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How the Rollout of 5G Will Change Everything
mrspoonsi writes The global race is on to develop 5G, the fifth generation of mobile network. While 5G will follow in the footsteps of 4G and 3G, this time scientists are more excited. They say 5G will be different — very different. "5G will be a dramatic overhaul and harmonization of the radio spectrum," says Prof Rahim Tafazolli who is the lead at the UK's multimillion-pound government-funded 5G Innovation Centre at the University of Surrey. To pave the way for 5G the ITU is comprehensively restructuring the parts of the radio network used to transmit data, while allowing pre-existing communications, including 4G and 3G, to continue functioning. 5G will also run faster, a lot faster. Prof Tafazolli now believes it is possible to run a wireless data connection at an astounding 800Gbps — that's 100 times faster than current 5G testing. A speed of 800Gbps would equate to downloading 33 HD films — in a single second. Samsung hopes to launch a temporary trial 5G network in time for 2018's Winter Olympic Games.
The summary reminded me of this prophetic gem: http://www.theonion.com/articl...
Some people die at 25 and aren't buried until 75. -Benjamin Franklin
No mention in the article of what changes are happening on the technical level. Is "5G" still LTE based and just the next highest revision? That was LTE was supposed to be, it's acronym means "Long Term Evolution". And the mention of keeping 3G/4G online alongside it seems counter-intuitive since the older tech (especially 2G/3G) seems like it's far less efficient with spectrum than even LTE is.
Considering we here in the states barely have nationwide 4G coverage and most of us are working with 2-10GB per month maybe it's a little early to get excited on being able to use that up in a matter of seconds rather than minutes.
Who cares when your artificially and ridiculously low data cap is exceeded in 5 minutes?
Not sure what plan you are on, but I would run through mine in about 2 milliseconds, then Verizon will gladly start charging me per Gb.
Scott Carr
800 Gbps = 100 GB/s = 4 Blu-ray movies per second.
Aren't carrieres already calling LTE and 4G+, etc 5G? Since it seems like 5G is such a dramatic improvement, should it have an entirely new name? A la Intel's move away from the x86 lines of processors?
If we go by when 4G finally arrives (still not completely deployed in the US)...
A speed of 800Gbps would equate to downloading 33 HD films â" in a single second
In other new, Sony, Universal, and the rest of the MAFIAA have sued Tafazolli, the University of Surrey, Samsung and the ITU for "contributory copyright infringment".
General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
Today TelecomX has announced that 5G Spcl has been rolled out to their customers, to compete PhoneY's Real 5G service.
A company spokemans said "While customers will need to upgrade their phones to take advantage of this, and it will still be slower than actual 5G in other countries, it will be modestly faster current 4G LTE and True4G services. And much like those services, once we've convinced everyone that it is 5G, eventually we'll sell an even better offering that's even closer to the actual 5G standard, but not yet there."
I'm sure the OP was meaning the true definition of 4G, which in the US was never deployed.
All those nice coverage maps show voice and doesnt include data. Rural areas have no native Internet providers, so often if they do have Internet its hauled in by microwave. I know this, the town my mother retired in shares brings in data so Verizon can vpn over it and provide data to the school and public libarary. It was great, verizon put in a tower and we had 4g and voice. But with people moving more into rual areas to retire, the bandwidth hasnt kept up with the usage, so now its down to voice only.
The thing that really pisses me off, is we have underground power and smart meters to all these rural homes, but no internet over power. Even slow speed would be better than the dial up they use now.
yea, you can totally download a single hd movie in that second before they cap your speed at 3g.
Yes, it's next-level vaporware.
Phht. Saturday Night Live called the "triple trac" razor back in 1975!
.
Prisencolinensinainciusol. Ol Rait!
So how long until Comcast starts sending out the lawyers to prevent this harmful technology?
Which is barely scraping by with 3G in most places. 4G is a bullshit fantasy and if you're a Sprint customer there's always sticking your head out the window and screaming if you want to actually reach someone with a bandwidth higher than smoke signals.
