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I know HP made a tablet pc with a Transmeta processor. some other applications.

I know HP made a tablet pc with a Transmeta processor. some other applications.

I'd love something with 12hours battery life, regardless of processing speed (granted, anything less than comparable to a 350Mhz x86 would be a bit slow) so I can go outside to code, or to a cafe without having to sit next to a power outlet.

they proberly mean the crusoe chip by transmeta..

This just is another step in Intel's ploy to rule the wireless market through cheap and underhanded business practices. Not many people know this, or at least I didn't till I started shopping for a laptop 2 days ago, but all new laptops carrying the Centrino designation have to come with an Intel miniPCI WLAN card preinstalled or they cannot be called Centrino. Which is great except that Intel refuses to support Linux on their stinkin' card. (Yes I could go elsewhere, but for the price, speed, and power consumption, Centrino is far and away the best on the market right now.) If you want to monopolize an entire hardware sector, fine--good luck trying. But don't chain me to a stupid Wintel platform because of it. If Intel had their way they'd be the only supplier of WiFi cards within a few short years--then WTF do we do if we're not on Windows?

One wonders if this could open up a whole new market for Transmeta. Imagine, a bios that morphs to fit whatever it finds on the mobo anyhow - no more setup screens.

Seems like a lot of work when the could just license Long Run 2 technology from Transmeta.

Seems like a lot of work when the could just license Long Run 2 technology from Transmeta.

... are you seriously maintaining that the release of a white paper (ie: "We plan for our next generation of computers to be EVEN FASTER, woo!") detailing a series of products with no ship dates attached is much more important than a product that has actually shipped?

I guess I should have included news sources in my links, because there sure are a lot of them.

All sarcasm aside, your point is well taken. I like the article on the Sun site because it explains more about how the technology works than any of the news sites, but it seems that Slashdot editors are much more likely to accept a story if the link points to an "impartial" news source rather than a press release. Thanks for the tip.

The Efficeon (god, what an awful name) and the new Eden are both real products that I can now order in batches of 1 or more.

Actually, neither one of those products have shipped:

From Via's press release:

The VIA Eden-N processor is sampling now and is expected to start appearing in secure networking, entertainment and communication devices in Q1, 2004.

From Transmeta's press release:

... the Efficeon processor family will be competitive with, or outperform competing microprocessors operating within critical thermal limits such as the 7W limit for typical fanless notebook designs. Systems based on the processor are expected to begin shipping in the fourth quarter.

The point of it is that if you're at a desk, you can expand it to make it "feel" more like a desktop computer, though it still has all the proprietary chinciness of an IBM thinkpad.

I really wish that IBM would make good with the whole MetaPad, but they sold it to some other company who's gonna take the project named Antelope, but their site has disappeared, so maybe they're dead. Now that was innovative. :)

As in, the metapad was innovative, not Antelope dying.... really.

Midori Linux also has parallel boot scripts which really helps speed up the boot process on the devices that use it. The design is very nice (and based on Richard Gooch's) and doesn't rely on "make". It's named quickinit (it's just a .tar.gz despite the .mlz extension).

I'm not sure using "make" is the best way to implement this although it is an interesting idea. "init" can manage dependencies without too much additional code. The Gooch/Midori systems are nice because dependencies are implemented as simple commands in the init scripts. You just add a "need <service>" command and it will block until the service is available. If I recall correctly, quickinit basically managed a full dependency tree whereas the Gooch version maintained a simple list (which works fine until you want to do something more complicated like restarting X windows or handle resume/suspend using the init system). It's too bad no major distributions have picked up this idea.

Of course, rebooting needs to be first stable and second fast. It's not like we want to reboot all that often. :-)

Midori Linux also has parallel boot scripts which really helps speed up the boot process on the devices that use it. The design is very nice (and based on Richard Gooch's) and doesn't rely on "make". It's named quickinit (it's just a .tar.gz despite the .mlz extension).

I'm not sure using "make" is the best way to implement this although it is an interesting idea. "init" can manage dependencies without too much additional code. The Gooch/Midori systems are nice because dependencies are implemented as simple commands in the init scripts. You just add a "need <service>" command and it will block until the service is available. If I recall correctly, quickinit basically managed a full dependency tree whereas the Gooch version maintained a simple list (which works fine until you want to do something more complicated like restarting X windows or handle resume/suspend using the init system). It's too bad no major distributions have picked up this idea.

