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Google's Floating Datahaven
PDG writes "Google has pending plans to take its data centers off-shore, literally. By moving their data centers to floating barges in international waters, they are able to save money on taxes and electricity (using wave based power) as well as reside their operations outside the jurisdiction of governments. There is mention of hurricane and other caveats, but I wonder how they plan to get a bandwidth pipe large enough and still be reliable. Seems like a chapter out of a Neal Stephenson novel." You might recall earlier discussions on the same subject.
Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer announces a multi-billion dollar investment in a fleet of submarines.
Rich And Stupid is not so bad as Working For Rich And Stupid.
Excellent, there won't be collateral damage, should one of the governments want to get rid of it.
Patents Drive Free Software as Hurricanes Drive Construction Industry
You see, Neal was born in 2014, he was only allowed to come back in time if he wrote some 'science fiction' novels that would cover up the fact he was a time traveller by just making him look like he made some lucky guesses.
Google satellites of course!
My ism, it's full of beliefs.
Pirates.
I hope Google is willing to defend those datacenters by themselves in international waters... it would be a shame if they were sunk !
From the article it's clear that they want to patent the idea.
I don't understand that. What's the use of a patent if somebody infringing it is also in international waters and not bounded to patent law?
Well it's called google, and now they want to be immune from laws.
I don't think they could legally be allowed to abscond with our data.
oh wait, according to the eula, they own our data, right?
They're using their grammar skills there.
I can't wait until they start burying pirated DVDs and stolen WoW cards in the islands on the coast of New England. Just imagine a bunch of digital pirates raiding an off-shore data center. Hilarious.
No, I haven't had my coffee this morning, not yet.)
- Floating cities. ...
- Navies and marines to defend their floating cities.
-
- Profit, and world domination!
It's like the Principality of Sealand
It's situated on an old abandoned British island fortress from WWII
Shameless plug alert: Game server control panel
This is a bad dupe at best.
From what I heard was that Google was thinking of putting these in ports as mobile data centers.
Putting them off shore would cause more problems than it would solve.
1. Power. Wave power? Not with a barge. You might get a small part of you power from waves but not a lot.
2. Bandwidth. Fiber is fast everything else is slow. Running a fiber line out to a barge is iffy at best.
3. Weather.
Now if you could put one on say an offshore drilling rig that might work. If you used stranded natural gas for power and sea water for cooling it might make a little sense.
See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
if they have any plans to deal with corrosive salts from the oceans?
Should be interesting.
The ships still have to be registered somewhere, and will pa y taxes there. I suspect that if Mongolian registry will become much more expensive if they think there's a profit potential there. The same applies with Libya and Panama and a few other such registrars. And, if you own the land side of the uwave link, you can tax it however you like.
I suppose that could be offset against energy/cooling costs and ground rent, but ... I'm pretty sure that in terms of square feet, a yacht costs more than an apartment.
Forget taxes. What about when a person is required for maintenance? (For example: ship electrical systems) You will need more manpower as a land-based server farm, but now you have to have living quarters or several fast boats to get your people from the shore to the boat. I bet Google was just patenting this idea for patents sake.
http://hardware.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/09/06/1755216&from=rss
Out of the paws of bureaucrats!
...tomorrow space will become the next place to host their data centers, and then they'll start colonizing worlds and start being referred to as "the company"
-- Sex is the antonym of pringles. Once you pop it's time to stop.
[..] but I wonder how they plan to get a bandwidth pipe large enough and still be reliable.
I don't think a pipe on the bottom of the ocean is your biggest concern when you put hundreds of thousands of computers on a man made island, exposed to possible tsunamis and hurricanes.
And while we're at it, have they thought of the possibility of terrorist attacks? If they're outside any jurisdiction, they also have no military power to protect them from planes, boats, subs and whatnot.
Full Tilt
I have visions of "Google-Stars" orbiting the earth, modelled after the Star Wars Death Stars. These will agther and beam the sum of Earth's knowledge. Plus they will be pollution-free running on abundant solar power above the clouds. Google will have their own private space fleet to service these. Google already leases NASA-Ames to run their private jets, and Sergey will be an experienced Cosmonaut in two years.
