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Even better would be to ferry the cars along those rails so you can drive as needed once you reach your destination. Paying for the train then having to rent a car because your final destination is too far from the stations is silly, and that's one reason many people just drive the whole way.

Exactly! Unless and until the urban cores of places that the train stops can support not having a car to get around, this seems like a perfect solution.

Amtrak actually has one route that works this way: the Auto Train. It only works between the DC area and Orlando, non-stop, but for about a hundred bucks one-way you save yourself the cost of a plane fare plus a rental car, not to mention the drive down I-95. And, as the Wikipedia article states, "The train grossed $49,351,664 in ticket revenue in Fiscal Year 2006, making it Amtrak's highest grossing single train. With total expenses of $62.1 million, it is Amtrak's best-paying long distance train in terms of income in comparison with operating expenses."

We already have a working, proven solution in the United States to make this happen. All we need to do now is expand it.

Well, since the GP was talking about NYC, there's a rail option that feeds the city from up to 90 miles out (to the north):
http://www.mta.info/mnr/html/mnrmap.htm

And on a northeast-southwest line, there's Acela:
http://www.amtrak.com/servlet/ContentServer?pagename=Amtrak/am2Route/Vertical_Route_Page&c=am2Route&cid=1080772074490&ssid=134

These might not be the most convenient options, and may be more expensive than a fuel-efficient car, but it looks to me like if you can't find public transport within a 100-mile radius of NYC, you're not trying very hard.

Wow. Could you not even be bothered to type "amtrak photo contest" into google? You didn't even have to go to the search results page. The I Feel Lucky button would have sufficed by taking you to this:

"Picture Our Train" 2009 Wall Calendar Photo Contest
http://www.amtrak.com/servlet/ContentServer?pagename=Amtrak/am2Copy/Hot_Deals_Page&c=am2Copy&cid=1093554057903&ssid=224

They've obviously been running the contest for several years, up to and including 2008. It's not a stretch to figure there is going to be another one in 2009 and he's photographing for it in advance

{sarcasm}It's nice to see that the Slashdot editors are on their A game with this one.{/sarcasm}

First, when visiting the Amtrak contest site http://www.amtrak.com/photocontest one will notice that the contest ended in July of 2008. Maybe they do run it every year. However, the contest has a definite cut off date. They do not say they are currently accepting submissions for the next years contest. SO this Photographer's claim that he was taking pictures for the contest was false. 5-months-after-closing-time false.

Second, the contest requirements call for pictures of Amtrak trains, that clearly show the Amtrak logo. The rules and the contest description are very specific on this. Amtrak even shows you what the logo you are taking pictures of should look like. I looked through this guys photos. I did not see one clean Amtrak logo in any of them. His use of that crazy lens just makes it worse, for that lens would surely destroy any potential clear capture of the logo he was supposed to have on film. So this photographer fails in what he was taking pictures of, since he was obviously not taking pictures of the TRAINS with the AMTRAK LOGO. He was taking pictures of people, and the station and of blurry trains that could have been New York Transit or whatnot.

You can't break the rules, then turn around and use those rules as a shield from prosecution. You can't ignore the rules, then throw a tantrum when you can't use those rules for protection.

Nowhere in his original account (http://www.duanek.name/Amtrak/index.htm) does he state that he was taking the pictures for the contest. It seems to be that the journalist chose to heavily emphasize the contest angle, perhaps to go for a more compelling story. Unfortunately, the journalist's choice to spin it as a case of the left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing, he missed the bigger picture. Photographers are increasingly faced with arbitrary restrictions and demands that are not based upon the law, but based on fear. Forums at places like dpreview.com and flickr are often abuzz with stories of cops making unreasonable demands.

The only way to counteract this is with knowledge. If you happen to like taking pictures of subjects in public spaces, http://www.krages.com/phoright.htm is an enlightening read. This link (http://www.kantor.com/blog/Legal-Rights-of-Photographers.pdf) says essentially the same thing, but lays it out with a real-world example.

