Apple Announces iPhone X With Edge-To-Edge Display, Wireless Charging and No Home Button (theverge.com)

At its event in Cupertino, California today, Apple unveiled the iPhone X to mark the 10th anniversary of the iPhone. It brings several new features including an edge-to-edge screen, Qi wireless charging, and Face ID. The Verge reports: Because of its edge-to-edge display, the iPhone has no place for a conventional home button, relying instead on a complex facial recognition system to unlock the phone. Called FaceID, the new system will replace TouchID, the home button sensor that's enabled fingerprint logins since 2013's iPhone 5S. Users can wake the phone by swiping up from the button instead of hitting the button. The same gesture will open the control panel once the phone is awake. The updated iPhone 8 will continue unchanged, including both the home button and TouchID. Apple also unveiled the iPhone 8 and 8 Plus, which are updated versions of the iPhone 7 and 7 Plus released last year. These new devices feature glass backs with support for wireless charging. The Verge provides some additional specs and features in its report: Apple has improved the display on the iPhone 8 line, adding the same True Tone technology it offers on the 10.5-inch iPad Pro to automatically adjust the screen based on the ambient light in the room to offer more accurate colors. Internally, Apple has upgraded the processor from the A10 Fusion found in the 7 to the A11 Bionic. It's a six-core chip with two performance cores that are 25 percent faster than the A10, and four performance cores that the company says are 70 percent faster that the old model. There's also a new Apple-designed GPU that's 30 percent faster, with the same performance as the A10 at half the power. On the camera front, there's a new 12-megapixel sensor on the iPhone 8 that is larger, faster, and finally has optical image stabilization. The iPhone 8 Plus also has new sensors, and offers f/1.8 and f/2.8 apertures now. The dual cameras on the 8 Plus also have a new "Portrait Lighting" feature to adjust the lighting for portrait shots. And Apple says that the improvements apply to video, too, with Apple executive Phil Schiller claiming that the new devices have the "highest quality video capture ever in a smartphone," with support for 4K/60fps video. Slow motion videos now support up to 1080p resolution at 240fps, doubling the the iPhone 7's 120fps option. The iPhone 8 will start at $699 for a 64GB model, while the 8 Plus will start at $799 for 64GB of storage. You can preorder these devices starting Friday, September 15th, and they will be released a week later on September 22nd.

UPDATE 9/12/17: The iPhone X will be priced starting at $999 for the 64GB variant. Pre-order will be available October 27th with shipments starting November 3rd.

Comments

Not want

[XXongo]

No, I'm sorry, I don't really want a phone that starts up when it thinks it recognizes my face.

I'd like a plain "on" button, thank you.

Re:Not want

[that this is not und]

But a phone that unlocks when it sees your face is one that the police can confiscate and unlock by simply aiming it at your face.

Why wouldn't you want that convenience?

Re:Not want

[HornWumpus]

Point it at your junk when it wants the reference picture. Duh.

Re:Not want

[the_skywise]

Well it only works if your eyes are open so they can't mace you then try to scan you...

Re:Not want

[MikeDataLink]

But a phone that unlocks when it sees your face is one that the police can confiscate and unlock by simply aiming it at your face.

Why wouldn't you want that convenience?

They addressed this in the presentation. You have to look at it with your eyeballs. As long as you look away with your eyes, it won't unlock.

Re:Not want

[sehlat]

But a phone that unlocks when it sees your face is one that the police can confiscate and unlock by simply aiming it at your face.

Why wouldn't you want that convenience?

I'd like to get some information on just how accurate that face-match actually is. For example, my beard length changes over several months until I trim it back for another crop. I'm also wondering just how many attempts before you have to type in your passphrase.

Re:Not want

[Joce640k]

I've done nothing wrong.

Re:Not want

[that this is not und]

Go ahead and sit in that room with your eyes closed. We have plenty of time.

Re:Not want

[Anonymous Coward]

My TouchID does not work either if I don't wash my hands for days. There are always whiners.

Re:Not want

[MikeDataLink]

Go ahead and sit in that room with your eyes closed. We have plenty of time.

You can open your eyes, just look left right up down and not at the device.

Re:Not want

[Anonymous Coward]

Well it only works if your eyes are open so they can't mace you then try to scan you...

Then they use a mugshot from the last time you were inside...

Re:Not want

[BasilBrush]

Not eyes open. Eyes looking at the phone.

If you're just going to hold them until they do it, then that's no worse than a password, and it's better than touchID (which you can force).

Re:Not want

[Anonymous Coward]

They need a special eyeball gesture to wipe the phone

Re:Not want

[that this is not und]

We have plenty of time.

Re:Not want

[Anonymous Coward]

They made it sound like it would train itself over time. So if your beard grows a little bit each day, no problem. It just keeps adjusting. However if you suddenly shave a 12 inch beard off I wonder how well it will do :)

Re: Not want

[DaHat]

How is that any different than the current t world where the police could compelled you to touch the finger print reader on your device?

Re:Not want

[jmv]

Don't worry, they're already working on the next model that will remove the screen entirely and just do whatever you should want to do.

Re:Not want

[Thyamine]

Most likely it will be like previous versions that allow you to use a password (not PIN) to unlock your phone. Same with TouchID. Most likely same with this. No requirement to use it. it's up the user to choose between security and convenience.

Re:Not want

[Anonymous Coward]

Rumour has it that there is a "turn off face recognition and require password" mode that you can use when going through airport security, etc.

Re: Not want

[Anonymous Coward]

Or they can put your fingers on the button till it opens. Or they can say "input your password" or we're going to tear your dick off.

Re:Not want

[DontBeAMoran]

Time not important. Only life important.

Re:Not want

[Anonymous Coward]

Which also won't work since it has both a heat detection and depth detection system.

Re:Not want

[Joce640k]

They addressed this in the presentation. You have to look at it with your eyeballs. As long as you look away with your eyes, it won't unlock.

What if I'm wearing sunglasses? I can't use my phone?

If they've got that technology then why do they even need a "home" gesture. People could just cross their eyes or something to go home, much easier than using a stupid gesture that will probably give you RSI if you try to use the phone one handed.

Re:Not want

[DontBeAMoran]

They said in the keynote that Touch ID accuracy was 1 in 50K and Face ID is 1 in one million.

Re:Not want

[DontBeAMoran]

Siri: What happened? Is it Christmas already? You're playing Santa?

Re:Not want

[sexconker]

Print out mugshot, have some rando press it tightly against their face.
At worst you'll need to do some deformation in photoshop prior to printing.

Re:Not want

[Anonymous Coward]

Who the fuck cares what YOU want. Plenty of low tech options for you to enjoy. The rest of us will keep moving onward while you stand there on the street corner screaming that your phone doesn't have a "button".

Re:Not want

[sexconker]

Big badda boom.

Re:Not want

[Anonymous Coward]

That's cool. They can just put it behind the two-way mirror in the interrogation room. When you walk up to it, staring at your face, it will unlock your phone for them!

dom

Re:Not want

[that this is not und]

It is MUCH worse than a password. A password your are constitutionally protected from having to divulge. Biometrics? Naw.

Re: Not want

[Anonymous Coward]

Muuuultipass

Re:Not want

[fustakrakich]

:-) Really, that would be a sight, everybody dropping their drawers when they want to make a call. Of course it might not be such an inconvenience for the Scots.

Re:Not want

[edtice1559]

You could just unlock it with a PIN

Re:Not want

[SuperKendall]

I'm sure crumpled paper will line up exactly with the 30k dots it has remembering the exact depth of your face.

Now Arya Stark must be beaming with glee over the windfall coming her way.

Re:Not want

[Anonymous Coward]

Except that the courts have already deemed that though passwords are protected by the 5th amendment, bio-metrics are not. So if you refuse to look at it with your eyes, they'll just hold you on contempt until you do.

Re:Not want

[cayenne8]

I thought it strange...

While the introduction was going on, the stock price dropped and still hasn't come back up even to what it started the day at...

I wonder if that many folks in the market don't like these features either?

Re:Not want

[cayenne8]

It is MUCH worse than a password. A password your are constitutionally protected from having to divulge. Biometrics? Naw.

I was thinking along the same lines.

The facial tech they packed in there, indeed looked pretty neat.

I think it could possibly have some very useful uses, but I"d certainly NOT want to use it for identification and access.

Re:Not want

[dgatwood]

Actually, it's moving backwards in a life-critical way. You can safely unlock your iPhone while driving and then tell Siri to do stuff without looking at the screen. With this, to unlock it, you have to look at the screen. So unless Apple convinces people to let Siri always listen (creepy), this is likely to cause a lot of additional traffic accidents that otherwise would not have occurred. They really should have put a touch sensor on the back.

Re: Not want

[Anonymous Coward]

That tech could be really cool for a lot of uses. A quick 3d scan of an item you want to duplicate with your 3d printer. But how much of the tech will be available to third party developers, since it is targeted for 'security', we will have to wait and see.

Re: Not want

[Anonymous Coward]

We will make sure you have the opportunity to tell that to the judge.

Re: Not want

[cayenne8]

How is that any different than the current t world where the police could compelled you to touch the finger print reader on your device?

Well, anyone wanting a bit more security than that, would use a passcode rather than a biometric key such as a fingerprint.

Just because it is there, doesn't mean you have to use it, or that it is smart to use it for your given situation and security/privacy concerns.

Re:Not want

[cayenne8]

So unless Apple convinces people to let Siri always listen (creepy), this is likely to cause a lot of additional traffic accidents that otherwise would not have occurred.

You should NOT be talking or texting on a phone if you are driving in the first place!!!

Re:Not want

[jcr]

..and you can set it to require your passcode after a certain time.

-jcr

Re:Not want

[SuperKendall]

You can do that same thing with an iPhone X using "Hey Siri". You don't unlike your phone BEFORE you start driving? Come on.

Re:Not want

[BasilBrush]

There's no law that says you must look at your phone when they tell you.

Re:Not want

[Anubis IV]

I get the point you're making, but it's worth pointing out for others that it doesn't just unlock when it thinks it sees you. Rather, it waits for you to focus your attention on it first. It's also worth mentioning that the false positive rate on Touch ID was 1 in 50,000, which was fine for the vast majority of their customers, whereas Face ID is 1 in 1,000,000. If you were already okay with Touch ID's level of accuracy, or else were on the fence before and just wanted it to be a bit better, Face ID may be the leap forward in accuracy that you wanted, even if it seems weirdly different at first glance.

Re:Not want

[kamapuaa]

Down .42% for the day! Holy crap! Sell, sell, sell!

Re:Not want

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm pretty sure one scene said you can simply speak Hey Siri to activate ("oops, sorry if that activated yours lol")

Which means an always-on microphone.

nopenopenope.avi

Re:Not want

[aix tom]

I'm sure crumpled paper will line up exactly with the 30k dots it has remembering the exact depth of your face.

Great. Then you can't unlock the phone after you had an accident and your face itself is slightly crumpled.

Re:Not want

[HornWumpus]

That skill would require many hours of Kegels to perfect.

Also fat 'finger' issues, for me anyhow.

Re:Not want

[Farmer Tim]

But they could just send an instant message to it and let Pavlovian conditioning do the rest.

Re:Not want

[Anonymous Coward]

The tech-support calls from blind people are going to be some call-center classics.

Re:Not want

[MachineShedFred]

Gee, you don't think it's because everybody plays tech stocks with the strategy of "buy on rumor, sell on news" do you?

No, I'm sure it's because the tech geniuses at the hedge funds think these new products are terrible, and that Apple is going to sell zero units and burn through their hundreds of billions of dollars in their Scrooge McDuck Money Bin on the new Campus in the next quarter...

Hint: this happens on every launch day.

Re:Not want

[MachineShedFred]

Because I'm sure it doesn't have a backup PIN, exactly like the fingerprint thing already does.

Re:Not want

[Anonymous Coward]

Only as much time as it takes for my lawyer to get here and tell you that you are attempting an illegal search. It may not actually be an illegal search per current case law, but any lawyer worth putting down a retainer on would be able to convince the police it's not worth it unless it's a major crime.

Re:Not want

[MachineShedFred]

Because I'm sure they don't have the tried-and-true PIN entry available still, just like OMG WHAT IF I'M WEARING GLOVES AND IT CAN'T READ MY FINGERPRINT?!

It's not like it takes a room full of PhDs to figure that one out...

Re:Not want

[MachineShedFred]

Don't worry, there's enough hipsters at Apple that I'm sure it's beard-tested. Probably mustache-wax tested too.

Re:Not want

[Anonymous Coward]

Apple has made changes in iOS 11 to allow you to quickly and easily lock the phone so it requires the passcode to unlock.

Re:Not want

[sexconker]

I'm sure your actual face will line up exactly with the 30,000 dots it remembers.

Oh wait, it won't. Not by a long shot. The amount of wiggle room biometrics have is staggering.

Re:Not want

[Killall -9 Bash]

How does Steve Jobs' mummified cock taste?

Re: Not want

[Anonymous Coward]

You farm your beard?

Re:Not want

[cayenne8]

Down .42% for the day! Holy crap! Sell, sell, sell!

Well, not so much that...

But, I believe it was up as much as nearly 2 points before the Apple presentation and started dropping during the unveiling....just seemed strange to me.

But then again, I"m still trying to figure out the stock market....it appears this, for some reason, maybe be normal reaction.

Re:Not want

[cayenne8]

Only as much time as it takes for my lawyer to get here and tell you that you are attempting an illegal search. It may not actually be an illegal search per current case law, but any lawyer worth putting down a retainer on would be able to convince the police it's not worth it unless it's a major crime.

Well, I believe some of those rights go out the door, or into limbo when you're at the US borders.

Re:Not want

[eth1]

But a phone that unlocks when it sees your face is one that the police can confiscate and unlock by simply aiming it at your face.

Why wouldn't you want that convenience?

That does open up the interesting possibility of a "duress" expression that wipes the phone when it sees it... :P

As a bonus, it will have been the cop doing the erasing, not you, so you'd not be on the hook for destroying evidence.

Re:Not want

[Altus]

Normal apple stock behavior, it goes up in anticipation of an announcement and then drop a bit when folks are selling off at what they expect is a local maximum (and it usually is). Its been like this for a long time

Re:Not want

[Kozar_The_Malignant]

I have no explanation, but I've noticed that this happens every year.

Re:Not want

[AmiMoJo]

Gonna suck for identical twins too.

Re:Not want

[Altus]

Actually you have a limited time between unlocks until it requires a pin and with the new OS that this will ship with, tapping the power button a few times before your police encounter will disable all but a pin based unlock. Maybe not so useful for a no-knock raid but certainly something you could use at the border, or when you are pulled over.

Re:Not want

[Anonymous Coward]

During the demo, the face recognition didn't work the first time so the phone was unlocked using a PIN.

Re:Not want

[Altus]

But somehow slashdot has trouble thinking it through.

Re: Not want

[Anonymous Coward]

Police will just point it you to
Unlock? Is that a problem for you? Would that still be valid without court order? If you don't want to buy, just complain about the cost!

Re:Not want

[Just Some Guy]

...as opposed to mashing your thumb against it, which is infinitely more secure. Yep.

As implemented, iOS requires your password every so often even if you use {Touch,Face} ID normally. It also requires it after a power cycle or reset. If police have your phone for longer than a day or so - I forget the exact interval - it won't open without your PIN. iOS 11 (dropping next week) has the extra feature that rapidly pressing the side button immediately puts the device into "require a password" mode. If you find yourself in a position where you're going to be talking to police soon, lock the thing. You don't even have to be looking at the screen to do it.

Re:Not want

[Anonymous Coward]

Overrated

This place is getting so sour. Full of frustrated Redditers who can't get any sex with another person. Shame on you!

Re:Not want

[Paradise Pete]

But a phone that unlocks when it sees your face is one that the police can confiscate and unlock by simply aiming it at your face.

It's easy to quickly and discreetly disable it. You don't even have to take it out of your pocket. Once you do that it requires a passcode to unlock. And as a last resort, it won't unlock if you're not looking at it.

Re:Not want

[Paradise Pete]

I'm sorry, I don't really want a phone that starts up when it thinks it recognizes my face.

It doesn't. You have to be looking at it and you have to make a gesture. As for the "plain on" button, you can do that too.

Re:Not want

[Paradise Pete]

Buy the rumor and anticipation, sell the news. A Wall Street truism for a hundred years.

Re:Not want

[GrumpySteen]

If you can unlock it with both a PIN and your junk, it should really be named "pinprick security system"

Re:Not want

[Paradise Pete]

Print out mugshot, have some rando press it tightly against their face.

Also doesn't work. They even used molded masks in testing and training.

Re:Not want

[Paradise Pete]

For example, my beard length changes over several months

They addressed that in the presentation, using the specific example of going from clean shaven to starting to grow a beard, and it will learn and adapt. Also glasses, hat and scarf, etc. If it works as well as they claim it's damn impressive.

Re:Not want

[Alok]

There are lots of things that people shouldn't be doing, but do them anyway. The fact is that there will be people using the new iPhones while driving, whether you like it or not.

Personally, I sometimes use my phone (Android) for navigation, and ofc. if I haven't already started it beforehand then I need to unlock phone & setup nav while driving. Or I might call up someone and talk, which imho isn't so bad as long as I'm keeping eyes on the road - I use Ok Google to call up people instead of looking & dialing. I do try to wait for red signals if I need to look at the screen (e.g. it couldn't understand the name of the person to call).

Re:Not want

[dgatwood]

You should NOT be talking or texting on a phone if you are driving in the first place!!!

Who said anything about texting? "Hey, Siri, this song sucks. Play the next one."

Re:Not want

[sehlat]

I still don't want the cops or other criminals able to unlock my phone by aiming the screen at me.

Re:Not want

[exomondo]

I'm sure crumpled paper will line up exactly with the 30k dots it has remembering the exact depth of your face.

That doesn't make it sound like this is going to work particularly well when I'm wearing ski goggles or dirtbike gear. This new form over function could prove to be a very annoying direction for Apple to go.

Re:Not want

[dgatwood]

You can do that same thing with an iPhone X using "Hey Siri".

From the comment you're replying to:

So unless Apple convinces people to let Siri always listen (creepy), ...

Like I said.

Re:Not want

[Anonymous Coward]

"Don't look at this chicken."