This is one way of reigning in high labor costs. Ships "at sea" are not under any countrys particular jurisdiction. If the "crew" [IT Folks] want better pay, too bad, they can be let off at the next port, etc.
There is no bargaining, no standard rules , no "unions", etc.
We need some pirates, ASAP.
Is proof positive that you are a TOTAL FREAKING DORK!!!
Get a clue!
A real chapter from a Neal Stephenson novel would have many more obscure references, at least one reference to the protagonist's badassery, and 12-18 other plotlines.
Something like TFA says Sun has investigated thinking about putting their computers in coal mines, quote:
Sun Microsystems plans to send its computers down an abandoned coal mine, using water from the ground as a coolant.
[/sarcasm]
Erm, considering that national boundaries extend 12 miles from the mainland, that's hardly international.
America, Home of the Brave.
It would need its own defensive and offensive systems. Basically this floating data center is also a floating target. I could imagine a well placed "torpedo" accidently being discharged and watch the floating gold mine bubble its way down to the depths of the ocean
Seriously though how are they going to protect themselves. I think Prime Target pretty much sums it up. Will they employ a private security force?
is now the U.S.S.A.
Cordially,
Kilgore Trout
can be done with rolling seas..
You send something to the sea floor and secure it
the raising of the whole ship based on wave motion can drive a flywheel..... the displacement of the ship generates a LOT of power....
every day http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Random
What will be the true cost of this exercise?
Sea water is not a benign substance, it eats away at stuff, particularly metal, that gets submerged in it. Where and how do they plan to repaint the hulls of said vessels? What about the replacement of parts, such as the sacrifical anode?
One of the big problems with propeller driven electricity generation from sea water movement is the maintenance cost. In the end, you're just throwing metal into the ocean and getting electricity in return.
If the idea is to put them in international waters so they don't have to pay tax, etc, will they be allowed to be registered in a specific country and thus fly a flag or will they denied registration and thus be branded priates? (Given the wealth of Google, I'm sure they could "buy" a flag from some small sea faring country.) But what happens when the USA decides "you're doing this to avoid paying us tax revenue, if you dock at american ports for service, etc, be prepared.."
And I'm sure there are many many more curve balls to this issue than I've touched on above...
No one ever considers the fact that if you exist outside of National jurisdiction, you're fair game. It's a sad fact of the nation-state, but still very much real.
meh
Is it now perfectly okay to post a duplicate story with no new information as long as you link to the old one?
The ocean has unlimited cooling potential! The water constantly flows, so you don't have to worry about pumping it around, although you could pump it through the ship with ease, I'm sure. How hot does the ocean get on a good day? 80 degrees?
Already have defensive flotillas around them. Not.
From scarped cliff or quarried stone she cries "A thousand types are gone, I care for nothing, no not one."
I don't seem to understand the whole tax thing. If you catch fish in international waters, you still pay tax in a port, right? I bet that the whole tax advantage will be extremely short lived. Governments are experts at getting your tax money. I foresee a connection-tax (I invented that name) for any data-cable crossing a coastline. For the cooling, it is a good idea. In open seas there is no limit (and no regulation on the amount of cooling water you can take in, whereas such limits/regulations exist at many coastlines of developed countries. the cooling is the main energy consumption of data centers. Therefore, the ships will not need too much energy, and the wave power generators will not need to be as huge as some might think (data centers use up to 50 MW sometimes, but that's mainly cooling).
That they could have done it with a simple diver, and yet, they took the expensive approach. Somehow buying a fleet of subs would be in MS's mind set.
I've heard they will be using the barges to anchor the space elevator too.
While I'm sure Google are looking into this I can't see it happening anytime soon. It's hard enough to run a massive data centre on land let alone run one that is bobbing up and down on the ocean all the time. I can't believe for one minute that this is the cheapest thing that would work.
In reality I imagine this is just an idea that was mooted and a couple of guys have looked into the feasibility to it. If you're as big as Google you can afford to look into hair brained ideas. If one sticks you make another fortune.
I used to have a better sig but it broke.
as 'outside government jurisdiction'. A ship HAS to be registered and carry the flag of SOME nation, and it will be subject to the laws of that country. So a ship is no more or less outside the law than if you built your data center in that country.
