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See my other post - you should probably be using the Yellow Dog Linux, as Sony payed Terra Soft to port the thing to PS3.

http://www.terrasoftsolutions.com/products/ydl/

No tweaking necessary, and all the development tools you need, and updated.

Sony has payed the Yellow Dog Linux guys to port Linux to the PS3, so it's probably more optimized for it than Fedora (even though it's based on Fedora), for instance, by using the Enlightenment window manager.

http://www.terrasoftsolutions.com/products/ydl/

PPC has gone the way of the dodo more or less

PPC is everywhere. Wii, PS3, XBOX360. IBM's big iron is all PPC. Power5, Power6

If you want a desktop PC look at what YellowDog Linux has to offer. Here's all of the hardware they support.

Hell even look under the Wiki entry for PPC will show all the current Power/RISC hardware, PPC being one such implementation.

PPC has gone the way of the dodo more or less

PPC is everywhere. Wii, PS3, XBOX360. IBM's big iron is all PPC. Power5, Power6

If you want a desktop PC look at what YellowDog Linux has to offer. Here's all of the hardware they support.

Hell even look under the Wiki entry for PPC will show all the current Power/RISC hardware, PPC being one such implementation.

Try yellow dog linux. And yes they can cluster them.

I'm a developer on a major Linux distribution. I can tell that everytime more people shows up on the official IRC channels with the "Feature X is b0rken, you suck!" attitude.

That's the price one pays for taking Linux mainstream.

Mainstream users do not care about opensourseness - they just want their system work and do what they want to do it. And with KDE4 at moment nothing works as people expect - if it works at all.

In Windows land it is different: there is nobody you can complain. Normally you have to call support or local technician or friend hoping that they can fix it for you. Linux at moment lacks such "local technician or friend" option. Also, people do not want to pay for support (which comes bundled with Windows).

Add here the overall mess PC hardware market is and you have recipe for huge long-term problems.

And KDE4 shows clearly the conceptual divide between what mainstream expects and how F/LOSS function. On one side they published raw unfinished environment as they had to as open source project ("talk is cheap. show me the code." thing). On another side many distros to get on a bleeding edge rushed to include it as KDE3 replacement. This is dead-end for normal PC users - and Ubuntu already has bunch of them. It would take some serious explaining that they can go back to KDE3, because for them what is installed is what they get.

The only solution I can see (and it was suggested many times already) is for Ubuntu (and other Linux vendors) start selling PCs/laptops under their own brand. I could never understand what held Red Hat in past - nor do I understand now why Novell/Ubuntu (while keeping desktop on their roadmaps) do not want to go vertical. After all their primary focus (and Linux focus at large) remains server space where it is not critical. For desktop to know precisely whom you can report your problem is crucial: end-users do know little about IRC, forums and mail lists - nor do they want to get involved. They just want it to work.

After all, vertical integration worked (and works) for YDL (from TerraSoft) and YDL is older than Ubuntu and has many users. And hey - it really works well.

If only it was a PowerPC cluster!

Yellow Dog Linux distro home page.

There is Yellow Dog Linux http://www.terrasoftsolutions.com/products/ydl/ which was/is officially helped/supported by Sony and IBM, it even comes with exclusive Enlightenment version. I am very interested in it for 3 years as a PPC Only Mac user.

I think author thinks Linux is Ubuntu somehow. Especially considering Ubuntu DOESN'T support Power CPU (because Apple dropped, funny), one of worst distros to suggest to users is Ubuntu. Cell is a distant cousin to PPC (reminding Ubuntu geniuses too).

I don't get it. Ubuntu officially dropped PPC support last year.

So, why would Popular Mechanics recommend Ubuntu when you could download Yellow Dog Linux (for free as well from public mirrors), which is developed by the company hired by Sony to develop linux for the PS3. This sounds somewhat odd.

Disclaimer: I work for Terra Soft Solutions, so I've clearly got a bias here.

I don't get it. Ubuntu officially dropped PPC support last year.

