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Thank you for the information.

P.S. Are you also the cronocloud posting in playstation2-linux.com?

Message: 51037
BY: aragon
DATE: 2009-Aug-21 06:26
SUBJECT: Why no Linux in PS3 Slim?

Hello,

I've found very disgusting the fact of removing the Other OS option in the PS3 Slim model, and the worst: without explanation. In previous cuts, as it was with the PS2 compatibility it was explained that was in order to cut price, removing PS2 CPU chip first, and PS2 graphic and memory subsistem second, which I found acceptable as explanation.

Why? Is being used unencrypted RAM access or similar? Or is just a plain rip-off?

I know that there are many kind people at Sony Computer Entertainment, so please, if possible, give at least a short explanation of why it has been discontinued the Other OS option in the new PS3s.

Thank you in advance,

aragon

P.S. PS2 Linux user since 2002, and since 2007 for the PS3.
P.S.2. I still can not believe it, what a disgrace.

Removed answer and further replies:

Read and respond to this message at: http://playstation2-linux.com/forum/message.php?msg_id=51038
By: sarahe

Hi aragon,

I'm sorry that you are frustrated by the lack of comment specifically regarding the withdrawal of support for OtherOS on the new PS3 slim.

The reasons are simple: The PS3 Slim is a major cost reduction involving many changes to hardware components in the PS3 design. In order to offer the OtherOS install, SCE would need to continue to maintain the OtherOS hypervisor drivers for any significant hardware changes - this costs SCE. One of our key objectives with the new model is to pass on cost savings to the consumer with a lower retail price. Unfortunately in this case the cost of OtherOS install did not fit with the wider objective to offer a lower cost PS3.

We'll see if we can get the offical OtherOS page updated with something to this effect so that an official explanation is provided. Thank you for your comments.

Sarah.

- - - - - - - -

Read and respond to this message at: http://playstation2-linux.com/forum/message.php?msg_id=51039 By: aragon

Thank you very much for the answer, Sarah.

Anyway, if its just a software related point, I hope that it may be addressed in the future, if users request is enough important for making worth the driver update effort.

Best regards,

aragon

- - - - - - - -

Read and respond to this message at: http://playstation2-linux.com/forum/message.php?msg_id=51040
By: f5inet

Thanks for the extra-official explain, sarahe.

could will be possible for SCE to develop and sell a 'PS3-Slim OtherOS license'?. since there is a few wannabe/homebrew projects running in PS3 hardware (the cheapest IBM-cell developer machine), and these projects are dumped to dust with this major revision of PS3-architectur

Message: 51037
BY: aragon
DATE: 2009-Aug-21 06:26
SUBJECT: Why no Linux in PS3 Slim?

Hello,

I've found very disgusting the fact of removing the Other OS option in the PS3 Slim model, and the worst: without explanation. In previous cuts, as it was with the PS2 compatibility it was explained that was in order to cut price, removing PS2 CPU chip first, and PS2 graphic and memory subsistem second, which I found acceptable as explanation.

Why? Is being used unencrypted RAM access or similar? Or is just a plain rip-off?

I know that there are many kind people at Sony Computer Entertainment, so please, if possible, give at least a short explanation of why it has been discontinued the Other OS option in the new PS3s.

Thank you in advance,

aragon

P.S. PS2 Linux user since 2002, and since 2007 for the PS3.
P.S.2. I still can not believe it, what a disgrace.

Removed answer and further replies:

Read and respond to this message at: http://playstation2-linux.com/forum/message.php?msg_id=51038
By: sarahe

Hi aragon,

I'm sorry that you are frustrated by the lack of comment specifically regarding the withdrawal of support for OtherOS on the new PS3 slim.

The reasons are simple: The PS3 Slim is a major cost reduction involving many changes to hardware components in the PS3 design. In order to offer the OtherOS install, SCE would need to continue to maintain the OtherOS hypervisor drivers for any significant hardware changes - this costs SCE. One of our key objectives with the new model is to pass on cost savings to the consumer with a lower retail price. Unfortunately in this case the cost of OtherOS install did not fit with the wider objective to offer a lower cost PS3.

We'll see if we can get the offical OtherOS page updated with something to this effect so that an official explanation is provided. Thank you for your comments.

Sarah.

- - - - - - - -

Read and respond to this message at: http://playstation2-linux.com/forum/message.php?msg_id=51039 By: aragon

Thank you very much for the answer, Sarah.

Anyway, if its just a software related point, I hope that it may be addressed in the future, if users request is enough important for making worth the driver update effort.

Best regards,

aragon

- - - - - - - -

Read and respond to this message at: http://playstation2-linux.com/forum/message.php?msg_id=51040
By: f5inet

Thanks for the extra-official explain, sarahe.

could will be possible for SCE to develop and sell a 'PS3-Slim OtherOS license'?. since there is a few wannabe/homebrew projects running in PS3 hardware (the cheapest IBM-cell developer machine), and these projects are dumped to dust with this major revision of PS3-architectur

Message: 51037
BY: aragon
DATE: 2009-Aug-21 06:26
SUBJECT: Why no Linux in PS3 Slim?

