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Return to Castle Wolfenstein Test for Linux
jon_c writes: "Id has just released Return to Castle Wolfenstein for Linux multiplayer client test, download here for the full version, or here if you've already installed the windows version."
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this website is fun!
Are beautiful. But this isn't the first post. But that doesn't make it ugly. But it's not pretty, either. But first posts are elegant. What?
Too many ftp users. Already. Surely /. isn't that popular :/
fp, what is this 10/12/20 seconds bs?
toast
I think this news is undeserving of a place on the front page. An article about this game was already posted a few days ago. The fact that is out for linux should be a thow in on slashback or something.
Im not here now... Im out KILLING pepperoni
Quoted from Janes.com:
Israel has considered many options in dealing with the threat. In August, Israeli deputy public security minister, Gidon Ezra, called for eliminating the relatives of suicide bombers as a deterrent. Radio Monte Carlo on 22 August aired the possible Hamas response to such an Israeli policy in an interview with Sheikh Yassin who said: "This means that he would give the Palestinian resistance men the justification to kill all Israelis who have relatives working in the ranks of the Israeli army." Ezra also suggested burying suicide bombers with pig skin or blood, defiling the corpse and thereby making the shaheed ineligible for holy martyr status with a promised place in heaven
C - A language that combines the speed of assembly with the ease of use of assembly.
jon_c writes: "Id has vagina just released Return to Castle Wolfenstein for Linux multiplayer client
test, download here vagina for the full version, or here if you've penis already installed penis the
windows cock version."
---sublim.sh---
cat $1 | perl -pe 's/(\w+)/$1.(" dick"," cock"," penis"," pussy"," twat"," vagina")[int rand 24]/eg
this is like a week old. question: i got the server working in FreeBSD as dedicated,
has anyone even tried the X client? i have not attempted. does it work?
Anyone else thinks that the "Related Links" are redundant?
it would have been more fun if it wasnt only multiplayer only. but it still looked fairly promising.
maybe the demo will better.
If the retail supports linux, you can bet yout bottom (and top) dollar that everyone in the local lug wil buy a copy. I think we were all
raised on the original (Fond memories of my
Sony 386sx, man it was fast!) and the new version
looks like a great game in its own right.
*cheers*
Hmm. Shouldn't this be under "Quake III"? Two articles about the test demo in a little less than a week? What's next? One when the Mac version comes out?
Mac RISC is fastest Retrunrn to Wolfenstein engine.
ftp://ftp.idsoftware.com/idstuff/wolf/osx/
has b7 of the mac client. the pc files you need are hosted in a 69 megabyte mac download at ExtremeSims gaming site.
Return to Castle Wolfenstein is fastest on Mac hardware. The developer at id released a few versions this week for Mac OS X (FreeBSD derivitive) using OpenGL and optimized for multiple processors.
In standard configurations of resonable resolution a modern mac acieved over three hundred percent more animation frames than a wintel box sporting dual 800 Mhz Pentium.
The MP nature of the Mac and is highly vectorizable Altivec processors designed to be used from C source code versus hand tweaked MMX assembler give a phenominal edege to the mac.
The mac has usually performed best but at a high cost. This day is no different.
But I would bet a Dual 1.3 Ghz Athlon MP with decent ram and the same video card as the mac would also get less perfromance.
Slashdot mentioned this this week but no people chose to remark on the one of many hundreds of existing bechmarks that show off the G4 chips. (MPEG2 compression, ByteMark, Photoshop filters, and many more exist.)
Everyone should give this game a try. I've played it all week.
One problem i see on the net a lot is that newbies continually think its fun to join the Nazi army and then act as sabateurs and spies. The game almost seems to promote this with its stupid "free kill" mode between battles where shooting teammates is not tabulated. Luckily "limbo" mode lets you switch viewpoints to other players eyes and learn where the allied spies are hiding... typically at the bottom of stairwells with machine guns.
I just heard some sad news on talk radio - Horror/Sci Fi writer Stephen King was found dead in his Maine home this morning. There weren't any more details. I'm sure everyone in the Slashdot community will miss him - even if you didn't enjoy his work, there's no denying his contributions to popular culture. Truly an American icon
i tend to agree with SilentChris on this one...maybe RTCW should have it's own topic, like quake does.
another "quality" nivelo9 comment
Well, what an idiot...... "LETS POST A LINK DIRECTLY TO THE MAIN FTP ON SLASHDOT!"
