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It's the OS all your Windows applications and games won't run on...

i don't necessarily agree with them, but the wine folks have their own opinion about that argument.

Isn't that what WINE is for?

Sure, but unless you would like to emulate the Pentium 4 as part of the OS as well, you will need to recompile the apps. That means you need source code. Good luck running MS Office on ReactOS running on any of the non-Intel, non-PPC platforms here

This does most of those who maintain both a Windows box and an OSS box absolutely no good. The only reason they have the Windows box is for that one game, app, etc, that runs only on Windows/x86.

I realize I glossed over the first part of your post by omission, but really, Wine is what you want if you want to run Windows/x86 apps on top of a *nix compatible OS.

When we can create a truly fertile environment for elements like this in OSS, then we'll have arrived.

Go to Wine website, download the full change log, and grep for @transagaming.com, then come back here and post an apology.

Wine assumes posix and to a lesser extent X. BeOS is partially posix and totally not X.

Getting wine working on BeOS would likely require some work on both wine and BeOS.

More info:

• issues encountered back when beos was still by be inc. notably lack of things like select(), mmap()
• a list of problems as written by the now defunct (stalled you might say) BeWine project as they existed around 2000 or so.
• apparently some of the problems were insoluble, with incompatable ideas of the how to allocate virtual memory space (BeOS and windows incompatable really, not WINE's doing). Some new linux kernel features are bumping into this same problem but are all optional.. for now.

It's certainly possible that OpenBeOS could change around their idea of virtual address space allocation for a new ABI, but to support BeOS binaries, the original ABI would have to maintain these same problems. Extra work for OpenBeOS, with BeWine unforthcoming I doubt it's top priority.

Wine assumes posix and to a lesser extent X. BeOS is partially posix and totally not X.

Getting wine working on BeOS would likely require some work on both wine and BeOS.

More info:

• issues encountered back when beos was still by be inc. notably lack of things like select(), mmap()
• a list of problems as written by the now defunct (stalled you might say) BeWine project as they existed around 2000 or so.
• apparently some of the problems were insoluble, with incompatable ideas of the how to allocate virtual memory space (BeOS and windows incompatable really, not WINE's doing). Some new linux kernel features are bumping into this same problem but are all optional.. for now.

It's certainly possible that OpenBeOS could change around their idea of virtual address space allocation for a new ABI, but to support BeOS binaries, the original ABI would have to maintain these same problems. Extra work for OpenBeOS, with BeWine unforthcoming I doubt it's top priority.

Wine use an LGPL license http://winehq.com/site/license

This means that they may use WINE source code as they wish and add improvement to it by using it like a library,
mostly like Transgaming does.

They do NOT have to release their improvement unless it affects the library source code itself.

In most case, they will have to modify it, but not necessarily, if they choose to build on top of it or around it instead.
Think of it like a 3rd party library or component.

Slashdot blindly associate LGPL with GPL, they are different license folks!

This is a joke, right?

With Slashdot comments being offline, I actually read the article. The interview went on and on, but for the life of me I can't figure out the point of this. Wine lets you run Windows software on UNIX platforms. MinGW lets you run recompiled UNIX software on Windows. What could POSSIBLY be the reason for porting Wine to MinGW? That would let you run Windows software ON WINDOWS. You can already DO that! It sounds like they are trying to reduce dependencies on UNIX in the Wine code. Balderdash. They are just trading them for a different set of dependencies. Sure, it's a smaller set, but it's not like Linux doesn't already run on EVERYTHING. What's the big deal if Wine depends on things in every standard Linux distro? Why reduce the set of dependencies further, other than to waste time?

These guys are caught up in the idea of making the code more beautiful for the sake of beauty. "Fewer dependencies makes it more elegant." They are ignoring the practical realities--don't reinvent the wheel and don't fix what ain't broke. Sure, it's their time to waste, but Good Lord.

