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Windows 10 Will Reserve 7GB of Your Computer's Storage in its Next Major Release So That Big Updates Don't Fail (zdnet.com)
In the next major release of Windows 10, Microsoft will reserve 7GB of your device's storage to resolve a Windows 10 bug thrown up by Windows Update not checking whether a PC has enough storage space before launching after big updates. From a report: As Microsoft warned ahead of the Windows 10 October 2018 Update, systems that don't have enough space to install Microsoft's 'quality updates' or new versions of the OS will see an error message explaining there is insufficient storage space. That happens because Windows doesn't check if a device has enough space before initializing. Microsoft's current solution is for users to manually delete unnecessary temporary files and temporarily move important files like photos and videos to external storage devices to make enough space for the update. This problem is more acute for devices with little storage capacity, such as many of the cheap 32GB flash-drive PCs on the market today.
Because none of my computers run Windows 10. If you aren't running Linux in 2019, you aren't paying attention.
The computer world, even at a multi-billion dollar company, is still the domain of DIY hacks.
That's why this is news at all.
by manually ensuring that you don't have that 'required space' ?
I bet there will be nag dialogs endlessly until you 'let them' do an update to your system.
man, I hate win10. we are forced to use it at work but thankfully I can do 99% of my daily stuff with linux. those who must use win10 - I feel sorry for you. its not a fun experience having to be the 'operator' of a computer you don't really own anymore..
--
"It is now safe to switch off your computer."
I fixed this issue over a year ago by putting Debian in Windows place. Windows update hasn't been an issue yet,
I assume that TFA is discussing the Compute-Stick style of PC, but there are a huge number of inexpensive 32GB laptops and other entry-level PC's out there. One way or another these huge WIndows updates are a problem for low-end machines.
for anybody.
Great news to start the year.
politicians are like babies' nappies: they should both be changed regularly and for the same reasons
I would rather they waste 7GB upfront than waste the bandwidth downloading updates, rather than the current model of don't check, get updates, crash halfway through installing because out of space, then rollback the update, then download it again, etc.
One poor woman I helped - her Win10 netbook was attempting to install the Fall update everytime she turned it off or on - only to fail, roll back, and then try it again on the next boot cycle.
As a computer enthusiast since the DOS days, I so much hate Microsoft's Windows 10 philosophy. Every move they make is one where Microsoft attempts to chip away at a user's ownership of his or her computer. Microsoft creates a new problem by taking away a user setting - like deciding exactly when he or she has the time to update the computer or their work is sufficiently at a stopping point to risk an update. In doing so, Microsoft introduces a whole host of new issues such as temporarily bricking users' devices, rebooting in the middle of their work, running the hard disk full, or causing updates to run when a user really needs to get out of the office. Then, in order to fix the problem they created, they take more control away from the user and allocate unusable user space just for Microsoft to have extra space for more bloated updates.
The paranoid part of me doesn't believe Microsoft is doing this to fix the update problem at all. Instead, they're allocating 'hidden space' on the drive to capture user sensitive data and store it for later uploads to Microsoft when the laptop/desktop is connected to the Internet.
--- We need more Ron Paul!
This is a perfect example of why I have been ms-free since July 4th, 2018, and a big shout-out to Ubuntu for helping me be ms-free.
If a company as big as ms can't check for free space prior to an o.s. update, they don't deserve to be in the business of providing operating systems.
Circle the wagons and fire inward. Entropy increases without bounds.
finally a way to stop the automatic windows updates?
This is the service guys "Windows as a service" where YOU will have to do things just so you can turn the computer on.
I'll stick to linux, where it is still a tool to use, and does not require me to maintain it if I do not want to (see windows forced updates).
Really /really/ looking forward to this getting even worse for windows users and people finally waking up and migrating to a BSD or linux of their choice that actually lets them /use/ their computers without being ass-raped with trojans or a plethora of security flaws.
With SSD's being around $100 for a samsung 256gb drive, i doubt anyone is deploying less than 128 these days.
Who the hell would ship a computer with a 32gb ssd? windows itself needs that much to even install! much less run. 128gb has been too small for a few years now!
