Windows 10 Fall Update Uninstalls Desktop Software Without Informing Users (ghacks.net)

ourlovecanlastforeve sends this report from Martin Brinkmann of gHacks: Microsoft's Windows 10 operating system may uninstall programs — desktop programs that is — from the computer after installation of the big Fall update that the company released earlier this month. I noticed the issue on one PC that I upgraded to Windows 10 Version 1511 but not on other machines. The affected PC had Speccy, a hardware information program, installed and Windows 10 notified me after the upgrade that the software had been removed from the system because of incompatibilities. There was no indication beforehand that something like this would happen, and what made this rather puzzling was the fact that a newly downloaded copy of Speccy would install and run fine on the upgraded system. An IT Director I know had this happen with ESET antivirus as well, on multiple computers. He says fixes have been rolled out for both TH2 and the antivirus software to prevent this from happening. Other reports mention CPU-Z, AMD's Catalyst Control Center, and CPUID as software that's being automatically uninstalled.

Comments

Windows 7

[Pentium100]

So, I guess Windows 7 will be the last Windows OS that I use. Hopefully by the time new games stop supporting it, Linux will have the support of new games.

Re:Windows 7

[hcs_$reboot]

Windows 7 is the next Windows OS to be used.

Re:Windows 7

[Anonymous Coward]

So, I guess Windows 7 will be the last Windows OS that I use. Hopefully by the time new games stop supporting it, Linux will have the support of new games.

Same has been said by many a people about Vista, Windows 7, Windows 8 and Windows 8.1.

Truth is at the end of the day when MS have a small or any screwup the open-source crowd are so divided among themselves that they can never seize the opportunity.

Re:Windows 7

[cfalcon]

Vista had bloaty problems, but it was just a good reason to hold onto XP for a bit longer. Seven is a very good OS- apparently the last one. Eight and Eight-one have some mild spyware problems, but nothing intractable- mostly it's just their anti-user UI arrogance that got them a bad reception. Up until right near the end when Microsoft added all the spyware and really baked it in hard, everyone was expecting to go to Windows 10.

But Windows 10 is the worst thing ever, so nope.

Re:Windows 7

[Anonymous Coward]

Vista had bloaty problems, but it was just a good reason to hold onto XP for a bit longer. Seven is a very good OS- apparently the last one. Eight and Eight-one have some mild spyware problems, but nothing intractable- mostly it's just their anti-user UI arrogance that got them a bad reception. Up until right near the end when Microsoft added all the spyware and really baked it in hard, everyone was expecting to go to Windows 10.

But Windows 10 is the worst thing ever, so nope.

Would that be the mild spyware that MS back ported to 7 so every one can take part in the game? Vista for all its faults, looking at you douchy ass 'super prefetch' that hammers the hard drive constantly, set the scene and technological platform for Windows 7 and arguably because of Vistas poor reception Win 7 by comparison looks better.

Either way we all know the best operating system MS made was Windows 2000. Going from 9x/ME was like riding a bike with only one wheel that was damaged to riding a bike with two squeaky wheels.

Re:Windows 7

[drolli]

Maybe. Unless MS gets to reason and windows 11 gets the next windows for coroporations. I am 100% sure that 8 and 10 will be skipped in the upgrade cycle of big corporations. Most skipped vista, and 8 and 10 have a very short period between.

So when the chances are that MS will produce something which works as well for word, excel and PPT and windows XP and Windows 7 did.

Re:Windows 7

[execthis]

I wonder if ReactOS will ever go anywhere. Its been around for a really long time now but unfortunately still in alpha.

Re: Windows 7

[Anonymous Coward]

Microsoft have already stated that Windows 10 is last incarnation of the OS. There won't be another big OS launch, just minor changes over time.

Re: Windows 7

[Anonymous Brave Guy]

So they said, but if their share price is down 40% two years after Windows 10 launched and Nadella has been replaced, they might just state something else.

Re:Windows 7

[DrXym]

Linux have the support of a handful of new games (as a side effect of SteamOS being a Linux derivative), many of which will be extremely badly tested.

Re: Windows 7

[jawtheshark]

and Nadella has been replaced

Any sources for this? According to Wikipedia, he still is the current CEO of Microsoft.

Re:Windows 7

[Maxo-Texas]

Having been with windows since win 3.11 (and the amiga os before that), I can honestly say this time is different.

Partially it's the stronger drive to a subscription model but mostly it's the spyware aspects of the new O/S.

A tablet or phone can probably do the same shit and get away with it but the PC is a PC. You are supposed to own it- it's not supposed to own you, spy on you, force installation of programs, block installation of programs and generally be owned by the company even tho you paid for it.

I could see dividing between a "serious" PC based on linux (which I've noodled with for the last six years) with a generic software stack that runs on multiple O/S. (Blender, GIMP, Libreoffice, Minecraft, etc.) and then a game machine which I don't use seriously, don't use for financial stuff, etc. But, as I play more boom beach (etc.) my motivation to have a PC for gaming has been declining. I'm more likely to use an inexpensive console for gaming.

8.0 was merely bad. Windows 10.0 is the devil.

Re: Windows 7

[jawtheshark]

Sorry, reading comprehension fail on my part: IF the share is down 40% in the future (Windows hasn't been out for two years), THEN Nadella will be replaced.

Re: Windows 7

[jawtheshark]

Guilty as charged.

Re:Windows 7

[drinkypoo]

Up until right near the end when Microsoft added all the spyware and really baked it in hard, everyone was expecting to go to Windows 10.

Would that be the mild spyware that MS back ported to 7 so every one can take part in the game?

No, that would be the mouse, keylogger, and debugger, which really constitute hardcore spyware. You're right, though; they did backport these features to Windows 7. The critical difference, however, which in fact makes you wrong, is that you can simply refuse the updates to Win7. Since Microsoft isn't doing any more SPs for Win7, that situation should persist.

Vista for all its faults, looking at you douchy ass 'super prefetch' that hammers the hard drive constantly, set the scene and technological platform for Windows 7 and arguably because of Vistas poor reception Win 7 by comparison looks better.

Windows 7 flies on systems that Vista makes unusable. Win7 is provably better than Vista.

Re: Windows 7

[squiggleslash]

You're looking at a Wikipedia page dated today. You need to look at the Wikipedia for two years from the release of Windows 10, in the hypothetical universe where he resigned ;-) (In other words, you misread the GP!)

Re:Windows 7

[dywolf]

Vista didn't suck, at least not as bad as Me, and was a worthwhile upgrade if buggy with drivers and such. but definitely the jump from Vista to 7 was akin to that from 95/98 to 2000/XP, as 7 refined and perfected what Vista started the same way 2000/XP perfected what 95/98 started. likewise, 8 pretty much sucks, and 10 is blah. in fact, 10 is currently more akin to Vista than anything else, so w/e comes next after 10 will likely be the next XP (jinx).

so for now, 7 is the new XP, and will likely remain so for sometime, much as Microsoft wishes it weren't so, as we wait for 11.

Re: Windows 7

[Anonymous Coward]

2000 refined the NT 3.51/4.0 workstation line, not 95/98. Then XP brought some of the "desktop" from ME to the line.

The Windows 3/95/98 line was terminated with the failure of ME and was never refined by anything.

Re:Windows 7

[Anonymous Coward]

even without the gross violations of user privacy and attempts to entirely take over a user's computer.. windows 10 is still the biggest piece of shit to ever come out of redmond.. and we're talking about the company that released bob into the wild.... it's *that fucking bad*

**everyone** i know that has clicked that fucking windows 10 upgrade offer (without talking to me first, anyway.. because if they had, i would have told them that windows 10 was the devil's spawn) has had problems upgrading.. and most of them ended up with broken computers, requiring anything from a revert back to previous version of windows (if they were lucky enough to still get to the desktop to execute that -- why the fuck you have to be able to boot up successfully first to do that, i have no fucking idea.. it reboots in order to do the revert anyway, so put it in the repair menu options for fuck's sake) to a complete wipe of the drive and reinstall of that old windows... and in a couple cases, windows 10 even ate some of their documents... every new-in-the-box pc i've seen with windows 10 preinstalled has had something fucked up straight from the factory, too... whether it be a fucked up windows update, messed up drivers, broken recovery media maker or other oem software... and that's on top of the stuff that's broken as fuck but 'works as intended' from microsoft's pov.

dear microsoft. throw the whole fucking thing in the trash and start over --- at windows 7sp1, and extend 7's eol date another 5 years while you're at it.

Re:Windows 7

[rajafarian]

I, too, was a Windows user since 3.11 WFW but mostly for games since I discovered and used OS/2 for my non-gaming computing (and later Linux). I liked Windows XP because my Gravis Exterminator force feedback worked but I upgraded to Windows 7 because Battlefield 3 and DX9. But now I am Windows-free! I talked about ditching Windows since way back in the day but this time is different and I said, "No thanks." Yeah!!!!!!

Re:Windows 7

[Dracolytch]

There are HUNDREDS of good games out for Linux. Many of the games I have on Steam I can also run on my Linux laptop. It's worth investigating. And hey, if you have a Windows game that you MUST play, you can run it on a VM in many cases.

~D

Re:Windows 7

[JoeMerchant]

My wife's Windows 7 laptop (purchased 4 years ago, never auto-updated) is presently offering to upgrade itself to Windows 10.

Even if you don't "upgrade 7 to 10," they'll be "patching" 7 until it has got all the worst aspects of 10 in it. Just like they made "XP" so secure that it no longer runs on many of the platforms it was originally sold on.

Re:Windows 7

[myowntrueself]

Windows 7 *is* provably better than Vista.

But its like being beaten with a metal pipe and then being beaten with a leather belt. The belt sure feels better. And its provably better too!

Re:Windows 7

[DigitalSorceress]

Windows XP is now a year and a half past its "completely out of support even for extended support for really big customers who paid us extra for it" ... and yet I still regularly run into customers (I do Developer Support for an SDK) who are still stuck using Windows XP because their organization is too cheap to upgrade and/or they feel that XP still works for them.

For many, XP is very much "ain't broke, don't fix it" though from a security standpoint - YES, YES IT IS BROKE - VERY BROKE - DO NOT WANT.

Re: Windows 7

[unixisc]

I thought it had already been announced that there would be no 11, and that they'd probably move to a subscription model at some point.

Re:Windows 7

[myrdos2]

It used to be that dual-booting Windows and Linux wasn't much hassle, so I kept Windows around for the odd time I wanted to play a game. But when I upgraded to Windows 10 it wiped out the Linux bootloader. So I grumbled a bit and figured that's par for the course, formatted the hard drive, installed Windows 10 first and Linux second. And that was fine for about a week until I decided I wanted to play a Windows game... after shutting Windows down, my boot loader is toast. Again. I can't even get to the little GRUB repair prompt this time.

It's just not worth it for me anymore, especially now that Steam is on Linux. Plus, I figure it will be good to get out before Microsoft's "subscription-based" model kicks in for Windows 10.

Farewell Windows. You were an awesome gaming platform for 15 years.

Re:Windows 7

[Immerman]

Really? I've avoided it myself, and recommended against it, but I know lots of people who have upgraded, and the worst problem I've heard of is a wifi adapter whose drivers got dropped, and even that just took manually telling Windows to search the hard drive for a driver.

Re:Windows 7

[jedidiah]

...or just get a cheap Steam Box for them. [snort]

One of the SteamBox vendors was offering a really nice sale yesterday. Entry level gaming box with an nv750 for $300.

Re:Windows 7

[iampiti]

I've been following the project for a few years and yes, the progress is slow. They do have a team of passionate developers but they're few and not everyone has the will of learning enough of the Windows internals to develop a clone of it.
I'd like them to suceed but they need many more people.
That being said, it does go forward. For example, you can now start Steam and I've been able to make a couple of simple indie games work.

Re:Windows 7

[iampiti]

I'm planning to go exactly this route when Windows 7 is no longer viable (newer hardware and software will stop working on it): Use Linux for everything except for Windows games for which I'll have a Windows partition that will be used exclusively as a games console. Steam Big Picture UI will make it easy.

Re: Windows 7

[ZiakII]

Except in the past 6 months their stock has gone up almost 25%....

Re:Windows 7

[Noah Haders]

i recommend you try ps4OS, already has an installed base of 30 million and there are plenty of games available!

Re: Windows 7

[Anonymous Brave Guy]

Sure, but in the last six months they enjoyed the results of an extremely aggressive marketing campaign promoting their first new OS in a couple of years and a vision for locking in customers using it. The reality will be clearer after the early adopter wave has died down and in particular after a year when any final surge of interest in the free upgrade has passed. If most people are running on Windows 10 at that point, they'll be doing well. If businesses are still showing little interest and the majority of home users are still on older versions, Nadella is going to have some tough questions to answer, because MS can ill afford another Vista/Win8 fiasco.

Re:Windows 7

[macs4all]

even without the gross violations of user privacy and attempts to entirely take over a user's computer.. windows 10 is still the biggest piece of shit to ever come out of redmond.. and we're talking about the company that released bob into the wild.... it's *that fucking bad*

Wow! And I thought that the OS X El Capitan Upgrade was bad! But at least they FIXED most of their issues within a month or so. (And they never DID have all that W10 Spyware crap)

Honestly not trolling here; but I hope that my work W7 laptop continues to run until the sun goes out.

Re:Windows 7

[kimvette]

http://www.supergrubdisk.org/

Re:Windows 7

[PRMan]

Windows is hibernating. Your bootloader is still there, but you won't see it until you turn off fast startup or do a restart.

