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The masked palm civet cat in Southern China is largely a herbivore. When I was scouting in many years ago, the rangers in Hongkong forest park taught me how to spot these animals. They leave indigested seed/fruit skin with their faeces. They are dubbed as "fruit ferret" in the local language.... Having said that, when transforming to a largely urban life, there are lots of habits that needs to be given up. Some activities make perfect sense in farming society no longer apply in industrial region... I think the consumption of wild animal is one of the example... Hunting is probably the other... Both western and oriental society need to go through these phases.... give us some time.


Info on Civet Cat, Found to Have SARS
* TRAITS: Of the family Viverridae, the civet cat is a primarily nocturnal animal closely related to the mongoose. There are several species. Some are carnivores that live on the ground, while the animals with SARS in China are masked palm civets, which live in trees and eat fruit.

Plagiarism per say is not against the law, but copyright law does grant authors specific derivative rights that overlap. Next to the DMCA (and mandated DRM), I've come to feel the worst part of current copyright law is the over expansion of these derivative rights.

To take the parent post's example of a 10 year old creating their own Pokemon characters, technically that is illegal. It is also the way people learn and is very natural to society.

I saw a recent op-ed by Richard Posner, a 7th Court of Appeal's Judge, called The Truth About Plagiarism. I think it is worth reading.

There is a saying in the gun owners world.
"When guns are outlawed only outlaws will have guns"

Another take on that same saying is,
"When guns are outlawed only governments will have guns."

Now we are left to consider this, take the above statements and substitute "non-TCPA PC's" for "guns" and mull it over for awhile.

Remember in "1984" when Winston goes to meet O'Brien at the "Ministry of Love" for O'Brien to give Winston the latest copy (Ninth edition) of the NewSpeak Dictionary?

As they are standing there O'Brien reaches down and turns off the viewscreen. Winston gasps in shock, "You can.......?"
O'Brien, "Yes, we're allowed that privledge."

One set of rules for the little people, another set of rules for the rulers. You can be certain that they will pass a law making it illegal to connect non-TCPA devices to any network. The super DMCA (state versions) are the groundwork for such laws.

Remember Spock, "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the one." ?? That's the mindset of the law makers. The laws that are on the table now and that are still in gestation (still haven't seen sunshine yet) are all designed to strip people of personal rights and personal freedoms for the "common good of the people" read people as "state"...
We have a New Soviet Union in the making here.
Why else would they import former KGB General Yevgeni Primakov to setup an internal US passport system?
KGB General Yevgeni Primakov hired for Homeland Security
and, New Powers to Snoop Sought

Ever notice the FREQUENT use of the word "czar" when describing government posts? Doesn't that ring odd with anyone??
One must wake up and rub the sleepy dust out of his eyes to see what is happening. People are too busy worrying about keeping the tank topped off on their SUV, or planted too deeply into that fat leather couch in front of the idiot box to notice, much less understand what is happening right in front of their face..

And then I leave you with this parting thought.
"He who has all the guns makes the rules."

The sled was designed to cover the first 1.4 miles in 4.65 seconds, then speed up in the final stages and cover 1.8 miles in 1.3 seconds, Kurtz said. At the end, bolts were detonated to allow the missile to detach from the sled and successfully hit its target.

I wonder if this has military implications?

As a volunteer firefighter 10 minutes from the City line, it's depressing and disturbing to hear that the City's funds are so mismanaged that eight FDNY firehouses have to be closed.

I read that an exotic open-air animal market in Guangzhou, China is being investigated by WHO as possibly having something to do with the origin of the illness. (That story taught me a new word I didn't even know- zoonosis. It sounds like a good name for a band.)

Which isn't too hard to believe. Anyone who has watched any Nature episode on an endangered animal species has seen the part at the end that goes like this:

Unfortunately, the future of the [insert weird species here] is far from certain, because it is considered a delicacy in certain Asian countries.

(There's also a less common variant of the Nature show ending, where the species is an aphrodisiac and not a delicacy.)

Basically, the issue is that in Guangzhou, China there is a famous wet market where dozens of different animal species are for sale- rodents, birds, alligators, cats, badgers, dogs, porcupines, pigs, snakes, turtles, and other delicacies. They come from all over the world. They aren't frozen and packed or anything like that- they're running and fluttering around in their cages when you pick them out. Some of them have chewed their limbs off in attempts to escape traps. They are either butchered on the spot or you take them home still alive and kill them yourself. The emphasis is on freshness.

