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Ideally, I'd like both the PDA/webpad to be in the same physical case as the phone, since I'm more likely to keep the PDA with me at all times, but that doesn't really seem to be a practical option right now... Suggestions welcome, though, if anyone's got any!

http://www.palm.com/us/products/smartphones/treo65 0/

Why isn't this a Blackberry competitor?

Would really love to see NetBSD, Linux with GPE/Opie on my Tungsten T3 :)

instruct.

I have never owned a PocketPC device, but I have had a palm for about two years now.

Yes, a palm -- another company that is "dying." However, I have been really, really happy with mine. I wanted to get a PDA for a long time (I am in my mid thirties now and only got it two years ago)! The early palms were too clunky (save the Palm V -- the first PDA I ever lusted after save for the screen at 160x160 was not acceptable). Then, they came out with the color devices, but still 160x160. Next, came Sony with the Clie -- sexy and 320x320, but you had memstick lock in and a higher price point for the same or sometimes fewer features -- not acceptable. Finally, palm went back to its roots a bit and just made a simple nice PDA (very much like the V I mentioned earlier) -- the Tungsten|E. As I said, I have had it about two years now, and it is great.

• Point 1) Battery life. I can and have listened to several hours of ogg files using Aeroplayer (for free if you just want oggs) or mp3s with the also free dioplayer. Both programs turn off the screen while playing, and the battery life is great (relatively). Also, both programs will automacially turn off when the battery gets to a critical level. I have not tried to run it dry to find out how long it would last, but I am guessing at least 5 hours -- and it trickle charges off the USB mini cable. Also, aeroplayer has many nice skins.

• Point 2) Crash. Palm's crash -- PocketPC's crash -- Desktop PCs crash -- although much less than they used to. However, with my palm, I have never lost data in a crash. Perhaps I am lucky, but even in the event of a crash, the palm is pretty stable. You can totally drain the battery (to where you loose data) if it crashes and you do not know it and reset it, but I find that scenario hard to imagine. Mine has only crashed while I was actively using it -- usually trying out some beta software or something. My palm has a built in feature that if the battery drops below a certain level, it will not turn back on until you charge it (if only my work Blackberry was so kind). It will last on that "no power on" state for about two weeks before finally loosing data.

• Point 3) Sync. Palm does not shine as far as syncing -- that is contacts and all (O if hotsync would die . . .). It works well once you have it set up, but it is nowhere near as simple as PocketPC (guy in next cube has one). However, as far as music syncing, just drag the tunes to the SD card, pop it out of the PC and into the palm -- bingo!

Enjoy!

I have never owned a PocketPC device, but I have had a palm for about two years now.

Yes, a palm -- another company that is "dying." However, I have been really, really happy with mine. I wanted to get a PDA for a long time (I am in my mid thirties now and only got it two years ago)! The early palms were too clunky (save the Palm V -- the first PDA I ever lusted after save for the screen at 160x160 was not acceptable). Then, they came out with the color devices, but still 160x160. Next, came Sony with the Clie -- sexy and 320x320, but you had memstick lock in and a higher price point for the same or sometimes fewer features -- not acceptable. Finally, palm went back to its roots a bit and just made a simple nice PDA (very much like the V I mentioned earlier) -- the Tungsten|E. As I said, I have had it about two years now, and it is great.

• Point 1) Battery life. I can and have listened to several hours of ogg files using Aeroplayer (for free if you just want oggs) or mp3s with the also free dioplayer. Both programs turn off the screen while playing, and the battery life is great (relatively). Also, both programs will automacially turn off when the battery gets to a critical level. I have not tried to run it dry to find out how long it would last, but I am guessing at least 5 hours -- and it trickle charges off the USB mini cable. Also, aeroplayer has many nice skins.

