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The same type of solution, which I use myself, exists for Windows Mobile. Googling, I see that a solution also exists for rooted Android phones and jailbroken iPhones.

> Hardly. Nobody's forcing you to run their binaries on your phone.

Verizon customers with a Droid Eris might beg to differ. http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=617203

There is a TMC driver for the FM radio module of many HTC devices. With it any TMC enabled navigation software can do that.
You can find the driver here

I second everything that Tubmleweed mentioned since it's dead-on accurate. The real debate is between Verizon (great coverage) versus Sprint (great 3G speed), with AT&T and T-Mobile being runners up.

Be aware that if you plan to "tether" (connect your phone to your computer to let your computer have wireless Internet access over your phone) then Sprint will allow you to do that for free as long as you have an existing unlimited data plan ($15 for base plans or included in new plans), but Verizon will try to charge you per-megabyte costing you hundreds of dollars a month once they find out. Also be aware that Sprint also includes "Any Mobile-to-Mobile" add-on in many of their plans calling any of your friends on any mobile network completely free.

The iPhone is no longer a booster to AT&T's service since there are other alternative phones out or about to come out this year to rival the iPhone. T-Mobile is a company that has changed names three times already always hiding from a bad rep but trying to make money on we-cut-our-own-throat prices.

Some HTC phones that are are out already for Sprint and Verizon networks (both CDMA based) and are also GSM six-band phones so you have international usage, or additionally if they are Hard-SPL flashed, Secure Unlocked, and flashed with a custom WU World Unlocked Radio they can use US mobile carrier SIM cards letting you use AT&T, T-Mobile, or other carriers with regular or pre-paid SIM cards. You simply let the phone choose the network automatically by availability or manually by switching between CDMA and GSM only modes on the phone.

This CDMA & GSM access makes these phones almost universal in usage since they are carrier independent. On top of this you can flash them with tons of custom ROMs giving you access to all versions of Microsoft Windows Mobile 6.1 and 6.5 already including tons of custom applications written for these operating systems. You can even build your own custom ROMs from "kitchens" customizing the settings, drivers, and software available on these phones. They sell for $325-350 on eBay and can be activated with either carrier without a contract. Be sure to only by the Sprint or Verizon (CDMA & GSM enabled) HTC Touch Pro 2 phones and not the AT&T or T-Mobile (GSM only) since you won't have access to both wireless network types and the GSM only phones have a slower processor.

HTC Touch Pro 2 (aka RhodiumW) - 2 x CDMA, 6 x GSM, 480x800, 528MHz, 288/512 MB
Sprint - HTC Touch Pro 2
Verizon - HTC Touch Pro 2

Websites that you must visit.

XDA-Developers.com
PPCGeeks

If you can wait a bit longer and wish to spend $750 or more then you can consider this phone.

HTC HD2 or wait for the predicted but not confirmed HTC HD2 Pro (with keyboard and CDMA later this year).

I second everything that Tubmleweed mentioned since it's dead-on accurate. The real debate is between Verizon (great coverage) versus Sprint (great 3G speed), with AT&T and T-Mobile being runners up.

Be aware that if you plan to "tether" (connect your phone to your computer to let your computer have wireless Internet access over your phone) then Sprint will allow you to do that for free as long as you have an existing unlimited data plan ($15 for base plans or included in new plans), but Verizon will try to charge you per-megabyte costing you hundreds of dollars a month once they find out. Also be aware that Sprint also includes "Any Mobile-to-Mobile" add-on in many of their plans calling any of your friends on any mobile network completely free.

The iPhone is no longer a booster to AT&T's service since there are other alternative phones out or about to come out this year to rival the iPhone. T-Mobile is a company that has changed names three times already always hiding from a bad rep but trying to make money on we-cut-our-own-throat prices.

Some HTC phones that are are out already for Sprint and Verizon networks (both CDMA based) and are also GSM six-band phones so you have international usage, or additionally if they are Hard-SPL flashed, Secure Unlocked, and flashed with a custom WU World Unlocked Radio they can use US mobile carrier SIM cards letting you use AT&T, T-Mobile, or other carriers with regular or pre-paid SIM cards. You simply let the phone choose the network automatically by availability or manually by switching between CDMA and GSM only modes on the phone.

