Slashdot Mirror

Get a mobile phone that runs Linux.

Buy a Neo FreeRunner phone and use a folding bluetooth keyboard. I'm using the developer's pre-release version of the FreeRunner (Neo GTA01) and I use my bt kbd with it all the time. The iGo folding keyboard fits in my front pocket.

You can run QTopia, the Openmoko software stack, or even a couple of (nearly) all python software stacks for the phone (Zad/Underground or zhone). All are based on Linux, of course.

The hardware list for the FreeRunner is:
* GSM phone
* only GPRS mobile internet :-(
* WiFi
* GPS
* Full bluetooth (host & client)
* Full USB (host & client)
* micro SD slot
* 2 accelerometers
* 400 MHz cpu
* 128 MB sdram
* 256 MB flash (but of course you mostly use the 8GB microsd you put in it)
* 640x480 touchscreen (great resolution, but a little small at 2.8")

This is just a hunch but if you are the kind to remotely administer your systems, you would also be the kind to want an open phone platform. I'm guessing openmoko is right up your alley.

Who needs iPhone or Blackberry when you can get thing like Neo 1973 free runner? http://www.openmoko.com/

Consider the open source alternative, OpenMoko No worries about some sudden "change in corporate direction" screwing you over.

Consider the open source alternative, OpenMoko No worries about some sudden "change in corporate direction" screwing you over.

http://www.openmoko.com/
http://wiki.openmoko.org/

Cheaper, open from top to bottom, and you can do anything on it that a 400 mhz ARM linux computer can do.

As a bonus, super high dpi screen (480x640, 2.8"), GPS, full bluetooth (not that watered-down, headset-only crap most phones come with), 802.11 g, two accelerometers for potential phone-as-magic-wand fun, and of course it's not locked to any carrier and you get a linux terminal.

Downsides: about one month still until release (now you can only get the Neo1973 with no accelerometers or wi-fi), only GPRS for mobile internet (no EDGE or 3G), software still in alpha-beta until later this year.

BTW: is someone on the slashdot coding staff aware of the bug where preview resets your subject line to that of the parent? This is on Firefox 2.0.0.12 on Windows 2000 if it matters.

The "that phone" he refers to is Openmoko (which is a platform, not a phone). I presume he *really* means the Neo FreeRunner.

Here's an edited copy of an earlier post I put up about the Neo FreeRunner:
FIC produces a totally open phone. The firmware for the GSM is closed, but I believe that's a legal requirement in most areas.

The Neo 1973 & Neo FreeRunner are linux ARM computers with full GPS, bluetooth, GSM/GPRS, USB (client & unpowered host) and 480 x 640 touchscreens. The FreeRunner also has two accelerometers and wi-fi. You can buy the Neo 1973 now (<-- no longer accurate; you can only buy used 1973s while FIC is gearing up to produce FreeRunner), and the FreeRunner is expected in March or April.

You can (of course) play video, music, and run PDA apps on the devices. You can also view PDFs and the web, use bluetooth keyboards (or bluetooth anything else, for that matter), or do anything that you or someone else cares to port from the desktop, assuming the hardware resources are sufficient.

I've been playing with my Neo 1973 (currently recommended only for people willing to debug, and tolerate alpha level software) for a few weeks, and I'm having a great time with it.

Not only the software is open - you can get CAD files for the case, and schematics as well. There are also i2c, etc. bus standards used so adding new hardware is easy as well, if you're so inclined. Obviously the real market there is for a cottage industry distributing neos with extra hardware built-in, but the hobbyist can experiment at home, too.

Check out the Openmoko wiki for much more information about Openmoko and the Neo phones.

It's going to be what? Six months to a year before we have open source phones via Android or OpenMoko. I'm guessing some sort of music downloading software via either WiFi or cellular internet won't be far behind. Limewire's already written in Java, so a port for Android can't be that hard. Even ignoring open source phones, we're not far from the day when internet through the cell phone is standard. Especially as free WiFi becomes more widespread, people are going to start to expect their cell phones to tap into that even if they aren't paying for internet packages and the cost of those internet packages is going to have to drop as people get used to the idea of free internet. I think it's pretty clear who's going to win when MusicStation Max is forced to compete on an open market against the likes of iTunes. I hope the people behind MusicStation Max have to sense to realize that their business model is only going to be any good in the very short term.

FIC produces a phone that qualifies. The firmware for the GSM is closed, but I believe that's a legal requirement in most areas.