Re: Windows 7

[Anonymous Brave Guy]

MS share price is up and Windows 10 has largely gotten positive reception and very very rapid user uptake.

You would expect their share price to be way up this soon after the launch of their biggest project in several years. If it wasn't, heads would already have been looking loosely attached around the boardroom table.

As for positive reception... from whom? The trade press did their usual thing of waxing lyrical about the few headlines from the press release, while in many cases failing to mention the privacy or security implications at all. However, actual user studies show relatively little interest in digital assistants like Cortana. Edge is so insignificant in the analytics for every site I deal with that we're not even bothering to test with it. I literally don't know anyone, either socially or through work, who actually runs Windows 10 on anything, though I know a few people who have been actively avoiding it.

And as for "very, very rapid" user update, I don't know what figures you've seen, but the only data I saw the first few days after the Win10 launch that was confirmed by MS sources suggested rather mediocre adoption rates considering that they were literally preinstalling it on Win 7/8 machines and had been trying to nag/trick users into activating the free update for some time by then. In any case, as I've mentioned elsewhere, I think the real test will be where they stand 1-2 years after it launched, after the initial hype wave has faded, all the free updates are used up, and businesses have had time to consider their options.

Re:Windows 7

[macs4all]

Just like every other OS is heading or is already there? Always connected to the internet and always listening and watching what you are doing.

Speak for yourself. OS X doesn't do that crap. And the little that it does do they tell you about and is easily disabled.

And for those that would complain that OS X's built-in firewall (pf, which has now completely replaced ipfw) doesn't block OUTGOING traffic, apparently it can; but Apple has not made that available in the GUI. So, here's a nearly-free ($10) GUI manager for Apple's Firewall, that DOES support Outgoing controls, and is fully compatible with El Capitan. Full disclosure: I haven't tried this yet; but I think I will. BTW, if you're well-versed in the OS X Command-Line, you can do all this for free. But remember, you will likely have to defeat SIP on OS X 10.10 and above to write to /etc.

But all this stands in stark contrast to Windows 10, Spyware Edition, that produces a veritable flood of information back to the mothership, and which is relatively difficult to defeat, and even harder to keep defeated.

Re: Windows 7

[Maxo-Texas]

Try reading it again when you've had more sleep.

It's giving a case where things might change over the next two years.

Happy Holidays!

Re:Windows 7

[ourlovecanlastforeve]

Seeing as how they're still trying to faithfully recreate Windows 95 in open source form, I'm gonna say... nah.

Re:Windows 7

[LVSlushdat]

Wait till MS gets desparate to get all their little telemetry geegaws on Windows 7 and they resort to making the "updates" show up as "security" rather than "recommended"... The only way you'll be able to avoid them is to completely disable WU.. and THAT is really not a good idea.. The poor folks who are on Windows 10 home are sooooo screwed.... I'm soo glad I dumped the Windows ecosystem when I retired from computer support and moved all my systems to Linux back in 2010...

Re: Windows 7

[Anonymous Brave Guy]

I'm not sure what you're trying to say with the share price. MSFT was trading in the high 40s for most of the middle of the year, tanked badly around the time Win10 actually launched, and has since recovered and pushed up to mid-50s. That's not particularly impressive given the scale of the launch, and certainly no ringing endorsement of the Win10 strategy from investors.

An interesting comparison is Adobe's share price, which has risen strongly over the past couple of years since the move to their subscription-based Creative Cloud offering. Notably, that share price doesn't seem to reflect actual company performance: they've traditionally been conservative in their market guidance and have still missed targets on several quarters. Two years after launching, CC was still at around half the old user base of CS (ignoring individual product sales, so this comparison actually makes CC performance look better than it is) so adoption has been far from universal. Despite all this evidence to the contrary, investors still appear to believe that the SaaS model will be dramatically more profitable in the long term. Microsoft aren't seeing the same kind of growth so far.

So, it is Slashdot anecdotal "I don't know anybody using this", against independent reports about well over 100 million users (!) already several months ago.

Is that 100 million supposed to be impressive? Because at Microsoft's scale, it doesn't seem particularly impressive to me. Win10 is somewhere around the same level as WinXP according to various stats sites I just checked. That leaves Win10 still more than 5x smaller than Win7 in market share, despite Microsoft literally giving it away and actively trying to push Win7 and Win8 users into updating.

Microsoft Edge just passed Safari (and all Linux use combined) in market share, but if you don't bother to test web sites for Safari then Edge would be in the same category right now, yes.

For what sites? For some B2C sites that actually work well on mobile devices -- which seems to be the only case where that particular comparison is useful -- I can see Safari use at close to 20x that of Edge, in the same league as Chrome. In contrast, Edge is registering just above Amazon Silk, the old Android Browser, and something I've never even heard of.

Re:Windows 7

[Aighearach]

You're conflating totally different things: unhappy windows users, and the open source "crowd." People using open source receive no benefit at all from disaffected users switching. None. Zero. Zilch. You're welcome to use it, and clog up the help sites with questions. But it benefits only you. And it is up to you to decide if it even does that.

If software developers switch, that has benefits because whatever their pet tool or language is, they might release some library bindings or something. More developers at a minimum will tend to mean more compatibility, because that is the low-hanging fruit that new developers can pick up, and also that is the type of stuff that comes out of incremental "itch scratching."

There is no opportunity here to "seize" by the "open source crowd." If there is an opportunity, it is for the open source software vendors to make some enterprise support contract sales, if they can convince some corporation that this sort of forced uninstall threatens all of their core practices, which it likely does. But that doesn't benefit the "crowd" in any way. And no, those companies are not internally divided; they are regular companies with high morale and good worker loyalty.

To the extent that the open source "crowd" is divided, they're also compartmentalized; they aren't operating in an environment of division and conflict. Each team is operating in a fairly calm environment with an established leadership system and quantized decision-making.

Re: Windows 7

[Anonymous Brave Guy]

It is much more than Windows 7 which reached 100 mill after 6 months.

But early adoption is front-loaded so not as big a difference as that makes it seem, and this time they are literally giving Win10 away (and actively trying to push users into installing it, something they've been working on since well before it actually launched). So at this stage 100M might be satisfactory, but it doesn't seem to be anything special.

This is last month from one of them, where they are tied, you need subscription to see the latest where they have passed.

Safari is lost in the noise, Chrome barely over 20%, and IE8 at well over 10%? Those figures are laughable, presumably because whatever data sets they use are heavily biased. And they still don't think Edge has a significant share of the market.

Re:Windows 7

[budgenator]

My installs at work (10 machines) went smooth once we got the administrator issues sorted out, the only thing that fubared was some digital camera software that was "windowsXP" compatible, but even claiming "windowsXP" compatibility was overly optimistic. The upgrade did wipe-out our antivirus, but our AV knew that would happen and automatically re-installed a compatible version with one button click on reboot.

Re:Windows 7

[Pentium100]

Do those games support keyboard+mouse controls?
I mostly play FPS and adventure games by the way. Keyboard and mouse are the best controls for them.

Re:Windows 7

[KGIII]

Post SP1 made Vista into a serviceable operating system. I used it, happily, for quite some time. Once SP1 was released and installed there were a few boxes, later on, that I never felt compelled to even bother upgrading to 7. I wasn't fond of 8 or 8.1. I have about five minutes of very casual button poking on Windows 10 and that's the extent of it.

I use Linux. I'd always kept it installed on a second partition, for the most part, since the late 1990s but I never gave it the attention it deserved. So, I just stopped using Windows as my OS, even in dual boot configuration, because if I kept doing so then I'd never take the time to learn more about Linux. I'll likely return to Windows in the distant future, probably years from now, but I've never really hated an OS from anyone except for the 8 and 8.1 versions. They were salvageable but it was never worth doing so as I had Vista and 7 available.

Re: Windows 7

[budgenator]

Must be all of the added revenues from the free windows 10 upgrade!

Re:Windows 7

[DrXym]

I presently have 120 games on steam. Of those only about 25 are available on Linux, mostly Indies. Of those I've tried 5 or 6 and 2 of them were unplayable. Don't Starve overlaid the game with weird steam controller diagnostics. Goat Simulator ran for 5 seconds before hard crashing my entire laptop. I assume the latter was because the game did something my opensource Intel GPU driver didn't agree with.

If Steam support Linux at all it's only coincidental to their efforts to make this handful work on certified SteamOS machines, or more realistically on whatever cloud platform Valve are cooking up. Other Linux systems can go hang.

Re:Windows 7

[KGIII]

LOL You're frothing at the mouth again Mac's. They did not claim that OS X was currently doing so specifically, only that they were headed there. And, really, I guess it was a question. Apple's a big company, you don't have to defend 'em. We know all about 'em. You don't have a decent free firewall for OS X? That kind of sucks. Even Windows has one and it's not too bad these days from my understanding. Well, assuming you don't want to block Microsoft's telemetry gathering.

Anyhow, spyware to me means that you didn't consent to it. The users consented to, clicked through at least, the EULA which I'm pretty sure informed them that Microsoft would be collecting data and that they would be trying to do so - even if you didn't want them to do so. That makes them assholes, not necessarily spyware. I believe you'll find Siri collects similar data if you want full functionality. (They kind of have to send your inputs to the 'net to find your content. Hell, I *also* seem to recall a post from the other day that mentioned that if you didn't pay for the music service that you couldn't search for music - I don't know how valid that is, some subscription thingy for the Apple Music Store or whatever they called it.)

Either way, yeah, you'll probably find your OS is in a similar situation soon enough. That will suck and hopefully Apple doesn't go that route but greater features often need more data to properly implement them. But, equally important, Apple's got plenty of ads out there - you don't really *need* to defend them against perceived slights. They'll be okay. ;-) They make some good stuff, hopefully they keep it that way. Trends suggest otherwise but there's hope. I'm off in Linux-land so I'm not terribly concerned but it may come to my end as well - some applications already request telemetry data and there's some data being sent out in a default configuration of Ubuntu. At least you and I are more able to disable that stuff, for now, than the Windows users.

But, again, they did consent to being tracked. They might not like that they did. They might not have been smart enough to read the EULA and understand it. But, they certainly gave consent either explicit or implied. My understanding is that a decent software firewall (not from Microsoft) is enough to block any leaking data. Agnitum's Outpost Personal Firewall is one that I am, shall we say, intimately familiar with so Windows users can consider this a blatant plug for their software but I am not, directly, financially affiliated with the company or the software.

Re:Windows 7

[KGIII]

This... It's being skipped because it's tied in with EUFI. Disable fast boot in system settings (it's somewhere in there, I don't know where but the question gets asked every single day on the various forums) and then, if it still isn't showing grub, boot to a live disk and run `sudo update-grub` and it will figure it out on its own. On the off-chance that it doesn't then get a copy of boot-repair and that should do it. If it *still* doesn't work then just edit the damned config file by hand, save it, and then run the update-grub command.

This question is asked so often that I, someone who doesn't even have Windows installed on anything other than a phone, know the answer to it - or at least where to find the answer. Google "dual boot Windows 10 and Linux" and you'll get step-by-step directions on the first page. Jump in at the correct place or use the search as a jump-off point and add the words repair, uefi, and swap out Linux for your distro of choice. I'm pretty sure you can have a Linux install that doesn't even *have* a live OS variant and still use a live disk from *any* vendor and `sudo update-grub` will still work.

Re:Windows 7

[Noah Haders]

it has a joystick mouse which is like a joystick, and a keyboard but only like a half dozen keys on it so its super simple. and it has the directional arrows! it helps if you turn on auto-aiming. but its cheaper than a windows gaming rig. $400, you can probably find it for $300 on black friday. this hardware will be current for the next 7 years, too.
 

Re:Windows 7

[Killall -9 Bash]

I have updates disabled on win7. Pretty much the only way to ensure MS isn't going to fuck it up to prod me to use 10 (like they crapped-up XP SP3 to try to shove me to Vista).

Think this is crazy? Install 7 SP1, and see how great it runs. Then enable updates, install all 150 updates, and see how it runs no better than Vista.

Re:Windows 7

[drinkypoo]

Funny, because I had an laptop that came with Vista SP1. Later when I upgraded it to Windows 7, I wondered why I even bothered since it looked and performed exactly the same.

And I had a laptop that came with Vista. It was totally unusable. Then SP1 came out and it became mildly usable. Then I got Windows 7 on it and the difference was like night and day. Boot times were cut by far more than half. Time to usability after login, likewise. Responsiveness increased dramatically. Crashes reduced likewise. Windows 7 in particular uses less memory than Vista; Vista chokes on 2GB systems and doesn't become acceptable until 3 or 4GB, and 7 is acceptable in 512MB and fine in 1GB. This is not a big deal today when RAM is practically free — I have 16GB in my budget desktop, and that only because I like to run virtual machine and keep them running while I run big, memory-hungry apps. At the time, it was a big deal.

Re:Windows 7

[Pentium100]

Auto aim? What fun is playing an FPS with auto aim on?
To me, a mouse is the best input device for aiming in an FPS. To you it may be different, to each his own. While my PCs are more expensive than a console, a PC can be used for other things beside gaming. I can record and edit audio files, browse the net, create and read documents, control servers using SSH and so on.

I may be biased here - I only had one console - a Soviet or Chinese (I do not remember which, but it looked like a Famicom, but was gray color) copy of the NES over 20 years ago. After that, it's been PCs only. I recently got an Xbox (the original one) and ordered a gamepad on ebay (I got just the console, no gamepad) . When it arrives, I'll give it a try, it seems that it is possible to play NES ROMs on it, so at least I'll get to remember the old games I used to play.