This CDMA & GSM access makes these phones almost universal in usage since they are carrier independent. On top of this you can flash them with tons of custom ROMs giving you access to all versions of Microsoft Windows Mobile 6.1 and 6.5 already including tons of custom applications written for these operating systems. You can even build your own custom ROMs from "kitchens" customizing the settings, drivers, and software available on these phones. They sell for $325-350 on eBay and can be activated with either carrier without a contract. Be sure to only by the Sprint or Verizon (CDMA & GSM enabled) HTC Touch Pro 2 phones and not the AT&T or T-Mobile (GSM only) since you won't have access to both wireless network types and the GSM only phones have a slower processor.

HTC Touch Pro 2 (aka RhodiumW) - 2 x CDMA, 6 x GSM, 480x800, 528MHz, 288/512 MB
Sprint - HTC Touch Pro 2
Verizon - HTC Touch Pro 2

Websites that you must visit.

XDA-Developers.com
PPCGeeks

If you can wait a bit longer and wish to spend $750 or more then you can consider this phone.

HTC HD2 or wait for the predicted but not confirmed HTC HD2 Pro (with keyboard and CDMA later this year).

I second everything that Tubmleweed mentioned since it's dead-on accurate. The real debate is between Verizon (great coverage) versus Sprint (great 3G speed), with AT&T and T-Mobile being runners up.

Be aware that if you plan to "tether" (connect your phone to your computer to let your computer have wireless Internet access over your phone) then Sprint will allow you to do that for free as long as you have an existing unlimited data plan ($15 for base plans or included in new plans), but Verizon will try to charge you per-megabyte costing you hundreds of dollars a month once they find out. Also be aware that Sprint also includes "Any Mobile-to-Mobile" add-on in many of their plans calling any of your friends on any mobile network completely free.

The iPhone is no longer a booster to AT&T's service since there are other alternative phones out or about to come out this year to rival the iPhone. T-Mobile is a company that has changed names three times already always hiding from a bad rep but trying to make money on we-cut-our-own-throat prices.

Some HTC phones that are are out already for Sprint and Verizon networks (both CDMA based) and are also GSM six-band phones so you have international usage, or additionally if they are Hard-SPL flashed, Secure Unlocked, and flashed with a custom WU World Unlocked Radio they can use US mobile carrier SIM cards letting you use AT&T, T-Mobile, or other carriers with regular or pre-paid SIM cards. You simply let the phone choose the network automatically by availability or manually by switching between CDMA and GSM only modes on the phone.

This CDMA & GSM access makes these phones almost universal in usage since they are carrier independent. On top of this you can flash them with tons of custom ROMs giving you access to all versions of Microsoft Windows Mobile 6.1 and 6.5 already including tons of custom applications written for these operating systems. You can even build your own custom ROMs from "kitchens" customizing the settings, drivers, and software available on these phones. They sell for $325-350 on eBay and can be activated with either carrier without a contract. Be sure to only by the Sprint or Verizon (CDMA & GSM enabled) HTC Touch Pro 2 phones and not the AT&T or T-Mobile (GSM only) since you won't have access to both wireless network types and the GSM only phones have a slower processor.

HTC Touch Pro 2 (aka RhodiumW) - 2 x CDMA, 6 x GSM, 480x800, 528MHz, 288/512 MB
Sprint - HTC Touch Pro 2
Verizon - HTC Touch Pro 2

Websites that you must visit.

XDA-Developers.com
PPCGeeks

If you can wait a bit longer and wish to spend $750 or more then you can consider this phone.

HTC HD2 or wait for the predicted but not confirmed HTC HD2 Pro (with keyboard and CDMA later this year).

have you ever looked at XDA or considered you know what you're talking about? Hero is on 2.0 and mytouch runs the same stuff as g1, 100%. There are 2.05 android (flan) mytouch builds with no feature loss.

When will people stop being idiotic and realize that any phone that can run android = any rom of android can be flashed onto it = everyone can run cyanogenmod and not be lacking features. Do you know how often I read this fear of rooting, and fear of the "mystery" of the rooting of the phone? Constantly. Your post is not the first or the last.

you'd not lose bluetooth, the camera, calling, or anything else - it's pure ignorance if people think you'd lose that stuff. There are lots of issues with the first flash of rooting, but after that nothing. The community which supports android is the entire howardforums and xda crew. That insures that the phones have a lot of seriously talented people rooting and adding features.

have you ever looked at XDA or considered you know what you're talking about? Hero is on 2.0 and mytouch runs the same stuff as g1, 100%. There are 2.05 android (flan) mytouch builds with no feature loss.

