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RIAA Now Targeting Retailers
merodach writes "According to this story on Headlinenews.com the RIAA is now targeting retailers in it's 'war on piracy.' I think everyone will agree this is something that should be done if the retailer is deliberately pirating. The thing I wonder about in hearing this news is how many of the retailers include used copy stores. With the way the RIAA and some artists *cough*Garth Brooks*cough* have labeled these stores as pirates and theives in the past it seems likely they would be the biggest targets. Have any in the /. crowd actually seen one of the letters sent or know how many of the targeted businesses are used stores? Further - how would the RIAA know how much to demand in 'settlement fees' and is it possible these are being used to shut down the mom-and-pop outfits that trade in used CDs?"
How long is it going to take for the public to finally realize that the RIAA is everything that represents soulless and wrong in music today?
No TiVo and no caffeine make me something something...
I can see it now....
you have bought the new Britney Spears CD...congratulations on your excellent choice and fine musical selection...
LEGALESE: - This CD may not be resold or reproduced in any matter...opening this CD certifies that you agree to this stipulation.
----
and the legal warning will be on the inside of the CD...bastards..
on the bright side, that should galvanize mainstream support against them...maybe only a small percentage download mp3's, but I'm willing to be a higher proportion of people use used mom and pop shops....if for no other reason then to acquire out of print material...shut those down and America will maybe open their eyes...
of course...they do buy Britney Spears...how smart can they be...
RB
----------
ah honey, we're all resplendent - Bill Mallonee
How about a rumour about used record stores, in Chicago, being required to ID used record purchasers???
Anyone have details about this? I can't find anything on google. Who is the "they?" Is this Illinois law, or Chicago or Cook County? Is this even true that I would have to have my photo and SSN taken when I buy a used DVD? Are the RIAA and MPAA behind this? What the hell is going on?
Call me a cynic, but this is a handy opportunity to:
"Einstein argued that [...] God is not capricious or arbitrary. No such faith comforts the software engineer." ~ Brooks
Commercial outlets (valid copyright infringers) is where they SHOULD have started with in the beginning!
Back-in-the-day it would torque me to no end buying discount tapes (cassett thank you) in retail stores, only to open them and find they were obvious, cheep bootlegs even before playing them twice before breaking.
Eve Fairbanks says I drive a hybrid!LOL
Those mom and pop stores are merely selling plastic and aluminium disks...They are not selling/ the rights to play those disks in a CD player.
Now, if I remember correctly, 90% of record companies belong to the RIAA. What about the 10%? what gives the RIAA the right to pretend to represent that last 10%?
Sig (appended to the end of comments you post, 120 chars)
I went to WalMart the other day and was told by the manager that it was against the DMCA to allow returns or refunds of computer software and/or CDs.
:-/
It took a while (and I had to go pretty far up the chain of command) to assure them that Congress never wrote "All businesses have to give refunds/returns except WalMart" in the DMCA.
Something to be on the look-out for.
Someone put a black hole in my pocket and now I'm broke.
But I'm so damn disgusted with the whole mess I don't even bother. In the napster heyday I was buying music like crazy. More than I had in years. I'm in my 40's and way out of the demographic for music comsumers, but I was downloading on napster and finding new music and buying cd's like I was a teen again. Since the riaa nonsence I've stoped buying cd's (althoug I did become a member of emusic, what a great collection of jazz and blues. actually I see emusic as the worlds largest cut out bin.) I refuse to buy my teenage daughter any cd's this christmas. screw the greed of the record companies. And to top it off, my mother bought some crappy cd at target that refuses to play in her older cd player. she's returned it twice and they refuse to give her a refund. I just can't believe how insanely stupid the record companies are. treating your customers like thieves and criminals is no way to run a business... but a perfect way to ruin one. fark the record companies right in the arse. they desirve it. morons.
The article just talks about *counterfeit* copies.
RTFA first.
I think it's good they turn to something they can actually enforce. It's much easier to walk into Bob's Illegal CDs and bust the poor Bob than some dynamically assigned IP of a poor script kiddy.
[sarcastick grin]Go RIAA[/sarcastic grin]
I hate the fact that you people don't salute me
Could the speculation please be saved for the comments page? The blurb for the article is about 1/3 informative, and 2/3 wild speculation about how it's an evil attempt to shut down used music stores (even though the article said nothing about it.)
How can we continue to believe in a just universe and freedom to eat crackers if we have no ale?
Further proof to feed the engine that says the RIAA/MPAA are paranoid and greedy.
Biting the hand that feeds isn't particularly the smartest move they could make, I mean it is retailers that sell their product, and they are the reason that retailers went over to selling used CDs on the side. It allows them to get by the high margins that the RIAA/MPAA set. If the RIAA had reasonable pricing that still allowed for the media retailers to put a comfortable margin on top for their operating costs and keep the prices under $15 (which we all know they could) then there wouldn't be as many shops going the used CD route.
There is plenty of room for everyone to make money, but the RIAA isn't interested in sharing, by keeping prices artificially high the RIAA makes it so that only the very big chains can afford to sell their products and actually make money (through bulk orders). They choke out the smaller stores, and then only have a few large, very sue-able, entities in which to do buisness. THis way they can control the distribution almost as much (if not as much) as they do the production.
but thats just my take on the situation.
"If I were bound by all laws everywhere I'm sure I would have committed a capital crime somewhere."
I say Hillary should go on down to the Salvation Army and get into a fight with a drunk about whether or not he can buy those "New Kids on The Block" and "Menudo" cassettes.
Maybe they'll take her in the back room and beat her head with a 40 Oz. 'till the white meat shows.
Sigh...dare to dream...
It's just trying to take down as many oranisms with it when it's taking it's last breath. The last truly old-establishment trying to stop technology. It's fucking amusing to watch Hillary Rosen kill herself over some miserable few millions in "lost" profits while the suits are still living in luxury. Give up the private jet, bitch! And stop robbing the artists.
"Pirate" all you want. Don't buy from major outlets and support indie bands from independent labels who care less if you "steal" their music or not.
Problem solved.
I'm downloading the new Queens of The Stone Age album as I type this. Gonna kick back and enjoy it. Damn, it feels good to be a "pirate"!
P.S. Do not mod me up please.
Seems like some of these are actions would be legitimate. The problem, of course, is where to draw the line. Personally, I think as soon as you start burning CD's for profit then you are pirating. Burning for your own use? That's when the overzealousness kicks in.
My own personal theoary as to why CD sales are down has to do with local bands. Your local garage band can now make tonnes of CD's of their music fairly cheaply, by-passing the usual media outlets. People buy the music they want from the concerts they go to, and the particular bands that interest them.
Until the record labels realize that, however, they are going to continue to bleed green.
If brevity is the soul of wit, then how does one explain Twitter?
Last week, Secret Service agents in New York arrested three men and seized 35,000 illegally copied music discs, 10,000 movies on DVD and 421 compact disc burners that are used to make the counterfeit products.
I guess the "equivalent of 421 compact disc burners" has now officially become 421 compact disc burners.
+1 for the RIAA spinmeister team.
-1 for truth.
Just last week I went down to Geraldi's, my favorite local mom and pop sub shop (seating capacity of about 8, counting the outside table) here in downtown Portand, and noticed a handwritten sign taped to one of the coolers. It reads Now, I guess I'm still ambivalent/undecided about the greater argument here, but this particular injunction - visited upon a struggling and honest small business owner - just struck me as being thorough to the point of malice.
Obviously the owner isn't making any additional sandwich sales from having RIAA-approved background music playing as opposed to the TV news or whatever. Certainly not $265/year's worth.
Decentralization: the brief interval between the decline of one centralized regime and rise of another.
There has been a dramatic drop in the release of new artists and CDs in the last (approximately) two years. Something around 30% less. These sort of figures would show a court that the RIAA would seem to be interested in nothing more than control and to gain control distortion of the facts is a legimate tactic.
/. or TheRegister (possibly the BBC or New York Times).
Distortion of the truth is nothing new. Politicians, newspapers and even myself are guilty of it by omitting facts or over emphasis of point. But all three of us have some accountability, in my case either my manager or my wife.
Can a group like the EFF get a test case going (like in the original BetaMax case) to see what the courts would decide. Then the FUD would die right off.
I forget where I read it. It would have been either
"There is magic in the web." - Othello Act 3 Scene 4.
CNN picked up on the "421 burners" crap the RIAA spewed out after the copy shop bust the other day. I guess even trusted news organizations can't be trusted to cut through the crap for us anymore.
If I can't buy a used cd, what do you think I'm going to do?
copy it from someone else.
GoatPigSheep, the 3 most important food groups
I mean, come on... we didn't think we were actually buying anything, did we? We haven't allowed ourselves to believe that the physical media into which copyrighted information is embedded actually becomes property once paid for, have we? How silly... we're lucky, some may even say blessed, to have so wonderous an oportunity as to pay a one-time (and fully taxable) fee for indefinite rental rights to said vessel of copyrighted creation. Resale? Don't you feel that this is asking a bit much? The RIAA can only do so much, and I feel that it is childish (perhaps even morally wrong) for us to continue whining in this fashion. All we do is take, take, take from this honorable, upstanding congregation of the most hardworking individuals in the recording world. Perhaps, instead of crying over some antiquity that is the idea of "used" record stores, we should take this moment to give something back to the RIAA. I say: rush out and show the true colors of your consumerism this instant! Don't be shy, you know you want the "Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers" soundtrack...
of course their declining record sales have nothing to do with the public is now fed up of mass marketed pop music where record contracts are won not by original musical talent and song writing , but by nieve and desperate individuals in f***ing competitions while real talent falls into the gutter, leaving a trail of destruction in its path while the instigators get rich.
