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I urge everyone with a TiVo to contact Philips about this matter and tell them that you don't agree to this or abide by the sending of these longs.

I, meanwhile, urge everyone with a TiVo to read TiVo's privacy policy and stop panicking needlessly. TiVo's information collection is anonymous. Yes, they track button clicks. No, it's not connected to you. If it really bothers you, the privacy statement clearly says the following:

If you don't want even your Anonymous Viewing Information or Diagnostic Information used in any way, simply tell us by calling our toll free number (1-877-367-8486).

Seems pretty reasonable to me. Transparent and friendly. People reverse engineering TiVos have verified that if you call them, they no longer upload the data to TiVo at all.

Huh? From the TiVo FAQ:

The TiVo Service also allows you to:
...
- Transfer recorded programs to a VCR

I'm considering getting one of these, and it's quite a bit less appealing without this...

Also see:

http://webvcr.sourceforge.net/
http://www.tivo.com/linux/index.html

It It sure would be terrific if some capable hackers did a 'PVR GNU/Linux Distro' - JUST for this purpose...

The DirecTiVo is slightly easier to find, but your best bet is still to buy online and wait impatiently for a day.

If TiVo's having trouble getting these things off the shelves, that's news to me. I could have been a bit more proactive about it and I'm sure that I could find a dozen places on the web with TiVos available. But they seem to be selling quite well in my neck of the woods.

Linux is getting more corperate attension over the past 2 years. AOL-TW, IBM, and TiVO are among the compaines. Microsoft has even considered Linux a major threat to it's business. As someone said before, Sony is not violating the GPL at all, no argument. Even TiVo, a set-top box that you buy in a retail store, which actually runs linux, put out their source code.

Linux is getting more corperate attension over the past 2 years. AOL-TW, IBM, and TiVO are among the compaines. Microsoft has even considered Linux a major threat to it's business. As someone said before, Sony is not violating the GPL at all, no argument. Even TiVo, a set-top box that you buy in a retail store, which actually runs linux, put out their source code.

This is only vaguely on topic, but what I don't understand is why no PVR maker offers this feature

Yes! This would be an excellent feature. Please request this from TiVo - they are asking for feature suggestions. I requested this very feature a few months ago, and if enough people chime in with the same request it might just catch their attention.

To answer your question, my guess is that no PVRs offer this feature simply because PVRs have only been around for a relatively short amount of time and they just haven't had enough time to add all the features that somebody would want yet.

Seeing as how Sony licensed Tivos technology last October, that seems like a strong possibility.

If you're going to mount your high horse and pick at the tiniest of grammatical nits, at least spell "grammar" correctly.

And what do you mean, "if it's an embedded OS, because a hard drive would defeat the purpose"? Systems with hard disks need OSes, too.

This does not look much different than the '2nd-generation' Tivo that just came out - better known as the AT&T Tivo . This new Tivo also has USB ports, a smaller design. Although, it does only have 40 hours. I believe it's probably the same thing, though.

This report by the Privacy Foundation actually spawned an inquiry by the FTC. The facts of the matter, summarized in TiVo's white paper here, were sufficient enough for the Commission to dismiss any further investigation into TiVo's practices. At best, the Privacy's Foundation's report was technically flawed. Judging from their agenda, however, it seems possible that it was deliberatly misleading.

The announcement doesn't indicate what, if any, connectivity options they intend to use by default for the Tivo2. USB ports are great and everything, but if it still requires a modem line to get guide data and uses the USB network adapter for its "extended services"... Yuck.

Looks like they are starting up some sort of developer program as well. You can sign up for it at the bottom of this page. Anybody know anything more about this program?

I am not a deveoper my self I am just curious what it is about.

1. RealNetworks' RealOne Player will be integrated into all TiVo Series2 DVRs, enabling TiVo subscribers to create and manage their music collection on TiVo's hard disc and subscribe to RealNetworks' RealOne Music service. RealOne Music will enable TiVo customers to download and stream music from the music catalogs of major and independent labels, listen to more than 2,000 Internet radio stations and view artist and album information. TiVo users will have the option to activate the RealOne Player when they activate the TiVo Service for an incremental monthly subscription fee.

i hear all the /.'ers condemming software spyware but then they seem perfectly comfortable with Tivo logging their viewing habits then selling it to advertisers ?

