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Lawsuits Seek To Turn Chimpanzees Into Legal Persons
sciencehabit writes "This morning, an animal rights group known as the Nonhuman Rights Project (NhRP) filed a lawsuit in a New York court in an attempt to get a judge to declare that chimpanzees are legal persons and should be freed from captivity. The suit is the first of three to be filed in three New York counties this week. They target two research chimps at Stony Brook University and two chimps on private property, and are the opening salvo in a coordinated effort to grant 'legal personhood' to a variety of animals across the United States. If NhRP is successful in New York, it would upend millennia of law defining animals as property and could set off a 'chain reaction' that could bleed over to other jurisdictions, says Richard Cupp, a law professor at Pepperdine University in Malibu, California, and a prominent critic of animal rights. 'But if they lose it could be a giant step backward for the movement. They're playing with fire.'"
(Full text)
Heinlein saw this coming in 1947.
Free Martian Whores!
Now if only (non-human) animals had billions of dollars to rewrite the laws in their favor...
Does this mean they will be able to vote?
The Moore-Murphy Law: The number of things that will go wrong will double every 2 years.
I'm sorry but there's no difference between livestock (chicken, cows, horses, etc...) and experiment sujects (mice, chimps, dogs, etc...)
#
#\ @ ? Colonize Mars
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Some people are so darn moronic they make chimps look superior by comparison, yet only people get the vote.
Oot GaRoot for President 2016
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
Chimps are no more legal persons than corporations are. Oh wait...
Should be the only definition of PETA. These eco-terrorists should be fed to feral hogs in TX.
Chimpanzees are people too, my friend!
As an abolitionist vegan (but one who doesn't generally respect "angry protest" culture), I'm bracing myself for a slew of uninformed pseudo-intellectual doublethink and cognitive dissonance in the comments to follow.
...if such a thing passes, am I the only one who sees a potential push for marriage laws to be adapted similarly?
Before you freak out totally, I'm not necessarily referring to anything involving humans in the mix, but think of such things as racehorse/purebred animal breeding and etc.
Could become one hell of a can of worms... (oh, wait, that brings up another thought - are worms eventually getting rights too?)
Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
...I read "Lawsuits Seeks To Turn Lawyers into Chimpanzees".
If freed, chimpanzees would be unable to follow basic laws and would likely need to be locked up in imprisonment anyway.
There is no justification for a separate status for one type of hominid over another within the context of Naturalism.
It will be interesting to see how the courts address this from a secular standpoint, since the rationale for "rights" is grounded in a wholly theistic construct, at least in the U.S.
Search all you like with scientific instruments, you will find no material signature indicating the actual existence of "rights".
~ Whence do you come, slayer of men, or where are you going, conqueror of space?
If politicians are considered people, chimps certainly would qualify.
Slow down, cowboy! It has been 4 hours since you last posted. You must wait another few hours.
Does this mean we'll all gain the constitutionally protected right to fling poo at each other?
English MF? Do You speak it?
No? Animal.
If corporations which aren't even alive or intelligent can be legal persons... why not all intelligent mammals? Dolphins should be on the list too.
Where exactly do they plan on releasing these chimps at? NYC? These animals likely cannot be returned to the wild and would likely face certain death in the wilderness, or the urban jungle for that matter....
gh*d, what a execrably embarrassing attempt at "writing".
Wait, there are other people on the planet who find domestic animal ownership abhorrent? Blimey.
This decision will also be used precedence by the machines to decide how humans should be treated post-singularity. Choose wisely.
I'll start: "You blew it up! You BASTARDS!"
Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you
On what basis do they draw the line of 'the amount' of self-conciousness between chimps and humans on the one hand and other primates, such as orangutans, gorillas, bonobos, on the other? Have they even quantified it at all? And what about dolphins and elephants?
This Supreme Court seems particularly amenable to granting personhood to non-persons. Convince them that it will benefit the Republican party in some way, and I'm sure they'll have no problem declaring that chimpanzees are people.