Supposing someone has a ship which is NOT registered anywhere, then it is essentially 'fair game'. If say the US didn't like what you're doing they can just sail on up and do whatever they want with you. They could certainly board and seize any such vessel, after all who's going to object? In theory there might be some construction of maritime law that provides some protections, but without a government capable of objecting you're basically SOL.
So, there would be no consideration on Google's part of evasion of law. Possibly a way to choose a regulatory regime you like, but that's about it. Plus remember any large corporation is pretty much held hostage to its investors, insurance requirements, financing, and ultimately to whatever nations it has substantial business interests in.
"Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem." -- Jefferson
with blackjack and hookers. Hell, forhget the blackjack.
would be to locate in Alaska and power it with the new geothermal set ups that they are investing into.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
The internet has to run on tubes from out in the ocean, right?
The more likely people you'd want to be legally protected against wouldn't be say the US govt, it would be people that might not like what you're doing. International waters, privacy laws? What privacy laws? Nice safe place to do people's dirty work for them and never have to answer for it.
Anyway, as someone else pointed out, these things would be docked in a port. Frankly I think they'll find it would make just as much sense to just put up a building next to the ocean...
"Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem." -- Jefferson
Yarr give me all yer copper I say!
Which would also include any privacy provisions. Heh, offshore datahavens will also have no protection against pirates, possibly hired by a certain government or two.
What?
Does anyone in the government see this as a potential threat to national security. With all the data Google has and carries, I wouldn't want it made available in International Waters.
Why don't they just make like COBRA and create their own island, a la the comics? It would work better, and they may even be able to garner UN representation, unlike that little British Island the crown still lays claim toward...
You can get some energy from the wave, but believing this is going to be cost efficient against, say, buying it from the grid is a bit ridiculous. No they won't save anything on energy doing that.
If they do save something, it's at most the cost of transporting energy from offshore to onshore, as any other saving would be arbitraged away.
Getting data and money off the hands of criminal organizations (aka governments) is a much more interesting consequence.
\u262D = \u5350
Slashdot needs to re-run the "Most Frequently Pirated" Poll, adding this Data-Barge to the list.
1) What country will they be flagged under?
2) Will the international community hold that country accountable if the Good Ship GooglePlex starts doing things that are "evil" in the eyes of a more powerful country?
Seriously, if they fly under the flag of a small country, what's to stop China from threatening the small country if Google tries to actively evade the Great Firewall? What's to stop the US Government from threatening sanctions if Google stops cooperating with Washington?
On the other hand, if it flies under the flag of a country that's too big to sanction, then it's still at the mercy of that country's government.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
And PIRATES! AAARRRR!
International waters is not anarchy.
Governments raid pirate radio stations in international waters all the time.
If you ran a hash barge just off the coast of Jersey, the feds would still raid it.
And if the Chinese don't like something being hosted on one of Google's barges, they would raid it.
- eco terrorists will target the barges as sources of heat pollution in the oceans
- google will get protective boats
- google will get protective subs (and trained dolphins)
- google will get attack helocopters
We welcome our new Google overlords who will do no worng.
Hurricanes/Typhoons yes. Tsunamis No-- the destructive power of a tsunami is directly related to the shape of the shoreline where it strikes. The wave of a tsunami in the open ocean is not likely even to be noticed.
On Phobos.
Trust me, you don't want to meet Brin's descendants.
Big, mean and UGLY.
MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
"In an attempt to address the problem, Microsoft has investigated building a data centre in the cold climes of Siberia"
Note to self -- Pay for next copy of Windows.
Google has pending plans...
Nonsense. Google has a patent application. Which means that someone, somewhere, inside Google had this nifty idea, and a patent search thought it might be original. In corporations these days, the standing instructions are that if an idea is patentable, patent it - even if it is stupid or appears unworkable. This idea may be no more than bullshit round the water cooler.
Corporations want to build up a big patent portfolio. Financial types see that as good, which ups the stock price. And they want lots of patents in their pocket for when you get to a patent shoot-out (or to be so dangerous that one is pre-empted. The idea is that when someone accuses you of infringing a patent, you dump a huge pile of patents on the table and say "I bet you're infringing one of these".
So this article is a massive hype from a straw in the wind. Google is always thinking about datacentres, and this is a patent on an original, if not vary practical, thought.
