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Windows 7 Not Getting A Second Service Pack
An anonymous reader writes "Windows 7 was expected to have Service Pack 2 issued roughly 3 years from its introduction (late 2009). People, including myself, have been asking 'Where is it?' and the answer apparently is, 'It isn't, and will never be' which lends itself to the giant pain of installing Windows 7, then Service Pack 1, and hundreds of smaller hotfix patches. Why Microsoft? No go to Service Pack 2 for Windows 7!"
NT4 - 6 2000 - 4 XP - 3 Vista - 2 7 - 1 8 - 0???
Duh. People won't willingly switch to Windows 8, so this is just another way to push them there.
Having barely used Windows for the last few years I'd almost forgotten the horror of Windows Update compared to apt-get or yum update.
Windows 8....
Unix, an obscure operating system developed by bored researchers in an attempt to get a better game playing experience.
Why not install Win7 SP1, hit the update button and walk away... if it's really a problem, you can always set up a wsus server.
Does Microsoft think it can just withhold updates and people will upgrade like lemmings to the Entity Formerly Known as Metro?
This is only going to accelerate the migration to Ipads, Android tablets, a bit of Linux, et alia.
I'm not a lawyer, but I play one on the Internet. Blog
If you are doing fresh installs that often, just create a slipstream disc. Problem solved.
I've never understood the need to apply patches on patches on patches on ... Maybe it's just a Linux thing I'm used to, or maybe I'm not even aware it's happening, but why isn't there just a single "updated" version that is pushed out?
When service-packs were slow in coming for previous windows OS's, weren't there some "unofficial" bundles that basically did the same thing?
This is disappointing, but not surprising. Microsoft knows that most experienced Windows users don't want any part of Windows 8. But they are convinced that Windows 8 is a vital part of their business strategy going forward. So they are doing whatever they can to bribe, force, or coerce users to switch to Windows 8. They don't want Windows 7 to become the new XP, even though they profited handsomely for many years from XP licenses. The power user/business desktop just isn't cool enough for Steve Ballmer, Steven Sinofsky, and the other myopic decision-makers at MS these days.
Should there be one? I mean, with so many people singing 7's praises, why would they even bother?
Honestly, WTF is wrong with you people, you're getting security patches with some degree of speed, it's incredible compared to it's previous incarnations, what more do you want? I remember a time, when, with a single ping, you could drop everybody on the network, have you all forgotten stuff like that? BSOD's anyone?
DISM supports offline patching of .WIM Images:
http://myitforum.com/myitforumwp/2012/01/31/offline-wim-patching-with-dism-a-more-automated-method/
If you're just installing Windows 7 from CD on a large install, you're doing it wrong. Deploy a patched WIM.
I usually use Linux, but occasionally I spin up a Win 7 vm when I need it. If you install using a SP1 disk, there are around 100 updates that need to be installed afterward. In my experience, this is comparable to the amount of updates needed after grabbing the latest Ubuntu LTS or a few month old Fedora release (Although Windows update can be slower that Apt or Yum). Sure its not super convenient, but if you are installing Windows enough for it to be a problem, then you aren't doing your deployments correctly. You should really look into WSUS and WAIK for updating and deploying windows, respectively. They are both Microsoft products, but there are also numerous 3rd party tools of variable quality. A proper WAIK install can actually do the patching process during the install, so that when the computer logs in for the first time, it is fully patched.
Two words: Planned obsolescence
Just like Windows ME was a service pack for 98 SE?
They want you to think of Windows 8 as a replacement that is so good they need not have a sp2 for 7. They also want to give the impression they're stopping support for 7 so anyone who wants customer service will have to upgrade, which in the end all lends itself to profile.
Per my subject-line above: I submitted this today since I felt it was important not only for matters of convenience but also time-saving!
By installing a Service Pack instead of the roughly 80++ hotfix patches I have that APPLY to this system (and there are about 10 more that don't for whatever reasons) after Service Pack #1 is installed!
