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Cell Phones In The Air?
jumbledInTheHead writes "Are you ever annoyed when someone near you talks unnecessarily loud on their cell phone? Or even worse, when it is in a tight, enclosed space and you can't walk away? The problem is about to get worse the next time you take a flight; the FAA is considering removing the ban on cell phone use on airlines."
So they can let phones on planes - big deal. Exactly how is this different:
'some wanker talking loudly to the person next to them'
'some wanker talking loudly to a person on the phone'
That's right - there is stuff all difference. People use phones (rudely sometimes), but so what! If they are a loud, rude person then they will be loud and rude no matter what technology you limit them to.
I hardly ever use my mobile, but on a plane I imagine it would be really useful (Hi Honey - I'll be in late, or booking rooms or whatever)
You can't expect to wield supreme executive power, just because some watery tart threw a sword at you
It is to bad we can't make laws to stop people from being jerks. The idea that if it is legal then I can do it mentality, so a bunch of people see that it is legal then they abuse the law then they people get annoyed with them then they make it illegal so people cant do it even why it is appropriate. It is the same with NY and people with Cell Phones while driving they started talking and driving all the time getting into accidents so NY made it illegal to talk on a cell phone and drive at the same time. Now if people take to heart the warnings that they give they should be smart and reduce there cell phone usage or whatever is annoying people. If not just to not be a jerk but to make sure you right to do this activity when it is really needed is maintained.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
Isn't it really hard to get signal when you're flying? I'd imagine this would only be relevant near takeoff and landing.
[insert witty sig here]
Hmmm...
So I guess that air time rates will always apply?
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law - Aleister Crowley
No NYT reg warning?! No soul giving? No FRR?
Brutal punch-to-the-head incidents are expected to rise eleventy kajillion* percent.
* Margin of error +/- three kajillion.
I want to drag this out as long as possible. Bring me my protractor.
Divide up the seats into a cell phone and non-cell phone section. Kind of like a non-smoking and smoking section they have in restaurants.
I already wear earplugs on the train: they block the noise from the train itself quite effectively but don't muffle voices as effectively as I'd like. (I think they are designed to attenuate low frequencies.)
Has anyone seen earplugs designed specifically to block human voices as well as low-frequency noise?
Just ask them to step outside.
I really hope they're not doing this because of pressure or pay-offs from the phone companies, just like with the tabaco companies making sure your right to have matches and lighters on the plane isn't stopped no matter how dangerous they are. If they lift the phone ban, it better be because a fair and impartial safety study has cleared it.
This comment does not represent the views or opinions of the user.
Enjoy
It's not that hard to generate! When posting a story, if you don't want to be an idiot, go to this handy NYT Link Generator
Thanks.
This PSA brought to you by the CSLib Menace.
It might start in 2006.
They only have two people next to them on the plane to talk to, and if they are talking loudly, that's going to stop pretty quickly.
With a cell phone, they can talk loudly to anyone they can reach by phone.
So instead of maybe an hour before their seatmate gives them a hint that maybe it is time to shut up, they can conduct "business" in a loud voice for 8 hours straight (or as long as their battery lasts).
Long-distance air travel is already annoying enough, this is going to crank it up a notch!
A house divided against itself cannot stand.
Get your problem solvers right here.
I've got one mounted in my trunk. Works like a champ. Someone once told me I had no right to cancel out other people's radio communication. It's my airspace too.
Besides, I've always liked the vigilante thing.
REM Old programmers don't die. They just GOSUB without RETURN.
Still I'm saddened twinfold by those attacks. Not only did they kill a number of innocents, but they also made US Xenophobic to an extreme where they were willing to finance a war on an unrelated soverign nation for an vested interests of the rulers. People don't want war, but they can always be brought to the bidding of the rulers [warning: swastika]
Anyway, all that was offtopic - I still haven't recovered from Eminem's Mosh video yet.Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum videtur
with other people talking to their phones? Is it because you're nosey and so it pisses you off that you can't hear the other side of the conversation?
They better have those sky marshals in place before this happens, and on every flight - I see a significant rise in angry, overworked business travelers trying to get some sleep while supermom missy talks to her friend about how Lindsey Lohan's outfit on TRL last week was so great, and her kids are kicking you in the back.
That's all I'm saying.
Bose makes an amazing set of headphones that totally cancel almost all noise. You can listen to music, or a movie or whatever and not even hear the plane engine or anyone around you.
"Yeah, a shrink ray! Just like that time on Muppet Babies!"
Sorry. As long as babies, loud and/or smelly people are allowed near me, cell phones are lumped in that same group. Ban 'em all, or ban nothing.
Wheel in the sky keeps on turnin'.
If you thought Air Rage was bad before, letting people turn on cell phones will make it 10 times worse.
I guess because the moderator who moderated this parent message is allowed to give the message a toll he did without realizing that it wasn't a troll, or maybe he did and he is just a jerk. There is an other theory that the moderator is one of those jerks and felt that this message was directed at him and the idea could effect his life style thus marked it as a troll to prevent him from changing his jerkyness ways.
Given what an addiction handys are here in Austria, I'm really thinking of making some auf Deutsch.
Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.
You mean to say my Sony Ericsson Flight mode no longer makes sense ??.I want my money back.
fifteen jugglers, five believers
Actually I really hate being stuck somewhere and having to listen to someone going on and on about their personal business. It's as annoying as having to smell someones cigarette smoke or farts. Who wants to sit on a plane for hour after hour with the constant ring of random ring tones?
Sure, let's convince them to have their conversation... on the outside of the plane.
You're quite evil, joelethan.
Wheel in the sky keeps on turnin'.
So far, every time I was annoyed with people talking loudly on their cell phones, I just took the next flight to avoid them for a couple of blissful hours of soothing engine noise and luxurious meals. Now I can't even do that? How can it get any worse?
Divide up the seats into a cell phone and non-cell phone section. Kind of like a non-smoking and smoking section they have in restaurants.
True, but as there tends to be some smoke drifting into the non-smoking section there would likely be some noise spilling into the non-phone section. If there were a bulkhead between the two sections (with a heavy curtain over the doorway) this could work.
I want to drag this out as long as possible. Bring me my protractor.
I figure out that Cell phone jammers can not be made portable, right?
It would be extremely cool to make one and put it on your back pack!
The last time I looked at the mobile network structure I heard that cell phones on planes cause network problems (rapidly moving from one base station to another, broadcasting to multiple stations at one time and so on......
Tech aside IMO all people wanting to use phones should be put in a separate compartment (putting them in with baggadge or creating toilet like booths wouldnt be bad ["hey buddy - your 5 mins is up what are you doing - having sex in there or something? I'm bursting {to talk}]).........
I like the idea of Virgin Trains (UK) idea of "quiet zone" carridges where you can't talk on the mobile. I always use them if I have to do a cross county slog.....
The fine folks at Coudal http://www.coudal.com/ provide cards that you can hand to your neighbor blarring into his cell phone:
... about [ ] last night [ ] the game ... is very important to you, but we thought you'd like to know that it doesn't interest us in the least."
"Dear Cell Phone User, we are aware that your ongoing conversation with [ ] yer mother [ ] yer therapist
I have aleady printed my bunch of cards and started handing them out. Reactions are quite positive.
At the beginning was at.
You'll have to excuse my naivete, but wouldn't this be just for takeoff and landing? I understand that if the plane is near the ground that cell phones would theoretically be able to pick up a tower, but if I have trouble getting a signal in my *apartment*, wouldn't it be even harder in a tin tube several miles overhead the tower when at cruising altitude? People can already use their cells during the plane's taxi, so if they lift the ban, that would give them, what, another five minutes?
Somebody please explain this -- I really don't get it. Sorry for the AC post.
Given there's been a ban for so long, it makes me wonder how many phones won't actually behave well when in flight. They might not be able to cope with the rapid change between cells. Not to mention there aren't any cells in range when flying over the sea?
Of course, maybe cell tech can be fitted into the plane and transmitted some other way.
...where the guy has the giant 3 foot cellphone and shouts into it at public places? I don't think it will be quite that bad, but it'll be annoying. Maybe if everyone put their fingers in their ears and shouts "LA LA LA LA" at the offender it'll get the point across.
Cellphones Aloft: The Inevitable Is Closer By KEN BELSON and MICHELINE MAYNARD
Published: December 10, 2004
The day may finally be coming when you will be allowed to make calls on your own cellphone from an airliner. Trouble is, so will the passengers sitting on either side of you, and in front and in back of you, as well.
