Microsoft Unveils Outlook.com, Hotmail's Successor

New submitter faraway writes "Microsoft has just unveiled Outlook.com, the planned successor to Hotmail.com. It includes a lot of what you'd expect from email today, including storage (images, data), a calendar, integration with other Microsoft tools, and of course a clean UI. According to ZDNet, 'Outlook.com is integrated with Windows and Office, and can pull in Twitter, Facebook, Gmail and LinkedIn contacts. The new mail client has the Metro look and feel. And it is providing users with more granular control over which ads they see and where they see them.'"

Comments

Fantastic first impressions

[h105]

I quickly looked over the new Outlook.com service and I must say I'm quite impressed. Everything is clear, there's folders (which are completely lacking from Gmail!), it works fast and the UI looks great.

Outlook.com is also an great domain name and easy to remember. The Facebook and Twitter integration works great and the whole thing feels just superb. I can't but recommend you to try it!

Re:Fantastic first impressions

[LordLimecat]

Obvious shill is obvious. Why dont you and faraway do us a favor and remove yourselves from the site?

Is slashdot's reputation really that low that companies dont think we'll see through such a blatant attempt?

Re:Fantastic first impressions

[CastrTroy]

One thing always lacking in Outlook was search. It was there, but it was slow, and could never seem to find stuff I was looking for. I don't know if things are better in recent years with Outlook's search capabilities, but basic stuff I read around the web says it hasn't don't miss folders in Gmail because I can just search for it. And if I really want to file something in a specific place, I can use tags. I see a lot of people stumble around for a long time trying to find things in outlook, clicking through 20 different folders. On my desktop I use Thunderbird, which has really good search capabilities. Now I just have to get people to type relevant stuff in the message, so I can actually search for it. The biggest problem with search for stuff (or filtering for sorting into folders if you insist on folders) is that people don't put any useful information in the email. They'll just send a message with a subject that says "look at this" and attach a jpeg with a screenshot. Makes the email impossible to find 2 days later.

Re:Fantastic first impressions

[Whalou]

I like the way Gmail implements their classification scheme, i.e. tagging, better than folders. With folders you're restricted to a tree structure but tagging allows you to classify an email in several categories by adding different tags.

What I ended up doing with my emails at work (in Outlook) was to put every old emails into a single folder to be able to use search.

Re:Fantastic first impressions

[VGPowerlord]

You mean to tell me that this account with no other posts, who has nothing bad to say about using an as-yet-unreleased product, lies about the competitors features, and also implies that the aforementioned competitors url (email with the first letter changed) is hard to remember is a shill?

I never would have guessed!

Re:Fantastic first impressions

[Anonymous Coward]

I think it's very much reverse trolling. Microsoft would consider doing this kind of thing on Slashdot a complete waste of time, but on the flip side it wouldn't be hard for a concerted effort by a FOSS-friendly group of trolls to further lower Microsoft's credibility.

Re:Fantastic first impressions

[BiggerBadderBen]

Seriously, cut this shit out. Every time an article with anything to do with Microsoft comes out, first post is from a new user and is full of praise. Nobody's buying it, so kindly cash your cheque from Redmond and fuck off

Re:Fantastic first impressions

[Anonymous Coward]

Only comments ever posted are about the article? Check.
All positive comments about the subject? Check.
Promotion of aspects of subject no actual user would care about? Check.

Because of your shilling, I will never, ever try it. Take this message back to your boss - the astroturfing attempt backfired, and actually turned users away.

Re:Fantastic first impressions

[Anonymous Coward]

It's a little too obvious. More likely it is an Apple or Linux shill.

Re:Fantastic first impressions

[Anonymous Coward]

Stop ! You are confusing the conspiracy theorists ( even further ).

Re:Fantastic first impressions

[R.Mo_Robert]

You mean to tell me that this account with no other posts, who has nothing bad to say about using an as-yet-unreleased product...

It is released, at least in the preview sense. I'm using it now (you can sign in with any Microsoft account, like an MSN or Passport one of old, in addition to the new outlook.com ones). Won't switch, but might make a new account for a junk address if I can get POP/SMTP access to it.

Re:Fantastic first impressions

[Anonymous Coward]

You assume it was Redmond with the post, it could very well be a competitor reverse astroturfing.

Microsoft doesn't give two shits about slashdot, nor does any other tech company.

Re:Fantastic first impressions

[not already in use]

Except that it is released, and you can go try it now. The UI is clean and responsive, at least that much is true. Not that any of the sexually repressed, RMS clones that troll slashdot have any interest in sharing an objective opinion regarding anything that isn't linux circa 4 years ago.

Re:Fantastic first impressions

[not already in use]

Exactly. The comment was way too obvious. Neckbeards are easily trolled.

Re:Fantastic first impressions

[GoNINzo]

You would have more influence if you actually had any history, anywhere. But you don't.

Why would I want to customize my advertisements, I like them unobtrusive. I doubt I could turn them off.
With tagging, who needs folders.
I doubt it will be faster than gmail, what with the extra javascript required for metro.
And who has trouble remembering their email address domain? Seriously?
And why would I want integration for my email.
And of course it's your honest opinion, you were most likely paid for this.

Seriously, just get out.

Re:Fantastic first impressions

[Anonymous Coward]

My guess it's someone's trolling/karma whoring experiment. Just check out this guy. Chimes in the first minute of the story about black-outs in India and proposes MS Research (link to MSR front page) has a solution, and it's likely wind power. Gets modded up and stays modded up for quite a long time.

Can't see any reason for this beyond checking how easy it is to manipulate /. mods.

Re:Fantastic first impressions

[metrix007]

Do you really think Microsoft wastes time on Slashdot, trying to persuade an audience who are not worth the time, even if it were possible?

Occam's razor infers that the account is just an account. Given the new service *is* quite nice, I don't find it hard to believe.

But then, I'm not one for conspiracy theories.

Re:Fantastic first impressions

[N1ckR]

If the domain is so good why does it redirect to a live.com domain ?

Re:Fantastic first impressions

[mcgrew]

I quickly looked over the new Outlook.com service and I must say I'm quite impressed.

I just looked in the litter box today, and I must say, I'm quite impressed.

Everything is clear

That would be a first for MS! We have Outlook at work (the dedicated email program) and it's the worst email client I've ever used. You have to log into the webmail component to change your email password, the password criteria are different than the mainframe and network password criteria, there are limits to mailbox and message sizes (we never had that BS with Novell's client), and they just, as Microsoft always does, completely changed the webmail interface; they moved "change password" from "Options" to the uper right hand corner, with white on yellow text. What kind of moron designs that sort of idiocy?

it works fast and the UI looks great.

I simply don't believe you. Sometimes it takes hours for an email to get to me from down the damned hall, we never had that problem with Novell and I never saw that problem with any other email system, either.

By the way, which division of Microsoft do you work for? Marketing? Because since they switched to Outlook, I hear nothing but complaints at work.

Outlook.com is also an great domain name and easy to remember.

What is so easy to remember about "outlook" unless you've been using outlook and outlook express for years? Hotmail at least had the name "mail" in in. This change from hotmail to outlook seems utterly retarded to me.

I can't but recommend you to try it!

No fucking way.

Re:Fantastic first impressions

[MightyMartian]

As honest as opinion as can be bought.

Re:Fantastic first impressions

[KhabaLox]

I don't know if things are better in recent years with Outlook's search capabilities,

I've found search to be much improved (finally) in Outlook 2010 and Windows 7. While I still file everything into countless folders, I will more often than not search for something and find it more quickly. And I've started using the Win7 search function on the "Start" menu to find programs, rather than navigating the All Programs labyrinth.

Re:Fantastic first impressions

[Anonymous Coward]

You're one of the BIGGEST DORKS this site has: STFU already! Everyone knows you're some "anti-microsoft" idiot around here. Don't you realize that's obvious to the rest of us and anyone else reading here? This isn't the "Linux only" website you know!

Re:Fantastic first impressions

[Chemisor]

When people don't put any useful information in their messages, you don't need to find those messages 2 days later. In fact, you may as well skip reading them the first time, and just file under "Miscellaneous".

Re:Fantastic first impressions

[faraway]

I'm glad you are so worldly and know so much about me.

Re:Fantastic first impressions

[jhoegl]

There is no conspiracy, this is standard business practice.
But if you have doubts, just read what they posted. They pointed out a competitor and made a false claim. Its like politics, but for business.

Re:Fantastic first impressions

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh no! Someone praising a Microsoft product must be a shill. Slashdot reputation is already crap because of people like you.

Re:Fantastic first impressions

[Sperbels]

The service may be nice, or it might not be. That's not the point. The point is, the guy *was* obviously a shill. Microsoft does waste time here. This is not the exclusive enclave for hardcore linux geeks that you think it is.

You may not be one for conspiracies, but conspiracies abound where money is to be made. Maybe you're a shill for the shill.

Re:Fantastic first impressions

[Anonymous Coward]

This is the webified version though and the search is done using indexes and therefore fast. Outlook on the desktop also has had the option to use search indexing for a while through the Windows Search service. I think since Outlook 2007.

Re:Fantastic first impressions

[SJHillman]

It sounds like you have some pretty major implementation problems at work. Outlook is a long way from perfect, but it's certainly not the worst client I've ever used. I'll take it over GroupWise any day and it gives Thunderbird a run for its money on many fronts.

Re:Fantastic first impressions

[Yvanhoe]

I personally hold a grudge to outlook for a different reason : back in 2007 it had refused for almost 10 years (don't know if it ended up accepting it) to follow a RFC that allowed to send an email with a crypto signature and public key attached in the header. I wanted to use a good crypto in my emails but because a signed email looked ugly in outlook and that many professional contacts were still using it, I chose to abandon the idea.

Re:Fantastic first impressions

[zekard]

Outlook.com rocks!! Switched from gmail and good riddance. gmail is the new spam mail account.

Re:Fantastic first impressions

[Anonymous Coward]

I work for one of the world's largest software vendors (not MS), and I know our PR/PM/Marketing folks do indeed care about Slashdot. They don't lose a great deal of sleep over it, true, but they are interested in what's said here about our products.

(And no, I don't work for any of those divisions--I'm in development/support.)

Re:Fantastic first impressions

[Anonymous Coward]

So you fucked up the installation of Outlook and it's Microsoft's fault?

Re:Fantastic first impressions

[metrix007]

No, it's not obvious. It's speculation because someone praised a product from 'the enemy'.

Re:Fantastic first impressions

[Sperbels]

I don't know. During the internet bubble I had some business analyst colleagues who would post obvious crap like this on forums trying to pump up stocks. One of them made a post like this. Then another would reply with more of the same. They had no idea how ridiculous their posts looked.

Re:Fantastic first impressions

[Missing.Matter]

With tagging, who needs folders.

Not everyone is down on the semantic labeling concept. Some people like plain old folders. For example my girlfriend switched back instantly from the new Gmail to the old one for that very reason. Now she's stuck with the new Gmail and hates it. Both are available depending on your preference in Outlook.

And who has trouble remembering their email address domain? Seriously?

Obviously he meant easy to remember for other people, not easy to remember for yourself.

And why would I want integration for my email.

I have all of my facebook contacts and their emails instantly available in my contacts list. If I want to email a friend, instead of hopping on facebook to find their email, it's right there. Very convenient.

Re:Fantastic first impressions

[Missing.Matter]

I think he means "nothing bad to say about an unfinished product," as in someone with a balanced opinion on the issue should point out the positive points as well as the shortcomings. For example, the new site is completely unusable on Opera, and the calendar and skydrive still links back to the old hotmail view. These shortcomings will hopefully be fixed. Another shortcoming is to view a picture slideshow requires silverlight. This shortcoming will probably not be fixed.

Re:Fantastic first impressions

[flappinbooger]

And of course it's your honest opinion, you were most likely paid for this.

Seriously, just get out.

How far we have come where the marketing campaign for a new product of this scale involves paying someone a living wage to "go out to websites like slashdot and pretend to be a real person who is excited about this new project."

Good grief. FacePalm.

There are shills everywhere though... http://plasticmacca.blogspot.com/2012/04/confessions-of-ex-internet-shill.html

A google search will reveal many others. This is big business??!??!? I wonder if I could be a paid shill... it would have to be for something I actually liked though. Meh.

Re:Fantastic first impressions

[pkinetics]

Password change - So someone separated the authentication for the email from the LDAP / AD, require additional sign on? What kind of network admins do you have?

Takes hours to receive email - Sounds like a network configuration issue. Either that or the spam filtering is FUBAR. Again, sounds like network configuration. See your admin. File a complaint and get it in the resolution queue.

And make sure you are not working in offline mode.

Oh, and make sure the person down the hall didn't forget to actually send the message, rather than having it stick around in their Outbox waiting to send.

Re:Fantastic first impressions

[Darinbob]

Folders are great. If someone doesn't like them then don't use them.

Re:Fantastic first impressions

[amRadioHed]

Not everyone is down on the semantic labeling concept. Some people like plain old folders. For example my girlfriend switched back instantly from the new Gmail to the old one for that very reason.

I'm confused. Gmail has never had plain old folders. If anything they've improved the interface for people who prefer plain folders (like me) since adding the "Move to" menu in addition to the "Labels" menu.

Re:Fantastic first impressions

[citylivin]

Its not just praise, its a glowing recommendation. From a brand new account with two posts? FP posted the exact minute the article was posted? "A great domain name, and easy to remember" Really? Thats what makes it a pro service, that its got "brand recognition"? What slashdotter would recommend something based on branding!!! no one would!!!

  Don't even get me started on their use of proper punctuation!! Look at all them commas!

are you really that naive?

he says the word great like 3 times. No one but advertisers, PHB's and marketers say the word great that many times. Not to mention superb. Who says that? someone siting in a microsoft corner office - that's who!

 

"I can't but recommend you to try it!"

You can see where the marketeer tried to improvise the end there without getting the copy signed off on. Everybody wants to be creative! stick to the script marketdroid!

Re:Fantastic first impressions

[unk98]

I use the Instant Search functionality for Outlook (uses "Windows Search" I believe). It completely indexes your email and attachments and I find email from several years back in only a few seconds. You can even search for tags with "categories:junk" or for specific things like "from:joe hasattachment:yes sent:2010". I believe that has been there since Outlook 2003, definitely with 2007.

Re:Fantastic first impressions

[not already in use]

In fairness, twitter isn't usable in opera either because it is unable to process so many lines of non semi-colon delimited javascript statements.

Re:Fantastic first impressions

[kenboldt]

With tagging, who needs folders.

Not everyone is down on the semantic labeling concept. Some people like plain old folders. For example my girlfriend switched back instantly from the new Gmail to the old one for that very reason. Now she's stuck with the new Gmail and hates it. Both are available depending on your preference in Outlook.

