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A Drive With The Works: DVD-[R,RW] And CD-[R,RW]
grub writes: "The MPAA must be saying "Ho Lee Fook."
Pioneer had introduced a
rewritable DVD drive. The drive reads and writes in four formats: DVD-R, CD-R, DVD-RW and CD-RW, has up to 4.7GB capacity per DVD side and records on DVD-R at twice the normal speed."
With 60GB drives now at reasonable prices, and drives three times that size coming out on the high end, 4.7GB no longer sounds like the mountain of bits it once did. Still, this is a wild combination: hopefully the world will soon agree on some nice DVD-RAM standards worth living with.
Just submit it again, who know, CmdrTaco might post it tomorrow under a different caption, only to remove it an hour later.
You might have your 15 minutes of fame then.
<grub> Reading
Damn, I'd hate to see a full length movie at such a low quality it only took up 8.5MB.
/w two layers... Wether it's retail dvds or dvd-r's.. It's also my understanding that the 8.5GigaByte disc actually refers to both sides as one.
Anyways, It is my understanding that the whole thing about DVD's is that they are all burned
So, assuming this... you could actually fit a full length dvd on one dvd-r...
Beau Bellamy
uhm... uh huh... right..
Of course the MPAA should be getting frightened about DIVX and the new DVD to CD-R Video devices being launched.
They're not. Of course they're going to try and stop it, but the whole RIAA vs. MP3 debacle has already proven that Joe Sixpack cares more about having a store-bought perfect copy than wasting his time pirating discs just to see a stinking movie.
Don't forget that most people bought DVD players for the higher quality in the first place and aren't going to give that up for a couple of free flicks. As far as I can tell, the quality of that DIVX is worse than VHS.
According to this PC Extremist article, the DVD consortium decided to have the DVD-R Book version 2.0 have 2 different laser wave lengths. The consumer DVD-R laser wavelength is 650nm, while the "professional/authoring" one is 635nm. The last DVD-R Book version 1.9 only had 635nm. The DVD consortium's excuse was that it would be cheaper to make the 650nm laser unit. While this is true that it's cheaper, it also adds to the confusion among people who need to get a DVD-R drive. What's even more messed up about this is that, a DVD-R with a 635nm laser can only use 635nm DVD-R media, while the 650nm one can only use 650nm.
I really think that current standalone DVD players will not be able to read DVDs burned from a "consumer" DVD-R drive. Either that, or major difficulties. The only drive that currently burns proper 635nm DVD-Rs that I know of, is the Pioneer DVR-S201. So if you want to burn DVDs so you can watch it on your standalone, go for the expensive 635nm DVD-R drive (what a rip off).
"The question of whether a computer can think is no more interesting than that of whether a submarine can swim" -EWD
Hrmmmmm... Welp, lets see now... Can anyone tell me what the price on the average CD-R drive was, less than 5 years ago? Better yet, 10?
These $750-$1250 devices were (comparatively) slow, the media was costing in the range of approximately 10-20 times what they cost currently... And public interest in said drives was fleeting, and short of the occasional ubernerd, most folks were stating that CD-R was a fad that was economically unviable... And this was as little as 5 years ago...
Additionally, the drives were SCSI only, which boosted the price as well (Lets drag Adaptec into court for their unfair monopolistic practices while we're at it! Yeah!)... AFAIK, the current DVD-RAM's are also SCSI devices only...
ATAPI, on the other hand, reduces the pricing significantly, due to the overall compatability of the IDE bus (which until UDMA 33, was abhorantly slow, but with UDMA/ATA 66 and ATA 100 standards, expect that to help as well...)
Understand too, that the lower the cost of the hardware and media, the faster the public will embrace said hardware... These two things are interdependant... How many here who remember the old pricings, would have plunked down $1,000 for a 2x CD-R, and the $10 per disk the media was running for? Anyone?
Just because you can mod me down, doesn't mean you're right. Shoes for industry!
RTFA.
and offers up to 4.7GB of storage capacity per DVD side.
And moderators, RTFP.
well it can play unencrypted DVDs. its an option in the "hidden menu". APEX was thinking a head. and i am lucky i scored one before MPAA found out.
ever try to play an ecrypted DVD with CSS turn off?
-rev
I swear. You mention dvd burning and everyone's minds immediately jumps to copyright infringement. Most people are missing the fact that we are getting close to REPLACING TAPE DRIVES. Finally. A form of backup that has, though half the size, far more speed than your normal tape drives. Now, i am not saying we are ready to get rid of those old pieces of crap yet, but we are close. I am not sure, but i imagine that the 4.7 gb is only on the dual-sided disks, and i imagine too that you have to flip the disc to write to both sides. So it is still just a 2.xx gb automated backup solution, but thats a heluva lot better than 650 mb!! Now stepping away from the business world and into the desktop realm, think about the size of your average hard drive. Personally i use 14.2 gb out of my 40.6 gb of hard drive space. Most of that though is game fluff that needs to be reinstalled anyways everytime i reformat my windows partition. (i couldve shortened my sentence by saying i reinstall my games every weekend... cron job anyone?). Anyways, the problem with ghosting is that it takes a LOT of space to get, not only the default windoze install, but also all the extra programs and tweaking that comes along with it everytime i reinstall. But now i dont have to store that img on my hard disk, i can store it on a dvd, and still have room to throw in some of the fluff like saved games, mp3's, etc. Basically all i am saying is to stop trying to burn dvd's for a few years. If you cant afford the $20 per dvd, then how did you afford the player???
