'Two Years Later, I Still Miss the Headphone Port' (techcrunch.com)

An anonymous reader shares a column: I've been trying to figure out why the removal of the headphone port bugs me more than other ports that have been unceremoniously killed off, and I think it's because the headphone port almost always only made me happy. Using the headphone port meant listening to my favorite album, or using a free minute to catch the latest episode of a show, or passing an earbud to a friend to share some new tune. It enabled happy moments and never got in the way.

Now every time I want to use my headphones, I just find myself annoyed. Bluetooth? Whoops, forgot to charge them. Or whoops, they're trying to pair with my laptop even though my laptop is turned off and in my backpack. Dongle? Whoops, left it on my other pair of headphones at work. Or whoops, it fell off somewhere, and now I've got to go buy another one. I'll just buy a bunch of dongles, and put them on all my headphones! I'll keep extras in my bag for when I need to borrow a pair of headphones. That's just like five dongles at this point, problem solved! Oh, wait: now I want to listen to music while I fall asleep, but also charge my phone so it's not dead in the morning. That's a different, more expensive splitter dongle (many of which, I've found, are poorly made garbage).

Comments

I don't.

[Qbertino]

Because I don't buy phones that don't have one.
Genius, isn't it?

Re:I don't.

[Anonymous Coward]

Damn straight it is. I just got a new set of Sony wired headphones and I will use them on a phone with a headphone jack or I will now own the phone. Genius Club++

Re: I don't.

[Anonymous Coward]

It is always about choice and how companies try to force consumers into things, while at the same time talking about it as though they were giving choices to consumers

Re:I don't.

[sg_oneill]

Because I don't buy phones that don't have one.
Genius, isn't it?

Enjoy it while you can. All the android phones are starting to follow suit.

and it sucks

Re: I don't.

[DarkRookie2]

Now tell us how you don't use social media (because you have no friends), make phone calls (because you have no friends) and use a ridiculously unworkable seventy-three step backup process to ensure that you never lose data even though the only data you have is hentai.

Texting is faster than calling or social media and I have a 3 step backup plan that is CTRL-A, CTRL-C, CTRL-V with data that is only mostly hentai.

Re: I don't.

[DarkRookie2]

Flash Storage is a definite improvement over older media like those.
USB 3 is better that 2 and 1, but you can still plug in you 1 and 2 devices into a 3 port no problem.
I don't really know the history of Firewire

So we got two improvements over time there. This is not that. Bluetooth headsets are still expensive compared to normal ones. A cheap set of earphones is only $5-10. I have yet to see a BT set this cheap. And if there is, it will still sound better than the cheap wired ones. They also have batteries that need to be charged.


The biggest kicker, is when the phone will lock down Bluetooth with DRM so only their fancy overprice, terrible sounding, headphones will work.

Re:I don't.

[mfearby]

You're still here ;-)

Re: I don't.

[fluffernutter]

Bluetooth headphones were made for making phone calls, not listening to music. Technically what you hear through them is not the music itself, but a compressed approximation of the music.

Re:I don't.

[Espectr0]

it's getting really hard to buy a premium smartphone with one

Re: I don't.

[Anonymous Coward]

It would have been nice for an alternative evolution came out first. USB headphones have been around for years, but not in usb-c form and not as analog over usb.

Like the beauty of the 3.5mm jack is that it doesnâ(TM)t fucking break. It rotates if itâ(TM)s an L-shape. USB? It will break off the PCB and since that is also your charging port, you just killed the phone.

Re: I don't.

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, even my bluetooth headphones are quite an improvement from taking that live band with me on every trip.

Re: I don't.

[fluffernutter]

If that's what you like to tell yourself.

Re:I don't.

[dryeo]

And I'll also listen to my free FM radio that doesn't eat up my data plan or battery

But the FM radio in the phone uses the headphone wire, plugged into the headphone jack, as an antenna.

Re: I don't.

[quenda]

Bluetooth headphones were made for making phone calls, not listening to music.

Back in the 1990s, yes. But welcome to the 21st century.

Technically what you hear through them is not the music itself, but a compressed approximation of the music.

You will be very sad if you every study anatomy and psychology, and learn how human senses work. Our perception is necessarily highly compressed.
Do you imagine you "hear" the sound-pressure level at every moment? Are you one of those Luddites who hated CDs because of the sampling, or born too late?
Best not to use the word "Technically" when you have zero technical comprehension.

Re: I don't.

[dmacleod808]

If that's what you like to tell yourself.

aren't you the same person?

Re:I don't.

[quenda]

Because I don't buy phones that don't have one.
Genius, isn't it?

Yes, easy to be smug if you are an Android user, and have real choice. But isn't "smug" what we accuse the Apple "sheeple" of ?
Let's not be hypocrites.
Many people, through no fault of their own, have become locked into the Apple ecosystem, and Apple killed their last phone with 3.5mm socket a few months ago.

It is a serious annoyance, just just that. Apple is missing countless features that you may or may not want, but people only complain about the one that was there, and taken away.

Re: I don't.

[quenda]

so its like listening with your ears clogged full of wax.

If they seem the same to you, you have terrible hearing and may as well stick to AM radio. :-)

The emperor truly has no clothes.

Re:I don't.

[Anonymous Coward]

Enjoy it while you can. All the android phones are starting to follow suit.

One of the advantages that Android enjoys over iPhone and iOS devices is the cheapness and ubiquity of device options. There are Android devices for every niche and at every price point. There will always be models with phone connectors (aka "audio jacks") or QWERTY keyboards or any number of other niche features. Apple, on the other hand, has always offered a very limited selection of devices and is well-know for consumer unfriendly nudges, like removing the phone connectors as TFA laments. The products that Apple makes have always struck me as overpriced and unprofessional and I have never understood how anybody involved in serious software development or engineering work could have been satisfied with their "prosumer" nonsense. Now, I do recognize that since we software developers represent a fraction of a percent of the market it's hard to find any company interested in making specialist devices just for our needs. Although, in this department Google does get a bit of credit for at least producing limited numbers of android devices geared towards android developers, first with their Nexus line and later with their Pixel devices. Apple never gave its developers that courtesy, probably because they thought that their developers should be grateful that they were even allowed to develop on their platform at all.

Re:I don't.

[mschuyler]

Because I have never used the headphone jack on any phone.

Re: I don't.

[JustAnotherOldGuy]

Like the beauty of the 3.5mm jack is that it doesnâ(TM)t fucking break. It rotates if it's an L-shape. USB? It will break off the PCB and since that is also your charging port, you just killed the phone.

^^^^^THIS.

Headphone ports work perfectly well in literally billions of devices going back ~40 years or more. It's an amazing technological success that just works.

Apple's bullshit excuse of "courage" was believed only by suckers and fanbois.

Re: I don't.

[Immerman]

Hey, it takes a lot of courage to blatantly fck over your customer base while you tell them they like it. Even if you're Apple and have most of your customers brainwashed that everything you do is The Next Great Thing. The reality distortion field hasn't been quite as strong since Jobs died, and a nakedly exploitative move of that magnitude seems to have woken up at least a slight percentage of the fanboys to their predicament.

Re:I don't.

[Gojira Shipi-Taro]

Many people, through no fault of their own, have become locked into the Apple ecosystem

I don't think you understand how fault works.

Re: I don't.

[LostMyBeaver]

The 3.5mm headphone jack was one of the greatest inventions ever. There were attempts at smaller, but the 2.5mm was just too fragile.

After 50 years, the 3.5mm jack is damn near perfect. There are some potential problems with it, but nothing which is too much of a problem.

If people want to use bluetooth, they're welcome to it. But I've gone iPhoneX and then back again. A major part of this was the headphone jack.

What people often don't realize about the headphone jack is that it takes power. This is this real problem for companies these days. A small audio amplifier places a drain on the battery. It also requires space on the PCB. It's extremely difficult to design an audio amplifier with insanely good audio which fits within the real-estate constraints of a phone and also make it so there's no interference from all the surrounding radio circuits.

So... the solution is to charge us more and remove the port.

What Apple and the others seem to forget is that we like the choice. I don't like constantly losing headphones because they're not connected to the phone. Or constantly leaving my phone on the desk and being out of the building before I realize I forgot it... because the sound starts crackling. I don't like breaking expensive lightning to headphone dongles. I don't like having to constantly charge wireless headphones. I hate when my headphones run out of battery on the train.

Now.. here's the REAL PROBLEM

I don't like having to constantly pair and pair and pair and pair my damn headphones. I use my headphone with my PC to talk on Skype. I use my headphones on my phone to ... well everything. I use my headphone on my tablet to... well everything. I have one pair of headphones I simply plug or unplug. When I use bluetooth, I have to delete the device and repair it every time I switch. With proper headphones I can move the cable and click the button on the headphones to play. I don't even have to unlock the phone.

I've been hoping Apple or Google will release a phone at some point called "The old fogey phone" for people who want all the features of the latest phone but are willing to live with lesser audio to get the headphone jack.

Re: I don't.

[bkmoore]

Bluetooth headphones were made for making phone calls, not listening to music....

I agree, but only to a point. I use high-quality wired headphones on my home stereo, as it was designed specifically for rendering music with the highest-fidelity possible. That would be lost with a bluetooth headphone. OTOH, no iPhone and other small portable device is really audiophile quality, and I don't think bluetooth is necessarily any better or worse on such a device.

Re: I don't.

[JustAnotherOldGuy]

After 50 years, the 3.5mm jack is damn near perfect. There are some potential problems with it, but nothing which is too much of a problem.

A lot of people try to claim that "it can't be made waterproof" or that "it collects dust and lint" or some other bullshit excuse.

1) It's trivial to waterproof a 3.5mm jack and plug. I've done it dozens of times with nothing more than a little bit of RTV or silicone sealant. So that excuse is pure bullshit.

2) It collects pocket lint or dust? OH NOES!!1! But so does a USB-C port, as well as every other connector on the planet. Just use some compressed air to blow it out and it's as good as new.

But noooooooooooooo, we have to buy dongles and/or $75 bluetooth earbuds...now you have more things to lose, more batteries to wear out, more cables to break, etc etc etc.

I can buy dozens of earbuds on Amazon or eBay for $5 ~ $10 and if I lose them it's no big deal. No additional batteries to wear out, no dumbass charging station or gizmo needed.

Also, sound is better over a wire than over Bluetooth. That's a fact. Don't waste my time telling me that the fidelity over Bluetooth is better (or even equal)...I have enough decades of electronics under my belt to know you're mistaken.

Interference? Never really been a problem with wired earbuds unless you're standing next to a major source of EMI like a transformer or sparky motors.

Finally, if my wired earbud falls out, I just put it back in. If your Bluetooth earbud falls out...oh shit. Lets hope you're not in tall grass or over a grate or on a gravel parking lot or a roadway or on an escalator or jogging, etc etc etc. If it's gone, just smile and shell out another $75 for a new pair (since you can't buy them singly as far as I know).

Re:I don't.

[apoc.famine]

Or being locked into an ecosystem, for that matter.

Re: I don't.

[Gabest]

Oh yeah? Where is the IR transmitter on my notebook!

Re:I don't.

[rtb61]

Apple customers are the country club set of the digital world. They want the rules, they want uniformity, they want the lack of choice, some people enjoy all the rules and restrictions of the country club and paying too much for exclusivity and others do not, just the way it is. I am mainly interested in utility, flexibility and reliability, let's be honest no smart phone really provides that any more.

Re: I don't.

[PrimaryConsult]

willing to live with lesser audio to get the headphone jack.

The headphone jack is actually better audio. Not just for headphones, even for the brand name speaker system in my car, plugging the headphone jack into "aux in" is noticeably higher quality than bluetooth, like night and day. Only reason I don't do it is because unfortunately some form of digital connection is needed (bt or USB) for the steering wheel buttons to work.

Re: I don't.

[reanjr]

Try taking a pair of headphones and plug them into a receiver from the 60s. Works just fine.

Re: I don't.

[burnetd]

Can you please explain why I used to get though an aux cable every six months and why the only thing wrong with my 4th Gen iPod touch is the jack plug socket is knackered ?

Re: I don't.

[SuperDre]

BS, how many 3.5 jacks I have seen being broken, it's just ridiculous. So it's BS that it doesn't break. And to be honest, I myself haven't used a 3.5 jack for ages..

Re:I don't.

[stooo]

If it doesn't have that basic hardware, it's not a premium phone.

Re:I don't.

[tlhIngan]

Because I have never used the headphone jack on any phone.

I too thought the headphone port was super important.

My realization came earlier this year when the bumper case my iPhone 4S finally broke apart and around the headphone port was years worth of pocket lint. The phone was bought brand new in 2011, and the bumper case was put on it within a few minutes of unboxing.

It looked strange - a pristine band of metal around the phone not seen in years, except around the headphone port. I picked out years worth of pocket lint - not just what was around the part the case didn't cover, but all the pocket lint INSIDE the port. That took some fine tweezers.

At that point, I decided that the headphone port was truly not important for me. I thought it was a necessity, but for me, the truth was the opposite.

Yes, I understand some people need it. Some people have headphones on them 24/7 and a wire running to their pocket constantly. I see that all the time. And for them perhaps they should make sure their phone has a headphone port. (I say perhaps because I don't know if they use the adapter).

Of course, perhaps Apple realized that few of their crowd used the headphone jack, and even fewer people used headphones and charged their phone at the same time. Thus using the lightning port wasn't a big a drawback as it seems - you simply reassign a port, and actual usage proves few people actually used both ports at the same time.

As an aside, I found an adapter I bought back in the OG iPhone days - it plugs into the 3.5mm port and has a microphone on it, and splits out a regular 3.5mm port for your own headphones. For those who don't remember, the OG iPhone had a recessed port that most headphones will not plug into. It had a microphone so you didn't lose headset functionality (and remained compatible all the way). It was still new in box.

Re: I don't.

[cyber-vandal]

I want my phone to get regular updates for more than 18 months (including new versions of the OS) and to not be spied on by Google. Is there an Android phone like that (LineageOS doesn't count)?

Re: I don't.

[AmiMoJo]

Most people are used to listening to FM radio or MP3 anyway. Very few keep FLAC files on their phones or carry a portable CD player any more. To most people, AptX sounds identical to wired headphones. Often better in fact, as the amplifier is tuned to those specific cans instead of using the often quite weak one in the phone.

I'd be willing to get bet that in a double blind test most audiophiles couldn't tell which were wired and which were AptX either.

Re: I don't.

[Hognoxious]

You're holding it wrong.

Re: I don't.

[Hognoxious]

I have a church organ at work.

The again, I am the Archbishop of Canterbury.

Re: I don't.

[Hognoxious]

So what happens to the parts between the samples?

Re: I don't.

[Hognoxious]

The 3.5mm headphone jack was one of the greatest inventions ever.

Fiddly little things. When I was a young 'un, headphone plugs were the size of a frankfurter.

Re: I don't.

[Hognoxious]

So they're lost, then?

Re: I don't.

[StuartHankins]

Best not to use the word "Technically" when you have zero technical comprehension.

Well to be fair, he had some comprehension, but the quantizing steps rounded it down to zero...

Re: I don't.

