Slashdot Mirror
Fighting TSA Harassment of Disabled Travelers
An anonymous reader writes "A man with a neurological disorder is currently pushing the TSA to release a full list of its policies and procedures after a series of incidents in which he was harassed while trying to fly. His condition requires medical liquids and causes episodic muteness, and the TSA makes his encounters very difficult. From January: 'Boston Logan TSA conducted an illegal search of my xray-cleared documents (probably motivated either by my opting out or by my use of sign language to communicate). They refused to give me access to the pen and paper that I needed to communicate. Eventually they gave it to me, but then they took it away in direct retaliation for my using it to quote US v Davis and protest their illegal search (thereby literally depriving me of speech). They illegally detained me for about an hour on spurious, law enforcement motivated grounds (illegal under Davis, Aukai, Fofana, Bierfeldt, etc). ... TSA has refused to comply with the ADA grievance process; they are over a month beyond the statutory mandate for issuing a written determination.'"
I haven't traveled to the USA.
The exchange rate makes it a reasonable destination, but I don't want to be treated like dirt.
"I've got more toys than Teruhisa Kitahara."
Security guards that the government for some reason decided were federal agents. If this were any kind of public servant (apart from police of any kind), you could expect adherence to some kind of professional standard, but you're looking at the mall cops of the state security apparatus. A joke from top to bottom.
The importance of stories such as these, are that they open peoples eyes to a fundamental truth: The protections you think you have as an American, are only in force so long as it is convenient to those who are in power. In reality, we live in a state every bit as totalitarian as the USSR or North Korea...only that totalitarianism is selectively, and irratically enforced.
Does anyone consider that Americans are being trained with fear and paranoia to not travel to foreign lands and not become familiar or dont make human and work contacts in order to prevent a South Africa or Russia style exodus when all of the Dollars come home. With the many trillions of dollars hyperinflation as in printing presses is nearly impossible to create, see Japan, but if the dollar fails as the world currency of exchange, ie: petrodollars, the mountains of repatriated currency will probably end up creating $100k loafs of bread, need based fuel rationing, and no pizza at all unless you can barter for the cheese and tomatoes or you are in charge of rationing.
So remember that you are being constrained from making the contacts needed for escaping especially with any wealth when that day comes. They killed the M3 numbers before 2008 we have no idea what is sloshing around now. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money_supply
In the short term, don't worry about putting anyone off visiting the USA, the idiot dollar spending vacationer will still come, there is lot's to see and do. I'd be more worried about business and academic visitors, though only a small amount of revenue is lost per individual or event canceled, 20 years of finding somewhere better for that conference or supplier meeting or University to study/endow/partner with will make for interesting outcomes. Even the cattle class visitors will notice in the end.
Do NOT fuck with the man !! The man will chew you up and spit you out like the chicken gristle you are worth to it !!
TSA RULEZ !! Submit now !! And get those stinking shoes off grandma !!
Why does some idiot like yourself always make the comment "hurr durr, this isn't news for nerds".
Even if it isn't "news for nerds" (and I don't see how it isn't), it's still "stuff that matters".
Yeah, where does he get off having a neurological condition rendering him unable to speak?
That bastard.
I hope the American people will start to find out, and use their Consitutional rights to do something about it soon.
and being informed of his god given rights, no less! shoot him on the spot!
>For the avoidance of doubt, I am not suggesting that this man has anything other than a genuine neurological condition. Just sayin'
Bullshit, that is exactly what you are suggesting, and your awkward attempts at backpedaling are ugly at best.
I note that you, for example, say that there "are things in this story that sound a bit odd", while not actually providing any examples of odd-sounding things.
For the avoidance of doubt, I am suggesting that you man up and write actual accusations if you harbor them, instead of using innuendo and "Just sayin'" to try to make them without appearing to.
The TSA has had almost free range to infringe on US citizen's rights without consequence (increasingly so since the terror-pocalypse).
Publicizing these type of stories is good, but how can we best see their powers reigned in and actually enforce respecting our rights?
What do you expect from the Terrorist State Agency?
9/11 was the final battle against the terrorists. The terrorists won.
Good security is not about making clever rules. It's about dealing properly with the exceptions of those rules. Banishing liquids from airplanes is nothing more than a rule. Its level of security depends on how you deal with the situations in which you must, or at least should, allow a bottle of liquid on an airplane. If you don't have rules for that, if your personel is not trained and aware for those situations, your whole security setup is vulnerable for social engineering and it becomes nothing more than security theater.
It doesn't have to be like this. All we need to do is make sure we keep talking.
OK, well maybe its news for trolls,but there are plenty of those here. At least trolls are not as bad as the TSA.
but who gives a shit? Don't like it? Don't come here. Start your own slashdot.
Some geeks have interests reaching beyond IT. This is expression of both i.e. their geekismo and their broad interests. I do not see a problem here albeit I admit the amount of IT or broader technology related articles is rather low or late. Maybe this is sign of times. The basic technology is offshored to Zamunda and the rest is too complex to be understood by an average geek and/or discussed in a popular thread. Quite frankly the others social sites for nerds are either populated by aggressive indihviduals with agendas or are bloody boring. For the geek from old good times when we were writting applications in the house and could understood how they worked within limited time that is too bad. Considering all this I think /. is still not that bad.