When will people stop being idiotic and realize that any phone that can run android = any rom of android can be flashed onto it = everyone can run cyanogenmod and not be lacking features. Do you know how often I read this fear of rooting, and fear of the "mystery" of the rooting of the phone? Constantly. Your post is not the first or the last.

you'd not lose bluetooth, the camera, calling, or anything else - it's pure ignorance if people think you'd lose that stuff. There are lots of issues with the first flash of rooting, but after that nothing. The community which supports android is the entire howardforums and xda crew. That insures that the phones have a lot of seriously talented people rooting and adding features.

http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=538874

On XDA developers, there's a nice little *free* (as in beer) app for WM6.1 / WM6.5 that lets you share your 3G connection as Wifi.

Handy, and no cost.

It's actually page 4 with the relevant posts

I know it's after the fact, but new radio ROMs fix a lot of connectivity issues.

Check xda-developers for a newer radio rom for your PPC-6700 (HTC Apache) and PPC-6800 (HTC Titan)

I know it's after the fact, but new radio ROMs fix a lot of connectivity issues.

Check xda-developers for a newer radio rom for your PPC-6700 (HTC Apache) and PPC-6800 (HTC Titan)

Did you ever check update your phone? I've had three new radio versions on my device since I got it... A month ago. 3 minutes to install, and I get faster wireless connection, GPS lock, and better call quality in lower signal strength areas.

For my device
For your new device (HTC Raphael)

Did you ever check update your phone? I've had three new radio versions on my device since I got it... A month ago. 3 minutes to install, and I get faster wireless connection, GPS lock, and better call quality in lower signal strength areas.

For my device
For your new device (HTC Raphael)

I press the green "phone" button and get straight to the dialing interface. It loads instantly.

Strip out the bloat, and it runs really well. Three days battery life, no resets / powering off, and plenty of storage space.

WinMobile is a no-go

Tell that to these folks

My experience is that the phone vendor can really make windows mobile look bad. My first windows mobile phone was a t-mobile wing. The wing had a 200mhz OMAP processor and only 64MB of RAM. With the default T-mobile wing ROM (which was window mobile 6.0) you would have only 12MB of RAM free after booting up. With the default software the phone would constantly freeze and run out of RAM almost immediately. Then I found Xda-developers.com and learned how to make my own ROM. I made my own ROM for the wing. The difference was night and day. With the custom ROMs I built I had between 18-25MB of free RAM instead of 12MB and the phone went from requiring a reset every day to almost *never* needing one. My ROM had very few fixes for Windows mobile. It just lacked all of the useless crap that T-Mobile packed into their ROM.

http://games.slashdot.org/comments.pl?no_d2=1&threshold=-1&mode=thread&commentsort=0&op=Change&sid=1358995&cid=29321527&pid=29321527

Here's one scumbag's capture

http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=1334140&postcount=6

(removed by xda since they like the guy and what he does, I leave the link for the hell of it)

http://games.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=241557&cid=19649963

Saw this on pocketinformat.com and slashdot

http://www.pocketinformant.com/Forums/index.php?s=7c5317a05ae84814ac6bb4ab9a83e2ea&showtopic=11368&s t=0&p=61900&#entry619003

cracker iFalleni
aka Fallen
aka F/\LLEN
aka Syrkine, Vladimir
aka Vladimir Syrkine
russian living in australia, undergrad at university of sydney (honor roll according to univ.)

vsyr4253@it.usyd.edu.au

vsyr4253@mono.ug.cs.usyd.edu.au

As of 27-Jun-2007 (one day after this first posted) Vladimir Syrkine
has gone into hiding. Vladimir Syrkine had cracked and distributed 100s of software titles before being caught.

pirate mmtorrent
formerly pirate aBroad
formerly pirate bathrinath
formerly pirate sertoli
aka Anderson Barbosa de Oliveira
aka Anderson Barbosa
aka Anderson B Oliveira
aka Andros
aka androabo
aka mike terr
aka Barbol
aka tttsmith
aka bathrinath

As of July 2008 Anderson Barbosa de Oliveira is using the alias mmtorrent. He may also still be using the alias aBroad, which he has for more than a year, but only sporadically as that alias is mainly used by him as he tries to cover his tracks: all bathrinath warez uploads he's done the past year (1000s) were changed to the alias aBroad, though board software being what it is, he's not been successful in doing much covering up.

