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For those of you who might not be familiar with what Wine actually is, let me clarify. Even though some of us enjoy a sip of wine every now and then, this is not what we are talking about today. We are referring to a package that allows Windows applications to run on Linux... outside of an emulator. Wine uses an open source Windows API (application programming interface) to allow modified Win32 binaries to run in a UNIX/Linux environment, completely free of Windows. Think of it not as an emulator, but more of a compatibility layer, or translator if you will. The status of the Wine project can be found here.

CodeWeavers is at the head of the pack in Wine development and deservedly so. They produce the most well packaged, capable distributions of Wine available. As Jeremy has stated, development is in the hands of their customer base and supporters. Whatever the customer wants the customer gets, and so it should rightfully be. Mr. White knows his business. You can see which applications are getting all of the attention at the CodeWeavers Top List page, and it's actually pretty interesting to see what apps are getting pushed to the top. Take a look.

Well, enough of the small talk, let's carry on with the interview. Enjoy!

Mad Penguin: First of all, I'd like to thank you for taking the time to sit down with us today to answer a few questions. I guess the first thing I'd like to know is more personal than anything... why Linux? What was the motivational factor(s) behind developing software to run Windows applications on Linux?

Jeremy White: Well, it's a fairly long story. I've always been a geek. I've loved programming on computers since I was 11 and had to sneak into the Radio Shack to do it, and I've also always loved computer games. Early in my career, I grew quite proficient at communications and networking programming. I was working on a project for a customer that had a Solaris system. But, they were across town, and I had to drive over there to work on it, and I couldn't afford a Sun of my own. So, instead, I installed and starting developing against Linux (circa 94 I'd say), and then just migrating the code once it was done.

So that's when I fell in love with Linux, and when we started having at least one Linux box around all the time.

Now fast forward to about 1997. One day, at lunch, I'm talking to a few new hires (young kids) that had never played the original Combat cartridge in an Atari 2600. This struck me as horrible
cultural illiteracy on their part, and so I set off to find an Atari 2600 emulator to correct this horrible flaw in their education. Along the way, I stumbled across the Wine project, and thought that it was the most audacious project I'd seen in a long time. I thought then (as I think now) that if Linux could become a truly Windows compatible operating system, it would allow for an explosion in new computing choices, and I'd get to feel like that kid at Radio Shack again.

Further, in 1996, I had founded CodeWeavers so I could do work I considered meaningful, challenging, and fun, and although we did some fun projects, I was really looking for a mission. Of course, I had a day job (and a young kid), so I couldn't really do much with Wine then. But I kept dreaming, and then one day, it being the 90s and all, I decided to pursue a business built around Wine and helping people port Windows software to Linux. I successfully landed some venture capital, asked a bunch of the Wine developers to come on board, and that's really how we got started on this mission.

MP: I'm interested in learning how quickly CodeWeavers evolved into the full-blown business it is today. Ho

First, some undisputable facts.

And now some helpful sites are found here

That's not piracy.

I'm using for a long time the Linux ATM. There are several articles in the net. To me it's an interesting project.

I took some precautions with my computer to prevent spyware but my roommate managed to mess it up pretty good, since then I have taken the correct steps to ensure protection. This is what I recommend if you want to keep a Windows computer safe from everything without paying for anything.

Whenever possible enable Automatic Updates for all applications (including Windows itself), if that's not an option update manually on a weekly basis.

System Protection:

Only use admin account when necessary.

Virus/Worm Protection/Removal:

Install AVG
Don't use Outlook Express use Thunderbird

Hacker/Worm Protection:

Enable XP Firewall (easiest) or Zonealarm or Kerio (my favorite)

Adware/Spyware/Pop-up Protection:

Don't use Internet Explorer use **** Frefox ****
If you have to use IE install the Google Toolbar
Run Spyware Blaster to give IE &/or Firefox more protection.
Install Spyware Guard and place in all users startup group to give real-time protection.

Adware/Spyware Removal:

Run SpyBot & Ad-Aware
In my experience each product alone doesn't get rid of everything, using both is the best way to go.

OR

Just take the Absolute Cheapest & Most Effective route and install Linux.

********
If you install Firefox you will want the following plugins, use Firefox to download the plugins.

Shockwave
Flash
Java

I found that Spysweeper works better than SpyBot or others. It scans memory and can prevent Spyware and Adware from installing and schedules a regular scan in case they do install.

