Flat Earther Plans To Launch Homemade Manned Rocket (apnews.com)

walterbyrd shares an Associated Press report: Self-taught rocket scientist "Mad" Mike Hughes is a 61-year-old limo driver who's spent the last few years building a steam-powered rocket out of salvage parts in his garage. His project has cost him $20,000, which includes Rust-Oleum paint to fancy it up and a motor home he bought on Craigslist that he converted into a ramp. His first test of the rocket will also be the launch date -- Saturday, when he straps into his homemade contraption and attempts to hurtle over the ghost town of Amboy, California. He will travel about a mile at a speed of roughly 500 mph. "I don't believe in science," said Hughes, whose main sponsor for the rocket is Research Flat Earth. "I know about aerodynamics and fluid dynamics and how things move through the air, about the certain size of rocket nozzles, and thrust. But that's not science, that's just a formula. There's no difference between science and science fiction."
UPDATE (11/25/17): His first launch atttempt had to be cancelled after his homemade launcher broke down in his driveway.

Comments

OMG

[Chrisq]

OMG will someone stop him from this suicide attempt?

Re:OMG

[Anonymous Coward]

No.

Re:OMG

[Kokuyo]

To what end? At this point he's jut a waste of space.

Re:OMG

[gtvr]

I wonder if the mechanics of landing are just formulas or "science fiction"

Re:OMG

[I'm New Around Here]

Stop him, hell. I just donated to his kickstarter.

Re:OMG

[CeasedCaring]

Why? This is Darwinism at work (not that he believes in that, either!)

Re:OMG

[Anonymous Coward]

I agree with your sentiments, though I argue it's suicide. Suicide is the intentional taking of ones life. I don't think this guy has thought ahead far enough to realize that if he gets going 500 mph, the landing is going to kill him. Hopefully the people around him aren't so callous as the other respondents to your post, and somebody stops him in the off chance this thing works.

Re:OMG

[Baleet]

Why? Everyone has a right to go to hell in his own way.

Re:OMG

[Revek]

Why? Let fate sort it out. What I want to know is how this is going to prove anything. If only there were some sort of method or process by where he could express a theory and then test that theory and refine it until he could make a reproducible conclusion.

Re:OMG

[msauve]

So someone else doesn't have to clean up the gory mess.

Re:OMG

[s13g3]

But... Space going to space can't wait.
Space space wanna go to space yes please space. Space space...

SpaaaaaaAAaaaaaaAaaaace!

On a more serious note, never forget Hanlon's razor, and feel free to let the willfully ignorant thin out their own herd, as long as they don't hurt anyone else in their quest to shuffle their mortal coil.

Re:OMG

[bigwheel]

TFA says that he plans to open two parachutes, and presumably float to safety. For those old enough to remember, this is not very different from what Evil Knievel did when jumping the Snake River canyon. EK had to know that there was no way he'd land it on 2 wheels. The difference was that EK made a lot of money with his "failed" stunt.

Re:OMG

[AmiMoJo]

He might injure someone else in the attempt.

Re:OMG

[rastos1]

OMG will someone stop him from this suicide attempt?

See, this is what we call "a hypothesis". It says: Mike Hughes dies as result of his experiment. It's a fine hypothesis. Testable. I suggest to perform the experiment and then test whether the hypothesis matches the observed result.

Re:OMG

[Aaden42]

Shhh... Nobody tell him. I'll make the popcorn.

Re:OMG

[JackieBrown]

And the person he lands on? Is that Darwinism at work?

Re:OMG

[cyberchondriac]

I don't think he'll make it to the moon. ;)

Re:OMG

[Amouth]

Nahh,, lets just go ahead and nominate him for a Darwin

Re:OMG

[Chrisq]

And the person he lands on? Is that Darwinism at work?

If he lands on the guy who decided not to stop him because it's Darwinism at work then yes

Re:OMG

[Applehu Akbar]

He may believe the Earth is flat, but his flight will help convince the rest of us about Darwin.

Re: OMG

[peragrin]

My personal favorite theory is if we take all the people who believe apollo was faked to the moon, would they actually walk outside without a space suit?

I really want to test that one and one other.

How fast do bodies breakdown on the lunar surface in the Sun? It is cold but solar radiation will chemically break down the bodies in a given time frame.

Re:OMG

[thomst]

Baleet asked:

Why? Everyone has a right to go to hell in his own way.

Unfortunately, that's not true.

I'm a very strong advocate of individual liberty. In my view, adult humans ought to have the fundamental right to engage in any behavior they choose, so long as no higher animal or other human who has not explicitly agreed in advance to participate is harmed in the process.

That includes the right to kill yourself in elaborate, expensive fashion; sell your body for sex, science, food, or any other purpose; appear naked in public; or vote for the most loathsome candidate imaginable, among many other possible choices.

I say "unfortunately", because the law places limitations on or outright forbids most of those things. It's flatly illegal in the United States to commit suicide (other than with medical assistance in Oregon - and there you have to have been diagnosed with a terminal illness, and are not permitted to, for instance, use a firearm or a steam-powered rocket for the purpose). Other than in Nevada, it's forbidden to engage in prostitution. With the exception of certain beach areas and on private property screened from public view, you can't legally be naked in public. And so on.

I deeply disagree with those restrictions - but they exist, and there are sometimes Draconian penalties for violating them.

Having said that, this case appears to be one of a man who's determined to win a Darwin Award - or a clever hoaxster, who's doing a bang-up job of trolling the media. Including Slashdot ...

Re: OMG

[Anonymous Coward]

The article mentions a parachute landing.

Re:OMG

[RavenLrD20k]

I think it was Jack Napier who said it best:

If you're gonna make an omelette, you have crack a few skulls.

...or something like that. I just remember he smashed a porcelain mask when he said it.

Re: OMG

[DontBeAMoran]

My personal favorite theory is if we take all the people who believe apollo was faked to the moon, would they actually walk outside without a space suit?

I don't see the logic in your theory.

Do you think that people who believe the moon landing was faked think there is oxygen on the moon? There's no correlation here.

Re:OMG

[K. S. Kyosuke]

Now he's a Flat-Earther. He's merely about to become a flat Earther.

Re:OMG

[gnick]

...the guy who decided not to stop him...

I'm guessing that guy is you, me, and pretty well everyone else.

Re:OMG

[Verdatum]

Right? What if he crashes into the dome-shaped projection screen upon that the government has somehow projected the fake image of the moon for all of recorded and oral history?!?!?

Re:OMG

[K. S. Kyosuke]

And the person he lands on? Is that Darwinism at work?

This reminded me of the advice that when hiring people, you should divide the CVs into two piles and throw one of them away. Because you don't wan't to hire people with bad luck, of course. You want people with bad luck to live?

Re: OMG

[Anonymous Coward]

Does anyone have his DOB? I need it for the life insurance I'm taking out on him.

Re:OMG

[GameboyRMH]

It's a ghost town, ever heard of "sky burial?"

Re:OMG

[Anonymous Coward]

It reminds me too much of this documentary:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bq7gkQ7UkzI

Re:OMG

[edtice1559]

I assume you haven't RTFA. He has actually done something similar before. And it's not really a rocket. It's shaped like a rocket but he's basically going to launch himself into the air with a jet of steam and parachute down. The vehicle will crash. It's not really impressive other than having built it from scrap. The project itself has nothing to do with flat earth.

Re:OMG

[fisted]

Is an altitude of one mile even enough to visually confirm earth is or is not flat?

Re: OMG

[Anonymous Coward]

Do you think that people who believe the moon landing was faked think there is oxygen on the moon? There's no correlation here.

Since the moon landing was faked, and NASA's capabilities have since then actually diminished, how could they possibly be on the Moon and not on a sound stage / movie set? Surely the "trip" they took to the Moon must have been faked...

Re:OMG

[Archangel Michael]

Its obvious that a lot of people don't know how science or Darwinism actually works. He's bred, the genes are passed on. He has proven he is fit enough to procreate, which is all Darwin suggests.

Misapplying Darwinian theory is one of the reasons people don't believe science.

Re: OMG

[Anonymous Coward]

All the Zoroastrians that I have ever met are much smarter than this guy. And I don't really know any other cultures that practise sky burials

Re:OMG

[Desler]

Because ghost towns are usually fully of people?

Re:OMG

[mjm1231]

Unfortunately, that's not true.

I'm a very strong advocate of individual liberty. In my view, adult humans ought to have the fundamental right to engage in any behavior they choose, so long as no higher animal or other human who has not explicitly agreed in advance to participate is harmed in the process.

This is so broad a statement that it precludes any adult human from defecating, or, arguably, exhaling, without getting a petition signed by 6 billion other people. Every action you take has the potential to cause some harm. The hard question is always where to draw the line, and blanket pronouncements like this are useless for making those decisions.

Re: OMG

[Anonymous Coward]

Do you think that people who believe the moon landing was faked think there is oxygen on the moon? There's no correlation here.

Ha. They'd be dead from the radiation in the Van Allen Belts long before they got there!

Re:OMG

[Anonymous Coward]

He insists on being a flat earth wormer. *badum ch*

Re:OMG

[David_Hart]

And the person he lands on? Is that Darwinism at work?

This reminded me of the advice that when hiring people, you should divide the CVs into two piles and throw one of them away. Because you don't wan't to hire people with bad luck, of course. You want people with bad luck to live?

What if you, the hiring manager, is the one with bad luck?

Do you decide to take the "good luck" pile? Or maybe the "bad luck" pile hoping that will cancel out your bad luck...

Or... do you realize that you are screwed anyway because HR advertised the job with impossible requirements at an arbitrarily low salary....

BTW: This guy has already done a few things that could have easily killed him. The fact that he is still alive seem to indicate that he at least has some "blind luck" on his side.

Re:OMG

[Jeremi]

If it turns out that the moon is a flat disk attached to a black ceiling several thousand feet overhead, then he's got a pretty good chance of getting there. The tricky part will be the moon landing -- turning the rocket upside down (while simultaneously grappling it to the moon's surface so as not to fall back to Earth) won't be easy.

Re: OMG

[Anonymous Coward]

I understand the appeal of wanting to build a rocket ... or even just something that could be mistaken for one.

But if this guy honestly wanted to prove it disprove the flat Earth hypothesis, there are much more effective options. A plane flies much higher than his rocket, is readily available, and makes it much easier to take pictures. A weather balloon is trivial to outfit with a camera. Elementary school kids have successfully done this. And honestly, just observing coastal islands from shore is an easy experiment to accurately determine the diameter of the Earth

Re:OMG

[zifn4b]

OMG will someone stop him from this suicide attempt?

Hopefully someone will report him to the authorities. I would imagine you need some type of permit to do this because what if his contraption lands on someone's house.

Re:OMG

[Anonymous Coward]

OMG will someone stop him from this suicide attempt?

Why?

Re:OMG

[Anonymous Coward]

He is 61 and most likely a Trump supporter. I say Godspeed dickhead, don't forget your helmet.

Re:OMG

[spun]

Steam rockets are still rockets. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

Re:OMG

[budgenator]

If he changes the water for 100% hydrogen peroxide he might get high enough to see the edge. The real problem is when your up that high, the mind controll rays are real strong; if your not wearing at least 3 layers of tin foil they'll get through and all you'll remember is seeing round not flat!

Re:OMG

[Anonymous Coward]

OMG will someone stop him from this suicide attempt?

Flat-Earther? I'd wager he voted for Twitler too. We can't get rid of them fast enough AFAIC.

Re: OMG

[Anonymous Coward]

That would be insurance fraud. You can only take out life insurance on yourself or on anybody you have a financial interest in. Normally that means you're their dependant or they owe you money

Re:OMG

[darthsilun]

Why? This is Darwinism at work (not that he believes in that, either!)

Has he already had children? If so, then no, he's already passed his defective genes on.

Re:OMG

[Anonymous Coward]

That's a perfect example of cargo-cult.

Re:OMG

[Baleet]

Rights != laws.

Re:OMG

[Anonymous Coward]

OMG will someone stop him from this suicide attempt?

We should encourage his not-scientific experiments, because we'll never be able to convince him that physics is applied math.

Re: OMG

[Anonymous Coward]

Not useless. They set a high standard that may not be achievable in reality, but the expression of an ideal is as good a place to start as any.

Re:OMG

[stealth_finger]

Why?

Re:OMG

[Opportunist]

Why exactly?

Sorry, I'm done with trying to make the world a better place. All I want to do now is watch it fall apart on YouTube.

Re:OMG

[Anonymous Coward]

If he dies, it is the Jesuits preventing that we find out the truth.

Do you really think, that the Jesuits, who mislead everyone, edited (and still edit) all the videos everywhere on flat-earth, install secret firmware on all cameras only so that the pictures taken show curvature based on GPS height will allow him to fly? They will simply introduce a small malfunction the day before the flight, and sabotage his attempt.

He will be a martyr, a dead obvious proof of the flat-earch conteo.

P.

Re:OMG

[Opportunist]

Well, it looks like he's going to do it in a deserted area. It's gonna be fine, don't worry.

Re:OMG

[hawkinspeter]

I thought the Flat-Earthers didn't believe in gravity? Instead, they think it's just a buoyancy thing that keeps us on the ground.

Re:OMG

[Anonymous Coward]

I have no sympathy for stupidity.

Re:OMG

[Anonymous Coward]

If he does, maybe he can salvage all the junk up there, bring it back and sell it.

Re:OMG

[Opportunist]

Agent budgenator, please report to your superior, you are not supposed to impart this knowledge to outsiders.

Re: OMG

[Anonymous Coward]

If you know how high you are, you can check how far the horizon is. And simple math would then tell you the diameter of the Earth. Of course this works better over a completely flat part of the world. So, an ocean is a better location to try this.

And if that's what you're doing, you don't even need any rocket, balloon, or plane. Standing on a tall hill is all it takes.

On the other hand, if you really want to see the curvature of the Earth, you need to go much higher. His rocket doesn't actually go high at all. Any small plane goes higher (e.g. a simple glider plane)

Re:OMG

[hawkinspeter]

Surely everyone alive today has already had their lucky genes selected for multiple times over all their previous ancestors.

It's the people that don't get born that are the unlucky ones.

Re: OMG

[Opportunist]

But I have a financial interest in him! He's going to kill himself and I want to cash in on that, if that isn't a financial interest in someone, then what is?

Re:OMG

[Opportunist]

Excuse me, but what is the punishment for suicide? The death penalty?

I fail to see the threat, ya know...

Re:OMG

[glenebob]

That "someone else" has a good paying job cleaning up gory messes. Why would you wish unemployment on someone you've never even met?

Re: OMG

[Anonymous Coward]

It seems like a case of Darwinism taking care of something you can't fix any other way to me.

Re:OMG

[wonkey_monkey]

Why? He'll raise the average IQ of the planet.

Re: OMG

[Anonymous Coward]

Nonsense. We're just biased to think of ourselves as the lucky ones because we observe ourselves having been born. The ones who were not born in this reality were born in alternate realities, where doubtless they consider themselves the lucky ones and us the unlucky ones.

And they might be right. Our reality is the one with President Trump, after all.

Re:OMG

[Cajun Hell]

Let's hope not. I think this guy is awesome and I'm somewhat interested in helping to fund his suicide. Is there anywhere we can donate, to help this person more messily kill himself in the goriest "I don't believe in science" way possible? I'm thinking in terms of some relationship where increasing funds causes an increase in fuel energy, which causes an increase in the overall spread of the smear made by this guy's viscera. Then we hurry to the crash site, spray some kind of clear plastic on what's left of his mutilated corpse-shake, and around it, build a museum where all his beliefs are published.

DOCUMENT this guy; don't try to stop him. He needs all the encouragement we can give him. Let him make an example of himself and his conviction.

Re:OMG

[Opportunist]

No. Not even remotely close enough.

Re:OMG

[Anonymous Coward]

"If he changes the water for 100% hydrogen peroxide he might get high enough to see the edge. "

But he risks coming down blonde.

Re:OMG

[Cajun Hell]

Ok, this is damn embarrassing. This reminds me of some kind of science fiction story I read many years ago, but I can't remember if it's Larry Niven or Terry Pratchett. And I feel like I shouldn't be lumping those two authors together, no matter how much I love them both.

Re:OMG

[jwhyche]

Oh look. Three more words that will never be in my obituary, "home made rocket."

Re:OMG

[drew_kime]

For those old enough to remember, this is not very different from what Evil Knievel did when jumping the Snake River canyon.

Nit: It's Evel, not Evil.

Re:OMG

[jwhyche]

He will bounce off the transparent dome that keeps all the air in first long before he reaches the moon.

Re:OMG

[meglon]

Nah, the coyote's can clean him up at their leisure.

Re:OMG

[jwhyche]

The project itself has nothing to do with flat earth.

Actually it sounds just like something one of those nuts would come up with.

Re: OMG

[TheDarkMaster]

For me the guy looks like just yet another nutjob wanting attention.

Re: OMG

[soMuchDumbShite]

thank you - we should all be applauding his efforts so the Darwin awards are just that much more fun for us

Re: OMG

[hawkinspeter]

Shit! You've got a point there.

Re:OMG

[Anonymous Coward]

"I wonder if the mechanics of landing are just formulas or "science fiction"

He doesn't believe in Gravity, after all, it's just a 'theory'.

Re:OMG

[Anonymous Coward]

Turns out he's Truman, and he really is living inside a flat-earthed dome...

Re:OMG

[gnick]

I don't think the burden of proof is particularly strict for your average Flat Earther.