The only thing killing music is not kids downloading mp3's or pirating dvds at market stalls
why is it that so many companies have so much contempt for their customers and choose to be greedy instead of actually concentrating on superior products ?
Click here and send the RIAA a 1-Click message!
You're allowed to sell your copies.. if you sell them to a store who re-sells them, whoop-dee-do! It's just like software, if you aren't using it anymore.. no other copies, then you can sell it to someone else to use... this is really stupid!
1)Open a CD Shop.
2)Sell the original with a copy CD with the tracks in mp3/ogg/whatever as a backup/digital medium copy.
3)Shovel millions to lawyers.
4)Counter sue for violating fair use.
5)After losing every court battle give up and bitch about it on slashdot.
as RIAA FUD. It was effectively 421 burners (i.e. 156 burners, but some of them were really fast).
Isn't this the same RIAA press release that spawned a recent Reg article?
A music exec is going to come into my store and complain I can't play cds? Whats he going to do, call the police? Sue me? How will he prove it? I think it was just someone trying to get attention, you're up in hippy country.
The RIAA targets YOU!!!
It's really not much different....
> ..and 421 compact disc burners
There was another bust? I heard about one that involved "equivalent of 421 burners".
>is demanding a halt to illegal music sales
This reminds of the "Do not make illegal copies of this CD" message on MS cds. In any event, are there really many "gas stations, convenience stores, groceries and some small music stores" that sell illegal music? I've never seen or heard of this happening in the US.. of course it's not exactly something that comes up at dinner.
Kenny
Well, that's only fair. I mean, it's pretty obvious they've lost their own...
The Mongrel Dogs Who Teach
They need to blow Electronics Boutique out of the water for trafficking in used DVDs (including music video DVDs)... not to mention played (and presumably copied) games.
Then they can go after Walmart because they re-release some of their products after editing the content.
After that, might as well go after Borders & FYE, because of those machines that let you listen to the music before you buy. After all, not buying a CD because it sucks is bad for business.
the 421 number was made up by the RIAA.
F -8&q=421+burners
421 burners
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UT
Slashdot's link making feature seems messed up in the preview pane, so if the previous link works, this is the explanation for what might seem strange to some.
As a business plan, suing everyone is not very clever. What happens when the RIAA has sued all of their customers, retailers, and distributors?
Does that mean they'll finally go away?
the problem with the riaa's strategy against used cd shops is that the shops themselves don't carry pirated cds.
customer a sells a cd to the shop. shop marks up the cd 20 to 50%. then sells to customer b. customer b copies the cd at home (or several selected songs) and returns the cd. the result is that customer b gets his or her music for a couple of bucks all of which goes to the shop.
the problem for the riaa is that the shop never has an illegal cd, never has to copy them. and i sincerely doubt that used cd shops keep records of their customers. and even if they did, the riaa has no grounds to simply requisition customer lists and search their residences.
when religion is no longer the opiate of the masses, governments will resort to real opiates.
At this point, maybe the RIAA would do better to focus on producing quality music and innovative ways to distrobute it instead of dumping all of their funds into stopping what they believe is piracy.
I mean, I know this might sound a little crazy and all, actually producing a quality product that people want, in a format convient to them, in order to take their money...
"In a Democracy, people get the kind of government they deserve." -Winston Churchill
I can't be the only one who is getting really sick of hearing about the RIAA shenanigans (I'm not bitching about Slashdot.. I mean in general). The more crap they try to pull, the more they guarantee that they will only be a flash in the pan.
No organization whose sole motive is greed will ever last. Microsoft started traveling down this path and is now learning about it the hard way on many fronts... which is cool, because they are learning and trying to adjust. RIAA, on the other hand, is incapable of adjusting their greediness because it is their only reason for existence.
I wish they would just hurry up and die.
I think what Trent Lott needs to do is pick up a copy of Bulsworth and watch it for some ideas on how to get his ass out of this shit.
I am not advocating this at all, and I'm certain many people already do it, just a point of discussion.
The article states that cd sales have descreased slightly over the last two years. While obviously some of this is due to piracy, I believe that the majority of the drop is due to A) The fact that cd's are just too expensive for B) The crap that artists are putting out now.
The second point being why I am in favor of individual track purchase online.
Anyway, one way to bring the average price down would be to simply purchase a CD new, rip the tracks and then sell the disk to a used cd store. The cd store is not in violation so they should be safe. So now what you've done is effectively saved a couple dollars off the CD's retail price, and given someone else the opportunity to buy a physically brand new disk for a discounted price.
While this does involve an illegal act on the original buyers part, do the ends justify the means? If the RIAA is told anonymously en mass that people who engage in this behavior would stop is cd prices were actually worth paying, maybe it could happen...
"Not knowing when the dawn will come, I open every door." - Emily Dickinson
They're just going after stores where RIAA reps have found and purchased unlicensed compilations (BEST OF LATIN HITS!, etc.) or counterfeit copies of commercial releases. It's really not significantly different from the bootleg raids they do now and then. Billboard has a more detailed article.
Well, in the CNN article this story links to, that has become simply "421 compact disc burners." No mention of "equivalency" anywhere.
Sigh.
Offer the storeowner (if you know him/her personally) to casually "leave a boombox nearby with some music playing." Although the RIAA probably won't go after you, it would be interesting if they tried to limit people playing a CD out loud. I'm sure headphone sales would skyrocket.
I thought we were talking about artists here :)
--Zuchini
or even CD-oriented stores necessarily. It's about those CD's you see at the counter at convenience stores, truck stops and various places. Are they all legit?
One of the articles - maybe it was the one on wired - implied that it was about CDR's. I've never seen those for sale in any retail place, but maybe so.
The more interesting question is, say you're in business, you buy a load of CD's from some supplier, they look OK, and one day the RIAA comes knocking and declares them "pirated". Some commercial operations make authentic-looking ones. WHo takes the loss in this situation? And if it's the retailer, how are they supposed to tell in advance? Are we going to end up with holograms like on that old monopolist's SW, or dealer licences?
Posting as ac while having my password mailedWhat a great story. Consider this:
"The FBI busted a stolen car ring yesterday. They found 23 stolen cars in a Midlothian warehouse. Well, it was really only 15 cars, but two of them were really fast cool cars, so they counted as 5 each for the total."
..not sure what the bogus law is, but as far as I know any "human" can play his own boombox with his "legal" cd's or over the air radio. Now probably the store can't as an official policy play music without paying the vig to the goons, but suppose they didn't tell you to turn off your music when you came in, and for some reason the other customers could hear it and they didn't mind? How it would work is first come, first served, just like the meal. If you as a customer come in, and no one is playing their radio or cd player, swell, it's your choice to fire up tunes or talk of choice and listen until you leave the restaurant, then it's the next customers turn if they choose so.
Maybe some famous anonymous slashdot internet & music lawyer might want to comment?
In Soviet Russia, CDs burn YOU!
More balanced, more accurate. A centrist alternative to the left-wing news outlets that dominate American television. Maybe, we hope, they know how to count burners.
Remember when /. had the poll on the worst deadly sin? Greed was the top one. And people like Garth are just plain greedy.
Locally, Tower Records advertises on the radio that they will sell you a CD, you rip a copy, and then they'll buy it back for $4.00 less than they charged.
I'm not easy to shock but that seems pretty "out there" to me.
If you're not living on the edge, you're taking up too much space.
I thought they were something specifically produced for this market, but after reading the article I think the RIAA has the right to go after these guys. Its one thing to make copies for personal use, but entirely another to mass produce and sell them in a convenience store chain.
No, Thursday's out. How about never - is never good for you?
Last time I tried to buy anything at Sears, it was a $30.00 power tool paid for with cash. At least I tried to pay for it with cash. The clerk demanded my home phone number and address in order to make the purchase. The Sears computer system rejected the attempts at fake numbers I tried to give them.
I gave up.
Here you go: Missing RIAA figures shoot down "piracy" canard, which is based in turn on RIAA's Statistics Don't Add Up to Piracy by George Ziemann
I submitted this very interesting piece yesterday but it was rejected.
Seems like they are trying to get pain twice for one cd. I mean if someone wants to get rid of a cd the rightfully paid for they should be allowed to sell it. They will no longer have it to listen to. And the new owner now posses the same cd that the original owner had, but now doesn't have. Why should the new owner have to pay for a brand new cd and give the record company more money if the two owners of the cd will never own it at the same time? sorry if i sound confusing, i'm just venting
https://www.accountkiller.com/removal-requested
Someone can purchase a CD, rip the MP3's, then sell the CD to one of these shady operations, who then resells it to someone else. What could be a clearer example of piracy than that?
