Slashdot Mirror
Sexism Still a Problem At E3
An anonymous reader writes "Now that E3 has wound down and the big product announcements are out of the way, its time to take a step back and look at the culture represented by the giant gaming show. 'The presence of scantily clad women hawking games and gizmos seemed in particular contrast to a report released this week by the Entertainment Software Association, which organizes the gaming industry's annual trade show. It found that 45 percent of the entire gaming population is now women, and women make up 46 percent of the most frequent game buyers.' While there are fewer 'booth babes' than in earlier shows (and while some are trying to bring balance by adding 'booth bros'), the conference organizers are happy to let exhibitors make their own policy. By contrast, the Penny Arcade Expo forbids 'booth babes,' a controversial but widely lauded stance. A recent article in Kotaku about this year's E3 notes, 'For every confident cosplayer who might do the job at a con, I am seeing dozens of companies trying to sell me hundreds of women. They are not drawing my attention to the content of their games, or to their tactics or techniques. They are drawing my attention to thigh-high boots, to low-cut shirts, and, frankly, to the hard work of a really expensive bra. So much of what I see here at E3 is aimed directly at the lizard hindbrain of a 13-year-old boy. But you have to be 18 to get into the show, and it's nominally for industry professionals. Perhaps someday we—men and women alike—can all be treated like the grown-ups we theoretically are, and be trusted to judge a game by its content... not its double-D cover.'"
If the industry's most prominent trade show looks like it was organized by teenage boys, it's not going to do much to dispel the stereotype that games are just something for teenage boys.
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
Every industry does the same thing, it's just the gaming industry folk live in caves and don't have any clue what happens outside their cave.
They are just pandering to the target audience. Maybe you are very mature, but let's face it, most gamers do act like 13 year old boys. It's all in good fun. E3 exists to show off games and try to get people into the idea of buying them, not to pander to feminist sensibilities.
I have no problem with scantily clad women. I know many women who have no problem (and rather enjoy) scantily clad women. Just cause it's a problem to you doesn't mean it's a problem to everyone else.
There are no pics of scantily clad women at all in the article.
The funny thing is the author of the second article seems to actually approve of this sort of thing.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
You're posting this on Slashdot, land of 25- to 45-year-olds that live in their parents' basements and haven't grown past the mentality of 13-year-olds? And you expect to get sympathy?
"Perhaps someday we—men and women alike—can all be treated like the grown-ups we theoretically are." Men and women who spend enormous amounts of time living vicariously through a video screen. Grown up? Not my any definition I know of.
They're just buying Fallout or Modern Warfare for their boyfriends.
E3 exists to show off games and try to get people into the idea of buying them, not to pander to feminist sensibilities.
It so absolutely makes business sense to repel half of your target market (and more than that of your potential target market) in order to pursue a small marginal edge in your existing customer base.
Well, that or maybe the corporate management are indulging themselves at the expense of the business itself. But we know that that never happens.
Lacking <sarcasm> tags,
At least given the very appropriate banner ad I was being served along with this story.
OS Reviews: Free and Open Source Software
While there are fewer 'booth babes' than in earlier shows (and while some are trying to bring balance by adding 'booth bros')
Now that is a solution I can get behind. I'm not a hot guy. But I'm not full of shit either -- I know that straight women like hot guys, just like straight men like hot women. There's a hundred thousand years of evolution behind it. Pretending it is not true is stupid. Women are naturally drawn to men with a pronounced V shape from their waist to their shoulders -- a trait I do not posess. And men are naturally drawn to big chests. That is reality.
You can argue that it is not sound economic policy, because it directs consumer spending in ways that are not reflective of product quality. Fine, let's talk about that, and maybe start by making advertising not count as a business expense for tax purposes. But if you are upset because it is objectification (or, more realistically, because you are, like me, not hot) -- you've got to get over it. Pretending it is not true is just lying to yourself. It will not change reality.
Stop-Prism.org: Opt Out of Surveillance
Until it doesn't, anything attempting to sell you a product will rely on it.
I mean, look auto convention :
http://content.usatoday.com/communities/driveon/post/2010/01/sexism-fashion-models-start-returning-to-us-auto-shows/1
Sexism at comic book convention :
http://everythingstheworst.wordpress.com/tag/sexism-at-comic-book-conventions/
And tehre are similar stuff for gun convention (one of the weapomn show had sexy fashion model on their tank), I even saw it at downright other normal book convention.
I am not saying it is good, It annoy me too, but game convention are not the only one it happens. but domain which are seen by publisher as populated by men, they misuse sex appeal as advertising. And before you says me "but but there is 50% women in gaming!", check it up : triple AAA is still sadly the province of the young man/male teenager where they dwell in majority.
C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
visit randi.org
It's a perfect match. Tweaking the libido is entertainment. Games are entertainment. The age group here is largely young adult, sexually aware.
So, several things. First, the idea that the female psyche isn't tweaked by up front sexuality? That's dead at the door. It's a social thing right now to pretend that sexuality is "mommy magic" and shouldn't be in play, but that is, and has been for decades, just a toxic result of radical women's lib propaganda. Now that is not saying that women shouldn't have equal opportunity in jobs, salary, medical care, marriage, etc -- not at all. Equal opportunity in matters that are not themselves tied to one's sexuality is good (I don't need equal access to an obstetrician, women don't need equal access to a dick doctor. Few will hire a fellow to strip for other fellows, likewise few would hire women to strip for other women. Etc.) But it is saying that the sexes are different, and that's a good thing, and an interesting thing, and altogether something to be celebrated, elevated, emphasized and above all enjoyed.