Re: Not want

[Anonymous Coward]

Does making an Apple Pay payment with face id make you seem as if you are looking through a magnifying glass?

Re:Not want

[fatwilbur]

I think what's far worse about it will be the battery impact from operating the camera the entire time the phone is on, or even with some logic, a good percentage of the time.

Re: Not want

[mattventura]

It would presumably be like the current solution, where there's a limited time window after which it will only allow passcode unlock. There's also now the ability to mash the touch sensor 5 times to require a passcode. I'm curious as to how they'll do it with face recognition, but since it makes you look at the phone they could have some kind of secret duress point you can choose where if you look at that point on the screen, it would disable face entry.

Re:Not want

[Bender0x7D1]

Or a family member, significant other, or roommate who will unlock your phone while you sleep and/or are passed out.

Re:Not want

[jordanjay29]

Unless the police already know what they're going to find on your phone, like this guy's case. I mean, that can't be abused at all, right?

Re:Not want

[jordanjay29]

Border control agents can seize your device at the border (which is legally 100 miles from any international border) with probable cause (which is a pretty low barrier) and then lawyer or no lawyer they can do what they want with it. Best approach at the border is probably to have all your important information in the cloud, and then wipe your device before you go through.

Re:Not want

[jordanjay29]

I can't cross my eyes...

Re:Not want

[cfalcon]

There's no law that says you have to supply them with a fingerprint, either, but the moment that went before a judge it became "sure, if it is physically possible to force someone to do it, great, go ahead!"

You don't need laws with compliant judges.

Re:Not want

[Anonymous Coward]

They are well on their way to holding people in contempt for not providing a password too. That one at least is still being litigated.

Re:Not want

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't worry because the face recognition doesn't even work

Re:Not want

[yuriklastalov]

"Nobody cares about battery life, people want gimmicks!" - Apple, probably

Re:Not want

[fnj]

You mean it only has a 1 in a million chance of recognizing you? I doubt very much if that is what you meant to say. Presumably you mean 1 in a million false-negatives!

Re: Not want

[Anonymous Coward]

They said in the keynote that Touch ID accuracy was 1 in 50K and Face ID is 1 in one million.

I very much doubt they said that. A 'feature' that works for less than 350 Americans? That's going to sell!

Re:Not want

[just another AC]

You mean it only has a 1 in a million chance of recognizing you? I doubt very much if that is what you meant to say. Presumably you mean 1 in a million false-negatives!

I would say the false positives is the more important metric (and what they are talking about here).

Who cares if 1 in 50K (or 1M) logins don't work, try again!
Everyone cares if 1 in 50K (1M) people can touch (point at their face) and unlock your phone.

Re:Not want

[Gussington]

Down .42% for the day! Holy crap! Sell, sell, sell!

Indeed. Had you sold yesterday and bought Trig Tokens you'd be up 78% instead of down 0.42%. Stupid Apple....

Re:Not want

[Anonymous Coward]

EVERYBODY wants that convenience!!

Combined with the convenience that it has access read all the surveilance data it and others have gathered about you, so be unlock at a moments notice when recognizing the face of an officer of the law!

You will like what Apple tells you to like and if not, then they will force you to like it... If you buy something else, then the competition to Apple, will wonder why you are not buying Apple and change all their products so they have the same
convenience and the same limitations (no jack etc)... because WHY should YOU be robbed of the wonderfull decisions made by Apple, just because you are trying to send a signal by buying something from a competing company?

On the other hand, according to Apple.. they HAVE no competition... a lot of people buy in to that lie and help them to keep screwing everyone over again and again

Re:Not want

[thegarbz]

whereas Face ID is 1 in 1,000,000

That's a bold claim for an unreleased product.

Re:Not want

[Gussington]

I get the point you're making, but it's worth pointing out for others that it doesn't just unlock when it thinks it sees you. Rather, it waits for you to focus your attention on it first.

I sometimes use the blank black screen as a mirror to check for stray hair after I take my motorcycle helmet off, this means my phone will now turn on when I don't want it?

It's also worth mentioning that the false positive rate on Touch ID was 1 in 50,000

According to the salesperson right?
My daughter has an iPhone which I have a touch ID profile for. I've used her phone maybe 20 times in the last year and it's failed more than once, closer to once every 2 or 3 times I try to use it. This is a much higher fail rate than a tactile button which I push on my phone that seems to work at least 99 out of 100 times.

Re: Not want

[zaphirplane]

You need to tell the guy in jail for not handing over his pin ASAP ! ;)

Re: Not want

[zaphirplane]

And yet man in jail for refusing to reveal PIN
https://www.reddit.com/r/priva...

Re: Not want

[Anonymous Coward]

That's not gonna work for slitty eye Asians....

Re:Not want

[Stripe7]

I prefer 2 factor authentication to access my iPhone, something I have and something I know the keycode. Facial recognition adds something I have (my face) I would prefer to have both the key code and the facial recognition active. That way the only way to access the data on my phone is to have both my face and my pass code.

Re:Not want

[muecksteiner]

In all fairness, when I'm skiing, I also have to take off my gloves right now, to unlock my current iPhone 7. And any other phone out there, actually, as interacting with a phone does not work too well with skiing gloves on.

However, I am also quite skeptical about that FaceID feature. Especially the aspect that at least potentially, someone else can hold the phone in front of your face, to unlock it against your will. Not cool.

Re:Not want

[Waccoon]

I don't give a shit. What I care about is, if I don't like Face ID, do I have an alternative, or will I be forced to use it?

Re:Not want

[windwalkr]

According to the salesperson right?

Valid point.

My daughter has an iPhone which I have a touch ID profile for. I've used her phone maybe 20 times in the last year and it's failed more than once, closer to once every 2 or 3 times I try to use it. This is a much higher fail rate than a tactile button which I push on my phone that seems to work at least 99 out of 100 times.

Less valid. That would be a false negative. Still a usability concern, but not a security concern.

Re:Not want

[aquacrayfish]

...even if it seems weirdly different at first glance.

I see what you did there.

Re:Not want

[SuperKendall]

Unlike other companies, Apple does not send what you are saying up to a server until you invoke Hey Siri...

But lets get real. Millions are apparently fine installing an Echo which doesn't even make a pretense to such protections, without a care. 99.999999999999999999% of users will leave Siri on and the rest of you Grumpkins will have to sit there and scowl as technology passes you by.

Re:Not want

[Anubis IV]

No one is forcing you to use Touch ID now. It's always been optional. Plenty of people simply use a password while disabling the biometrics, and I'd expect that the same will be true here.

Re:Not want

[Fahrvergnuugen]

Apple addressed this.

If you click the sleep button five times, touch / face id is disabled and you have to enter a pin code to unlock the phone.

The problem is that you have to know this and remember to do it if you are being arrested or mugged.

Re:Not want

[Graydyn Young]

I really want to know where Apple is getting these false positive rates from. I've read reports from third-parties claiming that TouchID has a false positive rate as high as 1/200. Fingerprints, man. They aren't THAT unique.
And 1/1000000? First off, thats a suspiciously round number. Also, without a huge specificity for sensitivity trade-off, this just sounds way too good to be true. Kudos to Apple if I'm wrong.

Re:Not want

[DarthVain]

No more wrenches?

https://xkcd.com/538/

Then again, everything is fair game just not your face I suppose which is a small win I guess.

Re:Not want

[DarthVain]

For bonus points for men at least, make sure the reference is taken when *ahem* fully "engaged". Make them work for access if they really want it...

Re:Not want

[bondsbw]

Fail in what way? If it just didn't recognize your fingerprint, then that's a false negative. Which is a completely different issue and does not have the same impact to the security of the system.

Re:Not want

[Anonymous Coward]

1. You could just hold the iPhone upside down and it won't trigger FaceID. It took me all of three seconds to think of that possibility. If you put less effort into whining about trivially fixable problems for weird edge cases, your life would be better. Also, others wouldn't have to listen to your whinges.
2. What you describe is not a false positive. It's a false negative. If you cite a false negative when talking about a false positive, it seems reasonable to conclude you don't know what you're talking about. Even more so given that you blether on about tactile buttons, as though that's relevant to TouchID, which is implemented on both tactile and non-tactile buttons.

Re:Not want

[Anonymous Coward]

How about you just stop doing that stupidly dangerous stuff with your phone and defending your indefensible behaviour before you kill or injure someone, you selfish prick

Re:Not want

[shilly]

Um, saying "Hey Siri" to trigger Siri has been part of the functionality for years. And you're deciding it's creepy *now*? You've not been paying attention, and there's plenty of iOS users who disagree.

Re:Not want

[UnknowingFool]

Yes a claim made by the manufacturer of the product. You can believe it or not.

Re:Not want

[JohnFen]

I think the question was what the actual accuracy is, not what the claimed accuracy is.

Re:Not want

[UnknowingFool]

By forced to use it, only if you buy an iPhone X and turn it on. Otherwise entering in a code word or number is the default.

Re:Not want

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm sure you haven't, but all these other commentators are brainwashed by "Big Brother."
They want you to be guilty by implication because they're scared of the thought police and they feel like accusing you of being guilty will keep them safe.

Re:Not want

[thegarbz]

From a company famously not realising that people holding their phone would cause a massive signal drop, I'm going to go with not at this point. Maybe after a year of data gathering.

I'm waiting for the phone to turn out to be racist and sexist because of the all male design teams employed and the lack of testing outside of a small group of "in the know" employees at Apple.

Or maybe they've learnt, either way, new technology and a claim that isn't backed by published data, scepticism is the sensible way to address this.

Re: Not want

[leslie.satenstein]

Yes! yes! I want one. Just in case I forget my pin. Does it work if I need to shave, or add facial hair?

Re:Not want

[ai4px]

IF the phone turns on when you are checking for stray hairs, obviously you are holding it wrong.

Re:Not want

[UnknowingFool]

I'm waiting for the phone to turn out to be racist and sexist because of the all male design teams employed and the lack of testing outside of a small group of "in the know" employees at Apple.

That depends on the underlying technology. Apple claims that it isn't a camera based system but a 3D sensor system. As such it is less affected by skin color.

Re:Not want

[mdervin2001]

one way or another, you always have to work for "access"

Re:Not want

[dgatwood]

Like many other people, I've also had it turned off for years.

Re:Not want

[Anubis IV]

So, a few things:
1) Their demonstration suggests it relies on accelerometer readings to know when to activate the sensor, since they had to raise the device before it started looking for faces. You can probably also click the power button to activate it, but either way, it doesn't appear to be always-on.

2) From what we understand, it isn't using the camera to detect faces. Rather, it's using something more akin to the Kinect, since it's projecting 30,000 IR dots and then sensing them via a basic IR sensor to create a 3D mesh.

3) Even if raising it isn't necessary to trigger the sensors, if the accelerometer is telling it it's stationary, it can stay off 99.9% of the time and just do a quick IR pulse every fraction of a second to see if anything's moved. Likewise, if the proximity sensor is telling it it's in a pocket or pressed to your ear it can stay off 100% of the time.

4) Even if it is always-on (which, again, it doesn't appear to be), they're claiming it gets 2 hours better battery life than the iPhone 7, so they must have figured out some way to optimize things.

Re:Not want

[farble1670]

I thought it strange...
While the introduction was going on, the stock price dropped and still hasn't come back up even to what it started the day at...

Maybe it's because the FaceID demo failed on stage?

Re:Not want

[farble1670]

That doesn't make it sound like this is going to work particularly well when I'm wearing ski goggles or dirtbike gear. This new form over function could prove to be a very annoying direction for Apple to go.

Fingerprint sensors nor touchscreens work through gloves, which I assume you wear when skiing or riding your dirt bike. Google/Android has voice unlock, but I suppose to be useful for you it has to work over a revving 2 stroke engine and an aftermarket exhaust.

What exactly are you complaining about now?

Re: Not want

[farble1670]

How is that any different than the current t world where the police could compelled you to touch the finger print reader on your device?

It's about $500 different.

Re:Not want

[shilly]

But why mention it in this context? There's no link -- the opposite, it's old functionality

Re:Not want

[rpstrong]

You're mixing false positives with false negatives. Recognizing a stranger's print is a false positive; something that only happens once in 50,000 times (according to Apple). A failure to recognize a legitimate print is a false negative - inconvenient, but not a security issue.

Re:Not want

[exomondo]

That doesn't make it sound like this is going to work particularly well when I'm wearing ski goggles or dirtbike gear. This new form over function could prove to be a very annoying direction for Apple to go.

Fingerprint sensors nor touchscreens work through gloves, which I assume you wear when skiing or riding your dirt bike. Google/Android has voice unlock, but I suppose to be useful for you it has to work over a revving 2 stroke engine and an aftermarket exhaust.

What exactly are you complaining about now?

I don't think this is that complicated: I've always had to take off a glove because that was both the interaction method and biometric authentication, now would I need to take off a glove and goggles. I really wouldn't have thought I would have to explicitly point that out and that any reasonable person would be able to work that out on their own, but I guess I was wrong.

Re:Not want

[exomondo]

In all fairness, when I'm skiing, I also have to take off my gloves right now, to unlock my current iPhone 7. And any other phone out there, actually, as interacting with a phone does not work too well with skiing gloves on.

Yeah of course, but your finger is used as both the interaction mechanism and biometric authentication. It's not like you can just substitute taking off your glove for taking off your goggles...or who knows, maybe they're working on an eye-tracking interaction system, that could possibly work.

Re:Not want

[countach]

Shut your eyes or turn away, it won't work. Also you can click the power button 5 times and it disables face id.

Re:Not want

[dgatwood]

Because in previous models, you could trigger Siri eyes-free even with the hotword disabled, and that is no longer possible in the iPhone X. It's a feature regression.

Re:Not want

[farble1670]

I don't think this is that complicated

Adding to "using your phone while in full motocross regalia", here's a list of other use cases for which FaceID fails,

1. Eyeballs gouged out
2. Permanently cross-eyed
3. Shapeshifter
4. Decapitated
5. Elephant boy

We should be very concerned that Apple has lost touch with it's user base in not considering these. They are circling the drain I tell you.

Re:Not want

[Paradise Pete]

I still don't want the cops or other criminals able to unlock my phone by aiming the screen at me.

It's not just you, nobody does, not even Apple. That's exactly why they built in a way to quickly and discreetly disable it. You can even do it while it's still in your pocket.

Re: Not want

[elliott666]

If you close your eyes it won't unlock.

Re:Not want

[shilly]

Looking at your original comment, I think you meant something different by "unless" from what I'd understood, ie I took it to mean you were assuming novelty, whereas I now think you may have meant "unless Apple can convince a much larger proportion of people to use Hey Siri than has previously been the case (and it's a creepy feature)".

If that's the case, then I think your original arguments fall on three fronts:
- Not sure you have any data to judge how many users have Hey Siri disabled or enabled. I'd be impressed if you did
- It's not actually very creepy at all. See this article, for example: https://techcrunch.com/2015/09...
- A touch sensor on the back sounds like a more dangerous implementation for driving, not less. Fiddling around on the back of a phone is not a safe thing to do!

Re:Not want

[dgatwood]

- It's not actually very creepy at all. See this article, for example: https://techcrunch.com/2015/09... [techcrunch.com]

It isn't creepy to you. What you're failing to acknowledge is that different people react differently to always-listening tech. For me, personally, it's the first feature I disable when I get new hardware, and there's a certain percentage of users who feel the same way.

- Not sure you have any data to judge how many users have Hey Siri disabled or enabled. I'd be impressed if you did

Of course not, but that number also doesn't really matter, because the total number of units makes even a tiny percentage important. Each iPhone model year is likely to sell well over 200 million units. Even if only 1% of users disable always-listening Siri, that's still 2 million people with the feature disabled. And even if only 1% of those occasionally unlock it with their face while driving, that's still 20,000 people who are now looking at their phone who likely would not have looked at their phone in previous versions. And even if only one tenth of one percent of those people get into fatal car accidents as a result of doing so, that's still 20 fatal car accidents and roughly 22 people dead as a direct result of this unlock mechanism replacing the fingerprint unlock.

And I suspect that those numbers are conservative. You don't get to hide behind statistics when you're talking about such a large pool of users.

- A touch sensor on the back sounds like a more dangerous implementation for driving, not less. Fiddling around on the back of a phone is not a safe thing to do!

I'm in the rare position of regularly using both an iPhone (personal) and a Pixel (work). Because the touch sensor on the back of the Pixel is indented noticeably, it is every bit as easy to use as the one on the front of the iPhone. In fact, if anything, the one on the back of the Pixel might be a little *too* easy to use *accidentally* while picking up the device. The only meaningful difference is which finger you use (because your thumb doesn't typically touch the back of your phone).

Re:Not want

[exomondo]

Ok just to appease you precious Apple fanboys I guess I really do have to preface even the slightest criticism of a feature of an Apple product with this lest you completely lose your minds:

Yes I have an iPhone, yes I like it, yes in general I like Apple as a company, yes I think FaceID is a good idea, no I wouldn't consider switching to Android just because of the replacement of TouchID with FaceID, but - and I know this is difficult for people like you to understand - despite the fact that I generally like Apple and I do have an iPhone and plan to continue using iPhones, in my general use cases the replacement of TouchID with FaceID will be less convenient and so I hope that going forward they continue to offer TouchID rather than replace it with FaceID.

Dual Product Launch

[that this is not und]

Who in their right mind would now buy an iPhone 8 when it is obsoleted in the very same product announcement by the iPhone X?

Oh, I suppose people who can't afford an iPhone X will buy the iPhone 8, to show off with. Right? Right??

Re:Dual Product Launch

[wed128]

My mom would. A person who wants a reasonably new phone, doesn't want to show off, wants a couple of years worth of software updates, and doesn't want to spend $300 for the fancy display.

Re:Dual Product Launch

[Anonymous Coward]

PROBABLy people that want the newest without FaceID.

Re:Dual Product Launch

[BasilBrush]

Someone who wants a home button.

Re:Dual Product Launch

[Anonymous Coward]

I bought an iPhone 7 6 months ago instead of waiting for the iPhone 8 because I thought it would have facial recognition. I'm a little disappointed I didn't wait :/

Re:Dual Product Launch

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't think you understand the meaning of the word "obsolete".