There are also some tricks you can use to free up space. One i learned recently will clean up the stupid windows installer directory pretty well. i personally freed up 40gb on my work machine.
Download the windows installer cleanup utility, then run MSIZAP.exe G! to clean the directory
If you get an error, delete all the registry keys under:
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Installer\UserData
reference: http://wyang0.blogspot.com/201...
As a potential lottery winner, I totally support tax cuts for the wealthy
Most of these cramped storage devices, can handle SD cards and most of them are intended to be used with cloud storage.
I have one of those: a eMMC based Chinese el-cheapo tablet. (Chuwi Hi10 Plus) Technically it has 64GB eMMC, IIRC, but it also has an android partition and many other partitions I don't really know what they do. The Win10 partition is something like 48GB. That said, eMMC based machines are so very slow, I would recommend never getting any. I heard more modern eMMC is better...
Ahhh...the great dumpster continuum. Many a free computer will be found there. -- sowth (748135)
A way to prevent automatic updates.
Or will it be something that the consumer "finds out" after starting to use Windows 10?
Nothing is more critical than keeping mega corporations from taking your data and spying on you.
Laptop and detachable computers sold in big box stores tend to come with one of three operating systems: Windows (which spies on its users), Chrome OS (which spies on its users), and Android with Google Play (which spies on its users). Though some can be coaxed to run third-party replacement operating systems, they aren't warranted to do so. In fact, many models have severe problems with broken or missing drivers when running anything but Windows (such as the ASUS Transformer Book T100TA, as reviewed by a Debian volunteer). Which is the least of three evils?
Or does Apple deserve a monopoly?
Which would be funny and ironic, except for the fact that is was never actually said, so you are just a moron repeating something that never existed.
This and "telemetry" uploads to MS are the things keeping me away from Windows 10. As one AC posted, there are several watchdog processes that keep the whole update mechanism functional. Has anyone had luck with blocking updates with firewall rules?
Of course!
Best keep my computer full so the update fails then
Wanna buy a shirt?
https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
Like hiberfil.sys or empty the browser cache. If you can't find 7GB, you are doing it wrong.
Obviously, there's plenty of Windows 10 hate to go around, especially here on Slashdot.
But given the constantly decreasing price of storage per megabyte (and faster read/write times for it!), it doesn't seem like a bad idea at all for the OS to simply reserve the amount it would take to do any OS upgrade, and keep it safe from being used up by other programs or user data.
Honestly, I bet millions of Window laptops are out there right now, with at LEAST this much storage space already partitioned off for some kind of OEM "recovery" partition that most people will never find worthwhile to use? HP, Dell and others love to configure their systems like that. But for people not knowledgeable enough to blow away the whole partition structure before doing a clean installation of Windows? A lot of them now have a machine running Windows 8 or 10, but with as much as 40GB or so wasted on some recovery partition that would bring them back to Windows 7 if they actually used it. In other cases, it would just restore the PC to its original state, full of useless crapware that was bundled with it, plus an OS that needs 50+ update patches to be re-downloaded to get it current again.
What spying bloat.
An OS that cannot even install from a DVD!
Any Linux these days will fit onto a 4G USB stick or a DVD.
If you scruch, and download extra packages, you can install a solid OS from a CD.
See subject: & all you said was you recommend my ware 100% & on Linux also - "but, But, BUT '/. doesn't delete posts'" (bs they don't).
APK
P.S.=> What makes me LAFF even harder/more is they say "you're a 'spammer'" & THEY + GOOGLE THE /. PAYMASTER WHO PULLS THEIR SILVER PUPPET STRINGS is the BIGGEST SPAMMER OF ALL TIME, lol... apk
So Window Update doesn't check the size of the update and make sure there is enough space before downloading and installing it, so instead of fixing Windows Update we will just reserve 7G (SEVEN Gig!?!?! I had a full OS, and all of Microsoft Office, and my other software on a 105MB hard drive back in the day - but I digress) which will only be used when there is a major update instead of JUST FIXING WINDOWS UPDATE.