Now, bear in mind, that having to install THAT many patches (many needing a reboot)?
Hey - this is a LOT OF ROOM FOR ERROR in that one could SKIP one of them (and most are "critical security-related fixes") as well as time-consumption even if done manually (worse, if you wait for "Windows Update" to do it)).
I sort of "beat" the time-consummation by installing them in NAME order, ala e.g.-> KB1.exe -> KB2.exe -> KB3.exe (you get the picture) & then, I do an "en-masse reboot" - telling the hotfixes to omit the reboot UNTIL I APPLY THEM ALL!
(Yes, I am hoping this is "ok" to do, & so far over the years/decades now, it's worked)...
However again, it's risk - MORE RISK than installing a single service pack that "rolls up" those 80++ hotfixes as well as IE9 & its unified "remote install" rollup service packs too (mostly these are "the latest/greatest" contains the fixes from the ones before it, again, afaik).
I don't like the time taken or risk either, doing that many installed file patches @ once is all... I doubt ANYONE here does!
* Lastly, as I stated in my submission - others are and HAVE been curious about it. I am one of them, since I submitted a story not TOO long ago regarding my asking "Where is Service Pack #2 for Windows 7?" here -> http://idle.slashdot.org/submission/2245763/where-is-windows-7-service-pack-2 but, I was "rejected"... not this time!
(Nice part is, it's the VERY 1st story /.'s ever taken from me, & I've been "hanging around" here posting since 2005... "bonus", I guess!)
APK
P.S.=> LMAO @ the "Unknown Lamer" as the submitter...
... apk
Has decided that its out with the old and in with the new. Anyone opposing him is binned or sidelined. To underline the drive involved in Windows 8 - Windows 7 will quite quickly face a lock. If they can force you onto 8 thats where they will do so.
If he doesn't do this, the moment they will get on 8 will be minimised and he will look a private and public failure. And Mr Sinofsky doesn't like to be a failure.
It may questionably be good for windows users long term - as this might mean that the eco system has the earthquake required to shunt a billion trillion manhours of ecostructure from old win to new win.
Personally I think metro/notro is very poor. And it would take more than Sinofsky being a knob and a shitty UI to persuade people in the real world. Thus, looks rocky to me.
Its a shame, because to be blunt, 8 has some good engineering as does server 2012, utterly ruined by Sinofsky's insane LSD based unwindows, no windows allowed, ported from zune, but still broken beta UI. To rub your nose in it, they broke the old UI as well, and denied you the start bar and old desktop even if you like it. From now on its notro for you. Unless you go get classic shell and give sinofsky the finger.
The problem is I think he'd like the finger, so lets not.
I'll get my coat.
We`re all equal
MS does not want to repeat its WinXP "mistake" of customers not upgrading; service packs were sufficient to run legacy software and not retrain employees. XP is a stable enough, functional OS with sufficient features that there is no compelling reason to upgrade. If your future profits depend on customers willingly upgrade ,why would you make it easy to NOT upgrade by supplying service packs.
Ironically, the price for XP machine was climbing for the first half of the year. I replaced my child's old WinXP with refurbished machine several months ago because of legacy software and minimal requirements compared to VISTA or Win7.
. . . .
You can't always wait for your ship to come in;
sometimes you just have to row out and get it!
For small shops who only do a few "from scratch" installs a year and who want to patch their system as much as possible before connecting to a network, annual, quarterly, and monthly bundles will be a good solution.
If I can download:
Service Pack 1
2011 patch bundle for Windows 7
1Q2012 patch bundle for Windows 7
2Q2012 patch bundle for Windows 7
3Q2012 patch bundle for Windows 7
October 2012 patch bundle for Windows 7
and install all of these before I turn on the network, I'll feel a lot safer.
The current option of downloading Service Pack 1 then individually downloading each subsequent patch isn't practical for most small shops.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
So instead of one big update they are releasing lots of small ones. As long as holes get patched in time I don't see how this affects end users. It's just a different patching schedule, a development-time decision which has little to do with the quality of the product.
