Apple Announces Smartwatch, Bigger iPhones, Mobile Payments

Today at Apple's September press conference, they announced the new iPhone 6 models. There are two of them — the iPhone 6 is 4.7" at 1334x750, and the iPhone 6 Plus is 5.5" at 1920x1080. Both phones are thinner than earlier models: 5S: 7.6mm, 6: 6.9mm, 6 Plus: 7.1mm. The phones have a new-generation chip, the 64-bit A8. Apple says the new phones have a 25% faster CPU, 50% faster GPU, and they're 50% more energy efficient (though they were careful to say the phones have "equal or better" battery life to the 5S). Apple upgrade the phones' wireless capabilities, moving voice calls to LTE and also enabling voice calls over Wi-Fi. The phones ship on September 19th, preceded by the release of iOS 8 on September 17th.

Apple also announced its entry into the payments market with "Apple Pay." They're trying to replace traditional credit card payments with holding an iPhone up to a scanner instead. It uses NFC and the iPhone's TouchID fingerprint scanner. Users can take a picture of their credit cards, and Apple Pay will gather payment information, encrypt it, and store it. (Apple won't have any of the information about users' credit cards or their purchases, and users will be able to disable the payment option through Find My iPhone if they lose the device.) Apple Pay will work with Visa, Mastercard, and American Express cards to start. 220,000 stores that support contactless payment will accept Apple Pay, and many apps are building direct shopping support for it. It will launch in October as an update for iOS 8, and work only on the new phones.

Apple capped off the conference with the announcement of the long-anticipated "Apple Watch." Their approach to UI is different from most smartwatch makers: Apple has preserved the dial often found on the side of analog watches, using it as a button and an input wheel. This "digital crown" enables features like zoom without obscuring the small screen with fingers. The screen is touch-sensitive and pressure sensitive, so software can respond to a light tap differently than a hard tap. The watch runs on a new, custom-designed chip called the S1, it has sensors to detect your pulse, and it has a microphone to receive and respond to voice commands. It's powered by a connector that has no exposed contacts — it magnetically seals to watch and charges inductively. The Apple Watch requires an iPhone of the following models to work: 6, 6Plus, 5s, 5c, 5. It will be available in early 2015, and will cost $349 for a base model.

Comments

Trust us with your payments

[NotDrWho]

After all, you trusted us with your nude photos.

Re:Trust us with your payments

[Njorthbiatr]

It's not really like your credit card is that secure anyway.

Re:Trust us with your payments

[Jeremiah Cornelius]

Apple doesn't middle-man the banking/merchant transaction in their model.

Unlike Google/Samsung/Amazon, they are not collecting or monetizing transaction or location info of buyers. They limit their liability and focus on where they make real money.

Re:Trust us with your payments

[viperidaenz]

So you've got one of these new iPhones and you've checked it?

Re:Trust us with your payments

[iluvcapra]

If we take the CEO and a corporate VP of Apple at their word, then this is how it works. Apple doesn't store CC numbers, they stay on the phone and all the transactions themselves happen with one-time codes.

If they're lying or they're misinformed that'd be a big deal

Re:Trust us with your payments

[ksheff]

I'm curious how this is going to work with the chip and pin card requirements that are supposed to be in place by Oct 2015.

Re:Trust us with your payments

[John Bokma]

Yeah, collected over months and "suddenly" leaked a week before this event ...

Re:Trust us with your payments

[macs4all]

After all, you trusted us with your nude photos.

Except the data breach you are alluding to was the fault of people using weak passwords, rather than a fault in the security of iCloud.

Having said that, anyone who posts nudie selfies onto ANY online/cloud-based storage deserves exactly what they get.

Re:Trust us with your payments

[afidel]

So if you lose or upgrade your phone you have to re-setup all your stored cards? That doesn't sound very Apple like. If not then they're storing it in your device backup and just like the nude pics it's open for hackers to retrieve from the backup image.

Re:Trust us with your payments

[nine-times]

As far as I've seen reported, it's still not confirmed that the leaks were due to any fault on Apple's part. As far as I have been able to piece together, a lot of people jumped to the conclusion that there must have been a single major hack of iCloud because many of the photos were taken with iPhones, and they were leaked shortly after a potential method for exploiting iCloud was discovered.

However, a lot of what has come out since then has indicated that the photos were gathered from a variety of sources over a long period of time, and compiled into a collection of sorts by an underground ring of collectors who traded nude celebrity photos. If that's the case, then we don't actually know how the trading ring got their hands on any given photo. The story probably shouldn't be "Hackers got their hands on nude photos by hacking iCloud," but instead, "Hackers spent years collecting nude photos that came from a variety of sources.

That said, I'm forced to trust banks with my banking. I trust no one with nude photos.

Re:Trust us with your payments

[iluvcapra]

So if you lose or upgrade your phone you have to re-setup all your stored cards? That doesn't sound very Apple like.

If it works like everything else on it's on your backup, which, if you're smart, you only do locally. It's a good question if they'll put it in the cloud backup -- I don't use the Cloud backup features.

Reimporting the cards doesn't seem to be a big deal, you just have to take a picture of it with the camera, frankly I wouldn't mind doing that every time I get a new phone.

Given what we know, if Dread Pirate Roberts made me choose between having my wallet stolen or my phone stolen, TAKE THE PHONE. It's clear that the information in phone form can do a lot less damage.

Re:Trust us with your payments

[i kan reed]

Right. Because... Actually I don't even know what conspiracy you could imagine someone engaging in.

Like I can't even come up with a sarcastic story for what's going on in your head.

Re:Trust us with your payments

[qbast]

Except the data breach you are alluding to was the fault of people using weak passwords, rather than a fault in the security of iCloud.

And you know this because ... ?

Re:Trust us with your payments

[rjstanford]

Actually, they're not - they're storing a newly created token that represents the combination of the card and your phone's "fingerprint" (pun intended). Due to the way that the NFC card payment handshaking works, its useless without the phone (or an emulator for the phone) and can be trivially marked as invalid.

To put it bluntly, while it isn't perfect its an order of magnitude better than an unchanging magstripe is, which is why Apple is rumored to have convinced Visa et al to approve "card present" rates for Apple Pay transactions which will greatly increase adoption - especially with the combination of app purchases and card-present rates. That's huge.

Once again, its not about the technology, its about combining the technology with a smashingly good business relationship.

Re:Trust us with your payments

[IamTheRealMike]

It probably doesn't. This Secure Element+rotating CVV thing is the same as what Google Wallet uses/used, and it's just not the same technology as EMV. Similar concept from what I understand but not actually the same. EMV requires merchants to upgrade their backend infrastructure because they fundamentally aren't just passing around credit card numbers anymore, whereas this is designed to let merchants skip all that and pretend they're still charging regular credit card numbers, with the last three digits changing per transaction. One question in my mind is what happens after you made 1000 transactions: presumably the CVVs start being reused? Or perhaps if they're semi-random they start colliding before that.

At any rate, the big question is whether VISA/MC/the banks will interpret this half-assed non-EMV thing as being as secure as regular EMV. I don't see how it can be, myself, but I've never looked at this in depth. The 2015 date refers to the liability shift. It doesn't imply an actual flag day or widespread deployment of EMV. The idea is after that date whoever has the weaker technology pays for fraud. If the bank hasn't deployed EMV and the merchant has, the bank pays. Otherwise it's vice versa. But I'm not sure how that works here - banks aren't issuing iPhones to people, so when does the merchant win? If the user doesn't have an iPhone? Seems tricky.

Anyway don't expect this to work outside the USA. Not only is the tech different but it's also fundamentally useless. Contactless EMV cards are being rolled out around the world now and they're convenient because you don't have to type in the PIN for small amounts, whilst still being secure. For larger amounts, the PIN is still required. But the cards don't require batteries, can be dropped on the ground, slide inside a wallet, can't be hacked, make payments in just a second or two etc. So it's not clear why you'd want to use a phone instead of a card for this.

Re:Trust us with your payments

[John Bokma]

And you know it's wrong because ... ?

Anyway, for one the photos were collected over months and only of a hand full of celebs. If iCloud was breached there would be terrabytes of data on the piratebay. But maybe I should just hold my breath a bit longer?

Re:Trust us with your payments

[necro81]

So if you lose or upgrade your phone you have to re-setup all your stored cards? That doesn't sound very Apple like.

If you lose or upgrade your phone you have to re-setup your TouchID information. Apple contends, and I haven't seen any research to contradict their claim, that the TouchID information resides solely on the device, not in the device backup, not in the cloud. So there is precedent for something that may not ordinarily seem "Apple like."

It's not like it is that hard of a procedure to re-enter your credit card information. How many cards are we talking about here? How long does it take to enter that information? One minute per card?

Re:Trust us with your payments

[Jane Q. Public]

Apple doesn't middle-man the banking/merchant transaction in their model.

Unlike Google/Samsung/Amazon, they are not collecting or monetizing transaction or location info of buyers. They limit their liability and focus on where they make real money.

From a different security standpoint, it hardly matters. I am simply astounded that Apple chose to support NFC in their new phone.

NFC was cracked before it was even commonly available in phones by the same researcher who read (and cloned!) RFIDs from passports in the pockets of passersby from his car 10 meters away, in San Francisco.

He later proved that it was possible to gather "secure" information from NFC-equipped phones from 10 feet away, using concealed-on-person equipment that cost less than $200, even when they weren't engaged in a transaction! They just had to have NFC turned on.

NFC is not secure, and as long as it uses radio -- even radio at minuscule power -- transactions can be followed and cracked from a distance.

I haven't turned on the NFC on my phone since I bought it, and I don't really have any reason to.

Re:Trust us with your payments

[jo_ham]

The bank has your card number.

The way I believe it works, based on the video today, is that you take an image of your card with your phone and it combines it with a device ID and then creates a hash, then you need to do something with your bank to have it added to the apple pay system. Cue said something like "verify" - but he did not give specifics. I assume that this hash is given to your bank somehow during this step. From then on, payments are made using this hash, and it's a direct transaction between merchant and bank.

They were very clear that the card number is not stored on the phone itself - he said specifically "if your phone is lost or stolen then you can use find my iPhone to disable payments made using it and because your card details are not on the device, the thief doesn't have that either".

Re:Trust us with your payments

[iluvcapra]

They are still storing your credit card number somewhere. How is that different from storing a photo?

Just this year Apply wrote a very long, detailed white paper about exactly what the difference is. The short story is that, on a 5S, things like your password keychain, the unlock password itself and the signatures that sign the system and certificates is kept either in a secure enclave chip, or on a block of the flash media that the secure enclave can read and write, but the regular flash controller itself cannot address. This is a security tier itself that sits above the normal full-disk encryption of the phone (where your photos live), which is done with your unlock password.

Re:Trust us with your payments

[ewibble]

They don't have to be, although simply taking a picture of a card and being able to make purchases through an actual terminal is actually quite scary.

Credit card should always do a challenge response even over the internet, that is "plug" the credit card into the device, make the transaction.

An even simpler solution would be for the bank to txt/inform your cell phone as soon as possible that a credit card transaction has been made.

Frankly the only computer I am happy for my credit card details to be stored on is the banks, basically because I have no other choice, well actually they only need the public key as well.

Re:Trust us with your payments

[Anubis IV]

You do realize that they already have credit card numbers for over 500 million customers, right? And practically anything at all is more secure than what the US uses right now for retail payments. Based on what they said in the keynote, the phone stores your information in a dedicated hardware chip that's separate from the rest of the system, never transmits it to Apple or the retailer, makes use of one-use codes for actually making the payment, and secures it all behind a fingerprint scan. Given that my current options are either cash or a plastic card that can used by others if it's ever copied, memorized, stolen, or skimmed, this seems like a step in the right direction.

(also worth noting: the nude pics things affected pretty much all of the big tech players, not just Apple, and stretches back for years, though it obviously only just came to light in the last week or two when the images actually leaked into the general public)

Re:Trust us with your payments

[Maury Markowitz]

> Apple doesn't middle-man the banking/merchant transaction in their model.

*THAT* was the big takeaway from the announcement. They're not doing PayPal, they're simply providing tokens to the bank, like any NFC credit card.

That said, the film about the payment process falls on deaf ears anywhere outside the US. I did about four transactions today, three of them were tap-to-pay, one was cash. Having all my cards in one place and eliminating my wallet (I *rarely* use cash, maybe twice a week) is something worth paying for.

Re:Trust us with your payments

[Jeremiah Cornelius]

It's a chip'n'pin style arrangement - with your phone as the "chip" for all cards. Lose your phone? Disable it.

Home Depot and Target breaches wouldn't have been possible with this tech.

Re:Trust us with your payments

[rjstanford]

Its a very different proposition to have an "always on" proximity-activtated chip (such as those embedded into your credit cards) and one that's only active for a single transaction based on a physical finger-swipe. The whole point is that even when (not if) the communication is intercepted, what you end up with is like sniffing SSL traffic - you could replay the "Please pay Target $20 to fulfill exactly this invoice" conversation, certainly, but that's not particularly useful to a thief. Having the physical TouchID in the middle also ensures that the phone isn't chatting to just anyone at random times.

Re:Trust us with your payments

[Maury Markowitz]

> So if you lose or upgrade your phone you have to re-setup all your stored cards

Ummm, what do you do if you lose your wallet? Re-set up all your cards, very rapidly, using a *phone*. Then you wait for days while they arrive. Or you go in person to a *bank* and get a new one.

Whereas with this you simply take another photo of your card.

> If not then they're storing it in your device

Wow. Did you even bother reading ONE SENTENCE about how this works before coming here to complain?

Really, this is just making you look foolish.

Re:Trust us with your payments

[bruce_the_loon]

As long as the rotation pattern isn't discernible from past numbers and the number is only valid for a single transaction, then collisions shouldn't be a security issue. In fact not letting the full 1000 numbers cycle before re-randomizing the list would probably be a good thing.

As long as the randomization isn't predictable, and attempting to process a transaction with an invalid CVV forces a regeneration of a new one, it could be an incredibly hard system to crack. Then again, they could just be using a statically salted rand() call :)

Re:Trust us with your payments

[Jeremiah Cornelius]

I appreciate your concerns about NFC. But NFC is really a transport, not a privacy control. If simple privacy controls were implemented, relying on limited NFC range for reducing attack opportunity? That's a problem itself.

I am lead to believe that intercepted transactions with the Apple payment model are nearly useless. They may ultimately reveal predictable sequences, to establish later unauthorized transactions - but this is speculation. The transaction is privacy-protected with its own cryptographic tokenization and handshaking in the application design, which include having the device for 2-factor, not the SIM or IMEI, etc. Handshakes and transactions are one-time, limiting usefulness for spoof, replay, reuse, etc.

I'd be more worried about the twisted-pair or local wifi for in-store magstripe readers, than I would Apple payments.

Re:Trust us with your payments

[badboy_tw2002]

Most banks can already notify you by text. I have all my cards set up this way - any activity (charge, check, atm, anything) tosses a text to my phone. Most of the time if its run through one of those terminals I'll get the text in under 5s. Any payment I don't recognize I can instantly call the card company about, so there's no need to wait for a statement, you can do it in real time.

Re:Trust us with your payments

[ColdWetDog]

I trust no one with nude photos.

And we collectively breath a sigh of relief.

Re:Trust us with your payments

[Jeremiah Cornelius]

Chip'n'pin at scale - and not dependent on card-posession.

Re:Trust us with your payments

[jfengel]

Seconds ago I just had to type credit card information in six times before I managed to get every single thing just right. I'm usually not that fumble-fingered (it's a new card and I don't have the digits memorized yet), but I gotta say that it would have been nice to have had it read for me.

Re:Trust us with your payments

[Altus]

particularly when you enter the data by taking a picture of the card.

Re:Trust us with your payments

[DrXym]

On the plus side, if your credit card is hacked it's unlikely that someone will reveal pictures of it covered in semen.

Re:Trust us with your payments

[TomGreenhaw]

I believe there are a number of enhancements to NFC technology in this implementation that mitigates much of those old issues.

You have to use the fingerprint sensor to transmit a one time use token only valid for one specific transaction.

You aren't going to be able to walk by somebody and get their card info for a shopping spree with this protocol.

Re:Trust us with your payments

[Anubis IV]

Because Apple confirmed it was the case, security researchers confirmed their claim by investigating the hacking circles responsible for this stuff, and Apple wasn't the only one whose platform was hit (Google, Microsoft, Dropbox, and others were also affected). All of which has been readily-accessible public knowledge for over a week now.

https://www.nikcub.com/posts/n...

Re:Trust us with your payments

[MachineShedFred]

How is someone going to get you to put your thumb on the TouchID sensor while snooping the NFC radio from 10 feet away?

I'm pretty sure that if a payment screen randomly pops up while you're walking down the sidewalk, you'd have to be a complete fucking retard to put your thumb on the sensor instead of hitting cancel.

You can't just request cash from an iPhone and have it do it's thing - it uses confirmation through TouchID.

Re:Trust us with your payments

[BasilBrush]

Perhaps you should watch or read before you comment. You make the mistake of thinking that there's only one way to do an NFC payment system. Apple's payment system is indeed new, and does away with all the known security holes of your Android phone.

Apple's system isn't simply an NFC chip as used in payment cards in Europe. It gets a one off payment code from VISA or Mastercard or whoever for each transaction, using the device ID and TouchID. Unlike your device, a hacker can't just sniff this protocol and misuse it.

Re:Trust us with your payments

[teg]

. It's a good question if they'll put it in the cloud backup -- I don't use the Cloud backup features.

Passwords are only part of the backup if the backup is local and encrypted with a password - iCloud does not back up that part. You can, however, enable the iCloud keychain.

Re:Trust us with your payments

[marsu_k]

Right - so if hackers can just sniff this protocol, and with NFC cards being quite common nowadays here in Europe, why aren't we hearing about the widespread abuses? I know there haven't been any erroneous payments on my NFC-enabled card for the ~2 years I've had mine (unless the hackers have also managed to hack my bank statements, those bastards).

Re:Trust us with your payments

[jbolden]

Pictures are uploaded to iCloud. That's how the hack worked. The celebrities used bad security questions and so the hackers were able to "restore" from iCloud and then from there "restore" old pictures. The payment so far is not, though I imagine an iOS update will allow you to backup your payment information to iCloud at a later date.

Re:Trust us with your payments

[viperidaenz]

I did not RTFA.
Perhaps you should read too.
Contactless cards effectively transmit a one-time code too. You can't sniff an NFC payment transaction and use the data to do more transactions. Moving the card to the phone adds security - since you can turn NFC off on your phone but you can't on your contactless Visa/Mastercard.

They also work while you're out of cellphone/wifi coverage.

Re:Trust us with your payments

[stevencbrown]

I think we just found the goatse guy...

Re:Trust us with your payments

[Grizzley9]

He later proved that it was possible to gather "secure" information from NFC-equipped phones from 10 feet away, using concealed-on-person equipment that cost less than $200, even when they weren't engaged in a transaction! They just had to have NFC turned on. NFC is not secure, and as long as it uses radio -- even radio at minuscule power -- transactions can be followed and cracked from a distance.

He addressed this by saying each transaction is not the card number but a special one time use number. So even if it was "sniffed" during the transaction, you wouldn't have any valuable info.

Re:Trust us with your payments

[marsu_k]

It might not be an obscure possibility, but you make it sound like it would be a common problem, with criminals just waiting in line to suck your account dry. Which it evidently is not. Oh and regarding fingerprints, they are not so secure either.

Re:Trust us with your payments

[marsu_k]

I'm saying that if problems with NFC cards would be an even slight issue here, my bank would inform me of it - hell, they always inform me of the latest badly translated phising emails going around which basically no one replies to (and even if they did, the scammers would probably end up with nothing, they'd need to get two one-time codes out of 300 possible, not very likely - but I digress). But they don't. So I'm saying the threats seem to be on the same level.

Re:Trust us with your payments

[Lab Rat Jason]

While this is funny, Apple never promised a secure porn service... they are promising a secure payment system. It's possible they'll mess this up, but I'm willing to bet they'll become one of the best mobile payment systems.

Re:Trust us with your payments

[Lab Rat Jason]

Once again, its not about the technology, its about combining the technology with a smashingly good business relationship.

Amen brother! (or sister as the case may be)

This is how it gets done!

Re:Trust us with your payments

[Bing Tsher E]

Anybody dumb enough to use 'the cloud' for privatepersonal information is the victim.

Further, anybody dumb enough to buy a mobile device that doesn't have robust removable storage inthe form of some industry standard (i.e. an SD card slot) is a victim of a craven device vendor (i.e Apple or Google) who is deliberately trying to coerce them into putting their personal private information out on'the cloud.'

The meme needs to be: 'The cloud? How stupid!'

Sorry data miners. Now go foad.

Re:Trust us with your payments

[mattack2]

You mean you're outside the U.S., right?

I'm IN the U.S., and I almost never use cash. I use credit cards. (Yes, the store has to pay a fee, which theoretically comes back to all customers, but at each individual purchase, my price is the same.. or actually lower, if you count my cash back, plus it's more convenient.)

Re:Trust us with your payments

[Anonymous Coward]

Revolutionary: their devices have revolutionized or invented entire product categories. I'll allow it.

Invented: "inventing" something doesn't mean you're "the first and only guy who ever thought of doing this." I can invent a new method for secure payment based on NFC without inventing credit cards, NFC, and the idea of touch payment. I'll allow it.

Innovated: Plenty of innovative stuff in Apple's products. Much of it is in the Software, rather than the hardware - there's only so many ways you can put together a glass panel, a battery, a computer chip, and a cell radio. I'll allow it.

Groundbreaking: With the Apple Pay system, and starting with many CC companies on board at launch, Apple will break ground in moving the adoption of touch payment into the mainstream. I'll allow it.

You're like a Nomad owner critiquing the iPod. The stuff you seem to think matters in the product is not the stuff the general market cares about. Good luck to you in ever inventing anything people want to buy.

Re:Trust us with your payments

[demonlapin]

So is Apple getting a cut of every merchant fee? That's the part I haven't figured out yet.

Re:Trust us with your payments

[CycleMan]

So if someone steals your phone and buys something with it, they can receive and delete the text confirming their purchase?

Re:Trust us with your payments

[shmlco]

You take a picture of the card and that information is used to confirm with the bank that you're the card holder. The phone then gets a digital certificate that stored in the encrypted enclave and the photo is zapped. No credit card data is stored on the phone, nor on Apple's servers.

When you go to buy something the phone uses the cert to generate a one-time token and security code that's given to the merchant terminal via NFC and unlocked via TouchID.

The merchant doesn't get a name, doesn't get a card number, doesn't get a security code, and doesn't get a pin number, and as such, the thing is about a million times more secure than the existing magnetic swipe card system.

Re:Trust us with your payments

[XxtraLarGe]

So if someone steals your phone and buys something with it, they can receive and delete the text confirming their purchase?

They'd also need your fingerprint. If they have that, you probably have bigger concerns.

Re:Trust us with your payments

[guruevi]

That's the whole point of ApplePay from what I gather. You scan the card once and then there is a challenge-response system that authenticates NFC payments. The numbers actually never enter or leave the device beyond the initial authentication.

What you are asking for is basically what they've done. The device-merchant connection gets a one-time code, your phone gets a public key to sign things with and the private stuff remains with the bank.

Re:Trust us with your payments

[AmiMoJo]

If the data is on your phone, Apple can access it. Maybe they don't regularly do that, but if law enforcement comes asking or the NSA wants in I'm sure they get it.

Re: Trust us with your payments

[Anonymous Coward]

Who the hell do you think you are coming in here and interrupting out Apple bashing with your.... facts?!

Re:Trust us with your payments

[viperidaenz]

Huh? TFA doesn't say anything about one-off codes.

No, you did

It gets a one off payment code

Re:Trust us with your payments

[the_B0fh]

According to Apple's documentation, TouchID is so secure that even Apple can't get your fingerprint information out.

http://gizmodo.com/apple-final...

Re:Trust us with your payments

[narcc]

I'm pretty sure that if a payment screen randomly pops up while you're walking down the sidewalk, you'd have to be a complete fucking retard to put your thumb on the sensor instead of hitting cancel.

So you're saying that a sizable percentage of users are vulnerable then?

