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Always Look on the Bright Side of Life
Dolemite_the_Wiz writes "The BBC reports that Monty Python's 'Life of Brian' will be re-released, with the remaining Python troupe's full support, in US theaters next month. The Film's Distributor, Rainbow Film Company are marketing the film as an alternative to all the hype that Mel Gibson's film 'The Passion of the Christ' has generated. Trailers for the Film will begin running in theaters on Good Friday. Wait until Biggus Dickus hears about this!"
I think this is a great thing to take that as humoristic rather than serious.
.....They brought us the aqueducts....
xao
http://TheHillforum.hopto.org
I have never understood re-releasing something. Are us as consumers so stupid that half an ounce of added value (some crappy interview added to the DVD) is enough for us to run out and pay money for something that last week we could ..... pay money and buy?
Well at least this time its Monty Python and not season one of Designing Women or something worse if there is!!
***I GOT NUTHIN***
I never got the chance to see the movies on the big screen, so it will certainly be an interesting experience to have it in theaters again. I can only imagine the kind of crowds it will draw, though :)
KappaStone
"Only the Real Massiah would deny his divinity!"
Gotta Love it!
-- "To ask a question is to show ignorance; Not to ask a question means you'll remain ignorant."
... can't hear about it because he's dead, you insensitive clod!
"Give away the stone, let the oceans take and transmutate this cold and faded anchor." - Maynard James Keenan
there was a heated debate on TV between Palin and some religious guy.
Have religious people took the stick out their ass, or will there be more criticism?
Although I seriously doubt it will be as widely popular; I am am excited about seeing this on the big screen. Great movie, even if it could be considered sacrilege...
Even if I knew that tomorrow the world would go to pieces, I would still plant my apple tree. -Martin Luther
My personal favourite - Brian: "You are all individuals" Crowd: "We are all individuals my lord" Lone voice from the back: "No I'm not!"
'Don't worry' said the trees when they saw the axe coming, 'The handle is one of us.'
Every scene in that movie is hilarious, from the shopkeeper who refuses to sell a fake beard without haggling first, to the Roman guard who insists that grafitti in the Latin language be grammatically correct.
I'm going to round up everyone I know who's never seen it and drag them to the cinema.
You are in error. No-one is screaming. Thank you for your cooperation.
We-wewease Bwian!!
Edith Keeler Must Die
is when John Cleese asks "How shall we f*ck off, Oh Lord ?"
Serioulsy, this one line and its context says more about religion turning into dogma than anything else I can think of...
you think it's easy, but you're wrong...
'Trolles Eunt Domus' ?
Somebody called the trolls they go the house ?
What's that supposed to mean ?
it means "Firstus postus".
-no it doesn't ! it'd be "trolli ite domum"
Now, write it out a hundred times. If it's not done by sunrise, I'll cut your balls off.
Trolling using another account since 2005.
Yes! We're all different!"
I'm not different!
:)
Are you local? There's nothing for you here!
Lucky jammy bastards!
have always been the masters of irreverence. The silly and sometimes seemingly lame sketches have always just been a veneer over them thumbing their noses at God, Queen and Country, bureaucracy, castes and whatever else they thought deserved a bit of a dressing down. Satire was their means of writing an indignant letter to the editor.
I know in Canada This Hour has 22 Minutes fills a similar role, what American comedy troups or performers do this in the U.S.?
Chris Kuivenhoven is a thief, beware
Call me flamebait, but I always thought Life of Brian was the Pythons' best work. Highly underrated, IMO.
now I have to put some lame text here because I cannot post an empty message
If you like movies about re-animated corpses, you may also like the new version of Dawn of the Dead. Here is a review that compares the two films.
It's for the people who can't handle the intensity of The Passion, or the comic relief people can go see after it :)
You can only really take it in good humor, though. He means it to be a joke, as is the point of all the Monty Python movies.
KappaStone
... SUMMON BEVETS!
The film includes a brief alien abduction, which should mean its even more suited to the good old USA that it was when first released. Religion and Aliens - should appeal to virtually everyone there.
As a thinking Christian (Yes, such can and do exist), I never really had a problem with Life of Brian. It contains nothing which denies or detracts from the life and acts of Jesus, and accurately portrays the unthinking masses in a clever and thought provoking way.
Really, the whole point of the film is that an awful lot of people believe things without fully thinking them through.
Happiness is relative, Based upon the way we live.
I rembember something about this movie being banned in Norway, on the grounds of sacrilege.
Could someone give some more info on this?
Surely the ban must have been lifted now.
Thampson the Thaduthhes Thlayer...
"As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly." A. Carlson
This proves it - there is a God! I've got a beef with the Catholic church these days. They stole my girlfriend, goddammit. Seriously. I was dating this great woman (bisexual, ex-stripper, rabidly anti-religion, thought for herself) who had a little problem with depression and phobia and found that prayer was the only thing that helped. So she turned back to the Catholic religion in which she was raised and kicked my ass to the curb! So I did the only sensible thing I could - blamed the Catholic church. First the Inquisition, then Galileo, then this business of protecting paedophile priests and now they freakin' steal my girlfriend! Bastards! This Passion of Christ movie has gotten entirely too much publicity lately and it's about time someone countered with an accurate portrayal of the life of Jesus Harold Christ. Amen!
Y'know, I think Jesus had one hell of a lag problem. It took him three days to re-spawn...
"It is dark. You are likely to be eaten by a grue." -- Zork
I'm so confused, with all these movies about Christ that are out now, should I be following the shoe? Or the gourd?
You see? You see? Your stupid minds! Stupid! Stupid!
try the language!
Great movie, but way too many man-pubes!
Bring out the Dead... Bring out the Dead...
The DVD has been available at most retail stores for a while. I highly recommend it to anyone who would like to see the "History of Religion in one Minute". "The Shoe is the sign" "No The Gourd!"
This is according to the Monty Python Biography _The First 20 Years of Monty Python_ by Kim Howard Johnson.
"You've all got to work it out for yourselves"
Have you Meta Moderated t
I'm glad that older movies are re-released. I am young and didn't get to watch a lot of great movies in a theater setting. I loved getting to watch Star Wars in a theater. The orginal one, not the new ones :)
The thumpers finally get a film and someone has to get all opposition-like. Sheesh. Let the fairy-tale sucklers have their little MOOvie.
ObBrian: The graffiti scene is one of the greatest scenes ever filmed in movie history.
"People called Romanes they go the house?" :-)
Would a Hollywood film ever have fun with Latin?
No. In the Hollywood version, they'd have to have to words "bitch" and "ass" in the scene 50 times, and there would be at least one fart.
--- Ban humanity.
Are there any woman here?
War isn't about who's right. It's about who's left.
"are marketing the film as an alternative to all the hype that Mel Gibson's film 'The Passion of the Christ' has generated."
Or as a way to cash in on all the hype of 'The Passion of the Christ'. Frankly I have to say that I respect Mel Gibson for getting this movie made when no one else would but the after effect marketing, the passion of the christ pins at Books a Million, and now this is just too much. I find it sad the Monty Python would try and cash in like this. I am even a Python fan but this is just sad.
See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
For those who cannot see it on the big screen:
B ri an/brian.htm
http://bau2.uibk.ac.at/sg/python/Scripts/LifeOf
I always insist Jabberwokie is in fact their best work. I believe it possibly is the least viewed. I have rarely met anyone else who has ever seen it. This allows me to make broad, sweeping, absolute statements than without opposition as no one has any evidence that it isn't the best.
I do honestly feel this way about Jabberwokie. It's not just me being difficult (although I often enjoy that).
is it good, or is it whack?
Did anyone besides me have to suppress an overwhelming desire to hum "Always Look on the Bright Side of Life" when Jesus was put up on the cross in The Passion?
I did end up enjoying The Passion more than I thought I would. Except for demons hounding Judas into suicide (I think guilt alone would have been enough), the crow pecking out the eyes of the thief (WTF?) and Satan's corny freak-out after Jesus died on the cross I thought it was well done. Anyone who thought this was overwhelmingly gory just haven't seen many gory movies.
WARNING: The above paragraph you just read contained spoilers.
Happy people make bad consumers.
Troll is a bad moderation.
As a christian I like the passion because it opens doors for evangelism and sharing my faith.
I am not sure if the release of this movie on good friday is poor taste or not, but I would lean to it is simply Pythonian irreverant humor driving it. The idea that this is a response to 'The Passion' is not very encouraging since it implies this movie is unable to stand on its own merits, which is of course absurd because the movie is very funny all by itself. I doubt many people who saw 'The Passion' will be as interested to see 'Life of Brian' because Monty Python's work is not as appealing to everybody, then again I didn't expect 'The Passion' to be quite as successful but it is amazing what a controversy will do for a film; but who knows, maybe this movie will rake in big bucks by riding the coat tails of Gibson's film.