Re: Dual Product Launch

[Anonymous Coward]

Why has the parent been modded 'Redundant'? There are only 12 other comments here, and it's the first expressing these ideas. It's not redundant.

What I'm really concerned about is what happened to the iPhone 9. Will there be one of these released next year?

Re:Dual Product Launch

[JohnFen]

I dunno, between the two the 8 looks like the more desirable phone to me.

Re:Dual Product Launch

[that this is not und]

Somebody who wants to cling to the home button for the maximum allowed time, since the 8 will be the last model with a home button.

Re:Dual Product Launch

[that this is not und]

So the iPhone 8 is now the mom-phone. The Apple gadget for people who want to buck the trends and be the new leading edge by not buying the leading edge. Very meta!

Re:Dual Product Launch

[Anonymous Coward]

The ONLY reason people buy iStuff is to show off. Get over it. That's the only 'value proposition' Apple has left. They have lagged in features for years now and now it's all 'OH LOOK SHINY NEW' as the lemmings flock to it.

Re:Dual Product Launch

[DaHat]

There is an simpler answer... Did you happen to miss the fact that the iPhone SE, 6s & 7 will still be available?

Why? Because not everyone wants/can afford the biggest and best... and for just $350 you can get a new iPhone, and for those with a little (or a lot) more money there is a product at more compatible price points.

They did much the same thing a decade ago which the iPod was the must have product and various staggered price points which started as low as $99 (I think).

Re:Dual Product Launch

[DontBeAMoran]

Between all models shown on the keynote slide, the iPhone SE is the only one that looks the size of a phone. All others are small tablets.

Re:Dual Product Launch

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm glad it came out, I'll pick up a nice iPhone 6s for about a hundred bucks now...

Re:Dual Product Launch

[DaHat]

Isn't disappointment something Apple tries to create during every announcement?

Sure you are fond of your current phone which you've had for a few months or even a year, and when you bought it, it was the best thing available... but now... that new one is so thin, performant, beautiful... and yours is just... meh. Clearly there is only one way to solve your new found disappointment... pre-orders open later this week.

Re:Dual Product Launch

[Dixie_Flatline]

My partner got an iPhone SE when her iPhone 6 died. It was cheaper and she likes the smaller form factor better. Not everyone cares to be cutting edge with absolutely everything.

Re:Dual Product Launch

[that this is not und]

In the world of 'fashion' the word "obsolete" means 'not the latest thing.'

The iPhone 8 became obsolete halfway through the presentation.

Re:Dual Product Launch

[Pascoea]

Who in their right mind would now buy an iPhone 8 when it is obsoleted in the very same product announcement by the iPhone X?

Isn't that part of the plan? Release an "entry level" device and a "high end" device that people can "aspire to"? Much in the same way they sell a V6 and V8 Dodge Charger... Or maybe they are just vying for a very niche market of hipsters that want to have the latest and greatest, but not miss out on the pangs of seeing someone with a better device?

Re: Dual Product Launch

[that this is not und]

The iPhone 9 will only be available for sale in the Apple Store on a designated cruise ship as it sails within the Bermuda Triangle.

It will be rare! Truly a classic!

There was no Windows 9 either. Apple "just did what Microsoft was doing."

Re: Dual Product Launch

[Cro Magnon]

The iPhone 9 will only be available for sale in the Apple Store on a designated cruise ship as it sails within the Bermuda Triangle.

It will be rare! Truly a classic!

There was no Windows 9 either. Apple "just did what Microsoft was doing."

I know I'm old, but in my day, Microsoft copied Apple.

Re:Dual Product Launch

[Kohath]

Someone who wants a phone instead of a slot on a waiting list.

Re:Dual Product Launch

[XxtraLarGe]

Who in their right mind would now buy an iPhone 8 when it is obsoleted in the very same product announcement by the iPhone X?

Oh, I suppose people who can't afford an iPhone X will buy the iPhone 8, to show off with. Right? Right??

Then there's people like me who can't wait until it's released because my phone is almost dead. My 6 Plus has "touch disease", so I need to get a new one soon. Also, I'm a bit disappointed that the only storage options for the 8 & X are 64 or 256 GB. I might even be inclined to get an iPhone 7 Plus, since I can get a 128 GB model for $769, instead of $799 for the 64 GB iPhone 8 Plus. The only thing you really lose is fast/wireless charging, which I don't really need.

Re:Dual Product Launch

[cayenne8]

My partner got an iPhone SE when her iPhone 6 died.

Business Partner?

Girlfriend?

Wife?

Friend with benefits...?

Enquiring minds want to know....

:)

But seriously...what's the deal with people not telling what their relationship is...."partner" says nothing.

Re:Dual Product Launch

[UnknowingFool]

That's as silly as saying: "So the Samsung S8 is now the mom-phone. The Samsung gadget for people who want to buck the trends and be the new leading edge by not buying the leading edge. Very meta!" You do understand that manufacturers make variations called "models and product lines" right?

Re:Dual Product Launch

[thegarbz]

Who in their right mind would now buy an iPhone 8 when it is obsoleted in the very same product announcement by the iPhone X?

I'll go with people who don't want a ridiculous looking phone that appears to have something stuck on the screen at the top looking like an ill fitting cheap Chinese phone cover for the wrong model of phone.

I was excited to see what they'll come up with for their edge to edge display. ... What a letdown.

Re:Dual Product Launch

[MachineShedFred]

How about all the people commenting on this article bitching about the "new features" of the iPhone X that don't exist on the iPhone 8?

Better CPU and GPU than the iPhone 7.

Re: Dual Product Launch

[MachineShedFred]

The same thing that happened to Windows 9.

Re: Dual Product Launch

[Anonymous Coward]

They jointly own a hot dog wagon in Philadelphia. When was that any of your business?

Re:Dual Product Launch

[Anonymous Coward]

what's the deal with people not telling what their relationship is...."partner" says nothing.

Maybe it's none of your business.

Re:Dual Product Launch

[Anonymous Coward]

Really? I'm on my fourth iPhone because I still find Android unbearably cumbersome to use.

Re:Dual Product Launch

[rthille]

I use "partner" or "spouse" sometimes, but really she's my "long-time, live-in girlfriend" I guess? What's a 1-word way to describe someone you're basically, but not legally married to? A friend described us as LAMPs (Living As Married People).

Re:Dual Product Launch

[Enigma2175]

my phone is almost dead. My 6 Plus has "touch disease", so I need to get a new one soon.

So your current Apple product is failing horribly, so you are considering getting a new Apple product? Why reward them for making a crappy phone that failed on you?

Re:Dual Product Launch

[Anonymous Coward]

Then why bring it up at all? "This dude I know" or "This chick I know" works fine.

Re:Dual Product Launch

[blindseer]

What's a 1-word way to describe someone you're basically, but not legally married to?

The word you are looking for is "spouse". Just because the government doesn't have a piece of paper with your names and signatures doesn't mean you aren't married. Marriages predate governments so "legally" has nothing to do with it. I'm also pretty sure that in most every part of the world the act of "living as married people" makes you legally married. What makes you think "spouse" does not apply here?

If "wife" bothers you then may I suggest "common law wife" to make the distinction? Not one word but it's not terribly complicated to say and most anyone knows what it means.

Re:Dual Product Launch

[XxtraLarGe]

So your current Apple product is failing horribly, so you are considering getting a new Apple product? Why reward them for making a crappy phone that failed on you?

I had it for 3 years, so that's not too bad. Plus, my wife has had 3 crappy Android phones over the same period, and the design flaw the 6 plus had was corrected in the next iteration.

Re: Dual Product Launch

[kvishalk]

I disagree. They didn't make a windows phone :-) I own one BTW.

Re:Dual Product Launch

[Anonymous Coward]

It says everything that a lot of people who use the term want it to mean - "The specifics of our relationship are none of your business". I really don't see why you care about the relationships between people you have never met, but as a rule of thumb, "partner" in this sense usually refers to "person with whom I co-habit and have a romantic involvement with but don't have a formal, legally recognized relationship". Therefore, Boy/girlfriend or Fiance(e). But you knew that already, didn't you.

Re:Dual Product Launch

[Dixie_Flatline]

She's my wife, technically, but neither of us really like that word—it comes with a lot of baggage. 'Partner' is more descriptive in the sense that we try to do things together, as equally and equitably as possible.

And, to be honest, there's something that we like about the ambiguity. You can't tell if I'm male or female or straight or queer. The word worked when we were just dating, and it still works now that we have a piece of paper from the government that tells people that our life decisions are legally binding. It's a good word for us. :)

Re:Dual Product Launch

[Dixie_Flatline]

I would (and did!) use 'partner' in this circumstance. The nice thing about the word is that it transcends your formal relationship status.

Re:Dual Product Launch

[Dixie_Flatline]

One other thing: I live in Quebec, and a word like 'partner' is actually pretty useful here. People here aren't super in to marriage (historical beef with the church; same reason why all the swear words are repurposed religious/church terms) so 'partner' is perfectly descriptive. I actually meet people with kids that describe themselves as 'boyfriend' and 'girlfriend' when they speak in English, which sort of underplays the extent of their relationship.

Re:Dual Product Launch

[JohnFen]

What's wrong with "partner"? It sounds much nicer than "significant other", and retains the benefit of being nonspecific.

OMG OMG! My ANUS is so WET and READY!!

[Anonymous Coward]

I want it now, PLUS size!!

So along with the new sensors

[H3lldr0p]

they brought back the headphone jack, right? Because they were able to jam so much other new things why not also find the room for something that caused much consternation last time around? It's only right to confirm their commitment to the consumer and are willing to admit they made an error in removing it, right?

Right?

Re:So along with the new sensors

[Anonymous Coward]

LOL apple admit an error without a class action lawsuit? Never.

Re:So along with the new sensors

[Anonymous Coward]

Dude, nobody cares about the headphone jack except slashdot whiners.

Re:So along with the new sensors

[wed128]

they're just not that brave.

Re:So along with the new sensors

[BasilBrush]

Your 1960s jack socket is never coming back.

Re:So along with the new sensors

[dreamchaser]

Dude, nobody cares about the headphone jack except slashdot whiners.

Or people who actually use their phones.

Re:So along with the new sensors

[MightyYar]

If I were the type to drop $1000 on this kind of toy, I definitely wouldn't sweat paying for a good set of Bluetooth headphones. But I'm more of a "bust out the soldering gun when the headphone plug goes wonky" kind of guy.

Re:So along with the new sensors

[DontBeAMoran]

The only three times I've seen Apple "admit" their mistakes:
- Rotary volume control on QuickTime player.
- The so-called "Puck" mouse.
- Lack of controls on third-generation iPod shuffle.

Re:So along with the new sensors

[DontBeAMoran]

Dude, nobody cares about wireless headphones except millennial crybabies.

Re:So along with the new sensors

[BronsCon]

If you think bluetooth headphones are an ideal solution to the lack of a headphone jack, you're also not a "watches videos" or "plays games where audio cues and timing matter" kind of guy.

Re:So along with the new sensors

[that this is not und]

I don't think I ever saw a 3.5mm phono jacket in the 1960s that was three-conductor stereo.

The 6 Transistor radio my grandpa listened to Twins games on while fishing out on the lake had a 3.5mm phono jack, but it was mono.

No, I think that 3.5mm stereo phone jacks were a 90's phenomenon. They came in with the Sony Walkman. I remember when they started selling headphones that didn't have the regular 1/4" stereo headphone jack, and bundled an adapter in the package 'for the rest of us.'

Re:So along with the new sensors

[JohnFen]

I definitely wouldn't sweat paying for a good set of Bluetooth headphones.

I have yet to see a set of Bluetooth headphones, at any price, that can adequately replace wired headphones for my use case. The battery doesn't last nearly long enough.

Re:So along with the new sensors

[Anonymous Coward]

Dude, nobody cares about the headphone jack except slashdot whiners.

Or people who want to use headphones.

Re:So along with the new sensors

[Anonymous Coward]

1960s? It's not from the 60s. It's from the 70s. The 1870s.

Re:So along with the new sensors

[Anonymous Coward]

Those people use Airpods or other bluetooth headphones or the bundled headphone adapter.

Re: So along with the new sensors

[laupark]

1980s walkmans (like 1982) had 3.5 stereo jacks. Youngsters...

Re:So along with the new sensors

[MightyYar]

I definitely watch videos and haven't noticed the lag. But you are right - not a gaming guy. Most of my Bluetooth headphone usage is podcasts and music while working in the yard or on house projects where the cord is in the way (or even dangerous).

Re:So along with the new sensors

[jwhyche]

I have yet to see a set of Bluetooth headphones, at any price, that can adequately replace wired headphones for my use case. The battery doesn't last nearly long enough

If you are only worried about battery life then you haven't been looking at the right headphones. My BTS Pro 66 have continuous playback rated at 40 hours.

Re:So along with the new sensors

[BasilBrush]

Yes, both 3.5 mm mono jacks and 1/4" stereo jacks existed in the 1960s.

And yes it was probably the Walkman that first combined the two into a 3.5mm stereo jack. But that was in 1979, not the 90s.

Re:So along with the new sensors

[Anonymous Coward]

Bluetooth (especially the excellent Airpods), lightning, and the bundled adapter handle the job fine for all but the slashdot whiners.

Re: So along with the new sensors

[that this is not und]

Yep. Screwed that one up. I remember the 'cool' chicks in the clubs wearing their Walkmans. With 'I Will Follow' by U2 playing on the PA between band sets, before any of us knew who U2 were. The 1980 club scene in Minneapolis.

Re:So along with the new sensors

[Anonymous Coward]

the new Mac Pro

Re:So along with the new sensors

[Anonymous Coward]

Those two properties sound like one and the same, NotGamingGuy.

I have to manually adjust my MPC's delay (in milliseconds) because the tiniest discrepancy in mouth flapping and audio will quickly trigger me.

Full disclosure, I used to play keyboard rhythm games so maybe I'm sensitive.

Fact remains, BT lags. I use a controller for emulators, but the delay makes anything action-genre feel retarded.

Re:So along with the new sensors

[JohnFen]

Well, OK, that's not the only thing. The other thing (besides sounding good) is that I want them to be earbuds.

Re:So along with the new sensors

[MightyYar]

The difference is that video can be delayed to match the BT delay, but video games cannot. My phone must do this for me, as I'm fairly sensitive to such things and haven't seen any lag.

Re:So along with the new sensors

[thegarbz]

Your 1960s jack socket is never coming back.

Actually it never left. Just one device stopped supporting it.

Re:So along with the new sensors

[Anonymous Coward]

My BTS Pro 66 have continuous playback rated at 40 hours.

And my $20 pair of wired headphones have continuous playback rated at "forever", plus the batteries never wear out because there aren't any.

Sorry, didn't mean to get all "facty" and "practical" on ya.

Re:So along with the new sensors

[Anonymous Coward]

Interesting. I use my phone all the time. And yet, I don't miss the headphone jack one bit.

I guess I'm not "people" ? Or I don't fit into your strict definition of "use" ?

Just because the product isn't suitable for you, doesn't mean that it isn't suitable for literally millions of other people. Get over it, snowflake.

Re:So along with the new sensors

[Paradise Pete]

"

you're also not a

"plays games where audio cues and timing matter" kind of guy.

I am. But not on my phone.

Re:So along with the new sensors

[MachineShedFred]

I guess I'm just wondering if they support the AptX codec yet, so it doesn't sound like trash on a cracker. OS X does, why the fuck doesn't iOS? I actually don't mind using Bluetooth audio with my Mac, because my headphones can decode AptX as well. I almost never use them with my phone unless I cable up.

Re:So along with the new sensors

[BasilBrush]

That's what they said when Mac stopped using floppy disks.

Re:So along with the new sensors

[Paradise Pete]

The other thing (besides sounding good) is that I want them to be earbuds.

The apple ear buds carry case also charges them. So if the five hours of straight battery life is not enough, 15 minutes in the case fully recharges them. Not perfect, of course, but not bad. My problem is they don't fit me.

Re:So along with the new sensors

[Paradise Pete]

Actually it never left. Just one device stopped supporting it.

Google as well will ditch the 3.5mm headphone jack and nobody seems to care

Re:So along with the new sensors

[BronsCon]

whoop-dee-doo?

Re:So along with the new sensors

[Paradise Pete]

ok, never mind. I was fooled by your sig.

Re:So along with the new sensors

[BronsCon]

Just trying to figure out the point of your comment. You can use bluetooth headphones with a gaming PC or, through an adapter or other means, with a console, si you not gaming on your phone really doesn't indicate whether or not you use bluetooth headphones.

From where I'm sitting, it seemed you weren't so much fostering the discussion mentioned in my sig as you were attempting (and failing) to be cute.

Re:So along with the new sensors

[Anonymous Coward]

their new n1ggerPhone is for n1ggers only. Just see how many n1ggers were there in the demo.

Re:So along with the new sensors

[mattack2]

Absolutely false. I'm a couple of decades older than that, and have been using cheapo Bluetooth earbuds for a couple of years now. They can be had for under $20.

Re:So along with the new sensors

[MightyYar]

I'm almost never in an environment with headphones where I'd be able to hear AAC artifacts. I'm not sure I'd be able to hear any under any conditions, when it comes down to it. If all you get is SBC, then yeah, I think most people should be able to hear that.

Re: So along with the new sensors

[that this is not und]

I have the Windows 98 install set on floppy diskettes. When I bought Windows 98, it was on an installer CD but in the book that came with it there was a coupon to order an installer set of 3-1/2" diskettes. It was only $10 so I said what the heck ond ordered it. It's about 60 diskettes. And Microsoft Fulfillment screwed up and sent two sets. When I bought Windows NT 3.51 the only version they had in the store was the diskette installer, and I was able to order the CD installer for about $10.

People who have never installed an OS (Slackware is another OS often distributed this way back in the day) or a game from a whole ton of diskettes has not experienced the whole PC thing. I once had a Windows 95 disk set with a defective disk 17. You don't find such a defect until you are 17 disk changes into the (now aborted) install.

Re:So along with the new sensors

[cfalcon]

> Your 1960s jack socket is never coming back.

Meanwhile in the rest of the universe, it never even left.

Also it made a return on the new Macbook Pro.

Re:So along with the new sensors

[cfalcon]

> That's what they said when Mac stopped using floppy disks.