Re:Windows 7

[Noah Haders]

jebus! complex! no wonder you have a bad taste of consoles?

the best part of consoles is they are simple to use. you can turn them on and play in your living room with no mess. you don't need to play at a "gaming workstation" or worry about specs of your computer or anything else. just sit down and play. you don't need a "gaming station". It's also a more open, group-friendly dynamic. Not solitary hunched over the computer. friends can watch people play or take turns, madden is fun, lots of social lounging time instead of solitary time.

you say you're into "adventure games" but this is so generic. you mean like last of us and assassin's creed and batman? these are probably the greatest strength of the console.

Re:Windows 7

[macs4all]

You don't have a decent free firewall for OS X?

That $10 application is simply a GUI front end for OS X's built-in Firewall. Apple just doesn't provide a GUI for configuring OUTGOING filtering. That's what the $10 product is for. It simply provides a GUI frontend for the more advanced features of OS X's "PF" (Personal Firewall). It's all in there; but no GUI for the Outgoing stuff. But that shouldn't be a problem for a Linux guy like you. You could simply use OS X's command-line to configure the outgoing filtering, as I said in my original post... ;-)

I believe you'll find Siri collects similar data if you want full functionality.

This is true; but Apple anonymizes the data. But yes, be careful with any voice-recognition on any platform.

Here's some answers to what is collected, how it is used, how your identity is protected, and when it is deleted.

Hell, I *also* seem to recall a post from the other day that mentioned that if you didn't pay for the music service that you couldn't search for music - I don't know how valid that is, some subscription thingy for the Apple Music Store or whatever they called it.)

Of course that's ludicrous. How could people find things to BUY on the iTunes store if they couldn't SEARCH? I expect more critical thinking from the likes of you... I think what you are thinking of is that there was a bug in the first version of iTunes that supported Apple Music that messed with some people's music collections depending on whether they were using "iTunes Match", but that was quickly fixed. ;-)

I'm off in Linux-land so I'm not terribly concerned

And yet you seem compelled to respond to nearly every post I make concerning Apple...

But, again, they [Windows Users] did consent to being tracked. They might not like that they did. They might not have been smart enough to read the EULA and understand it. But, they certainly gave consent either explicit or implied.

And yet you curiously didn't point out that "defense" when it came time for you to point fingers at Siri and iTunes; both of which contained EULAs, too...

Anyway, have a great Thanksgiving; and I look forward to our next sparring-match, LOL!

Re:Windows 7

[myrdos2]

I figured that if I poked around long enough I'd find something. Mostly I searched for "Linux won't boot after Windows 10 boot", and just found descriptions of how you need to install Windows first. But once I got the idea of ditching Windows in my head, I really liked it. It just seems so much more... peaceful. No more fighting for privacy, no more updates I can't roll back, no more of Windows casually deleting my boot loader... And no annual fee either.

Plus, I think it's the right time. It just feels like Microsoft is slowly wrestling control of the machine away from me, a little bit at a time. And while it's just starting to get a little stifling now, I can only imagine it getting worse. UEFI is currently only a hair away from not letting you install other OS's anyways. You can't tell me Microsoft isn't thinking about it. Because they've got to be thinking about it.

It seems that Windows is slowly turning into a console. I mean, why would they want you to install software not in the Windows store? They could act as gatekeepers to your computer, like they tried with RT. In RT it was too soon... but when the whole world uses Windows 10, and modern software won't even run on Windows 8 anymore, what are you going to do? If you want your precious software, you'll do it on Microsoft's terms. You'd have no choice but to use the Windows store. And Microsoft will take a cut on every sale, and gets the final say on which software you can and cannot run.

Depending on where you stand, this might seem to have a small chance of happening, instead of the big chance that I see. But with Linux there's no chance. Heh, that could be their new slogan: "Linux: Not a Chance".

Re:Windows 7

[bingoUV]

No free (not to mention open source for credibility) GUI for outgoing firewall? OSX is not ready for prime time.

Android and Fedora Linux (other flavors too) both have had free and open source firewall GUI for years.

Re:Windows 7

[Pentium100]

Well, I mostly am alone and play games alone, so a PC works for me just fine in that regard. As for simplicity - that might have been a good argument a very long time ago, but not now, since I already know how to build a PC (and a server) etc. Also, for me a console would be a "gaming station" - that is, I would need to get up from my PC, go to where the TV is (don't forget the headphones if it's at night) and play instead of just starting the game on my PC.

As for social time, when we get together with friends, we play board games:). Computer games are good enough to play over the internet (with the same friends) and it is easier to arrange. Also, AFAIK pretty much none of my friends has a new console. One has a PS2, specifically for the PS2 exclusive games.

As for keyboard+mouse control - I watched a lets play of Dead Space 2, the guy previously recorded the first Dead space on the same console and seems in general a console player. He had terrible time hitting the enemies and frequently ran out of ammo. Well, the game seemed interesting enough, so I tried it on my PC (same difficulty) - I managed to hit the enemies much better and actually ran out of inventory space for ammo a few times.
To me, it seems that a mouse is the better input device for precise and fast aiming, like in shooters. Also, you only get auto aim on consoles, which means that the developers think that PCs don't need it and consoles do. Which kinda proves my point.

The only game I though would be better with a game pad was Chantelise (though it is PC only), I almost bought a game pad for it, but then managed to learn to play using only the keyboard.

you say you're into "adventure games" but this is so generic.

Games like Dreamfall or Syberia.

Re:Windows 7

[ayesnymous]

So, I guess Windows 7 will be the last Windows OS that I use. Hopefully by the time new games stop supporting it, Linux will have the support of new games.

Even Windows 7 has the same issues that Windows 10 has with telemetry updates, etc.

Re:Windows 7

[Pentium100]

Not if I do not allow those specific updates or disable all updates.

Re:Windows 7

[macs4all]

No free (not to mention open source for credibility) GUI for outgoing firewall? OSX is not ready for prime time.

Android and Fedora Linux (other flavors too) both have had free and open source firewall GUI for years.

There was one for ipfw, but not for the outgoing rules for pf.

Re:Windows 7

[macs4all]

Sorry to Reply to my own post; but it seems like there is a free, open source GUI for Outgoing traffic using pf.

So I guess that means that OS X is ready for prime time now, eh?

Re:Windows 7

[antdude]

Ha, my employer's IT already supports W8 & W10. :/

Re:Windows 7

[bingoUV]

Why were you shilling for the $10 one then?

Re: Windows 7

[jpenguin]

7 is pretty much Vista SP2

Re:Windows 7

[drinkypoo]

I never experienced any of that. Vista was actually quite pleasant for me and moving to Windows 7 wasn't really much of an upgrade. Maybe the laptop you tried Vista on just had poor specs.

The world disagrees with you. There were actually lawsuits over computers carrying vista-ready stickers that wouldn't run vista worth a crap... the same machines would later go on to run Windows 7 without a hitch. It's not just me, it's just you. Do you work for Microsoft, or what? Even the people I know who work there won't defend Vista, so it must be something else.

Re:Windows 7

[macs4all]

Why were you shilling for the $10 one then?

Because I hadn't run across the free one when I wrote the first post. And if you notice, the same guy is actually responsible for both projects.

And I wasn't "shilling", FFS.

And in case you hadn't noticed, it really ISN'T a fucking crime to want to make a little cash offa your development efforts. $10 probably works out to about .000013 cents per hour for him. Yeah, he's the next Bill Gates! You would think that a site frequented by so many alleged Developers would have more members that understood that; even the ones that strongly support, and/or contribute, to F/OSS.

Let me ask you a question: Do you have a job, Mr. Labowski?

Re:Windows 7

[bratwiz]

Sign the Change.Org Petition:

Bad Microsoft! Stop Pushing Windows 10 On Consumers Uninvited!

There is a new Change.Org petition to protest Microsoft's unilateral push of Windows 10 onto consumers whether they want it or not. The petition specifically addresses the issue of Bandwidth and Disk Space consumed, the various Privacy Concerns, the fact that Personal Data is sent out to Microsoft and other "unnamed" third-party entities with little way to Opt Out-- yes, it is possible, but not straight-foward, and it isn't entirely clear whether additional monitoring occurs anyway. This issue is not about whether the Windows 10 Operating System is "good" or "bad" particularly, but specifically protests the manner in which it is forced upon consumers with very little regard for their systems which can be broken by the install, or the problems which can occur afterwards such as with device drivers and whatnot, of the changes in the EULA which make it harder to hold Microsoft accountable for these kinds of actions in the future. This petition is about Microsoft unilaterally taking away consumer choice and forcing their choice onto our computers.

BAD MICROSOFT. YOU SHOULD BE ASHAMED OF YOURSELVES.

You can sign the petition here:

http://slashdot.org/submission...

Re:Windows 7

[bingoUV]

Developers making money is not a problem. Companies selling their computing infrastructure products with inscrutable software is.

Re: Windows 7

[dotwhynot]

Safari is lost in the noise, Chrome barely over 20%, and IE8 at well over 10%? Those figures are laughable, presumably because whatever data sets they use are heavily biased. And they still don't think Edge has a significant share of the market.

Not same AC but if you are not seeing significant IE8 in your numbers you might be the one with a biased dataset, it is still default in a lot of huge corporations (I work in a 40,000 people company and only a few of us working online roles are allowed to use anything other than IE8, and if we do some of the intranet systems don't work)

Re:Windows 7

[drinkypoo]

A few whiners isn't the world. Many people were fine with Vista.

And your experience is irrelevant to the broader experience that was experienced by the majority of users, and you are willfully ignorant.

Your hatred is blinding you to the fact that not everyone had the same experience you did, if you even had that experience and aren't just lying about it all.

Your cowardice is leading you to troll from behind anonymity because you know that you're a lying sack of shit.

Re: Windows 7

[Anonymous Brave Guy]

I deal with a diverse range of web sites/apps (part of my work is freelance/consultancy, so I see a lot of variations). It's certainly true that some big businesses still use IE8, but in my experience even the stubborn hold-outs have been starting to give up, particularly since XP support ran out unless they paid serious money to retain it. I haven't had a mandatory requirement for IE8 support even in B2B work for several years now. Actually the highest use of older IE versions I see is often from places like China rather than big businesses, but again even that seems to be changing.

So while I would agree that IE8 still has some market share on some sites, the idea that 10% of all pageviews across the web are on IE8 is so wildly inconsistent with any primary data set I have access to that I still struggle to believe it. Given the other anomalies here, such as the relatively low Chrome figures compared to other summary sites and the insignificance of Safari despite Apple selling hundreds of millions of iSomethings per year where the Safari engine is the only one any browser is allowed to use, I'm still inclined to think this data set comes from sites heavily biased towards desktop/business use.

This is all something of a distraction anyway, of course. The original point was that Edge use is still down in the noise, and neither the IE8 nor the Safari data points change that even if they really are accurate and my experience really is wildly unrepresentative.

Re:Windows 7

[macs4all]

Developers making money is not a problem. Companies selling their computing infrastructure products with inscrutable software is.

LOL! Let me ask you: Just how far are you going to move those goalposts?

There is NOTHING "inscrutable" about pf. Not only is it a standard FreeBSD package, but Apple also provides ample documentation of the pf.conf file. This is, IIRC, all of the typical documentation that any "computing infrastructure product" is provided with in Linux, right? Apple just chose to only expose some of the many capabilities of pf, most of which the vast majority of users wouldn't have an interest in, in their standard GUI for pf.conf.

Nothing "inscrutable" here. Just the typical design decisions when a GUI is overlaid on a sophisticated OS, whether we're talking about OS X, Windows or Linux. And you very well know that; so do the Internets a favor and STFU.

Re:Windows 7

[bingoUV]

Developers making money is not a problem. Companies selling their computing infrastructure products with inscrutable software is.

There is NOTHING "inscrutable" about pf.

1. I didn't say pf is inscrutable.
2. pf is not the only software shipped on computing infrastructure products sold by some companies.

Re:Windows 7

[macs4all]

Developers making money is not a problem. Companies selling their computing infrastructure products with inscrutable software is.

There is NOTHING "inscrutable" about pf.

1. I didn't say pf is inscrutable. 2. pf is not the only software shipped on computing infrastructure products sold by some companies.

You just want to argue. Go away.

Re:Windows 7

[bingoUV]

Yes, I want to argue, not shill.

Intended?

[Darinbob]

How dare you question the infinite wisdom of Microsoft!

New CEO, new Windows VP, and yet we're still treated like children who should not be allowed to make decisions on our own. They're not going to ask if we want the applications removed or not, because we're apparently not able to make such a complicated judgement call.

Re:Intended?

[hcs_$reboot]

To be fair, and I'll play the devil advocate for once, not all Windows users are slashdotters. Yes, you, /. reader, belong to the cream of the cream of the IT knowledgeable people on Earth. For the remaining 99%, Windows is just a tool to run some games, play movies, open IE and watch porn, and to occasionally feed some accounting basic Excel spreadsheets. So MS takes over, sometimes, and decides for you what's good, what's bad. And acts accordingly. And maybe this is better for most users. Of course, however how deep you'd have to dig it, there must be an option - intended for the advanced user - to switch off any of those intrusive features.

Re:Intended?

[Anonymous Coward]

There are a lot of users who might be best of with the company knowing best... but ceding control of one's PC is not a good thing.

Folks, we are starting to lose the war on the desktop. Consoles are already lost, phones and tablets are becoming less modifiable, and with the push for "security" on IoT devices, this usually means security against the owner, not an intruder.