Looks flat from here. Flat Earth proven!

Re:OMG

[nukenerd]

The project itself has nothing to do with flat earth.

If he can see his starting point from where he lands, won't that prove the Earth is flat?

Re:OMG

[hawk]

It's the Teela Brown Gene in Niven.

Although I wouldn't be surprised if Pratchett played with it.

Anyway, its so dominant that it hits 100% penetration of the population.

hawk

Re:OMG

[meglon]

Just going to point out some old wives tales you have in there....

http://mentalhealthdaily.com/2...

United States: In the past, many states had laws that regarded the act of suicide as a felony, but these laws were seldom enforced. In the 1980s, 30 out of 50 United States has no laws opposing suicide or attempting suicide. With that said, all 50 states had laws stating that assisted suicide is a felony. Currently there is no law against the act of committing suicide in the United States.

Additionally, physician assisted suicide is wider spread than just Oregon... they were simply the first. http://www.cnn.com/2014/11/26/...

Only in portions of Nevada is prostitution legal, not the entirety of the state.

Public nudity is more widely accepted (legally) than you've limited it too, but here each city can have it's own ordinances, so listing them would need a staggering amount of space, and as much effort; so here's an already written article:

http://www.thefrisky.com/2016-...

Re:OMG

[sconeu]

No, the punishment for ATTEMPTED suicide is a death penalty.
The punishment for successful suicide is a life sentence.

Re:OMG

[gnick]

He's bred, the genes are passed on. He has proven he is fit enough to procreate, which is all Darwin suggests.

Unless I missed it, TFA says nothing about him having children. Do you know something we don't? Even if he does, there's nothing stopping him from having more. This stunt could be all it takes to win him a buxom young 30-year-old to carry his seed. 61 isn't too old for a man to reproduce.

Misapplying Darwinian theory is one of the reasons people don't believe science.

So stop it.

Re:OMG

[Anonymous Coward]

Are you insane? Stop him for what? So his flat-earther buddies can say that there is some kind of government-NASA conspiracy to prevent flat-earth research? He probably won't even take off. Maybe his failure will prove him that there is a difference between science and science fiction.

Re:OMG

[meglon]

Well, he's more likely to break some of the hanging lights that are "stars," and if he breaks certain ones, he could get in real Sirius trouble.

Re:OMG

[Farmer Tim]

That isn’t going to make him any dumber...

Re:OMG

[volpe]

Don't interfere with natural selection.

Re:OMG

[Anonymous Coward]

Nope it is his fault for being a flat earther

Re:OMG

[Anonymous Coward]

"And the person he lands on? Is that Darwinism at work?"

It's a ghost town, the ghost 'person' he lands on had already Darwinism at work for him.

Re: OMG

[H3lldr0p]

One major component to the faked moon landings conspiracy is that they were shot on Hollywood or other sets still on Earth. The idea now being is, sure, let's take them to space to the actual moon and let them find out the hard way that it wasn't faked. If they were faked, they could walk out of the lander and into an oxygen environment because they didn't leave the Earth.

Re:OMG

[Opportunist]

I guess there's few repeat offenders.

Well, maybe in India.

Re:OMG

[Anonymous Coward]

As if this guy is the first to design, develop, and launch his own rocket. What an egotist.

Re:OMG

[amicusNYCL]

He's not going to space, he's traveling nearly horizontally. His max altitude is supposed to be something like 1800 feet. It's just a stunt though, he probably wants his own TV series.

I like to do extraordinary things that no one else can do, and no one in the history of mankind has designed, built and launched himself in his own rocket.

I'm a walking reality show.

Anyway, luckily for him, science doesn't require that he "believes" in it. When he's doing his calculations to figure out how big his parachutes need to be to put him safely on the ground, he can just plug in 9.8 meters per second squared into his formula. He doesn't need to understand why we know that value, he can just use it. It doesn't require him to believe in anything.

Following his jump, he said he’s going to announce his plans to leap into the race for governor of California.

Fantastic, that's exactly what this country needs more of. Science-denying reality TV stars are really so well cut out for governance.

Re:OMG

[Anonymous Coward]

Why? Let him go, I want to see it

Re:OMG

[Barsteward]

He's aiming for the Darwin Award of 2017

Re:OMG

[Anonymous Coward]

Eccentric, but he doesn't deserve to die for it.

Re:OMG

[shaitand]

Why? *gets the popcorn*

Re: OMG

[imrahilj]

Some of the Buddhists who live in the mountainous regions along the border of India and China do, I believe. Their form doesn't involve towers though.

Re:OMG

[shaitand]

Yes. Yes it is. People with shells, housed in solid structures, and who get the fuck out of the way when somebody is going to fly a giant steam powered rocket of their head are far more likely to survive and pass on the genetics that gave them these advantages. Granted, it's a small impact on the human race but we get double points since this guy gets taken out before he could have more offspring.

Re: OMG

[Anonymous Coward]

If they think the moon landing was faked, then obviously, if they "went to the Moon", they would in fact be on a stage or some such thing. So yes, there would be oxygen there.

Re:OMG

[Anonymous Coward]

Why? Let fate sort it out. What I want to know is how this is going to prove anything. If only there were some sort of method or process by where he could express a theory and then test that theory and refine it until he could make a reproducible conclusion.

There is, it's called science fiction!
I for one will smile and yell "You go girl!".
And Darwin smiles as well. :|D> *

(* this is my "Darwinicon")

Re:OMG

[TsuruchiBrian]

Anyway, luckily for him, science doesn't require that he "believes" in it. When he's doing his calculations to figure out how big his parachutes need to be to put him safely on the ground, he can just plug in 9.8 meters per second squared into his formula. He doesn't need to understand why we know that value, he can just use it. It doesn't require him to believe in anything.

It requires him to to believe the believe the 9.8 m/s^2 "constant" is accurate, as well as the formulas he's plugging that number into are accurate.

Even if he measured this constant himself rather than relying on scientists, what was his methodology for measuring the acceleration due to gravity? How does he even know what acceleration is and how to measure it?

This whole endeavor requires him to believe lots of things, explicitly or implicitly, whether it's "the scientific community" or some random web page with a javascript acceleration calculator.

The fact that he says he doesn't believe in science is more of a semantic problem than an epistemological problem. You can just as easily "believe in science", not know anything about Newton's laws, and end up using the same javascript calculator.

It seems that he might believe some of the right things (e.g. he's using math formulas rather than prayer to come up with his numbers) but for the wrong reason.

Re: OMG

[Anonymous Coward]

My personal favorite theory is if we take all the people who believe apollo was faked to the moon, would they actually walk outside without a space suit?

I don't see the logic in your theory.

Do you think that people who believe the moon landing was faked think there is oxygen on the moon? There's no correlation here.

The popular conspiracy/de facto meme is that the entire "landing" took place on a movie set/soundstage; the deniers would assume that there would be ample oxygen.

Re:OMG

[Anonymous Meoward]

Only if he managed to avoid breeding first.

Re: OMG

[Anonymous Coward]

No, in the contrary: I encourage him to do it! (I also encourage him not to reproduce).

Re: OMG

[Anonymous Coward]

Please no. This is not suicide. It's Darwin's theory of evolution working.

I can see the future; clueless, uneducated flat earther dies doing what he loved. Spouting off bad information with no science to back it up.

Re:OMG

[jpaine619]

Would you please learn how to spell "YOU'RE"? It's not that goddamn hard.

Re: OMG

[Anonymous Coward]

He did a smaller scale test (also with himself in the rocket) before that worked out ok...

Re:OMG

[Wintermute__]

You can't know that yet. Someone like this guy might land on you while you are sitting in rush hour traffic on the freeway. Or while you sleep in your bed at night. Who knows! Home made rockets could become popular next week. Or not.

Re:OMG

[Anonymous Coward]

You must be legit, and deserving of astrological, biblical, and flat earth commendations.
Because I've found proof of your pearls of wisdom! (wisdome?)

"Rocket slams into firmament"
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9q2aqNgNy_Q

And don't forget "Operation Fishbowl" !!!
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSOoY7PQWKw

_

Re: OMG

[SuricouRaven]

One person would walk out and die.

The second would be confused for a few minutes, then realise that the entire set has been built as a giant vacuum chamber to trick them - it's probably inside a huge cave underground, with spotlights on the ceiling. He'll tell the others, and no more venture outside.

Conspiracy theories will adapt to counter any evidence presented.

Re:OMG

[Anonymous Coward]

Worse still, what if he hits the star dome and breaks it? All the air will rush out and the aliens will need to clean up the debris and find a new petri dish!

Re:OMG

[SuricouRaven]

That's why he is launching over an abandoned town.

Re:OMG

[Jason Levine]

Obligatory Willy Wonka (talking calmly): No. Please. Stop.

Re:OMG

[zifn4b]

That's why he is launching over an abandoned town.

And I'm certain he's lawfully allowed to potentially set the town on fire then right? </sarcasm>

Re:OMG

[Anonymous Coward]

Absolutely not! We must allow this great individual to make an example of himself. He's like a living crash test dummy! Besides, when the video of the inevitable fiery crash circulates the internet it'll be the best use of my bandwidth in months. So long as it's over an uninhabited area it's fine by me.

Re:OMG

[Anonymous Coward]

Why should anyone stop him from earning his Darwin Award?

Afterward, maybe all of the flat-earthers and religious nuts can build and take a ride on their own rocket ship "Ark". The world would be a drastically improved place.

Re: OMG

[serviscope_minor]

He's going to kill himself and I want to cash in on that,

#MAGA

Re: OMG

[Anonymous Coward]

> Now he's a Flat-Earther. He's merely about to become a flat Earther.

Now he's a Flat-Earther. He's merely about to become an Earth-flattener

FTFY

Re:OMG

[Anonymous Coward]

Whats YOU'RE problem?

XD

Captcha: Spelling
Haha there has to be some sort of AI involved in these captchas.

Re:OMG

[Anonymous Coward]

Why?

Re: OMG

[K. S. Kyosuke]

Don't forget the hideen anti-gravity devices!

Re: OMG

[K. S. Kyosuke]

Crap, "hidden", of course.

Re:OMG

[nasch]

They believe the earth is continuously accelerating, which would be indistinguishable from gravity and present exactly the same problems landing on the moon disc.

Re: OMG

[Anonymous Coward]

> the flat Earth hypothesis, there are much more effective options. A plane flies much higher than his rocket

Yes, but didn't you know: All aircraft windows are designed to distort the view of the horizon. They make it look curved when it is really flat.

Captcha: contrive
There really is AI somewhere

Re:OMG

[Anonymous Coward]

> he's already passed his defective genes on.

He's an American, those genes are not considered defective.

#MAGA

Re: OMG

[Anonymous Coward]

> One person would walk out and die.
> The second would be confused for a few minutes, then realise that ... ... the first was an actor paid by NASA to fake dying in a vacuum.

Re: OMG

[Kernel Kurtz]

Conspiracy theories will adapt to counter any evidence presented.

I have no mod points today, but that is as informative as they come.

Re:OMG

[Anonymous Coward]

that joke is even dumber than the flat earthers

Re:OMG

[Anonymous Coward]

He's about to science the shit out of Newton's 3 laws of motion, gravity, and maybe a very brief lesson in biology.

Re:OMG

[Anonymous Coward]

We just found those formulas on the ground. Science doesnt own them man.

Re: OMG

[Type44Q]

What ate you talking about?? The objectivity and mental flexibility required to believe in a flat Earth should almost certainly translate to rocket science...

Re:OMG

[bugs2squash]

I expect there is a grand canyon between his declared beliefs and his actual beliefs.

Re:OMG

[bugs2squash]

impressive if he can build a boiler that doesn't simply blow him up.

Re:OMG

[MoaDweeb]

Please allow this idiot to expire in his own chosen way.

Re: OMG

[Anonymous Coward]

Probably a spectator. So yes.

Re: OMG

[Anonymous Coward]

The coyotes donâ(TM)t posses the cleanup process. The word you were looking for is coyotes. Simply plural.

Re: OMG

[meglon]

Thank you for being anally retentive enough to correct me. Allow me to return the favor:

The coyote's (referencing the word i used should actually reference the word i use) don't (an actual word, not whatever it is you wrote) possess (posses is probably not the word you're looking for as this has nothing to do with a small gang of men, agitating laundry, and it's not the 1700's... although i suppose using archaic or obsolete words is sometimes fun) the cleanup process. The word you were looking for is coyotes. Simply plural.

Re: OMG

[Opportunist]

It's just un-American to not make a buck out of someone else's misery of foolishness!

Re: OMG

[dave420]

It's just un-American to not make a buck out of someone else's mental illness

Re:OMG

[Anonymous Coward]

Your getting to mad their. You think he should of spelled it different. Don't be a looser.

Re: OMG

[Opportunist]

True that. There ain't a place on earth with more churches, preachers, televangelists and other con artists.

Re:OMG

[Hylandr]

Good Lord No!

Give him an Acme parachute and film that shit!

If he's smart he can rent some bleachers and have wile e coyote and roadrunner for a special appearance.

Re:OMG

[Marxist Hacker 42]

Which one, the author who thinks anything with steam is steam powered, or the pilot who doesn't know that the word engineering exists?

Re:OMG

[Anonymous Coward]

then someone will have to clean the splat off the dome and scratch it, no one wants to clean up the giant hamster ball

Re:OMG

[TsuruchiBrian]

Yep. Actions speak louder than words.

Re:OMG

[minstrelmike]

I'll bet he's not using the metric system either because there's no difference between that and the Freemasons.

Re:OMG

[minstrelmike]

He'd better watch out for dragons. too. That's the _real_ reason rocketships have to have heat shields.

Re:OMG

[Anonymous Coward]

He's an adult. If he wants to make the world a better place, why stop him?

Re:OMG

[Anonymous Coward]

We can't allow common sense to steal jobs from hard-working Americans!

Re: OMG

[psycheitout]

5 seconds of searching Google tells me you have to be 6 miles in the air on a clear day to see the earths curve. A feat that main kind has only been able to accomplish with basically any plane that can reach cruising altitude. Now if in the entire time this man was building his suicide machine he did not think to put in that much research time. Who are we to stop him.

Re:OMG

[Anonymous Coward]

Why? Flat earthers are fucking morons.

Re: OMG

[Cinnamon Beige]

I think hideen more accurately represents the mindset involved, especially given that anti-gravity devices would be harder to do than a moon landing--unless the theory is that it's just the footage that's fake...

Re:OMG

[Ol Olsoc]

OMG will someone stop him from this suicide attempt?

Why? This is going to be a graphic demonstrations of why science doesn't care if you "believe" it.

The weird part is that he's planning on going up 1500 feet? What's that going to prove? This is just life in Post-Sanity USA

Re: OMG

[Ol Olsoc]

My personal favorite theory is if we take all the people who believe apollo was faked to the moon, would they actually walk outside without a space suit?

I don't see the logic in your theory.

Do you think that people who believe the moon landing was faked think there is oxygen on the moon? There's no correlation here.

If people belive that we spent massive amounts of money, and had thousands upon thousands of people deeply involved in a conspiracy that miraculously has not leaked to this day.

Let's face it, why wouldn't they believe that the moon is covered with Green Grass and hookers, and the actual purpose of the rockets was to put a a giant lens that removes the color from the moon so we can't see what is actually there. The old one was failing, having been placed there by the Ancient Egyptians aided by aliens. It diif pretty well, but th eRosicrucians destroyed teh main power source of the pyramids during the revolutionary war, which was a diversion tactic by George Washington and the FreeMasons. Air on the moon? Not the craziest idea.

They are all wrong anyhow. Thew Moon is where O'blama and Hillary have their trysts with the pizzagate kids. Wake up America- it's so obvious and right before your eyes! That's why good Americans can't find his birth certificate - he was born on the moon in 1960. before the USA annexed it. Don't worry though, Sherriff Joe Arapio is giong to lead a force to liberate the moon, using the chemicals that are in those Chemtrails that he single handedly wrestled off of failed human Jimmy Carter, who was using them to poison fetuses.

The moon will now be used for good, God, and the American way.

Re:OMG

[ebvwfbw]

OMG will someone stop him from this suicide attempt?

Let him do it. As long as he isn't hurting anyone else. You only live once after all. I've done plenty of things that could have been my last thing I ever did. Never felt more alive.

Re:OMG

[tigersha]

There is going to be one more ghost, so no problem

Re:OMG

[Anonymous Cow Ward]

How does buoyancy work without gravity?

Re:OMG

[hawkinspeter]

Hey now, if you're going to try to apply logic then the whole flat-earth thing just falls apart. You might as well ask how the moon looks upside down in Australia.

Re:OMG

[Anonymous Cow Ward]

Well sure, I just wondered if they had some extra insane "explanation" for it.

I can't even this morning

[HumanWiki]

I can't.. I was going to quote some stuff and then comment on some other.. but, I can't..

Even Wile E Coyote wasn't that stupid.

Re:I can't even this morning

[Kokuyo]

Wile E. Coyote is actually a pretty diametral example. A lot of his failures were due to cartoon physics not being real physics. This joker here has it kinda backwards ;).

Re:I can't even this morning

[HumanWiki]

Wile E. Coyote is actually a pretty diametral example. A lot of his failures were due to cartoon physics not being real physics. This joker here has it kinda backwards ;).

Wile E actually believed in science.. He was just carrying it out poorly..

This joker doesn't even believe in science.