[StuartHankins]

A $5-10 pair of headphones is awful no matter what the connection choice is, you need to spend considerably more to have any quality. An inexpensive Bluetooth headset that works well for me is the Cowin E7, around $60 on Amazon right now. It offers automatic noise cancellation which you can turn off if you don't like it. I found with that on, and in normal ambient sound situations, it enhances the music by letting me lower the volume, sometimes to its minimal setting. If I am at home with one of my audio systems and everything is quiet and I'm willing to sit in the zone where everything is optimized, then of course the home audio system wins hands down. If I'm moving around, maybe cooking while listening to music, of course the staging isn't perfect and there is loss of quality.

So really the key is the environment in which you're using these. While staging for headphones can be really great, there is always something changed by using them. Same with a higher-end audio system in a noisy or acoustically poor environment. Even lower-end wireless solutions such as Rocketfish which uses radio to wirelessly transmit sound to speakers has better quality than you will notice in most environments.

Re: I don't.

[drinkypoo]

I'd be willing to get bet that in a double blind test most audiophiles couldn't tell which were wired and which were AptX either.

Give them the prices, and they could. That's because most bluetooth headphones don't support AptX, that comes at a premium. When you couple that with the fact that most phones don't support it, it's barely worth mentioning at all.

Re: I don't.

[number6x]

Upvote for choice #1.

If you are determined to take away the 3.5 mm headphone port, then give me multiple usb-c ports.

This is a valid use case. Working at the desk, with the phone charging, listening to music. And, most importantly, not having another wireless thing to keep charged and keep track of.

Re: I don't.

[fluffernutter]

Well unless you know what is better, the phone or bluetooth, why add a guaranteed bottleneck?

Re: I don't.

[fluffernutter]

What about those like myself that go out of their way to get flac? Also, I don't pay a lot for headphones. We should compare bluetooth headphones at the $40 price point. The problem with bluetooth headphones is that you don't really know what you are getting. The battery may only last 1.1 years so I won't put too much money into it. Wired headphones I will put more money into, so compare at $80 wired.

Re: I don't.

[thegarbz]

It also requires space on the PCB. It's extremely difficult to design an audio amplifier with insanely good audio which fits within the real-estate constraints of a phone and also make it so there's no interference from all the surrounding radio circuits.

Audiophile crap aside this isn't really true. There was pretty much no extra PCB space required for the electronics of a headphone jack thanks to them being integrated in the general DAC chips (which phones still have anyway) since about the second generation iPod (not iPhone, years before the iPhone).

Yeah it's no class A discrete MOSFET amplifier, but it was well and truly more than good enough for the 99.999% of people out there.

The only PCB space reasonably taken up was that of the socket itself.

Re: I don't.

[thegarbz]

Technically what you hear through them is not the music itself, but a compressed approximation of the music.

Maybe you should throw away your 10 year old Bluetooth headphones and your Samsung Galaxy S1 and buy something from the past 5 years which includes things like AAC passthrough or lossless bluetooth compression like aptX.

Unless you're being more philosophical in that because it's 1s and 0s you're not listening to music itself since music is an analogue construct that can only truly be represented by etching into a spinning disk of plastic, in which case piss-off weirdo.

Re: I don't.

[fluffernutter]

Excuse me? Maybe I should throw away something that works? Maybe I should embrace the new shiny shiny and feed the consumer monster? When my 10 year old wired headphones work fine.

Re:I don't.

[epine]

All the android phones are starting to follow suit.

Your definition of the word "all" is 80% FOMO bling.

Re:I don't.

[MBGMorden]

Most (all?) of LG's flagship phones still include it. They have that stupid "button on the back" design (which even after 3 months of owning one I still don't like), but it was the lesser of two evils for me.

Re: I don't.

[slazzy]

Clean out the pocket lint! I had the same problem. Watch a tutorial on YouTube, you'll have it fixed in two minutes.

Re:I don't.

[fluffernutter]

So at some point am I supposed to read the 53rd comment with someones testimony that they just gave into the capitalist monster and "things were much better" and decide that I, too, would like to sacrifice my standards?

Re: I don't.

[thegarbz]

Hey you are the one complaining about it. Not us.

Re: I don't.

[fluffernutter]

I don't see how this matters at all. Unless you can justifiably say that the bluetooth is not the weakest link in the chain, it doesn't make sense to add a limitation to the chain.

Re: I don't.

[fluffernutter]

Lol.. At $60 you are in the range where it will hurt if you roll on top of it at night and it breaks. I recently paid $40 for my BT headphones but even at that price point I won't wear them at night for fear of breaking them. Also you need to pick day or night since they need to charge and they are two expensive for a set of two so you can alternate. I paid $6 each for a bulk box of wired silicone earbuds and that is what I wear at night.

Re: I don't.

[fluffernutter]

Note that I don't listen to music with any of this. I don't really have ear buds that I would listen to music with right now, these are for audio books and TV.

Re: I don't.

[AmiMoJo]

Unfortunately you are a bit of a niche market... But presumably since you are using FLAC you also have an external USB DAC anyway, as the internal one and the built in headphone amp won't be up to scratch.

Back in the day I found the best thing was to just get a dedicated music player with decent sound quality and an SD card slot. Much cheaper, memory costs peanuts and the battery lasts forever. But of course it is one more thing to charge.

Re: I don't.

[StuartHankins]

I wear headphones for 2 reasons: I need to block out noise, and I want to listen to music in a place where I can't use my home audio system. That's pretty much it. I don't sleep with them, I don't even recline with them on, that isn't my use case. Mostly I wear them at work but not even daily, I have a lot of days where I would be constantly taking them off with interruptions.

My headphones' battery lasts well more than a workday, they claim 30 hours but I'm not exactly sure how long they last since I charge them every few times I use them. If you're wearing headphones so long each day at a power rating that eats batteries so quickly you need a second pair, you're at serious risk of damaged hearing and ear infections.

$60 for a pair -- or a second pair -- is probably trivial to most people, that's a night out at the movies for 2 people nowadays or a non-alcoholic dinner for 2, or a tank of premium gas, or a new game for your Playstation / XBox, or a few drinks in an upscale bar. If it's that important to you, you will find the funding for it.

Re:I don't.

[fattmatt]

I simply shrink wrapped the adapter onto the end of my 3.5 mm equipped headphones. I use separate headphones with my 3.5mm equipment vs my iphone though, so might not be a solution for those who need to mix and match.

Re: I don't.

[aaarrrgggh]

The 3.5mm jack is far from perfect though-- the contacts wear and lose their springyness with use-- aircraft IFE headphone jacks are a good example.

But boy do the alternatives really suck!

Re: I don't.

[fluffernutter]

So you would be perfectly happy with a 10 year old set of bluetooth headphones. You wouldn't replace them with something newer.

Re: I don't.

[fluffernutter]

But now you can't get a decent portable music player because EVERYONE STARTED TO USE THIER PHONES.

Re: I don't.

[fluffernutter]

$60 for a pair -- or a second pair -- is probably trivial to most people, that's a night out at the movies for 2 people nowadays or a non-alcoholic dinner for 2, or a tank of premium gas, or a new game for your Playstation / XBox, or a few drinks in an upscale bar. If it's that important to you, you will find the funding for it.

Apparently your money is far, far easier to earn than mine is.

Re: I don't.

[BronsCon]

What people often don't realize about the headphone jack is that it takes power. This is this real problem for companies these days. A small audio amplifier places a drain on the battery. It also requires space on the PCB.

No, we realize that the small audio amplifier which is also required for speaker output takes power and requires space on the PCB. It must not be that much of a problem, since manufacturers are still putting speakers on their phones.

It's extremely difficult to design an audio amplifier with insanely good audio which fits within the real-estate constraints of a phone and also make it so there's no interference from all the surrounding radio circuits.

What about one of the single-chip solutions that actually fits into an earbud... and the shielding cans that are already in place over the radios?

Stop making bullshit excuses, you're not helping.

Re:I don't.

[TechyImmigrant]

Because I don't buy phones that don't have one.
Genius, isn't it?

Yes, easy to be smug if you are an Android user, and have real choice. But isn't "smug" what we accuse the Apple "sheeple" of ?
Let's not be hypocrites.
Many people, through no fault of their own, have become locked into the Apple ecosystem, and Apple killed their last phone with 3.5mm socket a few months ago.

It is a serious annoyance, just just that. Apple is missing countless features that you may or may not want, but people only complain about the one that was there, and taken away.

I was on the upgrade plan. The last iPhone I got was the first without the headphone jack. I won't be replacing it with a non headphone jack phone. I paid off the 'loan' and kept the phone. LG is likely to get my business when that time comes.

The first batch of headphone jack victims haven't yet had time to act on their learnings. It will get worse for the no-jack vendors as most of the population loses the jack, learns it's bad, lives with it and a couple of years later makes a different purchasing decision. The dwell time is around two years.

Re: I don't.

[BronsCon]

That's because your SuperBeats have SuperBluetooth... SuperDre...

Re: I don't.

[epine]

Are you one of those Luddites who hated CDs because of the sampling, or born too late?

I once owned a first generation CD player. The audiophiles were not wrong. The analog recording process had evolved over decades to use microphones that were intrinsically too bright, to compensate for the LP recording process, which was intrinsically low-pass.

All the original CD transfers from the early 1980s are ludicrously shrill. On the other hand, every audio CD I've ever bought going all the way back to 1983 is still playable, but I have to manually equalize everything from the 1980s differently than what came later. The original CDs also ruined stereo staging, as perceived by a listener with sufficiently good speakers. The vast majority used a single DAC, which was multiplexed between the two channels (rendering the two channels permanently half a sample out of phase). In addition, the earlier recordings (especially when played on the earlier players) had a lot of structural quantization noise. Both of these last two problems disappeared with the advent of the 1-bit DAC, interpolated to 20-bit precision, combined with changes to recording technology which computationally dithered out the quantization error term.

Yes, there were plenty of idiots who blamed all these very real problems on the digital process itself. The digital process itself was a broken panacea before an additional decade of secret sauce was quietly supplied behind the scenes. And there is still a group of people out there who think that digital signals travel best over uni-directional, oxygen-free copper wire. But I wouldn't call these people Luddites. I'd call them nearly anything else—but not Luddites.

Some of these people now have hermetically-sealed listening rooms equipped with HEPA filters and helium recirculation pumps—because not even regular indoor air is pristine enough until fully ensconced in a Goldfinger money pit.

Another effect worth mentioned is the analogy to the transition from incandescent bulbs to modern LED lighting. If you've been used to the yellowish incandescent colour-temperature for decades and decades, the new whiter-whites seem peculiar. Then when you get used to the new whiter-whites and you go back to the yellow incandescents, it's now the incandescents that seem weird.

Some of the early CD problems was simply a change of customary colour temperature.

All of this was hotly contested back in 1983 and 1984. Some of the loudest voices in the room were the audiophiles with $30,000 of analog gear in their listening rooms, many of whom claimed to hear nuance that mere mortals couldn't detect.

There was one voice of reason in the wild-west wilderness of the early digital era, and this was the NRC psycho-acoustic research center in Ottawa, Canada.

National Research Council

Over the course of more than 20 years, the validity of these measurements has been confirmed by double-blind listening tests conducted in a nearby NRC listening room that approximates the size and furnishings of a typical living room. The program was guided by Dr. Floyd Toole, a Canadian physicist and psycho-acoustician who received his PhD in England in stereo localization, and continued his experiments at the National Research Council beginning in the 1970s. In his search for an accurate speaker with which to conduct his experiments, he discovered wild inconsistencies in speaker design and measurement, and an absence of controlled scientific research. Since he was already an audiophile, Toole invited several young Canadian speaker designers, including Axiom's Ian Colquhoun, to work with him in evolving new speaker measurements and listening tests (part of the NRC's mandate was to assist Canadian firms in product development).

The facility also tested audiophiles, and they gradually identified a group of people they called "golden ears", who really could hear more a

Re: I don't.

[mark_reh]

Time to throw away your 5 YO bluetooth headphones... aptx was superseded by aptxHD which has been superseded by LDAC.

Re: I don't.

[thegarbz]

Do you have a split personality disorder where one of your personalities imitates the person you are arguing with?

To answer your question let me quote myself:
"Maybe you should throw away your 10 year old Bluetooth headphones and your Samsung Galaxy S1 and buy something from the past 5 years which includes things like AAC passthrough or lossless bluetooth compression like aptX."

I'll let you figure out if I would be happy with a 10 year old set of headphones. I'll also let you try and figure out why you are applying your own logic to my purchasing decisions.

Throw out old junk and be happy, or keep your old junk and stop complaining since it's not representative of what the current state of the technology is.

Re: I don't.

[thegarbz]

Well to be fair if you have 5 year old bluetooth headphones the battery life on them and general wear of having something mobile is probably reason enough to throw them away. Welcome to the new millennium where nothing lasts and consumer desires don't matter.

In any case, point was aptx was more than good enough for nearly every headphone on the market. True high quality headphones which were bluetooth based haven't been on the market very long so far.

Re:I don't.

[mydots]

My first Google branded smartphone in 2010 came with wired earbuds. I have bought a Google branded smartphone every other year since and used those same earbuds. This year I bought a Samsung phone because Google phones no longer have them, but Samsung still does; and I am still using those same 8 year old pair of earbuds.

Re: I don't.

[fluffernutter]

Ok so you are pro-consumer.. exactly what I was saying.

Re: I don't.

[shilly]

Because there are things other than fidelity that matter to people, such as convenience, a lack of wires to get tangled, etc. How much these different things matter to people is a matter of judgement -- there's no right or wrong.

Re: I don't.

[CWCheese]

12" vinyl still a great music storage medium

Re: I don't.

[fluffernutter]

Ok so if there is no right or wrong, why is my choice being limited? People could have bluetooth and analog jack before, now one is forbidden and we are forced to use another. That seems to make the assumption that only the use cases of the people who use wireless matter.

Re:I don't.

[luther349]

i would assume you could still do that with a type-c adapter.

Re: I don't.

[shilly]

Because companies aren't obliged to fulfil your needs or preferences, much as that may gall you. They are offering the product; you are deciding if it's worth your hard-earned cash. You are free to make that choice as you wish. But you can't dictate to them what they have to offer, save as mediated by the government (eg safety regulations).

Re: I don't.

[fluffernutter]

Well since that is pretty much the only promise that capitalism makes to the consumer.. that they will have options that will fit their needs.. I guess capitalism completely fails the consumer then, so it's not capitalism.

Re: I don't.

[quenda]

[CD players] used a single DAC ... (rendering the two channels permanently half a sample out of phase).

I'm going to query that part, because it is specific. Have you done the maths on this? (Am I off?)
44kHz, so 11ms. Multiply by 343m/s = 4mm. FOUR MILLIMETRES

Please explain to me how this makes any sense? Moving one of your speakers by 4mm (or head by 2mm) will have the exact same delay effect. Does that ruin your listening experience? Are you detecting phase in the top octave of your hearing range?

Re: I don't.

[mea_culpa]

Bluetooth audio still sucks ass in 2018. Pitch stability is still a problem. How on earth have they not solved this? And who seriously thought that adjusting pitch was a good solution to dropped packets anyway? Probably one of the humans you describe with special powers to just ignore this.

Re:I don't.

[mea_culpa]

It is fun to poke fun at the dongle wall in Apple Stores though.

Re: I don't.

[mea_culpa]

What's wrong with LineageOS?

Re:I don't.

[Espectr0]

after two straight LG phones that fried themselves (nexus 5 and 5X) i said never again

Re: I don't.

[cyber-vandal]

Nothing at all, it's great and is what Android should be. Unfortunately you can't buy a phone from a major manufacturer with it installed, you need to do some messing about.