No, it's not what ANYONE said then. What they said then was something along the lines of "that's too soon". And they were CORRECT- plenty of iMac purchasers bought an external floppy drive to transfer data to and from, and used it for the life of that computer. No one seriously believed that the 1.44 Megabyte floppy, a reasonable and useful amount of storage in 1987, with hard drives under one hundred megabytes, was "the future" or "would never go away" ten years later, with hard drives in the gigabytes.

Here's the types of things they were saying:

Summary: "It's a publicity stunt to sell more expensive media solutions"
http://www.osnews.com/story/18...

Summary: "People who need floppies will buy USB floppies, networked machines won't care so much, and that's a big part of their target market"
http://articles.latimes.com/19...

Nobody ways saying "Great, but the floppy is so perfect that everyone will use it forever". But you can absolutely make that case for the headphone jack, which doesn't appear to be going away at all. It's just something you can't get on a new iPhone, which is a shame, but it's not new for Apple to ignore a standard for profit.

Re:So along with the new sensors

[cfalcon]

Apple III, Newton, eMate...

Re:So along with the new sensors

[DontBeAMoran]

We'll have to wait to see the replacement before we know if they really learned from their mistake on that one.

Re:So along with the new sensors

[BasilBrush]

Of course you can say it for the jack socket. And it is going away. The concept of a wire going to your ears is as quaint as a floppy disk. People are moving to wireless headphones/buds.

Re:So along with the new sensors

[BasilBrush]

It never left the Macbook Pro.

Re:So along with the new sensors

[Anonymous Coward]

I've had an iPhone 7 for nearly a year. I can count on three fingers the times I had to forgo listening to audio through headphones because I had to charge my phone. Really, waiting 30 minutes until the phone is charged sufficiently so you can listen to music for a few hours is really not a big inconvenience. I would prefer to have the headphone jack, but like I said, there had been only a few times when it became an issue, and it is a small issue.

Re:So along with the new sensors

[pastafazou]

rated at "forever" until the wire wears out, which is typically less than two years. And yes, the batteries never wear out, because they draw their power from the phone's battery. So yeah, technically, your headphones can keep pumping out music long after your phone runs out of juice...

Re:So along with the new sensors

[Anonymous Coward]

Well FWIW. I bought a iPhone SE (which has the headphone jack), instead of a 6S, 7, etc. This was the deciding factor in my decision. I can go another year and the phone will only be 2 yrs old. I was hoping that I either get better headphone choices or they license the protocol so I can buy a 3rd party adaption to make my headphones of choice wireless compatible.

It's probably being overly picky but I'm not ready to give up the HP jack. Enough so I might even consider moving to Android when it's time to get that next phone... Last time I played with BT headphones I was less than impressed. Especially with the significant amount of cut out and interference at my office.

Nobody cares... right right. I used to be on the upgrade bandwagon for everything and suddenly I've stopped cold and I'm delaying a year or two on everything.

Re:So along with the new sensors

[Anonymous Coward]

The depths of apple greed is amazing. They are ways look for new wants to screw over the entire industry.

Re:So along with the new sensors

[thegarbz]

People stopped using floppy disks long before the Mac stopped providing them.

On the other hand even Apple themselves will still happily sell you multiple product lines of overpriced garbage headphones with no wireless functionality.

Re:So along with the new sensors

[thegarbz]

No one cared when HTC did it either, mainly because the Google Pixel has very limited sales numbers vs the other majors.

Re:So along with the new sensors

[thegarbz]

I have yet to see a set of Bluetooth headphones, at any price, that can adequately replace wired headphones for my use case. The battery doesn't last nearly long enough.

As a matter of interest what is "long enough"?

I flew from Brisbane, Australia to London without charging my Bose QC35s once during the trip and having them on 100% for the duration of the flight watching an endless string of movies the entire way and I arrived in London with 30% battery remaining after >20 hours of use.

Not that I like wireless for many other reasons, it's good for being in transit and not much else, but what use case do you have that regularly keeps you away from a standard USB charging point long enough that 20+ continuous hours of listening is not nearly good enough?

Re:So along with the new sensors

[Gussington]

I have yet to see a set of Bluetooth headphones, at any price, that can adequately replace wired headphones for my use case. The battery doesn't last nearly long enough.

I recently bought some Siberia 840's for gaming, one of the best bluetooth headsets you can get ($330USD). I didn't like them and went back to my $50 Logitech G430's (wired).
I also have a pair of $400 Bose Noise cancelling headphones (wired) for the same reason. Bluetooth headphones are crap.

Re:So along with the new sensors

[BasilBrush]

Try going to the Apple Store web site. All headphones and speakers are Bluetooth or Wireless.

Looks like you're behind the times.

Re:So along with the new sensors

[BlackPignouf]

My cheap chinese headphones have continuous playback rated at +infinity hours.

Re:So along with the new sensors

[KozmoStevnNaut]

Dude, if the wires on your headphones wear out in 2 years, you're severely mistreating them.

Re:So along with the new sensors

[thegarbz]

Try going to the Apple Store web site. All headphones and speakers are Bluetooth or Wireless.

Looks like you're behind the times.

Yeah because online stores show all products a company makes and doesn't just cherry pick to produce a result. So aside from the fact that Apple doesn't list the following Apple produced products on their store:

- Beats Studio EP - 4 models
- Beats Pro
- Beats urBeats3 - 4 models

You also happen to be completely blind as the Apple store also offers the following 3.5mm headphones:

- Beats urBeats 3 - 4 models
- Beats Studio EP - 2 model
- EarPods with 3.5mm connector
- Apple In-Ear headset with 3.5mm connector
- Bose QC20

Looks like you're behind the times.

The American Foundation for the Blind has some good screen reading software for you so you don't make the same mistake next time.

Re:So along with the new sensors

[Anonymous Coward]

Got a bluetooth headset that is plug in as soon as I get to the office. I never use my headphone jack. A wire would get in the way on the rowing machine.

Re:So along with the new sensors

[Anonymous Coward]

The battery on my samsung headset lasts 8 hours. I wear it on the way to work (1 hour), on the way home (1 hour) and at the gym (2 hours). Maybe one or two hours extra if i go some where. So that's a max of around 6 hours a day. I charge the headset when I'm at work. The battery has never run out on me. Unless you go all day with headphone on I doubt your use case would use up the battery in a day.

Re:So along with the new sensors

[Anonymous Coward]

Dude, nobody cares about the headphone jack except slashdot whiners.

I care. I use it. That is why my iphone 5 was the last iPhone I owned, and I now own a Samsung (Not the burning kind). I might have gone iPhone 7 except for two factors. The first was that apple dropped the headphone jack, and created yet another connector so none of my chargers worked anymore. This made it easy for me to not care about the plethora of accessories that would no longer work when I moved to android. I also discovered that Samsung has an awesome tool that strip mined my iPhone for all of my personal data and moved it over to the new phone. This worked flawlessly.

With those two reasons in mind I could no longer justify purchasing an apple phone vs the less expensive alternatives. Given that Apple has already demonstrated a willingness to render all of my existing accessories worthless (which adds $200+ to the pricetag), I am unlikely to ever go back.

Re:So along with the new sensors

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, some of us have iPhones with headphone jacks in them and have already switched to Bluetooth headphones. Stop trying to create issues where none actually exist.

Re:So along with the new sensors

[JohnFen]

I want 8-10 hours on a charge. Even then, though, charging things is an irritation I could do without -- but would settle for it if necessary (for now, it's not necessary -- I can still get phones that have a headphone jack, so I'm good).

I also neglected to mention the other necessity that your recommendation, as well as those of other people who brought up bluetooth headsets with long battery life, doesn't meet: I want earbuds. Over-the ear headphones drive me nuts unless I'm listening in a private place, alone.

Re:So along with the new sensors

[thegarbz]

I want earbuds.

Then next time don't say headphones.

Re:So along with the new sensors

[pastafazou]

Mistreating them? Or maybe it's because the way headphone jacks are connected to the wire results in an exposed weak point that gets repeatedly stressed when your phone is in your pocket. And if you happen to live an active lifestyle, it results in the wire getting worn out in less than two years. Sorry you're a lazy fatass who doesn't have this issue...

Re:So along with the new sensors

[Anonymous Coward]

40 hours isn't log enough when you are traveling across the country on bicycle. We have to fight for space to plug into a USB charging port to charge my phone, good luck getting a second one to charge my headphones

Re:So along with the new sensors

[JohnFen]

In my area "headphones" is a general term for all devices that you wear and that play sounds into your ears. Forgive me for having a different dialect than you.

Once I realized that people were thinking I meant over-the-ear headphones, I corrected my statement. Twice.

Re:So along with the new sensors

[farble1670]

If you think bluetooth headphones are an ideal solution to the lack of a headphone jack, you're also not a "watches videos" or "plays games where audio cues and timing matter" kind of guy.

I've used BT headphones exclusively for years and years and I watch videos including Youtube, movies, Netflix etc and have zero issues. I have never, not once, noticed any lag or sync issues.

As for games, I'm guessing that's not an issue either but then again I do not rely on audio cues to excel in Candy Crush and Barbie Makeover Extreme Edition.

Re:So along with the new sensors

[farble1670]

No one cared when HTC did it either, mainly because the Google Pixel has very limited sales numbers vs the other majors.

Sorry, what? The Pixels have headphone jacks. Some HTC models do not, but the Pixels do.

Re:So along with the new sensors

[jwhyche]

Having a active lifestyle is one of the reasons I went wireless. I've seen a number of wired headphones get grabbed by various parts of gym equipment and bicycles to think about it. Of course this never happened to me because I kept my cord well managed but I just got rid of the cord and it became one less thing to worry about.

Re:So along with the new sensors

[BronsCon]

As was pointed out elsewhere in this thread, video can be (and usually is) delayed to match the buffer delay of the headphones being used -- assuming they report it (I used to have a cheap pair that did not, this was a problem). That's not really possible with anything interactive, though so, yes, it is an issue when you hear the gunshot a second after your head's been blown off.

Re:So along with the new sensors

[BasilBrush]

Nope, the online Apple Store doesn't offer any of those. Or any other wired headphones.

You may be browsing it in a different and more backwards country than I am.

Re:So along with the new sensors

[suutar]

or cussed while shelling out for a lightning splitter so they could both charge and use the adapter at the same time like you could do before with two less dongles.

Re:So along with the new sensors

[farble1670]

Seems pretty unlikely that every interactive app I use that makes sounds it coding for bluetooth delays. Anyway.

though so, yes, it is an issue when you hear the gunshot a second after your head's been blown off

You know that bullets exceed the speed of sound by a factor of 2 or more right?

Re:So along with the new sensors

[BronsCon]

Seems pretty unlikely that every interactive app I use that makes sounds it coding for bluetooth delays. Anyway.

You're right, especially since many of those sounds are going to be in response to your own actions and the app has no way of queuing the sound before you perform the action it is associated with.

You know that bullets exceed the speed of sound by a factor of 2 or more right?

Indeed I do. I also know that most games don't take that into account. That said, I should have said "bullet impact"; my point is made saliently clear by the same 1-2sec delay affecting my own shots. That is, of course, why I don't use bluetooth headphones while gaming.

You have the send buffer in the phone's bluetooth controller, the receive buffer in the headphone bluetooth controller, plus audio buffers on each end, all contributing to lag. It is physically not possibly to have no lag with bluetooth headphones. Some have less lag than others by way of smaller buffers; those tend to drop out at shorter distances or with minimal levels of interference, as that's precisely what the buffers are there for, but there will always be lag. The best I've seen (without constant droputs, that is) is my LG Tone Pro, which I've been able to get down to 250ms, which is 1/4 of a second, 7-15 video frames (depending on framerate), or 15 frames of whatever game I'm playing. Playing a shooter, I'm already dead by the time I hear footsteps with that amount of lag. I used to have a cheap earpiece that had no perceivable lag, but it only supported voice CODECs and had shit quality for anything else; it also dropped out if a caterpillar on the other side of the globe sneezed because it had no audio buffer.

And yes, there are shooters for phones. I haven't played any in a while since my buddy I used to play with went all-bluetooth and no longer plays them due to precisely this issue; he didn't feel like replacing his last good pair of wired headphones when they broke. We play on larger screens now, anyway.

Re:So along with the new sensors

[Paradise Pete]

The whole thread was around the missing headphone jack on the iPhone. Even in your own post.

Re:So along with the new sensors

[thegarbz]

Nope, the online Apple Store doesn't offer any of those. Or any other wired headphones.

Ahh yes I forgot. Apple screws only US customers first.

You may be browsing it in a different and more backwards country than I am.

That's my line.

Re:So along with the new sensors

[thegarbz]

No one cared when HTC did it either, mainly because the Google Pixel has very limited sales numbers vs the other majors.

Sorry, what? The Pixels have headphone jacks. Some HTC models do not, but the Pixels do.

I didn't bother verifying whether it did or didn't (see GP's post). Just pointing out that when a small vendor removes something it doesn't cause as many complaints as when the single most popular phone model does the same.

Re:So along with the new sensors

[KozmoStevnNaut]

So suddenly taking a modicum of care for the things I buy makes me a "lazy fatass"? If your "active lifestyle" entails needlessly destroying the objects you own, maybe you should reconsider it.

Or maybe you're doing rock climbing and shit, I dunno.

Re:So along with the new sensors

[apoc.famine]

I'm not worried about battery life - what I need are headphones that work during the infrequent times I need them.
 
I use headphones probably once every two months. For that sort of use, I've got a decent pair of noise-canceling earbuds stowed away in my bag at all times. When I need them, out they come, they get used, and then back into the bag for another month or two.
 
That sort of use isn't really conducive for wireless headphones, as there's a very good chance that they will have limited to no battery remaining after a few months of storage. And no, I'm not inclined to add an extra chore of trying to remember to recharge them every couple of weeks to ensure they have a charge when I need them. And if they're sitting in the charger, they're not in my bag when I need them.
 
I don't want one more thing that I have to manage and keep track of in my life. The added complexity does not make anything better for me.

Re:So along with the new sensors

[BronsCon]

And so it didn't dawn on you that maybe bringing up that you game on a device other than your iPhone wouldn't be relevant?

Underwhelmed. I was expecting something more.

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm pretty underwhelmed by this. Most of these improvements seem to be incremental at most. Some of them, like the facial recognition, I don't even want. The emoji stuff is a pointless novelty at best. Android phones have had no home button for a long time.

If I were to get one of these phones, I don't think my life would change in any meaningful way.

This is very different from the first iPhone, or even the first iPad, which truly did make a difference in how I do my work and how I do about my day-to-day life. I could immediately think of many new possibilities when I first saw those products.

But this iPhone X? It seems like more of the same. It won't change my life. I wanted revolutionary improvements, but instead I got minor improvements.

Re:Underwhelmed. I was expecting something more.

[rogoshen1]

how the fuck can a phone change your life -- let alone be revolutionary (okay, the very first cell phone was revolutionary, and maaaaybe the first smart phone) but come the fuck on guy... it's a phone.

Sure constantly being connected is great, as is access to the instant gratification with your social networking likes or whatnots .. thus letting you deal with the existential crisis of being so shallow you cannot even get lost in your own thoughts; But at the end of the day, it's a fucking phone.

a $1000 dollar phone.

Re:Underwhelmed. I was expecting something more.

[chipschap]

I can buy a decent laptop AND a decent tablet for about the cost of that iPhone X.

Oh, right, but that won't give me hipster status.

Re:Underwhelmed. I was expecting something more.

[Anonymous Coward]

I will gladly pay you Tuesday for an iPhone today.

Re:Underwhelmed. I was expecting something more.

[dreamchaser]

If you are looking for a phone to change your life in a meaningful way then you need serious psychological help.

Re:Underwhelmed. I was expecting something more.

[MightyYar]

how the fuck can a phone change your life

My shits are now longer and more enjoyable.

Re:Underwhelmed. I was expecting something more.

[rogoshen1]

Hi Yar,

This is your boss, please come see me in my office -- we need to talk.

Re:Underwhelmed. I was expecting something more.

[DontBeAMoran]

First you get a revolution. After that it's incremental improvements.

If you ask me, the next revolution is going to be a glasses-style device to view AR in a more natural way instead of viewing AR in a tiny little window that you need to hold in front of you (i.e. your phone).

Funny thing is, Microsoft has been working on that for a few years already.

Re:Underwhelmed. I was expecting something more.

[MightyYar]

Boss, it's creepy when you talk to me from the next stall. I'm trying to play Spaceward Ho!

Re:Underwhelmed. I was expecting something more.

[sexconker]

I mean, where else can you get Free Trade Pixels?

Re:Underwhelmed. I was expecting something more.

[suutar]

No, at the end of the day it's a portable wireless web browser that includes skype. Being able to look up stuff on the net on a whim without having to find and boot a computer made a fairly substantial difference in my life. YMMV.

Re:Underwhelmed. I was expecting something more.

[Tough Love]

If you are looking for a phone to change your life in a meaningful way then you need serious psychological help.

Is there an app for that?

Re:Underwhelmed. I was expecting something more.

[Anonymous Coward]

Like Google Glass?

Re:Underwhelmed. I was expecting something more.

[Falos]

Could you guys keep it down, I can't enjoy Fisherman's Wife III in here.

Re:Underwhelmed. I was expecting something more.

[demonlapin]

I hate browsing on my phone, and I don't use any of the major social media apps, but having constantly-updated maps + traffic-aware GPS, the ability to stream music, podcasts, etc. in the car on long trips, the abiliy to set up WiFi hotspot anywhere I have a cell connection, and being available whenever I'm overseas... those are great. Compared to early 2000s, yeah, it makes life much better. Compared to early 1990s, it's not even the same thing. I never get ripped off by taxis, because I show them my destination in Google Maps. They know I'm watching. I can use city buses, because the routes and schedules are programmed in (you were going to pay to travel anyway, this way you get free sightseeing with it). I get rerouted around traffic jams automatically.

Re: Underwhelmed. I was expecting something more.

[that this is not und]

I remember when city busses were more of a mystery. Yes, there were central locations downtown where you could look at a map that showed the whole bus network, but you were seldom at such a spot. Bus schedules were small paper foldouts with a street diagram of the busses route, at certain points indicating where another bus route crossed them. Knowing what bus to take (the 6a, the 6c, or maybe the 6e) which all had slightly (or greatlt) different starting and terminal points was a challenge.