The Neo 1973 & Neo FreeRunner are linux ARM computers with full GPS, bluetooth, GSM/GPRS, USB (client & unpowered host) and 480 x 640 touchscreens. The FreeRunner also has two accelerometers and wi-fi. You can buy the Neo 1973 now, and the FreeRunner is expected in March or April.

You can (of course) play video, music, and run PDA apps on the devices. You can also view PDFs and the web, use bluetooth keyboards (or bluetooth anything else, for that matter), or do anything that you or someone else cares to port from the desktop, assuming the hardware resources are sufficient.

I've been playing with my Neo 1973 (currently recommended only for people willing to debug, and tolerate alpha level software) for a few weeks, and I'm having a great time with it.

Not only the software is open - you can get CAD files for the case, and schematics as well. There are also i2c, etc. bus standards used so adding new hardware is easy as well, if you're so inclined. Obviously the real market there is for a cottage industry distributing neos with extra hardware built-in, but the hobbyist can experiment at home, too.

FIC produces a phone that qualifies. The firmware for the GSM is closed, but I believe that's a legal requirement in most areas.

The Neo 1973 & Neo FreeRunner are linux ARM computers with full GPS, bluetooth, GSM/GPRS, USB (client & unpowered host) and 480 x 640 touchscreens. The FreeRunner also has two accelerometers and wi-fi. You can buy the Neo 1973 now, and the FreeRunner is expected in March or April.

You can (of course) play video, music, and run PDA apps on the devices. You can also view PDFs and the web, use bluetooth keyboards (or bluetooth anything else, for that matter), or do anything that you or someone else cares to port from the desktop, assuming the hardware resources are sufficient.

I've been playing with my Neo 1973 (currently recommended only for people willing to debug, and tolerate alpha level software) for a few weeks, and I'm having a great time with it.

Not only the software is open - you can get CAD files for the case, and schematics as well. There are also i2c, etc. bus standards used so adding new hardware is easy as well, if you're so inclined. Obviously the real market there is for a cottage industry distributing neos with extra hardware built-in, but the hobbyist can experiment at home, too.

Now wouldn't it just tick off all of those Apple enthusiasts that bought the iPhone two days ago for $400 if Apple already dropped the phone's price to $150? Personally, I think the OpenMoko phone is cooler anyway. Linux geeks and design nuts, unite!

Have you actually read Microsoft's EULA? Any of them?

Besides, one could argue that the source code is a warranty unto itself: a warranty that nothing is hidden, and if it doesn't work, you can check it yourself. And if the development stops, you can pick it up yourself.

Therefore, Open Source software in itself warrants you the ability to check for spyware, to make provisions for continued development (what can you do when MS decides to EOL one of their products?) and the ability to fix bugs if you have or can afford the know-how.

And it seems to me that's much more than closed source software guarantees.

I'm buying it the moment it's ready for mass market as well.

Why don't you use a real signature? I don't mind seeing them, but I do mind having to edit them out.

Don't forget that most open source software comes with big warnings that there are absolutely no warranties. Do most consumers really expect the same from their hardware? While open hardware sounds great for me personally and probably much of the Slashdot crowd, the companies behind it need to have a very different focus than normal mass-market hardware. That is, they either need to choose to offer zero warranties on damage resulting from a user's actions, OR they can put a lot of effort into supporting and encouraging developers (which is what my company chooses to do). I'm not sure if we're ready to have mass-market expectations and developer-friendly devices meet.

Side note: I'm excited about openmoko, the open hardware (and open source software) cell phone. Waiting for the second revision, which will include 802.11.

--
Our microcontroller kit, guide, and free videos. Your GCC compiler. Learn digital electronics today!

While I feel you may be right, has anyone considered that 2008 may be the year of Linux on the mobile?

A significant premium indeed, 600 Euro extra NOT to be locked into a T-Mobile contract. For that reason alone, you can be pretty sure that phones sold as unlocked, will stay that way (and functional). Consumer protections are pretty strong in Germany. If a firmware update would re-lock or brick those phones, Apple or T-Mobile would face a class-action lawsuit, and surely lose it.

Probably more interesting is how Apple will provide firmware updates for these unlocked phones, as compared to updating phones that are locked to a specific provider. If it works exactly the same for locked and unlocked phones, that should give clues for a reliable/safe hack (that doesn't risk bricking your phone with future updates). If the procedure is different, that should give good info as to what exactly makes the phone locked. Either way, the mere existence of legally unlocked phones should be a boon for hackers (thank Vodafone for this side-effect of the temporary injunction).