• Point 2) Crash. Palm's crash -- PocketPC's crash -- Desktop PCs crash -- although much less than they used to. However, with my palm, I have never lost data in a crash. Perhaps I am lucky, but even in the event of a crash, the palm is pretty stable. You can totally drain the battery (to where you loose data) if it crashes and you do not know it and reset it, but I find that scenario hard to imagine. Mine has only crashed while I was actively using it -- usually trying out some beta software or something. My palm has a built in feature that if the battery drops below a certain level, it will not turn back on until you charge it (if only my work Blackberry was so kind). It will last on that "no power on" state for about two weeks before finally loosing data.

• Point 3) Sync. Palm does not shine as far as syncing -- that is contacts and all (O if hotsync would die . . .). It works well once you have it set up, but it is nowhere near as simple as PocketPC (guy in next cube has one). However, as far as music syncing, just drag the tunes to the SD card, pop it out of the PC and into the palm -- bingo!

Enjoy!

Unless you sprung for extra storage, the space on your PDA is measured in tens of megabytes. On an iPod, it's measured in tens of gigabytes.

True in most cases. However, PDA manufacturers are starting to get the clue. It may be a little too late to capture much of the market, but just a few months ago, Palm introduced the LifeDrive which comes from the factory with a 4 GB hard drive. That is starting to be a decent amount of storage. In fact, it's sort of what a lot of manufacturers have realized is the sweet spot for a music device. (Unlike myself, lots of users apparently don't want to try to fit their whole music collection on their music player.)

Now, here's the problem: the LifeDrive is priced at $499. That's basically double what you'd pay for the 4GB iPod nano model. Granted, the LifeDrive does a lot more, but the question is whether consumers need or want those things.

The big problem here is probably just that PDA companies (at least Palm) aren't big enough players to make a profit on a cheap device. Apple can sell iPods for virtually no profit as a way of getting the iTunes Music Store off the ground, but a smaller company like Palm can't do that. Unless they can radically increase sales volume, they can't make a PDA with 4GB for much less than $499 and still make a profit. So, that makes the PDA a lot less competitive with a dedicated music player than it could be.

Also, keep in mind that there are reasons why PDAs are more expensive to make. They have to have more RAM, faster processors, and (most importantly) a bigger screen than something like an iPod has. The screen on the Palm LifeDrive is 320x480 pixels and 16-bit color. Any music player's screen isn't anywhere close to that, and it doesn't need to be for a dedicated music player device. Even the new video iPod only has a 320x240 screen, which is half the resolution. Just like in laptops, a bigger screen will really cost you.

Unless you sprung for extra storage, the space on your PDA is measured in tens of megabytes. On an iPod, it's measured in tens of gigabytes.

True in most cases. However, PDA manufacturers are starting to get the clue. It may be a little too late to capture much of the market, but just a few months ago, Palm introduced the LifeDrive which comes from the factory with a 4 GB hard drive. That is starting to be a decent amount of storage. In fact, it's sort of what a lot of manufacturers have realized is the sweet spot for a music device. (Unlike myself, lots of users apparently don't want to try to fit their whole music collection on their music player.)

Now, here's the problem: the LifeDrive is priced at $499. That's basically double what you'd pay for the 4GB iPod nano model. Granted, the LifeDrive does a lot more, but the question is whether consumers need or want those things.

The big problem here is probably just that PDA companies (at least Palm) aren't big enough players to make a profit on a cheap device. Apple can sell iPods for virtually no profit as a way of getting the iTunes Music Store off the ground, but a smaller company like Palm can't do that. Unless they can radically increase sales volume, they can't make a PDA with 4GB for much less than $499 and still make a profit. So, that makes the PDA a lot less competitive with a dedicated music player than it could be.

Also, keep in mind that there are reasons why PDAs are more expensive to make. They have to have more RAM, faster processors, and (most importantly) a bigger screen than something like an iPod has. The screen on the Palm LifeDrive is 320x480 pixels and 16-bit color. Any music player's screen isn't anywhere close to that, and it doesn't need to be for a dedicated music player device. Even the new video iPod only has a 320x240 screen, which is half the resolution. Just like in laptops, a bigger screen will really cost you.