Well, George W certainly would have had an easier time winning the 2000 election if he had gotten the chimp vote.
Does this include Washington DC legislators and lobbyists?
"I say we take off, nuke the site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure."
We are not eating chimps only because their food is not tasty.
Seems to be more a matter of ready availability. GIS bushmeat and hang onto your lunch, sparky.
Nope. Chimps aren't human, and don't deserve civil rights. Especially not Second Amendment rights. ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhxqIITtTtU )
But seriously, that doesn't mean we're free to treat 'em badly. We tend to draw a black-and-white distinction between persons and nonpersons. If it's a nonperson, we can do whatever we want with it, torture, butchery, it's all good. But it's not that simple. Living things exist on a spectrum of intelligence and "person-ness", from bacteria to plants to fish to cats to chimpanzees (and from fertilized egg to full-term fetus, if you want to go there). Our morality needs to reflect that.
So no, chimps don't get rights. But they should get the respect they're due as almost-persons.
If a corporation can be a person, why can't a chimp?
Step 1: Create a corporation called Chimp Inc. and make its owner a chimp named Bonzo. (People can leave their fortunes to a pet cat, they should be able to leave controlling interest of a corporation to a chimp.)
Step 2: Once Bonzo the chimp has control of the Chimp Inc. corporation, have Chimp Inc. buy Bonzo the chimp.
Step 3: Bonzo is the sole owner of Chimp Inc.
and the only property of Chimp Inc. is Bonzo.
Chimp Inc. is a legal corporate person.
Chimp Inc. = Bonzo the chimp.
Therefore Bonzo the chimp is a legal person.
Seems to me all a chimpanzee needs to do is incorporate, and then they'd be a legal person, just as corporations are people.
Unless ... corporations aren't people?
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
is not merely sentience, but whether one is paying taxes. Taxpayers are paying the salaries of those who decide cases like this.
Also: "right turn, Clyde." *whack*
Laughter is the Spackle of the Soul.
Doesn't find it, sad to say.
Sorry, I forgot there are ads on the Web; I use Lynx.
"But if they lose it could be a giant step backward for the movement. They're playing with fire."
Maybe NhRP shouldn't monkey around with this.
Step 1: declare chimps person and demand they be released
Step 2: arrest now-homeless person-chimps for trespassing
Step 3: make incarcerated person-chimps do whatever they were doing before as prison labor
As humans, I believe we have a responsibility to treat creatures with a humane stewardship but this lawsuit is pushing an agenda other than humane stewardship. This is the exact kind of thing which makes people roll their eyes every time a vegetarian speaks up about the living conditions of feed-lot beef, or the destruction of bottom trawling and bycatch.
Join the Slashcott! Feb 10 thru Feb 17!
I saw this coming when I decided on a sig line.
seems we have a lot of turtefuckers here on /.
I'd rather have a law to turn some obnoxious humans into chimpanzees
I imagine that chimps imprisoned in human jails might make some interesting reality TV shows.
Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
Will those chimps be required to petition for citizenship? If they are given citizenship will they be required to pay taxes? Will they be required to get Affordable Healthcare?
I am Bennett Haselton! I am Bennett Haselton!
Will they also get the right to vote if this passes?
Or is that the real use of this nice way to get a big block of votes.
Could they be charged with attempted murder for ripping faces off?
I, for one, welcome our new chimpanzee overlords.
How will this change the census in the USA and Africa ?
If this succeeds, every state law against sexual contact with animals for pleasure will get repealed because the laws are written in a draconian way to deny any possibility that non-human mammals have a right to enjoy orgasms.
Also, neutering will become outlawed as genital mutilation when non-hormonal injectable alternatives exist.
It's well documented that some animals have the mental capacity of a typical 3 year old human child. (See Alex the african grey parrot, Koko the gorilla, etc.)
Personhood implies social responsibility.
This is much more than paying taxes, it involves a wide range of social interactions including employment, self-reliance, participation in government etc.
