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How Apple Is Beating Nintendo At Its Own Game
Zothecula writes "In an industry obsessed with polygon counts and frame rates, Nintendo's Wii console and DS handheld were the proverbial knives at a gunfight. They were grossly underpowered compared to the competition, meaning Nintendo could sell them at a profit from day one. Their innovative control methods ensured they still sold like hotcakes. An animated GIF of Nintendo's Shigeru Miyamoto and Satoru Iwata holding a DS that printed money became the go to picture to run alongside quarterly announcements of Nintendo's gargantuan profits. If a disheveled man emerged from a time-traveling DeLorean with tales of a near-future Nintendo struggling to sell its latest handheld, I'd have been more surprised about the Nintendo thing. So what on earth happened?"
Because iPhones & iPod Touches can do a lot more than just play games?
This is the reason I will never buy a 3DS (until it is cracked, then..maybe) Every previous nintendo handheld was not region locked, I could safely travel anywhere in the world, purchase a game locally and not have to worry about it not working on my DS/GBA/GB. Now suddenly, Nintendo has decided to region lock 3DS games so if I go overseas I can't buy games for my console.
The title should read "Apple is Beating Nintendo at a Completely Different Game".
Honestly, it's not even comparable. People want iPhones because it consolidates multiple devices into one, eliminating the desire to carry a GameBoy around, and games from the app store hold an entirely different niche in the market than handheld console games. While yes, that niche is dominating the video game market, I don't think it's safe to call them "video games" as well.
But of course, naming the title this is a way to get more hits, so I really shouldn't be surprised.
A Nintendo 3DS that sells for a couple hundred, but costs $20-$30 for cheap little games?
Or the iPad2, costs $500-$600, but costs $1-$5 for cheap little games. Oh, and you can watch Netflix on it.
We should not forget that people tend to associate handheld gaming consoles with nerds and children, whereas mobile phones are *cool*. Every day I see high powered businessmen suited up for a day at work playing Angry Birds on the subway, but I have never seen an adult using a Nintendo.
That is one big thing... Plus also the iPhone is something you can go to work with and not be looked at funny as bringing games to work, and you have a bunch of other non-game apps, and it is a Phone too. The DS game system or even the PSP is still just a game system. The iPhone is a Software Platform, that happens to run games well enough not to be embarrassing.
But added the cost of the game is huge too. If you can get 40 games at the cost of 1 combined that you can get these games when ever you feel board and want a new one it is very handy.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
I love how everyone acts like this really has something to do with Apple. The reality is it would of happened no matter what. Nobody wants to carry an extra device.
The moment selling graphically powerful phones became normal was the moment handhelds were doomed. Apple brought this about earlier perhaps but Moore's law said it was going to happen no matter what.
Me being in the pub beats both of them at their own game. I'm spending money on things. How else is this story about products competing for your money. As for games on a phone being worthless. You tell me someone with an R4 cartridge did find that one out by game 20. Lots and lost of utter dross. Shame on the people that made it.
The sales figures for the 3DS were respectable, and the price drop will continue those sales.
Electronics (and everything, it seems) have taken on the blockbuster movie vibe -- if it doesn't hit BIG IMMEDIATELY then it's a total flop.
Wow. I want to be a /. contributor with nothing to say! It's supa-kool!
So, Nintendo brought a knife to a gunfight (bad) except that they could sell these knives for a profit (good) because they were underpowered (underpowered knives ?), so they could print money (good), except that if a disheveled man emerged from a time machine (say what ?) he would be surprised that they weren't selling after all, or something. And then
A wild STEVE JOBS appears! STEVE JOBS uses DESTROY VALUE. It's super effective!
And they say you don't need editors on the Internet.
The 3DS's major selling point over the DS is the 3D. I'm mildly interested in getting a hold of one just to see how well the 3d works, but I have no interest in owning one. I imagine a lot of people are just perfectly happy with their DS and don't see a need to upgrade for a function they're not interested in.
I love my PSP. It is fantastic, one of the best electronics items I ever purchased... and I never use it anywhere but the shitter anymore. it's just too bulky to carry around when I've already got two cell phones (personal and business) on me as well as my rooted nook (which is now more than half a portable game console itself with cyanogen 7 on it).
I can't see why I'd buy the new one PSP. not without some killer app that I can't get for android (or windows). maybe i'd buy it to pack for trips to see family or something like that, but for those trips I can usually get away with bringing my laptop. Between laptop and nook, I've got most entertainment options covered, or at least enough to last through half a week at the in-laws.
As for control scheme, you're right... as long as you're gaming the way we've been gaming for the past 30 years. I never even tried putting an emulator on my phone or tablet, because the controls would be absurd. I don't even like emulation gaming on my computer, having never found a controller I like (I did eventually get a usb adapter for ps2 controllers. that was ok, when it worked.) I tend to prefer my emulation either on my psp or my ps3. But if you're playing a game designed from the outset for touchscreen, it's really not so bad. Take a look at Battleheart. That would actually be a much worse game on D-pad/joypad and buttons. you could do ok with it on mouse, but it shines with touchpad. you could never play robodefense fast enough with dpad/mouse unless you had korean starcraft reflexes. There's nothing wrong with touchscreen interface as long as the game lends itself to the interface (aside from devices that have generally bad/unresponsive touchscreens of course. Can't blame the games for that though).
As recently as 6 months ago, I'd have said that portable gaming isn't going anywhere. but now with smartphones getting larger screens and cpu/gpus at least as powerful as the computers I had a few yeas ago, and their big brother tablets getting so much software written for them... man it has got to be a scary time to produce a handheld console.
I'm actually interested in the 3DS, and the reason I haven't bought one isn't because of the 3D being a "gimmick" - its simply that there aren't any "must own" titles out for it. This is really the same problem the Wii had as well, and it looks like the WiiU might have next year. There launch lineups for the last few systems have been fairly weak. In the old days, every Nintendo system launched with a brand new Mario title to show off what the system could do, and a lot of other Nintendo properties were available shortly after launch as well. What Nintendo really needs to do for all of their new systems is make sure one of their main properties has a title out at launch, like a new Mario, Zelda or Metroid, or for the handhelds, there should probably be a Pokemon game at launch.
