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Google Conducted Hollywood 'Interventions' To Change Look of Computer Scientists (usatoday.com)

theodp writes: Most TV computer scientists are still white men," USA Today reports. "Google wants to change that. Google is calling on Hollywood to give equal screen time to women and minorities after a new study the internet giant funded found that most computer scientists on television shows and in the movies are played by white men. The problem with the hackneyed stereotype of the socially inept, hoodie-clad white male coder? It does not inspire underrepresented groups to pursue careers in computer science, says Daraiha Greene, Google CS in Media program manager, multicultural strategy." According to a Google-funded study conducted by Prof. Stacy L. Smith and the Media, Diversity, & Social Change Initiative at the USC Annenberg School for Communication and Journalism, Google's Computer Science in Media team conducted "CS interventions" with "like-minded people" to create "Google influenced storytelling." The executive summary for a USC study entitled Cracking the Code: The Prevalence and Nature of Computer Science Depictions in Media notes that "Google influenced" TV programs include HBO's Silicon Valley and AMC's Halt and Catch Fire. The USC researchers also note that "non-tech focused programs may offer prime opportunities to showcase CS in unique and counter-stereotypical ways. As the Google Team moves forward in its work with series such as Empire, Girl Meets World, Gortimer Gibbons Life on Normal Street, or The Amazing Adventures of Gumball, it appears the Team is seizing these opportunities to integrate CS into storytelling without a primary tech focus." The study adds, "In the case of certain series, we provided on-going advisement. The Fosters, Miles from Tomorrowland, Halt and Catch Fire, Ready, Jet, Go, The Powerpuff Girls and Odd Squad are examples of this. In addition to our continuing interactions, we engaged in extensive PR and marketing support including social media outreach, events and press."

Google's TV interventions have even spilled over into public education -- one of Google-sponsored Code.org's signature Hour of Code tutorials last December was Gumball's Coding Adventure, inspired by the Google-advised Cartoon Network series, The Amazing Adventures of Gumball. "We need more students around the world pursuing an education in CS, particularly girls and minorities, who have historically been underrepresented in the field," explains a Google CS First presentation for educators on the search giant's Hour of Code partnership with Cartoon Network. "Based on our research, one of the reasons girls and underrepresented minorities are not pursuing computer science is because of the negative perception of computer scientists and the relevance of the field beyond coding." According to a 2015 USC report, President Obama was kept abreast of efforts to challenge media's stereotypical portrayals of women; White House Visitor Records show that USC's Smith, the Google-funded study's lead author, and Google CS Education in Media Program Manager Julie Ann Crommett (now at Disney) were among those present when the White House Council on Women and Girls met earlier that year with representatives of the nation's leading toy makers, media giants, retailers, educators, scientists, the U.S. Dept. of Education, and philanthropists.

644 comments

  1. Well... by argStyopa · · Score: 5, Insightful

    " The problem with the hackneyed stereotype of the socially inept, hoodie-clad white male coder? It does not inspire underrepresented groups to pursue careers in computer science.."
    So it's not INACCURATE, just uninspiring.

    Because *everything* needs to be about achieving purported social justice agendas?

    --
    -Styopa
    1. Re: Well... by ranton · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The fact it is inaccurate was probably considered to obvious to mention explicitly. While those types of developers do exist, they are not the norm. But they are the norm in Hollywood, which is what Google has been trying to fix.

      --
      -- All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. -- Edmund Burke
    2. Re:Well... by lucm · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Because *everything* needs to be about achieving purported social justice agendas?

      Phonies, all of them. They want to feel like they're changing the world, but without leaving the comfortable 6-digit salary and fancy coffee shops ecosystem. You don't see those people signing up to go fight ISIS or even flying to Texas to help people in need. They tweet and facebook that's the extent of their courage and commitment to social justice.

      Fuck those imbeciles. Fuck Google. They're the canary letting us know that society is seriously sick.

      --
      lucm, indeed.
    3. Re: Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because *everything* needs to be about achieving purported social justice agendas?

      Oh? You're upset about messaging in works of fiction, huh?

      Where were you when it was the Hays Code?

    4. Re:Well... by drinkypoo · · Score: 2

      Because *everything* needs to be about achieving purported social justice agendas?

      Have you ever watched a television program? Every episode of every cartoon or sitcom comes with a message. Those messages are often intended to advance cultural development, although they usually are fairly trite and boil down to the golden rule.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    5. Re: Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You are witnessing the decadent end of the west.

      The MOST priveleged people in the richest country on earth claiming to be victims.

      Social Justice and their form of post modernism is poison for the west. In future historians will say "they just gave up"

    6. Re: Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Phonies, all of them. They want to feel like they're changing the world, but without leaving the comfortable 6-digit salary and fancy coffee shops ecosystem.

      Yeah, you are only a legitimate good guy if you go to some exotic foreign locale for a couple of weeks to hand out Bibles like a true missionary. Then come back with your Polaroids.

      You don't see those people signing up to go fight ISIS or even flying to Texas to help people in need.

      Why would you? They don't need to stage a photo op.

      They tweet and facebook that's the extent of their courage and commitment to social justice.

      Don't forget posting rants on Slashdot.

      Fuck those imbeciles. Fuck Google. They're the canary letting us know that society is seriously sick.

      Actually, you're a better example of that, like the Archie Bunker of Slashdot, you are a reliable demonstration of the faults in your mindset.

    7. Re:Well... by Kohath · · Score: 1

      Yes. The social justice religion requires daily devotions. If any part of life is outside the cult leaders' influence, they see that as a threat.

    8. Re:Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, they're the sickness. They killed the canary for being the wrong color and singing the wrong tune.

    9. Re:Well... by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Fuck those imbeciles. Fuck Google. They're the canary letting us know that society is seriously sick.

      Google is more like the vet, holding the dead canary. You should have noticed when it was sick, not waited until it was dead and then waited for google to come around and notice there were flies on it.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    10. Re: Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh poor Kohath, still threatened by the dreaded specter of the "Social Justice" bogeyman. Why you still haven't gotten over Doctor M'benga or Sergeant Kinchloe.

      How dare the forces of Google inflict further trauma upon you by not wanting depictions of Computer Scientists to all be hoodie-wearing college dropouts. Why next, people will be objecting to the Robertson family of Duck Dynasty and make them give up their pretense of being an unshaven bunch of backwoods Rednecks.

    11. Re:Well... by vlad30 · · Score: 1

      Many engineers say they were inspired by star treks Scotty a white guy the show itself showed other ethnic origins all working together. Scotty might have been the 60's version of a geek but in the show anybody could have been anything they wanted and that was more important.

      --
      Your'e all thinking it, I just said it for you
    12. Re: Well... by Mashiki · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The MOST priveleged people in the richest country on earth claiming to be victims.

      Well when you have everything, you need something to feel special. Of course their bullshit hurts everyone else like that 40 year old guy who lives with his parents, never mind he broke his back ~20 years ago, can't hold down a job and is still fighting workmans comp. Those special people need monies for a sex-change instead! Oh and safe spaces because someone telling them to shut the fuck up hurts their feelings.

      Social Justice and their form of post modernism is poison for the west. In future historians will say "they just gave up"

      It is, but people aren't going to go down without a fight over it either. And the socjus mobs aren't going to go down without a fight too, and you can see just how infected some parts of society are. You can see it with the little antifa shit mobs that believe "society is ripe for a commie revolution' while they label anyone who's to the right of marx and lennin as nazi's. At the same time that the media is cheering them on, but notice how that's strangely changed? How EU and NA media changed their tune all of a sudden and they really were the bad guys.

      Shit times, no matter which way you cut it. But I'd rather see this garbage purged sooner then later--especially since it's gone on longer then I figured it would. People were getting pissed off ~18 years ago over it, guess it took until it started reaching mainstream and it impacting day-to-day life for people to have enough.

      --
      Om, nomnomnom...
    13. Re: Well... by nitehawk214 · · Score: 2

      I was going to speak in support of the GP post, but then there are assholes like you.

      You do realize you hurt your own movement, right?

      --
      I'm a good cook. I'm a fantastic eater. - Steven Brust
    14. Re: Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I saw a video a few weeks back that made a lot of sense: women are more risk averse than men.

      So the solution is for Google to stop going after the best of the best. Cut everyone's salary by 10, and hire 10 times more people with no expectations that any of them will be more than middling. Rather than keep all the jobs in high risk high reward silicon valley, set up low cost work sites in every major city, McDonald's style.

      So, what have we accomplished here?

      1. You don't need to risk moving to California.

      2. You don't need to risk getting a degree you might not like.

      3. You don't need to risk applying for a top job where you have to take all sorts of crazy tests to prove you're the best of the best of the best.

      You have a career at Google as a normal, boring, low risk low reward career. You can apply for it out of high school and have a good chance of getting one of the many Google jobs in every city.

      How far is Google willing to get more women in tech? Are they willing to do this?

    15. Re: Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      White men, especially rich white men, have always been victims.

      Just look at how all of their slaves were stolen from them after the Civil War!

    16. Re: Well... by doctorvo · · Score: 5, Insightful

      While those types of developers do exist, they are not the norm. But they are the norm in Hollywood, which is what Google has been trying to fix.

      And by "fixing" you mean replacing an inaccurate stereotype with social-justice propaganda that is even more removed from reality?

    17. Re:Well... by doctorvo · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Phonies, all of them. They want to feel like they're changing the world, but without leaving the comfortable 6-digit salary and fancy coffee shops ecosystem.

      These phonies are nothing new either. Read Tom Wolfe's Radical Chic.

    18. Re: Well... by Kohath · · Score: 1

      Someday perhaps you will realize that the life you spent being mean to people and hating people because they're not like you was a sad, wasted life.

      Also, I don't know those references. I guess they're from some TV show?

    19. Re:Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      These guys just don't get it either. Wasn't there just an article the other day about Hollyweird's worst summer in ages? Better get used to it, because as long as you keep shoving social agenda garbage into every rehashed reboot you come out with, it's all downhill from here. Your so-called 'social-justice' is poison and the people will vote with their wallets.

    20. Re: Well... by Kohath · · Score: 2, Insightful
    21. Re: Well... by knightghost · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Seems like it. Google used to at least try to follow "Do no evil" but seems to have completely thrown that away in the last year.

    22. Re:Well... by PolygamousRanchKid+ · · Score: 1

      You should have noticed when it was sick, not waited until it was dead and then waited for google to come around and notice there were flies on it.

      "When I bought it 'alf an hour ago Google assured me that its total lack of movement was due to its being tired and shagged out after a long squawk."

      --
      Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
    23. Re: Well... by Immerman · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Or, you know, something more accurate?

      Add in a bunch of different Asian ethnicities, a smattering of other races, a few women who are actually competent and opinionated enough to hold their own, rather than just being eye-candy. And the lot of them spread across the social-competency spectrum from the smart-dressing player to the morbidly obese cheeto-powered coder., instead of predominantly representing the least-attractive stereotypes.

      Seriously - why would you favor the current grossly inaccurate and frankly insulting representation of computer geekdom unless you aspire to be a member of the unhealthy albino sausage-party that is Hollywood's representation?

      And as a corollary, why would any teenager who *doesn't* want to be part of that distasteful stereotype even consider that as a career track unless they're already fascinated by computers to begin with? These are just kids we're talking about, mostly extremely image-conscious, and expected to choose a career path based on media portrayal and far too little solid information.

      --
      --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
    24. Re: Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      You're suggesting that computer geeks aren't primarily male, or primarily white/asian... In other words, you're a delusional moron.

    25. Re: Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Yeah, give me a break. You know what inspires prople to study coding? AN INTEREST IN CODING. Really tired of these surface-based insults to our intelligence (people will LOVE coding if we show pictures of women with bitchin' hair styles! Except, y'know, the coding part, which they have no interest in.). Most people aren't this stupid or one-dimensional. What do they not get about the fact that this is just more dishonest bullshit, and that by and large, people don't care for bullshit? Modern tech companies are greedy bullies, plain and simple. If it weren't THEIR industry they felt was in jeopardy of no longer increasing returns ad nauseum, they would not give a single shit.

    26. Re: Well... by Kohath · · Score: 2

      Historians will say mission accomplished.

    27. Re: Well... by AmiMoJo · · Score: 0

      No. Look at the shows they gave advice too. Do they seem like social justice propaganda to you? Not from what I've seen. They just seem normal, like my actual experience of working in tech.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    28. Re: Well... by war4peace · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Or, you know, something more accurate?

      Add in a bunch of different Asian ethnicities, a smattering of other races, a few women who are actually competent and opinionated enough to hold their own, rather than just being eye-candy. And the lot of them spread across the social-competency spectrum from the smart-dressing player to the morbidly obese cheeto-powered coder., instead of predominantly representing the least-attractive stereotypes.

      ...and end up with movies nobody would watch.

      --
      ...gis sdrawkcab (usually not responding to ACs; don't bother posting as AC)
    29. Re:Well... by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      What are you doing to fix this sick society you are so worried about? Ranting about Google on Slashdot?

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    30. Re: Well... by JaredOfEuropa · · Score: 3, Informative

      Seems to me the fix is already in. I've seen so many girl or young black guy hackers in TV series that it's almost becoming a cliché.

      --
      If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
    31. Re: Well... by doctorvo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Seriously - why would you favor the current grossly inaccurate and frankly insulting representation of computer geekdom unless you aspire to be a member of the unhealthy albino sausage-party that is Hollywood's representation? [...] These are just kids we're talking about, mostly extremely image-conscious, and expected to choose a career path based on media portrayal and far too little solid information.

      Yes, as a scrawny gay teenage geek, I aspired to be a member of the "unhealthy albino sausage-party", because those were the people who wouldn't beat me up and actually tolerate them. The teenagers with "no solid information" about computers were the ones doing the beating because in their "extremely image conscious" world, there was no room for scrawny gay geeks like me. Unfortunately, self-righteous bigots like you will destroy this niche for people like me just like you have destroyed the gay and minority neighborhoods people like me used to live in.

    32. Re: Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There are two black male security analysts at my company. That's a 5 person department, and they are the highest achieving. Shut up.

    33. Re: Well... by Dutch+Gun · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Honestly, I'd be pretty happy if Hollywood ever depicted computer science, programming, or hacking in a remotely realistic manner. I honestly don't care all that much what gender or skin color the programmer is. I just want to see less of this, please.

      --
      Irony: Agile development has too much intertia to be abandoned now.
    34. Re: Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't be misleading here. Google is trying to "fix" the race=White and gender=Male part, not the other inaccurate things.

    35. Re: Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your anecdote has a sample size of 5. Fact of the matter (regardless of what it's like at YOUR job) is that folks in CS are predominantly white/asian/Indian and male.

    36. Re:Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The juxtaposition of this story next to "Will Millennials Be Forced Out of Tech Jobs When They Turn 40? " is almost too much to bear. Why does Google or any of these companies apparently think it's totally cool to discriminate against "old" people, but then go to full pearl-clutching mode about not wanting Computer Scientists to be stereotyped.

      "Don't be evil" indeed.

    37. Re: Well... by doctorvo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Is there any profession that Hollywood portrays even remotely accurately?

    38. Re: Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Social Justice and their form of post modernism is poison for the west."

      "Poised"? We've been having social justice since early previous century, and post modernism since late previous century.

    39. Re: Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      YES. corrupt police men/women

    40. Re: Well... by AmiMoJo · · Score: 0

      On the one hand these slactivists are ineffective and cowardly. On the other hand, they are so powerful and dominating that they are bringing about the end of western civilization.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    41. Re: Well... by Kohath · · Score: 4, Funny

      Vampire hunter, starship captain, post-apocalyptic tribal warrior, superhero sidekick, etc., etc. How many examples do you need?

    42. Re: Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      1) I think you severely misunderstood the GP's comment.

      2) If you think non-geeky former-bullies aren't in the tech industry, I would be really surprised if you were in the tech industry.

    43. Re: Well... by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1, Informative

      The stereotype of the socially inept "brogrammer" is VERY accurate. And it's what companies like Google and Facebook want - self-isolating male drones who can expend all their energies on work because they have no home life outside of video games, no social life outside of their bro-mates, no significant other, no kids, can be easily replaced with other drones, moved at a moment's notice because they have no ties in the larger community, and don't have much in the way of other options because interview terribly for jobs outside the field (it's obvious they are so obsessed with demonstrating their imagined superiority in their habitual pissing contests that they wouldn't be a good fit anywhere else).

      We've all either met them, worked with them, or (in the cases of people who deny the accuracy of the stereotype) are them.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    44. Re:Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because *everything* needs to be about achieving purported social justice agendas?

      Have you ever watched a television program? Every episode of every cartoon or sitcom comes with a message. Those messages are often intended to advance cultural development, although they usually are fairly trite and boil down to the golden rule.

      The message of most American TV shows I've ever seen was that you should fret a lot over relatively minor problems because it's cool to be shallow and indulgent, you should never appreciate what you have and learn to make do, popularity is much more important than doing the right thing, a person who makes bad decisions is somehow a victim, bad decisions never have lasting consequences, and every problem will be neatly wrapped up inside of the ~ 30 minute episode. Also, characters who know something will end badly seem to have difficulty speaking up.

      Yeah that's really advancing culture. Hey at least the characters were relatively diverse. Because that's the only diversity that matters: people who look different. As long as they all have the same 8th-grade emotional mentality, it's all good. Diversity of thought and philosophy is just too much work!

    45. Re:Well... by serviscope_minor · · Score: 1

      Have you ever watched a television program?

      You say that but weve had people here whinging that "Star Trek" of all things has got invaded by "teh SJW". I can only conclude they've never watched ToS.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    46. Re: Well... by Dutch+Gun · · Score: 1

      Stories about Hollywood, perhaps?

      --
      Irony: Agile development has too much intertia to be abandoned now.
    47. Re: Well... by johanw · · Score: 1

      For an alternative view, go look at some Bollywood films.

    48. Re: Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      the same slave that were sold to those white men by...... black africans. which is worse, buying a slave, or capturing members of neighboring communities, raping their wives and children, and selling them to the white man? yes slavery sucked, but why is it only the white man who gets the shit for it over 150 years after it ended? white, black and every other colored people have been enslaved, egyptians (black) owned slaves etc... hin hint, nobody alive now is to blame for something that ended over 150 years ago. the world need to move forward instead of living in the past. also, not all white people in america owned slaves, and in actuality my ancestors fought to end slavery and helped runaway slaves gain freedom. i'm sick of the carte blanche given to people to call all white men privileged slave owners. fuck off already. africans have just as much to blame for slavery in america as white people do.

    49. Re: Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Definitely not therapist

    50. Re: Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You think there aren't people that think and speak like the post you reference?

    51. Re: Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not sure where I said both of those two things.

    52. Re: Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not sure where I said poised.

    53. Re: Well... by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 0

      There are two black male security analysts at my company. That's a 5 person department, and they are the highest achieving. Shut up.

      So 100% male. Got it.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    54. Re: Well... by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      Is there any profession that Hollywood portrays even remotely accurately?

      There's always the presidency. It's pretty much like any reality TV show. Poorly scripted repetitive trash catering to the lowest common denominator. But what else can you expect when you cater to people's ignorance and baser urges?

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    55. Re: Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or, you know, something more accurate?

      Add in a bunch of different Asian ethnicities, a smattering of other races, a few women who are actually competent and opinionated enough to hold their own, rather than just being eye-candy. And the lot of them spread across the social-competency spectrum from the smart-dressing player to the morbidly obese cheeto-powered coder., instead of predominantly representing the least-attractive stereotypes.

      While we're at it could we please also cut down on the female hackers and girl gamers with the multi-colored hair, covered in tattoos, with ear gauges you could drive a semi through? Even those "video game developer college" ads do this, the guys look average while the girls look like circus sideshow painted ladies.

      While I have met these types in real life they've always been art-major types so I don't know how it became the female hacker stereotype to begin with. Even going back to a movie as stereotypical as "Hackers" the girls in that film were pretty normal looking nor did the women in the Matrix films have anything more odd than their style of dress going on.

    56. Re: Well... by jedidiah · · Score: 1

      > Yeah, you are only a legitimate good guy if you go to some exotic foreign locale for a couple of weeks to hand out Bibles like a true missionary.

      Pretty much. Except the real life version of that is catching Ebola from trying to treat that disease in poor places with severe resource problems.

      Fundies can be annoying gits sometimes but at least a few of them actually practice what they preach. They do so in significant numbers that it makes a noticable impact on the world.

      "Progressives" can't even clean up after themselves.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    57. Re: Well... by Kohath · · Score: 1

      Probably. Maybe only half of them are fake. Maybe 90% are fake. Maybe only 10%. There's no way to know.

      With all the fakes and trolls, everyone should think twice and then think twice more whenever they see anything. Especially if it seems useful/helpful to someone with an agenda.

    58. Re:Well... by jedidiah · · Score: 1

      > You say that but weve had people here whinging that "Star Trek" of all things has got invaded by "teh SJW". I can only conclude they've never watched ToS.

      Yeah, people like the man himself: Captain James T Kirk.

      I'm surprised the SJW crowd isn't more brutal to old Trek. Kirk himself is a character they should all try to disown. There are all kinds of capitalists and individualists running around.

      Also, that "inclusiveness" you're all so proud of are all horrible ethnic stereotypes that should make you cringe in 2017. Sure, they're better than what you had in the era of The Twilight Zone but they didn't really age well.

      In Living Colour had a great parody of old Trek that wasn't really wrong.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    59. Re: Well... by doctorvo · · Score: 1

      But what else can you expect when you cater to people's ignorance and baser urges?

      Well, unfortunately we can't all be superior, enlightened, educated, highly intelligent moral beings like you! I mean, your charitable work and your dedicated service to humanity speak for themselves!

    60. Re: Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh, please, superhero sidekick involves a lot of domestic chores, sucking dick, bending over and boot licking. You don't see that in Batman and Robin.

    61. Re:Well... by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      In real life most whites are either criminals

      Fixed that for you. Just because whites have a get-out-of-jail-free card based on skin colour, where white rapists escape prison and get off with a slap on the wrist and blacks have to worry about being shot by cops for "walking while black" doesn't mean that white crime rates are lower.

      In real life, very few women are competent at anything technical

      Really?

      What do Caroline Herschel, Ada Lovelace, Mary Somerville, Mary Anning, Lise Meitner, Emmy Noether, Jocelyn Bell, Rosalind Franklin, Vera Rubin, and Hedy Lamarr (among others) have in common? They each made extraordinary scientific discoveries that went unrecognized because they were women, many of them having to endure male colleagues taking credit for their work, then winning Nobel prizes for it. Even Marie Curie - sadly the only woman scientist anyone can ever think of - was dismissed as little more than her husband’s assistant, her Nobel prizes contested by fellow scientists. On December 10, 1911, Marie Curie won her second Nobel, the only person ever to win two Nobels in two different sciences, yet a hundred years later, in 2011, no women were among the nine Nobel winners in the sciences, and women remain severely underrepresented in the STEM professions — science, technology, engineering, and math.

      A 2010 report by the American Association of University Women, based on decades of research, concluded that bias and stereotypes still impede the female pursuit of scientific subjects from grade school through academia. Vivian Gornick’s book of interviews with scientists, Women in Science: Then and Now, provides detailed accounts of the discrimination experienced regularly by professionals. Glaring proof of such prejudice was infamously provided by Lawrence Summers, president of Harvard University at the time, who in a creepy, eugenics-ish statement asserted at a 2005 conference on Diversifying the Science & Engineering Workforce that women had “issues of intrinsic aptitude.”

      Just look at Hedy Lamarr. She wasn't just an A-list actress - she also invented and patented, among other things, spread-spectrum communications - in 1941. That's more than 75 years ago.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    62. Re: Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We all know people who fit the stereotype, and they seem to cluster around tech more than other fields, because tech is a "safe space" for guys who are inept at interacting with others, especially with women.

      Of course, and that's why you chopped your dick off.

    63. Re:Well... by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 0

      Because *everything* needs to be about achieving purported social justice agendas?

      Have you ever watched a television program? Every episode of every cartoon or sitcom comes with a message. Those messages are often intended to advance cultural development, although they usually are fairly trite and boil down to the golden rule.

      If you believe that you're just another oblivious moron. The purpose of every sitcom - every TV show, every movie, every "free" search engine lookup or social media account - is to MAKE MONEY. They use different means to attract different audiences, but the goal is always to make money.

      If they could make money selling their grandmother's blood, they'd do it, and take a deposit on the bottle. If soylent green was profitable, they'd be pushing it and how wonderful it is to end your life early.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    64. Re: Well... by war4peace · · Score: 2

      Do you really fail to understand the difference between "cliche" and "entertainment"?
      I care about character development, storyline and the universe inside which the movie is built, rather than how actors look like or the percentage of *this* or *that* skin color in the movie. I thoroughly enjoyed "12 Angry Men" (the 1957 version) without asking myself for a second "why is the whole jury white?" - because frankly it did not matter. I've also watched (and enjoyed) "all-black" movies without as much as a shadow of a white person in them... guess why... because it did not matter. On the same note I thoroughly disliked series like Xena and Buffy the Vampire Slayer because scantily clad ladies with full makeup and the whole nine yards don't match at all with the series setting.

      I'd be more worried about movie "hackers" saying "I'm in" after 10 seconds of mashing buttons not inspiring ANYONE to pursue an IT career, rather than their gender or skin color having the same effect. But hey, maybe it's just me.

      Oh and I have no "agenda" - I treat people based on their character, not appearance. I'm uglier than most anyway, and I'm often being reminded of that - which, if anything, made me more willing to balance it with my mind, rather than "demand to be equal" (Which I'm not. I'm ugly and that is forever, even if I would force people around me to lie about it.)

      --
      ...gis sdrawkcab (usually not responding to ACs; don't bother posting as AC)
    65. Re: Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      people who fit the stereotype

      Wow, you're conflating various stereotypes into a Big Bang caricature. I thought only Hollywood correlated video game enthusiasm with coding competency. STEM careers have been around for at least a couple hundred years. Before that you needed to be independently wealthy or a member of the church. These careers may exhibit an attraction for certain personality types who have an aversion towards your "social challenges". So? Not everybody's perfect and other careers likely attract other types who have their own aversions to technological challenges, or whatever.

      Parents want their children to grow up happy, which means pursuing a career where they're more likely to succeed.

    66. Re:Well... by PopeRatface · · Score: 0

      I punched an SJW in the face today. It's not much, but at least it's a start!

      --
      Oy vey! It's anudda Shoah, I tells ya! Anudda Shoah!
    67. Re:Well... by drinkypoo · · Score: 2

      If you believe that you're just another oblivious moron. The purpose of every sitcom - every TV show, every movie, every "free" search engine lookup or social media account - is to MAKE MONEY.

      I know you feel amazingly triumphant here, because you think you're teaching me something, but no. You're just failing spectacularly. Money is spent making television for one purpose, to make money. But the creative people who are creating the content have other, additional goals.

      If they could make money selling their grandmother's blood, they'd do it, and take a deposit on the bottle. If soylent green was profitable, they'd be pushing it and how wonderful it is to end your life early.

      Blah blah blah yackety yackety yack. You're so fucking amazing, woo hoo. I know all of that shit, and have known it since I was a teenager. That's beside the point. It doesn't matter why they put a message into the content. Is it because people simply want to be preached to, and will pay for the privilege? Is it because parents want their children to be preached to, and will pay to make it happen? Is it because if they don't put a positive message into the story, they'll be deluged with telephone calls and letters from bored old people about how they're ruining society? The simplest answer isn't any of these, it's who gives a shit? The fact is that movies with morals sell.

      Now you know. And knowing is half the battle.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    68. Re: Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What about that sentence implies 100% male?

      You are biased because of your agenda. Got it.

    69. Re: Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      LOL. Im done. Spit out so much coffee there.

    70. Re: Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      1) I think you severely misunderstood the GP's comment.

      Oh, I understood that self-righteous prick just fine.

      2) If you think non-geeky former-bullies aren't in the tech industry, I would be really surprised if you were in the tech industry.

      There are plenty of bullies and jerks in the tech industry: greedy MBAs, publicity hungry clock boys, and social science majors running the HR departments: people like Immerman want to make sure that they pervade every single tech company on the planet and that there is no place left for anybody who doesn't kiss the ring of the likes of him.

    71. Re: Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because we told them "you either find us some slaves from neighboring villages or we enslave you and your village"

    72. Re:Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You don't see those people signing up to go fight ISIS or even flying to Texas to help people in need.

      ISIS is complicated because US foreign policy in the Middle East is mostly about keeping brutal dictators in power who have close relationships with certain ultra-rich families in the USA (e.g. Bushes and Saudi Dictators). ISIS is bad but, in the big picture, the Bushes and Saudi Dictators are even worse (i.e. who has killed more people). I suppose if someone was really serious about standing up to evil they could try to kill as many members of either the Bush or Saudi royal family as possible. But it would be a good start to just stop voting Republican.

      Texas, well, that's just a relatively minor storm with some flooding due to bad city planning.

      In terms of explicit systematic oppression by US federal government, one of the most obvious examples is foreigners (non-citizens). The US federal government imposes severe restrictions on where non-citizens can live and work and travel in all the territory that it controls. So there is a case to be made for fighting against US customs and immigration - if fighting against government oppression is your thing.

      But then there's the whole animal-based food industry. There's a compelling case to be made that animal-based food is fundamentally similar to slavery. It's quite possible that years from now society will look back on eating meat with the same distaste as black slavery on Southern cotton plantations. So maybe someone with true courage and commitment would be blowing up cattle ranches?

      And then there's the whole capitalism things where freedom is bought with money. You are only free to stay in a hotel or walk out of a supermarket with food for your family if you pay for the privilege with money. Capitalism is a system of incentives where people are rewarded and punished with this freedom that is bought with money. But how much oppression is too much. If poor people are limited in their ability to even get an education then they tend to be trapped in poverty for generations. So maybe capitalism is the true enemy - and someone with true courage and commitment to social justice would be all about killing rich people?

      In a world where 20,000 children a day die of poverty, it's not easy to figure out what it means to be a good person. But if Google wants to cast Pamela Anderson, and other women who look like her, as a computer programmers, that's OK with me. :)

    73. Re: Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Harry: Lloyd, You sold our dead bird to the blind kid?

      Floyd: Harry, I took care of it

      Blind Kid: pretty bird, pretty bird, Polly want a cracker? Pretty bird

    74. Re:Well... by Theaetetus · · Score: 1

      " The problem with the hackneyed stereotype of the socially inept, hoodie-clad white male coder? It does not inspire underrepresented groups to pursue careers in computer science.." So it's not INACCURATE, just uninspiring.

      Because *everything* needs to be about achieving purported social justice agendas?

      No, because socially inept, hoodie-clad white male coders are pretty terrible at crafting aesthetically pleasing UX.

    75. Re:Well... by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Also, that "inclusiveness" you're all so proud of are all horrible ethnic stereotypes that should make you cringe in 2017. Sure, they're better than what you had in the era of The Twilight Zone but they didn't really age well.

      I, for one (two?) can cringe and also be impressed at how far they were driving television at the same time.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    76. Re:Well... by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Yeah that's really advancing culture. Hey at least the characters were relatively diverse. Because that's the only diversity that matters: people who look different. As long as they all have the same 8th-grade emotional mentality, it's all good. Diversity of thought and philosophy is just too much work!

      This is a problem inherent to commercial art, and it's the reason why commercial art can't be permitted to be all that we have. Ideally, it wouldn't even dominate, but it most certainly does that.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    77. Re:Well... by pots · · Score: 1

      Because *everything* needs to be about achieving purported social justice agendas?

      Well media should certainly bend in that direction. I get that complaining about diversity policies has turned into a reflex around here, and some of that is certainly justified, but most of the typical complaints don't seem to apply in this instance.

      Affirmative action hiring may ignore the reality of the job market, but that isn't an issue in a movie or on a TV show. In fact, if a diverse workforce has any value then this might be a more positive approach to achieving that. We know that the gender split among programmers starts in or before high school, based on the number of high school students who take CS AP exam, so if we want to really address the root of that divide then it needs to be at that age and not later on. Media is one way to do that.

      Speaking in more general terms, since your statement was not about just this one issue, media functions as a feedback loop: it both reflects our values and shapes them. You can see the deleterious effect this has when it goes unchecked - just turn on the TV and watch a few reality shows and see the pit that we've fallen into. Some type of intervention is necessary to crawl our way out of that, and usually this comes in the form of an artist saying something like, "I would prefer not to make a pile of shit. I think, instead, I'd like to make a thing which says something. Which makes a difference... somehow. In some beneficial way."

    78. Re:Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > No, because socially inept, hoodie-clad white male coders are pretty terrible at crafting aesthetically pleasing UX.

      Almost nobody is good at crafting aesthetically pleasing UX (by which I assume you mean "design").

      It's interesting to me that since "UX" has become its own separate subfield, with people training in it and job roles specifically focusing on it, UX has got worse than ever.

      Web and desktop apps are filled with "anti-skeumorphic" oversimplified graphics - usually HUGE - that hide functionality and constantly shove meaningless shit in the user's face.

      It's a travesty and nobody seems to be willing to point out that the emperor has no clothes.

    79. Re:Well... by serviscope_minor · · Score: 1

      Yeah, people like the man himself: Captain James T Kirk.

      (a) he did? and (b) so?

      I'm surprised the SJW crowd isn't more brutal to old Trek.

      Probably because you're a bit of an idiot.

      Kirk himself is a character they should all try to disown. There are all kinds of capitalists and individualists running around.

      Huh? Star Trek ToS was a pioneer on social issues.

      Also, that "inclusiveness" you're all so proud of are all horrible ethnic stereotypes that should make you cringe in 2017. Sure, they're better than what you had in the era of The Twilight Zone but they didn't really age well.

      So you're saying we should be completely ignorant of the historical context in order to make you happy? ToS was absolutely groundbreaking. That it didn't break even more groud is not a black mark against it.

      In Living Colour had a great parody of old Trek that wasn't really wrong.

      Being groundbreaking yet dated does not make it any les grounbreaking or any less dated.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    80. Re: Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If there was a Hollywood story about Hollywood's pedophile problem, then i might believe that...

    81. Re:Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > Huh? Star Trek ToS was a pioneer on social issues.

      It also has some horribly sexist moments. Despite showing women in positions of power, they are more frequently portrayed as weak or submissive, treacherous or scheming, shrill harpies, or deadly seductresses.

    82. Re: Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      only people stupid enough to pay 25$ for a bluray.

      same goes with the rise of hiphop/rap. the market shifted, to the sucker.

    83. Re: Well... by Cederic · · Score: 2

      I'm curious, what makes you accuse him of being a "misogynistic asshole"?

    84. Re: Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wrong. The hoodie-wearing white guys have been complaining about the UX crowd since they showed up. But no one listens.

    85. Re: Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In the last year!? Where have you begin? I would argue the evil bit was obvious when they (clearly) misled congresspeople about the email scanning capabilities of Gmail. (Remember, they were talking about the "robot that deletes itself after it scans your email"; not scary at all they said!)

    86. Re: Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah and dudes in wheelchairs. Admittedly not all shows but just thinking off the top of my head: Arrow: female computer wiz, NCIS two nerds one male one female, NCIS New Orelans black guy in a wheelchair. Mr. Robot about equal men and women and lead is an Egyptian.

      Maybe it's a problem elsewhere but where I've worked whites have always been the largest minority. splits something like 40% white, 30% "yellow" Asian and 20% brown Asian. The industry as a whole seems to be going that way. I'm screening resumes, 10 resumes so far: 9 Indians all 5yrs in country, and 1 chinese. We aren't the majority in the field any more in my experience.

      I suspect when Google says more minorities they really mean more latino, black and native representation. Heck usually they exclude Asians in talks about racial pay inequality because it doesn't support the SJW agenda.

    87. Re: Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      White man's burden & guilt. Don't be evil translates 'I can do anything I want as long as I feel guilty about it'. Ownership & top level Googleoids lives this creed / Moto...

    88. Re: Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Social Engineering included as a added bonus!

    89. Re: Well... by Cederic · · Score: 1

      guys who are inept at interacting with others, especially with women. That there are fewer women is secretly, to them, a huge bonus. Far fewer reminders of their inadequacies, of what they can't have

      You feel like backing that up with any evidence, any fucking evidence at all?

      Just that it sounds like rabid man-hating stupidity, rather than anything based on boring mundane things like facts.

    90. Re: Well... by ArmoredDragon · · Score: 0

      We're conducting a vast experiment in eugenics - will those "bros" who fail to breed in sufficient numbers eventually drop out of the gene pool, leaving the human race more resistant to becoming compulsively focused on a very limited set of activities, or is it like gambling and other addictions, where there will always be a sucker born every minute?

      I think that pretty well tops off what I've been saying all along...

      Militant against those who merely disagree? Check.
      Lies in order to spread his message? Check.
      Favors censorship? Check.
      Advocates eugenics? Check.

      You are, in fact, a Nazi...albeit the alt-left version.

    91. Re: Well... by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      You might want to try doing charitable work instead of wasting your time watching reality TV. I find charity work to be very edifying. Plus, not only are you helping others, but you also meet other people who value volunteer work over reality TV. I stand by my sense of priorities.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    92. Re: Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I find charity work to be very edifying.

      Your activism, limited as it is, isn't "charity work".

      You might want to try doing charitable work instead of wasting your time watching reality TV.

      That's what jobless people like you do; so don't project your own habits onto others.

    93. Re: Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh, I know how the devs feel about it. What I means is that nobody in the field of UX wants to admit it's all a pile of poo.

    94. Re: Well... by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 0

      Maybe you should learn to read. Here's what you wrote (emphasis added):

      people who fit the stereotype

      Wow, you're conflating various stereotypes into a Big Bang caricature. I thought only Hollywood correlated video game enthusiasm with coding competency.

      Contrast that with what I actually wrote (emphasis added):

      It's not just IT - take a look at all the guys now in their 20s and 30s (and 40s) whose "social life" is limited to playing video games with other guys or by themselves.

      There are plenty of guys whose life outside of work centers around video games. It's not limited to any one type of job.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    95. Re: Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Pretty much. Except the real life version of that is catching Ebola from trying to treat that disease in poor places with severe resource problems.

      Oh yeah, then they get med-evac'd at prodigious expense to some sumptuous isolation suite in America, while everybody else forgets who is actually suffering from diseases, more than Ebola at that.

      Meanwhile, the pollution-related deaths continue, unabated, the fish are taken from the sea by industrial fleets, and the only thing that the right-wing seems to know about any other diseases is a mindless rant about a non-existent ban on DDT.

      Fundies can be annoying gits sometimes but at least a few of them actually practice what they preach.

      Indeed, they do preach bigotry, oppression, and selfishness. They don't admit that is what they are preaching, but they do practice it. Quite vigorously.