I'm normally not one for coarse language and insults, but, given that the atypical neurogenic tic disorder that the individual suffers from can lead to both life-threatening asphyxia and tachycardia, I would have to say that you are a massively apathetic twat. I hope that you never become afflicted by any debilitating condition, let alone wind up in a similar situation and encounter someone insouciant who denies you access to medicine or necessary sustenance, as I doubt you'd have the fortitude to stand up to your ilk.
Fortunately, your pococurante attitude served some purpose beyond broadcasting your own inadequacies: it spurred me to pledge several thousand dollars for this guy's legal fund.
This is what I don't get about people these days.
None of you are willing to sacrifice ANYTHING or inflict ANY kind of inconvenience upon yourself to deal with the issues that need to be dealt with. You just sit there and whine and complain about everything, you make up excuses from thin air and say you've got no choice. Well, news flash, you do.
You want to get rid of the TSA?
Don't fly.
It's that simple. No, don't tell me you have to. You don't. You get enough people together and you all refuse to fly until the TSA is dismantled, and you know what'll happen? The airlines will get things changed in a hurry and the TSA will evaporate in a puff of invalid logic. It's that simple!
"Oh but it isn't and I have no choice and I need to fly and-"...
Yeah, that right there, that's the reason why the TSA still exists. You're unwilling to inconvenience yourself. None of you are. So the TSA will continue to inconvenience you instead, because they've got you by the balls (sometimes literally) and they know it. They'll continue to squeeze and squeeze, they'll expand out into the rest of the world like a cancerous tumour and then, when you find yourself in a police state and the TSA controls all major forms of travel- you'll wonder why you didn't do something sooner.
The fact that you think you have no choice is precisely what they want you to think, because that is what gives them control over you.
Cue the endless stream of "I have to fly, you're wrong, if I wish really hard I'm sure the TSA will go away all the same" replies.
What are you talking about? He already stated IAAD (I am a douche). What more from do you need?
The usa is not the number 1. Please stop thinking that just because it's the usa, it must be number 1.
Yeah he probably just went and got himself a prescription for funsies.
it spurred me to pledge several thousand dollars for this guy's legal fund.
Glad to see some people actually being willing to stand up for others, consider yourself gaining a +1 charisma from me :)
It's reined in. http://public.wsu.edu/~brians/errors/reign.html
The TSA says they are all about the war on terror.
But their actions prove they are only interested in conducting a War on Diginity.
Groping children
soaking a man in his own urine
Arresting people for wearing watches with exposed gears
Arbitrary strip-searches
Detaining people armed with flash cards
Forcing mothers to drink their own breast milk
Forcing a woman to remove her nipple ring with pliers
Requiring women to remove their bras
Requiring a woman to remove the brace on her sprained ankle and then making her walk on it to prove it was sprained
The list of abuses is into the thousands. Every once in a while they get a taste of their stupidity. But it isn't anywhere near enough.
When information is power, privacy is freedom.
Totally not surprised that it was the goons in Logan. They are the most unprofessional, ape-like dropouts that the TSA could find. I'm surprised they could read. The TSA needs to visit and observe how Heathrow or other large international airports handle security.
The attitudes of the TSA are but a symptom of a disease in the land of the so-called "free"; one that has dictated that I will never again travel to the USA for any reason, much as I would like to.
My other worry is the rate at which the USA is exporting this disease to other countries, mine included....
A regime will only survive if it both treats its citizens fairly and is also seen to be treating them fairly. Otherwise it will fail and fall - that may take decades or centuries but fall it will.
To paraphrase Orwell: "Everybody is free, except some are more free than others."
He did make the situation worse by being an obnoxious asshole. I don't work for the TSA and would give this guy a hard problem too.
There are only 1-2% psychopaths in the world - psychopaths like you. This place would be heaven if your kind were removed.
"The agriculture ministry is not in charge of Gundam" - Japanese ministry official.
Seriously. Why?
For domestic travel anyway. I've traveled with Amtrak in California & across the South, coast to coast, no complaints at all. Actually I think there are still trains between Montreal & NY. What about Windsor & Detroit, Seattle & British Columbia, etc? From what I understand only freight trains run between Mexico & the US, but I assume there was passenger train travel between Mexico & the US in the past, say the late 1800s to the 1950s?
nope.gif
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Sorry buddy, but the USA is under a limited state of emergency and the constitution is partially suspended. Until the Patriot Act gets repealed, you should walk, not fly.
Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
He's fighting against despotism so forget about getting justice except via arms.
It certainly sounds like this guy found himself quite a loophole to effectivly circumvent the 3oz liquid restriction.
If the TSA has no way of disambiguating a "tropical energy drink" from medicine and there are no medical documentation requirements plus other laws provide privacy and accessibility protections for medical conditions then anyone can use these constraints to get any soft drinks they want thru in any amounts.
I say don't be hatin on the loophole finder for expliotin. Loopholes are fair game. Certainly less morally objectional than expliots of the cherckoff group and others who have directly profited from TSA "security theatre" egrgiously wasting US taxpayer dollars.