Truly, this is the most pointless project, ever. I feel inspired to write a Commodore 64 emulator for my Commodore 64. Object-oriented, with a pre-emptive multithreading message-passing lightweight kernel. That'll be better.

It's really "Sailing the WINE Dork C. That's why the geeks mattered.

Has anyone gotten the client running with Wine or CodeWeaver'sCrossOver? It installs and starts alright, but on the console, a bunch of warnings is printed:
CLOSE: WARNING: Unit 60 Not Opened
CLOSE: WARNING: Unit 62 Not Opened
CLOSE: WARNING: Unit 63 Not Opened
CLOSE: WARNING: Unit 64 Not Opened
CLOSE: WARNING: Unit 65 Not Opened
CLOSE: WARNING: Unit 66 Not Opened
CLOSE: WARNING: Unit 67 Not Opened
It doesn't seem to continue further...

For those who use linux, you can use a tool called WINE to play unported apps. You can even run it on the BSDs thanks to the Linux emulation,

Lets not forget the HUGE ammount of Native games for Linux! and BSD

Please help eliminate this misconception that there are no games for these platforms by adding to these lists!

PROJECT DAVID about to resign. Ladies and Gentlemen, we are proud to announce the end of the Project David joke. SpecOps, a Phillipines company, decided that it wouldn't be a good thing to show what's under the hood of Project David AKA CrossOver Office. The David Technology section is temporarily disabled, as well as the David Technology Validations and the David Development Plan. The SpecOps engineers are asking for more time to find and remplace all wine occurence to david. Chief architech said by the end of the year there shoudn't be any trace of WINE or Crossover Office inside the code. Then the CD will be released as a binary app. for $39. Technical support will be done through the WINE mailing list. Please be patient. Project David is about to be a nightmare for Steve Ballmer.

Proof that this is not a Wine "rip-off." Remember folks, this is what the GPL is for -- legal derivative works. It would have been immoral maybe if they had hidden the fact that it was Wine derived, but it's quite obvious they are not trying to hide it.

Yup, I discovered it too. It's right here.

>> and win98se for games

Bochs for the old dos games, and Wine for new ones (like, counter strike or warcraft 3 --ok, not so *new* ones) and you're free of the windows 98 price tag and dual boot

Another day, another example of the cavalier attitude that Robertson has regarding IP, the community, everything...

Michael Robertson is a strange creature, bucking the trend like Steve Jobs, but only in very, very bad ways. The funny thing is (funny in a really perverse kind of way), Jobs is generally the guy Linux zealots love to hate (he was the cool kid in school). Robertson is the Linux-popularising martyr for FOSS, the almost untouchable.

Back in the day, MP3.com was lauded as visionary, a chance for the music companies to make something of online distribution, and so on. When the RIAA poo-pooed this and went after MP3.com, he played the prima donna and we all boohooed together - Michael tried so hard, he really cared about us, he identified with us, he wanted to free intellectual property. He was on our side. When MP3.com died, defeat reverberated around the geek/FOSS world...

So then this thing Lindows appears on the horizon, with talk of full Windows application compatibility, something that was later dropped when the WINE team realised what a prick Robertson was. When any other company makes crazy claims like that, someone will get on the case. In this case, the Lindows team rewrote history to erase this little hiccup from their PR. There are murmurs on the Internet about how source is not posted and so on, but somehow Lindows carries on.

Then Robertson takes on Microsoft. Robertson is the Man again, the Good Guy fighting against every true geek's arch nemesis. When he loses, Microsoft are evil bastards beyond reproach (I am not suggesting that this isn't the case, but bear with me...).

I think perhaps this could be put a clearer way - ask yourself only "Is my enemy's enemy always my friend, no matter what?" Personally, my answer to that would be no, but I suppose YMMV. Put it this way, I have no desire to ally myself with a person whose sole motivation to free the world from the shackles of IP (which would of course undermine the GPL) serves only to allow him to continue to profit off the unpaid labour of others.

