Tom's Hardware Investigates Michael's Computers

Not much funnier by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-17 04:05 · Score: 0, Offtopic

...not much at all.

Re:Not much funnier by GNUman · 2004-03-17 04:14 · Score: 1

Of course not, I mean, not if you're Michael J. Gonzalez...

Not in doubt, but.... by Space+cowboy · 2004-03-17 04:05 · Score: 4, Funny

it surprised me that after all the work they went through, the conclusion is simply "make your own mind up". Now *that*'s being cautious!

Or maybe I'm just a cynic by nature....

Simon

--
Physicists get Hadrons!

Re:Not in doubt, but.... by _Sharp'r_ · 2004-03-17 04:16 · Score: 5, Insightful

Usually the weaker the evidence, the more someone tries to insist they ar right.

If they actually have and present the evidence, there is no need to spell it out for you.

--
The party of stupid and the party of evil get together and do something both stupid and evil, then call it bipartisan.
Re:Not in doubt, but.... by Orgazmus · 2004-03-17 04:20 · Score: 4, Funny

And the coolness factor is of course way higher when you say it like that.
"And like everyone can see without us even telling you, the dudes are lame"

--
The system had the verbosity of HTML combined with all the readability of compiled assembly viewed as bitmap images
Re:Not in doubt, but.... by fm6 · 2004-03-17 04:27 · Score: 1

Now *that*'s being cautious!
Or ironic.
Re:Not in doubt, but.... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-17 04:28 · Score: 0

I don't see you accusing Michael J. Gonzales of anything. You post carefully avoids saying what you think "all the work" shows, so I think you understand the problem here.
I'm sure it's just my cynical nature. . .
Re:Not in doubt, but.... by aixou · 2004-03-17 04:31 · Score: 3, Funny

I half-way expected Michael to go Vice-City on the interviewers ass part way through the interview..... dot dot dot
Re:Not in doubt, but.... by IndigoDarkwolf · 2004-03-17 04:48 · Score: 2, Insightful

Well I'm not surprised... after all, if HardOCP can be threatened by a company marketing vaporware for posting clearly stated opinions, then THW probably figures it's better to just not tempt fate.
After all, the cost of a lawyer could really bite into their pool of money for when FX-51 3400+ really does come out.
Re:Not in doubt, but.... by Jeff+DeMaagd · 2004-03-17 04:49 · Score: 4, Interesting

I wonder if it is because of the Hard OCP / "Phantom Console" issue.

I'm not convinced that Infinium Labs has any leg to stand on on that one though, I'm not convinced there is any libel, but they can still try to sue and harass. The Tom's writer is possibly just being CYA about it.
Re:Not in doubt, but.... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-17 05:08 · Score: 2, Funny

there are more companies doing that
Re:Not in doubt, but.... by smittyoneeach · 2004-03-17 05:22 · Score: 4, Funny

I've heard it is said among lawyers:
If you've got the facts on your side, argue the facts,
if you've got the law on your side, argue the law,
and if you've neither, pound the table.
Into which category to put Michael, or SCO, is unclear.

--
Get thee glass eyes, and, like a scurvy politician, seem to see things thou dost not.--King Lear
Re:Not in doubt, but.... by IndigoDarkwolf · 2004-03-17 05:26 · Score: 1

Geez you guys /.'ed them quick... couldn't hardly finish the article!
But they didn't say "make your own mind up". They said "We'll let the facts speak for themselves." Isn't the conclusion obvious? Would any reasonably intelligent person buy from this guy?
Of course, unless they can post proof of a specific crime (ie fraud) they can't really call the guy a liar yet... that would be libel.
Re:Not in doubt, but.... by Hiro+Antagonist · 2004-03-17 05:30 · Score: 4, Interesting

Indeed; those who lack evidence try and make up for it with panache. This is why none of the creationists, or the UFO-chasers, or the television psychics have ever managed to win the million-dollar challenge posted by the James Randi Educational Foundation. And before anyone screams 'conspiracy', remember that all one needs to do to win the prize, which is held in an escrow account, is present evidence of any paranormal phenomena which completely at odds with modern science. The procedures for doing so must be agreed upon by both parties, and the applicant is the one who designs the tests used to verify his-or-her claim, in order to prevent any steamrolling. All in all, a very fair prize. One which has been unclaimed for fourty years (IIRC).
Maybe Michael's Computers should try to claim the prize, what with the supernatural performance of their systems. ;)
As far as Michael's Hardware, just remember, if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is, and at the very least, you should check first.

--

--
I Hit the Karma Cap, and All I Got Was This Lousy .sig.
Re:Not in doubt, but.... by btwIANAL · 2004-03-17 06:18 · Score: 5, Funny

On the other hand Michael can now add... "Featured on Tom's Hardware" ... to his credentials

--
And then they armed me with moderator points and the world mourned.
Re:Not in doubt, but.... by muckdog · 2004-03-17 06:19 · Score: 0

funnier if you s/argue/pound on/
Re:Not in doubt, but.... by Hiro+Antagonist · 2004-03-17 06:34 · Score: 3, Informative

*sigh*

But you have seen new breeds of dogs, and new strains of the flu virus, and new antibiotic-resistant bacteria, right? The exact same principles apply to us -- only many humans are way too arrogant to acknowledge that, yes, we are subject to the same forces of any other animal. Natural selection is still alive and well, thank you, and along with its friends 'Variation' and 'Mutation', evolution is still chugging along.

The underlaying rules behind evolution are testible, and have been proven as well as any scientific fact can be (see the Problem of Induction in any philosophy textbook), which is why evolutionary modeling techniques are used in any field that requires predictions about complex molecules. This includes chemical engineering, medical research, and even computer software design.

Go read talkorigins.org; it explains a lot, and it answers a lot of common misconceptions about evolution. Also note that evolution says nothing about religion, and many religious people believe that God put the rules in place to let us evolve -- which is a much more reasonable concept than assuming that what happened in the Bible literally occurred, and that God just put all these fossils and all of that radioactive material around 'just to confuse the unworthy'.

Creationism is supernatural -- it completely contradicts pretty much every piece of scientific knowledge in almost every field, from anthrpology to quantum mechanics. Thus, proving creationism *would* earn one the million dollars -- and, yes, people have tried to do it, and failed.

--

--
I Hit the Karma Cap, and All I Got Was This Lousy .sig.
Re:Not in doubt, but.... by idontgno · 2004-03-17 06:35 · Score: 3, Funny

Dammit, I've got mod points but I can't decide whether to mod +1 funny or +1 insightful.
After all, it's funny because it's true. Bet on it.
Oh, well.

--
Welcome to the Panopticon. Used to be a prison, now it's your home.
Re:Not in doubt, but.... by FatherOfONe · 2004-03-17 06:59 · Score: 0, Offtopic

Fire beatle?

Ape/people? I would imagine that we would find some race of people that didn't evolve as fast as the rest... and no you can't count your harry uncle Bill...

I am not saying evolution is wrong, but to say that it IS absolutely correct would also be inaccturate, you can show that some things have evolved, and that humans have evolved to a point, but we cannot say with absolute certainty that humans evolved from apes.

Also, as far as winning the 1 million; it has be repeatable. Man that one would have been tough even for the people who saw Christ after his death. Just because someone can't reproduce something time and time again doesn't make it wrong. Granted that isn't the point of the contest, but it is the spirit of the contest...

Now back to the topic.

The guy posted processors and hard drives that DON'T EXIST. He only takes pay-pal. Hmmmm you would have to have some real FAITH to buy from him :-)

--
The more I learn about science, the more my faith in God increases.
Re:Not in doubt, but.... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-17 07:09 · Score: 0

Is the parent poster completely wrong? Is he in fact a total liar? Does he club baby seals for fun? I think you have enough evidence to make up your own mind.
Re:Not in doubt, but.... by jasonisgodzilla · 2004-03-17 07:24 · Score: 2, Interesting

We live in an information age. You would think if evolution were still in full swing, that smarter people would proliferate. I am surrounded by an ever increasing horde of idiots. If we were animals, the stupid offspring would be culled and the higher rates of reproduction among these lower order members would be cancelled out by their propensity towards dying earlier. The human species as a whole has apparently decided that everyone, no matter how stupid or disease ridden, needs to be kept alive and allowed to not only survive but to reproduce. It seems that we as a species are devolving.
Re:Not in doubt, but.... by Opie812 · 2004-03-17 07:32 · Score: 1, Funny

I haven't seen a chimp turn into a human, but I once saw a pig turn into a human. Turns out, it was just beer goggles.

--
I'm not a nerd. Nerds are smart.
Re:Not in doubt, but.... by admiralh · 2004-03-17 07:36 · Score: 1

Read the short story "The Marching Morons" by Cyril Kornbluth for a science-fiction treatment of that very problem.

The problem is, the smart people know when to stop having more kids and how to prevent it.

--
Hopelessly pedantic since 1963.
Re:Not in doubt, but.... by RevAaron · 2004-03-17 07:48 · Score: 0

Silly child. I certainly don't know anyone- whether they believe in the religious tale of creationism or side with the view supported by scientific fact- that thinks a chimp ever turned into a human, nor that humans are derived from chimps.

It's little wonder that creationism silliness is so rapant- they have no idea what evolution is about.

--

Working toward a usable PDA environment in the spirit of Newton OS: Dynapad
Re:Not in doubt, but.... by RevAaron · 2004-03-17 07:51 · Score: 3, Insightful

Intelligent and wealthy people tend to have a lot fewer kids than stupid or poor folks. It may be somehow counter to your intuition, but those are the stats, ma'am. Makes sense to me, though.

Evolution never stops being in full swing. We are always evolving, although we are selecting for different traits than we used to. "devolving" is a misonomer, although a nice sounding one... We may be getting dumber as a group, but it's still evolution!

--

Working toward a usable PDA environment in the spirit of Newton OS: Dynapad
Re:Not in doubt, but.... by the+gnat · 2004-03-17 07:57 · Score: 1, Offtopic

but we cannot say with absolute certainty that humans evolved from apes.

Two points:

- All of the available evidence supports this model. The fact that we can't conclusively prove the hypothesis does not make it any less compelling. Furthermore, no null hypothesis which fits the data well or better has been presented, much less proven.

- Careful with your terminology here; what you really meant to say was ". . . that humans and apes evolved from a common ancestor." We do not expect chimps to evolve into humans; these species are diverged from a more primitive ape. One branch became fully bipedal and sentient, the other did not.
Re:Not in doubt, but.... by Hiro+Antagonist · 2004-03-17 07:58 · Score: 4, Insightful

Fire beatle?

One of them set themselves on fire? I mean, I know about John Lennon getting shot and all (why the FSCK couldn't they have taken out Yoko too?) Which one? Did he survive?

Oh, fire beetle. My mistake. ;) You could easily just have said 'human eye' or pointed to any other complex system or organism; the rules still apply, and you still see evidence that points to evolution. In the case of the fire beetle, all the tools required for it to produce a hot chemical spray can be found in other organisms: acid-resistant stomach linings, methane production, chambered toxin release, etc. The fire beetle is simply a novel combination of these things. One which had four billion or so years to work out the bugs; given the lifespan of these critters, that's about an equal number of generations.

I am not saying evolution is wrong, but to say that it IS absolutely correct would also be inaccturate, you can show that some things have evolved, and that humans have evolved to a point, but we cannot say with absolute certainty that humans evolved from apes.

We didn't; we evolved from earlier forms of humans, who in turn evolved from even more primitive forms, who in turn came from ape-like mammals that served as a common ancestor, and this is very-well proven, through a combination of genetic testing and osteological analysis.

Lucy is a good example; we know that she was around about three million years ago, and that other than her bipedal adaptations, she was very similar to modern apes -- small brain, curved tarsal bones, and so on. Continuing on through the austrolopithecines, you see two branches (gracile and robust); the gracile branch became homo erectus, which eventually led to modern man, and the robust branch eventually evolved into the neanderthals, which died out a few hundred thousand years ago.

It's a pretty clean, unbroken record, really, and there are even a few species along the line that have died out (like the Neanderthals) -- evolutionary dead-ends. The only reason we're around is because we were better suited to survive. And, yes, I'm oversimplifying all of this for the sake of being compact. *grin*

The guy posted processors and hard drives that DON'T EXIST. He only takes pay-pal. Hmmmm you would have to have some real FAITH to buy from him :-)

Or just be really gullible. ;)

--

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I Hit the Karma Cap, and All I Got Was This Lousy .sig.
Re:Not in doubt, but.... by Hiro+Antagonist · 2004-03-17 08:01 · Score: 1

Indeed; our culture provides selective pressure which favors the, for lack of a better term, unwashed masses. Wealthy, well-educated people spend lots of time becoming both, and thus don't raise as many kids, whereas low-income families are typically quite large.

Devolving is certainly a misnomer, but it makes me kind of sad to know that the human race is probably destined for a very long, slow, painful decline.

--

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I Hit the Karma Cap, and All I Got Was This Lousy .sig.
Re:Not in doubt, but.... by srmalloy · 2004-03-17 08:24 · Score: 0, Redundant

On the other hand Michael can now add... "Featured on Tom's Hardware" ... to his credentials
Or "Misfeatured on Tom's Hardware", judging from the tone of the article...
Re:Not in doubt, but.... by jcr · 2004-03-17 08:38 · Score: 1, Funny

If creationism is eligible for the award as "supernatural", then so too would Darwinism.

Oh, for Christ's sake...

And the lesson is, pay attention to local elections, everyone. If you don't, people like this get elected to local school boards and the next thing you know, your community is a laughing stock until your next chance to vote them out.

-jcr

--
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
Re:Not in doubt, but.... by jcr · 2004-03-17 08:40 · Score: 1

Just because someone can't reproduce something time and time again doesn't make it wrong.

It makes it unproveable, which is what the JREF award is about.

-jcr

--
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
Re:Not in doubt, but.... by jcr · 2004-03-17 08:43 · Score: 2, Interesting

Intelligent and wealthy people tend to have a lot fewer kids than stupid or poor folks.

That's a fairly recent development, actually. In centuries past, it was the wealthy (ie, those who could feed a large group) who had the most children survive to adulthood.

Even today, the richer you are, the better your kid's chances of living to have kids of their own.

-jcr

--
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
Re:Not in doubt, but.... by UniverseIsADoughnut · 2004-03-17 08:45 · Score: 2, Insightful

Yep, I haven't seen a chimp turn into a human lately either. Infact no one has ever seen this. Infact no person who understands evolution has ever said this would happen either. I don't know what belief system you are thinking of where animals change into other types of animals. Closest I know of is female frogs becoming male frogs.

But then, the offspring of one animal being differant then it's parents is pretty common. Come to think of it I have never seen the offspring of one animal being identical to it's parents. I don't think anyone has ever seen to parents produce a animal identical in all ways to it down to the DNA. But childern being differant is real common, sometimes more differant thing simple looks, sometime they have differant colored parts, sometimes they have less then the normal ten fingers, sometimes more (i know a decent number of people born with 6 fingers per hand or 6 toes per foot), maybe they have the wrong number of teeth, I only was born with 22 permenant teeth. Some people i know are missing parts like spleens from birth. I'm sure thats just normal, I mean if every generation of offspring in something was just slightly differant for a few million years, i'm sure the end generation would be exactly the same as the first generation.

You need to get over it and accept evolution as a fact, it typicaly takes millions of years, but for simplier things it happens very fast, bacteria and virus's evolve all the time, year to year. Other things like fruitflies have become whole new species in short observable time spans.

It's impossible for things not to evolve, since to members of a species cannot reproduce and have an exact copy of them both in one animal, it will be differant. Only cloning can do this, and that involves only one parent, thus doesn't happen in nature. Evolution just means change, every generation is differant from the previous, in time the differances will show up. Just look at human over the last few hundred years, look at things like height, or general looks. If you took a sample of humans today, and a sample of humans from 1000 years ago and stripped them naked to remove all evidance giving away their timeframe it would be obvious who came from which time. Expand this over millions of years and out ape ancestors gradualy started to look like us.

Evolution does not mean becoming "better" it might just cause you to like sex more thus create more young. Or maybe you give birth to more offspring and thus their is more of your species then another "superior" one and they can't compete and die out. Evolution in many aspects has been haulted in the modern world. Today if you are born with 6 fingers, society shuns that and wants to see them removed. Also they probably don't help you much. But millions of years ago in a tree, it may have made you a better climber or food gatherer. That made you stronger and the chicks digged it, they matted with you, and some of your kids had six fingers, and they had an advantage, over time their were more 6 finger people because they were more sucessful. Today such things don't happen, if you are not a classic human people shun you. being born with 6 asses is not likely to help you or give you any chance at matting.

You also don't see much change in higher order land animal because we have become so much stronger and supress them. We kill them off to. As other animals have got smarter and adapted to our life we kill them off since we find them anoying, like bears living in cities living a new life from they did in the woods. Or we start seeing a change, say frogs with more legs, we set out to cure them, we asume its because of something we did. But there is a chance they are just evolving.

If darwinism was classified as supernatural then the award would have been claimed long ago, not much of a prize there then. If you didn't get the idea of it, the point is the things eligible will never win. Some of them do have a long shot chance, but arn't very likely. But things that we allready know to be true would be pretty dumb to make eligible.
Re:Not in doubt, but.... by bigjocker · 2004-03-17 09:14 · Score: 1

Great, great, great comment. The grandparent most likely was a troll, but it's always great to see comments like this. Hope to see more of them around.

--
Life isn't like a box of chocolates. It's more like a jar of jalapenos. What you do today, might burn your ass tomorrow.
Re:Not in doubt, but.... by TwinkieStix · 2004-03-17 09:44 · Score: 0, Offtopic

And now that you've posted, you can't use them at all.
Re:Not in doubt, but.... by drsmithy · 2004-03-17 09:53 · Score: 1

I am surrounded by an ever increasing horde of idiots.
That might be what it feels like, but the facts say otherwise. On average, people are getting smarter. Heck, it wasn't that long ago reading and writing were considered special skills (many - particularly casual readers of /. - would argue they still are ;).
I suspect you'll find it's much like the rich getting richer - the smart end of the bell curve is getting smarter much quicker than the rest of it. After all, how many smart people do you know who associate and reproduce with dumb people ?
Re:Not in doubt, but.... by drsmithy · 2004-03-17 09:57 · Score: 1

That's a fairly recent development, actually. In centuries past, it was the wealthy (ie, those who could feed a large group) who had the most children survive to adulthood.
At which stage in history have the rich and/or intelligent ever outnumbered the poor and/or dumb ?
Even today, the richer you are, the better your kid's chances of living to have kids of their own.
Yeah, but the poorer end of society approaches this in typical subject-to-high-infant-mortality fashion and just has two to five times as many offspring. Sure, more of them might die, but there's lots more of them to start with.
Re:Not in doubt, but.... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-17 10:05 · Score: 0

We live in an information age. You would think if evolution were still in full swing, that smarter people would proliferate. I am surrounded by an ever increasing horde of idiots. If we were animals, the stupid offspring would be culled and the higher rates of reproduction among these lower order members would be cancelled out by their propensity towards dying earlier. The human species as a whole has apparently decided that everyone, no matter how stupid or disease ridden, needs to be kept alive and allowed to not only survive but to reproduce. It seems that we as a species are devolving.

The "information age" has been around for 2, maybe 3 generations. Not very long, on an evolutionary timescale.
Re:Not in doubt, but.... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-17 10:05 · Score: 0

"We didn't; we evolved from earlier forms of humans, who in turn evolved from even more primitive forms, who in turn came from ape-like mammals that served as a common ancestor, and this is very-well proven, through a combination of genetic testing and osteological analysis."

Yep, small steps. Or put it another way: the Wright Brothers made the first aeroplane flight (or not if you believe it was Frenchman Clement Ader - link http://www.americanscientist.org/template/AssetDet ail/assetid/28339)

Anyway their first aeroplane was very rickety and unstable. To say aeroplanes evolved from that to today's modern jumbo jets in one step is ridiculous. But if you consider small changes in each step, each year, over the last hundred years, then evolution is highly possible.

The only difference with pre-man to modern man is that this change has happened over a long period of time.
Re:Not in doubt, but.... by Hiro+Antagonist · 2004-03-17 10:31 · Score: 1

First off, I'm majoring in anthropology, and just got done with a Human Osteology lab, in which we got to piece together bits and pieces of the evolutionary record through bone morphology.

Second, yes, the record for our species is pretty unbroken. We've got a lot of intermediate forms, stemming from bipedalism, to increased brain size, all the way up to cultural adaptation and primitive medicine. It would be hard to paint a better picture without having a videotape of the entire process.

--

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I Hit the Karma Cap, and All I Got Was This Lousy .sig.
Re:Not in doubt, but.... by Jim+the+Bad · 2004-03-17 10:32 · Score: 1

+1 Insightful? Talk about moderators on crack. Here's a clue (warning - may contain sarcasm):

If you saw a chimp change into a human, that wouldn't be an example of Darwinism. It would be a werechimp.

--
-- And when Justice is gone, there is always... Force. --Laurie Anderson, "Oh Superman"
Re:Not in doubt, but.... by Hiro+Antagonist · 2004-03-17 10:36 · Score: 1

...and we'd call him Mr. President.

--

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I Hit the Karma Cap, and All I Got Was This Lousy .sig.
Re:Not in doubt, but.... by Jim+the+Bad · 2004-03-17 10:37 · Score: 2, Funny

Man that one would have been tough even for the people who saw Christ after his death

You are aware of the number of people who have seen Elvis after his death, right?

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-- And when Justice is gone, there is always... Force. --Laurie Anderson, "Oh Superman"
Re:Not in doubt, but.... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-17 10:46 · Score: 0

neanderthals, which died out a few hundred thousand years ago.

Actually, there is evidence that some Neanderthals were still living up until about 30,000 years ago.
Re:Not in doubt, but.... by SloppyElvis · 2004-03-17 11:10 · Score: 1

The underlaying rules behind evolution are testible, and have been proven as well as any scientific fact can be (see the Problem of Induction in any philosophy textbook), which is why evolutionary modeling techniques are used in any field that requires predictions about complex molecules. This includes chemical engineering, medical research, and even computer software design.

Interesting examples. All fields of human creation.

Not to split heirs, but the Theory of Evolution is in fact a theory, not a fact (by the scientific definition of the words). Of course, there really aren't scientific facts, just laws, and any good Slashdot reader knows full well even laws are subject to interpretation by those who wouldn't use IANAL.

Anyway, you've laid down some good arguments/information, but this thread is missing the bones of contention against evolution: that large gaps in the evolutionary record fail to prove macro-evolution into law-dom, despite demonstrable micro-evolutionary experiments. Given that lost records may forever be lost, a fair part of evolutionary dogma amounts to speculation, and shouldn't automatically be lumped into tested and demonstrated evolutionary events as "part of the facts".

I likely fall into that group of consensus believers you mention, because I tend to accept macro-evolution as a better explanation of our world than divine creation, though I simply cannot ignore the "Argument by Design" (also in any philosophy textbook). My personal belief is that the story of creation was actually the first draft of "The Evolution of Man", albeit recorded before the Beagle was constructed and at a time when unanswerable questions were frequently punted to God (not unlike today, really).

If there aren't natural rules, then the scientific method is bogus, because tomorrow the universe could change into something entirely not like it is today. If there are such rules, how could they arise from randomness? Can something ordered arise from something random? That's my thinking anyway...
Re:Not in doubt, but.... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-17 11:39 · Score: 0

It's called irony. Since he made such a fool proof case which perfectly demonstrated, beyond doubt by any literate person, that the company is a fraud by simply leaving it "for you to decide" he is creating an incongruity with the rest of his biased case.
In other words, it's so obvious that when he leaves it for you to decide he's obviously trying to be humourus.
Re:Not in doubt, but.... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-17 11:51 · Score: 1, Funny

There exists evidence that Neanderthals are still around today: televangelists, young-earth creationists, the President...
Re:Not in doubt, but.... by antic · 2004-03-17 11:52 · Score: 1

I was jailed last time I split an heir...

--
'Thats they exact same thing a banana wrench monkey.'
Re:Not in doubt, but.... by Cypherus · 2004-03-17 12:04 · Score: 1

To see his previous websites with astonishing specs! go here
http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.michaelsco mputers.com

--
Open Source. It's the difference between trust and antitrust.
Re:Not in doubt, but.... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-17 12:08 · Score: 0

Ooo, ooo, I just did my third day at McDonalds, I'm a chef now.
Re:Not in doubt, but.... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-17 12:13 · Score: 0

How on earth do you identify "stupid" people in order to make that statement in any way scientific? I hope sincerely that your definition of poverty isn't in any way related to stupidity!
Re:Not in doubt, but.... by idontgno · 2004-03-17 12:15 · Score: 0, Offtopic

Thanks, Obvious Obviousington. As I pointed out, I couldn't decide between the two alternatives, so I chose "(c) none of the above" (aka the "Cowboyneal poll option").
Maybe we'll get lucky and someone will mod both of us "-1 Overrated" or "-1 Offtopic". Unless they can't decide between, in case they may post a moderately amusing reply about their dilemma. In which case, you can helpfully point out that they can no longer moderate this thread. ad infinitum.

--
Welcome to the Panopticon. Used to be a prison, now it's your home.
Re:Not in doubt, but.... by schon · 2004-03-17 12:22 · Score: 0, Troll

James Randi Educational Foundation

James Randi is a 'science' lunatic - he is as bad (if not worse) than the people he attempts to discredit. When presented with a situation that science cannot explain, he steadfastly refuses to believe that there is no scientific explanation, and will create wild fantasies of his own to 'explain' that which has no explanation. He's the equivalent of the people who phone and believe in the psychic hotline.

I saw a TV show on a person in the UK who claims to be a 'water diviner' - he is employed by a drilling company, who has a 100% guarantee on their services. This man (a former geophysicist) claims that he has the ability to find underground sources of water - he boasts an 80% accuracy rate, and in most cases will tell you how far down to drill, as well as the amount of water (in cubic feet per minute) the well will produce.

The TV program decided to test him (albeit in a non-scientific way) - they found a golf course that wanted wells dug, and they hired this company to dig them. The guy walked around on the course for awhile, and pointed out two places to dig. He was correct in both cases.

The program producers then contacted Mr. Randi to get his opinion. After watching the tape, he goes off on how this man is obviously a fraud, and that because he's a geophysicist, he's obviously using his knowledge of geology to find the water!

I know a few geophysicist, and they tell me - without question - that there is no way they can tell where underground streams are simply by walking out onto a field.

I lost all respect for Mr. Randi after seeing that program.
Re:Not in doubt, but.... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-17 12:37 · Score: 0

Anybody checked the status of this site ... http://www.michaelscomputers.com/ ... lately ??

Somethings a miss ...
Re:Not in doubt, but.... by UserGoogol · 2004-03-17 12:52 · Score: 1

Genetically, maybe. But who cares about our stupid genes? Evolution isn't good or bad, it's merely what has worked so far. And anyway, ideas (memes) are what really counts, aren't they? They can evolve far faster than genes could ever have dreamt of, and "intelligence" can allow them to mold themselves towards good solutions instead of the woefully crude methods of mutation found in genetic evolution.

Plus, the phenotypes of ideas are capable of manipulating genes. (Genetic engineering.) So it's no big deal, really.

So yes, the forces of genetic evolution in Humans have slowed a bit. But memetic evolution is something infinitally cooler.

--
"Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity." -- Hanlon's Razor
Re:Not in doubt, but.... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-17 12:56 · Score: 0

I'm sorry, but anyone here who believes that they came from an ape....come on now. Is life really that meaningless when we have to resort to pointing to apes and saying "that's where we came from". Maybe you but certainly not me. I came from a creator God with infinite wisdom, infinite knowledge, and an infinite understanding of everything possible. To say I came from a pool of goo "millions of years ago" is just ludicrous. And for those of you gurus who really believe that stuff, why does the number of years it took us to "evolve" keep getting longer (5 million, wait no, 10 million....no, that can't be right, 14 million, damm, maybe not....25 million years)...Sigh. Scientists will keep upping that number, because they are continually finding out newer things about the human body that can't possibly be "evolved" even in their stupid Big Bang timeframe. And that timeframe will only continue to grow as time goes on and people find out more.
Re:Not in doubt, but.... by canadian_right · 2004-03-17 12:57 · Score: 1

It is actually very hard to find a spot to drill where you will NOT hit water if you drill deep enough.
A failed test"
a detailed article on dowsing
Randi is not a lunatic. He has been very even handed in his testing. And he did NOT dismiss dowsing out of hand, he has tested it.

--
Anarchists never rule
Re:Not in doubt, but.... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-17 13:08 · Score: 0

If you feel exactly the same way by the time you get your doctorate, I will be very much amazed. If you truly felt that way then what research would there be left to do? There are very few complete humanoid skeletons covering many 10s of thousands of years (less than a dozen I believe), leaving large gaps. Also, the dating techniques used to date some of these skeletons leave much to be desired by the critical person (relies too heavily on geology IMO in some cases). Sedimentary layers CAN be formed quickly (as proved by the Mt. St. Helens eruption) as can charcoal (as proved in a lab), causing potentially large errors when dating.
Heck, just over the past 100-200 years the average brain (as well as height) has increased quite noticably in size. Is that really evolution though? No genes have been altered, just people with genes (or perhaps nutrition) leading to this result have become more prevalent.
Re:Not in doubt, but.... by Hatta · 2004-03-17 13:14 · Score: 2, Insightful

Not to split heirs, but the Theory of Evolution is in fact a theory, not a fact (by the scientific definition of the words). Of course, there really aren't scientific facts, just laws, and any good Slashdot reader knows full well even laws are subject to interpretation by those who wouldn't use IANAL.

Special relativity is a theory, the heliocentric solar system is just a theory. Theory to a scientist is more powerful than when used casually. A scientific theory is one that has been through testing and is supported by enough evidence that it would be perverse to deny its truth. Barring future evidence to the contrary, which is always possible.

--
Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
Re:Not in doubt, but.... by Feanturi · 2004-03-17 13:39 · Score: 1

We live in an information age. You would think if evolution were still in full swing, that smarter people would proliferate. I am surrounded by an ever increasing horde of idiots. If we were animals, the stupid offspring would be culled and the higher rates of reproduction among these lower order members would be cancelled out by their propensity towards dying earlier. The human species as a whole has apparently decided that everyone, no matter how stupid or disease ridden, needs to be kept alive and allowed to not only survive but to reproduce. It seems that we as a species are devolving.

Sure, because evolution is about who gets to mate. Intelligence doesn't seem to be the great guarantee we might like it to be. I had one that was totally turned on by brains, but she flaked out on me. But maybe it's not all bad... If there were more geek-types in the world, the Slashdot effect would be greatly magnified, and it's bad enough already. Dumber people equals more bandwidth for everyone!
Re:Not in doubt, but.... by harlows_monkeys · 2004-03-17 14:22 · Score: 1

I saw a TV show on a person in the UK who claims to be a 'water diviner' - he is employed by a drilling company, who has a 100% guarantee on their services. This man (a former geophysicist) claims that he has the ability to find underground sources of water - he boasts an 80% accuracy rate, and in most cases will tell you how far down to drill, as well as the amount of water (in cubic feet per minute) the well will produce
Well, considering that drilling at random in most places has about a 75% success rate, and geologists and others familiar with a given region have close to a 100% rate, how exactly is a geophysicist getting 80% supposed to impress me?
Re:Not in doubt, but.... by Mikeydude750 · 2004-03-17 14:44 · Score: 0

Prove the existence of God, then.

