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Gamecube In Danger?
mmmmbeer writes "This article at Daily Radar and this one at MCV share an unsettling development. Apparently, Hiroshi Yamauchi, President of Nintendo, has said that if Gamecube doesn't get a "positive response at E3," then they may not go through with producing the Gamecube. Personally, I doubt that Gamecube will get anything but great reviews, but it's worrying that he would have said that."
this really depends on what he means by "good reception".
Does he mean the press, or the developers? The press slamming it is not so bad a problem as all the developers going over to the Xbox. If they all defected, you can understand Nintendo sticking with what they've got, and not spending all their cash on marketing a dead product.
Screw Nintendo - they stopped making games for serious gamers a long time ago.
--Ryvar
They have to compete w- Sony, who already has 10 million + of their consoles in homes, and the XBox, which appears to be a media darling. Nintendo has to beat the "kiddie" console image Pokeman helped establish for them to be a serious contender in the console market
...there, its been said, now they won't make it.
Nintendo is taking the right track with this one. Nintendo may be the senior company in this market, but Sony and Microsoft have billions, and are willing to spend it, to dominate this market. The Gamecube had better be one incredible machine to be able to survive. Is the market capable of three consoles? Maybe. But my money is on PS2 and XBox over Dolphin.
No boom today. Boom tomorrow. There's always a boom tomorrow. - Cmdr. Susan Ivanova
I'm sure this is all hype. Of course people are going to see it at E3 and have a positive response. This way Mr. Yamauchi can say "Well, since the demand was SOOOO HIGH, we have decided to release the Gamecube." Nintendo isn't going to go back on years of R&D when the GC is so close to launch. Take this quote with a barrel of salt.
Hmmm... I can't see that being a true quote. Reason being, that the major Japanese game companies (Nintendo, Sony, Sega) usually gauge their successes and failures on how well their systems do in Japan, with the rest of the world being secondary. That's why even though N64 was pretty popular in the US, it was still considered somewhat of a failure by Yamauchi & co. This being the case, why would Yamauchi base GC's (non)production on an American tradeshow, over it's own Japanes tradeshow Spaceworld?
This is a bad thing?!?!?! Nintendo's been a bit of a loser in the gaming industry for a while now. One less gaming platform means that you're more likely to find the game you like/want on the system/s you do own. No more having to own 2 or 3 systems to play all the best games. No more lame, annoying commercials for nintendo. There was an article published a while back about how a large diversity of gaming systems tends to slow/squash game development, and from there, slows down system development. I see this as a positive development. ALL HAIL NATURAL SELECTION
Sending spam is legal, ethical, and basically a good thing
Check out this article on the good ol' shack.
http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/13536/
Now if they could make some real games for the system. Mario and Zelda shoudn't be the only reason to buy a console. (Oh yea, forgot Mario Paint)
Haha surely this is a troll, but you've got to be kidding me. It would die and Nintendo wouldn't see a dime. The entire Open Source community is at best a drop in the ocean compared to the markets that any of these video games target. Even if you could get the entire Open Source community to buy it, it would not even cover Nintendo's costs. What's more, the Open Source community hasn't a clue or the equipment to develop modern video games (e.g., motion capture, sound and video recording studios, etc.), never mind skill, desire, and organization....
They'd do far better selling it to, say, Sega (not that that's likely).
The only other option Nintendo would have is to become a software/Pokemon vendor. Anyone know how much of their income doesn't depend on hardware sales?
I'm really hoping Nintendo doesn't pull a Sega, but it looks like they just might.
Blue skies... Barthie burgers... girls.
Wasn't the gameboy advance designed to be used as a controller of some sort for the game cube? If the game cube dies, will they include this capability (= added cost) or not? They still have 80% of the handheld game market, which is pretty good, but charging more for a capability you'd never be able to use seems ridiculous...
This reminds me of when Ty announced they were going to stop making Beanie Babies, then shortly thereafter decided they were going to put it to a "vote" of whomever was willing to shell out fifty cents (which, to be fair, went to charity) to have their voice heard. Needless to say, we're still up to our ears in cloyingly-named animal-shaped hacky sacks.
I think the chance of the E3 reaction scuttling the launch of the Gamecube is about equal to the chance that anyone would have gotten a free taco out of Taco Bell's Mir stunt.
If you don't want my koalas, baby, don't shake my eucalyptus tree.
Nintendo should drop out of the hardware game, and hit up M$ or $ony for a huge $ deal to make Nintendo an exclusive label for that console.
Hardware has always been a loss-leader for game sales, at best a break-even proposition.
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I smoked once (or, ahem, more than), and you're damn right I inhaled.
I NEED MY METROID!! I've waiting YEARS for my Metroid!!
Seriously, though, PSX and M$ are focusing on the adult/teenagers for their target audience. Nintendo has always appealed to the kiddies. Nintendo will always have a place in the console market until one of the consoles seriously attack the kid market. Even then, Nintendo's cornered the portable game market. I don't think we have anything to worry about.
Good quote, too many chars. Seriously, the slashdot 120 char limit sucks!
