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120 Gigabit Pipe To Oz Begins Operation
dustpuppy writes: "The new Southern Cross Cable Network connecting Australia to the US is now operational. Featuring 120 Gigabit capacity and with a latency of 70 msec, the new trans-Pacific cable is 120 times the capacity of the existing Australasia/North America connection. Now us poor Aussies can download our mp3s that much faster! You can read more about it here." Interesting, too, how it's constructed. From the article: "The network consisted of two separate cables configured in three self-healing rings, with all three rings to be completed early next year. The duplicate-ring construction gave the network greater redundancy - if one side of the network was damaged or became inoperable, traffic could be transferred to the other side instantly." Neat.
Good idea ... works for about 10 years ... then what?
I don't know about the rest of the stuff, but if I were the one designing it, I would have made it so that you could easly string newer faster/better cables so you wouldn't have to re-dig everything.
Chris C.
I wasn't lost... I was only momentaraly confused of my spacial orientation relative to my prime destination.
It's been pretty slow here in NZ for the last few months, hopefully this'll speed things up a bit.
when completed, it will (temporarily) be the largest capacity undersea cable in the world.
http://www.businessworldindia.com/archive/200911 /mktg2.htm
skip to near the bottom for:
No plans for Asia? check www.360.net BIG PLANS!
Hey, I was trying tom be funny, not informative or insightful! Don't blame me!
Except that signals don't travel at the speed of light. It's about 2.3*10^8 m/s in cable and 2.0*10^8 in fiber.
Isn't there any concern that an incredibly fake looking great white shark might bite through this and explode...?
No, wait, that was Jaws 2.
-----
"Defenestration" is to throw out of a window; what's a word for throwing 'Windows' out of something?
Both locations are light-industrial with a small population of IT type stuff.
The interesting thing about it is that both Alexandria and Brookvale are about 10Km inland from the sea. I haven't figured that bit out yet...
I find your ideas intriguing and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
I rememeber a long time ago (late 80s) reading a writeup of the Morris Internet Work attack. At that point, I had no idea what Unix really was, or TCP/IP. I just remember the paper talking about an attack coming on in port something and sending a packet back to port something else.
I had this visual of this computer with somesort of interface that had x number of physical ports on it...kinda like a LOT of serial ports or something just sitting there.
Odd.
Interesting timing for this. For some reason, I can get to .au sites no problem, but cannot get to cnn.com or google.com. So Australia goes high-bandwidth, and half of America drops off the net.
Thats the old measure. The number is so odd because they wanted to maintain backwards compatibility.
Just what the world needed, a group of nations in the South Pacific with more bandwidth for sending spam. Anyone ever see Telstra's toothless AUP?
spamparadise.mp3 (Mirror this please, don't kill my ISP)
Use Evolution instead of Outlook? Bewa
You know a robotech geek came up with that name.
"Today on Sport Fishing Television we see the amazing catch of a truly monster Great White Shark, and you'll be truly amazed what we find when we split open its belly - 30 thousand kilometers of fiber optic cable - What a monster!"
</ACCENT>
There are a thousand forms of subversion, but few can equal the convenience and immediacy of a cream pie -Noel Godin
In Austrailia is most likely that single customer the is hook up to the pipe.
Naturally this is true, because currently the only telcos. laying out high bandwidth lines are american ones - why? because the vast majority of internet content is located in the US & Canada, and that's what people want to access.
There really aren't many South Korean websites that constitute a demand for direct Japan-SK. connections. Europe is currently at the stage of internet development that N.A. was in say '97, '98, hell they still have internet cafes. Once the local content goes up, local telcos. will start building extra-N.A. network infrastructure.
There are a thousand forms of subversion, but few can equal the convenience and immediacy of a cream pie -Noel Godin
We used to joke about netrek being a network testing tool - it was one of the first real-time multiplayer Net games.
Those were the days (even if Australia did get thrashed by CMU playing with 750ms satellite lag on an Australian server).
Danny (ICMP Redirect).
I have written over 900 book reviews
--
--
We apologise for the inconvenience.
Basically, the government is *totally* uninterested in censoring the net - it just likes the legislation so it can point to it and convince the wowsers that it is doing something to protect the Children. While I dislike this kind of thing, I would prefer a situation of bad legislation being ignored to bad legislation wreaking havoc by enforcing it.
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a rigged demo
--Andy Finkel (J. Klass?)
Have fun!
Link.
Care Factor "ZERO"
I propose diggin a big hole to australlia. We could cut latency to 50ms or so.
Time is Change.
some of the first Modems were developed in Perth, Western Australia
grow a brain ass hole
exactly what I was getting at ... this really doesn't make much sense except for the "now"
Ignore the "p2p is theft" trolls, they're just uninformed
also i remember seeing recently on the News that something like over 40% of australians use the internet (i cant remember the exact figuire so correct me if im wrong)
get a clue
The southern cross is a constellation seen in the southern hemisphere!
-- Karma Karma Karma Karma, Karma Chameleon - Boy George
Yes, but how big are these mp3s? Are these punk mp3s? Leonard Cohen mp3s? =)
But then it's like most (usually lying) women say: "it doesn't matter how big the mp3 is, only how long you can maintain your connection."
end communication
not completely true,
ever heard of Project Echelon? collaboration between US and australia for monitoring phone conversations, internet traffic etc.. for terrorist activity
email me if you're interested and ill give u some URL's
While I'm here, someone mentioned that 70ms is pretty slow for this type of connection - which amazes me, because it blew me away that they could get it that low. (remember, we're talking 1 direction latency here - not ping times, which would atleast be double)
A quick calculation:
A quick check of the net tells me that the distance from Sydney (where the cable is landed in .au) to Los Angeles is 7487 miles (according to a travel agent flight distance site - who knows?), or about 11979km. (pretty similar to the diameter of the earth, which is 12742km)
The speed of light is roughly 299,792,458 m/s so, the best (according to current physics :/) time we can do is about:
39.957 milliseconds
Just at the speed of light we lose almost 40ms, then they've gotta switch it at several points along the way, and while optical switches EXIST, it seems unlikely they're doing optical switching yet.