Even if I knew that tomorrow the world would go to pieces, I would still plant my apple tree. -Martin Luther
Who needs a re-release? It seems as if the entire movie has been quoted here on slashdot before it even showed up on my RSS feed.
You guys...
The Mini Repository - more links
For reference, the two main Marian manuscripts cited are "The Dolorous Passion of Our Lord Jesus Christ" by Anne Catherine Emmerich and "The Mystical City of God" by Saint Mary of Agreda.
If Jesus was just a clever, wise or insightful man, his entire life was essentially wasted, and on top of that he is recorded as lying about his abilities. All of the serious documentation we have available from the time (and there's a surprising amount of it) indicates that he was considerably more than that. Jesus is better documented than any of the Caesars. There's also a heck of a lot of non-literate archaeological evidence which is very difficult to explain if the canonical record is not reliable.
But in everyday life "we're all individuals" and will carry on believing what the majority tell us. "I'm not!"
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
Despite how geniously funny this movie is, it is also a great look at how ridiculous terrorism is. I can't stop laughing at the hate the two terrorist groups in the movie have for each other, the People's Front of Judea, and the Judean People's Front. It's like the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestein and the Palestein Liberation Organization. I can just image these guys sitting down saying: "What did the Israelis ever do for us?" "They gave us plumbing?" "Electricity?" "Internet?" "They built our schools?" It's just an observation, let's not turn this into a flame war.
I'd like to ask some of the U.K. /.'ers what's hot (in comedy) now over there? After all, it's only a matter of time before we get the lousy knockoff, or better, the actual show.
I know "The Office" is big, and we have been getting of few of those shown here in Canada, but is there anything else on the way?
I don't have a couch, my floors at home are sticky and I've got kids who interrupt and ask, "why" at all the good parts.
Back in my day, we waited for Re-Re-Re releases of classic movies, and we liked it.
--
"You Insensitive Clod" is a registered trademark of the Anonymous Coward, a division of Slashdot.org.
Did Jesus extend God, or did he just implement a Goldlike interface?
I'm a writer, a poet, a genius, I know it. I don't buy software, I grow it.
Dude, those reviews are awesome. Nice.
Modest doubt is called the beacon of the wise - William Shakespeare
will no doubt be the cry from the Jews just like black people cry racism when they feel things are not going their way
ashamed of their history it seems
Brian: You're all individuals!
Crowd, in unison: We're all individuals.
Lone dissenter: I'm not!
I suspect that this scene made a big impression on Gary Larsen.
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
Monty Python's 'Life of Bwian' elicits stwong weaction
By: Incontinentia Buttox, Staff Wepowtew
Monty Python's 'Life of Bwian' gwossed ovew $117 million thwough its fiwst weekend.
Thewe's talk of Oscaw nominations. Many Chwistians say the film moved them to teaws. But of the welatively few Cleveland Jews the JPPF found who have seen the movie, most wewe distuwbed by what twanspiwed on the scween.
"It's a hawd movie to watch," says Wob Zimmewman, co-chaiw of the Judean Populaw People's Fwont of the Jewish Community Fedewation of Cleveland. "It's essentially two houws of Bwian being mistaken for the weal Jesus being stwuck vewy woughly and cwucified." Because of the gwaphic silliness, he is not wecommending that Jews ow anyone else go see "The Life."
He said the surviving members of the Monty Python comedy team "all agreed this was a good time" to bring back the film and would help promote it.
Any time is a good time for a Python as far as i'm concerned, Brian knows i need a laugh with all the(religiously inspired)"miscommunication" going on in the world.
Being an utter utter utter atheist it's so nice to see a movie (again)that manages to take the subject as seriously as it deserves to be taken.
Passion of Christ, Night of the Living Dead, it's
all really the same to me,absolutly first class horror flics.
"Kill 'em all and let Root sort 'em out"
Think of it... you can all dress up as your favorite characters and create new audience routines to go with the movie!
Erm, just leave out the literal nailing of somebody to a cross.
See the movie that's controversial, sacrilegious, and blasphemous. But if that's not playing, see The Life of Brian.
...would be a great movie to go see on Easter Sunday... *grin*
Not a Python film, although you'd be forgiven for thinking it was. And yes, I'd agree it should be more recognised than it is.
Cheers,
Ian
I have two boys, 9 and 6, that stumbled across my old Monty Python videotapes. I played "Holy Grail" for them and they were in stitches. I played "Life of Brian", and not suprisingly, the more sophisticated content was so over their heads that they didn't enjoy it. I played "Meaning of Life" and they were just plain confused, but laughing.
Maybe after a few more years of Catholic school, my sons will appreciate the brilliance of "Life of Brian". For now, "Holy Grail" is the hit.
The last time we watched it, my 9 year old son answered the question, "What is the capital of Assyria?". "Nineva, you dolt!" he exclaimed. He smiled and smugly looked up to me and said, "I googled it. I don't want to be blasted off of some bridge." That's my boy.
Do you think that a person bitten by resurrected Jesus would turn into a brain-eating zombie?
... on March 31st if I believe my local theater program. :)
Oh geez, a duke link, I hae duke, but am too lazy to change it.
if you must know the American economy is still the fastest growing major market, by far the largest, and from a purely investment stand point the best place to get good returns vs. risk. Otherwise, not much. Oh, the development of electricity. Don't forget the airplane and the automobile. Uh, and inventing the IC. Do'h, I forgot the high rise building. Oh and a whole host of personal rights, freedoms and privileges. Oh, the telephone, modems, ethernet and the internet. Well crap, the world would be stink hole with out the Americans.
Even if they do say Jehovah. :)
Will there be 23 seconds extra footage like in "Monty Python and the Holy Grail"?
You left out a ; in your sig. If you're going to use a semi-obscure language in your sig, at least get the punctuation right! Can you tell I haven't had my second cup of tea yet? And, yes, it is possible for me to be even more anal retentive than this.
your sig made me laugh harder than i've laughed for a while. thanks.
Jesus is better documented
The Cookie-Cutter Saviour "Jesus" isn't documented at all.
oh I forget, this is slashdot, so anything that goes (intellectually) over heads gets modded as offtopic, while the banal rates "insightful" comments.
http://slashdot.org/~GuyFawkes/journal
I am, and so's my wife!
One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
It's not a cop out if you don't care.
I never stop laughing at this genius film! Each time I find something subtle and new to laugh at... Leave it to Monty Python to show us all how stupid we can be! ..and ***IMHO*** to show us the true meaning of Christ's message. Truth is always funny!
... whether Strom will rise from the dead to dissuade SC theaters from showing it.
<apology>Sorry. A little South Carolina humor.</apology>"Who controls the past controls the future. Who controls the present controls the past." -- George Orwell
Hey God,
Thanks so much for sending your Son to earth, so that I could make a bajillion dollars off a bloody mess of a movie about his murder.
Your buddy,
Mel
P.S. I heard that Jesus was Jewish. Is this true???
Sorry a bit off topic I guess, but does anybody know who distributes the Holy Grail or Life of Brian in the UK.
:(
I run a cinema in the UK and I have been trying to get hold of it for a good few years now with no joy
We, as consumers, vote with our dollars. When you buy a movie ticket you are telling Hollywood, "I like this movie, please make more like it." Anyone sickened by the Passion craze now has the option to send an alternate message to Hollywood.
Jesus Christ and the Temple Of Doom
Donte Alistair Anderson Roberts - hi son!
Karma: Chameleon
At least at home I don't have to put up with 200 nerds trying to one-up each other by quoting the entire fucking movie while i'm trying to watch...
The only way I would go would be if there were a "no quoting" rule at the theater...
I hope you understand my real point in this headline instead of modding me down.
Instead of letting Life of Brian stand on its own, you just have to draw the the comparison between the Passion and proudly declare the the seasonal alternative. If I didn't know better, your end statement seems to imply you feel very threatened by Passion and comforted by Life of Brian.
Here's a small hint: live and let live. Nobody is forcing you to watch Passion. For a lot of geeks, the release of Passion would've been just as big a news item as this, but it has a snowball's chance on a blue star of having that happen. If you're not comfortable enough with your beliefs to let Life of Brian stand on its own, or feel that you need to try to counter or bring down the beliefs of others, then you need to address your own personal crisis without dragging all of Slashdot in with you.
No matter what I believe, I recognize your right to believe whatever else you want. You should do the same. Just don't use Slashdot as your religious indoctrination platform. You'd be smart to leave those comments to the comments and not risk losing a small segment of readers who see the comment for what it is and threaten your ad revenue. Most of us don't go around trumpeting our religious beliefs at work, so don't do it here.
After seen more than 20 Hollywood and independent films about the life and death of Jesus (Included Aardman's TV's clay animation) I went to see Gibson's The Passion last weekend and left the teather the moment Jesus started "getting it".
Gibson's portraits the good-ol self possessed- enignmatic dignified Jesus/uberman doesn't appeal me one bit. Nothing new there. Im not the only one out there tired with this cliche of the dreamy-eyed handsome-kind-gentle-loving image of Jesus.