It's obvious that these screens can scratch. It's exposed to everything that's in your pocket.

PDA users have had this problem for a long time, which is why there are brisk sales for PDA screen protectors.

<sarcasm>I guess my only question is why they aren't going after those bastard manufacturers who make the plastic and metal items that are responsible for scratching the iPod nanos.</sarcasm>

Don't get me wrong. I'm not an Apple-hater -- far from it. I use a Mac at work (designer) all day long, and you'd have to to pry my PowerBook® from my cold dead hands and all, but anyone that thinks it's earth-shattering is more than slightly behind the times. I've been watching video (divx, xvid, you name it), listening to mp3's *and* oggs for almost 2 years now on my Treo 600. It's also my cell phone, calendar, addressbook, yada-yada... I can even use it to ssh, vnc, ftp, or connect to Samba shares on my server at home and run several game console emulators on it (NES, GB, SG, etc.). The video iPod does have more disk space (although I've never had problems filling up my Treo's 2 Gig expansion card -- which card I can swap out for more space, if I ever *do* need it). Another key advantage is that my Treo 600 is also a digital camera and can even be a video camera. I use it to take short home movies of my kids when we're at the park or fair, or whatever and then export to mpegs. Not that the video iPod isn't cool and all, I'd just like to see more honesty in reporting the originality of the feature set.

I've been thinking of picking up a palm lifedrive (http://www.palm.com/us/products/mobilemanagers/li fedrive/) for my portable multimedia needs. I love how well the Palm works as a PDA, plus the fact that there are some good syncing applications in Linux. My only question is, what media formats can I play on this thing with third party software. This thing would rock if you could load a stripped down version of linux on it.

You're absolutely right. And we can see how well that is working for Palm right now!

I think it came out too late because the new Palm play 4gigs of music videos and it has wifi, email, web, docs, etc. http://www.palm.com/us/products/mobilemanagers/lif edrive/

I have a tungsten c, and unless they have revised the model, its crap.
WiFi settings are a real PITA and if you try to have more than 1 entry in the pre-configured access points, then it ends up not connecting to any of them. To edit an access point is impossible, you have to delete all the entries and start from scratch. At one point I had to run the system restore to get WiFi working again !
I had the screen go on mine after about 3 months which they fixed, but you can't use a decent wireless SD card (11g) because it has "built in" wireless (802.11b). Its a shame coz it looked good from the spec, but after owning it, all I can say is don't bother. The Tungsten E/ E2 seems like the one, with many more accessories available for it.
Less is more as they say ...

>And a PDA that needs a 30 meg update download?

Actually, you need 11 megabytes free on the device to upgrade the firmware. Arguably, execs on the go shouldnt even be doing this, their IT departments should be handling system updates. You wouldnt want them to upgrade from 2000 to XP on their own would you?

Granted, it is overhyped, but it does a lot of things people want. I just wish it wasnt so big and ugly.

"PalmOS ... is dying"

You might want to check that out:

"ACCESS to Extend Leadership in Mobile Device Software with Acquisition of PalmSource" (http://www.access.co.jp/english/press/050909.html )

"Palm and Microsoft Join to Bring the Palm Experience to Windows Mobile"
(http://www.palm.com/us/company/pr/news_feed_story .epl?reqid=760974)

Palm OS's biggest user, Palm (formerly PalmOne), just switched their flagship product to Palm OS. And PalmSource just got purchased by ACCESS, a company known for their embedded web browser.

Palm OS as we know it is dead.