If we lose the desktop, we are fucked, pure and simple. Look how recently PC makers and MS have been pushing boundaries:

1: The Superfish type of items. In this day and age of anything and everything being used as a potential means of intel gathering, any type of "functionality" along these lines should be treated as malicious criminal activity, or at best, gross negligence. This should never have passed any QA department.

2: W10 removing software. I understand the purpose of the Windows MSRT... but there is a boundary between obvious malware and Speccy.

3: Telemetry data. Before this year, telemetry was not even used much in this context. In the past, people would be writing their senators about such privacy invasions (think the "scandal" ages ago, where Prodigy set aside temp files without clearing them, and people found their deleted stuff in them.) Unless something is done now, this trespass will continue to the point where a Windows machine is basically an endpoint belonging to advertisers, intel gatherers, and potentially malware authors.

Want to know how to get the desktop back? It is going to be pretty tough at this rate, but we can still run older operating systems, or operating systems which don't really care about telemetry data. Virtualization also helps.

Re:Intended?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yep, we're not. What? Did you think that after over a decade of demanding "things that just work", "upgrading" means buying a completely new machine, and replacing the things after the first hiccup at full retail cost (along with the fee to recover / move their data to the new machine), that the general public has even the remotest idea of what real computer maintenance is? They are no more qualified to fix / maintain a modern computer than a baby is to drive a car. Of course Mircosoft is going to uninstall shit that may not work anymore. I'm just surprised that it didn't start happening sooner. (Especially when you consider that most software for Windows is binary blobs that will break the second that an ABI changes. The fact they keep things going as long has they have is quite the impressive feat.)

This was the next logical step after automating the updates process. Remove the potentially bad software that may cause issues or stop working altogether after an update. (Because the user is too stupid to do it themselves.) Actually what needs to happen is an update for the defective software needs to be pushed, instead of outright removal, but not all software will get updates. So this is bound to happen eventually. (Yes, I saw that some updates were available for the software mentioned in the summary. Microsoft probably didn't check again after deciding to remove it which shows lack of communication and proper processes for handing this kind of "support" but give them time. If they want to continue doing this there will eventually be a system in place for application maintainers and Microsoft to discuss pending / testing updates.)

For those wondering the next step after this is curated software and a built in package management system. (The Windows Store seems like it's being positioned for the task.) So prepare yourselves accordingly.

Re:Intended?

[Darinbob]

Microsoft could just ask. Most users would probably say "ya, delete it, that Catalyst Control Center sounds scary".

Re:Intended?

[mwvdlee]

And they should.
You bought an MSI or ASUS or whatever brand graphics card with an AMD-branded Radeon chip... which of these words hint at "Catalyst"?
I know it sounds less "k3wl", but what's wrong with naming it "AMD graphics driver".
Marketeers should keep their dirty mittens off anything that affects actual users.

Re:Intended?

[Cley Faye]

To be more fair, if a non-tech-savy relative suddenly lose an app overnight, he's gonna call me to fix it.

Re:Intended?

[Anonymous Coward]

Microsoft told the world they would be doing this. They clearly stated that win10 would remove software they considered harmful or illegal. The outrage came from PC gamers for months. It was very vociferous, mainly due to the fear of losing their pirated games; or Microsoft deciding they were pirated versions regardless of whether they were or not.

The fact you feel the need to defend a global corporation having the power to remove what it wants at will from devices all over the planet, says more about your feeble compliant mindset. The reality is someone hiding behind a monitor thousands of miles away can say "don't like that, delete it en-masse," or automated it. Which is even scarier.

With a bit of luck, you'll lose some of your applications, settings and associated data from this bullshit. How we'll all laugh. Microsoft know best, though!

Re:Intended?

[drinkypoo]

I know it sounds less "k3wl", but what's wrong with naming it "AMD graphics driver".

I haven't installed AMDshit in a while, but last I checked, in uninstall it said "AMD Catalyst control center". That still doesn't tell you much but at least it gives you a hint.

Re:Intended?

[gstoddart]

Yes, you, /. reader, belong to the cream of the cream of the IT knowledgeable people on Earth.

LOL, you must be new here.

Slashdot is a up into the 4 million or so accounts created range, some subset of which are smart and knowledgeable.

Another significant subset are a bunch of poo-flinging monkeys screeching at one another.

You really really can't generalize about the makeup of Slashdot.

Re:Intended?

[JustAnotherOldGuy]

How dare you question the infinite wisdom of Microsoft!

New CEO, new Windows VP, and yet we're still treated like children who should not be allowed to make decisions on our own. They're not going to ask if we want the applications removed or not, because we're apparently not able to make such a complicated judgement call.

Yeah, but for each application they remove you'll get a coupon for 10% off the corresponding Metro app in the Windows Store!

Re:Intended?

[hcs_$reboot]

With a bit of luck, you'll lose some of your applications, settings and associated data from this bullshit

Thank you for your kind wishes. I mostly use Linux though, and occasionally a Mac...

Re:Intended?

[drinkypoo]

Slashdot is a up into the 4 million or so accounts created range, some subset of which are smart and knowledgeable.

and most of which are bots or throwaways

Re:Intended?

[edtice1559]

Except that we're not really losing any of this. Certain hardware that is sold at a loss is pretty locked down. Apple devices are locked up tight but they are so overpriced for the hardware that it doesn't matter. The vast majority of non-subsidized phones, tablets, and laptops that you buy are completely open. You can also buy a wider range of general purpose equipment than ever. Raspberry Pi anybody? Cyagenomod runs great on any Nexus branded hardware. The FOSS tools are the best they've ever been. You can run a Linux desktop without feeling left out all the time. The Clang compiler is as good as commercial alternatives. I've tried to live a life of "control" over my devices in the past and it was pretty miserable. If I had to do it today, I might not even notice.

Re:Intended?

[Ol Olsoc]

For the remaining 99%, Windows is just a tool to run some games, play movies, open IE and watch porn, and to occasionally feed some accounting basic Excel spreadsheets.

My wife, who aside from the porn bit, and she spends some time on facebook, is exactly what you describe.

She's non-technical as well. And despite what you write, she hates Windows a lot. Evver since I installed Mint on her touchscreen laptop, she's converted to Linux.

Because it's one metric shitload easier to use.

Re:Intended?

[danmoran]

Yes, in that sense, the quality of the software is a reflection of the demand. Not long ago, there were dire warnings that the rise of smart phones and consoles would relegate PC's to "enthusiasts" only. When I recall what computing was like when we enthusiasts were the primary audience, I can only hope that they are right.

Re:Intended?

[Ol Olsoc]

Except that we're not really losing any of this. Certain hardware that is sold at a loss is pretty locked down. Apple devices are locked up tight but they are so overpriced for the hardware that it doesn't matter.

Jeebus, when you have no idea of what you are talking about, you should at least think a little before you post.

This "locked down" you speak of .....My Mac runs OSX, Windows, and Linux. For such a locked down machine, I have a lot of options.

Your overpriced meme isn't all that hot either. I've owned both PC's and Macs since the early 90's, and there are two constants.

I replace my PC's at about 1.5 times the rate of replacing my Macs.

I find that once I price out comparable PCs, they tend much closer and in a few cases more expensive than Macs.

In the end though, my Mac is a tool that I use, and the Windows PC simply doesn't have the software I need. So I'm glad I don't have to replace them on as short a schedule as my windows machines.

Re:Intended?

[BitZtream]

Unless something is done now, this trespass will continue to the point where a Windows machine is basically an endpoint belonging to advertisers, intel gatherers, and potentially malware authors.

So it'll be just like it Android?

Re:Intended?

[edtice1559]

I was actually thinking of iPhone / iPad when I made this comment, but good point that Apple also does still sell Macs. That being said, the rest of your comment proves my point. We aren't living in a locked down world. We are in a world where you can either have complete control or you can use locked devices. I don't see anything wrong with having a choice.

Re:Intended?

[jedidiah]

> I replace my PC's at about 1.5 times the rate of replacing my Macs.

Then you're an even bigger idiot then one would think from the rest of your post. Macs are inherently less maintainable and more prone to failure due to the stupid form factors they use.

My entire Mac flirtation period came and went while my main PC kept chugging along being useful and just powerful enough (despite years of use) that upgrading it makes no sense.

With extra memory slots and the option to upgrade my GPU, it can still remain useful for YEARS despite being pretty old already.

My Macs quickly became doorstops, especially because of the GPUs they came with.

Re:Intended?

[Ol Olsoc]

This "locked down" you speak of .....My Mac runs OSX, Windows, and Linux. For such a locked down machine, I have a lot of options.

How many of those options involve non-Apple-blessed hardware? Any?

I thought not.

Which means absolutely nothing. Did you have a point, or were you digging at the bottom of your applehate barrel?

Re:Intended?

[Ol Olsoc]

> I replace my PC's at about 1.5 times the rate of replacing my Macs.

Then you're an even bigger idiot then one would think from the rest of your post. Macs are inherently less maintainable and more prone to failure due to the stupid form factors they use.

Yeah, 20 years of experience doesn't make me correct, but it does make for some more data points - but I was talking about the machines becomine obsolete. If you are trying to talk about mechanical/electronic failures, my experience is even worse for the PC's. The only large scale failure macwise was the crappy electrolytic cap issue with some iMacs around 12 years ago. But Dell was hit with that one as well. Personally, I only had a failure with the power supply of one Xserver. The Windows machines, built on the cheaper is always better chestnut, did fail more often.

My entire Mac flirtation period came and went while my main PC kept chugging along being useful and just powerful enough (despite years of use) that upgrading it makes no sense.

So your virtual non experience is now translated to all Macs?

p>With extra memory slots and the option to upgrade my GPU, it can still remain useful for YEARS despite being pretty old already.

My Macs quickly became doorstops, especially because of the GPUs they came with.

What on earth? Are you sitting there and telling me that Macs are not upgradeable? I guess the larger hard drives and extra memory I easily installed in my latest iMac never happened? It was quite easy as well. My Mac Pros were the epitome of upgradeability.

personal iMac - in your vast experience with Macs - non upgradeable machine, destined to become a door stop - has extra slots filled with new memory, SSD and runs them just fine for a machine that you seem to think cannot be upgraded.

Bitch, please. If you going to call someone an idiot, at least don't make shit up, or speak of things you know nought about.

Re:Intended?

[cellocgw]

For the remaining 99%, Windows is just a tool to run some games, play movies, open IE and watch porn, and to occasionally feed some accounting basic Excel spreadsheets.

My wife, who aside from the porn bit, and she spends some time on facebook, is exactly what you describe.

Your sure? Last time I looked at her browsing history, ... well, let's say there may be some new gadgets in your bedroom's future.

Re:Intended?

[Aighearach]

Calm down, remember to breathe.

Don't be frightened, the Free Software Movement has your back. Right now you're still allowing yourself to be treated this way, because "nobody ever got fired for choosing MicroSoft," and your boss is an idiot. But don't despair! That isn't a slippery slope, because at any time when it gets too uncomfortable, Free Software will still be right there, waiting to respect your freedoms.

It is never too late to change, so it doesn't matter how awful they become. Whenever it is too awful for your tolerances, you can be Saved.

Praise to Saint IGNUcius!

Re:Intended?

[Aighearach]

"Locked down hardware" in the context of personal computers means that you can't use third party hardware. So that was probably his point; what the words meant literally was also the "point." A better question would have been, "I don't understand your point, can you elaborate?" At which point it could be explained to you that while you can run different software on Apple's hardware, you can't replace Apple's choice of hardware with third party hardware. So that makes the hardware "locked down." Running windows or linux tells you about the software, and if it is locked down, not the hardware.

Apple does actually still sell personal computers, but it isn't a very profitable product for them. They mostly sell phones and music players. Which, BTW, are "locked down" in both hardware and software.

Re:Intended?

[Aighearach]

Little boy, I know you were born yesterday by your user ID, but maybe you can get over the name-calling stage?

You're claiming somebody else is wrong on the internet, but the problem is that you're also claiming that Macs are as upgradeable as commodity x86-compatible machines. That is an absurd claim. As an Apple fanboy it is your right to claim that Macs are upgradeable enough for your use cases, but it is "insane" (literally) to claim that Macs are equally upgradeable. And yet, you seem to be claiming that because some part of the Mac is upgradeable, such as the disk drive, that therefore Macs are generally immune from comparisons that show it to be less upgradeable. That is absurd.

You actually give the impression, probably not as you intended, that you've had your head up your Mac so long that you never even learned which parts of other brands of computers are upgradeable.

Also, trim your neckbeard. Calling somebody with a 4-digit username the B-word shows that you have a small woowoo and should stop trying to over-compensate so hard. You don't even know that Macs are less upgradeable than most systems, even most commercial UNIXes, and yet you're going to try to wave your giant knowledge in the air? No little boy, that isn't an impressive knowledge, it is a laughable little hair.

Re:Intended?

[Aighearach]

If you can tell the poo-flinging monkeys from the bots that is pretty good. I'm of the opinion that the bots fling poo because they were coded by monkeys, and it doesn't actually make a difference which a particular instance is because they have shared goals.

Re:Intended?

[Aighearach]

When I used to do small business IT I got a few companies to switch to linux because I stopped trying to explain what a "spreadsheet" is and that you can do that in OpenOffice, and switched my script to "you can do Excel in OpenOffice, too." It is really funny how their eyes light up when they hear that, after having been glazed over during the "spreadsheet" talk.

