't - in any case, it costs hard cash and if Fred wanted to spend hard cash, he wouldn't have called his cousin in the first place.
• Fred does have an install disc. But since he bought his computer, he's installed more pirated software than you can shake a stick at - and because it's a customised OEM install disc, you can't tell it to leave documents and installed software alone. Using it will cause anything else on the computer to be blown away. Perhaps unsurprisingly, Fred vetoes your suggestion of doing this.

This leaves you with "try to recover the computer as best you can with a malware removal product". Which is seldom that technical unless/until you find yourself diving into the registry to remove stuff that was missed, but it's tedious and fantastically time consuming. And I don't mean "30 minutes rather than 10", I mean "10 hours babysitting the damn thing".

Re:Get over it.

[Terrasque]

The fact that you refer to people who "click 'ok' on all the addons their favourite 'free' download site suggests" as "douchehats" is precisely why the rest of the world thinks IT heads are assholes.

You forgot the part with "And they still do it, after I've told them several times not to do it, and they STILL expect me to fix their computer every two weeks for free".

Re:Get over it.

[Anonymous Coward]

It's not the "people are stupid" part that's the problem, it's the "your skills aren't worth anything" part that upsets the PC fixer.

You are not required to help anyone out, much less people who're NOT immediate family or good friends. If you can't say "no" to people who're not even close to you, and if this continues to a point where you're ready to break at a moment's notice due to all the frustration that accumulated over time, but you STILL can't say "no", then you've got a bigger problem than a few wasted hours.

I'm also rather appalled by the "solutions" that were proposed below and then modded to +5. Most seem to revolve around this inability to actually take a stand; some people advocate passive-aggressiveness ("next time my brother the truck driver visits me, I'll ask him to haul my furniture - maybe then he'll realize how he's making me feel"), lying ("play dumb, it works") and so on.

Seriously, people. If you want others to stop treating you like crap (and yes, this IS a crap way of being treated, no argument there), put a stop to it. First, say that you won't put up with it; and if that doesn't work, stop putting up with it and, if necessary, point to the fact that you already said you'd stop putting up with it.

If you can't do that, your problems will never stop.

Re:Get over it.

[Anonymous Coward]

No thats nuking it from orbit

Re:Get over it.

[xaxa]

You may not realize it, but we do. Teacher are always asked t put in extra hours and often bring in supplies.

I never understood this - you get shit pay and they want you to spend some of it on work gear? If my boss did that, I'd get his CC and use that. As it is, these things are reimbursed.

IME, as a son of two teachers, teachers also take supplies from school. I think it roughly evened out. I bought hardly any stationary, I took what I needed from my dad's desk drawer, most of which he'd taken from school. My dad complained about the amount of printing he did for school at home, and wasn't reimbursed for. My mum would occasionally buy stuff for school for the special needs kids (games, baking ingredients etc) but the budget for them was already spent. Some of the games were kept in our house when they weren't needed.

Teachers like to teach, and despise administration, possibly because they have very little flexibility in their day compared to many office workers, possibly because there's always something more useful for the students that they could be doing.

Re:Get over it.

[Anonymous Coward]

> Newsflash: there are douchehats in every profession.
Yeah, and some of them post to Slashdot to imply that its acceptable for jerks to treat professionals (from various fields) with contempt, and then those douchehats suggest we change jobs rather than trying to enlighten the jerks on their behaviours.

Re:Get over it.

[supercrisp]

I don't think it's just computer nerds/techs who suffer this. I used to be in the situation of being a nerd who could also fix cars and do household repairs. And I also owned a truck. It was a nightmare of people wanting free help, free transport..... And my girlfriend was a doctor; she and all of her doctor friends complained about never being off the clock. People really do expect diagnoses in the line at the coffee shop. And now I'm a former editor and current English prof. I've learned to never tell strangers what I do, or I'll end up with some knucklehead pitching a book to me in the line at the post office. I do think that computer fixers have it hard in that most people seem to think that fixing a machine is a matter of instantly backing up the porn and/or pirated music to The Cloud and then pouring in a new box of magic dust. Of course, that said, most of the people pitching books to me or asking me to edit manuscripts--often telling me that we'll get rich together--have no clue about the work involved or the difficulty of actually getting something to press, not to mention how little money there is to be made. Everyone thinks they'll be the next J.K. Rolling-in-Money.

Re:Get over it.

[w_dragon]

After spending 40+ hours per week fixing computers at work, when I get home, I don't particularly want to touch another computer until I get back to work.

Aren't you glad you didn't become a gynecologist?

Re:Get over it.

[MrNiceguy_KS]

Only if you work for Best Buy.

Re:Get over it.

[LordLimecat]

I just salvaged several computers like that in the last 3 months (and in return had several very pleasant evenings chatting with their owners, and getting dinners). You can tell when they are fixed through a number of ways-- a still-rooted PC (rooted with the common, commercially made rootkits) will reinstall the noticable elements of the infection within a few days. If you identify the particular rootkit or virus, you can generally find out the symptoms too-- an infection with Sality will go adding autorun.infs to network shares, replacing folders with EXE lookalikes, and disabling the task manager. Run the sality repair tool, and those issues should disappear-- if task manager "mysteriously" gets disabled again, you missed some infected EXEs.

And unfortunately, a reinstall/reformat is NOT the only way to be sure-- far from it. The MBR can also be compromised, and a windows reinstall will not fix that always. Network shares can be compromised. External storage can be compromised.

No, the proper way to deal with a modern infection is either A) nuke all backups and data (which im sure is a lovely option to those who are apathetic about their friends), or B) figure out exactly what sort of infection you have and form a workable response. The folks over at BleepingComputer seem to think it IS possible to respond to, and remove rootkits with reasonable certainty. Noone is perfect-- not even the rootkit writers.

The whole "once compromised, never sure" thing may apply to servers, where attackers would have an incentive to craft a specialized rootkit and infiltration attack, but on home computers, id say 90% certainty while retaining all programs and data is better than nuking everything and going for 95% certainty.

Re:Get over it.

[LordLimecat]

Far and away the safest option is to take an image of the machine in a known-good state and restore to that. It'll take about 15 minutes.

We're talking about friends and familiy here. How many do you know who keep images of their computer-- or even can locate their OS (not to mention office) reinstall disks?

There are times to do a reformat/re-MBR/reinstall, but 50% of infections are remarkably poorly done and can be removed in 5 minutes by logging in as a different user (or from a live-boot linux disk) and removing a single EXE from %appdata%. Lots of viruses are trending that way because of the lack of admin-by-default in newer OSes, and its easier to craft a cross-windows virus in user mode than hoping that the user wont freak out at a mysterious popup that makes their screen go dark.

Re:Get over it.

[LordLimecat]

He's mocking this person whos computer he is fixing, on the internet, because she knows less about computers than he does. In my book, that makes you kind of a jerk, if not total douche.

Have any of you complainers thought that maybe a time to fix their computer is also an opportunity to chat with them? You know, be sociable, without calling them morons? Or if not, perhaps a time to sharpen your skills?

I mean, if you like neither the people, nor the work, why dont you simply decline instead of getting up on a soapbox about it?

Re:Get over it.

[b0bby]

What, you mean rebooting it and reinstalling the operating system is not the first, last, and only solution to computer problems?

It's the best solution to malware ridden machines - you can't be sure you've really cleaned all that crap off. And malware problems are the ones that I see mostly these days. My rule of thumb is "would I be happy visiting my bank on this machine?". If no, wipe it.

Re:Get over it.

[rgviza]

>Generally, programmers are not asked to program for free by relatives

However, we are considered a "computer guy" by friends and family, even though we haven't had anything to do with windows outside of using it as a life support system for a shell, browsing slashdot, and email.

Typical conversation:
relative "I think I have a virus, can you help me?"
me "You have the windows install disk?"
relative "No the computer didn't come with one"
me "That sucks, you are screwed"
relative "I thought you were a programmer"
me "I am"
relative "Why can't you fix it?"
me "I could if I had a spare computer, laptop hard drive adapter, subscriptions to the various virus softwares, and the patience to sit there while each of the many virus softwares scans your computer's hard drive. Unfortunately I have none of the above, sorry. Absent this, I could blow away your hard drive and reinstall windows. Then again, you could do that yourself."
relative "Wouldn't I lose my stuff?"
me "Not if it's backed up. You do back your data up right?"

and so on... I don't get upset. I just convince them that I'm not the right guy for the job, because I'm not. I usually don't get bugged again by the same person.

Re:Get over it.

[Anonymous Coward]

But if you screw up enough times they stop asking for your help.

Re:Get over it.

[One Monkey]

http://www.snopes.com/business/genius/where.asp

Re:Get over it.

[Anonymous Coward]

You can't copy PC repair. It's a different issue. Just like you can't steal software, you can copy it.

Re:Get over it.

[element-o.p.]

That thought has occurred to me from time to time :)

Re:Get over it.

[AntiNazi]

Shit pay depends on where you live/work I guess. District I work at teachers make far more than the average citizen in the district, pay FAR less for insurance, have far more paid time off, work shorter hours per day, etc. Basically, if you compare any compensation of theirs to the general public it is well above the average. Yea, they went on strike this year, half of them are douches to me and the rest of my team who, you guessed it, make less, work more, pay more, but we are the "administration" who is keeping all the money for ourselves and they don't make enough.

Re:Get over it.

[Anonymous Coward]

This makes me think of a troll post I wrote some time ago but recently. I believe it was something about having nice offices in a datacenter. Then most of you started bitching about how you are treated poorly at your job. Someone said that you need a network admin union. Then I followed up to his post calling the vast majority of you spineless little fucks that allow others to walk all over you and that ends up trickling down to me when people think they can do the same to me at first.

FuzzyFuzzyFungus hits the nail right on the head. He makes a valid observation, and I still contend that it's because most of you lack any spine or sense of self worth.

Re:Get over it.

[Anonymous Coward]

Apparently they aren't PC Fixers but rather PC F|_|ckers!!!

Re:Get over it.

[SanityLapse]

I've found that people who are "PC fixers" and work for free, still tend to be better then your local paid PC repair shop or the guys at Geek Squad.

Re:Get over it.

[Anonymous Coward]

as opposed to what, places like geek squad who will charge your $200 to screw up your computer even worse?

Re:Get over it.

[Slashdot Parent]

Id be willing to bet that if steve had fired up GMER, or Combofix, or one of Kaspersky's dedicated removal tools

This was what I was wondering. I realize that the only way to be completely sure that you're safe after an incident is to wipe clean and re-install, but why not at least recommend a malware removal tool? I mean, that was what the lady wanted, right? Not a guarantee of safety.

If it were my machine, I'd wipe it for sure. But it's not my machine, so my rules don't apply. The friend would have been satisfied with a tool. So give her the tool and go have yourself a nice, cold brew.

Re:Get over it.

[Slashdot Parent]

The referenced article refers to someone telling a friend that their problem is not something they can fix in 10 minutes for free. I feel this is totally reasonable.

That's because you think the friend in the article wanted her computer fixed, and fixed to a standard of being "guaranteed fixed". She did not want her computer guaranteed fixed, she wanted her problem solved.

Her problem wasn't the malware, it's that she didn't want to pay someone $75 to fix a computer that couldn't be worth more than $100. I think that's perfectly reasonable. So instead of ranting, all the blogger needed to do was say, "Oh, I'm sorry to hear that you got some malware. That's always tricky to fix. Here's what you need to do: download combofix from http://www.combofix.org/. It's a free malware removal too, and it's pretty effective. Go ahead and download and run it.

"If that doesn't work, I hate to say it, but your only recourse is to wipe your hard drive and reinstall everything. What's that you say? You don't have the original installation material because you pirated all of your software? Well, unfortunately, that is probably what caused the malware infection. You really should restrict yourself to using genuine, licensed software if you want to avoid this in the future."

See how I solved her problem in 90 seconds? This is how the friends helping friends thing works. It might have taken her several hours to identify a reputable, free malware removal tool. Look how much time I saved her, and it only cost me a minute or two.

Re:Get over it.

[Shotgun]

So why do people not have the resonance when it takes 2 hours or more to repair their PC? And why do so many of them, despite obviously not knowing how to repair it themselves (or they wouldn't have asked you), seem to think it should have taken you only 10% of that time?

Cause they watched that facebook movie and they saw where this geeky kid threw together a website in one night that is now "valued at" 26 billion. And he knew the cool "hacking" techniques like wget and URL mangling that allowed him to "break into" Harvard's network. Before that, there was Jurassic Park where a 13 yr old girl "knew Unix", and was able to manipulate the entire island with a 3D mouse.

Hollywood has taught the plebes that computers are easy for the digerati. Don't we all have a password cracker with a GUI front end, including a progress bar that knows how long it will take to crack the password?

Re:Get over it.

[jwhitener]

Yeah, we have a doctor in the family, and I can't imagine calling him and expecting free check-ups on a regular basis. The social norms are probably different around computer fixing because
1) usually there are no special tools involved except your brain (a doctor might need to use an MRI),
2) there isn't any well known certification process, and hourly wage and cost varies widely, so most people have little understanding of the value of the computer fixer's skills, (unlike a Doctor, which everyone knows had a particular set of training, and who's high fees garner him a level of respect), and
3) Sometimes the fix is very simple. As simple as, "Are you sure it is plugged in?" Some people know so little about computers that they have no grasp of when something is going to be an easy fix vs a very hard fix.

Re:Get over it.

[sco08y]

these days i just tell people to make sure they get a dual core or quad core, and to look at battery life on laptops. dual and better core gets rid of the busy or runaway process locking up the UI and that is what most people associate with a "slow" computer

I've found paging is the worst problem, and laptops never take enough ram.

Re:Get over it.

[AmiMoJo]

There needs to be some penalty to them for buggering up their computer. If you fix it for free then they lose a couple of hours use and some cups of coffee. On the other hand if they take it to a shop and are charged for the repair they quickly understand the time and effort involved.

You can introduce this penalty without charging or otherwise looking like an asshat by using the restore CD that comes with all shitty consumer PCs. Point out that they need to back up their stuff and if they don't already have one they will have to shell out for an external HDD to do it. Even if you have to copy the files yourself they will have to pay for that. Then they run the restore disc and lose all their apps, as well as probably being returned to Vista with no service packs. Re-installing every program is the price of their carelessness. At that point the usually realise that they don't know their wifi password or email settings - tell them you don't either and they will have to phone the ISP to find them out.

That way you make them appreciate how much work it is and make them feel the pain of a re-install. Even if you have to do some of it for them it works well. Plus next time they might just do it on their own.

Re:Get over it.

[Drugmath]

If you're in a relationship that will end because you couldn't solve a computer problem, you've got bigger issues.

Wow, it's pretty short

[Anonymous Coward]

"Buy a Mac"

Oh snap!

Re:Wow, it's pretty short

[Anonymous Coward]

Over 90% of the world would rather stick with a PC, despite its occasional troubles, than switch to a Mac.

Similarly, I'd rather have the occasional aching balls than a castration.

Capisce?

Re:Wow, it's pretty short

[biryokumaru]

That's why you spend $5,000 on a shiny, underpowered Mac product rather than spending $100 on crappy looking netbook that can perform the same tasks without looking awesome.

Re:Wow, it's pretty short

[Anonymous Coward]

For $5000, you can get an 8 core (Dual quad-core 2.4ghz Xeon) Mac Pro with a 27" monitor and 12 gigs of RAM. What can you get for $100 that's reasonably close in performance?

Re:Wow, it's pretty short

[element-o.p.]

I kept saying that to one particular, anonymous relative who kept needing assistance with his/her computer. Eventually, (s)he did buy a Mac, and guess what? No more virus/malware problems, but this person managed to lose the icons for Word and Excel in the dock (twice) -- one time actually having *deleted* Office entirely, and I'm still not sure how (s)he managed to do that -- and even completely locked the Mac up a couple of times. I use a Mac sometimes too, although I prefer Linux, and have never, ever seen anything like the problems this person has with his/her Mac.

Macs are good, and they are designed to be used by non-technical people, but they are not foolproof. A determined enough user can break a Mac, too.

Re:Wow, it's pretty short

[mywhitewolf]

*nix and an old pc, spend the $4900 on mushrooms to make you think the computer is awesome, the benefit of this is that the awesomeness of your machine will last longer than the macs awesomeness does. :)

Re:Wow, it's pretty short

[Paul1969]

No, they just think Macs are "too expensive."
Fools twice over, in other words.

Re:Wow, it's pretty short

[Anonymous Coward]

"can perform the same tasks" has nothing to do with performance.

Re:Wow, it's pretty short

[serviscope_minor]

"Buy a Mac"

This only really works when you do it at least twice, and make sure the first person is semi-competent.

Person A: Help! My computer is broke! Can you take a look?
Me: Yeah it's dead. Mave you considered these fine products made by Apple?
Person A: ok sure.

[time passes]

Person B (less competent): Help my computer isn't working.
Me: It's dead. Buy a mac.
Person B: Uh my mac isn't working. Person A uses Macs, why not ask him?
Person B: Oh, good idea.

[/me relaxes]

Some users seem capable of accidentally installing a trojan on the embedded micro on their dishwasher.

Re:Wow, it's pretty short

[CrackedButter]

90% of the world don't buy PC's. Business buy in bulk for employees. Parents buy for kids. Those two examples exclude your line of reasoning where people prefer to use a PC. A lot of people just use what's available.

Re:Wow, it's pretty short

[jedidiah]

> Over 90% of the world would rather stick with a PC, despite its occasional troubles, than switch to a Mac ...and that 90% has no real reason to be particularly attached to Windows.

Most of them could just as easily run Linux.

Many of them are just responding to 20 years of herd mentality and FUD directed against anything non-herd.

Re:Wow, it's pretty short

[Anonymous Coward]

A rat with some electrodes hanging out of it's brain. Plus, it only requires watering and feeding instead of feeding from the teats of Jobs.

Working for free

[fiannaFailMan]

My brother, who isn't averse to saying "you can fix my computer", is a truck driver. Next time he comes to visit me while on vacation I'm going to get him to haul some furniture for me. I wonder if that will be enough to make him get the point.

Re:Working for free

[MobileTatsu-NJG]

My brother, who isn't averse to saying "you can fix my computer", is a truck driver. Next time he comes to visit me while on vacation I'm going to get him to haul some furniture for me. I wonder if that will be enough to make him get the point.

What did he say when you told him you didn't have time?

Re:Working for free

[MickLinux]

Maybe you could wait until you really *do* need some hauling, and then pay him double for the gas, his labor being "in the family (free)". Paying double for the gas should help cover maintenance, I figure.

Maybe there shouldn't be a point being made.

Re:Working for free

[Anonymous Coward]

Seriously, how petty would you have to be to demand money to help your brother to move furniture? I've done that for people far less closely related, and they've returned the favor, and all the payment that's ever been involved is maybe a pint or a pub meal.

Not everything is about being paid, you know.

Re:Working for free

[blair1q]

People with social skills know enough to expect a favor in return when asked to do a favor.

Frankly, if your brother is a trucker and you haven't already built up a stack of favors you owe him for hauling your shit around, you've been wasting the privilege.

Re:Working for free

[CannonballHead]

Ever ask him to? Maybe he'd be happy to help.

Re:Working for free

[sco08y]

My brother, who isn't averse to saying "you can fix my computer", is a truck driver. Next time he comes to visit me while on vacation I'm going to get him to haul some furniture for me. I wonder if that will be enough to make him get the point.

He'll probably let you borrow his truck, so long as you fill the tank up. Doesn't everyone do that?

Re:Working for free

[PitaBred]

Your brother doesn't already help with that stuff? I fix my brother's computer (even his work machine) pretty much any time he wants, and in return he helps me with various construction projects when he has the time, and vice versa. I have no idea what the score is any more, because we never really kept track, but I do know that he could call me up any time day or night and ask me for something and I'd do it, and he'd do the same for me. Because we respect each other and wouldn't ask something unreasonable, or if it is over and above it's because it's basically an emergency.

Sounds like your brother needs to learn a little respect.

Re:Working for free

[Rob the Bold]

My brother, who isn't averse to saying "you can fix my computer", is a truck driver. Next time he comes to visit me while on vacation I'm going to get him to haul some furniture for me. I wonder if that will be enough to make him get the point.

What did he say when you told him you didn't have time?

I imagine he said pretty much the same thing 'Mildred' said: "It'll only take you 10 minutes."

Re:Working for free

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, he's your brother FFS, he'll probably load up your furniture and take it where you want it taken. Fix his computer, he's family.

Re:Working for free

[twoallbeefpatties]

If your brother owns a truck, then I can assure you that he is always being asked to help haul things. That is the curse of being The Guy I Know With A Truck.

Re:Working for free

[ToasterMonkey]

My brother, who isn't averse to saying "you can fix my computer", is a truck driver. Next time he comes to visit me while on vacation I'm going to get him to haul some furniture for me. I wonder if that will be enough to make him get the point.

^ This is why iPads, iPhones, game consoles, computing appliances, etc are popular.

Most people don't actually _like_ computers because they are so fragile and require a lot of overhead to solve problems that are not really well defined.

It's gradually getting to the point that networks of "smart" friends & family will not be enough to keep the PC afloat. You're speeding up the transition to the point where people like your brother say "fuck it." If you stop helping him fix things, do you think he would pick up the slack? I bet he, like most, is already there.

Re:Working for free

[fiannaFailMan]

Thanks for all the replies.

Truth be told, there have been times in the past when he has hauled stuff for me for free. But when I'm on vacation, the last thing I want to do is to sit in front of a computer for hours. Likewise the last thing he would want to do when he's on vacation is to sit behind the wheel.

These days I just get out of it by saying I know nothing about PCs, I never use them. I've been telling them for the last ten years that I'm a web developer, not a PC support person, and I expect the message to start sinking in in a few more years.

Re:Working for free

[Tenser234]

There is a dilbert comic I love. http://dilbert.com/strips/comic/2006-02-01/

Re:Working for free

[Anonymous Coward]

why should he pay double anything? some hauling for a computer repair.. depending on the scope of the jobs, it sounds like a fair trade to me.