1. Make being in cattle class more acceptable. 2. Sell value add to not be subjected to it.
Fugue for Aaron Swartz
They meay be too harsh, but disabled travellers cannot be given a free pass. We all know how devious the Muslims are, and they would just pretend to be disabled if this could get them through security next time they wanted to commit mass murder.
This is not exactly a new idea
I would beware of the donations requests.
Somebody close to me developed anomic aphasia recently, and I can certainly vouch for a recent finding of a UK health study - anybody who has suffered aphasia will vouch that it is one of the most debilitating disorders you can have. Aphasia is any condition that interferes with speech, and anomic aphasia basically is an inability to assign names to things (you can see an object and fully understand its deign/function/purpose, but you can't come up with the word to describe it and will not remember it even if told it).
Imagine being able to do anything normally, except communicate. This guy was fortunate that he could even write (and depriving him of a pen/paper is COMPLETELY INHUMANE - no different than putting a muzzle on somebody without such a condition). If you end up with damage in the language centers of your brain you're reduced to little more than gestures and a handful of words to communicate (the same regions govern ALL forms of language from speech to writing to sign language - no, there isn't an easy workaround), or pointing at pictures assuming a useful picture is there (and no, you can't spell words by pointing at the letters, or use any kind of symbolic representation of words, since that's the part of your brain that isn't working).
Most people who interact with somebody with aphasia assume they're mentally retarded, and treat them as such. (Not necessarily in an unkind manner, but rather by assuming that they need to be treated paternalistically and that they shouldn't be allowed to make decisions for themselves for their own sake.) While conditions that can cause aphasia can also cause other cognitive problems, they do not always do so. In general somebody with aphasia is no more or less intelligent than anyone else. However, they make poor advocates for themselves so they suffer quite a bit.
A recent episode was when the person I was talking about had to take a driving knowledge test. It was multiple choice, was computer based, and even included some pictures and recorded readings of all the questions and their answers that could be played repeatedly. However, it took about 10-15 attempts to pass the test (one per day per the state's rules, and spending about an hour to get through about a dozen questions). If you had asked them to give a free response to any of the questions they could have answered the questions verbally and satisfied you that they understood basic driving laws. However, somebody with anomic aphasia needs freedom to find words they can understand - it is very difficult for them to understand a fixed sentence just by listening to it over and over. Simply comparing the various choices to determine how they differ took many repetitions. In the end they passed both knowledge and driving examinations, but it was quite an arduous journey. It likely would not have been possible but for the fact that they had recovered quite a bit of their ability to communicate.
In general we as a society do not do a very good job accommodating those with neurlogical disorders.
If you really want to see surprise and shock ask to see the supervisor. The request spreads like wild fire because of the concern that someone did something wrong. You are not allowed to enter the premises of the supervisor, but rather they bring the supervisor out to your location. You can see the eyes of the TSA agents following you and trying to remember if they are the ones that did something wrong. When the supervisor arrives, tell him or her that they are doing a GOOD job and then walk away.
Interestingly enough the T ouch S omeones A ss 24/7 crews only check planes. I guess busses don't carry enough. But trains... well they can carry a tad more than a plane. Of course they couldn't check those passengers. They'd have to re-train the conductors. Instead of shouting all aboard they'd have to say "most" aboard.
Wuddooeyeno? IITYWYBMAD? Like nuts? eclecticallyincorrect.com
Dignity is only the start. It's security theatre, nothing else. Their function is to manufacture fear the same as a factory manufactures auto parts.
This is not an error or a misjudgement; causing people the maximum of harassment with the most egregious violations of legal rights and doing so with the minimum of justification is the goal. In IT terms, it's a feature, not a bug.
Anyone thinking the TSA will be reined in because of a public outcry or legal challenges is completely missing the point.
Just like the reason for the prevalence of Scientology stories, the TSA ticked off nerds by harassing people carrying electronics which aren't encased in name brand plastic, searching laptops, etc. Plus there's the whole exercise in logic regarding the need for the TSA...
I just love the TSA. They sent my CAC card back through the X-ray machine, all alone, in the little tray. It was in my wallet and had set off a wand. For those of you unfamiliar with the CAC, it's a MILITARY I.D. Card that tells people you're in the Armed Services. It has a little 'not-so-smart' metal chip and card-reader plate. Seeing my I.D. card take it's lonely journey through the x-ray machine brought tears to my eyes. Tears of laughter. And that laughter hurt them more than any indignation I might have shown.
wow looks like we've got an Internet Rich Guy on our hands
Somebody close to me developed anomic aphasia recently, and I can certainly vouch for a recent finding of a UK health study - anybody who has suffered aphasia will vouch that it is one of the most debilitating disorders you can have. Aphasia is any condition that interferes with speech, and anomic aphasia basically is an inability to assign names to things (you can see an object and fully understand its deign/function/purpose, but you can't come up with the word to describe it and will not remember it even if told it).
I assume they've figured out the "Thing that does X" trick? ie "the thing that sharpens the things you write with" for pencil sharpener.
Fortunately, your pococurante attitude served some purpose beyond broadcasting your own inadequacies: it spurred me to pledge several thousand dollars for this guy's legal fund.