Although it's a nice piece of hardware, I'd rather throw my money at one of these OpenMoko phones (when they're released as consumer-ready).

Because several linux phones are open enough that anyone can write programs for them, e.g. OpenMoko phones (which you can buy developer models of now) and Nokia Maemo phones (Look, I don't name these things...).

> What will Google's phone look like?

It bloody well better look like this. Geez, Google, got NIH syndrome much? Get a clue! Do the final 10-20% ON SOMETHING OPEN SOURCE and stop reinventing the bloody wheel already.

Apparently, Microsoft cares more about the Gphone (i.e. Android) than about the Openmoko probably because Google is behind (not just some obscure company). It could happen that Android is just an announcement to impress future stockholders or clients. But it is more probable that it is a real threat to Microsoft phones' OS. Maybe there is some alpha code already? What I don't understand is the relation between Gphone/Android and Openmoko. I hope Openmoko will succeed still! Again, the fact that Microsoft reacted to Gphone/Android but not to Openmoko (AFAIK) is significant.

The finished product, expected within months, will unabashedly favor Google applications and services. "What's being developed is unlikely to be easily transportable to Yahoo (YHOO) and other (service) providers," says Morgan Gillis, executive director of the LiMo Foundation

Consumers are potentially the biggest beneficiaries. Currently, many cellphone carriers limit the services and applications that their customers can use.

OpenMoko and the 1973 will fail just as the Greenphone did. There is no leadership behind the project, no vision, just a bunch of well-intentioned geeks who want to make something cool. With no cohesive plan, though, the Neo1973 will never succeed.

1. If OpenMoko doesn't succeed, it will be largely because of posts like the above. Enough negative sentiment will doom any project, however cool.
2. OpenMoko isn't a product, it's a platform. Sure, the Neo1973 isn't the all-time ultimate mobile phone - it's a development platform. That's why in addition to the pre-built phone you get a development board you can house in your own enclosure with your own battery, screen, and other hardware bits. If you don't like Neo1973, build your own phone round the platform.
3. When I first started using Linux in 1993, doomsayers were saying it was obsolete and would never fly. Guess what? They were wrong.

I'm not saying OpenMoko is the world's ultimate phone project. Of course it isn't. But it's a good, big start, and it deserves support. If you don't support it, don't complain if, in ten years time, all you can get are closed, proprietary phones you can't even load your own software on.

You know, I'm getting old. I belong to a generation which, when someone gave us cool hardware, we grabbed and built cool software on top of it. Now, if it isn't all pretty and polished right out of the box, it gets condemned as rubbish. Guess what? Linus Torvalds was just a college kid when he wrote the first kernel. His professors didn't even rate him as very good. Certainly no-one thought he had leadership potential. And as for a cohesive plan, his cohesive plan was to build a scheduler which could schedule two tasks.

Stuff happens. It will surprise you. OpenMoko may, indeed, not be a great success. But if it's a bit of a success, other people will be able to come along and build on it - it is open source. In fact, that's already happening - that's what this story is about. The GreenPhone is not 'dead', it has mutated. Instead of building their own hardware platform, the Trolls are developing the 'green suite' on the OpenMoko platform. So you can still have your greenphone - the only thing is, it will be black and silver, or white and orange.

OpenMoko and the 1973 will fail just as the Greenphone did. There is no leadership behind the project, no vision, just a bunch of well-intentioned geeks who want to make something cool. With no cohesive plan, though, the Neo1973 will never succeed.

1. If OpenMoko doesn't succeed, it will be largely because of posts like the above. Enough negative sentiment will doom any project, however cool.
2. OpenMoko isn't a product, it's a platform. Sure, the Neo1973 isn't the all-time ultimate mobile phone - it's a development platform. That's why in addition to the pre-built phone you get a development board you can house in your own enclosure with your own battery, screen, and other hardware bits. If you don't like Neo1973, build your own phone round the platform.
3. When I first started using Linux in 1993, doomsayers were saying it was obsolete and would never fly. Guess what? They were wrong.

I'm not saying OpenMoko is the world's ultimate phone project. Of course it isn't. But it's a good, big start, and it deserves support. If you don't support it, don't complain if, in ten years time, all you can get are closed, proprietary phones you can't even load your own software on.