Next, and standing all by itself, there's *nothing* wrong with marketing one's natural advantages. We do it with minds that are able to wrap around programming and engineering. Athletes do it with bodies that are able to excel under the stresses of sports, pro and amateur. Actors and models do it with looks that please the audience. And so on, ad infinitum. What's absolutely disgusting is when some idiot steps in and decides that some characteristic, sensuality and looks being perfect examples, isn't "appropriate" for someone to use, either personally, or by employing a third party to "bring" it.
Do people with natural advantages have an easier time going down various roads in life? Yes, they do. Do we have *any* right to say that they should not, or cannot, use those advantages to travel those roads? No, we don't -- there's nowhere to derive such a right from.
Here's an important tip on the term "liberation": When you find yourself saying "sure, you can choose to do that if you like", most probably, you're engaged in something along the lines of liberation. However, when you find yourself saying "you can't do that", you really need to look hard at what you're saying because most likely, what you're engaged in is repression, probably direct and senseless repression at that.
If there's something to question about the marketing here, it might be raised as, "Where are the handsome guys as marketing tweaks for the ladies"? If the buying audience is truly equally distributed between the sexes, then if the game companies have any sense (debatable, where's my new MechAssault?) then they'll hit the women in the same nerve centers. You think they don't enjoy interacting with hunky guys? Oh, silly, silly you. :)
And of course, if good looking people, highly sexual people, or people with moles offend ye, then avoid them, by all means. Just don't tell the rest of us what it is we can, should, or will enjoy.
I raise my glass to those who make personal, informed choices.
I raise my middle finger to those who would interfere with them.
Now, let the politically correct bunk commence.
I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
Sexism Still a Problem Everywhere
Fixed that for you....
Three Squirrels
as ive personally seen, "Booth Babes" are ubuquitous at other trade shows as well. The north american international auto show for example employs a few hundred. the great american motorcycle show quite a few more. Cigar afficionado has a show in Las Vegas that has "babes" behind silhouettes and in front of customers. the reason? Sex sells.
A censorship policy prohibiting women who are not fully clothed to your standard is probably what youre asking for as it applies to both booth bunnies and scantilly clad cosplayers alike. The real question that needs to be asked is what constitutes a moral dress code, and should we enforce it when children are present at conventions? we certainly do not enforce the dress code at the local public swimming pool, and the beach is likely just as offensive.
sorry if this comes off a bit rough, im an LA native, but how did you make it into Los Angeles in one piece let alone the Staples Center? the billboards have sexy women, the strip clubs advertise them outside the venues, the homeless are prone to fits of total nudity and your average male or female angelino on flower street can show up in anything from a 3 piece suit to a pair of mens daisy dukes and a cutoff.
Good people go to bed earlier.
Sex sells. The adage holds because it's true.
It's not always true. In something relevant, like deodorant, perfume, or alcohol; yes, sex definitely sells.
In something less relevant, like hotdogs, sex doesn't sell so well. It can actually be a turnoff. Advertising books have entire sections about this topic.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
Apparently, it's sexist when hired female sales staff ("booth babes") wear T-shirts, makeup, and big hair. But apparently it is OK to use your feminine wiles if you declare yourself a feminist and a female technologist (and apparently, you don't actually need to know much about technology to do so). Can someone who is well versed in the intricacies of sexism and political correctness please explain who is allowed to wear revealing clothes under what circumstances, and who is not?
I'd rather have them add scantily clad men than take out the scantily clad women. Then everyone's happy: companies get to tease our lizard hindbrains, men get to glance at some cute models' tits and ass, women get to glance at whatever the hell they glance at on handsome muscley gentlemen (abs, shoulders, Achille's heel, who the hell knows), everyone's being treated equally!
And then we'll be able to trade our photos of scantily clad men to female attendants of the expo in exchange of photos of scantily clad women, and it'll be a nice fun social thing, you'll get to meet girls and show them the photos you took for them and they'll go "awww, you really know a girl's tastes! That photo you took is spot on!" and they might even agree to go out on a date later, and they won't be so surprised to learn you're bisexual or something because you took photos of half-naked men at an expo to impress them.
Are you implying that adults do not self-insert in the protagonist of whatever novel/movie/game/tv show they're enjoying?
Remind me again... What's evil about using sex to sell your product? Oh yeah... How about the names of the companies - percentage would do - of the companies in the Fortune 500 that do NOT use sex to sell. Just wondering...
Microsoft's little rape joke and the fact that this ever even saw the light of day shows a lot about gaming culture...
"Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies."
No need to prevent "booth babes" at all, since women, both gay & straight, enjoy looking at hot women just as much as men do.
You don't see women being sold beauty products with men in the ads. Marketers know this, with support of a lot of psychological research.
Sexism is something that should be accepted, and understood. It's not a cultural issue, it's biological.