All in all I reckon the 70ms figure is AMAZING..
do you think anyone cares?
There's a whole bunch of others owned by different Telcos and stuff. It's a messy picture, and no one provider (or even two providers) has been able to offer a good (read fast + reliable) service out of the country.
I find your ideas intriguing and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
get your facts straight ass hole
is that your actual view
.oO0Oo.
if so it's the normal crappy view of the rest of the world that most westerners have
you can't ban Doom if no-one has a PC!!
and the last time i looked the people Johannesburg (check sp!) weren't naked
There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
I know the subject sounds absurd, but this sounds uncannily like one Napster idiot observing my ResNet connection and remarking, "Hey, that's a fast connection you have. I'm thinking about getting T3 for my computer, too."
I'm a fan of more bandwidth as much as the next guy, but what price does this come to for the Aussies so they can "be just like the Americans"? 120 Gb redundancy connection. Not to mention, they won't be sharing this with anyone; this single pipeline connects Australia with the US. How many people does Australia have in comparison to Asia or North America? I'm too lazy to do this, but someone calculate average Kbit/sec/person for the continents, assuming everyone was online and accessing some obscure document in the US, say, the front page of Slashdot. (:
~ferich
At 3 (generally observed atlantic expansion, or "What I was taught throughout high-school") inches per year, I doubt we'll have to worry about plate tectonics destroying these cables. No, I'd be more worried about undersea lava eruptions, deep core oil drilling, or sinking ships severing the cable.
Variation in all things. 299,792,458m/s is the average speed of light.
The whole world doesn't revolve around Australia, Slashdot. How about some American articles for a change?
</parody>
-Legion (donning Euro-flame-proof suit)
All generalizations are false.
--
I like to watch.
yeh, Foster's started showing up on tap at various pubs that never used to touch it :) .. it's kinda died down again now
Coopers is still the best Australian beer (IMNSHO)
And your a fool.
Its a fact, places with higher percentages of gun ownership have less crime.. PERIOD.
Dont buy into all this "tightening gun laws saves lives"
Its total bullshit.
If they took our guns away that would be one step closer to making this country a police state (this country being US)
How would you like the only people who have guns to be the "police", and the "criminals"? Of course your a criminal for owning a gun of they were totally outlawed.
Far to many people jump on a bandwagon they truly understand very little about.
What needs to happen is parents need to take responsibility and teach their children the truth about guns and stop spreading FUD and doing asinine shit because a few accidents happened
Of course gun laws were invented to keep *SLAVES* from getting guns, hows that for nice.
Our country was founded on guns and free people fighting with them, thats the way its always going to stay, at least as long as your free..
Jeremy
Same as with Heineken.
:)
Although it's popular here, it's the "Bud" of this country.
But I'm glad y'all think we're cool
<grub> Reading
thank you my friend
.oO0Oo.
I love this place. Information I didn't even know I wanted. Good to see something counteracting the crappy view that anywhere outside the US, W. Europe or Japan is just a clump of mud huts filled with starving cavemen.
There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
Okay, now Australia has a broad enough pipe that they might as well be part of the US, from a network-routing point of view. Western Europe has been in that situation for a long time; there's no real difference between getting something from Britain, France, Oklahoma, and now, Australia. When is the rest of the world going to join in? The "ring of fire" around Africa seems to have dropped out of the news. I know of no major plans for eastern europe or asia. Is the rest of the world economically well off enough that soon they will be players, too?
I've had this sig for three days.
If I were in charge I'd just connect a long phone line.
That's _after_ you've defined the second.
The chicken/egg problem. Which was first, the second or the meter.
('the foot' is the wrong answer)
<grub> Reading
I've been a nerd nearly all my life, but it still floors me to think that it takes longer for information carried by sound to travel between two people yelling to each other from opposite ends of a stadium in Sydney than it does for information carried by the Net to travel between two people chatting from opposite sides of the globe...anybody else feel this way?
Ah, but it depends how many people are sharing Metallica's new album. That could skew the figures somewhat ;)
Seems like a high latency for that type of connection... Wouldn't 70 usec (microseconds) make more sense? Or maybe 7 msec?
120 gigabit Pipe to FLorida Begins Operation? Elderly citizens voting at 120 gb?
Or are they going to forgo their censorship?
Fight Spammers!
Speed of light is about 300,000 km/sec
Network distance from Australia to USA is about 15,000km, noting that the network is a ring and it's said to be 30,500km long.
15000/300000=0.050 seconds=50 ms.
So 70ms is not too bad, considering that the speed of light in fibre optic cables isn't as fast as in space, and there is probably some network latency at the ends and the repeaters.
That's why I'm an HPB. It's about 150msec(Pacific Ocean) + 120 msec (56K modem signal processing time) + 50-100 msec for various internetwork latencies. So I end up with 370msec on a good day.
Cheerio,
Link.
Just cause we arn't in the centre of the internet world. Cut us some slack!
-- Karma Karma Karma Karma, Karma Chameleon - Boy George
Routing through the mideast is a little dicey given the political instability. The infrastructure costs make a fat pipe via siberia a real pain.
The point is simply redundancy, as well as opening up the net to other areas of the world. a fat pipe going through that part of the world would help this out tremendously.
"It is a greater offense to steal men's labor, than their clothes"
If you are in fact referring to the IT section of the Australian being a bit naff, then I would wholeheartedly agree. Along with nearly all mass media in this country (with the exception of SBS and ABC) and Murdoch's crud in particular.
See Map of network for details.
I find your ideas intriguing and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
it's like some beautiful dream. Would someone care to comment on the politics of this? Why in the last year we've gone from modem to cable to dsl and now they're actually working on the backbone? Who the hell is behind this? Maybe we should send them flowers or something.
How we know is more important than what we know.
We used to be like that. THen the government made a deal with this independent christian. THey voted for some internet censorship and he voted for racsist policies against the aboriginals involving land rights. We don't like our government please invade so we can get rid of them! It doesn't work though. As much porn as we want still!!!
-- Karma Karma Karma Karma, Karma Chameleon - Boy George
The Southern Cross Cable also connects New Zealand to the US (and Australia). It is a great relief, when our existing connections were high latency and not always the most reliable.