Any scientist can show you pretty darn good proof that evolution is at least partially, while I have yet to see believable proof of a God.
Re:Not in doubt, but.... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-17 15:08 · Score: 0

Okay, the evidence for evolution that I have seen so far has been in regards to micro evolution. This is very real, we see it in dogs and on the islands. It has been confirmed many times.

What I have yet to see is a good example of macro evolution. Please show me evidence where one species has evolved into another, species.
Re:Not in doubt, but.... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-17 15:17 · Score: 0

This is why none of the creationists, or the UFO-chasers, or the television psychics have ever managed to win the million-dollar challenge posted by the James Randi Educational Foundation. And before anyone screams 'conspiracy', remember that all one needs to do to win the prize, which is held in an escrow account, is present evidence of any paranormal phenomena which completely at odds with modern science.

Yes, but no one has won the $10,000.00 challenge to disprove the Time Cube either.

Ok, maybe the rules for the prize are not as fair or well-defined, but still...
Re:Not in doubt, but.... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-17 15:51 · Score: 0

you....
Re:Not in doubt, but.... by the+gnat · 2004-03-17 16:08 · Score: 1

What I have yet to see is a good example of macro evolution. Please show me evidence where one species has evolved into another, species.

A lot of creationists seem to share this confusion over terminology and the mechanics of evolution. (I'm going to be charitable, and assume that it's confusion and not a deliberate attempt to obfuscate the issue.)

Macroevolution is simply the long-term effect of microevolution. You seem to be viewing speciation as a sudden event, where half the apes in a given area suddenly lose most of their body hair, walk erect, start making tools, and build houses - pow! a new species! In fact, what happens is that a tribe of apes is split into reproductively isolated groups, and the combined genetic drift over many millennia renders them into separate species. (Which, by the simplest definition, means that they do not mate with each other, although this is not an iron rule.)

I'm honestly not sure whether we've directly observed enough genetic drift to yield separate species, although I suspect the answer is yes. It would almost certainly be possible to simulate this in the short term by means of artificial mutagenesis applied to separate lab stocks. However, the mechanisms of genetic drift in distinct populations is well established - as you admit. All that is needed for dog breeds to become distinct species is thousands of years of reproductive isolation. It really doesn't take all that much mutation. . . in dogs, the changes are very superficial so they can still breed.

So, the counter-question for you is: since you admit that natural selection and genetic drift yields distinct varieties of dogs or finches, why do you think this same process cannot yield distinct species? There's really no hard cutoff between the two.

On the molecular level, one need only look at the genomes of very closely related species. This is being done on a very large scale; much of the effort in publicly funded genome sequencing is directed towards evolutionary genomics. I know of a number of people who are doing comparisons of very closely related organisms which diverged recently and are morphologically distinct and nonbreeding but whose genomes are nearly identical. (Usually fruit flies, yeast, and other model organisms - and we'll have the chimp genome soon.) Reconstructing the evolutionary history of these families will be a significant research project, but is entirely feasible.

Within the next decade, the link between micro- and macro-evolution will be absolutely ironclad thanks to genomics work. I don't expect this to end the debate, however; the creationists have never been interested in science anyway.
Re:Not in doubt, but.... by the+gnat · 2004-03-17 16:16 · Score: 1

I once saw Kenneth Miller (among others) debate a group of creationists on "Firing Line". One of the creationists kept saying "show me the fossil record!" and Miller kept pulling out more and more charts illustrating how a prior evolutionary hypothesis had been borne out by newer fossil discoveries. Eventually the creationist just said he wouldn't accept evolution until he could see complete fossil intermediates for every single stage.**

Anyway, that's just what this thread brought to mind. I admire you for trying, though. :)

** Which is a good illustration of why creationists aren't scientists at all, because if we applied the same standard to the rest of biology nobody would ever publish anything. Science depends on proposing hypotheses from limited data, which further work will prove or negate - and so far, no new evidence has negated evolutionary theory, only presented more questions to answer later on.
Re:Not in doubt, but.... by the+gnat · 2004-03-17 16:25 · Score: 3, Insightful

The human species as a whole has apparently decided that everyone, no matter how stupid or disease ridden, needs to be kept alive and allowed to not only survive but to reproduce.

Yeah, it just makes me furious when I see poor or sick people having kids. How dare they pass on their faulty genes! And how dare our government let this happen! People with genetic defects should be sterilized, if not put to a merciful death. And next, if you're a Charles Murray fan, sterilize black people.

What cave did you crawl out of? Have you been smoking pot and reading Peter Singer or something?

It seems that we as a species are devolving.

On the contrary, I would argue that the modern shared social understanding that all human lives are of equal value, deserving of dignity, and entitled to maintain control of their own destiny, represents the high point of our evolution. Except in your case, of course.
Re:Not in doubt, but.... by Himring · 2004-03-17 17:08 · Score: 1

Ugh, sorry to be anal, but you slaughtered that. The more appropriate wording is:

If the law is on your side, pound the law.
If the facts are on your side, pound the facts.
If neither is on your side, pound the table.

See? As any drunk girl would tell ya, it's all in the pounding....

--
"All great things are simple & expressed in a single word: freedom, justice, honor, duty, mercy, hope." --Churchill
Re:Not in doubt, but.... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-17 22:48 · Score: 0

Creationism is supernatural but so is belief in God - the latter is both incapable of being falsified and clearly falls victim to Occam's razor (creating an all-seeing all-powerful being who transcends the laws of physics is not necessary to explain the universe...)
Re:Not in doubt, but.... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-17 23:02 · Score: 0

Evolution scientist meets God and says God is an amateur because he can make even beter humans.

So God agrees to a contest. He picks up some dirt and makes an Adam mk I with it.

The Evolution scientist smiles convidently and bends over to pick up some dirt only to be stoped by God. "No He says. Use your own dust"

I'l believe the science blokes when they make a big bang from nothing
Re:Not in doubt, but.... by FatherOfONe · 2004-03-18 00:10 · Score: 2, Insightful

Good points, and being the one that started this thread, I would like to say that I do believe in God and evolution. However it kills me to see the so called scientist that say that evolution is fact. I wouldn't mind so much if they at least said "To the best of our knowledge now..." this is what we believe. Those same people said.
1. Global cooling is real (1960's)
2. Global warming is real (1980's+)
3. The Atkins diet will not work :-)
4. Ok, the Atkins diet will work :-)
5. Eggs are bad for you... wait check that... .... You get the idea

It is my belief that God created everything, now how he did it, I have no clue, but it did start with God. Granted this is all way off topic...

--
The more I learn about science, the more my faith in God increases.
Re:Not in doubt, but.... by Orgazmus · 2004-03-18 00:50 · Score: 1

No, you got it wrong.
Tom has the evidence and dont draw conclutions,
SCO Group just draws conclutions from their sick little minds..

--
The system had the verbosity of HTML combined with all the readability of compiled assembly viewed as bitmap images
Re:Not in doubt, but.... by jwo7777777 · 2004-03-18 02:54 · Score: 1

I am smart (IQ 140+), I know how to prevent kids (birth control, surgery, abstinence, etc...) and yet I chose and love all six of my kids and my wife.

Smart does not equal Grinch, smart does not equal wise, and wisdom is not the exclusive purview of the politically correct.

Smart says "Here is the valley or peak of the function, let us dwell there!" Wisdom says "That is just a localized peak or valley, let us grit our teeth, and press beyond it to the true peak or valley!"

I shall now shut up before pedanticism occurs.
Re:Not in doubt, but.... by schon · 2004-03-18 04:20 · Score: 1

how exactly is a geophysicist getting 80% supposed to impress me?

Perhaps you should read the whole post.

It's not just "random" - he tells how deep to drill, as well as how much water will be produced, with an 80% success rate.
Re:Not in doubt, but.... by schon · 2004-03-18 04:23 · Score: 1

I think you'll note that nowhere did I say that dowsing was real, just that this guy claims it's real.

did NOT dismiss dowsing out of hand, he has tested it.

He tested it, and then used that test to dismiss it out of hand.

Not the mark of someone with an open mind.
Re:Not in doubt, but.... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-18 04:42 · Score: 0

It is my opinion that evolution is not dis-provable, regardless of what evidence is discovered. With the simple premise that genes can mutate and creatures with mutations can reproduce, then there really is nothing to stop the theory of evolution. Obviously, you can't build a complete picture of the past generations of creatures on earth because way too much evidence has been destroyed (which was my point to the anthropology guy; if you could form a complete picture, that would conclusively prove or disprove evolution). He needs to know the limits of the data presented to him. While the theory of evolution as a whole may be correct, the way it crystalizes can vary from decade to decade (significantly even). FYI, I'm not a Creationist, just someone who is more doubtful of historical sciences compared to other branches of science. It is Decarte who said "I doubt therefore I think, I think therefore I am" and I think more people should doubt what they are taught in school until they can reasonably defend what they have been taught, especially on matters which may or may not conflict with their own religion.
Re:Not in doubt, but.... by the+gnat · 2004-03-18 07:42 · Score: 1

However it kills me to see the so called scientist that say that evolution is fact. I wouldn't mind so much if they at least said "To the best of our knowledge now..." this is what we believe.

Oh, but macroevolution most certainly is established fact. However, the complete evolutionary lineage of every modern organism is not as well established, and there are a number of questions that evolutionary biology has yet to answer conclusively or at all. Among these:

- Origin of cellular life
- Origin of protein-based cells
- Origin of eukaryotic cells
- Origin of multicellularity

These are all topics that are essentially impossible to address via the fossil record, and which are difficult to explain in general. However, biologists are working on these questions, which you can't say about creationists; I know someone working on the last question, and there's good models for the third - and extant organisms that may represent intermediates for each.

I think that evolution by natural selection did cause all of these things, but I admit that I can't provide any evidence for it. I think scientists are a little dishonest when they lump together abiogenesis (origin of life - about which we know virtually nothing) and hominid origins (which are very well described). It confuses the issue, and leaves them open to attack. However, evolution does explain perfectly the diversity of modern life forms.

In other words, if you believe that God created life, I can't (and won't) argue with that, because I don't have any better ideas - although I suspect we'll find some eventually. And I think schools should be honest and say, yeah, we have no clue about that stuff. None of this negates anything about evolutionary theory, however.
Re:Not in doubt, but.... by FatherOfONe · 2004-03-18 08:25 · Score: 1

Would this be the same scientist that said that electricity flows from positive to negative charge, and stated that as fact? :-)

My main point still stands.

--
The more I learn about science, the more my faith in God increases.
Re:Not in doubt, but.... by JamieF · 2004-03-18 08:33 · Score: 1

>I'm sorry, but anyone here who believes that they came from an ape....come on now.

It's hardly ridiculous. They look like us, act like us, have extremely similar internal body structure, have 98% of the same DNA... in fact, they're so similar to us that diseases that affect them can affect us. Ebola and HIV are examples of diseases that are believed to have come to humans from apes.

I guess if you've just seen a picture of a monkey once, or seen once sitting around in a zoo, you ould be ignorant of all that.

>I came from a creator God with infinite wisdom, infinite knowledge, and an infinite understanding of everything possible.

I see - your theory of the origin of mankind is based on personal pride. How do you know that you weren't created, for example, by aliens as a joke, or a high school science project? Nope, couldn't be - that wouldn't satisfy your sense of pride.

>To say I came from a pool of goo "millions of years ago" is just ludicrous.

You didn't. You came from your mother's womb. A pool of goo BILLIONS of years ago produced some chemicals. Those took BILLIONS of years to arrange themselves into structures that replicated themselves. Those took an extremely long time to arrange themselves into single celled organisms. Those took an extremely long time to arrange themselves into colonies, and then multicelled organisms, and so on. It's possible with the fossil record and living animals to see a gradual change from simple organisms to ones that look almost exactly like us.

To say that there's some magic invisible man in the sky who spontaneously created a person out of thin air 6000 years ago is far more ridiculous, and has exactly zero evidence to back it up, and massive amounts of human experience and material evidence that disagrees with that account of the origin of mankind.

However, creationism does come bundled with a big pat on the back for being the very favorite organisms of the most perfect wonderful being in the universe, and with some handy rider clauses such as that the rest of the creatures belong to men, including women and children but also all animals, whether or not they appear to suffer when you kill them, and even men who believe in other gods. It's very convenient.

Lately, as human ethics have matured, religious apologists have backpedaled on some of those items, trying to reinterpret a literal reading of their holy books into something that is more suitable to contemporary attitudes toward women and children, foreigners, people of other races, etc. Isn't it interesting how malleable those absolutely true holy words are to the requirements of the moment? But they're still precisely and completely true *now*, regardless of how they used to be interpreted, or (in some cases) how they were worded in the language they were originally written in. The best that creationists can do is to have someone else tell them what their holy books mean, and then believe in that without question and in the face of evidence to the contrary.

> why does the number of years it took us to "evolve" keep getting longer

Where did you get this idea?

> newer things about the human body that can't possibly be "evolved" even in their stupid Big Bang timeframe

Please provide a specific example of a structure in the human body that scientists say could not possibly have been evolved in the amount of time that has elapsed since the Big Bang. A link or a bibliographic reference counts; "I heard that there was something like that" doesn't.

Creationists somehow overlook the fact that there are many other organisms on this planet other than humans. There are many examples of other animals that have very similar structures to ours (not limited just to primates). Eyes and red blood cells and brains and sexual reproduction and DNA are really fascinating and complex, but they're not unique traits to humans by any stretch of the imagination.

Also, anyone who denies that evolution could happen is ignor
Re:Not in doubt, but.... by JamieF · 2004-03-18 08:35 · Score: 2, Funny

Fair enough. I'll believe creationists when they can pull God down from the sky and show him/her to me, and get him/her to answer questions like "how can all those different translations and editions of your holy book be equally correct, when any linguist can demonstrate that the translations say totally different things?".
Re:Not in doubt, but.... by JamieF · 2004-03-18 09:03 · Score: 1

> However it kills me to see the so called scientist that say that evolution is fact. I wouldn't mind so much if they at least said "To the best of our knowledge now..." this is what we believe.

Anyone who says that anything is absolute fact is not a scientist, by definition, unless that absolute fact is "I think, therefore I am."

Science is about using reality to test hypotheses. As such, nothing can be 100% unwaveringly always absolutely incontravertibly true to a scientist. Any scientist with any sort of education is well aware of how every scientific discipline has had models of the universe that seemed to fit, but were proven not to be accurate after a while.

Creationists looooove to say that evolution is "just a theory", but so are relativity and gravity. I doubt many creationists would be willing to jump off a cliff or subjected to a nuclear explosion with only prayer to protect them.

Creationists also looooove to point out that scientists, over the course of human history, have been wrong. Firstly, religious folks have been incredibly wrong and changed their dogma many times as well (witchcraft, heresy, crusades, genocide, etc.) so it's not as though creationists have any moral high ground here. Secondly, that's the nature of science: new data, if reproducible and not explainable by existing models, can at times invalidate those existing models. Over time, as more data is gathered, the models that we have for the universe become increasingly accurate.

However, that doesn't mean that any time some dork says that they have some data that proves that an extremely well-tested hypothesis is false, they are correct. Cold Fusion is a good example of a scientific claim that someone made that would have been very beneficial to mankind, and would have made a lot of people a lot of money, and people really tried to reproduce it, but it didn't work. Some people choose to believe in it even though it doesn't actually work, and cry "cover-up", but that's science at work - the proof just wasn't there. As much as people wanted it to be true, it wasn't, or at least nobody could prove that it was, so it was discarded as a fluke.

In addition to pointing out the obvious and not at all shocking nature of scientific knowledge as improving over time, you also make a tremendous leap in lumping nutritionists and meteorologists in with anthropologists as "these same people". I seriously doubt that the experts debating the safety and efficacy of the Atkins diet are also experts on global warming and anthropology.

You also make a foolish mistake in assuming that any report that you're aware of on any issue represents the professional and official opinion all scientists everywhere. So you read something somewhere that was written by someone claiming to follow a scientific method, and then read something else written by someone else that (possibly) also claimed to follow a scientific method, and who disagreed with the first one. Do you want a cookie?

Oh no, two people disagreed! You've proven that science is a sham!

Not.
Re:Not in doubt, but.... by JamieF · 2004-03-18 09:09 · Score: 2, Insightful

> It is my opinion that evolution is not dis-provable

Fair enough...

>regardless of what evidence is discovered.

Oh dear. So, if (for the sake of argument) one day a crashed alien mothership is found buried in Africa that has schematics and equipment required to manufacture all creatures living or dead, and many many scientific studies are done that demonstrate that this is not a hoax... you would still believe in evolution?

I'm not suggesting that this is the real origin of man, but I'm trying to point out that you've basically said that you are 100% fanatically devoted to evolution regardless of actual data, which is kinda messed up.
Re:Not in doubt, but.... by JamieF · 2004-03-18 09:17 · Score: 1

>If you truly felt that way then what research would there be left to do?

Wow, that's a pretty ignorant question, as if the only thing anthropologists did in your opinion was to try to prove that evolution was a law instead of a theory, or something like that.

Go look up what anthropology is.
Re:Not in doubt, but.... by Alzheimers · 2004-03-19 05:47 · Score: 1

I think that evolution is showing us just exactly why Darwin was such a genius.

At this point in human evolution, we have two branches of society that compete for dominance. We have those with more developed mental abilities, and those with more developed physical abilities. Previously in our evolution, those with the better physical traits (survivability) were more likely to succed over smarter but less healthy individuals.

However, in today's world we find that exactly the opposite is starting to happen. Those with excellent physical ability but low mental capacity are being relegated to the bottom of the social foodchain while those with higher intellect are being raised to the top. The effect of this is that the more physically advanced need to be more proliferate to survive, while those who are in a position of power need less.

Which evolutionary pathway will succeed in becoming mankind's next step? Who knows? Darwin!
Re:Not in doubt, but.... by Noren · 2004-03-22 07:57 · Score: 1

I find it strange that you have a Benjamin Franklin quote for your .sig, but your post disparages his scientific work (which was well before Darwin.) If you're being ironic that's an odd choice of a quote.
Benjamin Frankin was the person who decided which pole was the positive one of the two and which was the negative because he was the first to recognize in terminology that they were opposites rather than fundamentally different kinds of electricity (vitreous and resinous)... and that items without electrical properties were in balance rather than lacking electricity. From a letter in 1747:
'Hence have arisen some new terms among us; we say B (and other bodies alike circumstanced) are electrized positively; A negatively. Or rather B is electrized plus and A minus.'
He didn't declare that electricity flowed in a particular direction, he just invented a language to better describe a phenomenon. There was no evidence one way or another to indicate which he should choose as positive and which as negative, and he happened to choose B to be positive and A negative. The actual choice of which type to assign to be positive and which to be negative was nearly irrelevant- it's so close to irrelevant that to this day electrical engineers talk about current flowing in the opposite direction from the direction the electrons actually flow, because the equations work just fine that way!
Re:Not in doubt, but.... by FatherOfONe · 2004-03-22 09:30 · Score: 1

Dude relax. My point is to take what scientist say as fact can get you killed. Just ask the first few astronauts that killed at the launch pad, or the people that believed in global cooling in the 1960's. This is not to say that all of them suck, or that their work is worthless, far from it.

I just remember Carl Sagan on CNN during the first war with Iraq. He said that the world would be covered in darkness when the oil wells got lit. He implied that only a few would need to get lit to have this happen. The government scientist then said that he did not believe this would happen. CNN took the government scientist to the wall over this issue. I honestly believe that CNN was sad that the war went so well AND that Carl was wrong.

As far as my sig... It is just a sig man :-)

--
The more I learn about science, the more my faith in God increases.
Re:Not in doubt, but.... by jasonisgodzilla · 2004-03-24 04:04 · Score: 1

Yes, because what we need are more people. Approaching 9 billion in the next few years, when the sustainable level is 6 billion. Why don't we encourage people with Down's syndrome and every other genetic abhorration to reproduce so we will not only have a shitload of people, but we will have a shitload of unproductive people that we as a society will have to carry. Let's encourage people who can't feed or clothe themselves to produce more people who can't feed or clothe themselves. Then we can all work our asses off so that these people can steal half of our stuff, and so that the govenrment can take the other half to feed them. I never said anything about killing anyone. Anyone who is alive should be allowed to live their life, but they shouldn't pass on negative traits to future generations. "what cave did you crawl out of" I crawled out of the one where people have a fucking clue and aren't all bleeding hearts. When we don't have enough food to feed all of the people who don't have the mental or physical means to feed themselves and their children, I want to see you at the front of the line to give up your sustenance for them. I'm sure as hell not going to do it. Why don't you educate yourself before you open your mouth in the future. Try not to slip over all the blood from your bleeding heart on the way out.

Gee, what's next? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-17 04:06 · Score: 1, Funny

An investigative story featuring Anandtech Deals versus Fatwallet.com Deals?

Now I know... by RobertB-DC · 2004-03-17 04:07 · Score: 4, Funny

Now I know where our friend Orlando Soto buys his computers.

Hmmm... has anyone ever actually seen "Michael Gonzales" and "Orlando Soto" together? Put glasses on this guy, and he looks an awful lot like this guy...

--
Stressed? Me? Of course not. Stress is what a rubber band feels before it breaks, silly.

Re:Now I know... by EvilNTUser · 2004-03-17 10:43 · Score: 1

And remember, no one's seen Jesus and Hitler together either!

--
My Sig: SEGV
Re:Now I know... by Night+Goat · 2004-03-17 15:30 · Score: 1

That is awesome. Thank you for bringing that web page to my attention. I always figured they were the same person, but now I know. Awesome.
Re:Now I know... by DF5JT · 2004-03-18 08:54 · Score: 1

" That is awesome. "

Indeed. I assume you have read the fan mail as well.

So he's a scam artist... by myownkidney · 2004-03-17 04:08 · Score: 0

So what's new?

Move on

--
Indefinitely Detained US Citizen

Lesson to learn: by musingmelpomene · 2004-03-17 04:08 · Score: 4, Funny

Ok, kiddies, the important lesson of the day is: When you want to scam people into buying your product, try to advertise a product that exists. Then it'll always work. So...ummm...*shuffles feet*...who wants to buy the Brooklyn Bridge?

Re:Lesson to learn: by frodo+from+middle+ea · 2004-03-17 04:21 · Score: 4, Funny

I do, as soon as I get my 10% cut of the 15 mil., from this really nice guy from nigeria whose uncle (the late military leader) who unfortunatey was killed.

--
for the last time people, I am "frodo from middle eaRTH", not "middle eaST".
Re:Lesson to learn: by schon · 2004-03-17 04:21 · Score: 2, Funny

Are you saying the Brooklyn Bridge does not exist?

Of course not! Otherwise he wouldn't be following his own advice!

BTW, I wonder how much he wants for it. :o)
Re:Lesson to learn: by musingmelpomene · 2004-03-17 04:22 · Score: 1

She. :) I'll give it to you for $20, one time only deal - you can paypal the money to me, bridgeofbirds@yahoo.com .
Re:Lesson to learn: by insulto · 2004-03-17 04:24 · Score: 1

About that bridge thing, is free shipping to Europe included or extra?
Re:Lesson to learn: by musingmelpomene · 2004-03-17 04:27 · Score: 2, Funny

For an extra $50 (sent to my paypal account, email address bridgeofbirds@yahoo.com) I'll ship worldwide.
Everyone needs a bridge. And this is a steal - I went to a dentist once and a bridge cost hundreds!
Re:Lesson to learn: by parkrrrr · 2004-03-17 04:27 · Score: 5, Funny

About that bridge thing, is free shipping to Europe included or extra?
The free shipping is extra.
Re:Lesson to learn: by insulto · 2004-03-17 04:29 · Score: 1

Argh :)
Re:Lesson to learn: by YomikoReadman · 2004-03-17 04:29 · Score: 1

I'll trade you the Tokyo Tower for it.

--
I have no regrets, this is the only path.
My whole life has been "UNLIMITED BLADE WORKS"
Re:Lesson to learn: by Bombcar · 2004-03-17 04:35 · Score: 4, Interesting

Can you image how hard it was to actually sell the London Bridge? Probably the only reason the Arizona guy got it was that everyone else thought it was a scam.

Someone also sold the Eiffel tower for scrap.

Twice.

To the same company, I believe.

--
Fellowship 9/11
Re:Lesson to learn: by Chalybeous · 2004-03-17 04:39 · Score: 1

Forget the Brooklyn Bridge, why not invest your $20 in my unobtanium-mining pyramid scheme...

--
"It is dark. You are likely to be eaten by a grue." -- Zork
Re:Lesson to learn: by musingmelpomene · 2004-03-17 04:39 · Score: 4, Funny

Oh yeah. I bought it. Would you like to buy it from me? Special deal, one time only, and only because the French are unpatriotic. $500 and it's yours. Free shipping.
Re:Lesson to learn: by musingmelpomene · 2004-03-17 04:42 · Score: 2, Funny

Unobtanium? Sure! That sounds easy enough to find. What could possibly go wrong?
Re:Lesson to learn: by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-17 04:45 · Score: 0

Oooh.. do you take cash? Will a million dollar bill do as downpayment?
Re:Lesson to learn: by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-17 04:46 · Score: 1, Funny

I'll take two! And please include one of those Infinium Phantom consoles I've heard so much about!
Re:Lesson to learn: by Bombcar · 2004-03-17 04:48 · Score: 4, Funny

Tell you what, ship it COD.

But if I don't get it within 2 weeks, you're going to get negative feedback. :)

--
Fellowship 9/11
Re:Lesson to learn: by Chalybeous · 2004-03-17 04:51 · Score: 3, Funny

Well, I could be arrested by the government of Dictatoria for being a capitalist - but if you send me $20,000 to cover the legal fees, we can transfer the accounts into your name and move my assets of $15,000,000 (FIFTEEN MILLION DOLLARS) out of the country. Your fee, as foreign partner, will be 30%; I get 60%; and 10% will be used to cover sundry expenses. Please fax me your bank account details at 555-0419.

Personally, I'm more worried about the US government tracking me down. This morning I saw a black helicopter; any day now they'll find out where I'm hiding, and then I'll be--%20[CARRIER LOST]

;-)

--
"It is dark. You are likely to be eaten by a grue." -- Zork
Re:Lesson to learn: by AlecC · 2004-03-17 04:55 · Score: 1

Ah - which London Bridge? The belief of many is that he thought he was buying Tower Bridge, which is much more memorable, and thought it was a very special price.

--
Consciousness is an illusion caused by an excess of self consciousness.
Re:Lesson to learn: by musingmelpomene · 2004-03-17 05:05 · Score: 2, Funny

Oh no...carrier lost? Were you eaten by a grue? :)
Re:Lesson to learn: by musingmelpomene · 2004-03-17 05:08 · Score: 1

For the tokyo tower, I'll throw in a copy of Duke Nukem Forever AND a copy of George R.R. Martin's "A Feast For Crows."
Re:Lesson to learn: by schon · 2004-03-17 05:29 · Score: 1

She.

Ahh, my apologies.

I'll give it to you for $20, one time only deal

Deal. Hoo boy, can't wait to tell the wife!

you can paypal the money to me

Ack - sorry, I don't use paypal, it's too easy to get scammed.

Can I send you cash via the post office? :o)
Re:Lesson to learn: by Chalybeous · 2004-03-17 05:40 · Score: 1

No, but Windows just beat me at Battleships :-P
(Well hey, you try doing better without making a Pearl Harbour joke. That would be the fastest way to get modded -1, Tasteless Humour! Meh, how come there are no nice geeks of a female persuasion in my locality to have this kind of fun banter with?)

--
"It is dark. You are likely to be eaten by a grue." -- Zork
Re:Lesson to learn: by musingmelpomene · 2004-03-17 05:47 · Score: 1

I have nothing to do at work but listen to mp3's and talk on AIM (my days at work bear an astonishing resemblance to my days off). So you should instant message me.
Re:Lesson to learn: by schon · 2004-03-17 05:49 · Score: 2, Funny

Will a million dollar bill do as downpayment?

Hehe.. from your link:

"The US Treasury does not make $1m bills, which only go as high as $100."

Are they saying that they do make $1M bills then, but that they only go up to $100?

Or are they saying that the US treasury doesn't make $1M bills that are only worth $100. (Maybe the Treasury department has been taken over by the Department of Redundancy Department?)
Re:Lesson to learn: by Chalybeous · 2004-03-17 05:55 · Score: 1

That sounds like an offer I can't refuse. Although I'm waiting to get modded off-topic for dragging this out... tell you what, go leave a comment in my journal about where I can find you, and we'll pick this up later on.

--
"It is dark. You are likely to be eaten by a grue." -- Zork
Re:Lesson to learn: by Hel+Toupee · 2004-03-17 06:00 · Score: 1

You can't sell the Brooklyn Bridge! My cousin owns it. Bought it from a nice chap back in '95 when he visited Manhattan. Title company is taking forever to get him the deed, though...

Did you take time to watch the video of the interview? The guy has obviously run scams before, but knows nothing about computers. He must think it's going to work because he got t-shirts, business cards, and liscence plate covers printed...

--
PERL:
All of the power of Voodoo with most of the understandibility!
Re:Lesson to learn: by jellomizer · 2004-03-17 06:18 · Score: 1

He also didn't have to pay taxes on it because when he went threw customs and asked if he had anything to declare he said the london bridge and thinking it was a joke he was let threw.

--
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
Re:Lesson to learn: by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-17 06:21 · Score: 0

Fat nerd girl finds fat nerd guy on slashdot.

It's a match made in fucking heaven. Please don't cyber-reproduce, we have enough overweight uglies in the world as it is.
Re:Lesson to learn: by bhtooefr · 2004-03-17 06:45 · Score: 1

Actually, I thought sure there was a $1000 bill, but it's harder to find than a $2 bill (I've seen exactly one $2 bill, but I know someone who has one).
Re:Lesson to learn: by BlameFate · 2004-03-17 07:13 · Score: 1

He also only bought the facade. They chipped off the front face of the stone blocks to a depth of a couple inches, shipped that over and assebled the faces on a concrete structure. I live not far away from the quarry on moorland where the original stones are dumped.

--
--is not to be confused with user #672982 - Bame Flait
Re:Lesson to learn: by chmilar · 2004-03-17 07:18 · Score: 1

The French are very patriotic. They love France.

However, they are often anti-American.

--
Reading Slashdot is ruining my spelling and grammar.
Re:Lesson to learn: by plugger · 2004-03-17 07:24 · Score: 1

There's more to this than meets the eye:

"Mr Turner said she claimed she got the bills from her husband."