Surely, I can't be the only one that';s rolling my eyes at this 45%\46% statistic that's being thrown about lately. It seems like this statistic is either misunderstood or abused. Puzzle, board and card games made up the majority of online games at 34%. Action, sports, RPG games were all categorized together bizarrely and represented 26%. There's no breakdown of gender per genre, something that's pretty important in a discussion about gender in games. Most gamers would not consider someone who plays poker or scrabble online as a gamer, though, yes, I suppose technically they are. You're a gamer if you play snake on your phone while waiting for the train, but then, if you're a woman, is it fair to criticize the games industry for not catering to you, because in a trade show on the other side of the country a scantily clad model is dressed up as a video game character? Even if you do factor in board and phone games, E3 is not catering to these kinds of players. Is that sexist? I don't know, but I know the ESA's report isn't accurate enough to make that call. Most people have a gaming device called a phone, and have probably played a few games on it, and purchased Angry Birds or some such tat. Does that make them a gamer? I would welcome a more detailed study, particularly one that goes into a lot more detail. Twitch.tv(for game streaming), online multiplayer, trade shows seem to be dominated by men. If women are making up nearly half of gamers where are they? I'm not saying the study is lying. I'm just saying it's too broad. There are genres and gaming platforms favoured by men and women in different proportions, and evidence of sexism starts with gathering
Is indeed a stupid thing. But my experience is as follows:
My three knockout daughters, (yeah, they take after their mother), enjoyed earning good money sometimes as 'booth babes'.
(Various roles at Monaco Grand Prix, Festival de Cannes etc.)
Since they're all now busy with their post-grads, don't think they qualify for 'dumb blonde' status.
They were often sought out because, apart from having great figures, (yeah, mother again), they could actually explain things as diverse as the philsophical concepts behind a film, or why a car was designed that way, (that might be Dad - they've helped me change engines on my old cars).
Often in the evenings they'd be mocking the stupid men who just stared at their bodies...
So, just consider the next time you're passing judgement on a 'booth babe':
1. They might actually be doing it because they want to,
2. Talk to her; you might learn something,
2. Not all great busts are the result of expensive bras or plastic surgery,
3. The last laugh might just be on you...
Seems to work for this stand:
http://www.legitreviews.com/article/2216/1/
What changed under Obama? Nothing Good
oops, wrong paste: http://www.jokeroo.com/pictures/funny/funny-looking-hotdog-stand.html
Slow down cowboy, 1 minute since last post ...
What changed under Obama? Nothing Good
MY Lizard Hindbrain is at LEAST 40! How dare you say something so offensive!
Yeesh, this PC crap needs to go...
Build it, Drive it, Improve it! Hybridz.org
Do these people ever give it a rest?
Male or female, makes no difference. Women's magazines sell with pictures of women. Men's magazines sell with pictures of women.
Feminist ideology says people are sinful for being attracted to women, and capitalists are especially sinful for capitalizing on this fact. But if you don't happen to share their religion, there's nothing to see here but a brute fact of human preferences that no one needs to feel shame over.
I strongly suggest you get a book about advertising (if this is a topic you care about). It will discuss this issue with data, anecdotes, and clarify it for you.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
Does your advanced thought process keep you uninterested in women? Because if it does and you are straight, you might have a testosterone deficit and you should see a doctor.
Otherwise, you might know better than to hit on every busty 20 year old you see, but you still would want to.
Why would I want to hit on every busty 20-year-old? Attraction among advanced creatures like humans is based on considerably more than mere first-physical-sight. There are women I'm attracted to and those I'm not, and this is not usually based on randomly pointing to people I pass on the street...
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
45% of game purchases are by women? I doubt that, unless they're skewing the stats to include mothers of children and such, which would not be an accurate depiction of the gamer market that is still (and will probably always be) male dominated. Tellingly, fluff pieces like these lack links to the stats or studies themselves, so I have to assume they were massaged in yet another attempt to depict women as some kind of silent 'almost' majority in need of PC 'saviors' for political purposes. Even if these stats are accurate, I doubt they take genre demographics into account. For example, marketing for a military themed FPS title would target a different demographic than a puzzle or adventure title. It might make sense to use booth babes for the former, but not the latter..and that's usually how it turns out.
Feminists need to understand that equal opportunity does not imply equal outcome, nor does it entitle them to dictate to men what they should and shouldn't find appealing. They're welcome to try getting more women into games, but the same tired whining about 'uncomfortable' environments as the excuse just reenforces the stereotype (that they claim they're fighting) of women as the weaker sex who lack the emotional maturity to see beyond simplistic marketing tactics not even directed at them! If the majority of buyers of the title will be male, then the industry marketers are doing their jobs correctly as women won't be interested in the title, anyway...and no, it is not the job of the publisher to ensure that feminine appeal. They should be free to make the titles as they please, and these feminist are more than welcome to build (or fund) titles they think will appeal more to women if they think the established content is undesirable to them. However, I think the interest in games and competition will never be as strong in women as it is in men no matter how much the titles are emasculated.
"I really enjoy writing for women," said David Cage, creator of the PlayStation 3 game "Beyond: Two Souls," which features actress Ellen Page as the heroine. "I like female characters because they can be very strong and very tough, but they can cry and be very sensitive. They have a palette of emotions that's much wider than with male characters."
Right, so men have no qualities at all? Political correctness can't let them be too strong, assertive, or intelligent because it would show any female characters as weaker/submissive, and since men don't cry much and women do, it makes women the better default choice. Meanwhile, lets just stereotype men as imbecilic cannon fodder since no one will complain about that, right? What horrible, hypocritical reasoning. Basically, the feminist message seems to be that games designed with a male lead (nevermind a character like duke nukem) lacking a a female keeping him in check somehow, are sexist, yet when it swings the other way (eg: tomb raider or mirror's edge), it's a-ok as long as her boobs aren't bigger than a B-cup.