And what is wrong with ISO-9960 being that standard. Why is it that every time the lowlevel way bits are encoded into an analog media we think we have to replace all our higher level protocols?
what's to stop me from using that data to "author" a new movie ostensibly created by me?
Ethics? Illegality?
I have discovered a truly marvelous sig, unfortunately the sig limit is too small to contain i
Good thing Blockbuster rents for 5 days, eh?
They key here is to make sure that someone comes up with a car audio player that plays mp3 in this format.... I was starting to get concerned with ONLY having 200 songs available per disk!
Like most things, you get what you pay for. If you want a quality image, don't skimp on a no-name decoder card.
-
No, DVD Players will not play DVD-R discs. Blame all the DVD companies for not being able to decide on standards.
Fear my low SlashID! (bidding starts at $500)
Do not anger the worm.
Sorry - meant 2010 - but yes I have 2001 but I think it was R1.
Matt Thompson - Actuality - Insert product here.
C'mon guys, this is the VCR replacement we've all been looking for. The only reason VCRs are still selling is because they are recordable. My mom isn't even considering a DVD right now, she wants a VCR for christmas. Why? Most of the movies she wants to see are on TV but usually at some late time. She just wants to record them and watch them at her convenience (I'd get her a TiVO but I haven't seen a PAL version yet)
The ability to record and re-record TV channels on a disc is the function most consumers have been looking for. They want to do more than just watch movies, they want to record Sex in the City, The Sopranos and watch them when they want to.
I can't wait till I can toss my VCR and free up an extra EuroSCART port.
Jay
-- polish ccs mirror
CD-Rs used to cost £5 a piece, so it was barely worth copying, say, singles onto them. Now I buy them for 20p each -- surely the same thing is going to happen to DVD-R eventually? Then the MPAA/whoever is going to be really upset. Especially if you can do a bit by bit copy of a film, including the encryption, onto another DVD..
-
Meep meep
>The MPAA must be saying "Ho Lee Fook." ;)
Actually, in London there is a damn fine Chinese restaurant named 'Lee Ho Fook'
I highly recommend it.
--Do you even know what it's for?--
how much is this beast gonna cost? i'd love to get it. I'm not looking at it as a revolutionary concept, but i still think it's pretty beast. it's a good combination, especially for people like me who are completely out of bays.
-"Hey, Baby. It's not a rash, it's textured love."
DVD-RW: the "floppy diskette" of Generation Z. Har har har.
I am not a lawyer.
The industry has yet to agree on a rewriteable DVD standard (there are four contenders), so any current "rewritable" DVD burner's discs will play in few, if any, DVD drives.
DVD-R is currently the only media format that is compatible with most DVD players and DVD-ROM drives across the board.
There's 10 types of people in this world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
Ethics? Illegality?
Fair use? Archival copies?
ABSURDITY, n.: A statement or belief manifestly inconsistent with one's own opinion.
Okay, I freely admit that I am woefully ignorant of the process of creating DVD's
Me too actually ;)
Yeah, i think you are cool here. I think what the parent of all of this was saying was that you can't do a DVD->DVD copy (i.e., like hooking two VCR's up or something, or a bit by bit copy). You can go DVD->unencrypted->DVDR though, but that requires that extra step, which most consumers won't be able to figure out or bother with.
-Dave
Wrong. I have an AD-600A Apex, and YES there is a quite useless option to turn off CSS Decryption, but it has no effect on unencrypted DVD (I have a couple of those). Unencrypted DVDs also had the odd effect of not turning on Macrovision on my old ATI card's DVD playback. CSS encryption is simply an option for DVD encoded video. ALL DVD players will detect if the encryption is there or not and play it back properly.
All those goodies, and not a SCSI interface? What's Pioneer been smoking? Can ATAPI keep it rolling at 2xDVD write speed?
Cool drive, though
Black holes are where God divided by zero
Is there any advantage using DVD-R, or DVD-RW's over DVD-RAM disks.
From what I understand DVD-RAM disks have the same capacity. New versions store about 9.6GB. They seem cheaper, and are already availible.
One thing I like about DVD-RAM disks is there relatively cheap, $25 for 5.2GB of storage, and they can be mounted and used like ordinary hard disks. No special software is required to burn the disk, and it behaves like any other floppy, zip disk or hard drive. I haven't heard that the DVD-R or DVD-RW would have this ability which I think is a major disadvantage when combined with the high drive prices. Are any RVD-R or DVD-RW drives available yet?
I have a DVD-RAM on my current machine and it makes a great and cheap back up system. I just wish home DVD players would be able to take the caddies for the 2-sided DVD-RAM disks. I think that most can read the one sided DVD-RAM disks without the caddy.
I'd like to hear more about the pros and cons for each system.
Thanks
Why do I get the feeling that this won't be available for long? After a short time, the MPAA, RIAA, and the software publishers are going to demand that it will not write data if it is copyrighted.
