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Ask Slashdot: Teaching Chemistry To Home-Schooled Kids?
First time accepted submitter mikewilsonuk writes "I have a 10-year-old grandson who has shown an interest in chemistry. He is home educated and doesn't read as well as schooled kids of his age. He hasn't had much science education and no chemistry at all. None of his parents or grandparents have chemistry education beyond the school minimum and none feel confident about teaching it. My own memories of chemistry teaching in school are of disappointment, a shocking waste of everyone's time and extreme boredom. I think there must be a better way. Can anyone suggest an approach that won't ruin a child's interest?"
http://www.amazon.com/Thames-Kosmos-645014-CHEM-C3000/dp/B00007B8M6
My early chemistry researches were finding household chemicals that could blow things up. I found them. YMMV
All ideas^H^H^H^H^Hprocesses in this post are Patent Pending. (as well as the process of patenting all postings)
Yea, have him taught by people that know something. Send the kid to school
http://movies.netflix.com/WiMovie/Breaking_Bad/70143836?trkid=2361637
Send this kid to public school! Or private school. While they aren't perfect it sounds like he is in a pretty bad situation now.
A good place to start is "The Golden Book of Chemistry Experiments" by Robert Brent. Some of the material is a bit dated but the overall presentation is great.
Via these magazines he can learn to read AND learn science at the same time:
http://clarkesworldmagazine.com/prior/
http://www.astronomy.com/
http://www.sciencenews.com/
AND audio/video courses on chemistry (a lot of this stuff you can download for free off isohunt.com) http://www.thegreatcourses.com/tgc/search/search.aspx?searchphrase=chemistry
My AC stalker: " I personally agree with your posts most of the time, but that won't keep me from modding you troll"
There are qualified educators in the US?
A good chemistry book you can buy is General Chemistry from Linus Pauling.
I suggest you read it and try to teach him what you learn, or just give him the book and tell him that if he read it he will know chemistry.
Thermite and one-pot reactions of silver. Mature adult supervision required for either.
There were a place that children could go, and be taught by experts (or at least knowledgable people) about topics their parents we not experts in...
Maybe we could call it... SCHOOL.
And if only this place was free, and there was no barrier to entry...
Oh yes, we have that.
This is what school is for. Send the child to school.
They couldn't possibly be concerned about their child's safety because of a lack of a trained responder at the school or a track record of poorly handling bullying. Nor could they be concerned about substandard results from our country's education system. They couldn't even be atheist liberal arts majors concerned about the influence of the religious right on curiculum. Nope they are the worst kind of folks, religious idiots, because those folks seem the most interested in seeking out help for their shortcomings in instructing their children in science.
Agreed my teach blew stuff up too (he was irish, it was the 80s, he wasnt PC) stunning!
I bet they are above average in Bible study and other Fantasy stuff they are brainwashing him with.
Generally, homeschooling seems to manifest in either of the two political/religious extremes. For the lefty version, see "unschooling."
Not all home-schooling is for religious reasons. Sometimes it is just because the local school system is failing the kids. Or ins some cases, because the public school is teaching religious theory instead of science.
This sounds like one of those classic cases where the client thinks his knows what he wants but doesn't realize he's wrong.
First, why isn't the child in a regular school system?
Assuming that he's not in public school for some reason, what system is the parents using for education? There exist full homeschooling packages that are intended to give students all the necessary resources to learn.
Assuming he's using one of those and the parents find that the chemistry in it is lacking, why not part-time enroll the child in a local school? From what I understand this isn't all that uncommon for home-schooled kids to get science instruction.
Assuming that's entirely untenable, what about hiring a private tutor for science education? Is there a local university you can contact for resources on this?
Finally, why are you asking Slashdot and not a homeschooling community?
(I'm attempting to avoid any assumptions as to the reason for home schooling.)
Bill Nye
and
Beakman's World
Hey, can't be any worse than the "education" he's received up to this point...
An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
That's blunt, but more often than not it is the truth. For the good of society, I don't like home school, because of its effect on universal education, but it is a response to a problem that nobody seem willing to correct. For Chemistry: http://www.amazon.com/Illustrated-Guide-Home-Chemistry-Experiments/dp/0596514921/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1339100841&sr=1-1
At that age, I would suggest to show them what chemistry can do: blow things up (safely), make things turn different colors, make things smell bad, or burn things (again, safely!). Then go into why the stuff is doing what it is doing. Finally, once you explained why it is doing what it is doing, see if you can change things up to come up with different effects.
Leave the boring shit about valence electrons to later. Just show him what chemistry can do. If that doesn't hook him, move on.
Those who can, do. Those who can't, sue.
(ending sentences with a proposition included)
There is, of course, no problem in ending a sentence with a preposition in English. A proposition is a different matter; how about we go back to my place.
Website
Youtube Channel
You'll enjoy watching it yourself. Very not boring.
to learning anything.
Chances are that the parents have good reasons to so. And even if they don't, someone ranting online probably won't change anything. So try to be at least a little positive and try to help this kid who certainly didn't chose this situation. To be honest it is really hard to know what will interest the child but chemicals that change color are usually fun. Try anhydrous copper sulfate to detect water for example.
One of my favorite teachers in high school was the chemistry teacher. One day, for a lab he put a several samples of elements on different tables and told us to figure out what was what. We had the lab at our disposal. You looked up various aspects of elements and tested the samples. Does it dissolve, burn, how much does it weigh, if mixed with X, Y , or Z does it react...... we had to figure it out. Lot of fun and it allowed us to explore some of the basic properties of elements and chemical reactions.
Teach them what can be made with fertilizer.
This was recommended to me at a technical conference. It's like Magic, but with elements and compounds. Not a formal education, but I think it would be a good way to test the waters regarding his interest and aptitude.
Listen, Chemistry is not like Reading Riting and Rithmetic. Chemistry is a complex science. It cannot just be suddenly dropped upon an interested 10 year old and hope it sticks. The child needs to fully understand advanced mathematics like Algebra. He must also have proficient reading comprehension because Chemistry texts are not light reading. A basic understanding of Biology would also be greatly helpful. Then there's being able to conduct basic lab experiments to help the child grasp what actually happens with chemical reactions that just can't be appreciated on paper.
That said, from your post you or whoever is available in your family is grossly unqualified to teach this subject. Heck even in schools Chemistry is not usually taught to students that young. Your grandson is already behind. You acknowledge that. If the parents are unwilling to enroll him in school, then in order to get a proper science program taught he needs to have a professional tutor brought in. Not some random tutor who knows basics, but a tutor who can teach the math concepts as well as the introductory science concepts required before he can get into Chemistry. Having someone unqualifed even attempt to teach this will fail. Further, do not rely on the internet for this. Chemistry truly requires hands on experiments to understand and appreciate it.
I'm certain you could contact the local school and try to get more information from them. It's possible the local chemistry teacher would be open to helping.
If you want to keep him interested and enthusiastic, expose him to as much chemistry as you can, while educating his teachers. Buy him chemistry sets and beginner books, and have his parents research more advanced things so they can accurately answer his questions as they come up. Take him to Science museums, the hands on kind if you can. Look for summer programs and other focused "day-camp" style STEM programs, im sure you could find some that have a chemistry focus. Even just taking him on tours of nearby chemical manufacturing plants could spark his interest.
Just remember it is your job to assist and guide, not force them to pursue something even after they loose interest (should he do so). I had parents that tried to do that with piano lessons, and it eventually turned into the worst chore i had all week.
Id also recommend getting him involved in some educational social programs, like the Boy Scouts or similar. The merit badge programs are what got me interested in all sorts of things as a kid, and these days they have badges for modern technical stuff Chemistry and Robotics and Programming and the like, not just knots and wilderness survival.
Common Sense isn't as Common as people think...
Can't be too difficult to teach the kid about fire, water, earth, and air.
"Kid can't read well, we haven't taught him any science in his homeschooling, and by the way I thought school was really boring and a shocking waste of everybody's time." Buy him a chemistry set. He'll find all the elements have one or two character names that are easy to read.
...you should take about 20 paces AWAY from his workstation whenever he starts his "learning".
If a pion (n-) collides with a proton in the woods & noone is there to hear it, does lamdba decay into the source pa
I have cousins who were homeschooled for most of their school careers. They went to public high school, though, because there are so many resources and social experiences you have there that you don't have at home. They all graduated pretty much at the top of their respective classes. I have no problem with homeschooling if you can provide an excellent education at home.
This grandchild is below-average in reading, which is obviously a crucial component of primary education. Failing at that, and not being comfortable with science, the parents are probably not qualified to be homeschooling the child. It is reasonable, then, to assume that they are not doing it because they can do a better job than the school system. That means it could easily be for religious reasons, which I believe are a terrible reason to homeschool. The submission likely would have said otherwise if that were not the reason.
ASAP....
There are two types of homeschooled students.... dumb as a rock and socially inept
or good at taking tests but can't apply what they learned into real world problem solving and are socially inept.
If you break the educational results down by state, you will see that yes, yes there are.
As long as you don't make the mistake of living outside one of the civilized zones, you can actually see results pretty similar to the wealthy bits of Europe and even parts of Asia. Certain other states, by consistently achieving results that make you wonder if they are actually telecommuting from some hellish African warzone, really drag us down...
This is an obvious failure of home "schooling". Send the kid to school. Let him learn to socialize for one, and get a well rounded education his parents apparently lack. The fact that he's had minimal science education for the first 4-5 grades of his life, is really a sad testament to this type of education.
And just because *you* hated your chemistry education doesn't mean it was bad. People tend to say things are "a waste of everyone's time" when they really mean "it's something I had no interest in / aptitude for".
My home school kids of MS/HS age are learning chemistry from a PhD chemist through our local home school group co-op. Barring access to a home school co-op, there's plenty of information and fun experiments available that should interest a 10 year old, either from online sources like youtube and google, or from books at Amazon. If you have a local science museum, you can contact them about any local science clubs/groups that cater to children that age. But unless he is more than just interested, most official curriculum is going to be at the high school level and a bit over the head of a 10 year old.
Remember the Alamo, and God Bless Texas...
There is a free educational package that is good fun - NetLogo - http://ccl.northwestern.edu/netlogo/ It has some models for chemistry in there. Basically it shows chemistry as a complex system using agent based models. But for a ten year old, it's fun because it's visual and intuitive. An idea.
For all tomorrow's virtues
I'm glad to see, judging by all the "Anonymous Coward" comments, that I'm not the only one who believes that parents that aren't specifically trained to replace the teachers their children would normally encounter in a public/private school *shouldn't* be allowed to home school. You are doing nothing but a HUGE disservice to your child(ren) by keeping them from their peers, sheltered from the world, and away from opinions that are different from yours. We all *NEED* these kinds of interactions in order to better cope with the world when we become adults and move out on our own.
If the parents that do this to their kids use the "schools aren't safe", "schools aren't teaching what I think they should be", or "schools are failing our children" excuses should *get involved* in their local school, and encourage all other parents to do the same. If their schools really are falling behind in some way, it's *THE PARENTS FAULT* for not being involved.
I specifically left out any of the varied religious excuses, as I don't believe they're valid -- religion has zero place in a publicly funded school, and should be reserved exclusively for church and home. If parents want their child to have some schooling with religious content, they need to pay to send them to such a school.
I also don't want to hear any of this "I don't have the time to get involved in (insert public school function) here" excuses. If you don't have the time to raise your kid(s) properly, DON'T HAVE THEM.
bork bork bork!
A lot of Irish were blowing stuff up in the 80's...
It doesn't sound like you or his parents are suited to school him, then. Send him to school before you ruin his life. You and/or his parents should be ashamed.
Explain basic reactions. Don't get into Moles, or math.
Give him the tools, get him to ask question and experiment.
When something happen and he want to know why, don't tell him. Show him how to find out. My kids are quite internet savey because often when they wan to know something, I'll find a good page, and read it with them. You're not lecturing, they are digging. I never said 'just cause' to my kids. when they wen through their Why phase I answered everything as accurate as reasonable, and if I didn't know, we looked it up. Every time I hear parent create a disengenious answer I cringe a little. ITwill be so hard to gte that piece of bad information out of their head.
If he is into something, have a goal related to that that can be solved with what you want to teach, in this case chemistry, then do that.
For example, maybe he is into trains. Well, what chemicals can you get to have him experiment with to make smoke?
Volcanoes? well , that's an easy one.
When he figures something out, but wan'ts it to be better, then introduce to some more complex chemistry ideas.
If you want to impress him, make some elephant toothpaste. Get your supplies from a chemistry supply place.
Mentos at soda is another great way to get them to ask question.
OTOH, if his homeschooling was done by lazy people, he may have had the why in him buried deep under a lie of belief. SO you need to gently get it back out.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
I was above average in everything. I scored above the 99th percentile on pretty much anything anyone cared to tell me I needed to learn and then test me on. And I knew the Bible, too.
u mad?
My worst teachers were the ones that seem to have had no interest in what they were teaching. Since you suggest your interest in chemistry wasn't exactly a lot, I think you will be a bad teacher.
Also, are you sure home schooling is the best option here.
Take him into the kitchen to start with the chemistry education.
A good starter video is at http://www.sciencedaily.com/videos/2009/0112-chemistry_of_cooking.htm
http://www.khanacademy.org/#chemistry
Sounds to me like home schooling is letting the kid down a bit. I loved my public Chemistry / physics education... Making rockets, playing with Science Olympiad, Egg Drop contests. I remember on the first day in my High School chem class, the teacher demonstrated infra-red radiation and the speed of light by taking a bowl filled with soap water, and a propane tap, and creating (and then lighting on fire) propane bubbles. He pointed out that as soon as you saw the flash, you felt the heat, and then went into a lecture about wave radiation and the light spectrum.
You can probably do that with your own kid, but there is something to be said about the benefits of learning something from someone who is passionate about the material.
- Holy crap, I've got MOD points! Who thought that was a good idea.
I am surprised at all the negative, bigoted reactions to homeschooling by followers of a website that is for geeks. Not all homeschooling is religious in nature. Also, not all of it is "unschooling" some parents are just concerned that the school system was not actively trying to engage their children, or where disappointed by the level of education that they saw. Heck, they could even be disappointed at the cheating that the schools are doing on the tests so that they keep their funding from the "No Child Left Behind" crap. After all, public school seems to have done all you sheeple good.
That being said, there are some good, actual answers in this thread also (tutors, part time enrollment, local universities , etc).
Although I must have had chemistry in lower levels of school, it must not have made much of an impression on me, because I cannot remember it. It didn't turn me off to chemistry, though, because I had so much fun in high school.
My advice? Don't try to do too much this early. Focus on simple chemical reactions and safety. (Rule 1. Hot glass looks exactly the same as cold glass.)
Great civilizations have lived and died on false theories. Don't mess up mine with a few facts.
Trust me - schools can make chemistry mind-numbingly dull.
I'm a bit of a chemistry geed - not much, but I do read a handful of chemistry blogs on occasion, and I can keep up more often than not. (Recommendation - "In The Pipeline", read the "Things I Won't Work With" category, for all the stuff that makes even a veteran chemist run for cover. Hilarious read.)
But my college chem classes? Literally the first time a class has been just so impossible to care about that I failed it. I think we ran *maybe* one reaction a semester, and it was usually something on the level of "mix a (weak) acid and a (weak) base, determine what salt results". Or pointing a Geiger counter at a sample so old that it was barely above background radiation.
No other class was that dull. Ever. Even my later "introduction to programming" class (aka Pseudocode 101) was more interesting, if only because I could go above-and-beyond and show off by turning in my assignments in x86-64 assembly or LISP. But Chem II? The one time I did, walking through the detonation of a thermonuclear weapon reaction-by-reaction, from the chemical explosives to the fusion reactions to the neutrons bombarding the uranium in the case. And I got an F because my pictures weren't pretty enough.
At some point, someone might tell you that if you can't keep him up to the standards of the kids who aren't home schooled, he's going to need some remedial education and possibly be required to attend public school -- and possibly lose a year in the process.
I had some cousins who were home-schooled ... and there was a curriculum they were required to have covered. And if they didn't, you weren't allowed to home-school any more and would need to transition to public school. I think for high-school or even a little before they all ended up going back to public school.
So, are you helping or him or hurting him in the long run if you can't get him through what he needs? It's difficult to teach something you don't know enough about yourself.
Lost at C:>. Found at C.
Wait... so this person is teaching it? Or the kid's parents? Or the other grandparents?
If I were going to teach chemistry to my grandkid, it would be different from trying to spark interest in chemistry. If I have grandkids someday, I'll be getting them toys like DNA/skeletal/atomic model manipulatives. My brother got a set of atom manipulatives once for school (disclaimer: I was homeschooled), and they're incredibly addicting to play with, even if you're not building molecules out of atoms and sticks. Watching videos about dropping gummy bears in potassium chloride or pouring thermite on computer hard drives helps, too.
But if I were going to teach homeschool chemistry, I'd make sure that I introduce physical science early in school (like, 9th grade), and consult my college chemistry textbook when teaching chemistry. This would be hard if you've never learned chemistry. Some homeschooling curriculums offer video courses, and some homeschool groups get together and go to an actual high school facility for these classes. I'd recommend this to anyone who hasn't had chemistry, but is faced with teaching it.
"God does not play Minecraft with the world." - Albert Einstein
Are there any home school groups in your area? Getting involved in a local home school group is a great way to get materials and resources that you don't personally have. Many groups offer courses in subjects like Chemistry for all of the families in the area in addition to group activities like choir or sports. Even smaller towns are likely to have some sort of home school group if you look for it.