Most of the best games in history are loaded with stereotypes which are a key part of the appeal in all of those titles. They allow globally accessible assumptions about the story and/or role of the player as they follow tropes that coincide with universal human existence (conflict/reconciliation/loss/achievement/hero/victim/sex/love etc). Few, if any of these are ever politically correct, and without them, games will be as dull as modern TV programming. I don't mind having the heroines, but not at the expense of the heroes.
We do not accept the religious bullshit from extremist, but here we do exactly the same thing: We attack people only because they do not follow the official doctrine of decent american behavior. Which in fact is even worse than religious bullshit, because many (most?) Americans are just hypocrites here. Those booth-girls don't hurt or offend anybody. And no, it's not an offence just because somebody claims it is. In fact even here, among all those pathetic voices, it's hard to find anybody who even claims that he/she is personally offended. Rational people would just go for the easiest solution of this problem: Just ignore it, and let those booth-girls have fun. There wouldn't be any problem if everybody just ignored it.
Dang -- someone else who gets it. I'm really missing those mod points today.
Lacking <sarcasm> tags,
We are still animals, we are driven to mate, to prize health and vitality in prospective partners, and outward appearance and youthful appearance continues to be one of the visual indicators of health and vitality.
I'm sure you will all be really surprised - nay, shocked, awed and stunned to discover that beautiful people sell more products and services than their average looking counterparts, .. that beautiful people earn more money than average looking peers,
http://psysociety.wordpress.com/2011/07/02/beautiful-people-beautiful-products/
http://money.cnn.com/2005/04/08/news/funny/beautiful_money/
Sorry, we're all stuck in meat suits being driven by genetic operating code millenia old. Are you listening to me, Neo? Or were you looking at the woman in the red dress?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9p8LXD5UDs
THIS SPACE INTENTIONALLY LEFT BLANK.
The women who was asked to leave in that link in the summary, was dressed as the main character in the game being promoted.
They made her leave because she dressed like a character in a game at the show. If it's really about "not objectifying women" they should have the entire stand removed and all others like it.
gah, women are women, they exploit men with the way they look, and they enjoy it. and this is evolution at work here - we basically selectively bread each other over time, choosing the quality in our mates that we liked to see more and more. now women basically serve a certain role in our society, and they need to accept that and who they are. they are sex machines with tits and ass, and we like to show that off in gender specific roles - this is not sexism, they are just being used for what they're good for, for what their best talents suit them for. we gotta move past this idea that both genders are equal, cause it's not true. women were meant to and bread to seduce and attract people sexually, everything about their bodies was designed to do it. our brains were also designed to be more successful if we were attacted to these qualities, and hence we are hard wired to appreciate these things. so pretty much tell these dumbasses that think this is sexism to fuck off and start thinking about basic human instincts, evolution, and biology again. this is all normal, and I think most women can learn to like their roles and not be offended by this if they are taught to think about it in the right way. sex is not bad, mkay?
There will be even less professionals in the game industry, if PAX keep kicking out professional models promoting games. Although, that's only going to reduce the number of women in the industry.
So much of what I see here at E3 is aimed directly at the lizard hindbrain of a 13-year-old boy.
Is that some new, clever, more-polite way of saying "aimed at men, who think with their dicks?" 1)Men don't think about sex any more than women do. 2)Men are not interested in promiscuous sex, by and large. 3)Men are not only interested in sex, either. 4)We have agency, and that agency is not controlled any more by our dicks than your agency is controlled by your vagina, thank you very much.
All of the above has been proven with research and studies, which stand in stark face to the crap that just falls out of the mouth of many a feminist in the same breath as complaints about sexism. It's perfectly acceptable to say men think with their genitals and to call them pigs for being interested in sex while calling women interested in sex "empowered." Female nudity is celebrated; male nudity is controversial and rarely if ever portrayed or shown. We're told that women's sexual feature are beautiful, and men's genitals are gross, disgusting, etc.
Furthermore, I am not responsible for content or marketing aimed at my demographic any more than women would be held responsible for content or marketing aimed at them. This is particularly true given that any time this subject comes up with other men, the responses are that it is: cheesy, annoying, eye-roll inducing, and in many cases, not what any of us consider attractive. I don't find blonds with giant breasts to be attractive. Sorry. Don't. Tell that to a bunch of women on a "sexism in the game industry" panel and the response will be some strong variant of "You don't know what you're talking about." Actually, we fuckin' well do. We know better than you are. But it's not convenient to your little rant; what's convenient is to portray us all as drooling over booth babes with hard dicks.
You want equality? Great. So do we. Stop insulting us. Stop repeating sexist, made up bullshit. Stop dismissing us when we tell you you're wrong about prevailing attitudes.
Please help metamoderate.
I agree with the point that they're selling sex appeal, and I would certainly classify it along the continuum that has prostitution at one end. Swimsuit models (or even more so lingerie models) also fall along the same lines in my book.
I have a problem with your classification of marriage, however. While there *are* marriages or other relationships that are a way of converting sex to dollars, I do not believe this is true of all of them. A good marriage is a partnership, both partners contribute what they're best suited for. At one point in the marriage one partner might be contributing most financially, at other points the other one might take over. It's not just sex for money.
I suspect that socially maladjusted males feel a lot more free to be creepy about booth babes than cosplayers in equally revealing costumes. Something about the fact that they're being paid to work there seems to make creepy guys feel like they have the right to hit on them constantly.
