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Microsoft Starts Legal Fight Over Lindows Name
actappan writes: "Whether or not Lindows is real, this article on CNET News.com indicates that Microsoft intends to sue them into oblivion. Looks like supression remains the best way to promote innovation." cyberlawyer adds: "Some of you may remember that MS originally had great difficulty obtaining a trademark for the generic term 'Windows' but was eventually able to pay off those who had filed letters of protest to the granting of the mark including Sun, Oracle, and Borland. As a trademark lawyer I (unhappily) have to admit that Lindows probably has a weak case. Of course it's never too late to bring a cancellation action based on genericide ;-)" CodeWheeney contributes a link to coverage at Yahoo, too.
Looks like supression remains the best way to promote innovation.
:)
<tongue-in-cheek>
There's nothing quite as innovative as an operating system with the sole goal of reimplementing APIs from other operating systems until it can run their binaries.
</tongue-in-cheek>
The name is not "Windows" but "Lindows" which gives the impression that it's not Windows but somehow connected to Windows.
Therefore I see no problem in the name, if Microsoft were truly believers of free competition and innovation they'd leave this alone. The only time to complain is if they try and con people into thinking this project has a connection to Microsoft.
I think windows should be a generic term anyway, whether I'm running Windows, X or BeOS I call those boxes on the screen 'windows', therefore any derivatives of the name should be allowed I think.
Ah, perfect. Don't change the name; just slap on the Aqua interface and ship it. This is the legal equivalent of a honeypot.
--saint
Linus has just as good a case... Lindows starts with Lin, which is over half of the name Linux.
How about Windex?
Oh, wait...damn...
Microsoft is in grave danger of trademark dilution here. I mean, if they were a monopoly and the vast majority of OS users ran Windows, I wouldn't say, but as a fragile company with such a small name recognition, it's important that potential new customers don't get confused by a sneaky new startup who just wants to make a free buck out of a competitors honestly earned and well deserved success ...
If that was so, it wouldn't be in direct competition with Microsoft.. hence, they would have less of a problem :)
I've seen a lot of "IANAL"s discussing issues like this, but, for once, IAAL. (maybe IAAAL? I am actually a lawyer ;).
Anyways, Microsoft's claim is entirely legitimate. 'Lindows' is in the same "industry" as 'Windows', and is intentionally abusing the popularity of Windows for its own benefit.
This is the same as coming up with an electronics company called Panasoanic -- there is the potential for legitimate consumer confusion.
I know it's unpopular to side with Microsoft on something, but for once they're in the right here.
As a copyright/trademark lawyer, I'm hoping the courts make the right decision and force Lindows into a name change.
- Dave Brennins
http://www.davebrenninslaw.org
dave@davebrenninslaw.org
It's software that combines Linux and Windows without violating any trademark or copyright--although I bet Microsoft will sue at some point.
Guess they were right!
This is great publicity. So maybe they have to change the name. "Lindows" is a stupid name for a product, anyway.
Are my Window Managers infringing? Oh no! I'm so confused. Will Lindows blow like M$? Say it ain't so.
DMCA, Hollings, Palladium. What might have sounded like paranoia is now common sense.
I say that we fight Microsoft by refering to all OS's as 'Windows.'
Hopefully this will cause Microsoft to lose the trademark name 'Windows' because it will become generic from over usage.
-cibrPLUR
"If they're alleging that people are going to be confusing Microsoft Corp. with Lindows.com, I think there's zero potential of that happening," he said. "If people are confused, just remember that we're not the convicted monopolist."
Murchinson said Microsoft considered legal action a last resort.
I'm still laughing!
On Murchinson's comment, it can't be a 'last' resort because they don't stop. When you play monopoly do you just plain give up?
I don't think suing them will be the last step - it's their first. They can sue easily, they have lawyers. It's like a Soviet Tank rush in Red Alert 2.. hit your enemy before they can build anything, then they can't get back at you; kill slowly from there.
Windows has become a product of it's own. Not an 'os' anymore. Instead of changing people to linux, change their flavor of windows.
Get your Unix fortune now!
This reminds me of the movie "Coming To America"
They're Mac Donalds; I'm Mic Dowell's.
They've got the Golden Arches; We've got the Golden Arcs.
They got the Big Mac; We got the Big Mic.
We both have 2 all beef pattties, special sauce, but they have a sesame seed bun. Our buns have no seeds.