Is there any insight or 9-Dlls-movie-communion/ redemption embedded with this
blood-fest. That's hard to tell. The film Is just as
revolutionary or money earning tool as any TV-Evangelist nowdays. IMHO of course.
Anyway.
I'm dare to write that does who know the Gospel's
and don't know Monty Python's film may get more
insight (read insight as think outside the box) from Python's film. But that's just me.
PD. Aardman's, creator of Wallace&Groomit.
PD2. per lucro cannis oscila.
- these are not the droids you are looking for -
e OfBrian/brian.htm>Title Goes Here</a>
would produce a clickable link when posted as HTML (i think it even works with 'plain old text', which it SHOULDNT)
Another generation of social misfits misquoting Monty Python to death
The Capitol Steps take swipes at Washington and world leaders.
Any idea where that originated? I've seen it a few times but never attributed to anyone.
Now, please mod MY post as "Off Topic", as it's a reply to a reply to a sig that has nothing to do with Monty Python, Life of Brian, Movies or even Entertainment.
Thank you,
Anonymous Coward
Sorry about the confusion. I never said that Jesus was just a man, but I mentionned that He took the human form once on earth. Therefore, he was limited to the human condition.
Another interesting fact (leaving the movie aside - this could not have been included in it), is that Jesus was living in the time of the great philosophers : Socrates: 469 - 399 B.C.E., Plato: 427 - 347 B.C.E., Aristotle: 384 - 323/2 B.C.E. just to name a few. These philosophers are also quite well documented.
I don't mean to influence your beliefs, but just to point out different things. You said that you're an individual who do not necessarily believes what the majority believes so I thought you might be interested by this point.
Finally, my last argument for now is that science was not very well developed in those days. Therefore, a scientific method or objective method or reporting the facts was not necessarily used by those who documented the life of Jesus (and of all other philosophers of the time). In my opinion, this is also another interesting point to consider when philosphing on the life if Jesus
cheersDrkBr
It was written by one "Dolemite_the_Wiz".
Try not to be so sensitive...
I've never understood this.
you're a christian. a thinking one, even. congrats.
why should that make you, and every other thinking christian, hate a specific set of movies? or have a specific set of political views (republican, usually), or read only certain types of books (and i don't mean bible-wise. I mean no sci-fi, no historical documentaries not written specifically for christians, etc.)
there doesn't seem to be anything in the bible about a hive mind. so why do so many try to act like one?
how many people completely miss the point of "The Passion."
Apparently they were two busy being mortified by the violence to read the subtitles which did in fact reveal much about Christ's teachings. Not only "The Passion" as in his death and resurrection but his passion as in the number of times he forgave those who were scorning him. If you notice he even forgave the people who nearly whipped him to death. The verse at the beginning was also key but apparently ignored considering all the critisism about it being anti-semetic. What part of "our" didn't they comprehend? Some guy even when so far as to try to tell Gibson to put a disclaimer at the end. IT WAS AT THE BEGINNING!
One reviewer was so dense they complained (paraphrasing) "so much for love they neighbor." What part of forgiving your tormentors isn't loving your neighbor? Geesh. Apparently we're too accustomed to Disney morality tales where it's all cutesy and they spell it out for you at the end like you're 2 years old.
The whole reason "satan" was put in was to give Mel something of a narrarator. When Satan spoke it was usually a negation of something out of the Bible. I'd imagine that people who never read the Bible (or don't know even the basics) had no clue what the point of the snake was at the beginning. It was a reference to what God said in the Garden of Eden after kicking Adam and Eve out.
This movie really revealed a lot about those who reviewed it. The people who didn't "get it" and whined about the violence and didn't catch the doctrine that was presented are probably just generally bad at philosophy or never took the time to study the Bible. It's an art film. It wasn't intended to be a mass market film.
This is not a movie that you can just be a professional critic and have a valid opinion. It's amazing how many critics complained that a square has three sides.
On Topic: Life of Brian is hilarious and I'll definitly be seeing it in the theater. I've watched the DVD many times.
I don't know if I'll buy "The Passion" on DVD. It's not exactly a movie you'd watch just for the heck of it.
Ben
Work Safe Porn
I thought the goatse Giver was off the Net nowadays.
Donte Alistair Anderson Roberts - hi son!
Karma: Chameleon
"Come on lets go to the stoning."
The days of the digital watch are numbered.
Sinfest 2004-02-28.
A year ago i went to a christian school. I am not a christian myself, but all of the teachers were. The most fanatic teacher of them all were asked if we could see "Life of Brian" in religion class. Surprisingly enhough he answered "I really love that movie, but I dont dare to show it in class, since I may get reactions from the other teachers".
this is probably the most boring sig in the world
Jesus is better documented than any of the Caesars
You have contemporary (and I mean contemporary, not 50, 100 years post) documentation of Jesus' life? Something that compares to Augustus' Res Gestae, Julius Caesars' Gallic Wars, Marcus Aurelius' Meditations, Trajan's letters to Pliny...I could go on...? Do please tell!--
This sig is inoffensive.
Twas banned in Ireland as well, I remember laughin my bollox off while watchin the REAL holy grail... the pirated version of The Life of Brian!!
Excellent a bit of balance is restored to the world. Any chance of it being shown in the UK?
Saying Apple is better than MS is like saying Botulism is better than rabies.
If anyone can recall, back in the 70's Python films were always released as double features, with things like a travelogue on Bulgarian flower pickers dedicated to the destruction to the western world. Brian was shown with this little gem 'warming' the viewers up 1st.
I've always thought "The Life Of Brian" was a parody of the radical 60's political movement. Brian joined the Jewish underground because he's attracted to a girl, not because he really cares about politics. They plot meaningless proganda attacks against the Romans, and argue with splinter factions. I tought the aquaduct and "why can't men have babies" scenes where priceless.
What do you mean my sig is repetitive? What do you mean my sig is repetitive? What do you mean....
...is in evidence here.
It could only come from England, or some colonial off-shoot with private schools of Etonian pretensions.
John Cleese has said several times that he thinks LoB is their best movie. I have to agree. THG gets more play, but in the end it's a bit flat. LoB is brilliant.
In some ways you could equate the Life of Brian to a funnier Forrest Gump, but you'll have to see it to understand what that means.
A lot of people think this. However Jesus came to save the world from our sins and therefore HAD to die. Since every one of us (religious and non-religious alike) are sinners, the penelty of sin is dead. Thus a sacrified of perfect blood had to be done in redeem us for our sins.
Jesus had the power to bring himself down from the cross, but he GAVE his life up out of love for you and me, so that we may all be saved.
The only thing that will stop you from fulfilling your dreams is you. - Tom Bradley
Where's the fetus going to gestate? In a box?
Don't you oppress me!
The only reason we have the rights we have is that people just like us died to gain those rights. -- Cheerio Boy
Re-releasing makes perfect sense if you can make money off of it. If a movie came out a generation ago (which Life of Brian did) then that's a whole generation in the original target demographic that didn't see it in the theaters, most of whom never saw it at all.
Frankly I wish they'd re-release more good old movies. It would cut down on the embarassingly crappy remakes, and hopefully cut back on the number of crappy movies made yearly as well since they'd have some stiff competition. Film festivals just don't have the critical mass and eyeball coverage that a wide re-release does.
Personally I rarely watch anything more than once, and if I do it's generally many many years apart. So buying DVDs/videos doesn't make any sense to me in the first place. I rent or see it in the theaters.
As for The Passion, Mel Gibson has cleverly made a film that people go to as an act of faith. He'll be making money hand over fist on this film for years if not decades to come. People don't even have to enjoy it, they just have to feel like seeing it makes them pious. Because if you haven't seen The Passion you're not a good Christian.
So here's the real question - what will be re-released next year around easter as counterprogramming to the re-release of The Passion of The Christ? And the next? And will this lead to more companies re-releasing old films in theaters?
---If you can't trust a nerd, who can you trust?
Jesus ut2k4 mod here
So will the pirates be re-releasing cam versions or only DVD rips?
I'm not.
-=- Many seek good nights and lose good days.
If Jesus was just a clever, wise or insightful man, his entire life was essentially wasted, and on top of that he is recorded as lying about his abilities. All of the serious documentation we have available from the time (and there's a surprising amount of it) indicates that he was considerably more than that. Jesus is better documented than any of the Caesars. There's also a heck of a lot of non-literate archaeological evidence which is very difficult to explain if the canonical record is not reliable.
It is simple enough for a one-word summary explanation: bias.
Anecdotes are not considered good evidence these days.
Look at any modern-day cult leader, then analyze what their followers write about them and their abilities.
What if Jesus and L. Ron Hubbard had switched places and times... what if his followers' documentary 'evidence', written decades after the fact, were what persisted in history? Would you then argue that indeed he was a war hero who used the power of his mind to heal crippling war injuries?
