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Maybe AL can clear this up. I don't think prior art would apply because Sealand never actually became a datacenter per se.

The Principality of Sealand is the micro country that houses HavenCo.. I think Google's idea is different, starting with the energy system. Besides, I hardly think this quallifies as a data center. Even if nowadays is completely restored and operational I just can't find that much similarities among them.

Am I the only one reminded of Havenco?
Basically, they are a datacenter running on an old WW2 defense tower in northern england, with armed guards, no copyright laws, "self-declared sovereign nation" etc etc...

That also sounds an awful lot like Cryptonomicon, too, but hey.

The Principality of Sealand is a non-DMCA country. However, it's information services are government regulated and specifically exclude activities such as:

        * No pornography that would be considered illegal within the EU.
        * No infringement of copyright. This includes warez sites and listing sites that index copyrighted material.
        * No SPAM or unsolicited advertising, including opt-out e-mail lists.
        * No hacking including port scans or network vulnerability testing, distributing viruses, phishing sites.
        * No material that is obscene, threatening, abusive, libelous, or encourages conduct that would constitute a criminal offense.

You have a few options, the first being Havenco in the micro-nation of Sealand, which is an old WWII off shore platform that claims sovereignty. They have not, however, been recognized by other states, leaving their international legal status in limbo. They do claim, however, to not be under the jurisdiction of other nations laws.

Your second and cheaper option is hosting via Tor network. There are a few blogs and other sites hosted via Tor, although there are some technical difficulties involved.

Be aware, if your privacy blog angers a powerful entity such as China, they can choose to just block all traffic to your site, rather than forcing your site offline.

HavenCo does just that. I wonder what the impending sale, sorry, transfer will do to their business, but the numbers that the Spanish estate agent is supposed to ask according to Wikipedia are insane.

I can't even see Saudi oil dollars go for that other than as some private airfield near the UK.

Don't forget, this platform is incapable of sustaining itself so isolating it isn't hard unless they started thinking about wave and wind power generation (but that still doesn't cater for the humans on board). It means everything has to be transported in.

Then again, if you've got the cash to pay for it I guess the upkeep won't be that much to worry about..

So now they want to try their hand at web hosting, do they?

They tried their hand at web hosting years ago, during the original dot com boom. As the summary says, that's "in the past". The URL of the company providing it is http://havenco.com. That site used to have pictures of their facilities on Sealand, seems all that's left now is a hosting company, not saying anything about where the physical location of their servers is.

Well - if the island is formed close to another chain of islands, whoever lays claim to the original chain, probably by default has claim to the new one simply due to proximity.

However being able to occupy and defend this island is only part of the ability to claim it, because the governing organization of the island must also be recognized by other governments as being the official governing body for that area of land. Anyone can say they are an independent sovereign nation-state, but even if they have the guns to back it up, it doesn't do much good unless they are recognized by other sovereign states.

Since this is NOT the first time in history that a volcano has produced a new island, I am willing to bet that there is either previous common law on the subject, or there are treaties that have been signed by the majority of states on this specific issue. Any international attorneys in the house?

A few sources of information of relevant subjects:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conch_republic (Key West, FL ceding from the USA)
and
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sealand
http://www.wired.com/news/business/0,1367,36749,00 .html
http://www.havenco.com/

If Google kept their servers in space, or on the moon, or somewhere where no country really has claim, could they just ignore any request by any government to hand over data?

It already exists, and it's called Sealand.

maybe they should get hosting with HavenCo?

See now, if they did come out with this, I think I would be torn between using GDrive and HavenCo for my off-site backup.

I guess it all depends if I feel particularly tin-foil-hatty that day or not.

If you succeeded, you'd be bombed out of existence within the week.

More likely though, you'd wind up like Sealand. Have you heard any news about HavenCo in the last few years? I haven't. The website claims they're fully operational, but the update mark is from 2003.

Is it possible to host a datacentre out at sea?

To listen to them talk, Sealand's HavenCo is already there and what you're looking for.

Is it possible to host a datacentre out at sea?

Yes. See http://www.sealandgov.com/ and http://www.havenco.com/

Yeah, but have you seen the prices?