*Faints at the shock of Nintendo late with another console* *Gasps at Nintendo's failure to deliver what is promised (Anyone remeber the N64 DD add-on that was suppose to change the face of gaming forever?)* Ever since the SNES, Nintendo has been on a terminal slide in the eyes of hardcore gamers (not the cutesy Pokemon-on-Gameboy players). They lack games in Genres other than Racing, Sports, and TV Rip-offs (I'm the first to coin this catagory.. Think of all the games based on TV, such as Pokemon, Power Rangers, and WWF games). Then there was the Vitual Boy... *Shudders* First game system I ever heard of having a serious health risk... The credible Third Party developers who jumped ship when the N64 was launched (Most noteably, Squaresoft.) were merely the beginnning. Constant delays, poor reviews,high development and product costs, and lack of developers doomed the N64 and solidified the victory of the PSX in it's time. It's understandable that Nintendo would not want see this happen again with the Gamecube, although I don't think they'll have much of a problem. Especially in light of the upcoming Xbox and the mediocre rise of the PSX2, Nintendo can not afford to make another mistake, less they go the way of Sega.(Sega CD - strike 1, Sega Saturn - strike 2, Sega Dreamcast - strike 3..You're OUT!) Repeated failures to produce quality hardware forced them to give up the console business and focus on software. Currently, with N64 (strike 1) and the extension of it that never even saw the light of day (strike-2), Nintendo can't afford another mistake...
"Every computer Crashes, cause Every OS Sucks.. Everything since Apple/DOS..Just a bunch of crap"
I think they are just trying to build momentum towards the big launch at E3, by posting hype generating news like this. Nintendo is very secure, thank you very much, thanks to their Gameboy line of products. Even if the Gamecube does not do well, Nintendo can pull a Microsoft and pour cash into the Gamecube. Look at the N64. Good system at the time, but it was the games that made it. Still, the market share is nothing to write home to mom about. How does it still exist? Gameboy. Same will hold true for the Gamecube.
It will succeed. With the amount of kids out there, and the price point they are shooting for, it can only do well. Look at the Dreamcast! Since the pricedrop to $99, they have been selling faster then ever. One thing I admire about Nintendo, they are out for the gaming dollar, not this all-in-one home entertainment console.
Bryan R.
Bryan R.
The price of freedom is eternal vigilance, or $12.50 as seen on eBay.....
If the Gamecube isn't exciting the press, how is it meant to excite the home users? How can the console survive if it doesn't get people excited about it? Nintendo might just push back the launch instead, until they can get a launch lineup and strategy that _will_ make people excited. If nintendo goes through with producting a console that flops, it could damage them pretty bad. As it stands, they have the Gameboy Advance doing well, and they could get along quite fine on that. Especially if they get another Pokemon title out.
-- Michael Lee Martin
This system will make or break Nintendo (at least the Nintendo we all know now...)
Sure, they could fall back on the GameBoy, but they can't keep doing that forever. The GameCube is such a huge investment on Nintendo's part. Five years of research for a product that would never hit shelves? The investment is too big. Nintendo will have to produce the console either way.
What we're seeing is mega-companies entering the console arena. Sony and Microsoft, of course, are the two bigger ones. They both have more marketing power, more money, and they can afford to take a risk. The PSX isn't going to break Sony, and well, we know the X-Box, if it flops (which it won't, courtesy of the Microsoft hype), won't break the Borg-type company that is Microsoft. The bigger companies can fall back on the other things that they produce. Nintendo and Sega, as well as the smaller console-only (and in-house game development) companies don't have that much to fall back on. Their work is only games.
We're seeing the end of the companies that truly pioneered console gaming.
Do you like German cars?
There are countless things right about the system, but two really big negatives:
I think it'll debut in the US in Oct 2002 or NEVER.
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I'm hoping gamers looking for a GameCube won't move towards the Xbox. I just don't like Microsoft in the game counsel market. They've invaded my home enough already.
Don't base your consel purchasing decisions on stats. The PS2's new system design gives it un-told power. The early demo of the MGS2 show off the PS2's real power. Amazing.
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InstantCool
As far as I see it, this was just a way for Nintendo to get some attention to the Game Cube. Now people will want to see this at E3 just see what the fuss is about and whether it will happen. They aren't serious about dropping this. This is business and most business won't just drop the money spent on R&D just because some people didn't quite like it. Nintendo will drum up some conversation to keep it on people's minds and hopefully their wallets will follow.
-- Wolfpup
"A man whose circumstances went beyond his control." -- Styx
...I can't believe most of the opinions in the comments I've just read.
When I first read about Nintendo's statement a couple of days ago my instant reaction was that they were really saying "at E3, we are going to blow all of your minds".
The hardware specs look good enough to compete with the XBox and PS2, and even more importantly they have the talent in games development (to this date nothing scheduled for the XBox looks to hot, and they lack Japanese support).
Nintendo aren't small or in trouble as some people here seem to think - the Pokemon franchise alone is worth _double_ what the entire US games industry is worth.
The GBA is an incredible machine (I've got one with F-Zero, and I can't put it down), and there are reportedly going to be some great uses of the GBA with the gamecube. The GBA is also the fastest selling console ever.
Nintendo don't just make kiddy games, they are fantastic whatever your age - "hardcore gamer" magazines such as Edge (in the UK) give 9/10 to most Nintendo games that I've seen.
Anyway, back to the point, Gamecube In Danger? IMHO absolutely not.
Its pretty sad that a company with as rich a gaming history as Nintendo is so spooked about Xbox that they would even consider this. First Dreamcast stops production, then MS hires many of Sony's developers away. Not that I won't consider an Xbox myself when it comes out, its just that it appears with MS entering the gaming market like all other markets it enters, your choice is now becoming limited. Very sad indeed.
If you wanna get rich, you know that payback is a bitch
The basic problem here is Nintendo wasn't doing all that much better than Sega. If it wasn't for all the royalties they get from Pioneer for Pokemon I'm sure they be in deep water.
