So Far, More Than 50,000 Kindle Fire Pre-Orders Per Day

An anonymous reader writes "Leaked screens from Amazon's internal stock monitoring and assignment system (Alaska) has revealed just how popular the Kindle Fire tablet is already. In just 5 days of being up for pre-order there have been 250,000 reserved. That's more than 50,000 per day or 2,000 sold every hour. If that continues to launch day Amazon will need to have 2.5 million ready to ship to meet demand. To put that in context, the original iPad managed to ship 1 million in its first month." The key phrase seems to be "if this level of consumer demand continues" — but given the success of the e-ink Kindle line, that might not be crazy. Do you want one, or not?

Comments

50,000 a day?

[heptapod]

If there's a great depression going on throughout the world, where the hell are people finding the scratch to piss away on electronic devices that will be stuck in a walled garden and bricked in less than a decade?

Re:50,000 a day?

[tripleevenfall]

This device, at $200, can actually give people on limited budgets an entry way to using the internet the way more well-heeled people do. They can stream media, read ebooks, store music in the cloud, access the internet - it's hard to even find a decent netbook at $200, or at least one that performs well at all these tasks.

It could be something that allows the lower income into the web today, instead of the web as it was 5-10 years ago.

Re:50,000 a day?

[nedlohs]

Because most people have a job. And $200 is not bank breaking for a lot of people. And because they don't give a shit about a walled garden.

Re:50,000 a day?

[jedidiah]

That walled garden escalates the total cost of ownership for the thing. It increases what you would otherwise pay for the same content.

The initial $200 may not "break the bank", but the content acquisition model will make things more expensive forever after.

That said: $200 is certainly a better teaser price point than $600.

Re:50,000 a day?

[Oxford_Comma_Lover]

Yes, but they are not the early adopters. In this economy, a lot of people don't have a spare $200 to spend on a shiny new toy.

Re:50,000 a day?

[tripleevenfall]

Apple's model also continually farms cash via content acquisition.

Re:50,000 a day?

[SJHillman]

I got a Nook Color a few months back, very similar specs to the Kindle Fire. In my case, I needed an easy way to do light web browsing, email and a few other very basic things when traveling. I opted for the $200 Nook Color to replace my aging laptop. It's not always a case of getting an additional device... I would have gotten a laptop or tablet anyway and this fit my needs just as well (better in some cases thanks to the small screen) as a laptop.

Re:50,000 a day?

[Anonymous Coward]

I just pre-ordered one. I expect my uses of this device to be 1) Web browsing, 2) Netflix, 3) e-book reading -at a distant third- 4) 99cent games -even more distant fourth-. Based on this I'm not really worried about the 'walled garden' too much. I'm sure I'll end up spending enough for Amazon to make up whatever 'subsidy' they're applying to the list price, but I won't go broke doing it.

Re:50,000 a day?

[TheSunborn]

What make you think it will be stuck in a walled garden? Does Amazon prevent me from installing my own Android software on it?

Re:50,000 a day?

[Anonymous Coward]

Sure, it increases TCO, but the marketplace doesn't encourage consumers to look at that factor -- it's all about the initial price point. Besides, people are fairly used to greedrape from buying ringtones and games and such on their cell phones. I "bought" (rented) Gauntlet on my cell phone about six years ago, and then I was PISSED about four years ago when Verizon refused to transfer the game to my new handset. It made me think twice about buying DRM'd products in the future, let me tell you.

Re:50,000 a day?

[tripleevenfall]

I was debating getting a new laptop to replace my aging desktop, but I pre-ordered one of these instead.

For the larger tasks like writing emails or for mass storage, I'll just keep my desktop plugged in somewhere in the house but powered down. For email, media, and day to day web surfing I'll use the Fire.

I am wondering how often I will end up booting the old desktop PC...

Re:50,000 a day?

[Anonymous Coward]

Only people who call this a "Great Depression" are 24-hour new talking heads and the mindless zombies not capable of independent thought. Wake me up when there is 25%+ unemployment and breadlines.

Re:50,000 a day?

[vlm]

If there's a great depression going on throughout the world, where the hell are people finding the scratch to piss away on electronic devices that will be stuck in a walled garden and bricked in less than a decade?

I ran the numbers, and if those are US only, that means perhaps the top 0.013% of the population is doing OK... Or if world wide numbers, the top 0.00007% of the population is doing OK.

Re:50,000 a day?

[tripleevenfall]

To be fair, if you look at U-6 which is a better measure of true employment misery, we're above 16%

Re:50,000 a day?

[jedidiah]

So you are cheering for the corporation that is bending you over? Great...

They call that Helsinki Syndrome oddly enough.

Re:50,000 a day?

[AdamJS]

Because it's an iPad in their eyes for cheap. And a lot of them are probably doing it on credit/borrowed money anyways,

Re:50,000 a day?

[Anonymous Coward]

Its far less walled than Apple's stack. On the iPad, you have to use iTunes to install everything, and the EULAs are terribly restrictive. Amazon gives you an old fashioned MP3 for music, and most of its other policies are equally less restrictive. They're definitely the lesser evil in today's content ecosystem.

Re:50,000 a day?

[Jason Levine]

Two questions:

1) Where did they say that the Amazon Fire would only operate within a walled garden? Sure, they're tying it into the Amazon Video, Music, Cloud Storage, etc offerings, but they are have a web browser in it as well. You can go to google.com or any other website that you want to go to and Amazon won't stop you.

2) "Bricked in less than a decade"? Let's start with the second half of that statement. What computing device sold today is seriously purchased with the intent of it being completely usable (and not hopelessly obsolete) in 10 years? If you built a computer in 2001, installed Windows XP (just released in October 2001) on it and gave it the leading web browser of the time (IE6), would you complain that many websites today didn't work right and thus your investment 10 years ago was worthless?

Now for the first half of the statement. Where have you heard that Amazon was going to have the capability to brick these tablets? Perhaps, if something happened to the Amazon.com company, you would be locked out of their music and movie offerings, but that wouldn't stop you from using the tablet to browse the Internet. By default, the Fire uses Amazon's cloud servers to connect but you can switch to "off-cloud mode" and bypass their servers. (So if they shut down those servers, it wouldn't render your tablet useless.)

Re:50,000 a day?

[futuresheep]

The intent of this device is to get you to buy and use Amazon products and services. So unless Amazon buys Netflix, I'd be stunned to see them allow the installation of the Netflix application on their devices.

Re:50,000 a day?

[Anonymous Coward]

In this economy, a lo

I guess this retarded phrase replaced "Think about the children!" and "Terrorist alert level".

Here's news for you. 10% unemployment means 90% of people that want a job, have a job. And if they want to spend money, they spend money.

Re:50,000 a day?

[tripleevenfall]

I wasn't applauding it, I was just pointing out that both platforms have the same shortcoming.

And it's Stockholm Syndrome... I'm not sure what Helsinki syndrome would be... an insatiable desire for cabbage rolls and pea soup? :)

Re:50,000 a day?

[Anonymous Coward]

I think this is exactly why they are selling well, and exactly why most people will end up disappointed. it is being marketed as the 'iPad killer', being hyped to anyone who can read or hear as the thing that will take the 'iPad crown'.

The problem is, it ISN'T an iPad. I don't even like the iPad, but I will at least acknowledge it has a much faster processor, much better screen, and you can actually get seriously useful apps to run on it. Most folks are going to go into buying the Kindle Fire thinking it does the same thing, and it doesn't. Yes, it runs Android, and they will think they can get any Android app for it, but Amazon has already announced it will only be able to run approved apps from their own app store. I haven't seen anything on disallowing side-loading yet, but I suspect they have, if you can only get things from them. This means (once again) rooting your device to do what you want with it, which most won't do. I have no doubt they are selling a great many of these 'iPad Killers' because people think they ARE getting an iPad, or at least a fully functional Android tablet, when they aren't. This thing is a Nook Color with a nice music store.

Re:50,000 a day?

[ArhcAngel]

Probably...yes...realistically...Someone will root the device before the end of the month and CyanogenMod (LOL my auto-correct wants Carcinogenicity) will be ported to it days later. But yes Amazon would love to be able to prevent you from rolling your own since they are selling the Fire at a loss. They know the vast majority will not bother.

Amazon knows they need to get ahead of this iPod as media device trend and they also know they are WAY behind with little hope of catching up without making a concession or two in the short term.

Re:50,000 a day?

[tripleevenfall]

There are impacts to even those of us who are working, such as inflation. Inflation is being under-reported, and it is being hidden in the government's official numbers by the horrendous housing market.

Not only is the price of everything at the grocery store rising, you go to the bank and they're slapping new fees on everywhere, state and local governments are raising fees and taxes... there is nothing that isn't becoming a lot less affordable, it would seem, except gasoline and that's a symptom of the economy.

I agree that "In this economy" is a dumb phrase and defeatist thinking, but his point is a salient one.

Re:50,000 a day?

[Anonymous Coward]

They call that Helsinki Syndrome oddly enough.

Do you ever feel pathetic for parroting the same garbage as everyone else on the internet in an effort to sound cool?

You should - it's pathetic.

Re:50,000 a day?

[Mordok-DestroyerOfWo]

And...in all fairness, most people that I know that are on unemployment can scratch and save for a few months to be able to afford one. If they can afford iPhones and cable television an extra $200 isn't much.

Re:50,000 a day?

[brainzach]

Some people see a walled garden as a benefit because it offers better quality control and a more streamlined user experience.

I really don't see the rational of paying more for the same content, unless you are talking about pirated content.

If Amazon is able to get a large market power with the Kindle, it can actually lower the prices individuals pay for content. Amazon would have more leverage in negotiating with content providers and have an incentive to have prices low to compete with Apple.

Re:50,000 a day?

[Mordok-DestroyerOfWo]

I'm reasonably sure that within a few weeks there will be a version of Cyanogen that will run on it just fine. For the technically savvy it will be a cinch to install and get a vanilla Android device. Whether or not it's against the TOS is another question, but personally, I've never cared about those anyway.

Re:50,000 a day?

[Anonymous Coward]

I was debating getting a new laptop to replace my aging desktop, but I pre-ordered one of these instead.

FOOL. You should have bought a netbook ($200 CDN) or cheap laptop ( $349 CDN) instead. Better utility and value for the money. .

Re:50,000 a day?

[MobileTatsu-NJG]

You want people pissing away money like this during a [dep/rec]ession.

Re:50,000 a day?

[phik]

Imagine you're poor. Not homeless-poor ...but lower class. You have one laptop to share for your family and a slow wifi connection. This kindle is a perfect device. It isn't cheap (for the hypothetical you) but it's not back-breaking by any means. Buying another laptop is out of the question, and you don't know how to buy a used latop and reformat the harddrive. So you get the kindle fire: it means twice as many people in the home get online. You aren't thinking about walled gardens, you're just happy your kid can do homework while you can check facebook. It may not be the best or smartest decision, but that isn't the point. It's the way a lot of people live... and it's part of the reason why this will sell like crazy.

Re:50,000 a day?

[Anonymous Coward]

Helsinki Syndrome is what they erroneously call it in "Die Hard".

Re:50,000 a day?

[Anonymous Coward]

LOL its almost like slashdot is stuck in some alternate universe. Stop bitching about walled garden already. Either you pay on the device or you pay on the content - the company has to make money (and I dont see any open source tablets worth even thinking about) - you cant have both a cheap device and an open device (else you will end up with 'open' hardware crap like Neuros OSD - a waste of money).

This is the US - and it is a market based system. So unless you are ready to code everyday for $10/hr - dont make greed sound so very bad.

Re:50,000 a day?

[Lumpy]

"access the internet " BZZZT! Only from a Wifi Connection. they DISABLED web browsing from the 3G connection.

Re:50,000 a day?

[Anonymous Coward]

Jedidiah is a pretty well-known idiot around these parts. He's obsessed with Apple and scours the comments of every story for even a stray mention of his corporate nemesis.

Re:50,000 a day?

[Anonymous Coward]

whatever. i make $200 before lunch (and my day starts at 10)

Re:50,000 a day?

[Lumpy]

"On the iPad, you have to use iTunes to install everything,"

are you stupid? have you ever touched an iPad or iPhone?

I dont use itunes at all except to back up the device once in a while. I install EVERYTHING from the apps store ON the device.

Got some other crap you made up about the iPad?

Re:50,000 a day?

[Penguinisto]

That walled garden escalates the total cost of ownership for the thing. It increases what you would otherwise pay for the same content.

You're talking about a demographic that rents-to-own furniture, takes payday loans, and eats fast food.