Always thought Nintendo kick Apple's ass if they just added GSM to the DS
Sidetalkin'
Now in 3D!!
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
On the contrary, I bet Nintendo thought they had bottled lightning with the new take on the virtual boy.
Look at it this way. Nintendo had tried motion control before (who had a power glove? I did! looked awesome, worked like complete shit), and it was a dismal failure. They tried it again with newer technology and hit the unexpected console home run of the decade with the Wii. they had console shortages like 3 holiday seasons in a row. You'll never convince me that they didn't purposely orchestrate the lack of supply to drive up demand, but you have to admit that the constant demand over that long a time period was unprecedented. I'm sure Nintendo was just trying to do the same thing again with the 3DS.
The virtual boy wasn't really very good. I did have a chance a number of years ago to play around with some 80s era virtual reality gear, complete with blocky graphics and the virtual boy was a poor facsimile. Granted, it was also significantly cheaper costing probably only a few pennies on the hundred for what a proper set up would cost, but the device itself wasn't really very well marketed. They named it Virtual Boy, which was right there a huge mistake as it wasn't really a Gameboy successor and wouldn't have been even if successful. And they were only able to come out with I think something like 6 titles at launch.
As for the 3Ds, if it weren't for the battery life and cost, I'd get one, it's a much better unit than I would have expected. I was genuinely surprised at how good it was.
I think they've shot themselves in the foot. The poor battery life and high price lead one to consider just waiting for the inevitable 3DSLite. Why be an early adopter when you know from Nintendo's track record that there will be a better version coming in the next year or so? That and the small launch lineup wasn't very compelling.
I remember reading (cant find source) that some of the big wigs at Nintendo told their stock holders that the hardware was done, but they wanted to hold off the release of the 3DS till they had an impressive line up of launch titles. Stockholders wanted a quick pay day from the successor to the system that printed money, and forced it out early.
The system then launched with no games. And gamers, well as much as we like cool new hardware, we actually seem to like games more. No games? No sale. Sorry, that's just how it works. Now the 3DS isn't selling well and there's this sentiment that it won't sell well in the future and everyone (stockholders) is all up in a panic. Actual gamers? Well when that must play game comes out around Christmas then I'll jump, till then... why?
I'm not convinced that iPhones are killing the dedicated hand held market. Maybe diluting it a bit, but nothing like the scare tactics that we're seeing. You're not going to find a game with depth on your iDevice or android that you will with a 3DS or a Vita. If only for the reason that even last gen portable games often went over a gig in size (UMD discs could hold 1.9 gig on them). Your iPhone would be able to realistically hold about 5 games of psp quality before you'd have to delete the old ones to make room for the new. When you start looking at the vita, you're looking at 6 to 8 gig per game. You'd fit one? Maybe two games on your phone?
This is all over inflated.
It should have read "Apple's boat swamps Nintendo's boat by accident". I don't think Apply set out to create some sort of challenger to handheld gaming devices. I'm sure they're pleased to take your money for all those crappy $0.99 games, but I doubt 'dethrone Nintendo' was on their list of objectives for the iPhone.
That said, I find the whole thing a little troubling. One of the advantages of a dedicate machine is dedicated gaming inputs. Touch is cute, and can be quite a good input for some applications, but in a lot of cases its just goddamn awful. Unless the game is designed around touch, touch just plain sucks. I can't see phones regularly building in dedicated inputs anytime soon (I know there are a few isolated cases, but it doesn't look like a trend that's taking off) so if phones replace handheld gaming devices, I think that's going to be it for a lot of people for handheld gaming.
And even if its not, it'll just push everyone into an ecosystem where games are either free or a dollar. Games for passing the time on the subway or something are fine at that price, any game that's not meant to be played for no more than five minutes at a time isn't going to get developed if the best they can hope to sell it is at $1 a pop. I wonder if we aren't seeing the start of something akin to the Atari crash, but for mobile gaming.
Wood Shavings!
- Godai
All that happened is that Wii is nearing end of its life cycle, and 3DS didn't sell as well as they hoped. So what? This summary makes it sound like Nintendo just declared bankruptcy. Wii 2 is slated for next year, and 3DS has a much more attractive price tag now, so let's hold off on premature doomsaying shall we?
It's "de funct" now, so no one cares.
Lateral Thinking with Withered Technology.
Gunpei Yokoi coined the phrase. As long as Nintendo adheres to it, they win every time. When they start blindly grabbing for MOAR POWUR, without offering any meaningful improvements to gaming but only pretty pictures, they lose. They can't compete on graphics-are-everything; that's Sony's and Microsoft's model, and they just plain do it better. Nintendo's only hope to compete is on actual quality, and when they bother to do this, they come out on top.
You'd think that the Wii and DS would have taught them this lesson once and for all, after the disaster that was the N64/Gamecube era. Apparently, however, they need another go-round.
I can't speak for everyone, and I know that there exist many /. UIDs with a strong preference for dedicated devices... but for myself and the people I know, it's all about portability and flexibility.
There's an old saying in photography that the best camera to use is the one you have with you. The same thing goes for personal electronics. A few years ago, I used to carry around a backpack with the following in it:
- Spiral bound note pad
- Paperback book
- 10" laptop
- hand-held GPS unit
- cell phone
- portable CD player
- CD wallet case
- Canon Elph camera
- assorted and sundry other stuff
- extra batteries and charging cables for the above
- (I never got into portable game players, my bag was full--and HEAVY)
Today, I have two options. Either I just carry my iPhone in my pocket, or I include a small bag just big enough for my iPad and an external battery pack which can be used by either device. (if I bring the bag, I also tuck in a bottle of Ghost Pepper sauce--sealed up super tightly--because it's awesome.)
