Slashdot Mirror
Ask Slashdot: How To Shop For a Laptop?
jakooistra writes "My sister recently asked me for a laptop recommendation. I said, 'Sure, what are techie brothers for,' and diligently started my search for her perfect laptop. Two days later, I feel like I've aged two years. Every laptop vendor seems to want to sell a dozen different, poorly-differentiated models, with no real way of finding out what is customizable without following each model to its own customization page. And there are so many vendors! How am I, as a consumer, supposed to find what I need? Is there a website, hiding somewhere I just can't find, that tracks all the multivariate versions and upgrade choices in an easily searchable database?"
jakooistra adds a few criteria, in case you have specific laptop suggestions: "It needs a good CPU, but we almost don't care about the GPU (HD 3000 graphics are acceptable). A model that doesn't get very hot would be nice. We'd like an SSD and an internal optical drive. A 15"-17" screen at 1366x768 or higher would be ideal. Budget is around $1,500, but could go up to $2,000 if it's really worth it."
get a mac
Do not buy a consumer laptop, make sure you shop around in the Business/Small Business areas of leading manufacturers (HP, Lenovo, Dell).
Pick MacBook Pro or MacBook Air, then pick a size. Done.
Get a pink one. She'll be happy.
does the operating system matter? (or is it just assumed that you want windows)
Just get a Macbook.
Seriously. They make nice enough laptops and are within your price range while having crappy enough specs (compared to a non-Apple at the same price) to meet your requirements :)
Since you're buying a laptop, presumably you want to be able to carry it around. If you plan to do a lot of traveling on foot, you'll want a lighter laptop than someone who drives most of the time. Keep in mind that larger laptops tend offer more performance at a smaller price.
Once you've nailed down the physical dimensions you're looking for, you can try to maximize the price/performance ratio from there.
There's no -1 for "I don't get it."
If you plan on running that isn't OEM Windows or want it to last for more than a year, DO NOT GET AN ACER. I thought that, maybe, they used extremely shoddy parts and had bad ACPI support for only the cheap models. I was wrong. I've had this laptop for about a month and the fan is already dying on me... Next month it'll be the usb ports, like my sister's and cousin's laptops..
Step 1 is to figure out what your absolute demands are so as to narrow your choice already. This includes budgeting, what you'll be using the thing for, etc. Sounds like you've already done this.
Step 2: Walk into a store.
No, seriously. It's all good and well to spec out a machine on the web and then say "this one's perfect!". But then you get it and... the casing feels weird, the way the keyboard types makes you cringe, the glossy screen you thought would be nice and sharp is really just reflecting the bright windows behind you when you sit at your desk, the backslash is situated next to the shift key, the audio quality can be called poor at best and while you intend to use headphones most of the time it's really just not acceptable, and whenever you glance at something else, you can't help but notice some weird fuzzy...moving..jittery.. things on the screen that you can't quite see when you look straight at it but you swear they're there (and they are - hello, temporal dithering - load up the LCD test webpage if possible if you care about the screen).
So go to a store and test the machines in person. THEN go back to the internet to find the best deal / customization options if you really want.. or, if you've pretty much found the one you want, get it at the store (yeah, you could save some bucks - but the store did provide you the service of allowing a hands-on.. might as well reward them, within reason).
Your budget is pretty high for a computer that doesn't need to have much graphical prowess, by the way.
My recommendation is not to buy a laptop. They're designed to break easily and repairing one will cost you a small fortune. At which point you may as well buy a new one, and the cycle repeats. Quality just isn't a factor.
Buy the cheapest because stores are selling them off because they won't run that bloated expensive legacy operating system. Then wipe out the said operating system as you load Linux.
work in progress
Subject says it all! It's a great system, extremely fast for regular day-to-day things, especially web surfing. Plenty of fast for just about everything else.
In my experience, the number of viable options is actually quite small once you've decided on the requirements. So my recommendation is not to shop for "the best I can get for X money", but to shop for "the least expensive laptop which satisfies my requirements".
So what does she need? Big display? Light weight? Long battery lifetime? Fast graphics? Optical drive? Silent? Robust? Numpad? ... If she doesn't know the answers, see what she's going to use it for and derive the technical requirements from that.
Dell XPS has the features your looking for, just got an I7, 256GB SSD, and 17" screen for around $1300 or so. And no the manufactures websites are tangled messes of models with no easy way to compare features between different classes of laptops, it's even better when price differ wildly between models with almost the exact same features.
Apple does make it easier by giving you far fewer choices in a case like this (unless they don't have what you want).
MacBook Air.
Get her a Lenovo business laptop. Yes, they are a little bit pricey but you get what you pay for.
Go to the nearest Apple store, ask for latest Macbook Pro, carry on getting work done, the end.
Lenvo B575 with a AMD APU. Does everything I want, cheap enough to throw it out the window if it doesn't.
With a budget as handsome as $1500-$2000, I don't see why you can't stick to Apple laptops, even if you want to run Windows. On the other hand, if your budget were lower - say, under $750 - you'd have to inconvenience yourself with all sorts of research about brands, models, configuration options, warranties, consumer reports, deal websites and coupons, friends with EPP rebates etc. It doesn't sound like the OP is on a tight budget though.
-- obligatory (but true) caveat: my comments my own, and don't reflect my employer or colleagues' positions.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
1) If Apple is OK - do consider them. Quality wise not many other notebooks will come close. 2) I suggest looking at screen first and foremost. Vast majority of notebooks have rather bad 768p TN panels. If you will limit your choice to at least 1600x900 or above (assuming 15") choice will become easier since you will look only at few models. And it is still doable within your price range if you stay away from Sony.
I'm trying to figure out how he's the "techie" of the family if he doesn't know how to purchase a laptop.... I'm also curious why any laptop for normal use would cost over $1,500. That seems a bit excessive.
In any case, I highly recommend New Egg (newegg.com). It allows for easy searching based on a variety of preferences and it makes comparison shopping easy and it gives detailed specs. When in doubt, get a cheap one. You could buy three or four reasonable laptops for the budget alloted to this venture.
both have nice websites with the obvious base choices for you being:
https://zareason.com/shop/Strata-6770.html
Stock at $849
with a 160GB SSD comes to $1,148
and for me the winner would be:
https://www.system76.com/laptops/model/gazp7
3rd Generation Intel Core i7-3610QM Processor
Stock at $899
With 180 GB SSD comes $1178
Btw, for what you are asking for, your budget seems high actually :).
Have you searched for advice on YouTube... These guys (not from the brands) do a good job too, e.g. this one!
Select between Lenovo(Thinkpad) and Apple refurbished, then drill down to whatever models fit the criteria. Then do a favor for them and get them to have the longest warranty obtainable. For Lenovo, this would be 5-year(?, maximum may be 4) onsite service. For Apple, whatever Applecare does is going to have to do.
Either company has some thin and stylish laptops in that price range. Lenovo just happens to make them more maintenance friendly.
Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
http://www.prisjakt.nu/kategori.php?k=353
If you know swedish or at least are capable of guessing what stuff like "grafik-RAM, 2 GB" means.
New tablet/laptop hybrids will be out with screen resolutions above 1366 x 768 with great DPI. Perhaps Retina resolution grade?
Basically the screen part pops out for a 17 in tablet and you can plug it back in. Dell and HP will sell them with Windows 7 as well as Windows 8, assuming it is a repeat of Vista. My father got his PC when Vista came out and Dell had a version with XP still and he jumped on it. Or just wipe them with Windows 7 as SP 1 supports Secure Boot and EFI as well.
With that out of the way the very first thing I do is type "The lazy brown fox jumped over the fence" to test the keyboard and my accuracy. I do typing a lot when I was in school and I assume most people primarily use their computers for that. The keyboard is very important. Then buy them online after trying the models at hte local BestBuy or Fries.
http://saveie6.com/
Honestly, for $1500 the Macbook Pro or MBA will suit you very well, even if you don't intend to run OS X. The machines are well built and come with a decent warranty and will last for a long time. They also have pretty high resale value.
If you want to run Windows or Linux then dual booting is a snap (you can blow away the OS X partition completely if you like).
If you do go this route though, I advise that you wait until after Apple's WWDC keynote on June 11th - the strong likelihood is that the 2012 versions of the Macbook Pro and Macbook Air will be announced, so even if you want a current 2011 one, if you wait you can either get a new one for the same price, or a 2011 for a discount.
If you want to get a quick lay of the land, visit a Microsoft Store if you are able to locate one nearby. Despite the popular antipathy on /. towards M$, the stores stock a very good representative sample of consumer laptops that are functional, powerful, aesthetically slick (what little of that exists in the Windows world), and a good value for money.
There are popular consumer electronics stores like Fry's, Best Buy etc., but last I was inside one of those, I didn't get a sense that their selections did anything to reduce the numerical size of almost indistinguishable and hard-to-compare choices.
-- obligatory (but true) caveat: my comments my own, and don't reflect my employer or colleagues' positions.
Really, the biggest difference between laptops is the brand. Typically, more expensive laptops are better built laptops.
Dells tend to break after a year. HP's, 6 months if you do anything other than leave them in one spot on your desk, a year otherwise.
Lenovo's are basically rebranded IBMs, and are typically decently constructed. I've had good luck with Fujitsu as well, but only for their tablet notebooks (higher end).
Mac's are higher priced, and higher end, but are also built well.
Once you've figured out what brand you are buying, then the rest should be easier.
You can go with a desktop type processor (AMD Phenom/Intel I5) or a more mobile oriented processor (AMD Turion/Intel Atom), with the tradeoff being that typically higher power CPUs make your battery life short. On the higher power processor side, you can usually shop around for a discrete graphics card model, which would allow you some limited videogame playing.
From there, the options are usually HDD speeds and sizes (7200 RPM being fast, but power hungry, 5400 RPM being slow, but good battery life, and SSD being fast, good battery life, but small in space), screen size ( > size == > bulk/weight), and RAM/memory (less practicality for more RAM, and laptop RAM is usually much higher priced per GB).
So it depends on what you want to do.
If you intend to use it mostly on travel, pick one with a mobile style processor, a moderately sized SSD (maybe 32GB-64GB, with Linux, 128GB+ with Windows 7), and a smaller screen size/lighter weight.
If you intend to use it mostly as a desktop replacement, pick one with a good processor (Phenom/I5/I7), a nice sized 7200 RPM HDD (300+GB), a discrete graphics card, and a large screen.
And of course, one that fits your budget (which you should probably increase).
I hope that helps a little bit in explaining the options.
while(1) attack(People.Sandy);
I know a lot of people are going to jump down my throat for saying this, but I'd suggest considering a Macbook Pro. It seems to fit in your criteria, and they're very well built. They run Windows and Linux pretty much as well as other laptops, but then you also have the option of OSX.
Failing that, my suggestion is to really narrow your criteria based on your physical needs. Decide what you want out of a keyboard/mouse (e.g. do you care if it has a button pointer in addition to the trackpad), screen size and resolution, the total weight of the laptop, disk drives, expansion ports, etc. Don't worry so much about the computer being "powerful enough", because if you don't know which laptops are powerful enough, then any decent laptop today will be powerful enough. Focus instead on whether the physical aspects of the laptop will make it easy to work, like is it easy to type on the keyboard and is the screen comfortable to look at.