Re:I can't even this morning

[Anonymous Coward]

So to put it another way, Wile E. Coyote was trying to apply real physics in a cartoon world? I like that interpretation.

Re:I can't even this morning

[jellomizer]

Well at least he is trying to prove his hypothesis, vs just sitting there and being grumpy about it.
Perhaps after a few failures, he may need to read up on some of physics involved. Then try again, perhaps he could actually put a device in orbit...

Who am I kidding, it is going to fail, and because his rocket failed, it proved that going to space and in orbit is impossible, because the earth is flat.

Proof by laziness.
 

Re:I can't even this morning

[Anonymous Coward]

He won't survive his first failure.

Re:I can't even this morning

[AmiMoJo]

Well at least he is trying to prove his hypothesis

He claims not to believe in science, so... It's not at all clear what he is doing.

TFA suggests that he isn't trying to go up to space though, more sideways at very high speed. Apparently he has made one flight already, this is just a longer one.

Re:I can't even this morning

[goose-incarnated]

Well at least he is trying to prove his hypothesis

He claims not to believe in science, so... It's not at all clear what he is doing.

You don't need a belief in science to be a good engineer - most engineers are pretty damn useless at science. He says he's got the math worked out and I'm inclined to believe him.

After all, the attack on the twin towers (9/11) was planned and executed by engineers, not scientists.

Re:I can't even this morning

[DontBeAMoran]

According to the article, this will be his second rocket launch. He survived his first failure and was stuck in bed for three days.

Re:I can't even this morning

[DontBeAMoran]

You don't need a belief in science to be a good engineer - most engineers are pretty damn useless at science. He says he's got the math worked out and I'm inclined to believe him.

WTF.

The math used by engineers IS science.

Re:I can't even this morning

[goose-incarnated]

You don't need a belief in science to be a good engineer - most engineers are pretty damn useless at science. He says he's got the math worked out and I'm inclined to believe him.

WTF.

The math used by engineers IS science.

Nice snippage there, avoiding all the context... Why did you ignore this bit:

After all, the attack on the twin towers (9/11) was planned and executed by engineers, not scientists.

???

Significant numbers of terrorist attacks are performed by engineers. Almost none are performed by scientists.

Re:I can't even this morning

[AmiMoJo]

I meant the "prove his hypothesis" bit. If he doesn't believe in science then why would he be using the scientific method of proposing a hypothesis and then trying to prove it?

You are right though, he does seem to be focused more on engineering. TFA doesn't really convey that very well.

Re:I can't even this morning

[CustomSolvers2]

You don't need a belief in science to be a good engineer - most engineers are pretty damn useless at science.

This seems a quite inaccurate statement as far engineering is basically applied science. And similarly to what happens with most of applied branches, its whole point is to apply a theory about which you need a quite good knowledge and which you might even correct/extend via empirical validation. A different story would be talking about bastardised/extreme versions of science/engineering: getting the scientific/engineering label pretty much arbitrarily or theory-with-no-real-applicability (is this science at all?) / very-specific-implementation (is this engineering at all?).

Re:I can't even this morning

[jellomizer]

A good engineer may not be a good scientist, but they need to understand and respect the information that the scientist provide to them.

Material A will have a melting point of X degrees, is useful information to know, so your rocket will not be made from a material that will melt from its rockets.

Now I don't expect an engineer to take a bunch of materials and cook them at different temperatures to see what their melting point is, however they will reference material made by the scientists who did the study, and expect there is truth in such science. They may over engineer because of impurities, however they will have a good baseline to over engineer too.

The biggest problem is the poor representation of scientists. They call the Hypothesis of the day a theory, confusing people after the Hypothesis has been disprove, or people going on thinking it is true. What most people think of science and scientists is closer to Philosophy then science, Where ideas are came up via thought experiments vs the next steps which is to actually test it to see if it is true.

The Flat Earthers seem to have came up from Anti-Darwinism where some religions seems to take exception to the science that seems to contradict the first (very abstract) chapters of the bible. So this planted a seed of Science vs. Religion. So then Global Warming now has came up, they are just saying it is these evil scientists coming up with lies again. Then they figured that all science is a lie vs. just a literal interpretation of the first chapter of the bible may be more metaphorical then accurate.

Re:I can't even this morning

[Anonymous Coward]

Context has no point here. You're trying to push something else into the facts... I don't know, religion, maybe?

Engineers do things with math that was derived from science. If they don't believe in science then it means they don't trust the math they're doing.

Re:I can't even this morning

[goose-incarnated]

You don't need a belief in science to be a good engineer - most engineers are pretty damn useless at science.

This seems a quite inaccurate statement as far engineering is basically applied science

I think it's pretty accurate. You don't need to form falsifiable hypotheses and construct controlled tests to eliminate support for the hypothesis just to build a bridge, but you *do* need to be able to do the math required to ensure that the correct materials are used in the correct way.

Being a whizz at the numbers and having a thorough materials reference does not make someone a scientist.

Re:I can't even this morning

[Venerable Vegetable]

I don't understand this reasoning. Science is not something to believe in, it is not a religion. It is like saying you don't need to believe in dough to be a good pastry chef. As an engineer you are building on science. If you are building a rocket that can go 500 MpH, you are definately using science.

He's not conjuring up a rocket out of thin air is he? He's building something, predicting the what it will do, testing and evaluating the results, improve and repeat. Science.

Furthermore, he is questioning the assumption that the earth is round. He is going to test his assumption that it is flat. Science.

He is also nuts, but that is hardly relevant.

Re:I can't even this morning

[Anonymous Coward]

You’re quote is still wrong. Engineering is by definition applied science.

Re:I can't even this morning

[Anonymous Coward]

Just for the record here, read the article this time. He's already launched himself once in 2014 so there's a chance he'll survive, assuming the chute is set to auto-deploy (TFA said he didn't handle the gees well last time, and this rocket is supposed to travel considerably higher). ...Though judging by the state of the parachute in the last video I'm not betting money on it.

Re:I can't even this morning

[Anonymous Coward]

A lot of engineers may not make good scientists, but many might. A lot of scientists would make very poor engineers. Some might make good ones.

Re:I can't even this morning

[Anonymous Coward]

No, Wile E. Coyote merely believed in Acme.

Re:I can't even this morning

[Anonymous Coward]

The math used by engineers IS science.

No, it's math. Science is the process of taking and recording objective measurements about the world, and of making and testing hypotheses based on those observations.

Math is just math. Engineers apply that math, along with the successfully tested hypotheses and observations, to do and make stuff.

Re:I can't even this morning

[CustomSolvers2]

You don't need to form falsifiable hypotheses and construct controlled tests to eliminate support for the hypothesis just to build a bridge, but you *do* need to be able to do the math required to ensure that the correct materials are used in the correct way.

Applying the scientific method, although a sensible proceeding in many cases, is certainly not seen as a requirement in quite a few engineering scenarios. But relying on the same methodologies than scientists do isn't the same than knowing/applying science. To build a bridge or (better and more according to my personal expertise) a machine, you have to systematically rely on physics, either the default versions or engineering ones adapted to the specific conditions. The physics knowledge of a physics-related engineer is very important and same thing for any other branch.

Being a whizz at the numbers and having a thorough materials reference does not make someone a scientist.

I haven't ever met an engineer dreaming about being called scientist or vice versa. The fact of having a relevant background on the associated scientific field doesn't mean that an engineer's work has anything to do with a scientist's one. That's why we have scientists and engineers. But your "most engineers are pretty damn useless at science", at least as per my understanding, denotes having a limited knowledge/not agreeing with whatever scientific field is applicable and this is certainly not the case. If you only meant doing scientist-kind-of work (dressing white lab coats and playing around with pipettes. LOL) then I guess that you are right and engineers are quite bad at that.

Re: I can't even this morning

[hey!]

He isn't going get nearly high enough to see the curvature of the Earth ... That'd be about 35000 feet, or about 10km. He's planning to travel a mile or so downrange, which assuming most of the flight is ballistic means he'll achieve less than a half km altitude.

And "ballistic" is a key point. It's not clear whether he's built an actual rocket or a rocket shaped projectile fired out of a steam cannon, but given the enormous weight of a steam pressure vessel I'm guessing it's a projectile. You wouldn't launch a steam locomotive into the air, you'd keep the heavy bits on the ground. Kind of like a carrier steam catapult.

That conjecture would be consistent with his last attempt, which travelled only a quarter mile yet left him disabled for several days with acceleration injuries.

Now if he were less antagonistic toward science he might perform a preliminary experiment: launch his capsule unmanned and measure the acceleration he'd experience. Its quite possible he would be dead or unconscious for most of his flight. A proper engineer could calculate a rough estimate of acceleration.

Re:I can't even this morning

[lgw]

The math used by engineers IS science.

No, that's just not what "science" means.

The math used by engineers may sometimes be the result of science, though often it's not. Both fields refine their equations through iterative testing, but science is more than just that, and engineering is actually useful.

Re:I can't even this morning

[Green Mountain Bot]

The math used by engineers was developed through scientific means. To use it to to implicitly have faith in science.

Re:I can't even this morning

[lgw]

This seems a quite inaccurate statement as far engineering is basically applied science.

Sure, in the sense that everything humans do is basically applied biology.

Re:I can't even this morning

[goose-incarnated]

He's building something, predicting the what it will do, testing and evaluating the results, improve and repeat. Science.

That's not science.

Re:I can't even this morning

[CustomSolvers2]

Sure, in the sense that everything humans do is basically applied biology.

Evident inapplicability here aside, I like that sentence and will use applied law (stealing) to use it in the future as mine. LOL. Relevant xkcd.

Re:I can't even this morning

[Cajun Hell]

Science is not something to believe in

Yes, it is. To believe in science is to believe that we can learn from our senses and experience; it's the belief that the world you see is the world that exists. And to not believe in science, is to believe that you can't learn (or can't learn the truth or the whole truth) from experience, because senses and experience are all a sham. (e.g. senses always fail to detect gods.) Which is why...

He is also nuts, but that is hardly relevant.

.. you've got that exactly wrong. It's extremely relevant.

Yes, he can "build on science" in the sense that he can use knowledge that was acquired through science, while ignoring how that knowledge was acquired and why that knowledge is believed to be true. You can still do that, even if you think science is bullshit. And I bet it's especially easy and lacking in contradictions, if you're nuts. Being nuts really helps a lot with stuff like this.

Re:I can't even this morning

[Kiuas]

I don't understand this reasoning.

I have located your problem: you're assuming a man who believes that the Earth is flat has reason.

The ancient Greeks knew the Earth to be round. They also laid the foundations of western philosophy and reasoning. Therefore this individual is clearly at a level of intellect far more distant in the past than the ancient Greeks, it's no wonder he's irrational and has outdated views about astronomy.

Someone needs to tell this man about our lord and saviour in white robes who died for his beliefs, Socrates! :P

Re:I can't even this morning

[jbengt]

Science is not something to believe in, it is not a religion.

Just because you believe something doesn't make it a religion.

Re:I can't even this morning

[HornWumpus]

Never lacked confidence: 'Wile E Coyote...supergenius...'

Re:I can't even this morning

[HornWumpus]

No. Engineering is the union of applied science/math, business and art.

Re:I can't even this morning

[HornWumpus]

Science is also the body of knowledge accumulated by the process of science.

Re:I can't even this morning

[Venerable Vegetable]

Well, I mostly agree with you. Believing that you can learn from your senses and experience certainly helps to get you started on a scientific career.

But you can practise science even when you say that you do not believe in it.Science doesn't depend on believing. Science thrives on questioning beliefs. Some people see scientists as an organized group with a specific agenda. And then they do all kinds of experiments to prove "the scientists" wrong. Those are the first steps to science.

How is being nuts relevant to whether you are a scientist or not?

Re:I can't even this morning

[Venerable Vegetable]

True, so we agree!

An apple is not an orange, it is not a banana... Just because something is an orange, doesn't make it a banana.

Re:I can't even this morning

[Venerable Vegetable]

I have located your problem: you're assuming a man who believes that the Earth is flat has reason.

I am not, care to guess again?

You are placing your trust in the ancient greeks and western philosophy and reasoning. That is ok, so do I. But not taking those things for granted and trying to see for yourself, even when starting from a completely different viewpoint, is not anti-science.

Re:I can't even this morning

[Anonymous Coward]

> The math used by engineers IS science.

No. The math used by engineers is heuristic.

As demonstrated by all the failures.

Re:I can't even this morning

[Anonymous Coward]

> He's building something, predicting the what it will do, testing and evaluating the results, improve and repeat. Science.

You are assuming that his 'predictions' have any basis at all.

Re:I can't even this morning

[Anonymous Coward]

Well at least he is trying to prove his hypothesis, vs just sitting there and being grumpy about it.

Yeah, it's always good to see someone applying the scientific method :)

Re:I can't even this morning

[bugs2squash]

He doesn't need a parachute so long as he never looks down

Re:I can't even this morning

[bugs2squash]

Yes, but if the Earth is not a globe then it reasonably follows that there is no global warming. Maybe planar warming. Perhaps that's where the scientists are going wrong.

Re:I can't even this morning

[goose-incarnated]

I meant the "prove his hypothesis" bit. If he doesn't believe in science then why would he be using the scientific method of proposing a hypothesis and then trying to prove it?

That's a good point; he actually *is* using a scientific approach. However the orginal sentiment I addressed was that Engineering is not Science. It's fundamentally different, in the same way that the practice of medicine is not science either.

It's perfectly possible to use observational evidence and rules derived from scientific endeavours while simultaneously disbelieving the majority of the (other) evidence from scientific endeavours.

See TempleOS for well-known example of an engineer (someone engineering a solution) who also does not believe in much of science.

Re:I can't even this morning

[goose-incarnated]

You don't need a belief in science to be a good engineer - most engineers are pretty damn useless at science. He says he's got the math worked out and I'm inclined to believe him.

WTF. The math used by engineers IS science.

So? The math used by carpenters is science too; doesn't mean that carpenters are doing science.

Re:I can't even this morning

[goose-incarnated]

The math used by engineers was developed through scientific means. To use it to to implicitly have faith in science.

The $X used by $Y is also developed through scientific means, doesn't mean that the entire population who does $Y have faith in science. For example, "math used by carpenters does nto mean carpenters have faith in science", "IVs used by nurses dos not mean that nurses have faith in science".

Re:I can't even this morning

[bingoUV]

But your "most engineers are pretty damn useless at science", at least as per my understanding, denotes having a limited knowledge/not agreeing with whatever scientific field is applicable and this is certainly not the case. If you only meant doing scientist-kind-of work (dressing white lab coats and playing around with pipettes. LOL) then I guess that you are right and engineers are quite bad at that.

"Science" has at least 2 meanings.

(1) Discovering new (at least to oneself) knowledge using the scientific method

(2) The body of knowledge people acquired and documented that was acquired using the scientific method. Even here, there are some (apparent) contradictions / disagreements in people following the same method so one needs some talent to extract the useful knowledge.

It would be a rare engineer who excelled at (1) above, so one could reasonably say "most engineers are pretty damn useless at science". Though they need the related information from (2) above, so it is bound to be a controversial statement because people would consider this meaning of the word "science" too. The talent required in (2) above also is not necessary in an engineer.

Though an engineer definitely needs the skill to determine what works for him - if the science is not clear or scientists have disagreements. In this he uses almost the same skills as the scientists - though if the scientist performs the same determination he also has the added skill to scientifically document it so that it is published as a scientific proof. This skill for documentation may be lacking in an engineer.

Re:I can't even this morning

[bingoUV]

There is a philosophy of science. While it makes sense to me, one can totally reject various aspects of science as a philosophy and yet have a internally consistent philosophy.

You don't need something to be a religion to believe in it. A philosophy is enough - they at least have epistemology and metaphysics. The religions have an added dimension to them over and above a mere philosophy - ethics. Science is a non-religion philosophy as in it doesn't have an ethics of its own.

Human beings cannot really do anything without having an ethics. One's ethics could be random, or ask oneself to kill as many people as possible, but ethics is required. In the world of science, you need to supply your own ethics. Religions come with their own.

Re:I can't even this morning

[CustomSolvers2]

I don't agree with some of your statements, not even with the main ideas underlying your post. In general, I don't agree with virtually any absolute statement expected to be applicable to a so wide number of different people (engineers! What includes tons of different specialities, even those whose definition as engineering might be arguable, knowledge, personalities, expectations, etc.; same thing for scientists). I don't even agree with your signature promoting idealism over pragmatism (I do have default expectations like absolute fairness/honesty being the best approaches, all people being intrinsically identical, etc., but I also accept a reality proving them wrong under certain conditions)! So, I don't see the point of continuing a discussion which is very unlikely to get anywhere because of our evident differences. See? I cannot refrain myself from being pragmatic, an attitude which you don't like too much :)

Re:I can't even this morning

[bingoUV]

Ok.

1. So science does not have at least those 2 meanings ?

In general, I don't agree with virtually any absolute statement expected to be applicable to a so wide number of different people (engineers!

It is a great thing I didn't make any absolute statements about engineers then.

2A. It would be a rare engineer who
Not "there is no engineer"

2B. not necessary in an engineer
Not "not possible in an engineer"

2C. may be lacking in an engineer
Not "are lacking in an engineer"

Re:I can't even this morning

[CustomSolvers2]

Are you trying to prove me wrong in my assumption that the most likely outcome of continuing with this discussion was going nowhere? Because, pragmatically speaking, you are doing a terrible job. LOL. Seriously, I am not trying to be offensive or impolite; it seems quite clear to me the kind of conversation you are after and I am not interested in it. I think that my original point should be properly understood by anyone interested in doing so. I know that some people enjoy getting involved in long discussions about issues which are only accessorily related to accomplishing the given goal (properly understanding my point and, eventually, (dis)agreeing with it). I respect everyone's expectations and don't want to impose my approach; but also expect everyone else to respect my position. Again, I am not interested in continuing talking about irrelevant-to-me issues and that's why I will stop this chat here.