Re:Trust us with your payments

[sg_oneill]

Right - so if hackers can just sniff this protocol, and with NFC cards being quite common nowadays here in Europe, why aren't we hearing about the widespread abuses? I know there haven't been any erroneous payments on my NFC-enabled card for the ~2 years I've had mine (unless the hackers have also managed to hack my bank statements, those bastards).

Its happening all over the place dude. Theres a damn good reason I hacked the rfid chip thingo out of my card.

Re:Trust us with your payments

[Jane Q. Public]

Wrong. Look it up.

I don't have time right now, but HERE is one reference, though it might have been the same experiment.

Re:Trust us with your payments

[Jane Q. Public]

Sigh. I am short of time so I am reduced to repeating what I wrote to the other responder above, and the others will have to be satisfied with this answer as well:

That is incorrect. Credentials were hacked from NFC-enabled devices even before NFC was very common. There were several different methods used, but apparently it was not difficult at all. If I recall, it only required a device to spoof a legitimate terminal.

That is only one reference. The original researcher was named Christopher something. He was the same one who mounted an antenna in his car for reading RFIDs at a distance.

Re:Trust us with your payments

[Jane Q. Public]

I am not convinced. Even Android required interaction for an NFC payment, and the researchers were able to extract confidential credentials without user interaction.

I'm not claiming you're wrong. It could be so. But I'd have to see more information before I was convinced that it is internally much if any different.

Let me put it another way: if it was significantly different from other NFC transactions, it would require new terminals. Are stores going to buy different terminals just for iPhones?

Re:Trust us with your payments

[iluvcapra]

If the NSA wants your credit card number they're not going to get it from your phone. If law enforcement has a warrant they'll just ask your credit card company.

In the particular case of the TouchID data, the actual fingerprint image is only stored in RAM,and while it's in RAM, it's AES encrypted with a one-time session key known only to the TouchID hardware, the CPU does not have this key and cannot read it, it's stored in a secure enclave and made available only to the TouchID hardware. The collection of approved fingerprints is stored, encrypted, in a reduced and vectorized format that cannot be used to reconstruct the original fingerprint image.

The TouchID hardware does the actual work of fingerprint comparison, on an ASIC that doesn't share memory space with the CPU and only communicates with the CPU through the secure enclave.

Re:Trust us with your payments

[hawkinspeter]

I'd hazard a guess that your fingerprints are going to be all over your phone. (Which is why it's the stupidest biometric to use for a phone)

Re:Trust us with your payments

[AmiMoJo]

That "researcher" suckered you in by pointing out that a system not designed to be secure is, in fact, not secure. Take the passport example. The information read from the NFC chip is the same stuff printed in the passport. It isn't supposed to be secret or hard to read. The point is to make customs faster by making passports machine readable instead of doing manual data entry.

You may consider your passport number, name and date of birth a secret, but the government doesn't. Blame them, not the technology.

NFC has been used for payments in Japan for over a decade. Strangely there are no incidents of people with big antennas plundering the accounts of passers by. You might as well argue that TCP/IP is insecure - it is, but you are supposed to put the security layer on top.

Re:Trust us with your payments

[stealth_finger]

So you've got one of these new iPhones and you've checked it?

Do you really think that Tim Cook is going to go on stage in front of literally millions of viewers and say that if it isn't true? You DO realize, of course, that while it is not "verifiable" at this point, it will be in about a month.

'That's how we planned to do it at the time but because of reasons we had to change it' Look at the xbox 180. I'm not saying that it isn't going to work exactly the way they said or the opposite, only pointing that because the boss said something in front of millions of people doesn't set it in stone.

Re:Trust us with your payments

[LWATCDR]

" monetizing transaction"
Are you sure about that? I do not think that Apple is not taking at least a small cut of the transactions.
Also let's be really honest. The stores are already collecting the data as are the credit card companies.

This is really nothing more than Google Wallet but for the iPhone. That is a good thing IMHO since it means more stores will start taking NFC. The folks at the 7/11 where so impressed when I paid with my phone 2 years ago.

Re:Trust us with your payments

[LWATCDR]

That is impossible. The NFC chip is going to have to get some kind of key to create the one time payment codes for your credit card. It will have to talk to a PKI server someplace and send your cc number to the server so it can get the key to sign transactions. Is the PKI server located at the apple data center or is at the banks?
Your cc info will be sent to a server someplace at least once.

Re:Trust us with your payments

[NotDrWho]

I thought Apple was administering both.

Re:Trust us with your payments

[ganjadude]

I remember apple telling us that other data was only stored on the phone and there was no way for apple to get at it, until it was found that they were lying about it. I wanna say this was around the 3gs era of iphones.

Re:Trust us with your payments

[jabuzz]

The phantom transactions is because you end up paying for the same thing twice, once via standard chip and pin (well standard if you are not in the backwater that is the USA) and again via contactless NFC.

From memory it was down to till operator error at one particular shop (M&S to be precise) when they introduced contactless payment.

Re:Trust us with your payments

[countach]

I didn't hear Apple say explicitly that they are not somewhere getting their whiskers wet.

Re:Trust us with your payments

[NulDevice]

I don't think so. But I think they're expecting this to moves hardware units and tech licenses and promote the Apple brand, whcih while not probably as lucrative immediately as a small transaction fee, has the potential to draw a lot of people into their ecosystem.

Re:Trust us with your payments

[mattack2]

OK, so I presume you mean in other countries.

In the U.S., there are laws that prevent charging different prices for credit or cash. (Though yes, there is a loophole that you can list a "discount" for cash... Though, at least for me, gas [the only situation I noticed it used] was just as cheap or cheaper with credit card after counting the cash back, compared to other stations like Arco that do not take credit cards at all.)

But again, I agree that it costs the merchant something (but doesn't it save them time/money going to the bank to get change/bring cash in, and probably other time?)... Yet, at each individual purchase for me, it's as cheap or cheaper to use credit card, AND more convenient. I'd probably use credit card even without the cash back, for the convenience. Of course, I auto-pay in full every month, so don't pay any interest.

Re:Trust us with your payments

[Anubis IV]

Yeah, I had a similar conversation with my dad the day before the keynote, since I mentioned a few of my predictions and he pretty quickly tied it to the mark.

You should point out that the mark is supposed to be on their heads, not hands, so the watch shouldn't be a spiritual problem. ;)

Re:Trust us with your payments

[rtb61]

You are aware, that with credit card like payments, the onus of proof is upon the retailer not upon the credit card holder. However the current problem is failure to prosecute retailer's for fraudulent charges and the whole identity theft lie. A lie designed to throw the burden on individuals and away from credit card companies and retailers. A prime example of first class marketing by PR=B$ companies, got you all sucked into believing that the individual must prove their innocence, rather than the guilty people, the retailer and the credit card company must prove they did not intend to commit fraudulent charges ie that must prove that they were defrauded by someone impersonating you.

Re:Trust us with your payments

[Divebus]

So, you can lift a fingerprint with sticky tape and reconstruct the capacitive touch signature which includes the sub-epidural structure of the finger? It's a little harder than a picture of a fingerprint.

Re: Trust us with your payments

[Divebus]

Was that on purpose? If you backup the phone with encryption turned on, all the passwords get restored to the phone.

Re:Trust us with your payments

[rjstanford]

This is really nothing more than Google Wallet but for the iPhone. That is a good thing IMHO since it means more stores will start taking NFC. The folks at the 7/11 where so impressed when I paid with my phone 2 years ago.

Not at all. Google - like Paypal - actually inserts itself into the midst of the payment flow. Apple does not. They may be getting a couple of points on the backend, but that's a completely different technical and financial relationship than Google and the others have been trying to get.

Re:Trust us with your payments

[hawkinspeter]

No, you can use a 2400dpi photo of the fingerprint on the glass: http://www.zdnet.com/apple-iphone-fingerprint-reader-confirmed-as-easy-to-hack-7000021065/. It's not trivial, but it's certainly not beyond a determined attacker.

Re:Trust us with your payments

[SSG Bryan]

No

The whole point of the system is for Apple to get a really, really small slice of every transaction that their iPhone users conduct. Take every CC transaction you have made in the past year & multiply it by every iPhone users. That is a lot of fucking money.

Re: Trust us with your payments

[hawkinspeter]

I prefer a passcode as I don't leave my passcode around on every surface that I touch.

Lame

[Anonymous Coward]

Square, less space than a Nomad. Lame

Re:Lame

[NotDrWho]

The thing that disappoints me is the way they've done charging. When I heard "inductive charging" I thought they mean like a Qi or electric toothbrush at least. And I really like that idea. Just toss your watch down on a pad at night and pick it up the next morning. But reading more about it, it looks like the charger will actual be attached by a cable with a magnetic connector at the end. So you'll get all the energy inefficiency of inductive charging and all the inconvenience and connector wear-and-tear of standard cable charging--the worst of both worlds.

Re:Lame

[neoform]

Those chargers are incredibly wasteful. Placing the magnet right on the back of the watch is going to use a lot less electricity.

Re:Lame

[Jarik C-Bol]

Actually, I suspect that this is more efficient than "toss it on the pad" simply because the variables are closely controlled. The watch goes onto the charger in a particular way, which means all the magnetic fields are aligned precisely allowing for as much optimization as is possible. Besides, this opens up a market for fancy stands to hold the end of the charger, allowing you to have a little holder on your nightstand that you put your watch on, letting it double as a bedside clock or whatever. trust me, there will be all sorts of hipster "hand crafted bamboo AppleWatch charging stands" within a month or so.

Re:Lame

[macs4all]

The thing that disappoints me is the way they've done charging. When I heard "inductive charging" I thought they mean like a Qi or electric toothbrush at least. And I really like that idea. Just toss your watch down on a pad at night and pick it up the next morning. But reading more about it, it looks like the charger will actual be attached by a cable with a magnetic connector at the end. So you'll get all the energy inefficiency of inductive charging and all the inconvenience and connector wear-and-tear of standard cable charging--the worst of both worlds.

Inductive charging doesn't have to be wasteful. After all, we're really just talking about a Transformer, whose primary winding are in the "charger", and the secondary is in the device. That essentially is how every single power supply (with very rare exceptions, and leaving batteries out of this), works.

Depending on the frequencies, transformers can get pretty efficient, upwards of 90%, IIRC. And I assure you, that the AC signal that is going over the "gap" between the charger and the Watch is going to be in the high kiloHertz, or even MegaHertz, range, thus making the energy transfer pretty efficient.

Besides, we're talking about a WATCH battery; how many Joules do you really think they can fit into a battery that fits into that case?

Re:Lame

[fortfive]

I get the joke.

But the truth is, the thing is, in fact, lame. I had a nomad when the iPod came out. And my next device was an iPod. Because it was *awesome.* The interface was awesome, way easier to use in the car. It looked cooler. It was more portable. It had better sound quality and a better shuffle/random function.

The watch I wear, when I wear one, is 60 years old. It tells accurate time, but it's largely a fashion accessory for me. I knew why I had, and wanted better, portable mp3 players. I have no idea why I want a computerized watch. The *only* use which as been at all seemingly valuable is that it might alert me to notifications I might miss when my phone is in my pocket. But I check my phone frequently enough that it's not really an issue for me.

Now, when a watch can *replace* my phone, well, we'll really have something. As in, those holo-phone things in Star Wars. Even if the floating display was just 2D.

Also, while I'm ranting, I'm sore displeased that both iPhone options are bigger. It's fine to have the big one, I get why people like that. But have the smaller one be truly smaller. Heck, I think the iPhone 5 is too big.

Re:Lame

[Kielistic]

The charger for the Nexus5 is magnetic and holds/helps place the phone in the proper location and has some new-agey sticky crap on the bottom that allows it to be fixed in pretty much any position.

Re:Lame

[Altus]

honestly, if I have to take the watch off it does't matter how it charges. Still, it had to be something that didn't require an opening in the watch since it pretty much needs to be water resistant.

Re:Lame

[nine-times]

So you'll get all the energy inefficiency of inductive charging and all the inconvenience and connector wear-and-tear of standard cable charging--the worst of both worlds.

By having a magnetic connector that secures the watch in place, you're probably getting the maximum efficiency possible from the inductive charger by securing the watch in place. By having an inductive charger, it (a) doesn't require a plug, saving space in the device and making it easier to charge; and (b) doesn't leave metal connectors that would be exposed to sweat and weather.

Maybe there's a better solution, but it doesn't seem like a dumb way to go about things.

Re:Lame

[jbolden]

Also, while I'm ranting, I'm sore displeased that both iPhone options are bigger. It's fine to have the big one, I get why people like that. But have the smaller one be truly smaller. Heck, I think the iPhone 5 is too big.

The iPhone 5S is smaller than the HTC One mini, the Galaxy mini, the Experia compact... People have voted with their dollars they want bigger. It would be nice if the feature phones stepped up with some smaller form factors.

Re:Lame

[Electricity Likes Me]

A great watch is expensive and made in Switzerland. That's how watches work. Nothing about them makes any sense because the product is fundamentally not about time telling technology, except in an abstract "it's pretty awesome this is just gears and springs" sort of way.

This is not a good smartwatch at $350. It's a bad sportswatch - because it doesn't standalone from the iPhone, doesn't have GPS, and yet is in the same price bracket.

My personal opinion is that on deeper analysis the whole smartwatch thing is a deadend which is being pushed because it's looks achievable, rather then innovative. But there's some fairly obvious problems with what Apple has on display - and they're the same ones as every other smartwatch.

Re:Lame

[BasilBrush]

Switzerland is trusted for design of watches. Apple is trusted for design of computerized devices. And the 18 carat gold edition will certainly be more expensive than $350 for those that like a status symbol.

For sure this first generation watch needs an iPhone for some of it's features. But then the original iPod needed an Apple Mac for it's first generation, and that didn't stop it from becoming a huge hit product. More than the iPod, most people that might be early adopters of an Apple Watch will already be iPhone owners.

I doubt I'll be buying one either. But I do quite like the fitness feature. And I can see there is a big market there.

Re:Lame

[Bing Tsher E]

Real transformers have VERY closely coupled magnetic domains. Particularly transformers designed to be efficient. This is essentially a wall wart grade device where efficiency is fairly irrelevant.

Don't kid yourself that this method of coupling relates at all to efficient transformer design. Now, we know it's Apple, but it's not the second coming of the Altivec.

Re:Lame

[timeOday]

Actually it does matter. The Garmin watches (which also require daily charging) have page after page of complaints of problems charging, because the contact pins get dirty and corroded with sweat and grime. I have taken to keeping a piece of tape over the charging pins on mine, real classy. Apple's method sounds like a big upgrade to me.

Re:Lame

[Bing Tsher E]

It's very possible that this method of charging was mandated by safety considerations. A direct electric connection to a sweaty wrist worn device is sort of scary. Apple has to assume some of their customers (they bought Apple products , duh) will foolishly charge the watch while wearing it. This reduces the risk when they do.

Re:Lame

[Bing Tsher E]

Yes, it's from Apple. So it needs to have a splashy adjective (great, awesome, insanely great, etc.) to prepend the word that names it. Becuz: hype.

Re:Lame

[macs4all]

Real transformers have VERY closely coupled magnetic domains. Particularly transformers designed to be efficient. This is essentially a wall wart grade device where efficiency is fairly irrelevant.

Don't kid yourself that this method of coupling relates at all to efficient transformer design. Now, we know it's Apple, but it's not the second coming of the Altivec.

Oh, the (mostly) unrealized glory of Altivec...

But anyway, I would say that, with the fairly-precise alignment afforded by the magnetic "clasping", that this particular arrangement actually stands a fighting-chance of attaining decent field-coupling.

And, as I said before; this is a Watch battery. I would expect this thing to charge in well under an hour. And Apple simply could not afford to mess around with the stuff (and the space!) necessary to have a real, physical connection that was also reasonably waterproof.

Re:Lame

[Areyoukiddingme]

It's very possible that this method of charging was mandated by safety considerations. A direct electric connection to a sweaty wrist worn device is sort of scary.

It's not at all possible because it's not scary. All smart watches run on low voltage DC, just like every other battery-powered watch since the dawn of the electronic age. Human skin has no difficulty resisting the voltages involved. Have you ever licked a 9 volt battery? Or know someone who has? They don't have a burned tongue. And smart watches run on less than 9 volts. Sweat is only a corrosion problem, not a conductivity problem.

Household power should be low voltage DC, not AC. Edison was right, at short distances. It's much much safer than even the 110 AC we use in the US, let alone the higher voltages used elsewhere in the world.

Re:Lame

[exomondo]

But then the original iPod needed an Apple Mac for it's first generation

Only to do the initial sync of music, not when you're actually out and about using it. The watch requires an iPhone for many of its functions. Regardless of that I don't think I'd be interested in it, I have an iPhone - and will most likely go for the 6 Plus - but this "fitness tracking" fad just makes me thing of all those people who make the new years resolution to get fit and sign up for the gym but never go. Aside from those actually training for events I doubt people will get much use out of all this fitness tracking, it cannot responsibly make actual recommendations anyway.

Re:Lame

[AmiMoJo]

The killer app for watches and other wearables is Google Now. I don't know if Apple has anything like that, and to work it needs to know a lot about you. It's just so handy though, I can see a lot of people making that trade off.

I went to the airport recently. It had by flight details ready. Knew what gate I needed to go to. Deadlines for checking in. All just there without me having to ask or do anything. That kind of just-when-you-need-it information display is what will sell smart watches.

Re:Lame

[Wild_dog!]

Phone size will come down in the future I think, but a new paradigm will need to take place.
The phablet thing will last on the outmost 10 years. Then new tech will supplant it and folks will have other things to discuss.
I too like the idea of a smaller phone like my flip phones, but alas my eyes are getting weak and my fingers are getting fatter.
An iPhone Nano would be cool, except perhaps not as functional yet.
Can't wait for the technology that buries the big platters and makes them seem silly.

Re:Lame

[AmiMoJo]

Wireless charging is only slightly worse than a good quality wired charger.

http://www.wirelesspowerconsor...

Re:Lame

[jbolden]

Absolutely true. But we don't have good sales data on small vs. big for iPhone because Apple has limited product lines. We know that sales went up when Apple went from 3.5 to 4 inches but it is hard to read much into that since sales went up be similar amounts when they didn't increase size. For Android and to some extent Windows Mobile the big and small have been going head to head for years and consumers do vote. In theory there is no reason that people should need to switch to iPhone to escape big.

Re:Lame

[Geeky]

Google Now has gone downhill recently. It used to alert me to traffic problems on my commute at around the time I normally leave the office. Recently it's started alerting me an hour before (when the traffic is always worse), and repeating the notification when I clear it. It's also got inconsistent on other things - sometimes it tells me stuff, sometimes it doesn't. The email integration also only works for plain gmail accounts - not google apps accounts.

So from me it's close, but not that close. And it insists on taking up a home screen.

Re:Lame

[anjrober]

amen to this.
i have had many of the garmin watches, wearing the 610 now
the 610 magnetic connector was a step backwards from the previous clip connectors.
the 610 routinely gets dirty, won't charge, sometimes the charge actually drains the battery, etc.
the case has also started to rust and breakdown.
i still use it and love it but it could be much better
i'm a big fan of smart watches but given the need for an iphone to be paired with it, i'm not sure i will use the iwatch. i'll still likely try it but it sure won't displace my garmin. i can't run with my phone, too damn big.
i was hoping for more from apple

Re:Lame

[Altus]

You already had a player to compare it to, you had a device that had limitations that you wanted improved upon, it was easy to see why a better designed version would be an improvement.

It is harder with a new category of product. It was hard for me to see the appeal of the iPad, after all I already had a iPhone, why would I need a big one, but then I tried it and it was pretty bad ass, and once I owned one (which I needed for development purposes) it quickly became a huge part of my daily electronics usage and replaced my laptop for the vast majority of non development tasks.

I suspect this is similar, if you had a pebble and you were using it you would probably look a a device like this and instantly be able to see the ways it is better than the one you have, but since it is a type of device that nobody really has it is harder to understand the ways in which you would use it. This is not just a problem for apple but also for any other smart watch developer.

Re:Lame

[fortfive]

The problem with your theory, at least in my case, is that I knew why I wanted a portable mp3 player before I ever had one. I saved my pennies to get that first Jukebox. And with the first iPod, I was like, Perfection! (although it would be until 2d generation before I could afford one.).

The same with iPad, although it still doesn't really function the way I want it to. It is the best option, however, and when it came out, miles beyond anything else, like the iPod.

The iPhone, of course, was truly revolutionary.

The wearable I want is something akin to a TNG communicator, plus the Enterprise computer, plus a floating display a la Star Wars.

Alternatively, they could build in watch functionality into a watch band that I could attach to my existing watch, using its crystal as an HUD. But even then, it would mostly be a toy kind of thing, with limited utility.

Re:Lame

[steelfood]

A great watch is expensive and made in Switzerland.

You forgot to qualify what makes a watch great (it's not the mechanics or the features just in case you're wondering). Watches are great because of the style, and the limited availability.

People who collect watches, those are the guys with serious money. Most (real) Swiss watches cost more than limited edition top end luxury cars. Even the crappier Japanese and American watches begin at 4 figures and move up from there.

A watch is a fashion statement. Not a toy.

Now, sports watches are a different story. But those are specific-purpose watches, worn for very specific occasions. Nobody's going to go to a black tie party with a sports watch. Hell, nobody over the age of 10 is going to wear one of them while wearing anything fancier than a sweaty t-shirt and shorts.

The wearable electronics fad is never going to take off using watches as the core. It'd be more practical to focus on electronic headbands. Now glasses, there's something there. But electronics in glasses are off-putting to society for a variety of reasons, and Google really didn't help the situation by being the first one to it.

After All Those Lawsuits Against Samsung

[Anonymous Coward]

The new iPhone looks like a Samsung Galaxy. Considering I have been putting off upgrading my iPhone 4S till now, I'll be sure to express my indignation by asking the Apple Sales Genius about the new Galaxy 6 and how it compares to the Galaxy 6+. And every time they correct me, I'll look confused and say, "No -- that's clearly a Samsung Galaxy, you can tell by the rounded edges and the shape of the Main Button".

Re:After All Those Lawsuits Against Samsung

[viperidaenz]

That's what I've been telling everyone since the rumours it was going to get a 5+ inch screen. it's the Apple Galaxy S6.

Re:After All Those Lawsuits Against Samsung

[Enfixed]

In other news: Samsung has yet again copied Apples innovative efforts by introducing their own 5.5 inch screen device in a vain attempt to capture some of Apples newly created larger screen phone market.

Re:After All Those Lawsuits Against Samsung

[nine-times]

Yeah, how dare Apple copy the look and design of the phone that copied the iPhone's look and design!

Re:After All Those Lawsuits Against Samsung

[mythosaz]

Judge Koh? Is that you?

Re:After All Those Lawsuits Against Samsung

[pbjones]

looks more like an original 2G iPhone, rounded corners, flat back, just bigger.

Worst annoucment ever....

[Anonymous Coward]

Steve was so proud of how small the iPhone was. Only apple fanbois who wear cargo shorts need a giant phone. A one inch screen that goes on your wrist and does nothing without your phone.

Re:Worst annoucment ever....

[NotDrWho]

I think they were right to go with a larger phone. Let's face it, times have changed. And a lot of people (myself included) really like the idea of a 5.5" phone. My large fingers make a larger screen a godsend, and it's a lot easier on the eyes.

Re:Worst annoucment ever....

[uCallHimDrJ0NES]

Let's face it, we all agree with the assertion I'm about to make. Everyone does.

Re:Worst annoucment ever....

[rasmusbr]

I think they were right to go with a larger phone. Let's face it, times have changed. And a lot of people (myself included) really like the idea of a 5.5" phone. My large fingers make a larger screen a godsend, and it's a lot easier on the eyes.

As someone who has fairly big hands I had a hard time adapting from a 4" Android phone to my current 4.95" Nexus 5. I tried to use the big phone in the same way that I had been using smaller smartphones in the past, by holding the phone firmly in my hand and moving my thumb around the screen. The problem is that my thumb only reaches about 4.2 inches, so I kept trying to reach further than I could by over-reaching with my thumb. It got to the point where I had to switch to using my phone with my left hand out of fear of permanently injuring my right thumb (feel free to joke...).

I eventually learned that you should sort of slide the phone around your palm to align it with your thumb. Now I could probably adapt to a 5.5" phone, but I think I would go for the 4.7" one if I was an Apple user.