      They do so in significant numbers that it makes a noticable impact on the world.

      Yes, their impact includes forbidding any groups that talk about abortion has lead to a lack of contraceptive access and even knowledge of birth control, their calls for restricting immigration due to unfounded worries about infection, and, of course, we have a lot of Confederate "Dixie" Jesus statues to fawn over.

      "Progressives" can't even clean up after themselves.

      Oh, did somebody get their Koch newsletter this morning about how the "Tea Party" rallies were so squeaky clean, while others weren't? Despite an absence of facts or non-involved parties confirming it, the right-wing just spread that story across the land. Years ago. Then got as quickly debunked as the lies about Obama's Birth Certificate.

      Do keep spreading the "Fake News" Jedidiah, I'm still seeing regular letters to the editors from supposed "Christian" believers who think Donald Trump is the kind of moral person that we should be esteeming, not questioning and challenging. A long-term practitioner of real-estate fraud, a bamboolzer, and a casino operator, all things that nobody except Satan-loving heathens would be skeptical towards.

    96. Re:Well... by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I specifically did NOT mention the people who may be working on any particular sitcom, whose motives may vary. The purpose of the sitcom itself is to make money, as I said. And you can be sure that not everyone who works on a sitcom really gives a shit about changing society for the better via a sitcom - it's first and foremost a job.

      And you're wrong - movies without morals sell. Or have you forgotten about pr0n? Snuff films? Pretty much any movie that glorifies violence? In the last case, it's the killing, the wanton destruction of property, the body count, etc. that sell. Same with the news - "if it bleeds, it leads." Not the ending where the "bad guys" get their comeuppance. Otherwise, Hollywood could skip all those special effects and just cut straight to the end.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    97. Re: Well... by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 0

      The poster went out of their way not to mention the sex of everyone else because it would have proven my point. If he had wanted to undermine it, he could have given the number of women - unless it was zero. Got it now?

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    98. Re:Well... by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      I suppose concluding that ToS was before the purported invasion is too much of a stretch for you.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    99. Re:Well... by yndrd1984 · · Score: 2
      I certainly don't agree with the troll you responded to, but I can't agree with much of what you've stated either:

      Just look at Hedy Lamarr. She wasn't just an A-list actress - she also invented and patented, among other things, spread-spectrum communications - in 1941.

      Just look at Hedy Lamarr. She wasn't just an A-list actress - she also co- invented and patented, among other things, a specific, mechanical way of doing spread-spectrum communications - a technology that was used during WWI, was published about in 1908, had been experimented on before that .

      So you're willing to exaggerate her accomplishment, hide the man who did the work with her, and imply that it was "before it's time"? If you need to distort the facts that much just to get a "top ten" list of female STEM contributors, isn't that an argument against women in tech?

      And after that barrage of misinformation, you want us to just trust you when you say that questions about Ada Lovelace and Marie Curie's second prize are illegitimate? That they could only come from sexism against women - not because people have been pushing to exaggerate women's accomplishments, and not just normal controversies? Seriously?

      Glaring proof of such prejudice was infamously provided by Lawrence Summers, ... “issues of intrinsic aptitude.”

      More than a decade ago one guy gave a speech that you managed to quote-mine four words from (out of a 79-word sentence), and then describe with bad-sounding adjectives! With standards that low the creationists are right - Darwin clearly didn't think the eye could evolve! /s

      He started his speech by stating that it was an "attempt at provocation", started the sentence you quote-mined with "So my best guess, to provoke you ...", and followed that sentence with "I would like nothing better than to be proved wrong...". OMG, such misogyny!

    100. Re: Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I can't believe you're ragging on Hollywood like that.

      I'm going to trace your DNS address through the master router and hack your GUI.

    101. Re: Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You seem to think that it's impossible for people from a rich nation to be victims. This isn't the case.
      49 people dead at Pulse nightclub in Orlando in 2017, shot for being in a gay club.
      22 trangender people dead in 2016 due to fatal violence.
      Black men are NINE TIMES more likely than other ethnicities to be murdered by police.
      And the list goes on and on. So when someone rants about how social justice is evil, I say no; hate is evil, and oppression is evil. Equity means you'll need to accept people who are different than you. Part of improving equity means accepting that social justice interventions are imperfect now, and there's no easy answer. But if you argue that equity is not needed, it's you who will be judged by historians as the oppressor.

    102. Re: Well... by ArmoredDragon · · Score: 2, Informative

      Allow me to introduce you to Tom (Barbara) Hudson. He's a narcissist who jumped on the alt-left bandwagon, and because he hated white males, he paid to have his genitals removed. He hates me quite a bit just because I'm a white male (in spite of my making gestures of goodwill) and ever since then I've called him out on his BS lies.

      He also shares much in common with nazis as he advocates a complete ban of anonymous speech (a la China) in addition to speech codes, and advocates penalties up to and including violence against those he disagrees with, plus eugenics, plus he's quite a bigot.

      If ever there was an example of an alt-left...this is it, plain as day.

    103. Re: Well... by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Sure, I'll give you four examples. One of my former co-workers is a case in point. I had warned him 10 years ago that if he didn't change, he'd be a 40 year old virgin. He didn't change, and now he is. He exemplifies the type of guy who couldn't get laid if he walked into a women's prison with a stack of pardons. Oh yes, I almost forgot - he still lives with his mom, always has, and will until the day she dies.

      I also know a few guys outside IT whose entire life outside work is gaming. One is in his 30s, he actually had a girlfriend a few years ago - but she got sick and tired of coming in second to video games. Lives in mom's basement. Another one is a former friend of a relative, who spends all day gaming, He's in his mid-40s, doesn't work, doesn't want to work, says "why should I when welfare pays for a roof over my head and an internet connection?" Games allow him to ignore his failure to grow the f*ck up. And let's face it, after a few decades not working, he's unemployable. And he's doomed to staying single.

      None of them is grounded in the real world. They may fantasize about getting a girlfriend, but it's going to remain just fantasies. They're totally secluded from any opportunities to interact with people in real life (maybe they think that their Facebook friends are "real friends").

      And now I'll reach back in time to show that this is not new. Back in the DOS days there was a guy who would show up at the restaurant once in a while for breakfast. His total life was devoted to developing a "universal printer driver" for DOS. Year after year. Didn't give up even when Windows came to the fore. By that time, he was so psychologically invested in getting rich off his program and then enjoying all the benefits of same that even when Windows 3.1 was replaced by Windows 95, he kept plugging away. Oh - almost forgot - it was written in BASIC.

      Contrary to your assertion, I don't hate men. You can ask any of the guys I have supper with once or twice a week. Some I work with, others are friends, or friends of friends. There's one who shows up sporadically and ends up with his nose buried in his phone playing games from the moment he sits down pretty much to when he gets up to leave. Another example of someone using games to self-isolate, to live in their own safe bubble.

      And I'm sure there are women who are just as bad. Addicted to Facebook or Twitter or Candy Crush or whatever. It really pisses me off when I visit other women for a get together and they ALL have their faces buried in their phones or tablets (and so do their kids). And the topic of conversation? Who's posted what ... After a while, I just quietly leave. I know when I'm beat.

      One of my sisters has the perfect solution. When everyone meets up at a restaurant, the first one to look at their phone pays everyone's lunch.

      There are plenty of people who are now isolating themselves because it's easier than ever. Today, if you so choose, you can be alone even in a city of millions. Many of these people either no longer have the necessary social skills for actual interaction, or increasingly they never learned them.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    104. Re: Well... by Cederic · · Score: 2

      Wait? You've been working at least a decade, so you must have worked with hundreds of men. And you've found four examples? And still haven't been able to demonstrate that they have any inadequacies?

      Fucking hell, ring the universities! We need to produce a paper on this now!

      Incidentally, what the fuck is with bullying men that don't share your perspective on what's important with life? You appear to be horrified that some men aren't giving three quarters of their income to a woman, and apparently they're the one that's inadequate? No. If you really don't hate men, then perhaps try fucking understanding them from time to time.

    105. Re: Well... by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      Where the hell did I ever advocate for eugenics (even for you, because it's not necessary: you're never going to breed anyway)? Pointing out a problem situation isn't advocating in favour of it. And as for lies, you're the one who just passed yet another whopper.

      I will, however, cop to favouring some forms of censorship. We have laws here against hate speech, and I think that's a good thing. And in case you haven't noticed, both Facebook and Google now censor certain types of posts (Facebook) and videos (youtube).

      And as for militancy, I have engaged in both peaceful protest and legal action - for what I believe in. That's both my right and my responsibility in a democracy. As for "being militant" against you, I'm just giving you back some of what you've served me.

      Why? Because you have a problem with transsexuals. You don't believe that we can possibly be happier as women than we were as men, probably because you believe that men are innately superior to women. Even your military and your current secretary of defense don't buy into that any more, not about women, and not about transsexuals. Tsk tsk. Times have changed, society has evolved, and you've done neither.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    106. Re: Well... by Kohath · · Score: 1

      Which superhero do you work for?

    107. Re: Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I'd like to know as well.

      I guess when women are different because they're more nurturing and more social, that isn't mysogynistic, but when women are different because they're less risk tolerant, that is misogynistic?

      For real, my wife was shocked to hear my plan is misogynistic.

    108. Re: Well... by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      I find charity work to be very edifying.

      Your activism, limited as it is, isn't "charity work".

      Volunteering at the local food bank, a registered charity, 3-4 days a week certainly is charity work. Sure, it's also activism - helping ensure that 800-900 people eat better is the sort of activism that shows real dividends. It's also a great way to do something constructive since I started collecting my pension early at 60.

      You might want to try doing charitable work instead of wasting your time watching reality TV

      That's what jobless people like you do; so don't project your own habits onto others.

      Tsk tsk tsk. I don't watch reality TV. Never saw the point in it, seeing as it's anything but. Anyone who believes that reality tv is real probably also thinks the same for pro wrestling.

      I'm officially retired, and like all retirees, can do anything I want with my free time. I choose to do charity work. What's your excuse for your conduct?

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    109. Re:Well... by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      Hedy Lamarr got the patent, patent number 2292387. Look it up. Her name is one of two on the patent, but it's also the first name on on the first image of the patent, and on the second image it's just her, et al. Her co-patent-holder said Lamarr was the primary inventor. No distortion involved, except on your part. No exaggeration on my part. You just can't believe that a woman can invent and get a technical patent, can you? Why do you hate real life so much?

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    110. Re: Well... by cyber-vandal · · Score: 2

      Rich whites do - I doubt a trailer park dwelling son of a single mother on welfare would have been treated the same. I wish you social justice types would stop making assumptions about people based on their physical characteristics. All you do is alienate lots of people who've never done anything wrong.

    111. Re: Well... by negRo_slim · · Score: 2

      Google shouldn't be trying to fix anything. They should not be shaping our culture through propaganda.

      --
      On the Oregon Cost born and raised, On the beach is where I spent most of my days
    112. Re:Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Found the phony.

    113. Re: Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You seem like an absolute hoot to be around. Seriously, the water cooler conversations must be spectacular. I wonder how many of your co-workers have lept out of the nearest window the moment it became even remotely apparent that you were going to force them to listen to your dickless bullshit?

    114. Re: Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Do you really fail to understand the difference between "cliche" and "entertainment"?

      Is it possible you have failings in that respect?

      I care about character development, storyline and the universe inside which the movie is built, rather than how actors look like or the percentage of *this* or *that* skin color in the movie.

      Experience shows that others may have opinions that differ from your own, in a variety of directions.

      I thoroughly enjoyed "12 Angry Men" (the 1957 version) without asking myself for a second "why is the whole jury white?" - because frankly it did not matter.

      And yet versions of that story exist with casts that are not simply "white" or even "male" and sometimes it has even mattered. Even at the time, there were stories like To Kill a Mockingbird that did have it matter, and more could easily be told.

       

      I've also watched (and enjoyed) "all-black" movies without as much as a shadow of a white person in them... guess why... because it did not matter.

      Or did it?

      On the same note I thoroughly disliked series like Xena and Buffy the Vampire Slayer because scantily clad ladies with full makeup and the whole nine yards don't match at all with the series setting.

      Not the lack of adherence to real mythology or even geography?

      I'd be more worried about movie "hackers" saying "I'm in" after 10 seconds of mashing buttons not inspiring ANYONE to pursue an IT career, rather than their gender or skin color having the same effect. But hey, maybe it's just me.

      It might just be you. The actual details of hacking matter about as much as the police work.

      Oh and I have no "agenda"

      And that makes you what? More credible?

      - I treat people based on their character, not appearance. I'm uglier than most anyway, and I'm often being reminded of that - which, if anything, made me more willing to balance it with my mind, rather than "demand to be equal" (Which I'm not. I'm ugly.)

      Ah, the question of beauty and appearance is also one for Hollywood, even to the exclusion of race.

    115. Re: Well... by ArmoredDragon · · Score: 0

      There are plenty of guys whose life outside of work centers around video games. It's not limited to any one type of job.

      If you weren't retarded, you could see that video games are one of the most social activities that exist. The first hardcore gamers pretty much exclusively played in arcades at bars with friends, and such an environment still exists today. Ever been to Dave and Busters? Of course you haven't, because nazi like yourself wouldn't ever be accepted there. Another common activity is LAN parties and tabletop RPGs (albeit the later isn't a video game.)

      The closest you'd ever be to a bar with an arcade is the street corner offering services at 5 bucks a lay.

      I personally love video games, and if there were more hours in a day, I'd probably be playing them. However, most of my evening is taken by 2 hours at the gym 5 days a week in addition to the extra sleep I require (both of these are used to control my hypertension, which is secondary to my iga nephropathy. I'm on the maximum dose of FIVE classes of anti-hypertensive drugs, and it's just not enough.)

    116. Re: Well... by GuB-42 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Do you really fail to understand the difference between "cliche" and "entertainment"?
      I care about character development, storyline and the universe inside which the movie is built, rather than how actors look like or the percentage of *this* or *that* skin color in the movie.

      In fact, there is a reason for stereotypes. That's to not distract viewers from what the filmmakers really want to show in their movie.

      For example the scenario calls for some computer stuff, so they need a computer guy. The computer guy is that not important to the story, and his race and gender even less so. So what they do is tap in the expectations of the public : a computer guy should be a nerdy white male. If they diverge from the stereotype, people will notice that and the character will draw attention, but it is not what they want, they don't want you to think "hey, a black girl is playing the hacker, interesting", when that hacker is totally secondary to the story.

      What made me realize that is the comment of a sound director about dubbing screeching tires sounds for a car driving on gravel. He said that, yes, he knows it is wrong, but it is a short scene, and most people probably don't even notice the gravel. So as the car accelerates, if it makes the proper sound, spectators will think "what is this sound? oh yes, gravel" for a second, and this is not what you want from a breathtaking action scene. He also said that he has to adapt. It it is clearly shown that the car is on gravel, that the gravel is important or that spectators become too knowledgeable of this particular trope, he will use the correct sound because doing otherwise would be the distraction.

    117. Re: Well... by pipingguy · · Score: 1

      Google's added social engineering to their computer-related engineering interests.

    118. Re:Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The problem with *your* little scenario is Google is also the one holding the chloroform laden towelette.

    119. Re: Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh Mashiki, you still trying to get us to focus on the dreaded "transexuals" so that we'll ignore the true threat from the pension-looting executives, is that it?

      Really, you keep trying to blame the reek of garbage on the most tiny and petty things, while ignoring the huge pile of elephant dung in the middle of the room.

    120. Re: Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You don't believe that we can possibly be happier as women than we were as men

      Clinical outcomes tend to support that assumption, as it happens. Dickless trannies have very high suicide rates, they don't report lower rates of depression, anxiety etc, post-op, they continue to screech at the world for not taking them seriously (as you're doing here), and so on.

      Now, as a Libertarian, I fully support your right to getting mutilated to your heart's content (at your own expense), but if you think you're going to convince anyone that you're happier because you did so, well, you're delusional.

      you believe that men are innately superior to women.

      He didn't say superior, he said different. Got a bit of an inferiority complex there since you got snipped, eh?

      Have a nice day.

    121. Re: Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Modded, so posting Anon

      The post you replied to asserted: "You're suggesting that computer geeks aren't primarily male, or primarily white/asian"

      I've highlighted the 'or' because we're geeks (and therefore understand the difference between and and or).

      His statement gives 2/5 males or 2/5 black

      false or true

      true.

      He made no assertion that: 'You're suggesting that computer geeks aren't primarily male.'

      You're arguing with something he didn't say.

    122. Re: Well... by jcr · · Score: 1

      And make sparks jump out of his keyboard too!

      -jcr

      --
      The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
    123. Re: Well... by jcr · · Score: 1

      Look at how many poor white men got conscripted and killed or maimed in that war.

      -jcr

      --
      The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
    124. Re: Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh Kohath, I only regret that I have but one life to experience disdain towards you. Do keep on demonstrating how important it is to not be like you, Prince Humperdinck, or Sideshow Bob.

    125. Re: Well... by jcr · · Score: 1

      Barney Frank?

      -jcr

      --
      The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
    126. Re: Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm sure you're familiar with the MGTOW "movement," which I think is pretty silly... but it's worth considering: why do men react this negatively to the mere possibility of social interaction with women?

      Is it truly that they are inept, or lack confidence, or is there a possibility that they have seen what modern American women have to offer, and it's just not appealing?

      Who wants to be endlessly criticized and put upon to produce and be successful, to have the pressure of being socially "presentable," important, dignified? We men got enough of that shit from our mothers growing up, why would we want more? Just so we can have actual sex, which never lives up to the fantasy?

      I'm not interested in being with a woman whose friends are going to weigh and measure me and tell her "she can do better." This goes the other way, too, when men criticize their friends' girlfriends' looks (which I grow tired of hearing).

      We all need to take a step back from endless EXPECTATION and look and see who people really ARE, and be willing to accept them as they are.

    127. Re:Well... by jcr · · Score: 1

      Sounds like you're confusing Star Trek with the various porn parodies that are floating around.

      -jcr

      --
      The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
    128. Re: Well... by ArmoredDragon · · Score: 1

      Now, as a Libertarian, I fully support your right to getting mutilated to your heart's content (at your own expense), but if you think you're going to convince anyone that you're happier because you did so, well, you're delusional.

      Agreed. And my opinions on this matter have been entirely from the perspective of critiquing the medical community. The US mostly has this right, (the process is far more stringent here) but other countries (including Canada, where Barbara is from) do the highly irresponsible thing of giving sex changes to children while doing relatively very little in the way of due diligence. The research has been very strong in that 70-80% of kids who express feelings of gender dysphoria just naturally grow out of it if there's no affirmation, and furthermore expressing no desire for it at all when they grow older and can make their own medical decisions.

    129. Re: Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Modded, so posting Anon

      You don't have to have inadequacies to feel you have them.

    130. Re: Well... by jcr · · Score: 1

      why is it only the white man who gets the shit for it over 150 years after it ended?

      That's a good question, and I think it's because guilt-peddling is lucrative when directed against whites, and completely pointless when directed against Arabs, Africans, or any of the other people who still practice slavery today.

      I mean, imagine you're an SJW looking to get some ego gratification by denouncing someone for the crimes of their ancestors. Try it on a white guy, you've got a decent chance of him saying "oh, I'm so privileged and I feel so guilty that a century ago, someone who resembled me committed a crime against someone who resembled you! Here, tax me and spend the money to spread the guilt further!", whereas if you try it on some Wahabbi "princess", who gets caught keeping a slave in the USA, she'll just ask the Saudi Embassy for diplomatic immunity.

      -jcr

      --
      The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
    131. Re: Well... by ArmoredDragon · · Score: 0

      Where the hell did I ever advocate for eugenics (even for you, because it's not necessary: you're never going to breed anyway)? Pointing out a problem situation isn't advocating in favour of it.

      That's a line of BS, and you know it. You've for a very long time been talking down to people who you refer to as nerds simply because they don't agree with you, and you've mentioned with your own satisfaction that they'll be eliminated from the gene pool. By the way, my "nerdiness" has landed me another girlfriend; so much for your stupid theory. And quit fucking pretending that you speak for women -- you're not a woman, and you don't speak for them. They can speak for themselves quite well without your help.

      I will, however, cop to favouring some forms of censorship. We have laws here against hate speech, and I think that's a good thing. And in case you haven't noticed, both Facebook and Google now censor certain types of posts (Facebook) and videos (youtube).

      They only do it because it gets them advertising dollars, because advertisers don't like getting associated with anything controversial. Google did basically nothing about it until the wall street journal (right leaning, by the way) wrote an article about it, and the advertisers subsequently started pulling their ads; something they wouldn't have done if nobody had said anything.

      The wall street journal likely did this because they they've been watching their own revenues drop with the rise of social media, basically as if to say that only media-industry published content is safe.

      Furthermore, I'm not going to make my life's decisions on whatever facebook and google decide. If I did, then they would already have a complete dossier on everything there is to know about me, which they don't because I don't participate.

      And as for militancy, I have engaged in both peaceful protest and legal action - for what I believe in. That's both my right and my responsibility in a democracy. As for "being militant" against you, I'm just giving you back some of what you've served me.

      Nope, you specifically said, and I quote "I'll have the cops on your ass in minutes" (something that wouldn't happen, by the way, yet another one of your fucked up lies about Canadian law.) Furthermore, I have in no way been militant against you: I've never made any kind of threat against you, I've never suggested that you be arrested, and I've never suggested that there should be any government action against you. All of these would be militant behavior, and you've done all three to me.

      https://slashdot.org/comments....

      Why? Because you have a problem with transsexuals. You don't believe that we can possibly be happier as women than we were as men, probably because you believe that men are innately superior to women.

      No, I didn't say that it wasn't possible, I'm sure in a few rare cases it is, as I've mentioned before. However, as I've stated, I think the medical community is making a very grave a mistake by advocating this, and I strongly believe that this will (unfortunately) end up being another black eye on psychiatry, of which they already have too many, which is sad because it only sows distrust against the psychiatry field, which has done a lot of good for a lot of people.

      The suicide rate among transexuals before, during, and after transition is 41%, even if they have nothing but full support from their friends and family and are happily employed. And in fact, University of Birmingham's ARIF, which is a very well respected group in the scientific community, has plainly stated that there's no robust scientific evidence that sex change therapy is clinically effective.

      https://www.theguardian.com/so...

      Speak of which, (something tangentially related) as for

    132. Re: Well... by jcr · · Score: 1

      I've seen so many girl or young black guy hackers in TV series that it's almost becoming a cliché.

      Like the black plainclothes cop who's three days from retirement when he gets shot after saying "I'm too old for this shit"?

      -jcr

      --
      The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
    133. Re: Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Modded, so posting Anon

      I will, however, cop to favouring some forms of censorship. We have laws here against hate speech, and I think that's a good thing. And in case you haven't noticed, both Facebook and Google now censor certain types of posts (Facebook) and videos (youtube).

      I believe one (sensible) point on the limit of free speech is incitement to riot. Implicit in the word riot is the notion of large numbers of people. While there's wisdom in crowds there's also madness. I have said this before. Because of this madness element one should be a little more careful (or perhaps mindful) than usual when deciding what to say in front or large numbers of people.

      Facebook and youtube and many others now reach the biggest crowds the world has ever seen. Damn right they should be a little more careful in deciding what to publish. There is of course an ever-present danger of going too far however!

    134. Re: Well... by ArmoredDragon · · Score: 1

      None of them is grounded in the real world.

      Looks like you have something in common with them. Though honestly, I think it's just you who isn't grounded in reality, and so everybody else looks wrong to you. More on this below.

      And I'm sure there are women who are just as bad. Addicted to Facebook or Twitter or Candy Crush or whatever. It really pisses me off when I visit other women for a get together and they ALL have their faces buried in their phones or tablets (and so do their kids).

      That isn't my experience at all. At social affairs I go to, women are rarely engaged in their smartphones -- sure, they might pull it out once in a while, but they're usually talking to people around them. But if they're ALL doing it, then this is most likely a form of nonverbal communication: They're doing what they can to avoid making eye contact with somebody so that this person can't easily start a conversation, and they're sending a nonverbal message of "I don't want you to talk to me" to that person. This is something everybody does when they're around somebody that they don't want anything to do with, but at the same time they don't want any confrontation, and it's been happening since time immemorial. Before smartphones it was done with other things like books, newspapers, weaving baskets, solving puzzles, making art, and many other one-person activities that can be done around other people. Men and women alike do this.

      In your case, I think it's pretty obvious who they're trying to avoid, and your quietly leaving is exactly what they wanted to happen. At social events, very few people bury their heads in their smartphones. The ones that really want to do this won't even come to begin with. The fact that you often see otherwise says more about you, not them.

      By the way, I have many geeky coworkers, and not a single one of them is socially isolated, with all but two of them having kids (I am one of the two that don't.) And again, this is probably your experience because what they're really doing is trying to isolate themselves from you, so naturally you think you see many socially isolated people. And I'm sure you'll disagree, as narcissists often do in situations like these. Narcissists tend to think that all people inherently like them, unless they make obvious statements otherwise, and that everybody who doesn't like them is just a bad person. And of course, narcissists handle it very poorly when somebody doesn't like them. This is also why you get so upset when you see people buried in their smartphones instead of paying attention to you. (Don't deny this; you said, and I quote "it really pisses me off".)

      Personally, on the rare occasion I see other people buried in their phones, it does not bother me at all.

    135. Re: Well... by Citizen+of+Earth · · Score: 2

      Mr. Robot is refreshing in this regard.

    136. Re: Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So trying to ensure women get equal opportunity is evil but ignoring the patriarchal racist society is good? Do tell...

    137. Re: Well... by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 0

      Wrong. Skin colour is the #1 determinant of court case disposition. And it's not "social justice types ... making assumptions about people based on their physical characteristics" - it's the way the world works, same as when the same resume is submitted with both a male and a female name, people evaluate the male name's resume as more qualified, same as when a resume is submitted with both a white-sounding name and a black-sounding name, the white-sounding name is seen as more qualified. Same with the wage gap - there's a wage gap based on gender, and one based on skin colour.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    138. Re: Well... by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      Still fail to address the other poster's lies, I see. Pitiful.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    139. Re: Well... by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 0

      In case you haven't noticed, the number of in-home video game consoles totally swamps the number of video game arcade machines. Stop living in the past. Your mode of thinking is obsolete, same as you.

      This is slashdot - anyone wanting to play arcade games would be more likely to fire up mame for their dose of nostalgia.

      As for high blood pressure, take some estrogen. Contrary to previous findings, it's now known to be beneficial to both the circulatory system and the brain, by making the blood vessels more flexible and reducing the risk of stroke. It's also a powerful antidepressant. Oh wait - you can't/won't do that. I can (and do) which means I'm likely to live far longer than you. Sux 2 B U.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    140. Re: Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      There is a great non racist society where whites were all killed. It is the glorious republique of Haiti. Strangely enough Americans do not flock there.

    141. Re: Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Considering that security analyst position is a sinecure (people that do nothing Most of the time unless it is an NSA contractor, your large scale of blacks is not surprising at all. I bet the there others are women.

    142. Re:Well... by yndrd1984 · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Why do you hate real life so much?

      I don't hate anyone. I do think that people like you are so obsessed with your narrative that you're willing to lie in order to feel better about yourself or as signal to other people, and that that kind of behavior is damaging. To give some examples:

      You just can't believe that a woman can invent and get a technical patent, can you?

      There's no imaginable reading of my post that would even suggest that. Do you see how much this has distorted your view of the facts?

      No distortion involved, except on your part. No exaggeration on my part.

      I offered three different minor corrections to one thing you said, and you've directly admitted that one of them was correct. The problem is that getting those minor facts wrong is a necessary part of what you're trying to do - exaggerate one person's accomplishment while erasing those of others, all in the furtherance of a political goal. You have to get a bunch of facts slightly wrong, so that you can pretend that Hedy Lamarr "invented spread-spectrum communications" on her own and the dozens of men with equal or greater contributions to the field didn't do anything other than take credit for her work.

      Emmy Noether and Marie Curie made extremely exceptional contributions, please don't bring them down to the level of an above-average amature engineer.

    143. Re: Well... by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      Stop with the bullshit. Suicide rates are just above the general population for post-op transsexuals. You're either a liar or inept.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    144. Re: Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Dunce.

      In America you get all the justice you can afford to buy. So for us working class folks, white or not, that's no justice at all. Get fucking real, rich boy.

    145. Re:Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, they DID fire someone for disagreeing with this.

      So it's not TOO far off......

    146. Re: Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Google is still hiring the best of the best of any skin color and orientation. There is no wiggle room to not hire the best in the field. They might work for your competitor if you don't hire them.

      The wiggle room is for the average and below coders that. The people you need to do more mundane filler stuff.

    147. Re: Well... by yndrd1984 · · Score: 1

      when the same resume is submitted with both a male and a female name, people evaluate the male name's resume as more qualified

      Not always.

      Same with the wage gap - there's a wage gap based on gender

      Yes, and the primary cause of it is the 'number of hours worked' gap. Then there are the 'danger' (e.g. risk of death), 'being outside' and 'inconvenience' (e.g. graveyard shift, commute, schedule flexibility) gaps. Somewhere down at the bottom of the list is the 'we don't know, but it might be sexism' gap.

    148. Re: Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh suddenly achieving a social agenda over profit is bad. Aren't you the same guy that didn't want Google to hire foreigners?

    149. Re: Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hey broham - how's the patent trolling business going for you? Stifled much innovation lately?

    150. Re: Well... by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      You're so full of shit. You either don't know what you're talking about, or you're intentionally lying. Puberty blockers until the child is old enough to make an informed decision is not a sex change. Delaying puberty, rather than rushing into a sex change, is both the norm and due diligence. (Do you even know what due diligence means? It seems not.)

      As for your figure of 70%-80%, the guys that were pushing that line of bullshit (Zucker and his buddies) were one of the reasons that Toronto closed its' gender clinic. They were found to have been telling many parents whose children did not meet the criteria for gender dysphoria that they did. So of course, since these kids weren't actually gender dysphoric, they "outgrew" it - but they didn't actually outgrow it because they weren't in the first place. They also engaged in "reparative therapy", including what we would ordinarily classify as child abuse, which is why it's now banned for children in Toronto and pretty much the rest of Canada, one of the reasons being that children cannot give informed consent and their rights, including to be free of abuse and to make their own decisions in the fulness of time, need to be protected. But money and power and being able to write more bullshit research papers are all powerful inducements to fudge the truth. Or in your case, because you have nothing better to do. But in both cases, the truth comes out.

      There's a history of that sort of abuse wrt transsexuals, and it continues to be a problem in some areas, in part because assholes like you push your own bizarre agendas.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    151. Re: Well... by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 0

      I pointed out the reasons why it's safe to assume the rest were also males in my answer to the question "what about that sentence implies 100% male". If you can't engage in logical thought to reach reasonable conclusions, that's your problem, not mine. Also, based on both my reasoning and the general odds in the industry, they're almost certainly all male. Or do you dispute that too just because you need me to be wrong?

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    152. Re: Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think you are being misguided. Testosterone blockers you take have a long list of nasty side effects so you got no more than ten years to go. Unless someone agrees to donate you a new liver.

    153. Re: Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Did you overlook the twisted logic?

    154. Re: Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You feminists are as sexist as those you hate. Go f yourself with a rusty chainsaw.

    155. Re: Well... by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      Men who have near-zero experience (such as the 40-year-old virgin I cited) express the desire to interact with women, they just can't bring themselves to. So they withdraw as much as they can.

      It's like people who take all day to work up the courage to call on one potential employer to ask for a job. They're socially inept, and they know it. The flop sweat starts before they've even left the house. One rejection crushes them for a day, a week, a month ... or more.

      If you're letting the fear of someone's friends finding you wanting, you've just violated your own statement of "seeing who people really are". What her friends say means nothing, same as what your friends say, wrt whoever you date. Rejecting someone preemptively because of what their friends might say is the act of a coward who fears rejection from people who you don't even know and whose opinions should be irrelevant.

      As for being "socially presentable", if you can't engage in polite conversation on any topics except computers and games, you have no more to offer than someone who can only talk about their job and stamp collecting, or who go on and on about their ex. Being boring is a good reason to not be into someone, and many of the guys who have retreated into IT and/or video gaming to escape interacting with others who are not like them are boring. Actually, let me rephrase that - they're f*cking boring. As in "I'm going to text someone to call me and say I'm needed elsewhere because that's easier than gnawing off one of my legs." Almost every woman can do better than that.

      Has nothing to do with being important or "dignified" (whatever that means in this context - sounds like someone who's so stiff they might as well have a broomstick up their arse).

      One thing I've noticed is that a good listener is perceived as a good conversationalist, more open, more interesting. AND MORE ATTRACTIVE. That's why we have 2 ears and 1 mouth. I've seen the effect on men of being a good listener. It's almost like having a remote control. Remember - men think that women have had equal time to speak when we have spoken 15% of the time and they've spoken 85% of the time. It's really annoying in business, but therein also lies power.

      I'm not revealing any magic secrets - it's not rocket science or 33rd level freemasonry. You can observe it pretty much anywhere if you take the time. But most guys can't resist trying to fill up that 85%, and then wonder when the woman says "You never listen to me. You don't even know me."

      Relationships are hard. They're messy - same as good sex. But they need to be developed over time, and you can't do that if you're hiding in a world with other bros coding and playing video games because of fear of rejection, can you?

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    156. Re: Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Barbara, you ARE a loser!

    157. Re: Well... by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      Again, where have I ever advocated for eugenics?

      The simple fact is that post-2000 suicide rates are very low because society has changed. And your stats are full of shit - they were from an earlier time, where transwomen faced far more assholes like you than today.

      The mental health quality of life of trans women without surgical intervention was significantly lower compared to the general population, while those transwomen who received FFS, GRS, or both had mental health quality of life scores not significantly different from the general female population.

      As for widespread regret? It's a lie.

      Surgical regret is actually very uncommon. Virtually every modern study puts it below 4 percent, and most estimate it to be between 1 and 2 percent (Cohen-Kettenis & Pfafflin 2003, Kuiper & Cohen-Kettenis 1998, Pfafflin & Junge 1998, Smith 2005, Dhejne 2014). In some other recent longitudinal studies, none of the subjects expressed regret over medically transitioning (Krege et al. 2001, De Cuypere et al. 2006).

      ... and ...

      Any surgery comes with a risk of regret. It just happens that the risk of regret for GCS is actually much lower than for many other surgeries. Indeed, the regret rate for GCS compares favorably with gastric banding.

      When asked about regrets, only 2 percent of respondents in a survey of transgender people in the UK had major regrets regarding the physical changes they had made, compared with 65 percent of non-transgender people in the UK who have had plastic surgery.

      Maybe we should ban plastic surgery to everyone except transsexuals, since clearly they're the group where the majority don't have regrets, just a tiny minority. And as the article points out, even that rate is falling with more advances in technique.

      And you lied here:

      Ditto for testosterone, which you've wrongfully stated makes FTM transexuals more likely to gain steady employment.

      It has nothing to do with testosterone and everything to do with men's visceral negative reaction to male-to-female sex changes. We don't see anywhere near the levels of hate and negativity directed towards F2M transsexuals - even those F2M who aren't on hormones. Transmisogeny is real, and you're a prime example.

      Also, as for your claiming that I'm a narcissist, my psychiatrist and psychologist disagree. And of course they're in a better position to make a valid judgement, given that they've actually examined, interviewed, and tested me. So once again, you're full of shit.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    158. Re: Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "I disagree with you, therefore misogynist."

      You're a testament to intellectual integrity.

    159. Re: Well... by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 0

      We've been over this before. You lie, repeatedly, and badly. Anyone observing your interactions with me would draw the same conclusions. Your infatuation with me and need to initiate the insults in an attempt to somehow "prove" that I should be unhappy with my decision makes you one sick fuck.

      And I'm far from the only one who thinks that meeting people for supper and then spending the entire time playing games on your phone is unacceptable. They're taking up a seat that could be used by someone who actually wants to contribute to the occasion.

      And you really should stop with your accusations of narcissism. The shrinks found zero trace of that. Or any psychosis or mania. I've got it in writing. But who knows what they'd find between your delusional ears.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    160. Re:Well... by swillden · · Score: 1

      Because *everything* needs to be about achieving purported social justice agendas?

      Nothing to do with that.

      What it's about is enabling Google to hire a diverse workforce, because diversity increases productivity and creativity, without any lowering of the bar.

      And "diversity" here doesn't just mean skin color or plumbing, but a variety of factors that result in a different life experience. For example, white guys from my alma mater are considered "diversity" hires by Google's recruiters, for the simple reason that it's a small commuter community college whose student body tends to have followed a different path in life than the typical Stanford CS grad. But obviously different skin color and plumbing is both correlated with and a cause of significantly different life experiences, so that, too.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    161. Re: Well... by swillden · · Score: 1

      Seems like it. Google used to at least try to follow "Do no evil" but seems to have completely thrown that away in the last year.

      Just curious, do you actually not know that the motto was/is "Don't be evil", rather than "Do no evil"? Or do you know and just prefer the stronger form, even though it's inaccurate?

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    162. Re: Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ha trannies are the single largest group that have the highest suicide rates. You suck barbara, you are a liar, you are a hypocrite.

    163. Re: Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      One of the initial methods used by Southern sympathizers and apologists was to stir up dissent by by claiming Lincoln was trying to make them fight a war for blacks.

      Combined with the idea that they would have to work with free blacks, and well, that was the New York City Draft Riot of 1863.

    164. Re:Well... by Gussington · · Score: 1

      So it's not INACCURATE, just uninspiring.

      Because *everything* needs to be about achieving purported social justice agendas?

      Um, you should hang out with some nerds sometime. Looking around my project room right now of a few dozen $1000/day contractors I can count the whiteys on one hand.
      I also happen to work across the road from a leading technology university where I go for cheap lunches and the campus could easily be in Asia based on the student population.
      So yeah, inaccurate....

    165. Re: Well... by ArmoredDragon · · Score: 1

      We've been over this before. You lie, repeatedly, and badly.

      This is just you projecting. I have provided very good evidence of your fibs. Do you want me to link it again? Remember that you haven't even disputed any of it or even tried to offer an explanation.

      Your infatuation with me and need to initiate the insults in an attempt to somehow "prove" that I should be unhappy with my decision makes you one sick fuck.

      I haven't made any attempts at that.

      And you really should stop with your accusations of narcissism.

      It's not an accusation. That would be like saying I'm accusing you of being a transexual.

    166. Re: Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That could work. Today, a programmer has to master a ton of different APIs and connect a full stack of systems. If they hired a ton more people, they'd just have to make an assembly line out of them.