Also, are you sure he doesn't read as well as his peers, or does he just not read as well as you remember kids his age reading? From my experience, if he is not reading as well as his public educated peers, there is something very wrong. My boys are home-schooled, and while they started a little "slow" for the first year due to the different approach, they rapidly moved beyond the level of most public school kids and are now pretty advanced for their age. Reading in public schools (or the lack thereof) is a joke with close to half of the students graduating not being able to read. This skill is far more important than any other because it is through reading that you can learn virtually anything else. Make sure that is a priority.
I believe in de-evolution. God made the world perfect, man fell, and its been going downhill ever since!
I don't remember studying chemistry as such when I was 10 years old and in the regular school system. I am not a teacher but I think you will find that instructional materials for chemistry are aimed at high-school age students. Not to put down 10-year-olds, but if memory serves most of them are still a bit shaky on non-integer arithmetic. I can't imagine studying chemistry without a basic grasp of algebra.
That said, there are lots of books of general "science experiments you can do at home!" Some of those experiments count as chemistry.
My advice: go to the public library and talk to the children's librarian.
[Sir Garlon] is the marvellest knight that is now living, for he destroyeth many good knights, for he goeth invisible.
Meaning no offense to Slashdotters, but I think you will also get good answers on an online forum for home-schooling parents. Surely some of them have encountered a similar situation.
[Sir Garlon] is the marvellest knight that is now living, for he destroyeth many good knights, for he goeth invisible.
Sounds like a bad ending to me.
Blank until
The child may be behind due to learning disabilities (dyslexia, etc), that many of the school systems handle very poorly. I have seen children who have made it to 3rd grade not knowing how to read due to dyslexia but the school did not know because of clueless or careless teachers, overcrowding, or lack of well handled funding.
Don't always assume that the homeschooling is due to religious reasons. After all, they did come to a geek/nerd related web site to ask, rather then a church based web site.
It's something that may prove a useful supplement to whatever you may find.
First I wanted to ask why everyone is hating on homeschooling? The current school system is so screwed up and is really turning into a prison nowadays. Look at schools in TX and CA who are trying to track our kids with GPS everyday all day. Or in PA who hand out tax paid for laptops and then freaking spy on the kids and in some cases while they shower. Theres many examples of why I refuse to allow my kids in this current school system. Not to mention finger printing to get your lunch you know useing biometrics cause its the cool tech thing to do. At some point it will be abused and everyone will ask how did that happen. Nothing wrong with finger scanning to get lunch when entering a pin would be so much harder for a child to remember. Anyways I could go on for hours on this. If anyone wants more examples I have many many more. So with that said most home school kids do way better then their counterpart in academics. I know someone will say ya but what about socializing your kids etc. When I went to school I got in trouble for talking in class alot and remember my mom telling me that I went to school to learn not socialize. Funny how everyone says your kids have to now. Besides dont we have enough socialist already. I need to recommend a book thats free online now and its called---- THE DELIBERATE DUMBING DOWN OF AMERICA. Do yourself a favor if you have kids and read or even skim over it as it is important and will open your eyes. I believe it was written by Mrs Reggan but dont quote me on that.
As for the science stuff in the 80's there was an old guy on PBS that I used to love watching. He would do all sorts of experiments and thats what got me interested in science. Im sure someone knows of whom Im talking about and chime in with the name. Thats a great start for any kid into science and chemistry.
You must have had really poor teachers. There are SO many ways of making chemistry fun, and not all of them involve hard-to-get chemicals. You can start out with just boiling water on a bunsen burner to teach him some safety procedures and tell him about the different states of matter. Sounds boring? My 12-year-olds loved it. Molecule models are fun to build. You can do all sorts of fun tricks with indicators of pH (like water that turns red, then transparent, then red again). You can blow up a hydrogen balloon (use a match on a stick!) and if you want to make it extra fun add some aluminum or iron powder in the balloon. Mix an alcohol with an acid and get an ester. Soap bubbles are fun. Baking soda and water is fun. Lemon batteries are fun. Stuff that burns is always fun, no matter what. Stuff that flies is always fun, no matter what. Even trite knowledge like the periodic table can be made fun with rhymes or the like.
The Internet is your friend. Check out some Youtube videos. Ask on a teachers' forum. Search the web. The tricky part is seldom finding fun things to do, but rather to do them in the right order and connect the experiment to the actual chapter you're teaching. You also have to remember that abstract material like protons, neutrons and electrons can be challenging to a young kid. Check out a curriculum to get an idea about what subjects to teach at what age.
http://www.khanacademy.org/#chemistry
Have his level 85 Paladin drop Enchanting (which is not based in real life) and learn Alchemy. The combination of various materials should teach him the Chemistry he needs.
If you're anywhere near Albuquerque, you should try to get Walter White as a tutor.
I think High School chemistry is a test to make sure that only people who really care about chemistry try to go on and do it. What other reason could their be for months and months of tedious math and no labs? And then you do give them a lab and it's incredibly lame--heat up a piece of metal in a flame, write a minimum of 8 pages (not including graphics) report on which parts of the flame are the hottest using the color of the metal. The number of kids interested in Chem II after that were in the single digits.
I read the internet for the articles.
Let him learn to socialize for one, and get a well rounded education
By "socialize" you mean, get taunted for his slowness in reading, and get beaten down by the kids until all interest in anything dies.
Sounds awesome.
As for a well-rounded education, that's exactly why you would homeschool. The public schools teach to tests, not to understanding, or learning how to learn.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Meth lab!
As a student of the US education system, I can personally attest to the problems of the public system. I didn't fail any of my classes, perfect attendance for years, and in my senior year I was told I would be there again next year. Turns out those 'qualified educators' scheduled and taught me classes, but not the ones needed to meet state requirements, my parents pulled me out and I finished that year in a private school taking independent study.
Now I have a 8 year old boy who seems fine to me in second grade, that is until the 4th nine weeks and 2 suspensions from school. One for eating his sandwich into the shape of a gun, then later that day making "finger guns", and going "pew pew" like boys do. They said he was threatening the school with violence. Two weeks before he was suspended for "not keeping his hands to himself" I asked the teacher and found out he was trying to play tag at recess.
I have zero tolerance for zero tolerance school policies.
FYI all of this occurred in the Florida, Treasure Coast area.
I don't know if this even exists or not, but I think it would be helpful to have a software package that can visualize compounds, electron transfers, maybe simulate simple reactions. I learn a lot from just playing with stuff, but it's hard with chemistry because it requires many specialized equipments, dangerous chemicals, lab area, etc... So having a software package that would let me "play" around with various things I think would have helped tremendously in learning chemistry. Just doing a quick Google search reveals this package which looks kinda cool:
Virtual Lab Simulation
Naturally this would need to be accompanied by some textbooks, online instruction, etc... but I think it would be a huge help...
A lot of Irish were blowing stuff up in the 80's...
This made me laugh uncontrollably, then feel bad for doing so...
An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
Of course, it requires motivated, non-dumbfuck parents.
I've had a variety of home-schooled Airmen as subordinates in the Air Force and they did as well or better than the conventionally-schooled folks. They were technically proficient at aircraft maintenance and good learners and workers.
Even religious parents (and if you've seen my other posts you know I despise superstition!) can do a good job challenging their kids and exposing them to (shock, horror) science.
There are some HORRID local public schools from which I agree home schooling can rescue children. It's legit to do that, but in that case the parents should seek tutors to do what they aren't equipped to do.
Contact a local college. There may be students who will work cheap for some extra cash off the books.
"This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
Why is this rated troll?
If he reads below grade level and none of his current teachers feel qualified to teach him, maybe he should go to school to be taught by qualified folks.
Home schooling should not even be an option if you are not qualified to teach the subjects the child needs or cannot bring in someone else to do so.
But then we'd missed the opportunity to SLAUGHTER THE STRAWMAN!!!
Yes, the lack of reading ability is a poor sign, but not necessarily proof that the parents are slacking. My sister can read very well, but it took a lot of blood, sweat, and tears from my mom to get her there (my siblings and I were home schooled, obviously). If you had looked at her development at 9 or 10, you might have reached the same conclusion (parents are incompetent and/or don't care)... but neither were true. It just took a lot of time and effort with her, more than it did with my brother and more than it would take for most children her age. That skews results.
Your logic as to why the parents are doing it for religious reasons is also highly suspect. Even if the parents are incompetent, there's no reason to assume that they would recognize that (or that they wouldn't think the school system more incompetent even if they did recognize it). The parents believing they can do better is still absolutely a reasonable possibility, given what we know.
"16MB (fuck off, MiB fascists)" - The Mighty Buzzard
All of my children are in a home school program to specifically achieve the following:
* Dramatically improved science curriculum over state requirements.
* Aggressive reading and mathematics programs.
* Enhanced educational environment (a quiet, well equipped classroom).
* Teachers who really care, and want each child to be able to compete in a demanding global economy as adults. We love our students like parents should, because we are both.
In order to teach my nine year old chemistry, I do not have to be an expert chemist. I simply have to know more than a nine year old does about chemistry. It really isn't that hard, and it has been fun for all of us to expand our knowledge. If you are going to engage in home education, you can't do it sitting on the sidelines. You have to educate yourself first. Then you can teach. Expect more from the teacher than you do the student.
If none of the above is happening for your grandson, consider placing that child in public school. Many public education options are abysmal. If results from home education are worse than the public option, consider that a major red flag. Your benchmark should be a grade or two ahead in most subjects (unless the child has a learning disability).
Teaching at home doesn't work for everyone. It isn't always the ideal solution. I wish I had a bazillion and one dollars to hire private instructors with decades of experience to do the teaching. There is no doubt, though, that what we are doing is working. All of my children, even the ones who struggle, placed in the top 5% in the last round of state required testing. They are not geniuses. They simply know how to work. Something their peers tend to have a hard time with.
Correllation is not indicitive of causation.
While there is a strong (oh yes, so very strong) correllation between homeschooling and religious jesus brainwashing camps passing as education, this is not always the case.
In this case, the submitter want to know if there is a way to teach chemistry without putting the kid into an environment that they found to be an epic waste of time.
Here's a winner:
Learn chemistry *with* the child.
The internet is for so much more than seeing angelina joelee's boobs.
As a chemistry fettishist myself, here's a basic curriculum to help you get started:
Week 1:
History of modern chemistry, dark ages to late 1920s.
Origins of atomic theory, (avagadro, ideal gas laws, etc.)
The periodic table of elements, and its history and properties. (Molar quantities, valence energy levels, history of radium and the discovery of radioactivity, island of stability, etc.)
Lab safety.
Proper disposal techniques.
Identification of standard lab hardware, and their uses, handling, cleaning, and storage.
Week 2:
Introduction to stoichiometric chemistry.
Lewis acids and lewis bases, (and history of such classifications)
Types of bond, degree of strength of bond energy, electronegativity,orbitals and their structures and properties.
Indicators.
pH testing, how it works, and why it is important.
Basic lab processes for mixing acids and bases.
Titration lab
Definition of "salt".
Lab on determining molarity.
Pyrolisis
Week 3:
Basic introduction to carbon.
Indroduction to common organic molecules and functional groups. (Ether, saccharides, alcohols, alkanes, etc.)
Week 4:
Synthesis of a complex organic compound. (Something like nylon maybe.)
Introduction to catalysts.
Introduction to enzymes.
Introduction to proteins.
Introduction to organic polymers.
After week 4, the kid will either have lost interest, or will be sufficently hooked to ingest chemistry directly from the internet, with some mentoring and tutoring. It is also a higher level of education touchstones than most adults get into. If you set strong academic goals and tests for your student, they will flat hammer a traditionally schooled student of pre-college chemistry on every state exam.
Don't withold imformation or cool knowledge "because they are a kid." You want the kid to hunger for more, not wean them off science. Gorge him with it instead.
You selected classes that would not earn you the requirements to graduate then you blame the teachers?
A high school senior should be able to take care of these kinds of things.
Your 8 year old should either be put into another school, or taught the realities of todays school system. Your whining is not helping anything.
Unless he has physical developmental issues that affect his mental capabilities, send him to school, get his reading level up.
I get it, ignorance is bliss and everyone wants to protect their ignorance and shrink their world as small as they need to, so they can make sure they
stay right.
He's clearly not getting the education he deserves, is falling behind everyone. Parents need to have major motivation and dedicate a lot of time to compete with a half decent school.
The fact that you're on slashdot with a statement that he doesn't read as well as other kids his age shows the problem.
It's great that you're trying to step forward and help, but yeah, send him to school.
Khan Academy is the best free online education site. It comes as YouTube videos and the guy the best in expalining any thing for any age group.
Check it out:
http://www.khanacademy.org/
"He is home educated and doesn't read as well as schooled kids of his age. "
I think religious reasons are a fine reason to homeschool. I'd rather they deal with those personal matters at home, instead of demanding the public schoolteachers waste time acknowledging or debating their particular flavor of pseudo-science. And for the path those kids are likely to end up on, which might be theology or music or church administration, it's a perfectly adequate education.
No, a religious homeschooling is not setting those kids up for careers teaching biology or any of the sciences, but with a belief structure like that at home, those kids probably weren't going to end up contributing to the field anyway.
John
The grandfather came to Slashdot, not the parents. He, at least, is probably somewhat technical and informed.
Although, I notice now that he seems to be from Wales. I don't know the reasons people homeschool there. Perhaps you are correct.
You are doing nothing but a HUGE disservice to your child(ren) by keeping them from their peers, sheltered from the world
Sheltered? Who is more sheltered, a kid that interacts with adults every day learning in the real world, or one that simply lives to avoid attack by the pack of adolescents they are forced into?
On Slashdot of all places we should welcome and embrace the idea that kids may well and truly be better off being with adults more often than children, until they reach a more mature age. But I guess it depends on if you want a mature mental state, or a childish one...
I was home-schooled all through junior high and high school. It let me figure out what I wanted to do before college. It gave me a sense of self-esteem that I did not have in school before. It gave me willpower to make my own choices instead of doing what everyone else did.
That was invaluable, and I maintain that every single child that can be home schooled should be. There is literally NOTHING a parent could do worse than most public schools will do with kids minds, and with the internet to help you with coursework you can easily equal a public school education.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
You know being a site full of geeks and nerds I thought someone would of said this earlier. The World of Chemistry: 26 high school/college level videos. While a 10 year old will not be able to understand all of it, one thing they will understand is that chemistry can be cool. ya know with stuff burning and exploding and stuff.
http://www.learner.org/resources/series61.html?pop=yes&pid=795
They also have stuff on
Physics
Math
History
Economics
Psychology
etc
The first step is to help your grandson get his reading back in shape. Go Google homeschooler forums for reading programs; there are a lot of problem readers who flourish in homeschooling because they can find the right solution for THEM, not for the particular school district or reading tudor in question. Boys taking longer to read or write "well" is common; just be sure that he doesn't need glasses or doesn't have an undiagnosed reading disorder.
Both of my kids loved Apologia Science. Get your grandson the General Science curriculum (https://apologia.securesites.net/store/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=2), and purchase both the book set and the multimedia CD. The multimedia CD is wonderful for interactive learners on the computer. The experiments include chemistry labs, and use household chemicals.
Most everyone I know taking the class has run it over 2 years, so there's nothing wrong with starting early and taking a while.
Fair warning: Wile is a young-earth creationist, and doesn't hide it. If you consider this position unacceptable, you're going to have to find someone else's book.
Maybe they want their child to have a better education. When I was home-schooled for two years, I learned faster and more than I could have in public school. When I started public school again, the school wanted me to skip ahead a grade. I wish I could have been home-schooled my whole childhood.
About the original question, there are home-school co-ops out there that might be able to help. Also, I have known some home-schoolers to go to public school part-time and do the rest of their classes at home. In the later years, some home-schoolers take classes at the local community college for dual credit.
this idea was already knocked around in the first posts and replies. first we don't RTFA, then we don't read the summary, and now we don't read the posts. we just sound off to see if there's an echo.
insensitive clod overlords obligatory xkcd car analogy russian reversals whoosh pedant fanbois ftfy in 3...2...1..PROFIT
Really. Religious folks don't contribute to scientific discovery? Um...while I get your general point that religion and science are often at odds among the especially dogmatic (on both sides), maybe you need a refresher in history...you seemed to have skipped the chapters that discuss the advancement of civilization over the last 25,000 years.
As is very common. I was asked to give a general science lesson to a class of Nepali schoolchildren, about 25 of them around 14 years old. I was only in for one class as a bit of a novelty for them, so I asked what they wanted to learn in the hour. The first response, and a very enthusiastic one, was "how do you make a bomb?"
Finding bomb making chemicals in Nepal isn't exactly difficult, so I went with nuclear (fission) devices. That lets you cover the basics of atoms, radioactivity, E=mc^2, chain reactions, a whole bunch of interesting physics, but without the worry that they're going to pop out and buy some U235 or Plutonium.
So I'd suggest a similar approach - find out why the kid is interested in chemistry and work from there. There will probably be a whole lot of "well, before you can understand X you need to know a little about Y...", but if the kid can see the end result of the study then it gives them a little more incentive and interest.
Chemistry experiments I enjoyed as a child:
Growing copper sulphate crystals and/or crystal gardens.
pH testing
Custard powder bombs (under supervision!)
Non-Newtonian fluids (custard again)
Acid/Alkali reactions (the usual volcano)
Producing Hydrogen by reaction or electrolysis and making it go POP!
Please consider this account deleted, I just can't be bothered with the spam anymore.
That reminds me of what happened in one of my science classes. The teacher had a wife in graduate school for psychology. She wanted to do an experiment about how expectations can change what people do. So, they got permission before the semester even started for everyone taking the class. For the setup, the people in my class were doing an experiment to show that chemical reactions don't change atoms, so even after they react, they are still radioactive. He waived a Geiger counter above a sample and gave the entire class the reading. He then handed out the preprepared samples to everyone. The groups mixed them together. He then handed the Geiger counter around to record readings. However, some people were given reactants that were not radioactive, they just looked like the stuff and so did the products. Part of the lab report was whether the readings changed between reactants and product and the like. At the end of the experiment they collected everything from us.
