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Ask Slashdot: Best Computer For a 7-Year Old?
First time accepted submitter Boldizar writes "My son turns seven next month and I'd like to buy him a cheap computer. I'm looking for the Slashdot hivemind opinion on what would be the best computer for a child. I'm looking for a computer that will teach him basic computer literacy, and hopefully one wherein the guts are a bit exposed so that he can learn how a computer works rather than just treating it like a magic object (i.e., iPad) – but that would still keep him interested and without leaving him behind in school. For the same reason, I prefer a real keyboard so he can learn to type. I don't know enough about computers to frame the question intelligently. Perhaps something in the $300 range that would be the computer equivalent of an old mechanical car engine? Another way to think about it: I'm looking for the computer equivalent of teaching my son how to survive in the forest should the zombie apocalypse ever come."
Lot's of trolls say it has a Fischer Price interface.
Best of all the youngster can learn some UNIX as well
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the Raspberry Pi pretty much what you're looking for?
Small and light, with small keyboard, cheap and still quite capable. Pick one that comes with Windows 7 but that also supports Linux. That way if one OS doesn't work, you're not stuck.
Since you probably want your child to learn touch typing (using all fingers, always the same finger for the same key) you should get one with a smaller keyboard (netbook?) since touch typing is not possible if your hands are too small for a regular keyboard. (OTOH this could be problematic if he has to use full sized keyboards at school)
get him the cheapest dell or hp box. you can install it like any pc, and with the pull of a single lever you expose the innards of the pc where you can point out interesting shiny objects on the motherboard to your son.
I sure hope your son had a family computer to play on, and this is you asking about buying him one for himself for the first time.
If not, I believe you need to turn in your geek badge, sir.
I just cleaned up an old Dell Latitude D410 for my 7-year-old - reinstalled an old copy of XP and it works great. It was a leftover from my wife's work. Battery doesn't work but I figure that's a good thing since I don't really want him taking it around with him any old place - just at his desk and for very limited blocks of time. As for software we've been enjoying MIT's Scratch. It's a great programming environment for kids that he really loves to play with. He can actually manipulate graphical sprites with sounds, move them around on the screen, and encode logic using a graphical lego-brick-style metaphor.
Firstly, I'd ask you WHY you'd want him to learn anything in particular, than - everything?
A computer is just ONE part of his life, if you want him to be "computer smart", you know...understand todays technology, just give into his curiosity, it's very dangerous to "force" a kid into anything, it's better to just let them stumble upon anything in their way, and support them there any way you can.
I'm sure it will come naturally. If he's a gamer, let him play with consoles.
If he's curious how these things are made, introduce him to a computer with a simple Programming IDE set up for him...like Python and SDL. (Just like we grew up with C64 and basic, you know...)
etc..
What this world is coming to - is for you and me to decide.
Get him started off programming BASIC, and then inlining bits of machine code. He'll be a natural in no time.
Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
Is you child a genius?
(What will it gain from using a computer that investing in a better education won't facilitate?)
What do you expect him/her to do with it?
(Think of it this way, you can't answer the question, "what computer meets my needs," unitl you define them for yourself.)
Have you considered what you where you're steering your kid by instructing him/her to believe that they 'need' a computer or the ability to use one at age 7?
(I'm a fan of teaching people to think and understand the nature of their involvement and activity before picking up a hammer and whatcking away at anything, but if you want to give your kid a hammer at age 7, have him hit the 1st computer he encounters and ask his teachers if it was a bad idea afterward.)
My two kids (ages 3 and 5) have access to 6 computers in our household which are running various operating systems (Linux, FreeBSD, Windows, OS X) and yet they use iPads the most. I actually had to buy the second iPad for them because they were fighting over the first one all the time.
Why do they love iPads? Apps. iPad has more apps for kids than any other platform I know of. And it's easy to use too.
Someone for sure have an unused pentium III or IV. Take it, get a copy of some linux flavour and start playing with spare hardware, CPUs and so on. And save 300$ for some special device or peripheral :-)
Why not build it together, with your child. The experience of putting something together and making it work will far exceed any other expectations you may have.
the magic box, you are refering to, iPad or a galaxy tablet, is unfortunatly, i my opinion, the right step for your kid.
what used to be hardrives and procesors is now solidstate, flashdrives and ARM procesors. It is very noble that you still want to teach him about the hardware, but if we use cars as an analogy, you want to teach him on a steam engine how a combustion engine works...
our kids will grow up a lot faster with technology than we did, give them the most up to date examples, because in 10 years a StarTrek like science fiction will be common practice
see >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Star_Trek_PADD.jpg
I think any particular computer hardware is less relevant than becoming an internet native. Learning how to find things on the internet is the most useful computer skill you could teach him.
A lot of secondary skills will be picked up along the way, such as typing if he finds something that draws his interest.
Okay, a lot of people are going to get on here and talk about their favorite computer, or how to get your kid involved in programming and hacking, etc. But let's be honest: Most kids at that age play games with a computer. Until they're a teenager, there's no strong need for privacy, so I'd say just get something like a mac mini or an HTPC, set it up in the livingroom, and then give the kid a wireless keyboard and mouse and hook it up to the TV. Kids will spill juice, food, and generally destroy anything you give them.
A laptop or tablet is straight out unless they're waterproof and can survive being run over by a car. or worse. Get one of those fold-up keyboards... don't spend much money on it either way, it'll die. And you might want to buy a spare. (-_-) For kids "survivability" is far more important of an attribute than tech specs or even operating system.
#fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
I've got my 7-year-old on a Nexus 7 ($250) paired with a Logitech Tablet Keyboard for Android ($50 - with a case that doubles as a stand for the tablet). So the total is the $300 you want to spend. No exposure to parts, but a complex interface to master - and with the keyboard he feels it's "like a real computer."
"with their freedom lost all virtue lose" - Milton
If it's something that your child should be able to carry around, have a few hours of battery life, and do basic computer/web browsing on, I'd recommend one of the cheapo Android Laptops off dealextreme (They're all inferior specs, even compared to a tablet, but they'd got a compact keyboard, removable battery, and with some finagling multiple internal usb device upgrades. If you mostly want it as something to learn with/on and not have to worry if they break it, this would be my recommendation.
Now going off the second bit: You want your child to LEARN how a computer works (I assume you mean in the 'take it apart/put it back together' manner, otherwise you probably want some kind of devkit setup), then my recommendation is an old ISA/PCI system, preferably with a pile of various I/O cards (Videocards, Sound Cards, maybe a modem or two, hard disk cards, etc.) If you pick a system with PCI support, definitely find and purchase a SIL3114 based SATA card. They may have drivers for win9x and DOS, but regardless they're bootable on some pretty flaky older BIOs, unlike say VIA based cards.) The benefit with the latter approach, especially with a bunch of ISA cards is that your child can learn both the newer 'plug and play' style of upgrading, as well as the old 'manually set' interrupt switches, which while unnecessary for the majority (all?) of modern computers, will still have benefits if they decide to dabble in embedded systems or other 'legacy style' devices that may expect physical configuration to operate appropriately.
I'm sure there are many other possibilities but those are probably the top two. If you go for the android laptop option, you might also want to consider removing the wifi card on the off chance you're worried about them being able to access questionable content independently of you. (It still has a ethernet port however, so you'd want router-level filtering on your end, and hope little timmy's parents down the street have done the same... Pretty unlikely however.)
Pick one: a PC or a circular slide rule...
Seriously, a 7-year-old has too much to learn about almost everything. He is better off with his own account on a shared PC (e.g. a family PC, where our kids started), where he can dabble and can sometimes look over an adult's shoulder. Give him his own PC, and he's likely to still want to use the same one as dad or mom.
Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. - Voltaire
And it has a proper CLI with bash - simple stuff like cd for starters for example
Not only that, you could also install a flavour of Linux on a different partition as well for a well rounded introduction
Seriously, you think an iPad is a "magic object" and a CPU chip isn't?
There's no such thing, and never has been. Unless you're talking a behemoth like a difference engine, or a toy like one of the Lego/Tinkertoy computers... how an electronic computer works isn't visible without at *least* some form of multimeter or oscilloscope... or for a computer of any complexity (read: any consumer computer past the mid/late 80's) a fairly sophisticated analyzer.
This is about as muddled and confusing a statement as I've ever read in an Ask Slashdot - which is an achievement worthy of note. You don't even know what you want to teach him, beyond conforming to some dogma ("no magic box") and ideals ("survive the zombie apocalypse") you've picked up along the line and now repeat as though they were sensible and logical observations of reality. You're the Slashdot version of a cargo cultist.
You can't possibly have kids. No sane parent would/should give a 7 year old as something as breakable and valuable as a multi-hundred dollar laptop
"When life gives you lemons, don't make lemonade. Make life take the lemons back!" -- Cave Johnson
Is buy parts for a PC off of some website, get a case with a clear side. Build it with him, teach him the importance of discharging static etc. Let him put the pieces together, tell him what each piece does.
You should be able to get parts for a standard PC relatively inexpensively.
Load the operating system with him, and explain what it does.
This is essentially how I got my start, I was about 9 years old I believe, it was an awesome experience! My Dad bought the parts from a magazine, we waiting the grueling week for it to come in. He watched over my shoulder as I assembled it, making sure I didn't do anything wrong. My Dad is awesome for many reasons and this is one of them.
I applaud your effort to get your son involved at an early age, and with the right mindset!
I'd say a netbook would be perfect for him. Inexpensive, small keyboard, some are still powerful enough to run IDEs.
I had an Asus 1000HA for a couple years, the whole bottom opened up to upgrade components. However, I believe most current designs aren't as tinkerer friendly as older ones.
My blood hurts...
It could be worse. He turn into a mindless commentard like you
Get him a Raspberry Pi and don't even show him how to turn it on. Just tell him that awesome secrets lie within and even you don't know how to pull them out. Let his imagination run and he will figure it all out, hopefully. I gave one to my nephew and he hasn't left it for a month.
My neighbor's kids (ages 4,8,12) all have the same issue with their mom's Kindle Fire ... as well as their mom's iPod Touch. And all but the 4 year old have their own dedicated PCs. And they have a Wii and other gaming systems, as well ... but it's the Kindle Fire the older two argue about, and they've all been known to try to walk off with it when no one's looking.
(the one down side -- after various children have managed to buy new apps on it, passwords were set up on it ... yet, it seems that there's some key combination that a 4 year old can do when trying to unlock it on her own that will blank the device)
So there's no real reason to shell out $400 (cheapest iPad pricing), when you'll also have to consider the case (to shock proof it from tiny hands dropping it) any apps, etc.
Even with getting things into the $300 budget (the retina starts at $500), I still wouldn't do it, as it fails the other goal of not treating it as a magic box.