If we want to make legitimate backups of our DVD's, our CD's and our software, then we need to act fast.
Now THAT is worth saying "Ho Lee Fook". Consumer-level my ass. At least it will make the older models go down in price . . .
funny munging
That's because prior to now, there was no real demand for DVD-Rs. As demand scales up, suppliers will sell more of the discs and will start to undercut each other to gain greater market share. As more of these drives hit the market, prices will drop on the media...
Of course the MPAA should be getting frightened about DIVX and the new DVD to CD-R Video devices being launched.
Matt Thompson - Actuality - Insert product here.
"When I bought my first CD-writer I found that my recordings of CD audio weren't compatible with an older cd player."
CD-RW tends to work a hell of a lot better.
-Ciaran
Pal Tivos are now availiable in the UK & most of europe ;-p im in the UK & am getting one er - in about 2 hours ;-p
Is the word in question. Standardized DVD-RW is the holy grail that'll make me ditch VHS. Until that happens though it remains a far too risky option.
-- Hob - Java Spectrum Emulator
That's easy enough to deal with. You write unencrypted content. Problem solved.
I'm more interested in seeing the price tag on this thing, though. Its predecessor was selling around $5,000, last I checked. The new combo drive should cause the price on the older one to drop, hopefully within the range of mere mortals, as happened with CD-R.... then you'll finally see the price of blank DVD-R media drop.
---
How am I supposed to fit a pithy, relevant quote into 120 characters?
I have 2001 on DVD (R1). It was the 2nd DVD I bought and currently is the most disappointing one in my collection.
The audio is decent but the video was a real let down.
Conan the Barbarian (my first buy) had the worst video/audio but the new Collectors Edition that came out is awsome.
It pains me to see that people actually think combining technologies into one big 'ol device is a new idea. Remember the ENIAC, it's now a wrist watch, get over it. "Oh it's such a great thing, now we can rewrite DVD's and CD's on the same device" uh huh, yippie fuckin skippy. What great thing have they done here, you could have purchased the equipment to do this awhile ago, but I fear for those of you who were "slot challenged" this was not an option. Apparently there exist a lot of slot challenged people out there, and them I say, buy a friggin bigger box. I'm not attacking you personally, I just don't see why this article is such a big deal, or for that matter why its an article at all.
Fair use? Archival copies?
How about: Nothing?
maybe - I'm sat here thinking - 5Gb hmm not enough really
.oO0Oo.
I've got 4Gb of mp3's I recorded myself from my old records - great for listening to but a bugger to store - and I'm only about 1/4 of the way through them.
Plus a few Gig of pron.
I could really do with one of these suckers though.
There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
Actually, we were planning on using those laser satelites on you the next time we catch you tailgating on 17. Unless it's ME you are tailgating, in which case I just use those SSRMs I had installed in the back of my pickup for just such an occasion. ;-)
>>>>CSG_SurferDude
LongTail SSH Brute Force analysis tool is here!
I wouldn't expect this drive to become your only CD/DVD drive.
The link above states that the read speed is only 4x. WTF?!
And what's up with the IDE interface? Geez!!!
Exactly my point... SCSI *is* a more expensive option (with higher benefits, true bus mastering, less resource hogging, etc)... The consumer version that Panasonic unveiled was ATAPI, and hence, less expensive...
As for CD-R drives, they started out as SCSI only devices... I have one sitting and collecting dust for want of a Centronics DB-50 to Mini-DB-50 cable, an old Pinnacle RCD 5020i POS... Dated 1994...
Hmmmm, as I recall, most CD-ROM drives were in SCSI only form as well, only because they started use primarily in Mac/Amiga applications... And additionally, they were prohibitively expensive as well...
Just because you can mod me down, doesn't mean you're right. Shoes for industry!
Oops, but that would be illegal, huh?
I can explanate how to administrate your network. You must configurate and segmentate it, so it can computate.
Nailer says:
You can't burn an exact copy of a DVD to a DVDR, and your inexact copy won't play in most peoples DVD drives.
And you say:
I believe you can choose to author an unencrypted regionless DVD (which is what we were doing) and players will play them fine.
Notice I bolded author. I am sure you can author a DVD and copy and such with DVDR. What Nailer is talking about is copying a region encoded DVD. It won't work because the disk key area is pre-zeroed on the DVDR.
Probably the most useful implementation of these combination drives will be for laptops. Portable users can just slap one of these in their machines instead of putting a DVD drive in the machine and carrying and external/extra CD-RW drive.
Is Pioneer planning on making a laptop version of this drive?
"I am a man, and men are
animals who tell stories."
"The meek shall inherit the earth, the rest of us shall go to the stars." Isaac Asimov
Not only does that imply a high quality product, it shows that a major corporation does not fear legal repurcussions (repercussions) by groups such as the MPAA.
You have to remember, that Pioneer has mad a deal with the MPAA over fair use of DVD recordable media. It will not play in your dvd drive since the key is pre-written as all zero's. All the big corporations don't fear each other, they are all in bed together.
According to this PCWORLD article, "It is likely to cost less than $2000, according to a Pioneer spokesperson. The drive will replace Pioneer's current DVD-R drive in the company's lineup, which costs around $5000."