As for the personal bit, if my wife didn't have any porn on her computer I'd be worried.

Re:Intended?

[Ol Olsoc]

For the remaining 99%, Windows is just a tool to run some games, play movies, open IE and watch porn, and to occasionally feed some accounting basic Excel spreadsheets.

My wife, who aside from the porn bit, and she spends some time on facebook, is exactly what you describe.

Your sure? Last time I looked at her browsing history, ... well, let's say there may be some new gadgets in your bedroom's future.

Excellent!!!!!

Re:Intended?

[Bratch]

Not every wife has someone who can convert her to Linux, probably more than 99% don't have someone who can install it, assist with the learning Linux process, and help with anything that might not work right. I've seen many of the 99% getting by just fine with Chrome Books too.

Re:Intended?

[Ol Olsoc]

"Locked down hardware" in the context of personal computers means that you can't use third party hardware.

Um. enlighten me. I've bought much hardware, many peripherals over the years, and haven't had this lockdown issue. Lots of hard drives, had to be formatted differently, but tyhat's hardly exclusive. RAM expansion - pray don't tell me that different RAM modules are an Apple only thing. You see, As a user of both Windows type PCs and Apple PCs, I've bought a lot of hardaware for both.

So aside from say Thunderbolt, what are you talking about? And by the way, I have a normal secondary 27 inch Dell monitor on my Mac that just has a little Thunderbolt adapter.. Looks great. Additional RAM and new hard Drive. All working just fine.

I have 2 USB external hard drives - seem to be working fine for a couple years now. I have USB to serial converters, FTDI at the moment, but I understand that th eprolific chipset has written a proper driver - there was about 6 months after an upgrade ot El Capitan that prolifics weren't supported. I have extension USB hubs - work well, a bluetooth mic/headset that I use often. I have a USB vidccm - works great. I have Thumb drives that just plug right in. It's not like Apple gets their components from another universe. The idea that I have to use some sort of special apple only hardware is ludicrous - I can take most everything off the MAC and plug it into the PC sitting beside it, and it will work.

So that was probably his point; what the words meant literally was also the "point." A better question would have been, "I don't understand your point, can you elaborate?"

Okay, I get it. I don't understand your point, can you elaborate?

Tell me all about the Apple only hardware that cause you fellows such turmoil and umbrage. In fact, the software would be a better example of something being locked down. Just not in my direction. I can run Windows software on My Apple. How's that Mac Software running on the Windows machine? But that doesn't count to you so okay.

At which point it could be explained to you that while you can run different software on Apple's hardware, you can't replace Apple's choice of hardware with third party hardware.

At which point I will very respectfully tell you that you are completely full of shit and have no idea of what you are talking about.

My iMac does have some built in onboard devices. But that only means it is "locked down" in the same manner that any mobo device computer is locked down. My Power Macs have lots of expansion capabilities. And the whole argument is specious I have choices, and the Mac ecosystem can be considered locked down only if the Windows ecosystem can be considered locked down. Tell me please, of the items that I have listed, bought at a local store or online simply does not work - aside from RAM, which if your definition is used, makes many computers "locked down". Any of those devices would fit right in to a Windows or Linux box.

Drives were formatted to Apple except for the thumbs and a transfer hard drive - unless it has changed, My Windows machines won't read Mac formatted disks. So they'd have to be reformatted. But you cannot use that as an example, because you invalidated software.

This is about as stupid a discussion as I've had in here. A metric only car is more locked down than your locked down Mac example.

Re:Intended?

[phizi0n]

At least they finally changed the name to Radeon Software Crimson Edition and the settings app is now called Radeon Settings. People will finally be able to connect the name on the box/sticker with the name of the software for it.

Re:Intended?

[Aighearach]

Right, OK. I'll explain it to you. Everything you talk about is either a disk drive, RAM, or an external device that plugs into the computer.

Everybody else with commodity systems can also upgrade the parts that are internal, and not just the disk drives and RAM.

You just keep talking about disk drives, disk drives, disk drives. Right, that is all you understand as being upgradeable. If you've been a fanboi as long as you claim, you remember that when you started you couldn't even share disk drives. ;) I know it is great that you can do that now. Now, go get a motherboard from a different vendor, and install that. Oh, you can't, there are no other vendors. LOL derrrrrr

Re:Intended?

[Ol Olsoc]

Because it's one metric shitload easier to use.

How much is that in imperial units?

1 each Fuckton.

Re:Intended?

[Ol Olsoc]

Now, go get a motherboard from a different vendor, and install that. Oh, you can't, there are no other vendors. LOL derrrrrr

Well, yeah - you are 100 percent correct. If I want an apple computer, I certainly do need an Apple mobo. Forgive me - bacause that was so obvious I missed it.

Re:Intended?

[bingoUV]

In my teenage days decades ago, I once paid too much for my ice cream - I was duped. I licked it 1.5 times longer than the regular ice cream.

Not because it was any more enjoyable, but I had to compensate for having overpaid for my ice cream.

It's the same with Macs. Apple helps you along by charging exorbitantly for it's own RAM, soldering RAM, making batteries difficult to replace, etc. in different devices so that you suffer the same hardware for longer after obsolescence.

Microsoft = Big Brother

[Anonymous Coward]

They've jumped the shark and gone to plaid.

release notes should have informed users

[Ilgaz]

Oh wait, there are no release notes except marketing talk. Believe or not, they don't publish release notes anymore. When a company CEO talks about what a "serious" company they are, show them this story.

Re:release notes should have informed users

[squiggleslash]

This is another thing that's really pissing me off about Windows 10 - quite honestly, if it wasn't for the fact Windows 10 is slow and bug ridden (Fall update helped a little with the first, but made the latter much, much, worse), I'd have turned off updates completely by now. How does Microsoft expect us to trust them with automatic updates if they're not going to tell us what those updates are supposed to do?

Re:release notes should have informed users

[gstoddart]

How can you have release notes when you have a piecemeal release which now deliberately hides what a specific update is for? Or when they pull a release and say "no, bad release, use the previous one"?

Microsoft has abdicated release engineering in favor of what is essentially rolling releases.

My guess is MS themselves haven't the slightest frigging idea of what any release actually contains, and they really don't give a damn if your PC works after the update or not ... as long as a statistically "good enough" percentage is shown to work with the mandatory bullshit telemetry they've installed so they can measure how shitty of a job they're doing.

Microsoft has decided people are beta testers, and not giving them much choice in the matter.

And I'm afraid for me that means I might take security updates, and pretty much ignore all the "important" and "recommended" ones ... because Microsoft is bloody well no longer being honest about what they're installing on our machines.

I like my Windows 8.1 box -- once I turned off all the Metro crap, installed Classic Desktop, and turned it into a useful computer again.

I have no interest in being part of their beta program for WIndows 10, or for that matter even running Windows 10.

But make no mistake about it, with Windows 10 Microsoft is flailing around like a lumbering beast trying to decide what it is, having everyone be the beta testers, and making random and arbitrary decisions about what software they will permit you to keep.

Microsoft has lost the plot, jumped the shark, and shat the bed on this. And they're doing this to us without really giving a damn about our opinions of it.

Release notes would imply some coherent strategy. So far, I don't think they have one of those they can articulate other than "screw you, we're updating your computer and don't give a fuck what you think".

Re:release notes should have informed users

[CastrTroy]

if it wasn't for the fact Windows 10 is slow and bug ridden

Sorry, I don't really see this on my installation. I installed the tech preview about a month before release and at that point there was quite a few bugs. However, since I got the final version, I haven't noticed any problems as far as bugs go.

As far as speed goes, I find it to be a very responsive OS. I've even taken to turning my desktop off when I'm not using it because it boots so fast. I haven't done that with a computer in decades. Within 15 seconds of pressing the power button I can log in, and there is no extra slowness after logging in like older versions of Windows used to have.

My computer isn't anything special. AMD A8-7600 with 8 GB of RAM and an ADATA SSD. Basic low end desktop and it runs like a dream.

Re:release notes should have informed users

[squiggleslash]

That's not really a low end desktop, not even today. Most desktops are still being sold with 4Gb of RAM, and when it comes to tablets, the situation is even worse.

My tests are on a Thinkpad X100e which originally came with Windows 7 and ran it fine, with 4Gb, and a HP Stream 8 which originally came with Windows 8.1. Both have, independently, had large numbers of BSoDs since the Fall Update. Responsiveness on both is pretty bad, though has improved with the FU, but still, more often than not, trying to bring up the Start menu takes more than 10 seconds (and sometimes more than a minute) on the X100e, and is a frequent occurrence on the tablet. The notifications bar usually takes so long to come up on both I usually give up on it.

(Want to see smooth and responsive? Try Windows 8.1 on a tablet. Made me never want to use an Android tablet again.)

For obvious reasons, I've not accepted by employer's offer to switch to Windows 10, nor have I upgraded my main PC. This is terrible. Yeah, I get people saying "Well, on my low end bargain basement $10,000 desktop, an 12GHz 16 core Intel i9 with 32Gb of RAM (I mean, who uses anything less these days, right?!" (I kid, but not by much...) "it works fine!" but when you have two devices in front of you that really suck thanks to the Windows 10 update, you tend to believe your own eyes.

Honestly, I still think Microsoft should have released Windows 8.11 (8.1 with a start menu) and then spent a year polishing Windows 10 until it was ready. It shows potential, but in its current form it's garbage.

Re:release notes should have informed users

[Ol Olsoc]

if it wasn't for the fact Windows 10 is slow and bug ridden

Sorry, I don't really see this on my installation.

I've found your experience. W10 actually runs pretty well.

My objections are the surveillance and forced updates. I've had several no-choice updates on Pro already, and any OS that has a built in keylogger kinda blurs the line between white and black hat world. A lot. Sharing your wifi password is kinda nasty as well. I won't allow W10 machines or Windows phones to attach to my wifi. It's there, and a company who adds such malware and will force updates on you when you tell it not to, and will remove other software on your machine can't be trusted not to turn on either, when you ask them not to.

I have one W10 machine on my home network. You can bet I have Wireshark installed as well. Not on the Windows 10 machine though. I suspect the folks at Redmond might like to remove that particular application.

Re:release notes should have informed users

[PRMan]

And, even more importantly, most systems are still being sold with an SSD for some reason.

Re:release notes should have informed users

[Aighearach]

How does Microsoft expect us to trust them with automatic updates if they're not going to tell us what those updates are supposed to do?

Just about fell off my chair laughing at you, sorry. You're running it, so they're winning. You being unhappy and still running it, that means they have low customer expectations that are easy to meet. Your intent is to insult their service, but if you apply theory of mind and look at if from their perspective, you're heaping them with compliments.

And in general, the whole point of the updates being automatic is that they don't have to tell you what they do. Knowing what they do is only useful when you're applying them manually. Think about it. ;) If you see "automatic" as being a positive feature, you should not also be seeing "knowing in advance" as a positive feature. The whole point of automatic is to remove that burden from you, the simple user.

Re:release notes should have informed users

[AK Marc]

AMD A8-7600 with 8 GB of RAM and an ADATA SSD. Basic low end desktop and it runs like a dream.

That's not really a low end desktop, not even today.

Not a low end desktop, but worse than my laptop I paid less than $1000 for 3 years ago. Though I'm due for an upgrade, GTX 850M just doesn't cut it.

Re:release notes should have informed users

[JackAxe]

"if it wasn't for the fact Windows 10 is slow and bug ridden"

Overall Win 10 is my favorite OS -- I say this as a guy that up until recently still worked primarily on Macs and has done so since the System OS days. Win 10 runs great on my three PCs( 3 upgrades ). It's the quickest -- at least feels this way -- and most stable OS I've used. It has been stable from day one.

I don't like that Windows uninstalled CPUID. That annoyed me, but it only took me a couple of minutes to reinstall it. Now if MS had uninstalled one of my production programs without asking, I would have been really pissed off.

Re:release notes should have informed users

[CastrTroy]

This is exactly why I built my own. There was no option for a low end desktop (ex, no graphics card and lower end processor) with an SSD. I built my own machine for the same price as a low end desktop but apparently it doesn't qualify as one because I chose to use the money for an SDD and a reasonable amount of memory. I guess it cost a bit more than some of the bargain basement deals you can get, but it also performs about 10 times better. Any basic computer with a good amount of RAM and an SSD is going to perform pretty well for most desktop tasks. It even plays the new Unreal Tournament at decent frame rates on medium settings.

When's the next upgrade?

[penguinoid]

Anyone know when Microsoft will release a new version of Windows to replace Windows 7?

Re:When's the next upgrade?

[cfalcon]

Only the odd releases are worth using, so I'd wait for Windows 11.

Re:When's the next upgrade?

[garyoa1]

Ah, but win 10 is actually 9. So 11 will be 10. They are screwing with our heads! :)

Re: No one ever lost their job for choosing Micros

[Ilgaz]

That is IBM and they deserve that treatment as 40 years old software can run unmodified on 64 bit mainframe.

If shareholders wake up, a lot of IT managers would end up in prison for choosing Microsoft with very suspicious reasonings. One day, this will happen.

Re: No one ever lost their job for choosing Micros

[Z00L00K]

The problem is that it's not the IT managers that decides what to use these days, it's top level management.

Color me surprised

[rastos1]

Windows 10 is an unfolding disaster in slow motion. I make a living writing code that is used mostly on Windows and I had a bad feeling since the first Technical Preview. Decided to hold off the upgrade until the end of the free upgrade period hoping that the problems will be hammered out and the control will be (at least for most part) returned to the user. But instead it started bad and goes downhill from there.