This is complete nonsense. If you like the idea of folders, then treat labels like folders. There is even a button that looks like a... *shock* FOLDER, and when you click it, it allows you to "move" any selected emails to a folder (label). Then if you want to find all the emails that you filed in any particular folder (label) you click on the appropriate folder name (label name). It works EXACTLY like folders, but with the added benefit that if you wish, you can apply multiple labels to your emails, so that is just like copying an email to multiple folders, except you don't have to actually copy it and any replies or forwards for that email are all kept together instead of being copied individually all over the place.

If someone can't figure out that labels can be used exactly like folders, then they have no business using the series of tubes we call the interwebs.

Re:Fantastic first impressions

[Missing.Matter]

Yeah sounds like you're right. I don't really use gmail, as I have my own web accont, but her complaint was that her "folders were gone." On second thought it seems like she probably just couldn't find them.

Re:Fantastic first impressions

[fa2k]

The search in Outlook 2007 and 2010 is certainly better than Thunderbird's search, if that says anything.

Re:Fantastic first impressions

[Missing.Matter]

Thanks for the sarcasm, snark, and general condescension which eclipse an otherwise valid point. You're a real asset to the Internet.

Re:Fantastic first impressions

[eedwardsjr]

You can still use the Labels as folders. With Labs you can set them to have a parent/child relationship to look like traditional folders. The Outlook.com looks slick and they are including intergration to several sources. It should be really nice and I'm sure people will love it. It might be a good Grandma/non-techie solution. I am not giving up my gmail though.

Re:Fantastic first impressions

[hobarrera]

I agree on all but one point you mention: tags.
I have no use for tags. I've a few folders where predefined sieve filters move new emails, and one big massive "Archives" folder, with years as subfolders.
Whenever I need to look for an old email, I just use the search tool. Couldn't get easier than that.

Re:Fantastic first impressions

[eedwardsjr]

No proof, but pretty sure they do. Newer Accounts and no/low post counts. They are rather easy to spot.

Re:Fantastic first impressions

[hobarrera]

Try using labels as folders through IMAP. You can't. Deleting email actually removes the tag, and a few other unfriendly behaviours. Plus, the "All Mail" folder/label messes up syncronization a lot, since it duplicates all emails (again, through IMAP).

Re:Fantastic first impressions

[eedwardsjr]

Not sure how much you get, but they have all my spam filtered out a heck'va lot better than hotmail. I swapped in 2005 and was getting pounded with spam. So I wonder how good their spam filters will be in the re-write.

Re:Fantastic first impressions

[dave562]

It is better in Outlook 2010 but still not as good as GMail. In my case it displays some really odd behavior when I am searching for people's names. It will completely leave out emails that I know are in a given folder and from a particular person. It really does not make any sense.

Now that I think about it, the only real improvement is the search speed. It seems like they are building better indexes. Or maybe they're finally using all 8 cores and 12GB of RAM that I have. The results are still pretty sub-par. It is not as if I am trying to search the entire effin internet. I just need to find an email from two weeks ago that I know was sent to me by "firstname lastname"

Re:Fantastic first impressions

[GameboyRMH]

It's obviously high from a marketing standpoint but they think the crowd's intellect is on par with Digg or Reddit :-P

Re:Fantastic first impressions

[eedwardsjr]

Dude most of that is configuration. Mailbox sizes are dictated by your Exchange administrators. Syncing your mainframe password with your Active Directory account has nothing to do with Exchange/Outlook. While you can use it to change your password, you should be doing it through the OS through either Ctrl-Alt-Delete or old school (like me) through the command line.

Re:Fantastic first impressions

[Captain Hook]

That someone is someone who has never posted on any other slashdot story before, and who managed to get first post, posting in the same minute that the story went live.

That means that they joined, subscribed to get the preview of the story just to say how much they liked the outlook.com preview. Thats what they call dedication.

Re:Fantastic first impressions

[just_a_monkey]

Could it be unpaid fanbois? Is Microsoft the new Apple?

Re:Fantastic first impressions

[kenboldt]

You must be new here.

Re:Fantastic first impressions

[mcgrew]

What kind of network admins do you have?

Not good ones, obviously.

See your admin. File a complaint and get it in the resolution queue.

I'm too close to retiring to worry about it. There are more than one network admin (thousands of employees) and they have one guy from each shop take care of stuff like password resets and the like.

But God, I'll be glad when I'm out of this place! I'd retire today if I could live on just the pension, but I only have 2 years before I'm eligible for SS.

Re:Fantastic first impressions

[Missing.Matter]

Because of your shilling, I will never, ever try it. Take this message back to your boss - the astroturfing attempt backfired, and actually turned users away.

Astroturfer - "Sir, a new report is in. Anonymous Coward says he will never use the new Outlook because of our efforts"
Boss, obscured sitting in a high back arm chair, Dr. Claw style - "How.... disappointing..."
Boss slowly revolves in his arm chair, revealing himself to be.... LARRY PAGE *gasp!* - "...for Microsoft! Our plan is working perfectly! Mwahahahaha"

Re:Fantastic first impressions

[Anonymous Coward]

Yo know what works fast?
Mutt + Local IMAP Mirror in a maildir.

Re:Fantastic first impressions

[Anonymous Coward]

That could be anyone though and it's far more likely to be a random anti-MS person than someone in the employ of Microsoft.

Re:Fantastic first impressions

[mcgrew]

I didn't install it, I do database programming. Used to use NOMAD on the mainframe and loved it, now I'm stuck with (UGH!) Access on a PC.

Re:Fantastic first impressions

[Kaenneth]

But...But... Someone is WRONG on the Internet! this MUST be STOPPED!

Re:Fantastic first impressions

[Anonymous Coward]

That means that they joined, subscribed to get the preview of the story just to say how much they liked the outlook.com preview. Thats what they call dedication.

No asterisk next to the name, therefore not a subscriber. It is probably some Google or Apple fanboy with a subscriber account trying to convince the gullible that Microsoft actually sends people to shill on Slashdot.

Re:Fantastic first impressions

[metrix007]

Exactly.

Re:Fantastic first impressions

[Suddenly_Dead]

What's more, multiple people apparently modded him up, and multiple people have modded the call-out posts (including the parent) down. Just lovely.

Re:Fantastic first impressions

[Anonymous Coward]

I can't but recommend you to try it!

Or vagina.

Re:Fantastic first impressions

[Anonymous Coward]

Damn, now you have me confused. Am I supposed to call you a shill because you said something good about Outlook or am I supposed to login and give you a mod point because you were informative? Arghh! I don't know what to do!

Re:Fantastic first impressions

[KhabaLox]

If someone can't figure out that labels can be used exactly like folders, then they have no business using the series of tubes we call the interwebs.

It's only in the last, what, 18 months? that labels could have parent/child relationships. I still have label names with slashes in them from when I used Gina Trapani's plugin that made the original gmail labels act like folders.

Re:Fantastic first impressions

[Anonymous Coward]

It's not that I don't believe there are paid shills on the Internet, but you're linking to a blog of a guy who believes Paul McCartney is dead and has been replaced by a CIA agent. It's hardly a credible source.

Re:Fantastic first impressions

[mellyra]

Sometimes it takes hours for an email to get to me from down the damned hall, we never had that problem with Novell and I never saw that problem with any other email system, either.

email is not designed to be delivered within any specific timeframe (something all the "click the link in the email we just sent you to activate your account" services would do very good to remember) - if you want instant communication than use a proper IM.

as for domain name/brand recognition - I use fastmail.fm for my primary email account and while I am very happy with the service and functionality they provide it is kinda annoying that I have to spell out the domain name three times every time I give someone my email address (not living in an english-speaking country) - people are familiar with gmail.com, yahoo.com, hotmail.com and 1-2 local email providers and would immediately recognize outlook (because they already associate it with email) but hvaing an unfamiliar domain name causes considerable unnecessary trouble as non-technical people (a) don't know how to spell it and (b) get confused about such a non-standard email address (omg it ends in ".fm" are you sure that is correct? or ymail.com which nobody understands when you pronounce it in English and which can't be pronounced in the local language). You don't realize how important having a known domain in your email address is until you don't have one.

Re:Fantastic first impressions

[crutchy]

Could it be unpaid fanbois? Is Microsoft the new Apple?

where can i get hold of the new iWindows? does it come with rounded corners?

Re:Fantastic first impressions

[crutchy]

stick to the script marketbot

ftfy

Re:Fantastic first impressions

[crutchy]

except linux has nothing to gain from fanbois, whereas apple and microsoft depend on it (except microsoft's oem enslavement gives it an edge over apple), which is why torvalds doesn't really give a crap if stallman eats toe jam, and why a lack of viral fanaticism has led to the dismal failure of multiple microsoft product lines

the bigger companies get, the more they tend to eventually gravitate towards linux, which i very much doubt has anything to do with fanbois

Re:Fantastic first impressions

[zlives]

I just jumped oon there to see it myself, looks like hotmail mostly with some added features. what i did notice was a lack of ads.
its obvious that ms is finally using exchange to host and publish hotmail.

Re:Fantastic first impressions

[Dynedain]

What labels don't do (and this drives me nuts in Google docs) is exclusions.

For example, apply a label. The item still appears in your main list.
Move something into a folder. The item no longer appears in your main list.

I've got a whole bunch of documents I work on with a non profit. I have them all labeled. Google Docs even goes as far as to show me a "folder" representing that label. But what I don't have is a view that shows me everything that's unlabeled. Maybe I forgot to tag one of those documents. Maybe I want to look at a list of my other docs that aren't associated with the non profit. These are use cases that are not supported by labels. (They could be, but it depends on the UI developers providing work-around solutions)

Re:Fantastic first impressions

[Anonymous Coward]

If someone can't figure out that labels can be used exactly like folders, then they have no business using the series of tubes we call the interwebs.

ok hotshot, riddle me this: How do attaching labels move mails out of my inbox/main list, and leaving the rest that I haven't 'moved'? Which for me is a significant function of using folders.

Re:Fantastic first impressions

[Anonymous Coward]

looks like hotmail

Seriously? Sure you got the right version? To me it looks nothing like Hotmail at all, completely different UX (for the better).

Re:Fantastic first impressions

[easyTree]

Outlook.com - All the machine-lagging, fifteen-levels-of-nested-dialog-boxes crapness of Outlook. Now on the web! Yay \o/

Re:Fantastic first impressions

[Anonymous Coward]

It's not that I don't believe there are paid shills on the Internet, but you're linking to a blog of a guy who believes Paul McCartney is dead and has been replaced by a CIA agent. It's hardly a credible source.

At least this thread provided a good laugh! Seriously though, if you think a Slashdot comment is worth any investment from any major company, IMHO you are seriously delusional about the value of our little, and dwindling, corner of the web. I'm convinced the recent spike of these first posts clearly are trolling, and they are reeling in people falling for it and feeding the trolls.

Re:Fantastic first impressions

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't want to learn how stuff works so everything needs to be adapted to work around me not knowing how to use it. Duh. No!

Re:Fantastic first impressions

[ozmanjusri]

Microsoft uses Burson Marsteller. They're very influential, and responsible for much of the big end of astrotuf and sock-puppetry.

http://www.jongreerconsulting.com/burson-marsteller-outed-as-microsofts-sock-puppet

http://www.prwatch.org/topics/public-relations/astroturf?page=6

http://www.bizjournals.com/sanjose/news/2012/07/19/microsoft-hires-burson-marsteller-ceo.html

Re:Fantastic first impressions

[easyTree]

No, it's not obvious. It's speculation because someone praised a product from 'the enemy'.

Whu? How are Apple involved?

Re:Fantastic first impressions

[easyTree]

It's nice to see some variant of the Streisand Effect at work here. First post by a shill-account and the whole conversation up to this point has been arguing about why it's clear that the obvious shill is an obvious shill. Nice work <whichever-marketing-company-won-this-particular-contract>.

Re:Fantastic first impressions

[Anonymous Coward]

The asterisk can be disabled by the user.

Re:Fantastic first impressions

[Anonymous Coward]

It's not a shill, it's a troll.

Re:Fantastic first impressions

[shutdown -p now]

Am I supposed to call you a shill because you said something good about Outlook or am I supposed to login and give you a mod point because you were informative? Arghh! I don't know what to do!

You can do both, just make sure to call him a shill while logged out so as not to cancel your moderation. ~

Re:Fantastic first impressions

[Greg Hullender]

Not quite true. I was at Microsoft 14+ years (ending 2008), and we did indeed read (and talk about) Slashdot. However, the rules not to reply to posts about MS were very strict, and I don't know of anyone who broke them. I actually had permission to post as "MSN Dude" for Microsoft on web search-related sites for a while, but I had to do it openly. So if someone from Microsoft were posting here, I expect that he/she would say so.

Of course, things might have changed . . .

--Greg

Re:Fantastic first impressions

[flappinbooger]

It's not that I don't believe there are paid shills on the Internet, but you're linking to a blog of a guy who believes Paul McCartney is dead and has been replaced by a CIA agent. It's hardly a credible source.

Honestly I didn't really look at what the rest of the site had.

There is something odd about that "confession" as it can be found verbatim on a number of other websites. So, on one hand it negates your concern about the Paul McCartney "issue" but on the other hand it seems to be spammed to several sites.

Not that the latter necessarily takes away validity...

Re:Fantastic first impressions

[gmolson81]

Mod parent up. This was fixed at the filesystem indexing level with Windows Search. Windows Search is unfortunately not installed by default in Windows 7. But after you install it, you will have fast searches not just in Outlook, but across any other folder on your filesystem that you choose to index.

Re:Fantastic first impressions

[mjwx]

Thanks for the sarcasm, snark, and general condescension which eclipse an otherwise valid point. You're a real asset to the Internet.

He was right and he did eclipse your point completely, the big difference is your point was so far from valid it could have been in a completely different universe.

Gmail's "tags" operate in the same fashion as Outlook's "folders" with one really, really big exception... I can have the same email in more than one tag. For example if I wanted to reference an email in regards to multiple technolgoies (I.E. "Nagios" and "Citrix") I can do this in Gmail but not in Outlook (it could only go in the "Nagios" _OR_ "Citrix" folder).

When I put a tag on an email, it puts it in a folder, when I remove a tag it removes it from that folder. The difference is just in the name.

Re:Fantastic first impressions

[Anonymous Coward]

Caught stuff like that on HBGary and the Chinese Water Army the other day here in this post http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3012595&cid=40811497 You may find this data useful also.

Re:Fantastic first impressions

[Anonymous Coward]

Thank you!
The arrogance of slashdotters never ceases to amaze me. The notion that a company would pay people to shill at slashdot of all places is so utterly laughable. lol

Re:Fantastic first impressions

[cyssero]

Totally agree. The OP is clearly a troll trying to incite Microsoft hatred by posing as a Microsoft shill. It's worked quite well.

Re:Fantastic first impressions

[UltraZelda64]

In the holy words of Butt-head:
Uh... huh huh huh, he said cheque. Huh huh.