As of 27-Jul-2007 (one month after this first posted) Anderson Barbosa de Oliveira (androabo) uses bathrinath as his alias/aka. androabo has pirated more than 1000 software titles in the last year. He continues distributing warez to this very day, as he has every day for many years.

living in brazil

andersonbarbosa@cardiol.br

Know them? They have pirated your stuff. Google them to see what it is these two hoods do.

http://games.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=241557&cid=19649963
Reply to This

Re:Symantec closes in on Vladimir Syrkine, cracker (Score:1, Offtopic)
by negRo_slim (636783) on Saturday September 05, @03:50AM (#29321575) Homepage
I thought the Fallout3 immersion factor was quite hi due to it's sound and lighting.Reply to This
Parent

Re:Symantec closes in on Vladimir Syrkine, cracker (Score:0)

Mugshot

http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/9808/crackerifallenivladimir.jpg

The only crap, expensive software I have on my Diamond 2 is... Erm... Oh, wait, I downloaded a cooked community ROM with all of the rubbish removed and installed the apps I use. The WinMobile community is HUGE, with a large amount of free software for the platform.

XDA Developers is somewhere you want to look before considering purchasing any smartphone, especially one you want to toy around with.

Here's one scumbag's capture

http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=1334140&postcount=6

http://games.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=241557&cid=19649963

Saw this on pocketinformat.com and slashdot

http://www.pocketinformant.com/Forums/index.php?s= 7c5317a05ae84814ac6bb4ab9a83e2ea&showtopic=11368&s t=0&p=61900&#entry619003 [pocketinformant.com]

cracker iFalleni
aka Fallen
aka F/\LLEN
aka Syrkine, Vladimir
aka Vladimir Syrkine
russian living in australia, undergrad at university of sydney (honor roll according to univ.)

vsyr4253@it.usyd.edu.au

vsyr4253@mono.ug.cs.usyd.edu.au

As of 27-Jun-2007 (one day after this first posted) Vladimir Syrkine
has gone into hiding. Vladimir Syrkine had cracked and distributed 100s of software titles before being caught.

pirate mmtorrent
formerly pirate aBroad
formerly pirate bathrinath
formerly pirate sertoli
aka Anderson Barbosa de Oliveira
aka Anderson Barbosa
aka Anderson B Oliveira
aka Andros
aka androabo
aka mike terr
aka Barbol
aka tttsmith
aka bathrinath

As of July 2008 Anderson Barbosa de Oliveira is using the alias mmtorrent. He may also still be using the alias aBroad, which he has for more than a year, but only sporadically as that alias is mainly used by him as he tries to cover his tracks: all bathrinath warez uploads he's done the past year (1000s) were changed to the alias aBroad, though board software being what it is, he's not been successful in doing much covering up.

As of 27-Jul-2007 (one month after this first posted) Anderson Barbosa de Oliveira (androabo) uses bathrinath as his alias/aka. androabo has pirated more than 1000 software titles in the last year. He continues distributing warez to this very day, as he has every day for many years.

living in brazil

andersonbarbosa@cardiol.br

Know them? They have pirated your stuff. Google them to see what it is these two hoods do.

http://games.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=241557&cid=19649963

Here's one scumbag's capture

http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=1334140&postcount=6

http://games.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=241557&cid=19649963

Saw this on pocketinformat.com and slashdot

http://www.pocketinformant.com/Forums/index.php?s= 7c5317a05ae84814ac6bb4ab9a83e2ea&showtopic=11368&s t=0&p=61900&#entry619003 [pocketinformant.com]

cracker iFalleni
aka Fallen
aka F/\LLEN
aka Syrkine, Vladimir
aka Vladimir Syrkine
russian living in australia, undergrad at university of sydney (honor roll according to univ.)

vsyr4253@it.usyd.edu.au

vsyr4253@mono.ug.cs.usyd.edu.au

As of 27-Jun-2007 (one day after this first posted) Vladimir Syrkine
has gone into hiding. Vladimir Syrkine had cracked and distributed 100s of software titles before being caught.

pirate mmtorrent
formerly pirate aBroad
formerly pirate bathrinath
formerly pirate sertoli
aka Anderson Barbosa de Oliveira
aka Anderson Barbosa
aka Anderson B Oliveira
aka Andros
aka androabo
aka mike terr
aka Barbol
aka tttsmith
aka bathrinath

As of July 2008 Anderson Barbosa de Oliveira is using the alias mmtorrent. He may also still be using the alias aBroad, which he has for more than a year, but only sporadically as that alias is mainly used by him as he tries to cover his tracks: all bathrinath warez uploads he's done the past year (1000s) were changed to the alias aBroad, though board software being what it is, he's not been successful in doing much covering up.