Consciousness is an illusion caused by an excess of self consciousness.
why bother floating?? fill it full some non conductive fluid (flourcarbons, etc.), dip it in plastic and sink it. Run cables out to it, don't bother fixing failing servers, etc. When it gets to the point of over half failing bring it up and junk it. very cold a few hundred meters down, make sure heat transfer is easy (and doesn't need pumps)
So will Google have to have armed guards to shoot pirates? Is killing people to protect your servers considered "evil" ?
“Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
Its the first step of their coup d'etat - build a navy right under our noses. Do you think its a coincidence they started this project right before our elections? With all the challenges making floating data centers infeasible, why else build them? Once they control the US, they can conquer the world. Then they can begin the arduous process of indexing everything. Sure, you laugh now, but will you be laughing when we are subjects of the Google Empire. Begun the Google Wars have.
If a company can truly do this, I bet it's been done before. (Waiting for examples.)
tsunamis are only dangerous in shallow water
In deep water a tsunami is barely noticeable. Your boat gently raises a foot to two and then sinks back.
Is'nt that on wikipedia or something ?
A reasonably fast boat can do maybe 25 mph... so just anchor the thing 12 miles from a major city (say San Francisco) in half an hour, then ferry people out in shifts. Have some minimal facilities aboard for when weather doesn't allow the boat to get through, and you're set. This is no big deal, really.
"He who would learn astronomy, and other recondite arts, let him go elsewhere. " -- John Calvin, commenting on Genesis 1
"Google and The Pirate Bay team up to provide off-shore copyright-free hosting of content."
*sigh*...perchance to dream...
See "HTTP status codes": http://www.w3.org/Protocols/rfc2616/rfc2616-sec10.html
No sig today...
The Principality of Sealand have already tried extranational data centres : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HavenCo
Everyone laughs, but that doesn't change reality. Reality is that when you have a huge corporation with most of its assets tied up in advanced technology, then you have to pay to keep it protected.
If you move the technology off-shore to avoid taxes, then you lose the protection that those taxes provide. Both from criminals and from the police that are being paid by the taxes that your land-based operations incur. Does Google plan to hire Blackwater (the world's largest mercenary army) to keep people away from their floating data centers?
There is also the question of getting the money to build these floating structures. As I write on Monday morning Sept 15 2008, the banking structure of the USA is collapsing. The stock market is falling and several of the largest banks of the USA have declared bankruptcy. No banks means no capital for expansion. Granted this isn't such a big issue when Google has such a large stock value, but that stock value is mostly based on speculation and Google's price could fall as fast as it rose.
There is also the question of scale. One can claim that a huge data center could be powered by wave energy; it's another thing to actually do it. Especially when you are a public corporation and have to answer to entities that hold huge blocks of your stock.
Google is a company with an oversupply of young over-educated technological Grade-Point Angels (people whose most singular talent is to convince their teachers to give them high grades in order that the teachers will be able to reflect in their angel's glory). These people have a tendency to actually believe their fantasies, especially the fantasies that involve both ecology and advanced technology.
This factor has to be considered in all of their press releases and corporate projections.
"...as well as reside their operations outside the jurisdiction of governments [...] but I wonder how they plan to get a bandwidth pipe large enough and still be reliable."
And that's the problem - eventually, at some point, the data has to go back to the US (or wherever the nearest country to the barge is located) at which point the data will come under the jurisdiction of said government. If it's not covered under the law already, you can be sure they'll put something in that will allow them to go sniffing at that pipe as normal.
"If you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all"
"International waters: the land that law forgot."
Saying "I'll probably get modded down for this" in a post is the best way to get it modded up.
So if the data centers are in international waters, who is to say Google can't *sell* your data from international waters..? Or, otherwise do something else fishy with it?
Sounds like the perfect setup for doing some shady stuff to me.
Mesh Network. Take a key from OLPC. Locate connection points in on coastal areas in all available locations and then mesh between the floating centers.
.
Since when did a barge floating offshore become a sovereign nation?
They only have to go 12 miles, line of site. So say they go 20 for good measure. There are plenty of very high bandwidt solutions for that. Or they can run fiber. Of course whatever country their trunk lies in might have more than a wee bit of leverage with regard to how they conduct business and to whom taxes are paid.