Re:Working for free

[LordLimecat]

Maybe geeks trying to make points about how big of a sacrifice theyre making, and how stupid everyone else is, has some relation to the treatment they get.

Re:Working for free

[phantomfive]

It will be enough for him to get the point if you say, "no."

Really, when you do things people ask, a lot of times they think you don't mind. It's ok to say no.

Re:Working for free

[mywhitewolf]

haha, i tell this to my wife,

when i met her she had no idea about anything with computers, i taught her everything she knows and got her a job as level 1 tech support / glorified receptionist. now whenever anything computer goes wrong in the house "I'm not the tech support, you are, i don't know anything about fixing computers, i just build web pages." she normally fumes for a bit but fixes most minor issues herself.. i think she just asks me now out of habit then any real requirement for my assistance.

Re:Working for free

[DavidD_CA]

What's sad is that your proposal isn't even a fair comparison.

People really don't get it. They think you can type some secret code into the command line and get rid of the virus, like it's a bad spark plug that just needs to be replaced. They don't value the work and time that goes into such a thing, because to them the computer is just like a car engine.

Whether your hauling furniture or fixing a car engine, no amount of "disaster recovery" will parallel what goes into computer repair.

And the only people reading this guy's letter are the geeks who already know it. *sigh*

Re:Working for free

[Vectormatic]

He'll probably let you borrow his truck, so long as you fill the tank up. Doesn't everyone do that?

i let my sister borrow my second car for a shopping run when i was out of town for the day, i ended up having to retrieve it with a broken alternator belt, flat battery, parked in a wheelclamp zone, blocking the loading dock of a company. If it hadnt been weekend i would have had to pay clamping/towing charges... Never mind the fact that she (well, really the idiot friend that was driving) didnt stop immediatly when red warning lights signaled the belt had snapped.

Now i realize that belt would have snapped anyway, but the way she handled the whole thing just sucked.

In my personal situation, i will NEVER lend out my own car to anyone but my girlfried. the lease-mobile, i hardly care about, just as long as it doesnt violate insurance terms.

Re:Working for free

[TangoMargarine]

saying "you can fix my computer"

Seeing as you're posting on Slashdot, it's a fair bet that you can fix his computer. Now, it's a problem when he says "Could you fix my computer?" </grammarnazi>

Dirty little secret among PC Techs

[DigiShaman]

If the user is that frustrated with technology, we just tell them to get a Mac. Problem solved and we end up both happy.

Re:Dirty little secret among PC Techs

[raygundan]

You've never tried this, have you? The sort of person who is easily frustrated by technology but has been barely getting by on windows gets utterly enraged when presented with different UI paradigms. I know because I tried this "fix" a couple of times for people. The problem isn't that either UI is too difficult-- the problem is that you're dealing with somebody who is utterly refusing to learn anything, and handing them a new OS is asking them to learn quite a few things all at once.

Re:Dirty little secret among PC Techs

[tcc3]

You are part of the problem. Instead of educating, you had them buy a unicorn. Way to go.

Re:Dirty little secret among PC Techs

[RightwingNutjob]

Kinda like putting foam padding on all the sharp objects in your house...

Re:Dirty little secret among PC Techs

[Quiet_Desperation]

I've converted more than a dozen individuals and families to the Mac. All have lived happily ever after.

A before you all geek rage on me, I have steered a few of the young-uns with a clear interest in computers as more than tools toward Linux.

Re:Dirty little secret among PC Techs

[MobileTatsu-NJG]

You are part of the problem. Instead of educating, you had them buy a unicorn. Way to go.

Oh please, you've never heard the term 'Windows rot'?

Re:Dirty little secret among PC Techs

[Anonymous Coward]

Considering that they never really learned the first OS in the first place...

Re:Dirty little secret among PC Techs

[DigiShaman]

Oh yes, I've tried it many times. Generally, they're already at their wit's end with Windows bloatware, viri, and cheapo printers that don't work half the time. Oh, and lets not forget the layers of WiFi management software piled one on top of each other causing even more confusion.

Ok, so I recommend they try out a Mac at the nearest Apple store. I tell them there's generally only one way to do something in the Apple world, but it works 99.99% of the time, all the time. The floor salesman are so good at Apple, I just let them handle that part.

A week or so goes by after hearing they got a new iMac. At which point they love it, but are still trying to get used to navigating the GUI (as you pointed out). But they're not angry or frustrated. They just happen to be in that discovery mode still. But the best part is when they ask me "Hey, on this Apple, where do I find X feature?". I just tell them the truth. "Umm, good question, not sure. But poke around in this menu and I'm sure you'll find it". Well, they do without further assistance and thus feel satisfied and EMPOWERED. Mission accomplished.

Mac, that shit just works man.

Re:Dirty little secret among PC Techs

[DigiShaman]

Ya well, it comes with a rainbow and happy ending. What else did you want from me?

Re:Dirty little secret among PC Techs

[idontgno]

I've converted more than a dozen individuals and families to the Mac. All have lived happily ever after.

That's the power of Saint Steve's RDF. FEEL THE POWER!

Actually, that was the slightly less dickish thing to say than what I was going to say: "All have lived happily ever after, until they decided they actually didn't like something about Apple or iOS, at which point the Apple Customer Relations ninjas assassinated them. But they died before they could fall away from the faith, so that's good."

Yeah, I'm kidding.

Re:Dirty little secret among PC Techs

[raygundan]

I'm not likely to geek rage about anything-- it's interesting to hear it actually worked for somebody. I like macs, although I don't have one because I'm a colossal cheapskate.

Re:Dirty little secret among PC Techs

[Anonymous Coward]

Could be worse, if they have Windows those sharp objects will randomly explode.

Re:Dirty little secret among PC Techs

[Maestro4k]

If the user is that frustrated with technology, we just tell them to get a Mac. Problem solved and we end up both happy.

Yeah, right, because if they're too cheap to pay for someone to repair their PC in the first place they'll be more than happy to buy all new hardware so they can run a totally new OS.

This never works in reality, the type of people willing to switch are willing to learn in the first place, and are less likely to be the type of person the article is addressed to (who pirates software and blindly clicks OK on all warnings). Nor would a Mac save these people, because they'd just happily give the malware rights elevation when prompted, without bothering to stop and think about what the hell is going on when that prompt pops up. It's not so much that they're idiots, it's that they're lazy and refuse to even try to learn what to avoid.

Re:Dirty little secret among PC Techs

[raygundan]

I may just have more stubbornly anti-learning people among the group I do family/friend tech support for. I'm not even remotely anti-Apple... I've had better success recommending iPads as alternatives for people frustrated by computers than macs. Particularly the ones with cellular data-- it removes even wifi configuration from the confusion. I think you're talking about people who have a genuine desire to find a better way to do things and are willing to do a little learning, and I'm talking about people whose primary computer issues stem from a stubborn refusal to learn, rather than from experimenting and failing. I haven't yet run into one of the people you're talking about who hadn't just bought themselves a mac on their own, but I'll keep an eye open.

Re:Dirty little secret among PC Techs

[PitaBred]

I've heard it... never experienced it though. Seems like it mostly happens to people who install and remove programs all day long, download crapware, and so on. Doesn't happen to a normally used system where you install the programs you need to be productive and then just use them.

Dirty little secret: "rot" can happen to any OS if you add and remove enough things. Especially if you don't know or don't care exactly what you're adding and removing.

Re:Dirty little secret among PC Techs

[Fulcrum of Evil]

what you do is this: tell them that it isn't a mac. Instead, it's a BSD box that runs photoshop, MS Office, and generates PDFs as a builtin function, has a 2GHz 4 core cpu, up to 8G of RAM and can run linux in a vm if you want. Mine's about 2 years old and I'll get another in 2 years from now.

Re:Dirty little secret among PC Techs

[ocdscouter]

Ya well, it comes with a rainbow and happy ending. What else did you want from me?

The problem being, there's a set of the consumer public that suspicious of rainbows.

Re:Dirty little secret among PC Techs

[MartinSchou]

Next time tell them they get 90 days free support for OS X and the iLife apps from time of purchase.

You'd be surprised at the amount of simple help they can get on the phone, and the amount of useful links they can get as well.

Re:Dirty little secret among PC Techs

[element-o.p.]

Good job jumping to conclusions, there. You don't know OP's situation, and therefore, you don't know what (s)he tried first.

OP may very well have tried to educate, but may have just been working with someone who refused to learn. I've been there and done that. I had a relative that needed lots of help with his/her computer (staying anonymous to protect the guilty). This person would invariably create a new document in Word/Excel/Publisher, then click the little "x" icon to close the program, click "Yes" when asked to save it before closing, and then would freak out when (s)he didn't know how to find it again later. I don't know how many times I explained how to use the "open recent documents" option in the menu to find the file they had last edited, and I don't know how many times I suggested that (s)he actually use "Save As" to save the document (what a concept...). Sometimes people don't want to learn, especially when it's easier to ask the "computer guru" to help dig them out of the hole their willful ignorance has landed them in.

Second, what if OP didn't recommend Mac because "it's an operating system designed for idiot^Wmommies and daddies" (I wish I could find that video again...), but rather because it's the OS that (s)he is competent fixing? I don't like Windows, and so I work on it grudgingly, if at all. OTOH, I rather enjoy both OS-X and the various Linux flavors and I tend to be rather proficient at them. Consequently, if someone wants me to provide free tech support, IMHO, it's reasonable to require that they use one of these OS's because it's what I can best support.

Re:Dirty little secret among PC Techs

[Anonymous Coward]

I have steered a few of the young-uns with a clear interest in computers as more than tools toward Linux

Someone my cousin goes to school with steered him toward Linux. A week later and I'm over there reinstalling WinXP on an otherwise non-functional family desktop.

Re:Dirty little secret among PC Techs

[geekoid]

I don't have geek rage, but I was wondering why you hate your family so much.

Re:Dirty little secret among PC Techs

[wagnerrp]

but it works 99.99% of the time, all the time

Sex panther. 60% of the time, it works every time. It's made with bits of real panther, so you know its good.

I wonder if Macs have bits of real apple in them.

Re:Dirty little secret among PC Techs

[geekoid]

", viri,"

oh yeah, your a real genius.

Yuo're only using a Mac becasue it's what all the new "Geeks" are using, Based on that one word I suspect you'
re pretty clueless.

" but it works 99.99% of the time,"
Just like on windows.

Oh, and after spending that much cash, it takes more then a week to get over the "look at my new shiny; euphoria
That's why dealers send out card about how people like there new car right away.

The real question how do they feel after a year?

Re:Dirty little secret among PC Techs

[geekoid]

Yeah, but in my experience it's a myth to any who knows what they are doing.

Re:Dirty little secret among PC Techs

[MobileTatsu-NJG]

Yeah, but in my experience it's a myth to any who knows what they are doing...

What are we discussing again?

Re:Dirty little secret among PC Techs

[Anonymous Coward]

You look pretty ignorant writing "virii". Seriously you do.

Re:Dirty little secret among PC Techs

[Quiet_Desperation]

I dunno... sounds pretty ragey to me. :-P

Re:Dirty little secret among PC Techs

[pipedwho]

So far all six people I've 'converted' (same demographic as GP) over the last couple of years keep telling me that it was the single best computer related purchase they've ever made.

That being said, I only recommend them to people that are not going to have a problem in the first place - ie. I don't recommend them to hard core gamers, or people with specific Windows-only specialist software needs.

The total number of hours I spend resolving family/friends IT issues has plummetted to the point where it's actually enjoyable.

Re:Dirty little secret among PC Techs

[Just Some Guy]

The real question how do they feel after a year?

The real question exactly how drunk are you?

Re:Dirty little secret among PC Techs

[mywhitewolf]

"thanks son, you sound like you know what your talking about, but as i have no idea wtf you just said I'm going to continue to jab this screwdriver into the network port because i saw on TV this is how you fix a computer glitch".

Re:Dirty little secret among PC Techs

[mywhitewolf]

to be fair, mac is good for mom and pop because its harder for them to break. but the same could be said about Ubuntu etc. once set up properly it should be fine. windows is the only OS i know of that have made it harder to manage in an attempt to make things easier to manage.

Re:Dirty little secret among PC Techs

[Jesus_666]

It really depends on the user. My dad doesn't know a whole lot about computers. He want his internet, his email, his office and his Solitaire. If there are problems, he usually can't fix them by himself. However, he's still capable of learning new UIs to a degree. When his netbook's Win XP installation was becoming unbearably slow we replaced it with Ubuntu Netbook Edition. Since he was already using Firefox, Thunderbird and OpenOffice everything he needed to relearn were the launcher, the file dialogs and the Solitaire game's UI. Within a week he was at home in his new OS.

Now it turns out that Network Manager has a weird bug that causes it to generate broken automatic settings for the wireless NIC. Since my dad is sick of having to delete those on every boot and my older brother has offered to turn the netbook into a Hackintosh (taking over the maintenance duties) that's what we'll do. I expect my dad to learn the new UI within a week or two. Well, after we found him a decent Solitaire.

I know that there are people who are afraid to move away from Windows 98 because they get confused when things aren't exactly the same in newer versions. Some could easily learn a new UI but simply refuse to. But not all non-technical and/or senior users are like that. Some just don't want to learn more than they need to in order to use their computer for their usual tasks but when presented with a new way of doing so (and some encouragement), they learn that new way and continue with their lives.

Re:Dirty little secret among PC Techs

[the_womble]

I have steered some people with no interest in computers to Linux. Most distros have a very Windows like default desktop, and it works on their existing hardware, so its a much easier jump. The main thing they need to learn is how to install software, and that is not exactly complicated on Linux (assuming a GUI package installer like Synaptic).

You do land yourself with a Linux install, but that is one-off.

Re:Dirty little secret among PC Techs

[zippthorne]

"Umm, good question, not sure. But poke around in this menu and I'm sure you'll find it"

Indeed. Also, when this doesn't work, 90% of the time it's because they overlooked the "help" menu. Often, "Click on the help menu and type the thing you want to do" brings up an easy to read and follow list of instructions.

I think the infrequently used menus like help and window just tend to get psychologically associated with "scenery" and that's why they get overlooked so often.

Re:Dirty little secret among PC Techs

[Vectormatic]

happy ending

Macs do that too these days? that might actually justify the price... I'll have to do some TCO analysis on Mac Vs girlfriend + linux box

Re:Dirty little secret among PC Techs

[unapersson]

Dirty little secret: "rot" can happen to any OS if you add and remove enough things. Especially if you don't know or don't care exactly what you're adding and removing.

Have you ever heard of package managers? They seem to pretty much eliminate that rot.

Re:Dirty little secret among PC Techs

[dargaud]

You've never tried this, have you? The sort of person who is easily frustrated by technology but has been barely getting by on windows gets utterly enraged when presented with different UI paradigms. I know because I tried this "fix" a couple of times for people. The problem isn't that either UI is too difficult-- the problem is that you're dealing with somebody who is utterly refusing to learn anything, and handing them a new OS is asking them to learn quite a few things all at once.

You're mostly wrong. Couple years ago I gave all the family members whose PCs I support a clear choice after the Nth virus wave of the year: either I get you on Linux, or you get a Mac. My sister got the Mac and is happy about it (so happy indeed that she's now completely turned over to the iDarkside, iPhone, iPad, etc), the others chose Linux.

I installed KDE with the Redmond theme: some didn't notice for 3 weeks that it was different (while using it daily for mail, scans, web, office) ! There's only one family member I'm still dithering about: after 10+ years of use, she still can't understand the difference between left-click and right-click and goes in panic mode if the desktop picture changes... So I'm not eager to do ANY change unless the computer dies hard.

Re:Dirty little secret among PC Techs

[Terrasque]

"it's an operating system designed for idiot^Wmommies and daddies" (I wish I could find that video again...)

http://www.deadtroll.com/index2.html?/video/livehelldesk.html~content

Internet Helpdesk, from deadtroll.com

Re:Dirty little secret among PC Techs

[jedidiah]

"different UI paradigms"

That's funny. Monopoly ware subjects it's customers to this on a regular basis.

Linux or MacOS is much more likely to be a stable target.

Re:Dirty little secret among PC Techs

[Anonymous Coward]

"there's a set of the consumer public that suspicious of rainbows"

Yeah, it's the whole gay thing with the rainbows, I think ...

Re:Dirty little secret among PC Techs

[element-o.p.]

That's the one, thanks!

Re:Dirty little secret among PC Techs

[DigiShaman]

Yeah, right, because if they're too cheap to pay for someone to repair their PC in the first place they'll be more than happy to buy all new hardware so they can run a totally new OS.

I've personally seen client receipts that show over $500 worth on new utility software and labor combined that either matches or exceeds the cost of the laptop in the first pace. So YES, replacing a computer can be less costly and provide an upgrade in hardware specs at the same time.

In fact, check out this new Compaq notebook for $329.99. If you get a nasty virus that hoses the OS, it can CHEAPER to throw the fucker in the dumper vs hiring a PC tech to setup the machine, export/import data, and reinstall 3rd party applications.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Compaq+-+Presario+Laptop+/+AMD+V-Series+Processor+/+15.6%22+Display+/+2GB+Memory+/+250GB+Hard+Drive+-+Basic+Black/1271897.p?skuId=1271897&id=1218245812097

Re:Dirty little secret among PC Techs

[Lord Kestrel]

You can do the same thing for $500 with a generic white-box, or probably a little less if you assemble it yourself. Why pay extra for commodity parts if you aren't going to use the one thing that differentiates it from it's competitors?

And for the matter, why use BSD? It died, haven't you heard?

saving the pirated software

[Anonymous Coward]

the part about saving their pirated software made me laugh.

the crazy looks on their faces when they find out they've lost all the warez... LOL.

Re:saving the pirated software

[fuzzyfuzzyfungus]

It's never warez: they always "got it from work" or "lost the CD"...

Re:saving the pirated software

[butalearner]

Actually, there's this:

http://www.magicaljellybean.com/keyfinder/

Which I have successfully used from Wine before. Of course I only saved the Windows XP OEM key (the sticker was illegible) and not the Photoshop one. I figured she can reinstall that if she actually has it. I also installed Ubuntu right beside Windows for good measure, and she actually uses Ubuntu to this day. Of course she has switched most of her computing activities to her Android phone, so it wasn't such a stretch.

Curiosity

[radicalpi]

Personally, I enjoy the challenge in discovering and fixing the problem. Being asked to solve computer problems all of the time can be a hassle at times, but, it can be fun. I'm also the type of person that gets bored and re-installs the OS n a pc to have something to do. Maybe eventually, it'll take its tow and I won't get the same enjoyment out of it, but that hasn't happened yet...

Re:Curiosity

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm also the type of person that gets bored and re-installs the OS n a pc to have something to do. Maybe eventually, it'll take its tow and I won't get the same enjoyment out of it, but that hasn't happened yet...

I used to be the same way. That ended about the time I started spending 11-12hrs a day at work. Once you only have a few hours of awake time at home to spend with family, friends, and house projects, it's a lot harder to justify a "refresher-reinstall". Instead of use a lot more discretion when installing software or just make due with a slightly slower machine.

Re:Curiosity

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh to be young again...

Re:Curiosity

[mrbcs]

You should do this for a living then. I bet within a couple years you will be cured.

Is there anything more annoying that the user who proudly proclaims," I don't know anything about computers!" ? These are the same people that want you to fix it for free... even if it is your business. "Well you sold me the computer so it should work perfectly forever, regardless of the viruses I install on it".

I could only stand about a decade of tech support. Most users have no idea what a backup is until they lose everything the first time. Sadly, a lot of businesses I saw were the same way.

It's a very stressful job. Friends and relatives always think that you can wave the magic floppy disk and save everything they lost... for free of course.

I personally stopped upgrading at XP. If it's Vista, or 7, I just tell them that I haven't used those operating systems and can't help. It's worked as well as telling people that I'm Mac-tarded.

I do NOT miss that business.

Re:Curiosity

[nurb432]

It will happen, burnout will find you. It finds us all.

Re:Curiosity

[PitaBred]

Growing up's a bitch, isn't it?

- Fellow old person

Re:Curiosity

[Fulcrum of Evil]

I'm also the type of person that gets bored and re-installs the OS n a pc to have something to do.

Offhand, I can think of 3 or 4 things more fun than reinstalling windows. Identify the things you do to fill time and stop doing them - you'll have a whole lot of spare time for fun stuff.

Re:Curiosity

[mywhitewolf]

Everyone i knew started this way too.. and use it to build up your customer base! free work for family etc when your not sure enough in your abilities and still learning.

but then when all the new exciting things you learn with each fix becomes - "same old shit, different machine", it gets tedious. also consider that your own projects of re-installing windows etc you can go at your pace, and if you fail you can just "try again tomorrow" or whenever you feel like it, and when you are done you get to use a nice fresh machine.

when your working on someone else computer the only reward is when you finish working on it you get to not work on it anymore.

Re:Curiosity

[Anonymous Coward]

"Maybe eventually, it'll take its toe"

Fixed it for you!

Re:Curiosity

[P. Legba]

Typically, my discovery tends to run along the lines of this:

"My computer pops up this error message when I log in," says mother-in-law.
"That's letting you know that the anti-virus and anti-malware software I installed needed to be updated two months ago."
"Well now it won't let me access my Facebook."
"Your machine is cursed with viruses that have corrupted your system software."
"Can you fix it?"
"Probably...I'm busy these days, but maybe I can get by there this week."
(two days later, from the library on Facebook)
"Sorry you haven't gotten my critical Charles Stanley updates in your e-mails. My son-in-law said he was coming by two days ago but I haven't seen him. Guess I'll just continue to go to the library to spam you."

Nostalgia...

[jcr]

I remember the days when most PCs got their viruses from removable media...

-jcr

Re:Nostalgia...

[pacinpm]

What are you talking about? You can remove ethernet plug, can't you?

Re:Nostalgia...

[Taibhsear]

Stuxnet waves hi from Iran.

Can we get a sign?

