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Like they didn't touch the GC/Wii after it got hacked: http://www.gc-linux.org/wiki/Main_Page ?

It is quite popular to make homebrew games for consoles. Just, say, google for "homebrew wii games"

Here's a

Linux distro for the Wii:

To run it, you would have to mod the console violating the DMCA.

QED.

...or you can imagine a situation where console still contain very weird innovations, but still provide a simple common layer.

Games are either manufacturer-exclusive and exploit all special bells-and-whistles (original new controller, clever usage of the steam coprocessors or whatever) or games target a special set of API and hardware capabilities that exist across all major player.

The concept is somewhat similar to what currently happens with some developing toolset that let developers cross compile software for several consoles (id software's next engine which works on PC, XBox 360 and Playstation with one single toolset is such an example).

The only difference is that current such tools are done by 3rd party, have to be acquired separately, and finally produce console-specific disc wich bundles game data with console-specific runtime layer, whereas EA's idea could be implemented if every console offered in it's firmware a "standarised environment".
It could be something similar to what smart phones (and to some extend, the interactive capabilities of high definition disc players are doing) are already doing : most of them have different and specific hardware and OS platform (Symbian, Linux, Windows CE, Palm OS, ...) but all have Java MIDP which can be targeted as a standard unified platform, it doesn't provide all the niceties of native binary but is the kind of "one target to rule them all" that developer are looking for.

In the console realm, an open-source stack based around Linux + SDL + OpenGL + some scripting language (like python's pygame. Or better Parrot Bytecode engine for more language flexibility) could provide such a unified target. Specially since some console already have linux (PS3, PS2) and other are getting it hacked in (Wii) or have already had (Xbox 360, DS, PSP (somewhat. An uCLinux proof-of-concept currently),XBox, GameCube, Dreamcast... )

Actually, in contrary of what they think, allowing linux on the consoles could somewhat drive piracy down. Currently both pirated games, linux and homebrew all share the same need to circumvent the cryptographic locks that exist inside consoles (either to crack the games, or just to be able to run their own non-signed code). So efforts are shared among all those groups.
If Linux gets an official support from companies, the linux community won't need modchips and such anymore, and in addition to commercial game developers looking for a standard platform, homebrewer will get a platform they can target too, without needing to circumvent cryptography. Thus less efforts go into the development of methods to circumvent the cryptographic lock around vendor specific platform for games.

The only draw back is that cross-platform developers targeting Linux for commercial games won't benefit any more from the copy protection provided by the cryptographic locks and will have to either invent other protections that will work on this standard platform (cue in StarFuck and all associated problems), count on log-ins for on-line games or accept risk and take into account the possibility of being easily copied.

...or you can imagine a situation where console still contain very weird innovations, but still provide a simple common layer.

Games are either manufacturer-exclusive and exploit all special bells-and-whistles (original new controller, clever usage of the steam coprocessors or whatever) or games target a special set of API and hardware capabilities that exist across all major player.

The concept is somewhat similar to what currently happens with some developing toolset that let developers cross compile software for several consoles (id software's next engine which works on PC, XBox 360 and Playstation with one single toolset is such an example).

The only difference is that current such tools are done by 3rd party, have to be acquired separately, and finally produce console-specific disc wich bundles game data with console-specific runtime layer, whereas EA's idea could be implemented if every console offered in it's firmware a "standarised environment".
It could be something similar to what smart phones (and to some extend, the interactive capabilities of high definition disc players are doing) are already doing : most of them have different and specific hardware and OS platform (Symbian, Linux, Windows CE, Palm OS, ...) but all have Java MIDP which can be targeted as a standard unified platform, it doesn't provide all the niceties of native binary but is the kind of "one target to rule them all" that developer are looking for.

In the console realm, an open-source stack based around Linux + SDL + OpenGL + some scripting language (like python's pygame. Or better Parrot Bytecode engine for more language flexibility) could provide such a unified target. Specially since some console already have linux (PS3, PS2) and other are getting it hacked in (Wii) or have already had (Xbox 360, DS, PSP (somewhat. An uCLinux proof-of-concept currently),XBox, GameCube, Dreamcast... )

Actually, in contrary of what they think, allowing linux on the consoles could somewhat drive piracy down. Currently both pirated games, linux and homebrew all share the same need to circumvent the cryptographic locks that exist inside consoles (either to crack the games, or just to be able to run their own non-signed code). So efforts are shared among all those groups.
If Linux gets an official support from companies, the linux community won't need modchips and such anymore, and in addition to commercial game developers looking for a standard platform, homebrewer will get a platform they can target too, without needing to circumvent cryptography. Thus less efforts go into the development of methods to circumvent the cryptographic lock around vendor specific platform for games.