Federal regulators plan next week to begin considering rules that would end the official ban on cellphone use on commercial flights. Technical challenges and safety questions remain. But if the ban is lifted, one of the last cocoons of relative social silence would disappear, forcing strangers to work out the rough etiquette of involuntary eavesdropping in a confined space.
"For some people, the idea of being able to pick up their phone is going to be liberating; for some it's going to drive them crazy," said Addison Schonland, a travel industry consultant at the Innovation Analysis Group in La Jolla, Calif. "Can you imagine 200 people having a conversation at once? There's going to be a big market for noise-canceling headphones."
The always-on-the-road business travelers may become the worst offenders, predicted Roger Entner, a telecommunications analyst with the Yankee Group and a frequent flier. "Businessmen will now compete with toddlers for the title of 'most annoying in the airplane,' " Mr. Entner said.
It may be years before cellphones become widely used in the skies. To begin with, conventional cellphones, besides raising concerns about interfering with cockpit communications, typically do not work at altitudes above 10,000 feet or so.
But some airlines have already begun their own tests of technology meant to make cellphone use feasible at 35,000 feet. They know that the seatback phones they now offer, costing $1.99 a minute or more, have never really caught on.
The airlines also know that, while illegal, surreptitious cellphone use at lower altitudes is already common. Airline attendants have caught some passengers using cellphones in airplane lavatories, and others have been spotted huddled in their seats, whispering into their cupped hands. For that matter, the use of BlackBerry hand-held e-mail devices is also rampant, if sub rosa, despite their also being banned on airliners.
Famously, some passengers' emergency use of cellphones played a significant role in the final minutes of the hijacked United Airlines Flight 93 before it crashed in a field near Shanksville, Pa., on Sept. 11, 2001.
A major federal effort to revisit the rules will begin next Wednesday at a Federal Communications Commission meeting, where the agency is expected to approve two measures. One, an order that is expected to be adopted, would try to introduce more price competition among phone companies to offer telephone and high-speed Internet services from the seatback and end-of-aisle phones that are now on many planes.
The second measure will begin the regulatory process of considering whether there are technical solutions to some of the current obstacles to passengers' using their own mobile phones on planes.
Safety will be a major consideration in any rule changes. The Federal Aviation Administration and Boeing, the nation's largest builder of airliners, both support the F.C.C.'s ban, arguing that cellphones can interfere with navigation systems.
In fact, European newspapers widely reported that use of a cellphone contributed to the crash of a Crossair commuter plane in 2000. LX Flight 498, carrying 10 passengers and crew members, was bound for Dresden when it crashed outside Zurich minutes after it took off, killing all on board. Officially, the reason for the crash remains unknown. But news reports at the time said a passenger apparently took a cellphone call at the same time that the pilot engaged the autopilot controls. The plane subsequently went into a dive.
Despite such questions, airlines have begun their own tests of whether cellphone use can be made feasib
First, engine and wind noise provide natural noise masking. It will only be the few closest people that you'd be able to hear talking. And to be honest, I'd mostly prefer that they talk to someone on their cell phones rather than trying to strike up a conversation with me.
Secondly, I'm surprised that the FAA and/or FCC is still concerned about the planes. I can't remember the last time I went on a flight and didn't hear a phone accidentally ring in flight. Oops. Forgot to shut off your cell phone. Yet despite most flights having at least some passengers who leave their cell phones on, it hasn't caused any problems. If it were an actual issue, it would be pervasive.
And finally, a huge number of people bring on laptops and although they might not be actively attached to a wireless connection, the computers are still sitting there probing the airwaves looking for connection points. Again, no problem there despite the fact that wireless computer technology is present and active on most flights.
-S
--- What parts of "shall make no law", "shall not be infringed", and "shall not be violated" don't you understand?
Loud and/or smelly people? They have an off button :-P
I understand that babies cry, I have young nieces. What I don't understand is if a baby is crying, the parent tries to do nothing about it. If a baby is crying, it means it needs or wants something! Don't just ignore it!
Wheel in the sky keeps on turnin'.
Here is a non subscription article.
h p? content_id=76701
http://www.financialexpress.com/fe_full_story.p
As a private pilot, I always leave my cell phone on when I fly VFR. (So far I haven't flown into any mountains due to navigational system confusion.)
The only way that I can get my phone to work is to descend very low in a rural area. If I'm up more than about 2000' AGL, then the phone doesn't work. I figure that it gets confused because it probably sees a dozen towers with strong signals.
Commercial aircraft would probably have to install special equipment to receive the signal inside of the airplane and then connect to the phone network directly.
Ha, ha! Nobody ever says Italy.
HELLO!
I'M ON THE PLANE!
IT'S RUBBISH!
stupid lameness filter, it is like yelling because it is yelling d'oh
Philip
Signatures are broken
I think that it will be a problem to have cell phones available in the air. I for one will pack my cell phone jammer in my luggage. The other worry I would have about cellphones on planes already exists and that is remote detonation. All it takes is one cellphone packed with plastic explosives not checked by the undertrained and ineffective security staff and welcome to Lockerbie part deux.
a slut did tulsa
That has to be one of the worse rants and reasoning I've ever heard. Just because I'm going to get shot, I don't want to get stabbed on the way. Sure, lots of other things I do are causing me to whittle down my lifespan, but I don't particularly want to die any earlier than I already plan to. Listen, maybe you don't get this, but you are using something that KILLS! I don't want that shit near me, ever. What's the difference between making someone inhale your smoke and poisoning them? Same effect.
You're acting like smoking is something natural. IT ISN'T! Yes, I know, neither is going to McDonald's and eating their crap, but guess what? I don't shove their crap down your throat! You are *forcing* me to inhale your smoke when you're near me.
Granted, if you are moving towards someone who's smoking, you've got no reason to make a comment. That still doesn't make the rest of your rant any more valid.
Wheel in the sky keeps on turnin'.
As always an unsubscribed item could be found at yahoo
Always carry a full complement of SHHH cards: Shhh.pdf
Ceci n'est pas une sig
So if they do this and you make a call which band are you charged under as if I'm in a foriegn country I know what I'm paying. If I'm flying over multiple countries does my billing change as I go along. Hopefully there would just be a flat rate anyway ($10/minute should be enough to keep people quiet)
Rus
Cheap UK and US VPS
You don't yell at the person next to you because you can *see* she hears you, you do yell at the person on the other end of the transmission chain because you *feel* he can't hear you. Most people don't say they want 3G phones, but many would like decent voice phones.
This is not a signature.
A number of train companies (Switzerland, Germany, ...) now offer mobile phone-free compartments. Maybe there will be a mobile phone-free business class section?
Rubies and Pearls are not what you think.
The reason cell phones are banned until aircraft are cruising at altitude, along with laptops, portable game consoles, DVD players, etc., is that their RF emissions supposedly interfere with the navigation and communication electronics on the aircraft.
Cell phones are also banned during the full flight because it was thought that phones traveling across the landscape at 300-500mph would cause problems in the cell switching system, which expected that phones would stay within each cell for a longer period. Apparently, more study indicates that the cell switching system could handle it well, so they are considering changing these rules.
On the navigation interference issue, studies have shown marginal effects at most. Cell phones are designed to emit much stronger signals than a laptop, and also emit similar frequencies from their circuitry. Yet, on several recent flights, they announced promptly on landing that cell phones could be switched on, but not other devices such as laptops. which are prohibited until the plane docs at the gate.
It seems to me that somebody isn't thinking and I'd hope that we could use our laptops immediately on landing also. My recent flights with this announcement were on Delta. Any similar experiences with different airlines?
No, I'm not annoyed in the slightest, because I'm not American and therefore don't have their bizarre issues with people using cell phones. When will they catch on that it's normal everywhere else? ;-)
Perhaps it'll happen at the same time the other half of them realise that the phone hears you just as well if you don't scream at the top of your voice.
The people who want the laws enacted are worse than the jerks. Jerks are just annoying.
People who enact laws are forcing you to act the way they want or they'll put you in prison. In other words, they're a dangerous threat to you.
Why oh why do you always find it so freakin necessary to point to the NY Times article?!?!? A simple search on Google News turned up 4 different non-login necessary sites with (essentially) the same freakin article!!
C el l+phone+ban&ie=UTF-8&filter=0
http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ned=us&q=FAA+
Amtrak has the same thing on most northeast corridor trains. The front cars are 'quiet cars'.
Personally, I want a cell jammer, a good 20 square foot 'cone of silence' would be great.
Now there can be an end to the airline's monopoly on in-flight Internet access. Gives us geeks something to do while sitting for hours on a plain.
Why bother.