Maybe Mr and Mrs Turner are one and the same person. I think we should be told!
Re:Lesson to learn: by Danga · 2004-03-17 07:33 · Score: 1

I have seen many, MANY $2 bills. A grocery store in the town I grew up in gives them out as change as a kind of gimmic. When visiting friends/relatives in other towns I would use the $2 bills all the time and they thought I was crazy, I never really understood the big deal until I realized the really are not that common in most other places. I guess our local bank special orders them or something like that for the grocery store. A $1000 bill I have never seen though lol.

--
Hey, there is only one Return and it's not of the King, it's of the Jedi.
Re:Lesson to learn: by jargoone · 2004-03-17 07:38 · Score: 1

When you receive it, could you do me a favor? Rename it to the "Freedom Tower". Thank you very much.
Re:Lesson to learn: by admiralh · 2004-03-17 07:49 · Score: 1

There are real U.S. $500, $1000, $5000, and $10,000 bills, but they are no longer printed. Binion's Horseshoe Casino (where the World Serier of Poker is held) had a display of 100 of the extant $10,000 bills (actually gold certificates), but sold it to a collector in 2000. Since there are less than 500 of the 10K bills remaining, they are worth far more than the face value.

You can go to the bank and ask for a $2 bill, just don't try to use it at a Taco Bell.

--
Hopelessly pedantic since 1963.
Re:Lesson to learn: by Fishead · 2004-03-17 07:52 · Score: 1

I have 3 $2 bills, and had a $1000 bill when I bought my car.

But then I live in Canada so it is no big deal
Re:Lesson to learn: by Stitch_626 · 2004-03-17 08:19 · Score: 1

The first issue of $1000 by the US government the legal tender note in 1862. The last $1000 note made was the 1934A series in 1945. The government still circulated but did not print any new ones up to 1969. After that when any came in to the banks they were sent in to the Federal Reserve were they were destroyed.

--
Ohana means family. Family means nobody gets left behind or forgotten.
Re:Lesson to learn: by ShawnDoc · 2004-03-17 08:29 · Score: 1

Uh, that was the joke.
Re:Lesson to learn: by srcosmo · 2004-03-17 09:24 · Score: 2, Informative

That would be Victor Lustig, one of the greatest frauds ever.
At one point he apparently sold a phony counterfeitting machine to some poor sap for $25,000 (in 1926 dollars!). After his arrest on unrelated charges, he used another of the machines to bribe his way out of jail -- and net $10,000 from the (rather thick) sherrif in the process.
It's all in the link up there.

--
free speach
Did you mean: free speech
Re:Lesson to learn: by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-17 10:04 · Score: 0

Off topic, but I gotta say it... Number Ten Ox is teh r0xx0rz!!1
Re:Lesson to learn: by amw · 2004-03-17 10:26 · Score: 1

Maybe Mr and Mrs Turner are one and the same person
Not that it's being suggested that reading the articles helps or anything (this is /., after all), but 'Mr Turner' is the local police chief.

Mind you, I guess that still doesn't stop him also being Mrs. Pike; I'm assuming that's her in the photo, but I'm not 100% convinced.
Re:Lesson to learn: by tytyty · 2004-03-17 11:22 · Score: 1

Very amusing.

My father was the CFO of McCullock Properties who actually signed the check (2.5 million dollars + 1 million for shipping and reassembly). I have hundreds of doodads that were made from the leftover granite.

The original bridge was hollow but 4 times as long as the manmade span it was to cover at Lake Havasu AZ. As they disassembled the brigde block by block the pieces were numbered after the pieces arrived in AZ the builder selected the 2 arches to be rebuilt and the previously hollow core was filled with concrete. There is a lot in Lake Havasu City with hundreds of the blocks avaliabe for the asking.

Oh and yes I got to meet the Mayor of London at the opening.

--
REAL penguins build their own kernels and binaries!

duh.. by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-17 04:08 · Score: 0, Offtopic

This is easy...

I bet Michael's computers have a lot of kiddie porn on them, or they have info. about hijacking other people's domains.

Michael sucks. huh? what do you mean no our Michael???

Hee hee by grub · 2004-03-17 04:08 · Score: 5, Funny

"Neighbors confirmed that Michael Gonzales used to live there, but moved out after a divorce."

Maybe his ex-wife was an unsatisfied early user?

--
Trolling is a art,

Re:Hee hee by EulerX07 · 2004-03-17 04:19 · Score: 4, Funny

Yeah, the news on the grapevine is that is actual boot-up speed was nowhere near advertised, when it actually did bootup.

His 3D performance was also greatly exagerated. However she did admit that she never exceeded 15db when with him, so that part was correct.
Re:Hee hee by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-17 04:21 · Score: 3, Funny

Maybe his ex-wife was an unsatisfied early user?

Maybe it wasn't just the laptop that took 7 seconds...
Re:Hee hee by frodo+from+middle+ea · 2004-03-17 04:23 · Score: 1

Or maybe he was too buzy building the computers... ;)

--
for the last time people, I am "frodo from middle eaRTH", not "middle eaST".
Re:Hee hee by Cheap+Imitation · 2004-03-17 04:29 · Score: 4, Funny

Maybe his ex-wife was an unsatisfied early user?
Being "The World's Fastest" is not a good way to satisfy your wife, that's for sure....
Re:Hee hee by Maestro4k · 2004-03-17 05:03 · Score: 1
- However she did admit that she never exceeded 15db when with him, so that part was correct.
Actually the specs on the desktop were .15 decibels. If she never exceeded .15db while with him, then perhaps his hardware need replacement.
Re:Hee hee by HrothgarReborn · 2004-03-17 08:06 · Score: 1

Actually I bet it could boot up as fast as he said. The problem is that it took less than a minute to dump core.
Re:Hee hee by Oylpann · 2004-03-17 08:59 · Score: 1

perhaps, after they got married, she found out that his performance matched about what his computers were, highly overrated and really overblown.
Re:Hee hee by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-17 09:58 · Score: 0

(Posting as AC for a very good reason)

Well, I see that you don't know my wife!
Re:Hee hee by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-18 00:37 · Score: 0

I am so so sorry for you.

Another fun site along the same "HUH?" lines by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-17 04:09 · Score: 0

http://www.musicxpc.com

Re:Another fun site along the same "HUH?" lines by teamhasnoi · 2004-03-17 04:39 · Score: 2

I don't see anything wrong with that site, no outrageous claims are being made that I could find.
1500+ is more than I would spend on anything but a mac, though.
As far as music stuff goes, it would probably be an alright machine - as long as you didn't want to add an Aardvark Q10 or other pci card. My guess is that it would work fine for a Protools Mbox, 002, or midi machine. (Although windows xp sucks at midi)
Re:Another fun site along the same "HUH?" lines by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-17 14:54 · Score: 0

Check out the "reviews" part of the site. All the reviews are acually on the Shuttle XPC SB51G, not the actual product being sold.

"The MusicXPC is a specially tweaked version of the Shuttle XPC SB51G" as stated on their website.

Sociopaths by DustMagnet · 2004-03-17 04:10 · Score: 4, Informative

Michael was very articulate and calm during the interview. He appears convinced of what he says and advertises.

Sociopaths are dangerous people. Tracking them down is fine, but be careful if you decide to tangle with one. Some will dedicate their life to revenge.

--
'SBEMAIL!' is better than a goat!!

Re:Sociopaths by Speare · 2004-03-17 04:23 · Score: 5, Funny

Hello, my name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die.

--
[ .sig file not found ]
Re:Sociopaths by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-17 04:30 · Score: 0

Some will dedicate their life to revenge.
Hmmh. Neat article! It seems, though, that being ultimate narcissists, sociopaths usually wouldn't waste their time on tracking down former victims actively. But they certainly (if they are leaders of some sort) could mobilize others to do that for them. I think it'd be psychopaths that might resort to compulsive obsessive revenge mode?
Re:Sociopaths by deacon · 2004-03-17 04:40 · Score: 4, Insightful

Sheesh, talk about jumping the gun to get the noose and the tree ready!
Did you (or the moderators) even read the article you linked to?
To quote your article
" Although only a trained professional can make a diagnosis"
Yes, it's clear from the TomsHardware article that you do not want to buy a computer from this guy. Just as obvious, penis enlargment products do not work.
At the same time, Toms is slanting some of their article so the guy will seem even worse.
Toms discovers that Mike does NOT need a business license, and then later in the article makes a big deal that the guy does not have one. Duh!
Still, if you insist on labeling Mike with a psych. eval. based on inadequate data, perhaps you can identify with this one.
Re:Sociopaths by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-17 04:40 · Score: 1, Funny

Holy shit. I read that article... And I'm convinced that I'm a sociopath.

:(
Re:Sociopaths by DustMagnet · 2004-03-17 04:50 · Score: 1

I've seen sociopaths resort to compulsive obsessive revenge mode, but I agree that they generally don't consider most people to be worthy of it. I think the Petswarehouse guy is a good example of a sociopath losing it and going on a legal rampage. I've also seen spammers lose it and go for revenge.
(Is he still around? I said that I think it is an example, but I'm not saying I know it is.)

--
'SBEMAIL!' is better than a goat!!
Re:Sociopaths by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-17 04:54 · Score: 1, Interesting

Did you (or the moderators) even read the article you linked to?
I read it. Why do you ignore the most valid points like: .16 dB noise and 500GB hard disks? How long have you known him as Mike?
Re:Sociopaths by Maestro4k · 2004-03-17 05:01 · Score: 4, Interesting
- Sociopaths are dangerous people. Tracking them down is fine, but be careful if you decide to tangle with one. Some will dedicate their life to revenge.
I know a lot of people are probably going to say "but he's not a sociopath, just some guy running a scam" or something like that about your Sociopath remark (even though you provided a quite informative link) because in so many people's minds sociopath = homicidal maniac. However I believe you may have hit the nail very firmly on the head in this case. I can't imagine anyone that wasn't a true sociopath being able to so calmly answer this unprompted interview, do so on video (without advance notice as well) and not even break a sweat. Heck, a lot of "normal people" can't pass a lie detector test even if they're telling the truth. (A dirty little secret about them is that concern about what led to the polygraph (such as being accused of murder, etc) is enough to trigger a noticeable reaction to any questions relating to that subject -- irregardless of the answer. Basically you can answer yes or no and it register as a lie either way.)
I think the Tom's Hardware guys realized what you're saying as well, they had enough evidence to just really lay into this guy but if you read carefully you'll see an almost pained effort to stay unoffensive to Michael. Frankly I wouldn't be surprised if interviewing the guy wasn't terrifying for them. That said, I hope that if everything is as bogus as it seems that someone can get him stopped.
There are some really strange things here though, Paypal is very sensitive to fraud, and even if they refused to allow chargebacks (they have been reported to just take the money out of your bank account if they get a chargeback), they more than likely would shut down a count that generated quite a few of them. However from the article and the screenshot it would appear his Paypal account is still quite valid. While his busines license isn't valid, it only expired in Januray IIRC, and it would be quite easy to overlook this, especially after having had a divorce and having to move (the notice might have missed him). I'm by no means defending Michael, from the info laid out I'd never buy a computer from the guy myself, but things like this always bug me. Perhaps I just have an inner preference to have things more black & white. :)
Re:Sociopaths by gryphokk · 2004-03-17 05:56 · Score: 3, Funny

Stop saying that!

--
And you, madam, are very ugly. In the morning, I shall be sober.
Re:Sociopaths by iminplaya · 2004-03-17 06:27 · Score: 1

I read your link, and now I'm actually frightened. And you ALL know who I'm talking about.

--
What?
Re:Sociopaths by 0x0d0a · 2004-03-17 06:51 · Score: 1

You misread the article. He did not need a business license in one location (that's a new one on me, as I thought for *sure* that a business license was a state requirement). He did need it in another. Tom was complaining about him not having one in the second location.

--
May we never see th
Re:Sociopaths by bhtooefr · 2004-03-17 06:52 · Score: 1

He doesn't need a business license in Marina Del Rey. He's operating in other locations, however, where he DOES need a business license.

Not that I trust THG that much, and I could see a very obvious slant, as if they had already decided that he was a con man before even investigating, but Michael's claims ARE very off...
Re:Sociopaths by Listen+Up · 2004-03-17 07:07 · Score: 1

It is amazing the posts I see when I have no mod points.

Before this parent post above mine gets modded up any higher, let's all take a look at the facts.

Nobody here is a certified psychologist. You are absolutely NOT qualified by reading a website to diagnose anyone with anything. Period. 0% qualified. None. Nothing. You are simply talking out of your asses.

Hey, maybe the man may simply be a self-confident baffoon who actually believes what he is saying and may not know any better.

But, without very special training and years of actual real-world experience, no one on Slashdot is qualified to make any intelligent diagnosis about anybody.
Re:Sociopaths by SengirV · 2004-03-17 07:22 · Score: 1

Just as obvious, penis enlargment products do not work.
How do you know? I suspect you are an dissatisfied customer.

--
Prof. Farnsworth - "Oh a lesson in not changing history from Mr I'm-My-Own-Grandpa!"
Re:Sociopaths by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-17 07:56 · Score: 1, Funny

no one on Slashdot is qualified to make any intelligent diagnosis about anybody.
Must...resist...circular....logic....aaaAAAHHHHHH! !!
Re:Sociopaths by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-17 09:06 · Score: 0

Nobody here is a certified psychologist.

Nice blanket assertion to start out your (il)logical argument!
Re:Sociopaths by pyrrhonist · 2004-03-17 09:56 · Score: 2, Insightful

Nobody here is a certified psychologist.
That's not a fact, that's an opinion. You can't say with absolute certainty that there are no psychologists that read Slashdot.
You are absolutely NOT qualified by reading a website to diagnose anyone with anything.
No, but, you can watch the interview and receive some interesting clues about Michael.
You are simply talking out of your asses.
Talking out your ass is when you don't have any material to back up your opinion. The poster you flamed stated an opinion, and provided the information that helped him arrive at that conclusion. He was not "talking out his ass".
Hey, maybe the man may simply be a self-confident baffoon who actually believes what he is saying and may not know any better.
That could very well be true. However, the parent poster felt Michael was a little too self-confident in a confrontation situation.
But, without very special training and years of actual real-world experience, no one on Slashdot is qualified to make any intelligent diagnosis about anybody.
Again, we can state an opinion. The parent poster felt that Michael was too calm during the interview not to be a sociopath. He was not trying to make an accurate diagnosis of Michael's state of mind. The poster just found it hard to believe the man was not sociopathic. There was no medical claims involved (i.e. he didn't say, "I've diagnosed Michael as a sociopath"). It was an opinion based on what was seen in the interview, nothing more. The reason that this poster's comment was modded up so high is because of the way the opinion was stated and the infomation that the poster provided to arrive at his opinion.
I'm not trying to be a bitch or anything, I just think you were being a little hard on the guy.

--
Show me on the doll where his noodly appendage touched you.
Re:Sociopaths by Listen+Up · 2004-03-17 10:52 · Score: 1

I stated my first statement simply as a matter of fact that nobody on Slashdot that has posted thus far has given any real credentials to back-up their claims of having enough education and training to diagnose somebody with a pyschological disorder. The problem is that people can take 500 different medical conditions and 'believe' they can connect a person to any one of them using their completely untrained observations. This does not make them either true or insightful. This is what I meant by 'talking out of his ass'.

The parent post was directly implying that he believed the person in the interview was a sociopath. By other posters comments that is the belief he gave to others.

None of the above information I have posted is an opinion.
Re:Sociopaths by pyrrhonist · 2004-03-17 11:25 · Score: 1

I stated my first statement simply as a matter of fact that nobody on Slashdot that has posted thus far has given any real credentials to back-up their claims of having enough education and training to diagnose somebody with a pyschological disorder.
That's not how you stated it. You said, "Nobody here is a certified psychologist". That's a lot stronger that how you've rephrased it.
The problem is that people can take 500 different medical conditions and 'believe' they can connect a person to any one of them using their completely untrained observations.
Again, he wasn't making a medical diagnosis. He believes that the guy is a sociopath. It's opinion, not fact.
This does not make them either true or insightful
It wasn't modded "insightful". It's +5 Interesting, with 100% Interesting, and NO insightful moderation. An opinion can be interesting even if it is not factual, or you don't agree with it. In this case, people found the comment interesting. This does not mean that it revealed truth to them or that they even agreed with it. It just caught their eye.
This is what I meant by 'talking out of his ass'.
Again, talking out your ass is not backing up your opinions with the information that made you arrive at that opinion. The poster states the information, and is therefore not talking out his ass.
None of the above information I have posted is an opinion.
I was going to let this go until I read this line. If you comment contained only facts, I would not be able to dispute them, which I did, and therefore your comment is not completely factual.

--
Show me on the doll where his noodly appendage touched you.
Re:Sociopaths by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-17 14:15 · Score: 0

What makes you think a psychologist is any better in valuing others psyche than Joe Average? Do you have any idea how far off that stuff was back in the sixties? Is there some reason to believe that it has really developed since?
Re:Sociopaths by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-17 14:32 · Score: 0

I can't imagine anyone that wasn't a true sociopath being able to so calmly answer this unprompted interview, do so on video (without advance notice as well) and not even break a sweat.

We don't call those people sociopaths, we call them managers.
Re:Sociopaths by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-17 16:22 · Score: 0

Its true. I doubt many have read Mask of Sanity by Cleckley, but this fella matches what one calls a spychopath/sociopath dead on.

My benchmark by trompete · 2004-03-17 04:10 · Score: 1, Informative

My computer has a rating of about 12,000 for the following specs: P4 HT 3.06 GHZ 1 GB RAM @ 800 MHZ FSB ATI 9600 XT Graphics Card Western Digital SATA 160 GB I've seen computers with 15000 before, but they had Athlon FXs and/or Radeon 9800 Pro cards.

--
More than enough BS

Re:My benchmark by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-17 04:15 · Score: 0

psst:

<? function a() { echo 'all work and no play makes jack a dull boy '; a(); } ?>

should be

<? function a() { echo 'all work and no play makes jack a dull boy '; } a(); ?>

Or are you trying to make a joke with your infinite recursion?
Re:My benchmark by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-17 04:16 · Score: 1, Funny

You must get all the ladies.
Re:My benchmark by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-17 04:18 · Score: 0

You are probably thinking about 3dmark2001...
Re:My benchmark by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-17 04:18 · Score: 0

If you knew what movie he was referring to you wouldn't be asking that question.
Re:My benchmark by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-17 04:18 · Score: 0

Or are you trying to make a joke with your infinite recursion?

Well DUH! Gee I wonder; do you think?!

Go rent The Shining and get back to us.
Re:My benchmark by Tweaker_Phreaker · 2004-03-17 04:21 · Score: 5, Informative

You seem to be confusing 3DMark03 with 3DMark01. The system you described would be lucky to get '5000' in 3DMark03.
Re:My benchmark by trompete · 2004-03-17 04:22 · Score: 1

Maybe I am. It's early, and I haven't had much coffee yet :)

--
More than enough BS
Re:My benchmark by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-17 04:56 · Score: 0

While trying to make yourself look intelligent, you entirely missed the point of the joke.
But I suppose you're far too intelligent to stoop to something as lowly and infantile as laughing.
Re:My benchmark by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-17 05:12 · Score: 0

My system gets a rating of 19,576. On my imagined personal and totally undescript scale.
Re:My benchmark by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-17 05:49 · Score: 0

As somebody else already stated, those are probably 2001 scores... and you should have better numbers than that. I have a 2.6GHz P4 on an ABIT IT7 MAX with a GF4 Ti4600 card that was comfortably in the 13,000's, with a SiSoft Sandra sustained RAM throughput rating of 5.5GB/sec...
Re:My benchmark by JabberWokky · 2004-03-17 05:50 · Score: 2, Interesting

Which lines up with what it sounds like to me:
This guy sells computers and knows nothing about what he's doing. He includes logos, reads the trades and doesn't really understand the business nor the hardware he's selling.
I doubt a scam, honestly. I'm pretty convinced this is a case of a guy who doesn't know what he's talking about spinning everything to the best that he can. A guy who thinks he's good at sales and knows computers.
He probably sells quite a few systems, and the equally ignorant customers are pleased with what they get.
--
Evan

--
"$30 for the One True Ring. $10 each additional ring!" -- JRR "Bob" Tolkien
Re:My benchmark by leifm · 2004-03-17 06:20 · Score: 1

I had an experience with a similar type of operation that was based in Columbus Ohio, called Explorer Micro. My girlfriend's kids needed just a basic PC, enough to run Messenger/Aim and play MP3s. I googled around, found these boxes for $199 + shipping. Figured that works for me, ordered, then after the fact discover they have a customer satisfaction rating from hell, legal problems with Microsoft, etc. I placed the order on a Sunday, box arrived on Thursday and it was exactly as described. Ordered another one from them about 3 months later, they took a damn month to get it out, I called like 50 times, each time it was on the floor being built, in the box, UPS almost there, etc...

At any rate I guess my point is there are probably quite a few shady/shitty whitebox makers out there, so you gotta watch your step, sometimes even if you have prior experience with one.

--

"Windows Me offers tremendous reliability and stability improvements..." -- Paul Thurott
Re:My benchmark by GoneGaryT · 2004-03-17 06:49 · Score: 2, Interesting

That's right. I get about 5400 from an AMD 64 3200+, 1Gb Crucial RAM, AOpen FX5900, RAID0 Seagate SATA. But all these benchmark numbers are questionable. I mean, you start tuning for the benchmark, not for the overall experience.
My 5400 benchmark is only obtained at the expense of switching off AA and AF, so the edge rendering quality is shit. Who seriously uses it like that? I use AA x4 and AF x 4 normally, the 3DMark03 benchmark comes down to about 2800, it might drop to 3fps a couple of times (Nature), but the Wings of Anger section is absolutely stunning, with rates peaking in the 300+fps range.
So what gives? I've seen the 10000+ scores posted and think "Bet it's totally unbearable to watch".
Obviously I just don't get it!
Re:My benchmark by JabberWokky · 2004-03-17 07:17 · Score: 1

Yep, I'm not in any way saying that you should buy from this guy. I just have a feeling that he's a (as you put it) "shady/shitty whitebox maker", but he firmly falls on the shitty rather than shady side. He probably believes he's making great deals. He also, like most single employee businesses, probably has trouble delivering, either through procrastination, poor time skills or simply being inept.
--
Evan "Never attribute to malice that which can be explained through simple stupidity"

--
"$30 for the One True Ring. $10 each additional ring!" -- JRR "Bob" Tolkien
Re:My benchmark by cojsl · 2004-03-18 10:34 · Score: 1

I quoted "3DdMark03" directly from his site here: Oooooh, sorry, Michael's site is down.....

The moral of this story... by Schlemphfer · 2004-03-17 04:11 · Score: 5, Funny

Never buy a computer from some guy named Michael. You're better off buying a Dell. Oh, wait.

--
I'm generally "Interesting," "Insightful," and even "Funny" here. What the hell happens to me at parties?

Re:The moral of this story... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-17 04:14 · Score: 0

An error occured while loading http://www.tomshardware.com/column/20040317/too_go od_to_be_true-07.html:

Timeout on server
Connection was to www.tomshardware.com at port 80

For a hardware company, their server isn't holding up so well.
Re:The moral of this story... by ThePretender · 2004-03-17 04:26 · Score: 1

But didn't he step down as CEO?

Although he retained some of his titles, so I guess you are still correct :)
Re:The moral of this story... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-17 04:28 · Score: 0

No, the moral of the story is never believe anything ever posted on the Internet by guys named Michael. timothy's: OK, but michael's: no way!
Re:The moral of this story... by Lars+T. · 2004-03-17 05:15 · Score: 1

Maybe Mike's moonlighting?

--
Lars T.
To the guy who modded me down from perfect to terrible Karma - Apple haters still suck
Re:The moral of this story... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-17 09:58 · Score: 0

i like your sig
Re:The moral of this story... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-17 10:21 · Score: 0

And if Toms Hardware was a hardware company, you might have a point.

I know... by lukewarmfusion · 2004-03-17 04:12 · Score: 4, Funny

Michael must have come from the future, with his Windows XP 2004 and currently non-existant hardware! I bet you could haggle with him and get next year's Super Bowl winner, too.

Re:I know... by Bobulusman · 2004-03-17 04:37 · Score: 4, Interesting

I liked this part of his FAQ:

Q: When a client says "How can your systems be instant?"

A: Simply, because most operations that occur on other systems take time to load or render. We eliminated the so called "wait-time" a few years ago with inventing our TXK modeling for our Hard Drive systems. Where many systems today are built with just the "fastest" processor, we dive deeper into incorporating the true components that allow every application you run, to run at the fastest speed possible.

Bizarre.

--
Cogito ergo sum in Slashdot.
Re:I know... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-17 04:38 · Score: 0

He is the second coming of John Titor...
Re:I know... by darth_MALL · 2004-03-17 04:54 · Score: 1

He sounds like his bullsh1t is well rehearsed. I'll bet he's had to learn that to avoid a black eye on a few occasions. If Tom's is willing to go to these lengths to find this guy just for an article, I would think it isn't a challenge to find him when you're pissed and out $2000. I'm surprised Michael didn't have a bodyguard.
Re:I know... by apt142 · 2004-03-17 05:00 · Score: 1

Maybe his business works like this: 1. Advertise great computer 2. Wait 10 years until said computer exists 3. Deliver 4. Profit!!! And no, I didn't just post this to do the 1,2,3.. Profit!!. Although, it was fun.

--
Star Pirates
Re:I know... by Maestro4k · 2004-03-17 05:05 · Score: 1
- Michael must have come from the future, with his Windows XP 2004 and currently non-existant hardware! I bet you could haggle with him and get next year's Super Bowl winner, too.
Hey wait, this was a Star Trek Voyager episode, but wasn't Michael supposed to have started the whole PC business with his stolen time ship? Ooops, guess he didn't get the final draft of the script...
Re:I know... by james_bray · 2004-03-17 05:14 · Score: 1

Perhaps he's a Terminator?

--
http://www.reeb.freeserve.co.uk
Re:I know... by LilMikey · 2004-03-17 06:04 · Score: 2, Funny

I bet you could haggle with him and get next year's Super Bowl winner, too.

Screw that... can he give us next year's halftime show?

--
LilMikey.com... I'll stop doing it when you sto
Re:I know... by red+floyd · 2004-03-17 06:18 · Score: 1

He did have one, but Darl lured him away with SCOX stock options.

--
The only reason we have the rights we have is that people just like us died to gain those rights. -- Cheerio Boy
Re:I know... by tvh2k · 2004-03-17 11:22 · Score: 1

I'm surprised Michael didn't have a bodyguard.

I'd bet he will soon, now that thousands of slashdotters are coming after him.
Re:I know... by Lord_Dweomer · 2004-03-17 20:10 · Score: 1

Wow, and you techies accuse us marketing people of using buzzwords!

--
Buy Steampunk Clothing Online!

Totally Awesome Computers by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-17 04:12 · Score: 2, Informative

"SuperDell" Schanze makes similar claims, offering $1000 to anyone who can build or buy a faster computer. http://www.totallyawesomecomputers.com/

Re:Totally Awesome Computers by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-17 05:11 · Score: 1, Informative

You know, Totally Awesome Computers was the first thing I thought of as soon as I saw the article... at least they have physical stores you can walk in, but the guy is pretty crazy. They give you the runaround if you try and show them a better system.

I'd be careful about tangling with Super Dell. He seems to be a man on the edge. I listened to a scary radio stunt one morning involving Super Dell. I guess Super Dell has said some things that offended Native Americans. On the radio show, one of the DJ's went to Super Dell's house dressed as an Indian and did Indian chants outside. Super Dell came outside (decked out in camouflage and face paint) with a gun and had two rottweilers at his side. Luckily, the police arrived quickly. All of this prompted people who have had run-ins with Super Dell to call the station and tell about their experiences. I don't know if a lot the stories are true, but some sounded so bizarre that I don't think people could have made them up.

See the following:
http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249, 590039188,00 .html
http://www.sltrib.com/2003/Oct/10172003/bus iness/b usiness.asp
http://www.superdellsucks.com/index.h tml
Re:Totally Awesome Computers by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-17 05:32 · Score: 0

Although an annoying pitch man here in Utah I will say that at the least they do have a bunch of well marked physical locations and do have a decent reputation as far as customer support. Can't really comment on his systems.
Re:Totally Awesome Computers by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-17 07:16 · Score: 0

Schanze is very different from this guy. Both are obnoxious, but Super Dell at least has real businesses that sell real computers that really work. I can't stand the man and won't ever buy a computer from him, but I know a lot of people who swear by his computers.
Plus, I think the offer is $1000 to anyone who can build or buy a faster computer for less money. Depending on how he prices his machines, I can see that being a legitimate claim.

Tom, Micheal? by Enze6997 · 2004-03-17 04:12 · Score: 5, Funny

I am Jack's complete lack of surprise.

Re:Tom, Micheal? by mrloafbot · 2004-03-17 04:45 · Score: 1

Nice Fight Club reference. Read, more, NOW -Damian
Re:Tom, Micheal? by Hektor_Troy · 2004-03-17 05:10 · Score: 1

Good one ... Sir.

--
We do not live in the 21st century. We live in the 20 second century.

Michael's Computers investigates Tom's Hardware by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-17 04:12 · Score: 4, Funny

Michael found that Tom's the stories are often riddled with errors and false claims that favour their advertisers.

Re:Michael's Computers investigates Tom's Hardware by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-17 04:49 · Score: 3, Funny

Their current advertiser appears to be a certain '[an error occurred while processing this directive]' - any idea what they sell? Whatever it is, I want to buy!

Nice one, Slashdot! Kill the adservers, so I can read the article without annoying interruptions! :-)
Re:Michael's Computers investigates Tom's Hardware by dealsites · 2004-03-17 04:49 · Score: 1

Check this slashdot post for other fair and balanced review sites...

--
Real-time deal updates from many major sources

Welcome to the internet... by 2MuchC0ffeeMan · 2004-03-17 04:13 · Score: 2, Insightful

sadly, this guy does what everyone else does, takes advantage of stupid people to make money.

it's basically the best way to make money, next to taking advantage of lonely guys (pornsites, strippers) and taking advantage of lazy people (remote control, clapper)

--
Runnin' On Empty .... I'm Still Alive

Re:Welcome to the internet... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-17 04:20 · Score: 0

Taking money off of stupid people is a fine idea!
Re:Welcome to the internet... by MooseByte · 2004-03-17 04:24 · Score: 5, Funny

"it's basically the best way to make money, next to taking advantage of lonely guys (pornsites, strippers) and taking advantage of lazy people (remote control, clapper)"
Tell me about it! I made an absolute fortune off my clapper-controlled porn site!

Which also finally answered the rhetorical question, "What is the sound of one hand clapping?"
Re:Welcome to the internet... by enjo13 · 2004-03-17 04:30 · Score: 5, Insightful

[quote]it's basically the best way to make money, next to taking advantage of lonely guys (pornsites, strippers) and taking advantage of lazy people (remote control, clapper[/quote]

Uhm, isn't the point to provide something useful for people (creating value for them)? So strippers, pornsites, remote controls, and the clapper don't take advantage of people.. they simple provide a good or service that people find valuable.