The next day, the teacher made the big reveal. My group was the only one given an inert sample that correctly reported the results. Every other group that was given inert reactants reported radioactive products. He gave a somewhat forlorn speech that he could believe that so many students lied like that. Of course, it later turned out that was to prime us for a different part of his wife's experiment.
It seem ambitious to go from no chemistry to organic chemistry in 4 weeks. The student is 10.
If the parents don't feel comfortable teaching the subject matter, they should find a trained professional to do so. The best place to find these professionals is at a place called a school.
The best part is the state provides you access to these schools for free.
because we need more 10 year olds who can produce thermite. more than we need mature adults, too, it seems.
insensitive clod overlords obligatory xkcd car analogy russian reversals whoosh pedant fanbois ftfy in 3...2...1..PROFIT
I have seen children who have made it to 3rd grade not knowing how to read due to dyslexia but the school did not know because of clueless or careless teachers
Please be aware that teachers are not allowed to make those kinds of determinations. My wife is a 2nd grade teacher - with a masters degree in special education from a very prestigious university - and is required to refer students to the administration for screening. If the parents don't want their obviously autistic child tested, it doesn't happen. A lot of parents don't want their child labeled with a learning disability, even it it will help them in the long run.
So don't blame the teachers.
:wq
He was improperly advised. Not his fault. Or do you believe that all students should read the educational requirements laws for their state and assume their advisers, the professionals doing that job for money, are incorrect? I'm sorry, but I usually assume that professionals know what they're doing in order to save my sanity.
His eight-year-old should be allowed to be an eight-year-old and his school should be chastised for its foolish zero-tolerance policies. The rampant CYA and zero tolerance are more destructive than that which they attempt to prevent.
*Look for science clubs/classes in the community. We had one through our park district. There are also summer camps at most unis, if there is money for it and he proves interested.
*There are lot of home kitchen chemistry experiments that are fun. Like red cabbage pH detection. And oobleck (the non-Newtonian fluid of cornstarch and water). Also, get him to do a unit on crystals with sugar (rock candy), salt, and a variety of other materials.
*Consider fun related things as well. Like model rocketry (explosion type chemicals!). And DNA extraction from fruit is very easy (we did this for a bunch of girl scouts in that age group and it worked nicely, though it's mostly gooey). Definitely talk about kitchen chemistry (everyone should know the maillard reaction, and things like which ingredients in a cake can make them fluffy). Get some pH paper and do an environmental unit on acid rain.
*Get him an organic chemistry model kit to build/play with. They are fun. Ideally, hire a uni student to sit him down and how him what they mean a bit, and also show him how to use something like ChemDraw (or at least give him an appreciation for what kinds of modeling is possible).
*Get a formal chemistry set, but only if he has an adult who wants to supervise it.
*Play him "Meet the Elements" by They Might be Giants, and the elements song by Tom Leher.
For future reference:
*Get the cartoon guide to chemistry, he'll grow into it http://www.amazon.com/Cartoon-Guide-Chemistry-Larry-Gonick/dp/0060936770/ref=pd_sim_t_42. Also, Asimov on chemistry is still fun once he gets the reading up.
*Make sure his algebra is sound.
Skipping all the religious nut accusations, I'm going to focus on the one thing I think should be addressed RIGHT NOW for this child. Reading. You say he doesn't read as well as other children his age, and this concerns me. That is absolutely not typical of well home-schooled children. My niece was reading chapter books at 3, got her black belt at 12, and is enrolling in college courses at 15. She's an incredible artist, and has taken a number of community art courses. Her brother isn't far behind. He was reading chapter books at 6, got his black belt at 10, is very active in local little league baseball, and will be enrolling in college courses himself as soon as he decides what he wants to learn more about that he can't get at Kahn. Smart money says it'll have to do with Engineering.
Before you ask, their mother (my sister) did not go to college, nor did she attend any secondary school. She didn't load up on extracurricular activities in school, and she didn't marry into an intellectual family. Her husband is an MBA, but he directs their learning far less than my sister. It's not impossible for a high school grad to learn how to do it right, but it's not easy to actually *do* it right. You have to be willing to let them go learn. Both children are far more outgoing with people of all ages and flavors than most adults I know. They are well spoken, polite, and fit well into almost any civilized conversation.
Get your grandson to read. That's critical at this point. Throw the chores out the window if you have to, let him skip church to read, let him read all night in bed (for now), but put something in his hand that will engross him. Harry Potter, The Hunger Games, Artemis Fowl, *anything* by Rick Riordon, just get that kid reading something besides the bible. Now is NOT the time to censor his reading, it's time to let it go. All the books mentioned above are great for pre-teens and young adults, though perhaps the Hunger Games could wait a year or so.
And mark my words, if religious censorship is the reason he hasn't read these books already, then I'm guessing chemistry is not going to be a good choice anyway. Too much science, not enough faith.
Home schooled children don't have to be idiot god-botherers, and they don't have to be idiot hippies. They can be very intelligent, creative, and amazing. But only if their parents *LET* them. Don't direct their learning, EMPOWER it. There's a big difference.
Why do they need to be home schooled? It would be better to be in a real chemistry lab with tables and proper equipment that a home can't really afford. Learning to be social might be an important benefit. Even if the teachers aren't as smart as the parents -- which happened with me -- you have to learn to deal with people other than your parents anyway. If it's the case that as you say he doesn't read as well as other kids his age, the kindest thing you could do for him is to get him out of the home environment. Trying to work around the problems may not be helpful in the end.
welfare can lead to cooking crack, which is also chemistry...
insensitive clod overlords obligatory xkcd car analogy russian reversals whoosh pedant fanbois ftfy in 3...2...1..PROFIT
In the dark ages, people married at 14.
A 10 year old is surprisingly suitable for a very stunning amount of complex information. Humans are far better at learning than you seem to believe.
It is a myth that sentences can't end in propositions. How else would business deals get made?
When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
you can use it to promote his reading skills. I can't think of anything more dangerous than a chemist who can't read.
If you use the current single pot method, its more like baking then chemistry. Besides you don't have to understand the process behind why you 'mix a with b and heat'. It just means you can follow directions..
I guess baking is still a good skill to have, as most people like to eat.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
It is reasonable, then, to assume that they are not doing it because they can do a better job than the school system. That means it could easily be for religious reasons, which I believe are a terrible reason to homeschool. The submission likely would have said otherwise if that were not the reason.
How did you manage to go from
1) It could be religious reasons
to
2) It's probably religious reasons because the submitter didn't say otherwise?
The Daddy casts sleep on the Baby. The Baby resists!
...worrying about chemistry, if the kid can't read. Get him some competent, intensive reading tutoring immediately. I encountered a kid who couldn't read in a freshman chem lab I once taught. I couldn't have been more aghast if he'd just stepped out of a space ship.
I guess the school pupils who can't read somewhat redeem the homeschools that can't read, but all those responsible should all be ashamed.
Because all religious people wind up working for churches? I did not grow up in a religious home, however I am a theist. I'm also an engineer. The idea that religious people somehow do not or cannot contribute to society is weird at best. In fact there are other engineers on my team who are also theists and they do an excellent job. One coming to a logical conclusion that there is a God does not correlate to their ability to do work.
Now my daughter is being home schooled. Not for religious reasons but because public schools teaches to the lowest common denominator. If she was going to public school, she would be in pre-school, but she already reads, adds, subtracts, multiplies, does simple algebra (2 times duck = 2 ducks) and has basic science concepts. The only place she is lacking is writing (she writes like a kindergartner) and history/government. But she's only 5 and Kindergarten doesn't even teach that. So this weird concept on Slashdot that th== dumb is plain academic intolerance in action.
If the child's education is suffering at home, why is he being home educated ?
My chemistry teacher blew stuff up too. His hand, among other things. (Un?)fortunately it was not in front of my class.
What FA are you speaking of? There isn't one here. Also in the summary, or the "Ask Slashdot" question, it points out that the child is currently, after being homeschooled, a below average reader. That nugget of information makes it sound like the homeschoolers are not competent teachers, which asks the question "Why are they homeschooling"?
Why are people who are asking this question in a brusk manner being moderated "troll"?
My early chemistry researches were finding household chemicals that could blow things up. I found them. YMMV
True that! These days I would have been locked up in Gitmo before I was 14, and I was a Boy Scout. Do you know how many interesting things a 12 year old can do with a nearly unlimited supply of carbide? I knew how to generate hydrogen for explosive balloons using household chemicals such as Drano. I learned about oxidizing agents using KClO3 fertilizer, which was pretty easy to get. I didn't learn how to make thermite until I got into high school though. That's the kind of stuff that got and kept me interested in science.
Some mornings it's hardly worth chewing through the restraints to get out of bed.
Yeah, when I was in high school I had an adviser. We met with the adviser at the beginning of each school year when selecting classes.
Turns out those 'qualified educators' scheduled and taught me classes, but not the ones needed to meet state requirements.
Sounds like an adviser scheduled his classes and scheduled them inadequately.
What makes you think complaining can't change anything? How do you think things got changed to where finger guns are an actionable offense in the first place?
Well, you can teach him to make things that blow-up and things that burn through counter-tops. Thatt ought to maintain the attention and interest of a ten-year-old boy, for many years to come!
Seriously, try Aurora Lipper's site. She produces age-level appropriate, experimental science education for home schoooling and kid's programmes.
http://www.superchargedscience.com/
Science teachers, in underfunded districts use this, too.
"Flyin' in just a sweet place,
Never been known to fail..."
If Iyou're going to teach chemical synthesis to a home-schooled kid... the obvious complex organic compound to start with is methamphetamine!
The whole family can participate.
My child attends a public school district which devotes considerable resources to the K-2 grade to ensure that every child leaves second grade with the ability to read at grade level. We have been told by numerous teachers that children need to learn to read FIRST so that they can spend the rest of their lives reading to learn. It doesn't even matter if the child has a learning disability or is autistic or any faces any other obstacle. As a parent, when you chose to home school your child, your first responsibility was to ensure his ability to read. You have failed.
This is an obvious troll submission to make home schooling look bad and to incite an argument between people that think home schooling is inadequate and the small fringe of people that actually home school properly.
While I personally think that most (not all) home schooled kids are left behind (because most are home schooled because parents are too clingy and incapable of teaching), I don't buy the obvious troll in the submission.
He's home schooled, and not good at reading, science, etc. What do you think about that, slashdot?
God, fuck off with the "editors" of this site.
So, are you comparing marriage to blowing things up? On second thought, I do see similarities.
Slow down, cowboy! It has been 4 hours since you last posted. You must wait another few hours.
But this kid can't even read at his age level...
Cooking is chemistry and so is making stuff go up in smoke. Start off by finding what the kid likes and explain the fundamentals of technicolour physics.
How does and engine work?
How do fireworks go off?
What happens when you put iron in water?
Oil?
Dirty water?
Water that has been boiled?
Wrapped in a little aluminium?
Then there is electrolysis and making electricity. More fundamental black & white physics but still good for the kid to grasp elements and the rest of it.
Try turning a pieces of nickel into a piece of copper.
Making a pair of carbon rods light with coins or washers. (A bit above his age group maybe. But how about dissecting a flat battery?
Or making his own carbon rods?
What metals or carbon clay mixes can he write with. What can he make crayons and paint out of?
Take him down to a scrap yard and root around for different metals with him, for him to play with. (While you are at it, take some old hard drives and loudspeakers apart and show him the magnets. Kids love magnets at any age. Show him how to dismantle stuff.)
Showing him how different oils behave in air. Making paint. Dissolving things in other things. Stay away from the maths and crap like that; just open his eyes to the wonder of it all. If he gets the bug, he will want to teach himself more, later. The first thing he needs to learn about chemistry is how dangerous some chemicals are. So start with bleach and whatever you have in the garage.
And make sure he knows about special clothing for messing with stuff and about hygiene and safe storage. And not working alone. That could be VERY dangerous.
Good luck.
One thing my mom did that really helped my reading skills growing up was starting a book reports for cash program, where I could read up to 2 books each week (100+ TEXT pages) and write a full page book report for an extra $5, which was a great way to save up for all the video games I wanted since I only got $5 a week for my regular "chores allowance".
As for the chemistry, 10 is a bit too young for abstract concepts, so visualization and examples of real work applications are key! A rock/gem collection can be helpful in showing how the differences in crystalline structures and trace elements can cause such varying (and beautiful) colors and consistencies.
I started teaching myself chemistry in 7th grade out of the typical adolescent fascination with danger (Explosives & Flammables, Poisons, Drugs, Radioactivity, Etc). By 8th grade I had memorized the periodic table, which by itself isn't much use but being so familiar with the Periodic table helped greatly in understanding the more abstract concepts when I got to High School level Chemistry. You might also try telling him you'll pay him a $1 per element if I can memorize and recite the entire table ($118 well spent if you ask me). Its kind of like memorizing State Names and Capitols.
The simple fact that the kid can't read and no one appears to be qualified to teach him shows that the kid needs someone qualified to teach him. I support home schooling so long as you are able to create a learning environment where your child excels but the first thing you say is he can't read as well as other kids in normal school. Clearly the public schools are doing something better than the home school is. You need to stop worrying about chemistry and worry about getting the kid a proper education.
This. All of it. Unless you have the resources (personal knowledge or access to the necessary materials) you shouldn't be trying to home-school your kids. If it's obvious they're falling behind their schooled peers, that should be a wakeup call. This isn't going to kill the kid, but it's seriously hurting his opportunities later in life. Think about your kid's future here.
Unless you want him to wind up an unskilled factory drone (or worse) later in life, get him properly schooled. He's probably two or so years behind on the average, and is going to require some summer school / private tutoring just to play catch-up. Get it done now before you dig him into a deeper hole. Considering your resources, if you're still deadset-insistant on home-schooling, you are going to need to hire a private tutor to fix and then complete his education.
I work for the Department of Redundancy Department.
God told him so?
So the adults in this kids life have decided he should be home schooled but he does not read as well as other kids his age. Given this situation you think he should learn chemistry? If parents are too dumb to teach their kids and refuse to send them to the crappy public school system, I would recommend calling social services and having the kid removed from his home?
In the dark ages, to a good approximation, nobody did organic chemistry.
Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
The child may be behind due to learning disabilities (dyslexia, etc), that many of the school systems handle very poorly. I have seen children who have made it to 3rd grade not knowing how to read due to dyslexia but the school did not know because of clueless or careless teachers, overcrowding, or lack of well handled funding.
Don't always assume that the homeschooling is due to religious reasons. After all, they did come to a geek/nerd related web site to ask, rather then a church based web site.
And yet, most children with these disabilities can get special help when in the public school system. Sure, there is always a chance that they don't get the help they need immediately, but they do get it eventually. Doesn't sound like this kid has a chance of getting it at all.
Quartz Extreme and Core Image. Are there any other real reasons to spend all that money on generic hardware?
As a home-schooling dad of 5 kids, I can't agree more with this post. In my experience, the typical home-schooler is a voracious reader, and to a large degree teaches himself through reading. If this young man is 10 but is below grade-level or just plain disinterested in reading, then this is going to be a huge barrier in his schooling (home-schooling or not).
Protect your browser with the Force Safe Search add-on
Your point is? Not much more than 100 years ago most adults couldn't read.
http://chemistry.about.com/od/onlinecourses/Online_Chemistry_Courses.htm
Either that or the grandchild has some disabilities causing both his below-average learning ability and the need for home-schooling.
Slashdot social media options: AIM, ICQ, Yahoo, Jabber and Mobile Text. Why no MySpace?
Call the CPS
Seven Lies about Homeschoolers: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJHt-m3VX6o
"The real world" is full of difficult social interactions. "The real world" is full of packs of adolescent minded adults and group-thinking.
Difficult interactions, yes. But mostly at the adult level.
Adolescent interactions, sometimes. But not nearly as often. And if you the adult in those interactions you fare far better.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
How did you manage to go from
1) It could be religious reasons to 2) It's probably religious reasons because the submitter didn't say otherwise?
I made the assumption that the submitter knew the audience and would have tried to avoid the anti-religious trolling / flamewar if possible. I did not recognize at the time that he was not American, and perhaps the homeschooling in his area doesn't have such a significant anti-science contingent.
The last thing the kid needs is a chemistry experiment gone wrong blinding or disfiguring him. Teaching chemistry should be left to experts. Also, are they going to pony up for the equipment? And is buying the equipment going to put you on a watchlist? The tutor might actually have his own equipment.
Those illiterate adults approximately 100 years ago wouldn't have any knowledge of chemistry, either.
My point: if the kid can't even read adequately there's little chance he'll be mastering organic chemistry in four weeks.
It's because of this book that I remember pretty much everything I learned in high school chemistry:
http://www.amazon.com/Chemical-Demonstrations-Handbook-Teachers-Chemistry/dp/0299088901
Start with the "Oxidation of Luminol" -- how to make your own glow-in-the-dark chemiluminescent solution.
(All 3 volumes are good -- some of the experiments are dangerous -- use due caution)
(Seeing Prof. Shakhashiri in action is also pretty cool: http://scifun.chem.wisc.edu/
Check out his Experiments You can Do at Home"
)
I think you're missing the forest for the trees. Yes, of course, "religious" people contribute to scientific discovery, and have throughout history. However, religious people aren't all the same, and the ones who are the bulk of the home-schoolers in this country (USA; note that the original poster is from the UK so a lot of this probably doesn't apply to him, but this discussion has certainly centered on USA-specific stuff) are of a certain group of religious sects that definitely do NOT contribute to science in any way, unless you count "Creation Science" as a science (it isn't). The religious people who are big into science aren't home schooling their kids, by and large.