Are you storing your movies in .bmp format?
I'm guessing too much, and for a long time too. It is going to take a while before there will be competition on this market.
DVD-ROM media is at $25, why should i pay it?
CD-R used to be $40, it'll come down pretty fast.
What can i do now with a $25, 4GB DVD-ROM that i cannot do with $3 worth of CD-ROMs (6 CD-ROMs)
Burn 4 gigabytes of data on one disk? Seriously, I counted having 97 CDs on my desk, I would love to have only 20 DVDs instead.
--
Yes, but I have a feeling we will see the "playstation effect." If you don't have a mod chip in your PS1, it will not allow you to play burned disks. Right now, I don't think I know anyone who doesn't have a mod chip in their playstation. I know that it will be more difficult with DVD players because of the plethora of different types/brands, but...
Eric
Make it idiot-proof and someone will build a better idiot.
Man! 4.8 GB of MP3's on one disk! :)
Gorkman
Title says it all really: how easy would it be?
Panasonic has a new 'DVD Recorder' too. It's DVD-RAM (differences? It's 4.7 gigs too). http://www.panasonic.com/consumer_electronics/dvd/ dvd_recorder.htm
What if the Hokey-Pokey really is what it's all about?
That's an older model that came out over a year ago (replacing the DVR-S101 which was $17,000 SRP). I have not seen a price for this new DVD-R/RW yet.
I've built up so much character I have an alter-ego
"My Man Godfrey" is an unencrypted disk.
Allright, I'm sorry, I'll just grab my coat and leave...
---
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"Multiple exclamation marks are a sure sign of a sick mind." (Terry Pratchett)
Of course, I'm guessing that the price of blank DVD-RWs could go much lower than that of DAT ever could, since DAT requires precision moving parts that DVD-RW doesn't.
"The plural of anecdote is not data" -- Bruce Schneier
This
A few of these
AMD 760 MP
Two of these
A fridge with a padlock
Oh yeah, and huge pectoral muscles!
Unless you count the way I drive in my Highway 17 commute, in which case anthracite is just fine.
--
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
psst. It was a joke. Should have probably qualified it I guess...
I notice the press release didn't mention expected price. Pioneer's current DVD-R drive is $5400. Hardly affordable.
http://www.pioneerusa.com/dvdrmedia.html#dvdrec
How many CD burners do you know that operate at 18x write speed on ATAPI? As I understand it (I could be wrong, I know) a CD burner - and by extension a DVD burner - needs its data to come at a steady rate. Get too far behind with data, and you've toasted the CD/DVD.
I don't think that 2770 KB/s is more than ATAPI can handle - I'm questioning that it can sustain that rate for long enough to fill a 4.6 GB DVD-ROM (it's roughly 28 minutes, if my calculations are correct).
Let's not forget that the situation is different if the data stream comes from an ATAPI device too. Last time I checked, ATAPI requires that the data pass the system bus from device to device, in reality doubling the required bandwidth for operation. It has to to with the one-command-per-ATAPI-bus restriction, if memory serves me (anyone got the full story on this?). SCSI does not suffer the same constraint, and you should be able to stream data directly from the disk to the burner with no intervention from the system bus.
Black holes are where God divided by zero
...thus justifying the MPAA's concerns about DeCSS.
Can we have some foresight in aisle five, please?
--BS
Sounds like DV format or MJPEG. I'd say at a 5-1 compression ratio too. DV is the format most of the high end consumer digital video recorders use. Not quite broadcast quality, but good enough nobody will notice. A 3.3-1 compression ratio is generally considered broadcast quality.
No, either in
.5 Mbyte/sec, one-seventh of te mini-dv original.
- Motion JPEG (the native format my analogue video capture card produces).
Data rate between 2 Mbyte/sec and 3.5Mbyte/sec.
- DV format (This format is spit out by current mini-DV and digital-8 video cameras,
at a fixed rate of 3.5 Mbyte/sec.
These formats do not use inter-frame dependencies, that's why they need this high datarates. In contrast, mpeg1, mpeg2, divx and the like DO use inter frame dependencies, and as a result, use much lower data rates for the same quality, as low as 2 Mbit/sec (or
The native dvd-rom format also uses (a form of) mpeg2, at any rate, that format uses inter frame dependencies, and therefore can get away with a lower datarate.
That's easy enough to deal with. You write unencrypted content. Problem solved.
Problem not solved.
Your player won't play unencrypted content. It will look for the content code, which will return the zeros. It will then refuse to play the disc.
Unless you play with the firmware or software, and unlike Region Codes, there's very little inroads which have been made into supplying replacement firmware or software capable of playing consumer written DVD content [obviously these would be underground efforts - like with console games, producing any DVD content involves licensing from those who intented the system - the MPAA].
OSS will likely be one of the first players to support consumer produced, backup, and pirate DVD content if enough [that fits into the first two categories] is produced.
Mike
When capturing video from a hi-8, digital-8 or mini-dv camera, in motion-jpeg or similar format, to retain sufficient quality, you need between 2.5 and 4 Mbyte/sec. For mini-dv, the rate is fixed at 3.5 Mbyte/sec. The format is fixed, it is determined by what you capturing hardware gives you.