I have to wonder when book publishers are going to get smart....
After all, head to a Borders or Barnes and Nobles sometime and look at all the people who go in to read a book but don't purchase it....
Show of hands, how many people think that Borders is going to have to start paying royalties based on how many people visit their store?
The problem that we have here is twofold - we can't boycott buying CDs, because if we do, the RIAA will claim that the lack of sales is due to increased piracy, and we can't buy more CDs because the RIAA covers up their sales figures. The RIAA is continually getting stupider and stupider as time goes on. Soon they will be selling music on CDs that crash computers, blow speakers, ruin automobile decks, and automatically erase after 12 hours. I don't know what we can do anymore.
Rather they seem to be using this as an opportunity to intimidate alternative outlets and spread their unique interpretation fo the truth. I always find it amusing that they continue to blame various forms of piracy for the decline of sales, even in light of continuing revelations to the contrary. Of course, the sad thing is that the report just regurgitate the alleged facts.
The RIAA is probably most concerned about lack of control. They went through a lot of trouble insuring that they had control over the record stores. They have lost some of that control though discounters, but managed to minimize the loss through marketing deals. This is just another symptom of their compulsive control behavior. It is impossible to control all these little outlets, and therefor their price fixing policies will not be as effective.
Clearly, the media is not going to fix this. The congress is not going to fix this. I encourage everyone to go out into their communities and find independent music. Buy tickets to local concerts at local venues. Buy the CDs. Do not copy the music. We will only create a new market if we are willing to support the new market.
"She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
Can someone answer me this? Is is legal to sell used CDs which someone owns legally and RIAA already made its money off of? I thought it was. If so then why do used CD stores have to pay additional charges on used CDs? Seems to me they are double dipping on the same CD.
Ummm standardized test forms and college applications ask for these all the time.
I'm a firm believer in the philosophy of a ruling class. Especially since I rule. -Randal, Clerks
I think your local mom and pop have an excellent opportunity to provide entertainment to their customers, while at the same time supporting musicians who are not under the thumb of an RIAA member's oppressive contract scheme.
;)
Tell the people who run Geraldi's - as well as the owners of other local stores - to get into the local music scene in your city, and to buy the CDs of unsigned local musicians. Tell them to talk with the musicians and get their approval and blessing to play their music in those local stores and restaurants.
It's free publicity for the musicians, especially if the merchants put up a sign indicating what CDs they are playing that day (and how to get your own/where to go to listen to a live show), and the merchants provide an interesting feature to attract more customers.
Then, when Hilary Rosen shows up at Geraldi's and says, I thought I told you to stop playing music here or pay our licensing fees, he can tell her to go fsck herself.
What you say !!
You have no chance to survive make your time
It makes people more aware of the RIAA in a very negative fashion (Radio Shack could now use them as an excuse: Customer: "Why do you give me the third degree just because I am trying to buy a battery?" | Cleck: "The RIAA is making me do it"
By harassing used music/DVD stores out of business, they only force the interested public to get free copies online.
I bought a defective new Ghostbusters DVD there. I took it back and got a 2nd one. Defective in the same way.
I told them I was very reluctant to take a third one from the same batch home again and bring it back because it was defective; and that I would take another one if they could prove it worked. They couldn't, and gave me my money back.
The bill of rights was designed to enumerate the rights of the citizens, not to limit them. There wouldn't be an amendment designed to say, as you put it, "that only the government may keep and bear arms". The 2nd amendment was written to expand, not limit, the rights of the people. I'm not saying the 2nd amendment is good or bad, but I can assure you it was not written to say that "only the government may keep and bear arms".
Does anyone have a clue what the RIAA thinks about barter and swap? I can't seem to find much on this topic.
How to Download YouTube Videos
Several unsigned bands record there own cd's, is RIAA going to go after all CD-R disks and assume they own all music. Just last night I was in line at a concert and members of a local band were handing out burned cd's of there music, they are unsigned, RIAA has no controle of them.
-- Any comments seen here are not mine, but a mixture of alchohol and lack of sleep.
"Last week, Secret Service agents in New York arrested three men and seized 35,000 illegally copied music discs, 10,000 movies on DVD and 421 compact disc burners that are used to make the counterfeit products."
I guess nobody clued them in on the RIAA's unique methods of calculation.
There has been alot of discussion about the rights and wrongs of the RIAA. No doubt it is burning issue which cannot easily be agreed upon. However I think I speak for most of the /. crowd, up and coming artist, musicians, citizens of the world and working people every where when i scream.......
FUCK THE RIAA!!!
and the MPAA while your at it.
thanks, you can all go on happily consuming now.
sensitive clod
Surrender YR pattent!
What do customs do if they search luggage and find CDs and/or DVDs that look (to them) counterfeit, such as the passenger bought in China? I'm talking no more than one of each title, ie clearly for personal consumption. If the passenger bought them in good faith (difficult to prove otherwise), unless they are very obviously fake, is the passenger allowed to keep them?
That's a terrific idea. It's not as if there aren't any great local musicians in this town. And thanks for the sammich recommendation...
// I will show you fear in a handful of jellybeans.
Cough Hastings Cough
I remember reading a while ago that the RIAA wanted to target used album stores specifically, and Im SURE thats what this is about (what else could it be, in the United States?) This would be depressing, since the best album stores are the ones that sell used cds as well (read: non-corporation stores). There are so many people buying used cds because cds are too damn expensive!!
The day its illegal to sell/buy used cds, is the day I stop buying cds.
If you can simply go to the local library and borrow a cd what is to stop you from ripping it. And since all customers are pirates, the only logical conclusion is to sue those libraries.
Oh, wait, we had better call the MPAA because I just found out you can get the books that some movies are based on, then you can take them home and type them into Word and print them out. Maybe they should sue MS for creating a software program that can be used to copy copyrighted material.
I'm glad we have some responsibe organizations looking out for our interests.
You can't take the sky from me
The RIAA and MPAA could make a fortune just walking down the streets of downtown Manhattan. Every block has someone selling first-run movies on video and the latest, "hot" CDs on a card table. This would keep them busy for a long, long time.
Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government.
Man this is a dangerous thing. Considering the enormous ammount of money they have, they could sue a thousand gas stations, music shops, etc simultaneously and not loose a single time.
Imho this will turn into an abusive way to get more control over what's being sold, etc. The article also explains that they ask the shops to "help them fight piracy" which kind of back ups my fears.
The letter itself would be enough to make the shop owner s**t his pants, send some money to the RIAA and even help them in their attempts.
Real piracy is a problem but I don't trust the RIAA.
Decameron
diegoT
I like how riaa links the drop in sales to pirating , but they never bring up the fact that the price of new CD's is now closing in on $20. Economics 101 says that when the price increases sales should fall. Could this be the real reason for the drop ion sales?
[Elvis Costello m]akes Brittany Spears seem like Mozart.
I knew Mozart. I worked in the Senaye with Mozart. Brittany, you're no Wolfgang Amadeus mozart!
--
And I'm no Lloyd Bentsen, but you get the idea.
Opinions on the Twiddler2 hand-held keyboard?
When I was in Moscow three years ago I bought the complete works of R.E.M. and Brian Eno in MP3 format for 3 dollars each from a street vendor. I could have also bought Windows ME (except I have better taste than that) and hundreds of other titles for the same price. Mom and Pop, gas stations and the dude with the duffle bag selling pirated music at the bus stops in Richmond, VA (where i'm currently located) have nothing compared to the overseas countfeiters.
Car makes to sue all used car dealerships.
And, I just can't wait until the day I have to pay royalties for a cd that I have already purchased.
Good thing parroting disinformation never happens here.
Don't get me wrong, I can't stand lazy journalists. Some simply copy press releases into their stories. It is galling when you catch them at it. As soon as you have some expertise in an area, or even read enough, news that previously looked credible falls apart.
That's a reason to be very distrustful of reporting on legal proceedings. It is so easy to blow the details, especially if you're being lobbied by one side or the other and not trying to hard in the first place. Making deadline becomes everything.
There are some great reporters, learn their names, follow them if they change employment. Linda Greenhouse at the Times is a superb legal reporter, and a very good writer for everyone. Here is her 12/11/02 report on a free speech and cross burning case (this has more in common with the DMCA than you might think!).
Why do we continue to complain about this ?
I simply stopped buying music
I do listen to the radio, but I dont even have any MP3's because, well I dont like the fucking music anymore!!!!
If you really want to cost the RIAA money stop funding them, make them profit-less so they cant afford their attorney fee's and go the way of Enron
Once the RIAA is dead, support your local bands and live freely and happily
What sort of crack are you on? Elvis Costello wrote and performed some of the best cutting edge music of the New Wave era, unlike his better known namesake, a fat pill popping slug who never wrote a single one of his crappy tunes, and has since become a parody f himself.
Really Ignorant Anti-tech Assholes
As long as there is a Second Amendment, there will always be a First Amendment.
there are plenty of independant, free, not-exactly-ameteurish musicians and music-networks that would be more than happy to supply Geraldi's (and others) with cds.
they could even simply check for clearly non-copyrighted, non-material material;
burn it to a cd;
and bingo, problem solved.