Now, of course, there's always exceptions. Not everyone home schools because of fundamentalist religious beliefs; there's some out there who do it because the public schools suck, they don't think their kids will get the care they need (some kids need extra tutoring to keep up in certain subjects at certain points for some reason), or lately they don't want their kids going to what basically amounts to a prison, complete with armed police who will arrest any kid who acts up. Just in the past decade, the USA has gotten to be an extremely bad and dangerous place to send your kids to school. The slightest infraction can result in an arrest, having to appear in court, and hefty fines, plus a permanent record for your kid.
Khan Academy has a good series of ten-minute instructional videos about the theory of chemistry and organic chemistry, starting from first principles, this would be a good place to start.
http://www.khanacademy.org/#chemistry
http://www.khanacademy.org/#organic-chemistry
There are many online university lectures, which might be a little too advanced for a 10 year old, but they available anyway:
http://www.academicearth.org/subjects/chemistry
http://www.youtube.com/ (Search for long >20 minute videos)
https://www.coursera.org/ (Doesn't offer chemistry yet, but may do in the future)
I myself missed out a large part of my formal education and as a result became mostly self-taught. Being homeschooled means you don't have any deadlines or exams to worry about. The core thing to maintain is curiosity (the willingness to ask questions) and the confidence ans skills to go about answering them for yourself. Google is your biggest friend!
The approach is very different from structured learning. Pick a question, a project or a task. Jump in at the deep end, google the question directly, even its is rather advanced. The explanation will probably be full of alien words and concepts that you don't fully understand and simply raise up an even bigger pile of questions. So pick the first of these new questions, and keep drilling down until you have a good enough understanding of each word or concept that you can start to make sense of the original answer to the original question. Rather than trying to cover a pre-defined syllabus in sequential order and to a given timetable, you are aiming to drill down to whatever level of detail is needed in order to have the clarity required to answer the question you are interested in. It seems slow at first, but by the time you have fully answered your first proper question, you will have already covered half the syllabus. Age then becomes irrelevant and as long as you keep asking questions, you never stop learning.
Sugata Mitra has an interesting take on the power of simply giving children the tools to teach themselves:
http://www.ted.com/talks/sugata_mitra_the_child_driven_education.html
http://www.ted.com/talks/sugata_mitra_shows_how_kids_teach_themselves.html
As the parents and the grandparents are not confident in teaching the subject, maybe you should turn the tables, set the 10 year kid the challenge of teaching the grandparents how do "French Cooking" (as it was once known).
Assuming the parents have a good reason for homeschooling the child even though they aren't sufficiently skilled themselves, nobody can really give a good answer without knowing a bit more about these reasons.
Are they medical requirements, mental disabilities, behavioural issues, etc.? No need to know the details, just in what way it affects the grandchilds' ability to be educated.
That being said, I personally prefer chemistry theory above some gimmicky practical trick that shows you what happens when X is mixed with Y, without explaining anything about why it happens. Ideally you'd have theoretical chemistry which allows you to predict things, then being able to test those predictions in reality. But that pretty much goes for any science field; predicting based on theory then proving it in practice is just extremely satisfying. I'm afraid that would require a skilled chemist and well-prepared lesson plan though, well above the skills of anybody I know.
Slashdot social media options: AIM, ICQ, Yahoo, Jabber and Mobile Text. Why no MySpace?
As a homeschooler, I:
* Went on field trips a few times a week to learn things on location somewhere.
* Spent a lot of time with friends who were neighbors after they were released from school for the day.
* Yes, sometimes I even talked to or learned things from my parents.
* Played sports on a team in a home-schooling sports league.
* Wrote and sold a guide book for the game "Dungeon Master" in collaboration with another adult who was a writer.
Basically, I interacted with the world while my friends were in a zoo. It does not mean I did not interact with kids my own age, or the only adults I ever saw were my parents.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
I think religious reasons are a fine reason to homeschool. I'd rather they deal with those personal matters at home, instead of demanding the public schoolteachers waste time acknowledging or debating their particular flavor of pseudo-science. And for the path those kids are likely to end up on, which might be theology or music or church administration, it's a perfectly adequate education.
No, a religious homeschooling is not setting those kids up for careers teaching biology or any of the sciences, but with a belief structure like that at home, those kids probably weren't going to end up contributing to the field anyway.
One of my best friends, a devout Christian (elder in his church, etc) who has devout Christian parents, was homeschooled. He did his PhD at MIT and a post-doc at another fairly prestigious university. He's currently a professor at a decent state university whose name you would recognize if I told you. He and I are in the same general area and I'm familiar with his publication record, so I will add that, IMO, the job is way below his weight class. His wife (homeschooled; graduated #1 in her law school) wanted to live in a particular part of the country, so that's where he found a job. One of his siblings has a BS in computer science and another a BS in chemical engineering. The third has an MA in music education and is a public school choir director, so I guess you got one out of four right, there.
I have another Christian friend who was homeschooled. He's 29 years old. As you suggested, he is quite gifted musically, has a masters in theology, and works part time at his church. Of course, he earned that degree while simultaneously working on a PhD in engineering at the University of Texas at Austin, which he fairly recently finished. He is also heavily involved in local 3rd party politics (so much so that he told me the other day that he was offered a position by the party at the state level. He turned it down to work at a local start-up company). His wife doesn't have her fingers in quite as many pies, but she was also homeschooled (they met as kids) and is about to complete an MS in cognitive science.
These are admittedly all "anecdotal evidence." I honestly don't know whether having religious parents and being homeschooled makes a child more or less likely than average to excel in the sciences. (Although it can safely be said that having religious parents tends to result in better outcomes on a wide variety of other measures. See, for example, this book.) But here's the thing: I am willing to bet that you don't know, either, and that you're talking out of your ass. Put down the Richard Dawkins and try to meet some scientifically-literate Christians, maybe at a church in a university town, or something.
Nor could they be concerned about substandard results from our country's education system.
Considering the kid doesn't read as well as schooled kids of his age, hasn't had much science education, I would say results of the education system are probably not the reason he is being homeschooled. (Could be wrong, the summary is brief, but this is the conclusion I drew.)
Heh, those were the first thoughts that came to my mind. Kahn academy is probably to advanced for him. But try to find (or create) a homeschool science olympiad team. That is how I got interested in science. Although our team was competed in the middle school division we had several ten-year-olds who would win medals for our 2nd team.
Those adults who couldn't read back then could perform any trade that existed back then, and could do the same today. They could perform those trades because reading has absolutely nothing to do with knowing how to do things, or being taught how to do them. Yes, that includes working with chemicals that can easily be labeled with something like an icon, like one representing its element (heard of the periodic table?). Why is it that you think humans are more mentally challenged than they really are? Don't get out much?
If the child's education is suffering at home, why is he being home educated ?
Just off the top of my head:
That the child is doing worse at home than the average student at school does not mean that the child is not doing better at home than he would at school.
The kid has a much greater chance of being hit by a car than he has of being hurt in a situation that could have been prevented by a "trained responder", yet I'm guessing you wouldn't suggest that the kid never cross a street.
Parents can have all sorts of reasons to want to home school their kids, but "lack of a trained responder" is not one of them.
I coach martial arts in a Chicago inner-city public high school. Way inner city, South Side. This is one of the schools that the political and media class would tell you is "failing" and that it's the fault of the teachers (and some knuckleheads would say there just needs to be more "trained responders"), but I can say without doubt that the hours those kids are in school is by far the safest of their day. I'll bet that even in the most affluent neighborhoods that the hours the kids are in school are going to be the safest of their day.
If you want to home school your kids because you don't want them being exposed to teh gays or because you don't want them learning all that non-biblical so-called "science" that's fine. Go ahead and doom your kid. If you're an "atheist liberal arts majors concerned about the influence of the religious right on curiculum (sic)" first, I would hope that whoever is home schooling you can teach you how to spell "curriculum". But second, I would say that both you and the god-botherer are making a huge mistake. With only a very very small number of exceptions, your kid is a lot better off in school, public or otherwise, than he is being taught by you at the kitchen table.
I have a friend who home-schooled his kid. Both he and his wife have PhDs and even they knew enough to hire tutors for most of the courses. And that was only because the kid had some very specific issues that made it difficult for him to go to school. His parents made it work because they were really really smart and really really rich, and they knew they weren't qualified to teach their kid on their own. (The kid is about to graduate from Northwestern University).
Home schooling is just another aspect of the continual effort to devalue expertise. Today, if you're a scientist you can't possibly know jack-shit about climate change because, hell, you're a scientist, and the man on the radio says that's all baloney. If you're a world renowned economist, you can't know shit because hell, you're a liberal. If you're a college professor, clearly me and momma can do a much better job of educating little Johnny. If you're a journalist, well, everybody knows you don't know anything because you're part of the "mainstream media", so everything in the newspaper is clearly bogus. Once expertise has been sufficiently degraded then you can get people to believe absolutely anything, because everybody knows the only true science is right there in the bible and by the way, I'll explain the bible to you, because if you read it on your own you'll only get the wrong idea. You can tell people anything and they won't be able to tell whether or not it's true. It's the most convenient way to destroy small-d democracy. I'm betting every single one of you can think of ways expertise is being degraded. and it's turning us into a nation of frightened dummies who all think they're smart as hell and by-god they'll be the ones teaching their children how to spell "curiculum" thank you very much.
Idiocracy.
You are welcome on my lawn.
This is why home-schooling is a often a bad idea. Not that you can't home-school, but that it is soo much more difficult for a parent to be skilled in enough topics to effectively teach their children. Like most visitors of Slashdot, I'm good at teaching math and science (including chemistry and especially biology) but poor at teaching right brain fields such as reading, English, geography and history. I'd never home school because of my incomplete competency.
The older the student, the more difficult home-schooling becomes. Are you going to maintain a chemistry lab when the student is advanced enough to need laboratory content?
On the other hand, the vast majority of well-adjusted, successful (or just decent) people are not home-schooled, no?
No.
Look at how many people are in jobs they are unhappy with.
School is great at teaching you all about how to keep your head down, how to get along. How to conform to what is going on so you do not disrupt the system.
Are the myriad of people who do normal work at jobs they dislike really well adjusted? I'm not so sure. I've done corporate work, I've worked for smaller companies, I work for myself now.
What homeschooling helped me to realize early on is that a way I want to do something might be a great way to do it after all. It taught me I can truly do or learn anything, if I will it. I have sent myself in directions of my choosing, not just grabbing on to things floating past.
I don't see that many other adults that seem to have learned this.
Because if you think that these achievements are limited to the home schooled
They absolutely are not limited to the home schooled. For instance, kids in expensive private education learn the same lessons, which is why they grow up to direct you in all aspects of life.
People also learn these things over time... but why wait? Wisdom is wasted on the elderly I say, how powerful to be wise and young!
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
My suggestion is similar to another comment: educate yourself. If you are his grandparent and find you are too "old" to learn the topic (which I would consider a cop-out, though it's your choice to decide), your fall back is the home-schooling community.
It seems as if his parents are somewhat neglectful since they haven't taken the time to address his reading level (as others, I am assuming no disability), so get other people to help you. It seems everywhere I go there is a hidden home-school community; it might be hard to find, but it is likely there. If you are having trouble finding the community, I'd suggest asking a local high-school educator for introductions to parents (s)he happens to know that home school. I think you will find that other parents are very kind and helpful. Often I see people "trading" their children to other parents who happen to know more on a subject than them. If you are expected to participate in this by teaching students in return for chemistry lessons, don't downplay your own education.
If your a grandmother you are likely at _least_ over 50 years old. You have a lot of life experience you can share. Teaching, especially home-schooling, is not necessarily about science, math, and geography. It is also about developing young well rounded minds. Teach them something you know, if that's just knitting, then by god teach them knitting. You will teach them patience, spacial co-ordination, and social aspects (people go to knitting clubs to talk, not just knit). Above all, though, educate yourself. Nothing helps you understand material better than teaching it. Seeing other peoples views on things that you could have missed. This is not just an opportunity for your grandson to have an excellent education in things he enjoys, but it is an opportunity for you to continue you your amassed world knowledge with further specifics.
You are never too old to learn something new.
Sure I can, I've known too many homeschooled fuckups.
And no, you're not an engineer, if you would have finished your engineering degree you would know so. You're not even an Engineer Intern.
You're nothing more than a software developer, try and get license information from your local state board..
FTA: He is home educated and doesn't read as well as schooled kids of his age. He hasn't had much science education and no chemistry at all. None of his parents or grandparents have chemistry education beyond the school minimum and none feel confident about teaching it.
WTF? If not one in the house is qualified and no one has more than a HS diploma how and why is this child home schooled? This can't be good for the child.
It's worth noting that fully 50% of students in public school are reading at a "below average" level. The OP says his grandson isn't reading "as well as schooled kids his age". Which schooled kids? Where does the grandson fall on a percentile basis? It's a near certainty there are some kids in the public system that are performing even worse than the grandson despite having received instruction from "qualified" individuals.
Was I the only one who read this and thought, "Meth Lab"?
One very important lesson that children are not being taught is that they must be their own advocate. It is not doing them any benefit to allow them to rely upon others to ensure things are being taken care of in their best interest. Should the school guidance councilor/academic adviser have been paying attention and told him he was missing graduation requirements? Yes. Should the kid have been paying attention to that himself? Yes.
Two of my imaginary friends reproduced once
Of course there are. There's numerous private schools you can send your kids to where they don't have to worry much about gangs, violence, armed police arresting them if they have a temper tantrum, etc. Don't expect these places to be cheap, though.
since when is baking not chemistry?
insensitive clod overlords obligatory xkcd car analogy russian reversals whoosh pedant fanbois ftfy in 3...2...1..PROFIT
Why is a 10 year old learning chemistry in the first place? I mean, I'm all for kids learning things they're interested in, so if he's expressed an interest then more power to him. In my public school environment I wasn't exposed to chemistry per se until 11th grade. So, when I was 15. There were "earth science" and "general physical science" in 7th and 8th grades respectively, but I hesitate to call those "chemistry".
It is entirely possible that if the child is also from Wales, that they are living in a remote location where it's not feasible to send the child to school every day due to distance - if the commute would be more than an hour it's not worth it. Sometimes there is no feasible public transport method (we don't have big yellow buses in the UK) and there could be a variety of other reasons. I do wish that the Submitter had preempted the obvious flaming by briefly explaining the reason for the homeschooling (which is extremely rare in the UK and unlikely to be for religious reasons).
But to answer the submitter - get a tutor. I don't know if that will help as there are certain aspects of Chemistry that require a lab to demonstrate and can't be done at home, but at least if you start with someone who _can_ teach Chemistry you have a better chance of getting an acceptable result.
That nugget of information makes it sound like the homeschoolers are not competent teachers, which asks the question "Why are they homeschooling"?
someday there will be a critical mass of people who stop and think about what is being said before jumping to really weak conclusions. here's my assumption: in your tiny universe it's not possible for someone to have learning disabilities regardless of whether or not they attend school.
insensitive clod overlords obligatory xkcd car analogy russian reversals whoosh pedant fanbois ftfy in 3...2...1..PROFIT
in 1910, the literacy rate among whites was 95% If society hadn't been so racist, the literacy rate among blacks would have been a lot higher.
1) Less than public school kids reading ability essentially equates to illiteracy. Considering how many of my classmates in public high school could not read beyond 4th grade level.
2) Don't blame home schooling itself. Just as there are good and band schools. There are good and bad home schools.
My wife was home schooled. She is now an RN. Her brother was home schooled. Earn a number of competitive scholarships. He was even on the TV show "The Scholar" and placed 3rd. Attended Dartmouth university and did quite well. My wife's sister, who was also homeschooled, just graduated from Dartmouth as well.
Overall, I would say that 90% of the homeschoolers excel over the public school students. Yes, there are some failings. But far far less than found in public schools.
After week 4, the kid will either have lost interest, or will be sufficently hooked to ingest chemistry directly from the internet, with some mentoring and tutoring.
In this case, the submitter want to know if there is a way to teach chemistry without putting the kid into an environment that they found to be an epic waste of time.
This ten year old boy cannot read or write at the same level as public schooled children his age. He has almost no foundation in the sciences or mathematics on which you can build.
Schools used to teach chemistry at the tenth grade level and required Algebra 1 as a prerequisite. Chemistry was seen as a pre college course and not for most students. In the last fifty years chemistry has advanced to the point that it takes almost a genius to have any real command of the subject. I seriously doubt that 99% of adults who are not already trained chemistry teachers could ever be decent instructors regardless of effort and time spent. If the child must be home schooled I think you need to find a professional chemistry teacher willing to tutor. It is also important to realise that you could never hope to have the lab equipment nor have access to the dangerous chemicals, fume hoods, and supplies. This is an area where a minute mistake can cause massive injury or death. I recall making compounds in high school so sensitive that a slight error in measurement would convert a harmless compound into a highly explosive rocket fuel. Our teacher watched intensely as we handled, mixed and measured the chemicals. Our sister school across town had a young girl skilled in ballet that blew all of the fingers off her right hand in class. Please do not attempt to teach chemistry at home. You may also be shocked at the current depth of biology. Biology was a goof off, easy course years ago. Now it has depths that are night mares. Even having been educated in these subjects I know that as an adult I would be hard pressed to even acquire half of what a knew back in the day.
You may try covering technology in the early 20th century to get a good view of all the different fields. Chemistry or any other subject is a tough thing to crack without needed reading comprehension. Try different kinds of magazines, I used to read Nat G. for hours as a kid. I would also very strongly suggest trips out of town to science, history, and art, museums and aquariums. Great chances to interact with people, events and get on your feet. Part of development is experiencing environments aside from TV and computers. For 10 year old, for starters I would find a fiction series that she or he is going to be interested in and follow it through. Which is one of the things I missed out on doing.