      I suppose you could break up the job into 20K tiers - you get 20K for knowing SQL and database design to a very basic level.
      20K for being able to make a pretty webpage.
      20K for doing Javascript APIs on the webpages.
      20K for collecting requirements and writing business rules in a way that that the server side coder can implement.
      20K for doing the server side coding.

      Now, when we go to UBI, the other part of the income would come from that, and your low end / risk adverse coding job does half.

    167. Re:Well... by lucm · · Score: 1

      I don't think you understand what is happening. This is a witch hunt, pure and simple. Google has already shown that they will publicly fire dissenters, and now they're trying to bully other industries and force them to promote their social agenda. They already control what you see on internet, and now they want to control what you see on tv.

      Fuck Google.

      --
      lucm, indeed.
    168. Re: Well... by ArmoredDragon · · Score: 0

      Again, where have I ever advocated for eugenics?

      The simple fact is that post-2000 suicide rates are very low because society has changed. [huffingtonpost.com] And your stats are full of shit - they were from an earlier time, where transwomen faced far more assholes like you than today.

      As for widespread regret? It's a lie. ... and ...

      Maybe we should ban plastic surgery to everyone except transsexuals, since clearly they're the group where the majority don't have regrets, just a tiny minority. And as the article points out, even that rate is falling with more advances in technique.

      Your article doesn't do anything to refute what I stated; in fact it does the opposite and even contradicts what you stated here: It cites a source which analyzes the ARIF study, and that source agrees with ARIF that there is no scientific evidence that meets the gold standard of proving that sex change is clinically effective. Furthermore, that source also cites a 2014 study saying that suicide rates among transpeople is even higher than what I stated. So thank you for the link.

      And you lied here:

      It has nothing to do with testosterone

      And you base this on...absolutely nothing.

      and everything to do with men's visceral negative reaction to male-to-female sex changes. We don't see anywhere near the levels of hate and negativity directed towards F2M transsexuals - even those F2M who aren't on hormones. Transmisogeny is real, and you're a prime example.

      No, it's just you.

      That aside, I don't think you are capable of understanding the difference between lying, mis-stating, misunderstanding, mis-remembering, and being misinformed. So far everything you've said that I lied about is either something that wasn't incorrect at all, or was one of the later, and was not in any way an intentionally false statement. This is unlike the link I keep posting where I plainly show that you've made many intentionally false statements.

      Also, as for your claiming that I'm a narcissist, my psychiatrist and psychologist disagree. And of course they're in a better position to make a valid judgement, given that they've actually examined, interviewed, and tested me. So once again, you're full of shit.

      It's not surprising because narcissistic personality disorder is well known to be difficult to diagnose, and even more difficult to treat. Very rarely will a narcissist even mention that they may have the problem to begin with, and when diagnosed, they'll usually insist that there's no problem at all. Most of them are able to function well regardless, so it just doesn't even come up:

      http://psychiatric-disorders.c...

      So they either didn't evaluate you for this, or just plain missed it. This happens all the time, even with personality disorders that are easier to diagnose. I saw many psychiatrists before one told me that I had avoidant personality disorder. In all of those years prior, none of them even mentioned it once. They also may want to provide a supportive environment, and telling you that you are a narcissist doesn't help at all, so they'd prefer to not bring it up.

      So even if your shrinks didn't mention it, that doesn't prove anything. In fact, it's rather perplexing to me that you can't even see it yourself, but again, that is also a common trait of narcissism and is therefore expected. Notice how you're reaching really really hard (and missing even harder) to try to prove that I'm lying...That's a behavior I would expect from somebody who is trying very hard to prove that they are superior or at least have some kind of moral high ground.

    169. Re: Well... by ArmoredDragon · · Score: 1

      In case you haven't noticed, the number of in-home video game consoles totally swamps the number of video game arcade machines. Stop living in the past. Your mode of thinking is obsolete, same as you.

      In case you haven't noticed, this doesn't contradict anything I've stated.

      As for high blood pressure, take some estrogen.

      That would cause a ton of other problems, so no thanks. My blood pressure is actually quite well controlled with exercise and prescription sleep medication, in addition to 6 grams daily of taurine supplement.

      As for high blood pressure, take some estrogen. Contrary to previous findings, it's now known to be beneficial to both the circulatory system and the brain, by making the blood vessels more flexible and reducing the risk of stroke. It's also a powerful antidepressant. Oh wait - you can't/won't do that. I can (and do) which means I'm likely to live far longer than you. Sux 2 B U.

      You're sadly mistaken:

      https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/p...

      CONCLUSIONS: The increased mortality in hormone-treated MtF transsexuals was mainly due to non-hormone-related causes, but ethinyl estradiol may increase the risk of cardiovascular death. In the FtM transsexuals, use of testosterone in doses used for hypogonadal men seemed safe.

      (Or if it was you stating this to me, you'd refer to it as a lie.)

      And the reason the life expectancy is higher for real women is widely recognized as being owed to social factors (for example, men having a tendency of taking on jobs that are more hazardous to their health.) This is reinforced by the fact that the extra longevity that women have varies a lot from country to country, even among first world countries.

    170. Re:Well... by fche · · Score: 1

      "In some beneficial way."

      In context, we're talking about having the media deliberately lie about representing actual people. Forgive my skepticism about whether lying in a beneficial way (literally propaganda) is really a good idea.

    171. Re: Well... by ArmoredDragon · · Score: 1

      I'll just leave a few references here:

      https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/p...

      As children with GID only rarely go on to have permanent transsexualism, irreversible physical interventions are clearly not indicated until after the individual’s psychosexual development is complete. The identity-creating experiences of this phase of development should not be restricted by the use of LHRH analogues that prevent puberty.

      https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/p...

      At the assessment in childhood, 60% of the girls met the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders criteria for GID, and 40% were subthreshold for the diagnosis. At follow-up, 3 participants (12%) were judged to have GID or gender dysphoria.

    172. Re: Well... by ArmoredDragon · · Score: 1

      Stop with the bullshit. Suicide rates are just above the general population for post-op transsexuals.

      https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/p...

      In England, 48% of the transgender young people had attempted suicide at least once in their lives.[13] The prevalence of suicide remains high among transgender persons irrespective of disclosing their transgender status to others and undergoing sex reassignment surgery.[8]

    173. Re: Well... by ArmoredDragon · · Score: 1

      Men who have near-zero experience (such as the 40-year-old virgin I cited) express the desire to interact with women, they just can't bring themselves to. So they withdraw as much as they can.

      This is often rooted in somebody being bullied for a significant portion of their life, much as you are no doubt trying to do to this person you keep mentioning. You've demonstrated bigotry numerous times here, so it's not unexpected. This guy obviously has problems, and it doesn't help when somebody like you tries to bully them some more.

      It's like people who take all day to work up the courage to call on one potential employer to ask for a job. They're socially inept, and they know it.

      That isn't being socially inept; that's just performance anxiety. It's the same kind of anxiety people get when performing on a stage, interviewing, or making public speeches...Ask any hiring manager how often people get nervous during interviews; they'll likely tell you that almost everybody does at some point during the interview. It's perfectly normal, and most people experience this, with narcissists being a notable exception (...remind you of someone?)

      As for being "socially presentable", if you can't engage in polite conversation on any topics except computers and games,

      People naturally like to talk about things that they're interested in. Thinking that women won't be interested in these things would be misogyny on your part.

    174. Re: Well... by Warma · · Score: 1

      Thank you for having the courage to say this in this forum.
      You are spot on in your analysis, whether the nerds want to hear it or not.

    175. Re: Well... by ArmoredDragon · · Score: 1

      Well, the AC is on the right track here. You already admitted that people bury their heads in their smartphones when you're around, going as far as stating that "ALL" of them will do it during social events until you leave. While not jumping out of windows as AC stated, this is a pretty good sign that they want to avoid interacting with you.

    176. Re: Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Ahh yes, our great patriarchy. The land where women hitting men is funny, but the second he hits back the people laughing now step in because... patriarchy? This wonderful patriarchy where more women are attending and succeeding in higher education. The partriarchy where women serve less time for the same crime. A grand patriarchy where women are deemed the better parent the vast majority of the time, and single dads have trouble not being thought of as pedophiles for taking their kids to the park. Yep, society truly favors men. A patriarchy where saying something that is misinterpreted as mysoginy gets a man fired, but "misandry doesn't exist".

      If men are running a patriarchy, they're certainly doing a lousy job putting themselves at the top of the social food chain.

    177. Re: Well... by Mashiki · · Score: 1

      Oh Mashiki, you still trying to get us to focus on the dreaded "transexuals" so that we'll ignore the true threat from the pension-looting executives, is that it?

      Considering over the lifetime of "one transexual" op including the medication which is included, would cover 6 average out-of-work people who were injured on the job. I'd say the priorities are pretty fucked up wouldn't you?

      Really, you keep trying to blame the reek of garbage on the most tiny and petty things, while ignoring the huge pile of elephant dung in the middle of the room.

      Looks like you have no idea on what's actually happening in your own backyard. Maybe you can get Wynne to tell you why her poll numbers show her support is at 6.3% and the liberal party is polling at 11% now.

      --
      Om, nomnomnom...
    178. Re: Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      For what it's worth, I've just been reading your replies and I already hate you. Most of the trans people I know are very chill and don't worry about identity politics and I'd hang out with them whenever. You seem very much like someone I'd avoid like a toxic plague.

      Think what you will of ArmoredDragon, everyone is allowed to dislike whomever for whatever reason. If I had to pick between the two of you for a social gathering, it wouldn't be you. I'd hate to walk on eggshells wondering what percieved slight you'd use to act like I shit in your cornflakes and would spend the entire time I was around you avoiding as much communication as possible. And I'll say it bluntly: It's not because you're trans, it's because you're a shitty human being.

    179. Re: Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I missed the part where they advocated for any movement.

    180. Re:Well... by pots · · Score: 1

      You're describing fiction. They are not representing actual people, they're representing fictional people. You can make fictional people be anything you want, that's what fiction is.

      I'm struggling to see your point here, but... Oh wait. I've seen this before. This is one of the common complaints about Star Trek. "It's too idealistic." "Humans wouldn't behave that way, that's not real." No, it's not real. It's not intended to be real, it's intended to be better than real. Star Trek is an optimistic look at the future, where this is an optimistic look at the present. It's supposed to be inspiring.

      The typical complaint about this when it comes to Star Trek is that the break with reality is disillusioning, it violates some peoples' suspension of disbelief. I could maybe see that, if that's the issue you're having here, but if that's the case then it's really only likely to be a problem for people in a similar line of work to what's depicted. For the great majority of people this shouldn't be a problem.

    181. Re:Well... by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      By that logic, you are running a witch hunt too. Anyone speaking up with a contrary opinion is condemned and added to the naughty list of public enemies, nay enemies of civilization according to this thread.

      You want to control what we see on TV and the internet. You demand your standards are upheld and stuck to.

      Or maybe you just have an opinion like everyone else and are free to state it, and people are free to listen or even solicit your advice.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    182. Re: Well... by Megol · · Score: 1

      And the insane gets positive moderation...

    183. Re: Well... by Megol · · Score: 1

      You are really showing us all that the dragon probably have a bit of valid point. Maybe you should have re-read your own post before sending it?

      Narcissism as a medical diagnosis is pretty rare - but that doesn't mean a person can't be narcissistic without being diagnosed. I wonder why medical professionals would even try to find something like that?
      Psychosis or mania... Well I don't see how those are relevant here unless you think people are implying (which they may - I haven't read enough) that your level of disconnect is enough for indicating a psychosis. I don't see any indication of that anyway. Mania? Not relevant at all.

      What I'd like to see is you trying to be less judgmental - not that you should care - as IMHO your often insightful opinions is blurred by a fixed worldview formed by your experiences and ideas leaving a bitter aftertaste. But again you shouldn't care as such, my opinion is not really worth anything and people go about trumpeting their ideas of the world all the time. Most with a not so small amount of (normal non-medical) narcissism...

    184. Re: Well... by Megol · · Score: 1

      Bullshit. The analysis is crap, not worthy of being called analysis at all. Please don't encourage this.

    185. Re:Well... by Megol · · Score: 1

      [This is for the idiots - non-idiots need not read]
      So changing the (often criticized by people calling themselves nerds etc.) depiction of computer professionals in movies, something that _is_ and _does_ influence what people growing up perceives how things are in those professions is wrong? How the hell can you make that kind of thought pattern make sense at all?!?

      But reading the hints here and there shows that promoting females (an underrepresented group) into a field where they are underrepresented largely because of media depictions of what that field is about (there's a lot of research about that - google) is taboo.

      Are you lot afraid of women? Really... If your ideas of females being unsuited for the work _it_will_self_regulate_ with women exiting the field.

      So the only reasonable interpretation is that you are indeed afraid of women and find computer programming a safe spot for avoiding them. So maybe you should grow up instead of fearing 50% of the human population? Hint: women are people too, treat them like people.

    186. Re: Well... by Rakarra · · Score: 1

      For example the scenario calls for some computer stuff, so they need a computer guy. The computer guy is that not important to the story, and his race and gender even less so. So what they do is tap in the expectations of the public : a computer guy should be a nerdy white male. If they diverge from the stereotype, people will notice that and the character will draw attention, but it is not what they want, they don't want you to think "hey, a black girl is playing the hacker, interesting", when that hacker is totally secondary to the story.

      In other words, the casting decision not only doesn't reflect how things really work, but it actively reinforces a stereotype.

    187. Re: Well... by Rakarra · · Score: 1

      And the insane gets positive moderation...

      There is no justice, this is the world we live in these days.

    188. Re: Well... by Rakarra · · Score: 1

      You and me both, AC.

    189. Re: Well... by Warma · · Score: 2

      Nah.

      I'm pretty much a "guy in his 30s whose social life is limited to playing video games with other guys". Of course it's a bit more complex than that, and like any human being, I personally I feel that I have a vast array of interests, an eye for art, and complex inner world, but I'm simply not delusional enough to assume that a random woman would see me as anything else than a perfect representation of that stereotype.

      That kind of rants prey on the insecurities of people here, as evidenced by the number of replies, and the process itself is actually quite funny. These flamewars belong to Slashdot and I'd rather see them than lament their absence.

    190. Re:Well... by jandersen · · Score: 1

      Because *everything* needs to be about achieving purported social justice agendas?

      I wonder - what does one call this sort of argument that tries to make everything into a black/white question with only 1 possible answer? A false dicotomy? Whatever - the world is not as simple as that. The output of Hollywood is only entertainment, perhaps, but even entertainment influences how people think and behave, and there is much more in this than simply attracting underrepresented groups into STEM. For example, if you are a scientist or engineer, or you work as SW development - do you want people in general to perceive you as one of these stereotypes that see in a Hollywood movie? To most people, that is the only kind of impression they will get of people in science and technology.

      But to answer your question: *Everything* that Hollywood produces already has a social impact, whether this is intended or not, and since we all depend for our daily lives on the stability and cohesion on society, we should be interested in promoting the influences that make society more stable and coherent. Inequality and injustice are two of the main factors that threaten stability and cohesion, thus we should strive to achieve social justice. Isn't that kind of obvious?

    191. Re: Well... by Rakarra · · Score: 1

      Like the black plainclothes cop who's three days from retirement when he gets shot after saying "I'm too old for this shit"?

      -jcr

      To be fair, Danny Glover was in everything for awhile.

    192. Re: Well... by Rakarra · · Score: 1

      Oh, please, superhero sidekick involves a lot of domestic chores, sucking dick, bending over and boot licking. You don't see that in Batman and Robin.

      I figured that was always strongly implied in Batman and Robin. And more than merely implied in the comics.

    193. Re: Well... by Rakarra · · Score: 1

      But what else can you expect when you cater to people's ignorance and baser urges?

      Well, unfortunately we can't all be superior, enlightened, educated, highly intelligent moral beings like you! I mean, your charitable work and your dedicated service to humanity speak for themselves!

      When I think "who do I think would make a good President," I want someone BETTER than me. No, not an average dude I could have a beer with, and not the reality TV stars we can all look down on to feel better about ourselves. Our standard for President should be high, much higher than we've recently used.

    194. Re: Well... by Rakarra · · Score: 1

      Tsk tsk tsk. I don't watch reality TV. Never saw the point in it, seeing as it's anything but. Anyone who believes that reality tv is real probably also thinks the same for pro wrestling.

      Depends on the reality show. Some are super-scripted, some not. So You Think You Can Dance? features some absolutely fantastic dancing.

    195. Re: Well... by Rakarra · · Score: 1

      Don't be evil translates 'I can do anything I want as long as I feel guilty about it'.

      Well it used to be, at least among those who believed it, "if I feel guilty about this, then I shouldn't do it."

    196. Re: Well... by Ash-Fox · · Score: 1

      Note: I am a third party to this conversation. I also appologize if this post comes along as a bit sexist, but I think the issues are a little more complicated and there are dynamics to consider.

      As for your question of why would teenagers want to go into such a career, there are plenty of alienated, self-isolating teenage boys who are attracted to the idea of working somewhere without the social challenges that rub their noses into the fact that someone who spends all their time on computers and video games with like-minded and like-afflicted guys is, over the long term and in the larger scheme of things, a loser.

      Yeah, I strongly disagree with that being a typical primary motivation. Most of the time it's because people think that this is an industry that is the 'safest' to be in with many prospective jobs.

      take a look at all the guys now in their 20s and 30s (and 40s) whose "social life" is limited to playing video games with other guys or by themselves.

      I'm in this generation and my observation as to why has been due to few reasons, not all of which apply to all individuals:

      1) They find gaming fun.
      2) They don't have really any social circles that interests them, so no reason to do otherwise.
      3) Other hobbies are expensive (for example, in my case I have other hobbies in amateur radio, hiking, fishing, hacker space events and building cars are far more expensive in my experience).
      4) They have no exposure to anything else.
      5) A fear of failure.

      In the past, these guys didn't have such activities (coding and video games) to retreat into

      I disagree strongly, I mean, some of the other hobbies I'm into have been around for centuries and they can be solitary if you want.

      I think the biggest change in recent times has been from the change in marriage values, where a man who isn't married isn't viewed as suspicious and untrustworthy. Further, with the changes in society (I base this off observations I've seen in in Mormon churches here that appear to be very traditional here), I believe the lack of replacement for society's prestige and moral values in the past which lead men to find their roles to provide for others and held highly in a family and society is no longer an incentive to continue down such paths has created this situation. While modern society views the old ways as inappropriate, it never actually replaced these value systems which in my opinion has created the current situation we see today with men who are satisfied with life as you have described in a later post. We can see what the future will bring just by looking at Japan.

      We're conducting a vast experiment in eugenics - will those "bros" who fail to breed in sufficient numbers eventually drop out of the gene pool, leaving the human race more resistant to becoming compulsively focused on a very limited set of activities, or is it like gambling and other addictions, where there will always be a sucker born every minute?

      I very much imagine this behavior will continue because it's an issue with how society is constructed, not a gene problem.

      This, as much as the toxic environment towards women in much of tech, may help explain why women tend to look to other fields.

      I only ever experienced a toxic environment towards women in East European countries and thy have a lot more women in IT than what I see in Western Europe, where I have not really witnessed anything different of what I see in consultancy in other industries. Anecdotally, this doesn't make sense and I have worked across a lot of different industries, companies and locations due to being a bit of a nomad and a consultant/contractor.

      I do commonly see one behavior consistently across industries and that is women leaving work early (I suspect they are abusing flexible hour schemes, as I rarely see these hours made up later) an

      --
      Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
    197. Re:Well... by fche · · Score: 1

      "You can make fictional people be anything you want, that's what fiction is."

      People might not notice when someone is message-fictioning to them a little bit. But if it's overt and purposeful, it will repel those whose politics are not in line with the creator. "But it's only fiction" is not an all-powerful defence - if anything it's cynical.

    198. Re: Well... by anarkhos · · Score: 1

      What we need are more females typing on inexplicably noisy keyboards going bleep bleep bleep while a camera zooms in Jason Borne style while the music builds up the tension until....."I'm in!"

      --
      >80 column hard wrapped e-mail is not a sign of intelligent
      >life
    199. Re: Well... by anarkhos · · Score: 1

      Well, Tropic Thunder WAS a pretty good documentary

      --
      >80 column hard wrapped e-mail is not a sign of intelligent
      >life
    200. Re: Well... by GuB-42 · · Score: 1

      In other words, the casting decision not only doesn't reflect how things really work, but it actively reinforces a stereotype.

      Yes, that's what I think. Unless they want to make a point.

      For example, putting a black girl as a hacker (i.e. breaking the stereotype) is good if you want the character to grab the audience attention, but then you have to devote some bit of the story to her as a person rather than just the button pusher than comes with the computer. It can also be used as a cheap trick when your story doesn't manage to stand on its own : "hey guys, I have this generic idea for a movie to be poorly executed, but I made the hacker a black girl, so at least, there is something to talk about".

      There is, I think, an attention budget that filmmakers have to manage. And if they decide to spend part of that budget breaking a stereotype, it means there is less for other elements. It is just like how professional photographers frame a picture so that only it shows only what they want to show and then use depth-of-field to blur out unnecessary details.

    201. Re: Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I also know a few guys outside IT whose entire life outside work is gaming.

      50 years ago, their entire life outside work would be 'drinking'. Some people are hopeless, and computers have merely given them a few new arenas.

    202. Re: Well... by doctorvo · · Score: 1

      When I think "who do I think would make a good President,"

      BarbaraHudson wasn't talking about "who makes a good president". She was talking about the people who vote for the president, and she held US voters in disdain, like many Democrats: "You are deplorable people, now shut up and vote for me."

    203. Re: Well... by doctorvo · · Score: 1

      What we need are more females typing on inexplicably noisy keyboards

      Personally, I think what we really need is more naked, well-endowed, muscular males typing on inexplicably noisy keyboards while a camera zooms in Jason Borne style (and not on the screen) while the music builds up the tension until....."I'm in!"

    204. Re:Well... by voss · · Score: 1

      No whats been happening is that hollywood somewhat creates the reality they put on the screen many early programmers and mathmeticians
      were women and programming was considered a field for women until the 1960s. In fact the percentage of women studying computer science was higher in 1980 than it is now. The hollywood stereotype of the white male nerd became a self-fufilling prophecy

    205. Re: Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The Norwegians ? The Australians ? I thought this was about Americans ? Most Americans can't even afford to go to the dentist. It's a nation of tiny numbers of uber rich at the top, and huge masses of peasants below.

    206. Re:Well... by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      You claimed it was invented before, but you didn't offer a link to any patent as proof. Also, everyone builds upon prior discoveries - that's how we progress. Same as Edison didn't invent the light bulb, and Bell didn't invent the telephone, and Marconi didn't invent radio (it's even worse in these three cases - others had already invented and built working devices). Discovering that you can boil water doesn't give you any sort of claim of contributing to the invention of the steam engine. Discovering that air from a fire rises because it expands from heat doesn't give you any claim towards inventing the hot-air balloon.

      If you didn't put it all together to produce something new and patentable, you didn't invent it and can't claim credit for it. That all the necessary ingredients were already present is irrelevant, same as knowing all the letters in the alphabet doesn't give you any sort of claim to the ensuing literature, or buying all the ingredients of a cake doesn't mean you get credit for baking the cake unless you actually bake it.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    207. Re: Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Case in point: making Rich Purnell a young black guy in The Martian.

      He's not described as any particular race in the book, to my memory, though he is portrayed as the stereotypical single-minded male nerd savant (and of course a slob) who puts hacking in front of all other considerations.

      In the book, he's annoying for being a stereotype. In the movie he's just Aspie as hell, and making him black only distracts the viewer by breaking the stereotype. "Why did they make him black?" becomes the focus of the character.

      I hated the way the character was written in the movie. You have a meeting with the head of NASA and not only don't know his name, but have to explain a slingshot maneuver to him with a stapler?? He was much better in the book.

    208. Re: Well... by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 0

      You're using evaluations for a university position as "proof"? Are you nuts? University jobs are about as far from the real world as you can get. Just as the level of pettiness (who's got the slightly bigger office, etc) and political backstabbing beats anything in the real world.

      As for your "explanation" of the wage gap, it still exists even when hours worked are controlled for. And what is this bullshit about "danger" of being outside? Most :"outside" jobs are done in civilized areas, and most of those are done sitting in the driver/operator seat. A power shovel with full suspension seat, full sound system, sound proofing, shock isolation, and easy-to-operate controls is not hard work. (I've done it, so I speak from experience). As for commute and schedule flexibility, these apply equally to both sexes, except that given that women tend to have more menial jobs, the commute and schedule flexibility burden falls more on us than on men. Same with graveyard shift. Plenty of women there, everything from cleaning and restocking stores to overnight health care. Ask any nurse about killer schedules and unscheduled extra work being dumped on them.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    209. Re: Well... by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 0

      10 years is more than enough time for a 10-year-old to reach the age of majority and make an informed decision. Here it's 18, or 16 with adequate adult supervision and guidance, which is far more conservative than abortion, which is available to 14-year-olds on demand without their parents being informed or having any right to see the medical records, same as for any other medical procedure except a sex change.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    210. Re: Well... by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 0

      Can't refute the logic, so you stoop to name calling. Do I dare say "typical juvenile male slashdot behaviour"? Yes, I do.

      You've just proven it again - tech is a shitty field for women to get into because of the behaviour of men who refuse to grow up.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    211. Re: Well... by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      Don't compare "trannies" (which includes cross-dressers, drag queens, etc) with transsexuals. Two completely different kettles of fish. The first is a sexual fetish, the second a recognized medical condition with a treatment protocol with a 98% success rate - far better than almost all other major medical interventions. Certainly better than the 65% of gastric band patients who express regret.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    212. Re: Well... by hey! · · Score: 1

      Frankly think both sides of this debate are equally absurd, starting with calling what is shown in popular entertainment "Computer Science". It's usually just a sloppy plot device but if it fell into any category it's usually highly unrealistic pen testing.

      I question whether people really by this kind of propagandistic career advice; I mean, shouldn't you know something about an individual before you steer her toward a particular field? Particularly one in which her career is apt to be relatively short? On the flip side I find people who act offended by seeing people different from them on the screen utterly ridiculous.

      I feel about STEM the way C.S. Lewis felt about poetry -- which he loved naturally. But he viewed educational attempts to make poetry "interesting" were just plain stupid. He thought there is nothing that will kill someone's enthusiasm for a thing than ham-fisted attempts to manipulate them into liking it. And in my experience that's especially true of teenagers.

      Lewis's solution to producing the next generation of poets is worth considering for STEM too. Make sure everyone is adequately *educated* in poetry, and then those with a natural affinity for poetry will naturally like it. Now insofar as the evidence shows that girls in school are not getting the STEM education they ought to be, that ought to be fixed, whether the cause is unconscious sexism or something else. But I think the focus on media isn't so much evidence-based as it is a reflection of our our obsession with media celebrity.

      If we need more STEM brainpower, what we have to do is make sure everybody is trained to a certain minimal level in it. Then we need to ensure that talented people with the interest in STEM have a practical path to advanced knowledge regardless of their family wealth or geographic location, from K-8 enrichment all the way up to the terminal degree offered in each field.

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    213. Re: Well... by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      Fucking idiot who failed reading comprehension. I'll quote the relevant part again:

      the higher mortality rates are in comparison with the general populace (and not other transgender people who have not received treatment) and only apply to people who transitioned before 1989:

      Go buy a calendar. You're 3 decades out of date.

      Also, the shrink's report clearly states no other conditions were found except for anxiety disorder (ptsd) and major depressive disorder, which is understandable for someone who's had to see a murder up close and personal as a kid, and been violently sexually assaulted more recently.

      So no, no narcissism. You're projecting yet again.

      As for who is superior, by any objective measure, I am. Unlike you, who hasn't done anything but go to the gym, play video games, and shit-post on the internet for decades. You've got to be pretty scummy to attack a retired half-blind grandmother, who's also a rape victim, who spends 3-4 days a week working for a charity rather than sitting on their ass doing nothing.

      There really is nothing more to say about it. You're a piece of shit who tries to drag others down because you can't do any better yourself.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    214. Re: Well... by Immerman · · Score: 1

      The obvious answer being "Why not"?

      The very idea that a person' race, if not white, has some sort of story significance is a symptom of the problem.

      --
      --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
    215. Re: Well... by Immerman · · Score: 0

      You are not entitled to a "safe space" at the expense of others. Especially not at work, where doing so necessarily deprives other people of a career path.

      What you *should* be entitled to is not being attacked or driven out of *whatever* space you want to be in. If you want to be surrounded by others like yourself, find such a space to spend your free time in. Otherwise learn to tolerate women, Asians, black people, transgendered, etc, etc, etc. It's not that hard, all you have to do is stop giving a fuck what they are besides human. You're an adult now (or so it sounds), act like it.

      --
      --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
    216. Re: Well... by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      Quoting yet another out of date study. This is 2017, and the more recent studies of estrogen use find ONLY benefits. Decreased risk of stroke, cardiovascular problems, etc. The study you quoted followed people taking estrogen before 1997, when only horse estrogen was used. Human estrogen doesn't have negative side effects because it's not horse estrogen, and doesn't contain over 50 contaminants. Again, buy a calendar. I've linked to the benefits of human estrogen before, so quit the lying.

      And even that study said. and you quoted, the increased mortality rate was mainly due to non-hormonal reasons. The biggy is AIDS - which I don't have and will never get.

      And remember, I'm not like you, who hasn't done anything but go to the gym, play video games, and shit-post on the internet for decades. You've got to be pretty scummy to attack a retired half-blind grandmother, who's also a rape victim, who spends 3-4 days a week working for a charity rather than sitting on their ass doing nothing.

      There really is nothing more to say about it. You're a piece of shit who tries to drag others down because you can't do any better yourself

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    217. Re: Well... by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      Nope. These are reviews, not actual clinical studies. Notice the name of one of the authors on one of them: Zucker - the same guy whose mis-diagnosis of children and subsequent abuse of them by trying to use reparative therapy got the CAMH gender clinic closed down. Also, the very first reference (and several others) on the other is to this same discredited asshole.

      I'll say it again: As for who is superior, by any objective measure, I am. Unlike you, who hasn't done anything but go to the gym, play video games, and shit-post on the internet for decades. You've got to be pretty scummy to attack a retired half-blind grandmother, who's also a rape victim, who spends 3-4 days a week working for a charity rather than sitting on their ass doing nothing.

      There really is nothing more to say about it. You're a piece of shit who tries to drag others down because you can't do any better yourself.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    218. Re: Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because tokenism.

      Making him black isn't itself a problem. Making him black because "we need some black people in the movie" is.

    219. Re:Well... by epyT-R · · Score: 1

      Basically they want to decouple the 'undesirable' 'anti-social' nerd stereotype from the public perceptions of smart people's accomplishments, then associate them with people that have more attractive/politically acceptable traits. Essentially, it's 20th century discrimination against nerds, except this time it's for Great SocJus. So much for tolerance and diversity.

      Society likes benefiting from the results of the efforts of smart people but doesn't want to deal with character traits it doesn't like, and these marxists are taking full advantage of that. They're bigoted hypocrites across multiple axes.

    220. Re: Well... by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      Yet another literature review using obsolete sources. What an idiot.

      I'll say it again: I am better than you. Unlike you, who hasn't done anything but go to the gym, play video games, and shit-post on the internet for decades. You've got to be pretty scummy to attack a retired half-blind grandmother, who's also a rape victim, who spends 3-4 days a week working for a charity rather than sitting on their ass doing nothing.

      There really is nothing more to say about it. You're a piece of shit who tries to drag others down because you can't do any better yourself.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    221. Re: Well... by epyT-R · · Score: 1

      Seems terribly destructive for society in the long term.

    222. Re: Well... by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      Being afraid to ask for a job is now "performance anxiety"? No, your lack of a sex life is performance ... well, not anxiety, but performance failure.

      I'll say it again: I am better than you. Unlike you, who hasn't done anything but go to the gym, play video games, and shit-post on the internet for decades. You've got to be pretty scummy to attack a retired half-blind grandmother, who's also a rape victim, who spends 3-4 days a week working for a charity rather than sitting on their ass doing nothing.

      There really is nothing more to say about it. You're a piece of shit who tries to drag others down because you can't do any better yourself.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    223. Re: Well... by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      Nope. The guy who buries his head in his smartphone at supper is quickly replaced by others who want to sit with me when he's not around. As for the incident where everyone had their heads buried in their smartphones, they were like that before I got there, and the pattern continues to this day. Has nothing to do with me.

      I'll say it again: I am better than you, and smarter than you. Unlike you, who hasn't done anything but go to the gym, play video games, and shit-post on the internet for decades. You've got to be pretty scummy to attack a retired half-blind grandmother, who's also a rape victim, who spends 3-4 days a week working for a charity rather than sitting on their ass doing nothing.

      There really is nothing more to say about it. You're a piece of shit who tries to drag others down because you can't do any better yourself.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    224. Re: Well... by Immerman · · Score: 1

      Why not? What does it cost the movie if bit-actor #27 is black instead of white? Heck, replace most of the main characters with a more realistic mix of races and genders, and what doe it cost the movie? Just write the characters like people instead of a mass of stereotypes (i.e. give them basically the same lines and scenes as if they were white men), and ignore the differences. Same damned movie, just with more obvious difference to help keep track of which character is which.

      --
      --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
    225. Re: Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You've got to be pretty scummy to attack a retired half-blind grandmother, who's also a rape victim, who spends 3-4 days a week working for a charity rather than sitting on their ass doing nothing.

      Christ, can you even hear yourself? You go all ballistic on people and when they retaliate, you pull out your shield of victimhood. And you tell other people to grow the fuck up? This is playground tattletale behavior.

      Hint: You aren't being attacked for being half-blind, a grandmother, a rape victim or a charity worker. You're attacked because you self-righteously lecture everyone while betraying your own hypocrisy.

    226. Re: Well... by epyT-R · · Score: 2

      These are just kids we're talking about, mostly extremely image-conscious, and expected to choose a career path based on media portrayal and far too little solid information.

      This image conscious attitude should not be coddled, especially if the goal is a career in a STEM field. The truth cares not for self image or the perception of others. If the media is what's responsible for reenforcing the assumption that competency is measured by social conformance and dress codes (or socjus garbage), then that is the problem to deal with, not adding more distortions to the pile just to make the field more appealing to people who care more about those things than the truth. Such people will hold back progress as they will greatly outnumber the competent, less extraverted, and eventually crowd them out, replacing them with mediocrity.

      I'll pass.

    227. Re: Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because it's NOT a more realistic mix of races and genders, it's a distracting and transparent attempt to make the audience think it's a realistic mix. It feels forced.

      Then again, the movie does take place in the future; perhaps NASA will be 50% black people in 2040, who knows. Given the current percentages of minorities in STEM majors, that seems unlikely.

    228. Re: Well... by ArmoredDragon · · Score: 1

      I'll say it again: I am better than you, and smarter than you. Unlike you, who hasn't done anything but go to the gym, play video games, and shit-post on the internet for decades. You've got to be pretty scummy to attack a retired half-blind grandmother, who's also a rape victim, who spends 3-4 days a week working for a charity rather than sitting on their ass doing nothing.

      Self-aggrandizement. Predictable behavior.

    229. Re: Well... by ArmoredDragon · · Score: 1

      Aside from your invoking of the genetic fallacy, I like how you immediately jump to self-aggrandizement as a means of validation. It is predictable, as I mentioned earlier.

    230. Re: Well... by ArmoredDragon · · Score: 0

      It's a classic example of narcissism.

    231. Re:Well... by epyT-R · · Score: 1

      The MLK style social justice of old trek is NOT the same thing as today's 'SocJus.'

    232. Re: Well... by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      Aww, poor baby got a boo-boo on his ego. Fortunately, everyone I know in real life thinks:

      1. I'm a great listener
      2. I'm dependable
      3. I'm good with animals
      4. I'm funny when called for, serious when needed
      5. I'm always ready to help
      6. I have great legs (that's mostly other women saying it).

      I just have zero tolerance for trolls on the web. So shit in my cornflakes all you want, but if you come around here and say anything against me, you'll get an earful from my neighbors and those I work with. I've proven my worth time and time again. You see, slashdot isn't real life, and the rules are different. Assholes go out of their way to attack me first, then get all butt-hurt when I hit back. Over and over and over, in every thread they see me post in. They're pitiful little worms. Actually, lower than worms. I have compassion for worms, when I see one drowning in a puddle on the sidewalk after a rain, I put it in the grass.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    233. Re: Well... by epyT-R · · Score: 1

      Despite your 'in-cel' anecdotes, there are many people in the field who really just don't give a shit about mating or relationships, or at least don't want to make the crazy sacrifices society expects in order to do so. I know that's hard for most to understand, but it is the truth. It's cheaper and simpler to stay single. Whether it's gaming or anything else, it allows more time to focus on what's important. Fewer and fewer guys want the family/relationship routine, especially in today's anti-male political climate, which has indoctrinated many people with attitudes like yours and those found in the culture at google.

      You can talk about 'safe spaces' all you want, but the real 'safe spaces' are demanded by those who think their feelings should matter more to others than facts. The people who go into IT do it because their temperaments often end up being good at it while its culture is defined by that temperament's preference of not having to be social every minute of every day. Less talking, more thinking is the norm. Now people such as yourself and google want to impose an artificially constructed, politically correct culture on them by altering the perception of IT culture to try drawing those who are likely ill suited for it. I understand google wants to lower the cost of labor in the field, but this will just make everyone miserable and less productive.

    234. Re: Well... by ArmoredDragon · · Score: 1

      Fucking idiot who failed reading comprehension. I'll quote the relevant part again:

      Try again: That was arguing against the statistics that showed that transpeople had higher suicide rates after surgery, which was indeed true. After 1989, it went from being higher to being roughly the same as those who didn't have surgery, which still remains >40%.

      Pretty big fail on your part here.

      Also, the shrink's report clearly states no other conditions were found except for anxiety disorder (ptsd) and major depressive disorder, which is understandable for someone who's had to see a murder up close and personal as a kid, and been violently sexually assaulted more recently.

      Just like you had people pull out full page ads and/or had them arrested for saying things bad about you, in spite of there being no Canadian law whatsoever that would allow you to win such a lawsuit to begin with? Really, those statements of yours about Canadian law can not have possibly been true. But let's play that game yet again: Provide the court records, or it didn't happen.

      This also seems inconsistent with your previous statements about being sexually assaulted numerous times. If those other events really happened, it seems unlikely that you would omit them here.

      As for who is superior, by any objective measure, I am.

      One other interesting thing about this is I never made any comparison between you and myself beyond the observation that you repeatedly try to claim a moral high ground, which isn't a comparison at all. In fact I don't think any person on this planet is superior to another person, rather they're all just different. But on the same token, there is no such thing as equality either. The fact that you think you are superior to another person just confirms everything I've said about you.