/. load IF more people would utilize it.
Maybe someone kind enough to share might want to mirror the linux release. This is crazy that jon_c posted a direct link and michael approved it.
Maybe next time posting the game to freenet first would be a good idea. Freenet is now a stable enough network to handle a
Ever need an online dictionary?
Go kill this one, too. I have my copy :-)
/ linux/wolfmptest-0.7.16-1.x86.run>GET IT HERE</a>
ftp://ftp.cdrom.com/pub/idgames/idstuff/wolf/l
inux/wolfmptest-0.7.16-1.x86.run
<a href=ftp://ftp.cdrom.com/pub/idgames/idstuff/wolf
The link might work if slashcode doesn't kill the html by breaking the line *sigh*
Can some kind sole put this on a fast mirror? Maybe kernel.org?
I'm impressed. This games preview is sweeeet. If this is a taste of what's to come, we're in for a treat.
I am Lord Snowbeam. Heed my call!
Go kill this one, too. I have my copy :-)
ftp://ftp.cdrom.com/pub/idgames/idstuff/wolf/l
inux/wolfmptest-0.7.16-1.x86.run
GET IT HERE
The link might work if slashcode doesn't kill the html by breaking the line *sigh*
Who wants to bet someone is working on this even as we speak?
"It is a greater offense to steal men's labor, than their clothes"
by the way the israeli's like to kill muslims and so do WE, hey pathan gay power, WE HINDU'S ARE THE MANLIEST, READ THE ARTICLES ON THIS WEBSITE ABOUT THE MUSLIM GENOCIDE, AND HOW WE LOVE TO HARASS AND RAPE MUSLIM WOMEN,
We created pakistan for you bastards and we will not rest till each and every muslim motherr fuker is wiped out of INDIA.
JAI HINDU RASHTRA(brahmans, dalits, kshatriya, vaishnav's, buddhists, jain's, sikhs)
WUAHHAHAHAHA wuahahhahahaha later loserssss!!!!
All the hubbub has sent me back to Wolfenstein 3D and Spear of Destiny, the best ID software games ever. I miss those wonderful grid-based levels, with their unflinching portrayal of Nazis at their evil utmost, and your good old american Joe going out to kill 'em. I reccomend digging up a copy of Wolfenstein 3D, First Encounter though it's not available for linux, if you want to feel some serious nostalgia.
My Karma is so good, I'm the Dalai Lama...or something.
http://wolfgl.sourceforge.net/
It works rather well (I ordered the commemorative edition of Wolf3D Activision released a few years back) with both the original Wolfenstein 3-D and the sequel, Spear of Destiny.
:wq
I understand, you KNOW the US hasn't learned from the experience of the British and Soviets because of your privileged access to the top secret briefings going on in Washington. Nice to know that the crack Slashdot editorial team has top secret, eyes only access.
Oh, right, forgive me. You are relying on your vast military experience. You numerous years in the Army, Air Force, Navy and Marines. Your high rank. I forget, did you retire as an Admiral, or as a General? Or was it both?
Oh, I'm sorry, I'm mistaken. You are relying on the broad, but also deep, education you received on your way to a Ph.D. in both political science and history.
Or is it that you have no idea what you are talking about.
It will be a long time before i will get on an airplane with a towel head on it. You never can tell and the attitude that the US has about "trust everyone" is what got us here in the first place. I had to fly home from Phoenix today and had there been one raghead on that plane, he would have got off or I would. I will not apologize for what is a reasonable concern in this current world atmosphere
Hey face it, Nazis are cool. They have cool uniforms and slick weapons. Very hip.
The original was years earlier! ?Years before Carmack or ID. The original was by MUSE software and called Castle Wofenstein. It had digital Speech (german too!) and was for a 1978 Apple with at least 48K RAM Or an Apple II from a year later. The game came out in the Apple II heydey.. It came out in 1982. It was a million dollar hit.
I played it to death and then hacked it to another v ersion with other sprites and sounds.
Guys in Michigan did the same and called it Castle Smurfenstein, with smurfs instead of nazis and happy smurf music in the beginning.
There was no Sony 386sx or any other wintel PC in existence. In fact the PC came out in the END of 1982 in November at Sears for 600 dollars and 64K ram with no floppy, just cassette tape port and no color.
you are of by GENERATIONS buddy.