The crazy thing is, I haven't really lost much if any functionality over my previous carry, and at the very worst, it weighs less than 1/4 what it used to. I've also added a ton of functionality: always-on internet access is a big one. Also video recording and conferencing. (And 650k scoville hot sauce, but I digress.)
The absolute last thing I want at this point is to add yet one more device I would have to keep charged and haul around. I don't care if the games are 50 times better, 90% of the time that I play games I'm waiting in line somewhere and don't want a deep gaming experience anyway in the 2 minutes I have.
You catch enchiladas by picking them up behind the head and holding them underwater until they don't kick anymore -VeGas
Apple has taught the world how to capitalize on fanboy mentality. Wanna know who has an even larger fanboy base lying in the weeds? Think back to your childhood - Nintendo, Super-Nintendo, 64 games... Don't you miss those? Wouldn't you love to play some of those again on the go? Imagine: "New Feature to 3DS: all Nintendo games from older systems - $5 a pop." Guess what would happen to 3DS sales then? Shoot, they could even sell them on the iPhone if they wanted to go that route. The fact that Nintendo doesn't tap into this full-throttle is, and continues to be, the strangest enigma in free-market capitalism I have ever seen.
In debates about Christianity, there are two groups: those looking for answers, and those looking to just ask questions.
.... the Nintendo DS became a non-starter for me. My middle "hyper-active" child destroyed 2 Nintendo DSes then after a Craigslist buy of a used DS went badly - the screen was broken - I had had enough of the overhead of the DS. I would find the cartridges all over the house and each new game was typically $35-$45 a pop (yes I know there are used games that can be had much more cheaply and there's also the flash drive attachment) but the fact was my kids were always losing the carts and/or simply breaking the DS much too easily.
I was almost ready to get a new DS for my eldest child at Costco when I scanned over to the iPod Touch for another $30 or so and it occurred to me it was ultimately way, way cheaper to own the iPod and just use the free app store games - and the occasional $0.99 game as a "treat." I practically started a trend with my friends and relatives as suddenly all their kids had iPod touches after that.
Now roughly 3 years later the Touch is still around - unbroken! - and we never lose games, pay only a buck here or there when we want a bit nicer game, and those paid games are stored in iTunes so we never lose them regardless. The iPod Touch just seems a whole lot sturdier too, if only because it doesn't have a swiveling base. Overall, for a family when you want your kids to have a road trip gadget, the iPod Touch is a way saner and ultimately less expensive choice - not to mention your kids can also have videos and music on the same device, which is also a huge win for those long road trips.
This for me. I just bought a new DS not long ago I barely use. I use it some, but I just don't see the incentive (even if I see my DSi) to get a 3DS when there is maybe two games on it I want. One of them is a remake too.
by Anonymous Coward: I, for one, welcome the shift from car analogies to pizza analogies. um.. overlords?
I remember the Power Glove. I even remember the Mattel logo on the box. Nintendo didn't have anything to do with its development.
The 3ds looks like a sad device from the 80's, two tiny little screens surrounded with massive amounts of plastic in a thick case. I see kids squinting playing them and think that is they best they got? In 2011?
Sadly (for us Sony haters), it looks like Sony is building some decent kit. Hats off. Decent sized screen, nice input buttons (if your going to have buttons, they better be good), still very portable. If I was in the market would likely purchase this over a Nintendo in a heartbeat (admittedly have not looked at other factors like game selection).
Since phones and iPods can play games "good enough" for the mass market, and do a lot more as well, the portable market for a dedicated game device will hence forth be a niche market, even if that niche is numbered in the millions.
Could you imagine if Nintendo teamed up with Apple in a full partnership to make something like this? Then they released a bunch of old 16 and 32 bit games for it ported to run natively on the phone? With good advertising, a big name like Nintendo (and their game library) behind it, and a small but lucrative side business licensing the tech to third party developers... that could be a license to print money. I'd certainly be willing to pay $50 or $60 bucks for the controller, and maybe $10 for the games. It's more than phone games usually cost, but with real controllers you could do a lot more.
I don't need a million points of light, just two points of multi-mode fiber and a 10 Gig-E router.
I can play Pirates! on my iPad - WTF would I want any other gaming device,?
They just don't have the controls necessary to allow much in the way of gaming.
A touchscreen has infinite possible variations of controls.
If you must have hardware buttons - buy them.
But frankly even FPS games do not HAVE to have hardware buttons...
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
It was an officially licensed nintendo product. It was all over the pages of Nintendo's own magazine, Nintendo Power, with all sort of articles and commentary devoted to it. Nintendo created a "gaming series" designation specifically for the power glove games. it was featured prominently in the nintendo-produced movie "the wizard".
I think it's safe to say that even if it was manufactured by Mattel, it still had PLENTY of official Nintendo marketing dollars behind it, pushing it as a significant peripheral to enhance their brand.
The main reason that the Wii motion control succeeded and the Power Glove didn't is that it comes with the Wii. Since everyone has one, companies are willing to write games for it.
It's very hard for an add-on to a game machine to succeed as a general purpose device (although it can succeed as an accessory that is basically only used for the game it comes with). Game companies will write games for the lowest common denominator to sell to as wide an audience as possible, so they won't make the game depend on the add-on.
Yep, that's exactly why DS sales started tanking the second the iPhone and Android phones became big. Oh, right, they didn't. Perhaps the 3DS's 3D just sucks* and people are buying DSs/iPhones instead? Meanwhile, Nintendo is doing the whole cheaper downloadable games thing on the 3DS with DSiWare and Virtual Console games, although at closer to five times the price. Meanwhile, the "hardcore" gamers can still buy their $50, 50 hour games. Overall, I just don't see how price has to do with it though except the 3DS being priced up front and the iPhone's prices being spread over two years, although the iPhone ends up being a good bit more. The only real thing I could really see Nintendo doing to offset this would be a rent-to-own setup, but that seems pretty ridiculous given there being no obvious monthly setup for pricing.