Also, to the editors, perhaps having a link to the current version of the contest (http://www.amtrak.com/servlet/ContentServer?pagename=Amtrak/am2Copy/Hot_Deals_Page&c=am2Copy&cid=1093554057903&ssid=224) would be good. I was skeptical that they actually had continued running the contest until I found that.

http://www.amtrak.com/servlet/ContentServer?pagename=Amtrak/ContactUs

Not sure about trains referenced in the article, but Amtrak has a PDF with BTUs per passenger mile:

http://www.amtrak.com/pdf/Energy_Efficient_Travel.pdf

Amtrak reports 2005 energy use of 2,935 BTU per passenger-mile[33], or 39 passenger-miles per gallon (from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_efficiency_in_transportation#Trains)

And if we go to the source for that, we get:

The U.S. Department of Energy (DOE) has reported that Amtrak - on an energy consumed per passenger-mile basis - is 18 percent more energy efficient than commercial airlines. According to DOE's Transportation Energy Data Book, Amtrak energy intensity was 2,935 British Thermal Units (BTUs) per passenger-mile and commercial airlines were 3,587. Commuter rail was 2,751 and automobiles were 3,549 BTUs. The DOE figures are from calendar year 2003, the latest available.

Take Amtrak?

Viva la Coast Starlate, one of the most delayed trains in the United States. If it's ever on time be very, very afraid, the apocalypse can't be far behind.

The policy is here. I am also an Amtrak commuter. They are less formal about this process than the airlines are, at this point, but the regulation now exists and I am regularly told that enforcement will get stricter.

BTW, I'm not saying that a hydrogen economy is a good idea. I am saying that if we were to try it, locomotives would be a better beneficiary than automobiles.

How about both? You drive your car to the train station, then drive and park it on a train car. On the trip between cities you ride in the passenger section then when you reach the destination you drive your car off the train. Amtrak's Auto Train does that but it only runs between Florida and Virginia.

Here is DEN to LAX one way adult. it varies in price but 135/152. And that is COACH (i.e. a day and half of traveling without a sleeper car; NO WAY). Via southwest for the short 2.5 hour flight; 108.

How are airlines subsidized? Everything that the fed "buys" them is straight out of the aviation tax. Worse, the amount that aviation receives is but a fraction of what is put in to it. About the ONLY subsidy was the 9/11 payoff that W and the pubs did. And that rated about the stupidest cash that America ever spent until iraq happened (if it was going to happen, then it should have been intelligent; offer to subsidize the domestic tickets for 90% on the first month, followed by 80% next month, etc; the idea is to get ppl flying again).

Unfortunately, it's probably only a matter of time. Since we don't have smoking sections anymore, how about a quiet section. Amtrak and the TGV have a quiet cars. Smoke travels almost as well as sound. And if noise really troubles you, pick up some noise-blocking headphones or just some earplugs. Just don't wind up like this guy

And yet, that hasn't stopped them.

When you're talking about the DHS, common sense is no barrier.

and ditched my car 7 years ago. I live in Boston across the street from a subway stop. There's another one a few hundred yards away, a third line 1 mile away and a fourth 1.3 miles away. I ride my bicycle year round for many trips 5 miles or less, and arrive faster than the subway or a car. Walking a mile is also no big deal, and I occasionally car pool if a neighbor and I are both headed to a meeting or event.

What about groceries? Smaller trips or deliveries. What about big purchases? If I ever needed one, I'd borrow a friend's car or sign on to zipcar. What about weekends in NYC? I take Acela or the bus. What about weekends in rural Vermont? I rent a car for $40 a day. The combined total of non-air travel for my wife and I: $2500/yr, and that includes a combined total of 5 months of time out of Boston. Can your car ownership costs -- insurance, gas, tires, lubes, car payment/depreciation, parking, tickets, tolls, taxes, and repairs match that?

Yeah, you can ditch your car. Doesn't mean you'll never have to borrow or rent one, but it does mean you'll likely save money, operate an auto for fewer miles per year, get a bit more exercise, have a chance to read a magazine or book while using transportation once in a while, and contribute to a higher quality of life for yourself and your community. Don't let the perfect [a completely car-free society] get in the way of the good [a society where the average miles driven per driver is under 5,000, or even less].

i think you're talking about the pacific surfliner line. i catch it at irvine (though there are many other OC stops) and it drops me off at sante fe station. trolley is right there, if that's your thing. i get picked up by SD friends when i get there. $18 each way.