Then, 4700 Mbytes at 3.5 Mbyte/sec gives you the 22 minutes I mentioned.
Pioneer also plans to continue sales of its popular external DVD-Recordable drive (DVR-S201) for high-end authoring and content development applications.
First, as the subject points out, DVD-R is not the same thing as DVD-Recordable (the latter will play in any DVD player and does not have the disk key zeroed out -- it can be used to make true DVDs and, indeed, the early players could be used to make bit-for-bit copies sans decryption, a feature later removed when the MPAA discovered it would undermine their court battle against DeCSS).
Second, Pioneer's statement appears to imply that DVD-Recordable drives will remain (artifically?) expensive, while the DVD-R/DVD-RW drive will be priced lower for consumer use.
I'm afraid DVD-Recordable media isn't likely to come down in price anytime soon, although DVD-R and DVD-RW media should.
As another pointed out, it is likely that future DVD players will play DVD-R and DVD-RW disks, as there are many of us who want to make our own DVDs from our own home videos and be able to send them to our grandparent's/relatives to watch. Pioneer seems to imply this when they say
"The driving force behind both DVD-R and DVD-RW has always been compatibility with standard DVD playback systems," said Andy Parsons, senior vice president of product development and technical support, Pioneer New Media Technologies, Inc.. "Pioneer believes that interchangeability between recorders and players is the most important attribute any recordable DVD format can offer [...]"
The Future of Human Evolution: Autonomy
i've still got a 2x6 burner that i payed $350 for. the times they are a changin'...
I've also still got a SINGLE speed caddy-loading cd rom drive in a 486 that just sits around and doesn't do much. I figure if i hang on to it long enough, it may become worth more as an antique... mmm...
Shameless Self Promotion : Webhosting at Blender Networks.
Just thought that I'd point out that this is NOT the first DVD-R drive, and I'm not reffering to DVD-RAM either. For quite some time now, several manufacturers have been offering drives (costing a few thousand dollars apeice, mind you) that write DVD-R discs that can be read in normal DVD-ROM drives and set-top DVD players. The blanks have run a little rich at $30 each, but what with double layering, double-siding, MPEG-4, etc. that's a lotta movies (or data).
This new drive may be the first cheap commercially available DVD recorder, but affordable drives with similar specs have been available in Japan for several months now. Of course, I'm not complaining now that we'll get them in the states, but I just thought I'd point out that this is nothing new.
Anonymous Luddite: "What do you think of the dehumanizing effects of the Internet?"
Andy Grove: "Not Much."
Cheers for the reply.
:)
Oh, and about the sig - i guess thats why i use windows - they both suck
Yup. That's why DVD-R rocks, and all the other writeable DVD standards are completely useless.
Have you seen the size of the books of CDs that Sun and Microsoft put out when they ship their OSs and unbundled software products?
Sorry, what I meant was, "I have yet to find a cd player that I already own that can use CD-RW" :) I assumed that they existed.
"The question of whether a computer can think is no more interesting than that of whether a submarine can swim" -EWD
I know the current DVD-RAM disks won't read in normal DVD players. But DVD-RAM is a different beast from DVDR. DVD-RAM is what you can get in a Macintosh for $600. It's disks won't play in a consumer DVD player. DVDR is the real thing, and has been prohibitively expensive to do, with burners running around $10-16k. It's disks do in fact play in consumer machines.
Got a link? That's an INSANE price for a DVD-R drive. I want it. Now.
Selectively forward looking. They saw the time when DVD's were cheap and movies could be downloaded, but they obviously missed the part in the future where they no longer exist. ;-)
-----
"People who bite the hand that feeds them usually lick the boot that kicks them"
Higher Logics: where programming meets science.
--
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
I've read 2001, but not seen the movie, anygood?
Will the dvd-R media be reliable, cheap cd-r/rw's are known to fail from time to time (or player to player). With backups, movies, music in gig quantities this could be a issue, as these drives try to establish themselves in consumer markets.
And have you ever felt the need to copy this CDs?
DVD is nice but why DVDR?
--
There is no such thing as gravity. The Earth just sucks.
Are you storing your movies in .bmp format?
/ri chardl/SilverListFrameSet.html
No, he is probably storing them in DV format which, IIRC, generates something like 3.6 MByte / s. The DV format is an adaption of the MPEG format, creating a constant byte-flow. I suspect that storing in bitmapped format would increase the size even more.
Well lets do the math:
(Assume bitmap)
4.7GByte / (22 minutes * 60 seconds * 24 frames/s) = 154 KByte / frame
This is true-colour, so divide by 4 to get the number of pixels: 39321 pixels / frame
Let's get a reasonable size e.g. 512 pixels by x pixels. To get an almost square picture, the resolution must be something like 200x197. The DV-standard is more like 780x560 (IIRC).
So the answer to your question is a definite No.
For more info on DV-Editing, one could start at http://www.well.com/user
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"Multiple exclamation marks are a sure sign of a sick mind." (Terry Pratchett)
~paqez
Small addition: The story at The Register mentioned elsewhere in this thread states that this recorder is targeted at
"digital video editing and archiving in particular"
I've yet to find an older audio CD player that will play a CD-RW. You must be on crack.