As of 27-Jul-2007 (one month after this first posted) Anderson Barbosa de Oliveira (androabo) uses bathrinath as his alias/aka. androabo has pirated more than 1000 software titles in the last year. He continues distributing warez to this very day, as he has every day for many years.

living in brazil

andersonbarbosa@cardiol.br

Know them? They have pirated your stuff. Google them to see what it is these two hoods do.

http://games.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=241557&cid=19649963

I agree that adding flash would be the killer app, but I can say that the lack of VPN is doing a lot of damage too. It just isn't a business phone without VPN.

Also coming in Donut.

I've already got VPN with Cyanogen Mod 4.0.1 on my Dream. PPTP and L2TP support, works well with MS PPTP.

I'll tell you why I desperately want an Android phone, but won't buy one. It's because the carriers have locked-down what is supposed to be a "free, open source, and fully customizable mobile platform".

Buy a HTC Dream or Magic unlocked from here or here, root and install Cyanogen mod on it. You still have to use a telco that has a 2100 MHz HSDPA 3G network but that's your problem, you have a free, open source and fully customisable mobile platform. If you dont like doing the work yourself then you are stuck with whatever the carrier chooses and again that's your problem.

Google just checked in a bunch of code for the next Android release.

HTC Titan with GPS Chip

I've had the HTC Titan (Sprint Mogul PPC-6800) phone since it came out and it has a real GPSOne chip inside for aGPS satelite reception and not just cell tower ID triangulation for fake GPS. Before that I had the HTC Apache (Sprint PCC-6700) that required a separate GPS Receiver connected by Bluetooth and that also worked great since I only had to turn on the receiver when navigating.

Mount and Charger

I use the cheap Arkon CM929-S phone mount to keep my phone in-front of me connected to an air-vent while I drive and also the Motorola Mini-USB Car Charger for keeping my phone powered up during long trips.

TomTom Navigator 6 and 7

I've been using TomTom Navigator version 6 and now 7 installed on this phone running Microsoft Windows Mobile 6.0, 6.1, and soon 6.5. I've used my phone to navigate here in the US, Canada, and also in Europe without any problems at all, except for having to copying the 500MB maps to my storage card before I go, since I only had a 1 GB storage card. If I had a large capacity SDHC storage card then I could keep all the maps on it for the entire world.

PPCKitchen BuildOS and Radio ROM Firmware

I've been taking advantage of the phone customization software such as PPCKitchen BuildOS software for creating and loading customized and updated versions of Microsoft Windows Mobile operating system builds on to my phone that allowed me to go from 6.0, to 6.1, and now to 6.5. I've been updating the Radio ROM firmware on my phone with the instructions from XDA Developer Wiki page for HTC Titan to the latest releases to enable GPS functionality on this phone since the original release of the phone did not have the Radio ROM firmware to allow interfacing with the GPS chip until Sprint released it a year after the phone became available.

Little Inconveniences

Since Sprint uses the US only CDMA network cell phone standard I couldn't use my phone in Europe to make calls but I still retained the full GPS functionality. On top of this we use Google Maps software loaded on these phones for locating stores and saving them as contacts so we can then use TomTom to navigate to those contacts. Everything works great except when Google Maps decides to be lazy and not save the zip-code in the address in the contact or when the address line in the contact includes additional numbers such as apartment or suite then TomTom gets confused thinking those are street numbers since they match European address standards such as "16 Main Street Suite 2" to "16/2 Main Street". We then have to manually edit the contact to remove the apartment or suite number and add the zip code, it is a pain and we are waiting for TomTom to fix their software since this bug existed sine version 6 and now with 7.450.

Convenience Through Convergence

My wife also uses the same exact phone since we share the same phone plan and company and she loves the ability to be able to take the car and go anywhere she wants with her friends without worry

Sad they are not in the agreement since they too are a big player in the market, especially when we talk about the business market.

And in my mind the answer for the standard charger would be HTC's ExtUSB. How come? It is nifty USB charger, and their phones get charged by regular USB as well.
Plus a whole lot more like head set, adapters and so forth

ExtUSB specification

Seeing as I actually own a G1, I enjoy the ability to make my interface whatever the hell I want it to be. On the Market alone are several complete Home screen replacement apps, offering a plethora of features including iPhone-style dock bars, skinnability, and more. And once you break out of the one-click comfort zone and check out xda-developers, the opportunities abound. Custom roms, roms for other phones that are ported to the G1, and so much more.