(unless Geraldi will listen to nothing but what's in the charts.)
as a matter of fact, a certain music sharing network is currently putting together a project of - freely distributable original music - specifically for restaraunts and other public places. this will be burnt to cd, and available to the public over mail order.
all is needed is awareness.
<B>note to self:</B> <I>post as html</I>
Probably read it on ars!
www.arstechnica.com
rock on zAmboni
Disclaimer: I don't know more about this than what's in the article, but in my (shitty) neighborhood, there are tons of stores and gas stations that sell *blatently* riped off CD's and tapes (i.e.: you can see the dots of the dot-matrix printer used to make the CD cover). Hell, there's even an entire store a few blocks away that *only* sells copies.
I don't believe this has anything to do with mp3s, or the DMCA.
_______
2B1ASK1
I do not believe this is the RIAA; public performances and their licenses are overseen by ASCAP and BMI. American Society of Composers, Authors and Publishers....and Broadcast Music Inc. Auditoriums and radio stations deal with them, not RIAA.
Is there anybody besides me who's wondering what they did with all these used panties
Counterfeit CDs sold across the United States cost music companies $300 million a year, the RIAA said. The numbers are increasing as the equipment to make counterfeit copies becomes cheaper and smaller, according to industry statistics.
"This new initiative should serve as a clarion call for retail outlets of all shapes and sizes that we take music piracy seriously, and they need to get their house in order," said Hilary Rosen, the association's chief executive officer. "No one should think they operate below the radar anymore."
Where the hell did they get that 300,000,000 from? Did they send a knowlegable person into a reasonable statistical sampling of the world's gasoline stations, compile lists of pirated songs, and present the evidence? Or did Hilary stop into a gas station on the way back from Vegas and notice a bunch of CDs she could not recognize? Sorry, I don't buy the number or RIAA's ability to distinguish between a legitimate CD, from India for example, and a "pirate."
This does bode poorly for anyone trying to make their way without RIAA help. They are a racket that follows anticompetive practices such as RIAA only shops, payola and all that.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
Is it illegal to have a boombox tuned to your "local" Megaconglomerate FM station in your restaurant?
Sounds like breach of contract on the part of RIAA. After all, the store owner purchased the music without intent to distribute and is using it for private purposes. Tell him to ask the BBB in his area if anyone else got similar letters, if so organize and fight. The same logic used here by the corporate so-and-sos means about anything copyrighted played through a speaker to more than one person could be banned under this law. Theoretically it also means anything not played in headphones becomes suspect, maybe in our litigious society your store owner happens to be of a non-WASP backgroun and could cry discrimination, especially if other BBB members are not having to pay to use music. What state did this take place in?
As long as there is a Second Amendment, there will always be a First Amendment.
If it was, to offer a refund is quite generous. Generally, they have no obligation to offer a refund, open box or closed, unless they are at fault. Merchants are more leery of open box returns for obvious reasons -- fraud and difficulty reselling the item. Defective media, that's different, but even there your beef is with the manufacturer: the merchant is not necessarily required to act as go-between. Custom is that many or most companies do state exchange/refund policies more generous than their minimum commercial code obligations, and that's a reason we prefer them.
Either way, the DMCA is a silly excuse. I assume the cause was ignorance.
Used CD stores aren't stealing money from artists OR the RIAA OR the labels.
Used CD stores are a way for us, as consumers, to recoup our losses when we make a poor purchasing decision. If there was a way to 'rent' music (like movie rentals are now), or otherwise try it out first, we wouldn't have anywhere near the volume of used CD inventory that we do.
But, lack of rental abilities, pay-per-download, and poor variety on the airwaves means that often you have to buy-to-try. If you don't like the CD, you can resell it to anyone you like - including a used CD store - at any price they will offer.
On the news today, the US Govt is now leafletting Iraq and playing popular Arabic music along with "news" as part of its propoganda campaign against Saddam Hussein.
What I want to know is if the military or the government is paying the proper royalties to the rights holders of that music, and if they even got permission to broadcast it.
Where can I report them for IP violations? WIPO?
I tried every decent and legal way I could think of to resolve the issue w/the business before I rented the chicken suit
A lot of music stores near me, in predominantly Black neighborhoods, advertise that they sell "mix tapes". When I've been in NYC, I've seen mix tapes to be basically illegally recorded "greatest hits" from various artists, usually the popular songs of the day. These have always seemed fairly illegal to me.
I wonder if the RIAA is going to go after these people, and if this is going to raise an uproar in the Black community; these tapes seem to be part of the culture.
You never know what people are going to do with it -Like create, play and trade music files...
---- "Logoff! That cookie shit makes me nervous!" - A. Soprano
Is it just that most people here probably grew (or are in the process of growing) up under the gentle shadow of the RIAA, but no one seems to have noticed the *glaring* highlighting error in the editorial sentence "With the way the RIAA and some artists *cough*Garth Brooks*cough* have labeled..."
Do I need to cough it up for you? For RIAA's sake...!
With the way the RIAA and some *cough*artists*cough* Garth Brooks have labeled these..."
Should invading one's peaceful neighbours be opposed, or rewarded with trade deals?
Did people take the time to read the friggin article before blindly posting? The only thing they are talking about in the entire article is the selling of pirate copies with no mention of used cd's.
Read it again and please tell me if I'm wrong...
My good sig is in the laundry
And in other news today, Gun makers are responsible for homocidal maniacs, car makers for alcoholics and Everquest for antisocial suicidal people who lock themselves in their rooms, play for 48 hours strait then kill themselves. Wow! The music world will be safe after all...
You need a FREE iPod Nano
He's not playing music for his customers any more, he just let them use his CD player to play their own music.
Tell the RIAA to try and collect from them. "Quick! Another one's getting away! He heard that Garth Brooks song!!! Grab him!!! He owes us a quarter!"
Hahaha!
Those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it.
Those who forget the past are doomed
while i like to bash cnn, if you read the bottom of the article it looks something like this:
Copyright 2002 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.
while cnn chose to print it, the majority of the blame falls on the ap in my opinion.
-- john
Electronic Boutique is pretty cool about it. I bought a couple games there last month, and they said I could return them for any reason within two weeks. Exchange for anything else in the store, no problem. It could be that they recognize me by now, I do spend a certain amount there every year.
But I also checked their website, and they'll accept returns on anything within 30 days.
Not all merchants distrust their customers.
Does anyone other than me consider the RIAA hostile towards the American people? We have had used record stores in this country since there have been records. The record store I worked at in high school has been open since 1965, and is STILL open. And just now, all of a sudden, they're criminals? That's not how it works.
.mp3 and put them on p2p. Shop in used record stores. Just don't give these Nazi's another dime. They do NOT have our best interests at heart.
The RIAA is being allowed to run roughshod over our rights, and in retalliation, I will NEVER purchase another new CD, and have not done so for over 2 years. Before the RIAA I bought quite a few CD's. Probably 10 - 20 a year.
I'm not the only one boycotting new music purchases either. Many of my friends are completely turned off by the RIAA's aggressive practices, and have stopped buying CD's.
Another thing - Before the RIAA, I really didn't even use P2P very often. A song every now and again, and if I liked the song, I would purchase a CD sometimes. Now I download in much larger numbers, and leave my p2p program on at all times so that people can leech from me.
So if you're sick of the RIAA, just stop buying new CD's. Burn all of your current CD's to
...they imposed a similar requirement on pawn shops, that they get ID and I think even take a Polaroid. The reason of course was to make it harder for either thief or merchant to fence stolen goods. There was some controversy because of the expense, and I'm sure someone had to have complained about privacy. It does seem intrusive, but so are the burglars that feed this thriving market. Good idea? Bad idea? I'd like to see more information first. Legal idea? I think so.
Who is "they"? I thought it was by local ordinance, the city of Chicago, maybe Cook County. You can find out from an affected merchant or City Hall. They *might* be online.
Oh hey, I'm right. Check for more news on this, especially challenges anyone has raised.
Anyway, extending a pawn shop reg to used DVD stores is not much of a stretch, so perhaps this is the City again. It sounds legal and reasonable under the City's police powers but, again, intrusive. Although the basic idea is OK, I imagine the fight would go to just how much information is collected. The details are critical. Don't forget to contact your aldermen and the mayor's office if you need to.
As a devil's advocate... Lots and lots of used stores sell promo discs. Typically, these are just like the normal production-run CDs only they've been distributed to radio stations for use in promos and contesting. (Whether or not that's payola is another thing entirely.)
I work at a radio station in one of the smallest reporting markets in the country, and we still get tons of this shit (and by shit, I mean "Shania Twain.") Typically, cases that are cut or drilled or discs and liner notes that are otherwise marked are quite explicitly marked "Not for resale!" or whatever. Used disc stores that *do* resell these are clearly and unqestionably in violation of the copyright, as are the folks that sold it to the store in the first place.
While reselling a normal disc isn't (and indeed, shouldn't be) illegal, oftentimes tons of drilled and marked discs are up for sale at these joints, and that's a legitimate bitching point for Hillary and all my friends at RIAA. Anyone who has a problem with what RIAA does should get the satisfaction of knowing they got a disc the record labels are taking a loss on and not allow RIAA's moaning to have credence.