Of course, rebooting needs to be first stable and second fast. It's not like we want to reboot all that often. :-)

"Transmeta was a good company, but they didn't get their product to market in time." Transmeta is still in biz, they cause Intel to develop the Pentium M, and the have a new CPU [transmeta.com] in the works.

Transmeta has been addressing this for the last few years. I just bought an NEC PowerMate eco, which uses a Transmeta Crusoe processor, for my wife. It's not the fastest processor in the world, but it's sufficient for web-surfing and emailing, and the machine runs cool enough that it doesn't have a fan, and is pretty much silent. It's also made with environmentally friendly materials.

Most users however seem to want speed more than anything, leading to machines that use a lot of power and generate a lot of heat. Cheap diamonds would seem to make this trend worse.

According to Transmeta's site, the 'Code Morphing' software only interprets x86 instructions, so we're out of luck there.
However, it would be nice to have a boot-up menu like:

1) x86 - Windows XP
2) PPC - Mac OS X
3) UltraSPARC II - Solaris 9

Unfortunately, Transmeta's chips are mainly geared toward being low power consumption, I doubt making a processor that can do a decent job of emulating other processors is high on their list.

This increase is tiny - it's not statistically sound. It's smaller then the sampling error.

That said, I've just bought a Dev Kit from Transmeta, and I love it.

Nope. Go read it.

The GPL allows for them to accompany their binaries with an "offer" to send you the source at no more than their cost to do so. For all practical purposes, merely including a copy of the GPL varbage and some sort of contact information for themselves completely meets those terms.

Use the contact information. Ask for the source. Be willing to pay duplication, shipping, and handling because they're not obligated to put it on the Internet. (Remember, the GPL was born in the days when you were expected to send your own blank tape and self-addressed return packaging.) If you send your request by registered mail and they don't respond in a timely manner then, maybe, you could have a case against them for license violation.

We made a similar decision when I was a developer at Merge Technologies, that we would not make any effort to "push" the source. Instead, we would wait for requests and answer them as needed. As far as I know, it has never been needed. Not many hobbyists buy medical imaging systems, I guess.

My guess is that Linksys people probably hoped that the demand for mucking about on their hardware platform would be even lower than the demand for Midori Linux, you know... something like two or three hundred requests, max. (Hey, who knew it would end up slated for the entire population of China?!? )

-Rick
(one of the original Midori developers)

I thought Transmeta makes very compact very noiseless very Linux-compatible motherboards. No?

Yeah, especially when they came out with Midori and were touting embedded devices. Sadly, Midori hasn't been updated in almost two years. I still run it on my Compaq IA-1 and it does what I need it to do, but it would be nice to see some new features / updated packages.

Uh, where have you been?

Here's the press release alluded to in Linus' email. Still no mention of his leave being limited to one year.

Linux Creator Linus Torvalds Joins OSDL

First OSDL Fellow Will Devote Himself Exclusively to Linux Development

BEAVERTON, OR, and SANTA CLARA, CA, June 17, 2003 â" OSDL, a non-profit, global consortium of leading technology companies dedicated to accelerating the adoption of Linux, and Transmeta Corporation (Nasdaq: TMTA), the leader in efficient computing, today announced that Linus Torvalds, the creator of Linux, will join OSDL as the first OSDL Fellow.

As an OSDL fellow, Linus will work exclusively on leading the development of Linux, the open source software that he created in 1991 as a university student in Finland. Torvalds will dedicate himself now full-time to guiding a distributed team of thousands of Linux developers around the world. At OSDL, he will have hands-on access to its state-of-the-art computing resources and test facility. He will also help set priorities and direction for the Lab's different industry initiatives.

"It feels a bit strange to finally officially work on what I've been doing for the last twelve years, but with the upcoming 2.6.x release it makes sense to be able to concentrate fully on Linux," Torvalds said. "OSDL is the perfect setting for vendor-independent and neutral Linux development."

Founded in 2000, OSDL has data centers in Portland, Oregon and Yokohama, Japan used by Linux developers around the world. With investment backing from Computer Associates, Fujitsu, Hitachi, HP, IBM, Intel, NEC and others, the lab sponsors key industry projects, including industry initiatives to enhance Linux for use in corporate data centers (Data Center Linux) and in telecommunications networks (Carrier Grade Linux). OSDL is increasingly being recognized as the center-of-gravity for the Linux industry: an important and independent central body that invests in the growth and innovation of Linux for the benefit of customers.