So you're saying that trolling disabled people indirectly improves their quality of life by getting people to donate to them?
I've added two links to the top of the page which should convince you otherwise. You may be a doctor, but you are sure as hell not *my* doctor. I have in fact had a pretty thorough medical evaluation.
http://s.ai - http://s.ai/foia - http://s.ai/tsa/legal - https://patreon.com/saizai
I've tried to address some of the questions people raised @ http://saizai.com/tsa#FAQ If you have more, please add them as responses to this. I don't guarantee I'll answer 'em all individually, but I'll try to make sure the FAQ addresses all substantive issues raised. Cheers, Sai
http://s.ai - http://s.ai/foia - http://s.ai/tsa/legal - https://patreon.com/saizai
I, for one, try to read stories from all sources, from Bullshit Mountain as well as The Lamestream Media.
Fighting TSA?
Save America from fascist scum: Re-elect no one. Ever.
I assume they've figured out the "Thing that does X" trick? ie "the thing that sharpens the things you write with" for pencil sharpener.
Sure, that works if you know "sharpen" and "pencil." The disorder applies to the names of actions just as much as the names of things.
Shortly after their stroke the person I know had a vocabulary of probably 30 words in total. Now their verbal vocabulary is fairly decent but they still get stuck on a lot of proper names, and their reading/writing is far behind. I have set them up with browser extensions to read selected text. Oh, have I mentioned just how much time I've spent helping them cope with the latest "meme" fad on social networking. Heaven forbid that people put the text in the caption field where it could actually be read by accessibility tools!
(OP subject here)
I'm very sorry to hear about your friend. Anomic aphasia is pretty bad; having Wernicke's would be horrifying to me. I can testify that it's frustrating enough just dealing with my mutism.
FWIW, my condition is a production problem, not aphasia. I just can't make my voice work sometimes (couple times a month, lasts a few hours). I can still sign, write, type, etc just fine so long as my arm isn't physically spasming too badly or the like, and I still have full cognition / linguistic ability / etc.
I figure that as neurological disorders go, I'm pretty lucky. There are people who have it way worse than me, and your friend's one of 'em.
http://s.ai - http://s.ai/foia - http://s.ai/tsa/legal - https://patreon.com/saizai
ive got to get off my ass and try to change this
i would apologize for this but i am not directly responsible
somehow i will try to have this changed
Dammam in KSA is the most pleasurable airport of all, I can only recommend. NOT!
It may seem like a bit of security theater, but it's hardly the most excessive of TSA requirements.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Reid
See He ought to sue the persons responsible, as individualspour encourager les autres.
"My opinions are my own, and I've got *lots* of them!"
He ought to sue those persons responsible, as individuals. Going all the way to the top. IMNHO, there is more than cause for him to do so. And he certainly has standing...
A few multi-million-dollar judgements against individual TSA agents and managers would do a lot pour encourager les autres.
"My opinions are my own, and I've got *lots* of them!"
Hey Sparky...
If you don't like reading it, why don't you skip the article... SOME of us consider TSA to be a BIG problem....
THANK YOU, Edward Snowden!! Americans owe you a debt of gratitude (whether they know it or not..)
Remember the TSA idiot that got a plane diverted to punish Cat Stevens for being a Muslim? That and other stunts cost airlines a lot but they have to put up with it just like the angry parents watching their children getting groped.
is like running in the special olympics, even if you win you are still restarded.
First of all flying is not a right, if you don't want to deal the the TSA, don't fly.
Secondly this guy has a pretty rare medical condition that is sometimes assisted by having juice. But then he
doesn't want to provide any documentation about his condition to support his claim that he needs his juice citing
(among other things) HIPAA, which doesn't apply to the airport or TSA since they are not medical providers.
He doesn't want to purchase his juice from the concessions because they don't have his 'favorite' brands of juice
and also is carrying 3 liters of it.
So he expects anyone to be able to get by with liquids just by saying "I need my juice, for medical reasons, I'm not
going to tell you more."
While I think the no liquid rule is silly, it is the rule. That would defeat the purpose of it.
"pococurante"
Wow, thanks! I thought I'd never get my money's worth for my Slashdot subscription.
Actually, the accent Americans speak today is actually mush closer to real (old) English than what the English speak. Around the time when the US was just some colonies, French influence on language had become popular among the upper classes. Never really understood the the English/French love/hate thing they have going on.
That being said, I watch shows off BBC (love QI) and they refer to us as "America" all the time.
I see geeks on Slashdot who complain about political articles in the same way as athletes who say something like "I'm not a politician" when asked how they feel about competing in $oppressive_shithole. It makes me want to facepalm at their narrow-minded focus on the practical aspects of their profession at the cost of everything else.
"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
Somebody close to me developed anomic aphasia recently, and I can certainly vouch for a recent finding of a UK health study - anybody who has suffered aphasia will vouch that it is one of the most debilitating disorders you can have. Aphasia is any condition that interferes with speech, and anomic aphasia basically is an inability to assign names to things (you can see an object and fully understand its deign/function/purpose, but you can't come up with the word to describe it and will not remember it even if told it).