Re:I can't even this morning

[bingoUV]

I think that my original point should be properly understood by anyone interested in doing so

"Absolute statements" is a term that should be properly understood by anyone interested in doing so. You didn't and typed it when you meant something else. Maybe "nuanced statements". Words have meanings, and all words don't have all meanings.

Given that, I have every expectation that you may not know basic meanings of the word "science". You may not have been able to realize it yet, at least you have not acknowledged it yet.

Re:I can't even this morning

[CustomSolvers2]

Given that, I have every expectation that you may not know basic meanings of the word "science". You may not have been able to realize it yet, at least you have not acknowledged it yet.

LOL. This last post has been so funny and descriptive of your behaviour (and what you represent) that I will better break my intention (one last time, hopefully) of not saying you anything else and will be much clearer than so far.

I have tried to be polite, to rely on ideas on the lines of "it isn't you, it is me", even though I am quite a quite honest and straightforward person; but this has been clearly a very bad idea. See, I have met many people like you, all of them equally wrong if not about their approach to life (who am I to arbitrarily determine how people should behave?) about what others (or at least, myself and other people similar to me) think about them and about how relevant their contribution might be. Do you want me to be completely honest regarding what I think about your whole contribution to this conversation (and probably to many other situations)? It has been 100% negative. People like you systematically invade everyone around them, self-elevate themselves to absolute authorities (despite usually having numerous lacks), reduce the value/interest of all what they touch and never accept nice and polite "warnings" or even the results themselves. You come in with whatever idea is in your mind and the blind conviction that that idea has to be imposed no matter what and nothing else is good for you. Your behaviour can provoke only two possible outputs: either hypocrisy, unfair-/arbitrary-/nepotism-, ignorance/fear-based, honest (not precisely the most common outcome) agreement or chaos. IMO, the best reaction is being extremely (even aggressively) clear when someone like you appears and this is exactly what I should have done since the very first second. Thanks for helping me remember that being generous and (kind of hypocritical) polite with people like you is a very bad idea.

Now, you can continue having this discussion with yourself. Hopefully, you will appreciate me having written so many words which you can easily take completely out of context, adapt to whatever fear/complex you might have this month and basically continue living in your in-denial world where all what matters is whatever idea happens to be in your head in that moment. In case you have any problem to easily rely on whatever abstract prejudice you might be using this time to justify your behaviour and blame me/what I represent, you should ask me for more information (gender, race, country, education, occupation, income, marital status, political views, expectations, etc.); and I will do all what I can to help you continue caring about yourself and your in-denial crusade. LOL.

Re:I can't even this morning

[bingoUV]

You're being too hard on yourself. There are many weaklings like you I've broken.

Re:I can't even this morning

[Venerable Vegetable]

What I meant to say is that believing is fundamental to religion, but not to science. Depending on your definition, believing means that you accept something as truth without proof. And science is pretty much the opposite of that. A lot of people nowadays seem to have embraced "science" as an alternative religion. The accept a lot of things without thinking, just because "science" says so.

A philosophy is not something to believe in either. Philosophies are studies. The philosophy of science is a study of topics like "what is this science thing and what is it good for?" This does mean that you can reject parts of science as being trustworthy or meaningful, but if you are building a rocket, then you are using still using science. You're assuming all those formulas and things like aerodynamics will work once more.

This rocket man is actually doing his own research and is questioning the principles of science. He is a scientist and a philosophist. He chooses not too stand on the shoulders of the great scientists and philososophers before him. That makes all this rather strange and redundant, but I respect him more than those people who make fun of him "because he is an idiot who doesn't believe in science".

Re:I can't even this morning

[Green Mountain Bot]

You missed the word "implicitly". This guy is explicitly putting his faith in, by trusting his life to, the calculations. Those calculations were derived through the scientific process. Whether or not he knows it, he is putting his faith into the science behind them. He says he doesn't, but his actions show that he implicitly does.

Re:I can't even this morning

[bingoUV]

Depending on your definition, believing means that you accept something as truth without proof. And science is pretty much the opposite of that

With that definition of belief, science ( the philosophical aspect) is definitely a belief. The very idea that next moment Universal Gravitational Constant would remain (very nearly) the same has been accepted without proof by all in the science world. There can be a skepticism in it - but spending effort in finding the laws of nature has an underlying notion of some semblance of stability in those laws for a while. There is no proof of that stability. Even the idea that Logic can be used to argue about physical reality is purely based on faith.

Science has served mankind well, but it is a belief nevertheless, for which there is no proof. Evidence - yes, but that is also within the framework of science. So first science has to be accepted in order for the "evidence" to qualify as evidence. E.g. if I confirm Newton's law of Gravitation, it is no proof it will apply to you. But in the philosophy of science it amounts to evidence that it might apply to you. In some other philosophy, it might amount to bullshit.

A philosophy is not something to believe in either

I said a philosophy is enough (to be able to believe in it). It is possible to believe in a philosophy. E.g. the epistemology of this particular philosophy is the one you resort to when you need to know anything. The metaphysics of this philosophy might be tightly linked with its epistemology.

Philosophies are studies

Bullshit. In a school / university, philosophy is studied - so at times in that context people call it just a "study" - it is like calling Mathematics is a "homework". Or chemistry is a lab lesson in school. In other words - not for grownups.

  Various things are studied, this does not mean they are just "studies". Philosophies can be studied - and not believed in, rejected, or considered to be of special interest, sometimes in specific contexts.

He is a scientist

Did you see a hypothesis that is falsifiable, reproducible and predictive ? Did he get his past findings peer reviewed , or even if he has any peers ? Do you know if he is going to get his findings from his current project peer reviewed ? Is he even using the same brand of Logic that is prevalent in today's scientific circles ?

Especially Occam's Razor seems to have given him the slip as the finding he is setting out to make can be made much more simply in other ways.

Re:I can't even this morning

[Anonymous Coward]

Depending on your definition, believing means that you accept something as truth without proof.

The definition of "believe" is to accept something as true, proof is irrelevant. Maybe you're thinking of "faith"?

Re:I can't even this morning

[Agent0013]

Yeah, but the term "applied science" does not mean any science is being done. There are no hypothesis involved, and no experimentation and no worrying about controls or bias or any of that stuff. Applied science simply means following the formulas that someone has figured out work correctly and using them for your calculations. It is simply using the latest technology and math toward your invention. Not science at all.

Re:I can't even this morning

[Agent0013]

No, using it simply means you believe it is correct. I does not mean anything about what you think about the scientific method or scientific findings in general.

Re:I can't even this morning

[Green Mountain Bot]

If you think it is correct, that means that you implicitly have faith in the process that generated it. Once again, the key word here is "implicitly". One can absolutely implicitly believe something while not explicitly doing so, and that is what is going on here.

Re:I can't even this morning

[Agent0013]

We have medical finding from unethical experiments on people done by horrible people in the past. Does this mean we don't believe the findings and don't use them? Or if we use the knowledge gained, then we "have faith in the process that generated it"? Torture might give you answers. Even if sometimes the information you get turns out correct, that does not mean we should trust the process. You can say something is correct because you tested it yourself without trusting the person that told it to you because they are full of crap most of the time.

Re:I can't even this morning

[Anonymous Coward]

Engineering is NOT applied science.
Science is a sub category of Engineering.
You can be an engineer without being a scientist but you can't be a scientist without being an engineer.

Engineering as a general principle has very little to do with the scientific method.
It's about the process of trial and error.

Coming up for theories for why something works (science) is different.

It pains me how much people confuse science and engineering.

Re:I can't even this morning

[Anonymous Coward]

When the wright brothers invented flight they were applying the well established theory of aerodynamics.

Re:I can't even this morning

[Anonymous Coward]

Missed out the /sarcasm

"As an engineer you are building on science." Completely and utterly wrong.

Re:I can't even this morning

[Cinnamon Beige]

Science is not something to believe in

Yes, it is. To believe in science is to believe that we can learn from our senses and experience; it's the belief that the world you see is the world that exists.

Science involves verifying those beliefs. The belief that the world you see is the world that exists has been tested.

The results were not precisely favorable.

Re:I can't even this morning

[bingoUV]

This verification is valid in the epistemology of science. But if someone's epistemology does not recognize this sort of verification, scientific verification is useless.

The very knowledge representation phase of science keeps in mind the scientific verification step in mind : e.g. verifiability. Some other philosophies don't consider this : so e.g. if you exist, God must exist otherwise who created you ? In this philosophy, God had been verified. It is not a scientific verification, but the initial knowledge representation didn't make scientific verification possible.

Re:I can't even this morning

[Cinnamon Beige]

Of course. But 'Our senses are reliable' failed scientific verification; we can screw with sensory input, and we're working on understanding how it works in part through how we can screw with it.

If you skip the verification step, you're not actually practicing science. The key thing with science is a belief that "The universe is a rational universe, with rules which can be discovered through reason and testing," not a belief that "We can learn from our senses and experience."

Re:I can't even this morning

[bingoUV]

Yeah, i fully agree. I just hope that the GGP post meant "sense and experience" in a way that doesn't mean directly relying on our imperfect sensory inputs.

A crude example : our senses cannot be relied upon to detect the temperature of an object, but mostly can be relied upon to read a thermometer. Ultimately, sensory input was used, but through a proxy that makes better use of our sensory abilities.

But I am dissecting what a third party meant, a hopeless endeavour at best.

Re:I can't even this morning

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, as evidenced by that great engineer, Albert Einstein. Who designed and built the... uh...

Re:I can't even this morning

[mfnickster]

What you're describing is scientism, not science.

Not that there's anything wrong with that. I'm a scientismist myself.

Re:I can't even this morning

[Anonymous Coward]

Wile E. Coyote is actually a pretty diametral example. A lot of his failures were due to cartoon physics not being real physics. This joker here has it kinda backwards ;).

Wile E actually believed in science.. He was just carrying it out poorly..

He just needed a better equipment supplier than ACME Corporation.

Re:I can't even this morning

[Anonymous Coward]

If you're doing engineering by trial and error, you're a pretty shitty engineer.

Granted that's how they used to do it in the ancient world, but once science became a 'thing,' all the trial and error moved into the scientific method and experimentation.

SOME engineering disciplines don't depend much on scientific knowledge, but modern mechanical engineering, electrical engineering, civil engineering, chemical engineering, etc. are all VERY much rooted in science.

I can only recommend that you put your engineering efforts on the back burner for a while and study the history and philosophy of science. Then maybe you can be trusted to hammer in a nail.

Let's hope...

[Anonymous Coward]

Let's hope his test on Saturday goes well and that he proves Darwin's theory of evolution.

Re:Let's hope...

[jellomizer]

The problem is if he survives, then he is going to complain shortly that he doesn't have enough money for his retirement. Because he spend 20k on a junk rocket and probably burned his house down too.

Re:Let's hope...

[idontgno]

It would be a confirmation of his life-view: that there's no difference between science and science fiction.

Appropriate SF quote:

Think of it as evolution in action.

-- Oath of Fealty, Niven/Pournelle

Re:Let's hope...

[Anonymous Coward]

Which is why the Libertarian in me says "boo hoo."

Re:Let's hope...

[cyberchondriac]

Nah, jokes on him. The sky is flat too, it's all over when he crashes into the ceiling.

Re:Let's hope...

[Anonymous Coward]

If him dying though the process would proves Darwin's theory of evolution, then does it disprove it if he lands and lives?

I'm asking because I think it's pretty hypocritical to ridicule someone because they don't believe in science, by means of incorrectly applying a scientific theory. His doing this is (as he claims) absolutely not scientific and won't prove anything.

Re:Let's hope...

[Anonymous Coward]

He's 61. Chances are very low he'll be having any more children (if he had any already).

Re:Let's hope...

[Opportunist]

Science is not a religion. It will apply to you, whether you believe in it or not.

Physics is not just a good idea. It's the law. And unlike man (or god) made laws, you cannot break them.

Re:Let's hope...

[nukenerd]

If him dying though the process would proves Darwin's theory of evolution, then does it disprove it if he lands and lives?

If he dies it will not prove Darwin, only support it. If he lives it won't mean much - there are millions of other idiots who live and pro-create. Evolution is a gradual and probabilistic process.

Nevertheless, we should be ready with the award.

Re:Let's hope...

[jellomizer]

The Libertarian in you is often silent if you are the one who is suffering. (because your condition is unique, and requires extra help)

It takes a real man to suffer and say I don't want help because of my ideals... For most people that isn't the case.

Darwin believes in science.

[Anonymous Coward]

Darwin believes in science.

his troll-fu is weak

[Thud457]

It's gotten to the point where we can't tell the trolls from the idiots. It's just easier to assume they're all idiots.

Re:his troll-fu is weak

[Anonymous Coward]

They are mutually exclusive?

Re:his troll-fu is weak

[jfdavis668]

We need a Venn diagram

Re:his troll-fu is weak

[Anonymous Coward]

( Trol(ls Id)iots)

Re:his troll-fu is weak

[Opportunist]

Then why differentiate? Just watch and enjoy the fallout. Either from a troll making someone blow a gasket or from an idiot blowing himself up, it's all good.

Re:his troll-fu is weak

[Green Mountain Bot]

It's a circle.

Re: his troll-fu is weak

[fortfive]

Poeâ(TM)s law part b?

Re: his troll-fu is weak

[nitehawk214]

LSLD, is that like LSD?

Re:his troll-fu is weak

[FatdogHaiku]

( Trol(ls Id)iots)

It's a circle.

It's a good start on a bulls-eye, which is just what Mr. Hughes needs...

Re: his troll-fu is weak

[persicom]

Or BSD?

Re: his troll-fu is weak

[Gornkleschnitzer]

Perhaps he means $ ls -ld

Darwin Award in the making

[doggo1939]

Doesn't believe in science. Uses science to kill himself.

Re:Darwin Award in the making

[Kokuyo]

While technically possible, I think he's a bit old to be considered for Darwin awards. Especially if he's already procreated. Let's hope he has not.

Re:Darwin Award in the making

[91degrees]

But natural selection is science and he doesn't believe in science, so he's immune.

Re:Darwin Award in the making

[Anonymous Coward]

While technically possible, I think he's a bit old to be considered for Darwin awards. Especially if he's already procreated. Let's hope he has not.

The Darwin award is for removing your genes from the gene pool, so if all his kids are waiting for him at the landing spot he can still qualify.

Science Troll

[Anonymous Coward]

Yall gettin trolled.

Re: Total flamebait article

[sg_oneill]

Can you not please try and speak for the rest of us? Itâ(TM)s a science article about home made rockets , this is a geek site. Itâ(TM)s exactly what the site is about and has always been about , and Iâ(TM)ve been here since the nineties

Re:Total flamebait article

[Anonymous Coward]

i disagree. also captcha: flatness

What is taking him so long?

[Anonymous Coward]

One launch, one less flat earther, lets get them all rockets

Re:What is taking him so long?

[GameboyRMH]

Would any climate conspiracy theorists like a rocket? For taking atmospheric temperature measurements maybe? How about anti-vaxxers, maybe you could see the Illuminati space station where they make autism juice or something? Rockets shouldn't be just for flat-earthers! >:D

Re:What is taking him so long?

[Anonymous Coward]

I hear Trump is interested. However, it is VERY IMPORTANT TO REMEMBER , get your money up front. He has a long history on negotiating price after the work is already done.

Hopefully he gets one for that ugly witch, Kellyanne Conway, too.

Oh, yeah, and one for that dumpy bitch with the crooked-face - Sarah Huckabee Sanders, though he might need two to get her off the ground.

Pass the popcorn

[bjorniac]

"Self-taught rocket scientist..."

This is gonna be good.

Re:Pass the popcorn

[PPH]

Self-taught rocket scientist...

Like Wernher von Braun?

Re:Pass the popcorn

[bjorniac]

No. Von Braun learnt from Ley and Oberth, and did a PhD in physics specializing in rocketry at Friedrich-Wilhelm University.

Re:Pass the popcorn

[DontBeAMoran]

"Self-taught rocket scientist..."

This is gonna be good.

I wouldn't say it's going to be good, but at least it's going to be better than watching a self-taught brain surgeon working on himself.

Re:Pass the popcorn

[tinkerton]

From what I read Von Braun's attitude doesn't seem all that different though. He was willing to sacrifice everything as long as he could play with his rockets.

Re:Pass the popcorn

[number6x]

WvB was smart enough to not launch himself in a rocket. Goddard was also smart enough.

They both knew the Earth was round as well.

Re:Pass the popcorn

[thegarbz]

From what I read Von Braun's attitude doesn't seem all that different though. He was willing to sacrifice everything as long as he could play with his rockets.

Sacrificing everything to achieve your goal may be fine, but there's a big difference between doing so scientifically and doing so believing that formulas aren't science and there's no difference between science fiction and science fact.

Re:Pass the popcorn

[Brett Buck]

Oberth was the real deal, but Willy Ley was more of a promoter and "rocket buff" than he was an engineer. He was somewhat instrumental in VfR but Von Braun learned little or nothing from him. For example, Willy Ley and Nebel came up with the idea to build the combustion chamber into the LOX tank, for instance - what is the partial pressure of LOX at 1000 degrees?