Hello,

I've found very disgusting the fact of removing the Other OS option in the PS3 Slim model, and the worst: without explanation. In previous cuts, as it was with the PS2 compatibility it was explained that was in order to cut price, removing PS2 CPU chip first, and PS2 graphic and memory subsistem second, which I found acceptable as explanation.

Why? Is being used unencrypted RAM access or similar? Or is just a plain rip-off?

I know that there are many kind people at Sony Computer Entertainment, so please, if possible, give at least a short explanation of why it has been discontinued the Other OS option in the new PS3s.

Thank you in advance,

aragon

P.S. PS2 Linux user since 2002, and since 2007 for the PS3.
P.S.2. I still can not believe it, what a disgrace.

Removed answer and further replies:

Read and respond to this message at: http://playstation2-linux.com/forum/message.php?msg_id=51038
By: sarahe

Hi aragon,

I'm sorry that you are frustrated by the lack of comment specifically regarding the withdrawal of support for OtherOS on the new PS3 slim.

The reasons are simple: The PS3 Slim is a major cost reduction involving many changes to hardware components in the PS3 design. In order to offer the OtherOS install, SCE would need to continue to maintain the OtherOS hypervisor drivers for any significant hardware changes - this costs SCE. One of our key objectives with the new model is to pass on cost savings to the consumer with a lower retail price. Unfortunately in this case the cost of OtherOS install did not fit with the wider objective to offer a lower cost PS3.

We'll see if we can get the offical OtherOS page updated with something to this effect so that an official explanation is provided. Thank you for your comments.

Sarah.

- - - - - - - -

Read and respond to this message at: http://playstation2-linux.com/forum/message.php?msg_id=51039 By: aragon

Thank you very much for the answer, Sarah.

Anyway, if its just a software related point, I hope that it may be addressed in the future, if users request is enough important for making worth the driver update effort.

Best regards,

aragon

- - - - - - - -

Read and respond to this message at: http://playstation2-linux.com/forum/message.php?msg_id=51040
By: f5inet

Thanks for the extra-official explain, sarahe.

could will be possible for SCE to develop and sell a 'PS3-Slim OtherOS license'?. since there is a few wannabe/homebrew projects running in PS3 hardware (the cheapest IBM-cell developer machine), and these projects are dumped to dust with this major revision of PS3-architectur

Message: 51037
BY: aragon
DATE: 2009-Aug-21 06:26
SUBJECT: Why no Linux in PS3 Slim?

Hello,

I've found very disgusting the fact of removing the Other OS option in the PS3 Slim model, and the worst: without explanation. In previous cuts, as it was with the PS2 compatibility it was explained that was in order to cut price, removing PS2 CPU chip first, and PS2 graphic and memory subsistem second, which I found acceptable as explanation.

Why? Is being used unencrypted RAM access or similar? Or is just a plain rip-off?

I know that there are many kind people at Sony Computer Entertainment, so please, if possible, give at least a short explanation of why it has been discontinued the Other OS option in the new PS3s.

Thank you in advance,

aragon

P.S. PS2 Linux user since 2002, and since 2007 for the PS3.
P.S.2. I still can not believe it, what a disgrace.

Removed answer and further replies:

Read and respond to this message at: http://playstation2-linux.com/forum/message.php?msg_id=51038
By: sarahe

Hi aragon,

I'm sorry that you are frustrated by the lack of comment specifically regarding the withdrawal of support for OtherOS on the new PS3 slim.

The reasons are simple: The PS3 Slim is a major cost reduction involving many changes to hardware components in the PS3 design. In order to offer the OtherOS install, SCE would need to continue to maintain the OtherOS hypervisor drivers for any significant hardware changes - this costs SCE. One of our key objectives with the new model is to pass on cost savings to the consumer with a lower retail price. Unfortunately in this case the cost of OtherOS install did not fit with the wider objective to offer a lower cost PS3.

We'll see if we can get the offical OtherOS page updated with something to this effect so that an official explanation is provided. Thank you for your comments.

Sarah.

- - - - - - - -

Read and respond to this message at: http://playstation2-linux.com/forum/message.php?msg_id=51039 By: aragon

Thank you very much for the answer, Sarah.

Anyway, if its just a software related point, I hope that it may be addressed in the future, if users request is enough important for making worth the driver update effort.

Best regards,

aragon

- - - - - - - -

Read and respond to this message at: http://playstation2-linux.com/forum/message.php?msg_id=51040
By: f5inet

Thanks for the extra-official explain, sarahe.

could will be possible for SCE to develop and sell a 'PS3-Slim OtherOS license'?. since there is a few wannabe/homebrew projects running in PS3 hardware (the cheapest IBM-cell developer machine), and these projects are dumped to dust with this major revision of PS3-architectur

Message: 51037
BY: aragon
DATE: 2009-Aug-21 06:26
SUBJECT: Why no Linux in PS3 Slim?

