Chinese Firm Approved To Raise World's Tallest Building In 90 Days

kkleiner writes "The long anticipated Chinese construction project called Sky City, a 220-story building that can house 30,000 people, has finally received approval from the central government to break ground. The firm Broad Sustainable Building previously constructed a prefab 30-story building in 15 days, but for Sky City, they have an even more aggressive schedule: 90 days to build 2,750 feet into the air. Once completed, the building will be a place for people to both live and work, with recreational facilities, theaters, a school, and a hospital all within the structure."

Comments

it's going to fail

[Anonymous Coward]

I feel sorry for people who will die inside of collapsed building. I know commies, I know how they work...

Re:it's going to fail

[Anonymous Coward]

Since it is such a high-profile building, I suggest they put the government into it. Into the highest stories, of course, something below that would not do. And of course the government officials also get to live in the building, in the stories just below the government offices.

Re:it's going to fail

[Anonymous Coward]

Nah. Fill the whole damn building with them. The lower floors will be just as lethal whether this pancakes, shears, or tips over.

I am not one to wish ill on anyone, but the Chinese will have this one coming to them. Their lust for speed and the need to "wow the world with superior Chinese methodology" will ultimately fall around their ears. They may be building cities and building at break-neck speed, but a lot of their infrastructure is rotten to the core. My prediction? The failure of their bullet train was just a glimpse of the future. I see a lot more failure from their corrupt business practices. Couple this with the social unrest of the one-child per family, resulting in 30 million unmarried men, and you have the fodder stimulating a revolution.

Re:it's going to fail

[ocamsrazor]

There are two kinds of failure. The failure of ambitious dreams that maybe we'll see in china. And the never ending failure of the miserable cynical bastards in the west who never open their mouths but to whine about how terrible everything is. People so fundamentally opposed to a better world tomorrow that the highest political ambition is austerity (both economic and environmental).

You want to talk about rotten infrastructure and social unrest? Let's see where another ten years of politicians "saving money" get's you.

Re:it's going to fail

[daem0n1x]

I'm more sorry for all the 1 375 Chinese that will have their feet severed to

build 2,750 feet into the air

Re:it's going to fail

[Anonymous Coward]

Is it really cynical to say "Look, corner cutting in the name of big name projects is well documented. I worry this will end very poorly."?

Or are you just trying to make yourself feel superior?

Re: it's going to fail

[Anonymous Coward]

"Look, corner cutting in the name of big name projects is well documented. I worry this will end very poorly."?

Corner cutting is exactly how this thing could succeed! It could be a cylinder!

Re:it's going to fail

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm more sorry for all the 1 375 Chinese that will have their feet severed to

build 2,750 feet into the air

I see what you did there.

Re:it's going to fail

[oobayly]

Couple this with the social unrest of the one-child per family, resulting in 30 million unmarried men [blogspot.com], and you have the fodder stimulating a revolution.

How is the imbalance caused by the one-child per family policy? It was caused by the selective abortion by short-sighted people who thought that having an unmarried male heir is better than a married female heir (either that or they thought that they were the only people with the genius idea of making sure they'd have a son)

Other points - spot on.

Re:it's going to fail

[Anonymous Coward]

You still think China is a communist nation de facto and not just in name only? Awww that's *adorable*

Re:it's going to fail

[Anonymous Coward]

"I am not one to wish ill on anyone, but the Americans will have this one coming to them. Their lust for speed and the need to "wow the world with superior US methodology" will ultimately fall around their ears."

See how silly and downright offensive it sounds now?

Re:it's going to fail

[ebno-10db]

You still think China is a communist nation de facto and not just in name only?

What matters is that China still has an authoritarian non-representative government. Their economic system is another issue. What they choose to call their political or economic systems is utterly unimportant.

Re:it's going to fail

[Anonymous Coward]

And how right it sounds?

Re:it's going to fail

[slackware 3.6]

How is the imbalance caused by the one-child per family policy?
How do you carry on your family name with a female heir? If you could have two kids you could have a girl and still have a chance at a boy with your next kid. Maybe you would get lucky and have a boy the second time. A member of one of our local ethnic groups was complaining to me how he has no kids just 8 daughters and when he dies his family is gone since he is the last male in his family. You forget not everyone has your cultural values.

Re:it's going to fail

[Anonymous Coward]

No, no I don't. When is the last time there was any speed in any major project in the U.S? One World Trade Center has taken 6 years and the interior won't be completed until late this year/early next year. Doing things right is always better than fast. There is no offense to be taken. The fact is the construction industry in China is akin to the Wild West(East?) of the late 1800s in the U.S. Then it was mostly wood and brick, very basic. Today in China it is concrete with very little architectural design effort put forth to either the exterior or interior. We won't even get started on the construction safety practices. It is was it is. In the end my prediction is it will be a very tall concrete/steel structure. It will basically be an oversized Sears Tower(Willis Tower) by the looks of it. Design was an afterthought for the Sears Tower as well.

Re: it's going to fail

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes having a choice between Obama and Bush is much much better! China is a 1 party state, the USA is a "two" party state where both parties basically do exactly the same thing.

Re:it's going to fail

[Anonymous Coward]

Duh. With such a big difference in male/female numbers in china i'm sure they will eventually figure out the girls could actually keep their own names, and make the boys change theirs. If they don't change, let them end their line alone. I'm sure there will be enough men who agree to take another name to get laid.

Other than that, 30 million men without he possibility to find a companion has pretty much always resulted in a chaos and wars.

Re:it's going to fail

[Anonymous Coward]

I think the current chinese system is one of a kind. I'm pretty certain they don't have a family line heritage system. It's also not just one tyrannical leader. It's almost as if they just skipped one step ahead of US, and only have one party, where US still has two (no, them inor parties don't count here).

Re:it's going to fail

[GameboyRMH]

Yes if they'd only split their Communist Party into red and blue teams with minor ideological differences, and give lip service to the people's needs while clearly indicating that they give no fucks through their actions, they could be brought up to US standards of freedom and democracy.

Re: it's going to fail

[drinkypoo]

Yes having a choice between Obama and Bush is much much better! China is a 1 party state, the USA is a "two" party state where both parties basically do exactly the same thing.

Your point is well taken, but so far there's still worlds of difference between China and the USA.

Re:it's going to fail

[Anonymous Coward]

China needs cheap living solutions in mass. I wonder what the cost averages to, how much resources it saves, and how durable it is. How well will it withstand earthquakes? Are they cutting any corners? I guess I hope it's safe. I've heard that it gets inefficient to build so far up at some point, but I suppose if it can be done well I'm all for it. Is this in part a solution to crowding? Is that part of the sell here? If so, I wonder would Buckminster Fuller would think?

Re:it's going to fail

[HaZardman27]

How do you carry on your family name with a female heir?

By not supporting archaic social customs that suggest males are superior to females and are the only way to extend your family legacy.

You forget not everyone has your cultural values

Right, some of us believe in equality.

Re:it's going to fail

[jafiwam]

Couple this with the social unrest of the one-child per family, resulting in 30 million unmarried men, and you have the fodder stimulating a revolution.

Revolution, or war with Taiwan / US.

As soon as they figure out how to move a couple million guys across the water fast. Look out.

Re:it's going to fail

[interkin3tic]

You say that, but it's been less than ten years since we finished sequencing the human genome, and we currently have a robot on Mars. Yes, there are forces in the West pushing for overseas corporations and CEOs to have a few million dollars more even if it means shutting down NASA. Yes they've been making some progress in cutting back OUR progress. And yes, I wish we would build killer robots to tear them limb from limb. But they're not winning. And China has those people too.

Re:it's going to fail

[sdsucks]

Eh? "never ending failure of the miserable cynical bastards in the west"?

What sort of alter reality / history is this?

Re: it's going to fail

[ColdWetDog]

That's right. They have better food.

Although they're coming down to our level.

KFC! KFC! KFC!

Re:it's going to fail

[Anonymous Coward]

Hmm, you are oversimplifying, but it is a common plague.

If you read people like Schor, who happened to predict a whole lot of what is happening right now, you will note that ambition is not that of austerity, but of plenitude.

Granted, you may be speaking strictly of political ambitions.

Re:it's going to fail

[ArcadeMan]

Or 15 million gay couples. That would help solve a tiny percentage of their overpopulation.

Re: it's going to fail

[Adriax]

But without corners in the cardinal directions, how will they properly control the Feng Shui of the place?
They need a life sized iron statue of a previous emperor in eastern corner with a 1m wide deep red carpeted pathway surrounded by broad leaf potted plants with an exit out a SW door to direct the flow of "Get blown up by meteors" energy out of the building.

A cylinder would leak Strength energies all over the place, making the obviously superior Chinese concrete as weak and brittle as worthless non-Chinese concrete and dooming it to fail like any other non-Chinese product. Just ask any government official.

Re:it's going to fail

[Merk42]

How do you carry on your family name with a female heir?

By not supporting archaic social customs that suggest males are superior to females and are the only way to extend your family legacy.

So then the family with the Male heir loses out?

Hyphenate? Sure that's sustainable, generations later:
"Mr. I-have-a-long-hypenated-name-because-how-dare-one-gender-take-another's-name"

Re:it's going to fail

[NoImNotNineVolt]

How do you carry on your family name with a female heir?

By making sure your daughter marries another Lee?
-1, Racist

Re:it's going to fail

[DriveDog]

"But they're not winning."

I'd love to believe that. But it's difficult to ignore the cynicism resulting from a lifetime of observation of the actual world.

Re:it's going to fail

[meerling]

It's not a suggestion that male names are superior, it's a means to strengthen familial bonds.
A primary result (intended or otherwise) of couples has always been reproduction.
The lineage of the Mother is never in doubt.
If the father has his name attached to said resulting offspring, and the assurances of the Mother that the child is his, he will usually accept that it is and help support both the child and the mother. Otherwise, there is a much lower rate of acceptance and fathers (or possible fathers) will leave them claiming it's another males child.
Strangely enough, this has been studied. I read a science article on it about a month or two ago.
No, I am not a sociologist or anything, but the info is out there, you just have to look for it.

Re:it's going to fail

[clarkkent09]

The progress does not happen by politicians spending money but by private entrepreneurs having the freedom from oppressive taxation and regulation to take risks and innovate. The stagnation in the west is happening not because of austerity programs by the government but because of the excessive obsession with safety and fear of taking risks. The Oakland bridge eastern span replacement cost was $6 billion and took 11 years. Chinese put up bigger and better bridges than that for 2 years and $300 million.

Re: it's going to fail

[clarkkent09]

You only have a choice between Obama and Bush at the end of a very long and involved process of vetting and primaries that is reasonably democratic, although many people do not participate out of laziness and ignorance. It would be ridiculous to have 50 presidential candidates in the general election. You start with 50 but they get narrowed down to 2. I would personally prefer 3 but not more than that.