How about if Jesus and Sun Myung Moon swapped? After all, on objective record Jesus was a criminal, just like Sunny boy, but his followers say differently. His followers also have documented his mystical powers.
History would make all three of these men liars if their followers' word can't be trusted and they weren't really supernaturally connected. Yet Jesus is exempt because he got a headstart on the other two gentlemen?
Give it some perspective.
For all of his talk, Socrates is another figure who left no writings of his own. He is known to us by his disciples (e.g., Plato) and by his critics (e.g., Aristophanes).
Perspective shakes faith, and that's all that keeps many people sane, or at least functioning.
My blog. Good stuff (when I remember to update it). Read it.
--Religion is that which science can't explain
Do you have what it takes to frag Jesus?
Therefore, he was limited to the human condition.
And this is how he ressurected Lazarus, turned water into wine, did the fish n' bread trick, and all that other good stuff. Riiiiiight.
Possibilities:
1)It's all a bunch of bullshit. A bronze age soap-opera.
2)If there ever was a "Jesus" he faked it.
3)If there was a Jesus, he wasn't the son of god, and had no power. The rest is imbelishment.
You can't "sorta be a god", just like you can't be "sorta pregnant". Either he WAS (a) god, and therefore was not limited to the "human condition" IN THE LEAST, or he was ***not a god*** (but perhaps had some help from up above, at the most)
Make your damn illogical mind up.
Um, we don't have contemporary documentation of any of the Caesers, either. We have copies of documents that we are told were contemporary. Scholars have determined these documents to be authentic copies.
Additionally, contemporary documentation is not always a requirement. I don't have to see a bomb go off to know that one has. I can look at the evidence of the explosion.
SOMETHING happened in that time frame that created a HUGE social, religious and political change.
Taking the gospel accounts as essentially accurate, even though written some 30-70 years after the fact explains very nicely what that something was.
You can tell a great deal about the character of a man by observing those who hate him.
It might not be so easy to kill Hercules. You have to remember how he met his end. He was covered in caustic oil and in such pain that he asked his friends to euthanize him. So they built a funeral pyre and Hercules jumped in. The flames didn't kill him; they only made his suffering worse. The poor chap begged for mercy and his dad took pity on him and turned him into a constellation.
Interesting parallel to Jesus' "father, why hast thou forsaken me" line.
Weeks ago I said I would only see 'Passion' as a double header with 'Brian' (i.e. when snowballs lounge comfortably in a hot oven). Looks like I may have to 'eat my hat'. Oh well, always look on the bright side...
Regardless of how good or bad the Passion is, the churchies are going quite nuts over it. There are groups doing drives to raise money to buy tickets and to try and convince people to go. That is just silly. They aren't liking it because it's a good movie, they like it because it's about Jesus and so they feel they are SUPPOSED to like it.
Well, this is a poke back at that. I mean people (probably the same people doing the Passion drives) just VILLIFIED The Life of Brian when it came out because it dared to make fun of the church. They ignored any merits of the movie and hated it simply because they were supposed to hate it since it made fun of the church.
I've seen both.
The best part of 'Brian' is the end with the big 'show tune' at the end which is quite good! Other than that, the whole film before it is a hit-or-miss affair.
However....
'Grail' is definitely time capsule material! This film is pure, unadulterated comic genius from start to finish--including the 'ending'--in spite of its low-rent production values (filmed for about the equivalent of $500,000 1975 dollars I've heard). Monty Python managed to take material presented seriously in John Boorman's 'Excalibur' six years later (1981) and make it utterly logical, preposterous, and entertaining all at the same time!
To me, 'Monty Python and the Holy Grail' is the cinematic masterpiece from the Monty Python comedy troupe!
1. And Elvis said unto Jacob, 'Where's your
coat of many colours, then?'
2. And Jacob replied saying, 'You mean Joseph,
he's the one with the coat, I'm the guy with
the labber'
3. And Elvis shugged and asked, 'Then who's the
guy over there in the denim?'
4. And Jacob answered, 'That's my son, Levi'
5. And Elvis did smite Jacob upon the chin and
go his way from him.
Robert Rankin. The suburban book of the dead.
Yes, that Elvis, it all has to do with a time
travelling brussels sprout lodged in Elvis' head.
Although I'm nominally Protestant - Protestants - especially American southern Protestants - are the MOST ignorant and uneducated of Christians I've ever come across. This guy is a perfect example.
"Also Catholics, at least at the official not congregation level, regard tradition as importantly as scripture, completely inappropriate since traditions are man made and thus fallable if not in line with scripture (sola scriptura)."
"Sola Scriptura" is a man made heresey, and the Bible itself repudiates it. In Timothy Paul is talking about the OLD TESTAMENT - not the book he's writing himself.
Chruch Tradition and Scripture are ONE AND THE SAME - both inspired by God. But Protestants like to believe that King James was inpired to create the "correct" English translation, but the Church founded by Jesus just makes things up.
This is what happens when you allow some slick southern slave-trading preachers to pose as theologists and found a bunch of snake worshipping cults (which is what Southern Baptistism has becomes).
Damn, so FAR away from the Anabaptists of old too...
Calvin was also a heretic of the highest order.
Thank you for quoting the Bible, and letting us know that we must follow what God says.
I will add this to my list of things God has also said in the bible, which we must obey, lest we burn in the fires of hell.
A. Marriage in the United States shall consist of a union between one man and one or more women. (Gen 29:17-28; II Sam 3:2-5)
"B. Marriage shall not impede a man's right to take concubines in addition to his wife or wives. (II Sam 5:13; I Kings 11:3; II Chron 11:21)
"C. A marriage shall be considered valid only if the wife is a virgin. If the wife is not a virgin, she shall be executed. (Deut 22:13-21)
"D. Marriage of a believer and a non-believer shall be forbidden. (Gen 24:3; Num 25:1-9; Ezra 9:12; Neh 10:30)
"E. Since marriage is for life, neither this Constitution nor the constitution of any State, nor any state or federal law, shall be construed to permit divorce. (Deut 22:19; Mark 10:9)
"F. If a married man dies without children, his brother shall marry the widow. If he refuses to marry his brother's widow or deliberately does not give her children, he shall pay a fine of one shoe and be otherwise punished in a manner to be determined by law. (Gen 38:6-10; Deut 25:5-10)
"G. In lieu of marriage, if there are no acceptable men in your town, it is required that you get your dad drunk and have sex with him (even if he had previously offered you up as a sex toy to men young and old), tag-teaming with any sisters you may have. Of course, this rule applies only if you are female. (Gen 19:31-36)
It doesn't matter. You get a Null Pointer Exception at runtime either way:)
*** Sigs are a stupid waste of bandwidth.
Although, Sola Scriptura IS idolatry, I can't rightfully call Southern Baptists SNAKE-worshippiers.
I really hope you do get to see it on the big screen, all movies are better on it. However, I hope (and I doubt, unless MPAA has a hand in it) they will keep the movie uncut and its "R" rating. The gratuitous nudity scenes add to the humor.
Although, I'm sure if Steven or George got a hold of the re-release, the lions would be replaced with kitties, whips with walkie-talkies and other such atrocities.
When modding "Informative", please make sure it both has a source and IS actually informative.
have always been the masters of irreverence. The silly and sometimes seemingly lame sketches have always just been a veneer over them thumbing their noses at God, Queen and Country, bureaucracy, castes and whatever else they thought deserved a bit of a dressing down. Satire was their means of writing an indignant letter to the editor.
... which is pretty lame, nowadays. I love their humor, but only because I can evoke the distant memory of the things that they were skewering. It's very dated.
The things that they poked fun at (except bureaucracy) are long gone (at least as mainstream societal forces). We're all David Letterman now, sarcastically jabbing at the last century's orthodoxy as though it makes us soooo clever ... the Python stance is the mainstream now.
Meanwhile, today's pet orthodoxies go mostly unchallenged, as usual ...
There is no reason to accept the actual divinity of Christ, the existence of the resurrection, etc. in order to account for Christ's influence; thus, we need not take the gospels as essentially accurate. (Unless you don't think those issues are relevant to the accuracy of the gospels.)
would this be modded "informative"
I think you mean the Giver.
Contrary to the assertion that there is lots of documentation and proof the the Jesus story, there actually is no mention at all of him in contempory text except when forged by Christians in later years. There is also no archeological evidence either. It is most likely that Jesus is as mythological as Apollo and was made into a "real person" much later to suit the needs of the church and empire.
Consider viewing Robert Downey Sr.'s Greaser's Palace, which is far better than either The Passion of the Christ or Life of Brian.
You're an idiot, dear sir. I say this not to rile you up, but only to document it for when this page is cached in the years to come.
Uh-huh. An "Antidote" and "Counter Programming."
Hmm--"Can't have people actually believing the Son of God came to us to die for our sins! Nope, can't STAND them Chrisitians!" Is THAT their attitude?
Sigh.