Hello,

I've found very disgusting the fact of removing the Other OS option in the PS3 Slim model, and the worst: without explanation. In previous cuts, as it was with the PS2 compatibility it was explained that was in order to cut price, removing PS2 CPU chip first, and PS2 graphic and memory subsistem second, which I found acceptable as explanation.

Why? Is being used unencrypted RAM access or similar? Or is just a plain rip-off?

I know that there are many kind people at Sony Computer Entertainment, so please, if possible, give at least a short explanation of why it has been discontinued the Other OS option in the new PS3s.

Thank you in advance,

aragon

P.S. PS2 Linux user since 2002, and since 2007 for the PS3.
P.S.2. I still can not believe it, what a disgrace.

Removed answer and further replies:

Read and respond to this message at: http://playstation2-linux.com/forum/message.php?msg_id=51038
By: sarahe

Hi aragon,

I'm sorry that you are frustrated by the lack of comment specifically regarding the withdrawal of support for OtherOS on the new PS3 slim.

The reasons are simple: The PS3 Slim is a major cost reduction involving many changes to hardware components in the PS3 design. In order to offer the OtherOS install, SCE would need to continue to maintain the OtherOS hypervisor drivers for any significant hardware changes - this costs SCE. One of our key objectives with the new model is to pass on cost savings to the consumer with a lower retail price. Unfortunately in this case the cost of OtherOS install did not fit with the wider objective to offer a lower cost PS3.

We'll see if we can get the offical OtherOS page updated with something to this effect so that an official explanation is provided. Thank you for your comments.

Sarah.

- - - - - - - -

Read and respond to this message at: http://playstation2-linux.com/forum/message.php?msg_id=51039 By: aragon

Thank you very much for the answer, Sarah.

Anyway, if its just a software related point, I hope that it may be addressed in the future, if users request is enough important for making worth the driver update effort.

Best regards,

aragon

- - - - - - - -

Read and respond to this message at: http://playstation2-linux.com/forum/message.php?msg_id=51040
By: f5inet

Thanks for the extra-official explain, sarahe.

could will be possible for SCE to develop and sell a 'PS3-Slim OtherOS license'?. since there is a few wannabe/homebrew projects running in PS3 hardware (the cheapest IBM-cell developer machine), and these projects are dumped to dust with this major revision of PS3-architectur

Message: 51037
BY: aragon
DATE: 2009-Aug-21 06:26
SUBJECT: Why no Linux in PS3 Slim?

Hello,

I've found very disgusting the fact of removing the Other OS option in the PS3 Slim model, and the worst: without explanation. In previous cuts, as it was with the PS2 compatibility it was explained that was in order to cut price, removing PS2 CPU chip first, and PS2 graphic and memory subsistem second, which I found acceptable as explanation.

Why? Is being used unencrypted RAM access or similar? Or is just a plain rip-off?

I know that there are many kind people at Sony Computer Entertainment, so please, if possible, give at least a short explanation of why it has been discontinued the Other OS option in the new PS3s.

Thank you in advance,

aragon

P.S. PS2 Linux user since 2002, and since 2007 for the PS3.
P.S.2. I still can not believe it, what a disgrace.

Removed answer and further replies:

Read and respond to this message at: http://playstation2-linux.com/forum/message.php?msg_id=51038
By: sarahe

Hi aragon,

I'm sorry that you are frustrated by the lack of comment specifically regarding the withdrawal of support for OtherOS on the new PS3 slim.

The reasons are simple: The PS3 Slim is a major cost reduction involving many changes to hardware components in the PS3 design. In order to offer the OtherOS install, SCE would need to continue to maintain the OtherOS hypervisor drivers for any significant hardware changes - this costs SCE. One of our key objectives with the new model is to pass on cost savings to the consumer with a lower retail price. Unfortunately in this case the cost of OtherOS install did not fit with the wider objective to offer a lower cost PS3.

We'll see if we can get the offical OtherOS page updated with something to this effect so that an official explanation is provided. Thank you for your comments.

Sarah.

- - - - - - - -

Read and respond to this message at: http://playstation2-linux.com/forum/message.php?msg_id=51039 By: aragon

Thank you very much for the answer, Sarah.

Anyway, if its just a software related point, I hope that it may be addressed in the future, if users request is enough important for making worth the driver update effort.

Best regards,

aragon

- - - - - - - -

Read and respond to this message at: http://playstation2-linux.com/forum/message.php?msg_id=51040
By: f5inet

Thanks for the extra-official explain, sarahe.

could will be possible for SCE to develop and sell a 'PS3-Slim OtherOS license'?. since there is a few wannabe/homebrew projects running in PS3 hardware (the cheapest IBM-cell developer machine), and these projects are dumped to dust with this major revision of PS3-architectur

Message: 51037
BY: aragon
DATE: 2009-Aug-21 06:26
SUBJECT: Why no Linux in PS3 Slim?