Uh, they DO have just such a service, it's called Acela Express and it links Boston - New York - Philadelphia - Washington, DC at speeds up to 150MPH. You can go from Penn to Union in as little as 2:45. The next step should be to upgrade the lines along the Capitol Limited line which links Washington DC to Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Chicago. See this link for the Accela route and this link for all of Amtrack's NE/midwest routes.

Uh, they DO have just such a service, it's called Acela Express and it links Boston - New York - Philadelphia - Washington, DC at speeds up to 150MPH. You can go from Penn to Union in as little as 2:45. The next step should be to upgrade the lines along the Capitol Limited line which links Washington DC to Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Chicago. See this link for the Accela route and this link for all of Amtrack's NE/midwest routes.

I would have bought a jammer long ago had Amtrak not established quiet cars where cell phone usage is forbidden (hell, even load talking is taboo).

About three days with one or two layovers.

Also keep in mind that currently it takes at least 22 hours by train. In actuality it's probably closer to 24 because of delays.

No airlines will go under as a result. The CEOs of these airlines will give themselves a big, fat raise, fire pilots, ticket agents and flight attendants, then whine to the Fed that they're out of money and going to go under if they don't float them another $30 billion or so.

Boycott American aviation. It's a racket and a ripoff. Do what the big neon sign over downtown Portland tells you instead: Go By Train. Yeah, it takes longer, but it's cheaper, more comfortable (even in coach), more convenient and more fun than flying. I made the switch to rail years ago...I'll never fly again (except possibly overseas, and then from Canada through a non-US airline to avoid falling into the whole aviation racket again...)

What a euro-centric point of view. Try living in a country where most air travel is more than 2500 miles per trip. In the US, a Los Angeles to New York train journey takes 36 hours: http://tickets.amtrak.com/itd/amtrak/FareFinder?_t ripType=OneWay&_origin=LAX&_depmonthyear=2006-09&_ depday=04&_dephourmin=&_destination=NYP&_retmonthy ear=&_retday=&_rethourmin=&_adults=1&_children=0&_ infants=0&_searchBy=schedule&x=18&y=12

Even if we installed the latest in high speed trains the journey would still take at least 19 hours. Having wifi wouldn't make that trip better than a 4.5 hour flight. I have wifi in my hotel.

Amtrak Quiet Cars

At least Amtrak gets this right.

Further study by Y-Crate Heavy Industries indicates that: "...devices like cell phones will, in all likelihood, someday cause an accident by pissing off the other passengers to the point where in-air rioting occurs."

Amtrak's Quiet Car is a success for a reason. People are increasingly irritated by rude cellphone users to the point where I've seen encounters between passengers on trains prompted by someone refusing to exchange their "cellphone voice" for their "indoor voice". It is also the reason why I, and a lot of people I know, refuse to go to the movies anymore. The rude minority is being catered to, while the rest of us are expected to suck it up because for some reason, management is more afraid of losing the rude cellphone user as a customer, rather then the 10 people ready to smash their phone to bits, demand a refund and never come back.

This is why Amtrak's "Auto Train" could be such a success. It solves the problem you point out, and it's more likely to gain support amongst the car-centric members of the public. I think a high-speed rail system that offered this service would have an excellent chance at success.

1) The stupidity (psychology) of the average American citizen (SUV driver).

This is only an argument against local mass transit systems. Absolutely not the case for the intercity trains. Most people hate driving from DC to Boston, and if the trains were a bit faster and did not have a reputation of being slow, all of them would start using the train.

Only idiots, and large group travellers will take an SUV, since then it becomes cheaper. But even then it is not the case, as amtrak frequently has large group promotions such as this one where you can get 90% off for third, fourth, fifth and sixth persons in the NE corridor (except peak weekend travel times). Too bad most people do not know about these.

• KeepDemBussesRollin (passing a state DOT building)
• Don't mooch off my shit
• testing-testing-testing

It was also common to use what looked like a business name or the a person's first name ("lisa") as the SSID. Some AP's had random alphanumerics or what was obviously an attempt at a password for the SSID.

I also did a very basic analysis of some of the interesting things I discovered, such as...

