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XBox Tidbits
Kurt from Joystick101 sent in linkage to a report of a presentation on the XBox which shows things like the molding process, hardware layout, involved developers and more. idcmp sent in something a little stranger: its a letter allegedly from nintendo talking about an un-named company (obviously microsoft) and the affect they are having on the industry. No clue if its real, but it sure looks like it might be.
- A.P.
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* CmdrTaco is an idiot.
"Remember when the U.S. had a drug problem, and then we declared a War On Drugs, and now you can't buy drugs anymore?"
Frankly, I don't care if Microsoft is pure evil or how they promote their hardware in this particular case. I am sick and tired of having console hardware come out in Japan first and six to twelve months later in the US even though the US constitutes a significantly larger portion of the market.
Yes they can charge more in Japan and yes they do recoup back some of their costs, but I doubt there aren't certain sections of the US (silicon valley, new york, LA, etc) which wouldn't pay the exact same amount if not more.
One thing I can be assured of is that with Microsoft's existing manufacturing and distribution channels, that little Xbox will be sitting on the shelves at my local electronics store waiting for me when it launches.
Of course this may seem wrong and evil, but I'm come on. I feel especially sorry for those in Europe who sometimes have to wait even longer.
Of course, that's just my opinion, I could be wrong.
The world is neither black nor white nor good nor evil, only many shades of CowboyNeal.
The PS2 isn't disappointing because of poor game selection, it's been a retail disappointment because STILL, many months after its launch, you can hardly find them in the stores -- there has been slightly better availability in the last month, but you still pretty much never see them. They'd have sold more had they had more.
You know, It just makes me wonder why the xbox is drawing so much attention. From the pictures in the article...looks kind of like a compaq mini desktop system. What will this new game console provide that I don't already have on my pc that I'm using right now?
Every game that comes out for it will be ported right over to the pc and windows, no wait time since the xbox uses directx. Its like buying a box exclusivly for playing games. I just don't see any point to buying a console for games that is not upgradable and will be way overpriced. If you have a computer the xbox is reduntant since my computer can do what it can and more. Not only that I can upgrade my computer as needed.
I'll stick to playstation for a game console and my pc for the other games.
If ignorance is bliss, the world is full of blissful people
well, I've been holding off on getting a ps2 since I looked at the specs and realized it isn't actually finished yet. I figure around September it should be about ready. What I do like about it is that it also plays the ps1 games also. Unlike nintendo where you have to have each console on each level to play the games for that level..nes, snes, n64, cube...I can have one ps2 and play ps1 or ps2 games. Right now I haven't seen any good games for ps2, but its new and the good games haven't really been done on it yet. But if you concider that people who don't have a ps1 can have a ps2 and get the best of both worlds. Even though the ps2 has some flaws at least they have made some effort not to ignore their current customers by making a new box with no ability to play previous version games.
From a marketing standpoint this also makes sense since there are allot of good games out for the ps1, so having a ps2 isn't that bad since your not limited to just ps2 games. The cube won't have a giant collection of n64 games to fall back on when its out.
If ignorance is bliss, the world is full of blissful people
you know, if the ps2 is so horrible, then why do they still sell out very quickly in just about every store that gets them? And since most stores in my area will not sell you just a ps2 (unless they have marked it up to $400) but you have to buy games and a service plan with it. And still they sell.
As for great ps2 games...I'm sure they are in the works. Sony did some wierd things in their graphics chip desing and choice. So programmers need some time to learn to use it right.
If ignorance is bliss, the world is full of blissful people
Final fantasy doesn't run on my computer, at least not for a while. There are quite a few games that run on ps1/ps2 that doesn't run on my computer. I do like some of the cool games squaresoft has made and will make. But would I buy a ps2 to do my web browsing? No. I think the difference is that sony, sega, and nintendo are game machines that are not directly transferable to my computer. If I were to make a directx game then not only would it work on pc's it would work on computers also.
People buying a game console that isn't based on a pc system gets them for the games that will never be available on their pc without an emulator. This isn't so for xbox.
If ignorance is bliss, the world is full of blissful people
Anyone can see that Nintendo should be worried right about now.
Yes, but nintendo has allot of the younger market with their younger kid oriented games. As long as they keep making those they will be fine. Just go to a store that has allot of games and look through the n64 section and the ps1 section. The n64 has allot of young kid games, the ps has more teen/adult oriented games.
If ignorance is bliss, the world is full of blissful people
If you don't like MS, just come out and say it, don't pussyfoot around the issue.
ok...I don't like M$. But I am quite fond of windows 2000. Although not perfect it is massivly improved and almost stable.
The PS2 and Xbox are identicle in terms of end result except the Xbox has a few more features
I have to disagree here...ps2 and the nintendo cube would be identical but the xbox and my home computer are more in terms of the same thing. My whole point on the issue is that ps2 is a game concole that is harder to emulate, and the xbox will not even require emulation. Some brilliant hacker will have a program out to run the xbox version of games on a pc in no time. If I wanted to buy a propriatary box I'd probably buy a dell, or a gateway. If I really wanted to throw away my money I'd get a compaq or an hp computer. (I love hp hardware, but not thier computers) The xbox is just a small computer in a small plastic box that runs a version of windows. I have that, but mine also can run linux, or bsd, or os/2 (not that I would want to) or any other os that runs on a intel architecture.
If ignorance is bliss, the world is full of blissful people
you must live in a bad area, the local electronics boutique has about 25 ps2 games on the shelves. And if M$ waits too long to get the xbox out then the really good ps2 games will be out and the ps2 will be set in its market. Besides, sony makes more than the ps2, just like m$ makes something other than the xbox. So sony will not go away if the ps2 were to fail, which doesn't seem likely.
If ignorance is bliss, the world is full of blissful people
yep, I agree. Thats why I won't waste my money on one...will spend it on a better video card when I need one
If ignorance is bliss, the world is full of blissful people
I haven't seen a great game yet.
Then you probably haven't checked out SSX from Electronic Arts. That game is incredible, and even the people who watch it being played get an adrenaline rush.
Maybe you should look a little harder.
And you know why they aren't? Because they've already got a system out there to sell, and they don't want to kill sales of it! Microsoft has no such worry.