*By this, I mean it's a gimmick. The DS only became a hit because there was no good strong competitor (the PSP had a bad reputation on load time/battery life and the DS leveraged years of GBA games). The Wii became a hit in part because it well targeted at the casual game (which the iPhone, if it were really ubiquitous, could do as well) and party because its competitors failed (the PS3 cost too much and the XBox 360 was too devote to hardcore gamers). I can certainly see the Wii's successor falling flat on its face for being gimmicky as well, much the same way the Dreamcast did. Yes, there might be a collection of games or uses for all those features like two screens, one a touch screen, or motion detection or tiny separate screens for multiplayer games, but it's not usually enough on its own to really drive sales.
Eurohacker European paranoia, gun rights, and h
But is it hurting Nintendo's sales significantly?
Since Nintendo considers Apple more of a threat than Sony I think we can assume that in fact it is affecting things - especially combined with the drastic price cut on the 3DS which indicates low sales.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Nintendo got greedy and instead of producing high quality games worth a few tenners it charges 50 euro's for games that are free on phones. Play Ridge Racer. It is an insult at the price. It is the same exact game you paid for decades ago at full price. Where are the triple A titles? Zelda? A remake of an old game that wasn't exactly the best to begin with.
And while I think there is a market for a GOOD handheld console, the 3DS just wasn't it. 3D and gyro's in the same system. How insane can you get? The screen brightness is a joke in even dim sunlight, the battery life is abysmal and the screen is smaller then the DSi XL. The styling? Decades out of date. This is a kids device but is harmfull for kids eyes according to Nintendo itself and costs a fortune and the games are insanely expensive.
The GB and GBA came into a world with no competition at the their price point. The quality sucked but hey, they were cheap. Now the 3DS ain't cheap and there is plenty of competition.
And I am not going to struggle with an insane 3D camera control in Splinter Cell all the while having to hold the machine perfectly still while trying to make anything out on a blackscreen blasted by sunlight.
Meantime I can play free games all I want on a high-rez amoled screen that automatically adjusts its brightness according to the environment and not worry about the battery draining before it has booted up.
Back to the drawing board Nintendo or you might just see Sony produce a handheld that does better then a gameboy.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
Getting whacked in the head with a 30-pound salmon might just kill you.
This is really the same problem the Wii had as well
Okay, what? Were you not paying attention while sales of the Wii far, FAR outpaced sales of the next-gen consoles from Microsoft and Sony? Retailers couldn't stock Wiis fast enough to keep them on the shelves for two Christmases in a row.
Somehow I don't think Nintendo ever thought of the Wii as having any sort of "problem".
#DeleteChrome
The Wii targeted simpler games for simpler people; that's why it sold. Remember, it used to be at a $300 price point when it FIRST came out, and it sold millions of consoles by word of mouth in it's first weeks.
Actually, not if you're talking USD. It was $250 USD at launch (the same price the 3DS launched at) and was the first Nintendo system to launch at more than $200 USD.
When the Wii launched, it had two consoles to compete with.
The incumbent was the Xbox 360, launched a year earlier. While considerably more powerful than the Wii, it had a higher price tag ($400 at the time, as I recall). It had already started to sell to the "hardcore" gamers.
The other newcomer was the PlayStation 3. While more powerful than the Wii, it had a much higher price ($500 20GB and $600 60GB models) and was much harder to develop games for. Sony appeared to be betting a lot on the PS2's reputation here.
Here's the thing: At launch, Nintendo managed to successfully target two audiences at once. The first was Nintendo's traditional market, which tends to be the younger generation and parents. The second was the casual market, with Wii Sports and the like. The price point worked for both of these markets.
To this day, Nintendo still makes games aimed at the younger generation. The thing is that the Casual market has moved away from the Wii. While the motion controls were an interesting concept at first, interest in them has waned. Which makes it all the more amusing that Sony came out with the Move and Microsoft came out with the Kinect.
The only reason that the Wii is still the top selling console is because the Xbox 360 is, and always has been, selling terribly in Japan/Asia. Incidentally, the Xbox 360 is selling almost as well in two of the major regions (North America and Europe) as the Wii is in all three.
GLaDOS for President 2016! "Well here we are again. It's always such a pleasure." -- GLaDOS, 2011
Not to be "that guy," but it's time to be that guy. How do you justify buying your kids replacements for stuff they don't take care of?
It's about time that the nGage finally took off! Sidetalkin' forever yo!
Though I do agree that the 3DS was pushed early and that the iPhone is taking *some* market share...you really can't compare the two. The iPhone has some great original games like Cut the Rope, Angry Birds, and Osmos just to name a few which I thoroughly enjoyed and consider quality titles but dedicated handheld gaming platforms like the DS/3DS are on an entirely different scale. You aren't going to see the depth of a modern day Mario or Zelda on an iPhone which has games that are also fun and challenging but lack the longevity and detail that sometimes makes it feel like parlour games in comparison that are more suitable to the casual game player. Oh, and control on the iPhone (or any touch screen) sucks. Yeah I know they have dedicated controls that you can plug in it supposedly but until it becomes more adopted and standard it's not really worthy of argument.
Shut up jerk! I care!
2. A gimicky feature that something like 10% of the people in the world can't see (myself included).
...and which prompted "OMG!!! Don't let your children play this or they'll grow up to be blind axe murderers!!!" stories in the press.
However, forcing people to pay extra for a crappy gimmick that ruins the entertainment seems to be working out for movie theaters, so who's to say...
In a survey of 100 programmers, 111111 thought that duck-typing was a good idea.
I too just recently bought a nook to root. I had some gift cards/rewards points so got it NIB for about $135...and WOW...that a tablet for that kinda price!!
Anyway...could you elaborate on what apps, and what games you found were the best on it?
This nook project is my first hands on exposure to anything Android before.
Thanks in advance!