You can make your own, I have been using this since version 2 - it allows you to make a DVD or you can just copy to a usb key.
http://www.h-online.com/security/features/Offline-Update-746179.html
A computer once beat me at chess, but it was no match for me at kick boxing. Emo Philips
Microsoft wants to shove Windows 8 (The Playskool OS) down everyone's throat, so they'll phase out Windows 7 as soon as they think they can get away with doing so. Step 1 in that process is not issuing a Service Pack 2.
Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
Special security updates aside, whenever Apple updates the OS e.g. 10.7.2 to 10.7.3, it's essentially a service pack. Normally there's a combo updater that rolls up all updates for that major release so you could go from 10.x.0 to 10.x.4 (example only).
There are times when Apple's monolithic updates are a drawback, especially for traditional enterprise IT who might need to exclude certain updates, but here they have a clear advantage over Windows' hundreds of individual patches (sometimes requiring 2 or 3 Windows Update runs and restarts to get them all).
Microsoft hasn't done one of those since Windows 2000, but at one time they had a roll-up patch for 2K SP4 that incorporated all the updates released between the SP and the roll-up. I wish they'd re-institute the practice because it saves us desktop-support types a lot of time.
Maybe make a yearly roll-up so that I shouldn't have to install more than a few dozen updates at the most when I put our image on the computers. I've rolled my own image, but it's a bit of a pain to install updates.
Hail Eris, full of mischief...
E pluribus sanguinem
no no
CE was the sp for ME was the sp for NT
CEMENT!
People in cars cause accidents....accidents in cars cause people
Not releasing an SP will force people to Windows 8? I for one do not intend to upgrade from Windows 7 until at least 2017.. Why? Because there is no reason to..
Why Microsoft? No go to Service Pack 2 for Windows 7!"
From the TFA:
Service packs are a pain for Microsoft, because they divert engineers’ time and budget from building new versions of Windows. In this case, the anticipation for Windows 7’s SP2 comes around the same time as the launch of Windows 8, out later this week. Also, by ending SPs, Microsoft could be pushing customers towards the completely new Windows 8.
So bend over and lube up people. :-)
It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
Glass is gone, not Aero.
Aero is the desktop composition engine that uses the GPU to do all kinds of rendering shit. This is present in 8 and in fact faster/more capable than ever. Glass (Aero Glass) is the shiny UI in Windows 7, that is gone in Windows 8, replaced with an uglied up flat, square, UI.
So basically there is an even better desktop composition engine, that is used to composite something that looks like Windows 3.1 :).
In terms of drivers, yes older drivers seem quite compatible. My pro sound card works no problems with the 7 drivers and pro audio cards have some of the most finicky drivers out there.
He wants to force everyone on the planet to use Windows 8, at gunpoint if need be. And if he can't do that, he'll take your older OS and go home.
Anything to push sysadmins closer to Windows 8. Of course, you can install windows 7 once, update, sysprep, then clone with your favorite cloning software.
Windows 7 was thrown under a bus the moment Microsoft got shamed into going tablet.
Pity, because Windows 7 is a really good Windows, very little to complain about, and lots of little things like security and Gadgets that seemed to have a future. I skipped Vista, but found Windows 7 a very easy upgrade from XP for work, particularly because nearly everything I don't like about Windows 7 can be tweaked with a tool or a hack.
Investors weren't happy with a good, stable (and dominant!) desktop where Phones and Tablets are the new thing. Microsoft's shift to put the desktop behind them (or, as a process under Metro) is little more than a pander to Wall St. know-it-alls in the hope of getting their stocks and options to rise. But there are no apps, and Balmer is better there won't be unless developers think the desktop is going away.
So bye-bye Windows 7, we hardly knew ye.
Take it easy, Charlie, I've got an Angle...