The problem is Sony is a marketing Giant. They know how to put together a campain, they have an in at every retailer on the planet, and they can play "unfair" (but not illegal) when the chips are down. I worked at Circuit City, it wasn't a random thing that they dropped all the other video game systems and only had play station for several years. (They sell most of the systems currently however.)
Nintendo is a pain in the ass company to work with. They have been nailed before for price fixing. Compared to Sony, it's a harder platform to write for. With Sony a lot of the low level stuff is already functionalized for you in the SDK. This is really key for fast game porting. This is not to say it will be an ultra optimized port. I wouldn't suggest it if you're trying to push the GFX to the extreme, but if you want to make "Who wants to be a gazillionare" for the PSX it's easier than start from scratch on Nintendo.
I can see where is comes from, the Former CEO of Nintendo in a recent interview talked about how thye liked to have unique titles. He doesn't like Rayman, or title of it's ilk that have been ported everywhere. But this puts you into a business model where you need a killer game in the channel each quarter if you want to keep profitable. In some cases Nintendo has done well at this. Let's look at Gameboy. By all rights that thing should have been put to pasture six years ago. But some games keep it going. But you don't have a killer hit Pokemon game each quarter.
Sony on the other has a lot of crap games ported to the platform. Hell the first year there were tons of crap 3DO games ported. But that's okay, Sony has a model that makes it easy for everyone to jump in the pool. And with a royalty for every game sold to a retailer they don't have to depend on a Pokemon.
Summary, I hope this does well, but Nintendo needs to realize that a couple unique games isn't going to cut it for sales. Some people really do want to play Rayman and Pokemon on the same system.
As for people's rants about Nintendo not catering to the adult market, are you really informed on this issue, or just talking through Playstation- inspired ruby glasses? Rare might be--granted it's arguable, I agree that there're many fine Sony houses out there--the best game developer out there today. With games like Goldeneye, PD, Jet Force Gemini, and Conker, these are all adult games, and all can be described with superlatives. As an adult game player of Sony, PC, and Sega experience, IMHO Nintendo has the best 'feel' of any console out there. The previously mentioned 4 games alone made the price of the console worth it. If Gamecube's the same way, so be it. Nintendo just has to stop raping their 3rd parties, and they're good to go.
Ten years ago the big N was at the top of the heap, times have changed but IMHO management has done very little to keep the hot developers on board.
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crazy dynamite monkey
It wouldn't happen. Like I've said for the past few days (/. seems slooooooow on games news), either the investors, or someone within Nintendo Inc. will either override his decision, or remove him from his position.
He's an old man, using old business tactics (a la practically saying "fuck you Squaresoft"), and its a shame. But if anyone HONESTLY believes, that REGARDLESS of the reaction at E3, that Nintendo would cancal all Game Cube plans, you're simply stupid. Ninteno Inc., their stockholders, 2nd party developers, you can't even imagine how many people would be threatening with lawsuits.
Too tired to say much more, but don't believe this any more than you believe any url with "goatse" in it...
I heard somewhere that "Nintendo" means "play to the best of your ability, and allow the heavens to determine the outcome."
Trans.: "All you enthusiast sites: don't dare give us bad press, or we'll just take our ball and go home. Nyah!"
Seriously, this sounds like a classic passive-aggressive marketing threat. People who want to see competition in the industry will be hesitant to criticize the new platform, lest it be cancelled. So Nintendo gets free PR from all the desperate enthusiasts out there.
(Boy I'm cynical/paranoid, aren't I?)
Nintendo used to be the one other gaming console makers looked towards for direction, now it seems they are way behind the times. With awesome gaming platforms like PS2, Xbox, and the DREAMCAST (only $99!!), they better have some awesome hardware and specs bundled with the Gamecube, or else Nintendo will be in a world of hurt. The ultimate goal they need to focus on is what can they offer gamers that the PS2 and Dreamcast can't. Both units have awesome graphics, the Dreamcast comes with all sorts of components (keyboard, ethernet adapter), and with the advent of the Xbox, Nintendo better have something else up their sleeves besides just another console.
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Good. I hope the Gamecube doesn't come out.
The world would be a much better place if they were a software agnostic developer like Sega. That way I wouldn't have to buy the system for one good game.
--The space between my ears was intentionally left blank--
The only way to stop the crush from both Sony, and now M$ is for Nintendo to sign a big deal w/ Sega to have exclusive rights over all their games. Think of how awesome that would be.
Without that, I'm afraid we'll be down to only 2 systems, neither of which I'm all that excited about.
Sure, one of the main functions of E3 is to get the media and general public excited about up and coming games and hardware, but isn't a secondary function of E3 to be a testbed for next generation consumer products? If my hot .com company demos a new game, and every kid that comes up to it says, "Get bent dude, this game sucks!!", wouldn't you pull the plug on it? It just seems like a bit of a platitude to state that if the public doesn't like, we're not going to make it. No shit?!? Kind of a no brainer if you ask me.
I posted to
IMHO, Nintendo has been doing this for years. Last Generation, all of the consoles went to cd media. Nintendo, however, stuck with the much more expensive cartridge format, attempting to keep everything proprietary. Unfortunately, it lost its vendors, as well as its market share at that point. Now, if you look at the gamecube, it will be using 1/4 DVD's to again keep it proprietary, and make it harder to pirate. Nintendo will go the way of the Sega. It's too bad though... their games were excellent
I think... Therefore I was... a failing dot.com CEO
I'm definitely going to be one of the first buying the Nintendo GameCube when it is released over here in the UK. I've been buying all the Nintendo consoles and haven't been disappointed in any.
I don't think the GameCube will change Nintendo's flow of dominance in the gaming market. The last report I read about it, proved that Nintendo GameCube will out perform any other.