• Most AP's were advertising 11Mbit speed but about 16% advertised higher speeds. I'm not sure if the higher speeds were "a" networks, "g" networks or both. My laptop had an a/b wireless card.

• 1/3 of the AP's detected were using what was obviously their vendor's default SSID (i.e. "Linksys" "default" "NETGEAR")

• >60% of all AP's detected were not running WEP of any kind, but more than half of the Cisco AP's had WEP enabled (probably because end-users generally don't run Cisco stuff).

• Vendor breakdown (no they don't add up to 100%)
  • Linksys 38%
  • Cisco 17%
  • NetGear 11%
  • D-Link 6%
  • Symbol 4%
  • Apple 2%
  • Microsoft 2%
  • Proxim/Agere/Orinoco 2%
  • Belkin 1.5%
  • BreezeNet 1.5%
  • ... and a bunch of others that only appeared once or twice like Addtron, Sercomm,Gemtek, Z-Com, etc.

The sample size for this was about 250 AP's during the outbound trip. On the return trip I ran NetStumbler for a lerger portion of the ride and recorded over 1000 AP's (some of which were duplicates of course) but I haven't taken the time to anlyze this larger data set yet.

I didn't try to connect to any of the AP's... most of them would come and go within a few seconds anyway. :)

Amtrak has a Quiet Car on many trains.

No, look here

The idea of an autotrain is that you drive your normal, every day car to the train, and put it on the train. You then go forward, sit in a nice comfy seat with 110V available, and ride to your destination. You then get off the train, reclaim your car, and go on your merry way.

The problem is that right now, the Autotrains are only on the east coast, and are running over shared rails (thus they cannot get moving much faster than 100MPH).

The point I am making is that rather than trying to get everybody to upgrade their cars, AND building a dedicated lane for the upgraded cars, AND trying to keep morons out of the dedicated lane with their not-yet-updated cars, you build a rail bed and a smaller number of trains.

That would be 1/1 "scale."

When I used to own an R/C racetrack people would automatically assume I meant model trains when I answered their question as to what my wife did because of the context in which they asked the question.

I always found their expressions rather amusing when I corrected this misapprehension. All 5'4" (she'd be upset if I didn't mention "and a quarter")/163 cm (and nearly a quarter)of her didn't exactly fit their notion of what a welder should look like. Guess who always gets sent to do work inside fuel tanks?

She's gotten to drive one of these, albeit only out of the final assembly shed into the yard. I'm still envious, but hey, she built it and I didn't:

Acelae Express

KFG

... or by bus or train, entirely anonymously.

Amtrak, our national railway system, requires ID to ride the train: http://www.amtrak.com/idrequire.html.

On some parts of the Amtrak system passengers may board without ID. Ticket purchases onboard require ID. Tickets can be purchased by credit card without ID... but tickets purchased with cash require ID.

Amtrak's Auto Train from the D.C. suburbs to near Orlando does something kinda like your idea, but it goes for a longer distance, overnight, and you have your choice of nice comfy seats or sleeping cars, plus dining cars, lounges, movies and stuff like that, instead of sitting in your car the whole time. They've been running it for oh, twenty plus years now.

I just took a flight to boston from Philadelphia. The entire trip from parking at philadelphia to landing at boston took close to 3 hrs. It's probably 6 hours drive to boston. I'm not really saving much time here. Fortunately my company paid for it, but it was amazingly expensive because it was booked last minute for a customer.

Now, add in the time it took you to drive to the Philly airport. After landing in Boston, add the time to collect your baggage, rent a car, and drive to your customer's site. I'll bet it was even closer to 6 hours.

My cutoff for the fly/drive decision is 6 hours. If I can drive it in 6 hours or less, I don't fly, because it doesn't save any time.

Also, employers will reimburse you for business use of a personal vehicle. The reimbursement is always less than airline tickets and/or rental cars, and the money goes into your pocket. A win for everyone.

BTW, Amtrak runs between Philly and Bean Town. It's a 5 hour ride. It's not a 300MPH mag-lev, but still worth a look.

Incidentally, you might be interested in reading AMTRAK'S VISION FOR AMERICA'S HIGH-SPEED RAIL PROGRAM.