The printed bus schedules were often uncommon. They only put so many of them out in the little racks at the bus shelters and often there were none. Obtaining a printed schedule for a route you didn't know opened new opportunities for travel in the city.

Re:Underwhelmed. I was expecting something more.

[blindseer]

You've got that right. My iPhone is more than just a phone. In fact I rarely even use it as such. I even call it "my pocket computer" when referencing it in conversation and I can't recall anyone being confused by this.

I say I rarely use it as a phone but it's not like I don't communicate with people using it. I just rarely make phone calls. I regularly use e-mail and instant messaging with it.

I think back to when I saw "Serial Experiments Lain", which came out 20 years ago, where the characters in the series had these communication devices called a "NAVI". I guess that's an acronym (Network Attached Virtual Interface?) or shorthand for something (an internet navigator?). What they predicted then as a "high tech" communication device looks rather silly by comparison.

These pocket computers are rather life changing. People don't get lost like they used to, they can just use their "phone" to navigate. With built-in cameras these things have documented all kinds of events that would have been plausibly denied before. (There's good and bad with that, I know.)

These things are pretty amazing. It's difficult to imagine life without them any more.

Re:Underwhelmed. I was expecting something more.

[AC-x]

Is there an app for that?

Yes

Re:Underwhelmed. I was expecting something more.

[Glarimore]

Oh, right, but that won't give me hipster status.

Yeah, who wants "hipster status", when you can be an elitist, techy edge-lord?

While everyone on Slashdot keeps droning on about the stupid normies with their "instant gratification", "hipster status", and "being so shallow you cannot even get lost in your own thoughts" (and all based on phone preference, no less!), Apple will keep on making expensive products that people like and are willing to pay for.

You guys seem to believe you're so superior to the people you're shitting on, but here you are wasting your time writing drivel on Slashdot that none of the people you are criticizing are every going to read. Get a fucking life.

Sincerely, A non-Apple user tired of being represented by complete douche-nozzles

Re:Underwhelmed. I was expecting something more.

[rogoshen1]

Fair enough.. Though my comments were directed more towards the notion that a new phone would have the potential to be a life changing event. Android, Apple, whatever.. it's still just a phone.

Cancer going into remission, getting a heart transplant, birth of a child.. these are life changing things, not a silly little cell phone.

But you're absolutely right - it is very easy to be overly critical in an online forum where there's zero repercussions for mouthing off. :)

Re:Underwhelmed. I was expecting something more.

[JohnFen]

I doubt that's happening anytime soon. The irrational hatred for Google Glass has made that an untouchable for the consumer space, at least for a few more years.

Re:Underwhelmed. I was expecting something more.

[Anonymous Coward]

$1000 is too much for a phone. You can do pretty much the same stuff on Xiaomi phone for $150.

Here's how my phone changed my life:

Today I was running late for work and forgot to put my wallet in my bag. No problem. I used the "Get Cash" option in my banking app to withdraw cash without a card. If that was not available I would have gone hungry or have to scrounge off my colleagues.

I get instant alerts on my phone if anyone uses my bank card. With revolut I can even disable my bank card when I don't want to use it. This helps prevent fraud

When I am diagnosing problems on a network I can use Fing. This saves me having to lug a laptop around and wait for it to start up etc

With Google Assistant I can easily find opening hours of shops

I can find which stores have the product I want in stock without having to call around or visit a bunch of stores

Using the micoach training app I was able to cut 10 minutes of my 10k time

I can manage my spending and banking any time i want and pay my friends instantly or recieve payments.

I never get lost, thanks to GPS

So yeah, I have benefited from having a phone, but I don't spend my whole day glued to it like most people.

Re:Underwhelmed. I was expecting something more.

[chipschap]

I don't particularly agree with your approach but I give you full credit for not posting as an AC.

Re:Underwhelmed. I was expecting something more.

[SciCom Luke]

And you do not have money left for all those pumpkin spice non-fat quintuple bacon mocchaccreamiolattos you need to confirm your hipster status.

FaceID

[SchrodingersCT]

FaceID seems like a change just for changes sake, and I'm skeptical about their claims about it being more secure.

Re:FaceID

[that this is not und]

FaceID is a change because they couldn't figure out where to put a fingerprint scanner after removing the home button.

There were rumors of putting the fingerprint scanner on the back, and even 'prototypes' that emerged with a suspicious opening in the case back where a fingerprint scanner would go. But that's something some Android phones had already done, so it wouldn't be new and innovative, even if it's practical.

Re:FaceID

[Tough Love]

Does iphone still have that electrocution issue?

Re:FaceID

[SchrodingersCT]

That's not a iPhone issue, that's a moron using extension cord in your bed issue.

Re:FaceID

[Tough Love]

That's not a iPhone issue, that's a moron using extension cord in your bed issue.

You're right, maybe it says more about the kind of person who owns an iphone.

Re:FaceID

[R3d M3rcury]

Yeah. I enjoyed the "1 in 1,000,000" comment. "Of course, family members might be a close enough. So if you have an evil twin... (cue laughter)"

ONCE AGAIN APPLE INNOVATES! NEXT COME THE COPIERS

[Anonymous Coward]

Apple leads and the rest will follow!

TRUMP powa!

It's official

[JohnFen]

The smartphone market is officially mature, as indicated by the fact that even Apple can't come up with anything other than incremental improvements and gimmicks.

Re: It's official

[Anonymous Coward]

All this stuff was already available on the Samsung S8, which also has support for sd cards and gps unlock.

Re:It's official

[enjar]

but ... SUPER RETINA DISPLAY. It's SUPER. So SUPER you will rush out and buy one. Hopefully.

Re:It's official

[Tough Love]

The smartphone market is officially mature...

Actually, no. We've just gotten to where things get interesting... Android/Linux passes Microsoft on the internet and just keeps going. Apple a distant third in that race.

Re: It's official

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, it was already available on the S7 edge or S7 Note, about 2 years ago. On top, they also got a better low-light camera, and fast charging. But as a downside, they got Android :(

Re: It's official

[DontBeAMoran]

Samsung S8 has animojis?

Re:It's official

[Tough Love]

The smartphone market is officially mature, as indicated by the fact that even Apple can't come up with anything other than incremental improvements and gimmicks.

Even Apple? Didn't you mean only Apple?

Re:It's official

[DontBeAMoran]

What's funny is during the keynote they listed the resolution for landscape while showing the iPhone in portrait orientation.

Re:It's official

[JohnFen]

Then where are these interesting new smartphones?

Re:It's official

[Tough Love]

Then where are these interesting new smartphones?

Interesting new uses of smartphones. I find myself connecting a Bluetooth keyboard more frequently, for one thing. There really isn't much standing in the way of moving nearly all productivity work onto the phone. I suppose multi-window will make a comeback.

Re: It's official

[SuperKendall]

Samsung S8 has depth effect selfies?

Re:It's official

[JohnFen]

New uses don't count, since even old devices can be put to new uses. I'm talking about the phones themselves. Besides, using a Bluetooth keyboard isn't remotely new -- I've been doing that for years.

Re:It's official

[Tough Love]

using a Bluetooth keyboard isn't remotely new -- I've been doing that for years.

Don't know about you, but I've been doing it more often. Also, doing a lot of tethering. Speaking of which, it would be nice if SSH over wifi/bluetooth was a first-class thing on Android. It's hardly rocket science.

Re: It's official

[torkus]

Samsung S8 has depth effect selfies?

No and neither does Apple.

However the Note 8 DOES have dual BACK camera with faux-bokeh (i.e. 'professional portraits' or depth effect) for the same as Apple.

None of them have dual front cameras for this...and TBH you could do it entirely in software anyway.

Re:It's official

[thegarbz]

even Apple can't come up with anything

So ... 2014 then?

Re: It's official

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh sorry, all the useful features.

Re: It's official

[Anonymous Coward]

Samsung S8 has animojis?

No, which makes it a better phone in my opinion.

Re:It's official

[JohnFen]

Speaking of which, it would be nice if SSH over wifi/bluetooth was a first-class thing on Android.

True. But it's pretty easy to install an app for that.

Re:It's official

[Tough Love]

Well, of course what I really want is to run android apps remotely, with the display in a window on a normal desktop. That's a bit deeper than an app, but still not rocket science.

Re: It's official

[DontBeAMoran]

That's a better description.

Re: It's official

[wagnerer]

The iPhone X does have dual front cameras. One is just for IR designed to read the grid projected by the ir dot projector. You get real time depth map of the selfie from that which is probably better than anything you could get from dual cameras placed that close.

Re: It's official

[mjwx]

Samsung S8 has animojis?

Facebook has had them for years. I for one, hope this horrible thing remains a Iphone exclusive for years to come... if not forever.

Re:It's official

[mjwx]

What's funny is during the keynote they listed the resolution for landscape while showing the iPhone in portrait orientation.

You seem to be under the impression that an Apple keynote is about passing on useful information and accurate specifications. Please report to your nearest Steve Jobs Memorial iReducation centre.

An Apple keynote is about giving fanboys wank material whilst ignoring that someone else had invented it first.

Re: It's official

[rat_herder]

Facebook has had 3d characters that animate in sync with your face in real time? I hadn't heard about this

Re: It's official

[rat_herder]

I don't think the S8 has a working face unlock system. Or the computational photography stuff the iPhone is spruiking. Or a secure OS. Or a decent UI....

Re:It's official

[Anonymous Coward]

Not sure how that has any correlation with what was said.

Waitin for it to be unable to unlock for somebody

[Anonymous Coward]

This is stupid, what happens if the face detection does not work? What happens if you get injured or even a new haircut? What if you have a dark complexion or get a tan? This is the smarted form of stupid yet from Apple, a company more and more out of touch with its customers.

Oh Look

[mattwrock]

All the things Samsung has had for awhile. My wife has been using that feature for months. I think I remember Apple fanboys dismissing the edge to edge display. But since it's Apple, it's cool now. I honestly don't mind companies adding features from their competitors, but it's the "Since it's Apple, it's awesome!" attitude. Apple is temporarily on par with Samsung.

Re: Oh Look

[Anonymous Coward]

Your Samsung phone must be a transitive pile of shit then, based on the comments here so far.

Re: Oh Look

[denisbergeron]

Samsung, lg, asus, name it, every android phone the last 2 years?

Re: Oh Look

[Anonymous Coward]

I strongly prefer Samsung's display.

This seems to be competing more against mid-high end Android products now, rather than high end.

The sad thing is that news sites like Engadget have such a serious hard-on for Apple they've posted 20 news posts overnight on this crap, so Apple shares might still go up still.

Re:Oh Look

[Joce640k]

it's the "Since it's Apple, it's awesome!" attitude.

I'm sure all the little Apple pips will be queuing around the block, like always.

Re: Oh Look

[sexconker]

It actually is. I'd trade the iris scanners, fingerprint scanners, multiple cameras (not front/back, but multiple on one side), waterproofing, wireless charging, every OEM including their own store and assistant, barometers, heartrate monitors, etc. in an instant for:

Security and feature updates.
Front facing, stereo speakers.
A removable battery.
Quality control so the device doesn't overheat and throttle if you dare to play Pokemon GO outside, or doesn't bootloop and kill itself (I'm looking at you, LG).
SD card support (though I have almost no use for it personally).
Multiple SIM support (though I have no use for it personally).
A headphone jack (though I have no use for it personally).

The last good phone was the Nexus 6, and it was still far from perfect.

Re: Oh Look

[Anonymous Coward]

(though I have no use for it personally).

You lost all credibility the second you posted this sentence.

Re:Oh Look

[Tough Love]

I'm sure all the little Apple pips will be queuing around the block, like always.

I don't know about that. Look at this article, it's notable for the lack of the usual flood of pro-apple trolls.

Re:Oh Look

[Anonymous Coward]

Your Samsung's display went to the edge on all FOUR edges? No? Not the same thing as Samsung then. And "Wrapping" I'm mean "Distorting" over the edge on that Samsung is unappealing to most.

Re: Oh Look

[that this is not und]

Only credibility with Anonymous Coward which really isn't worth much.

Re: Oh Look

[that this is not und]

Only the truly hardcore Apple enthusiasts have chimed in, and in a subdued way.

Has there been a sea change? Have we moved on?

Re:Oh Look

[rat_herder]

He says, replying to two completely pointless Apple hater posts.

Re: Oh Look

[sexconker]

How so?

I don't have multiple SIMs. I also don't use my phone to listen to music or anything, so I don't connect headphones to it. I do connect my car to it for hands free calls while driving, but I take calls on my phone about once a month, if that.

Just because I don't use a feature doesn't mean I recognize it as a good feature. I'm not a dumb, selfish user, and I don't expect everything to be tailored exactly to me.

Re:Waitin for it to be unable to unlock for somebo

[Diss Champ]

You use your unlock code, just like the guy on stage had to do when it didn't unlock for him during the big presentation.

Fry will say....

[Anonymous Coward]

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/i...

What would Steve Jobs think?

[Anonymous Coward]

What would Steve Jobs think about the current state of Apple's products, were he still alive? I suspect he'd be disappointed. None of what we've seen today is earth-shattering innovation like Steve brought us again and again. Will Apple ever again create an earth-shattering innovation? Was Apple's ability to innovate really so dependent upon Steve?

Re:What would Steve Jobs think?

[Anonymous Coward]

I know, right? Face recognition? Android has has that for years. No physical button? Again, there have been Android phones with that 'feature' for years. Wireless charging? Yep. There is literally nothing innovative about this latest Apple release.

Re:What would Steve Jobs think?

[DontBeAMoran]

At least Apple are working with an open wireless standard (Qi) instead of trying to push their own custom, proprietary thing.

Re:What would Steve Jobs think?

[Joce640k]

This is major innovation to an Apple pip.

Android literally doesn't exist after you've drunk some of Apple's juice. It's invisible to you.

Re:What would Steve Jobs think?

[that this is not und]

Apple is the first company to obsolete a newly released product (iPhone 8) in it's product announcement by simultaneously introducing it's successor (iPhone X).

That took courage!

That's innovation! No company has ever before been so daring!

Re:What would Steve Jobs think?

[BronsCon]

Wait a minute... Maybe that is the innovation here! An Apple device built to work outside Apple's ecosystem! Now, wouldn't that be something?

A combination of opening up the walled garden just a bit and releasing computers based on current-gen hardware would get me to give them another look.

Re:What would Steve Jobs think?

[dgatwood]

SNL predicted this in 2005.

Re:What would Steve Jobs think?

[MachineShedFred]

This isn't even the first time they've done it. See: MacBookPro9 (non-retina old-school unibody case with optical slot) and MacBookPro10 (retina, current form factor) announced on the same day.

Re:What would Steve Jobs think?

[mattack2]

Apple is the first company to obsolete a newly released product (iPhone 8) in it's[sic] product announcement by simultaneously introducing it's[sic] successor (iPhone X).

It's not a "successor". It's a line of products with different capabilities, at different prices. Maybe you prefer one that is lower priced, or has TouchID instead.

Re:What would Steve Jobs think?

[Anonymous Coward]

My Note 5 can utilize either major wireless charging standard, Qi or PMA.

Moran.

Re:What would Steve Jobs think?

[Megane]

That 13" model was just a base model, specifically made for people who still needed an optical drive. I remember when that happened, because I was unhappy that the 17" model line died when Retina came out, especially since 2012 was when USB 3.0 finally got supported. I am still using a 17" that I got in 2012, currently on its second trackpad, GPU, and keyboard. (At least I can use an ExpressCard USB 3.0 adapter, but they stick out the side.)

But even that wasn't the first time that they made a "long term support" model. Apple sold a legacy version of the G4 "Windtunnel" PowerMac for a while. I think it was when Intel happened, when there were some important professional apps which still required the Classic OS9 environment. I seem to remember that QuarkXPress was the primary offender, because I joked that it should be called Quark9Press since it wouldn't run natively under OS X.

Re:What would Steve Jobs think?

[Anonymous Coward]

Do you compare everything by checkbox? The face recognition actually works extraordinary well, unlike the POS Android ones. What exactly would you consider innovative? Doing something nobody else has ever thought of? That's not how it works.

Re:What would Steve Jobs think?

[exomondo]

Even the design is just copied from the Essential Phone. Hopefully this will be just a one off special edition rather than the new direction of the iPhone.

Re:What would Steve Jobs think?

[DontBeAMoran]

I'm not saying Apple are innovating here. I'm saying that for once, they're working with existing standards. And now that Apple is backing Qi, you can kiss PMA good-bye.

Re:What would Steve Jobs think?

[ai4px]

I fully expected their wireless charger to be something unique and incompatible with Qi. Glad they didn't go that way.

Re:What would Steve Jobs think?

[MachineShedFred]

They were both 15" and there was a 13" - MacBookPro9,1 was the 15" non-retina, MacBookPro9,2 was the 13", MacBookPro10,1 was the 15" retina.

All three models released on 11 June 2012.

It's only $999

[known_coward_69]

WTF?

Why is it so cheap? Hoping it was at least $3000 so the peons couldn't afford one

Re:It's only $999

[DontBeAMoran]

A smartphone that costs less than a single bitcoin would still be cheap enough.

Re:It's only $999

[radarskiy]

Apple gets shit on anyway for supposedly being the most expensive phone, they might as well actually have the most expensive phone.

Re:It's only $999

[avandesande]

Maybe this explains the big leap forward he was talking about

Re:It's only $999

[Anonymous Coward]

Will be with optional USB-C adapter.

Re:It's only $999

[Anubis IV]

You'll be happy to know that someone has you covered.

Re:It's only $999

[sexconker]

Apple gets shit on anyway for supposedly being the most expensive phone, they might as well actually have the most expensive phone.

Just wait for the Pixel 2 XL.

Re:It's only $999

[Anonymous Coward]

Knot four peeons end morans!!!!!!!@

Re: It's only $999

[that this is not und]

I want to charge it with my USB C charger. The same one I use with my Asus tablet and my Nintendo Switch. Also the same power input the new Macbooks use.

Re: It's only $999

[Anubis IV]

Okay. That's nice. Why are you telling me?