Hoping that someone here can answer me a little question.
All the DVD players i`ve seen (not many, i`ll admit) seem to have the same problem that pc games that stream video from cd have - that horrible flickering and pausing whenever a large amount of the picture changes from one frame to the next. Its fine when people are sitting around talking, then someone stands up and you lose a frame.
Has this been sorted out on recent players? I imagine its just a processing power thing, or maybe a badly-encoded disk thing, but i still see it.
Ok, let's see here if there fine for copyright violation is $150,000 per offense. Using DVD-RAM and Divx, I can fit around 7 movies per disc if they are all aroun 650 megs, providing that they aren't too long. 7 * $150,000 = 1,050,000. That has to be some kind of record for fine efficiency when pirating! Plus I don't know if the fine for pirating movies is more than $150K or not. See!
$20 isn't really all that much to pay. Oh! My astute collegue points out that there is also some prison time included with such a sentence.
-"You'll have plenty of time to sleep when you're dead."
Why is this practical? Because DVD is useful for more than just pirating commercial movies. Because DVD-RWs will likely get much cheaper in the future. It wasn't that long ago that CD-Rs were about $10 apiece.
"The legitimate powers of government extend only to such acts as are injurious to others." Thomas Jefferson.
I used to work for a Video Post Production
facility and we had a Pioneer DVD Burner and
Authoring software for the PC (not sure
exactly what, it wasn't my area).
We could author DVD's just fine with this setup
that would play on standalone DVD players or
on Computers with DVD drives. It was common
for clients to ask for copies of their commercials
on DVD and we could provide them no problem.
I believe you can choose to author an unencrypted
regionless DVD (which is what we were doing) and
players will play them fine.
> To the citizens of the United States of America,
> In the light of your failure to elect a President of the USA and thus to
> govern yourselves, we hereby give notice of the revocation of your
> independence, effective today.
> Her Sovereign Majesty Queen Elizabeth II will resume monarchial duties
> over all states, commonwealths and other territories. Except Utah, which
> she does not fancy. Your new prime minister (The rt. hon. Tony Blair, MP
> for the 97.85% of you who have until now been unaware that there is a
> world outside your borders) will appoint a minister for America without
> the need for further elections. Congress and the Senate will be
> disbanded. A questionnaire will be circulated next year to determine
> whether any of you noticed.
> To aid in the transition to a British Crown Dependency, the following
> rules are introduced with immediate effect:
> 1. You should look up "revocation" in the Oxford English Dictionary.
> Then look up "aluminium". Check the pronunciation guide. You will be
> amazed at just how wrongly you have been pronouncing it. Generally, you
> should raise your vocabulary to acceptable levels. Look up "vocabulary".
> Using the same twenty seven words interspersed with filler noises such as
> "like" and "you know" is an unacceptable and inefficient form of
> communication. Look up "interspersed".
> 2. There is no such thing as "US English". We will let Microsoft know
> on your behalf.
> 3. You should learn to distinguish the English and Australian accents.
> It really isn't that hard.
> 4. Hollywood will be required occasionally to cast English actors as
> the good guys.
> 5. You should relearn your original national anthem, "God Save The
> Queen", but only after fully carrying out task 1. We would not want you
> to get confused and give up half way through.
> 6. You should stop playing American "football". There is only one kind
> of football. What you refer to as American "football" is not a very good
> game. The 2.15% of you who are aware that there is a world outside your
> borders may have noticed that no one else plays "American" football. You
> will no longer be allowed to play it, and should instead play proper
> football. Initially, it would be best if you played with the girls. It
> is a difficult game. Those of you brave enough will, in time, be allowed
> to play rugby (which is similar to American "football", but does not
> involve stopping for a rest every twenty seconds or wearing full kevlar
> body armour like nancies). We are hoping to get together at least a US
> rugby sevens side by 2005.
> 7. You should declare war on Quebec and France, using nuclear weapons
> if they give you any merde. The 98.85% of you who were not aware that
> there is a world outside your borders should count yourselves lucky. The
> Russians have never been the bad guys. "Merde" is French for "sh*t".
> 8. July 4th is no longer a public holiday. November 8th will be a new
> national holiday, but only in England. It will be called "Indecisive
> Day".
> 9. All American cars are hereby banned. They are crap and it is for
> your own good. When we show you German cars, you will understand what we
> mean.
> 10. Please tell us who killed JFK. It's been driving us crazy.
>
> Thank you for your cooperation.
Hmm... I could do with some more details on the page, but overall this looks very very cool.
Hopefully the price of the DVD media isn't completely unreasonable. Hmm.. this could also make Napster irrelevant: Start filling these disks up with music and there would no longer be any need to share files instead of just adding onto and mailing diskfulls.
Just my two cents...
... is that DVD-R and DVD-RW media normally cost more than buying a normal DVD movie, so unless those copying DVDs are buying them in /huge/ bulk, the MPAA shouldn't get too concerned... for the time being anyway!