Chimps if "released" could not function in our society. Releasing them into the wild would be a death sentence for most lab animals.
They would still need to be cared for, and are unlikely to be able to contribute much.
I do not see how a judge could make a finding of personhood under (what little I know of) American law.
"an animal rights group known as the Nonhuman Rights Project (NhRP) filed a lawsuit in a New York Supreme Court in an attempt to get a judge to declare that chimpanzees are legal persons"
That's ridiculous.
Chimps are good eatin'.
...there is hope for me, a code monkey !
Religous speak to God. Insane are spoken to by God. When all shut up, one can finally hear Shostakovich in peace
Use to be that a person owed a dog no better treatment than they did a chair or silverware. The idea of animals as mere "chattel" has been slowly chipped away at over time. As people have come to view animals as having a higher status than a bookshelf, the law has slowly moved the same way. Animal abuse is generally a crime everywhere. Further the state can take away animals from people who mistreat them.......the same is not true for one who "mistreats" their wooden desk, no matter how public and violent the act may be.
The risk that these animal rights activist face is that of setting unfavorable precedent which, under the legal concept of stare decisis, could serve as a roadblock to courts future recognitions of animal "rights". There are also a myriad of peripheral issues that such a finding would raise. If a chimp is legally considered a person, what is their citizenship? Does the U.S. Constitution apply to them? Can they vote? The list goes on.
...should legaly be considered Chimpanzees.
...is how this will affect my working relationship with my Trunk Monkey.
Does that mean they have to attend school? Do they have to pay taxes? Can they apply for unemployment benefits? Are they recognised as citizens? Can they not be discriminated based on race/species? Is throwing poop protected by freedom of speech?
Stop being fucking stupid you animal huggers.
Judging by some of what I've seen in the local Walmart, some people are closer than others...
There is a much better argument that a fetus is a person and deserves protection under the law but the anti-abortion types haven't managed to get that idea recognized by the courts or enacted as law through the ballot box. I don't agree with their argument or what the anti-abortion types are trying to do by making it but I can still see some validity to their argument. Given that the courts have considered whether a fetus is a person from the moment of conception and said "no", I don't see the courts granting "personhood" to chimpanzees.
O/T: This does give rise to an amusing situation. The folks who push "personhood" for a fetus would probably vehemently oppose granting the same designation to a chimpanzee (fundamentalists see man as on a whole different level than other animals). Likewise, the people pushing personhood for chimps would be some of the more liberal types and would probably be very "pro-choice".
Cheers,
Dave
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither safety nor liberty.
Ben
Remember when we questioned whether or not a monkey could own a copyright? Well, if this happens...
But this is stupid. Really stupid.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
...if they rip your face off they will go to jail?
The pursuit of absolute tolerance leads to the most rigorous and ludicrous intolerance. - REX MURPHY
You should be forced to actually be personally involved with taking care of animals (particularly larger, more dangerous animals than just a dog or a cat, but some of these idiots have never even owned a pet...) before you are allowed to say word one about animal rights. most of these people are complete idiots and nut jobs that have never had any real experience with animals. Nothing wrong with loving animals and not wanting them abused but you really need to understand something about them and how the real world works first.
Most of the animal lovers I know can't stand most of these animal rights people. They basically want to make it impossible to own livestock or pets and will succeed in most of these wonderful animals being put down or even going extinct once humans can't do anything with them (either positive or negative).
Ahem. Stormy Dragon (800799) [aka you] didn't use an approved sarcasm marker, so the whoosh is actually on you.
(Hint: Most US "conservatives" would see nothing wrong with the plan as proposed, so it's important to point the flaw; otherwise they won't get it and will think it's serious. And for all I know, you are a US conservative proposing such in all seriousness.)
..from chimpan-A to chimpan-Z. No you'll never make a monkey out of me! Oh my god, I was wrong. It was Earth all along.
