Slashdot Mirror
"Maybe It's a Piece of Dust" (theoutline.com)
An anonymous reader shares a report: I was in the Grand Central Station Apple Store for a third time in a year, watching a progress bar slowly creep across my computer's black screen as my Genius multi-tasked helping another customer with her iPad. My computer was getting its third diagnostic test in 45 minutes. The problem was not that its logic board was failing, that its battery was dying, or that its camera didn't respond. There were no mysteriously faulty innerworkings. It was the spacebar. It was broken. And not even physically broken -- it still moved and acted normally. But every time I pressed it once, it spaced twice. "Maybe it's a piece of dust," the Genius had offered. The previous times I'd been to the Apple Store for the same computer with the same problem -- a misbehaving keyboard -- Geniuses had said to me these exact same nonchalant words, and I had been stunned into silence, the first time because it seemed so improbable to blame such a core problem on such a small thing, and the second time because I couldn't believe the first time I was hearing this line that it was not a fluke. But this time, the third time, I was ready. "Hold on," I said. "If a single piece of dust lays the whole computer out, don't you think that's kind of a problem?"
Frist!
You were probably holding it wrong and let the dust in.
Once you had well qualified, well payed personal, pretty much everywhere.
Now you have "put the Engineer hat" underplayed personal, using the Chewbacca defence.
For a product costing more every "release".
Welcome to the current economy.
He meant to say Apple Pixie Dust!
Mac laptops are designed for a very specific operating environment -- sitting in a coffee shop and "working on your screenplay" while desperately hoping the cute hipster girl at the next table over asks you what you're working on, so you can casually mention your screenplay. You probably weren't doing that, thus it's your fault.
But holy crap, the touch-bar is a bad bit of UI design. I'm constantly accidentally triggering it. When I'm typing it offers spelling tweaks, so if my finger grazes the touchbar I wind up changing the word I typed unintentionally. I hit the escape (or cancel) button frequently. It's a nightmare. I was curious to try it, but now I wish there was some way I could switch back.
I purchased the second Macintosh model (Fat Mac) in college and had Macs up until about 10 years ago.
So it is with some sadness that I say Apple is no longer special. Whatever Karma Jobs left behind has worn off and now Apple is merely another Tech Company.
Their idea Vault is empty, their commitment to be "insanely great" has waned, and investors are on the verge of turning management into just another, "beat the quarterly earnings forecast" collection of MBAs and bean counters.
I feel privileged to have lived in the time of it's creation, ascension, and total domination. I fear that I will also live to see its demise in the manner of so many alternative computer companies before it.
When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
Did they find the fault, or have you made three visits and each time been left with a faulty computer? Were you abandoned with a still broken computer? The summary seems incomplete.
Is this a warning that we need lemon laws for computers as well as cars? At what point does Apple recognize that a repeatable and verifiable problem, even if intermittent, requires a product replacement?
The audacity of Apple giving some minimum-wage tech schlub the title of "Genius" says *everything* about Apple, its branding, and the customers it serves.
-Styopa
Slashdot is a tabloid.
If a single glass of water dumped on it keeps lays the whole computer out, don’t you think that’s some sort of problem?
Um, no. Most failures of most systems are caused by a "single" thing.
Man who apparently breaks the keyboards on all the Mac Book Pros that he has ever owned is upset that all three times he has taken his new Mac Book pro into the Apple Store, the people there have offered him the same solution.
BUY MACALLAN WHISKEY
Finally, on the third trip, he allows them to fix the issue and bitches that it is a more involved process now than when he broke the keyboards on his previous versions.
BUY MACALLAN WHISKEY
And you keep buying MacBook Pros for a decade; good job!
-SaNo
It sounds like they need training on cleaning out the dust. There's a special training program at Fort Bliss for that!
"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it." - K
“You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.”
Only Apple has the courage to remove the dust filters.
Support Right To Repair Legislation.
Sometime around 2005, I bought my first Thinkpad - second hand because they were pretty expensive machines - from a guy who had bought it overseas. I used it everyday as my work/home machine for about three years including travelling all over the world and taking it out on various work sites.
One day, the left shift key on the worn-smooth keyboard fell off. The clip had worked its way lose and the key no longer had a proper detent. I thought I had had a pretty good run with the thing, but figured I'd see what a spare part would cost. To my amazement, the machine was still under IBM's global warranty. I rang them up on the toll free number, gave them the serial number, and asked if the keyboard was still covered. They said the parts were, but not labour, and asked if I would be able to change the keyboard myself. About 3 days later a new keyboard was couriered to me. I screwed it into place and got another year of use out of it before it just became too slow.