It's going to be interesting to hear if iPhone thumb becomes a thing now that there are no longer any "thumb-sized" new iPhones.

Re:Worst annoucment ever....

[Anonymous Coward]

Def worth a couple grand and my privacy to protect my big thumbs. Totally on board with this.

Re:Worst annoucment ever....

[CastrTroy]

There's a large percentage of people who don't have large hands. Most women, teenagers, and even some men do not have large hands. Personally, I'm of the idea that if I want a large screen, I'll use a tablet. There's very few situations I find myself in where I wish my phone were bigger. There's a lot of situations where a 5.5 inch phone would be too large to bring with me. But most of the time where it would be convenient to have a 5.5 inch phone, I could easily bring a 4 inch phone and a 7 inch tablet.

Re:Worst annoucment ever....

[Ranbot]

Large vs small hands is not the driving factor in increasing phone sizes.

The trend among smart phone owners is they are doing more conventional computing on their smart phones (e.g. email, web browsing, YouTube videos, banking, shopping, social media, etc.). These tasks are easier to accomplish with on a larger screen. For example my younger sister (27 years old) does not pay for cable or internet in her home, but has a [android] smartphone that she uses for ~90% of her computing needs. In the rare case she needs the full screen/keyboard she a PC at her work or she'll dust off her old lap top. This trend is even more pronounced in less affluent, but still technologically connected countries, like China, Korea, and Japan where smart phone users often have a smartphone, but no other computing alternative. Internationally, Apple products have been losing to Samsung's larger phones (aka "phablets") for a while now, but in the US the trend only became significant recently.

Re:Worst annoucment ever....

[Monoman]

and their aging customers who are having trouble reading the smaller screen .. .even with font sizes bumped up.

Follow the money.

Re:Worst annoucment ever....

[Noah Haders]

teenagers shouldn't have phones. its the responsibility of parents to monitor and manage the internet access of their children. this includes sexts and such.

Re:Worst annoucment ever....

[maglor_83]

Yes, a lot of people like a large screen. So since they're doing two sizes, why not make one of them small, or at least medium, instead of one large and one ridiculously large?

Re:Worst annoucment ever....

[Kalium70]

I need a large screen mostly because the screen is also the input device. The small size of the iPhone kept me from even considering it. The first time I used a smartphone was at the Apple Store. I could not even enter text reliably.

Re:Worst annoucment ever....

[LWATCDR]

You must be tiny. I have a GNex and it fits just fine in my front pocket of my jeans.

Incredibly bad live stream

[ArcadeMan]

Whoever was in charge of the live stream are a bunch of amateurs, incompetent idiots and should be fired, publicity shamed and never hired again.

Interlacing problems with the image, video looping, audio with no video, chinese audio on top of the english one, a stream so full of errors that it froze my Apple TV.

I stopped watching and I'll try later tonight, after Apple has cleaned up that fucking mess. What a joke.

I may be an Apple user and fanboy, but this time the Microsoft and Android fanboys can rip into Apple for this clusterfuck of problems, I'll be cheering for them.

Re:Incredibly bad live stream

[DigiShaman]

ISP problem. Or rather the infrastructure in the city. I'm sure the entire world just nuked the fiber connections. How long before local businesses sue over loss productivity?

j/k...sorta

Re:Incredibly bad live stream

[ArcadeMan]

Oh, the ISPs interlaced part of the video stream, did they? They made it loop? They added minutes of this image into the stream? They added chinese audio on top of the english one?

Like it or not, this was a total clusterfuck. Whoever modded my first comment above as flamebait is a blind Apple follower. And I say that as an Apple user. When shit happens, don't cover your ears and pretend nothing bad is happening.

Re:Incredibly bad live stream

[Anonymous Coward]

You probably held it wrong :)

Re:Incredibly bad live stream

[iluvcapra]

ISP problem.

The stuttering I can attribute to an ISP or the raw demand. But the ISP didn't stick crosstalk of a Cantonese interpreter over the English audio for the first 20 minutes.

Re:Incredibly bad live stream

[macs4all]

Whoever was in charge of the live stream are a bunch of amateurs, incompetent idiots and should be fired, publicity shamed and never hired again.

Interlacing problems with the image, video looping, audio with no video, chinese audio on top of the english one, a stream so full of errors that it froze my Apple TV.

I stopped watching and I'll try later tonight, after Apple has cleaned up that fucking mess. What a joke.

I may be an Apple user and fanboy, but this time the Microsoft and Android fanboys can rip into Apple for this clusterfuck of problems, I'll be cheering for them.

While I had some problems with the stream for about the first 1/2 hour or so, they eventually got it stable.

You do realize, of course, that that was likely hands-down, the most amount of streaming viewers of any single internet broadcast, right?

But I am pretty sure there are meetings going on right now at Apple, and some streaming "experts" are seeing another side of Tim Cook...

Re:Incredibly bad live stream

[Russ1642]

The number of streaming viewers doesn't cause these kinds of errors. That's like saying "You exceeded the maximum capacity of your garden hose. That's why blood came out instead of water."

Re:Incredibly bad live stream

[DigiShaman]

What, you didn't like a bad case of Groundhog Day? Dude, I loved it. Like when they showed the opening to the Watch in space and it froze at a black screen. Killer cliffhanger right there. Makes you wanna punch someone in the nose doesn't it?!

Seriously, this was to be expected. MELT DOWN

Re:Incredibly bad live stream

[ArcadeMan]

I didn't say there was image quality issues. I didn't say there was image compression issues. I didn't say the stream lagged.

All the problems I described aren't a bandwidth problem at all. All the bandwidth on the planet would never have solved those problems because they were at the source and whoever was in charge probably is looking for another job right now, hopefully in another industry.

Re:Incredibly bad live stream

[sootman]

I had all those problems with the stream too. (The interlacing, especially, made me LOL.) Tried to watch for about the first third, then gave up. It also jumped back in time repeatedly, sometimes all the way to the beginning. At one point it was JUST getting good, then it bounced back a few minutes to the middle of the game demo.

One more problem: the stream problems led to problems with the web pages themselves, if you were watching it in a browser. And since the stream was embedded into the apple.com homepage -- not jus the /live/ page but the homepage itself -- I now have a screenshot of an error right on www.apple.com.

Extra bonus funny: coverage at theverge.com got images up BEFORE I saw them on the "live" stream. Obviously the stream was buffered a bit, but DAMN those guys at The Verge were FAST. They're getting pretty good at this. Multiple text posts and pictures EACH MINUTE. I don't like much about the verge, but their event coverage is pretty great.

At least #livestream on twitter had a LOT of funny comments to pass the time with.

Re:Incredibly bad live stream

[ArcadeMan]

To be honest, I always thought that interlaced video is something that should have died when we switched to digital.

Re:Incredibly bad live stream

[tlhIngan]

While I had some problems with the stream for about the first 1/2 hour or so, they eventually got it stable.

  You do realize, of course, that that was likely hands-down, the most amount of streaming viewers of any single internet broadcast, right?

  But I am pretty sure there are meetings going on right now at Apple, and some streaming "experts" are seeing another side of Tim Cook...

It may be the most viewers (it certainly took down apple.com for a couple of minutes at a time when it just returned permission denied), but it's supposed to be flawless.

Apple isn't new to livestreams - this is probably the 4th or 5th they've done. It was started as a way to crash their new datacenter for iCloud - just have everyone with an iOS device or AppleTV go and watch it live and see how many bits they can push out.

And Apple can push the bits out, but their servers started collapsing under the load (which is unusual in an of itself). And the whole Chinese translation thing was completely odd.

And yes, it's something Apple typically prepares for because it's planned out way in advance. So I do find it inexcusable that the live stream had those flaws because Apple prides themselves for practicing, anticipating and handling practically every conceivable situation. They even have "audience member has emergency" as part of the contingency plan and a way to quietly remove them and give them the aid they need without disturbing or disrupting the whole event.

So no, sorry. The people behind iCloud and the livestream do deserve to be ripped a new one for these flaws. Because they are supposed to have everything down pat weeks in advance. About the worst I can excuse is if the stream stops and requires reloading the page to resume because the local CDN got overloaded. But that takes only 30 seconds tops.

Re:Incredibly bad live stream

[Em Adespoton]

You guys are lucky you got such an entertaining livestream.

Mine had this spinning animation and one word:

Loading...

Re:Incredibly bad live stream

[Grizzley9]

Thought I was the only one with problems. Noticed it via wifi and 3G. My Apple Tv froze up and blanked out numerous times. I think I unplugged it twice before it would be responsive. Then the 2nd asian audio overlay and the looping video was horrible, and that was when i could connect. For much of the first 1/2 hr, it was very spotty and then would error out.

Re:Incredibly bad live stream

[BasilBrush]

Sounded like Japanese to me. But I could be wrong, I don't speak either.

And that image only lasted as long as it took for you to decide to refresh the page.

Streams suffer when there are huge audiences for occasional events. It's not unusual. It's not a matter of the people not working hard, or the software being buggy, it was just overloaded at whatever the bottleneck was. If there weren;t so many people interested in Apple's next product category it would have ben fine. ... except for that Japanese translation. What was that?!

Re:Incredibly bad live stream

[guruevi]

I also think it was a feed routing issue with the CDN. First I get a Chinese feed, the feed halts, reloading sometimes it started over from the beginning, sometimes it didn't. Then later on the feed keeps getting interrupted and I get a test card with an Australian TV schedule.

Re: Incredibly bad live stream

[macs4all]

I am NOT apologizing for Apple; just trying to understand why this happened.

And it is obviously the fault of whoever Apple HIRED to handle the "broadcast". Because I doubt that even a company the size of Apple maintains a "Video Truck".

THOSE are the people who deserve to burn; because there really is no denying it, it sure seemed to be amateur-hour in the "video truck".

Using the six degrees of separation, does anyone here know who handled the "broadcast"/streaming duties? Anyone in CA remember SEEING that video truck, or know anything about all this?

Re:Incredibly bad live stream

[Mr_Silver]

Whoever was in charge of the live stream are a bunch of amateurs, incompetent idiots and should be fired, publicity shamed and never hired again.

According to this article there were a number of issues which were all caused by Apple rather than Akamai:

The bottom line with this event is that the encoding, translation, JavaScript code, the video player, the call to S3 single storage location and the millisecond refreshes all didn't work properly together and was the root cause of Apple's failed attempt to make the live stream work without any problems. So while it would be easy to say it was a CDN capacity issue, which was my initial thought considering how many events are taking place today and this week, it does not appear that a lack of capacity played any part in the event not working properly. Apple simply didn't provision and plan for the event properly.

I don't know enough about streaming to comment on the validity of the assertions made.

Re:Incredibly bad live stream

[wbo]

The stuttering I can attribute to an ISP or the raw demand. But the ISP didn't stick crosstalk of a Cantonese interpreter over the English audio for the first 20 minutes.

Actually the audio problems appeared to be an issue with the video playback in Safari (and perhaps other players as well). When this happened I looked at some of the chunks of the stream and found that there were 2 audio channels in the stream, one for each language.

For some reason Safari decided to play both audio streams at the same time instead of offering a choice of which audio stream to play. This is most definitely a player bug and not a problem with the live stream itself but it is sad that in 2014 Apple's players don't handle multiple audio streams properly.

I don't know which is worse, the player bugs or the fact that Apple attempted to use multiple audio tracks in their stream which their own players don't support!

Re:Incredibly bad live stream

[countach]

You're going to blame Apple because your Mandarin isn't up to scratch? Such a pedant. If you'd gone to iTunesU, I'm sure you could have quickly downloaded a course on it.

Re:Incredibly bad live stream

[Lord Flipper]

I had the same issues, logged-in from the SF Bay Area, but after 15 minutes of crazy, I VPN'd to Brazil, and guess what? Fifteen minutes went by before there was a trace of a problem with the stream.

So, I disconnected, and reconnected to Switzerland and all was well until 15 seconds after the first shot of the Apple Watch.Then it got bumpy for a minute, so I reconnected to Mexico, and blazango! No more issues.

A good chunk of the problem was in the fall-back thing; as the servers crashed under load the "color bar" (for want of a better label) popped up. As for the Chinese overdub, well, that wasn't on the streams from the distributed servers around Switzerland, Mexico and Brazil.

So, who knows? My VPN is encrypted, both the content, and the tunnel. No throttling anywhere, because it can't be ID'd as a VPN tunnel. Nice. (and, of course, IP readers don't see any proxy, either... extra nice).

That being said, there were some issues, on Apple's end, no doubt, but crappy traffic management in the US was a huge part of the annoyance.

So what exactly is the market here.

[Adambomb]

A gigantic set of the population is no longer even used to the concept of wearing a watch, because they have their phone. This device doesn't replace their phone. What exactly is the reason to have this as well, as opposed to pulling your phone out of your pocket?

Unless some company comes up with a functionally independent wearable device that replaces the need for keeping your phone with you I do not see the appeal. I don't understand what the pitch is supposed to even be. Literally every functionality can be responded to with "but i have my phone right here, it also does that and better"

Re:So what exactly is the market here.

[Anonymous Coward]

How many people are wearing fitbits, etc, for fitness? There's a lot of advantage for the fitness and health monitoring stuff to having something on your wrist.

Not to mention, for navigation, simple text messaging, seeing the time,... to be able to use 70% of the functional surface of your phone by glancing at your wrist is nice. Especially since women aren't allowed to have pockets and so the device is even harder to get to :P

Re:So what exactly is the market here.

[godawful]

No wireless. Less space than a Nomad. Lame.

Re:So what exactly is the market here.

[gstoddart]

Believe it or not, some of us still wear watches every day.

At any given time, I might have to track down where in the house my phone is. I also know I can go swimming in any of my watches and they'll be just fine.

So, I want neither the smart watch, nor to be tethered to my phone all the time.

I had lunch with a former co-worker a month or so ago ... and the first thing I noticed was he was wearing a Samsung smart watch. He seemed to think it was great and that he could be quite far from his phone. I couldn't see the point.

Some of us geezers will still continue to wear watches which don't do anything related to our phones.

But, hey, buy whatever toy floats your boat, it's not a one size fits all thing.

Me, when I'm actually wearing a shirt and tie, I'll stick with one of my old fashioned automatic skeleton watches or a spiffy chronograph.

Maybe one of these days I'll learn to tie a bow tie and get one of them fancy tweed driving caps. ;-)

Re:So what exactly is the market here.

[parallel_prankster]

I had the same thought earlier but I think there is a market for a wearable which is not as bulky as a phone and allows you to be in sync with a main device like a phone which you can use when large screen size is needed or maybe when calling someone. I am not sure that a "watch" is really the answer to that problem. But it is easier to read messages/notifications or do some tasks using a watch than having to get the phone out of the pocket. Even Apple hasnt really come up with great solutions to how do we respond to the millions of notifications we are going to get. At some point I think people are going to get tired of having to lift their hands and turn their wrists to read/send messages. I always thought the Google glass was a good solution to this problem but alas it got bad publicity by being always on.

Re:So what exactly is the market here.

[chispito]

A gigantic set of the population is no longer even used to the concept of wearing a watch, because they have their phone. This device doesn't replace their phone. What exactly is the reason to have this as well, as opposed to pulling your phone out of your pocket?

The phone is big and needs to be unlocked to view texts/emails. I started wearing a watch again after 10 years without because I got tired of pulling my (dumb) phone out of my pocket. It's also a way for people who wish to be seen using Apple products to be seen using Apple products.

Re:So what exactly is the market here.

[metlin]

If you're just going by features, then there have been many other products out there that have been much better than the Apple counterpart.

From the iPod to Macs, Apple rarely tries to win on features and specs. Their products are often good enough, but not great.

Re:So what exactly is the market here.

[kamapuaa]

Because right now, Apple faithful only need a single iphone. If it was possible, Apple would love to sell them a second iphone for their other hand, but that doesn't quite work due to usability issues. This technology boldly allows people to have an iphone for both their left and their right hand.

Re:So what exactly is the market here.

[uCallHimDrJ0NES]

People keep mentioning the Nomad. We're talking about the portable Sega Genesis with the built-in screen, right? Because I refuse to believe you're talking about something else. Personally, I like my Nomad, but I've noticed that with EA carts, you have to put a piece of paper or cardboard in behind the cartridge to get the contacts to touch properly. Otherwise, NHL '94 for the win. No way I'm playing NHL '94 on an iWatch.

Re:So what exactly is the market here.

[neurovish]

A gigantic set of the population is no longer even used to the concept of wearing a watch, because they have their phone. This device doesn't replace their phone. What exactly is the reason to have this as well, as opposed to pulling your phone out of your pocket?

Unless some company comes up with a functionally independent wearable device that replaces the need for keeping your phone with you I do not see the appeal. I don't understand what the pitch is supposed to even be. Literally every functionality can be responded to with "but i have my phone right here, it also does that and better"

Isn't it inconvenient to keep pulling something out of your pocket whenever you want to check the time though? Wouldn't it be better if you could do the same exact thing by just looking at your wrist?

Re:So what exactly is the market here.

[mark-t]

Because it doesn't necessarily still work. I have an iphone that is nearly 3 years old and the home button is very nearly worn out, frequently only working intermittently.

Re:So what exactly is the market here.

[Uberbah]

People keep mentioning the Nomad.

They're quoting CmdrTaco, who used those exact words to describe the original iPod upon it's announcement. Damn kids these days....

Re:So what exactly is the market here.

[rasmusbr]

What exactly is the reason to have this as well, as opposed to pulling your phone out of your pocket?

Unless some company comes up with a functionally independent wearable device that replaces the need for keeping your phone with you I do not see the appeal. I don't understand what the pitch is supposed to even be.

I believe the pitch goes something like this: In a world populated by very lazy and impatient people, the Apple watch allows you to get much of the functionality of your phone without pulling your phone out of your pocket. It also has an Apple logo on it.

Re:So what exactly is the market here.

[frinkster]

Maybe one of these days I'll learn to tie a bow tie and get one of them fancy tweed driving caps. ;-)

Unless you're going someplace where people know what a real bow tie looks like, everyone is just going to think that your "bow tie" is falling apart.

Re:So what exactly is the market here.

[sribe]

I don't know about that. I see the argument, but, the whole "I'll just pull my phone out of my pocket" argument seems to me like it might only be accurate 90% of the time, for nearly everybody. So, how many people will buy it for that 10% of the time?

For instance, when I'm skiing mid-week but staying available for work such that clients don't even know... When my phone rings, just pulling it out of my pocket to check who's calling is actually kind of a pain in the ass--depending on temp and what gloves I'm wearing, sneaking a peek at my wrist is potentially much easier, and depending on what accessories come out, who knows, I might even be able to arrange to have it somewhere even easier to check...

Similar arguments might apply to running, cycling, rowing, etc.

Re:So what exactly is the market here.

[Suffering Bastard]

Your point is well taken, although I can see that the watch has value with regard to the fitness apps. Since the watch can monitor your heartbeat, it can give you stats and make recommendations that a phone can't. The fitness apps Apple is providing look very impressive. Also, little features like tapping your wrist to tell you when to make a right or left turn while walking are nice to have. Over time other uses for the watch will likely appear that can't be replicated on a phone. Not to mention it is still something of a convenience to glance at your wrist rather than pull a phone out of your pocket.

Clearly this device is for people with the disposable income to afford it, it's certainly not a must-have technology for most people. But it seems reasonable to expect it'll be popular with the rich and Apple faithful.

A gigantic set of the population is no longer even used to the concept of wearing a watch, because they have their phone.

Apple took away the people's need for watches -- and now is giving it back again.

Re:So what exactly is the market here.

[iluvcapra]

Those of us with 6-digit IDs remember. You see, there were once companies called Creative Labs, and Rio, and they made these iPhone like things, except they couldn't make phone calls and couldn't text, they just played music (and maybe they came with Breakout if you were lucky).

Re:So what exactly is the market here.

[Anonymous Psychopath]

A gigantic set of the population is no longer even used to the concept of wearing a watch, because they have their phone. This device doesn't replace their phone. What exactly is the reason to have this as well, as opposed to pulling your phone out of your pocket?

Unless some company comes up with a functionally independent wearable device that replaces the need for keeping your phone with you I do not see the appeal. I don't understand what the pitch is supposed to even be. Literally every functionality can be responded to with "but i have my phone right here, it also does that and better"

I didn't think there was a market for a full-screen touchphone or a giant tablet either. Obviously I should not go into product marketing because I don't know shit about what people want, but Apple seems to have it figured out pretty well.

Re:So what exactly is the market here.

[Anubis IV]

I'm a major Apple fan, and even I don't understand what the pitch is supposed to be. It does do some things differently or better than the phone, and it also does some things the phone can't do at all (e.g. measure your heart rate throughout the day), but by and large, I just don't get it yet.

It kinda reminds me of the iPad, where you could tell that they thought they had something special, but that they hadn't yet figured out what all it could do or why it would appeal to people. The advertising focused more on the emotions and feel of the device, rather than on specific use cases. A year later, and the ads were more focused, as was the language they used to describe it in keynotes and other communications.

I think they believe the same thing is true here: they believe they've created something different that developers can use as a platform to make all kinds of cool new things using the cool new sensors it has, but they don't know what those things will be. But they're clearly excited by it, so maybe they know something I don't.

I get the sense that I'll either need to get my hands on one or else listen to a lot of people who have their hands on them before I'll have any concept at all of whether or not it even might serve a purpose in my life. The most exciting feature for me was mentioned in a throwaway line right at the end of the keynote, where they rattled off a handful of random uses some of them have had for it, and mentioned controlling an Apple TV from it: something other devices can already do, of course, but I'd love to see a watch that can interact with smart devices around the home (e.g. locking and unlocking doors, turning on/off lights, dimming the lights when I sit down in the media room, etc.), including something like my media center. But I don't know which, if any, of those things it can do or will be able to do in the near future.

As things stand now though, it's definitely a, "Well, that's neat, but *shrug*" for me.

Re:So what exactly is the market here.

[sootman]

What is exactly is your threshold for when a product should be created? That it does everything? That everyone likes it? Apple will sell METRIC SHITLOADS of these and do just fine, thankyouverymuch.

MOST Apple products are a little overpriced and underspecced upon release. Look at the original iPod -- it was indeed expensive, had no wireless, and "less space than a Nomad." Then it TOOK OVER THE WORLD. The MacBook Air was a little slow and $1699 or $1799 at launch, and then OH LOOK, the WHOLE PC INDUSTRY tried to copy it with the whole "ultrabook" thing, and by the way Airs start at $899 now.

So yeah, the first batch will be sold to people who are willing to spend $349 to see texts without digging out their phone. Then they'll get cheaper, more powerful, and more useful over the next few years. There is LOTS that could be done here. Maybe they'll create the pico-SIM and you'll be able to use it without your phone, and they'll push telcos into supporting it for free since it uses so little data. Etc etc etc. THIS IS JUST REV ONE. Stay tuned. And if you don't like it, don't buy it. Get a pebble or a moto or a samsung or whatever. Or don't. Apple will do just fine without you.

And finally, "a gigantic set of the population" DOES still wear watches. Apple became the most valuable company in the world JUST A FEW YEARS after introducing the iPhone, the original target of which (as announced by Steve Jobs at MWSF, January 2007) was just 1% of the phone market. A product at which Steve Ballmer famously laughed. Don't worry about Apple. They'll do OK with 1% of the watch market, too.

Re:So what exactly is the market here.

[macs4all]

What exactly is the reason to have this as well, as opposed to pulling your phone out of your pocket?

Because you don't have to fumble-fuck around with your phone, pulling it out of your pocket.

I was the first to say "Why?" about a Watch; but as usual, Apple has pretty much nailed the UI, and when they make it so you can answer calls from your Phone on the iWatch, then the idea will really make sense.

I can't tell you how many calls I have missed, or nearly missed, because I was trying to fish my phone out of a shirt pocket, let alone a pants pocket. Being able to answer calls on a wrist-mounted (and therefore instantly accessible) device, would be a huge.

Did I miss it, or is that possible with the Apple Watch already. I know you can do Messaging (which is cool, too); but I'd really like to be able to at least answer, if not place, a voice call, too.

Re:So what exactly is the market here.

[Adambomb]

See, now what you describe I could see having a market. Especially with advances in flexible displays some sort of comfortable short bracer like wrist device with decent screen real estate and the ability to incorporate phone functionality, whether in itself or by bluetooth sync to the phone in your pocket, would be much more of a development.