    235. Re: Well... by Immerman · · Score: 1

      A bigger problem is that white people are the default choice. Usually even for characters that were another race in the original material.

      --
      --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
    236. Re: Well... by Immerman · · Score: 1

      It doesn't need to be coddled - it seems to be an evolutionary holdover from a time when the teenage years were an essential time for integrating with the tribe and finding a mate. As such it's not something we can "just get rid of" - doing so would require genetic changes to our species. The best we can do is recognize it and attempt to counteract it - which we generally do with about the same level of success as any other attempt at teenager behavior modification.

      It's also important to note that teenagers are NOT fully-formed people capable of making adult decisions - their brains are fundamentally different from adults. For example, the areas responsible for emotional regulation, etc. typically don't finish growing until the early twenties.

      And If you'll re-read my post I'm not suggesting introducing distortions - I'm suggesting that we remove them to make the media representation truer to the typical reality.

      --
      --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
    237. Re: Well... by ArmoredDragon · · Score: 1

      Yet another literature review using obsolete sources. What an idiot.

      The oldest source it cites is from 2000, with the newest being 2015, and most of them being around 2013. What makes you say it is obsolete?

    238. Re: Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They can't even get pirates right. I heard about a new pirate movie and decided to check it out. Boy was I disappointed. It was all about people on ships. WTF? I wanted frantic downloading, trucks full of had drives, sketchy billionaires, and midnight raids by Female Body Inspectors. The movie didn't have a single computer...

    239. Re: Well... by ArmoredDragon · · Score: 1

      Being afraid to ask for a job is now "performance anxiety"?

      Very much so. There's the concern that one might ask in a wrong way so as to ruin their chances of getting the job.

      No, your lack of a sex life is performance ... well, not anxiety, but performance failure.

      I've never quite understood why you have repeatedly expressed an interest in my sex life. Why is that?

    240. Re: Well... by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 0

      I will most certainly continue to be judgmental against trolls like ArmoredDragon who make it a point of launching personal attacks whenever they encounter my posts as a way for them to feel better about themselves. Now, let me fill you in on the approval process for surgery, and why he's full of shit about his claims that I am a narcissist. Before approving you, they have to look for contra-indications, such as underlying mental problems, psychosis, delusional thinking, mania, etc. that may underlie the stated desire to change sex. No doing it because you want to run away from personal problems, or because you think it will magically change every aspect of your life for the better, open doors for jobs or opportunities, flee from past mistakes, etc. No personality disorders whatsoever. Otherwise, do not pass go, do not collect your approval letter, etc, until it is resolved, and possibly never. The strict vetting is one of the reasons why SRS has one of the highest success rates of any surgical medical intervention.

      I'll take the word of 6 psychiatrists, a clinical psychologist, a therapist, and several other medical professionals, all of whom have seen me, over that asshole any day. My therapist was nice enough to share the results of all that while helping me deal with PTSD, and I also have the approval letter stating as much.

      If you think there's ANY basis to his claims, you're being trolled. That's what he does. It's not like he has done anything constructive with his life all these years, so this is how he denies to himself that he's a waste of oxygen - even though it proves he's a waste of oxygen. Slashdot has become more and more of a collector for people who are bitter about their personal lives being such a waste, same as IT is especially attractive to people who lack social skills and retreat to the safety of relative isolation. It's also why so many women find IT toxic. Just read all the comments from guys who hate women because they got turned down when they were 18 and "needed someone." That's pretty objectifying of women - we're just there as a tool to help men feel adequate, instead of human beings who have every right to say no.

      When I say no, I do it as gently as possible. I admit that others are not so tactful - but that applies to both sides. Guys on the subway who grope me and try to shove their tongue down my throat at 10 am don't deserve such consideration. Nor the ones who think it's okay to grab a tit out of the blue. Nor the ones who offer me money. But the rest of the guys, as long as they keep a civil tongue in their head and their hands to themselves, I am as polite as can be in my refusal, even if it's the 3rd or 5th or 10th time.

      I certainly don't hate men. Heck, I used to be one myself. But that's also why I really, really know how some men think - I've repeatedly seen the bad behaviour among them when no other women were present and I hadn't yet transitioned, including an employer who stated that he would NEVER EVER hire a woman. Doesn't matter how qualified. Why? Because the guys would be "too distracted." Is this fair, that qualified women are barred from consideration because men can't control themselves? That I would never even been considered post-transition, because "women are a distraction?" I can't count the times I've stood there listening to nasty jokes and misogynist talk and felt like a traitor to both myself and all other women for not speaking out more forcefully.

      That's my problem - I've seen both sides, and everyone who denies that the world isn't sexist is so self-deluded it isn't funny. They should try walking in my shoes for a while. I've experienced male privilege first-hand, as well as its' loss. But I wouldn't go back because what I've gained is, to me, so much better. The freedom to be me turned me from an introvert into an extrovert. I've got plenty of women who are on my side now. They know what I've given up in terms of status and power simply by virtue of being a man, because that status and power is rubbed into our faces ro

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    241. Re: Well... by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      Choreographed. :-) Then again, I've only seen it while channel-flipping --- and continued flipping REALLY fast :-)

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    242. Re: Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > They can't even get pirates right.

      But when they get them wrong it's glorious!

    243. Re: Well... by ArmoredDragon · · Score: 1

      Quoting yet another out of date study. This is 2017, and the more recent studies of estrogen use find ONLY benefits. Decreased risk of stroke, cardiovascular problems, etc. The study you quoted followed people taking estrogen before 1997, when only horse estrogen was used. Human estrogen doesn't have negative side effects because it's not horse estrogen, and doesn't contain over 50 contaminants. Again, buy a calendar. I've linked to the benefits of human estrogen before, so quit the lying.

      And you base this on...absolutely nothing. In fact, I looked at more recent research which shows that it raises blood pressure, increases risk of blood clotting (stroke, heart attack,) blood sugar, water retention, liver damage, and disruption of electrolyte balance (which can manifest in a dangerous condition called hyeprkalemia.)

      https://apps.carleton.edu/camp...

      There really is nothing more to say about it. You're a piece of shit who tries to drag others down because you can't do any better yourself

      I don't need to drag you down even if I wanted to; you already do a pretty good job of it without my help.

    244. Re: Well... by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      2) They don't have really any social circles that interests them, so no reason to do otherwise.
      4) They have no exposure to anything else.
      5) A fear of failure.

      You can't expect to get exposure to anything else if you don't put yourself out there. It's a self-fulfilling vicious circle. Same as people who don't know who their neighbors are. What is so hard about knocking on their door and introducing yourself and inviting them over for a coffee? I do it whenever I see someone moving in. It's not hard. It's not scary. It's not creepy (okay, I can see how it could be creepy if a man did it, so this is one area where women should take the initiative, if only to compensate for the distrust society has sown towards men - even against each other), but I don't see ANYONE else doing it, of either sex.

      As a society, we've become a bunch of unfriendly losers.

      3) Other hobbies are expensive (for example, in my case I have other hobbies in amateur radio, hiking, fishing, hacker space events and building cars are far more expensive in my experience).

      There are other activities that are cheap, or even free, that will put you together with like-minded people. For example, now that I'm retired, I volunteer 3 to 4 days a week (sometimes more) at the local food bank. I've met loads of people that way - other volunteers, people working off their community service, clients, flood victims who've lost everything. There are plenty of volunteer jobs that need people willing to help others, and yet, with all the people saying that they don't have anything else to do or don't know what else they can do to meet others, these jobs still go begging for people.

      You can always go volunteer at the local animal shelter (a word of warning - it will probably break your heart). Offer to sit down for a coffee or tea with one of the residents at the local senior's place once a week - you'll make their day, and they're not as boring as you'd think. Help out at the local community center.

      The most any of these costs is transportation. If you can bike or hike it, it's effectively free.

      But people don't do it because they're afraid, as you pointed out, of failure, aka rejection.

      That leaves #1

      1) They find gaming fun.

      Sure it's fun. It's also fun to have a board game night where you can invite a bunch of friends over to play Risk, Monopoly, poker ("are you feeling lucky, punk? :-) ), Pictionary, dominoes, whatever. Here, people set the pace instead of the machine, so there's time to take a break to eat and socialize, same as when you get knocked out of play. It takes the sting out of losing to the point that you really don't care who wins - it's the socializing that's fun. And all these games are pretty much accessible to anyone who wants to learn them, even if they're low vision or slow reaction time or not-the-best motor control or have to take frequent pee breaks

      My casual observations is that women choose their pairing more on educational level matching theirs rather than any other metric.

      Amen to that. One person pointing out things that are obvious to them but not to the other gets old and corrosive pretty fast. But trolling mensa isn't an option - one of the members is a guy I testified against at his murder trial. Plus I think mensa is for losers who are obviously not THAT intelligent if, unlike 99.7% of all geniuses, they are stupid enough to pay to join it. What a scam. It's like that "I am rich" iPhone app. Proof of the old adage that a fool and their money are quickly (and in this case easily) parted.

      I don't know. Maybe I'll just have to settle for mind-blowing sex. :-)

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    245. Re: Well... by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 0

      I also know a few guys outside IT whose entire life outside work is gaming.

      50 years ago, their entire life outside work would be 'drinking'. Some people are hopeless, and computers have merely given them a few new arenas.

      I'll drink to that (joke, joke).

      That has got to be THE most insightful, informative comment of the day.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    246. Re: Well... by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      When they retaliate? Try when they start shit. I'm the one retaliating, been like that for quite a long time. This guy really has a thing for transsexuals. Why he thinks it's important to prove that I can't possibly be happy is beyond me, except for the fact that he's a useless no-life who has nothing better to contribute.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    247. Re: Well... by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      Truth hurts, doesn't it? You should learn to show some respect your betters - which is the vast majority of slashdot users.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    248. Re: Well... by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      So you don't think it's okay to "attack a retired half-blind grandmother, who's also a rape victim, who spends 3-4 days a week working for a charity rather than sitting on their ass doing nothing" constructive like you? Thanks for the clarification.

      I'm happier as I am. That's all that counts - not your repeated insistence that that is impossible. Get over it. There's something seriously wrong with you that in every thread you see me post, you immediately post shit about how I can't be happy, links to obsolete articles written by specialists who have since been exposed as frauds who have been fired, etc. Freak.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    249. Re: Well... by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 0

      Denial is strong with this one, grasshopper.

      This may come as a surprise to you, but more and more it's women who don't want the family/relationship routine. And as for "false construct" - all of society is a false, man-made construct. Get over it.

      Also, I pointed out something you completely ignored - the problem of men retreating to games because they are socially inept is not limited to IT. So all your ranting about google, etc., is irrelevant.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    250. Re: Well... by doctorvo · · Score: 1

      You are not entitled to a "safe space" at the expense of others.

      We haven't been talking about "safe spaces" and I never asked for one. What we have been talking about is how Google is using Hollywood to manipulate public perceptions and meddle in people's decision making. And while Google's actions are legal, they are not just ridiculously ineffective, they are also counterproductive to the very goals (tolerance, acceptance, diversity, etc.) Google is trying to achieve. I'm sorry you lack the maturity and personal experience to see that.

      Otherwise learn to tolerate women, Asians, black people, transgendered, etc, etc, etc. It's not that hard

      You don't know me. In fact, the companies I've run and the people I have hired have always been far more diverse than companies like Google. See, diversity isn't about throwing millions at Hollywood, as Google is doing, it's about taking the time to actually individually help people. I.e., it's the opposite of the crap you and Google are peddling.

    251. Re: Well... by doctorvo · · Score: 1

      Lewis's solution to producing the next generation of poets is worth considering for STEM too. Make sure everyone is adequately *educated* in poetry, and then those with a natural affinity for poetry will naturally like it. Now insofar as the evidence shows that girls in school are not getting the STEM education they ought to be, that ought to be fixed,

      I'm not sure what kind of high school you went to, but in the US and Europe, there hasn't been segregation by gender in a long time. If girls don't take math and computer science as much as boys in high school, that reflects their preferences, not a lack of opportunity. The simple fact remains: girls and women simply don't like computer science that much relative to other choices open to them, and that's why they are underrepresented. Gender disparities exist in many fields, across cultures and across countries; they idea that all of these are due to discrimination is simply not born out by the data.

    252. Re: Well... by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      What a loser. I won. The law allows for monetary damages (of which I only asked that they make a donation to charity) and for them to publish a public apology, which they agreed to.

      We have hate speech laws in our criminal code (section 319), so it's my right to have anyone engaging in hate arrested, charged, and jailed for up to two years if indicted and convicted.

      The fact that you claim that no person is superior to any other shows how deluded you are. You'd give Hitler, Goebbels, Pol Pot, and Stalin a pass just so you don't have to admit that some people, including you, are inferior.

      Now you're just boring me.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    253. Re: Well... by ArmoredDragon · · Score: 1

      The truth is that people really do try to avoid you. You first mentioned people avoiding you by using their smartphones as if it was an ongoing thing, but now you refer to it as a single event once I showed you what was really happening here. At least try to keep your lies consistent.

    254. Re: Well... by ArmoredDragon · · Score: 1

      So you don't think it's okay

      What I'm saying is that you're lying about it, just as I was able to prove that you made other intentionally false statements.

      That's all that counts - not your repeated insistence that that is impossible.

      I haven't done this, even once.

    255. Re: Well... by ArmoredDragon · · Score: 1

      What a loser. I won. The law allows for monetary damages (of which I only asked that they make a donation to charity) and for them to publish a public apology, which they agreed to.

      If this is true, then it should be easy for you to prove it by citing the exact statute involved that permits you to collect damages for somebody offending you in public. And yet you don't, because you can't, because it's false.

      We have hate speech laws in our criminal code (section 319), so it's my right to have anyone engaging in hate arrested, charged, and jailed for up to two years if indicted and convicted.

      That's for a public incitement of hatred against a group. It doesn't work when somebody says things that are directed at you personally, and you certainly can't sue somebody based on this, rather the person would only be subject to criminal sanctions. Nothing I've said here on slashdot would run afoul of that law, and nothing you've said you've sued people for would qualify either. Furthermore, you can't claim any monetary damages unless they were your employer or they were a business who did one of these things while you were trying to transact with them.

      Your statements about suing ordinary people are in fact false.

      The fact that you claim that no person is superior to any other shows how deluded you are.

      And the fact that you believe otherwise shows just how similar to Hitler, Goebbels, Pol Pot, and Stalin that you are.

      As I mentioned earlier, you're doing a really good job of bringing yourself down without my help.

    256. Re:Well... by pots · · Score: 1

      But if it's overt and purposeful, it will repel those whose politics are not in line with the creator.

      This is true, but you need to turn it into a point. So what? Why is this bad? Do we have to lowest-common-denominator everything? It is right and proper that not everyone should like everything.

      In this case, the message isn't intended for the people who don't want to see it. So nothing is lost if those people don't want to watch.

    257. Re: Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Same AC as before.

      I'm sure those people all love you to death, that's why they also avoid talking to you by looking at their phones.

      You also definitely are showing narcissistic tendencies. Everyone that knows you loves you, everyone that disagrees with how great you are is a troll. Of course /. isn't real life, but how you act on the internet is a reflection of who you really are.

      You claim you hit back because they hit first, a wise man once suggested the proper response is to turn the other cheek. You can ignore trolls and they will go away, they want a response and the more aggressive it is the more they'll come back for laughs. But no, you can't STAND that someone doesn't like you and you have to prove them WRONG.

      I don't know who you are in real life. I don't know how the people around you really feel about you. I'm not claiming to know anything other than what I've read here. What I've read here suggests that you have at the very least narcissistic tendencies, and would be unpleasant to be around even if you don't. It would be like having a friend that you like being around but steals from you every time you meet. Responding to some random person on the internet that doesn't like you with a list of the things you perceive that others like about you? That screams narcissist. You just can't stand that someone doesn't see how great you are in your own mind. The people around you more than likely don't want to die on that hill and will smile and wave and hope that they can just move on with their life.

      Again, I'll be blunt: Everything I've seen here suggests to me that I wouldn't want to be your friend. I wouldn't want to talk to you regularly. I don't care what your positive traits are because the negativity I see would NOT BE WORTH PUTTING UP WITH. Everything I've seen here indicates that you're a shitty human being. Everything.

    258. Re: Well... by epyT-R · · Score: 1

      A transsexual accusing others of denial.. Perhaps you're projecting your insecurities onto others.

      And as for "false construct" - all of society is a false, man-made construct. Get over it.

      I never said society wasn't a man made construction nor did I criticize it for that reason.

      - the problem of men retreating to games because they are socially inept is not limited to IT.

      Like I said, it isn't necessarily a problem so long as he's got a way to pay for his lifestyle without assistance. Who are you to decide how others should spend their free time? It's always a laugh when feminism bitches about men having expectations of women while joining in with the rest of society to bitch at men when they react by finding other things to do.

      Also, I pointed out something you completely ignored

      ..and just about all of your reply was to things I did not say.

    259. Re: Well... by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1
      Read what I wrote again. And then check the dates on the references. "Last access date" is not the date it was produced. The publication dates that are listed (as opposed to last access date) are earlier, except for the ones listed that are totally irrelevant to transsexuals.

      1. Education-Bureau. An eBook on Student Suicide for Schools: Early Detection, Intervention & Postvention (EDIP): Educational Psychology Service Section, School Administration and Support Division, Education Bureau. 2011 - irrelevant to transsexuals.

      2. Cochran SD, Mays VM. Lifetime prevalence of suicide symptoms and affective disorders among men reporting same-sex sexual partners: Irrelevant to transsexuals

      3. Proctor CD, Groze VK. Risk factors for suicide among gay, lesbian, and bisexual youths. Soc Work. 1994;39:504–13. [PubMed] Both irrelevant and - check the date - 1994, not 2000. Fucktard just proves once more he can't read.

      4. Remafedi G, Farrow JA, Deisher RW. Risk factors for attempted suicide in gay and bisexual youth. Pediatrics. 1991;87:869–75. [PubMed] Irrelevant to transsexuals. Come on, transsexuals are not necessarily gay, lesbian, or bi. And look at the date - 1991, not 2000.

      5. Russell ST, Joyner K. Adolescent sexual orientation and suicide risk: Evidence from a national study. Am J Public Health. 2001;91:1276–81. Again, about sexual orientation, totally irrelevant.

      6 goes to a bad link - retracted? No way to determine if it's relevant.

      7. United Nations Development Program. Hijras/Transgender in India: HIV, Human Rights And Social Exclusion TG Issue Brief. United Nations Development Programme (UNDP), India. 2010 - Hijras and transgenders in India are not the same as transsexuals. They are classified as a 3rd gender. So, once more irrelevant.

      8. NCTE. Preventing Transgender Suicide Washington: National Center for Transgender Equality. 2010. Yet another bad link, and judging from the title doesn't make the distinction between transsexuals and the various sorts of transgenders, a very common mistake. The two are not the same.

      9. Clements-Nolle K, Marx R, Katz M. Attempted suicide among transgender persons: The influence of gender-based discrimination and victimization. J Homosex. Fails to distinguish between pre-op and post-op suicide attempt rates, and totally fails to mention actual suicide rates.

      10. DiStefano AS. Suicidality and self-harm among sexual minorities in Japan. Irrelevant - transsexualism has nothing to do with sex. Transsexuals can be straight, lesbian, gay, bi, assexual ...

      11. Testa RJ, Sciacca LM, Wang F, Hendricks ML, Goldblum P, Bradford J, et al. Effects of violence on transgender people.. Not only irrelevant, but NO LINK.

      12. Rosenstreich G. LGBTI People Mental Health and Suicide. National LGBTI Health Alliance. 2011 Again, not relevant to transsexuals. Also, the source is of known dubious quality. And again, NO LINK.

      13. Nuno N, Elizabeth P, Allan T, Ian R. The RaRE Research Report: LGB & T Mental Health – Risc and Resilience Explored. London, England: PACE – Project for Advocacy Counselling and Education; 2015. Not limited to transsexuals, and NO LINK

      14. Budania SK. Rapid Assessment of Mental Health Needs and Planning of Mental Health Services for the Transgender (Hijras) Community. Bangalore: National Institute of Mental Health and Neuro Sciences (NIMHANS); 2012. Totally irrelevant. Transgender hirjas are not transsexuals. And again, NO LINK.

      15. Sridevi Sivakami PL, Veena KV. Social Exclusion have a negative impact on the health of the Transgender. Indian Streams Res J. 2011;1:1–4. Transgender Hirjas are not transsexuals. And yet again, NO LINK

      16. A Study on General Welbeing of Male to Female Transgenders Living in Chennai. 2010. PAGE NOT FOUND.

      17. Chakrapani V, Newman PA, Shunmugam M, McLuckie A, Melwin F. Structural violence against kothi-identified men who have sex with men in Chennai, India: A qualitative in

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    260. Re: Well... by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      ... says the guy who keeps bringing up my genitalia in every thread he sees me post in. And I'm only making a simple observation, while you devote so much time to trying to prove that I can't possibly be happy. Which makes sense since you are inferior, as demonstrated by the shitty research of your last post. You can't even tell the difference between 2000 and 1991. No wonder you're so behind the times.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    261. Re: Well... by war4peace · · Score: 1

      Why not? What does it cost the movie if bit-actor #27 is black instead of white?

      Nothing. But I was replying to this:
      "Add in a bunch of different Asian ethnicities, a smattering of other races, a few women who are actually competent and opinionated enough to hold their own, rather than just being eye-candy."

      Such attempt would transform the movie into a series of politically-correct stock images, much like the "business meeting" ones (reference: https://ak8.picdn.net/shutters...). It feels forced because it IS forced.

      A character's skin color is irrelevant, however forcing various races in a movie solely to appease SJWs is retarded.

      --
      ...gis sdrawkcab (usually not responding to ACs; don't bother posting as AC)
    262. Re: Well... by Immerman · · Score: 1

      Individually helping people is nice, but there are inevitably more people who fall through the cracks than are helped. Changing cultural portrayals can shape whole generations, reducing the number of problems in the first place.

      Both have their place - changing cultural presentations won't help anyone today, but it will help millions when those kids growing up in it become the ones making decisions. Helping people individually relieves suffering today, but does nothing to prevent further victimization in the future.

      --
      --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
    263. Re: Well... by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 0

      Things changed a lot since 2006 (and that pamphlet is based on even older data from the turn of the century). Here's something from this decade. Estrogen reduces inflammatory response. As for blood suger, you've got it backwards:

      In addition, recent research has shown that post-menopausal females exhibit increased incidence of type 2 diabetes, reduced insulin sensitivity, increased fat mass and increased systemic inflammatory markers [48]. These same features are seen in ovarictomized rodents, suggesting that estrogen may play a role in reducing the incidence of type 2 diabetes, insulin insensitivity and weight gain in aging females [48]. Human studies have suggested that HRT may protect against obesity-induced insulin resistance in older women in part by inducing increases in heat shock proteins (HSPs) [49–51]. These data suggest that estrogen and HRT could help limit the onset of type 2 diabetes in aging females [24, 49].

      Who doesn't want a reduced risk of type 2 diabetes, and less weight gain.

      Estrogen has been shown to provide damage protection in a range of other tissues, beyond muscle and bone, including cardiac, neural, hepatic and vascular tissues

      Who doesn't want better protection for their bones, heart, brain, liver and circulatory systems?

      Also, the benefits are now main-stream knowledge, including the big prize - a longer, healthier life.

      Women using hormone replacement therapy were found to be 30 per cent less likely to die than those not on hormone therapy, the study found.

      Women who use hormone replacement therapy to relieve the symptoms of menopause significantly improve their chances at a longer life due to a decreased risk of heart attack or stroke, according to new research.

      A study conducted at the Cedars-Sinai Medical Center in Los Angeles looked at the health records of more than 4,200 women who received coronary calcium scans between 1998 and 2012. The scans measure the amount of calcium in the heart’s arteries. Higher calcium levels indicate plaque build-up, which increases the risk of having a heart attack or stroke.

      Heart disease and stroke are the second and third most common causes of death in Canada, behind cancer, according to Statistics Canada.

      Hormone replacement therapy users were also found to be 20 per cent more likely to have a coronary calcium score of zero, the lowest possible score. And 36 per cent were less likely to score above 399, indicating a high risk for heart attack and severe atherosclerosis -- a hardening and narrowing of the arteries. Estrogen is believed to have a beneficial effect on heart health and cholesterol levels because it increases the flexibility of blood vessels and arteries, allowing for better blood flow.

      “Hormone replacement therapy resulted in lower atherosclerosis and improved survival for all age groups and for all levels of coronary calcium,” he said.

      What's not t like. Helps explain why my cholesterol levels are crazy good (HDL more than twice the target value, LDL less than half the target value), and why my red and white blood cells last much longer than average (less wear and tear from being forced through plaque-filled blood vessels). It also reduces the risk of strokes because it counter-acts hardening of the arteries.

      Ad the liver damage? That was a concern when people were using horse estrogen. Human estrogen doesn't have the same effect. And electrolyte balance (hyperkalemia) is a risk factor when using ethinyl estradiol (also linked to diabetes) and spironolactin, not when using estradiol and cyproterone acetate. Too bad that the US doesn't allow the use cyproterone acetate, unlike most of the rest of the world.

      So that leaves just

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    264. Re: Well... by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      The guy who shows up and then buries his head in his phone is showing up less and less, because he's pissing off everyone. Not just me. And it's not just a single event - it's an ongoing problem that actually makes everyone happier when he doesn't show up, and someone else can take his seat and actually participate in the conversation.

      Your imagination has no correlation to reality, except in your own mind.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    265. Re: Well... by epyT-R · · Score: 1

      I understand, but my point was that the culture in IT is defined by the personalities of the people who gravitate towards it and excel. Grafting in a new culture (ie using hollywood to spread propaganda of the 'New IT') to make the field more compelling to people who prioritize sociability or who meet equal-outcome quotas is indeed adding distortion. If this works at all, it will simply prioritize those traits over merit, driving out the best talent.

      Hollywood archetypes to tell a story. That's ok. Familiar character archetypes are needed so that the audience can identify with a character. The problem is that under the guise of fighting against such stereotyping, modern SocJus has simply replaced character archetypes (ie the white nerd) with others (ie the hip/cool black 'hacker'). I think that was the intention all along. Equal opportunity and merit are not compatible with ideological lensing.

    266. Re: Well... by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      The only one who's lied is you. Here's one of your latest examples. And just before that, misrepresenting a study that doesn't prove what you claim it does. You couldn't even get the decade (or century) right.

      You're boring me.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    267. Re: Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The fact it is inaccurate was probably considered to obvious to mention explicitly.

      So, have you stopped beating your wife yet?

      Or maybe this would be more like a "now I'm not saying this person raped and killed a girl, but why aren't they denying it?" type thing?

    268. Re: Well... by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1
      Civil law, at the provincial level

      CHAPTER I.1

      RIGHT TO EQUAL RECOGNITION AND EXERCISE OF RIGHTS AND FREEDOMS

      10. Every person has a right to full and equal recognition and exercise of his human rights and freedoms, without distinction, exclusion or preference based on race, colour, sex, gender identity or expression, pregnancy, sexual orientation, civil status, age except as provided by law, religion, political convictions, language, ethnic or national origin, social condition, a handicap or the use of any means to palliate a handicap. Discrimination exists where such a distinction, exclusion or preference has the effect of nullifying or impairing such right.

      10.1. No one may harass a person on the basis of any ground mentioned in section 10

      As for penalties, you can either negotiate an agreement, or go to a full hearing. If it goes to a hearing and your complaint is upheld, you can get material, moral, punitive damages.

      SUFFICIENT EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT THE COMPLAINT - CORRECTIVE MEASURES

      If the Complaints Committee believes that there is sufficient evidence to support the complaint, it may recommend any corrective measures it deems appropriate, for example, reinstate an employee, order that a person attend an anti-discrimination awareness program, or recommend material, moral and punitive damages. The respondent is given a specified period of time in order to implement corrective measures.

      If the respondent complies with the corrective measures, the file is closed.

      If the respondent does not comply with the corrective measures, the Complaints Committee may mandate the Commission to apply to a court to seek appropriate measures.

      Criminal law, at the federal level (Canadian criminal code, section 318)

      Definition of identifiable group

      (4) In this section, identifiable group means any section of the public distinguished by colour, race, religion, national or ethnic origin, age, sex, sexual orientation, gender identity or expression, or mental or physical disability.

      319 (1) Every one who, by communicating statements in any public place, incites hatred against any identifiable group where such incitement is likely to lead to a breach of the peace is guilty of

      (a) an indictable offence and is liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding two years; or

      (b) an offence punishable on summary conviction.

      It also relates to individual members of that group. What do you think "any section of the public distinguished by ... gender identity " means? Any section of the public doesn't specify a minimum number, in part because even promoting hatred against ONE member of the protected group will affect other members of the group (chilling effect, intimidation etc). This gives prosecutors a lot of flexibility. Same as if someone firebombs a muslim's car, they have committed a hate crime against a section of the public distinguished by religion, even if the car was only owned by one person.

      Boy, are you dumb. And boring.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    269. Re: Well... by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      The individual at the supper table who stares at his phone all the time playing games isn't just pissing me off. Everyone is happier on the days he doesn't show up.

      Also, as far as turning the other cheek, he still got nailed to the boards. Didn't work out so well, did it? I can get my entertainment and mental exercise by jerking trolls around. It's certainly more fun than looking at someone playing candy crush at dinner.

      So I'l be blunt - You don't know me, and you've fallen between a troll (ArmoredDragon) and a troll baiter (me). Been doing it since usenet days, and sometimes it's intellectually stimulating. I also come across nuggets of info while beating up on them, so my time isn't a waste. Knowledge is good, and you never know what will prove invaluable at some point in the future.

      But now I'm bored with this guy. It's become just more bullshit lies and references that don't say what he claims, or cite dead links, or cite authorities that have subsequently been discredited but he doesn't know it because he doesn't know the field, or whatever. Like I said, I'm bored with him, I've drained all the entertainment value I can out of him, and there's no point in continuing.

      After all, it's just another lame troll who hasn't worked in decades and makes no useful contribution to society. Just another miserable fuck (gee, I never had the opportunity to use THAT expression before).

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    270. Re: Well... by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      You really don't have a clue. I'm on record as being totally against safe spaces. Women should not be running to safe spaces - we should be standing our ground, and paying it forward to honour everyone who helped us gain the rights we already have. To the extent that we don't, we're just inviting more crap. If you're not willing to stand up for your rights (and this applies to everyone, doesn't matter what sex you are) you don't deserve them.

      Safe spaces are the equivalent of locking yourself in a jail of your own making. That's not feminist talk - that's just common sense.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    271. Re: Well... by epyT-R · · Score: 1

      ..all that proud-to-be-yourself blather, yet you still demonize guys who don't conform to your view on life-priorities as losers. Interesting.

    272. Re:Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Blasphemy! How dare you criticize our dear lord Marx! Burn him!

    273. Re: Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why would you look at beautiful people in a TV or movie fantasy world, when you can also look at ugly people in a TV or movie fantasy world? Hmm. Why would you look at ugly people on TV or in a movie when you can just go outside and look to ugly people in the real world? Of course you might accidentally see beautiful people outside! Maybe we should ask the people to completely cover up to protect us from seeing any beautiful people, especially those handsome women!

    274. Re: Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Delaying puberty, rather than rushing into a sex change, is both the norm and due diligence

      Dude, you're out of your mind. There's nothing normal about using chemical intervention to prevent natural maturation.

    275. Re: Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As for who is superior, by any objective measure, I am.

      Any objective observer would have to conclude that you're a raging looney. You actually paid a doctor to cut your dick off.

    276. Re: Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh Mashiki, you still trying to get us to focus on the dreaded "transexuals" so that we'll ignore the true threat from the pension-looting executives, is that it?

      Considering over the lifetime of "one transexual" op including the medication which is included, would cover 6 average out-of-work people who were injured on the job. I'd say the priorities are pretty fucked up wouldn't you?

      Considering that the billions taken in pension-looting far exceed the payouts for any such transsexuals, I'd say your priorities are pretty fucked up. I suppose it's because you don't want us to look at the man behind the curtain, but would rather we be bewildered by the giant floating head full of hot air.

      Really, you keep trying to blame the reek of garbage on the most tiny and petty things, while ignoring the huge pile of elephant dung in the middle of the room.

      Looks like you have no idea on what's actually happening in your own backyard. Maybe you can get Wynne to tell you why her poll numbers show her support is at 6.3% and the liberal party is polling at 11% now.

      Maybe you should look at all the wasteful efforts in North Carolina, Texas, and elsewhere. Fruitless jousting and wasteful efforts, that people eat up like it was the finest caviar.

      Me, I'm not surprised that Roy Moore has a chance at knocking off Luther Strange, but I won't pretend that there's anything at all different between them, or that the people would really be any different.

      Keep on fighting your windmills though, they're really giants! Giants out to steal your magic beans! If only we could be saved by a Braying Ass, you'd be useful.

    277. Re:Well... by jcr · · Score: 1

      animal-based food is fundamentally similar to slavery.

      Oh, fuck off.

      -jcr

      --
      The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
    278. Re:Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >> animal-based food is fundamentally similar to slavery.
      > Oh, fuck off.

      I know, it's ludicrous.

      Even the worst of the slave-holders didn't eat their slaves, to my knowledge. They might have milked some of them.

    279. Re: Well... by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1
      Let's try to be at least a bit accurate. I demonize (your term - I would call it "hold accountable") guys who attack me for not conforming to their view of what I should be. And those who purposefully mis-attribute crap to me. And anyone else who grossly distorts the truth. That latter one includes all the slashdot users who deny that discrimination based on sex is real, or attempt to excuse it.

      Oh yes, let's also include the hypocritical libertarians who keep going on about how taxation is theft, but have no problem benefiting from the goods and services provided by that taxation, such as roads.

      And all those who think that discriminating against one party can make up for historical discrimination against another party, and want things like hiring to be done on the basis of equality of outcome and not equality of opportunity (and that includes discriminating in favour of women who are lesser qualified). Fix the equality of opportunity, and the rest will take care of itself. Preferential hiring of lesser qualified individuals based on race, sex, or whatever is still discrimination when it's done to "fix gender balance" or whatever, and is still fundamentally offensive. Two wrongs don't make a right, and SJWs need to learn that. When you engage in such discrimination, or it even looks like this has happened, you are robbing the individual of the dignity of being able to say that they were able to stand on their own two feet and get the position based on merit - and you set them up for being on the receiving end of a lot of resentment.

      Men's rights activists? A bunch of crybabies. Trump supporters? White trash, same as Trump.

      There - I've offended feminists, SJWs, libertarians, guys who claim there is no gender bias ... MRAs, Trumpsters, might as well throw in Canadians and Canada's Prime Minister. His claim of having the first gender-balanced cabinet was full of shit because almost all the heavy-duty policy positions went to men. Tokenism is offensive.

      I want fairness and equality. I'll never see it, but any asshole who repeatedly attacks me on the basis of what I am because I don't conform to their ideals and continues to propagate lies from discredited studies is already acting unfairly, and deserves to be called to account. Fair is fair.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    280. Re: Well... by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      Context is important. Repeat that 3 x, and then maybe you'll figure out that, in the case of trans children, intervention to delay is the norm.

      I don't know where you got the "prevent puberty" from. I never said it. It's not practiced anywhere except among those religions that neuter children - for example, the Roman Catholic church practice of castrating choir boys to prevent them from reaching puberty and the subsequent voice change. As disgusting and abnormal a practice as FGM to keep women from having orgasms "so they don't stray."

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    281. Re:Well... by yndrd1984 · · Score: 1

      You claimed it was invented before, but you didn't offer a link to any patent as proof.

      Citations provided upon request.

      If you didn't put it all together to produce something new and patentable, you didn't invent it and can't claim credit for it.

      Exactly! Patent 1869659 was in granted 1932, so Hedy Lamarr didn't invent the technology. She thought up a quirky new implementation, and with help from someone familiar with the mechanics involved, made an invention that was never put to use. I'm so glad we can agree on this.

    282. Re: Well... by yndrd1984 · · Score: 1

      You're using evaluations for a university position as "proof"?

      Just as a quick attempt to get you to be more open-minded. That might be a lost cause, though.

      As for your "explanation" of the wage gap, it still exists even when hours worked are controlled for.

      Some of it does, yes, that's why I said "the primary cause" and listed several others. For exaple, overtime alone causes a 6% wage gap - that's not the whole thing, but it is a contributor.

      And what is this bullshit about "danger" of being outside?

      There's a comma there. The first part was about how much more likely men are to die on the job (more than ten times as many men as women). Oh, wait, you're a bigot, so it will be all their fault for being stupid, right?

      Most :"outside" jobs ... sitting in the driver/operator seat. A power shovel with full suspension seat, full sound system, sound proofing, shock isolation, and easy-to-operate controls is not hard work. (I've done it, so I speak from experience).

      You're an idiot. When someone goes up to fix a power line are they inside a cab? How about roofers?

      As for commute and schedule flexibility, these apply equally to both sexes ... the commute and schedule flexibility burden falls more on us than on men.

      You're an idiot. Men on average have longer commutes, are much more likely to have job they can't come home from every night (long-distance trucking, oil rigs, timber camps, isolated mines, etc), and (as for almost any other factor you can name) men are more likely than women to choose money over any other benefit.

    283. Re: Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I am better than you.

      Because you're good enough, you're smart enough, and gosh darn it, people LIKE you! You're such an endearing character, surely you'll convince the world as a whole to embrace surgical mutilation in pursuit of insane social engineering goals, right?

    284. Re: Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      From what I'm seeing here, people are responding to you in a manner perfectly appropriate to your behavior. I don't give a rat's ass about your sexuality, but you're making an ass of yourself, and getting exactly the reaction that you should expect.

      Maybe you realized that you can't become a woman, so you'll just settle for becoming a cunt.

    285. Re:Well... by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      And yet the USPTO found the Lamarr invention to be sufficiently different to qualify for its' own patent. They're the final arbitrator, not you or me.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    286. Re: Well... by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      Most jobs don't involve fixing power lines or repairing roofs, and btw, women do those things as well. Neither one is all that dangerous is you're not stupid. And as for men choosing money over any other benefit, that's their choice, and one that comes with consequences. And every single one of those other jobs you named are being done by women as well as men.