It is simple math. I realize with dynamic updates you probaby can't make an exact prediction of the space needed for the rollback repository etc., but you can know the actual update file sizes, and you can make a conservative guess on the in-process size, just check, if there isn't enough space don't even do the download. Nag the user about it all you want, just don't actualy start the process until you have room.
And if they actually need 7G now, what happens next year when the updates are bigger?
It's funny, I am sick of MacOS as they continue to de-Unix and get in my way with every update, so I am switching, but for some reason I never even considered switching to Windows.
"Proximity to wonder has blunted our perception and appreciation of it" --Tim Hartnell in 'Exploring ARTIFICIAL INTELLI
EOM
I worked for Microsoft. Decades ago, we knew how to calculate disk space! Guess they're not keeping their best and brightest any more.
Which makes sense -- they want conformity. At least when I was there, they wanted "well-rounded" people rather than specialization. Again, what losers.
M$ BAD! I didn't RTFA or RTFS, BUT, BAD M$ BAD!! Now to wait and get +5 insightful!!
I can run a FULL linux distro, with space to spare, in 7Gb. I feel like MSFT should be including some free hardware with the purchase of Windows 10. A 1TB drive is only 54.00 or so, perhaps they can include 1. This would make Windows 10 have some value. Right now, I just can't see my storage being used for MSFTs benefit, without any benfit to me.
95 Floppy Disks would store less than a quarter of a Gig.
sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
Learn to clean up your own shit, and stop fucking pretending it's your fucking computer.
We have this problem at work .... the crap in C:\windows keeps growing, because every patch and update you install leaves its shit in there in case it is needed to uninstall it.
As a consequence, the C drive grows endlessly and is difficult to clean out. This is a problem when you have a bunch of VMs and have only allocated so much to the C drive, but over time MS decide they want all the space.
If I ever run Windows 10, it will be 100% VM, and very restricted in terms of what it can do and access ... like possibly no network access because I no longer trust MS with their telemetry bullshit.
Microsoft is just making their shit worse these days, which is kind of bizarre because through Win 7 they were getting better, and Win 8.1 with Classic Shell is a fine OS -- it's just their interface for morons was useless because a tablet interface is a shit interface for a desktop OS.
But as soon as Microsoft said they were adding telemetry, saying you didn't get a choice about updates, and then adding ads to the fucking OS ... Windows 10 is dead to me.
Windows 10 works great, in a virtualized environment. That way, it can't delete my critical files, because it can't access them.
I decide when it needs network access.
I decide what files/drives it sees.
I decide what, and if it gets updates.
In other words, I control the computer.
Windows actually works BETTER in a virtualized environment, because Windows drivers are generally crap, but when given simple hardware to work with, Windows actually performs quite well. It's the more advanced hardware that Windows has problems with, since their programmers don't have enough experience to work with hardware directly.
if given simple hardware abstractions, windows can work decently.
I remember when software had the ability to check for needed disk space before installing. Amazing to me that Microsoft of all companies can't figure out how to do that anymore and has to take a sledge hammer to something a fly swatter can do.
Like the last time I needed to make a change to MS Office: I wanted to install a Czech language pack for MS Word. This should be a few MB worth of dictionary and hyphenation info. The Office installer proceeds to remove my entire MS Office installation, redownload 500 MB and reinstall the entire fucking Office suite. IIRC it nuked all my preferences too.
The icing on the cake was that it replaced the Start menu shortcuts for all Office programs with new versions in Czech, even though my system language is set to English.
due to the sheer number of viruses and spyware on it that will stop those updates....
Seriously, I don't think it's possible to run a modern OS connected to the Internet without regular security updates.
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
another is that most people don't like computers. Computers are tools to them. They hold the same feelings towards a computer that most techies hold to a spanner wrench. Less so, really, since your spanner wrench doesn't break all the time due to complex maintenance requirements.
Microsoft isn't likely to hide data mining. Again, most people don't care about privacy. They've got bigger problems in their lives, like paying rent, getting healthcare or figuring out how to save enough for college. And you know what, they're right. Privacy violations aren't the principle tool used to control and oppress people, as others have long since noticed
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
Because none of my computers run Windows 10. If you aren't running Linux in 2019, you aren't paying attention.