Aside from that, I'd stick with major brands, probably HP or Dell or Lenovo, and I'd stick to their professional level laptops (e.g. Dell Latitude, not Inspiron). The professional stuff is usually better quality, even if the specs look the same. Get a 3 year warranty. If you get down to the point of saying, "I want a 15" Latitude with an SSD and optical drive," then you'll only have a couple models on their site to compare.
I know, lots of people on this site are probably going to say, "Apple is stupid," or "HP or Dell will rip you off, but I bought a laptop from CyberAwesomeDeluxe that was $300 and had 24GB or RAM!" Ok, fine. Take that into consideration, but you'll usually get better quality and support if you buy a major brand.
There was no reason he shouldn't consider them, especially with his price range. The fact she doesn't even want to shop for the laptop means she less interested in the purchase than he is. The MacBook is good at most of what 80% of the population wants to do - browse the web, check email, and manage their music.
We're at the point where any laptop on the market will do 99% of what she's likely to need. Unless she has some REALLY specialized needs, anything on the shelf will run the software she wants just fine.
Take her to a store a good selection and let her choose from what's available. If it feels shoddy, skip it. Otherwise any name brand laptop will likely keep her happy.
Probably the only thing I would add is to look at maxing out the RAM - never a bad thing. And, as suggested, lighter is better. For that matter, smaller screen size = less wight and more portability.
Three Squirrels
You wouldn't take two days if she is going to run OSX. I am running Linux by the way, but am assuming that she intends to run Windows.
1) Go to a website like Tigerdirect or Newegg.
2) Start with all laptops and filter on the left by screen size (17" for my purposes).
3) Using benchmarks and prices, pick a CPU (At the moment, Intel is on top of this list: http://www.cpubenchmark.net/high_end_cpus.html )
4) Do the same with video cards. Note that some Nvidia GPU's have an overheating problem and Intel graphics downright stink. (http://www.videocardbenchmark.net/high_end_gpus.html)
5) Look up problems and issues with each remaining model on Google.
6) Consider other specs with your sister.
7) After going through all of the filters, sort by price. Use http://www.pricewatch.com/ for comparison if you narrow it down to a few.
8) Let your sister choose from the remaining list.
First you must decide how much money are you willing to spend. If you can't afford more than 1000$ forget about MACs.
Second which tasks will your sister performing? For casual web serfing, office document processing and music/DVD playback you don't really need a powerful system. If she is going to use it in a more professional way you should have a better CPU and more RAM. If she is going to play games then you will also have to consider a good graphic chip.
Third: Portability. Your sister is a woman and therefore she should avoid a 17" laptop because they it forbiddingly heavy for her to carry. If she plans to use the laptop as a desktop replacement and she needs more desktop space, then she should also buy an external monitor.
Personally I am using the following:
Company 14" laptop i5/4G Ram + office 19" monitor for work. I am also frequently required to work remotely.
Personal 17" laptop, i7/8G Ram for Web surfing, Skype, Virtualization and Gaming
Personal Tablet as ultraportable for vacation, web surfing, Ebook reader etc
At least for me, the ideal setup is a badass desktop for srs bsns + a cheapo netbook or tablet for when you need the mobility. It will probably cost less than a good laptop.
Circumcision is child abuse.
If you want reliability, I would recommend a Panasonic Toughbook. I first hand know they have very few electronic failures (2 out of about 500) and can take lots of physical abuse too. The cheap consumer laptops often die within 3 years because they try to save $2 by not sourcing decent capacitors on the motherboards. Even if you replace the motherboard your self it is still $250 or more from the manufacturer. Those models often all have motherboard issues on Ebay too. Then it is at lest $100 in labor to hire someone smart and patient enough to do a good job. At lest I think you should charge $100 to $150 if one is good at laptop motherboard replacement. I repaired a DC plug once, but never a motherboard because the estimate is always too much. The customer will just buy another disposable laptop.
> How am I, as a consumer, supposed to find what I need
You figure out that first (and readjust as your learn more and more about the options), then look only for those types of laptops. Why is your sister getting a laptop. What will she be using it for? You determine those requirements before you even think about system specs.
As for your posted requirements:
Good CPU - meaningless by itself. Is the fastest CPU the best or slower with multiple cores better? How about power usage? How and where the laptop will be used helps determine this.
Doesn't get hot - So a quiet, lower powered CPU and graphics or one with a cooling system that sounds like an airplane?
SSD - any laptop could use an SSD, just swap out the HDD. HDD/SSD and memory prices are normally extremely overpriced from computer dealers. Buy the cheapest options then buy what you actually wanted from a standard tech store. Sell your original ones online or keep them as backups. This will save you $$$.
Internal optical drive - Fine requirement, but are you 100% sure that's what you want? Those laptops tend to be thicker and heavier. Would a small external USB powered optical drive work?
Screen - does outside viewing matter? Glossy or not? Non-glossy will help reduce your options. Does viewing angle matter (for most people I'd say no)?
Budget - includes warranty? Double check that any battery warranty doesn't actually cost more than a battery. Take into account that the battery will lower in cost over time.
If she's a college student, I'd recommend going with a Tablet PC (writing [not typing] notes on your laptop is way, way better than taking notes on paper). That requirement will drastically reduce your choices. I use a Lenovo x220 tablet. I liked the x61 tablet better (d-pad for scrolling in tablet view, not wide screen, indented USB ports so the micro mouse receiver didn't stick out), but the screen was damaged after 5-6 years of happy usage and I had to buy a new one.
A Mac is the easy choice, you can run whatever OS you like on it. They are the best built laptop out there, so will last longer and even a 3 or 4 year old one has a good resale value, so cheaper in the long run. To get an even better deal check the Apple refurb store.
Why do you need a DVD drive? They are just dead weight to carry around. With full screen apps in OS X Lion I now find the 11 inch screen more useful than my 27 inch iMac. If it's a machine to carry around a lot then consider size and weight over everything else.
Lastly wait a couple of weeks, lots of new models are due soon.
$1500-$2000 for a non gaming laptop is completely overpriced. For an average non techie user (Facebook, email and browsing) you shouldn't need to spend more than $600-$700.
I went to the Lenovo website once. What a disaster. First, there are seemingly thousands of models, with trivial or no apparent differences, but sometimes huge differences in price. Sometimes the specs are just broken, e.g. the laptop has X GB of memory, you click on a link for more info, and it has Y GB of memory. There are many different ways of searching for laptops, all built with wildly inconsistent UI technology, and many of them don't work. One was particularly bad: you answer about 30 questions, rating, prioritizing, estimating (performance for watching videos is 87% important to me), and then you get what is basically a random collection of a few hundred laptops to wade through.
For a company reputed to build good laptops, I was surprised by the website. It was, by far, the worse e-commerce website I have ever seen.
Other posters have it exactly right -- no matter what you think of the Mac vs. PC debate, there is no question that they have the online shopping experience absolutely right.
... and not the one that you would buy yourself.
What will she use it for? How long? What data will she have on it? What are her primary apps? Trackpad or Trackpoint or mouse? Very mobile or mostly used in one spot (argument for cheap desktop PC + more mobile laptop/netbook). Is there an urgent need? Is there a budget? How are her eyes? How's the lighting in her house (glare, matte screens, etc). How many USB devices does she want to plug in?
Holy crap, that's a horrible idea.
I almost bought an Asus G55. Fifteen inch screen, full 1920x1080 resolution, and just around $1500. Only reason I didn't end up buying it was because I was mislead by the pre-order page to believe that it had two hard drive bays as well as the optical drive bay. Apparently Asus removed that feature without notifying resellers, because I got an email weeks later telling me the machine I'd configured was impossible - I got upgraded to the larger G75 instead.
Now, that particular machine would be terrible for light office/home use. But I've used 1366x768 screens - they are *terrible*, and when you're spending a grand and a half on a laptop, they're completely underspec.
Try to get at least a 1600x900 screen. Seriously. That's just about the most important advice I can give you.
If you care for such things use Greenpeace's Guide to Greener Electronics to help you sort through the manufacturers. Even if you don't agree with their methods it is a good point of reference
You are approaching the problem the wrong way! Laptop are basic commodities!
Assuming you will not be around to help her all the time, who will fix it? Call the tech support number for the laptop you are considering and see how well they respond. Then find a laptop that sell in the price range you want. There is such a small difference in manufacturing at price levels that all you really are paying for is the tech support.
Notably you should try to find a way to actually touch and hold your choice. Particularly your relative may not realize what a 17" laptop would mean for portability.
After having a few laptops ranging from 12 to 17 inches over time, I've found 14" to be what I feel to be a good compromise. 1600x900 display at least. When reasonable, I use an external 22" monitor at 1920x1200, but I wouldn't want to drag aronud the requisite bulk and weight of a 17" laptop again...
XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
,,, so the most cost effective way to get a quality laptop is to buy a factory brand. Just search for Clevo and/or Compal which are the factories' house brands. RJ Tech is one reseller where you can get them.
I'm also looking for one. Does anyone have any suggestions for a 12/13" laptop that can withstand some knocks and falls? I haven't found one that isn't designed for taking on the Dakar trip and therefore cost $2000+.
Dilbert RSS feed
Get a 15" MacBook Pro:
2.2GHz Quad-core Intel Core i7
AMD Radeon HD 6750M graphics processor with 512MB of GDDR5 memory
128GB SSD
Slot-loading 8x DVD±R DL/DVD±RW/CD-RW
15" 1440x900 screen
$1999 (with the SSD). Really worth it.
(Alternatively, get a 13". 'Only' 1280x800, not quite as beefy video chip, but only $1399.)
I second the persons who said:
- Walk into a store and check it out.
- Max screen resolution of 768p is bad idea.
I bought my laptop online and typing on the keyboard and clicking the touchpad button is a LOUD nightmare. So get a feel for it before dishing out your hard earned cash.
My advice:
- Buy a brand with at least 2 years warranty. The DVD-BRAY-RW is bound to break after a year of heavy use, so the warranty will come in handy.
- Laptops are terrible at graphics and number crunching NO MATTER HOW MUCH MONEY YOU PUT IN IT.
- SSD drive will more than make up for the sluggishness (Windows) laptops develop over time. Use an external hard-drive for the rest (docs, movies, music..).
- Max out the RAM (8, 12, 16?) and get a decent Core i7.
- Lightweight, Glossy Widescreen (FHD (full HD), TruBrite, TFT LED Backlit).
- Latest version of Bluetooth, USB 3.0 (with ability to re-charge your mobile), Wireless N. - If you still want a good GPU for Hello Kitty Island Adventure... the rule of thumb with nVidia is "GT" stands for shit and "GTX" is what you want.
Do what I did - realise old laptop is no longer up to the job; notice Aldi has a laptop on special the next week at AU$600 with suitable specs (in particular, 8GB RAM); figure "I can return it for any reason within 60 days so might as well see if it's suitable"; grab the third of four available at the store; get it home; realise it has a matte screen; go "Woohoo!".
A couple of days later (following a fair bit of tweaking) I had a new work laptop that I'm very happy with.
...you should prioritize the following:
Screen resolution/quality: There are some amazingly poor screens out there there days. For 15" and above accept nothing below Full HD(1920x1080) also, go to a store and look at the display yourself!
Keyboard: As with screens, there are some amazingly poor keyboards out there. Cheap keyboards feel like a sponge in certain areas, and make horrible squeaky sounds when used. If she's going to type a lot on it she needs to try the keyboard first.