The only draw back is that cross-platform developers targeting Linux for commercial games won't benefit any more from the copy protection provided by the cryptographic locks and will have to either invent other protections that will work on this standard platform (cue in StarFuck and all associated problems), count on log-ins for on-line games or accept risk and take into account the possibility of being easily copied.

You may think that I'm missing your point, but I get your point entirely and I agree with you about why Linux does not see widespread adoption. It is not about the price, as you allude to. The price is driven by market demand. There are a lot of factors as to why something would not see widespread adoption.

But my question is, should Linux really have widespread adoption? Anyone can purchase or download a Linux distro, but, there is a reason that they don't. It just wasn't meant for them.

I have worked with MANY people - both in higher education and the public sector - who knew nothing about the Win XP computer that they were working on. They just didn't care about it. They would blow through pop-up boxes without reading them and hardly understand why the box appeared in the first place. They were not enthusiastic about "what's under the hood" of their OS. They wouldn't know the difference between the kernel and a kernel if it blew up in their face.

Linux is a powerful O/S family that can be used in a professional and home environment, and at the same time, it allows the user to be a hobbyist (granted the right permissions.) I am not a Linux elitist*, but I think that it would be worthless to people who don't really care to learn more about their O/S and just want to drag-n-drop shit. You can't touch the Windows kernel (unless you find a buffer overrun.) Yes, you could set-up KDE or Gnome to see a GUI for those visual people, but if the user doesn't want to spend more than a minute figuring out WHY they have kdelibs or kdeutils as packages, or why they should use Bourne over Bash (or vice versa), then why bother marketing to them?

I'd love to see everyone take the time to become educated about whatever Linux flavour or Free/Net/OpenBSD, especially if it gives them a choice, rather than being stuck with Windows. But as of right now, I see a disaster occurring if Linux was sexed-up for the average user to make it work more like Windows. Imagine if all users of Windows - whom log in with full administrative rights just to check e-mail - were to do the same under Linux as root.

*I say I am not an elitist, because I do not use Linux. Surprise, surprise. My initial foray into the world of anything-but-windows started with FreeBSD, and I did not do so well. So I am starting over. I WANT to use a Linux or UNIX distribution, but I also want to approach it the right way instead of mashing buttons on the keyboard.

The article mentions you have to have a modchip to run home brew on the gamecube. Taking advantage of the way Phantasy Star Online uses internet play, you can run homebrew software directly off of your computer using an ethernet cable. I have not tested the method with homebrew games, but linux runs great.

http://www.gc-linux.org/wiki/Main_Page

I just picked up a ds lite and hope to check out linux on that too.

In fact, this is an interesting question.

If the hardware is really proved to be a souped-up GameCube hardware, then a working Beowulf cluster of Wiis might not be that far.

More interesting, it would be a wireless cluster. Neat, eh?

It's the gamecube hardware, only faster. Since Linux has been ported to the GameCube, it stands to reason it could run on Wii.

They don't have to put a computer OS on it at all, no. But it's not a dumb move to put on a popular one in the first place. It'd happen anyways.

The way I see it, Sony saves the average joe some time and effort. Sony gets more people interested in making games, or other apps, for their system which reduces costs in R&D. The Average Joe gets a new toy to play with, and rip apart (hopefully) legally. Sony gets money, We get toys and more fun, and everyone's happy.

You couldn't do that with Windows. Not unless every Xbox 360 comes with a copy of Visual Studio.

It's a smart business move.

Hardware lags behind the others.
Yawn
MONO GameBoy vs Sega GameGear
NES vs Genesis
SNES vs 32x ? CD? oh yeah 3d0 & Jaguar
n64 vs Saturn or Dreamcast or PS1
Cube vs PS2 or Xbox

Backwards Compatable.
Ok so the n64 wasn't but GB(A) always has been since SNES.The great thing about this (for N) now, all the way back to MONO tetris, nintendo has no abandonware. The whole catalog is potentially profitable, thus giving them a new weapon in their never ending battle to stop N games from being run on non-N hardware. Those patch-wearing, peg-legged, parrot-perchin, pirate bastards must be stopped.

Here is the real surprise PRICE. No Way M$ or $ony can afford to undercut these units. Same as the portable wars. GBA, SP, DS != PSP (Graphic Quality, Function, Design) But just like those old MONO GBs they are still flying off the shelves. So will this thing. My household is begging for a PS3 but we all know we'll have a Revolution first, right beside our PS2, 3 PCs, Gamecube (maybe sell the GC or Linux it http://www.gc-linux.org/

Great Ad Campaign for MS or Sony.
So you say you wanna revolution. Man you gotta change your head.

e3 Nintendo Press Unveiling with Video Stream.http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/05/17/new s_6125078.html

Yes, it will. Linux already works on the Gamecube and the Revolution will be backward-compatible.