          The VfR was a bizarre assemblage of scientists, publicity seekers/promoters, engineers, machinists, and rocket buffs, and various hangers-on. Von Braun came on as a student but quickly became the brains of the operation, and the results speak for themselves, however you want to interpret them...

     

Re:Pass the popcorn

[tinkerton]

Sacrificing everything to achieve your goal may be fine

Not in Von Braun's case I think, the way he worked with the Nazis. Though there's an ironic twist that his inflated promises to Hitler got him a a lot of engines, in fact his rockets used up so many engines that they did a good job of disarming Germany,

Re:Pass the popcorn

[lgw]

Meh, if he gets the altitude he wanted, he's as right as anyone - rockets don't work by accident. This is his second launch, so I'm betting on his survival.

Science doesn't care if you believe in it.

Re:Pass the popcorn

[Opportunist]

So a few of his early rockets flew short, cut the man some slack. He aimed at the moon, it's due to crappy slave work when they can't fly past London. You get what you pay, ya know...

Re:Pass the popcorn

[Subm]

Well, before them, then. Someone at the start must have been self taught.

It can't be turtles, turtles, turtles all the way down.

Re:Pass the popcorn

[Anonymous Coward]

All of them leaned heavily on the work of Robert Goddard, who was mocked here in America.

Re:Pass the popcorn

[Anonymous Coward]

Since he doesn't believe in science, it should be "Self-taught rocket moron..."

Re:Pass the popcorn

[Anonymous Coward]

And make sure it's video taped.

slashdot anti-intellectualism

[Anonymous Coward]

Not a single person standing up to actually show any evidence that the earth is "round" and instead you all rely on insults and bullshit. For slashdot, belief in a round earth is just RELIGION, like belief in evolution and global warming.

Re:slashdot anti-intellectualism

[MightyYar]

Didn't I see you in the YouTube comments section?

Re: slashdot anti-intellectualism

[Anonymous Coward]

If the Earth is flat, please explain this pic. https://dl0.creation.com/articles/p116/c11646/toronto.gif.

Re:slashdot anti-intellectualism

[Anonymous Coward]

Can you please wait until I'm done with my covfefe before you say something like that? Seriously, it almost came out my nose!

Re:slashdot anti-intellectualism

[lowkeyknight]

GPS

The laser we routinely bounce of the mirror we put ON THE MOON

Photos

The International Space Station

Navigation, that works

Satellites

Eclipses

The position of the stars

The fact that everything based on physics, which requires the earth to be round and the solar system to be heliocentric to work....works.

Facts, provable, replicable, testable science. Just...stop. it's so...damn...sad.

Re:slashdot anti-intellectualism

[habig]

Not a single person standing up to actually show any evidence that the earth is "round" and instead you all rely on insults and bullshit. For slashdot, belief in a round earth is just RELIGION, like belief in evolution and global warming.

High school kids with weather balloons take pictures of its roundness every day. If religion were this easy to prove, we'd all be theologians.

Re:slashdot anti-intellectualism

[Anonymous Coward]

Not a single person standing up to actually show any evidence that the earth is "round" and instead you all rely on insults and bullshit. For slashdot, belief in a round earth is just RELIGION, like belief in evolution and global warming.

I asked in another comment how the whole flat earth thing turned from a Usenet in-joke, to something that Alt-right faggots like yourself find amusing?

Ironically it doesn't appear that any flat-earthers want to tackle such a controversial topic!

Re:slashdot anti-intellectualism

[Anonymous Coward]

I can look out the window and see that the Earth is round. What more evidence do I need?

Consider, if the Earth were flat, I should (with a telescope) be able to see New York City from Pike's Peak. Or Paris from the Empire State Building.

Re:slashdot anti-intellectualism

[Anonymous Coward]

Eclipses prove it is flat. See my other posts. Space is fake. The Earth is flat.

Re:slashdot anti-intellectualism

[Anonymous Coward]

No, just as you can't see forever underwater, you can't see forever through the ground-layer atmosphere.

Re:slashdot anti-intellectualism

[Anonymous Coward]

Sorry to double reply, but I somehow managed to miss this other point:

Everything based on physics doesn't work in your Fake-o-verse: Gravity doesn't work, so they invented dark matter to explain why things don't move the way they would expect, and then invented dark energy to explain why the 'universe' is expanding rather than contracting.

You wouldn't be reading/posting about Flat Earth if there weren't a thousand problems with the round Earth theory. Space is fake.

Re: slashdot anti-intellectualism

[Anonymous Coward]

Pretty obviously faked. Not even a well done fake either. Just look at how *exactly* the tower image lays over the horizon image.

Re:slashdot anti-intellectualism

[Anonymous Coward]

Correction: high school students take pictures of a flat earth using round lenses that distort the view, then claim the resulting image curvature is because the earth is "round". The everyone smugly pats each other on the back for yet more "evidence" of their religious beleif. Modern "science" in a nutshell!

Re:slashdot anti-intellectualism

[Verdatum]

Oooo, I love talking about the evidence! My personal favorite is the ability to bounce radio transmissions off of the ionosphere (sometimes referred to as "skywave") using radio equipment that not only can the average enthusiast afford, if they were so inclined, they could build the equipment from parts, thus dismissing any magic secret stuff in the chips that allows you to target your friend on the other side of the globe. The shape of a flat earth that would be required to achieve the angles that you find, or the shape required of the dome screen on which the celestial bodies appear for the angles to work out right fails to match up with the shapes required to jam their flat peg into that oblate-spheroid hole for all the other astronomical things that they assert. I can't even imagine how mind-blowing that must have been to the first operators who managed this back in 1922. Nowadays, if you only want to receive, unlicensed people can often pull this off with a dirt-cheap shortwave radio.

You can also take that skywave bounce, along with some decent synchronized clocks (which are the norm on modern Internet connected computers) and use the coordinates of the receiver and the transmitter, and the speed of light, to calculate the altitude at which the radio bounce must have occurred. This is why "live via satellite" conversations have that awkward roughly 1-second delay.

Similarly, my father recounts stories of actually looking up the dates when Sputnik was flying overhead and tuning in his amateur radio. The broadcast frequency was published all over, because the Soviets were super proud of their accomplishment. And it didn't take long for the eggheads to work out and publish the dates/times when it would be flying overhead in your local area. It was right there in your local newspaper. The right frequency, the right antenna direction, the right time, and sure enough, he could hear the beeps of that very first satellite. Now the neat thing about satellites is (and this sorta relates to how GPS works too!): you just need 4 friends with directional antennas who are positioned at arbitrary but known coordinates on the globe and once everyone figures out the direction to point such that the signal is at its strongest, you can use fairly simple trigonometry to discover not only the relative position, but also the altitude of the signal's origin (this is also why no foreign governments doubted the moon landing! They knew where the broadcasts HAD to be coming from). Nowadays, there are plenty of satellites that you can do this same experiment upon. My dad didn't go this far, but other amateurs around the globe actively did (and astronomers continue to do with things like the ISS), and then they wrote everything up in their little hobbyist magazines There was no Internet, and they were nerds, they had nothing better to do. Remember, these are nerdy fanboys, generally between the ages of 13 and 35. These are people who would get super-excited to talk to other operators around the globe. They weren't the type to care about things like politics or conspiracies. Short of bribing them all with perfect girlfriends, there wouldn't be much you could to do get them not to share their knowledge with each other. They just liked the science. (naturally, none of them doubted that the earth is oblate-spheroid. And weren't particularly worried about confirming that, because we've known this for plenty of simpler reasons for centuries. My point is that the shape is required for their calculations to validate each other the way that they always do.)

Re: slashdot anti-intellectualism

[Opportunist]

Light gets tired if it has to go long distance and thus "falls down".

I shit you not, that's what I get to hear when I offer similar pictures.

Re:slashdot anti-intellectualism

[Opportunist]

But at least I can look far enough to see the stars. So they're ... how close again? Must be closer than the next large city over.

Re:slashdot anti-intellectualism

[lgw]

GPS

Not a bad argument, but you don't know where that signal is coming from.

The laser we routinely bounce of the mirror we put ON THE MOON

Have you done that? No? So you're just taking someone's word for it.

Photos

Did you take them? No? So you're just taking someone's word they're real.

The International Space Station

Have you been there? No? So you're just taking someone's word for it.

These are bad arguments: they're all "no, really, trust what they're telling you". The opposite of science, really.

This is a good argument: get on a boat, go out some distance on a very clear day, watch the shore gradually sink below the horizon.

Re:slashdot anti-intellectualism

[Anonymous Coward]

There is a difference in the viewing distance possible looking up through the layers of the atmosphere, versus trying to view 'forever' through the lowest layer. This is true whether Earth is round or flat. Sorry for delay in reply, I'm rate-limited. Probably see you in the next fake Space thread.

Re:slashdot anti-intellectualism

[Anonymous Coward]

How these flat-earthers explain timezones? That you can phone your friend in Asia and its is night there, day here?

Re:slashdot anti-intellectualism

[Anonymous Coward]

your friend is being paid off by NASA to hide the fact that it is the same time there.

and/or timecube.

Re:slashdot anti-intellectualism

[Anonymous Coward]

Surely you mean: "If religion was this easy to prove we wouldn't have theologians."
Or: "If religion was this easy to prove we'd all be religious."

Re:slashdot anti-intellectualism

[lowkeyknight]

That's an understandable point, but practicality means that an individual simply does not have the capacity to master all scientific fields, trust is therefore necessary. While it's uncomfortable for some people, apparently, science is collaborative and always has been. No one can hold all the knowledge and experience needed to understand, for example, immunology, genetics, quantum physics, Nano engineering etc etc etc. You have to trust the community, the education process, the accreditation process, the collaborative process, peer review and your understanding of the core principles and the results. You review and when they all align, you trust, when they do not, you can, in your own fields, or areas where you have access to the knowledge and understanding, address the anomalies. That's reality. any other approach will lead to errors, misunderstandings and eventuality insanity, drinking your own urine and being punched in the face by Buzz Aldrin.

Re:slashdot anti-intellectualism

[lowkeyknight]

Gravity doesn't work? I just tested that, and things definitely fall down 100% of the time. Gravity appears to work just fine.

Re:slashdot anti-intellectualism

[lowkeyknight]

so

so

very

sad

Re:slashdot anti-intellectualism

[lgw]

practicality means that an individual simply does not have the capacity to master all scientific fields, trust is therefore necessary.

I disagree. You shouldn't hold any strong opinion on any subject unless you can follow the reasoning on both sides. This is a much lower bar that being able to do original work in a field.

There's this odd unwillingness, especially among intellectuals, to say "I don't know enough to have a firm opinion here". Heavens for fend we not know enough! So instead a religious belief in "the science" has arisen, and that's harmful in many ways.

And, no, I don't have to trust any accreditation process, I hold little faith in such things, as any institution can become corrupt, and most are mildly so. I can, however, reasonably expect an expert in a field to also know how to explain things to an educated layman. If both sides can present compelling arguments, the expert has some work to do. (A great example of this was the talk.origins web site, where convincing-sounding arguments from creationists were debunked at length, without treating the doubter like a fool.)

Re:slashdot anti-intellectualism

[lowkeyknight]

OK, well, that's actually not a response to the argument I made. The community exists and has checks and balances for a reason. Because no system is perfect, but equally no individual can reasonably judge information in all fields no matter how clever and well informed they are, we must find some balance between trust and self reliance. This individualist "it's not science unless you did it yourself" stuff just acts as a drag on progress and strikes me as dangerously fundamentalist and far too concerned with ideological adherence to some sort of extreme libertarianism to the exclusion of reality. Well, that's my opinion anyway, it's a fairly strongly held one. ;)

Not just a river in Egypt

[Anonymous Coward]

It's OK, Mike. Science believes in you.

Won't be able to watch

[Anonymous Coward]

/r/watchpeopledie is banned in Germany.

Re:Won't be able to watch

[Opportunist]

Oh c'mon, you have TOR, you have VPN, either watch people kick the bucket or throw your geek card into the shredder provided.

Is gravity science or science fiction?

[Anonymous Coward]

We are about find out.

Re:Is gravity science or science fiction?

[Opportunist]

It's THE LAW!

The difference between those laws and the ones that we make is that you can't break those, not even with a lot of money.

Man disproves the existence of science...

[Anonymous Coward]

by using the scientific method. I wonder if he's aware of the irony of it all.

Re: Man disproves the existence of science...

[Anonymous Coward]

Not believing in the dogma that is science, and practicing scientific methods are not diametrically opposed.

Have a go

[Anonymous Coward]

And tell us what's over the edge of the flat Earth when you come back!

Re:Have a go

[Anonymous Coward]

But first, get a fly-over-the-edge-of-the-Earth permission from the FAA.

Re:Have a go

[PPH]

This.

Scot Kelly said that if the earth was flat, the edge would be the coolest place for people to visit. People would go there on vacation to look over the edge.

Re:Have a go

[Opportunist]

The FAA now controls what's at the South Pole?

Doesn't believe in science...

[Tomahawk]

...so does some science!

He believes the Earth is flat, and wants to build a rocket so that he can go up and take a look for himself.

So he has an hypothesis and is going to build and experiment to either prove or disprove it...

Maybe his definition of science is a bit different from mine, though...

Re: Doesn't believe in science...

[jordanjay29]

Hey, it's not science. It's "formulas." Apparently those who figured them out just called themselves scientists, those silly people.

Re: Doesn't believe in science...

[timholman]

For much less money, he could launch a weather balloon with a camera on board. The curvature of the earth is obvious at an altitude of 100,000 feet.

I suspect he is more interested in the media attention heâ(TM)s getting from building his rocket.

Re:Doesn't believe in science...

[Anonymous Coward]

He's only going up 1 mile? You can do that just by driving to Denver. Jet planes travel at 7 miles up. This one-man freak show has a ways to go to prove the shape of Earth.

Re: Doesn't believe in science...

[johannesg]

How would you tell the curvature of the sphere from the edge of the disk?

I mean, we are talking about people that are utterly convinced there is an edge, yet somehow afraid to go there and stare into the abyss. If through some miracle he survives, he will be sure to tell us we all got it wrong and the earth is indeed flat. And since he has been "in space", he will count as an expert.

Re:Doesn't believe in science...

[Anonymous Coward]

You're wrong.
1) Spelling.
2) Only one butthurt about Bill Nye and mentioning him is you, cupcake
3) Nobody is just loudly repeating what someone said, other than you with some denier echo chamber owner's screed
4) Nobody is calling him a science denier, they're just pointing out he's a moron and he himself says he doesn't believe in science, which is all everyone is calling him
5) Nobody is making scientists supernatural except your dumb ass claiming they're literal demons incarnate and everyone who listens demon ridden whores because you are really pissed off that your ignorance is not given the attention you demand.

Re: Doesn't believe in science...

[edtice1559]

You would tell because you know that other places (i.e.Asia) exist but you can't see them due to the curvature.

Re: Doesn't believe in science...

[Anonymous Coward]

There are tons of videos on YouTube of time-lapse photography out the window of the ISS, and they are AWESOME.

All fake, of course.

Re:Doesn't believe in science...

[Anonymous Coward]

BRAVO! Science is not a belief system.
    But as humans will do, firm positions often look for an opposite that helps reinforce their own position. So science's exploration of the natural world is elevated as an 'opponent' of the spiritual world.

Re: Doesn't believe in science...

[GameboyRMH]

You could launch balloons in two different places: Pick one place at random, and then pick your second location near the "edge" that was visible in the video from the first launch. You'll see that suddenly there's a new "edge" beyond what you saw before and close to your first launch site, which would not be possible if the earth were a disc, but would make sense if it was roughly spherical. Repeat until you circle the planet if you like.

Re: Doesn't believe in science...

[Anonymous Coward]

So maybe it's a giant rounded 'almost flat Earth' shape

Re: Doesn't believe in science...

[Anonymous Coward]

Hell, tall buildings work. There's a smoke stack with a factory at the bottom of it on the great salt lake. Go across the lake (perfectly flat, as it's water) and notice how though you can see the smoke stack, you can't see the factory at the base.

Re:Doesn't believe in science...

[Anonymous Coward]

...so does some science!

He believes the Earth is flat, and wants to build a rocket so that he can go up and take a look for himself.

So he has an hypothesis and is going to build and experiment to either prove or disprove it...

Maybe his definition of science is a bit different from mine, though...

His belief that the Earth is flat can't be challenged by the proposed experiment, rendering it useless as science. It might qualify as science if it made a falsifiable claim, but he's not going up high enough to detect curvature of the Earth (or lack thereof) according to the prevailing understanding.

This is on par with someone saying 'vaccines cause autism. I didn't get vaccinated and I don't have autism therefore science!'

Re:Doesn't believe in science...

[JonnyCalcutta]

Come on. You're not even trying. Back to troll school for you.

Re: Doesn't believe in science...

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes. They actually were formulists!

Re: Doesn't believe in science...

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't you know Asia doesn't really exist, its a scam by Satan to unleash his little yellow devils upon us to take our good jerbs and turn all our children in weeaboos!

Re: Doesn't believe in science...

[Opportunist]

Yeah, and it ain't gravity that pulls you down, it's weight.

Please, every time I have to talk to one of those flatheads my head hurts.

Re: Doesn't believe in science...