I recentrly got a new laptop, ended up with a 16" Full HD Sony. The main reason I selected that particular model was the keyboard.
Also, if she will be carrying it around, check the size/weight of the power supply. I have run into some serious surprises in that department...
Since the OP is supposedly looking for a machine for his sister, he should start there and ask what she wants it to do. In all likelihood, she will never want to customise it, so he should be looking at the simplest or most reliable way of fitting the tool to the job. Sure, there might be issues like bulk or styling to take into account, but again that needs her input. Enough with the patronising.
Before recommending a laptop, ask her how much she wants to spend. After you have that, it becomes a lot easier to discover what you can get. In laptops, I look for the longest battery life with a 15 inch screen. I picked up a decent Toshiba laptop for my wife for 300 dollars (after Thanksgiving). 15 Inch, LED back-lit screen, 4 gigs of memory, 250 gig HDD, and a duel core AMD chip. It was plenty of computer for her needs (web surfing and very basic productivity work).
If you can get an SSD in her price point, I would make that a priority due to the battery life and performance improvements you get.
no other choice. Save a ton of money and get great warranties
Don't buy a Dell, Dude; just don't.
I was never happy with the performance of any Dell laptop I had, either personally, or work provided.
I had a thinkpad with essentially identical hardware as my personal dell: same memory, GFX, CPU, screen rez, I think the HD on the Dell even speced faster. But the actual usage difference between the two was like night and day; so just don't buy a Dell.
If someone is passing you on the right, you are an asshole for driving in the wrong lane.
When it comes to PCs/laptops , Most non-tech people budget too high for their actual usage. Probably because they've just looked at the high-ticket items in the bricks'n'mortar shops. Although h264 decoding does require a bit of grunt or good gpu.
these days without being pretty specific about:
* the environment it is going to be used in (transported daily in a backpack versus once every 6 months in a carrying case)
* the degree of care liable to be given it by the owner (careful or drop it once a week)
* the hardware repair expectations of the owner
* the desired lifetime of use expected for the hardware
* the software liable to be run on it
makes little sense to me.
The answers lead to a set of expectations/needs and eventually to a proper price point to support those needs.
http://www.amazon.com/Dell-Inspiron-i14RN-1227BK-14-Inch-Diamond/dp/B006LX2IU0/?tag=amazons0d8-20
Wipe windows, put ubuntu, fedora, or linux mint on it . If she still needs windows put it in a virtualbox vm on it for her.
If you decide on Mac, it's probably worth waiting a few weeks - there will be a new MacBook Pro out soon. (The old model is already getting discounted; mid-June to early July expected ship date). It should be lighter and will have the new version of the OS (Mountain Lion) is expected to be released at the same time. OTOH the new model is rumored to not have an optical drive. (Which isn't really a practical drawback in my opinion. The extra battery space will be more useful. Get an external backup drive for extra storage instead.)
"Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery?" - Patrick Henry
Decide what's really important; do you really want a 1366x768 17" screen? Maybe you do, that'll make things easier. I've never found anyone who's unhappy with higher resolution screens unless they have poor vision.
Look at the Slickdeals, Fatwallet, Dealnews sites to see what goes on sale, and how often.
If she's going to use it as a road warrior, get a corporate model. They can come with 3 year warranties (including breakage coverage). If she's likely to keep it longer than that, plenty of parts will be available on eBay for cheap.
If she's going to put it on a desk and leave it there forever, get a cheap model that suits her needs. If she's going to want to upgrade in a year anyway, then get the cheapest one you can find; you can get 3 one-year laptops with that $1500 or one 3-5 year laptop.
Newegg with the advanced search with narrow your options pretty well
http://www.newegg.com/Store/SubCategory.aspx?SubCategory=32&name=Laptops-Notebooks
You can find the one I'm seriously looking at here
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834215081
Comparable to an iPad yet it runs Windows and is cheaper while including a Keyboard Dock. The really nice thing is the inclusion of a pair of USB ports unlike the iPad. On the CPU front, it's one of the new AMD APU models and it runs Win7. The only thing I'd suggest is doing a full wipe/clean install to get rid of the Bloatware that's preloaded by acer (backup the drivers first) and tweak things for best performance. One thing I'd also suggest is this stylus for Capacitive Screens
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834989024
and add a few 16GB Flash and SD Cards for extra storage as they're less then $12 ea = >$1.00 per GB. On the software front, toss in a copy of Office Home and Student and she'll have Word, Excel, Powerpoint and OneNote to make her teachers happy for reports. Sure the 32GB SSD isn't that big but offers enough space that with her docs and such kept on either a Flash or SD Card, she wont loose her class work if it's broken/lost.
Mod me up/Mod me down: I wont frown as I've no crown
Don't shop around, then decide which one is best for your non-defined requirements. That's maximising, and it's the path to teh sads.
1. Set requirements. I want a laptop that can run Chrome, Libre, watch 720p video, has wireless N, is small-ish, and can play Angry Birds. (1a - rule out things you don't need. I don't want an optical drive. I don't care about colours. I don't care about gestures. I don't want to play Diablo III.)
2. Set a price. Determine, right now, how much you'd be happy to spend. Not the most you'd spend. A price at which you'd say 'wow, I'm really glad I could meet those requirements at that price.'
3. Buy the first thing you see that meets 1 and 2 above. Ignore what you could have bought, would have bought, should have bought, what other people bought.
Now you're satisficing. You're making rational economic decisions based on sound, objective criteria.
These laptops put up with heavy use and the 1920x1080 FHD low gloss screen is easy on the eyes. Of the last five T series laptops none have given me issues before the 18 month mark+, and I have two that still run but are just out of date now and one I don't use because I made the mistake of not getting the FHD screen.
A lot of people seem to be recommending the Apple laptops but they are not as well engineered and I can't seem to keep one going for more than a year even under light, second laptop, use. Also, the cheap glossy screen is murder on the eyes.
+ One mystersiously died during a border crossing and Lenovo replaced it, another had a screen fading issue and it was time for an updated laptop. I get the 2 year warranty just in case something like that happens before I'm ready to replace.
This is so stupid, you have specialized laptops, sparcs, tron, milspec&rugged, etc. These are the ones you acquire when you have a purpose, then you have consumer trash of different degrees. HP Elitbook, Macbook Air/Pro and Thinkpad W/X/T leads the pack of gawdy shit that you might just as well dunk in the can. Below this point you enter dantes hell of consumer apathy where you're presented with an endless supply of useless trinkets. It doesn't matter which trinket your degenerated mind is bamboozled by at this moment.
Think really hard on that monitor size. A large display will add a lot to the price and make it heavy. If your sister really needs the larger display when it's sitting a desk at home the vast majority of the time, pick a laptop with a small display, add a docking station and buy an external monitor.
Surprised no one mentioned Asus. They are great at price performance ratio, and are made for last.
Looking strictly at specs can lead you astray in laptops, and unlike desktops, it is difficult to fix problems by replacing parts. Like others have mentioned you need to check the laptops out in person or, at the very least, read some reviews on the laptops you're interested in.
With your budget, you shouldn't try to investigate every possible option - the ratio of garbage to good is way too high. Start by going to some review sites and just picking the laptops with the best reviews and find the ones in your budget range with the specs you want. This should significantly narrow down the ones you need to research. Make sure you read the reviews though - you'll pick up on stuff that just looking at the typical specs won't tell you. Such as if the laptop has a crappy track pad (this is actually a fairly common problem). Is the battery run time short? You definitely can't trust the manufacturers on that spec. Does the keyboard feel good to type on? Does the monitor have good viewing angles? Does the monitor produce the proper colors? Does the laptop get hot? Is the SSD actually fast?
Macbook pros are one of the good options that would fit your constraints, although there are others( I hear that certain Lenovo and Sony models are quite good). Keep in mind that you can get refurbished macs that come with the same warranty as brand new macs at reduced prices from the apple website. You can also find new macs at reduced prices at various online sites. For example, Macmall.com is a reputable site that typically has good prices. You should also know that it is widely expected that Apple will be introducing at least one or more of the new macbook pros in June (expected at WWDC). They are rumored to have retina displays - even if you don't care about having the latest and greatest, if you can wait, you'll be able pick up the old models (the ones that are current at this moment) at reduced prices.
It would also be a good idea to remind your sister to be gentle with her laptop. It seems obvious, but I've seen people just drop their laptops onto desks or drop/toss the bag containing the laptop.
Best way to to go to newegg, start with a cpu, and intel core-iAnything, then 4gb ram, and whatever other minor stuff. Then asthetics/price.
Don't get an HP!
I had HPs and they are junk. Try calling them for support, the support people are idiots.
Buying on American Express doubles the warranty. I had computers fail, and Amex reimbursed me for the cost of the machines without much difficulty.
Fight Spammers!
Brand really doesn't matter much. I have bought Dells exclusively for the past 9 or 10 years, and have never been burned. If you don't want to pay the Mac Tax and would prefer a PC, here's what I've found.
First, stalk your technology. Find exactly what you want. Don't buy in stores for this reason. Want more RAM? Get it. Want a backlit keyboard? Get it. With very few exceptions (usually hard drives and accessories), everything is cheaper to add on at the beginning.
Second, and most importantly, GO TO THE SUPPORT FORUMS. Find a laptop series that's been out for 4 or 5 months, and go to the company's support forums to search for it. See what people are complaining about. This is where you find out what's going on under the hood. Weak/incomplete drivers, faulty hardware, random errors, people are going to bitch. One or two complaints aren't anything to worry about. More than that? May be time to reconsider.
My last laptop purchase was going to be an XPS, because it had everything I wanted on it at a price point I was comfortable with. Problem was? It was a POS. Bad drivers, power supply problems, lots of service calls, lots of angry returns. It ended up being a good decision not to buy it. I found a business class laptop that cost more, but it's been flawless. The forums had barely anything bad to say. Plus, I ended up finding a coupon for it that brought it back down to reasonable pricing.
And as a final note... I echo the people who say to buy a business laptop. You'll be much happier. Drivers are way better... the hardware as well. And before you buy, scan those skeezy coupon sites. Sometimes they have absolute steals. My last laptop was 34% off (services AND hardware) thanks to a quick google search before I hit "checkout".
Sounds like ThinkPenguin is what you are looking for. Even if you don't go GNU/Linux the machines are awesome, upgradeable, and good quality. The one you wuld probably want to look at is the Penguin International. It is a "business class" laptop with a 15.6" screen, Intel HD graphics, 1366x768 resolution, and lots of CPU/memory configuration options from low to high (Celeron Single Core to i7). I'd probably go with an i3, 3-4GB of ram, and a smaller SSD (120GB-200GB).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hk8hxjpnUiw
It's old, a little outdated (only a little!), but still hilarious.
So as of this moment the OP has 151 replies proving his point, which is that buying a laptop today is a disaster of competing options and confusing details.
Marketoids hate simple comparisons.
Why do you think they created all of those nearly identical products??
The answer is...to confuse you.
When you are confused, you are more likely to rely on emotion, rather than logic.
Buy the brand, buy the extras, etc...
I really, really hate shopping for laptops...
Most credit cards will double the manufactures warranty. That is a one year warranty becomes a two year warranty. They cover the second year. It is a free feature.
One with Snow Leopard, not Lion. Snow Leopard is one of the most solid operating systems I've ever seen. Lion, not so much.