Re:I don't.

[dryeo]

And there goes the wire less benefit.

Re: I don't.

[LesFerg]

I just got hold of my original Commodore 64 and hope to get it working again.
But guess what? No headphone jack!

Re: I don't.

[virtualXTC]

Not sure why this is only at a +3, but thank you sir for the interesting history lesson. The part about golden ears only being able to desern frequency resoloution or temporal resolution but not both explains a lot about music perception and why there are so many shitty DJs.

Re: I don't.

[thegarbz]

No. I'm just pro-good-life. I never threw away headphones. My old ones have a cable, and my wireless were bought after aptx came out.

Did you chase after the latest shiny gadget and are now complaining? Shame on you.

Re: I don't.

[shilly]

Capitalism isn't an independent entity that makes promises of its own accord. If you don't anthropomorphise concepts, your life becomes a lot easier to navigate.

I'm also not aware of any political or economic theorists who would make the claim that capitalism provides a mechanism to meet every individual's every need and desire. It's too obviously impossible. In fact, the concept of market failure is a standard term in talking about capitalism, so no-one even begins to pretend it's some kind of nirvana.

You're attacking a strawman of your own creation. Maybe it gives you some small pleasure to do this, but it's a bit of a pointless exercise. Surely you'd be better of using your prodigious talent to propose some entirely new way of organising the allocation of economic resources that avoids all the problems of all the systems we've tried so far. You're a fan of perfection, after all.

Re: I don't.

[pnutjam]

Family of 8 over here and all the kids need headphones for school. Let's see, 2 need computers and 3 need ipads, school clothes, school supplies, book fees (thanks indiana), etc...

So back to headphones, 7 pairs (none for the 3 year old) at $60 / pair is $420. How many do you think I'll need to replace because they got stepped on, lost, one ear quit working, etc. (all of these have happened multiple times).

Or I can buy wired headphones on sale from monoprice for $3 each and keep a few spares on hand. The kids can use them on mulitiple devices or plug into the splitters I bought so they can share music.

hmmm... what to do...

Re: I don't.

[Hognoxious]

"That X can only detect" doesn't satisfy your typical audiophool though.

Re: I don't.

[pnutjam]

$60 headphones are extravagant, especially for children.

Re: I don't.

[JustAnotherOldGuy]

Whoever pretended any such thing? Not me.

Please don't put words in my mouth or throw out strawman 'arguments' like that; it looks dumb and desperate to defend a position that hasn't even been brought up.

Re: I don't.

[JustAnotherOldGuy]

The 3.5mm headphone jack was one of the greatest inventions ever.

Fiddly little things. When I was a young 'un, headphone plugs were the size of a frankfurter.

Oh yeah, those new-fangled frankfurter jacks. In my day we made do with ceramic bobbins and fabric-woven insulation.

Re: I don't.

[JustAnotherOldGuy]

What people often don't realize about the headphone jack is that it takes power.

Ummm, no. The jack is a passive, unpowered device.

Re: I don't.

[BronsCon]

Why not tell the idiot who posted it, and not the guy who was quoting him to explain how he was wrong?

Re: I don't.

[JustAnotherOldGuy]

Why not tell the idiot who posted it, and not the guy who was quoting him to explain how he was wrong?

Slip of the finger, which I'm sure has never ever happened to you.

Re: I don't.

[BronsCon]

Hard to tell around here. All of my trolls have gone silent and I haven't noticed you around before, so my initial assumption was... well, you can see where this is going. My apologies if that is not the case.

Re:I don't.

[Agent0013]

The products that Apple makes have always struck me as overpriced and unprofessional

Especially how most of the iPhones I see people using have cracked screens. If you make such a pretty object so fragile that they are often broken but still being used because it's too expensive to fix, then that beautiful image you are trying to portray is just ruined. Apple phones look like crap because they are most often cracked.

Re: I don't.

[Agent0013]

And that is $75 every couple of years just from batteries that loose their charge capability. All rechargeable batteries degrade over time. A wire doesn't.

I know this is too ideal, but ...

[bobby]

I know I'm being unrealistic, but I wish free-market economics worked the way they theorize it should: that very few people would buy a product that doesn't have a 3.5mm port, and the demand would be filled by other manufacturers (unless you're Apple-addicted, then you're at their mercy). It bugs me to no end when the market bends and adapts to the supplier.

Re: I know this is too ideal, but ...

[js290]

It's actually counterintuitive: "The Most Intolerant Wins: The Dictatorship of the Small Minority" https://medium.com/incerto/the...

Re:I know this is too ideal, but ...

[140Mandak262Jamuna]

The theory you are mentioning is actually called the Rational market theory. It works when an informed public acts rationally. Not altruistically, not socially responsibly, not any highflatulating weirdly. Simply rationally.

And you apply it to iPhone market? That is the most irrational market there is.

Re:I know this is too ideal, but ...

[thaylin]

Or it could be that it IS working as it is supposed to, and the 3.5mm port is not as needed as you want. From my experience it is only needed by a few, at home people connect to bluetooth speakers, that lets them charge and play. Similar in modern cars, and you should not have head phones in while driving anyways. For exercise is the only time you need something and charging is not something you normally can do at that time anyways.

Re:I know this is too ideal, but ...

[Z80a]

Marketing is the poison for the free market.

Re: I know this is too ideal, but ...

[MichaelSmith]

Due to channel congestion?

Also, bluetooth doesn't work on my phone at all when wifi is enabled.

Re:I know this is too ideal, but ...

[Anonymous Coward]

Your experience is limited. I spend many hours on conference calls and it is quite clear that people are now using bluetooth more frequently than corded headsets. You know why? there's lag and dropouts from even the best bluetooth. And during those long conference calls I frequently need to charge and talk at the same time. The lack of 3.5 jack has in fact led to a diminished experience and consumers aren't irritated enough to complain about yet. That's unfortunate.

Re:I know this is too ideal, but ...

[msauve]

"Or it could be that it IS working as it is supposed to,"

OK, if it's working as it should, what's the reason for removing the jack? It's not any of the bullshit ones the marketing department came up with: cost ($800 phone and you need a $40 accessory to replace all the lost functionality), size/space (plenty of phones to compare, a dongle is bigger, and they charge more for larger phones, anyway), water resistance (a jack can be just as water resistant as a USB port). I suspect the reason Apple did it was strictly aesthetics - one less hole in their device. That's not unexpected, they make a lot of form over function design decisions ("you're holding it wrong"). But please, what's the legitimate, real, user benefit of removing the jack?

Re:I know this is too ideal, but ...

[jellomizer]

The thing is while I do miss a 3.5mm port as well. Not as much I like having my device waterproof. or trying to clean gunk, pocket fluff, from the slot.
It is a case of a trade-off vs rewards. Heck I would love for my phone to have HDMI or a VGA connector, USB 3 port... But I have a laptop for the real usage, with all these crazy ports. I use my phone, mostly for basic internet searches, emails, text and sometimes I will make a phone call. We forget that this device is not a PC replacement.

Re: I know this is too ideal, but ...

[thaylin]

And how does taking the metro to work stop you from using a lightening based headphone jack during the commute? They come with one. You typically cannot charge on the metro so there is nothing there preventing it.

Re:I know this is too ideal, but ...

[thaylin]

That i t is not needed and there is a drive to make the devices thinner.

Re:I know this is too ideal, but ...

[Powercntrl]

very few people would buy a product that doesn't have a 3.5mm port, and the demand would be filled by other manufacturers

You're not factoring in that for many people, it's not a dealbreaker. I primarily listen to music in my car or at home, and in both places Bluetooth is more convenient than cords. The pair of headphones I own (Samsung Level On), I charge roughly twice a month. They don't get much use because I don't listen to music on headphones as much, now that I'm pushing 40.

Re:I know this is too ideal, but ...

[godrik]

I don't understand what you are saying. I just changed my phone. When I bought it, I made sure there was a headphone jack on it. I had no problem finding what I wanted. (I ended up picking an LG Q7+ if you wonder.)

Jackless phones tend to be the tech high end ones. There I am not surprised not having a jack isn't much of a problem. These phones are pretty much only purchased by tech enthusiast who probably have different wireless headset for their different devices.

Re:I know this is too ideal, but ...

[OrangeTide]

There are lot of people who use the headphones that come with their product and not aftermarket products. If the Apple store sells some Apple ear buds that work with Apple iPhone, then that is seemingly good enough for many people.

Think of the last few decades where people bought a walkman or CD player and most only ever used the shitty bundled in headphones? Market forces are at work here, and the theory tells us the selective pressure is not high for 3.5mm headphone jacks.

Re:I know this is too ideal, but ...

[rogoshen1]

I don't know, but it seems that it's kind of silly to replace something tried and true that just fucking 'works'; with a menagerie of dongles, adapters, and overpriced wireless headphones that may or may not deliver comprable sound quality.

It's a step backwards any way you slice it. New does not necessarily mean 'better'. (unless you're Apple, and you're wanting yet another way to extract even more money from your customers.)

Re:I know this is too ideal, but ...

[msauve]

Well, smartphones aren't needed, either. Like them, it is a want. What's the user advantage of a thinner phone? Easier to break? Less room for battery capacity? An excuse to build in planned obsolescence with a non-user replaceable battery?

Re:I know this is too ideal, but ...

[DigiShaman]

That is the most irrational market there is.

It takes courage.

Re:I know this is too ideal, but ...

[olsmeister]

I think Apple probably did it so they could sell the Bluetooth headphones that people would constantly lose and need to replace.

Re:I know this is too ideal, but ...

[GrumpySteen]

Try again.

The iPhone 6 had a headphone jack and was thinner than any model they've made without the 3.5mm headphone jack. Removing the jack has nothing to do with making the phone thinner.

Re:I know this is too ideal, but ...

[kbg]

So they can make the USB port waterproof but not the 3.5mm port? And the USB port has more wires and also has power, which the 3.5mm port doesn't

I don't think so.

Re:I know this is too ideal, but ...

[fahrbot-bot]

... water resistance (a jack can be just as water resistant as a USB port) ...

Case in point. My Kyocera Hydro Vibe (that I bought in 2015) has a headphone jack and is "Certified waterproof for IPX5, and IPX7. Immersible for up to 30 minutes in up to 3.28 feet (1 meter)." Also comes with a user-replaceable battery and FM receiver that works with NextRadio. Sure, it only runs Android 4.4.2 (KitKat) but it does what I need it to using Ting

Re:I know this is too ideal, but ...

[rogoshen1]

The materials (and licensing?) to create the port are most certainly greater than zero. This cost saving can be passed on the customers.

Have you looked at how much new iPhones cost by any chance?

Re: I know this is too ideal, but ...

[bobby]

Wish I could upmod you. Brilliant insight. Thank you, and for that link. Awesome article; dovetails with much of my observation and thinking.

I've only dabbled in economics (college minor) and it's obvious that the major assumptions are false, and / or are based in illogic. I still say that something's wrong when there's much demand for 3.5mm jacks and suppliers are willing to risk the loss in sales, especially when newer phones don't really have gigantic offsetting advantages. I think the world needs much better and updated economics classes.

Re: I know this is too ideal, but ...

[bobby]

Then why can't I find any good phones with full qwerty wide format slider keyboards?

I don't know nor have access to statistics, but my hunch is that the demand is quite low. I don't particularly want one, but I think they're cool enough that some phones should have them.

How about bluetooth KB?

Re:I know this is too ideal, but ...

[mfearby]

Even though I've been using a MacBook Pro for the past five years, I replaced my iPhone 5c it with a Samsung Galaxy S8 and it's just fine. I have three (on screen) buttons at the bottom of the phone instead of just one really dumb button for everything, AND I don't have to use iTunes to copy stuff to and from my phone. I'll never go back to an iPhone (but I'm still happy with macOS... for now).

Re:I know this is too ideal, but ...

[jythie]

The classic problem with the simple model is, regardless of rhetoric about rationality, it only really works if you have consumers and producers, with no additional layers or competing interests. After that it quickly starts looking more like feudal systems or international diplomacy.

Re:I know this is too ideal, but ...

[fluffernutter]

One bottleneck is better than five.

Re:I know this is too ideal, but ...

[GoRK]

Free market economies only work when the supply isn't externally constrained. In a truly free market, another company might be able to produce, for instance, an iPhone which was otherwise identical and fully compatible to Apple's but included a headphone jack. The problem is it stands is that they can make a poor decision and because of business momentum, legal protections, and consumer lock-in it can appear to be successful even when it is abysmally stupid.

Re:I know this is too ideal, but ...

[LynnwoodRooster]

And yet thinner phones (2mm thinner) already existed - and kept the 3.5mm jack. Not to mention a hacker added 3.5mm jack internally to an iPhone 7. Clearly it can be done, and clearly thinner phones can be made. It was dropped because Apple was spending $3.2 billion buying one of the biggest Bluetooth headphone brands in the world - Beats.

Re:I know this is too ideal, but ...

[Actually, I do RTFA]

It only runs 4.4.2, so it's EOL is in 2019. How usable will it be once Google starts cutting off its services.

Re:I know this is too ideal, but ...

[ceoyoyo]

That's one theory: market economics doesn't work.

The other theory is that the vast majority of people don't give a crap whether they plug their headphones into a round port or a rectangular one.

Re: I know this is too ideal, but ...

[dinfinity]

Horseshit.

Unless you define 'good' as 'unusably thin'.

Re:I know this is too ideal, but ...

[fahrbot-bot]

It only runs 4.4.2, so it's EOL is in 2019. How usable will it be once Google starts cutting off its services.

I don't really use the Google (or any) apps that much, but thanks for the info; I'll keep a watch on that. I imagine it'll still work fine for most other things...

Re:I know this is too ideal, but ...

[msauve]

You're apparently one of those people who buys a phone. You're doing it wrong, you're supposed to buy a lifestyle to impress the people you meet who buy into marketing. :)

Re:I know this is too ideal, but ...

[sheramil]

OK, if it's working as it should, what's the reason for removing the jack?

The designers have to be SEEN to be earning their pay. "Okay, this month's new model - what have you got for us, guys?".. "Well, we moved the camera port a bit to the left and added a speed stripe..."

If they can say they removed a part, even a part with a trivial cost, it sounds like they're doing something other than shuffling features around. If they force the user to buy a series of additional modules to keep the same functionality, even better. You see the same thing in government web design, where there's a perfectly useful and SIMPLE portal that's been tarted up like a Predator's HUD just because some jackanapes doesn't want management to think he's not doing anything.

Re:I know this is too ideal, but ...

[fahrbot-bot]

You're apparently one of those people who buys a phone. You're doing it wrong, you're supposed to buy a lifestyle to impress the people you meet who buy into marketing. :)

I bought the Kyocera Hydro Vibe in 2015 because nTelos (originally Primeco) sold their spectrum in my area to Sprint and they said my original phone -- a Qualcomm QCP-1900, I bought in 1998 -- wouldn't be supported on their network anymore. I switched to Ting (which uses Sprint) because the cheapest Sprint plan was $80/month. I only spend about $15/month with Ting. (I don't use my phone that much.)

As for the other part... The only person I cared about impressing was my wife Sue, who died in 2006, so I don't worry about that stuff anymore.

Re: I know this is too ideal, but ...