Really? Or maybe it's that linux literally doesn't have critical software I need to do my job nor any suitable substitutes. I'm an accountant and an engineer. (not as weird a combo as it sounds) There literally is no functional equivalent to even something as basic as QuickBooks on linux. Never mind our MRP software, CAD software, various other engineering software and other tools that are indispensable to our work. Even when there are substitutes they generally are crap.
Believe me I'd switch to linux in a heartbeat if it were actually practical to do so but it isn't and very likely won't be any time soon in my day job. Works great for some of our servers though. At work we run Windows 10 for our desktops and while it has its warts, it gets the job done. Don't love it but linux desktop options aren't making me swoon with envy unfortunately.
For example, Windows 7 ran OK on a regular hard drive. Windows 10 -needs- a SSD to be able to function.
Don't know where you got this made up fact. I'm typing this on a PC that has Windows 10 and does not have an SSD and it runs just fine. (well... as fine as Windows ever runs)
The minimum size has grown as well, where W10 pretty much needs 120+ gigs of space with all the Market and user installed shoverware, and that's before adding relevant apps.
More bullshit. I'll agree it's pretty bloated but it demonstrably does not require that much space. If you have that much shovel-ware installed, switch PC vendors. On the machine I'm running right now Windows takes about 45GB of space. You can argue that's still too much and I'd probably agree with you but it's 1/3 of what you are claiming.
If you want to bash Windows there are plenty of opportunities that do not require making up nonsense.
There's probably more glue than aluminium if you are running a recent mac.
a whopping 70GB of storage is lost "just in case MS needs it"? f*** you!
I just said that his not having SolidWorks on Linux is a personal problem. 99.999% of people don't need Solidworks (whatever that is).
Say 99.999 percent of people don't need each particular application that is incompatible with GNU/Linux. This means 0.001 percent of people do need each such application. If there are 10,000 such applications whose user bases don't overlap much, then roughly 10 percent of people will need at least one such application. More likely than not, eventually you, a family member, a friend, or a co-worker will experience such a personal problem and expect you to help solve it.
Have you used Windows in the enterprise with tools like SCCM, or WDS/MDT? No, your home playground doesn't count. For deployment purposes, you need a larger HDD capacity for the enterprise edition and patches, or else it just won't install, or it will hang up come 1809, 1903, or whenever the next major update slams everyone, and you now have to either remote in via EnterPSSession and figure out what the hangup is, or have a tech go up to the machine with a USB flash drive and kick the update from there.
Swapfiles also come to mind. If a user runs out of memory, Windows is going to start hitting the disk, and if disk capacity is paltry, the machine crashes, and IT gets called out.
Similar with SSDs. Yes, you can click on Excel, go have coffee, come back, but for every millisecond apps are fighting the OS for the hard drive head add up to lost productivity. A SSD gets rid of this. For home use, that 5400 RPM hard drive may be OK. However, for the enterprise, user productivity is a thing, and the time saved by a SSD adds up.
Or you're tied to Microsoft OS's because you need a mission critical application. [...] There's also still a lot of small business that just can't operate without Windows.
Let's say you work in an industry that requires use of an application or operating system that spies on you all the time. An extremist might claim that such industries ought to cease to exist, and affected workers ought to retrain to work in a different industry with a different "mission". For example, bingoUV has recommended that someone become a meat butcher.
But I sincerely doubt that this is practical for most.
I file my taxes using TurboTax.
And for the last two years, I filed my individual tax return using Credit Karma's web application, which is cheaper than TurboTax or H&R Block and works on Mozilla Firefox for Xubuntu. I plan to use Credit Karma again this year.
I don't serve you.
Don't recall claiming you did but you do serve up a lot of bullshit here on slashdot. Still can't tell if you are a troll or an idiot but I'm favoring both.
Have fun with your spyware.
Windows 10 "spying" on me is pretty far down my list of concerns when it comes to shady companies watching my activities.