Finding God in a Dog
Lenovo Thinkpad L720. Business model (non reflecting screen). Without SSD drive I payed about $500.- six months ago. HDD were generally quite expensive when I ordered mine, but even then you would have stayed far below your limits. Can't complain - I wanted a reliable machine with as litte non-essential extras as possible (no camera, no fingerprint reader etc.), as I use it mainly for music production and performance. Got exactly what I wanted. Runs Debian/stable AMD64 and Windows7 64bit, Debian installed without any problems, GLX, wireless, audio, BT, all there out of the box.
Oh, the beautiful gloss of greality!
The most important thing is to get a machine targeted at enterprise use, they are much more durable than consumer laptops. Don't worry too much about the CPU etc.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds -- Albert Einstein
I've been trying to find a laptop too. At the moment, I think I will settle on this one http://shop.asus.co.jp/item/K73SM/
The ASUS K73SDTY2670
Anyone know if the asus laptops are any good?
If 720p (1366x768) and a 15" screen is acceptable, $1500 is more than triple what you should be paying. Treat the machine as a commodity, expect it to get dropped/lost/etc. Set it up with automatic backups (e.g. Crashplan, Carbonite, Backblaze, etc.) and good encryption for when it's lost/stolen (if it's a single-user machine this may be easier since there are no cross-account encryption issues for backups) and save the money to get a better machine in a year or two. If you want CPU but don't care about graphics, get an Intel chip; if you're going to be playing games on an inexpensive laptop get an AMD A4 or A6 processor for the built-in graphics (comparable graphics on Intel requires an added graphics card).
As far as the sites go, I sent a nastygram over to Asus not too long ago noting that since clearly Marketing had completely subdued anyone with technical knowledge, I was sure that any laptop from them would continue to look mahvelous even after components started to fail. I also criticized the complete lack of any way to search by specifications other than manually opening each product's page.
fencepost
just a little off
HP Elitebook, Dell Latitude/Precision, IBM Thinkpad. Great warranties, durability, and build quality. Buy a Mac only if you want a Mac.
I need a laptop to watch movies, but I can not find a laptop with wide viewing angle, large screen and low price. Is it possible to buy such laptop for less than $500 (new/refurbished/used)?
Sadly, manufacturers may change chipsets even on identical model numbers. The wifi card, for example, may be different on the same model. The graphics card used to be changed sometimes. Even the detailed model number is often meaningless.
Lastly, don't buy Dell.
If you want databse-y functionality, try using http://www.newegg.com/ but also http://www.notebooksbilliger.de/advanced_search.php
If you are lucky enough to have one of thesevery cool stores near you they are a great place to shop and buy tech. The prices are good, and for a brick and mortar operation they are sometimes awesome -- and the staff is usually informed. They also sell online. But a lot of stuff is in-store only. I have to drive for an hour to get to mine, but it is worth it. You could take your sister with you.
I go into consumer coma in the store near me (Rockville MD). I imagine it is like being in an online operation's warehouse. I just bought components for an Ivy Bridge desktop build. They beat Newegg on the prices of the main components, MoBo and CPU, but Newegg was cheaper for the smaller boards. Cables etc were also reasonable at Microcenter (Unlike Best Buy where the prices of cables and cords are usurious). Laptop selection was also good, but I wasn't buying.
As for comparison tips. I look at likely products with lots of reviews to take advantage of the hive mind. Then the percentage of good to bad reviews for a given product. Then I read a few good and a few bad. Sometimes a bad review of an otherwise good product will expose a deal killer for me. This is not the end all be all of a buying decision, but not all reviews are astroturfed.
Last thing about a laptop buy. Teach your sis to take care of it. Don't run it on a pillow. Don't flop it on a table like a text book. Or slam it shut like a car door. Put it in its case to travel. And follow good practice with the battery (even Lions need some thought.) And wipe it down from time to time. Silicon has a soul and likes to be kept clean.
"No fear. No envy. No meanness." Liam Clancy
Here is a laptop that might be up your alley http://www.shopping.hp.com/webapp/shopping/load_configuration.do?destination=review&config_id=7207413#a AMD A8-3550MX processor, 1 GB Radeon HD 7690M discrete graphics, 16 GB of DDR3 RAM, 160 GB SSD, 1920x1080 Anti-glare LED screen, Grand Total 1579.99
You helped her buy it, you're expected to help her set it up, use it, hook it up to different things, get programs working, and all that.
Getting a family member to move from Windows to Mac pretty much solved that issue for me. The only thing I ever had to make a "service call" over was setting up a wireless printer.
Admittedly she wasn't tied to any Windows apps so switching her over was pretty straightforward. Her word processing and spreadsheet use was for personal work. The iLife apps read her old Word and Excel docs. Only took a minute to show her how to save as PDF for when she had to send someone a file.
That's a bad idea. Just buy a Thinkpad, way better build quality than that cheap aluminum crap.
Two things that have really irritated me when I bough this HP. There is no line in, something I definitely could with ham radio gear. Apparently HP (and possibly all current Win manufactures) have bowed the knee to RIAA pressure and left it out. Second, I can only get two USB cameras to work on this HP. Need to run four. If I want to record TV, I have to bring down one of the security cameras. Don't know what this is all about, but keep it in mind for what she wants.
Since she's not technically inclined any computer with the latest CPU and enough ram and a keyboard that isn't going to fall apart in 2 seconds is going to be fine for her. So any laptop in the mid price range should work. That's what I tell my family, I'll recommend brands, but usually it doesn't matter. As long as it runs iTunes (assumption) and can open gmail, most people are fine with whatever laptop.
My recent gig gave me one. The one button touchpad is a bit of a pain, but you can live with it and add an external mouse if you can't.
I run Ubuntu, Winbloze, and MaxOs on mine.
If you have two large to burn, you can't go wrong.
Of course, my bias stems from the fact that the i7 with 8GB of RAM under the hood of mine rocks. It's also my personal build machine, and I've never had a laptop fast enough to be a decent build machine.
But, you know, for $250 I picked up some Acer chepie laptops at Fry's (three to be exact), and for browsing the internet, they are fine.
Do I like the Mac, always having shunned them? I guess. Would I spend $2k of my own money on one? Probably not. But, there is nothing wrong with the machine that a Linux varient can't fix.
In Liberty, Rene
Apple puts together a very pretty package and basically dictates what you will run, how you will run it, what you can do with it, and where you can do it.
You can run anything you like on any Macbook. And as other responders have noted it DOES solve the "too many models" problem, there is a limited selection of base models. It's basically, do you want an air or not and how much memory (RAM and storage) with reasonable defaults so you cannot go wrong simply ordering default configurations.
You will still have software problems.
Here's the key thing. Yes, you will have software problems. But who will solve them? If you are helping a friend buy a PC it's YOU who are solving them, that's who.
If you help someone buy a Mac you can simply say "try the Apple store Genius Bar first". Chances are they can help, they generally are pretty competent and pretty technical.
You still have viruses.
Actually no. There's one virus, one, that was from a Java installation, and an OS update already closed the hole. And you would have had to go through a chain of trouble to activate it... not a virus at all in fact.
But even ignoring the technical definition the truth is that unlike a PC, generally you can let a non-technical user go for years with a Mac and be pretty sure they will not have a virus.
You still have software problems with upgrades.
Actually that is REALLY rare, and again - Apple Store, not you. I have not had upgrade problems in years with any Mac software updates.
People still need to search some forum from time-to-time to figure out how to fix some strange new issue.
Or have someone help them for free, at an Apple Store. Are you starting to get what makes a Mac such a great idea for non-technical users? How is a non-technical person supposed to search forums for "odd problems" anyway? They cannot.
Ever try and build something from Ports only to have it *not* friggin work when you upgrade?
Come on man, that's not something the original poster is going to find a problem. If you are compiling UNIX utilities yes you may have some hiccups, but even then you can usually just recompile!
Apple has gone to great lengths to make the use experienced top-notch, but it still has it's problems just like Windows
That is the biggest misconception. I still have to help people with modern (Windows 7) pc's from time to time. Macs do NOT have problems anywhere close to what non-technical windows users have every day.
To even think about buying a non-technical user a Windows box and all the inherent baggage that comes with it is simply cruel to my mind - and it's a cruelty that as I said will be punishing you as well as the recipient.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Get a Mac.
Unless there is really some substantiated reason (eg you want 8 USB ports SSD drives and SLI graphics) the vast majority of laptops are either cheaply made and suck, or equally as expensive as a MacBook Pro for a slightly cheaper build level.
Get the Air if you want something that's a "real computer" above a iPad, otherwise get the MacBook Pro with the dedicated GPU. You may opt to wait for a refresh first.
If your budget only allows for under 1000$, you're likely to get mediocre parts and cheap build quality, plus the sales douchbag will want to sell you a 3 year extended warranty. The Extended warranty -IS- worth it on most of these cheapies, but it brings the cost above that of the Mac.
The hidden advantage of Lenovo is that all their stuff looks 10 years old, so no one bothers stealing it.
"That's either incredibly asinine or the most brilliant troll I've ever read. Not sure which." -Anonymous Coward
The problem with the dongle is that you're then stuck at USB speeds, rather than gig speeds.
The ethernet adaptors on Apple thunderbolt displays are full gig speeds, since obviously Thunderbolt can handle the bandwidth...
If really needed, you could also go with a thunderbolt - express card adaptor and get a GigE Expresscard. But most non-technical users will be just fine with a 10/100 interface.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Thinkpads are more modular, it's cheaper/easier to replace screens, keyboards, optical drives or batteries. Macs have OS X.
If you get the Mac with Applecare all of the things you list are replaced for free if anything fails or is even somewhat wrong.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Younger, less tech savvy buyers are going to base more of their critique of a laptop on form factor since they won't be stressing the hardware. Let her look at the aesthetics of laptops, keyboard feel, color, screen size, and weight. You should then *secondarily* back up her decision if the hardware and vendor are suitable.
Really, hardware is so beyond what laymen users need nowadays that I wouldn't trust making a laptop decision based on a list of components.
I swear to God...I swear to God! That is NOT how you treat your human!
* Applecare means EVERYTHING is fixed for you, hassle free. If it can't be fixed on the spot you'll either get a brand new replacement or the computer will be out a week or so for repairs. They do not haggle with you or give you grief about HOW broken something is, they err on the side of YOU being happy.
* All of the trackpads on any model of Mac you choose are fantastic, and work extremely well. You really can easily work without a mouse.
* The unibody design is really solid, and helps prevent damage in backpacks.
* The magsafe connectors work really, really well to prevent a laptop from being yanked off a table or desk.
* Time Machine really works for normal people. Just hook it up to an airport (or get a time capsule) and she'll never have to think about backups, nor will you...
* Apple Store support. You can go in and ask the Genius Bar for help with anything, not just hardware issues. The only time anything is not free is when there is hardware that needs replacing out of warranty (and even then Apple is sometimes liberal).
I love my family so much I made sure as many of them as possible got Macs - so that when I was with them I could spend time with them, not their computers.
I know this all sounds horribly like an add but it's just real life experiences about the best aspects of my non-technical family members and myself owning Macs in comparison with help I used to have to give PC user family members often.