A speed of 800Gbps would equate to downloading 33 HD films â" in a single second. Samsung hopes to launch a temporary trial 5G network in time for 2018's Winter Olympic Games
I will be retired at that time, sadly! That means my activities will be of no consequence at all. That's not good. Can't they do it sooner?
I kind of got the impression most things being called 4G weren't even properly that.
So now we'll have a rollout of something called 5G which isn't?
Know what I expect? We won't see faster, we won't suddenly see a lot of additional bandwidth. For promotional purposes it's fast and awesome ... and for practical purposes the carriers will scale it back because they're incapable of selling you what they will claim it to be.
I simply don't believe the carriers will be able to deploy what this thing could be theoretically. All they'll do it repackage the same shitty service and charge extra for it, while crying poor about how they can't keep up with the bandwidth demands.
Because telcos are lying, greedy bastards who put more effort into marketing than quality of their product.
They've been telling us how awesome their network speeds are for over a decade. And they've been unwilling to live up to that the entire time.
Case in point: Unlimited data plans, which are so much marketing bullshit it's not funny.
Lost at C:>. Found at C.
We already see operators limiting to 1GB / month in 4G, I do not hope them to act differently in 5G. So it will be fast the first few seconds of the month...
I can't speak for anyone else here, but I certainly can't watch even one HD movie on my phone, with the 4 GB plan for which I'm grossly overcharged by Verizon. There's absolutely no incentive in the US for carriers to change their tune played to their captive audience. Great, with 5G I can get shit service that much faster.
I'll just wait for 6G. Or maybe 7G.
I really don't need to talk any faster.
"I believe in Karma. That means I can do bad things to people all day long and I assume they deserve it." : Dogbert
Why? Would you suddenly be doing something you didn't do previously? It's like saying a Porsche is bad compared to a Model T because it can go fast enough to get speeding tickets.
We'll be able to blow through our monthly data caps in 1 minute!
This.
Who cares?
I had unlimited 3G. It was useful. Now I have blazing fast 4G with a 1GB plan, with $10 per GB overage. It's useless for anything beyond reading Slashdot in the bathroom.
5G will be equally useless. As will 6G. And 7G. I don't need speed on a smartphone. I need good coverage and no transfer cap.
800bps (call it 1600Ghz, using Shannon) is in the Far Infrared to (barely) mid infrared spectrum, and that's just base-band signaling (from a point-like source.) Doing any kind of modulation (to allow multiple channels for multiple simultaneous transmissions) is going to put that more firmly in the mid-infrared spectrum where things like the atmosphere appears to be opaque. I realize that this is a mass-media article, and depends on "... and then magic will happen" sort of science, but I don't see how this works (much less scales) without excessive speculation using ancient undergraduate digital communications classes too far.
But, to speculate WITH ancient undergraduate digital communications classes, I would think of things like this:
"A speed of 800Gbps would equate to downloading 33 HD films — in a single second."
At Verizon's cost of 15 dollars per 1 GB (when you go over your data plan), 5G could then theoretically cost you 1500 dollars per second.
The Internet King? I wonder if he could provide faster nudity.
It doesn't need to work in your condo. You should be on WiFi when at home. With TMobile, you don't even need a signal at all at home because calls go over WiFi to your landline Internet connection. The cell connection only needs to work on the road.
And we will be able to hit data caps in fractions of a second!! The carriers are going to love the overage charges.
Ericsson predict that 5G's latency will be around one millisecond - unperceivable to a human and about 50 times faster than 4G.
Love to see how that's going to work when your destination is on the other side of the planet. The speed of light is only 300,000 km/s or 300 km/millisecond.
It's from the very first episode of SNL.
http://snltranscripts.jt.org/7...
Better known as 318230.
And now true 4G will be called 5G. And the cycle repeats.
I still have no cell phone coverage at my house...I live in New York State...can I at least get coverage at my house...
neorush
The last I read (years ago) 4G was a broken standard. This is part of the reason why some carriers now call their service "4G LTE", and it was following in the steps of the 3G standard being broken by the carriers late in it's life cycle.
If the term "4G" essentially means nothing now, why will "5G" be any different?
A speed of 800Gbps would equate to downloading 33 HD films â" in a single second.
I've never seen a $10,000 phone bill.