You know, I'm getting old. I belong to a generation which, when someone gave us cool hardware, we grabbed and built cool software on top of it. Now, if it isn't all pretty and polished right out of the box, it gets condemned as rubbish. Guess what? Linus Torvalds was just a college kid when he wrote the first kernel. His professors didn't even rate him as very good. Certainly no-one thought he had leadership potential. And as for a cohesive plan, his cohesive plan was to build a scheduler which could schedule two tasks.

Stuff happens. It will surprise you. OpenMoko may, indeed, not be a great success. But if it's a bit of a success, other people will be able to come along and build on it - it is open source. In fact, that's already happening - that's what this story is about. The GreenPhone is not 'dead', it has mutated. Instead of building their own hardware platform, the Trolls are developing the 'green suite' on the OpenMoko platform. So you can still have your greenphone - the only thing is, it will be black and silver, or white and orange.

You mean like this or this?

The iPhone doesn't work on my university's network due to its poor (non-existent?) implementation of 802.1x. The final conclusion was that there is nothing we can do about it; Apple made their phone where it will not work on secured networks. Depending on where you live/work, the lack of real wifi is a deal-breaker to me.

If I wanted something like the iPhone, I'd wait for the Neo1973.

The iPhone doesn't work on my university's network due to its poor (non-existent?) implementation of 802.1x. The final conclusion was that there is nothing we can do about it; Apple made their phone where it will not work on secured networks. Depending on where you live/work, the lack of real wifi is a deal-breaker to me.

If I wanted something like the iPhone, I'd wait for the Neo1973.

• Treo 650 (Palm OS apps)
• Treo 700W (WindowsMobile ... or whatever it's called this week)
• All the Symbian stuff
• Linux phone I'm pretty sure you'll be able to customize the firmware without the FCC showing up

Here. Nokia, would you make something like it (but working)? Please?

I just posted about the Neo1973 from OpenMoko. It will be released soon and should cost between $300-450, depending on the model. It runs Linux and has a default GTK+ based user interface.

There are some YouTube videos showing Qtopia running on the Neo1973. You can check out the wiki article here

Crap, wrong button. That should be:

Or, you can buy a $300 GNU/Linux Neo1973 from OpenMoko

This is what you get if you buy a phone that's under the control of Apple, tied to one provider, only allowed to run 'approved' applications. Apple never said you'd get any different.

When reading articles like this one, Windows Genuine Advantage, even crap like the Patriot Act, they make me realise people don't care about freedom until they lose it. If Benjamin Franklin were a software engineer today, he'd probably say something like:

Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a shiny UI, deserve neither Liberty nor the shiny UI.

Oh, and f1st p0st, LOL

If you want a phone that won't try to lock you in, might I suggest the OpenMoko. It looks good and is completely open, why bother trying to work on a platform that's actively hostile? Get one that encourages hacking! Those that just want a phone that runs Apple's ShinyOS, get the iPhone.

The Neo 1973 is a GNU/Linux based phone that's supposed to be ready for the market around Christmas '07.

if you want a Linux based, good looking, feature full and open phone then have a look at Open Moko it is probably going to be capable of multitouch (the touchscreen hardware can do it but the software does not take advantage yet) it will come without a contract so I will be getting an O2 sim only contract when they come out next month. OpenMoko in October, OLPC in November, wow, I am going to be skint by Christmas.

iPhone, schmiPhone.

http://www.openmoko.com/

I *want* one!

http://openmoko.com/
- Touchscreen
- WLAN
- completely open
- A-GPS

And where exactly can I purchase one of those Openmokos?

You already can buy a truly open phone at http://www.openmoko.com/ .

I am very interested in OpenMoko and the Nokia Maemo Garage. Both the Nokia Internet Tablet and the OpenMoko are Arm based and perhaps the leap from one to the other would not be so great.

If the openmoko could run the apps that have been ported to Maemo it would be awesome.

I use my 770 for GPS primarily, but it is a pretty decent gizmo for quite a few different apps.

Your Treo does wifi

There is wifi available for it

and has a touch screen?

Are you being obtuse? Palms have had a touch screen since they came out over ten years ago.

And how much does the "sold separately" expansion card for the MP3 player hold?

I don't know what you are talking about, but TCPMP seems to play my OGGs just fine from any of my SD cards, which I've been using since I had a Palm m500. It's also handy to take the SD card from my digital camera and upload the pictures to my webserver via my Treo.

Does it also run OS X?

No; that's one of the reasons I like it :)

That screen sure is big.