[mmell]

"You must be this intelligent to ride the internet. ------>"

Oh, and the "gas gauge" indicators in MS Windows (for example, when installing software), perhaps we could get something like:

"Your wait from this point: 20 minutes"

And somebody please tell me why my hard drive heads are parked someplace called "Tigger 14" . . .

Re:Can we get a sign?

[sconeu]

Ask, and ye shall receive.

Re:Can we get a sign?

[Anonymous Coward]

I saw a ad for a T-shirt with "NO, I WON'T FIX YOUR COMPUTER " written across the front.

I Play Dumb

[Petersko]

It's been 13 years since I did front-line support for home PC's. Back then I spent a lot of time fixing the computers of my relatives.

When I got a job writing and supporting industrial software for a pipeline company I started getting "out of touch" with home systems. Requests for assistance started getting replies beginning with, "I don't know if I can help - I haven't really done that kind of work in a while." Horse crap, to be sure, but it worked.

Now I help my parents when they need it, and recently I replaced a keyboard in my sister's laptop - but requests from cousins, aunts, and uncles have long since stopped.

Play dumb. It Works.

Re:I Play Dumb

[Anonymous Coward]

If your job doesn't allow you to "get out of touch", start using Linux at home if you don't already. That way you can sideline relatives' tech requests with a quick "sorry, I run Linux at home, so I probably won't be any help..."

Re:I Play Dumb

[antifoidulus]

I sort of went along this line, I actually stopped using Windows altogether after a bug in Billy G's software caused it to think that my legitimately purchased copy of Windows was pirated and Billy G made me jump through hoops to use what I paid for. Since I haven't used Windows in years I actually don't know all that much about that POS and tell people so. They eventually stop asking me after I repeatedly volunteer to install Linux on their machines. I tell them that if they had a real OS then I could help them, but since they have a toy I cannot.

Re:I Play Dumb

[Anonymous Coward]

Agree! I just tell people to try rebooting the gigatron. Usually they pick up that I'm joking, but someone once asked me how exactly to reboot the gigatron. I told him there's a jumper inside the case you need to short. He came back an hour later telling me he couldn't find it...

Re:I Play Dumb

[Anonymous Coward]

Now that i am a professional programmer I ask my friends for a ounce of high grade marijuana or a bottle of fine scotch for a reinstall. That way I get to enjoy the shit cleaning fest

Re:I Play Dumb

[Nushio]

This works like a charm. I switched to Linux a few years ago and keep getting "Help me fix Win {XP|Vista|7}". I claim I forgot how to fix those computers (or where options are). :P

Re:I Play Dumb

[Anonymous Coward]

Are you sure it's not your smug, self-ritgheous, self-satisfied personality that made them stop asking you?

Re:I Play Dumb

[Paintballparrot]

Since I haven't used Windows in years I actually don't know all that much about that POS and tell people so.

Yet in your sig you claim that Windows is failing to do today what Unix did years ago. So how do you actually know anything about Windows today?

Re:I Play Dumb

[Anonymous Coward]

Except when they say... "but it will take you only a minute to figure it out!" Thats what I encounter.

Re:I Play Dumb

[Anonymous Coward]

You rascal, Peter. This is Aunt Martha. I'm very disappointed.

Re:I Play Dumb

[Anonymous Coward]

if it's a PC, i say i use a MAC and then recommend one to whoever..

if it's a MAC, i say i use a PC and then recommend one to whoever..

heads up, I've only been asked to fix a MAC once.

Oh, and for a living, i use whatever machine is in front of me.

Re:I Play Dumb

[mywhitewolf]

does it matter? the moochers stopped asking who cares what they think?

Re:I Play Dumb

[Anonymous Coward]

I have a better arrangement. i have freely fixed computers for friends and family for many, many years. Occasionally, I'd earn a plate of cookies for my efforts, but usually it was little more than a half-hearted "thanks". Then, in a few weeks when the same foolish behavior brought about a repeat of the problem, it was then my fault their computers were failing, because, "That never happened before." That became very frustrating.

Now, when someone calls, I tell them I no longer use Windows (true), and have little experience with how do things on it (marginally true) and then cheerily offer to do one of three things: (1) offer to help them find a Mac to buy, or (2) install Linux on their computer, or (3) get them the number of a local company that will clean up their boo-boo's for a small fee, usually in the $400+ range. Most balk at the 3rd option because they usually paid that much for their computer in the first place. They balk at the second option because their programs (read, games) won't work on Linux, and they find a Mac to be too expensive. They then go find another friend to help them.

Problem solved.

Re:I Play Dumb

[laddiebuck]

Amen to that. I always tell them I use Linux these days (not that they understand) instead of Windows so I have no idea how to fix their system. That grain of truth is there, because if they've seen me with a computer it sure wasn't running Windows.

Family and pretty girls still get their machines cleaned, of course.

Re:I Play Dumb

[Anonymous Coward]

Same here, except it's not horse crap. I use Linux and Mac exclusively and I have almost no clue about current Windows problems. I do make an effort for my parents (they help me out a lot). My sister bought a Mac after I said I couldn't help her with her Windows problems. Now she needs my help much less often and it's usually much simpler to fix :-).

Re:I Play Dumb

[Anonymous Coward]

It's been a long time I've been doing the same thing, except that my "at work I'm used to something else" excuse is more along the lines of "I'm sorry I don't use nor know this 'Windows' thingy"

Both of you, behave yourselves!

[mmell]

Now, go watch an .avi of Star Trek.

Re:Both of you, behave yourselves!

[poptones]

Oh, your sarcasm is so 2000's!

We use MKVs now, old man...

Re:Both of you, behave yourselves!

[Anonymous Coward]

that's not always true. Some of us still stream it to the xbox.. which doesn't support mkv -.-'

Re:Both of you, behave yourselves!

[blair1q]

I still use BetaMax.

You see that lawn? Stay off it.

Re:Both of you, behave yourselves!

[Anonymous Coward]

"We use MKVs now, old man..."

MKVwhat? dude... WebM just replaced H.264... for people who matter anyway... now be cool...

Re:Both of you, behave yourselves!

[Anonymous Coward]

WebM? dude... WebM and H.264 are video codecs. MKV is a container. You cannot replace a container format with a compression codec.

Re:Both of you, behave yourselves!

[matt_gaia]

Meh... I still hire my own minstrels to follow me around for my entertainment, so you can get off mine, my childrens' and my grandchildren's lawns.

Re:Both of you, behave yourselves!

[Josh Triplett]

WebM is actually a container (a subset of MKV) as well as a spec for a video codec (VP8) and audio codec (Vorbis).

Re:Both of you, behave yourselves!

[bluemonq]

WebM did not replace h.264. VP8 replaced h.264. WebM replaced .mp4. WebM is based on Matroska, the superset of .mkv, .mka, and .mks. Turn in your geek card.

Re:Both of you, behave yourselves!

[Anonymous Coward]

WebM=VP8+vorbis+container

all in one buzzword

Re:Both of you, behave yourselves!

[mug funky]

U-Matic SP and J-format tape.

your lawn seems to be on my lawn.

Re:Both of you, behave yourselves!

[mug funky]

jack-all has replaced h.264 from where i'm sitting.

Re:Both of you, behave yourselves!

[Anonymous Coward]

That sounds like a dare!

Re:Both of you, behave yourselves!

[poptones]

But he said .avi... which, um, ALSO is simply a container...

Meh!

Re:Both of you, behave yourselves!

[TheCouchPotatoFamine]

if i only had a 'funny' mod point!

Re:Both of you, behave yourselves!

[WhitetailKitten]

It does if you install DivX Plus on the box that's the Windows Media Center host and then pull it off that way. (This does mean having to install DivX Plus, though.)

Re:Both of you, behave yourselves!

[Hognoxious]

your lawn seems to be on my lawn.

Yo dawg!

Re:Both of you, behave yourselves!

[blair1q]

Magnetic wire.

as for your lawn, it seems to be enjoying the position...and the attention

We need a union

[Atroxodisse]

As a person who has fixed more relative's and friend's computers than I care to mention I have to say I think we need a union.

On a related note, I remember one time, about 10 years ago when I was working at a small PC shop. A customer came in and their windows install was hosed. The owner's daughter was the one who used the computer most. This 16 year old did her best to use her 'wiles' to convince me to somehow transfer all of her warez to the new install I was going to do for them. It was so easy to say no. I hope I held back my smirk well enough. Pay for your software.

Re:We need a union

[gstrickler]

As a person who has fixed more relative's and friend's computers than I care to mention I have to say I think we need a union.

Or you could just say "no, take it to xxxx shop", or "Gladly, my rates are $xxx per hour."

Re:We need a union

[poptones]

Takes someone hardcore to say no to JB wiles...

Re:We need a union

[Anonymous Coward]

Priceless, the look on some people's faces when they hear "$85 per hour". The smart ones know they'll get value for money (I guarantee my work), and the others get to feel the sting in the hip pocket nerve (or the pain of the clue bat). Some of these types learn their lesson, and some continue to feed my bank account.

Seriously, I had one pensioner deny it all when I pointed out that clicking on "teen-cheerleaders.avi.exe" was not a recommended course of action. I was back there the following week - he'd actually googled the filename, and tried to download it from a different site. His eyes bugged when I showed him that his browser retained a cache and history. Still, he pays in cash, so that's something.

Re:We need a union

[Anonymous Coward]

She was installing warez in ~2000, so I doubt that.

Re:We need a union

[Blakey Rat]

We need to unionize because you're a pushover who can't say "no"?

Wait a minute, how would a union even fix this problem?

Re:We need a union

[Em Adespoton]

Indeed -- my going rate when I was doing this a decade or so ago was $100/hr, which was generally reasonable. I had a rule that friends and family could discuss their computer issues with me, but if they asked for me to touch their computer, they paid the going rate. If they discussed their problem with me and it was something I knew how to immediately fix, then I'd just offer to do it for them without them asking.

It's now been years since I felt pressured to pull off miracles, but the relationship's still there, as people feel free to tell me their woes and hear my advice.

Re:We need a union

[Anonymous Coward]

Because with unionized labor, there will be a 2nd worker sitting near you, who will point out "union ruels sez.." or he will write up a grievance against you. That is pretty much the only work you will see him do, too.

Re:We need a union

[Anonymous Coward]

We need a union so you'll tell your family/friends you won't fix their computers for free? What good will that do? Are you going to have a union representative by your side at all times to have a backbone for you?

Re:We need a union

[Anonymous Coward]

lovely so she tried to use the feminist lobbied culture programmed gender double standard to get you to do something extra, and you retaliated with preachy finger wagging.. I would want nothing to do with either of you.

Re:We need a union

[Just Some Guy]

As a person who has fixed more relative's and friend's computers than I care to mention I have to say I think we need a union.

As a person who has politely, cheerfully, and helpfully steered extended family and distant social relations toward the appropriate tech support channels, I have to say that you need to grow a pair. At the least, come up with some stock excuses. My personal favorite (which happens to be 99% true): "I wish I could help, but I mainly work on the big computers that run websites and banks and stuff like that, and I'm not very good with Windows PCs. I can help you find a good local shop who can help you, though."

I still do stuff for my immediate family whenever they need it; like I'm going to tell the woman who raised me that I'm not going to spend 10 minutes running a software update for her? But if I haven't hung out with someone for other reasons, and had a meal or a beer or watched a football game with them, then I'm not likely to spend a Saturday disinfecting their PC.

Side note: I never get asked to fix a Mac, even though a lot of my friends have them, know that I know a bit about them, and know that I wouldn't mind helping them. I'd be interested in seeing the average number of support requests per PC versus Mac owner.

Re:We need a union

[ami.one]

This 16 year old did her best to use her 'wiles' to convince me .... It was so easy to say no. I hope I held back my smirk well enough. Pay for your software.

That's the problem right THERE.

No wonder geeks are losing the evolutionary race.

Re:We need a union

[P. Legba]

Since I (finally) convinced my parents to buy a MacBook to replace their aging piece of lard Dell laptop and Compaq desktops, they have had zero difficulties. I've been to fix my mother-in-law's craptacular PC a dozen times.

I've decided to let people know I'll recommend, purchase, configure and maintain their Macs, but I won't touch a Windows PC.

Saying no

[sakdoctor]

You just need to learn to say no. This works 100%:

Did you notice a sign out in front of my house that said "Free PC repair"?
You know WHY you didn't see that sign?
'Cause it ain't there, 'cause repairing dead PCs ain't my fucking business, that's why!

Re:Saying no

[Mordok-DestroyerOfWo]

Best...reference...ever!

Re:Saying no

[Sean_Inconsequential]

Or my response: "I haven't touched Windows since Window 2000, I don't know anything about fixing problems on Windows any more." Which is *mostly* true.

Re:Saying no

[Seumas]

If you have a neighbor who is a plumber, electrician, contractor, or handyman, you'll find that they demand to be paid for their time and their work.

However, those same people will come to you for help with their computers and expect it for free. I'll help out my immediate family and a few friends, but I just only have so much time and patience and energy. It's not even the money. I just don't want to deal with it.

Re:Saying no

[somersault]

Likewise. I was starting to get regular requests at work to fix stuff, but since I passed around the word that I'll charge £20-30 an hour for any future repairs, I've not had any for a while :) I'm not even sure £30 an hour would be worth it..

I did repair a couple of laptops recently for the CEO's daughter, but I did that on company time. One of them now has Ubuntu since they didn't have the restore disk, so she should at least have one good machine no matter what the hell she does with it..

Re:Saying no

[wmbetts]

girl friends don't count!

Re:Saying no

[element-o.p.]

It works for me:

1) Friend: How should I fix ${generic_problem} with my computer?
2) Me: Install Linux
3) ???
4) Repeat as required
5) Profit!!! Well, maybe not "profit", but they stopped asking me for help, anyway :)

Re:Saying no

[Coreigh]

I prefer to tell them what I actually charge for services; if they still want my help then its worth my time. I've gotten to the point where I don't do "free" work, if I do any pro-bono work there is some other significant compensation for me.

Re:Saying no

[click2005]

I passed around the word that I'll charge £20-30 an hour

I do that whenever I get a marketing phone call. I just refuse to listen until they tell me where to send the invoice.

Its also fun to inform call centre staff you are also recording this call for training and/or legal reasons.

Re:Saying no

[Culture20]

Or my response: "I haven't touched Windows since Window 2000...

Friend interrupts: "Great! My computer's Windows 2000 Workstation that I stole from work five years ago. I'll be right over!"

Re:Saying no

[hldn]

unless your family and friends aren't cheap douches.

my mom's harddrive died a few weeks ago. i recovered her data, installed the new drive, and reinstalled windows. she paid me $100.

last week my step-sister's computer refused to boot. something had fucked up her windows install, so i recovered her data and reinstalled windows. $50.

just yesterday, one of my aunts was at my mom's house and couldn't get connected to the wifi. checked the connection, it was fine. checked the IE settings, it was trying to use a dialup connection so i fixed that. $20.

fixing computers isn't my business either, but i'm not going to turn down $170 for really easy computer fixes.

Re:Saying no

[egranlund]

This is what I do - I don't even allow the free option. I just say, if you want me to fix it, that'll be such and such. If they say sure, great, extra money for my next gadget, if they say no then I'm not roped in :P

The only exception is family though - still work on my parent's boxen.

Re:Saying no

[Jerry]

Works for me, too, but I add, for family and friends, "If you want me to support your PC I'll be glad to do so if you'll let me replace Windows with Kubuntu"
So far, about a couple dozen have taken me up on it. Where I used to clean or recover the same Windows box three times in a year, with Kubuntu on it the only time I hear from them is when we chat small talk on Skype, or exchange emails.

Re:Saying no

[CohibaVancouver]

If you have a neighbor who is a plumber, electrician, contractor, or handyman, you'll find that they demand to be paid for their time and their work.

Neighbour? Sure. Friend? Maybe. My friends who are plumbers and electricians and handymen often help friends for free with their problems. Are they asked to rewire a whole house? No. Are they asked to replace a faucet or figure out a wonky socket? Sure. Welcome to friendship.

Re:Saying no

[CohibaVancouver]

my mom's harddrive died a few weeks ago. i recovered her data, installed the new drive, and reinstalled windows. she paid me $100.

Jesus Christ. I hope you're a troll... Did you really charge your own mother? Hopefully she turned around and gave you a bill for the quarter-million it cost to raise you to age 18, including all the brain-stimulating Christmas and Birthday presents.

Re:Saying no

[Anonymous Coward]

I assume you exempt family (such as brother in law, mother in law, etc)? For instance, family helps me move, helps with plumbing problems, loans me a large truck, takes me to the airport, and more. It is more than worth it to spend the few minutes it takes to quash their latest trojan / virus whatever. A quick boot to WinPE, delete the offending files and remove the registry entries and they are good to go. All the help they give me with other things more than makes up for this. Now - coworkers are a different story. They know enough not to ask...

Re:Saying no

[pastyM]

I really have done this and it works, for at least getting them to stop asking for help.

Re:Saying no

[calmofthestorm]

I tried that. It mostly works but a few of my friends then went and installed linux. But then I could fix their computers so it worked out ok.

Re:Saying no

[PrimaryConsult]

Wow, flamebait if I ever saw it.
There are a variety of reasons this could happen:
-The parents acknowledge the skills of their son/daughter and reward accordingly
-The parents have properly instilled a sense of doing work and getting paid for said work, instead of expecting money to come whenever it is needed and services to be rendered whenever they are desired, just because "they are a family".

Re:Saying no

[Paracelcus]

Hey, It'll cost you more to fix this piece of shit than it's worth, it's HOW OLD? Man this thing ain't even donate-able, just drop it off behind Goodwill, they accept electronic recycling. Go to Best Buy and spend $600.00, and keep it as long as the last one!

If it's more than 5 years old, don't fix it!
Learn how to use a fucking computer!
DON'T TELL ME YOU'RE TOO OLD! I'm 67 and I'm not!
Write it down when I tell you something! I will not answer the same question more than twice in a lifetime per person!
Pay me what you think it's worth (friends only) then it's a tip, and I'm NOT in business, I only supplement my pension this way.

Re:Saying no

[Anonymous Coward]

I didn't see a sign saying that on the way in, but it may have been behind the sign saying dead nigger storage.

Re:Saying no

[geekoid]

Sure, my family offers to pay my for my time, but there is no way in hell I'm taking money from my immediate family.
I consider it pretty pathetic. Just like the wont take my money when they help with something I need.

Re:Saying no

[starfishsystems]

Just for the record, I don't see this as insulting to anyone, except perhaps really lazy people.

Same thing happened when I bought a truck. Suddenly all sorts of people who I didn't particularly regard as friends were wanting to buy me coffee in exchange for me helping them to move a household across town. My answer: thanks for the coffee. Now about my driving fee, it's $150 per hour, I don't lift anything, and I'll need a $5000 cash damage deposit in advance. If you're okay with that, great. Otherwise, check the phone book under "Moving and Storage" or "Truck Rentals".

Re:Saying no

[Glonoinha]

What works for me :
Will you work on my computer?
I only work on computers for women I'm dating. How's this weekend sound?

(Needless to say, I don't fix a lot of computers.)

Re:Saying no

[hairyfeet]

You charged you own mama? Boy that's just...that's just so wrong it ain't even funny! Now telling her it'll be a while so she'll make you supper that's one thing but taking cash from close family just to fix a basic fuckup? That's low man.

The only ones I do "freebies" for are my parents, my kids, and my GF and her immediate fam (parents and kids) but I get compensated in different ways which is called being family like my GF's mom insisting on whipping up a big deer steak dinner (man that was good eats!) or her daughter whipping up some nice chocolate chip cookies fresh from the oven (mmmm good!).

They say the way to a man's heart is through his stomach, and I'd say that goes just as well for his tech skills. But charging money to your family? that's just sorry. Hell I've frankensteined whole PCs out of the junk pile in the back of the shop just because a family member had their PC blow and was having a rough time, it's called "family takes care of their own". Maybe its just a southern thing if there are folks really charging their own mamas.

Re:Saying no

[TaoPhoenix]

Yeah really what's with charging money to family? If they did the honest value-for-services they'd get hosed.

All you have to do is lock down their systems kinda tight and release a setting or two when they get upset it doesn't do X.

Spend 18 min fixing some crazy edge case problem. Then off you go.

The people who wanna charge $30 for tech services are gonna get denied the $1000 loan when their car breaks.

Re:Saying no

[Lord of Hyphens]

I did a "nuke the site from orbit" job on my sister's machine which had gotten infected from something she did to it. Spotting limewire on the machine, I uninstalled it and told her if it happened again (ie, her machine is loaded with malware and she's got crap like limewire installed), she'd have to pay me to clean up after her.

Re:Saying no

[flappinbooger]

unless your family and friends aren't cheap douches.

my mom's harddrive died a few weeks ago. i recovered her data, installed the new drive, and reinstalled windows. she paid me $100.

last week my step-sister's computer refused to boot. something had fucked up her windows install, so i recovered her data and reinstalled windows. $50.

just yesterday, one of my aunts was at my mom's house and couldn't get connected to the wifi. checked the connection, it was fine. checked the IE settings, it was trying to use a dialup connection so i fixed that. $20.

fixing computers isn't my business either, but i'm not going to turn down $170 for really easy computer fixes.

I'll fix comps for free for my parents and my wifes parents because of all the free babysitting and etc. Most everyone else - not for free. Fixing computers is my business. Just the same, I don't just "recommend" linux. Most people aren't capable of dealing with something that requires command line. I don't just haphazardly make recommendations, sometimes it's best to keep quiet unless asked for recommendations.

Re:Saying no

[Anonymous Coward]

Just like the wont take my money when they help with something I need.

Well, if one of them is an English teacher, I'd say that you definitely got your money's worth.

Re:Saying no

[tomhudson]

Just the same, I don't just "recommend" linux. Most people aren't capable of dealing with something that requires command line.

The Clinton Era called - they want the other troll back.

Re:Saying no

[tomhudson]

Write it down when I tell you something! I will not answer the same question more than twice in a lifetime per person!