Seriously. Calm down people. If you are afraid of loud noises maybe you shouldn't have left the farm.
Main problem I see is the very loud background noise on plans. People will be screaming into their cell phones just to be heard on the other end.
:)
I for one would love to have my cell phone (and accompanying data service) working on the place. Would love to e-mail and whatnot while in the air.
Even if someone else is talking loudly on their cell phone, unless if they are right next to you, you probably won't be able to hear much of it and you should be watching the movie anyway.....
-m
http://www.invisik.com
Download this.
At least it'll make you feel a little better.
-- There is no sig line, only Zuul.
Consider:
The latter will intrude a lot more on your book/crossword/snooze whatever than the former.
Justin.
You're only jealous cos the little penguins are talking to me.
well, if it's such a problem, do what the japanese do... on the shinkansen (bullet train) which is essentially a slow airplane on wheels, the vestibule near the toilets is the required spot for all mobile conversations... if your phone rings, you leave your seat and have your conversation back by the loos, not in your seat
it works because everyone respects not being an ass to others... whether or not this would work on airplanes is another matter, but the idea of a mobiles section in the same sense as smoking sections would be a step in the right direction
As a private pilot, I always leave my cell phone on when I fly VFR. (So far I haven't flown into any mountains due to navigational system confusion.)
...).
I don't.
The phone interferes with the VHF radio - I know this because I can hear it. What I don't know is whether it interferes with the NAV radio or with other electronic gear on the plane. How would I know? - the result might simply be a needle pointing the wrong way, which could be bad news if I was using that needle (sure, if I'm flying VFR then all the electronic gear is secondary to reading the map and looking out of the window, but even so
Remember 9/11 when people on the doomed airliners were making calls to their loved ones? Cell phones worked pretty well on airplanes back in 2001.
I think the most annoying thing in the world is some stupid wanker using the 2-way nextel crap.
I go to the restaurant to eat my lunch in peace, and then I hear the stupid annoying beep and then somebody behind me yells out "WHAT'S UP GIRLLLLLLLLLLLLFRIEEEEEEEEEND!". When I hear that, I get a sudden urge of getting up, going over there, grabbing that stupid bitch's phone, show it up her ass, and then sticking my cock down her throat until she stops breathing.
Another example, I'm sitting in my class, trying to pay attention to the professor babeling something about intel network processors and all of the sudden that stupid anoying sound wakes me up and I hear "HEY FUCKER, PICK UP THE PHONE!". I just wanna go over there, grab that wanker's nextel phone, and show it up his ass!
GOD, STFU!
I think there should be a legal age for cellphone use. So, 21 would be alcohol drinking age and lets say 23 would be for cellphones.
I swear, those wankers are almost as annoying as the stupid aol messenger sound that plays every fucking time somebody sends a message. I swear that program is worst piece of shit ever designed in the world! Why the fuck do you gotta play the stupid annoying sound each time you send/receive a message? I wouldn't be supprised if in new version they add a default feature where it will play the annoying message each time somebody pushes the key on the keyboard. I am so glad I'm not a stupid-aol-using-fscking wanker.
Would you like a seat in celling or no-celling?
When I am on a plane flight, especially a long one, there is an expectation that most people are going to be quiet and many people will be trying to sleep. The absolute last thing I want is for a bunch of cell phones to be constantly ringing and a bunch of lame-asses endlessly talking.
I'm sorry, but in my opinion, no one who flies on a commercial flight is that important to need constant cell phone connectivity. Get over it, and unplug for a while. Your life, and the lives of others will be better off for it.
My mom always said, "Jim, you're 1 in a million." Given the current population, there are 7000 of me. God help us all!
Go ahead, you know you want to, too.
Do not touch -Willie
It is the same with NY and people with Cell Phones while driving they started talking and driving all the time getting into accidents so NY made it illegal to talk on a cell phone and drive at the same time.
Being in NY (Rochester) myself, I can say that nobody seems to care - I can't remember the last day I didn't see at least 2 people talking on their phones and driving. Not to mention all the times i've almost been sideswiped or t-boned by an obviously distracted person that I couldn't see clearly before getting out of the way.
I think that if it becomes a problem, you might see the occasional backlash. I can see the occasional annoyed passenger do something like this:
"Gosh, I'm really sorry for dumping my __insert sticky beverage of choice__ on you!
I feel so..... terrible.
Here, how about some club soda? Let me hold that phone while you clean up!"
-- No sig for you!
The FAA has no business trying to keep people from being rude. Why should the FAA regulate rudeness. Should the FTC be concerned with people talking loudly or on cellphones in theaters? It should be up to the airline if phones are not to be used.
Example: Excuse me sir, if you keep up the loud obnoxious cellphone talking, we'll be forced to tazer you and sit you between the three body odor offenders in row F.
The FAA should only be concerned if there's a valid problem with equipment interferrance. Which I would hope not, because then we'd be forced to use those $4.50/min credit card phones on the seat-backs.
www.facebook.com/DareDefendOurRights
www.fairtax.org
What is it with the frickin Jihad people have on using phones in a public place? Last I had heard, noone had legislated that being a inconsiderate assmunch was illegal. Here's my tips for blocking out people talkign loudly (it works on my wife, so it will work on your idiot cell phone user):
1. Headphones man....put em on when you get to flight level and crank away my friend!
2. Just ignore it. Get into something like a good book and you can block out most anything.
3. Relax! It's ok dude! That person talking on thier cell phone is exercising their rights. You can't legistlate the rights of people to be idiots. People are going to be idiots whether they have their cell in their ear or not.
Now, here's a list of cell phone usage rules for the idiots:
1. Vibrate man.....put it on vibrate on the plane, in the theater or in a restaurant. If it's a quick call, take it. If it's going to get extended, head for the restroom and finish it up in there.
2. USE YOUR INSIDE VOICE! If your in a bad cell, hang up, call later.
3. If it's on audio ring, silence it quickly. No reason to hear more then the opening bar or two of music.
4. If you simply need to make that call, then wait til you get to a private location. Don't make extended chattering calls in public. If it's simple hey we're running late calls, go ahead and make it or take it. If you feel the need for a cell convo to take your whole plane ride, don't. As you can see from the posts hear on slashdot, it annoys people.
Lastly for everyone, TAKE A FRICKIN CHILL PILL! People are idiots with or with out cellphones, cars, bicycles, walkmans, bass thumpers, iPods, laptops....etc, etc....they will continue to be idiots when you take their toys away (in fact they willl be worse because now you have to listen to them whine about it).
Gorkman
It is bad enough to have someone talking on a phone in an aircraft, but the real problem is that most of the RF energy generated by the phone STAYS IN THE AIRCRAFT (metal skin, standing waves)- kind of like (you being) in a Microwave oven. While one phone is not a serious problem, imagine 25 to 50 of these on at the same time...
Those who have infant children can fight back -- with a screaming baby and a poopy diaper. Those of us whose children have outgrown that will just let them play their headphones at the usual volume. The rest of you can suffer.
"Who controls the past controls the future. Who controls the present controls the past." -- George Orwell
If only we could block voice traffic and not text traffic on planes. Text messaging is a quiet, discrete, polite way to communicate when crammed like sardines into a metal tube hurtling through the sky at 800kph.
You have two hands and one brain, so always code twice as much as you think!
...has no (official) jurisdiction outside of the United States, except for US-bound flights.
Unfortunately, the FAA tends to lead the way in air transport rules and regulations, for better or worse.
This is one time where I would like to see the EU be a nanny state.
Cellphones in the air - everywhere i look around! .. dabda .. dabda .. dabda .. dabda
Cellphones in the air - doing bad annoying sounds!
If we are really relying on the passengers remembering to do something to ensure safety, then the system will not be robust - in other words safety becomes dependent on there never being an idiot/forgetful person on the flight. It must be the other way round, or I for one would never fly again!
J.
You're only jealous cos the little penguins are talking to me.
What are you, some kind of pussy?
Damn, what a nasty individual you must be to actually have to be around. Yuk. Come near me with an attitude or get in my childs face like that an you'd be instantly tazed ya fat lazy ass.
Seriously, Why do people feel the need to SHOUT at thier cell phone while talking with someone? Oh wait, the microphone is 2 inches form my mouth, I better talk LOUDER so that the person can hear me cause it is realy a small microphone.
How about this... IF THE PERSON CANNOT HEAR YOU, TELL THEM TO TURN THIER PHONE UP!
Really, I am not stressed out, ok, well maybe a little, aww heck, Im the next road rage king, I can see it coming...
Wow this thread over-dramatizes a lot on such a silly issue.