Build it, and they will come^Hplain.
Just buy parts and build a PC together. With $300 you should manage to get new core components and used non-essentials (screen, box, mouse, keyboard, etc). I'm not sure about the shipping, though... ;-)
It is quite important while instilling computer literacy is that there is no magic involved, that a PC contsists of parts which can be replaced. Error fixing comes down to narrowing down to the right parts. Same with software, it's just that the APIs are way less intutitive.
This article should be inspirational:
http://changelog.complete.org/archives/7562-i-introduced-my-5-year-old-and-2-year-old-to-startx-and-xmonad-theyre-delighted
The thing is kids can get stuff pretty quick if you don't put the fear of knowledge in them.
"Enjoy what you're doing! If it becomes drudgery, you're doing it wrong!" - Jim Butterfield
Some "Jock" fathers do exactly the same thing, by insisting their kids participate in the same sports they did in their youth. If the kid actually shows genuine interest, then fine, go right ahead - but don't force your kid into some interest just because it was what you were into. As a parent, you have a chance to encourage your child to find out what he's interested in. And guess what, if it turns out he'd rather be outside playing with friends, in the kitchen cooking or building model airplanes, rather than futzing around with an old pile of comp-u-junk, you'd be a great parent to encourage him!
I'm old enough to have fond memories of building my own PCs in my teenage years, but I personally see nothing wrong with giving your kid a modern iOS or Android tablet and letting them just enjoy it without it having to be a learning experience. You only get to be a kid once.
---
DRM is like antifreeze, to the MPAA/RIAA it's sweet, to the consumers it's poison.
Get him a programmable robot. The act of learning how a computer "thinks" is the best takeaway from an early computer experience, and even involves some programming, even if not in a language he'd ever use again. Plus, you get the reward of seeing it actually do something. Otherwise, get him a WoW account and treat the PC as a gaming console for all he'll learn from a computer.
So many here have the nostalgia of their first PC. Mine required that I program just about anything I wanted to do with them. I'd buy the magazines with fold-out programs in them, and spend hours typing and saving it to an audio tape. Then load it up later and play. Choplifter was the only game that I had to play that wasn't programmed by me.
Playing with the computer should require learning about the computer. The closest I've seen are the programmmable assembly-required robot kits where you can build what you want, then program it how you want. For the home PC, they made it so easy now, it's like learning about microwave communications by heating coffee in a microwave oven.
Learn to love Alaska
If you want portable, I'd say get a netbook. Even though they get fewer and fewer, there are still some around. You'll have to find one on sale if you want to break $300 though. I'd also recommend installing Linux if you don't want it infested with all sorts of nasty stuff within weeks.
If it doesn't have to be portable, build one. Easily done for <$300 and your kid will learn a lot. And if he built it he'll treat it with more respect.
It's trivial (there are many instruction videos on YouTube) and for parts lists you can start at http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2012/04/ars-bargain-box/.
thegodmovie.com - watch it
Arduino
Linux (mint?) on a cheap PC.
Easy to use but if he gets into computing he can do everything on it (it is all open and on *nix it's text files all the way down).
J.
Buy a $300 computer. Seperate out the parts before giving it to your son and after documenting their proper placement. Take pictures of the graphics card, keyboard, mouse, memory, hard drive, sound card, optical disc drive and monitor. Any and all parts plugs etc.Now you can give your son the experience of building his own computer. I did this with my grandchildren and they loved it. I knew what I was doing (mostly) and practiced before the actual task of puting pieces together in front of an audience. Load a simple game when done and play. They loved every minute.
At 7, get him a set of throw away clothes and tell him to go out side and explore and don't get angry when he comes home filthy.
Wash, rinse and repeat...
Plenty of time for computers later.
Undetectable Steganography? Yep, there's an app fo
You got to start with the basics.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CvsnftXXKdw
"The likes of Facebook and WhatsApp are free to those whose privacy is of zero value."
It's quite simple:
1. Buy new parts to build yourself a new machine.
2. Have your child help you assemble said machine
3. Repurpose the old machine for the child.
Build it, and they will come^Hplain.
Or a better idea..
For $300 you buy a shitload of books, especially if you go to the used book store.
If you need web hosting, you could do worse than here
7 year old? Face it, no matter what computer you buy him, what he'll use it for is to play games. So you may as well buy him one that doesn't make him look like a freak to his peers. Let's be honest here: 600 bucks will not buy you a great gaming rig, but it would buy a PS3, and amongst his peers that's way cooler than the computer you got him that makes games look like a slideshow. Which in turn ensures that your kid will view the computer with contempt.
I'm dead serious here. If you want your kid to get interested in computers, building them, programming them, find out what makes them tick, wait for him to come to you. Dumping something on him that is way off his hopes and expectations will probably just give him a very expensive dust collector.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
... is the answer.
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You can't really open it up though. Try of most laptops. A used Mac Pro OTOH would work just fine. Very organized inside. Everything comes apart neatly and you can really get a good look at the internals. Also pretty cheap if you go do a 4 yr model quad core or the like. You can even upgrade parts for not too much though less options than a Non-Apple PC.
A fool throws a stone into a well and a thousand sages can not remove it.
Here is an alternative idea: a Silicon Valley school without technology
Step 2: profit!
if you really want to give him a 'real' computer, how about an old eeepc 701? It's cheap, won't break easily, the size and the weight are right for a 7-year old and you can simply install some educational Linux distro to get him started.
Look back over some previous slashdot submissions on Lego. While most computerized toys are rubbish, Lego have done a great job in putting a programmable element to something that's already great (and you should already know if your kid is into that kind of thing).
I'm sure someone else already said this, but I didn't the comments.
Why would you get a 7 year old a computer?
When he turns 16 are you going to buy him a car so he can learn to drive it?
Just have him use your desktop to play games or whatever.
Either way you're the one who is going to have to administer the thing.
Cheap, mass-produced products tend to be little sealed boxes that don't tell you much about guts. Once upon a time you could have a lot of fun fiddling with electronic logic, but now products are all based on little prepackaged ICs containing millions of circuits that are light years ahead of anything you can do by hand. So forget about a system that "exposes the guts".
I think the specific computer you want matters a lot less than the software you put on it. Nowadays, software represents the "guts" you want your kid to learn about. That suggests that maybe you should just get him a cheap Linux laptop, show him how to open a terminal window, give him a book on shell programming, and stand back. Kids are really good at making the most of that scenario.
OK, maybe shell programming is not something that will get the attention of a 7-year-old. There are a ton of child-specific programming platforms that might be the ticket. Your judgement as to which one would best suit your son is certainly better than anybody else's.
The Thomas Friedman column you link talks about an Estonian program for grade-schoolers that sounds kind of cool. But you seem to come away from it with the notion that you owe it to your kid to fill his head with technical skills so he'll be a competitive when he enters the job market. IMHO, that's a pretty good way to destroy a child's love of a topic. (I'm thinking of the unpleasant music lessons I had with my own father; my love of music will never be what it might have been.) You should focus instead on something Friedman says further down.
There is a quote attributed to the futurist Alvin Toffler that captures this new reality: In the future “illiteracy will not be defined by those who cannot read and write, but by those who cannot learn and relearn.” Any form of standing still is deadly.
That suggests that the imperative is not to learn a specific set of skills, but to learn to learn.
whatever you do however you do it make sure that you have an IMAGE backup of the computer (and keep it updated)
you can even make this edutainment by using a Red Blue Yellow and Green set of backup drives.
Also whatever browser you use INSTALL AD-BLOCK (and think hard about parental control software).
Any person using FTFY or editing my postings agrees to a US$50.00 charge
I was in a similar situation and I bought my kid a netbook at Target for something like $230. He takes it to school and if he loses it, I won't kill him. Added NetNanny and that keeps him away from most of the nasty stuff on the 'Net. It's not fast, it's not open source, but it works reasonably well. He can surf, email, and make documents for homework and it fits in his little back pack. It's held up for two years so far. No complaints here.
A normal computer, but he always uses it with you being there with him to use it. You're a parent; that's a parent's job. Don't leave him alone with the computer.
And that assumes there's something meaningful he could do with a computer, which I doubt. His reading level probably isn't enough for the Internet or even Facebook and most sites don't want anyone under 13 anyway), and he's probably not going to have to do his homework on a word processor. Once he knows how to use a mouse and put a disk in a drive, all he's really going to need it for are games. Get him a Wii.
It is specifically designed for children, it is very tough, has better wifi (internet connectivity) than most expensive laptops, and has wonderful bang for the buck.
Buy one in great condition on ebay for $200 or less.
Having said all that: it will eventually need to be replaced. Your child isn't going to get through college with it. Or probably even high school.
Start with a 386 and Debian with CLI only.
MY OTHER COMMENTS
Rather than relying on the 80's BASIC experience, you can actually do better for your kid by buying the SparkFun Inventor's Kit, and helping him through every step of the tutorial. $100.
https://www.sparkfun.com/products/11022
To program the microcontroller, you can use a cheap, standard netbook, which will also help the kid in school.
I am in the same boat as my oldest is also 7. Now I am considered quitely technically savvy and I didn't actually start doing anything significant with computers until I was 13. As parent I draw on my experience to see what would be appropriate when. Right now I am teaching my kid to be independent and to find her own solutions to problems.
In case you haven't guessed yet, my kid does not have her own computer. She (and rightfully so) sees a computer, a tablet, etc as a source of entertainment at this stage. At this age she speaks two languages, makes rational arguments, rides multiple blocks on her bike, can do math in her head, plays piano, and dances. Giving her a computer at this stage would just limit her horizons.
...something of a subnote (not so small as a netbook, 10-12" panel is fine, 14 at a push). My kids loved K12LTSP/Fedora as a platform, it's cram packed with educational software, games and your usual desktop environment stuff; what it'll run on these days is pretty much what other people are binning because they can't get Vista running on it!
Operation Guillotine is in effect.
You can pick up PlayBook tablets now for $130. It's really easy to develop for with the WebWorks SDK and will be upgraded to BlackBerry 10 next year.
Why don't you expose him to some programs like 4H, or boy scouts, or something that can give him experience in computers and other areas? A child doesn't have a developed enough creative mind to be "curious" about computers until around say ... 4th grade.
They need to have the patience and mental fortitude to be able to handle disappointment and procedural thinking.
Can your son already bake a cake? Or rather, does he have the patience to walk through the entire process of baking a cake with you?
Reading the recipe, measuring, setitng the over, getting out the pans, crackign the egs... the whole bit.
If he can't make it through that, there's no way in hell he'll have the emotional maturity to make it through a hobby computer.
Go for a used desktop computer with a used a dual core CPU that is fast enough for HD content.