"TiVo is dying"

Yes, they are. Their partnership with DIRECTV essentially ended when DIRECTV was purchased by News Corp (which owns NDS who already has a PVR solution); the D20 and other upcoming DIRECTV PVRs are based on NDS technology, not TiVo. As for cable companies, their only major deal has been with Comcast, and right now it looks like they won't even have product available until well into 2006. Comcast also already has their own PVR solution, and is already testing a Microsoft TV Foundation PVR, so TiVo probably isn't getting much in the way of royalties from the Comcast deal.

What is TiVo's competitive advantage over integrated PVRs? Yes, their software is better, but most people would rather have a lame integrated PVR than have to deal with the hassle of an IR changer cable.

http://www.palm.com/us/products/mobilemanagers/lif edrive/details.epl

ya?

Yeah, I've had an MP3-and video playback-capable phone for the last year or so. It's called the Treo 650. It works great.

I do agree with you. Even if computers are a good way to find informations, they don't offer a good reading comfort. Imagine yourself reading a 500-pages book in front of a screen : you soon get tired and disturbed. I'd rather read it layed down on my bed or sat in a comfortable chair.
Well, I don't. I read at least 200 pages from screen each and every day. And I have a very good experience with reading codelaw and textbooks from a palmtop.
Actually, I've been wanting to buy one of those, but they are somewhat expensive at the moment.

No, im serious. I have never been fond of palm OS, but they do normally make decent hardware.

PalmOS is made by PalmSource. They don't make hardware. Or were you unaware of the split?

Bull shit

PSP actually does what HASNT been done in a handheld before. PSP is the redefinition of handheld gaming. Not the DS. The DS is still limiting developers to poor hardware and low space restrictions. PSP on the other hand, has extremely easy-to-develop-for-hardware, extremely advanced hardware, and extremely large space (UMD). It changes how portable games are made and played. DS, doesnt.

As an example, how the hell is this redefining handheld gameplay?

Check these three names: Symbian, Palm, PocketPC.
These devices will get 3GB harddisks and 500MHz processors soon...

Working as an Engineer as I, before my Technical Support specialist job, was a verry full-filling and difficult job. Engineers are the persons innovating new technology, while the pseudo-Engineers with MCSE certification are the persons implementing or slandering the fruits of your labors by holding false-authority. Can you imagine how much techology some corporations run through and have utterly destroyed because they didn't comprehend the profit increase (that means saving money too). It makes many people wonder how Microsoft profits with having the highest specialized Technical Support inter-company employment per capita for its Operating System and Application software against other companies whos products don't need many technical support agents because their product serves its purpose as stated on their retail box.

It's possible, but it's not common by any means.

In that model of replace less useful with more useful, if Palm or competitors would figure out that with a consumer IR emitter* that for $120, they have a billion low end palms that are perfect Remotes (with a little simple software) and happen to hold address books and appts, etc.

*consumer IR is a slightly different wavelength, but it's fungeable with IrDA - but more important, it's modulated at between around 35k and 40k.
Smart folks have used the audio outputs of decent quality devices (unfo Wince based, usu) with a frequency doubler or tripler. Throw wave forms at it and it spits IR out.

RE: the desires of the parent post:

1. Mac OS X will certainly let Apple Script control its programs. It's almost "mom-able" to let a bluetooth (phone, say) trip macros.
2. any bt or WiFi device that talks to your computer can emit events. You're job is to xlate the event into a control signal to your program(s). Eg. "Next Song" or "pause".
   Perhaps when you and your BT phone get out of range (30' typically), the music will pause.
3. Why would you allow you or someone you know to run windows?
   "Windows: The OS for the rich and stupid"

This isn't hard. It's not even rocket science.
Just computer science.

My adicon ocelot is a $150-$200 device that speaks and hears IR, X10 and can expand to A/D, DA and digital IO.
And serial.
To my BSD box (and bsd is dying, yeah... yeah...)

It's got the single worst Windows interface to program it (macros: IF event then action1, action2, action3 perhaps GOTO another thing. I borrowed a windows laptop to get it to do something before I got the Unix tools so I could use vi to edit my "programs".