Re:Fantastic first impressions

[Anonymous Coward]

Here's literal proof the Linux/Open Sores idiots shill themselves. Funniest part is, it's from an Open SORES famous person quoted too:

"It just takes one Ubuntu sympathizer or PR flack to minus-moderate any comment. Unfortunately, once PR agencies and so on started paying people to moderate online communities, and to have hundreds of accounts each, things changed." - by Bruce Perens (3872) on Friday July 30, @03:55PM (#33089192) Homepage Journal

SOURCE -> http://linux.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1738364&cid=33089192

These open sores pussies *think* they're fooling people, guess what? See above. One of their own at least knows it happens and from open sores shills. Argue with that fact.

Want more proof of that going on around here on this website in multiple registered luser account using trolls?

Look no farther than this (both are Barbara Hudson, probably not even her real name):

http://slashdot.org/~tomhudson [slashdot.org] last post on May 2 2012 and http://slashdot.org/~Barbara,+not+Barbie last post on May 21 2012 and both are barbara hudson on the pages shown.

That was one of the biggest Linux shills around here that got run off by apk after being caught and proven as a multiple account using registered troll on slashdot.

Re:Fantastic first impressions

[Anonymous Coward]

Here's proof Linux/Open Sores idiots shill themselves. Funny part is the first quote I cite is from an Open SORES famous person quoted too:

"It just takes one Ubuntu sympathizer or PR flack to minus-moderate any comment. Unfortunately, once PR agencies and so on started paying people to moderate online communities, and to have hundreds of accounts each, things changed." - by Bruce Perens (3872) on Friday July 30, @03:55PM (#33089192) Homepage Journal

SOURCE -> http://linux.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1738364&cid=33089192

These open sores pussies *think* they're fooling people, guess what? See above. One of their own at least knows it happens and from open sores shills. Argue with that fact.

Want more proof of that going on around here on this website in multiple registered luser account using trolls?

Look no farther than this (both are Barbara Hudson, probably not even her real name):

http://slashdot.org/~tomhudson last post on May 2 2012 and http://slashdot.org/~Barbara,+not+Barbie last post on May 21 2012 and both are barbara hudson on the pages shown. That was one of the biggest Linux shills around here that got run off by apk after being caught and proven as a multiple account using registered troll on slashdot.

Re:Fantastic first impressions

[Anonymous Coward]

Proof exists Linux/Open Sores idiots shill themselves. Funny part is the first quote I cite is from an Open SORES famous person quoted too:

"It just takes one Ubuntu sympathizer or PR flack to minus-moderate any comment. Unfortunately, once PR agencies and so on started paying people to moderate online communities, and to have hundreds of accounts each, things changed." - by Bruce Perens (3872) on Friday July 30, @03:55PM (#33089192) Homepage Journal

SOURCE -> http://linux.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1738364&cid=33089192

These open sores pussies *think* they're fooling people, guess what? See above. One of their own at least knows it happens and from open sores shills. Argue with that fact.

Want more proof of that going on around here on this website in multiple registered luser account using trolls?

Look no farther than this (both are Barbara Hudson, probably not even her real name):

http://slashdot.org/~tomhudson last post on May 2 2012 and http://slashdot.org/~Barbara,+not+Barbie last post on May 21 2012 and both are barbara hudson on the pages shown. That was one of the biggest Linux shills around here that got run off by apk after being caught and proven as a multiple account using registered troll on slashdot.

Re:Fantastic first impressions

[Anonymous Coward]

Here's proof Linux/Open Sores idiots shill themselves. Funny part is the first quote I cite is from an Open SORES famous person quoted too:

"It just takes one Ubuntu sympathizer or PR flack to minus-moderate any comment. Unfortunately, once PR agencies and so on started paying people to moderate online communities, and to have hundreds of accounts each, things changed." - by Bruce Perens (3872) on Friday July 30, @03:55PM (#33089192) Homepage Journal

SOURCE -> http://linux.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1738364&cid=33089192

These open sores pussies *think* they're fooling people, guess what? See above. One of their own at least knows it happens and from open sores shills. Argue with that fact.

Want more proof of that going on around here on this website in multiple registered luser account using trolls?

Look no farther than this (both are Barbara Hudson, probably not even her real name):

http://slashdot.org/~tomhudson last post on May 2 2012 and http://slashdot.org/~Barbara,+not+Barbie last post on May 21 2012 and both are barbara hudson on the pages shown. That was one of the biggest Linux shills around here that got run off by apk after being caught and proven as a multiple account using registered troll on slashdot.

Re:Fantastic first impressions

[MightyMartian]

Okay hotshot. List my aliases. Get to it fucktard.

Re:Fantastic first impressions

[Anonymous Coward]

You've posted that at least three times, apk. Grab a beer and chill the fuck out.

Re:Fantastic first impressions

[LordLimecat]

Your post started at moderation level 1, which combined with your high UID indicates that youve been on the site for all of about 15 minutes. If you had been on longer and actually garnered some karma-- like basically anyone who has been here in excess of 15 minutes-- you would start at +2.

Your post also appeared within about 25 seconds of the submission, and was a classic mix of praise for MS and jabs at Gmail, when pretty much everyone recognizes that gmail is and always has been far superior to hotmail in any of its incarnations.

Seriously, how dumb do you think we are?

Re:Fantastic first impressions

[LordLimecat]

For the record, for all to see-- lest anyone think that shills arent real.

H105's profile:
2 posts, and the following achievements:

(0) Days Read in a Row 2012-08-01
Posted a Comment 2012-07-31
Had a Comment Modded Up 2012-07-31

Yea dude, you joined today and posted 30 seconds after this article was posted, but its totally not a paid opinion!

Re:Fantastic first impressions

[Anonymous Coward]

Hilarious how you easily seen thru little dorks *think* you're smart (but not many of you actually have any recognition in computing either, lol, talk about ARROGANT and no reason to be). 99.999% of you around here are nothing more than unaccomplished failures in computing and yes that includes you GameBoyRMH!

Here's proof Linux/Open Sores idiots shill themselves. Funny part is the first quote I cite is from an Open SORES famous person quoted too:

"It just takes one Ubuntu sympathizer or PR flack to minus-moderate any comment. Unfortunately, once PR agencies and so on started paying people to moderate online communities, and to have hundreds of accounts each, things changed." - by Bruce Perens (3872) on Friday July 30, @03:55PM (#33089192) Homepage Journal

SOURCE -> http://linux.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1738364&cid=33089192

These open sores pussies *think* they're fooling people, guess what? See above. One of their own at least knows it happens and from open sores shills. Argue with that fact.

Want more proof of that going on around here on this website in multiple registered luser account using trolls?

Look no farther than this (both are Barbara Hudson, probably not even her real name):

http://slashdot.org/~tomhudson last post on May 2 2012 and http://slashdot.org/~Barbara,+not+Barbie last post on May 21 2012 and both are barbara hudson on the pages shown.

Re:Fantastic first impressions

[Slashdot Parent]

We have Outlook/Exchange at my client, too. It crashes a lot. Not sure why. But that's basically irrelevant. I don't think there's much, if any, connection between Outlook desktop software and outlook.com. A buddy of mine works on webmail at MS, so I suppose I could ask him if I really gave a fuck, which I do not.

Regarding outlook.com, I did have a quick look at it. Seems decent enough. Interface is less busy than hotmail. I didn't get to test it much because I'm on my work computer, and I only use hotmail for fetlife-related emails. Not, in the strictest sense, workplace-appropriate.

Re:Fantastic first impressions

[MightyMartian]

Look at my uid you dickless moron. Now go play in traffic shill boy

Re:Fantastic first impressions

[Slashdot Parent]

But God, I'll be glad when I'm out of this place! I'd retire today if I could live on just the pension, but I only have 2 years before I'm eligible for SS.

Pension? What's a pension?

Re:Fantastic first impressions

[Anonymous Coward]

Can you buy a real dick is the question pusscake. Rotflmao.

Re:Fantastic first impressions

[omfgnosis]

I doubt it will be faster than gmail, what with the extra javascript required for metro.

Uh, what? "Metro" is a design language; in the various OS incarnations, it certainly has a fair amount that one might use JavaScript to approximate on a website, but that's not particularly key to the "Metro" language. It essentially embraces very minimalist design; bright, solid colors; typography over iconography. None of that requires any JavaScript at all. In fact, it requires a fairly minimal amount of CSS, at least by its nature.

Gmail is itself fairly JavaScript heavy: it is a single-page web app which offloads a lot of interaction to asynchronous requests and a fairly comprehensive client-side UI implementation. From playing around a little with Outlook.com, I can tell that it has a lot of similar features (in terms of UI/UX implementation), but I sincerely doubt it's heavier in JS than Gmail is, at least not substantially.

And who has trouble remembering their email address domain? Seriously?

I would wager many people, possibly most. Too many people refer to "their" Internet as "the Google" and other silliness for me to believe otherwise. The whole concept of "address" or "domain" is conceptually challenging for many, many people. That said, I don't think "Outlook.com" is a particularly memorable email domain for these people, it's far more likely Gmail succeeds there.

And why would I want integration for my email.

For most purposes, I certainly wouldn't. But since Gmail has been so successful, its integration with Gchat (Jabber) has been a boon for getting some of my technophobe friends to use chat. It really depends what your workflow is, but I'd imagine for the people who like the Facewitters and Twatbooks, the integration will be a boon for them as well.

Re:Fantastic first impressions

[phantomfive]

Well said.

Re:Fantastic first impressions

[isorox]

Could it be unpaid fanbois? Is Microsoft the new Apple?

I think this is more likely. There are a lot of people that have built their livelihoods around microsoft, and are understandably agitated about the downwards direction Balmer's taken them over the last 10 years.

Re:Fantastic first impressions

[omfgnosis]

That was a fun read, but even if I could pretend it wasn't decorated with red flags (weird conspiracy theory intro, Illuminati references, weird references to unfamiliar alphabet soup, insinuation of a Zionist conspiracy), the story isn't very plausible, and actually lacks some of the hallmarks you'd expect if it were really true. There's a great deal of detail at the front, but as the conclusion comes rushing along it lacks any sort of detail about the fallout, the cultish stop-loss. Would such a shady organization just let this person go, to tell the world? And ultimately the story is fanciful, what you might expect from a dramatization; the world is far more banal than that.

Re:Fantastic first impressions

[Anonymous Coward]

You have to log into the webmail component to change your email password

If your email password is different from your standard 'work'/domain password, your IT is doing something very, very, wrong. You shouldn't need to change your exchange password through exchange at all.

Re:Fantastic first impressions

[Missing.Matter]

He was right and he did eclipse your point completely

No, his snark completely eclipses his valid point. As in, I've already conceded the point so why are you still going on about it? You've said exactly the same thing.

Re:Fantastic first impressions

[kenboldt]

Thankfully Gmail has a fantastically powerful search engine. if you don't have too many labels, you can do a search of

-label:{label1 label2 label3...}
note the dash "-" at the front of that.

and just replace "label1" etc with all your labels. But if you have a lot of labels, I can see that being cumbersome. Alternatively, if you want to search for emails from a specific person, or regarding a specific topic, just do a regular search, or use targetted keywords. Setting up filters to automatically apply labels to emails with certain triggers, such as being from a specific person, or containing a specific keyword means that few to none will fall through the cracks in the future.

Another suggestion would be to always use the "move to" button instead of the "label" button so that once a label is applied, emails are moved out of the inbox, and they are only moved out of the inbox once an email has been labelled.

I understand your point, but I think there are enough tools provided that it shouldn't be a deal breaker.

Re:Fantastic first impressions

[kenboldt]

You can see my reply to Dynedain above for reference, but simply put, there are two buttons for labels, one is a "move to" button, and the other is a "label" button. The "move to" button will apply the label you choose and then archive the email. The label button simply applies the label and leaves the email right where it is.

So if you want the emails moved (archived) when you apply the label, just use the "move to" button. If there are emails that you happen to have labelled but they are still in your inbox, simply archive them. That will leave all the emails that you have yet to apply labels to in your inbox.

And if you are looking for archived emails without labels, as I said to Dynedain, the tools are there to find them, but if you are diligent in how you use the "move to" and "label" buttons, it shouldn't be an issue.

Re:Fantastic first impressions

[kenboldt]

For the record, I apologize for the sarcasm, snark, and general condescension. However, that said, I still don't see how your post which I originally replied to makes sense. You said that your girlfriend switched to the old Gmail from the new one because she liked folders instead of labels. This doesn't make sense as Gmail has used labels instead of folders since its inception. It was only after some people complained that they wanted folders instead that Google added the "move to" button in addition to the "label" button, so I'm not sure what it is that your girlfriend liked before and now has lost since only new features have been added, with no functionality removed.

So I stand behind my point (to which I acknowledge you have conceded) and I apologize for my tone.

Re:Fantastic first impressions

[mcgrew]

While you can use it to change your password, you should be doing it through the OS through either Ctrl-Alt-Delete or old school (like me) through the command line.

The way they have it (obviously mis-)configured you not only can't change the email password anywhere but webmail, it doesn't even have the same parameters as the network password.

Who trained the administrators? My guess is they're MSCEs.

Re:Fantastic first impressions

[Missing.Matter]

I said this in reply to another but I don't use Gmail and was only going off what my girlfriend told me. My only thought is that the new UI either obliterated her labels or just moved them to a place she couldn't find, probably under the "More" accordion.

Re:Fantastic first impressions

[mcgrew]

email is not designed to be delivered within any specific timeframe (something all the "click the link in the email we just sent you to activate your account" services would do very good to remember) - if you want instant communication than use a proper IM.

Maybe email was never designed to be instant, but I've never seen any email message take more than two or three minutes to get to the recipient.

Re:Fantastic first impressions

[Dynedain]

There was an article a while back on /. about how much time people spend sorting their email into folders. The basic gist of it was that there are two different types of people when it comes to email inboxes. One type, the type that spends time manually moving everything into folders, is doing it because they use their inbox as a sort of to-do list. The act of moving a message into a folder is their way of marking the message done.

For these types of people, the label approach is useless.

Re:Fantastic first impressions

[mcgrew]

Alas, most of you don't have the benefit of a union and now no longer have pensions, paid vacations, and have to work more than 40 hours a week without overtime pay. It's sad.

Re:Fantastic first impressions

[Slashdot Parent]

Alas, most of you don't have the benefit of a union and now no longer have pensions, paid vacations, and have to work more than 40 hours a week without overtime pay. It's sad.

I don't have paid vacations, but I also don't have to work unpaid overtime. Seems fair to me.

Re:Fantastic first impressions

[kenboldt]

that doesn't make sense though, since applying a label and then archiving the email, or doing it in one step by using the "move to" button, is the EXACT same as moving the email into a folder, except it isn't physically located in some folder. A folder is essentially a completely inflexible label. You are saying that an email belongs to this label and this label only when you put it in a folder. Using labels instead of folders allows you to have ALL the functionality of folders, but with the ADDED functionality that an email can exist in multiple folders/labels at the same time.