Hello,

I've found very disgusting the fact of removing the Other OS option in the PS3 Slim model, and the worst: without explanation. In previous cuts, as it was with the PS2 compatibility it was explained that was in order to cut price, removing PS2 CPU chip first, and PS2 graphic and memory subsistem second, which I found acceptable as explanation.

Why? Is being used unencrypted RAM access or similar? Or is just a plain rip-off?

I know that there are many kind people at Sony Computer Entertainment, so please, if possible, give at least a short explanation of why it has been discontinued the Other OS option in the new PS3s.

Thank you in advance,

aragon

P.S. PS2 Linux user since 2002, and since 2007 for the PS3.
P.S.2. I still can not believe it, what a disgrace.

Removed answer and further replies:

Read and respond to this message at: http://playstation2-linux.com/forum/message.php?msg_id=51038
By: sarahe

Hi aragon,

I'm sorry that you are frustrated by the lack of comment specifically regarding the withdrawal of support for OtherOS on the new PS3 slim.

The reasons are simple: The PS3 Slim is a major cost reduction involving many changes to hardware components in the PS3 design. In order to offer the OtherOS install, SCE would need to continue to maintain the OtherOS hypervisor drivers for any significant hardware changes - this costs SCE. One of our key objectives with the new model is to pass on cost savings to the consumer with a lower retail price. Unfortunately in this case the cost of OtherOS install did not fit with the wider objective to offer a lower cost PS3.

We'll see if we can get the offical OtherOS page updated with something to this effect so that an official explanation is provided. Thank you for your comments.

Sarah.

- - - - - - - -

Read and respond to this message at: http://playstation2-linux.com/forum/message.php?msg_id=51039 By: aragon

Thank you very much for the answer, Sarah.

Anyway, if its just a software related point, I hope that it may be addressed in the future, if users request is enough important for making worth the driver update effort.

Best regards,

aragon

- - - - - - - -

Read and respond to this message at: http://playstation2-linux.com/forum/message.php?msg_id=51040
By: f5inet

Thanks for the extra-official explain, sarahe.

could will be possible for SCE to develop and sell a 'PS3-Slim OtherOS license'?. since there is a few wannabe/homebrew projects running in PS3 hardware (the cheapest IBM-cell developer machine), and these projects are dumped to dust with this major revision of PS3-architectur

Message: 51037
BY: aragon
DATE: 2009-Aug-21 06:26
SUBJECT: Why no Linux in PS3 Slim?

Hello,

I've found very disgusting the fact of removing the Other OS option in the PS3 Slim model, and the worst: without explanation. In previous cuts, as it was with the PS2 compatibility it was explained that was in order to cut price, removing PS2 CPU chip first, and PS2 graphic and memory subsistem second, which I found acceptable as explanation.

Why? Is being used unencrypted RAM access or similar? Or is just a plain rip-off?

I know that there are many kind people at Sony Computer Entertainment, so please, if possible, give at least a short explanation of why it has been discontinued the Other OS option in the new PS3s.

Thank you in advance,

aragon

P.S. PS2 Linux user since 2002, and since 2007 for the PS3.
P.S.2. I still can not believe it, what a disgrace.

Removed answer and further replies:

Read and respond to this message at: http://playstation2-linux.com/forum/message.php?msg_id=51038
By: sarahe

Hi aragon,

I'm sorry that you are frustrated by the lack of comment specifically regarding the withdrawal of support for OtherOS on the new PS3 slim.

The reasons are simple: The PS3 Slim is a major cost reduction involving many changes to hardware components in the PS3 design. In order to offer the OtherOS install, SCE would need to continue to maintain the OtherOS hypervisor drivers for any significant hardware changes - this costs SCE. One of our key objectives with the new model is to pass on cost savings to the consumer with a lower retail price. Unfortunately in this case the cost of OtherOS install did not fit with the wider objective to offer a lower cost PS3.

We'll see if we can get the offical OtherOS page updated with something to this effect so that an official explanation is provided. Thank you for your comments.

Sarah.

- - - - - - - -

Read and respond to this message at: http://playstation2-linux.com/forum/message.php?msg_id=51039 By: aragon

Thank you very much for the answer, Sarah.

Anyway, if its just a software related point, I hope that it may be addressed in the future, if users request is enough important for making worth the driver update effort.

Best regards,

aragon

- - - - - - - -

Read and respond to this message at: http://playstation2-linux.com/forum/message.php?msg_id=51040
By: f5inet

Thanks for the extra-official explain, sarahe.

could will be possible for SCE to develop and sell a 'PS3-Slim OtherOS license'?. since there is a few wannabe/homebrew projects running in PS3 hardware (the cheapest IBM-cell developer machine), and these projects are dumped to dust with this major revision of PS3-architectur

BY: sarahe
DATE: 2009-Aug-21 22:23
SUBJECT: RE: Why no Linux in PS3 Slim?