Re:Color me surprised

[The Cisco Kid]

Windows ... is an unfolding disaster and always has been

Fixed that for you...

No effect on me here

[The Cisco Kid]

"Windows 10" hasn't uninstalled anything on any of my workstations.

Could be partly because nothing I own runs any version of any Microsoft OS.

Re:No effect on me here

[Anonymous Coward]

Edgy, bro. Don't forget your Fedora on your way out.

Re:No effect on me here

[Dog-Cow]

It's much worse than you think. Not only did it uninstall every piece of Windows software you had, it deleted itself!

Re:No effect on me here

[Maritz]

I just don't understand how one goes about becoming this cool.

Re:No effect on me here

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, and take your penguin with you too. Linux is used by Muslim terrorists.

Re:No effect on me here

[Ol Olsoc]

"Windows 10" hasn't uninstalled anything on any of my workstations.

Could be partly because nothing I own runs any version of any Microsoft OS.

They are working on that though.

Before you get your knickers in a bunch

[Gaygirlie]

Before you get your knickers in a bunch: this is most likely just a bug, not intentional. Microsoft pulled 1511 temporarily because it thinks it's doing a fresh install of Windows 10 or upgrade from a previous Windows - version instead of just being an update to an already-installed Windows 10 and ends up resetting some settings because of that, and Windows 10, when doing an upgrade from 7/8/8.1, does remove applications it thinks may be incompatible and/or interfere with the upgrade.

Re:Before you get your knickers in a bunch

[cfalcon]

Of course it's a bug. The problem is that it's willing to remove programs, and that it does so in a bugged way.

Re:Before you get your knickers in a bunch

[Anonymous Coward]

Indeed, it's most probably a bug. But the scary thing is, that these bugs in Windows Update tend to happen more often recently, and it coincides with the new policy of MS of not allowing users to decline updates anymore. Perhaps too much coincidence?

Re:Before you get your knickers in a bunch

[dow]

I don't think a bug, but I don't think removing this software is a bad thing. The software in a few cases hits the hardware for data, probably in a fairly low level way. If the behavior of windows has changed, there is the potential for damage. Using one of those apps listed, cpuz, I left my Win10 computer needing a hard reset a couple of times. I upgraded to a new version and it is fine, but would have appreciated a warning or something as if I had been doing anything important at the time I launched cpuz the first time, I could have lost information.

Re:Before you get your knickers in a bunch

[silviuc]

They pulled the ISOs. Last time I checked, Windows Update will still download and attempt to install it.
On my system it just refuses to install... so I guess I'm safe, for now.

Re:Before you get your knickers in a bunch

[AmiMoJo]

If you look at the list of affected programs it is obvious why they are being removed. They all install low level drivers. The hardware monitoring/inventory programs use drivers to query devices directly (normal apps can't read the EEPROM on my memory DIMMs, for example) and the anti-virus software uses them to hook in to the OS at a deep level. Those drivers might break when the kernel is updated, so they uninstall those apps.

It's not a bug, it's a feature to ensure that upgrades on machines with tricky anti-virus and nasty DRM/copy protection drivers don't result in an unbootable system. Overzealous perhaps, but it's obvious what the intent is.

Re:Before you get your knickers in a bunch

[agressiv]

Build 1511 was *intended* by Microsoft to be a refresh, not an update.

We were warned of this by our Microsoft reps over a month ago. I gave them shit because I told them "what happened to Windows 10 being the last version of Windows you'll ever install?", they said Build 1511 would be.

I'll believe it when I (don't) see it.

Re:Before you get your knickers in a bunch

[JoeCommodore]

Why not clearly state your intent and then ASK the user if they accept before removing critical shit like anti-virus?

heh, because you probably already did when you clicked "accept" to install Windows 10.

Re:Before you get your knickers in a bunch

[Ol Olsoc]

Before you get your knickers in a bunch: this is most likely just a bug, not intentional.

So you take the "Stay Calm and BOHICA" approach, eh?

This is just the sort of fuckup that Microsoft updates have always done. Only made worse because forcing them on people increased the screwed up computer base.

Re:Before you get your knickers in a bunch

[phantomfive]

Before you get your knickers in a bunch: this is most likely just a bug,

That doesn't particularly make me feel better about Microsoft......

Re:Before you get your knickers in a bunch

[basscomm]

It's my computer, so the only one who gets to decide what software is installed on it is me.

... until you agree to the Win10 EULA.

Which I didn't do. That was a bridge too far, and it pushed me out of the Windows ecosystem entirely. Yeah, it sucks that I can no longer play a large portion of games in my Steam library, for example (which is bloated beyond belief with stuff I'll probably never get to anyway thanks to indie bundles and Steam sales), but that's a sunk cost, and I have a big enough console game backlog over a dozen or so systems (going back to the NES) that I'm not going to be wanting for video games to play any time soon.

Re:Before you get your knickers in a bunch

[TimothyDavis]

Before you get your knickers in a bunch: this is most likely just a bug, not intentional.

The Catalyst Control Center thing isn't a bug. Windows removes the display driver on upgrade (and thus CCC if installed), and downloads the latest driver from Windows Update after the upgrade. There are potentially scenarios where the OEM posted the Win10 driver to WU without CCC bundled, but otherwise most users will get the latest driver with CCC enabled.

Re:Before you get your knickers in a bunch

[jonwil]

Windows 10 must be doing things differently then. Last time I let Windows Update on my Windows 7 machine install GPU drivers for my Nvidia card, it uninstalled GeForce Experience and all the other Nvidia stuff.

Re:Before you get your knickers in a bunch

[Waccoon]

Because uninstalling and disabling are the same thing.

Because uninstalling forcibly and warning people are the same thing.

Because good ideas and bad ideas are the same thing.

Re:No one ever lost their job for choosing Microso

[driblio]

Because EULA

Why complain about a "feature"?

[Anonymous Coward]

As far as I can tell, Windows 10 is the Microsoft play to become Google or Facebook on your desktop. In effect, you choose to run their code and in exchange they spy on you and sell all the info they get to the highest bidder. Microsoft clearly saw that investors are seeing bigger gains from non-manufacturing companies that just spy on uses and sell the info, and they've decided that as the OS itself they can do it better than anybody else.

Once you choose to run an OS that owns you, vacuums-up your every keystroke, mouse action, and utterance within microphone range and that routinely phones-home and auto-installs/auto-removes software, the auto-disabling of various applications is just another bullet-point on the features list. You are now the submissive; Microsoft is your dominant. If you wanted to complain, you should have done so before clicking on the "Accept" button of the EULA. Microsoft does not place a "safe word" in that EULA does it? Enjoy the ride to the software version of the Folsom St parade!

Re: Why complain about a "feature"?

[Anonymous Coward]

You realise you've just done the BDSM equivalent of gay shaming?

There's nothing "wrong" with being submissive or dominant, and a healthy D/s relationship is based on continuous communication and ongoing consent. Microsoft isn't regularly checking in that users are still ok with having their data grabbed or providing any aftercare. These are the hallmarks of an abusive relationship, which are hardly exclusive to BDSM practitioners.

Re:Why complain about a "feature"?

[hyades1]

You nailed it, my friend! When you tie this level of invasiveness with Free World governments that have enshrined in law their "right" to go to Microsoft, Google, Facebook and such, and just take whatever data they want (then forbid the company from advising anybody that they've turned over literally everything), it's a good reason to just go somewhere else for an OS.

I've been around since Win3.1. Win10 will never go on any computer I own.

It's not that I lead any kind of an interesting life, but I place a high value on my privacy, and have little trust in powerful organizations that are so intent on turning me into a marketable commodity with only the rights and freedoms which suit them at the moment.

Re:Why complain about a "feature"?

[lexman098]

To be fair, Google does not sell your info to anyone.

The last Windows version ever.

[Thanatiel]

The only reason I (still) use W10 is games (more than 300, in Steam only). I have every second of using it.
As soon as there are enough high budgets games running on Linux, I'll finally get rid of it for a systemd-free linux (Manjaro-openrc comes to mind).
I've good hopes that SteamOS will lead us outside of the Windows era.
Microsoft was right : Windows 10 is the last Windows version ... ever.

Re:The last Windows version ever.

[Thanatiel]

People have been saying a lot of things.
Now there is a concrete drive.
Steam is the biggest shop. SteamOS is their gaming system and it's a Linux
If it picks up it's a strong money incentive for developers, as any traditional console would be.
If you take into account a lot of AAA games are already developped for a Unix/openGL system (PS4) I don't think luck will be much of a factor.

Re:The last Windows version ever.

[Dins]

I know you're just trolling, but I'll bite. I'm 45 and have been gaming actually since I was 12. You can have my games when you pry them from my cold dead fingers. I also live about 3,000 miles away from my mom's basement.

Re:The last Windows version ever.

[cfalcon]

This is incorrect for two reasons.

A correct statement would be "There is not much incentive for game devs to move to Linux when people are NOT buying Linux games.". That's very different.

Second, he's not a social movement, he's a gamer looking for a better platform to play games on. If all of us on this website never bought another Windows game, that doesn't tell the company anything- you would need a huge movement, one that was vocal enough and had enough members- and that's a steep obstacle to just play some games.

Your suggestion that he abandon his gaming platform is not actionable or reasonable.

Re:The last Windows version ever.

[cfalcon]

> games? Seriously, how old are you? 12?
> Do you still live in a basement?

I prefer to think of my whole house as a type of basement!

Re:The last Windows version ever.

[spire3661]

The Steam controller is an attempt to make some of the functions of a keyboard available on a controller. ITs not a keyboard killer by any stretch, its just an option. My hand-built Steam Machine has a Steam Controller, an Xbox One controller, a kb/m and a Flight Stick attached to it. You missed the point of the controller completely. I dont play games on my work computer, i dont do work on my gaming computer...

Microsoft, you have done well...

[Anonymous Coward]

... in making me not want to ever upgrade to future Windows. I guess when I upgrade my hardware in the upcoming months, and re-install Windows 7, I'll be toggling Windows Updates off.

Re:Microsoft, you have done well...

[Anonymous Coward]

... in making me not want to ever upgrade to future Windows. I guess when I upgrade my hardware in the upcoming months, and re-install Windows 7, I'll be toggling Windows Updates off.

And the botnet operators / malware makers etc. will rejoice.

Re:Microsoft, you have done well...

[Anonymous Coward]

You need to do more than turn updates off

https://www.safer-networking.o...

Also I have had windows update mysteriously enable itself 3 times on my Windows 7 install ever since I disabled it when the telemetry was back ported to 7.

Re:Microsoft, you have done well...

[hyades1]

I haven't used this, so please exercise due skepticism, but I've heard this is excellent for solving the problem you describe:

http://blog.ultimateoutsider.c...

So...

[symes]

This is one post on one forum. I can't find much evidence of this elsewhere. Has it been replicated? My thoughts are that these software were recently installed and the update rolled back to the most recent system restore for some reason. Or that the software was not intentioanlly uninstalled, but the references to in the registry, etc., were inadvertantly over-written. Sure, it could be big bad Microsoft or it could have a very simple explanation.

Re:Take that Microsoft fanbois. Who's the gay one

[Anonymous Coward]

I was a Microsoft fanboi once... while Bill Gates was still on the top.This man may have been evil, but at least he was extremely intelligent and had a vision. After his retirement, Microsoft went rapidly downhill and the end of the slide is nowhere to be seen.

any IT Director or CTO allowing Win 10 is a moron

[Anonymous Coward]

any IT Director or CTO allowing Win 10 to be installed in a corporate networks is a is a moron and must be removed from his post at once.

Re:When to stop?

[Cley Faye]

Kinda what I, and others, did. I'm still in Windows 7 because "it was there", but I already struggle to keep it "user experience enhancement" free from Windows Update. When someone asks me for help on a W10 system, I give it a quick glance, and if it can't be fixed in two mouseclicks (most of the time it can... some people just don't get computers) I just say "I don't know anything about W10."
I slowly started to install some Ubuntu (for ease of use) on my parents' computers, and that fits most of the requirements they have: internet, flash games, video, music.
Only "niches" left for Windows are some games and stubborn business. But as time pass, the game requirement become less and less relevant, and the business thing usually work in either a VM or a pro computer dedicated to this.

issue with ESET software has been resolved

[Aryeh Goretsky]

Hello,

The problem with the Windows 10 Build 10586 (aka v1511, TH2) installer detecting versions of ESET's software that are compatible with Windows 10 as not being compatible has been fixed by Microsoft. Simply allow the installer to connect to the Internet for the latest updates and it will download an update that allows is to recognize all compatible versions of ESET's software.

Customers who were on the latest builds of ESET's software (v9.0.318 for consumer, v6.2.2033 for enterprise) were never affected by this, but customers who had older--but still Windows 10 compatible--builds did have there versions flagged when Build 10586 of Windows 10 was installed.

For more information, see the following E SET knowledgebase article: http://support.eset.com/kb3733...

Regards,

Aryeh Goretsky

Re:issue with ESET software has been resolved

[simplypeachy]

What good would asking do, if the user chose "Keep software" and it killed the OS? Looks to me like most/all of the software used drivers of some sort, which means it's not a leap of faith to assume there were problems (or the potential for them) in keeping them.

Re:issue with ESET software has been resolved

[simplypeachy]

Oh crikey, you're here as well?! Is there no safe place left? :-D

Spy software on hard drives?