Do a search for Steve Spangler the Science Guy. http://www.stevespanglerscience.com/
He's appeared on Ellen about 15 times and has a way of making science interesting, and memorable. If you can imitate the style he uses and connect it to the theory that you will have a great recipe for learning.
Personally I could never make the connection between the experiment we did in school and the theory, even though my father was the former Head of Science at the High School, science never engaged me enough for me to want to learn the indepth theory behind it, so generating and maintaining interest in the subject is the key.
At 10 years old the level of theory is very basic, I remember some science teaching at age 11 and 12, so it's really simple stuff you'd be teaching:
Basic electricity: Buy a few 1.5v light bulbs, switches, wire and a battery pack. Make simple circuits, then craft a torch out of a cardboard roll and some aluminium foil. You can explain series and parallel circuits. Ask questions like what if all the lights in our house were in series and one bulb blew? Etc There are some very basic electronic projects you can buy which would be perfect. Teaching a child how to solder together a basic toy from a few bits and pieces (switches and lights) could be very rewarding, or use some sort of quick connectors so the child can pull apart and make other circuits.
Astronomy: How does the Solar System work? The basics of planets, stars (suns), how big the solar systems is and where we exist in the galaxy. Shoe him how to identify a few of the constellations and how navigate by the stars. Find out when the next meteor shower is due and make that a special event.
Chemistry: Gasses to liquids to solids. What happens when water gets frozen? Show the power of water - fill a glass bottle to the top and put the lid on, wrap it in lots of newspaper and freeze it. Carefully open the newspaper the next day to show the cracked and broken bottle. What happens to ice when it's in water? What would happen to all the creatures in a pond in the winter if the ice didn't float? (This is assuming your ponds don't freeze solid) You could segway into biology here:
Biology: Visit local rock pools (if any are close) and see what lives under the rocks, visit parks and collect seeds and leaves. How do trees reproduce? What do they start as? How do they change as they grow up? Can a tree die of old age? If you can find some tadpoles set up a little tank so he can watch them change into frogs.
There are so many simple things that can become a mini science lesson, it's about making ti seem like fin and not like school.
But my college chem classes? Literally the first time a class has been just so impossible to care about that I failed it.
What crappy college was this? I went to an average State University for my freshman and sophomore years, and my freshman Chemistry class was pretty good. The lecture part (300-person lecture hall) was boring as hell, so I stopped going to that right away and just studied on my own and with another student. However, the "recitations" (once-a-week class with a TA) were good, and the lab was good too. We did all kinds of stuff with test tubes, bunsen burners, etc., every single week. We had easy access to some rather powerful acids on our benches. I don't know exactly how well it ranked compared to other schools' Chemistry 101 classes, but it seemed just fine to me, and was a whole lot more interesting than most of my other classes.
"He is home educated and doesn't read as well as schooled kids of his age. He hasn't had much science education and no chemistry at all. "
you have critical unmet dependencies that prohibit your child from learning anything considered at the lectern by public education, let alone its homeschool analog that as abrasive as this sounds appears to be failing miserably. Homeschool parents make the mistake of asserting they mustnt be experts in a field in order to teach it, which while true is a flawed logic at best. It reduces education to a commandment, not a healthy discussion. You'll be able to regurgutate the lecture certainly, however important questions your child may have about a topic or media will be relegated to the wayside whereas a public educator will undoubtedly have a specialization that permits them to afford the child greater understanding.
to dissect the aformentioned talking points from another poster:
* Dramatically improved science curriculum over state requirements.
not if you have a cursory understanding of the topic and champion it as adequate.
* Aggressive reading and mathematics programs.
see above. you're affording what amounts to aggressive indoctrination into the general structure and idea of mathematics. abstractions and permutations will not be a part of your lecture, unless you know maths as well as a public school teacher.
* Enhanced educational environment (a quiet, well equipped classroom).
much of modern society revolves around a team framework, to achieve success as a diverse group. homeschooling cannot possibly compare to a group of 6 or 12 children, unless you're mormon.
* Teachers who really care, and want each child to be able to compete in a demanding global economy as adults. We love our students like parents should, because we are both.
this is a bullshit talking point that serves to demonize public educators and whitewash homeschooling. your demanding global economy expects your child to understand how to work in groups, ask questions and perform critical thinking that is stymied by homeschool at the expense of the "dont need to be an expert" mantra. every minority coworker and dissenting opinion afforded your child in the future will only appear as a landmine, not a competitive rung, by which your child will lay eviscerated as their public counterparts outpace them. All this at the insistance that students be loved?
Good people go to bed earlier.
All children should be in a formal school _and_ home schooled at the same time.
In other words, nobody turns off their learning skills when they leave the classroom and
all parents should teach their children everything they are _capable_ of teaching them.
Cub Scout Science Some great chemistry experiments for young ones are:
Keep it simple and stuff they can relate to. Be sure to talk about safety on dangerous reactions, acid and alkaloid burns, etc. Check out also the Khan Academy online - lots of good stuff in there. www.khanacademy.org/
I think he's specifically referring to the subset of religious people who are "demanding the public schoolteachers waste time acknowledging or debating their particular flavor of pseudo-science" and/or homeschool just for religious reasons.
The perimeter of ignorance. A boundary where scientists face a choice: invoke a deity or continue the quest for knowledge
http://www.haydenplanetarium.org/tyson/read/2005/11/01/the-perimeter-of-ignorance
I bet they are above average in Bible study...
Actually, what went through my mind was "marksmanship", but yeah... bible study is probably better.
...and, by the OP's own admission, they're falling short so far (in that the kid's reading isn't up to par) and that they're ill-equipped to teach the subject matter which is planned (in that the parents have no real background in chemistry). It sounds like they're trying to serve two masters; whatever reason they had for pulling the kid out of school (or not ever putting him in), they've decided that that reason trumps "quality of education" (and before you jump on me about public school being lousy, I'm talking about this case, where the parents don't even have the time or skill to get the kid reading well). If it's a religious reason, fine. If it's because you hate the principal of the school, fine. Take heart in the fact that that top priority is being met and accept that the kid's "book larnin'" is going to suffer.
What I can't get past, when I hear about situations like this, is that, over time, society has made steady strides toward specialization of labor and has been reaping the efficiency gains that accompany it, and then these parents turn their back on it. I'm pretty certain that these parents are not better mathematicians than the local math teacher, better painters than the local art teachers, better grammarians than the local English teacher, etc. On top of that, it would be very tough to match the facilities (especially for something like chem). At my local high-school, for example, they teach CAD, video editing, pottery, printmaking, auto shop... stuff that requires not only a range of skills that you're unlikely to find in a single person (or even a pair of parents), but also makes use of equipment which you're unlikely to find at home (like milling machines, pottery kilns, a hoist for auto shop, etc.). This whole scenario makes me think of somebody trying to be their own lawyer and doctor, too.... just the level of forsaking (or discounting) the expertise offered by those who do that thing for a living.
not all people are the same. The original poster implied that the 10 year old wasn't a good reader.
I hear there's a lot of money to be made at home as a freelance chemist. Looks like he should be able to pull a good bit of coin.
We never taught any 'formal' subjects. Instead, we built forts, cooked meals, crawled under the house to do plumbing, went to the library and did a lot of reading. 15 years later, we are extremely proud of the results.
My advice is not to worry about chemistry. There is plenty do to outside of a classroom. Get involved with Boy Scouts and go on the outings. In short, get involved with your grandson.
Your academic concerns will be replaced with pride. Good luck.
Doesn't even need be a public school. Chemistry 101 at any community college should fill the bill. I took a college level English course to get my NYS regents.
I was a chemistry teacher for a few years in an underserved high school with few resources, so my situation may be more similar to yours than many more "traditional" schools (weak reading skills, few resources).
I found a couple of books particularly helpful:
1) "The Cartoon Guide to Chemistry" by Larry Gonick (http://www.amazon.com/Cartoon-Guide-Chemistry-Larry-Gonick/dp/0060936770/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1339110325&sr=8-1#productPromotions)
2) "Illustrated Guide to Home Chemistry Experiments: All Lab, No Lecture" by Robert Bruce Thompson (http://www.amazon.com/Illustrated-Guide-Home-Chemistry-Experiments/dp/0596514921/ref=pd_sim_t_1)
The cartoon guide is surprisingly sophisticated, but keeps concepts simple. The experiment book is a little complex at times but if you are in a city with a hobby shop that stocks small amounts of chemicals, they are definitely do-able.
Also, I can't recommend the Phet (phet.colorado.edu) simulations more highly. They are fun to play around with and help illustrate key concepts (and they are constantly updated!).
Or, he can home-school his kid and his kid can get a better education.
It only seems that way to someone who unfamiliar with home schooling.
You're assuming he went to the advisers or followed their advice... While advising was "required" at my high school, there were plenty of ways to slip yourself through the cracks or choose your own classes regardless of your advisement. Seniors in high school are given some pretty good leeway in deciding for themselves.
I don't disagree with the zero tolerance policies though. You still have to consider public schools are given conflicting requirements: Educate children and allow them to grow intellectually and creatively, but don't allow them to do anything another student or parent might object to. Hell in this very thread we have half of the posts complaining that schools are full of punks and bullies running amok while the other half complain that they are prison like indoctrination centers. You can't have it both ways. You must willing to put up with some creativity killing order as well as some bullies being bullies.
+1 Disagree
Blacksmiths probably couldn't read well as a population, yet they were still experts in applied chemistry.
Virtually all of the home-schooled kids I know are at least as well educated as their public school counterparts. I know one that finished Calc II while still at home, and he plays the French horn beautifully well. (I haven't heard what college degree he graduated with, but I'd be shocked if he didn't ace it.) But this same kid believes that dinosaurs never existed. He can go forth in this world and will no doubt succeed in any field he chooses. He'd make a fine engineer, or lawyer, or mathematician. He'll probably go on to be a deacon in his church some day. But I also can pretty much guarantee you he won't choose a career in paleontology. And I don't think he'll be teaching biology, geology, or astronomy if he thinks god created the universe 6,000 years ago, because those professions simply wouldn't fit with his worldview. I'm good with that.
While having a religious upbringing may sound like it correlates to success, I'd postulate that the primary reason the kids you and I know who are succeeding is because their parents have cared greatly about their children's success for their entire lives. And I consider home schooling to be prima facie evidence of parents who care. Parents who use the schools as babysitters, as surrogate parents, as the disciplinarians, or to provide their moral compasses, those who abdicate their own responsibilities for raising their children, they're far more likely to have the kids that don't reach their potential. And that comprises a depressingly large percentage of kids.
John
As a child of the 80's I'd also recommend you introduce him to Mr. Wizard and give him the fun side of it as well which I believe increases interest in the subject nicely. While he passed away, you are still able to order the shows from his website. http://www.mrwizardstudios.com/
Why do you get to decide what subjects children need?
As were dyers, weavers, and spinners.
You would be totally floored by the complex chemistry that happens in trying to get organic dyes to stick to cellulose.
After week 4, the kid will either have lost interest, or will be sufficently hooked to ingest chemistry directly from the internet
Searching the Internet and ingesting chemicals recommended there? That's exactly the sort of plan "what could possibly go wrong?" was coined for.
I can't say that I know anything about the chemistry required for dying things, but I'd imagine it's fairly complex once you get past the basics.
Either way, I doubt it could compare to the chemistry required for metallurgy and smithing.
I had that attitude until I met my Wife's sister's kids. They're smarter and way more mature than school taught kids.
I've changed my attitude, so when I read comments like yours, I think "you haven't met home schooled kids"
Wrong. Almost everyone did. Not as structured, and with a lot of hoodoo cruft, but if they knew how to mordant linen fibers, they were doing some crazy organic chemistry, and required a pretty good foundation in lab processes and handling.
They might have harbored stupid notions of spontaneous genesis, and "miracles", but that doesn't make what they were doing any less chemistry.
This is the reason for dark age history of chemistry in week 1.
Somebody please mod this up. This does not deserve the 1 that it has.
"False hope is why we'll never run out of natural resources!" - Lewis Black
Chemistry is understanding why you are mixing while baking is just following the recipe.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
When I was a kid, I had a friend who was homeschooled (our parents were mutual friends, and we'd play together quite a bit). He dropped out of high school, ended up getting a GED, and to this day is barely able to hold a part time job. His sibling hasn't fared much better. Anecdotal evidence should be given less weight when forming an opinion.
"False hope is why we'll never run out of natural resources!" - Lewis Black
Ahh, but you see, ancient textile chemistry is one of my more obscure interests!
Cellulose is chemically inert. Withstands strong acids, and strong alkali solutions remarkably well. That's why they use it for labcoats.
As a consequence of that resilience, it is abysmally hard to get colorants to stick to it.
The ancient egyptians, playing with salts and glasses in their rituals and religious practices, discovered that linen soaked in certain salts held colors better. Through extensive experimentation, the process of mordanting fabrics prior to dying became a major industry, because the cloth they produced held deeper colors, resisted fading and washout far longer, and in some cases, even resisted rotting better.
This knowledge spread through the ancient world, and in about 1000 years or so, was all over africa, the middle east, and mediteranean europe.
As a result of continued experimentation with mordants, as both pretreatments of fabrics, and as additives to the colorant baths themselves, several very sophisticated processes came into existence.
These processes needed to be tightly controlled for optimal quality, and were often guild secrets or highly protected tribal knowledge.
Take for instance, how to use indigo dye.
The blue form of the dye is totally insoluble in water, and only weakly soluble in water. To dye fabric with it, you have to literally break a bond in the complex with a transient third party, so that it can go into solution, and bind to mordanted fabric.
This is accomplished by mixing the blue colorant in a mix of amonium salts and amonia. Traditionally, stale urine. This causes the blue color to completely vanish, and for the solution to take on a cloudy white color. This is called "indigo white." Fabric to be dyed is immersed in this solution, the lid is placed on top of the pot, and it is vigorously boiled to bind the amonia-bound indigotin to the mordanted cellulose.
When the cloth is removed, it appears as if nothing has happened at all!
However, on exposure to the air, oxidation occurs as the ammonia gasses off, and the fabric slowly turns from bleached white linen, to deep ultra blue linen.
Other fantastical dye formulations are for lichen based greens and purples from scottish highlanders, which ONLY work with special mordants, and black dyes made with tannins.
Dyers used unholy crazy amounts of chemistry.
Less "meth cook's formulary" and "anarchist's cookbook", and more "pub med".
Don't be a sophist.
agreed, and agreed.
if the kid isn't reading where he should be, what is he doing with his time? and where the hell is his parents/teachers? they've got the kid all day every day.. what's their excuse?
his parents are failing at being his teachers, and perhaps as his parents, too... like many other parents who homeschool, they are not qualified to teach the broad range of subjects required to homeschool, yet they have their heads up their asses thinking they can do better than a traditional school.
send the kid to school. he's obviously not going to be a dr. sheldon cooper, so at least he'd pick up the social skills he'll need to be 'average'
___
as far as the regular schools go, it's lazy ass parents that don't give a shit, raising lazy ass kids who also don't give a shit, that are the main problem... not schools, not the teachers, not the administrators (except in a few cases where states or school boards are completely off their rockers).
if the kids don't care, and the parents don't care.. then the kids aren't going to achieve what they could. teachers can try all they want but if a kid doesn't want to learn, they aren't gonna learn much.
That means it could easily be for religious reasons
People misrepresent homeschoolers as being angry with the school system because it teaches evolution and not creationism.
While this may be a reason for some parents, the biggest reasons are poor quality in the school system, bullying, and Marxist ideology.
Marxism infests public schools, both in its old form (violent Marxism-Leninism) and in its current form (cultural Marxism, created by Gramsci and Marcuse, based on feminism, homosexual militancy, racial militancy such as affirmative action, multiculturalism, etc.). I have read that public schools all over the world are infested with these two kinds of Marxism. And my school (in South America) surely was. I was never taught that Stalin had a close alliance with Hitler in the beginning of WWII. I was never taught that, when some people in the UK were demanding Hitler to be stopped, Moscow ordered communist parties all over Europe to militate for the appeasement of Hitler, so that Hitler - Stalin's ally - could fight unimpeded.
I was never taught that Stalin invaded Finland in the Winter War. I was never taught that the Cuban Revolution killed an astonishing high percentage of the Island's population. I was never taught that Marxism killed 100,000,000 people in the XX century.
But I was "taught" that the political left is wonderful, that "neoliberals" and "globalisation" are evil, that the USA is evil, that the September 11 attacks were an attack "against American arrogance", that the USA deliberately allowed Japan to attack Pearl Harbour, that divorce and promiscuity is OK, and that the Church is evil.
Some parents do not agree with that. I sure don't.
The 8 year old signed a code of conduct with that states basic behavior expectations. In FL it's a very simple form, and there's a parents handbook to go with it. The idea it to get the children and parents into thinking about consequences. Kids in FL are only at school for a few hours, there aren't long lunchbreaks and some don't even have recess anymore. The parent clearly has a low education himself, and there's nothing to suggest he's putting effort into his kid's education. Teachers also make notes in kids' agendas regarding any issues, which this parent is not declaring, this kids is clearly a repeat offender. Teachers get the blame for kids misbehaving. Playing tag at recess, when it's not allowed, reflects badly on the teacher. Her kids are classed as being out of control. Blame the state Governor for the new shorter hours and break time for elementary schools.
hmmm. i guess. when i follow a recipe i have a pretty good understanding why i'm using what i'm using. if i'm baking bread i know why i use yeast and when i bake cookies i know why i use eggs. when i make a reduction, i know why i'm evaporating water. maybe it's only chefs that do chemistry with food? i was unaware that chemistry can not be practical.
insensitive clod overlords obligatory xkcd car analogy russian reversals whoosh pedant fanbois ftfy in 3...2...1..PROFIT
Um, is it a surprise that 50% of students fall below the average? It's what below average means. Turns out roughly 0% of them are above average too.