"OSDL is a leading Linux-industry advocate with the single-minded focus of accelerating its use throughout the enterprise," said Stuart Cohen, OSDL CEO. "Linus' decision to join us is a confirmation of the importance of our mission. OSDL is the only organization where Linux developers, customers and vendors can all participate as equals. The addition of Linus' perspective and guidance to the Lab will enhance our value to all three of these groups."

Linux is the fastest-growing operating system in the world. Revenue for Linux-based servers grew 62% in 2002, while overall sales of servers dropped 8%, according to Gartner Dataquest, a market research company. By 2007, Gartner predicts that Linux may grab 15% of the worldwide market.

"Linus Torvalds adds tremendous credibility to OSDL's efforts to drive the evolution of Linux forward into enterprise computing and carrier environments," said George Weiss, vice president and research director for the research firm Gartner. "The computing market is still questioning how far and how fast Linux can go as an enterprise-ready platform. With Linus at OSDL, many will be looking for leadership from the lab for answers to those questions."

Torvalds will join OSDL on leave from Transmeta Corporation, where he is currently a Transmeta Fellow. Transmeta is an OSDL member and worked with OSDL on the transition. "Linus has made substantial technological contributions as a member of our development team here at Transmeta," said Matthew R. Perry, president and CEO, Transmeta Corporation. "Transmeta appreciates and fully supports Linus' strong interest in devoting his attention and energy to certain emerging industry-wide Open Source initiatives at OSDL."

About OSDL

Founded in 2000, OSDL is dedicated to accelerating the growth and adoption of Linux in the enterprise. Supported by a global consortium of IT industry leaders, OSDL provides state-of the-art computi

Linux Creator Linus Torvalds Joins OSDL
First OSDL Fellow Will Devote Himself Exclusively to Linux Development

BEAVERTON, OR, and SANTA CLARA, CA, June 17, 2003 â" OSDL, a non-profit, global consortium of leading technology companies dedicated to accelerating the adoption of Linux, and Transmeta Corporation (Nasdaq: TMTA), the leader in efficient computing, today announced that Linus Torvalds, the creator of Linux, will join OSDL as the first OSDL Fellow.

As an OSDL fellow, Linus will work exclusively on leading the development of Linux, the open source software that he created in 1991 as a university student in Finland. Torvalds will dedicate himself now full-time to guiding a distributed team of thousands of Linux developers around the world. At OSDL, he will have hands-on access to its state-of-the-art computing resources and test facility. He will also help set priorities and direction for the Lab's different industry initiatives.

"It feels a bit strange to finally officially work on what I've been doing for the last twelve years, but with the upcoming 2.6.x release it makes sense to be able to concentrate fully on Linux," Torvalds said. "OSDL is the perfect setting for vendor-independent and neutral Linux development."

You must have forgotten about Transmeta in it's early days.

So far in 2003, Transmeta has reported a net revenue of $6 million. (these numbers taken from Transmeta press releases)

These numbers are paltry compared to the industry giants Intel and AMD (especialy Intel), but they do reflect stability and massive growth since Q1 2002. No, Transmeta is no direct threat to Intel or AMD, but they deserve to be taken seriously nevertheless. The underdog is always forced to innovate, and market hype can swing an extra $2 to $3 million in revenue towards a company like Transmeta. Remember, we all laughed at AMD, too.

As for all of the negative comments, cmon, what do you expect? This is Slashdot afterall, and the creator of Linux works in a rather prominent role at Transmeta. This is exciting and encouraging to us Linux geeks.

I wonder if the emulation technique they'll be using will be similar to Transmeta's 'code-morphing'. I always wondered why intel didn't license that idea & use it on their Itanium. 'Code-morphing' achieved middle-of-the-road x86 performance on a VLIW (sound like a familiar goal?), but it was still far better than what Itanium gets with its current x86 support.