Windows 7 = NT 6.1
Windows 8 = NT 6.2
More than a service pack, but much less than a complete change.
Fuck you Microsoft for making life harder for everyone all around who uses and supports Windows 7 and trying to force people into using your shitty Windows 8.
If you wanna get rich, you know that payback is a bitch
Use use a variant of this script. You may need to run it multiple times (three seems to work) -- we automate that as well (using Symantec/Altiris Deployment Solution), but that part can be done in various ways. It makes the need for Service Packs a non-issue for automated deployments, and much less of an issue for everyone.
The main problem is that if you don't use WSUS the script appears to only install Windows Updates, not Microsoft Updates. I haven't figured out how to make that work...but it mostly doesn't affect us, as we DO use WSUS, and the script retrieves all WSUS approved updates.
There are alternatives: http://www.wsusoffline.net/
"OK you have every patch ever released for the system in 1 pack, if your problem still exists there is no MS patch available."
My lazy ass learned how to use Linux
Idiocy!!! All M$ had to do was create a repository for monthly fixes and update with some breakdown by priority and whether the patch is critical. Then have a small but effective tool that allows a Windows install to automagically traverse the patch database itself, so M$ doesn't need to do any more work than its doing now, just smarter work, and users are grotesquely inconvenienced. If this is just a shallow attempt to squeeze the user base by making the use of the current OS a draconian pain in the ass, then its clear that M$ doesn't want our business any more and we should comply forth with... there are plenty of other great alternatives out there including windows emulators.
No Windows 8 is Windows 9 Alpha.
Shouldn't the final patch of an EOL-ed product be its full source code? For example, what's preventing Microsoft from releasing the source code to Windows for Workgroups 3.11, oldish NT, or even up to Win2k? If people are still using these, Microsoft is sure as hell not getting one penny anymore from those users. So what harm would there be in releasing that old code base?
cpghost at Cordula's Web.
I thought it was Windows CE Desktop Edition.
I have found there are just two ways to go.
It all comes down to livin' fast or dyin' slow. -REK, Jr.
Microsoft needs to expand and FIX (tons of bugs on my Win 7 machine) Windows 7 instead of pushing out Windows 8. For one thing, it looks to me like Windows 7 is much more favorable than 8 among the general public. Microsoft could probably pick up more revenue from 7 because it IS favorable to 8. I have also heard it is not as intuitive as 7, probably because 8 is designed mainly for tablets (c'mon MS, the majority of computers out there will be laptops/desktops, not tablets). Though I don't know if this is completely true. RIP start menu.
It is like self deportation. If Microsoft makes conditions miserable enough on Windows 7, they hope people will upgrade to Windows 8. It won't work because going form Windows 7 to Windows 8 is like going from Mexico to Guatemala.
You're right, but I think you got it backwards. There is no way MS can make W7 worse than W8. Stop updates alltogether, people will live with only 3rd party AV, trust me. W8 will make people want to go back to W7, or wait for W9. MS knows W8 is a disaster, they'll do what everyone (even Lawmakers & Facebook) does -- Make something so vile that it can never be embraced, then back off and apologize and give everyone something not as horrible that will be better by comparison (the next OS, W9).
I installed Windows 8 (dual boot) on my mother's PC, and when I showed it to her she couldn't say anything at all initially. She just kept strongly shaking her head left and right -- tight-lipped with anger and wide-eyed in fear -- A fear that the software somehow might not be able to be removed, or worse -- That she would actually have to use that software at work one day.
"NO. Just, No...", that's all she said about Windows 8 before leaving the room. I felt as if I'd disappointed her greatly by doing something that wasn't anyones fault -- It was exactly like when I started my truck while the cat was sleeping on the engine block, and got caught in the fan-belt... Everyone just felt horrible, and there was a terrible mess to clean up afterwards. I began re-formatting the partition immediately, and assured her she had nothing to fear since no sensible IT staff would install Windows 8 and the Interface formally known as Metro.