(And I say that as a male programmer who has seen way too many attractive women hit on constantly at conferences.)
Isn't it a little sexist to think that the booth babes are there just for the enjoyment of the men?
Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
It's pretty sexist to assume that female gamers don't like booth babes. Many of them do.
It's nowhere near as bad as the '90s, early '00s. The show is absolutely subdued in comparison.
ralphbarbagallo.com
I think it was a Dolce and Gabbanna store that had young men posing half-naked in Baywatch costumes. There was a long queue in front of the store. While I personally don't understand why these people were willing to wait half an hour to buy some shirts, I utterly fail to feel offended by such promo tactics. Seriously - relax.
Insightful.
Lol, that is awesome. I cannot believe they said that on stage.
Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
Almost all sales/trade shows are like this. Car shows, tools, sporting goods, or even pet supplies; they are are all pretty much the same with model/actress/whatever standing around using sex to promote a product. I don't see why electronics/computers should be different. But it seems to be acceptable to bad mouth the "industry" about it. If this offends stop going to the shows, most major companies stream their events. Also pressure your suppliers and business associates not to go as well. But remember, the "booth babes" were banned before and E3 almost went under because no one went.
People apparently have nothing better to complain about.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
"If you walked up and grabbed my ass, you'd get slapped with sexual harassment "
No. Not with me. You'd just smile and follow me.
You hair looks great, by the way.
Why would I want to hit on every busty 20-year-old? Attraction among advanced creatures like humans is based on considerably more than mere first-physical-sight. There are women I'm attracted to and those I'm not, and this is not usually based on randomly pointing to people I pass on the street...
So you're just full of shit and you think the white knight routine will get you laid. Gotcha.
Perhaps someday we—men and women alike—can all be treated like the grown-ups we theoretically are, and be trusted to judge a game by its content... not its double-D cover
This indicates that the person does not understand what is going on. The people doing the marketing don't want you to judge the product on the basis of its content. They want you to be distracted and by it because of things like the hot babe promoting it.
The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
We, in the first world, live in a consumerist society. And to profit in a consumerist society, you have to market. Marketing is everything and there is no limit to how far marketing will go to get attention and, ultimately, to sell something. And not merely to get attention, but to draw attention away from the competition. So it doesn't even matter if the dancing naked ladies have nothing to do with the product being sold, so long as no one is looking at the competition. The competition is for your eyes. After they have your eyes, the competition will weaken and on and on and on.
Marketing has evolved to the point that marketing is now a part of our very culture. We expect it, we even crave it. There's as much attention on the super bowl commercials as there is on the game itself!
"Sexism"? Sexism has nothing to do with it. There is no sexism. There is human desire. Humans desire sex and that's what they are using to draw attention. There are other ways, but none quite so powerful as sex. Even [especially] Disney knows this. This sexism thing is just a symptom of a much larger problem.
d) Make your own damn game, and show everyone what they're doing wrong.
Those things are not mutually exclusive.
I'm in my early 30s with a cushy corporate engineering gig, I'm married, father of one (so far) and by all accounts a respectable and upstanding citizen. Meanwhile, a few weeks ago, we got a babysitter, and invited a friend of my wife's out for drinks. All three of us ended up back at the friends house for a very fun sleep over.
Bring it back to E3, you'd better believe that if I was at E3, I'd be ogling and attempting to flirt with the booth babes. My wife would be too ;)
This signature is false.
Try living for a while in a world in which women have the physical advantage, where you get passed over for promotions because you're male, where you get hassled by women because you're male and where you are largely locked out of certain industries because you are male.
The only thing worse than a jackass who has power is a jackass who has power but pretends he doesn't.
http://www.rootstrikers.org/
Hilarious. Another sicko who claims to get 'turned on' by UGLY women. If you're 'turned on' by ugly women, you are a sick freak, a pervert. Ugly people are disliked for a reason - they are mutants.
Beautiful women are attractive to men because they are NOT mutants, their bodies are genetically fit for reproduction. You, on the other hand, have to make up a reason for liking something OTHER than a woman's physical attractiveness - which means you are dating (LOL - as if you've ever dated) unattractive women, yet you still get 'turned on' by them, because you're sick and depraved.
There are already enough ugly people in the world - please don't make any more.
What "advanced creatures" are you talking about? Oh - you mean the human race, of which 95% at least are mutants and therefore UGLY. You mean the human race, most of whom (at least the males) use their MINDS when having sex, to get turned on by whatever sick thoughts they are thinking of, rather than looking at the physical form of the woman they are having sex with, and being turned on by THAT.
If you are 'turned on' by ANYTHING other than a woman's physical form, AND if you're turned on by ugly women, you are a sick fuck and should not reproduce. But then, why should you care that your own children are born ugly, and therefore handicapped, and will have pretty shit lives?
Asshole.
Prudery and insecurity borne of guilt and shame, formerly masquerading as "morality," in this century now calling itself "egalitarianism." It never dies, it's sufferers just find new ways of justifying it.
Liberty in your lifetime
Linux user here so the exe extension isn't enough to stop me, I'd gamble it just in case
I don't know, as a heterosexual male, I can find myself wanting to stick my dick in every attractive woman I see, though I tend to avoid doing that for a list of reasons to numerous to put here. For a woman that I can fall in love with, now that's very different, where many things come into play, as at that point it's a woman I want to spend my life with. But to what nothing but a romp in the garden, those standards aren't particularly high, as I'd be willing to bet is similar with every guy who's actually honest with himself.