X10 or IR button (or with IO hardwired button) trips of a macro that can be as fancy as you want.

Webpage emits a command to a TTY to the Ocelot serial port to make a command.

$200 PDA speaks to Webpage via WiFI, I press "movie time" and the lights dim, the TV, DVD, amp and amp to subwoofer disguised as couch turn on.

Cost?
$100-$200 (or more) for WiFi aware PDA.
$175 for Ocelot.
$300 Unix box that also runs mail for 60 people, etc, etc
--------
Profit!

Obviously, all handheld consumers must be idiots since we voted with our wallets to choose the new color models over the old AAA powered ones.

So, I'm sticking with AT&T but still wish someone had the ultimate phone- bluetooth, mac and the ability to use ssh without spending $500+. I don't want a camera or to even browse the web, just give me mail and shell and I'd be extremely happy.

I snagged an Ericsson T610 recently...free after rebates, with a Bluetooth headset thrown in for another $20. It works with my Palm, so there should be no reason why it wouldn't work with your Mac. The rate plan I'm on with T-Mobile includes free unlimited data on certain ports (25, 80, 110, and 143 IIRC), which would get you your mail. An extra $10 per month should enable SSH. (I might go for that myself, as I haven't figured out how to get VersaMail to read anything beyond my main inbox...mailing-list traffic gets filed separately.) As things stand now, I'm paying only $10 more per month than I was spending with AT&T, and I'm getting more than double the airtime and data for my notebook and my Palm. (Yes, the T610 has a camera...it's little more than a novelty feature. It won't exactly replace my Coolpix 995 anytime soon.)

(In the past month, the price has come down...you can now make $50 after rebates at Amazon when you get this phone.)

I've owned several audis, including an '86 80 sport, a 1990 5cyl 100, and a 1995 S6. This guys website is full of useful stuff. He markets a kit for the palm pilot that should answer your needs Remember, far more energy is used, and more CO2 is produced in building a car than it will produce in its lifetime, so keeping old cars running is good for the environent!

Palm Zire 21 - $99 USD

Kyocera 7135 Smartphone - $499 USD.

Until they can close this gap, PDAs aren't going to be dead. And a $400 difference is going to take more than 1 year.

Propz to GNAA

These are some of the free (speech or beer) software I'd install on a family, non-gaming machine:

• Web Browser: Mozilla or Mozilla Firebird
• E-mail: Mozilla (cross-platform), Mozilla Thunderbird (cross-platform), Evolution (Gnome), or KMail (KDE)
• Office Suite: OpenOffice.org
• Media Player: QuickTime (Windows), Zinf (cross-platform), RealPlayer (cross-platform), WinAmp (Windows), MPlayer (Windows), XMMS (Linux)
• Image Viewer: IrfanView (Windows)
• Instant Messaging: Gaim (cross-platform)
• Personal Information Management: Palm Desktop Software (great PIM suite even if you don't own a Palm)
• Other: Acrobat Reader (although I'm weary of their DRM), Java 2 Runtime Environment, Macromedia Flash and Shockwave players, Ad-Aware (spyware remover for Windows), ZoneAlarm, Sygate Personal Firewall (firewall, alternative to ZoneAlarm), Grisoft AVG Anti-Virus, FileZilla, WinRAR (not free, shareware with nag window), Ofoto desktop software (basic photo album and touch-ups, even if you don't use Ofoto's online services)

Some other software I'd install on my own desktop (dev), in decreasing order of importance:

• Cygwin, bascially all packages
• UltraEdit32 (45-day trial shareware)
• TightVNC
• Ghostscript and GSView
• Java 2 SDK
• Eclipse
• Borland JBuilder Personal
• ActiveState Perl, Python, Tcl/Tk (yes, even though they are in Cygwin), Jython
• GIMP
• POV-Ray
• At least one of Apache, Tomcat, or Plone (Zope)
• HTTrack (a website copier)

I have been listening to ogg vorbis files for months now using my Palm Zire 71 and Aeroplayer. I got myself a 256 Meg SD card and I was off to the races.