Robertson is not a visionary. He's the asshole who was never tough enough to beat all us Slashdot-reading geeks up, but never missed the opportunity to hurl abuse from just round the corner. And he strikes me as being from the same sort of management school as McBride - his ethics are about as loose.

iqu :s

More from the Wine devs at:
http://www.winehq.com/hypermail/wine-devel/2004/04 /0702.html
I asked project davied if they know what use of LGPL code involves, and if
the're using wine code, I got the following answer. The impression I have is
that they are using major parts of wine. They claim they will fully comply with
the LGPL. Here is the full email they sent me.

> Good Evening Mr. Smith
>
>
> Thanks for your email; We appreciate your taking the time to delve into
> Project David. We feel certain that the closer that you look at the project
> the more comfortable you will be with it.
>
> Our overall purpose of the project is to encourage consumers to use Linux.
> Our David Linux/Win Bridge software is simply a product to facilitate the
> transition to Linux. Our Linux/Win Bridge software is one of multiple
> components, which comprise our OS platform. In the future we will release
> another component, which is a set of tools that will encourage developers to
> write native Linux applications.
>
> The David software is a joint development effort between De La Salle
> University and SpecOpS Labs. Our Chief Technical Officer is Mr. Peter
> Valdez. As you may know Mr. Valdez is the founder of Tivoli Systems, which
> is now a multi billion-dollar flagship product of IBM.
>
> The code for our Windows/Linux Bridge is a hybrid of code, including our own
> proprietary code, and code from several open source projects. For now we
> are keeping the exact nature of our code under wraps until our first release
> of David. We are not using pirated or stolen code from Microsoft or any
> other source. As stated we are not disclosing the nature of our code or our
> exact methodology for running Windows Apps on Linux, this is for competitive
> and other reasons. However, a good deal of our success is attributed to our
> innovative methodology in assembling together open source code, proprietary
> code that we have written/purchased, and freeware. In the future, once we
> disclose how we have done this, then I'm sure a number of developers will be
> kicking themselves in the rear end for not having thought of this
> themselves.
>
> We do encourage the open source movement and we will comply with the GNU
> LESSER GENERAL PUBLIC LICENSE.
>
> Our website is currently under construction, the data (*especially the
> technical data) on the website for the most part is not current and in some
> cases is up to 20+ months old. We are now in the process of doing a major
> overhaul of the site, which we expect to be completed in a few weeks. *The
> technical data on our web site concerning David, is outdated and in some
> cases a competitive smoke screen. We appreciate your comments on the WINE
> Project and we have no intention of misrepresenting the WINE. Therefore, we
> are now consulting our English-technical writers and the Filipino -
> designers/developers of David to ensure that there are no mistakes in the
> translation. Until we can update the website we have disabled the links to
> both our technical and competitive data. Hopefully, the development
> community won't get wrapped around the axle about David, and will withhold
> judgment until David is released.
>
> So far as our product goes we just completed our prototype, which has been
> in the making for quite some time. Our first release will be issued before
> the end of 2004; we expect to start Beta Testing in about 4-5 months. On 22
> April we held a press conference at De La Salle University. During the press
> conference we demonstrated our prototype to more than 30 members of the
> local and international media.

I'd agree - very few BSODs with newer versions of Windows.

I've had it happen for these reasons:

Running a windows version of 'tail' from a remote mounted drive that unexpectedly disconnects on Win2K - not sure why, but running tail locally seemed to alleviate the problem.

Having a CAS setting that was too fast for the memory. Problem was, the mobo defaulted to that setting in its standard setting - normally I don't check that sort of thing initially when building machines, so I was surprised to see it.

A memory chip that went bad after three years, and a replacement chip that was also bad. MS's own memory tester found errors in the RAM, so again, not really MS's problem.