Re:it's going to fail

[Anonymous Coward]

Not all of us see things as shallow and vainly as you do. I know it is not about saving money and that the problems are much deeper and have more depth than "who particularly is in office". No accountability, greed, corporate corruption, a caste system that no one is willing to admit. Unfair hiring practices. Individuals living above their means. Heck the banks have a lot of incentive to give out loans and mortgages that my fail because they need to make a profit "now" and grow faster than the other banks etc...

This short paragraph above is just a tiny slice of what can be said. No one is willing to say it all and the ones that will go into great detail (conspiracy theorists) get flamed. The people with the capability to filter out the non-factual information and put it all together wont. Because its tantamount to committing suicide. And they are very happy making 90,000 plus a year.

Than we have a whole nother segment of society that thinks everyone needs credentials and certifications etc...

No our society and culture is fucked. We need to go back to the Bushido code + the freedom that anarchy brings and fix things.

Either that or just buck it up and make the Peacekeeper force that is depicted in "Farscape". I vote for the former. My resume is shit.

Re:it's going to fail

[CanHasDIY]

Hyphenate? Sure that's sustainable, generations later:
  "Mr. I-have-a-long-hypenated-name-because-how-dare-one-gender-take-another's-name"

You don't know any middle eastern people, do you?

Re:it's going to fail

[cheesybagel]

They are working on it. The scale of their naval ramp-up is pretty insane.

Re: it's going to fail

[aristotle-dude]

You only have a choice between Obama and Bush at the end of a very long and involved process of vetting and primaries that is reasonably democratic, although many people do not participate out of laziness and ignorance. It would be ridiculous to have 50 presidential candidates in the general election. You start with 50 but they get narrowed down to 2. I would personally prefer 3 but not more than that.

You are completely missing the point. Your primary system enforces a two party system. You can only declare yourself as a Republican, Democrat or Independent full stop.

Instead of primaries, other countries elect their party leaders at political conventions. The public "election" is held later which I think is a more sensible system. I also think it is a bit idiotic that state officials are involved in the federal election and that you elect everyone in one big election night.

In Canada, we have separate election schedules for provincial and federal elections, we have multiple parties running and elections are handled by independent non-partisan organizations for the provincial and federal elections. For the Federal election, there is Elections Canada and for the Provincial election, there is an elections . We do not use voting machines but rather a simple paper ballot where you mark and X by the candidate you want to represent your riding.

Re:it's going to fail

[HaZardman27]

All of that has been made irrelevant by paternity tests.

Re: it's going to fail

[peragrin]

You do realize china has built entire cities that sit unused and falling apart. China regularly fails to understand people and builds infrastructure first and then tries to find people to use it.

Re: it's going to fail

[clarkkent09]

You are completely missing the point. Your primary system enforces a two party system. You can only declare yourself as a Republican, Democrat or Independent full stop
 
Not true. you can register as a Libertarian, or a member of any party. There is no legal reason why a third party cannot be more successful in the US. It is a different issue that our political and media elites who set the political agenda have been convinced that a two party system is more stable and it is the problem for the Libertarians and other parties to convince them otherwise. Btw, I find it amusing that Canadians always express such exaggerated confidence in the fundamentally undemocratic first-past-the-post political system they inherited from UK. Inferiority complex?

Re:it's going to fail

[Merk42]

So instead of hyphenating the parents, we put in both the parent's first names AND the last name as well? (remember the original discussion was about the females 'losing' their name, something not brought up in the Arab Family Naming Convention)
So:
"Mr. John son Mary and Steve who are the son and daughter of Bob and Betty and Jack and Wendy respectively"
Yes much better

Re:it's going to fail

[interkin3tic]

I'll point again to the human genome project and the mars rovers as clear examples of how we are winning overall. Look at the dark ages, or the taliban rule in Afghanistan for examples of when "they" win. It could be much better, but the forces of ignorance and greed aren't winning.

Re:it's going to fail

[Anonymous Coward]

Sounds like you need to move. It's all sunshine and rainbows in MY part of the West. Gonna go kick it by my pool now. cu

Re:it's going to fail

[Anonymous Coward]

One of my favorite things I saw while visiting china was election posters.

What exactly is an "election" for when there is only one party anyhow?

Re: it's going to fail

[painandgreed]

You are completely missing the point. Your primary system enforces a two party system. You can only declare yourself as a Republican, Democrat or Independent full stop.

Not quite that simple. Primaries are run by the parties. Each party has their own systems for each state. Some are primaries, and some are a caucus. Each state has different laws dealing with how these are handled. Some let them do their thing, some bind everything together at the same time. IIRC, most that deal with it at the state level are not tied to the two parties but to the amount of votes that any given party got the prior year. The realpolitik is that we have a two party system that makes it extremely hard for any other party to come in (but this has happened and does happen about every 20 years with one of the old main parties dying about every hundred) but in reality, there are many parties, divided up between at least fifty state organizations each all operating under different state laws.

Re: it's going to fail

[cowscows]

There's no legal reason, but there's a big practical reason, and it's the way the presidential election works. Since it's one eelction, winner takes all, you get that "if I don't vote for one of the two main parties, I'm just throwing my vote away" feel.

The structure of the elections directly leads to a two-party system.

Re:it's going to fail

[CanHasDIY]

Look, you implied that combining surnames was not sustainable long term; so, I presented an example of a culture in which combining surnames has been sustainable for a long time.

Maybe it would work for western nations, maybe it wouldn't, but that's non sequitur in regard to my response.

Re:it's going to fail

[Anonymous Coward]

Let's see where another ten years of politicians "saving money" get's you.

Even more idiots who don't know what an apostrophe is for?

Re: it's going to fail

[ebno-10db]

Instead of primaries, other countries elect their party leaders at political conventions ... which I think is a more sensible system.

Why is it more sensible? The US used to use that system, but it was abandoned because in practice it meant that candidates were chosen by party bosses. Our primary/caucus system is far from perfect (e.g. why does Iowa go first?) but it's still an improvement because members of a party have some say in who the candidates will be,

I also think it is a bit idiotic that ... you elect everyone in one big election night.

Why? To me it's a convenience to only go to the polls once. What advantage is there to having separate election days?

We do not use voting machines but rather a simple paper ballot where you mark ...

You mean like I do when I vote?

Re: it's going to fail

[ebno-10db]

Your point is well taken, but so far there's still worlds of difference between China and the USA.

Of course you're right. Of course you probably also anticipated the kind of pseudo-sophisticated adolescent nihilist responses you got so many of.

Re: it's going to fail

[aristotle-dude]

You are completely missing the point. Your primary system enforces a two party system. You can only declare yourself as a Republican, Democrat or Independent full stop.

Not quite that simple. Primaries are run by the parties. Each party has their own systems for each state. Some are primaries, and some are a caucus. Each state has different laws dealing with how these are handled. Some let them do their thing, some bind everything together at the same time. IIRC, most that deal with it at the state level are not tied to the two parties but to the amount of votes that any given party got the prior year. The realpolitik is that we have a two party system that makes it extremely hard for any other party to come in (but this has happened and does happen about every 20 years with one of the old main parties dying about every hundred) but in reality, there are many parties, divided up between at least fifty state organizations each all operating under different state laws.

There is your problem right there. The state laws should play no part in a FEDERAL election of the US president, US senate or US congress. The state government should have no say in how the US election is handled there. You should have an independent agency handling the US election and independent agencies in each state handling state elections.

Look at what happened in florida in previous elections, the state government interfered with the US presidential election. They should have no involvement at all.

That is not to say that state parties could not canvas/help their federal candidate counterparts but there should be some clear separation between the State government and the US election process.

Re:it's going to fail

[flayzernax]

There are actually large empty towns in China because the wealth is actually disproportionate there and there are rich people who own property just because that is the only way to gain wealth. Money gets taken. But they can have their empty towns. Communism fail.

https://www.google.com/search?q=empty+chinese+towns&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=rnmxUbHtDbGg4AOM7IHABA&ved=0CCoQsAQ&biw=1201&bih=814

http://www.time.com/time/photogallery/0,29307,1975397_2094492,00.html

http://www.news.com.au/business/china-building-mega-cities-but-they-remain-empty-sparking-fears-of-housing-bubble-burst/story-e6frfm1i-1226611169281

So you guys might not have to worry. People may never inhabit this structure. It might be purely for vanity.

Re:it's going to fail

[flayzernax]

A bit more info: These construction projects are between 20 and 30% of the economy and the people paying for these properties to be built could loose big time if they don't get filled. Poor people are being moved into them (for example Ordos, Inner Mongolia) but they cannot afford the equivalent 100,000 USD price. Ordos is supposed to be able to house 1 million people.

Re:it's going to fail

[oobayly]

There's also the Spanish method. Take a friend of mine from university who had the best name I ever heard: Fernando Hernandez Fernandez Hernandez. Sounds great when you say it quickly. Anyway, I digress.

He explained that the children take three family names: The father's first family name, then the mother's first family name, and then the father's second family name.

So Fernando's father was ? Hernandez Hernandez ?, and his mother was ? Fernandez ? ?

There you go, a western culture that manages the job pretty well.

Re:it's going to fail

[oobayly]

-1, Racist

I'd mod that down to turn it into +1, Funny. It's like making fun of English people called Smith, and Germans called Mayer. I once saw an advertisement in a London bus (I can't remember who paid for it, maybe the humane society). It read "If you can't make a joke about it, it can't be taken seriously".

Re: it's going to fail

[voice_of_all_reason]

His cultural values are bad and he should feel bad

Re:it's going to fail

[metaforest]

> 30 million unmarried men

Or, ya know, externalize the surplus... Start some wars.

Look at the current gender demographics of Russia for an example of what happens to the ratios after 50+ years of conscription into un-winable, and under supported military conflicts.

Sucks to be the rest of the world if China pursues such an approach. They can throw an insane amount of 'man-power' at just about anything now... I'm sure that makes their neighbors kind of nervous.

Re: it's going to fail

[RockDoctor]

how will they properly control the Feng Shui of the place?

They don't need to - they sold that bucket of horse shit to some idiot in California several years ago.

And it takes 100 days to fix a clock?

[Anonymous Coward]

Hey, that is 10 days less than it takes BBC to fix a clock on their homepage :)

Re:And it takes 100 days to fix a clock?

[OhANameWhatName]

Well that depends on how you calculate time doesn't it?

Re:And it takes 100 days to fix a clock?

[telchine]

Well that depends on how you calculate time doesn't it?

Time is a like a series of tubes, the more tubes you have, the faster time flows.

Re:And it takes 100 days to fix a clock?