[Viol8]

Unless they can somehow embed binaries for ALL OS's as well as Windows and for different types of CPU (ARM for example) and find a way to launch and run the software behind the OS's or hypervisors back, then I won't be putting my tin foil hat on anytime soon. If it works by the HD somehow injecting hooks into any binary launched I reckon it'll be spotted pretty quickly.

Just what I want (Something like it)

[Peter (Professor) Fo]

My sister's new Acer laptop came with a slew of bloatware. I want a program that will remove it all with a couple of clicks rather than lengthy add-remove-programs-reboot etc.

Re:Just what I want (Something like it)

[Anonymous Coward]

PC Decrapifier.
Free for personal use. Goes through add/remove programs, presents them all, runs all of their uninstallers in sequence. One click per thing you want to remove and you're done. One reboot at the end.

Re:Just what I want (Something like it)

[bmorency]

The way you have to uninstall programs in windows is so tedious. You have to uninstall one program at a time and click though all the wizards. It would be awesome if you could just uncheck all the programs you want to remove and it would be all automated. Linux does the install/remove process right.

Re:Just what I want (Something like it)

[drinkypoo]

My sister's new Acer laptop came with a slew of bloatware. I want a program that will remove it all with a couple of clicks

Some Acer factory restore CDs come in two parts and if you skip the second one they don't install the bloatware. I have no idea if yours is one of those. But if you didn't make at least two copies of the factory restore image before doing anything else, fail fail

Note that I have made this mistake before and paid (literally) for it

Re:Surveillance reduces sales and corrupts democra

[drinkypoo]

Question: Other producers of spyware have been put in prison. How does Microsoft CEO Satya Nadella avoid a court case?

By being asked to do it by the government and then served a NSL about the capabilities?

its not your computer anymore you dummy

[Anonymous Coward]

and you will never boot with the same software as the day before, its going to be something new every boot, including drivers, will your computer work today?

but if something fails, and it will because you are not suposed to change drivers if everything is already working, thats asking for trouble, then when it fails its your motherfucking problem, if you go to cortana "hey woman, help me" she will do nothing at all. Its only your computer when you have problems. She wont even make you a sandwich while you google it. Its the most useless woman in history, thats quite an achievement

windows 10 is windows millenium, waaaay too many bugs, waaay too unpredictable (had a friend that used to lose his partition, and he only had one partition!, every 9 months with windows millenium). But they figured out a trick to get tards to install it, good for them i guess. Bad for the tards

this is sorta oftopic but, how come the tards dont have like the equivalent to sjw behind them trying to help them? they could certainly use some help. i mean, they are tards after all...

Re:Surveillance reduces sales and corrupts democra

[reboot246]

"In a democracy, citizens are allowed to participate in government."

See? You have it assbackwards right there. The citizens formed the government and gave it limited powers. We've let the government usurp our power over the years because of uneducated and apathetic voters. The evidence that we've fallen too far already is your own statement. There is no hope left if everybody is hopelessly ignorant of their own power over government.

Re: No one ever lost their job for choosing Micros

[Lumpy]

Only at incompetent companies.

If the CIO is making a decision on the OS to use, then get the hell out of that place now.

It didn't uninstall but screwed many settings

[ciantic]

For me it didn't uninstall anything, it however screwed many settings in registry, e.g. keyboard layout and user specific settings. It seems like it "upgrades" by installing the ISO on background when restarting the computer once it's downloaded it.

I don't think Windows 10 in general is stable yet, for instance Start menu stops working sometimes, "Modern" apps stopped working (Calculator, Photo viewer etc.), Edge browser window does not appear anymore and Windows Update Settings does not open.

I get some of the features back if I create new Windows account, but not everything. It looks like I have to do clean install sometime in near future, what a wonderful upgrade.

As for uninstalling CCC

[Truekaiser]

You do know they discontinued that version of their control panel. Renamed it radeon software crimson and put in a whole bunch of updates and fixes.
Windows 10 updates drivers and thus it would install this new version while removing the old.

Windows 2000 was my last version. Here's why:

[Qbertino]

Same has been said by many a people about Vista, Windows 7, Windows 8 and Windows 8.1. Truth is at the end of the day when MS have a small or any screwup the open-source crowd are so divided among themselves that they can never seize the opportunity.

The last Windows I used was Windows 2000. They crossed the line with me with forced registration and remote disabling "features".
Why anyone would use a OS that has this for anything mission-critical, is totally beyond me.

In my book Windows is a Toy, an elaborate gaming bios, and the only reason to use it is if you're into frontline hardcore PC gaming or need to use a professional application that only runs on Windows - such as Solid Works for engineers or something like that.

I've been riding Mac OS X since 2004 - for professional Flash development back then - and x86 Linux since 1999. Nowadays there is absolutely nothing aside of perhaps some neat Photoshop plugins that Linux and FOSS can't offer that I need for my professional work (Dev, Software Architect and Consultant). I expect that to improve even more with Gimp 3.0. I've got no incentive to replace my broken Mac Mini now - albeit HW & SW integration with Apple is still top-of-the-line.

However, I *do* still use a MS product: The last iteration of the XBox 360. The system mature to the marrow and has dirt cheap top gametitles out of the bargain bin. Just added Diablo 3 to my collection for 20 euros last saturday. Neat.

Conculsion:
I hope Windows, the abysmally shitty Outlook Groupware, Exchange, MS Office and all those ancient crappy MS monsters die in a fire and/or gets squished by Google and Chrome OS like a bug. They would deserve it.

Google has users by a leash too, but at least I get all their stuff and services for free and have an interest in keeping them running and synced across devices no matter what.
Which is why I recommend Chrome OS over Windows whenever a n00b asks me for advice.

My 2 cents.

Re:Windows 2000 was my last version. Here's why:

[chmod a x mojo]

And yet OS X does the same thing that is being complained about here.

When upgrading from 10.x to 10.x+1 incompatible programs get moved to the "/Incompatible Software" folder of the OS drive. There is no warning until after you finish the upgrade, at least there wasn't for me when I went from 10.9 > 10.10

The real annoyance I have with Apple and OS X is that unlike MS, unless you have a Time Machine backup there is pretty much no way to easily step back to the systems prior state after an upgrade... unless you re-install the prior release and lose all applications and settings you had up to that point.

At lease with MS they have system restore points that sometimes work, and now the Windows.old folder ( that worked for me at least ) that you can back out the Win10 "upgrade" from.

Re:Windows 2000 was my last version. Here's why:

[jedidiah]

So MacOS "does the same thing" but doesn't exactly "do the same thing". There's a BIG difference between blowing something away entirely and just moving it off to the side.

If anything, it looks like Apple took the arrogance level down a notch or two.

Re:Windows 2000 was my last version. Here's why:

[macs4all]

And yet OS X does the same thing that is being complained about here.

If you're talking about Spying; you're dead wrong. Apple has realized that Privacy is a "brand differentiator", and so has avoided the baked-in Spyware trend completely on both OS X and iOS. This is one of the biggest reasons why Mac sales are up globally 16% Year over Year.

And we primarily have Microsoft (and Windows 10) to thank for that.

Prove me wrong, or STFU.

Re:Windows 2000 was my last version. Here's why:

[macs4all]

So MacOS "does the same thing" but doesn't exactly "do the same thing". There's a BIG difference between blowing something away entirely and just moving it off to the side.

If anything, it looks like Apple took the arrogance level down a notch or two.

I'm glad you could figure out what "chmod" was talking about. I thought he was talking about OS X Spying on you, like Windows 10.

By the way, what WAS he talking about?

Re:Windows 2000 was my last version. Here's why:

[chmod a x mojo]

Apple has had their own missteps with regards to privacy concerns. Even if that wasn't the point, at all I might add, of my prior post.

Yosemite, default action (can be turned off at least), direct from Apple: https://support.apple.com/kb/P...

Everything gets sent to Apple servers, and it's on by default after upgrading to Yosemite.

I'm glad you could figure out what "chmod" was talking about. I thought he was talking about OS X Spying on you, like Windows 10.

By the way, what WAS he talking about?

Try reading the post, it's pretty damn obvious.

Re:Windows 2000 was my last version. Here's why:

[macs4all]

Everything gets sent to Apple servers

if you define "everything" as your Spotlight searches. And as you point out, it's very easy to opt out.

The real annoyance I have with Apple and OS X is that unlike MS, unless you have a Time Machine backup there is pretty much no way to easily step back to the systems prior state after an upgrade... unless you re-install the prior release and lose all applications and settings you had up to that point.

Which is EXACTLY what happens in Windows when you use a System Restore Point. And as you say, they "Sometimes work"; in my experience, about 25 percent of the time.

...and now the Windows.old folder ( that worked for me at least ) that you can back out the Win10 "upgrade" from.

LOL! Talk about damning with faint praise! Even Microsoft knows that Windows 10 is SO shitty that they HAVE to give you a way out!

Here's a thought: Howabout not changing 80% of the UI in one version-change? Howabout not building an OS that bends over backwards to soy on you at every single turn?

Compared to that, OS X is a model of good User Interface design (I.e, there are FAR more similarities between the 1984 version of MacOS and El Capitan than there are between Windows 7 and 8), and Apple is the bastion of liberty (easily-defeatable Spotlight Suggestions vs. a SECRET list of 100 URLs that your every KEYSTROKE and MOUSE-CLICK get sent to).

Sounds like a lawsuit waiting to happen

[joncombe]

I have big concerns with Windows 10 so have not updated to it yet. Those are primarily around the forced mandatory updates. We've all seen drivers and software stop working when you install a new version of Windows. With Windows 10 you are in effect installing a new version of Windows every time it updates. So you no longer have any certainty that the devices and software you require will keep on working. Now it seems Microsoft will automatically remove anything it thinks is incompatible without even offering the choice. Nice. If I was the 3rd party software vendor I'd pretty miffed. I think it is only a matter of time before Microsoft is taking to court for this. It is not their job to decide what software someone can or cannot run on their own PC.

Netgear Genie also removed

[Not-a-Neg]

Other than that (see subj.) I have not had any problems with 1511. Some people reported issues with preferences and settings changing, but I didn't experience that with any of my 3 computers.

Removing AMD's Catalyst Control Center

[EvilSS]

Oh well at least it's doing some good.

The Linux Switch

[Jason Levine]

I've been putting off my Windows 10 upgrade because, as great as it seemed like the OS was going to be, the spyware and now the uninstalling of programs has completely put me off. I have a spare laptop (Windows Vista, I believe) that I mainly use for Kodi and to share out my external hard drive. I'm now considering installing Linux on it as a test. I'm not sure which distribution to use. Which one would be the best to migrate from Windows for Kodi/network file sharing? Would it allow me to boot the laptop back into Windows (in case I needed to access something from there)? Would it support USB remote controls/keyboards like this one?

If this install succeeds, my main laptop (used for web development, web browsing, document creation with OpenOffice, and light image editing) could be next.

Re:The Linux Switch

[Cornwallis]

Use Linux Mint and you can still use your Windows in a VM with Virtualbox. And dump OpenOffice for LibreOffice while you're at it. Better all around.

Re: The Linux Switch

[Jason Levine]

I actually did switch one of my systems to LibreOffice. I haven't gotten around to switching the rest, but I do like it better than OpenOffice. OpenOffice is better than Microsoft Office, though.

yes, it uninstalled Cisco VPN Client

[CaptainPhoton]

I am using Cisco VPN Client v5.0.07.0440, which needs the same minor registry edit on Windows 10 that it did on Windows 8. On Windows 10, it also requires installation of a Dell SonicWall driver before it will work correctly. Once it's set up, it works great.

When I installed the Fall update for Windows, it automatically uninstalled this Cisco VPN Client citing compatibility issues. After I reinstalled, it worked perfectly again. I am not sure how Microsoft makes the decision to uninstall something automatically. Even though the configuration is not supported by the vendor anymore, there are many people using this legacy Cisco VPN software.

This is an example of Microsoft uninstalled some desktop software that was working perfectly fine. At least they didn't block the reinstall!

Laugh

[koan]

Welcome to what Win10 is really all about.

Good by Microsoft

[Gim Tom]

One more of many reasons I do not plan to upgrade to Windows 10. In fact I have stopped at 7 turned off automatic updates and am dual booting a couple of Linux distros for evaluation. I don't need or want the stupidity of Windows 10 and I am telling everyone that will listen to me as geek in residence to avoid it. Since many of my relatives and friends have used me as a free PC service tech for decades I first ask what version of windows they have. If it is 10 I tell them sorry they will have to get help from Microsoft.

Proprietary

[Anonymous Coward]

Better get used to the idea that a proprietary operating system is just that. On the bright side, the owner has a commercial incentive to make it stable and optimize performance. On the flip side, they can do with it whatever they want that doesn't breach their contract with you. Anyone here have a contract with Microsoft that was breached? BTW, the EULA reads that they can uninstall software if it makes the system "unstable".

All your files are exactly where you left them

[blbordelon66]

It doesn't 'uninstall' programs so much as it reinstalls Windows, then attempts to re-setup previously installed programs. Sometimes it's successful, too many times it's not, making it look like it uninstalled something that in fact it just wasn't able to set back up. Even if it's 100% successful though, it leaves you with the guilty-child-sounding message, "All your files are exactly where you left them", which is funny in and of itself.

Thank you, and When will Beta be over?

[WheezyJoe]

Thank you for setting us straight. But I would like to politely remind you that the beta period for Windows 10 was supposed to end last Summer, and Windows 10 is now supposed to be in general release. This kind of mess shouldn't be happening.