The main thing we should be concerned about first and foremost is the safety of the plane (and for all you folks spelling plane like plain...please just use a dictionary if you are having trouble with a word). If its tested to be safe to use cellphones on the plane, then I think it could be useful. I'm thinking of the times I travel to visit my friends in Hawaii, which is a 13 hour flight. Talk about boredom.
As for people getting bent out of shape over rude people using cell phones...you people have spines?
If someone gets loud and abnoxious on the phone next to you, speak up!
Make your first time polite and courtesy..that's warning one.
Warning two, if the rude person continues...you get more brief and to the point.
If he/she still persists...then you scream in their face and let the blunt honesty come out...
"Listen you rude Son of a Bitch, I've asked you nicely two times now and you still don't shut the hell up....etc etc..."
Most people however, I feel would be quick (10 minutes or less) and would not be too loud.
But the future dad sitting in front of you who is desperately trying to get through to his highly pregnant wife would probably not appreciate
Rubies and Pearls are not what you think.
http://www.globalgadgetuk.com/Personal.htm
:-)
Much better solution
If you choose to talk on your cell phone while driving, you affect me because you might hit me and kill me.
If you choose to talk on your cell phone while on a plane, I might be annoyed but that doesn't mean you're actually hurting me.
Huge difference.
Better that "loud anoying person" be the phone than talking to me or the other "loud anoying person" they are traveling with. Truth be told you don't need a cell phone to be "loud" and/or "anoying".
A pathetic AC blared "Damn, what a nasty individual you must be to actually have to be around." and then went on to moo about their kid and claim that they'd use a tazer on me if I were ever to approach them on an aircraft.
At least I can put my name to my statements, coward.
Additionally, I'd be most amused to see the end results of your managing to smuggle a weapon on board an aircraft.
Finally, if your kid makes loud wailing noises at the top of its lungs and/or kicks me, then really, as long as I don't escalate the issue, but merely respond at the same level then how can you rationally be irritated at my actions and not the brats?
kartune85 : Incapable of reason, observation or learning. A kind of dim, drab, flightless parrot.
In-flight internet access without huge bills. Since I travel a lot for work, I bought a mobile plan that lets me run a cable from my laptop to my mobile phone, so that I can browse and e-mail from just about anywhere. I would be SO happy if I could do this during an 8-hour flight. And so would many who are tied to the Internet as part of their job (or are addicted like me).
Have you ever had a flight where the person next to you decided to tell you their life story? You know, putting on headphones and closing your eyes doesn't seem to give them the hint?
:)
I speak from recent experience -- perhaps without the cellphone ban, she could have annoyed someone else.
That's because Rochesterians can't drive. I lived in NYC all my life, and it wasn't until I came to Rochester for college that I saw people doing horrendous things on the roads like left turns on red and running reds outright. Don't even get me started on the stop sign abuse!
The previous sig has been removed due to
Some people seem to be mystified as to why some others find obnoxious cellphone users so annoying. Personally, I think it's because those loud, one-sided conversations are a bit like audio spam. Not in the sense that it's trying to sell you something, but because the listener is effectively powerless to do anything about it (unless you want to get into a confrontation, which most don't). Think about it: Spam is annoying because there is this sense that someone can reach out and plant irrelevant messages in your inbox that you have to spend time and attention deleting. It's this feeling that someone else has power over you (despite the best filters, I still get a few every day) is what is so annoying. In the same way, it's that these people yacking in a very loud voice is effectively subjecting you to something that you have little or no control over, and you have to spend time and valuable "mental space" trying to ignore or block out. It takes effort. Noise can be very, very irritating, since it's so hard to screen out. The sense of hearing is one of those (like smell) that we cannot easily tune out, without substantial inconvenience (i.e. blocking out all other sounds).
It's no coincidence that the most common "quality of life" complaint is about noise from your neighbors.
So, for all those people who are saying "just chill out, relax, tune it out", you should realize that this is pretty much the same response that spammers give when they are criticized for sending out thousands of useless messages to people who aren't remotely interested in what they have to sell. Saying "oh just chill out and don't listen to it" and "oh, just hit delete and relax" is pretty much the same thing. The key is to realize that even if you personally don't find it annoying, MANY other people do.
I think that with all the loud background noise on planes, this would mean that people would talk even more loudly than normal on a cellphone. And, in my experience, there is always someone who seems totally oblivious to the loudness of their own phone voice. They are totally focused on their conversation, and simply don't care about the people around them. Or, perhaps they actually believe that other people are interested in what they are saying - I certainly think that this is the case sometimes. I have heard cellphone users talking loudly about stuff that seems purposely designed to be heard by the passers by, particularly when it pertains to something "cool" that the person did, e.g. a sexual conquest, or when the person is trying to be "wise" and demonstrate to everyone around them what a great person they are. There's something about having an audience that makes people behave a little differently. In a twisted way, they believe everyone else will be interested in what they have to say, just like those people who believe that everyone in the vicinity simply *MUST* love the song that's playing on their music system (of course, they totally forget that treble doesn't travel so well, so other people mostly just hear the thudding "dmpha dmpha dmpha" of the bass, like a bad headache), or the guys who drive around very aggressively with screeching tires for no apparent reason ("ooooohhhh, he must be *such* a great driver" is what is going through their little heads, methinks)...
I believe that if cellphones became formally permissable on planes then we are going to see an increase in "air rage" incidents because of the closed space and already somewhat tense environment. People are already primed to be annoyed by the time they step on the plane, what with all the parking hassles, lines, delays, security checks and other impediments to their getting from A to B. We certainly don't need to finally settle down into that airplane seat, only to realize that the asshat behind us wants to talk to Lenny in marketing about the latest sales figures. When that happens in the terminal, I simply get up and walk away. On a plane, not really an option.
Just my opinion...
How is it that Cell Phone radiation, which is approximately the same as that from a microwave oven, can escape a metal airframe?
When you talk on a landline phone, you hear your own voice. On a mobile, your voice is not played back in your ear to save power.
Some people not hearing there own voice played back to them, makes them speak louder.
Also, the FCC is not talking about using your phone the way it is today, but setting up micro-cells on planes which communicate via sattalite to the ground.
Another thing, did you ever notice how easy it is to do anything on a cell phone? Call someone bac, 1-button, free caller id, etc. Is there any reason land line phones coulnd't do the same things? No, but then again they don't earn money ever minute they are used.
I am a student pilot, and nowhere in the FAR does it say anything about cellphones. This rule is from the FCC, not the FAA. The closest the FAA has is FAR 91.21 which gives part 91 carriers the right to decide who can use what aboard their aircraft.
Again, give credit where credit is due: This is the FCC's rule, not the FAA's.
Take a gander at this "report" that suggests that calls made above 8000 ft. are impossible from an airplane, and that calls below that are unlikely...
So... is the conclusion drawn from this report wrong?
s/they/that/
A house divided against itself cannot stand.
And your fat baby Jesus too.
>> "What would the robut do? Frame someone!"
Those who say its easy to use a cell phone on a plane have obviously never tried it.
-------------------------------------------------
Maybe they can start handing out Valium so the rest of us can sleep.
"Simplify, simplify, simplify!" Thoreau
I was wondering why my coffee wasn't getting cold.
No, actually, Microwave ovens are in the 100W range, cell phones in the 100mW range. Note the little 'm'.
Very nice--bragging about threatening to injure people, screaming at children, and stealing others' property in the same post. I'm sure you're a great person to hang out with...
Sorry, can't hear you.... I use the cheapo plastic ear protectors they sell in Hardware stores. Has more impact on the offender when I put them on in front of them with an angry face.....
Huh?
Most of the discussion so far has focused on whether people should be allowed to do this, how annoying they'll be, etc.
But my question is this: People say that cell phones might be dangerous, but does anyone here know how this is? What "navigational equipment" are they talking about when they say the cell phones might interfere? Does anyone believe that story in 2000 where they're saying that some guy flipping on his phone caused the plane to nose dive? Is the navigation equipment really that flaky?
I'm curious whether there is anyone out there who actually knows about frequency/radio/signal stuff AND airplane equipment that could shed some light on what the real danger is?
My guess is that the FAA has been "playing it safe" as a precaution.
If you are creative, and want to add to the din, simply imagine the other side of the conversation, and in a very loud voice, share it with all!
This issue is a bit more complicated than you think.
so?
That's why Jet Blue rocks. Every seat has a video screen with DirecTV channels. I put on my Bose noise cancelling headphones, and the miles zip by in bliss and no one bothers you.
--- Ban humanity.