Imagine being able to do anything normally, except communicate. This guy was fortunate that he could even write (and depriving him of a pen/paper is COMPLETELY INHUMANE - no different than putting a muzzle on somebody without such a condition). If you end up with damage in the language centers of your brain you're reduced to little more than gestures and a handful of words to communicate (the same regions govern ALL forms of language from speech to writing to sign language - no, there isn't an easy workaround), or pointing at pictures assuming a useful picture is there (and no, you can't spell words by pointing at the letters, or use any kind of symbolic representation of words, since that's the part of your brain that isn't working).
Most people who interact with somebody with aphasia assume they're mentally retarded, and treat them as such. (Not necessarily in an unkind manner, but rather by assuming that they need to be treated paternalistically and that they shouldn't be allowed to make decisions for themselves for their own sake.) While conditions that can cause aphasia can also cause other cognitive problems, they do not always do so. In general somebody with aphasia is no more or less intelligent than anyone else. However, they make poor advocates for themselves so they suffer quite a bit.
A recent episode was when the person I was talking about had to take a driving knowledge test. It was multiple choice, was computer based, and even included some pictures and recorded readings of all the questions and their answers that could be played repeatedly. However, it took about 10-15 attempts to pass the test (one per day per the state's rules, and spending about an hour to get through about a dozen questions). If you had asked them to give a free response to any of the questions they could have answered the questions verbally and satisfied you that they understood basic driving laws. However, somebody with anomic aphasia needs freedom to find words they can understand - it is very difficult for them to understand a fixed sentence just by listening to it over and over. Simply comparing the various choices to determine how they differ took many repetitions. In the end they passed both knowledge and driving examinations, but it was quite an arduous journey. It likely would not have been possible but for the fact that they had recovered quite a bit of their ability to communicate.
In general we as a society do not do a very good job accommodating those with neurlogical disorders.
Is it from a stroke/embolism?
I think they like it, but many times when I fly in America I get my balls touched. I guess since it is free, it is a low quality ball touching, nothing like the service I get in world class cities like Zurich or Amsterdam.
The agents in question need to be arrested and jailed for federal civil rights violations.
Reminds me of the old joke:
Q: What's the best way to tell the difference between a Canadian and an American?
A: Casually comment that there isn't any.
...laura, proudly Canadian
There are not many other organizations that are more offensive to civility, decency, freedom, etc..than the TSA. Most of those are historically famous. i.e. KGB, SS, etc....
This is no stretch at all. You are being groomed people.
...I flew to Australia recently. DFW TSA was not a hassle. I got chewed out by an Auzzie customs officer for filling out my declaration in purple ink. Then, another irate officer got pissed at us stupid Americans for following the signs to the line that was indicated...he waltzed over, picked up the sign and plopped it down in the ez-pass lanes and said "You guys need to go here." Looking over at all the Auzzies and Kiwis standing in line to get into their own country (well, not the Kiwis' country, obviously, but they had to stand in line too). Then got pulled out of line, made to stand on a red line for about 15 minutes while no more than 3 dogs sniffed at our luggage, multiple passes.
Flew into LAX on stopover, no problem with TSA there either. The mm wave scanner was broken, so they just told us to pass through the metal detector. I forgot about a bottle of water in my carry-on, no big deal.
All in all, I got more grief from the Auzzies than the Americans.
One thing I did notice: People are stupid. The TSA repeatedly told us to remove EVERYTHING from our pockets. I can't tell you how many people tried to pass through without doing that, then held the fucking line up while they were put through again. I posit that there are individuals who just make trouble for themselves by not following simple directions. Yeah, I know about rebellion. Standing in line at the airport isn't the place to be rebellious.
The disabled always want to be treated equally. Well, now they can be. The harassment dispensed by the TSA at our airports is shared equally by all Americans, whether disabled or not.
I don't work for the TSA....
Yet I'm convinced you're eminently qualified should you ever feel the urge to apply...
...and would give this guy a hard problem too.
...because you're quite self-evidently a prick.
Every stinking employee, manager, supervisor and their government oversight officers need to be sent to prison for anti-american, terrorist activities.
FBI get off your fucking lazy asses, stop working for Hollywood and arrest these American Pedophilistic Rapist TSA employees.
Do your fucking job and make America safer by ridding us of this TSA Cancer.
"Eventually they gave it to me, but then they took it away in direct retaliation for my using it to quote US v Davis and protest their illegal search (thereby literally depriving me of speech)."
So you're saying that a government employeed agenta used force to supress your right to free speech?
There aint' a whole lot of wiggle room in the first amendment on this one. It would be interesting to see if others have suffered similar treatment by the TSA and file a class action suit.
If airlines instead hired private security to perform screening we wouldn't have as much legal power. But that government employees have grossly violated the limitations we the people have placed on the government, that means we get drag their ass into court and throw the book at them.
My only hope is that the courts respect the rule of law and our constitution more than a typical TSA agent. If not, then we really are fucked.
Does anyone know of a flight search engine that allows you to do this ?