The only area where Macs still have significant complexity is around directly connecting and setting up printers. That part has always been annoying and not very pleasant. To alleviate that get a printer that you can connect to over a network, one that supports the iPad wireless connection standard is best. They are simply to set up and as painless to configure as a printer possibly can be on a Mac, and the printer not having to be connected to a computer is a huge drop in complexity of troubleshooting for multi-device households.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Use Sortable (www.sortable.com) - it gives you exactly what you're looking for.
The beauty of poor differentiation is that the choice is largely arbitrary, proportionally to the dearth of differentiation. Use what you know about how she uses her computer to come up with a list of specifications, like how fast it has to be, how important battery life is, whether she needs a BD drive or a mere, humble Multi-Super Ultra DVD combo-drive... how big a HDD she needs, whether she will want to use a particular type of card, (like, does she use Olympus XD in her camera?) etc.
Then after finding one that meets the specs, in a reputable brand with good support and customer service... (I like Toshiba's myself, my only complaint has ever been speakers are a bit anemic,) and go with that.
I don't know if this is still true, but when I bought my last computer, a little while back, Toshiba was the only one that supported SD-XC cards (that theoretically go up to 2TB in an SD sized card,) which is nice when I also have a Panasonic camera that takes SD-XC cards. (Love that camera, btw...)
But above all, you should try to find a local retailer that has one you're (she's) looking for, and try it out.
Unlike a desktop, a laptop/notebook/netbook may well be used in the wild, where there is no mouse or keyboard to plug in, so it's kinda important to make sure the keyboard feels good, is useable, and that the pointing device (whether pad, clit-mouse, trackball, etc.) is something she'll be comfortable using.
What difference does it make if the thing is super fast, has a capacious disc drive, has an optical drive that can read anything, is light, cute, durable, and has a battery that lasts for days, if she's going to be using it to take notes at meetings, and the keyboard is an unusable piece of shit?
Something to consider.
No one ever upgrades a laptop. Just buy what you need at the beginning (half the time the upgraded RAM is thrown in Free, if it's not, grind the salesman down to get it thrown in free).
Right now vendors are killing kittens to get a sale so get a good deal on price.
Also I'd strongly recommend getting an extended warranty. I've had a couple of laptops bug out soon after a year (and out of warranty), personally I think the 5 year warranty is worth getting (you can probably get it disconted too), as you'll probably get a new laptop in that time if the original one breaks down.
Surprised virtually no one mentioned HP Elitebook business line. I got a 15" model last fall for around $US850 — very nicely spec'ed and virtually no crapware. Good in-outs, too, including the too-rare USB 3.0
Really good service, too, as you would expect for a business-class machine. Customization is very pricey, but if one of the pre-configured builds works for you, these machines are a steal.
Art in STL
I was recently asked this by my friend who is not a power user.
1. Good CPU, i5 or higher!
2. Good Video card, NOT shared memory, if you go for low end on this it will hurt you for the life of the notebook
3. Lots of storage, don't cheap out on the hard disk, there cheap so no reason.
4. Go 17" so you get two hard drive bays and can dedicate one to a boot SSD
5. Good Memory! If the memory isn't high quality turn away and run!
6. Good Wifi chipset, don't screw around with anyone that basically isn't boardcom, you want open drivers
Basically follow my rules and you'll end up with a good notebook. You don't have to be a power user to actually make use of high quality / good parts. The worst thing most notebook buyers do is go out and buy what they can get by with right now. If your going with the cheap option you better be prepared to suffer for the few years a head.
My Sinclair 'putah! It still sails with me! Arrrgg!
Have you fscked your local propeller head today?
A sure sign of a crap laptop is the half sized left shift key. This is to make the keyboard for other languages a snap for the company but it is crap for the user. The next test is to shake it. Crap laptops sound like a baby rattle with all the keys and innards shaking about. Good laptops should make little or no noise. Next look for where the air intakes and exhausts are. How would they fare with the laptop sitting on a pillow? Craptops tend to have them in places that are suffocated by sitting on a pillow.
Don't stick with a brand in that most brands vary so much from model to model to make this near useless. That aside don't buy a brand you haven't herd of.
Boot time. What is the boot time from zero to hero. This shows if the laptop was designed this century. Sub 15 seconds is good. Over a minute is something from when Vanilla Ice was hanging upside down.
Lastly I like the youtube test. Does the machine run an HD video really well? That is a good overall test that any laptop should pass in that it should have enough power to do whatever most people want.
As for SSD, memory, CPU I say blah; most people need less than 30G of HD. 2-4G of memory and any half assed CPU. More important than the CPU would be the quality of the battery as to how many times it can be charged before it dies which is something that is beyond mere mortals to test.
Then you wipe all the bloatware off and wait for the person to break the screen.
There are some interesting ideas and recommendations on hardware, but what surprises me is that there is no mention whatsoever on what your sister wants or needs to run in terms of applications. Personally, I would make sure I understood what she wanted to run in terms of applications, and coupled with her own preferences and experiences with other hardware, then make a recommendation on which type of notebook to buy. It could very well be the case that the type of applications she needs to run are only available on one platform. Typical users spend time running applications, and in the end, pay little attention to the subtle variations in CPU speeds. In terms of the hardware itself, make sure that the display is suitable to her needs and expectations, and that she is comfortable in the feedback of the keyboard when running the applications she'll be spending most of her time using, and then that, along with budget, will help narrow down the choice in hardware.
The last three laptops I've bought have been without much research at all. Just paid my price range. I was happy each time.
I'm writing this from a Mac and just want to put in a negative word for them, because everybody else is recommending one. They're simply too expensive for what they are. Not to say they're terrible, in the end I can use it just as well as Windows, with the exception that Macs can't natively play games or run the translation software I use. In the end I'd say they're pretty much the same in practice, only not quite as good. Why pay hundreds of dollars extra for something, unless it's markedly better?
Hardware isn't quality, at least for me (and my friends with Macs) there's hardware problems with all of them, fixing is an ordeal.
I just can't imagine being flustered by options. "Oh my god one has an SSD, the other doesn't!" You're overthinking things.
Slashdot: providing anti-social weirdos a soapbox, since 1997.
I'll admit to being a PC fan, in fact I once bought a mac notebook, kept it month, sold it, and bought a 2 times faster PC for the used dollars. But I will admit the mac hardware was quite a bit better (just not as fast) than the PC market.
But the one thing that bugged me constantly, was although the track pad worked in windows, the driver was horrible. At the time (2-3 years ago) there was like a 2000 entry complaint thread on apple about it, including the fact it was a long term problem. Has it gotten any better?
slashdot troll = you make a compelling argument I do not like the implications of.
Keying by good vendors is indeed a worthwhile strategy - so you'll get plenty of recommendations for Macs and Thinkpads, which are solid picks in my book. A lot depends on just how & for what you want to use your laptop. Personally, I've become a huge fan of the semi-rugged versions of the Panasonic Toughbook, some of which are in your budget - best laptops I have ever owned. Even the "business" versions (as opposed to MILSPEC models) have all-titanium frame, shock-mounted hard-drive in a quick-release cage, waterproof keyboard, large batteries with high-powered AC adapter, a heavy-duty built-in briefcase-type handle (on many models) and all sorts of other nice features. I specifically recommend the Toughbook 52. They're heavy as bricks, so you won't look cool in a coffeeshop... but these survive getting flopped onto X-ray conveyor belts, jumped up & down on by toddlers, falling off the desk, spilling coffee on the keyboard, etc.... whereas I've killed a couple IBM Thinkpads through the same pattern of abuse. Awesome business laptops.
Other than "it shouldn't get hot", your criteria doesn't make any sense. What do you want to do? Play certain games, word process, read e-mail? The model we recommend depends on what you want to do with it. Specifying the CPU doesn't make any sense without knowing what you want to do with it. Who decides what computer to buy based on hardware specifications these days??
There. Done. It can run Linux and Windows as fast as you'd ever want.
http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?oc=fncwb12&c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19&model_id=inspiron-15-intel-n5040
I've bought 5 for friends and family. No lemons so far, and the screens and keyboards are excellent.
Swap in whatever SSD you want for $100. Put the 500GB in a $20 USB external SATA enclosure, if you really need 500GB of storage in addition to whatever size the SSD is.
Just go to http://www.apple.com/macbookpro/specs-compare.html to compare and then select one.
Based on the original post, only the 15" MacBook Pro upgraded to a 128GB SSD meets all the requirements. But 128 is cramped, so it's probably better to go with the regular drive. If 15" isn't required, and an internal optical drive isn't required, then go with an Air (13" with everything). The base 15" MBP with 500GB drive comes in at $1,799, and could be picked up at the store tomorrow (or wait until after WWDC, although you are within the 2 week return period).
Don't even consider anything other than a Mac for your sister. Just follow the link.
Get her a pink laptop, she will love you forever.
I also can't stress that that if consumer laptops are the only option, DO NOT go to stores like Best Buy or Staples or Walmart to purchase them.
Go online and deal DIRECTLY with the manufacturer. ALWAYS. Here's a classic example:
There was a huge faulty nvidia GPU lawsuit a few years back that affected a slew of laptops causing them to overheat, and I still see these machines fairly often. All the customers who DIDNT buy them from the retailers got a class action settlement, but the ones who bought their junk from Best Buy or what have you were SOL.
Computers sold in a retail setting may be Dells or Acers or HP's, but they have their own unique model numbers TO THAT RETAILER with hardware parts that are difficult to find or incredibly expensive due to short supply. They purposefully do not create a huge inventory of replacement parts for these retail laptops. When you bring them into the Geek Squad or whatever, they don't send them to the manufacturer, they send it to one of the retailer's regional service centers where, if you're lucky, you'll get your component replaced if they have it in stock. Otherwise, you're up fudge creek, and they'll try to sell you a new laptop and/or credit you for the throwaway piece of junk your already purchased.
The HP DV6T seems to fit your criteria and is about $1100 and has an option for a 160GB SSD drive. Most reviews seem to rate it high. They also seem to be rated well on Amazon.
I have a HP DM4T that I haven't had any problems with...
David
I take it your sister is not a designer or media publisher of any sort because then she would be foolish to even ask about PC options. If you sister wants her laptop to seamlessly transition with any of the programs she uses at work and if she wants her children to grow up with a real understanding of computing environment in the corporate world, get a Windows laptop. Seriously consider the fact that Macs are under 10% of the market share in the US. Don't fall for the dual boot nonsense from Apple fanboys (and no doubt stockholders). Why would you get a Mac just run Windows software? It's a hassle when all you need is a PC. I spent $500 on my Acer 17" with mesh finish. It's as quiet as my girlfriend's Macbook Pro, is nearly a pound lighter the Macbook of similar size, and people always give it a second look when I pull it out at airports. You can customize on their site with girly colors, a 256 GB SSD, awesome CPU, and still be well under your $1500 budget. If you choose to go big with a 512 SSD, then you'll likely brush up against the $2000 budget. You will not be afford a SSD with your budget on a Mac. You can always spend a hundred dollars on a secondary insurance site if you're worried about durability.
Stay skeptical, my friends.
I haven't actually used a System76 laptop, but they look really good: https://www.system76.com/laptops/
:)
Their 15.6" Pangolin comes with all your criteria plus more (and even more if you want) except for maybe the heat issue, which I'm unsure about. It's around $1000.
I think it's the way to go. If I had $1,500 to spend, I would probably go straight for their computers.