Wow, the pathetic cowards are out in force today... This one sounded off with "Very nice--bragging about threatening to injure people, screaming at children, and stealing others' property in the same post. I'm sure you're a great person to hang out with."
Well, my apologies. Bragging was not intended, but I make no apologies for the actions taken either.
Generally the net result is a quieter, more pleasant, less stressfull journey for everyone except the instigating jerk.
If some jerks will not have to common sense and basic manners required to behave reasonably, and will not take the polite hints/suggestions then the worthwhile people have to decide either to take the shit being handed out, or do something about the problem.
As for the "stealing" charge, well, my plans to continue the policy aside, the actual occurances have technically been "the making safe of a device which was being used illegally to endanger lives".
And yes, I do pinch out other peoples cigarettes if they light up in a no-smoking area.
But here's a key item that I assumed was obvious from the start.
I politely ask the "jerk" to stop first.
Usually I will also follow up with a specific statement of my intent if they decline to stop.
kartune85 : Incapable of reason, observation or learning. A kind of dim, drab, flightless parrot.
I don't pretend to think this is an original thought... I'll say it anyway. For each time that I wished I could make a call from a plane, there were probably 50 times that I was glad I had a rock-solid excuse for not being called by anybody, and there were probably a 100 times that I didn't even think about that I would have been disturbed by somebody else on their phone.
Now the announcement from the crew will be "please put your phones on vibrate out of respect for your fellow passengers," and that will be largely ignored along with something about oxygen masks and floatation devices.
I'm all in favor of dumb rules going away and freedom to use my phone when I really need to, but I really believe that I will miss the relative peace that came with knowing that nobody had a phone and there was nothing we could do about it.
On another topic, I thought I heard that cell phone towers only have a range of a mile or two. So how is it that we expect to be able to use our cell phones at 30,000 feet (5.6 miles)? Just wondering.
RP
Note that you are a complete dumbass. The OP was referring to the frequency range (note the little word FREQUENCY) and the fact that the airframne is a good imitation of a Faraday cage. The output power of the phone being in the mW makes that even harder. And what kind of microwave oven works at 100W?? It would take 15 minutes to boil a cup of water.
Just hang yourself now.
The usual half of a conversation isn't that good:
"where you at?"
"No. I'm at the movie watching Hero"
"No. It sucks. I thought it was all fighting,"
"Wanna go get beer later?"
"yeah. I'll be over"
That is actually possible. If Airbus were to introduce small pico transmitters into their planes, the Pico transmitters can shut down voice communications, and only allow GPRS, or GSM subbands (for SMS)
..... ten minuites later
And yes, SMS is MUCH better, not just for discreteness but imaging speaking to someone the following conversation:
You: I am on flight XY123 and i am late into Term..&^*&^* by &*(*&(hours
them: can you repeat that?
you: I am on flight XY^%& and I am late into terminal 3 by ^&* hours
them: can you repeat that
you: I am on flight XY123 and I am late into terminal three by 2 hours.
them: oh ok
them: erm can you say that again, i lost the paper i noted it down on.
you: errrrrrrrhhhhhh
whereas a simple SMS is discrete and gets the message across as quick as possible.
Have a nice day!
When people near me are using technology to speak to friends and relatives instead of being as bored as me. I like the current airphones ok, because it means that the bastards have to pay through the nose, and communication should be expensive. After all, what about my right to not have to put up with people talking around me? What about my freedom from speech?
Oh, wait...
Seriously, I really hate this logic. Cellphones are a wonderful, lifesaving technology. Sure, people use them wrong sometimes, and sometimes I'll hear one side of a stupid conversation, and that side is really loud. You know how we talk at a certain volume into a phone, and a softer volume to someone right next to us? I betcha that's a technical problem no one cared about until cellphones became ubiquitous. I bet that having a better microphone plus some voice enhancement software (cutting out the nonspeech band I think happens already during compression but is anything amplifying the strongest sound source yet?) will eventually allow you to talk at a murmur and still be clearly heard.
Until then, the principles of freedom dictate that we put up with the inconvenience, instead of going with junk science (turn off gameboys at takeoff) and luddites (i haet teh c3llphones c4n i jam tem pls?).
I'd love there to be "no cellphone" flights for the few people who would prefer them, or a "no cellphoning" section of the airplane. That way people could still get their chance at not being bothered. But, failing that, the default should not be to deny people access to their useful and frankly somewhat godlike (by standards of generations ago, this is telepathy) technology.
Personally, I would glady put up with cellphones, if they would ban reclining seats.
If it were really that important, he'd be with his wife, not on a plane, where there's no way he can do anything except spin and flutter, no?
Yeah, right.
The guy on the 9/11 flight that crashed in a field in Pennsylvania called his wife to say goodbye before they tried to take over the aircraft from terrorists. In all honesty I'd actually have a cell with me on the flight if anything for a crash even just on the off chance I can use it to get help if nothing else is available.
~~ Behold the flying cow with a rail gun! ~~
Earplugs...If you couldn't hear it...EARPLUGS!!!! Complaining because you can hear someone talking in while riding on public transportation is incredibly rude. Instead of trying force everyone around you to conform to what you want, for less than a dollar you can buy a set of earplugs, and cut out not only the people talking on cell phones, but people talking in person, radios, and engine noise.
I thought the reason you couldn't use a phone on the plane actually had more to do with FCC regulations than FAA ones.
Cell phones work by assigning a particular set of frequencies to a particular geographic area, and then reusing those frequencies further away where there is no chance for interference (phones that use spread spectrum work more or less the same way, only the frequency separation is more dynamic). When you take a phone operating within such an arrangement and suddenly raise its altitude a few thousand feet, it can suddenly be present in many, many cells. This causes interference in every cell where the phone is not actually communicating with that cell's tower.
I have heard of plans to put micro-cells aboard planes. Such micro-cells would instruct the phones to use low enough power that this wouldn't happen. THAT is a much different scenario, but I wonder how many different modulation types (and therefore customer populations) will be able to be handled by such a scheme. Those who aren't covered by a cell in the plane should not be using their phones for the technical reasons described above.
As for whether people can talk on a phone or not, I fail to see the distinction between talking on a phone and talking to a person next to you. I've seen drivers distracted by their fellow passengers with equal frequency to drivers distracted on a phone. I've seen loud, obnoxious boors talking way too loud to people 3 feet away with equal frequency to the same boors shouting into a phone. What's the difference? Rudeness is the same whether technology is involved or not.
they probably will cost a lot more, but if the cords are shielded, i suspect you won't hear anything.
Wow. Talk about mod abuse. You may not agree with his post (I found it funny, personally), but it is *far* from off-topic. In fact, it was a direct response to the grandparent.
I went through providers over the years. I don't pick them by the ability to get a signal on the plane, mind you, but it never hurts to do a little test:
1. Verizon CDMA-800 kinda works when the plane's still low, and you might get a signal at cruse altitude every now and then. That phone also had analog roaming, and it picked up analog signal sometimes.
2. TDMA works quite well.
3. GSM-1800 doesn't work AT ALL.
BTW, if any of you don't understand how come the FAA worries about something as insignificant as a ell phone disrupting avionics, you can do a little experiment - put your cell next to a car radio and call it. I'm not sure how likely you'd be to have the same effect with CDMA and analog, but GSM phones time-multiplex the channel, and most radios would pick up the multiplex frequency, which would come out of your speakers as rather unplesant loud hum, akin to a modem sound.
No it doesn't bother me at all when someone is on their phone. I can't wait to be able to use my cell phone on a plane, that's awesome! I'd gladly even pay $20 more on my flight for such service. Thank God for this!
I think I people seem to talk louder on cell phones than "normal" phones is because they can't hear themselves talk. I noticed this when I first made the jump to my cell phone a few years ago. I tended to talk louder and it takes a GREAT conscious effort to talk softer. What tipped me off is that it wasn't like the person couldn't hear me when I talked softer, so I figured that it couldn't be the difference in the cell phone's microphone.
Try this...
Pick up your desk/home phone. Dial a couple numbers to get some dead air and blow into the receiver (no jokes, please) or scratch it with your fingernail. You'll find that you can hear the noise pretty well in the listening end of the phone.
Now do the same with your cell. Nothing, right?
I think this is the same effect of singers using an audio monitor in their ear for pitch control or plugging your ears when you hum. I think if we were able to hear ourselves speak, we'd all chill a little instead of making up for our perceived lack of volume.
Whattaya think?
