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Check out the Linux Terminal Server Project, there are a few education LTSP projects linked in there (example), I think it would make management of the computer lab much more simplier and keep the overall hardware costs down.

Simple. Switch as many people as possible to linux terminals with the Linux Terminal Server Project.

Software needs to be installed/upgraded/removed in exactly one place, with a simple RPM command. No viruses (nobody but IT has root). Everyone has a piece of junk desktop computer with no movable parts (hard drive) that can break. Backup is much simpler than backing up workstation HDs.

Then spend all day reading Slashdot and STILL save the company money. :)

My company recently merged 3 production servers and 2 test servers

You might also be able to move users onto a thin client setup (like LTSP.)

Also, consider using free alternatives to licensed products, like OpenOffice.org. (Bleedin' obvious around here, but I haven't seen anybody mention it yet.)

You may cal this flamebait, but still, I don't see any news here; isn't this a dupe?

Besides, I don't think I'm eager to get a BIG server just to support 3D desktop rendering on X terminals

http://ltsp.org/

Don't forget, *nix has been doing this for a really long time indeed. Google for 'dumb terminal'.

On a more practical note, the Linux Terminal Server Project is worth checking out if you want to implement this sort of setup with Linux based systems. I recently implemented 8 terminals and a server in a library to act as web surfing kisoks using LTSP.

I'm afraid that this time, you're not looking at where MS comes from. He does have a point! Windows, yes, even NT, evolved from the same point. They wanted to start from scratch, so re-wrote alot of the code. But there are so many flaws common to both NT-based and DOS-based versions of windows that you can assume they didn't rewrite the entire OS, only the parts of it that were preventing a good network management. Now look also at the licensing of windows: each workstation has to run it's own OS, and for each workstation you have to pay a license. So, yes, indeed, even NT, 2000 or XP is a standalone OS. It's not the technology that's lacking to have multiple terminals from the same kernel, in fact, Microsoft does have them, they just don't advertise it. Just like the LTSP project, Microsoft has it's own server/client software. So why is it that every company seems to need each employee to use his or her own computer as a standalone? And if Windows was even partially designed for distributed computing I'd be interested to know why no one has attempted this before? Surely you can't tell me someone at MS wouldn't have thought about it until just now... I for one welcome the fact that MS is trying to enter a market where linux dominates, because in my opinion it'll show Windows' weaknesses, and more importantly, that MS is a very good marketing company, except that their software isn't up to the challenge.

Autologin does work in GDM:

http://members.porchlight.ca/charm/wclp/enable-gdm .html#autologin

A workarround to THE bug is documented here:

http://www.k12ltsp.org/phpwiki/index.php/WrkArndGd mBug

I will play with the mentioned bug, maybe a couple configurations will make me breathe more calmly when Im away from the lan heh

Just ask Jim at irc, he's often logged in there, instead of offering help to fix GDM, the solution is always use KDM and get on with life.

Id be happy to use KDM only if it updated wtmp correctly, I even tried applying this:

http://www.ltsp.org/contrib/utmp_updating.txt

But it never worked for me.

Someday, X terminals will be perfect, but for now, Im still struggling :S

Required workstation components (for 20+ PCs):

• Case and power supply.
• MB with on-board video and PXE capable NIC (most modern MBs)
• 150+Mhz CPU
• 16Mb to 32Mb RAM
• KB, mouse, monitor and networking (switches) assumed already available per rules.
• No need for floppy, HD or CD-ROM

And finally a server with:

• MB with onboard NICs
• Case, power supply
• Around 1Gb RAM
• A big HD
• A CPU around 2 Ghz
• CD-ROM
• Free copy of LTSP

If, however, you already have a pretty decent desktop (1-3Ghz, 512Mb-1Gb RAM) you could always set up LTSP terminals for your kids, wife/SO, etc. for free. It isn't too hard to find some business or school that runs Windows and can't use 600Mhz PCs anymore much less 150Mhz boxes.

Mark has made quite a few efforts in the open source arena - most notably (in my opinion) in efforts at putting Linux classrooms down in township schools. See Schools' Linux Users Group that uses K12LTSP - a for-schools offshoot of the parent LTSP project, and chases Fedora. They have done around 70 schools so far - basically a big fat server, a 24 port switch, and a 20 client classroom.