This was modded offtopic, but it does make some sort of sense.. The Gamecube's code name was "Dolphin", and this was the cryptic messages that the dolphins left behind when they left Earth.
There was an article published a while back about how a large diversity of gaming systems tends to slow/squash game development, and from there, slows down system development.
Woah.... Where was this article?
Actually, it has been shown time and time again that single console markets lend themselves to abuse of the customers and that you get very rapid game development, deployment, and innovation (ick, not that word again!) in multi-system markets.
Competition fuels innovation.
Another reason that the GameCube will fail is the decline of the N64, which suffered from an outmoded media format (Why did Nintendo stick with the cartridge? The PSX, Jaguar, Saturn and others had already moved on to CD-ROM. Nintendo gambled and lost.) and lack of consistently good games. Nintendo shifted their focus to the Pokemon/GameBoy craze, and will never recover their console market. The decline of the N64 led to something even more important -- the decline of their household name. When I was growing up in the 80s, Nintendo was so popular and well-known that "Nintendo" was used to generically describe all gaming systems. (Like "Kleenex".) Today, Nintendo doesn't even enter the mind of serious gamers, who are mired in their PS2s, DCs, and tricked-out PCs. Nintendo is making a lot of money off that yellow rat, but no one is thinking "Nintendo" when buying Pokemon merchandise.
The PS2 is huge. Those not enthralled with the PS2 will likely buy Xboxen when (if) they are released this winter. If Nintendo can't be shipping the GameCube by Spring 2002, all hope will be lost, for they will have fallen into the dreaded "lull" between console generations, when gamers who have just bought a PS2 or Xbox are unable to justify a new system. Nintendo can't afford to wait until the end of the lull (probably mid-2003), because by then their name will be all but unknown to the current generation of young gamers, all developers will be firmly seated in the Sony or MS camps, et cetera. There are just so many reasons why Nintendo is doomed, and they can blame it all on the yellow rat. Nintendo has been talking about the GameCube in different forms for probably five years at least... it's just too late to matter.
This "lull" deserves more discussion. For years, Sega and Nintendo had competing systems of the same "generation", at least in the eyes of we young'ins. The NES and SMS; Super NES and Genesis; N64 and Saturn. The Saturn failed miserably but by then the PSX had started to take off, and Sony replaced Sega as Nintendo's nemesis. These were three easily definable "generations" of consoles, and the lull in between, while not barren of sales, lacked the initial hype associated with a product launch. The generations are less easily definable these days, but the PS2, Xbox, and now-defunct DC will for our intents and purposes be competing systems. For the GameCube to enter into this rough market where everyone else has a head start, they would have to have amazing next-generation tech to get attention. I seriously doubt that Nintendo has the engineering clout to produce a system superior to both the Xbox and the PS2 these days.
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I like to watch.
The GameCube is not in trouble. It never was, it never will be. Why would Hiroshi Yamauchi say it is right before E3? Well, duh: To secure support for the product at a time when it is very shady as to who will win the console war.
If Yamauchi says "We won't ship this really cool game console that will make us a lot of money on the Pokemon and Miyamoto game sales alone unless you people kiss our asses at E3," what do you think is gonna happen? The press is gonna pay attention to Nintendo's booths a lot more than they had planned on doing and Nintendo fans are gonna send tons of letters to their favorite gaming press reminding them to do so.
Fear not - Nintendo has mucho mula in their bank accounts. Yamauchi is doing this to make sure the money they spend on E3 is worth every penny.
You should never take life too seriously - You'll never get out of it alive.
Number of references to the story x Number of banner ads on the page (over 10?) = easy money, provided you have no journalistic integrity. Perhaps the fact that the story makes no sense (Yup, Nintendo are *really* likely to can a project they have spent millions on and is eagerly anticipated by gamers all over the world. That's just such good business sense!)
(And a special thanks to all the Slashdot readers who seem to think they are games 'experts', that come out of the woodwork every time there's a gaming story - I'm sure the biggest entertainment software publisher in the world really cares that you think they 'suX0r'.)
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I'd love to play both these series but refuse to pay an extra $300 to play them. What's wrong with the console I already own?
People who say "money does not buy happiness" are just people without money trying to make themselves feel better.
Oh no! I might not be able to play all those games from companies that signed exclusively with Nintendo, like... like... hmm.
Oh well, nevermind.
Seriously, how many developers really 'defect' anyway. It isn't in their best interest.
So long as there is an install base of the machine, developers will develop for it. (for a time anyway)
Vermifax
Vermifax
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"This was modded offtopic, but it does make some sort of sense."
Hence I called it a subtle joke. Glad someone got it though. And lets have a round of applause for the moderator involved. It seems if you cannot understand something it is now offtopic. On another note, how come at the moment the post has 1 -1 offtopic moderation but it shows as score 0: funny?
Slashdot: Proof that a million monkeys at a million typewriters can create a masterpiece
...most often the people touting the 'Nintendo is kiddie' line are teenagers who are trying to be cool and grown up.
Once you get into the 20-somethings you run into more gamers who realize that a game is fun if it is fun and don't care what age group the game was marketed towards. We play Zelda right alongside Quake, Mario Bros right next to Baldur's Gate.
My views are in no way scientific, just observations over time on various gaming boards.
Vermifax
Vermifax
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The 'freeze' was just horribly translated. What he was referring to was in more general terms just to stop doing whatever doesn't impress people at E3. Sounds like what any developer would say. If they show off something at a trade show and everyone says that particular aspect or feature of a game sucks then they dont do it. He wasnt referring to the console system as a whole though.