[js290]

When you are rewarded for perception, not results, you need to show sophistication. (Why economists are charlatans) @nntaleb

— Finance Myths (@FinanceMyths) December 22, 2018

Re:I know this is too ideal, but ...

[sjames]

My phone is rated as waterproof to 6 ft. and has a headphone jack. There's a rubber flap with a gasket covering the USB and headphone jack.

Re:I know this is too ideal, but ...

[tepples]

Well, smartphones aren't needed, either. Like them, it is a want.

No phone, no job. No job, no food until you can find a different one. Is it still a want?

Re:I know this is too ideal, but ...

[msauve]

Perhaps when the GP speaks of making "devices thinner," they're referring to wallets.

Re:I know this is too ideal, but ...

[tepples]

at home people connect to bluetooth speakers

Unless the listener is using headphones so as not to distract someone else in the house who is working from home.

Similar in modern cars

Replacing a non-modern car with a modern car just for its Bluetooth receiver is probably not practical. People still use aux in or even tape adapters.

Re:I know this is too ideal, but ...

[dryeo]

In my limited experience, about half the people don't care about headphones period and so don't care at all about having a headphone jack. Those that do care, mostly use the headphone jack.
So, numbers pulled out of my ass, if 50% don't care about headphones and half of those who do care, are happy with Bluetooth or dongles, that means that only 25% care about the headphone jack.

Re:I know this is too ideal, but ...

[msauve]

Yes, a phone is still a "want." You're begging the question. There are plenty of jobs which don't require having a phone. If you want a job which requires a phone, the phone is bundled with that "want." And, you say it as if there aren't basic phones available, whether landline, VoIP, or basic cellular "feature phones." A smartphone is a "want," even for a job where you need a phone.

Just because you're not smart, doesn't mean your phone has to be.

Re:I know this is too ideal, but ...

[LordKronos]

The problem is there are just way too many things to take a stand against. I don't like a heavily customized OS, so I want something that runs a more or less barebones version of Android (good support for Lineage OS is also highly desired here, so that later when the vendor stops updating, I can switch there for my updates). So I've got to make my stand on the OS.

When my OnePlus One was about 2 years old, I started looking for a replacement. Nothing felt right. The original Google Pixel was a good contender, but was a bit too pricey in my opinion. So I've got to make my stand on the price.

I waited for a bit and the Pixel 2 was coming out. It was looking pretty interesting, so I considered abandoning my stand on the price. But wait...no headphone jack? No way. So I've got to make my stand on the headphone jack.

So I was thinking about another OnePlus phone. The OP6 was coming out soon so I waited even longer for that. Hooray, a real headphone jack and a decent price. But WTF...a glass back? God damn it, I hate that, so I've got to make my stand on the glass back.

So I wait even longer and now my phone is approaching 4 years old. I'm making my stands on installed OS, price, headphone jack, and glass back. the OP6t is coming but fuck, now it too ditches the headphone jack. The situation is getting worse.

Pixel 3 is coming out. All the downsides of the previous, plus now they too have the fucking glass back. But god damn did they do a really incredible job on the camera and camera software. My 4+ year old phone is on it's last leg, having to charge it twice a day and dealing with constant reboots (I replaced the battery but since there are no genuine ones I found the replacement even worse than the degraded original). The way the market has gone, my stand on no glass back is pointless. My stand on the headphone jack is nearly the same. So I compromise on those and the price, keep my stand on the OS, and get the nice camera of the Pixel 3.

I've been holding out for 2 years now and I feel that's about the best I can do. It's a good phone, and I'm really happy with it. It's annoying every time I have to hook up that dongle. I'm annoyed I had to buy a case for it (I used my previous phones with no case, but that's not a realistic option with a glass back). But I love the camera (which to me is probably more important than the cellular functionality itself). I tried making my stands, but it's just not realistic.

Re:I know this is too ideal, but ...

[tepples]

There are plenty of jobs which don't require having a phone.

In my experience, application forms that allow leaving phone blank are few and far between.

And, you say it as if there aren't basic phones available, whether landline, VoIP, or basic cellular "feature phones."

If one is trained as a smartphone app developer, none of those qualify for testing your product. Food while retraining for a different job is a need.

Re:I know this is too ideal, but ...

[msauve]

If you're a "smartphone app developer," and can't save enough to feed yourself when you're in between jobs, you're not very good at it and should look at changing careers. And, if your're a "smartphone app developer," the cost of a smartphone is simply an associated cost - no different than a mechanic needing tools.

But, you've devolved into trying to create a straw man. Won't work. A smartphone is simply not a need unless you stretch logic to create one. By your logic, I "need" a billion dollars to live the life I want.

Re:I know this is too ideal, but ...

[LynnwoodRooster]

1. Or you could put a jack in it

2. No licensing (3.5mm TRS has been around forever) and the cost for 10MM jacks is about $0.07 each. Meaning it would save about $0.35 per phone, to the consumer.

3. See number 1 - I guess Apple's engineers aren't as smart as a lone hacker in Hong Kong?

4. Because apparently lots of people - including the author of this article - want it?

5. Mine has a serial port - of course, it has bog-standard USB OTG, so it does RS232 over USB. Oh wait, an iPhone doesn't have a USB port, does it - at least, not without a custom dongle...

Re:I know this is too ideal, but ...

[LynnwoodRooster]

Let Lil' Wayne educate you about waterproof 3.5mm jacks...

Re:I know this is too ideal, but ...

[apoc.famine]

But don't you see, this means that it cost apple like -$200 to include the 3.5mm port. When they got rid of it, they had to pass that (negative) savings onto the consumer.

Re: I know this is too ideal, but ...

[registrations_suck]

Then you bought shitty phone.

Re: I know this is too ideal, but ...

[registrations_suck]

You donâ(TM)t need to have a phone just to have a phone number.

Welcome to the modern world.

Re:I know this is too ideal, but ...

[nagora]

Not "rational", but "short-sighted".

"Rational" makes it sound really clever when in fact it's plain old dumb as bricks. The market is led down the path the suppliers want by incremental moves which give immediate apparent advantages to the buyers and harder to understand disadvantages ("$1 cheaper" Vs "You will have your usage monitored and sold to someone somewhere") which are only apparent once the market is dominated by the new version/product. The cumulative effect is that the buyer gets screwed because they can never undo those moves when they realize where they went - no one is supplying the old model any more and younger consumers are used to it and don't have the deeper memory to even understand what's happened to them. So the commercial space for anyone to come along with a "retro" version which reinstates the old rights or powers the users had shrivels over time until there's nothing that can easily be done about the new situation.

Economists do this sort of thing all the time - push a political view and then label it "rational" or "free" and pretend it's some innate characteristic of the universe that's either desirable or inevitable when it's really just some wanky theory they think will make them personally richer. People aren't rational - if they were then there'd never be a stock-market crash or a bad leader in a democracy. Saying your theory "just" depends on people being rational is like saying it "just" depends on the tooth fairy selling shares in her operation.

Re:I know this is too ideal, but ...

[jellomizer]

It isn't that they can't but for a device meant to fit in your pocket, should they?
Remember the Note 7 battery catching on fire, because everything was so jammed pack that they didn't account for the battery to expand. These devices are made to a high tolerance levels, and are jam packed with stuff.

I am willing to think those headphone ports which are a lot of empty space are an engineering nightmare. And to make it waterproof, having to add a mm gasket around it would just take up more space that can be used for an extra 20 minutes of battery life, improved reception on the phone bigger and faster CPU....

I work in software development, I get into many arguments where I choose not to add a particular feature, it isn't because I can't but because I shouldn't. Often because it will make the product difficult to manage, be a large programming effort for a minor payoff, and just have the developers in the future go what the heck is this code for, it seems to be used for one particular feature that isn't used anymore. But we need to make sure it doesn't break.

Re:I know this is too ideal, but ...

[jellomizer]

How much more battery life can you get with that extra space?

Re:I know this is too ideal, but ...

[spitzig]

The main topic is about no headphone jack. The GP is about thinner phones and smartphones. A phone that can text might be a need. A phone with internet capability is a need for somed jobs. A superthin headphone jack-less phone is a want.

Re:I know this is too ideal, but ...

[thegarbz]

OK, if it's working as it should, what's the reason for removing the jack?

You're assuming that *you* are the market. The reality is the market is wide and varied with different desires and price points. No company ever could produce a phone that suits everyone in the market, even if they managed to do it to the right price point someone will want thing, someone else will want fat, etc.

The reason for removing the jack from Apple was obvious: drive purchases of new bluetooth headphones, Apple being the worlds largest supplier of precisely that.
The reason for removing the jack from other companies was also obvious: There was a realisation that the market was quite happy to see the jack go and they bought the device anyway. Great I just saved $1.50 on my BOM and reduced engineering effort to boot.

The market is working exactly as intended. There are plenty of phones out there with headphone jacks, but ultimately you have to remember one sad fact: You are a person, not a market. What *you* care about is not relevant until it's identical to the desires of a million other people.

Re:I know this is too ideal, but ...

[thegarbz]

The thing is while I do miss a 3.5mm port as well. Not as much I like having my device waterproof. or trying to clean gunk, pocket fluff, from the slot.

Then just buy any other phone which has a 3.5mm port and is just as IP68 certified as Apple's devices. As for gunk and pocket fluff, just hose out the port or better still wash your cloths and don't use your phone when having a big old gunk wrestle.

I use my phone, mostly for basic internet searches, emails, text and sometimes I will make a phone call. We forget that this device is not a PC replacement.

And yet you just said you replaced some of the things you do on your PC. But I agree, personally I carry my desktop with me when listening to music on the bus.

Re:I know this is too ideal, but ...

[fluffernutter]

then that is seemingly good enough for many people.

..and the long sad march to the capitalist drums continue.

Re:I know this is too ideal, but ...

[fluffernutter]

My theory is that the second factor is a stupid way to govern what gets created if you wand a market with full selection.

Re:I know this is too ideal, but ...

[Actually, I do RTFA]

I think I misrecalled an EOL rumor as an EOL announcment They were flying hot and heavy when Google EOL'd some other versions this year. It may actually have longer. (Done as a reply to fahrbot-bot instead of my original post, so he can see it). Stay aware but you may have longer.

Re:I know this is too ideal, but ...

[fahrbot-bot]

Thanks! Happy New Year.

Re:I know this is too ideal, but ...

[kbg]

It isn't that they can't but for a device meant to fit in your pocket, should they?

Yes because this is just a small port that is already compatible with million of deployed devices. Bluetooth audio or USB audio is good to have but it has a number of shortcomings that the 3.5mm port doesn't have:

1) Bluetooth audio is being recompressed which can result in lower quality.
2) Bluetooth headphones need power and a charged battery.
3) The same USB port is used both for charging and audio, which means you can't do both at the same time.
4) Bluethooth can suffer from interference.
5) Bluetooth is not very reliable, which anyone knows that has tried to pair some devices together and failed for no apparent reason.
6) Non compatible audio ports. First we had Mini, then Micro and now USB-C. In a few years we will have some new USB connector that will make all these obsolete as usual, but the 3.5mm has been in use since 1950.

Remember the Note 7 battery catching on fire, because everything was so jammed pack that they didn't account for the battery to expand. These devices are made to a high tolerance levels, and are jam packed with stuff.

That is just bad engineering. If more space is needed then this is something that can be dropped from the phone: Wireless charging, fingerprint scanning, NFC or curved screen.

I am willing to think those headphone ports which are a lot of empty space are an engineering nightmare. And to make it waterproof, having to add a mm gasket around it would just take up more space that can be used for an extra 20 minutes of battery life, improved reception on the phone bigger and faster CPU....

Nobody is really asking for a smaller phone. Usually people want a larger screen. There is a limit on how small you want the phone before you start limiting the screen and being able to hold it as a phone.

I work in software development, I get into many arguments where I choose not to add a particular feature, it isn't because I can't but because I shouldn't. Often because it will make the product difficult to manage, be a large programming effort for a minor payoff, and just have the developers in the future go what the heck is this code for, it seems to be used for one particular feature that isn't used anymore. But we need to make sure it doesn't break.

I also work in software development. A useful feature for users should not be removed or not added just because it's hard for developers to implement. Implementing software is your job, doesn't matter if it's complex, hard or needs lot of documentation, there is a reason why it's called a job and not leisure time. The number one priority in software is being backward compatible with existing software/hardware and not creating any bugs.

Re:I know this is too ideal, but ...

[shanen]

Solution approaches, both related to freedom per my sig:

(1) Cost recovery funding to support what people are willing to pay for rather than only what corporate cancers deem most profitable. In this case "what" means goods, services, and even specific features such as headphone jacks. As long as enough people are willing to pay for the costs associated with the headphone ports, they would remain available, though people would also be free to switch to alternatives (such as a waterproof USB port).

(2) Forced reproduction of the corporate cancers to make them smaller and less harmful. NOT a penalty for success, but rather a focus on increasing freedom rather than the unsolvable fake problem of infinite corporate profit. Natural implementation would be with a progressive profit tax linked to market share. Excessively large corporations could reduce their taxes only by dividing themselves into competing companies that offered REAL choices (and freedom) to the customers.

Time's up, but ADSAuPR, atAJG.

Re:I know this is too ideal, but ...

[OrangeTide]

..and the long sad march to the capitalist drums continue.

I don't think that shitty headphones is a sign of the end of western civilization.

Re:I know this is too ideal, but ...

[fluffernutter]

I didn't say the end of western civilization, I just said corporations seem to always get what they want. Long has it been since corporations give the customers what they want as in a capitalist economy. Now customers take what the corporations want to give them. If you want to be one of those then fine, but I grew up with better sounding and more convenient equipment and progressing in technology shouldn't be a step backward in that.

Re:I know this is too ideal, but ...

[CWCheese]

I was just on a conference call a week ago where the meeting host himself suffered the dread battery brownout, forcing him to tell the entire room to let him switch over from his headset to the speakerphone mode. It wasn't a killer for the meeting but I do remember it more vividly than most of the points of discussion.

Re:I know this is too ideal, but ...

[JustAnotherOldGuy]

The thing is while I do miss a 3.5mm port as well. Not as much I like having my device waterproof. or trying to clean gunk, pocket fluff, from the slot.

1) It's trivial to waterproof a 3.5mm jack and plug. I've done it dozens of times with nothing more than a little bit of RTV or silicone sealant. So that excuse is pure bullshit.

2) It collects pocket lint or dust? So does a USB-C port, as well as every other connector on the planet. Just use some compressed air to blow it out and it's as good as new.

3) My ancient S5 Active is waterproof- it has an IP67 rating (which is for fresh water only), but also a MIL-STD-810G rating, which includes salt water.

Your argument has no real merit. Try again.

So don't buy shit electronics.

[o_ferguson]

I have an iPhone 5s with a stereo jack and it works great. Your problem was spending more money on newer tech that's not as good. Don't be an asshat.

Re:So don't buy shit electronics.

[wwphx]

What's ticking me off with the iPhone is that, aside from removing the headphone jack, is their size bias. I want a smaller form factor. I want the 5-series form factor back, and they're showing no inclination to go in that direction. I loved my 4S, which is now used by my wife, but Verizon is turning off their 3G network in '09 so that will have to be retired. I can give her my 6, which has a headphone jack which will work in her Subaru which doesn't have Bluetooth. So what then, I look for a used 5S?

We're not replacing my wife's car in the near future, and we're not interested in putting in a BT adapter to sync with her phone. I didn't like Apple's decision to get rid of the headphone jack then and nothing has shown me a compelling reason to like it now.