[c0lo]

Hey, that is 10 days less than it takes BBC to fix a clock on their homepage :)

That's relative. Clearly, the Chinese economy is moving faster that UK's.

Re: And it takes 100 days to fix a clock?

[Anonymous Coward]

Moving for the sake of movement, doesn't mean it's a good thing. This is not the publicity cliche. Next title in 180 days... "Worlds tallest building falls over, ones of people hurt". Yes this is a reference to the Chinese ghost cities of build it and no one will come.

Re:And it takes 100 days to fix a clock?

[Anonymous Coward]

No, BBC requires 90 "working days" while this building only requires 90 days.

Re: And it takes 100 days to fix a clock?

[c0lo]

Moving for the sake of movement, doesn't mean it's a good thing.

Bzzzt... wrong answer... the correct way to account for the difference of "100 staff x (UK) imperial days" into "90 days x Chinese units of length" is by using Lorentz transformation... speed needs to be taken into account, irrespective if it's good or bad.

Re:And it takes 100 days to fix a clock?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes but this is different. See the building already finished, They just need to raise it to a vertical position.

Re:And it takes 100 days to fix a clock?

[Anonymous Coward]

Fair to say they're probably throwing a bit more than a couple of developers at the problem.

I'd expect AT LEAST a dedicated coffee fetcher.

Re:And it takes 100 days to fix a clock?

[dj245]

Well that depends on how you calculate time doesn't it?

I know this is supposed to be funny, but if you change the definition of "completed" to "as large as it is going to get", then the calculation of time gets a lot shorter.

If you think this is ridiculous, just look at ship construction. A ship is "completed" when it is launched, but the time required for fitting the equipment and commissioning can take years.

Re:And it takes 100 days to fix a clock?

[Anonymous Coward]

Time is an illusion, BBC time doubly so.

Re:And it takes 100 days to fix a clock?

[Anonymous Coward]

Nono, the more tubes you have the more time flows. Faster time flow requires wider individual tubes, assuming equal time tube construction. Having many tubes only guarantees lots of time per time.

Re:And it takes 100 days to fix a clock?

[brian0918]

But the tubes need to be in parallel, not in series!

Re:And it takes 100 days to fix a clock?

[Anonymous Coward]

I thought time was like four balls on a cliff?

Re:And it takes 100 days to fix a clock?

[Known Nutter]

Well that depends on how you calculate time doesn't it?

Time is an illusion. Lunchtime doubly so.

Re:And it takes 100 days to fix a clock?

[Penguinisto]

Well that depends on how you calculate time doesn't it?

Time is a like a series of tubes, the more tubes you have, the faster time flows.

Well, that's true until you have a sufficiently large bit o' gravity nearby - then the tubes start clogging up like an old man's arteries.

Re:And it takes 100 days to fix a clock?

[GameboyRMH]

Much like the exhaust headers on an engine! Get a 4-2-1 equal length time manifold and you'll really be clockin'!

Re:And it takes 100 days to fix a clock?

[ArcadeMan]

People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but *actually* from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint - it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly... time-y wimey... stuff. - The Doctor

Re:And it takes 100 days to fix a clock?

[ArcadeMan]

You can't really compare the two. All days are working days in China.

Re:And it takes 100 days to fix a clock?

[Existential Wombat]

People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but *actually* from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint - it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly... time-y wimey... stuff.

Re:And it takes 100 days to fix a clock?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, but the BEEB can't use fast-setting Quickcrete from the Home Depot to fix their clock!

Re:And it takes 100 days to fix a clock?

[Phoghat]

Time is an illusion, BBC time doubly so.

Reality itself is an illusion, it's just a story the mind tells itself

90 days to raise...

[ctrl-alt-canc]

...a few seconds to collapse!

Re:90 days to raise...

[abhisri]

It is supposed to explode first, I think.

http://www.fiveeightforums.com/threads/list-of-things-in-china-that-explode.90930/

Re: 90 days to raise...

[Anonymous Coward]

Reminds me of the Shanghai building collapse where a whole building fell over on its side.

http://blogs.wsj.com/chinarealtime/2009/06/29/shanghai-building-collapses-nearly-intact/

Re:90 days to raise...

[Christian Smith]

...a few seconds to collapse!

Prefab blocks, erected on site, what could possibly go wrong?

Re:90 days to raise...

[mrbester]

Sounds about as safe as nailing cables into the ice walls on Hoth.

Re: 90 days to raise...

[trum4n]

This is exactly what i'm worried will happen. The building itself is well built from what i can see, but you can't prefab a foundation, and a real foundation takes time.

Re:90 days to raise...

[AmiMoJo]

Lots of American shit fell down too. Lots of European shit as well. China just gets more publicity because the narrative is that everything made in China is a cheap knock-off of some western product that inevitably crashes and burns.

China has a poor safety record. So does everyone else, at least historically. That's one of the reasons why they call them developing economies.

Re:90 days to raise...

[MightyYar]

There is a difference between a building collapsing because it was the first of it's kind 100 years ago and a building collapsing because the inspector was paid off by the guy selling substandard cement, 100 years after the materials and architectural engineering have been worked out. There were some high-profile crane collapses in Manhattan in the past few years that demonstrate stupidity and corruption if you want a US example.

Re: 90 days to raise...

[ebno-10db]

The building itself is well built from what i can see, but you can't prefab a foundation, and a real foundation takes time.

IANASE (I am not a structural engineer) but there is serious concern about prefab for something this height. FTA:

Head of Structures for WSP Middle East, Bart Leclercq ... likes the idea of prefabrication but says concrete poured onsite in tall buildings provides stiffness, and the time it takes concrete to cure is non-negotiable. He thinks the five-year mark set by the Burj Khalifa is about as good as it gets with current techniques and technologies.

I'd be very interested to hear from anyone here who has expertise in concrete.

Re: 90 days to raise...

[trum4n]

Prefab sections can be very strong, and as long as the connections are strong, then the building will stand. But i do agree, the concrete curing will be the main issue.

Re:90 days to raise...

[Anonymous Coward]

The Xiàngmù will never collapse, even if everyone wants it to!

Re: 90 days to raise...

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm betting its more raw steel than concrete. Higher up you get, less concrete you can use, it gets heavy you see and everything below needs to support everything that is up. So build a fully concrete sky scraper and you end up with pyramid of Giza.
There are no limits to prefabricating steel structures.
Reason why such things have not been standard practices in the past is not that's its physically impossible, the problem is engineering software solutions. Limits are not just what software in the past could not do, but the problem is part libraries. To fully define a structure in software, you need an accurate model of every part.
What many civil engineers still do is draw walls, supports, and exterior all in 2D. You cannot design a Lego skyscraper like that. You need to have everything in your design, from infrastructure and interior finish down to possibly what kind of carpet you will have. Then you can divide and conquer it down to individual modules and concentrate on how they fit together. Once you have designed every little detail you can prefab and then just plug and play on construction site. Today we finally have software solutions that enable this. But old design practices are only just starting to die out.
Same thing in every other engineering field, old designs take an awful long to die out, and until they do they get reused. In electronics you still have plenty of parts where you can see from datasheet that it was once designed with pen and paper. Obviously you cant get a 3D model of such parts and using such parts you cannot take full advantage of possibilities that modern software solutions offer.

Re: 90 days to raise...

[ColdWetDog]

But I thought they poured the concrete off site (while making the pre fab sections). Too lazy to look it up, though.

Anyway, it doesn't have to be maximally strong - it just has to be strong enough. If you build enough redundancy in the system you can let it cure as the building ages.

Re:90 days to raise...

[ColdWetDog]

And I suspect that this project will have the building inspectors (and everyone else) closely monitored. They're aware of their issues, the Chinese are hardly stupid. It's like the Soviet Hero projects - they (usually) got funded well. Better materials. Better engineers. Most of their Hero stuff worked. The rest of the country, not so much.

Re: 90 days to raise...

[trum4n]

The concrete cure we are worried about is in the foundation, which must be poured on site, as far as we know. 28 days is the minimum cure time, usually more for structures this big.

Re: 90 days to raise...

[Anonymous Coward]

As I understand it, a concrete foundation needs to be poured onsite on top of stable firm soil. Depending on the soil, this can sometimes make for oddly shaped foundations under their surface.

Re: 90 days to raise...

[ArcadeMan]

And I'd be very interested in concrete arguments from experts.

Re: 90 days to raise...

[Anonymous Coward]

IAAASE (I actually AM a structural engineer) and I am definitely concerned. Concrete will have to be poured on site, since there will need to be a homogenous shear force resistance from the top of this thing all the way down to the bottom. If the sections were simply bolted together, then 200+ vertical slip-critical connections is going to give you a heck of a wobble.

Poured reinforced concrete is a composite connection, the steel acting to counter the moment effects and tension forces in concrete.

However, I have not seen all of the plans for this thing, and if they were to assemble, say, 20 storeys with formworks for shear assemblies, then poured a twenty story concrete lift on site, waited three days to achieve 75% curing strength, then kept going with 20 more storeys, this could work. It's not impossible, but there's a lot of problems that, while SOLVABLE, would never get approval in North America due to unacceptable levels of risk.

Re:90 days to raise...

[MightyYar]

Like I said, it's not about stupidity - it's all about corruption. I am certain that the Chinese are "smart" enough to build a tall building safely... they are people, after all. That, and the knowledge is already available to anyone who wants it.

My concern is that they will be depending on someone scaring the corruption out of the system for this project. That is why I used the Manhattan crane example... NYC is fairly corrupt for a US city, but it absolutely pales in comparison to China.

Re:90 days to raise...

[dcw3]

Not a direct response to your post, but it made me curious so a quick search showed....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_structural_failures_and_collapses

Re:90 days to raise...

[MightyYar]

That list is... interesting! Obviously incomplete and some really obvious omissions (earthquakes?) , yet they have the recent building collapse of a building under demolition in Philly! Anyway, cool link, thanks...

Re: 90 days to raise...

[R3d M3rcury]

Then instead of having the world's tallest building, they'll have the world's longest building.

It's win-win!

Re:90 days to raise...

[Anonymous Coward]

Agreed,

Too often slashdot is full of very biased anti-chinese views.

One reads the comments and its almost like everyone forgets their own history. They want to compare some 2013 "First world country" with 2013 China.

How would 1950 - 1956 USA compare with Mao China?

USA - Report your neighbour is a communist and they get a in-depth investigation.
China - Report your neighbour is not a communist and they get a in-depth investigation.

As for human rights... Its almost like our past is perfect (no child labour/human rights issues) in any first world nation. Weird as this isnt what history states....

Re: 90 days to raise...

[skovnymfe]

China doesn't exactly have a reputation for being safe, so I'm sure they'll jump through all the hoops and punch holes where there are no hoops to jump through.