That being said, even the women I respect more than almost everyone will still catch me staring at their breasts, and they call me on it. But I'm honest with them, there tits aren't why I'm friends with them, but sometimes I just can't help myself.
I stopped taking this post seriously when I got to the part that reads "45 percent of the entire gaming population is now women". That statistic is based on mobile games which I am sure are played predominantly by women and are not the subject of E3. If you would care to produce some relevant statistics then I might start caring about what you have to say.
if there was (and probably is ) some oestrogen heavy equivalent to this, no one would care no one wants to take away what makes women happy.
Even if it's purely a romantic affair, seeing someone pass by on the street is not really a lot of information to go on w.r.t. whether you'll have compatible interests, even if we restrict solely to sexual compatibility. Maybe if your turn-ons are solely breast size or something, that's all you need to judge, but that's not the case for all of us.
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
You need to dig a lot deeper if you want to do journalism.
First, scantily clad women do not appeal to men alone. Studies have shown that these women on the cover of magazines increase sales even among female buyers.
And, as I promised, here's a short rant for the next idiot going on about sexims:
Yes, sexism is real. Now stop pretending that the women are the victims. There are a lot of areas where men are the victims. Talk to a man who has been abused by his wife and ask him how much help he has received from the outside world. The part that didn't laugh at him, or disbelief him.
Check with the "gender studies" of your local university and if it's not a thinly veiled feminist assault group, you are very, very lucky (and a rare exception).
Make a graph about how man people work for men's rights compared to women's rights.
Talk to a language feminazi. Oh my god, these are evil and misguided people. Want an example, here's just one: The "His" in "History" has absolutely nothing to do with gender. Check your etymological dictionary.
Are booth babes sexist? Maybe. But what they mainly are is capitalistic: They bring in at least their wages in profits. If scantily clad men would do the same, you bet you'd see them around.
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
No, I just have taste in women that requires more than a 5-second view on the street to evaluate. I hope, for your sake, that you're actually 13 years old if the same isn't true for you.
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
Generally it's commonly about not thinking you are worth as much or as good as you are or not giving you opportunities.
Misogynists don't tend to hate women, they love women's bodies. They like to take them and lock them up and keep them forever. And there's the problem. The problem is their view of women basically could be replaced with a very sexy looking robot. Feminism is the rather paradoxical notion that women are people. And yeah, even without foaming at the mouth hate, you still have problems when it comes to gender equality and treating people like people.
It is no longer uncommon to be uncommon.
I have a better scheme. All people should be rated by a very large group of people who themselves have been rated at least an 8/10 for their looks. This would be sort of like hotornot.com except that only the prettiest of the pretties would be able to vote on others. And serving on this board would be compulsory, part of the 4 years of public service that every citizen, male or female, with a appearance rating of 7 or greater must endure.
Those people with a rating of 5.5 or lower will be allowed 3-6 months of a girlfriend/boyfriend who as part of their government service must help out these less fortunate members of society who will never know the real happiness which only being born beautiful can provide, but will at least have a small taste of what they are missing before they die. These progressive government programs to help out the most needy and unhappy people in any society allow for a truly egalitarian society and true social justice. Money can be earned and saved, but nothing can make an ugly person beautiful. Ugly people and beautiful people live such different lives that they may as well not even be the same species.
Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave.
I disagree that booth babes represent any form of sexism. What it represents is a form of social injustice where the beautiful people are given opportunities that ugly people could never have. This is a form of prejudice. Ugly people are discriminated against in nearly every aspect of human life. It has been shown that those people who were born beautiful believe that happiness is their birthright and really are much more likely to achieve success financially and just in general. Beautiful people have huge advantages in nearly every aspect of life. Isn't it about time that we started cracking down on such injustice and inequality?
This is an area of life where affirmative action and quotas really could help. The problem isn't with what the booth babes are doing. The problem is that they were hired at all for any job when an ugly person is unemployed or is paid less solely because they are less attractive.
Join me and support true egalitarianism in happiness and overall life experience. Hiring a beautiful person should be treated the same as hiring someone from another country. A company should have to show that:
1. There is no ugly person who can do the job. In the case of booth babes this is almost certainly true which brings us to the next requirement.
2. The job itself that truly does require a beautiful person must be shown to be truly necessary, not just in terms of greater profits for shareholders, but for the greater good of society. Pornogrophy for instance can easily demonstrate a greater good, because it benefits ugly people who would never otherwise get to see a beautiful person without their clothes on. Booth babes might also serve to give ugly people an experience that they might never otherwise have: of interacting with one of the superior or super-race of beautiful people who would certainly ignore them if their jobs did not force such contact.
Prejudice against ugly people should not be tolerated in our modern world. Especially since ugly people are actually the majority. The beautiful people only exist at all because we allow it. It's about time they started to treat their inferiors with a bit more respect. They were born lucky. We were lucky to have been born at all. It's time to even the score.
Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave.
If the booth babes thought it was sexist they would not be there. IMO saying booth babes should not exist, is saying that women can't be expected to make wise choices about their own lives - and THAT is much more sexist.
whether you'll have compatible interests, even if we restrict solely to sexual compatibility. Maybe if your turn-ons are solely breast size or something, that's all you need to judge, but that's not the case for all of us.