Having trouble with the fellow next to you talking too loudly? A cell phone user cussing out their employee? Here's a nutty thought: Ask them politely to keep their voice down. Now, I know that sounds a little wacky to those of you who would rather hang back silently judging, but let me tell you I have tried it many times successfully. It requires a little known ability called courtesy, but with practice, you may be able to acquire this skill, too. Good luck, and welcome to the wonderful world of talking to strangers!
Have you ever opened your phone? It's stuffed solid with electronics. There is no space for any considerable amount of explosives - unless you remove some parts, breaking the radio part. This is why the gate security sometimes ask you to turn the phone on for them, to make sure it's still a phone, and not a bomb in a phone case. With the phone still operational, you could probably put in enough explosives to take off the phone user's finger. Downing a plane would take a lot more.
For me as a frequent traveller to and from touristic zones (Caribbean & Central America) the most annoying thing are tourists. "Awww honey, look at the rainforest, we HAVE to go and see it... !", and I wake up, very heated. I will prefer listening to some jerk lawyer or a businessman over that any time of the day because there is much more interesting stuff going on, I may even learn something.
Give the man a fish and he owes you one fish, teach the man to fish and you have just lost your fishing monopoly.
True... The GSM standards (which is the only one that works internationally as far as I know) works at 20 kms MAX due to timing issues (the signal would arrive so late that it would jam the next time slot).
However, GSM also allows only maximum speeds of 250 km/hr (150 mph or so), due to the doppler shift changing the signal rate. So I'm surprised if you can get one to work in an airliner with a ground speed of about 4 times that..
It is the same with NY and people with Cell Phones while driving they started talking and driving all the time getting into accidents so NY made it illegal to talk on a cell phone and drive at the same time.
No, it is not illegal to talk on a cell phone while driving in NY. It is now mandatory to use a hands-free system, that's all. Which is nonsensical IMO; the hazard is not caused by holding a phone in your hand, it's caused by concentrating on a phone conversation when you should be concentrating on the road.
Downmodding is the refuge of the weak. Don't downmod, make a better argument!
The built-in phones in the airplane don't work on the normal mobile network, they work on the global satellite network. This is done so you can still have coverage even when you're not flying over an inhabited area or even the ocean.
Satellite phones are much more expensive to use, and the cost of a call isn't too different from the rate charged in an airplane.. Check out the rates on the inmarsat network.. These are the old 'briefcase' satellite phones and those are also the ones built into the airplanes as far as I know.
There are cheaper satellite networks like Iridium, but I don't think they are used on airliners yet.
I don't know why people get so upset over others talking on their phones. It honestly doesn't bother me. If someone can tell me what negative effect it has on me, then I might be annoyed. But for the most part, I can't see a problem with it.
What's the difference if two people near you are standing there talking to each other versus one person on a cell phone? You maybe get to eavesdrop on the entire conversation with both people, but that's the only difference I see.
Headset laws when driving are probably a good idea to keep people's hands on the wheel, but I don't see any reason to limit/regulate usage. You have to remember that some people actually use their phones for important things also, not just talking to their girlfriend in babytalk.
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Allowing cell phones might be a great idea on domesic, or shorter flights. But as soon as you get over the ocean, what's going to happen? Everyone is going to start yelling that they are losing reception, and then the phones will all cut out leaving a bunch of really irrate people, who were just about to close a big business deal.
In the thread above someone mentioned the possibility of a picocell. This might work, but once again, there is the need for transmitting from the aircraft that is in the middle of the Atlantic, to the closest station, which will be who knows where.
If this goes through, the first airline to offer "quiet" planes for specific segments (i.e. select flights with cell phone bans) will gain competitive advantage, albeit a temorary one as all airlines will quickly follow suit. You can start adding it to the search engines now.. Non-stop, Window Seat, Veggie Meal, No Cell Phones!
Just because there isn't a technical problem with allowing phones doesn't mean there isn't a marketing advantage to NOT allowing them.
Unfortunately, with a cell phone jammer, the "bla bla bla" might be replaced with "BLA BLA BLA CAN YOU HEAR ME? BLA BLA BLA CAN YOU HEAR ME NOW?"
I did something similar with a GPS device, and unless it was right next to the window I couldn't get a signal. As it was, I could only get 3 or 4 satellites.
I was under the impression that airlines were getting ready to offer cellular by installing the necessary repeaters. I would almost bet they will charge a fee for this, kind of like roaming. I mean, come on, they charge a fee now for some crap headphones. Do you really think they will offer this for free?
Funny how we couldn't use cell phones when the airlines couldn't make any money.
I rarely read replies, it's my opinion and if you thought about your opinion a little more, I'm OK with that.
Most importantly, there are 2 limiting factors:
It doesn't accept phones further than 20 kms from the base station because the signal takes so long to get there that it will jam the next time slot
It doesn't allow speeds greater than 250 km/hr because the doppler shift stretches the signal too much.
So, an airliner flying at 10 km altitude will have a very limited view of base stations, and it's cruising speed of 1000 km/hr will be 4 times the limit. I'm pretty sure this won't work.
Perhaps in the U.S. where analog networks are still commonplace, you could get a connection on one of them. But I don't see it happening with GSM. Perhaps during take-off and landing but that would be it.
Q. Why can't I use my phone more the 35 km's from a base station?
A. Basically once the Base Station is more then 35 km's away the TDMA signalling fails because of the time required to reply.
To allow maximum number of users access, each band is subdivided into 124 carrier frequencies spaced 200KHz apart, using FDMA techniques. By applying TDMA techniques, each of these carrier frequencies is further subdivided into time slots which provide each user with the carrier frequency for approximately 0.577ms. This equates to approx 217 jumps per second, but amongst a very small frequency range so encryption is a must for proper security of calls. In fact it is not exactly that, it is hopping 13 times every 60 ms, which gives 13/0.06 per second. 0.577ms = 13 frames/60 ms
As soon as you get more then 35km from the base station, the phone cannot respond in time (eg in that time slot) so the base station starts handling another call.
source: http://www.mobileworld.org/gsm_faq_04.html
Now that's the maximum, but I remember reading about deployed stations with 20 km radius for sure.
Imagine a phone with a micro-power radar system that images the position of your lips, tongue, vocal cords, etc. This is built into the phone and when you make a call in a public place, you whisper inaudibly and the system converts it to full-volume speech and sends it back to your ear and off to the your listener.
Civil tranquility restored?
1. stand in front of the talker
2. get and maintain eye contact
3. repeat 1 & 2 until they respond and stop.
It is very polite.
You don't have to say anything.
And it works every time
I'm sure airlines will be do different:
"HELLO!" "I'M ON THE SUBWAY. WE'RE ABOUT TO GO INTO A TUNNEL!" "What?" "WHAT?" "I'M ON THE SUBWAY. WE'RE ABOUT TO GO INTO A TUNNEL!" "What?" "WHAT?" "I'M ON THE SUBWAY. WE'RE ABOUT TO GO INTO A TUNNEL" "What?" "WHAT?"
"I'M ON THE SUBWAY. WE'RE ABOUT TO GO INTO A TUNNEL!"
Sheeesh. I so look forward to flying these days.
[ Substitute BART for 'subway' for Bay Area readers ]
Give a man a fish and you have fed him for today. Teach a man to fish, and he'll say "WHERE'S MY FISH, YOU IDIOT?"
Ignoring the whole "it's annoying" thing (i agree), potential cost issues... the thought that, it's the 21st century and they may let us actually use cell phones on planes? Gasp! About frickin time you ask me. Plane travel has gotten so bad that your lucky to get peanuts (which im' alergic to anyways) on the plane, seats are uncomfortable, and you can't use a device that's been around for 20 years... The future is never as exciting as they tell ya.
yes yes yes yes! but what did the OTHER person says!!! Thats what KILLS me!!!! I must know.... *sniffle sniffle* *whine* assholes and their cell phones =/
AMPS (analog phones) only went to 3W, and never in a handheld, only in the car installed and bag phones.
Digital phones don't surpass 600mW I believe.
Anything to keep those people sitting next to me on the plane from trying to talk to ME.
"he drew his sword Ringil that glittered like ice... and he wounded Morgoth with seven wounds..."
I basically agree with you, but there are some differences that are worth noting.
If someone is being loud and obnoxious on a city street there is generally enough background noise to cover it up, and in many cases you can walk away.
If someone is being loud and obnoxious in a restaurant or a movie theater then they generally tend to attract a lot of negative attention. As a consequence this situation is rare.
Loud and obnoxious people at work suck, because you can't just leave and in many cases you can't ask them to be quiet either. Usually the level of background noise is low as well, which really amplifies the effect of some jerk yelling at one other person on their speakerphone.