READ the US Constitution, the Bill of Rights and the other amendments! http://lcweb2.loc.gov/const/const.html
The Onion newspaper has great satire! Good Cop Bad Cop, Both Racist... Christ Demands Creative Control Over Next Movie About His Life ... Rumsfeld Hosts No-Holds-Barred Martial Arts Tournament At Remote Island Fortress...Dead Iraqi Would Have Loved Democracy... see theonion.com!
I've never understood this.
You're a [member of some group]. [One that doesn't meet my hateful stereotype], even. Congrats.
Why should that make you, and every other [person who I will mockingly name by the way they claim to violate my preconceived notions of your group], [do something that matches my stereotype for you], [do something else that matches a stereotype] ([example other group "you people" all fit into], usually), or [do something ignorant that yet again matches a stereotype (and I will ellucidate further a description of my bias against you)]?
There doesn't seem to be [any reason or source material for you all acting like], so [why do you all act alike]?
If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
Hmm...sounds vaugely like the "New Testament" All we have is multiply translated copies of documents we are told are the "Gospels" (meaning testimony, essentially) of four dudes who say "Yeah, there was this guy, and he was really cool...look at all the cool stuff he did...we were with him, so you should obey what we say". There is abundant sociological evidence discussing the unreliability of Eyewitness testimony, particularly when the witness has an axe to grind (or an adgenda to advance). Not to mention all the contradictions. Let's face it, Middle Earth is better documented than the Bible is. Tolkein was just born 1500 years too late...otherwise we'd all be worshipping Gandalf...to about the same good Christianity does the world now.
Could you please provide us some links to any of this great corpus of literature you allure to?
As far as I understand it, there isn't a single piece of historcial literature where Jesus was ever mentioned. You can find a summary of historical evidence here, or read a detailed account Truth About Jesus, The : Is He a Myth?, available as Gutenberg etext #6107.
SOMETHING happened in that time frame that created a HUGE social, religious and political change.
Where? Palestina? Don't think so. Roman Empire? Continued as if nothing happened for more than 300 years. There really wasn't any significant social or political change around 30AD. Now religious change, undoubtly, but as for others, no.
If an historical effect could be attributed to an event 300 years before, history would be an even more uncertain science.
A current theory is that the island of Santorini (Greece now, Minoan at the time), which was volcanic, did not erupt but instead exploded quite suddenly. That explosion was the largest in the history of human civilization; if you check a map only little remains of the landmass. The blast would have been powerful enough to devastate every culture in the region. The fertile crescent flooded, leaving Sumerians upset. Minoan civilization vanished. The Greeks have a myth about humanity being wiped out. Down in Eygpt, water surged up the Nile, kicking up nutrient-rich red silt, which removed oxygen from the water, which caused the creatures (like, say, frogs) to flee the river and die, bringing flies, which made people sick.....and then all that firey ash starting falling from the sky and their Israeli laborers ran away. Sound familiar?
====--====
Together, we will drive the rats from the tundra.
What about the scene when Simon comes up to help Jesus with the cross, and Jesus runs away?
That wasn't particularly flattering.
But it WAS hilarious.
(Google)
His followers were transformed - from frightened idiots to fearless evangelists.
What do you base this on? The bible? It was written by those same followers. How could that be a reliable source then?
If some guy described himself as a former idiot, I would be inclined to belive him. More than I would an idiot who described himself as a former fearless evangelist.
Irene KHAAAAAAN!
In everyday things, we make statements based on our opinions, derived from what our senses tell us. For example:
"I do not believe there is life on Mars."
Now you cannot be 100% sure there isn't, because you've never been there. Even if you had been there, how do you know your senses were telling you the truth? You can never be 100% sure of anything like that. When we make a statement like the above, we give a conclusion based on the information available to us.
This is typical everyday reasoning. However, an agnostic will make an exception in the case of God, and say it is irrational to say he does not exist. Some religious people will say you may face damnation, so better safe than sorry.
If an atheist says they believe God does not exist, some agnostics label them extreme, and use phrases like "nearly violent rejection of religion".
I agree that is very wrong to lump agnostics and atheists (or humanists to be precise - many religions don't have a God) into the same category. In fact to see them as two variations of non-believers is a simplification. There is a facet of agnosticism which isn't focused on the existence of God. Rather it is saying "We are mortal. We cannot understand God. You cannot tell me that God wants this that or the other, and neither can your book".
${YEAR+1} is going to be the year of Linux on the desktop!
...is that all the self-righteous atheist/agnostic zealots out themselves.
-- What, you thought only organized religion had them?
While there is no DIRECT commentary on Christ, there is still enough satire about Christianity and religion in general to ruffle the fur of today's fundamentalists.
.I expect a bit of protest. =)
IMHO, the film's main point is a critique of humanity's inherent neediness. A neediness which will seek to deify a man with a good message (Jesus) or even one with no message at all (Brian).
This film questions the very foundations of religious belief. . .
-ST
Mohammed's life makes a great comedy. He married an older women for money. He became a used camel dealer. He had a favorite slave girl, Zaid. Then he went into religion around age 40. For years, he was considered a nutcase. Somehow, he and his followers managed to take over Medina, after which he started invading and conquering neighboring countries.
Visualize the Python version of that. It would drive the Islamic world nuts. But it would be worth it. Make sure it gets on satellite TV and file-sharing networks, so Arab kids see it. In most of the Islamic world, kids are forced to OD on religion, because the religious types run the schools. It's like the Dark Ages in Europe.
The last major film about Islam, Mohammed, Messenger of God, was way too respectful. It doesn't even show the face of Mohammed (played by Anthony Quinn), to respect Islamic tradition. The Saudis use it as a training film. It was pulled from US theaters in 1976 after threats from people we'd today call terrorists. Today, the US wouldn't back down.
Not only do the Scriptures support Church tradition - nowhere in the Bible does is Sola Scriptura even remotely supported. A simple question - when Paul writes in Timothy about Scripture - is he referring to his own letters? OF COURSE NOT. He's quite clearly referring to the Tanakh. "Sola Scriptura" is made up by Luther - who even wanted to keep James out of his "new canon" - that's idolatry, and MAN MADE.
The Church is NOT man made - the Church is created by God. Those who teach against it - like Luther and Calvin - are heretics, and preach against God, Jesus, and the Scriptures.
Them's the breaks - and that is EXACTLY what you get when you allow uneducated people to make up a bunch of crap about Christianity and the Bible - which is EXACTLY what American Protestantism is.
"Mob Rule" is exactly what you get when a bunch of good ole' boys get to decide what the Bible means - and let's not forget 99% of these people couldn't read ANY of the original languages the Scriptures were written in. Mob Rule is right.
"And Calvin was only heretical if you completely discount the sovereignty of God."
Go to the dictionary, learn what "heresey" means. It's not the same as "error". Sigh.
" Also the belief that the Catholic church was 'founded' by Jesus is a bit misleading, since it is tied to one verse that Catholics claim established the papacy through Peter."
SO FALSE. It's not the "Upon this rock" verse that proves the Church was founded by Jesus - it's the Gospel of ACTS that proves it!
Have you EVER even read the Church Fathers? That's the other thing about American Protestants - almost ZERO knowledge of the history of the Church.
Christianity is NOT divided. American Protestantism is divided. Christianity is not.
As Monty Python's Terry Jones used to say, the Life of Brian was heretical (opposing institutions of the Church, which are run by humans), but not blasphemous (opposing God or belief thereof).
For example, Martin Luther's Protestant Reformation was heretical, opposing the fundraising techniques of the Catholic Church through the sale of pardons. But Luther was not blasphemous -- he still believed in God and Christ.
Get it straight.
Remember what the city was like before the sewers??? Yuck.
But besides the aqueducts, wine, roads and sewers... What have the Romans ever done for us????
Serious, I think this argument would also be relevant in arguments about the "American Empire". Being colonized DOES have SOME benefits.
-------- -------- Support Wesley Clark for president!!!
Christianity is a massive fraud. Many cities cited in the biblical "history" of Christ have been proven by archaeological evidence not even to have existed during his alleged lifetime.
Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
Perhaps he is referring to the writings of Josepheus. Specifically, the writings that were forged in his name centuries after the fact.
STOP MISUSING APOSTROPHES, YOU MORONS!!!
Jon Stewart's joke from the Daily Show...
"So, this week's box office reciepts show that 'Dawn of the Dead' has unseated 'Passion of the Christ' as the #1 movie in America. Lesson? One person rising from the dead...good. Lots of people rising from the dead...better."
...was what I watched last night. It has Willem DeFoe (think Inspector from Boondock Saints) as Jesus and Harvey Keitel (think the Wolf from Pulp Fiction) as a good Judas.
So completely a better movie than the passion, and also, the other roles these actors have played just made it funny as well.
Want to see every step I took to start my company? http://www.rowdylabs.com/blogs/pitchtothegods
However (and I don't know if this came through in the film, as I haven't seen it yet), the Christian view is that the physical torture He went through was nothing compared to the spiritual torture -- rejection by and separation from God, the sufferings that we deserved... Crucifixion was a common punishment, and many people would have suffered similar physical torture, but if you believe it, what He went through was far worse even than that.