If you run an X86 PC system with Windows, There is a solution to the malware problem if you are not too chicken to use it. Buy Crossover Office if you really want to run MS-Office and other MS-Junk. Yes you heard me right, leave that POS called Windows for an OS that does not suffer from such bad malware and security prolems.

Perhaps, perhaps not. In the department of Beneficial Unintended Consequences, the matter of them barricading themselves so securely that suddenly they discover that everyone has moved on to Something Else is not to be discounted.

And this is where your fud blows up in your face. For the base price of a MS OS (98+) you get an online KB for free, windows update for free, support from hundreds of vendors and there KB's for free. What do you get from Red Hat, a single point of contact for support or RTFM from people in the community? If I were to purchase a desktop OS purely on the idea of support MS products would be top of my list due to the fact they actually might be around for awhile.

;-)

Scribus is a desktop publishing program for Unix and Linux which has been gathering momentum recently. SuSe now proudly proclaim that with SuSe 9.1, Professional layouts can be prepared with the desktop publishing application Scribus. Scribus is also recieving critical acclaim from other big open source quarters such as Newsforge who recently proclaimed Scribus to be one of Free Software's Killer Applications.

ut what is Scribus really like? Can anyone just pick it up and use it? Is it really as powerful as they say it is? And does it live up to the hype surrounding it?

About ScribusScribus is a desktop publishing program for Unix and Linux. It is built with the Qt libraries and is run natively in the KDE desktop environment. Scribus is published under the Gpl and is similar to similar to Adobe PageMaker, QuarkXPress or Adobe InDesign. Scribus has an unusually small development team and is mostly the work of a German programmer called Franz Schmid. The Scribus team are positioning the program as an easy to use DTP publishing program for the Linux and Unix operating systems with support available for professional publishing features. These professional publishing features include:

• CMYK Colour

• Press Ready PDF Creation
  • Further advanced PDF features for making interactive PDFs exist together with a large amount of support for the PDF 1.4 specification including:
  • Transparency
  • Encryption
  • Form Field
  • Annotations
  • Bookmarks

EPS and PDF import/export

Complete ICC colour management

Font embedding and sub-setting in both postscript and PDF exportIn addition to this Scribus also provides:

• A WYSIWYG viewpoint for document creation
• An XML based file format allowing for easier file recovery if corruption occurs
• Drawing tools for custom shapes including: lines, curves, ellipses, bezier curves, polygons, etc.
• Drag'n'drop with KDE 3, including a Drag'n'drop scrapbook for frequently used items such as text blocks, logo images, backgrounds etc

As can be seen Scribus certainly isn't devoid of features, and there are many others in the program which I haven't described above. All in all, Scribus is a fairly feature rich program and more features such as importing from Microsoft Office and OO.org are expected in future releases. Installation of Scribus

I installed Scribus by going to the download section of the Scribus homepage in order to obtain the latest version which at this moment in time is 1.1.6. There are several different methods of installation available, including source and prepackaged files. Prepackaged files are available in the form of RPMs for Red Hat 9, Fedora Core 1 and SuSe 9, Deb files are also available for Debian users.

Since I'm using Fedora Core 1 I downloaded the RPM from the site and installed it. I used the Scribus website instead of a Fedora Yum repository as I have only been able to find out of date versions of Scribus on them. When installing the RPM I did encounter a dependency issue in which I needed to install a program called

Scribus is a desktop publishing program for Unix and Linux which has been gathering momentum recently. SuSe now proudly proclaim that with SuSe 9.1, Professional layouts can be prepared with the desktop publishing application Scribus. Scribus is also recieving critical acclaim from other big open source quarters such as Newsforge who recently proclaimed Scribus to be one of Free Software's Killer Applications.

ut what is Scribus really like? Can anyone just pick it up and use it? Is it really as powerful as they say it is? And does it live up to the hype surrounding it?