I remember Carmack begging for people to help him code Wolfenstein 3d in 1992 on the San Francisco Dr Dobbs BBS. He used a NeXT and it had released versions for many systems.... INCLUDING apple II gs eventually.
They are cooler than cool, uniform wise.... there is a book, now stolen, from the unprotected archives of the University of Michigan, that shows ALL the uniforms of all the german troops of every rank and every season.
The ultimate: the White winter SS Officers Uniform.
Its stunning and so futuristic. It looks like something out of a lucas sci fi movie.
I went back one year to look at that book and its gone. Its gone along with lots of other priceless ww2 era books.
Why hasn't this series died? I will give it credit in that it is cutting-edge gaming. But it boils down to that fact this is anti-German propaganda. It is revolting. After playing this game, I think many people will go to Germany expecting everyone to have horns and devil tails.
The fact is many of the soldiers in WWII on both sides had families - mothers, wives, and children. Many soldiers in WWII on both sides fought what they believed in (and sometimes not). Remember too, that a lot of the German people did not know of the internment camps. They were all just normal people fighting for their country - they weren't evil.
And what if the roles were reversed? What if you played the game as a German soldier killing "greedy" Jewish businessmen? Imagine the uproar! So why is it different when you kill those "evil" German soldiers?
Remember this when you go to a Hollywood film about WWII and it claims to be based on a true story. Yes, there was a World War II, but that's precisely where the "true story" part ends.
The original was years earlier! ?Years before Carmack or ID. The original was by MUSE software and called Castle Wofenstein. It had digital Speech (german too!) and was for a 1978 style Apple with at least 48K RAM Or an Apple II from a year later. The game came out in the Apple II heydey.. It came out in 1982. It was a million dollar hit.
I played it to death and then hacked it to another version with other sprites and sounds.
Guys in Michigan did the same and called it Castle Smurfenstein, with smurfs instead of nazis and happy smurf music in the beginning.
The apple game came first. In fact the IBM PC came out in the END of 1982 in November at Sears for 600 dollars and 64K ram with no floppy, just cassette tape port and no color.
I remember Carmack begging for people to help him code Wolfenstein 3d in 1992 on the San Francisco Dr Dobbs BBS. He used a NeXT and it had released versions for many systems.... INCLUDING apple II gs eventually.
If you're like me and have added libsafe to /etc/ld.so.preload to watch for buffer overflow attempts (an awesome package, I might add), you'll get the following when trying to connect to a game or host your own, which of course exits the game:
/usr/local/games/wolfenstein/wolf.x86.
Libsafe violation detected on [machinename] at Sun Sep 23 00:25:03 2001
Libsafe version 2.0
Detected an attempt to write across stack boundary.
Terminating
uid=0 euid=0 pid=10151
Call stack:
0x4001b465
0x4001b61e
Overflow caused by memcpy()
Interested in open source engine management for your Subaru?
When they first released the Windows version, I rebooted to Windows (first time in months) to try it out. It was awesome. I thought I wouldn't get anything done. Then Windows crashed. I tried again, and Windows crashed. After 10-15 crashes I decided not to bother anymore. Productivity was restored.
:)
Now that it's available for Linux, productivity is guaranteed to decline. *sigh* Oh well.
...or is Linux only supposed to have closed-source software on one platform?
This game, much like other Open Source simulation tools such as Flight Gear, may be used as terrorist training tools by Osama bin Laden and his cronies.
I am ashamed to call myself an American (er, actually I'm NOT AmeriKKKan -- thank god -- but if I were, I'd be ashamed to call myself one).
Incidentally, its the same as the Win32 and Mac except its for Linux!! Was this really worthy of a story when the test has already been discussed here?
Have any search and rescue teams made it to the site yet? I wonder what they have found. I also heard some murmurings about receiving a signal from a black box at the Pentagon a few days ago but nothing more. Am I missing something here or is everybody else?
My cat's breath smells like cat food.--R. Wiggums
I can't join any of those server, i got a progress bar and then it dumped me on the main screen? anyone has the same problem?
the famous violinist
hello? stuff that matters? It's another fucking video game for christs sake!
the gherkin. Please assuage your hard on for current events in a less annoying way. Paint an American flag on a pocket pussy and get it out of your system!