Going from W7 to W8 is more like going from The Bronx to Gotham City. Somewhat similar levels of (cyber) crime, sense of security, and it still has some basic elements an OS should. However, with Windows 8 there's a necessary cognitive leap: A profound Suspension of Disbelief must be maintained whereby you understand everything is pointlessly exaggerated and fake feeling; Where it's clear you're not completely in control, and the most simple tasks become just irritating enough not to balk outright, but to slowly drive you Mad as you routinely try to perform them.
Or, if you prefer: It's like when you see a PC screen on CSI -- It's vaguely recognizable as a computer OS, but you know it's only really usable for exactly that one thing they're doing: Playing make-believe, pretending to use a real OS.
Meh. If you do enough installs for it to matter, download what you need and periodically "update your updates".
"This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
.
Microsoft must be very, very concerned that Windows 8 will be a flop.
I have control over my $ and they won't be heading towards microsofts accounts until they fix there stupid OS after everyone complains. Seems like there business model is as follows: 1) Produce a product that they know is crap 2) Gather complaints and fix bugs 3) Release new product that is fixed 4) Ignore steps 1-3 and produce a new product
Windows Vista SP1 is normally called Windows 7, so the Windows 7 SP1 is what most people sees as an SP2.
Nothing new from Vista to 7, other than what Microsoft normally puts in a SP.
And, Microsoft can see nobody upgrades from XP, so they are afraid that companies will stick with Win7 if it is manageable. No sensible huge enterprise will go for Windows 8, they will wait for the first service pack, labelled Windows 9, and we don't know how far in the future that is. And Windows OS X is even further out.
Be careful when you highlight the high cost of Windows. They charge a lot more than Apple, but you get a lot more:
Average support lifecycle for recent Apple OS releases (bugfixes and security patches): 2-3 years. The latest OS to be abandoned is Leopard (after 2 years). Snow Leopard is expected to be abandoned soon (it's in Extended Support now), and Apple has made no commitment to how long they will continue to support it.
When you pay more for the Microsoft OS, you get a commitment to long support lifecycles, AND you know exactly how long your OS will be supported:
Mainstream Windows 7 Support (bugfixes + security fixes) = until 2015
Extended Windows 7 Support (security fixes) = until 2020.
So what Microsoft is giving you here is a CHOICE - you can choose to use your Windows install for a decade after release, and have no fear of your system being exploited by an unpatched vulnerability. In the Apple world your only "choice" is to keep upgrading, and that's not much help if your hardware is suddenly unsupported.
So, in this perspective the $200 cost of a full-on Windows 8 license is a pretty good deal (and if you want less freedom you can always buy the OEM version for $100). And for the big picture the $40 upgrade price is an absolute STEAL: for your $40 you will get bug fixes until 2018 and exploit fixes until 2023 (by that time even Mountain Lion will be long-since forgotten).
Man is the animal that laughs.
And occasionally whores for Karma.
You are confusing security patches with hotfixes. They are not the same thing.
Hotfixes address a problem (a bug where the software does not do what its supposed to do) while security patches address a vulnerability (where the software generally does what its supposed to do, but has a flaw that can be exploited).
And regarding your comments, I said MS should make hotfix rollups, which address the long download and manual patching issues you bring up. This is not the same thing as a service pack though.
If you need web hosting, you could do worse than here
No, I do not. Because you insist on confusing a service pack with a collection of security updates and hotfixes.
A service pack is *NOT* just a collection of patches. That's what a rollup is.
A service pack includes those fixes, but also includes other things and potentially new functionality.
Service packs can often change the way something works, which is why they reserve those kinds of changes for SP's so that people don't get functionality changes they don't want when applying hotfixes.