I've got the TiVo cocked, locked, and ready to rock for the 2001 World Rally Championship season on Speedvision.

Guess I better enjoy it now - Next year will probably be a Nascar talk show marathon.

"I'm a busy tech head, and the last thing I want to do at the end of the day is watch commercials."

Good grief! You mean you don't have a TiVO yet? I have mine set to record all my favorite shows, and I don't ever bother with commercials. Also, DirecTV has much higher quality than regular cable or antenna or whatever it is that you use to watch TV.

I hear the "but I never watch TV" excuse all the time. I never watched TV either until I got my TiVO. Now I watch several shows and tons of movies. It's expensive, but IMHO worth it. And I don't have to go to the video store. ;)

If it's only worth 10k to me (and to all the other individuals/organizations), then the application will simply never get built in RMS' world.

Very interesting, and I'm not sure that I can refute it yet, or even that I want to. I don't hold the same views as RMS w.r.t. proprietary software. Still, I don't think it's fair to say that expensive software won't get built in RMS's world. Linux (or in RMS-speak GNU/Linux) got built despite the fact that it required >$1 billion in development costs. And cost Linus nearly nothing to get the whole thing started.

Now, if you personally want a custom OS, paying someone to tweak linux with your customizations is a *lot* more affordable than starting from scratch. You can even keep those changes to your self, and not give them to anyone else. The *only* thing you can't do is release the software in a proprietary format. And, surprise surprise, this is exactly what's being done, over and over again. Some suspect that this is a trend.

Also, we already have an example of a business model where legislated openness has created some monster organizations. The pharmaceutical industry, under the governance of the FDA, is required to publish their drugs before a very long and drawn out peer review. That doesn't keep them from pooling the resources necessary to develop hundreds of failed drugs for every 1 successful drug.

Of course, the pharmaceutical industry relies heavily on patents. I'm pretty sure that RMS doesn't like those either. If a purely RMS world includes prohibiting patents, the pharmaceutical industry would be in trouble in such a world. But if we limit the scope strictly to legislated openness, the pharmaceutical industry demonstrates that huge resources can be pooled even with legislated openness.

Add to this some very nice deals on TiVo's Special Offers page (as low as 49.99 for new DirecTV subscribers).

I'm not sure about the quality of the Hughes units, but both the Sony and the Philips units have high marks in customer satisfactions. I suspect the Hughes TiVos might be OEM'ed Philips units.

Not too long ago sky came out with a new PVR system called Sky+ which they are now starting to hype (though this questions if it is released). What's interesting is that sky have left Tivo to persue this option from Pace. One of the touted advantages was that the Sky+ will record the actual broadcast stream direct to disk, but I can't help but think the real reason for the change in tack from sky is that they wish to have more control over the capabilities of their customers (i.e. no Network card streaming hacks please).

Yes, but try
this.

$49, with 18" antenna and installation kit.

OK, what I want is a straight price for a pair of these, a multiswitch, and installation. There's a bit of this, and a bit of that, but I want a straight price for the bundle . . . and yes, I would want 2. We get no regular reception out here (this part of the state is *why* the state handed Penn State money and told them to develop cable). I either need a second unit of satellite, or a secdond receiver, for the kids room. As the price isn't very different, I may as well tivo it . . .

hawk

PLEASE, if there is a $90 Tivo out there at Circuit City or a competitor, post it by all means.

TiVo's Special Offers page has numerous units ranging from $49.99 (for new DirecTV subscribers--or $79.99 for existing subscribers) to $299.99.

Case in point: TiVo (At its heart lies the Linux kernel.)

Are there any Linux or alternate OS based projects that have real funding behind them?

Umm...How about TiVo?

I've just bought a used TiVo for $100. New units go for between $100 (for a unit that's good only with DirecTV) to $500 or so. Hackable and new sub-$300 TiVos might include a 20-hour unit from Best Buy (IIRC) and a 30-hour unit from here.