So, if humans can sue to say that monkeys are not property, but deserve rights as humans, then what is to stop my cat from suing to have me legally declared it's property and servant? After all, that would only be making the de facto the de jure.
first they made these zoos called googleplex and apple ring. there the monkeys were fed and made to work all day and night. then someone demanded they be released from their privacy sucking imprisonment and they were released to the wild..
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1318514/, laywer version
One hundred years hence humans will look back at a time when monkeys were not considered legal persons.
Why not giving up on the habit of incarcerating chimpanzees in zoo, but the transition will be troublesome. A chimpanzee who always lived in a zoo will find freedom in the jungle quite unpleasant — if he/she/it even survive the experience.
Once pigs, chickens and cattle achieve legal personhood, the soybeans will be anxiously waiting for their turn.
Will these chimpanzees be able to apply for citizenship or run for President if native born?
I thought that the President was already a person?
Is there virtually no Caucasians left on Linkedin
One Hispanic, one female African-American, one Asian-Pacific-American, one Native-Indian, one Euro-Caucasian, one male African-American ...
Shucks, we turned one into a president twice.
Multitasking: Just Say No
Chimps are chimps not people. To declare otherwise is to declare 2 lights + 2 lights = 5 lights.
Besides abusing legal system to get your way short-circuiting normal legislative/consensus building paths to get the change you seek is poisonous to the democratic process. It does not matter what the issue is or how you feel about it.
Obviously you're one of those soft on monkey-crime liberals who just want to make excuses for law-breaking apes. "Oh it's his up bringing! His parents didn't throw enough feces at him when he was growing up!" Well Charlton Heston showed us what happens if you don't stand up to the rampaging primate hordes. It's a mad house! A MAD HOUSE!!!!!
So now we could marry the chimp of our choice. Wait! i already did that. My first wife must have been some sort of monkey!
Rubbish. The Jewish view of marriage is pretty much just as a legal contract with some added fluff. There is even exchange of consideration. It would be better the other way round religion should keep its nose out of marriage.
There are even chimps leading countries, like that zoo animal Broc Obongo (or something like that) in the United Mexican Colonies.
Perhaps but it would open up all other kinds of questions about things like the buying and selling of the animal (slavery), using the animals in entertainment settings or medical testing without concent. This isn't as simple as it seems on the surface.
If 1000 monkeys on 1000 typewriters accidentally recreate copyrighted works they could be sued.
They take my pride and dignity
And not mention, my voice from me
But they don't realize until I say
Get your paws off me you damn dirty ape
I'd much rather the rights of anyone who tries to claim a chimpanzee is a "person" be demoted instead. They're blind to how their own rights are being eroded, so they don't have to worry: soon chimps will have the same rights as people, but it will be because humans won't be as much "people" as other legal/business constructs are.
1. Declare animals as legal persons
2. Prosecute all cute animals for tax evasion and send them to Alcatraz
3. Create the best historical landmark/petting zoo combo ever!
Corporations can't vote because the managers know that one more vote isn't going to make much difference.
Dude, companies don't decide who can legally vote or not. It's not like it's a choice companies have, or ever will make.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
The Jewish view of marriage is pretty much just as a legal contract with some added fluff.
Legal contract under which system of laws? If they fail to recognize the difference because they cling to an antiquated (actually ancient) understanding of legal rights, then they are just being stubborn.
You won't let women traverse your bridge?
They won't be able to win because what would stop it cascading over to other animals... by the end of it Macdonalds, KFC, etc. would be closing down and the entire human race would be herbivores.
Chimpanzees are not human. They don't think like humans, they don't behave like humans, they aren't physically built like humans. Of all these things, probably the most important is that they don't think like humans.
The point is not whether chimps are human; it's whether they are persons.
An old story arc of the Piranha Club comic involved Ernie Floyd having chimpanzees as maids or drivers. When the maid chimpanzee got pregnant by the driver chimpanzee, it went to court (with Sid Fernwilter as the only licensed monkey lawyer) and Ernie was ordered to pay alimony.