[Anonymous Coward]

Wait, wasn't the curvature of the earth calculated in ancient times to an accurate enough degree? Those were "just formulas" and I'm pretty sure no one was flying, let alone rocketing to whatever height!

Re:Doesn't believe in science...

[Opportunist]

If you want to go up a mile, that can be done WAY easier with WAY less effort and also cheaper. Get a hot air balloon, fire it up, glide upwards. Not only do you get there for a fraction of the cost, but also for a lot longer than a steam powered rocket would.

Re:Doesn't believe in science...

[Opportunist]

This is basically the problem. The test does not qualify as a test for the underlying hypothesis. I cannot challenge the existence of the American continent by sailing off the coast of Spain for a few 100 miles, saying that I didn't see no America and consider that proof for its non-existence.

Re:Doesn't believe in science...

[hey!]

Hypothesis testing is obviously the foundation of science, but it's not the whole thing. There's also building on the successes and failures of others, and thinking critically about your own experiments. Without those things you don't get far.

Here's why building on what other people have accomplished is critical to scientific results. Suppose this guy launches himself as high as he possibly can with his steam cannon. He doesn't see the curvature of the Earth. Impressive as his stunt may be, has he disproved anything? No. It just proves that his chosen method has failed. You need to evaluate methods other people have chosen to reach high altitudes and choose the best or improve on the best you can afford.

Here's a simple example of the importance of critical thinking: given his downrange goals (note he hasn't mentioned his altitude goals) I reckon he's not likely to exceed 500m in elevation. He could get to 8x that altitude simply by climbing nearby Mount Whitney. But even Everest isn't high enough, you need to get 50% higher. For that the best approach would be to build a high altitude balloon. The recent record breaking parachute jumps were done from manned balloons that rose high enough to see the curvature of the Earth (39 km), and a simple manned capsule would be even cheaper.

But if you really want to do science on a shoestring, an unmanned weather balloon is the way to go is an unmanned weather balloon, which is easily cheaper and simpler than trying to steam catapult yourself to 30+ km. In fact you can buy a weather balloon on Amazon for $100 that will reach 35km. That's not as high as the video above, but it's high enough to photograph the curvature of the Earth.

Re:Doesn't believe in science...

[Anonymous Coward]

Wouldn't it be a lot easier and cheaper to simply fly a plane north/east/south/west in a straight (curved) line until he reaches his point of origin? Or do flat-earthers have a conspiracy theory about that as well?

Re: Doesn't believe in science...

[Barefoot Monkey]

Well, you could use "what I'm seeing is actually the edge of the disc" as your next hypothesis, and test it. From the hypothesis, it follows that there is no more ocean or land beyond that point. So all you need to do is travel there and see for yourself. Easiest if you pick a spot that's actually on land.

Alternatively, you could test the "what I'm seeing is the curvature of a sphere" hypothesis by repeating the weather balloon experiment from different locations and seeing if the "edge" remains constant or if it depends on where you're looking from.

Re: Doesn't believe in science...

[Anonymous Coward]

Naturally they're fake.
    And in related topics, I've heard dinosaur bones were placed in the earth by the devil to trick people into disbelieving old earth theory.
Literally I've heard this. Am I allowed to cry?

Re: Doesn't believe in science...

[Anonymous Coward]

Seriously there are FE'rs who claim that the sphere-shape of Earth seen from aerial photography are from 'fish eye lenses'. Heck, even flying in a plane one can note the curve! And no, one's view does not sphere itself as you move your head- (as a fish eye lens would do). The Earth is authentically curved).

Re: Doesn't believe in science...

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, maybe the water is not perfectly flat, maybe it's curved, too - because of the curvature of the Earth - no, wait! Damn, I'm no good at this...

Re: Doesn't believe in science...

[Anonymous Coward]

How would you tell the curvature of the sphere from the edge of the disk?

You would tell because you know that other places (i.e.Asia) exist but you can't see them due to the curvature.

A limitation of human vision. Some people can't see across the room without their glasses.

But the real reason is gravitational lensing. The light coming from the edge of the disk has more time to be pulled down, making the earth appear curved. The same phenomenon is responsible for some parts of the earth appearing to be night while others day despite the sun being present over all of us.

It's very simple once you understand the real science and stop listening to fake news. Sad! /s

This flat-earther thing is fun! Let's go another round.

Re:Doesn't believe in science...

[Anonymous Coward]

I think strapping a camera to the nose cone and retrieving images would do the trick!?

Re: Doesn't believe in science...

[Anonymous Coward]

> But the real reason is gravitational lensing.

Gravity does not exist according to flat-earthers.

> The light coming from the edge of the disk has more time to be pulled down, making the earth appear curved.

If 'light is pulled down' then we would be able to see stuff further away. It needs to be 'pulled up' somehow to make a flat-earth appear curved, but flat-earthers haven't worked that out yet (and nor have you).

Re: Doesn't believe in science...

[Anonymous Coward]

> All fake, of course.

There is a photo used by flat-earther to 'prove' the earth is flat. It was taken from a balloon at some vast height and the horizon is straight.

The photo includes a part of the craft that has a straight rod aerial. In the photo this aerial is shown curved. This demonstrates that the image was distorted to make the curved horizon of the original into a straight line, as a consequence the aerial was distorted into a curve.

But then everything about 'flat earth' is fake. I just don't see the point of why they are doing it.

Re: Doesn't believe in science...

[Anonymous Coward]

> it's not science. It's "formulas."

Are we present at the birth of a new meme?

Re: Doesn't believe in science...

[Anonymous Coward]

How would you tell the curvature of the sphere from the edge of the disk?

Unless you launched from the north pole, you would see the disk edge nearer to you in one direction and farther away in the opposite direction. With a sphere it's equally far to the "edge" in any direction, for any launch site.

Re: Doesn't believe in science...

[mapkinase]

His hypothesis is perfectly scientific. It's verifiable and falsifiable.

Of course, no matter how high he goes these stupid round earthers will claim that he did not go far up enough to notice the curvature

Re: Doesn't believe in science...

[Anonymous Coward]

and all cameras have round lenses, how are you going to take a flat picture with a round lense? get far enough away and the round lense is going to make the earth look curved.

Re: Doesn't believe in science...

[leonardluen]

They were the ones that started the round earth conspiracy in order to subjugate us.

Re:Doesn't believe in science...

[Anonymous Coward]

why doesn't this guys just get on an airplane that goes up past 35-40k feet to have his look-see?

he must believe in fairies and magic, so he knows the plane won't fall from the sky.......

Re: Doesn't believe in science...

[david_thornley]

No, it isn't gravity. It's intelligent falling, done by His Noodly Appendages. Sheesh. Try to keep up.

Re: Doesn't believe in science...

[Tomahawk]

The article mentions that he will build a second rocket to go higher. It is to that rocket that I am referring.

Re:Doesn't believe in science...

[ebvwfbw]

It's a joke. There are NASA scientists that are members of the flat earth society.

Joke, that's a joke son. Boy is about as sharp as a bowling ball.
-Foghorn

I can't say I get it.

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm not really understanding why he needs a rocket. A hot-air balloon would perfectly suffice, be a lot cheaper, and still prove his non-existent point. Still, I'm looking forward to the fireball. Anyone got marshmallows?

Re:I can't say I get it.

[Merk42]

Because, when he inevitably dies from this, the other Flat Earthers will claim he was killed off by some conspiracy to keep the "truth" a secret.

Re:I can't say I get it.

[GameboyRMH]

Anyone got marshmallows?

They may taste like pork and stupid when they're done.

Re:I can't say I get it.

[walterbyrd]

Or he could just fly in a passenger jet.

Re:I can't say I get it.

[Anonymous Coward]

passenger jets don't really fly, they are just a fancy underground high speed train that is surrounded with a projection screen upon which they project images to make it appear you are flying.

i.e. don't question anything...

[Anonymous Coward]

Why is this article on Slashdot? Oh, of course - to equate anybody who questions ANYTHING 'scientific' with a 'flat Earther'. Typical tactic.

Re:i.e. don't question anything...

[DontBeAMoran]

Well, it's a big-ass rocket that will probably ends with an explosion...

Somebody should call mythbusters to do a special episode on this guy.

Re:i.e. don't question anything...

[Anonymous Coward]

They already did - the exploding water heater

So what is his /. UID?

[Anonymous Coward]

NT

First Contact

[macaco]

Zefram... is that you?

Society shouldn't stop him

[mykepredko]

The guy is 61 years old, seems to be holding down a job from which he is able to save for his hobby. He likes to make grandiose statements but if he's applying the "formulas" (rather than the "science") correctly, he should succeed which means that he's not trying to commit suicide publicly.

I don't think anybody can give odds on his success (especially from the article) but I think, as a society, we've become too risk averse and we need to encourage people like "Mad" Mike to go out there. Maybe there's something to a steam powered booster that makes it more attractive/economical than a traditional rocket - this could be the next 10x reduction in launch costs.

Or it could result in a smoking hole in the ground - but if large corporations (ie ULA) aren't creative enough to try radically new ideas like this, then we need the (slightly) nutty among us to push the ideas forwards even if it puts their lives at risk.

Re:Society shouldn't stop him

[naughtynaughty]

If only we had the science to figure out if steam boosters could launch things into space economically or even at all.

Re:Society shouldn't stop him

[gnick]

Maybe there's something to a steam powered booster that makes it more attractive/economical than a traditional rocket - this could be the next 10x reduction in launch costs.

Maybe one day we'll have the tech to test unmanned rockets.

Re:Society shouldn't stop him

[mykepredko]

Manned or unmanned, which gets more public interest/press?

Re:Society shouldn't stop him

[mykepredko]

What I was trying to do was bring in Elon Musk - nobody seriously thought about reusable boosters until he spent a few hours (days?) with a spreadsheet seeing if it could work.

We have the science to do many things; unfortunately many of them are dismissed out of hand because they don't seem feasible to the "experts".

Re:Society shouldn't stop him

[Cinnamon Beige]

If only we had the science to figure out if steam boosters could launch things into space economically or even at all.

The usual problem hasn't been if we've the science, as much as if we've not had somebody willing to insist that the conventional wisdom provide evidence and withstand testing. That's pretty much how science works; if you don't do your best to destruct-test your theories, it's not science, it's religion.

Hope He Attains Delta-V...

[Anonymous Coward]

And overshoots orbital velocity.

Re:Hope He Attains Delta-V...

[Opportunist]

Fairly unlikely to happen.

Orbital velocity at ground level on earth is about 8km/s. A mile or ten up it's still not really in any relevant way different. 8km/s is about 17,800 mph.

To give you an idea what kind of force would push against this rocket: Hurricane Irma, that breeze a few people down in Florida Keys might remember, had a top speed of 185mph.

In other words, take what Irma did and multiply by 100.

The real question

[grasshoppa]

Is how we can encourage this behavior. Encourage everyone who doesn't "believe" in science to take themselves out. It could only help the species.

Of course, we'd lose most of our politicians....so it's really a win/win.

Re:The real question

[Anonymous Coward]

It some cases, it's "doesn't believe in science", but "doesn't believe in the current models". Doofus doesn't believe in science, yet using relatively simple formulas based on Newtonian physics that apply to close-Earth and well below relativistic speeds that are derived through repetitive application of science. Some other models are based on thousands of variables on a chaotic system (of which there are unknowns and assumptions) which have made predictions that have not all come to pass.

I'm sure you'd alluding to the specific case of climate change, but perhaps we're looking at the wrong solution. Instead of trying to reduce and micromanage the global level of CO2 in the earths atomsphere to within 0.005% (we can't even keep most rooms with 5% of the temperature we want), perhaps we need to focus on adjusting to the changes?

Re:The real question

[Anonymous Coward]

And what will those changes be? Who wins and who loses? Some island nations will be wiped off the map, trillions of dollars of costal real-estate will be lost, there will be more super-hurricanes, droughts, wildfires and famine. Not to mention the possible runaway effect of methane locked in permafrost being released into the atmosphere. We simple don't know where it will end and the only adaptation may be "move off the planet." It's probably cheaper to just not fuck it up in the first place.

The people who are funding the resistance to stopping climate change are the ones who stand to benefit the most from the chaos, billionares, who have the stability to exploit chaos. Don't be their sheep. When you "shake things up" you crush the poor, the middle class, the upper middle class, the lower upper class, and the richest 0.1% will always win since they own 50% of everything at this point.

Re:The real question

[JonnyCalcutta]

Good idea. I await your plans with bated breath.

Re:The real question

[Anonymous Coward]

If you "believe" in science you don't understand science.

Re:The real question

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm sure you'd alluding to the specific case of climate change, but perhaps we're looking at the wrong solution. Instead of trying to reduce and micromanage the global level of CO2...

Whoa there. You've got the cart before the horse. Let's not talk about solutions, until we know what the problem is, or if there is a problem at all. Let's talk about what is happening. We can talk about whether or not it's good or bad later, and if we decide it's bad, we can think about "solutions."

I understand that global-warming deniers don't want to pay for their pollution. So I'm not asking them to, yet. But they're saying the pollution doesn't happen, or it's not really pollution because there aren't any negative conseqences to the extra stuff getting into everyone's air.

That's what they're saying, so these are not merely people who disagree with models or think that mitigating or preventing pollution is too expensive. or that we aren't trying the best strategy. They're asserting something about reality, not strategy. They're talking about truth, not values. They're talking about chemistry, not economics.

Is global warming, due to humans releasing CO2 into the atmosphere, happening or not? If it's happening, does it (or will it) have an effect?

Last I heard, Republicans think GW is not happening (i.e. they have taken a surprising position on reality/truth/chemistry, totally separate from their usual take on strategy/values/economics), and (approximately) 100% of the people who study the atmosphere, say GW is happening. Why are we talking about solutions to this problem, when about half of America's voters have taken the position that there isn't a problem to solve? We're disagreeing on very basic, fundamental broad stuff, not minor details of models.

It's not about economics. It's not about values. It's not about strategy. It's not political. It's about whether they think the Earth is mostly spherical, vs planar. It's about whether they're drooling fuckwits vs people who can figure the simplest things out.

Re:The real question

[Anonymous Coward]

How about encouraging people to learn instead of wishing ill will on them.

Don't get me wrong, the guy has some goofy ideas and I'm not sure where the disconnect in his logic is but you can be a better person too. I don't know why people have to go around treating people like this. Most of the people (even here on Slashdot) know little to nothing about real science and even less of them apply it to their lives. What you're doing is contributing to the that throng of hollow headed people. Trust me, you can be a better person.

Re:The real question

[Anonymous Coward]

You'd never convince politicians to do this... ...unless you promised them several million in pocket change on their safe landing.

Re:The real question

[qzzpjs]

The crazy thing is, he is actually performing a scientific experiment whether he believes in science or not. His theory is that the world is flat, and he is building his rocket to test his theory. Smart people would probably just stick a GoPro on a weather balloon. Much easier test...

Breaking news!

[Narcocide]

Rocket scientist trolls entire world by building a rocket out of garbage while claiming not to be a scientist. Plans to adhere to the scientific method while claiming not to believe in science.

Godspeed, you mad scientist. Onward for science!

Re:Breaking news!

[pz]

Ah, someone gets it!

This guy is attempting one of the biggest trolls I've ever seen! The best part is his underlying message, which is pure science: "I don't believe you, and I'm going to check for myself." How much more Aristotelian can you get?

Re:Breaking news!

[Anonymous Coward]

How much more Aristotelian can you get?

He could do it while wearing a toga?

Re:Breaking news!

[Major Blud]

travel about a mile and 500 mph

Is this a mile altitude or distance from launch?

Regardless, he's an obvious troll, because he doesn't need to build a rocket to do this. A Cessna can get him to that altitude.

Re:Breaking news!

[Anonymous Coward]

Aristotelian

I do not think it means what you think it means. Aristotle was pretty much the opposite of scientific. "Experiments? We don' need no steenkin' experiments! We'll just deduce it all logically!"

Re:Breaking news!

[thegarbz]

This guy is attempting one of the biggest trolls I've ever seen!

There's a very fine line between troll and incomprehensible idiot. When the line is so fine that people confuse the two then the "troll" has to be quite the genius. I'm just not seeing that here.

Re:Breaking news!

[Opportunist]

He could for example design a test that actually test what he wants to test.

Re:Breaking news!

[pz]

Did you read the article? He wants to check that the earth is flat (take that at face value if you want to) by going up high enough to be able to see for himself. What test is better than direct observation?

Re:Breaking news!

[Anonymous Coward]

aristotle did not do experiments. Thats what held science back for centuries. He believed you could work things about by simply thinking about them, wasnt till 17th century that experimental science arrived

Re:Breaking news!

[Opportunist]

Well, starting with going up high enough to actually see it would be a start. I read the article. Did you? I'll quote the important part:

"On the morning of the launch, Hughes will heat about 70 gallons of water in a stainless steel tank and then blast off between 2 p.m. and 3 p.m. He plans to go about a mile — reaching an altitude of about 1,800 feet — before pulling two parachutes."

An altitude of 1,800 feet (about 550 Meters) is something you can not only reach far easier (and also safer) than with a rocket, it is also BY FAR not high enough to see whether the Earth is flat or round.

Re:Total flamebait article

[Anonymous Coward]

Not every article needs to be about how Linux gives you a raging hard-on. Piss off.

CAPTCHA: delaying

I dabbled with using virtual machines in security for about 2 years at Carnegie Mellon. It has extreme potential in DRM applications, and shows tremendous promise in preventing IP infractions. We (Craig Curtis, head of theoretical computer science and myself, an aspiring computer scientist) immediately saw it's vast and influential potential, and immediately set to work on virtual machine security.