Re:So don't buy shit electronics.

[o_ferguson]

I won't. I only use this because I got it free and I need something to put my SIM in when it's not in my Lenovo x230

Re:So don't buy shit electronics.

[edwdig]

If you're using it in your car, you're almost certainly leaving a cable connected to your car stereo, and just connecting/disconnecting the phone end of it as needed. Get the $10 headphone to lightning adapter, connect it to the wire that's already in your car, and then everything is exactly the same for you. If you want to charge your phone at the same time, you can get a slightly more expensive adapter that adds an extra connector you can use for charging.

The dongle is annoying for people that use one set of headphones with multiple devices, but for something like this where you've got a stationary cable, it's just a minor annoyance that you have to spend a little more.

Re:So don't buy shit electronics.

[fluffernutter]

And if there are 20 things that I want to plug into, then I should just happily buy one adapter per device at $10 a pop?

Re:So don't buy shit electronics.

[shakezula]

Adding a Bluetooth dongle to an existing radio is pretty trivial now-a-days. You can pick one up that will sit in your 12v (ciggie) adapter for about $8 at ***Mart stores with the 3.5" standard aux plug. Usually these little guys have a USB port for charging too so you can add two features her older model might not have in one quick go. Not as clean as replacing the deck (sub $100 could get you Bluetooth, USB, SiriusXM, MP3/WMA, etc) but if you want to stay easy going, they work great.

expensive mistake

[Anonymous Coward]

removing the headphone port is the most annoying "feature" ever. im ready to pay off my iphone 8 so i can sell it to get a cheap android phone with the headphone port. it's ridiculous. 3rd party dongles are cheap and not built to spec so they burn out and/or have terrible audio. apple charges too much for dongles. i cant charge and listen at the same time on road trips now. dumb. i should have never "upgraded". i am learning an expensive lesson.

Re: expensive mistake

[LynnwoodRooster]

Why carry one device when you can carry two! Double the Apple-y goodness!

Re:expensive mistake

[b0s0z0ku]

And it doesn't allow you to charge the phone and use the headphones, you fucking cretin.

Re:Seriously?

[NFN_NLN]

USB sticks are superior in every way to a floppy disk; therefore invalid comparison.

Touch-tone phone ares superior in every way to a rotary phone; therefore invalid comparison.

Verdict: Point missed.

Want to know why it bugs you?

[DrXym]

Because removing the headphone jack was a cynical move by phone manufacturers to upsell you a pair of bluetooth headphones. There is virtually no benefit to the consumer of such a move.

Re:Want to know why it bugs you?

[OzPeter]

Because removing the headphone jack was a cynical move by phone manufacturers to upsell you a pair of bluetooth headphones. There is virtually no benefit to the consumer of such a move.

So cynical that the company I bought my headphone jack-less phone from included a pair of earbuds that plug directly into the remaining port on the phone. And even included an adapter to allow other, standard headphones to plug into the same port.

Now that's cynical /s

Re:Want to know why it bugs you?

[H3lldr0p]

Yes, because it locks you into their DRM scheme. Getting rid of the port is one of the last steps in sealing the analog hole. What better way of distracting you from this fact then by giving you nearly the same functionality without it having the same function as before?

Re:Want to know why it bugs you?

[DrXym]

Well that's wonderful!. An inconvenient dongle that you can stick in the only port in your phone and while it is plugged in (obviously not when you're charging, syncing, docked or whatever), you can use wired headphones. What a wonderful solution to simply putting a jack in the phone and incurring literally pennies of additional cost.

What will this unnamed but innovative and consumer-focussed phone manufacturer thing of next? Perhaps yet another dongle that allows their phone to sync / charge with cables that virtually every manufacturer already uses?

Re:Want to know why it bugs you?

[Anonymous Coward]

In a way it is, because I'm guessing the earbuds are not high quality. And that adapter, you will probably lose at some point so they will happily sell you another. And maybe another if you lose that one too.

The cynicism came about because the company who first removed their headphone jack just also happened to have bought a major headphone manufacturer a couple years earlier. To my knowledge, LG and Samsung don't own headphone companies.

Re:Want to know why it bugs you?

[MrJones]

I think there is literally no benefit to the consumer of such a move. I really miss the headphone and have updated to an old iPhone with headphone jack because of that.

Re:Want to know why it bugs you?

[chispito]

So cynical that the company I bought my headphone jack-less phone from included a pair of earbuds that plug directly into the remaining port on the phone. And even included an adapter to allow other, standard headphones to plug into the same port.

Now that's cynical /s

That's called a free sample. Pack-in headphones and small, easily misplaced or lost adapters, are consumables.

Re:Want to know why it bugs you?

[OzPeter]

And even included an adapter to allow other, standard headphones to plug into the same port.

Now that's cynical /s

the "standard" requires an adapter? who is fooling who?

So when was the last time that you used a keyboard with a PS/2 connector? That was really cynical of PC manufacturers getting rid of PS/2 ports, forcing me to buy brand new USB keyboards. And don't get me started on those adapters that they forced on me when I had to use the AT style keyboard connectors with PS/2 ports.

Re:Want to know why it bugs you?

[OzPeter]

In a way it is, because I'm guessing the earbuds are not high quality.

LOL you're bitching about not having high quality ear buds used to listen to MP3's?

Re:Want to know why it bugs you?

[PrimaryConsult]

This makes sense. LG for example still has headphone jacks and MicroSD slots in even their latest flagship phones. Possible reason: they don't make accessories (the quasi-official recommended wireless charger was a Samsung last year, not sure if they even have their own yet) and they don't offer cloud storage.

Re:Want to know why it bugs you?

[Voyager529]

And even included an adapter to allow other, standard headphones to plug into the same port.

Now that's cynical /s

the "standard" requires an adapter? who is fooling who?

So when was the last time that you used a keyboard with a PS/2 connector? That was really cynical of PC manufacturers getting rid of PS/2 ports, forcing me to buy brand new USB keyboards. And don't get me started on those adapters that they forced on me when I had to use the AT style keyboard connectors with PS/2 ports.

*sigh*

1. It is still possible, in 2018, to buy desktops with PS/2 ports. Sure, it's a limited choice, but the port remains in existence. Now yes, I know the response to this one is "but you can still buy phones with headphone jacks", and you'd be correct...but the point is that while a port that was depreciated over a decade ago is still on the market, it is unclear whether the same will hold true in ten years for phones. Ten years ago, iPhones had 30-pin connectors and non-iPhones generally used mini-USB, but you can't find current-gen phones with these ports at any price.

2. The PS/2 ports were generally replaced with two USB ports; while you did have to get a new keyboard, even the first-gen motherboards without PS/2 had four or more USB ports; computers of the PS/2 era generally had only one or two USB ports, so the increase did not come at the expense of existing USB peripherals or a requirement of a hub. Apple didn't add a second general connectivity port (be it lightning or USB-C), so while a 6S could have both wired headphones and a charging cable, 7++ cannot.

3. PS/2 to USB adapters cost less than lightning to 1/8" adapters, and generally allow both mouse and keyboard to share a port, and require no drivers. Apple doesn't have a lightning-to-lightning-and-1/8" splitter for $10.

4. Bluetooth has awkwardness when it comes to multiple device combinations - my Plantronics headset can handle two devices concurrently, but not three, and my tablet can also handle two devices, but gets weird when I try connecting my Plantronics, my Bluetooth mouse, and my Pockethernet network tester. USB has this figured out already, and (albeit very differently) so did PS/2. Bluetooth isn't a panacea, but as it's quickly becoming the only connectivity option while charging, it's being treated as one.

So, even ignoring the sound quality and Yet Another Thing To Charge arguments, the PS/2 comparison falls flat.

Re:Want to know why it bugs you?

[OzPeter]

So, even ignoring the sound quality and Yet Another Thing To Charge arguments, the PS/2 comparison falls flat.

The point is that times change in ways that are out of our control. I think I still have some 8" floppies around, but all modern computers seemed to have ditched 3 1/2" floppies now days.

I'm not going to defend bluetooth. It sucks in some areas but excels in others.

As for adapter cost, when flagship phones are t the $1k mark, I find bitching about the price of adapters a bit incongruous.

  And I'd suspect that for 90% of people your multiple-connector head phone cable is a special case - just like the PS/2 connector is nowadays.

Re:Want to know why it bugs you?

[fluffernutter]

No, he's bitching about being forced to add another series of compression to what he already has. It doesn't really matter what the quality is, how can adding another 5 layers of compression possibly be better?

Re:Want to know why it bugs you?

[budsetr]

Modern (six years old) HP desktops have PS/2 connectors that are plug and play. Yes! Plug and play. You do not have to restart the computer.

Re:Want to know why it bugs you?

[Oligonicella]

Dude/tte; my PC has a PS/2 port. What the hell are you talking about?

Re:Want to know why it bugs you?

[thogard]

Gamers seem to be moving back to PS2 mice and keyboards so many of the newer motherboards have PS2 ports on them. The two I bought this month had both a keyboard and mouse port. Inside they even had the headers for RS-232 and parallel ports.

I don't know why the parallel ports are heading back. Parallel ports are easy to use much like the GPIO pins on a Raspberry Pi except they are 5v not 3.3. I'm guessing the makers are looking at the replacement business and much of the stuff that wasn't updated on the Win98 -> Win 7 cycle was because of lack serial and parallel ports to talk to old equipment. Most of the old restaurant use serial ports and the bell signal to open the cash drawer.

Re:Want to know why it bugs you?

[berj]

How do you suppose they can close the analog hole when headphones, by their very nature, are analog devices? If you can attach a set of headphones (or a speaker) to a device then the analog hole exists. It's impossible for it to be closed. Even if a wireless connection is required to connect to those headphones.. the headphones themselves will *still* be an analog device with no possible way of protecting the signal with DRM. Just can't be done.

Re:Want to know why it bugs you?

[LynnwoodRooster]

Stream Tidal (or use their offline mode) on your phone - Redbook or better audio quality.

Re:Want to know why it bugs you?

[misnohmer]

Yea the first adapter is free. Next ones are not. Consider it a free sample, or a trial period. You don't even have to lose the dongle, Apple adapters for example just stop working. My kids go through 1 or 2 per year, they just die (nothing visually wrong with it, but just doesn't work anymore). .

Re:Want to know why it bugs you?

[hawguy]

How do you suppose they can close the analog hole when headphones, by their very nature, are analog devices? If you can attach a set of headphones (or a speaker) to a device then the analog hole exists. It's impossible for it to be closed. Even if a wireless connection is required to connect to those headphones.. the headphones themselves will *still* be an analog device with no possible way of protecting the signal with DRM. Just can't be done.

The final step is a digital port wired into your brain, but first they need to get rid of all of the analog outputs.

Re:Want to know why it bugs you?

[Luke has no name]

Has this EVER been corroborated? Like, is there an example of not being able to record or play amateur stuff on HDMI or thunderbolt/USB? Or is it just more FUD?

Re:Want to know why it bugs you?

[stud9920]

It's still a downgrade. The only thing you can do with these shitty, 1$ manufacturing cost, 20$ retail price earbuds is put them in a fucking iPhone. You can't put them in a fucking computer. You can't put them is a fucking portable gaming console

What are you people whining about?

[Anonymous Coward]

I've been using various BT headphones for years and years, way before it started being removed.

Being tethered with a cable from your pocket to your head is so damned uncomfortable and clunky. Far worse then having to *gasp* charge your device once in a while.

You might as well keep clamoring for floppy disks and CD burners for all they're worth too.

Good luck with that.

Re:What are you people whining about?

[ArchieBunker]

The fact that a once passive device now needs a battery. Headphones sat for a month and the battery died? Can't use them until they charge.

Re:What are you people whining about?

[fluffernutter]

...and the fact that the battery now has a lifetime/maximum charges.

Re:What are you people whining about?

[ArchieBunker]

That's even worse. Now you're consuming batteries.

I think it will come back, ... eventually

[140Mandak262Jamuna]

Smart phone market has saturated, and the shakeout is coming. I am sure the handsets with headphones will thrive, market research will show the value and it will come back.

Same way the free checked bags will come back. Aviation kerosene prices are set to plunge in five years. It will remove all the nickel and diming from the air lines, 35$ for exit row seats, 25$ for guaranteed aisle seat...

But the 40$ late fee for credit cards will stay. The banksters are cruel jerks and they got poor people by their balls. They are not going to stop squeezing anytime soon.

Re:I think it will come back, ... eventually

[Actually, I do RTFA]

I'm not sure why you think the airlines will remove the nickel-and-diming. Have they lost any flyers since they instituted it? IIRC, most airlines are pretty much running at capacity already, and Boeing has a years-long waiting list.

Re: I think it will come back, ... eventually

[Anonymous Coward]

I doubt the plane tickets will get that low.

But I am intrigued by the lower price of fuel. What's your reasoning? That would be interesting and cool if true

Re:I think it will come back, ... eventually

[Freischutz]

Smart phone market has saturated, and the shakeout is coming. I am sure the handsets with headphones will thrive, market research will show the value and it will come back.

Same way the free checked bags will come back. Aviation kerosene prices are set to plunge in five years. It will remove all the nickel and diming from the air lines, 35$ for exit row seats, 25$ for guaranteed aisle seat...

But the 40$ late fee for credit cards will stay. The banksters are cruel jerks and they got poor people by their balls. They are not going to stop squeezing anytime soon.

Like 8-track audio tape and Betamax?

Re:I think it will come back, ... eventually

[Anonymous Coward]

It will remove all the nickel and diming from the air lines, 35$ for exit row seats, 25$ for guaranteed aisle seat...

Hahahaha, pretty positive on the airline market there. Unfortunately they wont, as most airlines are already looking into pricing airfares and seat fares dynamically. There are some low-cost carriers that have seen more money when they did that, and more are already showing interest.

So expect more "smart" pricing as airlines maximize their profits.

Re: I think it will come back, ... eventually

[140Mandak262Jamuna]

Automotive batteries have gone through the tipping point. It is now simply a matter of producing them. It is below 120 $/kWh already and it is going to crack through 100 $/kWh soon.

An oil glut is coming.

Re: I think it will come back, ... eventually

[houghi]

No 40$ late fee where I live. I pay 8Eur late fee if I am late. Had to look it up, as payment happens automagically, like many other bills.

Re:I think it will come back, ... eventually

[thegarbz]

Same way the free checked bags will come back. Aviation kerosene prices are set to plunge in five years. It will remove all the nickel and diming from the air lines, 35$ for exit row seats, 25$ for guaranteed aisle seat...

You forget that we weren't being nickle and dimed. Rather the cost of the ticket has plummeted made possible by selective purchases of precisely the services you require. We all hate cable bundling but you're pining for the days when airlines bundled? Madness. Personally I'm much happier knowing I can fly 1200km for cost of an exit row seat upgrade. I certainly don't miss the days when a trip to another country cost 10x what it does now.

You want you free bag? Check in as a premier passenger. You get all the benefits of an economy passenger from 15 years ago and leave us in the cheap seats be.

Re:Seriously?

[alvinrod]

I'm not sure that it's serious so much as a troll post. Anyone who felt that strongly about a headphone port wouldn't have purchased a phone without one. Judging by the amount of shit it's already stirring up, I'd say it's a pretty successful troll at that.