Hi aragon,

I'm sorry that you are frustrated by the lack of comment specifically regarding the withdrawal of support for OtherOS on the new PS3 slim.

The reasons are simple: The PS3 Slim is a major cost reduction involving many changes to hardware components in the PS3 design. In order to offer the OtherOS install, SCE would need to continue to maintain the OtherOS hypervisor drivers for any significant hardware changes - this costs SCE. One of our key objectives with the new model is to pass on cost savings to the consumer with a lower retail price. Unfortunately in this case the cost of OtherOS install did not fit with the wider objective to offer a lower cost PS3.

We'll see if we can get the offical OtherOS page updated with something to this effect so that an official explanation is provided. Thank you for your comments.

Sarah.

Writing in a compiled language is easier, faster, and usually has a better set of pre-written functionality, but never, ever claim that it's going to be more optimized. Even with pipelining updates from the compilers that help the look-ahead caches on the CPU, there's very few times that hand-coded assembler isn't going to be faster.

As CPU's become more complex, this is less and less true. For example, even on the PS2, they created a tool called VCL that preprocessed assembler for you for maximum usage of registers, unrolling, and pipelining. It generated better optimized code than 99% of of coders out there could do on their own and at a fraction of the effort to seriously fully optimize pipelined assembler -- not to mention the asm code was much more maintainable since with handrolled manually pipelined code you may have to re-optimize everything if you change a single register or just a few instructions. Also, things like the auto-unroll and auto-register-assignment a were huge time saver (it could unroll a loop NX and allocate NX registers to interleave SIMD operations to hide latencies).

That's not to say that a really great ASM programmer wouldn't do better than VCL, but he would have to work much much harder. You'd have to track all the registers yourself, remember the pipelining rules and latencies for every single instruction, be willing to experiment with unrolling every loop and counting cycles between unrolled (with prologs/epilogs) and normal versions, know all the possible instruction swaps, synchronize the integer and vector pipelines manually, try nearly all possible instruction orders, etc. Certainly an average assembler programmer wouldn't do as well.

If I remember, the PS2 was hard to program for too...

from http://playstation2-linux.com/

The Playstation 2 is notorious for being hard to program for due to the complexity of the hardware involved in the console. Thus, there are relatively few people in the gaming industry that know how to utilize the full potential of the system.

It never ceases to surprise me how many people don't know that about the PS2 or ignore it.

Well, if you really stretch your cranial capacity past it's single-digit-IQ capabilities, you'd search for "eyetoy driver linux" under google, and get this helpful page as the first result showing that it'll be available soon, in theory. My, that was hard, wasn't it?

Ask the PS2 Linux users:

http://playstation2-linux.com/forum/message.php?ms g_id=2835

A month continuous 24/7 isn't a problem at all.

Key word here: Format. You seem to imply that you can share the drive between them, but I've heard just the opposite.

And anyway, why can't I just grab any old hard drive and put it in there? Why does it have to be a specific one?

$99 is too much money for a FREE operating system

Homebrew is not going to kill certified, licensed games with official dev tools anytime soon.

The DVD limitation of the PS2 Linux kit was strictly hardware. You could put any game disk in the drive and read it like normal under Linux; however, you couldn't read normal disks. This was caused by the PS2's disk authenication, but with a simple modchip any disk would work without issue. People even released custom kernals for the PS2. You can see the community at www.playstation2-linux.com.

Sure it did. In fact you couldn't buy the Linux DVD seperately, you needed to buy the Kit with it included.

Even the USB was mangled so standard devices don't work.

Which leads me to question how usefull PS3 Linux will be...

If you want a Linux based PC, you can get them for under $100.

until now only studios that payed a high fee were able to program the consoles. The introduction of the Linux Development Kit for the PS2 (http://playstation2-linux.com/) was nice, but too restrictive for sharing your productions. Now everyone will have, at last, access to the hardware. And I'm sure people will not only develop games. Sony (and Nintendo) better counterattack to this, or they are going to loose quite a big chunk of market share.

Both the PS2 and PS3 as well as all the other consoles are computers by the classic definistion of the term, they have a processing unit, inputs and outputs and memory.

But if you're meaning computer as in "personal computer" both the PS2:

http://playstation2-linux.com/

[CronoCloud]$ uname -a
Linux 2.2.26-xr1 mips

and PS3 qualify.

Remember, the current Cell implementation is a PowerPC with eight (seven for bad chips) "Synergistic Processing Elements", which are relatively conventional CPUs tied to 256K of uncached memory but with hardware to support asynchronous scatter-gather copy to and from main memory. This is very different hardware from the PS2. It's not going to be an easy emulation.

