Slashdot Mirror

https://www.pugetsystems.com/l...
https://davidyat.es/2016/09/08...
https://ubuntuforums.org/showt...
https://www.reddit.com/r/VFIO/...
https://bufferoverflow.io/gpu-...
http://vfio.blogspot.com/2015/...
https://www.se7ensins.com/foru...

There is literally 100 guides to this, whoever told you you need more than a $100 GPU and a cpu that supports VFIO lied to you and you should never trust another word they say.

Heres all the links i have bookmarked. Im sure you can make it work. The performance is basically bare metal. you have to pull some fuckery with the conf file for nvidia cards or you get error 53 i believe, because theyre cocksuckers that want to milk everybody. but thats a different issue. i hope these work for you.

https://www.pugetsystems.com/l...
https://davidyat.es/2016/09/08...
https://ubuntuforums.org/showt...
https://lime-technology.com/fo...
https://www.reddit.com/r/VFIO/...
https://bufferoverflow.io/gpu-...
http://vfio.blogspot.com/2015/...
https://www.se7ensins.com/foru...
https://forums.lime-technology...
https://www.reddit.com/r/linux...
http://blog.quindorian.org/201...

LOL - nice try. Check out the plethora of articles I write on a regular basis, looking specifically at performance of different computer hardware in high-end applications:

https://www.pugetsystems.com/a...

(any written by William George are mine, in case that wasn't obvious from my /. username)

The big difference here, and something that most Quadro cards don't even have, is the high double-precision (FP64) performance. The original Titan had good performance there too, for its time, but later Titans were more like the GeForce cards: they had crippled FP64. Most Quadro cards do as well, though there have been some of the top-end models that had good FP64. Tesla cards are normally the ones that specialize in that, but those are far more expensive than the Titan V and they don't have video outputs. They also often require specialized cooling. Being able to bring massive FP64 performance to a desktop / workstation will be really good for some users!

The addition of Tensor Cores in Volta (and thus the Titan V) could also be nice... but not much uses that yet. It will likely be restricted to inference engines, but being able to test those quickly without additional hardware could be handy.

For more 'normal' applications, the Titan V also does really well with GPU based rendering. Maybe not well enough to justify the price, but if you need the most performance from just 1-2 cards (in a compact system, for example) it is a great performer. See the results in this article from V-Ray and Furryball:

https://www.pugetsystems.com/b...

Absolutely correct... water is the enemy of a computer.

Actually, if the poster wanted to do something "unusual," one can do an aquarium-themed cooling with mineral oil.

I wish I could say that'd make you "cooler," but only if you're surrounded by engineers. ;)

Air is an insulator, so placing computer parts in an air-mass inside a cooling vehicle (direct gas-expansion refrigerator) creates a built-in inefficiency that makes no good sense fiscally or energy wise.

In contrast oil conducts heat beautifully and a computer immersed in mineral oil offloads heat amazingly well. https://www.pugetsystems.com/s...

Secondly, not all parts of a computer generate heat, so putting the whole case in the air-cooled fridge is just an exercise in inefficiency.

Far better to do what the overclockers do, which is to take the heat-generating parts, [in some case de-lid them and put different thermal-conductive paste on them] and put a coolant directly on the components. You don't need super-custom components that can sit in a mineral-oil bath, have the liquid-cooled setup deskside where you game (or run power apps like booting Windows) and the cost is nonprohibitive.

But hey, if you want to stick a PC in a fridge, go right ahead. People do stupid things all the time. Just take a look at the current POTUS.

E

Be careful with your comparisons, today's TV's have more differences than just number of pixels... hence the whole "HDR" bandwagon these days, which is all about setting a standard for color space for TV's that is comparable between manufacturers. The real "Wow" factor is not resolution, it's color reproduction and speed.

The resolution of the human eye is measured in arc seconds, not pixels. Someone with 20/20 vision cannot differentiate 1080p from a higher resolution 50" T.V. when seated 6 feet away. That's the same as roughly 15" for a 24 inch 1080p monitor. So, unless you're sitting really close, or you just have a simply massive screen, those extra pixels are pretty useless.