Seriously.

Re:50,000 a day?

[fusiongyro]

"there is nothing that isn't becoming a lot less affordable"... except apparently excellent, inexpensive, computer-replacing tablets. Which is exactly tripleevenfall's point. It's three times easier to save up $200 for a Kindle Fire than a $600 laptop.

Re:50,000 a day?

[denis-The-menace]

If it has a IMEI number, this will be hacked within months.

Re:50,000 a day?

[Lumpy]

Yes, yes they do.

Re:50,000 a day?

[bws111]

Kind of hard to hack something that doesn't exist. There is no 3G support at all in the device.

Re:50,000 a day?

[jgagnon]

And I'm equally sure that Amazon will crush/disable any device that uses the connection for anything other than exchanges with their sites. They use AT&T's network and I'm sure they have plenty of tools in place to help Amazon out with that endeavor.

Re:50,000 a day?

[Anonymous Coward]

You're mixing up devices. The Kindle Fire is WiFi only. It's the Kindle Touch 3G that has more limited browsing than the Kindle Keyboard 3G.

Re:50,000 a day?

[Yvan256]

What do you mean by "Amazon gives you an old fashioned MP3 for music"? Do you think you can only get music from the iTunes Store? All the iPods, iPhones and iPads as well as iTunes have always been able to playback MP3 files gotten from various non-iTunes sources. You can even re-encode tracks into MP3 if you so desire. The default format for audio files is AAC because it's better per bitrate but nothing prevents you from making MP3 or WAV the default file format.

Re:50,000 a day?

[Lumpy]

"Wake me up when there is 25%+ unemployment and breadlines."

You are a head in the sand idiot, no wait. that is a insult to idiots, you are simply a dip-shit.

Unemployment figure is ONLY those currently receiving unemployment insurance. everyone else is not counted, so if you ran out your unemployment you are no longer counted.

http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/learn-how-to-invest/The-real-unemployment-rate.aspx
http://www.dailyfinance.com/2010/07/16/what-is-the-real-unemployment-rate/
http://www.qualityinfo.org/olmisj/ArticleReader?itemid=00000486

I can post about 800 more links to the real numbers, but I assume you can use google instead of only getting your news from Fox News.

As for bread lines.... They exist you idiot, maybe if you were not running around in your Saab with blinders on you would see them. Millions use Food trucks and food aid every week to get food for their families. Most run out of food before they run out of people standing in line. They do this at low income areas not next to your Starbucks where you get your half Decaf latte every morning. It's also called "food stamps" but you seem to be far too uneducated to know what that is. No it's not used for mailing food. Food stamp use is at record high levels, also many families in states that do not have food stamps use Food aid trucks.

http://www.loveinctricities.org/gleanersfoodtruckinformation

Oh and fucking asshole republicans that hate the poor are trying like hell to cut it....

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/05/23/politics/main20065537.shtml

Come on back when you get some real education and experience as to what is happening in your country and your city. next time let's talk about how the cost of living has risen by 15-20% for everyone over the past 4 years but the feds will not talk about.... Bread went from $0.99 a loaf to $1.25 a loaf, Milk up almost 55%, Meat up 35%, etc... Or are you claiming that is not happening either?

Re:50,000 a day?

[RoverDaddy]

It's already been stated that Kindle Fire will have access to apps from Pandora, Twitter, Facebook, and Netflix. If they go back on this then I'm sure many people will be disappointed.

Re:50,000 a day?

[DogDude]

Or, you could go get a PC at a thrift store that can do infinitely more than these gadgets for $10.

Re:50,000 a day?

[Nadaka]

You want people pissing money away on locally produced products, not imported crap. Locally produced products improve the local economy, imports do not.

Re:50,000 a day?

[Anonymous Coward]

Apple and Amazon are American companies. Yes, this is actually okay even though some of the money also goes to China.

Re:50,000 a day?

[JazzLad]

The report on NPR (no link, sorry, Google it) said that it would have Netflix support. I found it odd myself as Amazon has their own video service, but it is being reported there.

Re:50,000 a day?

[cayenne8]

. In this economy, a lot of people don't have a spare $200 to spend on a shiny new toy.

If you can't afford a mere $200 for a computer like product...then you definitely have better things to do with your life, like study and look for a better JOB.

If you're a broke college student, this doesn't apply...but, if you're a grown adult, still wearing a nametag and asking "if you want fries with that"...you seriously have made some vocational errors. By this time in life, you should have enough money put back for the lean times, and maybe a little for a cheap toy like this from time to time....if not, then you seriously need to examine your life up till now, and try to get on a plan to do something about it.

I mean, hell....you can drink $200 in a bar one night pretty easily....$200 in this day in time, is not a lot of money...it doesn't go as far as it used to in the old days...

Re:50,000 a day?

[Pieroxy]

They are most certainly not selling the fire at a loss. Archos have sold such tablets for years at around the same pricepoint, and believe me, they're making money out of them.

cnet might disagree with all their theoretical computations of course. But who cares?

Re:50,000 a day?

[Nadaka]

Being "American companies" doesn't help that much. Apple has very few employees in the US, and very little of its income gets reinvested here to invigorate the economy.

Re:50,000 a day?

[Anonymous Coward]

Only morans and fat cats bank at banks. Smart guys (./ users) use credit unions. Just sayin'.

Re:50,000 a day?

[cayenne8]

Not only is the price of everything at the grocery store rising, you go to the bank and they're slapping new fees on everywhere

Well, time to do some life changes...to combat this, and it isn't that hard.

1. If you bank is raising fees for things like debit card usage....try shopping for a new bank (not all of them are doing this), and/or stop using debit cards. Carry cash, use a check, or do a credit card but ONLY charge enough that you can pay off in full each month.

2. Food...well, stop eating out so often. Stop buying prepackaged, frozen or highly processed foods in the grocery store. Do something like I do weekly, look at the grocery store fliers that come out on like Wed or Thurs...see what is on sale, and base your menus around that!! Shop only on the outside of the grocery stores (veggies/fruit, meats, dairy, etc). Plan and COOK your own food. With planning, it isn't that bad, can be cheaper per meal, and definitely more healthy. I like to pick out Sunday as a 'cook day'...I cook 3-4 main courses and sides...maybe even just grill a few things like chicken, etc....and can use that during the week for quick meals (heat, chop and wrap in pita bread with a quick yogurt sauce)..so that you don't get tired eating the same thing all week long.

And for God's sake...get over not eating leftovers...hell, some things actually get better with age in the fridge (spag sauce for instance).

Anyway, it isn't that hard to get around these things, if you're just not too lazy to move money around and look for bargains, and be a bit more domestic on the weekends.

Re:50,000 a day?

[Anonymous Coward]

Under reported? Inflation is virtually non-existent at the moment, and has been for the last few years. Commodity prices are flux but are going down as often as they go up. Wages are stagnant. Luxury goods are going down in price. While rent is going up (which actually raises the CPI), the price of buying a home has been cut by 2/3 over the last four years.

I don't disagree that a large number of employed people are having a hard time justifying spending on luxury goods, but this has to do with a lack of availability of credit - due to declining home values - combined with a lack of growth in wages. Both are problems related to deflation, not inflation.

Re:50,000 a day?

[Anonymous Coward]

Every $200 (US) netbook I've looked has been disappointing. Usually a 1-core 1GHz CPU. Windows Starter (If I'm going to run Windows I want the real deal). Laptops don't get decent until you reach $400. I also consider the smaller size and weight of a tablet to be an important feature. Netbooks are simultaneously too big or too small depending on what I want to do at the time.

Re:50,000 a day?

[demonbug]

You want people pissing away money like this during a [dep/rec]ession.

Not really. According to several sources, Amazon is taking a loss on these. They are assembled in China from parts made in China. Buying one, you are just transferring your money to China. Since this is Amazon we're talking about, your purchase won't even be generating any tax revenue.

Though in general what you say is true - during a recession you want to encourage the people that have money to spend some of it - this appears to me to be an extraordinarily bad place to be doing that. Yes, eventually Amazon hopes to be making money from the media you purchase for the device (and that likely would be a good place to put money in terms of fighting the recession), but if you are looking to help kick start the economy this is probably about the last device you would want to buy.

Of course, if you spend the extra on an iPad instead then Apple will just sit on the excess profit and it won't be all that helpful to the wider economy either - but at least you'd be contributing to the tax base.

Re:50,000 a day?

[tlhIngan]

It's already been stated that Kindle Fire will have access to apps from Pandora, Twitter, Facebook, and Netflix. If they go back on this then I'm sure many people will be disappointed.

Easy - it'll have all access to apps that the Amazon App Store has. The fire's a nice device, but it's so tied to Amazon that outside of the US, it's useless - you can't buy music or apps unless you have a US credit card.

As for hacking it - has anyone hacked the Playbook yet? They're the same internally after all..

Re:50,000 a day?

[cornface]

If only your tears were nutritious. No one would go hungry again.

Re:50,000 a day?

[Gilmoure]

Yeah, but if you get one of those laptops that doesn't have the screen attached and is shaped like a big box, you can run 4 monitors, edit video, render 3-D animation and host 200 people at a time as a web server? Why would you want a tablet that does a lot less?

Re:50,000 a day?

[cayenne8]

I'm reasonably sure that within a few weeks there will be a version of Cyanogen that will run on it just fine. For the technically savvy it will be a cinch to install and get a vanilla Android device.

I'd originally thought this too...however, this Kindle Fire doesn't have the microSD card capability that the nook color does.

So, you can't boot from external media, that will make it quite tough to 'hack' into....that and the Fire only has like 8GB of internal memory...which is gonna get small quickly without external memory available (hence, their plan to have you keep most everything you want for content on the Amazon Cloud).

I'm definitely on a wait and see on the Fire to see if anything non-Amazon can be done with it.

In the meantime...nook colors can be had used on craigslist and ebay for about $150 plus shipping...easy and well documented to transform into a full blow android tablet with cyanogenmod7.

Re:50,000 a day?

[COMON$]

Ha I make 80K a year and I think this fits perfectly into my budget. iPad for $500+ for a casual browsing computer...while cool I cant bring myself to do it.

Re:50,000 a day?

[Anonymous Coward]

In the US, the unemployment rate is just under 10%, with the long term unemployment rate closer to 18%. That still leaves more than 80% of the working population with a job.

The Occupy Wall Street jerks all have their iPads, iPhones and Androids with them. So much for greed.

Re:50,000 a day?

[COMON$]

I have even money that says I am still using my fire in a decade (as long as it is still working).

Re:50,000 a day?

[COMON$]

This is America Dammit, the land of $500 dollar purses to carry food stamps.

Re:50,000 a day?

[Joce640k]

...except gasoline.

...and that's subsidized, i.e. you're paying for it somewhere else and they use your money to keep the price down.

Re:50,000 a day?

[Joce640k]

Summed up: Learn to cook.

I don't want to get all Jamie Oliver on people but honestly, he's onto something. Cooking works, it's easy, it's fun and the food you can make is *way* better then junk food.

America could probably fix its economy and waistline problem just by doing this.

Re:50,000 a day?

[jrbrtsn]

I was recently disappointed to discover that, in order to download music which you have purchased from Amazon, you must use Amazon's proprietary downloading software *and* agree to the 'Terms of Use' associated with said software. After hunting around the website for about 10 minutes I finally found contact information for sales support, and asked for a refund.

Re:50,000 a day?

[fyngyrz]

That PC won't fit in a pocket. We've got a Kindle Fire on order. To go with our regular Kindle, iPad, and other widgets. They're huge fun, I expect the Fire will be as well. Some things it does is play Amazon's video and work with their cloud player.

Personally, I'll still prefer my iPad, I think, but the lady of the house uses a lot of Amazon services, so it'll likely be a good fit.

Re:50,000 a day?

[PraiseBob]

You seem to be implying that Kindle and iPad owners are in the poorest segment of society. This is simply not true.

Re:50,000 a day?

[Mordok-DestroyerOfWo]

I was quite surprised how capable the Nook Color is. I wasn't expecting much, but I picked one up for my mom for her birthday and tabletified it. It certainly isn't an iPad and nobody would mistake it for one. But, for casual web browsing and Netflix it more than does the job.

Re:50,000 a day?

[Fwipp]

I mean, hell....you can drink $200 in a bar one night pretty easily....$200 in this day in time, is not a lot of money...it doesn't go as far as it used to in the old days...

Guh... maybe if I'm ordering $40 beers.

Re:50,000 a day?

[bdenton42]

$200 *net* in ~2 hours? With that kind of dough I wouldn't be looking at a Fire.