I guess you payed for it in the price back then, but that is how you do customer service.
Honestly, it's kind of amazing how quickly it was picked up by all different web sites and blogs! I've probably read 5 different discussions on the original article already this morning.
The thing is? The "Genius" used the wrong terminology, in my opinion, which made things sound worse than they really are. A speck of dust is most assuredly NOT enough to jam up one of the new Apple keyboards. CRUMBS, however, from people eating by the machine? Absolutely possible.
I had one of these "New Macbooks" when it first came out. Ordered the "high spec" configuration to test it out at work, using it as my own personal work computer, to get a feel for what it was and wasn't really capable of doing for us. (We have a lot of highly mobile employees who care more about a computer being lightweight and easy to carry around, plus long battery life, than raw CPU power. So it was potentially a good fit, vs. the Macbook Air 13" machines we've issued to most of them for years.)
I really despised the keyboard design on it. Practically no key travel and just too easy to mistype things when I wasn't purposely typing extra slow. The 2017 edition has a slightly revised variation of the original keyboard and I tried that out at an Apple Store. IMO, still pretty awful, though MARGINALLY better tactile feel.
I finally resold the thing after concluding it just wasn't enough of a full-fledged notebook computer for our needs. (I'd really just classify it as Apple's high-fashion/style idea of a netbook.) But I never had sticking keys on it. With that little bit of key travel though, it's clear to me you're going to have to take extra care to keep this machine clean. (Wash your hands before typing on it if you were just eating some toast or bread, for example.) It won't take much to get some crumbs or grains of sand or salt or what-not in there, messing up one of the small scissor type key-switches under the key-caps.
I'll also say though, in Apple's defense? I've been using one of the latest models of external keyboards that's wireless, with the built-in rechargeable batteries that charge when you connect it via USB. After typing on that one quite a bit at home, still no real key issues. I try to keep it as clean as I can, but don't go to extrodinary lengths to do so either. Maybe the external ones just hold up a little bit better, or it's the fact they're not getting taken around so many different places where the environments aren't always as clean? Whatever the case, it's worked as well as can be expected. Still dislike the limited key travel on the new designs though, vs. what they had previously.
"Key bounce error".
When you depress a key, any key, the contacts do not perfectly connect; they bounce. Electrical engineers fight key bounce error — basically by trial and error — with debounce by adjusting the computer to read the key input then wait. If there are other bounces within a few milliseconds, they are ignored. Then the computer starts looking for keyboard inputs, again.
When keys go bad— one way that keys go bad is the contacts don't contact-and-release as quickly as expected, and, the computer reads a second key input.
That's why, on some keyboards, the "space bar" goes bad, or the 'E' or the "T" or "A" or "O" or "N"...
"Bouncing is the tendency of any two metal contacts in an electronic device to generate multiple signals as the contacts close or open; debouncing is any kind of hardware device or software that ensures that only a single signal will be acted upon for a single opening or closing of a contact."
If Bill Gates bought out Apple and became it's new Steve Jobs?
Those transparent keyboards that were last sold something like 15 years ago?
The touch bar is just the opening volley. Meanwhile Apple is doing the boiled frog thing with key travel, slowly getting users used to less and less key travel.
Eventually, they will probably replace the entire keyboard with a touch-board of some kind and expect that users will simply adjust. I think they've lost the plot somewhere.
Note this is not my original idea -- Merlin Mann mentioned it on the Back to Work podcast and I think he's spot on. And he's a huge Apple fan.
Error 404 - Sig Not Found
What kind of dust was it? Cheeto, brake, nose candy? Maybe you were simply traveling too fast? Left somewhere in a hurry? My bet is just that the guy had no clue and just wanted to dust you off.
Maybe it's the water you spilled on it that you don't want to admit? Or maybe Geniuses aren't actually thoroughly trained in all computer hardware diagnostics as you seem to think they are? These aren't typically electrical engineers. They aren't dumb, but they aren't likely able to tear down a computer, find and fix a broken connection, and put it back together again. You're just as likely to run into the Genius crew moonlighting as a McD cashier.
I loved my 17" MacBook Pro.