At least 2 GB memory - 4 GB wont hurt. Kids lack patience so put some speed where it is needed.
Try to avoid name brand refurbished computers - They got plenty of those at Wal-Mart.
They might have considerable mileage running day and night in a company
and the power supply might be expensive to replace.
Win XP wont do in the hands of a child - Prepare for reinstalling often.
If it cant run Linux - Shun it even if you will never run Linux - It usually has cheap hardware that is best avoided.
A standard (m)ATX desktop computer can be repaired at low cost.
You can find spare parts on Ebay anytime.
A used 19" flat screen or better if you can afford it. Heck I've seen them new for way less than USD 100.
A few dead pixel off center wont hurt if you need to skimp.
Children might enjoy watching films. Put in a DVD drive
A laptop might prove to be costly in the hands of a child.
They lug it around and make damages - repairs are expensive if possible at all.
Standard keyboard (used Key-Tronic) and cheap optical mouse.
No AAA battery needed on late Saturday night.(sister stole them)
Kids grow up fast.
If the computer can run Linux you might as well just save time and put in :-)
Edubuntu or Skolelinux - They are made for children.
And kids use Linux with ease - They just use it - They don't know better
Greetings
Jim Oksvold
You should start with building a desktop together..that way he will learn what each of the componets are used for and provide a fundamental base that he can build upon. Once he grasps the hardware then the sky is the limit and he can go to the software side which is a whole lot more complicated. Without the understanding of the hardware side he will end up a databasemonkey or worse... a MCSE
The most brilliant computer scientists lived in an era without computers and the majority of us grew up without them in our homes but we still were drawn to it in some way. I'm sure your kid is going to get enough exposure to this technology without you cramming it down his throat just because you have a fascination with them. Maybe he won't like computers and want to be an artist or an athlete where he'll have no use for them.
Get him a programmable Lego kit that will actually provide some feedback for him that a 7 yr-old would like. It's robot, he can control it, it has a language-like LISP (last time I checked) compiler that allows him to issue commands and construct sets of instructinons that will illicit specific behavior for which he's responsible.
And it's limitation is its strength. You're handing him a complex, task specific apparatus that's fun and offers little built in avenues for distraction. It requires some degree of focus, unlike a windows, internet connected game box.
The important step I found with my children was to recognise that they can control what a machine does, and indeed design a machine themselves. I think this is more fundamental than any specific technology.
Don't buy a computer yet. I'm sure you can find a used one, or let him access the one you already have. Get the free software Scratch, which is a programming language. You can make animals talk, make cars drive in to walls, or calculate sums, all by dragging shapes around.
Also try some web sites which offer two special things: big data, and communications. Think of a question and search the web to find the answer. Look at your neighbourhood in Google Maps. Send an email to your relatives and get a reply. (some privacy issues begin to arise with Internet communications)
For a bit of hardware fun, get a Velleman kit and solder the components together. And back that up with the creativity of making just anything new in Lego. That can lead to other projects, or assembling a computer from components.
I'm cautious, at that age, about robot kits that promise too much. They're either not customisable in which case you're not learning, or too flexible, in which case they're too hard for the age group. Which is why I'd start with software. But I'm also cautious about "educational software" which will only confirm the attitude that he is a consumer and can only answer A, B, C or D.
An old Mac SE or SE/30 with a standard set of software (Word 5.1, MacDraw II, HyperCard) provides the basic skills, in an obscenely uncluttered environment, plus an object oriented programming system.
I have a similar setup in my shed, that I still use.
~Donald / Just RTFM
Buy him a new bike.
Achille Talon
Hop!
See what she uses at school (assuming she's not home schooled), and use that as a baseline. My kids use Windows 7 at home, and my youngest uses a Mac at school (K-5 in my district use Macs, 6-12 use PCs).
As for capabilities, any 'modern' computer would be fine, and I'd suggest desktop to laptop, but that's something for you to decide.
If you are gonna take money out of your pocket, I'd suggest sticking with machines with at least a Core Duo processor (Mac or PC), and load it up with cheap RAM (4 gigs) and you should be fine.
An older Mac Mini with a Core2 Duo and 4 gigs of RAM would be reasonable for either OS.
Ken
While it was the "family" computer, it was mostly loaded up with educational software for me. So effectively it was mine. And I could parrot a few bits of BASIC I was taught and adapt them slightly to amuse my friends. (mostly a string of PRINT, INPUT and IF GOTO operations). So I would construct simple choose-your-adventure type stories on it, where most wrong choices ended up in an untimely demise. (like "green guts", and the screen turns green)
When I got a little older (5 or 6) I was programming the thing often enough to crack up the manuals for TI Extended BASIC and start reading them. For sprites, joystick, DATA/READ, sound effects, among other things. While I wish I would have had a C64 instead of a TI99/4a, I am happy that I had a computer and dot-matrix printer growing up. (the printer came with a book on programming it, so I would sometimes send commands to it to draw little graphics or use alternate fonts)
7 years old is not necessarily too young. But I think a bigger component is if the child has a real interest in mucking around with computers. Likely the child doesn't even know what they like to do. I would categorize buying a youngster their own computer to buying them a guitar. They may take to it like a duck to water, but it also might sit on a shelf and end up at your garage sale 10 years from now.
I'll share some advice, despite not having any children of my own. I'd recommend that you be supportive of a child's interest, and provide them resources to explore multiple potential interests. And don't be surprised if the child's interest doesn't match your own. Even though you like computers, you might be raising a chemist or musician or athlete.
“Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
Does your son really want a computer or do you just want to drop him one from your helicopter? Seriously Just because you live on the wrong side of the digital divide doesn't mean your son will in spite of your efforts. He will or won't get interested of his own volition.
The longer you keep you kid off computers the better. Computers are highly addictive and you won't have the will power to limit it's use in any effective way. You've got important stuff to do, kid is being a pest, it's just too easy to bring up a game and put him in front of it. Let the kid learn about the real world, enjoy physical activity and interact with people fact to face.
Okay, I've been through this. I first put my kids on my lap when they were 4, and they began to bang around on my Thinkpad.
But first, here's why a kid needs a real computer (as opposed to a tablet): He or she is going to need to learn to touch-type. By the time he/she is 9, they're going to be asking for PowerPoint presentations in school. By the time they're 10, they're going to be expected to look things up on the web, they're going to learn that Wikipedia isn't a valid source (you can use it as a starting point, but you need to check everything), and they're going to have either played (and already grown out of) Webkins and Club Penguin, and have a dozen friends on Minecraft. By the time they are 10, they will also have the "be careful online" warnings drilled into them, both at school, and (probably) at home.
So here's my advice: If you don't have an old computer to hand down (in my case, one of my kids got an old Thinkpad), then go for the cheapest new hp/dell/lenovo notebook you can find. Or a used Apple. I don't want to get into the whole Mac vs PC thing here. I'm PC, but the schools are mainly Mac. The problem for me was the cost difference, and my own ability to provide tech support. My kids are now PC, but have no problem with Macs at school.
Two other thoughts here: 1) The reason I recommend a notebook is because you want to be able to move it around the house. I'd rather have the kids playing Mincraft in the kitchen (where I can sort of monitor it), than up in their rooms -- and ditto for making sure they're doing their homework, as opposed to looking up the prices for lego and skylanders on ebay. (Trust me, your kids will start doing this.)
The other caveat here (2) is that I'd recommend against a netbook. I bought one of my kids an Acer Aspire One (for under $300), and it was too slow -- but more importantly, the graphics card wouldn't support even the most rudimentary on-line game. So keep an eye on the graphics chips. Check and see whether it will support Minecraft. (I know, I know. We all say we're not going to let our kids spend hours on games, but the reality is that it's a peer pressure thing. When all the boys - or girls - are playing these things, you're eventually going to have to give in.)
So, as one who's been through this, and considered all the options, my advice is simple: 1) A hand-me-down computer. 2) A bare bones notebook, with word processing, web, PowerPoint) and minimal game capabilities, 3) avoid netbooks (for the graphics) and the tablet options, (as theses aren't really great for homework. 4) Keep in mind that the thing every kid needs to learn is touch-typing, followed by on-line research and (eventually) illustrated reports. It's the world we live in.
I didn't even get my first computer until I was 12. Like someone else already said, an account on a family machine is what's best at the moment.
...to a car engine in the computer world.
Even the home-brew Newegg builds are just LEGOs; computers themselves aren't the tactice source of tinkering they used to be...
My friend bought his son LEGO mindstorms. You get the added advantage of "car engine" type tinkering, plus computer programming, plus embedded systems, plus robotics, and it actually makes something physical that can be explored with all the senses, not just reading lines of code in a cramped position in front of a monitory...
IMHO, this is much more exploratory than a big mac/windows/linux box and a compiler.
But I don't know what a 7 year old is like, maybe that's too young for mindstorms?
https://www.accountkiller.com/removal-requested
IBM XT , 640KB Ram, 10MB hard drive, 5 1/4" floppy, DOS 6, Wordperfect DOS 5.1
I have Wordperfect install disks of that vintage at my office come to think of it...
My grandchildren are in the target age group, both their fathers are developers, I am a software architect who was once a hardware designer - I mean as in industrial and military computers built from components up - and my advice is this. Spend the $300 on a ukelele, a kayak, or whatever looks like floating his or her boat, literally or metaphorically. Something practical that you can do or learn together. Computers are what most people do when they are not in a position to do something more interesting, and children deserve something more interesting. When peer pressure demands electronic gadgets, get the right one. No good buying Android if all the class communicate with BBM, or buying BB if that will result in being laughed at.
From scarped cliff or quarried stone she cries "A thousand types are gone, I care for nothing, no not one."
1. A 'real' computer - or just let him use the family PC - install Minecraft. Play with him and encourage him to build things with redstone. 2. Lego Mindstorms - build robots with him, discuss cool things they could (reasonably) do, sit down with him and write the code. 3. Get familiar with the basic logic gates and make a few puzzles. Build an adder, hook it to some switches and LCDs. Make a project out of it. 4. A good algebra book. 5. A TI-83/86/whatever. I wouldn't go with the NSpire, though. He'll be able to make programs that scroll "BUTTS" - he'll love it. That's my advice.
There will be an app for that. The ad-supported version will just slow them down, the pro version will use the camera LED to blow their heads off.
From scarped cliff or quarried stone she cries "A thousand types are gone, I care for nothing, no not one."
They don't need their own computer yet. Probably at 12 years old, but no sooner. They need to learn the fundamentals of what they are doing before they abstract it away with a computer.
I myself was slapped in front of a computer at the age of 5. I'm now sitting here on a sunday night, posting on Slashdot rather than doing something useful. Do you want that to be your kids?