Scamming people is a whole different story.. This guy is a scammer, he doesn't appear to even have a PRODUCT.

--
Turn s60 photos into awesome videos with mScrapbook for all S60 3rd edition phones!
Re:Welcome to the internet... by BJH · 2004-03-17 04:38 · Score: 4, Funny

That's easy: FAPFAPFAPFAPFAPFAPFAP...

Oh, you said clapping. Sorry, I don't know.
Re:Welcome to the internet... by Prince+Vegeta+SSJ4 · 2004-03-17 04:55 · Score: 1

well 'The Claps' and pornstars probably do go together
Re:Welcome to the internet... by Maestro4k · 2004-03-17 05:13 · Score: 1
- sadly, this guy does what everyone else does, takes advantage of stupid people to make money.
  it's basically the best way to make money, next to taking advantage of lonely guys (pornsites, strippers) and taking advantage of lazy people (remote control, clapper)
Taking advantage of stupid people to make money seems to underlie all of commerce nowadays, it's quite a bit different that what Michael appears to be doing. (I'm going to stay non-committal just to play it safe, hut I will say I wouldn't buy a computer from him.)
In this case it appears Michael is possibly:
1. Taking people's money and never sending them the computers they were purchasing with that money. This would be called fraud and theft.
2. Taking people's money for a computer and sending them something that does not have the same specs/hardware/etc. as what his website claims. This is also fraud, but would likely fall more into breach of contract.
All the stuff you mention may take advantage of people (lonliness, laziness, couch potato-ness) but the key difference is they actually provide the service or item they advertise and it's the same as what they advertise. Especially from a legal standpoint that's a huge difference, you can't sue someone (OK in the US you probably can, but winning is another store) just because they convinced you buy a clapper because you didn't want to get up to turn your lava lamp on and off. Now if they sent you a extension cord that did nothing when you clapped instead you'd have a strong case.
Re:Welcome to the internet... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-17 05:21 · Score: 1, Insightful

sadly, this guy does what everyone else does, takes advantage of stupid people to make money.

So?

it's basically the best way to make money,

Best by whose values? I don't think the way to make the most money is automatically the best way to make money!
Re:Welcome to the internet... by BroncoInCalifornia · 2004-03-17 07:07 · Score: 1

Where is the law enforcement here. This guy commits blatant fraud for years. But the law enforcement folks have not made it out of the donut shop.

--
Religion is the main cause of atheism.
Re:Welcome to the internet... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-17 11:27 · Score: 0

a Results 1 - 10 of about 3,400,000,000. Search took 0.13 seconds
b Results 1 - 10 of about 358,000,000. Search took 0.24 seconds
c Results 1 - 10 of about 490,000,000. Search took 0.15 seconds
d Results 1 - 10 of about 601,000,000. Search took 0.15 seconds
e Results 1 - 10 of about 830,000,000. Search took 0.14 seconds
f Results 1 - 10 of about 256,000,000. Search took 0.15 seconds
g Results 1 - 10 of about 218,000,000. Search took 0.14 seconds
h Results 1 - 10 of about 236,000,000. Search took 0.12 seconds
i Results 1 - 10 of about 1,260,000,000. Search took 0.12 seconds
j Results 1 - 10 of about 223,000,000. Search took 0.13 seconds
k Results 1 - 10 of about 200,000,000. Search took 0.26 seconds
l Results 1 - 10 of about 517,000,000. Search took 0.14 seconds
m Results 1 - 10 of about 420,000,000. Search took 0.26 seconds
n Results 1 - 10 of about 369,000,000. Search took 0.21 seconds
o Results 1 - 10 of about 404,000,000. Search took 0.18 seconds
p Results 1 - 10 of about 289,000,000. Search took 0.21 seconds
q Results 1 - 10 of about 132,000,000. Search took 0.18 seconds
r Results 1 - 10 of about 276,000,000. Search took 0.23 seconds
s Results 1 - 10 of about 683,000,000. Search took 0.21 seconds
t Results 1 - 10 of about 608,000,000. Search took 0.15 seconds
u Results 1 - 10 of about 209,000,000. Search took 0.13 seconds
v Results 1 - 10 of about 263,000,000. Search took 0.14 seconds
w Results 1 - 10 of about 271,000,000. Search took 0.15 seconds
x Results 1 - 10 of about 332,000,000. Search took 0.21 seconds
y Results 1 - 10 of about 371,000,000. Search took 0.12 seconds
z Results 1 - 10 of about 176,000,000. Search took 0.18 seconds

That's what I call a fan! by pjt33 · 2004-03-17 04:14 · Score: 5, Interesting

0.19 dB? A ticking watch is about 20dB, and it's a log scale.

Re:That's what I call a fan! by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-17 04:18 · Score: 0

It's fanless dope!
Re:That's what I call a fan! by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-17 04:24 · Score: 0

Even if it's fanless, it still has a hard disk. Just the thermal related noise would exceed .19 dB. This theoretical computer so silent I can't begin imagine all the things that are louder.
--
Not again, I just responded to flamebait.
Re:That's what I call a fan! by b0nes · 2004-03-17 04:30 · Score: 1

what is this thing you call a "ticking" watch?

--
simple is as simple does.
Re:That's what I call a fan! by Gumshoe · 2004-03-17 04:35 · Score: 2, Informative

In the interview he claims to have worked for Cryotech and suggests that he uses cryogenics instead of air cooling. There are no fans in other words. I'm still calling shenanigins though.
Re:That's what I call a fan! by OgGreeb · 2004-03-17 04:41 · Score: 5, Interesting

The sales blurb for the "Michaels MX8" says "Now with 5.1, 6.1 and 7.1 Surround sound at 180dB!"

The circa 1950's Chrysler civil defense siren , the world's loudest, peaks at 138dB. It can be heard piercingly at five miles distance. 180dB would be on the order of a small earthquake.

--
-- Gary Goldberg KA3ZYW 301/249-6501 AIM:OgGreeb Digital Marketing Inc., Bowie, MD //www.digimark.net/
Re:That's what I call a fan! by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-17 04:50 · Score: 0

147dB is the volume of the Space Shuttle Main Engine.

180dB would simply liquify you.
Re:That's what I call a fan! by SmackCrackandPot · 2004-03-17 04:51 · Score: 1

A ticking watch is about 20dB, and it's a log scale.

How much is that in dollars? I have a broken watch and it's gold plated. Can we exchange?
Re:That's what I call a fan! by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-17 04:55 · Score: 0

0.19 dB? A ticking watch is about 20dB, and it's a log scale.
Powered on, or off?
Re:That's what I call a fan! by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-17 04:57 · Score: 1, Funny

I believe the 0.19 dB claim.

Does a tree make any noise when it falls in the forest and nobody's there to listen?.

In fact I think it's pretty loud for a non existant entity.
Re:That's what I call a fan! by B5_geek · 2004-03-17 05:12 · Score: 4, Interesting

I think he used the same tool to measure that I did as a kid.

I bought an SPL meter from Radio Shack so I could test how loud my car stereo got. The needle on the meter went to a max of 130Db. I was able to bury the needle on several occasions.

Considering the evidence that you have quoted there is no doubt in my mind that the meter was worthless.

My point: maybe he just has shitty testing equipment?

--
"The price good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." ~Plato (427-347 BC)
Re:That's what I call a fan! by black_widow · 2004-03-17 05:15 · Score: 5, Informative

194 decibels, A-weighted, is equivalent to the saturn 5 rocket or 50lbs of TNT detonated 10 feet away.

194 decibels (RMS) sound-pressure-level approaches the atmospheric pressure level.

With an RMS value of 194 decibels, the peak SPL would modulate the atmospheric value entirely. That would make it the loudest possible...

194 Maximum possible (from atmospheric 14.7psi down to 0psi)
177 Record for car audio!
170 Shotgun blast up close
160 Perforation of eardrum
140 Jet Aircraft Taking Off
120 Human Threshold of Pain - 1 watt/sq. meter
120 Loud Rock Concert
110 Moderate rock concert, dance club
100 Motorcycle
-- extended listening above 85-90dB leads to hearing loss --
90 Lawnmower, loud home stereo
85 Jackhammer at 15 meters (50 feet)
80 Moderate home stereo, ringing telephone
75 Average City Street
70 Freeway traffic, TV audio
60 Normal Conversation
50 Large office background noise
40 Quiet office or residential area
30 Whisper at 3 meters (10 feet), Very soft music
20 "Silent" TV Studio, Whisper at 1 meter, Quiet living room
10 Soft rustling of leaves
0 Human threshold of hearing (youths)
(table from http://www.geocities.com/rf-man/db.html )
Re:That's what I call a fan! by Sumocide · 2004-03-17 05:15 · Score: 1

Yes, these computers are very special. Even on the first look the photoshopped flare on the pictures tells you "I'm a special PC".
Re:That's what I call a fan! by Pakaran2 · 2004-03-17 05:18 · Score: 1

A jet engine with full afterburners could just about do it, but you'd get sucked in or toasted before you heard 180 dB.
Re:That's what I call a fan! by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-17 05:45 · Score: 0

Ah, but SPL is typically measured at a distance of 1 meter. However, nothing in that sales blurb mentions how the SPL was measured. SPL drops by 6dB every time the distance is doubled. So, maybe if he measures the speakers at a distance of 1 nanometer, he could come up with 180dB....though I'm not sure what kind of surround effect you'd be able to get that close to the speakers.
Re:That's what I call a fan! by thehickcoder · 2004-03-17 05:54 · Score: 1

177 Record for car audio!

Sounds intresting. Do you have a link?
Re:That's what I call a fan! by xtermz · 2004-03-17 05:56 · Score: 1

120 Loud Rock Concert.... ....any my home stereo...

no wonder my neighbor calls the cops on me...

--

I lost my concept of community when my community lost all concept of me.
Re:That's what I call a fan! by mytec · 2004-03-17 05:57 · Score: 5, Funny

With an RMS value of 194 decibels

Wow, RMS gets pretty loud ranting about GNU. :-)
Re:That's what I call a fan! by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-17 06:01 · Score: 1, Interesting

0 Human threshold of hearing (youths)

Youths only?

I wonder where on that scale a cat walking on carpet (at 3-4 meters) would be?

I have no problem (at 30) with hearing my cat walking in the next room (carpeted floor.) It really freaked my wife out the first few times when he'd walk into the room at night, and I'd call him to jump up to sleep with us (he always waited for an invitation.) On a couple of occasions, she'd hear something which she thought was him, and call him, and I'd tell her that he was in the living room.

Until I got married, I thought everybody could do this.
Re:That's what I call a fan! by adnoid · 2004-03-17 06:07 · Score: 2, Informative

As someone in the sound reproduction industry I can say that you're pretty much right. The spec for the siren you cite is 138 dB at 100 feet. Conventional speakers are measured at 1 meter with 1 watt of input and are in the 90 range, generally. The sound pressure level of that siren at 1 meter would be 172 dB (#include various_reasonable_assumptions.h)

For reference, 120 dB is the threshold of physical pain and equivalent to standing next to the engine of a jet transport at takeoff thrust. Beyond that organ damage begins.

What a load of crap.

--
No sig
Re:That's what I call a fan! by ChrisMaple · 2004-03-17 06:08 · Score: 1

Sorry, but in the "near field" the SPL does not fall off much with distance. Near field means approximately less than half a radian, 5 feet at 20 Hz or 1/16th inch at 20 kHz: 1.5 m and 1.5 mm respectively.

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Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
Re:That's what I call a fan! by sharkey · 2004-03-17 06:13 · Score: 5, Funny
You missed:
- 209 Mother-in-Law
--

--
"Outlook not so good." That magic 8-ball knows everything! I'll ask about Exchange Server next.
Re:That's what I call a fan! by Have+Blue · 2004-03-17 06:20 · Score: 1

Wouldn't it be possible to create a (monentary) >194 decibel sound by increasing the atmosphere to more than 29.4 psi? Or does that just count as a single shockwave with no decibel value?
Re:That's what I call a fan! by nolife · 2004-03-17 06:22 · Score: 2, Informative

Google for spl world record
I did not specifically find the quoted 177 but a few in the mid 170's.. Many of the google links describe this sport and the background.

--
Bad boys rape our young girls but Violet gives willingly.
Re:That's what I call a fan! by Soul-Burn666 · 2004-03-17 06:38 · Score: 2, Informative

According to the Guinness record, the loudest scream was 129 decibels.

--
^_^
Re:That's what I call a fan! by Jeremy+Erwin · 2004-03-17 06:40 · Score: 1

Apparently, that siren was capable of 189 db, measured at the "throat".

CHOPPED AIR: The world's loudest siren. "We guarantee 138 db at 100 ft. from throat", he said. "Engine is 180 hp Chrysler V-8 industrial. The American Blower Corp. supplied the parts for the compressor and Chrysler machined it. We guarantee 189 db at the throat. We guarantee a radius of 2 miles (4 mile radius in favorable conditions)". Siren weighs 8,000 lbs and costs $5,500.

Quoted from article in THE NEW YORKER, September 20, 1952.

Source
Re:That's what I call a fan! by PYves · 2004-03-17 06:47 · Score: 2, Funny

120 Human Threshold of Pain - 1 watt/sq. meter
120 Loud Rock Concert

simple math shows that:
Loud Rock Concert = Human Treshold of Pain

I can name several bands that surpass my treshold of pain, but it's not really decibel-related.
Re:That's what I call a fan! by Theaetetus · 2004-03-17 06:53 · Score: 1

Well, yes and no... Yes, you could create a pulse-type shock wave that only had positive (compression) components higher than 29.4 psi. It would be like one-half of a square wave, without the corresponding other half. Speaker testing for phase regularly does this with a clicker that creates a low-voltage DC pulse so that the cones only go out, or only go in - so that you can easily tell whether you've got things wired up properly.
If you had a super-high efficiency speaker, with lots of protection on the cone, you could "click" it higher than 194 dB SPL. However, it wouldn't really be thought of as 'sound' because it would be a momentary pulse, with no rarification component.
So, yes, and no.
-T
Re:That's what I call a fan! by hetta · 2004-03-17 07:33 · Score: 2, Funny

See, you have 2 speakers at 90 dB each, that's 180 dB, right?

--
-- Henriette's herbal -
Re:That's what I call a fan! by pjt33 · 2004-03-17 07:46 · Score: 1

Can't find the details, but IIRC to qualify for that record the microphone has to be a certain distance (order of 10m) from the screamer.
Re:That's what I call a fan! by AndrewRUK · 2004-03-17 08:00 · Score: 2, Informative

Wrong, dB is a logarithmic scale, a doubling in power is equivalent to an increase of 3dB (*10 = +10dB) so two speakers at 90dB would make 93dB.
Re:That's what I call a fan! by Paradise+Pete · 2004-03-17 08:04 · Score: 1

30 Whisper at 3 meters (10 feet), Very soft music
20 "Silent" TV Studio, Whisper at 1 meter, Quiet living room
So a whisper at one meter is quieter than a whisper at three meters?
Re:That's what I call a fan! by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-17 08:08 · Score: 1, Funny

See, you have 2 speakers at 90 dB each, that's 180 dB, right?
Yeah. And with 200 you'd have 18,000dB and could blow up the planet.
Re:That's what I call a fan! by Abcd1234 · 2004-03-17 08:40 · Score: 1

Presumably they mean a whisper you can just hear. ie, if you're whispering to someone 3 meters away, it's 30 dB. A whisper to someone 1 meter away is 20 dB.
Re:That's what I call a fan! by 1029 · 2004-03-17 09:32 · Score: 1

I'd have to put this HS420 Series blade server somewhere between "120 Human Threshold of Pain" and "160 Perforation of eardrum". Seriously now, for how much this damned beast of server cost us, why couldn't it come with semi-quiet fans?!?

I can't wait until we get this thing shipped off to the colo...

--
- I love animals. I try to eat at least one a day.
Re:That's what I call a fan! by Gleng · 2004-03-17 09:36 · Score: 1

I've seen Motorhead a couple of times, and I have to say that it's still possible to hear some loud noises over the blaring tinnitus.

--
"Proudly Posting Without Reading The Article"
Re:That's what I call a fan! by Paradise+Pete · 2004-03-17 09:38 · Score: 1

Presumably they mean a whisper you can just hear. ie, if you're whispering to someone 3 meters away, it's 30 dB. A whisper to someone 1 meter away is 20 dB.
So you mean a whisper that's 30 dB at the source? And if I'm more than three meters away I can't hear that?
Re:That's what I call a fan! by ross.w · 2004-03-17 09:51 · Score: 1

On the other hand if we create an inverse tachyon beam and modulate it with their shield phasing, we may be able to...

I'll shutup now

--
If my call is important, why am I talking to a recording?
Re:That's what I call a fan! by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-17 10:52 · Score: 0

Maybe he meant 0.19 B, as in 19 dB? At any rate, after all the false advertising I've seen on pricewatch.com, this is just not that shocking to me.
Re:That's what I call a fan! by SnappleMaster · 2004-03-17 12:21 · Score: 1

That would be so cool. Of course running out to the liquid nitrogen store every month or whatever might get old.

--
Be happy. Nothing else matters.
Re:That's what I call a fan! by SnappleMaster · 2004-03-17 12:26 · Score: 1

AMD64 boxes are exactly like that. Nice little package but they sound like a freaking 747. I have one here at work. But when I say "here" I mean "stuffed in the corner of some poor bastard's test lab" because it's way too loud to keep in my office. RDP is handy for all kinds of things...

--
Be happy. Nothing else matters.
Re:That's what I call a fan! by Gumshoe · 2004-03-17 12:58 · Score: 1

Exactly. It's a good idea in principle -- creating an environment where the hardware can run to it's best capabilities, to paraphrase this Michael character -- but the practicality of it is something else. If his system was to work, it would require a massive change in the economy of the computer industry. Selling computers via paypal is one thing but I don't see anywhere that would allow me to keep this cryogenic system running.

I don't want to think about this too hard because, as I've suggested, this is pure snake oil, IMO.
Re:That's what I call a fan! by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-17 14:26 · Score: 0

194 Maximum possible (from atmospheric 14.7psi down to 0psi)

For a sinewave, that is.
e.g. a square wave consisting of 0.1 units of 146psi and 0.9 units of 0psi would be even louder.
Re:That's what I call a fan! by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-17 15:19 · Score: 0

and how are you going to produce that?
Re:That's what I call a fan! by robfoo · 2004-03-17 17:05 · Score: 1

Holy shit! Someone tell Dubya!
I'd like to see a group of boy racers ('ricers') get charged with having Weapons of Mass Destruction..
Re:That's what I call a fan! by Yottabyte84 · 2004-03-17 20:25 · Score: 1

.19 B is 1.9 dB
Re:That's what I call a fan! by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-19 16:02 · Score: 0

Explosives, preferably nuclear.
Re:That's what I call a fan! by drinkypoo · 2004-03-19 16:46 · Score: 1

3dB is twice or half as loud as the neighboring step of 3dB, IIRC. Hence 130dB is less than one quarter (almost as little as one eighth) as loud as 138dB. Unless I'm wrong, which happens from time to time. See also: Trunk-thumpers and the neighbors who hate them

--
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"

Review doesnt go far enough by onyxruby · 2004-03-17 04:15 · Score: 5, Insightful

Its amazing how far something has to go for a business to be considered fraudulent. Is it possible to get warnings like this before they end up in court or handcuffs? If all of this investigation only garners a buyer beware warning, what does it take to get a do not buy warning? I can understand the aversion to calling out fraud, but THG can only build the credibility by taking a stand and telling people don't buy from these guys.

I'm not trying to be overly harsh on THG. I applaud them for being willing to investigate like they did, the industry can only benefit by removing fraudsters. A few bad mechanics have given most mechanics reputations that they don't deserve, and the computer industry needs to avoid this.

Review sites, remember that your job is as much about telling people what they should not buy as it is about what they should. How many people stopped respecting PC World (once upon a time highly respected) after they endorsed Windows Me?

Re:Review doesnt go far enough by rvw14 · 2004-03-17 04:19 · Score: 2, Funny

How many people stopped respecting PC World (once upon a time highly respected) after they endorsed Windows Me?
I have been using windows ME since 1986 and haven't had any prob l ;;sd2 e ;a$
Re:Review doesnt go far enough by Malc · 2004-03-17 04:20 · Score: 4, Insightful

Maybe THG is afraid of ending up in court themselves. Even if they are right, do they really want to spend their time and money when to most of us what they've stated is clear and good enough? This is really just a sad statement about the paranoid corporate climate and litigous nature of the modern American world.
Re:Review doesnt go far enough by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-17 04:22 · Score: 0

England has strict libel laws, you are not allowed to say bad things about people unless they are American or a member of the Royal Family.
Re:Review doesnt go far enough by CleverDan · 2004-03-17 04:26 · Score: 2, Interesting

THG most likely wanted to avoid anything like the petswarehouse.com fiasco.
Re:Review doesnt go far enough by TheRealFixer · 2004-03-17 04:26 · Score: 5, Interesting

It would be nice to see "businesses" like this shut down and the scam artist in handcuffs, but more often than not, people like him are VERY good at disappearing, relocating, and starting up the whole scam again.

I had a run-in with a retailer at a computer show some years ago who was substituting sub-standard parts and pre-loading Windows 98 on his boxes, advertising them as having Windows 98 included, and then not including the Win98 CD. When I purchased a computer from him for someone else, and then came across a problem with that PC that required the CD, I called to get a copy sent to me, and the retailer refused, said I had to pay $50 to get the CD. I realized quickly that this was a scam he was running, and no matter what, he would not give me the CD. I actually called the Microsoft Piracy Hotline (I've never done that since, and normally I would have just dropped it, but he made me irritated enough with his attitude) and they thanked me, and promised to go after him.

Next computer show a couple months later, same retailer is there, same scam, different "company" name and different location & phone number. These guys thrive on being mobile. They're like cockroaches. Shine the light on them, and they disappear for a little while, but they still come back.
Re:Review doesnt go far enough by onyxruby · 2004-03-17 04:29 · Score: 3, Interesting

Yes I was commenting on the sad state of affairs on such fear of lawsuits. This makes sense, I may not like it, but I understand it. My issue is that after everything their investigation turned up, they couldn't even say "don't buy here". I understand why they didn't claim the business practices fraud, they gave enough facts on that point for people to decide for themselves.

The lack of an outright fraud claim wasn't my issue though. The investigation was good, the story fell short at the end though. Again I ask my valid question, what does it take to get a do not buy recommendation from THG?
Re:Review doesnt go far enough by Jeff+DeMaagd · 2004-03-17 04:36 · Score: 1

How many people stopped respecting PC World (once upon a time highly respected) after they endorsed Windows Me?

Heck, PC World endorsed Pinnacle Studio 8, which is IMO even worse than Win ME. I really don't believe they've even used it. An early copy crashes about once per hour. Patched, it crashes once per evening, or crashes if you try to page through too many video clips at once. It crashes if you try to save or edit a video with hundreds of clips. The video encoding is dirt slow. This behavior is similar on several different computers I've tried.
Re:Review doesnt go far enough by DarkBlackFox · 2004-03-17 05:15 · Score: 3, Interesting

Furthermore, I'd like to have seen THG actually buy one of these alleged machines. That was the intention of the article, right? See if the products match the descriptions. If the author was talking face to face with Michael, why couldn't he order one of these machines right from him, or at least ask to see a demo? Rather than just tell people to fend for themselves based on what the reviewer discovered, why not go the final step and actually try to look at the products they are investigating? If they did not perform up to snuff (which is most likely), at least then they would have some hard, tangible evidence to flat out say "avoid these guys."
Re:Review doesnt go far enough by Cynikal · 2004-03-17 05:19 · Score: 1

wow '86?

i guess that was a step up from MSDos 2.0 [On April 2 1987, IBM officially introduces a new family of personal computers: the PS/2-series. Starting with the 30 series (8086 CPU)]
Re:Review doesnt go far enough by bwy · 2004-03-17 05:35 · Score: 1

It would be nice to see "businesses" like this shut down and the scam artist in handcuffs, but more often than not, people like him are VERY good at disappearing, relocating, and starting up the whole scam again.

Naw, guys like this are fine. It is people like Martha Stewart we need to be protected from. Thank God she'll be in jail! I've suffered the effects of that evil woman already (a bad experience with some homeware items that have her name on it) but this Michael guy, I got no gripe with him. His PC's sound fantastic! Everybody just wants to see a success story like Michael get shot down.
Re:Review doesnt go far enough by Tin+Foil+Hat · 2004-03-17 05:40 · Score: 3, Interesting

It would have been nice to see Tom's do some more follow-up. The article says that Gonzales claimed to have a store front just blocks away from the mail box location. I would have liked to see the author verify that claim, and if true, buy a computer and run benchmarks on it. At that point he would have all the information he needed to take a strong stand on whether or not this guy is a shyster. He might even have gathered enough information to present to a federal fraud investigator.

--
No matter how many of my rights are taken away, somehow I still don't feel safe. -Frigid Monkey
Re:Review doesnt go far enough by loraksus · 2004-03-17 05:42 · Score: 1

I find that .22 hollowpoints work wonders for eliminating roaches. Of course, how feasable this is really depends on where you live.

--
1q2w3e4r5t6y7u8i9o0pqawsedrftgthyjukilo;p'azsxdcfv gbhnjmk,l.;/
Re:Review doesnt go far enough by Yo+Grark · 2004-03-17 05:52 · Score: 1

So what would you recommend? I'm using Pinnacle Studio 8 currently and WOULD LOVE A RECOMMENDED REPLACEMENT. Thank you. Yo Grark

--
Canadian Bred with American Buttering
Re:Review doesnt go far enough by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-17 06:04 · Score: 0

how feasable this is really depends on where you live

Not to mention how big the roaches are. :o)
Re:Review doesnt go far enough by Eraser_ · 2004-03-17 06:11 · Score: 2, Interesting

There is a local store which has been here as long as I can remember. I went in there one day in my endevour to find gainful employment. I was first struck by the number of "certifications" on the wall, most of them looked like they had been printed out himself. The owner was yelling at the techs to "just make it work" when the tech said he had a failed HD, because he wasn't getting a new one, etc. I talked with him for a little while, wasn't impressed at all about this guy. I left, never to look back. Anytime someone asked me about the place I just told em to stear clear.

Fast forward 3 years, I am related a story by a coworker of their friend who went there to buy a PC. The computer came with no discs, no "windows authentic" sticker, etc. Had a minor problem with it, and the guy refused to fix it, and said it would be $200 for the windows CD. I had my boss relay to them that what that guy is doing is illegal, and that I hope they paid with a credit card.
Re:Review doesnt go far enough by red+floyd · 2004-03-17 06:22 · Score: 1

He was probably using PC-DOS 3.0. (Introduced with the AT).
DOS 3.3 was introduced with the PS/2 series.

--
The only reason we have the rights we have is that people just like us died to gain those rights. -- Cheerio Boy
Re:Review doesnt go far enough by nolife · 2004-03-17 06:25 · Score: 1

So you don't believe him?

--
Bad boys rape our young girls but Violet gives willingly.
Re:Review doesnt go far enough by nolife · 2004-03-17 06:42 · Score: 1

Have you been to a computer show since? Your police work had no effect.

In all honesty, I don't think I've ever seen a vendor at a computer show that did NOT operate similar to that. Although they normally don't claim it comes with an OS without a charge for the CD, it is common to mass install the OS for your verification and testing that the hardware actually works prior to leaving their table space. The result is the customer is very clear on what they are actually paying or not paying for and MS probably gets less then they should.

--
Bad boys rape our young girls but Violet gives willingly.
Re:Review doesnt go far enough by Jeremy+Erwin · 2004-03-17 06:47 · Score: 2, Insightful

Interesting.
1998: Computer doesn't come with a Windows 98 CD. Product is most likely counterfeit.
Today: Computer doesn't come with a Windows XP CD. Product is most likely genuine-- but if you want the CD, you might have to swing by Kazaa and grab an ISO...
Re:Review doesnt go far enough by yudan · 2004-03-17 08:07 · Score: 1

Cheer up! You actually don't have to worry about throwing him into jail. The post at slashdot has already made him notorious and his site is already down. This is the fast and also the very legal way to kick him out of the business.
What a pity that you didn't post your story on Slashdot last time!
Re:Review doesnt go far enough by plover · 2004-03-17 10:46 · Score: 2, Interesting

The result is the customer is very clear on what they are actually paying or not paying for and MS probably gets less then they should.
Except that's true only to a moderately computer-literate buyer.
There are many, many Joe Sixpacks who go to those shows just to buy the cheapest PC available so they can have a PC. They know nothing about the equipment, they may (or may not) have a technically adept friend who steered them towards these shows for a cheap PC, etc. They know that if they go to Best Buy, a PC will cost them $400, but if they go to a show they can get one for $200.
Joe Sixpack doesn't know anything about "pirated" copies of software. As far as he's concerned, he legitimately bought it because he gave the guy at the show $200. And the transactions typically aren't itemized; it's not like there is a receipt indicating he's paying $50 for the case, $50 for the hard drive, $50 for the mobo, and $50 for the CPU. So there isn't even the omission of a "Windows 98 - $33" line to tip him off that he received Windows without paying for it.
If you already know enough to ask questions like these, then yes, you already know you're getting more than what you're paying for. As you pointed out, both parties will nod and wink at each other when the "test software" remains on the hard drive. Neither party has an active interest in talking about the origins of this software -- so the booth vendor can unfairly compete on price with machines that have bundled legal copies of software, and the booth customer gets a computer full of software for dirt cheap.
While I think Microsoft is 'ethically challenged' in oh-so-many ways, it is still not appropriate for me to respond by making copies of their software in protest. If I think their software is overpriced; or if I think they are hiding API calls from me as a developer; or if I think they are predatorily acquiring competitors, I do have legal recourse through the court system. Acquiring an unlicensed copy of Windows claiming "stick it to da man for overcharging!" is not a form of protest -- it's a form of stealing.

--
John
Re:Review doesnt go far enough by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-17 11:43 · Score: 0

You've never met the roaches around here. They have their own .22s. Some have even moved up to 9mm.
Re:Review doesnt go far enough by SnappleMaster · 2004-03-17 12:34 · Score: 1

Why I can't find the "Too rational for slashdot" moderation option. ;)

--
Be happy. Nothing else matters.
Re:Review doesnt go far enough by fermion · 2004-03-17 13:30 · Score: 1

Just one of trivia. Back in the late 90's, the USPS made a rule that said you cannot list a drop box as a suite. The intent was to prevent just this type of behavior. Listing a drop box as suite is useful, especially when the real place of business is a residence or shared space, but I believe it is illigal.
So, if nothing else, he may be guilty of mail fraud. I can't find the memo. Maybe someone else remembers the rule.