About ScribusScribus is a desktop publishing program for Unix and Linux. It is built with the Qt libraries and is run natively in the KDE desktop environment. Scribus is published under the Gpl and is similar to similar to Adobe PageMaker, QuarkXPress or Adobe InDesign. Scribus has an unusually small development team and is mostly the work of a German programmer called Franz Schmid. The Scribus team are positioning the program as an easy to use DTP publishing program for the Linux and Unix operating systems with support available for professional publishing features. These professional publishing features include:

• CMYK Colour

• Press Ready PDF Creation
  • Further advanced PDF features for making interactive PDFs exist together with a large amount of support for the PDF 1.4 specification including:
  • Transparency
  • Encryption
  • Form Field
  • Annotations
  • Bookmarks

EPS and PDF import/export

Complete ICC colour management

Font embedding and sub-setting in both postscript and PDF exportIn addition to this Scribus also provides:

• A WYSIWYG viewpoint for document creation
• An XML based file format allowing for easier file recovery if corruption occurs
• Drawing tools for custom shapes including: lines, curves, ellipses, bezier curves, polygons, etc.
• Drag'n'drop with KDE 3, including a Drag'n'drop scrapbook for frequently used items such as text blocks, logo images, backgrounds etc

As can be seen Scribus certainly isn't devoid of features, and there are many others in the program which I haven't described above. All in all, Scribus is a fairly feature rich program and more features such as importing from Microsoft Office and OO.org are expected in future releases. Installation of Scribus

I installed Scribus by going to the download section of the Scribus homepage in order to obtain the latest version which at this moment in time is 1.1.6. There are several different methods of installation available, including source and prepackaged files. Prepackaged files are available in the form of RPMs for Red Hat 9, Fedora Core 1 and SuSe 9, Deb files are also available for Debian users.

Since I'm using Fedora Core 1 I downloaded the RPM from the site and installed it. I used the Scribus website instead of a Fedora Yum repository as I have only been able to find out of date versions of Scribus on them. When installing the RPM I did encounter a dependency issue in which I needed to install a program called

Even with their update, the entry level Macs are still not even remotely competetive with today's cutting edge Intel machines. Apple fanatics, I don't understand why you continue to waste your money on such machines. Take a look at the configurations of the following machines:

Apple eMac
1.25GHz PowerPC G4, 256MB DDR SDRAM
80GB Ultra ATA/100, SuperDrive (DVD-R/CD-RW)
17-inch (16-inch viewable) flat CRT
ATI Radeon 9200 32MB
Mac OSX
= $999

Dell Dimension 2400
2.4GHz Celeron, 256MB DDR SDRAM
80GB Ultra ATA/100, DVR+RW optical drive
17-inch (16-inch visible) CRT
Intel 3D Extreme Graphics
Windows XP
= $679

I specced the Dell to be similar to the high-end eMac. Suprise, suprise - it's $320 cheaper. The Intel equivalent is even $120 cheaper than the low-end $799 eMac! What's up with that?

But if we go ahead and spend the extra $300 on an Intel based machine, we get some really flashy upgrades that start to compete with Apple's high-end G5 offerings. For example, we can easily get a 3GHz hyperthreading Pentium 4 (which is 2 processors in one - an effective clockspeed of 6GHz assuming 100% efficiency running parallel tasks). For example:

Dell Dimension 4600
3GHz Pentium 4 with hyperthreading, 512MB DDR SDRAM
120GB Ultra ATA/100, DVD+RW optical drive
17-inch (16-inch visible) CRT
NVIDIA GeForce FX 5200 128MB graphics card
Windows XP
= $998

Ta-da. Conclusion: Apple is still really bad value for money. For the same price as an entry-level Apple system, you could get a significantly powerful workstation capable of handling anything you throw at it - including games. If you're willing to go a step further and build your own machine from components (gasps from the Apple audience), you can get an even higher specced machine for about the same money.

An ultra-high end computer is $1000 if you're willing to shop around. Nobody should settle for anything less, or for overexpensive, underpowered solutions like eMacs. You don't even have to run Windows if you don't want to. Gnome and KDE await you on Linux and FreeBSD (on which Mac OSX was originally based).

well there is Google Linux and tons of Linux Faq's
Let me say I know the frustration, this weekend I finally got a linux distro to like our PC's hardware and actually work. While a massive centralized faq would be nice I know it will never happen and so I use what is available to me. This is one of the downsides to a discentralized system, there is no one place to look and lots of reinventing the wheel is done.

Joe doesn't know any local linux geeks that'll come fix something for a 6 pack of Duff

Maybe if he tried offering Gunniess instead, he would get a better reception?

Oh come on, it's not like you haven't sat down with $RELATIVE_FROM_USA to fix $COMPUTER_PROBLEM and been offered something like crudwiser. Ick.

Refined tastes on technology need not imply a favoritism to non-domestic American beverages. But this is an important facet of software that people leave out: culture.

I view that whole problem with software is not about the number of machines installed. The problem is about people, attitudes and perceptions.