..dang, thought I spotted an obvious loophole. OK, check this out, how about internet cafes? You go in, view a ton of copyrighted work, maybe listen to internet streaming, etc. How is that different, or is it and they just ain't got around to it yet?
I dunno, been boycotting full price cd's, live over priced big name concerts and pro team sports so long can't exactly remember when I started, but it was way before I started using the internet. I consider most of that stuff part of the dumbing down bread and circuses action that entrenched power/command/control parties use, to get political about it. I like some music, buy it used or listen on the radio or not at all. Movies I only go to when girlfriend throws a hissy fit about it, but I get in a grumble everytime, and that is maybe once a year tops, although we get used movies on tape, that I mostly don't watch anyway, she does. Sports are the funniest, I live in bubba land and sports are pretty big topic, some guy will start talking to me about his "team" and I just go "sorry, don't waste my time anymore on that silly stuff when there are so many more important things going on" or something like that and change the subject. It's like if you aren't addicted to team sports you ain't cool or something. Means naught to me.
Anyway, to get back to subject, seems the only real practical way to get these guys to stop is to see if they could be busted for price fixing, and I think that was tried and didn't work very well, IIRC. That and just shun them, do the boycott, one person to another, explain the why's of boycotting. Handing them money, making personal exceptions to the rule all the time, well, they'll just keep on with the draconian nonsense. Besides that I just don't know, seems like a better way for "them" to do business is to have kiosks set up at the retailers where you pay by the cut, burn on the spot, and make it cheap and easy and very good quality.
Before someone goes off-topic into strange theories of international law and jurisdiction, there are several international conventions to which Russia is a signatory thus at least on paper they do agree to enforce reciprocal protections. Both you and the vendor may have broken Russian law. I know Russia has much more dire threats.
Note that by signing on to those conventions, the countries consent to participation. This is a different matter from jurisdiction when you commit a crime abroad. For purchasing those CD's, your being an American would be beside the point; they'd be able to prosecute you. (Unless you are also a diplomat.)
China is the most notorious example of a country disregarding international copyright and pissing off the U.S., the source of so much of the material. And I can see why: they are a poor country with more to gain than lose by ignoring copyright. China purports to be mending its ways as participation in int'l trade becomes ever more important to it.
Why is the Secret Service involved in the business problems of the music business? As a division of the U.S.Treasury their mandate covers currency counterfeiting and for non-apparent but historic reasons the protection of the President, Vice President and their family members.
Read their beginnings, history and mandates here.
Is RIAA recorded music the new currency? Is Hillary Rosen the new president?
I don't think so!
"Don't Follow Leaders." Bob Dylan
I want to be polite about this, yet adamant with my opinion. I've successfully tolerated the occasional grammatical errors and spelling errors, but the occasional is becoming habitual. Yuck. I hate writing like that, but I hope it gets my point accross.
They really can't afford $1 per day to stay legal?
Fukken bullshitting, tightwad, lickpenny bastards.
They make more than $1 when they sell you a friggin' baloney + cheese fer chrissakes!
To add to this advice: remember that the ASCAP and BMI licenses are in principle for the songwriters, not the performers. You'll have to be very careful not to play anything that's even remotely close to a cover of a copyrighted song.
I remember a guy in Lubbock 35 years ago that had a whole store that sold nothing but bootleg 8-track tapes. I guess ol' Roy would be about 80 now. Now the RIAA has started to crack down?
I spent six years in the U.S. Navy and I was very proud to do so. The one thing I treasured the most while being out to sea was my music. I didn't have very many CD's because well as many of you might know the Navy like all branches of the military do not pay that well.
./ readers wanted to make a statement maybe we could do so by collecting CD's which we no longer have an interest in and send those CD's and DVD's to the men and women of the armed forces. These people are protecting our freedom, let's give them back theirs.
It really bothered me when I read how the RIAA went after people in the Navy for sharing music. When your half way around the world or just a few mile from the good ole USA you don't pick up radio stations too well if at all as in most cases.
I think if
Every ship has a mailing address and they do accept care packages.
The only reason the RIAA went after the military is because it was an easy target which they could control.
You're giving her too much credit.
What I did was I filled in the feedback form and kindly informed them that the number was incorrect and that RIAA 421 number trick, has degraded my view of the quality of their articles. And I hoped that they would correct it since it wouldn't take much effort to verify my statement.
I don't know if it would matter, but if you just sit down and do nothing, no one will know it.
Now if they correct it then fine, if not then you know for sure how much their news is worth and can skip visiting their site in the future.
The music finds you!!!
Word! Armed Forces Radio sucks ass. You can bet our troops overseas have their CD and tape players with them, even in the middle of the desert. And if the RIAA thinks they can tell a bunch of Marines out in the desert not to share their music, well... Hilary Rosen can go out there and tell 'em personally. Now that would be a fucking riot! :)
~Semper Fi~
Here's a thought:
People should e-mail CNN or Associated Press about their shoddy article and let them know we prefer reading news reports from people who can regurgitate press releases accurately?
-- Askari: Give JavaScript the bird.
I'm getting tired of seeing comments about number of equivelent burners (So I guess I should help beat it to death!) 156 real burners found. (a mix of speeds, some fast) Please note that fast burners are circa year 2002 and I will assume the slow burners are circa year 2000 (or earlier). So according to the RIAA they really found 421 burners. I assert that they really found only 58 (equivelent) burners. After all, last time I checked this is the year 2002 not 2000. (I'm glad to see the RIAA going after real crooks for once. Still, the only way we will keep them from taking our legitamate fair use rights is to share the truth and be vocal about what fair use is and is not. They will have to pry my fully capable computer from my cold dead hand!)
If someone wants your SSN but has no reason under God and Man to get it, just give it to him with the first digit changed to 8. No SSNs in the 800 range have ever been assigned.
What we call folk wisdom is often no more than a kind of expedient stupidity.-Edward Abbey
All our local CD stores (.au) do exactly that. Because they are so stealable, the take details from the seller and then quarantine them for a week before putting them on the shelves. A resonable number of stolen CDs are recovered this way and the thieves identified.
Xix.
"Everything is adjustable, provided you have the right tools"
I will keep buying nothing but used discs at second hand stores for the sole purpose of making sure they have some money to fight those greedy fuckers.
... but isn't the RIAA going a little far by attacking their customers? Worse still, they're now going after their retailers.
You know, if I were a child, and I attacked the people who bring me food and stuff? They'd say I was throwing a tantrum. (let's not pick the comparison apart... I know it's a bit weak)
But these people are utterly destroying their own business model. Soon, I predict, they will be appealing to congress to have everyone's pay taxed for entertainment based on annual income. This way, they will be compensated fairly for entertaining us as surely everyone knows that we entertain ourselves with CD music proportionate to our income level. And of course additional law will have to be written to jail those who listen to more music than their income levels allow... we can't have that now can we. What kind of society would we live in where people listen to music all the time? For free? What is this? Soviet Russia?!
Someone write a law and save our dying nation!!!!
(This bit of melodrama was brought to you today by the letters R and A and the number 9.)
You're like THE person to get this right. Here the 4-paragraph CNN article has the word "illegal" like 75 times in connection with these counterfeit CD's and no one sees it? This is plain vanilla law enforcement -- at the behest of the industry, but that's nothing new. Manufacturers push for raids on counterfeit items ranging from handbags to blue jeans to perfume to....
The other point you make implicitly is that what these retailer are doing is also fraud to the buyer, if the buyer is unaware he's not getting the real thing. If the buyer does know it's bootleg, he's hosed. Here the RIAA is doing something that benefits the honest consumer, albeit indirectly.
Oh yes, everyone rally in favor of mom'n'pop fraud stores?
You deserve a couple dozen more ++ points. I'd give you mine if I could.
It would be really tough to show that the sandwich shop receives a financial benefit from playing music there. It's not just a matter of atmosphere, either - you'd have to show that with free or library music they would not receive the same financial benefit.
-T
where in the article does it say ANYTHING about stores that sell -used- cd's?
I hate the riaa as much as the next geek, but this is not what the article is referring to at all. they're talking about actual pirating and not 'right of first sale' issues.
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"It is now safe to switch off your computer."
I'm not sure what you mean? The AP is just another conduit of news, and a prolific one with unusual weight in smaller newspapers.
If you mean bylines, AP has provided them since about WWII. Subscribers can omit the byline at will. The author was Mark Sherman.
so if I create a .jpg of 421 cd burners and burn that to a cd-r, does that mean I'm in exponential violation of something or other?
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"It is now safe to switch off your computer."
You don't see GM getting bent of out shape because private individuals or Used Car dealerships are selling used cars right?
What about used furniture and appliance stores? Are Maytag's Lawyers beating down their doors?
Is Gateway, Dell or Compaq beating down anybody's doors for reselling their old computer systems?
No, of course not, so why should it be any different with music or software?
Granted, when it comes to music and software, it's not the music and software themselves that you are buying, but a license to listen to that music or run that software in a non-commercial setting for private use, and the medium upon which the music is stored.
But yet I still don't get where the RIAA comes off thinking that they are somehow owed money from people and businesses that resell the (fully paid for private merchandise) after the fact.
eeww! that's worse than goat-sex!