Actually this is more of an NZ thing than an Australian thing, the majority of the Southern Cross company is owned by NZ Telecom... But the Aussies are taking credit, just like they did for Crowded House and Russell Crowe... Bastards!
Yes, I'm serious. The highest-bandwith path from Italy to France is Italy-US-France. The highest-bandwith path from South Korea to Japan is South Korea-US-Japan. In only a handful of cases are two nations that share borders linked to each other better than each is to the U.S.
You want the Internet to be properly recognized as international? Then build some fscking intra-Asian and intra-European bandwith already!
There's no "we" in team, only "me"
its morons like you that give australia a bad name
get a clue
that was a pointless post
i was simply pointing out the facts
__________________
__________________
"Extraordinary statements need extraordinary proof."
Fact: The District of Columbia has the toughest gun laws in the U.S., much stricter than most of the world also.
Fact: The District of Columbia has had the first or second highest per-capita murder rate for the past ten years. Combine that with one of the highest rates of overall violent crime.
Spankfish is absolutely right about the U.S. rate of incarceration. A closer look at those statistics show most prisoners are serving time for drug convictions not gun convictions.
"Those who would sacrfice liberty for temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" - Benjamin Franklin
Victoria Bitter- urghh!!
.oO0Oo.
Emu was my favourite. On the plane back to Blighty I drank all the Emu they had on board - which made my transfer in Singapore in "interesting" experience.
Mind you it wasn't as bad as my colleague who worked in a Swedish airline. They went out for drinks one night and woke up in Thailand. Ah the joys of cheap travel.
There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
DWDM (dense wave-division multiplexing) lets you run many wavelengths simultaneously within a single fibre - probably this pipe is already using this, but DWDM will continue to improve, meaning that you can just upgrade the kit at each end to upgrade your bandwidth. 1 Terabit, here we come...
Or maybe it's just those damned sexy female aussie accents. :)
ToiletDuk (58% Slashdot Pure)
Somehow I doubt this. The violence probably stems more from social factors other than people being disgruntled about the gun laws. I also wonder what the most commonly used murder weapons in Columbia are, and how this compares to other areas/states.
--
NO TOUCH MONKEY!
Good points mostly, but you seem to be saying that ATM is the only way to go for such big pipes - this is far from the case, particularly for IP traffic, due to the problems of scaling SAR on ATM router interfaces (i.e. slicing packets into cells then reassembling them). See http://www.juniper.net/techcenter/techpapers/20000 4-03.html for some background.
Most large providers seem to be going for packet over SONET for IP traffic, and will ultimately go for MPLS alongside this. Eventually, SONET may well disappear or shrink as DWDM-native protection/failover becomes available. The good news is that the ATM cell tax is going away, and the cost of managing networks is going down (every node will be an IP or MPLS router, or an optical switch). See http://www.mplsrc.com for more on MPLS, it provides most of the benefits of ATM with much less complexity and overhead.
then multiply it by 8 to get /MB price
.oO0Oo.
bzzt wrong
don't you think there's a reason that figures are quoted in bps not Kbps
There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
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Everyone knows that the real hubs of the internet are Toronto, Montreal and Edmonton! :)
Rod Taylor
Just to prove how buggered the australian internet set up is, obverve the following traceroute:
.772 mst (139.130.239.246) 15.692
ms 15.791 ms 15.710 ms
1 210.8.36.1 (210.8.36.1) 3.526 ms 2.226 ms 2.342 ms
2 serial1-3.cor2.ade.connect.com.au (203.63.119.242) 2.072 ms 1.978 ms 1.93 4 ms
3 fastethernet6-0-0.bdr1.ade.connect.com.au (203.63.113.78) 2.651 ms 2.500 m s 3.696 ms
4 atm0-1-0-3.bdr1.mel.connect.com.au (203.63.112.69) 45.819 ms 14.796 ms 14
5 Fddi1-0-1.lon6.Melbourne.telstra.net (139.130.49.81) 15.850 ms 17.774 ms 15.492 ms
6 GigabitEthernet3-0.lon-core3.Melbourne.telstra.ne
7 Pos2-1.way-core3.Adelaide.telstra.net (203.50.6.86) 30.905 ms 23.569 ms 2 4.304 ms
8 GigabitEthernet1-0.way-core4.Adelaide.telstra.net (203.50.117.18) 23.750 ms 23.782 ms 26.170 ms
9 Pos2-1.wel-core4.Perth.telstra.net (203.50.6.94) 51.895 ms 51.621 ms 51.3 56 ms
10 GigabitEthernet5-0.wel-core3.Perth.telstra.net (203.50.113.29) 55.052 ms 5 1.962 ms 52.283 ms
11 GigabitEthernet4-0.wel-gw1.Perth.telstra.net (203.50.113.18) 52.718 ms 59. 031 ms 52.144 ms
12 205.174.75.69 (205.174.75.69) 465.296 ms 464.902 ms 467.420 ms
13 166.49.228.9 (166.49.228.9) 457.883 ms 459.724 ms 457.532 ms
14 POS2-3.GW6.SFO4.ALTER.NET (157.130.197.77) 471.249 ms 470.961 ms 470.115 ms
15 504.ATM2-0.XR1.SFO4.ALTER.NET (152.63.53.26) 477.613 ms 476.981 ms 477.93 7 ms
16 191.at-2-1-0.TR1.SAC1.ALTER.NET (152.63.51.6) 474.051 ms 483.121 ms 472.0 90 ms
17 127.at-6-1-0.TR1.DCA6.ALTER.NET (152.63.2.177) 528.358 ms 528.051 ms 527. 656 ms
18 187.at-6-0-0.XR1.TCO1.ALTER.NET (152.63.34.17) 518.023 ms 544.072 ms 541. 069 ms
19 193.ATM7-0.GW7.TCO1.ALTER.NET (152.63.34.109) 581.842 ms 527.414 ms 527.3 07 ms
20 ctn-45904.customer.ALTER.NET (157.130.32.22) 522.004 ms 522.983 ms 521.42 1 ms
21 63.101.250.19 (63.101.250.19) 512.020 ms 512.199 ms 520.075 ms
22 www.wcicable.net (208.240.93.67) 519.041 ms 517.108 ms 517.176 ms
Observe: I'm in adelaide. My packet bounces from adelaide, to melbourne, back to adelaide, over to PERTH! over the OLD LINK FROM PERTH, bounces around the US for a bit, then hits your host. New link isn't touched. Now i'm no network infrastructure expert, but it seems to be that Australia lacks sensible routing within the country; the major backbones don't seem to be connected!