Anyway, concentration on those last few hours is nothing new -- Bach, for example, wrote two celebrated works (the St Matthew Passion and the St John Passion) covering just that period. But it still makes me uncomfortable. It'd be like filming War of the Worlds, say, and stopping just as the Journalist chooses to give his life to the Martians. Of course that last day is extremely important, but it makes me want to yell at the screen "Yes, but WHAT HAPPENED NEXT?"!
Ceterum censeo subscriptionem esse delendam.
===---===
Together, we will drive the rats from the tundra.
Talk about irony... The week before "The Passion..." was released, I went to the video store to buy "The Life of Brian". My intention was to put this whole issue in perspective before going to see "The Passion..."
I was glad that I did and I will also go and see it on the big screen if it shows in my area.
Jamey Kirby
As a christian I like the passion because it opens doors for evangelism and sharing my faith.
Please don't.
If people wanted you to share your faith, they'd ask about it.
Ahem!
The Bible as most people read it is translated. However, the source language is most certainly NOT dead. The majority of the Jewish bible (the "old" testament to many Christians) is in Hebrew, with a smattering of Aramaic. Hebrew is the spoken language of a large number of Israelis, and a huge number of Jews and Christians have reading knowledge of it. Aramaic is also the language of the Talmud, and multiple millions of people study the Talmud in the original Aramaic each week.
The Christian bible is a mix of Aramaic and Greek. Greek is the language of (duh) Greece, and Aramaic is as above.
In addition, Aramaic is spoken by various middle-eastern Christian sects, and I heard a story on NPR about Aramaic masses in Detroit.
So please, spare us any notions that the Bible is a construct in a dead language.
Whether or not one chooses to practice the lessons taught in the Bible is clearly a matter of personal conscience. Whether one accepts any given story or episode in it as literally true or as an allegory likewise is a personal issue. (I find very amusing those people who take English translations of the Bible "literally")
-David Barak
-Fully RFC 1925 Compliant-
Need Geek Rock? Try The Franchise!
You haven't got a womb! Where's the fetus going to gestate?! You going to keep it in a box?!
Hey, YOU cued it up, don't look at me like that.
you're all figments of my deranged imagination
I'm really curious on this one...
What, prey tell, is a Metric Assload?
1) Zaid was his adopted son (and one of his most devoted followers), not a slave girl.
2) They did not take over Medina, but were invited to move there to escape the persecution of the Kuraish aristocrats who were in control of Mecca. The two major Jewish tribes of Medina were particularly interested in Mohammed (PBUH) to help mediate their disagreements. Sure, he kicked a bunch of them out of Medina after they conspired against him, but that's a different story.
3) Anthony Quinn played the role of Hamzah "Lion of the Desert", Mohammed's uncle who converted to Islam. BTW, it not only doesn't portray Mohammed on the screen, but other important figures such as his best friend Abu Bakr, and his cousin Ali (to be the first and second Caliphs of Islam, respectively, after Mohammad's death). This belief also extends to all of the other Prophets, including Jesus and Moses. I don't believe this effect detracts at all from the film, on the contrary, I believe the film actually works better this way.
4) The movie's title is actually "The Message". It's not only on the cover of the video in English, but also the Arabic "Ar-risallah" written on a flag in the artwork. Sidepoint: this movie was filmed both in English and Arabic separately, with different actors for each language (both with an impressive cast billing for their respective audience). I wish they released both versions on the DVD instead of just English.
5) As far as I know, "The Message" was banned in various Arab countries, especially Saudi Arabia and Kuwait. I don't know if this still is the case. Despite its carefulness in respecting beliefs of the most conservative Muslims, it apparantly wasn't enough.
Modern skyscrapers have a metal skeleton and are not pyramid shaped. They are different from structures (the CN tower, Eiffle tower) in that all floors are inhabitable. Chicago has a lot of the the earliest, but the first ones are covered over with stone because people were used to seeing stone buildings. It wasn't till around the 1940s-50 or so (might be off by a one or two decades) that architects started letting the metal superstructure show, as in the Sears Tower (built around 1974).
The conflict created by this change was probaly the most interesting part of Ayn Rand's 'fountainhead'. Of course, I still don't know if it needed to be so *&$% long.
___
It's the end of my comment as I know it and I feel fine.
... Jesus was living in the time of the great philosophers : Socrates: 469 - 399 B.C.E., Plato: 427 - 347 B.C.E., Aristotle: 384 - 323/2 B.C.E. just to name a few.
But you are living also in that exciting times of Copernicus, Galileo and Newton. I am jealous, you lucky bastard: I would sell my soul for a chat with any of them...
I'd have to rate Meaning of Life first, Life of Brian second. Only because of the tiger scene. Also, the sex lesson scene was pretty good. And the scripture reading scene ("Oh Lord, please don't burn us"). I think "Every sperm is sacred" scene is pretty funny too("Couldn't you have your balls cut off?"). And now that I think about it, the death scene was funny too ("It's a Mr. Death, says he's hear about the reaping"). And how could you say the "Crimson Permanent Assurance" bit wasn't funny ("People aren't wearing enough hats")?
Ok, now that I think about it, I pretty much like every scene in every Python movie or show ever done. I AM A HUGE DORK.
This is all just my utterly pointless opinion. Except for the huge dork comment, that has been independently confirmed.
you're all figments of my deranged imagination
Another interesting fact ... is that Jesus was living in the time of the great philosophers : Socrates: 469 - 399 B.C.E., Plato: 427 - 347 B.C.E., Aristotle: 384 - 323/2 B.C.E. just to name a few. These philosophers are also quite well documented.
It's just like saying you're living in the same time as John Locke or Rene Descartes or Galileo Galilei !
Stating the obvious for those who can't get it : Jesus was living in the same period as great philosophers. Period. I am not insinuating that he talked with them or anything like that. But an ideology is in the air. And yes, we are living in the same area as Galileo and Einstein and others. Doesn't mean that we talked to them, but their ideas do inspire us. We use what they discovered and elaborated as a base for our understanding of nature and for the advancement of science. Hope this clarifies furthermore what I said.
DrkBr
I am rather disappointed by the reaction to this post. I understand that most of Slashdot readers are movie buffs besides being geeks and open source followers, and Monty Python has a strong following among them. However, considering the reaction this post has drawn, much of it disrespectful to the Christian faith, I wonder: What has this got to do with open source and the open source community (remember - OSDN)? That is the main reason I read Slashdot, and is what I understand to be the main purpose for Slashdot. I understand Micheal posted this with informative intent, but I think there are more appropriate websites for these kind of announcements.
Even though these words had come from his own mouth and his own hand had pointed, he had not consciously said or done these things. The man with him, quite out of character, also reacted strangely. He said, "That's wonderful! We want you to excavate, and we'll grant you your permits, put you up in a place to stay and even furnish your meals!"Ron knew that this was a supernatural event but he also knew that not all supernatural events originate from God (Revelation 16:14).
Very difficult to explain?
No... there are a number of simple, rational explanations - they just happen to contradict your (and his) foregone conclusions.
This space available.
"According to Occam, the idea of God is not established by evident experience or evident reasoning. All we know about God we know from revelation. The foundation of all theology, therefore, is faith. It should be noted that while others might apply the razor to eliminate the entire spiritual world, Ockham did not apply the principle of parsimony to the articles of faith.
In other words, William of Ockham himself said that the "principle of parsimony" (another term for Occam's Razor) cannot be applied to anything regarding religion. It is one of the clearest admissions ever made by a priest (he was a Franciscan monk) that religion is not based on rational thought.
Here is the real spoiler - He rises again from the dead! Bet you didn't see that coming!
I think your cynicism is preventing you from getting the message of the movie. You only harm yourself by assuming negative motives for people who have provided something positive and helpful for you in your spiritual walk.
2. Why? Why in the hell do we need hours of blood and gore.
Because that's the way it happened. The Messianic prophecy in Isaiah 52:14 reads:
Isaiah 53:5 says that "by his stripes ( Passion screen) we are healed." Just like in the movie - He was turned into a scourged piece of bloody meat almost not recognizable as human. The Romans didn't invent crucifixion, but they devised ways to inflict the maximum amount of pain.Why all the blood? Read Leviticus. Redemption is in the blood. Eternal life is in the blood. Read John 6. It is the blood of the New Covenant. We drink the Christ's blood (symbolically) when we observe the Lord's Supper. For me, the blood in The Passion is not gross. It's uplifting. I feel extreme gratitude and joy.
I don't think it sends any kind of message that would help us to live better lives and be better to each other.
The Palm Beach Post reported on March 18 that a man robbed a bank of $25,000 more than two years ago in Palm Beach Gardens, Florida. He surrendered because "he was stirred deeply after watching The Passion of the Christ and felt compelled to come clean." "He said, 'I saw The Passion, and that made my decision,'" said Paul Miller, a spokesman for the sheriff's office. "And he sort of urged [the detective] to see the movie too."