I find this offering by Garmin to be superior to other combination PDA and fill-in-the-blank-with-MP3-Player-or-cell-phone-or -digital-camera.

It is particularly applicable for mobile professionals who often find themselves in unfamiliar cities. The high level sales executives where I work immediately come to mind. No they aren't stupid, they just often find themselves having to get to a certain downtown meeting in a city they have been to many times visiting different clients and I am sure it would be nice to have a mobile GPS integrated with the PDA they already carry anyway. Plus it is sleek and stylish enough that even the women in the power suits would pull it out of their purse at a meeting.

If theres no WiFi, what good is a PDA? I want to be able to get online, for free.

Offhand, I would say keeping a calendar, address book, to-do lists, note-taking, e-books, calculator, playing Audible.com content, viewing street maps, playing chess . . . you get the idea.

And besides, what are you complaining about? If you want a Palm w/ Wifi, go get a Tungsten|C.

Or a PocketPC w/ WiFi.

Or an SDIO or CF WiFi card.

Different people have different needs in a PDA. You (and I, actually) want WiFi in a handheld. Other people don't. The new Tungsten|T2 is targeted at the latter.

Now they've got too many faetures and extras, except for the zire, which feels very cheap and breakable to me (not to mention the TINY screen).

I don't know about the original Zire, since I've never used one. But I own a Zire 71 ($300), which is a beautiful little machine. It has a solid feel to the case, a gorgeous display (better than a lot of $400-600 handhelds I compared it to in-store), a built-in digital camera for simple picture taking, MP3 playback, and video playback. It also has the trademark "K.I.S.S. Palm" feel. My only gripe about it is the limited built-in memory (16MB), which requires you to buy an SD card to truly take advantage of its multimedia features.

Palm has made some really crappy handhelds over the last couple of years, but I think they finally smartened up and know where they are going now. The Tungsten line represents the exact opposite of K.I.S.S., whereas the Zire series represents the "pick up and use" philosophy that you so desire. In fact, the Zire 71 seems to me a lot like the approach Apple tends to take - beautiful hardware with a clean, stable OS and a nice feature set.

Handspring has transitioned themselves into a smartphone provider after moving away from the typical PDAs, and only now are they starting to catch on. palm has met only mild success with their smartphone/blackberry type device, the Tungsten W. If palm wanted to kill off handspring, why would they buy a company that makes nothing but smartphones? Handspring certainly isn't going after palm's core business, straight-up PDAs.

Furthermore, earlier reports of the Handspring buyout mentioned that Palm was particularly intrigued by the Treo 600, and that device is pretty much what clinched the deal (in other words, Handspring didn't just stop dead in their tracks). Why kill off the product that caused you to buy the company?

It's fairly apparent that Palm is planning to attack all markets. If I were a betting man, I would be expecting the Tungsten W to quietly go away, while the Treo will become Palm's super new smartphone. While it's true that the Tungsten W is more business oriented, it doesn't seem such a stretch for them to make a device and call it Tungsten Treo or something. The T|C is only offered in conjunction with AT&T. Handspring has agreements with Tmobile, Cingular, and Sprint. These are resources palm would enjoy to have.

The tungsten T isn't designed to have a builtin phone, or a builtin camera, or anything fancy. It's palm's business workhorse, and is priced accordingly.

Yes. The palm itself is not powerful enough to resize the images and render the documents, so they use a mandatory proxy that does the job. I don't know how fast it is, but it's really annoying that the palm can't connect directly.

I hate the concept so much because:

1. AvantGo has to do the same thing, and their proxy is overloaded and many times you must reload. I don't know if the palm thing is different.
2. What if Palm dies? Their proxy will die too and that will render the browser useless.