Compatible interests are a turn on for you? That means that finding out someone has a compatible interest makes you sexually aroused? I find that non-credible, but remotely possible -- and if true, very odd. Can you give some examples? The things I'm imagining like "Oh... you're a Michael Moore fan? That's so hot!" just don't make any sense.
Maybe it's wrong because of how damn uncomfortable it is. Maybe not for guys, but it is uncomfortable as hell for me, a dressed woman with her husband trying to enjoy talking about games without the awkwardness of boobs everywhere. Honestly guys, would you all feel comfortable attending with a bunch of bros in banana hammocks?
1) I don't see man complaining about the Gears of Wars like gorillas or the Final Fantasy like bishounen, both of which can be considered sexist as any female counter part.
2) Classic art is filled with sexism and now is praised by the whole globe and worth millions. Give it time and the original copies of the official artwork of Ivy or Mai will be worth more than most of us will in our entire lifetime.
3) sex > violence
Yes, perfectly comfortable. With or without my SO, who is most definitely a lady. She'd be fine with it too. Nothing offensive about men's bodies for me; they don't trip my trigger sexually, but they certainly don't bother me. Next question?
I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
Even women. Sure they complain when guys do it but they like to look as well. So the more hot chicks at these shows the better.
I'm a straight guy. I'm pretty sure that I'd feel exactly as comfortable in that situation as I would be in the E3 booth babe situation: I wouldn't care about human bodies, but I'd wonder if anyone was taking the whole "trade show" thing seriously. I'd have to admit there'd be some novelty value in seeing guys objectified at a gaming trade show for a change.
BTW, as an able-bodied person, I'd be comfortable if all buildings contained only wheelchair ramps and no stairs. That's the great thing about privilege, you can go through life being completely ignorant of the fact that you have it.
sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f(q{sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f});
Dude, we've all seen Idiocracy. That joke was funny ten years ago.
sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f(q{sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f});
No it really does.
Only in the nerd world are half naked women consisred misogynist. I think the rest of society has an anti-nerd bias. No one mentions half naked women anywhere else.
If a half naked woman was selling you pop music, the same talking heads would be calling her a "strong woman".
Mabey its the reason so many nerds are sex phobic is merely they've been conditioned. Its a terrible double standard.
But what are the reasons for those things?
If women were physically stronger than men, I wouldn't be angry that women were physically stronger than men. That would be "the way it is." It's odd that you list that as a grievance. Are you mad at God and Mother Nature?
Why are men getting passed over for promotion? Because they aren't as good at the job? Because they lack confidence and are more easily taken advantage of? Because they prefer stability and fitting in to taking risks?
What industries are men being locked out of? The undesirable ones like garbage collection? The physically demanding and dangerous ones like logging?
Sounds more like a Pavlovian response than a real instinctive attraction though ; you've learned to associate ugly women with sexual pleasure the same way those dogs learned to associate bells with steak.
You'd need Wine installed to see the visual payload (if it had one), and Wine is good enough to run many Windows viruses.
Just another example of the assault across all subject areas on the legitimacy of maleness. Gaming is essentially childish. So why is making it "adult" and "professional" somehow a desireable goal? So large percentages of women buy games. What percentage of games are written by women? What percentage of SUCCESSFUL games are written by women? Which gender created the subject area in the first place? Who owns and mans the main players? Can't people see the pernicious effects of gynocentrifying our society, of elevating the female need, want, to paramount importance, to the standard by which all is measured? The destruction of maleness and male aggressive creativity does not serve us, women included.
E Proelio Veritas.
Andropause, you're entering Andropause. The correct answer to your question is every guy capable of bedding a 20 year old girl would like to do so, if only for the chance of pumping a baby into her to further his gene pool and emanate virility to his social peers. No one said anything about finding a social/psychological equal to marry. Yes even the most advanced geek ( or at least the top 4% of minds, which I can speak for) want to fuck. Nothing to do with finding love or companionship, that's a totally different concept. They want to fuck and if you don't, perhaps you should see a doctor and through hormone therapy, you can feel what you've been missing; horny young sluts w/ daddy issues.
Now quit assuming everyone buys that plastic politically correct crap you're selling.
*Repent!Quit Your Job!Slack Off!The World Ends Tomorrow and You May Die!
I pity anyone who genuinely believes that scantily clad women will make me more amenable to buying their product. However I will not deny that I find it pleasurable to see them, and why should it be otherwise? In the genre of music called "hip-hop" there are girls that are apparently known as "hip-hop honeys" and apparently it is a very desirable lifestyle to many of them. Why not the same for the girls at the stands - they are getting paid, they might enjoy the dress style, they might enjoy the games. What I don't like about this is the ill-concealed contempt for men finding young women attractive - as if this fact of nature is "bad". When the girls are working at a convention, it is like a carnival - it is about ostentation, it is about exciting the senses. You, as an individual, can still act responsibly and respectfully toward people in those situations.
*Insert ridiculous, apparently intelligent but ultimately meaningless phrase here*
What a good chance for us all to show off how we're obeying the dominant paradigm of equality!
I, too, bow before our egalitarian overlords, citizen!
Futurist Traditionalism
Sexism is discrimination based on sex. These woman are highly paid models, professionals actually. Sex sells, it's a fact. Get over it.
I saw more attractive, scantily clad women at the mall on a Saturday than I've ever seen in E3. Seriously. This seems like a silly conversation after a quick dose of what the actual masses consider normal garb for a day out.