Future of user/subscriber go-everywhere & do-everything (GoDo for short) computing would include communications (GSM, WiFi 802.11x, Bluetooth, and IR/RF capabilities included). Still ... I would select Transmeta code-morphing processors as the technology edge for that future not Intel, Motorola, or TI ... though TI does now have a chip set that comes closer to the above stated goal for digital transmission systems. Transmeta code-morphing processors provide the ability to redefine operational spectrum requirements as you travel locally and globally with (I suspect, don't know?) less complex circuits/chip sets. The technology is known as Software Definable Radios (SDR). The future looks good to me ....

Related Links:

SDR.org - http://www.sdrforum.org/sdr_primer.html

TI DR Chip Set - http://www.eetimes.com/story/OEG20020109S0063

Transmeta - http://www.transmeta.com

Airship - http://wireless.iop.org/articles/feature/1/1/3/1

http://www.airship.com/prod/uses_telecoms_frames.h tm

OldHawk777

Reality is a self-induced hallucination.

You're right - talk about not doing your homework, eh? And searching google for Linux Tablet PC brings up a few interesting items, such as Transmeta's own Midori Linux project, and third party. Blame Monday.

AMD might not be there but Transmeta is...

I always thought that this would be a good application of Transmeta's "Code Morphing" technology. If it can provide an x86 translation layer then I would think java would be an obvious next step, and all (most?) of their optimization techniques would still apply. Of course, if that were true they probably would have done it already, so I must be missing something.

Check this paper out for details: End of Moore's law: thermal (noise) death of integration in micro and nano electronics

This might also bring totaly new prospects to the approach applied in Transmeta's Crusoe.

While the press release doesn't specifically state support for TCPA, it does state, "Transmeta said its Crusoe processors (which already feature Code Morphing software) would be slightly altered to tackle security and address requirements for securing sensitive data and intellectual property."

This is actually not surprising, considering that many of the Microsoft XP-based TabletPCs use Transmeta chips. It is a natural for them to want to acquire Palladium hardware support for the whole range of devices their OS runs on.

You can buy diffrent laptops from diffrent companies. There are probably hundreds of laptops on the market now from Transmeta powered toshiba librito which can get up to 14 hours of battery life, to devices like yours which are insanley powerfull.

You can't get a 14 hour mac, and you can't get mac as powerfull as your alienware notebook.

It's called "Open Source", a few of you may have heard of it.

There's a big group that controls a bunch of it called GNU -- they're wacky and pronounce the 'g' in GNU.

There's even a open source kernel called "Linux" started by some European guy. He works for some other company that does processors but spends a lot of time on the Linux thing.

Anyways, just wanted to point some folks at some other volunteer possibilities..

I think we'll start seeing all sorts of systems in the 10^2 to 10^3Mhz range over the next year or two. VIA in particular have some interesting products with their fanless C3 processors which operate at 500Mhz - plenty for most applications, and the Eden platform. People will be more interested in smaller systems which are quieter, cheaper, and which use less power. And when you can run things like Linux or Lindows you start seeing things like the Walmart PCs, which I figure is pretty much what they're after. Of course VIA aren't the only ones in this area, although I am more interested in supporting them (and Transmeta) than a certain other chip manufacturer with a virtual monopoly.

I do! ;-)

by VIA and Transmeta

Transmeta uses a VLIW (Very Long Instruction Word) technology. How long I did not see in a brief glance, but according to this article they have used 128 and 256. They do this as a way of encoding parallelism. Graphics processing also tends to have a lot of implicit parallelism which long instruction words help with. Both dedicated game consoles (eg the playstation) and graphics cards migrate to longer words much faster than general purpose computers. Years ago the 64 in Nintendo-64 was because it was a 64-bit computer. These days 128 and 256 bits are commonplace, and at least one 512-bit GPU exists.

I don't slashdot often and I wonder if this amount of misinformation and conjecture is the norm?

Just to clear a couple things up.

-Transmeta has their very own distro of Linux that is written for their processors. It's called Midori.

-The Code Morphing Software (CMS) does, in fact, use some system ram. In the TM5800 it was 16MB. I'm not sure how much the new chip uses.

-The Astro is developed to merge high performance with power savings, not provide one at the cost of the other. The chip has higher performance AND lower power usage then their previous offerings.

There is a preponderance of Transmeta information at http://leog.net/ and at Transmetazone

some more [in german] links for the lazy ones.

Amd and Intel may well have a slight lead in some manufacturing processes, but transmeta are using .13 micron for their chips and there is no way that you could get an Athlon or Celeron using 0.4-1.3 watts.