This is what you would get for (15.6" Pangolin) $974:
Ubuntu 12.04 LTS 64 bit
5 Free GB of Ubuntu One Online Storage and Sync
15.6" 1080p Full High Definition LED Backlit Display with Glossy Surface ( 1920 x 1080 )
Intel HD Graphics 4000
3rd Generation Intel Core i7-3610QM Processor ( 2.30GHz 6MB L3 Cache - 4 Cores plus Hyperthreading )
4 GB DDR3 SDRAM at 1600MHz - 1 X 4 GB
500 GB 7200rpm SATA Hybrid Hard Drive with 4 GB SSD +$75.00
8X DVD±R/RW/4X +DL Super-Multi Drive
Intel Centrino 1030 - 802.11 b/g/n Wireless LAN + Bluetooth Combo Module
No Bag
1 Yr. Ltd. Warranty and 1 Yr. Technical Support
I'm sure that'll suite your needs.
How is one supposed to shop for a graphics card in a laptop? From my experience 2 years ago, it seems that if you don't make your own desktop, pick out a graphics card from a spreadsheet, and order it from newegg, it could be a real lemon. The other suggestion I've heard is price: spend enough and you'll get a decent laptop. Is one supposed to look at a benchmark list to see what graphics cards are decent?
Step 1: The biggest problem with laptops are generally reliability. Figure out the reliable brands. Apple, Dell, Toshiba, and oddly Asus generally do well there, and Sony & HP are usually close to last. Start at those manufacturer sites.
Step 2: The major differentiation is in CPU type & Speed. Is it a quad-core i7? an i3? If you're doing video editing or realtime code debugging, you need a top level i7. For gaming, an i5 is fine, and for everyone else an i3 is AOK. Note: Everyone offers laptops in whatever screen size you want. So pick your screen size and ignore the rest. Also, ignore anything over 8 lbs. The weight is never worth it.
Step 3: GPU. If you need a gaming processor, configure the biggest the manufacturer offers. This can never be upgraded, there are no real options, and you can't get it later. So get it. If you don't need gaming, then Great! Nothing else uses the bloody thing, so don't bother.
Step 4: Battery length. It's usually worth splurging on the biggest battery you can find, so configure that into the build. Everyone has a "long" one that lasts about the same length. Look for manufacturers who have battery settings that keep the charge withing 20% min and 80% max... This will greatly extend the lifespan of that extra 100 bucks.
Step 5: Now figure out which setup is the closest to what you want, and go for it! Why haven't I mentioned RAM, Hard drive, software, or other optional extras? Because buying this from the manufacturer is flushing money down the toilet. Buy these after-market.
The ______ Agenda
He wants a comparison between ALL laptop/desktop computers, not a product recommendation.
He's not as retarded as all you people who answered a question that wasn't asked. Even if he considers your recommendations, he still doesn't know how to compare it to other computers even if it's "good for him". If you want to spend a crap-ton of money for your status symbols, then knock yourselves out; just make sure you tell him that that's the reason you bought it because you were to damned stupid to figure things out yourselves.
I had a job in 2009 where my boss promised me a $1000 bonus if I worked longer hours through Christmas holiday time in order to complete a Flash animation for his company's homepage. I decided to take that and buy a laptop. My choice may be considered a silly gamble but Instead of buying new I decided to max out that money and scour Craigslist for the "dream deal". Of all the models in the world I was able to find a fully upgraded Music XPC M-7. This computer is a specially tuned music production desktop replacement based on the Clevo D900C. Brand new and with the grahpics card upgrade (Nvidia 8700m GT) it's sticker price was about $5000. I've since developed countless websites, taken it overseas, played through all the Call of Duty's, typed millions of words, etc. etc. and am typing this comment on the thing (no idea why I'm wasting time here, just procrastinating). I can't say enough about this computer. It's so frigging great. It's about 5 years old and still scores a 6.4 in the Windows 7 rating thingy. I know the price is way more than a MBP but man, you're never going to see anyone budge on the MBP price even on Craigslist. People are still asking 90%+ of new. It's ridiculous. My advice is to get on Craigslist every day until you hit a deal in which the seller really doesn't care to get a fair price and the machine they're selling is lesser known and kick ass. It'll take a while, but it's worth it.
http://www.accountkiller.com/removal-requested
although a Mac is a safe bet for the almost 15% extra profit margin you will be giving to Apple, I do not recommend you to give something you can support blindfolded.
remember that she is asking your help because your the expert, so will be doing free tech support over there phone ?
Looking at the setup side of things here. Compare the first boot-up of Windows 7 on say an HP laptop and a first Mac OS boot-up on a Mac book.
My first reaction for the PC? Holy mother of God! That HP laptop is filled to the brim with utter crap that slows down the laptop by at least a third! The out of the box experience is just about long enough to not get me mad. Just. But take a look at the preinstalled vendor software... In some cases, it's immense. Not to mention for every component they really would like you to register for support and they'll be happy to remember you every friggin' day or week and in some cases every hour!
Start up a Mac book and voila, after literally one minute you're completely good to go.
And those stickers... Come on, I'm buying a laptop, not a sponsored formula one car!
After being constant technical support for my wifes laptop (Dell) I found myself in the same situation. We went to the Apple store and came home with 13" Macbook Pro. She does basic word processing, excel, the typical net stuff..web, email etc. and has to connect to her companies vpn. She's been a windows user all her life. I no longer have to do tech support, she's self sufficient and does things she never would have dreamed of doing on Windows. Plus there have been zero hardware, virus or malware problems in almost 2 years. She's had no need for virtualized Windows. If you do need to use windows then parallels or bootcamp (parallels being the best solution for the typical user IMHO), problem solved.
Yes Apple's laptops are pricey, but you can still resell it 2 or 3 years later to finance the next one.
Try that with a vanilla brand laptop, even HP or Lenovo.
Warning it's based on avaiability in the french market, but since this is quite similar today it should still be helpful.
The site is called www.rue-montgallet.com after the name of a popular street with lots of geek friendly shops.
You try http://www.rue-montgallet.com/prix/comparer,portables,700,1,1,1,782=lt1.5,802=10173,1501=23351,min=700,max=1400
I preselected : less than 1.5kg (trust me your sister will be happier with something not too heavy), 1366x768 as requested (i would personally choose a screen size and then try to maximise the definition, I personally have this resolution on my laptop and wish it would be somewhat "taller", i also selected SSD and put the price in the range 700 to 1400€ so that is 1000 to 2000$ (since it includes IVA (sales tax) your price will probably be cheaper so you can splurge on options).
It yields 8 machines 4 Asus 2 HP and 2 Toshiba, I own a Toshiba and am reasonably happy with it, but I would probably choose the Asus which is quite cool looking and since Asus is really it's own ODM it can afford to provide more feature for the price. :-))
I would avoid the i7 unless she really needs it (but then she would probably also need a faster GPU) since it really sucks the battery dry in no time
nb: If you would put in a slighty higher resolution it would have yielded the Asus zenbook UX31 series, which really looks cool
http://usa.asus.com/Notebooks/Superior_Mobility/ASUS_ZENBOOK_UX31E/#specifications
And still fairly cheap. see http://ixsoft.de/cgi-bin/web_store.cgi?ref=Products/de/ASRY009VHW.html (for pre installed Linux version, but in German, so just teasing
Good luck
The big question is 'what is the computer being used for?' If its nothing beyond some web surfing, word processing and occasional video-on-demand (Netflix, Hulu, etc), then just buy a used computer. You can get a 2 or 3 year old high end laptop for ~$500, less than a low end laptop of the same caliber. Then add in some improvements such as more ram and an SSD, even try blowing out any dust (laptop fans are hard to reach). If she is doing more, such as photoshopping and other processor intensive applications, go right ahead with a new laptop. Just be certain you are getting the best product for the use case.
Beyond that, all I can say is Dell's build quality sucks and I would personally go with Lenovo, but make sure to decrapify their software (who needs another WiFi management program when the OS's is good)
A great site to filter the available notebook list based on specific criteria is http://www.idealo.co.uk/. I hope you do not mind the prices in sterlings; there is a French and German version available if you prefer euros (once you learn some specific terms like "Festplatte", it's not a problem even if it is in a foreign language, and in any case Google Translate is your friend).
My first program:
Hell Segmentation fault
Three laptops with AMD APUs.
Buying a laptop with an included ssd is ridicolous.
Buy something cheap and simple and functioning like http://www.amazon.com/Lenovo-4334DBU-15-6-Inch-Laptop-Black/dp/B007CKQMPI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1338109451&sr=8-1 with a separate SSD, preferably a samsung 830 with enough storage for her needs.
In sweden, we have great comparative services, not sure if pricerunner exists in USA, if it does, it filters decently but not great.
And, yeah, buying directly from the big names is hell, it's way easier buying from retailers, at least in sweden.
... don't expect the stuff Lenovo developed by themselves to be as good as the productlines they did when they were still IBM. I'm writing this on an newer IdeaPad with some pretty annoying quirks, noise, heat, keyboard layout, wifi and sd drivers... not exactly IBM quality here.
"Is there a website, hiding somewhere I just can't find, that tracks all the multivariate versions and upgrade choices in an easily searchable database?"
I was similarly frustrated for my next to last laptop purchase. I had written down a small list of must-have specs, and was just looking for a database to enter my query. I ended up calling a bunch of stores to give them my specs until a sales rep pointed me to a website.
Note: This site is in Swedish ! A google translate of the site will give you the gist of it. For reference, my bank quotes 7.2 swedish krona to the US dollar.
There are a lot more options to fill in if you click on the "Fler sökkriterier" (More options) button, but I can't get google translate to translate the javascript generated content. Anyone who knows how to do that?
http://www.prisjakt.nu/kategori.php?k=353
http://translate.google.se/translate?hl=sv&sl=sv&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.prisjakt.nu%2Fkategori.php%3Fk%3D353
It currently holds 2294 laptops in the database.
Have fun slashdoting the site
If so, tell her to go dumpster diving for one - or two, or three. The last time I bought a new laptop was in 2001... after that, not-really-new-but-perfectly-serviceable laptops have miraculously found their way to me, usually by way of someone tiring of it and dumping it on me ('if you can fix it you can have it'). One of them was lying in an actual dumpster, packed in a plastic bag together with the power supply. It just needed a hard drive (which had been removed to protect the innocent, I assume - the machine previously belonged to the municipality) and a few gigs of ram, and voila, one 'business model' HP 2GHz Pentium M, as good as new. I'm typing this on a revived HP dv6000, similarly acquired. Just yesterday I finished repairs on a brand-spanking new but still dumped Acer. This way, I might spend â50,- on a machine. I typically install Debian (for me) or Ubuntu (for those less technically inclined) on them and throw them to the wolves.
And you know what? These machines last... I'm still using that machine I bought new in 2001... the battery still holds power, enough to provide it with its own UPS for when Thor takes out the power lines again (which happens rather frequently around here). That machine was bought at a discount shop in the Netherlands, made by Wistron and sold under the name Medion. In other words, you don't need to spend an arm and a leg for one of those machines with a fruit on it to get something which will last. As a bonus these things are typically easier to maintain and upgrade than the afore-mentioned fruit machines, replacing batteries and drives just takes a switch and/or screw (with normal slit/phillips heads) or two. New parts can be found on the 'net for a pittance so keeping these things running for as long as they are deemed useful is generally not a problem.