Before going further, let me say just what a TiVo is. The one-sentence description is that it's a digital video recorder; it records TV shows to a hard disk much like a VCR records TV to a tape. This description doesn't do the device justice, though. To begin with, if you buffer your live TV through the TiVo, you can get VCR-like effects, such as pausing live TV, performing instant replays, rewinding, and running something in slow motion. You can then hit a button to catch up to the live broadcast during a boring stretch (like a commercial). The devices get even more interesting if you subscribe to the TiVo service, which is $10/month or $250 for a lifetime subscription. When you do this, the TiVo device calls in using a built-in modem once a day and downloads TV listings. You can then search them to find programs you want to watch (no more need for TV Guide or the like). You can tell the TiVo to record specific shows, or entire series. In the latter case, the TiVo will do so even if the show changes time slot (but not if it's rescheduled at the last minute, say because a sporting event runs over). You can tell it to search for shows or movies by title, actor name, and so on, so if you like, say, Sandra Bullock, you can feed that name into the unit and it'll record all her films that it finds in the listings. You can tell the TiVo to record "suggestions," which are programs that match your profile of likes and dislikes that it builds up if you give ratings to shows.

Anyhow, TiVos are very hackable. They run on Linux, and use a 50MHz PowerPC CPU. Among other things, you can add or replace a hard drive. You might therefore get a low-end TiVo and expand it to over 100 hours capacity for the cost of an 80GB hard disk. You can also add an Ethernet card to connect the thing permanently to your LAN. (Even without the Ethernet card, you can get a bash prompt or PPP connection over its serial port.) There's a TiVo hacking FAQ available. It's a bit outdated in some important ways, but it's a good way to get a feel for what you can do with the device.

FWIW, I've not yet hacked my TiVo in any way (I've had it for just a few days), but I plan to upgrade the hard disk and get a serial connection going within a week or so.

I hear B.I.O. Bugs are quite hackable, and are based on work by roboticist Mark Tilden.

The SliMP3 is quite hackable, as the code's all in Perl (see the developer's list).

LEGO MindStorms are a perennial favorite, and are extremely hackable.

And let's not forget TiVo, which is a hacker's playground.

Finally, one of the new Compaq iPaqs can be hours of fun once you install Linux on it and begin having wireless fun with it.

On another note, Tivo just released a software update for its stand alone recievers. It allows users to store more content on their boxes by using VBR. Cool stuff.

Could somebody out there who has already received this upgrade post a comment on how well this works? I found the following at TiVo's website, but it was very scant on details:

http://www.tivo.com/support/updateguide_philips_2_ 0.asp

these devices ship with linux, it's their embedded os. linux is making enormous gains in the embedded world due to the fact that it is both royalty free to ship, the source is completely available, the development tools are both free and familiar, and there is a fair amount of developers out there who are familiar with the kernel/drivers (but you already know this, of course).

consider a device like the oh-so-popular tivo or something more obscure like the phatbox or other portable devices. the makers of these devices have the options of:

• paying a dollar to people like windriver (who effectively monopolized bsd, along with vxworks, psos, and others) or psion for every unit shipped
• a couple of large bills to for a development license (qnx, ...)
• a mighty sum for development tools (green hills, nucleus, ...)
• all of the above (microsoft windows ce)
• or, get it all for free by using linux.

under many of these options, i doubt these (probably very small) companies would have ever been able to afford to bring a product to market. and every dollar that doesn't go to a 3rd party at retail is a dollar that goes towards r&d for the super-tivo or whatever (or stays in your pocket).

yes, i'm preaching to the choir. let them sing.

joe

Indeed, Tivo runs Linux and makes all of the GPL'd code available here.

A README explains that Tivo offers the i86 kernel source that is used on the Tivo development platform and the source for the PowerPC kernel and all of the GPL-licensed programs that are used on the Tivo units.

Indeed, Tivo runs Linux and makes all of the GPL'd code available here.

A README explains that Tivo offers the i86 kernel source that is used on the Tivo development platform and the source for the PowerPC kernel and all of the GPL-licensed programs that are used on the Tivo units.

Once again, the magic word is TiVo

-Aaron

The modifications that they made to the kernel and GPL tools are right here in source form.

On the other hand, the application that does the recording, scheduling and rendering has been written by them from scratch, and as such they decided to keep it closed source. It's their right.

Buy Tivo

Monthly$9.95

Product lifetime**$249.00

Call me crazy, but when I do buy my Tivo (after I break down and get cable), I'll just get the product lifetime subscription version. Two years of service and you break even vs. the monthly payment, and I'm guessing I'd keep it twice as long.

Tivo download site for their mods to GPL'd software

They seem pretty set on using the SC1200 semi, but never really say why...I mean, there are a lot of chips to choose from, and I would be interested to know why the SC1200 is the one to use. Oh...okay. I get it: National Semiconductor is one of the sponsors.