Can you think of anything people would want to do with a laptop that needs more than a 500Mhz pentium?

Most people don't play quake on a laptop, serious users of Maya tend to use Linux clusters I believe - not laptops, and 500Mhz is perfectly good for playing DVDs.

What I want from a laptop is:
enough speed to run enlightenment comfortably - 350mhz PII copes ok
128Mb + RAM
a big screen with decent resolution to get two e-terms next to each other
enough battery life to last all day
a usable internet connection.

the The Fujitsu® LifeBook(TM) P Series
has 933Mhz processor - fast enough for dvd/any other non-gaming/rendering use, has a 1280 wide screen more than big enough for two terminals next to each other, 128Mb ram, and over 10 hrs battery life (with the dual battery option).

-only thing lacking is the internet connection, but no-one does broadband acess more than a few hundred metres from a base station, so I'd have to make do with a mobile, yes I have surfed at 9600 and a terminal is certainly usable at that speed, and no I'm not setting up my own satellite link, that isn't portable yet (mobile but not portable).

Give me one example of an AMD/Intel powered product that 'spanks' this laptop and a rational explanation of the selection criteria. (excluding games and running a portable server).

This surely does all that is normally wanted from a laptop and far more without turning its users into stircrazed power junkies madly searching for their next AC fix.

All Transmeta need is more publicity and to find a supplier that stops spreading the myth tha Mhz is everything, (unfortunately the PC resale industry is built on this myth, to get people to upgrade). - it would also be nice to find somewhere to buy one without windows preinstalled.

Does anyone else get the impression that this will be yet another area where, yet again, Europe is going to be WAY out in front of the US.

Muslims have ideological reasons for ignoring their utter dependence on American technology, but Europeans probably have more benign ones- namely, American technological dominance is so pronounced (50%+ of the scientific Nobel Prizes each year go to Americans or scientists working at American universities) that it becomes taken for granted, kind of like the air you breath.

But if it weren't for America's unprogressive social policies many of the technologies the world takes for granted would not exist, such as new drug treatments (would AIDs cocktails exist right now without America's for-profit health industry making new research profitable?), computer hardware & software (the Internet was created for the American Department of Defense, almost all new chips are designed by American hardware firms, the modern computer GUI was developed by Xerox... yada, yada, yada).

So please have some perspective about where all your technological goodies come from. And as a parting shot I'd just like to point out all the foolishness that's been committed recently in the name of progress. During the '70's, for example, it was hip to be a Maosist and in case you think only a minority of people fell for this ideological dead-end why did the Beatles have to warn against it in the choruses of one of their songs?

make the chip compatible with x86 instructions -- the Hammer does it, why can't the PowerPC chip?

If that's such a great idea, then why isn't it working so well for transmeta?

you cannot buy a bare transmeta CPU. it requires a special flash rom for its CMS to go with it on a specially designed motherboard.

transmeta does, however, sell micro ATX reference design kits complete with a CPU. start there. see their website.

Irrelevant. Linux is not a USA product.

Neither is a "PlayStation game console", a "Casio watch", an "ASUS motherboard", a "Panasonic television set", or a "BubbleJet printer". If it's traded in the USA, it has to follow USA trademark law.

But are you so sure that the Linux kernel isn't a USA product? Linus Torvalds, the maintainer of the Linux kernel, works for Transmeta, and "Transmeta is a publicly traded company located in Santa Clara, California".

Guess the Chinese proletariat must be more lumpen than ours.

Time for a new distro: Lumpen Linux!

I would rather have this one.

All I can say is that I'm happy that I didnt accept a multitude of offers from dot-bomb companies when I was living in Finland. Luckely i work for a great company that is going to revolutinize the way we look at micro-proccessors so mine and my two daughters future is secure.

You'll want a Crusoe processor , it should survive well out on the salty seas, aye!

People keep saying no support exists for the product but look at the hardware using the chips. Myself, can't wait to get my new Picturebook...

Sony, fujitsu, nec, hitachi, casio, toshiba, sharp, mico$oft, etc...

Product list

I'm surprised this even got posted, considering 99% of tablet PCs will be running Windows XP Tablet and not Linux.

There's also the fact that Transmeta seem to be making progress in this area, lending the whole tablet concept Torvalds-powered street cred.