Wow, 50% of students are below average, who knew!
Hell in this very thread we have half of the posts complaining that schools are full of punks and bullies running amok while the other half complain that they are prison like indoctrination centers. You can't have it both ways.
Right, and you can have either a police state or total anomie. There's no way we can protect the innocent from the malicious without chaining everybody down for their own safety.
-Forrest Cameranesi, Geek of all Trades
"I am Sam. Sam I am. I do not like trolls, flames, or spam."
Khan Academy has some great teaching videos.
http://www.khanacademy.org/#chemistry
Blow.....up?
Have you heard about SoylentNews?
Here's a bundle of home science kits by Robert Bruce Thompson, a libertarian in North Carolina.
http://www.thehomescientist.com/index.html
He's also got some books by O'Reilly or somebody, but I don't want to bother tracking them down.
Wow, that was the first time I heard of such incredible ********.
I think that this could actually cause psychological damage to your boy.
If his natural, harmless boy behaviours are repressed, he could become
too introverted and face other problems.
More likely, he will learn to disobey authority, which is bad. Since his teachers
punish him for doing things he knows are good, then when someone punishes
him for doing _actual evil_ he will say "Nah, just the old bossy idiots again".
I would consider homeschooling him.
Rather than explosives, teach about energetic reactions in the context of pyrotechnics. If you're in the US you can still make your own pyrotechnics as a hobby ( for now ). Unfortunately your "war of terror" seems to have enabled the banning of amateur pyro in most of the rest of the developed world.
Hmm, sounds St. Lucie County. As a survivor of that fine prison, err school system, I'm not surprised. Check out the parochial schools in the area or if you can swing it (time and patience) hook up with the online homeschoolers one county north. My nephew is doing quite well with the program.
I applaud you for picking up on that oh-so-subtle aspect of the point I was trying to make.
Definition of "salt".
Thats a Jolee movie.
Parents can teach their kids without special training, given the excellent
homeschooling material available.
If you are worried about the scientific training of the next generations, you can
simply advocate for mandatory periodic exams, with low-scoring kids being
sent to the regular school system.
There are valid reasons for homeschool, such as horrible quality of public schools,
an anti-elitism ideology that stifles excellence, and ideological bias (see http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2901425&cid=40251471)
Getting involved in the local school is good, but not always fixes the problem. You may find that common-sense
is a small minority in your school.
So if Creation Science follows the scientific method (in many cases more than traditional Evolution-based teaching that expects the hearers to take its claims as face value [Oort cloud anyone?]), then it is not science?
You can live in your fantasy world where that's the case if you like, but in my world (and any good scientist's world) following the scientific method = science, even when done by creationists.
Peter predicted that you would "deliberately forget" creation 2000 years ago...
Or both. That way you might actually get knowledge AND wisdom.
Peter predicted that you would "deliberately forget" creation 2000 years ago...
Most people don't have a clue why they add the ingredients. It just says 'do this'
Most people are stupid.
I don't consider 'applied' chemistry like that as real chemistry. With no understanding, its not a science.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Exactly. Kids raised in strict religious homes are far less likely to suffer from risk factors such as alcoholism, drug addiction, teen pregnancy, criminal behavior, etc. They are more likely to succeed based on those factors alone.
Peter predicted that you would "deliberately forget" creation 2000 years ago...
At my Daughters school (who is of a similar age), they got each of the students to find and then present an experiment to the rest of the class.
So the students themselves had to go through the discovery process during which my daughter trialled several experiments which she had to research herself before selecting the one she was happy to present, this combined with the experiments from her class mates, I believe creates a much more enjoyable learning experience than some dry learning from text books. And I suspect the outcome was that all of the students learned more in that format than they would have in a traditional approach.
"He is home educated and doesn't read as well as schooled kids of his age."
That is unusual. Homeschooled kids are typically far ahead of public schooled kids. This is a well documented fact plus I've observed it in all the homeschooled kids I know, including our three. You need to address this issue before worrying about the chemistry issue. Something else is going on.
"Creation science" doesn't follow the scientific method. To be scientific, a theory has to be falsifiable. Beliefs in the supernatural aren't.
My early chemistry researches were finding household chemicals that could blow things up. I found them. YMMV
Yes. Unfortunately, a lot of households these days lack basic essentials like aluminum and iron oxide powders, and magnesium ribbon.
Optimal firing solution computed: https://alphachemicals.com/products
Thank you, Edward Snowden.
"Arguments from authority are worthless." —Carl Sagan
I think that it's kind of built into the definition of 'average' that half of the people are going to be below it, and half of them are going to be above it.
And yet, most children with these disabilities can get special help when in the public school system. Sure, there is always a chance that they don't get the help they need immediately, but they do get it eventually. Doesn't sound like this kid has a chance of getting it at all.
This seems to be an overly broad statement, given that there was a perceived need for No Child Left Behind. Clearly, in some schools kids are not getting the resources that they need.
Statistically, homeschooled kids outperform their public-schooled peers. However, there will be some kids who do worse. Whether these under-performing homeschooled kids would do better in a public school environment is currently a matter of conjecture, as far as I know. Maybe someone will do rigorous studies of this kind someday.
Okay I second everyone that says reading is fundamental. It is but one key I have found is kids need the right reading material. The contrived stuff that religious idiots and "educators" force on kids is why they don't want to read. If a kid isn't interested in the reading then they aren't going to do it and thus aren't going to progress. Have you tried offering science fiction (Asimov's early works)? mystery (Sherlock Holmes)? non-fiction (Omnivore's Dilema)?
On to chemistry... Chemistry is fun! Baking a cake is chemistry. Taste is chemistry. Growing crystals is chemistry. Growing plants is biology and chemistry... try adding some sulfur powder (1/2cup per 20 ft.) on a row of onions; compare the flavor versus onions not fed sulfur. Matches are chemistry, sugar plus sulfuric acid is fun (do only in a well ventilated area) and is chemistry.
Basically figure out what the child is interested and build from there. It's called an Individualized Education Plan (IEP) is schools and when done right they can really get a kid going but it takes work and thought.
has great high school chemistry courses on DVD. Buy them when they are on sale. Wonderful products.
I agree. Home schooling is a conservative ploy to edit the knowledge that is passed to the next generation. It is despicable.
Really? I thought all the expensive ones were drug-ridden. Not the crack-smoking in the halls between the gang shootouts, but the I-have-the-money-to-buy-the-stuff-and-mom-and-dad-are-never-around weed/coke/pills/sex party stuff that is just pervasive in expensive religious schools. It's all fun and games until they're hocking their (and your) fancy electronics to pay for their habit.
Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
http://thehappyscientist.com is a site that specifically caters to children with an interest in science. Robert Krampf does a wonderful job of making the subjects (including chemistry) engaging, understandable, age appropriate, and educational. There have been several times when I've had to tell my 10 year old to "turn off that science stuff and go to bed!"
/. comment blather that's been posted here, much of it against alternative schooling. I commend your family for deciding to take a different path and wish more people would consider the option. Ignore the attacks and focus on what you know to be the best thing for your kids. No one starts homeschooling on a whim and I'm sure it was a difficult decision, even without the ignorant 18 year old critics who are still 15 girlfriends away from discovering reproduction.
On a related topic, I've only quickly scanned the
Wait - really? Okay - you're saying that 50% of students are below average? No shit, Sherlock.
This just means that the mean (average) is higher than the median, which happens if there's a long tail to the left (ie: a few kids are really bad at reading, and the rest fit into a nice bell curve).
White lies, Damn lies, and statistics.
P am NOT a chemist but Mathematician and PhD engineer. To understand anything in chemistry, not just a long list of disconnected
experimental results you need to have a basic billiard ball understanding or atoms, which you need to know is not true, just a very useful
approximation. In parallel Physics should be teaching a good atomic build model ans a student should get to understand BOTH within a year
H2O involves a valence electron and bi-polar molecule and it dosn't get simpler than that.
MFG, omb
Robert Bruce Thompson, former writer of computer manuals, has spent the last five years or so broadening his horizons. He has a Home Astronomy book which is quite good (I have a copy) and has written a series of Home Lab books for Biology, Chemistry, and he has one coming out soon on Forensic Chemistry.
http://www.ttgnet.com/journal/
http://www.amazon.com/Illustrated-Guide-Home-Biology-Experiments/dp/1449396593/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1339121015&sr=8-1
http://www.amazon.com/Illustrated-Guide-Home-Chemistry-Experiments/dp/0596514921/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1339121015&sr=8-4
http://www.amazon.com/Illustrated-Guide-Astronomical-Wonders-Observer/dp/0596526857/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1339121015&sr=8-7
lab gear isn't too expensive if you're only buying sets of 1...
plus you can make booze with it when the kid's not using it (or you can teach them to make booze for great justice).
Sounds like your boy is a Terrorist, and you are a military-aged man living with him. Better watch out for drone strikes.
exactly. an honest application of scientific method, even by a creationist, would tend to dissolve ideas of creation.
besides, i wonder what's with the false dichotomy of "creation OR evolution". there's plenty of sciences that cut God's lunch, evolution only undermining parts of Genesis (the rest being thoroughly trashed by Cosmology, Geology, etc).
imagine is more important than knowledge.
THAT is wisdom.
God doesn't come into the equation. troll harder, buddy.
[TFS] points out that the child is currently, after being homeschooled, a below average reader. That nugget of information makes it sound like the homeschoolers are not competent teachers, which asks the question "Why are they homeschooling"?
The submitter readily admits these shortcomings in the child's education, and no tutoring was mentioned. If I were to make an assumption, it might be that this is a low-income family with a sick child, trying to make the best of a bad situation. I'm not going to make any assumptions about the submitter's situation, however... I'll leave that to those who are apparently able to divine facts from missing/incomplete data.
Thank you, Edward Snowden.
"Arguments from authority are worthless." —Carl Sagan
A piece of information is still missing before any educational recommendation can be made. Why is the child being home schooled. Is it behavioural problems, is it distance or it it religious or other fundamentalist dogma. Without knowing the basis for the 'homeschooling' how can an educational recommendation be made, especially when chemistry is one of the areas where working with others is also taught (joint lab experiments and major reports). Those joint experiments and discussing the preparation of the laboratory report and jointly producing the various parts of it are an important part of education.
Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
(I do theory - started my schooling with a BS in Chemistry and BS in Mathematics with a Physics concentration) and I failed out of my high school mathematics, physics, and chemistry classes. Why? I loved science as a kid, and obviously have a strong aptitude for it. Somehow the "qualified educators" in my school were completely unable to get traction with a student who should have been the easiest to reach. I would have been just as well off watching Dukes of Hazard reruns at home.
46 & 2
He didn't say "below average". He said "below grade level". That means the kid doesn't meet the *minimum* for where he should be, not the middle of the bell curve.
Insert snarky comment here regarding reading comprehension from home or public schooling as you like...
50% of anything is below average.
Bingo. Not saying that public educators are by and large overly-qualified, but they at least have Masters' degrees and passed some minimal certification standards. They are far more qualified to educate kids than most homeschoolers. Send the kid to real school, your "home schooling" is not doing him any favors.
That was the point. That there are plenty of kids in public school who are also reading at a substandard level.
I was pleased when my boys started at an all boy school. The Headmaster is a man, and about 3/4 of the teachers are men too. Boys are expected to be boys, and a bit of rough and tumble is considered normal. Beware if it looks like bullying though, my oldest boy was given a detention for what was seen as bullying, (I punished him also). But my boys come home occasionaly with a ripped shirt, or covered in dirt, and it's usually because of some game they've been playing. It all seems really healthy to me.
Try this:
http://www.elementaurs.com/
It's a combination of chemistry and trading card game, also she wrote a novel that's quite good for pre-early teens.
The creator also partially home schooled her kids, and they're doing quite well from what I can tell.
The trading card game is in its infancy but kids seem to pick it up quite well, and its quite a bit of fun and teaches all sorts of things about Chemistry.
logical conclusion that there is a God
Error: Does Not Compute
When I was doing Chem it was the experiments which made it that much less dry. Using everyday items in everyday ways brings back a relevancy and creates an interest IMHO. Vinegar and baking soda rockets etc make it fun. Chemistry is part of everything we do and is core to so many professions. Cooking is a great example. You can substitute ingredients if you know what the ingredient needs to do. Engineering, knowing the properties of a substance allows you to make correct choices. Etc, etc. But experiments SHOW it is real. Or show him a few episodes of Breaking Bad. ;-)
If you took chemistry at my school, it was AP chemistry elsewhere (other classes the same). I took four years of Latin and two German. My PoliSci teacher was a former Notre Dame athlete turned Franciscan monk turned high-school teacher/football coach (Mr. Warren - awesome, awesome guy). Many children of the 'important' people in my city were my peers (you may not like it, but who you know can be important). And there was cotillion, Gatsby Day, the beautiful grounds and open covered hallways with every classroom opening to the world...
A miniscule risk compared to the rewards, if you can afford it. Your child will know how conduct themselves with statesmen (the few that are left anyway).
I'm both lazy and now suddenly faced with the reality that I'll have to actually put some effort into making the money to send my daughters to the schools that I went to.
I'm pretty sure the laziness was built-in and not a product of schooling. I never said I did _well_ in Latin...
While public schools can have problems (yes, I'm facing this issue today myself, I'm not speaking hypothetically) I still strongly believe that all children should go to public or accredited private schools that follow certain curriculum guidelines. If you want to home school, you must graduate from college with the appropriate degree and become a certified teacher and teach for 5 years prior to being allowed to home school your child(ren). Should you think this harsh and difficult to meet - you're correct. My opinion is that 99.999% of home schooled children are being robbed of opportunities and will be denied the ability to choose what could be best for them due to their parents short-comings/ignorance/prejudices/ignorance/etc.
The cesspool just got a check and balance.
1. (The Periodic Table of Elements Coloring Book [Paperback] by Teresa Bondora (Author), Ty Mullery (Illustrator). http://www.amazon.com/Periodic-Table-Elements-Coloring-Book/dp/1466484292/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1339128049&sr=1-1
2. (Real Science Chemistry for Kids): http://www.rainbowresource.com/searchspring.php?q=real+science+for+kids+chemistry
**Finding the right material is all a homeschool family needs to do. Or sign him up to participate in a Co-Op that teaches this subject.
1. (The Periodic Table of Elements Coloring Book [Paperback] by Teresa Bondora (Author), Ty Mullery (Illustrator). http://www.amazon.com/Periodic-Table-Elements-Coloring-Book/dp/1466484292/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1339128049&sr=1-1
2. (Real Science Chemistry for Kids): http://www.rainbowresource.com/searchspring.php?q=real+science+for+kids+chemistry
**Finding the right material is all a homeschool family needs to do. Or sign him up to participate in a Co-Op that teaches this subject.**
Practical chemistry is the application of material science. Teach backyard and kitchen chemistry. What they will never teach you in school.
Start with the basics of acids and bases. Supervise him getting burned by some of the stronger acids. That's the most important lesson he can learn young and must remember, i.e. fire and chemicals are dangerous. Build a primitive battery and show him how to anodize aluminum and etch copper clad board. You also have old fashioned photography. Make your own film. Electrolysis of water, then burn the captured gasses back into water vapor and finally condense back into water.
Show him how to build a still and make moonshine(seriously). Then you can teach him about refining and purifying materials. Later when he gets to the age of 14 or 15 you can teach him how to make his own firecrackers and simple plastic explosives(obviously limiting him to very small quantities.) This would be no different or dangerous than teaching about gun ownership, responsibility and marksmanship.
And all in between you can tech him the history all these things as well as the mistakes people have made in not really understanding the chemistry of what they were doing.
I don't remember the specifics but there was once a scientist and ether is was illegal to have gold or he was afraid of it being stolen. So he dissolved a not insignificant amount of gold into a liquid and kept it on his shelf amongst other chemicals and no one was the wiser.
Ditto.
You have some fantastic options online now. This space has come a long way. Check out Khan Academy, it's one of my favorite. http://www.khanacademy.org/science/chemistry
MIT and Harvard are collaborating on EdX - putting some of their best courseware online for people just like your grandson.
Good luck!
My science and chemistry class in public school consisted of the tenured teacher telling us to put our heads down and take a nap while she talked to her bird for 50 minutes.
maybe he should be sent to school so that he can get taught by qualified educators
Odds are, like most problems that children have, the problems lie in the parents. Either they overestimate their ability to educate, or overestimate the shool system's inability to do their job, or have some personal fear that prevents them from putting their child in exposure to ideas they find distasteful.
Fixing the problem in the parents for the benefit of the child is not a real option, the parents will first have to acknowledge that they have a problem, then fix it. By then the child might be much older, and the opportunity to fix an issue will be compounded by time.
Without the parent's acknowledgement that the situation needs changed greatly, the only means that seems parent friendly is to hire a local tutor or (preferably) school teacher to ammend the oversight. To make this most likely to succeed, I suggest that you direct the scheduling of the tutoring on the tutor's turf, preferably in a manner that prevents parental involvement. While certainly the parents most likely want their child to succeed, their ignorance, fear, or loss of face might prompt them to interfere with the remediation.
If you break the educational results down by state, you will see that yes, yes there are. As long as you don't make the mistake of living outside one of the civilized zones, you can actually see results pretty similar to the wealthy bits of Europe and even parts of Asia. Certain other states, by consistently achieving results that make you wonder if they are actually telecommuting from some hellish African warzone, really drag us down...