--
"She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
Re:Review doesnt go far enough by rvw14 · 2004-03-17 15:07 · Score: 1

I figure since Michael's Computers have been in business since 1986, that must have been the year I started using ME.
Re:Review doesnt go far enough by IPFreely · 2004-03-18 03:24 · Score: 1

THG did exactly what they were supposed to do: Give you the reader enough information to make an informed decision. You apparently got enough information to believe Michaels was a fraud, so that means THD was successful.
It is not necessary for them to actually come out and scream "They are a Fraud!" or even "Beware". If you can come to that conclusion for yourself based on what THG does tell you, that is enough. And if you can't, then declaring it in the article probably wouldn't do much for you either.
It seems to me that this type of criticism is common in many areas, be it tech, history, politics or whatever. Someone covers "Just the facts" and leaves the almost obvious interpretation up to the reader. They are then blasted as biased the other way because they didn't actually come out and scream "Fraud". NO! They aren't biased. If they had screamed "Fraud" then they would be biased. The center allways appears biased when viewed from either side, sort of a poor mans "If you're not for us, then you're against us" attitude.

--
There is nothing so silly as other peoples traditions, and nothing so sacred as our own.
Re:Review doesnt go far enough by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-18 03:38 · Score: 0

I think THG was pretty clear in their presentation of facts. If there is any doubt still in your mind about what stand THG took in their review, you might need to have your head examined. What did you want them to say, "d00d michaels is a fr4ud!"? Would that have been "taking a stand"? I think the writers assumed that we have enough spare compute power in our heads to draw that conclusion fairly easily. You know, a "no-brainer"?

Re:Michael's Computers by Orgazmus · 2004-03-17 04:17 · Score: 0, Offtopic

That was a total overkill

--
The system had the verbosity of HTML combined with all the readability of compiled assembly viewed as bitmap images

Michael's Computers ?? by swapsn · 2004-03-17 04:18 · Score: 1

Shit.
For a moment there I thought they were investigating Michael Dell's computers :-))

Whoa. by tai_Dasher · 2004-03-17 04:18 · Score: 0

Thirteen minutes, and the site is already down? Is this the wrath of Michael?

--
"

Look out! by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-17 04:19 · Score: 0

Careful, Timothy -- Michael is liable to modbomb you for badmouthing his computers! Look for this story to hit -1 (100% Overrated) in the next 10 minutes.

(Y'know, I think I'll post this AC. Not that the editors don't know who you are anyway.)

So where can I actually buy a tricked out PC? by eww · 2004-03-17 04:20 · Score: 1

So where can I actually get the latest and best PC man can buy? What stores actually have parts the minute Intel/AMD/ATI/Nvidia have started shipping them? I know that it sometimes takes a while for the local PC store to get some of these items in.

Re:So where can I actually buy a tricked out PC? by Graelin · 2004-03-17 04:36 · Score: 4, Informative

Alienware comes to mind. Their machines are pretty cool. Lots of high-end equipment that is pretty to look at, but the prices are a touch high.

If you really want the uber game machine you probably want to build it yourself. Maximum performance doesn't ALWAYS have to cost you stability if you buy the right parts from the right vendors.

You're right about local stores, at least in my area, they are very delayed. I can usually order the latest online and get it in the mail before any local chains get it in stock. As far as I can tell, the local mom n' pop stores are always the most cautious to get the latest hardware. Try the gamer franchises, like EB Games. Best Buy, Circuit City, CrapUSA never have a good enough selection of products. (They might only sell PNY Nvidia cards, when you really want the Hercules.)
Re:So where can I actually buy a tricked out PC? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-17 04:58 · Score: 0

http://www.monarchcomputersystems.com/

Has a nice site to build systems using high quality parts. The prices are very good also.
Re:So where can I actually buy a tricked out PC? by Maestro4k · 2004-03-17 05:24 · Score: 1
- CrapUSA never have a good enough selection of products. (They might only sell PNY Nvidia cards, when you really want the Hercules.)
They also have a tendency to way overprice some items. I was needing an ATX power supply a while back and didn't want to wait for delivery so I checked them. They wanted $40 for a generic CompUSA branded one. I can get one online for $11 including shipping! In fact I can get a name brand one for no more than $20. For $40 I'd be expecting a super-quiet one myself.
On the other hand you can get some good deals with the rebates. Since the power supply was for my firewall/proxy router comp I looked at their home/small office routers to see if I could go that route cheaper. I got a Netgear one (wired, not wireless, but I didn't want wireless) for $50 with $30 in mail-in rebates. It only cost $10 more than the power supply and after the rebates it'll cost $20 less.
One last note, on that same router the paper and the sign on the shelf advertised "Regularly $59.99 - $10 instant rebate - $20 mail-in rebate - $10 mail-in rebate = $19.99". Fair enough so far, but the shelf label plainly said $49.99 for the normal price. There was no $10 instant rebate, that was just a crock. I didn't feel good or I'd have asked to see a manager since that isn't exactly legal. At least they don't ask me for my freaking street address anymore. Last time they did I refused (I was paying cash so they couldn't require it) and they didn't know what to do. They had to get a manager to show them how to bypass it. :)
Re:So where can I actually buy a tricked out PC? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-17 05:36 · Score: 0

Although, compared to the listed prices in the article, Alienwares actually run about equivalent - I got an Area-51m for around $2700 - and at least you know that you're going to get one delivered to your door eventually!
Re:So where can I actually buy a tricked out PC? by Graelin · 2004-03-17 05:36 · Score: 1

On the other hand you can get some good deals with the rebates...i>

That's a good point. Personally, I shy away from the rebates, or at least I don't count on them. The mail-in type typically take months to get back if at all.

I had a girlfriend who worked at CompUSA for a while. This was back when you mailed the rebates to the store you purchased the item in (has that changed?) They had huge problems because none of the employees wanted to process the rebates (it's pretty boring as you can imagine) so LOTS of customers never got their money. I think this has probably changed by now, most of the big retailers have national centers for processing now. But it still takes forever.
Re:So where can I actually buy a tricked out PC? by skiflyer · 2004-03-17 05:56 · Score: 1

They also have a tendency to way overprice some items. I was needing an ATX power supply a while back and didn't want to wait for delivery so I checked them. They wanted $40 for a generic CompUSA branded one. I can get one online for $11 including shipping! In fact I can get a name brand one for no more than $20. For $40 I'd be expecting a super-quiet one myself.

I can't say this is surprising, or that I'd hold it against them. You want an item which probably isn't a big seller for them, therefore high stocking costs. You also want an item which most purchasers probably can't afford to wait for... I would wonder how many people go to CompUSA/BestBuy/CircuitCity to purchase a power supply for a machine they're building, much more likely they're replacing one in a borked machine.... perfect time for a big markup. I'd say gouge, but given the convenience of no shipping on a power supply, it seems pretty fair to me.
Re:So where can I actually buy a tricked out PC? by ChrisMaple · 2004-03-17 06:24 · Score: 1

$40 for a good ATX power supply is nothing you should complain about. It's a great deal; look at all the parts in it and think about what happens if it fails. I shudder to think of the shortcuts that must be taken to get a PC power supply for $11 retail.
Nonetheless, CompUSA can be ripoff central; I've bought cables at Radio Shack for half what CompUSA charges.

--
Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
Re:So where can I actually buy a tricked out PC? by Tweaker_Phreaker · 2004-03-17 06:40 · Score: 2, Insightful

You're right about local stores, at least in my area, they are very delayed.

Well what do you expect. A small computer shop doesn't want to buy $500+ parts that are just going to sit on the shelves until they've lost half their value. It's simple economics: supply only what there's demand for.
Re:So where can I actually buy a tricked out PC? by Graelin · 2004-03-17 07:02 · Score: 1

I agree, where I live the customers just aren't there. I suspect that in larger and more dense cities there probably are smaller shops that do carry the cutting edge, since the customer base is large.
Re:So where can I actually buy a tricked out PC? by Gr8Apes · 2004-03-17 07:16 · Score: 1

Ahh, but they could at least advertise it as a special order. Most don't even show you what's there. They'd rather stock an extra TNT card that may sell, rather than a special order item that costs them nothing, and might make them some money on a mail order equivalent basis.

--
The cesspool just got a check and balance.
Re:So where can I actually buy a tricked out PC? by Amiga+Lover · 2004-03-17 07:24 · Score: 1

Another one is Liebermann Inc.. Top notch desktops and notebooks with the style and refinement slashdotters always comment that Apple has, without the problem of, oh, incompatibility with software people want to run, such as high end games.
Re:So where can I actually buy a tricked out PC? by paradesign · 2004-03-17 10:47 · Score: 1

L
These guys liquid cool and overclock it before shipping. They also f##k with XP so it runs "optimized". Dont know if theyre reputable, but they do make trick gear. Their displays look nice.
falcon northwest
These guys make KILLER boxes and from what ive read are quite reputable. Nothing fancy though, just the best parts available.
also, Alienware. But if you want a really good rig, build it yourself and save a few bucks, plus youll actually know what goes on inside your box. Nothing is more lame than some rich dude that buys the best, but has no clue whats inside. These people are the ones with "two gigahurts hard disks, and five twelve mega processors." Great boxes, stupid people.

--
I want 2D games back.
Re:So where can I actually buy a tricked out PC? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-17 15:44 · Score: 0

L These guys liquid cool and overclock it before shipping. They also f##k with XP so it runs "optimized". Dont know if theyre reputable, but they do make trick gear. Their displays look nice.
Read about these machines in Maximum PC recently. Mixed review. Performance and such was as promised, but some things that really turned me off, such as the piss-poor internal wiring job. (Gotta see the pic in the mag to see just how bad it is)
Re:So where can I actually buy a tricked out PC? by jred · 2004-03-18 11:22 · Score: 1

I was in the same spot, although I think mine was $50. They couldn't have been too worried about them not selling, they were stacked up all over the damn place.

I wouldn't have minded if it was a decent PSU. I kept having random problems with that PC until I replaced the PSU w/ an Antec.

--

jred
I'm not a mechanic but I play one in my garage...
Re:So where can I actually buy a tricked out PC? by jred · 2004-03-18 11:28 · Score: 1

Except it's *not* a good PSU. I bought a CompUSA PSU & had a bunch of random problems, a basically flaky PC. Replaced the PSU w/ an Antec & it's been rock-solid since.

--

jred
I'm not a mechanic but I play one in my garage...

article apparently removed by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-17 04:20 · Score: 0

As of 10:16 cst getting "contains no data" error. apparently this seems to have been removed. I doubt Tom's Hardware is subject to slashdot effect

Slashdotted, alternate mirror server here by Newtonian_p · 2004-03-17 04:21 · Score: 2, Informative

I can't believe it, their main server is slashdotted, you can still access their page at this address:
http://www20.tomshardware.com/

--

There are 2 kinds of people in this world: Those who write in decimal and those who don't

Re:Slashdotted, alternate mirror server here by Galuvian · 2004-03-17 04:29 · Score: 0

No luck here. Looks like we took that one out too.
Re:Slashdotted, alternate mirror server here by notanatheist · 2004-03-17 04:39 · Score: 1

Give them 15 minutes and they will probably be back. Tom's has plenty of server and surfing is just a tad slow right now because of /.
Re:Slashdotted, alternate mirror server here by MntlChaos · 2004-03-17 04:42 · Score: 1

I can't believe it, their main server is slashdotted, you can still access their page at this address:
http://www20.tomshardware.com/

Nope. /.ed too
Re:Slashdotted, alternate mirror server here by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-17 05:19 · Score: 0

THG gets slashdotted regularly, but this is actually the largest ever. Apparently everyone is fascinated by a soap opera.

J

My review of Tom's Hardare (read on)... by gosand · 2004-03-17 04:22 · Score: 4, Funny

Here is my review of Tom's Hardware. I think that they are extremely.... Next ...

First paragraph, first sentence

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Paragraph

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Paragraph

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Conclusion introduction

Conclusion body

Conclusion postscript

--

My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.

He prolly does ship comps by aixou · 2004-03-17 04:22 · Score: 2, Interesting

My guess is that everytime Michael receives money, he runs down to CompUSA, picks up whatever deal he can find, and ships that computer out to the buyer. If the buyer contacts him about slower than advertised speed, he'll probably say that the special "optimizations" got knocked out of whack during shipping, but not to worry, becuase it's still a "World Class" product.

Heh. by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-17 04:23 · Score: 0

I bet each computer comes with an SCO license, an Phantom console, and...

And now... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-17 04:23 · Score: 5, Funny

He'll add "As mentioned on Slashdot" to his page to add to the hype...

Re:And now... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-17 07:50 · Score: 0

Which will be quickly followed by:

Account for domain michaelscomputers.com has been suspended

It gets funnier as you go along. ? by SillyNickName4me · 2004-03-17 04:24 · Score: 1

More like.. it gets slower as you go along ;P

hmmm by WormholeFiend · 2004-03-17 04:24 · Score: 1

I read the article, but I havent visited Michael's PC website...

Sounds like he's either a former spammer, or a future one...

I'll let THW and you guys know if I ever get any spam for Michael's V!@gr4 CPU Thermal Grease...
-

easy foolery by British · 2004-03-17 04:25 · Score: 5, Interesting

Back in '96 I made a fake web page(on my university account) that sold hacker/phreaker gear. Red boxes, blue boxes etc. I did my best to make it look legit. I also had some more obscure items, like Game Boy cartridges that did red box tones, and other fun things I could think of.

Mind you the product drawings were almost MS paint quality.

One of the items I sold was a "katana" laptop computer, with CPU speeds about twice of the fastest CPUs of the day. Also, it said you could buy the laptop in person at our outlet store in New Tokyo.

Needless to say regardless of how amateur the page looked, I got emails every day from people who believed it. Most of them wanted the price on the katana. To think if I was a shyster I could have been swimming in credit card numbers.

Re:easy foolery by AbbyNormal · 2004-03-17 05:19 · Score: 1

Great, I want to pick up a few, I'll meet you in New Tokoyo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Tokyo_Internatio nal_Airport).

--
Sig it.
Re:easy foolery by drxenos · 2004-03-17 05:22 · Score: 3, Interesting

I'm very interested as to the purpose. Were you just bored, or were you doing some kind of study for school? What were your conclusions?

--

Anonymous Cowards suck.
Re:easy foolery by British · 2004-03-17 05:51 · Score: 4, Informative

I was just bored. I wondered to see what sort of response I would get. Mind you, this was in the early days of the web. More detail here:

http://british.nerp.net/commentary/alburt.html
Re:easy foolery by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-17 12:44 · Score: 0

You know, if it was so obviously fake, as you yourself admit, have you ever considered that the people emailing you were in on it?

I mean, if I saw a page like that, the first thing I would do would be to send a "wow, cool! A katana! Can I have one?" email to the site.

How could they already be /.'d ? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-17 04:25 · Score: 0

They must be running on those P4 that Tom seems so fond of.

Damn, just missed it by SFBwian · 2004-03-17 04:25 · Score: 1

Must have took too long typing out my submission. :( Oh well. I think anyone that actually reads any of the review sites that Michael so prominently displays logos of on his own site, would realize they haven't done a review of his computers.

At least Dell et. al. don't use completely outrageous, bogus, dubious, blanket statements about the performance of the hardware they use in their computers. Guys like this give startups and AMD a bad name to average buyers.

--
I'm looking to get rich. I've got steps #2 (????) and #3 (PROFIT!) planned out, but am having trouble coming up with #1.

(OT) Holy Cow! by schon · 2004-03-17 04:26 · Score: 3, Funny

Great site...

what struck me as particularly funny, is that with only one exception ("Promiscuous Sexual Behavior/Infidelity"), every single one of those points describes behaviour exhibited by Darl McBride in public!

Wow... it explains so much. :o)

Re:(OT) Holy Cow! by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-17 04:34 · Score: 0

what struck me as particularly funny, is that with only one exception ("Promiscuous Sexual Behavior/Infidelity"), every single one of those points describes behaviour exhibited by Darl McBride in public!

Er... that's not exactly true. Darl's been fucking *EVERYONE* up the ass these days.
Re:(OT) Holy Cow! by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-17 07:17 · Score: 0

what struck me as particularly funny, is that with only one exception ("Promiscuous Sexual Behavior/Infidelity"), every single one of those points describes behaviour exhibited by Darl McBride in public!
---->

Well, he is a Mormon :P

Hmm, well, at least not in public...

this is why i'm laughing by BlackWire · 2004-03-17 04:26 · Score: 3, Funny

This is the part cracking me up.

I was wondering, since you are a well established and reputable hardware site

Re:My review of Tom's Hardare (read on)... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-17 04:26 · Score: 0

twit

Tom's Own Hardware? by Bimo_Dude · 2004-03-17 04:27 · Score: 2, Funny

Has Tom investigated his own web server hardware?

It appears as though it cannnot handle a slashdotting.

--
"Teleporting Rodents with D-Cell Battery Displacement" theory -- IgnoramusMaximus (692000)

Articles broken up into separate pages by Imperator · 2004-03-17 04:30 · Score: 5, Funny

Why do sites insist on splitting articles into separate pages?

[next page]

It's even worse when the pages are short.

Hell, they often have only a few paragraphs per page.

[next page]

Some sites are kind enough to at least offer a "print article" link.

[next page]

Others don't.

[next page]

It's obvious what they're trying to do.

[next page]

They want to generate ad revenue.

[next page]

But really, the joke's on them.

[next page]

Because I use Privoxy.

[next page]

And so they don't get any ad money.

[next page]

But still have to spend money on the extra bandwidth it costs...

[next page]

...to split up the article into separate pages.

--

Gates' Law: Every 18 months, the speed of software halves.

Re:Articles broken up into separate pages by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-17 04:55 · Score: 0

"Because I use Privoxy."

Which makes you the center of the world?
Re:Articles broken up into separate pages by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-17 05:21 · Score: 0

i don't see that claim anywhere in his post.
Re:Articles broken up into separate pages by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-17 05:54 · Score: 0

The joke's still on you. You're the monkey clicking "next page" to wade through shitty tech "journalism".
Re:Articles broken up into separate pages by TheTranceFan · 2004-03-17 06:03 · Score: 1

The reason sites break up articles into tiny pages is simple: ad impressions. They have more ad impressions per article, so their chances of an ad click-through are better. So...unless the economics of the web changes soon, get used to it.
Re:Articles broken up into separate pages by Jeff+DeMaagd · 2004-03-17 06:06 · Score: 1

What's sad is that they have menus and options on all four sides of the "page's" text. It's almost as if you can get to any point of their site from any page. As well as half the internet's ads.
Re:Articles broken up into separate pages by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-17 06:51 · Score: 0

Um ya, he stated that. I've heard of not reading the article, but not even reading the comment that you responded to?

-- gid
Re:Articles broken up into separate pages by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-17 07:20 · Score: 0

Congrats! You're the very reason that causes website's to split articles even over more pages making it worse for everybody.
Re:Articles broken up into separate pages by workindev · 2004-03-17 08:36 · Score: 1

Why are you so against somebody making money from the work they put into a web site? Web sites (especially well-known sites like THG) spend lots of money and effort putting together useful material for you, and you are not even willing to give them a few pixels on the side of the article so they have the chance of being compensated? You know, people don't spend all the time and effort that it takes to run a web site out of the kindness of their hearts.
Re:Articles broken up into separate pages by LookSharp · 2004-03-17 09:54 · Score: 1

I'm not a slashdot subscriber, so I can't see all 163 of my comments. But I'm pretty sure you are just repeating my post from six to nine months ago.

Mine was funnier. :)
Re:Articles broken up into separate pages by elemental23 · 2004-03-17 10:50 · Score: 1

Personally, I'm not against someone making money from the work they put into their site, except when it seems the bulk of the work was figuring out how to get the most page views out of an article that should be on maybe two or three pages max.

I'm against sacrificing usability in favor of ad revenue. Which is why I don't read articles on sites like this.

--
I like my women like my coffee... pale and bitter.

Watch out - poster not Seth FINKELSTEIN by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-17 04:30 · Score: 0

I clicked through, the links seem real, but the parent poster isn't Seth Finkelstein, it's a troll

How many of you... by Dave21212 · 2004-03-17 04:31 · Score: 1

Given the large viewership here, and the fact that there is a sucker born every minute, how many of you are going to buy one of those laptops anyway ? Seriously, how many of you might buy one "just in case it's true" ;)

Stranger things can happen !

--
"Whoever would overthrow the liberty of a nation must begin by subduing the freeness of speech."--Benjamin Franklin

Makes You Think -ResellerRatings.com by N8F8 · 2004-03-17 04:31 · Score: 4, Interesting

I sometimes wonder the reason I've been so lucky buying things online. I've gotten some pretty good deals from cheesy looking web storefronts. One thing to consider next time is to check out a store's ratings at http://www.resellerratings.com/

--
"God fights on the side with the best artillery." - Napoleon, Marshal of France - speaking truth to power

Good job... by happyduder · 2004-03-17 04:31 · Score: 2, Funny

Good job Tom. Now you just need to investigate that other Michael's claims.

crafts conspiracy! by ThePretender · 2004-03-17 04:31 · Score: 2, Funny

At first I thought this was a story about an overagressive crafts store looking for market share while Martha's Empire was on the decline!

Software? by Ironclad2 · 2004-03-17 04:31 · Score: 5, Funny

Do the computers come bundled with Duke Nukem Forever?

Re:Software? by xlosermagnetx · 2004-03-17 05:50 · Score: 1

No, but they do come with a certificate for a free Phantom.

Dude! by BitwizeGHC · 2004-03-17 04:33 · Score: 1

I wonder if they'll sell me a Holomax!

--
N4st0r, trixx0r h0bb1tz0rz! Th3y st0l3 0ur pr3c10uzz!

Pulled Punches by Percy_Blakeney · 2004-03-17 04:33 · Score: 3, Interesting

Although the article was interesting, it didn't go all the way in exposing this guy. All they did was question his "benchmarks", track down where he lives, and then tell us, "Make up your own mind." I was expected them to get ahold of an actual computer and post their own benchmarks, but they never did. You can tell that they were completely pulling their punches in an effort to not get sued.

Maybe Tom's Hardware should hire John Stossel if they are going to do these kinds of pieces.

Re:Pulled Punches by Slack3r78 · 2004-03-17 04:41 · Score: 1

Except that John Stossel has decided that consumer advocacy is old hat, and that his new calling is exposing the great big evil, liberal media. Kind of sad, really. I respected his consumer work, but the notion that the media really sways in any direction other than that of the all-mighty dollar is a bit much for me.
Re:Pulled Punches by JayBlalock · 2004-03-17 04:49 · Score: 1

Fascinating troll... Despite overwhelming evidence that the man was untrustworthy, not to mention the fact that he ignored requests for a demo machine to review, you don't think their opinion is valid unless they willingly PAY HIM his outrageous prices just to get their hands on a machine? That's an excellent way of deterring crime, giving money to the scammers, don't you think?

--
Bush: He's Liberal in all the wrong ways.
Re:Pulled Punches by harrkev · 2004-03-17 06:01 · Score: 4, Insightful

I am certain that if you were to purchase one of his computers and have it shipped to Tom's Hardware, that they would be more than happy to review and benchmark it in short order. I would even expect a new speed record for how fast they can get the benchmark up.

Reputable companies often send hardware to web sites to review. If you have vaporware or "scamware", why would you voluntarily send it off for review?

I read enough to realize that I would be a fool to even give him the first dime to see if his claims were even true. If I have the money (which I sadly don't), the burden of proof is on the vendor to convince me that I need to give it to him. I don't owe any vendor anything, even the benefit of the doubt. Trust is something that is earned, not given out freely.

--
"-1 Troll" is the apparently the same as "-1 I disagree with you."
Re:Pulled Punches by Percy_Blakeney · 2004-03-17 07:12 · Score: 1

I didn't see that the writer even HAD a final opinion. He treated the thing as a type of investigative journalism, but wouldn't even summarize his findings into a simple recommendation.
Maybe that's what bugged me about this piece; you can tell the author had a definite opinon but he wouldn't just come out and say it. If he isn't willing to say it, what does that mean about his belief in his own supporting evidence? Did his lawyers tell him to hedge, or did he not believe he had enough real evidence to publicly condemn the guy?
As for your comment on giving money to a scammer, that's hogwash -- that is how investigative journalism works. If the journalist spends X dollars, but ends up saving the public 1000X dollars, it is definitely worth it.
Re:Pulled Punches by pyrrhonist · 2004-03-17 10:28 · Score: 1

Maybe that's what bugged me about this piece; you can tell the author had a definite opinon but he wouldn't just come out and say it.
The author presented overwhelming evidence that it was a scam, and then told you to draw your own conclusions.
That's called satire. Get it now?

--
Show me on the doll where his noodly appendage touched you.
Re:Pulled Punches by JayBlalock · 2004-03-17 17:27 · Score: 1

If the journalist spends X dollars, but ends up saving the public 1000X dollars, it is definitely worth it. Your willingness to spend $2,500 of someone else's money in the name of the public good is quite heartening.

--
Bush: He's Liberal in all the wrong ways.

So how much $$$ did this guy make? by jedi_gras · 2004-03-17 04:34 · Score: 1

I bet this guy made some bucks on unsuspecting clients. I also bet that he builds computers for corporate clients that just care more about reputation of small shops when making the decision to go w/ a local vendor versus a DELL or HP type of source. That's how it was when I worked at a little computer store in Boston anyway.

Too bad we have sleaze balls like this in the world...

But there is a bright side, the article was funny and I just saved a lot of money on my car insurance by switching to GEICO. Lol.

The absolutely funniest thing I've ever seen... by Brando_Calrisean · 2004-03-17 04:37 · Score: 1, Informative

Take a look at Michael's 'Press Releases' section. It's the same piece of text copied and pasted over and over again with different dates! Mar. 17th, 2004 - This just in, we are the best! Feb. 27th, 2003 - This just in, we are the best! Apr. 15th, 2001 - This just in, we are the best!

--
Don't call me a cowboy, and don't tell me to slow down!

almost /.ed by $-chavito-$ · 2004-03-17 04:37 · Score: 0

From the article:

"I don't care what kind of computer you have now, but it CAN'T be faster than one from Michael's Computers. You may think your PC is the best in the world, but you are wrong. With a boot time of 4 seconds, a 3dMark 2003 score of 17,000+, and a .19 decibel rating - a computer from Michael's Computers cannot be beat," or so Michael's Computers' claims.

We usually don't do investigative articles, but the claims coming from Michael's Computers were too good to ignore. A deluge of discontent expressed in emails and discussion forums further prompted us to look into a deal that seemed to good to be true.

Evidence was gathered from numerous phone interviews, countless emails and several visits to alleged Michael's Computers business locations. To top it all off, we tracked down Mr. Gonzales and interviewed him ON VIDEO, which can be viewed/downloaded at the end of this article.

So, is Michael J. Gonzales, the owner of Michael's Computers, misleading consumers by posting false information? Is he using proprietary logos without permission, and operating without the necessary business permits? Read on and decide for yourself.

I first heard of Michael's Computers on Feb 25, 2004 when THG received this email from Ryan Sanders.

I was wondering if your site has ever had any news on Michaels Computers (www.michaelscomputers.com). His site has been a swirl of controversy over the last week on many a message boards due to claims of hitting 17,000+ in 3DMark03 from their desktop, and 13-15,000 for their notebooks. On top of that, they claim to have a "AMD FX51 3400+ CPU". As most of us know their are 2 different CPU's that fit that description (The Athlon64 FX-51 and then there is the Athlon64 3400+), but when contacted about that, he claimed it was in fact the correct title for the CPU, and that it was some sort of specially optimized CPU.

I was wondering, since you are a well established and reputable hardware site, if you could look into this, or request a sample product for Review? I, along with many others, believe this site to be a joke, or hoax, and don't want to see a bunch of people buy into the big numbers of the benchmark scores. Thank you for your time.

Sincerely,
Ryan Sanders.

I was thinking, "WOW!!! I want this laptop!" so I searched for more information on discussion forums and Michael's website.

Just before this article was submitted, I received this email from Chuck Davis:

A year ago I called them on the phone and talked directly to Michael. He totally sold me on his stuff and therefore I continued to follow his site. I ordered an am MX51 back in Nov. and waited two weeks with no computer. We were emailing each other with ?s and responses during that two week period. On a Sun. he said the MX51 would be shipped that week and he would send me a tracking #. On Fri. still nothing and I emailed him and nothing so I cancelled. Luckily I was able to use my credit card and had no problem with a refund. Since that time he has stopped accepting emails.

Truthfully, he is a complete liar. He told so many lies about the MX51, I am so glad I was able to get out of it. Almost every claim he made was false. If you need more detail I will give them to you later. Stay away from this company.

Discussion Boards

I browsed a few online discussion boards such as Futuremark, Sharky Extreme, and IGN. Each time Michael's Computers has been mentioned, the boards have been flooded with responses. Some of these discussions have generated HUNDREDs of posts, like this discussion from the Sharky Extreme Forums.

I hope you have a lot of time available to read the 470+ posts on that particular discussion.

Webpage

The Front Page

At first glance, the Webpage is similar to other computer manufacturer websites. Below you will see a screenshot taken March 3, 2004.

Michael's Computers website front page, March 3, 2004

You can see that they appear to sell

The reporter... by fatwreckfan · 2004-03-17 04:37 · Score: 1

...was ballsy to walk up to the guy's house with a video camera and talk to the guy. Mike could have easily become pretty pissed off that someone was threatening to expose his scam.

Re:The reporter... by exspecto · 2004-03-17 04:52 · Score: 1, Interesting

No it wasn't. If you couldn't tell, it was a hidden cam. Do most interviewers hold their camera at an angle and mostly film the person's shirt?
Re:The reporter... by fatwreckfan · 2004-03-17 05:00 · Score: 1

Ah, I didn't actually download the video, just read the article and it said he grabbed his camera and went to the door.
Re:The reporter... by kundor · 2004-03-17 05:20 · Score: 1

I assumed that the THG guy was just a really sucky camera operator.
Re:The reporter... by exspecto · 2004-03-17 05:28 · Score: 0

Hehe, understandable. But maybe Slashdot should add a new acronym: WTFV (watch the...etc)
Re:The reporter... by not5150 · 2004-03-17 12:27 · Score: 1

Actually it wasn't a hidden cam... It was tucked under my left arm. I was holding a legal notepad in my left hand, and writing with my right hand. Maybe that would explain the angle. Oh and another thing, I'm 5'5" and he is 6'4"... that might explain the angle too. Anything else you would like to assume???? not5150 www.not5150.com --Warflying is not a crime--
Re:The reporter... by exspecto · 2004-03-17 16:37 · Score: 0

Yes, I'll assume you don't have the money for a tripod. Nice way to get defensive. Are you trying to argue that you were dealing with danger by filming him?

3DMark2001 and 2003 by Pidder · 2004-03-17 04:38 · Score: 5, Informative

15,000 is a very reasonable score for a decent system in the 2001 version where the world record is a few points over 30,000. It's very likely that the marketing guy just made a simple mistake.

3dMark2003 is a whole different ball game however, and a score of 15,000 is clearly impossible. The world record is just over 10,000 points (trivia: made by finnish overclocker 'Macci' with a p4 3.2 EE clocked to 4.5 ghz and a Radeon 9800XT clocked extremely high).