Re:50,000 a day?

[Oxford_Comma_Lover]

True--but it is a lot for something whose intrinsic entertainment value is unproven, unlike the television. People will sometimes pay for cable TV and let their house fall apart because they get more enjoyment out of their TV.

Re:50,000 a day?

[cayenne8]

With respect to the CBS article you posted, bashing Republican cost cutting measures:

The 2012 budget proposal for food and farm programs also includes a decrease of almost $457 million, or 31 percent, from an international food assistance program

While sad, I don't have a problem with this. Sure, in times of plenty, nothing wrong with the US helping out other countries...but when times are tough, it IS the duty of our government to try to look out for its own citizens first. And that money could go to our own domestic issues like food for the poor. I don't see a problem with this at all.

Republicans who wrote the bill said the cuts in domestic food programs are taken from excess dollars in those accounts, and participants won't see a decrease in services.

Hey, if they've cutting waste...and all, I've no problem for that. It always sounds bad when you just say "oh no, they're cutting $$ for the poor programs....if they're cutting waste, duplications, red tape costs and other wasted overhead (not to mention fraud)...when what's the problem there? The article says they always run these programs over the past years with reserve funds left over.

Perhaps, rather than fund these things all at once at the beginning of the year...why not fun them quarterly, that way you could see more what the cost trends are for that year, and adjust the budget accordingly?

Of course there are 2x sides to every argument, but from the link you posted, these cuts don't seem like a bad idea?

Re:50,000 a day?

[Oxford_Comma_Lover]

Lots of people with jobs are still in financial difficulties. Many of them also help other people who are in financial difficulties. One person can have a great job and still be burning through savings trying to save a family member from losing his or her house.

Re:50,000 a day?

[Penguinisto]

Given the general tone of the thread (that it's affordable for the poorer folk), it's not an implication. ;)

Re:50,000 a day?

[cayenne8]

Guh... maybe if I'm ordering $40 beers.

Well, good scotch...along with beer and/or some shooters. Also, buying a friend or a girl some drinks too...pretty easy to do if you're not drinking well brands....even in New Orleans where it is cheap, you can easily piss away $200 on a bar tab, with a good tip included.

Whew..but be careful on that drive home....*burp*

Re:50,000 a day?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, the Digital Credit Union available to FSF members!

Re:50,000 a day?

[denis-The-menace]

Hence the 'If".

Nobody has cracked one open.
If the chip is there, Amazon might have it just turned off.
Time will tell.

Re:50,000 a day?

[zero0ne]

Or I could spend that hour it takes to prep, cook, serve, and clean doing something useful.

If I make 15/hr, working for an hour then going to eat somewhere like subway seems like the winner?

Re:50,000 a day?

[yurtinus]

Probably for the same reason he doesn't drive an RV to work...

Re:50,000 a day?

[yurtinus]

I'm very interested to see what the CyanogenMod guys are able to do with this device, but will also hold off on purchasing (or recommending for somebody that wants to root it) until they have a procedure for rooting. The Fire doesn't seem to have a microSD slot - I'm not expecting it to be as easy to crack as other devices on the market.

Re:50,000 a day?

[galanom]

If there's a great depression going on throughout the world, where the hell are people finding the scratch to piss away on electronic devices that will be stuck in a walled garden and bricked in less than a decade?

DECADE? You're joking right??? This will be outdated in a couple of years maximum! And I am being optimist!

Re:50,000 a day?

[Gilmoure]

Yeah, but with an RV, you can carry along a home theater set up, a bbq smoker, a mobile wood fired pizza oven, etc. Think how many times you were out at the mall or at work or something and really wanted a good pice of pizza? As long as you have all your stuff with you, you'll never be without all your stuff! And besides, even if the laptop computers without the screens that are too heavy to hold on your lap are a bit to heavy to hold on your lap, well, if you never leave your mom's basement, you don't have to worry about that because you probably have your stuff set up on an old door propped up on a busted washing machine down there anyways!

Re:50,000 a day?

[edumacator]

You need to practice.

Re:50,000 a day?

[Anonymous Coward]

Apple has a measly 35,000 employees. Their products are sold through retail channels such as Best Buy and Target. Some of the money goes to China, a fair (if not majority) chunk of it stays right in the States and circulates.

Still not a bad thing, sorry.

Re:50,000 a day?

[Cro Magnon]

When I find a locally produced Kindle/Ipad/whatever, I'll buy it. Until then I'll buy what exists (as long as my job/money still exists).

Re:50,000 a day?

[Rockoon]

It seems to me that the few iPad owners that I know of where I work (who all also have iPhones) are in the most debt. They arent low-income, but are well into negative net worth. Completely upside down.

They sure do look cool with their iStuff tho.

Re:50,000 a day?

[shutdown -p now]

You don't need their downloader. The way it works today is this: when you buy a track from Amazon MP3, it's automatically put into your "cloud storage". When you go there, you mark the files you want to download with checkboxes, and there's a "Download" button on the toolbar. It suggests that you install their downloader, like so:

Would you like to install the Amazon MP3 Downloader to make this download easier? Once installed, the Amazon MP3 Downloader will automatically add this and all your future downloads to iTunes or Windows Media Player.

[ ] Don't ask me again.
YES No, thanks

If you click "No, thanks", you'll have a plain MP3 download.

What it doesn't let you do, is download several tracks at a time without using their downloader software. You can only download them one by one.

Re:50,000 a day?

[rwa2]

I'm just immensely happy that people's priorities have changed so much. 10 years ago when I was a poor student (OK, maybe a bit more like 20) you'd be ridiculed for carrying around an electronic device with you everywhere. And a $200 graphing calculator would pretty much be your most prized possession.

Nowadays you can't pry just about anyone off their electronic devices, even if they're driving, dining, or in bed with someone. Nerdwin!!!1!

Re:50,000 a day?

[MikeBabcock]

There's no walled garden, it has full access to the Android Market. It may even allow unsigned app installations (we don't know yet).

Why exactly are you spreading FUD?

Re:50,000 a day?

[MobileTatsu-NJG]

No, the last device you'd want to buy is a Chinese knock-off of an iPad that you ordered from an on-line Chinese store. Here you've got an American company investing in selling American content in America.

Re:50,000 a day?

[maxwell demon]

There are impacts to even those of us who are working, such as inflation.

And what is the most reasonable thing to do if you fear inflation? Well, get rid of your money before it loses its value.

Re:50,000 a day?

[Tarsir]

In one hour I can make 2 dishes which portion out to 6 meals each. That means one hour of work will net me 12 meals which are healthier and cheaper than going to Subway.

Re:50,000 a day?

[bdenton42]

Well, you can install everything except iOS updates (coming soon), and large files while on 3G.

So in reality you can't throw itunes away just yet.

Re:50,000 a day?

[froggymana]

$200 *net* in ~2 hours? With that kind of dough I wouldn't be looking at a Fire.

Maybe he just eats lunch very late in the day?

Re:50,000 a day?

[jedidiah]

Ok, I got the right general part of the world. Clearly I was thinking of something else.

Re:50,000 a day?

[jedidiah]

There's a wide range between the rent-to-own crowd and those that spend other people's money like there's no tomorrow.

I think the conspicuous consumer types tend to not be aware of this.

Re:50,000 a day?

[reboot246]

If inflation is virtually nonexistent, then explain why things cost more every time I go shopping. Groceries, clothes, utilities, etc. are all up over last month and the month before . . .

Re:50,000 a day?

[Kittenman]

Or I could spend that hour it takes to prep, cook, serve, and clean doing something useful.

Pal, taking an hour to prep, cook, serve, clean is doing something useful. You take showers? You brush and floss? Same thing.

Re:50,000 a day?

[sonicmerlin]

Well... even on slashdot I see people complain about a phone being $100 more or less than another phone while happily handing their carrier thousands of dollars over their 2 year contract's life.

Re:50,000 a day?

[angus77]

If I drank $10 worth of alcohol...I probably wouldn't remember having done it.

Re:50,000 a day?

[tehcyder]

In this economy, a lo

I guess this retarded phrase replaced "Think about the children!" and "Terrorist alert level".

Here's news for you. 10% unemployment means 90% of people that want a job, have a job. And if they want to spend money, they spend money.

Not really, when there's high unemployment the sensible thing is to save as much as you can for when it's your turn, not carry on renewing your toy collection.

The problem with a lot of people who read slashdot is they think they're immune to any economic downturn because they're geniuses at their job, got top marks at school, etc.

If you're not independently wealthy, unemployment has an effect on you.

Re:50,000 a day?

[Anonymous Coward]

How about you do us all a favour and kill yourself.?

Re:50,000 a day?

[tehcyder]

Inflation is virtually non-existent at the moment, and has been for the last few years.

No, everyday items like food and energy supplies are going up all the time. Well, they are in the UK, maybe the US is immune to economic reality?

Re:50,000 a day?

[tehcyder]

There are impacts to even those of us who are working, such as inflation.

And what is the most reasonable thing to do if you fear inflation? Well, get rid of your money before it loses its value.

That is nonsense, so I hope you were joking. You're still better off having a slight decrease in the value of your money than just tipping it down the drain. There's no point a new purchase now unless you really want or need it; whatever inflation does, it's nothing compared to the depreciation of consumer electrical goods.

Re:50,000 a day?

[tehcyder]

True--but it is a lot for something whose intrinsic entertainment value is unproven, unlike the television.

Books have proven intrinsic entertainment value. Music has proven intrinsic entertainment value. The internet has proven intrinsic entertainment value. For $200 it's not that much of a gamble.

Re:50,000 a day?

[tehcyder]

If you can't afford a mere $200 for a computer like product...then you definitely have better things to do with your life, like study and look for a better JOB.

Yes, because all this talk about unemployment is just communist propaganda. In what is actually a perfectly working free market economy, there is no such thing. The Invisible Hand sorts out everything perfectly, and if you choose not to have a job that's just an exercise of your total freedom.

I mean, hell....you can drink $200 in a bar one night pretty easily..

Just because you can, doesn't mean everyone else can. A multi-millionaire can spend $1000 on a meal, the person cleaning the dishes in the restaurant's kitchen can't.

Re:50,000 a day?

[tehcyder]

Ha I make 80K a year and I think this fits perfectly into my budget. iPad for $500+ for a casual browsing computer...while cool I cant bring myself to do it.

An extra $300 over a couple of years is a deal breaker for someone earning 80K a year?

You must have pretty expensive habits.

Re:50,000 a day?

[tehcyder]

Jedidiah is a pretty well-known idiot around these parts. He's obsessed with Apple and scours the comments of every story for even a stray mention of his corporate nemesis.

You say that like it's a bad thing.

Re:50,000 a day?

[tehcyder]

Every $200 (US) netbook I've looked has been disappointing. Usually a 1-core 1GHz CPU. Windows Starter (If I'm going to run Windows I want the real deal). Laptops don't get decent until you reach $400. I also consider the smaller size and weight of a tablet to be an important feature. Netbooks are simultaneously too big or too small depending on what I want to do at the time.

You don't need an eight core 3 GHz processor with 16GB of RAM and a graphics card that costs $1600 just to surf the web,send emails, access facebook and twitter, and use a word processor or iTunes.

Also, why would you expect the most expensive version of Windows on a $200 machine for free? If you're that bothered about the limitations of Windows Starter, just put Linux on it.

Re:50,000 a day?

[tehcyder]

You need iTunes to register/set up an iPhone in the first place, and if you want to transfer music from your local computer you have to use iTunes as far as I am aware. This is in the UK, maybe it's different elsewhere, but I doubt it.

Obviously you install apps from the app store, I don't think this is what the GP was talking about.

This information has been obtained from watching/helping my wife trying to set up her new iPhone last night, and yes I did touch the fucking over-priced piece of shiny shit.

Re:50,000 a day?

[tehcyder]

$200 *net* in ~2 hours? With that kind of dough I wouldn't be looking at a Fire.

And I wouldn't be hanging around posting made up shit as an AC on slashdot, I'd be out jumpstarting the hookers-and-cocaine elements of the economyy. Probably.

Re:50,000 a day?

[cayenne8]

Just because you can, doesn't mean everyone else can. A multi-millionaire can spend $1000 on a meal, the person cleaning the dishes in the restaurant's kitchen can't.

Well, not everyone is entitled to luxuries...which a kindle certainly would be....

If $200 is too much for your discrecionary spending...then don't even think of trying to buy one, till you can figure a way to make more money and afford one.

I'm certainly NOT rich by a long stretch...but $200 can easily be spared by me at any time. And I'm definitely not in the minority here in the US....just middle to upper middle class.