I can imagine every city, country and state taxing the shit out of Google for them to haul their powerlines into any country.
So, they'd be free to take the massive amounts of data they've collected and use it for whatever purposes they see fit without fear of government repercussion? Shouldn't entities like Google who have the power to influence us all have to be accountable to a government? Doesn't anyone else have a problem with this? Not to mention, the data they have may be useful to a hostile force. Would you really want data like that to get hijacked and abused?
BeauHD. Worst editor since kdawson.
Once you can have an economy which survives based on net revenue and is HINDERED by government controls and protections the next step is to have a nation which disavows any outside responsability and reject international treaties about intellectual property.
Such a nation would gain adherents from all people who wish to have no reprecussions, or controls on their research and be able to use ALL available technologies.
The products from such a society would be vastly superior because of reverse engineering producing cutting costs of development.
I think if such a society is able to exist (it would kind of piss everyone off to have their idea stolen all the time) the other countries can't help but follow.
my 2c, sci fi future prediction whatever.
I wonder if it will do anything to help phishing...
Google needs to talk to the owners of sealand in england and buy out their partner, DataHaven.
Sealand would be a ready-made, powered platform in international waters with fiber already in place. And it's a sovergn nation...anyone else thinking "Google Country"?
By going beyond national boundaries, don't you also lose any protection from law enforcement? What's to stop someone from sailing up and loading all their servers onto a boat and leaving.
I don't know, I'm thinking maybe... Rapture?
Come on, you know they could possibly build one.
Want Ads
Wanted: Bodyguard/baby sitter. Must be accustomed to heavy diving gear and able to operate an arm drill or rivet gun. Must also be good around kids.
RSVP to Andrew Ry... err Sergey Brin and Larry Page.
PS. Knowledge of bio mutations a plus!
~~ Behold the flying cow with a rail gun! ~~
Could the Google data barges survive a Hurricane? They don't look like they could outrun one, but Google's application says some of the Pelamis units could be submerged enough to ride out a major storm.
The good news: You get quoted in the London Times, and they include a link to your web site. Sweet!
The bad news: They use the UK spelling ("data centre") in the link, and don't notice the 404s.
Worse news: The Times story get Slashdotted, and all those readers can't find your site.
Live and learn. Now we own datacentreknowledge.com as well. If anyone was actually looking, our link is below.
RichM
Data Center Knowledge
get your facts straight. 1 investment bank declared chapter 11. last i checked, 1 differs from several.
this also differs from "the banking system is collapsing".
I think the CEO of Google may be in need of a tattoo.
Am I the only one reminded of Havenco?
Basically, they are a datacenter running on an old WW2 defense tower in northern england, with armed guards, no copyright laws, "self-declared sovereign nation" etc etc...
That also sounds an awful lot like Cryptonomicon, too, but hey.
It is both affected by bribes (payments for higher rankings) and by its political and religious agenda, which causes it to block sites that are inconstant with its agenda. As such, it is not a truly free search engine, and its proposed datahavens would likewise fail to live up to the freedom of Snowcrash.
Or would that be, google.sea.org? And will the workers there have to sign a "billion-year" contract?
http://xkcd.com/225/
What are you talking about? Google doesn't use server-grade solutions; just a massive array of desktop-grade components, complete with people at the ready to deal with failures. On their scale, it's cheaper. Of course, this means there there are people in their data centers.
The profitability of raiding such a data center is not in reselling the goods, but in the ransom; with the threat of down-time and the lives of the operators and sysadmins, there's some serious liability to be had, and for the pirates, serious cash.
It would be cheaper for Google to BUY a third-world nation, secure an protective agreement with some larger neighbor, and install the needed facilities. Of course, Google could do the same kind of agreement with nations near their barges, but the patrolling isn't as cost-effective.
Use my userscript to add story images to Slashdot. There's no going back.
By moving off shore they can bypass all privacy laws anywhere. This means they'll truly own our informaion.
Pay off Google employees on international waters and then the transaction is legal.
Why doesn't Google just buy Sealand?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principality_of_Sealand
---- "Logoff! That cookie shit makes me nervous!" - A. Soprano
"Or property" is usually specified because people don't necessarily alwys want to kill you, they just want your stuff. They're usually still threatening you to get it, though.