So, the G1 ends up being a delightfully hackable, surprisingly polished platform. Considering Apple has a year's head start on them, the Android platform is doing superbly. Further considering that there are many, many phones on many carriers slated for release that run Android, I'm fairly confident in saying that the platform will be taken to a whole new level this time next year. Once carriers start learning that Android makes them money, they will throw their support behind it, and that'll be the game.

You can tether with a rooted G1 on T-Mobile.

Just make sure the kernel image you use has netfilter enabled.

Then, you'll also need a tethering application.

One caveat, Verizon doesn't seem to cripple the newer blackberries, although they are dog slow about approving OS updates.

Just curious, do blackberry phones have a similar dev/hacker following that HTC phones do? I'm thinking you can just flash whatever ROM you want to the phone and hack it all up if you want. Install the latest and greatest. I do this on my ATT Tilt and the haxors have managed to get the best parts of the newest TouchFlo phones to work on this older handset. I flashed away from the stock ATT rom and am never going back, so I could care less if ATT ever updates their crappy software.

If blackberry is anything at all like this then I may give it another look when I buy my next handset. I had this preconceived notion that blackberries were locked-down and apps had to be signed, and I will not buy any phone that lacks an active hacker community. Palm Pre may be an option, nokia is blech, iphone lacks keyboard and multitasking, android looks promising, and blackberry may be cool but I know little about it.

Or if you don't want to pay for wmwifirouter, ICS Conrol will take do the same, though it is a bit less user friendly.

http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=377047&page=1


I've noticed, that in ICS Control some third party wifi card drivers show up as "Cellular Line 2", though it doesn't affect functionality.

I'm using Android 1.1 on an HTC Kaiser (aka the Tilt, the Vario III depending on who you got it from). This is a Windows Mobile phone that Android is being ported to.

Not all the hardware on the phone is supported by the Linux kernel but that situation improves week by week. I spend most of my time in Android, only booting back to Windows when I need to load TomTom or upgrade my Linux kernel.

More information can be found here:

http://www.androidonhtc.com/

http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=3629317

I'd really like to upgrade my phone 'cos there're better ones on the market now. The trouble is I'm quite used to having both windows and linux on my phone and there's precious few phones out there that'll do that.

The best chance of an open software platform for a phone is for manufacturers to all jump on the Android bandwagon but allow 'unlocked' phones to be bought in stores as with traditional GSM phones.

"Unlocked" in that case would have to mean more than it does with traditional GSM phones. You can use an unlocked phone on any carrier, but that doesn't mean you can flash whatever firmware you want.

This probably isn't exactly what you want, but check out XDA-Developers. Limited to HTC phones, but firmware from carriers and the manufacturer. Sure you're mostly limited to Windows Mobile, but they've had luck getting Android and Debian working on some models.

Yes, but being able to reflash the same firmware doesn't actually gives you any other advantage other than backup. The whole thread is about whether the Android openness is relevant or not.

My point about flashing firmwares is that with Android, you can actually compile the dev branch and install it http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=462512 if you don't like it you can just revert the process.

Or you can make your own changes to the OS, compile and try it out http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=480582 if you don't like what you get you can revert it.

My point being: the ADP is open enough for "regular" hacking. You have the source, you can change stuff, test, revert, try again, and when you are happy you can send it to your friends.

Yes, but being able to reflash the same firmware doesn't actually gives you any other advantage other than backup. The whole thread is about whether the Android openness is relevant or not.

My point about flashing firmwares is that with Android, you can actually compile the dev branch and install it http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=462512 if you don't like it you can just revert the process.

Or you can make your own changes to the OS, compile and try it out http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=480582 if you don't like what you get you can revert it.

My point being: the ADP is open enough for "regular" hacking. You have the source, you can change stuff, test, revert, try again, and when you are happy you can send it to your friends.

Would you please be so kind to stop modding posts you disagree with as troll?

I mean, everything in my post is factually correct:

1. Backup and restore of Android phones: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=459830
2. Android source code is available: http://source.android.com/

I'll have Windows Mobile 6.5 on my T-Mobile MDA before Microsoft even releases it. http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=480099

Interestingly, the G1 android phone has built-in support for multitouch, as demonstrated here. However, there are some issues which make it more useful for pinch-gestures than other types. (See here for a description of why this is.)