Re:So what exactly is the market here.

[macs4all]

The phone is big and needs to be unlocked to view texts/emails.

This.

I wonder how many iPhone users, including me, would be more likely to use a Passcode on their phones if they didn't have to mess with "unlocking" for every little thing?

Re:So what exactly is the market here.

[Your.Master]

The watch doesn't seem very feminine, but it makes me think about how women's clothing often has nonfunctional pockets, so phones are stashed in purses where they are considerably less convenient.

I also immediately think of situations where I'm phoneless, such as when I'm swimming, or I'm carrying stuff (easy to turn wrist, hard to dig out of pocket), or I'm just wearing something that doesn't have pockets even though I'm not a woman, or even while I'm using the phone for something else like talking with somebody. There's also the fact that my watch battery goes out after years and my phone does not last so long, but I doubt the smartwatch can keep up.

We also have to recognize that wristwatches displaced pocketwatches, so it seems like the wrist form factor was generally considered to be an advantageous by much of the population, not matter how disdainful you are of virtually everyone over decades.

Doesn't mean I necessarily think watches have to be smart. I'd put myself in the "unconvinced" category.

Re:So what exactly is the market here.

[Anonymous Coward]

A personal watch is what it's always has been. A mark of status.
They're one of the few pieces of jewlery men have to wear.

Oh, they'll be bought en-mass, make no mistake, but the "old fashioned" watches will still be there just catering to a smaller clientele and at much higher prices.

Re:So what exactly is the market here.

[mydn]

I also know I can go swimming in any of my watches and they'll be just fine.

I understand some of your points, but not this one. I can go swimming with my phone and it will be fine, too.

Re:So what exactly is the market here.

[asylumx]

I agree with you, but that doesn't mean I think they shouldn't make & market them. Who knows, maybe this will turn into something I find useful in a few years. As for now, this is overpriced for its capabilities and I don't like the extreme level of vendor lock-in we're seeing here -- but other people won't mind those factors and they are welcome to be the guinea pigs!

Re:So what exactly is the market here.

[rsimpson]

A gigantic set the population used to use pocket watches and I'm sure when someone strapped the pocket watch their wrist, everyone thought, "Whats the point? I have my watch in my pocket!".

I imagine having your phone on your watch makes it easier to see what the time is, who is calling, when your next meeting is when you are in a sitting position wearing jeans, and would struggle to get you phone out. Or are a clutz, and have a habbit of easily dropping your phone into the toilet when trying to see if your wife has phoned you while out at the pub. Or you are out running, and using your phone to play music and want to change the song, but it is cumbersome to get the phone out while running and try bring up the music app to tap skip while also paying attention to your surroundings.

Just because your phone solves all technical aspects of your daily life, it doesn't mean it fills the practical aspects of it.

Re:So what exactly is the market here.

[nabsltd]

When my phone rings, just pulling it out of my pocket to check who's calling is actually kind of a pain in the ass--depending on temp and what gloves I'm wearing, sneaking a peek at my wrist is potentially much easier

A bluetooth headset that speaks caller ID is even easier.

Seriously, if you feel you must have your phone with you while actually on the slope, then you don't understand the concept of "time off". If your clients feel they are so important that not getting back to them in an hour or two will cost you their business, then you are even worse off than someone living paycheck to paycheck.

Re:So what exactly is the market here.

[typhoonius]

I wear a watch every day as well, partly because it's a more convenient and graceful way to tell the time than pulling out my phone and partly, I suppose, as a bit of a quaint affectation.

However, a big part of it is also that a good-looking watch is fashionable and attractive. None of the current crop of smart watches are anything close to fashionable, and I was convinced Apple would be the company to bridge that crucial gap and create a smartwatch that people would wear even if it didn't do anything cool (something like this mock-up). I don't see the Apple Watch as being such a device. Maybe the whole concept is stillborn. Maybe it'll be an awkward stepping stone on the path to more wearable and increasingly intimate tech (like the Newton and Palm Pilot were indirect antecedents of the iPhone). Maybe this thing will defy my expectations and sell like crazy. Who knows? But I don't see myself wearing one (or any of its competitors).

Re:So what exactly is the market here.

[Rich0]

That is about where I am with Android Wear. All things being equal I'd love to have a watch that can use NTP, display notifications, and do Google Now (the "equivalent" of Siri). However, it costs WAY more than a watch and needs daily recharging. I just don't get enough notifications when I'm not already staring at a phone/PC to benefit from this.

Maybe the killer app will emerge, maybe it will cost $30 some day, or maybe my needs will change. At that point I might own one.

Re:So what exactly is the market here.

[jellomizer]

I have the same problem with mine. But the issue is about speed.
After 3 year web pages do more and more and you need a faster method just to view pages.

Also there is a style factor too. I know we are not suppose to look cool or trendy. But if you have an old phone you do look like you are too cheap.
I am not proposing going out and getting the next phone every generation... But get one when you realize your old phone is getting out of date.

Re:So what exactly is the market here.

[Karganeth]

Perhaps its more of a fasion statement than for practicality. Sort of like beats headphones *smirk*.

Re:So what exactly is the market here.

[jfengel]

That's kind of an interesting thought: a new market for storing your phone close enough to your device to work but not necessarily accessible.

My first thought was a kind of belt; I use something like that to hold my phone when I run. But that would ruin the line of most dresses.

Next thought... a garter? It wouldn't fit under close-fitting pants but it would fit under a dress. It could even be a kind of fashion accessory, in a "Oops, I showed you my phone, how naughty" kind of way: make it frilly or colorful. Getting it tight enough to hold a heavy phone securely without cutting off circulation would be a challenge. I never did figure out how it was supposed to work on the upper arm, but people make it work.

Re:So what exactly is the market here.

[eepok]

Just a quick correction because I see a lot of people buying Fitbits without understanding what they actually do. And then returning them.

Fitbits are very simple devices that act as an accelerometer, pedometer, altimeter, and a watch.

Worn Fitbits do not monitor your health or fitness. They cannot tell you if you're sick, developing cancer, or at risk for heart disease. They cannot tell you your BMI, your body fat percentages, glucose levels, or blood pressure. They can't tell you if you need a recovery day or if you're about to pass out due to dehydration.

Fitbits are not substitutes for regular medical visits. It sounds nitpicky, but as a go-to nerd, I've had to explain this to too many people who then feel dumb for the purchase. Everything you think your Fitbit is doing for you, you can do on your own or don't need to do in the first place.

Re:So what exactly is the market here.

[Bogtha]

What exactly is the reason to have this as well, as opposed to pulling your phone out of your pocket?

I'm not inclined to wear a watch either, and I'm going to get one. My reasons are:

• As you said, the alternative is pulling your phone out of your pocket. It's more convenient looking at your wrist, especially with the larger iPhone sizes. Ever had an extended iMessage group chat? It's a hassle looking at your phone every minute. Also, when you're going for a run, the difference between looking at your watch and looking at your phone is massive.
• Apple Pay. It's convenient to just wave your wrist over a sensor to pay. It would be brilliant if this could replace Oyster cards for the London tube.
• Health monitoring. Decent heart rate monitors are fairly expensive for what they are and are often a hassle to wear. If it's something I'm going to be paying for and wearing anyway, that's better than the standalone option.

Re:So what exactly is the market here.

[sribe]

Seriously, if you feel you must have your phone with you while actually on the slope, then you don't understand the concept of "time off". If your clients feel they are so important that not getting back to them in an hour or two will cost you their business, then you are even worse off than someone living paycheck to paycheck.

Seriously, the fact that I can ski Wed - Fri nearly every week all season long, is great ;-)

Seriously, the fact that they don't even need to know what my schedule is, is great ;-)

Seriously, I've taken on some important obligations wrt supporting systems that are important to patient care, and I really need to be available during normal working hours. As far as my clients thinking they're so important, well, it's me that thinks that, not them ;-)

Re:So what exactly is the market here.

[Altus]

only if you suck at tying it

Re:So what exactly is the market here.

[Altus]

I started locking my phone when I got a phone with touchID. It works extremely well and the phone is usually unlocked before I even see the screen. Before that it was too much of a pain to unlock and it wasn't worth it to me

Re:So what exactly is the market here.

[saleenS281]

So, here's an example: Every woman ever. Unless they're wearing jeans (and even then) women usually keep their phone in their purse. What happens when you're in a movie/church/important meeting and your phone starts ringing because you forgot to put it on silent? You get to scramble to try to find the phone and mute it. Having the ability to swipe at your watch would be a godsend. Is it worth $300? I suppose that depends on your income, but for a lot of people, absolutely.

Hell, as a guy *I* am considering it, just because in some situations I run into the exact situation (wearing a suit, phone in an inside pocket). Plenty of people with enough expendable income to justify a $300 purchase when it doubles as a beautiful watch. When you consider what most "premium watches" cost, you're getting the "smart" portion for free.

Re:So what exactly is the market here.

[Altus]

there was an indication for call under the contacts picture on the watch along with one for messaging. It also has a microphone and a speaker. They didn't lay out everything the watch could do but that might very well be part of it.

Re:So what exactly is the market here.

[93 Escort Wagon]

Those of us with 6-digit IDs remember. You see, there were once companies called Creative Labs, and Rio, and they made these iPhone like things, except they couldn't make phone calls and couldn't text, they just played music (and maybe they came with Breakout if you were lucky).

You see, there was once a company called Apple, and they made these iPhone like things, except they couldn't make phone calls and couldn't text, they just played music (and the early ones couldn't even play Breakout!).

Re:So what exactly is the market here.

[shadowrat]

maybe it's just me, but i don't like wearing anything on my wrist for any activity where i bend my wrist. I've tried even low profile devices like the fuel band and just don't like it. maybe for jogging it's ok, but i can't wear it skateboarding, or biking, or lifting weights. it's not that i can't see uses for it. I can. i like racing sailboats, a timing app would be great, but apple didn't say that my $350 toy is going to survive a dunk in the bay so there's no way i'm wearing it for that. Likewise, I can think of more cool uses for surfing and skating and biking, but again, it just seems to expensive and too vulnerable.

Re:So what exactly is the market here.

[Maury Markowitz]

> What exactly is the reason to have this as well, as opposed to pulling your phone out of your pocket?

That.

What, you think that's silly? Tell that to all the hands-free vendors.

Re:So what exactly is the market here.

[gwstuff]

Exactly. That's the thought I started watching the iWatch presentation with. But it was addressed by the ability to monitor your pulse, and to calculate the calories you consume. This kicks all existing heart rate monitors out of the picture, as they usually require you to wear a strap or belt around your chest, which is hugely inconvenient, and certainly not something you do all the time.

In short, I think the health platform combined with 3rd party apps will make this product (and probably comparable Android smartwatches) a success.

Re:So what exactly is the market here.

[Ranbot]

You mentioned ease of use for women without pockets, but it could also be useful for any business person who gets stuck in meetings, because they can casually glance at their wrist to check incoming calls or emails.

Wearable tech has been here, but just hasn't caught on... if anyone can make it cool for the masses, it's Apple.

Re:So what exactly is the market here.

[Uberbah]

So don't freaking buy one if it's not what you want. It's not like Zombie Jobs is holding a gun to your head.

Re:So what exactly is the market here.

[antdude]

I want a new watch like Casio Data Bank 150. No phone requirement. I guess this Apple watch isn't it since it requires a phone. 6th generation iPod nano would work, but it lacks features like a simple scheduler, phone directory, etc. Not even a way to install apps. :(

Re:So what exactly is the market here.

[Salgat]

The phone is an intermediary; you really don't want to have to carry around this big square in your pocket and have to pull it out everytime you want to use it. The future will likely be something wearable, whether it be a smart watch that can do everything a phone does or perhaps smart glasses. Who knows.

Re:So what exactly is the market here.

[Lab Rat Jason]

I usually don't correct people on their grammar, but it's pronounced "METRIC SHITTONS.' Please people... get it right before Weird Al picks up on this and eviscerates us all!

Re:So what exactly is the market here.

[McGruber]

A gigantic set of the population is no longer even used to the concept of wearing a watch, because they have their phone. This device doesn't replace their phone. What exactly is the reason to have this as well, as opposed to pulling your phone out of your pocket?

You're thinking about it wrong: People wear watches because they are in fashion, not because wearing a watch is a necessary thing to do.

I noticed that they showed several different styles of watches -- that means every fashionista will have to buy several. Ker-ching $$$$$$

Re:So what exactly is the market here.

[Anubis IV]

That's an apt comparison to the iPod. It certainly resembles the germ of a good idea, but it doesn't feel like it's there yet. It looks like it's closer than the alternatives that have preceded it, but we'll need to wait for it to blossom before it reaches mass-market appeal.

Re:So what exactly is the market here.

[Cederic]

when it doubles as a beautiful watch

Whoa. At no point does it do that.

It's so far from cutting edge as a timepiece that it implicitly fails to be a beautiful watch even before you start comparing it to the hand built works of art that are available for even modest prices.

I accept your 'phone unavailable' use case, but please, don't go pretending this is a thing of beauty. Function at best.

Re:So what exactly is the market here.

[marcobi]

maybe I didn't hear the swoosh... but they are referring to this nomad: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C...
http://beta.slashdot.org/story...

Re:So what exactly is the market here.

[Bing Tsher E]

They couldn't even play music unless you had a Mac with a firewire connection to load the music.

Re:So what exactly is the market here.

[Bing Tsher E]

I hold little dinner partys with my phone. My sister even knitted little outfits to dress it up in.

Re:So what exactly is the market here.

[Bing Tsher E]

And the bluetooth headphone that speaks caller ID means that a watch device where your wrist has to stay easily bareable just seems stupid, because you already (should) have the headphone. Right?

Re:So what exactly is the market here.

[Bing Tsher E]

Pretty soon (line up at the Apple Store!) wristwatches will be cool again.

Seriously, Steve would be pissed about a LOT of this. But bizzness is bizzness*, and Steve's gone.

(*there's a lot of money in selling sugar water to kids!)

Re: So what exactly is the market here.

[jsh1972]

Damn kids! Get off my LAN!!

Re: So what exactly is the market here.

[macs4all]

It's not a matter of being fumble-fingered. Rather, the iPhine is small-enough that it usually drops below the top of my shirt pocket, and if you aren't really careful, it is all-too-easy to snag the top of the phone (my phone has a graphite-fiber case that adds about 2mm to the overall thickness of the phone, which doesn't help), or the shirt sort of "bunches-up" and "envelopes" the phone. Being in a rush, trying to answer the phone doesn't help, either.

As for Bluetooth headsets, not only do I find them universally fugly, but I'm not at all sanguine with having a source of microwave energy situated that close to my brain, sorry.

Re:So what exactly is the market here.

[sribe]

And the bluetooth headphone that speaks caller ID means that a watch device where your wrist has to stay easily bareable just seems stupid, because you already (should) have the headphone. Right?

No, actually I don't have a headset. If I were on the phone more, I probably would. But in my case, I need to be available for emergencies, but I'm not really on the phone much at all during the day.

In that sense, I realize that I may be very unusual, thus your point is a good one when talking about the general market.

Re:So what exactly is the market here.

[j-beda]

Because it doesn't necessarily still work. I have an iphone that is nearly 3 years old and the home button is very nearly worn out, frequently only working intermittently.

One of my clients has an iPhone with a flaky button. He had an Apple Store person turn on a software button called "Assistive Touch" which is part of the standard iOS software. It might be useful in your situation too. Here are some instructions:

http://osxdaily.com/2012/07/02...

Re:So what exactly is the market here.

[saleenS281]

You're entitled to your opinion. You're not in the majority, as evidenced by them selling out in less than an hour.

Re:So what exactly is the market here.

[Powercntrl]

People keep mentioning the Nomad.

They're quoting CmdrTaco, who used those exact words to describe the original iPod upon it's announcement. Damn kids these days....

You have to remember, Apple eventually decided to release iPods with support for Windows. Will they release a "Watch" that works with Android? Probably not.

Re:So what exactly is the market here.

[Glarimore]

Apple was simply the first to put an SSD in a laptop (because they were prohibitively expensive at the time). The "ultrabook" would have happened with or without the Macbook Air.

Re:So what exactly is the market here.

[q4Fry]

I'm a Pebble owner. I agree with this sentiment. I liked the ad for Apple Watch, but I'm not going to remember to plug the thing in every day.

Unobtrusive notifications are nice (at the cinema, say), and on-wrist walking directions can be really convenient, but not $350+ convenient.

Also, the "Share my heartbeat" thing seems creepy.

Re:So what exactly is the market here.

[AmiMoJo]

God really screwed up when he forgot to include a phone dock and USB charging in humans.

Re:So what exactly is the market here.

[Just Some Guy]

N00b.

Re:So what exactly is the market here.

[Nethead]

Get back in the house, son.

Re:So what exactly is the market here.

[SuperKendall]

If they had put a phone in it I would never have bought one, knowing the battery life would be well less than a day.

Apple mentions charging overnight, so I estimate a 15-24 hour battery life.

Re:So what exactly is the market here.

[Boycott BMG]

Personally I think the Moto 360 is the best looking of the current bunch. Definitely better than what I've seen so far from Apple, Samsung, LG, and Sony.

Re: So what exactly is the market here.

[macs4all]

Right but having a more powerful one next to other vital organs is just fine.

Actually! I do worry a bit about that, too. That's why I usually put my phone on the passenger seat when I can, and in my laptop bag's front pocket, or on my desk when at at work. At home, my phone is likely to be anywhere.

And now we go full-circle, with me having to worry about the BT in the Apple Watch as well...

But, quite frankly, nothing scares me quite as much as a diagnosis of Brain Cancer/Brain Tumor. I watched the wife of an extended-family member go from seemingly fine to a corpse (quite unpleasantly) in the space of about six weeks due to brain cancer. It ain't pretty...

So, if I can avoid that fate by avoiding microwave transmitters strapped to my head for hours at a time, I think I will.

BTW, I was given a hand-me-down BT earpiece. Liked the convenience, but just couldn't get by that whole microwave thing...

Re:So what exactly is the market here.

[crazyvas]

You are asking to be lawned...

http://slashdot.org/story/01/1...
CmdrTaco = http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R...

Re:So what exactly is the market here.

[u38cg]

Damn kids. Push off and don't come back till you've been here since '98.

Re:So what exactly is the market here.

[gnasher719]

MOST Apple products are a little overpriced and underspecced upon release. Look at the original iPod -- it was indeed expensive, had no wireless, and "less space than a Nomad."

Just saying: You paid about the same amount for the original iPod that Toshiba charged you for the hard drive in that iPod. And since the Toshiba hard drives were hard to drive but could be used nicely to upgrade certain high end cameras, I heard that quite a few iPods were purchased just to take them apart and extract the hard drive and put it into a camera.

Re:So what exactly is the market here.

[MachineShedFred]

I watched the stream yesterday (well, as much as anyone could with how bad they fucked the dog on that) and was thinking the same thing - yet another "companion" device that has extremely limited functionality. I then got on my motorcycle and went to run an errand or two, and realized that having maps available on my wrist for a quick look here and there would be incredibly awesome, especially if the turn-by-turn is paired with the bluetooth helmet intercom I already have, and already use for that with my phone.

There's one use case I suppose, even though it's quite limited in scope.

Also, they said nothing about battery life, which can't be good.

Re:So what exactly is the market here.

[Just Some Guy]

Well played, Grey Father.

Re:So what exactly is the market here.

[MaryAnnEvans]

If you're just going by features

Apple doesn't play the feature checklist game. They sell good industrial design and usability. And they only implement features when they know how to do it well, and the technology is ready. e.g. They could have stuck NFC in years ago, as Android did. But they waited and did it better - the year after they implemented TouchID to verify the user.

Re:So what exactly is the market here.

[MaryAnnEvans]

Just because Android Wear needs a smartphone all the time doesn't mean Apple Watch does. Android Wear doesn't have wifi, so it can only access the net via a bluetooth pairing with a smartphone. The Apple Watch does have wifi. It does need an iPhone for GPS. Maybe some other stuff. But it's core functionalities work without a smartphone. As to your swimming objection, most people don't go swimming often, and most watches are only water resistant anyway, same as the Apple Watch - people tend to take them off when changing into their swimming costumes. So it's not much of a problem for most people.

Re:So what exactly is the market here.

[MaryAnnEvans]

I believe the pitch goes something like this: In a world populated by very lazy and impatient people, the Apple watch allows you to get much of the functionality of your phone without pulling your phone out of your pocket. It also has an Apple logo on it.

Right. So what was the market the various Android Wear smart watches were going for?

Re:So what exactly is the market here.

[MaryAnnEvans]

A personal watch is what it's always has been. A mark of status.

Sounds like you weren't around before the mobile phone. In those days most people wore a watch because it was the only way of knowing what time it was. The watch market might have shrunk down to be mostly the status object now, but it wasn't like that until about 10-20 years ago.

Re:So what exactly is the market here.

[Nethead]

Yeah, I must have signed up a few hours before you did.

Re:So what exactly is the market here.

[Uberbah]

Throw hot grits at em until they get off our lawns....

Re:So what exactly is the market here.

[uCallHimDrJ0NES]

What is it to be "lawned," my memey friend? If it's got something to do with "git off my lawn," you'd better make sure the Creative Nomad is older than the Sega one first.

Re:So what exactly is the market here.

[uCallHimDrJ0NES]

Wow, you kids keep making the availability error. If you're listening to a Creative MP3 player and I'm playing a portable Genesis, who needs to get off whose lawn? 1998 indeed. Don't make me pull rank.

Re:So what exactly is the market here.

[rasmusbr]

I believe the pitch goes something like this: In a world populated by very lazy and impatient people, the Apple watch allows you to get much of the functionality of your phone without pulling your phone out of your pocket. It also has an Apple logo on it.

Right. So what was the market the various Android Wear smart watches were going for?

I imagine they went after the same market, minus the Apple logo.

Re:So what exactly is the market here.

[NulDevice]

They sure are pretty. A bit big, though. Would look fine on my wrist, but probably not on my wife's.

That's been one issue with wearables so far - while some of them have decent industrial design, they've all been positioned as "computers that you wear as an accessory", when the mass market would much rather go for "accessories that are also computers." They've all been either too big or too unstylish to make a fashion statement beyond "I read Slashdot", and frankly have been pretty biased towards male wearers.

I dunno if Apple's cracked the code on that yet, but it's interesting to see a wearable that acknowledges that (more than just customize-able faces and bands, actual different form factors and designs).

Re:So what exactly is the market here.

[Uberbah]

2002, the year after it's first release, is "eventually"?

Re:So what exactly is the market here.

[david_thornley]

I get the first couple lines of texts on the phone without unlocking it. That at least lets me know what's important. (If the fingerprint sensor worked - and, in a little less than a year, it's detected my fingerprint twice - unlocking would be easy.)

Re:So what exactly is the market here.

[Areyoukiddingme]

It's not like Zombie Jobs is holding a gun to your head.

Zombie Jobs does not hold a gun to your head. A spoon, maybe. But not a gun.

Re:Wrist Heart Rate Monitor

[Austerity Empowers]

I don't know about wrist but there are some in-ear sensors that do that pretty well (assuming you can tolerate ear buds and they stay in your ear).

Re:Scan here for a free 'whatever' sucker.

[Noah Haders]

apple has had CCs linked to iTunes/icloud for a decade now, with no problems. the apple pay transmits a one-time code, not the CC itself, so if somebody hacks it then enjoy. it's actually a really well designed system.

Re:Ah yes...

[TechyImmigrant]

Well I'm not happy they didn't announce a retina macbook air.

Re:No Dick Tracy calls?

[DigiShaman]

"Dick Tracy" FaceTime will be in Apple Watch 2.0. And it will be thinner too I'm sure.

Re:No Dick Tracy calls?

[toonces33]

I was hoping for a Maxwell Smart style shoe phone myself.

Disappointing

[khellendros1984]

I'm not a giant Apple fan, but one thing that I actually liked about their strategy up to this point was keeping their phones smaller. I've had a 4.7" phone, and that was almost too large for my (admittedly small) hands. I've got a 5" screen now, and it's notably difficult for me to use. I'm pessimistic about my future upgrade options at this point, if even Apple is jumping on the mega-sized-phone bandwagon.

Re:Disappointing

[John Bokma]

The iPhone 6 is 4.7", and might fit your hand better than the 4.7" phone you had.