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
It takes a ton more talent to produce the high quality graphics of todays games High quality graphics means lower profit and more expensive hardware . I bought the WII for 3 games Zelda,Metroid,Mario and exercising and i was extremely disappointed with the sub par graphic. I'm just going to wait it out for better quality games. hope I live long enough though lol. Nintendo doesn't have anything to worry about from Apple.The have time waster games not the AAAA titles Nintendo has even if they are not high quality graphics. Everyones waiting for the next Mario or Zelda titles. :}
Jack of all trades,master of none
Last I checked, all 3D movies had 2D equivalents playing in the same multiplex. No one is being FORCED to watch a 3D movie.
It doesn't mean much now, it's built for the future.
Agreed. If the kids abuse what you are giving them, then don't give them a second. Calmly explain that this is why they cannot have nice things. Then give them a book to read on long car rides instead. When they complain, be the adult in the room and tell them that life is unfair and it's too bad.
I was being generous to the DS for the sake of argument.
3. An $80 system price increase. ($250 versus the DSi XL's $170 and DS Lite's $120)
It's $170 as of tomorrow. Target and Wal-Mart are already selling it for that price today.
Yes, happened is past tense. This is a list of things they did wrong.
Even with this price drop, that only fixes one of the five problems I outlined, and even then, you may see the DSi XL drop in price as well.
GLaDOS for President 2016! "Well here we are again. It's always such a pleasure." -- GLaDOS, 2011
Seems like the justification is that iPod Touch is more durable than Nintendo DS.
Exactly. I bought the DS for my daughter when she was 3 and have used it to teach her how to treat electronics. She's still got that DS, and it is in great shape. She also hasn't lost any of the games. I had to replace one stylus, but I actually don't think that was her fault. If you don't teach a child how to treat the things they care about, they won't ever learn. I've seen far too many people of all ages abuse their portable devices and then blame the devices for their failures.
The prices and versatility of the iPod touch, iPhone and iPad have all but killed the market when it comes to kids and casual gamers. The versatility makes it more of a useful tool for adults to justify and for kids you can go through 30 games to find one your kid likes cheaper than buying 1 DS cartridge. The quality of iOS games have been steadily improving as well with more and more genres being covered. Even for hardcore gamers there are games with depth showing up that have better multiplayer options and equal gameplay. Some games even look better than anything on the other handhelds. It will be interesting to see what happens with Sony's next handheld offering but I have a feeling that dedicated handheld gaming platforms are going to be a niche product from now on. The only way to really counter that is with pricing and I dont see either sony or nintendo wanting to play that game at all. Nintendo's most reasonable prices stuff are on their download store and the cheapest are 200 points (roughly $2) which sounds reasonable but the stuff in that range generally wouldn't qualify as a demo much less a full game. On the sony side many of the 3rd party games coming out are ports of iOS games at a higher price. I just dont see them being willing or able to compete. The casual war is lost the only thing they can do now is go for the highest specs possible and hope the hardcore can't resist.
Speaking of regions, why is this story tagged as Japan, instead of Apple or Nintendo or Games?
When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
They are kids accidents happen. My daughter broke her ds when she tripped over the dog in the kitchen...screen snapped off. The DS subsequent devices have been pretty fragile in comparison to the old gameboys and gameboy advance.
This schoolkid now is more likely to get iPhone/Androidphone than mobile phone _and_ DS. That's the point.
My favorite android games are Battleheart, Robodefense, and Game Dev Story. I've had fun with others, including the ubiquitous Angry Birds series. Also a bunch of the little cheapie games are worth throwing on there. I had fun with jewels, simon, etc. My wife plays words with friends and stair dismount a lot. I must admit that stair dismount is viciously good fun. Zombieville is a pretty good little action game, but suffers a bit from bad controls.
For ebooks, The Nook android app for it is damn near as nice as the full nook firmware. The title/menu navigation is a bit slower (maybe it's just cause I have like 150 books in the same directory), but the actual reading experience may be even better. I've tried aldiko, the other popular reader software, and I like the nook for android better.
I'm a big fan of the Winamp app for android. I tried poweramp, which seems to get all the press... and it was nice, but I'm not paying for it when winamp is 95% as good and also free. I got the album art grabber app to help download album covers. I installed rockbox's android port on my droid, but didn't like it enough to try it on my nook. it has a great back end, but it's still unstable and the UI leaves a lot to be desired after the polish seen in winamp and poweramp.
I have both Astro file manager and ES File explorer on there. ES is probably the better file manager, but I use astro out of habit. Astro will also install .apk files for you, no need to download a dedicated apk installer. Maybe ES will do the same, I haven't tried yet.
of course you've got apps like yahoo and aim messenger, facebook, google+, etc. For some reason I have problems installing the latter 2 on my nook. the market pages for them are missing a download button. i see everything except a button to get them. maybe 1 out of 10 apps I want have that problem on my nook (no problems at all on my droid). I don't know if it's a configuration problem, a cyanogen problem, or what... but there are other sources (.apk files mostly) for apps you can't get off the market.
also, dolphin browser is fairly superior experience to the built-in webkit-based browser that android comes with. the only thing dolphin is missing is an easy way to change tabs without scrolling all the way to the top, but perhaps I just haven't dug deep enough into the configuration yet to find it. I haven't tried the firefox android port yet.
So, Nintendo brought a knife to a gunfight (bad) except that they could sell these knives for a profit (good) because they were underpowered (underpowered knives ?)
That's not a knife...[ssshinggg] That's a knife!.
Remember: Always keep an edge on your knife
When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
Pretty much. Nintendo jumped on the 3D bandwagon and, like the rest of the entertainment industry is realizing, it isn't a gimmick that people are interested in paying a premium for.
'Pundits' have been paid to hype this whole Apple vs Nintendo thing since the DS came out and no one noticed, the DS went on to sell a metric fuck-ton of units. The 3DS sells well but it hasn't blown away the DS so some people think it's not doing well. THe world is in a recession, the 3DS is more expensive and the DS has a ton of games. Of course it will be slow going and it has nothing to do with Apple.
Not true everyone has been playing with your mom since 1985 and it's not getting old yet.