So the 3rd time you moved in your life, you stopped giving out your new address and phone # when they asked "So, where did you move to?"
I guess that's one way to keep them from asking you to fix things. Kinda harsh, though ...

Re:Saying no

[KahabutDieDrake]

No, it's not just a southern thing. Some of us in the west respect our families too.

I do free tech support for family members, and I'm almost always richly rewarded in some fashion. It has never once been money. I've gotten literally dozens of fresh baked cookies delivered to my home once a day for a week straight, because I recovered a "dead" hard drive loaded with family pictures and videos, for my cousin and her husband. I almost always get dinner at my choice of places when I do any tech work for my mom. That's our little secret agreement. My Dad works on my car so much I couldn't even begin to complain when wants help with his computer, which is almost never. Various other "in kind" of deals among family. I built a website for my Grandma to showcase her garden (it is rather spectacular), and got I don't know how many pounds of fresh Elk and home made sausage, it was super yummy. Etc etc. Cash money though... no way. Not from family. This is what I do for a living, and I make a good living, I don't need the cash, and I do want the good will (and the yummies).

Re:Saying no

[Anonymous Coward]

I've got Trojans installed on my parents computer.

Whenever I need some beer money I flip the switch on.

Then I go upstairs,"fix the problem" and collect. Profit!

Re:Saying no

[contrapunctus]

http://www.thinkgeek.com/tshirts-apparel/unisex/frustrations/388b/

Re:Saying no

[mywhitewolf]

No. Are they asked to replace a faucet or figure out a wonky socket? Sure. Welcome to friendship.

I consult for free to family and friends (eg: "you need a computer technician to configure your router, it will cost about $60 an hour. but that's probably why your internet isn't working on your brand new device.", a lot of times family and friends contact me because they don't know who they can talk to and what they can do to get it fixed.) but if i am required to do any actual work i expect something in return. I don't ask you to come over and do some annoying and frustrating task like cleaning my oven without offering anything in return, its not about the money though, I'll accept a good home cook meal or a 20 min neck massage or whatever you can offer that I'd consider worth my time. my brother in law does my lawn, my mum looks after my accounting or will cook me a nice home made meal. some rent "problems" disappeared after i fixed the network of the real-estate agency ( only to return with new owners :/ ).

in the end i just say "I'm too poor to fix your shit for free" because a "free fix" costs transport and energy which is a tangible cost. So I'm not actually fixing for free, I'm paying for it.

2 exception though
1) wife / girlfriend, not fixing the device is more frustrating and annoying to you than fixing it, plus you can physically abuse the source of the frustration without being arrested.

2) is if you are learning, if your not confident in your technical abilities then you should offer your services for free without any expectation of being paid for your work, also because of
a) it gets you more work, lots of people will let you learn on their broken systems for free in an attempt to get a working product for free.
b) if you're in over your head its a lot easier to back out. it takes years to have a good system of scape goats and "specialist" contacts to play the "passing the buck" game with.
c) learning to fix / doing the fix while your learning is more entertaining, to crusty old people like myself its irritating and frustrating, but i remember being younger and being excited to try and fix something new.

Re:Saying no

[mywhitewolf]

although in theory this works, I'd prefer not to risk getting into a big 4 hour fix because what should have been simple wasn't.

Re:Saying no

[hairyfeet]

Exactly! It is called "taking care of your own" and something we in the south take very seriously (well unless you're trash, and we don't hang around them kind) and as you said it all comes back around or as we say "it all evens out in the wash".

Like a couple of weeks ago I had to go out and deal with a hum dinger of a PITA when my dad had accidentally updated his MSN messenger and the one he had before had a feature the new one doesn't that he needed (something about the way the camera accesses allows him to activate the camera for his old HS sweetheart who is even worse with tech than he is and can't work the stupid thing) so I spent ages getting that stupid thing cleaned up and set back EXACTLY the way he had it before.

Well wouldn't you know it I come out the other morning and have a flat, so I call dad who has an account with the tire shop down the street to see if he can have them come patch the thing. He says "no problem just leave the keys under the mat so they can pick it up" and when I got back that afternoon not only didn't I have a flat but I had 4 new tires since he "had them check it and the rubber was getting a little thin".

So you do what you can and you take care of your own. Now I can understand threatening to charge if they refuse to listen and just keep doing dumb shit, but if your family has any sense (and mine does) they look to you for advice and will do what you tell them so a little prevention takes care of a lot of it.

Now I just deal with the occasional busted program or fried part, like the old dinosaur 733MHz I'm taking to MY GF's boy this weekend so he can check his email until he can afford something better. The kid just had to shell out nearly a grand in car repair and his old rig bought the farm, so this is one less thing he has to deal with while he gets his money back on track. Of course once I drop it off I'll be going down the street to spend the weekend with my GF, where I'll have a big home cooked dinner all waiting there for for me just pretty as you please. It all evens out in the wash you see, it all evens out in the wash.

Re:Saying no

[nmos]

That's ok I don't have Windows....I have Office

Re:Saying no

[mywhitewolf]

so instead of trading money for services your trading "favors" for services. And i consider yourself pathetic because you lean on your family every time you have a "need" and burden them with your problems. I bet your family is the first port of call if you need money too?
I've married into this sort of family and it drives me nuts, calls every weekend to help with some minor task. Where as my family is highly independent, and pays / rewards me for my time and effort. Your not "helping the family" your doing a service call for a luxury item. IF a fix is required so they can pay bills or submit assignments or whatever, then yes, I'd help out family and close friends for free if they couldn't afford to pay me (or for whatever reason could return the favour in a hot meal). but to do it because they are family sounds like your opening your self up to being used and abused.

Re:Saying no

[mug funky]

but she's got all viruses and shit! you don't wanna tap that!

Re:Saying no

[Anonymous Coward]

love the southern slang you threw in there for authenticity..

Re:Saying no

[gknoy]

If only I could honestly feel that was a viable solution for my father's computer and his 700+ ITunes songs that are all entangled with DRM, as he bought them before DRM-free was the norm. I can't really argue that it's better when I then have to say, "and by the way you need to pay $700 to upgrade your music collection in order for Linux to actually be able to read it ...". It made me very sad.

Re:Saying no

[secolactico]

Funny and sad because it's true. I've gotten that answer along with "Word", "Peachtree" and "Nero".

Re:Saying no

[vidnet]

5) Profit!!! Well, maybe not "profit", but they stopped asking me for help, anyway :)

Time is money, and a penny saved is a penny earned.

But really though, what happens if it backfires, they install Linux, and you become their only contact for questions like "How do I install Counter-Strike on my lainucks?"

Re:Saying no

[blackest_k]

i compromise, i'll fix windows and convert the system to dual boot ubuntu (lucid) as well.
no dual boot you can find someone else to fix it.

i haven't found a system yet where ubuntu doesn't perform better than windows on the same system.

if windows gets trashed a second time, they can boot ubuntu until i get time to fix windows.

I also throw in some training on the ubuntu system a pdf of the ubuntu user guide and make sure their bits and pieces work.

I dislike windows,but i aso accept sometimes its needed but most of the time it isn't and i've found that most people can get on well with ubuntu and will use windows when there is no alternative.

Re:Saying no

[cyclomedia]

So long as they provide a continual flow of cups of tea, pizza and beer (each following on, depending on the length of the task at hand) I'm happy to have a go. Even if the end result is that I actually am unable to fix the damned thing but spent the *hic* entire weekend *burp* trying my damndest *thud*

Re:Saying no

[marcello_dl]

Unless of course you consider your family a unit, then trading anything is pointless, such as a heart charging the rest of the body for the act of pumping blood.

It's interesting to see how the zeitgeist equates independence from family with independence.
The atomized families of today, compared to the families of the past, depend more heavily on the system (what we used to call society). The worst example I recall involves those who listened to the politician that called them bamboccioni and got indebted to buy a house, at high market prices, just before the economic crisis.

If replying please avoid the "how bad things were in the past" false cause fallacy.

Re:Saying no

[Baron_Yam]

Perhaps you'd get some success if you advise you only work on computers for women who are performing a sexual act upon you.

Sure, it's not as fulfilling, but you get SOMETHING.

Re:Saying no

[Onuma]

http://xkcd.com/456/

Re:Saying no

[Xamataca]

I am a wXP 64 user... sorry for that, but I've learned how to deal with those pesky friends/familiars: Get them an Ubuntu live usb pendrive.

Re:Saying no

[element-o.p.]

Sweet! Thanks for sharing :)

Re:Saying no

[Anonymous Coward]

So in other words, the infections you had to deal with weren't just on her computer?

I quit using PCs

[OrangeTide]

And switched to Linux/Solaris/NetBSD. Now I can claim ignorance when presented with some Windows related issue. And people quit asking for my help when I started suggesting they try Ubuntu instead.

Re:I quit using PCs

[Svartalf]

You mean you quit using Windows on a PC platform. "PC" does not equate to "Windows Machine".

Re:I quit using PCs

[igb]

I've worked in IT continuously since graduating in 1986, I'd been using computers in various guises for ten years prior to that, and I'm now a post-graduate mature student. I've never used Windows for more than ten minutes at a time, and know nothing about it. Oh sure, I've architected multi-platform systems including windows, and managed staff, and procured equipment, and I know roughly how to plan an AD deployment and can even mutter about cross-domain trusts and group policies and update servers and when you need a CAL. But in terms of anything approximating providing desk-side support: nothing. No rebuilds, no installs. My desktop was SunOS/Solaris from 86 to about 2005, and Mac since then. My friends and family know that, so I never get asked.

Re:I quit using PCs

[danomac]

If you had two PCs side by side, one with Windows, and one with, say, Ubuntu, and asked an "average" user which one is a PC and they'll invariably point to the Windows machine. Of course it's not correct, but it's true for most of the population.

Re:I quit using PCs

[Fulcrum of Evil]

Good luck with that. PC == windows for most of the public, so that's what it is.

Re:I quit using PCs

[sqldr]

Well of course, it was part of the "IBM PC" trademark. I had a C64 at the time. I called it a (drumroll) "computer".

Re:I quit using PCs

[bongey]

When someone brings me their pc with a problem I do the following:
Stare at boot screen
Ah ha I found the problem
Pause, Pause some more
Your problem is Microsoft Windows
I then hand them an ubuntu disk and walk away it works wonderfully.

Re:I quit using PCs

[geekoid]

yes, yes it does. Welcome to the new millennium. Let me catch you up:
Linux = Linux computer
PC = Windows computer
Mac = Apple Computer

Yeah, you can bitch about the technicality, but in the real world, that is what is said.

Re:I quit using PCs

[Anonymous Coward]

You mean you quit using Microsoft Windows.

Microsoft may have a trademark on the word "Windows" written alone, but the term "window systems" by far pre-dated MS-Windows, including some with "Windows" in their names.

Re:I quit using PCs

[Anonymous Coward]

Dude, he just said he's claiming ignorance!

Re:I quit using PCs

[Anonymous Coward]

I know this is trollish, but it's the truth.

I took a similar route, but I just got them to switch. The key is dual booting and not forcing them. My mom's computer now runs stable gentoo as the default boot option because she got tired of selecting the windows xp boot option.

On a side note, why do I have to comment on the side of the page rather than underneath the comment (and I enabled all the js)

Re:I quit using PCs

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe he switched to minicomputers, graphics workstations, or tablets at the same time he stopped using windows.

Re:I quit using PCs

[Anonymous Coward]

Unless he switched to using Linux/Solaris/NetBSD on a Mac platform. That is also possible.

Re:I quit using PCs

[Anonymous Coward]

I cannot believe this was even needed. OrangeTide, c'mon; they're all Personal Computers.

Re:I quit using PCs

[varmittang]

Remember who you are talking about, and that most think Word is their OS.

Re:I quit using PCs

[TheThiefMaster]

They'll say "they look the same to me" because they both don't have a white case with an apple logo on.

Re:I quit using PCs

[sorak]

yes, yes it does. Welcome to the new millennium. Let me catch you up:
Linux = Linux computer
PC = Windows computer
Mac = Apple Computer

Hard Drive = Windows computer owned by an idiot.

Re:I quit using PCs

[GameboyRMH]

The PC == Windows concept didn't exist before the Mac vs. PC ads, I doubt many people think this.

Nick Burns - The Computer Guy wrote this letter...

[acedotcom]

oblig.... http://dumpalink.com/videos/Nick-Burns-Your-Companys-Computer-Guy-193e.html

My solution

[gujo-odori]

My solution is simple: I refuse to touch Windows machines. The help choices I offer are:

1) I'll install Linux on it for you

2) I'll help you choose an appropriate Mac for your needs

No takers on either so far, and I don't often get bothered.

I went a little more in depth with my wife's cousin's wife, whose kids had installed Limewire and who knows what else on it and whose trial version of Norton had come with the computer and had expired over a year prior: I can't fix this, it's Windows and would be a bit out of my depth trying to fix it. If it were a Mac or a Linux machine I could, but if it were that, you probably wouldn't have this problem in the first place. You only have the manufacturer'l "Damn the data and re-image the disk" recovery CD, which makes it even harder.

At that point, I advised her to just write off that desktop (which she was using for her work as a real estate agent) and get a good laptop and never allow her children to touch it. I also offered to set up a second wireless network in their house that her computer and her kids' malware-infested computers never shared the same network. That was nearly a year ago, and I'm pretty sure she hasn't acted on any of that advice.

One of the morals of the story here is that if you are buying or selling a house, it couldn't hurt to ask prospective agents what they do to protect any data you give them. If they are utterly clueless about computers (as nearly all agents are), you'll find out soon enough.

Re:My solution

[PitaBred]

The other moral is that you're an asshole who thinks he knows more than he does. Windows isn't that hard, and pretty much every modern Linux boot disk can mount a Windows partition of any kind, so you could have easily done data recovery at bare minimum before doing the "damn the data and re-image". It wouldn't have even taken any special skills on your part, no knowledge about how Windows works, just an external drive and your existing Linux "skills".

I hope she eventually found a competent tech instead of a self-aggrandizing, elitist prick.

Re:My solution

[Ungrounded Lightning]

pretty much every modern Linux boot disk can mount a Windows partition of any kind, so you could have easily done data recovery at bare minimum before doing the "damn the data and re-image".

And then you put the data back - and the viruses right along with it.

Sorry, Pita. It's not that easy. Cleaning the viruses from a saved image of an infected system is a job for pricey tools from the multi-billion-dollar Windows anti-malware industry. And those tools want to work on something THEIR toolbox rescued, not an image snapped by a Linux boot disk.

Re:My solution

[PitaBred]

It most certainly is that easy. Real-estate types often have tons of PDFs, word documents, and so on. Perhaps pictures of kids, all kinds of data files that are easily scannable or just not infectable, but quite irreplaceable.

Is everyone on slashdot both an asshole and incompetent at computer repair? Or did I miss some sarcasm in your post?

Re:My solution

[Fulcrum of Evil]

Or maybe he doesn't want to be stuck doing PC support for his wife's cousin's wife. Doesn't sound like they offered to pay going rates for it either.

Re:My solution

[PitaBred]

Then he should have said that to them instead of lying, being a douche and/or incompetent.

Re:My solution

[Anonymous Coward]

pretty much every modern Linux boot disk can mount a Windows partition of any kind, so you could have easily done data recovery at bare minimum before doing the "damn the data and re-image".

And then you put the data back - and the viruses right along with it.

Sorry, Pita. It's not that easy. Cleaning the viruses from a saved image of an infected system is a job for pricey tools from the multi-billion-dollar Windows anti-malware industry. And those tools want to work on something THEIR toolbox rescued, not an image snapped by a Linux boot disk.

You are effin crazy. And elitist like the other person said.

Get (or make) a distro that has BitDefender (the best one
I've found yet) or ClamAV and fix the computer, rescue the
data, be a hero... or STFU and GTFO.

Re:My solution

[gujo-odori]

More competent than you, it seems. And certainly a lot politer.

There's no point in fixing a machine in an environment where:

1) They won't remove any of the offending software
2) Never back up anything
3) Refuse to learn anything about how to maintain a computer

Even if I were in the habit of carrying recovery tools with me on vacation, there would have been no point in using them. I don't even take a laptop on vacation. I make lots of money taking care of very expensive systems. I don't touch computers when I'm on PTO. Not even my own.

OK, screw the politeness. It ain't my job to fix computers for people who won't even try to keep them fixed. It ain't my job to fix computers when I'm on vacation. It ain't my job to fix computers for free. And nothing I told her was wrong. There was absolutely nothing I could do for that machine with what was at hand (a vendor recovery disk, and nothing else). So go fuck yourself.

Wow, imagine it. *You* calling anyone else an elitist prick douchebag. Been near a mirror lately? Man, I feel sorry for your kid, having a dad like you.

Why open source is better

[MettaBen]

We techies need to help guide people toward safer sources of software that won't infect their machines. Open source software from reputable sources is generally much safer than pirated software from the darker corners of the internet. If you pirate software, you need to take inconvenient precautions like setting up a virtual machine that you can assume is totally insecure. Yet another reason to choose open source.

Re:Why open source is better

[Anonymous Coward]

Malware makers can impersonate legitimate software makers. For example, google for VLC, and look at how many fake sites there are (the real one is http://www.videolan.org/). Right now, the highest suspicious one is only #5, but if they can SEO themselves above the real site (or buy an ad placement)...

Re:Why open source is better

[pauljlucas]

Or you could just tell people not to pirate software and instead buy directly from the vendor. Closed-source software from reputable sources is just as safe.

Re:Why open source is better

[Anonymous Coward]

fallacies abound.. pirate software is not the only nor the most popular vector. IP only works in the minds of people high in the ivory tower.. the rest of us down here do what needs doing to get done what needs to get done.

This guy is a noob.

[Anonymous Coward]

Not only does he think its impossible to remove an infection without a complete reinstall, he recommends AVG. What a lazy tool this guy is!

Re:This guy is a noob.

[Changa_MC]

He's not wrong about the infection of course - you have no way of determining whether an infection has overwritten basic driver files such that it is literally impossible for your OS to see it, let alone remove it. A clean boot CD will find it, if it's a known infection. Generally I just clean with antimalware and antivirus software and if the computer seems to be running at full speed with no obvious tells call it good enough -- but if you actually care about your data, it is not.

And AVG is OK home use, have you tried it? It installs for free, it auto-updates fine and it keeps most crap from infecting a machine. It's a couple years beyond its peak now, but for people who don't even reinstall after pwnage, it's surely good enough.

Re:This guy is a noob.

[PitaBred]

Speaking of noobs... the irony is palpable.

It's not impossible to remove an infection. It IS impossible to be sure you have removed ALL infections. AVG is perfectly serviceable, even if it has gone downhill lately. I honestly just recommend Microsoft Security Essentials any more... fast, low clutter, and it just works, at least as well as any other commercial program.

Re:This guy is a noob.

[thsths]

> It's not impossible to remove an infection. It IS impossible to be sure you have removed ALL infections.

Which is exactly the problem. Some people want to do the job well, and there is no way of knowing whether you did or not.

And most people competent with computers have very little experience with malware infections, so they are indeed out of their comfort zone. I think it is perfectly fine to say so, maybe make a quick attempt at rescuing the situation (quick unfortunately means no full backup), and leave it at that.

XKCD

[jgtg32a]

http://xkcd.com/691/

Re:XKCD

[Anonymous Coward]

This one is more on point:

http://www.xkcd.com/627/

Re:XKCD

[jgtg32a]

Yea, but I enjoy linking to a random XKCD and getting modded up for it. I've found that everyone with mod points assumes I'm linking to the one they are thinking about.

Re:XKCD

[TangoMargarine]

You forgot the obligatory 'obligatory.'

Also, is that that 'that' that that 'that' refers to?

Worthless?

[poptones]

If the skills of a pc-fixer are worthless, why even ask someone to do it? If the fixer is as worthless as an ass wiper, why aren't as many people asking others to wipe their ass for them as there are expecting free anti-software support?

Re:Worthless?

[Anonymous Coward]

I used to do it too, for everyone I knew, friends, work, family etc, and it got really irritating not only because they always called me at odd hours and any time they felt like it, but they also made the same damn mistakes. They aren't stupid, just unwilling, I mean, why bother learning something I show in five minutes, when they can call this idiot any time something goes wrong.

So, I've stopped doing it, when someone asked, I use linux, my knowledge is out of date, I don't have time, and so on. Now, they only call me when they're truly desperate, deadlines looming, sensitive data in danger and so on, and they pay, oh yes, they pay.

Re:Worthless?

[fishbowl]

>If the skills of a pc-fixer are worthless, why even ask someone to do it?

Say for instance that I have all those skills and more. Say for instance that my time is valued in the $300/hour range.
Say for further instance that you have been unemployed for six months, living in my guest room, eating from my fridge.

I'd say it might be in your interest to fix my PC or clean my gutters or any other menial task I put you to.

Re:Worthless?

[Anne_Nonymous]

>> unemployed for six months, living in my guest room, eating from my fridge

Are you still taking applications for this position?

Re:Worthless?

[Anonymous Coward]

That depends on the percentage of tiger blood running through your veins, and whether you are a winner or not. Any experience as a Vatican assassin warlock is a plus.

Re:Worthless?

[demonlapin]

That's just back rent, although the fact that you haven't booted them after a week suggests that mooching is a successful long-term strategy.

Re:Worthless?

[Fulcrum of Evil]

well there's a reasonable response. Personally, if I think someone only wants to deal with me so I can fix their computer, I don't need them around. Plenty of people in the world enjoy my company and don't want PC help.

Re:Worthless?

[geekoid]

"..other menial task I put you to."
ah, your not helping them so much as indenturing them. That explains much.

Whilke they would be an ass, rude, and selfish for not helpuing you around the house, that doesn't mean you should put them to a task.

Ask them, sure.

Now it would be polite of them to do the work, there is a difference.

And if someone was in my guest room for 6 months, not actively looking for work and not doing anything around the house, I may ask them to leave.