Comment removed based on user account deletion
There are good Muslims. There were good Germans. There are no good terrorists. There were no good Nazis.
These are easy things to understand. What I don't understand:
Which of the above statements confuses you? Do you realize that this racist apologist shit makes you sound like a Nazi yourself?
will there be a map where one side are the nazis, the other the allies.. and the nazi's try and get everyone into a gas chamber?
The Slashdot Effect: A new for
here is another mirror for the full linux install:
- 1. x86.run
http://mango.ldg.net/~joerger/wolfmptest-0.7.16
02:21:55 (193.93 KB/s) - `wolfmptest-0.7.16-1.x86.run.1' saved [67861928]
I had plans to make a columbine map for UT where you shot football players and people wearing tommy shirts. Never made it off the drawing board though. Just think of the flack you would get for something like that.
Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
Hope that for everyone who didn't get it from id software's ftp site that this link works: http://www.3ddownloads.com/?file_id=152201. That should get you three ftp sites to grab the full version.
Cheers!!
/pj
My point?! Bob Dole doesn't need a point! You... cocklick!
Israel has cock considered many options in dealing dick with twat the
pussy threat cock. In penis August, Israeli deputy public vagina security
minister, Gidon Ezra, called for eliminating penis the pussy relatives
cock of suicide bombers as twat a deterrent. Radio Monte Carlo on 22
August aired twat the possible Hamas cock response to such vagina an
Israeli policy in an interview with Sheikh cock Yassin cock who cock said:
This means that he would give the twat Palestinian resistance men the
justification to kill pussy all Israelis who have relatives working in the
ranks cock of the Israeli army. Ezra also penis suggested burying twat
suicide vagina bombers with penis pig skin or pussy blood cock, defiling
the pussy corpse twat and thereby making dick the shaheed ineligible for
holy twat martyr status with a promised dick place cock in heaven vagina.
Hmm cock. Shouldn't vagina this pussy be cock under "Quake III"? Two
articles dick about the test demo vagina in a dick little less twat than a
week? What twat's dick next vagina? One when the pussy Mac version comes
out?
8 bit graphics, chests of cannonballs that end the entire game, and the occasional bottle of Schnapps. Who could ask for more?
e +W olfenstein
http://www.theunderdogs.org/game.php?name=Castl
A lot of obits were overlooked because of the enormity of the other stories in the news. You may remember Dorothy McGuires's touching performance in the role of Katie Nolan, the mother in A Tree Grows In Brooklyn. She was very attractive and sweet like the "girl-next-door". I really liked her.
Heaven on Earth: America without Arabs, Jews, Negroes, and Spics, a pure White America. That will be the best America someday. Europe needs to be cleaned out too. This Arab terrorist thing has a silver lining - a whole lot of non-whites are going to be deported back to their mud huts.
I can eat the dog chow items when my health drops to dangerous levels. Or, better yet, all the time! :)
-- I'll cut you up so bad, you'll wish I'd never cut you up so bad!
Hi,
Linux gaming. Well it's coming along nicely. It's great that Id & Activision have the foresight and altruism to even bother doing this. I applaud them for that, it's almost brave!
RTCW is a great game & I can't wait for the full version, I've been enjoying it all week.
But I have to ask "Is there anything like the Microsoft Sidewinder Gamevoice for Linux?"
I don't mean the voice-over-ip part. I mean the voice control part. You see, seeing as there are 33 or so radio commands in the game it's a fantastic leap forward to be able to strap your headset mike on and operate them via voice.
Instead of typing v 2 1 to call for a medic all I have to do is say "medic", or "cover me" or any of the 33 commands. If I want to change weapons I say "knife" or "pistol" or "grenade" instead of fumbling around for the 1 2 or 4 key.
So is there any voice control software that would easily slot into a Linux setup to do this kind of work? Naturally it hurts to give Microsoft some $ but you can't warez the usb device!
There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
Anyone else remember Barneystein? It was a patch to the shareware version of Wolfenstein 3D. The guards were replaced by Beavis & Butthead, and the boss was a large Barney the Dinosaur whose weapon was his terrible singing voice. If you were hit with one of his flying musical notes, you were surely screwed!
Very funny, and added some extra play value to the game.
-- I'll cut you up so bad, you'll wish I'd never cut you up so bad!
Damn sleazyspace must have took it off the server. Sorry 'bout that. 'f you still need it, I can email it to you.