-Steve Gibson
-Steve Gibson
Shacknews.com
There. The Gamecube will be produced, but depending on the feedback from E3, they might hold back the release of the console.
"Ancillary does not mean you get to rule the world." --U.S. Circuit Judge Harry Edwards, speaking to the FCC's lawyer
Considering the Xbox is set to come out at about the same time, the GameCube is not in a good position. This site has the comparison, but I'll elaborate some. 733 Mhz vs. 405 Mhz, 250 Mhz graphics (nVidea) vs. 202 Mhz (proprietary). 64 MB vs. 43 MB. 6.4 GB/sec vs. 3.2 GB/sec. The kicker: 125 M/sec polygon perf. vs. 6-12 MB/sec. Not to mention lack of DVD. Also, whats the deal with using serial and parallel ports?!?! Is anyone going to be printing from their GameCube?
...see you auntie
>Sony can't keep throwing money at PS2 forever.
:)
Yes they can. This is *Sony* we're talking about.
Add to the fact that Japan's economy is 10 times worst then most first world country's. Its not a surprise they are reluctant.
IMHO: From the current specs I have to say that I'm not impressed. They all seemed a step lowered the PS2's. Nintendo has a history of waiting for all of a given generation's systems to be marketed before finalizing their specs. Remember the SNES was delayed over a year and the graphics chip redone so that Big N could say their system could do twice as many colors as the Sega Genesis.
I think at this time its better to take a wait and see attitude.
P.S. Virtual Boy
Nintedo screws Sony(PS-X):
http://www.atlink.it/psx/hacks/psxfaq.htm
http://slashdot.org/books/01/01/31/1615218.shtml
Bulky Drive:m l
http://www.gamesdomain.com/gdreview/depart/n64.ht
You say things that offend me and I can deal with it. Can you?
BUT in reality what he was saying is that they would hold the release until a more favorable opinion came out. Don't think freeze as in stop, think freeze as in freeze-thaw.
Here's the real scoop.
Pardon me if this seems harsh, but people need to CHECK THEIR FACTS before they submit a story.
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jX [ Make everything as simple as possible, but no simpler. - Einstein ]
This is not likely to happen for several reasons, but one that came to my mind was the Game Boy Advance. I follow the Games Industry, and especially Nintendo quite closely, and Nintendo has been working on making the GBA compatible with the GameCube, like having games transfer data back and forth, and stuff like that. Now, we know that GBA is all systems go, considering the facts that it's already out in Japan, and The Almighty North American Release is only a month and some days away. (June 11th, I'll be in line :) Now, the GC is coming out this fall, last I heard. They most likely wouldn't just cancel it this close to release, that would be the equivalent of dropping a large weight on their foot. They've put alot of effort into developing and marketing it, and canceling now would be worse then just releasing it now and building up the critics support later. They already have a tremendous amount of support, and alot of people are looking forward to it.
Summary: IMHO, This doesn't affect GameCube at all.
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This space reserved for valid arguements, not pointless ramblings.
My other
... But Pokemonish fads don't last forever...
Do you like German cars?
My money for return on inverstment will always be on Nintendo. Honestly, there isn't a game company that hasn't felt the wrath recently of Mr. Bill and his money, and well, Nintendo is finacially sound. This is a huge deal in a business that has probably all of it invested in entertainment, which is extremely risky. Nintendo hasn't died because it is cautious, and it knows when to take profit. Someone please back me up on this one with some financial figures, I've seen them on /. before. Nintendo is watching and plays well... conservative, but still plays well. Wow... I can't believe all of the people that think that those resident evil games are even fun at all, and some of that other "in a room searchin" crap that Sony licenses. I see this whole debate differently than most. I think that Pikachu is great for kids, cause they're like pets and fun. Blowing off dino heads with a shogun from a parent's perspective is terrible for kids. Nintendo has made the better decision, they'll be fine. Games are mostly for little kids. We gripe cause we're all nerds that never grew up.
"they may not go through with producing the Gamecube"
Hiroshi Yamauchi never said that. He simply stated that they may stop marketing the game cube. Not producing it is simply an extrapolation by Daily Radar, a website known for having little- if any - journalistic integrity.
I don't think that quote was taken in context. Based on this article at IGN, Yamauchi made this comment in regard to the recent announcement that Gamecube will be delayed in Japan. His intentions aren't on scrapping the Gamecube, but merely rethinking their marketing strategy if there's a negative response at E3. At any rate, the number one priority for Nintendo is releasing their system in time for the holiday season.
Dreamcast definitly had good potential, but their lack of quality software really killed it for them, just as it did for every Sega system.
The last Sega system I can remember with a even remotely decent lineup was the Genesis. If they had gotten some bigger names to program games for them, the would have done extremely well..
"Every computer Crashes, cause Every OS Sucks.. Everything since Apple/DOS..Just a bunch of crap"
Sega, Nintendo, ...
Take a second and try to remember the word processing market. The spreadsheet market. The browser market. Etc.
Whether or not Microsoft manages to achieve dominance in a particular market, the initial dynamic whenever they've decided that a product category is successful (or threatening) enough for them to copy.
Overnight, a healthy, competitive market gets narrowed down to 2 choices, MS and the current market leader. From there, depending on how much 'leveraging' MS does, it's a slow war of attrition.
So I guess Sony, as the current champ, gets to battle it out with xbox, and Sega and Nintendo are just caught in the crossfire. So much for 'healthy' competition.
Posted from my Android phone. Oh, I can change this? There, that's better...