Ah, but both Apple and Nintendo are worried about the same problem: commoditization of hardware. That's why Apple so tightly controls the iOS platform, and why Nintendo doesn't sell their games for anything besides Nintendo hardware. Nintendo and Apple seem like very unlikely bedfellows for that exact reason. They're much more likely to be competing viciously against each other than working together.
Check out my world simulator thingy.
Strange, I know a lot more people who have broken their iPhones (or other smartphones) than those with broken DS's.
The biggest issue with the DS seemed to be that craptastic hinge which eventually loses resistance and just sorta flops around after that.
Sony broke contract. They made CD tech only (I don't think they did computers yet at that time) and were Japanese so they were a hardware partner. Nintendo sued for breaking the contract, like 10 years later got a HUGE amount of money (billion? I forget) Sadly, the penalty didn't make up for Sony breaking it so what are business contracts worth if you can gamble them away with high profits?? Same goes for worker abuse, pollution etc. without a real business COST to negate the benefits they will ignore law.
Democracy Now! - uncensored, anti-establishment news
Nintendo didn't see a problem, but people who bought it did. Once the novelty wore off, a lot of people started to notice the game line up wasn't too stellar, with a lot of the games using motion as little as possible. A lot of wii's began to gather dust as people waiting for something to do on them. Most of my wii owning friends haven't turn theirs on in months to years.
people can buy about 20 iPhone games for the price of one 3DS game
Perhaps, but I bought 90 games for the original DS for $35. It even has an editor where you can make your own 8-second games.
There used to be clip-on control panels for adding things like d-pads to Nokia phones, and I'd be surprised if the same didn't exist for the iPhone and friends.
There is the iControlPad, but developers of games for iPhone and iPod touch can't count on players already owning a $70 accessory.
Me being in the pub
What should people do while waiting 21 years to qualify for that?
You tell me someone with an R4 cartridge did find that one out by game 20.
R4 cartridges can run pirated NES and Super NES games as well as pirated DS games. Are you also calling those "utter dross"?
If you teach your kids to take care of their stuff, you avoid many, many future battles. Teaching kids a little responsibility and the value of a dollar is your job as a parent. If you choose not to fight that battle, you are failing your children.
Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
The 3DS had almost no good launch titles and still suffers from a lack of first party nintendo games, no one wants to buy a console that doesn't have a decent game library. Additionally most people are probably waiting for the inevitable 3DS light or 3DSi upgrade version coming in another year or two that promises improved and additional features at the same price as the original 3DS.
Seconded. My 4 year old daughter has been using my old 1st Gen. Touch for a year now... dropped it, smeared it with whatever gunk was on her fingers... sometimes the screen was so encrusted with god-knows-what it felt like a relief-map of the alps. At one point some sugary goo must have entered the device, because the home-button stopped working. I figured I hadn't much to lose, so I soaked the bottom half in an alcoholic cleaner... whaddaya know -- it works again like on day one.
:-)
I initially bought the thing as a (rather expensive) toy for myself, but it turned out to be an invaluable Device For Peace And Harmony On Long Road Trips And Train Rides.
She doesn't yet play games, but loves to watch old Sesame Street clips, Shaun The Sheep, look at the family photos I loaded onto it and listens to music. At 3 years old she had the interface figured out in about two days.
P.S.: Being a Responsible Parent I obviously severely limit her time with the iPod, also I used the parental controls to lower the maximum volume.
sig? Oh, that sig...
It's OK to be slightly less powerful than competitors if you offer creativity.
However, if you are TOO MUCH underpowered then you're not going to compensate it with better _anything_. And iPhone is also a nice general-purpose computer - you can even make phone calls with it!
Add to that the fact that the purchase price of the iPhone is often subsidized by the service contract (thus, mostly hidden from the consumer), and a dedicated portable gaming device such as a DSi becomes a much more difficult purchase to justify. People don't usually take the running costs of the iPhone into account when they compare it to the DSi because the latter's is effectively nil*. The ongoing carrier's charge is not viewed as the cost of running an iPhone, it's seen as the cost of running any phone, so it's excluded from the comparison (not necessarily consciously, though).
* Yes, I know there's electricity for recharging, but that too is a hidden cost.
Ahh - My eye!
The doctor said I'm not supposed to get Slashdot in it!
The NES can't handle close to that many rotating moving objects.
sure it could, it'd just be flickery as all hell. remember mega man?
The NES allows sprites to cover 64 pixels across the screen, or 1/4 of the width, and flicker happens when the 64 pixels are chosen from different sprites in each frame. But it doesn't allow rotating sprites at all, except by 180 degrees, unless all rotations are precalculated and stored in the CHR ROM. Real-time sprite rotation didn't become possible until consoles gained texture mapping hardware (Super FX coprocessor on Super NES, Saturn/PS1/N64, Game Boy Advance).
by "complexity", I meant complexity of design, plot, and pacing.
As I understand it, those are possible. A 4 MB game with Super NES-class visuals, especially something with minimal control requirements like a 16-bit Square/Enix RPG, could easily fit on an iDevice or Android-powered device. It's just that the market on these devices has shown its preference for "snack" sized games over "meal" sized games.
I think it's really telling that in a conversation about the 3DS' lackluster performance, no one seems to be mentioning the 3D screen. That's the feature I assume Nintendo was counting on to set them apart from Apple and Sony (much like the motion control set the Wii apart). But they made that bet back when people were still happy to pay extra for 3D movies, and the tide against 3D has clearly shifted.
As a 3DS owner I usually turn the 3D effect off because it hurts my eyes, but even if you don't mind it, to most people it's obviously not even worth mentioning.
Nintendo doesn't have much to worry about.
Unless someone makes a nice case with an integrated control button setup that doesn't suck.
Maybe Nintendo should make that.. what's better than selling a DS? Selling a DS with no electronics inside.
I'll take royality checks, or a cushy idea job now. :D
..don't panic
How do you justify buying your kids replacements for stuff they don't take care of?