You could always try HavenCo. It's located in Sealand and appears to be pretty much off limits to near enough everyone.

I wonder if Havenco could figure out a way to operate on one (or more) of these, at least until the US Star Wars program deploys a working orbital laser weapon to knock it out (and at least then, we'd know!).

Try HavenCo, based in the principality of Sealand.

It's already happened: http://www.havenco.com/

http://www.havenco.com/

Has their soverignty, specifically their exclusive jurisdiction over the operations of HavenCo, been tested positive by an international court, or in defense of a suit brought in a foreign jurisdiction, like the USA or UK?

That's absolutely ridiculous - but gives (to me personally) credibility that Indymedia is seen as a force of change.

Word has it that they're going to move to Sealand/Havenco - Take that UK!

...Sealand. Which is an independent monarchy just off the East Coast of the UK.

It runs as its (only) business, Havenco which is a totally anonymous secure web data center.

It seems that the small-government Republicans have their priorities in order: destroy liberty first, then maybe do something about terrorism (after pracising some heavy borrow-and-spend).

Unacceptable publications include, but are not limited to:

Material that is unlawful in the jurisdiction of the server. For instance, if a customer's machine is hosted on Sealand by HavenCo, content which is illegal in Sealand may not be published or housed on that server. Sealand's laws prohibit child pornography. Sealand currently has no regulations regarding copyright, patents, libel, restrictions on political speech, non-disclosure agreements, cryptography, restrictions on maintaining customer records, tax or mandatory licensing, DMCA, music sharing services, or other issues; child pornography is the only content explicitly prohibited. At the present time, child pornography is not precisely defined; HavenCo is obeying rules similar to those of the United States, specifically a prohibition on any depiction of those under 18 in a sexual context.

Sealand would be the place. Although its doubtful they could repel invasion if the British Government decided it was worth the cost of sending a Battleship to sort them out. It exists largely because its not worth the money to kick them out as yet not because they have any special protection or protected rights.

What surprises me the most about all of this, is that no one has bothered to make use of Sealand's co-location service. It undoubtedly costs an arm and a leg, but it's certainly not an easy target for a raid.

So how come we don't see torrent search engines popping up in safer locations, like Havenco? The MPAA would literally have to hire mercenaries to take down the server, and there's a pretty good chance that Havenco has spent a little money on defending Sealand from attacks like this.

Relocate the server to some small island in international waters or some country that doesn't give a Flying...ya know... about U.S. laws like North Korea.

Such as HavenCo.

Why start your own nation at sea when you can invade an already existing one?

http://www.sealandgov.com/

Plus Havenco's servers are already there and connected to the internet so no need to worry about bringing your own computer and aquiring an internet connection.

http://www.havenco.com/

There is of course another way to get around just about any patent that no one ever seems to talk about. Set up shop in Sealand. For those not in the know Sealand is an abandonned British military platform about the size of a football field in the middle of the ocean. And it just so happens that it is located in international waters. Established in 1967 by some British guy with a boat, it provides the ideal setting for those not interested in complying with IP laws. This is because they don't have any. None, natha, zero. They don't honor anyone else's either. Which is handy. If I am not mistaken, Havenco is located there as well.

Or you could just use Sealand

You mean like HavenCo, on the principality of Sealand?

(You can read a lot more about Sealand over at the Wikipedia article.)

Perhaps a place like Sealand, and their hosting company HavenCo, where only three things are illegal: child pornography, spam, and hacking.

This is defintely a case where the services of Sealand and their hosting services would be useful. It's sickening to see how these corporate bandits can lift stories from the wealth of the public domain, exploit them, then not ever have to contribute back their own derived works (think Disney, Snow White, etc).

I think that it means that you're HavenCo.

As long as servers stay on land belonging to a government

Looks like Havenco is still around...

What I'd like to know is why Indymedia still trusts Rackspace with its hosting. If my colo was refusing to tell me what's going on in a situation like this, I would think about moving my servers elsewhere, preferably overseas. I realize Rackspace is probably under a gag order, but frankly that wouldn't make me feel much better.