And men like you need to stop being afraid of discussion. If you think that asking people to consider whether having women's bodies presented as window dressing to sell objects is perhaps not the most equality-minded message to be sending - somehow equates to prudishness or "fear" of bodies, then you're either being willfully ignorant to stave off cognitive dissonance, or you're too unsophisticated to have anything meaningful to contribute to the discussion and should come back and try again only after a few basic philosophy and psychology classes.
There are plenty of men who ALREADY complain about even the slightest inclusion of something considered woman-friendly in games. Frankly, I'm unable to imagine a world in which women as the majority of gamers are having our preferences dictate ANYTHING, simply because men complain so quickly and loudly the instant they fear something they consider "theirs" may be finally changing to recognize that they haven't owned it for a long time, if ever. It isn't about being heterosexual (as though this is some kind of marker of pride) or liking women's bodies. The problem with the booth babe phenomenon has nothing to do with whether or not people enjoy looking at women's bodies, and I think you know that and are simply trying to derail the discussion so you don't have to address the REAL issue, namely: is it really professionally appropriate to use barely-dressed women as objects of advertisement at a trade show for a product consumed by a diverse user base? It's not about whether anyone "likes" it. Don't worry, boys; no one is questioning your sexuality. It's about what a professional environment is in 2013. You can't seriously suggest that straight men are so blinded by their sexual desires that they are unable to function in a professional environment without having scantily-clad women hawking products to them. I know many straight men who understand that there's a time and a place for everything. Maybe the critical distinction is that I only spend my time around people who are adults, though - which sadly isn't directly tied to age.
I didn't realize being a straight man meant you were attracted to every single woman of age X. Seriously, dude, stop the sexuality policing. It's demeaning to everyone here and borderline homophobic.
A) no one is selling you women.
B) "They are drawing my attention to thigh-high boots, to low-cut shirts, and, frankly, to the hard work of a really expensive bra."
So? why it's it their fault you can see past that?
Jeez, that was the most pathetic attempt at calling something sexism I have ever seen.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
I hate you.
I object to power without constructive purpose. --Spock
Whatever!!! Im a woman and I want to see scantily clad women. And ya, sorry, sex sells :-)
No one is angry about men being physically stronger than women.
And as far as being passed over for promotions, men tend to promote other men over women without even a thought to their own biases.
// file: mice.h
#include "frickin_lasers.h"
....if those chicks would learn how to make a damn sammich. ...after all, that sammich isn't gonna make itself.
There are 2 groups of people you can make fun of on the Internet without fear of attack. The illiterate, and the Amish.
Amen brother! I like games... but I love women. I don't care how old you are, if you are honest with yourself you will admit you are the same.
Every trade show uses professional models as Booth Babes. They merely dress them a little less trashy than the public-facing cars-shows or races, or games & electronics.
Here's one of the modelling companies justifying its existence... Preferred Promotional Model Talent Group
"gorgeous models that entice attendees to share some time at particular booths." ... "Assertive, eye-catching and well-spoken, trade show models know how to advance brand allegiance and catch the attention of new customers. People don't just pass by a booth with models from PPG!"
Industry trade shows are notoriously sexist. (The women are used as eye-bait. But the primary sales staff will always be male. The booth babe gives you the PR spiel, but when you want to "talk business", you ask for the man.)
Science is all about firing a drunk pig out of a cannon just to see what happens.
I'm female and am not overtly offended by vendors using women as allure to sell their products. What's tiresome about the situation is that it's old school and it doesn't reflect reality anymore... and it probably isn't even effective, but sometimes people keep doing the old things that used to work without really thinking it through. I think the assumption that men will buy a product because there's a scantily clad woman being paid to flirt with him near said product is very demeaning to that gender. I'm tired of this whole "men can only think with one of their heads at a time HAR HAR" stereotype. Yes, men do like looking at attractive things, obviously, but most of the ones I know do actually have a brain and even the nerdy ones are not deprived basement dwellers who melt at the sight of boobies. The times have changed, we're somewhat more enlightened, and E3 needs to get on the ball.
equality-minded message
And why does EVERY message have to be 'equality-minded' in the first place?
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
Yes
Not saying they are blindsided...just that they ENJOY that type thing, and it attracts them to the booths. It works, plain and simple.
I guess to break it to you, in some ways (sexual drive/interests), men NEVER grow completely up. Fact of life
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
All three of us ended up back at the friends house for a very fun sleep over.
Where did you find a babysitter that would be cool with you staying out all night?
They don't grade fathers, but if your daughter's a stripper, you fucked up. --Chris Rock
where you get passed over for promotions because you're male, where you get hassled by women because you're male and where you are largely locked out of certain industries because you are male.
You mean sorta like exactly what exists now?
They don't grade fathers, but if your daughter's a stripper, you fucked up. --Chris Rock
Feminists should find it more condescending that pretty women are lumped into a category of children, mentally handicapped, and animals that cannot protect themselves so they need protection by special interest groups. The assumption that E3 booth babes are too stupid to understand they are being exploited should be what feminists decry about E3, not the existence of the booth babes in the first place.
I haven't thought of anything clever to put here, but then again most of you haven't either.
I have no idea why you posted that anonymously. I pretty much agree with it, though I think Trepidity went a bit too far in the other direction.
I guess to break it to you, in some ways (sexual drive/interests), men NEVER grow completely up. Fact of life
I find it sad that you have such a low opinion of men. I don't view men as children, and people who actually respect men should be offended that apparently many gaming companies do.
Never mind.
http://www.rootstrikers.org/