Yeah, it's about 75% the size of the iPhone's screen. Not too shabby, especially considering that it came out on the market years ago.

Watch movies on it do you?

I do, with the aforementioned TCPMP, which I have source to. "HitchHiker's Guide to the Galaxy" is my current favorite. I also play NES and GameBoy games, keep track of my car's mileage, keep track of my finances, keep track of my passwords, administer my servers remotely, read books, get directions, browse the web, etc, etc. Hell, I can even write and run software, right on my Treo! I haven't been paying attention, is Apple allowing people to even *load* third party software on the iPhone yet? How about that battery, can you swap it out with a spare like I can on any of my Palm devices and cell phones? Can you expand the memory? $600 is a lot, but I can buy a Treo 650 and 15 1GB SD cards for that much money. Plus I wouldn't be locked into a single provider. Or I could even wait three months and get a fully open-sourced phone with even more features, and port all the software that I use to it.

You're "does it run OSX" bit gives you away: you're an Apple fanboy, and the only reason you replied was because you didn't have points to mod me down. Face it, the only thing new that the iPhone brings to the cell phone world is Apple's marketing power.

"iPhone-like features with a programmable device", "actually open phone platforms", http://www.openmoko.com/

Motorola F3 is a budget phone without extra features, monochromatic display, thin and easy to use (no, no camera, no mp3, no colors, no mms). I haven't used it, I just had it in my hands for while at a shop and put my eye on it closer. The design is nice and the phone is really thin. It's also cheap and thus suitable for people who can't afford all those all-in-one multimedia phones or for older people who don't need such features. I saw ads on this phone here, too (here = Slovak Rep.). Make a trip to Europe (vacation or something :) or get a friend to buy this phone for you and send it to U.S.

PS: But your dilemma makes me really happy I'm not in U.S. and still have no problems to buy such things or a computer without operating system.

PPS: Can't wait for OpenMoko

Well, I certainly don't care. I'm planning on putting in an order for an OpenMoko neo1973. ( details at http://www.openmoko.com/, not affiliated with them ) The cell phone guru at work has offered to help me with the connectivity side. Why should I wait on the benevolent dictator of cute to grace me with the knowledge he feels fit to bestow? I'm the kind of whacko that thinks a microwave should ship with an API CD and serial port.

I'm not an Apple basher, but definitely not a fan. It amazes me that they took a freely developed OS, used it as the foundation for their own commercial OS, used that in turn as a foundation for their proprietary locked down phone, and now won't even let the original BSD freelance guys write code for the phone! You can bet your last dollar anything I cobble together for the neo will be GPLv3.

Again, if you like Apple, go for it. I'm a utilitarian at heart and think it's perfectly OK to use technology without embracing the politics behind the scenes. But if so, you shouldn't honestly be asking for or expecting an unlock - you should take what they give you. Apple's business model is based on closed systems and keeping you locked in and everyone else locked out. If you support them then you implicitly support that philosophy.

Rather than having the FCC force manufacturers to make devices open, it would be more productive to buy from and support a manufacturer that chooses to be that way.

Didn't look far enough. No keyboard? Pshaw!

Um... the prices listed on the website are $300 for the phone, and $450 for the phone with a development kit (looks like the phone just comes in a fancy case... and something else)...

* Debug Flex Cable * Debug Board v2 (JTAG and serial console) * Ruggedized Toolbox with shoulder strap * Guitar Pick (for opening case) * Torx T6 screwdriver

I'm sure that will count this phone out for a lot of people here, for the same reason as the iPhone.

http://www.openmoko.com/products-neo-base-00-stdki t.html

The Neo 1973 boasts the following hardware specifications
2.8" VGA TFT color display
Touchscreen, usable with stylus or fingers
266HZ Samsung System on a Chip (SOC)
USB 1.1, switchable between Client and Host (unpowered)
Integrated AGPS
2.5G GSM - quad band, voice, CSD, GPRS
Bluetooth 2.0
Micro SD slot
High Quality audio codec

Will they start selling bandwidth to device we own instead of renting locked up box to sell us crappy features one by one? As if we couldn't code an irc client ourself...everyone does that in high school! :P Once more, now is the time to support the OpenMoko Project and the upcoming (on the 9th) OpenMoko [SC]ells Or any other similar projects but i didn't find many ... :( !

As for the price tag, the $450 is for the "basic" version - the "advanced" one is going to be $600

We're going to sell the Neo Base for $300. The Neo Advanced will be $450.