-"I still believe in revolution; I just don't capitalize it anymore." - srini!
Fact: The District of Columbia has the toughest gun laws in the U.S., much stricter than most of the world also.
Those laws were enacted in response to the high rates of violent crime escalated by the prevalence of firearms. It's not as if DC was a happy, peaceful place, and then suddenly someone randomly decided to ban handguns, and then everyone started shooting each other.
Once the gun culture has taken hold (and in the case of DC, continues to be fed by irresponsible western neighbor Virginia), it takes as long time to get worked out so the city can return to peace.
"Patriotism is your conviction that this country is superior to all other countries because you were born in it." -- GBS
What I find weird is the topology. Suppose all the people in the stadium were using a chat room to taunt each other. If they all use AIM, they've created an ad hoc network with its hub on one side of the planet and its nodes all on the other. And if they use various other interoperating chat networks, it gets even more complicated.
Of course to the Freenet folks, all this dispersion is not weird, but useful...
__________________
Interestingly enough, the New Zealand segment of the Southern Cross Cable goes via Whenuapai, which is also an airforce base. Can you say Echelon?
traceroute to 210.8.36.1 (210.8.36.1), 48 hops max, 40 byte packets
1 ica-gw1.tor2.uunet.ca (205.150.154.41) 132 ms 209.167.167.253 (209.167.167.253) 415 ms 74 ms
2 152.63.129.85 (152.63.129.85) 400 ms 364 ms 368 ms
3 295.ATM2-0.TR1.TOR2.ALTER.NET (152.63.128.42) 97 ms 64 ms 64 ms
4 137.at-7-3-0.TR1.DCA8.ALTER.NET (146.188.141.209) 168 ms 119 ms 85 ms
5 197.at-4-0-0.XR1.TCO1.ALTER.NET (152.63.32.193) 501 ms 510 ms 458 ms
6 193.ATM11-0-0.GW1.DCA3.ALTER.NET (146.188.161.61) 90 ms 93 ms 89 ms
7 Teleglobe-DC2-gw.customer.ALTER.NET (157.130.39.90) 101 ms 105 ms 101 ms
8 if-3-0.core1.Washington.Teleglobe.net (207.45.221.226) 99 ms 97 ms 93 ms
9 if-1-0.core2.Newark.Teleglobe.net (64.86.80.21) 101 ms 118 ms 102 ms
10 if-9-1.core2.NewYork.Teleglobe.net (207.45.223.194) 99 ms 150 ms 115 ms
11 if-3-0.core1.Scarborough.Teleglobe.net (207.45.222.106) 542 ms 526 ms 561 ms
12 if-1-2.core1.Burnaby.Teleglobe.net (207.45.223.89) 632 ms 628 ms 556 ms
13 if-1-0.core2.LakeCowichan.Teleglobe.net (207.45.223.174) 196 ms 179 ms 185 ms
14 if-11-0-0.bb3.LakeCowichan.Teleglobe.net (207.45.222.110) 260 ms 346 ms 225 ms
15 FastEthernet0-0-0.pad21.Sydney.telstra.net (203.50.13.69) 496 ms 550 ms 510 ms
16 GigabitEthernet5-0.pad-gw1.Sydney.telstra.net (203.50.13.66) 510 ms 498 ms 526 ms
17 FastEthernet0-0-0.pad-core2.Sydney.telstra.net (139.130.249.227) 898 ms 826 ms 933 ms
18 GigabitEthernet5-0-0.chw-core1.Sydney.telstra.net (203.50.6.129) 1241 ms 1062 ms 1146 ms
19 GigabitEthernet5-0.chw-core2.Sydney.telstra.net (203.50.13.54) 1141 ms 1095 ms 1138 ms
20 Pos4-0.exi-core1.Melbourne.telstra.net (203.50.6.18) 1104 ms 1074 ms 1187 ms
21 GigabitEthernet6-0.lon-core3.Melbourne.telstra.ne (203.50.6.153) 619 ms 723 ms 691 ms
22 FastEthernet0-0-0.lon6.Melbourne.telstra.net (139.130.239.232) 1277 ms 766 ms 676 ms
23 consat1.lnk.telstra.net (139.130.49.178) 744 ms 696 ms 679 ms
24 atm6-1-0-2.bdr1.ade.connect.com.au (203.63.112.70) 630 ms 648 ms 655 ms
25 fastethernet0-0.cor2.ade.connect.com.au (203.63.113.66) 615 ms 735 ms 687 ms
26 jas22981-3.gw.connect.com.au (203.63.119.241) 709 ms 712 ms 844 ms
Basically, tunnels through Toronto a bit (understandable), to the United States (also understandable, North-South pipes (to the US) are _generally_ larger in Canada than East-West ones). Then the surprise: it comes BACK to Toronto (Scarborough) and thence across Canada to the west Coast (Burnaby), and finally on a fairly tolerable Sydney-Melbourne-Adelaide routing.
Depending on the ISP du jour, packets from my home machine to a machine at work (about 4.5 km straightline distance) get routed through Chicago and/or West Orange. Or used to. I think they finally resurrected the Toronto peering point that had died a miserable death a while back.
--
--
The Internet is the Suppository of All Knowledge. You get it in the end.
The metre is the length of the path travelled by light in a vacuum during a time interval of 1/299 792 458 of a second.
:wq
Why would we want to do that. Apart from net speed Australia is the best coountry on earth. Never hear this here "A kid killed his 30 classmates today"
-- Karma Karma Karma Karma, Karma Chameleon - Boy George
Actually, the speed of light is _exactly_ 299,792,458 m/s. That number is what defines a meter. :-)
And if bandwidth was the case why not run to a closer contenant like ... Asia?