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"It is now safe to switch off your computer."
I know this guy, his name is Alan Ralsky... I heard he's collecting mail order catalogs to raise money for UNICEF or something...
You could just use his info... I'm sure he wouldn't mind..
After all... It's for the children.
I hear all this talk of boycotting them, and how they are strangling the industry, etc etc.
I would like to present an option, or rather How I Fight The System.
I run my own label. Its a small affair, using the best quality packaging, and CDr with thermal printing for a slick look, use professional quality audio mastering, and work with underground electronic/industrial artists to promote, and distribute their music. All legal, and copyrighted by the artist, I don't "own" the artist like the big labels, its more a partnership. I went with a "supply on demand" model to lessen my financial risk, and am just going out and doing it myself. Screw the big guys, there is tons of good music out there, for cheaper than the bloated greedy recording industry would like you to beleieve that they can be had for! I'm not the only one either, there are a few of us out there..
Syncromesh Audio is where to find it. I run an internet radio stream as well, featuring mostly small label, or independant electronic/industrial/goth artists, and very little of the big guys generic and hook filled crap.
You want to stick it to the man? Then support the options. There is some really good music out there, and we don't have billions for marketing to promote it.
Yeah, so there.
Gee. This SURE won't encourage anyone to download their music instead of getting fingered every time they buy it.
I do security
"1)Open a CD Shop.
2)Sell the original with a copy CD with the tracks in mp3/ogg/whatever as a backup/digital medium copy.
3)Shovel millions to lawyers.
4)Counter sue for violating fair use.
5)After losing every court battle give up and bitch about it on slashdot."
The all important step 6
6)Profit
13 year old white supremacists are shitty web designers.
Perhaps the 35,000 illegally copied music disks was actually 20000, but quite a few of them were Britney Spears and Eminem disks, so they are "effectively" 2 disks each, unlike the Garth Brooks disks, which are only effectively .65 disks.
Cheers,
Backov
In the law there is no overlap between theft and copyright infringement whatsoever.
It strikes me that we continue to read that the sales of CD's sold by member companies of the RIAA continue to decline.
The stock market has lost ~2000 points since the middle of 2002. Unemployment is up. These may be factors.
People may be dissatisfied with the quality of music. More artists are playing mainstream network venues like the Today Show and Live with Regis and Kelly, and Caroline Rhea.
Movies seem to be doing okay, though since every week there's a new box office record (seems like it, anyway).
Perhaps it is the thieves' fault that the RIAA is in such dire straits from all this piracy. It's a helluva lot cheaper to produce a song than a movie. It's also cheaper to burn a music CD than a movie DVD. How the hell would anyone be able to put some solid figures together on this? Not an entirely rhetorical question. I think the RIAA and MPAA suck, but it would be cool to see some solid figures that could establish that the reason the numbers are going down is because the quality of music is poor; the level of respect the music companies give their customers vis-a-vis their privacy policies is poor; and most importantly, the agressive nature of these highly-publicized anti-piracy campaigns against their customers really turns them off from continuing to purchase from them.
If you antagonize your customers and there are choices, they will opt for alternatives to you. Basic economics. Someone should quantify this, if possible and publish the numbers. I'd do it myself, but I'd rather spend my time in the studio producing yet another song that will never get released by a label. >:)
www.dedserius.com
VB != VisualBasic
Every time I go into those places, they also usually have quite a few video tapes with all sorts of random movies and TV shows taped on them. I'm not sure who is buying a bag of 10 year old decaying VHS tapes for even $1...
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
What the fuck is wrong with you people?
Why the hell can't you figure out the SIMPLE RULE:
it's = it is
its = something that belongs to it
fucking quit pissing me off!!
...have better things to do than going after music pirates?
A lot of bands have switched to manufacturing EP's via cdr and saving the presses for the full length release. I hope that legitimate CD-R releases aren't being counted as piracy in these raids.
"Let him go, Ralph. He knows what he's doing." --Otto Mann (simpsons)
Tell them to set up a simple, cheap, 2-speaker audio system and then they can play all the CDs they want. Others have already pointed out that ASCAP and BMI handle the licneses for this, not the RIAA but no one has mentioned that it is legal to play audio CDs over a low quality audio system for the purpose of entertainment. THe minute you place a high-quality audio system in the restaraunt it is considered public performance and you the restaraunt or store owner will need to purchase a license from ASCAP and/or BMI to do so. And before anyone asks, yes people do go around to the hundreds of thousands of restaraunts and stores across America checking up on this stuff.
You say "Another obvious reason is defective merchandise." This is not a reason for the ID check to be required by law, but rather could only be passed off as a reason for the ID check to be required by the store.
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WHO ATE MY BREAKFAST PANTS?
Parent AC post a RIAA member perhaps? lol Jeez, talk about being trolled. Just thought I'd try and help the people that fear clicking through. ;)
To find out they were really going after the "mom and pop" record stores, after Lars made such a big deal about MP3s being the killer of the "mom and pop" record stores. I wonder if they even know whose side they are on...
Russian Russian Russian RussianDollSig DollSig DollSig DollSig
In a way, what we are seeing here is gratifying. It's pretty clear that the RIAA has completely abandoned all pretense of being the good guys. Notice that they've even lightened up on the "protecting artists" blather lately? They know nobody buys that crap anymore. The RIAA has entered the thrashing, raving, foaming at the mouth stage, where they don't care how ugly they are or who sees it.
The RIAA is a doomed vampire that knows it is about to turn into dust and blow away. It is frantically looking around for any exposed vein it can still suck before the sun comes up.
Nice.
Actually from what I understand the outlets they are going after are gas stations, truck stops, etc. You know those revolving racks of tapes and cd's you see by the register? Most times its quite obvious they are rip-offs that have been copied ad-infinitum onto blanks. Im suprised it took this long to be brought to somebodys attention.
Ive done my share of road trips and have seen this scheme all over the country in truck stops, and gas stations so its not just a local thing. That and the mysterious stacks of briefcases that come in on pallets displayed in a nice stacked triangle. Or buying a pack of cigarettes at a gas station in a coastal city, only to see the stamp on the bottom says "For Export Only". Theres plenty of money here in shady biz deals for the RIAA to keep themselves happy and line their pockets.
I'm torn on this issue. On one hand, I believe that wholesale theft of content should be illegal, and snuffed out.
...Now you see why I'm torn. What does the RIAA do, if not that?
These people are absolute scum. They profit, at no effort to themselves, from the work of others.
Looking at the RIAA member list, I am proud to not buy any new CD's of bands that support them. How many people in the forum can say the same? Most of you have bought a new CD from a RIAA label, no?
/.'rs should see this too. They are out for money. Most of you have the same goal, no? In the bygone "union" area most of you held a view that unions undermine profits. Also, most of the /.'rs supported a very capitolist view of how the economy should work. The RIAA is the Amerikan dream. You make money, and the customer must take it up the ass.
/. once said, most indie bands are indie because they suck. The only time I pirate a track is too see if I want the CD... And honestly how many people do the same? Most of us will take free over loyalty, taste, or ethics.
I don't support the cause of the RIAA, but I see where they are coming from, and most
How many of you work for chibi version of the RIAA, rake in the cash, get away with what you can? Why do you work for these companies? Thats where the money is, thats why. So can't you see the WHY the RIAA works?
American morality is slippery. I beleive in causes, but gosh-darn I want my Brittany! I hate the American buisness system, but gosh-darn I want to be paid more than the "unskilled" guy across the street. We have what is called "situational ethics"... Give 'em up and the RIAA and Micro$oft will fail... Keep 'em and they win.
I, personally, agree with 80% of the RIAA's line... Piracy DOES happen, and piracy DOES cut into the ever precious bottom line. And as someone on
A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government. -edward abbey
Every news item I read shows me that these two organisations are like kids in a toyshop - "Lets go get the bad guys Batman". They have authority (or think they have) beyond their remit.
And they label anyone as a pirate. Now didnt the McCarthy era investigations label everyone as a "Commie" and many people suffered because of the way they treated everyone. People became "snitches" to avoid being implicated themselves.
And what about "Prohibition". Wasnt this similar? Some (few) people in power bring out a law 'they' think is cool and immediately the whole community and infrastructure is outlawed. Most people get on with their lives rather than worry about politics which is how the MPAA/RIAA arse-holes came about.
As much as I think MPAA/RIAA are evil-evil-evil, I enjoy watching them make arses of themselves. Because history will show they will be trodden on out of existence.
And they give birth to a new genre of jokes:
Q: Whats the difference between the RIAA and a bucket of excrement?
A: The bucket.
We have an organisation called SAFACT who have for the last 12-18 months been engaging in an harassment campaign specifically targeted at small retailers, primarily those that also sell used music, games and movies, but also anyone who imports directly rather than buy from the local distribution cartel who finance and run SAFACT. So far they have stolen hundreds of thousands of Rands (R9==$1) worth of merchandise, but in all cases except one charges laid at the time were dropped because no illegal material was found - needless to say not one of these retailers has ever seen their perfectly legal merchandise again.