ManicHawk - Just because you're manic doesn't mean the walls aren't bouncy
I like to see a product like this coming from a well respected brand such as Pioneer. Not only does that imply a high quality product, it shows that a major corporation does not fear legal repurcussions by groups such as the MPAA. If all holds true, prices on this type of system will fall eventually, and replicating DVD's can be as easy at doing the same with compact discs. Remember, it wasn't that long ago that cd burners were out of most people's budgets...
Hi,
Just wondering... anybody any idea what this writer will cost? And, what do you pay for a blank writable 4.7 gig DVD these days?
Bzzzt. Try again - it's not that it needs its data to come in at a steady rate, but rather that it needs to have data in its buffer whenever it wants to write out a block. Whether or not ATAPI occasionally would drop below this 18X (2770Kb/s) threshold is irrelevant - that's what the burner's buffer is for. Most of the time the system could maintain far higher transfer rates than 18X, keeping the buffer nice & full for those few times when transfer rates dip below the threshold. This is why burners with bigger buffers are more reliable burners - they take hard drive data transfer rate fluctuation out of the equation in all but extreme cases.
"So on one hand, honey is an amazingly sophisticated and efficient food source. On the other hand it's bee backwash."
I'm just waiting for the first drive that will allow real-time video/audio recording, so I can keep full quality digital copies of TV shows. There are stand-alones that can do it for a few thousand dollars, but I expect it will be a while until we can get internal drives that do it at a reasonable domestic price.
I rented a game the other day for my kid that wouldn't play in my Playstation because it said I had a modified console.. I about shit when I saw that message.. Its that new Spyro game... luckily I have a PS without a mod chip and an older one with the mod chip for my... /er ehm backup copies of my legally purchased games... /er ehm
Perhaps today is a good day to die! -Worf
Right. It's an IDE device control protocol which is inferior. i.e. you're always likely to have more burn errors due to the drive not being fed properly if you're using IDE rather than SCSI. It's a fact of life - Even for a single drive, IDE uses far more CPU than SCSI. And once you take into account IDE's lack of bus disconnection, it gets worse. (And IDE device servicing a request ties up the bus, while a SCSI bus only uses the bus when it actually has data to communicate.)
retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
I don't expect it to be affordable right away, but how unaffordable it is should give an indication as to how far away from the mainstream it is.
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a rigged demo
--Andy Finkel (J. Klass?)
The moderation system has failed us again. I moderated this post up when it was relevent.. here it is completely off topic. You can't even pretend. Too bad I'm posting this; it would get -1 Redundant, -1 Off Topic. Grr.
I'd be afraid of getting moderated down, but if moderation continues in this fashion, then I'll probably wind up with +5 funny.
------------
CitizenC
My name is not 'nospam,' but 'citizenc'.
DVDRs have certain portions of the disk already written to as part of their production companies licensing deal with the MPAA. The bits required for the disk key are already prewritten with zeroes.
You can't burn an exact copy of a DVD to a DVDR, and your inexact copy won't play in most peoples DVD drives.
Wow! Why would anyone buy this thing if you can't use it to illegally copy protected material. What a waste of technology
I seriously doubt this :
1) what's the point of having a DVD-R writer if you can't author your own videos and play them on a regular DVD player ? Surely, preventing all DVD-R from reading on a stand alone DVD player would kill a lot of the legit market for DVD-R. Many people want to edit their own DV videos and then burn them on a DVD-R to watch WITHOUT A COMPUTER.
2) if current DVD player don't like the unencrypted DVD-R, the new players will (see point 1).
3) if not point 2, then someone will offer firmware hacking (like all the dezoning and de-macrovisioning currently happening on the market)
Can the current set of dvd-players on the market play recorded dvd-rams?
I noticed Pioneer is selling another blank DVD listed as for authoring. The are listed as suitable for making press masters. I think that means those pesky zero'ed bits are not zeroed! Anybody know for sure?
The truth shall set you free!
Cool, huh...
Wait 'til you see the prices...
Mark
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."
- if you love something, set it free; if it doesn't come back, hunt it down and kill it
Harddisk are so cheap nowadays that i real wonder who will need to write and even rewrite DVDR's even if the price's drop like hell.
The only reason to use CDR's is to transport Data (and maybe backup's) and normaly 650M should be enough. So a DVDR makes only sens if you need more than 650M. And even than DVD has a long way to go until there is a standard and ever DVD can read any DVDR.
So i think until there is no standard for DVD's there is no market for it. And even than i don't think that a few crack's who want to copy movie's and people who need to store great amount's of data on a transportable media will be enough to drop the price on a level where DVDR's will be a mass-produced article.
--
There is no such thing as gravity. The Earth just sucks.
Worse, you can't even legally copy copy protected media! No backups of your favorite movies, no fair use.
I read the internet for the articles.
Right as in "Right Honourable" of course, but
this is the only time the "R" word shall be
allowed in common discourse.
At all other times when not addressing vicars,
barristers, Members of Parliament, &Etc. the word "Left" shall be used instead, viz. "Leftenant", left wing (this is a football term).
Latin terms shall be interposed when at all possible and fully pronounced (if you can alread), viz. ibid., op. cit., ad astra. ("et al" and "aka" shall not be allowed).