I don' t know because my friends and family wouldn't do that.well, the ones who would I cut out of my life decades ago.

Re:Worthless?

[flappinbooger]

I used to do it too, for everyone I knew, friends, work, family etc, and it got really irritating not only because they always called me at odd hours and any time they felt like it, but they also made the same damn mistakes. They aren't stupid, just unwilling, I mean, why bother learning something I show in five minutes, when they can call this idiot any time something goes wrong.

So, I've stopped doing it, when someone asked, I use linux, my knowledge is out of date, I don't have time, and so on. Now, they only call me when they're truly desperate, deadlines looming, sensitive data in danger and so on, and they pay, oh yes, they pay.

Smart man. Also - For the curious wannabe techie who "just wants to watch" comes around - it costs twice as much if someone want to watch. That shuts them up real quick. No exceptions.

Re:Worthless?

[mywhitewolf]

Charlie Sheen's out of work ATM and i hear he is quite the winner.

Re:Worthless?

[i-linux123]

They don't necessarily think the fixer is an idiot, they just think that "knowing PCs" is equivalent to "knowing exactly what each and every file in the c:\windows folder is and does." and when they mention "virus" because the PC isn't functioning the way it's suposed to, then you'll know exactly what's wrong and can fix it with no effort. I've "repaired" some PCs in my time, but on the very, very, rare occations someone asks me to fix their PC I just tell them to call their neighbors kid or something (In the hopes that they will understand the perspective here).

Re:Worthless?

[AYeomans]

I now offer people a Linux Live CD - such as Ubuntu. Tell them it will get their machine working, they can recover the files, and I won't need to see their private stuff.
Now if they are the type who like clicking "yes" to everything including the "install" option, well, that's another problem fixed for good.
Support by email - http://lmgtfy.com/ and http://giyf.com/ are good pointers.

Re:Worthless?

[xaxa]

So, I've stopped doing it, when someone asked, I use linux, my knowledge is out of date, I don't have time, and so on. Now, they only call me when they're truly desperate, deadlines looming, sensitive data in danger and so on, and they pay, oh yes, they pay.

I used that with a flatmate (not my choice of flatmate, just a temporary place I was living for a few months). She installed Ubuntu on the PC.

(A little later I agreed to show her how to do things on the PC if she cooked a meal for me.)

Re:Worthless?

[Stuarticus]

Haha, me too, the best thing about the switch to Win7 is I can say I'm not familiar enough with it to help you out!

Re:Worthless?

[P. Legba]

Going through this transition right now. Mother-in-law backs me into a corner about her stupid antique computer and her bottom-of-the-line Time Warner cable modem. I agree to come get rid of all her virii, save her data and make sure the "Facebook on her computer" is okay. Don't get there in the next two days, and suddenly my slackness becomes a matter of public discussion in mass emails and Facebook postings emanating from the County Library.

I'm done. I'll advise you on the purchase of the Mac, set it up and check it when you have problems. I will no longer fight Windows 98, XP or Vista, and I will no longer recommend the installation of Microsoft Office on Macs, given the alternatives.

Done. There are businesses for this, and I'm not one of them. I've got hackintoshes to build, not Windows idiot boxes to fix.

Fixed

[Anonymous Coward]

restoring a vmware snapshot fixed my computer from my own stupidity. what snarky comments should i be saying to myself for that?

Correct target?

[Quiet_Desperation]

How about a screed against his fellow technical people?

You know, the one who *create* the malware and junkware and root kits and junk operating systems and whatnot.

Re:Correct target?

[Anonymous Coward]

Vaguely moralizing, smacks of right-wingnuttery!

(Just kidding...)

Malware creators and other such vandals deserve all scorn and contempt of course, but alas, it's like shaking your fist at God.

Re:Correct target?

[hedwards]

I think you're overly optimistic. Or did I miss the discovery of a bit of malware that causes people to cram too many discs in their CDROM tray or use the tray as a cup holder? You theoretically would have the malware and junkware problem solved, but I guarantee you that there will be a contingent of end users that find some other way of breaking their computers equally effectively and efficiently.

Re:Correct target?

[Anonymous Coward]

How about a screed against his fellow technical people?

You know, the one who *create* the malware and junkware and root kits and junk operating systems and whatnot.

Today's malware is made by criminals, not psychopathic techies who write file-deleting viruses for malicious kicks. Those days are gone.

Re:Correct target?

[Quiet_Desperation]

The guy isn't going to solve boo with his little rant, so why not at least attack the real culprits. Savvy?

Re:Correct target?

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't know if Sony and Microsoft ever get asked by their neighbors to fix their computers. Why don't you write that article?

some of us have no need

[poptones]

I switched to linux more than a decade ago. My friends with windows ask me questions and I can honestly say "I dunno... I haven't used Windows since the Clinton administration."

The funny part is some don't even seem to grasp that, and ask again the next time soemthing goes bad. At that point I usually ask them why they haven't already asked their denitst about the problem, or their car mechanic...

"What's wrong with your PC? You're a warez whore who still uses windows. Here's an ubuntu CD..."

You know horses?

[www.sorehands.com]

I have this horse and it has been acting up after .......

Re:You know horses?

[fuzzyfuzzyfungus]

What did you let it eat this time?

Re:You know horses?

[Locke2005]

Try power-cycling the horse and see if the problem goes away...

Re:You know horses?

[somersault]

Oh no, it wasn't me! I've been treating it fine! It must have been someone else messing around with my horse! I even hired all these dubious-looking men with badges to protect it!

Re:You know horses?

[c0lo]

Before power-cycling, try a three-fingers-salute.

Re:You know horses?

[Macgrrl]

Fortunately I had just put my coffee down before I got to this response. My monitor and keyboard are also grateful for this fortuitous timing.

Re:You know horses?

[mywhitewolf]

If your horse expert is shiny he isn't a horse expert, real horse experts smell like horse shit.

Re:You know horses?

[Coren22]

Where do you stick the fingers?

Be Deliberately Worthless

[Sponge Bath]

Have you tried turning it off and on again?

If that does not work, get a copy of the tech support script from... well, pretty much any tech company in existence. Then read it with a sloooooow ruuuural draaaaawwwl. If they interrupt you, then look confused and start over at the beginning.

Re:Be Deliberately Worthless

[Vectormatic]

Have you tried turning it off and on again?

you forgot the "Hello IT, " and the whelsh accent

Re:Be Deliberately Worthless

[debest]

[pedantic] Chris O'Dowd is Irish. [/pedantic]

I don't do Windows

[Anonymous Coward]

nuff said!

Re:I don't do Windows

[element-o.p.]

You stole my sig!!!

:D

"Sure I'll fix your computer. If I get to fcku yo

[michaelcole]

"Sure I'll fix your computer. If I get to fcku you."

Re:I love my brother's method of guilt

[Mordok-DestroyerOfWo]

"If I knew how to do computer, I would help You so you should help me." Well my brother did help me move from my parents' house to my apartment --- ten years ago.

I wouldn't mind if he actually LEARNED something, but he's still stuck at the "how do I make firefox fill the whole screen" or "I have firefox open - how do I get back to desktop?" stage (try minimize and maximize like I taught you back in 1999). He never learns.

Just shut the hell up. I'd mod you down even lower but I see you're already at (-1) you fucking cockstucker. You really should be BANNED from posting

Are you the brother?

Every time friends ask for help...

[Anonymous Coward]

...I always offer to replace their OS with Ubuntu.

Now they know better than to come to me.

:-)

Re:Every time friends ask for help...

[Anonymous Coward]

Now the resolution is stuck at 800x600, can you fix it?

This is why I set down ground rules

[gman003]

I've been able to "negotiate" some ground rules for doing family tech support.

1. If I say "it's fucked", it's fucked. I don't do miracles.
2. If it's a program I've never used before, I'll click around for a few minutes to see if I can guess it. After that, I'll hand you the manual, and let you figure it out yourself.
3. When I say "don't use ___, use ____ instead", you do it. I've been able to switch most of my family away from IE and MS Office this way.
4. I don't work with printers. Period. If necessary, I (somewhat-jokingly) claim it's for religious reasons, as "only the devil is evil enough to be responsible for printer drivers."
5. If I hop onto a browser to search for a solution, I will disable any toolbars that are taking up all your browser screen space. Without even being asked. You're welcome.
6. If I've been at it for over an hour, and have made no progress, I reserve the right to give up.

I suggest setting these down yourself, if you're frequently called upon to help. Generally, I've found it actually makes people slightly happier with you - apparently, placing more value on your skills makes others value them more as well.

Re:This is why I set down ground rules

[rbochan]

7. Oh, and YOU buy the beer.

Re:This is why I set down ground rules

[sqldr]

How about:

1. If I say it's fucked, it's because I just finished it off with this hammer.

2. By the way, I haven't taken my medication.

Re:This is why I set down ground rules

[Anonymous Coward]

Another rule for your list

If I do not know something, do not grill me on the intricacies of it, as "I do not know" means exactly what I say. You can probably find out more by googling around for it.

Re:This is why I set down ground rules

[Anonymous Coward]

Generally, I've found it actually makes people slightly happier with you - apparently, placing more value on your skills makes others value them more as well.

Amen.

Re:This is why I set down ground rules

[Anonymous Coward]

Alternate method that worked for me: tell them I don't deal with Windows anymore, and install Ubuntu.

Usually it's the partial printer support that is the final straw. (Prints, but not duplex, and no ink level display or head cleaning.) Within a year they give up and buy a new Win machine and stop bothering me.

Flame and claim FUD all you want, this has consistently got freeloading relatives off my back for computer issues.

Re:This is why I set down ground rules

[sjwest]

I knew a guy who could screw up usb printers by just turning them on, once installed three firewalls on one windows pc [that was fun], bought Dell (family recommended), and used aol. I walked out last time and never came back. He's now breaking ipads i hear from rumours.

Another guy asked me recently: 'will i use 500gb of disk space soon' Based on his usage of three documents, windows mickey mouse with all the bloatware known to man - i assured him he was fine.

I don't do it often but its weird when you think about it.

Re:This is why I set down ground rules

[rwa2]

When I say "don't use ___, use ____ instead", you do it. I've been able to switch most of my family away from IE and MS Office this way.

lol, I scored a BJ last week when my SO couldn't perform a simple search and replace in Excel.

First she cursed, then yelled, then threatened, then threw things. Then she finally conceded and opened up the file in OpenOffice and did all the replacements.

Re:This is why I set down ground rules

[EvilIdler]

Fixing printer drivers is what's made me the most money while helping friends, actually. It's always the printer or the wi-fi when it isn't a malware infection.

Re:This is why I set down ground rules

[Cloud K]

God, number 2

If it's a program I've never used before, I'll click around for a few minutes to see if I can guess it. After that, I'll hand you the manual, and let you figure it out yourself.

You do right. Translation of the original request: "Learn this software for me, because I can't be bothered".

Happens all the time. Because I "know about computers" I must know exactly how to operate every piece of software ever written, instinctively!

It's probably that we can stay calm and rational and think logically instead of going "OMG PANIC DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO, DURRR", it just blows the mind that this is so difficult for so many people. Sit someone in front of a computer - all willingness to learn goes out of the window.

Re:This is why I set down ground rules

[zippthorne]

You should just skip step two and give them a print-out of this flowchart instead: http://xkcd.com/627/

Re:This is why I set down ground rules

[gman003]

Actually, I used to have that taped to the wall behind my parent's monitor. To make sure they read it, the admin account's password was "various", with the password hint "the second word on the poster behind the monitor". It worked, too. They took it down when they moved the computer, though, so they might have problems logging in as admin next time they need to install something.

Re:This is why I set down ground rules

[greenbird]

7. Oh, and YOU buy the beer.

Actually this replaces rule 6.

Re:This is why I set down ground rules

[dasherjan]

Good list. Though my first rule is that if they haven't copied down the error message exactly as it appears on the screen, or if "there is no error message". Then it's a 1 - 2 day wait. Since usually when there's no error message it involves tracking down the bit of software that's mucking up the works. This allows me to schedule the time and it let's them know that I'm not at their beck and call.

Re:This is why I set down ground rules

[m.alessandrini]

I perfectly identify in those rules! Especially rule 5. I directly UNINSTALL any browser toolbars (plus any other programs I feel should not be there) without even asking.

Re:This is why I set down ground rules

[iainl]

I'd agree with most of those rules. Although I also have a rule 8: If I need to crack the case open, you're giving me a glass of red wine first. Because I like red wine, but also you've almost certainly got some cheap nasty thing that means I'm bound to end up getting my hand sliced up on a sharp bit somewhere, and it takes the edge off the pain.

Re:This is why I set down ground rules

[Enigma23]

I need to get this printed on a t-shirt!

Re:This is why I set down ground rules

[Splab]

Well they are sort of right aren't they?

How many windows programs have you actually bothered with the manual for?

Most programs written for windows are using the same guidelines, especially if they have made it big. This means most of what you look for are sort of named the same and put in the same neighbourhood of menus between programs.

Re:This is why I set down ground rules

[nicholasjay]

I can't believe this hasn't been posted yet: http://xkcd.com/627/

Re:This is why I set down ground rules

[T.E.D.]

#4 is the biggie IMHO.

Sadly, I'm not allowed to say that in my own house. We have an awesome color laser printer that has a name that only resolves properly on our network when it feels like it. If you want to print and it goes, Shub-Internet has smiled upon you. If not, tough. Enjoy watching its blinking lights while you contemplate the need to not put your printing off until the last minute.

Instead, I get yelled at every time, and end up mucking with printer port IP addresses until it is hacked enough to work...until something gets rebooted.

Re:This is why I set down ground rules

[Anonymous Coward]

#4. Printers. If it's supported by CUPS, I'll deal with it. If it isn't supported by CUPS, my response is "Nope, get a printer that the manufacturer could be arsed to document."

Re:This is why I set down ground rules

[coolmadsi]

Happens all the time. Because I "know about computers" I must know exactly how to operate every piece of software ever written, instinctively!

There might be a vague link here, I'm sure a lot of development is only tested by the developers (for smaller programs anyway), and the interface would have been designed in a way they use and a way they (the developers) find intuitive, however this doesn't always mean that everyone else will think the same. I guess friends/relatives may think that there is a slightly higher chance that you (being a computer person) will be able to understand something written/designed by another computer person, under the impression that you might have more similar thought/usage patterns/behaviours to the developer than them. It is still a very weak link (if any) and not really a good reason to be used.

Re:This is why I set down ground rules

[Anonymous Coward]

I got tired of the MDs, surgeons and dentists I know always asking computer problem related questions at parties. Soooo, I started asking them to diagnose reasonably nasty medical symptoms in the same group I was being asked to work in. They realized almost immediately that they were doing exactly the same thing that pissed them off at parties to me. Ever since then if they need help they call and ask me upfront to come over and help them. They also offer to pay.

Most people don't realize geeks need a break from their jobs too. Try explaining it to them. If being polite doesn't work, let all the air out of their tires as yo leave.

Re:This is why I set down ground rules

[Fulcrum of Evil]

I suppose you think developers are some sort of alien breed that thinks sideways or some shit. Truth be told, we write small programs for our own use and build enough interface to do what we need. We don't generally have the time to go polish it, and frankly, it's not intended to be widely released. What this has to do with consumer PC repair, I have no idea.

Re:This is why I set down ground rules

[coolmadsi]

I suppose you think developers are some sort of alien breed that thinks sideways or some shit. Truth be told, we write small programs for our own use and build enough interface to do what we need. We don't generally have the time to go polish it, and frankly, it's not intended to be widely released. What this has to do with consumer PC repair, I have no idea.

I do software development, and have watched non-developers use software that I also use; I am often confused by the different way of others doing things (be it sequences done to do something or the buttons/menus/keyboard short cuts used to do it), just because it is not how I do it. My reply was attempting to shed some light on why the GP gets the impression that because he knows about computers, people assume he must be able to figure a random program out.

Re:This is why I set down ground rules

[Fulcrum of Evil]

Except that software written for general consumption is designed as much by UI specialists as developers (at least, the ui heavy stuff is). In addition, users are brought in to play with the stuff while it's in development to identify misconceptions - face it, some people are either lazy or they view computers as a magic box and expend no effort on understanding how it works.

Re:This is why I set down ground rules

[TangoMargarine]

2. By the way, I haven't taken my medication.

Depending on the medical condition, couldn't that actually be a good thing?

Re:This is why I set down ground rules

[GameboyRMH]

# If I say "it's fucked", it's fucked. I don't do miracles.

THIS. This is the worst. My parents think I work miracles at work and am just a lazy ass for them when they fuck up their Windows machines (got my nearly computer-illiterate mom onto Linux, so at least she doesn't get weekly virus infections anymore...I just get called to install printer drivers for the random printer they just bought (luckily it was a nice Brother MFP with Linux drivers available), set up Skype etc).

When I tell them something will take a lot of time or effort, or is entirely impossible (my dad who doesn't do backups is shocked, SHOCKED that some of the files from his fucked flash drive full of not-backed-up, work-critical files can't be recovered) they say "what would you do if this happened at work?" THE EXACT SAME THING!!! >:(

Says who?

[Sycraft-fu]

I find that when you are kind to family and friends, they are kind back. I help people with computer issues and in return they help me in their skilled areas. My dad, while not a mechanic, has a great deal of automotive experience and worked in the industry many a year. He has helped my numerous times with car problems. A good friend who comes to me for computer advice has been plenty happy to help me with home improvement work, as a couple of examples.

Part of being a family is helping one another in ways that you can. That can be emotional support, advice, using your skills, etc. Give and get. Now if the other party is someone who just takes and takes, well then ya they aren't someone who you help, or probably associate with all that much. However you find that in general if you are nice, other people will be too.

I'm very happy to help friends and family and they are happy to help me. Works out well.

Re:Says who?

[idontgno]

And that's good advice. But you have to make a clear distinction between altruism and enabling co-dependence.

There's the nice, sane, reasonably intelligent people (like your family) for whom providing a little technical support is non-onerous. Then there're the pinheaded droolers who rush from trojan to trojan, steal every bit of software they run, and plug USB cables into network ports...and make them fit

The latter class far exceeds the bounds of kindness, unless your definition of kindness also extends to running down to the local crackhouse to pick up your brother's latest order.

Some people shouldn't have computers any more than they should have children or any kind of metabolic protection against intoxicants.

Re:Says who?

[spun]

Ah, well, it sounds as though you have a good reciprocal relationship with your family and friends, where you help each other with things in your area of expertise. If that is the case, by all means pitch in. Cooperation is wonderful. The problem comes if you don't have reciprocal relationships, i.e. they ask for free computer help, but come moving day, they and their truck are nowhere to be found. I believe THAT is what the article is complaining about.

Re:Says who?

[Anonymous Coward]

usb cords in network ports is funny, cause its true, but im the dumbass.. they put the network port right next to the usb on my laptop soooo.. lmao actually it goes in rather easily.

i did witness a usb cable shoved in a firewire port one time, does that count?

Re:Says who?

[Anonymous Coward]

I find that when you are kind to family and friends, they are kind back. I help people with computer issues and in return they help me in their skilled areas.

All the people I support for computers have purchased a Mac on my instructions, as well as some kind of drive for Time Machine. Minimal hassles because of the general lack of malware (regardless of the fact that Mac OS X is just as theoretically vulnerable as any other OS).

If your father recommended to go with or stay away from a certain brand/type of car, wouldn't you just ignore it? Would you put a burden on him if you ignore his advice and then had problems? Generally speaking I simply say "I don't know know much about Windows" (which I generally don't being a mostly Unix-y fellow) and that gets rid of most of the problems.

But I make sure they also purchase a Time Machine drive (or get them one for Christmas or some such).

Re:Says who?

[geekoid]

Then have some back bone and call them on it. It's not easy, but it needs to be done. Either they step up, or cut them out.

And that's not just tech, that's anything.

Re:Says who?

[spun]

I was positing the general case of friends with trucks, not making a specific complaint. But thanks for your common sense advice. And by "common sense" I mean, hopefully, the kind of thing anyone over the age of 21 already knows. Still, can't hurt to remind people that they have mouths, and can use them to communicate their desires to others.

Re:Says who?

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh man, you don't even want to know about the things I know about how people can misuse USB lines.

Re:Says who?

[Just Some Guy]

My son's orthodontist office called me in a panic one afternoon: "Can you fix our network, like, today?" Long story short, I now handle whatever computer or networking problems they have in barter for my boy's braces. I'm thrilled to death to get a price break on their services and they feel the same way. It's a great arrangement that I hope to continue for a long time.

Re:Says who?

[Anonymous Coward]

Your whole solution only works if your family/friends are skilled.

Re:Says who?

[Anonymous Coward]

There is a difference between helping family you interact with all the time, and those member of your family who only recall that you exist when they have computer problems.

I have once-close friends that I have naturally grown apart from. These days the only time I hear from them is when they call me at work to fix a computer problem they're having right now. And no, it's not an 'in' to organise an outing, it's often a request in the form of "what do I need to do? kthnxbi"

There's a difference between 'family' and 'being taken advantage of'.

Re:Says who?

[innocent_white_lamb]

plug USB cables into network ports...and make them fit
 
I just had a lady phone me yesterday, stating that her router appears to have quit. Why? "I just bought a new mouse and plugged it into the router and now it's not working at all."
 
How in the world do you plug a MOUSE into a router?

Re:Says who?

[1u3hr]

How in the world do you plug a MOUSE into a router?

Some routers have a USB port to network printers.

Re:Says who?

[Eivind]

That's also not a problem. What's wrong with saying "no" ?

Seriously, if a relationship is destructive for you, as in the pain is a lot larger than the benefits, why then choose to maintain that relationship at all ?

Re:Says who?

[georgesdev]

My son's orthodontist office called me in a panic one afternoon: "Can you fix our network, like, today?" Long story short, I now handle whatever computer or networking problems they have in barter for my boy's braces. I'm thrilled to death to get a price break on their services and they feel the same way. It's a great arrangement that I hope to continue for a long time.

I'm sure your son doesn't hope it continues for a long time ;)

Re:Says who?