I liked my 2015 15.4" MacBook Pro.
I hate my 2017 15.4" MacBook Pro.
It is the shiniest piece of shit I have ever had the displeasure of trying to use. The charger has failed twice, taking out one of my USB-C ports in the process (required a logic board swap). The keyboard has failed twice- the first time they replaced the entire upper half of the machine, the second time they figured out it was a tiny piece of hair stuck under the space bar and were able to clean it out (dunno how, the keys are so fragile you'll break them if you try to pop them off).
Then the SSD died. Twice. I lost all my data both times (apparently the adapter you need to recover data from the logic board isn't easy to find- our Apple store doesn't have one, so they considered it a lost cause right away and replaced the logic board each time). Then the discrete GPU went, at which point they gave me a whole new machine- which is already showing signs of a bad dGPU chipset (corrupt graphics under load, machine freezes, have to forcibly restart it) and occasionally has keyboard issues too, likely due to "dust" and/or hair.
I have rapidly come to learn that I can no longer rely on Apple hardware. They care so much about form over function they forgot to build a usable machine. Thankfully I've moved most of my critical tasks to other (non-Apple) machines, which is something I thought I'd never have to do when I bought into their ecosystem around '03. I don't know what else I'm supposed to do though when they're not manufacturing any sort of machine I can rely on or has the specifications I'd expect from a $3500 computer.
I guess that's what happens when the bean counters take over and turn everything into a disposable appliance... Oh well.
Every problem is caused by a piece of dust. This is like when we go into Costco and a food item that's usually available can't be found and when an employee is asked about it the answer is, "That's a seasonal item." I'm sure that's what the managers tell employees to say in answer to such a question. We get that answer when asking about canned mushrooms. Sams Club has them, why not Costco? After all, mushrooms are grown in the dark year round and are available pretty much year round in all grocery stores. Maybe it's the cans that are only made in the summer for Costco's canned mushrooms.
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell
The "Genius" (heh, yeah, right) shows his complete lack of understanding on how something as simple as a switch works. Hell, there aren't even any active components in it. It's just 2 conductive surfaces coming into contact. A crumb might prevent that altogether, or make it so that you would have to press harder in order to get your character. Getting *TWO* characters sounds to me like a cracked trace. This used to happen on heavily used mouse buttons. When you press down on the button lightly, it closes the switch. If you keep pressing and increase the force slightly, it flexes the PCB which expands the crack enough to break the current flow. Then, as you release the pressure, it reconnects again until you completely disengage the switch.
Either way, the solution is simple: REPLACE THE KEYBOARD!
Also, what they hell kind of "diagnostic" are they running that displays a progress bar in a non-interactive way? If there is a problem with the keyboard, you need to interact with it to test it!
Yeah. Kind of an "auto-fire" button. Twice as fast, guaranteed to wipe out all enemies.
I can't comment on recent ones, but I have a 2011 17" MBP in the kitchen doing light duty. I picked it up cheap because it wouldn't boot. The problem was a bad keyboard, which I replaced.
The keyboard, at least on the old MBPs, feels very solid, but when you get the replacement it's incredibly thin and flimsy; the metal body is little more than foil. You could easily fold it in half like a piece of paper. It's basically a flimsy dome switch keyoboard with a mechanical gizmos added to the key to give it a crisper feel. This also means its unlikely to be a piece of dust causing your problems -- unless the dust was put there in the factory. The business parts of the switch are safely under a silicone membrane.
What give the installed keyboard its solid feel is that it is screwed into the very sturdy aluminum laptop chassis with dozens of tiny screws. What you feel when you type on it is not the solidity of the keyboard, but of the heavy sheet of aluminum it is very firmly attached to. This is how the engineers got the machine to feel sturdy and light at the same time.
My advice is if the key seems mechanically good but doesn't register, first test an external keyboard to make sure it's not some kind of software issue, then replace the whole keyboard. It's not a particularly complicated repair, but be advised the screws are tiny, about the size of coarsely ground coffee. A fine jeweler's phillips head screwdriver, strong magnifier, and a large expanse of uncluttered workspace is recommended. The screws are small enough you can't just put them into the hole. You have to nudge them into the hole and hope they go in business end first, which takes several tries.
Also: given the severe abuse keyboards get in normal use, I recommend using an external keyboard whenever you can; that way you can just toss the keyboard when it breaks. Only use the laptop keyboard when you're on the road. This also gives you the chance to get a keyboard that you really like.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
If you see one of those white opaque keyboards that followed the transparents buy it, its far better than anything Apple has offered in many years.