Linux is the answer? I earn my living as an engineer with tools that only run under Windows. Linux runs fine in a VM when I need it but Windows 7 at work and 10 on my own Surface Pro 3 have worked flawlessly for years. And the SP3's 128GB SSD still has plenty of room with a full Win10Pro and a pile of engineering tool sets and both Linux and WinXP VMs. Nary a problem in the four years I've had it.
I understand Win10 drives many people to distraction. But it continues to work very well for many folks, myself included. Having pushed PCs hard since I built one from scratch in 1977, I've experienced the problems but enjoy the benefits. There's no need for excessive rage or territoriality, though. Don't like Microsoft? Don't use their products - and I wish you all happiness.
I'm typing this on a PC that has Windows 10 and does not have an SSD and it runs just fine. (well... as fine as Windows ever runs)
To summarize, you say "Windows runs fine without an SSD!", but then in parentheses you say "Windows doesn't run fine at all!". OK.
If you have that much shovel-ware installed, switch PC vendors.
Except, it's not the PC vendor, it's the OS vendor. Win10 installs the "store" and a huge mountain of useless shite nobody asked for. It even does it on enterprise installs.
MacOS hardware kills it (if only apple where open) to more hardware and nvidia.
apple is pissing off the pro users when are willing to Drop $5-10K on a high end workstation. HP-Z is killing it.
Software bloat is the biggest problem in IT. Windows should not be anywhere near 7GB IN TOTAL not just for am update.
640K ought to be enough for anybody?
Corporatism != Free Market
They routinely run out of space due mostly to just Windows files. I see it happen often. I have to routinely use Disk Cleanup on my 120 GB machine for the same reason.
They used to be pretty excellent - not nearly as excellent as the substantial price premium would suggest, but still really well-made hardware and a well-polished OS. If you could afford it, and didn't need any Windows-only software, then they made for an arguably great deal.
Heck, I've got one of the last MacBooks with a DVD drive, admittedly running Linux because I'm not fond of MacOS, but it's a really nice piece of hardware nonetheless. However, the recent ever-diminishing capabilities of their new computers, combined with the user-hostile anti-upgrade policies like soldered-in RAM is unforgivable.
--- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
How will this affect wiping free disk space with Eraser or BleachBit?
Apart from the OS debates of this over that, I use Windows 10 for ease of use in the areas that I like. Like recording and using Photoshop (much preferred over the Gimp). People, at least in the Windows world don't understand often that updating an operating system is more important than the level that they are bothered by it. If this gets the updates onto the disk, and gets them on people's machines easier, good for MS.
So those 32Gb storage devices won't have much storage after the OS, all the bloatware, and 7Gb reserve. Even a 64 bit SSD would be a stretch. Actually Microsoft should be embarrassed to allow such crippled devices to be marketed all for the sake of having a Chromebook killer. Besides none of those crippled machine have any ability to upgrade capacity other then a SD Card.
The first assumption is that this is going to help them on their CDN - when rolling out patches, the Win10 device may be configured to download from other PC's, which in theory may ensure the patch distribution is performed by the users on their bandwidth rather than on a more centralized solution.
The second assumption that is as soon as you grant network access, power, graphical and memory processing capabilities on top of a reserved 7GB of disk space per Windows 10 install, (considering there's at least 700m copies sold as of Oct 2018 ), that would give them what.. 5 Petabytes of free storage? That's one powerful 'cloud' you got there...
Mozilla products don't check for it either (see what happens if you try and save a file on a disk that is out of disk space... this has been a problem since the firefox 1.5 or 3.0 days!
Furthermore, while I can't remember specifics, many other windows/linux apps and tools don't respond well to out of disk situations, choosing to silently fail, sometimes even on writing configuration data or user data rather than pop up a warning that disk space is not available for the size of file being saved.
Personally I would like to see more applications required to have framework testing of these situations and prominent proof they have them resolved. This was a solved problem in any non-amateur application in the DOS days, nevermind Windows 3.1/Windows 9x. There is no excuse for it making a resurgence in this day and age.
You have described why I abandoned Linux after a decade of using nothing else on my personal systems. You left out one step: Run a routine software update and find the update broke two things.