Re:It's only $999

[Anonymous Coward]

Doesn't matter, even if on SNAP still got the latest iPhone somehow

Re:It's only $999

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes wtf Apple?
And even bother to sell a phone that is not 24 karat gold and priced at 9999 dollars?

And why so modern tech? We need tech that is older than 4 years! We need to make sure the tech works! Then we can all spread the holy word of Apple and how they have invented everything :-)

Re:It's only $999

[Anonymous Coward]

That price is getting lower and lower lol

Re:Waitin for it to be unable to unlock for somebo

[that this is not und]

The Police don't have your unlock code. They simply aim it at your face.

you're a fucking narcissist

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm pretty underwhelmed by this.

seek help soon, your narcissism is overwhelming

Re:you're a fucking narcissist

[Anonymous Coward]

"These improvements are underwhelming."

Oops, your point is bullshit. You'll need better than facebook lines to argue here.

iPhones are like hookers

[Anonymous Coward]

Not much difference from spending $300 on one versus spending $3,000 on one.

Re:iPhones are like hookers

[avandesande]

How about 30$ vs 300$?

FaceID + ApplePay = Problems?

[jemenake]

I didn't see the unveiling, but I'm wondering how they're going to protect against someone coming up to you, while you've got your head down playing Candy Crush, and just holding a Square ApplePay pad to your phone trying to make a $500 transaction. Up until now, with TouchID, you'd have to be holding a registered finger on the home button, but it would authorize the transaction in less than a second. Is FaceID just going to approve it if your face happens to be in front of it?

Re:FaceID + ApplePay = Problems?

[Dixie_Flatline]

You have to be actively paying attention, apparently—CFed demoed that. You also have to have your eyes open.

Re:FaceID + ApplePay = Problems?

[the_skywise]

You've got the double press the power (now the "selector"?) button to enable ApplePay now and they've probably disabled the auto-detection. If anything your scenario is more likely now with TouchID. My main issue with it is that it's not as seamless as using ApplePay with TouchID. Pull the phone out of my pocket, move the iPhone to the reader, wait for the iPhone to detect the reader and the card to appear and press the home button to confirm Now i've got to pull the phone out of my pocket, hold the phone to my face, double click the button and move the phone to the reader and then wait for the iPhone to detect the reader and hope that it detects my reader and not the one next to it as I move it over.

Re:FaceID + ApplePay = Problems?

[that this is not und]

You have to accidentally look at the phone so it sees your eyes before all your savings can be siphoned out of your account.

"It was all covered in the Presentation."

I want a t-shirt that has that printed on it, now.

Re:FaceID + ApplePay = Problems?

[Dixie_Flatline]

I didn't even know you could pre-detect like that. I've been double tapping the home button and authenticating BEFORE approaching the reader.

Re:FaceID + ApplePay = Problems?

[the_skywise]

Yeah - it's great playing Pokemon Go while waiting in line and then tapping the reader with the game going and the card appears, I press the button and continue playing.
The reactions are priceless
"Is that a Snorlax?!" (Why yes... yes it is)
"Those things never work and... oh wow... it worked... wait you can play pokemon while doing that?!"

My wildest experience using ApplePay though was in a cab in Miami where the cab driver started freaking out that I was hacking his credit card scanner with my iPhone!

Re:FaceID + ApplePay = Problems?

[BronsCon]

Presumably you've got your eyes open and are paying attention

while you've got your head down playing Candy Crush

Re:FaceID + ApplePay = Problems?

[Anonymous Coward]

Surely there's a window displayed, asking for the payment?

Otherwise, shut the fuck up, hurry up and start scamming people as fast as you can before Apple patches that problem.

Re:FaceID + ApplePay = Problems?

[Anonymous Coward]

Do you often play games on your phone without looking at the screen? I think you failed to comprehend the posited scenario.

Re:FaceID + ApplePay = Problems?

[Ksevio]

That'd be a pretty easy criminal to catch

Re:FaceID + ApplePay = Problems?

[AmiMoJo]

It's gonna be funny watching people try to hold the phone to the terminal and get their face in view at the same time.

Re:FaceID + ApplePay = Problems?

[Anonymous Coward]

Its even crazier with a Samsung phone that can be used on ANY card reader and not just the special ones.

Re:FaceID + ApplePay = Problems?

[rat_herder]

You have to accept by pushing a button on the side of the phone.

Mr. Schiller

[Suffering Bastard]

Phil Schiller claiming that the new devices have the "highest quality video capture ever in a smartphone."

Phil Schiller fills us with shilling.

Re:Mr. Schiller

[DontBeAMoran]

Surely you meant schilling.

Cue the "Thank you Ted, that was the joke."

Re: Mr. Schiller

[that this is not und]

Twenty-four pence is one shy of a quarter, which is a coin about the same size. But in the UK it's ok.

2 years old android

[denisbergeron]

Have almost all these new technologies with better display. .. except for face unlock, which I don't know if it's a valuable option?

Re:2 years old android

[Anonymous Coward]

Android introduced Face Unlock in 4.0. In 5.0 they rebranded it to "Trusted Face", and moved it from a primary unlock mechanism to the secondary "Smart Unlock" features, which are only allowed to unlock the phone under limited circumstances (similar to the iPhone - you still need the passcode after a power cycle for example).

Re:2 years old android

[UnknowingFool]

Trusted Face or Face Unlock has been around on Android but the implementation from Apple is slightly different. Androids use the camera for this while Apple's implementation uses sensors.

FaceID FAILURE!!!

[HannethCom]

The funniest thing was them trying to show it off working on stage, and it failed asking him to use his PIN instead because face recognition failed.

Re:FaceID FAILURE!!!

[Anonymous Coward]

you mean they didn't fake it like the entire original iphone presentation done by jobs in 2009?

https://www.techspot.com/news/...

Re:FaceID FAILURE!!!

[Dixie_Flatline]

Face recognition didn't fail, they didn't unlock the phone when it woke up, just like with Touch ID. You have to provide a passcode after the phone has been turned off and on.

Re:FaceID FAILURE!!!

[Cro Magnon]

Yeah, they fell on their faces with that one.

Re:FaceID FAILURE!!!

[dgatwood]

Actually, they probably got bitten by the infamous once-per-week passcode behavior that Apple's engineers keep telling us is a feature. If it has been more than one week since you last entered your passcode, the iPhone goes into a mode where you can only unlock it with a fingerprint (or, in this case, a face) for a maximum of eight hours since the last unlock. Thus, as soon as you go to sleep on the seventh day, assuming you get a normal eight hours of sleep, your phone will require a passcode.

It's a borderline useless design decision. After all, the odds of your phone just happening to get stolen after those eight hours and before you unlock it again with the passcode are approximately zero, so making this mode kick in one week after the last passcode unlock instead of one week after the last unlock (in any form) doesn't actually improve security in any meaningful way. At best, the only thing it does is force users to enter their passcode so they don't forget it and find themselves locked out after a software update when they're forced to enter it (which is, in itself, arguably a bug).

Re:FaceID FAILURE!!!

[torkus]

At best, the only thing it does is force users to enter their passcode so they don't forget it

You answered your own question. That is very much why this is in place.

Re:FaceID FAILURE!!!

[dgatwood]

Which means it ought to be able to be turned off, for users that are smart enough to either use a memorable passcode or write down their passcode. The problem is, by forcing users to enter their passcode once a week, it also encourages users to choose shorter, easier-to-type passcodes to avoid the nuisance. So it ends up forcing the user to remember a passcode that is so simple that the user wouldn't forget it anyway.

Instead, Apple should require a passcode before turning the device off or rebooting it. (IIRC, they already do this before installing a software update.) That way, if the user has forgotten the passcode, the user can still back up, wipe, and restore, losing nothing other than possibly passwords in their keychain marked with the "don't back up" option. Or heck, make it possible for the device to be remotely unlocked via Find-My-iPhone even after a reboot, or... there are any number of better ways to get that functionality without annoying users once a week. The irritating behavior is just the most obvious outward sign of a much deeper, more fundamental conceptual flaw in their entire authentication scheme.

Re:FaceID FAILURE!!!

[rat_herder]

yeah i was also very surprised by that. Shows a level of confidence i guess. Very enjoyably to watch the presenter freak out for a second.

Re:FaceID FAILURE!!!

[mjwx]

The funniest thing was them trying to show it off working on stage, and it failed asking him to use his PIN instead because face recognition failed.

Android has had this for some time, you pretty much have two options with trying to use a face as a password. 1. Make it so stringent that it fails 99% of the time, 2. Make is so lax that someone with a different skin colour can pass it.

I believe this was first introduced in Ice Cream Sandwich, which was released in Oct 2011. In the last 6 years, it's never been more than a gimmick.

Re:FaceID FAILURE!!!

[Dixie_Flatline]

This would present completely different issues, and presumably wouldn't even work in some cases (phone has crashed) and would be meaningless if the phone's battery died.

My passcode is over 15 characters long. I love biometric sign-in specifically because it lets me have a long passcode that doesn't get in my way constantly.

The passcode lock turns on after 24 hours of not signing in—or this week-long thing—primarily to make sure that whoever has the phone is really the person that should have the phone. The week-long version is a bit weird, but I don't think it's a huge burden.

Re:FaceID FAILURE!!!

[Anubis IV]

While there was a gaffe with that demo, it actually wasn't a problem with Face ID. Rather, whoever was prepping those iPhones didn't do something they should have done, which resulted in the presenter triggering a standard security mechanism that everyone who uses Touch ID probably recognized immediately.

As a security precaution, iPhones are currently designed to require that the user enter their passcode instead of using Touch ID:
1) Every time the iPhone is restarted.
2) If it's been more than a week since the last time the passcode was entered and more than 8 hours since the last time it was unlocked.
3) After too many failed attempts to unlock the iPhone via Touch ID.

Based on the message displayed on the demo iPhone X, it looks like Face ID has those same precautions and that they happened to run into #2, which was an entirely avoidable blunder. All they needed to do was have someone go through and made sure that each of those devices was unlocked via passcode sometime in the prior week. The fact that they didn't meant that they got egg all over their face right as they were trying to introduce a marquee feature.

You can bet someone got a chewing out over that mistake.

Re:FaceID FAILURE!!!

[farble1670]

Are you really complaining about the fact that you have to type 4 or six digits on your phone 1x per week?

If ***this*** is what's really getting your goat, you are what's known as a satisfied customer.

Re:Waitin for it to be unable to unlock for somebo

[Joce640k]

It's almost as if you haven't understood a single thing about how it works.

Police will love FaceID

[Anonymous Coward]

Just hold up the phone to the person they arrest and they are in.

Re:Police will love FaceID

[cmeans]

Just keep your eyes closed...maybe.

Re:Waitin for it to be unable to unlock for somebo

[avandesande]

Hopefully they will have punched you in the face so it is nice and swollen

More magical or brave?

[Samurai Nigel]

What's old is new again, I guess. Wireless charging at a time when it's either standard or removed. "Windows Hello" at a time where Windows phones aren't really a thing anymore. "Edge-to-edge" screen when every other manufacturer realized how lame this gimmick was.

All wrapped in a very large, chrome-wrapped... iPhone 3GS case?

I am pretty sure this is neither magical, nor brave.

Re:More magical or brave?

[DontBeAMoran]

Apple is using the Qi open wireless standard so at least that's something. They're not pushing their own custom proprietary standard and hopefully that will get the ball rolling to get wireless charging standard, like when they pushed USB when PCs were still using PS/2, serial and parallel ports for everything.

Apple's iPhone X isn't really "edge-to-edge" as Samsung did. What Samsung has/had was a display past the curved edges, meaning a distorted display that's technologically impressive but pointless.

As for the comparison, it's glass in front and on the back like the iPhone 4, not the 3GS.

Re:More magical or brave?

[Samurai Nigel]

Yeah, I see their "edge-to-edge" better now when I look at the renders/pictures. Not what I think of with that wording. I guess it's better than saying "we removed the home button."

My 3GS comment was more about the look of the phone, not the materials behind it:

https://cnet2.cbsistatic.com/i...

https://upload.wikimedia.org/w....

I see what you're saying about the materials, where the back is glass and the metal wraps around the phone like the iPhone 4. I just happen to think the overly rounded, chrome-polished edges make it look like a giant 3GS.

Re: More magical or brave?

[that this is not und]

Windows 98 was pushing towards 'USB everything' at about the same time as Apple. There wasn't just a total dump of the old, like when Apple dumped every third-party ADB peripheral overnight with ideological glee. My current PC with an MSI gaming motherboard that I built this spring still has PS/2 connectors. They still work with Windows 10. Oh the Horror!!!

Re:Waitin for it to be unable to unlock for somebo

[known_coward_69]

maybe you're the one that is stupid?

It scans your facial features and essentially computes a checksum from the data. not your haircut

Re:Waitin for it to be unable to unlock for somebo

[brianerst]

Supposedly there is a "super-locked" mode that you invoke by pressing the power and volume buttons (or double-clicking them or somesuch) which turns off the FaceID until you enter your unlock code manually.

Popo shows up, double-click, done. Presumably with all the face tracking and recognition stuff they added today, they could extend that to a certain expression - stick your tongue out, phone locks down.

Re: ONCE AGAIN APPLE INNOVATES! NEXT COME THE COP

[denisbergeron]

/s you forgot because over face unlock I didn't see any innovation there!

Re:Waitin for it to be unable to unlock for somebo

[MikeDataLink]

This is stupid, what happens if the face detection does not work? What happens if you get injured or even a new haircut? What if you have a dark complexion or get a tan? This is the smarted form of stupid yet from Apple, a company more and more out of touch with its customers.

This was all addressed in the presentation. It still works if you change your look, because that's not the data points the sensors are looking at.

Re:Waitin for it to be unable to unlock for somebo

[MikeDataLink]

The Police don't have your unlock code. They simply aim it at your face.

Again, addressed in the presentation. If they point it at your face, don't look at the screen and it won't unlock.

Nope Not True Edge to Edge

[HannethCom]

I have seen the Samsung edge to edge technology, and it is truly edge to edge. I just saw the iPhone X, and there is a definite bezel. It is a wrapping around piece of glass, but there is black between the screen and the side of the glass, so not a true edge to edge, even though they are using a Samsung display.

Re:Nope Not True Edge to Edge

[fafalone]

Indeed. It's getting extremely frustrating; all these companies are so anxious to get to the point where there actually is no bezel, that now they just call any bezel smaller than the previous generation of phones "edge-to-edge" or even "bezel-less". They already have the technology, as the Samsung Edge devices show (they don't even need to make it wrap around so far); my guess is they want to milk things for a few generations before making a truly all-screen phone. After all, once the bezel is gone completely, where do they go from there?
The iPhone X bezel is huge from the looks of that video.

Re:Nope Not True Edge to Edge

[dgatwood]

If it were much smaller, you couldn't use it with a case, which most iPhone users do (87% according to one survey).

That said, I really don't get the appeal of bezel-less design on cell phones. It seems completely backwards to me. I hold a phone in my hand. The bezel provides a grip surface. Making that surface smaller is an undesirable feature. Yet if the technology is possible in a phone, it should also be possible in a laptop, which I don't hold in my hand, which therefore does not need a bezel. Why didn't the technology get used there first (or, for that matter, exclusively)?

Worse, when the menu bar is white or when watching videos, these bezel-less designs look ugly. That huge gap at the top where the camera goes means that you can't really watch videos on the entire screen, or else you lose part of the image and it looks ridiculous. So app developers will end up adding a zoom mode like they did for the 4:3 iPads so that the unusable area is avoided. And if they don't want it to look ridiculously lopsided, they'll probably trim the other end, too, and effectively we bring back the bezel, just without the convenience of an actual home button.

I just don't get it. What about this is supposed to be an improvement?

Re:Nope Not True Edge to Edge

[D.McG.]

The resolution is 2436 x 1125; which is not a 16:9 aspect ratio. Given a height of 1125, typical videos would play at 2000x1125 (or just cropped to 1920x1080). I suspect that the rounded corners and cutaway area at the top are in that remaining 436 pixel area; given the 458 DPI. So don't worry about movies being ruined. The rounded areas would't come into play. The benefit of this 5.85" display is that the entire phone is only 5.65" in length; just 0.2" taller than the iPhone 8, and 0.6" shorter than the 8 Plus.

Re:Nope Not True Edge to Edge

[dgatwood]

But the edges were in play when they played video during the demo.

Re:Nope Not True Edge to Edge

[Anonymous Coward]

Not that I find it easy to get excited by edge wrapping displays either, but it is possible to design a case that leaves the edges clear - there are plenty of cases available for Samsung's "Edge" models.

Re:Nope Not True Edge to Edge

[dgatwood]

Not that I find it easy to get excited by edge wrapping displays either, but it is possible to design a case that leaves the edges clear - there are plenty of cases available for Samsung's "Edge" models.

That depends on how many edges have to be left clear. A phone case held in the traditional manner must cover some portion of the front on at least two opposite edges, or else the phone will just fall forwards out of the front of the case, and even then, only if the case extends most of the way to the front of the phone (to prevent it from slipping out sideways). Otherwise, you could potentially need coverage on all four edges.

The only way to avoid partial-two-edge coverage would be to specifically design mounting features into the phone, such as grooves running down the side in which a protrusion on the case can slide, or screw holes, or pin holes, or some other indentation into the sides or ends of the phone (or screw holes in the back of the phone). With that said, a case can cover a very small portion of the sides or top and bottom. For a device that needs the left and right edges exposed, for example, a case can cover the device only at the corners (beyond the screen) or across the edge of the top and bottom, leaving the sides completely clear. Note, however, that this still precludes being bezel-less on all four sides (unless you provide screw holes, etc.).

Of course, there are also limits beyond which a case would start to not make sense—particularly when you consider gestures like swiping from the edge of the screen, which are challenging for a device in a case even under the best of circumstances. The closer you get to bezel-less, the more of a problem those gestures are likely to be.

Re:Nope Not True Edge to Edge

[thegarbz]

Why didn't the technology get used there first (or, for that matter, exclusively)?

Economics of production. It's best to try new ideas on small devices before you ramp them up to something more difficult to manufacture.