Bad video drivers. I forget if this was with my nVidia or ATI card (I think the former), but it was fixed within a few hours and the manufacturer pulled the driver update after a fairly short amount of time.

Wouldn't trust XP or 2K without Virus and Firewall protection, though - something I rarely worry about on my Linux or Mac boxes.

I seriously doubt this is real, or at least without stealing WINE code - and so do the WINE developers.

Here's the bandwagon... you know what to do...

There is an interesting thread on wine-devel about this, basically we just don't know what its going on about:

http://www.winehq.com/hypermail/wine-devel/2004/04 /0578.html

Getting your copy of Photoshop off Kazaa doesn't make it "100% free software"

We do not copy software illegally as this would defeat our whole movement, and we definitely don7t use any non-free software.

Did the OOo people do a bit of dressing up on this logo? I mean, at the very least it's obvious that the coloring was done with a computer.

And WINE.

Most of those business specific applications are low-powered database front-ends that would run perfectly in wine.

And considering the cost of training and switching versus the recurring costs of Windows licenses...

Wine, anyone?

In that case, you have two options:

1) Open the .doc in your linux word processor of choice, since they all support .doc

2) Get drunk you insensitive clod.

This has been done before. Try:

Wine if you just want a few Windows apps on your PC.
Win4Lin if you really want Windows on your PC.
VMWare if you want XP on your PC.
TightVNC if you want to access a Windows box from another box.
Samba if you want to share your drives back to your Windows box.

Why face the security holes of Windows when you can run Windows Apps in Linux! These two apps neeed more publicty then they have! Wine - Lets you run Windows applications on Linux Run Windows on Linux in a sandbox!. Be a good slashdotter, don't let Windows on the network, use the Penguin!

The ONLY reason I go back into Windows these days is to burn those weird-ass CD images.

BTW: does anyone know good tools similar to CDMage under Linux ?

Nah. It was these dudes who are responsible for wine, and it hasn't been around that long.

Yeah, I know this was REALLY lame, but I simply couldn't resist.

Nah. It was these dudes who are responsible for wine, and it hasn't been around that long.

Yeah, I know this was REALLY lame, but I simply couldn't resist.

The Wine FAQ states,

The documentation is often bad, nonexistent, and even misleading where it exists, so a fair amount of reverse engineering has been necessary, particularly in the shell (Explorer) interface. The biggest problem facing Wine though is simply lack of manpower. At one point, over 5000 people were working on Windows 2000. While Wine doesn't need to replicate all of Windows (we only cover the parts needed to make Windows programs work), that's still nearly 10 times more people working simply on one release than have ever worked on Wine, in the history of the project.

First, they say their main limitation is lack of manpower. Second, it's not that Microsoft has hidden the documentation, it's that Windows documentation "is often bad, nonexistent, and even misleading" - I've been under the impression that this is due more to sloppiness than to maliciousness on Microsoft's part, since MS, in general, benefits from making Windows an attractive program to developers, and bad docs work against this goal. I don't know that the EU ruling would make Microsoft go back and clean up their sloppy documentation.

Depending on what interfaces Microsoft is forced to open up, I could see opening the interfaces to be a huge benefit for interoperability with Active Directory and Exchange and for programs like Samba.

I am currently running Acrobat, Photoshop, Illustrator 10, (Not Outlook but it can be installed), Dreamweaver MX, and Microsoft IE on my Crossover Office install, and it enables me to finally do my job on a linux box. I don't really care about the hardware drivers, because I buy hardware that works with linux.

Games...Well. That's something else entirely. I've got Neverwinter Nights and Unreal Tourney at the moment, and I used to have Warcraft III on my WINE install before I got bored by it, but really, I think it's better if I don't play many games. It's such a timesink!

So, just because you choose an alternative option doesn't mean you can't have those applications. By the way, if you're squeamish about paying for Crossover Office, you can get all these applications running under WINE, via these great tutorials on frankscorner.org.