Re:50,000 a day?

[Joce640k]

Or I could spend that hour it takes to prep, cook, serve, and clean doing something useful.

LIke what? Surfing the web or watching TV?

If I make 15/hr, working for an hour then going to eat somewhere like subway seems like the winner?

You spend every waking moment working?

Re:50,000 a day?

[Joce640k]

In one hour I can make 2 dishes which portion out to 6 meals each. That means one hour of work will net me 12 meals which are healthier and cheaper than going to Subway.

Even then a lot of the time is just waiting. eg. Making a pizza is five minutes work, tops. The other 20 is waiting for it to cook. You can be reading slashdot or whatever while you wait.

Re:50,000 a day?

[Joce640k]

Pal, taking an hour to prep, cook, serve, clean is doing something useful.

Not to mention that you'll feel physically better if you eat proper food instead of junk. You'll sleep better and be more productive in your waking hours.

Re:50,000 a day?

[scot4875]

Shop only on the outside of the grocery stores (veggies/fruit, meats, dairy, etc). Plan and COOK your own food.

Careful there -- you're starting to sound like one of those liberal health food nuts.

--Jeremy

Re:50,000 a day?

[scot4875]

What do you mean by "Amazon gives you an old fashioned MP3 for music"?

He means that you get an MP3 when you download a music file. There's no secret meaning in those words.

You can even re-encode tracks into MP3 if you so desire.

Ahh yes, the joys of re-encoding one lossy format into another. So now you get the artifact characteristics from BOTH encoders! What's not to love?

--Jeremy

Re:50,000 a day?

[jp10558]

You know, I am getting into cooking, but there is an issue - I'm not at all convinced any of the interesting things to cook are actually healthier and cheaper than packaged food.

To clarify that statement, pretty much anything cheap, except perhaps lettuce, isn't amazingly good for you that I can tell. Spaghetti as a point is a lot of carbs for instance...

Hamburger / hotdogs etc - not great for you.

Bread, not amazing for you.

The healthy (ish) stuff tends to be a lot more expensive, i.e. frozen fruit for smoothies, or even stir fry stuff - the meat alone is kind of expensive...

Maybe it's what I cook, but if I set out to make Lasagna say (going for cheaper than buying here), one tray ends up costing me as much as buying it at, say, Pizza Hut, but I get to spend a day putting it together. Yay! Actually, I usually make 2 trays, but it costs me roughly $60 and that's shopping at Sams club for stuff...

Another thing is most of the current popular recipe books all like to have "fancy" ingrediants like Goji Berries (WTH? totally waste of money and unnecessary) or other strange things - as I think much of cooking is now by foodies or the like. I'm very glad to have my mothers and grandmothers cookbooks that were about putting food together.

I will say that I think cooking is right up there with exercise - - you're asking people to totally change their daily habits. This is a big deal - spending 2 hours after work to cook so you eat at 7:30PM instead of at 5:30 when you get home with takeout. Or spending all Sunday to pre-make meals for the week. This is a big time investment, so it's really not necessarily that easy, and this assumes you're working one job so have all Sunday or whatever to do the cooking - and that you don't want to have plans on the weekend that don't involve shopping and then cooking.

Yes, shop on Saturday if you'd checking the circulars, going to buy the on sale items etc and spend much of a day doing so, especially if you're in a more rural area where driving time to big stores with non crazy prices is on average an hour one way.

Re:50,000 a day?

[fusiongyro]

I'm with you. Of course, there are tradeoffs I wish hadn't been made, but overall, as far as possible futures to live in from 10 years ago, this one is pretty far from the worst. And it happens to be the one we're stuck with. So let's enjoy it.

Re:50,000 a day?

[Anonymous Coward]

AAC hasn't been limited to Apple-only device for quite some time now:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Audio_Coding#Hardware

As for re-encoding into MP3, that was obviously sarcasm. Who would want to go from AAC to MP3?

Re:50,000 a day?

[yurtinus]

Hang on HANG ON!! I think you're on to something here... If you have the RV, you can put your big boxy screenless laptop in there and carry that around with you as well.

Never mind, I'm on your side of this discussion now. F tablets! Desktops 4 lyfe!

Re:50,000 a day?

[Oxford_Comma_Lover]

Fair point. :)

Re:50,000 a day?

[COMON$]

$300 for a casual browsing computer with iOS and an extra 3", or $300 for 3 less inches and an amazon prime, hulu+, cloud storage, and netflix. The extra $300 just doesn't make sense for a pad device for me, I would rather have the services and a device I can tuck into a pocket on my laptop case. My wife is a pharmacist making 90K a year as well and we still think they are pricey. Just because you HAVE money doesn't mean you spend it on things that don't make sense. Different people have different priorities.

no wonder...

[Dark Lord of Ohio]

I want one. Now. So count me in and take my $99. A hell with it, make it 4! One for me, my wife, two kids... damn. Make it 6. Labrador and chinchilla will have one too.

Re:no wonder...

[somersault]

Make that $199 for the Fire.

$79 if you want the lowest end no-keyboard version (which is my favourite considering I already have a Xoom for my tablet needs).

Re:no wonder...

[Dark Lord of Ohio]

Yeah, you're right. I mixed up prices for Kindle Fire and HP TouchPad, that one was for $99. So I just take two Fires. For me and my cute labrador. kids have iphones, wife still uses nokia 3210 playing snake so she would be probably lost in this fancy-touch-thingy anyway.

Re:no wonder...

[Jason Levine]

I want one also. I've been drooling over the iPad for quite awhile, but couldn't justify the $499 starting price point. At $199, though, I can buy one for me and one for my wife and still save money versus buying a single iPad. No, it doesn't have all of the features that the iPad has, but that's why it is being offered for less money.

Of course, from what I've heard, there will be a Kindle Fire 2 released in early 2012 which will be better than this initial offering. I might just start saving now and see what that one looks like. (Or perhaps I'll get one Fire now and one Fire 2 when that's released.)

Re:no wonder...

[anyaristow]

$109 if you want that without ads. That's the one I want, though I already have the keyboard version, as an even lighter leave-at-work Kindle.

Re:no wonder...

[Dark Lord of Ohio]

and then in 2013 there will be Kindle Fire 3... and you will end up in "infinite loop" of savings :)

Re:no wonder...

[Qzukk]

Hey, I save $200 every time I look at the fire and not buy it.

In a couple of months, I plan on retiring ;)

Re:no wonder...

[Anonymous Coward]

Give your Labrador $99 worth of rubber balls. He/She will be happier and you'll have less mess to clean up.

Re:no wonder...

[sonicmerlin]

I wish someone would put a solar panel on these e-ink readers. I know Toshiba and LG did that in Japan... so where's the American version?

Re:no wonder...

[somersault]

Well, it would be cool, but really I've not charged my Kindle for a couple of weeks and it's at about 45% battery. I just need to plug it into a USB port every month or two and it's sorted. It would be nice to have the option if you were a hardcore backpacker I suppose, but most people would be fine without. If you were a hardcore backpacker, you'd probably want a separate solar charging rig that can charge any of your devices though, so using a USB adapter from one to the other should work, right?

Re:no wonder...

[sonicmerlin]

No I just don't want to ever think about a charger cable ever again. Same way with a solar powered calculator.

Re:no wonder...

[somersault]

I'd rather use inductive charging from a proper solar charger if getting rid of cables was my main goal. I don't want to have to leave my phone out for 12 hours in the sun every day just to get enough charge to use it.

Right product, right price

[tripleevenfall]

This is the first competitor to the iPad at the working-class level. It's priced affordably and contains most of the features people will actually use.

Is it as full-featured as the iPad, of course not, but you don't need $500-600 to get into one. This device could bring apps, cloud storage, streaming media, and these kinds of things down to a crowd that couldn't afford the pay the Apple premium before.

Some will gripe about there not being cameras or a huge amount of onboard storage, but for the average consumer, this will give them 80% of the iPad at 40% of the price

Re:Right product, right price

[jedidiah]

The Apple product doesn't have a huge amount of onboard storage either.

Re:Right product, right price

[Doctor Memory]

Heh, I think half the average consumers for this type of device would be satisfied with a tablet with two functions: a web browser, and Angry Birds. Bonus for a basic MP3 player. Bring that in for around US$125 and you've got a killer product.

Re:Right product, right price

[Anonymous Coward]

That smell is motorola and samsung shitting their pants. If you want an iPad, you can buy an iPad. If you want a tablet, you can buy a kindle fire. If you want something that kind of looks like an iPad, but isn't, but costs just as much and isn't as good... well, nobody wants that.

I wonder about Google, though. Tablets are kind of stupid. It seems they only did Honeycomb because the manufacturers were trying to stick a Phone OS on a tablet and it was ruining the brand. They should focus on the phone and leave chrome for larger form factors.

Re:Right product, right price

[jedidiah]

Motorola and Samsung sell chips and they will sell them to anyone.

Neither is dependent on the success of products that would be viewed as iPad clones.

It's really Apple that's the single most vulnerable player in this space. Their tablets represents a far larger part of their business than such does for any of their rivals.

Re:Right product, right price

[Jason Levine]

I think you are completely right. I don't think Amazon is going after Apple with their Fire offering. At least not at first. They're not trying to be the #1 tablet, but the #2 tablet. If they play this right and if the Fire lives up to the hype, they'll wipe the floor with the other tablets. Then, when someone decides which tablet to buy, they'll ask themselves whether they want to spend the $499+ for an iPad or go with the cheaper, less-feature-rich, but still very nice Kindle Fire for $199.

Re:Right product, right price

[coinreturn]

iPad 2 on-board storage starts at twice the Fire on-board storage and goes up to 8 times.

Re:Right product, right price

[tripleevenfall]

This is a legitimate gripe in a way, but really, 60GB isn't enough to store all of my audio, either.

If I have to section off 8GB or 60GB of my music collection and maintain that, it's about the same amount of trouble either way - maybe even more trouble to maintain the larger list.

Re:Right product, right price

[ArhcAngel]

How about $149.00

Of course to get full functionality you'll need to root

and a quick install of your particular flavor ROM

Re:Right product, right price

[dzfoo]

Or, you could create an automatic playlist of all your music and set-up the iPad to just fill all available space with music sourced from that playlist.

No lists to maintain.
          -dZ.

Re:Right product, right price

[Pharmboy]

I pre-ordered mine on the 2nd day, to make sure I was in line to NOT get delayed shipping (I can always cancel before Nov 15 if I change my mind, after all). I ordered specifically because it WASN'T the iPad. I didn't want the camera and all the extra features, or the price. I imagine I'm like a lot of people:

I want something to read books on, but want something more than a regular Kindle. (ie: color) I want to be able to do some basic web browsing, read news, check web mail, etc and do basic work tasks. I want to be able to read most formats, ie: pdf, etc. I have never owned a tablet, and want my "test" of the waters to a simple, effective device. I want it bigger than a smart phone, but I don't want a giant tablet either. Yes, it would be nice if it had expanded memory slots, but that isn't as big of a deal as people might think. This isn't for doing serious work or content creation, it is for reading and basic web activities. And a casual game or two. Yes, Angry Birds would be one of those.

I've been looking for a tablet for 6 months, and just missed out on the HP deal. I already buy from Amazon regularly. Love their deals on used books. And now, I"m even considering their "Amazon Prime" with streaming movies and TV to the Fire, or my computer (which happens to be connected to my 42" tv anyway...) So yes, it is a media consumption product. It would be nice if I could connect to other app stores without jailbreaking it, but for $200, I can't complain. I can still transfer my own books to it, and they offer thousands of free books and hundreds of thousands under $10. For the money, for MY usage, it is a steal.

More importantly, in the long run this will INCREASE sales for the iPad and similar devices, because it is opening up the bottom end of the market with a product that is at least as different as it is alike. I can see lots of people falling in love with their tablet, and a year or so later, moving up to a $500+ version to get the extra features.

Re:Right product, right price

[Anonymous Coward]

.. these kinds of things down to a crowd that declined to pay the Apple premium before.

There, fixed that for you.

Re:Right product, right price

[skiflyer]

I get this type of comment from some media sources, but confused how someone on Slashdot overlooks the Nook Color. It was $50 more, but it was available about a year ago... hopefully B&N will counter with a price drop/hardware refresh.

That said, I think Amazon did a good job with the launch, and the better streaming media offering of Amazon will make this a huge success over the Nook.

And, to answer the question in the summary. I don't want one. e-reader + full featured tablet is my preference. Hoping the Xoom 2 is what I'm looking for.