Best wishes for your family, but the boy is seven years old. Let him have a childhood.
"...and hopefully one wherein the guts are a bit exposed so that he can learn how a computer works "
Again, he's seven. C'mon, dad, lighten up. The 'guts' of a computer challenge the brains of intelligent people with college degrees. Ever try to explain to an elementary school teacher how a computer works? How to use electrical switches to represent numbers, or how to use numbers to make colors on a video screen? They have college degrees and still have great difficulty with 'simple' computer concepts. Again, your child's seven years old, so lighten up.
"...still keep him interested and without leaving him behind in school...."
Young children have no reason to be interested in computers. So if he appears to be not interested, lighten up, he's seven. Go the the zoo, to the park, or to the library.
With his dad pushing advanced computer technology into his child-like head, there's no way that anything going to be leaving him behind in school.
Again, children are not miniature supermen, they're children. Lighten up dad.
The Classmate PC that Intel makes is a great machine for kids. It's pretty durable and some of the models have a touchscreen. I would also recommend installing Kiddix on it, which is hands down the best kids OS on the market, and it's Linux at it's core which is even better.
I am not sure if building a PC from parts is really an important part of the experience. I suggest getting any decent computer and installing Linux. Ubuntu or Mint would be good choices.
Why Linux? He can learn how to find new things, install them, and try them out. The package management system on Linux is so much better than the mess on Windows, and there is a ton of cool stuff that is free.
If you can, have him learn a good scripting language. I recommend Python, because even if he doesn't become a software developer he can use Python (for math, astronomy, statistics, web development, mass-converting his media collection to a new file format, etc.).
lf(1): it's like ls(1) but sorts filenames by extension, tersely
This guy has some interesting blog posts about introducing the shell and linux to his kids: http://changelog.complete.org/archives/category/technology/children-computing
My spirit takes a journey through my mind...
No paranoid parent would/should give a 7 year old as something as breakable and valuable as a multi-hundred dollar laptop
FTFY. Seriously. Just explain to them that the device is fragile, and that NO fighting for it will be tolerated.
Kids, especially at age 4+, are by no means dumb or clumsy; if you tell them beforehand that they need to pay attention that it never drops on the floor, and show that you trust them, they'll pay attention and do their very best to deserve that trust -- to make daddy proud.
Sure, accidents can happen. But do you keep them in a sterile environment so they don't catch a cold?
(Fwiw, I've a tablet that got its first bumps and scratches due to a friend's 13-year old daughter. The fucking brat needed the entire dining room table room to do her homework, so she wiped everything on it to the floor: phone, tablet, laptop, you name it. At least three dozen 4-8 year olds and two cats had played with the tablet unsupervised prior to that event; it had no scratches.)
>> I'm looking for a computer that will teach him basic computer literacy
Computer can't do that. Only a human can.
Short answer: buy a crappy used computer which you two can talk about as you figure it out.
Most kids are curious, they're also influenced by your passions. So if you're into hardware, your kid will be too. I can't help recommending, along with an interest in technology and programming, that you offer opportunities to explore nature, art, and people. In that vein:
How about taking him to a yard sale. Bargain with the seller for a used desktop, they often go for around $50-$100 on CraigsList. Talk to your child about how the price of things is determined by the buy and seller agreeing, how to re-use something useless to someone else. Take the computer home, tear it apart, blow the dust off, explain what the pieces do and how they go together. Plug it in and watch how it sits there doing nothing, until you turn it on, explain a wee bit about electricity. Watch the fan spin while the computer does slightly more than nothing until you install programs (operating system and applications). I don't think you want to risk boredom by compiling from scratch, so install some fancy open source system, perhaps Edubuntu. Look at science software, graphics programs, play a few games. Install a kid-oriented programming language or several, see if there's any interest.
Watch what really fires the kid up, and indulge. One thing will (eventually) lead to another. Maybe he wants to draw, color, catapult rocks; but as you already know, frequently he'll be watching you to see what you react to, just as you're doing with him. Building things, fixing them, making them do new stuff, being frustrated by what can't be done (yet) when you don't know the reasons, the rules, the logic and physics. Talk about how people like you and him wrote all those lines of code if you two start writing some yourselves. Eventually a better part (e.g. memory, video card) or even computer might be needed, which is a chance to discuss why you might buy cheap and used at first, and better later if/when it's needed. Sell or give the old one to a friend, so your kid can be the helpful expert. What happens if you just throw something away, how is selling a used but whole thing different than recycling pieces?
7 year old's computer? Are you kidding me? Their own, or one for the family that they will use to access school work and maybe read and write emails to family? As long as you don't exclude normal education items (Lego's, Tinker Toys, etc...) then just something small.
If it's more "Family" HP generally has laptops on sale this time of year really really cheap. While I myself prefer Linux, I'd actually recommend Windows since many schools require it for applications. Later, as everyone becomes more proficient with the PC, move to Linux.
The most difficult thing to do, is keep them from using the PC as their main form of entertainment. This becomes more difficult as you find it keeps them inside, safe, and out of your way. So for that reason, supervision should be required at all times. Learn with them, and limit your time. Since it can be very absorbing for you and them, use an egg timer and set it at 30-60 minutes max. Then get outside and play with them, or have them turn it off and cook dinner together.
Just my 2 cents.
-The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.
A used PC or two (possibly Free) is the most instructive for the inquisitive.
Perfect for a 7 year old. They can build stuff, its tactile, they get immediate feedback with the movement of their machine, they get to use their imagination.
The kind blank pages so he can write and draw and do whatever. You can get a pretty decent one with a hard case for about $20. Some prefer the flexible kind though. You will likely need to buy a replacement unfortunately, but even after several upgrades you will still be well within budget. You should consider a high quality stylus and also color add-ons.
My sons first computer was a pentium dual core laptop, and he got it when he was 2.
About six months ago, we built together an ivy bridge/z77 machine in an Antec Skeleton case. If you want visibility, thats a good way to go. Clear plastic case is good too, but they don't fit well and are a PITA to take apart and reassemble. Obviously I didn't let him socket the cpu, but his little fingers were pretty helpful in a lot of instances. Whole thing probably ran me about $450, and it'll be a good computer for him for 5+ years.
Your 7 year old needs the same computer everyone else has. Fisher Price it and you'll have a throwaway next year.
https://www.google.com/search?q=antec+skeleton&hl=en&safe=off&rlz=1C1CHFX_enUS477US477&prmd=imvns&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=Jg5NUKWeLZDbigK_soH4CA&sqi=2&ved=0CB0QsAQ&biw=1920&bih=955
one wherein the guts are a bit exposed so that he can learn how a computer works rather than just treating it like a magic object
The only people who say things like this are people who have no f*cking idea how a computer works. You know what you should be doing with your seven-year-old? Reading to him. Reading with him. Having him read to you. Kicking a ball around. Going to museums. Painting pictures. Doing home science kits. Making electric circuits. Listening to music. Playing music. Cooking. Swimming. Running. Making models.
A computer for a seven year old. Jesus.
Maybe it's a dumb idea but this seems like the perfect application for a PC kit that a parent and child could build together. The parent that missed the PC boom and the kid that is just getting old enough to start learning the ropes. A crate with motherboard, hard drive, power supply, DVD drive, chassis, RAM, monitor, mouse and keyboard with step by step instructions and maybe even a DVD to watch. Video upgrade could be added later on and the OS could be pre-loaded on the HDD already configured to work with the included hardware. Does anyone make something like this?
So for my sons 7th birthday I got him a laptop... it's a dell I rescued from the trash it's a p4 I would guess is about ten years old. It was free. I downloaded and installed fedora on it and that was free... then I went into yum the software manager and installed everything under games... also free... he loves it. So now my seven year old is well on his way to leaning Linux and computers and if he breaks it I am out nothing. Also if he smashes it to see in side or wants to open it up its all ok... if he breaks it i will not be replacing it too quickly so he can learn how and why to take care of his stuff with out getting me upset. (Better his laptop than mine.) So I would suggest you keep the 300 for other goodies for him. If you can't find one headed for the trash can hit the local pawn shop or call the locally owned and operated computer stores around you... they may have one they would even be willing to install fedora on for you for less than $200 maybe even half that.
I think you have two different requirements. You want your son to learn how to use a computer and you want your son to learn how computers work. I recommend waiting until your son is interested in computers before buying him his own computer. You will know it's time to buy your son his own computer when you have to kick him off your computer.
Your son can use any computer or any tablet to learn how to use a computer. My son used my hand me down desktop and laptop computers until I bought him a new MacBook when he was a junior in high school. You should be able to find a free desktop, laptop or tablet if you talk to your friends and family. All you need to do is find someone who has upgraded to a new computer and is looking for someone to adopt the old computer. It's always a good idea to talk to your son's school to see if they have any recommendations that will help you to make a decision.
Your son can learn about how computers work by learning about hardware and software. Any modern computer consists of a small number of modular components which means that there aren't many guts that can be exposed. You can always find an old computer on the curb, at the dump, or at a yard sale that you can take apart so that your son can learn about the different parts of a computer. You can find free computer programming languages for kids such as Scratch. If your son likes Lego he'll like Lego Mindstorms when he turns 10.
Another way for your son to learn about how computers work is to go to the library and check out a copy of Computer by DK publishing. ISBN 9780756682651. You should also check out Ziff Davis' How Computers Work. ISBN 9780789730336. You can also find a number of web sites that explain how computers work by searching for how computers work for kids or how computers work for children.
My family has a tradition of giving home made gift certificates instead of gifts when it wasn't clear exactly what the recipient wanted. If I wanted a bicycle my parents would give me a bicycle if they knew exactly which bicycle I wanted. If they didn't know which bicycle I wanted they would give me a certificate for a bicycle. I would then have to decide which type of bicycle I wanted and then work with my parents to find the bicycle that I wanted at a price that they could afford. This taught me to do my homework before making a major purchase. You might want to use this approach with your son to make sure that he receives a computer that he wants at a price that he can afford.
You mentioned that you don't know a lot about computers. This is the perfect opportunity for you and your son to learn more about computers together. I look forward to reading his first post on slashdot.
Will teach him the value of reading.
My ism, it's full of beliefs.
For gods sake people, obeseity is a problem already. Get the children playing games and learning social skills. A fit, healthy individual who is socially savvy is likely to be more successful than one of the I.T. crowd. Sure get them interested in tech and science as well as sports.
If you want something techie or science based then get your child a telescope. It has the advantage of the Wow factor, being hands-on and getting the children outdoor. The plus side is that you'll get some exercise and be bond with your child as you discover the universe. Just don't by a cheap telescope from Walmart, etc... You can get a really cool Galileo scope at http://www.astrosphere.org/astrogear/shop/buy2give/galileoscope-2/ for about $50. But for 500-1200 you can get a really nice Dobsonian, just don't start too big.