There are currently various criminal cases pending against the members of SAFACT, including intimidation, harassment, assault, extortion and impersonating police officers. Various small retailers are trying to recover the cost of their merchandise (in some cases SAFACT destroyed it soon after stealing it and in others it has mysteriously just disappeared), but they're fighting against big money. The police are doing what they can, but few people are brave enough to come forward and risk various forms of retaliation.
It's no secret that RIAA wants to control (and profit from) every musical note we hear, this just shows that they are too lazy to do all the work.
If the small stores are in fact distributing illegal copies of music, I don't think they know they are doing so. I know ignorance is no excuse for lawless practices, yet think about how these small stores "stock their shelves." Mom and Pop stores most likely purchase the alleged illegal material from a traveling salesman, who most likely even sets up the cardboard display and marks the product for retail sale. Mom and Pop are not in the back room churning out illegal copies of copyrighted material with their new CD Burner (now that would equal about 25 wouldn't it?) they are trying to make a meager profit via meager markup.
I can see the demise of many family owned operations because of this Mega Corporation tactic. Receiving a letter from a lawyer demanding settlement could and will do damage to small business (the backbone of the American Economy). Many will comply and/or desist selling music, while the real culprite finds new ways to sell his illegal warez.
The way I see it, the RIAA is too lazy to do the research and legwork needed to find out who is doing the manufacturing and distributing of the illegal material. Raining econimic plunder is the only thing they are good at, so they continue to excercise their power on the weak.
Could the next step be lawsuits against major music outlets? After all, if they had not provided the orignal, it would not have been pirated.
Just when I think they've showed what big imbacials they are, they do it one better. I only hope that the decline of sales continues and heart medication magically disappears from the RIAA board room. Maybe we can get some young minds in there to bring this unfortunate affair under control.
Hi Hillary! Hi! The drunks are going to take you in the back room and beat your head with a 40 Oz. 'till the white meat shows! Hi!!
Hehe, nice feedback loop you posted there... What goes out comes back in...
Hi,
The post seems to suggest that stores selling second hand CDs are committing an offence. Is this true now in the USA? Here in the UK if you own a (genuine) CD you are at liberty to sell it second hand. Has this right been taken away in the States? Do you now have to agree to an EULA when you buy a CD?
Al
That at first I actually read 'war on privacy' instead of 'war on piracy'?
(this would have been funny, except that it's to close to reality for me)
--Bel.
And which music sharing network is this? I see no reason to leave it nameless.
== Jez ==
Do you miss Firefox? Try Pale Moon.
When i was in college, there was a CD store in nearby Northampton that sold bootlegged recordings of live shows. Most of these were legit, since the bands were ones that allowed it (Grateful Dead, Phish, etc). But I recall that there was a big commotion about Dave Matthews Band, which was the most popular college music at the time (circa 1996), coming down with a stampede of lawyers and hunting out indie record stores selling bootlegged live DMB recordings.
This isn't a commentary on whether it's right or wrong, just that record companies and artists have cracked down on retailers before, and they'll probably do it again.
PS: For years, music stores that sold used CDs weren't given any promotional material from the recording companies (even if the store sold new ones as well) because obviously used CD sales don't help the companies any. But this must have changed, as the big New England chain Newbury Comics is indeed selling used CDs...
"First you gotta do the truffle shuffle."
Used stores will just have to up their prices. Reguardless they can remain competitive with new sales stores. Many sell New cd's in the first place also.
I think their fight should be not having to pay excessive fees. All this economy needs is corporate america putting bargan places out of business.
Break the cycle!
our CDs have EULA's
... Last week, Secret Service agents in New York arrested three men and seized 35,000 illegally copied music discs, 10,000 movies on DVD and 421 compact disc burners that are used to make the counterfeit products. ...
Note, that the 156 physical CD burners have mysteriously become the virtual 421 cd burners.
Gotta love RIAA statistics.
What's next, an article that states "that 100% of (the three arrested) americans are involved in music piracy" ??
-- All That's Evil in the Geek Space
Someone on here suggested that people should look at purchasing CD's from independent record labels if they want to protest against the RIAA.
Since the foundation of the music issue is price I figured I'd do some research to find out if independents who don't spend big bucks on marketing would sell their products for less than the big boys.
I would say the independents are even a bigger rip off since they don't spend big bucks on marketing but yet charge about the same as the big record labels.
1. Alligator Records
Shemekia Copeland "Talking to Strangers"
$14.98
2. Alula Record
Blodig, Kerstin "Vilivann"
$13.19
3. Blix Street Records
Eva Cassidy "Imagine"
$13.49
4. Blooshot Records
Alejandro "Thirteen Years"
$16.00
5. Compass Records
Kate Rusby "Ten"
$15.00 (Looks as if they charge $15.00 all
their CD's
6. Rounder Records
Nanci Griffith "Winter Marquee"
$13.99
7. High Tone Records
Chris Thomas King "A Young Man's Blues"
$10.99
8. Jazart Records
Maurice Boivin "Romantic Jazz Standards"
$12.00
9. Sugar Hill Records
Jim Mills "My Dixie Home"
$15.00
10. Tone-Cool Records
Hobex "U Ready Man?"
$11.99
Jurassic 5 (pretty mainstream hip-hop) held a contest to see who could distribute their newest CD, online, completely free, to the most people. They even set up a groovy jukebox applet to play it, and they gave the winners of this artist-sponsored piracy contest autographed t-shirts.
Maybe unfortunately for the RIAA/MPAA, some bands are more concerned about respect and recognition than having another set of platinum shoelaces.
How long before the RIAA starts sueing those unsigned musicians for not being part of the RIAA?
The Code Ninja is swift with his tool, precise in his delivery, and deadly accurate in his execution.
The corelary to that is 'feed the dogs dog food'
I had a very large collection of cassettes back in the 80s. It was because they were relatively cheap to buy.
The advent of CDs and prices approaching or exceeding $20 for albums limits my ability to collect a similar amount of music.
Enter MP3s. My daughter downloads mp3s of all the music she likes - most of which is not mainstream 'popular' music. She has a larger collection than I had. To me this looks like a redefinition of what 'popular music' is, not based on the number of records sold, but on the accessibility of it to the audience.
Continue to perform harsh enforcement and raise prices, and the music industry will price itself out of business.
Forgot to mention:
My daughter (teenager) - only owns about 5 CDs. Everything else is MP3s, which she downloads to her portable MP3 player and carries around with her.
The future is here. Record labels need to get with the program or die.
Here in God's Armpit (Western NY)... NO, Not Buffalo... We don't really have actual pawn shops. We do have a few used merchandise/consignment stores. The policy in these stores for as long as I can remember has been that you must provide ID when selling them something. More than a few arrests have been made, and property recovered after break ins... As such, when selling something, I have never felt violated by that practice. Given the Flavor-of-the-Month tastes of the music listening public these days, they do quite a bit of business with used CDs. Generally their selection ranges from the crappy forgotten hair bands of the 80s to last week's pop "sensations". These stores are good for two reasons: 1. Poor people, myself included, with limited budgets can get their hands on CDs for a few lousy bucks. 2. Poor people, myself included, can unload CDs that we no longer want. I have made purchases in "normal" record stores based on random unknown CDs that I picked up used on a whim. So, the labels make their money on the first sale of a CD, salaries and sales tax in a local business are generated by the second sale, and market penetration for the label occurs at the secondhand store owner's expense... Maybe it's time to invite all the lawyers for a little sit down and perhaps a nice steaming cup of STFU. It seems that the end result of their diabolical plan would be to centralize all money made on an "artist". This is bad for consumers. This is bad for taxpayers. This is bad for local businesses. This is bad for everyone but the fat pricks at the top. Business as usual.
Someday a real rain is gonna come...
I gotta say - this is not exactly an evil practice, and well covered in copyright legislation. Playing "your own CDs" for the patrons of your restaurant is considered a "public performance" - you are getting the value of having (presumeably) cool music enhancing the atmosphere of your restaurant & attracting customers. Paying a license fee for the right isn't that much to ask.
$265/yr comes out to a little more than 72 cents a day. Selling one sandwich a week would pay for it. You think maybe he's selling 1 less sandwich a week without the music?
Jeez - musicians work for a living, too. Suppose a musician walks into his business and asks for a free sandwich - would he get it, or would he get thrown out?
Yes - the price of the album.
The only reason the market bares the prices being pushed, is there is no perception of an alternative.
There is an alternative - free music on the web.
Remember, your conception of 'good' or 'bad' art is not an ethical question; it is an esthetic question, of which there is no right or wrong answer. Look into free and independent recordings with an open mind. Don't play the record company game with fixed dice.
I just downloaded my all-time favorite band's new CD "Other People's Songs" from Erasure. It is scheduled to be released on 18 Jan 03. Guess who will NOT be buying it? Me. Not because I already have a sub-standard MP3 version, but because it SUCKS! If I went into Wal-Mart, bought the CD, opened it, played it, and then decided it sucked... I would be out $17.99. How is that fair? If I buy a product, I expect to recieve a certian amount of satisfaction for my hard earned dollar... If not, I expect a refund. This Christmas I will buy exactly 0 CDs. I will do my part to help put the RIAA out of business.