Now they just need to get Linux on the DS working, since there's actually some fathomable reason you'd want to run that :)

I am part of the development team working on this goal and we are almost there. We have hardware guys who are working on creating an IDE interface and perhaps even USB interfaces which would open up a world of endless peripherals. I am doing a lot of kernel driver work to get these devices supported.

We have Linux with full networking/sound/3D support. The only thing we have yet to complete is external storage. I will be receiving an SD card HW interface in the mail within a week so I will write a kernel driver for that. If you want to keep up with the development, head to gc-linux.org or join #gc-linux on irc.oftc.net

Mplayer works fine, and you can see some more useless screenshots here. Snes9x has also been ported, as well as a couple other emulators (MAME and some neogeo emulator for example). Other than that I haven't found much use for it except for the geek-factor, the memory is too limited to do anything heavy... But playing SNES games on the cube is pretty sweet though.

Mplayer works fine, and you can see some more useless screenshots here. Snes9x has also been ported, as well as a couple other emulators (MAME and some neogeo emulator for example). Other than that I haven't found much use for it except for the geek-factor, the memory is too limited to do anything heavy... But playing SNES games on the cube is pretty sweet though.

And Linux runs on it.

yes they did, there's a website for it here

looks pretty cool, and prolly fulfils the reqs for this article

People want computers to be appliances which they don't have to maintain, like a toaster, but they also want to be able to take their toaster and install a coffee maker, microwave and washing machine in it at will. I don't believe it's possible to have an appliance computer thats flexible enough for most users to use as their desktop machine. Although it's easy enough to do - stick the OS on a read only device along with any programs you want and make the storage device for the user's data non-executable - there's almost nothing they can do to break it then... but I wouldn't want to use that kind of system.

I think you've just hit on the perfect solution - I know of an appliance-style home computer people regularly use, with read-only application space, and great (or at least good enough for gaming) graphics support...

Lot's of people have them... Games consoles...

If someone invested a small amount of effort (like the linux-xbox or GameCube Linux people have done) to create and package an application disk for each app for the console, we could have the ultimate pc...

I don't know if either of those consoles have USB ports like the PS2 does, but if they do, that becomes your wireless kb and personal data storage solution...

But rather than the usual system of booting linux, and leaving the usage up to the user, we use the game console paradigm... One disk per application set, and game-styled menus to select between apps on a single disk...

This could enable someone to produce a string of $20 application disks, and turn a cheap home pc into a reality...

Maybe Ballmer was right... Cheap Hardware + Free Software == less Piracy!

No I disagree. Sure your hacker come programmer could put together a gamecube solution but first theres the problem of gamecube SDK (if your not an official developer you break license) Here's the gnu toolkit, but that's it. There are enthusiasts that want to try their hand at consoles closer to the metal than gamecube, ps2 or xbox. I can think of a lot of good AUS, NZ and UK programmers who cut their teeth as ankle biters on (expensive) Acorns, Sinclairs, Apple][ etc, hooked up to tv's. This is simply the latest example.

This is where Lamonthe's idea comes in, sell cheap hardware to code against. It looks like he's giving you known hardware to code with that can spit out to any tv system (seacam, pal) with access to additional hardware like PS2 controllers. The other thing is that the system is embedded. No drives, os .. just you the code. Try that with gamecube.

for example your code might be something like

• ...
• 
  Init Hardware
  Init API
  JMP MAIN
  your_code ...

i must admit I've spent enough on Lamonthe books to keep him in plenty of pizza and look foward to reading more from his programming ideas. You can read a good interview here.

No I disagree. Sure your hacker come programmer could put together a gamecube solution but first theres the problem of gamecube SDK (if your not an official developer you break license) Here's the gnu toolkit, but that's it. There are enthusiasts that want to try their hand at consoles closer to the metal than gamecube, ps2 or xbox. I can think of a lot of good AUS, NZ and UK programmers who cut their teeth as ankle biters on (expensive) Acorns, Sinclairs, Apple][ etc, hooked up to tv's. This is simply the latest example.

This is where Lamonthe's idea comes in, sell cheap hardware to code against. It looks like he's giving you known hardware to code with that can spit out to any tv system (seacam, pal) with access to additional hardware like PS2 controllers. The other thing is that the system is embedded. No drives, os .. just you the code. Try that with gamecube.

for example your code might be something like

• ...
• 
  Init Hardware
  Init API
  JMP MAIN
  your_code ...

i must admit I've spent enough on Lamonthe books to keep him in plenty of pizza and look foward to reading more from his programming ideas. You can read a good interview here.