They made millions on Commodore-64's. Older stuff, such as vintage Apple II's, TRS-80's, Sinclair's or Acorns might also be available in running condition. Might even be able to get one for free out of someones attic or junk bin.
Computer programming literacy (in Basic) was at an all time high in the era of these machines.
My two kids (ages 3 and 5) have access to 6 computers in our household which are running various operating systems (Linux, FreeBSD, Windows, OS X) and yet they use iPads the most.
Do you want to raise mindless consumers or critical thinkers? If the former, an Apple iPad is the ticket to consumerism for the mindless. On the other hand, if you want your children to develop problem solving skills, analytical skills, and achieve a sense of accomplishment, I recommend buying a used Commodore VIC-20 or Commodore 64 8-bit computer along with some of the manuals and books available for those computers. I bought my first computer, a Commodore VIC-20, in 1982 and taught myself BASIC and shortly thereafter 6502 assembly language or more accurately 6502 machine code; it was a few years before an assembler/dissembler was available so I had to learn about PEEK and POKE and SYS from within a BASIC programme containing DATA and READ statements. I still have my original Commodore VIC-20 and a small collection of manuals and reference books. Being able to control the cassette tape drive motor to position it at the exact place on the tape where a specific programme resided was educational, interesting, and fun. You do not need to give your children a modern computer system - start at first principles and let them build from that foundation if they choose. If you can locate the Commodore VIC MODEM, your children could set-up a small bulletin board system (BBS). In my opinion, your children will get a greater sense of achievement from such a computer system because in essence they control almost every aspect of its behaviour plus they learn about microprocessors, memory resource management, efficient software implementation, problem solving and critical thinking while having fun.
I really miss the days when a computer booted into a shell rather than a GUI. Even launching an application required a modicum of knowledge. Granted, expecting a seven year old to learn shell commands, even something as simple as 'load "*",8,1', might be a bit of stretch. If Mom and Dad booted up Logo and let him draw some pictures algorithmically that would probably be better than simply setting him loose in a point-and-click world.
I had exactly the same dilemma with my then 7 years old daughter. In the end I bought new business class Dell 600m and loaded it with Linux - SuSE 10.x back them. While not cheap, that turned up to be the best spent money of my life. It inspired creativity with individuality in her. It prevented a lot of time waste related to M$ Win - be it constant problems and messing up with games and trashy apps. She never needed to pirate SW - thanks to GNU she has never needed. It has thought her being productive. We regularly re-installed together to newer versions and migrated her data - now she installs Linux on her own and can migrate, maintain and backup data. She is no computer wiz, but an independent and self sufficient user. Computers are second nature for her, values community and knows that people like here can achieves so much as well working fully features OS with apps. Understand certainly more than most of her peers. It lasted 5 years. The replacement was again Dell studio 15 - the worst spent money of my life on computers. Now she lives happily what seems to be good purchase choice with Thinkpad T430. .... Think ahead for him - some things are difficult to migrate to new HW or OS. Let him choose his own path rather than letting others (corporations) make choices for him. He will grow with computer as second nature.
So my advise - get him good quality medium size laptop - something mechanically solid. Put any good Linux distribution on it, so he can learn independence and discovering things on his own. Install Linux and migrate data with him regularly - emails, chats, documents,
For younger kids, it's not being dumb or clumsy that wears things down, it's aggressive wear and tear. A 6 year old with a laptop is going to use it *anywhere* (on the floor, on their top bunk, outside) and bring it *everywhere*, especially if it's one of their favorite things. I'm not necessarily arguing against an older nice laptop, but as a parent, you can generally assume your kid is going to wear down his or her electronics faster than an adult, who laptops are actually designed for.
LegendMUD
Raspberry Pi with a cheap monitor, keyboard and mouse hooked up seems perfect to me . . .
Send the kid out to play. Let it come home, covered in mud. Give him a bicycle, a bat, anything which will cause some exercise. For nerds: Send him to the blue room.
I am a good software developer and engineer, and I started with 14. Still I missed the thing with the girls, because of the little bleepy machine. But at least I know that there is an outside, where you can build things, run around and play out fantasies.
The is no such thing as a computer for a 7 year old.
No need to spend a lot of money. Buy an HP XW4600 workstation on ebay ($200), install Ubuntu 12.4 LTS, and then let the 7-year old teach you and your wife how to use it too ;-)
You should buy a book, about child development so you stop thinking about buying a computer for a kid. If your target is computer literacy, help him to develop a critical mind. That helps. Fiddling around with a computer doesn't. Help him to understand set theory in terms of generalization/specialization, sub sets etc. You may find them in any restaurant menu. However, do not force anything on him, as he will hate it afterwards. Therefore buy that book about child development and education.
One advice is: Let him play outside. Let him talk to other kids/people, that will help him more than sitting in front of a computer.
...install windows (since thats what he will most likely be forced to use in school, and its still good to know anyway) and linux (educational value, plus teaching him/her that there are in fact other OSes than windows). Put some games and a simple programming language on it (python would probably be a good one for a kid). The kid will probably get interested in programming after a while (if you know/decide to learn the particular language, you might make some simple games for him/her to show some of the cool results). Since you also wanted the child to have a better understanding of how the hardware works also, maybe get a desktop rather than a laptop, since there's more insides to see, and open it up sometime and explain what all the parts do (and while your in there, show how to upgrade one of the components (add some more RAM or something)).
I took my old PC, wiped it clean and installed Windows XP on it. Avast anti virus. Ghosted the main drive to the second drive. Then unplugged the second drive.
Then turned him loose.
His desktop is littered with icons he made from testing the ideas of clicking and dragging. He somehow switched it to the High Contrast scheme. His browser has about a dozen toolbars. Which I think is interesting - it must be awfully easy to wind up with those. Don't hate your parents for installing them. It appears to happen almost by itself. On the plus side one of them plays Sonic the Hedgehog and he really likes that. A couple of old XP games, like Catz. He loves that.
He just clicks around and has fun. Supervised, of course. He's managed to do a fairly amazing number of things on his own. Watches youtube videos, has a few radio channels he found and likes, and so on.
If things get bad I'll restore the ghost image but for now he's having a blast.
Weaselmancer
rediculous.
I remember building a heathkit board that used huge chips to make a christmas tree light up.
Poke...Peek...
The parent has a point, start with a basic electronics kit and teach him about LOGIC...
Computers are simple if you learn from the ground up.
errr....umm...*whooosh* *whoosh* Is this thing on ?
It's easy enough to open. Four screws on the bottom and all your standard stuff. Plus it's a good idea to run a system that's freedom friendly. You'll be able to show your son the inhereds both component wise and progeammatically.
I think absolutely everything depends on the child. That should be the focus. At age seven , his personality is taking on a definite form that will likely carry with him all his life, shaping his career and his choice of social experiences. The wisest and most generous gift you can offer as a parent is to encourage him in his exploration of the world through his natural aptitudes and interests - and of course in the discipline that helps to realize them. As career advice, Joseph Campbell famously said "follow your bliss." At age 56 and looking back on a life well lived, I think that advice applies here as well.
A general-purpose programmable computer is a pretty amazing thing. If he's the kind of child who wants to get inside things and figure out how they work, nothing less than Linux will do. If he's a builder and fascinated with tools, then upgradeable hardware will be much more rewarding than some kind of laptop. If he's highly social, then as a parent you may have to take a deep breath and buy something that will help to enhance his social status and, if he's lucky, teach him something about social responsibility - even if it's something that seems from an adult perspective to be somewhat vacuous. If he's heavily into reading, then consider a platform with superior access to e-books. If he's particularly interested in design and aesthetics (I was at his age - I got myself an adult library card and brought home everything there was on architecture and industrial design) then it seems likely that Apple will be the way to go.
As technical matters go, it's not a desperately pivotal question. You're not going to make a terribly blunder by giving him the wrong device. That said, there's no guarantee that he will take to the device in the way you think he will. It's worth giving him something that has several obvious potentialities and then see which ones he pursues most diligently. I was going to say "eagerly" but in this case I think a slow burn is better than something whose interest fades after the novelty wears off.
You never know what's going to click. When I was his age, my dad gave me a small slide rule, probably acquired as conference swag or maybe at the checkout line at some campus bookstore. Whatever. I didn't care about fine precision. I just wanted to have it in my hands and play with it. We were learning multiplication and division at school, and I could understand how to use a slide rule for that. With a bit of a stretch, I could see how squares and square roots were a kind of special case. And just by using the slide rule, I got an intuitive feel for exponents and logarithms, though I don't think I could have put it into words that multiplication was merely adding exponents. I can tell you that slide rules taste like Legos. See, it's all valuable knowledge.
Parity: What to do when the weekend comes.
My advice: don't go anywhere near anything modern to start.
Our 14 year old became interested in technology when he was turning 7 (circa 2005ish). I'd taken him into the office and shown him what I was working on- and he became enamoured by the idea that computers weren't really magical black boxes- that someone actually had to program the thing to do something. The computer was simply doing what you or someone else had told it to do.
At the time, the thing I feared the most was raising him in such a way that he didn't know or understand the foundations and fundamentals of technology. I've dealt with plenty of people in my job who are literal "black box" users- they don't care how it works, or why it works, only that it does. They know nothing more then how to push a few buttons and wait a bit, if the result isn't satisfactory then they find someone to complain to. I did not want my son to be one of these people.
So we made an agreement- we'd buy him his first computer... If he agreed to follow in my footsteps, so to say.
His first computer was not a Pentium 4, or a Pentium 3, Pentium 2, or even a Pentium. I managed to track down an unopened Apple II from a coworker who had bought two and only ever used one- and that was his christmas present that year. The exact same computer that was my first system all those years ago.
Our agreement was simple- when he became proficient with one particular system (or there was nothing else to do, within reason), we'd take a look at everything he had learned and make the decision to upgrade him to another computer. This happened every ~4-5 months from 2005 up to 2012. And I have to say, these years were some of the most rewarding years I've ever experienced in my life- teaching my son how to not just "use" a computer, but how understand it and how to instruct it to do things with the bare metal. We were literally traveling through time- from 1977 up to 2012.