Re:Disappointing

[roe-roe]

I absolutely agree. However, I do understand that there is a difference between screen size and phone size. I haven't yet found how much wider the iphone 6 is vs the iphone 5. My *hope* is that while the screen is larger, the phone won't be noticeably.

Re:Disappointing

[nabsltd]

The iPhone 6 is 4.7", and might fit your hand better than the 4.7" phone you had.

The iPhone 5 has a 5.3" diagonal case with a 4" screen. My LG G2 has a 5.2" diagonal screen with a 5.75" diagonal case.

So, if they lay out the iPhone 6 screen so it uses the phone area better, it should be about a 5.2" screen, which is less than the old iPhones. Even the 6 Plus shouldn't be more than 6" diagonal case, if designed correctly.

Re:Disappointing

[Pascal Sartoretti]

I'm not a giant Apple fan, but one thing that I actually liked about their strategy up to this point was keeping their phones smaller.

Same here. My iPhone 5S is great, but I wouldn't want it to be bigger. I guess I will need to wait one year before seing an iPhone 6C (with "C" as in "Compact").

Re:Disappointing

[khellendros1984]

As a form factor, perhaps that's true. As a platform, I like Android enough that it overcomes the downsides. My phone's as much of a tech toy as it is a practical device.

Re:Disappointing

[Em Adespoton]

That's why they've rolled out the Apple Watch -- you store your phone away somewhere, and just deal with the watch as your interface. The phone comes out if you're taking pictures/video, or looking at pictures/video, or using an app that isn't available on the Watch.

That said, I used to be in the "yay, Apple is staying with a small phone" camp -- now however, eyesight is more of an issue than it used to be, and their old form factor is just a tad too small for comfort. So I'm glad there are options.

Re:Disappointing

[necro81]

The iPhone 6 is 4.7", and might fit your hand better than the 4.7" phone you had.

Because Apple measures inches differently than everyone else?

Apple. Measure Different.

Joking aside, what you say is possible, since the screen's diagonal measurement is hardly the only metric for the size of a phone. Aspect ratio, bezel width, thickness, sharpness of corners - all of these impact "holdability"

Re:Disappointing

[dave-man]

I agree. They are just too big. Form factor went down hill with the 5 and has deteriorated substantially with the 6 and 6Plus.

Someone please give the human factors people at Apple some insight into the golden rectangle. These things are too big AND they're ugly.

Re:Disappointing

[CanadianMacFan]

Unfortunately the C seems to stand for Cheap. Plastic case, slower processor, and less RAM. I've got the 5s and don't really want anything bigger but don't want to give up performance either. I like being able to use the phone with one hand and don't like the solution Apple is providing. I was hoping that they would go from a 3x full screen display to a 2x resolution display in one handed mode with it anchored on a corner instead of shifting everything down halfway.

Re:Disappointing

[mattventura]

I think what they should have done, if anything, was reduce the amount of space taken up by the home button/speaker/camera to increase the screen size without actually increasing the phone's size. They probably could squeeze an extra inch of screen space out by doing that.

Re:Disappointing

[quacking duck]

If Apple has any cultural awareness at all in China, they know all about the puns that come from the many similar-sounding characters, and there won't ever be an iPhone 6C.

Because in Cantonese (and I *think* in the predominant Mandarin, too), if 6C is spoken entirely in English (e.g. "iPhone six see") sounds awfully close to the slang/insult for "eat shit."

Re:Ah yes...

[DJCouchyCouch]

You really think they'd announce new Macs at an iPhone event?

Re:Scan here for a free 'whatever' sucker.

[DeTech]

Still no user auth. Short answer don't lose your phone, better answer don't use ipay.

Re:Ah yes...

[NotDrWho]

In all fairness, this is /. We rag on EVERYONE.

Re:Ah yes...

[TechyImmigrant]

I don't care. I wanted them to hold a macbook event, so they can announce a retina macbook air, so I can go and buy one.
I have no interest in iPhones or iPhone events.
 

Re:No "standard" iPhone size?

[ottothecow]

Yeah. While it is hard for me to visualize exactly what size the smaller 6 will be, I know a lot of people who have stuck with apple because of the consistent form factor.

As the android phones grew to massive sizes, they could just keep buying iphones that fit in their pockets (without having to wear baggy pants or cargo shorts).

Same thing happened with the Moto X for me I guess. I was ok with the form factor. Bigger than the iphone, but smaller than the competition...and still just (barely) small enough that I could reach all 4 corners of the screen with my thumb while holding it in one hand. Now the new Moto X+1 is getting even bigger and it is definitely not going to be my next phone. Luckily I am still loving the Moto X and have no reason to upgrade for another year...but I have zero interest in going bigger.

Re:Before and After

[ugen]

From what I understood so far, mobile payments will only work on devices equipped with fingerprint scanner. So, unless they badly break the design, it should not be possible for a 3rd party to pay with the device.

iphone 6 is an unmitigated disaster

[Anonymous Coward]

This is a complete an utter failure usability-wise for a number of reasons:

1) It is larger than a hand. The iphone 5/5s was designed so that one could reach both upper corners with the thumb of the same hand holding the phone. The smallest iphone 6 is now too big to reach.
2) Landscape homescreen mode won't mitigate this, because now the corners are even farther away, and you're UI targets have all shifted because of the rotation!!
3) The camera lens protrudes out of the back. This means the phone will not lay flat on a desk, and will rock back and forth when typing on the soft keyboard (this is SUPER annoying, and why I abandoned my HTC one M7 for an Iphone 5s, along with the size issue).
4) While my non-skinny jeans could easily accommodate an HTC one M7, I have a hard time seeing how phones this size would fit in a FEMALE pocket, which tend to be tighter and smaller (yes, women exist, and are roughly half the population).

Apple decided that the screen size pissing contest was more important than whether or not their phone was actually usable. It deserves to fail.

I certainly won't be buying one.

Re:iphone 6 is an unmitigated disaster

[sexconker]

Pockets on female clothing are usually ancillary, often ornamental. It's expected that they have a purse.
I don't know any female that puts things in her pockets. It can be a damned struggle to fit a tube of chapstick in them.

Re:iphone 6 is an unmitigated disaster

[Cederic]

I know a lot of women that put their phones in their rear pockets when wearing jeans.
I know some women that put their phones in their bra.

Both sets of women are going to be thwarted by larger screen devices.

Re:iphone 6 is an unmitigated disaster

[exomondo]

Yes so they sell you an oversized computer to sit in your pocket or purse and then sell you another computer to control that computer. It's marketing genius!

Re:iphone 6 is an unmitigated disaster

[ganjadude]

obviously the screensize pissing contest is showing that people want more real estate rather than the ability to hit the very top with 1 hand

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Hot Damn!

[lophophore]

They've caught up with last year's Nexus 5!

Re:Hot Damn!

[jellomizer]

Apple never has been ahead of their competition based on raw technical feature.

Apple wins by taking the modern features that have been proven and implement them in a way that is either unique or better perfected.

Any company and make a phone by placing a faster processor, and a bigger/higher resolution screen. However the details are what makes it a device that you play with for a few days and no longer use (like my old Palm-pilot 3 that I have, mostly due to the fact it didn't have a rechargeable battery). Apple does have a tenancy of putting a lot of though in subtle things that don't normally fall on the feature list.

However if you want big fast processor. Go with an Android phone. That is their market, you have more choice

Re:Hot Damn!

[jbolden]

Actually that's not true. With the exception of LG's model that used a tablet processor the iPhone 5S's processor was the fastest out there when it came out and for quite a while thereafter. The A8 is likely even more advanced. When it comes to CPU Apple is now way ahead.

Re:Hot Damn!

[Anubis IV]

For users who preferred larger screens, obviously Apple was lacking in that regard, but aside from screen size, let me ask a dumb question (I'm a recovering Apple fanboy, so you'll have to pardon me :P): in what other aspects of the hardware were they considered behind in a meaningful way, prior to today?

Obviously, that "meaningful" qualifier will mean different things to different people (e.g. most differences in pixel density don't matter to me, so long as they're beyond the threshold where my not-so-great eyes can distinguish individual pixels), but I'd be curious to hear some of Slashdot's take on which features mattered to them that the Galaxy 5 had and the iPhone 5s didn't. I know iPhones have been dinged for a lack of removable battery, lack of expandable storage, and their comparatively small screens, but I'm always interested in learning about what my blind spots are.

To follow that up, I'm aware of several areas that matter to me where they were (I believe) still ahead:
- 64-bit CPU
- Hardware encryption
- Touch ID (I know the Galaxy 5 has fingerprint scanning, but by all accounts I've heard, it isn't that great)

(There are more, but those ones immediately stand out to me.)

All of which is to say, even though you meant it as a joke, your comment got me wondering how much truth was in what you said.

Re:Hot Damn!

[lophophore]

They did have the first iPod, no doubt. But as far as the first portable MP3 player, no. Try PJB100, invented by Digital Equipment Corporation.

They did have the first iPhone, but that was not the first smart phone, no. Sorry again. Palm.

They did have the first iPad, but that was not the first tablet computer, not by a long shot. GRiD was first.

Oh yeah, that GUI they claimed to invent and sued Microsoft over? Yeah, not theirs, either. Xerox. Sorry.

Apple is a marketing company, not a technology company. They have brazenly stolen others ideas and (quite successfully) marketed them.

Enjoy your lock-in.

Re:Hot Damn!

[AmiMoJo]

Apple has traditionally liked to claim the have the fastest processor and GPU. If you look at benchmarks they do well at launch, although if you look at comparison v videos on YouTube actual performance isn't that hot.

What really surprised me is that their screen is still so poor. The larger one has finally gone HD, but the smaller one is still just a more resolution retina display. Not even 720p.

Re:Hot Damn!

[AmiMoJo]

It's interesting that they have finally admitted that retina displays were bullshit and gone with a more competitive resolution on the larger one.

Re:Hot Damn!

[quacking duck]

However if you want big fast processor. Go with an Android phone. That is their market, you have more choice

Faster in clock frequency, anyway. IIRC the iPhone 5S benchmarked very well against its contemporaries, i.e. Galaxy S4 and HTC One M7, despite having only two cores and only running 1.3 GHz (vs 1.9 and 2+ GHz). And I'm not sure if the benchmarks I saw had adjusted the Samsung and HTC scores down, after they were both caught cheating on benchmark apps.

Re:Hot Damn!

[Glarimore]

So what are the features that the Apple 6 has that are either not present or not-as-polished in the Nexus 5?

Re:Hot Damn!

[Totenglocke]

Nope, they just caught up with the Nexus 4 from two years ago.

Re:Hot Damn!

[Just Some Guy]

Apple is a marketing company, not a technology company. They have brazenly stolen others ideas and (quite successfully) marketed them.

That's a ludicrous conclusion. If they're to be reduced to something other than a technology company, then let them be an industrial design firm. While everyone else is concentrating on specs and feature bullet lists, Apple seems to this day to be the only company focusing on UI and usability. Their goal is to make things that people enjoy using - ignoring the specs and feature bullet lists - and sell bazillions of them.

There are already smartwatches on the market. Check out Samsung's product page: Powered by Google Android Wear! 1.63" Super AMOLED® display!. Now check out Apple's product page, which focuses on its design. Even the technology page describes how each feature should make you want to have one.

Non-geek people I know couldn't care less about a 1.63" Super AMOLED® display. They understand why they'd like to "glimpse the weather forecast, check out what’s next on your calendar, or find your current location on a map". You can probably do the same things with a Samsung, but know knows? They'd rather tell you about which OS is installed on the thing.

Re:Hot Damn!

[Camembert]

Such simplistic reasoning. It is obvious that the above products became successful because they spend a lot of effort in improving the user experience considerably. It is an important step in product development that for some reason most tech companies do not do as well. And making something simple to use is not evident either, otherwise others would have done it before. This is not simply marketing.

Re:Hot Damn!

[david_thornley]

They had the first MP3 player that was really easy to use, in the iPod. Don't knock ease of use.

They had the first smartphone that was really easy to use, in the iPhone. Its success can't be attributed to marketing, since other stuff has been marketed harder and failed. Its success can't be attributed to Apple fans, since there weren't enough Apple fans in the world to buy all those iPhones.

There were tablet computers long before the iPad, but they generally were laptops with a different form factor. Some people found their Windows XP tablets very useful, but they weren't successful in general. Would you like to run Windows 7 on a Surface Pro, without a keyboard? iOS was designed for touch devices.

The Apple/Macintosh GUI really didn't look all that much like Xerox's. What Xerox did is invent the building blocks (windows, icons, menus, mouse) that Apple built an interface with. Other WIMP interfaces were not as successful.

Apple is a technology company, concentrating on making devices easy to use.

Re:From the Apple RDF

[gstoddart]

Meh. It's a watch, they use watch terminology (because that's what it's called on a watch).

That's far from an RDF, that's just marketing douchiness.

None of the stuff is impressive

[Anonymous Coward]

They streamed this live at my office (sadly) and we all had to watch it. None of Apple's new toys are even remotely exciting. The cult gets larger, yes, but nothing introduced is remotely revolutionary or disruptive. Wake me when they invent the holodeck.

Perhaps the iWatch market is the iPod market?

[Black.Shuck]

In a few iterations the Apple Watch will be untethered from the phone, have decent storage, and a slimmer form-factor than the monstrosity that was unveiled today.

In a world of tablets, smartphones and smartwatches, dedicated music-players are starting to look rather "quaint".

Re:Legacy Support

[neoform]

>We should be able to run all legacy applications back to MacOS 1.0

You want an OS to continue to improve, while being able to run 15 year old apps?

Good luck with that.

Re:left

[OhPlz]

You're holding it wrong.

Re:Before and After

[iluvcapra]

It looks like you can use the Find My iPhone to wipe the CC numbers...

Re:Before and After

[iluvcapra]

And the cashier will never see the owner's name.... a NOT wonderful idea

I have "Ask for Photo ID" written on the back of all my credit cards. I'd say the cashiers do as they're instructed about 1% of the time. We can't rely on the merchants to enforce the security of the system more than bare compliance requires, they're not on the hook for the losses.

No Dick Tracy calls?

[slashdice]

Unless your cock is thicker than your wrist, you can strap your watch to your pecker.

Re:Scan here for a free 'whatever' sucker.

[Anonymous Coward]

There is user auth. Fingerprint scanner. You can also disable mobile payments from the find my iPhone app.

Tight pants

[oneiros27]

Have you seen what people are wearing these days?

This is so they can check what time it is without having to attempt to extract their new, larger phone out of the pocket of their skinny jeans, and then try to put it back in again.

Where it'd actually be cool is if it had a 'lack of proximity warning' ... eg, an alert of 'hey, you left your phone' when the two get out or range of each other. Not that it would justify the price (or switching to an iPhone), but it'd be kinda cool, as I just realized I left my phone in my car.

Re:Tight pants

[fnj]

without having to attempt to extract their new, larger phone out of the pocket of their skinny jeans

Miss, may I help you with that?

Re:Tight pants

[VorpalRodent]

My Sony smartwatch does that, though perhaps not intentionally. It buzzes when it loses bluetooth connectivity to the phone. It's great, except for when I intentionally set my phone down and then wander around right at the edge of where it can connect.

Re:Tight pants

[Eythian]

Where it'd actually be cool is if it had a 'lack of proximity warning' ... eg, an alert of 'hey, you left your phone' when the two get out or range of each other. Not that it would justify the price (or switching to an iPhone), but it'd be kinda cool, as I just realized I left my phone in my car.

My pebble does this, it'll vibrate to tell me that the link to the phone has broken. It also does other useful things, that's just one of them.

pulse detection?

[rogoshen1]

From a workout perspective, this is intriguing -- i haven't looked into this in a while, I"m not aware of any 'watches' that monitor your pulse without a chest strap.

Granted, 300+ for a phone, and then another 300+ for a watch for said functionality.. no. just no.

Re:pulse detection?

[rogoshen1]

disregard, 3 seconds of googling after posting this shows the error or my ways. =/

Re:pulse detection?

[brunes69]

There are lots of watches on the market that monitor your pulse directly from your wrist. The whole Android Wear line of watches for one.

Re:pulse detection?

[Cederic]

I must be weird. If I want to get off my arse and go running I need a decent pair of shoes or a nice clean bit of pavement.

I don't need expensive electronics. I guess my bluetooth headset and a pocket for my MP3 player (also known as my phone) would be convenient to stave off the inevitable boredom of running without going anywhere, but I can probably tell by myself when I'm knackered, when I've run enough and how far I've run.

Still, it could be worse. Fucking cyclists mount even more shit on their bikes and still have the electronic sensors letting them know how close to cardiac arrest they're getting..

Re:pulse detection?

[quacking duck]

The $350 watch works fine with the 1-year old 5s and 5c, as well as the 2-year old iPhone 5, so you don't *have* to shell out for the latest iPhone too.

Re:Legacy Support

[larkost]

If you really need that legay support for software [1], then there are some solutions out there already, like Chubby Bunny:

http://www.macwindows.com/Emulator-for-Mac-OS-9-in-OS-X-updated-for-Mountain-Lion.html

And you are really wrong about almost everything in this post. You would not like trying to run iOS apps and trying to mimic their gestures on MacOS with a mouse. And there are very few people who are holding onto old hardware because of older data. You are very much in the minority, and Apple's quarterly statements prove you wrong.

[1] Linking up with legacy hardware is far more common and difficult in my experience. I have seen old hardware from vendors that have gone out of business that is no longer supportable on modern hardware (Windows and MacOS). For researchers trying to re-do older experiments this can be very annoying.

Re:Legacy Support

[RyuuzakiTetsuya]

Wow. Major Poe here. I'm not sure if you're a troll or serious.

If you're not a troll, then what the hell are you doing stuck at 10.1? The intel transition was 8 years ago. What kind of lazy software vender are you using that hasn't updated for Intel? Also, 10.6 runs most PPC apps via Rosetta.

Re:Before and After

[slashdice]

The iWatch detects skin color.

Re:Legacy Support

[uCallHimDrJ0NES]

'Legacy apps "just work".'

Apple needs to apply this to the MacOS as well. We should be able to run all legacy applications back to MacOS 1.0 and frankly iOS and MacOS should be merged such that we can run applications on either. A lot of people aren't upgrading Mac hardware because we need access to older data which is used by older applications that Apple no longer supports.

We need Legacy that Just Works.

Wow. END USER ALERT. END USER ALERT. This is Slashdot. NOTHING JUST WORKS.

Re:No Dick Tracy calls?

[macs4all]

Not impressed.

Well pray tell then, AC, what would have "Impressed" you? Perhaps an Apple Watch powered by Cold Fusion, or by harvesting heat energy from your body?

It was amazingly bad

[SuperKendall]

I would not have thought it was possible for a live video feed to go that bad. In addition to all the issues you mentioned, towards the end I had the video feed randomly flip between live content and content from an hour prior. It also froze for a while when the words "Image Stabilization" came on screen, a little too much stabilization!

Bandwidth issues I could almost forgive, or at least understand. But the technical issues they were so technically awful it seemed like they hired a first grade class to do AV and fed them jello shots beforehand.

Hope they can assemble a watchable video for viewing later, it was so bad you almost have to wonder if Chinese is not permanently embedded over Cook's voice in the master recording.

Re:It was amazingly bad

[_xeno_]

Based on the issues as you describe them, I can only assume they decided they'd use their new improved video camera and streamed the entire thing from a new iPhone 6. :P

Re:It was amazingly bad

[saleenS281]

You shouldn't understand bandwidth problems. It's 2014, suck up your pride and have multiple streams like e-gaming does. Send a stream to Youtube, a Stream to Twitch, and keep a local stream.

Re:It was amazingly bad

[squiggleslash]

All signs were that it was home grown, right down to the "You need to use Safari to watch this video" message for Firefox and Chrome (Chrome FFS! It's not that big a fork of Webkit yet...) users.

HTML5 video has been working in all major browsers for how long now? And how many CDNs are there that specialize purely in video?

Re:It was amazingly bad

[SuperKendall]

I don't think you understand Cook has a dark side, I'm thinking darker than Jobs. Still waters run deep as they say... Jobs put all his emotion out on the surface, someone like Cook is far scarier.

The stream was terrible

[Jupix]

I hope the phone and watch will work better than their webcast. It was terrible. Worst I've seen in years. You'd think with Apple's resources they could manage a big webstream without dropped connections, website going down, audio tracks on top of one another, constant buffering, etc.

Re:The stream was terrible

[93 Escort Wagon]

I agree - the stream was terrible. I eventually gave up and just followed Engadget's live blog.

However I'm pretty sure the "audio tracks on top of one another" issue was a low-tech issue where a Japanese translator was standing too close to the a microphone - her voice was almost as loud as Phil Shiller's. I'd be curious to hear from someone actually at the event if that was the case.

Re:The stream was terrible

[Maury Markowitz]

> I agree - the stream was terrible

It worked perfectly on the Apple TV, which I tried after repeated failures on two browsers.

Re:The stream was terrible

[ArcadeMan]

I tried watching on the Apple TV, I had all the problems mentioned by everyone, including my Apple TV totally freezing and needing a reboot via disconnecting the power cable.

Re:The stream was terrible

[ganjadude]

i dont care enough to watch it, but i was following arstechnica liveblog

Re:WiFi Calling?

[_xeno_]

Technically they've had it since last year when they added the ability to do audio-only video calls.

Which is ... still 5+ years too late. But, hey, slightly earlier than you were thinking!

Re:No "standard" iPhone size?

[Anonymous Coward]

Here is a template.

Re:So, in short...

[aaron4801]

30% of smartphone users are picking their jaw up off the floor, having seen the future! 70% are wondering what the big deal is, seeing features they've been using for two years.

Re:Before and After

[Predius]

The merchant policies from Visa/etc actually instruct them NOT to ask for ID even if that's on the card. If you don't sign your card they're not supposed to accept it at all.

Re:Legacy Support

[Fnord666]

>We should be able to run all legacy applications back to MacOS 1.0

You want an OS to continue to improve, while being able to run 15 year old apps?

Good luck with that.

Cause it worked out so well for Microsoft...

Re:left

[Darth Snowshoe]

I had exactly the same reaction. It seems like an odd omission given "We've worked on this a long long time" (misquoting Mr. Cook here) and the vaunted Design capabilities of Apple.

I can probably just as well get by with the righties version, but I have to say I feel oddly discounted by this. I'm hoping they offer a lefties version in a follow-up announcement.

iPod Classic

[typhoonius]

One bum note is that they are no longer selling the iPod Classic as of today, quietly ending thirteen years of scroll-wheel iPods.

That's too bad, as it's a much better music player than the iTouch and the iPhone, with its larger storage capacity and controls with tactile feedback.

Re:iPod Classic

[gnu-sucks]

That is a shame. Should order one while we still can.

Re:iPod Classic

[disposable60]

A 120+GB solid state iPod is way past due. No, I don't want an iPhone. No, I don't want to stream (and pay for that bandwidth).

Re:iPod Classic

[typhoonius]

Just caught this bit on their Apple Watch overview page:

It's as integral to Apple Watch as the Click Wheel is to iPod. Or the mouse is to Mac.

Pretty funny when the majority of Macs are sold with trackpads and now all iPods are sold with touchscreens.

Re:iPod Classic

[ediron2]

Look online (ebay, etc). Vendors are refurbing ipods just this way. 250 gig refurb gen5's are going Buy-it-now for $400. Smaller ones with prices on down to $150.

Re:iPod Classic

[Error27]

Sony sells a walkman branded mp3 player with a scroll wheel.

http://www.amazon.com/Sony-NWZ...

It's not quite as good as the Apple wheel because you just press on the side of the wheel instead of spinning it. That's the only bad thing otherwise it's basically the same.

Re:iPod Classic

[ignavusinfo]

I don't think "orders of magnitude" means what you think it does.

Re:iPod Classic

[spire3661]

No SD slot .....I was going ot get one, even at double the price of a SanDisk player, but Sony still hasnt figured it out yet.

Re:iPod Classic

[WhoBeDaPlaya]

Y'all are missing an important point. Most automotive headunits are designed to work best with Apple devices (eg. my Pioneer Z140BH - full voice recognition, album art, etc. only for iPod/iPhone sources). Out of no choice, I shelled out $189 back in 2009 for a 160GB iPod classic to essentially use it as a USB HDD in the car.