There is the Acela line between DC and Boston. Aside from the Acela, Amtrak does service most metropolitan areas, but they simply cannot beat air fare for long trips. Also they are plagued with delays. Their fleet is aging, and they no longer own most of the track they run on. Aside from delays, the train ride can be a pleasant alternative to the security lines and often cheaper than air.

I've seen a few layouts done that are supposed to recreate actual rail lines and I've always been puzzled by one thing. Given the geography of the room where someone sets up their layout and also the necesity of accessing the layout (if only to observe the fruits of all that hard work), I've always presumed such layouts are not attempts to faithfully duplicate the layout of the rail line but to represent the scenery through which a traveler would pass. That is, there's no attempt to duplicate or scale "Then this spur goes east for 24 miles before it turns north for three more..." just do something like "and after we pass through the pine forest here near the bedroom door, we hit the town of Pidegeonville, which I placed next to the window..."

A silly question, but wanted to make sure I understood the "ground rules" of these recreations.

Personally, I never got past an oval under the Christmas tree and trying to scare the cat, although I did work as a waiter on the Southwest Chief one summer in college. I don't think most modelmakers would care to recreate the Leavenworth prison or the vagrant we ran over near L.A. Union Station, though.

Now if we could only convince the National Railroad Passenger Corporation of this...

You can do that today. Take the Southwest Chief to LA, then the Sunset Limited the rest of the way to Phoenix.

You can do that today. Take the Southwest Chief to LA, then the Sunset Limited the rest of the way to Phoenix.

You canif you're willing to take 1.5 times as long as Greyhound. And that's the scheduled time; Amtrak has not once ever been on time anywhere but Boston-New York-Washington (and even there, it's pretty unlikely).

For tomorrow's fares, Boston to NYC is $64 one way by Train, $123 by Air (cheapest American Airlines), both for Tomorrow at 9AM. So, Train still wins.

And if you need a subsidy example, it's called the SouthEastern Pennsylvania Transit Authority (SEPTA). They're really happy, because they've managed to reduce their 2004 operating deficit "from $54 million to a still-formidable $26 million" (link) (last year's budget was $875 million + a $55 million deficit).

Who pays for all of this? We do... One way or another, the entire nation is paying for this inefficient mess. From this article, the counties pay for 8%, states at 38%. Another report states that even though federal subsidies have dropped in the last 5 years, money is still indirectly funnelled from Federal to State to SEPTA ($800 mil given to PA from the fed last year, $40 mil is directly accountable to going to SEPTA), not counting the $2 billion that the Federal gov has already invested in rail & car refurbishments. Oh, and they've only been sucking our money since 1963... not quite 60 years, but pigging out the same.

Now, imagine if we privatized the deal, and actually forced them to make money on their own? Because by Bus (the 3rd method of mass transit, privatized), I can go from Boston to NY City tomorrow at 9AM for $30. At 215 miles at 20 mpg & $1.75/gal for gas, its $18 by car, the ultimate privatized driving method, and I guess thats why people like to drive themselves.

Amtrak has 2 types of service:

Wrong. They have another kind of service: Passenger rail to low population towns in the barren Republican-voting "Red States". Places that Greyhound is hardly willing to service because there are so few passengers (and all rural dwellers have cars anyhow). That is where the most really goes to.

The federal legislators from those backwoods know that passenger rail isn't needed there, but they don't care: shutting down the trains would be a sign of regression, and they don't want that. A Congressional vote to uphold Amtrak's prohibition against closing lines is a kind of pork that applies to the whole country- and as such, it will never be defeated.

The first is not profitable.

Wrong. If Amtrak was legally allowed to shutdown everything west of the Mississippi, leaving basically just the NEC operating, it would be equally as profitable as any airline.

The second is profitable. Because Amtrak charges ~$2k for a bed car and since they rent the rails from freight companies,

Beyond wrong. What decade do you live in, where the wealthy decide "I'll reserve a week in advance, spending $2000 and then 15 hours in a bunk, instead of buying a next-day $400 planeticket that'll land 3.5 hours after takeoff?"

Seriously, go to the Amtrak website and find one of these alledged $2k sleeper fares. They don't exist.

There is a similar pass offered by Amtrak and VIA Rail Canada that allows (nearly) unlimited rail travel in both countries for a month.