Wizzy Digital Courier is piloting a low-cost internet access system in these schools, initially using overnight dialup using cheap rate phone calls, but enabled to use USB memory sticks to carry data using the UUCP protocol. This means that the price of connectivity can come down to zero, and is not dependent on a wireline telephone company pricing.

Disclaimer:I do wizzy, and I have mod points today so I can post anonymously. Tee Hee.

andyr@wizzy.com

The problem with this otherwise insightful observation is that parents have the reasonable expectation that their children will eventually master the new tools, and will quite likely surpass the parents' proficiency.

So it's all really about your expectation of the student? Are you teaching them what they want to know, or what you think they should know because that's what the kids know?

I teach IT to the more experienced in our society. You'd be surpised how quickly they do pick it up and what level they get to when their teachers stop teaching them like they're kids and listen to what it is they want to know. They don't give a rats about tcp/ip- they want to read their email. What is perceived as "senility" or "stupidity" is often just a lack of confidence in an area that has only just appeared in the context of their lifetimes. They didn't grow up with beige boxes. It's not second nature- yet.

And because it's about confidence, sometimes it takes a little longer. That's all. Give them some credit.

I've got a degree in CompSc a couple of years ago. I'm thinking of doing my Masters next year. My current setup is 1500 ADSL into a dedicated firewall into an http://ltsp.org/ box with file server sitting in the rack, with several workstations (that can boot into Windows for gaming or off the network) scattered around the house all running gigabit, plus a wireless network so I can connect my debian-running laptop and PDA. I've got another box in the rack recording my tv shows and churning out my MP3s. I built all the boxes and did all the cabling. I'm currently waiting on a card so I can build an Asterisk box and move voice onto VoIP. I have some pretty cool lan parties fragging three 18-24 year olds while we eat pizzas and drink a few beers (age for drinking is 18 here), and I built their computers cos they haven't got an interest in building them. Sound like I'm a typical geek?

Those 18-24 year olds are my sons.

I should have realised I'm too old to know how to do all this. What ever was I thinking?

Hell, the average desktop (gaming) machine today is sufficient for hosting an http://www.ltsp.org/ server capable of serving 20 concurrent users - assuming it has enough RAM. That's a *lot* of wasted resources, if you ask me...

LTSP! Allow about 300 people to run the same program with only ONE (1) license of each, and use diskless terminals. SAVE MORE, and with Open Source software. I won't say it enough! L(inux)T(erminal)S(erver)P(roject)!!!

He's the guy that converted my high-school to Open-source. And I don't mean only part of it. The whole campus is running open-source. Everyone knows has to learn how to use openoffice, icewm and shared folders as well as email to submit homework to teachers. He's the one who basically showed the efficiency of the LTSP project (here) in a private medium size organization. His actions have made it possible to have only 3 people in the IT department for the service of 250 people altogether. He's also the one who taught linux classes and helped me follow through my independent study of computer graphics. Derek is my hero, and I hope sometime he'll read this.

I nominate Jim McQuillan of the LTSP Project because this project gives the ability to run Linux on cheap hardware.

This provides a great solution for developing countries and underprivileged schools a chance to compete and contribute.

As you can see on the site, he handles the PR side of open source very well, and he still hangs around in the IRC channel and is very friendly and helpful.

might be really interesting. The 100Mbs link to power terminal servers just got fatter in comparison. In fact LTSP is already talking about it I believe. FOr those who haven't checked it out, your should. And think about their work combined with NX...

This looks like a great device!

It may just turn out to be the first Apple I ever buy.

Another big advantage is that now PC clone makers will undoubtedly start making look-alikes, which is good for everyone...

For the Apple-lovers who think this is really news, have a look at this:

http://www.ltsp.org/documentation/iopener.php

Still a good move from Apple!

I have not tryed it yet but The Linux Terminal Server Project appears nice.

Even after the Novell take over of the Linux Terminal Server Project, I believe that is still available. That will provide the most useful information that I have found for building a kiosk base system. I have personally been involved in creating a diskless kiosk that is widely used in a particular environment and know that you will have to either invest a lot of time to perfect it, or have someone else do it for you. I haven't looked at the LTSP in a while, but if they don't have what you need, they probably have a link to it.

There were some others developing clients like that before such as the Neoware systems. I had an opportunity to demo one of those. I wasn't impressed with the way the PXE boot worked, but otherwise it was ok. IBM has developed a few as well. They used to offer a kiosk like image with their Netvista 2200 products.