      There really isn't any such thing as a "man's job" any more. Same with "woman's job." Mechanization, automation, technology, and improvements in safety standards have killed that idea. Roofers now wear safety harnesses even on low-pitch roofs. Oil rigs that used to require 20-30 hands now require 2 - one to sit in the control room working a joystick and keyboard, and one outside to do what used to take a whole crew to do. And either or both can be women. When you eliminate the number of people needed to do a job, you eliminate a lot of the labour - and in the case of such huge reductions, everything is mechanized for optimum efficiency.

      Same as installing an engine and transmission on a car assembly line doesn't exactly need a guy's muscles any more. And welding? Humans need not apply. And that's the trend of the future, where humans of both sexes are inferior at most, if not all, jobs.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    287. Re: Well... by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      Social engineering goals? You missed the posts where I said (repeatedly) that SJWs, MRAs, and discrimination in hiring to achieve "gender balance" are retarded, as well as doomed in the long run. And the whole "safe spaces are an admission of failure" thing. And that what passes for feminism today is a joke. As an example, I give you Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau's "gender balanced cabinet" - which was anything but gender-balanced once you scratched beneath the surface - the heavy-weight cabinet positions were overwhelmingly given to men. The implication (because actions speak louder than words) is that he thinks women can't handle the tough jobs. But feminists sure tried to out-compete each other with enthusiasm over this faux equality. Talk about low-expectation useful fools.

      Equality of opportunity and decisions based on individual merit. From that, equality of outcomes will arise naturally, no social engineering required.

      Do you disagree with any of this?

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    288. Re: Well... by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      The first time a guy called me a bitch cunt, I knew I had arrived :-)

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    289. Re: Well... by doctorvo · · Score: 1

      You just keep demonstrating your bigotry, your ignorance, and the contempt you hold for minorities.

    290. Re: Well... by ArmoredDragon · · Score: 1

      I'll give you an A for effort, but it still won't apply for many reasons:

      1. This isn't Canadian law, rather it's specific to the Quebec province. Unless you live in Quebec, it's moot.
      2. The section you mentioned is only in reference to "nullifying and impairing" these rights. Unless you're in some position of authority, it's completely irrelevant.
      3. For the subsection on harassment, you might want to look at Canada's definition of harassment: Somebody will have to cause you fear for the safety of yourself or your property. Making trannie insults certainly doesn't qualify.
      4. This page you referenced but didn't link is again for a complaint against a person of authority. If you had read just a few words prior to the part you marked in bold, you can even see that it's talking about employment.

      So no, you can't sue anybody based on this.

      It also relates to individual members of that group.

      Dude, you even quoted a portion that says otherwise: Every one who, by communicating statements in any public place, incites hatred against any identifiable group

      More importantly, you'd have a very difficult time trying to get your government to prosecute for anything I've ever said, because it doesn't meet any of the standards required for a criminal sanction:

      http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/...
      http://www.thecourt.ca/warman-...

      Furthermore, hate speech in Canada is very rarely prosecuted to begin with. If you did actually sue somebody successfully over this, it would certainly be listed among the landmark Canadian hate speech decisions listed in wikipedia, which it certainly doesn't appear to be.

      Any section of the public doesn't specify a minimum number, in part because even promoting hatred against ONE member of the protected group will affect other members of the group (chilling effect, intimidation etc).

      I haven't said anything that could be construed as intimidation or a chilling effect.

      Same as if someone firebombs a muslim's car, they have committed a hate crime against a section of the public distinguished by religion, even if the car was only owned by one person.

      Firebombing a car isn't speech, so a whole different standard applies. Furthermore, it would need to be proven that this was done because of the person's religion. If you just firebomb a random person's car, you're not going to be prosecuted for a hate crime.

      Anyways, what are you claiming that you won? Wheel of Fortune?

    291. Re: Well... by ArmoredDragon · · Score: 1

      Talk about invoking the trivial objections fallacy. You're just splitting hairs over the dates rather than offering any actual evidence that the information is obsolete. And as if that isn't enough, you're trying to argue against most of these sources just because there isn't a link. There's a good reason for this: Most of them aren't publicly accessible, which is pretty common. And then you try to refute arguments based on vague terms like "known dubious quality" (known by whom?) "not relevant to transexuals" (Uhh...the title pretty clearly says transexuals...)

      Just to drive the point further home:

      https://williamsinstitute.law....

      The prevalence of suicide attempts among respondents to the National Transgender Discrimination Survey (NTDS), conducted by the National Gay and Lesbian Task Force and National Center for Transgender Equality, is 41 percent

      In fact, it even breaks it down by demographic:

      Suicide attempts among trans men (46%) and trans women (42%) were slightly higher than the full sample (41%). Cross-dressers assigned male at birth have the lowest reported prevalence of suicide attempts among gender identity groups (21%).

      Also, in that PDF you may want to compare the difference in the suicide attempt numbers of those who want genital surgery and those who have had it. Or more precisely, the lack thereof.

    292. Re: Well... by ArmoredDragon · · Score: 1

      ... says the guy who keeps bringing up my genitalia

      What genitalia?

    293. Re: Well... by Rakarra · · Score: 1

      Choreographed. :-) Then again, I've only seen it while channel-flipping --- and continued flipping REALLY fast :-)

      Ha, well, of course it is choreographed. :-) I do like that the show hires professional choreographers, then the bumper promo shown before each dance routine shows the contestants training with the choreographers that week and their struggles in learning the routine they're about to perform.

    294. Re: Well... by Rakarra · · Score: 1

      and making him black only distracts the viewer by breaking the stereotype. "Why did they make him black?" becomes the focus of the character.

      I hated the way the character was written in the movie. You have a meeting with the head of NASA and not only don't know his name, but have to explain a slingshot maneuver to him with a stapler?? He was much better in the book.

      Weird. Maybe it's because I came in without any expectations of the character (or anything else), but I never saw him being black as being a distraction or feeling weird. I literally did not notice it, and his race didn't phase me.

    295. Re: Well... by ArmoredDragon · · Score: 1

      Who doesn't want a reduced risk of type 2 diabetes, and less weight gain.

      Ok you're just getting stupid now. Increased blood sugar does not mean diabetes. You can have the negative health effects of elevated blood sugar without high insulin resistance or insufficient insulin production. In some cases, this becomes a condition called nondiabetic hyperglycemia.

      Moot point.

      Also, the benefits are now main-stream knowledge

      I'm not a post-menopausal woman, which is what all of your sources are assuming, so again, moot point. Besides:

      https://universityhealthnews.c...

      There is no reason, at all, for a healthy male to ever use estrogen. Not only that, but hypertension is typically a contraindication for HRT in postmenopausal women. Furthermore, with regard to yourself, there is no long term study on what estrogen does to men, so you really have no idea. I think you just like to go around telling other men to do that because misery wants company.

    296. Re: Well... by Immerman · · Score: 1

      How is it any more " forcing various races in a movie" than it is "forcing a bunch of white people in a movie"? There's *lots* of non-white actors out there auditioning for the parts, the producers/directors/etc. have to intentionally choose to use just white people. And they generally do so, except for characters that are created specifically to be "ethnic".

      --
      --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
    297. Re: Well... by Immerman · · Score: 1

      No, I'm demonstrating the contempt I have for pretty much everyone that focuses *all* their energy on treating the symptoms while ignoring the disease.

      --
      --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
    298. Re: Well... by yndrd1984 · · Score: 1
      I'm going to consolidate these, because some common themes have developed:

      And yet the USPTO found the Lamarr invention to be sufficiently different to qualify for its' own patent. ... Most jobs don't involve fixing power lines or repairing roofs, and btw, women do those things as well. ... And every single one of those other jobs you named are being done by women as well as men.

      I've never said otherwise about any of these things, so ... could you re-read and respond to what I actually wrote?

      I don't hate half the human race.

      If you're a misanthrope rather than a misanderist, that's good to know, but not really an improvement. Humans have flaws, and I don't see any other species that's both available and willing to sustain a civilization. So pretentious primates are what we've got to work with.

      And as for men choosing money over any other benefit, that's their choice, and one that comes with consequences.

      Absolutely right. On the other hand, one of those consequences is that they make more money. You can't go around saying "choices come with consequences" and "equality of opportunity is not the same as equality of outcome" and then point to an outcome on its own and cry "sexism".

      You don't achieve equality via a biased hiring or promotion process. All you're doing is robbing the new favoured group of their dignity, the ability to say that they got where they were on merit. This rightfully creates resentment because at it's core, it's no better than trading sex for a promotion, or nepotism, or cheating.

      I agree with this completely. The problem is that you (appear to) think that the wage gap is (in large part) caused by discrimination, and the sentencing gap isn't - despite strong evidence to the contrary. There are actual problems (like the name-change on resumes you mentioned) and my own opinion is that we should use blind auditions more often. It can't be used for political purposes, and it works on biases that we don't know about or don't care about (ugly people, men, short people, etc).

    299. Re: Well... by doctorvo · · Score: 1

      "Shaping whole generations", etc.: you're a totalitarian. You are the disease.

    300. Re:Well... by serviscope_minor · · Score: 1

      I suppose concluding that ToS was before the purported invasion is too much of a stretch for you.

      You're rather proving my point. If you think ToS was before the purported invasion then you've never watched ToS.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    301. Re:Well... by Rakarra · · Score: 1

      Sounds like you're confusing Star Trek with the various porn parodies that are floating around.

      -jcr

      It was strongly implied in the Original Series that women were not allowed to be command officers. The last episode of the admittedly crappier third season (Turnabout Intruder) featured a whole host of cringeworthy female problems:
      *) A woman who rankles that she's not allowed to command because she's a woman. "Your world of starship captains doesn't admit women."
      *) She's described as "hysterical," a common allusion at the time that women are unable to control their emotions like men can. Those who don't realize it's Janice in the body of captain Kirk still describe him/her as "red faced with hysteria." While no one smacked Janice in this episode, there were certainly episodes where women were slapped to break them out of their hysteria.
      *) "Believe me, it's better to be dead than live alone in the body of a woman."
      *) And as the Den of Geek put it: Kirk finishes the series by lamenting that “her life could have been as rich as any woman’s" but not, apparently, as rich as a man’s.
      This was pretty much all ret-conned by Enterprise

    302. Re: Well... by Rakarra · · Score: 1

      Wrong. The hoodie-wearing white guys have been complaining about the UX crowd since they showed up. But no one listens.

      Ummm... everyone not in the UX field complains about UX?

    303. Re:Well... by sabbede · · Score: 1

      Well there's a teacher's group saying that math classes should be used for "social justice" purposes, so apparently yes. (http://www.mathedleadership.org/resources/position.html)

    304. Re: Well... by Immerman · · Score: 1

      So long as media and culture exist, the generations are being shaped regardless. Currently to believe that white men are normal and that women and all other ethnicities are two-dimensional stereotypes.

      So long as we allow such toxic distortions to dominate the media, the next generation is going to continue to grow up subconsciously believing them. It is our responsibility as a culture to maintain and repair the mould that young minds are growing in.

      --
      --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
    305. Re: Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm pretty sure at least one of those examples is fictitious. Anybody who's been on any form of government assistance wouldn't say that 'welfare' pays for their roof. There are many forms of assistance, but zero of them are called welfare. The actual process of getting such benefits is continuously invasive and degrading, highly time limited, and subject to severe oversight. This kind of profiling of government services recipients is an obsolete and dangerous viewpoint.

    306. Re: Well... by Cederic · · Score: 1

      No, I discounted his solution because it lacked common sense. That doesn't make it misogynist.

    307. Re: Well... by doctorvo · · Score: 1

      Your beliefs are textbook Bernays, the American propagandist whose works formed the basis for Goebbels' Nazi propaganda machine. Bernays' work was also widely used by American progressives in their promotion of racial segregation and eugenics a century ago. I'm sorry you are obviously too historically illiterate to understand how offensive and deplorable your statements are.

    308. Re: Well... by war4peace · · Score: 1

      Ask the viewers.
      If something feels forced in a movie, it will be detected and the movie will lose entertainment value.

      The part you mention about "lots of non-white actors auditioning for parts" etc., we should talk about it when we have hard data at hand. Otherwise it's just say-so.

      I'm not trying to dive deep into it, but you can't simply replace a black actor with a white actor or the other way around and keep everything else the same. Could you imagine any white actor successfully replacing Samuel L Jackson in Pulp Fiction while keeping his character development intact?

      --
      ...gis sdrawkcab (usually not responding to ACs; don't bother posting as AC)
    309. Re: Well... by Immerman · · Score: 1

      And public education was originally designed as a vehicle for state propaganda. Also fire can burn you. All powerful tools can be dangerous, that's no excuse to use them recklessly and without any community oversight, which is the current state of affairs where the media is concerned.

      --
      --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
    310. Re: Well... by Immerman · · Score: 1

      "when we have more hard data at hand"? Seriously? Your argument is that Hollywood movies mostly feature all-white casts because it's mostly all white people who want to become actors? I'm not even going to dignify that with a response.

      As for character development - the only time it matters is if a character is *written* to be a specific race - i.e. you want to rely on the stereotypes or cliches around a race. Makes it really hard to have a white guy play a stereotyped role. But what exactly are those stereotypes for a white man that prevent a Latino or Black guy from playing the same role? And that's before we even get to the rampant white-washing of characters that were originally not white but became white in the movie adaptation.

      Or for a more glaring example, over gender rather than race, consider the incredibly low number of movies that can pass the embarrassingly low bar of the Bechdel test. All it requires is that two women talk to each other at least once about anything other than men. Imagine just how bad a movie would be if men never, in the entire length of the movie, talked to each other about anything other than women. You wouldn't have a movie at all. But that's the norm for women in Hollywood movies. But then I imagine there just aren't that many actresses around willing to play a character that cares about anything other than men, right?

      --
      --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
    311. Re: Well... by doctorvo · · Score: 1

      that's no excuse to use them recklessly and without any community oversight

      So you are saying that when corporations and billionaires go to Hollywood and encourage the manipulation of movies to portray unrealistic demographics, that is "community oversight"? Which "community" would that be exactly? It's no community that the average American is a member of.

      You keep proving again and again that you are a totalitarian and a corporatist.

    312. Re: Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Trans children" don't exist. Children don't have the capacity to know what they want for their own future. I know several people who played as the opposite gender for some portion of their life, and when they finally fucking grew up they realized they were quite happy keeping their genitals intact and staying off hormones.

      Actual trans people, those with gender dysphoria, make up around 0.03% of all humans. The chance of that is so small that it's much better to assume the child is going through a phase than it is to indulge for a second that they're trans. I don't think that anybody should be allowed to make permanent changes to their body until they're about 26, when the brain stops the majority of it's physical development and the person finally has some true grasp on what reality is like. Indulging the disorder with puberty blockers encourages the disorder to remain rather than fade with time, and will drastically change how people interact with them manipulating the disorder further. It's no surprise that many "trans" people are extremely unhappy, they're living a lie they've told to themself.

      The few remaining people that actually has dysphoria will then need to come to terms with the fact that they have a brain that does not associate with reality and must realize that it's their problem to overcome, not society's problem to cater to them. I can call you "sir" all day long, it makes me an asshole but by no means should it be illegal.

    313. Re: Well... by Immerman · · Score: 1

      It's far from ideal, I'll grant you that. But it's a considerably larger community that just the Hollywood execs themselves. You prefer that they shape American culture without any outside influence at all? They've been doing that for quite a while now, and have shown they ave no interest in doing anything other than perpetuating destructive stereotypes.

      Hollywood is never going to listen to normal people, any more than any other major industry. So there's really very few options here:

      - The government intervenes far more directly than it has been, with all the horrible potential for abuse that invites.
      - Other powerful organizations step in and say "Hey, you're a bunch of assholes, how about you shape up a bit?", throwing around money or other incentives to encourage it.
      - Or the status quo continues, and hundreds of millions of lives continue to be warped by their stereotypes (white men have *always* been a minority - second to women (51%) plus the men of every other race out there. We've maintained dominance by sculpting society to give us an unfair advantage)

      Of the three, having other industries throw their weight around to get a more honest portrayal seems to be the least evil.

      --
      --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
    314. Re: Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      hundreds of millions of lives continue to be warped by their stereotypes

      Drunk the Kool-Aid, have we?

      Look, I happen to agree with many of your points, but I disagree on what should be done about it.

      If a TV show or movie perpetuates a stereotype which bothers you, here are the steps to take:

      1. Don't watch it.

    315. Re: Well... by doctorvo · · Score: 1

      Hollywood is never going to listen to normal people, any more than any other major industry.

      Actually, Hollywood listens to ordinary people very well, based on how they spend their money. If ordinary people want to see more fat black lesbian hackers, Hollywood will show them. I suspect ordinary people don't want that.

      Of the three, having other industries throw their weight around to get a more honest portrayal

      About 20% of tech jobs at Google are held by women and 2% are held by blacks, and those are biased towards more low-end jobs. An "honest portrayal" would be to see a female hacker at most once every fifth movie, and a black hacker at most once every 50th movie. You don't want a "more honest potrayal", you want a "more dishonest portrayal" because of your beliefs about race and gender.

      Or the status quo continues, and hundreds of millions of lives continue to be warped by their stereotypes (white men have *always* been a minority - second to women (51%) plus the men of every other race out there. We've maintained dominance by sculpting society to give us an unfair advantage)

      I have white skin and a penis, and any American of any ethnicity had more opportunities and privilege than I growing up. Start reasoning about people as individuals, instead of categorizing everything into your racist categories.

      As for "unfair advantages", your straight (?) white male brain is so addled by testosterone that you think that working yourself to death in high paying job is the ultimate measure of achievement and advantage. In fact, women have other, better options available to them, and many women are taking advantage of them.

    316. Re: Well... by war4peace · · Score: 1

      Dude, seriously... ease off.

      "Your argument is that Hollywood movies mostly feature all-white casts because it's mostly all white people who want to become actors?"

      No. I never said, implied or thought of that. Also I have no idea whether "movies mostly feature all-white casts". Do they? I haven't counted. Have you? I really don't know. What I tried to say is that we don't know how many (white or non-white or whatever) actors auditioning for movies are turned down and why. We have no data at hand. So I'm not implying there's more of *this* race or *that* race, I'm saying I don't have any data at hand to show either.

      "But what exactly are those stereotypes for a white man that prevent a Latino or Black guy from playing the same role?"

      Well for once I can think of a crapton of historically-set movies in which various races would not fit, simply because they would make the movie not believable. Yes, it's sad and shameful that both women and other races were not given as many meaningful roles in the Western Civilization throughout history as they should, not until recently at least, but the past is the past and if you try to make a movie about past events which feature black/hispano/female politicians, businesspeople or leaders, it would be awkward to watch.

      "consider the incredibly low number of movies that can pass the embarrassingly low bar of the Bechdel test."

      Never heard of that, so it made me curious. Wikipedia says "About half of all films meet these requirements, according to user-edited databases and the media industry press." I wouldn't qualify that percentage as "incredibly low" but what do I know... Could you give me a figure that would not be "incredibly low", because I'm trying to work with hard data here, be objective, and that estimation is subjective.

      --
      ...gis sdrawkcab (usually not responding to ACs; don't bother posting as AC)
    317. Re: Well... by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      What's wrong with a more varied depiction? This is Hollywood, not real life. Having more varied techies might help other people see themselves in technical fields, and encourage them to try if they want it.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    318. Re: Well... by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      Man, what a good example of a right-wing asshole.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    319. Re: Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That relies on the premise that people need to see someone superficially resembling themselves in a role to get inspired, for which there is zero evidence.

      Do you recall who inspired Neil DeGrasse Tyson to become a scientist?

      No, this is about a bunch of do-gooders driven to right a perceived wrong. Not in an individual case, mind you, but for Everyone for All Time.

    320. Re: Well... by Immerman · · Score: 1

      No, they really don't. They listen to *their idea* of what people want to watch. And even then, they stick to their prejudices well past when it should be obvious they are wrong. Most people in this country are neither white not men, yet white men are still the primary demographic targeted. Is that because of rational analysis of the market, or because the producer, directors, etc. are almost entirely white men and don't really know what anyone else wants?

      Maybe you really were the most disadvantaged person in the country growing up - being white is no guarantee against a low birth. Most white men though benefit from a strong bias in their favor. If there's a white guy, a black guy and a woman all equally qualified applying for a job, the white guy will probably get it. And probably get more and larger raises and promotions than his black and female coworkers. HEck, it's ben shown time and again that if you submit the exact same resume with a white, black or woman's name at the top, the one with the white name will get the most responses.

      As for your assumption about *my* brain - you're completely off base. But I'd certainly admit we have a cultural problem in that regard as well.

      --
      --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
    321. Re: Well... by Immerman · · Score: 1

      How does that help reduce racism in this country?

      --
      --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
    322. Re: Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I just have zero tolerance for trolls on the web.

      Then why do you keep doing it? You're one of the most persistent trolls I've seen on slashdot.

    323. Re: Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > How does that help reduce racism in this country?

      Same way your approach does, i.e. not at all.

      Have you seen the country recently? After 25+ years of encroaching "political correctness"?

    324. Re: Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you're dissatisfied with your life, make changes to become more satisfied. If you're happy as you are then why bother being upset by it?

      That guy's "analysis" doesn't mean shit. It's a horrible old person trying to force their shitty opinion on others and trying to tell them that they're pathetic for being happy in a non-traditional way. Many of those people don't want to change, they're happy the way they are.

      If you're upset with your life but don't want to make changes to improve your happiness, you're either not really that upset or you're condemning yourself to a lifetime of misery.

      Don't be upset because you're not living your life the way someone else wants you to.

    325. Re: Well... by doctorvo · · Score: 1

      If there's a white guy, a black guy and a woman all equally qualified applying for a job, the white guy will probably get it

      Bullshit. The white guy is the least likely to get the job these days. Of course, in high tech, this situation doesn't even arise; for the last decade, in any company I have worked, the rule has been "there is an unlimited number of job slots, hire anybody who is qualified".

      As for your assumption about *my* brain - you're completely off base.

      You already identified yourself as a white male, and your prejudices and viewpoints are typically heterosexual male.

    326. Re: Well... by doctorvo · · Score: 1

      No, they really don't. They listen to *their idea* of what people want to watch. And even then, they stick to their prejudices well past when it should be obvious they are wrong.

      Are you kidding? Do you seriously believe movie investors put billions of dollars at stake without an extremely detailed analysis of markets, demographics, and audiences?

      Most people in this country are neither white not men,

      Hollywood is driven by international market preferences, not just US preferences. Note that many international markets, not just US markets, have a strong preference for "traditional gender roles", for lighter skin, and for Caucasian features.

      yet white men are still the primary demographic targeted

      Hollywood makes, and has made, movies for any and every major demographic: women, men, blacks, whites, Latinos, straight, gay, kids, young adults, families, seniors, etc. And the mix of movies it makes is adjusted based on the spending habits of those demographics.

      Is that because of rational analysis of the market, or because the producer, directors, etc. are almost entirely white men and don't really know what anyone else wants?

      Of course it's because of a rational analysis of the market. Your assumption that capitalists with billions of dollars at stake can't engage in a rational analysis of the market because of their white skin is ludicrous.

    327. Re: Well... by doctorvo · · Score: 1

      What's wrong with a more varied depiction?

      You're asking the wrong question. The right question is: "What's wrong with a small elite of people using propaganda to manipulate the behavior of the masses."

      Also, if want to use Hollywood to manipulate the population into doing better, why would you focus on racial diversity in coding? Why not start by demanding the elimination of positive portrayals of extramarital sex and single parenthood, probably the two biggest scourges of minority populations?

    328. Re: Well... by Mashiki · · Score: 1

      Considering that the billions taken in pension-looting far exceed the payouts for any such transsexuals, I'd say your priorities are pretty fucked up. I suppose it's because you don't want us to look at the man behind the curtain, but would rather we be bewildered by the giant floating head full of hot air.

      Looks like you're confusing social safety nets and private pension looting. I'd say you have no idea what you're talking about, except that there's multiple cases where governments changed laws at the behest of corporations to do that looting to boot. Not all cases, just some.

      Maybe you should look at all the wasteful efforts in North Carolina, Texas, and elsewhere. Fruitless jousting and wasteful efforts, that people eat up like it was the finest caviar.

      Me, I'm not surprised that Roy Moore has a chance at knocking off Luther Strange, but I won't pretend that there's anything at all different between them, or that the people would really be any different.

      Keep on fighting your windmills though, they're really giants! Giants out to steal your magic beans! If only we could be saved by a Braying Ass, you'd be useful.

      Gee, maybe you should get outside of your social media bubble and see what's actually going on in those areas. But I'm not surprised that someone thinks that a person getting their junk cut off, and going on hormone therapy to make them feel better(even though they still have a 40% chance of trying to kill themselves anyway), is more important then the person who was seriously injured and isn't being helped by the system that's supposed to exist to help them. Maybe it's because they're male, they're disposable in your world right?

      --
      Om, nomnomnom...
    329. Re: Well... by Ash-Fox · · Score: 1

      You can't expect to get exposure to anything else if you don't put yourself out there.

      Playing devil's advocate here, even when you are out there, it can be really limiting. I know this as a fact from living in a lot of places. For example, in the last town I lived in, the only social activity that involved other people was going to the pub and drinking to sports television blaring so loud, you can barely order a drink at the bar without repeating yourself. The other recreational activities available tended to be the more illegal sort involving drugs. Gaming wasn't even common for the average male there.

      Same as people who don't know who their neighbors are. What is so hard about knocking on their door and introducing yourself and inviting them over for a coffee?

      Absolutely.

      There are other activities that are cheap, or even free, that will put you together with like-minded people.

      Personal experience wise, I can only say that wasn't true for me, the only people I have ever known that are like-minded are people I met through the Internet. Additionally, I chose to forego most things because there was a cost associated with it when I was younger and I had zero money available, not even for transport (and while I stuck with my FOSS projects, I'm sure others may have discovered that piracy was free). Despite that, I did those activities because they were affordable and interesting to me at the time.

      For example, now that I'm retired, I volunteer 3 to 4 days a week (sometimes more) at the local food bank. I've met loads of people that way - other volunteers, people working off their community service, clients, flood victims who've lost everything. There are plenty of volunteer jobs that need people willing to help others, and yet, with all the people saying that they don't have anything else to do or don't know what else they can do to meet others, these jobs still go begging for people.

      I don't imagine there are many in my generation where this would be interesting to them.

      The most any of these costs is transportation. If you can bike or hike it, it's effectively free.

      Again playing devil's advocate here, my luck when I was younger was anything of interest to me was out of range despite the fact I lived in so many different countries. I think the liklihood of being interested in something and it being out of range is fairly high at the moment.

      Sure it's fun. It's also fun to have a board game night where you can invite a bunch of friends over to play Risk, Monopoly, poker ("are you feeling lucky, punk? :-) ), Pictionary, dominoes, whatever.

      I think the only place I've seen people in my generation play poker has been when I was in the army. Although for me personally, I have no interest in such games and I suspect the average male who is into games like Call of Duty isn't either. In short, some content may not be interchangable when it comes to interests.

      It takes the sting out of losing to the point that you really don't care who wins - it's the socializing that's fun.

      I think this is where you and I differ. I do not think catering to people in this manner will help them, in fact I know it won't because I see the result with so many work colleages of my generation. The ones that aren't withdrawn are so coddled with socialisation, that anything that offends them outside of that space will cause them massive psychological harm. It makes me almost want to wish we had mandatory military service, but it'll probably get implemented poorly like Poland's.

      I genuinely think the issues though are to do with society not giving our generation any real goals to work towards that provide better incentives that aren't just diminishing returns. The sham of support systems like universiti

      --
      Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
    330. Re: Well... by Immerman · · Score: 1

      Silencing the problem (PC) doesn't fix anything, it just lets it fester.

      Constantly presenting young minds with the idea that people with different color skin are just *people* instead of stereotypes does seem to help. Note *telling* them that - that accomplishes little more than telling people that humans are the cause of global warming - i.e. it only reinforces whatever they already are being led to believe. But *showing* them through one of their major cultural exposures, without drawing attention to it.

      --
      --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
    331. Re: Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Never doubt that a thoughtful, committed group of rich and powerful people, meeting in secret, can change the world.

    332. Re: Well... by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      Hollywood's going to mess things up no matter what. I think that having a more diverse set of characters might have a more positive effect.

      I'm fairly sure that we're losing out on software talent due to social factors, so we may as well eliminate minor social factors like white male nerd in movies.

      What I don't like about movies and TV is the portrayal of sex and violence as mostly consequence-free possible solutions to problems. (I'm way behind on TV shows, so they may have gotten better.)

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    333. Re: Well... by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      You're such an idiot. I quoted both quebec civil law and canadian criminal law. Unlike the fuck-up known as the United States, where every state has a different set of criminal laws, Canada has just one - the Canadian Criminal Code. WE are not YOU. WE are BETTER.

      And yes, the firebombing of the car was classified as a hate crime.Too bad you live in your alternate reality.

      Anyway, it's been a slice, but you're going to have to find someone else to bug. I'm done with slashdot, same as all web sites that are not strictly information. I've got better things to do with my next 50 years than listen to commentards. Back in the 60's, sex sold. Today it's hate, not porn, that is the #1 use of the internet. I'd rather walk my dogs than waste one more hour on useless drivel from useless people like you.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    334. Re: Well... by doctorvo · · Score: 1

      Hollywood's going to mess things up no matter what. I think that having a more diverse set of characters might have a more positive effect. I'm fairly sure that we're losing out on software talent due to social factors

      So what? That means higher salaries for the rest of us. Why do you defend Google manipulating the labor market through clandestine propaganda in order to depress salaries in the software professions?

      What I don't like about movies and TV is the portrayal of sex and violence as mostly consequence-free possible solutions to problems.

      I have no idea what that even is supposed to mean. The fact remains that the same people who justify pushing the portrayal of diversity as a role model by its suppose benefits for society have no problem also pushing the portrayal of clearly harmful role models like single motherhood. Something doesn't add up in their justifications.

    335. Re: Well... by cevioux · · Score: 1

      As an investor, I would like for Alpha to concentrate on the task of making a profit. The social experiments these corporate execs come up with are outside the mission of the company.

    336. Re: Well... by ArmoredDragon · · Score: 1

      You're such an idiot. I quoted both quebec civil law and canadian criminal law.

      The specific entry you pointed out in Quebec provincial law is what that number delimited portion was referring to, and you still wouldn't ever win a case off of it.

      Unlike the fuck-up known as the United States, where every state has a different set of criminal laws, Canada has just one - the Canadian Criminal Code. WE are not YOU. WE are BETTER.

      The United States is exactly what the name implies: It is a united federation of states that form a larger nation-state. Meanwhile, Canada is a bastardized form of the Iriquois word for village, which is a fitting description for a country that is so low-tech that the industry its best known for is fossil fuels.

      And yes, the firebombing of the car was classified as a hate crime.Too bad you live in your alternate reality.

      Sometimes I wonder if you're just incapable of understanding what I write. I didn't say firebombing a car can't be a hate crime. What makes a hate crime for anything other than speech is entirely based on somebody's motivation. If somebody firebombed a car that happened to be a muslim, it isn't necessarily a hate crime. It certainly wouldn't be if the person had no knowledge that the car's owner was a muslim.

      And besides, you were speaking in the general sense, and now all of a sudden you're referring to a specific (but unnamed) incident. (That, or your grammar skills suck even more ass than your mouth.)

      Anyway, it's been a slice, but you're going to have to find someone else to bug. I'm done with slashdot, same as all web sites that are not strictly information. I've got better things to do with my next 50 years than listen to commentards. Back in the 60's, sex sold. Today it's hate, not porn, that is the #1 use of the internet. I'd rather walk my dogs than waste one more hour on useless drivel from useless people like you.

      One less narcissist on the internet! Don't let the doggy door pinch your little tail on the way out.

    337. Re: Well... by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      I'll try to be more clear. TV shows tend to feature sex and violence as generally desirable things to be wrapped up at the end of the episode, with no lasting consequences. (I may be somewhat out of date on this, since I've watched very limited TV recently.) In real life, they can have lasting and life-changing consequences.

      The best way to try to avoid single motherhood is to not get pregnant without good reason to believe the guy will stick around and be part of the family. (There are circumstances in which it just happens, of course.) Condoms are pretty good for birth control, and limit the spread of certain unpleasant diseases also. In what TV I watched, they're almost never mentioned.

      Not every main character on TV or in the movies will be a good role model. Not every person in life is a good role model. I have no idea what modern TV does with single mothers as main characters, how many there are, and what their treatment is.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    338. Re: Well... by doctorvo · · Score: 1

      The best way to try to avoid single motherhood is to...

      So you are saying that portraying single motherhood as normal and inconsequential in many TV series really has no effect on society, while portraying the occasional hacker as frequently white, nerdy, and undesirable keeps women and minorities out of the tech industry.

      And while Google is simply behaving like a self-interested big corporation, throwing its money and weight around to increase its supply of labor and thereby decrease its labor costs, we should all ignore and pretend that Google is doing this out of noble motives of advancing racial equality.

      Really, the gullibility, capability for irrationality and self-deception of people like you seems limitless.

    339. Re: Well... by micahraleigh · · Score: 1

      You just don't know what you're talking about. I've heard MD's (i.e. not Sunday school teachers) echo the flakiness of patients having sex change operations. Aristotle said children eat rocks and sticks and do depraved things like become homosexuals when they aren't loved by their parents. Aristotle wasn't a Sunday school teacher either, btw (full disclosure: I am a Sunday school teacher).

      Puberty blockers are abuse. No question in my mind. The SJW's are messing children up because they don't know any better.

    340. Re: Well... by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      Except that I'm not saying that portraying single motherhood as inconsequential is completely safe. There have been many times when my wife and I have benefited greatly from having each other, and parenthood was still often a challenge. I'd rather it be portrayed as especially challenging at best. This should follow from what I said about sex and violence. I have no problems with situations that are completely unrealistic, but realistic-looking shows will have effects.

      Google is obviously not doing this out of the goodness of their hearts. Publicly held corporations don't work that way. However, I don't want to make myself artificially well-of because of the oppression of others. (I'm sure it happens, but I don't want it to.) If more people become more productive, we're all better off in some ways.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    341. Re: Well... by doctorvo · · Score: 1

      If more people become more productive, we're all better off in some ways.

      Again, you simply keep stating without any evidence that persuading more women and minorities to go into computer programming is beneficial to ... well, someone. It's the same b.s. progressives did a hundred years ago when they engaged in other forms of social engineering.

      You're a totalitarian at heart; you never made the transition into the post-Enlightenment era where individuals make their own choices and live with the consequences.

  2. Yeah hollywood by guruevi · · Score: 5, Insightful

    At least make it consistent with reality and either put in a Chinese undergrad or underpaid Indian dude.

    --
    Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
    1. Re:Yeah hollywood by Serge_Tomiko · · Score: 0, Troll

      It is funny how everyone knows exactly what this means. As always, this is purely about hatred of white men and nothing about reality. There won't be more Indians or Chinese. There will be more Blacks and Hispanics.

    2. Re:Yeah hollywood by PolygamousRanchKid+ · · Score: 5, Interesting

      At least make it consistent with reality

      The whole purpose of this is NOT to be consistent with reality, and NOT show things as they really are. The goal is to create an illusionist Utopia la-la land where everyone rides winged unicorns, where minorities ARE the majority, all races just absolutely love each other, Muslim terrorists drop the van keys and mount flowers on their machetes and swords, etc.

      Hmmm . . . so they call this practice "Intervention" . . . I'd call it censorship++. This is stuff the former East German Stasi Secret Police used to do with televisions programs there. The scripts were inspected and "re-written be conform with Socialist Ideology.

      TV shows that are reality-space-time-Schrödinger's-Cat-In-Your-Laptop-warped crazy propaganda tend to be unintentionally funny.

      --
      Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
    3. Re:Yeah hollywood by johnsmithperson123 · · Score: 1

      Maybe even throw in a few incompetent minorities, too. Women are just as capable of making stupid mistakes as men, but Hollywood doesn't want to admit it.

    4. Re:Yeah hollywood by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      True Story - after graduation a friend of mine from high school moved to Palo Alto to live with his dad. He got his masters, published some scientific papers and started working at a technology company (circuits and chip fabs and stuff) and he was the ONLY white guy at the place. It was packed with Chinese people. Everyone there, of course, were top-of-the-class brilliant people but he was the the only white guy.

    5. Re: Yeah hollywood by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If they don't cast Chinese in this scenario then it's unlikely they'll be cast as a programmer.

    6. Re:Yeah hollywood by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You also gotta make sure that the Indian dude is an incessant micromanager who browbeats everyone around him into doing all his work for him.

    7. Re:Yeah hollywood by apoc.famine · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The whole purpose of this is NOT to be consistent with reality, and NOT show things as they really are. The goal is to create an illusionist Utopia la-la land....

      And why is that a bad thing, when we're specifically talking about films here, and not documentaries? Films are already not reality, unless you currently have problems with giant robots stomping through your town.
       
      Not only is there no harm in showing a happier version of reality in film, it might actually do some good, as we know that films can be influential. I'm really confused by why you are so angry about this. Every film should be a documentary on your gritty white suburban life?

      --
      Velociraptor = Distiraptor / Timeraptor
    8. Re:Yeah hollywood by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      Have you seen Silicon Valley? It has both those characters.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    9. Re:Yeah hollywood by PolygamousRanchKid+ · · Score: 2

      I'm really confused by why you are so angry about this.

      I'm not angry about it . . . I just don't like forced censorship. I like free speech.

      Every film should be a documentary on your gritty white suburban life?

      No, all filmmakers should be able to choose for themselves if they make cheesy Disney Star Wars sugar-festival film, or boring reality Kardashian infotainment, or The Heart Healthy Good 'Ole Zombie Deep Fried Turkey cook show, or a THX-1138.

      A private company with too much money and promoting their own agenda, no matter how noble, by forcibly manipulating content providers . . . ?

      No, thanks. Read up on what "Totalitarianism" means.

      --
      Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
    10. Re:Yeah hollywood by serviscope_minor · · Score: 0

      I'm not angry about it . . . I just don't like forced censorship. I like free speech.

      Have you been forced by google to change your film script? Yeah no you haven't. You have free speech and no one is forcing you to do anything.

      No, all filmmakers should be able to choose for themselves if they make cheesy Disney Star Wars sugar-festival film, or boring reality Kardashian infotainment, or The Heart Healthy Good 'Ole Zombie Deep Fried Turkey cook show, or a THX-1138.

      Assuming you want a film with a nonzero budget, it's always been the studios that chose that, not the film makers. Also, not giving you fat wads of cash to make your own choice of film is also not censorship.

      No, thanks. Read up on what "Totalitarianism" means.

      It ain't this, that's for sure.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    11. Re:Yeah hollywood by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The whole purpose of this is NOT to be consistent with reality, and NOT show things as they really are. The goal is to create an illusionist Utopia la-la land....