[MrNemesis]

I'm generally happy to help friends and family, but some people just take the piss.

This cartoon has probably been posted here already, but the same thing has happened to me as well. Some people just don't think it's real work when you spend your weekend fixing their computer.

http://theoatmeal.com/comics/computers ...and once you've spent one weekend working for free, people don't give a crap about taking care about their computer any more because in their heads you'll *always* fix it for free. That lecture you gave them about antivirus, spyware and not browsing for midget donkey porn and handing out their credit card details like comedy night flyers? Ignored. If you want people to heed your advice, charge them money. /mercenary

Re:Says who?

[Anonymous Coward]

I have different tariffs: for dear friends, spending an afternoon repairing their PC (usually getting all their data off of it and then installing Linux, I like to keep my work down to a minimum) I charge a couple of non-alcoholic drinks while working and a couple of alcoholic drinks when done. A meal at the end of the day is greatly appreciated. Also, paying attention to what I'm doing so they can do it themselves next time round is essential -though it slows everything down.
For less-dear friends it just depends on the mood I'm in. Sometimes I also just treat it as a challenge: a colleague had a laptop with keys missing, a non-functional DVD drive (full of cat, dog and hamster hair) and a collection of every single virus ever released for windows. Even the restore partition had been contaminated. Yay! What's worst: she "needed" windoze 'cause her hubby played some online poker bullcr*p that absolutely needed to install software. I got the thing cleaned -including the inside of the DVD and got some W installed. Took the better part of a day, but no-one else in her circle of friends (including MS-certified buttonpushers) had managed it.
A friend of mine collected all the windows viruses he found, burned them on a cd and when someone had their windows re-installed he'd then give them a CD with the virus collection with a statement along the lines of "this is some kind of windows feature software. I don't know what it does, but every windows machine I come across has it. You might want to install it, even though the whole internet says you shouldn't. It's probably needed for ".
Tariff for non-friends for computer repair is "become a friend first, come back in half a year if we still like each other". That tariff was instated when I was getting swamped with problems caused by excessive yes-clicking. I am not a trashman, neither am I an IT-schooled guy. It's a runaway hobby.

The captcha read "mechanic"

Re:Says who?

[CastrTroy]

My boss did this the other day on his laptop, not because he dosn't know where it goes, but more because he was in a rush, and it just fit. He realized the mistake when the mouse didn't come up. That doesn't really give any excuse to these people, but a USB cable does fit perfectly fine in a network port. At least width wise. Give it a try.

Re:Says who?

[Anonymous Coward]

To be fair, usb cables fit perfectly in network ports. Its pretty easy to plug one in to the wrong place when you are reaching blindly around the back of a computer.

Re:Says who?

[quacking duck]

And this is why iPads don't come with USB ports... no port, no assuming that the printer/mouse/keyboard/flash drive/hard drive will work out of the box. Printers especially--many work out of the box on a Mac, but the preinstalled drivers take up hundreds of megabytes of disk space.

Re:Says who?

[Just Some Guy]

Probably not,but there are a couple of kids in the pipeline behind him. :-)

Re:Says who?

[Asic Eng]

Also, I think you can put limits on what you do or won't do. For me personally I'm fine with maintaining Linux boxes, but I won't look after Windows machines anymore, and I'm not willing to look after any Apple-stuff either. I'm not denying that those things can be useful, it's just that my personal interests are elsewhere.

Re:Says who?

[1u3hr]

Printers especially--many work out of the box on a Mac, but the preinstalled drivers take up hundreds of megabytes of disk space.

That's nuts. Even the weirdest Winprinter driver isn't more than a couple of MB. When you "install a printer" though these days you get a shitload of other stuff, not just the actual driver.

Re:Says who?

[Anonymous Coward]

steal every bit of software they run

Minor correction: the accurate term would be either "copy" or "download."

Re:Says who?

[Anonymous Coward]

But that isn't an IT problem, nor one specific to computer help. I help my uncle put up hay every summer but he's not at my house when I'm remodeling the kitchen. We get Christmas presents for our nieces and nephews each year, but their parents don't always buy presents for our children. I let my buddy borrow my pickup truck when he was moving and I had to replace the transmission (out of my pocket) when he finished with it.

I get so sick of /. articles like this because it turns into one big stream of whining from prima dona nerds who think all things in their world must be unique to them. While less emo than most of the modded up crap in this thread, another post of yours falls into the same trap. For example, "Accountants never do anyone's taxes for free...", yet we have a family friend who does our taxes each year for free. Believe me, mechanics deal with family and friends who do stupid stuff to their cars then want it fixed quickly and for free. My mother-in-law sews custom-made pageant and wedding dresses and often ends up doing significant free work because people ask for unreasonable things and she hates to say "no". Believing this is somehow restricted to you and your realm simply demonstrates a self-absorbed ignorance.

I have my mother-in-law's PC at my house today because she's been complaining about it for months and I was unable to fix it on site the last time we visited her. I will fix it when I have time and she will be thankful. A fellow at work asked me about his home computer and I gave him five minutes of thoughts but politely made clear that I don't work on computers for people. It really isn't that hard.

BTW, my comments are directed at TFA and other posters on this thread as much as you. Your post happened to be the one that set me over the edge.

Re:Says who?

[Anonymous Coward]

I'd bet that your son hopes this arrangement is over quite soon.

Yes, I had lots of orthodontic work done as a teen.

Re:Says who?

[P. Legba]

All that is true. However, some people simply do not need to own computers. Hate to say it, but if you've made it the first 65 years of your life without one, you're probably going to be okay for the next 20.

Re:Says who?

[Anonymous Coward]

this exactly. I handle a mail server and a firewall for a freelance masseuse acquaintance. She keeps my family relaxed, and has introduced me to some other local small business owners willing to barter services for networking and computer help. I try to make it clear that, while I do networking for a living, I don't have a support contract, at just do the best I can. So far it's gone well for me, although I can foresee the possibility of issues with people thinking of work I've done as somehow "warrantied".

Re:Says who?

[williamfrench4]

I just tried it (with a powered-down Thinkpad T60 laptop). The USB connector is just a little too wide to fit in without forcing, and I fear I would bend or break the wall between the ethernet and modem ports if I forced it.

I don't play dumb - I show that I am

[Anonymous Coward]

Last time I did tech support for a family member, I showed up, went to another computer, and googled the problem.

They kind of looked and said, "And I thought you were a computer expert."

"I never said I was."

No more support demands - they google their own fucking problems now.

I concur

[Velex]

I used to do computer work for females at work, since I considered it a friendly gesture. (I'm not terribly attracted to girls, btw, most times I was looking for friendship.) Then I noticed that after the work was done, just like straight guys have found, you get entirely shut down. I noticed there were two things going on: 1.) the girl assumed that I was fixing her computer because I was interested in her tits and 2.) actual attraction to said tits has nothing to do with it, i.e. there's nothing I was doing wrong like drooling all over her.

I don't fix anyone's computers for free anymore. I started telling the girls at work that it would cost $100 per hour for a minimum of one hour for me to even look at it, and they stopped asking after about the 3rd time.

Re:I concur

[geekoid]

"..you get entirely shut down."
speak for yourself, slick.

The computer is just the common means to have a conversation, like a pick up line. You need a good follow up. No matter what started the conversation.

Re:I concur

[Anonymous Coward]

not every girl asking for help is secretly hoping you give her a 'slick' line that'll get her into bed.. get over yourself.

Re:I concur

[Velex]

Slick? Pick up line?

I think you missed the part where I'm not attracted to females. -1, fail for missing the point of my post.

I'm only a guy on paper, just because society is still completely backwards yet in respect to subconscious gender (despite the fact it can be measured, somewhat accurately at least, using brain scans). Any interest in dating females I still have is just the result of being brainwashed for the first 19 years of my life that not having stuck my girl-cock in a female means there's something inadequate about me. I might do it one day, but it's probably going to wind up hurting her badly, and it might hurt me, too, if I start becoming friends with her.

But you're probably so full of yourself and heteronormative chauvinism the whole previous paragraph flew over your head and I'm wasting my time. This thread is too old anyway.

But if you Built the box...

[ackthpt]

You just need to learn to say no. This works 100%:

Did you notice a sign out in front of my house that said "Free PC repair"?
You know WHY you didn't see that sign?
'Cause it ain't there, 'cause repairing dead PCs ain't my fucking business, that's why!

I've built three boxes. Impressive systems which could withstand the changes of time for about a decade with minimal upgrades. Lian Li cabinets, PC Power & Cooling PSW, ASUS mobo, Radeon AIW video cards, 4GB of ram, 500GB of drive space, DVD RW, the works.

Two are still going strong.

One was tossed (TOSSED!) due to a minor issue, in favor of a Big Box Store PC which was inferior in every way. Then the owner wanted further help. Why did you toss a system which was an absolute brick for a discounter's offering? Nope, not going to touch one of those. Wouldn't even want to try with the way those things are bundled up with stuff.

Re:But if you Built the box...

[berashith]

hmmm, a decade in computers can be a real long time. this is a fun challenge off the top of my head ... The first consumer 1 Ghz cpu , AGP ports were new , the shock of Steve Jobs removing floppies , and that long ass slot were all happening ten years back. SCSI cards and the multitude of cables kept me busy. 5 cable video connections using BNC were the best, I am not sure if DVI was in place yet. Monitors weighed a frikking ton, and pixel quantity was actually better then HD if you spent the cash. Jazz drives, zip drives . I cant even remember the RAM type that I used. I think I had a pentium II and a thunderbird overclocked, and teh AMD required that horrible bit of hackery with actually writing on the chip with a pencil to bridge some contacts.

Re:But if you Built the box...

[jawtheshark]

Everyone I know and help, get the same line: if you want to throw away a computer. Call me first, I'll come and pick it up for free and take care of the "recycling". Recycling being me trying to repurpose it or disassemble it for parts.

As the guy who fixes computers...

[eepok]

As the guy who receives these infected and mistreated computers in my large circle of friends, family, and co-workers (and then combinations thereof), I have to say: If you have a problem fixing any computer, just don't fix it.

I've gotten such severely infected systems that I spend the greater part of my weekend cleaning said infections and uninstalling malware only to pop in a couple spare sticks of RAM or an old video card (where there was once only on-board video). Why? Because I like the people around me and I like to make sure the quality of life is good... if not better than what it was. Seriously. I care about my friends and coworkers and friends of coworkers and coworkers of friends. If they need help and I can help them, I'm going to do it.

Just remember to do a full write-up of all the actions you did:

--Quote the number of infections
--Install as much free/open-source alternatives to their malware-ridden pirated software as possible
--List the names of the software and describe what they do
--List some "best practices" for real-world computer usage.
--Let them know that you do this so their lives can be easier and so they have to spend less money now and in the future.

Put that write-up on the desktop and give a mini-presentation to the owner before they retake the computer. They'll appreciate the education, they'll appreciate the free utility and any upgrades you surprise them with, once they understand the effort involved in the service a friend provides for free, they'll appreciate /you/.

Re:As the guy who fixes computers...

[CAIMLAS]

If your friends

When you need your sofa moved, help re-roofing your house, or maybe someone to do your lawn for you when you're out of town - things anyone should be able to help with - just remember your attitude as it pertains to PC repair. They should have no problem dropping what they're doing and give you a hand, on your schedule.

That's the attitude most approach us with for help with their computers, anyway. It should be a two-way street. IF it isn't, there's a discrepency in your friendship(s).

Look, I have no problem helping friends when they're in need. The problem is that it's not just friends, it's people who "know you do computers". If there's the suggestion they might have to pay, they get agitated. Most won't even offer a beer or a glass of whatever while you're doing your 'magic'. If you refuse, they get PO'd.

So, I don't do that nonsense anymore. Simply put. Let them be pissed (and many will, when you say no, you won't do it for free), that's their perogative as an inferior human being.

Re:As the guy who fixes computers...

[Fulcrum of Evil]

sure, that works great if they already respect you, but a lot of people seem to treat computer people like lackeys. Without that initial level of respect, you aren't going to build anything.

Re:As the guy who fixes computers...

[AlienIntelligence]

If you have a problem fixing any computer, just don't fix it.

I've gotten such severely infected systems that I spend the greater part of my weekend cleaning said infections and uninstalling malware only to pop in a couple spare sticks of RAM or an old video card (where there was once only on-board video). Why? Because I like the people around me and I like to make sure the quality of life is good... if not better than what it was. Seriously. I care about my friends and coworkers and friends of coworkers and coworkers of friends. If they need help and I can help them, I'm going to do it.

Just remember to do a full write-up of all the actions you did:

--Quote the number of infections
--Install as much free/open-source alternatives to their malware-ridden pirated software as possible
--List the names of the software and describe what they do
--List some "best practices" for real-world computer usage.
--Let them know that you do this so their lives can be easier and so they have to spend less money now and in the future.

Put that write-up on the desktop and give a mini-presentation to the owner before they retake the computer. They'll appreciate the education, they'll appreciate the free utility and any upgrades you surprise them with, once they understand the effort involved in the service a friend provides for free, they'll appreciate /you/.

Yes! Period...!

wish I had mod points.

"Because I like the people around me and I like to make sure the quality of life is good... if not better than what it was. Seriously. I care about my friends and..."

Buddhist?

-AI

Re:As the guy who fixes computers...

[eepok]

Nope. Secular Humanist, Moral Relativist, and Deontological Preference Utilitarian.

In other words, I don't choose a religion or a religious morality to determine how I should act (though I have nothing against faith). Instead, I've come to logical and ethical conclusions that require me, duty-bound, to help preserve and advance the preferences of others around me while reducing frustration and pain. It's why education is my passion.

Admittedly, it's very similar to Buddhism... just without the requirement for belief in the supernatural.

Re:As the guy who fixes computers...

[AlienIntelligence]

Admittedly, it's very similar to Buddhism... just without the requirement for belief in the supernatural.

Ahh, maybe you should study Buddhism a bit more,
no supernatural here... [some divisions of Buddhism
don't accept the reincarnation thing] and no cool stories
to tell kids on Sunday. And no one tells you how to
think. It's just, do no harm and help others.

But still, good on helping others. And if you don't need
to accept a religion to feel that way (you might want to
look up the definition of religion however...) that's great!

-AI

Re:"Sure I'll fix your computer. If I get to fcku

[Frosty Piss]

"Sure I'll fix your computer. If I get to fcku you."

So, Michael, how long have you been "into" your cousin? I think that's a bit creepy, but whatever floats your boat, I guess.

You call that a rant? HERE'S A RANT!

[lunchlady55]

Dear [Insert Name Here],

        I completely sympathize with your situation, but I will not touch your computer. First off, I can't 'just take a look at it.' If I take a look, I promise that I will find things wrong with it. And then, inevitably, you'll ask me to go from 'just looking' to tweak it. Then after tweaking, full on, sleeves rolled up, virus killing, settings-changing, registry-editing, repair mode. Which is what you wanted all along, isn't it? You don't want me to take a look, you want me to fix everything that's wrong, speed it up, clean up your files and complete advanced maintenance tasks which you can't even pronounce, let alone perform properly.
        It's a fifty-fifty shot on whether I can fix the computer. I'm not really dealing with 'a computer' here, what I'm dealing with is the combined stupidity of every Redmond employee and every developer, decision-maker, and contractor that worked on any piece of software on your computer. Because the thing starts up and POSTs just fine. I'm the poor sap who has to figure out what .dll isn't being found by what .exe, which isn't running when another program expects it to be and fails silently with no log file that cascades into a waterfall of failure that rivals Niagara on a good day.
        And that's only if it's a real bug! You've probably downloaded cracks, and serial numbers (I see you've got the complete Adobe Creative Suite 5 Master Edition installed, that's only $2600, I'm sure you bought a legal license...) and oh, what's this, 13 toolbars in IE! Bonsai Buddy! Password Saver Online! I'm sure all these are totally legit, and none of them are software deliberately trying to mess up your computer. That's a whole other ballgame, not poorly designed software but maliciously designed software that will make you part of a botnet, steal your passwords and let someone watch everything you're doing in real time. I'm sure that's going to be really easy for me to clean up, because I'm an expert in the intricate, retarded, ineffective internal design of the Windows security model.
        Let's even say I manage to get your computer into some semblance of working order, after five or six frustrating hours (while you watch TV and relax after your hard day at the Dress Barn.) Pray tell what will I get in return? Maybe if you're generous twenty-five, fifty bucks tops? Not even enough to fill up my gas tank. Would you do something frustrating, something you consider vile and degrading, for $5 an hour after you just got out of a long day of work making way more than that and being much less frustrated and degraded? Let's put it this way, what if I walked up to you and asked, "Hey, why don't you do my laundry? C'mon, most of the time you're not even doing anything, the machine does all the work. And make sure it's folded right! How about you scrub my floors on your hands and knees while I watch from the couch? No? OK, make me some dinner. Nothing too special, just a standard egg and cheese souffle, lobster thermadore in a white wine sauce and chocolate mousse for dessert." You'd answer "No?" Wow, what a surprise.
        But besides the insulting pittance and the degradation, what I'm sure you'll give me is the blame if anything ever goes wrong with anything on your computer from now until eternity. (About that dinner, don't worry, I'll buy the parts, er.., ingredients. But I'll blame you if you break a dish or the stove goes out two months later.) Because I messed with it. That's because nothing ever breaks, everything is forever and entropy is just a made-up word. (Who am I kidding, you don't know what entropy is.) That's my thanks for fixing the computer.

On second though, how about I don't fix it and I save myself a huge fscking headache and you keep your fifty bucks?

Re:You call that a rant? HERE'S A RANT!

[Kittenman]

Yep, that's a rant ok.

Re:You call that a rant? HERE'S A RANT!

[Anonymous Coward]

I clean them all the time for US$99, but that does not include re-installing any software. I will only re-install OS and software if they provide original disks and licenses (that takes care of a lot of it since most is pirated) and pay per app; an OS re-install is $99, but they get it updated as of today with the default settings. I will uninstall any anti-virus software and only install Windows Defender and MalwareBytes, I always install Firefox, run a script to remove IE and always install MS Page Defrag. I also insist that they use at least 1GB of Ram and I run a script that deletes all manner of temporary and useless files and all those index.dat files. It's all an automated Linux script.

I've never had a complaint or had to give a refund (You must be satisfied that I did everything we agreed I would do) since everybody's computer runs much faster. If they manage to get more malware and crap, I'm more than glad to take their $99 again. And again. If they don't like my terms, they can take it to another tech who will do less and do a poorer job for the same or more money. I'm busy enough as is with referrals.

Re:You call that a rant? HERE'S A RANT!

[Archangel Michael]

You see, there's the problem right there ... $50 bucks.

My standard pat answer is ... $60/hr w/2hr min. I'm a freaking professional, and I'm very good at my job. I can probably fix it for you in that period of time, or else help you go buy a new computer, and I'll spend two hours moving your data over for you. It isn't worth that to you? Then why is it worth it to me? I'd say I'm sorry, but I'm not. Your other option is to take it to GeekSquad and have them run some cool sounding software you can download off the internet for free and it will cost you ... $45 for a "tuneup", and then they'll sell you a Monster USB cable for $40.00 to keep the trojans away (Laugh hysterically). Remember, I've been doing this longer than most of the geeks over there have been alive.

Re:You call that a rant? HERE'S A RANT!

[Anonymous Coward]

http://dilbert.com/dyn/str_strip/000000000/00000000/0000000/000000/00000/1000/100/1128/1128.strip.gif

Re:You call that a rant? HERE'S A RANT!

[Anonymous Coward]

Arrogance is a bitch, ain't it?

Re:You call that a rant? HERE'S A RANT!

[AlienIntelligence]

For some reason, this seems less douchey than TFA rant.

I think it's cause you didn't come off omnipotent, omniscient,
or 'better' than the audience. You just kinda shot the shit from
the hip.

-AI

Re:You call that a rant? HERE'S A RANT!

[Enigma23]

*appluads*

Mod that rant up by 101 points. :)

Re:You call that a rant? HERE'S A RANT!

[MrNemesis]

Masterful post :)

I do the "take a look at it" thing, but it's what it says on the tin - I'll just look at it. You get a five minute appraisal for free and then I tell them I charge £30/hr, or mates rates of £20/hr, discountable to a bottle of single malt every 2 hrs. I did once trade for a meal, but that *was* lobster thermidore and a whole bunch else, made by a chef I knew who worked at a michelin starred seafood restaurant.

And before I touch the computer, I'll tell them that even if it breaks later, and they're "sure" it was my fiddling that caused the breakage (since they're the computer expert) then they can pay me to fix it, or they can pay someone else to fix it. I don't go around doing this for fun, and thankfully only spend about five days a year fixing shit like most peoples' laptops.

Posted it another post, but it's so true I hope I can get away with linkspam:
http://theoatmeal.com/comics/computers

Re:You call that a rant? HERE'S A RANT!

[Anonymous Coward]

Bravo

Re:I love my brother's method of guilt

[Anonymous Coward]

Lame.

Anyone who is paying attention knows you're the same person. Give it up.

UAC to the rescue! (Never thought you'd hear that)

[Sarusa]

UAC works fairly well for this in Win7 /if/ you can get away with not giving them an admin account. Just like not giving root on the linux box. I've done this for two sane people, set up autoinstall of updates (including Windows defender), and so far no problems.

Of course you usually can't get away with that because users really really want to install that cool malware. And by users I mean family members.

non-tech people just love guys like this

[OrangeTide]

Easier to tell them that you don't use a PC, and save them from a long and tedious explanation.

Switching to a Mac solved this.. for a while

[adenied]

I switched to using Macs in 2001. Which was great because I could just tell everyone I knew who used Windows "oh sorry, I use Macs.. I really have no idea". This worked pretty well until about 2007 when my parents finally got a Mac. On the plus side, stuff usually just works for them now, so it's not really a big deal.

Re:Switching to a Mac solved this.. for a while

[geekoid]

Showing every one that using an OS with limited option limits the options you have.