It's not dust; it's spores that have "contaminated" the keyboard enclosure.
You see, spores (such as from Psilocybe cubensis) are the basis of the universe.
They are everywhere, sometimes manifested in our physical plane, but always existing
everywhere on the mycoplane of Space. At the lowest level, biology is physics, and
physics recapitulates biology -- they are the same thing. It's all quantum, you see.
Your problem is that you've got a stuck spore. You need to energize it properly,
and it will instantly transmit (quantum spore teleport) the key's signal to any part
of the UNICODE. Your brain will function as the quantum sentience that directs
the action, so that instead of a SPACE, you'll get the correct symbol pressed.
(This is related to why sometimes electronics gear that has not been stored
properly for a while will spew out "dust" when you fire it up, or why sometimes
it seems like there are dead cockroaches or mouse turds inside the box.)
SOLUTION:
The Genius Bar is actually stocked with dehydrated tardigrades.
If the moisture (liquid spill incursion) sensor in your Mac has not been triggered,
an Apple representative can insert a tardigrade into your machine along with an
eyedropper of water. Using horizontal DNS zone transfer (I think that's what it's
called; something to do with binding, anyway) the tardigrade will interact with
and energize the spore, curing your SPACE key bounce problem. This is known as
a "key de-bounce" procedure. If your tech doesn't seem to know all this just
have him look it up in the knowledge base; it's standard.
Just make sure he doesn't hold the tardigrade wrong, or your laptop will
start spinning and twisting, ad the end result will not be pretty.
I paid $6 to learn all this, by the way.
Remember when MacBook keyboards were actually repairable? A few seconds without tools and anyone could swap it out.
Now they're fused into the "top case" which is effectively half of the computer chassis... also with the battery epoxied in. So you're faced with a lengthy full-disassembly repair plus a very expensive part for any exhausted battery or bad keyboard. You know, TWO OF THE MOST COMMON PARTS YOU NEED TO REPLACE ON A LAPTOP.
Not to mention that the new keyboards are shit... no key travel whatsoever, it's like pounding your fingers against solid brick. But apparently such a "courageous" move to a shit keyboard was NECESSARY because "OMG THINNER!". Because apparently everyone cares that their laptop is 0.01oz lighter at the expense of usability, practicality, battery life, performance... and pay no attention to the 10oz of adapters you need to carry around now because you lost all your ports, which cost $30-60/ea and get lost frequently (Apple thanks you for your continued patronage every month).
I'd just like to compliment you for understanding the difference between training and intelligence.
Don’t have the inclination to look back on any mistake
Like Cain, I now behold this chain of events that I must break
In the fury of the moment I can see the Master’s hand
In every leaf that trembles, in every grain of sand
Bob Dylan
Only rich people can afford to buy junk.
Goods that are valuable last a long time and that usually means repairable. Disposable is typically synonymous with irreparable. Apple hardware (I'm looking at you, Mac Pro full size tower) used to be repairable, using very high quality stock parts. Their last great laptop, the 17 inch, similarly was similarly repairable.
However repairable also means you can modify it, upgrade it and extend its value. Apple has stopped being that company. Their repair program is 'throw it out and buy another'. However, they'll promote themselves as a green company despite this nonsense.
My Mac hardware is ageing. I'm waiting to see what happens when the new tower is released and after decades of being their customer starting with the Apple 2, I may well admit the truth -- they abandoned me and what I consider to be good hardware.
---- The above post was generated by the Turing Institute. Maybe.
Home Depot sells some pretty good rubber feet, not too expensive either.
When you sympathize with stupidity, you start thinking like an idiot.
What they are really trying to say is, "stop eating over your keyboard. You've got so much cruft in there, I'm surprised any of your keys work. Dried Pepsi, cat hair, and Cornflakes are not good for your keyboard."
Lodragan Draoidh
The more you explain it, the more I don't understand it. - Mark Twain
I really wanna know how the Genius replied to your question!
I tend to rant.
An Apple genius is by no means a technician. Their job is to get rid of you as fast and as effectively as possible. Apple can't be recalling keyboards because of cheap, unreliable design. Buy a PC
In fairness, when manufacturers lock their bootloaders and sign their firmware with certificates Google does not have access to, what the fuck is Google supposed to do about it?