On of these previously-owned machines, upgraded with an SSD and possibly some memory (if it has less than 2GB to begin with) sounds like it would service your sister perfectly well. She'll be able to get 10 of them and still not break her budget. Why add to the rubbish heap when you can adopt a perfectly serviceable orphan instead?
--frank[at]unternet.org
Make a List of what is important. ... then something happened and they all dropped it. Another good filter. ... I don't have this on my list, but it is probably on everyone else's. My wifi router is still "G" only. ... USB2 is so 2010. ... I don't care about this at all - 2hrs is fine, but some people want 5+ hours.
* Is 768 really enough? I had 1280x800 for a year and it drove me nuts missing 200-400 pixels. I'm happier with 1080p now, but still miss my 1440p laptop from 2005.
* Keyboard - if I can't get the right typing on it, it is worthless to me. Apple keyboards SUCK! HP, Gateway, and certain models of Lenovo, Dell, Asus all suck too.
* Ports for devices. For me eSATA is mandatory. I like external drives that behave in every way just like an internal device - performance AND command set. This knocks out a bunch of laptops.
* GigE ethernet. For a time, it seemed every laptop would have GigE
* WiFi-N
* USB3
* SDHC and other portable memory slots
* HDMI / DVI / svideo / VGA - what sort of video is required
* Battery life
After you get all that done, now you start looking for CPU, GPU, RAM, HDD combinations to make yourself happy.
BTW, that budget is much, much, much too high. For everything in my list, I got a Core i5 with 6GB of RAM in 2010 for $750. The same laptop should be $500 now. It do virtualization and security scanning. The laptop will hold 16G of RAM. BTW, I'm still really happy with my purchase. It runs (2) 24" 1200P monitors through a KVM when I'm at home. The old laptop with intel GPU couldn't handle 1 of these.
For the specs that you listed, $400 should cover it - do not pay the apple tax unless you need OSX. Generally, Apple charges $1000 more for a computer than needed because they know their users will want support. That support is expensive.
If you get a $400 laptop for her, you can also get a $500 really powerful desktop, and a cheap tablet for the same price as a cheap MBP.
Honestly, you haven't really said what the use for this laptop will be. That should be driving your budget, not how much money she has in her pocket.
AVOID ALL (CR)APPLE PRODUCTS LIKE THE PLAGUE! DELL TOO!! Get a Lenovo, and have enough of your budget left to buy lots of other stuff. I see that all of the Mac fanbois have crawled from under their slimy rocks, but you must ignore them!
Your best value is a used MacBook Pro for your specs.
If you want new, consider dropping the idea of an internal optical drive and go with an external optical drive when needed ($50 to $100). Then depending on how much power vs heat pick either the existing MacBook Air (http://www.apple.com/macbookair/) or wait for the soon (June?) to be released next MacBook Pro (hotter and faster).
Macs last a long time, are more reliable and are easier to use making them a far better value. I have Macs that are over ten years old and running great. I have others on the shelf that are 20 years old that still run, I just don't use them as I replaced them but I keep them around for odd tasks.
The only problem I have with this is the statement that "Intel graphics downright stink." For gaming? Mostly.
Agreed. Gaming is important, however, to those who want to save money by plugging the laptop's HDMI out into a TV instead of having to buy a $300 game console.
The HD3000 that came with SandyBridge (and the new IvyBridge GPU... HD4000?) is good enough to play Diablo 3 pretty well
Ivy Bridge runs Skyrim, a PS3-class game, at playable framerates.
In a way, MacBook batteries are even more proprietary than Dell batteries because they're not user replaceable at all.
Are you sure it wasn't just someone bringing in his iMac to download OS updates because he can't get DSL, cable, or fiber at home? Downloading 4 GB of operating system is hard when sat and cell have 5 GB/mo caps.
How much street cred will a Compal bring you if almost everyone eles thinks it's knockoff of Compaq?
... just saying.
You are lolz, guys! I can buy a notebook or a laptop for about 15-30 minutes. They are all the same, but they all have "small differents". Besides, if someone asks me to help him with a purchase of a laptop, I'm always at 15-30 minutes. So, you are lolz!
Tell your sister to go test drive laptops and find one she likes. Make sure she focuses on input devices (e.g. keyboard layout, screen size, optimal screen resolution, trackpad/pointer location). When all is said and done you can not change these factors, the tech specs you can tweak with later. More RAM, larger HDD, or use a SSD, sure, no problem. Don't like where the Delete key is you can only buy an external keyboard which is pointless.
My sister went back to school last fall and asked me the same question. She had already found a Dell laptop she thought was good. I told her to go test drive laptops, specifically trying as many different brand names as possible. I requested she ignore price and just focus on the items of keyboard/screen/trackpad. In two days she had stopped looking at the Dell laptops and found she really liked the keyboard layout on Lenovo laptops. She somewhat liked ASUS laptops. In the end she bought a Lenovo, we replaced the HDD with a SSD and used the HDD for backups. She couldn't be happier.
Same issue came up in 2007 with my Ex. She went out and tried lots of laptops and ended up liking the keyboard on the MacBook. Her only complaint was no two button mouse, fine bought an external mouse and she was happy with the hardware. As for OS, she liked Windows XP the best (keep in mind it was Windows XP vs Vista at the time) over OSX. Loaded Bootcamp with Windows XP and she was happy.
As for me, saved me time of comparing tech specs for days on ends. I just waited for the "I've found I really like laptop X, what do you think of it?". At that point I just research if the manufacturer of laptop X is any good or the laptop X has any known issues.
Ha ha!
I do the same thing. I don't much like Macs myself; I feel as though I'm being treated like an infant by the OS and their corporate mandate. But the stress of providing free tech-support to people who don't have the interest and therefore, the know-how to solve their own computer issues is just too much hassle. I have learned to recommend Apple to people who know nothing about computers.
A good PC is far more interesting and useful to me than a Mac will ever be, but I enjoy knowing how my computer works, as well as having the power to tinker as I see fit. However, most people are simply doing other things with their time and focus. For them, let Mac be the way. Let the geniuses (and their wallets) do any computer related problem solving.
I've got other things to do with my time as well!
Five years ago we got my niece a Dell Vostro 1500 (the business version of the Inspiron 1520). It was getting really long in the tooth and she was considering getting a new laptop. After doing a little research I discovered that the Vostro 1500 is one of the most upgradable laptops out there. Using a combination of craigslist, newegg, and amazon I was able to perform the following upgrades for a total of $203:
Battery: 6-cell -> 9-cell (the old one had died long ago)
Storage: 5400RPM HDD (160GB) -> SSD (90GB)
Memory: 2GB -> 4GB
CPU: Intel T5270 @1.4GHz (65nm) -> Intel T9500 @2.6GHz (45nm)
Optical: DVD/CD-RW -> DVD-RW
I could have added bluetooth, a blu-ray player, or even upgraded the graphics card (!), but there was no pressing need (and I was trying to stay under $200). My goal is that she gets another two years out of it.
I guess my point is that, even though some of these upgrades aren't for the faint of heart, upgradability is something to consider.
...second buy whatever the right screen size is that she wants for under $500. If she doesn't like it, take it back and now that you know what she didn't like, get whatever else is on sale that suits her.
Don't waste your money on 'business grade' or supposed 'high end' laptops. They're made on the same assembly lines by the same people using largely the same parts, which is why you keep finding so much similarity. While one might make a specific quality argument for a more expensive model, generally you can buy two cheap ones for the price of one of the models meant largely to impress the people watching you use it. So buy one now and in 3 years, buy whatever the state of the art cheap laptop is at that time.
The latest and greatest? Why? My two most used and reliable laptops are a Lenovo T42 and T42p running Linux. I use one machine to back up the other. And my T42p (bought a few months ago) came at a cost of $31 on ebay (+$15 shipping). They are virtually indestructible computers (as opposed to HP, but that's another story). Not that this is the right choice for everyone, but there's more to computing than games.
Have her go to 3 separate stores that sell laptops and computers. Have her find 3 models (no more, no less) at each store that she likes the most. Have her rank all 9 models on how much she likes them. The one she likes the least give a 1. Every other one give some multiple of that depending on how much she likes it. Tell her to judge "Like" by how it feels to pick up, carry, use the keyboard, use the mouse, how it looks, how stylish it feels to her, and how the screen looks to her. Next, give each a score of the cost. The highest cost would be a 1. Every other should be based on 100 - the inverse of what percent its cost is relative to the highest cost. So, if the highest cost one is $1,000.00 then the $900.00 on would be a 10, the $800.00 one would be 20, and so on. Then have her give the list to you with all the specs that were available: Memory Type and Speed, Resolution, DPI, CPU type and speed, HDD/SSD type, capacity and speed, and warranty. You then assign a score to each based on the relative power/goodness of each of those attributes on a scale of 1 to 10. Now, multiply her "Like" score for each by the "Cost" score and each of the spec scores you gave it. The two with the highest score wins. Have her pick one of those two. Then, check on-line if there is anywhere to get the same cheaper. If so, order from there; otherwise, just have her buy it where she found it.
I think the problem is that there _is_ no ideal laptop. One needs balance weight against battery life against performance, keyboard touch, durability, cost, etc. The question might be: what will the laptop be mainly used for.
Why don't you start by generating a list of common features laptops have? Have her rank the importance of these features in descending order.
Before you even do that, ask her questions like:
"What do you want to use the laptop for?"
"How often do you plan on taking it with you out of the house?"
"Do you need an optical drive?" Remind her that optical drives increase cost and hinder portability.
Here's a great open ended question:
"What are the most important features in a laptop for you?"
If she wants to watch movies and TV, a large screen and an optical drive may be must have.
If she plans on taking it to school: portability, price, weight, and battery life are most important.
If she wants to use it to play WoW, an nVidia graphics chipset may be a top priority.
Does she have a tendency to lose/break things? Have them stolen? You might put an upper limit on price to ease the pain of these events.
Finally, ask her if there is any one application that is an absolute must have and that she cannot live without. For me, I cannot survive without Mastercam, Keil uVision, & Solidworks. For that reason, I'm married to Windows. I would be really bummed if someone got me a Mac and I couldn't run my programs.
There are stores selling refurbished business laptops. Those are typically older and have broken batteries, but fully sufficient for the average consumer who doesn't need a battery anyhow.
These are the things you interface with. No matter how well the laptop performs, if you don't like the keyboard, mouse, or trackpad, you will hate using the thing. Even if you're not interested in a MacBook, use its keyboard and trackpad as the standard, then try to get as close to it as you can. Almost every trackpad on a PC laptop is cheap, unresponsive, and frustrating to use.
Is buying a mbp to use it exclusively with windows a bad idea? does windows works just as well? are there any keyboard problems, does it feels sloppy, etc?
I've got a vostro at home and a latitude at work. Both "just work" out of the box. The vostro switches hdmi properly with no tweaking under Win7, and the latitude runs linux well including triple monitor support when using the dock.
I've had great performance with a Lenovo W520, using it for work. Nice sale for Memorial day
That's an insane budget considering the power that can be had for half that or less. I'd suggest grabbing something for around $500 and book a vacation with the remaining $1500
Having a dedicated videocard is key to the longevity of your laptop. I still use a laptop that was given to me a few year ago which was originally purchased in 2005 because it had a dedicated videocard and extended battery. I gave away my other laptops because they were so low-quality, burned my finger when using the track pad, and slow. Imagine, a laptop purchased in 2008 was running slower (even after format / optimization) than a 2005 laptop. I would also recommend to avoid getting a tablet until the docking thing becomes norm and processing power is much, much better.