Loud and obnoxious people on a plane will suck for the same reasons as at work; you can't leave and the level of background noise isn't high enough to drown them out.
Both of which can cause fights (in your hypothetical situation). Your argument seems to hinge on the idea that it's the FAA's responsibility to regulate anything that could cause a fight. A rude person does not need a cell phone to cause a fight. Here's a list of things that by your argument's premise should be regulated by the FAA:
Putting on perfume with a barbecue brush
Screaming kid ignored by the parents
Flatulence (Flatulent Ass Administration)
General rude behavior
Spoiling airplane movies
Stealing
The list goes on. The airline has to take responsibility! You can't possibly prevent everything that "could" cause a fight. The airline can identify troublemakers and threaten to never let them fly with their airline again, or add a surcharge for rude-listed passengers. Many ways that are outside of the FAA's scope. I want the FAA to worry about accident history, maintenance checks, pilot health and security etc. Not if some flatulent obnoxious SOB decides to yell at his screaming kids for not screaming loud enough. The pilot is far removed from the situation and is behind a locked door. Our Mr. SOB is not going to bring the plane down, just tick everyone off. Besides, an airline policy would be much quicker to put in place than an FAA regulation.
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www.fairtax.org
Let them know how you feel
I swear I've lost all capasity for proper grammar today.
Why bother.
Could use it for communications as well. Can't think of anything else that would make long-distance travel more painless
No, the cat does not have my tongue. Thank you lame spam people who have made it necessary to institude dumb rules such as this.
Fuck.
Most people do not speak at all, or very limited on planes because they are not sat next to someone they wish to speak to. Your phone is full of people you wish to speak to, and therefore you are more likely to spend time on a flight talking to a friend you already have on the phone, then the smelly old "wanker" randomly chosen to sit next to you.
...without going through that silly registration business...
User name: flooby5
Password: duste
Use that, and their database will think you're a 40-something female Algerian actress, working in the education system.
Keep the peace(es).
Bruce Lane, KC7GR,
Blue Feather Technologies
This is no big deal if you have invested in one of these
My quality of life has improved ten fold since I snagged one for myself!
It's my hot spectrum, I'll do what I want!
I learned a great little trick from a letter to the editor in 2600 Magazine once.... if somebody's being a loud blabbermouth on their cell phone, just listen to everything they say... specifically listen for personal information. When (if) they get off the phone, repeat all of their personal information back to them. Tell the loud blabbermouth everything about themselves.... and watch them get scared and freaked out.
I've done in on more than one occasion - works great.
Now the airlines will have no incentive to reduce cabin noise. There'll be all those idiots in the somebody something. It'll be bedlam.
Then again, the airlines'll propably sell 'quiet flight' tickets to travellers who want to be in a 'dead zone' on a real quiet plane for X hours while they're up in the air. (No 'deaf person' or 'colicky baby' in the next seat.)
It could be the next marketing ploy.
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Download this PDF, get out your exacto knife or scissors and start fighting back.
Through the windows? Also, doesn't a Faraday cage have to be grounded?
So did you go for intentional irony by condescending to your audience and talking about courtesy in the same breath?
Ah yes, how did everyone forget, if it was really important he would never have left her side.
That's realistic, really.
In your countries, is it legal to record with a mic what people talks in the streets using cellphones? I suppose it is legal to hear what a person talks in a public place (well, you never know what to expect from the law) but what about recording it through the air?
Honestly, the last four times I was on a plane, I had left my cell phone on, to see what would actually happen (it's not like they check all the devices on your person to see if they are on or not) , and I didn't receive signal at any point during the flights until within about 2 minutes of landing or takeoff. Outside of that, too high for the signals to reach.
Therefore, this isn't really all that much. And, should something bad ever happen involving airplanes again, a lot more people would have their phones on them to notify people with.
"Champagne for my real friends - and real pain for my sham friends!" http://ericblade.postalboard.com/
As far as infrastructure is concerned. Consider that just about every airplane I've been on has Airfones in the backs of the seats. Those must be getting some kind of signal. I'm not sure if it is terrestrial or satellite based though. Also, I've got a friend who is a commercial pilot on small to medium sized jets, and he told me that he gets pretty good cell phone signal in the air.
Did you mount a military-grade, variable-focus MASER on an unlicensed artificial intelligence?
... they just need to come up with an updated, portable, cone of silence.
I can't believe no one had hacked a cell phone to create a "shoe phone" yet. Has anyone seen one?
/* TAANSTAFL */
The real issue (to me) is that people seem to be more and more inconsiderate. Cell phone usage is merely a symptom of this "me first" mentality and not the disease.
I mean almost everyone is annoyed by public cell phone conversations and/or cell phone usage while people drive. Yet they do it themselves.
People are not big on empathy these days. The next time someone is annoying you, reflect back and see if you EVER exhibit the same behavior.
That's the thing I really don't get. I don't see how talking on a phone is all that different from having a conversation with someone in the passenger seat next to you. Or maybe singing along to a song on the radio. Sure, there's a slight difference, but it's really only psychological - you may feel like concentrating on a phone call means diverting your attention to something external to your current location, whereas talking to someone next to you doesn't necessarily have the same effect.
So basically it's a matter of discipline. If I'm on the phone in the car (always using a headset), I pay attention to the road no less than I would if I were talking to someone sitting next to me. If I miss something in the conversation because that's not where my primary attention is, that's fine; I just ask the other party to repeat what they said. Any reasonable person should understand that when you're driving, your concentration isn't fully - or even primarily - on them.
So this whole thing just boils down to taking responsibility. It's a shame that so many people seem to act irresponsibly, but legislating it away isn't the answer. Talking on the phone during long lonely car trips has kept me from zoning out due to boredom on occasion. I'd hate to lose the *safety* of being able to do that due to a bunch of morons that can't use a cell phone responsibly.
Xfce: Lighter than some, heavier than others. Just right.
Some of the trains in Sweden (X2000 lines, maybe more) have mobile phone-free compartments.
Cell phone courtesy cards.
You need to find a provider that is not Cingular or T-Mobile, so that your conversations don't sound like that. :)
"Champagne for my real friends - and real pain for my sham friends!" http://ericblade.postalboard.com/
It is bad enough that we all live with cell phones. I try hard to be concerned with those around me. I make my living with my cell phone, but that does not give me the right to annoy everyone else. But I have a HUGE pet pieve with the walkie talkie service offered by Nextel and others. Do we really need to hear people shouting at each other like nine year olds in the back yard playing with walkie talkies? Especially when you can use this feature as a regular call and talk into the mouthpeaice and hear it thru the earpeice only. PLEASE ...if you have this type of service, do us all a favor and let us NOT hear both sides of the conversation!
People talk loud in noisy environments on cell phones, not because it is hard to hear, but because the damm mike on the cell phone is so far away from the person's mouth. Older (wired) phones put the mike right by the mouth, and the user is more confident that his or her speech is being picked up, in almost any environment, it is like talking into someone's ear. But with cell phones, the mike is 5 to 10 centimeters from the mouth, and the user feels that he or she must speak louder to be heard.
Older (wired) phones also have a better feedback from the mike to the earpiece - i.e. you can hear yourself talk into the mike. Cell phones seem to lack this. In a quiet environment, it doesn't matter, but it does matter in a noisy environment.
Solution: cell phones should be longer and have the mike closer to the mouth.
The difference might not be obvious, but studies show there is actually a large difference in how your attention is focused.
Talking to someone sitting next to you and talking to someone on the phone are psychologically very, very different, and you are much more likely to have an accident talking to someone on the phone.
You can get an aircraft power adapter for your cell phone (and most other portable electronics) at RadioShack, by the way. And the added bonus is that the one that fits aircraft also works in home and in car.
Why not go one step further? People will almost always give in to you if you show them a little respect. Following standard American-politician though patterns, being very respectful means they will give in to you heaps. I'm not joking! Throw in more than enough "please"s, "sir"/"maam"s and "thankyou"s and you'll be amazed at what people will do for you. They think you're spineless, but you're the one getting the better of them. Try it someday... suck up some pride, kiss some ass, and enjoy what you can make these idiots do.
OK so maybe I am dating myself... but...
It used to be that when you went on a business trip, you were "out of the office."
This meant that you might check your voice mail once or twice per day. Even then, there wasn't a whole lot you could do. At the most you could answer a few questions. The point is that you were unavailable and everyone just accepted that fact.
There was a situation at one company where a salesman was called on his cellphone during his honeymoon, and told to come back to the office because he was losing a deal.... sorry, but I am sure someone could have figured it out without ruining this poor guys honeymoon.