      And why is that a bad thing, when we're specifically talking about films here, and not documentaries? Films are already not reality, unless you currently have problems with giant robots stomping through your town.

      Not only is there no harm in showing a happier version of reality in film, it might actually do some good, as we know that films can be influential. I'm really confused by why you are so angry about this. Every film should be a documentary on your gritty white suburban life?

      He made a good point but then you went and got all extreme with it. That's not his error, it's yours.

      The purpose of a fictional film is to tell a story. Not to socially engineer. When you're smart enough to recognize social engineering and propaganda techniques when you see them, not only does it take away from the film you wanted to watch, it also tends to have the opposite effect. I've never seen someone use subtle manipulations and propaganda techniques (such as framing, repetition, emotional appeals) when the facts were on his or her side.

      Embedding social engineering into movies is equivalent to product placements. Yes, I recognize it and I know what they're trying to do. This is how you treat mindless sheep. It is not how you articulate needed change.

    12. Re:Yeah hollywood by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      True Story - after graduation a friend of mine from high school moved to Palo Alto to live with his dad. He got his masters, published some scientific papers and started working at a technology company (circuits and chip fabs and stuff) and he was the ONLY white guy at the place. It was packed with Chinese people. Everyone there, of course, were top-of-the-class brilliant people but he was the the only white guy.

      Which was more important to him: that they were all the very best people available who really understood how to accomplish things, or their ethnicity? I'm betting the former.

    13. Re:Yeah hollywood by Kohath · · Score: 3, Informative

      Have you been forced by google to change your film script?

      These guys were forced by Google to delete a post.

      Want to see the post so you can applaud Google for taking a correct moral stand? Well, you can't. It's gone. Google abused their market control in web advertising and had it censored.

      You may read only what Google allows you to read. You didn't want to decide for yourself anyway, did you?

    14. Re:Yeah hollywood by apoc.famine · · Score: 1

      According to a Google-funded study...Google's Computer Science in Media team conducted "CS interventions" with "like-minded people" to create "Google influenced storytelling......In addition to our continuing interactions, we engaged in extensive PR and marketing support including social media outreach, events and press....Based on our research, one of the reasons girls and underrepresented minorities are not pursuing computer science is because of the negative perception of computer scientists and the relevance of the field beyond coding

      If CS interventions with like-minded people, extensive PR and marketing, and research aren't totalitarian, I don't know what is. That's some scary shit right there, and it's ruining our country.

      --
      Velociraptor = Distiraptor / Timeraptor
    15. Re:Yeah hollywood by PolygamousRanchKid+ · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Have you been forced by google to change your film script?

      I don't write film scripts. However, maybe I do like to have a choice to listen to what others have to say . . . ? Is Google limiting that choice based on what they think they would like people to listen to . . . ?

      That sounds like the stuff what countries like China, India, Saudi Arabia, et al do with the Internet: Limit the voices of anything that the government doesn't like.

      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

      Encouraging diversity is good idea, in my opinion. Using censorship to do it by a private organization is not good social hygiene, and a wee bit dangerous, methinks. Maybe some folks with lots of money will start using censorship to promote other agendas, that are not so altruistic . . . ?

      "Hi, I'm Dave, your new, ideal TV friend! I buy all my food and things online from Amazon! All my closest friends use Facebook all the time! You'll want to be like me, and also by from Amazon and use Facebook!"

      Sound silly? Take a look at some old former East German TV shows and films from the late 80's trying to promote their illusion of Socialist Ideals. They are hilarious. When push comes to shove, the former East Germany was just another totalitarian state: a small group of rich and powerful decided what they thought was best for everyone, and force fed their dogma to everyone. Sure you were free to leave whenever you want, but they shot at you a bit while you were on your way out the door. The top politicians in the former East Germany even had their own gated community, with stores stuffed with Western luxury goods. Kinda sorta sounds like the Google folks running this show living in Silicon Valley . . . um, do they live in diverse communities . . . or gated ones . . . ?

      Maybe instead of trying to force others to promote diversity, they could maybe do something about it themselves . . . ? Oh, the housing prices there will ensure that Google executives will have neighbors with the "right kind" of diversity.

      Newer documentaries with interviews of artists who struggled under censorship of the old Communists are less amusing.

      --
      Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
    16. Re:Yeah hollywood by apoc.famine · · Score: 1

      How far up your ass is your head? The fucking title notes that Google threatened removing ad revenue if they didn't remove a post. Google did not force them to delete a post, not in the least!
       
      They could easily have said, "No Google, go fuck yourself, we have principles." But they didn't. They chose Google advertisement money over everything else. Same is going on here. There is no reason any script writer or casting agent can't just ignore Google. But the lure of Google money and exposure is such that none do. Why? It's business.
       
      And what sort of communist are you that you think you can tell Google how to spend their money? Privately owned company can spend its money any way it wants to. If you don't like what Google is doing, avoid them and the companies they do business with. Sure, it's inconvenient, and potentially costly, but you have principles, right?

      --
      Velociraptor = Distiraptor / Timeraptor
    17. Re:Yeah hollywood by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I guess right-wingers are only about "let the market decide" when it benefits them.

    18. Re:Yeah hollywood by Kohath · · Score: 1

      Yeah, Google controls the internet advertising business and leverages that control to effectively censor content. That's just information on what Google does (according to this article).

      Feel free to endorse that behavior if that's the kind of person you are. Or don't if you're the sort of person who wants content to go uncensored so people can make up their own minds.

    19. Re:Yeah hollywood by Kohath · · Score: 1

      The market didn't decide. Google decided for everyone.

    20. Re:Yeah hollywood by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > The market didn't decide. Google decided for everyone.

      News flash: Google is a business, not a government agency.

      Maybe now you understand why many people believe corporations have entirely too much power in our world?

    21. Re:Yeah hollywood by Kohath · · Score: 1

      Big corporations like Google have too much power. That's not an argument for centralizing that power in government hands instead. The government is happy to act on Google's behalf. Google has a lot more friends in government than you do.

    22. Re:Yeah hollywood by serviscope_minor · · Score: 1

      Oh I see!

      If someone doesn't pay you for yor speech it's censorship!

      got it.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    23. Re:Yeah hollywood by serviscope_minor · · Score: 4, Insightful

      That sounds like the stuff what countries like China, India, Saudi Arabia, et al do with the Internet: Limit the voices of anything that the government doesn't like.

      Except it's nothing like it. Do that in China or Saudi Arabia and get beaten, jailed and/or disappeared. Do it in front of google and they might write a strongly worded letter or stop paying you money!

      So equivalent.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    24. Re:Yeah hollywood by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > Films are already not reality

      you don't live in america, do you?

      > Not only is there no harm in showing a happier version of reality in film

      this belies a complete naivette that is dangerous.

      #1 - yes, there is harm. today its minorities. tomorrow, its fluffy fucking unicorns. the point, is the control.
      #2 - why is this "happier" version of reality?

      why do we need minorities in CS positions? how about CODERS. I'm not interested in working with a woman who aspired to CS because she saw it in a fucking movie. I'm interested in working with a woman who aspired to CS because she spent her youth coding/taking apart mechanical shit. a hacker, is BORN, not invented. **happily** I see another poster has made the same point.

    25. Re:Yeah hollywood by Kohath · · Score: 1

      Google controls the web advertising business. They didn't just not pay for an article, they coerced the removal of the article by threatening to deny access to advertising for all the articles. Google has enough power over the Internet to bully and silence almost anyone on the web. Now they've started doing it.

      People (not you serviscope -- thinking people) should ask themselves: Do you want one company deciding for everyone what they can and can't read on the Internet?

    26. Re:Yeah hollywood by serviscope_minor · · Score: 1

      Google controls the web advertising business. They didn't just not pay for an article, they coerced the removal of the article by threatening to deny access to advertising for all the articles.

      Yep, so google not giving money to the site is censorship.

      Such a whiny snowflake.

      Do you want one company deciding for everyone what they can and can't read on the Internet?

      I have stuff up on the internet and google doesn't give me any ad revenue for it. So thye can't "force" me not to do anything. It's quite simple really, if you don't want google to control what you say then stop taking their money.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    27. Re:Yeah hollywood by Kohath · · Score: 1

      I have stuff up on the internet and google doesn't give me any ad revenue for it. So thye can't "force" me not to do anything.

      Sure they can. All they have to do is threaten to cut off everyone who does business with you or links to you. Your associates probably like being in business more than they like you. If one of them doesn't, well let's see if their associates like being in business.

      It's easy for people (not you serviscope -- thinking people) to see the problem. Google has already started down this road of abusing their power.

    28. Re:Yeah hollywood by Dirk+Becher · · Score: 1

      Just because films don't have to be 100% realistic doesn't mean you get away with every type of irrealism, especially if it is unexpected. Making a fantasy movie where say a dragon appears in New York is ok, but you still expect everything else (cars, cellphones, building physics, people etc.) to behave as expected, unless you hint the viewer to expect otherwise. And if you hide your political ideals in the part of the movie that is considered "normal" by the viewer then pointing to the genre of your movie becomes a fig leaf argument.

      And showing a "happier" version of reality can actually do harm if at the same time you aggressively lobby for this reality in actual reality and use dubious methods to achieve it.

    29. Re:Yeah hollywood by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      Sound silly? Take a look at some old former East German TV shows and films from the late 80's trying to promote their illusion of Socialist Ideals. They are hilarious.

      Do you have any links? They sound fun.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    30. Re:Yeah hollywood by BlazeMiskulin · · Score: 1

      That sounds like the stuff what countries like China, India, Saudi Arabia, et al do with the Internet: Limit the voices of anything that the government doesn't like.

      As someone who has lived with the restrictions of the Chinese internet for the past 6 years... Nope. It's nothing like this. Not even close. Nobody at Google or in Hollywood is "Inviting you to tea" for what you put in your TV or movie script. And nobody is publishing lists of what isn't "harmonious" or doesn't "promote the welfare of the party".

      This is people, through companies, expressing opinions and "voting with their dollars". i.e., "capitalism"

    31. Re:Yeah hollywood by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      All they have to do is threaten to cut off everyone who does business with you or links to you... Google has already started down this road of abusing their power.

      Citation please. A single example of Google threatening to cut off everyone who does business with an entity they oppose.

      Or shut the fuck up, and stop posting your bullshit here. Because you're not contributing anything to the conversation when you blatantly lie in order to push an agenda that has more to do with hate against certain groups than it does with trying to discuss civic discourse.

    32. Re:Yeah hollywood by Kohath · · Score: 0

      I said they started down the road, not that they'd already reached the end of it.

      I was responding to a "they could never do it to me" comment. They could. They haven't yet. They've started down the road that leads there. Their minor abuses of power will lead to more severe abuses of power unless and until they decide to take a different road.

    33. Re:Yeah hollywood by dunkelfalke · · Score: 1

      a small group of rich and powerful decided what they thought was best for everyone, and force fed their dogma to everyone. Sure you were free to leave whenever you want, but they shot at you a bit while you were on your way out the door. The top politicians in the former East Germany even had their own gated community, with stores stuffed with Western luxury goods.

      Yes, I remember that scandal about the Wandlitz community. But to be honest, it was ridiculous - compared to the West Germany these "rich and powerful" were just middle class. That all was luxury only by the GDR standards.

      --
      "It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
    34. Re:Yeah hollywood by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not only is there no harm in showing a happier version of reality in film, it might actually do some good

      Happier for whom?
      I actually approve the Stasi message (the example he gave), but I am concerned with Google directing people's minds everywhere.

    35. Re:Yeah hollywood by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes China is so terrible, good thing we made an example of them by becoming a major trading partner, and Saudi Arabia is so awful, we punished them by making them our allies.

    36. Re:Yeah hollywood by serviscope_minor · · Score: 2

      Sure they can. All they have to do is threaten to cut off everyone who does business with you or links to you. Your associates probably like being in business more than they like you. If one of them doesn't, well let's see if their associates like being in business.

      I see how you've founded a slippery slope, greased it up, taken a good run up and taken an epic slide right to the bottom. Was it fun? It sounds fun.

      You are of course being deeply dishonest. Instead of starting with your point, you start with a peripherally related point. When I address that, you go do the bait-and-switch because I didn't deduce the point you were trying to drive at.

      No matter your argument, not paying someone for their freeze peach is not and will never be censorship except for the most delicate, most whiny of snowflakes (that's you, bro).

      That is an independent problem of if large companies are too powerful (they are) and if the monopoly abuse protections are too weak (they are).

      But regardless of those it is STILL not censorship if someone won't pay you sweet advertising moolah for your article r website.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    37. Re:Yeah hollywood by Rakarra · · Score: 1

      How far up your ass is your head? The fucking title notes that Google threatened removing ad revenue if they didn't remove a post. Google did not force them to delete a post, not in the least!

      Come on man, that's de-facto forcing. Having firm control over a website's revenue model means you have a lot of leverage over the website. Yeah, they weren't holding a gun to the owners' heads and threatening to shoot if the post wasn't removed, but they can choke off their advertising revenue that is the lifeblood of a website. It's somewhere between "do nothing," and "directly censoring," and it's a lot closer to the latter than the former.

      That Google can be in that sort of a position says bad things about their position in the Internet and the advertising models that websites rely on. Forget search monopoly, it's advertising that can, and perhaps should, get Google into trouble.

    38. Re:Yeah hollywood by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Allies?
      Oh the youth of today, The USA what what supported the CREATION of Saudi Arabia, by backing the hour of Saud into power in the region.
      Before that the Sauds were just another local bunch of thugs.

      The UK backed a different house, and lost out.

    39. Re:Yeah hollywood by Kohath · · Score: 0

      So your argument is that Google's actions are not within the precise, technical definition of the word "censorship". Agreed. They have the same effect though, which is why I used the words "effectively censor", meaning to take an action that has the effect of censoring.

      Google should stop bullying people. You should stop defending their bullying behavior.

    40. Re:Yeah hollywood by serviscope_minor · · Score: 2

      So your argument is that Google's actions are not within the precise, technical definition of the word "censorship". Agreed. They have the same effect though, which is why I used the words "effectively censor", meaning to take an action that has the effect of censoring.

      Translation: not paying money is muh censorship!1one

      Google is not delisting their page. Google is not harming their position in the rankings. Google still won't do either of those if they fine an alternative advertising network. Google is certainly not delisting or harming anyone who links to them.

      All that is happening is that google is not going to pay them advertising dollars.

      Google should stop bullying people. You should stop defending their bullying behavior.

      Well, truly I hope you don't face any actual adversity in your life, because your bar for "bullying" is so phenomenally low that if someone actually did something bad to you you'd probably implode.

      Plus you know, censorship is actually a bad thing. Having little delicate snowflakes like you crying wolf continuously actually does the no censorship cause far more harm than good. Now you know this the, if you persist then the only rational conclusion is that you actually like censorship and you are in fact trying to discredit the case against it.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
  3. rappers by musikit · · Score: 5, Insightful

    i dont see many white males represented in rap videos. i guess that is the reason that there is a under representation of white males in rap. we should start a change.org petition demanding that white males be equally represented in rap videos in order to grow the number of white males in rap

    1. Re:rappers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm well represented in rap videos.
      All right stop, Collaborate and listen
      Ice is back with my brand new invention
      Something grabs a hold of me tightly
      Then I flow like a harpoon daily and nightly
      Will it ever stop? Yo -- I don't know
      Turn off the lights and I'll glow
      To the extreme I rock a mic like a vandal
      Light up a stage and wax a chump like a candle.

    2. Re:rappers by _merlin · · Score: 1

      Yeah, besides Eminem who was arguably the world's most successful/well-kown rapper for years, B-Real (Cypress Hill) who keeps kicking on, the Beastie Boys, dudes from the Kottonmouth Kings... They're in the minority, but there's definitely been a steady stream of successful white rappers.

    3. Re:rappers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So, you're a b***h shaking your a**?

    4. Re:rappers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In this case, the market really will provide. It has provided chap-hop.

    5. Re:rappers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      They are in the minority? Given that whites outnumber blacks about 5:1, shouldn't we expect - nay, DEMAND - that rap stars also have the same racial background proportions? For every black rapper, we need 5 white rappers. For every black basketball player, we need 5 white basketball players.

      And don't even get me started on gender and teachers and nurses - or even college students! Right now, there is a massive imbalance in gender in college, with women making up about 64% of all undergrads, but just 50% of the population, meaning we need to kick many of them out and replace them with men! And fat people, we need MORE representation of fat people EVERYWHERE, given they are the majority of US population. Models, TV/film actors, CEOs, soldiers, etc.

      We need to make sure that each demographic is proportionately represented in any aspect of society. After all, white male lives matter. We need equal rights for all, and we must use the SJW metric of equality - that every race, gender, religion is equally represented in all aspects of life, according to their prevalence in society as a whole! Until we have 100% strictly-quota-aligned employment in society, then society is inherently evil and must be torn down. Right?

    6. Re:rappers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Exactly. We also need to get the racist NBA back to where it should be -- 74% white.

    7. Re:rappers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      i dont see many white males represented in rap videos. i guess that is the reason that there is a under representation of white males in rap

      Stop with cultural appropriation, you fucker. Wasn't it bad enough you made us slaves? We get something good, and you want it, like on the plantation. Anyone who wants to take my dog checkers can fuck emselves too.

    8. Re:rappers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > We get something good, and you want it, like on the plantation

      Are you saying rap is good?

      Besides, you want to talk appropriation - 3 Jewish white boys from Brooklyn figured out how to make money from (c)rap.

    9. Re:rappers by swillden · · Score: 1

      i dont see many white males represented in rap videos. i guess that is the reason that there is a under representation of white males in rap. we should start a change.org petition demanding that white males be equally represented in rap videos in order to grow the number of white males in rap

      Well, if some rap-focused record label feels like they'd have more success with a broader representation of white males in the industry, they might start lobbying Hollywood to show more white male rappers, as well as looking to find and cultivate some directly.

      Would that piss you off?

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    10. Re:rappers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Forget nurses, there are far far more males in prison than females. Our laws must be extremely sexists towards males. We need to make more things illegal for females in order to fix the massive discrimination going on with our justice system.

    11. Re:rappers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I noticed you selected basketball to show whites as being underrepresented, how about hockey? You also mentioned rap artists. How come there are no black country/western musicians?

      Captcha: unneeded

  4. The people in charge are so embarrassing. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

    So, Google is bigoted against white men. Nice. Spare me your feminine feefees that say everything should be "fair". It's bullshit. Look, when ratings plummet and you don't know why, go suck a big back of dicks.

    1. Re:The people in charge are so embarrassing. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      *Bag of dicks. Ruined prepubescent Jazz Jennings dicks.

  5. Yes, please! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Make the world look like you want it to look, not how it actually looks!

  6. nfl by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    i dont see many white males represented in the nfl. i guess that is the reason that there is a under representation of white males in the nfl. we should start a change.org petition demanding that white males be equally represented in the nfl in order to grow the number of white males in the nfl

    1. Re:nfl by serviscope_minor · · Score: 1

      Well quit whining and telling other people to start the petition. Start it yourself if you actually think it's important.

      If the petition doesn't get started then that's proof that you and the people who modded you up are nothing but concern trolls.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
  7. Will this effort target the "other direction" too? by bogaboga · · Score: 5, Insightful

    According to a 2015 USC report, President Obama was kept abreast of efforts to challenge media's stereotypical portrayals of women...

    This news piece talks of the absence of male teachers.

    I'd like to have an effort targeted to this imbalance too. Google, anyone?

  8. nhl by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    i dont see many black males represented in the nhl. i guess that is the reason that there is a under representation of black males in the nhl. we should start a change.org petition demanding that black males be equally represented in the nhl in order to grow the number of black males in the nhl

    1. Re:nhl by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      i dont see many black males represented in the nhl. i guess that is the reason that there is a under representation of black males in the nhl. we should start a change.org petition demanding that black males be equally represented in the nhl in order to grow the number of black males in the nhl

      If you do that, then NHL will change from having frequent fistfights to having frequent gunfights.

  9. But most of them are women in movies... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The male hackers/techs are few and far between nowadays... Now that I think of it, so are male heroes. At least in big money productions.

    1. Re:But most of them are women in movies... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That seems to go unrecognized altogether, especially the latter.

  10. Doomed To Fail by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    An experiment has been conducted many times where they throw a load of female toys (typically dolls) and male toys (typically trucks) around a monkey enclosure. Every time it is conducted, the female monkeys play with the dolls and the male monkey's play with the trucks. Here's a video of the experiment being carried out on BBC's Horizon:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bm9xXyw2f7g

    The simple fact is, men and women are different and therefore have different interests. The reason women are under-represented in computer science is because most women aren't interested in the subject. It's the same reason men are under-represented in child care - most men have no interest in looking after young children.

    What Google are doing is fascist style propaganda that ignores the truth and pushes the party narrative. They then severely punish anyone who questions the narrative.

    Google is true evil.

    1. Re:Doomed To Fail by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The people in charge at XXVI, Alphabet, Google, and Youtube are self proclaimed progressive, pro-science people that deny science when they don't like it. Non-conforming opinions or science will be rejected and you will be punished for sharing it.

    2. Re:Doomed To Fail by Alain+Williams · · Score: 1

      Google is true evil.

      In this case Google is acting just as every large corporate will: they want to avoid being attacked by vocal groups as they think that that will, eventually, lead to a reduction in profits. So when some group succeeds in getting enough people to accept their meme, the corporate will want to be seen as supporting it - no matter how wacky it is & no matter what those at the top really think about it.

      Some of the more savvy & well organised groups get their supporters into positions of influence, in government, corporations, universities, the media, ... and then use that to push their agenda. Today we live in a world where your views are being increasingly manipulated - often to conclusions that are not supported by the evidence.

    3. Re:Doomed To Fail by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Who was attacking Google for not working with Hollywood to introduce more minorities into TV programs?

      No, this is because Google is run by some severe SJW types - just look at how they reacted to the minor challenge of Damore's memo. The Google leadership is PROACTIVELY trying to change the world to their view, including indoctrination through cultural programs.

      As you say, this is just another example of a political movement working to get into positions of power to manipulate the people and take control. Somehow, Google leadership learned the wrong lesson from the Soviet Union and Mao's China. And may God have mercy on the US people, because Google's new Cultural Revolution won't.

    4. Re:Doomed To Fail by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As a parent, I've seen this as well. Some will argue that's it's conditioning. But when I took my daughters to soccer I had to notice how the younger siblings of their teammates played together on the side. Boys running around tossing a ball, girls sitting in a circle.

    5. Re:Doomed To Fail by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      The BBC did a programme called "No More Boys and Girls" recently. Among other things, they took a baby boy, dressed in him girls' clothing and told the carer that his name was Emily.

      The carer gave him girls' toys and he happily played with them. Dolls, cuddly toys, that sort of thing.

      Then they repeated with a girl dressed as a boy.

      Girls and boys brains are fairly similar at birth. A lot of what we think is genetic is actually just us influencing the unscientific test. I imagine the monkeys, which will have been interacting with humans their whole lives, are being influenced similarly.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    6. Re:Doomed To Fail by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Have a link! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWu44AqF0iI

      It's an old experiment, for a given value of old anyway. I'm not sure when it was first proposed but I recall discussing it in college nearly twenty years ago and the results were largely the same. Most people aren't aware of it but there is just a different way we behave with babies based on their perceived gender.

    7. Re:Doomed To Fail by Solandri · · Score: 1

      If you give the child no choice, of course he/she will play with whatever is provided to him/her. If a caretaker projects their cultural biases onto a child, they can force the child to play with whatever they think the child should be playing with. Nobody is debating that.

      The point here is that given a choice, men and women (or boys and girls, or male and female monkeys) gravitate towards doing different things of their own free will. The argument here is actually the bigger nature vs nurture debate. And the overall conclusion of all the studies I've seen on it is that it's a little of both. Gender biases are partially genetic, partially enforced by cultural stereotypes. Unfortunately for the SJWs, their movement is based on the theory that gender biases are entirely rooted in cultural stereotypes and there is zero genetic basis. The science simply doesn't support their position.

    8. Re:Doomed To Fail by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If what you are attempting to say were true, there would be no such thing as transgendered people. The mere act of dressing people as boys and acting toward them as if they were boys would be sufficient to make them boys, right?

      dom

    9. Re:Doomed To Fail by Solandri · · Score: 2

      I took my nephew to volleyball practice a couple times, and noticed a marked gender difference. During practice the kids got into a line and the instructor tossed balls at them one at a time so they could hit it back. The girls were attentive and accurate. The boys were goofing off and frequently mis-hit the balls.

      Then they started playing a game and kept score. Suddenly the boys were focused and accurate, while the girls stood around talking to each other and missed shots. One of them even got hit in the head by the ball because she wasn't even watching.

      While both boys and girls were capable of playing well, there was a marked gender difference in the situation which caused them to use that capability to the fullest.

    10. Re:Doomed To Fail by AmiMoJo · · Score: 2

      The point here is that people take cues from other people, especially children looking to adults for guidance. In the programme they actually tried giving older children (age 7) toys meant for the opposite gender, and again they enjoyed playing with them.

      One striking observation was that girls seemed to have less ability than boys when it came to working with construction toys and spacial puzzles. Boys tended to have trouble expressing emotions other than anger, lacking the vocabulary. Both of those things changed with relatively little effort and in a relatively short time - both girls and boys just needed practice and some encouragement to do things that they assumed their gender was not good at.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    11. Re:Doomed To Fail by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      In this case Google is acting just as every large corporate will: they want to avoid being attacked by vocal groups as they think that that will, eventually, lead to a reduction in profits.

      In this case they've also been pressured by local and national politicians to do something about it. So it's more than just social pressure, it has some implicit legal threat behind it.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    12. Re:Doomed To Fail by Rockoon · · Score: 0

      Yep these monkeys assumed that their gender wasnt good at the other toys.

      You are continuing to be an awful horrible person.

      --
      "His name was James Damore."
    13. Re:Doomed To Fail by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      Can't you just make a counter point in a debate without being a cunt?

      I have a feeling they didn't lob Lego into the monkey enclosure.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    14. Re:Doomed To Fail by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I just saw a clip from that show and the babies were mostly ignoring the toys that the adults were giving them.

      Some woman was trying to get "Sophia" interested in puppets and dolls, but the baby mostly cared about the robot "she" was playing with. The carers trying to get "boys" interested in boy toys seemed similarly unsuccessful.

      It seems like it doesn't really matter whether you treat a baby as a boy or a girl, they're going to figure out for themselves what toys they want to play with. The kids didn't care that they were being stereotyped.

      dom

    15. Re:Doomed To Fail by djinn6 · · Score: 1

      A lot of what we think is genetic is actually just us influencing the unscientific test. I imagine the monkeys, which will have been interacting with humans their whole lives, are being influenced similarly.

      I don't think what you described, that is, giving a boy "girls toys" and vice versa, is any sort of scientific test either. What was the falsifiable hypothesis? What's the sample size? And how does it relate to the topic at hand?

      If anything, the study only showed that nurture can override nature up until whatever age the study ended at. This is nothing new or interesting. Humans do not naturally wear clothing, but if you walk into a mall, you'll see very few people walking around naked. The real question is whether there is a natural bias in interests due to gender, and following that, what are the harms and benefits of forcefully removing that bias.

    16. Re:Doomed To Fail by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      It was a demonstration for TV, but it is backed up by rigorous studies into the area. They did actually interview a scientist studying human development to confirm that, and you can search out the studies yourself.

      I try to resist creating copy/paste lists of references because they are usually just a stifling/spamming tactic and I kind of expect Slashdot to show some curiosity instead of just accepting the established groupthink. In fact, in the past when I have posted links to studies, they have been modded "troll"... I guess facts and science are trolling now. But maybe I'll have to keep trying.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    17. Re:Doomed To Fail by TeknoHog · · Score: 1
      In that video they say that males play with the dolls 1/3 of the time, so it's not quite so clear cut. I recall that Horizon episode and they explained that both sexes are interested in toys that look like their young, but the males are more into things with moving parts. So a gross simplification like

      Every time it is conducted, the female monkeys play with the dolls and the male monkey's play with the trucks.

      looks like "fascist style propaganda" to me. And I say this as a very tech-oriented male myself, but then again it makes me want to be careful with facts and figures.

      --
      Escher was the first MC and Giger invented the HR department.
    18. Re:Doomed To Fail by anarkhos · · Score: 2

      And yet the differences are stark.

      We deny biological differences at our own peril. Even if your goal is to have more women in tech (a goal I don't personally understand but whatever), you're not going to get anywhere without considering all the FACTS (which was James Damore's whole point).

      Female employee diversity at Google from 2013 to 2016 was completely flat. Their diversity project was an abject failure. Obviously, there was no glass ceiling. Women just have better things to do that sit on their ass all day coding!

      --
      >80 column hard wrapped e-mail is not a sign of intelligent
      >life
    19. Re:Doomed To Fail by houghi · · Score: 1

      I have seen a different test where people where asked to watch and play with a kid. The kid was of an age that it could not talk yet and it was not clear if the kid was male or female.
      The researchers then told the person that the kid was a boy or a girl. The kids played with boys toys if the were told that the kid was a boy and girls toys if the person was told it was a girl.

      Yes, several tests where done. It was the person who decided what the kid should play with and that was what the kid played with.

      That means that the interests are taught by others. If this is a good thing or a bad thing is something completely different. It has worked for thousands of years, but that means nothing.

      --
      Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
    20. Re:Doomed To Fail by djinn6 · · Score: 1

      I'm asking what the studies that backs this TV segment actually tested, which you didn't answer and then proceeded to accuse me of group think and being incurious.

      By the way, I checked and couldn't find any studies that support there being no innate gender differences (since that's the question we're trying to answer), only the ones that show the opposite.

    21. Re:Doomed To Fail by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not enough information. Of course the kids played with the toys. What matters is HOW they played with them. What did the kids make them do? What types of scenarios did they imagine?

      But not all of that matters anyway. We're talking about teenagers and adults. Puberty changes a lot of things. It's not all brain-wiring, the amounts and types of hormones in your body changes your preferences.

    22. Re:Doomed To Fail by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "... female toys ..." heh heh heh.

    23. Re:Doomed To Fail by Rockoon · · Score: 1

      The fact that you know that facts arent merely "points" but insist on pretending that they are in open discussions, is why you are a horrible human being.

      Your opinion doesnt trump facts. How you feel doesnt trump facts. You are a horrible human being in this case because you support imposing your opinions on little children even when actual facts are right in front of you telling you very fucking clearly that your opinion is fucking flat-out wrong.

      Don't you understand that you are promoting the fucking with other peoples children? Dont you understand what sort of consequences comes with that? DO YOU UNDERSTAND YET HOW SERIOUS THIS IS TO THE PEOPLE YOU ARE FUCKING WITH? You better, because the consequences are very fucking cold if you fucks keep pushing your bullshit opinions onto children.

      --
      "His name was James Damore."
  11. apple by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    i dont see many heterosexual males represented in apple propaganda. i guess that is the reason that there is a under representation of heterosexual males in apple propaganda. we should start a change.org petition demanding that heterosexual males be equally represented in apple propaganda in order to grow the number of heterosexual males in apple propaganda

    1. Re: apple by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well iPhones are made for homosexuals by homosexuals. Even the circle button at the front represents an anus and they want you to push it every time you go home

  12. hollywood but not bollywood by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    yah, it's not really just about "white" discrimination

  13. Did I miss the memo? by petes_PoV · · Score: 1

    It does not inspire underrepresented groups to pursue careers in computer science,

    Is there a rule that says a person will only be "inspired" by someone who is the same gender that they are and / or has the same colour skin? And if so, why not require them to be the same height, or eye-colour, too.

    I find it difficult to accept that women only study physics because they have been "inspired" by a female physicist, or that men would need to have a shining example of a male nurse to "inspire" them into the profession.

    And if it is that way, where does that leave all the major religions and their almost all male icons? Should women be almost all atheists if that idea was true.

    --
    politicians are like babies' nappies: they should both be changed regularly and for the same reasons
    1. Re: Did I miss the memo? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Is there a rule that says a person will only be "inspired" by someone who is the same gender that they are and / or has the same colour skin?

      Yes.

       

      And if so, why not require them to be the same height, or eye-colour, too.

      Both of those are also factors.

      I find it difficult to accept that women only study physics because they have been "inspired" by a female physicist, or that men would need to have a shining example of a male nurse to "inspire" them into the profession.

      Maybe you need somebody to inspire you to overcome this difficulty.

      And if it is that way, where does that leave all the major religions and their almost all male icons? Should women be almost all atheists if that idea was true.

      Now you know why there are grievances about the patriarchal nature of many religions. Thanks for catching up to the 20th century. Too bad we are into the 21st.

    2. Re:Did I miss the memo? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You must be blind to race, except when we inspire your race.

    3. Re: Did I miss the memo? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How dare he hold an opinion contrary to my opinion? After all, it is the current year right now! Everybody knows that in the current year, my opinion is the only correct one.

    4. Re:Did I miss the memo? by alvinrod · · Score: 1

      Is there a rule that says a person will only be "inspired" by someone who is the same gender that they are and / or has the same colour skin? And if so, why not require them to be the same height, or eye-colour, too.

      I think only to the extent that a person believes that people who are not the same gender, ethnicity, culture, etc. as themselves are an other and in that way a little less human if they're being perfectly honest with themselves. It's the kind of naive thought one might have as a small child, but that should be dismissed even before puberty. '

      I think that's what disgusts me most about the people so in favor of forced representation in media, etc. They essentially treat groups of people like idiot children who can't possible draw inspiration from someone who isn't also a member of that group. It's an insidious and less obvious separate but equal.

    5. Re:Did I miss the memo? by Octorian · · Score: 1

      And if it is that way, where does that leave all the major religions and their almost all male icons? Should women be almost all atheists if that idea was true.

      On top of that, most major religions have historically been quite exclusionary towards the participation of women in their rituals and ceremonies.

      Yet, somehow, once reforms let them in the door, the women actually seem to be more serious about participation than the men. Even if the foundations haven't changed. I still haven't figured this one out.

    6. Re:Did I miss the memo? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I heard that the movie Stand and Deliver inspired quite a number of hispanics to become teachers. In fact a former college acquaintance told me that was the reason she wanted to be a math teacher.

      For religion it is something you were typically raised to believe, it is usually not a choice you were able to make as a child.

  14. I remember doing similar something in high school by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    We were asked to draw a scientist, and the vast majority of the class drew men on lab coats, I would say copies of Professor Utonium, but maybe a decade before Power Puff Girls.

    A few drew women, also in lab coats, one person drew a sailor with a beard, and I drew a space alien.

    Really makes you think.

  15. Underrepresented minorities? Like who? by mveloso · · Score: 2

    What minorities are you talking about? Indians and other Asians?

    1. Re:Underrepresented minorities? Like who? by Teun · · Score: 2

      According to the previous /. article about millennial the minorities include older people.

      --
      "The likes of Facebook and WhatsApp are free to those whose privacy is of zero value."
    2. Re:Underrepresented minorities? Like who? by djinn6 · · Score: 1

      According to SJW's, Asians are successful and therefore white.

  16. When does this end by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Google is a big corporation. It makes a lot of money and has a practical monopoly on search. Its name is synonymous with searching the internet.

    Is all this BS just an effort to pander to the anti corporate left and to pretend they are the good guys.

    The problem here is that the SJW is never happy and cannot be appeased. They are yet to work this out it seems.

    1. Re:When does this end by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Is all this BS just an effort to pander to the anti corporate left and to pretend they are the good guys.

      No. They are sincere. They are using the power they have and they'll use whatever power they acquire to make their will prevail. If that means making everyone live in fear then so be it.

      And if any of this 'progressive' social engineering of media surprises you well... that should be your first clue that you should avoid political matters: you're not qualified.

  17. Google Wants To Fake The Face Of Coding by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The problem is once a girl becomes a teenager and knows she doesn't have to work as hard as her brother to get the same things that is when education falls apart. If you know younger girls they are fascinated by the world around them but only a handful will bring that into their adult lives. Its the honest truth. If not much is required then not much will be had... its not the brother's fault.. its the parent's fault for teaching their daughters that being this way is acceptable.. and its society's fault for setting equality at the level of a pair of Louis Vutton shoes and a Short Skirt.. to a guy that works day and night building an empire... this is what I suggest.. take your girlfriend on a 2 week camping trip. deliberately unload her makeup from the vehicle before you leave.. see how it works by the end of the trip..... and if you're not willing to subject your relationship to that.. watch a few episodes of Naked And Affraid.. you will soon find out what is true or not when 2 people have to live together for 21 days naked in the jungle .. a good 20% of the women will really step up.. the rest will fail.. because they have been taught that failing is ok .. as long as you have a pretty pair of shoes to get a man to do whatever you want .. you're going to be fine.

    1. Re:Google Wants To Fake The Face Of Coding by HornWumpus · · Score: 2

      My older sister went from being able to change an alternator (never what you'd call a 'competent wrench') to not being able to change a tire.

      What happened in the interim? She learned to bounce her tits at her boyfriends and have them do the work.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    2. Re: Google Wants To Fake The Face Of Coding by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      LOL atleast your honest.

    3. Re:Google Wants To Fake The Face Of Coding by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We call that delegation.

  18. *Waits for Con triggered snowflakes to appear* by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    *Is not disappointed*

  19. Hey Elon! by wjcofkc · · Score: 1

    When can I get that ticket to Mars?

    --
    Brought to you by Carl's Junior.
  20. You heroes of the computer revolution are 'scum' by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Orwell explained what the Deep State does when FACTS prove to be 'inconvenient'. The Deep State takes control of all aspects of 'history' and simply rewrites 'history' to suit their agendas.

    The second computer revolution brought perfect DEMOCRACY to the field. The microprocessor and software tools meant that anyone anywhere could participate equally- all they had to do was care, and dedicate time and effort to the cause. And as a result we discovered the types of people who were well matched to the need. Google- the R+D arm of the NSA- now declares the ***truth*** to be 'wrong'. Yet most 'white' male nerds who still do all the heavy lifting in this field are anything but kings of society. They are already pissed on by common society- trained to hate the discipline that makes real engineers. And now they are about to be demonised - because their very physical form is "evil" in the eyes of Google's SJW mobs.

    I've witnessed how timid and down-trodden engineers tend to be. In most companies they are the lowest of the low- not because of what they do (which is so very essential), but because of their psychology- their personalities. Want to now how bad this can be? Well here's a true story...

    In the UK several decades ago the goverment wage fairness body declared secretaries and engineers in Britain's car building companies should be paid the same cos they both went to college. I kid you not. This is what the logic of the SJW movement means. Kill the intellectual heart of your nation to allow perfect outsourcing.