In my experience this disparity is spot-on and frighteningly so. I was educated in a cow pasture of a public high school where about a quarter of my graduating class was already at boot camp by graduation and art, music, and science funding were cut before even considering touching football or wrestling. Years later, as a graduate student in Los Angeles, I was involved in various mentoring programs for high school students and teachers. The students from public schools in Santa Monica and the Palisades (i.e., very wealthy areas) were just polishing their resumes before starting at Stanford or Harvard in the Fall. Most of their teachers had PhDs. The teachers that we mentored came instead from the other parts of LA Unified where graduation rates were below 50% and schools spent money on metal detectors and fences. We even had to supply them with the teaching materials for the workshops because it would otherwise have come from their own pockets. Their students' ambitions included staying out of jail and learning to read. And that was just the difference in one county.
Actually, I wrote my thesis on life experience.
that divorce and promiscuity is OK
I don't see the problem with this unless you're a religious nutjob.
Holy crap. I really do think that that is the only sane response to your...spew.
It does not sound like the parents are doing a good job educating their children when compared to traditional schooling at least to the poster. As such, there aren't many good reasons to continue homeschooling. The somewhat reasonable ones sound like negative ones: bullying, health reasons. The religious and political reasons are just stupid. No excuses for stupidifying your kids.
Well.. maybe. Or Maybe not. But Definitely not sort of.
So teachers are responsible for referring children to experts to determine learning abilities. When they fail to make the referrals, who exactly is at fault?
Well.. maybe. Or Maybe not. But Definitely not sort of.
I would suggest getting a book that has all of the elements and colorful pictures of objects made from those elements so that it keeps his attention. The elements are very interesting and should keep his attention. This is also a very fundamental concept of chemistry and a solid foundation of what things are made of will serve him well for any future studies. I think that how things react is a little beyond most 8 year olds and will only frustrate him. Start simple and teach him how exciting the world is at the atomic level and that curiousity and love for the subject will be the most important thing that you can teach him. If you teach him to love chemistry he will learn more than you think on his own.
I suggest theodore gray's "Elements" and you will probably love it just as much as he does.
You're an engineer, not a scientist. See the Salem Hypothesis.
Tubal-Cain smokes the white owl.
whoosh.
Take off every 'sig' !!
Why is this insightful? If you review your mathematics, you'll discover that 50% of students are below the median, but not necessarily below the "average" (mean).
totally agree
Public schools are, for the most part, not always great place to send very abnormal children. Children who are far more intelligent, far more inquisitive, learn differently (e.g., learn through engagement, the opposite of America's typical rote learning style), or have much different needs (e.g., a mental disability or a physical malady bad enough that they will be socially outcast and/or bullied incessantly) than their peers are not well suited for the vast majority of public schools in America. Public schools are good for most, but they are bad for those children who are the outliers.
It is absolutely unnecessary and unhelpful to suggest to the submitter than the child be sent to public schools (or private, which may be financially unviable). Homeschooling is not an easy decision; it is not only a major decision to make for the child's life, but it is a significant undertaking by the parent, too. It should go without saying that if the submitter's grandchild is being homeschooled, they have already made the decision that it is better than their other school options for this particular individual.
Furthermore, any assumption that homeschooling innately provides instruction of a lesser quality than that in public schooling is ignorant. Like all other schooling, the quality of the educator has much to do with the quality of the education. It's easy to point out the lunatics that homeschool and say that they are unqualified to teach their children, but you should not ignore the many thousands of parents who give their children a much better education at home (a misnomer, mind you--homeschooling doesn't need to be done at home, and, in fact, allows much more freedom for projects, exploration, and scientific field work) than they ever could hope to achieve at a "proper" school. Consider homeschooling like you would consider private tutoring/mentoring for privileged children, except instead of an expensive tutor there is a parent. In many cases, the parent is the better teacher.
It is also worth noting that there are tremendous amounts of affordable private options available to homeschoolers to get schooling by highly-qualified teachers/professors in hard-to-teach subjects like chemistry. Of course, the availability does depend on your state and your area, and because the submitter is asking Slashdot for help, I assume those options are not available for him.
well from the proposition, it sounds rather like it would be a happy ending.
who prays for Satan? Who in 18 centuries has had the humanity to pray for the 1 sinner that needed it most? ~Mark Twain
in the dark ages, chemistry consisted of trying to turn lead into gold without the benefit of knowing what the hell they were doing.
who prays for Satan? Who in 18 centuries has had the humanity to pray for the 1 sinner that needed it most? ~Mark Twain
pedant.
When he bothers to state that he does not read as well as schooled kids, you can safely assume he is far enough out on the bell curve that it's easy to see, and that there might be cause for concern.
Now whether that is because the kid is learning disabled, or because he has bad teachers, we have no idea, do we.
But in either case, the family will need to brig in external help.
But we do know that pedants are a pain in the ass and they never contribute constructively anywhere.
"My own memories of chemistry teaching in school are of disappointment, a shocking waste of everyone's time and extreme boredom."
Well, sending the child to school will certainly give him the benefit of similar experience.
who prays for Satan? Who in 18 centuries has had the humanity to pray for the 1 sinner that needed it most? ~Mark Twain
WHAT? Half the people in public schools are below average? This is totally unpossible.
In other news, half the people in US are below the national average IQ.
Here are ten numbers. Average them.
10
30
60
70
80
80
90
90
100
100
How many of these numbers are below the average? What percent?
Touch everywhere, even when inappropriate.
I've met both. I think the biggest factor is motivation behind homeschooling, followed by ability of the folks who will teach them.
Homeschooling seems to attract two extremes of the intellectual spectrum.
Touch everywhere, even when inappropriate.
It doesn't seem likely that a lot of these are their actual concerns, as they appear to be in the UK, and most of these are much less of an issue in UK schools. All schools here have at least one trained first-aider, bullying is a lot less of a problem than it was years ago (at last in most areas), they appear to be getting worse results than state education, and the religious right has had very little influence on the curriculum here - while there is religious content in the curriculum it is inclusive of most viewpoints, including atheism, and is structured in a compare & contrast style. Plus parents are able to opt their children out of it.
Sample size 10.
Values 8, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 1.
Average: 4.9
Re-check your math, please.
This is limited to the kids you know. Don't you think that there is a selection bias at work there?
http://conservapedia.com/chemistry
Good learnings their. Teached me real gud!
I hope your boys have a sister, or else they won't know how to talk to girls in later life. OTOH, a great future in Linux driver development beckons for them.
Maybe the problem is parents not taking enough interest in their children's education. Do your own research. Take a look at the university entrance requirements. Join the P&C (or whatever the school parent body is in your area).
I am on the exec of my childs P&C and get a chance to talk to the principal at every meeting. Makes a hell of a difference. Speaking to another parent on that same exec who had a troubled son, she said the only thing that prevented him getting expelled for poor behaviour was the fact that she was on speaking terms with the people that matter.
We live in a society that specialises. Sure we can fix our cars / build our houses, grow our own food etc, but economies of scale and specialised knowledge make it beneficial to do outsource. Same goes for education.
The mistake many parents make is that once outsourced they take no further interest. I see formal education as a starting point.There are a whole raft of things not covered by the education system, or not in sufficient detail. Little things like how to use basic household tools, practical gardening and cooking. And bigger things like how to navigate safely around a foreign country.
Punishing kids over stupid shit like that?
What the fuck is wrong with you Americans these days? It's not the fault of the public schools, something is terribly wrong with your society. What kind of adults will these kids be tomorrow? Being raised like this, they'll accept being ruled by a fascist government without blinking.
My kids come home every day with bruises they get while playing. They don't care, I don't care, they're enjoying life. They tell me about the arguments they have with other kids. Great, they're learning to socialise! Sometimes it makes them angry or sad. Great, get fucking used to it! You're going to face shit that makes you angry or sad during the rest of your lives! Cope with the bad stuff and enjoy the good stuff! That's life! If you don't learn it while you're young, you'll be a frustrated and miserable adult! I'm there to help them learn about life with the best possible support, I'm not there to protect them from every possible little fucking thing that might possibly challenge them.
I guess this "Zero tolerance" stupidity is caused by schools living in terror of being sued by paranoid parents. Sane people like you should band together and take a stand against those people. Or else, a tiny minority of over-paranoid soccer moms with too much time in their hands will totally fuck your kids' future together with their own's.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
I know it may be controversial, but how about trying sending him to a real school staffed by real, qualified teachers.
I've been in school most of my life (I'm european, and my path looked like this: primary 8yrs, high-school 4yrs, university 6yrs, phd 3yrs) and I must admit one thing: public education really sucks. I've met very few competent teachers throughout my education. And most of them taught my native language, english or maths. Biology, physics and chemistry - were always taught by the worst teachers. Old methods, no examples, just plain blackboard teaching... Physics got better on university, where my professor was really first-class teacher. But chemistry in primary and high-school - was absolutly the worst. If only my country legislature wasn't so damn totalitarian, I'd be happy to homeschool my own children. I really envy those of You in US which can homeschool your children.
The grandchild is below-average in reading, but what the OP doesn't say if that is because of the lack of effort or ability from the parents or if that is from the lack of aptitude of the child, if the problem is his aptitude then I would wager that he has improved since coming home based solely on the student teacher ratio. Honestly our public school system is excellent at churning out below average students, so it doesn't devastate me that the home schooled student is "below average" in this case. I think that the parents are irresponsible if they are not making adjustments for it, however a key point to notice is that Grandpa is posting this from the perspective of "how can I make science more interesting and engaging?" instead of "how can I get my grandchild out of the clutches of his parents and into the public school?" this indicates that he is 1) actively involved in the education process 2) trying to make adjustments to improve the education of the child. The second is key, because honestly that doesn't happen in public schools.
/. so let us begin with the vague generalizations...
So bottom line, there are other factors which should be considered when rushing to judgement, but hey this is
$diff terrorists hippies
$
$rm -rf *terrorists *hippies
It's worth noting that fully 50% of students in public school are reading at a "below average" level.
By definition of "average", this does not surprise me :)
If he dropped out of High School to be homeschooled and get his GED, then it was probably too late to be starting home school. In High School if everything was going fine, his grades were good, no discipline problems, then there is no reason to change that. If there is problems, then more than likely you will not be able to rectify them along with the normal teen angst in the 3-4 years remaining in his High School years.
I really enjoyed chemistry because of Dr. Jay L. Wile.
http://www.amazon.ca/s?_encoding=UTF8&search-alias=books-ca&field-author=Jay%20L.%20Wile
I've been in school most of my life (I'm european, and my path looked like this: primary 8yrs, high-scool 4yrs, university 6yrs, phd 3yrs) and I must admit one thing. Public education really sucks. I've met very few competent teachers throughout my education. And most of them taught my native language, english and maths. Biology, Physics and Chemistry - were always taught by the worst teachers. Old methods, no examples, just plain blackboard teaching... Physics got better on university, where my professor were really first class teacher. But chemistry in primary and high-scool - was absolutly the worst. If only my countrys legislature wasn't so damn totalitarian, I'd be happy to homeschool my own children. I really envy those of You in US which can homeschool your children.
I started my schooling (not nursery/kindergarten) in Scotland at 4 although I understand that England and Wales do it a year later. We do not follow the same academic pattern that most /. readers in the USA will be familiar with.
I'll see your Constitution and raise you a Queen.
I know this isn't what you are looking for, but you're post has me a little concerned. Especially this part. "He is home educated and doesn't read as well as schooled kids of his age." If this is the case then I worry about this child's future. I'm assuming the child is probably in about 5th grade age wise, but if he can't read as effectively as his peers then it is likely he is closer to a 3rd or 4th grade level. He is nearing the age where he should be going to middle school, and it would be my suggestion that his parents stop homeschooling the child and send him to middle school. If these basic deficiencies aren't cleared up soon this child will have major problems in his education going forward, and it seems obvious to me that his family isn't doing enough to educate the child.
You only get out of your education what you put in. It's rare that the teacher fails the child; it's common that the child fails himself. Blaming the school or the system is a lot like being mad at the church for what a single priest does. the school and the system exist to handle the child's progress from teacher to teacher; most teacher's I've met care a lot more about what they're teaching than the children do, so it's up to the child to make the effort and demonstrate to the teacher that he wants to learn. Oh, a subject is too boring? That's your own darned fault or limitation.
Remember kids, if you're not paying for the service, YOU ARE THE PRODUCT THAT IS BEING SOLD.
Agreed. And you're a person, not a duck. Now that we've gotten that out of the way, I think that Salem's Hypothesis is interesting. Here, I post it word for word here for those who might not want to click through a link.
In any Evolution vs. Creation debate, A person who claims scientific credentials and sides with Creation will most likely have an Engineering degree.
And
An education in the Engineering disciplines forms a predisposition to Creation/ID viewpoints
The first premise doesn't really apply to this debate since we're arguing "Do religious people enter careers that are not related to the church and useful to society?" We're not having a Creationism vs Evolution debate. Nor am I inviting anyone to enter such a debate.
The second point says that engineers tend to form a predisposition to intelligent design. To summarize, Those whose role in society it is to create are more likely to believe in a Creator That makes sense to me. So to summarize even further Those whose role in society is to create are more likely to be 'religious'. So let me take that as the first premise of the argument you're building for me.
Here's my second premise: "Those whose role in society is to create is useful to society"
So my conclusion: "Therefore those who are religious may occupy jobs that are useful to society"
It's obvious that you were trying to refute me somehow since I've offended your religious beliefs, but you actually strengthen my argument. Congratulations. :)
those 'qualified educators' scheduled
Looks like the advisers are the ones that scheduled his classes.
For context, I was homeschooled 6th-10th grades, went to a private school for 11th, then left to dual-enroll in a local community college for my senior year.
If "formal" chemistry education is what you are looking for at some point and no local home school group offers it, then do it yourself! What I mean by that is, organize a class in conjuction with other local homeschool parents. When I needed my language courses in 9th/10th grade, we found a professor at a local university who was willing to come teach 15-20 kids - we all just paid him directly.
There are also plenty of video and online type homeschool courses for the various subjects. Homeschooling is a big business, since many people (religious or not) are sick of the public school systems.
So you've never heard of kids being made fun of for being "stupid" or "retarded?" Man, you must have lived in the Twilight Zone. Kids tend to go after people they perceive to be on both sides of the bell curve.
FYI all of this occurred in the Florida, Treasure Coast area.
Well, THERE'S your problem. Florida has one of the lowest ranking school systems in the nation. I have lived in Florida most of my life and I have watched the school system fall down on the job for as long as I have been here. My nephews are an embarrassment. They can't spell and have horrible grammar. I am surprised they were able to graduate high school.
There is no "-1 offended" or "-1 you don't agree with me" mod options for a reason.
This is absolutely the best advice I have seen so far. I would take it one step further and use this as an opportunity to learn chemistry together. There is a lot of chemistry going on in the kitchen everyday in the form of Baking, Cooking, Frying, etc. And this will also cross-educate into biology. There are entire college-level (I'm sure an age appropriate level can be found) curriculum around cooking chemistry. There's even a certain amount of chemistry in cars which then cross-educates into engineering and physics. *** The best place to start is asking what the student is interested in researching, join in, and learn along side. ***
If he went to schools in Florida similar to the ones I attended, when one hit high school, the counselors told one what one needed to graduate and proceed to one's desired future path (college, trade school, etc.) and it was up to oneself to pick a schedule of classes that met the requirements. One was responsible for one's own schedule, just like one would be in college.
There is no "-1 offended" or "-1 you don't agree with me" mod options for a reason.
You're correct; I misspoke. Treat that post as if I'd said "below median".
Sounds like his kid is not going to get a better education because no one in his family knows anything about chemistry.
There is no "-1 offended" or "-1 you don't agree with me" mod options for a reason.
Socialization is the process of creating the social patterns that society hopes to create to integrate a child into productive adulthood. That is, it's the human equivalent of training a puppy to be the sort of dog the family wants around the house. People like you don't seem to understand that socialization and socializing are only related insofar as the latter sometimes provides opportunities for the former. Socializing qua socializing is not socialization. Indeed, it can undermine proper socialization if not controlled among kids. You don't give children the socialization they need by making their primary experiences be with other children, but rather with adults who can show them the proper social behaviors of adulthood.
The homeschoolers I've known (almost all religious homeschoolers) are far better socialized than many of my peers were. More mature, more responsible and capable of functioning in adult society than the average public schooler. That's one reason I am wholeheartedly in favor of home schooling. Most of the "social lessons" I learned in the public schools would more likely kill my career by virtue of getting me sued or arrested than help me function as an adult.
Exactly. Which is why the blanket recommendation that he be put in public school so that he might benefit from the instruction of "qualified" instructors was stupid. This kid and his home schooling environment may be such that he would actually benefit from attending public school, but we can't know that from the simple fact that he's reading below level. You might as well assert without justification that public school kids who are reading below level should instead be home schooled.
The reading level of students has been directly linked to whether the parents read and read to and with their children. Educational success has been directly linked to both of those as well as whether education is valued in the home. If his son is reading below level, either the son has a reading disability, is not being properly instructed, or the family doesn't value reading as much as one would think.
There is no "-1 offended" or "-1 you don't agree with me" mod options for a reason.
Making things blow up is now a felony. Creating a destructive device, creation of a device of mass destruction, etc.
There is no "-1 offended" or "-1 you don't agree with me" mod options for a reason.
Yup...you're definitely a product of the flawed education system in this country. "Now I have a 8 year old boy...", I guess they never taught you "A,E,I,O,U and sometimes Y". Properly spoken it should read, "Now I have an 8 year old boy..."
Also, we homeschool our children and they belong to a Co-op that pays teachers to come in and teach our children certain classes, like chemistry and other sciences, but in a much more controlled environment unencumbered by the NEA's incessant need to socially engineer our children to accept their idea of a perfect utopian society.
I bet he will learn much better than in school if you just give him access to khanacademy.org videos.KhanAcademy has large collection of education videos and what more khan academy is backed by google!