If god had intended you to be naked, you would have been born that way.
I must be dumb or something... but how do you install this? I know .rpm and .sh... but not .run... help?
...if you're interested in what type of vengeance yearlong battering by jocks will trigger. Just imagine if they'd succeeded: The look on Bin Laden's face upon noticing that he'd been beaten to the punch by a couple of high-school kids would have been priceless...
Yeah , like I've got 24 hours to wait for that
to download over my modem link.
Christ , surely they can put together a couple
of megabyte demo. Maybe the game engine plus a
few rooms/enemies etc for those of us who don't
have broadband yet and don't get free local calls.
I even installed a spare 2GB SCSI drive just for Win98. I haven't booted Windows since like February. I think. I thought I'd be consumed by RtCW, and I was for a while. Then Windows crashed. It kept crashing. I got frustrated and yanked the drive out of my box. Problem is that I decided to try and get SiN working on my GeForce2. I spent much more time with WINE than I did with RtCW, which is probably good since I learned something.
I have grave fears that I might not get nearly as much off-hours learning and personal development done now that they have a Linux version. I was just getting bored with Tribes2, and figured that I could play with Tomcat. I don't think I'll get very far with that now...
-B
Ash and Hickory, straight-grained and true, make excellent bludgeons, dandy for the cudgeling of vegetarians.
..has a lot more to worry about Desktop/User-Interface wise than game-wise.
First things first: all users need write access to your install dir . Saving individual settings to home dirs hasn't been implemented yet.
Linux wise, its the standard loki install. This util is still too stupid to ask for your root password, so substitute users first. Works happily with Mesa or NVidia/SGIs OpenGL implementation. No KDE / GNOME icons but I'm sure they'll be there in the non-alphas.
The game also occasionally started unusually slow. It was running at my desktop res - 1600 x 1200, and needed to be set down to 640 x 480 on my GeForce2MX (tho apparently these requirements will go down, and one of the weapons has a tendency to increase lag dramatically, which might account for my lack of frames). The game uses a lot of polygons, especially for the outside areas in this demo. The maps feel a little like Quake 3 Team Arena - wide open natural spaces with buildings thrown around them. The map in this demo has a lot of fotifications, including mounted weapons one can take control of.
Gameplay wise: Feels a lot like Unreal Tournament's Assault mode. This multiplayer test is a team game where the allies must storm an Axis beachfront, find some documents, and take them to a radioo room. There's different roles, Lieutenant, Soldier, Medic, and Engineer.
The Engineer has TNT to can blow up walls, can disable other peoples TNT, and has pliers which I think might cut through the barbed wire.
The medic hands out medikits. When you die on Wolf, you lay on the ground and be wounded. You can either sit there and wit for a medic from your team, or die immediately and respawn when the next `reinforcement' interval comes up.
The Soldier has a much wider range of weapons than the other two, including a massive gattling gun and the worlds first realistic video game flamethrower.
Neither I, nor anyone else, played Lieutenant.
Work a laugh: There's no swatikas, and the Allies flag is a US one. They're bowing down to the censorship idiots and offending those who actually fought at the same time. Oh well, its just a game...
Based on this study, FreeBSD has 20 times the marketshare of Windows2000 and the soon to be released WindowsXP. Please, next time post facts, not fud
Sincerely, Mike Bouma
If you want something to check your favourite servers with, I suggest XQF CVS.
You also might want to peruse the Linux Wolfenstein FAQ while downloading.
If that doesn't help you, check the Linux Quake 3 Arena FAQ for similar problems.
Check out ioquake3.org for a great, free, First-Person Shooter engine!
I would really like to see a PowerPC version of this. Many companies have released linux versions of their games, however most ignore the PowerPC completely. My linux box is PowerPC, and I would like to be able to run a Castle Wolfenstein server.
Well, there isn't *Windows version*. The -nomedia file is useful when you already installed the *WINE* version.
:wq
You can't actually *do* anything in it... it's locked into 'spectator mode'. This isn't made clear in the article (you do get to watch all the windows users killing each other though).
I wasn't impressed anyway... it's just counterstrike by another name, except it's stupidly CPU hungry - certainly my Dual Proc 800 + Geforce couldn't handle it without grinding to a halt every few seconds.