Long phone calls

[ugen]

Add to the list - any long customer phone calls (like to any customer service, for example)
Before getting on a call I do 2 things:
1. plug in a set of headphones
2. plug the phone into power

3.5mm connector is not optional. As of now I own iPhone SE and expect to continue in foreseeable future (might buy another SE spare just in case). Eventually either:

Eventually I will have to decide between imessage/facetime (that's the primary reason I stick with IOS, though not being Google product is a close second) and the need to use 3.5mm connector. TBH I suspect that it would be easier to replace imessage/facetime (though since the entire family is on IOS it might take a while).

Re: Long phone calls

[Hallux-F-Sinister]

Too late. Assple has discontinued the SE. I knew those fuckers would do that, which is why I bought THREE. You might be able to snag a used one... best of luck to you.

Re:Long phone calls

[ceoyoyo]

You know you can get an adapter with both power and standard audio jack for $10-$15 on Amazon right?

Re:Long phone calls

[Enigma2175]

You know you can get an adapter with both power and standard audio jack for $10-$15 on Amazon right?

Which won't work, since Apple has decided to disable any "unapproved" accessory. Amazon is full of adapters that no longer work. I recently got a new work iPhone and it was a horrible experience to obtain a headphone jack adapter and I still need to ship the non-working ones back to Amazon so the experience isn't even over yet. I ended up paying the Apple tax and buying the "official" adapter from their store and it is low quality. It's made with very thin wire and flimsy jacks. It is already shorting out in one ear and I've only had it a month. The reviews for the adapter on Apple's site are all negative and say it's a piece of junk but I don't have a choice of another manufacturer since Apple has decided I can only buy Apple branded accessories. I'm stuck with this phone since my work only lets me update every 2 years but my next phone certainly won't be made by Apple and it will have a headphone jack.

Re:Long phone calls

[shilly]

I don't really get this. A pair of AirPods give you 2 hours of talk time on a single charge. How often do you have phone calls that last that long? Surely once in a blue moon? Then you stick them in their case and they're ready again in 15 mins.

Time may fix it

[Tablizer]

Maybe it's a me-too fad that will die off as people gradually realize they miss it and stop buying lame phones.

Apple manipulation

[daftna]

Like many aspects of Apple's newer business philosophies it is a blatant money grab. If they want to fix slumping sales then go back to putting the product before profits again. That's how they got to their position in the market today. Companies are constantly ripping us off. I used to look forward to Apple releases but now I just worry about what they're going to take away so that I have to buy more stuff (and I buy nothing new from Apple anymore).

Re: Apple manipulation

[Hallux-F-Sinister]

Me either. Done getting screwed by those bastards. Hope it was worth it to permanently loose this customer.

But, it's not rational

[Actually, I do RTFA]

How is it rational for me not to buy a device that, in total, is better than my current one. Sure, the lack of a headphone jack is a negative, and worse than the same phone with a headphone jack, but all in all, the new features may still make it a better phone.

It's not irrationality, it's coarseness of decisions. It's not like Apple offered two versions and let the market choose.

Re: But, it's not rational

[registrations_suck]

Rational people realize that technical merit is not the only component of overall merit.

Re:But, it's not rational

[AmiMoJo]

Your mistake was getting locked in to the Apple ecosystem. If you were on Android you would have a choice of many phones with headphone jacks.

Analog mini jack great Ethernet RJ45 too!

[aisnota]

The two ports:

1.) Analog mini jack for audio out and in

2.) Ethernet RJ 45

Mess with either and your business growth if used will suffer for sure.

Me it tops out iPhone 6s and forget the 7 and nice Xr Max OLED screen or even switch to Note a port be gone is a mistake for customer demand

Same goes for ports on network gear or even make it different for edge gear, security forces through App instead of at least a hard link to physical device, what?

USB-C is really just Ethernet flattened out looks like an interesting compressed compromised to be determined if it has staying power with a truce between Apple lightning/thunderbolt types with mainstreamed other makers gear.

However, under the hood all of us know it is still Ethernet with mangled frame identifiers and interconnection stack.

Re: Analog mini jack great Ethernet RJ45 too!

[93 Escort Wagon]

Wow, I've never seen a phone with an RJ-45 port!

But my iPhone 6S still has a headphone port, and the battery's in pretty good shape. And, when the battery eventually dies, I'll gladly pay $49 for a new one - beats paying $1200 for a new, headphone-jack-less phone.

Just because you miss it doesn't mean others do

[Strider-]

I don't miss it on my iPhone 7. The adapter that Apple shipped with the phone lives in the little pouch that came with my IEM ear buds, and everything else connects via Bluetooth, USB (Car), or wifi (home stereo).

Re:Seriously?

[hawguy]

I'm not sure that it's serious so much as a troll post. Anyone who felt that strongly about a headphone port wouldn't have purchased a phone without one. Judging by the amount of shit it's already stirring up, I'd say it's a pretty successful troll at that.

Every purchase is a tradeoff, you rarely get everything you want.

A headphone jack could very well be important to some people, but not as important as other features.

oh I forgot about those...

[Anonymous Coward]

Even though my iPhone 6s actually has one, I stopped using those way before Apple ever removed one because the port never worked right and was always full of pocket lint.

Removing the 3.5mm jack was not necessary

[Stonent1]

There was a guy on youtube that lives in China that was able to source the parts, and free up enough room inside his iPhone to readd a 3.5mm jack. He used one of those lightning to 3.5mm passthrough dongles and stripped it down to the bare minimum. So if some guy in his bedroom could do it, apple could have done it.

Re:Removing the 3.5mm jack was not necessary

[Stonent1]

Here is the link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=utfbE3_uAMA

Re:Removing the 3.5mm jack was not necessary

[hcs_$reboot]

New iPhones are water-resistant. Could be the reason.

Re:Removing the 3.5mm jack was not necessary

[MicroSlut]

You are correct and informative, but I have never wanted nor required a water-resistant phone.

Re:Removing the 3.5mm jack was not necessary

[thegarbz]

So are new (all other competitors premium phones which still have a 3.5mm jack). Hell the Galaxy series was IP rated with headphone jack before Apple even know what water resistance was.

Re:Seriously?

[sconeu]

USB sticks are superior in every way to a floppy disk; therefore invalid comparison.

Three words: Write Protect Tab.

Re: Seriously?

[fuzzyfuzzyfungus]

There was a somewhat uncomfortable period for anyone who wanted to sneakernet files to other people; floppies were cheap enough to give to someone who might not bring them back, flash drives not even close; but for personal storage the price difference wasn't so bad(helped by the fact that floppies had tepid reliability and were individually quite small, so the fact that you could buy a 100 pack and have 140mb of space for way less than a 128mb flash drive was less helpful in practice). CD-Rs also helped soften the blow: much more capacious and acceptably cheap for situations where you were not expecting them to return.

Re: Seriously?

[NFN_NLN]

A high density floppy drive held 1.44MB. You could get a 128MB USB drive for $0.25/MB in 2003 with a whopping $33 investment.

https://www.jcmit.net/flashpri...

A floppy drive was popular because there were no alternatives. Zip drives proved that.

Why didn't you switch to another phone ?

[Crashmarik]

Even with my carrier's very limited set of choices for phones (mainly apple product) , I had no trouble finding a perfectly good smart phone with a headphone jack and at about a 1/3rd the price of the lowest end Apple product.

So if you wanted the feature and don't have it, don't blame markets for not working blame yourself for not making them work. They aren't magic after all, they represent the summation of all the participants decisions.

Revable batteries...

[fbobraga]

... the lack of it was the first "fail" to me (it's a reason why I still keep my S5 [it shines with http://lineageos.org/ ] :P)

I Don't Miss the Headphone Jack

[Carcass666]

This isn't an appropriately Luddite response for Slashdot, but I don't miss the headphone jack. Why? Because I don't miss one-half of my audio disappearing when I bumped the cable or, worse, the headphone jack just stop working for one ear because the contacts got messed up in the jack itself. I don't miss the cable flapping around. I don't miss bending/breaking the plugs that for some mind-numbing reason rarely were the 90-degree angle that would keep them from getting bent/broken.

Yeah, charging headphones is a bit of a pain. But so is charging my phone, my notebook and my tablet. I've learned to deal with that. If ditching the headphone jack truly was a trade-off to allow more room for a battery, I'm fine with it, I'd rather have the battery life. Perhaps if I was also a blogger for Tech Crunch or similar publication, I would have enough devices that the Bluetooth pairing issue described would be annoying, but I don't. For me, and my small universe of devices, Bluetooth headphones work well enough, even the cheap Ankers I use 90% of the time.

I don't see this as a freedom (or "bravery") topic or even a big deal. It's an area where for reasons of efficiency (or more likely, cost) the market moved away from something. For the audiophiles with $400 cans, they were complaining about the digitized music in the first place. For the people who miss getting cheap $10 headphones at Ross or Marshall's that they could lose or throw away without feeling bad, there are almost as-cheap Bluetooth alternatives. It sort of reminds me when physical keyboards went away. We adapted, and we're fine.

Re:I Don't Miss the Headphone Jack

[DigiShaman]

Apple no longer has an excuse to allow 24-bit audio now that the DAC was removed from the motherboard. The fact we still don't have it points out that Apple is a little bitch!

Re:I Don't Miss the Headphone Jack

[mark-t]

Yeah, charging headphones is a bit of a pain. But so is charging my phone, my notebook and my tablet. I've learned to deal with that.

That would be fine if the phone had a dock embedded right into the device, not unlike a pen dock on some devices, which charged the cordless earphones when the phone is also plugged in.... it would also provide a convenient storage that you don't have to keep separate track of when you aren't using the bluetooth headphones.

Re:I Don't Miss the Headphone Jack

[fluffernutter]

You know you aren't supposed to be sticking paper clips in there, right?

Re:I Don't Miss the Headphone Jack

[apoc.famine]

Yeah, charging headphones is a bit of a pain.

And this is where our use-cases diverge. I use my headphones every few months, but when I need them, I tend to need them for a few hours. For this, wireless headphones are not a solution, at least until they retain charge indefinitely.

Micro-USB or USB-C headphone adapters come with the issue that most don't allow charging at the same time. You really need to pay more for that. And it requires buying and keeping yet another piece of equipment around, with all the exponentially more things that can go wrong as you link more and more hardware together. Not many people seem to be as hamfisted as you when it comes to using the headphone jack, and I honestly don't understand how the technology was so hard for you to use. But given this complaint, I would expect you, of all people, to understand that adding an expensive dongle to a phone that allows charging and audio through a wired headset at the same time makes such issues far more likely than a dedicated port.

For many years now I've carried a moderately priced set of 3.5mm headphones in my bag rolled into a little loop. When I need them, they're there. The rest of the time they are tucked out of the way. You could use your bluetooth headset or headphones this whole time too. We both got what we needed to fit our use-cases. There are zero benefits to me to suddenly be forced to move to wireless headphones or an expensive dongle. And from the comments here, I don't seem many other people seeing a benefit either.

I don't see this as a freedom (or "bravery") topic or even a big deal.

Then you are blind. If they had kept the option for wired, it wouldn't be a big deal. You could have your best fit, and we could have ours. Removing that option and charging a lot of money to be able to charge and listen to headphones is a big deal. Charging a lot more money for headphones and accessories is a big deal. Requiring another dongle is a big deal. All of these things were not necessary in the least, as they were solved by a $0.10 port that has been used for decades, and will still be useful for decades.

It is a big deal when multiple companies remove functionality from their products in the name of additional profits.

Re:I Don't Miss the Headphone Jack

[thegarbz]

We adapted, and we're fine.

Nope, People who didn't like the old way adapted. The rest of the people still happily use their headphones in their phones that have headphone ports. Apple's sickness is well and truly a minority in the market, quite unlike physical keyboards which have nearly all disappeared.

I was sitting next to guy on an Iberia flight recently and they actually specifically called out not using Bluetooth during takeoff and landing. The guy next to me took off his Bose 35 series headphones. Me... I just plugged a cable into the bottom of mine and kept listening.

600 other manufacturers do

[raymorris]

I just walked through the electronics section of a general merchandise store and there are no fewer than 30 different phone models available within 10 feet of me right now. At least 27 of those have headphone jacks. Most of them are available at a much lower price than the iPhone. Rationally, people with different needs and desires would choose different phones. This LG on my left is probably the best choice for 3% of buyers, the more expensive LG two feet away is probably the rational choice for 2% of buyers, the iPhone is probably the best for 2% of people, etc. The difference between the 2% of people who *should* buy iPhones and the number who *actually* buy iPhones is the number of irrational iPhone purchases.

Re:600 other manufacturers do

[Actually, I do RTFA]

I mean, that's an anecdote with superficial plausibility. But you're assuming what you want to show... namely that the iPhone is only the best choice for 2% of people. And, of course, people who naturally agree with you about the lack of iPhone merits are voting you up

I'm not sure why you think that the iPhone is such a bad choice for over 100 million Americans (and many more outside the US). It's amazing that you know more about their needs than they do. Or, the alternative, that their preferences are different from what you would expect to prefer. I mean, I would point to FaceBook as an example of "why would anyone want this", but clearly a lot of people have made a decision that they do. I'm not so arrogant as to say they're irrational, just that they put a different value on their privacy.

Re:600 other manufacturers do

[Shikaku]

It's really very simple: indifference until it starts hurting them. People do know that about the Facebook Cambridge fiasco, but it didn't actually hurt them so they don't care.

There are options for the security conscious however: get a model that doesn't even really run code much at all (like a single function cell phone) or get a model that supports LineageOS, where you can choose to not install Google Play at all or as little as possible: from here, start with Pico and manually install if needed https://opengapps.org/?api=8.1...

Re:600 other manufacturers do

[Actually, I do RTFA]

I mean, if you were logged in, l'd be happy to go over the numerous reasons you may want an iPhone. I can make an excellent case for it, for an Android and for a dumbphone.

I just bought some iPods

[mveloso]

I've forgotten to charge my BT headphones, or just plain forgot my BT headset, or forgotten my dongle so many times that I just bought a couple of old iPods, converted them to flash, and carry them around with me.

I could care less about waterproofing. I dropped or placed my iPhone in water like 0 times in the last 11 years.

After evaluating my iPhone usage, I'll be moving back to an iPhone SE this year. I'll miss the camera, but I have a real camera that I can carry around now.

I have a headphone port

[julian67]

I have a headphone port and it is immensely useful while still being crappy in some respects. My phone is an LG V20. The audio system is excellent: it adaptively supports low and high impedance IEMs and headphones. It offers bit perfect decoding and playback of all the music I own (ranges from 16-bit 44100 kHz to 24-bit 88200 kHz derived from SACD as well as purchased 24-bit 96 and 192 kHz tracks. But the port/jack itself is a thowback, and especially bad on a portable device that is exposed to the elements, pocket lint etc.

Surely the ideal solution is not to force the decoding and amplification into a low power and inadequate chip, but to update the very simple physical interface from a crude jack into to one of pins with reliable connection and the capacity to be adapted and enhanced? It would also make converters very simple and cheap and universal. ....oh shit, I forgot....it's not about quality or customer satisfaction, it's about squeezing more money out of us cattle.

How long will you have a choice?

[tepples]

I don't buy phones that don't have one.

Tell that to someone who resolved not to buy phones that lack a QWERTY keyboard.

Re:How long will you have a choice?

[dinfinity]

Good news, though! The market may actually finally provide what we desire:
https://www.readyfx.com/
https://twitter.com/livermoriu...