Re: 90 days to raise...

[ebno-10db]

Very informative. Thank you.

Larry Niven's Oath of Fealty

[Bruce66423]

talks about that sort of building...

Re:Larry Niven's Oath of Fealty

[YuppieScum]

"Arcology" is the term of reference...

Re:Larry Niven's Oath of Fealty

[sanman2]

The Vertropolis is born!

Re:Larry Niven's Oath of Fealty

[Anonymous Coward]

Judge Dredd did it first.

Re:Larry Niven's Oath of Fealty

[JasterBobaMereel]

90 days is the construction time

Add to that the time to plan and prefabricate and you end up with a time similar to a conventional building ...

But it is cheaper to build (unless transportation costs are excessive)

Re:Larry Niven's Oath of Fealty

[dave420]

In total it takes about 7 months. That is still a lot faster than building traditionally. Moving the fabrication to a factory, where the environment is controlled and heavy, more permanent machinery can be installed and used, clearly is more efficient.

Built in 90 days

[Viol8]

Falls down in 90 seconds.

And if anyone thinks I'm being unfair they should read up on the safety compromises chinese railways made in the rush to build high speed lines in record time.

Re:Built in 90 days

[cold fjord]

The big question is, if it does fall down, will we have to endure 12 years of conspiracy theories about false flags, controlled demolition, and transwarpthermite? I don't think I would have the strength to endure that. Again.

Re:Built in 90 days

[Anonymous Coward]

I think there might be a slight difference between a pre-fab 2000+ foot tall building that was assembled in 90 days and what you're referring to.

Re:Built in 90 days

[Anonymous Coward]

In defence of the chinese, they have built plenty of skyscrapers and seem to be fairly competent at it. I'm sure that the delays in getting government approval was largely about making guarantees that there will not be an embarrassingly spectacular failure. What I would expect to be poorly done are the little things like plumbing and wiring that are so often under-spec in chinese buildings and will likely making living in such a huge building a misery.

Re:Built in 90 days

[OhANameWhatName]

will we have to endure 12 years of conspiracy theories about false flags

No .. it would collapse in record time. Even physics would fail in the face of the record conspiracy theory collapse, fueling still more'anecdotal' evidence of China's control of the masses.

Re:Built in 90 days

[tippe]

You're not the only one that thinks so. From TFA:

Head of Structures for WSP Middle East, Bart Leclercq, told Middle East Architect, “I don’t think it’s possible to build [an 838m tower] as quickly as they claim. If they manage to build this structure in three months then I will give up structural engineering. I will hang my hat and retire. I will be eating humble pie as well.”
Leclercq likes the idea of prefabrication but says concrete poured onsite in tall buildings provides stiffness, and the time it takes concrete to cure is non-negotiable. He thinks the five-year mark set by the Burj Khalifa is about as good as it gets with current techniques and technologies.

Re:Built in 90 days

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh, I don't think you're being unfair. You just say that like the U.S. isn't also making compromises when it comes to construction and maintenance and endangering peoples lives, which they are.

Re:Built in 90 days

[AmiMoJo]

They are not building it in 90 days, they are erecting it. The building is pre-fabricated in a factory and assembled on site. Lots of places do buildings that way, including Germany which is particular fond of it.

They are ambitious, but their plan is also quite solid (pun intended).

Re:Built in 90 days

[Anonymous Coward]

Seems to me the USA has bigger problems just keeping simple bridges up. Shouldn't trolls like you be more concerned about them than issues that haven't happened in a country you've never been to?

Re:Built in 90 days

[Viol8]

Wouldn't know. I'm not a yank. Why do other trolls like you assume everyone on here is american?

Re:Built in 90 days

[NatasRevol]

Not to the crazies.

Sorry, "truthers"

Re:Built in 90 days

[aaarrrgggh]

The building is effectively a pre-cast bridge standing on end, presumably with post-tensioning strands locking all the blocks together and to the foundation. Three months from breaking ground to occupancy would be a bit hard for me to believe, but three months to topping out I can almost believe. You wouldn't be able to tension the first vertical strands until about 35 days into construction, best-case, but I imagine they would be stacked to about 20% height by then-- that would seem to be your highest risk period.

More power to them if they pull it off. The logistics would be amazing to see.

Re:Built in 90 days

[Anonymous Coward]

Hopefully the ground is too.

Re:Built in 90 days

[PraiseBob]

They have built many skyscrapers. But nobody on the planet has built a building this tall before. The current tallest building in the world took 6 years to build. China plans to build a taller building, using only 5% of the time, and 10% of the budget of the Burj Khalifa.

Re:Built in 90 days

[jrumney]

It's not just the railways. And now the Chinese are spreading their construction expertise throughout Asia.

Re:Built in 90 days

[Anonymous Coward]

Can't they 3D print it like all new cool stuff?

Re:Built in 90 days

[Anonymous Coward]

Exactly what I was thinking: Raised in 90 days, razed in 90 seconds.

Re:Built in 90 days

[cheesybagel]

Not just Asia. They have been quite busy constructing buildings in Africa as well.

Re:Built in 90 days

[Anonymous Coward]

Nah, it'll will be totally safe. They're building it horizontally, you see. Then they plan to hose it down with a mixture of water, ground rhino-horn, tiger's blood, and A LOT of crushed Viagra. That'll get it up!

If that fails, however, they'll just dig out under the top part, paint one side of the pit sky-blue, and photograph it side-ways, faking it like they did the fireworks at the Beijing Olympics Opening Ceremonies.

China. Fake it 'till you fake it. Then after that, just fake it.

(Has any woman in China ever had an orgasm? Nah... they just fake it. - Thanks, I'll be in town all week. Don't forget to tip your waiter!)

Re:Built in 90 days

[Anonymous Coward]

Exactly!

The future!

[Anonymous Coward]

This makes me think of an arcology. All that it's missing is a few floors dedicated to high-efficiency hydroponic food production and its own power generation. Throw in massive corporations having more power than the government, complete with private militaries, and we'll have our own cyberpunk dystopia.

Re:The future!

[Optali]

... and we'll have our own cyberpunk dystopia.

In China !!!

And to put the icing on the cake we equip everything with cameras and broadcast the thing live and we have the first ever cyberpunk reality series!!! Awesome!!

A 90 Day Erection

[Ukab the Great]

Is something to be wary of.

Re:A 90 Day Erection

[OhANameWhatName]

Is something to be wary of

You're a hard, hard man

Re:A 90 Day Erection

[c0lo]

Wonder how many rhinoceros and tigers were sacrificed?

Re:A 90 Day Erection

[Anonymous Coward]

Wonder how many rhinoceros and tigers were sacrificed?

Not quite as many brown children that was sacrificed for One World Trade Center.

Re:A 90 Day Erection

[Anonymous Coward]

That's what Li Keqiang want you to think of him ;-)

Re:A 90 Day Erection

[tgd]

Is something to be wary of.

Ah, to be 18 again.

Re:A 90 Day Erection

[AmiMoJo]

Like a Star Wars marathon, most women get bored after about about the 4th hour.

Re:A 90 Day Erection

[Big Hairy Ian]

You're a hard, hard man

A bit stiff if you ask my :D

Re:A 90 Day Erection

[antdude]

Yeah like this one: http://now.msn.com/penis-shaped-building-under-construction-in-beijing ... :P

Re:A 90 Day Erection

[Anonymous Coward]

If that's the case, you're doing it wrong.

Re:A 90 Day Erection

[Anonymous Coward]

"That's what she said!"

Hive City

[Aboroth]

This is history in the making, humanity's first hive city. Glory to the Emperor!

Re:Hive City

[tgd]

This is history in the making, humanity's first hive city. Glory to the Emperor!

There were a couple places like this one in Hong Kong, north of the city even 15 years ago.

Its the scale that is new, not the concept.

Seems like overkill

[jtownatpunk.net]

Shouldn't they work on filling those empty cities before they build more stuff? Or maybe reduce pollution?

Re:Seems like overkill

[Mashiki]

Nah. Gotta keep up the imaginary growth factor, after all it's not like banks over there are already running into issues seizing assets from companies who've taken loans out against them. You know, two, three or sometimes four times. Wish I could find the article on zero hedge again but it was up sometime last year.

Re:Seems like overkill

[Anonymous Coward]

Shouldn't they work on [...] Or maybe reduce pollution?

Assuming that there will be no highways inside of the building, this is going to reduce pollution.

Re:Seems like overkill

[ericloewe]

Their current solution for their pollution problems is telling people to stay inside. This seems like a logical next step in an idiotic pollution management system.

Re:Seems like overkill

[tgd]

Nah. Gotta keep up the imaginary growth factor, after all it's not like banks over there are already running into issues seizing assets from companies who've taken loans out against them. You know, two, three or sometimes four times. Wish I could find the article on zero hedge again but it was up sometime last year.

Every country's growth is based on an imaginary growth factor.

At least they're getting infrastructure out of it.

Re:Seems like overkill

[Impy the Impiuos Imp]

The three most recent Slashdot stories in a row:

- China quickly approves rapid construction of tallest building in the world.
- Government complaint mechanism upholds removal of clock on British web site.
- British government averages 8x the cost of new laptops per year to maintain old ones.

Those of you who study history know old empires become sclerotic and new, vigorous ones form on the outskirts. Then that becomes old and a newer one still forms. Well, that would be the US from 200-50 years ago. Now the US is sclerotic and faltering, and a newer empire is rapidly rising on its outskirts, unhindered with freeflowing trade.

You, Britain and Europe, are two empire cores removed now.

Sclerosis is a function of government overeating, like any biological body, and not of resource lack, disease, lead pipes, or any of a hundred other idiotic reasons that lousy historians have adopted over the centuries, deliberately putting on blinders that ignore politics.

It is politics that hinders trade routes. Or helps them.

The process takes centuries, but the pattern is the same.

Currently it's taking more time in the US to fight a legal battle to deepen a harbor by 5 feet (and almost as much money) to accomodate new "super-Panama" cargo ships than it took to build the original Panama Canal.

The sclerosis doesn't care why -- at the center, always always always, is failure to keep the trade routes open. Figuratively and literally.

Re:Seems like overkill

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe, but the lessons learnt in the west have been largely ignored by the east, so they will enjoy the pitfalls that came with wearing the rusted crown of commerce:

-Pollution
-Societal upheaval
-Decay

I'd much rather walk down a revitalized dockyard in the UK than a city street in Shanghai.

Re:Seems like overkill

[Impy the Impiuos Imp]

The revitalization is a chimera -- a coat of paint thrown on shit at the expense of other trade elsewhere.

And when China is the only one inventing medical cures anymore, what good your proud coat of paint?