Now with broadband in a every room, and a cellphone on your hip you are perpetually available. On top of that, you put in a full work day in the city you are visiting, then you spend several hours answering email and voice mail in the hotel room. So in all actuality you are probably working MORE hours while on the road. AND IT IS EXPECTED!!!
Flying cattle class is as bad as it gets, but at least for X number of hours you are unavailable and can relax. But no, wait, you have to get out the laptop and work on the design proposal etc. But at least the phone isn't ringing, or someone isn't in your cubicle/office asking for something else.
So now istead of getting a few minutes to relax, or at least get some work done uninterupted, the yahoos back at the office can get ahold of you.
I have come to the conclusion that there are times when I just don't need to be available. So turn off the cellphone, leave the laptop in the case, insert headphones into iPod, shuffle songs, open good book, and relax. If it can't wait a few hours, they will find some way to figure it out without me.
-DM
Those who can do... Those who can't get a certification from Cisco or Microsoft.
That film "The Quiet American" was a lie.
Americans are just plain loud. Mobile phones just make it more obviouos.
In England, you could say "there's no need to shout, it's a very small country". But I live in Australia now and I can't say that any more.
So my advice is - talk more quietly, listen more. (That goes for your government too).
"Cats like plain crisps"
Easy enough to solve.
"Thank you for flying United Airlines today. We'd like to inform you that due to a change in FAA regulations you may now enjoy use of your cell phone during your flight. Please be advised that flight attendants will ask passengers who are distrubing others by their convesation to step outside the aircraft for the duration of their conversation."
Make it legal to kick the crap out of anyone talking on a phone in a plane.
"I'll say it again for the logic-impaired." -- Larry Wall.
Why don't they build the phones with differential mikes? Then they could turn up the gain, and people wouldn't have to shout.
Studies, blah. People can overcome the psychology of the situation if they decide to stop acting like nitwits.
Xfce: Lighter than some, heavier than others. Just right.
Now I get to hear the following conversation every time I fly somewhere:
"Hello? HELLO!?"
"Yeah, I-I'm on the plane."
"No, I'm ON THE PLANE."
"Yeah, we just took off from Cincinnati."
"CINCINNATI."
"Yeah, we're in the air! It's a new thing, you can talk on the phone in the air now."
"No, the plane's not gonna crash! Would they let me use the phone if they thought it was gonna crash the plane?"
"How should I know how it works? What am I, an aerospace engineer?"
"Screw you too, honey."
"Hey, you gonna be there to pick me up? Terminal B."
"No, B. As in boy."
"No, BOY. B as in boy, baseball, uh...Bush...uh..."
"Book! Yeah, didn't think of that. That's a good one, honey."
"Hang on, honey. There's this guy standing over me with an oxygen mask and he wants to...BLEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH!"
Really?
I'm pretty sure that when I talk on the phone while driving, I'm far more distracted than when I'm talking to someone than if they were with me in person.
The mind works quite a bit differently on the phone, there is much more visualization of the other person, where they are, subconsciously. This detracts from your situational awareness of the road. OTOH, having a person sitting next to you fits right in with your current situation, and isn't a problem.
If you watch how people drive, and who is on a phone or not, it's quite obvious that those talking on a cellphone do not drive smoothly or with nearly as much attention to what's going on around them.
I never said that it isn't the case that people tend to be more distracted on the phone than they are talking to someone sitting next to them. I merely believe that it doesn't *have* to be the case. Conscientious/responsible people *can* make a conscious decision to pay more attention to the road than the phone. Sadly, it doesn't seem to happen too often.
Xfce: Lighter than some, heavier than others. Just right.
And comparing the cell phone usage of a passenger on a plane to the use of a cell phone by the driver in a car is like comparing apples to oranges. Contrary to popular belief, using a cell phone in a plane is actually completely safe.
With your permission, I think I will get that top section printed on a t-shirt.
It's been a little over three years right? You don't remember the little story about the guy on the plane taken over by hostages calling home one last time (while the plane was low) and discovering the fate of some of the other planes?
"Uhh, I've got a plastic knife from my breakfast..."
Alegedly, the passengers mounted a concerted assault against the hijackers because of that information. That plane crashed in the middle of nowhere in Pennsylvania.
Banning cell phones on planes always was stupid.
"God is dead." - Frederik Nietzsche
Are you ever annoyed when people near you talk unnecessarily loud to each other? Or even worse, when it is in a tight, enclosed space and you can't walk away?
Yeah, they should ban speaking in poulic places!
Heh, feel free. Do post a photo if it comes out well...
kartune85 : Incapable of reason, observation or learning. A kind of dim, drab, flightless parrot.
I am actually on T-Mobile(UK), and to be honest, its not bad at all...
but given, when i roam in the US, its intresting, coz even though I have a greater choice of service providers, as the phone logs to the strongest signal (not just to one provider), I still get crap reception!
Have a nice day!
Conscientious people can choose to not use the phone while driving, as well. The real difference between talking to someone on the phone and talking to someone in the car is that the person with you can see when you're paying necessary attention to something else.
The reason hands-free cell phones are better than hand-held cell phones is that you don't have distracted people trying to drive with only one hand, turning corners, not signaling (not that most people signal under the best of conditions). Driving like that is as bad as driving while talking with a hands-free AND eating a sloppy burger, except they never run out of burger.
http://www.koss.com/koss/kossweb.nsf/02ProductPrin t/THEPLUG?OpenDocument Try this instead.
It's not as straightforward as that. Hands-free is better, because your driving is not physically impeded, but that's not the whole issue.
It's not just that the person is in the car with you, and can react accordingly. The real issue is about your situational awareness.. when you talk on the phone, part of your brain visualizes the other person, where they are, things like that. This detracts from your awareness of your surroundings. When someone is in the vehicle, they fit into the current situation, even if they are ignoring you or won't shut up, it's much less distracting.
Situational awareness is far, far more important than any other driving habit (signalling, staying in the lane, etc)
From what I understand the level of voice compression that T-Mobile and Cingular use is so high, because their bandwidth and capacity is so limited, that it makes everything sound like garbage. From what I understand, GSM is a great system.. just here in the U.S. it absolutely sucks ass in implementation.
.. looks like people can't -wait-. One guy who had like thirty nextel phones was tellin me that he really wanted all new equipment, and was waiting for this to happen. *shrug*
Lots and lots and lots of people have been asking me the last couple of days "what's going on with Sprint-Nextel?"
"Champagne for my real friends - and real pain for my sham friends!" http://ericblade.postalboard.com/
Yes GSM is a great system. You are right about the US implementation sucking big time. There are many reasons including:
1) Size of coverage. The US is huge, in terms of coverage, it really cannot be compared to europe, however, a counterexample is Australia, which has a lower density than the US, yet still has a pretty decent GSM system (see point 3)
2) Inefficient CODECS. The GSM standard has three different Codecs, Half Rate (HR), Full Rate (FR), and Enhanced Full Rate (EFR). HR uses Half the bandwidth of FR or EFR, and EFR uses more effiecient compression to get better quality out of the same bandwidth. Europe and the rest of the world tends to use EFR, which gives a sound quality comparable to a landline (in fact, in the early times, GSM operators had to introduce some random noise as phone users where spooked by the clarity). The US for bandwidth and other reasons use HR, which is really an emergancy codec.
3) FRequency. GSM was originally designed around the 900Mhz frequency, as this gives good range. Shortly after, the 1800Mhz frequency was added for city centers, where range is less than 900Mhz, but bandwidth is higher. European phones can switch between bands automatically, even during a call, depending on where you are. This gives a great balence between coverage and bandwidth. When GSM was permitted in US, instead of going with the rest of the world, the US choose 1900Mhz, which gives awefull range for a country the size of the US.
With the rise of popularity of GSM, the US finally permitted a Lower frequency for greater range, but instead of using the worlwide 900Mhz (the most common frequency), they introduced ANOTHER frequency, 850MHZ. This has even greater ramifications. Whilst you can get Tri Band phones that use the 900,1800,1900Mhz frequencies, the 850 and 900 is too "close" to utilise both in the same phone. SO newer American Tri Band phones use 850, 1800, 1900 Mhz, which totally ruin the use of the phone worldwide, since 1800Mhz is NOT so widely adopted, whereas 900Mhz is present in all countries with GSM.
There is some hope though. Canada which also has to utilise the 1900Mhz band, have managed to create a pretty usable GSM network for their main cities. Its still not perfect, and uses an insane number of transmitters, but when i recently visited Canada, I did get a very usable experience on GSM there, using my UK tri Band mobile.
Have a nice day!