They only recently reneged on their keyboard Moto Mod and instead announced that they were switching to developing a complete device: https://www.indiegogo.com/proj...
It could still turn out to be a disappointment, but I am nevertheless cautiously optimistic. At least someone seems to be seriously developing a (landscape) slider, because Blackberry sure as fuck isn't anymore (I bought and use the Priv).

Re: How long will you have a choice?

[Mars Saxman]

I'm typing this comment on my shiny new-ish Blackberry KeyOne, an Android phone with a QWERTY keyboard. It took about a week to adapt back to using physical keys, but after a few months of use I'm totally content. So much less frustration when you can actually feel the keys!

Re: How long will you have a choice?

[xystren]

Hear Ye! Hear He! Another KeyOne user here also. I can not stand touchscreens and touchscreen keyboards in general - they just don't respond, and when they do, it is always the wrong key. It funny when you freak out your friends with their "swipe" keyboards, where you can swipe and they don't respond at all (not even a wrong word).

I used to have 3 cardinal rules for when I was choosing a phone... 1) User replaceable battery (which unfortunately was the first to go); 2) User installable memory card (see ya later Apple); 3) Physical keyboard (hello BlackBerry/BB Mobile)... I've had to compromise on #1, as virtually all phone today are "factory sealed" with regards to the battery.

I also really miss BB10 as an operating system. I've been about a year and a half with my KeyOne, and still, I continually miss BB10, and curse Android - it's a compromise as physical keyboard phones are few and far between. :(

There is something to be said for a true tactile response on the keyboard that touchscreen just can't replicate.

Re:How long will you have a choice?

[sad_]

i had an android phone once with a keyboard, the keyboard slide out from under the screen. the screen was the full size of the device, as was the keyboard. the models where the keyboard and the screen share the same space are just dumb. ok, the phone was thick, but i didn't really mind (current phones are too thin anyway).

Re: How long will you have a choice?

[IWantMoreSpamPlease]

Another BB K1 user here. and very happy about the keyboard being real. Fantastic phone, even with Android (or possibly in spite of Android)
I'd like to root mine to dump some of the crap pre-installed, but alas, can't have everything...

May Have My 2 Yr Old S7 Edge

[rally2xs]

... a really long time if the only new alternative is a phone without a headphone jack. Use the H out of it, and am NOT going to buy a new set of bluetooth headphones or some cockeyed adapter. That's just the way it is. That is all...

Re:Easy...

[PPH]

Apostasy is a crime punishable by death.

Can't spell radio without ad

[tepples]

The vast majority of FM radio is ads 24/7. Even the music is ads for the albums the songs are on.

Re:Can't spell radio without ad

[mfearby]

Maybe you should try ABC Classic FM in Australia :-D No advertisements at all (though sometimes the music is not particularly classical and I have to switch off; beats listening to the local ad-riddled pop station playing tripe while I'm driving).

Re:Can't spell radio without ad

[Carewolf]

The vast majority of FM radio is ads 24/7. Even the music is ads for the albums the songs are on.

Not in countries with ad-free public radio.

Re:Can't spell radio without ad

[Hognoxious]

(inb4 cayenne8 & ShanghaiBill)

So do you live in Venezuela or Zimbabwe?

Re:Can't spell radio without ad

[tepples]

Where I live, I can get WBOI (NPR news), WBNI (NPR classical), and a couple Christian stations, but everything else is nonstop ads. Or ought one news station and one classical station to be enough for anyone, like 640K?

Re:Can't spell radio without ad

[PhotoJim]

Canada here. Hi. I live in a small city of 250,000 and we have five commercial-free radio stations here, including our community radio station.

Re:Can't spell radio without ad

[CohibaVancouver]

>> The vast majority of FM radio is ads 24/7

> Not in countries with ad-free public radio.

I live in a country with ad-free public radio (Canada).

Nevertheless, the grandparent is correct - The vast majority of FM radio is ad-supported - Only three channels on my FM dial are public, and one of those is in a language I don't speak (French).

Re:Can't spell radio without ad

[Carewolf]

>> The vast majority of FM radio is ads 24/7

> Not in countries with ad-free public radio.

I live in a country with ad-free public radio (Canada).

Nevertheless, the grandparent is correct - The vast majority of FM radio is ad-supported - Only three channels on my FM dial are public, and one of those is in a language I don't speak (French).

True, but if it is anything like Europe, those ad-supported stations have an order of magnitude fewer ads than American radio stations since they have to compete with those few ad-free stations. Which makes them much more sufferable. Plus everybody listens to the public ones anyway as they have been content.

Re:On the other hand...

[hcs_$reboot]

That's the thing, even having the jack you can still use bluetooth if you wish.

tiny bluetooth keyboard?

[bobby]

https://www.amazon.com/iPazzPort-Wireless-Handheld-Raspberry-KP-810-19S/dp/B01CE70TZC/ref=pd_sbs_147_6/142-7673154-9324127

two months later...

[Espectr0]

...i still miss the notification LED which seems to have been killed by every premium android phone maker. let's see what samsung does with the S10.

Re:two months later...

[MicroSlut]

Yeah, I remember my Blackberry from 2007 that had a red LED that would blink when a new message arrived. I loved that! With my current phone I can wave my hand over it and it shows me all the info I want, but it doesn't work from across the room. I still have my old Motorola razr (in great condition) that I am saving for the Smithsonian Institute.

Yep me too

[ReneR]

That's why I did not buy a new iPhone, and I just tweeted it this morning, too: https://twitter.com/renebln/st... guess my next phone will by a Samsung Galaxy or so –can even run my desktop Linux on it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

A simple solution

[Gimric]

Here's a suggestion - Have tried NOT being a whiny little bitch? I find that works for me.

I tell ya what, I'll send you my spare dongle (I, unlike you, manage to keep my bluetooth headphones charged) and you can stop post annoying stories. Deal?

Arithmetic

[raymorris]

> It's amazing that you know more about their needs than they do. Or, the alternative, that their preferences are different from what you would expect to prefer.

Quite the opposite. I'm assuming (knowing) that different people have different needs and preferences. People prefer different screen sizes, battery life, value price differently, etc. "Everyone should get an iPhone" would assume everyone is exactly the same.

> agree with you about the lack of iPhone merits are voting you up

Actually my numbers have the iPhone being best for 37.5 times as many people as the average phone model.
  I'm assuming that iPhones are 37X "better" than the average smartphone.

OpenSignal reports that their app has been installed on 24,000 different models of smartphone. About 20 of those are iPhones.

*All other things being equal* (they're not), each phone model would be the best match for 0.00416667% of people. Multiplied by 20 iPhone models, 0.083333% of people would be best matched by an iPhone.

Since some phones aren't the best for *anyone*, some photos are objectively better, we can reasonably (but debateably) assert that iPhone models are much, much better than average. Instead of being the best match for only 0.08% of people, as the arithmetic suggests, if we multiply the iPhones desirability by 37.5 times, we get 3% of people who would be best served by an iPhone.

Re:Arithmetic

[Actually, I do RTFA]

I'm kinda shocked by this logic. Clearly, phones are unequal. There's no reason to use the total number of phone models as anything interesting. For one thing, Android models churn much faster, because Android model IDs change when the OS gets upgraded on the same hardware or depending on the carrier. What matters is how many phones are available in a store at one time.

The second issue is that subdividing similar products doesn't make each equally likely, because you ignore bucketing. If there were 10 Chinese restaurants, and 90 pizza restaurants, your logic would say that the Chinese restaurants (on a whole) do 10% of the business. But that ignores that how people actually decide things. They decide on pizza or Chinese first, then choose a restaurant. So, even if pizza was three times as popular, you would expect the Chinese restaurants as a whole to do 25% of the business. Which would make each chinese restaurant three times as busy. And that's not suggesting quality, it's saying that, as people choose, important questions (OS) are answered before minutia such as screen size,

Lastly, you're again assuming bullshit. you have this holy 37X better. Clearly, according to crowdsourced research, the answer is that about 1/3 people prefers an iPhone. That measure has real world implications, not naval gazing. If you want to demonstrate that those people are wrong, you have to show it some other way. For what it's worth, Samsung phones enjoy a similar premium in choice.

Re:Arithmetic

[Actually, I do RTFA]

Huh, no. That's a stupid argument I reject, because there's nothing there. He assumes that they are irrational and uses that to dismiss the only evidence. Note, Samsung phones (of which there are a only few more current models than iPhones) have a similar highmarket share.

I guess I need a car analogy. If 1/3 of the market bought pick ups, and the other 2/3 bought sedans, it would be stupid to say "But the only pickup is an F-150, there are so many more models of sedans. So F-150 purchasers must be irrational." Similarly, if suddenly the number of sedan models doubled overnight, there may be an uptick in sedan purchases from former truck owners, but hardly the 2x increase his math suggests. Esp. if the differences are things like color or power windows instead of "now able to tow X"

Re: Just because you miss it doesn't mean others d

[Hallux-F-Sinister]

Just because you donâ(TM)t doesnâ(TM)t mean others donâ(TM)t. I only donâ(TM)t because I have never bought a smartphone without a headphone jack. Far as Iâ(TM)m concerned it is required equipment. I would never (and will never) buy one without it. When my existing collection of iPhone SEs dies, then I will either buy a different brand of smartphone, a dumbphone, or a no-phone-at-all.

I will NOT REWARD Apple for trying to rip me off and force me to buy their crappy headphones.

My phone uses wired headphones and they JUST WORK. The headphones never have problems connecting, and have yet to run out of power before the phone does.

Re:Seriously?

[ceoyoyo]

The true hipster buys a product and then complains bitterly (years later even) about a missing feature that it obviously didn't have at purchase time.

I don't miss it. I didn't use it when I had it.

[swillden]

I quit using wired headphones at least four or five years ago, maybe more. Wireless is better. Other people obviously have different preferences, but I don't get why. I have two sets of Bluetooth headphones, one on my head and one charging. If I were less scatterbrained I could get by with only one, because the ones I use have 8+ hours of battery life and charge in an hour or so, so if I just plugged them in when I took them off I'd be fine. But I don't, so I spend an extra $8 for a second pair, so that when the ones I'm wearing die, the others are always fully charged. Actually I own three pairs; I splurged and blew $8 on the third pair just so I'd have a backup if one of the first two pairs dies.

This is much less hassle than dealing with wires that get caught on stuff and rip the headphones out of my ears. Or have to be threaded somehow through my ski jacket to keep my phone safe inside while letting me listen. Or worse, that get caught in spinning machinery when I'm working in my shop or mowing the lawn or something, and get ripped out of my ears and wrapped around the piece of equipment. Or worse yet, pull my phone out of my pocket and throw it onto the ground -- or into a table saw blade (yes, that happened).

Nope, wires suck. I put my phone safely away in a pocket, or over on a shelf near my work area but safely out of the danger zone.

I don't mind having a headphone jack, mind you. It ends up packed full of pocket lint couldn't easily be used even if I wanted to, but it doesn't bother me. But I'll never actually use the thing.

Re:I don't miss it. I didn't use it when I had it.

[apoc.famine]

When I need headphones for the first time in three months, and I reach into my bag and pull them out, will the bluetooth ones still have any charge? I ask, because if I leave them on the charger, they won't be in my bag when I need them. And I certainly am not about to set a calendar reminder every week to charge the headphones I'm not using. That's stupid, given that my wired ones work every time even after a couple years of ignoring them.

Re:I don't miss it. I didn't use it when I had it.

[swillden]

When I need headphones for the first time in three months, and I reach into my bag and pull them out, will the bluetooth ones still have any charge? I ask, because if I leave them on the charger, they won't be in my bag when I need them. And I certainly am not about to set a calendar reminder every week to charge the headphones I'm not using. That's stupid, given that my wired ones work every time even after a couple years of ignoring them.

OTOH, if you use headphones so rarely, just having a dongle in the bag with them (the one that came with the phone) will work fine.

Personally, I use mine for 20-30 hours per week, sometimes more.

Re:I don't miss it. I didn't use it when I had it.

[apoc.famine]

That free dongle that allows charging and using the headphones at the the same time which comes with the phone and will be supported for the life of the phone? Or that expensive dongle that I need to purchase which may or may not work at a later date if the phone manufacturer decides to update their software, since this needs to interface with the USB-C port as an "officially supported piece of hardware"?

All that cost and effort just to deny us a $0.10 port that works just fine. It's really a load of crap. FFS, I'd rather pay $20 more to have the 3.5mm port back in the phone than pay that for a dongle. But that's the point, right? I can lose, break, or they can stop supporting that dongle. The headphone jack? It just works, and there's no additional profit available from it.

Re:I don't miss it. I didn't use it when I had it.

[swillden]

If you only use headphones every few months, how often do those uses coincide with needing to charge? If it's common, then it seems like your bigger problem is needing a larger (or swappable) battery.

USB-IF isn't dominated by one company

[tepples]

So when was the last time that you used a keyboard with a PS/2 connector?

The analogy between the PS/2 to USB transition and the 3.5 mm to Lightning transition is imperfect. First, the governing body for USB (USB Implementers Forum) isn't nearly as dominated by one company as the governing body for Lightning (only Apple). Second, the vast majority of laptops with USB ports still have a barrel connector for power; only Apple is pushing laptops that have only one port to connect both peripherals and the charger.

Re:Seriously?

[dryeo]

My backup, cheapo corded phone that I get out in power failures, has a switch to use pulse. Used to be quite common though I haven't looked in years

I have 2 use cases for my headphone jack

[Snotnose]

1) When I hike. Plug my earbuds into my phone and I'm good for hours, long as the phone is charged. No headphone jack means $100-200 for new earbuds that sound as good as what I have now
2) At home. Plug my wireless headphones into my phone and I'm good till I have to take out the trash, or whatever. No headphone jack means I spend $100-$300 for new wireless headphones. Yeah this sounds stupid. Thing is, my wireless headphones sound better than my current sound system, and I wear them for 2-3 hours a day

In other words, take away my headphone jack and you can add a few hundred $$$ to the price of your phone for me to get back to normal.

OTOH:
1) My hikes could be from the basement to Mom's fridge. I never really said.
2) It's a basement, mom's drunk. watevs

Re:Seriously?

[MicroSlut]

WTF? The write protect tab on a 3.5" floppy is a hardware feature. Software cannot override it. Damn Anonymous Cowards.

Re: Seriously?

[tepples]

If your file is smaller than 1.25 MB, $33 is a lot of money to spend to sneakernet one copy of a file to one person. It was also bigger than many email providers' attachment limit prior to wide availability of Gmail.

Define "not that expensive" for USB flash drive

[tepples]

It depends on what you call "not that expensive". Even a no-name USB flash drive is more expensive than a blank floppy or CD for the purposes of distributing physical copies of data to the public. This includes, for example, distributing source code "on a medium customarily used for software interchange" pursuant to the GNU General Public License, GNU Lesser General Public License, or another copyleft license.

Correct me if I'm wrong though, with a link to a reliable source of bulk USB flash drives.

It's because of DRM.

[thedarb]

Once no phones have analog headphone jacks, they can lock down the audio with DRM. Just as they did when they put HDCP on HDMI. You are being quietly herded into a world with no analog audio out, and then the DRM will come. Your existing bluetooth devices and audio dongles will be dropped, in favor of only DRM approved headphones.

How can none of you see this coming? Listen to us tin-foil hat types, we keep turning out to be right about this stuff.