The failure of the Cube is a proof that Microsoft will destroy the Video Games market: in the future the only console will be the XBox..
The press slamming it is not so bad a problem as all the developers going over to the Xbox. If they all defected, you can understand Nintendo sticking with what they've got
Nintendo already has a dead product (Nintendo 64) that it's been phasing out lately (notice only two announced N64 games in latest Nintendo Power magazine's Game Watch). But Nintendo has a nearly guaranteed winner in the GAMECUBE because kids are going to want one no matter what, as Nintendo has trademarks on popular franchises such as Super Mario, the series formerly known as Zelda (when was the last time you saw Princess Z being rescued? A Link to the Past?), and especially POcKEt MONey (gotta spend 'em all). Plus, Nintendo has an exclusive contract with Rare, who can squeeze the last bit out of even the hardest hardware. (Had Rare been developing for Saturn, the PSX likely wouldn't have killed it as quickly.)
Will I retire or break 10K?
I think gamers of all ages can enjoy games like Zelda
Background: All games marketed as "Zelda" have a character named Link as the hero. Three of them have rescuing Princess Zelda as one of the main objectives (Z1 and Z2 final objective; Z3 first objective). Calling Z4 (Link's Awakening) a "Zelda" game is just wrong; where does she appear? To use the terminology of NetBSD, Z4 is a "Zelda-like" game.
Z5 for N64, Z6 for N64Plus, and the Oracle series for GBC: Haven't looked at them too closely; they came out after I became a PC gamer.
Will I retire or break 10K?
[root@localhost /root]# _
Compared to Sony, it's a harder platform to write for. With Sony a lot of the low level stuff is already functionalized for you in the SDK. This is really key for fast game porting. This is not to say it will be an ultra optimized port. I wouldn't suggest it if you're trying to push the GFX to the extreme, but if you want to make "Who wants to be a gazillionare" for the PSX it's easier than start from scratch on Nintendo.
I think you're a bit mixed up on which console is "easier" to program...
There has been complaints for over a year now about how the PlayStation 2 is one of the most difficult consoles to program. Due mainly to parallel processing and that almost all graphic effects are done via software. One of the main reasons why PS2 games were few and not extremely graphically impressive during the system's launch last year was because of the difficult graphic programming.
(I'm not for sure, but didn't the developer for Oddworld expicitly switch from PS2 to X-box due to those problems? -- I don't have a link to back that up.)
The May 2001 issue of Wired contains an article about the GScube -- Sony's prototype of the PlayStation to come. In it, another woe of programming for the PS2 is revealed: Parallel programming. Most game programmers had too much difficulty adjusting to new architecture.
Most adept programmers wouldn't be too scared off by parallel programming. But if a game company can make millions by programming the old fashioned way on the X-box, or make millions minus new development time for the PS2, which way will they go?
Even game publishers who make one game and seventeen ports will lean away from difficult-to-program consoles.
Back in the day, the N64 was more difficult to program for than the original PlayStation. But that is not now.
Christopher N Emmick
Christopher N Emmick
A good man, a better nerd.
Everybody is still jumping on Nintendo for their decision to use cartridges for N64. I have come to another opinion. We all know the frequently mentioned respective advantages and disadvantages of carts vs. optical media, so I won't repeat it here. However, CD drives have two characteristics that drive me nuts: loading times and especially noise. N64 was the first console I owned after many years (my first one was the worst console ever sold: Philips G7000), so I didn't fully appreciate the quiteness and quick loading. But some months ago I purchased a Dreamcast and I simply can't use it. The "eeeeeeek eeeeeeeeeeeek grgrgrgrpfffffff eeeeeeek" everytime I turn a corner turns me off enormously. The wait I hate. After 30 minutes in a game I can't take it anymore. For this to stop I'm more than willing to sacrifice streaming music, sheer game world size for nothing and cheap prices.
"When I first heard Daydream Nation it quite frankly scared the living shit out of me." -- Matthew Stearns
Apparently Hiroshi Yamauchi is known to like to tease the media and a lot of what he says can be interpreted in many ways. This makes it hell to thanslate anything he says to any other language. I wouldn't worry about the GameCube, what these articles says is probably only one interpretation of what he meant. Even if he said it, then this will generate a lot of attention at e3, which might be what he wanted to do.
But Nintendo has a nearly guaranteed winner in the GAMECUBE because kids are going to want one no matter what, as Nintendo has trademarks on popular franchises such as Super Mario, the series formerly known as Zelda (when was the last time you saw Princess Z being rescued? A Link to the Past?),
Hmmm... Princess Zelda was the subject of rescue during Zelda: The Ocarina of Time
That was a N64 game.
Obviously your assertion that "kids are going to want [GameCube] no matter what," is based off of past Nintendo history. If you were up-to-date on the Nintendo games and franchises, you'd know there was a Zelda in Ocarina of Time. And you'd also know that kids love affair with Pokemon is fading.
Nintendo's first party franchise games will be on the GameCube, but they're going to be more than just a kiddie system. Check out some of those "kiddie" games slated for the GameCube on IGN.com.
Christopher N Emmick
Christopher N Emmick
A good man, a better nerd.
1) Nintendo doesn't have enough hardware developers to develop a game console with the power of the Playstation2 or X-Box. Sony and Microsoft can afford to hire the best (Sony already has them from their home electronics division actually) and even Sega has a background in arcades that helps with the development of high quality graphics hardware needed for a new console.