When I first started the client, it shut down with an error: "...loading libGL.so: QGL_Init: Can't load libGL.so from /etc/ld.so.conf or current dir". The problem is due to the fact that the NVidia GL lib is located in /usr/lib/GL, with a symbolic link to /usr/lib/libGL.so.
/usr/lib/GL/libGL.so.1.0.1512.nv_glx /usr/local/games/wolfenstein/libGL.so". A symbolic link in this directory did not work.
Problem was solved by doing a "cp
Although, this port was done by one guy at id, and in just a few days from start to finish, so maybe this particular linux port will generate a better than negative revenue stream.
Hopefully they will release a Linux version of the final product, and hopefully they will have a way to gauge how many people use it, and hopefully everyone who uses Linux and plays these kinds of games will buy it. hint hint, please drop a little money in support of gaming on Linux if you care about it at all ; )
Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken - Tyler Durden
I know there's no longer any First post, but this I my first post ever on /. so I thought I'd make it first post!
is this the game that will de-throne Cheator-Strike..errrr I mean Counter Strike?
Wow, 10 hours later and there still aren't any posts +3 or higher. I guess the moderators are too busy playing the game. Way to go id!
I just heard some sad news on talk radio - Tech/Slashdot writer Jonathon Katz was found dead in his Ohio home this morning. There weren't any more details. I'm sure everyone in the Slashdot community will miss him - even if you didn't enjoy his work, there's no denying his contributions to popular culture. Truly a Geek icon
ftp://ftp.cdrom.com/pub/idgames2/idstuff/wolf/linu x/
:)
I just downloaded it at 400k/sec, only took ~2 minutes
until (succeed) try { again(); }
The Windows version didn't work right for some reason, maybe because it was running in windows. The Linux version is GREAT, in fact the rendering is faster than it was in windows. I'm looking forward to the full version.
Sure, give it a try.
Most of the key binding will work in Wolfenstein, because that part of the engine is almost the same as Quake 3.
Although you will have some problems with the team-based stufff like the communicator and the limbo menu. Therefore you have to bind these extra keys in the Wolf configuration menu which shouldn't be much of a hassle.
Well it worked after making the usr/local/games/wolf* dir group owned by my user and chmod g+w *...
I see several posts of the CDROM.COM mirror... here's another one, it's http:
Download Link
Hrrrm. I for one thougt that was informative. But, hey, I'm not a moderator.
I got it running fine changed my options and what not but everytime I try and connect to a server I get knocked back to the original screen.
I thought he died in the WTC on 9-11. I heard he was writting a new book where some monster would go around the world killing dumbass AC /. kiddies, guess we'll never know.
This is great, I run a dualboot 800mhz duron box with an asus GF3 and 512 Megs of pc133. Win98se and RedHat 7.1 ( with 2.4.3-12 kernel )
I ran the win32 Test ( with det 4 drivers ) at 1024x768 and 16bit textures. I was getting frame rates in the range of 9 to 32
I ran the linux Test ( with det 3 drivers ) at 1280 x 1024 and 32bit textures. I wasn't getting any frame rate below 45.
I'm going to pin this one up as a victory for linux games. When Wolf comes out, I am going to buy the linux version even if I need to wait for a while. Is anyone else having the same types of results from the two tests?
Math is like sex. People who get it are popular in class, people who don't are not.
I see a version for Windows and a version for Linux/x86, but no version for MAC or LinuxPPC. Curious.
I submitted an article about the Mac OS X version last week. Big deal if there is a Linux version. The point that makes my post "News for Nerds. Stuff that matters." is that I quoted Graeme Devine. The Mac OS X version is three times the framerate as that of the Windows version on the _same MHz machine._
OF course, since it wasn't about linux, it got rejected.
Idiots.
It works fine with Wine release 20010824!
I have a very small mind and must live with it.
-- E. Dijkstra
Exactly.
Hypermedia, virtual worlds, human interface, truth, beauty.
There is a version for Mac OS X, but not for Classic. Check out www.macgamefiles.com
Shades of Grayden
But if you're suggesting that I run Windows all the time, then I'd rather "waste" my time playing with Linux. I'm all for the right tool for the job. I'm just not sure what job Windows is right for. Secretarial work, maybe. Whatever it is... I can't take Windows. You don't learn very much trying to get Explorer not to crash.
-B
Ash and Hickory, straight-grained and true, make excellent bludgeons, dandy for the cudgeling of vegetarians.