It is in the nature of children to be immature.
Adults tend to forget that fact, especially if they are (a) between 18 and 30 or (b) live in a relatively childless hipster haven such as the Bay area or Manhattan. Those demographics are relatively unexposed to children.
Immaturity manifests itself in many ways that, in adult behavior, is clearly irksome. These include loud speech, intransigence, rambunctiousness, lack of foresight, and reckless or dangerous behavior. If you hold children to adult behavior standards, you will be irked.
I try to see the good and ignore the faults in everyone. In the case of children, that means allowing for their immaturity (and even sometimes reveling in it). It's made easier because the good side of most kids includes such endearing traits as cuteness and enthusiasm.
Specific to something like a broken toy, I would tend to use its breakage as a teaching moment. But if the value proposition is still there, I would also replace it.
The system just sucks, that's it. The library is garbage, the battery life problematic (and this is a NINTENDO system! Well, at least it still gets twice the battery life of an iPod Touch when gaming...), the hardware fairly ugly and badly thought out (bottom screen scratching top screen, anyone?), even the system settings have load screens and until recently it was awfully overpriced. The 3D works but it's not really worth the effort of holding the system very steady and there's a general 3D backlash happening to cinemas, that'll likely hit the 3DS too.
If you want to play good games you'll likely end up using your 3DS as a DS with worse graphics (the rescaling is ugly and if you disable it you get a tiny screen) and no option to adjust the brightness without quitting out of the game (on the DSi you can adjust the brightness with select + volume, on the 3DS you have to go into the home screen and you can't do that while playing a DS game).
A few people think "awesome, 3D!" and buy the system but the majority just looks at the library and wonders what the 3DS does that the DS doesn't. There are only a few games even in the green on Metacritic and none of those are system sellers, the best ones (Zelda, Street Fighter) are ports.
The 3DS hardware could use a DS lite-style redesign and the game library needs some titles that convince people that their old DS just won't cut it anymore.
What the 3DS has over the iPod Touch is buttons. Many traditional games suffer badly from the lack of physical inputs, only genres that are adjusted to the device are really usable which really limits the library. Same goes for the rock bottom pricing, at 1$ per game companies will either have to cut enough corners to call it a circle or they'll attempt to trick you into paying a ton more than that in the form of microtransactions (and a ton of games are just crappy excuses for selling microtransactions, like Tiny Tower). It's a sparse diet and the vegetation reflects that.
While simple, cheap minigames probably won't do well at DS-level prices it works the other way around too, the increasing dev costs for those "AAA" games means they can't be sold at single digit prices, especially if they're aimed at the niche that are hardcore gamers. There's just not enough of those to make it up in volume. The iOS systems are going that route with beefier hardware and more middleware like the Unreal Engine that pretty much demand high quality assets and those require high budgets.
Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
Don't bother with FF on Android, its HORRIBLE.
If you break a DS you can go to the nintendo website and buy a replacement for $85.
I love Jesus, except for his foreign policy.
The casuals moved away from the Wii due to a lack of compelling software. There hasn't been much since New Super Mario Bros Wii that appeals to those people (yes, they play 2D Mario games, that's why NSMBW massively outsold Galaxy 2 despite every hardcore gamer swearing up and down that Galaxy 2 is better).
Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
Why would Nintendo just shove their profits up Apple's ass like that? That would only benefit Apple, Nintendo wouldn't see much of a sales volume increase (what are high sales numbers on the App Store? I know Angry Birds boasts about high *downloads* counts but that's like saying "millions of people saw this on shelves") while their per-sale revenue would drop to a tiny fraction of its old value. Nintendo's biggest hitters regularly sell 20+ million copies at full retail price, on the App Store their prices would have to go down massively but I'm not convinced that they'll sell 200+ million in turn. Are there even that many iPhones out there?
Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
This is a pet hate of mine, but "hot cakes" is two words. TWO. 2.
Not one.
It's cakes which are hot.
Delicious because they're freshly baked. That's why the sell well.
Cakes which are hot.
hot cakes.
Two words.
SJW n. One who posts facts.
Thing is that the 3DS, because it is a toy, has just a beautiful interface. It's even shinier and prettier than OSX.
It's maximized for neither efficiency nor speed, certainly. But the touchscreen interface reactions --the individualized chords built into button click reactions, for example-- are so detailed, they make you want to push all the buttons just to see how they respond. Lag is anticipated, and the meters are much better than multicolored spinning wheels or wildly disparate time estimates.
The controls are what you would expect from the company that developed the NES controller, after decades of further in-depth button, cross, trigger, and stick interface R&D. Even the tiny little volume slide seems like the braking touch was carefully developed. The media UI through the 3DS OS is much better than the minimum-acceptable-functionality that I can access from my couch with company-supplied VOD remotes. If I can end up using this as a remote, it would seem like top-shelf control hardware compared to those horrible rubber buttons.
I only bought this thing to play the Ocarina of Time. I managed to never play the original, and going through such a lauded game for the first time on overpriced hardware seems as indulgent as a spa or luxury mattress. So streaming Netflix was an unexpected bonus --even the new Chromebooks cannot, and they're running more than twice as much.
I'll cop to my own possible bias --I bought a 3DS early, and might be trying to psychologically overcompensate for getting socked the extra cash. The price dropped days after I bought mine; it blows no doubt. Especially b/c you could have both got it at the reduced price and made the "ambassador program", at least if you do it in the next few hours. (Free crap I'd have long ago downloaded elsewhere if I gave a crap about it. Nice to have undoubtedly legal copies of old libraries, I guess.)
The 3D thing made me dizzy after a minute and I mostly keep it off (except for the cut-scenes, because what the hell), but it's fun to play this, and I've gone a few hours at a stretch. It might easily turn out to be the most polished game for this OS, but polish the 3DS has in spades.
True. But the teaching moment is found in not replacing the broken toy. If there is no realization that the toy had value and that the value requires effort to replace....there is no lesson to be learned.