If you want to use your inbox as a to-do list, well, leave emails in your inbox until the item is complete, and then when it is complete, archive it. Labels actually HELP in this regard, because you can label something so that its context is easily identifiable, but it can still exist in your inbox until it is complete, at which point you archive it. With folders, you can't sort in this same way while things are in your inbox. You have to move it out of your inbox in order to sort it into a folder so that it has context, such as moving it into a project folder. I can label my emails as being associated with a particular project, and keeping it focused in the inbox as an item that needs to be taken care of using the label method. This is not possible with folders.

Your list of labels is on the left, just like a list of folders would be in any other mail program. When you click on a label title it gives you all the emails with that label, which is the exact same as clicking on a folder name and seeing all the email that is located in that folder.

You haven't demonstrated any functionality that folders have and labels lack.

Re:Fantastic first impressions

[Dynedain]

pplying a label and then archiving the email

You added a key new step there. Archiving is the same thing as moving something into a folder.

Labels by themselves are not (see my previous Google Docs example). Relying on labels exclusively requires new UI features to support certain types of workflows.

Give me Labels in addition to my folders and I'm happy to use them. Give me labels exclusively instead of folders and I'm not going to be happy. I limit my use of Google Docs precisely because this label issue prevents me from seeing what I feel is important when I first login to my documents.

Re:Fantastic first impressions

[Anonymous Coward]

I gave it a shot. It wasn't bad. I mean it's webmail. How good can it really be? One thing that impressed me was the ability to edit Office documents in the browser. I tried Word, PowerPoint, and Excel. You can't do everything, can't create a new one either, but it isn't bad for basic editing of existing documents, at least in my limited testing.

I wasn't too happy when I tried to send an email though. I got stuck in a captcha routine. The characters were hard to read and I failed 3 times straight. I saw a little link to verify my account to avoid the captcha, so I tried it. They wanted my cell phone number. WTF? I won't give my cell number to ANY website, much less MS. There was no option to use the alternate email address I had already provided, so I'm stuck with captchas each time I try to send mail. That's a huge fail. I'd rather use Yahoo than put up with that crap.

Re:Fantastic first impressions

[Pigskin-Referee]

I like the alias feature myself. I don't have the time to completely check out the site now, but I will get around to it within the next few days.

Re:Fantastic first impressions

[hkmwbz]

Do you really think Microsoft wastes time on Slashdot, trying to persuade an audience who are not worth the time, even if it were possible?

Yes, why not? Microsoft has done a lot of dumb shit in the past. What makes you think they have stopped doing dumb shit?

Re:Fantastic first impressions

[hkmwbz]

Or you are another Microsoft employee trying to convince people that Microsoft didn't get caught red-handed doing immoral stuff.. again.

Re:Fantastic first impressions

[RockDoctor]

Shit.

Not one of the above given.

Will my 1996 Hotmail address continue to collect spam?

Will the 'integration' work with my domestic Linux machines?

Re:Fantastic first impressions

[kenboldt]

Nope, no step added. See where I continued my sentence by saying "or doing it in one step by using the "move to" button"

yeah, same thing as folders.

You still haven't shown anything that folders can do that labels can't.

Where's the logout link?

[ZipK]

Hopefully they didn't put the logout link 5 pixels below the account selector, as did the idiots who revamped Hotmail's UI.

Re:Where's the logout link?

[iONiUM]

You click your name, and it's in that drop-down (like Google+)

Re:Where's the logout link?

[Anonymous Coward]

Google's lost the plot when it comes to UI, common stuff like "logout" is hidden in menus.

I find it terrifically amusing that there are so many third party scripts out there to "fix" GMail's overcooked redesign, and Google's response is to just stonewall end users with blanket "like it or lump it" PR statements in their "support" forums.

Re:Where's the logout link?

[Spy Handler]

They have idiots at Google too, that took a good, functional UI and revamped it with a nonsensical one.

For instance: in the old Gmail, you had clearly labeled HTML buttons that said "Delete" "Compose" "Archive", etc. It was easy to find.

In the new UI, somebody decided that little tiny dark icons with no text description were cool. Now the Delete button is replaced by a tiny black icon that represents a trash can. Archive button is replaced by another tiny black icon which looks similar to the other little black icons. So basically, what used to be a two-step operation (move your mouse cursor to Delete button, click) is now a four or five-step operation. (move cursor over little black icon and hover, wait for the onHover title to see if it's the one you want, go on to the next little icon and hover, read title, then click if it's the right one).

Re:Where's the logout link?

[ZipK]

In the new UI, somebody decided that little tiny dark icons with no text description were cool.

Gear -> Settings -> Button Labels -> Text

Re:Where's the logout link?

[flirno]

I like how the label list is dynamic as all heck making it a pain to accurately click on a specific label.

Re:Where's the logout link?

[Anonymous Coward]

To be fair, that's not something that SHOULD be that hard to find. The icon buttons take up the same amount of room as the text buttons, so there is absolutely no point to having them be icons. I also hate the disappearing buttons. I'd rather have grayed out options than dynamically visible options.

The old gmail interface was superior to the new one. Even in "compact" mode, it feels like I'm using a Fisher Price with all the edges smoothed and giant plastic handles on everything. I detest that they forced people to switch. It's on par with that day they forced bg images onto google search. I seem to remember the most popular image was a plain white png.

The new interface ALSO made contacts harder to find by removing the link. What was the purpose of this? I have no fucking clue, but it's damned annoying.

Re:Where's the logout link?

[Anonymous Coward]

Thank you!

Re:Where's the logout link?

[Anonymous Coward]

_Thank you_.

The great thing about Google was they used to get UI so right that you didn't want to modify it.

Re:Where's the logout link?

[Anonymous Coward]

In the new UI, somebody decided that little tiny dark icons with no text description were cool.

Gear -> Settings -> Button Labels -> Text

Thats the thing, what if I dont know what the damn gear is for?

Re:Where's the logout link?

[Anonymous Coward]

Gear

*sigh*

(And it doesn't change when you do that either.)

Re:Where's the logout link?

[Anonymous Coward]

HOLY FUCK I LOVE YOU

Re:Where's the logout link?

[tooyoung]

Gear -> Settings -> Button Labels -> Text

So, if you think the GUI is hard to figure out, just go to a setting buried three levels deep behind a menu represented by an icon lacking text to fix it!

Re:Where's the logout link?

[dinfinity]

Thank you!
How I loathe undescriptive icons in shades of black and grey.

Re:Where's the logout link?

[Anonymous Coward]

Gear -> Settings -> Button Labels -> Text

So, if you think the GUI is hard to figure out, just go to a setting buried three levels deep behind a menu represented by an icon lacking text to fix it!

Yeah, I know, sorry, we used to think of this as a site where people compiled their own OS from source, nowadays people here have more trouble figuring out Facebook settings than Joe Sixpack.

Re:Where's the logout link?

[hairyfeet]

But why should we HAVE to fiddle with settings just to get a functional UI? The whole point of defaults if that they should be sensible as that is what a good 90% of the public will stick with, so why make them such a mess?

Frankly ever since that damned iPhone came out UIs have been sent back a good decade or more because now everything is style over substance. You can't just have sensible icons and easy to read text, nope that wouldn't be 'cool" or "modern' its ALL gotta be " funky hard to tell WTF its supposed to be icons" or you just ain't hip daddy-o!

Personally i'll be happy as hell when the whole "everything needs to be like a smartphone!" UI fad DIAF because its gotten more than a little irritating.

Re:Where's the logout link?

[u38cg]

Marvellous! Thank you.

Re:Where's the logout link?

[Anonymous Coward]

Gear -> Settings -> Button Labels -> Text

Oh god, thank you so much - I want to have your babies.

Plus I feel like an idot for not finding that myself.

Re:Where's the logout link?

[hairyfeet]

You see that's the thing Mrs AC, we shouldn't HAVE to go digging just for a decent DEFAULT, we should ONLY have to go digging if we want something a little off the beaten track.

Ya know I'm really fucking sick of those that think "obtuse and fiddly" should be badges of honor, that anything more than a blinking cursor on a black screen is somehow "dumbing down". Computers shouldn't be the new fricking priesthood, okay? They should have sensible defaults but then GTFO of the way of the ones that want MORE than what the sensible default gives.

Its sad that we USED to know this, KDE 3, Gnome 2, Win2K, they gave good basic controls but got out of your way and let you get into the guts if you needed or wanted more. Now its either iPhone or blinking cursor, no damned middle ground and frankly it sucks serious ass.

Re:Where's the logout link?

[lipanitech]

If it actually looked like OWA I would have been thrilled just another disappointment by Microsoft.

Re:Where's the logout link?

[Anonymous Coward]

The ability to have text buttons has been restored in Gmail options.

Re:Where's the logout link?

[c]

> you had clearly labeled HTML buttons that said "Delete" "Compose" "Archive"

Worse, "Archive", "Spam" and "Delete" are all right next to each other. Google's spam filtering is good enough that *maybe* once a week I need to mark something as spam, but they interleaved the button with the two most commonly used functions.

At least they have an "undo" capability...

Re:Where's the logout link?

[Anonymous Coward]

I am almost 72, and it took me 0.005 seconds to make the adjustment from words to icons. And further more, the icons are multi-lingual.

I like icons that are representative of what you expect. Why my gosh, I even like the Windows icons for printer, save, (no longer have floppy disk), word processor and more.

Re:Where's the logout link?

[Anonymous Coward]

I had the exact problem that you are talking about. EXCEPT, I somehow managed to learn what buttons were what and remember them.

Are you telling me that you read through the UI trying to find the "delete" text every time you want to delete something? I would assume that, at some point, you managed to simply remember where it was.

Re:Where's the logout link?

[Anonymous Coward]

You see that's the thing Mrs AC, we shouldn't HAVE to go digging just for a decent DEFAULT, we should ONLY have to go digging if we want something a little off the beaten track.

Have you considered that the defaults you want actually are off the beaten track? I know it is popular to Slashdot to assume otherwise, but companies like Microsoft does a huge amount of user research, user testing and user telemetry analysis when making their choices.

Re:Where's the logout link?

[Anonymous Coward]

Just because you do not understand something, does not mean it is "obtuse and fiddly".

I'm not suggesting that any one UI is perfect ... they're not, and that also includes all the old UI that a lot of people can't seem to be able to move on from!

Ads?

[Animats]

The new mail client has the Metro look and feel. And it is providing users with more granular control over which ads they see and where they see them.'"

Ads? What do ads have to do with email?

Re:Ads?

[Anonymous Coward]

Google has ads, so you better have ads too.

Re:Ads?

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, webmail is what almost everyone uses now, and if there are any webmail services that don't show ads, I'm not aware of them. Of course you can use adblock, but most people don't. The contents of emails are scanned for keywords to chose which ads to show.

The internet is increasingly funded by ads, so they are kind of tied in with email in that way.

Not saying it's good, just saying that's how it is.

Re:Ads?

[trancemission]

Ads? What do ads have to do with 'free' email?

FTFY, hope that helps....

Re:Ads?

[Joce640k]

I wonder if one of those fine, granular controls is "none at all"?

Re:Ads?

[betterunixthanunix]

Hm...I am looking at my email right now, from Google, and I don't see ads...

Oh, wait, I forgot that we were talking about webmail, where the ads are part of the mail client. Carry on then.

Re:Ads?

[konaya]

Where are these "ads" of which you are speaking? I've never ever seen an ad in my GMail interface. Not that I'm complaining, but what gives? Now I'm curious.

Re:Ads?

[Anonymous Coward]

And why would I want to spend time and effort on "controlling which ads I see"? Do they honestly think I give a damn?

Re:Ads?

[ceoyoyo]

Second and third best reasons not to use webmail.

Re:Ads?

[Anonymous Coward]

You probably don't notice them because they're unobtrusive textual ads in the header of mail list. In "Trash" folder you get recycling related ads, in "Spam" you get ads for cooking with spam, and in main view you get ads related to content of your messages (which often shoots off "Google reads my mail!" discussions).

Re:Ads?

[asylumx]

They show at the top of the email list. Google uses the context of your messages to decide what ads to show you. For example, I get emails confirming when my flight lessons are scheduled and GMail's ad for me right now is "Free Flight Training Mag - www.AOPA.org/FlightTraining - 6 Free Issues of Flight Training Magazine. Sign up today!"

Re:Ads?

[Anonymous Coward]

They're there to keep it free you fucking idiot.

Re:Ads?

[sconeu]

I was going to ask the same question.

Of course, the answer is "BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! Oh, you kids an your wacky ideas.... No Ads???? You're so funny!"

Re:Ads?

[Darinbob]

I'd skip web mail, but I like to be able to see some personal emails at work. Adblock makes it usable (and yes, ads exist even in web mail interface from a subscribed ISP).

Re:Ads?

[konaya]

On the top of the e-mail list I have the refresh button, the More menu, the cogwheel menu, and two arrow buttons. No ads in sight. Oh well, I guess I shouldn't complain too loudly, eh?

Re:Ads?

[IflyRC]

You're lucky. I have ads show up all of the time in my Gmail at the top of the message list.

Re:Ads?

[GameboyRMH]

Open an email, look to the right of the email content. Try a few different emails.

Re:Ads?

[flirno]

I'd rather pay than see ads.

Re:Ads?

[Anonymous Coward]

parent is just an adblock user being intentionally vague (and smug).

it's cool though, i use adblock too. don't get why anyone who complains about ads doesn't.

Re:Ads?

[GeneralSecretary]

Has to do with the "Free" part

Re:Ads?

[Anonymous Coward]

You can turn it off completely. Somewhere under settings, or you can add your own rss to display there.

Re:Ads?

[Anonymous Coward]

(and yes, ads exist even in web mail interface from a subscribed ISP).

Seriously, that's more than enough reason to switch ISP.

Re:Ads?

[MobileTatsu-NJG]

I wonder if one of those fine, granular controls is "none at all"?

When I was in high school I took Economics for a semester. They taught us about 'no free lunch'. I was foolishly under the impression that most American schools covered this.

Re:Ads?

[ceoyoyo]

My solutions to your problem, in order of my preference (you might have different priorities):

1) get a job where they treat you like an adult
2) smart phone
3) ssh and pine
4) switch ISPs to one that isn't out to maximally monetize you.

Re:Ads?

[Darinbob]

By reading personal email at work I mean I can access my mail via the web instead of having my personal desktop computer with me. This has nothing to do with policies of my employer.

Smartphone doens't help since now I have mail differences between the smartphone and my computer.

Ssh doesn't work if my home computer is shut off, does not have a fixed IP address, etc. POP is the only thing my ISP allows, and I've never had one of my ISPs offer IMAP for over 15 years.

Can't just switch ISPs, I'd lose my broadband.

Re:Ads?

[zlives]

i actually didn't see any ads... which is what i want... but is that by design?

Re:Ads?

[xtracto]

mhmm, maybe we should remind Microsoft of this video.