I feel that addressing the difference of community will be the single most challenging task facing popular adoption of tools like Linux. The OS installed on a user's computer is a choice of that user. It is up to you to change that user's attitude. They will put up with horrid quality when they don't know of a better alternative.

In my opinion culture clash between 'Joe Sixpack Windows-User' and everybody else is dramatic. Both the Apple and $FREE_OS communities like to view themselves as fringe or special groups. They celebrate their difference from the mainstream. Pure and unadulterated Windows users form a different community than the users of Apple or $FREE_OS products. They belive the tools they have work and work adequately. The common users are people who are sufficiently content with their pre-packaged choice to not look outside the beige box. Due to bad practices by Microsoft, they also form the largest community of individual personal computer users.

It has been said that the I.Q. of a group is the lowest I.Q. of the members of the group divided by the number of members of that group (think communication overhead when talking with slow people.) Fortunately for the 'Aunt Tillies' of the world, individual users can have quite a solid grasp of basic computer skills. Unfortunately, confirmation bias and cognitive dissonance imply a lot of ineria.

While 'Aunt Tillie, CTO/CFO' grasps software quality, their grasp may be of the level of the average car buyer. This is a person who only needs to know about various cars during the rare purchase of a car. In the M$ dominated media of software boxes at your local $MEGA_MART, communicating the benefits of something like Linux or Apple over Microsoft products will require overcoming the established noise level of $ billions in marketing

This is why Microsoft is 50% marketing. This is why commercial Linux distributions are a Good Thing. This is why Apple is still here. The best hackers of the world have been excellent social engineers before anything else. It's time to put that 'social' part to a very good use.

Social engineering of the common man to want quality in software, rather than just settling for third best is possible. After helping run a student organization for Linux users for a few years, I have seen remarkable progress in the quality of various distributions. However, problems with GUI's, driver availability and application compatibility are but small technical hurdles that can be solved with adequate coding.

If you care about software quality then talk to you neighbor. Show off your computers. Maybe even offer them a Guinness while you watch DVDs on your PC with those neighbors. Get the word out.

... flaw?

when will people realize?

There is also Vector Linux that I used sucessfully on older hardware. Just look for "minimalist" linux distros on Linux.org .

Yes, I love old hardware and alternate OSes. How did you tell?

Slashdot posting a positive article about a Windows OS? [regardless of the fact its years away from release, and still in extremely early alpha stages]. Slashdot, this is so unlike you. Where are the backhand comments against M$? Where are the links with Better Operating systems? I'm ashamed of you. Where's your prejudice? Where's your bias?

Kellogg's Corn Flakes may cause hair loss, sterility, loose bowels, and a decreased sex drive.

Studies show that after three hours of exposure to Kellogg's Corn Flakes, 7 in 10 rats developed open sores and malignant brain tumors.

Do not taunt Kellogg's Corn Flakes.

So, in closing. Downloading software is illegal. Fucking consumers is immoral.


Correction: Downloading illegally available software is illegal.

Case in point: I have a free, free-to-download test program available at my site (see sig) that checks if the PC you run it on is capable of running my retail program that is available for purchase there.

zerocool complains about high-priced (overpriced) software as is his/her right in the USA under the First Amendment to the Constitution Of America.

The reality: Software development costs MONEY and should be compensated for if desired by the creators of said software.

The facts....

The computer(s) the software is developed on costs money (unless said computer(s) were donated for free).

The electricity powering the computer costs money (unless it is being generated from a free and/or donated source).

The programmer(s) who programmed the software cost money (unless they are donating their time and skills for free).

The advertising for the software costs money (unless it is being done for free somehow).

The distribution expenses to distribute the software to the recipients cost money (unless it is being done for free somehow).

Companies and individuals have invested lots of time and money in the software they create and sell. They found needs/markets for certain kinds of software and wrote the software to fill those needs/markets. Big companies have to sell software for big bucks to recoup the expenses in creating, maintaining, and distributing said software. They also are entitled to profit from their software which should be reinvested back into the company--not wasted.

For example, look at the 'gross profit margin' on a retail CD copy of Windows: $179.00 or so for a round thin sandwich of plastics and metal that has an intrinsic value of maybe $1.00. That $179.00 Windows CD allowed everybody, from the end user/customer up to Microsoft itself, to profit and benefit from the manpower and technology invested in it to create it and to benefit from its power as a computer operating system.

Ok, let's cut to the chase....

Windows is a kludge, based on code dating back to the dawn of the PC era.

Microsoft is a monopoly.