Of course this grossed out the tourists, not to mention the people who make Nature documentaries. So the Chinese authorities (in typical fashion) cracked down on the market two years ago by forcing it to move out of sight of foreigners. It was moved from an outdoor park setting into an enclosed building two years ago. WHO thinks the move to an indoor setting would have made the risk of zoonosis worse.

The first known SARS patient got sick in November. He lived 12 miles away, but had been in Guangzhou and received treatment there.

Take a peek at this as I would not at all trust Symbol Technolgies with anything IT related.
Check the head lines here: Symbol Technologies in the news

Take a look at this: Former Symbol Technologies Exec Pleads Guilty to Fraud. Its just the tip of the iceberg.
Symbol Severance Assailed
Critics: Delay $2M payment to ex-CEO

I had worked for their manufacturing team on Long Island, NY from 97-99 & did web development/IT stuff for them from 99-2001. The IT management is clearly incompetent & personal greed (not even greed to make the company better) is their God. Since distribution of their own personal performance related bonuses hinged on how budgets were spent (IT hardware: replacement HDs, etc; salaries; job related tools: like having pagers or cell phones for those on call) they cut the budgets like MAD.

They killed off pagers for the sysadmin team. Yet, they had to remain on call/available if necessary. They took IT staff on salary (off hourly wages) & then demanded that they work an absolute minimum of 45 hours a week. So some staff left & that meant that the work load for the existing staff went up but salaries didn't scale. "Oh, we can give you comp time." But the rub was that you have to ask permission to use your comp time. Since the work load went up, you can't use your comp time.

They killed the budget for replacement hardware. They had a good system for deploying a PC (Norton Ghost or a hardware HD copier) but they had no $$$ to buy a new HD or a new switch 'cause the old one gets smoked on Monday logins.

They ignored Java & ColdFusion as a means of developign internal systems and instead chose VB/ActiveX, MS IE, IIS, & even MS ACCESS for their three-tier system.

They have moved 95% of all their manufacturing to Renosa, Mexico. This company used to run radio ads on how it has helped Long Island & specifically the town of Brookhaven. They laid off their manufacturing workforce (both engineering & assembly) in order to cuts manufacturing costs.

TOMO RAZMILOVIC ex-CEO, This asshat ran the company into the ground & then gets a servance package. About half of the folks that were laid off received 2 months salary & then they got 6 months of New York State Unemployment. This jackass' contract gives him $2 million. WTF is up with that?!?!

SARS is a big deal. It has a mortality rate of about 4% and this is with suspected patients rushed to hospital, pumped full of advanced antiviral drugs and kept in the best intensive care money can buy. Its mortality rate is much higher in untreated cases. It seems to be at least as virulent as the flu.

Do the math. The flu, which has a mortality rate of only 1-2%, kills hundreds of thousands around the world each year. If SARS is not successfully contained, millions will die, mostly in the third world which does not have the kind of medical care available in Singapore.

SARS is still spreading. The outbreak is not over yet. If it reaches densely populated poor urban centres like Calcutta, Rio de Janeiro, or the projects in LA, Chicago or New York, all hell will break loose. This is bigger than some minor conflict in Iraq. This is serious shit.

You should be thankful that cities like Singapore, Hong Kong and Toronto are trying so hard to keep SARS under control. Singapore and Hong Kong are the world's two busiest seaports and both are major air transport hubs. They are now the world's bulwark against contagion and if they fail millions will die.

Singapore is the best equipped city in the world to weather the storm. She is a first world country, with per capita GDP equal to the UK. She has the best health care system in the world.

The country is highly controlled and regulated. I am all for civil rights and freedom, but this is one of those times that strong authority is needed to enforce quarantines and stop people acting stupidly. The government is on the ball, among other things shutting down schools, imposing mandatory screening at the airport, and even deploying the army to stop SARS. Honestly, if Singapore cannot contain SARS, the world is fucked.

As an aside, most of the SARS deaths in Singapore are health care workers working with those infected with SARS at the hospital where they are all being concentrated in. I salute the duty, bravery and valor of these men and women.