So, why would Popular Mechanics recommend Ubuntu when you could download Yellow Dog Linux (for free as well from public mirrors), which is developed by the company hired by Sony to develop linux for the PS3. This sounds somewhat odd.

Disclaimer: I work for Terra Soft Solutions, so I've clearly got a bias here.

PS3 uses the CELL processor built with 8 cores and one is disabled, leaving you with 7 cores-one for the OS and 6 for games/apps. And it will boot and run a linux image, yellowdog, which is a ported centos. So there ya go, you can buy one if you want one. There's more exact specs at the links, that is a basic and probably sort of flawed summary.

To be pedantic, while it is true that PS3-Linux does NOT run "on bare metal", it is not limited as you describe.

There is some access to the registers on the RSX chip itself, which is to say, while there isn't an X driver that takes advantages of it, there are simple demos that demonstrate that there IS access beyond a simple fb driver to the graphics chip.

The hard drive may 'virtualized' but the data iself isn't encrypted. Take the hard drive out, and skip the first 10G or so (depending on how your linux partition is setup) to where your Linux partition should be, and you have your ext3 (or whatever) partition unencrypted. (Thus avoiding known-plaintext attack on the hard drive's encryption.)

Bluetooth can be accessed via Linux and is supported by the generic hci_usb driver. pascal@pabr.org also has patches that let you use the SIXAXIS with the PS3 under Linux. (Similar to the USB patches that Sony released just prior to launch.)

WiFi can also be access via Linux, or at least Yellow Dog supports this.

There is enough access to use dd to dump the entire blue-ray disc. Any security on top of that is not covered. They are useless for pirates, but I've heard there are torrents are out there.

Rumor has it that if the people working on the RSX X driver for Ps3-linux could do a clean room implementation on the usage of the RSX chip, then Sony would be free to actually release an X driver.

Why, yes it does!

Terrasoft did it first.

Sony's estimate of 1 teraflop per unit is more than a little bit optimistic, and also counts all the operations performed by the graphics system, which the average researcher won't have access to. For a slightly more realistic estimate of what 8 ps3's running linux can do, I'd point you towards http://www.terrasoftsolutions.com/store/index.php?submit=software&submitimg%5Bhardware%5D%5Bsolutions%5D=1, who sell turnkey ps3 clusters. They are claiming that 8 units together break the theoretical teraflop mark, which seems more realistic to me. While that isn't among the fastest computers in the world by any stretch, it's still solidly in the realm of what I'd call a supercomputer.

The cell is a fantastic piece of equipment - Dr. Dobb's has what I think is an excellent analysis of the kinds of performance benefits that it offers at http://www.ddj.com/hpc-high-performance-computing/197801624. I'm currently running one at home in a PS3 (for neural networks that drive an AIBO - I love Sony's tendency to dump hugely expensive hardware at mass-market prices), and I have every intention of picking up more used ones over the coming months to cluster together as the networks continue to grow. Even all by it's lonesome with code that's far from optimized, the one I have is running about 10 times faster than my main desktop for roughly equivalent computations.

(Note that your mileage may vary - I just happen to like playing with systems that parallelize really well)

Check out Mercury systems. These aren't exactly for home use, but they are shipping Cell + Linux computer systems. However, given the economics, it might just be better to go with a PS3, if you can live with the memory limitations. There may be other companies, but checking at TerraSoft (one vendor for PowerPC Linux software and hardware) takes you right back to IBM and Mercury hardware.

Are you sure about that?

Either you're worryingly ignorant or are trolling, in which case I just bit.

Yes, there is a gigabit NIC. Terrasoft even sells preconfigured clusters of PS3, though you end up paying much more than just the PlayStations when you want a full configuration including a head node.

http://www.terrasoftsolutions.com/store/purchase.p hp?submit=hardware&submitimg%5Bhardware%5D%5Bsony% 5D=1

Replacing the Blu-ray drive with a regular CD (or no drive at all) would make it cheaper to build but wouldn't reduce the end-user cost. Part of the reason Sony can sell the PS3 at a loss is because they see it as an investment in the HD-media war (Blu-ray vs. HD-DVD, iTunes video vs. Sony, etc.).