Re:Right product, right price

[coinreturn]

If I have to section off 8GB or 64GB of my music collection and maintain that, it's about the same amount of trouble either way - maybe even more trouble to maintain the larger list.

Perhaps more trouble, but you have a LOT larger portion and thus it is not nearly as annoying. And by reversing your flagging method, it is less trouble (that is, flag what you don't want on your mobile device).

Re:Right product, right price

[squiggleslash]

I don't think it's even that far.

Amazon isn't producing a tablet, not in the iPad sense anyway (and definitely not in the Windows 8 sense.) This is a web-enabled media player. The range of media has expanded a little over what we're used to, but first and foremost it's a low cost device that does to videos, music, and games what the Kindle does to books.

In this universe, the iPad is essentially an irrelevance. The functionality overlaps with the iPad, sure, but the iPad is intended to more of a personal hub, not just for playing the above, but also as a communications center and a little bit of a creativity thing. I don't happen to think the iPad is a particularly good implementation of that (but what do I know? The sodding thing has sales through the roof...) but it's not exactly the same thing.

The whole "It's an iPad killer" thing is from a media that's hell bent on pushing that story despite the fact that Amazon has just changed their line up to be almost identical to their existing competitor, Barnes and Noble, and that the specs, price, and capabilities, of Amazon's device isn't remotely close to the iPad. I think we're going to have to wait for Windows 8, and the tablet iMac, before we see the real iPad killers. This isn't it, any more than a refrigerator or a car stereo is an iPad killer.

That's my view anyway, but what do I know. The only time I've predicted a runaway success in the consumer electronics sphere in the last decade was the Wii.

Re:Right product, right price

[CaptainLard]

The thing is, by the time the device is able to browse the web and run decent apps, it'll be able to do 90% of the other stuff people buy tablets for. So before you start selling it, make sure your software will cripple it and lock it down.

Re:Right product, right price

[dAzED1]

Mine will live on the kitchen counter, and provide such functions as:

recipies

internet web browsing to prove a point during an argument while at a party, playing a game, etc

looking up cheat codes while playing the PS3

throwing into a small bag to read e-books

etc.

And it will do those things just fine. I have been tempted to buy an ipad for a while, but for goofing off? Nah. I mean really, it's not like my laptop can't sit on the kitchen counter and do all of those things - but better. No, my laptop isn't touch-screen. But would I really want to touch the screen while cooking? Does a keyboard actually slow me down while typing? etc?

Re:Right product, right price

[Anarchduke]

I'm getting one. I don't need video conferencing on my portable porn pad anyway.

Re:Right product, right price

[Anonymous Coward]

I think the average consumer is satisfied with a traditional book... lol now... they are being sold on crap I'll admit... but...

Re:Right product, right price

[tehcyder]

This is a legitimate gripe in a way, but really, 60GB isn't enough to store all of my audio, either.

Why do you need an iPad to play music? Why not just get an iPod with 160gb storage and a basic cheap laptop for everything else. In fact, forget the iPod, just get a netbook, they are barely any more trouble than an iPad to carry around in a bag, you're not exactly going to fit either in your back jeans pocket..

Re:Right product, right price

[tehcyder]

I'm getting one. I don't need video conferencing on my portable porn pad anyway.

But what about all those Free Cam Girls?

Re:Right product, right price

[tripleevenfall]

I think for most people, it's a great feature if you have all your music with you all the time, be it on your smartphone, your tablet, or your PC. If those can all sync up without me interacting, that's really cool.

The Fire offers something like this with cloud storage, but it's not essential, obviously, in this device. I'd say it's a nice-to-have.

First Fire!

[Anonymous Coward]

You know that it would be untrue
You know that I would be a liar
If I was to say to you
Girl, we couldn't get much higher
Come on baby, light my fire
Come on baby, light my fire
Try to set the night on fire

The time to hesitate is through
No time to wallow in the mire
Try now we can only lose
And our love become a funeral pyre
Come on baby, light my fire
Come on baby, light my fire
Try to set the night on fire, yeah

The time to hesitate is through
No time to wallow in the mire
Try now we can only lose
And our love become a funeral pyre
Come on baby, light my fire
Come on baby, light my fire
Try to set the night on fire, yeah

You know that it would be untrue
You know that I would be a liar
If I was to say to you
Girl, we couldn't get much higher
Come on baby, light my fire
Come on baby, light my fire
Try to set the night on fire
Try to set the night on fire
Try to set the night on fire
Try to set the night on fire

Holy extrapolation

[nedlohs]

batman.

Important: Can it be jailbroken?

[Anonymous Coward]

Does it run Linux?

Very good numbers

[frinkster]

50,000 pre-orders per day is very good, but comparing it to the iPad is just asking for trouble. Wait until we get closer to the actual release date. I highly doubt that daily iPad pre-orders were linear in the weeks leading up to the official release, just as I doubt daily Fire orders will be linear. There are six weeks to go. A lot can happen in six weeks!

Oblig.

[Sasayaki]

http://xkcd.com/605/

"By your third trimester, there will be hundreds of babies inside of you."

Four dozen husbands

[naroom]

(Relevant xkcd)

Yep, want one.

[Anonymous Coward]

And already preordered a Fire

Thinking about it

[XxtraLarGe]

I was thinking about getting my wife an iPad 2 for Christmas, but unless Apple has a fire sale on them to make way for an iPad 3, I think I'll get her an Amazon Fire instead. It costs a lot less, and will probably allow her to do most of the things she would want to do with the iPad 2. She already has an iPod Touch (current gen.), so she doesn't need a camera, etc. Hopefully though, this will force Apple to drop their price.

Re:Thinking about it

[bdenton42]

If she really uses a iPod Touch she won't be happy with the Fire... "what do you mean I can't load all my iTunes and iApps?". If nothing else Apple has a lock on the ability to seamlessly move your stuff from one iDevice to the next that Android just doesn't do very well (yet?).

Re:Thinking about it

[Doctor Memory]

I ordered a Fire for my wife, all she really wants is an e-book reader with a web browser for e-mail, although I'm sure she'll find plenty of other uses for it once she gets it.

Re:Thinking about it

[Doctor Memory]

I dunno, I'm with the OP on this one. Both the Fire and the iPod are small enough to carry together (especially when you carry a purse or bag all the time anyway), and not everyone wants to have every possible function integrated into one device. I have an iPhone, but I still carry my iPod because I don't want to run the battery in my phone dead listening to music. That, and I hate not being able to listen to something I want simply because my phone doesn't have enough space to hold the bulk of my music collection.

Re:Thinking about it

[XxtraLarGe]

If she really uses a iPod Touch she won't be happy with the Fire... "what do you mean I can't load all my iTunes and iApps?".

She uses the iPod Touch as a music player & for shooting videos of her dog. The fire would be used mostly for reading eBooks & browsing the web, which she does not use the iPod Touch for very often, so no big worries there. Besides, if she buys Kindle books she can always get them on the iPod Touch as well using the Kindle app.

Re:Thinking about it

[dzfoo]

"Happy Christmas, honey-- Here you go!

I know it's not an iPad, but it's cheaper. Just as good, right?

Just thinking of you...

what??

Re:Thinking about it

[MobileTatsu-NJG]

I'm not interested in pushing the iPad on you, but I do want to mention that a 3.5" device and a 10" device have different uses. If you were to have an iPad and an iPod, they would serve different purposes, and you wouldn't WANT to carry them together. The iPod goes in the pocket, the iPad sits next to the couch or the bed. But if you got her a 7" device and it isn't quite big enough to make that difference, then you're likely to end up with something becoming a door stop.

If she has an iPod, get her an iPad or a Galaxy Tab 10.1. Don't get her a Fire unless the Amazon specific bits are of interest to her.

Re:Thinking about it

[TyFoN]

I bought a galaxy tab for my self, and after a week I was battling my wife over it so I had to buy one for her as well and she loves it. I don't think the fire would be approved :)

Re:Thinking about it

[Anonymous Coward]

I've got one on pre-order for my wife. Now she hates Apple with no reservations, so the iPad was/is not an option, she also has no interest in video chatting and she loves her Kindle e-reader. She just wants a tablet for the lightweight stuff like checking the news and facebook with multitasking limited to playing music at the same time. We're also ditching Netflix after 10 years and the free streaming video we get with the Amazon Prime (something we already pay for) will probably be a big perk on the Fire.

My wife likes the smaller size, but I won't be getting one for myself until they release at least 10" version so I can properly view textbooks and technical pdf's (and comic books). I'm also not a fan of the 'walled garden' created by Amazon's silk browser, but I did see the Opera browser in the Amazon App store for free with Flash support ?

Re:Thinking about it

[tehcyder]

My wife likes the smaller size

Sure she does.

Want or not? Irrelevant - I can't have it

[dk90406]

Ant or not? If is is locked down 100% and I only can run Amazon approved apps (like Silk), no thanks. If it is open to a reasonable degree and I can install the apps I want: yes.
But being from a Non-US country, I don't even have the choice.
I know better than to blame Amazon (entirely) - their whole concept is based on media, and they do not have license agreements in place globally. As they are selling at cost (or even a few $ loss) pr. device, I can understand they don't wan't be to buy until they can get their costs covered somehow.

Re:Want or not? Irrelevant - I can't have it

[Anonymous Coward]

I think it is more than the media arrangements, though that may be part of the reason, just look at the amount being pre-ordered in the US, I bet they'd have a hard time scaling it up to global demand.

Wait for deal on real Android tablet

[Anonymous Coward]

For example, the Lenovo IdeaPad A1: a 7" true Android tablet, slots for microSD and full SD, usb slot, bluetooth, etc. all for $199. May not be available in the US right away, but it shows were things are going.

If you get a real Android tablet, you can read ePub and Kindle, and so much more. With a real tablet, you are not vendor locked. With a tablet, you don't have a device that is crippled.

Re:Wait for deal on real Android tablet

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, keep waiting for the next one, that might ship, that might be that cheap, that might not have some skin that doesn't work well, etc, etc, etc.

Here's a few other tablets that "could have been" then next 'real' tablet, but weren't.

http://technologizer.com/2011/09/30/ipad-alternatives-3/

Nearly an impulse buy at this price

[Shivetya]

for many of us who frequent a site like this the price point is spectacular.

I already own an iPad, what I am looking for is a smaller form factor. The only negative I saw with the Fire was no camera, but having an iPad and its crappy as not to be even worth having camera, I found I don't miss that. I have a real camera and a better one on my phone anyway.

To me this is the first real Android tablet at a price point I expected. I didn't want Android tablets trying to ape iPads in features and price. I wanted an good alternative in a package that is not cumbersome. Yeah, after a few months with my iPad it suddenly feels big. It certainly isn't being used for all the things I was planning to use it for, but the Fire will do that just as well and I can buy myself and my parents each one and still be under the price of my iPad. As for the walled garden, I am pretty much there with my iPad and I have seen articles claiming Amazon won't go out of their way to stop me from rooting it if I want.

Frankly, after all the years of Apple products I am tired of the price and getting really tired of the feeling I am locked in.

Re:Nearly an impulse buy at this price

[yurtinus]

To me this is the first real Android tablet at a price point I expected.

I spose the other tablet manufacturers need to do a better job of marketing. Archos has had several 7" and 10" tablets in the $200 to $300 range, and the B&N Nook has been out for a year at a similar price point (and I suspect the Fire is a direct response to the Nook)...

Re:Nearly an impulse buy at this price

[The Phantom Mensch]

I spose the other tablet manufacturers need to do a better job of marketing. Archos has had several 7" and 10" tablets in the $200 to $300 range, and the B&N Nook has been out for a year at a similar price point (and I suspect the Fire is a direct response to the Nook)...

I think all the Archos products got bad reviews, in the "wrong touchscreen technology, slow processor, last years OS and no Apps store" level. The Fire doesn't have all those strikes against it. The Nook Color needs to be hacked to be a full featured tablet and that shuts a lot of the market out.

Re:Nearly an impulse buy at this price

[k31bang]

The one thing that is holding me back from purchasing it is the lack of 3g. I realize that with full internet, that there'd need to be a some kind of monthly plan. Make the plan $9.99 a month, and I bet anyone else like me would snap one up.

Re:Nearly an impulse buy at this price

[Anonymous Coward]

That is funny.

With over a thousand apps in my app store account, I don't feel locked in. I feel like I have any thing I could ever want.

I have absolutely no desire for Android any thing.

Re:Nearly an impulse buy at this price

[sonicmerlin]

Nook Color's CPU is also slow.