I would disagree with you there. I think the rise of the latest generation of game consoles is one of the biggest factors killing the home PC market. And that translates into fewer sales of Windows.
As a former PC game junkie, I just gave up on the whole thing after years of $1-2K PC upgrades, hundreds of dollars on new video cards, etc. I can spend $300 and get cutting edge stuff from a new console. And the games these days are damn good, and many are direct ports of PC games.
Home PC sales are shriveling, and with them the PC game market. It seems to be dying a slow death with all the canceled titles and failing or converting PC game companies.
Microsoft's entry into the console market is purely defensive, becaues people aren't buying new 1GHZ machines (and copies of Windows) to play PC games, and they sure don't need to upgrade for the newest versions of Quicken or Office.
The last I heard (read cared to read) about the Xbox it would include an NVidia chip and an AMD CPU. Looks like an "Intel Inside" sticker on the rightmost heatsink. Seems like the specs change a little bit too much.
Also, what is a crappy Western Digital disk doing in there? Looks like a low-end PC with commodity parts. I have seen "micro" PC's before and they are nothing new.
But then again, I will probably never buy a game console.
Wealth is the product of man's capacity to think. -Ayn Rand
We will finally see some good games for the PlayStation 2 later this year.
I know of a few that will definitely be PS2 killer app games:
Final Fantasy X
Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons of Liberty
Virtual Fighter 4
Grand Turismo 3
Raymond in Mountain View, CA
Maybe you should try reading it as a paragraph, rather than sentence by sentence... He said that the first 9 months of the year represent over 50% of SALES, not over 50% of the year as you imply there... He's saying 50% of their sales occure Jan-Sep and the other 50% Oct-Dec (the holiday season)...
When IBM was in trouble with the government for violation of anti-trust law, one of the remedies that was put in place was that no marketing could be done for products that did not exist.
,and promoting one that has a year or more left before anyone can get their hands on it. I think it's fine for Microsoft to allow rumors and speculation about their Xbox, and even advertise on their own turf. But they shouldn't be seeking disciples on Nintendo's turf until they have something to follow.
A common anti-competitive practice is to strangle a market by hyping up a "future" product. It's easy to make it look like a killer-product when it's still vapor. Unfortunately, when the time comes to release, it is delayed or shipped with fewer features than promised.
In the meantime, everyone has stopped buying the real products in anticipation of the promise of things to come. And when they fail to deliver, nobody is forced to buy it, but the damage has already been done.
There's a difference between promoting a product that is a month or two from hitting the market
Dacels Jewelers can't be trusted.
The normal usage of affect is in the verb form. From www.dict.org:
Affect \Af*fect"\ ([a^]f*f[e^]kt"), v. t. [imp. & p. p. Affected; p. pr. & vb. n. Affecting.] [L. affectus, p. p. of afficere to affect by active agency; ad + facere to make: cf. F. affectere, L. affectare, freq. of afficere. See Fact.]
1. To act upon; to produce an effect or change upon.
As might affect the earth with cold heat. --Milton.
The climate affected their health and spirits. --Macaulay.
The less common noun forms of affect:
Affect \Af*fect"\, n. [L. affectus.]
Affection; inclination; passion; feeling; disposition. [Obs.] --Shak.
Affect \Af*fect"\, n. (Psychotherapy)
The emotional complex associated with an idea or mental state. In hysteria, the affect is sometimes entirely dissociated, sometimes transferred to another than the original idea.
In comparison with the noun form of effect:
Effect \Ef*fect"\, n. [L. effectus, fr. efficere, effectum, to effect; ex + facere to make: cf. F. effet, formerly also spelled effect. See Fact.]
3. In general: That which is produced by an agent or cause; the event which follows immediately from an antecedent, called the cause; result; consequence; outcome; fruit; as, the effect of luxury.
The effect is the unfailing index of the amount of
the cause. --Whewell.
Yes, go ahead and mod me down for being an off topic wanker.
All video game makers advertise ahead of time. Hell, Sony has already started whispering to the press about the PS3, and just because Nintendo isn't buying store space (And you know why they aren't? Because they've already got a system out there to sell, and they don't want to kill sales of it! Microsoft has no such worry) doesn't mean that they aren't making sure that the GameCube gets its own share of buzz. Your lame conspiracy theories weren't even good analogies.
Cheers,
But like you just said, "Right now I haven't seen any good games for PS2." That was my point. If I had a PS1, the ability to play my old games is a very strong selling point. But if there are no good games yet, why not keep using my PS1 until PS2 does have some compelling games, drops their price due to the coming competition, irons out all those problems they've been having, or one of the two new systems looks sufficiently sweet that I move to one of them?
(Glad to see some people were able to understand what I was trying to say despite the hideous grammar of my original post.)
Cheers,
Hey, I'm not saying that they people who bought it are dummies and should repent for their sins or anything. But after all the hype about the PS2, don't you think the reaction to it has been pretty flat?
I don't do too much gaming, and when I do, it's on my PC (I haven't owned a console since the original NES). I've got a kickass home theater system now, though, and I'd like to see how the new generation consoles make use of it. It doesn't matter a whole lot to me whether or not it's also available for the PC as long as it looks great and sounds great snd is fun. If the XBox/Nintendo don't come out with much interesting, I'll probably end up not getting any of them.
Cheers,
Nearly everything about the PS2 has screams "failure." When you look at the system, what about it or what games for it make you so eager to have one now and at the current price? I haven't seen a great game yet. I've heard nothing but problems about his thing and have no problem whatsoever waiting until the XBox or Nintendo's entry is out there to have at least one of the new generation systems to compare it to.
Cheers,
Although Nintendo makes a good point that it can't be wise to tell customers to not buy the stuff in stock because there's something better coming later, it's worth remembering that M$ has deep pockets. Don't think the M$ propaganda at the retailers showed up for free, M$ paid a lot of $$$ to get it there, although they can well afford it. Working at a video game company for a year introduced me to the strange concept that the games you see on a retailer's shelf arent there because the retailer thinks they will sell but because the distributor/publisher paid to get them there. It also costs $$$ to get your game mentioned in advertisements that the retailers publish. And retailers basically make just as much if not more $$$ selling ads, endcaps, and prominent placement on the shelves as they do from product sales. So when $$$ shows up with a big wad of cash, not only is it business as usual for the retailer, but they could still make money even though their sales might drop.