Re:iPod Classic

[ArcadeMan]

All iPods?

Re:iPod Classic

[u38cg]

You can get a Sansa Clip+ for £20-30 plus a 128GB microSD card for about £60. Slap Rockbox on it and you've got something smaller and with better sound than an iPod.

One day battery life in Apple Watch too?

[Jupix]

I don't think they mentioned official battery capacity or battery life numbers, but they did say "very easy to charge at night". That tells me it has 1 day of battery just like the Moto 360.

Honestly, the battery is the worst part of smartwatches currently. It ruined the Moto 360 for me and it comes close to ruining to Apple Watch, if it actually is only 1 day.

I would settle for 3 days, my Sony sw2 goes 4 days without charging. I was expecting the same from Apple, looking at the criticisms of the Android Wear watches which are all focused on the 1-2 day battery life. I don't want to charge a watch every night!! I get it, it has a nice screen and it's slim, and it's running a lot of sensors and wireless transactions, but still... just awful battery life!

Re:One day battery life in Apple Watch too?

[Dixie_Flatline]

They're not launching until 2015, so I think basically they're hedging their bets that they might be able to get a slightly better battery in 6 months than they can right now. It's very much like Apple to play their cards close to their chest in instances like this. They won't be able to say how long it lasts for a few months because they literally don't know, and they won't make up numbers that haven't been validated in some way.

However long it lasts, though, it's not long enough. I'd want 5 days, minimum.

It's a pretty piece of jewellery, though. On that front, they're at the front of the class again.

Re:One day battery life in Apple Watch too?

[Bogtha]

I would settle for 3 days

I think this is just the 80/20 split. Almost everybody goes home and sleeps almost every night. For the vast majority of cases, taking your watch off to charge it once every three days is no better than taking your watch off to charge it every night. And the tradeoff to get to three days is either a) a battery three times larger, b) a watch that is three times more power efficient, or c) lesser capability. A three day battery life isn't worth the sacrifices you'd have to make to get it.

I don't want to charge a watch every night!!

Why? What's so much better about taking your watch off every three nights instead of every night?

Re:One day battery life in Apple Watch too?

[MildlyTangy]

I don't think they mentioned official battery capacity or battery life numbers, but they did say "very easy to charge at night". That tells me it has 1 day of battery just like the Moto 360.

Honestly, the battery is the worst part of smartwatches currently. It ruined the Moto 360 for me and it comes close to ruining to Apple Watch, if it actually is only 1 day.

I would settle for 3 days, my Sony sw2 goes 4 days without charging. I was expecting the same from Apple, looking at the criticisms of the Android Wear watches which are all focused on the 1-2 day battery life. I don't want to charge a watch every night!! I get it, it has a nice screen and it's slim, and it's running a lot of sensors and wireless transactions, but still... just awful battery life!

Even charging every 3 nights will be a pain, you have to take your watch off and leave it in a charger. Better not forget your watch when you get up. A traditional watch runs for years before changing its battery, if it even had one, and many high end watches use so little power, they can be powered by the movement of your arms throughout the day.

No chance of that with the iWatch or any other smartwatch these days.

And since these smart/i/watches have lithium batteries that are not replaceable, your smart/i/watch has a built in ~5 year life time. At USD$350 a pop (for the womens size one).

But the benefits...ohh the benefits.
You can share a doodle or your heartbeats with your friends!
Instead of spending all the time and energy of pulling your phone out of your pocket to read a txt or look at your instasnapbooks, you can now save time by bringing your arm up and pressing the buttons and spinning the dial to do the same thing! so much more efficient use of your precious time and energy.
And now you can talk to Siri like 1940's Dick Tracey ( come on guys, how cool is that! )

Re:One day battery life in Apple Watch too?

[CanadianMacFan]

If you are tracking your health then monitoring your heart rate, etc during the night could be helpful.

Re:One day battery life in Apple Watch too?

[dgatwood]

A three day battery life isn't worth the sacrifices you'd have to make to get it.

What sacrifices? Design extra battery capacity into the watch band.

Re:One day battery life in Apple Watch too?

[Anubis IV]

Why? What's so much better about taking your watch off every three nights instead of every night?

With the post-2007 smartphones, their benefits over what we had at the time were SO apparent that few of us really complained much when we sacrificed a significant amount of battery life to acquire those benefits. But with smartwatches, most of us here seem to be confused over what benefits they offer that are compelling enough to even justify the cost, let alone the other drawbacks like poorer battery life compared to existing watches. If the barrier keeping someone from buying a smartwatch is its battery life, a larger battery life may make all the difference to them since it'd be significantly more tolerable.

Even the difference between one day and two can make a huge difference for people, since "one day" really just means "it'll die over the course of the day if I use it heavily".

Re:One day battery life in Apple Watch too?

[robmv]

If I am out of my home for a night I should be able to use my watch the next day until I get home, without the need to carry another charger with me, 3 days Is something I want as a minimum

Re:One day battery life in Apple Watch too?

[AmiMoJo]

One solid day (not 12 hours, 24 of real use) would be okay is charging was as easy as putting it down on a pad. Even the Qi enabled Android watches are not quite there yet.

Re:One day battery life in Apple Watch too?

[Eythian]

Why? What's so much better about taking your watch off every three nights instead of every night?

I use my smartwatch as a sleep tracker, it'd be really annoying if I had to charge it every night. Fortunately it gets days of battery life, so I just top it up every so often and it's fine.

Re:One day battery life in Apple Watch too?

[rsborg]

I would settle for 3 days

I think this is just the 80/20 split. Almost everybody goes home and sleeps almost every night. For the vast majority of cases, taking your watch off to charge it once every three days is no better than taking your watch off to charge it every night. And the tradeoff to get to three days is either a) a battery three times larger, b) a watch that is three times more power efficient, or c) lesser capability. A three day battery life isn't worth the sacrifices you'd have to make to get it.

I don't want to charge a watch every night!!

Why? What's so much better about taking your watch off every three nights instead of every night?

Actually, something that you don't do every day (at the same time) you won't build a habit around. I kept forgetting to charge my Pebble and so didn't use it much for the first few months (well, to be honest, not really until iOS7 and better notification support) - one of the big reasons is I didn't have the habit of charging the device every night. So I'd forget on day 4, then day 6 it would run out of battery and stay unused until the weekend when I'd be like - why TF did i buy this thing?

Now I charge every night. And I use it every day - it helps me not miss calls (phone is always muted b/c meetings) or important texts (did you know that some daycare centers charge like $1/min for being late? If wife can't pick up the kids on time, I better not miss the call/text/voicemail).

Re:One day battery life in Apple Watch too?

[ljw1004]

One of my primary use cases for my watch is looking at it bleary eyed in the middle of the night when I've been woken up by my cosleeping baby and neither brain nor muscles have booted up enough yet to look at a bedside clock... nor to do anything, in fact, other than look at my watch and groan!

Re:One day battery life in Apple Watch too?

[ruir]

They did not also mention price...only the 2 year contract price, which is not rather appealing.

Re:One day battery life in Apple Watch too?

[mythix]

I want to rate your comment "Funny" for saying the Apple Watch is "slim"

Re:left

[Lab Rat Jason]

It's just software... So mount the watch upside down with regard to the band, put it on your left wrist and tell the software you're a lefty. Is that so hard?

Re:Before and After

[Jarik C-Bol]

Because that happens at all anymore. There is literally ONE store in my town that takes cards that does not have the "Customer Side" card swipe, not that it matters, because reading the name on the card does absolutely nothing if you have no ID to compare it to. You pretty much never hand your card to the cashier anymore, and none of them are trained to expect you to. Yeah, its a great idea "confirm they are the owner of the card" which means you need the actual credit card, their drivers license/ID card, and a deep sense of giving a shit. In reality, its "Get the customer out of the store so you can help the next one."

Apple about face?

[DeathByLlama]

I feel like this is the time to recall not-so-old articles such as this one: http://techcrunch.com/2013/06/... in which Apple is praised for purposefully leaving NFC out of their phones.

Re:Apple about face?

[jbolden]

NFC was a bad technology that has become a standard. Apple lost the battle against USB too.

Re:Apple about face?

[ganjadude]

the same thing happens with every iphone

remember when the first came out it had no copy and paste because jobs said no one needs to copy and paste on a phone? The next (or 3rd cant remember) finally had the greatest thing since the iphone... copy and paste! (which was on androind for a year or 2 to that point and i could do on the short lived BB storm)

Every iphone release it seems people wanted X, we told they dont need X, only to come out with X in the next release.

Re:Before and After

[afidel]

Touch ID is broken and will be until Apple uses a non-crap (expensive) fingerprint reader.

Any removable storage yet?

[_xeno_]

I only saw one brief bit of the stream, and it was where Steve Jobs Wannabe (Tim Cook?) was explaining how no one used camcorders any more because the iPhone could take better video. Which leads to the obvious question: does the iPhone have a replaceable battery and removable storage yet?

Because I still have a camcorder hanging around and I use it when I want to take a video that lasts longer than a couple of minutes. The entire reason I have my camcorder is so that I can take two hour videos. Then, when the battery dies, I can swap it out with a new one. And if I manage to run out of storage space, I can swap out to a new SDXC card.

Can't do either of those with an iPhone, making it a toy at taking pictures and video. Which is, to be fair, frequently fine. But Faux-Steve-Jobs's idea that the iPhone can replace a camcorder is just hilarious without those two very simple features.

Re:Any removable storage yet?

[Dixie_Flatline]

For all intents and purposes, it does replace a camcorder because most people only want a few minutes worth of video.

As with most Apple announcements, Apple is happy to ignore the existence of everything else in the same product category. The 5s also replaces a camcorder by the standards that he's talking about, and so do Android smartphones.

He's right that as a broad group, smartphones have destroyed the camera and camcorder industry. You only buy one of those devices if you want something fairly upscale, or that has features that are cumbersome or impossible to include in a smartphone (macro shots, extreme ruggedness and portability a la go pro, etc.)

Re:Any removable storage yet?

[praxis]

There are various purposes for various tools. A phone (Apple or otherwise) is not going to replace a proper camera for recording in situations in which you know you need massive storage, massive battery life or professional optics. You likely will also need good lighting and sound, but that's going beyond a camera now. What a phone does do well in, are situations where you had not planned on taking video. A camera you can carry everywhere that's good enough for many applications is the major use case and why dedicated photography and videography equipment is relegated more and more to situations that warrant it.

When my toddler is going to take his or her first steps, I might not be ready with a full recording setup, but I will have a phone at hand, for example.

If I am planning on recording my teenagers graduation, I will bring dedicated equipment that can record for hours at better resolution, for example.

Clearly the iPhone will not replace a camcorder, but it will serve as a suitable replacement for a camcorder in many situations. The market trends seem to support this view.

Re:Any removable storage yet?

[rhsanborn]

It's no more clunky than carrying a bag full of spare batteries to swap out.

Re:Any removable storage yet?

[_xeno_]

And I'm guessing the last time you used it there were two zeros in the date?

The last time I used it was Saturday. The last time I tried to take video with my cellphone was ... I actually can't remember. Probably because if I'm going to be taking video of something, I'll generally plan ahead to have the camcorder around.

There's absolutely no way the iPhone has enough storage space to make recording video viable without removable storage. Not unless you're only using it for things like Vine.

Re:Any removable storage yet?

[Maury Markowitz]

> There's absolutely no way the iPhone has enough storage space to make recording
> video viable without removable storage

Yet it is the number 1 video source on the planet. So, clearly, the argument is logically wrong.

Here, let me re-phrase your argument so it is logically correct:

"There's absolutely no way the iPhone has enough storage space to make recording *the long videos I make* viable without removable storage"

Which is a pointless argument, akin to saying you can't use an iPhone to drive nails. The iPhone wasn't invented to do everything, it was invented to do some things really well. And the fact that it is the #1 camera and #1 camcorder in the world is proof positive that they have succeeded.

Re:Any removable storage yet?

[dgatwood]

I'm just guessing, of course, but I strongly suspect you have never sold a picture or video, so why do you think your judgement on what makes a toy is remotely valid? When you make your first photo sale to NatGeo or feature film you let us know.

Speaking as someone who spent many years shooting video and selling it, I agree with the GP's assessment. The lack of an optical zoom makes cell phones good enough for selfies and pictures of cats—arguably, maybe even for basic portraiture—but completely useless for a wide range of videography and photography purposes:

• You can't use them to usefully shoot a concert, stage play, dance recital, or any of the things that clued-in folks still use camcorders for, because all you'll see is a tiny white smudge where your kid should be. And if you walk out on stage to get close enough, they'll eject you from the theater.
• And you can't shoot photos of birds in flight, or go whale watching with them, or do pretty much any other kind of nature photography unless you get spectacularly lucky.
• You can't realistically do news gathering with them unless you have a mob of a thousand people who can all be in different places just in case the interesting action happens to occur near those spots.

So essentially, the fact that most people don't use camcorders anymore doesn't mean that phones have gotten good enough, but rather that most camcorder users never took the time to learn how to use their gear in the first place, and thus don't know the difference. For anyone who took the time to learn how to zoom, cell phones really are toys by comparison.

That's not to say that people don't get lucky and take some amazingly cool photos with phones on occasion, and that's not to say that you can't create an artificial shooting environment where a cell phone would be a usable tool, but in the real world, you'll still be missing 90% or more of the great shots because you're too limited by the hardware.

When cell phones become at least a usable approximation of a 24–105mm lens on a DSLR (without being a low-res, digitally zoomed mess), they'll graduate from toys to tools in my book. Until then, it's worth the extra weight of my 6D and my bag of L glass if I know I'm going to be taking pictures, and it's worth the weight of my XH-A1 and a video tripod if I'm shooting video.

Re:Any removable storage yet?

[timeOday]

Better answer: just buy a phone with an SD slot. I do. Lots of people do.

In my case it's to carry my music collection, not make long videos, but same principle. Apple, and everybody else who does not include one, is just being greedy.

Re:Any removable storage yet?

[dgatwood]

And no, at least in my book, removable storage is just a "nice to have". It makes archiving a little easier, assuming it is robust, but otherwise it makes little difference. With that said, I'm not actively engaged in ENG/EFP work. If I were, I might find it more important than I do now.

Re:Any removable storage yet?

[Just Some Guy]

The new models can have up to 128GB of flash. That's about a day and a half of DVD-quality video. Throw in a cheap USB battery pack and you'll be set.

Re:Any removable storage yet?

[_xeno_]

And the fact that it is the #1 camera and #1 camcorder in the world is proof positive that they have succeeded.

I call bullshit on that. The iPhone isn't even the #1 phone in the world.

And let me try and make my point clear: Fake-Steve-Jobs was standing in front of a slide showing a camcorder being destroyed, saying that they were made completely obsolete by the iPhone.

And that's entirely bullshit.

Until the iPhone has a user-replaceable battery and removable storage, it will never replace a real camera or a real camcorder. It simply can't.

Re:Any removable storage yet?

[exomondo]

I only saw one brief bit of the stream, and it was where Steve Jobs Wannabe (Tim Cook?) was explaining how no one used camcorders any more because the iPhone could take better video.

Well relatively speaking, that is true.

Which leads to the obvious question: does the iPhone have a replaceable battery and removable storage yet?

No, because provably in most cases where people want to take video they don't require such things.

Because I still have a camcorder hanging around and I use it when I want to take a video that lasts longer than a couple of minutes. The entire reason I have my camcorder is so that I can take two hour videos.

Where do you get the idea that he is saying the iPhone is the one choice for every possible application? Clearly that's not what he meant, but for the vast majority it is. Even if you want to go beyond the iPhone capabilities the camcorder is still mostly useless for example I have an iPhone and a GoPro, that covers all my video recording needs. Camcorders are niche products.

Can't do either of those with an iPhone, making it a toy at taking pictures and video.

And a camcorder is cumbersome and mostly not carried with you, making it pretty useless for capturing anything but pre-planned moments and even then it's only if those times run into the hours-worth of footage that a camcorder becomes useful. So what you characterize as "a toy" is in reality much more practical and useful in the vast majority of cases.

Re:Any removable storage yet?

[praxis]

An SD slot solves the storage issue but not the battery issue or the optics issue. Most people that need to record video at length have the planning to find a better device. While an SD slot has a lot of advantages, even a slight one on video shooting, it will not turn a phone into an excellent video recorder until we solve the optics problems in a small form factor.

Re:Any removable storage yet?

[CountZer0]

I'm guessing you don't have kids of an age to be doing school concerts, plays and so forth...

The iPhone is complete crap for trying to record that sort of thing. Ok, sure, those recordings are going to suck anyway due to the acoustics of the room and crappy mic setups at the school, but at least with my camcorder I can setup a tripod, leverage decent zoom functionality and have a steady shot that I can easily pan and zoom as needed to film my kids 30 - 45 min performance. I've tried using the iPhone 5 and it lacks in decent zoom ability, storage and *stability*.

I'll keep my camcorder for as long as I have kids in school, thank you very much :)

Re:Any removable storage yet?

[bingoUV]

Making it the most used camera and one of the most used video systems, regardless of what you think.

Most used cameras are of the CCTV variety - hard to beat a 24/7 camera in amount of usage. Most used video system is the eye, in some animal or the other. Electronic equivalent would be the TV - many brands would beat iPhone. And most used electronic video *capture* device, of course, like earlier, CCTV.

Re:Before and After

[istartedi]

Wow. I was rather embarrassed over not having read TFA and everybody pointing out the finger-print thing. After reading your post I think I'm standing up pretty good by comparison.

No metal. Less circular than a moto360. Lame.

[Lobais]

The Slashdot post I was expecting[1] ;-)
[1]: http://slashdot.org/story/01/1...

Re:No metal. Less circular than a moto360. Lame.

[geekoid]

One of my favorite posts in the thread:
http://slashdot.org/comments.p...

Apple now a trend follower?

[purpledinoz]

I don't see a new 4" iPhone 6 in the lineup, did they just abandon this size? It's interesting that Apple is now following the trend, rather than making it. All the iPhone users I know say that they would hate 5" phones because they're too big. Now it seems they have no choice. Although I prefer a 5" screen, I could imagine people would prefer to give up a bigger screen for a smaller phone.

Re:Apple now a trend follower?

[wjcofkc]

Your absolutely right. A lot of iPhone users only want an iPhone due to the traditionally tiny form factor. It is somewhat surprising to see Apple alienate this crowd.

Re:Apple now a trend follower?

[NeoMorphy]

I suspect they'll buy it anyways. Then they can rationalize that because it's thinner, the increase in size is okay.

Re:Apple now a trend follower?

[geekoid]

Apple makes a lot of money from licensing things like case and what not. So they change the size to get more money from licensing.

Re:Apple now a trend follower?

[nabsltd]

Your absolutely right. A lot of iPhone users only want an iPhone due to the traditionally tiny form factor. It is somewhat surprising to see Apple alienate this crowd.

There is no reason the iPhone 6 needs to be larger than the iPhone 5, even with a larger screen.

It's just Apple sticking to the exact same space-wasting layout of previous iPhones that makes it so. My phone has a 5.2" 1920x1080 screen, giving it a bigger screen and more resolution than the iPhone 6, yet the iPhone 6 is only 0.25" less wide (and the same height).

Apple design fail.

Re:Apple now a trend follower?

[david_thornley]

Right now, my 5S is about as big as I want. Any bigger and it'll be constantly sticking out of my shirt pocket. I was thinking of my usual two-generation-skip, but when the 7 comes out and I can't get one as small as the 5S I'm going to be seriously wondering what to do.

Re:Apple now a trend follower?

[CanadianMacFan]

Many of the people that have been buying the smaller Apple phones have been quiet while Apple has been hearing from people who "need" larger phones for years now. You go onto the forums and most of the talk has been people wanting larger screens while very few people speak up about being happy with the current selection. That has to have some impact at Apple though I'm sure that they also do their own research into the market.

Hopefully the people who have been quiet up to now will start to voice their opinion about liking the smaller screens and in the next release we'll get a comparable small screen iPhone.

Re:Apple now a trend follower?

[quacking duck]

We'll know for sure this time next year, when the 5s and 5c get bumped, but I think the answer is yes, since there's no *current* generation iPhone that's the old size.

Re:Apple now a trend follower?

[GbrDead]

All the iPhone users I know ... now ... have no choice. .

What?!

Immediate Loss of 10% of the Market

[Fnord666]

With the watch crown as a control device, this will probably be a non-starter for most left handed people. Most lefties that I know wear their watch, when they wear one, on their right wrist. This means having to reach across the watch and will require a fairly awkward movement to not obscure the screen while fiddling with it.

Re:Immediate Loss of 10% of the Market

[Change]

If there's a setting to flip the display so the watch can be worn upside-down, that would help. Hopefully they implement this.

Re:Immediate Loss of 10% of the Market

[dciman]

I'm assuming you can just flip the watch "upside down" and the software will orient the display for lefties.

The digital crown and lower button would be switched for which one is on top. But, I that could be adapted to.

Or Apple might have a lefty version in the works. Since it's 4+ months out... it's all speculation.

Re:Immediate Loss of 10% of the Market

[jo_ham]

Flip it over.

It's symmetrical about the x axis.

Re:Immediate Loss of 10% of the Market

[jandrese]

Maybe you can wear the watch upside down?

Re:Immediate Loss of 10% of the Market

[Anubis IV]

Flip it over.

It's symmetrical about the x axis.

Not strictly true. The crown is offset towards the top of the device, and there's another button next to the crown that's closer to the bottom of the device. It's likely they can be flipped without any real issue, but where would Slashdot be if we didn't all play the pedant with each other?

(don't answer that)

Re:Immediate Loss of 10% of the Market

[countach]

Lefties should have their knuckles smacked until they repent.

Re:Immediate Loss of 10% of the Market

[countach]

If you're a leftie, you're holding it wrong.

Important missing specs on the watch

[Change]

What's the battery life, and is it waterproof? Neither of those were mentioned in the presentation, and I can't find answers to either question in the marketing docs on Apple's site.

Re:Important missing specs on the watch

[Altus]

They glossed over a ton in that, but they have 4 months to share details. I suspect from all the talk though that it is waterproof.

Re:Important missing specs on the watch

[countach]

It's splash proof. i.e. it can withstand casual exposure to water.

Battery life: I think there was some mention of charging it overnight, so you can assume I think 1 day of battery.

Re:Before and After

[iluvcapra]

And I have had my cards rejected exactly zero times in a decade. This policy is clearly an utter failure -- can you seriously see the cashier at The Gap hand your card back to you and say "I'm sorry, this card doesn't have a valid signature." That's a great way for a shop to lose customers, regardless of whatever the processors policies may be.

In the end, if the CC processors want firm confirmation of identity, an electronic frob (like a phone) or chip-and-PIN is going to be required. Merchants don't care, they do whatever they want as long as the word "APPROVED" appears in the window.

Re:Before and After

[Cro Magnon]

They seldom even check for a signature.

Re:Before and After

[meta-monkey]

No, they'll just hack off your thumb, too.

Cashiers never notice the old "dismembered bloody thumb authentication" trick.

Re:left

[rogoshen1]

Mr. Cook disregarding ~10% of the population who have opposite .. requirements as the rest of the population is kind of funny actually.
(Yes, that was a gay joke. No, it wasn't intended to be malicoius. mod away as troll anyways.)

Big Deal...

[Anonymous Coward]

What's kind of pathetic is that the apple glam boys all lined up in front of Apple Stores without even knowing what was going to be released.

Re:Legacy Support

[grahamsaa]

One way they could do this would be by making it easier to run OSX / MacOS in a VM -- they currently make this very hard. If they didn't intentionally make it hard to virtualize their OS, people would be free to upgrade their hardware and keep an old VM around for the few legacy things they need. I don't mind that Apple doesn't support everything forever -- look how that's worked out for Microsoft.

Lots of reactionary comments here

[Lab Rat Jason]

So much doom and gloom. Here's my take:

Don't like such a big phone? Buy a 5s instead. Upside: you just got a huge discount!
Don't regularly wear a watch? Don't buy a $350 Watch that has to be charged every day. Upside: saved $350
Don't like U2? What kind of a soulless bastard are you?