No point to it. There is no intra-Asian network; every Asian country has a wider link to the U.S. than it has with any other Asian country. So all you'd be doing is sharing the U.S. link of the one Asian country to which you cabled.
There's no "we" in team, only "me"
1) wireless is just not that fast. Wireless cannot in any way compete with hardline for speed.
2) high frequency RF, needed for any kind of bandwidth, tavels in straight lines.
3) They run the cable all that way becuase that's where the data is, and that's where the market is.
4) Furthermore, they run the cable all that way because it's a bigger, safer investment.
10 years? we're still using undersea cable that's been down for 25 years+.... don't understimate just how much data that is.
Re-dig? I'm not sure if you have looked at an atlas lately, but most of that cable would be submarine, not subterrainian. It is not a matter of leaving behind a draw string through which you can pull 30,500km (19000 miles) of fibre.
Finally lag free baldur's gate (hopefully)
-- Karma Karma Karma Karma, Karma Chameleon - Boy George
Southern Coss Cable Network.
Their main site is here
and a nice little animation which shows how the network works is here.
Actually, I think Pale Ale is generally considered to be better. I enjoy them both, and Cooper's Dark Ale, too.
The result was that he singlehandedly saturated the cross-Rockies pipe. The rest of us plebes with less-than joined-at-the-hip access to the national net got to deal with massive latencies (well over 300ms on average).
With this new pipe to Australia, it looks like we may be back to the old trick of it being faster to send a packet pan-pacific, than to the next province. (though for happier reasons).
Oh, never mind. I currently get 45ms to a machine in Edmonton... still better than the Southern cross pipe.
`ø,,ø`ø,,ø!
Free Software: Like love, it grows best when given away.
Ohh.
:-)
Sorry.... I made the same mistake the others did. Forgive me? Please?
-sid
a very dead thread by this point but i was gone for a couple days...
true, 70ms is not a speed per se, but if you're communicating with someone in australia via a means that requires a lot of back and forth traffic, the latency becomes a big issue. if you're stuck waiting for a reply from a remote machine before sending out your next chunk of data (like say a result to a query of some sort) then latency adds up.
sorry that my intent wasn't made clear in the original post... granted latency isn't as much of a speed limit as bandwidth, but it does have an effect on the speed of many types of communication)
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Telstra is working on that, .US
I cant rember what its called,
but IIRC its a 320GBps link between
.AU Japan and
You have 5 Moderator Points!
Which Helpless Linux zealot/MS basher do you want to mod down today?
1 core3-vic.melb.vch.com.au
2 Cont1-0.wel3.Perth.telstra.net
3 Fddi0-0.wel-core2.Perth.telstra.net
4 GigabitEthernet4-0.wel-core3.Perth.telstra.net
5 GigabitEthernet4-0.wel-gw1.Perth.telstra.net
6 Pos1-1.paix1.PaloAlto.telstra.
7 paix-f2-5.exodus.net
Mind you, all of the packets from my home machine go through Sydney *sigh*
Oh and its sceduled for 2003?
You have 5 Moderator Points!
Which Helpless Linux zealot/MS basher do you want to mod down today?
Try http://www.caida.org/tools/visualization/mapnet/. It does some cute java based maps.
---- "First came stats, pulling habits out of rats
Please explain what's wrong with this. Maybe you should read it again :)
Please I've lived in Sydney all my life, I don't know anyone who drinks fosters. give me VB
---- "First came stats, pulling habits out of rats
I'm not sure about the Pacific floor, but I know the Atlantic floor is expanding -- so this applies to trans-Atlantic cables at the veyr least.
As the plates expand at the rate of [inces/feet?] per year, what happens to the cables? Is the growth small enough that the cables won't stretch to a critical frailty until after they've outlived their usefulness?
at least the urine isn't pink like yak-milk is...
//rdj
No one can understand the truth until he drinks of coffee's frothy goodness.
--Sheikh Abd-Al-Kadir, 1587
This is pushing the topic a little bit, but is there a map or other representation of the bandwidth that various countries/continents have coming into/going out of them?
-
-
Give me liberty or give me something of equal or lesser value from your glossy 32-page catalog.
However the dearth of cable and DSL ISPs means that our lighting fast 56.6K modems probably won't notice the difference.
:wq
They don't even bother advertising the stuff here in Australia anymore.
Actually, I was having a drink (Victoria Bitter) in a pub just yesterday, and I asked one of my colleagues: "Have you ever seen an Australian drink Fosters other than under duress?".
He answered in the negative. (Under duress includes no other beer available!)
I find your ideas intriguing and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
http://it.fairfax.com.au/communications/20001114/A 41389-2000Nov10.html
"A 155 megabit circuit between Sydney and California, licensed for 15 years, which cost $US10.3 million, was discounted by 18 per cent if purchased before the November sales deadline."
It cost about 20c/MB retail for bandwidth in aus. This works out to a markup of 1400 times (see 1) between long term and short term prices.
I hope this link does bring down retail prices.
1) $ 10300000 / (15years * 155megabit * 52weeks * 7days * 24hours * 60minutes * 60 seconds) = 0.014 cents / megabit
I think i worked it out correctly
3 ATM5-0-0-1.cha9.Brisbane.telstra.net
4 GigabitEthernet3-0.cha-core3.Brisbane.telstra.
5 Pos0-3.ken-core1.Sydney.telstra.net
6 Pos2-3.wel-core3.Perth.telstra.net
7 GigabitEthernet4-0.wel-gw1.Perth.telstra.net
8 Pos1-0.paix1.PaloAlto.telstra.net
9 * paix-f2-5.exodus.net
Perth? What the hell are you doing in Perth? That's the wrong side of the country?
:wq
that one customer.
"We've already got one customer connected," Mr Stokes-McKeon said.
imagine that you had that whole pipe to yourself.
Canada has a beer called Molson EXPORT.
134340: I am not a number. I am a free planet!