I am Jack's writable stack pointer.
I always wonder why a group of grown-ups on higher-than-average salaries want to bitch about which console will be best, fastest, make them look hard with their mates etc. but really all these bits of hardware do the same thing! Dreamcasts, Playstations and N64s are all `silly money' now, even when you're paying in UK pounds like I am. I mean, you hardly need to lay out any cash at all for the system, and the games are all largely the same price. If there are more than a few games you're willing to splash out on for a particular console, why not just buy them all and bitch about which is the better game?
Most of the discussion even a few months into a new console's life (this goes for the PS2 in spades) is centered around such-and-such a feature of a console not facilitating good games, or distribution problems, or publisher problems. The hardware is all pretty much without question really exciting and interesting across the board (multiple processors, exciting graphics chips etc., a real trip if you're only used to programming PCs) if you're genuinely interested in that, but that's pretty much by the by. They're all capable of giving exactly the same amount of fun, and fabulous, jaw-dropping games are increasingly not necessarily technical feats any more. So at the end of the day, it really, really doesn't matter what hardware is in these boxes-- all we're arguing about is the hype, surrounding them: unreleased consoles are great for this.
Matthew @ Bytemark Hosting
What I wonder is why people would buy an XBox rather than a PC, other than the fact that a gaming console is typically easier to use than a PC...
I just can't wait to see the price M$ will want for one of those units.....
The "9 months, which is more than 50% of the year," probably refers to sales volume. The last three months of the year likely represent the other 50% or so, due to holiday shopping.
As for the spelling errors- you'd be surprised at how many director and VP level executives can barely craft an English sentence. At the company I work for, (a major tv/movie/web conglomerate) we have exactly ONE proofreader to intercept the veritable torrent of press releases and marketing communications the execs unleash onto an unsuspecting public. Stuff usually makes it out to the puiblic after a spellcheck, and nothing more.
Marc Siry || interactive media professional, motorcycle enthusiast ||
Man, I wonder if there will ever be a time where people get together with their consoles and tv sets to have a LAN party instead of lugging PC's.
Yeah, lugging around a TV would be SO much easier than all that heavy computer gear.... =]
Karma: Dyn-o-mite!(mostly affected by Jimmy Walker reading your comments)
---- El diablo esta en mis pantalones! Mire, mire!
I see hte Xbox ships with a P3, any idea if they're still including the PSN number with that? Or if there's an disable feature in it's setup? Thanks!
3000 dead over past 2 years, still no free Palestinians, still
So is Microsoft going with the traditional business model of selling the machine at a loss and making it up on the games? If not, exactly how the hell do they expect to compete? I dont care if there are more games for it (which there will be if you can use directX to code for it) I'm not going to pay PC prices for a console and then pay exorbidant prices for games too.
How we know is more important than what we know.
Man, I wonder if there will ever be a time where people get together with their consoles and tv sets to have a LAN party instead of lugging PC's.
How we know is more important than what we know.
If you don't like the bias /. has, go someplace more to your taste.
Because we all know the mainstream media is pure and unbiased, right?
Cheers,
Rick Kirkland
Is real. I red about it somewhere else too. I think it is naive for Nintendo to think that putting posters and crap in the stores is going to hurt thier sales. The video gaming public is aware enough of the X-Box, and like most gamers, are intruiged about it.
If I was in the market for a game system right now, it wouldn't be a N64. Rather, I'd wait to see what the X-Box and Game Cube can do. Then I would make my decision. Gamers are smart... putting a poster in a store is not going to sway them. They will make the choice based on what they feel to be the best after they evaluate the competition.
It sounds to me like Nintendo is getting worried, but lets not turn this into a Microsoft bash.
Just goes to prove one of my theories of console development: if upgrades are mandatory or even highly recommended for some games to be playable or enjoyable, then the console will fail.
When I first heard reports of the 64DD for the N64, I said "Wow, guess Nintendo didn't learn from Sega's mistakes- they should cut their losses and start working on their next console" ; of course, all of my friends were looking at me crazy, as the 64 was seen, in their eyes, as the best console around.. but I knew that it would be a relative failure.
-bugg
It is well known that the console makers are trying to position their next gen consoles as, in essence, the household "computer/internet" box. The makers such as Sony, Nintendo, et. all have come right out and stated exactly that.
Actually, Nintendo has come right out and stated exactly that they do not want to be mistaken for a set-top appliance, and that is why they opted for the Gamecube name...
"I find that the harder I work, the more luck I seem to have." -- Thomas Jefferson
Sounds like Nintendo's been trying to spread some anti-MS FUD and they're running scared that they will be irrelevant.
--
OliverWillis.Com
OliverWillis.Com
An Operative with an Agenda
What whining! The only way to beat MS at this game is to make AND ship something better with the same level of marketing. BE better and SHOUT about it. Can't afford to do that? Then go sniveling off into the corner.
Even if the Nintendo article is a fake is does point out that the retail channels need to exist and they need pull-through support from the vendors AND the customers.
Of course, this gets neglected by vendors like MS and Apple. Time and again the marketdroids keep forgetting that someone has to actual work in the retail store and SELL the damned stuff. It's not enough to just have a "good product" and expect the world to beat a path to your online store.
But the computer industry keeps fucking this up, time after time after time. Yet it survives. Go figure.
read this. explains everything (as much as they can)
http://cube.ign.com/news/32525.html
If what you say is true..... then I still don't care.
The problem for Nintendo is that they don't want to make or deal with new technology.
Even if this isn't a bona fide Nintendo memo, much of the rhetoric in the letter matches what Nintendo has done and said in the past. That is, at the very least, this is a really good satire. This company is much more evil than Microsoft and less subtle.
On the hardware side, their agenda has been lock users into one platform (the nintendo one, of course!) with dated, decade old graphics systems, stone age media capabilities (they were willing to barricade their users into a quaint, expensive cartridge system to protect their bottom line from piracy) and declare everyone else (sony, sega and now MS) charlatans and looters. Instead of releasing new systems, they've chosen lame gimmick tactics like releasing Pokemon and clear color cases.