Extreme overclocking has gone a long way. Macci cools both his cpu and gpu with a cascade system which is two phase change coolers (like the Vapochill) connected together in some cool way I don't have the technical know-how to describe. It cools both his cpu and gpu to -100C.

Re:3DMark2001 and 2003 by Pidder · 2004-03-17 04:42 · Score: 5, Funny

Haha forget about what I said about "simple mistake". I have now RTFA. That guy is a just a massive tool.
Re:3DMark2001 and 2003 by LurkerXXX · 2004-03-17 05:18 · Score: 4, Funny

Right. He said 3dMark2003 instead of 3dMark2001.
And he claimed it was the 'World's Fastest Tower' which it wouldn't be with the 3dMark2001 score.
And he said .15 DB instead of 15 DB.
And he said 500GB Hard drive instead of 250 GB Hard drive.
And he said he was in business from 1996-2000 at one location instead of 2000-2004.
And he calimed places had reviewed his machine that didn't.
And he seemed to claim he had won awards that he hadn't.
And he seemed to claim people were customers who weren't.
And.... seeing a trend yet?
Simple mistake??? right...
Oh, I've got some loveley swampland in Florida that you might be interested in! I'll make you a great deal!
Re:3DMark2001 and 2003 by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-17 07:11 · Score: 0

Excellent karma-whoring technique. Distract with bogus techno-drivel, then say 'haha'.
Impressive.
Re:3DMark2001 and 2003 by VoraciousGorak · 2004-03-17 07:16 · Score: 1

This is gonna be modded "flamebait" or "redundant" or something like that, but there is no 3DMark2003. You say that on the FM forums and there's a good chance someone will jump on you... it's 3DMark03.
Re:3DMark2001 and 2003 by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-17 08:31 · Score: 0

It's very likely that the marketing guy just made a simple mistake.

Did you read the THG article? Michael Gonzales is the marketing guy. He may very well have made a mistake; in fact he appears to have made lots of them in the produce descriptions. But this is irrelevent since he never intended to be honest in the first place. He doesn't even appear to sell any computers at all!

See his clients list? by Judg3 · 2004-03-17 04:39 · Score: 4, Insightful

Boening, US Marines, US Air Force, Coke, City of Orange, etc etc.

How much do you want to bet that those 'clients' are his in only the loosest sense - someone that works for the USAF bought a PC, so now the whole USAF is a client. Someone from boeing bought a PC, and had it delivered to their work address - all of a sudden Boeing as a whole is now a client hehe.

--
Looking for hardware (Currently need: Large Etch-a-Sketch) Have one? See my journal!

Re:See his clients list? by c_oflynn · 2004-03-17 04:42 · Score: 1

The article indicates that the guy might not even sell ANY computers at all...
Re:See his clients list? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-17 04:52 · Score: 0

From what I saw in the review, he just leads you on to believe tha you have a computer coming and thats funny about the client list.
Re:See his clients list? by Dun+Malg · 2004-03-17 05:49 · Score: 4, Funny

How much do you want to bet that those 'clients' are his in only the loosest sense - someone that works for the USAF bought a PC, so now the whole USAF is a client.
You're probably right. I was particularly amused by a quote in his FAQ praising his waranty service, attributed to the US Navy. Not a rep of the Navy, but the Navy itself. Must have been a good warranty for the whole Navy to say it liked it. Of course, even if we assume it was quote from a Navy person working in procurement, it's clearly bogus:
"...I only choose Michael's Computers over any other company because it's far better to know the maker and someone you can trust and is a Christian."

Someone representing the US Navy is about as likely to say they chose a vendor because he's christian as they are likely to say they chose a vendor because they're "trustworthy white folk, not scheming negroes or devious chinamen".

--
If a job's not worth doing, it's not worth doing right.
Re:See his clients list? by ZorMonkey · 2004-03-17 05:59 · Score: 1

I'd bet he found all those places in his web logs. If they look at your website, you served them something, and theyre your client! Some of my clients include the Austrailian Department of Defense, US Treasury, Honeywell, Microsoft, Micron, UPS, and Bank of America! :)
Re:See his clients list? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-17 15:03 · Score: 0

Ahhh, I get it - he must be a liberal.

Michael Is Evil by myownkidney · 2004-03-17 04:40 · Score: 0

Michael Is Evil
Here's compelling evidence that Slashdot's Michael is Evil:

He scams on computer sales
He hijacked the website of censorware project
He allowed a wholly unscientific article to appear on slashdot

--
Indefinitely Detained US Citizen

Announcement! by British · 2004-03-17 04:41 · Score: 1

I heard Michael's Computers will now be selling pre-sales of Phantom game consoles. Pre-order yours now!

Good Old Tommy Boy, Panties In a Bind... by Saeed+al-Sahaf · 2004-03-17 04:42 · Score: 2, Troll

Jesus. It's just more snake oil, I'm not even sure how it constitutes "news". And as the claim of hitting 17,000+ in the 3DMark03 test, well, I think we all know about the validity of 3DMark03 (can you say NVIDIA???). I guess my point is, if Slashdot is going to run a story on every internet based scam-ola, they better lay on some staff. And if you are stupid enough to fall for the pie-in-the-sky computer deal, you deserve what you get.

From the Tom's story: "I was thinking, WOW!!! I want this laptop!" Yeh baby! I want to fly the Space Shuttle too, think it's a possibility? And speaking of "Tom's Hardware", I thought it was the Slashdot consensus that ole' Tom was in it for the free toys. Ever consider that maybe, just maybe Michael's refused to spot Tommy a free laptop for a positive story?

--
"Who are in control, they are not in control of anything - they don't even control themselves!" - Glen Beck

Re:Good Old Tommy Boy, Panties In a Bind... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-17 05:01 · Score: 0

"I emailed Michael Gonzales asking for a review unit, but as of March 6, 2004 have not received one."
Yup, Tom's just PO'd cuz he couldn't snake a free notebook 'puter. But it's still a scam.
Re:Good Old Tommy Boy, Panties In a Bind... by Steve+B · 2004-03-17 05:10 · Score: 1

And if you are stupid enough to fall for the pie-in-the-sky computer deal, you deserve what you get.
I recall that back when Penn Jilette had a column in PC Computing, he ran an April Fool ad for a computer with all sorts of amazing if not downright impossible features. If you called the number in the "ad", you got a tape of Penn razzing you for being a sucker.
In response to the flak he got, he ran an even more obviously bogus ad the following April, offering an even further beyond-the-envelope computer and color laser printer for $999.

--
/. If the government wants us to respect the law, it should set a better example.
Re:Good Old Tommy Boy, Panties In a Bind... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-17 05:30 · Score: 0

Ever consider that maybe, just maybe Michael's refused to spot Tommy a free laptop for a positive story?

No no no...Tom is all about the freebies but this guy is obviously full of BS. Tom could never justify a positive review for a laptop bought from him.
Re:Good Old Tommy Boy, Panties In a Bind... by 0x0d0a · 2004-03-17 06:43 · Score: 1

From the Tom's story: "I was thinking, WOW!!! I want this laptop!" Yeh baby! I want to fly the Space Shuttle too, think it's a possibility?

You know, just because you're not a fan of Tom doesn't mean that he wasn't being sarcastic.

--
May we never see th
Re:Good Old Tommy Boy, Panties In a Bind... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-17 07:20 · Score: 0

You must have too much time on your hands. That, or you like Tom's spunk!
Re:Good Old Tommy Boy, Panties In a Bind... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-17 07:44 · Score: 0

Being a soldier means as much about loving war as being a firefighter does about loving fire
Sorry to tell you, as a former Fire Fighter and EMT, firemen *love* fire. You should see some of the "BBQs'" we put on!
Re:Good Old Tommy Boy, Panties In a Bind... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-17 10:39 · Score: 0

You should see some of the "BBQs'" we put on!
In small towns that's sometimes all they get a chance to do. Firefighters are also the best caterers, so support your local fire department by ordering food from them.

First No Insurance now this by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-17 04:44 · Score: 0

Damn Mexicans. This is all what they are good for.

Text (no pictures) of article by NickNiel · 2004-03-17 04:47 · Score: 3, Informative

It has been up for like 3 minutes and is already slashdotted..... Unfortunately, the pictures are pretty integral to the article....

Too Good to Be True: Michael's Computers

Introduction

"I don't care what kind of computer you have now, but it CAN'T be faster than one from Michael's Computers. You may think your PC is the best in the world, but you are wrong. With a boot time of 4 seconds, a 3dMark 2003 score of 17,000+, and a .19 decibel rating - a computer from Michael's Computers cannot be beat," or so Michael's Computers' claims.

We usually don't do investigative articles, but the claims coming from Michael's Computers were too good to ignore. A deluge of discontent expressed in emails and discussion forums further prompted us to look into a deal that seemed to good to be true.

Evidence was gathered from numerous phone interviews, countless emails and several visits to alleged Michael's Computers business locations. To top it all off, we tracked down Mr. Gonzales and interviewed him ON VIDEO, which can be viewed/downloaded at the end of this article.

So, is Michael J. Gonzales, the owner of Michael's Computers, misleading consumers by posting false information? Is he using proprietary logos without permission, and operating without the necessary business permits? Read on and decide for yourself.

The Buzz About Michael's Computers

I first heard of Michael's Computers on Feb 25, 2004 when THG received this email from Ryan Sanders.

I was wondering if your site has ever had any news on Michaels Computers (www.michaelscomputers.com). His site has been a swirl of controversy over the last week on many a message boards due to claims of hitting 17,000+ in 3DMark03 from their desktop, and 13-15,000 for their notebooks. On top of that, they claim to have a "AMD FX51 3400+ CPU". As most of us know their are 2 different CPU's that fit that description (The Athlon64 FX-51 and then there is the Athlon64 3400+), but when contacted about that, he claimed it was in fact the correct title for the CPU, and that it was some sort of specially optimized CPU.

I was wondering, since you are a well established and reputable hardware site, if you could look into this, or request a sample product for Review? I, along with many others, believe this site to be a joke, or hoax, and don't want to see a bunch of people buy into the big numbers of the benchmark scores. Thank you for your time.

Sincerely,
Ryan Sanders.

I was thinking, "WOW!!! I want this laptop!" so I searched for more information on discussion forums and Michael's website.

Just before this article was submitted, I received this email from Chuck Davis:

A year ago I called them on the phone and talked directly to Michael. He totally sold me on his stuff and therefore I continued to follow his site. I ordered an am MX51 back in Nov. and waited two weeks with no computer. We were emailing each other with ?s and responses during that two week period. On a Sun. he said the MX51 would be shipped that week and he would send me a tracking #. On Fri. still nothing and I emailed him and nothing so I cancelled. Luckily I was able to use my credit card and had no problem with a refund. Since that time he has stopped accepting emails.

Truthfully, he is a complete liar. He told so many lies about the MX51, I am so glad I was able to get out of it. Almost every claim he made was false. If you need more detail I will give them to you later. Stay away from this company.

Discussion Boards

I browsed a few online discussion boards such as Futuremark, Sharky Extreme, and IGN. Each time Michael's Computers has been mentioned, the boards have been flooded with responses. Some of these discussions have generated HUNDREDs of posts, like this discussion from the Sharky Extreme Forums.

I hope you have a lot of time available to read the 470+ posts on that particular discussion.

Re:Text (no pictures) of article by The+Clockwork+Troll · 2004-03-17 05:56 · Score: 1

Wow, so that's what a readable Tom's Hardware article looks like!
How would you feel about doing that for every THG article? What's your KarmaPal address?

--

There are no karma whores, only moderation johns

Even the Navy "fell" for this one. by Just3Ws · 2004-03-17 04:47 · Score: 0

"We have computers from every company & your MX System is by far the fastest. Our technicians have seen literally hundreds of cutting-edge computers from every manufacturer and they practically drooled over your MX Systems"

- United States Navy California / Sidewinder Missile Development Team (02/15/2003

WOW, even the most sophisticated Navy in the WORLD thinks that this guy who works out of his house makes better computers than anybody else.

Surround sound to make your ears bleed? by Tanami · 2004-03-17 04:48 · Score: 1

The current ad for the MX8 states:

Now with 5.1, 6.1 and 7.1 Surround sound at 180dB!

...which is 10000 times louder than the highest thing listed by the American Academy of Otolaryngology:

140 gun muzzle blast, jet engine; Noise causes pain and even brief exposure injures unprotected ears. Maximum allowed noise with hearing protector.

I think I'll pass :S

Re:Surround sound to make your ears bleed? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-17 05:16 · Score: 0

Wasn't 180dB the one that causes your hair to catch on fire?

FOUND YOU!!!! by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-17 04:50 · Score: 0

I want my money back!!!1!!1!!

You know what you could do with all that power? by ShallowThroat · 2004-03-17 04:51 · Score: 0

3DMark03 Average Score - 15,417"
A lot. But it still couldn't run Doom III.

--
The "Insert Quote Here" line is almost as predictable as inserting an actual quote.

maybe later by aufecht · 2004-03-17 04:51 · Score: 1

"Tom's Hardware HAD an extensive article raising questions about Michael's Computers, until the story was linked on Slashdot and the site was brought to it's knees"

If you read the article by BoomerSooner · 2004-03-17 04:52 · Score: 1

They couldn't get a non-existing computer. I'm shocked they didn't perform tests on it.

Maybe you should quit watching John Stossel if he offends you so much.

Whoa..... by Tsali · 2004-03-17 04:55 · Score: 1

I didn't know these guys sold computers. All I ever saw was a lot of candles and clothing patterns...

http://www.michaels.com/art/online/home

--
This space for rent.

I Have One by O_D_Evans · 2004-03-17 04:56 · Score: 5, Informative

The notebooks featured on Michael's site are actually Clevo (http://www.clevo.com.tw/) notebooks. They are sold in the US under the brand name Sager, available from (among others) pctorque.com. I have the 17" model (tricked out w/ P4 3.2, 1gig RAM, ATI 9600 128MB, DVD burner etc etc) and it *is* bloody quick, but not that quick (about 20 sec to boot XP to usable state). I got it to run 3D CAD/CAM, which it does, like a dream. The only downside of this is it also runs Q3A amazingly well too, so I never actually get any work done ;).

Re:I Have One by NotAnotherReboot · 2004-03-17 05:47 · Score: 2, Informative

Don't forget quite a few other companies seem to use Clevo too...or at least the same cases...
If you remember Liebermann Computers (a lot of people thought they might be a hoax with some of their products), even their laptops look the same.

Alienware also looks the same.
Re:I Have One by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-17 10:06 · Score: 0

The only downside of this is it also runs Q3A amazingly well too

Making that claim today is like saying, "my car can go 70 mph!" It's just not that impressive anymore. But the real question is, does your laptop have Windows XP 2004 on it?

This reminds me of... by whyde · 2004-03-17 04:57 · Score: 3, Informative

a guy in South Florida who used to sell (back in the day) PC clone computers where it was trendy to have a "turbo" button and an LED on the front panel showing the CPU clock speed.

Some of the cases simply had three 7-segment LEDs with jumpers to select what was "displayed" when the "turbo" button was pressed.

This guy was selling "100 MHz" 80486 computers back when the top speed available was still 33 MHz, and it took awhile before anybody called bullshit... the amazing thing is that people were willing to believe that their computers really were that much faster, just to stroke their own ego.

Re:This reminds me of... by 0racle · 2004-03-17 05:09 · Score: 1

I thought thats all the turbo button did anyway.

--
"I use a Mac because I'm just better than you are."
Re:This reminds me of... by drxenos · 2004-03-17 05:37 · Score: 1

No, a turbo button, when off, would lower the clock speed to 8 or 4.77 Mhz so you could play older games that had poor coded timing loops.

--

Anonymous Cowards suck.
Re:This reminds me of... by Night+Goat · 2004-03-17 15:41 · Score: 1

Why are half the world's scammers and spammers in Florida? What the hell? I hate that state. If it weren't for Walt Disney World, that state would be totally worthless.

Re:Geico by SFBwian · 2004-03-17 04:58 · Score: 1

I hope you didn't ACTUALLY switch to Geico. I haven't ever heard a good thing about them from anyone (read: many people from work/school over the years, many different claims). You can get competitive/better rates, and much better service from other places, and might actually not get dropped from their service the moment you're involved in an accident.

--
I'm looking to get rich. I've got steps #2 (????) and #3 (PROFIT!) planned out, but am having trouble coming up with #1.

Another award.. by glassesmonkey · 2004-03-17 05:01 · Score: 1

I was thinking his new business cards will read "World's Fastest Computer as Reviewed on Tom's Hardware Guide"

Whats Missing... by SomeOtherGuy · 2004-03-17 05:05 · Score: 2, Interesting

Ok. Based on this article I am pretty sure this guy is shady and not very honest. Based on the website said article is hosted on "Toms Hardware", I am pretty sure reviews hardware (and pretty well at that).

So what is missing from this story you ask? Well you have a company that claims to have the fastest Desktop and Laptop PC known to man. And a website that reviews PC's and Laptops. What you don't have is any review in the story.

Not one piece of hardware was obtained and/or tested. I mean if you want to call the guy a fraud (which he most likely is) is not this story 90% incomplete without actually running any benchmarks on the hardware?

--
(+1 Funny) only if I laugh out loud.

Re:Whats Missing... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-17 05:14 · Score: 0

Vaporware. Look it up.
Re:Whats Missing... by EvilTwinSkippy · 2004-03-17 08:53 · Score: 1

You got ripped. The next week it came bundles with the MS Longhorn OS and Half-Life 2

--
"Learning is not compulsory... neither is survival."
--Dr.W.Edwards Deming

False claims on the Internet... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-17 05:06 · Score: 1, Funny

Oh, boy, I knew that some day this would happen...

What's next? False claims in unsolicited email?

I have a Michael's PC at home by Strange+Ranger · 2004-03-17 05:07 · Score: 5, Interesting

A little background: About a year and half ago I found myself needing/wanting a monster PC, P4 2.8, 5 WD drives, 4 in a raid 10 array for photography, music, video, etc. Gotta protect all those thousands of pictures. For fun I also wanted a gaming config as well, Radeon 9700 Pro, DDR 400, etc. Long story short, I wanted a top of the line Voodoo PC or Alienware, or Hypersonic, custom built for me, not built by me. But in NO WAY did I want the silly paint job or the price that came with it.

I also do enough hardware fiddling at work that I just didn't want to deal with it at home (busy + lazy). I wanted Uber Box to show up at my door. Go ahead poke fun, I wanted it, I could get it, so I got it.

Back then his site was much less over-the-top, he had a 7 year warranty, etc. I dealt with Michael over the phone and we came to a price which was quite agreeable for the parts and labor. I knew the pricegrabber price for every part in there, MB, sticks of memory, etc. The spec sheet he sent was right on.

The PC is great, nice build, no widgets, no crapware, XP Pro with all MS-Phone-Home-ware removed or disabled, all those services in XP that most of us know to turn off, he had them off, etc, etc. When I had trouble with the Firewire ports, he walked me through the pin-outs on the Audigy 2, when that didn't work due to meager support from Creative, he overnighted me a firewire card. He has been outstanding as far as customer service is concerned, I'm quite happy with the "uber-box", yes it's over the top, but i like it that way and in a few years I won't be aching for a complete replacement.

I always ignored his marketing. He's a VERY exhuberant fellow in person, and it shows! HA. He's a one-man-show. He knows how to build a nice PC, and is willing to do it, where I am not. I disapprove of the direction his marketing has taken (who wouldn't). Because of it, I've taken to sending folks here and elsewhere who want a PC built for them.

It's sad because if you remove the marketing aspect, and of course haggle on price, he DOES do just as good a job as the Alienware / Voodoo PC folks. Actually better because I hate that tricked out case stuff, and I have yet to hear of Alienware calling or emailing you back in 5 minutes with a fix or a tracking number to a free replacement part you haven't asked for yet.

Just goes to show that running a [Widget] business takes a lot more than being a [Widget] expert. You've got to have your marketing, order processing, legal angles, etc., all figured out as well.

Maybe this "expose" will help him improve. I wish him luck. He's a real nice guy.

--

Operator, give me the number for 911!

Re:I have a Michael's PC at home by 0x0d0a · 2004-03-17 06:40 · Score: 5, Funny

Hi, Mike! Good to have you drop in!

--
May we never see th
Re:I have a Michael's PC at home by Strange+Ranger · 2004-03-17 07:25 · Score: 1

Funny. I was being honest. My comment history may bear me out on this. Or my user ID that is many years old, older than yours. I couldn't understand the troll mod until I read your comment. I work at a financial institution that is on the other side of the country from this guy.

I'd call you the troll here, but that was pretty funny.

--

Operator, give me the number for 911!
Re:I have a Michael's PC at home by jonbach · 2004-03-17 09:36 · Score: 1

Ranger -

Thanks for the referrals! This slashdot link brought in enough traffic to grab our attention, and I found the whole story very interesting. I found it particularly interesting that we have our own "campaign against fraud" going on here! We have a good number of internet sites posing as companies and copying our website content, even our testimonials, to look credible!

Give it a look here.

Jon Bach
Puget Custom Computers
http://www.pugetsystems.com
Re:I have a Michael's PC at home by Strange+Ranger · 2004-03-17 11:01 · Score: 2

> Thanks for the referrals!

My pleasure. Resellerratings.com makes it easy.
And safer. ;]

What a sorry sordid affair.

--

Operator, give me the number for 911!

Re:Michael's Computers by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-17 05:10 · Score: 0, Funny

Not really. Omitted were mentions of your base, hot grits, and the death of Steven King.
Hardly overkill, sir.

Wrong by gearheadsmp · 2004-03-17 05:11 · Score: 0

The "specs" on the desktop are false claims made by a con-man. The parent of you're post was making a joke about the scammer having slow erections and making very little noise while banging the woman he was married to at the time.

Re:Wrong by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-17 05:34 · Score: 0

Actually, I think the guy you replied too understood it better than you did, he merely emphasizes one of the parent's joke.

In your brief explanation of the original joke, you missed the point that it's the woman that was silent during the act.

Also, these jokes rely heavily on innuendo, no need to explain them to the 0.001% that don't actually get it.
Re:Wrong by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-17 05:48 · Score: 0

Your post has incorrect usage of "you're." You're stupid.

The law is.... by mseeger · 2004-03-17 05:12 · Score: 1

... that if something sound to good to be true, it usually isn't.

Regards, Martin

Where's Roger Cook when you need him? by Channard · 2004-03-17 05:13 · Score: 3, Funny

Or whatever investigative reports the US has - because clearly standards are slipping. Not with the investigators, but with the scamsters. It used to be you could tune into Roger Cook's Cook Report or Watchdog (UK shows, folks) and the scamster could be watched, on camera, doing a runner, slamming a door in someone's face, while the interviewer tried to get answers out of them. This 'video interview'.. it's just.. unnatural.

It is about time by Zapdos · 2004-03-17 05:14 · Score: 1

I get tired of articles Like
Female Printers,
A Law Show Set 25 Years from Now
Melting Europa

--
Get a free ipod.

I've got one of their desktops by supergiovane · 2004-03-17 05:18 · Score: 4, Funny

Not only it achieves a stunning 17108 in 3DMark '03, but it also came bundled with Duke Nukem Forever, running at 138fps at full details.

--
Signatures are for stupids.

Re:I've got one of their desktops by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-17 06:46 · Score: 0

Yeah, and this on GNU/Hurd

Retaliation... by frs_rbl · 2004-03-17 05:20 · Score: 1

Just wait for Mike's Electric Stuff to write a retaliatory article

--
This is not my opinion. Actually, it's not even an opinion. And I'm nowhere to be seen near it

Argh!!! by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-17 05:22 · Score: 0

[quote]it's basically the best way to make money, next to taking advantage of lonely guys (pornsites, strippers) and taking advantage of lazy people (remote control, clapper[/quote]

I have no idea why this "BB Code" has become so popular as if HTML was so friggen hard. Hell, /. even TELLS you what HTML is valid right below the post box!

I wish there was a -1 /. noob mod option because when I see something like this I just want to tear my hear out.

hahaha You're a sucker by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-17 05:26 · Score: 0

Please do tell, how much did you pay for that system? hahaha

Re:hahaha You're a sucker by Strange+Ranger · 2004-03-17 05:41 · Score: 2, Informative

OK troll this is for anyone ELSE who is intested: Pricegrabber total plus $370 but no tax.

Right in line with all the other quotes I got from the custom build shops on resellerratings.com, only real difference was a 7 year warranty for free instead of an extended 3-year that costs extra. A sucker is someone who thinks he's getting something he's not. I got exactly what I wanted. Maybe next time YOU'LL build it for me and warranty it for less (while I go fishing)?

--

Operator, give me the number for 911!
Re:hahaha You're a sucker by Monkey · 2004-03-17 06:05 · Score: 1

But how much value is in a 7 year warranty? Do you see yourself eventually using a 7 year old PC?
Re:hahaha You're a sucker by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-17 06:21 · Score: 0

only real difference was a 7 year warranty for free instead of an extended 3-year that costs extra.

That's the plus side of dealing with a maniac. :)

I mean really, a 7-year warranty on a computer? People are throwing out 7-year-old computers (Pentium MMX/Pentium II systems) nowadays. And I have to say, several of the tossed-out PII I've had to deal with have been tossed because of dead hardware. A warranty that long will come back to bite you, unless you plan to go out of business before seven years are up.
Re:hahaha You're a sucker by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-17 06:30 · Score: 0

Other 3 year warranties pushed the cost of the system up hundreds of dollars. 3,7, who cares as long as you're not being charged out the ass for it. Either is better than a 1 year warranty, which IMO says you don't stand behind your product.
Re:hahaha You're a sucker by 110010001000 · 2004-03-17 06:58 · Score: 1

and do you think Michaels computers will be around in 7 years? I guess P.T. Barnum was right.
Re:hahaha You're a sucker by acidfish · 2004-03-17 08:41 · Score: 1

7 year warranty is actually an interesting marketing approach... You've now sold a computer to someone, and they have a reason to come back to you (brand loyalty) for the next 7 years. Within that 7 year period, you can try to convince them that they should buy a new computer from you, rather than repairing the old one, and you can offer a $50 discount (which you would've taken off anyways during the haggle.) And if they really do insist on replacement parts, how much is it going to cost for 7 year old parts, hmmm? $10 on eBay for a random motherboard/cpu/ram combo? oh no, think of the replacement cost!! 7 year warranties would only bite you on the ass if you were: 1) a major vendor who makes your money on volume sales (and therefore having to deal with warranty replacement at all costs you lots of money, because of the time of the people who you're employing) 2) you stated no substitutions, in which case you might have difficulty finding the part. but really, who's going to turn down an offer of a 6 y/o computer to replace their 7 y/o computer, under warranty, at a cost of $25 to the seller? (remember, this replacement computer is something people are THROWING AWAY, as-is.) Think about it. It's really quite smart.
Re:hahaha You're a sucker by zakezuke · 2004-03-17 09:20 · Score: 1

7 year warranties would only bite you on the ass if you were: 1) a major vendor [snip] volume sales
2) you stated no substitutions, in which case you might have difficulty finding the part

I'll agree most people would be happy with an upgrade in the event of a 7 year old computer failing, even a minor one.

I can see this biting someone in the arse for two reasons.

1)... Let's say the fans failed or the OS crashed. While this is not a big deal, but you may be obligated to fix fans and restore a system for 7 years.

2)... You're obligated to return the system to the state it was when it was sold. While this may not nessicarly mean no substutions, all the software and hardware need work as it was sold to them in the first place.

I can easily a pc sold in 1997 still running win3.1 and some dos applications, like word perfect 6.0 for example. I think there were a limited amount of video cards let alone VLB ones that worked with WP6.0 in 256 colors.

You or I would say it's time to upgrade, and that's just fine. But it's possible the end user might actually still need WP 6.0 and dialup to a Compucom modem.

I'm sure the above scenero is rare, but never the less something you need take into account.

--
There is no sanctuary. There is no sanctuary. SHUT UP! There is no shut up. There is no shut up.
Re:hahaha You're a sucker by Strange+Ranger · 2004-03-17 09:22 · Score: 2, Informative

Shit I don't think he's going to be around in 7 minutes! Haha. He made his bed so to speak. Hmmm... any problems and I guess I'll deal with the OEMs, of course they're all quite reputable.

All I did was pick out every single component I wanted and then I looked for somebody to build it for me. He even had to order the SIS 648 board because he didn't carry it. Everything I said is the damn truth though. For the same price I picked him over the competition for 7 years vs. 1 year (1 is not very customer oriented and is unacceptable for anything costing thousands), and looking back I think it was mostly because he seemed eager to build it vs. "we don't carry that yet".

Even w/o the warranty, in the end I paid him about 370 for labor, got good support, a free 40 dollar firewire card overnighted to solve a problem, etc. I had a good experience. Maybe it's because he knew after 1 minute on the phone that couldn't fool me, or maybe it's because I told him what to build instead of asking for his "standard". Or maybe, just maybe, the guy means well and knows how to build a pc, but has A TON to learn about running and esp. marketing a business. Maybe he's a pathological liar and I got off lucky because the only thing he lied to me about was the warranty since that's the only thing he COULD lie to me about. I doubt that given the card he shipped me without me asking for it. (I wanted to make the audigy port work) But I'll never know. Other than wishing to see goodness in people, I have no reason to care at this point.

--

Operator, give me the number for 911!

WOW!! by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-17 05:26 · Score: 0

Pepsi, The official drink of scam artists everywhere.

You know what would be funny by timitch_1 · 2004-03-17 05:29 · Score: 1

Someone reports this guy to SCO for using there IP.
That would make an interesting law suit. Invisible IP found in invisible computer. Lawsuit settled for invisible money.

Sells to the Navy by nolife · 2004-03-17 05:30 · Score: 2, Interesting

He claims to have sold to the Navy.
Big F**king Deal

I was on the Navy end of purchasing before, not from his store but many others. We often recieved complete JUNK. I am sure every command is different and this was a few years ago but...

We would place an order for hardware. Sometimes very specific things, sometimes generic. Our purchase request would be sent to accounting or purchasing and bids from local businesses were solicited. Our local accounting office was sensitive to minority, small, business owners so a black female owned small business would have a better chance of getting some contracts then a small business owned by a white man. I am in no way shape or form predjidiced or racist, I am just describing the details of the process, I DO NOT know the specific formula they used or any percentages they followed. Many people doing bidding know the game and how to take advantage of this process with husbands and wifes and children all owning thier "own" company.

There was one company that was minority owned, small and would undercut everyone else that bid. We always recieved complete CRAP from them, MB's that the serial ports did not work, MB's that did not fit a standard size. A ten pack of Zip disks but only 5 included. Old refurbed or completely dead Fujitsu HD's (at that time frame, Fujitsu had huge problems), remarked equipment etc.. Often times, some of the problems could be resolved but it required a lot of internal paperwork and phone calls. For the items we were shorted, the common excuse from them was that it was backordered and we should expect it later but the PO clearly stated order was complete and the count on the PO indicated everything was included. It was a complete scam and being a tech recieving the junk, it was not really worth the time to stop it.