How do I know that it uses a proxy? If you look at the palm web browser page, you'll see on the bottom of the page that they mention that ports 8827 and 8775 must be open. I can't check if this thing would work without a proxy, because their browser won't work with earlier palms.

I should mention the Palm (III and above?) can do normal TCP/IP as long as you use a modem and not the proprietary web-only palm.NET service (I think it can even listen too but I doubt it can run servers), and there are a couple of palm browsers that access web servers directly without a proxy, like the free EudoraWeb and Xiino. But nobody seems to support them anymore and they got problems: EudoraWeb is very nice but can't load docs bigger than 21k, and Xiino is even nicer than EudoraWeb but it got a very annoying bug with radio buttons (when there are many radio buttons, it makes some of them selected).

I couldn't find any usable browser for palm which doesn't have the problems I listed above, even that I looked a lot. If anyone can recommend me one I'd be very glad, but till then I am really disappointed and frustrated at Palm. I bet that the browsing in the competitors (PocketPC/Zaurus) is much better.

Er, the original Tungsten|T has a stereo Headphone Jack, as clearly indicated here.

This looks oddly familiar, minus the links about the comparably priced Palms. No, I'm not complaining. It's just weird. But I do hope for a little more consistency in the future, especially considering that Amazon taking orders for this watch was considered front-pageworthy.

* 2003-07-17 14:15:56 Mossberg Reviews Fossil's Palm PDA Wristwatch (articles,pilot) (rejected)

It's not really a handheld, but in today's Personal Technology column Walt Mossberg reviews Fossil's Palm-based PDA wristwatch that was announced at Comdex 2002. Not surprisingly, he finds it difficult to input data with the micro-stylus [insert your own joke here] it comes with, but thinks it's fine if you just want to view your to-do list, calendar or contact list. On the upside, he likes the black and white screen quality and the display features. You can see the Fossil Tech watches at Fossil's site. For the $275-$295 price tag you could get a real, usable Palm such as the color m515 or the Zire 71 with a camera, or if you prefer an even lower price, the $199 m130 - but then price isn't as much of a consideration as the geek-cred.

This looks oddly familiar, minus the links about the comparably priced Palms. No, I'm not complaining. It's just weird. But I do hope for a little more consistency in the future, especially considering that Amazon taking orders for this watch was considered front-pageworthy.

* 2003-07-17 14:15:56 Mossberg Reviews Fossil's Palm PDA Wristwatch (articles,pilot) (rejected)

It's not really a handheld, but in today's Personal Technology column Walt Mossberg reviews Fossil's Palm-based PDA wristwatch that was announced at Comdex 2002. Not surprisingly, he finds it difficult to input data with the micro-stylus [insert your own joke here] it comes with, but thinks it's fine if you just want to view your to-do list, calendar or contact list. On the upside, he likes the black and white screen quality and the display features. You can see the Fossil Tech watches at Fossil's site. For the $275-$295 price tag you could get a real, usable Palm such as the color m515 or the Zire 71 with a camera, or if you prefer an even lower price, the $199 m130 - but then price isn't as much of a consideration as the geek-cred.

This looks oddly familiar, minus the links about the comparably priced Palms. No, I'm not complaining. It's just weird. But I do hope for a little more consistency in the future, especially considering that Amazon taking orders for this watch was considered front-pageworthy.

* 2003-07-17 14:15:56 Mossberg Reviews Fossil's Palm PDA Wristwatch (articles,pilot) (rejected)

It's not really a handheld, but in today's Personal Technology column Walt Mossberg reviews Fossil's Palm-based PDA wristwatch that was announced at Comdex 2002. Not surprisingly, he finds it difficult to input data with the micro-stylus [insert your own joke here] it comes with, but thinks it's fine if you just want to view your to-do list, calendar or contact list. On the upside, he likes the black and white screen quality and the display features. You can see the Fossil Tech watches at Fossil's site. For the $275-$295 price tag you could get a real, usable Palm such as the color m515 or the Zire 71 with a camera, or if you prefer an even lower price, the $199 m130 - but then price isn't as much of a consideration as the geek-cred.