Re:Seems like overkill

[Impy the Impiuos Imp]

I forgot other choice stories near the top:

- Lenovo, a Chinese company, formerly the PC division of US company IBM, opens factory in old empire.

- Government orders Verizon to turn over phone records of everyone.

And now, a small play.

Lackey: What do you mean, "everyone"?

Gary Oldman: Everyone!

Re:Seems like overkill

[Anonymous Coward]

Infrastructure means public utilities within a region or within the country which industry and commerce as a whole can use, not isolated cities in the middle of nowhere that nobody goes to.

Re:Seems like overkill

[Anonymous Coward]

Take a look at Detroit, look at what happened there in the last 50 years. Look what is already happening in many Chinese industrial centres, look at the rise and fall of the Japanese economy. Open your eyes.

When the bubble bursts things are going to be very bad, and the whole world will suffer the result of unbridled arrogance once again. It will make the US mortgage crisis look quaint by comparison.

Re:Seems like overkill

[poity]

If the rapidity of action is your sole measure of government health, then it would seem that a move towards greater fascism, lesser rights for workers/property owners, more stifling of dissenting voices and a court system which always sides with government will, in your eyes, constitute the improvements that reinvigorates a nation.

Re:Seems like overkill

[drinkypoo]

At least they're getting infrastructure out of it.

The infrastructure does them no good so long as their society doesn't permit them to make use of it. They're unwilling or unable to put humans into a position to use it, and meanwhile it's rotting. It would make more sense to sell them to foreign investors than to just let them rot, but nobody would take that bet even if they'd be willing to give it; odds are they'd change their minds later, anyway.

Re:Seems like overkill

[Anonymous Coward]

They are filling the empty cities up, pretty fast too. Evidently they can erect buildings a lot faster than they can move residents.
If you can build a skyscraper like that(emphasis on if, but its still worth trying) in 90 days, you wont be able to find 30 000 people to put in it in 90 days.

Re:Seems like overkill

[HornWumpus]

That's not the question. Will they be able to find 30,000 people who can afford a condo in it?

If you want to go broke you can build a sky scraper in Africa and give it away.

Re:Seems like overkill

[crhylove]

I know right, if you're going to waste all that money, why not waste it on solar power plants or thorium salt reactors? That would pay for itself eventually no matter what, fix the environment, and they'd STILL be getting something for the imaginary bank bubble they're already locked into.

Re:Seems like overkill

[dcw3]

Having been born in Detroit 54 years ago, I'll tell you that the city's troubles revolve around many issues that are completely unrelated to what you're seeing in other locations in China or elsewhere. Detroit, the entire Metro area, is one of the most segregated (if not the most) city in the world, with the highest per capita murder rate in the country. The entire economy revolved around the production of vehicles. So, with the outsourcing of parts, and eventually entire plants, to other countries, you end up with where Detroit and Flint are today.

You pointed to the rise and fall of the Japanese economy. When you have cheap labor, it's all fine until everyone starts moving up in pay. Japan lost business to Korea, Philippines, Malaysia, etc. The same thing happened with Korea when I lived there in the mid-80s to early 90s. The average pay increased dramatically, making them less competitive with other countries.

Re:Seems like overkill

[Raenex]

So cheap labor in Detroit was outsourced to other countries, the same as happened in other countries. How is China going to be different as global capitalism keeps on chasing slave wages around the world?

Re:Seems like overkill

[Raenex]

If the rapidity of action is your sole measure of government health, then it would seem that a move towards greater fascism, lesser rights for workers/property owners, more stifling of dissenting voices and a court system which always sides with government will, in your eyes, constitute the improvements that reinvigorates a nation.

This was modded down, but it accurately describes China. Yeah, I know all you apologists point to failings in the US system, but you're comparing night and day. China is a single party country with absolute power that controls the courts and media. If you want to get a building built in record time with no disputes allowed, China is the place to do it, and it isn't because of "freeflowing trade".

Re:Seems like overkill

[dcw3]

Labor in Detroit was cheap only up into the early 70s. The unions ruined that. And, I'm not saying that unions are all bad, but the UAW is a primary reason for the downfall.

A year in development/approval

[Anonymous Coward]

The inhabitat story linked to in the prior post was written a year ago (with plans to be constructed by end of January 2013). So they are still covering at least some bases not rushing through for an arbitrary deadline.

What can possibly go wrong?

[Anonymous Coward]

I guess we'll just have to wait and find out!

What could possibly go wrong?

[Smerta]

I've seen my fair share of bad ideas over my life, but this has got to be up there with the worst of them.

Old news, obsoleted six months ago

[Nuffsaid]

The Fine Article is a full year old. On October 17 2012 the very same source reported that the firm revised its plans, pointing to a more reasonable (but still very short) 210 days construction time. http://inhabitat.com/worlds-tallest-skyscraper-to-be-built-in-210-days-instead-of-90-as-originally-planned/

Re:Old news, obsoleted six months ago

[cdrudge]

I'll see your 210 days and raise you a Nov 16th, 2012 quote by Juliet Jiang, senior vice president of Broad Group:

[Construction] will go on as planned with the completion of five storeys a day.

We have not issued any press statement on this and it will go on as planned ... we have not said anything about 210 days.

Re:Old news, obsoleted six months ago

[Anonymous Coward]

It's prefab. The longer it takes to approve the longer they have had to build and test the prefab stuff.

But they also need to prepare the foundation. That to me is the tricky bit. Does the 90 days include the foundation? Stacking steel frames on top of steel frames isn't that difficult or unsafe assuming the foundation is good.

my faucet has been dripping for 3 years

[decora]

but you know what? last night i went to Lowe's and asked this guy how to fix it. Fortunately my wife speaks spanish, so she was able to install a new faucet in about 3 days.

take that, China.

Re:my faucet has been dripping for 3 years

[HornWumpus]

What you want is a shot of penicillin for you and the wife. It will stop the burning in your 'faucet' as well as the drip.

Re:my faucet has been dripping for 3 years

[bunkymag]

I was with you here right up until I started to consider what the hell sort of solution the OP had conjured up for himself and the wife from the gentle Spaniard at Lowe's ..

Units in the summary

[Freultwah]

I realise that many /. readers are from the US, but out of politeness to the rest of the world, it would have been nice to provide metric units in the summary in addition to the imperial units. Yes, I can go and convert them and so can others, but such accumulated waste of time could have been easily avoided.

Re:Units in the summary

[stenvar]

You can't multiply by three?

Re:Units in the summary

[JRowe47]

Learn to guesstimate big numbers. It will help reduce your apparent anxiety when confronted with American imperial units of measurement.

It takes about a second or so of guesswork - 1000 feet is about 300 meters. 2000 is 600. 75% of 300 is 225, so we get a guesstimate of 225 + 300 + 300 = 825m . In reality, we're off by about 13, but remember, that doesn't matter. If you're really good at math, you could subsitute 304 for 300 and get closer to the reality, but why bother? The more you do conversions like that, the easier they get.

Out of politeness to your future self, you should adjust your attitude and simply accept that sometimes you'll have to think a little bit. Not much, fortunately, but a little.

And if you absolutely can't handle it, then take responsibility for your own information consumption and install an automatic converter. There are plugins for firefox and chrome that automatically convert units to and from metric and imperial. You can even auto-convert units of currency. You'll never have to waste another second on translating again.

Real politeness never imposes on others. Do unto others as you would have done unto you has a nice corollary: do for yourself what you'd expect to do for others. At some point you have to take care of yourself. :)

Re:Units in the summary

[c0lo]

Given the origin, imperial units are fine... except the empire that was used is totally wrong.
For the case at hand, it should have been expressed in chi; the building will be 2514.6 chi high.

Seriously, one wonders when will those Western barbarians start to learn something?
Even if it's only the basic mandarin; can't be that hard, tens of millions of children learn it effortlessly.

(grin)

Re:Units in the summary

[Anonymous Coward]

Learn to guesstimate big numbers. It will help reduce your apparent anxiety when confronted with American imperial units of measurement.

It takes about a second or so of guesswork - 1000 feet is about 300 meters. 2000 is 600. 75% of 300 is 225, so we get a guesstimate of 225 + 300 + 300 = 825m . In reality, we're off by about 13, but remember, that doesn't matter. If you're really good at math, you could subsitute 304 for 300 and get closer to the reality, but why bother? The more you do conversions like that, the easier they get.

Out of politeness to your future self, you should adjust your attitude and simply accept that sometimes you'll have to think a little bit. Not much, fortunately, but a little.

And if you absolutely can't handle it, then take responsibility for your own information consumption and install an automatic converter. There are plugins for firefox and chrome that automatically convert units to and from metric and imperial. You can even auto-convert units of currency. You'll never have to waste another second on translating again.

Real politeness never imposes on others. Do unto others as you would have done unto you has a nice corollary: do for yourself what you'd expect to do for others. At some point you have to take care of yourself. :)

That has to be one of the most condescending posts I have ever seen in the last 15 years on Slashdot.

I just we (the US) would join the rest of civilization and just use the Metric system. It's a superior system - and calculations that would require a calculator for most in Imperial units can be done in one's head. Like, what is the mass of 371ml of water?

371 grams.

What is the cubic volume of 371 grams of water?

371 cubic centimeters.

It would be wonderful for building materials too. I went to Home Depot the other day fro plywood and you;ll see sheets with thicknesses of 33/64 and other ridiculous fractions. And you have to get your mind around a 3/4 panel or 25/32 panel.

I want millimeters dammit!

And don't get me started on having to have two sets of tools - SAE and Metric - to work on my car.

Re:Units in the summary

[Anonymous Coward]

NASA's MCO couldn't, and plofff, $655.2 millon lost.

Re:Units in the summary

[tgd]

I realise that many /. readers are from the US, but out of politeness to the rest of the world, it would have been nice to provide metric units in the summary in addition to the imperial units. Yes, I can go and convert them and so can others, but such accumulated waste of time could have been easily avoided.

And /. is in the US. Note the .org domain.

The post was also not in French, German, Italian, Chinese, Thai, Mogolian, Yiddish or Aztec.

American site. American English. American units of measure.

(Although, someone should do a units of measure translator like Bing and Google Translate can do with webpages.... so those of you who can't multiply by three in your head can read the site.)

Re:Units in the summary

[JRowe47]

Condescending? I wasn't preaching imperial superiority or anything like that.

I already know the metric system. I accept the fact that there are two conventions, and I live with it. I agree the metric system is easier. At some point, however, you have to reconcile yourself to the undeniable fact that there are times in life you'll have to deal with imperial units. It sucks, but get over it. (That last bit was condescending, in case you missed it.)