    Undervalued engineers, seeing themselves eliminated from popular culture in their homelands, will finally get the message- that they should "eat shit and die". The Deep State will instead craft a perfect layer of clowns and jesters to tell the sheeple how to think, while the Deep State outsources essential BRAIN-POWER activity to lands where thinking and intellectual effort is still respected. Meanwhile you slashdot loving Clinton voting dribblers fail to ask 'why?'. "what is their end game".

    well here's a clue. America has just ended the Vienna Convention (the rules of diplomacy) by raiding the diplomatic properties of Russia in America. The mainstream media conveniently fails to report this. And slashdot- so keen to push anti-Russia propaganda under any excuse- will be another outlet with convenient blindness. The game is one of societal manipulation to a degree beyond anything ever seen in previous Human History. And the game relies on the current passiveness of 'white' males in the West.

  21. Equal representation? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Most people believe in climate change. Are they going to give equal representation to those who do not?

  22. Reinforcing stereotypes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yes, let's just keep telling kids that they should only do the things that people that look like them do. If you use stereotypes to try to change stereotypes, just what do you think you end up with?

  23. But, but, but don't cast minorities as villians! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Ok, let's pretend that Hollywood goes ahead and starts sprinkling minorities into the casts of technology company movies/shows.

    What will happen when the angry and vengeful yet brilliant villain happens to be a member of some minority group? An African, Mexican, Asian, Indian, Pacific Islander, South American, American Indian, or Middle Eastern cast in that part will immediately draw protests and demands for people to lose their jobs because the movie/show is insinuating that ALL members of that minority behave like that.

    The part of Khan in "Star Trek: Into Darkness" was purposely white-washed by the producers for exactly that reason. They were afraid casting an Indian as the bad guy would insult all Indians and draw protest.

  24. What about the NBA? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Is Google trying to integrate the NBA basketball into storytelling to depict white guys? Seems reasonable according to their logic.

  25. Minorities? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    When will they start showing pedophiles in good light? You know, not all pedophiles rape and murder kids. In fact, they rarely do.

  26. People who will become computer scientists by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    won't waste their lives watching moronic shows like these.

  27. Re:Will this effort target the "other direction" t by DRJlaw · · Score: 2

    I'd like to have an effort targeted to this imbalance too. Google, anyone?

    Why not you?

  28. Definitely the problem by Archtech · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "The problem with the hackneyed stereotype of the socially inept, hoodie-clad white male coder? It does not inspire underrepresented groups to pursue careers in computer science..."

    Yeah, because Aristotle, Euclid, Pythagoras, Archimedes, Bacon, Newton, Leibniz, and all the groundbreaking mathematicians, scientists and technologists up through Einstein, Turing, Feynman and Berners-Lee took up science and technology because they were inspired by someone they saw on TV.

    --
    I am sure that there are many other solipsists out there.
    1. Re:Definitely the problem by apoc.famine · · Score: 1, Insightful

      It's the opposite, actually. They didn't have it reinforced to them day in and day out that only someone who didn't look like them was fit to do something. What they could aspire to was more of a blank canvas, because there wasn't an established trope of only X can do Y. Movies tend to create and perpetuate these tropes. For people who don't look like a 20-something awkward white kid in a hoodie or a lumbering neckbeard with cheeto fingers and a stained t-shirt, the computer-whiz position doesn't seem to include people like them.
       
      And secondly, I'll point out that you didn't list too many women. Why? It probably had something to do with the fact that the role of professor/lecturer and genius was filled by men, and women were not allowed to enter that space or aspire to it for most of history. That's part of what google seems to be trying to address here - show that it is indeed possible, at least in fantasy, for people to fill roles that historically have been actually closed to them, or more recently, have had the appearance of being closed, even if they are now are open.

      --
      Velociraptor = Distiraptor / Timeraptor
    2. Re:Definitely the problem by Kohath · · Score: 1

      Yeah, because Aristotle, Euclid, Pythagoras, Archimedes, Bacon, Newton, Leibniz, and all the groundbreaking mathematicians, scientists and technologists up through Einstein, Turing, Feynman and Berners-Lee took up science and technology because they were inspired by someone they saw on TV.

      What they could aspire to was more of a blank canvas, because there wasn't an established trope of only X can do Y.

      You really want to say that life decades and/or centuries ago was open and filled with opportunities for regular people? Really?

    3. Re:Definitely the problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That was a brilliant response, but it's nearly certainly wasted on this set of threads. For some reason, articles like this on Slashdot are a magnet for all the mediocre white men who desperately want to blame their mediocrity on "SJW" "forced narratives". I actually saw someone say something to the effect of "The most privileged people in the world are pretending to be victims. Sickening". They were referencing *minorities*. The cognitive dissonance at work here is absolutely unimaginable.

    4. Re:Definitely the problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In a day when a female senator was the presidential candidate for a major party and actually won the popular vote, and we still have to listen to shit about letting girls know they can be whatever they want. And all we have to do is drive men away from their computers. You know what drove me into computers? Bullying and having no confidence that I could do anything else. Now you want to convince girls they can be confident enough to do what I was driven to do by a society that rejected me. Well, parents, get your little girls computers and let them train themselves like I did. I will bet most of them will be completely uninterested.

    5. Re:Definitely the problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Does your hypothesis apply to all jobs, or only the ones you cherry-pick? For example, the vast majority of murderers are men. Is this because not enough women are depicted in popular media as murderers? Can we change the murderer gender imbalance by changing how murderers are depicted in popular media?

      dom

    6. Re:Definitely the problem by Rockoon · · Score: 2

      You really want to say that life decades and/or centuries ago was open and filled with opportunities for regular people? Really?

      Yes these people really believe that.

      They cant comprehend that what the majority of famous people from history had was the free time necessary to spend a lot of time doing the things that interested them.

      ...and nothing has changed, but these people wont accept that either. They think that they can force people to do things that do not interest them, and that good outcomes will be the result.

      Its been proven time and again that social constructionism has bad outcomes.

      --
      "His name was James Damore."
    7. Re:Definitely the problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Lol, all were white upper class males from wealthy backgrounds.

    8. Re:Definitely the problem by Gussington · · Score: 1

      It's the opposite, actually. They didn't have it reinforced to them day in and day out that only someone who didn't look like them was fit to do something. What they could aspire to was more of a blank canvas, because there wasn't an established trope of only X can do Y.

      You really just said that? Oh Jesus this takes the cake for stupidest post I've read all day...

    9. Re:Definitely the problem by Gussington · · Score: 1

      Yes these people really believe that.

      It's called nostalgia goggles, or as Wikipedia has it Rosy Retrospection

    10. Re:Definitely the problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >Minorities must be victims, because...?! oh, just because.

    11. Re:Definitely the problem by anarkhos · · Score: 2

      This is the dumbest post of the day.

      The reason there are fewer female geniuses is largely biology. Women are nature's safe bet, while men are the wildcard. Men fill the prisons and somehow I don't hear feminists wining about that!

      Also, men have more compartmentalized brains and deal wit stress better (on the whole). This lends itself to a narrow focus on logical problems for extended periods of time.

      We also live shorter and less socially active lives. It's not like a career in math or science is the ultimate goal in life FFS!

      --
      >80 column hard wrapped e-mail is not a sign of intelligent
      >life
  29. Who cares? by Archtech · · Score: 1

    "Calling on" Hollywood to tweak the outrageous lies and misrepresentations it churns out may not be as important as it sounds. Garbage is garbage, no matter what colour you paint it.

    --
    I am sure that there are many other solipsists out there.
    1. Re:Who cares? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because fiction is undeniably influential in the world. I mean, if none of it matters, why bother to fight the change? It doesn't matter. And if it matters enough to fight for it, then it matters enough to change the homogenous and inaccurate portrayals.

  30. Re: But, but, but don't cast minorities as villian by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The part of Khan in "Star Trek: Into Darkness" was purposely white-washed by the producers for exactly that reason. They were afraid casting an Indian as the bad guy would insult all Indians and draw protest.

    You mean the role originated by Ricardo Montalban?

    Better rethink your example.

  31. Re: You heroes of the computer revolution are 'scu by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Still railing against "the state" when your guy is president?

  32. Re: But, but, but don't cast minorities as villian by nitehawk214 · · Score: 1

    I thought this was more of the "accent of evil" effect. Both incarnations (inkhanations?) of Khan have a British accent.

    They picked a famous actor with a British accent. Most of them are white.

    --
    I'm a good cook. I'm a fantastic eater. - Steven Brust
  33. Re: But, but, but don't cast minorities as villia by nitehawk214 · · Score: 1

    Tho I suppose with a name like Khan, yeah, the character should not be white.

    --
    I'm a good cook. I'm a fantastic eater. - Steven Brust
  34. Re:Will this effort target the "other direction" t by doctorvo · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Why not you?

    Same reason feminists love to talk about how more other women should be coders but don't want to be coders themselves.

  35. Common-sense reply here... apk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    See subject & FACT: No, people are NOT equal in abilities or know-how. E.G. - I can't compete effectively vs. Michael Jordan in his area of expertise (basketball).

    Best man for the job is what should be the case in ALL areas. Period. Better product results, not worse!

    * THIS is WHY you don't see, per my example above, 4' tall midgets in the NBA (or women) - they wouldn't give you the product you want on the whole (only real exception that was exceptional (& there's always outliers) that was 'tiny' was Spud Webb @ 5'4" tall & BEAT Jordan in the slamdunk competition iirc).

    QUESTION: Do YOU want a doctor that isn't the best possible you can afford to perform surgery on you, OR do you want an epilectic with a chainsaw to do so instead?

    APK

    P.S.=> THIS is also WHY people NEED OTHER PEOPLE - everyone you meet KNOWS SOMETHING YOU DON'T or YOU can't do (or rather is willing to do for a wage etc.) OR they have the tools, skills, & knowledge (or time) you DON'T to do a job - trick I suppose, is to FIND YOUR NICHE or place on the ladder to survive (& thus, we help one another this way)... apk

    1. Re:Common-sense reply here... apk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Woha, APK hates women too.

  36. And....., by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2

    I just went DuckDuckGo

  37. Fuck off google by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    You know who else wasn't inspired by stereotypical white nerds wearing hoodies to go into tech?
    Me, a fucking white male. I went into tech because I enjoy it, not because of socially retarded idiots on tv.

  38. What a weird mishmashed write-up by 0xdeadbeef · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "Based on our research, one of the reasons girls and underrepresented minorities are not pursuing computer science is because of the negative perception of computer scientists and the relevance of the field beyond coding."

    This line seems to be taken from a document about the movie Hidden Figures.

    That "Made with Code" project seems particularly absurd. They're trying to trick girls into learning how to program by making it about clothes and fashion. Feminism seems more intent on reinforcing stereotypes than those they accuse of misogyny.

    1. Re:What a weird mishmashed write-up by TeknoHog · · Score: 1

      That "Made with Code" project seems particularly absurd. They're trying to trick girls into learning how to program by making it about clothes and fashion.

      I organized a workshop of algorithmic art for students aged 12 to 16, using Python to create fractal art. Generally speaking, the girls were at least as interested as boys, if not more. Some of them became interested in coding in general, as they realized it's not just something for the boys and the suits; their perception of computers was limited to things like FPS games and spreadsheets.

      People need personally engaging projects to get into coding, and if it's clothes/fashion that gets you started, I don't see anything wrong with it. I generally try to widen people's perspective of math and programming, in that it's everywhere and not just in the engineering and economics, and it can be wildly creative instead of just crunching numbers for profit.

      --
      Escher was the first MC and Giger invented the HR department.
  39. Nerds Aren't Cool Anymore by boudie2 · · Score: 1

    Professor Frink: I've re-dorkulated!

  40. Sure by bobstreo · · Score: 1

    I mean how many hot bi-sexual women hackers are there? They seem to be very over represented in Hollywoo.

    They don't really want the truth about wage slaves in foreign countries working for a small percentage of what they would receive if they were employees instead of contractors.

    Or the greed of the companies the "computer scientists" work for, where people have to make the choice of following their beliefs, or aligning with corporate policies of data mining, information sharing and tracking.

    They also don't want to show how tightly integrated information companies and government agencies (in way more than just the US) are, and how they work together to repress, suppress and cause the death or incarceration of individuals just because of their beliefs.

  41. Am I in a minority? by lucaiaco · · Score: 1

    I started coding when I was about 15 years because I was in an IRC channel, and I wanted to "hack it:". I googled "how to become a hacker", and the Eric Steven Raymond's guide came up, so I started learning Unix, and shortly after coding. I liked coding so much that I almost never stopped since them, although I did not end up taking a CS major.

    How many of you think that they got interested in coding because of Hollywood (legit question)? Do you think a movie could possibly affect such a decision or induce you into having a new passion, or not have it rather?

    1. Re:Am I in a minority? by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      Late. I started younger and had to walk, uphill, against the wind (both ways), in the snow, to the datacenter at the local university.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    2. Re:Am I in a minority? by lucaiaco · · Score: 1

      I am sure a lot of people started earlier than me. The point is that not me or anybody I know started coding b/c he saw some cool character on Hollywood.

  42. What? Hollywood gets it wrong??? by DidgetMaster · · Score: 1

    You mean the average computer scientist can't walk up to an antiquated computer that they have never seen before and use it to break through the security of a bank, corporation, or prison in 30 seconds flat? I am shocked!

  43. Re:Will this effort target the "other direction" t by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No see, you don't get it. Social Justice Warriors - or those emulating their tactics - simply demand, cry, bemoan, and wail over the inequalities, in an effort to cry-itself-correct. It's up to Someone Else to actually take action. Preferably some faceless bureaucrat in the Federal Government who will insure all inequalities are corrected for us (provided those inequalities only break against the currently selected favored groups, and not those actually underrepresented).

    The role of the SJW is to highlight and shine a spotlight on perceived injustices - not actually solve problems. Because that is real work, and if it IS solved - then what do they do?

  44. Hoodie-clad? by PPH · · Score: 2

    This is the Hollywood image of coders that I grew up with.

    --
    Have gnu, will travel.
    1. Re:Hoodie-clad? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Fun fact: the guy who plays Jim is the late Maury Chaykin, who also played the witness who testified about cooking his magic grits in My Cousin Vinny!

  45. Re: But, but, but don't cast minorities as villian by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Khan Noonien Singh. In the 1960s, it was common to use "swarthy" actors to play Indians or others (witness Yul Brynner playing the King of Siam). But the intended nationality of the character was never in question - Khan was Indian, Brynner was Thai, and that was that. Benedict Cumberbatch as Khan is about as far away racially as you can get - and an interesting twist as well, given he is a lily-white Englishman portraying an evil Indian...

  46. Screw it by burtosis · · Score: 1

    I'm still watching Mr. Robot, despite this stereotype, it's a great show.

    1. Re:Screw it by freeze128 · · Score: 1

      In Mr. Robot, the F.Society group are *NOT* all white males. In fact, it's quite diverse. The company that Elliot works for might be considered less diverse, hiring only younger applicants, and of a certain background, but the name of that company is "EVIL CORP", so I think the point it well made.

  47. We have to have this conversation AGAIN?!? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If your interest in a field can be diminished by a 'negative perception,' then you aren't really that interested in that field are you?

    Don't tell feminists, but white men seem better at getting past the 'negative perception' and pursuing careers in computer science.

    Perhaps it's a self-fulfilling prophecy - since feminists constantly tell us that STEM fields are racists/sexist/homophobic/etc., fewer women and POC go into STEM fields -- this shows that STEM fields are racists/sexist/homophobic/etc. -- rinse and repeat.

  48. Coding Goodie in my Hoodie by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So, scientists don't need to wear white coats to be identified, nor doctors? Our low attention-span public needs all the subtle clues they can get to follow any narrative longer that five minutes.

  49. white men? no. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I think it is usually one White, one Indian, and a second White who is from Russia or Soviet-occupied something-istan, plus maybe a Venezuelan.

    This is an accurate match for Google's internal demographics. GOOG has about a third more women than the average programming shop, and their retention rates for women are better than the rates for men, but that's 18% * 1.33, not quite enough to have one representative in a group of four.

    I'm sure Hollywood will prefer eagerly blasting out their propaganda over accuracy. They do it for every other "issue" they can imagine, to the point that people feel so manipulated it's driving yet another round of anti-semitism.

    But America is bored and, in this case, the propaganda is aimed at children. What else are they going to do besides watch and subconsciously swallow it whole? start a knitting circle?

  50. Re:Will this effort target the "other direction" t by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Social Justice Warriors - or those emulating their tactics - simply demand, cry, bemoan, and wail over the inequalities, in an effort to cry-itself-correct. It's up to Someone Else to actually take action.

    Hear, hear. This is pretty much what defines an SJW versus your usual activist or evangelist. The SJW is far more concerned with how OTHER people act than with what they theymselves are doing.

  51. Power corrupts by fyngyrz · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Power corrupts.

    Back when Google behaved well - text ads, "do no evil", non-commercial search result ranking - they were new, and essentially powerless.

    However, Google acquired considerable power consequent to its abandonment of those good behaviors. Corruption breeds more corruption; corruption also breeds power.

    It's no surprise that they have now decided to impose social engineering on the population at large. The only remaining question is if the current trend in their behavior will be impacted by any challengers. Doesn't really look like it.

    --
    I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
    1. Re:Power corrupts by pipingguy · · Score: 2

      "they have now decided to impose social engineering on the population"

      And it's not the new definition of 'social engineering' (scamming people for password access) this time, it's the actual meaning of social engineering.

    2. Re: Power corrupts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Social Control Theory, is what I call it.

  52. Ah google... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Ah google,,, The IT arm of the world commie-hippie liberal dictarship

  53. What bullshit by Areyoukiddingme · · Score: 4, Informative

    NCIS has prominently featured a female hacker for more than a decade now. A female hacker who possesses all the same superpowers as every male hacker: she can get through any encryption in as much under 44 minutes as is required to advance the plot.

    Warehouse 13 prominently featured a female hacker for very nearly the entirety of its 5 year run, beginning 8 years ago. She didn't exhibit her hacking superpowers nearly as frequently as Abby in NCIS, but Allison Scagliotti made up for it by being improbably beautiful.

    Leverage prominently featured a black male hacker for the entirety of its 4 year run, beginning 9 years ago. He too had all the requisite hacking superpowers Hollywood insists on depicting.

    Hell, we can go all the way back to Hackers, in 1995, to find a very young Angelina Jolie playing yet another improbably beautiful female hacker. We don't know if she had hacking superpowers because real computers didn't actually appear in that movie, but I'm sure if there were any, she would have.

    Other examples are plentiful. In short, Hollywood has been injecting minorities and women into a predominantly white male role for more than a generation, predating even the existence of Google. It doesn't matter. In the face of persistent, even pervasive propaganda for an entire generation, the number of women getting CS degrees has gone down, not up. It's almost as if people object to fake role models routinely doing the impossible, especially when they know damn well that the job is simultaneously boring (to their minds) and insanely complicated, and nothing like what's depicted on TV, because guess what, everybody can use a computer, and nearly everybody has, at least a little, so they know the reality is far different.

    Bullshit propaganda is bullshit, and also a demonstrated failure. But you just keep on keepin' on, Google. I'm sure it'll start working. Aaaaany minute now...

    (Actually, white males should probably be thanking Google for these efforts. After 25 years of anti-correlation, their propaganda seems to have had the affect of reinforcing their dominance of the field. Want a fake hacker? Hire a pretty girl or a black man. Want your computer fixed? Hire a white man.)

    1. Re:What bullshit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      NCIS has prominently featured a female hacker for more than a decade now. A female hacker who possesses all the same superpowers as every male hacker: she can get through any encryption in as much under 44 minutes as is required to advance the plot.

      But can she build a GUI in Visual Basic to track an IP address..?

    2. Re:What bullshit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't forget Clarence Gilyard Jr. as Theo, the safe cracker hacker in Die Hard... 1988.

    3. Re:What bullshit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You can go even farther back, to 1993, in Jurassic Park where the granddaughter Lex said "This is UNIX! I know this!" And don't forget Inspector Gadget's niece Penny who ran everything with her computer book. That was in the mid-1980's.

      Of course those characters were both white (although as girls they should be very relatable to other young girls), but Angela Montenegro from Bones is a non-white bisexual artistic, jack-of-all-trades with a computer.

      Back in 1992, Sneakers had a team of hackers that included both a black person and a blind person.

      I don't see a shortage of non-stereotypical "hacker" types.

      dom

  54. Google Diversity: now with Cultural Marxism by Noishkel · · Score: 3, Insightful

    You know when I hear people like Paul Joseph Watson and Infowars as a whole rail about cultural Marxism I mostly just chuckle at it for the comedy that it mostly is. But every so often assholes in the tech industry prove the other crazies correct by their very actions. People at Google are so damn obsessed with diversity of skin ton and genital shape that it's starting to ignore the very concept of Google as a money making company in favor of being a vehicle for social change.

    Jesus, Google couldn't get the right mix or woman and the 'correct' kind of racial minority in positions of power by hiring them... so they got people in the media to PRETEND that it's that way?? Actually I aint even mad. I'm just flat out amused at how pathetic both Hollywood and Google is in in this. They want to make sure people doing FAKE HACKING and IT work while say shit like 'I'm rerouting through the firewall with encryption!' Oh man, that's just comedy gold.

    1. Re:Google Diversity: now with Cultural Marxism by anarkhos · · Score: 1

      Veterans of GamerGate aren't surprised at all.

      This shit goes deep. "Google Ideas" is where all this BS is sprouting from. It's run by social justice activists. Hell, the whole company is run by these crazies now as evidenced by their CEO and the CEO of YouTube.

      --
      >80 column hard wrapped e-mail is not a sign of intelligent
      >life
    2. Re:Google Diversity: now with Cultural Marxism by Noishkel · · Score: 1

      Yeah, I had noticed that myself after the fact. I wasn't involved nor really following #GamerGate when it was happening, but reading about it after the fact was rather opened my eyes as to how bad these left wing social artists are getting.

      Personally thought what really comes to my mind is just how cult like Google is. I really started to noticing that early when they started releasing manifestos about social activism even while the entirety of the media is running coverage for everything they do. It feels very very early wave Pre WW2 fascism, with power blocks starting to line up on either side. And the fact that Google is now trying to graduate into full soft fascism by using it's power base to marginalize dissenting opinions is not making them look any better.

    3. Re:Google Diversity: now with Cultural Marxism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I thought my voice is my password?

  55. Re:Will this effort target the "other direction" t by Rande · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I actually tried. Apparently I wasn't 'passionate' enough about teaching. The gatekeepers want it to be a vocation rather than just a job.

    As to why other guys don't, it's a thankless low paid job and just an accusation of sexual impropriety can run you out of the profession.

    The worst that women have to deal with in IT is variable hygiene standards and some non-PC jokes. (Okay, they have to deal with a bunch of other stuff as well, but they aren't IT specific).

  56. Uh.... what? by mark-t · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Based on our research, one of the reasons girls and underrepresented minorities are not pursuing computer science is because of the negative perception of computer scientists...

    The problem I have with this statement is that it seems equivalent to saying that "girls and underrepresented minorities" are somehow more likely to care what other people think about them if they otherwise did try to pursue a field that they believed was interesting, to such a degree that they will not try to pursue such a field in the first place if they feel that they may be negatively perceived because of it. Of course, one may argue that they are more likely to care about it because of all the other discrimination against them, and I do not wish to be dismissive of such unjust discrimination, but in the end, it still amounts to them caring more about what other people think.

    Which, to be blunt... and I hate to sound insensitive here, is really their own effing problem. If the only real thing stopping you from pursuing a field, regardless of what it is, is the fear of what other people are going to think of you if you did, then I'm pretty darn sure that you probably wouldn't be a good fit for that field in the first place.

    Find something that you love to do enough that it won't matter what other people are going to think, or else you will never be happy. That much is going to be true for both men and women, and people of all races and demographics.

    1. Re:Uh.... what? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Find something that you love to do enough that it won't matter what other people are going to think, or else you will never be happy.

      No, sorry, if you do what you love for a job, you end up fucking hate that TOO !!!
      Here's a clue: you're never going to "be happy", because most folk let someone else (the media) decide what being happy means.
      Your lot, unfortunately, my dear fellow plebian, is to "suffer" and smile and make excuses for being a temporarily embarrassed millionaire.
      Then you're easy to manipulate, to bleed, to herd, to ignore, to exploit, and finally to eliminate when you become too expensive.

      Don't do what you love for money - do what's needed for money - plumbers, mechanics, electricians, cooks, animal husbandry.
      Make some money, and LEARN to love your job as best you can.
      Do what you love for your sanity, but don't expect the other flotsam to pay for it.

    2. Re:Uh.... what? by mark-t · · Score: 1

      No, sorry, if you do what you love for a job, you end up fucking hate that TOO !!!

      I know for a fact that is not even remotely true... and in all honesty, sounds like a rationalization that gives oneself permission to be lazy about the matter, and to settle for whatever they can find (after all, if you believe that you can't be happy even doing what you love for a living, then there's no point in putting in the effort required, right?)

      I am not suggesting that doing what you love will mean that one will never have days or sometimes even extended periods where they might get frustrated with their job and sometimes even almost want to quit (goodness knows it has happened to me at times), but the willingness and drive to stick it out and keep persevering despite such times can often only come from loving what one does (because if it were driven only by the fear of losing their job, they would just search for another job as soon as they felt any such feelings of frustration)

      I love what I do, and I can't imagine doing anything else without always wanting to come back to what I do right now.

    3. Re:Uh.... what? by sabbede · · Score: 1

      The "negative perception" of computer scientists must be what keeps all the men from going into the field. Unless google is saying that women and minorities are so shallow and dumb that hearing a field is for nerds is all that's need to turn them away.

  57. The SJWs are only kept afloat by fake racism by HBI · · Score: 1

    That's why all the media lies, stories that sound juicy at first and then are revealed to be bullshit later.

    I don't know anyone who agrees with the great-grandparent AC. I wouldn't know anyone who agrees with that. Hell, my great-grandfather didn't agree with the AC either, and he was born in 1897. True, he called black people by the usual colloquial name of the age, but he thought them hard workers in the 1910s and 1920s when he had a canal boat full of people working for him in Florida, dredging the east coast canals.

    --
    HBI's Law: Frequency of calling others Nazis is directly correlated with the likelihood of the accuser being Communist.
  58. Aspergers and Money by Rande · · Score: 1

    There are more men than women with autism.
    People on the scale will gravitate to jobs that require less social interaction. Coding is one of those jobs.
    People with less social interaction will often say and do things that aren't PC because they don't care that much about what other people think and don't keep up with the latest trends in PC terminology.

    That said, if they want to get more people into coding, then there's one really easy thing they can do - pay them more and give them better working conditions. If your company has free on-site childcare, you'll have women beating down your door to get in.

    When there's a shortage of lawyers, they don't say 'we need better role models', they say 'to get the best we need to pay the best'.

    I'm sure that MS and Google would like to adjust supply and demand so that there's more supply to keep wage demands down, but for the rest of us, offer us 10% more than what we're being paid now and we'll jump ship. And with more money being offered, then more people will consider taking it up as a career choice.

    1. Re:Aspergers and Money by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's underdiagnosed because the symptoms are different in girls. And marrying someone and being their fuck toy while you sit at home doodling and painting is an option for women that isn't available to men.

    2. Re:Aspergers and Money by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That articles is clearly misogynistic and the results needs to be suppressed by all means necessary! To suggest at an autistic females is not the same as an autistic male goes against the narrative that there are no differences in how their brains are wired. We need the researchers heads on a pike so that no one dares suggest that people can be different.

    3. Re:Aspergers and Money by Rockoon · · Score: 1

      There are more men than women with autism.

      It isnt just that either... the tails on the bell curves of men are much longer than they are for women. At both extremes men will outnumber women 2:1 and higher because of these longer tails when both populations means are exactly the same, which they actually aren't. Add in a little bit of difference in population means and you get even higher disparities at one end or the other.

      There is probably an evolutionary explanation for this since women are significantly more likely to procreate than men.

      --
      "His name was James Damore."
    4. Re:Aspergers and Money by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, you're allowed to say there are differences when females are put at a disadvantage and intend to compensate for that disadvantage in some way. That is why the height requirements to be a police officer are different for men and women, else most departments would have almost no female police officers.

  59. 2001 A Space Odyssey, and Westworld (Yul Brenner) by mrflash818 · · Score: 2

    Turner classic movies had two sci-fi classics yesterday: 2001 A Space Odyssey, and Westworld (with Yul Brenner). Re-watched both.

    Odyssey was 1968 and Kubrick. Westworld was 1973 and Michael Crichton.

    It bothers me now, to see that Odyssey had _zero_ diversity. I was critically looking for anyone, even background cast that just walks past the camera, or is in a shot.

    Westworld had diversity. Both as scientific types in the underground control center, as well as being visitors to the leisure worlds.

    --
    Uh, Linux geek since 1999.
  60. Oh no, here it comes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In the 90's and 2000's, there was a formulaic type movie where a white girl would go into the ghetto, get harassed by the blacks, and by the end of the move she humanizes the orangutans.

    Instead of it being a rap competition or dance off, 2018 will see it as a computer programming competition.

    I wonder if Julia Stiles will be available for a lead role.

  61. Re: But, but, but don't cast minorities as villian by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yeah, Ricardo - the guy born and raised in Mexico.

  62. Underpaid outsourced H1B Indian dudes by mrflash818 · · Score: 1

    Well, underpaid _H1B_ Indian contract-worker dudes, it seems. They are the majority staff I see in the IT campus, and data centers, of the confidential national medical services company that I have worked at.

    --
    Uh, Linux geek since 1999.
  63. Re:2001 A Space Odyssey, and Westworld (Yul Brenne by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It bothers me now, to see that Odyssey had _zero_ diversity.

    Anti-apeist.

  64. More "Women are the primary victims of war" by PoopMonkey · · Score: 3, Funny

    "Based on our research, one of the reasons girls and underrepresented minorities are not pursuing computer science is because of the negative perception of computer scientists and the relevance of the field beyond coding."

    Funny how no one cared about the stereotypes men would face for being so nerdy/geeky/whatever when computers weren't as profitable or such a big part of society.

    1. Re:More "Women are the primary victims of war" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, if you're a feminist, you get more advantage by saying "what are the most beneficial places for women to get more representation, and what's the fastest way to get there?", not "what is the path to the total equality?".

      Nobody wants women to be more murderers, trash collectors, or mentally ill. Nobody wants women to have a lower life expectancy either. Feminists want to eat their cake and have it too.

      dom

    2. Re:More "Women are the primary victims of war" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Google care because they see a discrepancy in their employees, applicants and the population. They see a small percentage of applicants from demographics, and wonder "how many good people are we missing". Their response is to try and influence the people pursuing fields they need in those populations, so they get larger pool of good applicants.

    3. Re:More "Women are the primary victims of war" by swillden · · Score: 1

      Funny how no one cared about the stereotypes men would face for being so nerdy/geeky/whatever when computers weren't as profitable or such a big part of society.

      Interestingly enough, in that day there were a lot more women in the field. In fact, in many companies female programmers significantly outnumbered men.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    4. Re:More "Women are the primary victims of war" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In fact, in many companies female programmers significantly outnumbered men.

      Got a cite for that? Because in all the stats I've seen, women have never made up more than about 35% of programmers.

      Programmers, mind you - not keypunch operators.

    5. Re:More "Women are the primary victims of war" by PoopMonkey · · Score: 1

      You mean the keypunch girls? I respect what they did, but it's a bit of a stretch to call them programmers. They transcribed instructions from the actual programmers to punch cards. They were transcribers, not programmers.

    6. Re:More "Women are the primary victims of war" by swillden · · Score: 1

      You mean the keypunch girls? I respect what they did, but it's a bit of a stretch to call them programmers. They transcribed instructions from the actual programmers to punch cards. They were transcribers, not programmers.

      No, I mean programmers. Most programmers were women, in many parts of the industry.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    7. Re:More "Women are the primary victims of war" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, I mean programmers. Most programmers were women, in many parts of the industry.

      Source?

      This indicates otherwise, but I'm open to new info.

  65. The Smoak Syndrome by RobotRunAmok · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I would consider it a major achievement if Hollywood just acknowledged the difference between IT guys, software developers and cyber security specialists. Instead the tube is filled with Felicity Smoaks who alternate among hacking into metropolitan CCTV systems, writing applications to sift and parse through data they've just downloaded from a satellite (that they also hacked into) and re-wiring routers to transmit on a different frequency. These people don't exist in any race or gender in real life.

    1. Re:The Smoak Syndrome by Dutch+Gun · · Score: 1

      Yeah, good point. Still, I'm at least willing to acknowledge that "supergeeks" may exist in a "superhero" world. But even shows that try to present this stuff "realistically" get it so far off the mark, it actually ends up being hilarious to watch.

      --
      Irony: Agile development has too much intertia to be abandoned now.
    2. Re:The Smoak Syndrome by jcr · · Score: 1

      Am I the only one here who really doesn't give a shit how my profession is portrayed on film? I had a lot of fun and made a decent amount of money in the computer industry from 1982 up to a couple of months ago, but I don't think any of it really belongs in a movie.

      If some writer who knows precisely fuck-all about what it takes to ship a product wants to imagine a hot chick in a tight skirt and a plunging blouse typing code while giving come-hither glances over her non-prescription lenses, it's no skin off my nose. In the words of Thomas Jefferson, "it neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg".

      -jcr

      --
      The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
    3. Re:The Smoak Syndrome by djinn6 · · Score: 1

      I don't think this has anything to do with you or GP being in this profession, rather, I think most people would prefer realism from stories set in the real world. A spaceship with FTL is fine if you're watching a sci-fi movie, but it's not okay for the Titanic to be saved at the last minute by a hidden FTL drive in the 4th smokestack.

      The suspension of disbelief only goes so far, and getting critical details wrong, as is often the case when something needs to be hacked into, it breaks down completely and people who notice would find it hard to enjoy the remainder of the movie.

    4. Re:The Smoak Syndrome by mfnickster · · Score: 1

      A spaceship with FTL is fine if you're watching a sci-fi movie, but it's not okay for the Titanic to be saved at the last minute by a hidden FTL drive in the 4th smokestack.

      That, I'd pay IMAX prices to see!

      --
      "Slow down, Cowboy! It has been 3 years, 7 months and 26 days since you last successfully posted a comment."
    5. Re: The Smoak Syndrome by edgedmurasame · · Score: 1

      "Titanic with FTL drive" Dr Who did just that.

      --
      "Forget the engineers." -Carly Fiorina, briber of MIT Technology Review.
    6. Re: The Smoak Syndrome by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Even if they did exist, their resume would get screened out because they didn't list the spectrum of the oscillator used or the brand of whip antennae didn't match the job description..

    7. Re:The Smoak Syndrome by houghi · · Score: 2

      As you are on /., I am assuming you are working in IT or an IT related job, like software developer or cyber security specialist, as you mention them specifically.
      You have noticed that these jobs are not represented in a realistic way and that is probably true.

      What I want to know if you think these are the ONLY ones that are represented wrong, because I assume you are aware that they are not the only ones.

      Lawyers, doctors, nurses, teachers, police men, drunk people, bank directors, ...none of them is realistic. None of the jobs they do are done that way in real life. And you are not special to have your job sorted out while the rest is not.

      So you either get over it and enjoy the store of CGI or whatever it is there is to enjoy, or you start watching documentaries.

      I do not expect a police man to jump out of buildings, shoot up bad guys, take them to court and find the evidence all by himself on his last day before retirement where his boss yells at him and being forced to work together with a person he hates, but becomes his best buddy.

      Taking some leeway with hacking is the least of the issues if you think that things should be realistic. And I would rather have nice story with unrealistic people than a boring one with realistic ones.

      --
      Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
    8. Re:The Smoak Syndrome by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      These people don't exist in any race or gender in real life.

      Yes they do. Git gud newb.

    9. Re:The Smoak Syndrome by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      You do realize what a realistic Hollywood depiction of me at work would be: Stare at screen. FIdget. Stare at screen. Break into a bust of keyboard activity, sometimes using the mouse. Read Slashdot. Bring application up, run for a bit, hit breakpoint. Stare at screen. Push key a few times. Star at screen. Occasional swear words and muttering.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    10. Re:The Smoak Syndrome by houghi · · Score: 1

      And here I sit yelling "Enhance" and hack systems by typing "Override" in the password field.

      --
      Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
  66. When Google falters... by globaljustin · · Score: 1

    ...people will be like, "Out of nowhere, Google suddenly has financial trouble"

    This kind of program is an example of why.

    How much money that could have gone to R&D or fiber infrastructure investment has gone into marketing for Google?

    I mean, Microsoft is one of the most anti-user companies of all time and they're still around (and actually improving, though they haven't changed their core anti-user villainy). Oracle still gets huge contracts.

    But yeah, this is the kind of thing that is a red flag for a company. Rough times ahead.

    --
    Thank you Dave Raggett
  67. Chinese or Hindus by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I dont know man, but tha vast majority of people i see in tech movies or series are Chinese or Hindus look more like an stereotype.

  68. Re: But, but, but don't cast minorities as villia by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Some people did have a fit about Michael Duncan Clark playing "The Kingpin" in the Daredevil film: part of it was because they changed the race of the character and part of it because "OMG black villain, how racist!"

    The irony is that when first envisioned in the comics Kingpin was meant to be black but the editors told the artists to make him white instead because they were afraid of accusations of racism, so in fact Kingpin being black in the film was more true to the original character design.

    Also Mr. Clark was one of the few actors big and imposing enough to pull off the part and he did a rather good job with it after all. Aside from skin color he damn well looked exactly like the guy.

  69. Political correctness gone crazy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Most software engineers ARE white or asian men. Politicising movies to back up one's ideological agenda is just silly. Software engineering is an anti-social occupation that does not offer the kind of social interaction that many females prefer. Look at the personality types that are prevalent for developers. They are particularly rare for females. Whether or not biology or society determines this, I don't know, but it IS reality that people with these traits tend to gravitate towards careers like software engineering, and they do benefit enormously from possessing these traits to be able to succeed in engineering occupations. Google is beginning to become a serious nuisance, with its censorship, pro-religious agenda, and its political meddling. For example, it takes advertising money away from those who criticise religion on youtube. Likewise, it censors any content that doesn't fit with a socially conservative, essentially a fundementalist religious american right wing view of the world. It interferes in our national politics using economic blackmail. It has close links to dubious regimes with a poor record on human rights and democracy, including the United States government. It evades taxation. It is time to look at regulatory remedies, and break google into smaller pieces.