From the Apple II, we moved onto the Apple Macintosh (the original 128K model) paired with an Apple LISA for debugging purposes. A few months later I managed to dig up an original IBM 5150, and we worked on that for a while using CP/M and PC-DOS. Soon enough, we'd moved onto an Apple Macintosh II and a no-name 286 which ran MS-DOS and Windows 1.1. The Macintosh II eventually turned into a Quadra 700, the 286 was upgraded to a 386 (new motherboard plus a few other components- he did all this himself). I had a reasonably chronologically accurate collection of operating system floppies and CDs that we started to go through on the x86 systems, including Linux 1.0, the BSDs, eventually OS/2 Warp, Windows, and BeOS. Over time the 386 became a 486SX (later with a 487 coprocessor), was upgraded again with a Pentium Overdrive chip, before finally making the leap to the good old P54C. The Macintosh systems were mostly kept in line with the PC, chronologically, as we moved through operating systems at a reasonable pace.
I didn't really do much during all of this- of course I was there to supervise him, but more often then not I was simply getting the hardware and preparing the floppies/CDs for use as if they'd come from the factory (some operating systems are damned difficult to obtain today). My son was the one putting things together, upgrading hardware, dealing with the operating systems, learning the intricacies of each platform and writing his own programs. Our house was later affectionately dubbed the "computer museum" by the kids at school since we didn't dispose of the old systems- most of them were kept running and hooked up on a series of workbenches in the basement. You could walk to one side of the room and go back to 1977, or to the opposite end where the most recent system was running.
Eventually the P54C gave way to a Pentium II, a Pentium III, the P4, a Core Duo, and Core 2 Duo. We ran damned near every Macintosh architecture on the planet- from the Quadra 700 to the Beige G3, a variety of older PowerMac towers (the stylish ones with coloured plastic) and iMacs, a G4 Cube (my
The best laptop for a kid IMHO is the OLPC XO.(http://wiki.laptop.org/go/XO-1.75)
Although it is so much more powerful if all of his friends have them too... You could look at putting "Sugar" the interface on another netboot I guess (http://www.sugarlabs.org/).
I'm sorry to hear your experience with children has been so bad. Our kids are very careful with things. They all have and use computers from a year old. We teach them to use knifes too. Teach respect, responsibility and appreciation. They're the first three R's. With that foundation the next three R's come easily.
Actually, I've taken our Macintosh PowerBook and MacBook Pro laptops apart many times with our kids to upgrade memory, drives, replace broken screens and to fix various things. The machines are eminently easy to work on.
However, I'm not so sure that was what the original poster was looking for - internal hardware hacking - but rather a machine the child could use to learn typing, programming and computer skills such as spreadsheets, word processing and drawing/painting programs like Photoshop and Illustrator.
The advantage of a laptop is it has a built in battery backup, uses less power, takes up less space, is more rugged (designed for portability) and can be moved.
Another good thing to look for on eBay is a used digital camera to couple with the computer. Get one that does not have a retractable lens. I've found the Casio EX-V8 to be very good for kids because it has the automatic modes and manual modes when they're ready to learn about settings.
I don't even know if they still sell this stuff, but LEGO programmable robots seem like a much better starting point than pure software. It allows them to learn to think in terms of logical steps, but with a real world physical goal instead of an abstracted software goal.
Don't buy him a computer!!
When you are 7 years old you need to be outside experiencing the world and playing physical games with your friends, not sitting inside at a computer terminal.
Comes with software to restrict access to sites no child should see. It runs on Android, easy to use interface, but still needs a little bit of work on the software. Functional, cheaper than googles nexus tablet, nearly the same hardware with a 40gb storage space upgrade.
I would suggest edubuntu on a cheapie desktop/tower. My kids, two and four are starting with that. There are educational games from learning to use a mouse and keyboard to chemical bonding, astronomy to foreign languages. It can assist them with their school curiculum, as well as giving them the programming tools and hardware to play with. I do recommend as some others have stated - don't force it on them. Let them pick it up as something fun, and they will go further with it.
They have an old system of mine thatwas $350 about four years ago. Dead slow with windows on it, but decent for linux. You can probably pick one up for under $50 - giving you $250 for other activities.
There are two misunderstanding in the replies. The submitter has no knowledge about programming, operating system, likely not in electronics. A 7 year old will be interested in those things which his parents do. Or at least in something in which he gets very strong guidance. So he will not start to code, install systems etc.
On the other hand a 7 years old will likely get homework which can be completed using the internet. This should be done on his parent's computer with their help. But he will likely want to play old games too, so at least a 3 years old desktop will be useful.
The second misunderstanding is the horrible, unbelievable underestimation of children. If he does get help, and I mean real help, several hours / day if necessary, then a child can do almost anything, which does not require prolonged attention. My son understood electronics when he was about 3-4-5 years old. This is not my profession, it was only a hobby at my childhood, therefore I spent 2 hours with reading and searching on the internet almost every day, in order to be able to answer to his questions. When he was 7 years old he wrote 100-200 lines programs in C and Java.
Surprised that in so many pages of comments this isn't coming up more often. You can buy a whole lot of kit for 300 bucks, and it's got blinkenlights. Or, for that matter, any of a zillion SoC demo kits. Think outside the (beige) box ...
The parent has a point, start with a basic electronics kit and teach him about LOGIC...
This !
But in my case, I first taught my kids LOGIC without having to resort to electronics - I use everyday life occasions to ease them into understanding LOGIC - the simpler ones at first, and gradually mixing with increasing complexity
After I feel that they are able to grasp basic tenet of LOGIC then I expose them to electronics kit (of course, the safe type, using batteries, I won't want my kids to be crispy fried)
Only after that I get them to play with LOGO
It's a step by step approach, but I start my kids very early - in their tender age of 2 and 3
Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
...and it's this.
Why not buy yourself a new computer and let your son inherit the one you're using now, unless it's a brand new shiny one, of course. Minor caveat: You need to know how to transfer your files from your current to the new one for this to work.
Don't worry about the learning about it. By the time he's 9 he will probably be teaching you to do stuff. Speaking of that, you will want to remove anything interesting that you have on it before you hand it over...
Get leopard or later on Intel. Battery powered. Portable like any toy. Built in camera and mic. Very difficult to break the os even with admin rights. Time machine for quick recovery and instant learning. Plenty of education software (like TUX) and multiple development environments available.
So why all this static against teaching your kids to program if you've found it a fun and fulfilling career?
I was going to say give them an Android phone and pay them 10c a line they program. If you start em early they'll get the basics down and start doing their own projects before Grade 1.
But hearing the hardware assembly idea I like that to. IT is a good career, if Slashdotters cannot agree on the one true OS (I run Mint) no one ever will.
Again IT is a good career, Hardware optimization shouldn't be magic.
Give the kid some Raspberry Pi. Then you can teach him/her about the components and open source Linux OS. He/She can use an old TV screen for the display and play some NES video games through an emulator and a USB game controller.
MS-DOS teaches a command line and is so dead simple. contrary to a bash prompt it rewards you with high quality games (though they run their own stuff and DOS is a few KB of shit waiting for them to terminate). there's even Qbasic, which is more or less hated for goto spaghetti (though it has while loops) but it's unique, well-known and comes with comprehensive hypertext documentation. Qbasic was the only form of programming for the masses ever after 8-bit computers!, barring modern project known by a few geeks and thus not reaching the masses..
There's no shortage of greatness, such as Indiana Jones adventure games and the Incredible Machines. these are games that made you read or think. even the original Prince of Persia was nice and can still be played today, The only boring part is, while it runs on every PC from 1981 to 2012, you may need an ISA slot and ISA sound card for sound compatibility, especially adlib. getting a packet driver for a random network interface is easier. I had a port of Lynx, ssh client but did not find a VNC client sadly.
a DOS machine is too limited of course, you could set up a dual boot, ubuntu 12.04 with a crappy desktop such as iceWM where he can has the multimedia and web and boring things.
Lot of negative comments here.. Find something free or near free(think p4), put a linux distro of your choice on it. Start him learning linux at a young age and he will be set for life. If you don't know linux well, you will also benefit from this experience.
When I was a bit younger than your child, my father sat me down with a bunch of computer parts and walked me through assembling them. They were just random parts out of junk computers, neither of us knew going in if enough were functional to make a working computer out of, which really helped to teach me how to identify what part was failing. It took a few hours to put together a working machine but by time we were done he said, "this is your computer, if you take good care of it and keep it working for a year, I will let you pick out your next computer", and then he put all the parts we found to be functional into a box in my closet for me to use if any of the parts in that computer failed. He helped me a lot through that year to learn how to take care of a computer, and what they can be used to do. When the end of the year came he held up his end of the bargain and I picked out a Packard Bell that was blazing fast for it's time. If it wasn't for this I probably would have just treated a computer as if it were a magic box like most people do.
My dad only really knew enough about computers to identify what parts would work together and how to assemble them, the rest he just winged (or researched in his spare time). We were both learning and teaching each other for that year, and it really has been a very rewarding thing for me as I now make enough money to get by on with building and repairing computers. Having started at such an early age really gave me a leg up on all the late comers that like to reinstall Windows and call that a repair job, growing up around the technology tends to teach you the ins and outs of how it works and proper maintenance.
C-64 or Vic-20. I can imagine if he/she is really into computers and technology, he/she will find interest in the old machines. Here's a good resource: http://www.vandenbrande.com/wp/2009/06/breadbox64-a-twitter-client-for-the-c64/
Get him a Cray Y-MP. It has much more power than an iPad, and it can heat your house too.
I got my daughter a computer for her 3rd birthday. $99 on eBay for a P4 2.8Ghz HP. Installed Linux, put a few educational games on it and a few of her movies. She is now 7 years old. Can type on the keyboard and navigate the desktop and applications.Next step is to install a LOGO/ turtle programming type language to teach procedural programming. After all, that's how I started.
I however will never introduce her to BASIC. That language held me back for so long until I bit the bullet and forced myself to learn C.
In 1933 a 7 year old would be learning about a ten or twenty year old Model-T.
Ten years later in 1943 he would be learning about World War II type technology. Planes were the big thing.
On the other hand you could have taught him bear trapping and skinning.
Only thing is Internet time is far accelerated to those type of time frames.
So ten years would seem more like 25 or 30, a whole generation of technology.
I think I would focus more on his health and social skills at 7 years old, dosing him lightly in the current tech, and let him sort it out.
Spoon feeding him will injerently be stuck in the past and hold him back.
And if he can't figure it out for himself, it won't matter anyway.
At the age of 6 my father gave me a 486SX/2 for my birthday that he had built from spare parts. I had always been somewhat interested in computers (and all things science) and I guess this just helped me along. At this time the 486SX/2 was a bit behind already at this point, but that was exactly what helped me get where I am today with my understanding of computers.Over time I would want to do something on the computer, I would ask my father how to do it, he would tell me, and I would try until I accomplished what I set out to do. When I wanted sound, he showed me how to install a sound card, remove memory, and about personal safety as well as safety concerning the hardware. The next time I wanted to install hardware, I got some of his tools out and went to it with little trouble. When I would have an issue with the computer he would give me pointers on how to fix or diagnose an issue, but he would always let me figure it out. This has translated quiet well into other real world technological applications other than just computers and software.