Re:Switching to a Mac solved this.. for a while

[earthforce_1]

Time to become a Linux user - preferably an obscure distribution nobody has ever heard of.

Re:Switching to a Mac solved this.. for a while

[Vectormatic]

just get ubuntu satanic edition, that way, when someone wants you to fix their computer you get to ask for a sacrifical goat and a butchers knife

Re:Switching to a Mac solved this.. for a while

[P. Legba]

It's more like showing them that computers don't have to be virus-laden pieces of shit to access their Facebook and e-mail. I, on the other hand, don't find the Mac limiting in the least, and in fact, I find it liberating in that I find myself free of bruises from beating my head against a wall.

Out of the business

[U8MyData]

I for one I am out of the business in general. I hate the snickering "geek" moniker everyone thinks is so funny cheapening the trade. Then again you get the other folks who are in order of magnitude grateful for your resurrection. I miss the enterprise level tech support/sys admin though. Tough economy and cheaper by the dozen sys admins have dried up that well. At least at the end of the day you got paid without the "how much?" complaints, you know that someone supported/appreciated *you*, and you got to play with the cool toys (ahem, tools) not something picked up somewhere cheap without source disks and/or licenses. Be careful out there...

I find

[Sycraft-fu]

That most geeks are the problem in that situation. Geeks in general seem to have less social skills and social graces than most people. They also seem to get a bit big-headed about their abilities and computers in general. Their attitude is "You should know that," and "RTFM noob." They feel put upon and act like martyrs when someone has the audacity to ask them for help.

Well guess what? Act like that and it shouldn't be a surprise people aren't so nice. Even if you do help them, if you are abusive about it they don't feel like you really did them much of a favour.

I'm not saying that geeks are always the ones at fault here, but I think it is more often than not. When you are nice and polite, help when you can, say no nicely and explain why when you can't, people are nice back. I've had good luck with that in general, and not just with family.

Some time ago I had a roommate who was a plumber. I helped him with his laptop. Old piece of shit, ran really poorly. While I couldn't make it great, I made it better. Took a fair bit of work, probably 4-6 hours of my time and really isn't worth it for something that old when you get down to it, at least had I billed him. However I did it to be nice. In turn, I got a lot of minor plumbing problems fixed. Heck he redid my kitchen drain without asking or charging for the parts (which were only like $10), he noticed it was rusting out and would be a problem in the future, and since it was cheap and simple he just did it.

Really it is on you to be the nice open one with people. If they are jerks, then you cut them off and stop helping. But you can't expect people to come and lavish help on you and only then do you open up to them. Be nice and friendly, you'll find many people are back.

Re:I find

[statusbar]

Don't let the government know what you guys did!

You just evaded collecting and paying sales tax!

The tax is still owing to the government...

--jeffk++

Re:I find

[Anonymous Coward]

"Well guess what? Act like that and it shouldn't be a surprise people aren't so nice. Even if you do help them, if you are abusive about it they don't feel like you really did them much of a favour."

People turn off their brains with computers for some reason. Simply asking yourself what the screen says and what the implications are will answer the question you are asking me for help with. If you can't be bothered expending that much effort before calling on your computer slave for assistance.

It gets trying, it is abusive, and it is the reason technical people get annoyed. You'll get much better results with "I think this means I should get this but I want to confirm to make sure I don't hurt anything" but even that won't work forever. Sooner or later you should be able to connect the dots and get an idea for what is safe without asking and you certainly shouldn't be calling multiple times to confirm the same thing.

The only lack of social skills is not knowing how to to tell off the arses doing this. Even then, having a brain means also knowing this is some sort of mass mental defect that the bulk of the population has. Can you tell them all off? So, the resentment builds.

Re:I find

[Anonymous Coward]

That most geeks are the problem in that situation. Geeks in general seem to have less social skills and social graces than most people. They also seem to get a bit big-headed about their abilities and computers in general. Their attitude is "You should know that," and "RTFM noob." They feel put upon and act like martyrs when someone has the audacity to ask them for help.

so-called 'social skills' you're talking about are simply a means to allow people to save face when they are in a jam, and not to face the consequences they thought they'd have to face.. technical people deal in facts first, so yeah they'll read you the riot act esp if the problem was easily avoided and/or they've had to fix it for you 8 times already. expecting them to play the 'social skills' game and care about others feelings in that situation is perceived as yet another debasement of their skills/time. ie why should he treat you nicely when you're not reciprocating and you've asked for help multiple times? that says "I don't think you're important nor are your skills valuable but please help me out of my jam, thanks." which isn't very motivating. tech types aren't gruff with people because they have some disease made up by uber narcissist extraverts who think everyone should be like them (projection on their parts). being gruff, in fact expressing feelings takes energy for most tech types.. they only do it when the situation becomes intolerable. face it, not everyone is nor wants to be an emotional rollercoaster.

I'm not saying that geeks are always the ones at fault here, but I think it is more often than not. When you are nice and polite, help when you can, say no nicely and explain why when you can't, people are nice back. I've had good luck with that in general, and not just with family.

why should he have to explain why he can't if that's not the real reason (ie he doesn't WANT to be cause the person asking is not reciprocating/not willing to pay). the shortest answer with the least damage is 'no.' making up further lies to shield this disrespectful person from the consequences of his own behavior is maddening and prolongs the situation.

Re:I find

[mywhitewolf]

its funny, you where polite and got boned, (minor plumbing fixes which benefited him as much as you, for a 4-6 hours computer repair, i bet you also administrate the network and look after the internet too?). if you learned to be rude like the rest of us antisocial geeks then people wouldn't take advantage of you. no one expects that angry geek on the end of the line to do anything for free, and even if it was for free it might not be worth being yelled at for 15 min about being incompetent.

If there was some "minor" problems with your router setup, could you consider it "paying a housemate back" for fixing it? why would you consider him repairing a house he lives in as a payback to you.. unless you own the house that is and was just renting the room to him?

Re:I find

[Fulcrum of Evil]

That most geeks are the problem in that situation. Geeks in general seem to have less social skills and social graces than most people.

This is true - we should have the sense to say no more often. Seriously, I write software, why in the world would you expect me to be an expert at recovering PC crap? I change my habits so that doesn't happen. On top of that, why would you expect me to spend 2-3 hours doing it on short notice? Yes, you should expect to pay, and the rates start at $50/hr, largely because we much prefer doing things with our free time that don't involve work.

I do some PC support for friends

[taustin]

It helps when you have a reputation among your friends of being highly amused by being able to sarcastically taunt them for doing something stupid, like keeping critical business records on a home PC with no backup plan. It helps even more when they finally realize that $2500 for data recovery on two failed drives is actually a fair price for the clean room work being done.

It also helps if you can set up an easy to use backup system for them.

Doesn't work

[Anonymous Coward]

> If you don't like it, get a factory job.

I have a factory job. They still ask me to fix their home PCs.

Being True To One's Most Authentic Self

[Petersko]

" I tell them that if they had a real OS then I could help them, but since they have a toy I cannot."

Dripping nerdy OS-based condescension to family. You must just be a laugh riot at the gatherings.

Re:Being True To One's Most Authentic Self

[TeknoHog]

You can just honestly say that you don't know how to fix Windows since you don't use it. No reason to patronize them on their OS choices.

i know what u mean

[Anonymous Coward]

I totally know what your talking about! it's like "well before i fucked my computer into infinity of no return i had all this pirated music and movies can you make sure i don't lose them?". No, i'm gonna fix it and your gonna learn the hard way, quit hacking on that IntErNET PRoN and you'll be fine.

Captain Obvious

[Anonymous Coward]

Exactly what it says on his underpants...

There's your problem

[rsilvergun]

real horse experts don't need no stinkin' badges.

If I was writing that letter...

[Anonymous Coward]

If I was writing this letter -

Dear Friend,

Please understand that you broke your computer. Maybe it was your kids. Maybe it was an accident with no malicious intent. But you still broke your computer. You've been in the software equivalent of a car crash, and now you want me to fix the software equivalent of your car.

Maybe we're good enough friends that that's cool. But please remember that above everything else, you broke it. Not me. And now you're asking me for a favour. It's a favour that I get asked for a lot. And honestly, if we weren't friends - I'd want a whole bunch of money in exchange for doing this work. It's going to take me a fair chunk of time and it's a pain in my ass. Like most 'computer guys' - my main job isn't fixing consumer PC's - I have another job that I have to go to if I want to pay rent, so your computer is getting fixed in what would otherwise be my relaxation time, spent doing things I enjoy. And despite what you may have heard about 'computer guys' - fixing computers for free isn't really something that most of us enjoy.

So please, remember, I don't actually care that your computer is broken. It's not my fault and it's only my problem because I'm the friendliest/cheapest/only 'computer guy' you know. And if you aren't nice to me, and if you don't remember how nice I am about doing you favours when I next need a favour in return... don't think that I need your friendship so badly that I'm prepared to be your bitch.

Thanks
Local Computer Guy

I did this a long time ago.

[Anonymous Coward]

"If you want support from me, buy a Mac. I don't do Windows for free."

Those of my family who bought Macs, well I was called once because my ex-brother-in-law broke off the power connector in his iBook. That and maybe a couple other calls in over a decade.

Those who have Windows PC's don't call me. Granted it took my mom's new husband a couple times before he figured out I wasn't joking, but he lets the grand kids go wild on his computer every time they come over. No way in hell I'm cleaning up that mess... over and over and over.

if you don't fix it, it ends up in the landfill

[buback]

With the cost of pc being so low, it's pretty hard to ever justify taking a system to a professional fixer. Most people just decide it's time to upgrade and throw out the old system.

Now, some people genuinely need a new computer as the last time they've upgraded was 2001, but most of those parts are more than usable.

i have lots of good, usable parts left over from upgrades. Eventually, i put enough parts together to reassemble the system and pass on to a relative, which always ends up being an upgrade for them. For those systems, I give free support, since i don't want to see a good, usable computer end up in a landfill. for everyone else i expect something, and charge by how much i like them or how much work it will be for me.

Re:if you don't fix it, it ends up in the landfill

[MrCrassic]

But you seem to keep doing things that way...?

Re:Magic the Gathering

[TaoPhoenix]

Oh good, for once a MTG player I can respond to so the mods don't sink me.

Run a Type One analysis on the recent news trends and be horrified. The last time I tried I was accused of bad Perl.

The general formula, converted to MTG, is GoldCard - Negated-Limitation.

So we have PutPeopleInJail -NegateZimbabwe, "Pretend To Track Anonymous Emails" - Negate FalseResults, etc.

Once one random jurisdiction puts an unholy measure into play, the entire rest of the world goes "oh cool, let's do that".

For anyone whoever built any of the 100 MTG decks that later became banned, this reasoning is a cinch. For everyone else the mods call it -1.

They're playing guess the verb

[tepples]

If I do not know something, do not grill me on the intricacies of it, as "I do not know" means exactly what I say.

What you see as grilling you on the intricacies, the other person might see as rephrasing the question in different terms to jog your memory. Their mindset appears to be the same as that of a text adventure player who runs up against a guess the verb problem.

Guilty as charged

[Kittenman]

I support about half-a-dozen PCs in the neighbourhood - nothing less than Windows XP. Most of them are PCs I've provided (ex-work) or advised on. The people are appreciative, and I usually end up with a bottle of wine or two afterwards.

I've told one family, when asked, that I don't install a cracked product. They stopped asking me for help. That's great!

I don't install file-sharers - LimeWire's popular here. If they want to, up to them but they can figure it out. And I'll clean it up next time 'round and get two bottles of wine from Dad for the labour.

Worst I've seen is when I cleaned up (reformatted) one PC, then had to do it again as the teenager had wrecked it within a week. I sat with her once while she went to a website and clicked "ok" to everything that got between her and the screen she wanted. All the time keeping up a stream of chatter. 'Did you read that message?", I asked. "No", she said. The family went to a Mac within a year, because "PCs just don't seem to work for us", the mother said. No shit.

Doctors...

[mapuche]

I can call my son's pediatrician in the middle of the night and asking for help, he'll provide me a free consult. If the problem is too complex and involves x-rays or antibiotics he will tell me to go with him the next day.

Not every free help we ask is because we feel is wothless.

Re:Your sig

[Lord of Hyphens]

I didn't think there were any keybindings not used by Emacs.

I like money

[simplypeachy]

I find that charging people money makes stupid things less frequent. Or at least profitable :-) Same goes for family - if they do something I consider below common sense for a non-techie, they can pay up or put up. And if they have stuff with iffy licenses then I won't even touch it. I can't afford the liability.

Tons of whining here

[Anonymous Coward]

I help my neighbors out all the time and in return I've gotten help with yard work, carpentry, plumbing and more.

Then again I'm in pre-sales so I actually have at least some social skills.

I also have people drop their machines off at my house which makes fixing anything 10x faster

Play the cash card also

[Anonymous Coward]

I inadvertently got myself out of a problem. In the desktop support business the guy who gave me my first week's training was playing dumb, and didn't want to get involved. He asked if I wanted to make some money and go help his acquaintance in some place 1.5 hours away from my place.

I wasn't too enthused, and he didn't want to reveal his own prowess or travel about half as far from his own place. He had no other choice than to give them my asking price: nearly 50 bucks an hour (this was back about half a decade ago). They declined, and I was glad to not have needed to get involved with strangers for someone who back then was only a new co-worker.

Playing hard (like ignoring phone calls and e-mails) gets you left alone, but kills your relationship with friends. Money seems more sane; my rate turned out to match what the office repair pros charge locally for doing real repairs with much more resources.

Re:Magic the Gathering

[hjf]

I wish I knew what the hell MTG players are talking about.

Signed: someone who sells MTG and owns a comic book shop where tournaments are held.

And I'm not kidding!

I go all out

[Anonymous Coward]

I guess Im a minority here. I repair for a living and I handle things a bit differently maybe. Free repairs come at the end of the day. Family and Friends included. I could never make a living if I spent the good hours of the day working for free and putting off my regular customers. But Ill tell you what, The thing that pisses me off is the amount of poor workmanship you find in the field. YOu people know who you are. Cutting corners to save a buck and such. Take some pride in your work and be honest! Of course, Alot of it is just pure lazyness. So - it cuts both ways.

The Comic "The Oatmeal" covered this"

[Anonymous Coward]

I believe the comic "The Oatmeal" covered the issues of family/friend tech support the best!

http://theoatmeal.com/comics/computers

Why torture people/family with windows?

[Anonymous Coward]

You are guaranteed to get problems with any version of windows. There is a simple way to eliminate 99% of the problems.

Debian + XpGnome + root pass + desktop shortcuts = no problems

No shitty AV running in the background nor "I bought McAfee for $40," no slow downs, no malware, no coupon printers, etc.

only if you run as Administrator

[MadMaverick9]

I am very surprised that nobody has said that this yet.

Number one rule: never login as Administrator (or root), unless you need to do maintenance. Playing a dvd is not maintenance.

http://blogs.msdn.com/b/aaron_margosis/archive/2004/06/17/157962.aspx "Why you shouldn't run as admin..."

So a message to all pc-fixers out there: if your friend does want the automatic login, make sure it automatically logs in to an account that is in the "Users" group. And you could even go as far as not giving the Administrator password to your friend.

If users log in as Administrator when all they want to do is surf the web, write some email, write a document with MS Word or play a dvd. Then do not blame Microsoft if your pc gets hacked. It's your own fault.

This particular article by Aaron Margosis was written seven years ago.

Re:only if you run as Administrator

[Anonymous Coward]

Sounds like good advice, but was never really practical until Windows 7. Too much damn stuff in XP never worked right as a regular user.
I know XP probably could be tweaked to work better as a non admin account, but I never could get it right.

Ladies and gentelman, exhibit A

[Sycraft-fu]

Notice the hostile attitude, the "People owe me," mentality and so on.

I don't think I got screwed at all. I didn't say to him "Ok I am spending this time and I bill out at $100/hour for indy work so I expect that much back from you." No, I did it to be nice to him. In turn he was nice to me. Did he do anything big? No, didn't have any big jobs, but he was very willing to help with things in his area of expertise. Funny enough, if we actually were to compare billings I'd probably owe him money. the company he worked for charged $300 for a simple drain replacement like he did because people don't know how to do it themselves (though it is not hard) and leaking water is a major problem. That was just an example, that wasn't the only thing he ever did to help me (nor the only thing I ever did to help him).

As for "administrate the network" oh get off your high horse. I actually DO administer our building's network at work, and have previously done much higher level network administration. That can take some work. At home? My network is a cable modem plugged in to a switch. That's it. It's a consumer network, there ain't shit to administer son. If the lights on the modem go out I call the ISP, that's all.

I suppose I did more than him with it since I paid the bills and made the calls but that's called "being a homeowner" and is why I get to charge rent for someone to live here, if I so choose. I take care of all the services, and just charge them their share.

Seriously, you just provided an excellent example of the personality I was talking about. You are so concerned about not getting "boned" that you are a dick and thus "bone" yourself by not having people who will help you.

Life is kinda nice when you have friends and family you can turn to when you need help. It does mean you have to be willing to give as well as get though, and you can't sit and try to demand 100% parity on everything. It isn't a business transaction, it is a person helping another.

Re:Ladies and gentelman, exhibit A

[mywhitewolf]

My network is a cable modem plugged in to a switch. That's it. It's a consumer network, there ain't shit to administer son

you can recognize the difference between a network cable, a modem, a switch, you know and admit to calling the required technicians to get "the light turned back on". obviously all very simple tasks for some elite network manager like yourself... just like fixing a leaking tap is a simple task for a plumber, turn off water supply, unscrew tap handle bracket, resurface the washer recess and replace washer, re-assemble and turn water supply back on.

I suppose I did more than him with it since I paid the bills and made the calls but that's called "being a homeowner" and is why I get to charge rent for someone to live here, if I so choose. I take care of all the services, and just charge them their share.

then you gain more from the repairs he does to your house then, which i addressed in my argument as the only way that he didn't bone you.

Notice the hostile attitude, the "People owe me," mentality and so on.

i guess giving out my highly valuable time to people who don't return the favor has left me a little jaded, (i've spent weeks fixing a mates car, when i asked if he could give me a hand fixing mine... "yeah, don't really feel like it today", at least he was honest) but yes, people do owe me when i use my professional abilities that has cost me thousands of dollars and years to develop in a way that benefits them so they don't have to pay someone else. It's called a favor.

if the plumber didn't return the favor would you help them again? just because you didn't enter into a formal agreement doesn't mean you don't feel like you're owed something for your time. you have just undervalued your work by calling it square after a couple of 10 min plumbing fixes. if you feel its square however then i guess the agreement is mutually beneficial and not really the focus of the thread at all. yes we all know accruing favors with people who have separate skill sets can mean that the favor would be returned, this has nothing to do with manners and most geeks are no less socially inept most other standard professionals.

Re:Ladies and gentelman, exhibit A

[Anonymous Coward]

You did a job he couldn't do that didn't benefit you. He did a job that anyone over the age of 12 can do, and it benefited him too. If you look at it as a trade, your roommate walked all over you. Maybe if he replaced the hot water heater or replaced the toilet in your personal bathroom it would have been equal.

Re:Ladies and gentelman, exhibit A

[CowTipperGore]

I wish had mod points for this. This thread is so full of anti-social narcissists that I get ill reading it.

Re:Ladies and gentelman, exhibit A

[Anonymous Coward]

And yet he seems happy and the people telling him he was taken advantage of seem hostile and miserable. Hmm.

Re:Ladies and gentelman, exhibit A

[AmiMoJo]

Comparing tech support to fixing a car isn't really a good comparison. Anyone who can drive won't be asking endless questions because they think you "know about cars" and it is easy for you. Because a car is vital for most people they will usually take your advice on board when you fix it and won't immediately go and break it in the same way again.

These things happen because there appear to be basically two types of user. Younger users are more used to figuring things out - they don't RTFM because it is quicker and easier to just dive in. You can give them advice but they will usually just ignore it and go on what they think they know. Older users prefer to learn how to do things by following set procedures and if something comes up they don't know or don't understand they want a person or manual to tell them what to do. Since most PCs don't have a manual these days that leaves you.

Each group needs to take on board a little from the other.

Just say 'no'

[Anonymous Coward]

Every man, woman, cat and dog used to ask me to fix their computer until I grew a backbone and just started saying 'no'. Word quickly got around and the requests stopped coming. Problem solved. Having said that, I still help immediate family and also friends that reciprocate when I need help from them.

There's no point getting angry about being taken advantage of. If you don't like the situation then change the situation. Stand up for yourself!

Re:UAC to the rescue! (Never thought you'd hear th

[Anonymous Coward]

I can't agree more. A slightly locked down Win7 will run for more than a year without trouble, provided that the users do not know the admin password. Of course, any self respecting nix box will run forever (well till the hardware breaks down) under those circumstances, but the main problem with Windows is that the common users have too many privileges.

I just decided.

[Lord Kano]

I'm 'retiring' from fixing other people's computers. It's not worth the headache. I have two machines that I have already agreed to fix, after that. If I'm not having sex with you or your mother, it's extremely unlikely that I will ever be fixing your computer.

LK

It's no fun helping unprincipled slobs

[FoolishOwl]

The rant was concerning a security problem -- specifically, an unprincipled and careless user installed a lot of dodgy software, got burned, and took the techie's help for granted. The user's behavior is consistent: it's clear she doesn't think about the welfare of others or the consequences of her actions, so it's no surprise that she's ungrateful for the techie's help, and doesn't appreciate the amount of work involved.

I love helping friends and family with computer problems -- but the problems I get are requests for help in installing a hard drive, configuring a printer, or figuring out how to use some software. I usually get generous thanks for helping them.

The author of the rant needs to deal with his real problem: he has lousy friends. That the immediate problems were computer problem is incidental.

Nobody takes advantage of you without permission

[mykos]

I used to get frustrated with semi-distant relatives or not-so-close friends. Now I just charge them. You'd be surprised at how willing people are to pay the rates you ask. If they don't like my rates, they always have some fourteen year old nephew they can bug.