Again, I've been out of the Navy for a while now so things may have changed.

--
Bad boys rape our young girls but Violet gives willingly.

In order to provide a complete article... by Rocky1138 · 2004-03-17 05:30 · Score: 1

... they should have: 1. Ordered a computer and watched to see if it ever came or not. 2. If the computer did come, then review it just like any other computer. Put it to the test to see if the stats are really real. If they are not, send the computer back with the threat of false advertising. 3. During the interview process, it should have been asked where his store was exactly and that store should have been checked to see if it was real. I was actually surprised at how shitty the article was. It's definitely not Tom's Hardware material.

Re:In order to provide a complete article... by Tony+Hoyle · 2004-03-17 06:02 · Score: 1

Toms Hardware doing a shitty article?

Well I never.....

reminds me.. by drxenos · 2004-03-17 05:32 · Score: 1

Remember when "multimedia" computers were all the rage? There was this guy at a computer fair selling what he called multimedia computers. No sound card, no cd drive, no speakers. Why multimedia? He said because they had BOTH a 5 1/4 and a 3 1/2 floppy drives!

--

Anonymous Cowards suck.

HOLY FSB BATMAN!!! by g0bshiTe · 2004-03-17 05:33 · Score: 1

I want a pc with 1600 mhz FSB!!!

Why the Bus alone is faster than my current pc's main processor.

This guy is damaging to the legitimate online dealers out there. A few people see the inflated scores and think they'll purchase this from him because it's faster than what was on the other site. Being nontechnical they neglect to think about the fact that the products are the same.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the Mac G5 was the fastest processor you could buy to date. ( I prefer PC running AMD )
Please no flames.

--
I am Bennett Haselton! I am Bennett Haselton!

Re:HOLY FSB BATMAN!!! by Violet+Null · 2004-03-17 05:39 · Score: 1

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the Mac G5 was the fastest processor you could buy to date. ( I prefer PC running AMD )
Please no flames.

If you want a 1600 Mhz FSB and like AMD, I recommend you just go ahead and get an AMD chip with a 1600 Mhz FSB. Like this one.
Re:HOLY FSB BATMAN!!! by g0bshiTe · 2004-03-17 05:41 · Score: 1

SWEET... Thanks for the tip!

--
I am Bennett Haselton! I am Bennett Haselton!

Let me sum up by fudgefactor7 · 2004-03-17 05:33 · Score: 1

"Is it possible that Michael's Computers sells a computer that can get 17000+ on 3DMark2003, and boot up in 7.7 seconds? Is it possible that they sell any computers at all?"

Fuck no! Not fucking possible! Jesus H. Underwear, if you beleive the hype you're better off giving your money to that Nigerian scam!

That's what THG should have said, lawsuit or no. This guy is a scammer. How could his business sue when it doesn't exist according to the city hall record search?

No Respect by blunte · 2004-03-17 05:33 · Score: 1

I can't figure out why, but I have more respect for the Nigerian scammers than I do this guy.

This is a transparent Paypal scam.

Heck, he could learn a thing or two from Darl in the proper way to run a scam.

--
.sigs are for post^Hers.

The best part is... by Sinter · 2004-03-17 05:35 · Score: 1

The title on the http://www.michaelscomputers.com/ page reads:

"If you have to WAIT when clicked, your PC is too slow!"

Judging from the wonderful Slashdot effect (c), he should have followed his own advice.

-Sinter

--
From Wherever to Whenever.

Re:Geico by jedi_gras · 2004-03-17 05:36 · Score: 1

No, I didn't actually switch. I was just mocking that as well as the Michael's computer thing because the two seemed like they were both falsely advertising to consumers.

In fact, GEICO rates in my area were about 500-1000 over my current insurance carrier. Just make sure you do thorough research into whatever you buy before you buy it.

Re:My review of Tom's Hardare (read on)... by gosand · 2004-03-17 05:41 · Score: 1

At least you could post under your id. You still obessing over my comments? It is obvious to me who you are, and I went and checked your journal. Wow. Dude, you need to chill. You really think that you upset me? Hardly. Funny how you have a journal entry about some tactics you claim were used against you, and now you are using them. Whatever. You can follow me around on Slashdot if you want, but there really is no point. I don't care.

--

My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.

Brooklyn Bridge, I DO own it by johnmig · 2004-03-17 05:51 · Score: 5, Funny

My great-grandfater actually bought the Brooklyn Bridge (OK so he paid for it). This was about 1910 or there-abouts. He was living in Little Italy with his sons and daughter. They were out making a living, by being sand-hogs (digging the subways for those of you who don't know) or tailoring/seamstressing, but Great-Grandpa wasn't working, evidently he got out of practice while still in the Old Country and never really got back into the swing of it (that's a separate story). So while wandering about the town, he comes into the proverbial huckster selling the Brooklyn Bridge. As this is a limited-time offer, he has to put the money down right away, i.e. before talking to his sons who have a better command of the language and know about this particular con. So that night, over the family dinner table, he say to his brood that their money troubles are over, he's just bought the bridge outside the window for $500. All they have to do is put up toll booth and they are set. At this point the kids pick up their jaws from the table and figure out how they can get Pop out of the City pronto. The next morning, they go to the train station, go to the end of the line, and find a place to move the family. So that's why my relatives live where they do. i figure out that I can tell this story, any gullibiity genes involved have been diluted 8-fold by know, so I'm probably OK.

Re:Brooklyn Bridge, I DO own it by Lord_Dweomer · 2004-03-17 20:07 · Score: 2, Funny

Just out of curiosity, where do your relatives live now?

--
Buy Steampunk Clothing Online!
Re:Brooklyn Bridge, I DO own it by bryan1945 · 2004-03-18 00:33 · Score: 1

I'm just wondering why the kids felt the need to leave the city? Pop got scammed, not like he killed a cop or a mobster.

--
Vote monkeys into Congress. They are cheaper and more trustworthy.

Seems to me... by suman28 · 2004-03-17 05:51 · Score: 1

This is nothing but a big marketing scam. Imagine. He now has a bunch of computer geeks going to his website. What more could you ask for? It's crazy for Tom's Hardware to do anykind of investigation. What next, the Nigerian scam because they use computers supplied by MichealsComputers.com to send massive amounts of emails?

Re:Seems to me... by ChopsMIDI · 2004-03-17 06:25 · Score: 1

What next, the Nigerian scam because they use computers supplied by MichealsComputers.com

Funny...Nigeria is mentioned in the interview! You might be on to something, there.

--

How could I say to men: "Speak louder, shout! For I am deaf!"? -Ludwig van Beethoven

michaelscomputers.com slashdotted by Tongue+In+A+Box · 2004-03-17 05:52 · Score: 0

Maybe this guy should consider running his website on his own computers. They would never go down and probably run Windows Server 2006 with backups running Linux 3.2. Think of the storage with Exabyte Raid in one tower!

Where's Roger Cook? I'll tell you.... by adamofgreyskull · 2004-03-17 06:07 · Score: 1

IIRC from an article in the *cough*Mail on Sunday*cough* a few days ago, he's drawing a 6-figure salary even though he hasn't made a television programme in over 4 years.

Does NOT Sell to the Navy by goldspider · 2004-03-17 06:08 · Score: 4, Interesting

The U.S. Navy has an exclusive infrastructure contract with EDS. The program is called the Navy and Marine Corps Intranet (NMCI). I should know, I work for the Navy and have to deal with the crap EDS sold us on a daily basis.

This Michael guy is a 100% liar.

--
"Ask not what your country can do for you." --John F. Kennedy

Re:Does NOT Sell to the Navy by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-18 01:01 · Score: 0

Some parts of the Navy are (thankfully) still not included in that NMCI mess. We do research here and a locked-down MS-based system would be useless to us except for e-mail. We can order anything we want from anywhere, as long as we make the sole-source specification look convincing enough.

However, we haven't bought any of Michael's PCs.

Ironic? by sharkey · 2004-03-17 06:09 · Score: 1

Here is www.michaelscomputers.com/. Here is Google's cache. Gotta love his claim that, if you have to wait when you click, your PC too slow.

--

--
"Outlook not so good." That magic 8-ball knows everything! I'll ask about Exchange Server next.

Well? by MImeKillEr · 2004-03-17 06:11 · Score: 1

I didn't watch the videos, but if they actually talked to the guy, did they manage to get systems to review?

Even if they did, I find the numbers hard to believe.

--
Cruising the internet on my TI-99/4A @ a whopping 300 baud!

As heard on 95.5 KLOS! by adamofgreyskull · 2004-03-17 06:12 · Score: 1

"Michael's Computers supply machines to provide silent pauses between songs and adverts."

BBB Listing by jsimon12 · 2004-03-17 06:14 · Score: 1

I think this is the same place:

Michael's Computers

Judge for yourself....

Re:Michael's Computers by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-17 06:17 · Score: 0

Stick it all in a PT Cruiser and you have the whole set.

Bah by The+Creator · 2004-03-17 06:21 · Score: 1

Sound more like a run of the mill case of mythomania.

--

FRA: STFU GTFO

Re:Bah by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-17 10:00 · Score: 0

professional manipulator
how could you be that natural in a such interview (tomshardware)

i bought one too! by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-17 06:21 · Score: 0

http://faculty.riohondo.edu/howie/my-monster.jpg

I wanted a storage area network, but could not afford it. Michael saved the day, but the case blew apart when I started it up.

Debunking THG by t_allardyce · 2004-03-17 06:24 · Score: 2, Funny

A site calling itself "Toms Hardware Guide" is claiming that Michael's Computers is a scam. We have recieved numerous emails regarding this, so we decided to investigate. We attempted to contact this so called "Guide" however they returned all our calls and promptly emailed us back with answers to our questions. We then asked them to disproove the performance claim and they responded:

"We would be happy to, please send us a review model"

With people like that you just cant win, so we looked a little closer at their so called claims:

"There is no AMD FX-51 3400+
Currently, there are no 500GB internal desktop hard drives. The only 500 GB drives are external firewire/USB2.0 drives, such as the ones made by LaCie."

There are two glaring mistakes here.

There are many 500Gb drives on the market and the AMD FX-51 3400+ is a special overclocked chip. When powering up the computer, which contains no fans, no noise is made and the machine boots up within 8 seconds. And by booting we are of course referring to the commanly used term for smoking.

--
This comment does not represent the views or opinions of the user.

Years of Experience!! by Monokeros · 2004-03-17 06:31 · Score: 3, Funny

If you go to www.michaelscomputers.com they reveal that they have increased both the speed AND stability of Windows! They did it with their "years of experience". Michael's Computers are truly heroes.

(The claim is in the translucent slideshow. Wait for it. . .)

--
The Statue of Liberty is America's lawn jockey.

April Fool's joke by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-17 06:31 · Score: 0

They're just getting everyone all worked up about it.

Micheal's in the wrong business... by plopez · 2004-03-17 06:43 · Score: 1

he should be selling software! Seriously, the claims he makes remind me of the outrageous claims software companies make about features, performance, security etc. about their vaporware. Micheal's mistake is that claims are easier to confirm or refute with hardware than with software. Something to think about....

(yes, I know I am cynical, but having been burned a number of times I think it is a fair assesment)

--
putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+

Michael Gonzales = Toby Blair? by Cardbox · 2004-03-17 06:47 · Score: 1

Same M.O.

Interview skills by y2imm · 2004-03-17 06:49 · Score: 2, Insightful

I like these hard hitting interviews better when the interviewer doesn't come off sounding like a 14 year old boy shaking in his boots. That guy was laughing his ass off inside.

whois information by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-17 06:49 · Score: 0

whois for michaelscomputers.com

Gonzales, Michael
6642 ALEXANDRIA DR
HUNTINGTON BH, CA 92647-2620
(714) 962-5614

Calling the number goes into an answering machine or voice mail after 4-5 rings.

Re:whois information by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-17 06:56 · Score: 0

Even better than whois, search www.bbb.org for "Michael's Computers" in California. It returns this address, which Tom's says is his home address:

MICHAELS COMPUTERS
844 Padilla Street
SAN GABRIEL, CA

Then go to www.whitepages.com and do a reverse address lookup. It will give you his home phone number:

(626) 282-0487
Re:whois information by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-17 06:59 · Score: 0

Doesn't Slashdot have some sort of policy about posting personal information on a public messageboard, like, say, almost every other messageboard on the Internet? Have you no scruples!?
Re:whois information by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-17 07:00 · Score: 0

Answering machine, most likely he lives with his parents:

"Joe and Margie's residence. Leave a message and we'll get back to you as soon as we can."
Re:whois information by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-17 07:09 · Score: 0

you're new here aren't you
Re:whois information by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-17 07:29 · Score: 0

Going to his webpage now shows:

Account for domain michaelscomputers.com has been suspended

Correcting the anonymous troll by Kommet · 2004-03-17 06:56 · Score: 2, Funny

Fat nerd girl finds fat nerd guy on slashdot.

It's a match made in fucking heaven. Please don't cyber-reproduce, we have enough overweight uglies in the world as it is.

Correction: Cute, 20-year old from Wisconsin meets lord only knows what (Chalybeous has no homepage linked).

musingmelpomene, welcome to the 20's. In my experience they tend to suck less than the teens.

Re:Correcting the anonymous troll by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-17 09:03 · Score: 0

But then the 30's suck more than both combined.
Re:Correcting the anonymous troll by Chalybeous · 2004-03-17 09:12 · Score: 1

"Lord only knows what"? Well, that's the nicest thing anyone's said about me in the last couple of years.

I dunno how life is where you guys -- sorry, you trolls -- come from, but over here we have something called conversation.
The people with whom I spend my days are somewhat lacking in IQ, spritely repartee, banter, culture... I've learned the hard way that the best attitude towards finding anything special online is healthy scepticism.
On the other hand, it sure wouldn't go amiss to have someone intelligent and literate to talk to. So, sorry to disappoint anyone hoping for something sordid - not my cup of tea.
And also sorry to disappoint re: lack of a homepage. I'm not terribly inclined towards HTML, and everyone knows that "there's no place like 127.0.0.1" ;-)

We now return you to our scheduled off-topic half-conversation and excessive trolling

--
"It is dark. You are likely to be eaten by a grue." -- Zork

AWESOME!!! by Jafafa+Hots · 2004-03-17 06:58 · Score: 1

Damn, I have been looking for a good new system! Thanks for the link! I placed an order!

--
This space available.

Re:My review of Tom's Hardare (read on)... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-17 07:03 · Score: 0

im not the person youre referring to. i was one of the ac's who replied to your comment.

get over your paranoia. no one is going to spy on you and take over your life.

if you dont care why did you bother to reply

twit

Not fully fradulent by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-17 07:03 · Score: 2, Interesting

I bought a machine from them. The 3d mark was correct, although it was done through driver "optimizations" that resulted in nearly useless image quality.

Otherwise, my impression is that the chips are overclocked. Hence, the somewhat shakey description of the notebook chips.

I have no idea what the deal is with the advertised weight on the notebooks. It is unrealistic, although the system I bought from them was a desktop, so I can't really comment. Nor can I comment on the "Windows 2004."

The FAQ by Mateito · 2004-03-17 07:04 · Score: 2, Funny

From the FAQ at Michael's Computers:

Where many systems today are built with just the "fastest" processor, we dive deeper into incorporating the true components that allow every application you run, to run at the fastest speed possible.

Ie.. we overclock everything until it steams, then write on our own numbers on in yellow crayon.

I only choose Michael's Computers over any other company because it?s far better to know the maker and someone you can trust and is a Christian.

Yep. I pray for the forgiveness of my sins on Sunday so I don't don't to hell for lying through my teeth the other 6

--
Norman Cook's Ode to Sl

Off Topic by Kommet · 2004-03-17 07:05 · Score: 1

Just read your Bio on livejournal.

All I can say is: FUCK! I used to think I was smart.

I took a bunch of AP and some college classes early, but never skipped grades (turned it down to stay with my friends), so maybe the case is that I AM smart but you beat the shit out of me in motivation...

Kudos to you, though.

One of the editors.... by VoraciousGorak · 2004-03-17 07:06 · Score: 2, Informative

...posted a thread in Futuremark.com's forums about their investigation, so the "Onions" who dwell there (myself included) knew about this a while ago. Unfortunately for the poor editor, his colleague had already alienated the Onions by posting some very incendiary anti-AMD and anti-AMD-user articles in THG, and so the editor who posted there didn't receive any help at all. He actually got flamed out of the forum and the thread got deleted.

On that note, it would take a SERIOUS n00b to believe any of the BS from Michael's Computers. All they need do is look at the FM ORB and realize the highest score EVER ACHIEVED using stock settings is just over 10000 (10008, to be exact).

Actually, now that I read the article, I must take a chuckle at the 500GB HyperDrives. I'll take one for my X-Wing, please.

As I said a few days ago on the FM forums... I think my bullshitometer just overloaded.

Athlon 64 notebook is a Mitac by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-17 07:10 · Score: 1, Informative

I'm pretty sure that the Athlon 64 notebook is a Mitac 8355 -- the same as sold by Hypersonic and Voodoo. There are quite a few vendors that sell this model. A partial listing is found here.

I bought one from Hyperdata which is basically the retail front for Sunrex. I'm very happy with it so far, it seems well put together and haven't noticed any hardware defects.

This is definitely not for someone who plans to carry their laptop around all day, but it's fine for occassionally lugging to work, conferences, vacation, etc. Besides, the performance and largeish screen are very nice.

I was daring and ordered mine sans OS. After a couple of tries and a little poking around on the web I was able to install Fedora Core 1 (x86-64 version) successfully. The 2 main tricks are

disable frame buffering during install, "linux nofb"
the installer won't recognize the Radeon 9600 mobility, you have to hand configure and use the VESA driver

With the above two tricks an out-of-the-box FC1 install is quite usable. Some deficiencies noted:

underperforming video driver (no surprise)
wireless kernel module not found
misc minor software issues that are probably due more to the imaturity of FC1 x86-64.

I think most of these issues could be resolved with just a little tinkering, but I don't have the time. My plan is to wait for FC2 official release and hope most of the problems magically go away.

Maybe it's me... by DarkHelmet · 2004-03-17 07:10 · Score: 2, Informative

But even if I didn't know anything about computer hardware and such, here's the part that I noticed that would raise the red flag:

There's no dynamic element to the webpage, whatsoever!!!

There's no shoppping cart system, at all! All that's there is a "buy now" paypal link on each of the product pages.

Maybe it's me, but using a third party processor like Paypal, Ibill, whatnot, holds against a company's legitimacy. Sadly, I'd be better off giving my credit card number over the net to another store because at least those who can process credit card orders through the web have a merchant account.

Places that have merchant accounts are very picky about chargebacks. A company like Michael's Computers wouldn't be able to have one for very long.

--
/^[A-Z0-9._%+-]+@[A-Z0-9.-]+\.[A-Z]{2,4}$/i

Hurrah! by poot_rootbeer · 2004-03-17 07:15 · Score: 1

My least favorite Slashdot editor finally gets what's coming to him!

Site has been suspended by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-17 07:20 · Score: 0

There's a surprise, wonder how that happened? ;)

Don't Forget by starcraftsicko · 2004-03-17 07:25 · Score: 5, Funny

How about "Featured on Slashdot"

hahahaha by f13nd · 2004-03-17 07:26 · Score: 1

PWND

--
www.necroticobsession.com

Finally... by Ghengis · 2004-03-17 07:26 · Score: 1

It took a while, but the /. effect has finally brought www.michaelscomputers.com to it's knees!!!

--

"The best laid plans of mice and men gang oft agley..." - ROBERT BURNS

Sir, I will not allow you to impune his character! by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-17 07:28 · Score: 0

Darl is a straight arrow. I happened to run into him in Thailand. And you'd think he'd be all about the "bars", the moon party, the prostitution (like Neil Bush appearently), or the gambling. But no. He was all about traveling around to remote villages helping the poorest youth of the country. Particularly the young boys. He kept saying he wanted to do for them what was done for him, "help them become men." Technically he called them smooth young boys, which I found odd, but I was pretty drunk at that point. And generous too, he wouldn't let me pay for a single drink!

Amazing... by jumbali · 2004-03-17 07:29 · Score: 2, Insightful

Man, anybody think about journalism school?

Not only was a blown away by the quality of the interview, but that solid interview took my sucked the air out o' my lungs.

In the future, he should consider watching the evening news to see how an interview is traditionally handled or visit the local newspaper for a fast lesson in 'getting the scoop'.

He had plenty of time to research this guy -- why not put together a list of useful questions on that fancy yellow tablet we see at the end?

What kinds of questions would you have asked him?

michaelscomputers.com domain by crawdaddy · 2004-03-17 07:33 · Score: 1

Looks like someone has a bandwidth cap!

Re:Michael's Computers by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-17 07:37 · Score: 0

We would but the Pancake Eating Ninjas are in it, with OOG THE CAVEMAN driving.

Slashdotted out of business by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-17 07:38 · Score: 0

Account for domain michaelscomputers.com has been suspended

Anybody notice the L1/L2 Cache size?! by pballsim · 2004-03-17 07:40 · Score: 1

For being so meticulous on every product (specifying USB 2.0/USB 1.0/Firewire) with the number of ports, even Windows XP 2004. Even getting exact numbers for the number of decibels, ratings, etc.

But the L1/L2 cache is 1000. Anybody notice the problem w/ this number? The fact if it is true that it's 1000b then you just wasted money on 488,b it should be 1024. No computer person would make this mistake because it's ingrained in our heads. And he isn't doing it to make it easier for users (since he's talking about 256-bit video cards).

Scared off or /.ed? by Drathos · 2004-03-17 07:50 · Score: 1

If you try to go to the website, you'll find it's been suspended.

I wonder if he got scared off or if Planet Net (his hosting service) suspended him due to a /.ing..

--
End of line..

Suspended by Casisiempre · 2004-03-17 07:51 · Score: 1

http://www.michaelscomputers.com/ Domain has been suspended. I wonder why? (sarcasm)

I have an addition by MonkeyCookie · 2004-03-17 07:54 · Score: 1

90 Lawnmower, loud home stereo
87 My computer with its noisy fans
85 Jackhammer at 15 meters (50 feet)
80 Moderate home stereo, ringing telephone
75 Average City Street
70 Freeway traffic, TV audio
60 Normal Conversation

Great... by Inuchance · 2004-03-17 07:56 · Score: 1

Great, michaelscomputers.com is slashdotted already. Now how am I supposed to get the world's fasted laptop!?

Fastest Computer by SpookyMark · 2004-03-17 08:00 · Score: 1

Well looks like whatever Toms Hardware did it caused this place to shot down, at least the website is off like. It is good to see that some scammers dont get away with it.

This website is temporarily unavailable. by gaudior · 2004-03-17 08:09 · Score: 1

Either the slashdot effect has kicked in, or THG's review has.

Re:My review of Tom's Hardare (read on)... by gosand · 2004-03-17 08:15 · Score: 1

Bwahaha. I can't believe you took that bait. No reply, I would have thought I made a mistake. But no, it is you. Jeez dude, it is just slashdot, let it go. Why take the time to reply to my posts as AC? Are you trying to build up the karma on your other account so you can mod me down? ROFL. You say paranoid, I say noting the obvious.

Keep following me around I guess, I may just reply once in a while for fun. But you should really just let it go.

--

My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.

Re:Mod down this liar by Strange+Ranger · 2004-03-17 08:32 · Score: 2, Informative

Oh geez alright then I hate the guy, whatever. I really don't care.

I do care just a little about my rep here on /. though. How about googling for "Strange Ranger"? Unless you think I opened this account years ago and have been posting lies all along because I was planning to someday defend my false advertising? Get real.

I'll check that link out at home, blocked from here/work. But I do remember the cheesy giant eagle and such. If you look at what I wrote I said it was LESS over the top, I didn't say he wasn't making claims, but yes he has gotten worse, much worse. Maybe he's not selling enough and got more desperate. I really don't know. I also said, "I always ignored his marketing", I knew he was a one man show so the marketing foibles didn't bother me. I got what I wanted out of him at a decent price. And the service HAS BEEN good. I wouldn't buy again because instead of exaggerating in his marketing (oh yeah like THAT's so rare, esp for a one-man operation) now he seems to have gone off the deep end. He's got a "sound system" he says is louder than a space shuttle launch and a cooling system that is quieter than soft human breathing on a heavily overclocked PC?? I dunno, maybe he hit his head! Haha. My main point of the post was the last few lines...

IT takes more than a $Widget expert to run a $Widget business. Case-in-point - his site is now down and he's not selling anything at all.

--

Operator, give me the number for 911!

Check this one out by zakezuke · 2004-03-17 08:34 · Score: 1

http://rectaltronics.com/

I was actually searching for info on Dec Vax systems, and I found this page. And indeed I found something that was compatable with the VAXstation... looked into it.. and it was the "Compatibility Guide for Rectaltronics(tm) Butt-Plug Systems"

It's pretty professional looking, I wasn't sure what analbus was at the time, and I was shocked to discover they were selling buttplugs. To prove whether it was a joke I tried to order to 1111 any street with the credit card 4444 4444 4444 4444, and at that point they freely admited it's just a joke.

--
There is no sanctuary. There is no sanctuary. SHUT UP! There is no shut up. There is no shut up.

actually, that 3dmark2003 score is possible... by Barbarian · 2004-03-17 08:35 · Score: 2, Insightful

If you set the screen resolution to 640x480x16 and turn all the 3D setting to "fastest" in the ATI control panel.

It just happens to be that the "standard" 3dmark03 test is 1024x768x32 bits. You have to run at that setting to upload your score to the Futuremark online resultbrowser, which is why the highest score there is 10008 right now.

So you technically can get 17000 in 3dmark2003, just not at any reasonable resolution.

Red Hat Pre-load? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-17 08:45 · Score: 0

Any chance he has an advance copy of Red Hat Enterprise Server 20?

Poor guy! by cojoco · 2004-03-17 08:57 · Score: 1

Hi,

Tom's Hardware didn't present any proof
that this Michael guy had actually defrauded
his customers: his claims may be a bit
exaggerated, but it sounds like he actually
delivers hardware to people.

I think that Tom was hoping for a real "scam",
but he only came up with someone who exaggerates.

Poor Michael!

No doubt! by macdaddy · 2004-03-17 09:02 · Score: 1, Informative

Usually the weaker the evidence, the more someone tries to insist they ar [sic] right.

You can say that again:

"Simply stated, there is no doubt that Saddam Hussein now has weapons of mass destruction."
- Dick Cheney, speech to VFW National Convention

"Right now, Iraq is expanding and improving facilities that were used for the production of biological weapons."
- George W. Bush, speech to UN General Assembly, Sept. 12, 2002

"The world is also uniting to answer the unique and urgent threat posed by Iraq."
- George W. Bush, Nov. 23, 2002

Re:Mod down this liar by justins · 2004-03-17 09:07 · Score: 1

I knew he was a one man show so the marketing foibles didn't bother me.

"Lies". The word is "lies". I suppose the decision to get outraged about being lied to is sort of a personal thing, perhaps it doesn't bother everyone.

--
Now before I get modded down, I be to remind whoever might read this that what I am saying is FACT. - bogaboga

Actually, this guy is legit... sort of. by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-17 09:14 · Score: 0

I can confirm this because I actually own one of his computers. It's an OK machine, and it's served me well.

But it certainly doesn't meet the outrageous specs he gave, or the price he charged me!

Re:Tom's is going to get sued by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-17 09:25 · Score: 0

Yes, I read about that site you mentioned with the polished marble stone. Here is the link:

http://www.go-l.com/desktops/machl38/features/in de x.htm

Engineered from the ground up with blistering performance and high-end capabilities in mind, the revolutionary Mach 3.8 is a giant leap in personal computing, incorporating both supercomputing technologies and industry first original hardware designs. It is the first Super-BIOS(TM) (IBPT) and PuRam(TM) Technology featured personal computer configurable WITHOUT a System Hard Drive with all operating system and program files permanently sitting a on a Flash RamDisk. It operates at the speed of the maximum available memory bandwidth up to 8.5GB/s and is capable of over 150,000 I/O requests per second, with an average of 0.0% CPU utilization. No Hard Disk design, not even 15.000RPM SCSI devices in multiple RAID cofigurations can come close to providing a fraction of the real-world performance of PuRam(TM) Technology.
(Sounds like a fast as hell instant on ramdrive to me)

and

It is also the first commercially available Personal SuperComputer with an Accelerated Front Side Bus speed of 950MHz** taking Intel's Pentium 4 CPU to speeds 3.8GHz*. It is the first widely available personal computer using Intelligent Bios Priority Threading Technology (IBPT) allied to Asetek's Enhanced Sub-Zero Vapor Compression CPU Cooling Architecture. This is the first personal computer taking full advantage of up to 566Mhz Dual-Channel DDR memory with over 8.4GB/s bandwidth, the first with up to 2 Terabytes of storage capacity, and the first featuring enhanced CacheFlow(TM) Memory Technology. The Mach 3.8 does not just beat the competition. It is a class of its own, a unique machine of unthinkable capabilities, radically shattering all competition.
(are these the optimizations Michael was speaking of? totally possible)

http://www.go-l.com/desktops/index.htm
(more good info here)

Here is a prime example of a VERY reputable site, which arguably makes the FASTEST laptops and desktops using ramdrives, instant on sub 4s technology, that potentially at 640x480 or the lowest possible rez achieve 17,000 in 3dMark, with raided hard drives, and everything else to boot. Tom's hardware has gotten themselves into a sticky situation, and better try to make amends QUICK. Michael, find a good lawyer and sue him for all he's worth.

Re:Mod down this liar by cardshark2001 · 2004-03-17 09:26 · Score: 1

I still find your post a little suspicious, seeing as you're the only person who actually seems to have gotten a computer from this guy, he doesn't have a business license, he sells stuff that doesn't exist, he doesn't seem to have an office, he makes up complete lies about who his customers are, he claims to have talked to reviewers who never talked to him, he seems clueless with tech specs, he gives the runaround to the Tom's people when they ask him for a review machine, etc.

Can't you see why it's hard to believe that he actually shipped you a machine?

I've looked at your posting history and you seem as though you're a reasonable person, but then, so does this guy in the online interview he had with the Tom's reporter.

To top it off, you make a big deal about a seven year warranty, as though that's some kind of selling point. Seven years ago a P1 was a top of the line machine.

It's really hard to believe you, especially considering how many other people say they just plain got ripped off and he never shipped them anything. If you're legit, I apologize for calling you a liar, but surely you must see how I would come to that conclusion?

--
WWJD? JWRTFA!

Here is doubt and reson to doubt. by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-17 09:32 · Score: 0

Your claim requires that every species connected by small steps of missing species, which in turn requires that nothing in biology is irreduciably complex.

When in fact you look through a microscope, you will certainly find that life is irreduciably complex.