It's hard to blame them. Iraqi units have forced civilians to run in front of their advancing allied units in attacks against allied troops. They have faked surrenders and then ambushed troops who came to accept the surrender. Hospitals and schools are being used to store military equipment. Iraqi soldiers have abandoned their uniforms and are fighting in civilian clothing. American and British soldiers are risking their own lives to protect Iraqi civilians despite the best efforts of Iraqi soldiers and militia fighters (and anti-America media) to pin civilian deaths as the fault of coalition forces.

Iraqi Combatants Dressed as Civilians

"We were engaged from the city by

people dressed up in civilian clothes with AK-47s ... that's when I was shot in the hand," the 21-year-old corporal explained.

Menard pointed out that local Iraqi civilians had at first seemed happy to see the Marines. That changed, he noted, when the civilians "turned on us and started firing on us."

And, some of the enemy's fire came from a nearby hospital, the Marine remarked.
...
The Army sergeant pointed out that neither he nor his fellow troops want to kill civilians or innocent people in Iraq. However, Horgan noted, the circumstance of Iraqi fighters dressing up as civilians is "going to make it really difficult for us to discern who is 'good' or 'bad.' That's a shame."

Iraqi Civilians Blow up U.S. Troops in Suicide Attacks

Four U.S. soldiers were blown up by a suicide bomber posing as a taxi driver Saturday.

...
Iraqi soldiers have disguised themselves as civilians. They have faked surrendering to get the jump on coalition troops. They have used civilians as human shields.

And now they are sending out suicide bombers. An Iraqi official warned Saturday that suicide attacks would be "routine military policy."

In spite of the enemies' treacherous tactics...

Two U.S. Soldiers Survive Week in Desert... and nearly starve after giving away most of their food to needy Iraqis.

The soldiers said they were stranded when their truck's clutch failed on the way to tow an officer's Humvee that had broken down as the division was traveling toward Baghdad. They said a staff sergeant had ordered them to wait, and said they would be picked up.

No one did. So the two dug trenches to defend their position, and took turns on watch.

They gave most of their food to hungry Iraqi civilians, and watched nervously as white vehicles - a trademark of Saddam Hussein's paramilitary Fedayeen - passed by. Koppi had become a father 10 days before he was deployed, and he wrote poems to his wife.

"It has been weeks since we have spoken, I know her heart is close to broken," went one couplet.

You know the famous picture of a U.S. Army medic carrying an Iraqi boy?

The child in his photo was hit in the leg by shrapnel after

he and his family were used as a human shields by Iraqi irregulars.
...
Mr. Zinn said the story began early on Tuesday morning, after the Third Squadron of the Seventh Cavalry spent a night of non-stop ambushes as it worked its way north along the Euphrates River towards Baghdad.

"We'd spent about 24 hours being ambushed left and right.... I was sleeping in the back of

• Second, since the bush administration has consistently lied about the status of what's happening,

The National Transportation Safety Board pulled investigators pulled people from the Flight 587 probe to help out on the Columbia investigation. NTSB Field Investigators, unfortunately, are experienced with finding the cause from many sometimes grisly pieces of data.
They also know what to bring, what to do, where to go and what to ask. And of course, they known how to extract data from Flight Data Recorders Interestingly, the NTSB issued recommendations that Require retrofit after January 1, 2005, of all cockpit voice recorders (CVRs) [...] [be] fitted with an independent power source [...] that provides 10 minutes of operation whenever aircraft power to the recorder ceases. Just one of the things the NTSB fights the FAA over :-)

But remember the "Black box" (OEX recorder) on the shuttle is very different from a CVR.

The National Transportation Safety Board pulled investigators pulled people from the Flight 587 probe to help out on the Columbia investigation. NTSB Field Investigators, unfortunately, are experienced with finding the cause from many sometimes grisly pieces of data.
They also know what to bring, what to do, where to go and what to ask. And of course, they known how to extract data from Flight Data Recorders Interestingly, the NTSB issued recommendations that Require retrofit after January 1, 2005, of all cockpit voice recorders (CVRs) [...] [be] fitted with an independent power source [...] that provides 10 minutes of operation whenever aircraft power to the recorder ceases. Just one of the things the NTSB fights the FAA over :-)

But remember the "Black box" (OEX recorder) on the shuttle is very different from a CVR.

Or, if you live in Texas, it can be adult Johnny and adult Tyron.

That aside, I think your idea is brilliant, if horrible for the time honored tradition of kids fooling around and more "too early".