Re:Nearly an impulse buy at this price

[yurtinus]

Parent was talking about an Android tablet at that price point... All of them have quirks that can be nit picked, and the Fire sure as hell is going to have quirks (the 8GB memory with no option for expansion is the first glaring drawback to me...). The Archos 70 and 101 (newest editions, out for the last year or so) have decent reviews and use capacitive multitouch screens.

Good point on the apps store - they are available on all of the other devices, but it is a device specific store with fewer options than the Android Market. I seem to recall the Android app store having some hardware requirements to ensure a seamless experience across devices which locked out a bunch of tablets and forced them to run their own stores... Amazon's Fire will be no different, but I expect its app store will have enough critical mass to draw more developers and apps to it than Archos or Barnes and Noble could pull.

What it comes down to and what still isn't on the market (that I know of) is a low cost tablet running vanilla Android with access to the standard Android market. The Fire, despite being a very intriguing package, doesn't quite fit that.

Amazon is right on this one

[bradasch]

I think Amazon is being very clever with the Kindle Fire. It is a new device with tons of content readily available (more than iTunes, I believe), it is cheap and, most importantly, it is not a direct competitor to the iPad.

People who want (or don't mind) a 7" device will get the Kindle Fire. People who need a larger screen will go for the other tablets (mostly the iPad, these days).

I think the Kindle Fire will sell pretty well. And Apple will have someone else other than Samsung to get worried about.

How well does it work for scientific books?

[jps25]

I'm curious about the Kindle but some reviews I've read on amazon claim that its display size and its weak zoom function make it useless for typical university books (mathematics, computer science).
I have no first-hand experience, so could someone here enlighten me whether it's a viable alternative to paper?

Re:How well does it work for scientific books?

[DaScribbler]

eBooks in general aren't a viable alternative for textbooks, or any book designed for reference material. There's too much rapid back and forth page flipping during typical textbook use. Tablets/pads/desktops/laptops/dedicated devices/etc.. simply don't have a viable interface to replace the ease of three fingered page flipping, multiple reference books open at the same time for cross referencing, etc. IMHO, eBooks are only a viable replacement for linear/chronological reading (as in reading a novel).

Re:How well does it work for scientific books?

[artor3]

If you mean a regular Kindle, it's no good for text books. I love my Kindle, but e-ink just isn't good for that application. The Kindle Fire being described in the article, however, is a tablet computer with an LCD screen, and would probably work just fine in that role.

Re:How well does it work for scientific books?

[Anonymous Coward]

I have a 3rd gen kindle, and it works great for novels -- lighter than a book, reads just as well. I read with it almost every night and don't charge it but once a month. I haven't used it to read a text book, but I've browsed web pages. Other than being reeeallly slow, it displayed them pretty well for a B&W screen. I'd imagine it would work well as long as the content was properly encoded for the Kindle -- that's usually the problem on the Kindle with illustrated books.

Re:How well does it work for scientific books?

[Shados]

I dont know... full text search is a big deal, as well as being able to carry hundreds of books all at once to make sure you always have the right one with you.

Re:How well does it work for scientific books?

[Sockatume]

Screen size is an issue. There's a reason most textbooks are physically large. The Kindle DX works around this to a degree but the resolution's not quite good enough for figures and equations.

Re:How well does it work for scientific books?

[Anonymous Coward]

I bought Kindle DX for that, and it works fine. I read PDFs on it, though it is not A4 and sometimes it feels like text is too small - then I turn it and read half-page at a time.

Overall, very good experience so far.

I am renting, so having all my library in one small item appeals a lot.

It is not alternative to paper, considering centuries of research went into fonts and book design, which needs to be rethought now for ebooks. But it is a good enough substitute.

Re:How well does it work for scientific books?

[Anonymous Coward]

For PDF viewing, the Kindle DX is what you should look at. It's the only one with a screen large enough to comfortably view full-page PDFs. I'm using one for just that purpose and it works pretty well. Plus, eink is a huge plus.

Be aware, though, that the thing is more fragile than a glass christmas ornament. In a backpack containing two notebooks, a folder, a calculator, and the kindle dx in its protective case, the thing's screen managed to crack with no drops or bumps on the bag. I've got an extended warranty that covers accidental damage, but I'm still more than a little annoyed.

Yep.

[Anonymous Coward]

I pre-ordered mine the day it was announced. I'm not sure if I actually want one yet, but it puts me first in the queue and I can always cancel it before it comes out. Plus, if there is a shortage it might find a place on ebay.

Re:Yep.

[tehcyder]

I pre-ordered mine the day it was announced. I'm not sure if I actually want one yet, but it puts me first in the queue and I can always cancel it before it comes out. Plus, if there is a shortage it might find a place on ebay.

Translation: I am a total douchebag.

No

[Anonymous Coward]

...I do not want one. No Google API = no Gmail, Google Maps, Google Talk (with video). No thanks.

Re:No

[Anonymous Coward]

The android gmail app is shit anyway. Just go log into gmail in the webbrowser.

Extrapolating initial pre-orders to sales is trick

[NameIsDavid]

The original iPad racked up 100,000 preorders per day upon announcement, without any real preexisting tablet market to have stoked demand. The fact that it sold 1 million during the first month indicates that fulfilling these levels of orders for a complex product is tricky. Hopefully, since the Fire is based on the Playbook, they've been practicing production for a while.

Inadeqate on board memory

[rossdee]

* Gig may be enough for Ebooks, but its not enough for mp3's. Especially as there is no slot for a (SD or MicroSD) memory card.

Amazon may say you store your media on their cloud, but its only got WiFi and you might not always be within a EiFi area that you have free access to.

Re:Inadeqate on board memory

[tripleevenfall]

This is an internet appliance, basically. It's predicated on internet access. Just as laptops and desktops aren't that much good without internet access, neither will this be.

Re:Inadeqate on board memory

[CastrTroy]

My 4GB Ipod Nano does just fine for music. You don't need to take 100 GB of music with you. Sure it's nice to be able to, but hardly necessary. It used to be nice to have a CD walkman, and maybe bring a long a couple extra CDs. With this you can easily bring along 20 albums without carrying anything extra.

Re:Inadeqate on board memory

[cayenne8]

My 4GB Ipod Nano does just fine for music. You don't need to take 100 GB of music with you. Sure it's nice to be able to, but hardly necessary. It used to be nice to have a CD walkman, and maybe bring a long a couple extra CDs. With this you can easily bring along 20 albums without carrying anything extra.

Depends. My nano, is great for the gym...as that I only listen to about 1.5 hours a day on it...easily enough every week or so, when recharging to change the music.

However, for my car...and especially on trips, or even sitting in the office, I never know what I'll be in the mood to listen to.

That's where my iPod 160GB comes in. It houses *most* of my music collection...and a few videos, and podcasts. It is my radio station......and I like to be able to listen to whatever I own at any time the mood strikes me. This is especially true of traveling....I don't want to have to plan what I want to take or watch with me...hell, I have enough trouble remembering to pack enough clothes that match and toothbrush when traveling. I don't need to have to plan for all my entertainment needs too.

:)

Re:Inadeqate on board memory

[bored]

Just as laptops and desktops aren't that much good without internet access, neither will this be.

I find this curious, as my desktop can be unplugged from the network. When its unplugged I still have access to a couple Tb of movies, music, games, etc on the HD. In fact I can install new games/etc with CD/DVD/BluRay. I can also create my own music, art, movies, edit photos, applications, etc.

The tablets generally are far more handicaped in this mode, as there isn't a marketplace for buying usb/sd cards preloaded with applications or music. Sure you could boot your PC and copy stuff to usb/sd, but that basically reinforces my point that PC's function far better without network connections. Plus, your not exactly storing a lot of movies in 8-32GB of space. Outside of maybe ebooks, you could probably run through all the content stored on a tablet in a matter of days.

That said, the 10" tablets excel at being the handy web surfing device sitting in the kitchen/living room (especially the touchpad with its inductive charging dock). Pick it up, poke in a search read the results put it back on the dock. Frankly, its not good at much else. Its two big to carry around all the time, and two small to use at home for watching movies/games/music. Same think with the e-ink kindles, they are rocking ebook readers, but not so hot at much else.

Do I want one?

[3dr]

No. For two reasons. Like somersault above, I already have a tablet for tablet-y things. I've tried reading with the Kindle app, and while the presentation is good, the glow from the screen strains my eyes. Also, battery life sucks for this purpose.

The second and more important reason is I wanted an e-ink display for a reader. A touch screen isn't very useful, either.

So what I ordered was the previous generation Kindle Keyboard as they call it now, with no ads. Small, great battery life, /and/ they had a refurbished one for $40 off, making the price $100.

Re:Do I want one?

[MozeeToby]

I've tried reading with the Kindle app, and while the presentation is good, the glow from the screen strains my eyes. Also, battery life sucks for this purpose.

While I agree with you, especially if you read for more than an hour a day, you might get better results switching to black background with white lettering. After a day at work staring at a PC screen, the last thing I want to do is try and read for leisure off of one (which is why I have an eInk reader) but I can do so comfortably for limited amounts of time by swapping the pallet. I know the Android Kindle app allows for swapping, and I'm pretty sure the Touchpad app does as well but that's all I have familiarity with.

Doesn't surprise me that much.

[jimicus]

Apple essentially reinvented the market for tablet devices with the iPad. Which is a premium product being sold by a company with a reputation for premium products at a premium price.

Virtually every other major manufacturer looked at it, thought "Hey, we can do something similar" and started selling their product for about the same price - give or take maybe 5-10%. The likes of HP discovered the hard way that they do not have a premium reputation. But the Touchpad sale proved that actually there's huge demand there if the product can be sold not 5-10% cheaper than the iPad, but 50-80%.

Given the development time these things take and the sort of notice you have to give to a big factory to get thousands of anything, Amazon have probably been thinking this for some time.

Re:Doesn't surprise me that much.

[MozeeToby]

But the Touchpad sale proved that actually there's huge demand there if the product can be sold not 5-10% cheaper than the iPad, but 50-80%.

Lots of uneconomical products sell if priced at less than 1/3rd the manufacturing cost. There'd be a Model S on every block by now if they sold for $12k. I'd have a 6 monitor setup on my desk at home if I could find one for $300. Not that I don't like my $99 Touchpad, but there's no way I would have dropped $350 for the device.

Re:Doesn't surprise me that much.

[jimicus]

This is exactly my point.

I have a sneaking suspicion that all the manufacturers set up to build a product that would retail at $4-500 and could not possibly break even at less than $350. Which means not only did they have a product that was being pitched too pricey, there was no way of reducing the price without making a whacking great loss.

Amazon, OTOH, have obviously considered that from the off. They'll do fine.

Re:Doesn't surprise me that much.

[polyp2000]

An interesting viewpoint.

While Apple can certainly be commended for redefining tablet computing,
Id also like to add in another thought for consideration.

Bearing in mind that Microsoft are yet to bring to market a viable tablet / phone OS to compete with iOS would we have seen the explosion of iPad
(android) alternatives if it was not for the proliferation of Android?

In short - do we owe some degree of thanks to the (i use the term loosely) openness of Android/Google that so many other manufacturers have been able to so quickly bring healthy competition to the table by leveraging the Android ecosystem?

Nick ...

Re:Doesn't surprise me that much.

[Anonymous Coward]

Its basic economics, measuring the utility (happiness) of the product with the price, you can compare that to new products to produce the household equilibrium.

iPad/Price > HP Touchpad/Price

Smaller price means that people will prefer the Kindle Fire,

Kindle Fire/Small Price > iPad/High Price

The Game.

Re:Doesn't surprise me that much.

[CannonballHead]

But Amazon already has a reputation for the eReader market, too. I don't think Amazon is simply copying Apple here.

Pre-Ordered on day 1

[The Joe Kewl]

I placed my pre-order on day 1, however if there isn't a way to browse the internet WITHOUT Silk, I won't use it much at all.

Given the fact that it is an Android device, I have faith that it will be hacked fairly quickly, and you will be able to do almost anything with it anyways!

Re:Pre-Ordered on day 1

[MBoffin]

...if there isn't a way to browse the internet WITHOUT Silk, I won't use it much at all.

You can turn Silk off and not use it all. Then it just acts like any other webkit browser.

Re:Pre-Ordered on day 1

[Anonymous Coward]

It uses the Amazon Appstore. Opera and Dolphin are both available on the Amazon Appstore. Apparently, the device won't be locked down, so there should be custom ROMs out for it rather quickly.

Why a depression

[Sunshinerat]

In the past year I have been saying something along this lines to explain why there is a recession and the iPhone (I am using this device as a generalization for the entire smart phone/tablet market) is one of the initiators.