We are a visual generation. We watch TV and movies more than we read books. Putting the passion of the gospels into visual format makes it real to us. Do you think that reading about the 9/11 explosions of the World Trade Center would have evoked the same level of shock and awe as reading "there was an explosion" in a newspaper's black ink? Seeing the Passion forces us to come face to face with our sin and God's response of grace. The experience makes us sad that God had to send His Son to suffer and die because of us, the viewers. It prods us to repent, and when we repent, we live better lives. We regret how much we grieve Him by not loving Him with all our heart, soul, strength, and mind and not loving our neighbors as ourselves.
Which is really what the whole message of Jesus is about.
That's what the whole movie was about. From beginning to end, there was evil and brutality, but it was within the context of an act of love and sacrifice. The sacrifice was on behalf of sin just such as was committed in torturing this innocent Jew and Messiah. His sacrifice was the greatest act of love in all of history. And it was done on your behalf, and mine. The Lord Jesus Christ paid the enormous ransom for our sin that only He could pay, thereby saving us from the torment of hell, and that is what Mel Gibson's movie is all about.
I don't believe the world exists while I'm asleep.
The cake is a pie
This implies that since Java disallows multiple inheritance, it must be a tool of Satan.
The cake is a pie
It is correct that the miracle was that he rose on the third day.
I believe it is important to note that he could have had a death in old age from something instantanious and painless.
Instead, as atonement for *our* iniquities, he suffered ( really really suffered ) death for us.
That part shows the depth of his love for us, that he would die in the first place, at all, and that he would willing undergo such pain on our behalf.
emt 377 emt 4
Sighted person: Okay, stand right where you are.
Blind skeptic: Why?
SP: I'm going to take ten paces away from you.
BS: Okay.
SP: Now hold up one of your hands. Aha! You just raised your left hand.
BS: What about now?
SP: It's still your left hand.
BS: How did you know that?
SP: I can see.
Now have the sighted person get four items, each a different color, and hand them out. The items should have the same size, shape and texture. Have the sighted person identify each item to the person holding it. Have the sighted person occupied by a fifth volunteer so that the activites of the first four are hidden from sight. The first four will now trade with each other, whispering the color the sighted person attributed to the item he/she held. The sighted person is brought back into view and questioned about the items again. Repeat with a new group of blind volunteers. Assuming the blind are honest, this would provide proof. It's called "The Scientific Method."
On the other hand, the proofs I hear from theists include
Responses:
I know that I will hear noise about "strawman." Fair enough. Provide proof and we'll be done with it. If you can't provide proof, God is as likely to exist as the Giant Burnt Umber Crayon.
You are free to believe what you will. But unless you can demonstrate it to others, don't be indignant when others point and laugh at you when you proclaim it as truth. Don't want pointing and laughter, keep it to yourself or prove it.
- I don't need to go outside, my CRT tan'll do me just fine.
The Romans would look great carrying walkie-talkies, and they wouldn't seem so violent that way.
--
"Outlook not so good." That magic 8-ball knows everything! I'll ask about Exchange Server next.
...that Eric Idle seems to be a major asshole.
Here is a sad but fascinating account of the Rutles.
Hmmm, now you reminded me of some of the other scenes I loved in Meaning of Life. "Crimson Permanent Assurance" had me in stitches. The sex lesson was pretty good, but as an American, the British boy's school culture doesn't resonate as much with me. Every sperm is sacred, how could I have forgotten that? I know the song by heart!
:-)
I, too am a huge dork. I still like LoB better than MoL, but I had forgotten some of the funnier bits in Mol. Thanks for reminding me.
- None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
Naked Lunch has a great two pages or so in which a character disses all the world religions, one right after another. Jesus was a carnival huckster, Mohammand was a drunk, etc. Not that you should take it literally. You could interpret it as an illustration of stupid prejudices, or a send-up a la Monty Python, or maybe it was just intended to mess with your head.
Comment 700! I win the prize! Shiz yeah!
Very Naughty Boy!
; -- the corruption of government starts with its secrets. a truly free people keep no secrets. --
They should re-release Jesus Christ Superstar. And as I'm listening to the soundtrack right now, I can say that is the only reason for me: the sheer beauty of the production. I get chills every time I hear or see the movie. I'm not a believer myself (although I was raised a catholic) but this movie/musical just connects with me on all levels.
I'll go back to sobbing to the soundtrack now...
Trainee BOFH -- Just give me your username & password
thank you for defeating his stunningly weak argument.
Photos.
Don't necessarily believe what [the Bible] claims Jesus said. Rather, try to live your life as the man lived his...
..., with respect for those of different faiths ... and above all the knowledge that you don't have the right or authority to judge anyone"? And this man's life as the Bible describes it just happens to be exactly like this? That is quite convenient.
And how are we supposed to know how the man lived his life? Well, the only source appears to be the description of his life in... the Bible! So don't believe claims in the Bible about what he said, but do believe claims in the Bible about what he did. Sorry, but that's not terribly plausible.
Or do you mean that you have an independent idea of what is a good way to live your life, and that it involves living "with understanding and compassion for others
I think you're confused. I guess that what you really want is some way to accept those parts of the Bible that describe ideals you find it pleasant to believe, while simultaneously rejecting parts of the Bible that describe ideals you find it unpleasant to believe. (Many people find themselves in this position. Few recognize the inherent contradiction in it.) But since you already have independent views of what ideals you like and don't like, what do you need the Bible for? Either for some sort of authoritative confirmation of your opinions, or because of a sentimental attachment (I've been there and understand).
Now I've got that stupid bloody song stuck in my head. Thanks a lot.
Was funny back then, even funnier now with people all in a huff over a movie about an unfounded untrue but sometimes mildly entertaining fairy tale.
Love live Science, Logic and Reason!!!
My imaginary friend is better than yours!
First, thank you for an intelligent response. I find it interesting to dialogue with others about beliefs, but it tends to degenerate into flame wars (which is why it's often avoided).
Your 'sight test' example provides me with an analogy. I am aware of the fallacy of overextending analogies, and will do my best to avoid that.
I want to turn your argument against you. You say that if this experiment of colored objects is carried out, and the sighted person correctly identifies all objects, this will constitute proof that Sight exists, and that this individual has the power to use it. There are a few problems here that carry over to the argument over the existence of God. First, the blind in this instance have no prior experience with sight. Even if everything about seeing were to be described to them in great detail, it would be so far beyond their experience as to be incomprehensible. Those who witnessed this act would construe it as supernatural, literally meaning above or more than what is natural, because for them blindness is natural.
Second, put yourself in their mindset. There is one person who can do these wild things that nobody understands. He can try to explain how he does it using analogies, but it's still basically beyond your abilities to comprehend. When you hear about this by word of mouth, or even on the radio, will you believe it without witnessing it yourself? You may argue that the experiment was performed by a reputable institution, but I would argue that a reputable institution wouldn't even dream of allowing such an insane person through their doors, much less let him do his little tricks.
What I'm getting at is that being given incontrovertible proof is useless unless that proof can be understood by those who are listening. Even those willing to listen will invariably try to reason out how the feat was accomplished, and compared to the simple truth, these reasons will be incredibly convoluted and not only incomplete but incompletable.
Now for the dangerous part - I want to apply this principle to the argument for a theistic universe, the "fine-tuning" argument.
For the sake of space, I'm going to assume you know the fine-tuning argument, and point you to this paper if you don't.
In summary, fine-tuning theory states that the basic parameters of physics must be set to such specific values that it can only be accounted for by intelligent design. This is, in essence, the results of the seeing person's experiment - the probability that we (life) would be capable of existing at all (not to mention human consciousness) is so small as to be impossible - a much more distant prospect than the 1/24 chance that the colored objects are named correctly. For further discussion, I'll have to simply say "look at the paper," as Dr. Collins has done much more research and is a philosopher by profession rather than hobby.
Your breakdown of arguments by Christians and your following responses is absolutely valid. I will not even touch args. 1 and 4-6 because your accusations of circular reasoning and mistrust of feelings/senses are valid, and indeed shared by me. As for the other two, there are some things I'd like to respond with. I'll quote the args. I'm responding to, for context.
2. Yes, the NFL wide receiver argument. "I want to thank God for giving me the ability to make that touchdown..." Yet we never hear, "We were kicking the other team's ass when Jesus suddenly decided to make me fumble three times." Good people win the lottery. Bad people win the lottery. Good people survive car accidents. Bad people survive car accidents. What makes you, the God-fearing Christian, more special than the other God-fearing Christian who is now hamburger in their smashed up Toyota Celica?
I have heard the opposite - bad things happen to everyone just as good things do, and there are examples in the Bible (Job, notably) of people being angry at God for being cruel. Also, th
Your brain is not a computer.
...is the Way, the Truth, and the Life.