  70. Re:Will this effort target the "other direction" t by Rockoon · · Score: 1

    Why not you?

    Maybe he doesn't want to set himself up to being suspected of and then eventually being accused of being a pedophile.

    In private the majority of folks don't agree with this SJW shit, but in public they continue to say nothing against it for fear of being accused of everything bad.

    --
    "His name was James Damore."
  71. Re: Will this effort target the "other direction" by ljw1004 · · Score: 1

    You think you're making a clever point.

    But the reality is that *everyone * in the teaching profession already deplores the lack of male teachers and looks for ways to redress the balance. Male and female teachers alike know it's good for the kids to have at least some male teachers. They do everything they can short of actually raising salaries.

    Source: my experience as a male teacher, and stories from my mother who was a deputy head.

  72. Somehow not surprised by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Not surprised this is happening on a country with a culture based on stereotypes.

    When your social integration depends on identifying to "which" group you belong to, you should start looking at what causes thoses groups to form in the first place. Education, Money, Sex, Race? Stop making them important and instead let actions and contributions be the rule to measure somebody.

  73. Re:2001 A Space Odyssey, and Westworld (Yul Brenne by Sperbels · · Score: 1

    First...that was 50 years ago. Second, there were three female Russian scientists that Heywood Floyd interacted with. I also count two women in with room with during the briefing at Clavius Base.

  74. Re:Will this effort target the "other direction" t by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Nurse too! ^__^

  75. Sure.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I can see this backfiring due to the law of unintended consequences. Once Hollywood does things their way, MORE males will probably want to enter scientific fields and LESS females will join. How?

    Females: Ugh... why would I want to work alongside a bunch of bitches that are gorgeous, dress better than me, can't shut the fuck up and wave their tits around all day? Fuck that!

    Males: Whoa! There is a career field with exotic and tall women that dress in skin tight outfits who willingly flash their tits all day? Each of them is bisexual with an even hotter model girlfriend? I'M IN!

  76. Is google saying that MEN and WOMEN are different? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    *GASP*

    According to your research... WOMEN (and minorities) are more influenced by media portrayals of things than white MEN?

    You sexist, racist bastards. An army of SJW's should be knocking at your door for this.

  77. "All your attention are belong to us [the google]" by shanen · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Why does it seem like the "news" is dominated by "fake" or "stupid" in various ways? Oh yeah. I seem to have forgotten where the fish started rotting...

    The "Don't be evil" fantasy at the google died long ago. I'm pretty sure you just didn't notice until "the last year", and the minor question is "What blinded you?" Maybe your dreams of getting hired by the google died?

    The google's primary motto has become "All your attention are belong to us so we can sell more advertising as we [the google] seek perfection defined by infinite profit." This is actually tightly linked to the evolution of the google's mission statement. Turned out that all of the world's information was too overwhelming and the metric of utility was too unclear. They fixed that by focusing on making the advertisers' ads the highest priority information and using profit as the primary metric of utility. Which finally leads us to the religious part of it:

    "There is no gawd but profit, and Apple, Gilead, Google, Exxon, and some giant gamblers are profit's prophets."

    That's based on Fortune's ranking, and I'm grouping banks, speculators, and money changers as "gamblers". Other sources define "profits" slightly differently and come up with different lists. I just saw one with Exxon higher up and Samsung included. Plus the prophets change over time.

    I've come to believe that a problem without a solution is meaningless. Since I can prove that the so-called "problem" of "more profit" has no solution, I reject it. The proof is simple. There are infinite numbers, therefore there is no maximum profit. If you want a more technical proof, you can use any of the infinite set proofs. Personally I like the infinite prime numbers.

    I think it would be better if our economic system were organized around two different principles: (1) Increasing freedom, and (2) Improving the use of our limited time. As a result of practicing those principles, I don't have the money to bribe the cheapest politicians to rig the rules of the game in favor of larger profits. In contrast, the google has become a YUGE lobbyist.

    You don't want to get me started on fake individuals. Suffice it to say that corporations are NOT human beings.

    --
    Freedom = (Meaningful - Coerced) Choice != (Speech | Beer^2), and sad sock puppets' bad mods avail them naught.
  78. So do you believe in universal Turing machines? by shanen · · Score: 1

    Actually, it doesn't matter whether or not you believe because Turing defined the concept mathematically. The deeper question is whether you believe human beings are such. I admit that it's a mechanistic perception of human beings, but because I believe we are universal Turing machines, then we are all fundamentally equal in that sense. We can all solve the same problems, though each of us is faster or slower, both in learning how to solve a particular problem and in executing the solution. (Back to ekronomics...)

    Kind of a shame that there are no actually funny comments in this active discussion. At least I couldn't find any among the few that had received the mod. Where has all the wit (of Slashdot) gone? Long time passing.

    No surprise that the so-called "insightful" comments were so lacking in insight. At this point, there should be some kind of polling mechanism to total up how many of the moderated-as-insightful comments fall into the same old buckets. In this case, the dominant bucket is clearly the bucket of misogynists. In a "nicer" world, I would hope that the biggest bucket would be for hope, as in we should hope to make the world better, which starts by seeing how things can be improved. (As fundamentally EVIL as I think the google has become, at least on this issue they are dreaming (or faking a dream) in a positive direction.) I didn't keep tight score as I reviewed the current crop of so-called "insightful" comments, but I'm pretty sure I noticed a racist bucket, too, with the primary races of concern being negroid and mongoloid...

    --
    Freedom = (Meaningful - Coerced) Choice != (Speech | Beer^2), and sad sock puppets' bad mods avail them naught.
  79. Re: I saw a video claiming that you're a pederast. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Is it mysogynistic to claim women are more risk averse than men?

    I guess you can blame sexist testosterone, which peer reviewed studies show tends to increase risk tolerance in males.

    I propose that if you think women being women is misogynistic, then you're the misogynist. Women tend to be more risk averse, and that's ok. It's ok for women to not be men. Any attempt to suppress them or change them into something more male is intensely bigoted.

  80. I know what they want by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    >"We need more students around the world pursuing an education in CS, particularly girls and minorities, who have historically been underrepresented in the field"

    Sounds like some programmers just haven't given up on their dream of women coming to them.

  81. Next . . . by hduff · · Score: 1

    Next we'll be taking down statues of hoodie-clad white male coders.

    --
    "I believe in Karma. That means I can do bad things to people all day long and I assume they deserve it." : Dogbert
  82. Re:2001 A Space Odyssey, and Westworld (Yul Brenne by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I think Kubrick made conscious choices about diversity. In Eyes Wide Shut the only "person of color" is the maid of wealthy Manhattanite. The only Asians are crossdressers in make-up, which fits both the tradition of Asian theater, and also Western stereotypes. Kubrick films do lack diversity, but it's an artistic choice, not because he was racist. Eyes Wide Shut is a deep class analysis of bourgeois society, and the fact that there are no people of color is not an accident. When you watch Kubrick films, look at who has books and what kind of book. You'll see the ruling class has massive shelves of anonymous leather bound times of some antiquity, while the working class (which includes professionals such as the doctor in Eyes Wide Shut) have small shelves filled with books with flashy covers aimed at a commercial market. The lowest people (the Russian prostitute for example) have no books at all.

  83. Where have all the Donalds gone? by shanen · · Score: 1

    What? You represent the only intrusion of #PresidentTweety into the topic? And only as baggage in your sig? Well, I do agree with your sig for what little that agreement is worth. Perhaps the relevance to this discussion is that the first World CyberWar is over, and America lost. Apparently that proves the superiority of Putin's presumably male Aryan (or Slavic or something?) hackers over America's more diverse hacker community? (Actually, I think Putin had 3 fundamental advantages: (1) Surprise. (2) Broken public education. (3) American TV, especially the Simpsons.)

    Funny coincidence is that my wife motivated me to read the transcript of "The Changeling" yesterday. Not her intention, but that's a long and unfunny story, in contrast to the episode... It only takes a few minutes to silently read the 40+ minutes of dialog of that excellent and insightful story of another universal Turing machine run amok.

    --
    Freedom = (Meaningful - Coerced) Choice != (Speech | Beer^2), and sad sock puppets' bad mods avail them naught.
  84. First interracial kiss on TV by shanen · · Score: 1

    I think you should have included more concrete examples of the positive ideology of Gene Roddenberry. "May the Great Bird of the Galaxy bless your planet."

    --
    Freedom = (Meaningful - Coerced) Choice != (Speech | Beer^2), and sad sock puppets' bad mods avail them naught.
  85. Hehe, "abreast" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    President Obama was kept abreast of efforts to challenge media's stereotypical portrayals of women

  86. Don't forget the Church of Climate Change by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You can tell the B.S. by what you're not allowed to criticize. Such as the final victim counts of the Holocaust. Like we don't know the Rothschilds are running the whole human exercise in pain.

    1. Re:Don't forget the Church of Climate Change by Kohath · · Score: 1

      ...the Rothschilds are running the...

      You don't need that conspiracy stuff. I know it feels good to think you have it all figured out and are smarter and better informed than everyone else. But you really don't need it. Facts are enough. No need to also believe in stories. There are better hobbies.

  87. Daraiha Greene, Google CS in Media program manager by tommeke100 · · Score: 1

    ...and multicultural strategy. Daraiha graduated from Dartmouth College with a B.A. degree in Sociology and a minor in Theatre.

    Obviously the best person to motivate young people to choose for a CS curriculum. I bet she can teach them all about the joys of datastructures, algorithms and design patterns. And also tell them why she choose a CS career.

  88. race gap vs gender gap (incarceration) by Kartu · · Score: 1

    Just because whites have a get-out-of-jail-free card based on skin colour,

    Could you explain, why race incarceration gap is a problem, while gender incarceration gap, which is times bigger, is not?

    Maria Curie is the only human to ever get 2 Nobel Prices in different sciences, hardly a good example of oppression.
    Noether's work was not overlooked, neither was Vera Rubin's.
    Hedy Lamarr wasn't even a scientist, yet even she received great support from that weird guy you could see in Movie "Aviator".

    Girls do better in math on average, than boys do, but if you only look at top performers (700+ points) boys outnumber girls 2 to 1. Nature plays with male genes more wildly, than with female's, so there are naturally more male idiots, but also more male geniuses, many of them asocial, like this dude:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

    1. Re:race gap vs gender gap (incarceration) by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 0

      The different incarceration rates based on gender correlate to testosterone. Higher testosterone results in more violent behavior in both men and women, and the more violent the crime, the more likely to get harsher sentences instead of, say, community service or posting a peace bond. And given that men have much higher levels of testosterone, this would explain the higher male prison population. It's pretty obvious. There's even an expression that sums it up - men think with their dicks. Don't see the currency of expressions of women thinking with our vaginas, which highlights the disparity of testosterone influencing decisions and actions between men and women.

      Higher testosterone levels are related to criminal violence and aggressive dominance among women in prison, says a Georgia State University study released Sept. 23.

      The study, published in the September-October issue of Psychosomatic Medicine, measured testosterone in 87 female inmates at a maximum security prison. Their criminal behavior was scored from court records, and their prison behavior was assessed from prison records and staff interviews.

      Testosterone was found related both to the violence of the women's crimes and to the aggressive dominance of their behavior in prison. This finding was further supported by assessing how an inmate's age corresponded to her behavior and testosterone levels.

      As the amount of the hormone measured decreased in older prisoners -- testosterone declines with age -- so did the aggressive dominance. But the study concluded that testosterone, not age alone, was the significant factor; older inmates who had high hormone levels were not less aggressive or dominant.

      "The key to this study is it shows testosterone is linked to dominance in both criminal behavior and behavior in prison," says Dr. James Dabbs, a professor of psychology at Georgia State University and lead researcher on the project.

      The findings, by Dabbs and Marian Hargrove, are similar to those in studies of male prisoners. This indicates testosterone's effects on behavior are the same in women as in men, says Dabbs. Testosterone levels were highest among male inmates convicted of violent crimes such as rape, homicide and assault. These men also violated more prison rules.

      Consider that both chemical and surgical castration reduce the rate of repeat pedophile offenders from 50% to between 2% and 5%. Testosterone clearly plays a role.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    2. Re:race gap vs gender gap (incarceration) by yndrd1984 · · Score: 2

      The different incarceration rates based on gender correlate to testosterone.

      Completely true, and if you're a bully you'll want to mock them for it (e.g. men think with their dicks).

      On the other hand, pointing out the other things that correlate with testosterone levels, like willingness to take risks or mechanical aptitude, is wrong-think. Men and women must identical ... except when women are better.

      And given that men have much higher levels of testosterone, this would explain the higher male prison population.

      It explains part of it, but not all of it. Even when you only look at non-violent, first-time offenders men get longer sentences and higher fines for the same crimes than women do.

      Consider that both chemical and surgical castration [nih.gov] reduce the rate of repeat pedophile offenders from 50% to between 2% and 5%. Testosterone clearly plays a role.

      Ok, but is that a change in risk-taking, libido, or some vague 'badness' that you obviously think men have?

    3. Re: race gap vs gender gap (incarceration) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You don't have a vagina. You have a grossly mutilated penis.

      You are not a real girl.

    4. Re:race gap vs gender gap (incarceration) by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      Men thinking with their dicks is directly related to differences in the sexes. It's pitiful to watch a group of guys all drooling when a 23-year-old job applicant comes in, no qualifications, and gets the job. Their post-interview conversation amongst themselves contained zero content about the actual job. Then again, this is a tech setting, where men will be boys.

      As for the rest, unlike you, I offered links to back up what I said. And I was referring specifically to violent offenders because that's where testosterone has the most effect, both in quantity of offenders and severity of the crime.

      onsider that both chemical and surgical castration [nih.gov] reduce the rate of repeat pedophile offenders from 50% to between 2% and 5%. Testosterone clearly plays a role.

      Ok, but is that a change in risk-taking, libido, or some vague 'badness' that you obviously think men have?

      How is that relevant to the fact that reducing testosterone cuts recidivism of pedophiles by more than 90%? Answer: it's not. It's a fact, and as such, it stands on its' own, no further justification required. However, to answer your question, I made it clear that increased testosterone affects both men and women in the same way, so obviously it's not "some vague badness" that you believe I think men have. It's the first two sentences of my post you replied to, including a link for further info.

      The different incarceration rates based on gender correlate to testosterone. Higher testosterone results in more violent behavior in both men and women [sciencedaily.com]

      It's related strictly to testosterone levels, irrespective of sex, not any of the made-up reasons you attempted to ascribe to me.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    5. Re: race gap vs gender gap (incarceration) by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      The courts say otherwise. The government says otherwise. The voter's register says otherwise. My birth certificate says otherwise. My co-workers say otherwise. My friends say otherwise. My neighbors say otherwise. My doctors say otherwise. Sorry, but even if I wanted to agree with you (which I am disinclined to do), we'd be vastly outvoted :-)

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    6. Re: race gap vs gender gap (incarceration) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The chromosomes in every cell in your body say he's right. It's obvious how much effort you put into shouting down anyone who doesn't care to participate in your fantasy, but you were born male, and surgical mutilation doesn't make you female, no matter how many people you can get to play along.

      It's just as obvious that you know this, and your anger towards those who say it is really anger at yourself for failing to be a real woman. Instead of wasting your time here on /., why don't you find yourself a competent mental health practitioner to work through your self-loathing?

    7. Re:race gap vs gender gap (incarceration) by yndrd1984 · · Score: 1

      Men thinking with their dicks is directly related to differences in the sexes. It's pitiful to watch a group of guys all drooling when a 23-year-old job applicant comes in, no qualifications, and gets the job.

      It's also 'pitiful' to watch a 50 year old manager break down in tears as well. The difference is that I don't look down on other people for having hormonal differences - whether it's having a higher libido than mine or going though meopause. I try to have compassion for them and help them to well.

      Then again, this is a tech setting, where men will be boys.

      I've spent my entire life around engineers and have been one myself for almost two decades, and I don't know anyone who acts that way. -shrug-

      How is that relevant ...? Answer: it's not.

      I would like to understand why you hate half the human race, and this is relevant to that.

    8. Re: race gap vs gender gap (incarceration) by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      If you had a half-decent education, instead of what passes for one today, you'd know that chromosomes are not the be-all and end-all. For example, the woman who was kicked out of the Olympics because genetic testing said she was not a woman, and went on to have a baby.

      About 1% of all people have genetic abnormalities. Unless you want to pay for mandatory genetic testing of everyone, we'll never know how many of those abnormalities would fail genetic testing but still be able to have children. The average person has between 60 and 200 mutations unique to themselves, so are we going to say that none of them are human, they're all mutants? It would be more accurate, since we're evolving at a very high speed, and with an ever-growing population base, even the pace at which we evolve is increasing.

      In other words, we're all freaks of nature, and classifying strictly based on genes leads to errors. We already have many different combinations of sex chromosomes

      Also, let's not forget genetic chimeras and genetic mosaics. And people who have had their bone marrow destroyed as part of cancer treatment and get replacement bone marrow from a donor of the opposite sex - blood samples will test as being of the donor's sex. One day we'll be able to do that with every cell in the body. Then where will you draw the line?

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    9. Re:race gap vs gender gap (incarceration) by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      I don't hate half the human race. I just have no patience or compassion for willful fools. That includes the aforementioned guys who think with their dicks. If you haven't encountered them, you've lead a very sheltered life.

      I also have no patience for SJWs, discrimination in hiring to "correct" things like gender imbalance (equality of opportunity is not the same as equality of outcome), MRAs, feminists who cry for "safe spaces" rather than pushing to make every space safe for everyone regardless of their identifying characteristics, etc. You don't achieve equality via a biased hiring or promotion process. All you're doing is robbing the new favoured group of their dignity, the ability to say that they got where they were on merit. This rightfully creates resentment because at it's core, it's no better than trading sex for a promotion, or nepotism, or cheating.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
  89. Onus by Jfetjunky · · Score: 1

    Since when has it been Hollywood's onus to portray reality? I still find it intriguing that people don't really seem to grasp it. They can have person who can survive a 1000ft fall or bend thr trajectory of a bullet by swinging a gun while firing it. But God forbid they inaccurately portray CS professionals. OH NO!

    They portray unrealistic expectations for women/men/whatever. Yeah, because it sells. If it didn't, they wouldn't.

    1. Re:Onus by iggymanz · · Score: 1

      plenty of SJW types think Hollywood molds reality, and that if a movies depics their version of a world they've won somthings. They willl even favorable mention parts of movies that agree with whatever nonsense is between their ears.

    2. Re:Onus by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh my gosh, you mean people think that stories can influence people! Horrors no! Such a concept, that is found in the Department of Defense's Propaganda section, in Corporate Marketing departments, and even in the Church!

    3. Re:Onus by iggymanz · · Score: 1

      yes, let's talk about that Church and the type of people that are influenced by stories, and led about by an old man in funny hat spewing nonsense

    4. Re:Onus by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      yes, let's talk about that Church and the type of people that are influenced by stories, and led about by an old man in funny hat spewing nonsense

      Oh, you think it's all nonsense? Well, it turns out there are billions of people, and they do listen.

      These things shape the world, pretend otherwise at your own folly.

    5. Re:Onus by iggymanz · · Score: 1

      yeah, and they have a bigger body count than Hitler an the Nazis.

      Oh wait, he was a Roman Catholic too, wasn't he?

  90. Re:2001 A Space Odyssey, and Westworld (Yul Brenne by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It bothers me now, to see that Odyssey had _zero_ diversity.

    Why? Because it was a movie set in the future and you assume an increasing trend toward diversity (from the benefit of hindsight)? The demographics have changed wildly in the 50 years since the film was made—mostly due to changes in immigration patterns. The film was largely made in the UK, because that's where Kubrick worked and lived. In terms of general staffing they'd be drawing on a UK population that was almost entirely white (the UK was still 92% white in the actual year 2001, so we can safely assume it was at least as white in 1967-8 when they made the film). You may protest and note that the film featured many American actors and posit that casting may have been done in the US (at least for non-extras). Well, estimating from the 1970 US census puts the white and black populations at about 88% and 11% respectively. Ignoring the fact that there were few opportunities for blacks in Hollywood then, at best you'd have a roughly 9:1 ratio if the film were representative of the population.

    Now if your complaint is about the dearth of women in Odyssey, I suggest you take a good look at the films being made more recently and note how many still have largely male casts and how small the roles still are for women and how often they are just a 1-dimensional love-interest character whose only purpose is to serve as a prize or goal or to hang attractively on a man's arm. Frankly, it feels like finding an oasis in the desert when I watch something like Holofcener's Enough Said and get to see women resembling real, interesting human beings, even in the 2010s.

  91. Re: I saw a video claiming that you're a pederast by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Sounds like a bunch of excuses. Why do people constantly try to excuse the racist and sexist society we live in? Oh it isn't that people refuse to hire racial and ethnic minorities it is just that they are somehow not as intelligent ad the White man. Oh it isn't that we demean women, it is just that are just too sensitive. This is a bunch of bullshit. Ive seen dumb ass White males in leadership positions they only got because they were White. Ive seen little men get all whiny and throw hissy fits when they couldn't get their way. The only difference between people is that some get special breaks that others don't. Cut with the B's already, the only thing your skin color changes about you is your complexion, get over it. I know some people are afraid of having to compete with others because of their low self-esteem but this is the world you have made. That will change soon as we make the world, one in which cooperation not competition will be the Hallmark of success and we will all see ourselves as the humans we all are, diverse, flawed but beautiful nonetheless. So screw all that White nationalist garbage, there is no White race - we are all humans. Get over it.

  92. Re: But, but, but don't cast minorities as villia by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Some people did have a fit about Michael Duncan Clark playing "The Kingpin" in the Daredevil film: part of it was because they changed the race of the character and part of it because "OMG black villain, how racist!"

    Nope, it was the first. People were aghast that they put a black man in the role. Because how DARE THEY.

    Same with Jon Stewart being the Green Lantern in Justice League.

    The irony is that when first envisioned in the comics Kingpin was meant to be black but the editors told the artists to make him white instead because they were afraid of accusations of racism, so in fact Kingpin being black in the film was more true to the original character design.

    You know, I never heard this story, can find no mention of this story elsewhere, and short of calling Stan Lee to ask him, would like you to authenticate it anywhere.

    Also Mr. Clark was one of the few actors big and imposing enough to pull off the part and he did a rather good job with it after all. Aside from skin color he damn well looked exactly like the guy.

    He'd have been better off rejecting the role.

    I'm not saying it was a career killer, but seriously....

  93. Re: I saw a video claiming that you're a pederast. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Actually yes, the differences between men and women are a fact, there were peer reviewed publications confirming this, and only PC gestapo is silencing the researchers now and replacing it with the constructivist tosh..

  94. Re: I saw a video claiming that you're a pederas by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yeah sista lets all go Emperor Christof of Haiti and show them how to run a country properly. Baron Subotie help us!

  95. bigotry by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Google sure does hate people who look like me.

  96. Re: I saw a video claiming that you're a pederas by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    We're starting at the end and trying to determine causality retroactively here. Women don't get into science, technology, the trades, or business as much as men do. Full stop. That's a fact. Undeniable.

    Any explanation that you come up with is going to have to explain the difference. You simply cannot have an explanation that doesn't. Because the data is there. There's no two ways around it.

    I guess we can just go full bizzaro-Hitler and claim its because of the inherent moral inferiority of white males, but I feel that's first not constructive, and second totally fucking evil bigotry.

    I never passed value judgements on women for the established fact that they are more risk averse than men. Honestly, risk aversion isn't a good thing or a bad thing. It's just a thing. It's why men tend to be rich, but it's also why men tend to be homeless. It's why men tend to dominate the highest paid fields, but it's also why they dominate workplace fatalities. Risk is good and bad.

    In seeing if the data actually stacked up with the video I watched, I discovered that female multi-millionaires tend to keep more of their fortunes in low risk vehicles such as bonds. I think that's an apt metaphor: you can never get rich investing in grade a bonds, but you'll never lose your shirt. By contrast, you can get rich investing in stocks, but many stocks are eventually worthless.

    The interesting thing about this idea is that it specifically isn't saying women are less capable of being coders, or technologists, or tradespeople, because I don't believe that. Moreover, an ability gap wouldn't explain why more people don't get into a field in the first place -- there are plenty of incompetent men, it doesn't follow that incompetent people would magically choose not to get into these things just because they're women.

    And whereas you can explicitly point at socioeconomic factors with respect to race, you can't do the same with gender. A family who has been living with the consequences of slavery for 200 years undeniably has reason to explain why they haven't gotten into this upper middle-class vocation. By contrast, every single human being was born has a 50-50 chance of being a female so they are going to make up all parts of the social strata. You're going to have poor women and rich women.

    So that leaves us with a peculiar situation. Is 50% of 50% of the population responsible for somehow massively affecting a full 50% of decision-makers?

  97. Re:Will this effort target the "other direction" t by swillden · · Score: 1

    According to a 2015 USC report, President Obama was kept abreast of efforts to challenge media's stereotypical portrayals of women...

    This news piece talks of the absence of male teachers.

    I'd like to have an effort targeted to this imbalance too. Google, anyone?

    Why would Google care about that? Google cares about the lack of diversity in its own hiring pipeline because diverse teams are more productive and creative, and it just can't find enough non white/asian males who are top notch software engineers. So, this.

    Why would Google care about gender imbalance in a profession that is not part of its business?

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  98. Re:Will this effort target the "other direction" t by swillden · · Score: 1

    Why not you?

    Same reason feminists love to talk about how more other women should be coders but don't want to be coders themselves.

    I know lots of feminists who are coders. Most of them are men, though.

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  99. What a waste of time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This guy could have been making search engines better (Like having upvote and downvote buttons on results) instead he chose to pick up a femnazi torch and blag about mindless drivel no one cares about... "FICTION MUST EQUAL LIFE".... no mate... fiction is fiction... its not REAL.

  100. Re: But, but, but don't cast minorities as villian by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Khan Noonien Singh is about as "Indian" as Ricardo Montalban was "Japanese" or Marion Mitchell Morrison was "Mongolian" and the reason for his name was merely an affectation of Gene Roddenberry about some person he knew with a similar name, or so the story goes. In terms of back story and character, what little details were developed, show no connection to any heritage of the Indian subcontinent.

    Not that I imagine they mind, he is a deplorable individual.

    And the original concept had him as a Nordic individual.

    However, more to the point, Ricardo Montalban was known for his outspoken views on casting and ethnicity in Hollywood and acting. He lost some jobs because of it, and cost others work as faux Latinos.

  101. Not really by xenobyte · · Score: 1

    Been coding since early 1980's and I don't even own a hoodie... I've had plenty of friends, including girlfriends... For me coding was a social event, meeting up with friends and creating exciting stuff. Sure there are geeks living in the parents basement, but I doubt computer geeks do this more than other types of geeks. I think it's more or less pure fiction created by Hollywood.

    --
    "For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong." -- H.L. Mencken (1880-1956) --
  102. Re: I saw a video claiming that you're a pederas by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Whoa now, reasonability like this can get you fired! Are you SURE this is the hill you want to die on?

  103. wait a minute.... by poity · · Score: 1

    So negative stereotypes fulfilled by white male actors have resulted in disproportionately more white men filling those jobs in real life.

    Hmmmmm.....

    --
    your thin skin doesn't make me a troll
  104. I have a solution by famebait · · Score: 1

    Slashdot needs to add clear trigger warnings to articles so that the broflakes can avoid material that will upset them. Which is pretty much everything. There, saved you a fair few bucks in implementation cost.

    --
    sudo ergo sum
  105. Re:"All your attention are belong to us [the googl by houghi · · Score: 1

    The "Do no evil" thing was gone when they bought and broke DejaNews.com. The "Do no evil" is just as valuable as "New and improved" on you washing powder or "Stuff that matters" at /.

    For me it was always unrealistic. At some point or another what they consider "Do no evil" will be not in line what I think, no matter how noble they are. And I am just one person.

    --
    Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
  106. "Murder, She Wrote" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Out of date, maybe.

    But if a computer is used, it is used correctly. Unlike "Scorpion".

    That is more important than the skin color of the actor...

  107. hollywood, stereotypes? Naaah... by sad_ · · Score: 1

    you mean like the mad scientist, smart kids are always nerdy (and sporty types are cool), or the way gay people are portraid, etc etc...

    --
    On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero.
  108. Re:2001 A Space Odyssey, and Westworld (Yul Brenne by anarkhos · · Score: 1

    If this bothers you, I think you might be in search of difficulty in your life.

    --
    >80 column hard wrapped e-mail is not a sign of intelligent
    >life
  109. 'Member when Google... by anarkhos · · Score: 1

    'Member when Google was about making your life easier?

    'Member when Google was just a really good search engine?

    'Member when Google made tools which were cheap and easy to use?

    'Member when Google was focused on making their company valuable and vying for our business?

    'Member when Google had competition?

    'Member when Google wasn't evil?

    I 'member...

    --
    >80 column hard wrapped e-mail is not a sign of intelligent
    >life
  110. Re:Will this effort target the "other direction" t by doctorvo · · Score: 1

    I know lots of feminists who are coders. Most of them are men, though.

    The population we're talking about isn't "feminists who are coders" but "feminists who advocate coding but refuse to do it themselves". Those kinds of hypocrites are common.

  111. I never said that... apk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I point out 'diversity' can make things lesser & produce lesser results not using the BEST PEOPLE for a job @ hand.

    (It's just common-sense & easily illustrated with proofs it is as I outlined it - which is also WHY the Marine Corps commandant also will not allow women who cannot stand up to the requirements put upon all other marines (men)).

    * People are NOT created "all equal" for all things...

    APK

    P.S.=> That's a fact & exactly how I outlined it - I suggest you either learn to read properly OR quit trying your bullshit you UNIDENTIFIABLE ANONYMOUS fool... apk

  112. Something like black Achilles or black Zeus? by Mrakodrap · · Score: 1

    When it won't work by brute force, use even more brute force? Et tu, Bruto?

  113. Re:Will this effort target the "other direction" t by Trondheim · · Score: 1

    "Google cares about the lack of diversity in its own hiring pipeline because diverse teams are more productive and creative..."

    Do you have any hard data on this claim, or are you just parroting liberal talking points?

  114. I honestly hope Trump puts you in a camp by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    weirdo

    1. Re:I honestly hope Trump puts you in a camp by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      Better to be weird and useful than stupid and useless. So what's your point? Trump won't put me in a camp - he can't even have me arrested for using the women's washroom in Texas (thanks to my birth cert).

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
  115. I blame it on the TRS-80 ad campaign... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There was an interesting episode of the Planet Money podcast (I think) about how, before the TRS-80, a lot of women and girls were involved in computers. The TRS-80 came out, and its ad campaign was exclusively aimed at boys. As a result, parents bought it for their sons, not their daughters, and a generation of computer-crazed boys was created, rather than boys and girls. Here's the link: http://www.npr.org/templates/transcript/transcript.php?storyId=487069271

  116. WTF by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Google "wants to change" that stereotype? WTF?

    What if the other colors, creeds and sexes simply are not interested in computing (which seems to be the issue as of what Google thinks)?

    This world is getting shittier every day. God damn it.

  117. What about her? by AnnaZed · · Score: 1

    Surely Lisbeth Salander makes up for all of this?

  118. You want to be taken seriously? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Anyone who wants to be taken seriously as a gender equality advocate needs to firstly be vocal and vigorous in advocating against the societal pressures, demands, and unjustices that result in gender disparity w.r.t. longevity. That's right. First fix all the things that make men, statistically-speaking, die younger than women.

    And then, for U.S. SJWs, make sure the U.S. Government treats men and women equally w.r.t. requirements for for Selective Service registration.

    And then work to figure out why almost no women volunteer for front line combat duty in the Army and equalize that outcome ... the opportunity is certainly there.

    We need equality in all the dangerous and life-expectancy-reducing activities and responsibilities before we need it anywhere else.

  119. Re:2001 A Space Odyssey, and Westworld (Yul Brenne by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Speaking of Crichton movies, remember The Andromeda Strain? Great movie... And, if I'm not mistaken, a lead character who was a man in the book was cast as a middle-aged woman in the movie.

  120. Re:Will this effort target the "other direction" t by swillden · · Score: 1
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  121. Re:Will this effort target the "other direction" t by swillden · · Score: 1

    I know lots of feminists who are coders. Most of them are men, though.

    The population we're talking about isn't "feminists who are coders" but "feminists who advocate coding but refuse to do it themselves". Those kinds of hypocrites are common.

    No, that's the population you're talking about... but not what you actually said. If that's what you meant, you should have said it. Of course, if you had said it, your comment would have been:

    Same reason feminists who advocate coding but refuse to do it themselves love to talk about how more other women should be coders but don't want to be coders themselves.

    Which is tautological.

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  122. Re:Will this effort target the "other direction" t by doctorvo · · Score: 1

    No, that's the population you're talking about... but not what you actually said

    Are you kidding me? I literally said "feminists who advocate coding but refuse to do it themselves" both in the first posting and in the second.

    Are you representative of the kind of people Google hires these days?

  123. OMG WOMEN ARE PEOPLE TOO by lucm · · Score: 1

    _it_will_self_regulate_ with women exiting the field.

    It has. But phonies insist on blaming it on the industry (sexists! racists!) and pouring money and energy in programs to attract women to IT, instead of accepting that this is simply not the kind of work they want to do.

    See, the stats are skewed because all we hear about in the media is the cool part of IT, like creating facebook bots using dockers on macbooks or tweaking snapchat GUIs using githubs and hadoop. But the reality is that the vast majority of IT workers do NOT work with "cool" stuff; they configure switches, schedule backups, monitor disk usage, calibrate sensor packs, debug unit tests in stale ERP packages, and often doing it on old clunky computers hidden in poorly lit cubicles. Tedious, repetitive work with little or no human interaction. These tasks can be done by any human being with the proper training, but they happen to attract males more than females. That's not sexist. So having diversity hiring programs just means that companies have to set aside waves of qualified candidates to find acceptable ones that have the right set of chromosomes. This is complete and absolute bullshit.

    The nasty situations (such as the countless incidents at Uber and other places) are not the cause of the lack of women in IT, they're a consequence of it. Put a 15% minority in any situation and the same kind of patterns will appear, and this is made even worse in this case because IT doesn't simply attract male workers, it specifically attracts male workers that are either on the spectrum or real close, and have therefore less awareness of social manners.

    So go fuck yourself with your "afraid of women" narrative. Anyone with a handful of brain cells can see what's really going on here, it's called hypocrisy and self-destructive political correctness. I understand that it's exciting for people like you to feel like you're brave pioneers fighting against a corrupt sexist system, but really you're just pathetic.

    --
    lucm, indeed.
  124. The Biggest HR drive by Gob+Gob · · Score: 1

    ......to improve its hiring base since Top Gun!

  125. Re:Will this effort target the "other direction" t by hondo77 · · Score: 0

    I actually tried. Apparently I wasn't 'passionate' enough about teaching. The gatekeepers want it to be a vocation rather than just a job.

    So you failed and instead of it being your fault it must be because women are conspiring against all men (and ready to file harassment lawsuits against the ones who do make it past the gatekeepers). How convenient for you.

    --
    I live ze unknown. I love ze unknown. I am ze unknown.
  126. Of Course by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Don't worry Google, if anyone disagrees with you you can fire them or create fake outrage!

  127. ‘If you were a man you would be going to pri by Kartu · · Score: 1

    Judges literally saying: "‘If you were a man you would be going to prison today’
    http://www.crimeonline.com/201...

    This (same crime in same circumstances getting wildly different punishment) is justified by 'correlation to testosterone"?

  128. Screw that, screw you, and screw this pc crap by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I did not join IT because I saw white males in the position and was inspired. I'm white.
    I joined IT because I had a hobby that included lots of computer work, and I loved it.

    You know why people don't want to do IT?
    It's freaking hard. And most people do not want to deal with it.

    I almost don't want to deal with it anymore because of this PC crap. I'm continually told, by trash articles such as this, I'm no different than anyone else in the field.
    Well let me tell you this. I AM different. I AM better than most. But to help uphold the humility I do have, I love computers, and I am only this good at it, because of that very reason.

    People who do not love it, will never be as good as those who do. And you cannot instill that no matter the click-bait or whatever tantrums are satisfied by Google, Apple, or whoever else who thinks they need more minorities, genders, etc. Because the truth of the matters are, minorities are only minorities as long as they're the smaller portion. But all of this is crap. And YOU'RE basing the quality of ones' work on the color of their skin. You're an idiot Google. You're an idiot Apple. You're an idiot 'insert company here'.

    Stop doing that.

  129. The Matrix (1999), Mr. Robot by omfglearntoplay · · Score: 1

    The Matrix was basically about a bunch of hackers. I think there was one white guy in the bunch... the Mouse guy with the bleeding ears. Otherwise, you had Neo, who is half-Hawaiian, Trinity and lots of females in general, Morpheus and lots of black or brown people, a New Zealander, etc. Tank that had the cool Latino(?) accent. Almost forgot Cypher... he is a white guy.

    Essentially all the bad guys are pure white guys, and 99% of them are just programs.

    Mr. Robot... the guy is Egyptian blooded. Is that white? Several black and female hackers on that show.

    Anyway... just thought that was sort of interesting that even with The Matrix and a more modern "Mr. Robot" with a vast amount of non-white guy representation, we still need more apparently. I think people who care need to get back to the liberal basics... all humans are worth something no matter the color of their skin, where they come from, or their beliefs.

    1. Re:The Matrix (1999), Mr. Robot by mfnickster · · Score: 1

      Morpheus: "Hello, Neo. I am Morpheus."
      Neo: "Jesus..."
      Morpheus: "What?"
      Neo: "Nothing, I just thought...you were a white guy."
      Morpheus: "Most white guys do!"

      --
      "Slow down, Cowboy! It has been 3 years, 7 months and 26 days since you last successfully posted a comment."
  130. Re: Will this effort target the "other direction" by beastofburdon · · Score: 0

    Everything short of raising salaries and:
    - Treating them like human beings
    - Giving any type of incentives like male only scholarships (like the female only ones being handed out left and right in engineering)
    - Not throwing them under the bus the moment they are accused of anything
    - - This one is the most important. It is extremely common for young girls to accuse their male teachers of abuse for social or monetary gain. So common, in fact, that it is the primary reason very few men enter or stay in teaching. It is far to high of a liability.

  131. Re:Will this effort target the "other direction" t by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Sorry, but I will never go back to teaching. In California, unless you are a far left liberal, forget even thinking about teaching.

  132. Re:I remember doing similar something in high scho by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
  133. What's wrong with white men? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Most TV computer scientists are still white men," USA Today reports. "Google wants to change that."

    Why? Is that not realistic? Do they think somehow life is going to imitate art just because?