If they're unarmed and not threatening you, like an unarmed burglar, you just point a gun at'em and call the police. Unless you're Texan, in which case they're so very dead.
suprised have not seen this one yet, but brings new meaning to surfing the net. Maybe a little to obvious... (Goes to a corner to think about what he has done)
This is sounding a lot less like "data haven" and a bit more like "evil lair"...
Best job EVAR
Google gives a whole new meaning to "Boiling the Ocean"
U.S. culture today: Solve problems by killing people. Want more oil and weapons profits? Kill people. The U.S. government has killed an estimated 11 million people since the end of the 2nd World War, in 25 countries.
Geeks are in love with the idea of "data haven": offshore data centers that supposedly put your data out of reach of the local authorities. Thing is, if you do business in a country, the authorities can force you to give up your data no matter where you keep it. The leverage the authorities have is not physical access to the data, it's physical access to you.
What Google is doing is not creating "data havens". They're just putting some of their operations outside U.S. jurisdiction. So, for example, if California ever imposes a tax on disk space on CA soil, Google won't have to pay it. (Boeing already does this when it sells airplanes: the buyers take delivery in international airspace, thus avoiding the Washington state sales tax.) But unless Google wants to move all its staff onto those ships and reincorporate in Sealand, their data is still subject to subpoena.
After all, they will have a "product" that they are "importing" to the US, and to other countries. Whether the cable is a physical one or a microwave or UHF or VHF data stream, they will be a target of opportunity for the IRS.
Just moving the data center away will cost money, even if they moved it to, say, Utah, or Idaho. The City of Sunnyvale, or at the very least, the County of Santa Clara will hit them with fees or fines related to early termination of the business, that is unless, Google times the move to the lapsing of their locale operating permits. The State of California, too, will have triggers in place. After all, with the State having no true operating budget in place (yeh, despite the talk about it this weekend), California will keep an ear and eye on Google.
However, what would be interesting is if Google pulls this off. It would be really interesting to see if they "co-locate" or inspire others to "co-locate" aboard ship businesses that don't NEED real estate. I'm all for paying "reasonable" local and community taxes, but these governments often spend beyond their means. If I want to sell a digital product, and could do it from an RV or a transit vehicle, they why should my mere existence and operation of pressing keys constitute the right or power of the State/local government to heist money from me.
A few years ago, i became enraged to find out that the City of San Jose considers it a taxable/fee-incurring/license-subject activity to be merely *writing* in preparation for writing a book that is to be put on the market. They basically could tax, fee-charge, or find a doodling writer for failing to register a business, obtain permits, and pay fees yearly or as required.
SO, for people in those cases, generating data and using mostly electricity to conduct their work, but who cannot afford to actually obtain a corporation status (say, for legal reasons or to satisfy clients who don't prefer to deal with sole proprietors or "amateurs"), I'd say, if you can co-locate, DO IT. ESCAPE unreasonable taxes.
But, the problem, the BIG problem is that whether it's me, any low-waste-producing entrepreneur, or even Google, i, we, or they will at *some* point have employees step foot ashore on the US soil, and be subject to various commerce, quarantine, homeland security and other inspections or seizure procedures to validate the authority of the Nation, State, County, City and local authorities. How? Well, virtually any legit company NEEDS employees. Unless those personnel never come back to shore, they will likely "conduct business on behalf of the (business) entity", and therefore be subject to taxes.
It doesn't matter that "Google Data Center, Afloat" will use micro currents of the sea to generate data streams. They will be sending and receiving data (product), going to places where most of the time they'll be subject to various taxes.
Now, if their lawyers can successfully win, then that could be the start (or resumption/continuation) of an international case to once and for all terminate the USA's "Voice of America" broadcasts spilling (by intent) into the borders of countries the US considers in need of being overthrown. But, that's a different topic.
But, in order to further punish the afloat operators of any business, the State could refuse to renew their corporate status, penalize the key personnel, tax, lien, or garnish their wages, properties, and assets, and "quarantine" (or, jam/block/inconvenience/stream-corrupt) their product as it enters the offended territory.
At what point can/will Google and afloat operators contract hit men to "rectify" the problem?