2) Nintendo doesn't need a new console to make money. They are already making a fortune off the Pokemon franchise and the Gameboy (which generates far more profit than consoles which often have to be sold for a loss.) Nintendo could go the same path Sega went and focus on game development, an area far more profitable than hardware. Furthurmore, to compete with Microsoft and Sony, both of which can afford to sell the system for a loss which theyd recoup selling games, periferal hardware and software liscenses, Nintendo would have to sell their new console at a loss that might not be compensated later on.
3) The Gamecube was a likely failure anyway, lacking many third party developers, less powerful than the PS2 or Xbox and arriving a year later probably. Nintendo cannot survive by making games like Pokemon that are not only suitable for children, but designed with children in mind. Parents would be less likely to sink $300 - $400 into a Gamecube than to spend the $100 for a Dreamcast, even if more children want the Gamecube. Nintendo would have to appeal to an older age group to successfully market the Gamecube (they have made steps in this direction, though, with the adult-themed Conker.)
Given a reasonably level playing field, who would win a fight between a bear and a shark?
Having a PS2 already, why would I buy an XBox?
Almost any game I'd care to own on the XBox will be (eventually) produced for the PS2 (and possibly the GameCube) as well.
In fact, if you can only own two systems the only thing that makes any sense is to make sure one of them is a GameCube.
Think about it, the GameCube will have a lot of great and very unique Nintendo titles that you just aren't going to get anywhere else. Each console will have it's own exclusive games, but I can't think of any other set of console-exclusive games you would rather have than Nintendo games.
My two choices for the upcoming console wars are the PS2 and the GameCube, really the only choices that make sense at the moment given what we know. Perhaps that will change after E3, but I don't think so. I'm already really happy with the PS2 and I trust Nintendo enough to know the GameCube will be enjoyable as well.
You are right about them being hurt by late shipping though. If they can manage to ship this year they will be set, but I'll have to admit that's a pretty big IF given thier track record in the past! Still, all reports I've read seem to indicate things are right on schedule. Perhaps they will pull it off this time.
And despite what you said about Nintendo not even registering in the minds of "serious" gamers, I think I can guess what will happen if you put GameCubes and Xboxen in the same stores at the same time, with the GameCube $100-$150 less than the XBox... hint, it involves a lot of "X"-tra shipments to landfills.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Regardless of whether or not Nintendo decides to completely pull the Gamecube, it is obvious that the company is aiming to avoid direct competition with Sony and Microsoft. If the Gamecube is released, it won't dare push very hard at the 15-24-year-old demographic that Sony and Microsoft are after; Nintendo has neither the funds or the third party relationships to mess with the giants. Kiddie system. Deal with it.
You do have to realize that the Game Boy line of products has been Nintendo's cash cow for well over 10 years - not SNES, not N64. When giant corporations move in, smaller businesses usually specialize by necessity. So it's possible that the Handheld line will become Nintendo's focus, with the Gamecube ultimately playing a more significant role in boosting Game Boy Advance than breaking new ground on its own.
My money's on Microsoft. Face it, they're just playing the industry better than anyone else... and - *take a deep breath* - they are the innovative force right now in gaming.
"If we don't get attention at E3 we won't ship!"
"If I don't get 8 million dollars in a month, the lord's taking me home!"
Kinda makes you wonder who said which, right?
-- Grey d'Miyu, not just another pretty color.
Nintendo owned the market in the mid 80's, they figuratively (and at times, literally) had their developers bent over the kitchen sink and had their way with them because they could.
The PlayStation was initially an add-on CD-ROM for the Super Nintendo that they decided their consumers didn't want. Whoops.
When you own the market, you can tell your consumers as well as developers how the game's played. Just keep them fingers crossed and hope no one chews up your market share and you can keep everything on your terms.
Easy does it!
This comment has been submitted already, 276865 hours , 59 minutes ago. No need to try again.
ZELDA. METROID. MARIO.
Ignore Nintendo if you like, but you'll be missing out on the best Japanese-style first-party games available on any console. If you've never played either N64 Zelda game for more than half an hour, you're missing out.
Compare this with Sony, and let us know which of their first-party (heh) games are of the same calibre that Nintendo and Sega are capable of producing, at any "maturity" rating.
(BTW, WTF does "maturity" have to do with games??? "Maturity" is for smoking expensive contraband cigars and eating aged cheeses and sipping on fine wines, not for kicking your best friend's ass all over a damn monitor screen. Pokemon...Street Fighter...Q3A...what's the difference? You're competing in a virtual world, hopefully _escaping_ the world of "maturity" while you're at it.)
< tofuhead >
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It is still the dark of night.
Also, the Daily Radar is not highly regarded for their accuracy in much of anything. My experience leads me to know the Daily Radar as an "organization" that frequently misinterprets (whether it is intentional or not is not for me to decide) games news. I would say that the Daily Radar is much like the National Enquirer, except that, once in a while, the National Enquirer might post something of relevance to something important regarding its intended audience. (In other words, I wouldn't trust the Daily Radar ... not even on their opinions.)
Lastly, the GameCube is in absolutely no danger. I have seen or heard no reputable games sources reporting anything even remotely negative (aside from possible delays) about the GameCube, and cancelling production is not under any kind of consideration whatsoever.
Talk about misinterpretations, and talk about slashdot's inability to catch them.
Damn, read the article that you linked. I quote
we have no reason to doubt the arrival of the Gamecube
It deliberately says that in the article YOU linked, yet you still twist the words around. shame.
That's an oximoron if I've ever heard/read one. Games are not meant to be taken seriously, man. They're fun. They're relaxing. They're for letting loose and taking a load off. Don't get so caught up in the appearance of things. They're just games...