I think that you're mistaken. Wine does support DirectX and DirectSound to some large degree.

http://www.winehq.com/site/status_directx

Quite a few games work well under wine. In fact, a whole company or two is devoted to making DirectX games work under wine.

http://www.transgaming.com/

What? So if I download IE/WMP from microsoft, then use them on a Linux box with Wine, then I am technically violating the EULA?

This is news to me. Any idea where in the EULA that is? I don't think anyone has ever read that entire document, including it's designers.

"The creative force of George Lucas is at it again. Producing his own wine. "

I thought, that's cool, ILM is developing own wine . What the heck, it's not "wine," it's wine. The title is misleading on /. It should be said, "wine[booze!]" or "wine[code]".

... duh.

Without a Microsoft monoculture, he said, most of the recent progress in information technology could not have happened.
Really? Could someone more familiar with Microsoft and their products kindly give me examples?

• Samba
• FreeDOS
• WINE
• The XBOX Linux Project
• Ximian Evolution
• Open Office
• Mozilla
• etc...

I hope they DON'T go the "emulation" route - i.e. WINE

While WINE is a nice attempt to make a Win32 compatability layer, it is just too flakey to be used in a day-to-day business sense. IBM has used WINE before for providing Linux apps - HomePage Builder comes to mind immediately - and it was NEVER stable. Display problems, startup flakeness, and just general unstableness made the product truely painful to use.

If they want to do it right - and impress people at the same time, they should make a NATIVE APP

we already have that. WINE!!!

If you'd like to do away with that Windows box but you need Quicken, you could use Crossover Office. Or maybe first try Wine since that's free, but I have had loads of more luck with Codeweavers' commercial version.

The Wine that is being referred to is a software that is designed to emulate windows applications. If you would like to see what everyone is talking about try going here, until then please know what you are talking about before you waste our time.

I'm not sure about Open Source virtual machines, but my solution is to have a second computer and a KVM switch.

I've tried wine over and over, and it just doesn't seem to do it for me. I've almost always found an application in Linux that can do the same or better. Just look at their Gold List, it doesn't seem too useful.

All the big time applications seem to work in limited ways, like Quicken. I keep hearing how they (codeweavers) are getting close with Quicken, only to read that certain parts of the program (web connect) don't work. I'd rather have a cross-platform replacement.

I'm not implying there are dozens of programs solely for Windows that Linux users are dying for, but some people are married to one app or the other, and that keeps them from trying Linux.

Well, I've seen it reveresed engineered, so you should be able to do that too. Really easy, Wine runs it just fine, and gives you some powerful debuggers and logging tools to help. (Make sure this machine is firewalled off though so you don't contribute to the DOS attacks in progress)

I'm not going into farther detail because if I did tell you how (which I can't because I've forgotten the details, but we figured them out so you can too) and you were a script kiddie it would be trivial to write whatever program you want and cause more trouble. An honest hacker would have no problem getting the details, so I can safely assume that you wouldn't write this anyway so you don't need to know. (Either you are too lazy to do it, or you don't know how)

Now, can you have free as in beer in a cathedral? All the cathedrals I've been too (sic) serve wine. So is this free Windows free as in wine?

Since Wine is free as in beer, the question is irrelevant.

I suppose you know some of the previous [windows] worms worked ?

Cf wineh app db

When I wan't to use *nix tools under Windows I've always trusted Cygwin, but I can see how this project can provide a good alternative to Cygwin XFree86 as suggested in the roadmap. This could also provide an excellent solution for developers to test interoperability between Internet Explorer and Linux webservers - especially if they are limited to one computer. It could also be used to educate people on using Linux, it is a perfect match with Knoppix in this respect.

Wine developers could use this compare apps running natively and those running under wine side-by-side.

As for winex their site they have something similar. Search and see if the game you want will work.

FWIW, CodeWeavers has a commercial version of Wine which can run Lotus; it's supported too.