However, our work became sidetracked when Craig developed an unusual affinity for horse sex. While the applications of the common horse penis in regards to a human are precaurious, to say the least, Craig nevertheless remained determined to not only engage in rapid, pulse pounding horse sex, but to somehow also increase it's efficiency. Craig quickly utilized the powers of virtual machine security to aid him in his ghastly crusade.

After Craig was caught with a horse that he named "El Chancho the long when limp", 8 gerbils, a shrink wrapped box of OpenBSD, a lengthy printout of recent Kuro5hin.org posts, and an Xbox, funding for the project was cut.

Hugh success, for science...

[redmasq]

If he can manage to build a safe vehicle, get his permits, launch, collect his data, safely land, and do a proper analysis... It will be a triumph... for science.

Re:Hugh success, for science...

[iggymanz]

he clearly says outrageous things to market himself; he's already done better than 9 out of 10 marketing wanks

Re:Hugh success, for science...

[DontBeAMoran]

It will be a triumph... for science.

It sure will be. But shouldn't your post title be "Hughes success"?

Re:Hugh success, for science...

[Anonymous Coward]

The safe part certainly remains to be seen, his last attempt left him in hospital for 3 days.

And why exactly would it be a triumph for science? He isn't doing anything new.

Good idea?

[jqpublic13]

Wait, wait, wait... this is a terrible idea...

(Grabs popcorn)

Okay, you can proceed now.

Darwin Award Winner 2017

[RumGunner]

Calling it now.

Re:Darwin Award Winner 2017

[DontBeAMoran]

Is there different categories of awards?

This would surely win "Most expensive Darwin Award".

Apparently...

[Anonymous Coward]

I've heard that when he reaches the highest point in his planned trajectory, the canopy will blow open, an AR-15 will be placed into his hands by a robotic arm, and he will then proceed to commit the highest altitude mass shooting in American history.

Afterwards the FBI will get a court order to unlock his phone, only to discover that he has become the first person to truly achieve the American dream.

he better not

[Anonymous Coward]

poke a hole in the firmament with that rocket or Im gonna be pissed!

See little Billy, ...

[pedz]

this is how easy it is to dupe 99% of mass media, slash dot, and the population.

Here's a question

[lowkeyknight]

If you donate to or encourage this obviously mentally-ill man's provably wrong, insane, expensive, public suicide attempt, are you, in any way culpable for the consequences?

This is going to end well

[Groo Wanderer]

Not for him though.

let's get this straight

[dAzED1]

so $20,000 to go 1800 feet up(probably not), to take a picture, to see for himself whether the Earth is flat. Or, or, and I'm just spitballing here, but he could spend $500 to get to 39,000 feet, on a ticket from LA to Hawaii, otherwise known as 40 times less for 22 times as high.

Re:let's get this straight

[Anonymous Coward]

Arlines are working with NASA to protect the ball earth conspiracy. So flat earthers claim, at least. But he could have spent half of that $20,000 on a paramotor and gone up 14,000 ft on nothing but a soft wing, a harness and a 2-stroke powered fan.

Re:let's get this straight

[wonkey_monkey]

so $20,000 to go 1800 feet up(probably not), to take a picture, to see for himself whether the Earth is flat.

No. There's nothing to indicate he's doing this particular stunt to get any evidence.

It seems his long term plan is for this test to lead to a future journey into spaaaaace (between the ears).

Anyway, there's plenty of evidence in favour of a round Earth that you can gather simply by going outside.

Re:let's get this straight

[Opportunist]

Airlines are working with NASA now? Ain't it enough that they spray chemtrails all over us?

Re:let's get this straight

[omnichad]

Or better yet, get a ticket from LA to Russia and see himself going around the top of the flat earth.

Re:let's get this straight

[Cajun Hell]

That involves trusting someone to honestly operate the aircraft and believe them when they claim to have reached that altitude. He wants to actually see from a verified high altitude, not look at the simulated imagery that the airlines show outside the un-openable windows inside of their sealed little theaters.

Were you insane, you would have thought of this.

Re:let's get this straight

[Anonymous Coward]

No, planes has round windows that to make the Earth look round.

Re:let's get this straight

[Anonymous Coward]

You're forgetting that those commercial airlines with their chemtrails are part of the conspiracy, obviously they drug their passengers and project falsified round earth images on the windows!!!

Mock him all you want

[the_skywise]

But this guy is doing more real science and engineering than most of us ever will.
Oh sure, he mocks the terms - but I interpret that as mocking the orthodoxy. "You can't do that - y'all aint got no degree and learnin!".

Re:Mock him all you want

[gweihir]

Funny. And in actual reality he does not beyond a very basic level of mechanical engineering. He is doing zero science.

Re:Mock him all you want

[Opportunist]

No, he's not.

If he designed a test that would actually test his hypothesis, I'd applaud him. But the test fails at this, even if it succeeds. It cannot prove a flat or round earth.

If going up for a mile was enough to see whether the earth is flat or round, anyone climbing a mountain would be able to tell you. Anyone who ever boarded a plane could tell you. And a lot of people doing parachuting or hanggliding or riding in hot air balloons would be able to tell you exactly this.

It's absolutely commendable that he wants to prove his hypothesis, but to do this his test has to be applicable to the question.

Re:Mock him all you want

[Anonymous Coward]

Real science? Not. You can show that the Earth's surface is curved by using two or more sundials, In fact, you can even figure out the radius of curvature of the Earth. Eratosthenes did this in about 200 B.C., and came up with a figure that is within a few percent of the modern value.

You can't do "real science" if you are that ignorant of the field you are working in. The root word of "ignorant" is ignore. That is not the way of science.

Re:Mock him all you want

[Anonymous Coward]

> If going up for a mile was enough to see whether the earth is flat or round, ...

Going up just a hundred foot or two is enough to prove the earth is round - if you do it correctly.

At a sea beach or large lake with islands a few miles offshore, observe an island closely from sea-level (lying on the beach at the water's edge), then observe from the cliff top.

Re:Mock him all you want

[Anonymous Coward]

> Real science? Not. You can show that the Earth's surface is curved by using two or more sundials, In fact, you can even figure out the radius of curvature of the Earth. Eratosthenes did this in about 200 B.C., and came up with a figure that is within a few percent of the modern value.

If you take a room with a central ceiling light and set up vertical pegs of the same length on the flat floor you will see that the lengths of the shadows will vary. This can approximate what Eratosthenes did and does not show that the Earth's surface is curved. Other method's were used to show that. What Eratosthenes did to figure out the radius of the Earth correctly relies on the Sun being a large distance away. Flat-earthers claim the the Sun is much smaller that the Earth and only a short distance above the surface, thus shadow lengths vary as they do in a room.

> The root word of "ignorant" is ignore. That is not the way of science.

No, it is etymology.

Re:Mock him all you want

[Anonymous Coward]

All that proves is the lake is on a hill. :-P

He could go to Austealia for a week.

[Anonymous Coward]

And pop outside and look for where the north pole star is that everything is rotating around. THAT would prove the flat earth wrong, even if it doesn't prove the globe earth round. And cost a shitload less than 20 grand.

Doesn't believe in science...

[Anonymous Coward]

... but is showing the most powerful part of science... NATURAL SELECTION.

Steam Powered Rocket

[Anonymous Coward]

Seems like no one would trust this man with pyrotechnics and he is limited to using steam power for his rocket.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steam_rocket
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Specific_impulse

Nutter... Nutter... Nutter...

[Anonymous Coward]

Does anyone have a mailing address? I want to send a "When I Was A Kid We Had Nine Planets!" shirt to this nutter.

Re: Nutter... Nutter... Nutter...

[Anonymous Coward]

Reiner affiliate spam.

Re: Nutter... Nutter... Nutter...

[Anonymous Coward]

Creimer affiliate spam. Mod down.

If he's running a kickstarter

[Anonymous Coward]

Then he's not trolling, except for cash, and he wants gullible flat earthers to pay for it, not slashdot. So according to one poster, they've been scammed, but that's the sum total of them so far.

Two words: see ya!

[Anonymous Coward]

Wouldn't wanna be ya!

Re:Two words: see ya!

[Opportunist]

I don't know if I wanna see him. At least not in the "after" shots.

I remember...

[Anonymous Coward]

I remember when the whole Flat Earth thing was just a joke Usenet group. I am totally baffled as to how it transformed from a geeky in-joke into an organising principle for a bunch of Nazi shitbags.

Can somebody possibly illuminate me? I hope you don't think I'm being lazy, it's just that I don't think this is the kind of question that Google is really going to help with.

Re:I remember...

[gweihir]

The morale is to never start a ridiculous cult, as there will always be people stupid enough to take it seriously and make it a reality.

Re:I remember...

[Camel Pilot]

I have Facebook friends who are Flat Earthers... the primary motivation is religion. I have been told by these fellow that NASA maintains guards on the Ice Wall in Antarctica to prevent you from learning the truth.

The S in NASA stands for Satan. There is vast conspiracy trying to keep you from finding out the truth of the Bible... No kidding.

More accurate headline

[crypticedge]

Man publicly announces suicide attempt due to his refusal to accept reality.

This ought to be good

[EndlessNameless]

He did a quarter mile test jump already, so the vehicle functions. At least marginally.

A mile-long rocket-boosted jump isn't that much of a difference from what he already achieved. I'm thinking there's a decent chance of success.

BUT

He also wants to go to space in the future. That is a huge leap in difficulty and risk. Plus, being a flat earther precludes him from having a full understanding of orbital dynamics. I don't understand how he could plan any kind of trajectory. What physics is he working with?

So, I expect death eventually---assuming the FAA doesn't put their foot down on his space ambitions.

But man, if they quash his space launch after a publicized atmospheric test, I can only imagine how much louder the flat earthers will howl about a conspiracy. Maybe that's the entire point.

He should bring a lot of wine and crackers

[DontBeAMoran]

Just in case he overshoots and lands on the moon.

(No seriously) Good for him !

[Wrath0fb0b]

Honestly, the guy is a nut, but good for him. If he wants to prove it himself, he's bought into the cruz of science even if he's totally loony.

Science has nothing to hide, and certainly nothing to gain from giving this guy a persecution complex by forbidding him from doing as he pleases*. Can you imagine "I built this rocket and the Forces That Beâ forbade me from launching it because they knew it would expose their secrets"?

* If he's really doing it over uninhabited land. Obviously we should completely stop him (or help correct him) if he does this in a way that can hurt others.

Way cool, but needs a better chute! [Re:OMGQ]

[Geoffrey.landis]

I wonder if the mechanics of landing are just formulas or "science fiction"

TFA says that he plans to open two parachutes, and presumably float to safety.

Yeah. Take a look at the chute on his first launch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
Definitely needs some rethinking, and, yes, a second chute is a really good idea.

With that said, though: this is really cool!

another yootoob, this one with still pictures from a test a few months later. You definitely did not want to land inside THAT rocket! https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

For those old enough to remember, this is not very different from what Evil Knievel did when jumping the Snake River canyon.

Strike "what Evil Knievel did". Substitute "what Evil Knievel tried to do.

Here's the answer: no.

[Anonymous Coward]

Moreover he's not trolling as others demand, he's scamming. And those flat earthers are the ones being scammed, so I can't feel any pity for their gullibility. He's responsible for his actions. Even if he doesn't have free will.

Maybe

[boudie2]

Maybe he grabbed some woman's boobs ten years ago and now has little choice. Charlie Rose is probably wishing he thought of this right about now.

Re:Maybe

[Anonymous Coward]

you misspelled pussy

Earth is flat. Space is fake. Eclipses prove it.

[Anonymous Coward]

With a few careful observations, you can begin to understand that the
heliocentric model is a lie, and you live on a flat plane.

Solar Eclipse: https://vimeo.com/230976895
Corona not shaped in a spherical configuration; orients toward Earth. Corona lines can be observed to move faster than the speed of light. Light of the corona can be observed on the back of the moon. Light of the chromosphere can be observed on the back of the moon. Light of protuberences can be observed on the back of the moon. Sun and Moon same size and near

Lunar Eclipse: https://vimeo.com/92378881
Irregular shadow shape, progression. Shadow is black, then changes color to reddish: Shadows don't change color. Moon glow of uneclipsed portion increases as shadow becomes reddish, detail lost. Moon has no rotation(see Nikola Tesla): we always see the same face. Moon emits own light. Craters not from impacts: Too round.
No model of the lunar eclipse correctly captures it:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/capital-weather-gang/wp/2014/10/06/why-does-the-moon-turn-red-during-a-lunar-eclipse/
https://www.timeanddate.com/eclipse/in/usa/scottsdale?iso=20140415
Next lunar eclipse: January 30/31, 2018 North America

Re:Total flamebait article

[Pascoea]

Quit posting this stupid shit on Slashdot! There are a million other garbage sites people can go to read this tripe

I'm not sure if you realized this or not, but you clicked the link to get to this article, read it, and posted about it. Slashdot didn't do it for you. Don't like it? Don't click on it.

that is NOT what your core, loyal audience wants here!

We can't, as a the Slashdot community, collectively reach the same conclusion on one single subject, but we have found the one person that feels they can represent our group in its entirety. PeeAitchPee 2020! PeeAitchPee 2020! PeeAitchPee 2020!

Antarctica: Attempt no landings there

[Anonymous Coward]

It's illegal to go below 60 S latitude, which is where many believe the outer limit (or known land) of a flat Earth would be. So it can't be done by law.

Re:Antarctica: Attempt no landings there

[Opportunist]

Illegal by what jurisdiction?

Re:Antarctica: Attempt no landings there

[Anonymous Coward]

Antarctica Treaty. Soon followed by Outer Space Treaty.

Re:Antarctica: Attempt no landings there

[Opportunist]

Odd. I can buy tickets for a trip to Antarctica. They're not exactly cheap, but available.

Re:Antarctica: Attempt no landings there

[Anonymous Coward]

and it is enforced by the UN, NATO, the League of Nations, and the Justice League.

He reflects the establishment

[Tablizer]

"I don't believe in science; it's fake news, believe me. I know more than scientists and the generals. I will dis-invite that total loser Einstein from the White House. All his equations: Faaake! I can do rocket surgery in my sleep, partly because I got a bigly rocket in my Pence, I mean pants. And let's stop Buck Schumer's idiotic practice of buying rocket parts from Jiina; Make American Rockets Great Again!"

Re:He could go to Australia for a week.

[Anonymous Coward]

That doesn't say anything about the Earth. It is an observation of the heavens. It is an unsupported assumption to say that Earth and the heavens are the same.

I, for one, will root for him

[snookiex]

I do wish him to succeed. I like people who are not afraid to get their hands dirty and actually build stuff.

How do we know this isnt a conspiracy

[Anonymous Coward]

To have a 'flat earther' tell the rest of us that the earth isnt flat?

Im not buying it.

Re: Total flamebait article

[Trailer Trash]

It's a geek site, and yet you're either trademarking a bunch of a's with little hats or they still haven't figured out Unicode 20 years in.

Fuck that shit. I'll LOL if he dies in orbit...

[Anonymous Coward]

Here's to hoping he reaches orbit and sees a round Earth before he dies.

Re:Fuck that shit. I'll LOL if he dies in orbit...

[Opportunist]

Unlikely. At sea level you'd have to go 8km/s to orbit the planet (which is kinda hard to pull off with air resistance and all that, hence we usually go up a few kilometers first). Still, even up there in LEO you still need about 7.5km/s to stay up there.

That's about 17,000 mph for you imperials out there.

Re:Earth is flat. Space is fake. Eclipses prove it

[Anonymous Coward]

Shadow is black, then changes color to reddish: Shadows don't change color.

I have a set of blue opalescent glassware in my kitchen that have shadows that go from black to red in the center... turns out that type of glass is blue because of Rayleigh scattering just like in air. I've heard a similar effect can be done with a large pitcher of diluted milk.

Corona not shaped in a spherical configuration; orients toward Earth. Corona lines can be observed to move faster than the speed of light.

News to me after spending years studying the speed of effects in the corona as it is important to understanding reconnection in plasma physics... usually the problem is that things in the corona move too slow compared to an older, incorrect model of reconnection that predicted it would move much faster.

But I guess that is a more "subtle" issue, and maybe you should first work out problems with a theory that can be disproved in anyone's kitchen.

Making Earth Flat Again

[PopeRatzo]

"I don't believe in science," said Hughes

I think Trump may have found his new director of NASA.

Obligatory

[Anonymous Coward]

It could be that the purpose of your life is only to serve as a warning to others.

What is this stunt going to achieve?

[gotan]

From the article:
He plans to go about a mile â" reaching an altitude of about 1,800 feet â" before pulling two parachutes.

One can easily get to that height (and much more) even in a small plane, providing much better controlled conditions for making photos or measurements. That could be hired for a few hundred bucks at most.

Even cheaper: climb a mountain.

Hold on...

[cmdr_klarg]

Is it named the Vulture? His goal is the moon!

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt00...

Re:Hughes success, for science...

[redmasq]

I stand corrected. *tips hat*

too soon?

[Thud457]

All I know is that I'm staying THE HELL outta any damn homemade submarine that guy's built.

Re: Total flamebait article

[houghi]

I also do not understand the hate. He is more excentric than dangerous. And a steamengine powerd rocket? I do not care if it moves at all, I want to see that. This is like a person building a house from matches. Sure it won't pass fire inspection, but it is impressive no matter what.