That's a serious question and I expect a serious answer.
APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
It's more likely the problem isn't a piece of dust, but rather lazy or incompetent "geniuses".
Firstly
From TFA: "The tradeoff for enhanced hygiene and the slimmer profile is that scissor-switch keys are more difficult to separate from their base than rubber-domed ones, but it's not impossible."
Side note, a cat can do this very quickly. Like, five or six keys in less than a second. I've witnessed this personally. I even managed to get most of the keys back on.
Secondly, although he doesn't specifically say, I strongly suspect the root cause wasn't "a piece of dust". He describes the problem as one (1) press of the space bar (where do astronauts go for drinks? never mind) consistently causes two (2) spaces. I'm sorry, that's not mechanical, it's electrical. There's something wrong with the circuitry. Were it a mechanical problem, the symptoms would not be so precisely reproduceable.
As someone else mentioned, "it's dust" is just something the "geniuses" say to appease the unwashed masses. It should be taken with a ... well it shouldn't be believed at all. These are Mac "geniuses" we're talking here.
And finally, if you buy an electronic device that's not meant to be repaired, don't be surprised when repairs are costly, or impossible. There's a lot to be said for (a) staying one or two generations behind the bleeding edge, and (b) buying your products with reliability and maintainability in mind. That is, if your objective is to get work done. If your objective is to own the thinnest laptop on earth, your mileage may vary.
Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
Yeah... as much as I am an Apple fan, I really hate my new iMac's keyboard.
Don't get me wrong-- I love the built-in battery, lightning charging, integrated numeric keypad... and the shape isn't bad.
But without auto-correct I would never stand a chance at anything I type being understandable... and the moron that eliminated the bottom-left function key should be shot. The keys and layout are a huge step backwards in typing accuracy from the original cordless keyboard with two AA batteries.
Does it do it when you plug in a USB keyboard? That would be fun to find out.
... as my Genius multi-tasked helping another customer with her iPad. ... "Maybe it's a piece of dust," the Genius had offered. ... Geniuses had said ...
I know "Genius" is Apple's name for their customer service people, but you and they degrade the meaning of the word by using it this way. I'm pretty sure these people are in no way geniuses - and, this "diagnosis" of a piece of dust on the motherboard certainly confirms that.
It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
Who is the Fool? The Fool, or the Fool who follows him?
4 AA batteries actually (on the original). And the keyboard consumed them like there was no tomorrow. Nice keyboard, but lousy on the power consumption side.
I chose to end my comments, not with a rim shot, but a long decaying F#7sus4
Seriously, stop calling these people "geniuses." They're not. They're Apple users. About as far from a genius as one can get. They've been through some sort of Apple training programme, no doubt, but that doesn't make them any smarter than anyone else. They still can't handle a mouse with more than one button, an escape key, or any of Apple's other trademarks designed for it's dumbed-down user base.
Either buy a decent machine or stop your whining.
... to the same shop with the same computer with the same problem three times in a row, then something is seriously wrong.
Or, as they say: The difference between something that CAN break, and something that CAN NOT POSSIBLY break is, that when something that can not possibly break breaks, it's impossible to get at and fix.
DUST BUSTERS!
tone
Er, yeah. That could be why they turn up in thrift stores.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
Send white helicopters!! One of them is in open rebellion!!
Requiem for the American Dream
$15 / hour isn't that much more...
Nearly vomited at the 10+ years of accumulated nastiness and threw the keyboard out post-haste.
I see my shadow changing, stretching up and over me...
Meanwhile, his kid / ex / obnoxious coworker is giggling in delight over the fun they've caused with a simple "spacebar produces two spaces" keyboard mapping when the author wasn't looking.
Chelloveck
I give up on debugging. From now on, SIGSEGV is a feature.
- The laptop was working normally apart from the spacebar
- ...lays the whole computer out
Pick one.
- A piece of dust is capable of rendering a butterfly switch nonfunctional. The key won't click, and it won’t register whatever command it’s supposed to be typing. It’s effectively dead
- Or, apparently, make a key register twice for each keypress
Again, pick one.
I don't have a model M, but I do have an ancient IBM PS\2 from the early 90's heavy enough to be used as a lethal weapon. Clickity clack clack - it's a dream. One day adapters will not be enough, but until then, this is one of the best keyboards ever made - it refuses to die - and I'm not giving it up until I have no choice.