Yes i may be replying to a troll, but perhaps hes legit..
there is and has never been anything called X-Windows (AFAIK - anyway MIT's X window system is not called X-Windows).
there was X11
then XFree
Sometime along the lines they merged.. and im not sure of exactly what its called now.. i just know it is a mix of both systems.
when everything is working perfectly.. BREAK SOMETHING before something else FUCKS up!
Why doesn't the state of Mississippi sue the crap out of Microsoft? The abbreviation for Mississippi is MS, and so is Microsoft. Hmmmm. I bet the state would lose and have to change its name. I may be on to something here.
Think about it, Michael Mann could make The Insider, Part Two. Instead of taking on tobacco companies it would be about monopolizing software companies. Anthony Michael Hall can play Bill Gates again, and we can bring Russel Crowe back and have the two go at it in some kind of virtual reality gladiator thing.
...All I can say is that my life is pretty strange...
I think the Lindows people /knew/ from the beginning
that MS would spend /their money/ to give the
Lindows a little industry spotlight ;-) Kudos guys.
What f*ing box!?!?
Maybe they should call it 'L'. People can then informally call it the L-windows system but in court they can just turn round and say "no yer honour, it's called L, not L-windows, we can't control what everyone else calls it".
-- SIGFPE
Already attacking the competition before the competition even exits the gate.
Must be Microsofts new strategy, kill all companies who have threatening names!
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
Call it "Winux" instead
;)
Adobe was able to make Killustrator change its name to Kontour. Unfortunately, if that went through, I don't see much hope for Lindows...
Actually, this makes perfect sense. They're basically doing this as an arguement against the monopoly charge. A real threat to the way they do business. of course, it's just a technicality that the software in question isn't available for sale yet.
Not saying i agree with it though. And as logical as it seems, if they win, they're proving that they stifle competition through any means available.
The suit asks the court to order the start-up to stop using the Lindows name and also seeks unspecified monetary damages
How can they sue for money? has Lindows actually damaged them in someway? If they want them to change the name, fine, let them try, but how much can they really ask for?
Maybe i'll sue all the Jason's in the world for using MY name. No, i'll sue anyone who's name ends with -son. get them to change their names AND give me money for my effort.
How about those who call it Lye-nucks? Then they'd pronounce this Line-does. No confusion there. MS doesn't have a case.
"If he thinks he can hide and run from the United States and our allies, he's sorely mistaken." Bush on bin Laden
With all that lawsuits from/for Microsoft, mabye we will see a "Microsoft DOJ" soon...
Speaking on the topic, M$ seems to just sue their "potential competitors", in fact small companies with (for most) great ideas. Theses companies can't afford the costs for the lawsuit and are forced to close. After that, M$ stole a good idea (mabye from that company), put the Microsoft name on it and sell it.
M$ is going to be everywhere (this is their dream). From PCs to game consoles, telephones, etc. I expect TVs soon (Heh, they should try vacuum cleaner... a good way to suck...). Can we call that "monopoly" ? Will they sue the dictionnaries because there is the words "Windows" and "office" in it ? Do people will wake up when they will live on planet "Windows Earth" ?
let the evil bastards sue, it only makes them look bad
The difference between Canada and the USA is that in Canada healthcare is a right and gun ownership is a privilege.
Similarly, Microsoft Corp. has decided to sue the cattle industry for allowing their cows to graze in meadows[tm], and the sun for casting shadows[tm].
The soft "L" sound is so phonetically close to the soft "W" sound that you could mistake one for the other over the telephone.
Besides, it doesn't matter. It's close enough that, by the "reasonable man" standard, it's nearly exact.
I got my Linux laptop at System76.
check that ultimate board page!
:)
michael robertson has a comment on december 10th
and then all comments are from a user called "reply"..
they're mostly posted on the same day..
they pretend to be from lost of various people
praising the upcoming system..
if you check reply's profile
the email is "comments@lindows.com"..
i have not seen as ridiculous in a long time!
/// evilloop.com
it is not the final determiner in court. Even a well known mark may become a generic term. For instance, Bayer lost the mark to "asprin." "Kleenex" became a generic term. Microsoft can show their trademark registeration form until they are blow in the face, but, to their disadvantage, the more widely used the term becomes, the more likely Microsoft will lose the mark.