There is a similar pass offered by Amtrak and VIA Rail Canada that allows (nearly) unlimited rail travel in both countries for a month.

"the most important route to build would be NY->Pit->Det->Chg->Mil"

Build? We already have lines that go to those places (and most other major cities). Amtrak is waiting, they problem is that people don't use the service enough to expand the system.

"NY/Chg" "Chi->LA"

Hah! A quick search on Amtrak.com will show you that there are nonstop trains between those already.

I don't know enough about what Canada has to offer, so this is limited to the U.S.

When folks around here say they're "going backpacking" they usually mean they'll be hiking in the wildnerness with just what they can carry on their back. Such trips rarely include visits to bookstores, musea, and other geek centers. Such trips are best in mountainous areas -- I can't imagine backpacking in North Dakota, for instance -- and can be done on a pretty low daily budget (but make sure you invest in high quality boots, tents, etc.). Some folks have mentioned the Appalachian Trail, which spans from Vermont to Georgia. On the other side of the country are lots of swell backpacking areas from the Rocky Mountains west. The national parks in Utah and Arizona (Canyonlands, Staircase, Zion, Grand Canyon, etc.) are especially popular for such trips, though if you've spent much time in the outback you may be sick of such a climate (though the terrain here is more impressive). Almost any national park or national forest is a good backpacking experience, and entrance fees (especially if you get a year-long pass) are astonishingly cheap.

Unfortunately, you'll be arriving at the tail end of good backpacking season. Beginning in late September you can't trust in a lack of snow anywhere inland in the northern two thirds of the country, though places like southern Arizona are quite enjoyable. Unless you're staying until late next spring, you should hit any outdoor areas in the north first and work your way south.

Unfortunatey, U.S. public transportaion leaves much to be desired. There's nothing like a Eurail pass, and Amtrak stops mostly in larger cities, which is sad, because trains played such a large part in building America. Greyhound has excellent coverage and fairly reasonable rates, but if you're going to a lot of places, your pocketbook could take a big hit. Finally, hitchhiking across the country is probably no longer a viable plan, but it may be invaluable in a pinch. Hitchhikers are, generally, assumed to be dangerous until proven otherwise. On the plus side, most cities have a bus system decent enough for tourists to enjoy the town.

Unless you have access to a car, my advice is to pick a handfull of (relatively small) areas you want to visit and then figure out what all the great things to do there are.

Some geeky things in my neck of the woods (Boulder, Colorado): National Institute of Standards and Technology (home of the most accurate clock in this hemisphere) is right next to a branch of National Oceanographic and Atmospheric Association and a beautiful two-hour mountain hike away from the National Center for Atmospheric Research. They've all got free tours and such, though I haven't taken one since security got tightened after 9/11/01. About 10 miles south of town is the National Renewable Energy Laboratory and more beautiful mountain hike areas. 30 miles or so to the north west is Rocky Mountain National Park, which gets pretty cold in September and later. Denver, CO has Forney Museum of Tranportation and also the nation's only major airport built in the last 20 years, so it's full of neat engineering bits.

Your post sounds quite ambitious, and there's no way you can really experience all of what's neat in America in even a year, so find some of it and enjoy the hell out of that! Cheerio!

Here in the US, or rather, the northeast, Amtrak has also implemented Quiet Car service on most trains serving the Boston-NYC-DC Northeast Corridor. No cell phone use is permitted in the Quiet Car, usually the first coach class car from the front. I've ridden in the quiet car, and the rules are adhered to, which allowed me an extended period of calm, which I admit I used to sleep most of the way between Philadelphia and New York. An airplane, unfortunately, does not offer enough space or enough freedom for people to sort themselves into cell phone users and non-users. Chalk it up to the relative merits (and lack thereof) of the aeroplane as a means of travel.

Too late.

AmTrak
Of course, renting a car requires ID, and I was told by a friend that he was required to show ID to get a bus ticket on Greyhound. (R) Tom Delay was quoted as saying that he wants to make it so that in Texas, people don't feel that it's OK to be a democrat.

Weather it's the Taliban or Bush's government, a nazi is a nazi. The sad thing is how many people in the US willingly give up their freedom in the name of "War!" or "Patriotism". The founding fathers would weep.