I'm not sure exactly when either N64 or Gameboy was released, but it seems like the N64 is at least 5 years old, and the Gameboy is at least 10 years old. I don't know about the rest of you (and perhaps this is just a mental disorder plaguing the computer world), but it's really hard for me to use even a two or three year old machine without considering it to be a dinosaur. The idea that Nintendo expects to keep customers choosing their hardware over competitors' is completely insane.
On the software side, they've been happy to beat every character they've had to death. There are very few new games or characters that come out of the Nintendo house. Most of the games recently released for the Nintendo platform are variation or sequels on previous sales successes (pikachu, mario, zelda). I can't think of too many game genres (sport, adventure, party, puzzle, etc) in which they haven't made a Mario or Pikachu version.
In addition, they have had extremely poor licensing relations with third party development houses. Look at how many well established game companies were happy to flee Nintendo for Sony when the Playstation was released. Only a handful of game companies still regularly release games for the N64. Of those that do (like EA for instance), much of time it's only because it's an already released game that they can easily port from another platform like the PSX or PC. As a result, most of the non-Nintendo games for the N64 are available on other platforms.
Even though Microsoft and Sony aren't the most benevolent corps in the world, I would strongly urge anyone who cares about game design and game technology to not buy Nintendo products. It should be woefully apparent that Nintendo retired anyone designing or engineering a long time ago.
Also, consider picking up a Dreamcast. Sega is liquidating them right now, and available for it are a number of great, inexpensive games that have equal or better graphics and gameplay than any of the current PS2 games. For instance, Phantasy Star Online is a pretty solid multiplayer rpg (imagine a Diablo II that doesn't suck) and Samba de Amigo is easily the craziest party game I've ever played.
I don't understand what idiot moderator marked that as a Troll. He's making a very valid point. You might disagree with it but that doesn't make it a Troll. A troll is a post which intentionally lies in order to provoke a reaction. If I get my hands on the 13-year-old who moderated this one I would like to ground them for a week.
Mmmm.. Donuts
In terms of what? Specs? Well, agreed, some of the numbers are higher. Great. If that's all that counts for you, then have fun with your benchmark optimizer 'XBox'.
What is more important for me is the less than impressive number of japanese developers. Yes, MS did list the Namco, Konami, Capcom... logos. But there is not much coming out by them. See this article about Konami for example.
As for me, the Dreamcast is the best console currently out.
That's the point I think the letter is trying to make. Nintendo want to come across as the guys (and girls) looking out for the retailers and the industry, and big bad 'Company X' are just storming in for the money...
Sorry, I know anti-MS posts on Slashdot really hurt, and are really rare, but sometimes people need to see the truth, as horrible as it may be. I'm sorry that I caused so much pain on my Slashdot brothers and sisters by making a comment that goes against Microsoft, and I hope you can forgive me, I was just trying to do the right thing....
Also, Nintendo have profited on the N64. Sure, hardware sales are lower then the PSX's, but software sales... Zelda was MASSIVE when it came out, and Nintendo has alot less piracy they have to 'compete' with.
Sure, Pokemon has help, but Nintendo were hardly a poor company before it, and would have survived without the fad.
The GameCube optical disks are 1.5G each. Your beloved Dreamcast GD-ROMs are 1G each. Who has the space problem exactly. Yes, in the previous generation Nintendo had problems due to an expencive and small medium, however, now, 1.5G is not small, espically from a company that doesn't particularly like FMV. However, if a developer needs more space they can use more then one disk. Simple!
I haven't actually seen a real advantage of Mini-DVDs over regular DVDs
One of the advantages of the GCN's optical disks are, as you said, less piracy. It's not a mini-DVD, it's a proprietory format developed by Matushita(sp?), and, yes, will be difficult top copy. Do you think 3rd parties will be happy with Nintendo for making their console use a medium that cannot easily be pirated? Of course they will, less piracy is more profit to them. The PS1 was very much the pirates toy, and give it two years and the PS2 will be the same.
And then, there is size. It's a GAME console. Smaller disks are easier to hold around, move around, and smaller to package. There has already been talk long-term of the NEXT Game Boy being theoretically able to use a format similer to the GNC disks due to their portible size. Size does matter :-)
The whole fact that only a few games will come out for N64 this year, while games *continue* to come out for PS1
Perhaps, but I don't LIKE any of the games on the PS1... at all. I love the 12 or so games I have on my N64. When I bought a CD-RW a few months back, my youngest sister (12 year old) actully half-jokingly said to me that I should buy a PS just to copy the games. Nice to see 12 year olds with that mentality... Anyway, like I said to her, what's the point on spending $100 on a console with no games we'd want, even if they were 'free'? She loves the N64, spends more time on it then me now (and she's not really into the Pokemon scene, I own no Pokemon games).
Sure, alot of people like the hundreds of games on the PS, well, you can have them, I'm much happier with what Nintendo has to offer.
I bought a Nintendo 64 the day it came out for close to $400 (with a game and controller)
Same, and 2 months later when the price dropped $100 Nintendo Australia offered me a free game. I got a copy of Mario Kart 64 for free. That is a company that cares about their customer satisfaction!
Today, I own a Dreamcast, which I love.
And you're complaining about the software support of the Nintendo 64? At least is wasn't DOA. The DC was doomed from the beginning, the only people that don't agree with that were the people that wasted their money on them. You lost. Deal with it. No-one would have guessed that the N64 would outlive the DC, would they...
Now I feel burned.
Why, because they didn't make their console the #1 seller for you?
and I'm selling my N64 and game collection on eBay.
Oh well. I was happy with the two Zelda games, and the classic Super Mario 64 just to name a couple of games I have, and still have alot of fun with 4 player Goldeneye, Mario Kart, F-Zero X, Perfect Dark and more, but if that's what you'd like that's fine.
Enjoy your future with the Dreamcast. If you like new console software you'll be buying a PS2, a GCN, or a Xbox within 12 months.
#1: The Japanese market is bigger.
#2: They are JAPANESE companies. How would you feel if some US company launched in Japan first?
#3: 12 Months? What console was that?!
Believe it or not, the US market isn't the most important to Nintendo, Sega and Sony just because you are in it. If you really want to stick up for the American way, for apple pie, fight off the east, then buy an Xbox, and prey it fares better then every other console out of the USA.
I feel especially sorry for those in Europe who sometimes have to wait even longer.