My take is this: Apple wants to bring the wristwatch back? Good for them. I'm intrigued, but not $350 intrigued. Although I'm not a buyer, I wish apple the best of luck, because I predict that in the not too distant future, things will flip-flop with phones: The thing on your wrist will provide the connectivity for the other devices you carry. Maybe you have a big iPad for large format display and lots of typing or gaming, maybe you have a smaller handset for display to keep things a little more portable while still getting some resolution. But either way, the data "hub" will be the watch on your wrist, and will be capable of complete autonomous function. So when you want to pay for something, leave your "big display" at home, when you want to go for a run, leave your "big display" at home, when you want to go swimming (assuming the watch gets the waterproof treatment that is starting to come into vogue) leave your "big display" at home.

That is a future I can get into, where the one device that never leaves my side is the least intrusive one, while also being the most capable one. Everything else just augments it's capability. Then I'll be a buyer! Incidentally, I'm pretty sure I'll pony up for a 6+ next year though... I for one DO want a bigger display.

Re:Lots of reactionary comments here

[Lab Rat Jason]

Oh.... I forgot one:

Don't like storing your credit cards on your phone (not in the cloud like many posters above have stated), don't store CCs on your phone. Upside: you can rock the Castanza and get marketed to by Bellroy.

The way I understood the payment system, your CC details are stored in a secure chip in the phone, separate from all the other data. The actual transaction is authorized by a one time use code, so the likelihood of your CC info being stolen is far far lower than the risk when carrying a wallet full of cards... it's the one feature I think I like most about the 6.

Re:Lots of reactionary comments here

[Wraithlyn]

I'm interested in Apple Pay.

I'm not interested in a bigger phone, or the watch.

This leaves me with no options.

Re:Lots of reactionary comments here

[jo_ham]

Your card details are not stored. A hash of your card number is stored. This hash is sent to the bank via the merchant along with a transaction ID and the device ID. The merchant never knows what the card number is, and it's not kept on the phone. Only the bank knows what the number is.

For this to work you have to verify the phone with the bank first (and share the hash with them). From then on, no one else needs to know your card number - including Apple.

Re:Lots of reactionary comments here

[WhatHump]

... I predict that in the not too distant future, things will flip-flop with phones: The thing on your wrist will provide the connectivity for the other devices you carry.

The engineering challenge will be to come up with a battery small enough to fit in a watch, that can power all the functionality of a phone.

Re:Lots of reactionary comments here

[Lab Rat Jason]

I agree, and there is still TONS of innovation to be done on that front. Here's my short list:

Batteries are getting better and better energy density, but they still need to double.
Wireless charging in the armrest of your car, and the palm rest of your keyboard. (my watch would NEVER die if I had those two things)
Better energy efficiency in display tech
Better energy efficiency in cellular tech (probably requires spectrum change, but I'm no engineer)
Better energy efficiency in processor tech

We've seen great advances in all of these areas... we just need to keep going, and then someone needs to put it all together.

Apple is always cautious. They don't enter a market until they are (pretty) sure they can dominate it. Maybe that's why they stayed away from real wireless charging... maybe they weren't able to get the tech good enough, maybe they didn't have the right patents... but either way, once the tech has stabilized, you can bet your behind that apple will incorporate it into their devices. Just like they did with NFC payment. Obviously it remains to be seen, but as all those critics above pointed out, it's a feature that other phones have had for a long time... I'll bet Apple's implementation will be one of the best. They weren't the first MP3 player on the market, they weren't the first cell phone on the market, but when they choose to enter the market, they typically perform pretty well.

Re:Lots of reactionary comments here

[Trashcan Romeo]

Bono said today, "Working with Apple is always a blast. They only want to do things that haven’t been done before — that’s a thrill to be a part of.” This makes me wish I could travel back in time to 1983 and tell my 16 year old self that while "New Year's Day" is indeed a great single that becoming a fan of the band will not pan out in the long run.

Re:Lots of reactionary comments here

[ruir]

I can relate to that one about the U2. If I am watching a technical or sales presentation, it is all that I expect. In Europe, everything does have to be a theatrical show, you know?

Re:WRT to Apple Watch, the big question is...

[Anubis IV]

No mention of it whatsoever in the keynote, which suggests it's either:
A) Still being worked on (the device doesn't come out until 2015, after all), so it's not known what the final version will be.
B) Horrific, so they'd rather put the info out quietly later instead of mentioning it now.

Re:WiFi Calling?

[s122604]

Republic Wireless has been doing this for awhile now.
Works right out of the box...
Sorry, apple isn't first here, or, first to make it usable.
Of course republic gives you WiFi calling, unlimited talk, text, and 4g data for 40$ a month so Apple can still rightfully claim they are the first to charge entirely too much for it...

Re:Before and After

[jo_ham]

If you cut his finger off, yes.

Re:WiFi Calling?

[necro81]

I suppose Apple had to join in on the 2009 smartphone market at some point. 5+ years too late, better than never?

So your 1009 WiFi calling transitioned from WiFi to cell networks without dropping call?

In the year 1009 my WiFi calling was implemented using swallows carrying the messages from place to place. Of course they had to drop them - do you think I was going to try and catch that damn bird myself just to get a message?

Re:No Dick Tracy calls?

[Austerity Empowers]

Would you use the leather strap, the stainless steel or the milanese loop for that?

Re:Waterproof? Battery life?

[mydn]

I can swim with my phone, but you have a point about battery life. My phone battery only lasts a few days.

Re:So.....

[Maury Markowitz]

> But something more focused on security versus the "bling" that apple is trying to promote

Really, you're claiming you're interested in an *Android phone* because of *security*.

> my 2c

Is obviously worth 0c.

> the gs5 --:> bigger, new features, better battery life then the last model, better processor

The iP6 -> bigger, new features, better battery life than the last model, better processor

You did actually watch the 'cast before writing this moronic post, right?

Re:Waterproof? Battery life?

[macs4all]

Two competitive advantages a $10 Timex from Walmart has over the Apple watch: You can take it to the pool, and the battery lasts years without requiring a charge or replacement.

Let's take that down to one advantage (batter life).

I heard that the Apple Watch will withstand underwater pressure to 30ft, which is about as far as most casual divers go, due to nitrogen issues ("the Bends").

Re:WiFi Calling?

[0xdeadbeef]

Sure thing, bro! On a BlackBerry! In 2008!

You'll also note they mentioned T-Mobile explicitly in the presentation in regard to this. Apparently "Apple makes it usable" with T-Mobile doing all the work.

Re:Legacy Support

[macs4all]

>We should be able to run all legacy applications back to MacOS 1.0

You want an OS to continue to improve, while being able to run 15 year old apps?

Good luck with that.

Yeah.

Ask Microsoft how well that panned-out for them.

Re:WiFi Calling?

[jbeaupre]

Yes. My flip phone did this 5 years ago.

The real problem was when visiting somewhere that had the necessary network port blocked.

Re:Legacy Support

[occasional_dabbler]

MacOS 1.0 != OSX 1.0

although to be fair, MacOS 1.0 = Null, it was called System 1, the MacOS naming came in at 7.6

Re:Scan here for a free 'whatever' sucker.

[mla_anderson]

OK, so don't lose your phone and your thumb.

The real question is, can they sell it?

[FellowConspirator]

The iPhone 6 is a nice evolution, but not revolutionary. Allowing users to call Wi-Fi to mobile (rather than pure VOIP) or vice-versa and transition smoothly from Wi-Fi to mobile is a nice touch. I like the way they implemented the payment system - it SHOULD be more secure than NFC and be more convenient. The new screen sizes will piss of developers a bit, I'm sure. The iWatch -- that's a hard sell for me. A one day battery life, tethered to a phone, and a $350 price-tag for a piece of technology that Apple helped go out of style? On it's face, it seems stupid.

iPhone 6 - fair update. iWatch - dud.

Let's see how many they move in 6 months. Frankly, I'm surprised we didn't see more stuff announced.

Re:The real question is, can they sell it?

[Ash-Fox]

The new screen sizes will piss of developers a bit

No, it won't. The developers get to "redevelop" "HD" versions of their apps and require users to repurchase to get "HD".

Re:Before and After

[mla_anderson]

That has actually happened to me once. I signed it right then and there and handed it back...no problems.

You don't seem to understand security.

[Brannon]

It has nothing to do with perfection. It's about statistics.

Re:WiFi Calling?

[macs4all]

I suppose Apple had to join in on the 2009 smartphone market at some point. 5+ years too late, better than never?

They were "late" to the Music Player and Phone markets, too. And look how that turned out.

Re:left

[phishen]

setup andddd spike

Re:Legacy Support

[occasional_dabbler]

Killing off legacy support early is both a strength and a weakness for Apple. It makes for less bloated software and slick hardware. It is the antithesis of the Windows approach, where support for ancient software and hardware is still provided by current versions at the expense of hidden horrors in the OS and anachronisms like PS/2 mouse ports on hardware.

Re:Legacy Support

[TechyImmigrant]

Please NO!. Do not bring back System 7.

iWatch is a pretty cool prototype

[Theovon]

If I had disposable income, I might get an iWatch for my wife (who actually uses a watch). This is a great little toy for people with some disposable income and an itch to collect expensive gadgets. It looks cool and probably has some great functionality.

For those complaining about it, they're expecting too much from a first-generation product. Give it a few years, and the features, battery life, and price will improve to a point where more of us would consider buying one. Meanwhile, Apple gets to test out ideas that will improve its later products, and some of what is learned from this will also positively impact other Apple products.

Some time next year, I'll go check one out in an Apple store for about a minute. (Which is about how long I can stand to be in an Apple store since I already know everything about the products before I go there, so I get bored quickly.)

Re:WiFi Calling?

[sexconker]

My girlfriend's 2007/2008 model Blackberry on T-Mobile did.

Re:No Dick Tracy calls?

[ColdWetDog]

Given the size of the plus version, you could certainly strap in on as a sandal. It's got Gorilla Glass and aluminum - pretty strong. A strap, a little padding and you're there.

Re:Scan here for a free 'whatever' sucker.

[adamstew]

wow. really? If someone steals my phone and hacks off my thumb, then one of the last things that i'm going to worry about is them going to a McDonalds and hold up a bloodied iPhone and dismembered finger up to the payment system to buy a cheeseburger.

laugh

[koan]

Apple has had such penetration in the last 10 years they can inject their mediocrity into the payment and financial system, and no one seems to remember all their security failures.

Would you trust Apple with your bank account?

My main takeaway

[DrXym]

Apple have launched a smart watch which is technically indistinct all the other smart watches.

All smart watches suck. They suck for being tied to a phone. They suck for being tied to specific phone OS and models. They suck for their battery life. They suck for their displays which turn off to save battery. Maybe if someone was upgrading from a fitbit or similar they'd be useful but I just don't see the mass market appeal in these things until they fix these issues.

Re:My main takeaway

[DrXym]

I suspect it is to some degree (even if that means Samsung flavoured phones of some kind) and it'll suck for battery life like all the rest.

BTW I think it looks like a nice watch but looks should never be at the expense of doing watchy things like telling the time. A watch design that turns off to save battery is a fundamentally broken design.

Re:My main takeaway

[Cederic]

Yeah, I'm holding out for the hybrid mechanical smartwatch. Automatic movement with a physical dial to tell the time, overlaid by electronic features when the battery's charged.

e.g. https://kairoswatches.com/ would get my money if they did a titanium case/bracelet for that, even if it is a generic third party movement.

Re:WiFi Calling?

[afidel]

Yes, my 2007 Blackberry on T-Mobile transitioned from WiFi to cellular without dropping calls just fine. It's not exactly rocket science.

Re:Ah yes...

[geekoid]

The may I suggest you stop reading about the things you don't care about?

Apple is solidifing their fashion brand appeal.

[Qbertino]

Apple is solidifing their fashion brand appeal, no doubt about it. This is their single largest feat within the last 1,5 decades: They've managed to become the only tech company in the world that factually is a fashion brand in broad perception and a tech brand with a professional reputation. Brilliant, that's what.

Sad thing they've been pissing of us opinion leaders with golden cages and lock-in in recent years. I just bought my first non-apple device in 8 years - a refurbished Lenovo ThinkPad. Couldn't say I'd by an Apple computer again. They're still good, Maveriks, hw integration and all, but having to sigh up just to get the FOSS compilers and all just doesn't scrub the right way with me.

My 2 cents.

Re:Apple is solidifing their fashion brand appeal.

[rainer_d]

You signed up here to post, too.
Where exactly is your problem?

Re:Apple is solidifing their fashion brand appeal.

[Just Some Guy]

Sign up for what? Xcode is a free download from the app store, and you can use it to install Homebrew and be a single command away from having gcc4[345789] installed. There's almost literally nothing they could do to make that easier other than shipping Xcode with OS X, but that would be a waste of storage for the 99.9% of users who wouldn't ever use it.

Re:Apple is solidifing their fashion brand appeal.

[Anonymous Coward]

A fashion company that employs thousands of engineers. A fashion company that created not one, but TWO major operating systems. A fashion company that designs bleeding edge SOCs in house and rolls them out to the most modern fab process. A fashion company that created 3 of the top selling tech products of all time (iPod, iPhone, iPad). All in the last 1.5 decades.

I can see why their stock is so high, they're pretty far ahead of Calvin Klien at all of these things. I mean, Calvin Klien has a ... website? Since, after all, they are a fashion company, we should obviously be comparing them to other fashion companies, right?

Re:Apple is solidifing their fashion brand appeal.

[Qbertino]

FYI: Was posted on a tablet with flaky response. Sorry about the typos.

Re:Apple release a new phones that

[praxis]

behind other phones n the market. Like it always has

They were not behind in 2007, therefore they have not *always* been behind.

Trick photography

[jbeaupre]

I'm not sure I agree with the explanation in the article, but it does look like Apple tried to make the phones look artificially thinner

http://qz.com/262355/apple-use...

Won't somebody, please, think of developers!

[flabordec]

I seem to remember device fragmentation was a gigantic problem that made Android impossible to develop for (and the main reason why many people chose Apple over Android). How will those poor developers adapt now that Apple has three phone sizes and two tablet sizes (or maybe more?)?

Re:Won't somebody, please, think of developers!

[Ash-Fox]

I seem to remember device fragmentation was a gigantic problem that made Android impossible to develop for (and the main reason why many people chose Apple over Android). How will those poor developers adapt now that Apple has three phone sizes and two tablet sizes (or maybe more?)?

They'll make "HD" versions of apps you already bought, that you will have to buy again.

Re:So, in short...

[Altus]

yeah, lots of places to use that NFC you have had in your shiny phone for the last 2 years.

This will make a huge impact on the payment market and it might actually get to the point where the NFC in android phones is actually useful at a large number of retailers. But of course you will all say that google made NFC payments happen because memory is funny that way.

Re:Legacy Support

[geekoid]

My Nexus 4 just works. My car just works, my iPad just works.

Re:Ah yes...

[TechyImmigrant]

I have no interest in what you are or are not interested. I was responding to the AC at the top of this thread, which may or may not be you. If you don't like it, go and start your own internet cess pit.

Re:No "standard" iPhone size?

[Kjella]

I think Apple is dropping the ball by not even offering a smaller sized iPhone.

Unfortunately the whole market has leaped off the deep end on this one with "small" models bigger than the old flagships like for example the LG G2 Mini is 4.7", Sony Xperia Z3 Compact is 4.6" and the Samsung Galaxy S5 Mini and HTC One Mini 2 are both 4.5" - just as big as the new iPhone. I won't even comment on the 5" LG G3 Mini, as opposed to the full 5.5" version. In fact Apple is the only one who calls a <5" screen normal anymore. Obviously with a smaller screen and smaller phone you can't put the biggest, fastest and most features in it but I still find it disappointing that nobody takes the small sized phones seriously. I'm consider the Z3 Compact as it seems to be a decent compromise, but will wait until the reviews are out.

Re:Ah yes...

[TechyImmigrant]

You can suggest it, but I will ignore your suggestion and carry on slacking off at work.

Re:Before and After

[Anonymous Coward]

Nobody cares if you use someone else's credit card, unless it's been reported stolen and deactivated. I've used my disabled mother's credit card with her permission to do her grocery shopping and such, hundreds of times over more than a decade, and nobody has ever questioned me for being a man using a card with a woman's name on it.

Re:Apple release a new phones that

[macs4all]

behind other phones n the market. Like it always has.

at 349, I might have bought one, depending on how it feels. But I am not also going to buy an iPhone. This reminds me of when the tried to sell macs by making iTunes mac only.

In what ways is Apple Pay not an advance over other smartphones? That alone is a huge feature for a huge percentage of phone users.

Also, you have a short memory: Apple released iTunes for Windows in October, 2003, just about as fast as they could port it from OS X, after introducing the iTunes Store. And, IIRC, the first iPods worked with Windows, too. I suppose you will now claim that iTunes was originally withheld from OS X, because Apple wanted to keep users on MacOS 9, too... (rolls eyes)

No stylus, no sale.

[GrBear]

Sorry Apple.. but as much as I would love the iPhone 6 Plus, the fact that it still doesn't have a stylus input is a deal breaker for me. I'm eligible for an upgrade in two months. So it's either a toss up between a regular iPhone 6 or a Note 4.

Re:No stylus, no sale.

[Cederic]

Yeah, I've made a few Apple tablet owners insanely jealous with my "Samsung Note 10.1 2014 Edition". Shite name, gorgeous tablet and for handwritten notes and diagrams in the office/meetings it's genuinely excellent.

No reason at all that Apple couldn't match it, it's just a proper pressure sensitive stylus with sensible software support.

Flamebait

[Anonymous Coward]

I gotta say--and I'm an apple fanboy, with my iPad, iPhone, Macbook Pro (daily use), older backup Macbook pro, and macbook (paperweight)--but I'm bored by this. I cannot for the life of me figure out why I'd bother to wear this bulky thing. And don't say FitBit, because counting the number of steps you take in a day is just stupid. Go for a run.

Re:Scan here for a free 'whatever' sucker.

[Anubis IV]

Still no user auth.

You're kidding, right? Every demo showed the use of a fingerprint scan to authorize purchase. You're just making stuff up and asserting it as fact, despite ample evidence to the contrary.

Re:Google should go after Apple, AT&T and Veri

[macs4all]

Apple Pay works with Visa, Mastercard, and American express? And it'll ship working with these while on AT&T & Verizon's networks? If I were Google, I'd lawyer up.

Visa, Mastercard, AT&T, and Verizon have all tried to ruin Google Wallet because they wanted to come up with their own standard for everyone to adopt. They are why Google Wallet isn't available on non Nexus devices from the big 2 wireless providers in the US.

So, if Google does it, these companies actively block it. If Apple does it, they welcome them with open arms?

That's bullshit.

So please tell me: Is there another "Wallet" system that has hardware integration, creating what amounts to a "Double-Blind" transaction that is essentially immune from hacking?

If Google cared about your privacy (which Eric Schmidt has publicly stated is a dead issue), and cared about selling hardware (which they clearly don't), then they could have made Google Wallet be as secure, or perhaps even more secure, than Apple's Wallet.

But they don't, so they didn't, so now Apple does their usual bit of swooping in from behind and blindsiding the competition with a system that in one fell swoop, overcomes the limitations and objections that NFC-based payment systems have.

Nope, it's called competition; something that Slashdot readers prize beyond many other things...

Re:Before and After

[CanadianMacFan]

That's why I used another finger for authentication!

This is great news for thieves

[Joel Cahoon]

Since the watch will require an iPhone to function, thieves will no longer have to wonder! All they have to do is spot the $350 device on my wrist to know that there's a $600 device in my pocket.

Re:This is great news for thieves

[Uberbah]

...which are pretty much worthless with Find My iPhone turned on by default.

Re:Scan here for a free 'whatever' sucker.

[DeTech]

Wasn't the fingerprint scan cracked 45min after it was released last announcement? Is that ample evidence of foolproof authentication?

Re:Scan here for a free 'whatever' sucker.

[Xaedalus]

There's always Florida!!!!

Re:Wrist Heart Rate Monitor

[Ranbot]

It depends on the level of accuracy you need. If you're a casual user who generally wants to know their heart rate and track daily activity on a macro level, then a wrist monitor is probably fine. A wrist heart monitor is like an upgrade to a pedometer. Even individually inaccurate measurements can become relatively accurate when averaged together over a long period time. But professional/amateur athletes tracking heart rates in real-time throughout a workout, will want the immediate accuracy of a chest strap monitor.

Re:Before and After

[jandrese]

I have the same thing written on my card and I get asked probably 75% of the time for my ID. This is the Northern Virginia area though, where maybe people are more security conditioned?

Re:WiFi Calling?

[clonehappy]

My BlackBerry on T-Mobile had Wi-Fi calling in 2007 that would hand off between the Wi-Fi and cellular network. Of course, now that the device using it has a piece of fruit on the back of it, it's magically "usable". Come to think of it, it was tough to use the feature on my old BlackBerry, you know, you just had to leave the Wi-Fi on and whenever you were in range of a suitable AP it would work automatically. I'm sure Apple has made it much easier than that.

Meh.

[Moof123]

Still not interested. That is all.

Apple catalyst

[Barlo_Mung_42]

I'll never use Apple Pay but I hope it takes off any way so a lot more stores will upgrade their readers which in turn I hope will cause the credit card companies to issue more secure cards.

iPad Mini is redundant now

[Ranbot]

I predict that soon after the iPhone 6 Plus launch Apple's will quietly announce that they are discontinuing the Mini.

Re:Before and After

[schlachter]

Fixed it for you....

Cashiers never notice the "old dismembered bloody thumb authentication" trick.

Re:Scan here for a free 'whatever' sucker.

[Anubis IV]

You're moving the goalposts, but before I address your question, let's consider the alternatives that this is intended to replace: swipe or chip-and-PIN. Yes, Touch ID can be cracked, but it requires extended physical access to the device, a copy of the fingerprints, significant expense (around $2000 for the type of printer used and the various other consumable materials), and a day or so to go through the multi-step process of creating the fake fingerprint. All of which means it won't be done casually by unscrupulous cashiers or amateur thieves, which is something Americans face today (my parents are dealing with this right now, in fact). And by the time a person who's actually invested in this stuff manages to go through the whole process of creating a fake fingerprint, the owner of the lost device would be likely to have already revoked Apple Pay access remotely anyway.

Contrast that with swipe: if you compromise physical access to the card, you compromise everything. Or chip-and-PIN, which only adds the additional barrier of a PIN that can be procured by just looking over someone's shoulder at the right time. In comparison to either one of those, it's both more convenient and more secure.

So, to answer your question, no, it's not foolproof, but considering amateur card theft is still rampant in America and perfectly possible overseas, we can say that this system is significantly more secure than what we have now for payments at physical retail locations. It's also more private, since I never have to expose my information to the retailer. And it's more durable, since I don't need to worry about magnetic stripes failing due to wear and tear. And it's also more convenient, since it means less things to carry and less interactions necessary to complete the transaction.

Which is all to say, it's good to point out that Touch ID has been cracked and that that is indeed a vector for a possible form of theft, but let's put that fact in context and recognize that our current systems are significantly less secure and that this represents a massive improvement over them.

Payments over phone or internet?

[pubwvj]

So the new iOS has payment abilities to store my credit cards but it sounds like that is for when I'm physically at a store. 99% of my 'shopping' does not involve going to a physical location but is over the web via my laptop computer or in a few cases over my landline phone. There is no cellphone service around here. I never shop via my iOS device. I very rarely shop in person. I would rather just give my credit card number to the sales person over the phone or web. I've almost never had a problem with fraud and in the extremely few cases the credit card company took care of the issue. That's what you pay the fees for.

Re:Scan here for a free 'whatever' sucker.

[Anubis IV]

It actually was cracked fairly quickly (a few days after it was released), but it's not nearly as trivial of a process as his comment might suggest. More or less, if you have a really nice scanner, a somewhat specialized printer, a detailed copy of their fingerprints, and at least a day or two to sit around waiting for ink that's been printed on top of ink to dry, then for glue to cure, you can do it, but the up-front cost is in the thousands of USD, so it's not something someone is going to casually do, and by the time they'd have had a chance to do it, you'd have had every chance to remotely disable Apple Pay/your entire phone.

Re:Legacy Support

[pubwvj]

Apparently you missed the Apple quote that was quoted. Relax. You'll have a stroke.

Unforeseen consequences...

[denzacar]

http://www.fitbit.com/forcesup...