Trying to get the NVidia part to emulate the PS2's VS1 and GS units will be a neat trick; the graphics power is there, but in a very different form. It's a reasonable porting job, but straightforward emulation at the binary level is tough.

There's kind of a "build it and they will come" attitude from some of the Cell people. They're not quite sure how to use all those little isolated processors effectively, but hope someone will figure it out.

We'll all know more after GDC in two weeks.

See my reply above (vcl v2) and look on the linux for PS2 website for VCL.

VCL takes sequential code and splits it up into parallel code based on the constraints of the vector-units (each VU is dual-issue, with some restrictions). It'll re-order code, insert wait states, etc. Certainly it's a good start at auto-parallelisation of the code. It's supposed to do as well as a skilled engineer...

Simon

Yeah, actually I appreciate the work they've done on linux for the ps2 - it's cool (even if it costs about $200 in Europe and is no longer available in the US). But sony is a split up company. PS2 techeads might not be the same people trying to stop you from using your computer transfer Sony camcorders, mp3 players + other peripheral devices so it doesn't get cracked in 6 months instead of 12. And that's optimistic - 4 years on Sony net-mindisc players + walkmen (old or new) still can't transfer mp3 files under linux.

Linux:
Their hardware is unlikely to ever support my os, because (perhaps because they're a giant popular corporation) they like to keep it all closed up.

Spoken truly! How could you ever fit Linux onto a PERSONAL COMPUTER?!! Zounds! Let alone on a console! The mere concept is laughable by its very nature!

Or... um... have you been trying to load Knoppix on your set-top DVD player?

He's got a good rep in the PS2 LInux community.
Really? Cool! I didn't know that.

The only direct experience I had with the PlayStation 2 Linux community was a bug report that I filed and was subsequently completely ignored. This bug was in a low-level memory allocation routine that I needed to work right for my matrix code and it was (as far as I could tell) corrupting the memory page tables on the machine.

CronoCloud: thanks for the ping-- drop me a note and introduce yourself.

The console homebrew scene is rather big, and Sony and Microsoft can do nothing about it.

The GNU/Linux kit for the PS2 included a USB keyboard and mouse. http://playstation2-linux.com/faq.php#What_is_in_t he_kit

I was rather optimistic that, considering Sony's previous engagement into reaching a geekdom fanbase, they would be a little more embracing and supportive of the PSP tinkering scene. Somehow I think Sony's going to start acting like babies and toss around the DMCA if this gets too fun, if you know what I mean.

I wouldn't be surprised if Sony has some kind of internal feuds of freedom-vs-DRM ideologies between its development team department and its department full of ponytailed marketing guys regarding this issue.

Well you might not want to run Linux on a PS2 because of the performance issues, (32MB of RAM). and finding a Linux kit for sale is difficult. You'll have to check ebay because the kit is out of stock permanently in NTSC territory.

But hooking up a keyboard is easy, USB and an Ethernet only Network adapter came with the kit.

and of course the official Playstation 2 Linux site: http://playstation2-linux.com/

Sony offered Linux on the PS2 partly as PR stunt, partly as a way to offer a cheaper dev system than their $100K dedicated HW. But they distributed it with only a proprietary "BIOS"/bootloader, which meant developers couldn't distribute bootable discs even if they blew off the license which said they weren't allowed to, not without Sony's approval. And they distributed their proprietary boot disc only bundled with their $200 ethernet/HD. Plus it only worked with a select few "sync on green" monitors. So the whole thing was mostly a really tiny niche hobby, rather than a new Linux architecture. Let's hope Linux on PS3 has a chance to play with the big dogs.

I live in the States, if that's what you mean by market. When I bought my kit, I found it off a link from http://playstation2-linux.com/ at the time... hmm, looks like it's sold out again. It cost $99 at the time I got it, and included an HD, keyboard, mouse, installation DVD, network adaptor, and VGA dongle.

I do have to qualify my statement though - I'm NOT saying there's a sizable PS2 linux homebrew movement, or that it'll pick up more steam over time or whatnot. For that matter, new slimline PS2's don't even have a hard drive bay.

But, the PS2 linux kit is serious in one light: it's a look 'under the hood' of a console machine (as opposed to the Xbox, which is functionally a PC). Hence, the reason I got more enjoyment out of the PDF hardware manuals than the actual OS instance on the machine. If you're hoping to get a job in the console game industry (which I hoped for prior to the irresistable sysadmin job I took), developing a game or demo which runs on the PS2 linux kit counts quite a bit more than developing something which runs on a regular PC. Particularly if you use assembler and emotion engine code, interface with the peripherals, etc, all of which the kit provided access to.

In short, while not worth taking seriously for most peoples' applications, it was very serious for a limited scope of them.

Instead, I'd like to suggest the limitations of console input devices limit the sorts of games that can be played on them, and THAT is the biggest single reason I see for gaming as it's meant to be, on a PC.