Just dump the laptop into an aquarium full of mineral oil:

http://www.pugetsystems.com/submerged.php

Problem solved, heat dissipated.

Using the keyboard would be a little slippery but that may actually be a feature if you're a pr0n aficionado.

I didn't read that part of the article, but if the Mac version of Premiere Pro doesn't use dual GPUs then that is unfortunate. The PC version definitely can, though you only notice the difference when working with resolutions above 1080P:

http://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/Adobe-Premiere-Pro-CC-Professional-GPU-Acceleration-502/#4k(Custom)Results

Wait, what exactly are you accusing me of? I'm in no way affiliated with PGI or IGP - aside from being a MechWarrior player. I work for a computer company, but not one that makes or markets games:

http://www.pugetsystems.com/bios.php?name=williamgeorge

Now I *did* write a blog post on MWO, when it hit open beta, because I really like it. I liked it more at that time, since some of the sillier elements (3PV, coolant) had not been added yet - but even though they've done some things I don't like I still enjoy the game.

http://www.pugetsystems.com/blog/2012/10/03/our-favorite-games-mechwarrior-online/

Now again, what were you accusing me of? Was it just having different opinions than you? If so, I plead 'guilty' :)

Wait, what exactly are you accusing me of? I'm in no way affiliated with PGI or IGP - aside from being a MechWarrior player. I work for a computer company, but not one that makes or markets games:

http://www.pugetsystems.com/bios.php?name=williamgeorge

Now I *did* write a blog post on MWO, when it hit open beta, because I really like it. I liked it more at that time, since some of the sillier elements (3PV, coolant) had not been added yet - but even though they've done some things I don't like I still enjoy the game.

http://www.pugetsystems.com/blog/2012/10/03/our-favorite-games-mechwarrior-online/

Now again, what were you accusing me of? Was it just having different opinions than you? If so, I plead 'guilty' :)

Yes, you should clean it. Personally, I would just submerge it in mineral oil and never vacuum again

Ask Slashdot used to be so much more technical...this is getting ridiculous.

I don't generally like to flash credentials, but here it may be appropriate. I am the Customer Service Lead at one of the 'boutique' system builders - Puget Systems:

http://www.pugetsystems.com/

http://www.pugetsystems.com/bios.php?name=williamgeorge

I've written quite a bit for our website over my years here, including numerous technical articles and blog posts, keep up on the computer hardware industry daily, and have assisted thousands of people in selecting the right components to meet their needs. So yes, I 'work at a PC shop' :)

I don't generally like to flash credentials, but here it may be appropriate. I am the Customer Service Lead at one of the 'boutique' system builders - Puget Systems:

http://www.pugetsystems.com/

http://www.pugetsystems.com/bios.php?name=williamgeorge

I've written quite a bit for our website over my years here, including numerous technical articles and blog posts, keep up on the computer hardware industry daily, and have assisted thousands of people in selecting the right components to meet their needs. So yes, I 'work at a PC shop' :)

Interestingly, at one place where Windows 7 is still available it dominates the sales:

http://www.pugetsystems.com/blog/2012/12/05/comparing-windows-8-to-windows-7-sales/

Where I work - Puget Systems - we don't pull any of that crap :)

Shameless plug:

http://www.pugetsystems.com/aboutus.php

It has a few benefits, for certain types of work - like multi-monitor setups. It is also definitely better when used with a touch-screen. For most others, your are right - not a lot there to compel someone. Check out this blog post for a little more on the subject:

http://www.pugetsystems.com/blog/2012/10/12/is-windows-8-right-for-you/

No, sorry - William George of Seattle, WA

Nice! I recently found out about Puget when I was looking for an oil cooled PC kit. I've been drooling over that thing for months.

I suggest you check out Puget Systems http://www.pugetsystems.com/. Theie prices might be a bit high, but they make up for that with superior customer service and, their systems have lifetime tech support/service lifetime warranty. Theiy are a Windoze shop, but they do know (and are not afraid of) Linux. I purchased one of their high-end laptops a few months back, and have nothing but goot things to say about their product.