Re:Ads?

[Anonymous Coward]

parent is just an adblock user being intentionally vague (and smug).

it's cool though, i use adblock too. don't get why anyone who complains about ads doesn't.

Problem I have with adblock is that we are ultimately freeloaders. Like the people who cheat away from taxes and let other people pay for the upkeep of the services they use. Without ads, there wouldn't be any Google services at all.

Re:Ads?

[ceoyoyo]

By reading personal email at work I mean I can access my mail via the web instead of having my personal desktop computer with me.

I have an e-mail client that checks my personal e-mail on my work desktop.

Smartphone doens't help since now I have mail differences between the smartphone and my computer.

I check my mail on my notebook, work desktop, iPad and iPhone. They all stay nicely in sync.

Ssh doesn't work if my home computer is shut off, does not have a fixed IP address, etc.

Leave it turned on and use dynamic DNS. Better yet, ssh into your mail provider's server.

POP is the only thing my ISP allows

Oh. THAT's your real problem - it all goes back to your ISP using broken e-mail. I admit, I haven't used ISP email in more than a decade. You can get an IMAP account for cheap from lots of places. For less than $10/month I've got a couple gigs of web space, IMAP e-mail, ssh access to the server and a domain name (and thus an e-mail address that won't change as long as I can afford it). Apple will give you one for free, although it's possible they're reading your e-mail. Google will give you one for free, but they're definitely reading your e-mail. Another option, and the ultimate for the paranoid, is to get dynamic DNS on your home computer and roll your own.

Although, by leaving messages on the server you can do reasonably well even with POP on a decent smartphone.

Re:Ads?

[hairyfeet]

Thanks, because this lets me go off on another rant that has been bugging me for awhile which is WE ARE NOT FREELOADERS!!! Why? because they fricking started it, that's why!

For years i didn't give enough of a shit about ads one way or another to care, hell i even sometimes bought something thanks to an ad, like Tiger having a deal on a new GPU or Amazon having some game or movie I wanted...but that ALL changed when ads became "Punch the clown and win an iPhone LOL!" flashy loud obnoxious horseshit!

I will happily whitelist ANY site that wants to show me ads, as long as they meet the following conditions...1.-NO DAMNED FLASH ADS! 2.-No blinking epileptic crap getting in my face! 3.-No music or audio blasting my fucking ears off! 4.-Finally no splitting what could have been a simple single page article into 40 damned sections just to slam me with yet MOAR ads!

Do this and I will be happy to see your ads, hell i'll even fill out the occasional survey just so you can make the ads be more towards stuff I might actually buy, but until the STFU and quit whining about how we won't see your ads because YOU started the bullshit! YOU allowed ads from any third party, thus making infected ads a malware vector, YOU let them spam your site with loud as hell flash ads that are as obnoxious as a fart in the face, YOU are the ones that ruining your content by allowing every ads to be a blinking flashing whorehouse!

So don't bitch about me not putting up with your horseshit when you make your site about as enjoyable as being repeatedly bitchslapped by a clown on speed because it was YOU website owners that let the ad companies make ads into one of the most irritating fucking things on the web!

Re:Ads?

[Dan541]

My webmail has no ads: http://s3.danscomp.net/office-12.jpg unless you count the spam in my junk folder.

I normally always use my outlook client instead of the web interface.
No matter how nice a webmail UI can be made, they still don't match their client counterparts.

Re:Ads?

[Anonymous Coward]

So... you don't block Google's ads then, since they meet your requirements, and therefore you're not a freeloader. Right?

Re:Ads?

[hairyfeet]

That's right, I check the "allow Google text ads" when i installed ABP into Comodo dragon. Again I have NO PROBLEM with ads, hell i don't even mind picture ads if they are just that, a simple jpg or png, but this flipping flashy loud bullshit has GOT to go!

Re:Ads?

[Anonymous Coward]

You can disable the ads completely. I don't remember how I did it but I am a 64 year old female so it can't be all that hard to figure out.

Re:Ads?

[Anonymous Coward]

That's right, I check the "allow Google text ads" when i installed ABP into Comodo dragon. Again I have NO PROBLEM with ads, hell i don't even mind picture ads if they are just that, a simple jpg or png, but this flipping flashy loud bullshit has GOT to go!

That is good, but the thread OP replied to here included several saying they didn't see ads on Gmail because of adblock. From your argument you actually agree with OP that these are freeloaders then?

Re:Ads?

[Crosshair84]

For me it was several years ago with some Dell flash ad on fark.com and elsewhere that would physically crash my computer because it took so much ram and CPU that my computer would simply lock up.

Outlook.com is MS's latest Ad platform!

[dehole]

I notice that MS is using the success they've had with advertising on XBOX to transform their other projects into similiar Ad platforms. That is why the Metro interface looks like the XBox dashboard, so that it will be easier to slip advertisements in it. Outlook.com will be no different.

Re:Outlook.com is MS's latest Ad platform!

[Nerdfest]

At least it looks like they did a bit better with the webmail interface than the XBox one. It's awful to use with both controller and Kinect.

Re:Outlook.com is MS's latest Ad platform!

[hairyfeet]

If its as much of a 'success' as their GFWL constantly trying to sell me fucking Xbox games in GAMES FOR WINDOWS LIVE which apparently so fucking retarded it can't grasp the concept that when surfing a service that sells games for Windows i might actually want...gasp!...games for Windows?

Yeah....just gonna have to give that one a big old pass there. Of course that's MSFT in a nutshell, they have a success anywhere and they think that is ALL anybody wants. What? You actually want a game for WINDOWS? No you don't! You secretly want an Xbox and just don't know it yet! What do you mean you don't want Windows on your phone? Of course you do, its Windows!...sigh...I have to wonder if the guy that wrote Dilbert ever worked for MSFT as the PHB would probably be right under Sinofsky and Ballmer and fit right in with the "Microsoft Web 3.0 synergy Paradigm".

no thanks

[Anonymous Coward]

And it is providing users with more granular control over which ads they see and where they see them.'"

My local mail app doesn't show me ANY ads, it doesn't expose the contents of my email to data miners, it lets me instantly search email and compose new mail even if the network goes down, it doesn't lock me into proprietary solutions, and as a mail packrat it's let me take my mail collection with me as I move from system to system since 1984.

Re:no thanks

[betterunixthanunix]

My local mail app ... doesn't expose the contents of my email to data miners

You only send and receive encrypted email? I am impressed!

Re:no thanks

[pays-vert]

If mobile devices had decent terminal emulators, I might still be using local mail on a machine somewhere. As it is, the ability to seamlessly access email across a huge range of devices is more than worth the small tradeoff of having a couple of unobtrusive ads on the page. I can also compose new mail even if the network goes down. I use a text editor for this task.

Re:no thanks

[h4rr4r]

Which ones do not have decent terminal emulators?
Android has several pretty good ones.

Re:no thanks

[Ford Prefect]

If mobile devices had decent terminal emulators, I might still be using local mail on a machine somewhere.

Have you heard of IMAP? Use the local email clients on your laptop, mobile phone, desktop and whatever to access a single email account. I've got Dovecot running on a virtual server, and access it from numerous devices. I've also got Roundcube installed on the server, for a webmail interface.

(I've been running my own email system for some years now - and it's been surprisingly straightforward to admin. I wouldn't recommend it to everyone, but I like having an alternative to all the big, ad-funded webmail services...)

Re:no thanks

[slashrio]

It's no use encrypting your mail. With every mail on two computers, of which at least one is MS Windows and is as leak as can be, data miners don't have a hard time collecting your emails -- after being decrypted and stored by the receiver.

Re:no thanks

[betterunixthanunix]

Except that the message is decrypted locally and is not accessible to data mining operations (unless you take the time to send it to them).

Re:no thanks

[slashrio]

Storing decrypted messages locally on an internet connected MS Windows PC is defying the usefulness of encryption.

No clippy

[Celexi]

No clippy, no thanks.

Re:No clippy

[Anonymous Coward]

What about BOB ?

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Tried it

[iONiUM]

I actually like it. I know people, especially those on /., hate Metro, but the UI/UX is really clean and discover-able. Of course, that said, I won't be switching from gmail for this, but at least the few times I have to check my old hotmail account will no longer require the hideous hotmail UI.

Another Outlook?

[The Moof]

Great. I didn't have enough problem trying to explain the difference between Outlook and Outlook Express to people. Now I need to also include Outlook.com in the "Yes, they're from Microsoft and named the same, but no they're not the same" conversation.

To the person who will inevitably point out that OE is discontinued, it's still on enough workstations out there that I still receive "Why won't my OFT work in 'Outlook'" support calls.

Re:Another Outlook?

[SJHillman]

Most people seem to understand the difference between Outlook Web Access and Outlook, so I don't think they'll have a problem with Outlook.com vs Outlook.... although Outlook.com and OWA may be confused now.

Re:Another Outlook?

[Missing.Matter]

Outlook Express has been dead for ages. Who exactly are you explaining it to? Time travelers?

Re:Another Outlook?

[KhabaLox]

The company I left in April, 2011 was still on Windows XP and Office 2003. As the person responsible for buying new technology products, I was expressly forbidden from upgrading people to Win7 or Office 2007/2010 (though at the end I was able to get 2007 for myself via a volume license purchase with multi-version media).

Re:Another Outlook?

[Anonymous Coward]

probably that 25% of the globe that still has a copy on their PC

Re:Another Outlook?

[Anonymous Coward]

From the post that you replied to (learn to read, derp):

>To the person who will inevitably point out that OE is discontinued, it's still on enough workstations out there that I still receive "Why won't my OFT work in 'Outlook'" support calls.

Re:Another Outlook?

[Anonymous Coward]

They've done it with Office too.

The difference between Microsoft Office and Microsoft Office 365 is another "same name different product" problem.
The people I've talked to mostly think Office 365 is "Word and Excel, just online."
It's not. Office 365 is Exchange, Lync, and SharePoint(with Office Web Apps that are 50% as functional as the desktop versions.)
There's an option to get the desktop Office suite by subscription, but that's still just the regular desktop programs with online license checking.

Microsoft LOVES the brand recognition, and they seem to be using the confusion to their advantage as a way to get people into their different offerings.

Better spam filtering?

[Rik Sweeney]

Hotmail's spam filtering is without a doubt the worst on the web. Obvious spam ends up in my Inbox, and legitimate mail ends up in the spam.

What's worse though is when it gets fooled into thinking that the email is part of a mailing list I've subscribed to and displays all the images automatically, making the spammer aware that my email address is valid.

Re:Better spam filtering?

[PCM2]

Hotmail's spam filtering is without a doubt the worst on the web. Obvious spam ends up in my Inbox, and legitimate mail ends up in the spam.

I'm not sure this is much better. I've had access to a preview version of Outlook.com for a couple of weeks now, and I've been forwarding it mail from an account that gets lots of press releases. A few of the really obvious spam emails end up in the junk folder automatically, but so do some of the "legitimate" press releases -- and that's assuming you wouldn't normally classify a press release as spam. 90 percent of the mail I sent it seemed to sail right through.

What's more, Outlook.com tries to detect context for each of the mails you receive, to give you different types of information linked to the message. One thing it tries to do is differentiate between mail from individuals that's intended specifically for you and mail from mailing lists. Needless to say, next to nothing I sent it wasn't from a mailing list, but it flagged a few messages as being from individuals anyway.

What it does when it thinks you're seeing a message from one of your friends is it tries to display other information about that person in the box where the ads would go, such as the latest post from their Twitter or Facebook feed. It was pretty amusing to see an email from someone that began, "Dear {{YourName Here}}" and off to the right, Outlook.com was asking me to Friend the sender on Facebook.

Needless to say, my "usage" of the product so far has been pretty atypical, and maybe by running an email account on it where I don't actually talk to any of my friends and 90 percent of the incoming mail is totally unsolicited breaks the expected usage pattern.

But still, their vision of how email works doesn't really jibe with mine. Say one of my business contacts sends me an email about a project we're working on. Is this the time to follow their Twitter feed? Probably not. All of that functionality just seems like feature creep, and I suspect it has something to do with marketing partnerships.

Re:Better spam filtering?

[Anonymous Coward]

What hotmail really needs more than anything else is OUTBOUND spam filtering!

There is no excuse for sending so much crap to the world. Just apply the inbound spamfilter to outbound mail as well.

Re:Better spam filtering?

[Billly Gates]

Hotmail's spam filtering is without a doubt the worst on the web. Obvious spam ends up in my Inbox, and legitimate mail ends up in the spam.

What's worse though is when it gets fooled into thinking that the email is part of a mailing list I've subscribed to and displays all the images automatically, making the spammer aware that my email address is valid.

No doubt you still do not have a Yahoo Email account then? I pitty the users. You will get spam by the hour and hotmail is sooo tame in comparison.

Re:Better spam filtering?

[KhabaLox]

But still, their vision of how email works doesn't really jibe with mine. Say one of my business contacts sends me an email about a project we're working on. Is this the time to follow their Twitter feed? Probably not. All of that functionality just seems like feature creep, and I suspect it has something to do with marketing partnerships.

Didn't they say in the blog post that Outlook was still aimed at the business user, while Outlook.com is for the individual/consumer?

Re:Better spam filtering?

[PCM2]

Didn't they say in the blog post that Outlook was still aimed at the business user, while Outlook.com is for the individual/consumer?

If they didn't say it explicitly, that seems to be the idea, more or less. But what does that really mean? I am an individual, and I use email a certain way. Microsoft's ideas about "how people use email" just don't seem to jibe with mine.

I don't use email to organize picnics with my friends. I don't use email to send around pictures of my dog. I don't use email to find out what bar my friends are going to this weekend. I don't use email to trade around funny videos. I use Facebook for all of that. Why? I guess the short answer is that all of my friends switched to social networking for all of that stuff years ago, and if I tried doing any of it over email I'd get laughed at.

Those short emails that say "Hey how's it going, wanna meet up later?" are long gone from my life, too. That's what text messaging is for.

I think Microsoft realizes all of this deep down, and that's why it's worked so hard to embed Facebook features into its webmail. But think about it: That doesn't make any sense. I don't need Facebook features in my webmail (insert "Yo Dawg" picture of Xzibit here), because I already have a tab open with Facebook in it.

How hard is it to flip over to Facebook to do Facebook Chat with one of your Facebook contacts? How could it possibly be any easier or simpler to do it from Outlook.com, when Microsoft relies on Facebook's own APIs to do the integration?

I don't need a webmail client to do the Facebook stuff I already do in the next tab over. I just need email for doing the "serious" stuff of my life, like bills, notices from my bank, updates from the insurance company, sending spreadsheets to my accountant, etc. Does that make me a "business" user? Should I set up an Exchange server and use Outlook for that?