Besides - this works for situations like adult Sammy and little Suzy...

Well, that list doesn't have nearly the weight as countries actually devoting troops, money or material. Just saying, "Yeah, we got your back, you go on," is just those countries covering diplomatic bases with the U.S. A lot of the poor ones still need aid money and the economic goodwill of the US government. A good number of their leaders and a majority of their people still condemn the war effort, publically even. It's rather disingenuous of some of the Republican leadership to state that this Coalition is bigger than Gulf War I.

GW1: 425K US, 35K British, 20K Saudi Arabian, 9800 French, 1700 Canadian, 2K Moroccan, 35K Egyptian, 8K Pakistani, 70K Syrians, 100K Turkish (on their borders), 6K from Bangladesh, Niger and Senegal sent 500 men apiece, Honduras 150 troops, and 450 from Argentina.
GW2 has 300K US, 45K British, 2K Australian and 200 each from 4 or 5 others.

Lawrence J. Korb -- a former assistant secretary of defense in the Reagan administration said to Salon, "We made a profit last time for heaven's sake. It didn't cost us a nickel." Conversely, this time "nobody's giving us any money, as far as I can see." Yale University economist William Nordhaus, author of one of the most detailed private sector analyses of the Iraq war's possible costs, estimated the full bill for the Persian Gulf conflict could range between $99 billion and $1.92 trillion, including the price of fighting the war, occupying Iraq afterward and rebuilding the country. But you're right at least so far as print media goes, even Foxnews.com says estimates run from $100 billion to $1.6 trillion.

Also, 1441 wasn't sold to the UN nations as being a pretext for war. Several diplomats report they were assured of this by the U.S. and there would be another UN vote before a war began. Hell, Bush even committed to going through another vote "no matter what the whip count is" during his press conference last week and bailed on it.

In other news ... ;) the last I read on Turkey is that they were holding up on flyover rights due to disputes about whether they were allowed to send troops into Iraq to make sure the Kurds don't form their own state. (Just read a bit more on this, looks like we're giving them $15 billion and allowing them to deploy 25K-30K troops into Kurdish-controlled areas of Northern Iraq for flyover rights. The Kurds have vowed to fight any Turkish presence. Looks like those Kurdish troops might not materialize to fight Iraq-proper after all.)

One reason I hate the media, only 2 stories I can find on yesterdays Turkish vote talking about troop deployment concessions. One here states the $15 billion expected for the flyover rights. The other one here says how Colin Powell has stated they will not pay for flyover rights.

This story explains how that works and who's behind it.

Bingo. Her fawning, and it was fawning, over these world leaders compromises her journalistic integrity. That's news, and that's why this hit the front page of Slashdot and Metafilter. If there is any justice, it should hit her newspaper. (It hasn't. Anyone writing for Newsday want a scoop?)

I found some of Laurie Garrett's articles from Newsday and compared the writing style to the email. Some erie similaries, most notably the excessive use of commas...

From Newsday Article
Some researchers insist all of the drugs, or one particular element of HIV treatment, is responsible. Some argue, it's simply HIV itself, finding new ways to destroy those it infects...

When drugs are switched, the viruses mutate back into their prior, tougher forms, and the illness worsens.

Though the prices of most anti-HIV drugs have come down considerably in recent years, and generic forms are available for as little as $300 a year in some poor countries, the overall price tag of HIV treatment in the United States is rising.


From the Email
I attended a small lunch with
Ashcroft, and observed Ralph Reed

It's run by about 5,000
bickering, sometimes charming, usually arrogant, mostly male people who
are accustomed to living in either phenomenal wealth, or great personal
power....And, most importantly to the WEF, it means flourishing free trade and
support for entrepeneurs with minimal state regulation.

Her name is Laurie Garrett she works for Newsday, she's a well known journalist/writer.

http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/wire/sns-a p-snowball-shooting0225feb25,0,2226125.story?coll= sns-ap-nationworld-headlines - Link, of a URL that actually works!

...Wooops, I suck... here's a better link: Snowball Fight Shooting

Ahh, here it is, in Newsday from January 11th.

Not to worry. I think Saddam may be recruiting a new posse as it is.

I wouldn't have a problem with it here in the U.S. if it was, as someone said, 1/10th of a cent!

Of course, looking back to reality, it would go to causes
I differ on.