Mineral oil will destroy any rubber parts in the computer. Most computers contain at least a few capacitors with rubber seals.

In practice, this doesn't seem to be a problem.

Where did you pull that out from? Mineral oil density is 0.8gm/cc, water is 1gm/cc. Way more?? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mineral_oil Condensed water as a result indeed does sink to the bottom. An interesting account of a mineral oil cooled PC here - with updates over a period of 3 years! It also discussed the problem of condensed water sinking to the bottom. http://www.pugetsystems.com/submerged.php

Puget Systems Echo: http://www.pugetsystems.com/echo.php

There is an Atom / Ion version that may suffice for your needs (Echo I) and a more powerful Core i3 / i5 model if you need extra horsepower (Echo II). Both are very small, pretty darn quiet, and could run whatever software you'd like. I personally prefer the Windows 7 Media Center interface, but it sounds as though you aren't a big fan. Other nice options to check out are MythTV (Linux) and Boxxe (Windows or Linux).

If you want a quiet computer, check out what these guys are doing. Oil-submerged goodness.

The #1 on the top 500 supercomputer list is using water cooling as well (in combination with phase change cooling). Watercooling whole racks can be done. The only difference from TFA is that is also adds immersion cooling. Immersion cooling has been found to be superior in cooling but comes with (obvious) considerable maintenance problems. The video for this machine shows more or less standard water cooling blocks on the processors, along with various plumbing that to keeps the machine chilled.

the new product line that should be available next week.

I am fighting the urge to head down to Puget Systems in Auburn, WA and see if they really have the SSDSA2MH160G2 for sale for $490.55. My guess is it isn't quite ready to be sold yet and was merely indexed by Google.

Must. Control. Checkbook.

Brought to you by the RAID is (usually) a Terrible Idea guy http://www.pugetsystems.com/articles.php?id=29

The best idea I've heard for using Peltiers is in combination with mineral oil submersion, which handily takes care of both heat transfer and condensation. Power and efficiency issues remain.

You mean cool it with water, perhaps? Hmmm... It's been done, but it really increases the cost, and the risk of a leak is ever present.

Or you could do like these guys http://www.pugetsystems.com/submerged.php , and build a system completely submersed in mineral oil - baby oil for all the freaks in the house. You know who you are! ;)

It was thought that the mineral oil on these PCs would eat at the Rubber seals or the contacts on the motherboard and cause the PC to fail over time. This isn't true. Here's a link to the year-after report on a oil-based PC that Puget Systems built: http://www.pugetsystems.com/submerged.php#update3

The most important part:
"# There is no sign of weakening of rubber seals or PCB. We have found that prolonged exposure to mineral oil does not eat away at any components. However, you will notice in the pictures that the voltage module for the LED light has fallen down. That module was stuck in place with nothing more than a sticker -- it took 9 months for it to come down! We're amazed it stayed up that long, but definitely recommend you do not rely on stickers or tape to fasten anything. Zip ties will be more solid and long lasting."

I thought about this a little more and I think I should put this into perspective a little bit.

The first machine I submerged was done in a plastic tub and covered with 5 gallons of Tractor Oil (no, really) that I bought at the wal-mart for $20. It smelled, it was fairly viscous and it definitely leeched plasticizers and crawled up the interior of cables. I ended up with a small puddle of oil under my optical mouse. Wireless worked okay through it though. I tried submerging hard drives after covering the breather holes - I figured if I was keeping them in a fairly narrow temp range they shouldn't need to equalize. Unfortunately none were sealed sufficiently and all eventually died, though one did make it a month before it flooded.

The next machine was a recreation of the Puget Systems submerged machine. I went with light mineral oil from the local feed and tack store but was seriously considering silicon oil in it's place. Light mineral oil was going for about $17 a gallon, was less viscous than the first oil I used, didn't stink and hasn't effected the components as quickly. I can't find it now but I recall silicon oil being somewhere around $100 a gallon. If I had the money to spare I would have gone that route. Looking online the best price I can find for appropriate Fluorinert is around $1,000 a gallon.

So for 5 gallons of submerged cooling you're looking at $20-$5,000. When you consider the effect it'll have on components, it's probably worth it to use the $500 fill of silicon oil over the $100 fill of mineral oil.