Microsoft dug their own hole right off the bat. A good test: "What is [it] called?" If the mark is [it] then it is likely to become a generic term. Trademark attorneys have done a great job applying this test by combining additional terms to a potentially generic mark. For instance, perhaps Apple wanted to call their notebooks, "Books." Instead, they merely attached the "i" and the mark became unique.
Windows? Wthelse are these things to be called? That's generic. And Microsoft has lost any unique attributes to the mark.
"There ought to be limits to freedom"
This is a very general post about trademark/name law; I'll leave the details to the /. lawyers out there.
Having the exact same name is not always automatically a trademark infringement; it depends on the nature of your business, the uniqueness of the name, and whether your product could reasonably be confused with the product of the other guy.
I assume MS's lawers are going after the fact that Lindows is offering a product that is likely to be confused with an Operating System. If Lindows was a hamburger chain the suit wouldn't fly.
Examples:
Apple (Records of Beatles fame) and Apple (Computer); Royal this and Royal that; and as someone pointed out NT (Microsoft) and NT (Northern Telecom, which we know know as NorTel); you could probably add "XP" everything lately.
Apple Computer actually had an out-of-court settlement with Apple Records agreeing not to enter the "music" business. At the time Apple was a small company and a little gun-shy about being threatened with a lawsuit by the Beatles, of all people, so they came to an agreement instead. When the time came for multimedia on the desktop, they just went ahead; Apple Records declined to pursue it.
Why? Well look at his website and see why.
Gates is GOD
Hes the true founder of open source.
The creator of the GUI.
The creator of the first web browser.
The creator of the instant messager.
The creator of the word proessor.
The creator of C++, Visual Basic, J++.
The man who literally fuels the success of the world wide web.
The man who helped steve jobs create MacOS.
The Creator of DOS.
And Finally the man who created (x)indows.
So before you go starting any corperation which steals from this mans innovation, think twice, or you might just get sued.
Open Source people, watch out, because you are next. Just wait for the launch of Microsoft Linux and the original founder of open source Bill Gates will take Linux as hes done with everything else into the mainstream.
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
You guys have got it all wrong. This is the best thing that ever happened to Lindows.
Until now, I'd guess that about 1% of the computer using population has heard of Lindows. What better publicity is there than getting into a lawsuit with Microsoft? Making CNET and ZDNET headlines is a dream come true for them.
This lawsuit also legitimizes the development work they've done as far as the public is concerned. After all, Microsoft wouldn't sue them if they weren't a real threat.
And finally, they're going to be forced to ditch the knock-off name. That surely wasn't helping them any.
I wonder how long it will be before the first post comes along from a 14 year old kneejerk antiwindows fanatic that says.. "IANAL, but Lindows *DOES* have a good case..."
Of course we know that Lindows is not officially connected with Microsoft ... but remember, 99.9% of the public (and even most IT majors, according to that article from a couple days back) thinks that Linux is made by a company of the same name. Most people outside the Linux community would be confused into thinking that Lindows is either:
a) Microsoft's version of Linux
b) Linux for Microsoft Windows
c) Microsoft Windows for Linux
or some other permutation thereof that implies an official connection with/endorsement by Microsoft.
Cheers,
IT
Power corrupts. PowerPoint corrupts absolutely.
Second, this isn't about copyrights. It's about trademarks. And if someone pops up in your market with an extremely similar name and a product that aims to subsume the functionality of yours, it is not unreasonable to consider that an infringement of your trademark.
You're splitting some pretty fine hairs if you consider these products to be in different markets.. they're both operating systems for x86 computers, and the entire point of Lindows is to offer the same functionality (and then some) of Windows.
Sorry, but MS is in the right on this one.
Murchinson said Microsoft considered legal action a last resort.
"Clearly we prefer to work with them to resolve this problem voluntarily. Their product name infringes on our trademark," Murchinson said. "We hope they will work with us to resolve this problem without the need for legal action."
Sobbing, he continued: "Oh why do they Force us to sue them! It hurts me right here, (Murchinson placed his hand over his heart and looks to the heavens) whenever we have to sue them."
Murchinson then, with the tears still streaming down his cheeks and shaking his head, pushed a lonely red button on his desk.
Moments later, cruel hordes of fur clad lawyers on enormous horses, gravely swinging rusted and blood stained battle axes, thrusting their hardened leather shields toward the brooding skies, with packs angry mastifs biting and growling at their hideously spurred heals, rode ravenous toward yet another glorious conquest.