When you say that about all of the stations (as all of them claim to be fair and balanced and objective, all that bullshit) instead of singling Fox out for the ill treatment merely because they're conservative-leaning, when you can admit that *all* the stations are completely out of whack with 'objectivity' and that it's not just Fox that deserves derision for not admitting it, then come back and we'll maybe have a useful discussion about it. Not till then.
Do you even see the hypocrisy of your animosity for Fox only?
Just wait til you can't have the TV on in the background either, without paying a royalty ("in case people come in and watch a movie without paying"). It's a very short step from CDs and radio to any sort of media at all.
Hmm. Anyone know how the situation is handled with "sports bars"?? Do they need to pay a fee for each TV they have displaying Monday Night Football or ESPN??
~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
I looked around a little more and found a typically misleading page about store refunds. At first it sounds like what I first said. Then at the *very* bottom they bury the warranty of merchantability -- here Gerogia's rule.
I don't know what state you live in AND DON'T TELL ME! If you burn with curiosity pull up your AG's site or check with in-state consumer protectiion agencies. Don't forget to check for local ordinances, too.
(As a practical matter few merchants will know all this stuff; as you discover the key is to be annoying anough that they pay you to go away.)
What I should have done is throw in the traditional YMMV and run like heck.
[runs like heck]
I used to live in a town with some really good used CD stores. 99.9 % of the used CDs were legit CDs, but you could find rare bootlegs on CD from time to time. These were pressed CDs, not stupid CD-Rs with a cover printed out on an ink-jet printer, and I think they were probably imported at some point before they wound up in the used CD stores.
Think about the RIAA throwing a big stink over these CDs enough to get some type of settlement out of the stores even though the biggest bulk of the material was totally *legit*.
Given the state of the market for everything, something like this could force mom & pop stores to close, which is exactly what the RIAA wants.
Usurper_ii
Ron Paul
Hey... if we count extra features and multiple language soundtracks, there might only have been about 864 disks. And some of those movies might have been "longer than average", so...
-
P.
(not sure what went wrong last time)
Paul "Say no to feeping creaturism"
..as to why i won't make my girlfriend a compilation tape
"sorry hun but i can't let myself drag you any further into the criminal underworld"
<B>note to self:</B> <I>post as html</I>
Now the RIAA will provide us with EULA's, since they are the only way I can think of to prevent me (legally) from re-selling a cd which is not a pirated copy, nor a demo "not-for-distribution" disc.
I think the RIAA needs to take a step back from the glue machine, as the fumes are obviously affecting them. You idiots EXIST to provide us with entertainment, that's what we pay you for... not to be called thieves and have even the most basic of property rights twisted and abused to the point where our founding fathers would run screaming in terror. The people who run the RIAA are EVIL "tin-plated dictators with delusions of godhood" (fair-use quote, *ptttb*), and their monopolistic hold over the recording industry needs to be broken.
It is my understanding that, due to the nature of computers (ie: thousands of motherboards, thousands of video cards, lots of different cpus, cpu speeds, available ram, etc....) you can not depend upon a piece of software to work on a given system.
WalMart's policy is "Satisfaction guaranteed or your money back" - the same as Sears. If you aren't satisfied - then you should be allowed to get your money back. However, I also have worked the other side of things. People tend to abuse stores a lot. In my case, I took the software home, tried it, it did not work well on my system (and yes - my system was within the parameters printed on the box), I did not like it, and wanted my money back. Even if it is store policy to say "No money back on opened software" they still have to give it back. After all, how many times have you bought a pair of shoes, worn them, they hurt, and you took them back? How many times has someone given you a Christmas present and you've taken it back? How many times have you bought anything or received anything and taken it back? You have to have that ability because sometimes you get something you just don't want or can't use. The problem is - is that we don't have an automatic lie detector stuck on our foreheads (or noses like Pinochio). So stores can't tell who is doing it to steal from them and who is truly just wanting to take something back. Or is there?
Stores collect a lot of information about you and your buying habits. In order to return anything you have to give them your name, address, etc.... Stores should allow returns based on this information. You buy one piece of software and return it, then another, then another, and pretty soon they can say no. Some people will cry foul at this and complain about the lack of privacy, anonymity, or whatever. Ok - then tell us how they should go about doing it? This is the least intrusive method I can think of and it is not a bad way of monitoring people. It isn't infallible. Nothing is. It can be misused. But it can, if dealt with openly and honestly by the stores, provide a means for talks between someone who is buying and returning a lot of things and the stores they are doing it to. It also might help those stores to lower their prices a bit. I'm not saying it is an end-all to what is going on - but it is a start.
Someone put a black hole in my pocket and now I'm broke.
Why do you think they went out of business? ;-)
Someone put a black hole in my pocket and now I'm broke.
What work, exactly, is the musician performing on the store owner's behalf when said store owner plays the musician's CD?
Remember, the store owner already paid for the CD, so the musician got paid for the initial performance.
Cool. My local pizza joint always plays the most annoying radio station on ceiling loudspeaker (hence specifically designed for entertaining the patrons).
The crap they play is cheezy music with a ton of ads between each song and an idiotic DJ who is always bordering on drowning in his own drool. So could you please point me to the law stating the restaurant has to fork $265 to play that drivel? I'd gleefully show it to them. If this could stop them from playing this audible excrement, it would do patrons a great favor!
Yeah, I know, I should go to another place. There is another pizza parlor in my bustling 300-trailer metropolis, but it's a mile away and the two servers always makes passes at customers. And they licks the tomato sauce off each other's fingers while they fix the pizzas. So I'll stick with the clean one.
--
Mad science! Robots! Underwear! Cute girls! Full comic online! http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/
Here is your evidence of media bias.
I read the excerpt posted on Amazon, and it is categorically misleading. The thesis of the part posted on line is that "It costs money to run a newspaper, so newspapers only represent the rich".
To back this up, he says that you could start a weekly in England in 1837 that prints 6500 copies a week for about a thousand pounds. But by 1867, daily newspapers cost 50,000 pounds to start.
Let's see here, he compares weekly to daily, and does not reveal how many copies the larger(tool of the capitalist oppressor) paper prints. That's how you make a point, by pulling vague numbers out of your ass that don't mean anything when you use your brain and think about them.
Hey brainiac, you can still start a socialist workers party paper with 6,500 copies down at Kinkos for 6500*.05c = $325.
the world. duh? haha
because I have been enjoined by this Holy Office to abandon the false opinion which maintains that the Sun is the centre
if i buy a cd it is mine! fair use should dictate that i can do with it what i will. i am so sick of this administration and corporate america(one and the same really) trampling on my rights.
as long as i am not copying it for sale, ANY OTHER USE should be legal.
used cd stores recycle things that would otherwise end up in a garbage heap, so they are very good things. they are not a significant threat to new retail sales as they have no constant production stream. the trickle of sales being diverted to used records is small.
and those who sell their old cds often buy new ones with the money they get.
the issue here is obviously control. when a corporation or other large entity realizes that they are losing control, they tighten their grip.
not realizing that this just causes more iritation with their policies and strengthens the cause of their rivals. very stupid business move, but they never seem to learn that lesson.
if you want to keep customers, keep adding value. if you try to force them to your products you will only succeed in sending them screaming to your competitors.
Evil is the money of all root....
Socialism in ANY form is not democratic nor is it in alignment with choice, freedom or liberty.
Fox news is labled as conservative simply because the hypocritical liberals see any non-liberal view as a Conservative Conspiracy.
As for greed... I think that history has proven that it is indeed governments who provide the mechanism and logistical infrastructure for individuals, corporations or government agencies themselves to exert their will to control others for personal gain of power and money. There are two kinds of liberals... those that have led themselves to believe that results matter nothing next to "good intentions" regardless of where that road leaves, and the second are those that are merely acting out their internal aggression and will to control others while wrapping themselves in attractive sounding blankets (like "for the children"). Both care nothing about results and put more into rhetoric.
Also don't ever fall into that erroneous pit of confusing concern over and issue with "liberal views" as they are apples and piles of partially digested orange in poop.
Liberalism is about nothing but greed, corruption, emotional reactivism, and the desire to control others. Picket lines and fancy rhetoric change nothing just as painting a picture of Hitler kissing a baby changes what he was and what he did. Stop being animals led by sound-bites and jargon and start applying critical thought.
timothy brings up a big concern for people like myself that buy primarily used CDs. I own over 2,000 CDs for two reasons: I review music and I have bought used CDs since highschool. But the RIAA will never be able to stop the sale of used CDs and the MPAA of used DVDs. Even if they succeeded in closing Used CD stores and preventing new CD retailers from selling used CDs alongside the new CDs, pawn shops and eBay/Half.com would still be a huge challenge. What about yard sales? Truth be told, almost all the used CD stores I used to frequent have gone out of business because the web and pawn shops have done such a good job of taking over this micro consumer market. Plus, it's hard to keep a brick-n-mortar Used CD store open when chains like Djangos and Tower Records sell new AND used via their websites, giving them the ability to consollodate inventory across physical stores. My point in this post though is this: just like file-swapping, the RIAA will never be able to prevent libraries from stocking music and never be able to stop the resale of CDs/DVDs without the RIAA's dream of double-taxing royalties.