But that's not bad, though. Personally I've had good experiences ordering parts from National. I wonder, when they get this done, could you choose to get the schematics and parts lists and build it yourself? Or maybe just get the printed circuit boards and key components as a kit?

I read something yesterday that said that TiVo (http://www.tivo.com) used GPLed code in their set-top system, and released the source code to the public. I am looking around on their site right now and haven't found it yet, but I would think that Linux4tv would be silly not to try to use it, if possible.

Their web site doesn't give a whole heck of a lot of information on it, but I'll give them some slack, seeing as it only launched "officially" twelve minutes ago.

I like the .TV TLD, though. Wonder if it was a bargain or if they had to pay a premium? And why the heck do you have to register to download?

PC game development is a marginally profitable endeavor anyway. For every iD, there are lots of losers. Aside from Wal-Mart specials like Deer Hunter and Millionaire, PC game development is a risky proposition at best. Retail software in general is an incredibly competitive business; the retail game software business is brutal.

Linux gamers, as a group, are willing to pay for games, but only for mega-elite titles. These are games that are already successful on Windows. In particular, multiplayer games are only successful with a large gamer population, most of which will be running Windows.

Console gaming is the only profitable market for most game companies. The margins are higher, the technology is simpler due to uniform hardware, losses to piracy are low, and there is significant revenue from rental outlets.

To those of you unwilling to dual-boot to Windows, do what I did - buy a cheap second (3rd/4th/etc) machine and a KVM switch. Or get a game console and rent software. Don't let funky OS advocacy blind you to reasonable alternatives. Hey, I love my TiVo, but the fact it runs Linux means diddly to me.

I own a ReplayTV box, and its 30-second "QuikSkip" button means that not only do I skip over the commercials, but I don't have to watch them. A TiVo user can only fast-forward through the commercials, so they are still seeing content.

Strange, then, that TiVo appear to be doing quite well for themselves with their Linux based set-top box.

I just went to TiVo's webpage and there is no mention of this "Richard Bullwinkle". Who is this guy? Why does everyone believe that this response is the "official" response? If it is the official response, how come there is no mention of it on the TiVo webpages?

nevermind, here it is: TiVo Linix source. Thanks Google...

So, Now that Ultimate TV has begun its marketing, What will become of them? And while I like TiVo, and feel they are actually a Good business, Doesnt ReplayTV have prior art? Interesting patent. At least TiVo got it, and not Microsoft. Because at least TiVo follows the GPL and releases the source to the updates they made to Linux. That alone makes me think highly of them.

Sorry to sound like a mindless drone with a brainslug, but I used to think there was never anything good on TV until I bought my TiVo. Now there's always something good on TV. Usually, there's a lot more than I can possibly watch.

I thought The Lone Gunmen was hilarious and I'm really sorry to see Fox pull the plug so damn fast. Sometimes, it's really hard to believe they're the same network that kept the X-Files on the air when it wasn't popular, or that had the nerve to put The Simpsons on the air.

http://www.tivo.com/linux/index.html gives you the source code for their modifications to the Kernel. No violation there.

Check out an interesting solution from ReplayTV, TiVo's often overlooked competitor. It's a Home Media Server idea that is quite intriguing. Of course, it's currently vaporware, but for those of us who have ReplayTV, this could be a the dream-come-true!

...another comment from Michael Tandy.

I love Dvorak's comment that networks haven't gotten mad yet simply because they haven't taken notice of TiVo yet.

Gee, well, let's look at the list of equity investors in TiVo, inc: CBS, AOL-Time Warner, Comcast, Liberty Media, Discovery communications, Showtime Networks, Disney, and NBC. So, gee, guess Dvorak believes either (a) NBC, CBS and friends don't count as "major networks", or (b) they invested in TiVo without having even a vague clue as to what the company would produce.

Good research, Dvorak! And you get paid for this crap?
--JRZ

The Privacy Foundation's statement.
TiVo's response.
The goat.
For what it's worth, they're the same folks that brought the Javascript e-mail bug issue to light, so whoever was proffering the idea that they might be in bed with Microsoft, seeing as how the timing of this (hot air blowing) coincides with Ultimate TV's release, well... I wouldn't be so sure of that.

This is TiVo's privacy policy, including opt out procedures.

You missed the obvious one -- a TiVo.