As I got older he would take me to work with him during the summers. He worked in computer shop for a fairly big employer. They would tear down old machines and save the useful parts and surplus the rest, and so I would help out with that. The end result is got quiet efficient at changing out parts rapidly. They would also go on mass installation projects of hardware and software, so I would help do that as well. Over the years I have garnered much knowledge of computer hardware and software from my father. But I digress, and now to the point.
The point is this. You can give them a computer, but if they're not going to be allowed to tinker with it, make mistakes, and find solutions on their own or with a little hands off guidance, then they're going to learn little. If you give them a reason to keep their computer up and running (a computer game, talking to friends (though 7 sounds a bit young for that), videos) then they will take to it and learn as much as you will allow them.
it's too bad you can't actually buy the "$100" One Laptop Per Child machine. (Actually, you can, on eBay, and it costs around $200-$250.)
I don't see anything wrong with giving a kid a computer. One low-cost option is the Asus EeePC 1000, which is a Windows 7 or Linux 10" laptop with WiFi for about $200. A smartphone, though, I have some misgivings about, simply because so many kids are glued to the things. It makes them oblivious to their surroundings.
When I was a kid, I had a lot of Matchbox cars. One day, I decided their was a massive accident. So I took a big hammer and smashed several of them.
You may say a computer is fragile, but if the kid has a bit of imagination, sooner or later he will decide the computer crashed...
the best computer for a 7 Y O is a brain. Why Silicon Valley leaders fight to send their children to Waldorf schools ?
I got my 4-year-old son a 10-year-old Panasonic Toughbook CF-29 fully-rugged laptop. Got it on eBay for less than $150. The touchscreen is broken but I didn't care. I installed a basic Linux Mint XFCE system on it, and it works like a champ. My son is a bit too young for programming yet (though he seems interested in Logo turtle graphics). He mostly uses his computer to play games, draw pictures and watch Magic School Bus episodes.
Being fully rugged, the laptop should survive just about anything my kid might throw at it (literally and figuratively). Its keyboard feels great despite being waterproof, and the screen is amazing for a 10-year-old laptop. Of course this was top of the line when new, and it cost several thousand dollars. It exudes quality.
A few days ago, a firetruck was parked in the street, and my kid said excitedly "Look daddy! They have the same computer as I do!" and indeed, there was a CF-29 mounted in the truck.
...and uses my Desktop PC better than i do. No amount of password, parental controls works on him. His only sites are Lego.com and Youtube's Lego/Starwars channels. Tried blocking it in HOSTS file. Seems damn useless. He just started playing them directly in Bing's search results. Blocked Bing, and google is available. Blocked Google, and suddenly found am helpless. Oh, and in addition, the same HOSTS file stuff does not work on iPhone or iPad. Password protected iPhone, and he broke it by watching me type in once. Used parental controls on iPad, and he went to settings to disable it. On the Galaxy S3 phone its worse. You change the password, he looks at the keyboard while you type. And retypes the exact same sequence next time. You use the face recognition on Galaxy S3, he shoves the phone in your face to unlock and runs away. You use pattern security, he uses the Emergency dial to call my landline and pester me unless i unlock. Amazingly, he doesn't spill liquids or treats the PC/Phone harsh. He treats them better than i do. I hate myself.
"Doing what i can, with what i have." ~ Burt Gummer
Have him help, but keep an eye on everything he does. Insist he never do anything dealing with hardware without you. It sounds like you could use the experience too.
Otherwise, postpone the guts exposed part until a later birthday and buy a cheap netbook or laptop. Focus on software. My cousin at age 3 was given her first desktop, a used late 90s iMac she loved. She learned enough that at 4 she was emailing family, looking stuff up and troubleshooting basic problems. At 5 she asked for a faster computer. I convinced my wider family to combine resources and for her 6th birthday she got a netbook.
She loved that netbook, but a tragic accident destroyed the machine. It wasn't her fault. However being the paranoid nut I am, I had insured the machine. The insurance company took it and sent a check. She hadn't used the machine like I imagined she would, I made the mistake of assuming she would do more of the same; emailing family, looking stuff up and maybe some basic flash games. Instead she wanted to install Sims 2, Fable, etc. So I got family to contribute more and used that with the check to get her an Alienware M11x. A bit much for a 6-year-old? Perhaps, but (a) not every 6-year-old is the same - even then I would have sooner trusted her with mine than many adults - and (b) it fit how she was using it. She's 8 now and happy as ever with the machine.
Of course you have to consider the child. Her sister wasn't mature enough for a laptop at age 6. Her sister's 7th birthday is now approaching and I think it may be about time. I'm looking at options. She's a bit of a gamer, so I have to consider graphics. Else I could have given her my old laptop months ago, with it's insanely weak GMA 950 integrated graphics. Instead I sent that to a 7-year-old girl I used to nanny for knowing that her family would never let her play more than the simplest games, if that. Anyway, the M11x is no longer made and I'm no fan of used laptops, so I'm affording my youngest cousin more input. She's showing a strong preference for 13.3" laptops under 4 lbs. To get the best fit, I may have to hide the price from my wider family via contributing heavily. As a college student, this isn't easy for me, but I'll make it happen.
Err, I'm rambling. I get what you're trying to do. When I was growing up, messing around with the inside of a desktop helped me learn quite a bit, but perhaps setting the OS you choose up, installing applications, etc. is enough for now. This assumes simply using a computer is already in place. I would follow with basic troubleshooting like printer issues.
As for those talking about limiting horizons, don't listen. That's a silly notion. Not that children who show the slightest aptitude for computers weren't often pigeonholed in the past, or perhaps still every now and then, but that typically had nothing to do with the child. Rather it had or has everything to do with those responding to the child. Watch the other adults and your child should be fine. My 8-year-old cousin plays soccer, the violin, launches model rockets, plays with lego, etc. I don't see her ending up at a software company, I'm more afraid that she'll invade Poland.
Good luck.
1) get any desktop computer for the requisite 300 bucks,
2) undo the two "screws" with a "screwdriver" and "slide off" the "side panel"
3) hamster and hamster wheel battery charger not included
i remember when black and white meant yellow and brown
sincerely,
the monochrome unibrow
ITT: Vague tech-related story used as an excuse to tell everyone what an amazing parent I am.
Quite easily the very worst thing about being a parent is having to listen to other parents' condescending life lessons.
Hej! Nasi tu byli!
Anything from Apple. Children like shiny things.
I think this should be a pretty easy.
1. Go to Craigslist and find something that works for around $50. Normally if you look long enough you can find something older that will fit the bill. They might even thrown in a CRT for the monitor too. Keep it cheap such that if it is broken you won't care/can replace it easily.
2. Set it up with likely XP and or if you really want to get crazy dual/boot with some *nix. Keep in mind at 7 they likely are going to be just hitting the web with it so all it really needs to do is be ready to do some flash. (My 7 y/o nephew that has such a setup mostly will play some very simple flash games and or watch videos about Legos, Star Wars, and such.)
3. Set it up in a common area. I'd recommend not letting them get full access to the hardware unless they are supervised. Power supply's can be dangerous as well as other minor things like common computer components/cases having edges that can tear up skin pretty good.
4. See if they take to it. Some kids are going to be more interested in computers than others. Some will just want to fool around with them others might take a deeper interest, adjust how much you want to put into the project as warranted.
Really, I know what I'm doing...Ohhhh, look at the shiny buttons!
go for the best bang for the buck in the newest technology best parts count power efficiency operating system speed and satisfaction ,the learning is on the web old slow equipment is merely distracting
Could somebody explain for me this fetish with "staring at the guts of a computer"? What about it do you think is going to be so fascinating to a 7 year old? "Oh look, some green and silver and black bits with metallic stuff" is not "educational." Systems-on-a-chip (which pretty much every mobile computer is these days) are so tightly integrated that you will not learn much of anything staring at them, whether or not it's a Mac, a Lenovo, or a Dell. And frankly, most desktop systems won't be all that educational these days either.
And that's FINE. Your child does not need to be a circuit designer to appreciate, use, and be quite comfortable with the internal workings of a computer. There is no need for them to re-discover every aspect of computer design, because lots of smart people have already discovered those aspects, and the child can look up the "correct" answers for how things work in the documentation.
Computers are less about "tinkering with hardware" now, and much more about "understanding how to work the software." Teach your child the software part - if they need to know, or have to understand, the hardware someday - they can do so. The child will be much better served understanding and being familiar with a couple Operating Systems and a high-level programming language or two. They can always go back and learn the other stuff.
The reason everybody in the 60's knew how to fix an engine was because they *had to know how to fix an engine.* Most people don't know how to do that anymore, and that's okay - engines break down rarely enough that it makes sense to bring it to a knowledgeable mechanic for most people. The same applies to computers: 30 years ago, you *needed* to understand the hardware settings intimately to make shit work. Today, that's less of an issue because things are far more reliable and far more tightly integrated - so learn how the software works, and learn the hardware if you actually need to.
As far as the hardware is concerned, a first-generation EeePC seems ideal to me. These things are easily available second hand, cheap, powerful enough even for a little bit of video, and can take a lot of abuse. As to software - that's more tricky, depends a lot on the child and will require a lot of work.
Seriously OP just get your kid an iPad - and whatever the cool lego hotness with motors is that there is now-a-days.Then he can learn to use a modern computing system and still have the opportunity to grow his curiosity on how things are built and put together with the lego stuff.
The iPad is godlike for kids. All kinds of games (learning or otherwise), music, creative (painting, music making) apps, interactive books! Extremely portable, long battery life, virtually impossible to screw up the system. I would have murdered for something like that when I was 7.
I agree it's a good thing for him to learn to type, perhaps you could just let him use your computer with some typing software. You could also check and see if there are typing tutors for the iPad. There are tons of keyboard attachments you can get which would allow him to use such typing software with the iPad.
For one thing your kid is pretty young, not even 7 years old. He is still just learning the basics of english and basic math. If you had some kind of hope that he would be some kind of uber-coder or be soldering his own circuit boards for his own custom build PC I think it's way too early for that. Maybe when he is 10 or 12 he might show a deeper interest for those kinds of things and that would be the time to introduce him the the nuts and bolts of how computers work.
Honestly, by the time he is that age probably 90% of computers will be some kind of tablet. You're just impairing him by forcing him to be limited to classical PCs.