Yeah, I'm in Australia, and we have around the same release dates as Europe. Yes, it sucks. But I know a country of 19 million with a TV format different (*cough* superior *cough*) to the big two markets that I have to wait, and I also know they are in buiness to make money. Yes, it really sucks. But I guess I'm used to it now, and anyway, I can import if I REALLY want to. Just remember, some of us would love to get US release dates...
Microsoft currently have a 0% share of the video game console industry, and no product on offer at all, and will not until next year*. Yet, they are still sending out advertising aimed at consumers telling them not to buy products avalable NOW but to wait for their eventual product. What do you think the impact of this will be on stores that sell only video games? In displaying the Xbox advertising a retailer is trying to strangle their cashflow for the following 10 or more months. Obviously it would stop people buying products now, and of course that would be a bad thing for the industry.
But do Microsoft care if that would be bad for the industry now. Hell no! Why not? Look at their current market share: 0%. Do you think Microsoft care if they make 20% less profit from a market share ok 0%. Of course not. 20% of nothing is still nothing. Microsoft are attempting to rape the industry now so things are good when they finally get in.
Yes, Nintendo are somewhat biased, yes they have 2 consoles out trying to make profit at the moment. Yes Nintendo have a next generation console and a new handheld coming up that will be out before the Xbox. Yes it IS in Nintendo's interest for stores not to advertise the Xbox. But Nintendo are the old men of the industry, and they can also see that this will cause it serious damage if sales in consoles, not only theirs but the PS2, grind to a halt due to Microsoft FUD advertising. Nintendo don't want some new compnay just strangling the industry.
Back in 1984 with the NES, Nintendo brought the video game market back from the death Atari had caused it, and turned home video games from a fad into an international multibillion dollar industry. Something tells me that they might have SOME idea about what they are talking about.
Before you tell me that this is all bullshit, just ponder this: In the 'Linux Myths' Microsoft said that Linux did not have USB support at a time when their current business operating system was Windows NT 4.0 (also USBless), but said "Windows 2000 will have it, it'll be out soon". They wanted to stop people using Linux because of a product they had not shipped yet. Now they are doing the same to the video game industry.
Also, have a look over at IGNcube here for an interview with Nintendo's vice president of marketing George Harrison all about this very letter. He states that Nintendo won't being in-store advertising of the GameCube until August- two months before it's release. Much better then a year.
Microsoft Xbox: Bringing the blue screen to the living room. With a FREE copy of Photoshop for those post-game touch-up...
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* The Xbox will be delayed, the thing doesn't even have final dev kits out yet. People say that Nintendo's GameCube will delay even though 3rd parties have had final dev kits for months, but have blind faith in Microsoft shipping on time, a company well known for delays and FUD in the past ("Don't get a PS2 or GCN, look what will be out... eventually...").
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And what makes you think you can get it out. The last pic on the first link clearly shows the nVidia chip onboard..
I read slashdot for the articles.
Lesson to microsoft -- gotta get it out soon. If the gamecube comes out first all those console purchases will go to it instead.
Free Techno/Jazz/DNB/MI Music by guys obsessed with monkeys!
The XBox is not a few months from release. The slated release date is in the fall of this year, around October. That's 7 months. And the buzz is that it very well might slip and hit Christmas or, even, early next year. We're talking 7-12 months, not a few.
Marketing should be directed at consumers; making powerplays with distributors two-three quarters from launch is unacceptable. It's one thing to get the word out and get the hype machine started, and it's another to tell consumers to hold on to their cash in a market that suffered loss. I guarantee you that if people held onto their money for a year, PS2 and Nintendo both would start to feel it, and after so long a wait for consumers, if the XBox doesn't fulfill all of the hype? All that MS would have succeeded in doing is damaging the market.
If a corporation is a personhood, is owning stock slavery?
Let me translate this to English. You are saying, "Despite the fact that upon launch the PS2 had an entire library of games available from the PS1, the XBox, upon release, will have more games available for it." Great. Care to back that up with any facts? Has Microsoft shown a single playable demo, yet? Or a non-interactive demo? (That's an honest question, not rhetoric. Have they?) Are you really suggesting that the XBox will have more launch titles than the PS2 has games available? Or were you just throwing in the talk of PS1 games to confuse the reader? It's very difficult to determine what you meant because you apparently are being intentionally misleading in your statement. So a few questions:
Fact is, you have me stumped. Your first paragraph-sentence is so convoluted it appears you're trying to be misleading. Reading it strictly, you are saying, "The XBox will have more launch titles than the PS2 had." Which may or may not be true, but is exactly meanignless: the number and quality of the games available for both systems (well, all three systems) at that time will be what's important, not the number of games available for the XBox compared to the number of games the PS2 had months in advance.
If a corporation is a personhood, is owning stock slavery?
We have the intestinal tracts of herbivores? Give me a break.
Do you know what an appendix is, Veggie nut? It's a vestigial organ, our version of something called a caecum, which you find in herbivores. If you ever dissected a herbivore, you'd know there's not the slightest possibility of mistaking a human appendix for a herbivore caecum. In herbivores, where the organ is still necessary, it's much larger. We don't need one now, because (say it along with me) we are not herbivores.
And let's not even get into dentistry.
Anyone can see that Nintendo should be worried right about now. With the next gen consoles (Saturn, Playstation, N64) they lost a huge amount of groud, with Sony obviously trouncing the competition. They turned a 'geeky' past-time into something that was cool, and as a result Nintendo have got left behind with the kids games they are so often related to (Kirby, Mario, et al). With the X-Box having a big name like Microsoft behind it they are clearly scared that they are going to be finished off like Sega has been.
see hte Xbox ships with a P3, any idea if they're still including the PSN number with that?
It'd be nice for copy control purposes. If too many copies of a game with the same serial number are being played online (such as in Internet multiplayer) on machines with different serial numbers, the game will randomly crash and throw up a PNG file of a BSOD. "Buy original unpirated software and it won't bluescreen on you."
Will I retire or break 10K?
For me, the killer app would be a Sony Playstation I emulator
bleem! is a PlayStation console emulator for Windows and Dreamcast.
If it can do that, I'll consider it over a PS2...
Compatible games look better on bleem! than on PS2.