And maybe you're thinking, "Seriously? You don't have any friends who email you with personal stuff?" And it's true, I do -- like my aging mother, for instance. But again, if I have three friends on email and a hundred on social networks, why does it make sense to make the webmail client into my dominant UI? It seems like what I really need is for Facebook to turn its inbox into a bona fide mail client that can send email to people that aren't on Facebook, and then I'd have all the bases covered.

That's the kind of stuff I'm talking about when I say Microsoft's ideas don't seem to jibe with how I use email. It's adding stuff that I already do elsewhere and telling me that the stuff I do right now with my email client isn't what Outlook.com is for.

If Microsoft really wants Outlook.com to be the service that powers "the next million email accounts," and they say it's a service for individuals, then you'd think they'd want to cater it to how real people use email. Instead, it seems like they've built it around some statistical model of who the most dollar-valuable email "consumer" would be.

Now's your chance ...

[domulys]

... to snag that perfect e-mail address. Back in the days of hotmail, users would register addresses like surferdude@hotmail.com. Once gmail came around, they over-corrected and secured uber-professional addresses like firstname.m.lastname@gmail.com, which turn out to be pain to type into tiny phone keypads (or read aloud over the phone).

Two of my friends have already picked up first@outlook.com. Get 'em before they're gone!

Re:Now's your chance ...

[Anonymous Coward]

Get 'em before they're gone!

Problem: an "outlook.com" address will have all the respect of an aol.com address. So who cares?

Re:Now's your chance ...

[Anonymous Coward]

Two of my friends have already picked up first@outlook.com. Get 'em before they're gone!

That's going to get confusing when you want to email one of them individually.

Re:Now's your chance ...

[Anonymous Coward]

I wonder if support@outlook.com is still available ?

Re:Now's your chance ...

[Anonymous Coward]

I got my account just to say I got it.

I'm not appending stupid numbers to any of my accounts. Screw that noise.
First or never.

Re:Now's your chance ...

[heypete]

...or you could just get your own domain name and not worry about the availability of specific addresses ever again.

Re:Now's your chance ...

[hobarrera]

Two of my friends have already picked up first@outlook.com. Get 'em before they're gone!

They both picked up that address? Neat, I think I'll pick that one as well! :)

I like it...

[ethanms]

Nice clean UI, easy to use and fairly fast. I think this could be a good one. Though I don't like the idea of an @outlook.com domain for email...

Re:I like it...

[Anonymous Coward]

You don't need to.

Obvious strategy. Can they pull it off?

[crow]

This is something Microsoft should have undertaken immediately after acquiring Hotmail. Microsoft has a strong brand with Outlook, and it makes total sense to be using that brand for their webmail offering.

Doing it at this time also makes sense. They're making a big push for a new user interface ("metro"), and this is one more place where they can integrate that interface, making it consistent across their offerings.

Of course, the devil is in the details. If they do it wrong, it will weaken their Outlook brand and push existing customers towards competitors. On the other hand, they're getting a ton of free publicity, so they have a chance to capitalize on the moment and steal market share.

Unfortunately for Microsoft, they don't have a good history of execution on things like this--most likely the new platform will be horrible, but they'll keep at it, and after a few generations, it will be a decent competitor, but that's three to five years out.

But

[Anonymous Coward]

But how secure is it?

Re:But

[SJHillman]

Don't worry, nobody that doesn't pay Microsoft will be able to read your email.

Re:But

[just_a_monkey]

And law enforcement. And the NSA and the like. (But that goes without saying, of course.)

Re:But

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh ok! Let me get rid of Gmail right away! :)

-AC

Re:Good names available

[raydobbs]

I so totally see someone applying for a job with some religious organization someday, and giving that as your reply-to e-mail address. Instant interview stopper.

Where I come from... being called metro...

[oic0]

Where I come from when someone calls you metro, they mean metrosexual, which basically means you're a girly lesbian trapped in a mans body.

Re:Where I come from... being called metro...

[Thundaaa Struk]

So when will SheMail.com service come out?

ads?

[Cederic]

providing users with more granular control over which ads they see and where they see them

How about "none" and "ever"?

This is why I pay for independent email hosting..

Consult the Magic 8 Ball

[tompaulco]

The Magic 8 Ball says "Outlook not so good"

Re:Consult the Magic 8 Ball

[Anonymous Coward]

Why?

First thing that happened...

[Anonymous Coward]

Totally broken in my browser. How is it even possible to break HTML in this day and age? Oh... shitty JS that is not even necessary.

Re:First thing that happened...

[alices ice]

really? works in firefox, chrome, and safari for me...and i would assume someone there has tried it in explore at some point, maybe when balmer was looking over their shoulder or something.

Re:Good names available

[Anonymous Coward]

jesussucksdick@outlook.com is still available.

IMAP/Exchange support?

[nine-times]

I can't find any mention of it, but does it include either IMAP or Exchange support? One of my complaints about Hotmail is that they still haven't provided any accessibility from software clients except through POP, and POP isn't really appropriate anymore for personal email addresses.

Really, IMO, they should be using the same connectors as Exchange so you can access the calendar and address book from software clients. It's not as though they're unfamiliar with the technology. I suppose they don't want to make a decent free email service, though, since it would cannibalize their more expensive services. I guess I'll just stick with Gmail.

Re:IMAP/Exchange support?

[Anonymous Coward]

Hotmail already supports Exchange. Just search for instructions on how to use it.

Re:IMAP/Exchange support?

[Anonymous Coward]

Hotmail (nee MSN, Live, anything that you can use via hotmail.com) has provided Exchange support since 2009 I believe. That's how Android supports Hotmail, use m.hotmail.com as the Exchange server.

--sf

Re:IMAP/Exchange support?

[nine-times]

That's how Android supports Hotmail, use m.hotmail.com as the Exchange server.

Yeah, that's how *Android* supports Hotmail, but it doesn't work for desktop computers.

Re:IMAP/Exchange support?

[nine-times]

Hotmail supports ActiveSync for mobile clients. To my knowledge, it does not support Exchange for desktop clients.

Re:IMAP/Exchange support?

[Darinbob]

IMAP probably never. If IMAP caught on then Exchange would become less popular.

I wish my ISP allowed IMAP though, it seems quite a lot of them only support POP.

Re:IMAP/Exchange support?

[TheoCryst]

ActiveSync is available for Outlook 2010 and older as a plugin (called, in traditional MS fashion, the Microsoft Office Outlook Hotmail Connector), and I believe will be built into Outlook 2013 when it comes out. No clue about Mac Outlook though (AFAIK it's not currently supported).

Re:IMAP/Exchange support?

[Anonymous Coward]

That's how Android supports Hotmail, use m.hotmail.com as the Exchange server.

Yeah, that's how *Android* supports Hotmail, but it doesn't work for desktop computers.

Uhm yes, yes it does.

Re:IMAP/Exchange support?

[Anonymous Coward]

IMAP don't know, but it does appear to work with standard "Outlook/Exchange" profiles.

Re:Good names available

[SJHillman]

I got a.grim@outlook.com so everyone will know what an optimist I am

Privacy comparison Google, Yahoo, Outlook

[Anonymous Coward]

Found a helpful article about privacy policies between the various free email providers.
www.neowin.net/news/advertising-comparing-outlook-gmail-yahoo-privacy-policies

Summary:
Microsoft and it's newly launched Outlook.com falls closer to Yahoo!'s policy but takes it another step beyond what that service provides. Microsoft does not read your email or the attachments to serve you advertisements. Microsoft takes this a step further and does not display advertisements when reading your email and as stated from the Outlook.com preview guide: "With Outlook.com, the contents of your personal conversations aren’t used to serve ads. We don’t read your messages or attachments to send you advertisements. Period.

Re:Privacy comparison Google, Yahoo, Outlook

[Anonymous Coward]

To clarify, "personal conversations" seem to mean "person and person" in contrast to "organization and person". At least, that's what Engadget's and few other articles say.

How good are they at distinguishing "personal" vs "non-personal" is yet to be seen.

Re:Obvious strategy. Can they pull it off?

[SJHillman]

Hotmail had 8.5 million users when MS acquired... not bad for 1997. At the time, Hotmail may have been a stronger name than Outlook. At any rate, Outlook has generally been aimed at business users while Hotmail has been aimed at home users. But I agree that they still should have done this at least 10 years ago.

Very good/funny: MOD HIM UP "Funny"... apk

[Anonymous Coward]

Even I have to admit that, good one/very funny, so... someone mod him up, please & thanks!

Yes, I'm a known "Windows fanboy/Microsoft fanboy" on this website (not "Anti-Linux"/"Anti-'Open-SORES'" either, I just never like OR agreed with the "Linux = Secure, Windows != Secure b.s. &/or MacOS X = Secure, Windows != Secure b.s. FUD that was spewed around here for a decade++ now).

* Still, when it's funny, & TRULY funny? I have to go with the humor...

(Magic 8 ball says "Outlook not so good", & I've got one of those around here still... lol!)

APK

P.S.=> Thanks for the laugh, it was good & I needed it today... apk

Re:Very good/funny: MOD HIM UP "Funny"... apk

[Anonymous Coward]

With all those special characters, are you possibly a Perl-programmer?

Re:Good names available

[PCM2]

One thing worth noting about this whole Outlook.com land grab: The accounts you are signing up for are not email accounts, they are "Microsoft accounts." They are keyed to Microsoft's whole package of cloudy services, so when you login to Outlook.com, you're also logging into SkyDrive, Messenger, and whatever else gets provisioned for you. If it worries you how Google seems to follow you all around the web once you're logged in, well, this is the start of Microsoft doing it.

Re:Obvious strategy. Can they pull it off?

[ceoyoyo]

Hotmail is (and was) a stronger brand for free webmail than Outlook is. Most people who know Outlook as something other than "that crappy email client that comes with Windows?" probably aren't in the market for free webmail accounts.

I signed up back when it was HoTMaiL..

[Lashat]

to have a valid email that was not work related. Two reasons. 1. To sign up for downloads and other stuff on the internet. 2. To look for another job. I have had many work related emails since 1995, but the same my personal Hotmail account. I even have a short and easy username since I signed up so early in the HoTMaiL beta. I upgraded to a Plus account for a year or two, but then didn't seen the need after the free service caught up to my requirements. I have since setup another junk hotmail account for the original purpose of spam honeypot/junkmail collector.

Over the years I have been pleased with the updates Microsoft has implemented to Hotmail to varying degrees. I haven't seen any webmail offerings that compelling enough to leave my hotmail.com account. The current product serves my needs well enough FWIW, I plan to keep on using the account simply because it's so convenient and all my friends know the address. I don't care about the outlook.com domain name. Same way I didn't care about the msn.com domain name.

Who knows maybe someday it will be as cool as my Dad's arpa.net account.

Re:I signed up back when it was HoTMaiL..

[Dan541]

I signed up for Hotmail when this was their logo: http://s3.danscomp.net/hotmail_logo.gif

Memories.

No IMAP/SMTP

[execthis]

Hello no IMAP/SMTP support goodbye

Re:Good names available

[armanox]

That's pretty awesome actually.

I like the clean Metro look and smaller ads

[elabs]

I liked the Silverlight version of Hotmail. It was super snappy and jut felt really solid. The html viewers always seem kind of rickety to me. (I hate how I can highlight text on the body of the page. Ughhh.) Anyway, the main problem with the current Hotmail site is the heavy Flash ads. They hog tons of CPU. I'm glad to see these newer, more subdued ads on Outlook.com.

Re:Good names available

[WiiVault]

Because of course, satan only knows most people have more than one email...

Microsoft Mess

[rodrigoandrade]

myname@passport.com
myname@hotmail.com
myname@live.com
myname@outlook.com

I now have 4 Microsoft e-mail/IM IDs that basically do the same thing but don't talk to each other unless I manually merge them, which doesn't always work.

Thanks a lot Gates and Ballmer... and then you wonder why Page and Brin ate your lunch.

Re:Microsoft Mess

[Missing.Matter]

I'm not sure how the passport days worked, since I didn't have an ID then, but the transition from Live ID to Microsoft Account has been seamless. There's only one Microsoft account you can link to any address you prefer. You don't need a hotmail, or live, or outlook acount to have a Microsoft account. So, since your hotmail account at least, you've never needed a separate Microsoft ID. The live and outlook accounts were completely your choice.

Re:Microsoft Mess

[jader3rd]

Have you tried linking the accounts? What talking do you want the accounts to do with each other?

Re:Microsoft Mess

[rodrigoandrade]

I'll repeat: and then you [Microsoft] wonder why Page and Brin ate your lunch.

Why do I have to link accounts to make shit work if all 4 accounts are from the same provider?

Integration anyone?? This is why Google rocks. 1 account/password gets me e-mail, Youtube, Picasa, Docs, IM, news, etc. The real kicker is that some of these services were acquired by Google AFTER I had made my @gmail account, and they all work seamlessly, no "kinking" required.

With Microsoft, my IM contacts were on the Passport account, my Windows Mobile phone is on my Live account, etc.

Re:Microsoft Mess

[Osty]

1 account/password gets me e-mail, Youtube, Picasa, Docs, IM, news, etc

To be fair, you're really kinda doing it wrong. A single "Microsoft Account" (that literally be any email account like -- mine's my gmail address) gets you access to all of Microsoft's properties -- Xbox, Zune, all the Live properties like Messenger, Bing and Bing Rewards, Skydrive, Office Online, etc. Mail through hotmail.com or live.com or outlook.com is all the same (well, I don't think hotmail.com has upgraded yet, but the others are the same -- in fact for me, outlook.com just redirects to a mail.live.com domain). You have the option to get a different address, for example if you're allergic to @hotmail.com and want to have @live.com or @outlook.com instead, but you don't have to. If you decide you do want multiples, you can create aliases (my @outlook.com address is an alias on my @gmail.com Microsoft Account). If you don't want to do aliases, you can easily change your Microsoft Account name (email address) whenever you like (have foo@hotmail.com and want it to be bar@live.com? Change it on your current account, don't just create a new account). The only difference between this and Google is that Google doesn't really give you a choice of other names. And at least with Microsoft accounts you can link them if you want. You can't link multiple gmail accounts.

With Microsoft, my IM contacts were on the Passport account, my Windows Mobile phone is on my Live account, etc.

That's your own fault for creating a new account every time you do something (I bet you have yet another account for Xbox, eh?). You know that part where is says "Login to your account or create a new account"? Yeah, you can log into your account there. You don't have to create a new account.

Re:Microsoft Mess

[jader3rd]

Why do I have to link accounts

I don't know if you have to link accounts, it was just a suggestion in the event it was what you're looking for. I don't know what you're trying to accomplish. I have a couple Live ID's and I linked them, and it can be a handy way of switching from one account to the other. It's certainly not the greatest thing. Is there anything you can do with on Live ID that you can't do with another?

Improved Privacy

[Anonymous Coward]

One nice benefit of outlook.com over gmail is that it doesn't use your conversations for advertising. The degree to which my gmail account would integrate ads always seemed a bit fishy to me. I'm suprised there isn't more conversation about this.