Making an argument from ignorance has nothing to do with wisdom.
"It's too bad that stupidity isn't painful." - Anton LaVey
well, everyone is stupid. there are no qualifiers.
insensitive clod overlords obligatory xkcd car analogy russian reversals whoosh pedant fanbois ftfy in 3...2...1..PROFIT
Not necessarily true. Plenty of kids raised in strict anything go wildly off the rails when they get the first opportunity to remove those shackles.
It may not be an actual course structure, but if you want to do some fun experiments look at Steve Spangler Science. It has lots of interesting projects and experiments along with the instructions and descriptions of what you are learning about and what is happening. I bought some plastic tubes (2L bottle preforms) for geocaching containers and even they came with a dozen experiments you can use them for. I have also seen some really fun looking books at the library for experiments to do with kids.
-- ssoorrrryy,, dduupplleexx sswwiittcchh oonn.. -Quote found on actual fortune cookie.
OP here. There have been some useful replies to my post, particularly the recommendations of books and on-line resources. Thanks to everyone who posted these. I have already followed up on several and have arranged to spend time with the kids regularly doing science experiments. I plan to focus on explosions, smoke and bad smells which, I think, are the things to keep kids interested. Once they've seen an explosion etc, I hope they will also listen to an explanation of what caused it.
I'll respond to some of the things that have been said here to clarify what is going on:
1) The boy's parents are hippies, not religious. He seems unusually bright to me, but I am obviously biased.
2) There are a lot of home schooled kids in the area and several well-attended support groups. These groups are mostly social, not educational. This area has perhaps the highest population of "alternative" types in the UK.
3) None my grandchildren are forced to learn anything they don't want to. Forcing children to study stuff they can't stand is, IMO, abusive and a waste of everyone's time. My eldest grandchild is 12. She took to reading suddenly a couple of years ago and now reads at a very good adult level. When kids (or adults for that matter) want to learn something, they do it quickly. The eldest grandchild has decided for herself to attend high school to prepare for national exams.
4) At school, I did well in all sciences except chemistry. I don't believe I lacked aptitude, I believe if you wanted to put kids off the subject, you couldn't have done a much better job than the sadistic, boring teacher we had. That was about 45 years ago. Have things have improved? Or just changed?
It's worth noting that fully 50% of students in public school are reading at a "below average" level. The OP says his grandson isn't reading "as well as schooled kids his age". Which schooled kids? Where does the grandson fall on a percentile basis? It's a near certainty there are some kids in the public system that are performing even worse than the grandson despite having received instruction from "qualified" individuals.
Doofus, it means he's reading below grade level. Most home schooled kids should not be home schooled, obviously this kid couldn't do much worse and the school can actually design an IEP, should he have a disability, to help catch him up to grade level as well as offer additional academic supports (such as speech therapy or individualized homework) should he need them.
Just because a job has people that specialize in the task doesn't mean those people do a better job. Sure. We could can send our children to the public school every day to be taught by people who specialize in education. We could also send them to Little Ceaser's every day to be fed by people that specialize in cooking.
Specialization != competence
How can the parent be described as a 0-score post?
This is crystal-clear moderation abuse.
Please mod up to recover my Karma.
Exactly the opposite. The grandfather specifically said that the chemistry taught in public schools is below his standards, and is in the process of making sure that his grandson get a better education than that.
Let's first be honest... the Florida educational system is among the worst in the entire world. I first started high school in Westbury, NY where it was common for the average student to have completed... with college credit calculus 1 as well as AP English. The principle demanded high academic achievement from his students. He cared less about standardized tests and focused entirely on educating the students. We had places on school grounds to smoke, we were allowed to leave campus during lunch etc... We earned his trust and generally deserved it. As a result, he got state and federal budgets to build computer and engineering labs that were beyond most universities in quality.
When I moved to Florida, things were much different. When my father pulled up to the admissions office with me, there were two police patrol cars parked out front of the principles office. When we went in, I asked "Why are there police cars here?" The principle told me, the school had two full time police officers on campus. I asked her "Do you have such big problems at your school that this is justified?" and she informed me in so many words that apparently the administration was incapable of controlling their own school and therefore needed all the help the could get. Students kept trying to leave school grounds during the day and they were generally unruly and there were major issues with racial "wars" on the campus. Then she continued to inform me about how there was a pizza hut in the cafeteria and that they were one of the top rated schools in Pinellas county. And yet, the most advanced math they offered was trigonometry and that students are allowed (in fact punished if the don't) use calculators on exams. The teacher of the course was named "Coach Nick" and he spent about 50% of each class hitting on the cheerleaders in the front of the class and yapping about how "He would have gone pro... but".
Frankly, there are good public schools and piss poor ones. Apparently in Florida, the schools have terrible budgets and generally favor business administrators as opposed to educators for leadership positions. The voting majority... you know... those wrinkled up prune-like things with blue hair prefer the tax money to be spent on things like prisons as opposed to schools since having a place to send those uneducated, unruly brats when they leave school is more effective than educating them so they can be productive members of society. See the problem is, prisons solve the problem now, schools take 7-10 years to improve the situation and they'll be dead by then. If you ask them "What about their grand children?"... well that's easy... "They live in Michigan".
The poster above said "maybe he should be sent to school so that he can get taught by qualified educators", my experience in Florida suggests this means a private school. In the entire Dunedin High School which had a huge number of students and teachers, there were only a handful of "Qualified" educators.
I in fact was suspended for two weeks for walking off campus to go somewhere I could get a healthy lunch as opposed to the stuff which has made America fat. I said "Fuck that" and was suspended for two more weeks. I then dropped out, got my GED and went to the Junior College instead.
I went to a high school where we had a great administration in New York and things were kept under control. We had all the freedom to do whatever we wanted but the administration made sure that we had more to gain through learning and behaving that otherwise. No police state... no zero tolerance bullshit. Just a great school with great teachers...
then I moved to Florida... and I saw how the other 90% lives.
> Why do we use acid (bleach) for some cleaning tasks but base (ammonia) for others? Definitely cover why you don't mix the two (bleach and ammonia)
Bleach is almost always a base.
Working by traditional, rote methods and happy accidents is not the same as having an understanding of organic chemistry.
That's not to say it's not useful, but the structure you dismiss is what we are talking about.
Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
This was the first comment I expected to read looking at this article, but this type of comment is too general and simply following the average stereotype that homeschooling isn't viable. Having been home schooled with the rest of my siblings until I was in 9th grade, and from there attending a private school, I contend that it is all in how parents go about homeschooling. In this instance, it sounds like the parents are most definitely not qualified to teach their kid, but in many cases, like my own, I am now attending college with a 4.0 GPA studying computer engineering.
I believe stereotypes about homeschooling are often times wrong. Many are correct, but they vary from case to case. Homeschooling is obviously 100% dependent upon the parents and therefore is completely different from family to family. I feel like your post though implies that one needs to have a teaching degree to effectively teach children. My father doesn't actually have a college degree (he is self taught in almost everything, and held an IT manager position at a pharmaceutical company, has done refrigeration work, and is now doing engineering work designing HVAC systems for industrial and business applications) My mother has a college degree and is a nurse in the NICU at a local hospital. My point, is despite their credentials, and obvious lack of a teaching degree, they were able to effectively teach me everything I needed to know to prepare myself for college. One key point, I will mention about homeschooling, is if you don't know how to teach something, and don't have the time to learn it, have someone who does understand it teach it.
I am not sure why this post is scored at a 5 for being insightful. I may be getting too defensive about this but he is practically saying that one can't teach with out the proper qualifications. Our society is so closed minded and under the impression that if you don't have a college degree or formal training in something you can't teach or practice it effectively. It is so often ignored that it is possible to teach yourself something and be as good or better than other people at it.
In this case, I feel sorry for the child who's parents are not helping him learn effectively, and such he SHOULD be sent to public school. Reading is the window to the world as my parents told me since I was 2 years old. It is very sad that this child is not a proficient reader at 8. His parents are clearly doing him a dis-service by not making sure that he gets a good education.
Good Chemistry: Make sure you have access to proper facilities, or get a good chemistry kit. Find the ones that have you grow crystal structures (and why those structures grow). There is not a single teaching solution for chemistry. I went in to a college chemistry lab for chemistry experiments. At the age of 10, I was making crystal farms in a test tube. To those that say homeschoolers don't get a good education, etc: I was homeschooled up until college. I never went to public and/or private school. I finished high school with a good grade on my ACT, and a fairly-high GPA. My older sister was the same as me. Homeschooling groups are not hard to find. Those that say they are don't know where/how to look. I'm extremely extroverted, I had more friends (And probably more mature friends) than most of the people I knew that went to public school. I participated in sports from the ages of 10-16. Most schools will let your kids join in on school sports, etc. (Even if it's not necessarily state law). My parents very rarely taught me anything. By the time I was 10, I had learned how to read at a level above what most people can hope to achieve (400 page books take me around an hour and a half to read, with around 96% comprehension). I taught myself everything. My parents are quite qualified to teach, however. My dad has his Ph.D in anatomy and physiology, my mom is an R.N. My dad teaches college genetics and microbiology courses. Good homeschooling curriculum teaches itself. If your kid is having to ask a lot of questions, try finding a book that teaches better. The only classes I have a remotely difficult time in now (Final year of a Comp Sci degree at the University) are the ones I didn't get a background in H.S. (Machine Architecture, etc.)
If it is below his standards, yet he doesn't know enough chemistry to teach to his standards, perhaps the grandfather isn't qualified to determine the level of chemistry being taught in public schools.
How does one know the quality of instruction if one does not know the subject well enough to teach it?
There is no "-1 offended" or "-1 you don't agree with me" mod options for a reason.
You appear to have defined "creation science" as the subset of claims made by "creationist scientists" which are not falsifiable.
Exactly
Social interaction definitely does not appear to be a high priority with too many in the home school crowd. We have a lot of them in our area. In my experience at least, many of them are very 'me-centric'.
Here is a perfect example of my experiences. My oldest was taking guitar lessons. The music school really works to get their students to practice and perform together. Sometimes a small group of students perform at a local restaurant for fun. It is really nice. All of the parents and kids have gotten to know each other over time. It is a nice community.
Twice a year, there are recitals. They are very typical events. Everyone shows up. The first child starts performing. All of the families watch and enjoy. At the end after the last child has performed, everyone leaves.
Last year, we were in the middle of our recital and suddenly more parents, kids and instruments entered the auditorium. One of the instructors picked up a microphone and explained that some of their home schooled students had formed a small band and they were going to perform in the recital.
Sounded like a great idea. I figured they had just arrived late. No problem. I’d love to hear them. So, immediately they took the stage. They played two songs. They sounded fine. Then the whole home school crowd (parents, children, instruments and all) just immediately picked up and left.
Oh, excuse me. I almost forgot. Two of the moms did stick around long enough to have an extended and very loud conversation in the auditorium while some of the remaining performers played their pieces.
Of course, the rest of the families stayed for the remainder of the recital and enjoyed watching each others' children perform.
And exactly which claims have they made which are falsifiable?
I imagine I'll be waiting a while for an answer to this one.
Presumably any such information would have been in the post because it is pretty essential to the post.
You are of course correct that we shouldn't assume the parents are religious fanatics. But even then the information provided clearly speaks against assuming that the parents are competent and/or acting with their child's best interest at heart. Based on the information given we can assume that either the kid has dyslexia and the parents have not gotten the kid diagnosed either through ignorance or neglect, either way that doesn't exactly speak in the parents favor.
Or the kid has substandard reading abilities because the parents have neglected properly teaching the kid again either through ignorance or willful neglect.
For whatever reason the parents does not seem competent or interested enough to home school their child.
There's a black belt in reading now? Are you serious?
You are not being serious are you? In case you are not. One does not need to be an expert on a subject to recognize when someone else isn't either.
Yes, punish them for doing completely harmless things because the rules say so! Teach them that the employees at the school are actually more childish than the students themselves!
Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
My opinion is that 99.999% of home schooled children are being robbed of opportunities and will be denied the ability to choose what could be best for them due to their parents short-comings/ignorance/prejudices/ignorance/etc.
Now all you need to do is perform a study to actually prove that before you go off advocating for any laws that restrict other people's freedom.
Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
http://www.khanacademy.org/search?page_search_query=chemistry
Not everything has to be taught by the parent. There are plenty of resources out there for home schoolers. Check out Pacific Coast High School in Orange County, CA. http://pchs.k12.ca.us/ They offer a variety of resources to home schoolers. I've even seen a Home School magazine, were parents share resources.
And remember, Google is your friend.
http://www.iupac.org/fileadmin/the-network/index.html
http://avogadro.openmolecules.net/wiki/Main_Page
If this child shows an interest in chemistry, I would immediately begin teaching him/her computational methods. Computational methods will allow the child to explore chemistry in a safe, quasi-unbounded manner.
Ditto here, especially the chemistry labs. Even in college, chem lab was tedious and almost nothing was learned.
But you can start by
At some point introduce formal "chemistry", which is mostly book-learning. By providing an understanding of the natural world, how to observe, and how to measure you will put him on a path where he will be ready to accept chemistry.
Oh, one last thing, that I didn't learn well until I first walked into a university chemistry lab: initially touch nothing, do nothing but observe what is already present, what it's settings, colors, readings, connections etc. are. Write them down, take pictures. And unlike the "scientists" in the new movie Prometheus, do not tempt fate by playing with anything, especially the cobra-like organism in the corner.
Metallurgy. Its historical. It has direct connections to some of the worlds largest industry. It can be done on a cool scale fairly safely. All sorts of stuff can be done with connections to electricity. Use a battery charger and use it to clean/restore rusted tools. Use coal+iron oxide to get the iron out. Connect to reaction series and why the same with aluminum oxide don't work and why so much electricity is needed to purify bauxite. All kinds of qualitative chem. Connections to real world shit. Hell take him to a local smithy who does it old school. Batteries. Damn. Its all right there. Make simple cells with salt+zinc+copper. Use it to connect to simple motors. There are a few years of science in this post. Oh also got elctrolosis of water. Collect gases. Examine the ratios produced. Afer a few of these inquiry things with note taking you can get into what these substances are called. What is reacting with what. Why. Numbers start happening.
I'm sorry. Your ideas are good for YOU. For a 10 year old, as I posted. Metallurgy! Purification of metals from rocks. ALl kinds of connections and easy to understand qualitative observations. Stoich in week 2? The kid will hate it!!
Thank you, whoever you are. I was losing my "faith" in well-educated people for a moment there. It is particularly difficult for those of us who are religious-hearted but science-minded, to find our way into the scientific community with much if any respect as soon as we mention a habit of church-going.
As for homeschooling, there is some evidence, at least in my school district, that home-schooled students are higher achievers over-all. So much so that the district offers a virtual school option for home-schooling families. The district has found it less expensive to offer support to home-schooling families than to try to accommodate all of the far-reaching goals and interests found in these students.
I am happy to say that it has been my policy to home-school each of my children up through elementary school and then give them the option. My eldest chose to go back to the public system so that she could participate in the IB program where she is excelling and is attending a pre-med-prep program in the hopes of becoming a pediatrician. My second child chose to stay in home-school and through the virtual school option is attending AP courses and will begin dual enrollment with the local community college through his last two years of high school. My youngest son, unfortunately went to public school through third grade. I wish I had been able to home school him from the start since his reading and mathematics education are severely lacking. I began home schooling him about two months ago and he is already showing vast improvement. Additionally, his previous dread of school and grudging attitude towards learning has been replaced with excitement to begin his studies each day.
People home school for many reasons and for just as many reasons, others don't. However, I sincerely hope that when my children are choosing an educational system for my grandchildren, they will agree with me that home school is the obvious choice and public school is the fall-back plan when you have no other option.
In my personal experience having been a child, something I realize many primary grade students have never experienced, my older sister could and did teach me a lot about and awaken an interest in chemistry, physics, etc., while a high school student and college frosh and I was in grade school. I watched her do the same with her youngest child, a daughter, then seven. Of course she ended up Teacher of the Year in her state a half-century later. Public high school chemistry with valences, etc., but no lab, except a few experiments I did myself at home, was interesting and easy, and I had planned a career in that direction. In college, the department head, who taught the freshman lecture, used something he called MAC equations instead of the usual valences etc. and I was and remained utterly lost, and, with a significant uncorrectable set of vision and coordination deficits, lab was tough, too. Nobody ever could explain why, in our first chem lab, everybody got issued a flask, a cork, and alcohol and chlorobenzene from the same supply, to be distilled apart, and my flask, but nobody else's, blew apart before getting heated, and with no fire. In four years of higher math in public high school, nobody told me I was doing all he graph problems, for example, a$$ backwards until the grader made that comment in college. With 70th percentile math and 99 3/4th percentile verbal scores, I switched direction and went to law school. We didn't learn until an MRI forty years later that the reason I couldn't hack college math, despite loving in in principle, knocking a chunk off my GPA, and nearly killing myself trying, was that I had been born without most of the corpus collossum, which connects the right and left hemispheres of the brain and is critical to higher math. We were not blessed with children by birth or adoption, but my friends who home-schooled, about all of whom were college educated, collaborated, and engaged in some "Jack Spratt" trading where someone good at higher math taught the group's kids that while someone else taught other things they knew better. I went to high school and college with children of illiterate immigrant coal miners who were taught critical things at home that students I knew as clients and employees never learned, and became experts in chemistry and other sciences. My late mother was a certified teacher and did manage to teach me one critical skill in pre-first grade. She tried to teach me other things, and briefly tried to home-school us, using nationally recognized materials, in 7th grade, and I remember most of those experiences as nightmares.
Cook some food. Put it in a bag. Go to the nearest university, find a chemistry lab. Find a grad student in it. Offer him the food and he'll probably do it for you :)