Until the X-Box can do that,
The PC hardware used for PC bleem! is similar to the PC hardware used in Xbox. The Windows and Direct3D software that bleem! uses is similar to the Windows and Direct3D software that Xbox games use. Therefore, porting bleem! to Xbox should be a breeze.
Will I retire or break 10K?
This is all hype, the real story will be when someone hacks the XBox and gets Linux running on it. Then it will be useful.
What's so compelling about the XBox that someone wishing to buy a console would hangon rather than buy a PS2 right now?
This is a page from any smart corproation's trick book. If I were a shareholder of Microsoft and they just sat around doing nothing to promote their upcoming product (even one that's a few months from release), I wouldn't be happy.
I also suspect that the buying patterns of individuals are a bit different from those of corporations. I'm not sure what the target age group is, but will the younger ones be more likely to use a "wait and see" approach or a "instant gratification" approach?
I don't see many signs of the PS2's sales being impacted (they just hit the 10 million mark ahead of schedule -- and face it, Sony's hype machine was rolling months in advance, too.) Nintendo, whose current console is next to last in market share, doesn't seem to be doing anything to promote their upcoming system. This sounds to me like damage control -- someone just realized a bit late that they're being severely out-marketed. Do you think Nintendo will wait until a week before release to send marketing material to retailers?
Carts was not that bad of a decision. Two words: Load Times. N64 just doesn't have them. I have Blitz 2000 for both N64 and Dreamcast. The N64 gets played because we don't have to wait. I hope the gamecube does better than many dreamcast games in that regard. Certain genres have suffered, but overall the N64 has been and is a great system. Kudos to Nintendo for bringing back 4 controllers on one system (without a multitap) and the analog stick. I think there's a chance that if solid state memory ever has a dramatic decrease in price, carts might return. Admittedly, DVD type storage will always be cheaper per megabyte/gigabyte, but the bandwidth to read the info off the disk will become more and more of an issue.
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SO YOU'RE GOING TO DIE: The Comic for Dealing with Death
For me, the killer app would be a Sony Playstation I emulator. Until the X-Box can do that, I'm probably not buying one. If it can do that, I'll consider it over a PS2...
Seems Sony hasn't learned its own lesson, from the rumors I've been hearing about developing for the PS2. That being as it is... I'm still rooting for Nintendo, myself. Sega should have won, but after the Saturn (remember that) I don't think anyone was taking them too seriously. My theory on Dreamcast is that Microsoft probably pulled an OS/2 maneuver on Sega -- floated a WinCE-based system as a trial balloon and then yanked the rug out from under them when the XBox was announced. The "note from Nintendo", real or not, raises some very valid points. Xbox is getting all this press, and we don't even know how it's going to be recieved by the users. But that's pretty typical marketing, I suppose. The fact is that I suspect Xbox is going to come up a little short -- expect a full Windows implementation on it where none is necessary would be my first bit of warning... /Brian
Slightly ot...
Has anyone yet seen the Pikachu special edition N64? A more blatant example of unnecessary corporate whoring I have never seen...
See, the real fun part of all this is that the thing Nintendo could have done from the start is release a CD-player cartridge and crank up the Baby Indy that powers the thing. Of course, that would mean continuing to rely on SGI instead of IBM (the GameCube uses a PowerPC chip), which doesn't strike me as being good business sense...
/Brian
Let's see what this interview has to say, shall we?
That's disgusting! Hey folks, that should be "came across" or perhaps "came upon". "Came into" is reserved for socks and whatnot (when we're talking about inanimate objects, anyway.)
And when you mod me down, make sure it's "flamebait" or something, not "offtopic". I'm on the topic I'm posting under.
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ALL YOUR KARMA ARE BELONG TO US
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
I would have to agree. Some of those comments like "9 months, which is more than 50% of the year" looked like they were put in because the VP was smoking lots of crack at the time.
Twitter.com/TrentonHyatt
I have 2 other friends that both have psx systems, and we have link cables. We will meet up at a friend's house, and drag over whatever we need. We usually play somewhere that already has 2 tvs, so we just need to bring one.
Multiplayer Destruction Derby is insanely fun, as is DooM. Descent is also fun if you are immune to the motion sickness it can give you.
Time for some tasty Shiner Bock!
ummm, by the time the x-box comes out, the graphics chip it includes will be the cheap alternative. People seem to keep forgetting that this same chip isnt going to be worth as much in 6-12 months. By then nvidia will have already replaced it, or at least speed bumped it. This would be a good idea if the x-box was shipping in 1-2 months though
Time for some tasty Shiner Bock!
The Nintendo letter is absolutely right, the Microsoft Xbox is too far out to be of great importance right now, but Microsoft still wants people to abstain from buying. This is one of their classic tricks. Sow a seed of doubt in people's minds so they don't buy from a competitor. They don't even have to release good product if this strategy succeeds! Some examples:
Microsoft SMS. Versions 1.0 and 1.2 were absolute garbage and hideously behind schedule, but Microsoft kept harping on how fantastic Hermes AKA SMS was and to abstain from buying competing products from Intel, IBM and others. People played it safe and didn't buy from either of these two in favour of an unreleased product. Why make it good when you can prevent people from buying from the competition?
NetPC. Larry Ellison had the computing world abuzz and Microsoft was worried. So together with Intel they announced NetPC -- a thin client PC. People decided to wait on the NC in favour of the NC. Microsoft could then safely kill the product and claim there was no market. Intel actually showed up at our company to demo the NetPC with a gray lunchbox with stickers on the inside printed like circuit boards!!! "This is what it will look like," they said! I was shocked!
And finally a cross-platform operating system like Windows NT. Support a few different processor types long enough to save face, but restrict any good software for them and eventually pull support for all except Intel and Alpha (which they're contractually bound to support).
XBox more of the same? How could you think otherwise...
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Pud wouldn't lie to us right?
RIGHT???
Video game consoles aren't sold with retail-level marketing. They are stacked up in a big pile in WalMart and carried home by mom and dad for birthdays and christmas.
Nintendo understands this and that is why they've continued to sell games through thick and thin for years. Microsoft is falling back on it's hype-machine styled for the IT market. Well guess what? Joe Sixpack and his kids aren't tuned into what people are saying on webboards and usenet.