Murchinson listened as the horrible clamor of the viciously armed force recedeed in to the wind. Finally he concluded the interview, "if only they hadn't forced me to do this, if only we could have worked something out..."
Thinking of that poor man, Murchinson, nearly brings tears to my eyes as well. It's just tragic how he so truly didn't want to sue them, but had to... sigh... It just breaks my heart.
No, this is more analagous to you opening up a fast-food hamburger chain called "McRonald's" with a clown named Donald McRonald for a mascot and a big golden "R" as your logo.
"indows" constitutes nearly every letter and sound in "[WL]indows", and the product is ridiculously similar by intent.
You really have to hand it to Michael Robertson, first he's sued by the RIAA and the Big 5 while at MP3.Com and now MS comes after him.
It appears MS has made a tactical error however, at least MP3.Com had money in the bank to pay the settlements. Lindows is just getting off of the ground. Another one to watch is windux.com
BETHLEHEM (AP): The Christian Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ, announced plans to sue Microsoft for using the name "XP" for its new operating system.
"The monogram of My Name, formed of the two first letters when written in Greek, "X" and "P" [Chi and Rho], has been in use for well over a thousand years in numerous countries. I am therefore insisting that Microsoft cease using "XP" on its products, as that is tantamount to Taking My Name In Vain."
Added Christ, "I mean it. Don't make me come down there..."
I'm a bloodsucking fiend! Look at my outfit!
this article on CNET News.com indicates that Microsoft intends to sue them into oblivion.
Umm, no...
Fucking slashdot editors... I'm through. I contribute to slashdot no more. This is my last post.
ok then your [sic] infringing on my copyright! Could you as [sic] me next time before STEALING my comments for your own?
Conducting additional research on how Microsoft's mark for "Windows" may be generic, I ran across a list of "Trademarks That Have Become Generic." The list includes terms "held by the Trademark Office or a court to be incapable of serving as trademarks for the goods and services they named because they had become, in the minds of consumers, generic terms for those products or services."
So, the test would not be whether Microsoft or a particular judge considers that a mark is a generic term, but if the mark becomes a generic term in the minds of consumers. Perhaps a party could present evidence such as surveys or the online and published usage of a term in a generic sense as a means to describe the thing?
"There ought to be limits to freedom"
How about they call it GNU/Lindows?
--
Mod up a post Rob doesn't like and you'll never mod again
Why not change their name to Licrosoft?
--
Mod up a post Rob doesn't like and you'll never mod again
I think the guys who invented extreme programming should file a claim against Microsoft for infringing on their "XP" trademark.
--
Mod up a post Rob doesn't like and you'll never mod again
I think that this plays right into Lindows.com's strategy. They were probably hoping to get sued by Microsoft, get tons of press, get to take shots at Microsoft in the press, and get to be hailed by all as the underdog.
They probably would have used something like Winux if they hadn't wanted to be a target. How could they not be advised by someone that this would be trademark infringement when naming their company?
$45 per U Colocation Special
Milena, Widow of Connar has sent us:
Death sued for sounding too close to Microsoft's flagship product's name.
Steeve Ballmer (CEO): A lot of people on the internet do jokes about blue screen of DEATH, when people die, we hear about Widows, people KILL their systems after installing non-certified drivers, DEADLY VIRUS are crippling our systems, all this will change. You know how our stupid our userbase is, If people are stupid enough to buy an OS for 300$ instead of going for an OEM version, these same people could be associating death with our flagship product, Windows, we fought really hard to get the trademarks for that name, heck, I even had to look like a complete monkey to get public awareness on our side, Death will either have to cease to exist or change some of it's naming convention. Microsoft will fight death.... to the death if we have to god damn it!.
--- Metamoderating abusive downgraders since my 300th post.
Second, a trademark is a trademark. Whether it's a company name or a product name is irrelevant. Even if for some reason you think it should, in some alternate universe where logic is based primarily on coin flips, be relevant as a matter of degree, you might recognize that Windows is Microsoft's flagship product. Calling your OS "Lindows" is tantamount to naming your company Nicrosoft.
And incidentally, I don't think "Lindows.com" is going to stay in business for very long, and one could make a very sound argument that Microsoft has "earned its place".
See you in hell, dinner plate.
Or Honda vs. Hyunday?