You should definately watch out for two things: compression types, and flash disks. Depending on the number of clients, you could face issues with using flash drives. Compression is a wonderful thing and when done properly on an image (such as knoppix) it will run just fine. One model I tested years ago tried to use gzip for the compression on the filesystem. It ran like a slug trying to cross the road with salt on his back. Knoppix is also not a bad idea. It would make a good start at an image. Just lock down certain keys in your Xdefaults file or using xmodmap (re-assign to nonworking keys essentially) and add in a front script to mozilla that forces a java based lock down of the browser when started. With that and a few small tweaks you could create a kiosk type system.

I'm the systems administrator for a university library. To provide computing for our patrons we use a mixture of Dells running Windows 2000, iMacs with OS X, and Linux machines running LTSP.

Windows can be made very secure, but it takes a lot of time to learn how to set it up properly. Over time i've accumulated lots of small utilities to aid in the task, as well as written several scripts of my own. Besides locking the system down as much as possible, i have a script that runs weekly which uses Norton Ghost to re-image the hard drive.

Macs can also be made very secure. Again, over time i've written scripts to do much of the work on new installs. Here's some URLs to get you started: macosxlabs macosxhints bombich Finally, there is Linux. These are my favorite machines because the administration time required is almost 0. We are running Linux Terminal Server Project with hardware purchased from DisklessWorkstations.com. The machines do not have write access to the server that they boot from, so nothing can get screwed up. If anything happens to a machine, we just have to reset it and a minute later it is back to normal. Setting up the first terminal took some work because i was not familiar with network booting or running an operating system from read-only media (a read-only nfs share in this case), but once the first one is set up, adding additional units is trivial. In our setup the applications actually run on the diskless station, but it is more common to run applications on the server and have them display on the diskless station. If you wanted to go that route, you'd want to spend some money on a nice server, but it should work well. I've actually been thinking of buying a better server and trying to run applications on it and eventually trying to move all computing to Linux.

Use ltsp. It's the only thing you'll need. First decide if you want a Windows solution or a Linux one. If you want to go to Linux, configure the thin clients to boot to X (trivial!). Otherwise configure it to run rdesktop in full screen mode to connect to a Windows Terminal Server (also very easy to do). Runs perfectly well here.

2) install mandrake linux official 10.0 on it

3) install ltsp 4.1 http://www.ltsp.org/ on top of it

4) get a load of old PC hardware (everything up from pentium goes, all you need is a non s3-grahic card and one spare pci-bus)

5) rid the PCs with all moving parts (leave the fans though...)

6) get pxe-booting network cards for the clients (100mbit is fine, via-rhine for example)

7) fire up.

if you want to do it with new hardware, just buy some via epia+case combos =)

Mail me for more details - I can also do the actual job if being paid =)

So our optimum solution is this: Each location will have one or more Windows 2K3 Terminal Servers (for Windows-specific apps) and one or more Linux Terminal Services Servers (LTSP and TAO-tc). The building file/print server is an Apple Xserve which can serve AFP/SMB/NFS home directories to all our clients. Those classes which need "special" computers (G5's for Graphics and Video, PCs for AutoCAD, etc.) get high-end standalone computers - everyone else gets a "thin-client".

The thin-clients net-boot off one of the Linux or Xserve boxes and start either an X-session with the LTSP server for a Gnome/KDE desktop (home directories NFS-mounted from the Xserve) or they start a full-screen rdesktop/rdp session to one of the Windows TS serves for Win2K3 desktops. You literally can't tell that it didn't just boot off the hard drive (except it only takes about 20 seconds).

So at each location (barring the few high-end standalones) we have maybe 2 windows servers to manage, secure and patch and maybe 1 or 2 Linux boxes to manage. All the clients have no moving parts and never need to be upgraded or touched - they are literally disposable. They get their configuration from our centralized dhcp server and all accounts are single-signon with kerberos through Active Directory (PeeCees won't play well with OpenLDAP :-\ ).

The only downside is that these workstations can't run the myriad mac software titles the schools have invested in. Our solution to that is to use the new CD-ROM-less eMacs. For $599 we have a bullet-proof all-in-one workstation that we net-boot off an Xserve to OS X. Home directories are auto-mounted on the desktop using Apple's Active Directory Plugin. For those users who want/need to access Linux software they can click an icon in the dock to open an X session to the Linux server and run Gnome full-screen. If they need to use windows apps they can click an icon and instantly have their desktop replaced with a windows RDP session. Same credentials, same home directories, same printers, cross-platform.