As for the post that started this, he implied that the summary was somehow impolite because it didn't conform to his preferred units of measurement. I responded in kind. The summary wasn't impolite, it's a consequence of the worldwide culture we live in. It's not logical to go around expecting the rest of the world to conform to your notions of right and wrong (metric right, imperial wrong.) Even when metric measurement is clearly and objectively a superior system, it's not "impolite" to use imperial units of measurement It's especially not sensible to couch your expectation of other people's conformity in some sort of assumption that noncomformity is offensive or rude.

At worst, noncomformity is ignorant. At best, it's simply a competing convention. Learn to accept that and your life will have much less needless stress.

Re:Units in the summary

[Anonymous Coward]

Slashdot still has no support for comments containing non-English characters, and probably never will. I don't think they're in a hurry to be polite. Excuse me, I'm off to the café for a coffee.

Re:Units in the summary

[JasterBobaMereel]

Metric is used in most of the world, including China where this is being built ...

The US uses metric for many things ...

Re:Units in the summary

[Chris Mattern]

And /. is in the US. Note the .org domain.

.org is an international domain. It has registrars around the world and supports internationalized domain names for Spanish, German, Danish, Hungarian, Icelandic, Korean, Latvian, Lithuanian, Polish, and Swedish

Re:Units in the summary

[Rude Turnip]

There is no such thing as an American unit of measure. It's an a-national concept. The American military and scientists use metric. Do you hate our troops?

Re:Units in the summary

[RobertNotBob]

JRowe47,

Might I humbly suggest that you have a quick look at my slashdot signature that appears below?

Re:Units in the summary

[Anonymous Coward]

The US uses metric for many things ...

Just ask any American drug dealer.

Re:Units in the summary

[Anonymous Coward]

That would be 90 metric days

Re:Units in the summary

[AmiMoJo]

The US is one of only three countries in the world that uses that system. Some people in the UK do but it isn't taught at school any more. You expect the rest of the world to know conversion ratios for your archaic system. Feet just happen to be an easy 1/3 ratio with metres but most other Imperial units are not.

Politeness would be recognizing that you chose not to use the standard system everyone else does but still accommodating them with a quick google conversion.

Re:Units in the summary

[Hans Adler]

Well, yes, there are times when I have to use the system of measurement used by roughly 5 % of the world population rather than the one used by the other 95%. But there shouldn't be so many of these occasions.

Just like a news report in the US should not assume familiarity with the Spanish language just because it's the mother tongue of 12 % of the US population.

Re:Units in the summary

[Anonymous Coward]

Please stop using the word "guesstimate", the word "estimate" works fine enough, and doesn't sound as retarded.

Re:Units in the summary

[Anonymous Coward]

Just like a news report in the US should not assume familiarity with the Spanish language just because it's the mother tongue of 12 % of the US population.

Are you implying that the metric system is the "mother system" of units of even a majority of Slashdot readers?
I don't buy that.

Re:Units in the summary

[Zontar_Thing_From_Ve]

Learn to guesstimate big numbers. It will help reduce your apparent anxiety when confronted with American imperial units of measurement.

I totally agree. I'm American and having done some international travel and having worked for an international company, I have some friends around the world who I stay in touch with from time to time and I've just learned how to do rough conversions in my head from imperial units to metric so I can tell them things like "I live about 40 km from my office" instead of saying "I live 25 miles from my office" and having them wonder whether that is a lot or not. Temperature conversions are not too difficult either. By the way, the source article appears to come from the USA, so the summary was just made on what the submitter read and I don't blame him/her for not bothering to convert. Had it been in metric units, the submitter probably would have just reported that.

Re:Units in the summary

[khallow]

That has to be one of the most condescending posts I have ever seen in the last 15 years on Slashdot.

Sure, you have. I've been reading Slashdot for a tad bit less and I have read more condescending posts. It's just not that hard.

Re:Units in the summary

[IndustrialComplex]

And liters happens to have an easy 1/4 ratio with gallons.

So now you have easy conversions for approximations of distance, and volume.

Re:Units in the summary

[Anonymous Coward]

.org is an international domain. It has registrars around the world and supports internationalized domain names for Spanish, German, Danish, Hungarian, Icelandic, Korean, Latvian, Lithuanian, Polish, and Swedish

Oh, the irony: even your IDN has to have ".org" at the end of it in order to be part of that TLD. And (surprise, surprise) "org" is a commonly-accepted abbreviation for the *English* word "organization."

I'll bet you dollars to donuts that 80% of the IDN languages you list above don't have "org" as the first three letters of whatever word that language uses for "organization", which means that you read the first parts of the IDN in your native language, then switch to English for the ".org" - which was the point of the rebuttal made to the whiner whining about having to translate US units into metric.

In short: you shot yourself in the foot with your very own statement.

Re:Units in the summary

[KNicolson]

American, but not British gallons, which are 4.54 litres, if I remember my sums correctly.

Re:Units in the summary

[Anonymous Coward]

You don't have a signature... doh

Re:Units in the summary

[czernabog]

Real politeness never imposes on others.

And yet Americans keep imposing on the rest of the world with their silly units. Does that mean Americans aren't polite?

Re:Units in the summary

[jbengt]

The US uses metric for many things ...

including for defining US measurements.

Re:Units in the summary

[Anonymous Coward]

I am never afraid to mod up a worthy comment, even from a troll like you.

Re:Units in the summary

[kbahey]

If you are viewing this from an internet connected computer (or have an internet enabled phone/tablet), then just use Google.

Type this in the search: 2,750 feet in meters

And 838.2 meters is the answer right there ...

Re:Units in the summary

[MobyDisk]

it would have been nice to provide metric units in the summary in addition to the imperial units

Sorry! I'll fix it for you:

The long anticipated Chinese construction project called Sky City, a 220 metric story building that can house 30,000 metric Chinese people, has finally received approval from the central government to break ground. The firm Broad Sustainable Building previously constructed a prefab 30 metric story building in 15 earth solar days, but for Sky City, they have an even more aggressive schedule: 90 earth solar days to build 83,820 centimeters into the air. Once completed, the building will be a place for people to both live and work, with recreational facilities, theaters, a school, and a hospital all within the structure." :-)

Re:Units in the summary

[HornWumpus]

Cantonese: Du Leh Lo Mo!

Russian: Yob Toyo Mat!

Most S.E. Asian languages: Da Leh Ma!

Hindi: Mader Chode!

Re:Units in the summary

[Areyoukiddingme]

Although, someone should do a units of measure translator like Bing and Google Translate can do with webpages....

Google did. Try search terms like this:

18 feet in meters
6 gallons in liters

First search result will be the conversion.

Re:Units in the summary

[Smurf]

It takes about a second or so of guesswork - 1000 feet is about 300 meters. 2000 is 600. 75% of 300 is 225, so we get a guesstimate of 225 + 300 + 300 = 825m . In reality, we're off by about 13, but remember, that doesn't matter. If you're really good at math, you could subsitute 304 for 300 and get closer to the reality, but why bother?

Why bother? I'll tell you why bother: Because according to your "guesstimate" the new building would be shorter than Burj Khalifa, and the whole point is that it's taller.

That "guestimate" is about as useful as the "second or so" the according to you the calculation takes.

Re:Units in the summary

[Anonymous Coward]

Estimates, guesstimates, and guesses are three things that are related, but not the same.

An estimate uses known information and documented assumptions, to put a value on other (unknown) information.
A 'guesstimate' uses unknown information and (usually) documented assumptions to put a value on other unknown information.
A guess uses undocumented assumptions and a lack of information to put a value on unknown information.

In terms of typical accuracy, estimates > guesstimates > guesses.

Re:Units in the summary

[fnj]

Feet just happen to be an easy 1/3 ratio with metres

Not really. 1 ft = 0.3048 m. 2750 ft = 838.2 m, not 916.667 m.

Re:Units in the summary

[fnj]

And liters happens to have an easy 1/4 ratio with gallons.

Not really. 1 litre = 0.264172 US gal or 0.219969 Imperial gal, not 0.25 gal.

Re:Units in the summary

[fnj]

Learn to guesstimate big numbers.

Estimation in your head is a valuable talent and not a very difficult one, but calling it guesstimation misses the mark. There is really no place for guesswork in the age of google and the internet, and the process you describe does not even entail guesswork. I really don't know why they don't seem to teach estimation in school any more, but I suppose it's no more crazy than no longer teaching paper and pencil addition, subtraction, multiplication and long division.

Speaking of which, false and stupid precision is REALLY lame, as you point out. Like "We are cruising at an altitude of 33,000 feet, or 10,058.4 metres". Jeeze, just say 10,000 metres.

What I do think is that it is more incumbent on Americans to be polite to the other 95% of the world than it is vice versa. Articles with Imperial units should include the metric equivalents.

Re: Units in the summary

[Anonymous Coward]

There is no such thing as "American units of measure."

From the White House's response to Slashdot's petition for metric system adoption in the US:

"So contrary to what many people may think, the U.S. uses the metric system now to define all basic units used in commerce and trade."

From:
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/response/supporting-american-choices-measurement

Slashdot article:
http://politics.slashdot.org/story/13/05/24/2143244/white-house-use-metric-if-you-want-we-dont-care

Re:Units in the summary

[Anonymous Coward]

And /. is in the US. Note the .org domain.

The post was also not in French, German, Italian, Chinese, Thai, Mogolian, Yiddish or Aztec.

American site. American English. American units of measure.

There is no such thing as "American units of measure."

From the White House's response to Slashdot's petition for metric system adoption in the US:

"So contrary to what many people may think, the U.S. uses the metric system now to define all basic units used in commerce and trade."

From:
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/response/supporting-american-choices-measurement

Slashdot article:
http://politics.slashdot.org/story/13/05/24/2143244/white-house-use-metric-if-you-want-we-dont-care

Re:Units in the summary

[Actually, I do RTFA]

You expect the rest of the world to know conversion ratios for your archaic system.... Politeness would be recognizing that you chose not to use the standard system everyone else does but still accommodating them with a quick google conversion.

Maybe politeness would be you taking the time to learn both systems? I mean, you can get a sense of size without needing to convert it to metric if you have a few common things in feet to compare to . Minimum soccer field (for international play) is 330 feet. So when you see 1000 ft think "3 soccer fields."

But since you got all snide about your units of measure: I'm sorry if I like units on a scale I give a shit about (inches/feet or even cm as a base unit; Farenhieght encompasses temps that normal people see often and are comfortable with in the 0-100 range). I don't worship at the cult of "how heavy water is at my home in France (on average)" has some kind of universal significance, nor do I think sea-level near France is a great measure of "Standard Pressure". But the way you guys fellate water and base 10 is amazing. Even giving you that some location in France is super awesome, and water is the best thing you can base something on, you have such stupid inconsistencies with conversions (cm^3 = mL = 1 gram of 25 Celsius water).

TL;DR Metric was invented because no one read Emerson - and therefore has hobgoblins of the foolish mind.