While only 1.7% of Force users have reported any type of skin irritation, we care about every one of our customers. On behalf of the entire Fitbit team, I want to apologize to anyone affected. ...
Independent test results have not found any issues with the battery or electrical systems.
Test results show that users are likely experiencing allergic contact dermatitis.
All Force materials are commonly used in consumer products. However, some users may be reacting to the nickel present in the surgical grade stainless steel used in the device. Other users are likely experiencing an allergic reaction to the materials used in the strap or the adhesives used to assemble the product.

And that's just one of them, that Fitbit ran into.
Apple may be running into that same one, AND MORE, once people start using their watch instead of the Fitbit or using it like the Fitbit.

For one, Fitbit's battery lasts a week. Tim Cook suggested charging Apple Watch over night.
With all those sensors, "Taptic" actuators, color screens... I have a feeling that's a rather optimistic estimate.
They didn't mention the battery for a reason.

Also, I have a feeling that the "Digital Crown" won't last. At least for people trying to use the watch for tracking their activity.
Either it will be replaced by a slide sensor, dropped, or Apple may come out with a iBrush to clean the iGrime.

Price, naturally is an issue for many as Fitbit is 3.5 times cheaper AND does not require a new iPhone too boot.

Apple Watch also features the same old issues which caused Woz to throw away his Samsung Galaxy Gear, dubbing it "worthless".
http://www.theguardian.com/tec...

You had to hold it up to your ear and stuff. ...
"I want my smartphone [on my wrist], but I really want the whole thing," said Wozniak. "I don't want just a little Bluetooth connection to the smartphone in my pocket because then it's just an intermediary, an extra thing I buy to get what I already have and have to carry anyway."

His comments reflect a trend seen in the adoption of wearable technology by consumers. Around 40% of UK consumers ended up abandoning them because they got bored with the idea or simply forgot to put them on, according to research by CCS Insight. Fewer than half a million smartwatches were in use in the UK by March this year, according to data from research company KWP ComTech.

The story is similar in the US. One-third of American consumers have also stopped using a smart wearable device within six months of purchase according to data from Endeavour Partners.

Though, the reality distortion field is a powerful force, and one that must be reckoned with.
From USA TODAY:
http://www.usatoday.com/story/...

As with other smartwatches, consumers will be able to change watch faces on the new Apple Watch and customize it in various ways.
I especially liked a watchface featuring Mickey Mouse.

Customizable wallpaper/skin. A highlighted feature for the Apple crowd.

Re:No Dick Tracy calls?

[toonces33]

To do that, you would really need to buy two. But I guess the upside is that you would then have the ability to use your apps while taking a phone call.

Re:Legacy Support

[jbolden]

What lot of people is that? Anyway the people that made Rosetta for Apple was Transitive Corporation which was acquired by IBM. The product doesn't exist anymore. Talk to IBM if there are a lot of people willing to pay for PPC applications.

As far as classic: http://sheepshaver.cebix.net/

Re:Scan here for a free 'whatever' sucker.

[Anubis IV]

Don't be daft.

http://slashdot.org/index2.pl?...

http://apple.slashdot.org/stor...

http://istouchidhackedyet.com/

If you still wanted a link after my previous post, you could have asked for it more politely than with such a specious line, but I trusted that you were smart enough to find such things on your own once someone corroborated what the troll said, so I saw little reason in doing your work for you.

Re:No Dick Tracy calls?

[macs4all]

Not impressed.

Well pray tell then, AC, what would have "Impressed" you? Perhaps an Apple Watch powered by Cold Fusion, or by harvesting heat energy from your body?

A real wearable computer that doesn't fucking need the smartphone besides it to be useful ? Right now, Apple's smartwatch is nothing more than a glorified remote control for the iphone (5 and up). Ridiculous. Samsung's Galaxy Gear S is leagues better than Apple's 0.01 version. There's simply no contest.

And people in Hell want Ice Water, too.

just HOW thick do you want the Apple Watch to be? Or, conversely, just HOW many SECONDS of battery life do you want?

Until we get a serious breakthrough in battery technology (or power-consumption figures), this is about where we are, sorry.

Re:Waterproof? Battery life?

[Cederic]

WR to 30 feet means bad weather and doing the washing up at best. You even jump into a swimming pool and you're in trouble.

http://littlejewellers.co.uk/f...

My main watch has 100m water resistance and for swimming/watersports I wear the cheaper one that has 200m water resistance.

Meh

[Greyfox]

I won't be happy until my MacBook is small enough to comfortably rest on my pinkie-nail and my iPhone is as big as a Monolith! An iMonolith! The ad campaign can have a bunch of monkeys dancing around it. Yeah.

Re:left

[dgatwood]

Or heck, swap the band and use the orientation sensor to automatically rotate it appropriately.

Re:Scan here for a free 'whatever' sucker.

[Noah Haders]

whos being daft. ggggp made specious and unsubstantiated claim. I called link. you followed up with equally unfounded claim. I called link. Now you follow up with a link to a Slashdot story, which I immediately call betternridge on. reading more about it on the tubes (news sites not the thing you provided).

here's the deal: touchid was not "hacked". it was spoofed. its like if your phone was protected by a password, and someone stole your password by looking over your shoulder, it's hard to say the phone was hacked. also, this isn't something that can be deployed on a large scale, but rather requires a mission-impossible fingerprint scanner and latex printer.

so, your original claim is false.

How can they?

[SuperKendall]

The charging pad goes on the back, seems like it would be really hard to charge while wearing.

Re:Before and After

[mythosaz]

I have "Ask for Photo ID" written on the back of all my credit cards. I'd say the cashiers do as they're instructed about 1% of the time. We can't rely on the merchants to enforce the security of the system more than bare compliance requires, they're not on the hook for the losses.

We can't rely on cardholders to follow their cardholder agreement either.

The signature panel isn't for identification, it's for acceptance of terms and conditions.

Unless your signature is "Ask for Photo ID," then you've failed to accept the terms and conditions and any good merchant should tell you to pound sand.

Re:Waterproof? Battery life?

[macs4all]

WR to 30 feet means bad weather and doing the washing up at best. You even jump into a swimming pool and you're in trouble.

http://littlejewellers.co.uk/f...

My main watch has 100m water resistance and for swimming/watersports I wear the cheaper one that has 200m water resistance.

I can't help it if your watch makers lie. I expect WR to 30ft (10m) to mean just that.

Or are scuba-divers/watersports enthusiasts (sorry, I just chuckled a little at that) just used to subtracting an order-of-magnitude from all their equipment's "water-resistant" specs, due to rampant fraud by equipment vendors?

Re:Before and After

[mythosaz]

Yup. Happens to me too.

The signature isn't about identification - it's about agreeing to the cardholder agreement.

Re:No "standard" iPhone size?

[puto]

I am a tiny guy, 5'2 with girl hands, I can reach all corners of my moth x with my my thumbs.

Re:WiFi Calling?

[puto]

my galaxy s2 did this with no problem.

Re:Waterproof? Battery life?

[Cederic]

Did you even fucking read the website I linked you to? I know you're a fucking Apple fan but is even the tiniest bit of common fucking sense and intelligence too much to ask?

30 feet of resistance in static water is nowhere near the pressure the moment you move your fucking arm underwater. Do try and keep up with basic fucking physics.

Shit, I just saved you $350 replacing your new fucking toy and you're insisting on killing it anyway and suggesting that watchmakers worldwide are fraudulent. Fuck you.

Re:Hacking Time Again...

[Noah Haders]

you can't crack it cuz of the sapphire screen...

Re: Waterproof? Battery life?

[macs4all]

Wow! Do you fucking kiss your fucking mother with that fucking mouth? (J/k)

To be perfectly honest, I didn't see your link; but after you mentioned "arm-movement", I do have enough common-sense, intelligence and knowledge of physics to realize you are correct, even without consulting the linked-site.

In short, you win. I know no one ever actually apologizes on /. , but I offer mine to you for not thinking the issue through (and for not seeing your link). Chalk it up to "Hm, I never thought about that!"

Re:Wrist Heart Rate Monitor

[AlexSasha]

Mio came out with a really accurate wrist worn HR monitor earlier this year. I was finally able to replace my trusty Garmin chest strap. However, they have a patented tech that I am pretty sure was not licensed to Apple.

Re:Legacy Support

[iluvcapra]

Killing off legacy support early is both a strength and a weakness for Apple.

It depends, Apple is strategic about which APIs it keeps and which it cuts. QuickTime has finally been deprecated after 20 years, and up to 10.7 or so it was still the default platform for working with video on the platform. In that time it changed very little, they just kept adding codecs to it -- occasionally in Mac development you'd have to go into the QuickTime headers to work with some data structure or interface with the old Component/Code Framgment Manager, and it was like digging through grandpa's attic, Handles and UPPs and big-endian FourCC fields. To this day you can take an Apple Intermediate Codec .mov file with AAC and reencode it as Sorenson Video 3 with 8 bit Mu-Law, the 90s legacy media platform is still completely intact.

The Core Audio and Core MIDI APIs are also basically unchanged since OS X 10... 1? The media frameworks are where Apple's core business is; the Apple systems people are constantly tweaking data persistence, and languages, toolsets, UI elements, and the deployment package, but the media libraries seem to be sacred cows.

They're beginning to subsume CoreAudio under some new AV frameworks but it's all still there; QuickTime is finally going away because it isn't deployed on iOS (and probably can't be). And not many people have CinePak or Apple Animation MOVs anymore.

Re:No "standard" iPhone size?

[AmiMoJo]

5" phones fit in pockets just fine. I don't know where this meme started.

Re:Legacy Support

[pipedwho]

VMWare Fusion runs OSX fine without any cleverness. Just tell Fusion you're installing OSX and when the installer asks, just enter your Apple ID and password. I haven't tried with really ancient versions of OSX, but it definitely works for OSX 10.7 and up (and OSX 10.5 Server and up). You don't even need the installation media as it downloads the OS from the net during installation.

Re:No Dick Tracy calls?

[cyberchondriac]

an iLoafer ?

Re:No Dick Tracy calls?

[narcc]

People seem to want a smart watch that is, at a minimum, as useful as their smart phone. The trouble, of course, is that no one has any idea what such a device would be like.

I was completely surprised that Apple announced a watch. If I were a betting man, I'd have lost my shirt. While they delivered something different, with a novel interface (I do like the 'crown' control, it reminds me of the jog-wheel on my old 7290) they didn't deliver the mythical "wrist computer" that the wearable computing crowd wanted.

I don't blame them for being disappointed. After all, the die-hard Apple fans all but guaranteed that Cupertino could deliver. The sentiment was: "if anyone can do it, Apple can!"

I didn't think that Apple could deliver -- I'm not sure anyone could deliver -- which is why I was struck when they revealed it. I'll give them this: They did better than I expected. We'll see how this influences future watch offerings from Apple and their competitors. If it's at all possible, healthy competition should help crack that nut.

Is the watch OLED?

[quenda]

I cannot see anything official that says what the display tech will be. Rumours of a curved OLED are obviously false.
Or are Apple sticking with LCD on both phone and watch?
I really loved the always-on notifications on my old Nokia N9 oled. (dim standby)
Oh well, at least they have NFC now.

Re:Scan here for a free 'whatever' sucker.

[Just Some Guy]

And to prevent even that, Touch ID doesn't work with a cut off finger.

That was intentional

[SuperKendall]

right down to the "You need to use Safari to watch this video"

That part was intentional though, as a marketing tool they only live-streamed to Apple devices (and publicized that fact). So even though annoying, you can't really count it as an error.

Re: No Dick Tracy calls?

[macs4all]

I was kinda hoping that Apple was going to sit this trend out, too.

Like you, I have enough knowledge and experience as an embedded Dev. For over three decades to know that we just aren't quite "there" yet, and that not even the technical might of Apple can bend enough laws of physics to make the impractical a reality.

And like you, I think they have done about as good as "we" can right now, because, even though the Galaxy S has (battery-sucking) WiFi, and apparently has an OS that allows for limited App execution, it really isn't a replacement for your smartphone until it has a cellphone and a front-facing camera in it (and now we've broken the bank, power and space-wise).

So, in a sense, Apple has found the best sweet spot overall for this class of device. Even in TNG-world, sometimes they would have to link Tricorders together, or upload data sets to the Enterprise so that more compute-power could be brought to bear on a problem. Just like most people wouldn't expect to run Maya on their phone, I don't think it's reasonable to expect "smartphone parity" from a watch just yet.

Re:Scan here for a free 'whatever' sucker.

[thule]

NFC has a counter feature as part of the standard. Each time a credit card number is used, the counter goes up one. This is to prevent a replay attach. The problem is you can't take a plastic credit card with NFC and put that number into the phone and expect the counter to work correctly. Use the phone, the counter goes up, use the plastic, the counter goes up. Use the phone again, counter is wrong. To fix this problem, Google creates a new credit card number for tap and pay. Apple says they go one step further and create a new number for each transaction. That seems to go a bit further than needed. The counter would prevent replay attacks since this virtual card would only be used for tap and pay. I just wonder if the wording by Apple today was slightly off. Just a guess.

The main point is what Apple was doing is, by and large, standard stuff. Both Google and Apple just implemented a standard. Yeah, a few tweaks here and there, but it is certainly now revolutionary!

Re:Scan here for a free 'whatever' sucker.

[Noah Haders]

a lot of words, man. but no meaning. counter system? what does that even mean? Increment? What if you decrement? A whole host of issues. Apple stuff just works.

Re:Scan here for a free 'whatever' sucker.

[rsborg]

Wasn't the fingerprint scan cracked 45min after it was released last announcement? Is that ample evidence of foolproof authentication?

How feasible was the CCC method of cracking? Has it been reproduced? What was the time investment to perform the cracking - I remember them using a 2400 dpi scanner and latex milk.

Re:Scan here for a free 'whatever' sucker.

[thule]

No meaning? Look up CVC3 security. Apple did nothing new here. It is all standard. It just works because the credit card companies have been building this stuff up for years and years. You don't have to know about the counter, it is there to prevent cloning.

What if you decrement? That is the whole point! You can't clone a transaction! Even if you get the CC number, the counter would prevent it from being used. This is a low level security measure that makes NFC payments more secure than magstripe. It is a good thing. I'm happen that Apple finally added NFC.

Legal issues - driving and kill switch

[sl149q]

Will it be legal to wear the Apple Watch (or for that matter any smart watch) while driving (where handheld devices are outlawed)? One hopes that it will be illegal to use it as a phone replacement, but legal to wear. But that leads to people cheating and a very hard to enforce law.

Will the Apple Watch have a kill switch? Will the laws requiring kill switches in smart phones mandate a kill switch? Now that we are getting safer from being robbed because iPhones are hard to sell when stolen do we want to have yet another expensive Apple Gadget that people will covet and therefore provide a market for stolen ones.

Re:Scan here for a free 'whatever' sucker.

[Anubis IV]

My original claim is not false, nor was it unfounded (though it was unsubstantiated until I posted the links). And the links I provided were intended to show you how simple it would have been for you to find this info on your own (as you apparently just did), since I gave you the search results from Slashdot, the first relevant summary, and the article from the summary.

Moreover, I said it was a substantially more difficult process than the other guy made it out to be, and it is, as you've confirmed. That said, the process I linked you is by no means the only way to acquire a spoofed fingerprint. The original technique I saw demonstrated was less reliable but much simpler, and it's what I was referencing up above. Even so, while it may be simpler, it is by no means simple.

As for spoofed vs. hacked, you're quite right that "spoofed" is a much more precise word to use to refer to the type of attack. That said, spoofing is a type of hack, so trying to say it's a spoof and not a hack is an inaccurate distinction. Either way though, it really doesn't matter. I'm merely corroborating what someone else said regarding Touch ID being vulnerable to a form of attack. If you feel that we shouldn't have called it what we did, then I'm fine with only referring to it as spoofing, since it doesn't change what I intended to convey earlier. Plus, it should have been apparent what I was intending to convey, given that I described the mechanism for the attack.

P.S. You're misusing Betteridge's Law. It only works with headlines that contain a question. The one I linked you doesn't. Moreover, citing that law as an excuse to disregard something is a form of the appeal to authority logical fallacy.

purpose?

[Tom]

If I'd say I'm underwhelmed, it would be a big understatement.

Every major device announcement that Apple made in the recent years was always driven by one thing: It had a purpose. It provided something that was lacking in the world. Not a totally new invention in many cases, but a solution. Smartphones existed before the iPhone, but it is clear that the smartphone market history can be divided into "before the iPhone" and "after the iPhone" - just look at pictures of smartphones from those two periods.

iWatch? I know it was rumoured for two years or so, but in all that time I couldn't see which problem it solves and what meaning to life it has, and I still can't. It seems the Jobs spirit has left, because this is clearly a device that was made in response to the rumours about it, not because someone knew what he was doing.

Re:So, in short...

[MachineShedFred]

Yes, the mouse existed before Lisa / Mac. No, nobody outside of a lab in Palo Alto had actually used one, until Apple completely redesigned the thing to cost less than $100.

They introduced the mouse that everyone uses, as in one that is actually attainable by people.

Boiling the really big frog

[docwatson223]

Apple Watch with health informatics + Apple Pay leads the way to the Apple Chip Subdermal Implant. What could go wrong with a singular device that would have all of your credit, health, and identification information? An Apple Chip future... You could walk into a clothing store and a sales person walks up and asks if they can help you. You say "Yes, I am looking for a new suit" and they direct you to the aisle where the model suits are. You select the item, select a swatch of cloth that matches your preference and are handed a cup of coffee while the suit you want is made to your specifications. You also select a few items like cuff-links, shoes, a tie, and kerchief that all match the suit. 20 minutes later, a woman comes out from the rear of the store and hands you all the items and you thanks the sales person and you leave. Real-time tailoring. At no time do you see or engage a cashier or see the exchange of money. Your cash reserves and credit (if you wanted to apply for a line of credit for that company's store, there would have been a pro-forma online application via fingerprint or retinal scan) were all reviewed when you entered. Once you began the process for purchasing, you were added to their database and are sent an initial email asking if you'd like to be included in their email updates on their upcoming sales. If you had come in and browsed, you would have received the same invitation email and an electronic yes or no 'coupon' for a discount on your first purchase. Food shopping would become incredibly simple as well. You go and select the items you want/need and walk out with them. If you go to another store to buy an item, chances are that the store you do a majority of your shopping will try to stock it for you in order to get the rest of your business. The demand for services would finally become a matter of catering to the customer! Thieves won't stand a chance - theft would crash to almost zero and only the truly idiotic or desperate even try - because RFID tagging and IPv6 addressing has removed the ability of the thief to remove the item from the store and not pay for it or be tracked to their location. Most things can't 'fall off a truck' anymore because they are too easy to find. Assembly for large parts and items has become a breeze; IPv6 and RFID have allowed for all items for a specific customer to be listed as they are put together for assembly, QC/QA, and sales tracking. Insurance companies and manufacturers have the ability to identify parts failure all the way back to the manufacturer, the assembly line, and even the employee who did the work. IPv6 allowed for 2^54 IP address per person, so everything that a person owns can be cataloged, followed, and identified. RFID allows for seamless commerce. My paycheck is automatically deposited and credited to my account and purchases automatically adjusted via the chip . The military would get used to 'the wave' - swinging your hand over a reader to verify your identity. They would stop writing checks because there wasn't a need to on base. The chip would have all your medical info on it and the medics could just scan your hand (or your temple) and get the info they needed. Of course, if they were scanning your head, you'd lost your hand or they were ID'ing your corpse and you were in deep crap either way. Heck, the NCO club got to be a PITA sometimes because the 3 beer rule automatically flagged you but there were ways around that - the civvies you dated were still using real cash or their own IDs so they bought without restrictions. On the home front, we have had to suffer through the ubiquitous 'Chippie' on the Homeland Security ads and Saturday AM cartoons; "Chippie says "Security starts at Home, so get your ID Chip today!". [I'd say what an annoying bastard the little thing is but I don't want to get flagged when I use the Metro to work everyday; I see the poor sods who are 'randomly' pulled aside *every* morning on their way in and out of the station.] The NAHB Construction codes came into compliance with DHS Directives a few years

Re:No Dick Tracy calls?

[ganjadude]

im not an apple fan (read my post history to back that up haha) but i have to admit that the apple watch, while it has a stupid name (im happy to see happle get away from i-everything but replacing "i" with "apple" is pretty damn lazy) of all the smart watches shown to date, this is the only one that I really like. The moto360 looks nice, but still rushed. The apple watch looks fit and finished, it looks classy. I give apple credit here they made a beautiful watch.

I wont buy one because im sure its useless without an iphone and I have no interest in switching to an iphone just for a watch, but they hit a home run with that watch I think

Re:Legacy Support

[ganjadude]

we all joke I for one am happy that I can get damn near any app from 15 years ago to work on my windows machine (when I fire it up)

Re:left

[ganjadude]

does it really seem odd to you? Us left handed people make up a small section of the population. I cant even find a good full functional wireless gaming mouse made for us leftys. No one gives a damn about us. scissors, baseball mits, you name it, there is about 10% of the gear for us leftys as opposed to the right handed folk.

I think its time to be outraged and demand equal treatment of left handed people

Re:No Dick Tracy calls?

[MaryAnnEvans]

I'm not so sure. 1) You wouldn't be able to go edge to edge with the screen if you needed a camera in the front. 2) Aiming a camera at your face when it's strapped to the back of your wrist might not be the most comfortable or easy thing to do for the entire length of a video call. 3) The camera angle would be similar to the view you get of your dentist. Right up the nostrils. That's not anybody's good side.

Re:No Dick Tracy calls?

[MaryAnnEvans]

And then people can ask "Have you got the time on you, cock?"

Re:Scan here for a free 'whatever' sucker.

[MaryAnnEvans]

Even if you did, you can unauthorize the phone with the FindMyiPhone service. Then be up and running with another iPhone as soon as you get one, rather than waiting to get another CC through the post. This really does appear to be the most secure and user friendly payment system of all the options.

Re:So, in short...

[MaryAnnEvans]

Apple wasn't the first with an MP3 player either. But they were the first that was so good everyone wanted it. Apple doesn't tend oto race to be first with a feature. They wait till it can be done well.

They're not even trying anymore

[SinisterEVIL]

First phone with NFC - 4yrs ago First 720p screen -3yrs ago First fingerprint scanner - 3yrs ago First 8mp camera - 6yrs ago First 4.7in screen - 3yrs ago

Re:No Dick Tracy calls?

[Altus]

milanese loop already sounds like a sex act

Re:No Dick Tracy calls?

[Altus]

This isn't about a wrist computer and infact a wrist computer would likely not be very useful unless we get to the point where conversational voice command is a thing but honestly at that point it would be hard to justify putting it in a watch instead of in some other jewelry.

What this is, and what smart watches really need to be, at least at this point is an extension of your phone. The primary goal of the apple watch is clearly to provide you with the information your phone does but in a way that is subtle and discrete. The tapping on your wrist replaces a ring tone or a vibrating phone, you can see and even quickly respond to many types of notification. Siri is available but she doesn't speak back to you because that is loud and not very discrete. It provides you with turn by turn directions without taking out your phone and finally, it also tells you the time without digging your phone out as well. Discrete was clearly one of their primary design goals. Its not very fashionable to walk around a cocktail party staring at your phone but a nice looking watch that provides you with the data you need in a discrete way is perfect for almost any environment.

this was clearly their goal and it is probably the best possible use of a smart watch. Admittedly the price is pretty high for the value it gives and for some people the value is limited but for others it is quite valuable and I suspect the price will drop with future versions allowing for better adoption.

An entire legion of your worst non sequiturs

[Uberbah]

Do you rush into Tesla stories with the BREAKING NEWS that they didn't invent the car, and then pat yourself on the back for being so clever?

Re:An entire legion of your worst non sequiturs

[lophophore]

The ad hominem! I'm so proud of you.

Re:An entire legion of your worst non sequiturs

[Uberbah]

The trading of totally irrelevant statements for flopping! There was no ad hominem, just as there was no claim that Apple invented phones or MP3 players. Now, do you have an actual response to the actual topic, Apple being ahead or behind on raw technical features .

Re:Scan here for a free 'whatever' sucker.

[NulDevice]

Verify me.

Man I'm glad I'm not the only person who remembers that movie.

Re:Apple Icrap

[ebvwfbw]

Finally happened. The icrap. Works like a time machine, taking us back to 2012. What a dud.

Fire Cook, fire him now. Run him out of town on a rail.