Multitouch "proof of concept" pinch-zoom support has already been incorporated into unofficial Android firmware for the G1 (which incidentally is an AMAZING phone). If Apple's patent claims are busted-- and I'm still not clear on what types of multitouch it supposedly prohibits competitors from using-- it probably won't be long before we see multitouch show up on hardware that "officially" hadn't supported it previously.

just to clarify: i was one of the people who did reverse-engineering on HTC phones, including the ipaq hw6915, the sable, the blueangel, the himalaya and the universal. i own about nine smartphones, all of which bar one (the eten G500+) are HTC devices.

e.g. this:

http://wiki.xda-developers.com/index.php?pagename=Ipaq6915

the best way to think of all these smartphones is as a combined phone + laptop on one circuit board, where they're even connected together using USB.

so what these embedded OSes do is quite literally nothing other than send "AT" modem commands (and sometimes a bit more, using escape sequencing) to the on-board modem chipset.

so, unless you start hacking the firmware of the on-board modem, you will still remain within the FCC regulations.

however, some of the cheaper smartphones - in particular the ones based on the TI OMAP series - run a dual-core processor - a TI ARM core plus a TI DSP core - typically a 200mhz one (because lower than 200mhz is utterly useless for smartphone features. but hey, it's cheap).

these phones _are_ a serious risk, because the two CPUs share memory (!) and you can reprogram the registers etc. etc. you can look up exactly how to do it.

anyway, the point is: the radio modem firmware is downloaded _directly_ to the processor, where all of the signal baseband processing is done. things like the GSM signal-strength of the radio can be manipulated DIRECTLY by changing a memory location, using the ARM cpu.

or worse.

clearly, this is bad.

however, the design of the more expensive HTC-designed phones - typically involves a _much_ better setup - with "standard" 400 to 600mhz ARM cpus and a completely isolated "standard" chipset.

the price of the G1 is indicative that it is one of these better setups.

if you want more info, here's where you're going to get it - from the xda-developers and the #htc-linux irc channel on freenode.net. DO NOT waste the developers time on #htc-linux - they are NOT paid to work on the reverse-engineering of HTC phones, but have stuck diligently to the task for over four years, nearly five now, to bring _proper_ community-driven support for linux to these hand-held smartphones.

forum on G1 dev:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=448

page listing android devices:
http://wiki.xda-developers.com/index.php?pagename=Android_devices

as people do reverse-engineering and/or find out other information (such as take the backs off and photograph the chipsets) you'll find the info listed, there.

the best way to think of all these smartphones is as a combined phone + laptop on one circuit board, where they're even connected together using USB.

so what these embedded OSes do is quite literally nothing other than send "AT" modem commands (and sometimes a bit more, using escape sequencing) to the on-board modem chipset.

so, unless you start hacking the firmware of the on-board modem, you will still remain within the FCC regulations.

however, some of the cheaper smartphones - in particular the ones based on the TI OMAP series - run a dual-core processor - a TI ARM core plus a TI DSP core - typically a 200mhz one (because lower than 200mhz is utterly useless for smartphone features. but hey, it's cheap).

these phones _are_ a serious risk, because the two CPUs share memory (!) and you can reprogram the registers etc. etc. you can look up exactly how to do it.

anyway, the point is: the radio modem firmware is downloaded _directly_ to the processor, where all of the signal baseband processing is done. things like the GSM signal-strength of the radio can be manipulated DIRECTLY by changing a memory location, using the ARM cpu.

or worse.

clearly, this is bad.

however, the design of the more expensive HTC-designed phones - typically involves a _much_ better setup - with "standard" 400 to 600mhz ARM cpus and a completely isolated "standard" chipset.

the price of the G1 is indicative that it is one of these better setups.

if you want more info, here's where you're going to get it - from the xda-developers and the #htc-linux irc channel on freenode.net. DO NOT waste the developers time on #htc-linux - they are NOT paid to work on the reverse-engineering of HTC phones, but have stuck diligently to the task for over four years, nearly five now, to bring _proper_ community-driven support for linux to these hand-held smartphones.

forum on G1 dev:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=448

page listing android devices:
http://wiki.xda-developers.com/index.php?pagename=Android_devices

as people do reverse-engineering and/or find out other information (such as take the backs off and photograph the chipsets) you'll find the info listed, there.

I say it and it is so.