I wish him all the best and even secretly hope it works. Because that would be awesome: a steampunck rocket going to the moon as if it was written by Jules Verne. Who can be against that?

Re:Total flamebait article

[hawkinspeter]

Fuck you!

You can't go out into space, man

[mark_reh]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

It's not suicide!!

[Cajun Hell]

Technically it's misadventure, not suicide. Just like how "it's not a lie, if you believe it", it's not a suicide, if you believe you'll survive. And this guy is very good at believing things! Stop doubting his conviction and sincerity, and start supporting your fellow human being. What kind of misanthropic monster are you?

If he was a self-taught neurobiologist

[Brannon]

and he was teaching us all that women are genetically inferior then he would be a hero here. The /. crowd is very flexible on its fealty to science.

Re:Earth is flat. Space is fake. Eclipses prove it

[Anonymous Coward]

Please watch the lunar eclipse video carefully. The shadow changes color. I do not mean it is one color in one area, and another color in another area, and they move across the moon in a fixed configuration. I mean the shadow, in one place, changes color. That can't happen.

Missed by that much.....

[cogeek]

Are the Darwin Awards still around?

Hmmm

[Anonymous Coward]

Wouldn't it be easier and cheaper to put a gopro on a balloon?

Baring that please make sure this launch is filmed!

Sponsored by Looney Tunes

[Camel Pilot]

LOL... Look at the clean aerodynamics on the second picture... at 500 MPH!!!

https://storage.googleapis.com... [googleapis.com]

And then oh boy the sponsors

https://storage.googleapis.com... [googleapis.com]

He really needs to add Looney Tunes as a sponsor because I believe this was inspired by watching too many cartoons as a child.

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Smokin' Some Whacky Tabaccy!

[Anonymous Coward]

Anti-science guy manages to say something both pro and anti-science, all in the same sentence.

"I know about aerodynamics and fluid dynamics and how things move through the air, about the certain size of rocket nozzles, and thrust. But that's not science, that's just a formula..."

OK, you crazy Flat Earther you! Carry on calculating your not-sciency aerodynamics and fluid dynamics!

NanoLube

[ISoldat53]

There is something ironic about a phallic -shaped device sponsored by NanoLube.

Wat

[x_t0ken_407]

I don't believe in science...I know about aerodynamics and fluid dynamics and how things move through the air, about the certain size of rocket nozzles, and thrust. But that's not science, that's just a formula.

You keep using that word. I don't think it means what you think it means.

Re:Wat

[Anonymous Coward]

It would be more accurate to say that he doesn't believe in science, but he does believe in engineering.

Re:Wat

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't think belief means what you think it means.
You don't believe in science, belief is that other thing which is not science.

Re:Wat

[Anonymous Coward]

That is how science used to be defined. Today science is all about conducting studies to determine the exact number of climate scientist believe in man made global warming or how many cups of coffee it takes to show an extremely marginal correlation between coffee drinking and pancreatic cancer.

Sure, back in the 1950's fluid dynamics would have been considered science, but not today. Words have different meaning based on the time a culture they are spoken. I'm not sure what branch of knowledge fluid dynamics should fall under, but fluid dynamics has nothing at all to do with 'science' as practiced on the internet and the media.

Most rockets are steam powered

[FeelGood314]

It's what you get when burning hydrogen and oxygen. This is a great troll.

Re:He could go to Australia for a week.

[Opportunist]

But shouldn't a flat earth allow you to see all stars anywhere on the disc?

Human "progress"

[Anonymous Coward]

In circa 200 B.C, Eratosthenes did an experiment using nothing more than a couple of sundials and a formidable intellect, which showed that the Earth's surface was curved. He measured the Earth's radius and got within a few percent of the modern value.

After 2000+ years of human "progress", we have people like "Mad" Mike Hughes who are a) dumbasses and b) get more press than most respectable scientists. How disappointing.

Flat Earthers. LOL

[Anonymous Coward]

There needs to be a reality TV show where we get a bunch of flat Earthers together. The prize money is 10 million dollars. First one to find the edge wins. And go.

Let's hope he is killed

[Anonymous Coward]

It will leave one fewer idiot on the planet.

Re: Total flamebait article

[Anonymous Coward]

Chortle chortle.

Funnily enough I had sex with a Carnegie Melon. Lovely round figure. It was all I could do to wait till she was really ripe.

Scientist and not self-taught

[Roger W Moore]

Like Wernher von Braun?

No not at all like Wernher von Braun. von Braun had a degree in engineering and took part in liquid-fueled rockets tests while a student at TU Berlin. So he was not really self-taught and he clearly believed in science and knew what it was. This idiot is not a scientist, he just using formulae without grasping the big picture of what is going on which is dangerous because there is no guarantee that he has applied them correctly.

Re: Scientist and not self-taught

[Anonymous Coward]

THat idiot, as you call him, built his own rocket using steam power. What have you fucking built?

Re: Scientist and not self-taught

[Anonymous Coward]

I built a dumbshit detector.

BEEP BEEP BEEP

Re:Scientist and not self-taught

[Anonymous Coward]

he is the engineering equivalent of a script kiddie

Re: Scientist and not self-taught

[Roger W Moore]

THat idiot, as you call him, built his own rocket using steam power.

Any idiot can build a steam rocket. They have been around since the first century AD. The trick is to build one powerful enough to carry a person and with enough control to safely fly and then land without killing that person. He hasn't even shown that his rocket works, let alone that it is powerful enough and can fly safely.

What have you fucking built?

Lots of things but how about we go for part of one of the experiments which found the Higgs boson. How about yourself?

...and Charles Darwin Smiles From R'lyeh...

[Anonymous Coward]

Sadly, it has become apparent that Idiocracy was a documentary.

He's an idiot...for not using balloons

[slashmydots]

If that Felix guy got practically into orbit with balloons and that juts sounds easier, safer, and cheaper, then why doesn't this guy use them? Whatever, I hope he dies.

One step beyond

[Anonymous Meoward]

He could have just strapped a bunch of weather balloons filled with helium to a lawn chair, like a normal idiot, but no-o-o-o-o....

Most rockets are steam powered

[FeelGood314]

Steam is what you get from burning Hydrogen. He's trolling and 99% of Slashdot fell for it.

Re:Total flamebait article

[nwaack]

Quit posting this stupid shit on Slashdot!

False. Please keep posting hilarious nerd-related stuff like this on Slashdot.

Don't believe in science....

[Brostenen]

Ohh, and how was the priciples of earodynamics discovered? Shurely not with the use of science. This is basically a nutcase, trying to use the fruits of science to commit suicide. Let him. One less nutcase on this planet.

No, that is science.

[Anonymous Coward]

Sorry, dear, your claim is incorrect.

Why do you hate natural selection?

[Anonymous Coward]

Stop him? NO. Encourage him! Have him take TrumpCheneyHillaryBlankfein for the trip! And PutinKhomeiniKimchiYongIl on another rocket for an ehrm in-air meet-up!

Re:Earth is flat. Space is fake. Eclipses prove it

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes it can. The edge of the earth is covered with an atmosphere, through which light will be made more red before it is extinguished by the earth's body. You can see the same effect every sunrise and every sunset. So when the moon is hidden by the edge of the earth from the sun's rays, some of it will be in daylight, some in the effect of the sunset on the earth and some in the dark shadow of the earth. And since the moon moves around the earth, that will change with time.

The colour of the shadows can change.

Come Together!

[Anonymous Coward]

can we start a fund to shoot all the flat-earthers into space? That would solve everyone's problem. I'll chip in!

Seriously?

[Murdoch5]

This is the result of a failing education system that doesn't put enough stress on science and mathematics.

Darwin Award

[Anonymous Coward]

in 5...4...3...2...1

Amboy Is Not A Ghost Town

[careysub]

It is really small, and much smaller than it once was when it was a regular train watering station, and Route 66 was a major national road, but Amboy is NOT a ghost town! It has a population of 4, it has a gas station, and it has a post office!

It is just about the darkest site in Southern California, and good for doing astronomy in the area.

Incorrect. The FE claim is it rotates around NP.

[Anonymous Coward]

And when he takes a photo one night he will see the stars rotate, but they won't be around the north polar star. Even if he thinks he can't see where the North Pole star IS from there because "too far away", he CAN see 100% of the stars visible from Australia and see where THEY are traveling. Which will be about a point that isn't Polaris.

maybe watch a movie

[WillRobinson]

Maybe he should watch Rocket Farmer once or twice. Or maybe he's been watching it to much..

You all wanted to do this at some point. :)

[wolfheart111]

Common, everyone has wanted to build their own rocket. If anything at all, it would be fun as hell. :)

Flat Stanley says ...

[Anonymous Coward]

welcome to Flat Earth!

Fall off the edge

[Anonymous Coward]

He could have saved the $20K and just fell off the edge of the Earth.

Get the popcorn...

[riley]

Can't fix stupid. The only thing you can do is try and minimize the collateral damage.

1,800 Feet

[Anonymous Coward]

FTFA he only plans to reach an altitude of 1,800 feet. He could do this for a lot less money and personal injury by buying a ticket to see the top of the World Trade Center.

There are cheaper ways...

[zarmanto]

Let's not misunderstand what he's doing here; it has nothing whatsoever to do with attempting to prove or disprove anything at all. The whole flat-earth thing is just an excuse to get someone with deep enough pockets to fund his stunt rocket. The reality is, it would be so much cheaper (and safer!) to exceed the altitude he's going to reach by just chartering a flight on most any airline; they routinely achieve altitudes of 35,000 feet, (6.6 miles) and tickets for the flight wouldn't come even remotely near to the cost of his $20K publicity stunt.

Which, by the way, is all that this is, in the end... because you can't readily see the curvature of the earth until you reach at least 50,000 feet. (Modern airlines don't generally reach that high, since they grounded the Concorde.)

Re:There are cheaper ways...

[Anonymous Coward]

I have been to that facility. That makes me weird. I can launch him to 62 miles for about $300k. I do not see him volunteering. I can do that in 3 months flat. I also met the guy he rents the property from. There is drama there because he took stuff from the government, other rocketeers, and about 3 other people I know. They are schemers and scoundrels. I sooooo want to launch their ass! "Let's roll".

Re:There are cheaper ways...

[zarmanto]

... I can launch him to 62 miles for about $300k. I do not see him volunteering. ...

I appreciate the thought, Elon -- but to be fair, most people can't afford your $300K price tag for what amounts to a simple joy ride. (Besides, all he really wants is to squeeze in his five seconds of fame before departing this world... and that apparently only costs about $20K.)

Re:There are cheaper ways...

[Anonymous Coward]

You can get there on a LearJet 45 where apparently the ceiling is 51,000 feet. I've heard that you can see the curvature at 45K. Contracting a LearJet would sure be a heck of a lot safer and cheaper. There is no end to the stupidity here; apparently he only plans on reaching 1800 feet. You can climb that high!

Easier with $150 Balloon Camera

[Anonymous Coward]

Rockets are so 70's. Welcome to 2017 (or actually 2011). With only $150, you can send a camera into space.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/flight/how-to/a6568/how-to-launch-a-camera-into-space/

Re:Easier with $150 Balloon Camera

[Anonymous Coward]

17.5 miles is NOT into space, not even close. However, it's probably high enough to serve this guy's purpose.

Also, protip: <url> tag - learn it, know it, use it!

Darwin award in future

[darktwains]

Buff said

Re:Total flamebait article

[Headw1nd]

What? This is the best article /. has had in months.

A solid candidacy ...

[Anonymous Coward]

...for a Darwin award!

Correction to Story

[Hallux-F-Sinister]

Man decides to commit suicide in elaborate and interesting fashion; wants audience to see him die.

"I don't believe in science" says person who has either severe cognitive deficits, or difficulties with English.

I believe someone should sit down with this man and explain what science is and isn't. What it isn't: men in lab coats with egg-shaped heads, speaking in a cryptic and arcane fashion, lording secret knowledge above everyone else. What it is: an algorithm for applying common sense to observations, and a means to test ideas. A natural offshoot of this is experimentation, where reason (common sense,) is applied to create a scenario in which observations can be made that will tend either to confirm, or disprove, specific things.

I believe when someone claims not to believe in science, what he really means is that he doesn't trust the lab-coated, egg-headed, cryptically-speaking, often socially awkward, neurotic individuals shown to us on television and movies, (media that only exist thanks to scientists, ironically,) which lend people naturally to distrust them, given the survival tactic of fearing the unknown that has mostly stood humanity in excellent stead to survive from prehistory to today, though it is sometimes, (as is the case when a polluted environment slowly and inexorably dooms all mammal-kind to give way to the next dominant form of life after we, as a species, snuff ourselves out,) disadvantageous after all.

He's right

[Time_Ngler]

He is sure going to gloat when he proves himself right over the round earthers

Re:Earth is flat. Space is fake. Eclipses prove it

[Anonymous Coward]

Watch an actual lunar eclipse. You are describing what SHOULD happen, and what SHOULD be seen. You are not describing reality.

Apparently this years Darwin awards won't be

[Anonymous Coward]

Apparently this years Darwin awards won't be complete without a special entry from Mike Hughes, good luck to you sir, because you're going to need it.

Re: Total flamebait article

[sg_oneill]

Just noticed that. My apologies

He doesn't believe in science...

[MerlTurkin]

...Yet uses science to fly his rocket. GENIUS!

Behold the brave new age of the steam rocket!

[Picodon]

years building a steam-powered rocket

I’m hoping that he’ll be heating his water tank by burning American coal, though. What this country needs to regain its leadership in space is coal-fired steam rockets.

He believes what he believes, including that the Earth is flat. (...) Down the road, he’s intending to build a rocket that takes him to space, so he can snap a picture and see with his own eyes.

As for checking whether the Earth is flat, someone’s got to tell him that he doesn’t need to build a more powerful rocket. All he needs to do is drill a hole deep enough to go through the pancake and jump. After he falls far enough from the bottom of the planet, he just needs to look up and he should be able to see the plane of Earth in space. But, who knows, perhaps he will be able to use his steam rocket to drill the hole.

Oh and, Californians, rejoice! The article also says:

Following his jump, he said he’s going to announce his plans to leap into the race for governor of California.

DO A FLIP!

[tralfaz2001]

At least make a memorable video.

Real-time video of that 2014 launch

[Picodon]

The first video that you mentioned is interesting for slow-motion visual detail, but viewers might like to know that it was apparently slowed by a factor of 10, compared to the original which can be seen here on YouTube. Total flight duration: about 20 seconds. The real thing looks quite a bit less NASA-esque than the slow-motion version!

It’s also pretty obvious that he was not actually in that “manned flight”. Look at the crumpled results (expected from the shredded parachute!) in the still photographs from the second video, where you can also see him standing casually around, wearing T-shirt and shorts (rather than some protective gear), identical to what he was wearing just before the flight (beginning of video).

Re:Real-time video of that 2014 launch

[Geoffrey.landis]

Thanks!

Re:Earth is flat. Space is fake. Eclipses prove it

[Anonymous Coward]

As someone who has traveled to see almost a dozen total lunar eclipses now and spent more than most do on hobbies in order to get photos and videos of said eclipses, telling me to watch an "actual lunar eclipse" about to you just projecting a strawman on people you argue with. Considering there are atmospheric studies done based on the location and color of Earth's shadow during an eclipse, and this is something amateur astronomers contribute to and can participate in, it amounts to being delusional to deny that is what is happening. Oh, and don't forget that the moon and the light source are are moving relative to the Earth, which is also rotating and changing what part of the atmosphere is scattering & refracting light...

We salute you mental person!

[DrXym]

Your contribution to the human race has been gratefully accepted by Charles Darwin.

a non Christian can go and love his neighbour

[bingoUV]

or yours if she is hot enough

Future Darwin Award winner

[rnturn]

Just helping to cull the herd.

And this year's Darwin Award goes to...

[Anonymous Coward]

Too bad he's in his 60s. I think Darwin Awards are only given to those who have not yet procreated.

Future Darwin Award for 2017 Winner!

[PlaynBass]

He's about to become a Flat Liner, aka a future Darwin Award winner for 2017!

2017 Darwin Award Winner

[Stubbyfingers]

In...10...9...8...7....

Difference between science and science fiction

[Anonymous Coward]

The difference between science and science fiction is time...

Darwin Award

[Anonymous Coward]

I hereby formally nominate Mr. Mike Hughes for the 2017 Darwin awards!

The Rocket's name...

[Anonymous Coward]

Should appropriately be...

DARWIN

MY SELF ESTEEM IS LOW

[whyyisthissohard]

YES, it is an easy target for ridicule! I knew I was better than at least SOMEBODY

LMFAO this nigga dont even believe in no science WTF LOL

gravity as illusion

[gaaah]

Well, if gravity is just the illusion presented by curved space, and that anything orbiting our planet is really traveling in "straight" line, then isn't the matter occupying that space also curved, and likewise actually "flat"?

Re:gravity as illusion

[gaaah]

I guess a better question is, when space is curved, are the individual atoms in that space curved as well?

Steam powered?

[Anonymous Coward]

Ok, so basically, either he gets killed, or confirms his already wacky believe in the flat earth hypothesis, because there's no way steam power can get you into orbit or likely even high enough to see the curvature.

I don;t get it

[JustNiz]

Even if he succeeds, how does it prove the earth is flat or not?

I mean even if he got say 10 miles high (52k ft) you aren't going to see the curvature of the earth sufficiently to believe the world isn't flat, especially if you're already prejudiced that it is.