Your recommendation works for *some* people. I've had friends, for example, who got by doing everything they wanted on a smartphone, but finally decided they wanted a laptop. It's pretty clear that what they're primarily wanting (whether they've really thought it through or not) is a larger display screen and a keyboard, on something else that's portable like their phone.
That means most laptops will do ... or even netbooks in some cases. Why pay more?
Other people, though, have a history of keeping the products they buy for many years. You know, like the people who finally get frustrated enough with that old Pentium 4, socket 478 mini-tower they've been running since 2004 or so on Windows XP, and think they'd like to just get a portable, as long as they're replacing it?
For them, yes - buy the Mac and don't think twice! It's foolish to blow $500-600 or even $300-400 on some low-end PC portable that's going to have a motherboard failure just outside the factory warranty period, or the AC adapter jack is going to break loose inside and render it useless. These people will keep on using what they buy for a LONG time, if it'll last that long. And even if they don't? A Mac has far better resale value than cheap PC laptops. They might sink more money into the Macbook Pro up front, but they stand a good chance of using it for a couple years and turning around and reselling it to recoup a full 50% of what they paid for it. I easily got back as much as $900 on a $1600 or so Mac portable purchase after 2 to 2 1/2 years of ownership.
I just bought a laptop online. It looked great on paper, had a great keyboard, and within 10 minutes it was driving me crazy. I hadn't bought a laptop since LED backlighting took over, and it turns out that there's now Yet Another Hidden Specification you have to check for.
Most manufacturers (not Apple) use pulse-width modulation (PWM) to control the backlight brightness. When you set the brightness to less than 100%, the backlight LEDs will be pulsing at some fixed frequency (perhaps 200-700 Hz) and a duty cycle determined by your brightness setting. (Some laptops may pulse the backlight even at 100% brightness, depending on the backlight LEDs.)
The problem is the laptops with a PWM frequency closer to 200 Hz than 700. This is above your eye's flicker-fusion threshold, so if you're staring directly at the screen you won't see any blinking. But when your eyes are moving over text, instead of getting a nice clean motion blur, they'll get a few distinct copies of the letters. This makes the screen look blurry in a weird indefinable way that can drive you crazy. (It gives me headaches.) At higher PWM frequencies, your eye sees something closer to a true motion blur, and the problem decreases.
The problem is much worse with LED backlights than CCFLs, because the CCFLs respond more slowly to the PWM pulses, so the brightness ramps up and down more evenly. LEDs respond quickly, producing clean, sharp pulses.
Unfortunately, no manufacturer seems to list the backlight PWM frequency in their specifications. Luckily, it's not too difficult to test if you have the laptop in front of you. Go to a store and look at the demo laptops. Bring up a mostly-white screen (e.g. a web browser displaying about:blank), then turn down the backlight to 50%. Wave your hand back and forth in front of the screen as fast as you can. You probably won't see a nice clean motion blur unless you're looking at a Mac. Instead you'll see many distinct outlines of your fingers. If you see a lot of outlines, spaced close together, the backlight is decent. If you see a few, spaced far apart, beware! I tried this earlier this week at my local Best Buy, and only a few laptops had a PWM frequency higher than the one that was giving me headaches.
This article explains the problem in more detail, including instructions for using a digital camera to find the actual PWM frequency of your monitor.
Why not get yourself something which gives you the option of running OS X:
http://www.macbreaker.com/2012/03/four-best-hackintosh-laptops-for-2012.html
I suggest you check out Puget Systems http://www.pugetsystems.com/. Theie prices might be a bit high, but they make up for that with superior customer service and, their systems have lifetime tech support/service lifetime warranty. Theiy are a Windoze shop, but they do know (and are not afraid of) Linux. I purchased one of their high-end laptops a few months back, and have nothing but goot things to say about their product.
Before you look at any models, ask your sister one question: what does she plan to use the laptop for?
Take note of the following: -workload: will the laptop be primarily for web/media consumption, office documents work, programming, video editing, or (the most demanding of all) gaming? This determines the performance of the laptop that you require, and therefore the CPU/GPU configuration, storage requirement, and size of the laptop you can get.
-portability: is the laptop going to be carried around a lot? A lot of laptops actually don't travel much beyond different rooms in your house, versus in a business-use scenario where it goes from home to work to meetings every day, this determines how large the laptop can be before your user get tired of carrying it. Also consider battery life: a lot if the time a travelling laptop will also be used on battery a lot more often than a stationary one, further limiting your choices (you may have to settle for low-voltage processors, integrated graphics etc.)
-durability: is this laptop going to take some punishment? As soon as you answer yes to this your list shrinks by 80% (Lenovo ThinkPads, Panasonic Toughbooks, selected Fujitsu and Dell models, and MacBook Pros in a pinch)
-longevity: how long does your user typically keep their computers before upgrading? This is a tough one for a lot of home users to answer, but knowing this allows you to save money if the usage period is.short and you don't need the latest and greatest to get the work done.
-special user requirements: does the user have something specific that they want, like a good webcam/speakers, pointer stick, a screen with at least a certain resolution, or just that they like a certain brand? This again cuts down your list of choices.
If all else fails, just being them to store and let them play with the laptops. Your user is going to use the laptop a lot, so it's very important that they're happy with using it. Don't just buy for power or best bang for the buck, it's pointless if the user hates using it.
I did a lot of my initial research based off of recommendations on this forum:
http://forum.notebookreview.com/what-notebook-should-i-buy/
Writing a post yourself will help you think through what exactly your (sister's) priorities are. Read a couple pages worth of posts and you will start to see the better options in different segments of price/performance/features.
I think the first thing to do would be to decide the required specs. Most people have no idea how much RAM, processor speed, or disk space they need. People think "Wow I can get that one for $300!", and then it's a steaming pile of dog poo that takes 30 minutes to boot op and open Microsoft Office. (I had this experience with a Sony P Series!) Apple is good here because they don't actually sell very low end laptops. Their low end laptop is the Macbook Air, which boots up in like 10 seconds, and can run relatively processor intensive apps like Video chat. My girlfriend even runs VMWare on hers (but that's a little Iffy even with XP on 2GB of RAM). I am not necessarily encouraging you to pick Apple, but look at their specs as a base-line.
On the other hand, there is no need for a fancy 3D card, terabytes of disk space, and the latest i5 processor for the average person who will just be running a web browser and office apps.
I would guess the average person should have at least a 1.5-2Ghz Core 2 Duo and 2-4 GB of RAM. Storage varies wildly by person, but people who need a huge amount will need some sort of external disk no matter what.
On the other hand, I would make sure it has bluetooth (for an external wireless mouse if they want), a long battery life (advertised life or 4-5 hours or more, so that they will get 2-3 hours in real life), built-in mike and web-cam if they want to use skype/other video chat, and a good build quality (metal if possible).
My point is that establishing the specs first makes it easier to look at the relevant slice of models from each vendor and then compare on price, quality, extras, etc. - rather than being overwhelmed with too much stuff.
If you have the skills, buy a core i3 or i5 laptop, get a 64 bit OS with recovery media, get a SSD drive, prob 120 GB to be safe, and reinstall Windows on the SSD. It will be the fastest laptop you could possibly want. That Dell 11.6" with an additional 4GB RAM stick and then a 60 GB OCZ SSD drive, 475$ for something that would rock as an everyday web browser...go with that
In sane countries, minimum warranty period is three years according to law. And going through a laptop a year is being wasteful with resources.
It will be any laptop that looks good, is reasonably light or very light, from a reputable manufacturer with a decent warranty that is supported by Ubuntu, has a built in camera that's supported by Ubuntu, has enough USB ports etc. That's about it. Then use any left over money to buy a Samsung Galaxy tab if u want one. Touchscreen tab market lacks options to perplex u.
and say goodbye to playing sysadmin and hardware tech for your sister.
You owe it to YOURSELF.
MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
That would be easiest for most light duty use.
MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
All these suggestions are just about as confusing as the dang manufacturers!!! I like www.hardware-revolution.com. These guys recently changed their website to be more graphical. The old site was ugly, but there were just specifications listed, broken down by price and color coded. Period. It was easy to scan and choose the right components. That being said, the site is excellent for information all in one location. They have standard rating guidelines and easily searchable categories like, "Ultra-portable laptops" or "The best gaming laptops for your money". They clearly list the qualifications for their decisions. It's a great place to go for the nuts and bolts...no fan boy crap or touting one brand over another...all specs, all the time.
I know this issue wasn't raised by OP (some comments do), but build quality really helps define a good laptop. IMO, Lenovo has the best build quality, at least for their Thinkpad laptops. OP never mentioned whether his sister is in school or not, but if she's going to be carrying it around in a backpack, you need something solid.
OP - please please avoid HP's and consumer line Dell's like the plague!
OK I only kid a bit.
Seriously, buy a desktop, and a smartphone or tablet.
Unless you are really doing a lot of work on the road you don't need a laptop. If you do work at home, but want to browse email or web while having coffee at a trendy cafe, then get a tablet or smart phone.
Probably cost less also.
The big question other that the stupid requirements that were listed, is what is the damn thing going to be used for. Unless you can tell someone that, their buying advice is going to be useless.
My advice to you it you are set to this course, go down to your local BesyBuy/Futureshop/Source whatever ask someone there, and they will fix you up with something you want. Also what is with your budget? 2k with no dedicated video? Are you kidding me? Go get an i5 whatever from the above places with whatever screen size you want for about 5-700$.
Oh and please don't do the apple fanboi's a favor... ugh.
Reinstall windows.
Or at least that is what they tried to tell me when the battery went to crap after 10 months.
Fight Spammers!
$2000 for a laptop sounds like a lot of money. Does your sister *need* Window$? If not, I recommend a System76 Pangolin Performance. For $923 you can get the features you want: SSD, screen resolution and GPU, good CPU plus 8GB of ram.
https://www.system76.com/laptops/model/panp9#
Word... Spend half as much and upgrade in half the time. The only reason to spend more than $700 on a laptop is to get a decent video card, which submitty specifically excluded. Unfortunately, the only way to "narrow the field" is to look for a decent video card... that laptop market is still woefully small.
OTOH, the only reason to get a desktop is also to get a decent video card. Besides, it's easier to repurpose an old laptop as a bathroom netflix / social media feed / etc. Even low-end budget computers are fast enough these days. The only activities that take a "long time" such as video transcoding will continue to take a "long time" whether it takes an hour or 15 minutes.
Toshiba seems to have a good reputation for reliability, but don't shy away from a Dell / HP if you have a workplace / source to get replacement parts easily.
No, there is not such a site for laptop shopping, nor is there one for motherboard shopping.
The first reason is that manufacturers claim they have a RAM upgrade, but it's not in stock. So, the top 10 things you think you can do with a laptop you can not do. Alternately, they claim an extra battery, second HDD, and DVD, but you really have to pick one. I've seen a laptop listed as coming with bluetooth, but in reality it was a USB dongle that did not have drivers for Windows 7. If the resellers would actually be honest about what they sell, we could create such a web site. As it stands now, we can not.
I need a motherboard that has at least 8 SATA ports, and supports 24GB or more of RAM. The closest I got was spending several hours each on shopping.com, newegg, and a gigabtye.com.tw.