Re:Nope Not True Edge to Edge

[windwalkr]

From what has been said, it seems that a typical-ratio movie will behave as GP describes. The user can opt to zoom in (in which case the cutaway does obscure the view, but the movie is also cropped at top and bottom. The user can probably also play a movie with an atypical ratio, which assumedly is always obscured although perhaps a default zoom-to-fit is used.

Re:Nope Not True Edge to Edge

[gspeare]

I just don't get it. What about this is supposed to be an improvement?

Screen size of the plus model in the form factor of the non-plus model. More screen = good.

I know what you mean about bezel-less though; it looks really pretty (at least the S8 does) but seems like it might be less functional.

Cut and paste

[Billly Gates]

Yet can't even cut and paste. No wonder the world has switched to Android. I see they are still trying to catch up with Samsung with wireless charging and edge to edge screens

Re:Cut and paste

[MightyYar]

The world has switched to Android largely because it's cheap. There are certainly Samsung $600+ phone fanboys, but the vast majority of Android phones are cheap.

(Count me in that camp - $600+ for a phone is not my kind of toy.)

Re:Cut and paste

[pauljlucas]

Yet can't even cut and paste.

Copy & paste has been in iOS since 3.0 which was back in 2009. But don't let reality ruin your out-of-date rant.

Re:Cut and paste

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe he meant usable copy and paste. I do QA on mobile devices for a living, so I use copy and paste dozens of times a day. Because Jobs hated the idea of it on a mobile device, he at first disallowed it completely. He even fired people that argued for the feature. He finally backed off a little and only allowed it if they made it a pain to use so that the vast majority of people would never use it. That is why it is so terrible. Jobs made the decision to make it terrible.

Also, I've managed a lot of focus groups to test our apps, and very few people know how to do it. A huge portion (SWAG: about 80% for people over fifty) can't do it even with someone talking them through it. Jobs won. Copy/paste on iPhones is dead.

Re:Cut and paste

[UnknowingFool]

Define "usable" copy and paste. I can do it perfectly fine on iOS and OS X. And Android. And Windows. Now on iOS you can place limits on what can be copied if the data is sensitive from what I understand.

Re:Cut and paste

[thegarbz]

The world has switched to Android largely because it's cheap.

Sorry to derail your thought, but those >$600 Samsung phones are the best selling Android devices on the market by a significant margin followed quite closely by flagship phones from other companies. Hell even special purpose devices like phablets outsell the cheap Android devices in any market with money (i.e. the west, and the richer east).

Re:Cut and paste

[Anonymous Coward]

Sorry, it's the patented Jobs Reality Distortion Field. (TM)

Re:Cut and paste

[Anonymous Coward]

He didn't say copy. He said cut. Cut and paste.

Re:Cut and paste

[MightyYar]

They are popular single models, but they do not outsell cheap handsets by unit volume. Average selling price of a Samsung (a premium brand) phone was $227 last year.

Re:Cut and paste

[Anonymous Coward]

The biggest problem I see is having to press on the same exact spot twice to get the selection thing to display. It's really hard for me to do with the Plus sized phone and with my pretty poor up close vision.

Re: Cut and paste

[that this is not und]

It's amazing, the huge variety of smartphones Samsung sells under the Galaxy brand. You can get $30 tracphone Samsung Galaxys (if you're foolish enough to) in a Walgreens.

Re: Cut and paste

[MightyYar]

And all I want is one with decent "phablet" specs in an under 5" form factor :)

Actually, I'd be perfectly happy with the one they sell as the Galaxy A in Europe, but it doesn't have all of the US frequencies.

Re:Cut and paste

[rat_herder]

Be careful with this kind of insightful post. Not always welcome here.

Re:Cut and paste

[Anonymous Coward]

And even Windows phone had drag and drop. As a matter of fact, I used it just the other day to drop it in the trash.

Re:Cut and paste

[Anonymous Coward]

Selecting a specific block of text in iOS is impossible. Either you select a single word, or the entire page. There's no middle ground. This makes doing what should be simple tasks in iOS absolutely impossible: you can't copy a URL and paste it in a browser, because you'll just select a single "word" from the URL and some parts of it can't be copied as punctuation. You can't copy a phone number: each individual group of numbers must be copied individually and you can't paste them in part-by-part to the dialer because the dialer resets every time you do. You can't copy and paste street addresses, because you can only select word by word and - again - attempting to paste in the next word instead overwrites with just that word.

Copy and paste in iOS is so horribly broken it might as well not exist.

Re:Cut and paste

[thegarbz]

That $227 figure that is quoted quite often has one very big driver that I already mentioned: emerging low cost markets. The average price of a Samsung phone in the USA, Europe, Korea, or Japan is no where near $227, and very much close to the premium mark. Those $227 are driven primarily by the expansion into India.

Re:Cut and paste

[thegarbz]

Be careful with this kind of insightful post. Not always welcome here.

Yep. Quoting a world wide average, ignoring why that average is how it is, in reply to a post specifically addressing that the world wide average is not a suitable indicator of how we buy phones in the west is not welcome here. None the less someone will find it insightful.

Re:Cut and paste

[MightyYar]

I don't buy it. Googling around I can see even Europe has an average phone selling price of $259, and that includes iPhones. The only anomaly is North America - and it is notable that in North America iPhones have around 30% of the market - a share that continues to grow. So the only market which might support your claim is the same one where Android is losing marketshare.

Re: Cut and paste

[UnknowingFool]

Er? When I use an iPhone to cut and paste on a word, I touch the word and iOS selects it all automatically. Also you can select a URL easily. Again I click once in the address in the bar and the whole URL is selected. Have you actually used an iPhone recently?

Re:Cut and paste

[JohnFen]

I use Android phones because they meet my needs much better than the others.

Re:Cut and paste

[JohnFen]

In my opinion, Android's cut-and-paste is pretty bad. The best I can say for it is it's "usable", but it's a pain to use and very limited.

Re:Cut and paste

[MightyYar]

Yeah, so you are one of the fanboys I spoke about. But the trend is undeniable - Android phones sell for ~$200 on average and iPhones go for ~$600 on average. My current phone was effectively free. If I had unlimited funds, I might buy a high-end Android or an iPhone. I haven't spent much time deliberating because they are both way out of my price range.

Re:Cut and paste

[thegarbz]

By losing market share you mean bouncing around like a two dollar hooker but hey in 2016 it jumped slightly in favour of Apple so it's a trend?

I just Googled around too. Figures all over the place. I found the article you quoted and to consider North America the anomaly when you look at the living conditions and general wealth is just silly. The only anomaly there is Europe which seems to have had a massive shift from 2013 to 2017. Now nothing significant financially has happened in Europe in that period has it.

You're good at cherry picking, but your data doesn't back up your conclusion that people pick Android for low cost as wealthy countries still buy high cost Android devices. Also the USA is far from the largest iPhone market share.

Re:Cut and paste

[JohnFen]

I'm not really a fanboy. A fanboy has an emotional attachment to whatever they're a fan of. I don't have an emotional attachment to Android.

Re:Cut and paste

[MightyYar]

Sorry, I didn't mean to make it a derogatory term. Android meets my needs because I'm a cheapskate. You prefer Android for its other merits, and that's cool. Some people buy them because they have a deep antipathy towards Apple, and that's fine too. But I think there are more of me than there are of you. I find it hard to believe that the correlation between ASP and unit shipments is coincidental.

Re:Cut and paste

[rat_herder]

Give me a break. The OP was worthless troll and the reply was simple and reasonable. You can assemble all the hay you like about individual models and what country uses what. Can't believe you took the time to write that.

Re: Cut and paste

[windwalkr]

Actually, he's somewhat correct. There are definitely times where iOS refuses to allow word-level selection. This isn't the standard behavior for text selection but does seem pretty common when using Safari. The interaction might start off as word-level selection but then for some reason the phone will decide you actually wanted to select paragraphs and once it's "switched to that mode" it won't change back. I assume this has something to do with the way that the HTML is formatted but from a user perspective it's just stupid.

iOS also has issues with allowing you to select words or characters when a large block is already selected. It's technically possible, but can be frustratingly difficult to achieve in practice.

Re:Cut and paste

[thegarbz]

Can't believe you took the time to write that.

You should look up troll in the dictionary.

Can't believe you took the time to write that.

and then look up irony.

Re:Cut and paste

[rat_herder]

Cool, so nothing useful to say? Your breathless intervention to rescue the legitimacy of the OP was totally worth it right? Do i need to point out that post has been modded 'troll'?

Homeless

[iTrawl]

Both the iPhone and you after you buy it.

another glass back...

[kiviQr]

another glass back that will look ridiculous in rubber armor.

Re: another glass back...

[that this is not und]

We try to be inclusive here. Don't pick on the rubber fetishists. Your BOSS might turn out to be part of that community.

Re:another glass back...

[Anonymous Coward]

If you can see a glass back through rubber armor, you have very special eyes. Alternatively, you've not really thought this through, have you?

Updates

[Anonymous Coward]

According to the demonstration, it accounts for variations in your face over time. If you have plastic surgery you'll probably need to re-train the recognizer.

Re:Waitin for it to be unable to unlock for somebo

[Anonymous Coward]

IF IT were a checksum, a cut on your face would essentially lock you out via FaceID. That's the whole idea of a checksum. What's more likely is that there is a tolerance margin

Is the facial recognition a cloud service?

[kaka.mala.vachva]

Will unlocking a phone require that photos are uploaded to Apple cloud, or is it something that will stay on the phone only? Just curious - I don't plan on buying an iPhone X and will probably move back to Android after my sole Apple purchase, an iPhone 6s, dies.

Re:Is the facial recognition a cloud service?

[Dixie_Flatline]

Facial recognition doesn't take any photos, just like Touch ID didn't take an imprint of your finger. It converts it to a mathematical representation and does a comparison inside the Secure Enclave. The analysis it does is non-transferable.

Re:Is the facial recognition a cloud service?

[TFlan91]

"I don't have time to either read or watch the announcement, can you please answer my questions that are spelled out already"

As described in the announcement, all facial recognition is done locally. Nothing touches a "cloud" server.

Re:Is the facial recognition a cloud service?

[kaka.mala.vachva]

Weeelll .. if I RTFA I wouldn't be on Slashdot, would I? And D...E - thanks :)

Re:Is the facial recognition a cloud service?

[that this is not und]

I'm waiting for some Industrial band to come out with a song called 'Inside the Secure Enclave.'

Of course, it's undoubtedly an Apple trademark and they will be sued until the band members have all become dishwashers at second-rate 'family' Italian restaurants.

Re:Is the facial recognition a cloud service?

[Anonymous Coward]

Um, I respect the UID, but not so much the comment... of course it takes a photo. Maybe it claims to not store it, but there's no way for it to avoid it. "Taking a photo" and "converts it to a mathematical representation" are absolutely the same things.

Re:Is the facial recognition a cloud service?

[PolygamousRanchKid]

As described in the announcement, all facial recognition is done locally. Nothing touches a "cloud" server.

Tech companies lie like rugs when asked about their "cooperation" with creepier folks like the NSA.

If they should so desire . . . the entire contents of "your" smartphone can be uploaded by the Secret Squirrels to their clouds. Courtesy of the hospitable help from your smartphone manufacturer.

Any information that can be stored anywhere will be eventually abused by somebody.

Just wait long enough to find out . . .

Re:Is the facial recognition a cloud service?

[Anubis IV]

You're assuming Face ID relies on photos (like most other smartphone facial recognition systems), but so far as we know, it doesn't. Rather, it works a lot more like the Kinect.

Basically, it uses an infrared dot projector and infrared sensor in the new "TrueDepth Camera System" to create a three-dimensional mesh of the user's face by projecting 30,000 IR dots onto your face, then detecting how they relate to each other. Based on the distances between the dots the phone is able to generate a 3D mapping of your face which is then mathematically represented, hashed, and stored in the Secure Enclave, in much the same way that fingerprints are handled with Touch ID. All of that is done without necessarily needing a photo to be taken. And, just to conjecture a bit, I wouldn't be surprised to find out that they apply filtering to the IR sensor when it's used for Face ID so that it doesn't capture the wavelengths associated with body heat emitted from faces (since filtering in that way would make it easier to track the dots), meaning that they may not even capture an image of your face in the infrared spectrum at all, let alone in the visible spectrum.

But, going back to the OP's question, Apple has explicitly confirmed to various news outlets that all information collected via Face ID stays on their user's devices, so even if they captured a photo, they've confirmed they won't get it.

Re:Is the facial recognition a cloud service?

[mrwireless]

Still, most people don't know this. It still helps create a culture where pointing camera's at faces becomes more normal.

Not to mention how the AR thing will push a culture of pointing camera's at everything in private space of the home.

Everyone was rightfully upset at the idea that smart vacuum cleaners would send digital maps of our homes to the cloud. And now we're jumping for joy at a technology that will take this to a whole new level.

Re:Is the facial recognition a cloud service?

[Anonymous Coward]

No, it is on device.

Re:Is the facial recognition a cloud service?

[Dixie_Flatline]

You only think this because humans deal in visual information, and that's actually pretty useless to good facial recognition. This is why I assume this works with faces that aren't white and caucasian unlike most other facial recognition systems based on facial image data for years, and presumably also why it isn't fooled by flat photographs. (It isn't even fooled by masks, which is astounding.) The contour data is much more useful than an 'image' in the human-visual-system sense.

Re:Is the facial recognition a cloud service?

[rainer_d]

Still, most people don't know this. It still helps create a culture where pointing camera's at faces becomes more normal.
 

Dude, where have you been living?

Ever heard of selfies?

Re: Is the facial recognition a cloud service?

[that this is not und]

The key word there is 'self'. Pointing a camera in somebody elses face is different.

Re: Is the facial recognition a cloud service?

[that this is not und]

'We have the Secret Enclave to protect us' bleat the faithful.

Re:Is the facial recognition a cloud service?

[rat_herder]

If you're curious they talk about it at length in the keynote : It actually projects a bunch of dots on your face then measures the distances between them and creates a vector model that is stored as numbers only. Like the guy said, no photos taken or stored.

Re:Is the facial recognition a cloud service?

[Anonymous Coward]

The 0s and 1s that make up the bits of any jpg or gif are just a mathematical representation. Yes, you simpleton fuck, it takes a picture.

Re:Is the facial recognition a cloud service?

[UnknowingFool]

You're assuming Face ID relies on photos (like most other smartphone facial recognition systems), but so far as we know, it doesn't. Rather, it works a lot more like the Kinect.

I would say it probably works like an upgraded Kinect as Apple bought out PrimeSense in 2013.

Re:Is the facial recognition a cloud service?

[UnknowingFool]

As mentioned by other posters, a Kinect does not take a photo either. It uses sensors. Also the claim is not that it does not store it. They claim is that it does not store the data as a photo at the filesystem level. It stores it as data inside the Secure Enclave. So if you happen to write some sort of Trojan on the iPhone, you could not get to the facial recognition data by looking for a .PNG or .JPG or .SVG file in the filesystem. Even if you were able to find a file that might be the facial data and decrypt it (AES 256 bit encryption), the practical problem is that you'd have to interpret the format. With photos format specifications, converting the data to a usable form is easy as those specifications are known. I don't know how to interpret the data format that Apple would use.

Re:Is the facial recognition a cloud service?

[Anubis IV]

I was trying to remember the name of that company yesterday when I heard the announcement, since I knew Apple had been in the bidding for them, but I couldn't remember if it was Apple or Microsoft who ended up buying them out. Thanks!

It is an ugly phone

[atomicalgebra]

The camera area in the top part of the phone is ugly. It is unlike Apple to produce something that is so visually unappealing.

Re:It is an ugly phone

[thegarbz]

Normally I don't follow comments like this, but really yes it is. Having a black space impinging on the display is ugly. It almost looks like someone bought a phone cover for the wrong model. Part of me can't get over thinking that I'm probably missing something in that part of the screen.

Would it have killed them to make the screen a few mm shorter? I mean it's not like having 2 thin black lines at the top and bottom (see Galaxy S8) doesn't look really damn good.

Dumb question, sorry

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm at work so I didn't get to see the presentation. Did they address anything wrt someone unlocking your iPhoneX with a photograph of your face? You know, like the one most people have in their phones for a contact icon/image.

Re:Dumb question, sorry

[Joce640k]

I'm at work so I didn't get to see the presentation. Did they address anything wrt someone unlocking your iPhoneX with a photograph of your face? You know, like the one most people have in their phones for a contact icon/image.

If only Apple could employ people with as much engineering insight as you...

Re:Dumb question, sorry

[gmb61]

It uses dual cameras and an array of sophisticated sensors and emitters to do a 3D scan of your face, so no, no photograph is going to be able to spoof your face to get around the security.

Re:Dumb question, sorry

[atomicalgebra]

If only Apple could employ people with as much engineering insight as you...

I am sure it would not hurt. I would have told them led horns( or flaps or what ever you want to call them) are ugly. It distracts the users focus away from the content.

Re:Dumb question, sorry

[Anonymous Coward]

If only Apple could employ people with as much engineering insight as you...

I don't think OP was being sarcastic. I think he's genuinely just a fucking idiot.

OLED? Welcome to 2010

[sremick]

Congratulations, Apple. You discovered... er, "invented" the OLED display for everyone. Welcome to 7 years ago. Every Android phone I've ever had has had an OLED display, which is so ridiculously better than LCD I could never go back now.

Enjoy paying 2X more for a phone that now doesn't even have one fucking button. But then again, Apple lost its way regarding usability and an intuitive UI many years ago.

Re:OLED? Welcome to 2010

[Dixie_Flatline]

It has 3 buttons.

Lame

[110010001000]

No wireless. Less space than a Nomad. Lame.

ShitEmoji...

[Anonymous Coward]

I guess the Sh..t Animonji (which was so ably demostrated during the presentation) sums up well where Apple products are heading...
The late Steve Jobs must be turning i his grave...

One quetion, do the new iPhones support HD Audio?

No jack

[Anonymous Coward]

No buy

Announces?

[fustakrakich]

You mean Apple leaks iPhone X, right?

TrueDepth

[hackertourist]

Here's hoping the face scanning technology becomes user accessible as a general-purpose 3D scanner.

Re:TrueDepth

[Kohath]

I was disappointed they didn't put one on the back for this reason.

Someone might make a cool application for it.