Re: It's because of DRM.

[thedarb]

Audio jack out to cassette adapter for your older car. Audio jack out to cassette recorder. Audio jack out to audacity to record that podcast or audio book. Audio jack out to record a call. There are people who do these things. There is more to audio than just music. Why all the hate, dude?

I don't miss it.

[Guspaz]

I got a phone that has no headphone jack a few months ago. I didn't notice the difference. I was already using bluetooth headphones on the previous phone anyhow.

Re:I don't miss it.

[iggymanz]

so you're tone deaf? the sounds quality is garbage.

Re:I don't miss it.

[Guspaz]

It's AAC at up to 250 Kbps. Only an audiophile would consider 250 Kbps AAC to be "tone deaf garbage". Personally, I can't tell the difference, and I doubt the vast majority of people can either.

Things have come a long way from the early days of bluetooth audio.

Re:I don't miss it.

[iggymanz]

Even with the impressive high number of frequency response there is distortion, another issue.

I'm not audiophile but I can hear it, went back to wired.

Re:I don't miss it.

[Guspaz]

The latency is usually a much bigger problem with bluetooth audio for me than the quality. It's generally mitigated on phones, since there is latency compensation on the OS level (at least iOS does) for video playback. On a PC, via bluetooth, there may not be the automatic latency compensation, though you can often adjust audio latency manually in some video players.

If neither the OS nor the player compensate for the latency, and you're not using a really low latency audio codec (there's a version of aptx for low latency, IIRC), then you may have lip sync issues with video, and audio latency can also cause problems for certain games.

All that said, there is, at least, a backup. If I'm trying to do something on my phone, and that thing is latency sensitive, and iOS doesn't correct for the latency, then I can always fall back on the dongle. Which, when you think about it, isn't all that different to how I need to use a 3.5mm to quarter inch adapter to use headphones on my desktop PC's DAC.

Bigger problems (offtopic)

[MicroSlut]

I work with tech and I see a lot of phones. There are many issues, like phone calls drop when enabling wi-fi sharing, or the screen turning black when enabling wi-fi sharing, etcetera, but the biggest problem I see with all phones? Cracked screens. Screw the water-resistant, high-def blue tooth, AI enabled smart voicemail crap. Make a more durable screen. The more edge-to-edge screens I see, the more they shatter. What's the point of getting a slim phone if you put a giant Otterbox around it?

FUCK APPLE

[sproketboy]

ntr

and no shops stock USB headphones

[cheekyboy]

Walk into many audio shops, retail shops, dept stores, cheap stores, where they have dozens of headphones, ALL ARE 3.5s

No one at all stocks USB native headphones, or rarely at massive high prices.

Adapters? well... still rare to find, or 10x EBAY prices at retail stores.

Apple+Google+Others = Your are dicks, moron managers, who never listen to music, who ignore their engineers, and I bet even their own kids prefer a old style socket. So you might be rich ass fuckers, but your dumbass fuckers.

Re:and no shops stock USB headphones

[luther349]

walk into the pc area they have usb. walk to the cellphone are tons and tons of Bluetooth.

When you need the port, you need the port.

[thadtheman]

I just checked and Bose QuietComfort Headphones have a jack so you can connect to a device via audio connector. The only BT headphones that don't have the port are inexpensive noname ones, or brands like Soundbot. ( around $!5-$20 ).

As for devices i would never get one without an audio port.Most of the time I don't miss it, but there are a few times when i need it. Usualy when I need it I really need it.

Compressed Approximation of Music

[registrations_suck]

Right. So how would you describe the âoemusicâ stored on my phone?

Re:Compressed Approximation of Music

[fluffernutter]

It depends whether you went out of your way to get lossless or not. I generally use flac for the best stuff myself.

Re: Just because you miss it doesn't mean others d

[apoc.famine]

Just because you donâ(TM)t doesnâ(TM)t mean others donâ(TM)t. I only donâ(TM)t because I have never bought a smartphone without a headphone jack. Far as Iâ(TM)m concerned.....I will NOT REWARD Apple for trying to rip me off

We are all now 100% convinced that you don't use any apple products, and have not been ripped off by them. And will most certainly never reward them for it.

I'm fine

[jimbo]

I used wired headphones with an adapter on a phone with no headphone port because I don't want to bother with charging BT devices. I don't notice the adapter in daily use, it's just there.
I have wireless phone chargers so don't need splitter adapter but generally I only need to charge when I sleep anyway.

So I really don't notice a problem in daily life and it's not that I'm a fanboi, I detest loyalty of this sort and I've had both Android and iPhones and enjoyed both.

Just offering the view that there's differing opinions and they're all valid because of different usecases. I'm happy there's still choice and hope it'll remain for those to whom it matters.

um... right

[arsenix]

Two years later I still have a headphone jack on my phone... still have only used it a handful of times in those two years. Occasionally nice to have as a fallback but otherwise who cares. All my Bluetooth stuff works great.

Apple does what they think people want. Android makers will just do what people buy. Honestly most people (including me) could care less at this point about the headphone jack. I'm sure there will always be Android phones will headphone jacks for the ./'er crowd who reminisces about the "good old" analog days.

Fix bluetooth

[LostMyAccount]

Seriously, bluetooth is part of this problem.

Most bluetooth headphones that can pair with multiple devices have a clunky and non-standard method of switching between paired devices, often that depends with switching off bluetooth on one of them. Many can't pair with more than one device at all. Devices suck too, often not willing to output to more than one device (bluetooth or otherwise) at once.

So this means invariably unless you dedicate headphones to specific devices, your bluetooth configuration will most likely be wrong or require a bunch of intervention to get working.

I don't quite get why bluetooth (with some kind of protocol changes, most likely) couldn't be much smoother with multiple devices, allowing multi-device pairing (multicasting if you will) so your headphones could get audio from your pc, your phone, and whatever else all at the same time. And the fucking other devices should be willing to send so that all the paired receivers can receive audio.

The headphone jack problem would be a lot less bad if bluetooth worked right.

Re:Fix bluetooth

[mark_reh]

I think part of it may have to do with privacy/security. If multiple devices can pair up, your phone call may be getting broadcast into someone else's earphones as well as your own.

Re:Fix bluetooth

[LostMyAccount]

I'm sure the answer somewhere is tied to design decisions tied to security and the assumption that the user interface/computing functionality of headphone devices would always be primitive. Kind of 640K ought to be enough for everybody mindset.

But really, there's no reason that you have to give up security for added functionality. I'm pretty sure there could be a pairing/security mechanism that puts all the right keys on the right devices so they can listen to sender broadcasts.

Reverse that POV

[fyngyrz]

You're looking at it backwards. From the designer's point of view, the beauty of breaking the phone is that someone gets to sell you a new one. If everyone jumps on the bandwagon, even changing vendors won't help. And you'll note that even Samsung and Google are beginning to suck down this particular mug of koolaid. Either you go without a phone (which most people won't do) or there's a brand new cause of planned obsolescence, plus they get to sell you more dongles, batteries, chargers, etc.

Follow the money. Pretty much always works. Also keep in mind that companies are like people: the people they are like are sociopaths and psychopaths.

Bluetooth is the pleh

[jd]

Low quality, hackable from 1.6 miles away due to a total lack of security, SOP is to disable Bluetooth on any device you care about. The only relationship to the Vikings is tgat it makes you easy to plunder.

But from a headphone stamdpoint, it's the quality that suffers the most.

I buy high end heafphones. If I can't use them on a device, I don't use that device for audio or won't buy the device at all.

*mutter mutter* off *mutter mutter* lawn.

You're not alone

[hcs_$reboot]

#MeToo

Re: I don't. . You don't have to pair it again..

[DutchDopey]

In the Apple eco system you don't have to pair your headphones again and again. You just choose the headphones at the device you are using, iCloud syncing has managed it for you. As I think about it, it actually is more convenient in that regard than a plug.

Just specifically purchased a phone with one

[AbRASiON]

And a flat screen too!
Beast processor also

Going to try and get 5 full years a out of it, until this stupid curved screen and headphone jack far has circled back around.

Wrong Headline. Lamenting.

[stooo]

>> 'Two Years Later, I Still Miss the Headphone Port'

That's a hell of a wrong headline, it should read :

"Two Years Later, I Still Buy The Wrong Phone For My Use Case And Lament"

Battery service for 6S to keep my earphone jack

[PKI Champion]

Apple is running a deal until the end of the year for battery replacement service. My 6S just got new life and will keep my earphone jack going strong for years to come, until perhaps Apple figures out a way to brick the jack like they did cell data service with iOS.

The problem with bluetooth headphones

[fluffernutter]

The problem with bluetooth headphones is that you do not know what you are getting. Demo them at a shop all you want, but there is no way to tell how long a battery will be able to charge at full capacity or whether it will completely give up 1.1 years into the life of the device. Then you're shopping for headphones again. Wires are just far simpler, and I find you generally get what you pay for. Yes there are some cheap buds that break after a week, but buy anything over $20 and you will generally have them for awhile.

Never used it before, doesn't matter

[Arkham]

Reading the comments, there are clearly a large group of people who loved their headphone jacks. I was never one of them. I always got the cords tangled, and I found the whole process of plugging and unplugging and managing the wad of cord in my pocket annoying. I'd bought some Bluetooth headphones long before the headphone jack left the iPhone line. I got some over-ear ones from Amazon for using in bed at night. I bought some Anker BT earbuds for the gym also. I liked them for the most part, but keeping them charged was annoying.

Recently though my wife bought me some AirPods. Honestly, they're what wireless headphones should be. The case charges them, they automatically pair and activate when you stick them in your ears, and they deactivate when you take them out. It even pauses the music/podcast when you remove them. I know it's cool to base Apple these days but this is a great product that shows you how it could be better than what came before.

I think the big issue is most people, like me, thought all Bluetooth headphones were basically the same thing. They aren't.

Re:Seriously?

[thegarbz]

Just like some folks miss the floppy disk and the rotary-dial phone...

Oh really? You can find someone like that?

ingenue mulligan

[epine]

Many people, through no fault of their own, have become locked into the Apple ecosystem, and Apple killed their last phone with 3.5mm socket a few months ago.

Are you on drugs?

From videotape format war:

Although Betamax initially owned 100% of the market in 1975 (as VHS did not launch until the following year) the perceived value of longer recording times eventually tipped the balance in favor of VHS.

By 1980, VHS had proven favorable among consumers and was successful in controlling 60 percent of the North American market.

By 1981, sales of Beta machines in the United States had sunk to 25% of the VCR market.

As movie studios, video studios, and video rental stores turned away from Betamax, the combination of lower market share and a lack of available titles further strengthened VHS's position.

In the United Kingdom Beta held a 25% market share, but by 1986 it was down to 7.5%, and continued to decline further.

By the mid-1980s every sentient consumer on the planet (with less than a PhD in navel lint) knew that consumer gadgets—like marriage—are a package deal. And like marriage, "caveat emptor" is the word of the day, as every now-unplayable Betamax fairly tale soundly advises.

Typically, the ingenue is beautiful, kind, gentle, sweet, virginal, and often naive, in mental or emotional danger, or even physical danger, usually a target of the cad; whom she may have mistaken for the hero.

That pretty much sums up the iPhone right there: reeked of true love (at first sight), but ultimately just another chiselled, gracile cad right from the splendid skirt-lift of the inaugural staged event.

Re:ingenue mulligan

[quenda]

Many people, through no fault of their own, have become locked into the Apple ecosystem, and Apple killed their last phone with 3.5mm socket a few months ago.

Are you on drugs?

I was aiming for condescending (toward iPhone users) :-)
Maybe they were given one as a hand-me-down from parents, or from work?

The original iPhone kind of sucked. No copy&paste even! But the early Androids (later) were not great either.

Now, either one is great, and we are just arguing over details.

My Comparison

[dcw3]

I've had an iPhone 6s since they first arrived, and two sets of headphones, one bluetooth, one wired (Bose noise cancelling earbuds). I've used the Bose for noisy places like airplanes and I love them, but my bluetooth headset works great for places like the gym, and has 8 hr charge capacity. I'm very happy with the music playback quality on both. So, now that I picked up an iPhone XS, the only reason I'll miss the port is because of the Bose...gotta pick up a dongle cuz I won't replace the Bose until they break...they were expensive but worth it IMO.

Re: I don't miss it. I didn't use it when I had it

[swillden]

Biggest problem is latency. Bluetooth adds around 200 milliseconds. Tolerable if you're listening to music. Horrible if playing a game or using a video player without audio delay adjustments.

I don't notice any latency when watching video or playing games, and I'm pretty sensitive to latency. I think you must have gotten really unlucky with your choice of headphones; I've used at least a couple dozen (mine and other peoples') over the years and never once seen that.

Pretty simple why it is gone

[p51d007]

$$$$$$$ They want you to purchase overpriced BT headsets. They want to make them more "water proof" They want to use the room for larger batteries LOL They want to reduce the cost by eliminating the jack. LOL It's pretty simple, they take something away, call it a "feature" then jack up the price. Personally, I haven't used the headphone jack on my phone ever, so I don't miss it. I'm older, almost 60, and grew up without an ipod, walkman or anything shoved into my ears all the time.

Re: I don't. . You don't have to pair it again..

[UncleTogie]

In the Apple eco system

If you're OK with limiting yourself to the Apple systems, maybe... but if you try, for example, to pair those Apple earbuds to an Android device, you have to go through the whole routine.

Forget that, I'll take plug-n-play any day.

Filter your searches for phones

[KaLeVR1]

When I look for phones, I always use the filters and I exclude phones that don't have the 3.5 jack. You can follow like a lemmings if you want but headphone jacks haven't disappeared for people who won't buy a phone without one. I don't even see phones that don't have one so as far as I'm concerned, they all still have them.

Re:Seriously?

[hcs_$reboot]

Or... (s)he purchased the no-jack phone to, then, realize how important it is to hum (her).

Re: Seriously?

[hcs_$reboot]

Yes, but does that USB drive make that unforgettable tick-tick-tick sound when you use it?

Re: Seriously?

[hcs_$reboot]

Oh you always have one file per drive?

Re: Seriously?

[tepples]

Oh you always have one file per drive?

By "file" I meant a file or a related set of files.

It's still beside my point though. If you're giving a person a copy of one file or a related set of files, and it is small enough to fit on a cheap medium such as a floppy or a CD, and you don't expect to see the medium returned to you afterward, a more expensive medium is a waste of money.

Re:Slob

[rally2xs]

I don't have to charge my Radio Shack AM/FM headphones with the 6' audio cable to my phone, 'cuz the phone powers them directly. That's what I'm talking about - just plug it in, and if the phone has power, then so do the headphones. F progress... some things are not better just 'cuz they're newer...

You miss them but still support the industry?

[fygment]

Why persist in buying phones without the plug?
As with the climate, either you're doing something about it or you are part of the problem.
And whining isn't 'doing something'.

Re:Seriously?

[coolsnowmen]

I know they aren't common, but they do exist. https://www.newegg.com/Product...

Re:Seriously?

[sconeu]

Not protection from data loss, but protection from infection.

The old saw: "Practice safe computing... always wear a write protect tab".

I don't miss it, not for a single second

[unicorn]

About 5 years ago I switched from corded headphones to bluetooth when in the first week of a gym membership I destroyed 2 headphone cords by getting them caught on equipment.

I would never look back now. BT is by far a better solution.