Sigh, when I was younger, you could do a search on "Bush" and come up with, um, things, other than politics.

or $51.1 million a year. That's a sizeable amount of cash

You and I would love to have $51.1 million dollars. However, I'll quote the following from NY Newsday:

----

With the decision announced yesterday, up to six anti-missile interceptors will be installed at Fort Greely and four more at Vandenberg Air Force Base in California by the end of 2004. As many as 10 more interceptors will be added to the Alaska site by the end of 2005. They are designed for use against long-range missiles. In addition, between 10 and 20 sea-based interceptors for use against short- and medium-range missiles will be deployed on three U.S. Navy Aegis vessels by 2005.

Kadish said that the deployment would cost $17.5 billion over the next two years, but that $16 billion had already been budgeted to fund the testing program. Critics say the cost of the program could eventually soar into the hundreds of billions.

----

OK, now we're talking about $17.5 billion dollars for 30-40 (35) missiles to be deployed. DEPLOYED, not R&D. We're talking $25 million per missile here. So they could deploy one missile per year, every year, for 18 years in order to stop 2/3's of the missiles that some country might launch against them. Yay!

I'm not sure what you mean? The AP is just another conduit of news, and a prolific one with unusual weight in smaller newspapers.

If you mean bylines, AP has provided them since about WWII. Subscribers can omit the byline at will. The author was Mark Sherman.

While it may be safer than your house, keep in mind that banks usually do not insure safety deposit boxes, and they are often not liable if the box is destroyed (e.g., at the WTC).

which one? flying window or cloud or butterfly or enormous-white-capital-lettters or mickey mouse ears?

in a local paper. It said that the Roomba couldn't completely replace your standard vacumm. It doesn't do stairs, and it has no attachments for things like furniture upholstery, etc. The article basically said it was good if you lived in a small place such as an apartment or didn't have kids, but if you need to do heavy duty cleaning, the 'bot wasn't gonna repalce your standard vac.

Watch out one fine soul in Long Island was recently arrested for inciting panick for sending a brown envelope with newspaper ad clippings for the long island power authority along with his bill. Some idi^h^h^h person in their mail room thought it was an anthrax attack because he put lipa sucks on the outside. He was actually arrested and now has to pay a lawyer to defend himself. Not only that but when he went in to pick up his court summons they threw him in jail overnight on a 23 year old walking a dog without a leash violation!!!!! For more info see this article.

I'm not a gunsmith either, and I agree that one railroads when it's time to railroad, but take a look at this article about Pakistani gunsmiths. These guys are blowing charcoal with a manual bellows and making AK's.

Hey, national Talk like a Pirate Day is the 19th, you're 2 days early.

It is impossible for man to organize his social life without repressions, and the balance has yet to struck between order and freedom.

As the Associated Press summarizes them:

Overview of Changes to Legal Rights
By The Associated Press

September 5, 2002, 11:44 AM EDT

Some of the fundamental changes to Americans' legal rights by the Bush administration and the USA Patriot Act following the terror attacks:

* FREEDOM OF ASSOCIATION: Government may monitor religious and political institutions without suspecting criminal activity to assist terror investigation.

* FREEDOM OF INFORMATION: Government has closed once-public immigration hearings, has secretly detained hundreds of people without charges, and has encouraged bureaucrats to resist public records requests.

* FREEDOM OF SPEECH: Government may prosecute librarians or keepers of any other records if they tell anyone that the government subpoenaed information related to a terror investigation.

* RIGHT TO LEGAL REPRESENTATION: Government may monitor federal prison jailhouse conversations between attorneys and clients, and deny lawyers to Americans accused of crimes.

* FREEDOM FROM UNREASONABLE SEARCHES: Government may search and seize Americans' papers and effects without probable cause to assist terror investigation.

* RIGHT TO A SPEEDY AND PUBLIC TRIAL: Government may jail Americans indefinitely without a trial.

* RIGHT TO LIBERTY: Americans may be jailed without being charged or being able to confront witnesses against them.

Copyright © 2002, The Associated Press

Yay for liberty and freedom! We are Americans! Look how free we are!