Finally schoolchildren shall be taught proper history including the feats of British generals in the War and the correct reasons for the hiatus in proper government of the colonies, in order to pass the A and O levels to get into a proper institution of higher education, or failing that, to go on the dole. And all [potatoe] chips shall be wrapped in newspaper, God Save the Queen.
If you have an apex ad-600a with the loopholes menu would you not be able to disable the css and have the movie play? Or is there something else I am missing?
I think we're going to need a better menuing system.
Alakaboo
A hobby of mine is to edit home videos on my PC. 4.7 gigs is not a lot for me... It holds 22 minutes of video. So, to hold a 90 minutes tape, I need 4 of these DVDs.
:-)
As usual, people find applications for these seemingly huge storage devices at at least the speed at which storage sizes increase... You give me the storage space, and trust me, I will fill it up for you
DANG! I still havent filled up my first CDR after having my cdrw drive for 18 months.
However, as devices like this one come out and get more popular, it will cause the demand for blank DVDs to increase. This will naturally lead to a drop in price.
Consider this: A a few years ago, blank CDs were going for about $5/pop. Now you can get them in bulk for about fifty cents each. Given enough time the same thing will happen with blank DVDs.
This is why the MPAA was so incensed over the DeCSS. They were looking ahead to when blank DVDs would be much less expensive than those with content put out by the studios. Whether or not this is good/bad/or otherwise, I'll leave to the reader.
Last night I shot an elephant in my pajamas. How he got in my pajamas I'll never know.
...which doesn't mean it's better - but it sells more.
2000-11-13 20:52:01 The Ultimate Recordable (articles,hardware) (rejected) - but I'm not bitter.
BlackNova Traders
...is here.
BlackNova Traders
Freedom: "I won't!"
Today, typically you have to create huge uncompressed video files, take them to an editing suite, read them in (slowly) on an Avid, and write them out to tape. (You can't compress them up front because they're going to be compressed in motion JPEG in the Avid, and if they're decompressed and recompressed with a different algorithm, artifacts appear.) This costs a few hundred dollars a run if you send it out. Then you get to send the master out to a VHS reproduction shop, where the quality usually drops.
I doubt the MPAA will go after this one.
Because if they did, they'd have to go after the manufacturers of hard drives, large removable drives, etc.
All that an economical DVD-R drive means is that you will be able to burn larger data disks. DVD-R drives cannot burn exact digital coppies -- the encryption key is zeroed.
So you will still need DeCSS.
Having said that, I want one. I have already run up against the limits of CD-R disks. I record music, do 3D artwork, and other such things. My recent project is at HDTV resolution. 3 minutes of uncompressed HDTV video would fit on a DVD-R. It won't fit on a CD-R.
I'd also love to take all of my older videocassettes and record them to DVD so that I don't have to wory about how long the VHS tapes will last.
Gentoo Sucks
http://www.oconnell.net/~jim/images/london/leehofo ok.jpg
(too lazy to html-ize it...)
I'm glad to see other people know the place - No one that I mentioned it to at the time had any idea what I was talking about.
:-)
Cheers,
Jim in Tokyo
-- My Weblog.
CSS encryption is allowed for, but not required by the DVD standard. Provision was made for those who either did not need encryption or who wished to explicity allow copying.
Surely, preventing all DVD-R from reading on a stand alone DVD player would kill a lot of the legit market for DVD-R.
No offense, but you haven't been watching much news in the last year, have you? Those that have would note that the whole DVD industry is far from legit, even from the very beginning. They don't consumers making DVD-R's at all, let alone for a low price.
I surely do hope all of your predictions are correct. I'd much like to see DVD eventually become more of a recognized standard than the vast market strongarm tactic it currently is.
And let's not forget that five computer is about all what will be needed for the entire world.
____________________
Ni!
How do you call these drives?
8x4x?x2x1x?
Had to insert ?s because they didn't mention the drive's CD and DVD read speeds.
I still have a 4x4 CDR at home. And that's not a car.
GCS/MU d- s+: a- C++$ USH++$ P- L+> E W++$ N o-- K- W++@ O-- M- !V PS Y+ PGP- t+ 5(+) X- R tv? b++++ y++(+++)
A while back, when CD-R was shiny and new, I found I had a problem with my hi-fi. It wouldn't play CD-Rs. Being a bit of a technophile I'd bought the player when they weren't exactly mainstream, and it was getting on a bit. When I bought my first CD-writer I found that my recordings of CD audio weren't compatible with an older cd player. They were fine on computer drives, but audio players didn't like it at all.
Do DVD players of the set-top box variety play DVD-R discs? This is not an obvious attempt at piracy. The company I work for produces video adverts for things, and DVD would be a great medium for sending to people. Unfortunately even the shortest production run of DVDs costs more than my annual salary (well, not quite, but exaggeration is allowable). Would a DVD writer be a viable option instead?
http://twitter.com/onion2k
I think this drive is a great idea, but it must be thought about how practical this drive is with DVD-RW's costing more than the actual DVD's.
DVDRs have certain portions of the disk already written to as part of their production companies licensing deal with the MPAA. The bits required for the disk key are already prewritten with zeroes.
You can't burn an exact copy of a DVD to a DVDR, and your inexact copy won't play in most peoples DVD drives.