Hmm.. I would be interested in your explaination as to why the gun death rate **per person** is so much lower in Australia than America. Everytime the gun laws have been tightened in Australia, the amount of gun deaths has dropped. Australia still has problems, and many groups are looking to have heavy restrictions or even banning of handguns. For example, in 1998 there were 57 gun assults in Australia, for 19 million people. There were 280 other deaths, 234 of them were suicide. 21 accidents. In total there were 327 gun deaths in 1998. The Australian assult rate is about 1 per 350,000 people year. (1999 Statistics) The American assult rate is about 1 per 25000 people, (1997 Statistics) Notice anything. Less guns mean less gun assults. Incidentially, Australia has less assults with all weapons due to laws resticting use in public, and even private. Just thought I might clear a few things up.
Yep it's a dubious claim to fame but that Internet censorship law was passed. So all the porn sites etc were shifted to US sites which are cheaper anyway. Brilliant, the "don't buy Australian" policy instigated by the Australian Government. A more recent one was to make netcasting fall under the same law as TV/radio, but fortunately that one was quashed. The trouble is that the Govt has interests in competing technologies, and despite claims by every State that they're the secret hideout of the world's leading technology, we're hopelessly behind and anything good that is done here is done as a battle with rather than with the support of Govt. No less a person than Billy G has been known to comment on the confusing and contradicting laws/stances Australia has regarding Internet :)
Wired Magazine last year or two years ago now had a great article on the laying of sea cables and the wiring of some asian country....If I remember correctly, the article as talked about the history of cables that have been layed on the sea bed...it was really interesting.
I agree, latency is very important. But I was pointing out that article writing is important as well, and that one was atrocious.
However, my fellow slashdotters didn't catch on, so I guess I shouldn't expect anyone else to notice, except maybe my old high-school Physics class, for instance...
Incidentally, latencies with combination satellite/modem services are absolutely *horrible* for some services, like a second sometimes...
---
pb Reply or e-mail; don't vaguely moderate.
pb Reply or e-mail; don't vaguely moderate.
Extraordinary statements require extraordinary proof, and I would love to see you prove that, considering that the USA has more people in prison than any other country in the world outside of Russia. This place is paradise for criminals.
If they took our guns away that would be one step closer to making this country a police state (this country being US)
How would you like the only people who have guns to be the "police", and the "criminals"? Of course your a criminal for owning a gun of they were totally outlawed.
Gun ownership is very restricted in Australia. I think that for the most part, people are glad that gun-toting lunatics cannot get their hands on ballistic weaponry. Gun ownership is what perpetuates your society of fear in America, IMO.
Imagine living in a place where you didn't have to worry that someone might have a gun. That the worst they could do is beat you up, maybe. You'd certainly have less worry about being dead.
Now a person like you would typically answer with something like "well if _I_ have a gun too, then I am safe". And we end up with situations like the US/Russian arms race and a whole lot of dick-waving bullshit. No thanks. I can live without it.
For all the blithering that goes on, trying to equate gun ownership and freedom, none of the gun-toting trolls on slashdot can adequately explain what gives them the freedom to kill a man. You don't have that freedom. You have laws against that. You don't need guns to get rid of a sucky government in a democracy either.
You can live in more freedom without guns.
--
NO TOUCH MONKEY!
All it takes is one bloody kiwi to plunge all discussion into the gutter.
... the list goes on ...
Australia won the Rugby World Cup, Cricket World Cup, Netball World Cup
Olympics (NZ got one pissy gold medal - that's it)
Go ahead, brag about the America's Cup, really. Please stop wasting bandwidth on our brand new super pipe.
Emu
EEEp, cats urine that stuff!
Coopers now they can make some beer, and Hahn Ice is pretty damn smooth!
How every version of MICROS~1 Windows(TM) comes to exist.
Do the following really mean anything? SCSA MCP CCSA CCNA
--I'm not actually after an answer!
You can live in more freedom without guns.
It is kind of late for that now isnt it?
In an ideal world where no one has guns thats true, this however is *NOT* an ideal world.
There are documented cases of towns with near 100% gun ownership (albeit small) that have virtually no violent type crimes.
Jeremy
Dont forget New Zealand!! the cable is 50% owned by a New Zealand company (telecom New Zealand), with New Zealand gaining the same benefits as Australia. Looking at the story submitted by an australian, and the high ranking comments in this story, it appears that this fact has been lost by readers. Australasia means more than just Australia - New Zealand and Australia. Readers might want to check out the facts where it even says the cable will be managed in New Zealand. New Zealand owns you.
A fiber can carry most anything you throw at it. Modern fiber optic systems use "Dense Wavelength Division Multiplexing", or DWDM, which is a fancy term for "several signals on one fiber, each using its own color, and a prism at each end to split things up".
In order to reach the press release bandwidth, you'd need to toss an OC-192 on every possible wavelength of every fiber in the cable. Riiight. Keep in mind that these beasts are managed by corporations, which are political by their very nature. Efficiency is not their strong point. Also remember that this whole network was designed for circuit-based telecommunications traffic, not the packets most Slashdotters are familiar with. The process of making the twain meet is not a straightforward one.
Most telco networks don't run at anywhere near 100% utilization. Admittedly, wet cable is expensive stuff, so it's not often wasted. But if anyone believes that the ring could carry that amount of traffic NOW, all I can say is, stick to your software and avoid telco networks, for everyone's benefit.
Furthermore, fiber of this sort doesn't directly affect the internet. You don't simply jam a transcontinental fiber into your Ethernet card, folks. Packet and circuit networks don't get along with each other. First, you cram your packets into an ATM stream, then you wrap the ATM data in a SONET transport layer. If you're using a really big ATM switch, you might be dealing with as much as an OC-48's worth of bandwith in one chunk here. But we're not done yet...
See, you don't want to plug that OC-48 straight into the fiber, because then what would happen when you want to add more? So you're going to use the signals coming from your routers as tributaries to feed a big honkin' optical terminal like an OC-192. All the SONET payloads from the various tributary interfaces will be concatenated and shot out the high speed side. The lasers in said terminal will be tuned to a particular wavelength, and used to feed a DWDM coupler. Finally, the multicolored signal will head to the beach and go for a swim. Several Erbium-doped amplifiers later, (search for EDFA and do some reading!) the signal emerges in another continent and the whole process reverses itself.