Well, you should've just bougth the Tungsten W in stead. It includes GSM/GPRS so you could use it anywhere. Then you could take your kids to Disneyworld and still read e-mails.

i dunno if you have a need for a multi-gigabyte audioplayer, but if you get yourself a palmpilot, such as the palm Tungsten|T you can get a program called aeroplayer for that which plays mp3 and ogg. the ogg part is free, but the mp3 ability expires after 14 days and costs ~US$20

compared to a standalone audioplayer, the Tungsten is rather pricy, but keep in mind its really designed as a PDA. besides, your average audioplayer doesn't have a 320x320 color screen.

The Tungsten W already does this. I have a friend who has one. She says its a total pain in the ass to answer your phone when it rings. Unfortuneately she requires the functionality of a palm-based pda/phone, but AT&T didn't carry anything else. She would have prefered the Samsung I330.

Good thing Palm stuck to Graffiti. That touch screen only looks wide enough for one chracter.

I think it's because of all the feature-piling. I bought a Visor Neo a year or so ago and have no need for a new PDA in and of itself. The Neo does its job well. But the newer PDAs have cameras, mp3 players, color displays, etc. etc. Of course, sooner or later I will convince myself I can't live without these features, and my old Neo won't cut the mustard anymore. Or, more accurately, will seem like it won't.

Of course, piling on Bluetooth, video players, and other (IMHO, often superfluous) features jacks up the price. The barebones PDAs are still under $100. But there's no need to buy another one of those every year, so they have to drive the market somehow.

That said, when I do get a new PDA, it will be the Zire 71. All the features I need, and a couple I don't, for a (fairly) decent price. And no stupid built-in keyboard (I hate those things).

I don't want a PDA/phone. That means I can't use the PDA and talk on the phone at the same time. And devices that try to comprimise between PDA and phone functions are generally not that good at either.

What I do want is a phone headset that I can use without risk of garroting myself. And I want to browse the web using a portable device I already own and am familiar with: a Palm m515.

If the restriction to Bluetooth applications is, "The phone must be in your pocket, not on your desk," I think I can live with that!

Springboards?

Further more, they both run PalmOS 5 and are much faster using the RISC processors instead of the old 680x0 dragonball chips.

Actually, I have a difficult time choosing for either the one which is cheap (Zire 71, 300 Euro's) and has stereo sound and a basic digicam or for the one that has wifi, and a nice keyboard and is more expensive (TC, 500 Euro's)...

Further more, they both run PalmOS 5 and are much faster using the RISC processors instead of the old 680x0 dragonball chips.

Actually, I have a difficult time choosing for either the one which is cheap (Zire 71, 300 Euro's) and has stereo sound and a basic digicam or for the one that has wifi, and a nice keyboard and is more expensive (TC, 500 Euro's)...

Palm is going to tank pretty soon unless they put some real hardware in their machines.

What, like an Intel XScale 400mhz processor in a unit that has a better screen and lower cost than a comparable PocketPC device?

AV320 is 4.4 x 3.2 x 1.2 inches, 12.5 ounces
palm tungston is 4.8 x 3.1 x 0.7 inches, 6.3 ounces
apple ipod is 4.1 x 2.4 x 0.6 inches, 5.6 ounces

playing movies is nice, but not at twice the depth and weight.
sorry, that's too heavy and too deep.

all i want is a touchscreen, good sound output, and 5+gb storage.
manage it with a real OS (like palm, linux, even winCE) and you'll have my money.

I have a Nokia 6210. I found that with a little practice the keypad is fine for entering short messages. You just have to try it till you get the hang of it. For longer messages I do tend to use the SMS software on my Palm (m100 and m515, I'm migrating from the m100 to the m515) as it's slightly quicker.

Stephen