___
If you think big enough, you'll never have to do it.
Well, normally I would say that if they had an ugly website then they probably couldn't afford to fight Microsoft. But upon visitation of lindows.com I think it probably was 'professionally' designed (as in they paid a lot of money for it) but by someone who wouldn't know a good design aesthetic if... I don't know something.
Anyway, these windows people should change their name because its stupid if nothing else.
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
Should be eLindows; after all, with two different letters there is no chance for confusion. If that isn't different enough they can append .com (or better yet, .tv) to the end.
"I'm running eLindows.tv on my computer; it's great! I can run Mikrosoft Office XB, Itneret Exploder, and, uhmm, all those Linux programs I run too!"
Even Slashdot wants to hide some things
They are just like the kuomintang. They should learn from history. They are going to be just as screwed, in the end the only place their software will run is on Taiwanese knockoffs.
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
Maybe the Kompany can sue all the "C"ompany's out there for violating their trademark.
microsoftword.mp3 - it doesn't care that they're not words...
How might Microsofts NON-prosecution of such software as WinZip reflect on this case?
I've often read that in order to maintain a copyright, one must actively defend it. Of such things are MacDonald's "cease and desist" cases against restaurants in Scotland run by someone with the last name of MacDonald.
Such non-prosecution of a known commercial company using just such a partial name link-in can only damage their case in prosecuting someone else who only proposes to also use some letters to do the same thing.
Thoughts?
Bob-
The Ludwig von Mises Institute. The reasoning individuals economics
from "aozilla"
/. mainly the submitter. As aozilla found out...welcome to the club...after it hits you repeatedly you will learn...or not)
/. is:
Fucking slashdot editors... I'm through. I contribute to slashdot no more. This is my last post.
reply to from bankey:
Repeat after me:
Italics is the submitter.
Would you rather the editors alter your words?
Thus spake the Moose:
I only have to say, the one article out of 30 that was accepted was of the title: Microsoft article on Salon.com those were my words.
and the "this article on salon.com" were mine as well. Everything after that I was *grilled*, *filleted* and *slow roasted* for words that were not mine. (I said "interesting idea"..editors says "extensions of MS further monopoly"...granted it was alluded to in the article, but WTF. For the most part, editors don't get grilled on
Clearly "bankey" has no clue what an "editor" does...edits, mangles, destroys, clarifies, distills and after all that puts all the above adjectives in a blender and then diseminates it to a readership.
All I can say to ya'll submitting to
If your article is not thought provoking, inflammitory, the cause of a flame war, MS bashing, Linux bashing or in any way counter to any type of groupthink, RI/MP aa hating...well, I seriously doubt you will utter the words "What was I thinking/smoking" when I submitted *that*.
.
Have you read the moderator guidelines? Well, have you, PUNK? (and I want a Karma: Gnarly option)
X.
Although the name is really XFree86 the common name is X-Windows. How many OSs now run X-Windows? How many platforms?
Can you say damn near all of 'em boys and girls? I knew that you could.
MS has failed to vigorously defend the name Windows. I think the case could be made they've lost rights to that trademark.
The English language is solely defined by your personal predilection.
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
It might confuse Microsoft windows users, true. That's not something I'd want to be arguing in court as a GoodThing(tm) however.
Just copy the successful use of "Win-" that is practiced by many to assure consumers that the product will run on Microsoft Windows.
WinLin
Bob-
The Ludwig von Mises Institute. The reasoning individuals economics
In times like these I often find it helpful to directly reverse the situation to eliminate any bias:
For example, what if Microsoft created and was marketing a product called Minux, which was intended to provide the same functionality as Linux and used unique only to Linux technical and architectural concepts?
Would this not be infringement? Microsoft is dead-on here, and although the Windows trademark is ambigious, you all should remember that it was granted in the first place because the name 'Windows' is in fact unique to the computer industry (whereas a company selling Windows it wouldn't be). When you think of Windows and a computer, you always think of Microsoft.
The real question remains -- is this an attempt to gain the needed press via the Microsoft hypemobile or does the former MP3.com CEO really think he has a chance of winning ala Napster? His remark in the article regarding Microsoft's guilt didn't seem to bright and didn't address the real technical question of is it in fact infringement.
We'll have to see on this one, although I do think this will be good to get Linux in the public eye again and possibly get some major userbases/corporations to look seriously at Linux as a viable alternative.