It's not actually an oil platform as described. It's an abandoned offshore military base dating back to WWII. And yes, HavenCo's computers really are kept there, though they call it a "showcase datacenter" these days.

FYI, not on an abandoned oil rig, but I think you're thinking of HavenCo on Sealand.

The bussiness side of SEALAND is the Royal Bank(which is a front for a swiss bank) and data haven called "HavenCO" . Some photos of the principlality of SEALAND. More photos I wonder where they keep the actual data servers and if data resident outside of a country is protected by the countries laws???

This place was referred to in the Wiki article via the link to HavenCo. HavenCo sounds like it's free of any type of outside infringement. Cool.

Sealand? Has only one law; child porn is banned, punishable by exile (one law on their entire statute; this isn't just their only porn law, it is their one and only law at all, the entirely of their legal system). CF. HavenCo AUP - Unacceptable publications.

Let's cut to the chase and stop all the bellyaching....

Consider the existence of an ISP that offers 100% encrypted, 100% unlogged Internet access....

Kiddie porn is the only content not allowed at HavenCo but if everything flowing through such an ISP there is encrypted, they wouldn't be able to tell.

I am not advocating kiddie porn but this issue is the only drawback to my idea.

Chances are someone might take the plunge and set up such an ISP or may have done so already....

The RIAA / MPAA / BSA will be quaking in their boots if this becomes a reality. They would then pressure 'the powers that be' to unplug HavenCo from the Internet permenantly.

Anybody remember that independant island/country/state named havenco, which is situated off the coast of the United Kingdom? That is setup specifically for this type of subversion, butit costs $$$$$, and is well worth it. There is no chance of them taking the site down unless Apple were to hire a gun ship to go in and force the situation, and I hardly doubt that will happen because havenco has guns too!

I'm convinced that a promising business venture would be a non-US ISP which would sell IPSec tunnels to anyone. The termination point would be outside the US and would preserve privacy

You took the words right out of my mouth. However, I think that HavenCo on the Principality of Sealand may have beaten you to the punch. However, I think that there is some question as to their sovereignty as a nation.

Provided that they have the proper bandwidth to handle this, I'd love to proxy most of my communications through them (or anyone offshore). It's a wrothy business idea to set up a pay proxy. Insert your Cryptonomicon parallel here.

Sealand is a small platform off the east coast of England. It claims to be an independant country, and hasn't signed the Berne Convention on copyright. Theoretically you could distribute copyrighted material from there. Handily, it is home to HavenCo, a hosting company.

Digex, along with other major hosting and co-lo facilities, has had these kinds of systems in place for their datacenters for many a year. And yeah, most of them look like very non-descript office buildings - a great many I've seen are in warehouse-style industrial complexes, far off the beaten path of regular office space and retail properties.

You have to wonder if they're a little overboard, though; the military doesn't typically have checks that secure to get into specific rooms - not even TS/SCI environments. Though, to be fair, the military certainly has an edge on physical security.

I guess if you're really concerned about your data being physically secure, you could always co-lo out at Sealand, too.

"Also prevent you from copying banknotes. There's a pattern of dots in a specific shad of yellow on banknotes which is recognised by the photocopier (and presumably also by PhotoShop), which rejects the copy. A mate of mine did some research into it, and it's possible to draw a picture using a yellow(ish) pen that'll be refused, if you know the dot pattern"

Back in the late 80s/early 90s, I was working for a well known copier/fax/printer manufacturer on the team creating self diagnostic ROMS for the equipment and can remember the fun we all had when working with the (then) new colour laser copiers - opening desk drawers and 100,000 of twenties etc. Back then it was entirely a case of hardware/optics limitations affecting the copy - not got to the stage of deliberately restricting copy content! (and yes, they were spendable)

Unfortunately these days I only get to write win32 stuff, but it would be interesting to get some ROM dumps and check out what's going on :) Maybe a cottage industry in it: www.getyour.copiermods.com (fake) :)

must go check out hosting options in Sealand...

You need to host that site elsewhere. Maybe even HavenCo. BlackBoxVoting is far too important for the future of the United States. We can't have it going offline every week.