Even in this environment, the customer STILL has alternatives such as Apple and Linux -- SCO problems with commercial Linux use aside (which can be resolved.

If you want to avoid paying for high-priced software, use cheaper/free software or buy/legally get for free the necessary software tools to write your own custom programmed software solutions.

To address the second part of zerocool's comment, I offer the the following as some of the societal results of 'people as consumers -- not customers'. This has created a desparate, adversarial environment in which commerce and 'consumers' meet in an inevitable clusterfsck....

Wal-Mart, their business practices and its consequenses.

Ad creep. Even on the Internet. a technique coined and first implemented in 1996.

Email spam.

the internet--once heralded as a revolutionary force in politics--has turned out to be surprisingly nonthreatening to dictators and tyrannies.

I can think of a few dictators and tyrants whose kingdoms are threatened by the power of the internet. The internet is scary to some, exciting to others, because it's people working together.

One of the first banks to use Linux was Banrisul, that is running thousands of ATM with Linux since 2001. I found a picture of the guys behind the project. There is a small embossed picture of Tux in the welcome screen.

Has anyone come across a removal tool and/or removal instructions? They would be helpful for future reference.

Here is a helpful site. It provides instructions on how to get rid of windows viruses forever. Even ones not yet invented.

Los Alamos Computers These guys seem pretty good, and offer a lot of choice, and have some clearance systems.
penguin computing
Linux Certified
Linux.org's listing of linux hardware vendors. Doesn't seem to be that up to date(last I looked) but a good starting point for finding computers running linux.

There needs to be a chapter on bash prompts. I have seen some slick prompts. Displaying; uptime, current directory size, time, battery power, etc. I'm pretty satisfied with a user@host:~, but i do like to put color in mine.

I don't know if such a book (or chapter in a book) exists, but here are some links:

• Example Bash Prompts
• Bash Prompt HOWTO

Have fun...

Maybe if you had worked out how to use the HREF tags, then I might have modded you up!

If their web site doesn't run Linux, I wonder how SCO determined that Autozone is a Linux user.

A simple google for "autozone" and "linux" turned this up: Red Hat to service AutoZone stores, stock surges. To me this is a two pronged attack; one against Linux users, another against the largest Linux distribution company..

There are quite a few LUGs in Germany. I think it would be great press for one of them to assemble a team to assist their Government with the implementation of GNU/Linux.

*Cough* Sun Indemnifies Customers *Cough*

I concur! :) Upgrade today!

So why is it going to succeed where these failed? :
fresco
YAX (Y Ain't X)
The Y Window System
Oh never mind. What's the point?

This is quite the desperate attempt by MS to obtain a larger share of the world OS market. Hopefully those in Bangkok will learn that there's an un-crippled, stable, fast operating system out there already, and it's FREE.

Bogus argument. SSH is large, but its functionality is well received. If you're looking for a small, simple encrypted remote login client-server, look into SSL(and SASL) enabled telnet. netkit ships with SSL support now. ftp://ftp.uk.linux.org/pub/linux/Networking/netkit . (The netkit README does not suggest running telnetd, however. Take it as you will.) The FSF also has a telnet daemon under the GNU inetutils project. I don't see SSL encryption, but I do see kerberos.

I disagree with a line in the writeup [1] related to what you're saying [2]:

1. "Darl repeatedly returned to the issue of their IP being in linux, which I think is a very very valid point. ... He looked taken aback -- the people, who came with such a strong set of opinions against SCO, were saying that they agreed with the root of their case... But the message was getting lost amongst all their constant BS."

2. "he seemed somewhat receptive to the fact that we're not all IP-hating copyright-hating hippies, we just don't like the FUD"

Meeting someone in person, especially one who is good at politics, helps you see their frame of reference -- or the one they project anyway. This will often lead to the perception that someone is less crazy than they seem. The two quotes above, to me, imply that SCO might have a point and Darl is honestly trying to win this case, that this is a serious matter to him.

Sorry if my implications are putting words in the mouths of the writers, but I'd like to point out a few things.

1) SCO hasn't shown any valid proof, even in court, as of yet.

2) Most of the that has been shown publicly has been shown to be public domain.

3) SCO is asking IBM to open their code for comparison... but SCO has their own code as well as Linux's. This is about code in Linux, not AIX mind you. They're asking IBM to prove their case for them while refusing to show any of the proof they've been ranting about for the better part of a year.

4) It's quite arguable that suing IBM for $3 billion is a joke.