The first thing I will point out is the process by which proteins are manufactured from the information encoded in mRNA. I won't bother to explain the process as it could be easily found in any first semester biology textboox, but the required elements are the two rRNA pieces of the ribosome, forty-five tRNA fragments, forty-five enzymes that bind the ameno acids to the tRNA strands, and a stabalizing protein within the ribosome.

Unless all 93 pieces are in place, the system does not work at all. QED

Re:Here is doubt and reson to doubt. by Jim+the+Bad · 2004-03-17 10:49 · Score: 1

When in fact you look through a microscope, you will certainly find that life is irreduciably complex.

In your opinion.

Unless all 93 pieces are in place, the system does not work at all. QED

Go to your car, open the bonnet look at all the stuff in there. Most likely, if you remove any one of the many many components, your car wouldn't work, right? Therefore, your car engine is 'Irreducibly complex', and therefore no earlier design of engine can possibly have ever existed. QED.

(OK, OK, it's spurious argument, I know, but I think it gets the point across without pages of argument drifting ever further off-topic.)

--
-- And when Justice is gone, there is always... Force. --Laurie Anderson, "Oh Superman"
Re:Here is doubt and reson to doubt. by the+gnat · 2004-03-17 16:37 · Score: 1

but the required elements are the two rRNA pieces of the ribosome, forty-five tRNA fragments, forty-five enzymes that bind the ameno acids to the tRNA strands, and a stabalizing protein within the ribosome.

Unless all 93 pieces are in place, the system does not work at all.

This is not entirely correct. To begin with you've left out some pieces: there are a number of other proteins which are required for translation, including a number of initiation factors. Loss of any one of these factors is lethal. However. . .

Search on pubmed.gov for "IRES", which stands for "Internal ribosome entry site." These are RNA sequences (typically intronic regions in a gene) which can initiate protein translation by the ribosome in the absence of some or all of the initiation factors. The most advanced IRESes are in viruses which attack eukartoyes, but there are some in eukaryotes themselves as well.

Until these RNAs were discovered, the initiation machinery could have been called "irreducably complex". This is now demonstrably not the case. In fact, one could reasonably hypothesize that early organisms lacked all initiation factors, and that initiation was mediated entirely by intronic RNAs. (Which would fit well with other observations about the changing roles of RNA and protein.)

Re:Mod down this liar by Strange+Ranger · 2004-03-17 09:34 · Score: 2, Insightful

I'll look in the wayback machine when I get home, but I don't remember any outright lies. At the time I remember thinking he seemed like the over-zealous salesman. I was thinking, geez if I (and most "geeks") tried to be a salesman... well I KNOW I would suck at it, same as salesmen suck at tech.

I'm not defending him at, I'm just relating one relevant personal experience. That's it.

--

Operator, give me the number for 911!

That's fine and dandy... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-17 09:37 · Score: 0

But do they offer Linux as an OS installation?!

Re:That's fine and dandy... by Krojack · 2004-03-17 10:45 · Score: 2, Funny

sure they do.. it come with kernel 3.0.0

Er! Re:Review doesnt go far enough by LookSharp · 2004-03-17 09:42 · Score: 2, Informative

I'd like to have seen THG actually buy one of these alleged machines...

They asked for a review unit repeatedly, were denied in person and emails went unanswered.

Not that I blame you for not reading the article, Tom only puts fifteen words per ad-page. There used to be a "Print this Article" link that would give it to you all at once, but I couldn't find it today.

Re:Tom's is going to get sued by Jonas79 · 2004-03-17 09:55 · Score: 2, Informative

1. FX-51 3400+ According to every review I've read, the FX-51 is speed rated at 3400+. Obviously there is no FX-51 that RUNS at 3400mhz, but does it say that in the add here (http://www.tomshardware.com/column/20040317/too_g ood_to_be_true-03.html)? Of course not, it simply says 3400+ which could be, and probably is, the speed rating.

The A64 FX processors don't use the XX00+ marketing numbers. He has also claimed that the processor is custom made just for him. That's just BS.

2. Currently, there are no 500GB internal desktop hard drives. Apparantly Mr. Tom needs to read the details a little more. What brand is the drive? It's a Michael's TXK drive. Hmm, sounds like Michael creates his own drive. How? Well if you use some basic logic, you can determine that this is nothing other than two 250gb drives in raid. Was that really hard to deduce Tommy? Oh, and there is nothing immoral, illegal, or fraudulent to raid two drives and then re-name them as your own. And before one of you decides to flame this post, re-read what was just said. There is nothing immoral, illegal, or frauduelnt in raiding two drives and renaming them as your own.

Here you are corrrect. He said on his site that it was a RAID array. Nothing strange there.

3. Boot time of 4s Man Tom, I've really lost all credibility for a site that doesn't know what a ram drive is. If you check here (http://www.tomshardware.com/column/20040317/too_g ood_to_be_true-02.html) you find the words "instant on" which again, further the truth that this is a ramdrive. There is another company which claims comparable numbers. I don't have the URL now but it was hosted in quite a few hardware reviews - and they use polished marble as their brand and place it in each desktop and laptop. They too use ramdrives in BOTH desktops and laptops. Granted, it's ungodly expensive to have ~4gb of ram setup with the proper software to utilize it as a ramdrive, and battery backup, but yes, this will provide instant on sub 4s boottime Tomster.

You need to get your "facts" straight. A RAM drive looses all it's information when the power goes off and needs to be reloaded from a hard drive at boot. There is NO WAY to get any pc to boot in 4 seconds. At least not into Windows.

5. .11db So he sound dampens his shit with a hell of a lot of insulation. Big deal. Next.

I don't think you understand how low that is. He says that he uses Antec power supplies, and although they are quite, they are not silent... .11 dba would be eight times quiter than a person breathing (~10dba remember it's a logaritmic scale). That is also BS.

6. 3DMark 17k If you can't prove he didn't score this, then don't say he can't achieve it. Granted that number seems unatainable, but who knows.

Yeah, and pigs can fly. 17k in 3DMark03 is not possible... The record is 10008 points and that is with an extremely overclocked P4 and extremely overclocked 9800XT.
And then there is the Windows XP 2004, claiming that the CPU has 1024 MB of cache in one email, claiming that he has won awards, claiming to have merged with vapochill...
There really isn't much truth anywhere, and I'm sorry, but I can't feel any sympathy for this man. He's just trying to screw ppl.

Another similar company... by moosesocks · 2004-03-17 10:02 · Score: 1

Another similar company i've run across lately has been Liebermann which, among other things, is expensive, and a complete knock-off of Apple.

I find the information presented on their site extremely hard to believe. Has anybody here had any experience in dealing with them?

--
-- If you try to fail and succeed, which have you done? - Uli's moose

Re:Another similar company... by nmbr6tech · 2004-03-17 16:53 · Score: 1

Actually these guys are legit from what I have seen. TechTv actually did a review of some of their preproduction stuff.

They don't seem to make outlandish comments either. The stuff they sell is very possible.

randis $1 mil is as fanciful as your parochial vie by waspleg · 2004-03-17 10:05 · Score: 0, Offtopic

the prize IS NOT IN ESCROW he doesn't even have the money to put it up, he refuses challenges from world-reknowned psychics like Sylvia Browne

you know, by Dave_bsr · 2004-03-17 10:06 · Score: 0, Troll

You know, kerry + many libs said the same thing, soon after 9/11. look it up. Everyone was talking about the threats Iraq posed, WMD's, and Iraq's link to terrorists.

--

Who is this Anonymous Coward character, how does he post so much, and why is he always such a whore?

Re:you know, by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-17 10:16 · Score: 0

They believed it because they were lied to.
Re:you know, by macdaddy · 2004-03-17 13:48 · Score: 1

I agree with the AC. They don't have access to classified intelligence report. They rely on the spokespeople for the head of the government not lying to them about the urgency of the situation.
Re:you know, by Larry+David · 2004-03-17 18:30 · Score: 1

Uh, and if the intelligence that Bush got also said they existed, and Bush repeated this, as he did.. is he really lying? Sure, but he didn't fabricate the lie, he just went on the intelligent his spooks got wrong.

Bush is no great leader, but if US intelligence can't even get shit right, how can he relay the 'truth'?
Re:you know, by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-18 01:03 · Score: 0

if the intelligence that Bush got also said they existed, and Bush
repeated this, as he did.. is he really lying? Sure, but he didn't fabricate
the lie, he just went on the intelligent his spooks got wrong.

Bush is no great leader, but if US intelligence can't even get shit right,
how can he relay the 'truth'?

"US intelligence" didn't get it factually correct because under the careful supervision of The White House through Cheney and the Office of Special Plans among others, "US intellegence" was never meant to get it factually correct. They were tasked with massaging any available data to fit The White House's preconcieved view-point that Iraq was a serious threat to the security of the United States. At the level of The White House, any data which confilicted with that view-point was systematically changed, deemphasized, discarded, or sent back to the CIA to be reevaluated.

This was done in the same general manner as so-called Creation Science[sic] attempts to massage data to support their preconcieved viewpoint that the Earth is relatively young and was created by their god, or their preconcieved viewpoint that evolution is a lie. In the cases of how both The White House and Creation Science[sic] adherents selectively pick and discard data it is the outcome which matters, not the facts. The facts, being inconvienent to them, have nothing to do with it.
Re:you know, by macdaddy · 2004-03-18 05:04 · Score: 1

Have you listened to the testimony of the CIA Director and the former White House and intelligence employees that say the White House told the CIA what they wanted to hear? It hasn't received lots of covereage in the news (no real surprise there) but listening to the actual testimony on C-SPAN has been most interesting. Basically I think we should fire them all and start over. :) I know a certain female House member from Texas that would make a damned fine President.
Re:you know, by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-20 13:39 · Score: 0

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/03/19/60minute s/main607356.shtml

US equivalent by GunFodder · 2004-03-17 10:07 · Score: 1

The same thing used to happen on 60 Minutes in the States. For all I know it still does; I don't watch it anymore.

Re:Mod down this liar by Strange+Ranger · 2004-03-17 10:15 · Score: 2, Interesting

I see how you could come to that conclusion. Apology accepted. See my above posts and others regarding the warranty thing. It was that, or pay more, or take one year.

Truthfully the more I dig into these forums and hear about what he had on his site since then the more happy I am he stopped offering his run-of-the-mill PC which I was recommending to folks for about 2 months. I WAS really impressed with his service remember, and the 7 year warranty has it's charms. See above poster on why it could be a good idea. His site looked naive then, it sounds pathological now but it went down and will surely be redesigned if somebody's lawyers don't get him first.
Hey can you analyze writing styles?

-----Original Message----- From: Michael (Michael's SuperComputers)
[mailto:michael@michaelscomputers.com]
Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2002 3:44 PM

Subject: RE: PC

I was all ready to ship yesterday. I had everything ready to be boxed up...but I knew inside that something had to be up since the benchmark always crashed. I had played a few games on it and nothing went wrong, but that benchmark...that is my bread and butter of showing off performance...it really bothered me. I sent off emails to gigabyte...they got back to me and said they couldn't figure it out.....I sent emails to ATI...they just said download latest drivers...I had done everything...even taken your system apart previously about 3 times in one day. It was turning into a labor of headache and true to a test of how much I love what I do. What I decided to do ultimately was start testing the system...I did a light 4MHz reduction to the memory which was needed to bring the 2.8 to 2.77. I just wanted to test how the system ran at a different setting. When your system was back on, I rand the benchmark.....WOW.....frame after frame after frame of solid eye candy with no dropouts...then I decided to play the ballerburg game I installed......SHEEEWW boom..cannons firing away, Castles burning down....sure the game worked before...but it just seemed....better? Indeed! Then after I was elated that I felt more than 100% satisfied (it took a long time to reach that [Strange Ranger]...look how long it's been!)...I received a call from Paul Lee who heads up Gigabyte and he tells me that they don't officially support the 2.8 but it might be supported with a BIOS update. He said I could run it at 2.53 and I said, well, it runs perfect at 2.77 and he was dumbfounded. This is what I deal with everyday [Strange Ranger].....technology changes/advances all the time...and it's even the manufacturers that lose track of what they are doing so a lot is left up to me. I am very excited for you bottom line....all hums smooth as can be. You will love it! I will provide you with a tracking # once it is online in a few hours. Thank you again [Strange Ranger]. Your Patience and understanding has been everything to me. I even cancelled my trip to Comdex in Las Vegas which I do yearly to stay in touch with my customers including you. My business is very important to me and I am working very hard on sales letters that will be going out to clients in my area. I could type forever...I will type more later [Strange Ranger]. Thank you again, Michael

Funny thing is, it wasn't the processor speed that was making it crash, I fiddled a ton and found it was the bus speed. The damn MB or more likely RAM didn't support a full 400MHz, so once I reduced the multiplier and now run stable at 2.98GHz but have the DDR set to 384 IIRC. Been awhile since I looked.

If that doesn't clear my good pseudonym I give up. Read that again too, he does sound enthusiastic and friendly. Maybe I was a sucker. But he did deliver for me, the pc and good service. That's all I can say for my part.

How could he never deliver a computer? He's just taking people's money and sending them nothing and nobody prosecutes... I mean where's the scam in that. His home address sure was easy to find.

--

Operator, give me the number for 911!

London Bridge by Tired+and+Emotional · 2004-03-17 10:36 · Score: 1

In London the story used to be that he thought he was getting Tower Bridge.

--
Squirrel!

Heh...do a view source on his website... by laddhebert · 2004-03-17 10:51 · Score: 2, Interesting

Check out his html source..Kind of odd..references to Bush and Kerry...Kerry sucks according to him.. Code:

<title>Michael's Computers - Worldwide - If you have to WAIT when clicked, your PC is too slow!</title> <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1"> <meta name="keywords" content="srt-10,kerry,bush,prescott,marina del rey,calabasas,camarillo,santa ana,huntington beach,irvine,westlake,agoura,oxnard,los angeles,orange county,anaheim,laguna niguel,aliso viejo,coto,san diego,texas,california,washington,nevada,ohio,okla homa,montana,new york,virginia,florida,mexico,japan,china,india,spa in,ireland,london,england,kingdom,switzerland,ariz ona,lousiana,arkansas,alaska,navy,marines,4.0,4.44 ,5.0,air force,best service,army,mx8,christ,jesus,bless,9800,geforcefx ,3dmark,madonion,futuremark,ben curtis,barton,radeon,ati,cad,math,geforce,cindy,ma rgolis,nforce,nvidia,engineers,workstations,server s,nicest,monitors,scanners,printers,cases,cool,vap or,kryotech,pimco,best,fastest,fast,computers,mich ael's,computer,dell,gateway,compaq,hp,apple,micro, alienware,falcon,gamers,business,education,graphic s,supercomputers,ultra,high,performance,amd,athlon 64,intel,cyrix,thunderbird,athlon,mustang,corvette ,sledgehammer,os,xp,pentium,pro,michaels,via,Penti umIII,Pentium3,PentiumIV,Pentium4,Itanium,rugged,r uggedized,world,17 Laptop,widescreen,MX7,357MX,athlon 64,best built"> <meta name="description" content="SRT-10 8 Year Warranty, Best Service and Top Quality components. Kerry Sucks and Bush Rules. Prescott Athlon 64 Available.MX8 and MX5 Perform Better, Look Better and Sound Better. 357MX"> </head>

-L

--
Don't Panic.

Re:randis $1 mil is as fanciful as your parochial by LordK3nn3th · 2004-03-17 10:54 · Score: 0, Offtopic

Bullshit, it is in escrow. In fact, the rules state that they will not pander to escrow requests due to the large amount of claims they need to test, but the JREF bent over backwards of Sylvia Browne and indeed placed it in escrow. Your little idol, Sylvia is the one evading the JREF. In fact, Sylvia won't accept any mail from the JREF.

www.randi.org

--

---
Never criticize religion on Slashdot. You will be modded down for "Troll" no matter how factual it is.

Re:Mod down this liar by pyrrhonist · 2004-03-17 10:56 · Score: 1

He's just taking people's money and sending them nothing and nobody prosecutes... I mean where's the scam in that.

You're kidding, right? It happens all the time. Try Google.

--
Show me on the doll where his noodly appendage touched you.

Re:randis $1 mil is as fanciful as your parochial by Drawkcab · 2004-03-17 10:58 · Score: 1, Informative

A description of the Randi/Browne fued from Randi's POV. I suppose that it comes down to who you find more credible, but in my mind it certainly isn't the phony psychic. "I don't really know why I'm spending any of my valuable time on the professional liar who uses the name Sylvia Browne. However, since I get so many questions from readers about what she says and writes about me and about the JREF, I have to do a certain amount of repair work from time to time. This examination of her recent mendacious tirades will not be kind. I've no obligation to be tolerant of this person, and I'm known to call 'em as I see 'em. She has freely attacked me in the media, making false and damaging statements about me, without any opposition from those who gave her the platform from which to deliver this trash. I'm answering in kind. The big difference in our approaches is that all of my response that follows is factual and provable. And it's damning to Browne. WHAT FOLLOWS IS STRONG, DIRECT, NO-HOLDS-BARRED, AND TRUE. I'll apologize in advance to my readers, so that I might be spared the expected murmers about how rude I was. Browne has viciously slandered and libeled me, in the public media, repeatedly. This is my response, and I don't give a damn whether she likes it or not. Read on, if you dare. As most of you will know, Sylvia owes her entire success to those two intellectual giants of TV -- Larry King and Montel Williams. These are two well-educated men who certainly are not themselves deceived by these "psychics" on whom they dote; they give them air-time and promote them freely because of the basic bottom line: all that matters to them is the program ratings, thus the opinion of their sponsors, and they know full well that they'll get maximum attention when any "psychic" matter is introduced on their programs. That's all they care about; truth is discarded when money is scented. Let's look back to just one particularly cruel hoax perpetrated by this woman Browne. Years ago on Montel Williams' show, she spoke to the grandmother of a local missing child, a six-year-old named Opal Jo Jennings who disappeared from her home in north Texas in March of 1999. Browne told the distraught woman that the child was still alive but had been sold into white slavery and was currently being held in Japan. She even gave a city name, but there is no such city in Japan. Moving ahead three years and nine months, we find that the body of little Opal was recovered -- just seven weeks ago; she had been killed by a blow to the head. Currently, there is a man in prison in Texas who has confessed to, and been convicted of, Opal Jo's abduction and murder. Think about what's happened here: Sylvia Browne callously raised the hopes of the family of this little child, placing the fictitious location on the other side of the world. She did this well after a comprehensive search had already been performed in Texas, so she was pretty sure that the girl would never be found. She thought she was safe against exposure. She wasn't; the body was found and definitively identified. That was a callous, cruel, manipulative act by Sylvia Browne. But no one calls her to account for it, and her supporters continue on in Lotusland cooing over her wonderful powers. You have to wonder how someone can do such a heartless act. Sylvia can, and does. Larry Thornton just sent me a tape and a transcript of the "Coast to Coast" radio show of Thursday, February 19th, 2004, Browne's most recent attack on me. The host was George Noory. There were three mentions of my name in this show, full of blatant lies and slander. Sylvia was at her best, which is to say, at her worst. First, asked by Noory about her agreement to do the test for the million-dollar JREF prize, she interrupted with: "He [Randi] doesn't have any money!" That statement by Sylvia Browne is a direct, knowing, lie. She has received documentary proof of the existence of the James Randi Educational Foundation Prize Account, along with a letter from Goldman, Sachs & Company stating that the account -- in "liquid

Re:Mod down this liar by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-17 11:05 · Score: 0

when he's a U.S. resident, his real first and last name is involved, and his home address easy to find? That's just looking for a Darwin Award. But.. point taken.

Sager by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-17 11:06 · Score: 0

I worked in the service department at a local PC store for about all of 2003 and in my experience Sager notebooks were a nightmare.

We had pissed off customers bringing them in with nasty hardware problems all the time, and it almost always took at least one month to get the system repaired by Sager. Many times we got the system back from Sager and it still had the same problem (would freeze up during Windows install or whatever). Overall they were big pieces of shit. We had far better luck with Spartan brand notebooks (I don't think they are Clevo). In my year I saw zero Spartan's that were in with hardware problems.

Re:My review of Tom's Hardare (read on) by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-17 11:09 · Score: 0

twit.

Re:Tom's is going to get sued by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-17 11:14 · Score: 0

The A64 FX processors don't use the XX00+ marketing numbers. He has also claimed that the processor is custom made just for him. That's just BS.
Yes, but "3400+" doesn't mean it's AMD's marketing number. Michael is saying the processor represents an equilivant processor running at that frequency. Plus, saying it's "custom made" is simply another way to say "overclocked."

You need to get your "facts" straight. A RAM drive looses all it's information when the power goes off and needs to be reloaded from a hard drive at boot. There is NO WAY to get any pc to boot in 4 seconds. At least not into Windows.
Who said anything about shutting down and rebooting into windows? Not I. RAM drives have battery backup, usually in the form of some UPS device, although not a large unit is necessary. The drive itself is in the form of a PCI card, and has an external battery connector. So, when you shutdown your PC, you really don't "exit" windows; rather it merely turns off the power to the system and the power for the ramdrive kicks in and stores your current settings. So, yes, this is a form of "rebooting." While it may not be the form you or I am familiar with, it's a form nonetheless. Also check the links pasted below, this is exactly what that other company offers with its ramdrives.

don't think you understand how low that is. He says that he uses Antec power supplies, and although they are quite, they are not silent... .11 dba would be eight times quiter than a person breathing (~10dba remember it's a logaritmic scale). That is also BS.
Still have to disagree. Yes, that's quiet, but it's not impossible, not by a long shot.

Yeah, and pigs can fly. 17k in 3DMark03 is not possible... The record is 10008 points and that is with an extremely overclocked P4 and extremely overclocked 9800XT.
And then there is the Windows XP 2004, claiming that the CPU has 1024 MB of cache in one email, claiming that he has won awards, claiming to have merged with vapochill...
There really isn't much truth anywhere, and I'm sorry, but I can't feel any sympathy for this man. He's just trying to screw ppl.
Look out your window, the pigs be flying. Lower the resolution to 640x480, turn off all the details, etc etc, and you'll be amazed at what score you can achieve.

Re:Tom's is going to get sued by Jonas79 · 2004-03-17 11:59 · Score: 1

Sigh... The A64 3400+ and the A64 FX-51 are quite different processors. The second one is more like an Opteron than an A64, but they perform almost IDENTICAL. I really don't see the point in calling the processor a made up name. Either processor is good.

I wouldn't call what you explained "booting" the computer and I seriously doubt that he has put in such a solution. There is no mentioning of that what so ever anywhere.

0.11 dba is NOT POSSIBLE. It's even almost impossible to measure that low :p Ambient noise everywhere is higher than that. Find me any computer with fans that's below ~20dba. I could agree that the computer has a noise level of 11 dba at some distance and even agree on calling that silent, but 0.11 dba is just stupid.

Even at 640x480 I'm having a hard time believing that he can achieve a score of 17k marks in 3DMark03. Remember that the 10k score was done with a VERY extreme computer. So, I don't see any pigs flying around here.

I think it's kinda funny and also sad that you are defending him. It's just so obcious that he's big fat LIAR. You can't find a review of any of his computers anywhere. He's just a troll messing with gullible people. I find it amazing that you can have such faith in a person like him...

I have nothing to do with this guy by YCrCb · 2004-03-17 12:30 · Score: 1

I Michael Peer of Huntington Beach, CA have nothing to do with this guy. :)

Idiot! by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-17 12:45 · Score: 0

Idiot Idiot Idiot Idiot Idiot
Idiot Idiot Idiot Idiot Idiot

Fool Fool Fool Fool Fool
Fool Fool Fool Fool Fool

You shall die!

Re:randis $1 mil is as fanciful as your parochial by canadian_right · 2004-03-17 13:02 · Score: 1

Randi's site

Slyia has agreed to be tested, but hasn't shown up yet. She apparently has put off the test for over a thousand days now.

The million is not in escrow at the moment. It is in a investments that are "negotiable" (can be easily chased in).

--
Anarchists never rule

Didn't mean to offend by Kommet · 2004-03-17 13:55 · Score: 1

I meant "Lord only knows" in the most direct sense possible. I assumed only the Almighty would be able to say what you looked like based on the available evidence. I had logged on to 127.0.0.1 and not seen any picture of you or description, though I did feel a weird sense of Zen balance.

The original (and I feel ACTUAL troll) called you both fat geeks, so I was correcting this saying one was a cute girl and the other an enigma.

Re:Er! Re:Review doesnt go far enough by buck_wild · 2004-03-17 13:59 · Score: 1

Yes, exactly correct.

They *should* have used a credit card to purchase a unit and review it on delivery. Barring actual delivery, they could have at least reported (first hand) on everything that went wrong during the ordering process.

--
If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

michael? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-17 14:31 · Score: 0

Is that you?

Re:Tom's is going to get sued by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-17 14:50 · Score: 0

I'm too lazy to quote your crap since you used the words "big fat liar" which obviously indicate the intelligence of your post.

Anyway, to several of your points:

1. Yes the FX-51 and AMD64 are virtually identical, but do you understand why AMD created performance numbers in the first place? Because there are quite of few ignorant consumers that don't know any different. If you were trying to sell a computer which honestly was the fastest, but the chip was called a FX-51, don't you think it would be slightly difficult to say that the FX-51 is faster than a P4 3.2? There needs to be some quantatative numbers beside the FX-51 - so what mike has done is perfectly acceptable in my book when advertising to an ignorant consumer - someone who isn't skilled to build his own rig for 1/2 the cost

2. Yes, that's what he means by booting a computer. Check that other website if you have doubts.

3. .11dba. Okay, for those non-imaginative people out there lets break this down. Assuming he's shooting for a quiet system, what fans should be necessary? Well, (1) CPU fan; and (2) PS fan. Okay, let's eliminate those fans. Eliminate the CPU fan with water cooling; I'm not talking about some liquit nitrogen crap or a refrigeration unit, but a well constructed liquid cooling system with good placement can be achieved on a FX-51 and will run at 0db - (use the heat itself as the pump). Alright, how about the PS fan? Well I haven't checked out the "silent" PS that are available. I don't know if they are indeed completely silent (under .11dba) but they might be. If not, some slight modifications can also liquid cool the powersupply. If you don't believe that's possible, then you need to go buy a larger imagination. If you don't believe that's feasible, then how about a well vented PS without a fan. It's indeed possible if you don't run something on the order of 600w.

4. Yes, yes, a VERY extreme computer does score 10k, but again, that's at 1024x768 or whatnot. The bench typically isn't run, and scores usually aren't compared at 640x480, but hell if you want to sell computers, it's a smart rez to run it at if you want to get the highest scores. And again keep in mind who we're selling the computers to... "ignorant consumers"

This speaks to my inner typography nerd by Tsuzuki · 2004-03-17 14:54 · Score: 1

http://www.tomshardware.com/column/20040317/too_go od_to_be_true-03.html

Did anyone else notice that the numbers on the two sets of stats were of a slightly different quality to the rest of the text on the page? Stuff like the benchmark scores, fps and "absolute silent" are just that little bit less aliased. Their baseline is also slightly higher than the rest of the text they're sitting with.

What it looks like to me is that this guy did the "site piracy" thing to a legit computer shop's site, replaced everything with outrageous numbers and sat back, waiting for the money to flow in. It'd also explain the presence of official logos all over the site when there's no reason for them to be there.

the threshold by black_widow · 2004-03-17 15:17 · Score: 1

in a dead room, with absolutely no noise to temporarily raise your threshold, you would hear the rain of air molecules against your eardrum... this is zero deciBels

Re:the threshold by bryan1945 · 2004-03-18 00:59 · Score: 1

Do you know what the name of this is? I mean that the sound of air molecules is called "(some guy's name) threshold". Like the "Barry Threshold".

--
Vote monkeys into Congress. They are cheaper and more trustworthy.
Re:the threshold by black_widow · 2004-03-18 15:08 · Score: 1

Are you sure you aren't thinking of the Nyquist frequency?

It has to do with the threshold of digital sampling rates.

Re:Tom's is going to get sued by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-17 15:49 · Score: 0

apparently they are even a bigger fraud than michael
http://www.techbits.ca/modules.php?name=C ontent&pa =showpage&pid=20

http://tonytalkstech.com/2003/10/liebermann_inc_ ho ax_or_not.php

http://www.pcsympathy.com/article290.html

for example by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-17 16:19 · Score: 0

http://extremepower.web1000.com

Eiffel Tower by Vryl · 2004-03-17 19:16 · Score: 1

story is told in 'The 48 Laws of Power'.

Apparently the guy posed as a top beaurocrat in charge of dismantling the tower because it was too expensive in upkeep (or something).

He even took a bribe from the successful bidder! Now, that is a class act.

I had a Katana laptop by a!b!c! · 2004-03-17 21:27 · Score: 1

Perhaps you just got lucky with the name, but they really did exist. Just do a google search for them.
Everynow and then they show up on ebay too.

There were military labtops. I don't remember if there were twice as fast as anything on the market, but they had quite strong cases, but not too heavy. I still use it when travelling because I know it'll never break down, and the display is quite crisp.

You're just Jealous! by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-17 21:31 · Score: 0

I purchased my computer from Michael's Computers and I can attest that my MX7 is faster than anyone elses I have seen!

Boot up times are less than 348 seconds every time! Not to mention my whopping fast extra-large hard drive! Chicks gaggle at it all day long!

Is it possible I could use any more xclamation points!

Toms Hardware is a bunch of Jealous Liars!

Leave us Michael's Computers fans Alone!

You wish you could build a system this fast!

--- yah, I'm a loser.

Re:lovely swampland in Florida by Uninvited+Guest · 2004-03-18 01:43 · Score: 1

Does that swampland come with free shipping, or is that extra?

--
Sometimes I worry that I'll develop Alzheimer's disease, but no one will notice.

Michael owes a big, fat check to /. and THG by Uninvited+Guest · 2004-03-18 02:08 · Score: 1

"I don't care what they write about me as long as they spell my name right." --P. T. Barnum

How many of you would have heard of Michael's Computers without SlashDot and Tom's Hardware Guide? Sure, it's mostly negative coverage, but even bad publicity is better than no publicity. I daresay Michael will see an unexpected surge of buyers after this, and it's all thanks to Tom and the SlashDot community.

--
Sometimes I worry that I'll develop Alzheimer's disease, but no one will notice.

Re:Er! Re:Review doesnt go far enough by PetWolverine · 2004-03-18 18:59 · Score: 1

Once again, it's in the article: Michael's only accepts PayPal. The reviewer wasn't about to drop a couple thousand for a story, and from what he had been able to find out, wasn't likely to get a computer to test even if he did.

--
I found the meaning of life the other day, but I had write-only access.

Re:Er! Re:Review doesnt go far enough by buck_wild · 2004-03-19 11:07 · Score: 1

I read that too, but a poster above claimed to have paid with a credit card, and when delivery took much longer than promised, was able to cancel and get his money back.

I just thought more could have been done to really solidify the article and get into the nitty-gritty (odd...I don't believe I've ever typed that before, but it seemed to fit) of the experience.

--
If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

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