/ The Arrow
"How lovely you are. So lovely in my straightjacket..." - Nny
we have one in the Oval Office
They should have their freedom like every other sentient animal, dolphins, whales, cats, dogs.... except cows, fuck them, cows are tastey.
First you add a qualifier, namely "human". Now you invent a bullshit distinction between knowing something and knowing that you know it.
I think I'm going to invest in whichever logistics company you employ to move the goalposts around.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
I take it you didn't watch the link. You should, I think you might see some people you recognise.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
Good for Jews. But that doesn't stop a lot of (Christian) people from trying to dictate who can or can't marry who based on their religion - I am, of course, referring to the opposition to gay marriage. So it would be best to officially secularize the state-concerning legal aspects of marriage, and let various churches, sects and suicide cults conduct whatever rituals they want for who they want on whatever basis they want.
They won't, and the state doesn't have the authority to demand they do. On the other hand, the state does have the authority to separate any religious aspecs from the legal aspects, to not give them any consideration or the power of law. The end result is the same.
Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.
If a chimpanzee were granted the rights of "personhood", then it would be by applying the standards of humanity. Applying those same standards, he would also be declared legally incompetent. His "imprisonment" would merely be re-defined as "protective custody", and no standard of care would be granted beyond that which could have been gained by applying laws against animal cruelty. IOW, I think this is a wasted exercise. However, IANAL, therefore I'm not stupid enough to think otherwise. ;)
Though I am willing to entertain the, "Yeah, but chimps are assholes" argument.
As soon as those chimpanzees apply for their rights by themselves I am all for it.
In the meantime, could somebody provide some psychiatric help to those members of the Nonhuman Rights Project?
"So it would be best to officially secularize the state-concerning legal aspects of marriage, and let various churches, sects and suicide cults conduct whatever rituals they want for who they want on whatever basis they want."
This is already how it is done. You go to city hall or county office, etc, to get a marriage license. There is no requirement to go to a church, sect, or cult, but you may not be viewed as married by those institutions. Similarly, if you only go to a church/sect/cult and don't go to city hall, you're not married in the eyes of the law (exception: states with common law marriage).
Only if the chimmies are able to pass the galactic standard uplift ceremony should they be treated as legal persons. Until then we are still their patrons...
Also Dolphins...
Then something that is actually flesh and blood and looks vaguely like us can be a person.
After all, corporations are legal persons now, thanks to "Citizens United". Let's include whales, Dolphins, Dogs, Cats, etc. etc.
Get You Hands Off Me You Damn Dirty Ape!
Corporations are legal persons.
An unborn human being is not a person, but an animal is. We are truly bound for damnation.
I might get citizenship.... :D
I come to Slashdot only to read sigs. One you are reading is mine.
A few more monkey votes won't make much of a difference.
Since our illustrious government/court system has turned corporations into individuals, why not add chimpanzees as persons?
It would definitely be a step up the evolutionary chain for them (the legislators/judges).
And who knows, perhaps some day citizens of this nation might even be afforded the status of legal personhood as well.
There have been times Sir when I have been dumber than a Roomba. I hope you do not think that gives you a right to stomp on me or put me on a hook and feed me to the fishes.
I doubt you appreciate how marvellously simple-minded a Roomba truly is. I speak with certainty when I say that they are dumber than even our most celebrated politicians.
Bio questions? Ask me to start a Q&A journal. Computer analogies available for most topics!
The real power in America has been transferred to corporations; if you're serious about protecting chimpanzees, incorporate them.
Voila! - instant super-"citizens".
Orwell: "In a Time of Universal Deceit, telling the Truth is a Revolutionary Act"
So we're supposed to let them loose to roam about the US countryside? I can't see this ending badly at all ;)
I suppose as legal people we must teach them all sign language? Give them the right to vote?
Does it also mean that they go to regular prison when they eat people's faces?
Remember this?
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/man-lost-face-05-mauling-hell-new-chimpanzee-victim-article-1.364450
Then Microsoft will have to PAY them for churning out code?
...since they would be required to sign up for Obamacare.