When it comes right down to it, the eMac as a terminal is the BEST choice. It can function as both a Linux and Windows desktop and run Mac apps as well and costs $599. An Intel-based thin-client costs about $200 plus a monitor ($150) = $350. It is about half the price and can "do" both Linux and Windows (and never needs to be replaced) it just can't run Mac Apps. Whereas a low-end Dell workstation with monitor runs about $600 + virus subscription + patchlink license = $630 and can ONLY run windows (I haven't found a good FREE X11 "client" app for windows yet). On top of that, assuming we don't turn it into an expensive thin-client in 4 years, it will have to be upgraded or replaced. Not to mention the headache and overhead administering stand-alone Windows boxes with their ad/spy/virus/warez problems. There's no contest.

My philosophy is you should use the best tool for the job. My primary workstation at work is a low-end Fedora Core 1 box. I don't need much because I always have multiple sessions going to the LTSP/WinTS servers (which are really fast). I also have a G4 TiBook with OS X for my mobile solution, because, again, I can literally open a fullscreen session to Linux or Windows as well as run ARD to admin Xserves.

Our students will graduate knowing how to use Macs, Linux and Windows, and be ready for ANY market. Meanwhile we are able to better manage and can afford to upgrade only a few servers. This will give our students and faculty a much better experience and, who knows, maybe even give them the courage to go home, blow away their windows box and install Linux.

Hey, it COULD happen :-)

• Reuse older equipment
• Operate diskless terminals (less moving parts, less breakage)
• Centralized Management
• Put money where it counts, in the servers and network infrastructure
• Leverage the security of Linux (No Windows boxen getting infected)

IMHO, 90% of the operations office staff and library patrons perform do not require specialized, personal PC's. Diskless "thin" clients are by far the least problematic with respect to hardware failure or OS maintenance.

Unless you absolutely require Windows clients, which I highly doubt given that most Library databases are searchable via Internet or Intranet sites, stay away from them. If the recent IE exploits hadn't scared you away yet, nothing will.

This question might seem stupid for the seasoned geek but how exactly is the setup? OK, can some slashdotter inform us whether this computer setup is running some form of ltsp? Or is it running a NoMachine found here NoMahine.com ? But I do not think so again ,because I see these 3 NVIDIA TNT2 32MB PCI VGA Cards probably hooked onto the System Unit. As slashdotters, I think we should be interested in knowing how the display gets its stuff and how exactly the OS gets shared. What about these cables to the monitors and keyboards or other peripherals? The standard ones seem to be short, i.e, users would have to be cramped very close together. I just do not get it!

Isn't LTSP exactly what you want then? I remember reading a lot of discussion about the iOpener on the mailing list when they first came out.

You said that they were running four terminals at one time. Why is that so amazing (aside from the fact that they are on one machine). You can do that with LTSP (ltsp.org) and it doesn't take as much configuration and can handle up to 32 terminals per server. Having four monitors, keyboards, and mice attached isn't very useful, especially with the added hw configuration, when you could just do it (faster) with a 200 mhz slim PC and a bootable NIC. If you spend this much money (or time) on doing something like this, wouldn't you like to be able to at least put the terminals in separate rooms? Bottom line: don't bother with the config, seize the carp (carpe dium... ;-) and get LTSP.

He's right -- the memory footprint needs to be addressed. This could potentially be one of those areas where the open source method can really shine -- you have people interested in making it prettier, more functional, etc. and you have other people that are efficiency freaks, looking for the memory hogs and slimming them down.

I'm curious as to how much of that big memory footprint (say, on a typical GNOME desktop) is code, and how much is user data. The reason I'm curious is because if the bulk of it is code (do an ldd of your favorite desktop app and see how many shared libs are linked in!) then you have a very compelling case for multiusser. All those aging doze98/NT4 desktops can become LTSP thinclients, and you put all the apps on a big server. Yes, the server needs to have a lot of memory, but not (256 MB * number of users) because all the program space is shared. You've got one copy of glib, one copy of gtk, etc. for the entire user community, instead of one copy resident on each desktop. As long as everyone is running mostly the same set of apps, the per-user delta for memory usage on the server becomes merely the amount consumed by user data.