The only thing that pre-release FUD in the console market accomplishes is that a bunch of 20-30 year olds can wank themselves in public about kids toys. When in fact most of them could afford any or all of the consoles, so it isn't exactly a critical decsion for them, unlike Joe Sixpack's kids. (And besides, if they ever got a girlfriend, they'd find better ways to spend their money).
The last company to try a 'dealer' strategy with video games was Atari with the Jaguar, and that was only because the big retailers still hated their guts from events 10 years in the past. Didn't work too well.
When I hear the word 'innovation', I reach for my pistol.
First, the game sucks. It's a bad Tie Fighter clone from the early 1990's.
But seeing as CmdrTaco like to make stupid statements, I say it's time we rag on him. Why is it that early on when I used to email him, he was always so *angry* and *insipid*? Why when people try to email him now, he doesn't respond? Why doesn't he ever post comments on his own site? Has the thrill of hosting the site lost luster for him, and if so, why doesn't he just hand it to someone else?
Rob seems so enraptured with attending tech shows where he gets to speak, and appearing in Newsweek, that he's forgotten what makes this site so great. Hint: it's not throwing a bias on a story on the front page. It's taking part in the discussion himself, answering email on occasion, and not being so goddamn *mean* to everyone, and everything, that doesn't pique his immediate interest.
- I don't care if they globalize against free speech. All my best free thoughts are done in my head.
Gamers are smart... putting a poster in a store is not going to sway them. They will make the choice based on what they feel to be the best after they evaluate the competition.
Many gamers are young. Young enough to not posess or be allowed to spend $300 without parental input. And unfortunately, parents are going to be swayed easier than informed gamers... If an uninformed parent sees a poster that says wait for the X-Box and they don't see one for the Game Cube (and they don't read the hot gaming sites on the web and spend time speculating like hard-core gamers do), then I think some will be swayed by the MS posters.
So maybe gamers won't be swayed, but the ones holding the cash will be.
The grammar is suspect in my book, not because it is too bad... but because it is too good.
This is more what I would have expected from Nintendo:
I rang, you rang, we all rang for orangutang!
You see? You see? Your stupid minds! Stupid! Stupid!
I'm pretty happy with teh current console market and I'm afraid that anyone who maintains that the market will be better with MS involved has rocks in their head. There is no historical evidence whatsoever to support this assertion.
.. even in Australia where our dollar is doing a MIR, there are more games than you can poke a stick at, Initial game releases are not any more expensive than on any other platform and once they've been around for a while the platinum scheme produces lower prices.
... doh !!!!
.... show me evidence that MS have EVER been interested in developing products that will work with other people's products. And don't bother talking to me about technologies that aren't really here yet or in wide use yet.
... oh well better reinstall the OS again ....
Personally I have a PS. They're fantastic they are cheap
I use a PC all day and the best thing about my console is that I put in the game and turn it on. When I'm finished I just turn it off.
AFAICT the only benefit of a PC for gaming at present is the comms. I can't wait to get online with my playstation and I don't care if it never becomes a receiver for other types of entertainment.
One of the problems with emerging technologies is that everyone seems to get tunnel vision. Just because an online console could theoretically be used for other online entertainment there is no reason it should and plenty of reasons that it shouldn't.
The concept of one box to to do everything is a PC paradigm and it's stupid. Imagine not being able to put the console in another room because it's also the Cable TV decoder or the DVD player or the family email/web device
IMHO the holy grail of future tech should and hopefully will be connectivity and common interfaces so that you can use small different systems that together give you a larger system. If they communicate with each other there will be advantages.
OK. Is this really the same topic I started with with ? Well
Basically MS is so blindly monopolistic they don't even see it and ANYTHING they do has the longer term goal of tying people to their platforms only and destroying any competition.
What's more MS will never make the console simple. If they gain control of the market then in 15 years we'll have consoles that ressemble current PC's rather than consoles ie. wait 15 minutes for MS Console 2010 to load up. Install a 3rd party game (non MS) damn it's not compatible with the latest upgrade of NTC2010, or the system is locking up
OK I'm not saying that the PS is an open standard or anything as stupid. BUT just that if MS are successful in getting into consoles then in 20 years the console market will either be dead OR they'll be so complicated that people will just end up using the equivalent of today's PC.
As a final note. I here a number of people fawning over MS entrance into the console market and suggesting that the current market is monopolistic and that MS will break that up and make it better. NOW most of the people that I know who talk like DO NOT HAVE A CONSOLE. IMO they are morons and should keep their mouths closed until they are actually involved with consoles in some way and can talk with real facts & experience behind them.
Even now, months after the US PS2 launch there are not that many 'GREAT' PS2 games that show off what it is capable of doing.
With regards to the letter, store owners understand that unless your a Pokemon fan you ain't going to go near the Gamecube .. PS2 has been a dissapointment so far .. everything else is 5 years old now .. so you might as well wait.
"No clue if its real, but it sure looks like it might be. "
ya, who cares if its real, right? as long as it bashes microsoft we'll put it up! shit, i should write an article about microsoft being bad and get slashdotted.
come on people, you are journalists now.
NEWS: cloning, genome, privacy, surveillance, and more!
NEWS: cloning, genome, privacy, surveillance, and more!
Obviously? It's that clear cut? Our hands, feet, intestinal tract, and body chemistry are "obviously" that of a herbivore. That's why I stated that there's controversy.
As a sidenote to this: Even if Nintendo's new box doesn't win out, I certainly hope they get in the business of writing software for other boxes. Nintendo knows how to make fun games, even with limited technology, which is something that is unfortunately a dying skill it seems.
It is well known that the console makers are trying to position their next gen consoles as, in essence, the household "computer/internet" box. The makers such as Sony, Nintendo, et. all have come right out and stated exactly that. Does it surprize anyone that Microsoft has developed a strategy to fight this? This is not a new market that Microsoft is entering, but rather it's, at least with the newer consoles, an extension of the battle for the home PC market. By stalling purchases now and introducing an extremely powerful gaming platform soon Microsoft is doing a great job keeping the developers and users in "PC land". I don't fault them whatsoever for it, and I hope it's massively successful.
It is so intriguing when companies like Nintendo and Sony are seen as underdogs or the "good guys" in cases like this. Are you people all on crack or something?