Brought to you by Carl's Junior.
You're probably misunderstood: it's you. ... dust...
You are a miserable piece of SH*T for bothering Apple with you stupid complaints.
This is Apple's way of saying: buy a new computer already, you cheap little piece of
Maybe it's just a piece of crap instead?
"I'm not anti-anything, I'm anti-everything, it fits better." - Sole
Genius: "Maybe it's a piece of dust."
msmash: "Or maybe it's a piece of shit."
No, your children are not the special ones. Nor are your pets.
Apple "Genius" you say?
Science is also a branch of philosophy, and logical positivism is a more-or-less valid view. It's not a currently popular view, but for most purposes one can indeed reconcile empiricism and statements which cannot be empirically tested: simply consider the unproven statement to be false. There are some downsides to that idea but it certainly cuts down on the number of Russel's Teapots one is obligated to believe in.
Generally, we would expect some degree of correlation for any two descriptions of the universe. Given the contradictory epistemological frameworks, it's not really possible for these to be meaningful coincidences.
Those who advocate genocide deserve every protection afforded by law, and none afforded by common human decency.
Except in my case it was the left mouse button, which would click multiple times a lot of the time. It turned out to be a fatigued leaf spring in the microswitch for that button. After disassembling the switch, I bent the spring back to its normal shape and reinserted it. Problem solved. It wasn't an easy fix. The switch is tiny and the spring was even tinier. Took me 20 minutes to get it back in.
In fairness, when manufacturers lock their bootloaders and sign their firmware with certificates Google does not have access to, what the fuck is Google supposed to do about it? That's a serious question and I expect a serious answer.
Fine. They could have simply told the manufacturers from the start to make sure people could update their phones without a problem.
But that would have gotten in the way of stuffing all kinds of shit into Android phones, so nobody would have made and sold any Android devices.
So ultimately, no they couldn't have done anything, because the customer doesn't matter (at least to anyone but Apple).
Sorry if that isn't the answer you wanted to hear.
Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
The external Apple keyboard I purchased is being used with a different laptop at home (my 15" retina Macbook Pro), just so I can use it like a desktop with its lid closed, attached to a couple of external monitors, plus that keyboard and a regular mouse.
I don't like the feel of the latest model Apple keyboards as much as earlier models, but yes - it's in Apple's defense to say that after making a lot of use of this new rechargeable one, it's still working properly and would be a perfectly fine product for someone who doesn't take issue with the (subjective) key feel when typing on it.
And for what it's worth? I'm not sure we know what one of these keyboards will do when the rechargeable battery inside it wears out? It seems lie it may continue to work just fine as a wired USB keyboard, since I can use it with the USB cable attached to it.
So ultimately, no they couldn't have done anything
That was kind of my point.
the customer doesn't matter (at least to anyone but Apple)
I find it amusing that you think the consumer matters to Apple. That remark makes me question how serious you were actually trying to be, but if Apple cared about the consumer we wouldn't have nonstandard drive interfaces and soldered-in RAM in Macs, the Mac Mini wouldn't have taken a massive step toward the garbage heap in 2013, and the Mac Pro would still be a proper tower.
Sorry if that isn't the answer you wanted to hear.
~ Sent from my MacBookPro11,3 running OS X Yosemite
APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
So ultimately, no they couldn't have done anything
That was kind of my point.
Well, you clearly didn't understand my point then.
Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
No, I got your point; did you miss the part where you, yourself, implied that no manufacturer would have touched it had they locked it down from day one? We seem to agree on that point, which would have made Android a non-starter. In short, there's nothing Google could have done to prevent this situation from day one and see any sort of market success with Android. That was my point and it was very strongly implied in yours.
APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
Causality actually does mean that there cannot be causeless events, and nothing in quantum physics changes that (so far). Your description of black holes is not particularly accurate. A black hole is 'merely' an extremely curved region of spacetime. PBS has a series on YouTube called 'Space Time' that will doubtless be informative, unless you'd rather not have facts interfere with your speculation.
Those who advocate genocide deserve every protection afforded by law, and none afforded by common human decency.
No, I got your point;
No you didn't. My point wasn't that Google "simply had to" kill its uncle because his inheritance was the only way tp get rich.
Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
Then, perhaps, restate your point more clearly? I'm not gonna sit here and play guessing games with you.
APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
Attach them with some 3M VHB double-sided stickers.