While it will not specifically filter out transfers through a particular country it lets you manually select individual flight legs and you can filter via airline (there are a lot of other options too) so just do not use a US airline and you should be good. I use it regularly to get from Canada to CERN avoiding the US and the multi-transfer, large lay over option via Montreal that the Air Canada site will invariably pick out purely for their benefit so you fly on an Air Canada flight all the way to Geneva rather than use Swiss or Lufthansa in Europe. You may have to try a few options before you find one with a reasonable price but I've found it to be the most flexible of all the travel sites I've used (and in case you were wondering I am not in anyway associated with it!).
Its only downside is that you cannot book through their site - they just provide a link to a travel site like Travelocity or Expedia with the options to book the exact flight schedule. So you usually end up having to pay in US dollars even though you never go through the US!
Then why are you here posting? If you don't like it, go away.
Learn to love Alaska
I know the guy in question. He is definitely not an obnoxious asshole.
There are many situations in life where we decide that convenience is more important than principles. I tend to do this a lot, because I think I want to sail through the small stuff, so it won't hold me back from the bigger principles. More than most, Sai tends to stand up for principles, because in aggregate they do hold us back, in ways we might overlook. This makes Sai come off as a bit angular to those people who "just want to do their job", even though they don't fully grasp what their job is.
So, I do understand how someone glancing through the issue could say, "oh, he's just causing trouble". But that is not the case here.
Sorry, the link I gave before was to the list of comments received. Here's the link to the main summary with all documents and information.
Yes, I need the ...something.. you something er um something with them.
In less severe cases, sufferers will use circumlocutions successfully.
...so shut up.
I was an OOP developer for about 20 years and IT development manager for about 5 until my MS become too severe and I am now on disability.
I am now using AmTrak if I possibly ban because I HATE the TSA.
Those minimum-wage knuckle-dragging troglodytes seem to delight in picking on the disabled, the weak or the sick. (If you can't walk away fast enough, you're screwed.)
Their conduct has always been disgusting.
They were idiots when I first ran into 'em in 2002 and they were still idiots last christmas.
MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
North Korea, really?
If you were in North Korea now you wouldn't have access to the internet or the ability to vote out the "totalitarian" regime every four years. You don't like the TSA, then get a bunch of people to agree with you and change the law. A democracy allows you to do that--you fucking idiot. It doesn't allow you to do that with absolutely no effort other than whining on an internet forum.
The TSA people you deal with in the "security" line at airports are under trained, under paid, and treated with disdain by their employer. The fact that so many of them are nice is a miracle. I have the experience of being rescued from one TSA employee by another TSA employee at the Seattle airport.
If you want real security and want to be treated fairly, demand that congress, who set up the current system, give Homeland Security the money and orders to improve pay, training, and working conditions for the airport TSA people.
You have to remember that Slashdot is full of drama queens and liars, particularly when it comes to issues like the TSA. The TSA is 6 buckets of useless, no question, and due to the low pay and culture of non-accountability, there are people in it who abuse their position. There are plenty of real stories of people getting harassed for no reason, theft by agents, and all kinds of shit like that. However they are actually the minority of incidents. Unsurprisingly "guy passes through security without incident," is not a news story.
So the news on this continues, and people are working to fight against it and have it changed. Makes sense, we shouldn't put up with bullshit from our government. We should push to have things made better. Even though the problems are in the minority, that doesn't mean they are ok. Things need to be fixed.
But then you get on to Slashdot, and combine that with a culture of immaturity, US hate (including from many US citizens), and exaggeration/lying. That leads to what you see. People make up stories about how evil things are, and how they'd "never travel to the US" even though they've probably never thought about it anyhow (overseas travel is still the exception, not the rule for most people). They cry on about how horrible it is and how every person is screwed over.
No truth to it, of course, but that doesn't matter.
Your experience is fairly typical. Most people don't have much trouble. I travel to Canada once or twice a year, and inside the US occasionally, and never have had any problems. Of course I'm white and speak with a Neutral American accent (think CNN) so I'm willing to say that may help.
My experience has varied based on the person I'm talking to. Sometimes, I'll walk by the border with maybe two questions (I am a dual citizen, so I carry a passport from both countries). Other times, they ask a bunch of questions, some rather silly I guess to try and trip people up or whatever. Regardless, after a couple minutes I go on by.
Same shit with the TSA. Sometimes I find agents friendly and smiling, other times I find them looking like they hate their job. Same with Canadian security. Sometimes they seem to know what they are doing, other times they are clueless (in Canada the X-ray agent searched my bag because she didn't recognize my Sonicare toothbrush, and was rather embarrassed when she found it and realized that's what it was and that she hadn't recognized it).
Overall our experience are pretty common, and you can see that just by standing in an airport and watching people go through security. There are outliers, of course, and we should work to get rid of that. Nobody should ever be harassed (you'll never get it down to 0 but that doesn't mean we don't try). But the people on Slashdot whining and bitching they'd never go to the US are just drama queens.
Who the hell are any of you that you get to decide how we refer to ourselves. We are not USians where ever you got you got that please stop, Ask anyone in the world who the Americans are, and I promise you more then 90% will tell you what we already know. That the term Americans refers to the citizens of the United States of America. Try it for your self, go down to Venezuela and call them American. I bet they won't thank you.
Sorry, teleporters just kill you and then make a copy. A perfect, soul-less copy.