Of course Nintendo is upset about MS stalling new purchases in lieu of the X-Box. Nintendo has a product on the shelves, an ancient product with games that are seriously overpriced, that they are rolling in the dough with and of course they don't like Microsoft threatening it. Good for them. However they are not holding a moral high ground here : This is cut-throat busienss.
IGN already has responses from a Nintendo exec about the letter. It isn't really as big a deal as some would like to think. They are just trying to reassure retailers that their products will still sell very well against the XBox (et. al)
Cool. An intel processor RIGHT next to a NVidia one, now I don't need to buy an out dated console with an additional stove attachment, I'll be able to fry eggs right on top of my X-Box!
Either 1) Nintendo's VP of marketing is hopelessly unschooled in English grammar or 2) this is a hoax. The punctuation is worse that the average /. post. If this is all the better Nintendo can do in communicating with its retailers, they are already doomed.
We can reduce ideas to bits and people to genes, but "can" does not imply "should".
Hitting the XBox to cancel out the hype is exactly what Nintendo and the other players need to do starting yesterday. If they don't dull the XBox shine a little, they will not sell any of their own consoles.
As your post and others point out, killing the competition with vapor is a classic MS tactic. The only way to reduce its effectiveness is to cast doubt on their vapor products while there is still marketing cash at the company to do it!
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~~ the real world is much simpler ~~
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Give me LIBERTY, or give me a check.
There are many examples where better does not = success. For example, Beta IS better than VHS, but what do most people have? Windows was not as robust as Unix or OS/2 back in the early 90s for servers --- but OS/2 is gone and Windows is doing well. (Okay; Linux weakens by argument, but I will stand by it just the same.)
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~~ the real world is much simpler ~~
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Give me LIBERTY, or give me a check.
Amen to that, I am already salivating over the prospect of gutting one of these things for the graphics card, replacing the card with a cheap alternative, and giving the still serviceable carcass to my computer illiterate parents.
I wonder if MS have created some chip to inextricably tie software to the X-Box hardware? At $299-399 they're just begging for the Slashdot hackers (vultures? :) to come along to 'fully exploit the true potential of the x-box'.
I, and obviously many other people see this turning into an open source TiVo, MP3, DivX Deux player, good firewall box etc. It even includes an Ethernet and USB ports, so it's practically begging to have its OS 're-adjusted'.
When you're selling a box at a loss, or very thin profit line at best, will Microsoft accommodate this? I can imagine the X-Box hacking sites being taken down through the DMCA already... "Unauthorised breach of a copy protection device"?
And what exactly do you think MS will do when the XBox comes out?
They'll probably do the same thing everyone else is. Consider MS' habit of completely dominating every market it gets its grubby fingers in. This is one market where it simply CANNOT dominate because there's too much stiff competition. Admit it. Sony, Sega, and Nintendo have been in the console business for a lot longer than MS has. And despite all their claims, they really have no idea what they're getting themselves into.
I don't think the XBox will dominate the console market. Nor do I think it'll disappear. As you said, more competition will drive prices down. That's how it works. And I'm looking forward to that.
As for the system itself, it's still totally unproven to me. System specs and doctored screenshots are meaningless to me. I don't care WHAT they say it can do until I see it do it myself, with the controller in my hot little hands. Then, and only then, will I believe them.
I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that you're an idiot!
I'm worried that the X-Box will come out and everyone will blame MS for destroying sony in the market - but in reality sony is treating the US market like crap right now. I've heard there's tons of Japanese titles for the thing (and most US PS2 sites list these as released titles), but you can't buy them - and if you could you can't run them.
Did anyone else read this title, "Titbits"?
See what the internet as done to America's youth!
--Joey
Call me paranoid, but i don't like the idea of another microsoft product becomming the mainstream for a majority of people using a computer or playing video games.
Consider a generation from now. What if xbox is microsoft's way of getting in? Now they have other consoles, and much like with windows, there isn't a need to make a good product because it IS the product to own.
Nintendo could be the next Apple.
Then again, there's always PSX.
*shrugs*
*maddest_hatter*
gir_in_reboot
"Z?"
"freedom of speech means being able to scream theatre in a crowded fire."
First, the source and it's name, purpose, etc, speaks for itself.
Someone also pointed out the grammar problems, which I took notice to. A PR/Marketing/etc employee isn't going to put anything out with mistakes like that.
The whole idea of Nintendo telling retailers to "remove the Xbox advertisements" is completely absurd. I'm suprised people are actually buying this... Money talks, and bullshit walks; I don't care how much they are actually getting paid for the placement of the posters or whatever, asking them to remove Microsoft's promotion would be quite futile.
Lastly, the argument "It hurts sales of existing products" isn't good enough because people looking to buy a system immediately or in the near immediate future don't just see an ad for a future product and [perchance after asking a sales agent how long till it is released or knowing nothing at all about when it will be] say, "Oh, forget this nicely priced $100 Dreamcast which will play all these great games being sold for less then what the N64 ones are, this coming X-box looks like a real killer... Wonder if it'll be priced at about PS2 cost when it comes out or slightly less?" Sarcasm in quoted context, needless to say...
mwtr / THIS SIG HAS BEEN PRAYED OVER AND MAY BE USED AS A POINT OF CONTACT (ACTS 19:12)
http://ps2.ign.com/news/32701.html
The PS2 is a great system. It just tears my head off on my 55" toshiba television and my 500W pioneer receiver with surround setup. SSX rules. Had a blast last night playing nhl 2001 with my friends while having a beer(we're canadians). Still waiting for GT3, WWF smackdown 3,anything from square(haven't tried the bouncer yet). Me and my roommate had a blast last weekend playing track and field. We thought it wouldn't be fun but once we started competing in the events we really got into it. I don't know what people dissing the graphics are smoking. This system really is meant to play and have fun, and boy is my couch more confortable than my computer chair.
It's not about being able to play DVD's in the sense of movies (where Your dorm room comment is probably directed at), but rather the ability to read DVD discs in general.
;-) and other high-quality low-bandwidth compression schemes.
Many games, despite the awesome real-time performances of 3D accelerators, still include full-motion video sequences.
Throw in bunch of those, and You're quickly running out of space on Your average CD-ROM - even when using DivX
And DVD-drives aren't all that much more expensive than CD-ROM-drives, so why would You -not- opt to have DVD included ?