I could also mention the fact that a PC Game developer can ASSUME a high quality display, stereo sound and a couple of complex input devices.

I might also put forward that I strongly dislike the cultural influences of two of the three console makers. I've played Computer RPGs and adventure games since the mid-80s - the console versions of those things just aren't the same thing - as well as simulators and wargames (think Avalon Hill, not RTS). Those are types of games that simply do not exist on consoles. Console makers apparently think "fun" = 2D jumping puzzles, rehashing sports titles and "RPGs" that are as linear as a train track.

Still, it's easier to get ahold of a C compiler, 3D Studio or whatever the hell it is that spews forth Flash than it is to get a PS2 development kit.

All in all, the more PC Gaming looks like it was an afterthought (afterbirth?) of console gaming, the less I want to do with gaming generally.

It's not like the PS2 didn't have OpenGL:

http://ps2gl.playstation2-linux.com/

Although it was only good for rough porting - it was complete shit if you wanted anywhere near the optimal hardware performance. And there's only an API war if the same APIs are on a particular platform.

Now if DirectX popped up on PS3, we'd have a rumble.

Paragraph breaks, please.

Graphics my friend is not the be all and end all of gaming. Your new card will not buy you better gameplay, it just buys you better pictures.

I doubt the next generation of consoles will cost more than $300, trust me on that.

It is possible to do all kinds of things on a console with the right hardware or software like this:

http://playstation2-linux.com/

No, it won't

http://playstation2-linux.com/

The PS/2 Linux kit also came with an ethernet adaptor (photo of complete kit).

It remains to be seen whether the PS3 HDD kit will become popular. If it is optional, then many game developers will design their games assuming it isn't available. Only some features will make use of the optional HDD e.g for saved games or perhaps screenshots. It's all a feed-back loop though. If the HDD becomes popular for some reason, then game developers will be more inclined to make use of it, on the assumption that "most people have one anyway". But there has to be some reason for it to become popular in the first place. People aren't going to cough up $100-$200 for something they don't need or want. So we'll have to wait and see how Sony markets the PS/3 and HDD peripheral. It's possible that pressure from the Xbox 360 might make them change. But the original Xbox had a HD as well and doesn't seem to have influenced them. The excuse of "we'll never make it big enough for everyone" is pretty lame, IMNSHO.

As to cracking the PS/3 DRM, I doubt it. Sony controls almost every aspect of the hardware. Unlike the Xbox it won't simply be a modified PC, with a modified BIOS and hard drive (?). I haven't heard about anyone cracking the PS/2 yet, so I don't expect the PS/3 to be easily cracked either.

The PS/2 Linux kit also came with an ethernet adaptor (photo of complete kit).

It remains to be seen whether the PS3 HDD kit will become popular. If it is optional, then many game developers will design their games assuming it isn't available. Only some features will make use of the optional HDD e.g for saved games or perhaps screenshots. It's all a feed-back loop though. If the HDD becomes popular for some reason, then game developers will be more inclined to make use of it, on the assumption that "most people have one anyway". But there has to be some reason for it to become popular in the first place. People aren't going to cough up $100-$200 for something they don't need or want. So we'll have to wait and see how Sony markets the PS/3 and HDD peripheral. It's possible that pressure from the Xbox 360 might make them change. But the original Xbox had a HD as well and doesn't seem to have influenced them. The excuse of "we'll never make it big enough for everyone" is pretty lame, IMNSHO.

As to cracking the PS/3 DRM, I doubt it. Sony controls almost every aspect of the hardware. Unlike the Xbox it won't simply be a modified PC, with a modified BIOS and hard drive (?). I haven't heard about anyone cracking the PS/2 yet, so I don't expect the PS/3 to be easily cracked either.

The Linux Kit is still in demand, and no longer available. If you're not using it, consider putting it on ebay or similar. I know several people trying to get it.

In addition to the OS, HDD, KB, and mouse, you also get the developers guides for the EE, GS/GIF, VU/VIF, etc., which is almost worth the price of the kit, IMHO. And it's a pretty decent keyboard and mouse -- no "windows keys" on the KB...

And (as another poster mentioned), it will run on an NTSC or PAL TV, if you press the magic buttons during the bootup sequence. It will look quite crappy if you're using a composite video connector; SVGA or component video is remarkably more readable.

They don't have to put a computer OS on it at all, no. But it's not a dumb move to put on a popular one in the first place. It'd happen anyways.

The way I see it, Sony saves the average joe some time and effort. Sony gets more people interested in making games, or other apps, for their system which reduces costs in R&D. The Average Joe gets a new toy to play with, and rip apart (hopefully) legally. Sony gets money, We get toys and more fun, and everyone's happy.

You couldn't do that with Windows. Not unless every Xbox 360 comes with a copy of Visual Studio.

It's a smart business move.