If you need web hosting, you could do worse than here
Microsoft can be so obvious when manipulating their customer base. No Windows 7 Service Pack 2 means Microsoft is warning you had better be moving to Windows 8. Microsoft doesn't want another repeat of Windows/XP. Personally I am very happy with Windows 7. My only complaint is the lack of 64-bit software developed for Windows 7. The ratio is still more than 2:1 in favor of 32-bit apps. This means that two out of every three apps are still running in 32-bit mode and not taking advantage of my Intel processor or Windows 7 OS. The reason is the cost to develop apps for 64-bit mode. It is rediculously expensive to purchase proprietary 64-bit development environments for Windows platforms.
1) start a "sexy" tech company and make a lot of money ... oh wait....
2) wait until Microsoft decides it wants to copy you and "F**KING KILL" you
3) ???
4) Profit
Well when you are running a little shop like mine having to constantly redownload the damned patches ends up hurting my bottom line and with WSUS I can just keep ALL the patches and ALL the SPs and ALL the Office and .NET patches on a share drive on this little Sempron 1.8GHz a customer traded in years ago (makes a GREAT nettop, only uses around 35w under load) and like I said, run it once a month, I usually wait until the Friday after Patch Tuesday for the WSUS Offline guys to have time to update their scripts, and its ALL done. And since its just using a WGET straight from the MSFT servers (It'll even pop up a CMD window so you can watch if you like, its all pretty standard WGET scripts calling the standard MSFT update servers) there is no risk of a MITM or getting a piece of malware stuck in there, you even get the choice of whether you want to include WGA or not in the builds.
But between WSUS Offline and Ninite for the third party stuff I've been able to cut a new build down to less than an hour and a half and even better I am needed less than 10 minutes of that hour and a half since its all unattended. I don't have to deal with slipstreaming and making new discs, don't have to deal with constantly checking to make sure I've got the latest software, frankly ALL the bullshit and hassle is done FOR me with nothing harder than "clicky clicky, go make a sammich" on my end. Its nice. Oh and if you have an older machine you need to check the third party software on just run Update Checker after you've updated the system with WSUS and it'll tell you if ANY of the third party stuff is out of date, and give you handy little links with direct downloads of the software that's out.
So like I said any questions just let me know in a later post or you can shoot me an email at the address in my UID, I usually check it once a day. And I have a feeling you'll be like me and damned glad you have WSUS in your toolbox, really takes the bullshit and pain out of dealing with Windows Updates. Kinda sad you need a third party tool to do this, but let's face it APK, MSFT first party tools have always sucked ass. if you want anything done right you pretty much HAVE to go third party, as MSFT either tries to force you to a higher SKU or simply half asses the design, they really suck at building decent tools for their OSes.
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
One more thing, if you were doing it the way I was and constantly slipstreaming a new disc DON'T, because it don't matter how damned diligent you are you'll ALWAYS miss some, or have ones that were superseded by later patches, so you just end up wasting discs.
That is why I searched all over the damned net because I KNEW there had to be a better damned way than cranking out disc after disc after disc. I used Autopatcher for awhile but it quickly started falling behind and not supporting the non popular builds like Vista and XP X64 which I still come across here at the shop, so finally I just went to the places the network geeks and shop guys hang online, all the little nooks like OSNews and NetworkInsider and the like and said "How can I do this easier?" and they turned me on to WSUS.
I can tell you I've been using it for nearly 4 years now APK and I threw all those damned slipstreamed discs away, now the ONLY time I make a slipstream is when a new SP is out so WSUS only has to update from that SP. A word of advice though, have WSUS download the SPs anyway, you never know when you'll come across a machine that hasn't been updated in forever and having those SPs already integrated sure saves a HELL of a lot of time.
So give WSUS a spin, I have no doubt when you see how clean and easy it is to use, and how it uses sensible human readable tools like .BAT and WGET scripts you can customize, you'll end up having it just download all the damned Windows Updates and let it be your "go to" WU system. BTW the MOST updates I've had to apply from WU after running WSUS? 8, and that was because they had some of the older Visual C++ runtimes that needed updating. But 8 patches is a HELL of a lot better than the 100 or so since SP1 came out, that's for damned sure! Enjoy.
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.