Newton must have another law where quite=definitely

Overview of changes to legal rights:
By The Associated Press

September 5, 2002, 11:44 AM EDT

Some of the fundamental changes to Americans' legal rights by the Bush administration and the USA Patriot Act following the terror attacks:

• FREEDOM OF ASSOCIATION: Government may monitor religious and political institutions without suspecting criminal activity to assist terror investigation.
• FREEDOM OF INFORMATION: Government has closed once-public immigration hearings, has secretly detained hundreds of people without charges, and has encouraged bureaucrats to resist public records requests.
• FREEDOM OF SPEECH: Government may prosecute librarians or keepers of any other records if they tell anyone that the government subpoenaed information related to a terror investigation.
• RIGHT TO LEGAL REPRESENTATION: Government may monitor federal prison jailhouse conversations between attorneys and clients, and deny lawyers to Americans accused of crimes.
• FREEDOM FROM UNREASONABLE SEARCHES: Government may search and seize Americans' papers and effects without probable cause to assist terror investigation.
• RIGHT TO A SPEEDY AND PUBLIC TRIAL: Government may jail Americans indefinitely without a trial.
• RIGHT TO LIBERTY: Americans may be jailed without being charged or being able to confront witnesses against them.

It's even worse when they say "So?"

Here are several examples for you.

your country's new changes to the US Patriot Act is limiting all the fun stuff you used to be able to do. Take a look at this website.

As would be expected, most people vote yes, because they read the article and don't pay attention to the actual wording of the poll.

Since I remembered the lawsuit by Monsanto, I entered into Google:

farmer sued genetically corn patented

And these articles came forth:

The farmer's page
Article"
Another
Another
Tale of the Absurd
Monsano wins
Commentary
and on...
and on...
Comment
Good ol' Mother Jones

Y'all see, there is a damned good chance that such corn will contaminate the other crops, and then Monsanto or whomever will own their souls. Or GNP, whatever works.

I'm surprised that the Canadian case isn't common knowledge. Then again, it wasn't exactly Evening News material for the U.S. No network news department head wants to seem "liberal" nowadays, which translates to "damned few stories critical of corporations" (balance), which of course is not connected to trying to please conservative corporate owners who have become quite.... proactive in their news departments of late.

The submitter of the item is correct in identifying IP lawsuit threats as an important datum in the decision to decline the food, even if the article cited doesn't make a point of it. An informed person would already know about the enormous lawsuit potential, and add that to the stack.

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WASH POST: Bush Admin Split over Iraq...

IRAQ 'CLOSE TO NUCLEAR BOMB GOAL'

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Really bad, and totally wrong, analogy. Since, let me make this clear - the President does not write legislation, does not introduce legislation into session, does not vote on legislation. The President of the United Fucking States does NOT MAKE LAW. Period. Capiche?

Likewise, I am aware of the bill to which I believe you are refering. It is set to increase the jail-time (to a max of 20 and 25 years). I refer to it in my original post on this thread: "He creates a task force, and doubles the (very small) penalties for this sort of thing." is pretty stupid. The only thing the President CAN do is create a task force, and he CAN'T increase penalties because that takes an act of LAW, which requires Congress. He can suggest, and Bush has suggested, and signed into law a bill passed by Congress, that corporate fraud penalties be increased to 25 years. The average sentence for murder in the US is SEVEN YEARS. You think 25 for white collar crime is too light?

As to seizure of assets: here
here
and here.

Now, I'm really sorry if I'm being a prick about all this, but this ignorant, uninformed bullshit really pisses me off. Derek

proof

sig: My $0.02 will always be worth more than your 0.02, so :P

OK, let's go through the procedure that protects us from the valid concern in your last paragraph, and then we'll look at sources. Were this simply a case of `anyone declared an enemy of the state can be turned over to the military', you would be quite right to object, but that is not the case.

Long standing precedent, going back to before the war of 1812, and with corresponding cases in the Civil War and the Second World War makes clear that military law is the proper jurisdiction for trying cases of an individual entering the US in the service of a hostile power in order to commit acts of law. As cited above, Ex Parte Quirin upholds the established precedent that such cases are a matter for military justice even if the suspect is a US citizen, but also leaves room for civilian court appeals of the decision that a case falls in this category.

Mr. al-Muhajir, ne Padilla, is filing just such an appeal right now.here in New York. If the court rules that there is not valid evidence to classify him as an enemy combatant, he will be remanded to a civilian court. At that point, the DOJ can either seek to bring other charges, or release him.

So this is not something which can happen lightly. In addition to the direct order from the president which is needed to classify a suspect as an enemy combatant, the whole process is subject to judicial review in the normal federal courts.