Separately but related, how much will the existing cell providers need to invest to upgrade their systems to 5G?
Also separately but related, will this make wired internet and cable (copper or fiber) obsolete?
Well, many video players are auto resolution tuning, so if they detect you have the bandwidth, they'll up the resolution.
If Netflix starts streaming in 4K, and gral was used to 480p, that's a bit of a difference in data.
There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
LTE is definitely a generation ahead of 3G. The latency is massively different; 4G feels very different from 3G in the same way that ethernet-over-fibre feels different from VDSL. 4G can actually feel like an OK DSL line. 5G with 1ms latency should be able to compete favourably with low-speed fibre.
(Latency is also why it is laughable that UK providers pretend that they are selling fibre optic broadband. It is a sign of the missing consumer protection laws in the UK.)
Finally! A year of moderation! Ready for 2019?
According to theoriginal ITU position to be truly called 4G one need to be able to do at least 1 Gbps peak rate downlink. In order to comply with this requirement LTE release 10 added a new category, Cat 8, doing actually close to 3 Gbps. On paper: nobody implemented it yet --- and it'll be a while before anyone does (if ever: it takes 8x8 MIMO and 5 aggregated 20 MHz LTE channels to reach 3 Gbps).
I'm a telecom professional, and I'm tired about all those "true 4G" statements, and on what is or not 4G. I find the ITU 4G definition ridiculous: a long time ago the world of telecom manufacturers was made of cautious engineering companies. Then very aggressive new entrants came and made outrageous claims [1], and older companies went with the charade not to be seen as lagards. That's basically why we got this very bad joke of "official 4G is 1 Gbps". I guess anyone looking around should see the slight disconnect with reality there? As a bonus joke, new categories were added later on: Cat9 peaks at 300 Mbps, go figure...
For what it's worth, in my opinion the true difference that warrants using a new generation number is the move to OFDMA. 1G was analog, 2G was digital narrow band, 3G is wideband CDMA, 4G is wideband OFDMA. This makes sense to me, as a telecom engineer. The ITU BS I'd rather forgot all about it, it's just too embarrassing.
As for 5G there are interesting things on-going, but it's very early in the game. For now it's only people wanting attention to get funding (like TFA) or cheap PR. Don't feed the PR spinners please. The high-frequency spectrum with many very small antennas and cheap RF (to compensate for the number, 64-256...) is interesting but there is a long road to practical products.
[1] There is a joke on this, and let's protect the culprit: how do you tell the difference between an Ericsson engineer and a Xxx one? The E/// engineer couldn't tell a lie if you put a gun to his head. The Xxxx engineer couldn't tell the truth. I work for neither E/// nor Xxxx BTW.
How about the ability to make a reliable phone call first?
If you'd just stop moving that mobile phone, it would work fine.
"File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
Keeping the blades dry is the key to long life. Microrust of the edge is what dulls them. A humid bathroom is not a good environment for blades. http://www.wikihow.com/Make-a-...
"You should be on WiFi when at home"
unfortunately when usig the wifi on my S3 the battery drains in 4 hours so i have to keep it plugged in, kind of like a land line =|
I kind of got the impression most things being called 4G weren't even properly that.
The carriers tried to be honest about Long Term Evolution by marketing it as "4G Lite", but somehow the 'i' got dropped along the way.
Digital comms is soulless and overrated anyway. It doesn't have the warmth, vibrancy or resonance of analogue.
That's because carriers have for years been using low-bitrate voice codecs for calls headed to or from the public switched telephone network. When voices are compressed too small, they start to sound robotic like the "Another visitor" guy from the game Impossible Mission. If you use a wideband VoIP app like Skype, there won't be quite as much compression. This gives you back quite a bit of the vibrancy that you had with land lines and lost since GSM.
I'm with Rogers (Canada) and I'm usually on their LTE network (Rogers LTE). As per the wiki, the theoretical speed is 150Mbit/s, but similar to what the article notes, when I run speed test I typically get ~14Mbit/s depending on the time of day.
I'm not that excited about any "new generation" 4G or whatever, as this is more than fast enough for my daily needs when I'm not on WiFi.