I have tinnitus caused by years of flying on small commuter aircraft every day for the last 10 years. It was determined my WCB (our version of OHSA) that the cause was the 115 db noise environment onboard Air Canada's airplanes (actually measured by a noise specialist)
I need to wear hearing protection in order to keep my condition from worsening. Air Canada refuses to acknowledge hearing protection as any thing other than stereo headsets or ear buds.
I submitted a complaint to the air travel complaints commissioner for special dispensation to wear hearing protection while flying. With full support of my doctor, hearing specialist and documentation showing I was receiving 200% daily noise limit exposure on just one flight. Typically it takes 2 to 3 connections to get where I need to go.
First thing that happened was that Air Canada retaliated to my complaint by placing me on the no fly list. Then the complaints commissioner ruled that you have no right what so ever to preserve or protect your health. And dismissed my request stating that because i sill could hear and understand 90% of the words in conversational speech, my disability wasn't pronounced enough to qualify. But I could re apply should I become functionality deaf.
I have all the documentation over a year on this case, so if there are any reporters out there who want a jucy story, you can reach me @commeng on twitter
You now live in a fascist state. Get used to it.
NO effing way! every since 911, I have travelled to much nicer countries that do NOT suspect me of terrorism, so F U USA gov, you will NEVER see my toursim euros in my life time! I rather travel to some other country, or watch hulu via proxy service, and I am NOT missing out on anything at all but the discrimination, extremely high reverse-lottery health costs, and just plain low cultural value from your 1800 to present only history. egypts is THOUSANDS! south americas? THOUSANDS! chinas? THOUSANDS of years! I would never actually get trills visiting your "back to the future" movie ride, its just plain ridiculous.
Soon we will put to death you gimps just like the nazis its simple just cut your disability payments and medicare your dead meat and they know it.
So keep making a fuss the sooner the screws will turn.
It is how police states work.
I've traveled a lot in the last 2 years (50+ different airports in multiple countries, mostly the US) and I've never had a security/border experience take more than about 10 minutes. No hassles, no problems. It's easy to smile, be friendly, and give them the answers they want to hear. Or, you can be disapproving and intolerant and get that reaction back from the person you're dealing with. Hundreds of thousands of people pass through American airports every year and you see a few dozen reports of TSA misbehavior, and it's always someone who's either being aggressive back at them, or someone in an abnormal situation who is touchy about it. My diabetic friend with an insulin pump needs a pat-down as the scanning machines may damage her pump. Always easy, never a problem. Not flying because of the TSA or the occasional nasty border guard is like not driving because of he occasional jerk on the road.
People can be jerks to each other by nature.
When man A has power over man B, he is more-likely to give-in to the temptation to abuse that power and be a jerk to man B
When man A not only has power but feels that a big powerful government will protect him from man B, he is even more tempted to be obnoxious to a man B. Man A will make man B wait, will treat man B with no respect, will violate the rights of man B, will hate and resent man B any time man B does anything that makes man A work harder.
This is why the founders of the US created a SMALL government limited to VERY FEW things AND said the citizens could "keep and bear arms" .... there are not supposed to be government workers everywhere in all aspects of our lives and those that ARE in our lives should never think they can get away with being abusive to the citizens (because no government can protect all its minions from a pissed-off population with guns). Any time a government worker interacts with a citizen, that government worker should be terrified that he/she will get blown-away for being abusive... and as a result, that government worker should never be abusive... and as a result that citizen should not get abused and therefore should not need to actually be bearing any arms at all....
My first exposure to the fact that at least some people in the Americas naturally think of themselves as American was meeting someone from Colombia who quite innocently thought of herself as being from America (and wanted to emigrate to the U.S.)
Thereafter, when speaking with USians, I speak American and refer to us as Americans, but when speaking with people of other countries, I refer to us as USian. Mistakes and hubris should never go unchallenged.
Conversely, most Americans I've met state they've often said they're from Canada when they travel.
But that probably just strengthens your point. 'American' means a whole lot more than where you're from. Which is too bad, because I think most people are decent people, terrorists or not.
Defining Statistics and Social Research
tell the moron TSA rep that whatever you have is contagious... VEEEEERRRRYYY CONTAAAAAGIOUSSSSSS!!!!!!
Is it from a stroke/embolism?
In this case, yes - a stroke. That is probably the most common cause of this problem. I'm sure there are others.
Being so close to somebody with a disorder like this (and a few other ones that are less prominent) has really helped me to appreciate just how complex the brain is, and really made me rethink just what it means to be intelligent/etc. I used to think of the brain as a black box - just a big lump of gray matter that had inputs and outputs. The reality is that various regions of the brain are remarkably specialized, and intelligence is really the sum total of hundreds or thousands of distinct mental abilities working in concert.
The difference between somebody who is completely nonfunctional and a genius isn't a line - it is an n-dimensional space within which every person is a point (at any moment in time).
Knowing anybody who has to deal with these kinds of problems really gives you an appreciation of just how fortunate we are to be able to banter about on slashdot...
I just love the TSA.
And so you should.
The minor annoyances that people seem to want to blow up [joke] into traumatizing life ruining experiences will quickly dissipate,
when the Transportation Security Administration is rebranded to a warmer fuzzier name...