Yes, Linux is getting bloated and we need to address that. However, when thinking about Linux as a Windows replacement, it's crucial that you have to play up Linux's strengths rather than simply rip-and-replace and try to have Linux poorly emulate Windows's strengths. One of Linux's biggest strengths is its powerful mix of good multiuser capabilities plus good network transparency at every layer of the system. This (along with lower acquisition costs, of course) is probably Linux's best available ticket to the mainstream desktop.

Low end processors, old processors, crap processors ... the problem is that people still have full-blown computers on their desks. Maybe if you're Joe Seven-Pak (you know, Joe Six-Pak's poweruser cousin) and you edit your home videos on your PC, it makes sense to have the latest and greatest. But I find it completely stupid -- actually, I find it downright obscene -- that businesses with bloody acres full of cubicle dwellers, have not embraced network computing solutions like LTSP or even Citrix. If it weren't for the damned status quo being continously hammered into people's minds by Intel and Microsoft, maybe people would realize that keeping power off the desktop and centralized behind the glass is the best way to lower the TCO of a multiuser environment.

These will probably work fine in thin clients connected to a server running a stable, multitasking, multi-user OS. Actually, they may even be overkill for that.

Imagine a tiny motherboard using one of these with a basic amount of soldered-in RAM, on-board video and NIC, and an on-board boot flash containing LTSP. Voila, a compact, cheap license-free, diskless, plug-and-play, workstation! How's that for putting Linux on the desktop?

An open hardware project, anyone?

I'm typing this on a glorifed vt100. A NiC (thinknic.com - now defunct), as a matter of fact, running LTSP. I have 4 of them (LTSP terminals - the rest are recycled Pentiums) connected to a $400 Dell 400SC. You can't get much more economical than that. It's true that Sun didn't get any of my miniscule pie, but if they weren't bent on evil, I'd be looking at Sun hardware to run hundreds of glorified vt100s for business customers (as soon as I can convince the customer that their computer doesn't need Windows to run).

1. The client broadcasts for IP and other info using PXE or Etherboot.
2. The client downloads the net bootable Linux kernel.
3. The kernel boots and mounts a read-only root FS over NFS.
4. The client self-configures and starts XFree86 v. 4.3
5. XFree86 connects to a second computer and the entire session is exported to the thin client.

Writing from an LTSP 133 Mhz 32 RAM terminal that acts like a P4!

You can visit the irc channel to talk about it :)

I translated the latest install doc to
spanish and I love LTSPing :)

This sounds very similar, except they'll be using the web as an interface, instead of X-windows.

Larger organizations really ought to be giving the X Window System a good hard look. Remember 20 years ago when the cube farm was nothing but acre upon acre of IBM 3270 terminals? Those were the days when a single desktop flunkie could service hundreds of users, because a terminal either worked or it didn't, and when it didn't, you just swapped it out for a working one.

Now it's 2004, and we have IBM behind Linux. Imagine the power of LTSP (the Linux Terminal Server Project) running on a big mainframe serving applications to hundreds, or even thousands, of LTSP client stations. This is the true power of Network Computing -- and yes, it's still a good idea. It failed in the late 1990's because the McNealy/Ellison idea of Network Computing meant that you had to throw away all your Windows applications on day one and replace them with pure Java applications. Not so with what I'm suggesting here -- you can mix Java apps, web apps, native Linux apps, and even Windows apps using your choice of emulation (Wine, etc.) or rdesktop to a Windows appserver.

The desktop as we know it needs to disappear for large installations. It makes sense for small installations, and for developers, and hackers, etc. but for your typical large office full of hundreds of nontechnical users, we need to go back to the "glass house" model of computing that worked so well for so long. And we'd be there already, if Microsoft and Intel weren't so good at preserving the inefficient, bloated status quo.

Soooooo... You want diskless workstations that run Windows, and have an X server to use LTSP? The configuration is all server side. There is no OS on the client until you flick the switch and it gets transfered from the server.

In an LTSP setup, if you want access from a Windows box, you put an X server on it, and tell it to XDMCP query the LTSP server. You've then got an LTSP client inside Windows. Look here, The only thing left to be automated is the server setup. LTSP does this in Linux, being the Linux Terminal Server Project, but there's no reason you couldn't apply the same technique to any flavour of Unix. The tricky part is the transfering of the kernel, and in the DHCP server that dishes them out. Here is a Linux Journal article on LTSP from February that explains things quite well.