Re:TrueDepth

[Anonymous Coward]

Since it powers that "animoji" feature, and they demoed a Snapchat filter that uses it, and the camera can also use it for "portrait" effects, it's clearly available to user-space code in some fashion. Exactly what you can get from user-space I can't say, but clearly they're willing to allow user-space some sort of access to it.

Re:TrueDepth

[mordejai]

Someone might make a cool application for it.

That's definitely not Apple's way of doing things.
Not saying that's good or bad; it just not how they work.

Re:Waitin for it to be unable to unlock for somebo

[sexconker]

All biometric systems are fuzzy. So fuzzy that the idea that they're secure is laughable.

iPhones are like hookers

[Anonymous Coward]

Spending $1,000 on one isn't going to be much more fun than spending $300 on one.

Interesting portrait photo features

[Camembert]

This was overshadowed by the FaceID news: an interesting addition are specific lighting options for portrait photos. Curious how well it will work in real life.

Re:Waitin for it to be unable to unlock for somebo

[DontBeAMoran]

It has to have built-in tolerances because of minority groups.

The games are going to be AWESOME...

[Anonymous Coward]

Grand Theft iPhone... Call of Duty V, Subtitled, "I didn't get the Army College Fund OR GI Bill; I opted instead for the Army to buy me an iPhone, and am paying for it with 4, 5, or 6 years of my life*," and other titles like NFL 2017, with the tagline, "So Real, You'll Get a Concussion Just Like Our Real Players..."

Etc.

(*Depending on whether I wanted 64, 256, or 512GB of storage.)

Re: The games are going to be AWESOME...

[that this is not und]

The game demos didn't go over that well. It's the kind of thing that's hard to demo well on a mobile device on a stage.

Wrong

[SuperKendall]

WORKING face recognition (defined as actually secure, works reliably, and is not fooled by a picture) we have not seen on a phone yet.

Re:Wrong

[Anonymous Coward]

WORKING face recognition (defined as actually secure, works reliably, and is not fooled by a picture) we have not seen on a phone yet.

There's two questions there. Firstly there is accuracy in the real world and then there is the actual security of it.

Sure it may end up being practically accurate but that doesn't mean it is secure. In fact Apple themselves admitted the "Secure Enclave" wasn't really that secure when they used that as the reason for not allowing TouchID sensor replacement by third parties, apparently if you compromise the sensor you compromise the Secure Enclave. Very very poorly designed when you can compromise the security of a safe by simply replacing the keypad on the door.

$50 price increase on the base model.

[Anonymous Coward]

The iPhone 8 is starting at $700, whereas the previous iPhone 7 (and most previous generations) started at $649. I guess increasing the base storage to 64 gigabytes hurt the profit margins too much?

At least they dropped the price on the iPhone 7 by $100. I half expected for them to keep selling at the same price.

Word verification: gained

Re:$50 price increase on the base model.

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes. The $3 worth of extra-slow flash memory hurt the profit margins too much, so they decided to charge users an extra $50 for it. That helped the profit margins an awful lot. That and the absolute, dumbfounding, unbelievable stupidity of the herd.

Not impressed

[Anonymous Coward]

Nothing about the iPhone X impresses me enough to spend the extra cash on it. I'll take a regular old iPhone and pocket the cash.

Wrong

[SuperKendall]

of course it takes a photo.

No, there is no photo involved.

It captures 30k depth points and stores that. There's no color involved at all.

It does not store it off the phone and not in a way anyone can access the data.

It's more like storing a hash of a 3D model.

Edge

[fluffernutter]

With all these edge to edge displays, I hope they have technology that can prevent my phone from doing totally unpredictable things when I pick it up. Is that too much to ask for? This is a problem with my regular bezel edge phone, can't imagine what it will be like with an edge to edge phone.

Re:Edge

[AmiMoJo]

Good phones already have edge touch rejection that handles this. Samsung has had it the longest, but now it's pretty standard on high end android devices.

Re:Edge

[Anonymous Coward]

I still have a standard Galaxy s7, but my friend bitches and whines all the time about his fingers activating stuff on his edge and says in won't get another, so they may have it but it certainly isn't a solved issue and I am certain if Samsung hasn't solved it then Apple certainly won't have.

Re:Edge

[fluffernutter]

I have a note 5 and it doesn't have it. Perhaps it was introduced in the note 7?

Re:Edge

[rat_herder]

Apples version doesn't go right around the edges like the samsung phones. People are saying that's a negative but I actually don't like that curved display on the edge, it looks like the image warps as it goes over the edge. Would annoy me endlessly in practice. But yeah i often wondered if the accidental input thing would be an issue. Apple appears to have the palm rejection (accidental input) thing pretty down on the iPad, so I'd guess it will be ok. They pay a lot of attention to that kind of thing.

Re:Edge

[thegarbz]

can't imagine what it will be like with an edge to edge phone.

Then just walk into a shop and try it. There's no problem with rejecting touches on the edge of the screen on the Galaxy S6 edge or any other edge to edge display built in the past 3 generations. It's one of those things that you think will be a problem because of your previous experience with a completely unrelated product. But the thing is, when people build something that actively causes a problem they also design engineering solutions for them.

It's like watching people use the stylus on my Surface for the first time and seeing them hover their hands in their air. Dude put your hand on the screen like a normal writer. Palm rejection, accidental touch rejection, and all those other things were actually thought of in the design.

Re:Edge

[Anonymous Coward]

I have a Samsung S8 since June (I switched after having several iPhones). The edge display is gorgeous--and ANNOYING. The touch response is wonky at the edges and it's hard to hold the phone without activating something on the edge. Friends who have these "edge" phones tell me they agree that edge displays sound better than they are in practice. GIVE ME MY BEZEL BACK.

Waiting for the asian Apple 9

[WillAffleckUW]

Look, I don't care about the dumb Watch, I'm not buying the 8 or the X, they're too big and clunky and the X is too p3rvy.

I'll buy the Apple iPhone 9 when it comes out, the Asian version that is smaller with the guts of the 8 but has no FaceP3rv tech.

Re: Waiting for the asian Apple 9

[that this is not und]

The iPhone 9 is probably already out in certain select asian markets.

The beginning of the end for the iPhone

[slapout]

I don't want and edge-to-edge screen; I'd rather have a physical home button.

Re:The beginning of the end for the iPhone

[UnknowingFool]

Then get an iPhone 8 or iPhone 8 Plus. Or any of the other models Apple still sells.

Re:The beginning of the end for the iPhone

[R3d M3rcury]

"...Now get off my lawn! These kids today with their edge-to-edge screens and virtual home buttons. Why, back in my day, we have a real home button and we were happy to have that!"

I don't mind not having a real home button. It was a pretty good idea back when Android tablets did it.

And I'd love an edge-to-edge screen...on my iPhone LE. Don't really need one with a phablet.

Re:The beginning of the end for the iPhone

[JohnFen]

It was a pretty good idea back when Android tablets did it.

I disagree. That lack still drives me nuts when I'm using a tablet.

$1000....

[Anonymous Coward]

Are you fucking kidding me right now? $1000?? For a PHONE?? One that I'm going to be forced to replace in two years?

So... $500/year... for the privilege of a phone.. with no headphone jack... and no home button... and no freedom... in a walled garden.

FUCK.. NO...

Re:$1000....

[R3d M3rcury]

Are you fucking kidding me right now? $1000?? For a PHONE?? One that I'm going to be forced to replace in two years?

I dunno. I'm still using my four year-old iPhone 5S, though it is just about at the end of it's life...

Simply swipe up from the bottom.

[thegarbz]

Apparently the new way of going home is to swipe up from the bottom. I like how he says it works across the system as if it's some revolutionary new idea. You know what else worked across the system,... the home button. You know what isn't intuitive, and what I realise is definitely not a better replacement for a universal and tactile button,... a frigging gesture.

Re:Simply swipe up from the bottom.

[rat_herder]

This was my first though as well. My old man has trouble with the most basic phone functionality so the home button is a pretty important universal action.

Re:Simply swipe up from the bottom.

[Powercntrl]

Apparently the new way of going home is to swipe up from the bottom.

I foresee a lot of pissed off Pokemon Go players.

Swiping up from the button???

[Anonymous Coward]

"... by swiping up from the button instead of hitting the button."
You misquoted The Verge: swipe up from the **bottom** instead of hitting the button; **there is no button**.

All Glass Phone?

[acvh]

Serious question: why is this considered a "good thing"? Other portable things that require durability aren't made of glass.

Re: All Glass Phone?

[that this is not und]

One of the most diabolical characters in Snow Crash carries a glass knife. Not easily detected with xrays. Maybe somebody at Apple wants to smuggle something in a fake hollow iPhone.

Re:All Glass Phone?

[rpstrong]

It's classier than plastic, and metal would interfere with the wireless charging.

[My current phone is a Nexus 5X, which replaced an Amazon Fire - whose glass back was shattered.]

If you're stuck on edge-to-edge

[f00zbll]

I see lots of people bitching about edge-to-edge or that OLED is old. The big thing is the hardware built for neural net. They dumped the old GPU to build one that can be used for DNN, image recognition, ARKit and MLKit. I hope they open up the neural engine in future releases of iOS. Think about all the uses. If you train a neural net to recognize foods, you could simply take a picture of your meal and record your calorie intake. You could take a picture of something and quickly search for it. The potential is huge.

Schiller's presentation is something to behold

[Lisandro]

I've never heard anyone trying to make sound swipe-to-unlock so magic and profound before.

3D dot projector, scanning objects in 3D

[perpenso]

If that 3D dot projector is available to apps that would be amazing. Your phone could scan and generate 3D models of objects. A mini LIDAR in some ways.

Re:3D dot projector, scanning objects in 3D

[AC-x]

Having used similar sensors (Structure, Kinect etc.) it's fun to play with but ultimately not high quality enough to do anything useful with.

Re:3D dot projector, scanning objects in 3D

[perpenso]

I'm coming from a computer vision background. Synthetic imagery containing depth information might help with object recognition and scene interpretation, even if the information is minimal. Although this does seem like something that would be very short range. Maybe helpful for things on the desk or table but not so much for looking around the room.

Re:3D dot projector, scanning objects in 3D

[perpenso]

My real hope is not that Apple necessarily opens up the projector making it accessible to developers but that the part is 3rd party and Apple's volume causes a price drop and/or increase in availability. And that this leads to it becoming a Raspberry Pi module.

Use your other iPhone configured only for passcode

[perpenso]

This is stupid, what happens if the face detection does not work?

This was covered in the demo. You pick up your other iPhone that is configured for a passcode only. ;-)

Is that really a display with a bite out of it?

[istartedi]

Is that really display surface with a bite out of it on the X? What are you supposed to do with the two little devil-horns at the top? Ads I guess. Yeah, nevermind. Devil-horn advertising will be the hot new trend.

Re:Is that really a display with a bite out of it?

[windwalkr]

Status indications. Which were already at the top of the screen, so this is actually a great way to save space.

Re:Is that really a display with a bite out of it?

[istartedi]

Yeah, but it looks like the background image goes "under" the camera. What happens when you go full screen to watch a video? If you get a black background with status on the horns, and the video is re-sized so that it's unobstructed; that's cool. I wouldn't want any of my actual video or picture being obstructed by the "bite" though. Either way, they can't legitimately claim that the front is "all display".

So no headphone jack, no touchid?

[AbRASiON]

Man what are they thinking, fuck that facial recognition business, just nope, nope nope.

The headphone jack is on what? 15? 20 billion devices across the planet, but Apple still going to be Apple.

The only surprising thing is Qi charging, presumably they're using the industry standard and therefore you don't need an Apple mat to charge, any Qi dock would do ?

Re: So no headphone jack, no touchid?

[that this is not und]

They took out touch ID because they were determined to remove the home button. Some thought they would move the touch ID to the case back, but Android already did that.. so they got all brave and just deleted it.

In the Apple design labs, they have special keyboards. The key often labeled 'delete' out in the mundane world is labeled the 'brave' key. Only the most courageous designers dare press it.

Re:So no headphone jack, no touchid?

[rat_herder]

Apple would be the only company i would even consider trusting with face unlock... And yeah as far as i could gather it's using the Qi Standard.

Apple X FAIL

[p51d007]

None of what theycall "Features" are really "features" Super Retina...unless you have super vision, you won't notice it No home "button"...other manufacturers ditched that long ago, not "new" The "build"...every smartphone is a rectangular slab of metal, plastic and glass. Face ID...can't wait for that to be SLOW, and HACKED Animogi...LMAO Camera...meet the NEW boss, same as the OLD boss Portrait mode...YEAH!!! more selfies!!! LOL A11 chipset....WOW! BENCHMARK dreamers!!! Nothing like having a 700HP engine, and you are stuck going 30mph Battery Life...LOL, battery savers make it seem like you get longer battery life. Good luck with the OLED sucking it up Wireless Charging...nothing like being LATE to the party, and, NOT even having YOUR OWN CHARGER stand ready. So, to sum it up, the "iconic" new iphone, is nothing more than last years model, with racing stripes, and a HIGHER price.

Re:Apple X FAIL

[rat_herder]

Did you even pause while spewing that out and wonder, why am i writing this? - Apple has always had great screens(usually industry leading in metrics that matter). This is a good thing. - face ID looked ok in the demo's - new portrait mode is higher quality with more options thanks to the depth sensing tech - new processor is apparently faster while getting longer battery life (2 hours according to apple) I think you want this phone! Just squeeze in 2-3 more johns each night and you can afford it.

Re:Apple X FAIL

[Anonymous Coward]

of course they have always had great screens, they buy them from Samsung.

Apple finally copies Microsoft!

[Prien715]

`After decades of stagnant innovation, Microsoft decided that 10 was the number that came after 8. Apple how obvious this great innovation was -- now with the iPhone X, they finally have!

Getting rid of 9 is such a greeat idea -- why doesn't every company try it?!

Re: Apple finally copies Microsoft!

[that this is not und]

Jobs is dead now, but during a bad acid trip he listened to 'Revolution 9' on side four of the White Album. Notice how they only came out with (classic) MacOS 9 after Jobs has been fired. Jobs' ghost still haunts the corridors of Apple, and there shall be no cursed version 9.

Re:Waitin for it to be unable to unlock for somebo

[Anonymous Coward]

> If they point it at your face, don't look at the screen and it won't unlock.

Courts have ruled that they can force you to fingerprint unlock, so assuredly they will rule themselves this power too. Also, you can bet that someone will write a python script that turns your face into some face that unlocks the phone (adds eyes, whatever), and then charge like 5k / unlock use.

iPhoneX too $ ...

[Anonymous Coward]

The Apple iPhoneX gives US citizens the feel of being an Indian citizen in Mumbai by longing to buy a "smartphone" that costs 1/2 their annual salary and does less than 99% of what a laptop can do for $200!

Hahahahaha

FaceID doesn't use the camera...

[Brannon]

and no part of it is operating "all the time".

Why do you want things you have no use for?

[Brannon]

Are you worried you'll get booted from the "I hate Apple" club if you admit you don't care about the headphone jack?

Re:Why do you want things you have no use for?

[sexconker]

There's no booting me from that club. I'm a founder.

Re:Why do you want things you have no use for?

[Brannon]

You clearly derive a lot of your self-worth from your membership in that club. A lot of people need the validation of their peers; tribalism is a human instinct. But, have you considered joining any clubs that aren't based on hate? Ultimately you'll be happier.

ComeFace

[seoras]

"Set your Apple Face ID to your comeface, so that if someone mugs you for your phone they at least have to wank you off first" - Frankie Boyle.

Apple Now Selling Rebranded Samsung Phones?

[Anonymous Coward]

Seriously. The iPhoneX sounds a lot like my Samsung phone.
I'm not anti-Apple, I use a Macbook Pro, but Apple seems to have nothing these days that Samsung hasn't done already. It's like Apple is just rebranding Samsung phones and selling at a higher price.

Re:Waitin for it to be unable to unlock for somebo

[JohnFen]

This. Although there are some biometric systems that aren't terribly fuzzy, they also aren't touchless and can't be done in a device the size of a smartphone.

Re:Waitin for it to be unable to unlock for somebo

[UnknowingFool]

I'm wondering what the margins on change would be. For example an changes due to injuries, minor/major facial surgery, swelling from allergies, etc.

So they released an Android Phone?

[MotherErich]

I'm constantly amazed by Apple's ability to release features being used by Android for years and people's ability to think it's the"next big thing." When will the fanboys realize they're blissfully ignorant to getting ripped off?

Why is no one trying to win?

[Anonymous Coward]

This is fucking hilarious. What are the leading complaints about new phones that generally make them so inferior to old phones? Lack of removable battery, and lack of buttons. So what does Apple do? Make their new phone suck as much as the newer Android phones that everyone is already complaining about, for how much they suck more than the old ones.

But at least taking the button away makes it cheaper! ;-)

I fucking swear, it's like every phone manufacturer is trying to lose. All it would take is one company to decide "hey, let's make phones that people will like instead of constantly complain about" and they could dominate the market.

Apple's phones are shit and Samsung's are now shit (after leading the pack for years). Who wants to not be shit? They are giving you the market on a platter, tripping over each other to be technological laughingstocks.

It's not $1000 for just a phone

[Anonymous Coward]

You're not looking at it right. It's not just $1000 for a phone. It's $1000 for a crappy phone that nobody would have tolerated 4 years ago in a $400 phone. That's something special.

This product has got to be a social experiment. You damn well know that some vice president at Apple is also in a psychology class and this is his class project.

CarPlay is Apple's answer to your hypothetical

[rsborg]

Actually, it's moving backwards in a life-critical way. You can safely unlock your iPhone while driving and then tell Siri to do stuff without looking at the screen. With this, to unlock it, you have to look at the screen. So unless Apple convinces people to let Siri always listen (creepy), this is likely to cause a lot of additional traffic accidents that otherwise would not have occurred. They really should have put a touch sensor on the back.

CarPlay is quite good at allowing reasonable access without looking at your screen. My recent car has it - it's quite useful.

WOW!

[MerlTurkin]

$1,000 for a phone? LOL! ROTFLMFAO! PT Barnum was right.

No Home Button

[JohnStock]

"Because of its edge-to-edge display, the iPhone has no place for a conventional home button" Oh really.. Android has managed to do it for years now. Buttons do not have to be physical. The servants of Apple will lap up anything.