HTC bootloader was dumped just the other day. Imagine that. I expect interesting news in the near future.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=454665

A port is coming along for the HTC Diamond (one of the new and seriously cool handsets that would be better off without windows mobile):

http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=402002
http://wiki.xda-developers.com/index.php?pagename=RaphaelLinux

A port is coming along for the HTC Diamond (one of the new and seriously cool handsets that would be better off without windows mobile):

http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=402002
http://wiki.xda-developers.com/index.php?pagename=RaphaelLinux

but with utilities and images already available to replace the flash image with your own signed code, it looks like the manufacturer-hacker arms race is on."

For what it may be worth, there's a page set up with succinct instructions for flashing the modded RC-30 that preserves root.

Also, for those who have RC19 or RC29 and simply want to delay/avoid an over-the-air (OTA) update, there are also instructions for a simple change that will keep the RC30 from installing in the first place. This will not address the root bug however, so typing CR-reboot-CR will for example still restart your phone.

If you don't at least take measures to prevent the OTA update, the firmware may be updated automatically, even if you manually reject it.

W

Where is the news? Android is also available on the commercially available phones running Windows Mobile, eg HTC Kaiser.

I'll admit to being biased, but...

People go on and on about how Android is Linux based and Open Source, but it's not.

And your proof of this assertion is...what, exactly?

As counter, I offer links to the Git repository and the kernel and other GPL/LGPL bits. That's already more than any other major platform has done, and they aren't through yet.

The Linux backend is all but invisible

What? You want it to pop up with a bash prompt?

and likely just as locked down as the Linux installs on other embedded devices

And your proof of this assertion is...what, exactly?

The decision on whether a device is firmware-flashable is made by the device manufacturer. The T-Mobile G1, the first Android device, is being made by HTC, which has a history of making firmware-flashable devices.

You are not going to be able to easily replace it, assuming you can even get close enough to the system to have a hope of doing so. Tivo, all over again.

And your proof of this assertion is...what, exactly?

Google is doing everything in the Java environment precisely to put you in a sandbox they (and the cell networks) can control.

Popularity of Java in mobile device development, of course, would have nothing to do with it, since that wouldn't fit your conspiracy theory. Neither would security (no direct memory access), for that matter.

Sure the developer agreement is not quite as onerous as the one Apple uses, but it's certainly just as controlling when necessary.

And your proof of this assertion is...what, exactly?

I mean, seriously. If you have problems with their developer agreement, cite passages and specific issues.

And, sadly, so long as the cell carriers are seen as the customers of these phones

Carriers will, undoubtedly, be the "customers" of many Android devices. At the same time, I've received emails from manufacturers whose devices will not be sold through carriers. If your carrier allows standards-compliant devices (e.g., GSM), you should have your choice, albeit not on day one, as Android devices make it through various manufacturing and development processes.

How is any of that different from something like the Kaiser (AT&T Tilt) or a half dozen others?

Screen rotation based on sliding out screen? check.
Onscreen keyboard if you don't want to slide out the keyboard? check.
copy/paste? check.
Google maps with built in GPS? check.
Approval process for apps? none.
Remove SIM Lock and operator lock for free? check.
Tons of apps already available (many for free)? check.
Physical keyboard? check.
3G? check.
Flash your own boot screen/OS/image? check.
Write apps in .net/compact framework or c++? check.

Available two years ago? check.

I know some people don't like using anything Microsoft and some just have issues with Windows Mobile, but all the functionality you described has been in phones for years...

How is any of that different from something like the Kaiser (AT&T Tilt) or a half dozen others?

Screen rotation based on sliding out screen? check.
Onscreen keyboard if you don't want to slide out the keyboard? check.
copy/paste? check.
Google maps with built in GPS? check.
Approval process for apps? none.
Remove SIM Lock and operator lock for free? check.
Tons of apps already available (many for free)? check.
Physical keyboard? check.
3G? check.
Flash your own boot screen/OS/image? check.
Write apps in .net/compact framework or c++? check.

Available two years ago? check.

I know some people don't like using anything Microsoft and some just have issues with Windows Mobile, but all the functionality you described has been in phones for years...

I definitely agree with you there. people who write apps and use SSH clients aren't going to want a physical keyboard on their phone? This is retarded. Why did they have to copy the fucking iphone and do it so shittily? just make the thing rectangular with a larger screen and slap a hardware keyboard on there somehow and this may have been a decent phone. See http://wiki.xda-developers.com/index.php?pagename=HTC_Hermes