The Linux Terminal Server Project is ideal for Libraries.
Not Windows XP - yuck.

As many people have suggested you will probably have to write this on your own. Users will not have access to root... is probably a good place to start.

The Linux terminal server project would be a good place to look for ideas on how to build this. In my opinion the real bang for the buck from Linux on the desktop would come from leveraging X11, NFS, and NIS or the "thin client model", to create a graphical computing environment analogous to the VAX/VMS environment for vt-220 terminals from the mid 1980s. The current implementation would centralize user file storage and application storage to few servers. And then deploy a bunch of Linux machines which attach to that storage over the network. It would be really stupid of us as a community to repeat the mistakes made in the Microsoft Windows world by adopting the broken pieces of the windows model of computing.

-- Ecks

I'm not asking the subject question to poke fun at you or flame. From your description and discerning how you plan to setup Linux on the desktop it sounds like you're missing one of the benefits of Unix because you're looking at it as a Windows admin. But I could be completely wrong.
You can set up desktop as basically a terminal using X. I know, what a waste of a desktop right? But, that's how Unix is built. You can setup a server (or multiple servers of necessary) to act as your main server and each desktop is really logging into the server using XDMCP. Or look at the Linux Terminal Server ProjectYou lock out logging into the local machine and poof! All user files are forced onto the server so there's no pesky phone calls like "Well I saved the file onto c:\pron\pron\pron\pron2\pron2 but the hard disk just went bad! YOU need to get it back for my board meeting in five minutes!" I realize this is a lot of overhead, but you can gain alot of control this way like upgrading OO.org for everyone without having to update every single desktop.

Perhaps XDMCP is too insecure for you or you have so many users that XDMCP would be too difficult. That doesn't mean you can't set it up like I've described. It just gets complicated, which means its beyond my meager expertise, but I've seen it set up that way at school.

We are just finishing off switching over our computer network to Linux - but we didn't need to wipe windows off anyone's hard drive. Here's how we did it:

• Built a small server and installed Fedora Core 1.
• Installed LTSP (Linux Terminal Server Project) and configured it for our system.
• Created boot disks for each computer that did not have a 'boot from network' option. I used Rom-O-Matic for this part.
• We also purchased some thin clients from NeoWare for new employees. These have a stripped down Linux distro on them and connect by opening a remote X connection. As our company grows, and the old pentium II and III boxes gradually die off, we will replace all of them with thin clients.

Here are the specs on the server. I have a better one being delivered soon, but this is the 'proof of concept' version:

• Emachine with 1ghz Intel celery processor
• 512MB RAM
• 80GB hard drive
• Nightly backup of home directories to external USB hard drive

The network currently supports 10 users, with usually 6-7 people signed on at any given time. We use Evolution as an outlook replacement, Open Office instead of MS office, and Mozilla for web browsing.

We have a pretty login screen with our company logo, and the face browser so you can click your picture to log in. Redhat's bluecurve desktop is great, and is a snap for any windows user to learn. The terminals start up WAY faster than windows ever did, and all the apps pop right up even on a pokey Pentium II machine. IN fact, my thin clients only have 64mb of memory and they work great too.

There were a few minor glitches or complaints about the UI, but in almost every case I was able to show the sales reps and employees how to get what they needed to do done.

So switching to linux CAN be done. The only drawback is when you've got windows apps that you have to use when there's no linux alternative. In our case, the accounting department makes extensive use of Quickbooks to handle our finances. We tried to emulate, use wine, crossover office, etc. but none of these solutions were either stable or robust enough to meet our needs. So I had to leave three boxes running windows so accounting can continue to use Quickbooks.

We also use our linux box as a Quake 2 server for lan parties after our weekly sales meetings! My boss is an older guy but he loves FPS shooters. The employees enjoy getting a chance to frag the pointy-haired guy every week :P

Heck, I'd make those dual P3's into thin-client servers and use the old P1-200s in the storage closet for the thin clients. Save a bundle that way!

Yeh the original article is about the desktop, but this thread sure seemed to be making generalizations. If they're really just desktops, then this would still be appropriate even for slow machines. Not to mention, my P166 runs ctwm and fvwm2 just fine as a desktop thanks. Since I didn't start running Linux yesterday, I know there are alternatives to Gnome and KDE that aren't nearly so bloated (admittedly KDE is working on this, but Gnome seems to not care).