Previously: "Linux... Toward the Sunrise..." Now: "Linux... Toward the-- No, now, part of Every Sunrise"
First, some URLs:
Long range acoustic device
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_range_acoustic_device
Ship Blasted Pirates With Sonic Weapon
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8DNUV2G3&show_article=1
Sonic Weapons Ward Off Pirate Attack
http://realmwaverider.blogspot.com/2005/11/sonic-weapons-ward-off-pirate-attack.html
Does LRAD Work?
http://maritimeaccident.wordpress.com/2008/03/25/does-lrad-work/
Cruise Lines Turn to LRAD
http://www.marinelink.com/Story/Cruise+Lines+Turn+to++LRAD-200811.html
This is almost a Security Theatre/Boondoggle Exercise all over again.
Any pirates wanting a particular ship, or even a random one that is known to be equipped with sonic blasters, but not protected by specially-trained anti-piracy personne with long-range weaponry will only need to fire RPGs, or laser-guided weapons, or use sniper rifles with HE/AP shells to take out the expensive, lone sonic mount. Even a frag blast *near* it may send it off-kilter.
To pull this off is a no-brainer. Typically, pirates already send one to 3 boats ahead of the target lying wait in the dark. They already would have paid out (dispensed) a line rigged between them as they separated sufficiently to ensnare the target. The target craft/vessel encounters the line, and forging ahead, draws the pirates in closer. They pirates use suction cups or grappling hooks, or some combination thereof and scale the hull.
Now, using sniper rifles with NVG-enhancement type equipment, a few well-placed sniper-fired rounds from one or more craft can take out the LRAD mounts -- unless so many multiples (fakes) are emplaced so as to cause the pirates to fire enough rounds do betray their location. Smart LRAD emplacements will have gear to detect and localize the source of incoming fire and train the operational/real LRAD to that bearing and elevation and dwell on the target. But, in congested areas, like the Strait of Malacca, using the LRAD can quickly become illegal if locals are sickened, ship-wrecked or otherwise harmed.
For a more recent article (but not one containing countermeasures such as mine, which anyone with half a brain can adduce/deduct/produce/educe in 45 seconds), see:
Maritime Reporter & Engineering News (www.marinelink.com) August 2008
If you are a sailor/yacht operator, you've probably already read:
"The New Piracy"
http://www.lrb.co.uk/v25/n24/glas01_.html
"Dangerous Waters: Modern Piracy and Terror on the High Seas", By John Burnette (I bought my copy in 2003)
http://www.amazon.com/Dangerous-Waters-Modern-Piracy-Terror/dp/0452284139
Previously: "Linux... Toward the Sunrise..." Now: "Linux... Toward the-- No, now, part of Every Sunrise"
If you don't have a dream
How you gonna have a dream come true ?
Are you implying that Google are planning to locate their fleet in the South Pacific?!
"Slashdot - News and Chat Sites Deviant". (Click "homepage" link above for details).
Those all seem pretty experimental compared to jacketed hollow points.
“Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
What if "property" includes my wife and slaves?
“Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
Corporations are legal fictions that cannot exist outside and independent of the jurisdictions that create them. Remember Moriarty from the Star Trek:TNG episode "Elementary My Dear Data". If a corporation wants to move, it must incorporate in the destination (think "holodeck") jurisdiction. Anything beyond that is asking for status as a sovereign nation state. The UN does not incorporate
As for the prosecution of crimes committed within stateless space (what tax freedom implies), it would depend upon the citizenship of the victim and/or the citizenship of the suspect. I imagine the motivation for Google or any other data center entity that expatriates would include but not be limited to tax reasons. If the federal government (via the IRS) determines that tax avoidance is the reason, it could discreetly state that those holding US citizenship that work in such places that 'they are pretty much on their own'. Maritime law can come into play if there exist a valid contract.
Merely because US citizenship is a franchise upon the exercise thereof Congress may lay and collect excises (income tax) does not mean that the rights which flow therefrom are limitless.
Remember Lisa Flatow. Some years ago I remember hearing radio PSA's sponsored by the US Department of State concerning US citizen travelers. It stated that travelers needed to learn the customs and ways of their destinations or they will have to "face the music". Whether it arise from the geopolitics of petroleum to the tinfoil hat domain of excessive gov't to potentially hostile nations, the romantic idea that John Q. Public will be rescued by G.I. Joe anytime anywhere is a relic of the past.