There are already Cell Based Servers on the market. But, given that you have to ask for a price quote, I expect they cost more than $600 (and don't come with "Motostorm" ;)).

Good points. I think there is a major hump Linux will have to get out before we get to the issue of selling the public on formatting their hard drives though: marketing Linux as an appealing brand. A consumer-friendly version of Linux will never succeed unless it is marketed properly. It won't matter how great the system is; it will just be another BeOS without a serious marketing campaign that speaks to dads and non-techie girlfriends. CNN won't touch it unless it's sexy or really fun. In order to achieve that Linux has to become something less like Windows and more like Mac OS X. A consumer-friendly Linux that has an amazingly innovative interface and which offers seamless integration with all your consumer electronics from your DAP to your camcorder, and hell your HDTV is something that is very needed. And it must feel polished. In 2007, no one wants an alternative OS that is like Windows 98.

The other night I was looking at Yellow Dog Linux for the PS3. Terra Soft who makes YDL has a series of superb video ads that I would love to see running on television. Look here. The commercials don't talk in geek terms. They feature a cute little girl, an attractive young woman, and a little boy sneaking in game time during his homework. The commercials talk about being free and independent, and having fun. Absent product marketing that makes Linux desirable to hipsters, I suppose the next best thing is to get Linux tied to a really sexy piece of hardware. If the next semi-translucent iPhone-looking all-in-one desktop or laptop ran an uber-sexy Linux, half your marketing work is done.

Yellow Dog Linux http://www.terrasoftsolutions.com/ Is not adverse to selling Linux to businesses. They use IBM computers. They also can help you with your PS3

YDL started out providing Linux for Macs, but went IBM when Apple went Intel.

How about a six node PS3 cluster? http://www.terrasoftsolutions.com/store/purchase.p hp

I've used YDL on several computers and have been happy with their distros.

Yellow Dog Linux http://www.terrasoftsolutions.com/ Is not adverse to selling Linux to businesses. They use IBM computers. They also can help you with your PS3

YDL started out providing Linux for Macs, but went IBM when Apple went Intel.

How about a six node PS3 cluster? http://www.terrasoftsolutions.com/store/purchase.p hp

I've used YDL on several computers and have been happy with their distros.

They really burned bridges by labeling our CPUs as some outdated low mhz monsters to millions of people, anyway, what has been done is done.

Speaking as a Quad G5 owner, I don't think Xserve Power6 would be viable choice since there is already AIX on that scene with some amazing IBM support. Look what they offer to PowerPC 970 (yes G5) Workstations and imagine what server owners get:

"Service Agent: The Service Agent is available at no additional charge. When installed on an IntelliStation POWER 185 workstation, the Service Agent can improve the level of maintenance service from IBM.
The Service Agent
Monitors and analyzes system errors, and if needed, can automatically place a service call to IBM without customer intervention
Can help reduce the effect of business disruptions due to unplanned system outages and failures
Performs problem analysis on a subset of hardware-related problems and, with customer authorization, can report automatically the results to IBM service"

It sounds like Apple Crash reporter but with a difference. The difference is, right after you even notice the problem, actual IBM guy comes to your workplace and fixes things if not remote fixable via service center.

For HPC, there is already Linux/Power solution which is said to be one of the best
http://www.terrasoftsolutions.com/products/y-hpc/

PowerPC G5 is a lightened Power4 chip. Yes that multi core, 64bit RISC CPU. That could give idea about the monsters mentioned on that story.