5) SCO released Linux under the GPL, even after the case had been filed. This is contradictory to their "GPL is unconstitutional, etc." claim. Either the GPL is valid and their IP is OSS or it is invalid and they're violating copyright.

6) Verbal, contradicting comments saying A) This is about contract, end users are fine/We're going to sue people using Linux, B) Linux is "counter-cultural"/We use and sell Linux, it's great. They haven't even stuck with a transition here, they keep going back and forth.

7) SCO is selling licenses for IP but they refuse to tell you what IP you're licensing. Note that this also violates the GPL.

These things aren't just 'bad PR', these are actual stances SCO (and namely, Darl, who said many of the things I'm talking about) have. This stuff is common sense and public news. If Darl is truely running this $3 billion dollar lawsuit seriously, my only explaination is that he's absolutely stupid and out of touch with both reality, and his company.

A good summmary: http://www.linux.org/news/sco/timeline.html

Cheers

What about burning a bunch of CDs full of the latest linux info? It wouldn't take much to put the linux.org and several other sites onto CD then ship 100 CDs over there. Since they don't have reliable or cheap connections, it would almost be like donating $100 dollars to the LUG (minus the $25-30 bucks to buy and send them). They could give them away for free or charge $.50. Either way, everyone would benefit.

What a pity that Clark Boyd, the tech journo who wrote the piece, failed mention that the BBC uses Linux and Apache to host its main news portal. If some above average technical writer would like to do a piece about the Net infrastructure at the BBC, I for one would be very interested to read it.

Seeing as googlebombs seem to be in fashion at the moment I'd like to propose Microsoft and MSN.

Microsoft advises that it is best to type in your OS, rather than just purchase one off the shelf.

(1) My original post was meant mostly in fun. Too bad it wasn't taken that way.

(2) Hi! My name is Phil Paradis, and I'm (mostly) a programmer with a software firm, although on paper I'm the CIO. Please reference transops.net for more background information.

(3) Pursuant to -2-, most of our clients happen to be attorneys. Of course, we couldn't possibly know anything about copyright law, even though my first firm was a partnership with a guy whose father was Dean of John Marshall Law School.

(4) Yeah, your code is protected quite nicely under a registered copyright, but (and pay attention now):

This does absolutely nothing to prevent somebody else from reproducing every shred of functionality your software has, from scratch, by writing their own code. For reference, please see linux.org.

Perhaps you should examine your wording a bit more precisely before you get jumpy on your conclusions, eh? Discussions are the only way we have for testing and refining our concepts, but people seem to get a tad rude when they have a net connection in between themselves and their "debate opponent". Let's just keep it civil and everyone can have a nice time, eh?

By the way, I appreciate the fact that you're a girl (as opposed to a "he"). It's good to see women offering their thoughts in a rather male-centric forum. Take it as a compliment. Thanks.

I haven't had (spy|ad)ware for years either. My solution is a bit more comprehensive than a browser, however. ;)

Any input out there on the real, hard costs of things such as virus protection?

$0.

Far more likely, they'll Google linux. And frankly, what comes up right now won't leave the best impression - MyDoom is bad press for linux, and it's currently the top news article involving linux. The sites that show up (such as linux.org) give a too-technical description that's just plain not a good introduction to linux for newbs.

You may want to check this interview out before submitting questions to Adam to aviod repetition.

I found answers to most of the questions asked here in that article. It's a good read. Enjoy.

After switching to Linux six years ago and spending a lot of time trying to navigate Gnome's menus to find what I was looking, a friend told me about WindowMaker. I edit the menus to weed out the cruft, include things that take a lot of keystrokes to launch, and open terminals to do my other work. If I need something that I didn't put in a menu, I have a command prompt to launch it. No muss, no fuss. This, of course requires a real OS.

The Ark of the Covenant contained, among other items, an original of the Covenant text. Thus, Darl can separate and list the items seperately and say he owns both; if he so desires. May he then be struck by lightning or at least contract pestilent, rotting sores as a result?

Nah, just let him be sat upon by an 800-kilo gorilla and pecked to death by a covey of penguins instead.

As for those of us who just want to get rid of Windows, Linux or something BSD will do as well.

try aee. Works great for me on the console. The only other editors I want and use are vim and gedit.

Did you try them all?

...for another option.

So, NetBSD is going politically correct? Well, the Linux Penguin is non-PC in a more subtle way. :-)

Now how much would you pay?"