My 6 year old girl had struck a balance between creating things and consuming at the computer. She draws, writes and build things in Minecraft. Internet is used to mostly go to youtube and learn new stuff she then applies to making things. This is something i think is very important and what will differ the kids when they get older. Some kids will just use the computer as a media hub to make the hours go away between sleep sessions, some will use them to create things.
Unless the child is steered towards creating on the computer it will be better off without one at all. Nobody is going to get a job because they can chat, play games, surf 4-chan or make badly spelled comments on Facebook. The ones getting the jobs are the ones that has learnt to use the computer as just a tool to get a task done. The other ones will have lost much of their younger years of development to mindless drooling and as a side effect, have a complete lack of concentration, focus and patience.
HTTP/1.1 400
I'm sorry if this has been mentioned (I don't have time to read all 326 comments), but have you thought about building a computer yourself? I don't know if you have the skills, and I've never done it, myself, but it sounds like it's not too difficult a project using off the shelf parts. If I was a kid today, I would so enjoy helping my dad build my first computer. Imagine the pride he would have in it. And, he would learn important lessons like patience, acceptance of delayed gratification and how to troubleshoot (when the thing inevitably doesn't work first time you turn it on).
I would highly recommend the most inexpensive new netbook, notebook, cpu you can find. It would be preferable that there be no pre-installed operating system because I recommend immediately installing Doudou Linux which comes preconfigured with a wealth of educational games and programs and parental control on the web browser. It is an entire operating system specifically designed with children ages 2-12 in mind. Check it out! http://doudoulinux.org/web/english/index.html
None,
Push the kid out the door till he/she is 14.
Signed
A Parent
I'm posting this as someone who has a 6 year old (Who loves riding his bike, climbing trees and has wanted to be a scientist when he grows up since 4). I'm a C.S. person who worked in mainframes for years before converting to the dark side of management. My wife is an engineer.
For the circuitry aspect, get them "Snap Circuits" (Linky). It's fun to do with them, and teaches the basics of electricity and circuitry.
The computer, I gave him my old laptop (I always buy laptops with full keyboards AND the 10-key pad. I hate small keyboards, I have big hands.). I let him watch while I build computers (A hobby I do for friends / family), and explain what I'm doing. I don't feel he has the coordination to build it himself yet.
Emulators. I love emulators. Especially the old Mac emulators (Basilisk II, Mini vMac, SheepShaver). DosBox. This gives him a feel for "old computer" handling, and teaches him how to look up error codes and solve problems. When he solves things, the reward is playing old computer games (Wizardry, *Macintosh* Dark Castle, Lemmings, etc.). He really gets a kick out of doing that. It also teaches him how to mount and dismount drives without corrupting images. What that previous sentence means, and what happens when a disk image is corrupted.
Since his computer is a laptop, it's easier to take to different places, load in the car for long trips, etc. Since it's my old laptop, I don't mind if he breaks it (Although he's been warned that's his only computer for "A long time", so take care of it).
The computer is running Windows XP simply because Windows is the OS his school uses. I don't want to confuse him too badly. The main "TV Computer" (My HTPC) runs Linux. He uses that for some things, so he is exposed to Linux.
I want to get him into programming. I suggest finding online tutorials to go with compilers (Nehe is my preferred tutorial), but he isn't quite ready for that. He will be programming before 10.
Like I said earlier, every kid is different, so go with what works for your kiddo. Good Luck.
I would suggest never buying your kids an apple computer, they will turn into people who see the mac as a solution to anything. You need a computer to run windows or Linux, you should get a mac and use boot camp!!! Never mind that it will be many times more expensive! Never mind that it is for a 7 year old so soda and koolaid will be spilled! Never mind that it has no user serviceable parts, so the kid wont get a chance to see inside the computer! Lets just get them started young!
Macs make great computers for people who just want it to work. They aren't so hot at teaching someone how it works though. Can't we just use the right tool for the job, and drop the fanboism?
TI-83
It isn't really important what computer you buy him. What matters is how you introduce him to it.
If you put the computer in his room, show him how to turn it on and start a couple of games and a drawing program, and then leave him to his own devices (pun not originally intended, but now that I've written it I kind of like it), you are effectively abandoning your duty as a parent.
The computer is just an object -- not a teacher, and certainly not a parent. Furthermore, it'll be hopelessly obsolete by the time he's in junior high anyway. It doesn't matter very much exactly what model of computer he's got.
What matters is how *you* interact with him. If you're constantly showing him things, asking him questions, guiding him to understand the system better, teaching him to experiment and learn what different things do, and so on and so forth, then you're teaching him how to learn, and perhaps more importantly how to enjoy learning. Some kids can pick this up on their own, but it's not the way to bet. Some kids will pick it up in school, but that's not the way to bet either.
Don't take chances. Teach your son how to enjoy learning. A computer is a tool you can use for that, but the exact model you select is not important. Honestly, an old 386 with DOS 6 and Windows 3.1 would be adequate.
Oh, one more thing: this won't seem important now, when he's seven, but it sets a precedent. He's probably going to be a teenager at some point in the future, and this precedent may then become very important. Put the computer in a public room, like a family room or living room or den or something. When he gets to be about 10 or 12, he's going to want some privacy in his bedroom, and you're going to want to start giving him that (because it's a healthy part of his growing up), but you don't really want him to have that privacy when using the internet until he's somewhat older, because he won't have the discernment to handle it well yet. Put the computer where there can be adult supervision a good healthy percentage of the time, so you'll be able to continue to guide him through his teenage years. (This isn't just about porn, either. You'll need to teach him to tell the difference between an article and an advertisement, evaluate privacy risks associated with social networking, and so on and so forth.)
Cut that out, or I will ship you to Norilsk in a box.
BBC ACORN? Please? They're not obsolete yet?
My dad got a bunch of surplussed computers when my brother and I were around 10-12. We hand about 20-30+ systems that we could pull apart, put together and screw up without messing anything up. We quickly learned what was compatible and what would smoke when we tried to turn it on. We actually got a couple of working systems out of the batch, sold one to a guy in our chuch, and had a blast learning.
Get him an iPad with Keyboard and let him learn Html/Javascript. That is more than what a 7 year old would need to teach him/herself some basic programming.
Buy em a game, and explain that they can play it after you guys figure out how to put together the computer to run it. Play dumb, give hints to assembly, make it a game to get a game as a reward
Just because you are interested in computing doesn't mean your seven year old will be. My father was a Meccano fan and bought me a set at a similar age. I couldn't stand it and it turned me off technology for life. He'll become interested if he wants to, otherwise let him get a broad view of the world. Strangely enough my son is an Apple developer and my granddaughter was designing web pages at seven!
You want him to treat it like an old car engine, be willing to look inside instead of treating it like an ipod?
Then build one with him!
Its really not that hard. Computers are like Lego, you just learn this plugs into that. Learning which components are compatible (DDR2 vs DDR3 etc) can be a little complicated, but that's the only hard part. As long as you help him pick the components so they work together (or get a store employee to help you) and then you don't push on the components too hard, you really can't go wrong.
I got into computers at a really young age myself.
Buy an old motherboard, get a CPU that matches, and a basic videocard, a small cheap harddrive, and some RAM. Blammo, you're in business.
Now you can also have fun building the computer, and teach him what the components mean in the first place. Understanding the hardware makes understanding the software much easier.
GCS/MU/P d- s:- a-- C++++$ UL++ P+ L++ E+ W++ N o K- w--- O M+ V- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP t+ 5- X R++ tv+ b++ DI++ D++ G+ e++ h-
I'd worry more about robots and aliens
By the time I was 7, I was programming BASIC on a Video Genie without destroying it. In fact. it still worked at least ten years later. It was at the time my favourite thing, but that didn't mean I was allowed to drag it around with me, or make use it in any of my frequent fights with my brothers.
That said computers of that era were built orders of magnitude more ruggedly than your average modern laptop.
http://news.cnet.com/8301-1023_3-57509518-93/toys-r-us-unwraps-$150-tabeo-tablet-for-kids/
News today; Toys R US releasing tablet.
I bought my (then 5 year old) daughter a PC off the used market. It was a small form factor HP from a business, and got a nice princess-themed mouse/keyboard/speakers, and a decent used 15 inch monitor. I don't regret it at all. She is now almost 7, and is starting to show interest in learning how the computer works. Granted, I whitelisted the sites she can go to so that I don't need to worry about navigation on the internet, but she has become very adept at using a computer...and all that cost me a total of $150.
Poor kid. I'm sure all he wants is an iPad.
I think what youre looking for is something that has a simple enough interface for him to just putz around and play, but that has the underlying system capable of supporting a great deal of tinkering when the time comes. That said, I would avoid Windows. Although it is great for the average users that want to just get stuff done and dont care to tinker, and although it DOES actually provide a pretty decent amount of guts to play with, it has a tendency to dumb people down in the end. I think what you might be looking for, which I'm sure somebody mentioned, is something like Ubuntu. Simple easy to use interface for now, with a powerful back end for later, and he will learn a LOT more on this platform than any other. There are a decent amount of games and such for linux, and with a little help from daddy and WINE most windows games can be played as well. Not to mention that it is free. The hardware that you put this on is more or less irrelevant at this point, as most games for younger kids are not too intense, later down the line if he gets more into more complex gaming you can upgrade. If I could go back to when my son was that age, I would have done the same thing.
Magalhães :D
This is a portuguese computer made for school children spread by the govern for the last 5 years.
It is quite awesome for children because it is quite robust. It has a Portuguese Linux Distro (I belive it's Caixa Mágica) and Windows... but you can easily change it.
Dear Tard,
The 90's called and they want their "Hurr Durr Apple Tax" argument back.
Macs today are no more expensive than a similarly-featured Windows/Linux PC. ("similarly featured" being the key word) If buying the cheapest thing that will possibly run an Intel platform on it is your criteria, then Macs aren't for you, and you should probably cobble together your shit computer out of whatever parts you can afford there in Pauperville.
But if you're planning to buy a decently powerful, well constructed computer, then you'll be spending about the same amount whether you buy a Lenovo, Dell, HP, Sony, Mac, or any other manufacturer's kit.
Sincerely,
The Slashdot posters who are sick of hearing this worn-out, inaccurate trope.
I recommend a Chrome computer. They are simple to use and the OS is not going to get in the way of using it.
http://www.google.com/intl/en/chrome/devices/
These are very important formative years. At a minimum quad core CPU, 16 GB RAM, single GPU with 1 GB memory, and 23" LCD (their eyes are important). I haven't justified a reason to go solid state drives on all the kids computers, yet.
I won't put on here what my 3, 6, and 8 year old use. Let me just say that Minecraft plays flawlessly on all of the kid's computers.
Thats how my dad got me, i started playing around on an Amiga, and before long i discovered a disk with the Colossal Cave Adventure on it.... the rest is history