Those of us with longer memories remember that this is Microsoft standard procedure with its operating systems: beta test via the general public for at least a year, including taking liberties to break people's machines in the interest of getting the OS right. This happened with Win 2000 until the first or second SP, XP until the second SP, and Windows 7 was kind of an SP for Vista (plus allowing time for hardware and drivers to catch up).

The reason XP and 7 stick around is because they each have evolved into something solid and reliable, but they got that way through a painful first year or so, after which Microsoft stopped adding features and just stuck with fixing critical bugs. So, warts and all, XP and 7 are stable, and you can write software and drivers for them and pretty much count on them working into the foreseeable future.

With 10, however, Microsoft is not only chasing the desktop, but also this crazy goal of grabbing the phone and tablet market. So how long should the Windows community expect Windows 10 to re-arrange itself whenever Microsoft feels like it? Windows 10 Home Edition (and Pro? can't remember) is the first OS I know of that actually forces updates upon people, kind of like the androids turning red in "I, Robot". Sure, this eliminates the problem of users who stick with buggy, malware-prone versions so common with XP, but more thoughtful users (and IT managers) now have to consider whether 10 is going to render something unusable, literally overnight with a mandatory update. Microsoft is apparently aware of this problem, which is why they permit Enterprise users to shut off automatic updates.

But non-Enterprise users want a stable, reliable platform, too. Right now, that means sticking with 7. My guess is that's part of Microsoft's master plan, why 7 is still officially supported, whereas people with 10 are still considered "early adopters" who should expect to go along with all the updates and spyware intended to "improve the Windows 10 experience".

Would be nice to know when beta is really over, hopefully before 7 goes the way of XP.

Re:Thank you, and When will Beta be over?

[Cederic]

But I would like to politely remind you that the beta period for Windows 10 was supposed to end last Summer, and Windows 10 is now supposed to be in general release

Wouldn't it be more useful to remind someone that works for Microsoft?

Re:When to stop?

[Ol Olsoc]

I slowly started to install some Ubuntu (for ease of use) on my parents' computers, and that fits most of the requirements they have: internet, flash games, video, music.

I've been doing the same with Mint. Ease of use, the interface is familiar for ex-windows users, and no adware games. And almost no complaints, only one was when Mint changed versions and the updates didn't find their repository. That took a few seconds to fix.

Windows machines were always some sort of fight, and it appears they will remain as such.

Re:No one ever lost their job for choosing Microso

[quetwo]

And what alternatives are there? Don't say Linux -- because if you look at the overall ecosystem, things don't "just work", and every updates breaks just about everything else...

ReactOS

[unixisc]

They really ought to have a full time team work on this. As I said previously, have 2 versions - a 32-bit drop in for XP, and a 64-bit drop in for Windows 7. Lose the meme of a moving target - there is no reason they have to chase Windows 8 or Windows 10.

For NTFS, which is patent protected, define an extended superset of the file system, and make that the default file system for the new OS in a way that will be transparent to native win32 or win64 applications. But please go full steam ahead on this.

Re:ReactOS

[Scarletdown]

For NTFS, which is patent protected, define an extended superset of the file system

Shouldn't the patents be expiring on that sometime real soon, considering NTFS has been around for over 2 decades?

Re:ReactOS

[unixisc]

I dunno. But on the Reactos website, they stated that the reason they can't support NTFS is that Microsoft had patent rights over that. It was a while since I last saw that, but if that is no longer protected, ReactOS can implement that. If however it is, I was suggesting that they implement a superset of the file system, such as making it a 64-bit file system, or some such thing

Re:ReactOS

[hawkinspeter]

NTFS isn't patent protected. If I'm wrong, just let me know what patents are active because I can't find any and my Linux system is perfectly happy reading and writing to NTFS.

Re:Windows 10 is a Virus

[PPH]

your PC

What ever made you think it was yours? It belongs to Microsoft.

Time for 7 again

[einsteinbutthole]

That makes sense. I could have sworn I had installed CPU-Z. I guess I did.

Re:No one ever lost their job for choosing Microso

[jedidiah]

Peddle your FUD some place else.

Things do "just work" and updates are entirely optional. It's only Microsoft products that need to be patched daily to deal with the virus du jour.

Re:What difference does it make?

[GuB-42]

You can backup your settings, update the offending software, plenty of things...

Re: No one ever lost their job for choosing Micros

[painandgreed]

Only at incompetent companies.

If the CIO is making a decision on the OS to use, then get the hell out of that place now.

Well, companies have to make money, and that means doing their job and doing it better than the other guy. It's not that some top level management says, "We will use Windows 10!" but that in order to fulfill the business requirements and get a decent ROI, they will have to run certain software. That software will have to perform certain functions and will have dependencies, especially if coming from a vendor since most software is not written in house. Out of that, they're going to have to go with the most common denominator of an OS (sometime least common denominator) which will most likely eventually be Win10 because any other choice would cost more money that it would save.

But don't worry, I suspect that enterprise will be able to get out of a lot of the things we don't like about Win10 such as the spyware. There are simply too many legalities that MS would be susceptible to if there wasn't from things like SEC rules and HIPAA laws. Of course, the solution for such will be as it is with even many simple things that should be a check box for home users, "Go set up a group policy in your Active Domain".

This actually gets a bit worse...

[bobmajdakjr]

I work almost exclusively over RDP. I have a gaming machine at home on my desk of which I never sit. I go to the office, RDP into home. I go home, I go to the bedroom and RDP to the other room. Whatever. But here is the thing, after an update, the first RDP connection in sits on the blue screen showing your avatar for about 10 minutes (or however long your PC takes to do the last second steps of the updates). It tells you nothing about what is going on, and any prompts that you would normally see get auto OK'd while you are stuck in the login spinning animation. So not only will your shit get uninstalled (I have seen this as well, and not just the latest release) but you won't even know, because you won't be shown the progress prompt during the RDP connection.

If this were a car...

[Zaphoddd]

Toyota techs come by your house in the middle of the night.
Unlock the car. Install a fix on the engine. Change the steering ratio. Remove the radio.
Lock up and leave.

You wouldn't mind that would you?

>>The affected PC had Speccy, a hardware information program, installed and Windows 10 notified me after the upgrade that the
>> software had been removed from the system because of incompatibilities.

Re:When to stop?

[tepples]

I slowly started to install some Ubuntu (for ease of use) on my parents' computers, and that fits most of the requirements they have: internet, flash games, video, music.

After you have defenestrated a PC in this manner, how do you handle it when someone asks for help getting suspend to work again? "I closed the lid and opened it again, and now it's stuck on a black screen."

Re:When to stop?

[Cley Faye]

I do that on desktop computers; they don't handle "closing the lid" too well.
But on one laptop suspend did cause troubles (a business laptop), I spent some time looking through the log what module caused the issue and added a pre suspend script that rmmod it before suspend; so far it worked well.
I suppose I was lucky in this regard, but I was ready to look a bit into ACPI tables in case something really bad wasn't already handled by the kernel. Didn't have to though.

Re:No one ever lost their job for choosing Microso

[Bratch]

I've had plenty of stuff not "just work" on Ubuntu and Mint installations. I guess you could pay a bit more and go Apple Mac, might be worth it.

See ya MS

[Anonymous Coward]

I have worked as a MS platform developer for over 15 years. While I do applaud some of their actions on the development front, I fundamentally disagree with what I was seeing in their OS platform (one UI for all platforms, mandatory data collection) and their licensing hijinks. So I finally made the move... my home machines run Mint Cinnamon now. When I recently started a new job, I switch to a Mac for the first time since college. Still not a huge Mac fan, but it's a platform to get work done and the hardware (save the keyboard) is reasonably nice.

My wife is perfectly happy and has no issue using Linux. My data is more secure than it has ever been. And I finally kicked the MS habit. Thanks MS for finally making your software so crappy that I couldn't deal with it any more. And I know I am far from the only one.

People that understand are unaffected.

[Anonymous Coward]

Can you hear me now?

http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2015/08/microsoft-has-no-plans-to-tell-us-whats-in-windows-patches/
http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2015/09/leaks-show-that-microsoft-writes-release-notes-so-why-cant-it-publish-them/

https://www.gnu.org/proprietary/malware-microsoft.html
http://www.computerworlduk.com/blogs/open-enterprise/how-can-any-company-ever-trust-microsoft-again-3569376/
http://www.networkworld.com/article/2956574/microsoft-subnet/windows-10-privacy-spyware-settings-user-agreement.html

http://www.technobuffalo.com/2013/08/22/nsa-windows-8-exploit/
http://www.technobuffalo.com/2013/07/11/microsoft-gave-the-nsa-direct-backdoor-access-to-outlook-skype/
http://winsupersite.com/windows-10/how-stop-windows-10-upgrade-downloading-your-system
http://www.extremetech.com/computing/195592-with-windows-10-microsoft-could-move-to-a-subscription-based-model
http://www.extremetech.com/computing/205320-microsoft-windows-10-will-be-the-last-version-of-windows
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5GU5uv28a3I
http://techrights.org/2015/07/31/vista-10-anticompetitive/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwRYyWn7BEo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gghj03J_ri0
http://localghost.org/posts/a-traffic-analysis-of-windows-10
http://www.ghacks.net/2015/08/28/microsoft-intensifies-data-collection-on-windows-7-and-8-systems/

THESE
https://gitlab.com/windowslies/blockwindows
^(have to uncomment the #'s on two url's in the hosts file per latest change)
https://senk9.wordpress.com/checklists/windows-10-privacy-checklist/
^Applies to 7/8/8.1 too.

F-Secure

[legumes]

F-Secure Client Security also got removed... Said it was incompatible with a "Technical Preview". Happened on Windows 10 Enterprise 10240 upgrade to 10586 (1511)

Petition - Stop Pushing Windows 10 Uninvited

[bratwiz]

Sign the Change.Org Petition:

Bad Microsoft! Stop Pushing Windows 10 On Consumers Uninvited!

There is a new Change.Org petition to protest Microsoft's unilateral push of Windows 10 onto consumers whether they want it or not. The petition specifically addresses the issue of Bandwidth and Disk Space consumed, the various Privacy Concerns, the fact that Personal Data is sent out to Microsoft and other "unnamed" third-party entities with little way to Opt Out-- yes, it is possible, but not straight-foward, and it isn't entirely clear whether additional monitoring occurs anyway. This issue is not about whether the Windows 10 Operating System is "good" or "bad" particularly, but specifically protests the manner in which it is forced upon consumers with very little regard for their systems which can be broken by the install, or the problems which can occur afterwards such as with device drivers and whatnot, of the changes in the EULA which make it harder to hold Microsoft accountable for these kinds of actions in the future. This petition is about Microsoft unilaterally taking away consumer choice and forcing their choice onto our computers.

BAD MICROSOFT. YOU SHOULD BE ASHAMED OF YOURSELVES.

You can sign the petition here:

https://www.change.org/p/bill-...

Agree! Win8/10 = crap. Here's how I got Win7 again

[KWTm]

I had similar bad experiences with my work laptop, until I could get Windows 7 on a new laptop.

I was with a small workplace and given a laptop for work, one of those cheap ones you get at the local electronics store. It had Windows 8, a whole host of preloaded crapware, and was incredibly clumsy.

When I complained, I was given a small budget to get my own laptop. I got a refurbished Lenovo Yoga, one of those two-in-one things that could open fold back the screen completely on itself, and pretend to be a tablet if you ignored the keyboard on the back. Conceptually great, but also came with preloaded crapware, the biggest of which was this monstrosity known as Windows 8.

Moreover, there was a big problem for people like me who needed to close up the laptop, tuck it under my arm to walk into the next room, and open it up again without the laptop powering down.

If you held the laptop the wrong way up, the software would detect that you had rotated the screen, try to act like it was an iPad, and turn all the windows 90 degrees, squeezing them into the now-narrower-and-taller screen. The windows would get narrower to fit, but wouldn't grow taller to take up available space on the screen. It also took about 2 seconds for the software to realize that gravity had changed direction. The upshot was that when I walked into the next workroom, sat down, and opened my laptop, the windows would be sideways or upside down for a few seconds, and then rotate to the correct orientation but not size. I actually had to write an AutoHotkey routine to resize windows.

I tried to install Linux on these. I was able to boot from flash USB drive and install, but it would not naturally boot the installed Linux without the USB drive. It refused to boot GRUB and give me a boot selector.

I bemoaned the loss of Windows 7 (which is still a Microsoft product but a lot more predictable and came before the Let's-Make-Windows-A-Tablet-GUI era) and the ubiquity of crapware, until I was given a slightly higher budget to get a Dell laptop after bitter complaining.

Lo! and behold! The Dell Vostro small business laptop was available with Windows 7! It had no crapware, and the BIOS not only allowed but actually defaulted to legacy non-secure boot which allowed me to install Linux. (Some of the BIOS settings actually mentioned Linux: "such-and-such a setting should be used for Ubuntu", the BIOS said.) The Windows 7 must have been through some loophole, because this Dell laptop comes with a "recover disk" for Windows 8 and not Win7 (even though the computer comes with Win7 installed). It comes with a "generate your own recovery disk" software so that you can restore Win7 -- I guess somehow Dell's not allowed to provide a Win7 disk.

I am so happy that I can actually take shelter under Windows 7 and hopefully ride out the Win8/Win10 crapfest until something reasonable comes along. I swear if Linux had anything like AutoHotkey, I'd stop using Windows altogether.

Re:No one ever lost their job for choosing Microso

[Boat Rocker]

You are obviously not speaking from experience on either point. So, who told you that and why do you believe them?