Are you trying to imply that a contention ratio of 2,592,000:1 is not fair?
Waterfox - a Firefox fork with legacy extension support, security updates and better privacy by default.
By the time the technology is productized and delivered to the consumer in the US it's going to be some bastardized architecture that delivers "just good enough" service. Telecom is not in the business of delivering more value for less money, so expect the added benefits you get to be proportional to the additional amount consumers will be paying.
except perhaps it will push down data-plan costs a little. But right now, people are capped by their data plans so having all those gigabits is basically worthless.
-Matt
Curiously, 3GPP are not keeping up by upgrading their name to 4GPP, 5GPP, and so forth...
Long term sketches provide for using IETF protocols, that is the Internet, for example SIP, Multipath TCP. Those seem to be kept "secret" for some reasons by telecoms and legal rules alike. T-Mobile is not available everywhere. In some countries, for example, it is forbidden to use fixed lines to make phone calls through VPNs. So-called SIP phones never made it to mass market. VOIP sellers tend to disable interoperability, IME.
...as for all the DSP the 5G would need (constant beam forming and 2GHz BW) you'd need one hell of a battery. The good thing is that @62GHz band you'd always have to be within few meters of a power plug as RF does not propagate far (water absorption).
"5G will be a dramatic overhaul and harmonisation of the radio spectrum," - really? How?
4wdloop
Why would you want to watch cats fuck?
Time to offend someone
quick someone dig up the "it will change everything" articles about 4G
Just another second banana
Maybe that's the amount of an HD film that someone with the attention span of a typical BBC reporter can watch? Seriously, it seems like the quality of BBC news reporting has been slipping for years. I suspect their long term plan is to steal readers from the Daily Mail.
At least the BBC still makes some decent programs.
the roaming charges you could rack up!
This time the telecoms have a new tool to help them upgrade their networks...
Kickstarter!!!!!
This is correct. Essentially we have the equivalent of hydraulic despotism going on. These companies have created a choke point in a resource critical to 21st century life, and artificially limited it to make money off the populace.
I for one, welcome our Data Despot Overlords.
HA! I just wasted some of your bandwidth with a frivolous sig!
From Wikipedia:
Terahertz radiation occupies a middle ground between microwaves and infrared light waves, and technology for generating and manipulating it is in its infancy, and is the subject of research. This lack of technology is called the terahertz gap. It represents the region in the electromagnetic spectrum that the frequency of electromagnetic radiation becomes too high to be measured by digitally counting cycles using electronic counters, and must be measured by the proxy properties of wavelength and energy. Similarly, in this frequency range the generation and modulation of coherent electromagnetic signals ceases to be possible by the conventional electronic devices used to generate radio waves and microwaves, and requires new devices and techniques.
Why do we need 800Gbps on a cellphone? Or even 100Gbps?
So I can download an app in 560 microseconds? I do not see the point. What possible use case is there for that much bandwidth, even if data caps went away (yeah right)..There is only so much you can do with a mobile device.
Does it matter if I download an HD movie in 30mS instead of 400mS? Or even if I download a 4k movie in a fraction of a second, its still kinda pointless.
Now I am fully aware that 640k is actually not enough memory for anybody, but come on guys, what sort of need would we really have for 800Gbps on a cellphone or tablet? There reaches a point where the returns diminish beyond human perception.
Why would you want to watch cats fuck?
Working on certification for professional cat breeding?
He effected a bored affect.
For what it's worth, in my opinion the true difference that warrants using a new generation number is the move to OFDMA.
OFDMA = "Oh Fuck, Da Masses are Angry, better roll out a new generation with a few more bps, a new 'Extra-Unlimited' data plan, and lower their caps."
Look where all this talking got us, baby.
How fast will transfer rates be when you only have one or two bars' worth of signal? If they're using a higher modulation bandwidth to get that higher data rate that's one thing; but if they're stuffing more data into the same occupied bandwidth then the Bit Error Rate could start climbing really fast once the signal level starts to drop.
'The Economy' is a giant Ponzi scheme whose most pitiable suckers are the youngest among us and the yet-unborn.
Your phone will have battery life of 18 seconds and will have a surface temperature of 245C.