No one goes to the Father, but through Him.
There's plenty around, all you need do is not limit yourself to websites you feel comfortable with.
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
I have had an atheist literally come running up to me and yell, "There is no God!". I have often wondered why he brought Him up then...
By the way, I'm perfect-single-woman agnostic, but I'm looking to be refuted.
People who want to abolish firmly held beliefs with dubious benefitsseem pretty committed to the concept, and I'm not sure what good it would do.
Windows XP SP2 told me to install third-party software that prevents viruses and protects stability... I chose Ubuntu
All that I've ever run across have come away impressed, with three exceptions. You will find one news crew who gave up after digging a bathtub-sized hole in the ground at one site, one David Fasold who tried glory-hounding, and one Rene Noordbergen who objected and did a fair bit of political damage because Ron's ideas didn't quite match his own. Rene met a sticky end shortly afterwards, which is a bit scary.
Anyway, the sites that you can still get to are all there awaiting your critical eye.
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
not the horrible NBC remake shown in the US but the original UK version .... farce just doesn't seem to be an american thing
If those truly are the proofs that you have been exposed to, then I can see why you mock them. I've heard them myself, and I am constantly disappointed at the level of sloppy thinking being engaged in by those who profess faith.
I have a motto (read: vapid aphorism) for situations such as this: "Remember what it was like to -not- know." It is sheer lunacy for a someone to talk in purely spiritual terms to a person who doesn't have any spiritual interest or background. That's like the classic example of talking louder and slower to foreigners in the hope that, despite not understanding your words, they will magically glean meaning from your slow-shouting.
In the spirit of good logic, I provide the following:
1. I suspect God exists because the universe is not heat-dead. In absence of a diety, the universe is a closed system, and entropy in a closed system increases over time. If the entire universe is a closed system, there is no reason for any order to have existed in the first place.
2. Ghosts or Robots. Given the posits of free will, reliable physics, and the human brain being the root of all thought, emotion and decision making, only two of the three can be true. If the brain is the basis of all thought, etc, and the laws of physics are reliable, then all your behavior is deterministic, and you can't have free will. If you have free will, and the laws of physics are reliable, then your thoughts, etc, must come from a metaphysical source (not your brain). You're either a ghost or a robot.
Let's assume for the moment that we're robots: Getting upset about it is pointless. You don't really beleive anything at all. You just do as the chemicals in your brain resolve. There's no such thing as angry, happy, sad, or anything else. You can't do anything other than what you were determined from the beginning of time (however that happened), and you can never change that. Mocking it is just as much an exercise in futility as embracing it.
Let's assume we're ghosts: That begs the question of origin. Where did all these ghosts come from? What sort of thing would that origin have to be? Doesn't it stand to reason that it would have to be greater than all ghosts (souls/spirits/use your own term) combined? Is there a limit to the number of ghosts which can exist? If not, is the origin infinite? Is it unreasonable to assume that such an origin is also the origin of the universe itself, if all free-thinking life is imbued with these ghosts?
At any rate, I seem to have strayed somewhat from the topic at hand.
Monty Python's back in theatres, which is a Good Thing. While I wish they could make a new movie, I doubt that the same creative spirit is with them. Without Graham Chapman to act as John Cleese's writing partner, it would be up to the rest of the group to carry the writing. One of the biggest strengths of the original series was the constant shift in style: Cleese/Chapman's dry wit to Gilliam's hallucinogenic style to Palin/Jone's mini-stories, to Idle's wordplay, then repeat. Hopefully this re-release will get people interested enough to draw attention to other such films, and maybe Gilliam will finally be able to get The Defective Detective made.
Happiness is relative, Based upon the way we live.
You know, the really shitty ones where they took a shitty game, replaced the main character with Moses, added some Bible phrases, and foisted it upon the unsuspecting children of foolish religious parents.
Seriously. Way too many Christians will buy any crap that has Jesus on it. No idea if that applies to Passion, but I'm certain you're right and the actual quality of the film has little to do with it.
Sorry, but I take my faith a little too seriously to be tricked into buying any trinket that somehow claims to represent that faith.
The enemies of Democracy are
The reason people tend to mod funny things as Informative or Insightful these days is that Funny doesn't actually add to karma while Overrated does subtract from karma. In effect, someone with +10 Funny -5 Overrated has just lost five karma. Meh.
No I'm Brian, and so's my wife!
Liberals call everyone Nazis yet they are the closest thing to it.
....there's no evidence that he ever acknowledged any belief system other than his own....
Evidence?!?!?!?!?!? the 'evidence' is based on and was written by his followers who BELIEVED in what Jesus was teaching - so of course it would be his own belief system. Was any evidence of the ones who did not follow this belief entered into the Bible? Don't think so. Well, some info about others was entered - but only to negate them.
Just like - To save my child, I would gladly give my own life. Suicidal??? No, not really. Its called Altruism - look it up - it might help you out a whole bunch. Truth be told if the stakes were *really* - ETERNAL life for all of Mankind vs NOT. Suicide as you define it - looks damn good.
Seraphim_72 {Serpent of Fire}
Slashdot, where armchair scientists get shouted down and armchair theologians get modded up.
it is mostly that AFTER it's crucifixion, jesus body disapeared from its "grave"
Thereafter, you can find the trace of a prophet, or a holy man, going almost in a straight lone from israel to Japan, with the indians worshipping a man called Jeve, and at the end of the line a small Japanese village whose symbol is the cross, that uses to baptise their children and are considered "holy" and "preserving the body of a holy man"...and that cross+water thingy began BEFORE the bastard portugese came to Japan.
The conspiracy theoiry says that Jesus was given a drug that made him cataleptic, and that is the reason the roman pierced Jesus chest with his lance, to check he was REALLY dead...
usually, it takes a bit longer than what jesus managed to die on the cross... say 3 to 5 days...
Afterward, Jesus escaped and was never seen again in that particular region.
I have to seek that book again, it was quite interesting...
It takes 40+ muscles to frown, but only four to extend your arm and bitchslap the motherfucker
SOMETHING happened in that time frame that created a HUGE social, religious and political change.
Not really, just another eastern 'mystery cult' with a congregational style of worship, a eucharist and talk of an afterlife. Plenty of similar cults appearing around the same time such as mithraism. Just a fashion really.Of course the real 'social, religious and political' change came several centuries later with Constantine's 'conversion' to Christianity, and the introduction of an orthodoxy, chosing which of the gospels would be included in the New Testament.
As useful historical sources there is simply no way you can compare the accounts written by the Roman administration, which can be cross-referenced against other independent sources, historical events and archaeological evidence with the unverifiable, unaccountable Gospels.
As a Christian you don't require proof because you have faith. Historians need to be more rigorous than that though.
--
This sig is inoffensive.
We are the JPF suicide squad!
> The flood stories, present all across the world, could be (at least partly) actual oral traditions
> describing the end of the last ice age, the melting of the glaciers.-{SNIP}- But the
> omnipresence of these myths all across the world hints to an event covering the whole world - the
> ice age.
Or - to be more specific . . I've read of the breakup and melting of the Great Larentide Ice Shelf of Northern Canada which caused world-wide caustrophic rises in the sea level. Drowning the minor continent between Malaya and Borneo, while surging inland up the Persian Gulf.
(David Bowman, EVA near HUGE Monolithic Win-PC in orbit around Jupiter) "My God - its full of Malware!"
What happens is moderators can't find a "-1 I disagree with you" choice so they just pick one of the others available without thinking that maybe the reason there is no "-1 I disagree with you" is because the point of moderation isn't to mod down the comments that you disagree with - it is to get rid of pointless comments. The fact that the comment in question was on topic and spurred discussion makes it neither "troll" or "flamebait" as it has been labeled.
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...Welcome our new Giant Burnt Umber Overlord!
Strange things are afoot at the Circle-K.
Adam and Eve had the choice. Follow God or die. Remember, their pain, suffering and laboring didn't start until AFTER both took from the tree of good and evil. They had a choice. Now we suffer because of original sin.
Why should I be punished for what Adam or Eve did? Doesn't YHWH have a choice as well? This creator gave us the capability to suffer and should be blamed for committing that crime.
He died so you could live.
How does that work. I don't understand the mechanics behind that. Why did he have to die to accomplish this feat? Isn't it possible that his propaganda was made to deceive us? Maybe he was jealous of real gods like Zeus. Maybe his followers were just mad. Delusion is far more common than resurrection.
Do you think God punishes you because you cut yourself or bruise your arm or get into a car accident?
If this god who created me could have made me impervious and chose not to, then, yes, I will blame him. I blame the creator for making the influenza virus as well.
I hope you'll re-examine yours and accept Christ as your savior today.
I hope you will re-examine yours and accept Odin as your savior today.
Have faith! ...with God all things are possible. (Matthew 19:26)
I could just as easily have faith in something other than your Bible. You quote an old book that says some invisible creature has super powers. Do you realize how unconvincing your argument is?