Keep in mind that any one company probably doesn't buy bandwidth in chunks larger than OC-12. Your packets will move more freely, yes, but nobody's gonna be seeing 120 Gigabits any time soon. The amount of paperwork, and the sheer number of companies that're involved in simply setting up one circuit, is phenomenal.
Oh, and as far as survivability goes, that's old news. SONET was designed from the ground up to incorporate a redundant ring architecture. The data's always transmitted over two fibers at once, and the receiving device picks the cleaner of the two incoming streams. Network planners are careful to route the two paths diversely, so no one failure can bring down the ring. Ideally, someone can backhoe an entire fiber conduit and not knock down any traffic because every ring served by that conduit was ALSO served by another one on the other side of town. Ditto goes for undersea cables.
I'm this close to setting up a little site to introduce computer geeks to telco concepts, so y'all don't keep swallowing these press releases whole. Anyone wanna help?
Telstra still has to cover the cost of whatever you download - so the charges do make it onto your bill. Why do you think it's capped at 512kb downstream? They can't afford for you to be using more than that - which explains why on the uncapped downstream plans, you have to pay if you use extra bandwidth.
Drag n' Drop DVD Recommendations
Actually, it's not that much bandwidth. Assuming a normal 16QAM signal (and that's being rather conservative), you get roughly 4 bits/Hz. Therefor, 1 Gbps is roughly 250 MHz. One TV channel is roughly 6 MHz, so this is only about 40 TV channels. One satellite (C band) is 26 transponders, or half the needed bandwidth.
Looked at another way: 250 MHz bandwidth at 26 GHz is a Q of 100.
www.eFax.com are spammers
Can we please have a Battlenet server back in Australia now?
--
Rare Window - free your photos
For the record, Fosters is made in Canada. It's a good beer by USA standards, but as another poster noted, Aussies don't actually drink it.
***
Accoring to my ping times the southern cross link is not currently operational. I guess they are configuring routers right this secound. Both teltra's and the Optus's (the major backbones of australia)ping time are about the same. They havn't changed since June which clearly indicates that the southern cross link is not active. So where the hell is the southern cross link? I gather that article is not entirely true. It may be build but not operational.
No more crappy coffee pot cams for me!
:-)
Now I can see koalas and kangoroos go about their daily lives eating the euycaliptis trees and bouncing around carelessly. A whole new avenue of NET entertainment has come my way!!!!
happy happy joy joy
Lemure, wtf! Don't you mean Lemur?
Im pretty sure the definition of meter is 1/1,000,000 (one-millionth) of the distance from the equator to the north pole.
hiltop
It's a shame that Australia's primary telecommunications company that owns the largest public cable and copper infrastructure has pricing plans that restrict download and upload speeds. Optus with it's not-so-wide pipe had put in place an end-user agreement on incoming data on it's alleged non-restricted pricing plans. With this new pipe to the US, will more leniency be allowed for download-heavy users?? I think not.
Oiii!
The rest of australiasia (including NEW ZEALAND (remember we won the AMERICAS CUP twice)) is also part of the Southern Cross Cable, and it was in part financed by our bloody monopoly telephone company too. One entry point into this part of the world is in Auckland, and there is a link back to Sydney to complete the loop.
It is a good thing (tm) too.
"The question of whether a computer can think is no more interesting than that of whether a submarine can swim" -EWD
"The question of whether a computer can think is no more interesting than that of whether a submarine can swim" -EWD
Correction make that post 74.
Ok now I remember I am insane.
Good: Everything is normal.
134340: I am not a number. I am a free planet!
Now the SCCN (Southern Cross) is up and running,
this is in-accurate. My current employer was the landing station for the Sourthern Cross network.
Our station in Nedona Beach, Oregon.USA. We are building more capacity as this is written also.
See http://www.wcicable.com for our company.
A bigger step forward would be for the US Backbone providers to come up with an equitable cost arrangement.
Drag n' Drop DVD Recommendations
Given the phenomenal amount of money Japan spends on this sort of thing, surely Japan (and for that matter South Korea) would ensure that they've got more than adequate bandwidth?
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a rigged demo
--Andy Finkel (J. Klass?)
You do realize that if you post to a slashdot article that you had moderated against, all your moderation is undone?
I can't wait until Antartica gets connected; then I can set up shop there, and live in a censorship-free utopia! Well, perhaps that's mostly what Australia is...
Sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast.
Wizard of Oz demands faster connection due to nationwide slowdown! Dorothy's nude photos falted.
Given that the Southern Cross fibre is a joint venture betweeen Optus, Telecom NZ and MCI (ie. the competition) it makes sense that the it's not used.
That said it still doesn't explain the fscked up route the packet takes.
When it absolutely positively has to be there.
I wouldn't drink it if I had a choice though, not when Tasmania is putting out fine lagers like James Boags and Cascade.
When it absolutely positively has to be there.
I would prefer a situation of bad legislation being ignored to bad legislation wreaking havoc by enforcing it.
There is the possibility of selective enforcement. Nobody is getting punished so everybody does it. But if the State, the judge or the local boss dislikes you, they can use the law against you.
__
__
Men with no respect for life must never be allowed to control the ultimate instruments of death.
GW Bu
Why don't we just use this measurement on /. from now on?
So you could pretty much transfer everything on Napster over there in about 43 seconds.
1 128Kbps MP3 ~= 5MB
I dont understand why a huge company would go through such incredible effort and cost to set up a redundant fiber cable setup and only use 4 and 3 strands at a time. When the military base I work at was wired, they just ran 72 strands everywhere, since you just never know.
Is there something I'm missing?
lilnobody
What's that? He's already there?? And if he wasn't, you wouldn't take him back anyway??! Curse you Australians and the wombats you rode in on!!!
Sean
I Moderated this as Informative and it got marked as Funny.
Moderation Totals:Interesting=1, Funny=1, Total=2.
I don't get the joke.
134340: I am not a number. I am a free planet!