Re:Units in the summary

[chihowa]

If you don't want to encounter US units of measurement, stop reading US websites. It's really that simple.

I don't get pissed off when German websites are in German, even though only 1% of people use that language.

Re:Units in the summary

[Anonymous Coward]

Nah.

Re:Units in the summary

[ebno-10db]

For the case at hand, it should have been expressed in chi; the building will be 2514.6 chi high.

Nah, in the spirit of Star Trek henceforth Slashdot will use parsecs as the standard unit of distance. The building will be 2.74e-14 parsecs high.

Re:Units in the summary

[ebno-10db]

Well, yes, there are times when I have to use the system of measurement used by roughly 5 % of the world population rather than the one used by the other 95%. But there shouldn't be so many of these occasions.

It's not America's fault that the rest of the world can't do arithmetic, and so is reduced to a simplistic system of units where only powers of 10 are used.

Re:Units in the summary

[Anonymous Coward]

Is Canada one of the other two countries?

Because in Canada we measure the height of buildings in stories and feet, and the builders building the buildings use feet and inches. Heck, even the electricians still use AWG even though the government wasted their time putting conversions in the books. I measure my properly line in feet, and the size of our rooms is advertised in feet. The largest price at the deli counter and grocery is in $/pound. And many items sold are sold in pounds, even if they are labelled as 454 grams. Our vending machines also dispense 12 oz soft drink cans and 24 oz soft drink bottles, although some fool labels them as 355 ml and 710 ml. Cookbooks will tell you how many tablespoons of sugar and cups of flour to add. Our milk comes in 45 oz bags, bundled in three to make 1 gallon of milk (which someone labels as 4 litres, and was smart enough not to label the bags as containing 1333.3... ml each). We also measure our weight by pounds. And we buy gold by the troy oz. Our burger shops advertise 1/4 pounders, and high end restaurants will be happy to sell you a 12 oz new york striploin. We also buy and sell diamonds by the carat. All the home improvement stores (even the Quebec one!) sell a complete selection of UNC threaded products, but most of them carry almost no metric products at all. Those silly hats are sold by the gallon, too.

I will admit, though, when confronted by a government agent, I will pull out my license and read my height in cm off of it to them (I don't know what 5 foot 10 inches is in cm off the top of my head). I also use kilometers for the speed I drive at. When the government agent asks for my mileage (old habits die hard?), I answer with the kilometer reading on my dash. And we do have 2L pop bottles. Our tires are sold by sidewall-to-sidewall width in millimeters, but the size of rim you'll mount the tire on is measured in inches. The bolt pattern for rims on my brand new car will be measured in inches or millimeters, depending on the mood on the engineer who chose it. Oddly enough, I bet you buy your tires and rims the same way in your metric country. Seems like some things never do change!

So, I'll ask, since Canada is country #2, what is country #3? And why does there seem to be a country #4? Is it because there's more countries than you're letting on that use imperial units for almost everything? How far does your misconception go?

Re:Units in the summary

[kimvette]

Maybe politeness would be you taking the time to learn both systems? I mean, you can get a sense of size without needing to convert it to metric if you have a few common things in feet to compare to . Minimum soccer field (for international play) is 330 feet. So when you see 1000 ft think "3 soccer fields."

You just made a really basic educators' mistake: you assumed audience familiarity with the subject matter. Considering this is /. after all, you should offer conversion ratios to Volkswagen car lengths, Volkswagen masses, libraries of congress data units, shit-tons, and fuck-tons. THOSE are the units of measure to which slashdotters can relate, as evidenced by many discussions on this site.

Re:Units in the summary

[Anonymous Coward]

And >99% of the world fauna population is animals. By your logic, Slashdot should post more "oink oink moo moo" stories.

Re:Units in the summary

[Anonymous Coward]

I wonder if you realize that attitude is a significant part of what drives anti-metric sentiment in the US. "No, we *don't* have to do it the way you do."

Getting huffy, just because someone doesn't do something the way you think it ought to be done, might work in your country; I don't know. I do know it won't have the effect you want on most of the people I know. Indeed, you would run the risk of becoming a figure of fun.

Anyway - you're better off seeing a variety of approaches, I think, even if some of them are lousy. I read things all the time written by people from other cultures, and they do not format themselves for me, and I value that, because I read enough stuff already that's formatted for me, and I already think like me. They give me, instead, some glimpse into another way of thinking. - Do you want control, or freedom?

Re:Units in the summary

[Anonymous Coward]

Learn to guesstimate big numbers. It will help reduce your apparent anxiety when confronted with American imperial units of measurement.

Imperial isn't American, it's British. You are using the British system, just like how you speak their language. Not feeling so independent and free now eh?

Been done before

[Anonymous Coward]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kowloon_Walled_City could probably be called an earlier example of that

possibly rational

[stenvar]

That's about $65/sq ft, somewhere around the cheapest US cities or Berlin. Most Asian and European cities are far more expensive. So, these kinds of building may make sense. I'd worry about maintenance, crime, and long-term value, though.

The real issue is

[Anonymous Coward]

that it looks awful flimsy, you'll probably hear every footstep and toilet flush...

2,750 foot = 3048 african swallow wingspans.

[Barryke]

I found it very hard to google the average foot size, so i converted it for you all to see.

Re:2,750 foot = 3048 african swallow wingspans.

[Anonymous Coward]

It would have been nice to provide european swallow wingspans in the summary in addition to the african swallow. Yes, I can go and convert them and so can others, but such accumulated waste of time could have been easily avoided.

Re:2,750 foot = 3048 african swallow wingspans.

[dkleinsc]

Also, for those of you using the wonderfully obsolete furlongs/fortnight/hogshead system, 2750 feet is exactly 4 1/6 furlongs.

Re:2,750 foot = 3048 african swallow wingspans.

[fastgriz]

African swallow wings were easy to google without getting swamped in pr0n since no one fetishizes that... Wait... now they do!

Re:2,750 foot = 3048 african swallow wingspans.

[Anonymous Coward]

Does it house 30,000 Chinese or Americans?

Re:2,750 foot = 3048 african swallow wingspans.

[Anonymous Coward]

Where can I find ASW pr0n? Links please.

Re:2,750 foot = 3048 african swallow wingspans.

[Hillgiant]

It works out to 492.5 smoots. That last half smoot is rather unfortunately for Mr. Smoot and I imagine will leave the top of the building rather messy.

modular

[Dereck1701]

The modular construction technique is pretty impressive, and while it would be great for shorter buildings I'm having my doubts as to its effectiveness in a skyscraper. Also while the structure looks pretty robust the facade, walls and flooring look a little flimsy and may not stand the test of time/usage.

A place to live

[Anonymous Coward]

"the building will be a place for people to both live and work, with recreational facilities, theaters, a school, and a hospital all within the structure.

But no sunshine or trees. Oh right, squinty-eyed people don't require that to "live".

Arcologies

[Saethan]

Can Maxis sue Broad Sustainable Building for prior art?

...

(yes I know Maxis didn't come up with arcologies, it's a joke)

Re:Arcologies

[RobertNotBob]

Yes, you said it as a joke. And indeed that would be outrageous.

...

Sadly, that won't prevent people from trying to sue somebody, these days...

Re:Arcologies

[jonwil]

Actually its not an Arcology as it doesn't have its own power source or food sources (among other things)

What could go wrong?

[mark_reh]

What could go wrong?

nice post

[Anonymous Coward]

top packers and movers bangalore
http://bangalore.indraprasthamovers.com/
top packers and movers hyderabad
http://hyderabad.indraprasthamovers.com/

Chinese erections !

[axonis]

Everyone knows that Chinese erections are due to chi-see right hand rule visualisations from baidu

Empire State Building Built in 14 months

[wilby]

You're not the only one that thinks so. From TFA:

Head of Structures for WSP Middle East, Bart Leclercq, told Middle East Architect, “I don’t think it’s possible to build [an 838m tower] as quickly as they claim. If they manage to build this structure in three months then I will give up structural engineering. I will hang my hat and retire. I will be eating humble pie as well.”
Leclercq likes the idea of prefabrication but says concrete poured onsite in tall buildings provides stiffness, and the time it takes concrete to cure is non-negotiable. He thinks the five-year mark set by the Burj Khalifa is about as good as it gets with current techniques and technologies.

Five years to build with current technology?
The Empire State Building in New York was built in 14 months.
Maybe they should look at using 1930's technology.

Re:Empire State Building Built in 14 months

[Anonymous Coward]

Five years to build with current technology?
The Empire State Building in New York was built in 14 months.
Maybe they should look at using 1930's technology.

They also didn't have OSHA and other worker protections back in the 1930's. A lot of men were injured or fell to their death constructing the Empire State Building on a practically slave wages.

Re:Empire State Building Built in 14 months

[oGMo]

They also didn't have OSHA and other worker protections back in the 1930's. A lot of men were injured or fell to their death constructing the Empire State Building on a practically slave wages.

Sure but the question here isn't "can we do it without safety regs" it's "can we even accomplish this given modern technology". However, the Empire State Building is about 434m (according to wikipedia). I would be very surprised if the requirements didn't go up with height, and at nearly double that, I'm sure things get considerably more difficult. Maybe if they have Gibsonian-style nanoassemblers... but that's a little beyond modern technology.

Re:Empire State Building Built in 14 months

[ebno-10db]

Five years to build with current technology? The Empire State Building in New York was built in 14 months. Maybe they should look at using 1930's technology.

IANASE but I believe 1930's tech meant steel framed, whereas ferroconcrete is more popular these days. Concrete takes time to cure. It can be pre-fabbed, but some people are very skeptical of whether prefabbed concrete is good enough for a structure like this. It's also unclear exactly what "completed" means and whether that term is used consistently. Lastly, fast construction often costs more. In many cases it may not be worth the premium.

Re:Empire State Building Built in 14 months

[jbengt]

IANASE but I believe 1930's tech meant steel framed, whereas ferroconcrete is more popular these days.

Reinforced concrete is used for most mid-rise buildings and some residential high-rise buildings because it sways less (and usually costs less, to a point). But steel is still the preferred choice for very tall buildings because it weighs less per unit strength, which makes a big difference since every floor has to support all the floors above it.

Re:Empire State Building Built in 14 months

[Chowderbags]

The Empire State Building used 48000 cubic meters of concrete. The Burj Khalifa used 330000 cubic meters of concrete.

Re:Empire State Building Built in 14 months

[TWX]

I thought that the point was that the floors don't support each other, that all of the floors were suspended off of the central column and outer structural walls, so one effectively designs the building top-down, the top of the central column has to support the mass of the top, and as one proceeds down the floors, the central column has to support the mass of the floor of its section plus the mass of the rest of the building above, all of the way down...