The alternative to limited government is unlimited government.
It doesn't matter how many "Generations" you have as long as data caps exist.
As a telecom professional, I'd love to hear your opinion on http://www.artemis.com/ and their "pCell" technology. Can't tell if they're blowing a bunch of smoke up our asses or not.
... metropolitan coverage of the technologies that are supposed to be available right now.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
Exactly! I still see "GPRS" in a lot of places, in an urban area. How about they fix their 3G first, and only then finish the 4G deployment? And postpone 5G for 20 years or so...
I apologize for the lack of a signature.
So we will see 800 Gbps and have quotas of 1Gb/month then....
Where I live the quotas are going down. You have to pay more to get less data now than 2 years ago. 4G means lower quota than 3G.
If this continues we will have tremendous bandwith in 5G but no possibility to use it...
So what, you still have a data cap, REAL progress is NO data caps.
"If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
The only difference will apparently be that it will be useless faster.... you will simply use your low quota faster. And I am sure they will lower it even more on 5G because its so new an special....
I can understand how that might be traumatic for hamsters.
Personally I'm now trying to resist the temptation to add 'fucking cats' to my Youtube search history :(
I just moved my family to the Virgin "pick your plan" - 3 phones sharing a plan for about $30 total per month (with 250 minutes, limited text and data, but since everyone mostly uses wireless anyway...).
At the current typical rates of about $10/gb, the telecoms will be able to rake in huge profits.... or not.
Yes, I'm sure all 2 billion mobile users will do this. Or be able to do this.
There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
No idea if this has any relation to the GP's issue, but my Galaxy Nexus would drain the battery very quickly when Wi-Fi was enabled. It ended up being caused by Location Services. I disabled 'Use nearby WiFi to improve location accuracy' and my battery life doubled.
I'm sure there was some other actual root cause to the issue, but I got my desired result (acceptable battery life), so I didn't look into it any further.
Five blades on a razor is total hype and a waste of money. You need only one very good blade. Grow up and shave like a real man! Buy a good razor and learn how to use it.
I shave with an old-fashioned double-edge razor. Not an old razor - I bought it a couple of years ago. It's a Merkur 39D Slant. Yeah, it cost about 50 bucks, but it will be around to hand down to my great grandson. I also bought 100 of the best blades made for about 10 bucks.
Add a badger brush and a good quality shaving soap like Proraso or Haslinger, and you're set for a long, long time of baby butt smooth shaves.
Dude, lay off the soy milk. Way too many feelings in your post
>80 column hard wrapped e-mail is not a sign of intelligent
>life
kitty porn of course
Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
Could we include tower authentication (to prevent cell tower spoofing), end to end encryption (to prevent call interception), and end the practice of pinging the tower (to stop phone tracking) for this new version? If we need to build new hardware anyway we may as well fix the major bugs.
I don't see how it's so hard. If Netflix's app for your mobile platform has no bandwidth limit, request the feature from Netflix. If Netflix refuses to provide said feature, cancel your Netflix subscription.
Analog NTSC was SDTV. It was 480i on paper, but interlaced signals have to be blurred a bit vertically in order to reduce field-to-field flicker, so in practice the usable detail of its 480 lines was closer to 320p to 360p. In addition, 16:9 content has to be padded on the top and bottom with black bars to fill 360 of the 480 picture lines, so in a way it was closer to 240p to 270p when displaying 16:9. (God help you if the picture is in 2.39:1 CinemaScope.) Finally, the signal was split into luma (0-3 MHz) and chroma (3-4.2 MHz), and by Nyquist's theorem combined with the 52.148 microsecond width of each NTSC scanline, the luma was good for about 3 * 52 * 2 = 312 pixels across. Enjoy your 320x240.
EDTV sends all scanlines in every frame, so you don't waste lines on flicker reduction. It's also more likely to be anamorphic, so you get full 480 lines even with 16:9 video, and even scope keeps 360 lines. Finally, 480p is always sent over a component connection (analog YPbPr, analog RGB, or digital RGB over DVI/HDMI), not composite, so there's no 3 MHz limit on luma.