"I'll just chip in a bit for RedHat: I actually have that installed on my university machine." - Linus, '95
Microsoft claims that "windows" is special and can be trademarked. On the other hand, they claimed (but eventually lost in court) that "Internet Explorer" is a generic term. They claimed that the word "internet" is too generic.
This is just like AOL's claim that Aimster is trying to use the term "Aim" in its name to associate itself with AIM. Since I used to work at Aimster I can tell you that this was certainly the case. The name Aimster was chosen, as one would have guessed in August 2000 when it was released, because it was intended to be a combination of AIM (AOL Instant Messenger) and Napster. Then when it became apparent that AOL was going to pursue this as a trademark infringement and try to get the aimster.com domain, John Deep came up with this crazy story that it's called Aimster because "Aimster" is a nickname for girls named Amy. Then he decided that his daughter (Madeline) would change her name to Aimee.
It's obvious (to me, at least) that "Lindows" is intended to associate the product with both Linux and Windows. It is a good name for the product (though perhaps more than a bit tacky), much as Aimster was a good name for Aimster back in the day. However, the cleverness of the name has the downside that they're also piggybacking on all the work Microsoft has done to establish and protect the Windows trademark, so they'll probably lose, and I think it's probably in their best interest to simply change their product and domain to something else. That's what I suggested to John about Aimster, but of course I was ignored.
Then again, Michael Robertson isn't quite as naive as John, and has a lot more credibility and business sense, so maybe I don't know what I'm talking about at all.
rooooar
How about calling it "Defenestration"?
Nah, too subtle.
--LP
In Trademark law, a company is requires to use it's bran as an adjective.
Examples:
Spam brand Lunch Meat.
Fritos brand Corn Chips.
Chevrolet Motor Division.
By failing to use their trademark in this manor, Microsoft is treading on thin ice.
From our frinds at Hormel:
Proper Trademark Use Guidelines. http://www.spam.com/hp/hp_lg.htm
Always put the trademark SPAM in all capital letters.
Follow SPAM with "Luncheon Meat" or other descriptor. Remember, a trademark is a formal adjective and as such, should always be followed by a noun.
Moneyed corporations, non-working 'poor' and criminal prisoners are turning productive citizens into tax-slaves.
Is Lindows just a fancy marketing campaign for Linux + WINE or is there more to it?
I guess my 'subtle' commented didn't get noticed. This guy, who's username is "gayrod" has a post at +5 simply because he claimed to be a lawyer and inserted a fake URL in his sig.
I mean, I know slashdot mods can be stupid, but this is just unreal.
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
ditto!
-- look, cheese ahoy!
Microsoft is making sure this company gets a lot of publicity.
--
The U.S. government causes problems, then pretends to solve them by creating more: What should be the Response to Violence?
Bush's education improvements were
Even the implied humor is apropos! I'm so subtle I can hardly stand it.
Calling a windowed operating system "Windows" is like naming an automobile "Wheels." It's a generic descriptor, and managing to enforce it as a trademark suggests underhanded legal tactics (in particular scare tactics) against small challengers and generous settlements against large challengers. Either that, or clueless judges, or both.
Remember MS's defense over the Internet Explorer trademark suit? "Internet Explorer" is too general and vague to be a trademark. "Windows" is just the same. Ditto for "Office," "Word," "Access," "Visual BASIC," and any number of similar names used by MS (I have no idea which ones they claim as trademarks by themselves). You seem to be completely ignoring this aspect.
Now, if they were making something that sounded confusingly like "Microsoft Windows," MS would have an airtight case. However, MS should never have had a hope of holding "Windows" alone as a trademark, and that they do is a serious failure of the legal process.
Now, as a lawyer, you are certainly better qualified than I am to predict failures of the legal process; in some areas, I'm sure that common failures are more imporant than the letter of the law. I can't argue with you if you claim that MS will win this, but it is absurd for you to claim that they should win, that a court upholding their exclusive right within the industry to use a standard industry term as a name for the most visible component of their system would be fair and proper.
There should be no problem with having "IBM Windows," "Sun Windows," etc. let alone "Lindows."
Now, this last bit has nothing to do with current law, to the best of my knowledge, but I remember hearing a principle of trademarks that I really wish was law: all linguistic trademarks should consist of a proper noun followed by a descriptive term. Nobody should ever own marketing catchphrases, fictional character names, or descriptive terms as trademarks by themselves. (I don't recall the source)
"...Note that I have deviated from our standard practice and have not included a link to their site. That's because there is nothing there except pure, unadulterated hype.