We could call this Factorial Design...

Re:Empire State Building Built in 14 months

[Black Parrot]

We could call this Factorial Design...

Sounds more like Agile...

Re:Empire State Building Built in 14 months

[kwbauer]

And China today is different how?

Re:Empire State Building Built in 14 months

[Crudely_Indecent]

They also didn't have OSHA

Neither does China

you FAIL it!?

[Anonymous Coward]

already aware, *BSD 'You see, even for the project. But I'd rather hear learn what mistakes failure,* its corpse happinees Another FreeBSD showed world will have

Outer structure in 90 days

[Anonymous Coward]

This is just the frame of the building, not total completion. If they are using prefab components, while aggressive, i don't see a fundamental problem with the timeline.

towering inferno 2.0?

[Joe_Dragon]

towering inferno 2.0? it's china they may just cut corners and safety.

Give them more credit than that...

[MiniMike]

Why do you think it will take them the full 90 days before it collapses?

Also, if the building is 838 meters tall, it will only take 13 seconds for the top of the building to hit fresh rubble, not accounting for the terminal velocity of a huge concrete block.

Re:Give them more credit than that...

[ColdWetDog]

African or European?

Oh. Wait.

Re:Give them more credit than that...

[MiniMike]

African or European?

The rubble will be Asian. The idea that they would ship in fresh rubble from another continent is hard to swallow.

Quick but...

[Anonymous Coward]

The Chinese are knowing for being quick and cheap, but unfortunately their quality is known to be lo grade as well. I won't be going into that building.

Compensating for something?

[CodeHog]

Tallest building in the world? Sounds like they come up short in other areas!

I've seen this before

[slashmydots]

The folks from Extreme Makeover Home Edition try to raise a house in like a week or whatever and they always have to come back and fix their shoddy work. All the water, heat, and electrical is crap. They use fast-drying concrete that cracks and it's generally one big, fake disaster. THAT has an American building permit and inspection too by the way! I can't wait to see this Chinese piece of crap fall over.

Why they can build faster in China

[wcrowe]

In China they can build faster because they don't install fire exits.

Re:Why they can build faster in China

[drinkypoo]

Fire exits? I hope they're stocked with parachutes. This is, after all, supposed to be the world's tallest building.

I sure hope they can pull it off. Because if not, the results will be horrifying.

Re:Why they can build faster in China

[ColdWetDog]

Paragliders. Now, that would cool. In case of a fire, you could ride the thermals.

Police

[wickedsteve]

I assume it will also have at least one police station?

This will be different, they promised....

[Slugster]

....Also in related news, the building will have its own airport with new supersonic passenger jets, its own train station with maglev HSR, and a new autobahn-style highway with a 300km/hr speed limit.

And a new nuclear reactor built-in to provide the electricity for it all. ;)

What could possibly go wrong?

[Anonymous Coward]

You know we were pretty lucky tonight, body count's less then 200. You know, one of these days, you're gonna kill 10,000 in one of these firetraps, and I'm gonna keep eating smoke and carrying out bodies until someone asks us... how to build them.

90 day?!

[Anonymous Coward]

Why so long?! Too slow!! Taking so long bring great shame to family!! You do it in 30 day!!

An Urban Monad

[haapi]

See Robert Silverberg's "The World Inside", about humanity concentrated in near-wholly self-contained skyscrapers.

Re:An Urban Monad

[ColdWetDog]

Or Oath of Fealty or any of a number of other books on Archologies.

Re:An Urban Monad

[Anonymous Coward]

See Robert Silverberg's "The World Inside", about humanity concentrated in near-wholly self-contained skyscrapers.

Try Hugh Howey(sp?)'s "Wool" omnibus.

Too much housing in China already

[doug141]

Look at this video of their "ghost cities" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPILhiTJv7E

Re:Too much housing in China already

[Anonymous Coward]

there is lots of housing in china. Unfortunately, it is in the middle of nowhere and is targeted to tourists and new rich. Affordable housing and commercial space is at a premium in the cities.

Buildings like these are meant to mitigate this.

Re:Too much housing in China already

[flayzernax]

I was also told that some of that was the way people stored wealth in China. Not necessarily for tourism or new rich. But yeah I posted a dupe of parents post. Sorry parent.

Website is not accessible

[Anonymous Coward]

Trying to access singularityhub.com with the lynx browser gives 403 Forbidden. If I first save the pages with Firefox, they render fine.

How much "building time" is actual building?

[istartedi]

This isn't a rhetorical question. I really want to know. AFAIK in the US you have to have plans drawn before you build, so building time is actual building; but plans are sometimes changed even during building, right? How much do they fudge that to the point where "building" is actually planning and building? Now the WTC replacement took a really long time; but most of it was arguing.

Have the Chinese cut out all the arguing and decided that they won't modify plans during construction even if they should?

I'm inclined to think "no". If I had to come up with a plan to erect a skyscraper in 90 days, I'd design one prefab box that could be stacked N high, and I'd stack them. I'd base the "box" design on an entire previous building, just stronger. Having seen renderings of the proposed structure, it looks like that's what they did.

Re:How much "building time" is actual building?

[PPH]

This will be an 'Agile' project. So there's no telling how tall it will actually be.

Re:How much "building time" is actual building?

[kilgortrout]

That's not true. A technique called "fast track construction" was developed in the 1960s: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fast-track_construction For the last 25 years, pretty much any large construction project has utilized some form of fast track construction, i.e. the final plans for the entire project are not completed prior to construction commencing.

Re:How much "building time" is actual building?

[cowscows]

I've worked on the design of a couple of modular buildings, and you're right that that's pretty much the gist of it. All that being said, buildings are really complicated, and you always miss things in the design, and/or things happen that disrupt your schedule, etc. My guess is that they've thought it through pretty good and are rather confident that they didn't miss anything big. Any smaller issues will be noted, and then pretty much ignored while they race to get the last modular piece stacked on top. They'll declare the building finished, and then quietly spend the next few years fixing all of the issues that came up during construction.

Re:How much "building time" is actual building?

[cowscows]

This is modular building though, and if they're planning to assemble in 90 days, then almost all of the modules are going to have to be built well in advance.

Fast-track construction doesn't really do that much to increase the construction time, it just gets the construction started earlier.

Re:How much "building time" is actual building?

[toddestan]

Just wait until the client decides they want the olympic-sized swimming pool on the 167th floor.

Coming Chinese real estate crash?

[GameboyRMH]

Japan had plans to build crazy "arcologies" like this in the late '80s-early '90s, just before their real estate market cratered hard.

Re:Coming Chinese real estate crash?

[Anonymous Coward]

Given the completely unrealistic schedule here, I suspect we'll be seeing a very different sort of real estate crash in China soon...

Uh... you mean Erect

[Anonymous Coward]

Razing a building only takes a couple of hours :)

Coincidentally....

[Anonymous Coward]

Isn't 30k what the initial arcology in SC2K weighed in at population-wise?

Finally! The chinese have arcologies available ahead of schedule! Now if only we can get microwave power plants and soon after fusion ones!

You can explain Building 7?

[Anonymous Coward]

No steel-frame high rise building has ever collapsed because of fire. Building 7 supposedly did, in what looks remarkably like a controlled demolition, everything falling freely into its own footprint.

Explain that, please. The gov's experiments show that the steel used in those buildings does not soften at the temperature of burning fuel oil, all that was burning in building 7.

I believe in evidence, and there is no evidence sufficient to explain building 7.

Re:You can explain Building 7?

[Anonymous Coward]

A wild truther appears. It uses firedoesntmeltsteel. It is not very effective.

Re:You can explain Building 7?

[cold fjord]

Here you go:

NIST Releases Final WTC 7 Investigation Report

Must be Mystico & Janet Construction

[Anonymous Coward]

"We received a note from the Council saying that if we ceased to believe in this building it would fall down"

Arcology: Oath of Fealty (1981) + Neuromancer (84)

[7bit]

This type of structure is considered to be an Arcology.

"Arcology, a portmanteau of the words "architecture" and "ecology", is a set of architectural design principles aimed toward the design of enormous habitats"
http://www.bookdrum.com/books/neuromancer/9780441012039/glossary.html

My first exposure to the word and concept of Arcology/Arcologies was with [William Gibson's novel Neuromancer in 1984]. But thanks to gp poster (Bruce66423) and parent poster (YuppieScum) I now know about the earlier use of the word and concept in [Larry Niven's 1981 novel "Oath of Fealty"].

Oath of Fealty (1981) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oath_of_Fealty_(novel)
Neuromancer (1984) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuromancer

* 'Oath of Fealty' looks really good, I'm tracking it down to buy it now! Again, thanks to Bruce66423 and YuppieScum for this discovery.

And built completely out of cheese and lead

[gelfling]

Like most Chinese products.

Re:And built completely out of cheese and lead

[elsuperjefe]

Actually, there is very little cheese available in China.

The Digital Effect by Steve Perry

[Craig Milo Rogers]

Arcology also appears as part of the backstory in "The Digital Effect", by Steve Perry. Improper building materials lead to an arcology's collapse.

Prefab Housing in Expo 67, Montreal

[Craig Milo Rogers]

But, will it be as interesting to look at as the prefab housing built in Montreal, Quebec, Canada, for Expo 67?

http://www.dwell.com/essay/article/prefab-decade

What could go wrong we built a prefab once.

[ralphaostrander]

A half mile high OK in 90 days OK. lol

Anyone see the latest "Dredd" movie?

[Anonymous Coward]

This "Sky City" concept seems all nice on paper. But remember, humans will be living in it.

Purpose = Phallic Symbol

[Tablizer]

nuf sed

The US could sell them back some gypsum drywall

[Anonymous Coward]

Apparently, it's of adequate building standard in the region.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_drywall

Given chinese quality

[Maxo-Texas]

I would be really scared to be near this building- much less in it.

They need to require that any suppliers spend time in the building after it is finished.

But make sure you also read his 'Ringworld'

[Bruce66423]

which is a true classic of SF; winner of both Nebula AND Hugo. A superb combination of comedy, hard science fiction and characters

Slave Workmanship

[Anonymous Coward]

Made In China.

Achievement

[Anonymous Coward]

"You can do anything you set your mind to when you have vision, determination, and an endless supply of expendable labor." http://www.despair.com/achievement.html

30 days?

[brunnegd]

What is the definition of "build?" The modules are pre-built elsewhere, and this takes longer than 30 days. Also, how much finishing work needs to be done after the building is topped off? But if they succeed, it will still be impressive.

roman aquaducts

[Anonymous Coward]

What if future generations lack the skills, knowledge, physical/natural resources, ____, et cetera to support the infrastructure we build?

Tall Building

[Anonymous Coward]

That's 1/2 mile high!