To save issuing new badges etc, the same acronym TSA will be used, so we can have
Travel Safe, America
Votes? More suggestions?
Take Scissors Away
Take Stuff Away
Terrorism Support Agency
Terrorists Still Allowed
Theatrical Self Aggrandizement
The Silly Agency
The Stupid Agency
They Steal Anything
This $u(k$ @$$
Three Stooges Audition
Tin Star Alert
Totally Suspicious Agency
Tourism Sabotage Activity
Transparently Senseless Aggravation
Travellers Subjected Arbitrarily
Treasonous Sinister Axis
Tuff Stubborn Anal
Turpitude Summarily Accepted
Twisted Sexual Abusers
And also lets rebrand the Department of Homeland Security DHS:
Delusive Hollow Sham
Deplorable Harrassment of Selectees, Treatment Simply Abusive
Desperate Hopeless Situation
D!(k Head Screeners
Dirty Handed Shakedown
Doesn't Have Sanity
Doesn't Help Security
Dollars Horribly Spent
Dysfunctional Hassle Spree
Don't Have a Seizure
Cryonics - Keep cool and carry on.
Yes, I need the ...something.. you something er um something with them.
In less severe cases, sufferers will use circumlocutions successfully.
Yup, though "something" having two syllables is probably a bit ambitious, and something actually is the right word to describe, well, "something."
Right after their stroke in this case it was more like:
A: I need the house.
B: Huh?
A: The house. You know.
B: Can you explain that a little more?
A: (teeth clenching after the 4th back and fourth) You know this... I NEED the house. It is blue.
B: (grasping at straws) You mean the apple on the table over there?
A: YES! (clearly perceiving that I must be an idiot to not understand them)
And if there isn't now there will be in about ten minutes :)
I've heard rumors of folks doing that. But I never did and never met any Americans that admitted doing so.
They think your buddies will blow them up.
I'm a USian and I'm A-OK with the term USian. It's more explicit and clear.
Demand they dismantle the agency.
This is what your citizens get when you allow congress to pass the Homeland Security Act. Your country is screwed. Welcome to the new United States of Facist America.
I have a myoelectric prosthetic arm, that always holds me up at the TSA line. I have even taken it off in line and sent it through with my laptop. That doesn't help, I found. After the guy on the other side of the scanner asked me (the only dude standing in line with one hand coming out his sleeves) "Is this your arm?" (boy, it was all I could do to not point to the guy behind me and say "no, I think it's his"), he made me go stand aside while he x-rayed it again and dusted it for explosives, then dusted me for explosives, and after I'd cleared the first metal detector get scanned and groped as if I hadn't cleared the first scan. I was not amused. Another time, in Atlanta, I left the thing on when I went through the scanner. The fact that it was electric so flummoxed the TSA there that they x-rayed it with it still attached to my body from several different angles, causing me to have to stand in all sorts of strange angles to accommodate their stupidity. I told them several times I could remove it, but they insisted I keep it on. Then when the x-rays showed that the electronic hand had WIRES AND BATTERIES, they freaked out and called their boss over to have a look. It was freaking amazing that they didn't turn blue and pass out for forgetting how to breath without illustrated instructions.
Oh look another one of these posts. "Slashdot, I was wronged. The party that wronged me broke several laws and treated me in a degrading way. What should I do?"
The answer is ALWAYS to HIRE A LAWYER!
HIRE A FUCKING LAWYER! Someone broke the law, you need a lawyer if you want to take any action against them. If they're violating deadlines and laws regarding interactions with people with disabilities then you probably have a good legal case lined up. However, if you sit on your ass then your opportunity is going to disappear. You need to hire a lawyer and act fast.
-1 disagree is not a modifier for a reason. -1 troll, flaimbait, redundant, overrated are NOT acceptable substitutes.
Thanks. I was talking to them earlier and they were both horrified to hear about your story and appreciative of your concern.
I've actually been through airport security with them a few times. Each time I get rather nervous about how it would go. We actually went through security only a few months after the stroke and I was concerned that we'd get separated and the inability to communicate would get interpreted as non-cooperativeness. Fortunately the agents we dealt with handled things reasonably well, but I did feel like we were rolling the dice even attempting to go through security.
I wish you luck with your suit. There have been a few times when I've felt like I'd end up involved in some kind of ADA lawsuit but fortunately it hasn't happened. I have the greatest respect for those who are doing what they can to make life easier for others!
Don't get too discouraged by some of the other comments around here. It is amazing how many people feel that they can diagnose a medical condition by reading a news article, or for that matter watching somebody get out of their car in a handicapped parking spot.
Which United States? Mexico?
Perhaps you are over 45 and from Brazil? Or over 60 and from Venezuela?
In México we don't call them "Americans". We call them "Gringos". Everybody in México knows "Gringo" is somebody from the United States of America.
Perhaps they don't want to admit it to fellow countrymen?
I know people personally who did it.
When Obama was in Oslo, US citizens with residency in Norway were interviewed in a pub, talking about it being a good day to be Murican; several joined in when our topic was on the table, stating that they had lied about their citizenship in situations where it would be socially embarrassing to admit it.
Defining Statistics and Social Research
Yep, sounds that way to me!