I recently was looking around for backup solutions. The folks over at ltsp (ltsp) recomended mondo/mindi for a backup solution. Mindi is a linux system duplicator, however they seemed to have made a bootable Mindi CD with memtest86 allong with a few other utilities that seem quite comprehensive. Check it out here. ( mindi.iso) )

First of all, it is old hardware as you said. The advantage in that is that they can be grabbed Cheap!

Now, for uses? Let's look at my favourite - Small to Medium Enterprise (SME). (Why is it my favourite? Because there are so many of them, most of which can benefit from the following example.)

How about LTSP? I'm not suggesting that the GC is usable as a server (unless you start using load balancing) but as a Thin Client.

Imagine a stack of dirt-cheap, small, quiet little boxes in a business, in place of all of those god-awful PeeCee's that are always having to be upgraded. How much more of the IT budget can go towards strengthening the existing server solutions, to providing better systems? And in the meantime, the systems become centrally administered.

Hell, even the heat load reduction from a desktop computer will reduce the need for air conditioning - there's an environmental benefit there, too!

That's before we even look at the prospects of using them for dedicated servers - much along the same lines as an XBox.

So there are many reasons to consider them - some of which are the same as the XBox. And when it comes to streamed resources or remote application display, it doesn't matter what is under the hood as long as it is reliable.

If the GameCube is cheaper, yet more reliable than its XBox competitor, I know which I would consider using for Thin Clients.


Just because you're paranoid, it doesn't mean that the RIAA isn't out to get you...

It's not really bitmaps being flung around, either. X transfers the details of how to draw the window. The performance is passable on a 10mbit LAN, so it can't use too much bandwidth..

BTW, if remote X apps are used ONLY, it won't be a problem because all of the data will stay on the server and just the display will be seen on the client end..

Most likely if you have a PC built within the last 5 years and a compatible Ethernet card, you can use Preboot Execution Environment (PXE) to boot from the network.

(Though the article referenced refers to Linux, the spec is OS independent. It is, in fact, used by Win2k's RIS, and can be used on computers without any hard drive at all.)

Actually a really good choice for schools is LTSP. My senior project currently is on creating an LTSP lab...and one very good thing about it(besides the standard securities of linux and redhat) is that you can have one central server( in our case a 2.6 p4 w/hyper threading, and 1.5 gigs of ram)and run many crappy computers(more than 20, with good results) that don't even need to be fast....this idea can save the school districts TONS of money and possibly time also.

I do this for a PK3-8th grade school on 80 or so machines of P200 vintage.

The administration likes the money saved, the kids like it better than Win 9x and some of the teachers like it. The rest of the teachers either tolerate it or hate it.

As for the teachers that hate it, they're lazy and hate anything that's different. I actually had a science "teacher" object to using an OpenOffice book as she didn't like reading.

While we've got all this great technology, teachers simply don't make good use of it. They prefer to "train" students for the job market (this school goes to 8th grade...) by making them do presentations (OpenOffice Impress) rather than teaching them to WRITE.

I teach 7th grade very basic programming using Logo. Better than teaching them to simply click buttons...

If you want to see examples of this happening right now, google for 'thin client' or citrix. If you want to see examples of people who have done this for decades, google instead for 'dumb terminal' , '3270' etc.... Server centric computing has been around for years. You can buy a current model thin client for $299 (maybe less) that does not store any data locally, and boots from an image delivered across a network. Load Citrix, or an open source equivalent like LTSP (Linux Terminal Server Project) on a server, connect your thin clients to the LAN, and compute away.

I mean, really. This is sort of on the level of "BSD is dead" by now. Oh, wait...

Sorry if i'm rude, but either you are trolling or just having been paying attention. This subject comes up every 4-6 weeks.

The reality is that 99.9% of X applications have both the client application and X server on the same machine

Are you sure? Do you have anything at all to back up that claim? Thin client are becoming quite popular. Checkout the Linux Terminal Server Project, which can be implemented on commodity x86 hardware, using standard Linux distros and the denounced X network tranparentcy.

So why have such a complicated networking layer to draw a window on a screen? Seems like a lot of unnecessary overhead to me.

There's no overhead with X being network transparent. If client and server is on the same machine, X uses UNIX sockets, not INET sockets. Any sane implementation of a graphics system, would use a similar approch in this day and age, and there is simply no performace gain in removing network transparentcy from X.