My trick:

[subsonic]

Start telling people it'll cost them up front. I do a little side work in helping coworkers with their home computers (we're 99% mac at work, so a little PC on the side keeps me "fresh") I tell them up front that it'll cost them a bit to get me in the door. But I generally just charge a flat fee. Its way easier for them than working with the Geek Squad who will just take their money and load them down with "solutions" that just cost more money.

I also have started having them sign a waiver.

wonderfully?

[Anonymous Coward]

only if them muttering "asshole." was your goal.

take the bad code away from the computer

[Anonymous Coward]

my older brother puts Ubuntu on every single computer
without asking when he gets this kind of assignments...
Or rather, he asks "shall I take the bad programs away??!

As he allways keeps the latest Ubuntu on his keychain,
this isa quick job.

He has been doing this for the last five years without any complaints.

Re:UAC to the rescue! (Never thought you'd hear th

[johnjaydk]

I spent the better part of a weekend rebuilding the inlaws old XP box while I drank all their beer.

Set them up with a regular user account and a secret admin password that only I knew. So life were good for a while.

,p>Then they start taking computer class and learn some stuff that requires admin. I try to explain that they should stay out of that mess. But no. They insisted.

So I gave them the admin password and now the box is a boat anchor. No way in hell I'm going to fix their shit again.

Re:Magic the Gathering

[Fjandr]

I played MtG from Legends until Weatherlight, and I haven't the slightest clue wtf TaoPhoenix is on about. Maybe the later editions vacuum out players' prefrontal cortex. -shrug-

Amazon, Google & Co will help you there

[Colin Smith]

It's called "The Cloud". And is going to put all the little computer fixers out of business.

Re:Amazon, Google & Co will help you there

[CastrTroy]

Most people get their computers fixed for free by their geek friends, so it just gives us a lot of free time. That or they go out and buy a new one. Most computer shops charge around $80 an hour for PC repair. At that price, you'd be crazy not to go out and buy a new one. Unless you have a really expensive PC. Geek squad charges $40 to install Windows 7. Which has to be the easiest windows to install in all of history.

I would

[Anonymous Coward]

help a friend if I possibly could no matter how much effort it takes. Cassidy sounds like a sour individual.

charge!

[Finite9]

I've been doing PC support for family and friends for over 20 years for free. Recently, I had to move house, I have a 5 yr old and there was just loads of other crap that ate my time for several months. Unfortunately, 3 different people (family/friends) decided that they needed help with their computer during the same period. That's when I started charging. I charge the same hourly rate as a baby sitter, and I still feel cheeky! The thing is, that if I was to charge the same rate as a electrician, or a fridge repair company, then the cost would be unreasonable. They usually charge ~1000 SEK / 100 GBP for services that take up to 1 hour. When I fix a PC, it usually takes a few hours of troubleshooting. Sometimes I've spent up to 20 hours rebuilding the OS, re-installing all programs and reconfiguring modems and printers. It would be unreasonable to charge 20.000 SEK / 200 GBP to re-install a PC: You could buy another PC for that money. And the ahem... 'professional' PC repair companies charge maybe ~2000 SEK for complete re-installs, but then they do't do any config, don't re-install any programs whatsoever.

I think a good approach is to have a reasonable base charge for the first hour, then an hourly rate thereafter, with a maximum ceiling for how much it will cost.

Of course, I would never consider charging my parents or siblings--if I had any--for PC repair, but every other relative, friend or acquintance is free game in my book.

And hey, if it means I get called less, because I started charging, then that's fine by me, because this is the kind of hassle that I really don't need.

And as for getting favours in return... I've been helping friends and family for the last 12 years, and i've never got a favour in return that was in any way equivalent in terms of how much hassle it was for the other party. The most I ever got was a crate of beer. I can honestly say that none of the people I have helped and spent upto 20 hours fixing their PC, would ever consider doing something for me for the same amount of time, and that's not even considering the money aspect.

In Spain there's a standard fee for this

[kikito]

You want me to fix your computer?

Allright.

But you will have to cook a paella for me. Dressed like chicken. Even if it's late at night.

No, really. You own me a favor.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R3nNR_XALoQ

Wais, wais, wais!

DoucheHat is apropos...

[Anonymous Coward]

I tend to get friends and family who give me dinner or gift cards etc when i fix their machines; but perhaps not being a total douche about it has some bearing on the matter.

Seriously man, as someone else said... what a DoucheHat... ffs man... either fix
the person's computer OR DON'T. But don't make a demonstrative expose of
what a wank you are... and then let people see it!

I'm glad this is out there.. maybe he'll lose a good contract in the future cause
someone thinks, well damn... if I ask him to stay for an extra hour, is he gonna
be douchy to me and write me a letter?

Whether or not you WANT, or FEEL INCLINED to help someone is up to you
and your diety or lack thereof. But damn... that letter was asinine. Regardless
of whether it "needed" to be said, it just didn't need to be said.

STFU and GTFO.

-@|

I forgot this is /. I have and do work for friends and family. In fact, I wish my
family (elderly mom) would come to me more often instead of letting me find
out the hard way. [Keylogger, only way I know how to back her out of stuff
she gets herself into, 1000mi away (without a fight, lol)]

PC Pro and 'theft'

[dugeen]

I stopped buying PC Pro in 1992 because of its authoritarian ideas about software being 'stolen' or the object of 'theft'. I'm sorry to see that in the succeeding 19 years they have learnt nothing.

Chrome OS

[Anonymous Coward]

And some of you still don't see a need for a cloud based OS that removes the possibility of these types of problems?!!?

Seriously, if Google ever gets round to releasing it (and do it right) then it will be the saviour for many people.

Re:Chrome OS

[AlienIntelligence]

And some of you still don't see a need for a cloud based OS that removes the possibility of these types of problems?!!?

No... I'm afraid they don't, still.

But I bet they were one (of the early adopters) when they
spin their tales later in life.

-AI

How about some soft skills?

[thsths]

"Can you look at my PC?"

"Sure, I have a few minutes to spare" ... "Hm, this is completely busted. Do you have a backup?"

"No"

"Well then there is not much I can do for you, sorry."

It really needs to be said...

[AlienIntelligence]

Anyone agreeing emphatically with the sentiment and delivery
of TFA... needs to think about EQ.
[ http://ultimatelifestyleproject.com/emotional-quotient/ ]
[ http://psychology.about.com/library/quiz/bl_eq_quiz.htm ]

And your ability to interact with others. If a rant is the solution
then maybe having better methods and avenues of directing
pent-up rage should be sought.

"Because CBS Cares..."

-AI

Re:It really needs to be said...

[thsths]

> Anyone agreeing emphatically with the sentiment and delivery of TFA... needs to think about EQ.

Absolutely - the problem is not the technology or the geek skills - it is communication. Once you communicate clearly, you can avoid most if not all of these issues.

Put It Right Up Front

[Anonymous Coward]

When someone asks me to for a computer fix, I immediately tell them it's $85.00 per hour regardless if anything actually gets fixed... with not just a serious expression on my face, but one that is almost angry. I usually get asked if I am joking; to which I reply that I am not. Next they try to negotiate the price. I refuse and stand on my $85.00 per hour fee. Then they try to get a guarantee, and I deny them that as well. I also add that I will preserve nothing (data or software) on the system. All of this and a surly demeanor for just $85.00 per hour.

I've had family and friends call me a "dick" for this, but I usually ask them if they've ever called their plumber a "dick" to the person's face. 9 out 10 times, they have not. I then remind them that I have the expertise and knowledge and my computers work, and that is why I charge a fee... just like a plumber has the expertise and knowledge and working pipes, and that is why s/he charges a fee.

This all takes about 15 minutes. It costs me nothing to educate someone on the value of expertise and knowledge. The other reason is that I try to avoid mixing business with family/friends... and computers that don't work can cause serious bad feelings between people. As others have pointed out, if you touch a system once for free, you own every problem that computer will have for the next year. If I hear the line "Well, you were the last one who worked on it..." one more time, I may just bludgeon someone to death with her or his laptop. Hence, I charge and make no guarantees or promises to do follow-up work. If someone wants that, they can go let Geek Squad fcuk up their computer.

The interesting part is that about a quarter of the time, I get paid the fee.

Bad Idea

[Anonymous Coward]

I will help people if they ask, but I NEVER accept any form of payment, including beer. When they ask why, I tell them it's because I don't want to get into the business of fixing computers. When they insist, I tell them I can't take any financial responsibility for what happens. This seems to get the point across (without actually saying it): I don't like to do it, and I don't want to do it, but I will this time.

From then on, most of them are hesitant to ask again -- exactly as planned.

Re:UAC to the rescue! (Never thought you'd hear th

[Anonymous Coward]

Same here. My girlfriend got het PC trojaned twice, and each time it took me about 5 hours to clean it. She was irritated by the wait more than anything (and I was irritated at having to do it again), so the second time I convinced her to give up her admin rights.

Now I spend 10 minutes a month screening and installing the software that she really wants and the only downtime since was to add a big harddisk to her machine for her to store her iTunes library on. Happy faces all round.

- Bertus

Re:UAC to the rescue! (Never thought you'd hear th

[thsths]

Did you make a backup? :-)

Re:on about

[TaoPhoenix]

Okay, so I missed twice in a row.

It's a figurative / allegorical comment about the unexpected synergies of individual parts. I'm a YRO guy getting nervous because colectively, the different countries are debuting the components of a total "Blue Deck" lock down of our rights. It's like telling a Blue player he can't have any particular piece - he'll go "okay, so you can ban Timetwister. I'll make my super-combo out of something else".

To see the analogies, start with this latest craze over the Sony key. This is the *second* time little numbers are magically becoming "illegal".

13,256,278,887,989,50 plus a number of zeros equal to the number of cards in the Tarot Major Arcana.

Hey now, I can't even make a CCG deck out of the pieces of YRO, because Wizards patented it!

The simplest way to deal with this...

[Anonymous Coward]

is to tell the person to bring the computer over to your home for repair. This seemingly insignificant hurdle is more than enough to deter nearly all of the people who used to ask me for computer support.

These days though, I've also made it clear that I won't do any MS support at all, as I haven't used Windows regularly in over 5 years. Makes the support problem really go away :)

Send him to Genius Bar

[gig]

they will fix it.

Re:UAC to the rescue! (Never thought you'd hear th

[Anonymous Coward]

I agree with this, I maintain my family's PC. Either they accept an "hidden" Admin account and run as a limited user or they don't get my help. With things like auto-login they shouldn't notice the multiple accounts.

Several family members aren't computer literate enough to have the root password and so haven't been told what it is. After enacting this set up (with Chrome/Firefox as default browser). I've not had to do any work on their machines for a while.
,br>
Other good things to demonstrate are the differences in performance between a machine with MS Secuirty Essentials and Norton/Mcafree and just how much a performance hit iTunes causes (adds an additional 25 seconds to bootup time for my Dads netbook for example).

Wipe and Reload!

[mangusman]

Yes, like many here, I too used to troubleshoot/repair friends/relatives computers and it got very old till I decided one day to tell the non-paying customer, "I'll troubleshoot for 15 minutes, and if I can't get it to a previously known good state, I'm going to wipe the hard drive and reload the OS, and ONLY the OS. Do you want me to continue?" Usually the answer was no. I'd recommend they take it to a computer repair shop.

am i just too nice to relate?

[DEmmons]

most of the time i'll happily drop less important things i might be doing to help a friend, family member, or random person out with a technical problem, simply because i like (and / or am obsessed with) solving problems. i don't really know why, i just rarely find myself feeling annoyed by it. if i did, i'd just say it wasn't something i had the time or resources to fix and point them in the direction of a shop i thought could do it. i figure it keeps me sharp and more in touch with users, and that's important for me. i find rants like this funny and am not above making fun of a user afterward, but sincerely like helping people. is it related to being it manager of a tiny charity in southeast asia? well, it probably helps, but i was always like this. when the tsunami hit Indonesia I was at the UN headquarters cleaning malware off of the doctors' computers so they could do their work. as a Linux user i need this kind of thing to keep my Windows skills sharp, and often keep the malware for my personal collection and / or submission to efforts like ClamAV.

my point here is not to brag or talk about myself, i'm just baffled. i enjoy fixing stuff or i don't do it, and tend to feel appreciated (sometimes paid too, in money or food), and actually care that people who aren't geeks can get proper use out of their computers. am i the only one? if so, what the heck is wrong with me?

I fix them for free and enjoy the opportunity.

[dizzy8578]

I am retired/disabled. I have 20 years experience fixing computers and networks.

I fix computers for free for anyone who is on public assistance or on a tight budget from being under employed. Anyone else can donate cash or defunct hardware or to a charity if they are fully employed.

I do it for fun. I miss the puzzles, and most of the computer users out there can no more clean up after a malware infection than they can remove their own tonsils.

Sure the tedious reloading and scanning is not as much fun as chasing down malfunctioning drivers and polymorphic trojans and rootkits but i get the bizarre puzzles the commercial shops can't invest the time to find and fix.

I have always done computer (and appliance, auto and electronic) repair because I love it. I hope some of you get as much enjoyment out of it as I do. Of course I still curse Bill Gates regularly as well as Steve Jobs (whenever I have to completely disassemble a mac laptop to replace the hard drive) but that (and knowing just how brilliant, demented and out of touch some programmers are) is part of the legacy of the industry. (Win 7 still crashes the copy command when it hits a too long filename)

An artist gotta paint even as he starves. I am grateful people bring their PC's to me to play with because ultimately, I win in the exchange.

I hate it.

[Bender Unit 22]

People think they just can call without warning and I then am happy to spend the entire evening helping them. YES! that was just what I wanted to do, sit all evening with a remote console.
Even when i drive for half a day to visit family, they think i will want to spend the evening, alone, in their homeoffice fixing something.

Worst thing though is that they always expect that i want to do it for free.

Then days after, they call i and claim that something stopped working because i had "tampered" with their machine.

I stopped helping people some time ago. When people called, i just had no solution to their problem. It became easier when Vista came out since, i dropped windows at XP, so I can say without lying that I have never owned a Vista or windows 7 installation. (and at work we still use XP on our desktops with no sign of changing that)

What did I get out of it, all those days wasted helping people. Nothing at all.

Why I stopped being Family Tech Support

[Anonymous Coward]

Incident 1:

Me: "Yeah, I got the computer you mailed me. You said there was a problem with the install."
Family: "It doesn't boot up anymore!"
Me: "Well, I noticed that when I turn it on, I get a Gateway 2000 splash screen before it crashes. I know this isn't how I sent it to you. For one thing, this computer isn't a Gateway."
Family: "That's weird!"
Me: "I guess what I'm getting at is, who put their old Gateway recovery disk into the computer and pressed 'recover'?"
Family: "We have a Gateway recovery disk?"

Incident 2:

I get the PC, and it's not booting properly and running extremely hot. I decide that maybe the CPU heatsink needs to be cleaned out or reseated. After pulling the heatsink off, I notice that the CPU is sitting oddly in the slot. After pulling off the CPU, I see that it had been taken out and then forced back on, flattening a number of the pins against the CPU.

Me: "Did you take the heatsink off of this thing when you were trying to work on it?"
Family: "No... what's that?"
Me: "Well, the CPU was forced back into its slot, and the pins were damaged. You need to buy a new CPU."
Family: "How much does that cost?"
Me: "A hundred dollars or so."
Family: "Oh no! I can't spend that kind of money! Can't you just put it back how it was?" (They just spent $30 to mail me their PC, excluding the cost of letting UPS package it for them.)
Me: "I can do whatever you want, but it's not going to make it work."

I later *did* make it work, by going over the base of the CPU, lassoing the flattened pins with the eye of a needle and straightening them back out. I also decided that I wouldn't be doing any more pro bono tech support for family, because like others have said they're nowhere to be found when I need help. It would be a different story if that wasn't the case.

Re:UAC to the rescue! (Never thought you'd hear th

[Anonymous Coward]

My wife is the only one who gets my full tech support capability, such as it is. But she has to use a regular user account on the Win 7 box. She loves to install 'free' clipart and fonts for her art projects. Let me tell you, the land of free stuff targeted to "slightly older" non tech savy women is a bonaza of trojans and malware download managers. Avira has saved out butts many times because I have it scanning her download directory every 4 hours, so by the time I come home from work and she wants something installed, it's already been scanned and I'm the one installing it.
Oh course she thinks I know everything about every program. When she first got into creating digital art, I was her PhotoShop expert simply because ten years ago I had played around with Paintshop(different program) to create to some bitmaps. Harmony has been finally restored because I can honestly say she knows more about it now than me.

Now my brother on the other hand, well lets just say that I'm well practiced in wiping his XP systems with a fresh install if it takes me more than ten minutes to fix his problem. I owe him from a couple of moves and lots of car work he has done for me in the past. But I have learned the hard way not to look at his browser history. There are some things you don't want to know about someone, especially family.

It's a trap!

[Anonymous Coward]

http://dilbert.com/strips/comic/2010-06-27/

4 Words

[TideX]

Backup, Reformat, Reinstall, F**k off

Wrong way around

[name_already_taken]

Over 90% of the world would rather stick with a PC, despite its occasional troubles, than switch to a Mac.

Similarly, I'd rather have the occasional aching balls than a castration.

Capisce?

Are you threatening the previous poster like some sort of Microsoft-affiliated mobster, or implying that moving from a Windows PC to a Mac is somehow a downgrade?

The Mac I'm using is far more powerful than the Windows PC it replaced. I only have to restart it when I want to, not when it wants to, it has an operating system that was designed from the ground up for security, and I haven't had a hardware failure in at least seven years on any of our Apple machines - in the meantime I have a stack of dead or unusable Windows machines of various brands. I do have Apple machines that are no longer used, but that's because things like a G3 are obsolete by today's standards - they will still work though.

Not similar to having your balls removed at all.

P.S. you might want to get those things looked at. They're not supposed to ache.

A bit behind the times

[Anonymous Coward]

It really isn't that easy. If it was, there would be no need for the user to get help.

First, the data is all over the machine. You just can't rely on "My Documents" to contain all the users data.
Second, those PDF's and Word documents are quite possibly infected with malware, once the machine got infected. Yes, PDF's are a significant vector in transmission.
Third, why has the user not backupped their own machine? Because it is too damn hard! And because the backup software that comes bundled with Windows (7) just plain doesn't work. At all.

But, good to know I can send all requests for help to you, as you seem very competent and very willing to spend your free time fucking with a machine that is beyond salvation anyhow.

You can't steal software

[Anonymous Coward]

Come on. This is slashdot. You can not steal software. The only thing you can do is copyright infringement, which is rather different. From experience, I can say that only a small minority would use, let us say Photoshop, if they had to pay for it. Especially when GIMP is good enough and free.

And this is really a shame, because if there was some magical way to enforce the payment for software (without ridiculous penalties), Linux would have conquered the world.

AC because I am afraid of America, and slashdot is an America-centric site.

Best way is to not be the computer guy anymore

[downhole]

I just stopped identifying myself at the computer guy in my social life. Once I leave the office (and even at the office), I don't know or care about anyone's computer. My roomate has some kind of laptop. I don't know or care what kind or what the specs are. We drink beer, go to bars, hang out with people and watch TV instead of play with computers. Ditto with my friends. My girlfriend has some kind of laptop too. Same deal. We spend out time going out to places and screwing, not playing with computers.

For that matter, I don't care about them much at the office either. We have a desktop support staff that can take care of problems like that so I can do my actual job. So pretty much nobody asks me to mess with their computers, and I didn't even have to be a jerk to anyone.

Revealing you're a tech is the first mistake

[sarbonn]

I used to work as a pc technician, which automatically caused friends, family, acquaintainces, wandering gypsies and anyone else who came across me to think that meant they could contact me to get free (and immediate) services for their computers. So after I stopped being a professional technician, I made a point to never reveal that I could actually fix a computer, or any other computer component. As someone who can actually take apart and fix a printer (something most techs generally can't do, even though they say they can), I found myself one day at the computer lab for the graduate department where I was a grad assistant. Needing a paper printed before class started, I was faced with a printer that was on the fritz. Making sure no one else was around, I opened up the printer, fixed it, and then printed what I needed. What I didn't realize was that some random girl in the grad department was hovering around outside the door, upset that she couldn't print her journal or whatever. When I went to class, she then told everyone I had fixed the printer, and for the rest of my time in grad school, I was known as the guy who fixed the printer, so I couldn't stop people from contacting me over and over about the damn thing. NEVER reveal you're a tech, or people will constantly try to get free work out of you, even when you completely ignore and turn them down over and over again.

Ob. Craig Ferguson

[Anonymous Coward]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QY6iwKDV_3U

Twitter.
Tweet Tweet Tweet.
Twitter.
Chicken Vindaloo is good to eat.
My name is Scooter, I'll fix your computer.
Im a happening guy and a dope troubleshooter.
When you call tech support youll be talking to me.
I got more patience than Mahatma Gandhi.
(Check the tweets) and E-mails.

Re:"Sure I'll fix your computer. If I get to fcku

[Anonymous Coward]

For those that don't know. Michael Cole is a Microsoft Account Manager in Chicago.

Windows fatigue

[Anonymous Coward]

This letter is not fatigue at fixing PCs, it's Windows fatigue. If I had sold that laptop, it would have Ubuntu on it. Then, "I put the DVD in, and there were some weird junk files in with my photos." Ubuntu doesn't get viruses. (And it's not just due to market share, the executable bit helps, and the fact that Morris worm etc. happened in the late 80s gave UNIX that much of a head start about getting really serious about security.) But, it gets better.

          Lets assume there is some Ubuntu virus, for sake of argument. The recovery tools are much MUCH better. With the LiveCD, one could boot that, download the virus scanner, and run it against the hard disk contents (instead of hoping the viruses are not interfering with your scanner.) Furthermore, since instead of a pile of whatever was on the CD, plus service packs, plus patches, plus apps from numerous sources, with Ubuntu every file (outside your home directory) is owned by a package, it should be feasible to reinstall every package, and this would ensure there are not viruses lurking within your executables.