Submission as evidence constitutes plaintiff and/or prosecutorial misconduct.
I swear, one of these days they're going to reveal themselves. And I don't mean in a good way.
They've got our identities. They've got our collective interests. They've got most of our data, if not the originals then at least cached copies. They've got mind-bogglingly more power (of almost any kind) than any other corporation.
And now they're taking it all to international waters, outside of governmental regulation.
Maybe it's just me, but this can't possibly end well.
"Good news, everyone!"
the copyright cops crap, other anti net neutrality and privacy paranoia they are pushing etc, it was inevitable that google (and soon others) would say enough of this crap.
the bastards who are pushing copyright cops crap are saying it is "to protect jobs". imagine the jobs that are lost when google datacenters (and others too) moves offshore.
how many 'jobs' does music industry provide anyway ? a total load of crap compared to the internet services. yes it is.
but they brought this on themselves. they should explain to their constituents how this will 'protect jobs'.
Read radical news here
It's surprised me that big users of electricity don't at least attempt to recover some of their costs by selling the waste heat from the industrial process to warm the homes of, and provide hot water for, their surrounding communities.
google's cash can buy them defense assistance of any country. they can go to french guyana, and you can find french frigates guarding them. all it takes is a good investment, or another form of financial incentive.
Read radical news here
It would serve as a good reminder to corporate interests, domestic and abroad, that they operate at the will of the citizens of countries that protect them.
excuse me, WHAT are you doing as citizen to protect them ? pray tell us.
as of now a number of filthy bastards you name senators are in the process of putting out SO bad a law that, it will almost kill all kinds of businesses on the internet, 'to protect jobs'. it has a good name too - copyright cops.
what the hell are you 'citizens' doing, to prevent google from this onslaught.
hell, what are you doing to protect YOURSELF from this ?
Read radical news here
Once upon a time there was a family of economists.
This included Rose Friedman, her brother what's his name, her husband Milton Friedman, their kids David and Susan, and David's kid Patri Freidman.
The general theme of their work is that economies spontaneously organize, instead of being created and managed by governments or god.
Milton won the Nobel Prize, David wrote the groundbreaking "The machinery of freedom",and Patri, well Patri's thing is seasteading.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seasteading
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patri_Friedman
Until quite recently, Patri worked for google.
Google is starting to sound more and more like L. Bob Rife's corporation from Snow Crash.
in the dotcom era, there was a english company trying to buy decomissioned oil rigs, to use them as Datacenters. At the time they had both Fibre and Satellite uplinks. You may also be able to change these rigs to generate green power as well.
Hehe... it won't be 'experimental', but WILL be 'experiential' to be hit by 90-plus decibles at under 500 feet and suddenly realizing the ear plugs were not enough... Hehe... captcha is 'rumpled'... i am imagining Rumpled stilted skins (or, crumpled, steeled skin) after being sonic-blasted...
Previously: "Linux... Toward the Sunrise..." Now: "Linux... Toward the-- No, now, part of Every Sunrise"
Ninja versus torpedoes.... Ninja loses!
Seems like that would be a little more practical...
If you RTFA is says the ships will be anchored 7 miles off the coast. That is well within the national borders so they would simply be protected by the coast guard.
I don't think there is a way you would be able to go outside national territory without paying for a huge fibre cable
This sig is just as redundant as the rest of this posting
So what we're really talking abut now is a precursor to Google country - a kind of Republic/United Stats of Google?
Which has its own laws and its own constitution?
Of course it'll be in Beta for a long time.
Can't see Hindi?
The nice Coast Guard cutter that boards you don't care about your webcams, lol. And if you so much as spit at them they've every right under the law of the sea to just send you to Davey Jones Locker. An unflagged vessel is AFAIK just about like an unclaimed island, anyone who feels like occupying it, owns it (principle of Terra Nullis in the case of an island, little different for ships, same basic idea).
It would be FUN, but I doubt Google's shareholders would approve, lol.
"Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem." -- Jefferson
> Neal Stephenson novel
Why bother with international waters when they can build it on KINAKUTA!
This will give new meaning to floating point processors.
Oh, say does that Star-Spangled Banner entwine / The myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's vine?
whay -> why. (Yes, I did hit the "Preview" button, dammit.)