Pure dumb gold from MS

[WiiVault]

On the login page it lets us know this is a "Preview of modern email from Microsoft". So are they admitting Hotmail/Livemail is a pile of shit and we are all suckers for using it?

Re:Pure dumb gold from MS

[isorox]

On the login page it lets us know this is a "Preview of modern email from Microsoft". So are they admitting Hotmail/Livemail is a pile of shit and we are all suckers for using it?

Hotmail is gold compared to exchange's webmail frontend

Re:Pure dumb gold from MS

[PCM2]

Hotmail is gold compared to exchange's webmail frontend

Eh? Outlook Web Access (the Exchange webmail front end) was pretty pioneering. It basically kicked off the whole AJAX craze. And most people actually seem to like it.

Informally, however, Microsoft reps have told me that the next version of OWA will probably look very much like Outlook.com.

Re:Pure dumb gold from MS

[isorox]

Hotmail is gold compared to exchange's webmail frontend

Eh? Outlook Web Access (the Exchange webmail front end) was pretty pioneering. It basically kicked off the whole AJAX craze. And most people actually seem to like it.

Informally, however, Microsoft reps have told me that the next version of OWA will probably look very much like Outlook.com.

Perhaps it's cause we're still on exchange 2003, but it's a lot worse than squirrelmail from the late 90s. No search functionality either.

It's not necessarily a problem with Microsoft, more the culture that Microsoft, and their corporate agents (MSCEs etc) push out. Microsoft-fueled corporate IT is one of the worst things about any workplace.

Another New Microsoft Product!!!

[bbbaldie]

I guess Redmond's new business strategy is throw enough dirty pairs of underwear against the wall and something is bound to stick sooner or later...

Re:Good names available

[Anonymous Coward]

Not any more

Re:Good names available

[Missing.Matter]

More like an expansion. Microsoft has been following you around for a while now. Before the Microsoft Account there was Windows Live ID, and before that there was Passport and Wallet. This is just the next in line of tracking your movements between properties, now including the OS and Windows Marketplace.

Re:Good names available

[Darinbob]

Apple is similar in that it wants an "Apple ID" to get onto some of its weird online stuff.

You've been bogusly down moderated

[Anonymous Coward]

For offering your opinion, which upsets the multiple account using scumbag trolls around here. It's not a first by any means, and one of their own even states how it works:

"It just takes one Ubuntu sympathizer or PR flack to minus-moderate any comment. Unfortunately, once PR agencies and so on started paying people to moderate online communities, and to have hundreds of accounts each, things changed." - by Bruce Perens (3872) on Friday July 30, @03:55PM (#33089192) Homepage Journal

SOURCE -> http://linux.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1738364&cid=33089192

It's pretty sad when one of the BIG NAME "Open SORES" people even knows how the idiots around here and elsewhere work online (which is why they ruin it for themselves, as deceits never go too far before being caught).

Re:You've been bogusly down moderated

[Anonymous Coward]

APK? Is that you?

Re:You've been bogusly down moderated

[Anonymous Coward]

Correct. I checked http://slashdot.org/~tomhudson last post on May 2 2012 and http://slashdot.org/~Barbara,+not+Barbie last post on May 21 2012 and both are barbara hudson on the pages shown. Slashdot's falling apart and it's these sock puppet trolls that are making it happen

Re:You've been bogusly down moderated

[Anonymous Coward]

Look everyone: It's the stalking psycho that harasses apk on /. again that's so deluded that he thinks everyone is apk!

Re:You've been bogusly down moderated

[Anonymous Coward]

APK's the one person on slashdot the linux trolls and shills fear the most here since they constantly attack and stalk him. I've seen enough of it to know that much and when a person gets ad hominem attacked as much as apk does it's proof enough. What I've always found amusing is the trolls from linux land always have to resort to ad hominem attacks against him but can't ever disprove apk's points and facts he uses. It is downright hilarious how he proves that much every single time too.

Integration with it's own products

[hobarrera]

Integrations with it's own products is it's main issue. Most users don't use MS's calendar/chat/etc, so integration with those adds little value.
Integration with XMPP means that people might consider using it, since they can still chat with their xmpp/gtalk contacts.
Integration with caldav means people will use their CURRENT calendar.

At the moment, it's either migrate EVERYTHING, or don't use it. Most people wan't bother.

I'd actually probably tell some friend that hates google to try it out if it had XMPP integrated, since it would mean I'd be able to chat with them more often.

Taking off my anti-Microsoft hat for a sec...

[Anonymous Coward]

Looks quite nice. Responsive too. DON'T KILL ME SLASHDOT!!!!

HTML only

[hobarrera]

Wow, I actually tried this a few minutes.
The interface is horrible, most of the screen is generally unused, and fields (like where you write an email) have no border, so it's hard to tell where they end.

Plus, all mail is always html. No plain-text email. No option to disable this so-called-feature either, so users will only be able to send html-emails, to the annoyance of many recipients.

Re:HTML only

[Anonymous Coward]

Options-> Plain Text.

There's also an Options->Edit in HTML which lets you play around with the HTML manually.

Re:HTML only

[Anonymous Coward]

You can choose plain text from the 'Options' drop-down when you're composing an email.

Re:HTML only

[u38cg]

How many people are there out there who are genuinely inconvenienced by receiving an HTML email these days? I, for one, still send in plain text by default but frankly it ceased to be an issue of interest to me some time circa 2002.

New SpamFilters

[SuDZ]

Time to update the spam filters from hotmail.com to outlook.com

nomore@hotmail.com

[tommy8]

Microsoft is getting rid of @hotmail.com for new users. Outlook.com and live.com will be all u can choose from

Great news, but ...

[Anonymous Coward]

I really like the recent developments by Microsoft. After capturing a considerable market of HyperV's and Cloud computing from its great rivalry VMware. Now Microsoft's 800 pound gorilla is ready to compete Google in this email client industry. I am really looking forward to see some new and innovative features in Outlook.com, and hope Microsoft will not disappoint us by just replicating the same functions and features that it already has in Hotmail. Here's a nice blog explaining how and why Microsoft will dominate Hypervisors, VDI, Cloud & more in 2012: http://www.dincloud.com/blog/why-Microsoft-for-virtualization-explained If anyone is planning to write a blog or an article on how or why Microsoft will dominate this email hosting industry, please keep me posted. Thanks.

Sorry, but you are incorrect

[Anonymous Coward]

In Thunderbird, using IMAP, gmail's labels work flawlessly. the deleting thing is minor, and you can always just tell your client not to sync the 'all mail' 'folder'

Ho-Hum

[Anonymous Coward]

Just created an account to placehold my name. :-)

I'm not over impressed with it, and if they migrate hotmail over to to the interface then I suppose I'll use hotmail even less - and thats "not much" as it is! I've had my hotmail account since (I think) 1997 so it'll be sad to see it end up as another throwaway spam attractor address. Oh well, thats how it goes once the marketing/focus group droids get to decide what is best for the user.

One thing I noted, on the profile page, the way to return to the inbox is to click a link called "hotmail".....

Re:Good names available

[Conception]

Foolishly, they allow outlook in the username. So...uh... have fun with that guys!

dont click it if you use hotmail

[Billly Gates]

According to www.zdnet.com (Win fanboys I know) if you even go there it will automatically cancel your hotmail and give you an outlook.com address without your consent and import everything. Once in you can't go back etc.

I use gmail now and have only 1 hotmail account active (from before it was acquired by Microsoft) for certain job postings. I will be sure not to check it out with me logged in with hotmail.

Just be forewarned!

LIVE

[Archangel Michael]

It is just "live" email with a new front end, and domain name. :-/ Meh

https://blu002.mail.live.com/default.aspx

Mod Parent Up Please

[heteromonomer]

Just used up all my points. Why was this modded flamebait? It's insightful.

QUIT FUCKING WITH EMAIL YOU IDIOTS!

[sootman]

Yeah, it's so much better to have an "Arrange by" button that leads to a dropdown menu instead of clickable column headings. Fucking retards.

Still, better than Gmail, which doesn't let you sort at all. But fuck, why is everyone so in love with change-for-the-sake-of-change? Some things are just RIGHT. Like sorting by clicking on column headings.

From the welcome email:

Along the way, if you've got any questions, comments, or concerns, please submit that feedback via the options menu in our header.

THERE IS NO OPTIONS MENU. If you mean "click the picture of the gear", then say "click the picture of the gear"!

Re:Good names available

[Anonymous Coward]

Ugh ... I hope this doesn't replace GFWL, because I really don't need another service that wants my info, before it will let me play games I bought via steam.

The trillion tiny little fuck-ups....

[blind biker]

The trillion tiny little fuck-ups by Microsoft are fully evident in this new service: I am not allowed to enter my mobile phone number because apparently "it is not suitable in my region". Right.

And I got immediately an alert that someone tried to use my account without authorization so I have to immediately change my password.

Some other localization issues and forcing me to use a language I don't want to use... oh well, thanks for reminding me of what piece of crap Microsoft products are (still).

Nice of Google/Youtube to host the video for them

[Anonymous Coward]

Did anyone else find it odd that the video on outlook.com is hosted on Google/Youtube?

Why the maximum password length?

[Hero Zzyzzx]

You are required to pick a password of 16 characters or less - why? I blogged about maximum password length restrictions before, and I would like to hear a compelling reason why this is needed. Otherwise, I can only assume they are storing them in plaintext.

Re:Why the maximum password length?

[Shados]

People just seem to like putting data limits for the sake of limiting. Like in databases. How many times do you see a company that has a small-ish data set (a few hundred mb to a few gb tops), running on a machine with several terrabytes of discs, then the people designing the database stop and argue for 15 minutes about if some data field or another should allow 20 or 22 characters.

Just put variable 500 (or whatever) and call it a day. Now of course Microsoft's systems are much bigger in scale, but I'd think if you have so many users that the length of the password of a select VERY FEW is causing you performance/storage problem, you're in good shape business wise to tackle it =P

Re:Why the maximum password length?

[backwardsposter]

Not that this is evidence of them storing in Plaintext, like at all, but I too was thinking about whether or not they were storing it in plain text...when I was creating my account and entering my password and my security question. When my security question contained the same word as my password (albeit different cases and one has numbers) I got the error "Your password and your secret answer can't contain any of the same words. Enter a different password or a different secret answer."

I was curious and after creating the account I just went in to change my security question to have the same word as my password again and I got the same error "Your password and your secret answer can't contain any of the same words. Enter a different password or a different secret answer." Now the cases are different, so we know they're not hashing to the same value (since part of their password policy is that it's case sensitive) so they're either in plaintext, or interpreting it so they can compare it, or lying about it being case sensitive. I'm not super happy about either of these choices. Note: I did not have to enter my password on this page.

Either way, could be worth someone looking into...

Re:Why the maximum password length?

[ZigMonty]

The password itself shouldn't even be stored, only the hash. And the hash is always the same length regardless of how long the original password was. Limits on password length really are the dumbest limits around.

Re:Why the maximum password length?

[Shados]

Absolutely. My main point was that people just seem to like arbitrary limits for no reason, even in other scenarios and apply that logic to passwords which is even worse

Two reasons not to switch already

[stud9920]

1) their CAPTCHA doesn't let humans in. I made at least ten tries, none was successful. Maybe with a bot I would succeed
2) no Android client app. I know it would hurt their WP7/8 sales, but both the mail offering and their sorry attempt at a phone OS have to prove themselves

Re:Good names available

[Anonymous Coward]

Really? You beat Balmer to it? Nice!

Simple as...

[Anonymous Coward]

No non-JS, no outlook.com for me. I would have thought that by this point in time providing the core content in an accessible manner would be a no-brainer. Guess devs today are too concerned about being 'clean' and 'awesome' for that sort of silliness - looks like accessibility has become 'old-school'. Can't wait for history to repeat itself -once again-!

outlook privacy

[sublime_stephy]

Is Outlook really going to make emails more private? http://www.frequency.com/video/welcome-to-outlookcom/55654049/-/4-4189

Re:Good names available

[KhabaLox]

Apple is similar in that it wants an "Apple ID" to get onto some of its weird online stuff.

You mean like encryption key parties?

Do Microsoft still own anything you post?

[UpnAtom]

Seem to remember this was a clause in Hotmail's T&C about 10 years ago.

Re:Do Microsoft still own anything you post?

[Anonymous Coward]

Every service on the internet has a clause like this, except it's not really "own everything you post", but something like "right to copy, distribute, ..., create derivative works exclusively for purposes of promoting, enhancing, ...., developing and providing services"

Re:Good names available

[Darinbob]

No, like app stores, cloud storage, etc.

Re:Good names available

[Anonymous Coward]

What's Steve Ballmer using then?

Don't forget Google Groups!

[antdude]

I hate the new Google Groups' GUI!! I can't stand it. I am back to using my old newsreaders (Tin, Pan, Mozilla's SeaMonkey, etc.).

(personal) User Experience

[valentinas]

I saw a headline and decided to try it out. The website said that if I have a hotmail/windows live/etc account I can use it to log-in. This is what happened next:

1. 1. I enter my login details and click login
2. 2. outlook.com says that my hotmail account was being used by someone else (I'm not surprised - it was a throw-away account) and that I have to change my password. I notice that a randomly generated 32 char password doesn't fit. It turns out they only let you have 16 chars in the password. Cool. I enter my new password and click submit.
3. 3. outlook.com asks me if I have alternative email address or phone number - in case I forget the password. I enter only phone number.
4. 4. outlook.com says that my account has been used by someone else (again) and asks me to enter my phone number (which I already have entered in previous screen) so they could send me a txt message with code. I enter my phone number. The text message arrives with 4 digit number. I enter the number.
5. 5. outlook.com says that we're almost done and asks me to change my password again before starting using the service. It's starting to annoy me so I try to enter the same password as before. They won't let me use it. I try to use randomly generated 32 char password. It fits in the box, but I get error message saying that password can only be up to 16 characters long. I delete half of the password and try again. It says now that the password contains invalid characters (but it doesn't say what characters are invalid or what characters are allowed). I delete some characters from the password (space, apostrophe, etc..) leaving pretty much alphanumeric-only characters. This time it accepts me.
6. 6. outlook.com presents me with big form to create my account, including fields for new password and phone number. None of the fields are pre-populated. I try pressing "Ok", since I thought that I already have an account and entered my new password and phone number enough times. It gives me back the same form with almost every field saying that it's mandatory. There's no link to skip it or otherwise get away from it. I fill in the form (this time the previously set password is accepted) and click ok.
7. 7. next screen says that I'm already logged in with my hotmail account and asks if I want to log-out from it and log-in with outlook.com account. I'm afraid to get more forms to fill in, so I just navigate to outlook.com with a hope that it will work. And it does. It shows my inbox for hotmail.com account.

tl;dr: I wouldn't trust them.

Re:(personal) User Experience

[shvytejimas]

3. The country name for my phone number (Lithuania, +370) isn't even on the list (neither was Latvia though both are in the "where are you?" country list). And apparently the phone number is a required field (alternative e-mail address isn't enough?) so I just put rubbish there.