Yeah, it's not as if Sony had already released a linux kit for the PS2 or anything...

Don't get me wrong - linux on PS3 is great news (if it's hackable) but this is evolution, not revolution.

Besides, what console will ever allow you to IM, pay your bills, debug code and download pr0n all at the same time?

Part of the reason the mod's exist is because of the lack of good games, and the late releases. Who needs mods when one can buy hordes of new games, more than one can possibly play. If Valve had a release schedule like console developers do, there would be no counter strike.

There's nothing stopping the consoles from doing mods, a few games have done it already. (The RPG Maker series and Timesplitters)

And as for Nethack:

http://playstation2-linux.com/download/cfyc/HOWTO_ compile_nethack.txt

All the current consoles are quite capable of running Nethack, although in the gamecubes case one would have to login remotely. It's probably easiest to get running on the Playstation 2, here's how:

http://playstation2-linux.com/download/cfyc/HOWTO_ compile_nethack.txt

Though with telnet installed you can play Nethack on one of the servers too, like nethack.alt.org

Like the PS2 does?

Sony using Linux!?, that's completely unheard of.

They are also doing the same thing with Sony Play station as well.

http://playstation2-linux.com/faq.php

None of this is going to hold up in a court of law and the Linux
people who are leading these projects are looking for some serious
trouble should Microsoft and Sony decide to pursue this matter.

Yep, Sony's bound to come down on the people behind the PS2-linux kit like a ton of bricks. And who are these linux-loving commie miscreants?

erm, looks like it's Sony themselves.

you silly, silly man.

The Linux community likes to hide behind the mantra of free and open
software for all and as such has the twisted mindset that all software
should be free for everyone. This should come as no surprise seeing
that the Linux community seems to take pride in stealing anything they
can get their hands on and breaking laws designed to protect IP at the
same time.

Linux users have been advocating downloading Microsoft True Type Fonts
for years mostly because their own fonts and font system in general
has been so horrific that Linux screen fonts in most stock installs
are almost unreadable. Of course they will claim that Linux fonts are
great but if that were really the case why is the internet clogged
with Linux Font DeUglification documents written by Linux users?

They even have documents that give a step by step procedure for
stealing the Microsoft fonts and installing them on Linux systems!
Notice in particular the instructions for the Tahoma font.

http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/mini/FDU/truetype.html
http://corefonts.sourceforge.net/

Next we have Linux users violating the EULA for the X-Box and
tinkering with it so that it can run Linux.
Why on earth any sane person would want to take a bitching game
machine like X-box and ruin it by installing Linux is a mystery to me.

http://xbox-linux.sourceforge.net/index.php

http://xbox-linux.sourceforge.net/faq.php

Pay particular attention to the question about it being illegal and
how they avoid answering the question.

They are also doing the same thing with Sony Play station as well.

http://playstation2-linux.com/faq.php

None of this is going to hold up in a court of law and the Linux
people who are leading these projects are looking for some serious
trouble should Microsoft and Sony decide to pursue this matter.

Finally we have the suit filed by SCO which claims that the Linux
community at large has incorporated stolen code into it's open source
programs.

http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,3959,936269,00.asp

This should come as no surprise to anyone who has followed the Linux
movement from the day Linux wrote the kernel.

The Linux community has proven themselves to be a fight to the end,
steal whatever can be stolen from big business because it is big
business that is killing Linux.

The Linux community has absolutely no respect for the property of
others and will resort to any type of clandestine tactics to steal
whatever isn't cemented down all in the good name of Linux.

So if you are thinking of betting your business on Linux software, you
had better think it over carefully, because if SCO should win, Linux
will be out of business.
And if SCO should lose, do you really think it is wise to bet your
entire business on software that is supported by a community that
promotes stealing and in fact is full of thieves?

Food for thought.

I'm curious; are you using the Sony PS2 Linux kit? I've been having trouble finding information on running Linux on a PS2 without it. I have the network adapter and a spare hard drive, and I'd love to set up a TV-comp for brother to use instead of my laptop. Yeah, I'm using the sony kit. Your best bet is to try to get a used set of discs, as sony has effectively limited the cd/dvd rom drive to only read "official" discs. Even if you mod the ps2 so you can read your own rolled discs I don't believe anybody has or was able to make a ps2 compatible bootstrapper. But once you install the official sony version, you can switch to other distros, and some people have set up minimal set-ups that boot from the mem card. So like I said try to get a pair of used official discs or burned official discs/mod your ps2(not that I would condone that) and that should work fine. Probably the best place to start is here. Go to the ps2 community link on left and get to the general message board, peeps post if they're selling there. Good luck, its a lot of fun to play with.

Last time I tried to check my email with my PS2 it took forever.

Like this?

Pretty sure you can't buy new kits thesedays, but ebay might help you out.

Don't hold your breath for a PC that has this processor in it. Besides, if you really want a MIPS box running Linux, get a Playstation2...