If you want a really nice Australian beer, try Crown Lager, James Boag's Premium Lager, or some of the range of Coopers beers.
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a rigged demo
--Andy Finkel (J. Klass?)
Just remember that: 70 ms is a latency, not a speed.
"Speeds up to 70mph" makes sense; "Speeds up to 70ms" does not.
Maybe I should have been more clear on this one; I had thought the quote would be enough.
---
pb Reply or e-mail; don't vaguely moderate.
pb Reply or e-mail; don't vaguely moderate.
Well, maybe now I can get good download speeds for music from my fave band in Papua New Guinea, although one could also get it from fan sites in New Zealand.
... gotta download lots of them ...
Oh, wait, it's not just for Oz - it serves a whole bunch of countries down there.
Penguin pics
Will in Seattle
It's so Ozzies and Kiwis can download tons of stuff from the good old USA. Yup, it's a big fat pipe with plenty of curl and lots of air ... no Yanks globbin' it up yet, either!
Will in Seattle
The "terrestrial connection" between Brookvale and Alexandria looks huge on the map but is listed as 31 km.
Hands in my pocket
ummmm ok, EM radiation travels at 3e8 m/s The distance is 20,000km or 2e7 metres 2e7/3e8 = 0.06666 seconds or 66 millisecs. Packets can't travel faster than light (yet!)
And the people shall be oppressed, every one by another, and every one by his neighbour Isaiah 3:5
Can anyone tell me why the fastest link to the US comes out of Perth ?
Surely the east coast is closer.
This is good now, but what about when this becomes yet "another slow line" ... now you have a nice cable running to america .. that's about it.
Good idea ... works for about 10 years ... then what?
Ignore the "p2p is theft" trolls, they're just uninformed
Some one send me this after the Olympics...
>
> THE FOSTERS AD DURING THE OLYMPICS
>
> I don't have a kangaroo for a pet
> I don't wrestle with crocodiles
> And I don't wear a cork hat
> I fight wars
> But never start wars
> I would rather make peace
> I can wear my country's flag with pride
> I am a rock
> I am the ocean
> I am the island continent
> My brothers are the Smiths, the Wilson's, the
> Santerellis, the
> De Costis, The Wong's and the Jagamarras
> I play football without a helmet
> I like beetroot on my hamburger
> I ride in the front seat of the taxi
> I believe it's a prawn not a shrimp
> I believe the world is round and down under is on
> top
> I believe Australia is the best address on Earth
> And Australians brew the best beer.
>
>
> THE REAL AD
> I ate my pet Kangaroo
> I am shit scared of crocodiles
> And I wear a baseball cap
> I start wars
> But I never fight them
> I would rather get pissed
> I wear another country's flag with pride
> I like to rock
> To Billy Ocean
> I am blind to my incompetence
> My brothers are the Smith's the Wilson's, the Wogs,
> the Lebs,
> the Chinks and the Abo's
> I watch football without a helmet
> I take the beetroot off my hamburgers
> I do runners from taxis
> I believe the world is flat
> And Australia is fucking miles away from anywhere
> I believe Australia has the best address on earth I
> just can't
> afford it
> And Australians brew the best beer on earth
> And that's why we don't drink Fosters..
RedFive jedi_knight111@hotmail.com
...will someone set up http://www.koalase.cx as a new link for the slashdot trolls?
That's largely because my provider is crap, but also because the only usefull way out of the country is by a fat link on the other side of the country. Theres lots of landline to carry traffic, and it seems to get broken a lot. The second route ex-Sydney is oversubscribed, and is useless as a contingency when the main one dies.
I'll be the first to admit scepticism that this thing would ever be completed, but now that it is, the whole world changes for US. A whole bunch of new world-class providers will move down here now, instead of the second rate crap we've had to date.
I find your ideas intriguing and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
A map of Australia's links to the US and the rest of the word is here.
Drag n' Drop DVD Recommendations
But are they laid next to each other?
:).
Even so it reminds me of what the boss of a local ISP (Jaring) said years ago. They had leased two international lines from the Telco and insisted that they be in separate cables.
Somehow one line went down, then the other went down hours later.
He asked the Telco for an explanation and they told him that a trawler broke one cable, then apparently a few hours later broke the next one
And so it's scary that the Gov of my country (Malaysia) is still interested in transmitting power from Bakun Dam, East Malaysia to West Malaysia using undersea cables in the South China Sea. One idiot trawler or two and - nationwide blackout.
Cheerio,
Link.
The rate @ which techtonic plates are like inches per yr.... and i can imagine that they have calculated for.... and this is not like a cable you are running from your telephone ...next you will be saying that because the continents are moving slowly that in a million yrs that cable will be useless.... i mean they are still using calbes that they ran during the early 1900's.... so think that the cable is safe.... and 70ms is a great speed for that distance ... i mean ... there are alot of optical repeaters along that routre...because as far as i know the max distance for fiber is 1400 KM.... so you are going to so a bit of speed over that time as well as switching latency ....
There's no indication whether Telstra will
:)
be leasing bandwidth from CWO. That will
be an interesting turnaround.
I bet they have a "special" price
This is a Kiwi venture, the fact that Oz is gettting access is incidental. Note that many Oz Internet users alread get their access through Kiwi ISP's, such as Auckland's IHUG.
Now we've got a milestone we can use to see if http://internettrafficreport.com/ actually works.
Hmmm... n o change yet...
I've been posting on the net since 1994 and I still haven't come up with a good sig!
Light slows down when it is traveling in something other than a vacuum. I don't know off hand exactly how much, it depends on the cable, but your time should be higher.
Australian for "More Porn"
54% Slashdot Pure
Southern Cross Cables, or, if you prefer to bypass the Macromedia slash crap: Southern Cross Cables Front Page
I find your ideas intriguing and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
They finally replaced the Tin-Can-And-String(tm)(c) link to GEO with something better.
"If ignorance is bliss, may I never be happy.
-- Veni, vidi, dormivi
whats wrong with that? the majority of content still flows out of the US. 70 msec to get half-way around the globe ain't half bad. if every connection was this good, we could theoreticaly never have latencies higher than that.