"For Everyone Smart Enough to Walk Through the Doors, Instead of Crawling in the Windows"
--
"Outlook not so good." That magic 8-ball knows everything! I'll ask about Exchange Server next.
Amazing what good lawyering can do....
What do you mean they cut the power? How can they cut the power, man? They're animals!
If you look at Mac OS X, Apple has done everything they can to host every application that they can. If you have an app that's written for a UNIX, it is easy to port it; if you have an app that's written for any Mac API, it's easy to port it. Same with NeXT and Java2/Swing. Finally, they have a system for running the whole legacy OS and its applications side-by-side with all of that. VirtualPC has also been around forever on the Mac platform, and is native on OS X now, so all the PC stuff is available, too.
... modern machines are plenty fast so you can just confine your DOS to a truly virtual machine).
If an Intel OS vendor were to take that same attitude, they would want to build a UNIX with Win32, Java2/Swing, and maybe OS/2 or anything else from the Intel platform's past. DOS could also be supported somehow (maybe an emulator running actual DOS
If an operating system's function is to host apps, then Intel OS vendors might want to consider not shunning all the apps that have been written for Microsoft operating systems on the Intel platform. Those are "PC" apps, and an Intel OS ought to host them.
Apple makes the hardware on their platform, too, and even then they couldn't get Mac developers to switch to a whole new API when the initial Mac OS X Server was released in 1999. Apple had to bring forward a modern version of the old Mac API in order to bring the apps forward. If you want to bring PC apps forward to an open source UNIX, then they will need a Win32 API to write to.
WINE and similar seem to be sensible projects. No wonder Lindows is getting hassled even when they maybe don't have a project. It's the same kind of way Compaq got into the IBM PC platform, by providing a clone of the hardware for the OS to run on. Now, Linux or BSD could provide a clone of the Win32 API for the apps to run on.
Somebody will eventually build this, probably on BSD, just like Mac OS X. You could also clone Mac OS X, just using the comparable x86 API's. Imagine BSD with built-in Apache and all the UNIX stuff, configured for easy operation like in Mac OS X, but also able to run thousands of Windows apps. Maybe some of the Be GUI stuff would be in on this, rather than X-Windows.
X Windows, the GUI layer sitting on a lot of different operating systems (including, at one stage, MS Windows) has existed almost since MS Windows 1.0. There doesn't seem to have been a contest there.
MIT plus Digital and a few other companies were behind the first version and it has spread to be an industry standard. They don't seem to have any problems.
Lindows is a fantasy name composed from Linux and windows, which is already genericised with respect to computers. It is distinctly different. However MS will win. IP law in the US depends upon one thing, the dollar. If you have more of them, you win, whatever the merits of the case.
See my journal, I write things there
[100% ISO 646 Compliant]
SVM, ERGO MONSTRO.
Disclaimer -> Just got started this morning and I don't feel like reading 400 comments so I may be repeating somebody else thoughts.
Lindows had this planned from the beginning. They knew that by using a deceptively similar name they would get sued and receive tons of free publicity.
What they should focus on instead is providing a quality product and use regular marketing channels. No Linux distributor should ever sink to this level. It makes them no better than Microsoft. There are plenty of creative names out there that they could use. LinuXacross - bridging the gap between Windows(r) and Linux.
On another note -> I want so badly for the Linux community to get off of the friggin' Microsoft kick and start focusing on marketing Linux. Linux should not be about how it is better than Windows but how it is a great open operating system on its own with millions (optimistic) of people around the world contributing applications, drivers, support, etc. all for free. Every time you bash Microsoft to an end user they are going to think - "Man. He needs to get a life."
Well, the Great Grey Lady from the Big Apple objected strenuously to this, so the Infocommies started a contest for a new newsletter name. One contributor suggested, "Call it the New YORK Times. Let's really piss 'em off!"
Millions for defense, but not one penny for tribute, I say!
Like Apple was forced to change the internal code name for project "Sagan", maybe Lindows can change their name to "Buttheaded, Gigalomaniac Software Archictect System", or BGSAS for short.
try { do() || do_not(); } catch (JediException err) { yoda(err); }
Sounds reasonable to me, unless Microsoft intends to trademark the whole alphabet.