I refurbish a lot of laptops. And a trend I've noticed in the sub-laptop models, the super tiny tablet-PC combo deals, is they typically have VERY tiny internal storage. I've seen them range from 16 to 32 GB typically. Oddly, 24GB seems to be a sort of standard I've seen on many of these 'all-in-one' near-SOC based devices.
This is not enough space for the operating system and spare space desired (7GB.) In typical contemporary fashion, instead of ensuring these older devices continue to work, break them all so people will buy new ones. Many of these devices are all-in-one near-SOC, with soldered on RAM and storage right to the mobo. You cannot upgrade these devices.
This irresponsible use of resources simply cannot go on. We will face shortages eventually. A different mindset needs to be adopted and quickly. Having software decisions break hardware needlessly is... stupid to say the least. And irresponsible. Where are the so called millennials who care about sustainability? I've heard a lot of talk, but seen very little of the walk.
Why not just have Windows wipe its arse from time to time and get rid of its digital hoarding?
With only one more year of Windows 7 support, my wife and I are getting nervous. I can probably shift over to Linux on the desktop full time and ideally turn my current windows 7 install into a vm file. I read a howto guide on using vmware to do just that, so I'll have to try that out sometime this year. I figure I can play my older windows only games and editors in a vm setup. I already use linux as a server so I'm no stranger to linux, just never took the full time dive.
The wife on the other hand already can't stand Win10 at work so she doesn't want it at home. She's not an Apple fan but she does use numerous windows only applications for photo editing and not running those apps is not an option.
I'm debating about upgrading her Win7 computer to Win8 to give us another 3 years of updates. Does this sound like a good idea? Is upgrading to Win8 as a stopgap better then just going to Win10, or should I just bite the bullet?
Been running unupdated Windows 8.1 and Vista before that for over a decade without a single infection (and I scan regularly). Fuck off with your scaremongering.
Assuming you're just a home user and don't have other risk factors, aggressive ad/script blocking and some basic responsibility and common sense while using the internet are 99.999% effective.
I am APK the great "LORD of HOSTS", a.k.a. AlecStaar from ArsTechnica or Alexander Peter Kowalski.
When people state the truth about me I get really mad and accuse them of projecting which is something I do all the time.
Don't call me out on anything unless you are willing to prove you too can write some strings to a file programmatically
All of my accomplishments revolve around me being proven to be an annoying spamming asshole
See me be proud of my inability to be a functional adult
Bask in my debilitating mental illness
Don't call me out on anything as I will state that you are a webmaster and that I cut off your revenue stream.
Watch as I claim I am world class and a winner but in reality I am a fucking loser.
Witness my descent into madness
APK
If the "best ya got"'s IMPERSONATING me & projecting your own personal faults onto me & failing? Then you do your usual & fail.
* It's all "your kind" KNOWS how to do (lose)...
APK
P.S.=> You WISH you were ME... apk
should be cause i run a 'fully' (includes libre, gimp, firefox etc. the lot) installed linux xfce mint desktop here under 10G. so you can park a whole OS in 7G if you realy wanted, with room to manouvre. yet for win 10 UPDATES they reserve 7G? something is fishy for sure if the excuse is the truth: we can't check free disk space before update.
See subject & since you're on Linux "I personally use a HOSTS file blocker produced from a genius called APK" by 110010001000 October 27 2017 & the Linux version of it (better vs. Windows one you tried BY FAR on many levels) APK Hosts File Engine 2.0++ 64-bit for Linux h t t p : / / a p k . i t - m a t e . c o . u k / A P K H o s t s F i l e E n g i n e F o r L i n u x . z i p (remove spaces between chars & download) ?
APK
P.S.=> Only 1 of its kind in Linux in GUI form (does more vs. others like it by far & a better job/result because of that) ... apk
...and where, may I ask, have you find those specs with hard numbers?
the only computer I have loaded with the windows crap is at work. Using Linux on all my other computers. So now they come up with more reasons for corporations to spend more money so they get rid of more employees.
Good job microsoft. I haven't gave them any money since windows 95.