There is also a lesson for the parent. Protect your investment. Buy a nerf cover for your child's DS. Collect the loose DS cartridges and put them in a safe place, unbeknownst to the child. When the child misses his favorite game, explain where it is and why it is there. If the child repeats said behavior, remove the game from play for an extended amount of time.
Teaching your kid that they are some kind of special Golden Child who will have every desire serviced or that immediate gratification is the way of the world is a serious disservice to both the adult they will become and the world that will have to put up with them. Quite frankly, I'm really getting tired of seeing these adults in the workplace. And yes....I have two children. 10 and 6. The 10 year old had to save his money and buy his first DS. The 6 year old understands that his first one was free because he didn't have an allowance at the time....but if it is damaged it will be replaced with his funds (which may take months or a year to build up). Teaching your child the hard realities of personal or financial responsibility is part of your duty to that child.
I don't disagree, but as a parent: Are you a parent?
true that, my wii is sitting on top of my blu ray player, but hasnt been turned on in months. I have it softmodded, so even though the costs of games can be essentially zero for me, i cant be bothered with most. I mostly did the mod just for the hell of it though.
When i got a gamecube, there were compelling titles at launch, Roque squadron, smash bros, good stuff, but somehow the wii didnt have that much going for it at launch other then the gimmicky movement based games. Sure, metroid 3 is good, the new smash bros/mario kart did the basic iterative improvement which nintendo always does on their franchises, but to me it always lacked the blockbuster titles that other consoles have/had.
I probably will buy a wii-u, but only because my GF will keep harassing me about some gimmicky motion game..
People, what a bunch of bastards
There. I said it.
Sure, you can play games on your IOS or Android powered phone or tablet, but the control interface on these is far from ideal.Just like you can play movies on your phone and music and games doesn't mean it's the best device for all these things.
I use a separate MP3 player because I don't want to drain my phone's battery (which oddly enough hardly lasts a day where I work but can last 5 days on a single charge at home, probably too much tower switching).
I use a separate gaming handheld (in my case a GP2X Caanoo) because my phone lacks proper inputs.
As for Apple, I care about as much about Apple as i do about Microsoft, namely diddly shit.
Well to sum things up. When the DS came out, i basically bought myself a hack rom, I uploaded a load of homebrew stuff, and suddenly the thing became a pda with good gaming controllers. I suddenly could play movies use it as an mp3 player etc.. and did not have to carry around the cartridges with me anymore. The thing was so much better. Than I had a look at nintendos half assed approaches and saw how bad the console was compared to what I had.
Now fast forward a little bit.
IOS does what I loved about the "jailbroken" NDS + the games are 1-3 dollars each.
As a parent it makes a difference if I buy a 40-50 dollars casual game or a 1-3 dollars casual game.
As a user I care about having just one device doing everything and most of it good enough.
2 Years ago when I saw the introduction of the iPad and a load of kiddies standing around playing on it while the Nintendo section basically was empty (in a local electronics store) I thought to myself. Nintendo now has a serious problem.
buying a second DS for his kid was justified by the fact that the ipod is sturdier?
Fail, if your kid breaks his DS (and it wasnt a freak accident, just basic carelessness), dont just give them a new one, teach them the value of the thing, by doing weekly chores / having them save up for a new one.
People, what a bunch of bastards
The 3DS isn't selling because Nintendo misread the market. a) They thought people wanted 3D. They don't. b) Nintendo thought that people would think that $250 for a glasses free 3D system would be a bargain. They didn't.
People who think that iDevices are killing portable gaming don't really understand the market. Nintendo's portible market has been carried by gamers and soccer mom's buying handhelds for years. Gamers scoff at playing games on a system without buttons, and rightfully so. There's no comparison. Soccer mom's still buy their kids DS's because their kids want real games and because Nintendo systems are rugged. Fruit Ninja only holds its appeal so long and iPod Touches are much more fragile than a DS. Not only that, a DS is a lot cheaper than the touch. Unfortunately, up until today, the 3DS was more expensive...to the point that it made people second guess their purchase. And, frankly, I hardly blame them.
To throw fuel on the fire, the 3DS just seems downright antiquated. The design is poor (aesthetically) and the graphics just look a generation behind. When ipod touches have better graphics than a dedicated gaming system, that's kind of sad.
In short, Nintendo is killing their market share, not Apple. I'm sure Apple has taken a few potential customers, but the markets are completely different.
Wise men say, "Forgiveness is divine, but never pay full price for late pizza."
Apple already has patents on 3d touch technology, physical buttons are history. The future is touch, sensors that can detect where you are in a 3d space and adapt to your movements. With this technology perfected, any interaction can be replicated. It's the future, and Apple is leading the way.
A 500$ 5-year iOS developer certificate? What planet are you from?
Earth. It costs $99 for the first year, $99 for the second year, $99 for the third year, $99 for the fourth year, and $99 for the fifth year. So I rounded.
Last I checked, all 3D movies had 2D equivalents playing in the same multiplex. No one is being FORCED to watch a 3D movie.
Yeah, right, because all the multiplexes have magically acquired twice as many screens as they had before, so they can do this without restricting your choice of showtimes or reducing the range of movies they carry. Duh!
In a survey of 100 programmers, 111111 thought that duck-typing was a good idea.
It's not the immaturity of children that bothers me, but the immaturity of adults. Not having my broken toys replaced was how I learned to take care of them. If every broken toy is replaced, the child never matures. Children need to start learning, as soon as they're able, that their actions have consequences. Just because one does have the money to replace everything one's child breaks doesn't mean one should.
If Nintendo would use their Nintendo 3DS to sell full games as digital downloads at $5 to $10 both the 3DS and their games would sell like crazy.
Hell, they could even offer a free firmware update for their DS to allow it to accept a of the shelf 8GB SD card and allow for full games to be downloaded for $10 and they would make a shit ton on additional money on the DS.
My God can beat up your God. Just kidding...don't take offense. I know there's no God.