From my experience with submersion cooling in mineral oil, if your connectors are submerged they will wick oil up the interior through capillary action. If you build a system similar to that made by Puget Systems it probably won't be a problem, provided you leave some head space at the top of the case. When I built a system similar to theirs I made a short socket extension for the power cord so it didn't have to go under the fluid. everything else was able to stay above the surface of the oil.

If you submerge your video cards and intend to use the fans as impellers, make sure they can start turning against the resistance of the fluid. All my fans worked when submerged except the video cards.

A company local to me, Puget Systems, has a PC that is cooled by mineral oil.

Nonconductive, cheap and easy to set up.

I see that they offer to install Linux for you.

No idea if they remove the price of Microsoft Windows from the total but it is a start I guess.

With no brick and mortar address, and this: antiquities@websitecompany.co.uk as their contact address, the Honourable Company site does look quite suspicious. Not to mention selling thousand year old museum pieces for the price of department store "costume" jewelry.

Also, when THIS gives you only 8 results, only 1 of them relevant, you KNOW something is up. Nobody has anything to say about these people at all?

With results like that I'm sure you could build a page and get it ranked so that they would loose a ton of business. No matter though I'm sure they're chameleons and would just change the name and site.

A Good Company often has a page dealing with secure shopping.

you could go here and save about 7000 bucks ;) Puget Systems

Ranger -

Thanks for the referrals! This slashdot link brought in enough traffic to grab our attention, and I found the whole story very interesting. I found it particularly interesting that we have our own "campaign against fraud" going on here! We have a good number of internet sites posing as companies and copying our website content, even our testimonials, to look credible!

Give it a look here.

Jon Bach
Puget Custom Computers
http://www.pugetsystems.com

A little background: About a year and half ago I found myself needing/wanting a monster PC, P4 2.8, 5 WD drives, 4 in a raid 10 array for photography, music, video, etc. Gotta protect all those thousands of pictures. For fun I also wanted a gaming config as well, Radeon 9700 Pro, DDR 400, etc. Long story short, I wanted a top of the line Voodoo PC or Alienware, or Hypersonic, custom built for me, not built by me. But in NO WAY did I want the silly paint job or the price that came with it.

I also do enough hardware fiddling at work that I just didn't want to deal with it at home (busy + lazy). I wanted Uber Box to show up at my door. Go ahead poke fun, I wanted it, I could get it, so I got it.

Back then his site was much less over-the-top, he had a 7 year warranty, etc. I dealt with Michael over the phone and we came to a price which was quite agreeable for the parts and labor. I knew the pricegrabber price for every part in there, MB, sticks of memory, etc. The spec sheet he sent was right on.

The PC is great, nice build, no widgets, no crapware, XP Pro with all MS-Phone-Home-ware removed or disabled, all those services in XP that most of us know to turn off, he had them off, etc, etc. When I had trouble with the Firewire ports, he walked me through the pin-outs on the Audigy 2, when that didn't work due to meager support from Creative, he overnighted me a firewire card. He has been outstanding as far as customer service is concerned, I'm quite happy with the "uber-box", yes it's over the top, but i like it that way and in a few years I won't be aching for a complete replacement.

I always ignored his marketing. He's a VERY exhuberant fellow in person, and it shows! HA. He's a one-man-show. He knows how to build a nice PC, and is willing to do it, where I am not. I disapprove of the direction his marketing has taken (who wouldn't). Because of it, I've taken to sending folks here and elsewhere who want a PC built for them.

It's sad because if you remove the marketing aspect, and of course haggle on price, he DOES do just as good a job as the Alienware / Voodoo PC folks. Actually better because I hate that tricked out case stuff, and I have yet to hear of Alienware calling or emailing you back in 5 minutes with a fix or a tracking number to a free replacement part you haven't asked for yet.

Just goes to show that running a [Widget] business takes a lot more than being a [Widget] expert. You've got to have your marketing, order processing, legal angles, etc., all figured out as well.

Maybe this "expose" will help him improve. I wish him luck. He's a real nice guy.