My point is that LD/SD, ED, HD, full HD, and ultra HD are distinct targets.
WiFi on my phone isn't worth the trouble is leaving it on, signing in to the hotspots, password for the personal WiFi at work, and the lame public networks overwhelmed with everyone else.
I leave it off, keep my T-Mobile unlimited for real 4g, and let the wankers fight over '\free' WiFi.
deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
And that's why my bathroom has no water pipes to it....and they said I was crazy to do it.
Sleep your way to a whiter smile...date a dentist!
I can't tell either ;) The principle is an extension of an existing trend: in dense areas, you need tight synchronization among cells to reduce interference and improve the system capacity and quality of service. Existing evolutions of LTE already specified but not yet deployed in the field include things like joint scheduling / cooperative beam forming among cells for example. The pCell idea is pushing the idea to the extreme: it's an integrated cooperative system, where each node is a set of antennas and a device is not associated to a node but cooperatively handled by several. Now there is limit in this approach: in practice you need a centralized scheduler ("Cloud RAN" in marketing speeches) and very low latency between it and the nodes, and this limits practical deployments to dense areas. So it's not a universal solution, but it has potential for where congestion is in practice. Another thing is that although there's a lot of work and momentum on this idea, it's still rather young and it seems not so easy to make even the less radical LTE variants work as well as planned in practice. As often, devil is in the details. But I can't comment much more there: telecoms is big and I'm not involved in this area.
And every other video provider around the world. And every OS. And make sure it works in every OS version.
I really don't think you get the scope of what you're saying.
There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
Of this giant bursts of speed with unlimited internets if you are going to get jacked up rates and constant throttling? I realize that innovation must slog forward, but 4G hasn't even been around for that long and prices haven't really settled as of yet. Now 5G and frankly more uncertainty.
There is a joke on this, and let's protect the culprit: how do you tell the difference between an Ericsson engineer and a Xxx one? The E/// engineer couldn't tell a lie if you put a gun to his head. The Xxxx engineer couldn't tell the truth.
As a former Ericsson telecoms engineer you don't know how right you are! It wasn't even only the truth, it was often the whole truth whether the customer wanted it or not, every time they asked! :-)
And there's such a thing as too much honesty. I remember our local CEO who used to say that "Well, you know, by listening to you lot you'd think that we couldn't find our behinds using a map and both hands, but we actually have more l a 50% market share, and providers are throwing out other manufacturers equipment for ours, so we have to be doing something right at least. It can't be all crap" :-)
P.S. Your "generations" explanation of {2,3,4}G is right on. Not that marketing crap we got today.
Stefan Axelsson
*puke* Ericsson has to be one of the most incompetent, arrogant and politically motivated core network vendors I have to deal with on a daily basis. Their people don't know their own products. Their PLM is therefore overloaded and SLAs are frequently violated, and their executives are the first to march in and point the finger at the customer in an attempt at damage control. Their products are overrated too.. Mostly cobbled together open source solutions sold for top dollar with a bizzare O&M abstraction layer which makes it harder than just managing to open source as it was intended to be. Ericsson's customer is wrong approach and their refusal to compete with other vendors on quality and cost has them at the very bottom of the list from my personal experience at least.
Unless you are streaming video, it is entirely moot anyway. So it will be good for Netflix and whatever competitors come out between now and then. The standard storage on a Smartphone is 16GB. I have a fairly large cap at 6GB/s. However even blowing through my cap, I will completely fill my phone pretty quickly. I have a Samsung with a 64GB chip it in, but even then, that will fill fairly quickly. For most people who get a smartphone, your getting 16GB, lets say in the "future" the standard is FINALLY increased to 32GB... Still very small compared to transmission speed.
So unless phone makers start putting larger memory into phones, or allowing chip add ins, or decoupling the price of the phone from the tiny inexpensive memory inside (LOL Apple yeah right!), it is largely a very moot exercise. At best, caps may increase slowly, and you will be able to stream higher resolution video content through your phone...
However coverage is another big issue, as if you can only use it in large urban centers, facing west, then the moon and Jupiter align, on a Tuesday, it isn't really "mobile" anyway. Getting LTE sometimes now seems like a small victory at times.