Not saying for you of course, telling for people who thinks about buying a Desktop based on Power6. I don't think such thing could happen except if IBM decides to update their "Real" Power Workstation http://www-03.ibm.com/servers/intellistation/power /285/ and CTIA is not essentially entertainment I guess. :)

If I were you, I'd really folllow http://www.terrasoftsolutions.com/ and http://www.power.org/ , I suspect very interesting things on way with PS3 (!) Cell Processor. Soon or later I will have to switch YDL Linux anyway so keeping eye on stuff. I even begged for PowerPC Linux Flash from Adobe already :)

Following the keynote presentation, the SCEA booth will be a central focus at GDC as the company introduces new development tools and technologies designed specifically for PS3 and the PLAYSTATION®Network, as well as PSP® (PlayStation®Portable) handheld entertainment system. The SCEA booth - Booth #410, West Hall - will offer visitors a sneak-peek at:

• Tuner for PS3 - Developed by SN Systems, a subsidiary of Sony Computer Entertainment Inc., the Tuner is a profiling tool that enables developers to quickly highlight bottlenecks and conflicts in source code, helping them improve code performance. The Tuner is a software application, so there is no special hardware required, which enables developers to create high performance games with less guesswork.
  
• Unreal® Engine 3 - Epic's next-generation game engine technology targets a diverse set of genres from fighting games to shooters to Massive Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Games
  High-Level Graphics Package - PSSG (a PS3 optimized cross-platform graphics engine and tool-chain) production-ready extensible scene-graph framework that is written to take advantage of PS3 strengths
  
• Pioneering profiling and analysis tools and physics technologies
  
• Developing with Linux on PS3
  
• Demonstration of downloadable titles from the PLAYSTATION Network, such as flOw, Blast Factor(TM) and Calling all Cars(TM)
  

QUESTION: Is PS3 support for Linux improved over that of the PS2?

Definately. Sony has designed the PS3 to run Linux. Your experience as an end-user will be optimal.

As I found a HPC guy on Slashdot , how does IBM P5 series compare to those Xeons or Opterons?

http://www.terrasoftsolutions.com/products/ibm/

Not that I will go out and buy them, I heard here (/.) that IBM Power processors dominate the HPC market because of their uncomparable specs.

But it also lets Windows and Linux applications run at native speed on Apple hardware

Gee, you mean you couldn't run Linux on Macs before?

This might be the answer to your YUM problems:

http://www.terrasoftsolutions.com/support/solution s/ydl_5.0/yum.shtml

Here's an article at YDL with info on the PS3 video modes with tweaks, recco's, etc... This provides a little more info.

http://www.terrasoftsolutions.com/support/solution s/ydl_5.0/video-config.shtml

1) I would expect MS to sell a solution that works with their own proprietary software. It has the advantage of running on windows PCs and the 360. You might note that there are a couple 360s and Windows PCs in existance, so it has the advantage of working with the largest slice of the pie.

2) Porting a driver won't do you a whole lot of good if your linux distro is running in a hypervisor that controls access to the RSX.
"The Nvidia graphics card is not supported beyond framebuffer mode. This does not reduce the quality of the image, but does not provide accelerated video nor OpenGL support. Refer to the this HOWTO for information about HDMI, Multi-Out and associated TV/Monitor connections." From here.
That protection will be circumvented eventually, but they Sony will release a new firmware (think PSP ) that closes that hole. So, no, PS3 linux isn't competitive with MS XNA.

Things never change.

http://www.terrasoftsolutions.com/tss_home.shtml

they are already porting the rsx driver.

1)Get YDL from http://www.terrasoftsolutions.com/tss_home.shtml

2) Have fun on your X11 running optimised PPC Linux

Sorry but why don't we discuss the Disk image mounting exploit ( http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2006/11/22/mac_zero_d ay_bug/ ) , some real stupid "Spyware experiment" ( http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2006/11/24/mac_os_x_a dware/ ) on Slashdot Apple?

I understand the slow news due to Thanksgiving but I can't figure the meaning of discussing of X11 on Apple hardware. Yes, if you have nothing to do with Aqua, better install/run Darwin or Yellow Dog Linux.

If you want Apple frameworks, desktop technology, run X11 Aqua on OS X.

Have a nice day

There is nothing stopping you from installing Ubuntu on the Intel macs if you are a masochist. I have Vista RTM installed on the other partition on my MBP.

AFAIK Mac's come with OSX and you can't order them without OSX either.