It is the device everyone should have, so sales for these devices (including apps) are skyrocketing. It is something that you can flounder around with, peer pressure... Because the non-essential money is spent on these luxury items, no money goes towards the things that are within the home (like furniture, carpets, appliances etc. - again a generalization). Just look around, all I see are furniture stores (and the likes) close all over the place.

So what happens is that a couple of companies benefit from this trend (Apple, HTC, Samsung, etc.). Since these devices are not assembled in the USA/Europe, our hard earned cash goes to China (not your local furniture store and its supply chain), with the result that a large part of our money is not inserted in the US/Eur economy.

Re:Why a depression

[cayenne8]

It is the device everyone should have, so sales for these devices (including apps) are skyrocketing. It is something that you can flounder around with, peer pressure... Because the non-essential money is spent on these luxury items, no money goes towards the things that are within the home (like furniture, carpets, appliances etc. - again a generalization). Just look around, all I see are furniture stores (and the likes) close all over the place.

I'm not sure I understand your first point....you said it is a device "everyone should have". Where do you get that? A smart phone, hell, just a cell phone is a luxury. No one needs that to live.

And, why a problem with luxuries? If you can afford a Porsche, why not get one and be happy? Not everyone can afford one, and certainly no one needs one. But no reason to get mad that they exist for the pleasure of those that can afford them.

The problem is...that some how, everyone thinks they're entitled to nice things, luxury items. I'm sorry, but you can't fix "stupid". If people are poor and can't figure out that food and shelter (and looking for a better job, education, etc) are more important that *bling*, then well...that's their problem. And you can't legislate fixing idiocy.

The US, at least..is supposed to be a place with equal opportunity to succeed, but you gotta figure what YOU are going to do with your opportunities....based on your starting position in life. It is tougher for some than others....but that's just life, always has been that way.

If you can afford nice things...more power to you. If you can't and want them..then you have to have enough adult thinking about you...to defer immediate gratification, and do the hard work and sacrifice it takes to attain the level of income that allows you to afford nice things.

But, no one is entitled to just have nice things....sadly, too many people out there have an unjustified sense of entitlement.

Re:Why a depression

[Sunshinerat]

I think we are on the same page...

When I said, 'everyone needs to have one', it is a statement that a large number of people think that they need to have one (disclaimer, I do not carry a smart phone).
With that behavior, the portion of money spent on non essentials moves to the smart phone business with the effect that this money doesn't do much for the economy other than the Apple's (and Apple's effect on the local economy is marginal). the behavior feeds only the Asian supply chain, not much in US or Europe.

People buying luxury items feeds/reignites the economy (the essentials economy remains in a recession), the problem now is that the luxury items people buy are no longer sourced/built/shipped in the US/Eur limiting the effect on recovery. Things that fuel our economy best: Kitchen/bathroom/garden remodels and products sourced and built in your region.

As someone said before: a $500 handbag to carry food stamps.

Re:Why a depression

[Anonymous Coward]

"God damn it, an entire generation pumping gas, waiting tables; slaves with white collars. Advertising has us chasing cars and clothes, working jobs we hate so we can buy shit we don't need."
-Tyler Durden, Fight Club

"Consumption. This is the new national pastime. Fuck baseball, it's consumption, the only true, lasting American value that's left . . . buying things . . . People spending money they don't have on things they don't need . . . So they can max out their credit cards and spend the rest of their lives paying 18 percent interest on something that cost $12.50. And they didn't like it when they got it home anyway. Not too bright, folks, not too fuckin' bright."
-George Carlin

Re:Why a depression

[tehcyder]

And, why a problem with luxuries? If you can afford a Porsche, why not get one and be happy? Not everyone can afford one, and certainly no one needs one. But no reason to get mad that they exist for the pleasure of those that can afford them.

Some of us would rather have a society where everyone had a Nissan Micra, rather than one where a few people had Porshces and the rest walked, or at least a society where people thought of that as a worthwhile goal.

Re:Why a depression

[tehcyder]

People buying luxury items feeds/reignites the economy (the essentials economy remains in a recession), the problem now is that the luxury items people buy are no longer sourced/built/shipped in the US/Eur limiting the effect on recovery. Things that fuel our economy best: Kitchen/bathroom/garden remodels and products sourced and built in your region.

You still create work through shipping, distribution, warehousing, wholesaling, retailing,designing,installing and so on, even if you don't make the stuff in your own country.

Re:Why a depression

[tehcyder]

It's the later model consumer-capitalist system in action.

Re:Why a depression

[cayenne8]

Some of us would rather have a society where everyone had a Nissan Micra, rather than one where a few people had Porshces and the rest walked, or at least a society where people thought of that as a worthwhile goal.

So, you penalize the people with smarts, that work hard to succeed...and make the pay for those that can't or are lazy?

If I can't keep my means that I have worked for all my life so far.....and I have to use most of it to support others and 'give' them an undeserved lifestyle up to what I have left to afford. Where exactly is the incentive for ME to keep working my ass off? Heck, a smart person would see that doing so, is a waste of time...and soon...everyone is trying to have the life 'given' to them, and at some point...there is no one left to work to support the moochers.

Is that really what you want?

Life isn't fair, and not everyone is born with equal gifts (I'll never be an NBA star).....not everyone has the drive to succeed....why should those that do, be forced to give to those who don't or won't?

Re:Why a depression

[rogerbly]

Some of us would rather have a society where everyone had a Nissan Micra, rather than one where a few people had Porshces and the rest walked, or at least a society where people thought of that as a worthwhile goal.

Well said!

P.S. And love David Lynch's Micra spot: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkt8L0NtSjA

Re:Why a depression

[rogerbly]

So, you penalize the people with smarts, that work hard to succeed...

I don't think he is saying you penalized by not having a Porshce for all your hard work, just that he'd rather live in a society that did not use it's resources to build Porshces, or want Porshces. That fair.

Come on, let's all sing it.. "Imagine there's no Porshce. It's easy if you try..."

A refurbished iPad is $300.

[s.o.terica]

The iPad 1 is $299 (yes, that's "refurbished," but many people believe that's just Apple's strategy for price discrimination since Apple "refurbished" products are indistinguishable from new).

That's the real competitor for the Kindle Fire, and with over twice the screen real estate, twice the memory, and an infinitely better selection of apps than are available in the Amazon Appstore, for most people the iPad is likely to be the better purchase.

Re:A refurbished iPad is $300.

[Anonymous Coward]

And it has less RAM and a much slower CPU.

As for the display, it's all a matter of taste. Some people prefer the portability of a 7" tablet. Just like a 3.5" iPhone isn't cheaper than a 10" iPad but some people still buy it.

Re:A refurbished iPad is $300.

[Almandine]

That's still 50% more expensive for a "used" older generation product. Quite a few people have a real aversion to refurbished electronics, especially personal electronics.

Re:A refurbished iPad is $300.

[Lumpy]

"Some people prefer the portability of a 7" tablet."

Until they try to read their first educational or technical book on it. Then they hate it.

7" is great for novels and recreational reading, it's utter crap for technical manuals, documents, magazines, and Textbooks. I have an iPad and a KindleDX and those are far,far,FAR, superior to any 7" reader made for any document that is not a paperback novel.

I personally want a 12" reader that has a 8.5" X11" screen.

Re:A refurbished iPad is $300.

[Sockatume]

I don't think Amazon views the limited supply of refurbished iPad units as a competitor. There's a pretty finite supply of them.

Re:A refurbished iPad is $300.

[gauauu]

(yes, that's "refurbished," but many people believe that's just Apple's strategy for price discrimination since Apple "refurbished" products are indistinguishable from new).

Unless a new iPod touch comes with the back panel scratched and slightly dented, I'd disagree. Because the refurb one I purchased came that way. It worked fine, and the front panel was clearly new, but the back was well worn and obviously used.

Re:A refurbished iPad is $300.

[Altus]

It also has a better battery life and you can pay a bit more and get a 3G version with GPS. Its not so cut and dry.

Re:A refurbished iPad is $300.

[IANAAC]

"Some people prefer the portability of a 7" tablet."

Until they try to read their first educational or technical book on it. Then they hate it.

7" is great for novels and recreational reading, it's utter crap for technical manuals, documents, magazines, and Textbooks. I have an iPad and a KindleDX and those are far,far,FAR, superior to any 7" reader made for any document that is not a paperback novel.

I personally want a 12" reader that has a 8.5" X11" screen.

I think that most people looking at a 7 inch tablet aren't doing so to be able to read technical documents. Students looking for something for educational materials, maybe. I have a cheap 7 inch android tablet that (so far) has been able to handle pretty much every course book I've thrown at it, though - illustrations and diagrams included. I don't use the standard PDF reader (utter crap). I use QuickOffice. It seems to handle huge PDFs much better than anything else I've seen for android.

In any case, I think the target audience for these 7 inchers are people that want to read ebooks bought through Amazon's store, do a little email, browse a few web pages. People looking for something that can handle A4 formatted PDFs, probably not so much.

Re:A refurbished iPad is $300.

[vijayiyer]

You got a defective refurb, and should probably take it back.

Re:A refurbished iPad is $300.

[Anonymous Coward]

On a tablet, double the screen size can be a disadvantage as much as an advantage.

I have the original Galaxy Tab. It fits in the inside pocket of a suit jacket or overcoat without ruining the line of the suit/coat.

I don't know the res for the Fire, but the Tab's res is 1024x600, whilst the iPad's is a comparatively meager 1024x768. Near enough the same resolution for twice the screen size?

Size isn't everything.

Re:A refurbished iPad is $300.

[nullchar]

Dude, I would *love* a 12" android tablet with a high-res screen! Galaxy tab 10" seems slick, but bigger is better! I don't care about thickness: an awesome screen + extra long battery life is worth a premium price to me.

Re:A refurbished iPad is $300.

[roblarky]

12"? Pssh.

I want my 24" tablet which has a dock with DVI and USB ports, that way I can drop it in have it be the display for my desktop, or plug in my keyborad and mouse for full tablet usage, or take it on the go.

I can see it now, whipping out my 24" tablet in Starbucks..it would be glorious! Who's the alpha hipster now, biatches?!

Re:A refurbished iPad is $300.

[simcop2387]

towards that 8.5"x11" factor, I'd personally love one like that with a color e-ink screen. I don't want something for playing games on, but for reading and taking notes. The addition of color e-ink would make for a much nicer comic book reader and a way to do highlighting inside an textbook just like the real thing.

Re:A refurbished iPad is $300.

[yurtinus]

I went with a 7" Nook over a larger tablet specifically for portability - I use mine for road maps, web, chatting, and a 10" tablet wouldn't fit where I want it in my tank bag (or jacket pocket...)

Fitness for a task I suppose. Would I use a 12" tablet? Sure! But I wouldn't do the same things with it that I do with my 7". Everything is a tradeoff, for some of us the portability outweighs the screen real estate.

Re:A refurbished iPad is $300.

[yurtinus]

"Cosmetic damage" is typically listed as something you'll get in a refurbished device. It doesn't make the device defective... just.. y'know... refurbished!

Re:A refurbished iPad is $300.

[Lumpy]

A roll up A0 size e-paper display... I know a LOT of people that would buy that. Every architect and engineer would but more than 1.

Re:A refurbished iPad is $300.

[MikeBabcock]

I'd rather have a faster tablet with a smaller screen that's easier to carry around, thanks. My wife can fit a 7" tablet in her purse no problem. I carry a 5" Dell Streak with me everywhere and use it as my current Kindle device regularly.

10" tablets are not the be-all and end-all of tablet sizing.

Re:A refurbished iPad is $300.

[BigPhatPhuck]

From the Apple Store site: All refurbished iPad models also include a brand new battery and outer shell.

Re:A refurbished iPad is $300.

[jo_ham]

Except that if there's cosmetic damage to the outside of a refurb item from Apple you should send it back for replacement - they change the external cases for new ones.

Re:A refurbished iPad is $300.

[Lunzo]

In other words, size doesn't matter it's how you use it?

Re:A refurbished iPad is $300.

[tehcyder]

I think the target audience for these 7 inchers

Fnarr fnarr.

Re:A refurbished iPad is $300.

[tehcyder]

That's still 50% more expensive for a "used" older generation product. Quite a few people have a real aversion to refurbished electronics, especially personal electronics.

And especially the poorly engineered and shoddily constructed overpriced plastic rubbish that Apple churn out.

Sorry, did I say that out loud?

Re:A refurbished iPad is $300.