And how Phantasy Star Online lead to GameCube Linux via the Nintend0 Broadband adapter.

http://www.gc-linux.org/

No, but it can run Linux

Is it just me, or is that a little bit...strange? They cost $180 before the price drop, and then they cost $150 afterwards. It's not that much of a difference, is it? Certainly not enough to merit twice as many people rushing out and buying one...what kind of consumer thinks, ooh, I'd always wanted a PS2 but, y'know, they were just thirty dollars too expensive for me? I guess this is the same mentality that wouldn't hesitate to buy something that costs $19.99 but would flinch at anything costing a flat $20, because it's too expensive.

To be honest, I think it's just you. =]

Everyone has a reserve price for a product on the market. Sure, $30 may not seem like much, but I have always had the mentality that I won't pay more than $150 for a gaming system. (Note: I still won't be buying a PS2) If you think $30 isn't much, perhaps it's because you're thinking in absolute terms? $30 is a full 1/6 of the original price. That's a 16.7% off the original price. Look at it that way. If you got 16.7% off the purchase of a car, I'm sure you'd be more likely to purchase it as well!

I had a teacher once who was very adamant on that point. We don't need pennies, he would say. Pennies are a waste of metal. We need to take pennies out of circulation. Someone would invariably ask about things that cost $19.99. Well, we'd raise their price to $20, fool, he would say. This makes sense to me--and it made sense to him, but I imagine that a lot of people wouldn't be able to handle it. The economy would collapse. A very large segment of the population considers $19.99 to be a hell of a lot cheaper than $20. On the PS2 front, these same people are ecstatic about the gigantic price drop and buy twice as many of the things as they bought before.

Is there actual research to back that up? I mean, I don't think there are that many people who think $.01 makes a huge difference. Typically the "xx.99" philosophy only refers to low-cost, low-prestige items, IIRC. I don't think PS2 falls into that category.

This could be a very interesting pricing strategy for video game console manufacturers: 1. Debut the console at a price point of something like $300. 2. Every three to six months thereafter (the timeframe could easily be extended or shortened) drop the price by, say, $10. 3. Laugh as sales nearly double right after doing this. 4. Repeat until console has saturated market.

Except, demand for game consoles is rarely that elastic.

This reminds of the GameCube thing that happened a while ago. I believe it was last summer that Nintendo had a deal going with the Cube: Buy a $150 GameCube, and you get a free $50 game. Well, this was quite a deal, but sales were stagnant. Some months later, the marketing geniuses at the big N decided to adopt a new tactic: Buy a $100 GameCube, and you don't get anything for free. Lo and behold, sales shot up. Why? Well, obviously, because now it's fifty dollars cheaper!!! Never mind that you have to buy a game to play the stupid thing, it's just a better deal.

There are other things to consider. You could buy a gamecube and rent games. You could use it to run linux. You could buy a used game for $30. All of these are less expensive that the original $150 tag. And $100 is 33% off the original price.

How stupid is the average shopper?

Depends, most are not that intelligent in my experience. However, I don't there is really anything shocking about this drop in price vs. double in sales.

This problem is similar to the Y2K issue. The coder's simply used 3 digits to store how many blocks were available on the memory card. When you have a card with 1000+ blocks, overflows start happening.

I don't know where the GC Linux team got this info, but if they can find it then developers should have access to is. About a quarter of the way down this page (Section 9.7 Memory Cards) is a list of memory cards including the 8MB Memory Card 1019 and others like the MC 507 and the MC 2043 which don't currently exist. Developers should have at least allowed for 4 digits for block size to be compatible with these psuedo-announced peripherals.

Its all because of Linux. Viva the Revolution!!!

Not yet! ;-)
It won't be long though... Just put the pieces (1, 2) together, hehe....

but they have turned the gamecube into a linux machine.

well part way. It is running 2.6.1 goto http://www.gc-linux.org/down/dmesg.txt
first few lines say
Total memory = 23MB; using 64kB for hash table (at c01c0000) Linux version 2.6.1 (mist@l) (gcc version 3.3) #5 Tue Feb 3 00:30:18 CET 2004

I keep trying the 192.168.0.47 address that this screenshot shows for the GameCube server but I just get my crappy obsolete DreamCast webserver :o(

I can't wait to get KDE 3.2 on this thing. Then I will have a GameKube.

Actualy, they are, check out the screenshot

I couldn't play my Nintendo games on a Nintendo 64 out-of-the-box, and I surely can't play them on a GameCube.

You will be able to Soon.

well in that case what about this! ;-)

Click on the gc-linux link results in a very strange error message from the server:


You have probably reached this page in error.

If you were attempting to reach a site that's domain ends in .sourceforge.net, it is likely that your browser is not HTTP/1.1 compliant. This may be because you're running a very old version of MSIE or Netscape.

Please upgrade your browser and try again.
Please Click Here


By the way I'm using Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20030225