Oh, and would you care to back up your argument that "Sony has a complete hold" with real evidence, rather than your bias? Sony is certainly more hated than Nintendo where I come from.
(Could it be because Sony ditched Nintendo? Oh, wait, that couldn't be ... because, as the story has been [incorrectly] told, Nintendo ditched Sony. Research the story, and note that it was Nintendo's call to bring Sony into the deal, Sony got a little greedy [Who could blame them? There was money involved!], and eventually corporate differences led to the split. Nintendo didn't leave Sony out to dry... Nintendo knew very well that Sony, as a mega-corporation as it was, would not suffer at all by losing the "Nintendo PlayStation," as it was first called.)
Once you grasp the strategy of the game (each character is of a certain type -- each with their own strengths and weaknesses) it turns into a giant game of Rock-Paper-Scissors, except there's about 8 different variables to consider. It's very much like the turn-based fighting in RPGs. What's very interesting is that mid-fight your opponent can switch their character so it may not always pay off to choose a specific attack that only works on a certain type of Pokémon.
Then we got into the mini-games. With about 4 other guys from the dorms, we started playing some of the very simple, very fun games included in Pokémon Stadium 2 -- it took us until 5am to stop playing.
Now from a marketing perspective, the entire Pokémon genre is ingenious -- the show, the movies, the games, the cards, the figures are all so closely intertwined that you do feel like you have to catch them all. Of course this doesn't work as well on a bunch of people in their early 20's as it does on pre-teens.
Still, I find it amazing, especially in this Slashdot crowd that's supposed to be better than your average bear, that so many people would come down on this in a judgmental way w/out actually playing the game. It's not for everyone, but it is fun.
Small potatoes make the steak look bigger.
(Heck, N64? screw that, they should go back to the SNES. Why isn't anyone producing games for the SNES any more?)
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The definition of an adult game is not "blood & tits". Nintendo may have franchises that are targeted towards kids(Pokemon), but please dont say all the games that they create are kiddy. Just because legend of Zelda does not have blood and gore in it does not classify it as a kiddy game. It is one of the most fun, immersive and innovative games of its time. The N64 may not have done well but it has more must have titles than the PS. You can always count on Nintendo & Rare to create some of the best games around(Miyamoto is the MAN). Nintendo is one of the most innovative game companies of all time and I am sure they will ASTOUND all of us with the cube. XBox. Do we really need MS to monopolize another market and kill off the real innovaters in its quest. I hope it turns out to be the PBox ;)
Make us all proud Nintendo. Still playing your games at age 28.
Normally I'd be willing to accept this as a PR stunt, but this is Yamauchi we're talking about. The same man who alienated 2/3 of the Japanese gaming market by not only insulting RPGs in general, but anyone who finds them entertaining. The same man who refuses developers on the basis that they run the risk of selling more units than Nintendo itself. The same man who, even after pressing fromm shareholders and industry bigwigs, still refuses to allow exceedingly violent content on any of his company's systems.
If it were some reasonable Nintendo spokesperson making such claims, I might believe them. ButYamauchi is a complete lunatic at his worst, which always seems to be when put in front of a microphone.
At least we can be assured that if the Gamecube doesn't show well at E3, we'll at least get some spectacular lashing fromYamauchi. Maybe he'll alienate the last third of Nintendo's key market by blaming it all on idiot kids and their moronic parents?
Everyone seems to think Nintendo is broke, but they do have money to throw around; the Game Boy hardware and software and N64 software have been making them alot of money in recent years. Your console doesn't need to be number one to be profitable, as N64 software has shown Nintendo (I'm talking 1st party stuff here, not 3rd parties). Nintendo will be content with not being number one if it's bringing them in profit.
Umm, it's not made by Nintendo, so porting their games to it are not going to sell their consoles.
And I could tell you why the GameCube is better then the console you already own, but that would just create a flamewar :)
Nintendo are a hardware and software company. They do both, and they do both well. The are alot like Apple in that reguard. I guess you want an x86 Mac OS X port too? ;)
All true. I'm just saying that Sony is insanely rich, and can basically do anything that pure money can let them do. They can't buy off either MS or Nintendo, who are also both insanely rich, but Sony can put together a hell of a media campaign, using every legal and borderline-legal trick they know.
:)
Actually, I like the fact that the PS2 edged the DC out of the market, since I've got a DC. A lot of great DC games at the local Walmart were on clearance for around $10 each.
Its worth noting that there is an article in this month's NextGen on major cutbacks and retrenching at Nintendo's first party Gamecube game studio in texas, Retro.
They've cut half their projects and laid off 20 developers.
Just another data point. Lord knows what it means.
I DO know the game industry in general won't let MS gobble it all without a fight...
Microsoft bribe the press. :)
Gamecube dies.
Microsoft beat Sony.
Playstation 2 & 3 die.
Microsoft get screwed and sued by the DOJ.
Microsoft dies.
PC is the future of gaming!
Mario Kart was and still is the best game ever written, and no-one gets killed. Amen. I say this as I have been playing it for about 8 years, and it's still fun.
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Vollernurd.
Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules.
Hahah, you do know that Indrema is now dead, right? (All this before it even hit the market) Yeah, the true "powers" of OSS, the ability to send millions of dollars in capital to a speedy demise.
989 Studio's was a Sony owned game maker... they made games for PS...
Snooze and you lose your sushi.
It sure does. They kinda screwed themselves over with that idea... oh well. Their loss, altho I'm still a strong Nintendo fan, I think I'll stick with the 64. Unless the Gamecube turns out to be a huge load better than anyone thought.
--I had a cool sig, but it died. So I go this one.