People called it X Windows because X isn't namey enough.
Microsoft's practice of trademarking common words (Windows, Word, Office) was a stroke of genius, because it made people include the Microsoft when speaking about the product. "Hey, Bob, I got Office last week" is a bit misleading.
Perhaps they should rename their company to Lindows and call their produce Operating System.
And they essentially HAVE! McSleep was a motel chain that was sued (and lost) because McDonalds wanted to protect their trademark. McSleep was a MOTEL which had to change its name because the McDonalds RESTAURANT was afraid people would associate the two. Ridiculous, maybe, but then many people probably WOULD associate them. Essentially, anything you add Mc in front of probably will be sued by McDonalds. Microsoft is doing the same thing. Sorry. It leaves a bad taste in my mouth, but it sure seems like an (unfortunately) legitimate claim. Proving "Windows" is a generic term is a different issue (which would solve the problem, I think).
As an alternative name, how about "WinLinux" or "Win With Linux"? Would "Win" be too close to Windows? Would knowing that X-Windows has existed since before Microsoft Windows help the fight? How about "LX-Windows" or "Lin X-Windows"? Or even, "Linux/X-Windows"? Maybe "ex-Windows"? :-)
Quotes from "Running other OSes" thread:
? Real easy, and legal too. Again, note that with Wine, you can run a ton of Windows software _without_ a licensed copy of Windows.
:^)
>>But with VMWare you have to buy/own a Windows
>>license, which kind of nullifies the price
>>advantage.
>Use Wine [winehq.com] then.
I'm betting that's exactly what Lindows is. A friend and I were discussing Wine's license recently, specifically wrt the percieved lack of contributions from Transgaming's WineX (a DirectX centered fork from Wine -- http://www.transgaming.com/) back into the original codebase.
It appeared to us that Wine has a pretty open license much like X11's (http://winehq.com/source/LICENSE). The only real stipulation is the following:
15 The above copyright notice and this permission notice shall be included in
16 all copies or substantial portions of the Software.
So how tough would it be to wrap up Wine in a box with a $99 price tag (price from Lindows' FAQ page: http://www.lindows.com/lindows_products_faqs.php)
So to sum, take open sourced but not "RMS Free" (aka, GPL'd) code, name the result something Microsoft will have a problem with for the free press (as has been mentioned about a million times already), and *poof*, you've got the makings of a 90's style IPO.
It's all 0s and 1s. Or it's not.
Eighteen. Twelve.
Yes, you lost. We were just very generous and asked for nothing except the US give up its territorial claims in Canada.
--
E_NOSIG
Lindows is a Linux application. Are you confused?
-- SIGFPE
So I gotta ask... What would you suggest as a course of action if Microsoft announced a product called "Winux" that ran Linux software on Windows?
If you can't turn the tables and keep the same philosophy, then you have no philosophy.
Contrary to popular belief, coding is not all free blow-jobs and beer. Those things cost MONEY!
Eh, I never said this would be my last post, just that I wouldn't contribute any more. I can still troll :).
ok then your [sic] infringing on my copyright! Could you as [sic] me next time before STEALING my comments for your own?
you spoke:
This is my last post.
then later:
I never said this would be my last post
No you said that would be your last post.
then in the same post:
I can still troll
Ah, IHBT
-no broken link
you spoke:
This is my last post.
Oh yeah, I guess I lied. Well, I reserve the right to still troll.
ok then your [sic] infringing on my copyright! Could you as [sic] me next time before STEALING my comments for your own?
Man, this whole thing sounds like vaporware to me! Where are the downloads? Can I try it out now? What about the list of applications that work under Lindows?
Sheesh, maybe I'll just announce that I have a new OS that lets you use Linux and MacOS stuff. I'll call it OSEX. Yea, that's the ticket...
KangarooBox - We make IT simple!
No
ok then your [sic] infringing on my copyright! Could you as [sic] me next time before STEALING my comments for your own?
Despite all that, I find your writing to be extremely thoughtful. Just wish you'd stay away from Open/Free-bashing and your illogical desire to remind everyone that you interned at MSFT (yeah, YHBT. HAND.)
Catch you later...and when can we expect your next kuro5hin essay? Believe it or not, I always learn something new...and I'm being honest here...:-)
Stating on Slashdot that I like cheese since 1997.