Re:Obvious strategy. Can they pull it off?

[n7ytd]

This is something Microsoft should have undertaken immediately after acquiring Hotmail. Microsoft has a strong brand with Outlook, and it makes total sense to be using that brand for their webmail offering.

Doing it at this time also makes sense.

[...]

...they don't have a good history of execution on things like this--most likely the new platform will be horrible, but they'll keep at it

They'll keep at it, but it's as if they think everyone in the world is too stupid to remember how many times they'll fumble and reintroduce the same product with a different name every two years.

It continually amazes me when companies dump tons of money into acquiring a brand only to try their best to drive people away from using that brand rather than nurture the brand.

So which is it, Microsoft? Is it Hotmail, MSN, Live, or Outlook that you want me to think of when I want to check my e-mail? Going to Outlook.com redirects me to live.com to sign up. But, I don't use my "Windows Live ID" to login, I should now start calling it my "Microsoft account", even though I don't log in anywhere on microsoft.com with such a thing. Why not just give me a bing.com address? At least when people sent me mail there they would think of your other product.

Then again, this is the company that gave the same name to both a table and a tablet and spends marketing dollars to brand the sodas in their own cafeterias to educate their workforce on the names of their products.

How far does this reach?

[Anonymous Coward]

I recently went through much ache and pain to close out my Hotmail account. I hope this doesnt wave some magical Microsoft wand and reopen my Hotmail account. Microsoft said I couldn't simply close out the Hotmail account, I had to file a request and then wait a whole year of not logging into the account before it gets closed. Given that I have 9 months of waiting until that year is up, I fear the account may open back up. Anyone have any ideas on it?

Maybe I can get one again!

[billstewart]

Maybe now I can get a Microsoft email again, now that it's Outlook.com. Many years ago, my cat signed up for Hotmail, and used her real name and age, so when they came out with that "need to be 13 years old" restriction, they froze her account. The only way to unlock it would have been to use a credit card, but if I did that, she'd be logging on to Amazon with it and ordering cases of tuna, so no way.
(Although come to think of it, she's probably 13 years old by now; I'll have to check what year we got her.)

not recommended

[kenorland]

it works fast and the UI looks great.

The UI doesn't give any visual indication of what is static text and what is actually an active button. It looks very pretty, but it isn't very usable.

In addition, outlook.com leaks your identity all over the Internet.

Not recommended.

lookout@outlook.com is taken

[billstewart]

Not really a big surprise there....

Re:Good names available

[PCM2]

Before the Microsoft Account there was Windows Live ID, and before that there was Passport and Wallet.

True. I'm not really sure there's much of a technical difference between Microsoft Account and Windows Live ID. But Microsoft really does seem to be expanding the role of the Microsoft Account considerably, leading up to the launch of Windows 8.

Picture a future in which your mom calls you up in a panic because all her vacation photos have disappeared. You calm her down, have her sit down at the computer, and you say, "OK, first off, make sure you're logged in to Microsoft..."

Re:Good names available

[shutdown -p now]

Microsoft Account is just a rebranded Live ID, which in turn is just a rebranded Microsoft Passport. There isn't anything next in line here, really, it's same old.

Which one of Lord Limecat's multiple accounts are

[Anonymous Coward]

Trolls like you do that here all the time and Lord "douchebag" Limecat is a punk troll!

Shut up you multiple account using troll

[Anonymous Coward]

"It just takes one Ubuntu sympathizer or PR flack to minus-moderate any comment. Unfortunately, once PR agencies and so on started paying people to moderate online communities, and to have hundreds of accounts each, things changed." - by Bruce Perens (3872) on Friday July 30, @03:55PM (#33089192) Homepage Journal

SOURCE -> http://linux.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1738364&cid=33089192

We know how you Open SORES trolls work around here too with a quote from one of your own above no less, a very famous one! Who do you assholes *think* you're fooling, hmmm? It's the reason you're in dead-last place, because you all practice deceits by the shed load in having multiple accounts around here also!

I agree

[Anonymous Coward]

This site's become infested by little pencil neck geek whimps that play games like women do. I suspect you are 100% correct. They can't handle their open sores bullshit is in dead last place and always will be so they will try *anything* to attempt to discredit the company that has floored them for decades on all levels on pc's and servers combined. Trust me, I've seen all of their tricks here on slashdot. They're mostly limp dick pencil neck geek losers that will never amount to a damn thing that scheme and gossip like bitches, lol. Fuuniest part of all is, "free" should have won out LONG ago, but it hasn't - why? Their Open sores crap isn't all that good is why, and when it does get used, it's because it keeps cost down. For years around here all you heard was "Windows is not secure, Linux is" what a crock of shit that turned out to be when Linux's kernel began showing remotely exploitable errors over time and then android on smartphones which is a linux is getting torn to shreds by malware almost daily. No, these little punks will pull anything they can and don't realize how see through transparent their little tricks are. Makes me laugh, and I am glad to see that you realize that also.

Dear Mr. Missing BRAIN Matter

[Anonymous Coward]

What have you ever done that's such a credit to the internet you punk? Nothing. You're nothing more than a pencil neck geek and not even good at it.

Agreed

[Anonymous Coward]

These little open sores dorks have ruined this website with their wannabe clever tricks and most of them have many registered accounts they use to upmod themselves or their pals (real or fake accounts) and downmod anyone that says anything good about competitors, mostly Microsoft. They are so easily seen through it's not even funny. Glad you realize and stated what you have, as it is the truth. These morons don't even realize they are ruining one of the best forums they have to spread the word of their works by their antics and trust me: I have seen them all since 2004 here.

I think the Metro tile thing has gone too far.

[Gordo_1]

I logged into Outlook.com to see what the deal is. Well, it's not terrible I guess, but what's the sudden fascination with hiding functions in plain site? Can there not be a button that actually resembles a button before you mouse over it? Even then, instead of an obvious button that pops up on mouseover, there a subtle change in color to denote you're on a clickable area. I feel like I have to methodically scan the mouse back and forth across the screen to discover stuff that's hiding.

Example: Bet you didn't even notice that the word 'Outlook' in the top left corner of the page is actually a menu... Why is this better than say spending a pixel and putting a border around the damn thing? It can't be because it looks better this way, because if they were trying to make things look good, they wouldn't have forced the UI team to recycle DOS Shell.

Silouette buttons

[Anonymous Coward]

1. Silhouette buttons more difficult to recognize. Who in their right minds thinks 'well these buttons would be nicer in silhouette'????!
2. No grouping of the elements of an email, so you get a white backed email in a white design, with white backgrounds to everything. What is the email, what is the page fluff? No clear distinction. In the old design they stuck a coloured border around the email part.
3. The menus on the left are really hierarchical but have never been clearly done. The new design makes it even less clear by reducing the highlighting.
4. The yellow highlight 'mail deleted' was always difficult to spot, now its a popup, it's worse. You just don't notice it on big screens.
5. There used to be a border around the email, see 2, that was colour coded to the menu showing which section you were in. They removed the colour coding, now only a small bar on the left indicates the current selection. Why??

mcdouche, step inside

[Anonymous Coward]

You toss accusations. I'll toss one YOUR way pusscake: You're one of the big pro Linux or open sores shills around here which everyone knows that you have multiple registered accounts here to try "sway others" with by modding yourself up by using those other fake sock puppet accounts here and to down moderate your opponents even when you are so full of shit in your ad hominem attacks and lack of technical skills in the science of computing it's made me laugh out loud reading your shillshit online. I have a question for you you trolling little shill scumbag: How come open sores and Linux are in dead last place on pc's and servers combined, hmmm? Perhaps it's because your shitware's not better than Microsoft's? Absolutely. Still, let's hear your spin bullshit now. It ought to be good for a laugh! How come "free" open sores ware and operating systems are in dead last place?? Free should have dusted Microsoft long ago and hasn't! Why? See above, and argue with the numbers you multiple account using scumbag. Good luck arguing against overwhelming odds and facts.

Crutchy you little Linux shill, step inside

[Anonymous Coward]

Time to BLOW YOU AWAY boy with facts vs. that crap I quote from you next:

"the bigger companies get, the more they tend to eventually gravitate towards linux, which i very much doubt has anything to do with fanbois" - by crutchy (1949900) on Tuesday July 31, @05:45PM (#40834859)

Especially since Windows combined pc + server marketshare utterly blows away Linux on that account by MANY ORDERS OF MAGNITUDE) - however, since you're full of shit in that quote & I know the split at the server level in major companies is around 50/50 (despite Linux being FREE, lol, which should have gutted MS ages ago & it hasn't? Apparently, your "Open SORES" is not as good). Don't like that? Argue with the numbers that are widely known above, and these facts (heh, they won't even all fit, but what will you won't be able to match):

367++ TOP FORTUNE 100/500 (or best 100 to work for per CNN Money) COMPANIES, EDUCATIONAL INSTITUTIONS, &/or GOVERNMENT AGENCIES USING WINDOWS (over other solutions like Linux) both in HIGH TPM ENVIRONS, & FROM "TOP 100 COMPANIES TO WORK FOR" (per CNN Money 2011):

---

38 HIGH TPM & 99.999% "uptime" examples:

---

XEROX: Managing 7++ million transactions a day for office devices for its customers using Windows Server 2003 + SQLServer 2005 64-bit with 99.999% uptime!

NASDAQ: The U.S.' LARGEST STOCK EXCHANGE, Since 2005 has had Windows Server 2003 + SQLServer 2005 in failover clusters running the "official trade data dissemination system" for them in 24x7 fabled "5-9's" 99.999% uptime, doing 64,000 transactions PER SECOND (compare London Stock Exchange using Linux @ 3,000 per second)

FUJIFILM GROUP: Tracks data for its imaging, information, & documentation for its products & services using Windows Server 2003 w/ a custom SAP solution on SQLServer 2005, achieving 99.999% uptime.

HILTON HOTELS: Manages 1.4 Billion records a day for customers in 1000's of their hotels worldwide - for 370,000 rooms & catering services forecasts (switching from 6 *NIX systems to 1 Windows Server 2003 + SQLServer 2005 clustered failover system using a data warehouse with 7 million rows & 99.998% uptime).

MEDITERRANEAN SHIPPING COMPANY: Manages & Tracks 7 million containers out of 116 countries daily using Windows Server 2003 + SQLServer 2005 in failover clusters with 99.999% uptime.

SWISS INTERNATIONAL AIRLINES: Serves 70 airport destinations worldwide, with 6,500 employees + 110 branch offices via Windows Server 2003 & Active Directory with 99.95% uptime (all while growing their business 30% per year). THEIR PREVIOUS LINUX SYSTEM COULD ONLY HANDLE 250 concurrent users - the Windows one handles over 500++ users concurrently/simultaneously!

UNILEVER: Global consumer good leader, migrated to mySAP on SQLServer 2005 + Windows Server 2003 & scaled UP their operations by over 200% & yet saved money + have 99.999% uptime!

MOTOROLA: Using System Management Server, Windows Server 2003 & SQLServer 2005 to conduct inventory of 65,000 desktops from a single location (e.g. for system updates corporate & worldwide).

NISSAN: Uses Windows Server 2003 to manage 50,000 employees' email & calendaring (w/ out VPN, & using Exchange Server 2003) for local AND remote + mobile users.

TOYOTA MOTOR SALES: Reduced the # of techs needed per dealership (1,000's worldwide) from 7, to 1 using Windows Server 2003.

SIEMENS: 420,000++ people, 130 business units over 190 countries managed in Windows Active Directory

REUTERS: Managing 3,000 servers worldwide @ customer sites internationally (using only 4 managers to do so, remotely).

DELL COMPUTER: Managing 130,000 servers & 100,000 PC's worldside using Windows Server 2003 + 40 million customers' data worldwide.

LEXIS NEXIS: Searches BILLIONS of documents each second delivering news, legal, & busine

Re:Crutchy you little Linux shill, step inside

[crutchy]

dude, nobody likes you. you're a douchebag, and you're repetitive garbage isn't even worth reading

Re:Obvious strategy. Can they pull it off?

[rsborg]

Of course, the devil is in the details. If they do it wrong, it will weaken their Outlook brand and push existing customers towards competitors.

What competitors? IBM/Lotus? Seriously, the groupware / enterprise email market is pretty much dominated by Microsoft already.

Re:Good names available

[Anonymous Coward]

I have no problem with Microsoft "following" me all around the web, simply because I don't think they do that.

Nobody but Microsoft is using them for tracking, which means that you only have to worry about them when you're on Microsoft's own websites (unlike googleanalytics etc). That is frankly not an issue in my opinion because the information stays with the party you chose to give it to. Also, when a Microsoft site tracks you, they use their own in-house tracking rather than some third party, which means that the data stays at Microsoft.

If Google did the same (limited their tracking to visits to their own websites rather than permitting people to inject Google-tracking into their own sites), I would probably unblock Google's domains and IP-ranges from my firewalls.

Top Tips

[David Gerard]

MICROSOFT. Rebrand Hotmail as Outlook.com to fill users with warm happy thoughts of Monday morning 9am at the office.

added labor for IT

[Anonymous Coward]

Great, now I get to ask people "no, is it Outlook the program or Outlook dot com?" to which I will surely follow it up with "do you have to go to a web browser to access it?" and then of course the third thing will be "like Internet Explorer or Firefox"....

Sigh

Who needs new email?

[Rexdude]

I wonder. All the Hotmail users would probably be migrated over to this new system, but who else? The masses use Facebook. People here have their own email solutions. Others who still prefer webmail are on either Gmail or Yahoo, and at this stage have had their accounts for easily 8 years or more and are accustomed to how they work. Regular folk are not the sort to try out something new just because.
And seriously, this is nothing like how new and clean and different GMail was when it launched in 2004.
So when neither the masses nor the technical folk are interested, just who will it be? Maybe we'll get our viagra spam from outlook.com instead of hotmail.com.

1 million users in first few hours? Amazing

[Ali Liaqat]

WoW! That was so quick. Well, there is no doubt that Microsoft is best at marketing its products and services. After capturing a considerable chunk of HyperV's and Cloud computing market from its great rivalry VMware. Now Microsoft's 800 pound gorilla is ready to compete Google in this email client industry. The new features are cool, and worth switching back to MS's re-branded Hotmail (which is Outlook.com). Also Here's a nice blog explaining how and why Microsoft will dominate Hypervisors, VDI, Cloud & more in 2012: http://www.dincloud.com/blog/why-Microsoft-for-virtualization-explained If anyone is planning to write a blog or an article on how or why Microsoft will dominate this email hosting industry, please keep me posted. Thanks.

Safe Mail and Tor Mail are best for Tor purposes!

[Anonymous Coward]

While I trust neither Safe Mail or Tormail, they work for me for anonymous purposes through Tor.

Microsoft? I wouldn't trust them with anything.