Sorry to be rude but "no shit sherlock". Macs bought from Apple come with OS X installed for "free". The hardware sales subsidize OS X development. If you really want linux, you could install it yourself or talk to the guys at terrasoft solutions. MSFt do not make hardware solutions, Apple does. Therein lies the difference.

there was Slashdot article on Friday with links to how to do it.

http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/11/17/ 1327239

Download the otheros.self file from SCEfoo,

http://www.playstation.com/ps3-openplatform/

download FC5 PPC DVD,

download the addon's disk (theres some detailed instructions on it too)

ftp://ftp.uk.linux.org/pub/linux/Sony-PS3/

and install.

You can find more detailed instructions in various places on the net

In a about a week you'll be able to buy Yellow Dog 5.0 for the PS3, supposedly it has 1 click install.

http://www.terrasoftsolutions.com/products/ydl/

I really don't know why you're so skeptical, this is not the first game console from Sony that supports LInux, officially mind you, this isn't some sort of hack.

They already do.
 

"We have worked closely with the energetic, determined E17 team to bring this advanced graphical user interface to a state of interface euphoria. It's not about eye candy and unnecessary special effects, it's about finding balance between a lean, uncluttered desktop and a personal environment that is both familiar and powerful. E17 is simply the most incredible thing I have ever used --with any operating system," states Cesar Delgado, System Administrator for Terra Soft.

Details are pretty light so far. I'd like to know if YDL runs alongside the PS3 cross bar media interface, resides in it, or what.

Oracle would make a Linux distribution so they could provide a one-stop 'solution'. Oracle targets the 'Enterprise' market, and most enterprise IT admins want solutions and support. They do not want to install another piece of software and fix it whenever an OS update breaks the software; they also never want to hear the phrase 'I'm sorry, but that configuration is not supported.' Controlling the OS and the application (and maybe even the hardware) would allow Oracle to focus on providing and maintaining a drop-in solution (think: Macintosh) for databases instead of supporting all configurations poorly (think: Windows). Most IT admins DO NOT want to patch and recompile the kernel of a mission-critical system (risking possibly hundreds of thousands of dollars in damages because of lost uptime). Even though all the code would be open-source, to compete with OracleOS in the Oracle-ready database OS market, an OS vendor would have to provide both top-notch technical support AND test EVERY new version of Oracle for problems. Oracle would have the advantage of mind-share AND would be in control of the entire stack. If an Oracle competitor ever emerges, it will probably not be able to overtake Oracle's distribution. Why did TerraSoft never overtake Apple?

Terra Soft has made the official announcement today, including more details. The distribution is being released with Sony's agreement, and will be freely available on public mirrors. Sounds like it's a fully fledged distribution, with some 'PS3 enhanced' applications, including gcc 3.4.4 and glibc 2.4, a Cell SDK, and enhanced versions of Firefox, Open Office, Nautilus etc. alongside the regular selection of apps you'd expect that haven't necessarily been 'enhanced' (whatever that means) for PS3.

Here's the full announcement:

http://www.terrasoftsolutions.com/news/2006/2006-1 0-17.shtml

Click on mol and you see...

"With MOL you can run Mac OS [X] under Linux - in full speed! All PowerPC versions of Mac OS are supported (including MacOS MacoS 9 and MacOS X)."

http://www.terrasoftsolutions.com/products/ydl/inc luded/index.php?s_cat_disp=2&app_list=32#2/

Tell me this does not kick ass.

You may now return to your regularly scheduled news about Jack Thompson and SCO.

2 DVDs w/YDL.net Install Support: $49.95 + Shipping Coming soon!
2 DVDs, no support: $99.95 + Shipping Coming soon!

You think that now -- check out this: Terra Soft, Sony to Build World's First Cell Cluster, powered by YDL and a stack of PS3's! (Submission rejected in favor of more Debian hairsplitting and inane Ask Slashdot's...)

http://www.terrasoftsolutions.com/products/ydl/del ivery.shtml

Full YDL Linux distro included with every PS3 right on the harddrive of each system. No wonder Microsoft is shitting bricks over the system.

http://www.terrasoftsolutions.com/products/ydl/del ivery.shtml

Holy shit.