[rogerbly]

But you have to carry around those four paperweights to hold down the corners when using it. They're clanking around in your pocket scratching up phone, etc. Pain. Amazon Fire preordered due of Silk browser curosity.

Re:A refurbished iPad is $300.

[yurtinus]

I stand corrected.

still waiting

[Anonymous Coward]

The color kindle is the first one I consided. I want a bigger screen though. Give me a 10" or 11" color kindlr for under $300 and I'll consider it.

Technology will hit that price point eventually. Till hen I could care less. I bought my first GPS unit when it hit $100. I could care less to pay $400 for what is basically a fancy calculator. Remember, those things when first introduced were hundreds of dollars.

Re:still waiting

[Oswald McWeany]

I'm of the same mindset. I don't need a tablet... nothing about my life requires I have one. Sure it would be darn cool and I'd use it. At $200 it is beginning to get tempting.

However, my desktop is ancient- and I'd much rather just upgrade that for the $200. I use that all the time- and I do need that to function.

Tablets are beginning to get good enough and cheap enough for those of us not loaded with dough to be taking a second look. Maybe in a couple years I'll pick one up.

Re:still waiting

[tehcyder]

The color kindle is the first one I consided. I want a bigger screen though. Give me a 10" or 11" color kindlr for under $300 and I'll consider it.

I got a 10" Advent Android tablet for GBP200 here in the UK, that's roughly USD300. Once you've cyanogenmoded it, it's as good as an iPad for anything I would be using a tablet for.

Do you want one, or not?

[rec9140]

Nope.

Not a tablet

No GPS

No camera(s)

No cellular data (CDMA, LTE, UMTS, GSM)

Not a true Android device, as its been adulterated with a custom UI, and browser

Not interested in purchasing media books or any thing like that, so it essentially

Serves no purpose for me.....

If some one comes up with a away to put a Custom ROM with a stock Android on it to allow it to function as a true tablet fine.

All I can say is there are a lot of suckers out there.

Re:Do you want one, or not?

[Anonymous Coward]

You forgot to add "lame" to the end of your list.

And you'll be about as right as Taco with his iPod judgement

Wake me up...

[goldspider]

...when you guys have shoehorned Android onto it!

No one NEEEDS an iPAD

[Oswald McWeany]

I see valid use for an iPad. I see it being usefull in the office.

However, no-one NEEDS a personal iPad- it is little more than a status symbol toy which does things that most owners of iPads already have tools that do each of the tasks better.

That's where a $200 device can whack them. For the average Joe who doesn't have the funds or the desire for a status symbol... doesn't care if he doesn't look cool by not having an Apple- he can get the toy that most people probably can save up for without meaning baby gets no shoes.

Re:No one NEEEDS an iPAD

[Anonymous Coward]

actually, it's great for the following. watching tv shows on the net watching movies surfing web checking email reading books playing games The best part, I don't have a huge laptop scorching my thighs. I can easily do this from bed and not have to go to desktop. Any decent tablet-like system should be able to do this regardless of who manufactures it.

Re:No one NEEEDS an iPAD

[yurtinus]

What the hell in a developed country is about needs anyway? If you're posting on slashdot, you aren't living to fulfill your basic needs, you're living to fulfill your wants. There's nothing wrong with that.

Before you go go...

[Anonymous Coward]

...when you guys have shoehorned Android onto it!

Android's already on it. Albeit a version that will be replaced with one that takes better advantage of the hardware.

Re:Before you go go...

[oh_my_080980980]

Umm a modified version of 2.3. Not compatible with the latest version.

I'm one of those that pre-ordered.

[DeafDumbBlind]

I don't own a tablet yet. I refuse to give Apple any money, and other tablets didn't impress me.
I like that this thing is only 7" and will fit into an inside suit jacket pocket.
I was seriously looking at the BB Playbook, but the software just isn't there yet.
This was a no brainer for me.
The Kindle Fire will make a nice media consumption device.

I already have a 3G kindle for reading books.

Re:I'm one of those that pre-ordered.

[DogDude]

You won't give Apple any money, but you're OK giving Amazon money? How does that work?

Re:I'm one of those that pre-ordered.

[DeafDumbBlind]

I've disliked Apple and Steve Jobs since for a variety of reasons since the early 90s.
1) They crushed the Mac clone market
2) Until switching to Intel's CTD chips,they sold inferior hardware for bloated prices to their legions of loyal fans.
3) Jobs/Pixar/Stock options
4) iTunes

Amazon provides solid hardware at great prices, they allow me to copy PDFs directly to my Kindle via a regular, 99 cent USB cable, they provided free instant videos to Prime Users, etc, etc, etc.

Apple will not get a penny from me at long as they insist on controlling everything via iTunes and selling proprietary crab accessories like cables for $40.

So close to getting my $$$ Amazon!

[Anonymous Coward]

Wife and I had the 1st gen e-ink model. Loved it, especially the ability to browse for free over Whispernet (even though it was low bandwidth, lousy res, black and white, and most pages rendered horridly). My only complaint was that it wasn't a full "tablet" (although I did appreciate e-ink in bright conditions).

If Amazon had only decided to keep the free internet access, I'd have been sold. You see, I'm not one of those people that needs to stream a Youtube video while in a taxi, but it would be really nice to have a constant (even if incredibly low-bandwidth) internet connection...for the little things, like I'm waiting at the doctor's office and want to read a blog, or to google an address on a road trip. Hell, I'd even pay a few bucks a month for it if you pressed me, but quite frankly, the kind of money the cell companies are trying to charge for 3g data is insane, no thanks.

Kindle has been a useful gadget for me.

[erick99]

I bought a Kindle last August (when the Kindle 3 was announced) and it is one of the few gadgets that has gotten regular use. I like not having to wear reading glasses to read a magazine or a book (I just keep increasing the font size). The e-ink technology is easy on my eyes and much easier than reading on a computer screen. I am not sure if I want a tablet or not but I pre-ordered one anyway. If I don't want it I will put it on ebay or give it as a Christmas gift. I don't think that the Kindle Fire is an iPad killer because it is not competing with the iPad on features. It is intended to be a basic tablet for surfing, media, and, of course, buying lots of Amazon music, video, product, etc.

You can install your own Android apps

[manekineko2]

No one knows for sure, but it is believed you can install your own Android apps.

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2393740,00.asp

"Jenkins said he didn't know whether the bootloader was locked, which is one hurdle Android hackers face when altering their devices. The company won't help hackers root the tablet, it just isn't actively trying to stop them. The tablet has a USB port and mass storage mode, so you can also sideload Android APK program files, even without rooting it. That will be one way to get apps not available in Amazon's Appstore onto the Fire."

Different strokes

[manekineko2]

Not all of us ready educational and technical books, so it isn't really an "until they try to" situation as you put it.

Paperbacks dominate the market for books, and this thing has a form-factor similar to a paperback.

Frankly, for technical documents where I need to be flipping around a lot as opposed to reading straight through, paper kills any electronic medium.

A 7 inch tablet with an 8 hour battery life

[Anonymous Coward]

Is pretty much worthless. Might as well buy a cheap laptop, at least you can do something with it.

E-ink

[bolthole]

The slashdot article throws in a reference to "the e-ink line".

The thing is, that's exactly what I want in a tablet: color e-ink.
I dont want to play fast-screen-refresh games. I want a single device, that is *really really good* for reading stuff, and then the occasional thing like google maps, facebook, email, blah blah.
that's what I use my iphone for. I'd like a bigger one.
But no-one is offering this in e-ink. Arrg!

FYI: iPads are real tools to many people

[Brannon]

You may not be aware that many iPads are being sold as "the best tool for the job" in various industries, including point-of-sale applications and augmentative communications devices for the disabled.

Obviously they account for a small percentage and so your point stands, but just FYI.

You can drop the 'status' crap. People don't buy Apple to look cool. That's like saying that people only buy Lexus to look cool.

Re:FYI: iPads are real tools to many people

[Oswald McWeany]

You need to read what I said- I said I see it's value in the office.

At home- for the consumer- it is primarily sold as a status symbol/image thing. Anything the tablet can do, a lower price laptop/desktop can do better.

Sure it has a GPS and a few other cool things... but again- other things that rich people already have do that better too. It's nice to have in one place- but it IS really an over-priced status symbol when used by the consumer... would love to have one- because they are cool- but I have more usefull places to apply my money.

Get a life, guy.

[Brannon]

Nobody cares about your petulant little bitchy opinion of Apple.

You get one life, thus far you have wasted it on a silly feud with a corporation that isn't aware that you exist. What are you going to do with the rest of it?

Re:Get a life, guy.

[DeafDumbBlind]

Funny... you clearly seem to care... the person that responded to my original post seemed to care since he asked...

I haven't wasted anything... unless you think that my life is somehow less fulfilling without shiny Apple toys... take your own advice and get a life fanboi.

Unlikely to be linear

[Anonymous Coward]

Note that there were 95,000 pre-ordered on the first day. Its likely that the rate of orders is going to drop from that and then achieve a steady state. Even if you assume (unrealistically) that it was steady after the first day, its 38,000 per day.

Isn't this a Nook competitor?

[crow]

A color 7" Android-based tablet from a major book seller? This sounds exactly like the Nook. Why is everyone comparing it to the iPad instead of the Nook?

Perhaps...

[JackSpratts]

...once it's rooted and open. Even then, these consume-er devices hold little interest (so far anyway - I used my iTouch for about a month). But if it's walled? Forget it.

- js.

I'm buying it

[Anonymous Coward]

I can't justify the big bucks for another iPad (got one for the kids to use on trips and around the house), but the idea of a smaller, handier tablet that I can 1)check email, 2)read books 3)light web surfing and 4)videos on the go when I need to kill time.

I buy a lot of stuff through Amazon.com, so the fact it is a portal to push their goods doesn't bother me.

Not the fire, but the Touch

[RatBastard]

I already have an iPad, so I'm not all that interested in a Kindle Fire. For all that I like my iPad, the one place it is lacking is reading books. Yes, you can, and there are a lot of apps to do it. But the glare and the weight gets to you after a while. Having read books on a Kindle I'm very interested in the Kindle Touch. Even if the touchscreen tech isn't on par with the iPad (and for that price it would be hard for Amazon to pull that off) I like the idea of not having to fish around for buttons.

Nope...

[Anonymous Coward]

If it's not E-Ink, it's not worth getting for reading and there are better tablet products for all of the other stuff. Only E-Ink is viewable in the sun and, unlike a lot of slashdot readers, I do not live in my mothers basement or read in the dark. I like reading when sitting in the sun. I'll upgrade when Amazon comes out with a color E-Ink reader.

Consider the Source

[Anonymous Coward]

Whether the numbers are accurate or not is beside the point. How can this have any credibility? Amazon leaking a screenshot of a spreadsheet is about as thin a ploy as Apple losing an iPhone prototype in a bar (even once). Are you guys really taking this seriously? After all, the best way to make people want one is to convince them that everyone else wants one. It's the same logic that is demonstrated in elections: people vote for candidates they perceive to be winners.

Price discrimination?

[galanom]

Kindle (plain) is at $79 on .com and £89 on .co.uk
That's ridiculous!

Sony PRS-T1

[MotorMachineMercenar]

I'm looking for my first ereader now that the prices are reasonable. Sony PRS-T1 has a similar feature set as Kindle Touch, but doesn't have vendor lock-in, draconian Amazon policies of coming to your home and stealing YOUR books, and banning books they don't like. Sony is slightly lighter and smaller as well, and has native ePub support for easier and better access to non-DRM books. Sony is 10 USD more expensive than similar Kindle. It also comes with offline English and non-English dictionaries, not sure if Kindle does.

It's not all good news, though: it's a Sony.

Re:Sony PRS-T1

[tehcyder]

It's not all good news, though: it's a Sony.

Who cares? At least it's not an Apple.

What is the point of renting ebooks at full price?

[Shompol]

When Amazon recalled Orwell's '1984' on all Kindles they proved that the electronic copies sold for Kindle for $15 do not belong to the customers. It is more like a license to read. It is a non-transferable electronic copy that expires when your kindle device dies or when Amazon folds.

Can anyone please shed the light as to why do people buy these volatile copies at full price of a hardcover book?

I would like to own books in digital format for the obvious storage advantage, but leasing DRM'd books for $15 sounds like a rip-off.

Ipod Touch Killer

[GruntboyX]

Given Apple's recent lackluster announcement, I have a feeling this device will cannibalize Ipad and Ipod touch sales. The only thing the touch has going for it, is the portability. However is that worth the expense? Ordered mine day one. It has 85% of the functionality of the Ipad at 40% of the cost. Its a trade off I am happy to live with