Now, on to sources. Here are some more articles on the matter:

• this piece from Newsday
• suggests that Mr. al-Muhajir was held on a material witness warrant before being charged.
• this piece from the Baltimore Sun discusses some of the precedents in the case, and what the government's options are, as does this piece from National Review.
• this piece from USA Today has some more discussion of the case.

Some articles with more information:

A piece from NewsDay, which among other details, confirms that Mr. al-Muhajir had legal representation in New York, and adds that a legal hearing is being held today to confirm his status. This article also suggests that Mr. Muhajir was initially detained on a material witness warrant.

A piece from the Baltimore Sun suggests that the government is rethinking use of military law in this case, and discusses some of the precedents in either direction.

A piece from USA Today suggests that al-Muhajir's lawyers are almost certainly proceeding with a habeaa corpus petition, and points out that regardless of venue, no one is suggesting that he does not have a right to do so. It is also pointed out that the primary ramification of a ruling that Mr. Muhajir is an enemy combatant would not be a new venue of trial per se, but permission to hold him until the end of hostilities.

I'm still looking for more definitive word on the legal maneuvers already pursued and still open in the case. None of this is new precedent -- as mentioned earlier in this thread, many of the details were hashed out during the Second World War, when a group of German spies, including a handful of US citizens was infiltrated from submarine into the continental US with plans to wreak havoc by bombing Jewish-owned stores and other civilian targets.

You know, as someone who has spent most of his life trapped on the wrong side of Manhattan, that artist's conception of the Gibraltar bridge over NYC doesn't seem like such a bad idea.

Of course, a similarly impresive tunnel under the Long Island Sound would be much more practical. As I understand it, it would be a very reasonable undertaking from a financial and technical standpoint (unlike other crossings mentioned here), but it's being blocked by NIMBY issues. Idiots.

Are here and here. It looks like not everyone is buying into the hype of this thing.

Text:
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20011112/ts/plane_ crash_dc_1.html
http://www.cnn.com/2001/US/11/12/newyork.crash/ind ex.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2001/11/12/nyregion/12WIRE- PLANE.html
http://www.usatoday.com/hlead.htm
http://www.reuters.com/news_article.jhtml;jsession id=GX1YUYCNLN1WQCRBAE0CFFAKEEATGIWD?type=topnews&S toryID=365206
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A147 84-2001Nov12.html
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,38565,00.html
http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/wire/sns-a p-plane-crash1112nov12.story?coll=sns%2Dap%2Dnatio nworld%2Dheadlines

Video:
http://www.abcnews.go.com/sections/us/popoff/Daily News/STREAM1_video_popoff/index.html

Unless you actually don't want to become a country in a permanent state of war, there's no problem with this.

What part of "until the pyramid scheme fails" do you not understand?

For more information read about the Irish 'troubles'.

The IRA is the organization that just disarmed itself, right? You were saying?

Besides, each side in that conflict wanted peace. The only question is under what terms. I think negotiation can work in many situations. Al Qaeda isn't one of them.

It's not a problem if you're happy to go in and cause massive civilian death, but if what you want is quick resolution and the resumption of peace with minimum civilian casualties, then you need to persuade both sides that shooting at each other just causes problems.

Let's work backwards through your statement. Since we cannot persuade them to accept peaceful coexistance, a quick resolution with minimal civilian casualties is impossible, so we have no choice but to accept massive civilian death. That is the reality, deal with it.

Of course, we aleady new we had no choice but to accept massive civilian deaths, since 6000 of our civilians are already dead and it is impossible to undo this fact.

What we can affect is which civilians die as a result of their hatred. The ones that take up arms to fight us seem like good choices. I'm told that 5,000 Pakistanis are preparing to cross into Afghanistan. I would drop cluster bombs on them once they get a couple miles across the border.

And can we really blame the architects of the WTC for not making the building plane-proof? No, I think they performed "reasonably" well.

Actually (my wife is an architect) the buildings WERE designed to be plane-proof...as long as the plane was a 707 or smaller and not loaded with as much fuel as the 9/11 planes were. Here's a story where the architect is quoted. You just have to set limits somewhere (as is your point) as to how far you can go. You obviously can't design the building to withstand the equivalent of a kiloton of TNT...I mean, sure you could, but it simply wouldn't be practical.